American Hostage is an Amazon Original and Criminal Content production. This podcast is based
on a true story of a hostage crisis that took place in Indianapolis in nineteen
seventy seven. Listener discretion is advised. Episode three, The lions Den.
We understand now that this could go for quite some time. Coritis reportedly has
four days apply of food any a department. National news and local news two
very different beasts with two very different faces. If you want to go national,
you've got a sensationalize now. That just wasn't my thing. However,
when you're stuck in the grind doing local news for twenty five years, you
start looking in places you shouldn't. You start getting reckless. I mean,
whom I kidding? I wanted to be a name you'd never forget, and
so did Tony Curtzus, okay, next to kid, I'm sorry, I'm
sorry. What You're about to enter a building? Why it with bombs?
We needn't know who to contact in case you don't make it out. Oh
oh um my mother? Um or three eight nine? Got it? And
your name again, Erica Potter, I am with the city. Start ahead,
Bigley, all right, give me a sentence wait, I'm sorry,
the bomb squard said, yeah. Now, Curtzus has already talked the four
city lawyers today. He kicked all of them out. What makes you think
you'll get a different response? Ah? Well, uh, I'm the last
one. All right, here's a situation. The building is secured on all
sides, the most likely explosives on the northwest corner. The bomb spot is
scout wearing all four main points. Is a swat team tucked in the back
and sides, and are multiple snipers aiming at every floor. To be clear,
the building you're about to enter is a war zone, and you have
signed away your rights in the off chance or anything happens to you. Do
you understand the situation? Miss Potter? Okay, yeah, I hear you
just said. Nobody nobody said anything about am so you don't have any visual
on It could just be a bluff, huh so, But how confident are
you that it's a buff? Now here's your badge. Take a right up
those stairs flight, you'll hit officeer pegging and he'll take you to the door.
I'm gonna give you a walkie talking, and if you feel like things
are going sideways, you hit me up and we'll push in. All right,
I got Erica Potter coming up, newest city lawyers. Your luck Potter,
think, oh Luck Potter. Anything you say can get a man's head
blown up. Any wrong move and the building can blow. So you know,
try not to get us cool. Oh, thank you, thank your
people when we wanted to you miss spot her. Yea, all right,
just come up this way, follow me, keep it cool best you can.
The last lawyer was trying to get his demands to just start there.
And also I do not recommend any chit chat. Okay, just get right
to it. Okay, thank you, good luck, so give and he
let on that Marget working here, and then when we got to he jump
to the boot card to me here says they do the plan B, Plan
A with to kill he had been planning with for four years. According to
my information here here Paul's White is now in a hospital for surgery on the
nature that we don't report. Okay, Tony, mister Tony curtzis I need
to write down everything you want so I can take it back downtown to Bob
Ferrell. I don't even know who the fuck I'm talking to. Who is
this? My name is Erica Potter. I'm a deputy prosecutor for Marion County.
Oh, we got us a bona fide female here, don't we.
They're pulling out all the stops now, mister, mister curtsis, I'm here
to report on your conditions. You sound like you're still sport pigtails. Honey,
How old are you? I'm I'm twenty eight, Tony. Uh huh.
Well, now I know what they're thinking. They're thinking they get a
female in here and suddenly I'm all a shutter. But baby doll, that
ain't happening. And you're off your goddamn rocker if you think this change is
a single goddamn thing. I'm mad as hell, and I dodged the wiles
of women this far, and I ain't stopping now. Don't you hear me,
Tony, It's not a trick. I can assure you that I am
perfectly equipped to handle these negotiations. And if they're how many goddamn lawyers this
fucking city? God? You? Where are the other fifteen I've been talking
to? They were pulled off. We we didn't want to make it seem
like we were gagging up on you. I'll be ear liaison to the prosecutor's
office. So anything you need will go through me from now on. Where's
my lawyer? This seems like a goddamn infringement on my right. Shous talk
without my lawyer? Okay, he's on his way, and if you'd like
to wait for him, we can do that. I just want to be
able to get you anything you need in the meantime. Huh. So they
made a female they hate haunch a lawyer. Huh No, No, that
that would be Bob Farrell. He sent me down here to negotiate terms of
Well, why ain't Bob Farrell down here himself, then, missus Potter,
if he's the one who's calling the shots, Oh, he's got another case
that needs his immediate attention. Well there's another fell out there sticking guns and
people's faces that I don't know about you. No, Tony, I picked
a busy day for y'all. Huh. I can't even be the story of
the week, Tony. I can assure you that you have our complete and
undivided attention. Why do you become a lawyer, Potter? I want to
help people. No, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, don't give me that bullshit. Honey, that shit from
a prosecutor. You're a finger wagger. When's the last time you sent a
real bad guy to jam? I mean a real bad fellow potter, a
real snut nosed cheet who swindles millions. Because there's a hell of a lot
of those fucks out there. Um. I prosecuted Cole Marky last year.
Who's that? He's the guy who dropped that kid down the well? All
right, he counts, Tony. I requested this job myself because I wanted
to talk to you, sir. I think I'm the right person to get
you what you need. I find your story very sympathized. Bad Dick and
tart a little blow job, Honey, there's that trick again. There's that
female? Is them if I ever heard it? Trying to butter me up?
So what you can do? But the kids trying to help you?
Tony? You all give me a minute. I gotta domesticate my friend Dick
here, Tony, Tony, Hey, what's what's going on? I love
talking to you, Dick, But you wait until you're prompted. You hear
me, Tony? Yeah, what's going on? You give me a minute?
Is mister Hall? Okay? You all act like Dick can't wear Bruce.
Dick's just fine. I'm fine, I'm all right. Okay, now
you listen to me, miss Potter. Are you listening? Yes? Three
things, motherfucker. Three things. You got a little pen and paper?
Yeah, I got him. Tony number one, I want an apology del
facto from Ridian Mortgage and the ester House Corporation that exercises me from all admonishment
from here thanks, fourth into until all services are rendered. Okay, Yeah,
could you just repeat that, Tony? What are what? Are you
stupid? Are you a fucking lawyer or not? Yes? I am.
I just speak a legal leezer not do you speak your own damn language?
Okay. So your first demand is that you want an apology from Esterhouse,
And what I assume is is you want them to say that you never did
anything wrong. I want them to say they cheated me, They cheated me,
and the whole goddamn world needs to know it. Okay, Okay,
Tony number two, you get number one down, Yeah, I got it.
Number two I want one hundred and thirty thousand dollars in the hall say
I owe them wiped out. I want that gone. They fucked my plans
to get that money early, and I'm not dealing with it anymore, okay,
Tony. And I want five million dollars. Five million dollars because I
worked like a dog my entire live, honey, and I never ever had
one greedy breath, and now I feel like being greedy with how I've been
raped the way I have. So I want five million dollars from my troubles.
Okay. And that's number three. No, that's part number two.
Are you stupid? Are you that big a moron? No, sir,
I just want to be clear. God, I can't stand you people.
Number three, I want ironclad immunity. I'm walking out of here and I'm
going home, and I'm putting out my pajamas. I'm sleeping for a week
straight, and there's not a goddamn pig who's gonna get in my way or
stop me. Okay, So immunity, that's right. No charges. I'm
gonna be able to walk down the street and sign autographs when this is over
and done. And no psychological evaluations, you hear me, none whatsoever?
All right? All right, hang on, Tony, Tony, hang on,
I can hear you. Fine, it's okay. I know you're all
out there thinking I'm crazy and I'm out of my mind, and I'm not.
I am a sound mind and I am stable. Okay, Okay,
Tony, I've got it all right? Is that all? That's it?
Now? I don't want to hear another word from any of you, any
of you. I'm done, And when I want to talk, i'll talk.
So you get the hell away from my door. Okay, Tony,
you get the white point. We can turn around over the baby and there
is a my arrival or prompt on a window with a clear view, a
baby of the apartment. I certainly not claimed that any way. Oh whatever,
my God laying out the window and the m Father God, give them
peace and let them know you are with them. Shut up, Dick,
What are you praying for? That's about all I have, Tony? What
do you pray for? Dick? My wife, my kids? Do?
What you forgot about yourself? How this happen if you pray so hard?
I don't know. Yeah, that's my problem with religion, Dick. I
don't know. Covers too much acreage. I've been praying for you too.
Oh yeah, what four? Well, let's do the right motherfucker. I
am doing the right thing. This is goddamn justice. You understand me,
Look at me, Dick. That's something the Bible is all about, isn't
it justice? And if you're praying that I do the right thing, you
might as well be praying I blow your head. And as Tony, I
want to settle this as much as you well, I know you do.
You didn't die a shop into the back of my head, but you stutplut
a noose around me. Pal. You've been squeezing the life out of me
for four years. Four years. I've been gagging for four four the loan.
I know you gave me the loan and two extensions. You stop telling
me what you did for me. I came to you with a plan to
develop the best land in the city. I had offers, and you know
I had offers. I don't want to make you mad. Well, we're
damn pass that now, aren't we passed? Saying I want to have this
conversation with you, Tony, and I want to have it man to man,
which is the way it should be had. But you've got me handcuffed
with the guns in my head, and I don't feel like I can speak
my mind because you're scaring me, Tony, and I know you want to
and you've succeeded, But if you want to have this conversation like men,
you've got to bring me to your level. Yeah. I think that's fine.
Turn around. Sorry, he got you? Now, Dick, you
don't do anything fucking stupid because you yell or you move and this whole building
goes up. You hear me, I hear you, Tony. Now,
Dick, give me your best bullshit. Last year, after that second extension,
you came in with that offer from the jewel Company. No, I
fucking remember, and I remember Dad was excited for you because they had offered
you some real money on that land. And I remember you were excited too.
I was excited, you bet your ass. They were gonna give me
five hundred thousand dollars for that and I barely developed yet. Why didn't you
take it? Because it didn't feel right? And I knew, I fucking
knew they were gonna be better offers, and you knew too, And that's
why you and your fucking family went behind my back and started showing the land
to other clients without me knowing who we did. What don't you give me
that you son of a bait, Tony, I genuinely have no idea what
you're talking about. You when your daddy were taking meetings behind my back,
talking about my land, the land I took a loan out on, and
the land I broke my back to development. We didn't do that. You're
a liar. You're a fucking liar. You tried to steal them away from
me. You tried to steal my fiars. Listen, you're scaring me again,
But I'm gonna hold firm that we didn't do what you're saying now.
We had to far close because you weren't. You did You ruined, oh
my goddamn life, and I had such a little one to ruin. You
were born with a silver spooning your mouth, and I was forced to build
a house with a rusty one as a shovel. I didn't have a wife,
I didn't have kids. I had hand shaved down to the bone from
all the work I did to make my dreams come true, and you had
to take it away from me. You had to look look what you made
me. Don let's let's talk. I'd let you talk, and I'll let
you speak your mind. And I'm a perfect goddamn gentleman. I'm a perfect
gentleman. Now you're turning around round bast your nose right through your say,
Tony, M, could you at least loosen the handcuffs and notch My wrists
are swollen? Let me see M. Well, shit, that looks bad.
Just one notch less would help. I would pal, but I don't
have a key. You want some rice form? Sure? Thanks, Tony?
What do you really want to kill me? You made it so I
half to one it here. According to one one man who walk well,
my dispended in the downtown area with him, his hand is tied such a
way that would he be shot, the fall of his body would pull the
trigger on the shot gun and killed the hot pitch. And it's because of
that kind of free thinking that the posture here is one of greatly Here.
Hello, Tony, it's Fred. Yes, sir, mister Eckman. How
are you well? I'm doing all right, Tony. You got news for
me about that interview? Yes, yes, sir, I do. We
are. We're good to go over here. That's good news. That is
good news, yes, sir, Thank you, mister Hickman. Well yeah,
now, Tony, I also got to think him that you were right
when you were talking about the eleven o'clock slot, and that's that's too late,
and your story deserves as much coverage as it can get. You're absolutely
goddamn right. Part pardon my language. It's almost nine o'clock now, yes,
sir, but the whole world's watching. I heard a chopper outside just
an hour ago. Well, what we'd love is if you could come down
to the station and talk with us after you release mister Hall, and we'll
let you talk for as long as you'd like. I mean, they don't
even let me talk that long. Tony, Tony, what do you say?
Didn't know you thought of me as such a huge fucking idiot, mister
h whoa, whoa, whoa? Hang on there now with them? Now?
Are you working with them? Is that it? You're working with these
pigs? These Tony was just a night. Now you listen here, mister
Eman. Now respect you, and I respect your situation. I've listened to
you for nearly twenty years, and I've told people to listen to you because
I thought you respect you, you're listeners, and now you're going against me,
and you're going against the people, the common people. The common man
to work with these pigs. Do you have them in the room with you
right now? No, it's just you and me, Tony. Where did
Leo Malone go? He's talk my ear off for hours and then just disappeared.
Is he with you? He's not here. There's nobody named Lenny Malone
here, Leo Malone, mister rackman, I said to Leo Malone, he's
not here. Now you're listening to me right now. I'm giving you the
night off. You hear me? Because I agree with you about the eleven
o'clock time, so i'd being bullshit. It is bullshit. So tomorrow we're
gonna do this thing for real. Do you understand We're gonna do this interview
live at noon noon? Do you hear me? When everybody's listening, I
hear You're not putting this shit off anymore. No more, I'm hearing everything
you're saying. I'm tired you're procrastinating, mister hickman, because you never get
me closer to putting too slugs Ncall's head. When I catch you procrastinating,
I understand you, Tony, I understand you apologize to me so we can
get back on track to be in France because I don't like streatment at you,
mister Hickman. I don't like it one bit. You're a man I
respect, and I prefer having respect for you rather than anger. Well,
I am sorry about all that, Tony. All right, all right,
hey, hey, we're back on track, baby, Tony. I'd like
to ask you a favor. Yeah, yeah, I bet you would.
See. I did what Dick asked me to do, and I called his
wife, Shelby. She is scared out of her mind, Tony. She's
been watching the TV all day and she's practically catatonic with fear. I'd say
anyone in her position would be Well. Now, I told her that I
would ask you if it would be okay for Dick to call his wife and
talk to her for just a minute. You did what? Now? Now,
I didn't say you would let him. I know you're calling the shots,
Tony. I just told her that I would ask, and then I
believed you were a fair man. But I didn't say you would let him.
But what do you think, Tony? Do you think you'd let him
do that as a personal favor to me. I'm just thinking about how much
my wife would need to hear from me. You're Russ anniversary U missing,
Yes, the very same one. I don't want anyone thinking I'm cruel.
Nobody thinks you're cruel to me. I'll do it. I'll do it for
you, mister Hackman, because you're a hell of a man. You can
call me Fred Tony, Yes, sir mister Fred. Or look look at
that you got me all flustered, Yes, sir mister Fred. Okay,
tomorrow, Lightning. The offer only stands so long as Dick Hall is alive.
Tony, h I hear you. We'll talk tomorrow. You take care
of yourself and him. Good night, Fred. Call your wife? Do
you mean it? Yes? I mean it. You need to calm her
down. Well, thank you to I'll give you five minutes, Dick,
and I'll be right here. Hello, sweetheart, it's me. Oh Dick,
Dick. Did they get you out? No? No, hang on,
honey, I'm still here. I'm still with Tony. Dick. I
don't, I don't. I don't understand what he's doing. He's very upset,
honey. He's very upset. And how a deal we made with him,
how it all started to come apart. I talked, I talked to
Fred Heckman. He said that he tried and get Tony to let us talk.
Yeah, Tony and I both are both are big Fred heck and Fancy
seems to be doing everything he can for the two of us. How's your
lung, Honey, feeling okay? I'm staying in bed. I don't want
you back in surgery, and I'm feeling okay. I'm behind Dick? What
about you? How is it all with you? Talking to your wife?
Helps? Let me get the kids? No, no, honey, don't
no, it's it's better. It's better that they don't m sweetheart. I
love you very much, and I want you to tell the kids I love
them very much. Dick, don't, Dick, what's God? What's that?
Don't say it like that, Please, don't say it like that,
like what like? You have to make sure I know you do, need
to know, you need to know, Shelby. No, you're coming home,
Dick. Tell me you're coming home? Shall be? Tell me you're
coming home? Honey. I want you to do something for me. What
what it's New Year's Eve nineteen sixty What are you wearing? What am I
wearing? Yeah? What are you wearing? That red dress? Polka dots.
It's too cold for that dress, and you wear it anyway. I
felt like making an impression. We walk over to the bar to get away
from Harry's jokes, and it's the first time we're alone. I'm smoking.
That's right, you're smoking and I'm not. But I get you to drink.
Yes, you do. It had been a hard day that had threatened
to fire me if I didn't get my act together. That's what you told
me, and he was mad. I didn't stay in the office that night
to go over some of the numbers we'd have to deal with in the new
year. I remember, But if I had stayed in I wouldn't have had
that moment with you, where you would find out I don't smoke, and
where I would get a drink with you. Stare at you in that red
dress, and then we hear it. Look for the silver lining. Whenever
a cloud appears in the blue, remember somewhere the sun is shining, and
so the right thing to do is make it shine for you. Her heart
full of joy and gladness, will always banish sadness and strive to always look
for the silver lining and try to find the sunny side. Oh life.
I love you too, Dick. Good night, Honey, good night,
Dick. I'll talk to you soon. M M. Thank you, Tony.
You're welcome, Dick. I don't know what's gonna happen tomorrow, but
you ain't gonna die tonight. Next time on American Hostage, I want to
talk about the interview. I got some questions I want you to ask me.
You got a pen and paper, Go ahead, Tony. Question one?
Do you regret having killed the prisoner? Fed? They're coming in.
I'm just worried. I fed is gonna make Tony jumping. Well, don't
worry about that. I'll stay quiet. You won't know him there. Where
the fuck was that was? That was Jim, my producer? Do you
put him on the phone right now? This is Jim. Are you associated
with the law enforcement? No? I am not associated with law enforcement?
Did you break pieces of ship of the fucker? Right now? Tony?
Did you kill him? I need you to answer me now, Tony is
Keith alive? American Hostage is an Amazon original and Criminal content production written by
C. D. Carpenter, directed by Shaan Christiansen, produced by Adam Volerich
and Brendan Hubbard. Executive produced by John Hamm, Shawn Christiansen, and Gabriel
Mason, starring John Hamm and Joe Perino, with additional performances by James O'Connor,
Christina Brucado, Mara Casson, Brian Wilson, Ryan Willard, Brendan Hubbard.
Sound designed by Brandon Jones, composed by Darren Morsey, Editing by Thomas
Beach, Shaan Christiansen and Adam Volich. Recording and engineering by Dave Williams,
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