WEBVTT

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Quick note before we begin. There
was a small glitch in our online recording

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that makes it sound like my audio
skips every so often. If you're old

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enough like me to remember records,
you know what I mean by skips.

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Not sure what it was or why
it happened, but it does resolve itself

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as we get deeper into the episode. Generally, my online recording platform is

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really reliable, so we'll cut them
a little slack this time. Thanks for

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you understanding. Now let's get to
it. I was doing a putting lesson

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with Bruce Ririck, so we do
a lot of putting lessons together. My

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students is just fantastic. And he
goes, Josh, what was that he

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said the other day? That was
just like so insightful. I'm like,

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God must have said something stifling with
Bruce. It's like so much of it

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is getting your setup correct, because
if you get your setup correct, a

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lot of good things happened during the
emotions. I said my quote was be

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careful in your setup and be care
free in your slip. Woo ooh yeah,

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I know you get an from you. I'm writing that one down,

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write it down. If you can
quote me on that one. I don't

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think I've had too many quotes through
the years that people will actually quote me.

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I think what happens is we kind
of get the opposite where people aren't

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really precise enough with their setups,
so now they're destined to failure, and

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now they have to be super careful
or restricted or compensate for a poor setup.

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Hi, this is Steve Han from
Honeyton Beach, California, and I

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play at Metal Arc Golf Club.
This is Golf Smarter number nine hundred and

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seventeen. Be careful in your setup
and be care free with your swing with

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Josh Xander. This is Golf Smarter, sharing stories, tips and insights from

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great golf minds to help you lower
your score and raise your golf IQ.

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Here's your host, Fred Green.
Welcome back to the Golf Smarter podcast.

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Josh, thanks for having me back. F It's always a pleasure, always

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a pleasure to talk to you.
We always have so much fun just talking

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random golf topics, which is the
way I love to do it. It's

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almost like we're walking down the fairway
together, just getting into random conversation about

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golf. So much fun. I
love it. It's kind of a random

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game anyway, So let's go random. Tell me how you online video lessons

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are going and how accustomed people are
getting to learning how to pay golf online

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with somebody. Yeah, it's definitely
happening. It's not the best way.

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I still love to see the person
in person, just because it's just it's

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more intimate. You really get to
know the person better and really can understand

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how they're going to learn best,
and you can try some things. But

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if you can't get to see me
in person, that online works great too.

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And I have an assessment process where
I understand how you're designed to swing

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the club and I can really keep
you on track. And so I have

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students all over the world who you
see me online, and it's a fun

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part of my job to meet people
that ordinarily get to meet. So it's

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great. It was one of the
things that I loved of going working in

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radio to working with podcasting is that
with radio you're always restricted by geography and

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time, and with podcasting you're not
restricted by either of those. There's a

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special geography, and I would think
for golf instruction it's kind of the same

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way in the sense that you get
to meet people that are not in your

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regional area. You know. I
guess with golf instruction, previously you had

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a ten mile radis maybe that people
would be willing to drop to take a

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lesson and hopefully somebody with all somebody
and they'd come in from twenty miles away.

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But now you can do it with
people all over the world. Yeah,

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now anytime. Yeah, it's really
it's pretty It's pretty cool when you

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think about it that way. It's
like the world is your you know,

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you have you have the opportunity to
are your knowledge with with anybody who's who's

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interested, and I'm in if you're
interested, let's go, let's go on

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this journey together, and let's have
some fun and let's learn on the way,

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enjoy the process and and uh and
get better. Yeah, which is

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what we're all trying to do.
It's what I'm still trying to do,

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not just as a teacher, but
as a player. I still I may

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be I may be deluting myself,
but I still think my best golf's in

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front of me. And I've played
some pretty good golf in the past.

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So I'm still trying to get better, and I still have epiphanies and I

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love sharing that information. And we're
always learning more and it's all it's all

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part of the fun. So the
more people who can join in I'm in

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that amazes me because I can you
to talk. The longer I play,

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more I learned, the more understanding
of nuance that I get in the game.

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What is your latest epiphany in your
game? Well this may seem a

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little trivial, but I was just
working. And I I actually have a

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coach I work. I work on
my game with Terry Rowlds, just a

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fantastic, you know, top one
hundred coach, and I'm always bugging him

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with questions and and h He's a
really deep thinker about things, and and

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he understands how I'm designed to swing. We both use Mike Adom system of

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assessments, so we know bio mechanically
how I'm designed and and I'll say,

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what do you think about this?
And and uh. And the other day

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I was on the lesson unlesson to
you in between lessons, and I just

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hit a few balls and I was
just trying to get a little bit more

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depth with my right shoulder, which
gets everything more around, allows me to

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deliver the hit a little bit more
from the inside and shallow me out a

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little bit, and he goes for
your for your style, which is somebody

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who covers the ball a little bit
more. I come down a little bit

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steeper. It's a perfect match.
So increase. Not only that, as

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I started to get a little more
depth, I started to look at my

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clubbeds. Be my clubbeds be starting
increase a little bit, which is always

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fun. Now at age fifty five
and I'm seeing some Yeah, so I

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think, of course, because now
you're making a bigger you're making a bigger

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coil. And I have a lot
of thoracic rotation, and it just wasn't

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using it. But the key that
unlocked it was the right shoulder back as

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opposed to just trying to turn my
core. I actually got the right shoulder

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to be as far behind me as
I could, and went from eighty nine

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miles an hour on a sex sign
to ninety three with that, which unlocked

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speed and an unlocked a better angle
club delivery into the golf ball. So

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little, just a little light bulb
went off, and you know, we'll

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see how long that feel lasts.
Feels are very fickle. I tell that

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to my students who might have a
feel that works, and you can run

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with it for a few weeks,
and then all of a sudden, that

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same queue doesn't necessarily produce the results
you want. We were talking about how

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golf is. Golf is a random
game and feels come and go, and

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reminds me of a story years ago
when I think it was Ian Poulter was

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struggling with the game, but he
said, I'm just going to be patient

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because I know one or two things
is going to come my way and I'm

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going to go on a run here. And sure enough he did, and

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because he was about to lose his
card, and he ended up playing really

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well for a few weeks. And
it's one of those things as a golfer

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you have to be patient because sometimes
those fields are going to really click in

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for you and other times you're going
to be in a little bit of a

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slump. And it's okay to be
in a slump. You have to weather

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those and that's a challenge mentally,
which is another obviously huge skill in this

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game, is to be able to
weather the downs and the ups. We

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just saw in the Ryder Cup.
You know, how does a player react

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to somebody else chipping in when they
deserve they thought they deserve to win the

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hole. I mean emotional roller coasters, and when it comes to fields,

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feels after a while you work on
them and they're not so fresh anymore.

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They don't quite work that one more, and you have to find the next

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field that gets the swing to look
and perform the way you want. And

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reminds me of my college golf coach, you know, as we're talking in

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the mid to late eighties, he
was one of the first ones to really

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get into using a lot of video, and he used to say, well,

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video doesn't lie. Well, Now
with all the all the tools we

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have, we can say, well, video actually does lie. If the

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camerangles off, we're not getting all
the great data we get from force plates

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and pressure mats and things like that. So video quote unquote lie. But

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in general video is a pretty good
tool. Still, most great teachers are

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out there with their with their iPhones
shooting video. And what he would say

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is like, what's the what's you
know, what's the field that's creating the

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right picture. And it might not
be the same from week to week or

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month to month, you know,
so who knows when the next little light

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bulb is going to go off for
me. Another light bulb that's kind of

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got off for me is really and
I've known this all along, but it's

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just the it's the transfer of energy
into the golf ball into the club head,

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and everybody, including me, likes
to hit it longer. So I

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used to do well. I still
do this program called the Junior Competition Clinic,

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and I would measure all my kids
in the program, measure their clubhead

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speed. When they started, and
we had a ten week program, I'd

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write their clubhead speed. Get my
track man, o't get their clubhead speed,

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and I write down, okay,
it's seventy five miles an hour.

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And then I put on a big
index card with a sharpie, seventy five

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miles an hour. I said,
okay, on week ten, we're going

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to retest you after you've done some
speed training. And then I would give

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a prize to the to the kid
who had the biggest increase in their clubhet

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speed. So motivated them to do
it. And then they of course would

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want the coach to hit balls too
and see what my clubhead speed was.

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And I would make some practice things
before I would get on the track man,

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and then they would be almost like
a baseball player with a big step

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first, like literally taking a ste
up my lead foot, lowering myself into

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the ground and exploding up. And
I would do that without even thinking.

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Is just like that's how my body
learned how to or that's all my body.

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That's how my body needed to move
in order for me to generate the

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most clubheit speat I could. So
I could basically show off in front of

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these kids and show them I still
I can still hit the ball three hundred

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yards right. And that was an
epiphany because you don't necessarily think about that

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when you're in a regular golf stance. But if you really wanted to hit

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if you just if you just took
a stick, like maybe one of those

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super speed sticks that has a little
weight at the end, or the stack

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system that has a weight at the
end. He said, Okay, all

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I'm trying to do here, I'm
not trying to hit the ball straight.

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I'm just trying to make this stick
go as fast as possible. What does

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your body do to do that?
Right? And when I was making my

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step and bracing into the ground,
what that bracing is is basically a breaking

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mechanism that allows the next segment.
In this case, the club had to

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whip passity rather than dragging the handle
pulling on the handle. It's like,

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no, how do you get that
club head to go the fastest. Well,

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it's kind of like cracking a whip
or snapping a towel. If I

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snap a towel, I have to
pull the lead end back for the trail

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end to go flying by. So
that is a breaking mechanism. Right.

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If you watch Rory McElroy, he
actually on his downswing has a stoppage or

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even a reversal of his hips.
That is an incredible breaking mechanism that lets

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that club head go flying by really
really fast. So it's one of those

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things where your body already knows how
to do it. Any athlete who's ever

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hit a ball, the tennis,
ball, at baseball, that's what they

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do. I've got videos. I'm
a huge baseball fan. I grew up

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in Venezuela. Baseball was the biggest
sport. I played little league baseball,

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and I love watching great hitters hit. And if you watch it's the same

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sequence. They step in with their
lead foot and then that braces and actually

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they push back off that lead foot
and then the bath head comes whipping around,

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and if you don't do it in
that sequence, you're just simply not

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going to be as powerful. So
in order to be powerful and efficient,

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you have to have a stopping or
bracing or breaking mechanism. And I don't

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know if enough people really work on
that, So I would say getting more

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into teaching that on a regular basis, especially since most people are looking for

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more power. I'm like, how
are we going to get as efficient as

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possible? So I'll take my impact
bag and I'll give my students an alignment

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stick and I'll say, Okay,
just make the loudest sound you can against

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that impact bag. Just just make
it like, whack it as hard as

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you can, and they'll start to
learn how to be efficient. Next thing,

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you know, they're airborne and impact
because they're using the ground so well.

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It's like, yeah, look at
that. You're looking like an athlete

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now, not when you're swinging the
club, but when you're actually trying to

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generate speed. And then, if
you think about it, this is one

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of my pet peeves and I'm going
down this. I know that we tend

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to talk about stuff and I just
go down these these rabbit holes. But

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you got me going, I'm I'm
gonna go at this right. But so,

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if you think about it, the
purest form of power is when you're

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trying to swing it as fast as
you can without worrying about where the ball

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goes. Right, you're just swinging. Like I just said, you out,

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just make the fastest swing you can, and then it's my job as

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an instructor to be able to organize
you in a way where when you do

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swing that powerfully or that explosively,
the ball goes where you want to go.

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Because most of the time we're restricting
ourselves in order to get the ball

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to go from point A to point
B. So, for example, if

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your grip is too strong for your
biomechanics, if you let it go and

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totally release everything, you're going to
hit a huge hook. So how many

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of those are you going to hit
before you start restricting your release? Right,

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So it's my job to get your
grip organized in a way where you

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can swing it as fast as you
can, as athletically as possible, and

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the ball goes where you want to
go. Now you're more willing to free

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it up, let it go,
trust it. All that stuff we hear

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all the great players say they do. You just watch these top players hit

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their drivers. Nobody's trying to finesse
it into the fairway. They're all exploding

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into these golf balls, extremely athletic
motions, but they hit it straight.

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And they really have to hit it
straight because at three point forty you can't

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hit it very far off line and
keep it in the fairway. You can

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if you hit it one forty.
You don't have to be very good at

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having a good club face at one
forty, But if you hit a three

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forty, you better have that club
face pretty square impact, So you better

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have your your grip, your posture, your ball position, all the little

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details organized in order for that ball
to go straight at that speed. Now,

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if you think about stability and club
hit, and this is another one

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my pet peeves when people say,
well, I got to slow down.

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I'm not a big fan of slowing
down because it's really hard to hit it

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farther if you're slowing down. Now, Smooth is good, syrupy, relaxed,

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all those kinds of words, but
not slow, because slow is just

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less speed. I think I've said
this on the podcast before, but when

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I went my first job in golf, instruction was with Hank Caney, and

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he said, Josh, if you
take a bad swing and slow it down,

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it's just a slow bad swing.
Let's fix it and then speed it

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up. Right. So, if
you think about stability, if you take

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a string and you hold and you
put a little weight at the end of

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the string and you start to spin
it, the faster you spin it,

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the more stable it is in its
orbit. Right, the slower you do

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it, the more wobbly it is. So we need that inertia. We

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need that momentum in order for that
clubheit to be stable. That club face

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in golf, we're trying to hit
a ball straight in baseball, and you're

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great if you hit it to everywhere
right, it's like we can't predict where

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to put the because he hits it
to all fields, so good for you.

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Well, in golf, we can't
hit it to all fields. We

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got to play our foul balls right. So we need a club face.

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It's very stable and oriented towards our
target. Reasonably does not be perfect,

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but reasonably. I remember when I
when I first got my track man got

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bols. Maybe it's fifteen, eighteen
years ago, whatever it is now,

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I was talking to Matt Frielich,
who's I think he's still involved with the

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company and was selling track man's I
said, I said, so, when

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you test touring pros, what do
their club faces look like relative to the

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targeted impact? I mean I was
looking at like, how, how what's

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the what's the dispersion? How left
or right? Can you have a club

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face and still play at the highest
level except most of them are within two

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degrees of zero with their club face
at impact, give or take. You

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know, it can be a little
open, little closed, but they're not

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like five degrees open or seven degrees
open or seven degrees because you can't just

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can't play golf that way. If
you have a club face that's that on

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stable because your grip is incorrect for
you, then you are in restriction mode.

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And if you're in restriction mode,
you are slow. And if you're

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slow, you don't get one of
the two things that everybody asks me when

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I get to the lesson to you, I want more speed, I want

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more distance, and I want more
accuracy. Well, you get the accuracy

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part, but you're not going to
get the distance part. But if you

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want both and to play to your
potential, we need both. Then we

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need to organize you, which is
why I assess everybody with Mike Adam's system

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of assessing golfers boto. Mechanically,
she takes a total of I think I

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do it if I do it really
efficiently, two minutes. If I do

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it inefficiently, it takes me three
minutes. I get carried away with some

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conversation or something. This is that
quick. Now I know exactly how you're

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supposed to do it. So even
with people who do my online stuff that

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I've never seen before, I get
them on video and I do the measurements

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with them. So I understand.
I don't want to take anybody down the

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wrong road. I want to know
what your body can do and how you

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deliver the club face consistently for your
body type. But yeah, so that's

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that's, uh, I guess that's
my uh. That's I don't know if

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that's an epiphany, but it's something
that I'm putting more into my teaching.

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I want I want my players to
be to reach their potential. And I

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work with everybody from you know,
five year olds to ninety year olds,

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and I want everybody to be as
efficient as possible. Okay, I'm gonna

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stop you. I'm sorry, I
need to stop it. There's a dock

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the door, and it's the sponsors
who would love to have something say here,

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So we're gonna be gotta pay a
bill, so we'll be back right

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after this. Must of times you
mentioned as fast as possible and as hard

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as you can. Yeah, I
are those the same thing. When you

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teach or can they be tea to
part, I would say it as fast

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as possible, but I'd like to
amend the as hard as you can,

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because when you're being very efficient,
you're not really trying. You're more allowing,

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You're more letting. I think one
of my videos I did recently was

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on the difference between trying and letting. You really want to allow these things

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to happen, which is when I
was talking about like just taking an alignment

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stick an alignment stick and hitting against
the impact bags and try to make a

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loud sound. It's amazing how relaxed
people are when they do it well and

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fast and powerfully, and how slow
they are when they're trying to do it

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grinding and trying to do it hard. So you find yourself on the practice

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team or the lesson te and you're
super grinding and the effort level super high.

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Something's not very efficient because most efficient
things are not hard, they're easy.

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You hear this in the in the
words coming out of great players.

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It was easy, it was fun, it was I was relaxed, you

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know, I was. It was
smooth. Right. You look at like

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Freddie Couple's and bj Singh and and
players like that, you just see it

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just looks effort less rather than effort
full. And I was doing a a

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a putting lesson with with Bruce Rarick, who's I don't know if you've if

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you've had them on your podcast,
if you had so, we we do

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a lot of putting lessons together my
students is just fantastic. And he goes,

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Josh, what was that you said
the other day that was just like

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so insightful. I'm like, oh, I must have said something stifully,

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And I said, because with Bruce, it's like so much of it is

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getting your setup correct, right,
because if you get your setup correct,

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a lot of good things happened during
the emotions. I said, I said,

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my quote was be careful in your
setup and be carefree in your swing.

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Right. Yeah, I know you'd
get an I'd get a new I'm

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writing that one down, Write it
down, write it down. You can

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quote me on that one. I
don't think I've had too many quotes through

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the years that people will actually quote
me, But that one, I think

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is a it's it's it might be
the title of this episode be careful in

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your set be care free in your
swing. Yeah, And I think the

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I think what happens is we kind
of get the opposite where people aren't really

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precise enough with their setups, so
now they're destined to failure, and now

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they have to be super careful or
restricted or compensate for a poor setup.

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So how nice would it be if
you could set up for a golf ball

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and know that more often than not
it's going to go where you want to

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go, and you can just let
it go. Then there's no herd,

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there's no try, there's just allow, there's let there's freedom, there's trust,

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all this stuff that we always want
more. We're playing our best golf.

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The Vision fifty four, Pia and
Lynn talk about this all the time.

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It's like, what's your what's what's
the best version of you? And

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they have you write down a piece
of paper. Chuck Cogan had me do

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this when I was when I was
working with him as a when I was

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a touring professional. He said,
take a piece of paper, put a

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line down the middle, and on
the left side, write down how you

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are when you play great. On
the right side, how you are when

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you don't play great. Well,
it's really it's the same for everybody.

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Like on the left side of a
piece of paper, when you're playing great,

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it's easy, it's fun, it's
smooth, it's soft, it's calm,

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it's quiet. On the other side, my brain's busy, I'm trying

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really hard, my grip pressure is
too tight, I'm analytical. Yeah,

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it's it's just it's distracted. It's
almost the same for everybody. I'm not.

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I mean, everybody's individual, and
so you can have different things going

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on. But I know that for
almost every golfer, if they knew they

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were going to be okay, they
would let go. But they're not sure

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they're okay. So if we can
give them that sense of safety by saying,

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hey, you know what, let's
take a little bit of time and

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make sure that club face is correct
and that grip is correct and your ball

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position is correct. I was yesterday
I was given up a cent and I

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was overhearing somebody working with one of
the one of the guys on the men's

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Stanford golf team, and and he
said he was working on the kids driver

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and the driver's going everywhere, and
he goes and he goes. If you

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change your setup every time it's different, how can you expect the thing to

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go in the same place every time? And these aren't things that it doesn't

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take a world class golfer to set
up well. Amend that it doesn't take

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a world class athlete to set up
well. It just takes an organized person.

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It might take a world class athlete
to swing it like Roy Now,

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okay, fair enough, he was
born with quite a bit of talent,

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more than most people who've ever swung
off club. But if he's not organized

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at that power level, his ball's
going everywhere. So if you go to

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a tour event and you're watching,
I get to go to the AT and

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T every year, so I actually
caddy for one of my students there and

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I love just hanging out on the
range watching all the players practice. Well,

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00:24:26.680 --> 00:24:30.039
there's so much stuff down on the
ground for their ball position, for

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their for their alignment, you know, for the you know, they're taking

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their time with their grip. They're
very organized, right. I would say

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that there being a really good player
is somebody who it starts with being really

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good at everything you do before you
hit the shot, from the technical to

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the mental to put yourself in the
proper mental state to execute, and put

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yourself in a proper technical position to
be able to execute. And if not,

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then the whole swing, you think
about it is a compensation for a

359
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poor setup, and it is disaster
because you're mentally in the wrong place,

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which is how too many people play
golf. Oh hi, okay, I'm

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00:25:14.119 --> 00:25:17.519
here. I just I think I
didn't know if you were taking your breath

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or in your thought. So okay, so let me ask you about the

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sound of a golf swing. Okay, what if you really pay attention,

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you can hear the swish of the
club going by going through its motion.

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Where in the swing should I hear
the strongest part of that sound. Should

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that be at the top of the
swing, from the bottom forward at the

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Does that make any sense? Yeah? Yeah, yeah it for me,

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it should happen just barely passed the
ball, just barely passed the ball.

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I wouldn't even mind saying it's at
the ball the maximum speed. Would love

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to have right around where the ball
is, so you'll hear the beginning of

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that sound and the fallow through of
it from the time you make contact through.

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Yeah, if you're doing it too
early, you're not going to deliver

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the most speed to the ball.
It's all we're gathering all this stuff,

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right. So somebody asked me the
other day what is the release? This

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is an interesting conversation. When I
ask somebody what the release is, it's

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amazing. I get this perplexed look. It's like this term we use all

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the time in golf, and when
I ask people say, well, what's

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your what's your definition of release?
It is like these kind of look at

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00:26:56.240 --> 00:26:59.920
me like I don't know. The
club face turns over, my arms roll.

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I'm like, what's the definition of
release? To let go? Right?

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00:27:06.599 --> 00:27:10.519
What are we doing? What are
we releasing? Well? In the

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00:27:10.559 --> 00:27:15.000
backswing, your trail arm folds,
you got some elbow in, you got

383
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some loading of the wrists, and
then we release both of those. So

384
00:27:18.359 --> 00:27:21.640
I just like to use a free
throw, like you know, we love

385
00:27:21.680 --> 00:27:23.160
the warriors here we live. Steph
Curry so I say, okay, show

386
00:27:23.200 --> 00:27:27.480
me your your imitation of Steph Curry's
three point shotters free throw, and they

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00:27:27.559 --> 00:27:32.319
bend their arm and they bend their
wrists and they let it go. They

388
00:27:32.480 --> 00:27:36.440
release both those angles. So I'd
say that's an arm release. Okay,

389
00:27:37.359 --> 00:27:41.359
all right, What are you doing
in your back coiling your body right and

390
00:27:41.400 --> 00:27:45.559
then that's going to get released.
What are you doing with the ground where

391
00:27:45.559 --> 00:27:49.279
you're pushing into the ground and then
you're exploding up, Well, you're releasing

392
00:27:49.359 --> 00:27:53.759
your legs too. If you watch
especially LPGA tour players or the long drive

393
00:27:55.400 --> 00:27:59.559
guys, their legs are straightening through
impact, right, so they have bend

394
00:27:59.559 --> 00:28:02.079
in their knees and then they extend
their knees and a lot of them are

395
00:28:02.079 --> 00:28:06.240
airborne at that point. So the
release, as far as I'm concerned,

396
00:28:06.319 --> 00:28:08.519
is the loading and unloading up all
those parts, and they all accumulate to

397
00:28:08.519 --> 00:28:11.880
give you this explosion at the bottom. So if you're trying to make that

398
00:28:12.119 --> 00:28:15.200
sound at the right place, you've
got to be able to release it at

399
00:28:15.200 --> 00:28:18.240
the right place, but you also
have to be able to load it.

400
00:28:19.119 --> 00:28:22.079
You have to load those joints.
So earlier, when we were talking about

401
00:28:22.279 --> 00:28:26.359
a bigger rotation for me. Well, if I want more rotation through the

402
00:28:26.359 --> 00:28:30.680
ball and faster rotation, well I
need to load it bigger. I can't

403
00:28:30.720 --> 00:28:33.319
hit a punchhot as far as I
can hit a full shot, Well why

404
00:28:33.359 --> 00:28:38.240
not. One of the reasons is
I haven't coiled as much. I use

405
00:28:38.279 --> 00:28:41.960
a piece of technology called sports Box, which is a really cool three D

406
00:28:42.720 --> 00:28:48.680
three D app. I recommend every
instructor use it because it actually quantifies.

407
00:28:48.720 --> 00:28:52.400
It's what we used to have to
do with all the electrodes on you and

408
00:28:52.559 --> 00:28:56.839
get into a lab. Now you
can do with video. It's incredible and

409
00:28:56.880 --> 00:29:00.880
it tells you the numbers. So
I had this one student who was turning

410
00:29:02.079 --> 00:29:06.119
about sixty sixty degrees with his torso, and he's a big, strong guy,

411
00:29:06.160 --> 00:29:07.960
can still hit about two sixty.
I'm like, man, this is

412
00:29:08.039 --> 00:29:15.160
like a teacher's dream. I'm going
to increase this person's torso rotation to eighty

413
00:29:15.200 --> 00:29:18.759
to ninety and he's gonna love me
because he's gonna get twenty five more yards.

414
00:29:18.759 --> 00:29:22.359
And I told him, you don't
get twenty five every week, That's

415
00:29:22.400 --> 00:29:27.440
not how it works. He started
turning bigger all of a sudden, whoe

416
00:29:27.599 --> 00:29:30.880
He's twenty twenty five yards longer,
and we can kind of quantify it,

417
00:29:30.880 --> 00:29:33.319
which is one of the cool things. So give a little plug to that

418
00:29:33.359 --> 00:29:37.480
app. I have no I'm not
involved with them on any ownership basis.

419
00:29:37.519 --> 00:29:44.119
I just love the product. So
how is his accuracy though? Oh well,

420
00:29:44.480 --> 00:29:45.440
well, what do you expect?
Right? I gave him the grip

421
00:29:45.440 --> 00:29:52.759
that works for him. His accuracy
is great. I don't know if I

422
00:29:52.759 --> 00:29:55.240
ever told you this story, so, but you're not going to right now.

423
00:29:55.240 --> 00:30:06.480
We're gonna be telling that story.
Will come back right after. Previously

424
00:30:06.559 --> 00:30:10.720
on Golf Smarter, Josh Sander was
saying, I don't think I've ever told

425
00:30:10.759 --> 00:30:12.960
you this story. I haven't told
you the story so when it was a

426
00:30:14.119 --> 00:30:17.599
really maybe I have. I mean, we've done a few of these now,

427
00:30:18.079 --> 00:30:21.279
we don't know how many of this
is for us. Now it's I

428
00:30:21.319 --> 00:30:25.559
have not looked. It's a lot
grown old and that's getting better every time

429
00:30:25.599 --> 00:30:27.519
too. I love it. So
one of the things I did this my

430
00:30:27.599 --> 00:30:32.119
thirtieth I think this is my thirtieth
season teaching. When I first started teaching,

431
00:30:32.160 --> 00:30:34.319
there really wasn't the infrastructure in place
to learn how to be a good

432
00:30:34.319 --> 00:30:37.920
coach. It's a lot better that
PGA has done a better job. There's

433
00:30:37.960 --> 00:30:41.839
better mentoring out there now, but
in my in my era, you sort

434
00:30:41.839 --> 00:30:45.480
of had to seek it out yourself. And one of the things we did

435
00:30:45.519 --> 00:30:51.880
have was a PGA Coaching and Teaching
Summit was happening at the time, and

436
00:30:52.119 --> 00:30:56.640
they were very good at taping everything, and so you could order the videos

437
00:30:56.680 --> 00:31:00.359
from all the presentations, and so
I'm like, Okay, if I'm going

438
00:31:00.400 --> 00:31:03.680
to learn how to really be the
best teacher I can be, I am

439
00:31:03.720 --> 00:31:07.480
going to go fly and sit on
sit on a golf bag behind a great

440
00:31:07.519 --> 00:31:11.319
teacher to watch. But I also
would like to have more information. So

441
00:31:11.400 --> 00:31:15.559
I ordered the entire set, like
you got a deal if you ordered the

442
00:31:15.680 --> 00:31:18.319
entire sets. A big investment for
me at the time, but it was

443
00:31:18.359 --> 00:31:22.519
a great one. And one of
the videos I saw was just a panel

444
00:31:22.559 --> 00:31:26.799
of like four or five of the
top teachers at the time, and they

445
00:31:26.799 --> 00:31:29.720
were asked a very simple question that
was, what's the most important part of

446
00:31:29.720 --> 00:31:33.400
the golf swing? And the first
person said, it's the grip, And

447
00:31:33.440 --> 00:31:37.480
I'm kind of rolling my eyes.
I'm like, come on, the grip,

448
00:31:37.480 --> 00:31:41.559
big deal, right, It's like, give me some torus. So

449
00:31:41.680 --> 00:31:44.720
rotation. Give me some you know, give me some power stuff, give

450
00:31:44.720 --> 00:31:47.160
me some fun stuff, you know, some sexier stuff. It's like.

451
00:31:47.599 --> 00:31:51.759
And the more I teach, the
more I realized that guy was right,

452
00:31:52.359 --> 00:31:56.559
because if that grip is wrong,
you can't hit it straight. And if

453
00:31:56.559 --> 00:31:59.759
you can't hit it straight, you're
going to restrict your power to try to

454
00:31:59.799 --> 00:32:01.480
hit straight right. We can't ignore
the fact that we're trying to hit the

455
00:32:01.480 --> 00:32:05.880
ball from point A to point B
right. You can have all the power

456
00:32:05.880 --> 00:32:07.640
in the world, and if you
can't direct it at your target, so

457
00:32:08.440 --> 00:32:12.200
understand. And when I say the
grip, and he didn't go into this.

458
00:32:12.240 --> 00:32:14.160
He just said, my answer is
the grip, And somebody else said

459
00:32:14.160 --> 00:32:17.759
my answer is, you know the
difference between hips and torso rotation. But

460
00:32:17.799 --> 00:32:20.799
whatever it was, I can't remember
at this point. The one that really

461
00:32:20.880 --> 00:32:23.880
hit me was the grip, just
because I thought it wasn't that important.

462
00:32:24.000 --> 00:32:27.960
And then here I am, thirty
years later saying that guy was right.

463
00:32:29.839 --> 00:32:34.400
The grip is not just the grip. It's the grip that's correct for you,

464
00:32:34.640 --> 00:32:37.839
which is different for everybody. Like
I, I'm a little old school.

465
00:32:37.880 --> 00:32:40.799
I have a sheet of paper where
I do my assessments, and I

466
00:32:40.880 --> 00:32:45.599
got these big binders that I carry
around me. I have to somehow put

467
00:32:45.599 --> 00:32:51.720
them online. But every sheet in
there is a different person. When I

468
00:32:51.759 --> 00:32:53.880
go through the assessments, it's very
rare that any of those people. There

469
00:32:53.880 --> 00:32:59.160
are two thick binders and hundreds of
sheets in there, and it's very unusual

470
00:32:59.200 --> 00:33:04.400
to see two people exactly the same
right, So that gives me the blueprint.

471
00:33:04.480 --> 00:33:06.960
I'm going to teach this person differently. They need different things, right.

472
00:33:07.000 --> 00:33:09.960
But going back to the grip,
the grip is not just how you're

473
00:33:10.079 --> 00:33:14.599
designed to put your hands on the
club, but also understanding what a square

474
00:33:14.640 --> 00:33:19.279
club face is. I can't tell
you how many people set up. They

475
00:33:19.359 --> 00:33:22.160
might have a grip that's quote unquote
correct for them, but the club face

476
00:33:22.200 --> 00:33:23.720
isn't is a little closer, it's
a little open. And by the way,

477
00:33:24.440 --> 00:33:29.160
very few people have an open club
face that address when I measure them.

478
00:33:29.160 --> 00:33:31.480
And I have a cool device that
David Adl made. It's called the

479
00:33:31.480 --> 00:33:35.599
grip Analyzer where you can put your
club in there and you can see where

480
00:33:35.640 --> 00:33:38.559
your club face really is relative to
the target. And I'll say it's five

481
00:33:38.599 --> 00:33:43.599
incus open, fiors close, whatever
it is rarely do I see somebody with

482
00:33:43.680 --> 00:33:49.400
a with an open face. Here's
a here's a tip for the manufacturers out

483
00:33:49.400 --> 00:33:53.119
there, or a thought for the
manufacturers. Design a club that makes it

484
00:33:53.160 --> 00:34:00.480
easy for people to have the club
face look square and be square because there

485
00:34:00.720 --> 00:34:05.359
their eyes tend to gravitate to the
top edge versus the leading edge, and

486
00:34:05.359 --> 00:34:08.400
they want to get the top quhere, and the face is then basically fifteen

487
00:34:08.440 --> 00:34:12.599
degrees closed. Well, what are
you gonna have to do to not hit

488
00:34:12.599 --> 00:34:15.360
a dead left? You're gonna have
to hold off right now, you're shorter,

489
00:34:15.639 --> 00:34:22.360
thank you very much. Right,
So the grip is a relationship between

490
00:34:22.400 --> 00:34:27.639
how you're designed to hold the club
and the proper club face. And I'm

491
00:34:27.639 --> 00:34:36.239
going to stop my thought there.
Why I'll just want to say that that

492
00:34:36.519 --> 00:34:42.519
and if that's wrong, you're making
golf super hard. I'm concerned about your

493
00:34:42.559 --> 00:34:45.320
notebooks. Do you back them up? Do you make copies of them?

494
00:34:45.679 --> 00:34:52.320
Do you If I lose a sheet, it takes me two minutes to get

495
00:34:52.320 --> 00:34:54.400
the information back with the person in
person, So that's not a big deal.

496
00:34:55.679 --> 00:35:00.559
But yeah, they're getting They're getting
so heavy that I'm like, I

497
00:35:00.599 --> 00:35:01.679
got to figure out a better way
to do this, and the people I

498
00:35:01.719 --> 00:35:05.239
do my online stuff with, they're
like, we're gonna give you that.

499
00:35:05.559 --> 00:35:10.480
Oh man, I know you're an
Apple person like I am. Ever since

500
00:35:12.079 --> 00:35:16.840
I was able to get an Apple
pencil on my iPad every interview, I

501
00:35:16.840 --> 00:35:22.559
mean, I had thirteen or fourteen
notebooks from all the interviews that I was

502
00:35:22.599 --> 00:35:24.840
doing. Well, now they're all
in the same app and I just take

503
00:35:24.920 --> 00:35:30.079
notes and I can use like highlighters
of different colors and pens and different stroke

504
00:35:30.159 --> 00:35:34.519
lengths, and I can make all
these notes and they're all in one place

505
00:35:34.559 --> 00:35:37.119
and it's backed up every night.
Oh my god, I got just thinking

506
00:35:37.159 --> 00:35:43.920
about your notebooks makes me cringe.
Yeah, okay, okay, well we'll

507
00:35:43.960 --> 00:35:52.880
talk about that offline. You mentioned
Terry Rolls earlier and I reacted. I

508
00:35:52.079 --> 00:35:57.559
heard so many different instructors talk about
Terry. I did do an interview with

509
00:35:57.679 --> 00:36:02.679
him earlierly on. He had an
in door uh set up teaching setup in

510
00:36:02.800 --> 00:36:07.360
San Francis and in financial district of
San Francisco, and I went and did

511
00:36:07.400 --> 00:36:13.400
it. Yeah. I did a
session with him and recorded an interview and

512
00:36:13.519 --> 00:36:16.039
have not been able to get him
to respond. I would love to have

513
00:36:16.159 --> 00:36:20.480
him back on the show. Because
he is such an incredible wealth of information,

514
00:36:21.239 --> 00:36:24.639
as are you. I'm not discounting
what you have to say because you

515
00:36:25.880 --> 00:36:30.639
blow my mind every time. He's
fantastic. He'd be you would do a

516
00:36:30.679 --> 00:36:35.880
great job on your show. He's
a he's an innovative thinker, he's a

517
00:36:35.920 --> 00:36:39.599
researcher, he's a great communicator,
he's he's a gem, and we're lucky

518
00:36:39.599 --> 00:36:46.880
to have him in our in our
business for sure. Absolutely absolutely. So

519
00:36:47.760 --> 00:36:53.280
now i'm talking, I'm thinking about
I'm just curious about your bag. How

520
00:36:53.559 --> 00:37:00.679
far do you hit a nine iron? Nine? So if you're you got

521
00:37:00.679 --> 00:37:04.920
a one thirty five shot, you're
going, I can just hit my nine

522
00:37:05.079 --> 00:37:07.480
R and I'll be okay with that. Yeah, and I might grip down

523
00:37:07.519 --> 00:37:12.239
like an eighth of an inch and
hit it. Just kind of account that's

524
00:37:12.239 --> 00:37:15.239
subtle. An eighth in the inach
will make that much difference on your yardage?

525
00:37:15.320 --> 00:37:16.400
Yeah, it makes it. It'll
make three or four yards out.

526
00:37:17.639 --> 00:37:21.639
Wow, And you can do that. I'm not like Phil where I know

527
00:37:21.760 --> 00:37:24.960
the exact calculations. You know.
He's got that great interview with David Ferdy

528
00:37:25.039 --> 00:37:30.079
that I have people people look at
from time to time where he says Hey,

529
00:37:30.159 --> 00:37:32.159
David, do you want to know
it really goes onto my head.

530
00:37:32.440 --> 00:37:37.960
Everybody should watch that. It's fascinating
what goes through his head. He talks

531
00:37:37.000 --> 00:37:42.559
about different kinds of grasses. He
talks about barometric pressure. He talks about

532
00:37:43.400 --> 00:37:46.000
having two stock swings that go to
different distances. If it's with the grain,

533
00:37:46.039 --> 00:37:50.559
if it's down the grain, if
it's teed up, versus when it's

534
00:37:50.760 --> 00:37:54.400
on the grass. Whether you know
it's early in the morning, it's it's

535
00:37:54.480 --> 00:37:58.440
later in the afternoon. He takes
in account all that stuff, and obviously

536
00:37:58.440 --> 00:38:04.639
that's happening for him at a split
second. And if I was playing professionally,

537
00:38:05.159 --> 00:38:12.000
I would definitely go out because distance
control. Here's another I know you

538
00:38:12.000 --> 00:38:21.960
always get me going it. Controlling
your distance is an underappreciated form of accuracy.

539
00:38:22.199 --> 00:38:25.559
Most people say, well, you
know, they're like, so,

540
00:38:25.880 --> 00:38:29.320
I'll tell you a story. So
I'm taking a lesson from one of my

541
00:38:29.360 --> 00:38:32.960
mentors, Jim Hardy, at one
of his seminars, and he and I'm

542
00:38:34.000 --> 00:38:37.559
hitting four irons and I and he
points out, okay, go hit it

543
00:38:37.599 --> 00:38:38.960
at that palm tree at the end
of the range. And I hit a

544
00:38:39.039 --> 00:38:43.320
solid four iron that's about fifteen yards
left, and I kind of roll my

545
00:38:43.400 --> 00:38:45.199
eyes like that man' gonna scrape over
another ball and goes, hang on,

546
00:38:45.320 --> 00:38:50.159
Josh, what was wrong with that
one? I said, well, it's

547
00:38:50.320 --> 00:38:53.639
left. It's it's like twelve to
fifteen yards left. He goes, okay,

548
00:38:53.719 --> 00:38:57.559
so you're forty feet left of the
hole. You hit it solidly,

549
00:38:57.639 --> 00:39:00.920
so you're pin high. Can you
get down in two from forty feet?

550
00:39:00.239 --> 00:39:02.559
Like? Of course, I cannot
say they're going to be an easy lag

551
00:39:02.639 --> 00:39:07.239
putter or just a simple chip and
run shot. He goes, what are

552
00:39:07.239 --> 00:39:12.800
you trying to do from two hundred
and ten yards? He said? I

553
00:39:12.840 --> 00:39:14.880
said, what do you mean?
He is, well, aren't you just

554
00:39:14.880 --> 00:39:21.119
trying to make a three? And
then I love showing this to my students.

555
00:39:21.159 --> 00:39:25.559
I get Scott Faucet's little you know
Scott Faucet, Yeah, from a

556
00:39:25.639 --> 00:39:29.880
decade golf. He's got these little
cards he hands out at all his seminars

557
00:39:29.880 --> 00:39:34.079
and it tells the scoring average from
every distance. And I don't know,

558
00:39:34.079 --> 00:39:37.199
two hundred and ten yards it's like
three point three or something to get into

559
00:39:37.199 --> 00:39:40.000
the hole for a touring pro.
Now I'm not a touring pro. So

560
00:39:40.079 --> 00:39:44.679
if I can make a three from
two hundred and ten yards, I'm gaining

561
00:39:44.760 --> 00:39:47.679
a third of a shot on the
best players on the planet. So why

562
00:39:47.880 --> 00:39:51.440
was Jim saying that to me?
Because he's like, dude, you just

563
00:39:51.480 --> 00:39:53.599
got to hit it solidly, so
you can hit it pin high. You

564
00:39:53.639 --> 00:39:58.880
don't have to be so precise with
your accuracy after all, trying to get

565
00:39:58.880 --> 00:40:01.440
a club face to point out I
think two hundred and ten yards away is

566
00:40:01.480 --> 00:40:07.159
really hard not to mention the fact
that there's atmospheric conditions too that might kick

567
00:40:07.199 --> 00:40:08.920
your ball offline. Right, even
if you're perfect, then there might be

568
00:40:09.039 --> 00:40:13.960
like a little piece of dirt that
the ball collected from, you know,

569
00:40:14.000 --> 00:40:16.119
when it bounced on the drive.
I mean, what you need to do

570
00:40:16.159 --> 00:40:19.960
is you need to hit the ball
solid. And Tiger's talking about this forever.

571
00:40:20.000 --> 00:40:22.440
It's like, I try to hit
the ball pin high to a reasonable

572
00:40:22.760 --> 00:40:25.880
place, and if you can make
a three from two hundred and ten yards,

573
00:40:25.920 --> 00:40:30.239
you're doing great. So that really
hit me hard because I'm like,

574
00:40:30.320 --> 00:40:31.840
huh, and by the way,
what are you trying to do when you

575
00:40:31.880 --> 00:40:35.239
have a seven iro in your hand. You're trying to make a three also,

576
00:40:36.280 --> 00:40:37.840
not just a four. I'm just
make a three with your seven ear.

577
00:40:37.880 --> 00:40:42.119
If you make a two, then
then that's a bonus. But when

578
00:40:42.199 --> 00:40:45.000
touring pros and obviously refer to them
a lot because because we get so much

579
00:40:45.039 --> 00:40:52.320
information from everything gets tracked on tour
right and again, Tiger talks about this

580
00:40:52.360 --> 00:40:54.719
a lot. What are you trying
to do. You're trying to burny the

581
00:40:54.760 --> 00:41:00.840
par fives. That's four opportunities right
there, because you're going to be around

582
00:41:00.880 --> 00:41:04.000
the green in two if you hit
two good shots, get those up and

583
00:41:04.039 --> 00:41:07.960
down. There's a sixty eight.
If you can average sixty eight, you're

584
00:41:08.000 --> 00:41:14.000
going to be the leading scoring average
on tour. Okay, you're gonna win

585
00:41:14.039 --> 00:41:16.639
the garden. If you average sixty
eight. You have four opportunities right there

586
00:41:16.719 --> 00:41:20.079
if you can par the rest of
them. Birdie the par fives. And

587
00:41:20.159 --> 00:41:22.760
I know that's not how golf goes, but you're gonna have some random shots

588
00:41:22.760 --> 00:41:25.079
that you're aiming at the middle of
the green and the seven arm of a

589
00:41:25.119 --> 00:41:29.360
sudden goes two feet from the hole, and you're gonna make a few birdies

590
00:41:29.360 --> 00:41:30.920
that way too, because you're gonna
hit some of your dispersion is gonna end

591
00:41:31.000 --> 00:41:35.159
up around the hole. As long
as you're smart about where you where you're

592
00:41:35.239 --> 00:41:38.079
aiming, and that's a that's a
Scott Faucet conversation. He's expert in matter.

593
00:41:38.239 --> 00:41:43.320
Mark Brody, Yeah yeah, put
on both money. Yeah great,

594
00:41:43.599 --> 00:41:46.679
so so. But the thing is
you've got to hit it solidly, because

595
00:41:46.679 --> 00:41:50.559
if I'm trying to hit one hundred
and fifty yard shot and I hit it

596
00:41:50.639 --> 00:41:53.880
one hundred and thirty dead online,
that's a twenty yard miss. If I'm

597
00:41:53.920 --> 00:41:58.440
trying to hit one hundred and fifty
yard shot and I hit it one hundred

598
00:41:58.480 --> 00:42:01.039
and fifty but I missed ten yards
left, that's only a ten yard air.

599
00:42:01.760 --> 00:42:06.119
That's much better than a twenty yard
era. I might rather be thirty

600
00:42:06.119 --> 00:42:09.960
feet than sixty feet right, So
online, hitting it dead straight not as

601
00:42:10.000 --> 00:42:14.199
important. We went reasonably straight,
and remember I'm going to help you with

602
00:42:14.239 --> 00:42:15.920
your grip to make sure it's going
to go reasonably straight. But hit it

603
00:42:16.039 --> 00:42:22.360
solid right, So that's what we're
That's what really really after. If you

604
00:42:22.400 --> 00:42:25.880
can make solid contact and have a
predictable flight, you can play some great

605
00:42:25.880 --> 00:42:30.000
golf. It's the mishits more than
the offline that really messes people up.

606
00:42:30.000 --> 00:42:34.079
By skull that I chunked it,
you know, it's like or I think

607
00:42:34.119 --> 00:42:37.280
my seven ron goes one fifty,
but it actually goes one thirty three when

608
00:42:37.280 --> 00:42:38.360
I hit it solidly. But I
didn't know that because I have too much

609
00:42:38.360 --> 00:42:43.800
ego to do that. You know, I can't tell you how many people

610
00:42:43.800 --> 00:42:46.760
think their seven ron goes one fifty. Oh so on track man, and

611
00:42:46.760 --> 00:42:51.400
they're actually going one thirty five.
Buddy. Sorry, we can work on

612
00:42:51.440 --> 00:42:53.440
your distance maybe to get it to
one fifty, but don't pull a seven

613
00:42:53.519 --> 00:42:57.559
arn at one fifty. You're gonna
end up in the front bunker. Yeah,

614
00:42:57.840 --> 00:43:00.639
even get it online. It's in
the front, Yes it is.

615
00:43:00.800 --> 00:43:05.960
I just I love when you name
drop and I can go, oh,

616
00:43:05.960 --> 00:43:07.519
they've been on the show. Oh, they've been on the show. Makes

617
00:43:07.559 --> 00:43:12.840
me feel either that I'm doing something
right or that we know the same people.

618
00:43:13.320 --> 00:43:15.719
And the reason I bring that up
because we're going to hear what's happening

619
00:43:15.760 --> 00:43:22.840
this week on Golf Smarter Mulligans.
And I know that Jim Hardy's episode is

620
00:43:22.880 --> 00:43:24.719
coming up soon and I'm not sure
if it's this week or not, so

621
00:43:24.840 --> 00:43:29.320
let's take a listen and we'll be
back after this. Well, Jim Hardy's

622
00:43:29.360 --> 00:43:32.719
episode will be published in about a
month, but this week on golf Smarter

623
00:43:32.840 --> 00:43:37.400
Mulligans. It's the first of a
two part conversation with a columnist from The

624
00:43:37.440 --> 00:43:44.360
Wall Street Journal on a piece he
wrote called Golf's Biggest Delusions Nine things that

625
00:43:44.440 --> 00:43:49.639
people say about golf that isn't true. But a big part of this episode

626
00:43:49.880 --> 00:43:54.039
follows this line of questioning, are
there specific golfers that you enjoy covering?

627
00:43:54.400 --> 00:43:59.679
You? Know? Some of my
favorite golfers are Phil Mickelson, Steve Stricker,

628
00:44:00.199 --> 00:44:05.320
Jim Furick, Rory McElroy. Because
Still is the guy that will give

629
00:44:05.320 --> 00:44:08.159
you an interesting, responsive answer to
questions, unlike a lot of them.

630
00:44:08.360 --> 00:44:13.320
He thinks of himself as an intellect
and a wit, and he is.

631
00:44:13.400 --> 00:44:16.119
He's not afraid to try to say
something new or thoughtful. He's thinking it

632
00:44:16.159 --> 00:44:19.920
over. Some people say he's a
little full of himself, and maybe he

633
00:44:20.039 --> 00:44:22.559
is, but I like him.
He's famous for standing there for hours giving

634
00:44:22.599 --> 00:44:27.840
autographs. Generally a very personable guy. He sometimes we'll talk about economics and

635
00:44:27.840 --> 00:44:31.079
deliver ultimatums on what should be done, as if his opinion is more valuable

636
00:44:31.119 --> 00:44:35.599
than everybody else. Is a little
bit Tiger is the opposite of that.

637
00:44:35.719 --> 00:44:40.719
Tiger is actually pretty forthcoming on explaining
his golf game and technique, and he

638
00:44:40.760 --> 00:44:45.199
actually reveals a lot of stuff in
that respect, but you get him off

639
00:44:45.199 --> 00:44:49.920
subject and he's just a chess grand
master about five moves ahead of you in

640
00:44:50.039 --> 00:44:53.480
not revealing things. That's episode two
hundred and thirty three of Golf Smarter Mulligans,

641
00:44:53.559 --> 00:44:59.679
the first of two episodes featuring golf
columnist who covered the four majors each

642
00:44:59.719 --> 00:45:04.400
year for The Wall Street Journal,
John Paul Newport, being featured on our

643
00:45:04.480 --> 00:45:10.119
podcast Offspring Golf Smarter Mulligans being released
this Friday morning. Originally published in March

644
00:45:10.159 --> 00:45:15.280
of twenty twelve. So if becoming
a better smarter golfer only once per week

645
00:45:15.440 --> 00:45:20.880
isn't enough, then don't miss the
chance to get two episodes every week with

646
00:45:21.079 --> 00:45:25.039
Golf Smarter, the golf podcast that
proudly focuses on how to improve your game

647
00:45:25.559 --> 00:45:31.440
and Golf Smarter Mulligans, episodes from
our archives that revisit the best of Golf

648
00:45:31.480 --> 00:45:43.159
Smarter. They're both available for free
from wherever you're listening right now. How

649
00:45:43.239 --> 00:45:47.639
much of those Phil Mickelson details he
goes through that you talked about a moment

650
00:45:47.679 --> 00:45:54.440
ago are relevant to recreational golfers now? I play. I try to play

651
00:45:54.480 --> 00:46:00.079
twice a week, and that's a
lot of golf for most people. I

652
00:46:00.079 --> 00:46:02.400
mean, if they get out once
a week, they're pretty happy. It's

653
00:46:02.480 --> 00:46:07.119
once a month, twice a month
maybe, you know, and you know,

654
00:46:07.480 --> 00:46:12.440
with some practice, hopefully that goes
with that. But a lot of

655
00:46:12.480 --> 00:46:19.400
those details that you talked about that
Phil thinks about with every shot, I

656
00:46:19.400 --> 00:46:22.000
wouldn't know what to do with and
how much do I need to know?

657
00:46:22.679 --> 00:46:29.519
I'm talking about playing at the highest
level. Of course, the difference between

658
00:46:30.280 --> 00:46:32.960
you know, gaining a third of
a stroke here and a third stroke there

659
00:46:34.039 --> 00:46:37.840
might be the difference between several hundred
thousand dollars in your in your pocket at

660
00:46:37.840 --> 00:46:39.400
the end of the week with the
amount of money that they're playing for these

661
00:46:39.440 --> 00:46:47.119
days, the amount of money he's
gambling for each round. Stick to my

662
00:46:47.800 --> 00:46:55.559
lane, which is more about just
I would say that you don't have to

663
00:46:55.559 --> 00:47:00.639
be that specific, but let's just
say, like I love to do playing

664
00:47:00.719 --> 00:47:05.519
lesson and it's amazing how many strokes
I can save somebody when I'm actually on

665
00:47:05.559 --> 00:47:09.239
the golf course with them. So
assessing a loe, for example, a

666
00:47:09.400 --> 00:47:14.039
ball that's sitting a little bit up
in the rough and the grass is growing

667
00:47:14.079 --> 00:47:19.599
with you. Alert, this ball
is going to go far down green,

668
00:47:19.960 --> 00:47:24.159
out of the rough, super super
long distance into the green out of the

669
00:47:24.239 --> 00:47:30.039
rough. Ball just does not go
anywhere. So I tell us a lot

670
00:47:30.039 --> 00:47:36.079
of people, especially the kids who
are trying to play high level junior college

671
00:47:36.079 --> 00:47:38.360
golf, professional golf, over the
green is the worst place to be.

672
00:47:39.880 --> 00:47:44.519
You airmail the green. You never
hear an announcer say, oh, airmail

673
00:47:44.559 --> 00:47:51.000
the green. He'll be fine.
Oh boy, it's in somebody's backyard.

674
00:47:51.039 --> 00:47:53.719
It's hit a cart path, it's
in a flower bed. At best,

675
00:47:53.960 --> 00:48:00.760
you're hitting a short game shot down
a hill where the green's growing, going

676
00:48:00.800 --> 00:48:07.280
away from you. Right. So
I'll share a story. I was playing

677
00:48:07.360 --> 00:48:13.039
in a member pro at Olympic Club, and I don't really play in tournaments

678
00:48:13.039 --> 00:48:15.360
anymore, but one of my students
like, hey, come and play with

679
00:48:15.400 --> 00:48:17.119
this with me. I sure.
So we get on the second the second

680
00:48:17.480 --> 00:48:21.519
not the second hole Olympic, but
our second hop is was a shotgun and

681
00:48:21.519 --> 00:48:22.880
I hit the ball just barely into
the right rough. I've got like one

682
00:48:22.960 --> 00:48:28.280
hundred and seventy yards. That's a
that's a comfortable seven rons for me.

683
00:48:29.079 --> 00:48:32.480
And the ball was sitting up and
it was down green and I took my

684
00:48:32.559 --> 00:48:36.280
seven iron and instead of hitting one
hundred and seventy, I hit about two

685
00:48:36.320 --> 00:48:44.079
o five. The ball took off
on me into a into some chunk behind

686
00:48:44.119 --> 00:48:47.119
the green. That my next shot
was. I was on my knees with

687
00:48:47.280 --> 00:48:53.239
a five wood with a shaft literally
resting on the ground, the entire shaft,

688
00:48:53.280 --> 00:48:55.800
trying to scrape it out from under
there. That was my next shot.

689
00:48:58.639 --> 00:49:01.880
Needless to say, I made a
set him and he was just it

690
00:49:01.960 --> 00:49:05.199
was the best ball. So he
was on the fringe and two and he

691
00:49:05.320 --> 00:49:07.559
four putted because he was cavalier about
his little tapping. So we ended up

692
00:49:07.760 --> 00:49:12.320
two over par after two holes.
Right away, You're you're not You're already

693
00:49:12.360 --> 00:49:15.559
way too far behind to you know, you can't make a double as your

694
00:49:15.559 --> 00:49:20.320
best ball anyway, just because of
lack of playing time. Because I'm like

695
00:49:20.400 --> 00:49:22.719
a lot of the people you're saying, play once a month or twice a

696
00:49:22.719 --> 00:49:24.880
month, and I just didn't remember
that one little detail. Now, if

697
00:49:24.880 --> 00:49:28.920
I was a touring probably to look
at them and said, okay, I'm

698
00:49:28.960 --> 00:49:30.079
okay. If I leave it short
of the green, I'm going to take

699
00:49:30.119 --> 00:49:34.320
like a nine iron here, and
if I end up in the front bunker

700
00:49:34.440 --> 00:49:36.760
or chipping from the front of the
green. I'm a good enough short game

701
00:49:36.760 --> 00:49:37.840
player. I could get that down
to make a four, but the worst

702
00:49:37.880 --> 00:49:42.199
thing I can do is airmail this
green, right, So you really have

703
00:49:42.280 --> 00:49:45.360
to be careful about those those kinds
of things. So it's you don't have

704
00:49:45.360 --> 00:49:51.000
to be as detail this, but
you have to have some some ability to

705
00:49:51.000 --> 00:49:53.719
to understand what's in front of you, because it's not about just making good

706
00:49:53.760 --> 00:49:58.159
swings. It's about making good decisions, and a lot of those decisions are

707
00:49:58.159 --> 00:50:01.079
based on, Hey, what's the
situationuation here? Where should I aim this

708
00:50:01.199 --> 00:50:06.000
ball? What is the la going
to do to my ball? It's eight

709
00:50:06.159 --> 00:50:08.559
like we're in a heat wave right
now. It's ninety degrees at Stanford today.

710
00:50:08.599 --> 00:50:13.119
The ball goes farther than when it's
sixty degrees. There's just no doubt

711
00:50:13.159 --> 00:50:16.039
about it. You can't expect the
ball to carry as far when it's cold.

712
00:50:16.119 --> 00:50:20.760
And I remember watching the President's Cup
when it was at a harding park

713
00:50:20.800 --> 00:50:23.880
and they were on the I guess
it was the second hole during the tournament.

714
00:50:23.920 --> 00:50:27.079
Was actually the eleventh hold the little
par three. It's one hundred and

715
00:50:27.159 --> 00:50:29.719
sixty yards and some of these guys
were hitting seven irons. These are tour

716
00:50:29.760 --> 00:50:32.760
players. Well, it was soupy, foggy, dense. The ball wasn't

717
00:50:32.800 --> 00:50:36.920
going anywhere, right, That's usually
a wedge for those guys. They were

718
00:50:36.960 --> 00:50:39.800
hitting seven irons how much? Oh, finally they're hitting numbers that regular people

719
00:50:39.880 --> 00:50:45.719
hit us because they're in San Francisco. Ye weather, right, So you've

720
00:50:45.760 --> 00:50:47.679
got it. I mean, if
you don't have that as part of your

721
00:50:47.719 --> 00:50:51.599
skill set, then yeah, you're
going to be your ten, fifteen to

722
00:50:51.599 --> 00:50:53.800
twenty handicapper, even if you have
the skills of being a single digit golfer,

723
00:50:53.800 --> 00:50:57.679
because you just you don't know the
game. You know how to swing

724
00:50:57.719 --> 00:51:00.880
the club, but you don't really
know how to play golf. There was

725
00:51:00.920 --> 00:51:05.800
this one student of mind who came
to UH. I had Mike Adams and

726
00:51:05.840 --> 00:51:09.679
Terry Rolls come in and do a
clinic with me. And this kid who's

727
00:51:09.679 --> 00:51:15.039
now playing college golf, just explosive
player, and uh he was hitting the

728
00:51:15.079 --> 00:51:17.880
ball grade and with a little bit
of help, he was hitting it fantastic,

729
00:51:17.960 --> 00:51:21.840
and Mike just kind of pulled me
aside. He goes, all you

730
00:51:21.840 --> 00:51:22.679
got to do with this guy is
just teach him how to play the game.

731
00:51:23.239 --> 00:51:25.519
He knows how to hit it all
right, just like you need to

732
00:51:25.519 --> 00:51:29.159
get out there on the golf course. And and so we did a playing

733
00:51:29.239 --> 00:51:32.840
lesson and and I'm understanding, what
are you thinking? You? What do

734
00:51:32.840 --> 00:51:36.159
you what do you what do you
try to do with this shot? What

735
00:51:36.320 --> 00:51:37.960
you know? That kind of stuff
is what's going to take him to a

736
00:51:38.039 --> 00:51:43.400
level where he'll play high level Division
one golf and maybe professional golf. It's

737
00:51:43.400 --> 00:51:45.159
not hitting any better. He hits
at three point thirty and on a with

738
00:51:45.239 --> 00:51:50.559
a two yard fade. I mean, kid kills it any shot he wants.

739
00:51:50.639 --> 00:51:52.760
He's he's very creative. So he's
got all the talent in the world,

740
00:51:52.760 --> 00:51:55.360
but he's got to learn how to
apply it. And so that's the

741
00:51:55.400 --> 00:52:00.159
player that really needs to have a
conversation with Phil Nicholson or with me to

742
00:52:00.159 --> 00:52:02.719
start to understand how to play the
game, rather than just like, Okay,

743
00:52:02.760 --> 00:52:07.000
I'm just going to work on my
You know, it's interesting because you

744
00:52:07.079 --> 00:52:10.119
said about the decisions that are made. Too many decisions are made based on

745
00:52:12.199 --> 00:52:17.039
wherever, you know, all all
the various elements involved. It looks to

746
00:52:17.119 --> 00:52:24.239
me in playing recreational golf that most
decisions are made based on the numbers that

747
00:52:24.280 --> 00:52:28.840
come off your rangefinder. Everyone pulls
out their rangefinder and me they stand next

748
00:52:28.840 --> 00:52:30.519
to the ball. They pull out
the rangefinder, they look for the pin,

749
00:52:30.559 --> 00:52:32.960
they get a number, they go
grab a club. They don't look

750
00:52:34.000 --> 00:52:38.840
at where the ball is sitting.
They don't look at which way the wind.

751
00:52:38.960 --> 00:52:43.960
Well, yeah, okay, the
wind will be something though. Oh

752
00:52:44.039 --> 00:52:45.840
let me just toss a little grass
here and see what that means. Does

753
00:52:45.960 --> 00:52:49.159
do you really know what that means? I don't think you really know what

754
00:52:49.199 --> 00:52:53.440
that means if it's blowing hard or
not. Are we doing to say,

755
00:52:53.440 --> 00:52:59.599
again, how react with How is
the ball going to react when it lands?

756
00:53:00.119 --> 00:53:04.559
You may want at one eight because
this because the greens are really firm

757
00:53:04.599 --> 00:53:07.519
and you're coming out of the rough
with no spin. Right. It's just

758
00:53:07.719 --> 00:53:13.400
those kind of subtleties. That's that's
playing the game. I had two golf

759
00:53:13.440 --> 00:53:15.840
coaches in college, and one liked
us to practice a lot and the other

760
00:53:15.880 --> 00:53:20.960
guy liked us to play a lot. And there comes a point where when

761
00:53:20.960 --> 00:53:22.840
you have the skills, it's a
matter of like how do I apply the

762
00:53:22.880 --> 00:53:27.440
skills? So if you if you're
a if you're a reasonable, reasonable ball

763
00:53:27.440 --> 00:53:29.840
striker, and you have a couple
hours on your hand, Go play nine

764
00:53:29.880 --> 00:53:35.000
holes instead of just going to the
range on a mat that's aligning you to

765
00:53:35.079 --> 00:53:38.239
the same place and beaten seven irons
and five irons and drivers for two hours.

766
00:53:39.039 --> 00:53:43.960
Go learn how to play the game. Go throw balls if you can.

767
00:53:44.559 --> 00:53:45.000
You know, you got to keep
up the pace of play. But

768
00:53:45.119 --> 00:53:50.800
go throw balls in random places and
an experiment. What do I have to

769
00:53:50.800 --> 00:53:53.800
do? Obviously I can't when I'm
doing playing lessons. I'm like, you

770
00:53:53.880 --> 00:53:59.519
now have the benefit of my forty
seven years of playing, in thirty years

771
00:53:59.559 --> 00:54:04.760
of teaching experience to look at a
shot and help you go through my mental

772
00:54:04.840 --> 00:54:08.920
processes of what needs to happen,
assessing the lie's the what's the win,

773
00:54:09.239 --> 00:54:13.000
how's it going to react? All
those things? Is the grain growing with

774
00:54:13.039 --> 00:54:14.840
you? Is it? Is it
away from you? What you know?

775
00:54:14.920 --> 00:54:17.840
All the little subtleties that you'll hear
in that Michelson conversation that are going to

776
00:54:17.880 --> 00:54:21.320
help you make a good decision.
So now you have a chance, because

777
00:54:21.519 --> 00:54:23.400
one of the worst things is you
hit a great shot and you have a

778
00:54:23.440 --> 00:54:29.199
poor result. That's kind of a
bummer. I just hit that, I

779
00:54:29.280 --> 00:54:34.199
hit that seven are an Olympic beautifully
man that was flushed two hundred and five.

780
00:54:34.880 --> 00:54:37.840
Look at me, big muscles,
two hundred and five. Welcome to

781
00:54:37.840 --> 00:54:42.039
making a seven on a part four
early on and your partner's like, oh,

782
00:54:42.079 --> 00:54:50.519
I brought this, probably made a
truth. I'm gonna we'll talk about

783
00:54:50.519 --> 00:54:52.519
this afterwards, but I want to
get the link to that Michelson interview.

784
00:54:52.639 --> 00:54:57.360
Will put it in the show notes
and on the blog post for today's episode.

785
00:54:57.719 --> 00:55:01.039
Also there, I would like to
include some amazing offers that you'd like

786
00:55:01.119 --> 00:55:06.079
to make to the Golf Smarter community. Yeah. So I've got a couple

787
00:55:06.079 --> 00:55:10.440
of different offers. One is I've
got a private video library that you can

788
00:55:10.480 --> 00:55:15.719
subscribe to and there's a fifty percent
offer on that for yearly subscription. And

789
00:55:15.760 --> 00:55:19.679
then also if you want to join
my online program, there's one hundred dollars

790
00:55:19.679 --> 00:55:22.400
off my online program where I can
shepherd you through your golf and we can

791
00:55:22.440 --> 00:55:25.719
go on this journey together. I
can assess you, make sure that you're

792
00:55:27.079 --> 00:55:29.880
holding the club, you're in the
right posture, doing all the things that

793
00:55:30.119 --> 00:55:34.639
are the way you're designed to play
your best golf. So we have that

794
00:55:34.719 --> 00:55:38.519
assessment, and then I basically coach
you along the way and keep you on

795
00:55:38.559 --> 00:55:43.000
the proper pass. So there's an
offer there as well, So looking forward

796
00:55:43.039 --> 00:55:46.320
to it. I want to throw
some flowers your way. I always really

797
00:55:46.480 --> 00:55:54.280
enjoy our conversations. You're a great
question asker, interviewer, and I know

798
00:55:54.320 --> 00:55:57.920
we talked about some things that we
were going to talk about on the show

799
00:55:58.000 --> 00:56:00.400
and we never got to any of
those. It means it means you just

800
00:56:00.440 --> 00:56:05.320
get to do this again, hopefully
sooner rather than later. But you have

801
00:56:05.440 --> 00:56:07.480
great guests on your show. I
really I'm I'm a fan. I'm a

802
00:56:07.519 --> 00:56:12.559
little well, thank you, and
I enjoy I enjoy just hanging out and

803
00:56:12.599 --> 00:56:15.760
talking to you. Oh it's all
too kind. I really appreciate it because

804
00:56:15.760 --> 00:56:20.000
I really love spending the time with
you too. So there's going to be

805
00:56:20.039 --> 00:56:22.199
two links that I'm going to put
in the show notes and in the blog

806
00:56:22.239 --> 00:56:29.559
posts at golf smarter dot com.
One is for let's see, it's the

807
00:56:29.800 --> 00:56:36.920
video consultation and one hundred dollars Yeah, yep, one hundred dollars off the

808
00:56:36.920 --> 00:56:39.800
program if you decide you want to
join and go on the journey with me

809
00:56:40.199 --> 00:56:45.000
or the other one or and you
can sign up and just have access to

810
00:56:45.039 --> 00:56:49.760
my video library, which talks about
all different parts of the game, So

811
00:56:50.599 --> 00:56:53.599
constructural library. Yeah, okay,
and that's is there a cost to that

812
00:56:53.639 --> 00:56:59.320
part? Yeah, so it's it's
one hundred dollars subscription per year, and

813
00:56:59.360 --> 00:57:04.480
there's a fifty percent off if you
use the Golf Smarter coupon perfect. Thank

814
00:57:04.519 --> 00:57:08.199
you, Josh, thank you for
all this information, and maybe someday we'll

815
00:57:08.480 --> 00:57:13.960
actually talk about Hopefully someday soon we'll
talk about all the things that we discussed

816
00:57:14.000 --> 00:57:17.119
before we started recording. There you
go, there's so much to talk about

817
00:57:19.880 --> 00:57:24.440
and so little time. Well,
I found the YouTube video of flahertyan Mickelson

818
00:57:24.679 --> 00:57:30.000
that discusses everything that goes on through
Phil's mind with each shot. The link

819
00:57:30.119 --> 00:57:35.599
to that and to Josh's generous offers
are in today's show notes and in the

820
00:57:35.639 --> 00:57:40.079
blog post when you visit today's episode
at golfsmorter dot com. It's time to

821
00:57:40.079 --> 00:57:45.920
thank this week's newest Golf Ambassador,
Steve Hahn from Huntington Beach, California,

822
00:57:45.440 --> 00:57:50.400
one of my favorite beaches ever.
Because I spent so much time there is

823
00:57:50.440 --> 00:57:53.599
a little kid anyway. For his
efforts, Steve chose to receive the glove

824
00:57:53.639 --> 00:58:00.760
and Glove Storage Compartment from our friends
at redroostergolf dot com. The unique subscription

825
00:58:00.920 --> 00:58:06.519
service with a tremendous amount of styles
and sizes to fit everyone's needs. And

826
00:58:06.639 --> 00:58:10.440
now they have much more than just
glove, so please check them out at

827
00:58:10.480 --> 00:58:16.440
redroostergolf dot com. All Steve did
to receive this gift was take less than

828
00:58:16.599 --> 00:58:22.280
one minute to call our toll free
Golf Smarter listener line and record this week's

829
00:58:22.360 --> 00:58:27.559
show open. You're invited to be
one of our ambassadors too, and when

830
00:58:27.559 --> 00:58:30.360
you do, you'll have a choice
of a free gift. Check out today's

831
00:58:30.400 --> 00:58:35.360
show notes to see more and the
links about each gift you have to choose

832
00:58:35.360 --> 00:58:38.920
from, whether it's Tony Manzoni's video, a box of Odin X one balls

833
00:58:38.920 --> 00:58:44.960
with a Golf Smarter logo, or
the Glove and Glove Storage compartment from redroostergolf

834
00:58:45.039 --> 00:58:49.199
dot com. So when you write
to me about anything, don't be surprised

835
00:58:49.199 --> 00:58:53.400
when I write back with your answer
and a pitch to do a future episode

836
00:58:53.440 --> 00:58:59.960
opening. To see and hear the
highlights of our interviews, please follow up

837
00:59:00.119 --> 00:59:04.480
us at Golf Smarter on YouTube,
TikTok, Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn,

838
00:59:04.599 --> 00:59:07.599
Twitter, x, whatever you want
to call it. For our ongoing posts

839
00:59:07.599 --> 00:59:13.760
of videos and articles, we're putting
up new content five times each week.

840
00:59:14.199 --> 00:59:17.599
If you have any questions, comments, or suggestions for upcoming episodes, just

841
00:59:17.599 --> 00:59:22.760
write to Golf Smarter Podcast at gmail
dot com or click on the Heyfred button

842
00:59:23.000 --> 00:59:29.199
when you visit Golfsmarter dot com