What is crack lacking fellow Thermo new r a efforts. I am Champion Valley.
Hopefully you're hearing me after that. This is the first time you're hearing
me that there was not a long intro recorded to say that this was dated,
because I'm trying to put out some of these look aheads before I go
traveling. And I am very excited as always to be joined by the one
and only thy Windish. Follow him on Twitter, not x which sounds like
a porn site, but on Twitter at tie Windish. That's at t I
W I N d I s c H. He is the co host of
the Eurostep podcast and I don't know founder head honcho of the Eurostep Podcast Network.
You can follow them on Twitter at GCPN network on Twitter. I should
have wrote that one down. I think it's at ESPN Hub, which also
sounds like a point side at ESPN Hub at x dot com is like a
crazy thing to direct people ESPN hub at x dot com and definitely punching GESPN
at x dot com and to your search toolbar. Yeah, and just see
what see what comes up. We're gonna be talking Milwaukee Bucks. I'm very
excited because I feel like this team and I caught shit for saying this on
a podcast, they've flown under the radar, not where people think they're bad,
but they've just flown under the radar. Is offseason, I feel like
because they didn't do mega splashy stuff aside from pay their own guys and work
on the margins. But first we asked the question that I need to know
the answer to, TI, how the heck are you doing? I'm doing
great. I'm excited for these every year. Oh it's a little nervous someone
else will emerge on your radar who's better of which options? There are many,
but I'm glad I get to do it again. This is literally one
of the podcasts I look forward to throughout the year because your questions are so
good. I agree with you on the Bucks flying under the radar. I
catch it for saying this all the time, but it's difficult to quantify,
and it is an entitled kind of way for your team to find the radar,
because it's not that they're underrated, and I don't think they have been
for years now, but it's this is like the Bucks coverage every summer.
I'd say post Drew holiday because that was like, Isian's gonna sign they made
a big move. A lot of people hated it at the time, which
did not age well for them, but it was like since that summer,
it's like, yeah, they're gonna be really good. They'll probably be like
one or two in the East. They have a chance that you know,
they're probably my favorite team to come out of the East. Let's go and
talk about anything else for forty five minutes. It's like, that's nice to
hear, Like I would like to hear the team analyze more on these you
know what I'm saying, Like these shows where it's like, Okay, let's
talk about the Eastern Conference. We got ten seconds of Milwaukee, they're good,
Boston thirty minutes the Knicks, two hours on the Knicks, and really
this just means we're talking about Joel Embiid, let's talk about James Harden,
Let's talk about you know what Darryl Morey's tweeting. So I'm glad to deep
dive the bucks here with you. I will say I must curate my content
properly because when people complain about national coverage and I'm like, I never hear
any of this ship When it's on the Knicks and it's just too won't being
like I'm just not subjected to that. I do think people could flate to
actually bring us to the Bucks. They conflate under the radar with like underrated
or they're not good, and it's no, that's not it's like you said,
they're just mentioning the Bucks are great and passing. I would argue that's
the better alternative too, though. Hearing like just out of touch analysis for
two hours on like what your team should be doing, it's just like,
yeah, we get the Knicks or star hunting, but they don't view this
team as like, oh, we think they suck and like we're not doing
anything. So and I'm gonna skip ahead because this is like deeper in the
outline, but just kind of segues into what we're talking about now. It
does feel like, though, for a team that flies under the radar.
Zach Loo said something like this recently on the podcast. The effect of whatever
the Bucks lose before the finals basically or just have an early playoff exit,
it's always painted as the world is falling for them, or there's this fatal
flaw that they can't overcome. And he said that I'm like, that's accurate.
Why is that? Like why why is that a thing? Like what
is the misconception there or what is the like what is the sentiment? Like
what do the Bucks do that make? I would say nationally, fans are
probably more people in Milwaukee market definitely more like in tune to the to the
steady analysis. But it's what about them is so polarizing that when something goes
wrong it feels bigger to a lot of people than in actuality it is.
I mean, I think in the modern league, where there's not ten years
contracts in their trade demands, anytime a player like Jannie plays in a market
like Milwaukee, there's going to be a little bit of like that internal pressure.
And I think I'm not saying like this is media bs, like it's
it's real. Jannie wants to win and as as small market affectionate as he
is, like there's other places where he could go and like go to restaurants
and you know, not get mobbed, right, Like, there's not it's
not Milwaukee and then twenty nine big markets in the NBA or even you know,
there's other small markets that are very competitive as well. I think the
back and forth between fan bases around Jannis and Luca has always kind of existed
and will continue to rise up as and maybe maybe neither of them ever moved
teams. But I do think there's like, you know, both sides are
like, oh, we'd love that guy, that would be a fun pairing,
huh. And so that's out there, and I think that's part of
the reason is you have that player in Jannis who pre this playoff run from
Nicola Yokich, it's pretty much been the consensus top player in the league for
you know, three four However many years now you know there was he was
winning. When he was winning MVPs, it was less consensus post the MVPs.
I think in pof course championship run, he's kind of been locked in
there, and now Yokich is getting the line's share of that discussion, which
I think makes sense. To be clear, I'm not like the Salty Bucks
guy about that. When you watch a guy do it like that, and
do by do it, I mean, you know, rampage through the NBA.
He deserves to have that mantle for the next season. I think,
like I was saying Kawhi was the best after his run with the Raptors,
because it's like, all right, if you tear everyone's throats out for four
rounds like that, like you can wear that next season, like someone has
to prove it. Sadly, for Kauhi, we haven't really gotten that showdown
that we should have because of all the injuries. But but so I think
it's really just comes down to that. You know, it's and they're and
they're older too, They're not They're not the Nuggets. They're not the Nuggets
where you know, even if they had lost this year, maybe it would
it would start to get a little louder just because you're you know, how
do you not winning when Yoki plays like that? But Murray and Porter and
them are so young and their team is put together, it's I think it's
more it's more clearly sustainable going forward for what they have on that roster and
their assets. Whereas the Bucks it is kind of like this, it almost
they have like this careening down the tracks, feel of like, okay,
Chris has another injury. We're resounding Brook but he's he's old now, right,
He's still playing really well, but he's old, you know, Drew.
It's insane. I can't wait for the Brook Lopez Dock and Robin just
like shitting on a minute's gonna be really fun to the back and forest.
They have. Drew said he would retire after this contract. We'll see if
that happens. That was like people forget that. I hear a lot of
like, oh it, Drew gonna resign him. I guess he gonna keep
playing. I guess we'll see. So yeah, I think I think it's
like the pressure of having a honest in a small market with a little bit
of an older with an older roster, not just a little bit. I
think it makes sense, but I think everyone assumes, you know, they're
closer to the end than they have been, certainly, And also they've lost
in some pretty weird ways. Like if they had if they went up against
the Nuggets and lost in seven and it was like a great series in the
finals, or let's even say Boston and like the Semis to not use the
finals as an example, I think it would be viewed differently. But the
last two times they've lost, it was Boston in the second round and sure
without Chris. Like I think looking back now and what Boston has done around
that series, I think from a Bucks perspective, probably feel pretty good about
that one, like you got pretty close without Chris Middleton. You blew it,
but you got close. And then of course almost getting swept in the
first round by a play in team. The way they have gone out too,
like that when they lost to Miami in the Bubble, it was kind
of similar, all the expectations and they kind of went out sad. So
I think it's a lot that goes into it. I think it makes sense
the way the way it's looked at to a certain extent, and I think
it speaks a lot to the Buck's culture and what they've built that they haven't
had like the big blow up really after any of these losses, like they've
kept it together. Yeah, I thought there was an overreaction to how they
I still think Miami was fantastic. There's no I missed on them. Whatever
they they are, hashtag built different for the playoff like that. It's the
thing with them, and some of it's ineffable. I still think if Jannis
doesn't get injured, that the Bucks win that series, and that's just Bud
might still be employed. But looking at their off season and specifically what they
did with the encourt personnel, a lot of it, at least financial.
He's built around talent retention. But you get Jay Crowder, get Mollie Beasley.
Just what did you think about like the moves and the contracts that they
gave out this year. Yeah, I think a lot of Bucks fans were
underwhelmed. I mean, we did so much content on who I could get
for the mini mL and it ends up not opening because Brooke rightfully went and
got a contract that demonstrates his value to the league. He probably still underpaid,
but as kind of when when got the extension, sour that he's not
and he's oh for sure, very clearly they thought that he was going.
He was coming definitely. I mean, you know, when Vouchevitch gets twenty
million, he's a fine player and Purdle gets around twenty million. You know,
I do think Brooke is better, and those guys I think got longer
term than Brooke did. But he just finished second. I even sorry to
interrupt you, but four or five, like if he's thirty one instead of
thirty five, Like you're probably like, oh, does Brook Lopez get like
a mask and one forty or something like making out the mask like something along
those lines. Because Vouch is the perfect comparison where it's like Roots a really
useful player. Brook Lopez is way better. He's just an NBA years way
older. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And you know I had the back
thing, came back from it better somehow. I mean, ye, the
dedication he has that last year was like, oh, like, he didn't
look like he looked a little stiff when you get you'd be always like,
no, you're just gonna finish runner up for defense. Yeah yeah, And
I think had a case for I think a lot of years he probably wins,
but I think and even I eventually came to the conclusion like, all
right, Jaren Jackson season is just insane defensively and what he's able to do.
So you know, the minutes played gap was there, but he was
a deserving Defensive Player of the Year. Jaren was. I think Brooke had
a great case too, but they lose them in the MLI, which which
sucked. But getting Chris day one and Brooke day two. I've tried to
make this point, like any franchise that could have signed Chris Middleton and Brook
Lopez to like fifty ish million a year contracts, they would be celebrating like
that would be an amazing summer. You're retaining them, it's easier. But
this is unrestricted free agency, like nothing is given. Look at Toronto,
who certainly would have loved to and they're my favorite. Like no, Bucks
are fine, look what look what it could be. But seriously, like
they really wanted Fred van Vleet back and couldn't do it, Like it's it's
not always easy to retain those guys, even when you are a good team
with aanas. So I think overall it was a very good summer. It
really hurt to lose Javon Carter. I'm still bullish on his potential as like
a true point guard in addition to the floor spacing defender of point guards that
he's been. Did not have a great playoff series though he didn't play much
the last postseason. This year, his minutes were better, but he just
wasn't able to produce as much, which I think probably had an impact there.
And also like the Bucks are just trending really huge, which is an
interesting thing we can talk about, and Javon didn't fit into that much either.
But that's the kind of player you lose when you're a good team.
With this many good, well paid rotational players as tough as it is,
and I thought the additions they made, you know, Crowder and Beasley for
the price points were really intriguing as well. And when you can get Malik
Beasley on Vetman, it really does make you go Okay, I don't really
care about the Minimli then. I mean I would have liked, you know,
like when players get paid, that's all great, and it would would
have made it easier to resign him. But like, that's a Minimli player,
at least in my estimation, so that certainly made that loss a lot
more palatable. Which this is a whole another can of worms. I still
can't believe the Players Union signed that CPA because these are the players right now
who are being impacted. I think maybe not so much. Jake, like
you have to play, and Jake Crowder sat out for most of last year.
Yeah, but like Molik Beasley feels like he I know, he didn't
shoot the ball well, wasn't in the Lakers rotation by the end of the
playoffs, but like if you if it was like let's say January, there
would have been a team that might have given up a first round pick for
just Molik Beasley alone because it was under team patrol. For another, that's
how well he was shooting the ball, so he gat him at the minimum
is huge. What was more surprising to you there, though, that Molik
Beasley was available to the minimum, that Jake Crowdler came back. I would
say Beasley for sure. I thought Crowder even before it was announced, it
was possible when when Bud got fired, because I think that is kind of
that's your bridge right in terms of the organization of Crowder, because he didn't
he didn't play as much. He said he didn't know what his role was
at the time. It's well, you didn't play well in the playoffs at
all, and he didn't. He had a really bad playoffs. My counter
to this, though, has been he had a really good regular season with
Milwaukee. Like I thought, he looked like a perfect hand and glow fit.
He was communicating on defense, he was hitting shots. I knew that
wouldn't last through multiple playoff rounds. But everything else I felt like would just
didn't didn't come together right in the playoffs. And I think there's been some
other quotes too about the relationships between the coaching staff and the players, and
I think the old one to be clear, Mike Brudenholzer and his staff and
Bobby Portis in particular mentioned losing Darvin Ham was really impactful to that locker room
and everything, which as like kind of like, okay, you know,
Crowder says something whatever, Sergebaka who just wasn't good enough to play frankly whatever,
things start to pile up, multiple people saying it's like, okay,
there was something happening there. So I think that was the bridge. And
I think, you know, with the fact that he didn't play well in
the playoffs in the middle class squeeze, Crowder not having a bunch of better
options and just going, well, they need this for and I'm really the
one guy who fits into at like come play here. I think that made
sense easily. For vet Man, I was like, no shot. I
mean, I know he got benched by the Lakers, but I mean the
way he shot, like as an offensive player, I mean that year with
the Timberwolves, he was like a twenty point per game guy. Like that's
not the kind of guy you usually see at this point go for vet Men,
especially after you know he had the legal troubles. But seems like kind
of made it through that and all of those restrictions and has been a productive
player for a while since then. So yeah, I didn't see that coming
at all. I was very surprised and excited to see that signing. For
sure, who do you think winds up being more important than the rotation for
them? That's really hard. I mean, Crowder has a much clearer pathway
to it because they've they always need the four next to you, honest at
the five, and you know Chris can kind of play there. But how
much do you want Chris Middleton Because that's like that's a grimy rule, like
like PJ. Tucker stuff, like you gotta rebound, you gotta box out,
you gotta set screens probably or at least space the floor. You know
Pj's thing was offensive rebounding. It doesn't have to be that scifically, but
you gotta do kind of like big guys stuff while being a switchable defender.
You don't really want Chris doing all of that. So that role is I
think necessary for the Bucks to be at their best. I think they their
default is, Okay, we're gonna play with Brooke and you have to push
us out of it, and if you can't, we probably win. I
think it's really hard to beat the Bucks when Brooke is comfortable, but teams
do teams get stretchy, Brooke can't survive. Okay, now we've got X
four and Giannis and all switchable guys, and that's a whole nother killer mode
for different reasons. So I think Crowder's path to being so is right there.
Honestly, Beasley has to kind of get through a pretty good group of
wing players. I do think he has more upside in terms of you know,
I think he could be a starter, whereas I would be pretty shocked
if Krowder was. But I think his path is less clear. He's really
gonna have to prove it. I think he certainly could. But I guess,
to answer the question and not dodge it, I will say Crowder just
because I think they need that role. And outside of like Thanasis, I
mean, Bobby Portis really is not that kind of player, I don't think,
although he'll be important too, but he'll be fascinating the seat. You
know, I guess how different their configurations are and how different the pecking order
is now that we do have a new coach here in Town. Yeah,
and just overall, I was a big fan of their offseason and said as
much in the pot. The only thing it in like, it's like you
had the ability in theory to keep Javon Carter, and I thought it was
pretty important. I'd make more of a stink about that. I don't the
second Apron stuff. I'm just pay it, like you're good enough to just
pay it, and you're limited enough already on the trade stuff, and they
get at least for this year. It's next year when they really kick in,
it's like, oh, you can't trade like the future first. If
he was more of like a ball handler playmaker type, I would have made
a bigger stink. It's funny I agree with you on Beasley Crowder overall that
Beasley might even have a better chance to start. On most teams, I
might say Crowder is actually probably better suited to play the three because he's just
not three anymore. But on this team, I'm like, no, Like
Beasley probably just makes more sense for them with like Middleton, Jannas and brook
Lopez there. Yeah, but yeah, I thought they had a great offseason.
The thing that I wasn't the same page with and we have not spoken
in podcast form since the decision was made. What did you make of,
you know, the decision to dismiss Mike Puttenholzer, And then what do you
make of the higher of Adrian Griffin? And do you have like any feel
or insight as to what might change with this team or what you might expect
him to you know, instill upon like what we're seeing on the court.
I think you know, it was tough obviously, you know, two years
after leading the Bucks to a championship for Bud to be let go. I
do think their playoff offenses are just too habitually prone to shitting the bed,
so to speak. I mean, it's just happened too many times. I
think in the postseason that where you know, you're just scratching your head both
at what the players are actually doing on the court. You know, some
of the clearly, like Drue Holiday, has maybe been empowered a little bit
too much to make decisions. I think at some points in the postseason.
I think that that is a pretty mild way of saying that you certainly feel,
especially for Bud, more than more than even you normally would given you
know, he had a brother pass away during the playoffs. I think that
that certainly would be impactful to anyone, and it's of course beyond unfortunate,
and I think everyone who is a worthwhile human from Bucks Twitter, you know,
sent condolences and didn't want to pile on the guy or anything like that.
But there were some moments in the playoffs where you know that the old
bad habits as well as some you know, not not calling the time out
to draw up a play late in like game four, Game five when they
had a shot to just win the game right there and they end up going
into overtime and losing. So there were just some some bad schematic things.
And I think in addition to that, it does seem like the players were
looking for something different. And the fact that you know, Jannis was in
on the coaching interviews. Yannis seems to be very involved in who he wants
coaching him for this next chapter in Milwaukee. You know, I'm not saying
Yannis said fire Bud, but the fact that he's involved in this this process,
at least that side of the process, they did a good job I
think distancing and saying no, like the players didn't tell us this, which
you should do as the organization. You don't want to, you know,
put that on anyone. It did seem like, I'll say, it seemed
like the players on the team were ready for a fresh start. This isn't
reporting, This is just from like what's been out there and consuming every little
scrap about this team. So I think for all of those reasons, they
kind of had to. And there's just been so many moments now where it
feels like there's meat on the bone for the bucks. I think that's a
pretty common takeaway, especially from people who like grind tape and everything, you
know. I know Nikaias and Steve on the Dunker Spot love to say,
like you know, they do they do like one side pick and roll or
something. It's like, oh, there's some spice finally, and then and
then they don't do anything else. So I do think it was time to
inject something new into the team. They feel like they got a little stale
this season. I was less of a fan of it at the beginning because
I thought it's I thought it it kind of symbolized this organization believe there needed
to be more of like a wholesale change to the team, and they clearly
didn't go there. About their off season that way, and I was just
very much of the mind like you guys would have been in the conference finals
at least if Jannis doesn't get injured. I understand it more now and if
the fact that you went with Jannis's pick, and I would be shocked if
Jannis had anything to do with Mike Budenholzer being dismissed. Yeah, I'm a
little bit more comfortable. I'd never know how to evaluate rookie had coaches and
I agree that like their offenses lacked like will crib it from the dunker spot
spice. I'm just like what the personnel they have, Like, is there
a room a ton of room for more spice or they need to add elements
in here. And so that's why I'm very interesting what their offense actually looks
like in the half court, specifically under Adrian Griffin. And I know it's
been like it was definitely you know you look at touch and go in the
playoffs. I think this season they ended up like they were even eighth in
half court efficient thing in the playoffs. It wasn't even just like the worst,
but they were third or fourth in half court offense. After Middleton came
back in January last year, and so like, I don't know that there
needs to be a ton of reinvention, like being better adaptable. So I'm
just very curious to see whether that's if we'll see that into how possible it
is, just given the current state of the roster as it lays, Yeah,
I think I don't think it's got to be like, you know,
mind blowing basketball or anything. It just felt like there's so many possessions,
I think, especially in the playoffs. And I know to a certain extent
this is just how star players work, but so much so much no pass
possessions, and it's just like that's just not conducive to good offense. And
I you know, I'm an obviously a huge Giannis fan, and Chris and
Drew Holiday, you know, Jannis ioing against four set players, it's just
not going to be the path to playing your best basketball offensively. And I'm
not saying you just has to set a bunch of screens like Shack, although
that is still their best playoff offense is Yannas screening for Chris. You know,
it's gonna be hard to beat that, But doing that more and just
you know, being a little more inventive with instead of a straight ISO,
Grayson Allen or Pat Connadan set a pick for Youannis and then pops. Those
have been really effective actions when they do it, because if you if you
that little bit of indecision, the honest can be at the rim. If
you lose the shooter, it's a wide open three from a good shooter.
The kind of things that we would see and then they would kind of go
away. So I think it's going to be about more consistently playing I guess,
you know, playing to your strengths offensively, which it sounds like,
you know, like Aj Green, who was actually on our show and talked
about this at Summer League, said, so far it's been like more side
to side matchup based offensive basketball. Whatever that means. I'm excited to see
what that means as well. But I am encouraged that it's not just Adrian
Griffin doing the offense. He's more of a defensive guy anyway. The fact
that they brought in Terry Stotts and Joe Prunty to oversee the offensive side or
at least, you know, assist with that was really comforting to me because
I don't expect Adrian Griffin to be an outstanding offensive coach right off the bat,
considering he is more of a defensive focus guy. But I think you
know, stops from his time at Portland and like being the offensive guy on
the eleven Mavericks. Like having someone like that and then prompts you. I
think it brings a lot of inventive play calls as well. I think that's
really exciting from a coaching perspective in terms of that's probably the best setup you
could do while still getting the personable kind of coach that Jannest really resonated with,
who it seems like is still focused on maintaining an elite defense. You
know. Brook Lopez coming or going was like a huge canary in the coal
mine for me. Like you know, they've talked about wanted to be more
flexible, I think, more adaptive. You know, I think Brooke could
do a zone. You're probably not switching everything with him. Would they let
him go with the price scare them away? The fact that they stayed in
it and out Bien to keep him, I thought also was comforting. I
didn't want to see, as you mentioned, oh you know, we're not
doing brook Lope, We're gonna go away from Brook like to who you know,
like Thomas Bryant, so a new starting center, and that was someone
I was like, I'd be a good backup option. I guess if he
Lo goes, that's way worse. Dude. Sorry Thomas Bryant, but that's
way worse. Thomas Bryant still had my favorite recent trade request. I just
like Thomas Bryant the Mains trade last season to the Nuggets. So, based
off what we know about Griffin, would you expect Grayson Allen to still be
the fifth starter here or could you see him going in sort of a different
direction here where I think it's you know, I don't know why you would
go from Grayson Allen to Millik Beasley at this point, Like Allen had the
better shooting season, And I got killed by Bucks fans when I said,
like, I don't know if I had Grayson Allen and the trade when Mollie
Beasley was on his heater, I wanted the Bucks to trade from Mollie Beasley.
Allen's better defensively than Beasley. At this point, I think it kind
of feels like, oh, it's gonna be Allen or Connaton here. Do
you think of that we should just Pencil and Allen there. Could you see
Griffin kind of mixing could you see even mixing it up on like a matchup
basis with that spot. I don't know, it's kind of It's not a
good answer. I would pencil in Grayson for now, but certainly Pencil and
not Penn. I think Eric Name, who covers the Bucks for The Athletic,
does a great job shared. I think it was him, and maybe
it was Frank Madden, someone on the Bucks Bucks beat of some extent shared
like the numbers with like I think it was like the Big three and Lowe,
the core four, so to speak, the Big three and Brooke and
Pat Connadan and the numbers have just always been really good, and I think
Pat is a very good complimentary player to those four. I think he certainly
has a chance. It did seem like, for whatever reason, Budd just
liked having him as the bench guy. Maybe something was staggering. He would
be a fill in starter occasionally, but he never really got extended, like,
Okay, Pat's the fifth starter. It wouldn't shock me if if that's
what they decided to go with. I do think his game is a little
more refined than we've gotten to see offensively, like he's done some intriguing like
short roll stuff when he sets screens, but it'll be like two possession at
a time and then it's gone. So I think he's got a shot.
And he didn't have a good regular season, he had another outstanding postseason for
Milwaukee. I think he's got an opportunity. I think Beasley does too.
I do think to a certain extent, with a whole new staff coming in,
there is going to be more opportunity for a shake up than really any
season since Bud first got there. I also think though, like Grayson probably
makes the most sense because he's such a good shooter, he's young, he
is a better defender than people think. I do think he's just so underrated
as a player because get that horrible series against Boston, and he looks so
much better at the things he was bad at this season, Like physically he
looked a lot stronger I think not a lot, but like functionally he wasn't
getting pushed around as much. He got in the paint a little bit more.
Of course, then the time expires on him in the Heat series.
He should have never had the ball in that situation. Yeah, everything was
just a mess in that series. So I don't hold that against him,
but I think he's a good point. Kood was gone probably like raising all
can't have the balls, just like eyes wide open, like oh no,
man, this is bad. So I think Grayson makes the most sense.
But I think like someone like Pat or Beasley or I don't really know who
else would make sense to push him. I mean, does mar John have
an outstanding training camp? I wouldn't bet on that. Oh well, we
have to talk about mar John and a couple of questions. I do think
he'll factor in a lot more this season. Oh that excites me. I
have a follow up question to this on a scale, I'm only asking it
this way because I listened to the I was listening to the I think it
was the most recent one you did, or maybe the previous one before that
that talked about Janie's knee, and he didn't really talk about Janie's knee.
It was just like, so, on a scale of one to ten,
how concerned through the Bucks need to be about that Yannis left Nie since it's
preventing him from playing in the World Cups. That strictly just sort of this
preventive measure he made it sound like it wasn't and so it's just like any
time an injury crops up, But this dude's like a top three player and
at worst the top three player in the league, and so you have to
just in the back of your mind just wonder or is it just not like
business as usual. He's gonna go through the offseason. He'll be fine.
I would say three or four. I'm not super concerned. It sounds like
he'll be fine for training camp. The fact that you know, he pushed
so hard to even play in the World Cup still is actually almost a positive.
I mean, obviously would be better if you could have played. Although
Yannis having a real full offseason, it's kind of rare at this point.
So Bucks fans were kind of like, you know, sit this one out,
and I think the Bucks fans were like, yeah, you should.
And I understand. You know, these guys, especially non Americans, really
want to play for their teams, and the honest is certainly no exception,
but I think it was probably the right call for him coming off of that
niscope. Honestly, it's more wild that he hasn't had that thing cleaned up
previously. I mean, some of the reporting after the finals, like they
wanted to wear this special brace, he wouldn't wear it. They like,
I think he said at one point, you know, I was one dad
fall away from like catastrophe, Like geez, Like he's always got knee soreness
that holds him out here and there. I think just like being that literal
freak of nature is taxing on anyone's knees. So I think we all were
kind of like, yeah, he's probably gotta have something done at some point,
right, So I think the fact that he got it done early,
he tried to play a World Cup but couldn't. No one's too worried.
I don't think from the Bucks side, I think it's just we've all come
to kind of accept that, you honest's knees are going to be an ongoing
thing the monitor and so far, you know, knock on all the wood,
he's been able to avoid I didn't make sure I didn't make my dog
up. She's good. He's been able to avoid missing a lot of time.
And as long as that's the case. If he misses a week here
whatever, that's just like fine, that that's a fair trade off for being
able to do what he does at his size. And wait, I think
some people will interpret this follow up question the wrong way, and it's really
just because we know so much about John as we've talked about his counters,
what else he can do on offense, everything he does on defense. Have
you given any thought, just because he is entering his age twenty nine season,
about what his game will look like as it ages, maybe any changes
or adaptations that he would make, how dare Well? Yeah, just because
he's approaching I say, this is a thirty four year old, and it's
just it's so stupid where it's like he's just he's getting older and it's like
he's still four years younger than I am. Yeah, I've thought for a
while now, you know, he's probably should have his back to the basket
a little more. I think that's what makes the most sense, you know,
given his level of skill physically and how carefully he can move. I
think that could be a really logical transition to you know, maybe even being
a full time five at one point, but at least offensively, you know,
playing that role where even if you have someone Michael brook Lopez to do
some of the more dirty work, especially defensively down low all the time,
but being able to create offense for yourself and others from like the elbow and
the honesty's postgame is it's gotten a little better over the years. It doesn't
seem like it's been a huge focus for him. He is kind of known
for doing like one thing per offseason. He really locks in on, you
know, like he got better at finishing, like just driving to the basket
avoiding contact. I'd say, like a year or two ago was really big.
He used to always get charges. He's definitely gotten a lot better at
that. It wouldn't surprise me if a year or two years, maybe even
a little further down the line, he comes back and he's like suddenly posting
up like five times a game or something. And to be clear, like
for people who think, oh he's you know, he's doing all these like
ISOs right now, I would look at that as functionally different. Like,
yeah, he attacks the paint all the time. I'm talking about starting the
possession back to the basket fourteen feet out and creating from there. That's what
we don't see as much. It wouldn't surprise me. I don't think he's
gonna leap into it before, like before he had before he has to stop
relying on you know, everything else he can do. But that's to me
what makes the most sense. I would agree, are you panicking uncontrollably knowing
that he probably won't sign an extension this summer. No, The funny thing
is, you know, super loyal guy has not been shy to put pressure
on the box. I think that's always just going to be there, and
it's it's i think, just easier if you just assume they've got a good
shot at keeping him, if you continue to do everything you can to compete
for a championship, and the team is competitive, which obviously means at some
point here there's a lot of pressure to find new costars, clearly, But
right now I think, you know, they're still favored to be at the
top of the East, and they have a shot and I think in anyone's
esteem to win a title again, I think as long as that's the case,
that they're in a pretty good, pretty good pole position there with Yannis.
But no, I'm not expecting him to sign the extension early. I
wouldn't surprise me if he dragged it out a bit again, Janice, as
he's joked about with his ad deals and everything. You know. Likes to
likes to lock in the money. So I do think he's gonna tack on
four or five years at some point when it financially makes sense to do so.
I don't think he's going to rush to do it though. He's one
of those players where clearly, even if you know something horrible happened, somebody
would sign him for a whole lot of money. Again, so not really
any risk from his perspective. I do think he'll stick around for a while,
but he's not usually been one too at the earliest part. I mean
when he signed the Supermax, it was like right before the season, like
they were in camp. It was pretty nervy, to be honest. I
wouldn't be surprised if something like that happened again, and if it and sorry
quickly, and if it was tied to like it was last a crucial move
for the future. I mean, if you remember, it was soon after
they got true holiday, and I do think it was very much like a
all right, you have to go do something and if you prove it and
you can do it, then I'll sign up. It wouldn't be shocked if
it was like the similar situation, but just with now you know, the
Drew Holiday who's half a decade or a decade younger than current Drew Holiday.
I would say, I agree that there's a level of like, don't find
the extension, you have to continue to put pressure on the organization. But
I also look at it as just like it makes more sense because he can
tack on more years also, and like that's the other thing here. So
I can't bring myself to care about it. I know it's been a talking
point elsewhere. Is there any as we stick with sort of the injury theme.
Chris Middleton comes back and it was like January twenty third, I think
it was last year, shoots like does not look okay on defense for pretty
much the rest of the season, but his offense like it returned. He
shot like a trillion percent on like his turnaround fadeaways after you returned the second
time, the Bucks, like I said, the half core offense ranked in
fourth overall and it was just like whites out. I think when he was
sharing the floor with all Milwaukee's key players. Is there any lingering concern about
how that need injury might impact him this year or is it very much just
like Oh, he gets to go through a healthy off season like this is
great. I think it's more of that, and I think if anything,
funny enough given all the news around this other player, you know, maybe
he just seems to be used in different roles defensively for so long and he
was so good at this, Like I'll never forget that the good Heat series
for Milwaukee. You know, he was flying around with Duncan Robinson and around
screens and he really did that role to perfection in that series. I think
that's a large reason of why they were able to win that so well.
A lot a lot of things went to that, and they've kind of kept
him as more of a primative defender. I almost think that you would hope
certainly he looks a little better just mobility wise, from the healthy off season
finally, which he clearly needed. Another guy who had I think an cleaned
up earlier this years moving the way that Brook Lopez looks like he should move.
Yeah, just doesn't move like he's like super balletic and like really good
at his low stances were a big man, which is like, yeah,
he looks so I don't know the words like so rigid. Yeah, he
did not like, so you certainly hope he's just going to be a little
more fluid. I mean, Chris is not ancient. He's in his early
thirties, So that's the hope that there's more there. But also I think,
like, do you just give him the hard and treatment defensively and he's
big six to seven, like, just put him on slower guys and then
say, you know, if you want to post up Chris, fine or
run at him, like you just can't use him as that premier defensive player
anymore, which is a little more palatable when you have Drew Holiday and I
think, good to okay players defensively coming off the bench, and you know,
is he honest is going to be more involved defensively and less just off
ball all the time. I think some of the answers he gave to wanting
to guard Jimmy Butler last last playoffs makes me believe maybe he'll just be involved
more defensively going forward. That of course then opens up a lane for Okay,
the guys who honest was guarding it ignoring maybe Chris can do some of
that more to some extent and taken the kind of assignments where he has to
be as mobile. Of course, you can get players into actions. You
know, you can never totally hide the guy. But I do wonder,
you know, maybe he has to play some more four ish kind of elements
both on offense and defense going forward. Yeah, that would be That's interesting
on the defensive side because then it would make a lot of sense too.
And I don't know if they're going to be more inclined to try like Yannis
as the lone big lineups because Brook Lopez is getting older. How many minutes
can you handle? But like the easiest way or the most effective way to
maybe get Middleton there is Okay, well, if Portis is on the court,
Jannie is off, go with Jay Crowd or Middleton. I think that
gives you the most flexibility then is like your three four combo or do that?
Of course, with Jannie on the floor, you'd have you know,
Brooke without Yannis, Like that might be the most effective way to get Chris
Middleton to in that No, you don't want him, as you mentioned already
earlier, you want him to be sort of your every possession for but that
the option to kind of flux and fiddle with him in that context. Yeah,
finding those wing players who are not going to be the most taxing assignment,
will say, especially the ones who maybe just spend a lot of time
sitting in corners, which ironically some of the players Jannis has the most defensive
gaffs guarding because he looked to the ball and kind of creep away and give
up those shots, like some of those assignments to Chris maybe obviously honest also
will wreck your world defensively if you don't account for him. But it wouldn't
surprise me if they shifted around things like that a little bit as well.
For sure. Do you have any thoughts on their inbound rookies Andre Jackson and
Chris Livingston And also this is kind of more important questions, like so Javon
Carter leaving and just looking at their backup playmaker situation, do we just expect
a j Green or maybe even Jackson to play a potentially real, semi meaningful
role for this team. So I was pretty high on Andre Jackson junior playing
real minutes, seeing him as a pros after they drafted him. I didn't
I didn't try to cover the five hundred players who could go and you know
they only had like pick fifteen eight going in, so they traded up and
got him, but he looked into him as a player. I thought this
is exactly what they need. I mean they were I kind of wrote it
off or blew it off and was proven wrong. I do think they were
too old last year, and I think it really showed, like Joe Ingles
and Wes Matthews and the already aging core around the honest they had just a
lot of old guys in the rotation. I think getting younger is good long
term, even if some of these guys aren't quite ready to play full roles
right away, Like losing Wes hurt like they I think they had to.
They just had to get younger. They had to give other guys that role.
He was still so good at his role in the playoffs. Man always
root for West Matthews, but I thought Andrew Jackson could play a role.
Did not have a good Summer League at all. I do think part of
the reason is they just had horrible spacing as a team, as many do
in summer League, and just no flow. And he's a player who would
really benefit from like real spacing because of his lack of shooting. It was
just a huge problem. Though. I mean teams darred him to shoot.
I think he made maybe one, Like the whole Summer League, the shot
looks really bad. I think they need to rebuild it from the ground up.
And you know, I've gotten some blowback from saying I don't view him
as a point guard. I do think he's like a ball moving wing,
more of a like maybe a little bit Dante, but like a Gary Peyton
GP two, the mitten kind of player who it's like, you know,
that guy doesn't really initiate the action, like he keeps the action moving.
That's what I view him as. Long terb Bruce Brown is a better like
that would be pretty aspirational. If he was anything like Bruce Brown, the
shooting has to go a long way. So I think it really depends like
how he fits. Early on, I thought Livingston actually impressed me. I
thought he was going to be years away based on what I heard about him.
I thought he looks like physically like a real NBA wing already. He
just needs some refining. Wouldn't surprise me if he made the rotation before Andre
Jackson, at least in spurts, because I do think he's closer. I
don't think either are particularly close though, especially because there's still just a pretty
deep team overall. You know, the players that we could go through.
You know, let's say the starting five as we laid out is Drew Chris
Mason, flip them but whatever, Jannie Brooke, and then we know Pat
Connad and Bobby Portis are going to play a lot. Let's assume Jay Crowder
and Malik Beasley play a lot too. That's already nine, I think,
so then Mark, John Bow Champ aj Green rookies like, they're not all
going to play every night. And I don't know what Drean Griffin yet.
I don't think he's gonna have a thirteen man rotation every game. That would
be pretty Boudenholes or ask of him in the early days. So I don't
think they're gonna play big roles early. I think they'll get chances and we'll
just kind of see. But I wouldn't expect either of them to play.
Funny enough, John Horst called out Lyndell Wigginton, they're two way players.
I know you said you caught shit for what you said about that. I
honestly view Linda winning is like the only possible not that he would play backup
point guard on the roster. He don't really technically on the roster. He's
on a two way. Yeah, I don't know. I know a little
bit about his fat, Like I don't know really anything about him. I
don't know anything about the rookies that are coming, like nothing, and I
yeah Green specifically, I just questioned whether he's going to be enough of the
ball mover to run like these methodical sets. But yeah, please, because
I was like, yeah, I'm looking at this like yeah, like they
have to an actual backup point guard. Yeah, And John Horse said,
you know, he thought he could take some role. I think the more
logical conclusion is, you know, they'll just operate with one and then you
know, have other guys moved the ball and incorporate Honest and Chris Moore.
But you know, if Drew miss his time, which you know, based
on the last few years, probably here and there, he'll miss some.
I do bet Lindell will get called up and be asked to move the ball
a bit as a as a bench player. I do think he's come a
long way. So his thing his first year with the Herd, he was
like their defensive assignments guy for a six one guard like he took on a
lot of the top guard defenders, so he's a good defender like Javan.
He plays a lot of press. And then year two he wasn't he wasn't
able to hit shots previously. Last year he shot the ball really well at
the league bubble at forty plus percent, so really has grown as a player.
I do think they'll give him some some run too. But you know,
didn't have an amazing summarly played. Okay, didn't get to play a
bunch. It's gonna be fascinating though, because I do think Bucks fans really
want them to skew younger. I think they all realized, you know,
okay, what's the future of the team here. You know, I think
we'll probably have to bring in someone from outside eventually to be a new costar
pending mar John. But you know, you need role players too, and
I have to include that, but you need role players too, And the
team was really just like, you know, is it going to be West
and Ingles again next year? How are they going to look in the playoffs
after a long season. Even Crowder is not young anymore, so I do
think Bucks fans want to see these young guys play more, especially mar John
aj Green for sure, who I think was like a diamond in the rough
fine for them last year and the rookies to a certain extent, although they
won't all be able to play every game at all. I also think what
they could try, and we didn't see a ton of it last year and
we've seen more of in the past, is like when you're staggering your stars,
like when Chris Middleton leads the non Drew non Jannis minutes, like if
you want to tether or Drew and jannat together a little bit more. I
think he's like fully capable or just like you have the like he can be
your backup point card technic. Yeah, he's fully capable. I think he's
that good. So Mar John bo Champ, let's get to mar John bow
Champs, what type of role do you have any impressions from his rookie year
You're dying to get off his chest and what are you one watching most closely
with him entering year two and three? Do you expect them to give him
like a shake it? Like we said, it feels like they have nine
locks and that spoils the ten man rotation we build at the end like do
you just sort of pencilman is like that, Oh, they're gonna him a
fair shake at being that regular ninth or maybe the tenth guy. I do
think that, so I almost I look at mar John almost like you hear.
I don't know if you consume any of this content. Like football analysts,
they always talk about traits. That's why I look at with mar John
and there were so many bad and like bad savvy plays year one for him,
but the good stuff it was like, oh wow, Like if if
he can get to what he can do more consistently, that's a difference making
player for the Bucks. And I think one is athleticism. This was like
going along with the age thing, you know, even though like Ingalls and
West Matthews, those kind of guys still played well even in their peaks,
especially West, you know, post Achilles of course, you know, not
jumping out of the gym. And I think the Bucks suffered from that.
Their transition offense was just not very good last year, I think for most,
if not all, of the season, and there was a lot of
head scratching, like is this random variance? Like how can a team with
be honest not be good in transition? The answer is, if you put
three guys on Yannis going down the court, it's all it's just gonna be
threes. Like that's all that's gonna happen, because if Yannest doesn't get to
the rim, nobody else is running with him. Like all he can do
is pass out to the perimeter for a three, which is a good shot.
But you know, they were i think dominant earlier years when they had
more athleticism around him, and there were some fast breaks where you would kind
of see, like the defenses it's funny to watch like kind of glombed towards
Yannis and then he throws it ahead and it's like, oh, someone's actually
behind us, you know, bow Champ beat everyone back and he just gets
to dunk it or whatever, and it's like, oh that we've kind of
not really had that for a long time. It kind of sneaks up on
how little athleticism was on the roster. He handles the ball he in Summer
League. His big thing this year was tough finishes, like he had like
six and ones i think in Summer League, which is pretty outrageous for much
He actually played a lot, like a lot of finishing through contact or at
least like at least fall, but I think it was at hand Ones.
It was a ton of finishing through other wing players around the basket and even
some bigs, and that wasn't really something we saw yere one. He traveled
all the time, like one per game at least he would travel. I
don't know if he did any maybe one in Summer League. So hopefully that's
been a focus for him, because that's pretty hard to be a sustainable offensive
player when you travel once twice a game. But you could see the athleticism
the shooting comes and goes with mar John, that's going to be huge to
iron out. You just kind of assumed that he'll be able to develop that.
Bucks fans are hoping he does not work with lethal shooter who Bobby Portis's
shot has been pretty uneven because he's like shooting through you know, underwater and
at triangles with nails sticking out of him, and it's like, can we
just work on shooting through a normal basket. He's Bobby. We're hoping that
he's done more of that this year. But I think Mary John, it's
like the outline is there for him to be an impactful difference making wing player.
It's just how much of it does he get and how fast does he
get there. I do think this year versus like aj Green, those kind
of options at the end of the bench, I think he'll be in line
for some real role from the start, and then from there it'll probably just
depend on who's healthy, who's playing well. That sort of thing. Feels
like this oversimplifies it, but the shooting, like Stantill shooting, will be
a swing skill in terms of Kenny hanging the rotation, and it felt like
he knew where he needed to be, like when he was running in transition
or like going in the half quarters the season went on. It felt but
like you said, it is a little bit when you're looking at his shooting
specifically, like there's still just too much of a like worse than a coin
toss element to it. Yeah, and I would love to give a shot
because I like like the physical tools there and as you said, they have
Yanna, So this is sort of just it's not massed on the floor,
but it's it's massed in the discussions that we have the teams. Is not
athletic. Yeah, like overall, like from top to bottom, like you
have Jannis, so you have that infusion of athleticism, but to have someone
like Marjehn on the court if you can, like like you said, if
you think he has like some of the four game where you can only trust
him to attack open closeouts in the half court, da goes a long way
to what this team would be able to do offensively then too. Yeah,
and I think, you know, looking at their rookies and even like Amari
Moore, they they didn't draft, but he was like right after the draft
they signed him to a two way as well. All pretty athletic guys.
And I think even there was a former buckstaffer who tweeted o X right after
the draft, right after the Andre Jackson junior pick, like this is just
not a guy they would have considered in the old regime, Like they had
to shoot, right, you had to. It was the Sam Merrill kind
of picks. And even Jordan Wara, who you know, not a little
more athletic, but certainly like, okay, he can light it up shooting
the ball, like that's pretty much all they did for a long time around
Jannis, and of course shooting is important. I do think they'll looking back
and you know, it's easy to buy into this now let's see how they
look this year. But I do think looking back it is easy to say
maybe they over index on that one skill and it left them with too many
players who had incomplete games. And I think that leans into like Miami having
so much success against them, because if the shots aren't falling in Miami can
test everything. You know, their whole roster will go at the guy in
front of them and try and like outphysical them to an extent where the Bucks
I think, weren't as comfortable with that. What is the either biggest concern
or swing factor potential development curiosity about this team you'll be monitoring to start next
year. I mean, just what the offense looks like. It's going to
be a big one. I know we've talked about it already, but you
know, specifically what they do. Also, I think one that I was
thinking about more recently that I hadn't thought of before. It's like I mentioned
this a little bit earlier. What does the rotation look like in terms of
minutes? You know, we've always seen such to a degree of saving the
guys right likes so so responsible minute allocations, and of course Adrian Griffin coming
from Toronto. I mean Nick Nurse was the one I think making those decisions.
But Toronto is a polar opposite, right, I mean siakam And and
Anobi and these guys are are leading the league in minutes, are close to
it. It's like them and the TIBs guys are like the whole top ten.
So will they play a little more. I don't think they'll go extreme.
I mean I do think organizationally, they're still focused on the playoffs more
than anything. And I mean they were the one seed in the East last
year. It's not like you know, they had an issue winning games with
that allocation. But that that I'm interested to see all of the little things
that are just changed that you don't really realize when when a new coach comes
in. I mean, this is a minor one that I do think it's
gonna make Bucks fans lives a little better day to day through the season,
actually hearing from the head coach what's going on or real insight to the team,
which I would say, in like the four times we've heard from Adrian
Griffin, we've gotten more than you know the last six months of Budenholzer,
which again it's you know, it doesn't make him a better or worse coach,
but certainly in terms of covering as a fan, it is kind of
nice to get some actual insight and hear things where you know the bucks before.
And I think this is another organizational thing too, but we just got
so little most of the time. It would be refreshing if there was a
little bit more insight gleaned as well onto what's going on. But really just
how they approach it on both ends Schematically, I wonder will they play more
zone? I think that to me is a sweet spot between switching up the
defense and not going too far away from Brooks. I think you can still
use brook in a zone as that middle guy in a zone or the back
line of his zone. And that's something I wonder, like, could that
be really potent if they had like a you know, something like a one
three one like put Ghanas at the top of the zone or in the middle
of it, Brooke in the back, and then just defenders on all sides
who can dig into the nail and get back out to their guy, Like
is that just a nightmare to work against? And is that something they've they've
under explored I don't know. I'm not a schematic genius or anything, but
I'm interested to see that of stuff too, Like how do they how do
they find other ways to use Brooke because we know what you know what he
can drop. We know that for sure. Okay, yeah, I think
he's solid. I think he's so I think you can manage it if he's
not too old. But that's what I'm excited about, just seeing all the
new wrinkles and how they work and all of that stuff. If I set
the over under on Janniss minutes per game to touch upon your first part of
this answer at thirty three point two, are you taking the over the under?
I still take the under. He is logged over the past five years
thirty two point three minutes. This is average, so that will seem to
be the smart calls to take the the under. I don't know he comes
from Toronto. I might take the over on that. But then that kind
of part of this is by the way, like they don't need Johannis to
play thirty five minutes to win fifty eight games. They just won fifty eight
games with jann Is playing like thirty two and change. Yeah, I'm missing
a bunch of games too, which will probably happen again as well. So
yeah, maybe I'm just gonna take the over just for some variability stake.
But I just look at it, I'm like, this seems just one fifty
eight game. He said he missed time, but he didn't have to be
a lot old a ton of minutes. He might need to lock less if
he plays in more games, he might be a thirty one. Just because
we run away from some of these themes. Oh yeah, what were you
gonna say something? Sorry, No, I just said that's the hope.
So would it be fair to say after this offseason that the Bucks feel like
they're deliberately operating within this two or three year window when you start to look
at when the contracts of sure Lopez, but specifically like Middleton and Holiday and
Jannis contract does it right now? Even Bobby portis all kind of expiring around
the same one to one year time. Is that kind of where where you
think that they're at. Yeah, definitely, I think that's just trying one
of miss I'm not saying, oh, they're playing on Yannis leaving in two
to three years. That's not what I'm refriends. I'm just talking about it
this core specifically. I know you know that, I just don't. I
don't know. I don't want to piss off anybody. Yeah, yeah,
I think definitely. I think that's all you can do given what they have
around here. And you know, I'll do the worst case first. I
can end with the better one if you're honest, were to, you know,
with one year left, demand to trade. That's again, this is
I'm not anticipating this either, please God. But in that worst case scenario
where hopefully or he just walks, which that sucks, you don't get anything.
But if if you know it wants out with the year left, or
gets signed and traded or whatever, you know, do you want this whole
core on these long contracts for a long time past, then you know,
maybe you could say, oh you could trade those guys and get something.
I mean, we'll see how everyone ages. I certainly think the all age
pretty well. But you know, if there were if Chris signs for five
years instead of three, or Brook signs for four or five years, or
you know, Drew extends right now for a long time, or you know,
you bring back ingles at a big dollar amount or whatever it is,
like I think I think they have they have their they're they're out in the
worst case and in the best case. It's also like they have a lot
of flexibility in terms of you know, you don't maybe you're not as interested
in trading for Chris if his money goes through twenty thirty two or not twenty
thirty two, but you know, twenty twenty nine or whatever it is versus
where it is now. And same with Brooke and Drew to a certain extent.
And I do think when you look at where their pivot could happen,
I mean, this could be another one year window where they just signed for
longer than that, because you know, you don't want everyone expiring again.
It's just a mess, clearly. But on draft day twenty four, assuming
they duck under the second apron next year, which maybe the Javan thing could
affected in this could affected into the Javan thinking. On draft day, I
think they'll have three total future first they can trade, they'll have two in
the future, and then one that they just picked, which is way more
than they've had since the Drew trade. Like this is basically the first time
they've gotten back to that many. And I do think looking at you know,
the quality of players they have. They don't just have empty calorie dollars.
Like any player they're trading pending a change in this next twelve months is
a real player. You're getting at least good value I think on the contract
plus three first plus some seconds whatever else they have, you know, mar
John, these rookies, whoever looks good potentially, I think they could really
get in the mix for trading for next disgruntled star who wants to play there.
And I think we'll see. I think they'll always be better offers.
You know, one's competing with Okac, right, but I think they'll be
they'll be in the mix. And that's what interests me is, you know,
can they can they find that move next year? And then then you
make the case to be honest, we've got your next guy. You know,
he's he's in his late twenties two or mid to late twenties or you
know, just close at that point, early thirties compared to mid thirties like
Chris and Drew will be basically by then. You know, I think that's
what they have to look for. They have to have a pivot, because
clearly, be honest is not going to be wanting thirty five, thirty six,
thirty seven year old Chris Milton as the second best player his whole rest
of his career as much as he likes Chris, so I would say three
windows would even maybe be long for this core. I think before that point
they'll be looking to find someone to come in. And I mean they sniffed
around Bradley Beale, which I thought and that was reported multiple times, like
they really looked into that. Probably would have taken Drew holiday get that done
salary because the money for sure, and I mean they were they were right
there. I think they were trying to do it and win him over.
Like I think they're clearly focused on finding that next co star, that perimeter
player, and I would surprise me if they didn't figure out something before like
two or three years from now there. I guess what gets difficult for them
is because of how punitive you are going to be if you're in the luxury
tax and this is not going to be cheap because you have to be like
on the money basically with dollar for dollar going out, and you have to
make sure that you're not in a position to wear any of your first round
picks are off the market, like the seven years out one And that's why
I think what's interesting, and this was kind of my question, is how
committed are they to this core if the opportunity arises to that, say this
season or even next season, by the twenty twenty five trade deadline, trade
a first round pick or technically two depending on how many open up, Like
what timeline we're talking about, versus waiting the two or three years so that
you can open up more to trade for maybe a higher end player. But
do you think that they're committed enough to this core to where if they I
don't want to use it as more of an odds and end, but if
it's if it's more of a finishing touch, then it is someone who sets
themselves up for the post Drew Middleton phase of the Jannis era. Are they
committed enough through this window to make that call, which they could have to,
like that's an opportunity that could rise tomorrow. Yeah, yeah, but
it's probably an issue closure to the trade deadline. But are they committed enough
to make that decision? Now? I would be a little surprised. I
think it would have to be someone they felt was just a perfect fit.
I think the last time they traded at first was PJ and clearly that worked
out, so I don't I wouldn't rule it out, but I think their
preferred line will be the Crowder thing again, where it's like we've cobbled together
five second round picks, we will spend those. We don't want to part
with the first round pick, and I think they don't have as many right
now, but it wouldn't surprise me. Like, you know, is there
someone on the roster who ends up getting flipped open up space later who you
know, maybe wants to play more. We've seen that happen every year or
two. It feels like we'll be on that. But I would guess they'll
try to save the first because I do think you trade your future first this
year, then it's like, okay, you have a kid, you probably
drafted it, like in the twenties, will say and one future first.
It just gets a lot harder to make that move, especially you know,
the second apron thing. They're pretty close to ducking it now. We actually
thought they'd be under, but the unlikely bonuses put them over. But if
you're an unlikely bonus range, you're not that far from it. So like
I think they could get under it next year. I've under it without the
unlikely bonuses or yeah, so I think they're like post anasis. I think
they're like just over because they did fill the fifteenth spot, which I think
I got about Tia, so I can't forget to speaking of you know,
no one having a Could Tia have a real role this year? I think
ye that year? Yeah, And I think the response is the same is
his pop. Look, there was another interest in Ta apparently, which is
really funny. If people still think like, oh, we're gonna put ourselves
in the Yanna sweep stays, but like we want Tia on the roster for
it. Do you think do you think that's what it was? It had
to be right. The fact that the Knicks were interested in him is a
one descent. Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, And I was like,
I'd look up, did he did he like attend one day of classes
at Villanova? No? I don't think so that's why else that's all they
all they go off of lately. But now I would be I think they'll
try to hold the first, but I mean they're there. I would say
they are a bird in the hand versus the bush. Organization knowing, Okay,
this is prime honest we're talking about. I mean, if there was
like a plus role player, especially one who fit age wise, I wouldn't
be stunned if they did it, for sure. I don't think they'd do
it for like Bojan Bogdanovitch, right, So would we be in agreement that
it seems like their biggest need is like another shot creator type, not even
just strictly a backup point guard, but like another shot creator type for this
roster. And would you expect them to, regardless of what ascids they're want
to put on the table, make some sort of a move, whether it's
the buyout market trying to cobble together enough ancillary assets to add that player.
I know a lot of that's depending on what what do they look like during
the regular season, but we've also seen how they've struggled in past years during
the playoffs, and you are sort of at a I would say, a
secondary deficit in that deport you're going outside the starting lineup. Would you expect
them to at least do something like that, even if it's not the bigger
swing. I know, Bucks fans, you told me we're obsessed with Jordan
Clarkson. Yeah, yeah, you know, it's funny. I think they
probably will. I don't think it's for sure, And I think one of
my takeaways from this last postseason run was like Ingles was actually a very good
offensive backup point guard for them, like move the ball really well. I
had a great pick and roll with pick and roll with Brook Lopez. But
you get to the playoffs and you have the Honest, and you have Drew
Holliday and you have Chris Middleton. He didn't touch the ball much like when
he played like he was kind of just a floor spacer, and it was
frustrating. But also I was kind of like, I mean, how much
can you really tell those three guys like you're just gonna be off ball when
you're on the court for X number of playoff minutes because we have Joe Ingles,
and I do wonder I think that's the hard part with adding another perimeter
player regular season. Yeah, sure, you can't get enough. I think
they'll miss it and maybe that's where we'll see someone like even Lindell get some
run. But it's hard to slot in a role player ball handler on a
team that really has three to some extent ball handlers. I mean, Drew
Holiday is their point guard for as much as you know, the decision making
and everything, like he's got to handle the ball. He's had Tennisis games
in the playoffs. Chris is their best pick and roll initiator. You know,
you try telling Jannis that the Koompo he's not going to handle the ball
at all either. There is only so much other and I think it's hard
for a guy to come in and just like be proved that he deserves to
be on the ball unless you're, like, you know, could you find
a He's obviously gone and too expensive, But you know, if Chris Paul
comes in, that's a different story. If you find like that would be
Bucks fans have been flirting with that one since pre Drew. I mean,
that was that was the only thing we thought we could do before No one
thought Drew Holiday was going to be on the way there and probably would have
worked out well for a couple of years there. But I would be down
for that as well if he wants to show up, But I think it
would have to be someone like that who's more of an established point guard versus
just like, you know, a good initiator. I just want I would
worry they would just lose their role in the playoffs again, which I think
makes some sense. But then it's like, well, what was the acquisition
for? Are we really doing this for the regular season? Is it worth
it? Or you know, do we just get the rookies in Lyndall Wingington
the ball more Marjohn you're a point guard today? Figure it out? We
don't. We don't care. You know, we're playing who can Who's really
not We're playing Washington, Like, we don't care at all. It's like,
go, we're gonna win anyway. Probably go see what you can do.
Maybe not an in season tournament game. That's a different story, but
yeah, I don't know. So that's what I grapple with, right,
is like, if you're not bringing in a let's say, like not even
starter, but like a top rotational guy like where Bobby Portis is at but
as a point guard, if it's not that level of player, I do
wonder like, is it is it worthwhile? Do you really need it for
the playoffs or not? What do you think about? I want your take
on this because it's a weird. It's a weird idea. I think you
stole my vibe a little bit and steal it. We're just on the same
wavelength here is if you're not. And that's what makes the conversation about would
they give up the first round pick? And what I was gonna get into,
I would say they're at a similar point. I mean, other teams
are here, but a good analog is the Knicks. Right now. The
Bucks are way better than the Knicks. Want to make that clear, but
everyone's talking about like, oh, the Knicks could do this, they could
do that. It's like any move you make at this point needs to be
someone that it can be added to your closing lineup or I think you would
the great way of family. I was gonna say, your sixth best player
is can it be on the level of Bobby Portis, where okay, he's
not in your most important closing units, but like you know, he's gonna
play enough minutes to matter. And the Bucks are in that same situation where
they might they have kind of a oh well, like we have that fifth
spot on the perimeter open in the closing lineup, Like okay, you need
to be better than whoever you have. It's not just a matter of well,
let's go get this player who maybe they're even better than Grayson al or
Pat Connaughton, but you can't play them defend Lee in crunch time or they're
two on the ball, like I would argue, like could you play Let's
say you were able to get Jordan Clarkson, could you play him and you're
closing you did? I guess in theory, sure, you probably a lot
of Middleton because Drew Holliday is already handling all he can and it's like that's
just gonna trickle down onto your three effect. And that's where their bucks are
at. Which makes it so difficult is that any move they don't have necessarily
the assets right now to do it, but they need to make if they're
going to make a move a meaningful move, it has to be more higher
end than mid end. And that's where I think people are compare in the
Knicks because when people were talking about their off season and some people were underwhelmed
by them getting Dante DiVincenzo, you needed to get someone your biggest need is
shooting that for the Knicks that cracks your closing lineup, and for the Bucks
it's that fifth guy who can mean our closing lineup. The bar for that
because you're already so good, it is incredibly high. And when you know
Brooke, Jannis, Drew and Middleton are just gonna play a crap ton of
minutes in the playoffs anyway, the Barber comes even higher for that. And
so I think, yeah, the issue given their you know, a team
like the Knicks, they have more assets to give up and go out and
get. And also their baseline of talent is lower as the collective. But
when you don't have these assets, you almost need to You mentioned this,
wait, and that's more of these first round picks open up that you can
trade. That makes it easier to get what you need. As ass backwards
as that might sound, or knowing the immediacy that you need to approach the
Janis window. But it's yeah, but it is a funny like paradox because
like it's a good problem to have. I would put it like they have
a depth chart hole, but they don't have a roster hole. If you
just stack up and look at like these are our nine most talented players,
I don't think anyone will look at that group a skill set aside and go,
oh, they need to add to that. Like I think the top
nine is really good. So it's it's difficult, Like I don't think you
should go get a let's say, de lan Right, a fine, a
fine backup point guard. Right. I don't think you should go get at
Delan Right and then go, well, you know, Pat, you're not
playing as much tonight because we went and got to lan Right. I'm not
I'm not specifically saying Delan Right is way worse than Pat Contadon or whatever,
but just to make the point of like you shouldn't push better players down in
the rotation just to fill that hole, which skill set wise may not matter
that much anyway, given what some other players on the roster can do.
And that's why it is like everyone wants to trade Grayson on Bucks Twitter.
Now. I think it's really hard to trade Grayson and get better, Like
I don't see the one to one trade for a team. It's just like,
yeah, we're gonna give you another player in their late twenties who's just
better for some reason, and you don't have to give us up much and
they make the same amount somehow, which Grayson makes like nine million dollars,
which is not a lot. You know, everyone wanted Colin Sexton. It's
like, okay, even putting aside the whole, the whole Colin Sexton as
a player thing, you gotta give up two rotational players and probably pick because
it's Danny Age. Is that its face even worth it? Like seriously,
that's that. I mean, you're not getting them for two players. The
Jazz are not doing that unless it's the honest and Chris or something. And
that's the thing too, is just like they're only built to like you're gonna
trade for salary matching purposes, Like you're gonna end up trading one of your
top seven or eight players. Hay, spoiler alert, it's not gonna be
one of your top three. Middleton, it's not gonna be one of your
top four. And so like it needs and if you're gonna give up two
of them, and so it's like I've got into this when I was like,
yo would make a lot of sense for this roster Tias Jones. Then
you get into the conversation of Thias Jones can't close for you, I don't.
I mean, like maybe he could like Tias and Drew and Middleton and
Jannis and Brooks, right, it'd be matchup dependent. And then okay,
fine, like that's fine. You can fall back on Connaton or Grayson in
that respect. It's like, well, no, you're gonna have to trade
maybe one or both those guys that get Tia Jones. Yeah, and that's
that's just the it's it's a good problem to have, but I think people
lose the plot of the bar for the Bucks to make a trade is just
so high for someone who's going to be again, they're sixth best player,
and it has to be not just it has to be our sixth best player,
not because we traded our sixth best player to get him, but because
they were going to be better than that sixth best player to begin with,
where it's like if you're going to trade Bobby Portis or Pat Hanaton whatever,
like okay, it's not just this person's kind of a better fit, Like
no, this person needs to be better than those guys too. Yeah,
I mean because you are. You are always needing to contend that year in
addition to the looking forward stuff, and it's like, you know, there
were some teams like it felt like Detroit got Monty Morris super easily, and
there were Bucks fans like, oh we could haven't. I mean, they
did what they did. I didn't like was like did they only get that
second Monte Morris? But please? But but like the Bucks again, like
maybe that's still a worthwhile deal to do. Like I'm not legislating that,
but the Pistons didn't have to think I don't even remember who they sent.
It was salary, Like they just they had salary that they could send the
Bucks to send salary. It was just they just took him. Yeah,
they just took him. So that that's even more. But like some of
these trades were John Collins that the Bucks reportedly sift around John Collins. Of
course they did. As you say, infinitely scalable player would have been a
great fit on the Bucks. But guess what the jazz I think? Did
send something for him? If I remember, maybe they had Yeah, the
Bucks don't have that equivalent of like, here's seven million dollars that we just
like, you know, no offense to regae. That just doesn't We're not
worried about losing that player, Like, they don't have the equivalent even if
you did. Let's let's think you had this this thing, you had a
throwaway player on a seven million dollars contract. We're not making seven million dollars
like Ruyay is making six million dollars, Like, so that's sort of their
issue. We talked about this already, but to get it in pencil,
their top ten rotation and nine of the spots are just it's so easy to
do with the team in flock, There's Drew Grayson, Chris Janis Brooke as
a starting five. Will say, right now, the body cortis Pat Connaton,
and I think both Jake Crowder and Molik Beasley you're gonna fator into the
rotation. I would argue, well, Weik Beasley might have the ability to
be more important than Jay Crowder, he also has is more likely to just
fall out of the rotation completely, Like there's less of an in between,
there's less of a medium with him. Yeah, who would we pencil in
for? Is it Marjohn? Right now? Is an AJ Green is like
who would you give that ten spot at the moment, I'm gonna say Marjohn?
For now, I do think like, and this is gonna sound crazy
to people like just I'm not making a comparison between these two players. If
Beasley did fall out, I do think that's where an Aj Green could really
rise. Because of course the shooting is the main skill set for both.
I think Mollique has a much more refined offensive game. Of course, he
for whatever it's worth, it seems like he's been in Milwaukee a ton,
like he's always posting workouts, either with his team or in the Buck's facility.
Clearly a player who is, like you know, Bruce Brown esque,
really really incentivized to play well this year and then hit free agency and get
a real contract. Bucks probably will have a hard time holding on to him.
If he does have a good year. Oh well, it's worth it
getting him for a year anyway. I would pencil in mar John first,
AJ Green right there. I think it's a little bit of a gap between
them and the two rookies and you know, Fanasis and Robin Lopez, depending
on if one of those rookies is like tearing it up in camp. Sure,
I mean there's you know, they could climb it, but I think
right now that's the you know, Mark John and I really Agent Green played
better, I would say last year, but I think Mark John will get
first crack. If I had to guess. The most Galaxy brain thing I
thought about the Bucks this year was when they brought back Rollo and I understand
they're not the same player. I was like, are they just going to
be more open to trade Bobby Porters at the trade Deado, like they had
just have another backup big there and give Janni's at the five as well.
In addition, I was just like, he is the player. I think
it makes the most sense if they did have to trade a court player who
makes a lot. I think he is the one that makes sense. But
also like everyone loves him. He's so locked in. I think quietly has
actually improved offensively quite a bit. He's not a great fund better. I
feel like over the past two or three years as a feels like, yeah,
he can't drop. That's I hope they never have n't dropped. He
just gets lost and it's it's hard to do. It's a lot of space.
But because you watch Brook Lopez do it and then you go it's more
trust me, trust me. It's every time they I'm like, oh no,
oh no, he's not going in the right direction at all. He's
also weird. And I don't mean to make another Knicks analogue, but like
how Julius Randall's more important than Nicks than any other team could value him.
Bobby Porters feels that way a little bit to Milwaukee, where it's like he
might be more important to them than any other team that could like feasibly like
want him. It's funny Marcus Johnson, who's tremendous as the Buck's color commentator
last year, it was kind of mixing him as like a core piece,
and you kind of look at it and it's like the things he can do,
his size, he's locked into contract, he's very young. He's like
twenty seven twenty eight for the Bucks. That's very young. It kind of
makes sense. But like his shooting in the playoffs hasn't been as good,
and that's been you know, he called out someone for saying he wasn't good
defensively after the Celtics playoff loss postseason, and he was right, like he
actually did. I think it was Chris Harring, which made it hilarious because
I was like, no, one like Chris Harring's great, like, come
on, Bobby, right, but he wasn't correcting like Bobby was. Did
not have a bad defensive postseason. He couldn't make shots and that's why he
lost the role. So it is like if he could just make shots consistently
threes offensively, like he could be someone who as as as I just said,
he's most likely role played to get traded, could also go into being
like an indispensable piece this year, like if they're playing and lean shot is
more consistent. I think there is more up in the air than usual for
the Bucks, which is still like very little for most other NBA teams.
Like we know the core four, like we know vaguely who will play.
You know, there's no no one is saying that you know, they don't
John Horace is a lie or whatever else. So thankfully what is this will
be matchup dependent to some extent, But what will be their most preferred closing
lineup? Is it just the starting five or do you think there's wiggle room
in that fifth spot? Again, we're talking about four locks are yeah,
Yeah, I think Condadon is more locked in or what will be. He's
gonna have to prove it again, but I think he's been the better playoff
player to Grayson. I think they trust him more latent games, or at
least they have. He is a bit older. Again, this could change,
but based on everything we've seen from the last x number of years,
I guess three, probably with great No. Two with Grayson. I would
say Pat and the big the core four, and then if they have to
go smaller, that's when, like, you know, maybe it is Grayson,
maybe it's Crowder for the defensive eyes. I really it's hard to say
right now, but I would say, you know, the small ball,
it would be then one of Grayson or Crowder for Brooke if he's not able
to stay on the floor. They're a weird on lineup, but you really
want to see them try this year. I really want them to get another
point guard and let Drew play off the ball. They don't just don't have
it right now really, but I was looking it up in like that series
everyone talks about against the Pelican when he was a Pelican against the Blazers,
where it's like, good to have a guy who did that Damian Lillard once
on the team. I guess just in case, ray Jon Rondo was the
point guard when he had that great offensive series and that great defensive series,
and I was like, oh, it's right, Rondo. I'd like tennis
is per game that it would be nice to have something. I really want
a John vault before he like, you know, we saw him play a
lot, but I would like to see Drew, mar John, Chris Pat
Jannis. I think it's going to be really fun and really leaning into like
the strengths of mar John, which is having a wide open floor and a
bunch of opportunity and a bunch of good as there's a bunch of shooting around
him. His shooting ultimately will determine if that's going to be a viable lineup.
But I really like that idea and I really hope we see some of
that this season. I would love to see a big man list lineup from
oh yeah, just to see like what ends up happening, and it's I
don't want to technally want to see any lineup that doesn't have Janas on the
floor. But if he just like, you're gonna give him and Brook this
bell together, give me Drew Chris Middleton. I think Pat Connaughton needs to
be a part of it. Let's throw Malik Beasley or a J. Greed
in there. Who's ever better shooting at that point than Jay Crowder And like
that's your day factor five And he's like, what does it look like?
It'd just be a curiosity, like maybe you soup up the offense and it
comes at the expense of the defense. But at the same time, you're
looking at three to four above average defender offenders in general in that lineup.
I don't think they would ever try to try they actually they did. Then
they did a little bit of Chriss at center last year and like very very
limited, and it's actually it kind of worked in the very small I was
like, oh, it's kind of interesting. I mean, I don't I
wouldn't say he was like playing center, but he was their biggest player on
the It's like, wow, it's you never never would have thought I'd see
the day and it kind of works. You might be honest something though.
They're over under said at fifty three point five, which is the same as
it was when we recorded last year. Are you taking the over the under
on that? And where do you think they stack up in the larger context
of the East I'm having in the over again, I mean, I think
it's I think it's more of a lock. Do you miss nineteen games?
Well, look at Chris. I mean, Chris was good for like a
dozen games. I mean, and I think they're they're at least functionally as
deep. Maybe deeper, maybe less deep, but it's it's close. I
mean they're not They're not really shallow coming in. Yeah, I think over
I have them first in the East, both in playoff equity and for regular
season wins, even experimenting with new stuff. I just think like we know
what they can do to a certain extent, and they're just they're really good.
And I think, you know, we talked a little bit about either
before early on the pod, like the rest of the East, I was
kind of like the Calves, who are like, you know, on the
way up, they look good. It's credit to the Calves pretty much everyone
else is like influx or like maybe staying the same. Like weird to say
that when you're looking at good Eastern Conference teams, the ones that we have
the most information about are the Knicks and the Calves at this point, because
of the moves that Boston made, Miami losing some guys, not knowing what's
going on with Dame, the old James Hard situation in Philly. I think
it kind of Michael Bridges would break out eclipse this like the Nets weren't good,
like Michael Bridges was their best player. Toronto is just going through an
existential crisis or whatever it is. So and then like the Bulls or the
Bulls or the Bulls, well the Magic or the Pacers make a leap,
maybe the building Washington's gonna be annoyed if they win more than twelve games.
Probably it's just like it's weird to say the Bucks we know the most about.
So yeah, top of the East for sure. This might be we
haven't done our over underpod like Grant and not yet for the like two conferences.
If they if this holds, we're gonna have they're gonna want to be
one of my best. They just won fifty eight, and I would argue
the East is even less like open now, like the Topics just closed off.
If there's more separation between the Bucks and literally everyone else like there are,
I think there are two teams that could realistically sniff them, maybe Miami
if they get name, but it's it's Cleveland and it's whatever the theory is
in Boston, right, No, I agree, I think Philly, you
know, maybe they'll get through it again. I feel like they just asked
and bid to shoulders so much this and the Simon season. I don't know
if there's going to be as much enthusiasm, and I think, you know,
the Buck's weirdly like kind of played horrible in some big games, just
got absolutely shit kicked last season, And I kind of wonder, like,
will the rejuvenation of doing stuff new maybe even put a little pep in their
step. We'll see, We'll see. Usually Vegas is on. But yeah,
I agree, I think this is like, well, they out of
the water last year. They were four and a half wins over, which
is pretty like big discrepancy for Vegas. Anything else or anyone else that we
have not touched upon. I didn't ask you about over the last eighty minutes
that you think needs to be discussed. We've done such a good thorough job.
I would say we just didn't for you know, he wasn't didn't signed,
and isn't the guy we didn't talk a bunch of Drew. And I
do think, like you know, if he can just be put in better
positions offensively, maybe a little more structure, how much can that change for
them in itself? That's that's a big question. That's like a you know,
there are Bucks people who are really like out on Drew after just had
a really bad playoffs against Miami, you know, can we just get him
a little more, a little more direction, a little more infrastructure around him
and his decision making so he's not you know, I think the bud let
it fly thing probably went too far. And it's like, yeah, Jack
up at three at eighteen seconds, who cares? He hits those back threes
and the regular season apparently that qualifier matters a lot, though, Dan,
that's a really important qualifier. It has not held up at all in the
playoffs, so that's going to be the thing. It's just like, you
know, if he's really set in like a better space offensively, you know,
do they just actually kind of like blow through the East? Maybe they
do. I don't know. I never like to be too optimistic, but
I do think Drew is a big swing and if he just plays better in
this playoffs, which Bucks vans have been saying for three years now, you
know, they could be a much more a threatening team going forward. Ty,
this was great as always. Thank you for giving me so much of
your time. Were you able to tell our listeners where they can find you
and all the great work that you do. I am so we cover GESPN,
We cover the Bucks, of course, with two podcasts We also cover
the brewers and Packers if you're into those Wisconsin sports. We also cover film.
I don't I don't watch enough movies, but we have guys to do
that. GESPN dot info you can find all of our links, so please
check us out, and of course subscribe to this podcast everywhere on the internet
if you're not already, because it is truly fantastic. Thank you so much
for the cord words and again for all your time. As always, I,
as you know by now, I'll be fast for you again at some
point. It