WEBVTT 1 00:00:31.960 --> 00:00:35.200 Welcome to part two of The Path Went Chili. As we continue to discuss 2 00:00:35.240 --> 00:00:39.920 the unsolved disappearance of Antonette Kayadito. So let's dive right in and start talking 3 00:00:39.920 --> 00:00:44.280 about it again. So one person who was now looked at as a potential 4 00:00:44.320 --> 00:00:49.759 suspect is a guy named Emiliano Gardella and he went by the nickname Imo. 5 00:00:50.280 --> 00:00:55.079 So the story goes is that on the night before Antonette went missing, Penny 6 00:00:55.159 --> 00:00:57.920 was planning to go out to the bar. She had hired a babysitter to 7 00:00:58.039 --> 00:01:02.079 watch over her children, and then Emo just suddenly showed up at the residence 8 00:01:02.119 --> 00:01:06.959 and brought Antonette flowers a gift and had Antonette sit on his lap while Penny 9 00:01:07.079 --> 00:01:10.640 was gone from the room. And according to Sadie A, Penny did not 10 00:01:10.879 --> 00:01:15.439 mention this that Emo had stop by her house until about four days after Antonette 11 00:01:15.439 --> 00:01:19.760 originally went missing. She didn't willingly go forward and tell the police about him. 12 00:01:21.120 --> 00:01:23.439 They only found out when another family member just casually mentioned it in a 13 00:01:23.439 --> 00:01:26.920 conversation, saying something like, oh, Emo was at the house that night, 14 00:01:27.000 --> 00:01:30.560 And then they said, Penny, who's this Emo guy? Why didn't 15 00:01:30.599 --> 00:01:33.719 you tell us about it before? And that's when she finally told the full 16 00:01:33.799 --> 00:01:37.519 story. There were apparently other witnesses who were in the house that night who 17 00:01:37.560 --> 00:01:41.359 said that Emo brought flowers and that they found the whole thing pretty weird. 18 00:01:42.000 --> 00:01:47.280 And apparently like Penny knew Emo because they both had a mutual friend named Ron 19 00:01:47.359 --> 00:01:51.439 Perry, who was apparently one of Penny's best friends. And this was not 20 00:01:51.480 --> 00:01:53.680 the first time Emo had been at the house, but on the previous occasions, 21 00:01:53.719 --> 00:01:59.040 Emo had only been there with Ron Perry, but on this particular night, 22 00:01:59.079 --> 00:02:01.159 it was the very first time that he had ever shown up alone. 23 00:02:01.719 --> 00:02:07.000 And what's weird is that he gave Antonette flowers and a bear, And after 24 00:02:07.040 --> 00:02:10.439 Antonette disappeared, Penny apparently set up a shrine in the house in her memory 25 00:02:10.800 --> 00:02:15.280 and had the same barre necklace on display as an ornament on the shrine. 26 00:02:15.639 --> 00:02:17.360 And a lot of people, once they hear this story, are having major 27 00:02:17.479 --> 00:02:22.159 red flags about Emo and are thinking, why would you take this gift that 28 00:02:22.199 --> 00:02:25.360 this guy brought you and put it on a shrine for your daughter. That's 29 00:02:25.400 --> 00:02:30.479 so weird. So he brought this gift that night, or he brought this 30 00:02:30.520 --> 00:02:34.520 gift a previous night, well technically it was the night before Antonette went missing. 31 00:02:35.240 --> 00:02:37.960 She went missing in the early morning hours, and he apparently showed up 32 00:02:37.960 --> 00:02:40.879 at night when Penny was going out at the bar. But basically like it 33 00:02:40.879 --> 00:02:46.240 would have been within a twelve hour period type of a deal exactly, so 34 00:02:46.599 --> 00:02:50.759 he would have come over given that gift. And so if she had that 35 00:02:50.879 --> 00:02:54.039 gift, I guess, I mean, if she wasn't wearing it, it 36 00:02:54.039 --> 00:02:57.840 would have been left behind. But I think it's a little bit odd to 37 00:02:57.879 --> 00:03:00.759 pick a gift even if she wasn't where it didn't have the bear, and 38 00:03:00.840 --> 00:03:05.240 put these items aside, and then she was taken. Why would you put 39 00:03:05.280 --> 00:03:08.360 items that weren't even really hers. It's not like you saw her walking around 40 00:03:08.439 --> 00:03:13.159 wearing this necklace carrying this bear for years. I feel like you would pick 41 00:03:13.199 --> 00:03:17.199 items that have a little more sentimentality to them, like sentimental value, something 42 00:03:17.199 --> 00:03:21.840 that you'd seen your daughter carry her favorite stuff, toy, her favorite blanket, 43 00:03:22.520 --> 00:03:24.800 anything like whatever it was. Did she like to wear a mood ring? 44 00:03:24.840 --> 00:03:29.520 Did you have a favorite like sweatshirt? They were representative of her? 45 00:03:29.919 --> 00:03:34.280 Are these new items that have been given representative of her? It all feels 46 00:03:34.280 --> 00:03:38.520 a little beard and this emo guy seems a little bit strange, Yeah, 47 00:03:38.560 --> 00:03:40.560 exactly. Like apparently the other witnesses who saw him just thought it was kind 48 00:03:40.599 --> 00:03:45.919 of inappropriate that he's taking Antonette and having him sit on her knee. And 49 00:03:46.319 --> 00:03:50.840 if one interpretation is that if Penny knew that Emo was the person who took 50 00:03:50.840 --> 00:03:54.080 her daughter or she willingly gave her away, then maybe she was keeping this 51 00:03:54.120 --> 00:03:58.719 bear necklace around as kind of a reminder about what she did. But they 52 00:03:58.800 --> 00:04:02.479 found the whole situation to be quite odd. Emo was apparently questioned by a 53 00:04:02.560 --> 00:04:06.919 law enforcement and given a polygraph, but the results have never been disclosed publicly. 54 00:04:08.240 --> 00:04:11.879 But what's also interesting is that Emo apparently never showed up at the house 55 00:04:11.919 --> 00:04:16.079 again after Antonette went missing, which in itself might not be unusual, but 56 00:04:16.279 --> 00:04:20.959 this other guy who was Emo's friend who introduced him to Penny ron Perry, 57 00:04:21.240 --> 00:04:26.839 he also apparently never showed up at Penny's house again after Antonette went missing, 58 00:04:26.839 --> 00:04:31.319 even though he previously had been around there all the time. That's really sketchy. 59 00:04:31.439 --> 00:04:35.000 It feels like there's some kind of collusion there. I mean, I 60 00:04:35.000 --> 00:04:38.360 guess you could look at it in this situation like that and be like, 61 00:04:38.399 --> 00:04:41.720 they're two men who don't know how to handle grief, and they don't know 62 00:04:41.759 --> 00:04:46.560 how to come into a situation where somebody's feelings and their emotions are just so 63 00:04:46.800 --> 00:04:49.519 raw. There's some people that don't know how to deal with that. But 64 00:04:49.639 --> 00:04:56.680 I feel like if that was the case, then Ron would basically, you 65 00:04:56.720 --> 00:05:00.040 know, wait a couple months and then come around. Because if it it 66 00:05:00.120 --> 00:05:02.680 was somewhere that you spent a great deal of time and you were close with 67 00:05:02.759 --> 00:05:06.879 Penny, close with the girls, what would keep you away in a tragedy 68 00:05:06.959 --> 00:05:11.720 like that. I mean, if you had some type of involvement, that 69 00:05:11.759 --> 00:05:15.560 would make sense for sure. And this Emo guy is just like creepaf like, 70 00:05:15.639 --> 00:05:19.519 come sit on my knee, little girl. Oh, and then she 71 00:05:19.600 --> 00:05:24.480 goes missing and then he's just never around again. It just seems to be 72 00:05:24.600 --> 00:05:28.480 all the red flags coming up for these two. Was there some kind of 73 00:05:28.480 --> 00:05:31.879 collusion, Was there a payment made, Was there just some kind of other 74 00:05:31.959 --> 00:05:35.959 exchange made. I don't know. It just seems so sketchy, and it 75 00:05:36.040 --> 00:05:41.759 just makes me feel really uncomfortable exactly. Yeah, So my mind was blown 76 00:05:41.759 --> 00:05:44.519 when I heard this. It's like, Wow, these guys were like really 77 00:05:44.560 --> 00:05:46.480 suspicious right from the get go. You get the sense that Emo may have 78 00:05:46.519 --> 00:05:50.079 been involved, and that even if Ronald Well it wasn't personally involved, he 79 00:05:50.120 --> 00:05:54.439 may have knowledge about what happened. But this is the first time their names 80 00:05:54.439 --> 00:05:59.319 were ever released publicly. So now we're going to talk about Sadie's new revelations, 81 00:05:59.399 --> 00:06:02.639 and she gave a completely different story than the one that was reported back 82 00:06:02.680 --> 00:06:06.959 in nineteen eighty six when she was seven years old. I previously said that 83 00:06:08.040 --> 00:06:11.439 when Penny returned home from the bar and sent them maybe sit her home, 84 00:06:11.639 --> 00:06:14.560 she spent the next three hours playing with all the kids, and then they 85 00:06:14.600 --> 00:06:17.600 went to bed together in the same bedroom at around three am. Well, 86 00:06:17.639 --> 00:06:21.600 now Sadie is saying that when Penny came home, she sent her and Wendy 87 00:06:21.639 --> 00:06:26.680 to bed at around midnight, but instead she let Antonette stay up so that 88 00:06:26.720 --> 00:06:30.600 they could play cards together, which Sadie said was very unusual that even though 89 00:06:30.639 --> 00:06:33.680 Antonette was the oldest child, it seemed kind of odd that her mother would 90 00:06:33.680 --> 00:06:38.480 want to play cards sometime after midnight after being out drinking at a bar. 91 00:06:39.399 --> 00:06:43.480 Sadie also says that shortly after being put to bed, a man started knocking 92 00:06:43.480 --> 00:06:46.759 on the door. Not someone claiming to be Uncle Joe, but just another 93 00:06:46.839 --> 00:06:49.279 man who was asking Penny to let him in, and that Penny just told 94 00:06:49.279 --> 00:06:54.279 the kids to ignore him and then this man would go away. Apparently, 95 00:06:54.319 --> 00:06:57.959 they eventually tracked this man down and found it it was a guy named Roger, 96 00:06:58.319 --> 00:07:01.079 whom Penny had been out at the bar with earlier that night. Apparently 97 00:07:01.120 --> 00:07:04.480 they had gotten into an argument more there, and Roger was pretty drunk at 98 00:07:04.480 --> 00:07:06.839 the time, so he showed up to the house in the middle of the 99 00:07:06.920 --> 00:07:11.759 night started knocking on the door and window asking for Penny, but when no 100 00:07:11.839 --> 00:07:15.800 one answered, he left. They did to question Roger at the time, 101 00:07:15.879 --> 00:07:18.199 and he claimed that after he left Penny's residence, he went to spend the 102 00:07:18.279 --> 00:07:21.720 night at a friend's house, and the friend backed up his version of events, 103 00:07:21.759 --> 00:07:25.519 gave him an alibi, and confirmed that he was there all night. 104 00:07:26.000 --> 00:07:30.000 So it seems unlikely that Roger was involved in Antonette's disappearance. He was pretty 105 00:07:30.040 --> 00:07:34.079 much cleared as a suspect. But this is another weird variation of this story 106 00:07:34.079 --> 00:07:38.160 where we have this man knocking at the door in the middle of the night, 107 00:07:38.519 --> 00:07:41.639 but it's not someone claiming to be Uncle Joe. There's no version of 108 00:07:41.639 --> 00:07:45.439 this story where Antonette is answering the door so it's just kind of this weird 109 00:07:45.519 --> 00:07:49.879 mixture of reality and fantasy where it's kind of similar to the other stories we've 110 00:07:49.920 --> 00:07:54.279 heard, but not quite So now you really have no idea what the full 111 00:07:54.319 --> 00:08:01.000 truth is. I'm confused. I mean, it's possible. If it is 112 00:08:01.040 --> 00:08:03.040 the case, I feel really bad for these girls because it feels like they're 113 00:08:03.079 --> 00:08:07.839 in a really unsafe situation, which is all these random manner around all the 114 00:08:07.920 --> 00:08:13.480 time. It just feels yucky. But I'm a little confused as to the 115 00:08:13.600 --> 00:08:16.600 variation in the story. And what does Sadie say. Does she say that 116 00:08:16.680 --> 00:08:22.199 she embellished the earlier story or does she just somehow remember it differently now? 117 00:08:22.480 --> 00:08:28.000 And are we supposed to rely on this different memory as being the correct memory 118 00:08:28.360 --> 00:08:31.879 even though so many years have passed and so many other things it could influence 119 00:08:31.879 --> 00:08:35.639 her memory have been there right, whether it be her mother, whether it 120 00:08:35.639 --> 00:08:39.799 be law enforcement, whether it be her sister, or any outside forces. 121 00:08:39.320 --> 00:08:45.320 It just seems like I would rely on what was the most immediate memory unless 122 00:08:45.360 --> 00:08:48.679 she's saying I fabricated that for reasons A, B or C. Yeah, 123 00:08:48.679 --> 00:08:52.399 she has never flat out in a minute that she fabricated it, So it 124 00:08:52.440 --> 00:08:56.559 could be a thing that maybe it was reported on inaccurately, But her version 125 00:08:56.559 --> 00:08:58.919 of events is that back in nineteen eighty six, which was reported on the 126 00:09:00.120 --> 00:09:03.639 newspapers, as you recall, is that she woke up, She was woken 127 00:09:03.720 --> 00:09:07.320 up by the sound of knocking. She followed Antonette to the door, and 128 00:09:07.360 --> 00:09:09.960 there was a man and woman outside saying that they were her aunt and uncle, 129 00:09:11.080 --> 00:09:13.600 but Antonette decided not to let them in. And now she's saying that 130 00:09:13.639 --> 00:09:16.480 she and then she said she heard a second knock on the door where Antonette 131 00:09:16.519 --> 00:09:20.720 left the bedroom, but she didn't see what happened. But at no point 132 00:09:20.720 --> 00:09:24.559 did Sadie ever say that anyone knocked at the door claiming to be Uncle Joe. 133 00:09:24.960 --> 00:09:28.840 The only person who has ever provided that story was Wendy, but Sadie 134 00:09:28.879 --> 00:09:31.039 is now completely denying it. She says that I only heard one knock on 135 00:09:31.080 --> 00:09:35.320 the door that night. I don't have any memory of anyone showing up and 136 00:09:35.399 --> 00:09:39.679 claiming to be Uncle Joe. That Wendy is the sole source of that story, 137 00:09:39.120 --> 00:09:43.120 and this seems to be the version that she's sticking to, and she's 138 00:09:43.159 --> 00:09:46.159 never really clarified why there's such discrepancies in her story. So it might be 139 00:09:46.240 --> 00:09:50.039 that back in nineteen eighty six, maybe her mother coached her to say certain 140 00:09:50.080 --> 00:09:56.159 things. Maybe, But I also think that our memories can shift and change 141 00:09:56.159 --> 00:09:58.879 over time. They're more fluid than we would like to think. We look 142 00:10:00.080 --> 00:10:03.639 back and go a lot wasn't an accurate memory. I mean, I'm just 143 00:10:03.679 --> 00:10:07.919 more inclined to think that the initial memory would be the correct memory because it 144 00:10:09.080 --> 00:10:13.879 is so close after that event. And then as you become older, you're 145 00:10:13.879 --> 00:10:16.960 reading all this information about your sister's case, You're hearing about different statements. 146 00:10:18.000 --> 00:10:24.120 It's so easy to have that influence your memories without even knowing that it's doing 147 00:10:24.159 --> 00:10:28.759 so. So I really have no idea what's the truth and what happened here, 148 00:10:28.120 --> 00:10:35.399 But I definitely think that Emo and Ron are like creepy af and that 149 00:10:35.519 --> 00:10:39.559 there seems to be a strong likelihood that they must have had something to do 150 00:10:39.639 --> 00:10:43.240 with this, because she goes missing after the creepy friend who never comes around 151 00:10:43.240 --> 00:10:48.039 again, who used to spend all the time there was there with his friend, 152 00:10:48.039 --> 00:10:50.840 who comes over and like, what's the purpose you have? Some little 153 00:10:50.840 --> 00:10:54.039 girl comes sit on your knee and you bring her these gifts, Like she's 154 00:10:54.279 --> 00:10:58.320 a girl, a girlfriend that you're courting, it's a little bit weird unless 155 00:10:58.440 --> 00:11:03.440 your aiding Penny and you're trying to get in there with her daughters. But 156 00:11:03.480 --> 00:11:05.759 in that case, you would be spreading the leve around and not just focusing 157 00:11:05.799 --> 00:11:11.559 on Antonette exactly. And there's no indication that Penny and Emo were ever dating. 158 00:11:11.559 --> 00:11:13.039 I don't think she really knew the guy all that well. She only 159 00:11:13.120 --> 00:11:16.480 knew him through Ron and in this one night, he just suddenly shows up 160 00:11:16.480 --> 00:11:20.720 there alone with gifts for Antonette. And you'd think that if Penny was just 161 00:11:20.799 --> 00:11:26.440 completely oblivious or just suspected anything about Emo, that when her daughter turned up 162 00:11:26.480 --> 00:11:30.519 missing, that would be the first person she pointed to when she spoke to 163 00:11:30.559 --> 00:11:33.799 the police, saying, this very weird guy was acting inappropriately around my daughter 164 00:11:33.840 --> 00:11:37.559 the previous night. You should instantly look at him. Yet she never voluntarily 165 00:11:37.600 --> 00:11:41.519 submitted this information to the police. It was only three days later where another 166 00:11:41.559 --> 00:11:46.000 relative said in a conversation, what about that EMO guy who showed up that 167 00:11:46.120 --> 00:11:48.679 night, that Penny finally came clean and told the police about him. So 168 00:11:48.720 --> 00:11:52.120 it makes you wonder that if she had no knowledge about what happened to Penny, 169 00:11:52.159 --> 00:11:58.039 why was she not willingly sharing this information about Emo much earlier. That 170 00:11:58.240 --> 00:12:03.799 is super suspicious. I mean, we've seen instances in different cases where over 171 00:12:03.840 --> 00:12:07.159 the years, people have done crazy things like trade their children for drugs. 172 00:12:07.799 --> 00:12:13.639 There is a potential in a situation like this that she may Petty, may 173 00:12:13.639 --> 00:12:18.320 have colluded with Emo. There may have been some kind of money or goods 174 00:12:18.360 --> 00:12:22.919 that exchanged hands. Because I can come up with no other plausible explanation for 175 00:12:24.480 --> 00:12:26.720 if she had nothing to do with it, or if she didn't benefit from 176 00:12:26.720 --> 00:12:31.559 it in some way, how his name wouldn't have been the first name raised. 177 00:12:31.120 --> 00:12:35.919 That just puts up literally every red flag for me. I hate having 178 00:12:35.960 --> 00:12:39.000 to look at family members and I hate having to even entertain the possibility the 179 00:12:39.120 --> 00:12:43.600 Penny may in some way be responsible for what happened to Antonette. But this 180 00:12:43.799 --> 00:12:48.279 is like the one thing that I just cannot let go of. Why would 181 00:12:48.320 --> 00:12:50.799 he not be the one person that you'd go he showed a special interest in 182 00:12:50.840 --> 00:12:54.879 my daughter, Now my daughter's gone. He was just there. Look at 183 00:12:54.960 --> 00:12:58.759 him hard. Well, brace yourself, because it's going to get even more 184 00:13:00.159 --> 00:13:03.039 fishes for Penny, and it's going to make the whole situation even more confusing, 185 00:13:03.440 --> 00:13:07.320 because once again we're going to get another version of events that supposedly took 186 00:13:07.320 --> 00:13:11.679 place at the house that night. All right, let's go okay. So 187 00:13:11.720 --> 00:13:16.559 the original story from Penny is that she went to bed at three am and 188 00:13:16.720 --> 00:13:20.519 saw Antonette's sleeping, and then when she woke up four hours later, Antonette 189 00:13:20.600 --> 00:13:22.799 was gone, and she had no idea what happened. It was not until 190 00:13:22.879 --> 00:13:26.960 nineteen ninety four when she was interviewed by the FBI, and then she suddenly 191 00:13:28.039 --> 00:13:31.480 changed her story, saying that at one point during the night she heard some 192 00:13:31.600 --> 00:13:35.600 knocking at the door and said that she actually told Antonette to go ahead and 193 00:13:35.679 --> 00:13:39.440 answer it. And her exact quote was, I laid there for a period 194 00:13:39.440 --> 00:13:43.000 of time, maybe thirty minutes, and Antonette never came back. I got 195 00:13:43.080 --> 00:13:46.080 up to see where she was, but I couldn't find her. Of course, 196 00:13:46.120 --> 00:13:50.240 this doesn't make a lot of sense because this supposedly took place between like 197 00:13:50.360 --> 00:13:54.200 three and four am. She told the FBI that the knock came about thirty 198 00:13:54.200 --> 00:13:56.639 minutes before it just started getting light outside. But as you well know, 199 00:13:56.840 --> 00:14:01.720 it's not going to get light between three and four or thirty am in New 200 00:14:01.759 --> 00:14:05.799 Mexico in April, So that just showed that she's just changing her story and 201 00:14:07.480 --> 00:14:09.960 cause some major red flags to go off in some alarm bells with the fai 202 00:14:11.360 --> 00:14:16.440 that she's not telling everything that she's supposed to. Yeah, she's failing a 203 00:14:16.519 --> 00:14:20.639 polygraph with them first off, which we know polygraphs aren't always reliable. But 204 00:14:20.919 --> 00:14:26.120 when you look at the totality of evidence here and with Penny, we've got 205 00:14:26.120 --> 00:14:30.320 a shifting narrative. Yeah, I don't think the sun is coming up that 206 00:14:30.399 --> 00:14:33.559 early, And if it's happening between three and four, didn't you stay up 207 00:14:33.639 --> 00:14:37.320 until three? So I'm just a little bit confused with her timeline and by 208 00:14:37.320 --> 00:14:41.399 the fluidity of her story. It doesn't seem to be the same story. 209 00:14:41.480 --> 00:14:46.519 It seems to be fictitious in the sense that if the story is true, 210 00:14:46.879 --> 00:14:50.720 if you're saying something that is based in fact, certain details might change. 211 00:14:50.759 --> 00:14:54.480 You may remember something else as you're telling it. But like I said earlier, 212 00:14:54.960 --> 00:15:01.360 the main story stays the same, and we aren't seeing that here exactly. 213 00:15:01.519 --> 00:15:03.600 Even if it was, if this wasn't contradicting your previous story. A 214 00:15:03.639 --> 00:15:07.559 lot of the details she's sharing now seem pretty bizarre because she says I heard 215 00:15:07.559 --> 00:15:09.799 a knock in the middle of the night between three and four am, and 216 00:15:09.840 --> 00:15:13.000 instead of getting up to get the door myself, I tell my nine year 217 00:15:13.039 --> 00:15:16.759 old daughter to go see it is and she doesn't come back for thirty minutes, 218 00:15:16.799 --> 00:15:20.159 and I just lay there without getting suspicious, Like what kind of mother 219 00:15:20.200 --> 00:15:24.159 would do that? Yeah, it just sounds like total like bs, I 220 00:15:24.240 --> 00:15:28.159 don't think that. I mean, you'd have to be pretty drunk or pretty 221 00:15:28.240 --> 00:15:33.919 hung over to tell your child to go get the door at that time, 222 00:15:33.080 --> 00:15:37.480 especially if you'd been drinking at the bar. It could be one of the 223 00:15:37.480 --> 00:15:41.879 people you were drinking with. You could be potentially putting your child in a 224 00:15:41.000 --> 00:15:46.240 very dangerous situation because anyone that's coming over at that time, what do they 225 00:15:46.320 --> 00:15:52.279 want? Nothing good? You know, it's either an emergency or they want 226 00:15:52.360 --> 00:15:56.919 something like between the hours of what she's saying between three and four, So, 227 00:15:58.200 --> 00:16:00.120 I mean, what do they want? Do they want to drink with 228 00:16:00.159 --> 00:16:03.039 you? Or are they looking for something else so they're looking for some physical 229 00:16:03.080 --> 00:16:07.000 contact. Either way, you could be putting your child in the path of 230 00:16:07.039 --> 00:16:12.159 harm and you just don't even think to go check on her. After like 231 00:16:12.240 --> 00:16:15.559 a minute, she goes to get the door, there's a knock, and 232 00:16:15.600 --> 00:16:21.320 then nothing for thirty minutes, you just all like lasadaisical, laying in bed, 233 00:16:21.440 --> 00:16:25.759 just chill. I just don't think this sounds like a real scenario, 234 00:16:26.440 --> 00:16:30.759 unless it was a scenario that you had set up yourself and you were like, 235 00:16:30.799 --> 00:16:33.360 Okay, this is the way that it's going to play out, not 236 00:16:33.399 --> 00:16:37.639 realizing how suspicious it sounds to anybody that you would send your nine year old 237 00:16:37.720 --> 00:16:41.039 daughter to get the door and then not check on her when she doesn't return 238 00:16:41.919 --> 00:16:45.679 exactly, and rest assured the FBI agents who heard this story had the same 239 00:16:45.720 --> 00:16:51.000 suspicions you did and pretty much gave off the same reaction. So as you 240 00:16:51.039 --> 00:16:55.320 can imagine, they started pushing her more, interrogating her hard, and apparently 241 00:16:55.360 --> 00:16:59.759 at one point the FBI told her we have information that you were directly involved, 242 00:17:00.080 --> 00:17:03.639 even though they were probably bluffing her. But then Penny responded by saying 243 00:17:03.639 --> 00:17:06.839 the words quote, what if I told you Emo and I did this, 244 00:17:07.039 --> 00:17:11.079 would we both go to prison? And then she apparently made like a confession 245 00:17:11.119 --> 00:17:15.519 where she said that she and Emo got together on a plan and advised Emo 246 00:17:15.599 --> 00:17:18.559 and Ron that Antonette was going to be a problem and that she wanted to 247 00:17:18.559 --> 00:17:22.359 get rid of her and maybe make a better life for and he. Apparently 248 00:17:22.599 --> 00:17:27.079 she advised Emo that he would be the person to take Antonette away, and 249 00:17:27.279 --> 00:17:32.000 apparently, like a Penny said that she tried to ask Ron about this, 250 00:17:32.559 --> 00:17:34.359 what are they going to take or what's going to happen for and Ron responded, 251 00:17:34.480 --> 00:17:38.920 it's better you do not know. So this was a major WTF moment 252 00:17:38.960 --> 00:17:45.839 when Crystal Gautiera's got these FBI files because apparently Penny is flat out confessing that 253 00:17:45.920 --> 00:17:48.759 she gave her daughter away to Emo, hoping that she would do it to 254 00:17:48.759 --> 00:17:52.039 give her a better life, and for some reason this wasn't acted upon and 255 00:17:52.400 --> 00:17:57.359 Penny was not charged with the crime. I'm literally pulling my hair right now. 256 00:17:57.400 --> 00:18:00.599 Like credit goes for credit, it's due. Good for you, Crystal 257 00:18:00.680 --> 00:18:06.680 if you're listening to this, because wow, that is some incendiary information. 258 00:18:07.519 --> 00:18:11.279 My mind is blown to think that Penny could be looked at as a suspect 259 00:18:11.400 --> 00:18:15.960 because she literally gave a confession saying that her and Emo were involved. But 260 00:18:17.119 --> 00:18:21.240 what doesn't ring true for me is her saying that Antonette's going to be a 261 00:18:21.279 --> 00:18:25.119 problem. I want to get rid of her. I just can't believe that 262 00:18:25.200 --> 00:18:27.680 you're going to get rid of your eldest child who does all this work for 263 00:18:27.720 --> 00:18:33.319 you. She's basically like a second mother to your younger daughters, and you're 264 00:18:33.319 --> 00:18:37.559 going to get rid of her for no monetary gain. I personally think in 265 00:18:37.559 --> 00:18:41.480 that situation, the one puzzle piece that seems to be missing is something that 266 00:18:41.519 --> 00:18:45.440 would benefit Penny exactly like it could have been thing that she got money for 267 00:18:45.480 --> 00:18:48.880 it. She could have gotten drugs and alcohol. I mean, if the 268 00:18:48.920 --> 00:18:52.200 story about her get driving the new sports car is true, then maybe she 269 00:18:52.319 --> 00:18:55.720 used all this money she got to buy it. But the weird thing about 270 00:18:55.759 --> 00:18:59.640 it is that Crystal Gautier as when she found this report, went to reinterview 271 00:18:59.759 --> 00:19:03.079 like the former lead investigator from the Gallant Police Department who was working the case 272 00:19:03.119 --> 00:19:07.640 in the nineteen nineties, and he said that even though the FBI sent them 273 00:19:07.680 --> 00:19:14.519 the file about Penny's interrogation, they actually removed the section where she made the 274 00:19:14.519 --> 00:19:18.480 confession, so they had no idea about it. And the investigator was like, 275 00:19:18.680 --> 00:19:21.000 why did they tell us about this? Because if I had seen this 276 00:19:21.039 --> 00:19:23.880 confession, I might have been inclined to file charges against her, or at 277 00:19:23.880 --> 00:19:27.839 the very least like really interrogate her enough that maybe she would finally spill the 278 00:19:27.839 --> 00:19:33.400 beans and tell the truth about where Antonette was, where Emo was, where 279 00:19:33.480 --> 00:19:37.000 Ron was, and finally like shed some light on this. But he had 280 00:19:37.039 --> 00:19:41.480 no idea about this until Penny passed away in nineteen ninety nine, and he's 281 00:19:41.559 --> 00:19:45.839 learning about her confession nearly thirty years after the facts. So I'm just kind 282 00:19:45.839 --> 00:19:48.039 of flummuxed by the whole situation. I'm thinking that there there has to be 283 00:19:48.079 --> 00:19:52.720 more to this story, that maybe it wasn't a direct confession, where maybe 284 00:19:52.759 --> 00:19:56.519 Penny was just like pushing forward a hypothetical situation where it's like if I had 285 00:19:56.559 --> 00:20:00.480 done this, or if I had done that, what would theoretic be my 286 00:20:00.559 --> 00:20:03.079 punishment? And they just did not feel it was strong enough evidence to file 287 00:20:03.200 --> 00:20:07.839 charges. But it's just so frustrating because if law enforcement had known this information, 288 00:20:07.880 --> 00:20:11.839 well Penny was still alive, this case might have been solved by now. 289 00:20:11.680 --> 00:20:15.559 Why would you exclude that though? I just don't understand why they would 290 00:20:15.559 --> 00:20:21.400 exclude that from the Gallup Police department, because I think that could be pertinent 291 00:20:21.440 --> 00:20:25.359 information even if it isn't strong enough to hold up in court. If it 292 00:20:25.400 --> 00:20:29.319 was like a total oj situation, if I did it, then at least 293 00:20:29.359 --> 00:20:33.119 they could go off of it going, hey, this is your most viable 294 00:20:33.200 --> 00:20:37.359 suspect here, Penny and Emo, and then this Ron guy. You know, 295 00:20:37.480 --> 00:20:41.680 he could have played middleman. So you've got these three people who you 296 00:20:41.759 --> 00:20:47.680 need to be laser focused on. But yet by excluding that part about Penny 297 00:20:47.799 --> 00:20:52.400 saying all of this information, all of the most important and incriminating information that 298 00:20:52.519 --> 00:20:57.880 could have allowed them to then interrogate Penny themselves and lean on her hard and 299 00:20:57.920 --> 00:21:03.039 hopefully garner a confession of their own that they could then take to court and 300 00:21:03.079 --> 00:21:08.039 file charges. This is just so so frustrating because all of these things that 301 00:21:08.160 --> 00:21:12.119 didn't happen. If Annette was alive and well somewhere, it could have led 302 00:21:12.160 --> 00:21:17.839 to her rescue. But the fact that it didn't happen, who knows what 303 00:21:17.960 --> 00:21:22.039 happened to her? It is just my mind is blown. Exactly like pretty 304 00:21:22.079 --> 00:21:25.880 much the true crime world, people who are familiar with this case have given 305 00:21:25.920 --> 00:21:29.920 up the same reaction these past a few weeks when all this information came out, 306 00:21:29.960 --> 00:21:33.319 like how did they botch this up so badly? And it makes me 307 00:21:33.359 --> 00:21:37.759 wonder if like there's something missing here that maybe the FBI did something like violated 308 00:21:37.200 --> 00:21:42.559 Penny civil rights or something, or did something unethical ethical during the interrogation so 309 00:21:42.599 --> 00:21:45.880 that or confession would not be admissible. But there really doesn't seem to be 310 00:21:45.920 --> 00:21:52.160 any logical reason why they would withhold this information from the Gallop PD, unless 311 00:21:52.160 --> 00:21:55.920 maybe it was a jurisdictional thing where they wanted the credit for solving this case 312 00:21:55.960 --> 00:21:59.839 and not this small town police department. But and that makes a lot more 313 00:21:59.839 --> 00:22:03.480 sense though finding out that the FBI wanted to question Penny on her deathbed because 314 00:22:03.480 --> 00:22:07.000 they all obviously had their eyes on her and just did not have the evidence 315 00:22:07.039 --> 00:22:11.519 to do anything. So they were probably hoping that maybe she'll want to make 316 00:22:11.559 --> 00:22:15.200 a deathbed confession and spell everything, but they just couldn't get to her in 317 00:22:15.240 --> 00:22:18.640 time before she passed away. But like, couldn't they have gone off the 318 00:22:18.720 --> 00:22:22.559 record to Gallop if they weren't going to file federal charges, then they could 319 00:22:22.599 --> 00:22:26.319 have gone to Gallop and say, hey, we have this confession. We 320 00:22:26.359 --> 00:22:30.039 can't give it to you because we got it by unethical means. You know, 321 00:22:30.240 --> 00:22:34.519 she wasn't mirandas whatever it was, and so we can't give this to 322 00:22:34.559 --> 00:22:37.920 you, but we're going to tell you this is what happened. You can't 323 00:22:38.160 --> 00:22:44.079 use this information in any official way in your investigation or in court proceedings. 324 00:22:44.279 --> 00:22:47.720 But what you can use this information to you is to get more information from 325 00:22:47.720 --> 00:22:52.680 the suspects. The fact that they didn't do that is just it's infuriating and 326 00:22:52.720 --> 00:22:57.519 it's mind boggling exactly. And what's even more frustrating is that Crystal Gutierrez has 327 00:22:57.519 --> 00:23:03.599 been trying to find information about ron Perry and Miliano Gardella aka EMO, but 328 00:23:03.920 --> 00:23:08.400 they're current whereabouts are unknown because I think Ronald Perry is a fairly common name, 329 00:23:08.519 --> 00:23:11.640 and as far as I know, she hasn't been able to dig up 330 00:23:11.680 --> 00:23:15.240 anything about EMO. So these are the two people who may know the full 331 00:23:15.279 --> 00:23:18.839 truth about what happened, but it's been thirty seven years, so we can't 332 00:23:18.880 --> 00:23:22.359 even be certain if they're still alive. So that's why I'm kind of hoping 333 00:23:22.400 --> 00:23:25.279 now that all this new information has come out, that it will jump start 334 00:23:25.279 --> 00:23:29.839 the investigation and that law enforcement will go all out trying to find these guys 335 00:23:30.160 --> 00:23:36.079 or reinterview everybody and maybe find some answers about what happened to Antonette. I 336 00:23:36.200 --> 00:23:40.920 really hope. So they really should spare no expense because I feel like Antonette 337 00:23:41.000 --> 00:23:45.559 fell through the cracks. They had a very viable suspect in Penny. If 338 00:23:45.599 --> 00:23:48.759 she did indeed couldn't fastin it wasn't and if I did it, even if 339 00:23:48.759 --> 00:23:52.720 it was a hypothetical, if I did it, that's all we get from 340 00:23:52.759 --> 00:23:56.720 OJ. But I think we all know he did it in my opinion, 341 00:23:56.559 --> 00:24:02.319 so I don't know. This case is just boggling my mind. I'm just 342 00:24:02.480 --> 00:24:06.200 in shock that this amount of time could go by. You guys want to 343 00:24:06.279 --> 00:24:08.839 question him on his death or you want to question Penny on her deathbed, 344 00:24:10.319 --> 00:24:15.759 But yet you couldn't have slipped this info to the Gallant police years ago before 345 00:24:15.839 --> 00:24:18.160 Penny, at the age of forty six, is dying of Cerrosi's deliver in 346 00:24:18.200 --> 00:24:22.759 cardiac issues. I feel like this should have been shared at an earlier date, 347 00:24:23.240 --> 00:24:29.680 way before, so that it's Antonette was indeed alive, that you could 348 00:24:29.799 --> 00:24:33.440 preserve that life. You could find her, you could bring her home so 349 00:24:33.480 --> 00:24:37.400 that she could have a semblance of a real life, not in captivity. 350 00:24:37.960 --> 00:24:44.440 I'm just like, it makes me really angry that this little girl didn't get 351 00:24:44.480 --> 00:24:48.160 the attention that she had deserved here and she was a victim in this situation. 352 00:24:48.799 --> 00:24:55.119 Her mother held the key to what happened allegedly, and so I just 353 00:24:55.240 --> 00:24:57.920 I don't know why that wasn't pursued further by the FBI, why that information 354 00:24:59.000 --> 00:25:03.759 wasn't shared. This is just breaking my heart exactly. And if the story 355 00:25:03.799 --> 00:25:07.519 about Emo is true, then I don't think that he was planning to abduct 356 00:25:07.559 --> 00:25:11.000 Antonette just for the purpose of killing her right away. Like she probably went 357 00:25:11.039 --> 00:25:15.559 through hell. She was probably sexually assaulted and groomed if she was in captivity 358 00:25:15.599 --> 00:25:18.880 with him, But I don't think he would have killed her instantly. So 359 00:25:18.960 --> 00:25:21.759 there would have been a span of at least a couple of years where she 360 00:25:21.799 --> 00:25:25.559 may have still been alive and could have been rescued if Penny had been more 361 00:25:25.640 --> 00:25:29.799 forthcoming or the authorities had been willing to share more information. I mean, 362 00:25:29.839 --> 00:25:32.720 I don't know if Antonett would have still been alive in nineteen ninety four. 363 00:25:33.279 --> 00:25:36.559 She would have been I think sixteen years old or eighteen years old at that 364 00:25:36.599 --> 00:25:38.920 time, so I guess it would have been a possibility, And I guess 365 00:25:38.920 --> 00:25:44.200 there is a slim possibility she could still be alive today that maybe she broke 366 00:25:44.240 --> 00:25:48.640 away from Emo but she just decided not to return from her family or resurface, 367 00:25:48.799 --> 00:25:51.839 or maybe she could have been brainwashed or something so that she doesn't know 368 00:25:51.920 --> 00:25:56.480 her identity and she's living somewhere else under a new name somewhere, So I 369 00:25:56.519 --> 00:26:00.880 guess there is a slim chance she might still be alive at age of I 370 00:26:00.920 --> 00:26:04.079 think it would be forty seven right now. But when you think about, 371 00:26:04.160 --> 00:26:07.720 like what the authorities could have done if all this information had gone public many 372 00:26:07.799 --> 00:26:12.559 years ago, and it's all the more frustrating. I hope and pray that 373 00:26:12.599 --> 00:26:18.799 Antonette is still alive somewhere and that she's somehow been able to escape her captors 374 00:26:18.799 --> 00:26:22.720 and carve out a beautiful life for herself. But I agree with you, 375 00:26:22.799 --> 00:26:26.440 I think the probability of that is low because of the inaction of law enforcement. 376 00:26:26.480 --> 00:26:30.000 And I also agree that I think that when Emo took her, if 377 00:26:30.000 --> 00:26:33.799 he did indeed take her and it played out the way that Penny said that 378 00:26:33.880 --> 00:26:37.559 it did, it would have been for some kind of nefarious purposes. It 379 00:26:37.599 --> 00:26:42.319 would have been too who knows. He might not have been into a child 380 00:26:42.440 --> 00:26:45.039 at the age of nine, but he could have seen potential, and he 381 00:26:45.079 --> 00:26:48.440 could have, you know, like you said, been grooming her until she 382 00:26:48.519 --> 00:26:51.319 was twelve or something or thirteen, and that might have been the age that 383 00:26:51.400 --> 00:26:56.319 he liked. Or he could just strictly have been a pedophile who preferred children 384 00:26:56.400 --> 00:27:00.880 of a very narrow band of ages, and by the time she was eleven 385 00:27:00.920 --> 00:27:03.640 she could have aged out. Or you could have somebody that could just be 386 00:27:03.680 --> 00:27:07.400 a sexual predator and it doesn't really matter what age they are, like the 387 00:27:07.759 --> 00:27:15.799 guy who is accused of taking Madeline McCann, where he's sexually assaulted the elderly 388 00:27:15.960 --> 00:27:19.200 but also young children as well. So here's my theory about what I think 389 00:27:19.279 --> 00:27:23.559 happened now that we've heard this new story from Sadie about how when Penny got 390 00:27:23.599 --> 00:27:27.319 home, she sent Sadie and Wendy to bed and said that I'm going to 391 00:27:27.359 --> 00:27:32.200 be up at night playing cards with Antonette. I think she was planning for 392 00:27:32.240 --> 00:27:34.480 Emo to stop by and that's when she would hand her over to him, 393 00:27:34.759 --> 00:27:37.680 and then she would wake up the following morning with this story about, oh, 394 00:27:37.759 --> 00:27:41.200 I went to bed and Antonette was here, but then when I woke 395 00:27:41.279 --> 00:27:45.400 up, she was gone. But I think the complication came when Roger showed 396 00:27:45.480 --> 00:27:48.720 up in the middle of the night knocking on the door, because that woke 397 00:27:48.799 --> 00:27:52.400 up Wendy and Sadie, and I think I don't know if Antonette still would 398 00:27:52.400 --> 00:27:55.680 have been there at that time, but I think that Penny probably knew that 399 00:27:56.119 --> 00:27:59.000 the police are going to ask who was knocking on the door in the middle 400 00:27:59.000 --> 00:28:00.960 of the night, and I think she might have fed a cover story to 401 00:28:02.039 --> 00:28:04.720 her children that maybe she said to Sadie, tell them that you saw anton 402 00:28:04.759 --> 00:28:08.400 and answering the door for an aunt and uncle, but she decided not to 403 00:28:08.400 --> 00:28:11.759 open it. And then years later she told Wendy, if anyone asks you 404 00:28:11.799 --> 00:28:15.799 about that knock on the door in the middle of the night, tell them 405 00:28:15.799 --> 00:28:18.480 it was someone claiming it was Uncle Joe and that he opened the door and 406 00:28:18.599 --> 00:28:22.200 kidnapper. And then we can push forward this idea that she was abducted by 407 00:28:22.240 --> 00:28:26.839 force from the house in the middle of the night. So but I think 408 00:28:26.880 --> 00:28:29.359 that if Roger hadn't shown up and knocked on the door, I think there 409 00:28:29.359 --> 00:28:32.480 would be a lot more mystery to there, because I think the two other 410 00:28:32.519 --> 00:28:34.279 kids would have slept through the night. Penny would have just said that I 411 00:28:34.319 --> 00:28:38.000 woke up and Antonette was gone. But because this guy showed up and there 412 00:28:38.000 --> 00:28:41.880 was a knock, I think that complicated the investigation and probably explained why we've 413 00:28:41.880 --> 00:28:47.960 had so many inconsistent stories and different versions of events over the past thirty seven 414 00:28:48.039 --> 00:28:52.200 years. I guess that totally would make sense. You've got Penny who goes 415 00:28:52.279 --> 00:28:56.680 and gets really really drunk, and I guess that could be an explanation she's 416 00:28:56.680 --> 00:29:00.319 been at the bar. I didn't wake up kind of deal. But like, 417 00:29:00.559 --> 00:29:03.359 that also doesn't seem in alignment with I stayed up till three am playing 418 00:29:03.440 --> 00:29:07.240 cards unless somebody comes back from the bar and they're going to be like doing 419 00:29:07.279 --> 00:29:11.640 a bunch of cocaine or something. I don't think that, like the motivation 420 00:29:11.720 --> 00:29:14.839 just to sit up with your kids is going to keep you up until three 421 00:29:14.880 --> 00:29:18.720 am. I think you're probably right. She probably had this plan, send 422 00:29:18.720 --> 00:29:22.279 the younger girls to bed, keep end to net up playing cards, and 423 00:29:22.319 --> 00:29:26.559 then Roger kind of foils the plan by waking up the girls who should have 424 00:29:26.599 --> 00:29:30.279 just been sleeping through the whole thing. She probably would have made it seamless 425 00:29:30.640 --> 00:29:34.359 in letting Emo in, and then this just creates this complication where there's like 426 00:29:34.359 --> 00:29:40.480 this cascade of divergent narratives that none of them seem to quite fit, and 427 00:29:40.519 --> 00:29:44.519 it's hard to see exactly where the truth is, and I think it's hard 428 00:29:44.519 --> 00:29:48.119 to see where the truth is with both Sadie and Wendy as well. I 429 00:29:48.160 --> 00:29:52.799 think there probably is some confusion as to what is what exactly did happen, 430 00:29:53.119 --> 00:29:57.480 and what has been the influence of outside forces, whether it be Penny, 431 00:29:57.599 --> 00:30:02.920 law enforcement, stuff in the media, so on and so forth type of 432 00:30:02.960 --> 00:30:07.119 deal. It just I'm so frustrated that this wasn't handled differently, like if 433 00:30:07.160 --> 00:30:11.720 you like, they had such an opportunity to be able to rescue Antonette and 434 00:30:11.799 --> 00:30:17.920 to be able to hold those people accountable who were responsible for what happened to 435 00:30:17.960 --> 00:30:23.079 her, but they just they failed. And what's even crazier is that I've 436 00:30:23.119 --> 00:30:26.200 heard that nine one one call like so many times over the years, like 437 00:30:26.200 --> 00:30:30.200 it has haunted me ever since I watched the Unsolved Mysteries episode back in nineteen 438 00:30:30.279 --> 00:30:33.440 ninety two. But now that I know all this new information, I'm looking 439 00:30:33.480 --> 00:30:37.279 at it in a completely different light. I Mean, some people have speculated 440 00:30:37.319 --> 00:30:41.039 that it could have been a prank, that maybe a Penny like coursed another 441 00:30:41.200 --> 00:30:45.359 kid to make this fight fake phone call in order to give off the false 442 00:30:45.400 --> 00:30:48.240 impression that Antonette was still alive and had been kidnapped. But if that was 443 00:30:48.359 --> 00:30:52.039 legitimate, and that she was an Emo's captivity at that time and was trying 444 00:30:52.039 --> 00:30:56.839 to escape, and you can only imagine what Penny would have been thinking when 445 00:30:56.839 --> 00:30:59.880 she heard it, where it's like she claimed she doesn't recognize the voice of 446 00:31:00.079 --> 00:31:03.400 the guy in the background, but she may have known this is Emo all 447 00:31:03.440 --> 00:31:07.039 along and then just decided to stay silent about it. So who knows. 448 00:31:07.079 --> 00:31:10.559 Maybe that's what led her down her self destructive lifestyle where she hears her daughter 449 00:31:10.640 --> 00:31:14.640 crying out for help but knows that she can't say anything, and it causes 450 00:31:14.680 --> 00:31:17.319 just so much pain and grief. For that, she decides to go into 451 00:31:17.400 --> 00:31:21.319 drinking and drugs, and then she dies at a very young age and goes 452 00:31:21.359 --> 00:31:23.880 around to like flat out confessing at one point, even though it did lead 453 00:31:23.920 --> 00:31:27.640 to the case being resolved. Well, I think she likely had a substance 454 00:31:27.640 --> 00:31:34.039 abuse disorder prior to this, and it just accelerated and exacerbated her disease because 455 00:31:34.799 --> 00:31:38.119 somebody who comes from a background that was traumatic and I'm going to go out 456 00:31:38.119 --> 00:31:42.400 on a limb knowing nothing about Penny and her backstory that she likely dealt with 457 00:31:42.400 --> 00:31:47.640 some trauma. Just by the way that she parented her children. She did 458 00:31:47.680 --> 00:31:52.359 not seem like she was a very present or responsible mother in a lot of 459 00:31:52.359 --> 00:31:56.160 ways, and if this is indeed true, we can say for a fact 460 00:31:56.200 --> 00:32:00.559 that she wasn't. So yeah, one thing I'm wondering is that I really 461 00:32:00.599 --> 00:32:04.319 want to see Wendy speak out again now that Sadie has gone on the record, 462 00:32:04.359 --> 00:32:06.920 because, like I said, I don't know if they're still estranged after 463 00:32:06.960 --> 00:32:09.759 all these years, but Wendy has always told like this one version of events 464 00:32:09.839 --> 00:32:14.759 for so long about like this Uncle Joe knock and whatnot, So I'd really 465 00:32:14.759 --> 00:32:16.799 love to hear what she says now that Sadie has gone on the record and 466 00:32:16.880 --> 00:32:20.640 told a different version of the truth. I mean, does Wendy have more 467 00:32:20.680 --> 00:32:23.920 information that she is not disclosed that could help provide some more insight on what 468 00:32:24.000 --> 00:32:28.400 happened. But then again, you hear that Wendy has gone through trauma of 469 00:32:28.400 --> 00:32:30.880 her own with issues with substance abuse, and so she may not have a 470 00:32:30.880 --> 00:32:34.839 clear memory of what happened. But at the very least, I do hope 471 00:32:34.880 --> 00:32:39.240 that this new revelation at the very least helps maybe Sadie and Wendy reconcile and 472 00:32:39.319 --> 00:32:43.400 maybe get peace, and maybe they can kind of work together to try to 473 00:32:43.400 --> 00:32:46.279 figure out what happened to their missing sister. I really hope that the two 474 00:32:46.279 --> 00:32:53.160 sisters can come together. There's something about experiencing a situation like that which there's 475 00:32:53.240 --> 00:32:58.240 trauma bonding, and I think that we saw that with Penny and with Wendy, 476 00:32:58.359 --> 00:33:01.079 and the fact that they would drink together or get high together and they 477 00:33:01.079 --> 00:33:07.200 would commiserate over what happened to Antonette. But I do find it interesting that 478 00:33:07.319 --> 00:33:13.039 Wendy never seems to have like straight out asked Penny if her mother knew what 479 00:33:13.119 --> 00:33:15.799 happened to Antonete, or doesn't seem like she's disclosed that if she did do 480 00:33:15.839 --> 00:33:20.559 that, Sometimes people don't ask questions they don't want to know the answer to. 481 00:33:21.599 --> 00:33:23.200 Yeah, I'd be curious about that, because she specifically said that they 482 00:33:23.240 --> 00:33:27.519 got high and they got drunk together during the nineteen nineties. So it makes 483 00:33:27.519 --> 00:33:30.680 me wonder if she if Penny ever disclosed anything to her which may be worsened 484 00:33:30.920 --> 00:33:34.960 Wendy's issues, or Wendy was just just saying that I don't want to know, 485 00:33:35.039 --> 00:33:38.039 so I'm not going to ask the questions. It's a really unhealthy dynamic 486 00:33:38.119 --> 00:33:44.559 when you have parents using with their children, when both of them are clearly 487 00:33:44.839 --> 00:33:50.359 alcoholics or addicts in some capacity. But they both experienced this great trauma, 488 00:33:50.440 --> 00:33:54.960 And I really I am so happy that Wendy's story turned out differently than Penny's, 489 00:33:55.000 --> 00:34:00.039 and that Wendy got sober, got her ish together, and was able 490 00:34:00.039 --> 00:34:05.880 to be there for her children, to reconcile with her husband, and to 491 00:34:06.039 --> 00:34:08.840 just live a different life than the path that her mother chose. I think 492 00:34:08.840 --> 00:34:13.079 that guilt may have had something to do with it. Like you've said throughout 493 00:34:13.079 --> 00:34:19.639 as well, that if one is guilty, to continue to punish oneself through 494 00:34:19.880 --> 00:34:25.559 drinking, through drugs, through unhealthy lifestyle is one way that human beings will 495 00:34:25.639 --> 00:34:30.800 kind of actualize their guilt. Right. It's like, I am guilty, 496 00:34:30.880 --> 00:34:36.039 so therefore I'm going to punish myself in the way that I'm killing myself in 497 00:34:36.079 --> 00:34:39.559 a very slow way. And that's what substance use disorders do, not always 498 00:34:39.559 --> 00:34:44.440 stemming from guilt, often stemming from trauma. But I think that there's multiple 499 00:34:44.440 --> 00:34:50.480 different factors that underlie why Penny had crosis to deliver and cardiac issues, and 500 00:34:50.519 --> 00:34:52.719 it was deceased at the age of forty six, like it is just so 501 00:34:52.760 --> 00:34:58.679 sad, and to also have Wendy and Sadie not only lose Antonette but prematurely 502 00:34:58.719 --> 00:35:02.280 lose their mother at such young age is also really sad. And there's one 503 00:35:02.280 --> 00:35:06.280 more thing I wanted to mention, but there's been some additional trauma in this 504 00:35:06.440 --> 00:35:09.360 family, even though it's not really directly connected to Antonette's case. Wendy and 505 00:35:09.400 --> 00:35:15.840 Sadie's biological father was a man named Anthony Montoya who passed away in twenty twelve, 506 00:35:15.199 --> 00:35:19.920 but believe it or not, Anthony actually had a sister who was technically 507 00:35:20.159 --> 00:35:23.679 their paternal aunt, who went missing just three years after Antonette did. Her 508 00:35:23.800 --> 00:35:28.800 name was Louisa Estrada. She was twenty five years old and apparently she had 509 00:35:28.800 --> 00:35:31.280 a mental disability and was described as having the mind of a young child, 510 00:35:31.760 --> 00:35:36.679 and on September the fifth, nineteen eighty nine, she vanished without a trace, 511 00:35:37.119 --> 00:35:39.599 and there aren't many details available about her case except that she was last 512 00:35:39.599 --> 00:35:44.840 seen in a park outside a Catholic church with an unidentified man who appeared to 513 00:35:44.840 --> 00:35:47.719 be in late twenties. But unfortunately, all the media coverage of her case 514 00:35:47.840 --> 00:35:52.599 just stopped after that and I have no idea if Louisa has ever been found. 515 00:35:52.000 --> 00:35:57.000 But it's kind of like the Patreon episode we recorded a few days ago 516 00:35:57.039 --> 00:36:00.840 about the disappearance of the Palmer Brothers, where you have two members of the 517 00:36:00.880 --> 00:36:04.880 same family who just both happened to go missing within three years of each other, 518 00:36:04.960 --> 00:36:07.760 and neither of them have been found. So this family has just gone 519 00:36:07.760 --> 00:36:12.440 through more trauma that any family deserves to experience. Yeah, that was a 520 00:36:12.599 --> 00:36:17.599 really heartbreaking well cases, it just seems so inexplicable that two brothers would both 521 00:36:17.639 --> 00:36:22.199 go missing and neither of their bodies are found, one under very suspicious circumstances, 522 00:36:22.320 --> 00:36:25.480 and one it made it look as though it was he just walked off 523 00:36:25.480 --> 00:36:30.800 because his snowmobile wasn't working and it was a blizzard, and his remains have 524 00:36:30.880 --> 00:36:35.679 never been found, but ten years apart. Devastated that family. And then 525 00:36:35.679 --> 00:36:38.960 we see the same thing here and with one family unit, and what are 526 00:36:38.960 --> 00:36:44.920 the chances that we're going to have Aunt Sinette disappear and then her paternal ant 527 00:36:45.039 --> 00:36:49.480 also goes missing. It just has a lot of tragedy to befall one family, 528 00:36:49.920 --> 00:36:52.880 and it just seems sometimes like once one happens, it seems like a 529 00:36:52.960 --> 00:36:58.960 family is more susceptible to almost like incurring more trauma. Do you know what 530 00:36:59.000 --> 00:37:02.719 I mean exactly. I think there's a phrase they used to refer it called 531 00:37:02.800 --> 00:37:07.320 lottery families. Were just some families who go through like one bad piece of 532 00:37:07.320 --> 00:37:09.880 bad luck after another. Then it feels like that they've like, I don't 533 00:37:09.880 --> 00:37:13.199 know why they use the term lottery, but I guess it's just kind of 534 00:37:13.239 --> 00:37:16.719 experiencing bad fortune in like the opposite direction, and I think that's what happened 535 00:37:16.719 --> 00:37:21.159 here. It's kind of a stupid name, isn't it. It feels like 536 00:37:21.599 --> 00:37:23.840 good fortune. You'd be a lottery family, right, yeah, yeah, 537 00:37:23.880 --> 00:37:27.400 So I remember reading about it on the Charlie Project, And I don't know 538 00:37:27.400 --> 00:37:31.000 why they originated that term, why it has to do with lottery. So 539 00:37:31.199 --> 00:37:36.199 anyway, I think the good news is that now that all this new information 540 00:37:36.239 --> 00:37:39.440 has come out, it could jump start the investigation. I'm really hoping that 541 00:37:39.519 --> 00:37:44.679 if Ronald Perry and Emo Gardella are still alive, they could be tracked down 542 00:37:44.679 --> 00:37:47.440 and questioned, and if Antonette is dead, at the very least they can 543 00:37:47.480 --> 00:37:52.480 reveal what happened to her and maybe lead the authorities to her remains. And 544 00:37:52.559 --> 00:37:55.480 I do hope that Wendy maybe speaks out again, maybe has a reconciliation with 545 00:37:55.519 --> 00:38:00.320 Sadie. So yeah, I think the good news about all this information is 546 00:38:00.320 --> 00:38:02.599 that, as frustrating as it is now that it's out public, I think 547 00:38:02.599 --> 00:38:06.639 it is a better chance of this case being solved. Though, like you 548 00:38:06.679 --> 00:38:07.920 said, if it had been if they had been able to act on this 549 00:38:07.960 --> 00:38:13.239 information back during the time period that Antonette was likely to still be alive, 550 00:38:13.400 --> 00:38:16.400 it would have been a lot better. Yeah. I think it's one of 551 00:38:16.440 --> 00:38:21.440 those situations where, yeah, it's great that we have this information now, 552 00:38:21.800 --> 00:38:25.559 but it's what thirty five, thirty seven years later, So the likelihood that 553 00:38:25.760 --> 00:38:31.360 Antonette is deceased I think would go up exponentially every year after she was abducted. 554 00:38:32.039 --> 00:38:36.239 So the likelihood that this many years later, that she is still alive, 555 00:38:36.559 --> 00:38:38.519 it feels like they really failed her. I mean, I hope in 556 00:38:38.599 --> 00:38:44.360 pray that she is still alive, but I think the probability is low given 557 00:38:44.440 --> 00:38:47.840 the reason that she was likely abducted. Are her captors if it was Emo, 558 00:38:49.079 --> 00:38:52.320 is he going to then let her go when she ages out, or 559 00:38:52.679 --> 00:38:55.960 would it be more advantageous for him to end her life so that she doesn't 560 00:38:55.960 --> 00:39:00.800 go and talk to law enforcement or talk to anybody about what happened to her, 561 00:39:00.960 --> 00:39:05.519 and then he risked going to jail. It's so sad and it just 562 00:39:06.079 --> 00:39:10.599 I mean, if those names are correct, Ronald Perry and Emo Gardella are 563 00:39:10.719 --> 00:39:16.039 indeed their real names, I really hope that law enforcement takes it upon themselves 564 00:39:16.280 --> 00:39:21.280 to go to the ends of the freaking earth to try to track down these 565 00:39:21.320 --> 00:39:24.679 men, to track down their next of kin, anybody close to them, 566 00:39:25.360 --> 00:39:29.320 figure out where they were living. Is there somewhere that she could have been 567 00:39:29.360 --> 00:39:35.119 held, Get any information that you possibly can so that you can give Sadie 568 00:39:35.159 --> 00:39:40.360 and Wendy some answers about what happened to Antonette, this poor poor family. 569 00:39:42.079 --> 00:39:45.960 I really hope that law enforcement invests the time and the money, because I 570 00:39:45.960 --> 00:39:49.199 would think time is running out at this point. I don't know how old 571 00:39:49.239 --> 00:39:52.679 Emo and ron were then, but they're getting to be old men at this 572 00:39:52.760 --> 00:39:57.159 point. So I hope that they really have a fire lit under their behinds 573 00:39:57.280 --> 00:40:01.360 and they get to it quickly, because this should have been pursued years ago. 574 00:40:01.679 --> 00:40:05.960 They had the information to go off of, and the failure to act, 575 00:40:06.000 --> 00:40:08.840 the failure to disclose this to the Gallant police is just going to be 576 00:40:08.880 --> 00:40:12.599 like my biggest frustration for the week, and I'm going to continue to think 577 00:40:12.599 --> 00:40:16.440 about this because it just breaks my heart that poor Antonette could have been saved 578 00:40:16.519 --> 00:40:22.079 in my opinion, and just the ball was dropped. Yeah, exactly. 579 00:40:22.079 --> 00:40:27.400 You've pretty much expressed the same thoughts as the entire true crime community who has 580 00:40:27.440 --> 00:40:30.679 learned about these new revelations in the case these past few weeks. In closing, 581 00:40:30.719 --> 00:40:35.199 I'll just mention that this case has haunted me for over thirty years now. 582 00:40:35.239 --> 00:40:37.119 I was still a young pup when I watched this on Unsolved Mysteries and 583 00:40:37.199 --> 00:40:40.800 that nine one one call when I heard it, absolutely terrified me. But 584 00:40:40.880 --> 00:40:45.679 it's such a weird feeling when you suddenly learn new information about a case that 585 00:40:45.760 --> 00:40:50.159 you've known about for so long and thought you had an encyclopedic knowledge of and 586 00:40:50.199 --> 00:40:53.039 then this new information just like turns everything upside down and causes you to look 587 00:40:53.079 --> 00:40:57.360 at the case in a different light. And this is exactly what happened here. 588 00:40:57.400 --> 00:41:00.519 I even revisited the Unsolved Mysteries episode before I recorded this, and it 589 00:41:00.679 --> 00:41:05.119 is just so weird to watch now knowing all the new information that I know 590 00:41:05.239 --> 00:41:07.559 right now, and I'm thinking that everything I thought I knew about this case 591 00:41:07.639 --> 00:41:10.320 was a lie. But at least now that the truth has come out, 592 00:41:10.360 --> 00:41:15.679 that increases the chances of it being solved. Yeah, that must be so 593 00:41:15.840 --> 00:41:20.840 bananas. When you have like this concrete idea of exactly what happened, it's 594 00:41:20.840 --> 00:41:24.199 committed to your memory. Because we all know that you are the biggest Unfeld 595 00:41:24.199 --> 00:41:29.840 Mysteries fans. And if anybody who's listening to this doesn't know, literally Robin 596 00:41:30.000 --> 00:41:31.840 can, off the top of his head tell you all of the details of 597 00:41:31.880 --> 00:41:37.119 all of these cases in a way that nobody else that I know that does 598 00:41:37.159 --> 00:41:43.159 true crime or literally anything else has the capability of doing or retaining. It 599 00:41:43.360 --> 00:41:46.000 is an incredible thing to watch him do it. You know, when you 600 00:41:46.079 --> 00:41:50.000 call out a case and it's like, oh, yeah, that one and 601 00:41:50.159 --> 00:41:52.119 lists off all the stuff, and Ashley and I are always in awe of 602 00:41:52.159 --> 00:41:57.599 that. So this must have really shook you when you heard all of these 603 00:41:57.639 --> 00:42:00.440 new details and was like, everything that I thought that I isn't true. 604 00:42:01.000 --> 00:42:04.239 It's true. I actually had to use notes for this one. I don't 605 00:42:04.320 --> 00:42:07.960 usually have to do that. Usually I can just know the entire case off 606 00:42:07.000 --> 00:42:09.280 the top of my head. But now that I learned all this new stuff, 607 00:42:09.320 --> 00:42:13.000 I had to keep double checking and triple checking to make sure that I 608 00:42:13.039 --> 00:42:15.559 got it right, because now I'm not entirely sure of everything I'm sharing is 609 00:42:15.559 --> 00:42:19.760 accurate. So that should give you an idea of how much this new information 610 00:42:19.880 --> 00:42:23.199 just blindsided me. So that about brings an end to our discussion about the 611 00:42:23.239 --> 00:42:28.000 Antonett Kaydido case, and we hope there is a resolution someday. So I 612 00:42:28.119 --> 00:42:30.000 join us stuff for our next episode of The Path Went Chilling. We'll probably 613 00:42:30.000 --> 00:42:35.840 have Ashley back next time and be talking about another cold case. Robin, 614 00:42:35.880 --> 00:42:37.519 do you want to tell us a little bit about the Trail Went Cold Patreon? 615 00:42:38.320 --> 00:42:42.239 Yes, The Trail Cold Patreon has been around for three years now, 616 00:42:42.280 --> 00:42:46.400 and we offer the standard bonus features like early ad free episodes, and I 617 00:42:46.440 --> 00:42:51.880 also send out stickers and sign thank you cards to anyone who signs up with 618 00:42:51.960 --> 00:42:55.159 us on Patreon. If you join our five dollar tier Tier two, we 619 00:42:55.239 --> 00:43:00.599 also offer monthly bonus episodes in which I talk about cases which are not featured 620 00:43:00.599 --> 00:43:05.440 on the Trail Went Cold's original feed, so they're exclusive to Patreon, and 621 00:43:05.480 --> 00:43:08.400 if you join our highest tier tier three, the ten dollar tier. One 622 00:43:08.440 --> 00:43:14.639 of the features we offer is a audio commentary track over classic episodes of Unsaw 623 00:43:14.719 --> 00:43:19.079 Mysteries, where you can download an audio file and then root up the original 624 00:43:19.159 --> 00:43:23.719 Unsaw Mysteries episode on Amazon Prime or YouTube and play it with my audio commentary 625 00:43:23.760 --> 00:43:28.800 playing in the background, where I just provide trivia and factoids about the cases 626 00:43:28.840 --> 00:43:31.960 featured in this episode. And incidentally, the very first episode that I did 627 00:43:32.000 --> 00:43:37.280 a commentary track over was the episode featuring this case. So if you want 628 00:43:37.320 --> 00:43:40.760 to download a commentary track in which I make more smartass remarks about Juwel Kaylor 629 00:43:42.079 --> 00:43:45.159 than be sure to join Tier three. So I want to let you know 630 00:43:45.239 --> 00:43:47.880 a little bit about the Jewels and Ashley Patreon, so there's early ad free 631 00:43:47.920 --> 00:43:52.760 episodes of The Path Went Chili. We've got our Path Went Chili minis, 632 00:43:52.840 --> 00:43:55.039 which are always over an hour, so they're not very many, but they're 633 00:43:55.039 --> 00:43:59.679 just too short to turn into a series, and we're really enjoying doing those. 634 00:44:00.239 --> 00:44:02.440 We hope you'll check out those Patreons will link them in the show notes. 635 00:44:02.920 --> 00:44:06.800 So I want to thank you all for listening and any chance you have 636 00:44:06.920 --> 00:44:09.360 to share us on social media with a friend or to rate and review is 637 00:44:09.400 --> 00:44:14.119 greatly appreciate it. You can email us at the Pathwin Chili at gmail dot 638 00:44:14.159 --> 00:44:17.119 com. You can reach us on Twitter at the Pathwin. So until next 639 00:44:17.119 --> 00:44:21.960 time, be sure to bundle up because cold trails and chili pass call for 640 00:44:22.039 --> 00:44:25.079 warm clothing. Music by Paul Rich from the podcast Cold Callers Comedy