Hello everyone, and welcome to the latest episode of Hardwood Bucks. This is Sadam from Will here with my always fantastic coast Dan for Valley, both thoroughly exhausted from daily life plus trying to keep up with what has been a hectic and engaging first round of the NBA postseason. But we are shifting away from the playoff coverage for this episode in favor of the teams that did not make it. So we're going to start in the Eastern Conference, going from the team that had the top finish that did not make the playoffs of Cleveland Cavaliers, all the way through the bottom of the conference with the Orlando Magic, asking what we think is the single biggest question going into their offseason process. Before we dive into any of those questions, though, I have one for you, Dan, and that's as always, how's it going. I am doing pretty good. How about yourself? Hanging in there? I'm usually better when I don't watch the Hawks these days. They did win a game. I was shocked, genuinely dumbfounded, and look, if you can't if you can't win when Kyle Lowry's out like this was just like it was, Oh, I mean three one. It's over anyway. But yeah, I'm glad that you're persevering through the Hawks loss. Though in other that I can't do you think Rudy Gobert should been finding twenty five K for saying fuck the talk on air? I know that. I think you shouldn't be paid for saying it, right. I know that's a drop in the bucket for him anyway, but that just seems like that's so cheesy. It is. I am excited to talk about not the playoffs though, because one from just a content creators perspective, I'm tired of putting things out that are just dated immediately. And it's also good I think we forget at least of the first two rounds of the playoffs. I feel like it's easy to forget that all these other teams in the league exist that aren't in there. And so this is a fun exercise to go through and it helps you with prep for for the off season. And like I said, from the from the business side of the content perspective, I like evergreen content as much as I love The playoffs have been entertaining as hell. I still have no idea what to make of Grizzlies Timberwolves, like I none whatsoever for that series, but I'm excited to get into this exercise. I was at the third game of Nuggets Warriors, and a friend and I were walking through the stadium and looked at the TV that had that game on, and all of a sudden, the Grizzlies were tied, and it was that was the game that they came back from what like twenty six twenty seven down. We had no idea how it had happened. And that's this series in a nutshell. I think, also the series in a nutshell writing the Wolves off, saying that they after that, there's no coming back from that, and then it's just we're going into game five, tie it to a piast? Do you want to start us off? Though? With the Cavaliers, We're gonna try. We say this all the time, but I am going to have a clock here. We were gonna do eight minutes, but when I went on the box end one with Coach Spins, he did seven minutes per team, and I feel like that gives us some leeway if we do actually go over to maybe the podcast will actually be an hour. We'll see. And also seven by seven's catchy, so I'm stealing it. The idea is not stolen from Spins. We did a different type of exercise, but seven by seven, thank you. I mean, I guess second seven by fourteen. But we will have the Western Conference probably next week, because we will. I'll do something with the playoffs later this week. But we're trying to go seven minutes per team, which entails me actually remembering to keep track of this. So my phone is in front of my face and we're starting the clock on the Cavaliers. Mister Adam frommel what's your biggest question for them heading into the offseason. I think from a transactional perspective, the obvious question is revolving around Colin Sexton. Is he going to come back coming off this season that was cut short by injury? Is he going to go elsewhere? He said that he wants to come back. Are they going to But I think even more importantly is if he does come back, or if he doesn't and they're relying solely on internal improvement, is there enough in Cleveland to improve an offense that finished the bottom third of the league. Because this defense is phenomenal, but unless the offense catches up, it's too susceptible to these these these ugly losses that ultimately kept it out of a true playoff position, forced it into a play in game which did not go so well. And I'll clarify this quickly, and it's very clear that you approached it the same way. And it doesn't pertain to the Cavaliers. I steered clear of since we aren't the draft lottery, who are they going to take at number such? Inside, I have nothing about the draft in any of mine. So just like you know, when we get to the Pistons, the magic specifically, that stuff is relevant. So just wanted to throw that out there. Mine is and look, that makes sense. You also have to ask, this is a question that's branched off of that is do you have Garland Sex and Lavert on the same team? Is that something that you want or should do? And my question is kind of in a similar vein of do you need you know, what's more of a priority for this team. Is it getting a wing so that Larry Marketing isn't playing the three and you're getting away from the three big line ups that had a lot of defensive success or are you just prioritizing maybe shooting However, it comes where do you want to actually upgrade the Isaaco Coro spot or let's just say you're getting a shooting wing in general? Is that shooting wing? If you sign him or trade for him, do you want him to come off the bench. Are you trying to upgrade from Isaaco Coro? Are you trying to replace Larry marking in? And so there's the inherent question I think that's tied to Sexton of could he get you what you need and a sign in trade because there are very few teams with cap space that can give him an offer sheet that's significant. I don't know what is value he wanted, like four one hundred I think, and I was the last we heard. My guests would be that he doesn't get it just a degree. But that being said, like the only teams that can really and they have to want to have cap space would be Detroit, Indie, Orlando, Portland and the Spurs, and so like those aren't none of those teams spring to mind, like maybe Detroit, but they might actual think San Antonio be kind of fun. They just had so many guards right types already, and Orlando was like he probably really upgrades their offense. But you have col Anthony and you just you have a log jam there. If you're going to add to that or decongest it, it needs to be for someone better than Colin Sexton, also Jail and Suggs. There's overlap there. But is there like a you know, I thought about what do you think about him in Washington with Radley Beal? Is there like a sign and trade there to where maybe get KCP or Kuzma as part of it, and you're that might be my favorite fit, just again from a purely fit perspective. But as for Cleveland, like I think it's the shooting wing raps. That's what I would like to see the Cavaliers do, even if it does come at the expense of some of those three big lineups that, as you said, had defensive success, because I actually do believe in the internal improvement route for this offense, if only because of Evan Mobley, where he struggled a good bit on offense as a rookie. But you could see those flashes, the face up game, the turnaround jumpers, the ability to create off the bounce, and you have one of the five best passers in basketball on your team already and Darius Garland. I don't really want someone like Sexton who's going to take the ball out of his hands a lot well, also probably hindering some of that growth from Mobili just by virtue of the missed opportunities. It's nothing I'm not trying to take away from Sexton's game so much as saying there's a little bit of overlap that it might prevent the growth we could otherwise see from this team. Yeah, I do think you point out that Mobile is going to have more to offer on the ball, you have to be willing to stomach it. But if you have Lavert, Sexton, and Garland on the same team, even if you're staggering them, one of them is we're going only to resumably come off the bench, I would think then you are still sort of allocating touches away from him, And so it sounds like you would go the let's see, and it could be if you want to keep Sexton. I'm not saying that he's not worth keeping. Maybe it's a do you make the either or decision between him and Lavert because the verse is going to be a free agent after next season, is it right now? So do you see what you can get in a lavert sex and package, I would argue you just based off age and even injury history. Now, given that Sexton's coming back from his first major one, sexon is gonna let you more alone than trade, and so I think that's the route. I would explore that being said on the Sexton front, because you if like, are you matching Let's just say there isn't a deal to be had, are you matching whatever offer assuming one comes that he receives and then figuring out later. Or if you're the Calves looking at the complexion of your roster, knowing if he's go, let's just say he costs you north of twenty millions. Still, is there like a leave it point for you where you're like, well, let him walk away for nothing. I would probably upwards of like eighteen a year. Wow, I think I would just sign it and figure it out later. I'm not gonna line. Maybe I'm just higher on Colin Sexton and a lot of others. I just I can't get some of the reporting that we heard throughout this season out of my head, just about like the locker room issues and whatnot. And I think that's like that's too important with a young team, that's that's clearly on the rise, I guess. I also view I view through the framing of because Lavert's going to enter free agency, still having Colin Sexton at the end of the day isn't the worst thing in the world, because there's a chance that you don't have Lavert going forward either and you would still need the secondary scoring, and I do think Lavert's the better. It's also like the easiest thing to go find a secondary like I guess because if you don't think that Colin Sexton can be the secondary like I don't want to say floor general, but the secondary ball handler to where he can create for others, I think he can at least fulfill the secondary part of that role because that the scoring is fine. Like you can go out and you can find a fucking you know, Jordan Clarkson, but you can That's more of what I mean. Yeah, I mean the creation aspect is interesting, but that also presumes that Colin Sexton is able and willing to create, which is a role that he does not often like to fill. I would say I would have loved to have seen him more extensively with a talent. Just having the two bigs in globally, and Alan opens up options he hasn't always had. I am with you, though I'm a team like you need to explore the folk stent of Mobile's offense, and so I would prefer to move. It doesn't have to be Sexton, but I do think he met you the most. Can you address the shooting wing stuff by using Sexton as bait and assigned in trade? That would bring us over to the look fifteen seconds to spare on that team. Let's start the clock on the Charlotte Hornets. We have to talk about. This isn't the biggest question to me? Who are you going to hire from? Who you're gonna upgrade from? From James Barrego? Is there an actual there's an upgrade if you're signing Quit, if you're signing Quinn Snyder, or maybe even if it's a Kenny Atkinson, or if you really are high on Darvin Hamm. Here are my thoughts on this, and this is leaning into my actual question. What was James Barrego even the issue in Charlotte? Because I can come up with and Kanada Edwards, who's a podcast rooster at CBS Sports, he was tweeting about this. If you think Barrego just sort of lost the locker room and the players were done with him, and he was adversely impacting your relationship with Lamello somehow, fine if he The other thing that I didn't see people talk about is if you wanted Kai Jones and James book Night to get more run this year and he didn't give it to them, I don't think either of them would have solved what ails them. Okay, I get it, those are defensible reasons. The stuff that I have seen that even that, even with that latter one, though, like it's it's often tough to pin that on the coach because it's also like an edict from the front office, you know, like what you're trying to do right now, if you're trying to win now, if you're trying to develop, it's that's not solely the coach's responsibility. Also, I also want to make it clear, I don't think the front office wanted it to happen at anyway because they traded for Tres mid season. That's not a trade you make if you're trying to open up big man minutes for a Kai Jones. Right The thing that gets me here is Charlotte improved by winning percentage like relative to last season, by by the equipment of five or six wins. This is year two of Lamello. I get that maybe you feel like you're on a clock, more so with him because of the iffy landscape with how big qualifying offers are getting and will someone eventually take it or try and request a trade. Look, I'll believe it when I see it. There's so much money in that post rookie extension, life changing money, generational money. I'll believe it when I see it. But the other thing is what was James Barrego supposed to do with this defense? The two things I would argue very quickly are they didn't finish in the bottom ten of points allowed per possession. They underachief, overachieved. Excuse me like that with this when you look on paper too, if you're going to be mad. I saw the stuff like, oh, he didn't maximize or optimize the defensive coverage with Mason Plumly in it. It's Mason Plumly. If that's like his failing grace, something's wrong with the way your roster was built. And just as a bonus, I also saw people pointing out teams defend really, some teams defend really well when they play small. Okay, well, some teams don't have Kelly Oubre junior or like Cody Martin as their best perimeter defender. Like that's just you doubt like you were dealing with a Miles Bridges who increasingly feels like the most aimlessly versatile player on defense I've ever seen. Not ever, that's me, but again, so I want to hear it though more Vrego. My actual question had to be, like, are they going to go out and really significantly upgrade the center position? But I want to know what I mean. I had the cop out answer or the cop out question here, which is like who is going to coach this team? Because I think it's the biggest thing that matters, and the answer should be James Vrego. I think that the biggest argument I can see against him is the effort one, because the team did come out flat in both playing games, and that's pretty inexcusable, and it's it's hard to see how that happens for a team that is fully bought in. It's also a young team that hasn't been there before, and I just I can't kept past the amount of player development that we saw under his supervision when you go up and down the roster, and so many players improved. LaMelo ball leaps and bounds better on the defensive end. Also, you know, more of an effectively aggressive version of himself on offense. Miles bridges in the most improved player conversation. Both at the beginning and the end of the season, we saw jumps from Terry Rosie or Cody Martin turned into a really useful player. You know, it goes on and on and on and on. So it's hard. It's hard for me to come up with a good justification for this unless it is, as you said right off the top, solely about whether he lost the locker room, and we quite frankly don't have insight into that. Opry go ahead. I don't know at this early stage of their off season who I would tap to replace him. I don't think we know everyone who's going to be available. Quinn Snyder again, as you mentioned, would be a dream higher if he's available. I was gonna say, like if you told me you got rid of him, because you really think Quinn Snyder's walking through the door, right, I think there might be other available coach, just like Steve Nash who you want to avoid. Look, don't have a head coach, Steve don't charge of as Jason Concepcion said, only handling the vibes. Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving handle like the xs and os is very clearly because there aren't many xs and os, not messy. It's it's pretty simple. It's an X here and an O and an O there and then the four other xes in the corners. So no, I don't I don't know who I would even want them to go after at this point, but James Braco seems like a good option. The uh so I had the center question of what are they going to do to upgrade it? Because I think that you absolutely need to upgrade it. The question is will you you don't have money to spend and your your financial situation is going to get a little bit more fickled, which is would be the other question here. They have no option other than to match whatever offer. She Mosber just gets correct as soon as you just you have to. You didn't move him before. You should have signed in through an extension, I would bet would have been significantly less than the max. We'll see how much he ends up getting in free agency that time. Then it's when you get down to the center conversation, it's are you willing to use either book Night Jones. You have luberd junior salary, you also have Gordon Hayward salary. Are you willing to go after a Miles Turner or Rudy Gobert or are you going to go like the cheaper route where it's I don't like, I don't Nicholas Claxton Mitchell Robinson maybe does need to be signed in trades anyway, just because are they going to get more than the mid level? I guess they could. Do you trade for something like or do you go after Chris Bouche or Kavan Looney? Which route would you go? If? I mean, we've we've talked about the Gobert and Charlotte option before, and if that's even remotely feasible, that's where I want to go, because you know he's owed four years and like once yes, yes, especially because that that becomes easier to do when LaMelo ball is still on Rooky scale. I would you figure that part out later? Right? I just would wonder if even before Lamello having Rudy Miles Bridges on his new deal. I guess you're getting rid of Hayward, but then you have rosiers like basically one hundred million dollars deal, it's a prime million less than that. The other benefit, though, is if you bring in someone at that price point or a similar one, then you guarantee that there is a snowball's chance in hell that Russell Westbrook is wearing a Charlotte uniform. Wait, I'm sorry, what run that back? If you overpay for a center, you don't have the budget to go out and get Russell Westbrook. Oh that's my other that's my other big question for Charlotte is who can we petition to just not call the Lakers. The only thing I'll say on the Westbrook's front is if you're getting off, if you want to just reset your books, and I know Charlotte's not a free agency destination, but you want to use it for trades or something. I would understand Westbrook's expiring and if you're going to actually go through rebuilding or do you buy them out or whatever. If i'm them, I'm not getting gobear, I feel like the cost would be too high. I would look at like, so the cost that came up with for them, and we can wrap this up there is if let's say the Pacers are still willing to trade Miles Turner, are you doing Hayward PJ. Washington then the number fifteen or thirteen? Yes, And I do think that leaves you with enough assets to then because you don't really have great wing defenders. I think that would leave you with enough assets too if you wanted to turn around, give your other first round pick plus book Nighter kai Jones plus Terry Rosier or Ubrey for Jeremy Grant. Like, if you're getting kai Jones at a pick and you're Detroit and then you're getting Rosier, are you saying no to that Jeremy Grant trade kai Jones. Let's say kai Jones number thirteen and Terry Rozier. No, I probably probably do that one as well. I think they might prefer Ubrey, which is like, if I'm if I'm going to take on Jeremy Grant and pay him, I'd probably prefer to get off ter Rozier's contract. They're going to be their low key might be one of the most fascinating teams of the off season. The Barrego one who is next up. The New York Knicks are going to be next up, and my question for them, we just put two hours on the clock, okay, go. My question for them is who are the building blocks here? Because until you determine that, it's really tough to figure out where to go from here. And if you look up and down this roster, there are what five or six players where you can ask the is he a building block question and not really have a clear answer. Julius Randall looked like it last year, did not look like it this season. Are you trying to move him? RJ. Barrett probably the most clear cut yes answer to this question. Mitchell Robinson. Given the complete lack of growth we saw on regression in some important areas, I'm not sure that he should qualify quickly. He just slashed thirty nine, two, thirty four, six, eighty eight one. And then we get to like Obie Toppen, Cam Reddish, Quentin Grimes, Miles McBride like that can't. By the way, these guys were disaster. Yeah, these are guys where like, yeah, there's some upside. Do you want to call him a foundational piece? I mean, if you do, like, congrats on your perpetual lottery appearances. So I struggle to come up with any sort of feasible, cohesive, concrete plan for New York until you can answer this question, which is just who are you building around? Is it only Barrett? Look? So I would frame it this way to answer your question before we get into mine. There is no one, absolutely no one on this roster that would affect who I target in the draft if I think they are the best player available. That includes Barrett. I don't care if there would be overlap. It just so happens that Barrett would probably be pretty easy to fit into whoever or in a trade. That's just there's the wrong star to target, And I don't think Donovan Mitchell's gonna become available. I would be surprised. I want to make that clear. I don't know if Donovan Mitchell's that star. He's just regressed so much defensively. I would be curious as to is that the guy you're willing? But if you deem him the guy or the next start to come available, there's no one on this team that is impacting the way I view that I just and that includes Barrett. He showed a lot of improvement towards the end of the season, but like until that aggression translates to more efficient finishing at minimum, I don't know that you could call him he is their best building block, and I think I'd be willing to go too deep here and say him and Quickly are the closest you get to foundational pieces. I just think Topping shot of adrenaline, he's always going to be more complimentary than not fair, and I'm just sure where do you land on that. He's probably the closest one to joining Barrett. I still think I would consider Barrett a foundational piece, but not at the expense of doing anything. Toppin is probably my number two in that conversation, which probably says a lot about the state of the Knicks right now because he would not be a number two for almost any other team. The defense is still a huge issue. I don't honestly know what he can do at this point because he exploded onto the scene during the closing stretch of this past season, which is kind of like the silly time of year when we see so many illegitimate breakouts because of opportunity against backups, which is fair. I mean, yeah, and it'll be Topping. I'm out on quickly though you're out I'm out on quickly. I just don't see it. I just I don't see I don't if without him being a lockdown defender, which he's not, I just don't see the offensive efficiency to justify the role that he needs to fill. I that is wow, that might be one of your more That might be one of the more takes that I fundamentally disagree with that you've had the I don't to put him in as a foundational piece and a vacuum. I get that skepticism, but to just be out just on someone who can hit these like long off the dribble threes, has the stop and start floater, I think is getting a little bit better. As if you want to talk about him filling like the Jordan Clarkson roll, awesome. No, beyond that, like, I don't think I see much more. I think he is more likely to fill and I think this player is going to be significantly better just based off how he finishes and can get to the basket where quickly his game is always going to stall out. He is more likely The outcome for me is he's going to be a closer his peak to a Jordan Pool than Jordan Clarkson. Jordan Clarkson doesn't have the playmaking awareness or the I mean, there's the versatility on offense. But I am currently viewing Jordan Pool as a future multi time All Star. I would say that I'm not gonna, I don't think quickly as a multi time All Star. But I to say that he's like Jordan Clarkson, is his ceiling feels borderline insulting. I'm okay with that. My question for them not here to save his feelings, Dan, I'm Michael, yeah, but you are here to be accurate, and I feel like that one's wildly and to just be out on a manual quickly after a year or two when he didn't receive like actual developmental time until like really towards the latter third of this season. Sure what. You're not defending your point, You're just saying, sure what. I just I don't see it, even when it's all even when he is on the floor, like like, can you ascribe some like something to that to other than I just don't see it because his role hinges on shot making ability and he doesn't make shots. To me, it's it's as simple as that. Like that it's it's the fundamental issue is that, yeah, he makes those occasional, super difficult looks that then give him the confidence to keep firing away at these inopportune times. That's a tough mentality to change, especially when he's not hitting them with any sort of consistency. Like what in the statistical profile. Granted, the situation has been bad, the development has been bad, the coaching has been bad. But what has he done that's like concrete evidence that there is something to fall in love with here? He increases assist rate by fifty percent this year on lower usage in general. He also improves his two point percentage by like four percentage points while not taking appreciably easier to what what it's year two. You're forty five percent on twos. Is not something that I'm going to declare as the end of the world, especially when it's not him getting to the rim every five seconds and missing bunnies. So like he yeah, it'd be nice we got to the rim more nine percent of his shots coming at the rim last year, but he's still like sixty three point one percent inside three feet. There are worse marks to have. I agree that the shot selection could improve, but to even be around thirty five percent from three on the volume that he was propping up in lower minutes, on the difficulty that was described to a lot of his looks. And yet it's fair to not say look to say, yeah, we can't you read too much into what happens at the end of the year. But I do think there's value in having a rhythm and the Knicks not giving him any sort of like real functional cadence to where you didn't necessarily understand his role for huge portions of the season put him in a disadvantage. And I'd also be curious to see what a team that's actually more willing to get in transition consistently and afford him more space in the half court to work with what he can actually do there. And so I feel like there's a lot Jordan's tools gotten to play with future Hall of famers in their prime, sure his entire career, and so that has benefited tremendously development. Yeah, quickly, it's not MAXI quickly, he's not Haliburton. Quickly, he's not I'm not putting him the same conversation. To just be out after a year or two, though, feels very premature. Well, I didn't really contextualize what out meets. Again, like Jordan Clarkson, roll has value, is it? Yeah? Absolutely near voters, Yeah for sure. Well there's there's still a lot of value in having that guy who can come off the bench and taken and hit some difficult shots. I just don't know how scalable that is. We'll have to find out. We're gonna bookmark this take my questions. It's already over the time of it is Are they going to pick a direction or still be in the middle. I don't if I was If I was them, yeah, yeah, they're going to remain in the middle because they're the Knicks. If I'm them, it's time to it's sort of the crap or get off the pots an area where it's if you really want the star, there's gonna be it's then it's throw it in. Find the star, there'll be one available, throw it in. Actually try and build what would be real or like trade the veterans and let's see what the kids give you. And I still remain a proponent of if you're the Knicks, and people have told me they think that the Knicks would need to get a first round pick or two as part of this, I'm absolutely creating Julius Randall, Evan Fournier and Alec Burks for Russell Westbrook. And you can try and wave buyout Rustbrook whatever, clean your And first of all, a team like New York I don't think free just necessarily want to play for the Knicks as much as people believe that. Being said, that's a team and a market that can find value in cap space one way or the other more than a Charlotte or a Utah. They're hitting reset. But it also frees up all this runway for the kids. And if the Lakers were going to give you one of their distance like a twenty twenty seven pick to do it degrease the wheels of it done, and I would go that route. I don't think they will, but I am wondering if they'll pick a direction. Will we be talking about in the middle of the offseason the end of the off season. Oh, the Knicks they skewed towards like they went younger, rebuilding or all right, they went all in for player X, and I just I don't think that they have the organizational backbone clarity or vision to who's either one. I'm right there with you at this point, like expecting something better from the Knicks regardless of who's in charge is just kind of foolish. I have a feeling this next team we'll start to class. It was only nine minutes on the Knicks, We'll start the clock on the Wizards. I have a feeling we have the same question for them. But what is your question on the Wizards? I avoided the Bradley Beal one, Okay, I didn't. Is it worth moving any of the young guys for established talent? I'm talking about Denny Audia, Daniel Gafford, Corey Kisbert, and Ruy Hatchimura because they've been resistant to including especially auDA and Hatchimura and any trades to this point. But if you already have Bradley Beal and for all we know the plan is to continue holding on to him, though that is still up for debate, and you have Christops porzingis now is it worth turning any of those guys into something that can help you win now? I think I'm in love with Denny Abdia, so I would say no, and yours actually is. I was going to say, what is Bradleybeal staying or are you actually going to go out and trade for a point guard to play next to Bradleybial. That makes sense because let's be honest and the peak of their powers. We know Russ wasn't a great fit, didn't what he clearly wasn't a great fit? Was John Wall ever really like the perfect point guard to play with people Bradleybial? We probably never saw the peak of them together, to be fair, but who is like what archetypally, who are you trying to put next to Bial? I have a player, I'm just curious. It's what you think. Malcolm Brogden, jack of all trades, do everything, can create for himself. Yeah, I mean that's like the exact kind of thing I would want, except I would like a little bit more on defense. I actually view, like five years ago Kyle Lowry as what I want, which obviously is hard to I don't have an answer. I'm just thinking, like from an archetypal perspective, like who the ideal kind of fit is without within day van Fleet? Is that where he's Yeah, yeah, something like that would be really ideal. Desjante Murray would be really fun, but you're never getting it. This is not like a realistic scenario so much as just a thought exercise. Would you get the thing that I'm so? I think they do have like wings to spare when you look at or wing type bodies in Ruey, Avia Kuzma KCP. Both kcp's non guaranteed. I'm assuming they'll keep him or partially guaranteed. Kuzma is a player option, not for this upcoming season, but the next one twenty twenty three, so both of them are going to be free agent. Twenty twenty three is when I'm getting at. Ruey's gonna be a restricted free agent. I'm keeping Avdia unless you're getting the you know, if you're pairing Dame with Bradley Beal, Yeah, it's gonna cost you. Denny Afta, I don't. I don't think that's winning you a championship. But Beale and Willard would work offensively, That would be absolutely fine. Would you do KCP or Kuzma or one of them and Ruey for Malcolm Brogden. Yes, I'm out on Ruey, so if you want to call me out there. The shooting improved this year, the shot selection is still bad. I don't know what he is on defense, but if I'm Indie and if you're shopping Malcolm Brogden, I assume it's because you're cold concerned about his injuries. He's missed an average of twenty eight games per year over the last half decade, and so that extension three years sixty seven ish, it's a little concerning. If you're Washington, are you willing because look, Kuzma was so good last year and so was KCP. I think kcp's better defensively. Kuzma probably gives you, I think, more balance, just because he's not gonna If you want someone to create, Kuzma might be the better option at this point. That being said, I'd be reticent because you're putting Malcolm Brogden and Chris stops Porzing gets on the same team, just as injury risks in general. Is that too much to It's not like Bill had stayed perfectly healthy either. My counterpoint to my own counterpoint, the counterpoint to my counterpoint. If you're keeping Bill like it's you have to make some of the boulder when they have to. You have to because you can't just keep treading water. At some point, he's gonna say enough is enough. And maybe I think the you know again, it hurts your win depth a little bit. But the way Avdia played defense to leave this year, and if you're keeping kcpn or Kuzma, I think that gives you enough. And look, if Indie just wants off of Brogden's deal, figure out a way to step ladder your way there. I know it would take a lot, like could you do it before the off season at that point where your roster spots would be weird? If you can do it without including KCP or Kuzma, do it. I just don't see the path there. It's tough to find one because I think what you would have to do, and again this would be predicated on Indie saying, okay, we want to just get rid of Malcolm Brogden's salaries. You have to guarantee is Schmith's salary, which is four point seven. You pair him with Ruey and then I kiss Burt. I don't even think that gets you there, and you would probably have to you know, Vernon like Isaiah Todd. I don't even know if that's enough money, but it would have to be something like that, and those never happened. So that was my Brogden was the archetype of player. I'm just not the other player I thought about too, since we still have some time left here is I don't think they could because they already did a deal with them, But could you get in on the jail and Brunson side in trade sleep stakes? He would be perfect next to Bradley Beal Probably not. Yeah, I think the financial path is pretty difficult just because Dallas's defense. You could argue, I think when you look at their rotation, like, yeah, they could use more wings, but it's like, well, why they just had like a top seven defense block got a lot better alongside Smith. And look, point guard's a tough market to crack because there's like Carry Irving. Maybe Ben Simmons, James Harden. Oh wow, Philly's not gonna get rid of James Harden. Uh. By the way, my Galaxy brain trade idea would be Ben Simmons for Rudy Gobert and Royce O'Neil over the offseason that I feel like we would just like create this black hole in Utah though, because after after all of the Donovan Mitchell first Ben Simmons Rookie of the Year stuff, like that's why it's the Galaxy. Great take though, but they finally get a perimeter defender. They's just no longer to have the generational room protector behind him, or like any chemistry that would be that team would do that lasting vibes, no angles. Yeah, yeah, they have to hire Steve Nash. So yeah, I'm just I can't when I'm thinking, and look, you're not gonna if you're gonna use the mid level exception to try and address your issue in free agency. It's just it's not going to happen for the names that are going to be available at that price point. And look, the free ency market is so bone fin this year. When you're looking at point guards, there's Kyrie Irving, Jalen Brunson, and then it's like Patty Mills as a player option, there's Ricky Rubio. I don't think he's a good fit for Beal. Joe would be interesting. You seem very excited about this point guard market. Oh, it's the free enzy markets a disaster in general. But here's a name that I think. I don't think this is the answer highest owns. I love Taias Jones's game, and he would be a fit with Beal. I would It's a it's a much lower end fit, but it's a fit. Nonetheless, I think it's a perfect fit, but it doesn't take enough of the playmaking responsibilities away from Beal. You know who else would be interesting? And I can't say this with a straight face because you're going to assume that it's a joke even though it's not Monte Morris. Why is that? Why would I take that as a joke. I think that's a great ideah awesome, just because I can't say anything about him that's complimentary without just people assuming it. I get Look, if you're Denver and like they offered you KUSMA or KCP for probably preferably KCP, really interesting and I don't know who you could do it. I think you have to include something else. One for the money, maybe Zeke Nagy, I just have to move to DC. If that happened, would you do that for both teams? Zeke Nagy and I meant what I move for. Yeah, I think I think that would be a good mutually beneficial deal. I don't think that Washington really needs another backup five, but like you need something even more so than money, Like you need something other than Monte Morris because KCP is like they're just like, hey, go guard the best player on the other team and he does. Yeah, that's another team really quickly. I don't want an explanations, rathery Bill on the Wizards to start next season, yes or no. Yes, I'm not going to answer it because I honestly don't know. After the worst, I'm gonna say yes. But there you go. See you did have an answer. After the Wizards. We have a Pacers who are low key probably one of my three most fascinating teams of the off season starting the clock. What is your biggest question for the Indiana Pace How much do you want to bet going forward on good health luck? Because if you do want to bet that there's some sort of progression to the mean when it comes to injuries, you actually have a good team in place right now because if Myles Turner, Malcolm Brogdon, and t J Warren, who it's easy to forget about because he has him played basketball in roughly three decades, are actually there to be paired with Tyrese Haliberton and a lot of the other other intriguing role players in a Pacers uniform right now, this is a legitimately good team that could compete for maybe a top half spot in the Eastern Conference, and they're just adding maybe a top five pick to what would be a intriguing kor already they've all been hurt all the time. Yeah, I'm trying to run through. I mean, Haliburton's fine. TJ. Warren's the biggie, But who's gonna miss what ten to fifteen to games at a minimum? Turner's gonna miss ten to fifteen games at a minimum. It adds up TJ. Warren, though the risk proposition on him, I would assume is lower because I'm gonna think he'll get more than Victor Oladipo did what he had to sign the minimum. At the same time, like, if anyone's giving TJ Warn't a lot of money, is it for more than a year? Probably not. Yeah, So that is my question for them though, are they going to go the gradual rebuild route or do historically what Indiana's done where this tank you know, and we'll call it the joke going around now because everyone like the ethical tank because they they still they didn't they didn't go to the OKC route, even though I think the criticism vote Casey is fucking stupid. But if we're going off what they've done in history, they would try to be back in the conversation for the playoffs next season. That being said, the Malcolm Rock didn't report from Mark Stein. It's not just like this came from someone random either. This is Mark fucking Stein saying that and the way he framed it. Whereas Indiana has given the indication that they're going to trade Malcolm Brogden, and I the only two conclusions I can draw because this is again, this is a Sacramento situation, whereas you don't have to there's no Malcolm Brogden or Tyrese Haliburton like you can have both, you don't need to choose between the two. So if it's not that, it either has to be that you're just so down on Malcolm Brogden's health and that extension that you just gave him, or are you actually contemplating the more gradual rebuild route, in which case who else is available? And I'm one it's is t J. Warren just gone at the point in free ancy. The bigger question would be is Miles turner than still available? Because he's twenty six. He's at that age where it's to me it's a both or not. If you're trading Brogden, it means you're also a trading turner because you have to commit to the rebuild in that scenario, because you're not going to get back even present day value for Brogden given the injury history and the new extension. You're just not So to me, it's either they're keeping them together or they're shipping off both of them. Probably not in the same deal, definitely in separate deals. Barty Lakers fans, My thing would be, and looking at mocks, would be, do they just feel like they're going to end up drafting a point guard? But even like if they go after a Johnny Davis, that's not a point guard. And the first point guard also, this class is bad. That's what I was gonna say. The first point guard to come off the market is gonna be Jade and Ivy, which I don't and he's combo guard whatever. I don't think, Like he goes top four right and we don't know if they're gonna have a pick there. And then after him, it's ty Tye Washington, who I don't like. Would you take him at five or six? So that's why I would agree with you, But that would be the other logic. And then look, there's also Buddy Healed, who I think is still contracts, not spectacular, but just someone who could hit difficult threes at a high clip. Teams should want him, agree, And so if you're trading Brogden, my guests would be I would lean. I still don't know what to feel about Turner if you're trading Brogden, because Turner is so in between, and you also already traded your other big But you could also look at it from the perspective of if Miles Turner wants twenty five million a year in his next deal, is he worth that to you when you're not necessarily on the immediate track and when look, unless you're a megastar center, like teams aren't technically paying you that type of money. The center is such a I know, he spaces the floor and is a lockdown rim protector. I just he's in like that that fringe star territory that makes it. It feels like the idea of Miles Turner is still superior to the actual Miles Turner a lot of the time, if only because of availability. If you are them, then and you are doing a rebuild, and this is the thing that's been going around. Are you doing the expiring contract of Westbrook for brogg Din healed two picks and two swamps, and the first swap wouldn't be exercised in twenty twenty six. The first pick itself doesn't devade a twenty twenty seven that's creating. I would still very much not go that route. I there's the whole conversation about front office security. The picks are just so far off into the distance if you were making the one way I could see it's arguable is one if Kevin Pritchard is just so concerned about job security, he goes and tells herb time and like, look, we're gonna need to like twenty six twenty seven to see what happened, So let me see this through. Maybe it's easier to spin if you are making subsequent deals where if you're getting immediate draft equity and prospects for Turner that you're okay. But even twenty twenty six and knowing that the Lakers could technically luck into another star somehow, I probably wouldn't do it either. But that's just that's been the scenario that I think has been just floated the most since the Lakers season ended. Yeah, I just I can't get the idea of both. Are none out of my head? Here? Do you think? What do you have if you had to guess or one? What would you do to? What do you think they do? I would ride this out because I still believe in the core. But I don't think they're going to if only because of the reporting that we're seeing and from who's reporting it. Because if there's no if Frocton hasn't asked out, and that's still the leading rumor right now, that's one of those there's enough smoke that there's definitely fire situations. I'm with you on every front, except I still don't have a stance on the Turner situation anymore because I could very much see them being Look, he's twenty six, we'll pay him, he'll stay here. We can always move him later. One question that might answer that if they jump in to like the top three of the lot, like if they if they're in chet Holmgroun or Palo or even Jabari Smith territory, does that does that make it easier because in theory you compare a Turner with any one of them. Probably cute, absolutely could but I do think if you end up with one of those three players, maybe it makes it more likely that Turner is available. After Indiana, we're going to move on to the Detroit Pistons and we'll put seven minutes on the clock. What is your biggest question for the Motor City Pistons. My biggest question is Jeremy Grant. Grant question mark. It's just what are they going to do with him? He's under He's under contract for twenty one million dollars next year. It is an expiring deal. He is tremendously appealing across the league because of what he can do as a shot creating, defensively versatile forward who can take and make three pointers, who can attack the basket. He can fill all of those different role and his timeline just doesn't match up with this young and aggressive Pistons team, especially given what we saw Detroit do in his absence down the stretch when they've played a lot differently. They handed a lot more minutes to the young guys. They really made it ka to Cunningham's team, and all of a sudden they were super competitive. So I think that's the impetus they need to actually pull the trigger on a deal here, and it's just a matter of what that's going to look like. Are they going the established star route just at a different position. Are they trying to get even more draft equity to bring in another big name young player to pair with Cunningham on this super young timeline. It could go any number of directions, because any number of teams could and should have legitimate interest in great And also, I've moved away from the the timeline doesn't match the team's timeline. I'm not as for that it is legitimate, especially in this case because he is in the last year of his deal. Yep, and does I don't. I don't care about the age thing. It's just that you're gonna have to pay him four years one twelve is his max extension, which a lot of people think he'll get. And look, I'm all for players getting paid. From a team's perspective, that's not a no brainer decision when talking about a non star. It's just he's twenty eight. It's just it's not a no brainer decision. That is certainly the biggest question for them. The and I did give would you have done the This is like repeating the question. But if you're getting the thirteenth pick Kai Jones and Terry Rozier. Is that enough value to get Jeremy Grant? I think it was for me? I think so. I like Terry Rozier, which lead the question of my for my My question for the Pistons, Sorry I don't know, I can't talk, is how are they planning to flesh out the roster around Kate Cunningham? And this was spins and I had actually talked about this. Are you going the like frenetic athleticism route where because Kay Cunningham is this bigger player who's effectively a point guard, and even Killy and Hayes is big for a six five six six whatever he is, So were you trying to go like with just a bunch of like bigger defenders who can guard all these different positions. You have some debay there already? Does that and does that mean that maybe want a more athletic presence at the five than in Isaiah Stewart slash Marvin Bagley certainly has hops, but not the not the defensive that's future All Star Marvin Backley. By the way, who is he gonna be back in Detroit? He's a free agent. I hope so so and then or are you going that route or are you gonna be prioritizing optimization offensively, which I think would be at this point. It depends on I don't know what's gonna happen in the draft, but give him with Killian Hayes showed towards like the last month or a month and a half of the season where he was putting pressure on the rim, had the floater going. I think you just shooting like it'd be nice. It was functional shooting, maybe guys who could dribble and defend. Which one of those are you? Like? What's sort of those raw shooting shooting shooting shooting shooting shooting shooting? Because Kay Cunningham is one of those error players who can completely control an offense. I'm not talking about a guy who can get his own shots when he wants, but completely control the flow and tempo of a game and look so comfortable doing it. He understands how to manipulate schemes. He understands how to slow the ball down, how to stay calm under pressure, how to draw double teams and find open guys, and he much like similar players like Luca don Chich. You want to surround them with as much shooting as you can to make it a nightmare for defenses because he is so good at probing into these spots, figuring out what a defense is doing, and hitting the open guy that if you can truly play a five outlook with him running the show, you're not going to get stopped. I guess I would just be if you're also, if we're operating under the assumption they are going to move Jeremy Grant, which I agree with you. I think he'll be traded, that's going to compromise your defense, and if you lean into shooting, that could come at the expense of your I do you look at their offense this past season and it feels like there were more offensive flags than red flags. But again, if you start to change up the talent, we saw it with the Knicks who got lucky. They got lucky with their opponent three point shooting last year, but they leaned so far towards the offensive route they went arguably a couple moves too far. Now they had the kembud just didn't pan out. Four day was up and down, Derrick Rose was injured, and if you're making smarter investments, sure, but I do think, and this is spins. It argued in favor of this, and it made me rethink to where I don't have an answer for them. I understand the thought process of Kay cunning him is already so good on offense, and we saw what he did manipulating defenses when he didn't have infinite space around him or dependable shooting and finishing for the entire season around him, Like, why wouldn't you just be like, Okay, the offensive end is set because we have this guy, like, let's car and look, in an ideal world, you're just surrounding him with a bunch of three and deep people and you definitely want some functional like ball handling obviously, if you had to choose between the two. I actually think it's more of a discussion that I was with you going into that, by the way, and I think I still lean towards space staff fucking floor around him and let's see where we get to. Yeah, I just I think that if you say, like, Okay, we have him, fuck it, let's move on, then the issue is the pressure that you're putting on him, because we've seen, like, look at what's happening in the playoffs right now, with Yo Kitchen an injured Nuggets team, where like, even if you're surrounding him with great defensive players, when you task one guy with doing everything on offense, you're tasking him with doing everything on offense for eighty two games and then the playoffs when everything gets bogged down, there's more, there's more bodies being thrown at you, there are more schematic variations being thrown at you, and you can't make you through that. So that's why, like, I think you capitalized on the strength rather than just assume at strength is going to float you no matter what I think. I agree with you too, and I know you lose use Luca Donscious as an example, but until this season, like that was the perfect example. In the playoffs, and now that he has Dinwittiam runs in. Those two are better defenders than some, but neither of them are great defenders, and well they're no Donovan Mitchell. But sorry, that was so unnecessary. I'm tired. If you can get I'm just I'm confused because you just mentioned Donovan Mitchell and defense in the same section sentence. If if you can use let's use the Pelicans this season an example where yes, they have a Herb Jones, which Detroit doesn't have. Maybe they're bad, like look at and you need the one like really good wing defender for sure. Do you think that Sadiq Bay is gonna be kay cunning? Which is fun? But I think there's reason to believe that properly coached teams are able to build schemes where it's okay, maybe we're not forcing a ton of turnovers, but we don't foul a lot we get back in transition and if we're putting enough bodies. Detroit doesn't currently have the capacity to do this, but like they were thirteenth in offensive rebounding, I think so if you're going to put enough bodies around the glass pressure the other people who are grabbing the ball to stop them from getting in transiated, I think it might be easier. And this is only something I've recently even thought too. Is it easier to outperform your talent on offense or defense? And I think it's defense. I think it's defense. Yeah. No. Defense is probably the thing about the NBA. I understand the least. It feels like you can scheme your way into competent defenses, but you can't really do the same on offense without shopmakers, because you ultimately have to make baskets. Look, we went over on the Detroit Pistons longer than anybody. That's how committed were, So don't tell us. We don't talk about every single team enough on this podcast. We're on our final team, Orlando Magic twenty two and sixty. That's a bad record. But what does what does the inevitable talent consolidation process look like? Mo Bamba needs a new contract, but Wendell Carter Jr. And a potentially healthy version of Jonathan Isaac are already there. They have so many young guards between Cole Anthony, Jalen Suggs, Marquel Foltz. They still have RJ. Hampton, Chumo, Kiki. Beyond that, there are more top rookies incoming because they have a chance to get the number one pick. They have two of the top four picks in the second round or top five picks in the second round. So at some point enough is enough and you can't just keep throwing in young player after young player. And what does that process look like? Does it mean that Bomba is walking? Does it mean that you're shopping Jonathan isaing? Does it mean that you're shopping one of the actual young guys. Something has to give here, because, as seems to be the case in Orlando for roughly the last twenty five years, there are log jams in place. I'm totally with you, and it's sort of like we don't know where they're going to end up in the draft. But you look at this team and I think you point to Jalen Sugg's cornerstone until proven otherwise. I know his rookie season was wonky with injuries. You could still see it though I see it too, and there's the load he was carrying at points like but I'm with the consolidation mover. At least you can call it a decongestion move, because even if they're not necessarily getting better, they just need to open runway somewhere. Because my question would actually be, who is the second guy here in Orlando? I think it's Wagner. Yeah, I didn't even mention Wagner because he's still obviously a centerpiece, but I still think it's Carter and then Vagner. So and do you have Jonathan Isaac behind both of them at this point? I don't know, because what is he and is he healthy? I mean, it's taken a long time for him to recover from these injuries. Is that just an abundance of caution? Is it him legitimately having trouble working his way back into the athletic shape necessary to do what he does? Was the offensive growth which is such a small sample of proof legitimate? Until if you have Wendel Carter Junior as your as your five, right, could folks still be the answer here? I mean, he looked really good in flashes. No, he's still young, He's not the as the number two. There's no way. Probably not, but I don't know that. I totally rule it out. What do you think is the bigger neat? And I think even if you if they jump up high enough in the lottery, although they have the they have the second best lotteryatso they might end up with a big in the lottery, which I think that makes their situation even more interesting, because do you think they could go the Cleveland route where it's you know, we'll play Wendell Carter Junior Jonathan Isaac and let's say polo together because I think he'd probably be the best fit alongside two bigs like and then Franz Bocher is just your two and you have Jalen Suggs at the one who knows I want to I mean maybe so draft aside, though, I think let's chat home and run the point. I think between the raft and having Carter or the option of keeping Isaac that they're not Their front court is set, but they're let's just say they're big, like they don't have to like do anything nuclear to figure out can we get a playable big may I're in the front court because Wendell Carter junior Isaac or Wendell Carter Junior plus one of the rookies or one of the rookies plus Isaac could work. What do you think is bigger for them? They do have more bodies, it seems when you're looking at these ball handling guards. Is it finding an actual floor general though, or is it sort of like in like finding like carving out more two way wings so where it's like I think it's the ladder. I think it's a ladder because you don't really like have a pathway to having those right now unless you're a huge believer in oki Keat beyond that, like it's just a void because at least with the ball handling options. There's something there. I mean, Sugs can absolutely turn into that guy who is the all star point guard of this roster, Cole Anthony. I still believe you've in the talent there, even if there's a whole hell of a lot of volatility from a game to game perspective faults. I keep coming back to that because I see the flashes, and if he can stay healthy and is actually given a runaway, maybe there's something there. So I see those options. I don't see the same options on the wings, and that that's why that has to be the answer. I actually go the opposite route because I'm wondering Franz Wagner was okay at the three this year anyway, and I wouldn't call him three, and even though he moved a lot better laterally on defense than I just again, and this I'm not a draft expert, so maybe other people were super high as defense. Anyway, I look at the team and I think Jalen Szuggs is the only person who might meet the criteria of what you just laid out. I don't think it's false. There's the huge hole in his game where you're working with someone who's just going to have that shooting void forever, and that's it's fine. If he's hitting his mid Rangers defenses won't care. They just they won't care. I don't think Colin. I think is that like he seems more of like the microwave jolt of adrenaline off the bench, which is a great player. To my dismay and chagrin, it's not RJ. Hampton. There was always just like a pace to his game where I thought I thought it could be I'm not after this season, I don't think it's him. And I also so for Jalen Suggs. Maybe he can be that guy. I think he will be best suited if he's not where it's the question of can the Wizards put the right floor general around Bradley Beale. Jalen Suggs is in that same umbrella for me, when looking at his peak, I could see him being a much better defender than Bradley Beale. I could see his the ninetieth percentile of his career being better than Bradley Beale's. I just don't think he should be cast, should have to be cast as that floor general. And so it would be more critical if I were the Magic to be like, how do we optimize his long term offense? And I don't think anyone on this roster currently has a shot of doing that for them. Maybe I'm just way off, but I don't like, if you're gonna I want to know who's the person you have to pick one that you're gonna make the strongest case for in that discussion, and I'll probably feel pretty strongly that you're wrong. Is So that's not an invitation to make the case because I don't want to dump all over your takes. But that's what I was fu. Yeah, And just to expand on that even a little more, I think the other thing is it's generally easier to build up a rotation of young players and have them develop if you have a really strong ball handling option on the floor at all times. We've seen so many teams struggle to develop bigs and forwards because they don't have a veteran presence at point guard who's capable of getting them the ball in advantageous spots. So if Suggs isn't that guy, you're putting a lot of pressure on him to be that guy. That's also fair this team is they have so much talent but it's not clarifying at the moment, if that makes any sense, And maybe the draft will be a little bit clarifying depending on where they land. I don't think so. I think it's actually going to be more muddying than not. Yeah, so, you know, but they're another team to watch a lot of these rather fees are fascinating. That was great and shorterter for us. Please remember to rate, review, subscribe to this podcast. We haven't done so already. If you've done all those things, please shout us out, help us promote the podcast, Tell friends, family members, anyone on the internet you know likes basketball. Retweet our promos, follow us on the socials, all of which, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, They're all and they're all in the Which one am I forgetting? Instagram? Oh, Twitter, TikTok and Instagram links are in the podcast subscription. Follow our YouTube channel. We're over one case subscribers, but I am now posting organic content on YouTube in addition to hig and TikTok, so there are reasons to follow us any everywhere, FYI, and join the discord. We're usually I'm usually around during games, not so much when we're recording during a Phoenix New Orleans game per se, like a certain game game for but until next time, do the shout out to the one, the only still in the playoffs, the lockdown, that is, he gonnahead to the semi finals. I think you will. But the jazzer eventually womming and flow. We all know it. Franklin H.