WEBVTT

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Welcome to mid Rats with foul from
Commander Salamander, an Eagle one from Eagle

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Speak at Seer Shore your home for
a discussion of national security issues and all

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things maritime, and welcome aboard everybody. I am the aforementioned sal and congratulations

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on joining us for an end of
January free for all. That's right,

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Mark and I. We do not
have any guests today. It's just the

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two of us. We're going to
be looking not just the waterfront, but

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maybe a few things assure those things
that are breaking above the background noise and

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the national security arena, and as
we like to do with our free for

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all formats, if you're with us
Live, if you go ahead and go

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to the bottom of the show page, that's where you will find the chat

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room. We've already got some folks
there standing by, and if you have

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some observations you'd like to share during
the course of the show, or if

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there's a question you would like to
ask the two of us, that's a

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great place to put it in there
and we'll jump right on it when it

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comes in. And as always,
if you're with Us Live, you look

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at the top of the show page, there is the studio number. If

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you're feeling brave and want to give
us a call, you can call us

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there too. But besides that,
good afternoon, my illustrious co host.

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How you doing today. I'm doing
well, sal Thank you for asking.

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Well, it's we were doing a
little bit of a pre show here that

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and starting the show caught up with
us. But that's life. That's a

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live show for for the what it's
worth. But we were talking about,

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you know, some of the things
to talk about today. It's like,

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you know, where do you Where
do you start? There's so much going

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on, and we've we've had some
dedicated shows on various topics. But I

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guess one thing to start with if
you look, if you look at the

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four areas that are absorbing most of
the the digital print, so to speak,

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in this arena, it's the ongoing, going on year three almost of

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the Russia Ukrainian War, Europe's response
to that. We have the Hamas Israel

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conflict that is going on since the
seventh of October, and what started as

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part of that. But I think
it's fair to say is evolving, if

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it's not already into a separate challenge. That's the war on shipping emanating from

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Iran and her proxies. And of
course there's everything going on in westpac with

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Taiwan that continues to evolve. And
I guess for those that are joining us

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live, they've probably been soaking in
the news of the day and the latest

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news of the day. I'll just
use a reference point Christina Long, who

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does a really good job making sure
that the numbers are right. She put

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out today. I think it's right
because the dd spokesman said there were more

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than one hundred and sixty one.
The way Christina's numbers are looking at is

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US forces mostly in Syria and Iraq, but also as we'll talk about here

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in a second, and other places. Since the hamas Is Real war kicked

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off at the end of the first
week in October, there have been one

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hundred and seventy attacks on Americans,
twenty five injured, one critically injured.

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There's been quite a few that they
haven't given this number that has suffered from

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TVI, which when you're being attacked
by missiles, those are big explosions that'll

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knock your that'll knock your bel for
a bit. And today at a place

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called Tower twenty two, which is
in the northeast corner of Jordan, near

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where Iraq, Syria and Jordan come
together as a place called Tower twenty two

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that I believe is at least partially
staffed by California National Guardsmen. But we

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had three people killed in an attack
in the last twenty four hours and a

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lot of people and I think some
are our prior guests. We just mentioned

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the fact that it was just a
matter of time that whether you're ashore or

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at our ships at sea, that
when the enemy launches a bunch of stuff

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at your regardless of how dumb or
primitive it is, you've got to be

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right every time. They only need
to be right once. And it looks

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like they finally hit what they've been
naming at for a while. Yeah,

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And I mean, i don't want
anybody to die foolishly. And I'm not

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sure what these guys were doing where
they are, but you know, I

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think somebody on on x formerly Twitter, I think you have to say that,

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right, you have to say formerly
Twitter now all the time I think

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pointed out that the one of the
problems with fighting off these missile attacks that

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have been taking place in the Red
Sea is that and just exactly what you

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said. What our guests last week
said, is it. You know,

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you're if you're playing defense, you
have to be right all the time.

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Just what you said. You have
to be right all the time. And

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if if the Hooties succeed on hitting
the US Navy ship with one of their

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whatever, however primitive or however sophisticated
weapons they have, that's a major,

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major victory for them. And we
just have to be really conscious of the

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fact that our guys are engaging in
in war, whether we call it war

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or escorting UH tankers and other vessels
through the Red Sea. This is this

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is the real thing now. And
and I don't know how long the US

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can sit by and watch people being
shot at, wounded, injured, killed,

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and expending vast sums of money really
every missile we shoot U and the

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Brits are doing it too, UH
to defend merchant shipping without some kind of

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declaration that we're going to go after
the people behind all this. And we

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all know who those people are.
They're they're the Iranians, And you know,

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are we going to do anything about
it? Are we going to continue

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to pretend like like this is just
the hohoth. He's doing this all by

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themselves. And obviously whatever we've done
right now, it's h there's no deterring

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here, there's just punishing. Uh
there. How you get from punishment to

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deterrent I don't know. But if
you don't want them to keep shooting others,

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you have to degrade their capability,
which is finding out where their weapons

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are swored, and you have to
stop new weapons from getting to them.

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And nobody's used the b word blockade
to actually do a blockade. And there

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have been a few people who have
been talking about a new approach to Iran

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and things that now that we have
Americans dead, that they're going to have

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to do. I don't know.
Secretary of State Lincoln and the National Security

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of Buyers are Sullivan. They've kind
of made their career back to the Obama

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days on finding a way to get
whatever that secret sauce they're trying to get

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out of the Iranians to do that. Could the President administration change to a

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little more robust structure against at least
Iranian's proxies, Absolutely it can't. I

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just don't know whether the Blinking and
Sullivant team will are the right people to

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make that pivot. I'm sure there
are people in the Biden administration who would

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like to make that pivot, but
they're not the ones making the decisions right

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now. I guess if directed to, they would, But I don't see

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how you get through that wall of
the people that they've put in positions that

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really really believe that a rough pro
small, as the fancy people say,

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with Iran as the best way to
prevent them from getting nuclear weapons and to

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create other positive effects down the road. I don't agree with them, but

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it's a position. I have a
feeling, at least from the outside,

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they're going to get additional pressure to
tighten things down. And yes, the

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three individuals killed were not killed by
the Huthi, but they're all Iranian proxies.

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One thing that I think we need
to be careful about, and at

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least under the president ministration. I
don't think this is going to be an

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option, but you never know is
going feet dry over Iran. That's that's

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not a step I think anybody wants
to take. I don't think we're there

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yet. We got lots of proxies
to go through, and there are things

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that we can do before getting too
much feet dry in Iran, like the

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one thing that I saw today,
and I'm sure there's there's some good intel

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also that has the truth on that
is. I'd encourage the listeners if they're

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not aware of it, Glenn,
google Shaheed, bog Harry, that's b

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A g h e R. Why
there also had another ship Shaihed something else

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I can't pronounce, and I can't
read my writing, so I don't want

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to spell it out to you,
but bog Harry, we'll get you there.

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What they've done is actually something that
we've talked about us doing, but

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we haven't converted a couple of their
merchant ships into a smooth version, a

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modernized version of what the Atlantic Conveyor
would have done. It's a helicopter and

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a drone carrier that is actually not
part of the Iranian Navy properst Iranian Iranian

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Revolutionary Guard Core Navy. Before once
we get through clawing through some of their

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proxies, I think those platforms that
again a smart intel guy could probably tell

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us, and I think it's probably
true may have been involved in, if

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not intel gathering for the Huthis,
but maybe some of those mysterious drone strikes

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on ships off of Omon between Oman
and Pakistan might have originated from there.

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Those would the interesting things to have
them no longer be seaworthy. I guess

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it'd be applied way of saying it. Yeah, you know, I don't

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really want anybody to go to war
with or Rant. I just want a

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Ran to stop doing what they're doing. And if you know, if sometimes

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you don't want to do what you
have to do, and I think that

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this is becoming that point. We
cannot allow this type of behavior. I

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mean, it's bad enough that this
is revealing what we all know anyway,

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that ships that are fairly close to
shore are going to be subject to can

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be subject to missile attacks, and
they don't have to be sophisticated weapons systems

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to go after those ships. We
saw it with the Israelis when they somebody

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fired what appairs to the Chinese c
A oh two missile look that there that

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their ship had kind of missed,
uh, the the Israeli ship and hammered

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a merchant ship further out. I
think did some damage to the to the

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Israeli ship. But uh, you
know, this is this is something that

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we keep talking about and and we
can't. We can't bring you know,

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we have to be really careful about
bringing our carriers too close to the shore.

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They make great targets. We can't. We have to be We are

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betting that the the d d G
s we have can continue to fend off

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the the attacks. And you know, the I'm always reminded of the of

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the of the the scene in in
uh Red Storm Rising, where you know,

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after you've fend fended off a whole
bunch of of attacks and the next

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wave comes and you're you've already gone
Winchester. So, uh, it's a

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problem we've got. You know,
we have limited uh magazine capacity on those

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on the ships that are out there, and if you know, that is

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a concern. I guess we can
keep rotating ships in and out, but

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we better have a better way of
a good way of re arming those things.

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And I'm not sure can't be done
at sea. So I know they're

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trying to work on that, but
these are challenges that we need to face

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up to and deal with. So
far, we've been lucky and very good.

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I got to commend the crews of
all the ships involved that they've been

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able to do such a good job
fighting, fighting, the fighting down these

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drones and missiles and ballistic missiles and
all that. And you know, the

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the air crews from the carrier that
have been engaging in the modern the day's

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version of the scud hunt, trying
to find the launchers and and equipment to

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the Hoothies. They've apparently taken out
quite a few of them. But you

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know, I'm wondering how fast the
Hoothies can recycle their equipment. How much

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stuff did a rant actually give these
cloths? Yeah, how many doll does

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it take to replenish it. That's
where that some type of blockade against the

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Hooti coast. I don't know how
much they're able to smuggle in overland,

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but as any logistics guy can tell
you, when you've got to move heavy

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things in volume, it's got to
be done by sea. You can only

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do so much by ashore unless you're
using rails. And this is something heck,

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you know, we're going into our
fourteenth year here. We've been talking

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about this for over a decade,
but this is another data point that popped

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into my mind while you were speaking
a couple of minutes ago. Small conflicts

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give you big hints about what you
need to focus on for the next war.

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And if you look at modern warship
design, it's was there a threat

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from the air, Yeah, there
was, besides planning for the you know

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REDGI size backfire attacks in the in
the North Atlantic, which is what the

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good old Tom Kak at the F
four before was supposed to bleed them out

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before they came in. And then
we got our ages ships to do that.

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But one looking at consistent volume of
fire that would become an inbound And

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so if we are reaching a time
we're even fourth tier competitors, our hostile

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forces can flood the air with things. How does that? How does that

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make us think about not just the
designs of our ships, but when you

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look at our and again I'm going
to channel John Conrad here, who's going

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to defend all of our merchant vessels
that we're going to be relying on going

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going west? And you know,
take a snapshot of what the Houthis and

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the Iranians are doing right now and
put five more years of R and D

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and production and modifications on top of
that, and what are you looking at

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in twenty twenty nine that could be
very very interesting, Like what you're looking

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at in nineteen thirty six versus what
you're looking at in nineteen forty one,

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because we're not the only ones that
are looking at it. Anybody who was

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looking at trying to make access to
the seas either unaffordable or ineffective or inefficient.

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The flying lawnmowers still need to be
shot down, and if they're mixed

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in with higher capable assets as well, it really can run through what ships

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do you have out the escort there? And that's what people with fleet design

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need to do, not just in
the US but in other nations, is

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look at the ships you're presently building
and ask yourself, is this really designed

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for what we think is coming that
we need to modify it, maybe do

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another flight, or was this all
based upon theory that didn't quite plan out

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like we thought. Yeah, it's
a good question, I think. You

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know, you go back in history
and you look at the effect the first

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torpedo boats had on ship design.
You know, you begin to get these

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huge battleships and stuff with those with
those torpedo blisters and all that kind of

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stuff. You know, do do
you change your design to meet the flying

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lawnmower? You change to meet the
heavier threat. You know, I don't

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know. I think you know,
we're relying on technology, to modern technology

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to beat weapons that are pretty basically
pretty simple and apparently, uh, you

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know, we're good at it,
but there is always that risk that we're

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not. You know, all it
takes is one and you know it would

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be somebody pointed out in the chat
room. You know, the C and

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N effect is is in place we
lost We've already lost. We lose three

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guys in the in the in Jordan, and we lose two seals trying to

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board a dow uh which was apparently
transporting weapons to the hoof. He's so

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you know, this is not this
is not this is war. I mean,

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I don't you know, you can
call it whatever they want, but

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this is this is war. I
mean, somebody's somebody's interfering with your ability

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to do whatever is you want to
do. That that is that becomes more

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than just a nuisance that that's that's
that's what we used to call war.

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I don't know, I don't know
what goes in the minds of the administration

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when they're dealing with this. You
know, are were going to send another

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strong letter to the to the Iranians, they don't do this, or well,

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well, this time we really need
it. I mean, I remember

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a number of red lines we were
drawing the in the sand. If if

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X happened, you know, we
were going to really really do something,

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and nothing ever panned out in those
cases. I do think it's kind of

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refreshing, and you and I are
old enough that we can remember such a

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time. I think what's been interesting
is what's been lacking in any of the

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conversation about what's going on here is
the United Nations, Uh, the United

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The only thing you're really reading about
the United States right now is how they're

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the schools that they had in Gaza
were just terrorist training camp. So if

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that that part of the post war
dream, I mean, it died a

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long time ago. I saw it
die in Afghanistan when it was just ridiculous.

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But I think that it's not only
dead, it's been it's been dug

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up, gibbeted, stabbed again,
and they're being left out there. So

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they're they're do we return back to
the era that the nobody's gonna look at

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the U n to to do anything
except maybe after the fact, individual nations

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and their friends are just going to
have to step forward and do something.

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And going back to the ship design
bit for a second. I got to

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give him credit and Trent Tellenko,
who I joined with John Conrad on one

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of John's spaces over on X.
But he had me thinking this weekend,

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which is always appreciated, is he
made a point about again fourth rate Yemen

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power has everybody thinking about what was
once literally science fiction conjecture anti ship ballistic

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missiles. And we can assume that
what they're using is you know, Mod

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zero generation zero. I mean,
these are not advanced anti ship ballistic missiles,

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but the stream bags that we threw
off the front of a cruiser within

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a couple of decades was the Battle
of Way, So these things can advance

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pretty fast. And he made a
good point that if you have your major

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your major ships, which for most
of our allies is a frigate. But

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let's just go ahead and draw a
line. You know, your seven thousand

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ton frigate north, if it doesn't
have anti ship ballistic missile capability, you

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know, can it really defend itself? Can you know? If you have

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a purpose built like it's an issuing
quote. Maybe I'll bring up later about

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the the Australia's Hunter class frigates come
on board. We're supposed to be anti

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submarine warfare frigates. But when you
are a small navy, you only have

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a few units. They've got to
be ready to dance at the party they

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get invited to. They're not able
to pick the dj and the dance floor.

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They're not big enough to do that. So if you have one of

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those ships seven thousand tons or higher, are you really building it for what

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you're being hinted is the threat that
you're probably going to face, or one

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of the streats you're going to face, or are you trying to just design

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a ship for what best fits the
vignette personality at the moment decided was their

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preferred war they would like to fight. Had me thinking a lot about that.

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Miniaturization is great. The modern version
of AEGIS and other radars are pretty

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darn impressive. Mark forty one vls, Mark fifty seven vls. The advances

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we've made in the standard missiles recently
official pressler allies is impressive. But is

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it impressive amount to be able to
answer that in the affirmative here in five

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to ten years? I don't know, But if you've got the ballistic missile,

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which technology that's not the expensive part
and the fancy part, that's the

264
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seeker head. If you get the
right technology and the right programming and the

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right seeker heads, you can make
a lot of old dumb missiles be very,

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very capable and precision targets. That
I think, uh is one of

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those again little hints that we're getting
right now to think about that is either

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fascinating or terrifying, depend upon which
end of the rocket you're sitting on.

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Yeah. Boy, something you said
just just reminded me of of again historical

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lesson, and then that thought flashed
and disappeared. I'll come back to it

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probably, Yeah, I think I
think the concern is that that if and

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I think you and I have discussed
this at some point. You know,

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if you have stealth ships, stealthy
ships, the way to defeat those is

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you don't have to use radar.
You put your like the Chinese, you

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put your militia out watching, watching
the water, and the militia phones in

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it says hey we got a I
got a US D d G sitting out

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here, you know, and and
gives the coordinates. That's how you beat

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stealth and and that's how you also
don't give away the position of your of

279
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your of your radars and all that
stuff that we would normally try and take

280
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out, uh, so we could
do whatever we want to do. The

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the the issue I have and one
and we've noticed. I know that sand

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de Cardliano is has noted there's a
Iranian merchant d quote ship that is drifted

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along in or out of the Red
Sea and uh seems to be providing information

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to the hooties about what possible targets
are. You know, then that is

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the poor man's uh sophisticated satellite system
and everything else. You know, you

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just you throw a boat out there, and you put some people in it

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and and they call it in and
I just you know, we we sometimes

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get too carried away with technology and
not think in practical terms of you know,

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how do we defeat an enemy who
is who is sophisticated enough to have

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the missiles, but not too proud
to put two guys in a rowboat doing

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their spotting for them? Yeah,
I think you're you're exactly right. And

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how do you how do you counter
that? You can't jam that, especially

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with all the different connectivity going hither
and yon uh and war knows anybody that's

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done tracking up and down the Red
Sea. You can't stop everyone to look

295
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at everything. And you also have
the cold hard fact a lot of our

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listeners here have have done a Suez
transit. As you're doing a Suez Change

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transit, you're looking up and waving
at people in their in their apartments as

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you as you go down towards the
Great Bitter Lake. One of those people

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just has to be paid aid.
You know about whatever it is a thousand

300
00:26:03.480 --> 00:26:11.240
Egyptian pounds a month to report every
ship that goes by. It's not doesn't

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have to be a sophisticated intel gathering
when you really have such a relatively small

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body of water, it's really not
that big, but it is. And

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a lot of folks have made this
point. When you look at the impact

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on the global economy, you look
at the expenditure of not not too limited,

305
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but fairly limited number of precision weapons
that you know, you're likely said

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if you don't you can laugh at
everybody laughs at the flying lawnmower until it

307
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impacts your bridge and explodes. Then
it's not funny anymore. Everyone has to

308
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be taken down. It's uh,
it's amazing the the cost to affects ratio

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that the Huthis and the Iranians are
able to execute here on a global scale.

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You got to tip your hat to
them. They given the deck of

311
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cards that they have and the resources
they have, they're doing a damn good

312
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job. We could learn a few
things from them, I think, yeah.

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And one of those things is to
identify, and which they've done successfully,

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identify where your weak links are and
your opponent. And if the weak

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link is the the need to have
have open seas. Uh, you know,

316
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the the Iranians, the Chinese,
they're all you know, they're both

317
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probably the North Koreans for that.
They're all interested in shutting down open seas.

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And what does that do to the
world economy? They don't really care.

319
00:27:52.720 --> 00:27:56.000
I mean, if you're the North
Koreans, you've got no world economy

320
00:27:56.000 --> 00:28:00.000
anyway. And the Iranians, you
know, they're You're sitting on oil,

321
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so they think they'll always have something
going. But you know, it's all

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the chuck points. We've how many
times over the last fourteen years, and

323
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we discussed choke points. So I
think it's probably it's probably at least four

324
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or five times a year. So
you know, it's that's the key,

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and I think anybody who gets a
chance, and nowadays you can just google

326
00:28:21.920 --> 00:28:25.960
it. Look at the old maps
of the British Empire at its height.

327
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It wasn't created by accident. And
whether you're talking about you know, Yemen

328
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used to be a British protectorate,
UAE. The various emirates there had agreements

329
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with the Brits, Singapore, Sri
Lanka, South Africa, I mean even

330
00:28:45.480 --> 00:28:52.480
British Guiana controlling the Great Circle route
coming out of Brazil to Europe, Trinidad

331
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and Tobago, Canada for that matter. Uh, it's you look at look

332
00:28:57.759 --> 00:29:03.920
at wherever the British Empire used to
be, and then overlap where the Chinese

333
00:29:04.000 --> 00:29:10.079
Belton Road is also looking at going
to Uh. There's overlap there for a

334
00:29:10.119 --> 00:29:14.039
reason. And one of them is
what we've been talking about now is access

335
00:29:14.160 --> 00:29:19.960
into and out of the Red Sea
and also the Persian Gulf, which we

336
00:29:21.000 --> 00:29:25.720
also saw last week. Something that
we mentioned with one of our guests here

337
00:29:25.759 --> 00:29:27.440
a few weeks ago that everybody's looking
for, you know, where are the

338
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Indians? And I forget the name
of the ship when I stopped talking here.

339
00:29:33.519 --> 00:29:40.160
I'll look over at sal Moncagliano's TL
and dig up the name. But

340
00:29:40.440 --> 00:29:48.039
there was a strike on a tanker
that caught fire, and my memory served

341
00:29:48.079 --> 00:29:56.200
me right. It was the French
and the Indians that were helping out.

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00:29:56.279 --> 00:30:00.279
I think the US may have helped
out too, But the Indians actually put

343
00:30:00.319 --> 00:30:06.000
one of their firefighting teams aboard the
ship, and it wasn't an Indian flagship.

344
00:30:06.079 --> 00:30:08.720
That wasn't an Indian I think the
crew was all Indian and Bangladeshi.

345
00:30:08.720 --> 00:30:14.279
If memberships the right, so the
Indians have have shown the flag, so

346
00:30:14.400 --> 00:30:18.359
to speak. They're not They're not
shooting down drones or anything. But when

347
00:30:18.400 --> 00:30:22.960
you consider how oh, no,
if hesitant is the right word, perhaps

348
00:30:22.000 --> 00:30:26.039
prudent is a better word. I'll
let an Indian expert explain it to me.

349
00:30:26.960 --> 00:30:30.279
But they they haven't been above the
fold and news in the area.

350
00:30:30.799 --> 00:30:36.599
But good on the Indian Navy.
Uh. They belong on the white hat

351
00:30:36.680 --> 00:30:40.279
team as opposed to the gray hat
team that they seem to be more comfortable

352
00:30:40.279 --> 00:30:45.640
playing in. Yeah, the USS
Carney was involved in helping to put that

353
00:30:45.720 --> 00:30:55.640
fire out. The French frigate alsas
and the Indian navy frigate visa kaf but

354
00:31:00.920 --> 00:31:04.559
they speak English and idiot, but
they name their ships and whatever the other

355
00:31:04.599 --> 00:31:10.839
languages. Yeah, so uh yeah, I mean that's that's the way it's

356
00:31:10.880 --> 00:31:15.039
supposed to work. Cooperation at sea, we lend a hand. He noticed

357
00:31:15.079 --> 00:31:19.480
that the somebody has been trying to
reavbilitate the Chinese recently and saying that they

358
00:31:21.400 --> 00:31:25.400
h and I guess the US has
asked them to participate in the Red Sea

359
00:31:26.559 --> 00:31:27.720
escorting. And then other people went, well, you know, the Chinese

360
00:31:27.759 --> 00:31:32.599
are losing lots of money too because
they're they're having the people, they're losing

361
00:31:32.640 --> 00:31:37.240
business, they're losing the revenue from
the transportation to Europe. Blah blah blah.

362
00:31:37.279 --> 00:31:38.880
I don't you know, I don't
see them really helping out a whole

363
00:31:38.880 --> 00:31:45.839
lot now. They're they're they're free
riding to a certain extent, and I

364
00:31:45.839 --> 00:31:51.559
think they are also fairly risk adverse. They've, for instance, they're they've

365
00:31:51.559 --> 00:31:56.279
been involved in counter piracy for a
very long time off of the Horn of

366
00:31:56.319 --> 00:32:00.880
Africa. And you know, Claude
bear Bay has done a great job documenting

367
00:32:00.960 --> 00:32:06.000
the number of flotillas they sit out
there and come back. They don't do

368
00:32:06.079 --> 00:32:10.519
a lot, though they're mostly using
this as an opportunity. For instance,

369
00:32:10.519 --> 00:32:16.079
they're building a carrier capable pier in
Djibouti. They are able to collect a

370
00:32:16.119 --> 00:32:22.519
lot of intel on how we and
other navies operate, including the Japanese and

371
00:32:22.559 --> 00:32:27.039
I think the Indians have been there. I think the Brazilians might actually be

372
00:32:27.079 --> 00:32:32.279
commanding it right now. So they're
able to steal ideas, see how other

373
00:32:32.319 --> 00:32:37.200
people operate, gather intel, but
they're not willing to step forward and actually

374
00:32:37.319 --> 00:32:45.400
do something that other nations are at
least partially doing. It's like the National

375
00:32:45.440 --> 00:32:52.279
Caveats List for the People's Republic of
China is just no. They're just they're

376
00:32:52.319 --> 00:32:55.160
here doing their own thing for their
own reasons. I guess in some ways

377
00:32:55.279 --> 00:33:01.720
you can respect that. For anybody
to call them a responsible player on the

378
00:33:01.720 --> 00:33:10.119
international scene, this just underlies the
fact that they're not. Yeah, they've

379
00:33:10.119 --> 00:33:15.559
invested heavily in this and I'm here
somewhere. They've invested heavily, and they've

380
00:33:15.599 --> 00:33:19.880
invested heavily in choke points. You
know, they they have a different way

381
00:33:19.920 --> 00:33:22.319
of doing things than than we think
about. So they've got a base in

382
00:33:22.359 --> 00:33:28.079
Djibouti, they've got stuff they've developed
in the Suez Canal area, in the

383
00:33:28.079 --> 00:33:34.039
Red Sea investments with Egypt. They
you know, they have a big interest

384
00:33:34.079 --> 00:33:38.039
in the Panama Canal. They've got
you know, they they they are taking

385
00:33:38.079 --> 00:33:40.759
care and they've you know, they're
looking at the animal islands. They're trying

386
00:33:40.759 --> 00:33:45.000
to figure out how to get eliminate
their choke points as much as they can.

387
00:33:45.480 --> 00:33:49.680
So you know, the the Chinese
and the Indians are at at the

388
00:33:49.759 --> 00:33:53.839
loggerheads and some of the animal islands. You know, they think they count

389
00:33:54.200 --> 00:34:02.319
that Singapore will somehow not participate in
trying to shut off the stray of Malacca

390
00:34:02.319 --> 00:34:07.440
if if if the if they if
the Chinese do something, But I'm not

391
00:34:07.480 --> 00:34:12.519
sure how they know that. You
know, they they they really want Taiwan

392
00:34:13.000 --> 00:34:15.480
not I mean for a variety reasons, but not the least of which is

393
00:34:15.519 --> 00:34:20.840
that opens up the first island chain
for them. They don't have to try

394
00:34:20.880 --> 00:34:25.800
and go through straits they're contested,
and you know, their their situation is

395
00:34:25.800 --> 00:34:30.199
such that they are looking out and
probably the same thing that the Brits did,

396
00:34:30.239 --> 00:34:32.679
as you point out, I mean
when the Brits had aid and they

397
00:34:32.719 --> 00:34:38.199
also had a partial ownership of the
Suez Canal through some various companies until Nasser

398
00:34:38.360 --> 00:34:44.039
nationalized the Suez Canal back in nineteen
fifty six. I think it was you

399
00:34:44.079 --> 00:34:49.280
know, they they they can understand
how things work, and and yet we're

400
00:34:49.320 --> 00:34:57.199
fumbling along. Am I am totally
astonished at the Biden administration's decision not to

401
00:34:57.239 --> 00:35:04.840
develop the LNG port that would allow
us to provide Europe with natural gas products,

402
00:35:04.920 --> 00:35:09.000
that would that would wean them from
the the need to play with the

403
00:35:09.079 --> 00:35:15.360
Russians. And I just I'm was
just stunned by that. I when I

404
00:35:15.400 --> 00:35:20.239
first read that, I was like, oh, somebody's misinterpreted something. Somebody

405
00:35:20.440 --> 00:35:23.199
this is, you know, a
bad headline writer. And after I read

406
00:35:23.199 --> 00:35:28.599
a couple of things that just he
only gets mad about things so often.

407
00:35:28.760 --> 00:35:32.480
I from not just an energy point
of view, but as you as you

408
00:35:32.599 --> 00:35:40.199
mentioned they are obliquely from a strategic
point of view. It makes absolutely zero

409
00:35:42.000 --> 00:35:45.719
sense. The Europeans are going to
have to get that natural gas from somebody.

410
00:35:47.039 --> 00:35:52.280
So do we want to have expanded
commercial ties with our European allies or

411
00:35:52.280 --> 00:35:59.639
do we want them once again to
get in bed with parties that may not

412
00:35:59.719 --> 00:36:06.880
share our view And money gets you
influenced people return your phone calls, and

413
00:36:07.559 --> 00:36:15.039
your ability to keep your citizens warm
at winter time at an affordable price gets

414
00:36:15.039 --> 00:36:20.199
you even more attention. So who
who does that? Who does that send

415
00:36:20.239 --> 00:36:27.360
power to cutter Russia? I don't
I don't see any any nice, friendly

416
00:36:27.440 --> 00:36:32.719
people there that are willing to do
that. And uh, it's the wrong

417
00:36:32.800 --> 00:36:40.840
People are making decisions for the wrong
reasons as a rack and stack their priorities.

418
00:36:42.559 --> 00:36:46.000
That's just not the priority. I
you know, elections have consequences.

419
00:36:46.039 --> 00:36:57.960
That's international energy, economic slash diplomacy
slash national security interlacing. That's just not

420
00:36:58.000 --> 00:37:01.559
one of the priorities. Yeah,
well it's one of the it's the priority,

421
00:37:01.679 --> 00:37:06.719
but it's a different priority that makes
that makes sense in the in the

422
00:37:06.760 --> 00:37:14.199
greater scheme of strategic in the bigger
strategic game. And you know, so

423
00:37:14.239 --> 00:37:20.199
they in order to in order to
pander to uh part of the you know,

424
00:37:20.880 --> 00:37:22.159
I guess a big part of the
Democrat Party. I don't know how

425
00:37:22.159 --> 00:37:29.519
big the ecological loonies are in that, but you know, in order to

426
00:37:29.519 --> 00:37:34.800
pander them, he's going to do
this thing. And and and I don't

427
00:37:34.800 --> 00:37:37.400
think he or people who are close
to him have you know, sat down

428
00:37:37.400 --> 00:37:40.280
and really weighed the consequences of this, and that that's what troubles me more

429
00:37:40.320 --> 00:37:44.719
than anything. It's like, you
know, some kid kid goes, oh,

430
00:37:44.760 --> 00:37:47.039
you know this is really bad for
the environment, and they immediately respond

431
00:37:47.119 --> 00:37:52.159
by, well, then we'll shut
it down. And that's just that's not

432
00:37:52.119 --> 00:37:55.679
the way theoretically, since they're now
the adults in the room, that's not

433
00:37:55.719 --> 00:38:02.440
the way adults usually act. Now. It's it's and energy has to be

434
00:38:02.480 --> 00:38:12.400
created in order to have people be
housed, fed, and work, and

435
00:38:12.480 --> 00:38:15.079
those energies, those kill a lots
are going to come from some place,

436
00:38:16.119 --> 00:38:23.079
and it's not natural gas. It's
going to be coal. That's really another

437
00:38:23.119 --> 00:38:29.800
option some nation. There's a couple
of nuclear reactors coming online here and there,

438
00:38:29.840 --> 00:38:36.719
but nothing to meet the demand.
And there's been a rightfully good investment

439
00:38:37.039 --> 00:38:43.760
in using natural gas as a source
of energy because it's actually relatively clean for

440
00:38:43.880 --> 00:38:49.880
a quote fossil fuel unquote. Coal
is not. Our friends in West Virginia

441
00:38:49.880 --> 00:38:52.840
would it would love for the price
of coal to go up a fair bit,

442
00:38:52.159 --> 00:39:00.960
as of the folks in Kentucky.
But it's I I don't see a

443
00:39:00.000 --> 00:39:05.320
good explanation anywhere. If you if
any of the listeners out there. I've

444
00:39:05.360 --> 00:39:07.199
seen a good explainer why this is
a good thing for the US or anybody

445
00:39:07.199 --> 00:39:15.400
else, Please let me know.
But again it goes to ideology trumping reason,

446
00:39:15.519 --> 00:39:19.920
which I think is what we're looking
at. Is you have certain constituencies

447
00:39:20.440 --> 00:39:28.079
that poort you for doing why and
this has probably got something to do with

448
00:39:28.159 --> 00:39:30.599
that. It's you know, nothing, everything is a compromise. Everything is

449
00:39:30.599 --> 00:39:37.679
a trade off, and that's just
what we're going to have to see what

450
00:39:37.719 --> 00:39:40.280
effects this has at some point down
the road. But after the experience with

451
00:39:40.280 --> 00:39:45.199
the Russian natural gas, I just
can't believe that. Well. I also

452
00:39:45.320 --> 00:39:52.239
can't believe what's happened to our strategic
petroleum reserve. But it's it's been depleted

453
00:39:52.320 --> 00:39:57.320
for by the same people for the
same lack of again, its priorities.

454
00:39:58.239 --> 00:40:01.719
What can I trade? Can I
tra maid all of this low priority item

455
00:40:01.840 --> 00:40:07.639
that I don't understand or care about
for a return on unrelated items that are

456
00:40:07.719 --> 00:40:14.880
higher up on my constituency's priority lists
When you do the math that way,

457
00:40:15.880 --> 00:40:20.519
because sadly, not everybody, not
everybody agrees with our priority list, I

458
00:40:20.559 --> 00:40:23.440
think that's where you get those disconnects, and at some point down the road,

459
00:40:24.400 --> 00:40:30.000
you'll have enough negative consequences that somebody
else have to come by and clean

460
00:40:30.039 --> 00:40:34.679
it up or repair it as best
as possible. Well, when I was

461
00:40:34.719 --> 00:40:38.039
in the well business in Texas,
there was a period of time when we

462
00:40:38.239 --> 00:40:44.159
spoke a lot about letting the Yankees
freeze in the dark. And you know,

463
00:40:44.480 --> 00:40:49.320
apparently the Biden administration has decided they're
going to let the Europeans freeze in

464
00:40:49.360 --> 00:40:52.400
the dark and see how that goes. I don't, you know, I

465
00:40:52.519 --> 00:40:59.360
just don't get it. And it's
not I'm inside probably I'm going to end

466
00:40:59.400 --> 00:41:01.639
on this. It is not how
you treat your friends. You know,

467
00:41:01.679 --> 00:41:05.039
you don't promise them that you're going
to be there for them and then you

468
00:41:05.400 --> 00:41:08.800
and then you turn around and walk
off, leaving them pulling the bag,

469
00:41:09.000 --> 00:41:14.760
so to speak. That's right,
kind of rolling back a bit. Speaking

470
00:41:14.800 --> 00:41:20.400
of friends, I've been looking for
I have a dedicated like I'm gonna look

471
00:41:20.400 --> 00:41:24.880
at nothing but this for the next
hour. But I've been trying to find

472
00:41:25.320 --> 00:41:32.119
an answer. Of all the nations
you think would be really interested in having

473
00:41:32.119 --> 00:41:36.760
a presence and promoting security in the
Indian Ocean, it would be the Australians,

474
00:41:36.880 --> 00:41:42.440
But they don't have a big navy. They can only pick out a

475
00:41:42.480 --> 00:41:45.639
few things to do, and they
do have a leftist center government right now,

476
00:41:45.679 --> 00:41:49.239
but I don't think of this arena
that really plays into it. Who

477
00:41:49.280 --> 00:41:54.400
knows. I'm not an Australian political
expert, but when you're looking at at

478
00:41:55.119 --> 00:42:01.239
designing ships that we've talked about a
lot here, the newest Australian it's a

479
00:42:01.320 --> 00:42:07.239
variation of the new British frigate that's
coming on board the Type twenty six.

480
00:42:08.000 --> 00:42:13.440
They're calling it the Hunter Class and
it was originally kind of like we talked

481
00:42:13.440 --> 00:42:17.480
about before earlier in the show about
what you think you're going to need,

482
00:42:17.519 --> 00:42:22.559
advice, what reality tells you you
need and when you are these little navies,

483
00:42:22.760 --> 00:42:27.719
like relatively small navies, but what
units they have are capable like the

484
00:42:27.760 --> 00:42:32.440
Australians is when you're invited to the
party, you know, do you actually

485
00:42:32.480 --> 00:42:37.880
have the right kit to show up
and contribute And a lot of times you

486
00:42:37.920 --> 00:42:43.719
can get We have this problem and
we've talked about the submarine threat many times

487
00:42:43.760 --> 00:42:47.559
through the years, and it is
a serious threat and it's kind of a

488
00:42:47.920 --> 00:42:52.840
dark art and to itself, and
it's helpful to have platforms that are very

489
00:42:52.920 --> 00:42:59.519
very good at it, and the
Australians the side of their Type twenty six

490
00:42:59.639 --> 00:43:05.639
was going to be at asw focused
frigate. Okay, that's great. There

491
00:43:05.639 --> 00:43:10.119
are a lot of compromises with it. But interestingly, other people in Australia

492
00:43:10.760 --> 00:43:15.440
are looking at what's happened recently and
are kind of raising their hands and going,

493
00:43:15.480 --> 00:43:21.440
excuse me, excuse me, because
the ship is now looking to displace

494
00:43:21.559 --> 00:43:25.719
about ten thousand tons, which is
more than a flight three Arly Burt,

495
00:43:25.760 --> 00:43:30.840
which I think I know a flight
two A is a little somewhere north of

496
00:43:30.960 --> 00:43:35.159
nine thousand tons, but there's ten
thousand tons. Those originally even planned to

497
00:43:35.159 --> 00:43:37.360
be eighty eight hundred tons, So
their one hundred class frigates are what we

498
00:43:37.360 --> 00:43:43.039
would call destroyer. But it doesn't
have because of what they wanted to do

499
00:43:43.079 --> 00:43:46.320
for anti submary warfare. They don't
have very many VLS cells. And there's

500
00:43:46.360 --> 00:43:53.000
this one thing in Defense News by
Nigel Pittaway that I just wanted to quote

501
00:43:53.000 --> 00:44:00.920
here for a second. This is
from the article Here we go. I

502
00:44:00.960 --> 00:44:02.159
want to do a little bit longer
than before, because it's our show.

503
00:44:02.239 --> 00:44:07.400
We have plenty of times quote VLS
cells has become a convenient proxy to assess

504
00:44:07.440 --> 00:44:12.719
the combat power of warships. By
this standard, the Hunter class for against

505
00:44:12.840 --> 00:44:17.800
thirty two vlsls fall short of other
warships of similar size. Heller total defense

506
00:44:19.039 --> 00:44:22.039
is The critics case is that the
Hunter is a very poor value for money

507
00:44:22.320 --> 00:44:29.679
for such a small number of cells
and the resultant combat capability. But it

508
00:44:29.719 --> 00:44:34.280
is more complex of an issue than
simply numbers. He added, vls cells

509
00:44:34.320 --> 00:44:38.000
are used primarily for air defense missiles
and then land strike missiles. The primary

510
00:44:38.079 --> 00:44:43.679
role of the Hunter is ASW antisubmary
warfare. So does it need more than

511
00:44:43.719 --> 00:44:47.159
thirty two cells? But the primary
role of the Hunter is ASW Why did

512
00:44:47.159 --> 00:44:54.559
the Department of Defense require significant design
changes that are primarily about enhancing anti air

513
00:44:54.719 --> 00:45:00.679
defense capabilities? Unot What that just
screens out to me is so body is

514
00:45:00.039 --> 00:45:06.719
just really blinkered not realizing that you're
not You might not be interested in the

515
00:45:06.760 --> 00:45:09.440
air threat, but if you're out
there doing a sw within range that air

516
00:45:09.480 --> 00:45:19.000
threats can be very interested in you. Yeah, that's right, and but

517
00:45:19.079 --> 00:45:22.400
you know that the other side of
this is that uh and I'm pleased to

518
00:45:22.440 --> 00:45:30.440
see that that the NAFCY people,
the Rapid Development Group there now has been

519
00:45:30.480 --> 00:45:36.719
working with these autonomous UH vessels and
Ranger and whatever the other one is.

520
00:45:37.719 --> 00:45:40.159
You know, they've begun to arm
those things. They put some this is

521
00:45:40.559 --> 00:45:44.079
I know, so does sound like
I'm talking to the same thing you're talking

522
00:45:44.079 --> 00:45:47.760
about. But they've they're putting U
s M six's and some of these army

523
00:45:47.800 --> 00:45:53.400
long range missiles on those autonomous boats. And you're thinking, well, okay,

524
00:45:53.400 --> 00:45:57.960
that's great because the you know,
it is a way to get more

525
00:45:58.039 --> 00:46:04.360
missiles on seen create more targets for
the bad guys to deal with. And

526
00:46:07.239 --> 00:46:10.039
if you if you do enough of
that, if you put enough of those

527
00:46:10.039 --> 00:46:14.760
out there, then then you can
use a vessel like the like the you

528
00:46:14.760 --> 00:46:16.840
know, what are your concerns that
are protecting that kind of fleet? And

529
00:46:16.920 --> 00:46:21.480
this is where the maybe the maybe
the Aussies are right, well, we

530
00:46:21.679 --> 00:46:24.800
have to worry about the submarine threat, somebody spying on where your command ship

531
00:46:24.920 --> 00:46:30.480
is, and then the other threat
would be somebody from the air. So

532
00:46:30.800 --> 00:46:35.320
maybe maybe there's a there's a method
to their madness, but I can't guarantee

533
00:46:35.320 --> 00:46:40.480
it. I want to channel my
ener Jerry Hendrix here when you're you're mentioning

534
00:46:40.559 --> 00:46:45.280
that, well, may he clicked
in mind. Is is two things.

535
00:46:46.480 --> 00:46:53.400
And again I remain an opt optimistic
skeptic when it comes to unmanned systems,

536
00:46:53.440 --> 00:46:58.679
mostly because of getting we have to
get the engineering right. But I could

537
00:46:58.719 --> 00:47:06.960
definitely see when you marry the air
side of the house is what do they

538
00:47:06.960 --> 00:47:13.039
call it, the loyal wingman concept
where you have the man platform and then

539
00:47:13.079 --> 00:47:16.159
you have some unmanned ones that are
with them with This is where Vy Jerry

540
00:47:16.199 --> 00:47:22.360
Hendrick come out the I think he's
a big fan of the Honor Harrington series

541
00:47:22.159 --> 00:47:27.039
where it was a science fiction where
they actually have you know, space missile

542
00:47:27.079 --> 00:47:31.079
barges that if you had you two
you're a big fan as well. If

543
00:47:31.119 --> 00:47:37.960
you have your Hunter class asw frigate, who's going to be going into a

544
00:47:38.000 --> 00:47:42.079
hostile environment. Or let's say you
know you've already got your first three holes

545
00:47:42.119 --> 00:47:45.760
in the wire in the water eight
years from now, and instead of everybody

546
00:47:45.800 --> 00:47:51.960
having generation zero or Generation one anti
ship palllistic missiles, there's now generation three

547
00:47:52.000 --> 00:47:55.280
and four out there. You need
more anti ballistic missile capability. Well,

548
00:47:55.280 --> 00:48:04.320
we've already demonstrated the fact that we've
mastered the quad packed missiles and the armored

549
00:48:04.639 --> 00:48:08.679
box launchers. You can have your
hunter out there with their laurel wingman on

550
00:48:08.800 --> 00:48:16.559
either side of them that have a
dozen each dedicated anti aircraft anti blist missile

551
00:48:16.599 --> 00:48:23.119
missiles that they have the right.
I think the issue is they can have

552
00:48:23.400 --> 00:48:28.400
the right radars, just not have
enough BLS tubes. So there's your augment,

553
00:48:28.840 --> 00:48:34.280
there's your use of as long as
you can stop it from being a

554
00:48:34.360 --> 00:48:38.960
leaky electronic warparor target. That's something
that in the unmanned systems, I think

555
00:48:39.559 --> 00:48:44.400
at least in the near or the
medium term. That's what I would really

556
00:48:44.519 --> 00:48:47.159
like to see is everybody, including
you know, Brian McGrath, has been

557
00:48:47.199 --> 00:48:53.559
on here yelling about we just have
enough blsls. We can only build arly

558
00:48:53.639 --> 00:48:59.599
Burke so fast. But let's go
back to our Iranian not so much friends,

559
00:49:00.000 --> 00:49:06.039
where they've converted a couple of mership
merchant ships into drone and helicopter carriers.

560
00:49:06.639 --> 00:49:09.440
Okay, how many connex boxes full
of uh S M three's and s

561
00:49:09.559 --> 00:49:14.320
M six is. Can you strap
onto one of those that's been automated.

562
00:49:14.360 --> 00:49:17.599
They can hang out with your frigates
to give VLS sels. I know some

563
00:49:17.599 --> 00:49:22.840
people have been talking about that,
but I would not think that would be

564
00:49:22.199 --> 00:49:29.360
too hard of a concept inside the
next Palm cycle or two for us with

565
00:49:29.480 --> 00:49:32.119
our allies to go out and uh, give it, give it to third

566
00:49:32.119 --> 00:49:35.639
Fleet and said go play with it. Tell us, tell us what's good

567
00:49:35.639 --> 00:49:38.679
and bad about it. That that
I think is a is a capability gap

568
00:49:38.719 --> 00:49:45.199
filler. That isn't pie in the
sky, It isn't science fiction. It's

569
00:49:45.480 --> 00:49:50.400
if you can get the engineering right
and you can work the comms issue correctly,

570
00:49:50.440 --> 00:49:54.440
which we may have already had is
just classified. That's that's that can

571
00:49:54.480 --> 00:50:01.239
give us a comparative advantage because I
doubt the Chinese can move that. Yeah,

572
00:50:01.239 --> 00:50:07.719
well I'm not. You know,
anybody can develop drone technology for the

573
00:50:07.800 --> 00:50:14.400
unmanned aircraft, unmanned vessels. I
think you know they can. It can

574
00:50:14.480 --> 00:50:20.639
be developed pretty quickly. The the
back in two thousand and nine, Wayne

575
00:50:20.679 --> 00:50:23.199
Hughes said, you know, there
was a discussion about the new He wrote

576
00:50:23.239 --> 00:50:30.320
a piece for the the Naval work
at the Naval Postgraduate School on on the

577
00:50:30.320 --> 00:50:37.800
the what is it the new the
new the new oh Man, the new

578
00:50:37.840 --> 00:50:43.079
min It was a new Navy,
the new Navy fighting machine. Thank you?

579
00:50:43.159 --> 00:50:45.039
Yeah. Basically you know it was
based that was a riff on on

580
00:50:45.079 --> 00:50:50.639
an older piece of the navy fighting
machine. And and he proposed that that

581
00:50:51.480 --> 00:50:54.960
we should have land attack missileships,
each sharing fifty missiles and numbering about twenty

582
00:50:55.039 --> 00:50:59.679
inexpensive vessels that can be deployed in
pairs or tasks forth. The mean is,

583
00:50:59.760 --> 00:51:04.719
we just just had this discussion last
week with our guests about about the

584
00:51:05.719 --> 00:51:12.039
what he called the well, he
called a missile missile. But his idea

585
00:51:12.119 --> 00:51:15.199
was you'd cycle these things in.
You load up these a ship that'd have

586
00:51:15.199 --> 00:51:19.519
to be heavily armed, inexpensive,
You load it up with missiles. It

587
00:51:19.599 --> 00:51:23.639
comes and sits farther away from the
from where the action is, but can

588
00:51:23.719 --> 00:51:28.480
fire a whole bunch of stuff.
And when it's empty, you send an

589
00:51:28.519 --> 00:51:34.000
empty now useless vessel back to be
re armed, and you roll in a

590
00:51:34.079 --> 00:51:38.159
new missile missile ship. And and
you just keep doing that, and you've

591
00:51:38.159 --> 00:51:42.079
got I mean, if if you
had fifty missiles on a ship, you've

592
00:51:42.079 --> 00:51:45.800
got twenty ships. That's a thousand
more missiles. And and I think that

593
00:51:45.840 --> 00:51:51.920
when when Captain Hughes wrote the piece, that that was probably the high you

594
00:51:51.960 --> 00:51:57.159
know, the heyday of high tech
that you could get twenty twenty of these

595
00:51:57.159 --> 00:51:59.480
things carrying fifty missles eat. I
mean, we could probably do a lot

596
00:51:59.519 --> 00:52:02.559
more than that, but your your
risk is that you don't want to overburden

597
00:52:02.599 --> 00:52:07.000
this either. And have you know
this thing turned into a ship the size

598
00:52:07.039 --> 00:52:14.800
of one of these Uh what's what's
the new cruise ship? That's just huge?

599
00:52:14.840 --> 00:52:17.000
But as well not even leave forward
it's so big. Uh yeah,

600
00:52:17.239 --> 00:52:21.559
you know, it's almost like you
could get an a I fake Yeah,

601
00:52:21.599 --> 00:52:24.440
I mean, I'm just thinking of
the of the radar pictures that that thing

602
00:52:24.599 --> 00:52:28.280
paints and going, well, I
don't think we didn't quite that big.

603
00:52:28.400 --> 00:52:31.239
You know, I would go a
little smaller than that, but I want

604
00:52:31.280 --> 00:52:36.159
a whole bunch of VLS cells on
the thing. And you know, if

605
00:52:36.159 --> 00:52:38.679
it has to be some is submersible
or something, that'd be great too.

606
00:52:39.559 --> 00:52:44.840
I'm sure John Conrad has some thoughts
on that. I mean, I don't

607
00:52:45.000 --> 00:52:47.400
I don't know what you give up
for some I submersible, but but you

608
00:52:47.480 --> 00:52:51.320
know, something to keep your make
it low profile, and make it have

609
00:52:51.360 --> 00:52:53.800
a whole bunch of vls's and and
make it returnable. So it's like you

610
00:52:53.880 --> 00:52:59.000
know when we used to take coke
bottles back to the storing in our two

611
00:52:59.079 --> 00:53:06.119
cents, we could buy and use
and these things could be unmanned. I

612
00:53:06.199 --> 00:53:09.639
mean, they don't have to have
people on them, and that's always are

613
00:53:10.159 --> 00:53:16.320
optionally manned. You've heard, yeah, exactly a lot of these merchant ships,

614
00:53:16.719 --> 00:53:21.320
which I think would be the ideal
interim step as opposed that we're going

615
00:53:21.360 --> 00:53:28.280
to take ten years to develop something
very minimally manned, and they don't have

616
00:53:29.199 --> 00:53:31.440
if we're going to be using them. As you know, Hey, we

617
00:53:31.480 --> 00:53:39.239
would really like for this frigate to
have an extra three dozen blsls, but

618
00:53:39.320 --> 00:53:45.039
you know what, you just can't
do that in the tonnage. Okay,

619
00:53:45.280 --> 00:53:52.719
Well, we have these auxiliaries that
can come in optionally manned in case you,

620
00:53:52.039 --> 00:53:58.400
for whatever reason, you can't make
that happen. They can get they

621
00:53:58.480 --> 00:54:01.679
can tuck in behind your your destroyers
for air defense. But they're not there

622
00:54:01.760 --> 00:54:05.239
to hang out forever. They're there
to hang out for a certain period of

623
00:54:05.280 --> 00:54:09.400
time, and like you said,
they go Winchester, they turn around and

624
00:54:10.360 --> 00:54:15.079
head east to wherever they need to
rendezvous to pick up their crew. If

625
00:54:15.119 --> 00:54:20.760
they have a crew and somebody else
comes across the horizon ready to check in

626
00:54:21.679 --> 00:54:24.320
with the strike Group and there's your
extra three dozen of the vls els.

627
00:54:25.400 --> 00:54:31.920
Yeah, it's not something that has
to be manned twenty four to seven three

628
00:54:32.039 --> 00:54:38.440
sixty five. We could There's all
sorts of ways you could have them in

629
00:54:38.760 --> 00:54:43.280
a high readin es State because you
don't need them. Yeah, they can

630
00:54:43.320 --> 00:54:45.159
have them go out on a COMP
two X, or go off on a

631
00:54:45.280 --> 00:54:50.039
JTFX, or maybe do an exercise
with fourth Fleet now and then. But

632
00:54:50.119 --> 00:54:55.639
there's no reason why you couldn't have
a few of them in Mayport, Norfolk,

633
00:54:55.880 --> 00:55:00.719
San Diego. There's plenty of places
around Ford Island you could drop anchor

634
00:55:00.760 --> 00:55:06.719
on those puppies. They don't have
to have a underway schedule. They just

635
00:55:06.800 --> 00:55:09.719
need to be available, kind of
like the maritime prepositioning ships. But they're

636
00:55:10.559 --> 00:55:16.679
they're your place. Your connex boxes
of missiles stations ALPHA through India by in

637
00:55:16.760 --> 00:55:21.079
the next ninety six hours, get
underway in one hundred and twenty eight hours

638
00:55:21.119 --> 00:55:24.960
type of thing. That is something
that we actually I think could have done

639
00:55:25.039 --> 00:55:35.559
ten years ago and just waited for
the engineering problem and the other issues involving

640
00:55:35.599 --> 00:55:40.480
communications and control of these things if
we really need to gettional BLS. But

641
00:55:40.599 --> 00:55:45.639
I can also your people say,
Okay, you've got all these vls is.

642
00:55:45.920 --> 00:55:51.199
Do we have enough weapons in the
magazines to put in them. Yes,

643
00:55:51.559 --> 00:55:53.079
if you build it, we fill
them three or four times. Maybe

644
00:55:53.159 --> 00:55:59.000
not, but you built If you
build it, they will come. I

645
00:55:59.079 --> 00:56:06.960
think was Admiral Green who who talked
about payloads not platforms and also talked about

646
00:56:07.400 --> 00:56:14.800
yeah uh and I think he kind
of was behind this sort of thinking.

647
00:56:14.920 --> 00:56:17.960
You know that right now we spend
are going to spend a whole bunch of

648
00:56:19.000 --> 00:56:22.800
money on s S, g N
S and that that's great. You know,

649
00:56:22.920 --> 00:56:28.360
they are they are pretty much I
mean, obviously there's a state of

650
00:56:28.400 --> 00:56:30.079
the art, but we can spend
a whole lot less money and get a

651
00:56:30.119 --> 00:56:37.719
whole lot more uh vls is out
there, and and and and we have

652
00:56:37.840 --> 00:56:42.440
the technology obviously. The fact that
the the Ranger and the uh the other

653
00:56:43.440 --> 00:56:45.920
shipper able to carry these things,
and we've even put these things on l

654
00:56:46.000 --> 00:56:51.320
c s is maybe there's a use
for those things after all, you know,

655
00:56:52.239 --> 00:56:54.239
turn them into missile boats. But
the l S is not vls is,

656
00:56:54.280 --> 00:56:57.840
but the boxes on there. I
don't you know that the Russians have

657
00:56:57.960 --> 00:57:01.280
these club missiles that come in a
box and I'm pretty sure they you know,

658
00:57:01.320 --> 00:57:04.599
they're willing to sell those to a
lot of people, so it's not

659
00:57:04.760 --> 00:57:07.719
something that's totally unique. And yeah, there's no reason for us to always

660
00:57:07.880 --> 00:57:12.840
have to go high end. And
and if it's a matter of well,

661
00:57:13.039 --> 00:57:15.639
you know, we don't want to
risk the crew, then you know,

662
00:57:15.920 --> 00:57:21.199
as you say, minimal man,
minimally manned, and make sure that they

663
00:57:21.360 --> 00:57:27.960
have uh, some kind of really
nice escape capsule should something happen to them,

664
00:57:28.000 --> 00:57:31.800
you know, so they you're you're, you're if if the fear is

665
00:57:31.800 --> 00:57:36.159
we're going to lose people, because
it's an expendable type system, and I

666
00:57:36.239 --> 00:57:38.519
think we need to say, okay, well, the unmanned ones we can

667
00:57:38.679 --> 00:57:43.480
we can deal with. The minimally
man we can deal with by providing some

668
00:57:43.639 --> 00:57:46.199
kind of I remember the old B
fifty eight Hustler that had a it had

669
00:57:46.239 --> 00:57:50.039
a capsule that the crew ejected in
as a as a whole. I don't

670
00:57:50.039 --> 00:57:53.400
know if it worked or not,
but yeah, yeah, maybe that too.

671
00:57:54.320 --> 00:57:59.719
Oh did they okay? Good?
Yeah, the whole whole capsule went

672
00:57:59.760 --> 00:58:06.320
went with you. And you know, you mentioned the LCS and most people

673
00:58:06.440 --> 00:58:08.000
know my opinion of it. No
reason to rehash that but you're right,

674
00:58:08.440 --> 00:58:14.599
especially the independence class variant. She
has that huge deck if we can't do

675
00:58:14.679 --> 00:58:20.199
anything else with it, and it's
clear that she really can't defend herself an

676
00:58:20.280 --> 00:58:25.199
environment like the Huthis are providing,
but she could tuck in pretty close behind

677
00:58:25.280 --> 00:58:30.599
in Arley Burke. They could give
her that extra extended coverage that she would

678
00:58:30.639 --> 00:58:37.280
need, and there would be extra
capabilities for that Arley Burke. And especially

679
00:58:37.320 --> 00:58:42.480
if you're going to be hunting dows
or something, or at least doing some

680
00:58:42.800 --> 00:58:51.599
your LCS is allowed to go X
distance from your Arley Burke, given her

681
00:58:51.639 --> 00:58:53.880
the top cover to do what needs
to be done besides your point defense.

682
00:58:54.519 --> 00:59:01.119
So having those vlsls filled with whatever
toys you want to definitely would be a

683
00:59:01.639 --> 00:59:07.199
multiplier and would get additional ships out
there. But I don't think we're ready

684
00:59:07.239 --> 00:59:09.320
to do that anytime in the next
two Palm cycles, but it would be

685
00:59:09.320 --> 00:59:15.360
an interesting concept to do again.
We used to experiment a lot, even

686
00:59:15.400 --> 00:59:22.039
when deployed. Get some get enough
duct tape, belling wire spot well,

687
00:59:22.119 --> 00:59:27.880
those puppies to the to the deck, give some well caffeinated, over ambitious

688
00:59:28.360 --> 00:59:34.199
coo and say hey, head west, young man, go deploy with this

689
00:59:34.320 --> 00:59:37.440
strike roof and then you're going to
debrief if when you get back, tell

690
00:59:37.519 --> 00:59:40.800
us what you learned. Why not? Yeah, sam La grown Grown had

691
00:59:40.840 --> 00:59:45.599
a piece on the USNI news.
You know, Army long range missile launcher

692
00:59:45.679 --> 00:59:51.519
spotted on Navy elatoral combat ship for
littoral combat ship. And you know,

693
00:59:51.719 --> 00:59:53.679
yeah, okay, there's somebody's playing
with it. Somebody's out there playing with

694
00:59:53.760 --> 00:59:59.039
this concept. But just just just
move along faster. We don't have time

695
00:59:59.079 --> 01:00:06.039
to to uh. Sometimes you know
it will work. And what you do

696
01:00:06.239 --> 01:00:10.000
is you you sometimes you have to
move forward and then and and discover the

697
01:00:10.039 --> 01:00:13.519
glitches later, I think. And
that is what I'm trying to say,

698
01:00:13.960 --> 01:00:16.840
you know, because this this is
this is something needs to be played with

699
01:00:17.159 --> 01:00:20.760
and if you're going to train like
you're going to fight, this is the

700
01:00:20.800 --> 01:00:24.039
time to start playing with it hard
and make it, make it work,

701
01:00:24.239 --> 01:00:28.880
because it gives the bad guys something
else to think about. You're right,

702
01:00:28.960 --> 01:00:31.920
and people should be allowed to fail
to. Yeah, you go out there

703
01:00:32.039 --> 01:00:36.920
and when you debrief, like,
don't come up and feed the folks of

704
01:00:36.960 --> 01:00:39.360
happy talk. Tell them what you
learned, good bad. If it's a

705
01:00:39.400 --> 01:00:44.199
great concept, wonderful, let's do
more of it. If it's if it

706
01:00:44.719 --> 01:00:47.400
doesn't make it past the PowerPoint you
had all these problems, Well, at

707
01:00:47.480 --> 01:00:52.159
least we figured it out. If
it's a combination of the two, then

708
01:00:52.239 --> 01:00:54.360
we can fix it. We've we've
done this, done this before. But

709
01:00:55.079 --> 01:00:59.400
uh, some of it's analysis paralysis. There is also you know, this

710
01:00:59.559 --> 01:01:04.840
isn't my idea, This doesn't have
a program. But again that's that's all

711
01:01:05.440 --> 01:01:12.800
self imposed constraints on our own action, which which is fixable if we if

712
01:01:12.800 --> 01:01:17.719
we wanted to. But it's what
we've been joking about recently, problem appreciation.

713
01:01:19.599 --> 01:01:23.400
It's fun to appreciate the problems.
This some variation of what we've been

714
01:01:23.440 --> 01:01:30.360
talking about in that regard, it
would solve not all, but more of

715
01:01:30.480 --> 01:01:35.000
the problem that we have than what
our plans are right now. We just

716
01:01:35.039 --> 01:01:38.599
saw a note from our good friend's
Southern Air pirate. He brought up a

717
01:01:38.639 --> 01:01:44.360
picture of the old battle cruiser of
two thousand, which was the Arsenal ship,

718
01:01:44.440 --> 01:01:47.800
which had eight million, three hundred
and fifty two thousand val itself.

719
01:01:49.599 --> 01:01:52.559
Oh yeah, I remember that Arsenol
ship. Yeah yeah, that was a

720
01:01:52.840 --> 01:01:57.719
you know, I think I think
Greenard called the thing a missile. A

721
01:01:57.880 --> 01:02:02.559
missile had a second, A missile
truck. You know, sure, missile

722
01:02:02.559 --> 01:02:07.800
truck. Good idea, let's do
it. It wasn't hurt too much.

723
01:02:07.840 --> 01:02:13.119
But hey, I just realized we've
already gone past an hour. I don't

724
01:02:13.159 --> 01:02:16.800
know. Usually people are gonna people
are gonna miss the NFL playoff games if

725
01:02:16.840 --> 01:02:21.440
they haven't they missed the first one, probably yeah, they pretty much have.

726
01:02:21.880 --> 01:02:27.119
But just thought i'd let the listeners
know that we're taking next week off,

727
01:02:27.199 --> 01:02:30.079
but we're come back in a couple
of weeks. I believe we're going

728
01:02:30.159 --> 01:02:35.880
to have doctor doctor John kuhn uh
or cune I can't ever pronounce his name

729
01:02:35.960 --> 01:02:38.679
right Uh from the Army War College
has been on a few times before.

730
01:02:39.119 --> 01:02:44.639
We're still broadly looking at what we're
going to talk about. Uh. But

731
01:02:45.679 --> 01:02:51.519
we had our prior guests, Jeff
Bendenegele that was with us last week talking

732
01:02:51.559 --> 01:02:54.239
about the carrier. There's been a
bunch of talk back and forth with how

733
01:02:54.320 --> 01:03:00.440
the carriers have been working off of
A Yemen recently as well. But there's

734
01:03:00.480 --> 01:03:06.599
a track record here that is interesting. Everybody talks about carriers being vulnerable.

735
01:03:07.480 --> 01:03:10.920
That's not new, and he's actually
done a lot of research and part of

736
01:03:12.000 --> 01:03:16.800
his recent book actually looks at the
period in the first half of the Second

737
01:03:16.840 --> 01:03:21.840
World War in the Pacific that a
lot of people forget about is the fact

738
01:03:21.920 --> 01:03:25.760
that, yeah, we were at
one point we had one carrier in some

739
01:03:25.880 --> 01:03:30.679
way zero carriers, and we were
fighting in the Pacific anyway, But we

740
01:03:30.760 --> 01:03:34.360
figured that would be an interesting time
to talk about some of the realities of

741
01:03:34.719 --> 01:03:37.679
contested space in the Pacific. So
hopefully two weeks from now we'll be back

742
01:03:37.800 --> 01:03:42.760
with John. Yeah, look forward
to it. And I hope everybody has

743
01:03:43.960 --> 01:03:51.239
good luck with their NFL playoffs and
then the rest of their lives. Yep.

744
01:03:51.519 --> 01:03:53.719
And I hope everybody is having a
great Navy day. Until next time.

745
01:03:53.920 --> 01:04:15.480
Cheers wants to marry me and a
friend because really for you being to

746
01:04:15.719 --> 01:04:26.000
blame for love telling on me said, folding your the same. It's a

747
01:04:26.199 --> 01:04:34.239
long way to dip y. It's
a long way. It's a long way

748
01:04:34.800 --> 01:04:48.119
to dipper army, to be Queen
dor becdi farewell, listen, twell,

749
01:04:49.440 --> 01:04:56.639
it's a long long way to dippery. It's but my, w my,

750
01:05:10.119 --> 01:05:14.840
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