This is the baseline discussing the hot button topics of the NBA. Welcome everybody,
your tune to the baseline Callie Warrenshaw discussing the hot button topics of the
NBA and we are back at it again, another hot and heavy episode that
are covered in edition of the Autopsy Reports NBA Playoff Action. It is crazy
hype as we continue to move forward ever so closer, you know to what
everyone says is, you know, trying to get to the top of the
mountain, right riding space mountain like Rick Flair. One team wants to be
the one hoisting that trophy. And we've been watching some awesome Round one action
of NBA Playoff Basketball, and you accompany that with are coveted autopsy reports.
Man, I mean, it's just a great time to be alive, even
if you're dead. So let me go ahead and roll out the red carpet
to my right hand man's www Dot Shaw Sports Dot epic of Huna P ANDC.
My man, mister Warrenshaw rapping out of fat Lad Florida. What's good,
brother Shaw? I know you have been thoroughly impressed so far with the
first round action of NBA Playoff basketball, and it just gets us all warmed
up and excited for us to do another edition of our autopsy reports. You
know what it is, brother, you know you know you know me for
a long time and understand my my understanding and feelings about the game. And
yet again one team just jumping the line here to get on top of our
autopsyport. Couldn't wait for the baseline boys jumping on you know, give us
we don't hand out. We don't hand out tickets, right, we don't
hand out, we don't hand out tickets for autopsies. Right. We might
need to start though. I mean again, it's becoming a pretty popular situation.
So, but the playoffs themselves have been really intriguing, a lot of
injuries affecting a lot of smack talk going on too, So we need to
do some evaluation of ours Talker of the Year conversation as we push things forward.
But the NBA Playoffs have have not under promised and not underdelivered in any
capacity. A lot of intrigue storylines throughout the course of this first round.
And I mean we could we could actually do a show in of itself just
regarding a lot of the first round action. I know, that we have
got a jampacked episode of our coveted autopsy reports. But I quickly want to
just kind of get your take on a couple of highlighted items that clearly you
and I have recognized and maybe our listeners didn't even recognize from what we've seen
already in the first round of the NBA Playoffs. First of all, Shaw
a very interesting point by Doc Rivers, which you know I listen. I
gotta give it to Doc Rivers, right, the Philadelphia seventy Sixers went in
and handle business, and they are quickly emerging is becoming one of the most
dangerous teams. All of this is predicated on the health of Joel Embiid indeed,
but us seeing the resurgence of James Harden, the role players for the
Philadelphia seventy Sixers. Listen, while everybody is probably still thinking that it's going
to be the Bucks of the Celtics that are going to probably come out of
the East, I think people really should take note on how dangerous this Philadelphia
seventy Sixers team is. And they definitely made a statement by asking the Brooklyn
Nets to exit stage left very quickly in this first round in the NBA Playoffs,
and again it just highlights to me how we just cannot take for granted
when teams are coming in with their best work at play, how we have
to acknowledge what this can mean for them and their playoff run. I would
agree. I think, you know, the Philadelphia has acquitted themselves in a
way that many people were skeptical of. They didn't want to see them struggle
against It really wasn't an inferior Brooklyn team. Nice story, but a lot
of the Nets juicy if you will, was padded by the work Kyrie and
KD did before they left. So they add they are out ten games above
five hundred when both of those guys got traded, you know, and the
Nets more or less was able to maintain some semblance of standing here, but
probably were not the true sixth seed, if that makes sense. In terms
of that, I think Atlanta and Atlanta and Miami are both better teams as
currently constructed. And then they just ended up running into a bus on the
seventy six ers. But luckily for Philly, they took care of business,
didn't play around and really starting to see really truly the emergence of Tyrese Maxi
even further than what we've a lot of people said, like they need him
to be technically like the second best scorer on that team with Tobias Harris and
even James Harden and filling in supplementary roles. Harden is more facilitator now,
So Maxi's a s sorry sure ascension here is really what is the case herein
that made Philadelphia is running the first round here as easy ass as it ultimately
was. Yeah, the one thing I just wanted, because I know we're
going to focus our attention on discussing the brooken Nets is they are obviously one
of the teams that we will be discussing on our autopsy report. My attention
is more so about the Philadelphia seventy six ers show in that this, to
me, on a macro level, I think is the best case situation for
us to properly assess what is going to be the future of the Philadelphia seventy
sixers moving forward. Because if you can't have a team that you can truly
rely on making a significantly deep run, what changes could you possibly make?
Like the rumors about them getting rid of Doc Rivers, you know, the
chance that they're taking signing PJ. Tucker things that nature like for us when
we're talking about Tobias Harris, so we're talking about Tyrese Maxie, if you're
the Philadelphia sev six is you really want to use this run to properly assess
what the future of the Sixers and the success for them to finally get over
the hump is gonna mean when you're seeing these guys playing at a high level
and we've seen them fall short year after year. So what I appreciate more
than anything is Doc Rivers told these guys and even though I know it's the
Brooklyn Nets, Doc Rivers says, go in handle your business. Don't play
around with these dudes. Like we're seeing some teams right now, they're probably
going to run into a struggle. You're gonna probably start seeing hiccups. Do
we start questioning whether or not that's going to be the landscape of the Eastern
Conference. When you're talking about the Bucks, when you're talking about the Celtics
against their matchups, I'm just saying that I'm glad to see the Philadelphia seventy
six ers leave no question, no stone unturned about the doubt that they should
be in the semifinal round, and that to me is a good thing if
you're talking about representation and the actual future of the seventy six ers. Yeah,
I mean, and that's where do you go from here? So this
is what have you done from a lately situation. I don't think anybody picked
the Nets to beat Philadelphia, so some ways they took care of business in
a way that everyone expected. Maybe I certainly sweep think most people pick five,
maybe even six games, but they were by far and away the better
team and that showed, especially in the fourth quarter of that first round series.
So Philly will sit here and wait see what their second round opponent is
and if it does happen to beat Boston, Ortlanto whichever one, they have
full expectations to get past both of those teams and meet whoever now in these
conference finals, because you know, on the other side of the bracket,
we have no idea what's happening. You know, we get we could do
a whole other show on what the playoffs look like from what we thought they
were going to be coming in, you know, a week or so ago.
Absolutely, all right, chear really quick. I want to focus towards
the Western Conference, right and what we're seeing emerging now with the field with
the Phoenix Suns, right Like, everybody has looked at them and said,
if these guys start putting it together, they mess around, they essentially are
going to look like the Golden State Warriors from four years ago, four or
five years ago. So you know, my whole thing is when you look
at the Western Conference and you see how things are playing out in that first
round, what I have acknowledged is the chippiness. The competitive level has gone
up way high. Right Like, even amongst the brotherhood of the NBA,
we're seeing guys basically saying it's gonna be all out, balls out when when
we're playing against each other, we don't care about what the ranking is,
we don't care about what jersey is on your chest. I mean, when
you really look at it, man, it's it's amplified the attention of how
you know what I'm saying, everybody is grabbing at this opportunity to possibly walk
away with a championship this year. And oh, by the way, the
Golden Stay Warriors are still amongst those teams that you still have to take that
into consideration. This spy the antics of what's taking place in that King's Warrior
series. Yeah, I mean the West is giving everything we thought it would.
All the teams out there feel like they have a legitimate chance, um
save maybe the Minnesota tripleles, right, and you didn't even though Shade you're
just doing Eclipse, I mean, just keeping it a buck. I think
at the end of the day, like they don't have championship aspirations, I
really feel like that that's where they can be. You know, in their
heart of heart. Everybody else thinks like they could probably do something. And
I mean whether good, bad or different. You know, a lot of
people would probably say the King don't have a real chance at this, but
you know, as we record leading in their series and whatever it is,
everybody feels like they're they're right there. So I think what we what we're
seeing is really truly the testament of that of understanding, like, yo,
why not us? Why not? Why can't we possibly win? You know,
especially if we can stay healthy? And you know, I think that's
obviously the unfortunate case for the Clippers. You know, with Kawhi going down
with the nice brain and not knowing when he'll be back. You know,
that puts them into disadvantage to the aforementioned Phoenix Suns as you spoke about,
So the West is great. I don't again, I don't have a good
sense of it right now. Who really is the best team. I don't
think Denver's being challenged in the way that is probably requisite. But you can
say maybe it's a nice tune up for the next round, and if they
do meet Phoenix in that second round, that's gonna be a really great series
and I can't wait to see it, absolutely man. So yeah, that
that is our quick round up of first round action so far, and obviously
you want to keep us locked here because we will continue our conversations and highlight
all of the things that are taking place. There was one thing that I
did want to definitely get your perspective on Shaw, and it's it's something that
I think even Doc Rivers had highlighted in regards to what we're seeing as the
trend that's taking place. I don't want to fixate on whether or not referees
are getting things right or wrong. We do this all the time, but
I did really want to get your perspective about the juda cation that is taking
place, on how we are looking at the actions, whether it's been in
the Eastern Conference or the Western Conference, that that that is that is happening
to the players, And I just wanted to get your perspective on it because
you're someone you know who kind of looks at everything, you know down the
middle. Right, Um, you can say blame can go be on on
on both sides. I'm just wondering from your perspective, Shaw, do you
find that the n NBPA is going to lean in more on the idea that
there has to be more accountability taking place when we have things like this happening
during the the the you know, the client, the height of NBA action
right primetime, whatever you want to call it, on being making sure that
we are parsing out proper um punishment to everyone involved. That is taking away
from the factor of people being entertained and seeing the best players out on the
basketball court basketball court and the best product that's being put out there during the
playoffs. Well, it's a layered conversation only in the aspect of the referees
and the Referee Association. They're they're going to make those calls in the game
when it comes down to suspension. That ends up being a league issue,
right, So it's based on whatever evidence was presented or they review the tapeic
center after the action that took place. So it's really multi layered in that
too. So the PA and the and the League now they've renegotiated, you
know, the collective Bargaining Agreement. So don't know what aspects of referee are
actually involved in that. I'm not sure there's any. But then now the
League and the Referees Association has another agreement that they helped that I think more
recently was I think of a year or so ago, was negotiated. I
don't know how often they go back review take a look at kind of the
things and I think you talk about you know, the Competition committee and all
those other things that those types of conversations come up. But in its totality,
what we've seen this year and Thistager's playoffs specifically, has been a lack
of consistency. And it's almost really interesting because they just try to put some
semblance of parameters in when it comes to the establishment of awards, right,
these awards need to have this minimum criteria siveral, fourth and so forth.
I think in some ways you're going to be looking at all. Right,
well, you know what type of offenses, and the offenses are going to
carry this weight and this type of criteria minimum finds, maximum finds, suspension,
no suspension based on kind of the judication of whatever the penalty or a
situation is. Um it seems a little haphazard currently right now. And that
is what players don't like more than anything else, as well as coaches.
Just the inconsistency of understanding what what what what penalty fits the crime. We
don't know, so they will need to take a look at that in some
capacity. I just don't have enough education in terms of the back end to
understand exactly what that looks like. But I would, I would imagine silver
and all those involved are going to say, hey, lest summer, let's
let's get together and see how we mess some things up here, you know,
especially in those first round hopefully gets better, and then see if there
are some things that can make the players and the players association a little bit
happier. Moving for Callie warns y'all to Baseline NBA Podcasts, and as always,
man, we appreciate you and yours for hopping on board with us this
week. We got a lot to get into man sew and I about to
drop on them white coats, and it's time to examine and exhum two new
teams. They're being added to the slab for our autopsy reports. We will
be talking about the Toronto Raptors and the Brooklyn Nets. Both teams interesting path
to their deaths, and obviously our eulogies will be somewhat of an interesting call,
so to speak. Is there a future for both of those teams.
Obviously one of them is taking a completely different path about dictating where their future
is going to be, and we'll talk about that in a moment, but
it's gonna be a great conversation nonetheless. As always, be sure to get
in my man Shaw Ashaw Sports, NBA Get at Me a game Face Leader
Shows, Twinhanah, and NBA Baseline. You know where to find us and
you know where we're at, So go to www dot Baseline, NBA dot
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You know how we do, You know how we roll. Let's get
us started autopsy reports here on the Baseline. Time to break it. They're
dead, My team, My team is dead. They knew we were coming,
man, they knew we were coming. Night time Now for the breakdown.
Callie Warrenshaw The Baseline NBA podcasts and this is uncoveted autopsy reports. When
we get to examining zoom teams who unfortunately are no longer with us for the
run for the NBA Finals or the NBA title for that matter. And so
two new teams are going to basically put on the slab, and the first
one that was stepping up onto the examiner's report, it's going to be the
Toronto Raptors, and you know, Sew, it's it's interesting, Uh,
the Toronto Raptors themselves are obviously, um, you know, putting some bodies
on the slab as the recent reports um came through the wire of them letting
go Nick nurse To as their head coach, which I think has shocked me
more than I'm sure you were shocked by this as well, and anyone else,
you know what a pulse would be totally shocked. Here you have a
guy who basically took the team to the NBA Championship in twenty eighteen. He
has an over you know, five hundred percentage as the head coach, arguably
one of the more heady minds in the NBA. I think it really surprises
me that given the circumstances and what the Toronto Raptors basically had to do to
get to themselves to be a part of the playing situation, and though they
did not know get into the playoffs, understandable the fact that Massaia Yujuri just
thought it was best that they part ways with Nick Nurse. I don't know
what could possibly be the justification for it, but clearly there's gonna be a
lot of work down the road for this team. I just didn't think it
was going to start with their head coach. Well, Nick had been alluding
to it a little bit, and I guess maybe he him aside with having
some conversations, but there's a little bit of had he lost the locker room
conversation going on here. We know he's a you know, anigmatic guy,
does a lot of things kind of quote outside the box that can resonate and
seemed to work. Others may call it gimmicky, and you know whether or
not those those gimmicks or those you know, those strategies started to wear thin,
and I think it's up for debate, just depending on the circles that
you're in. Toronto had an uneven season. They played better towards the end,
especially after getting Yaka Peurdle. They were above slightly thirteen and ten.
I think after the All Star break and you know, trade deadline, so
you know they finished at forty one to forty one though, right, So
this is a team that I think looked at in the water for a little
while but then showed glimpses. And I remember various reporters or watching games and
sometimes saying it's like, yo, how was this team where they're at?
Just like they were completely underachieving. Ultimately, though Nick Nurse, you know
is has moved on. I feel like it's while it's coming off as a
quote unquote firing, I think he probably was not long for the job in
that itself as well too, So Hybrid goes, he moves on, and
now you know, Udoka is a leading candidate in the clubhouse for for a
team that has obviously some talent with it, they have some big roster decisions
to make as well. Though. They acquired Yaka Purdle as I mentioned earlier,
but he's not under contract, so they have to figure out they're going
to re up on him. But at one number does that does that give
you? And a question I want to get to for you is really kind
of dual fold because they have three guys in in very various different situations Fred
van Vliet has a player option, Gary Trent has a player option. O
Gianna Nobi just wants to be out. He wishes the player option because he
would be exercising that and piecing out on them. I think on the first
thing, smoke, so Van Vleet did not have a really great year,
especially shooting the basketball. He really struggled with that. But I think there
was a lot of like, oh, he's gonna opt out regardless he's a
twenty two million I mean, yeah, he's not done a playing basketball.
But canny bet on himself and stay and then try to increase his his his
his value, you know, for the next season. Or does he opt
out now and see in a weeker free agent class and said what, I
might be one of the best free agents out there. Do I go out
here and see if I can you know, secure three years, sixty,
three years, seventy whatever it ultimately is. That's my question for you Van
Vleet, Trent, and Annanobe. That's kind of stopped with the Van Vleet
side of it first. So Fred van Fleet to me is a very interesting
player and and in me following him over the last couple of years, I've
often said, like, you know, he's a he's he's a mercurial kind
of guard. He's not the kind of guard that I think you you can't
coach down, and I don't know whether or not you can completely coach up.
I think he's someone that just pretty much stays within himself and stays within
his zone. And maybe this is part of what's triggered UM, you know,
size thought process in considering what moves have to be made, um in
order to to to determine what kind of future the Toronto Raptors are going to
be. So the reason why I say all of that is because you know,
Fred van Fleet is gonna give you about twenty points per game. But
I just thought he was always equally effective when he was coming off the bench
during that essentially during that year UM that they won the championship, right Like,
I think part of that UM difference in the way that the Toronto Raptors
have always responded as being a quality team was driven by the way that Kyle
Lowry led that team. I think it also drove you know you um uh
you you your jeries um uh decision making process about moving the Marta Rosen for
the forgetting a Kawhi, Leonard, I want to see where if you're telling
me that Fred van Fleet is going to be your point guard, have we
seen the elevation of Pascal Siakam's game? Right? Have we seen? Are
we going to see the elevation of Scott Barnes's game. I don't know if
I worry about Grary Trent and Ogianna Nubia. I feel like those are part
of those yester years of the Raptors because I you know, twenty eighteen up
till now, there's a distinction about the way that this team was supposed to
be moving in the direction that they were moving for us to really determine if
Nick Nurse truly had a finger on the pulse of this team. My whole
thing is, I don't know if you have Scottie Barnes and Pascal Siakam at
the peak of their levels, if you continue to play with Fred van Fleet.
I think Van Fleet's pace of play is very deliberate, very methodical.
That's not what you want with two athletic guys like Barnes and Siakam. And
I think part of that decision making process about saying, well, what are
you gonna do? With Van Fleet. Me personally, I think that if
you're selling me that Van Fleet is going to play a role of not being
the primary scoring guard that you have, you're gonna need a guard that's gonna
accentuate what you're getting from Barnes and Siakam. So let me start with that
part in my off base in my assessment of what I'm saying about Van Fleet.
Well, I think Toronto doesn't necessarily have a true option here. It's
Vanvleet's option, right, So Van Vleet is a one who kind of hell
holds some power. Now he opts in power shifts back to Toronto and being
able to say it's like all right, well on this last year, if
your deal, we'll see if this is where you ultimately want to be.
But I think they do need to figure out what the role definement is ultimately
going to be. I mean, Van Vleet nineteen and seven seven assists is
nothing to see that at any capacity, right. But I think you're right
about in terms of pace. Siakim does a lot of facilitation for them,
so does Scottie Barnes. So it's great to have that level of versatility kind
of throughout the throughout your your roster, especially with all those guys on the
floor, because you ever kind of know who's going to facilitate or versus who's
going to score in some aspects. M I just don't know. I think
that the total roster construction of Toronto is a little bit too Duplicitu and Van
Vleet while not you know, a rangy long guy, you know, like
that in the in the Barns and Siakam and Chris Bouche and even add Anobie
Realms. You know, he's kind of a diminutive, but is a solid
defender as well too, got really great hands. I just don't know if
this is the future that he wants, you know, to be. And
I think now all all options are on the table because Nick Nurse has been
let go. So does he say, yeah, shit, I do want
to stay. And now the year if you're going to bring in a guy
like Judoku led a team to the NBA Championship in his first year as a
head coach, right, well all Nick Nurse, right, I think that
has a lot to play with some of the decision making of both Gary Trent
and and and Fred van Vleet, like they may say, you know what,
maybe I don't. I will say though, I think Trent probably has
more more to gain by opting out than Van Vleet does currently and Ven is
a better player and even had a better year statistically. But I think the
aspect of what Trent does as a shooter and as a pseudo defender, he
may be able to go out here and cash out in a way that maybe
Van Vleet may not be able to because sometimes people are hesitant to pay guys
who are smaller, you know, like Van Vleet, you know, long
term. So especially since again he didn't have a good year with the percentage
standpoint, now that he didn't have a good year at all, but the
percentages were a little bit down, and that might have some teams like,
hey, maybe try to get him out a discount. But again this is
about market value and if you wait and go to another year where there's better
free agents available, will that probably drives your ability to make money down.
So do you jump out the window now or does Toronto say hey, we
really want you. That's why I say this is a really interesting situation here,
I think for the Raptors, because you know, I don't know who's
going to blink first? And you know what everybody wants because the firing of
Nick Nurse is looms very large. I think for the roster rotation and everybody
else on this team, how they'll be able to move forward moving again as
next season comes about. Right, So let me go ahead and address the
second part to your question. And I don't know if whether or not what
you're gonna do is lean me in towards what my assessment is going to be
about Gary, Trent, Nogi and Andnobi. But let me put it like
this, Shaw, I would rather see van Fleet slide to the shooting guard
position. If your intent is that you want van Fleet to still be a
part of this constructed roster of Barnes sachem say and having van Fleet, but
then you cannot have Trent and Enobe. I would probably like to see Barnes
move back over to the maybe the small forward position. Siakam naturally gravitate to
the to the foe if that's the intent. Here's my thing. Van Fleet
cannot be your primary ball handler. While I think that he is an adequate
guard, he is not the kind of guard that completely dominates you. Know
what I'm saying where you're gonna set up like him being the ISO guy and
still be able to set up guys like Barnes and Siakam. I just have
seen way too many instances where you're pushing van Fleet in a space where I
think he's built with someone better coming off the dribble better than having to be
the primary ball dominant guard. I think it compromises a lot of what you
can get from Barnes and Siakam if he's primarily your ball handler. Also,
let's keep in mind as well too, the Toronto Raptors are among one of
the worst teams in space. You have two Thoroughbreds and Barnes and Siakam,
who I believe are better in transition. You're not getting that with van Fleet.
So if you're gonna have Van Fleet, he needs to be your two.
I think that he shoots the basketball better. I think he comes off
the dribble better. Get a legit guard who's going to be able to help
open these guys up a little bit more, operate with more pace and play
for them so that you have a balance of whether or not you need a
half court set player like van Fleet to be your primary score or you can
have guys on the open blocks like Barnes and Siakam taking advantage of what they
can give you with their athleticism as the front court players. Right With that
being said, it can't be at the expense of saying, well do I
keep Trent or do I keep in Enobi, because I really think that you're
getting essentially the same kind of players. The only difference is is I see
more upside with an Enobi if as long he stays healthy. But we've seen
his track record of him not being fully healthy for the duration of time.
I think this is the last like this last season is the first season we
actually got to see Annonobi in full blossom for everyone to see what he can
bring to the table. But that doesn't necessarily mean that it yields success for
the Toronto Raptors. This would have been great back twenty eighteen prior when they've
had him, but up to this point now I just think it becomes an
anomaly. I just think it becomes like too little, too late, and
it's more to the advantage of Anobi for what he wants to get as far
as contractual goes, that he may go somewhere elsewhere being the type of player
that he is. It's going to be better for that team than necessarily what
he's going to continue to do if he does it with the Toronto Raptors.
Well, let me tell you this, without knowing Annonobi in any capacity,
this is no not source or anything like that too. Annonobe think he can
be mcel Bridges. Basically he can if you give him the opportunity to go
be the man on a team. I'm gonna have some words about Michael Bridges,
and I know people are gonna probably be like, what the hell is
cal talking about. Well, we'll deal with that. We'll deal with that
examiner's report in a little bit. But and Anobi, I think in his
mind is like, Yeah, I can go out here and get you twenty
plus a game if I was given the opportunity to be at least a number
one or even two option. Because Siakam is there, because van Fleet is
there, even Barnes to a lesser degree, those guys kind of gain.
They all just kind of do enough and cancel each other out. And the
way Yakam is clearly the best offensive talent on the team and really good.
He's really had two bounce back years in a row that have been stellar statistically
and all star level at et cetera, et cetera. But your point going
back to it about van Fleet is interesting because they are a couple of things
bothered me about Toronto, their lasting rebounding. So they got Purtle to hopefully
try to avert that Peartle's not gonna catapult them fifteen slots, excuse me in
the rebounding category, but he's gonna help. But they're also one of the
last team and shooting as well too, So now you just kind of wonder
with Van Vleet, Gary Trent, O, Gianna Nobi, Pascal Siakum,
Yaker, Purtle, how do you figure out that role delineation. You still
have Chris Bouche coming off the bench as well too. It's just there's a
lot of things that just don't really seem to work, and they are going
to have to probably move one or two of these guys. But the question,
again we keep coming back to, is well, does the problem get
solved for them by Van Vleet and Gary trent opting out of their contracts And
if that doesn't happen, what your quote quote stuck with them for a year.
Best case scenario. Maybe you do a two year extension with you know,
team option player option, right, you know, like you get an
option next year, they get an option the final I don't know, but
those are the biggest questions I think surrounding this Raptor's team, especially like I
said, in a free agent class that doesn't really seem like they'd be interested
in some of the guys that might be out there, and then financially they
wouldn't be able to would bring in people without moving a lot of contract to
solid realt I don't nobody I think wants out van Vleet. We're not sure
about Trent. We think probably like would like to stay, but just once
wants a pay raise, and then then they got it and they have to
more or less definitely resigned Purtle, who they brought in after trading him the
first time in San Antonio. Bringing him back now, um so they're in
a precarious situation. And not to even mention the the roster development. You
know, Delano Barton was also a free agent, and then um uh Pressus
Chua as well too, who also they got into trade as well. I'm
glad you brought up pressure to two because here's my thing. What do you
do with him? What? What? What? What becomes of him?
If the target, to your point, Shaw is possibly figuring out a way
to resign or re up yaka portal. Right, Like, I'm just wondering,
like what is what is the overall makeup? Because let's also be realistic
about this team as well too. As promising as some of these names are
that we've thrown out there, their bench is really not that good, right,
Like they're not the most productive in the in the sense of if I
sit a van Fleet, I sit a Barnes, I sit a Siakam,
where I sit in a nobi that these guys are gonna collectively amplify, amplify
this team's ability to score the basketball. Great team defensively, but god awful
defensively, god awful offensively. And and that to me is I think part
of that problem. You know we've talked about with other teams. They look
like promising dudes, and you want to keep them on the roster. You
keep them now you've overflooded the position. You've you know what I'm saying,
Like, you've got too many guys doing the same thing. So I'm in
fear of this is what may become of it, and listen to too massize
credit. He has always done an excellent job of diversifying the rosters that he
puts together. Now we may not see it all come to fruition, right
because they've only got one championship to show for it, and it basically took
them getting a superstar to do it. But we never questioned us looking at
someone on that roster saying, damn, that guy's got a great future.
You know what I'm saying, if if you're playing, if you're playing as
a Raptor, right, like, I'm just wondering what's because we have become
we've started to see the deterioration sort of speak now of what was one of
these strong points to the Toronto Raptors through the course of the years between Casey
and Nurses, that they had depth and they can put guys in and they
can be productive. Maybe they played above their heads. We're not seeing that
now. And this season you really saw a kind of fall off the table
because they really weren't able to generate much of anything in the way of getting
reliable guys to come on and be you know, plug in play dudes.
They're gonna make up for some of the things that they weren't able to get
from their starters and or just what they weren't getting at all, you know,
to leap frog them in a way where they weren't playing in the playing
and things of that nature. Yeah, again, I don't. I just
I struggle with trying to understand the obvious direction, because you're gonna look at
this team again, forty one to forty one got a limited in the play
in you know game if you will, eleventh and was eleventh and twelfth I
think offensive defensive rating, so like they're not terrible, just outside the top
ten and those things. While they are, they do struggle with the rebounding,
They struggle with the shooting. As I alluded to, what is the
clear path to roster construction? And I don't know if it is the version
of of nnobe. And for those who might be interested, who would have
been interested in the Macail bridges, I'll just continue to kind of like hammer
down on that comparison. All right, Well, if people out there want
bridges from Brooklyn and would would give you two or three draft picks, well,
is that the mode Tronda wants to go in because you're not in a
rebuild. So can you get pieces that make sense for a mid build that
ultimately fit would you do? Can you basically do what the Lakers kind of
did here at the at the trade deadline, right they reconstructed the roster around
the court pieces, but got pieces that fit more more more adequately. And
you know that's where it takes, you know, the work of a season
general manager and a great front office to understand the cap and the numbers to
make off for us out there that gets some pieces that make sense like who
would be sellers who? Or they need shooting as I said, they need
rebounding as I said, but they need pieces that fit around Siakam and Barnes
because then, as you were talking about in the outset, even with the
Chua and Chris Bouche, those are complimentary pieces that are somewhat duplicity, especially
because Siakam is a four, five Purdles are five, Barnes is are three
to four. So you like the flexibility of it, but it also can
cause you some dissension because role definement is harder to create. That way.
One thing I wanted to highlight show maybe you were going to get to this
particular point before we start getting into our eulogies real quick. When I talk
about Pascal Siakam, right, twenty four points per game, eight rebounds,
very nice numbers, but nothing that is jumping off the page for us to
say he's among one of those great stars, right, like there was a
few years ago we were trying to make that ascension comparison of him to what
we did with Jannis, like there's there's something in him where there's this level
of greatness that is just there, right, like we want to believe it
so badly because he was a part of what this team showed us when all
they needed was a Kawhi Leonard on that roster, right. And I don't
want to hear people, you know, trying to make this all well,
you know, as fool's goal, because you know the Golden State Warriors.
This has nothing to do with that. But the Raptors did what was required
for them to get to the finals, and then they all played to do
was necessary to win a championship, and Pascal Siakam was one of those guys.
And then the team got basically gutted, right like, got totally And
I'm not saying um Massai did that. I'm saying Kawhi walking basically put this
team in a very unusual situation where, you know what, the window is
now open for Siakam, for van Fleet, you know what I'm saying,
to step up and be the future for the for the Toronto Raptors, and
listen, you can make the argument that while they have had nice seasons and
they've been good, we are not seeing the superstar level that I think people
were hoping to have seen was supposed to grow from or blossom from still having
Lowry on that roster and what Leonard at Kawhi Leonard had implemented or gave them
in that fusion. You know what I'm saying, I'm not seeing it.
Maybe you can correct me if I'm wrong. Shaw, And I think that's
an interesting dynamic that no matter what we're talking about here, the Raptors I
think are gonna be a very good basketball team. But I think part of
this other equation is when will Pascal Siakam or maybe it's gonna be Scotty Barnes,
I don't know, but when are one of those guys going to elevate
to a superstar level to say they are a building block for this franchise,
right Like the idea to believe that we're building around something isn't because we're collectively
just decent guys and you know we'll get along. We'll be along to get
along. One of them is gonna have to step up and say I'm the
next Vince Carter, I'm the next Tracey McGrady, right Like, somebody has
got to step up like DeMar De rosen and and Kyle Lowry for their part,
for what they accomplished, what they did, they were the stars of
the Toronto Raptors. I have not been sensing that with Pascal Siakam, even
during these years post them winning the championship and the twenty five points per game.
While it looks good, is a number, it doesn't accentuate the level
of stardom that is required for them to be competitive in the Eastern Conference.
I mean, I won't disagree with that. I think he's he's not an
empty calories guy. You know it's not it's not, no, I'm not,
but but you know what, it's the same, it's the same breath
that I talk about with Karl Anthony Towns. Right. Yeah, good,
very good player. Obviously puts up really great stats, but there's just something
missing when it comes to that that in terms of being the guy and a
Siakam is your number two, I think you're fine. So again, I'm
not knocking Siakam because I don't think he's he. I don't think he can't
be that. And that's why I think Toronto's built the roster in a way
that compliments him and allows him to be, yeah, their best score,
but not necessarily all right, the guy who's going to make and take the
toughest shots. I think that actually goes to Red VanVleet a lot as well
too. Scottie Barnes is still very has a lot to go in terms of
his offensive development before he could even sniff that, and I don't know that
he'll ever beat that either as well. So that brings you to the other
question. It's like, all right, well, can you just be this
team that does it by a certain level of depth with really good, even
all star talented players on your roster, but the other pieces that complement those
all star pieces to make your team that much better. So I think you
were onto something with Maybe it is the moving of VanVleet or moving on from
him and whatever that lultimate looks like, or moving on and obe and getting
pieces that ultimately surround them, because I don't think you're gonna be able to
move Siakam. He's going to make thirty seven thirt eight million dollars over here,
you know, each for the next two seasons or whatever. Scottie Barnes
is a talent who they still obviously want to develop, right and he still
will be going into year three. So I think those are your quote unquote
building blocks for now. But I don't know if you're looking for the Raptors
to suddenly develop or have a superstar, I don't know that that's in their
in their makeup right now. I mean, and you could say the same
thing for we're not going to talk about them here today, but the Nicks
are doing that without a true superstar. Brunson and Randall are really great players,
are really good players, all star level players, but they're not superstars.
So I think it's about roster construction, coaching, and that allows you
to get to whatever level of success. And then yeah, there's a cap
on that you know, there is you know, like traditionally, but sometimes
you catch lightning the bottle and I think that's where the Raptors will ultimately we
try to go with their team absolutely shall I think that sounded like a really
good eulogy. Like I think, at the end of the day, the
one thing that we have properly assessed is this is going to be a competitive
basketball team. Let's not doubt that. Let's not even question that. And
I think as long as the Raptors continue to hang around in the Atlantic Division,
that other teams are going to force them to have to make sure that
they step up because they don't want to look bad. Right. But I
do think that there's going to have to be a lot of questions answered in
this offseason, and part of losing Nick Nurse, I think has accelerated a
lot of those questions now more than ever about what kind of clock you know?
Um, the Raptors are actually gonna be on your tune to the baseline
Callie Warrenshaw discussing the hot button topics of the NBA are coveted autopsy reports coming
up, We're gonna be talking about the other team that's out there in the
Atlantic Division to Brooklyn Nets, how good is their future? How bright is
their future? And I know I didn't mention them as well too. Are
they gonna be neck and neck abong chasing for the bottom? You got?
You gotta find out. You gotta hang around it and find out from us
what assessment, what you know? What we give you and our examiners report
about what's going on out in Brooklyn. But before we do that again,
listen, man, it's NBA playoffs, MLB's going on. You're probably watching
Premier League soccer and all kinds of great stuff. Isn't it a good time
for you to go out there and be a part of the betting community.
I know it would be for me as well as my man Shaw. But
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tune to the baselin Callie Warrenshaw discussing hot button topics of the NBA. Coming
up, We're talking Brooklyn Nets with our coveted autopsy reports. Here on the
Baseline, we are back Callie Warrenshaw Baseline NBA Podcast and we continue our coveted
autopsy reports as we focus our attention on the Brooklyn Nets, one of the
latest latest teams that got exited stage left, so to speak, through the
playoffs after being routed by the Philadelphia seventy six ers. You know, Shaw,
one of the things that I found interesting about, you know, the
Brooklynness is the narrative about this is that, you know, obviously the team
got helped by the uh the record uh prior to the trade deadline with Kyrie
Irving and and Kevin Durant, allowing them to basically be sixteen I think sixteen
games fourteen sixteen games, about five hundred something like that. Um, yeah,
there were there were ten eleven games about so listen. At the end
of the day. While I understand that, you know, they got helped
and they didn't have such a great record, the team still finished forty five
and thirty seven. Okay. Um, given that kind of movement for a
team where essentially three fifths of your starting rotation is gone, it's just like
poof disappear, you still manage to have in above five hundred records, you
still manage to be a top six team in the Eastern Ofference. That to
me, I think you could spell out as a positive victory, no,
or is this fool's gold that we're talking about. Um, it's it's like
it's in the middle of So the team was eleven and thirteen, um after
they All Star break, so two games below. A lot of that is
you know, strength of schedule, looks at exciter, so a lot of
factors coming into that, got to learn new systems, continuity, moving guys
around, so you know, not trying to read too much into that.
But at the same time, this is an average basketball team without early level
talent. So it's good as Ridges was and you know his three point celebration
and all of those great things. Um, this is a team that still
needs to figure out how they're going to develop and get better moving forward.
You know, again, I think I will continue to think the praises of
Jacque Vaughan here, but he continues to get dealt a hand that is harder
to deal with that he really has to use his coaching acumen to figure out
right, well, how do I make this roster different better and extrapolate the
most amount of talent. So with the various draft picks coming in and out
versus the various deals they've made over the course of the years, they have
some things at their disposure here one key thing, and you know, you
know, I don't want to get into overall tangent about it, but something
has to give with Ben Simmons, whatever that is. Something has to happen
there because that's obviously a lot of money on your books and whether you feel
like you can utilize them as a high price guy coming off the bench in
whatever capacity. I don't know that he can fit into our starter's role here
or not. But that's that's a conversation they really have to have with both
Ben and themselves as an organization moving forward. But Joe Harris, like,
what's the saddest of him? He's still under contract? Can you move that
deal? Not really getting much much run out here, Seth Curry is going
to be a free agent. Cameron Johnson is probably like, yeah, f
this on out, uh, you know, because anytime he gets you know,
thirty minutes a night, he's putting up forty points a game. So
can you figure out wolf for him where he can be a super sub coming
off the bench, or is he just like, listen, I'm moving on
to greener pastures. I'm not a part of this roster moving forward. He
still needs some size behind Nick Lackston. You know, they I think they
signed uh Moses Moses Brown, I think to come in. He didn't really
do much for them, you know, ultimately, but there's a lot of
holes, but a lot of great things, right, And then I said
all that, and uh, sorry, I said Cameron Johnson. I was
talking about, I said, Cameron Johnson, I met camp Thomas Thomason about
to say. I was like, okay, yeah, so yeah, Cam,
okay, yeah, but but but Cam Thomas is somebody as well too
well who is under contract. And they're like, all right, well he
doesn't get he doesn't get any runs, so you know, can you can
you parlay him into maybe another draft pick that you can flip. That's my
circumstance though, I mean, because the minutes you brought in, dim witty,
his minutes got eaten up. That's just that's just what it is.
Unfortune, not even the same position. Just but again, by virtue of
playing you know, guys out on the at the guard position in any capacity,
you know. And then because camera Johnson give does give you a little
bit of defense not a little bit, but a decent amount of defense into
inditional what he does, he just more season Camera Johnson twenty seven, Camp
Thomas is twenty one. Um, they they they just I think they're gonna
want to. But Johnson is a guy who probably could go, but they
don't have the ability to just figure it out. And I don't know if
he'd be willing to do a sign in trade or not, but I'm sure
they wish they had a couple more years of his contract on the books where
they could potentially flip him and get assets. But because he is a free
agent, that prosit that causes some problems for them, you know, going
into this into this offseason. So I do love what Jacques Von has been
able to do, but this roster is not as good as its overall record.
Um. And while they play hard, and these are I don't want,
I don't want. The word is is negative by by connotation, but
they're quote unquote cast offs who who don't feel like they should be treated as
such. During even Jornan Finney Smith, get capable NBA player, capable NBA
player, But none of these guys are going to get you too forty five
or fifty wins next year if this team comes, just runs it back,
especially with Devin Simmons situation. Loo. Yeah, so you bring up a
lot of great points. And I don't want to go too much on a
tangent, but I will say this the one main thing that I want to
tell people, I would be very, very cautious about the hype that people
have about Michael Bridges. I think Micaal Bridges is going to be a great
player, maybe even a star, I don't know. But he is a
volume guy and I witnessed this a lot. Maybe part of it is because
of the burden that is on his shoulders to go out there and execute and
score. I think people in Brooklyn got used to so much of the effective
and efficiency of having a Kevin Durant who can get you thirty points with less
than twelve shots, essentially, right, That's not Michaal Bridge's style of play,
right. He has got He's a volume shooter. He's got to take
shots. And I think if you are Jacque Vaughan and you're saying, okay,
and you're Sean Marks, and you're you're essentially saying, we're gonna keep
this piece. You better make sure that you've got quality guys that can rebound
to basketball, quality guys that can allow for that kind of volume shooting to
not get in the way of what other guys are going to have to contribute
on Michal Bridges part. Okay, while he's a great two way player,
you also are asking of that from him, you know, And so that
that, to me is part of where my concern is is that unless he
dramatically shows that he can be a more efficient score for the Brooklyn Nets,
this team is not constructed where there's going to be success. Given the type
of scorer you're gonna get from Michale Bridges, you got a lot of pieces
that I think are gonna wind up kind of withering away. Joe Harris's the
Seth curries, even maybe Spencer Dinwi. I don't know if the dynamic of
Dinwitty and and and Bridges is going to be as effective for this team moving
forward. So it'll be very interesting to see what is going to take place.
Because to your point, y'all, this team is the way that they're
constructed. While you got got a bunch of hustlers, they all seem to
be hustling in very different directions, not one completely cohesive. And I would
not put that on jacqu Vaughn to be the type of person to figure all
of that stuff out, um, because this team is not going to be
constructed. It's going to be yielded for success for his part, let alone
for the players individually. Yeah. Well, I like what you're saying that
you don't want to be too much for a prisoner of the moment. But
in the in the sample size in the regular season, you know, Bridges
was twenty six points per game, right, his defense was still top notch.
Then when the Sixers defense keyed in on him, that dropped down to
twenty three points per game and was a certain level of efficiency. So while
a lot of people say, yeah, Bridges is the next guy, He's
he's a star, he's all of that, I probably I want to see
it over an eighty two games Temple, you know. And I'm not trying
to say he's not better than he showed in Phoenix. I'm not saying he's
not even a twenty plus point per game guy. I just don't know if
he's the building block that maybe some people are going to try to make him
out to be off after seeing somebody average twenty six a game. Twenty six
a game is like Jaylen Brown numbers, you know what I mean, Like
that's really really good basketball and you get the defense on top of it.
I think there is some level of schematics that that played in his to his
advantage here, and then maybe some even overlooking and not thinking all right this
like they had to really worry about this guy. So he's gonna be a
twenty point per game guy with I think without question. But at the end
of the day, Brooklyn ultimately decides can they hitch their wagon to him as
the building block as you alluded to, even alongside Dinwitty, who will be
up after next year. So I don't think, you know, that's a
long term situation, even in his second stint. But the other guy,
it's a supplemental pieces, you know. It is the Dorrian Finney Smith is
the royce o'neils of the world. Yes, you got great production on our
next Claxton, but all right, can you can you get that again next
year? And do you want to be playing him thirty plus minutes a night
and just kind of forcing him, force feeding him minutes as a result.
So again, with some draft picks and the need and want to be better,
especially in a market that needs and wants you to be better, I
think you're going to see the Brooklyn Nets be very active in a lot of
ways and trying to make a lot of moves to improve this roster, as
I mean, as all teams do, but they just have a little bit
more incentive to do so because they do have a couple of good pieces and
a really good coach in addition to some draft equity that some of the teams
may ultimately want. I want to highlight really quick on the Nicholas Clackson point
that you made Shaw, so you listen, he had a he had a
good season, a really good season I think by all accounts, because of
you know how he's come, how he's emerged, sort of speak like he
didn't come in like on the map as being like this completely great player.
I mean, he obviously had to develop his skill set to even be at
a level where he is able to be a presence amongst those centers in the
in the Eastern Conference. I'm keeping it strictly within the East. I will
say this, though, Shaw, you cannot tell me that Nicholas Claxton is
capable of being able to hold his own if he's going to be dealing on
a night in a night app basis with the likes of Joel Embiide, time
Lord Pascal Siakam right, Like, there's going to have to be another step
in his evolution, whether that's his ability to get bigger, like you know,
bulk up a little bit, or his ability to be able to show
that he can hold his own, stay out of foul trouble and be a
significant contributor on both not both sides of basketball, but from a rebounding perspective,
defensive, you know, principle's perspective. It's kind of like what we
had questioned about Time Lord. Okay, so I'll be interested to see what
happens with Nicholas Claxton, because you know, you're beginning to see this,
this this idea. Jacques ban was toying with it because he had no choice
of running out this uber small lineup, you know, and trying to create
chaos against the likes of a team like the Philadelphia seventy six. Is the
problem is, no matter what you do, you cannot match up for a
guy who's seven foot tall that can shoot the basketball or a guy thatt seven
foot tall that has the ability to outrebound you and give their team second chance
opportunities, which I think is going to be a compromise situation for a guy
like Nicholas Claxton, you know at times. So it'll be interesting to see
what happens of this. But again, a lot of it is roster construction.
You could probably get away with that if the rest of the other supplemental
parts are helping to make up for what you know. You're not going to
be able to get from Nicholas Claxton immediately as he continues to grow and get
better because of the fact that he is a very young budding center in this
league. That's what I'm saying. I think you were able to get pretty
much Pete Claxton. I don't know how much better is going to get.
You'd hope he has a little bit more touch around the rim and even outside,
you know, maybe even ten to twelve feet you know, to do
some picking pops. But he's primarily a lot of threat offensive rebound, put
back type guy right now, there's nothing wrong with that. Many guys that
made her career doing exactly that, But I think Brooklyn made me a little
bit more. Or even if it is just if you find somebody in free
agency, trade, whatever it is, that maybe not just gives you a
different look off the bench, right And I don't think you're you're your big
men all have to be the exact same way. You can guys who play
your lineups a little bit different. So maybe you have you bring a five
in who is a little bit more stretchy, but who can still give you
some rebounding and hopefully some defensive metrics as well too. To me, Brooklyn
is again we say this all about a lot of boys teams where they're not
destitute, but they do have a They have a lot of interesting directions in
which they could go, and they could and they could very rail at this
up like they really could and fall back. And I think the worst mistake
would be to be standing pat and just say, hey, well, this
was a great story. And that's it's kind of the situation. When you
have guys that are off in that way, at some point the good story
runs out because expectations seep in and they're just there's just not the workquisite talent
to be able to make a better story than like, oh that was cool.
Hey you ever twenty six a game these last twenty games of the year.
Oh that's awesome, But are you superstar? Can you lead a team
into the playoffs? Can lead team and not be you know what? To
me? Again, they were the sixth seed, but probably were more like
an eight seed or playing team really, and if you bring this roster back
as currently constructed, there's a very very good likelihood and that's where they'll be
in the playing game next year and maybe even out of the playoffs, depending
on how other rosters and matchups go. So Brooklyn, hey, it's it's
not bad. Obviously, the Katie Kyrie era really really ruined things and ruined
expectations. But you have to move on from that. There's just no choice.
Like the basketball doesn't stop, so you can't cry over spilled milkcare.
You got to keep things pushing. And a lot of that too has alluded
to, not only with the Ben Simmons situation, but it is a Cameron
Johnson sum tuations. Even the Camp Thomas situation how do you get better from
here? With the draft equity that you have and the players that ultimately may
be interested coming to New York to play anyway? But how do you make
that all work from a solid cap stampoint? Final final question for you,
Sean. Do you think Sean marks made up for you know, essentially what
he's gonna be or hasn't been? Yeah, so okay, no, no,
and and and and and it's not for lack of effort. I think
it's just it's just such a monumental just fall and failure on on all sides.
Everybody plays a part in it. He played a major part in it
as well, So he's got a lot more to do before he can make
up for that. Do you think he'll be here in order to to to
figure out a way to kind of do that or No. That's a really
great question, you know, I think that's a really great question. This
summer will probably be a huge bridge one way other. You know, it's
the fork in the road for him. Either you're going to hell or maybe
you're going to purgatory. You know, I wouldn't even say even him a
highway to heaven purgatory. I can't even say happen, because what happened with
this Kyrie KD James Harden situation is it's it's an epic failure. So is
he moving in the right direction, sure, but it's surely it's baby steps
that it's going to take a very, very long time I think for the
Brooklyn faith Ball to forgive the transgressions of the past. Here. Oh my
goodness, man, you talk about a rugby shot. Ask me, man,
I'm just trying to tell the truth and listen. This is why we
this is why we do eulogies, right, I didn't know further or not.
You were given one for the team of Shaw Marks. Oh man,
awesome show. This week's Sean Man. So much good stuff, um,
tidbits of information and just flavorful things. Man. With regards to both teams
again in the same division, both obviously got outsted really in the same kind
of fashion, unceremoniously, but um, it's obvious. Man. It yields
for us to keep our full attention on what offseason are going to have to
be decided upon and ultimately made before we start buying into the viability of both
of these teams repeating themselves. Possibly there's you know, next season to do
not the same, if not better. Uh, you know, as far
as their abilities to hang and compete and maintain in this Eastern Conference, gone,
yeah, I mean it's teams with talent, you know, and at
least that's like they have that they have some starting point in terms of time,
and both of them different starting points and even different draft equity. And
now Toronto has a problem not even having a head coach, and that ultimately
will help them decide the direction that they go. But two really great teams
that I think again, uh, there's always a hope of the next season,
and if they can get a couple things right, they can both be
firmly planted in the playoff conversation, not even the plant if they can get
some things right. But that's a big if. And you know, you're
competing against what thirteen other teams you know, within within the conference who were
trying to do the exact same thing. But I like where Brooklyn and Toronto
are both that for right now, um, and hopefully they will make the
records of decisions that that put them in a position to be better than they
were the species. I really want to see who takes it that that that
step forward, that leap forward, right Bridges or Siakam or Barnes or Johnson
if they're I don't know if you can get another letter letter level out of
Siakam though, I mean at twenty five. That's what I'm saying. I
would be very interested to see if if that in and of itself could possibly
happen. No listening, So we've seen, we've seen the crazy, right
like you know what I'm saying, but you're saying, the likelihood of it
happening is very you know what I'm saying, minimal, Like you're not on
the you're not a ride in the belief train. But I want to buy
I want to buy into the idea that somebody is gonna try to take that
step forward and and and and elevate themselves into me. These are the only
options that we've got, you know what I'm saying, Unless somebody makes a
move, so it nonetheless, it's it's gonna be musty. TV. Didn't
know of how you slice it, Yes, sir, absolutely all right.
Once again, man, we appreciate you and yours for hopping overboard with this
this week. For the baseline, Kylie Warrent, yall, we appreciate you
guys. You know we do. We'll catch up with you next time.