1 00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:08,279 Hi, This is mari Ansorge from blake Forest, Illinois and I play at 2 00:00:08,279 --> 00:00:13,919 Conway Farms golf Course. This is Golf's order number nine fifty seven. I 3 00:00:14,039 --> 00:00:18,640 firmly believe in bifurcation. I think they are playing a different game than we 4 00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:22,440 play. That's very obvious on any given day, in any given moment, 5 00:00:22,519 --> 00:00:26,679 any given t shot, any given pot, any given ship. Those guys 6 00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:32,479 are elite and play the game in such a different way swing speed, length 7 00:00:32,679 --> 00:00:36,320 ability, it's not even close, right, And even people who think they're 8 00:00:36,359 --> 00:00:41,759 close are not close. So I do not believe that, in the midst 9 00:00:41,759 --> 00:00:47,840 of golf's greatest growth phase for men, women, and children and every other 10 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:54,479 person on the planet, to throw in the concept of a rollback for amateurs, 11 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:58,039 for people who pay to play the game, do whatever you want to 12 00:00:58,119 --> 00:01:00,000 the people who get paid to play the game, But for the people who 13 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:06,359 are actually coming to the game to pay money to rock up and utilize a 14 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:11,280 facility for eighteen holes, the idea of throwing in the concept of a roll 15 00:01:11,439 --> 00:01:15,000 back to pieces of the equipment, especially the golf ball, to me, 16 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:27,159 just doesn't make sense. The power and future of storytelling in golf media with 17 00:01:27,319 --> 00:01:34,040 writer and producer Matt Genella. This is Golf Smarter, sharing stories, tips 18 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:38,799 and insights from great golf minds to help you lower your score and raise your 19 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:44,840 golf IQ. Here's your host, Fred Green. Welcome back to the Golf 20 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:49,040 Smarter podcast. Matt, thanks for having me, Fred, always a pleasure. 21 00:01:49,879 --> 00:01:53,359 Thank you for agreeing to do this. Ever since our last conversation, 22 00:01:53,439 --> 00:01:56,920 I'm like, how do I get mad on again? And I've got some 23 00:01:57,040 --> 00:02:01,519 ideas and we'll talk about that in the future tonight. For today, let's 24 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:07,439 uh, let's talk about what's going on in the golf world. I I 25 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:10,439 just did a road trip up to Eugene, Oregon to go visit samh On 26 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:17,360 at Lab Golf, and uh, it was way beyond my expectations. Sam 27 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:24,400 and I have a very kindred spirit. There's something about Sam and I together 28 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:30,479 that is really awesome. I really like this guy, this kid, and 29 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:37,840 got the full tour. Got a tutorial from from Sam on how to use 30 00:02:37,879 --> 00:02:44,000 my new DF three broomstick. I'm very excited about it. And those are 31 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:46,919 gonna be videos that we're gonna do. Those they'll be ready for next week's 32 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:52,280 episode and there'll be videos separate videos. One on the tutorial and one on 33 00:02:52,319 --> 00:02:57,199 the whole tour as well, So we got of the factory I got. 34 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:00,800 I mean, you know what I think of Sam. I I think he's 35 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:07,719 a fantastic character, and I've enjoyed getting to know him and obviously enjoyed getting 36 00:03:07,759 --> 00:03:12,719 to know his story as it relates to lab golf and Bill Pressey and all 37 00:03:12,759 --> 00:03:17,560 the different tentacles that I sort of explored in reporting out that podcast series, 38 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:23,639 and then got a chance to actually go by and meet him in his work 39 00:03:23,719 --> 00:03:29,680 environment at that golf course in Eugene that they call home, and they were 40 00:03:29,759 --> 00:03:34,639 cranking. I mean they were breaking record their new daily records, monthly record, 41 00:03:34,639 --> 00:03:38,840 weekly records. This goes back in May. They were just shattering. 42 00:03:38,759 --> 00:03:46,159 Every day was a new day of you know, unmeasured success. So happy 43 00:03:46,599 --> 00:03:52,280 for them that everybody I met just couldn't be more passionate about what they do 44 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:54,960 and how they do it, and they were they were just you know, 45 00:03:55,280 --> 00:04:00,520 seem to be enjoying the fruits of their labor. Well, we did a 46 00:04:00,599 --> 00:04:04,360 road trip. I went with a buddy of mine who is he works for 47 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:10,599 a consulting firm, a large consulting firm, and he was blown away by 48 00:04:10,639 --> 00:04:16,639 the culture up there about how everybody is so tight and so wonderful and loves 49 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:20,920 what they do so much and are so behind the mission that Sam is leading. 50 00:04:21,399 --> 00:04:28,079 He is, He is really quite the character. I think he's well, 51 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:30,399 I can go on and on about him. And we got to play 52 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:36,360 eighteen holes with him as well, along with Liam Bedford and those two can 53 00:04:36,399 --> 00:04:41,519 play golf. No, it's Sam. I played with Sam here in San 54 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:45,720 Diego. Liam was in the group I think ahead of us, and I 55 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:49,079 was, Yeah, Sam is real deal. I mean, I you know, 56 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:53,519 I think he's a scratch. I think and play and kind of plays 57 00:04:53,519 --> 00:04:58,240 to it is what I call. And I know Liam is legiti former baseball 58 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:04,839 player right Philly's organization, but an Australian legit athlete. And do you realize 59 00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:08,839 that he's thirty one and he didn't start playing golf until he was twenty five. 60 00:05:09,439 --> 00:05:13,360 Yeah, he was part of the podcast and he was scratch in six 61 00:05:13,439 --> 00:05:16,959 months. Yeah, No, he's athletes are athletes, you know something you 62 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:24,160 just can't coach or teach, and and he's definitely falls into that category of 63 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:27,680 just pure athlete. Yep. You know, hand eye coordination, you know 64 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:30,560 all that stuff. Well, on the drive up north. It's about, 65 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:35,800 you know, five hundred miles from where I live. We listened to the 66 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:41,319 entire series again the second time. For me, I was like, Okay, 67 00:05:41,319 --> 00:05:44,800 now now it's research. Now I've got to study this thing. And 68 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:46,759 there was one thing that Sam said in there that I had to get right. 69 00:05:46,879 --> 00:05:50,360 And I didn't remember which episode it was, and it was early on 70 00:05:50,439 --> 00:05:54,399 in episode one. But when he said, yeah, people think of me 71 00:05:54,439 --> 00:05:57,600 a weird hippie stoner, I'm like, That's what it was about him that 72 00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:00,959 I felt like, It's like, oh, we're the same guy. We 73 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:03,399 came from the music business and we're you know, out of San Francisco and 74 00:06:03,439 --> 00:06:10,600 blah blah blah, and yeah, it was right as soon as we saw 75 00:06:10,639 --> 00:06:13,480 each other, it was like, oh yeah, yeah, No. He 76 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:16,560 loved listening to it again. It was worth a second listen. Congratulations, 77 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:23,240 it's such a phenomenal series. I thank you. I again. I didn't 78 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:29,600 know what I was getting myself into. It's actually been you know, I 79 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:33,199 don't even know really where to go from here in terms of where, you 80 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:36,639 know, I'm sitting on several stories that I've reported. It's going to take 81 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:40,800 some time to put them all together. I'm in transition mode myself in terms 82 00:06:40,839 --> 00:06:45,439 of what I'm doing and how I'm doing it, and so I'm kind of, 83 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:48,319 you know, I'm dug in on a couple of clients and people that 84 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:51,600 I'm working with in order to make sure that I'm serving them, and then 85 00:06:51,639 --> 00:06:56,439 also kind of trying to figure out where we go next. We're also moving 86 00:06:56,720 --> 00:07:00,680 literally physically moving. I've got some family stuff I'm dealing with, so a 87 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:05,240 lot of things going on. I think as far as the Lab series goes, 88 00:07:05,439 --> 00:07:14,439 I continue to get comments DMS messages. I had a lab. I 89 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:15,759 didn't know how to use it. I listen. Now I know how to 90 00:07:15,839 --> 00:07:20,480 use it. I understand the technology better. I bought a lab. You 91 00:07:20,519 --> 00:07:28,120 know. I get a lot of really very thoughtful, positive, encouraging feedback 92 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:31,160 from people who not only like their putter. I think they liked the story 93 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:35,240 behind the putter and how it became what it is and the brand it is 94 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:41,319 so and the way you just really get as you know, as a storyteller, 95 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:46,800 when you tell a story, when you share someone or another brand story 96 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:50,240 and it moves people, that obviously moves you. I mean that feels good. 97 00:07:50,879 --> 00:07:55,879 That's you know, I don't know where we are in the media industry 98 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:59,920 now, in golf media and as it relates to storytelling, whether people actually 99 00:08:00,279 --> 00:08:03,000 still care, I don't know if they do or not. But that's why 100 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:09,399 it's nice to hear certain people actually saying, oh, I really enjoyed that. 101 00:08:09,759 --> 00:08:11,279 I you know, I listened, or I listened twice. I didn't 102 00:08:11,319 --> 00:08:15,360 expect to listen, and I started listening. I couldn't stop. That to 103 00:08:15,439 --> 00:08:20,600 me, is is that's good? That's good stuff? Yeah? So do 104 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:24,839 you think I mean the way we see it right now? But is lab 105 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:28,560 Golf the hottest putter company in the world right now? I mean they seem 106 00:08:28,639 --> 00:08:35,519 to be showing up in a lot of places. Yeah. I don't know 107 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:39,639 anything about anything. I don't look at business analytics and I don't know, 108 00:08:41,159 --> 00:08:46,200 you know, but I will say that there's there can't be any other putter 109 00:08:46,279 --> 00:08:50,440 company that's had this kind of growth like this, you know, No, 110 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:54,240 no putter companies growing exponentially like lab Is right now. I mean, Scottie 111 00:08:54,240 --> 00:09:00,519 Cameron Is is an iconic putting company and brand. And I don't know the 112 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:05,200 numbers that they do and you know, but I but I know that lab 113 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:09,440 Is has its own individual thing and Company. I mean, how can you 114 00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:13,200 be hotter than lab? I mean, it just seems to be firing on 115 00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:16,759 all cylinders. And you know, it doesn't mean I didn't miss a four 116 00:09:16,759 --> 00:09:20,240 and a half footer in this week's Herdsman at goat Hill Park, you know, 117 00:09:20,399 --> 00:09:26,080 in the hall of the horse race that costs my partner and I. 118 00:09:26,159 --> 00:09:28,559 But it made a bunch of putts to get us there, you know what 119 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:30,879 I mean. You still got you still got to have to hit, but 120 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:33,360 you got to hit your right line. You got to have the right speed. 121 00:09:33,039 --> 00:09:37,200 So it doesn't do everything for you, and but it it has made 122 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:41,200 putting fun for me again. I use a DF three. If I had 123 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:46,320 to do all over again, I would probably go with the broomstick. Knowing 124 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:52,120 what I know now and having heard everything I've heard and then experimented with both, 125 00:09:52,399 --> 00:09:56,559 I've just can't a can't go away from what I'm using, which is 126 00:09:56,759 --> 00:10:01,759 the shorter DF three, And because that's been really good to me, But 127 00:10:01,919 --> 00:10:07,480 be it's just hard to stick a broomstick in your bag and travel with it 128 00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:11,960 and put it in your trunk like it's just a really long thing. Isn't 129 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:16,720 it the same length as your driver? I don't know. I think it 130 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:18,759 is. I mean, unless you have something longer than forty four inches. 131 00:10:20,039 --> 00:10:24,679 I've never actually put it in my bag. It's whatever it is, it's 132 00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:28,240 it's just a big giant thing. And I'm just not sure that I'm ready 133 00:10:28,279 --> 00:10:31,720 to actually put with a broomstick. Yeah. Again, I see the technology. 134 00:10:31,759 --> 00:10:37,200 I think the technology is best served as you know, as pendulum as 135 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:41,799 you can be, and I think broomstick is as pendulum as you can be. 136 00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:46,600 But I just can't. I just can't get myself to do that yet. 137 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:50,159 Well, you know, that's really contrary to what you were saying on 138 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:56,120 your series, because if it works, I mean, let it speak for 139 00:10:56,159 --> 00:10:58,840 itself. What Kelly Slater said, I didn't say that, but you know, 140 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:03,919 and what Adam Scott said, and what Lucas Glover said. I mean, 141 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:07,399 they're, you know, and they're they're just better at this than me. 142 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:09,679 But I just there might be a day where I'd go to it. 143 00:11:09,759 --> 00:11:13,879 But right now, again, I'm putting so well with the shorter DF three 144 00:11:15,879 --> 00:11:18,759 And like I said, if I were to start all over again and do 145 00:11:18,919 --> 00:11:24,200 the first version of lab as my you know, it would be a broomstick. 146 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:26,840 But once now that I got this in my hand, and I'm putting 147 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:30,759 so well with it. I just I don't change stuff, like if it's 148 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:33,399 working for me, I stay with it. And that's why it took me 149 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:35,519 so long to even go to LAB. They you know, they had sent 150 00:11:35,559 --> 00:11:37,960 me my putter. I didn't start using it for a couple of months because 151 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:43,159 I'd been putting so good with my previous putter, so I don't, Yeah, 152 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:46,559 I stay with I dance with the one that brung me, you know 153 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:50,519 what I mean. And but now it's the DF three short one and I'm 154 00:11:50,519 --> 00:11:54,399 loving it. And people, I mean people are noticing at my club. 155 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:56,720 They're like, Okay, that's it. I'm getting a LAB. I see 156 00:11:56,919 --> 00:12:07,519 how it's changed the way you put It's interesting because on the video, when 157 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:09,840 Sam is giving me a tutorial on how to use the broomstick, I mentioned 158 00:12:09,879 --> 00:12:13,519 to him, and I really believe it's true. For me. I was 159 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:18,480 using the DF three and it is a huge leap from the two point one, 160 00:12:18,559 --> 00:12:22,639 the DF two point one, the direct force directed force, direct force. 161 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:28,519 But what I noticed about my putting with a regular size putter is that 162 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:31,639 my left hand is what gets me in trouble. I'm right handed, but 163 00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:35,679 it's my left hand. If I push it or I pull it, it's 164 00:12:35,759 --> 00:12:39,799 because of what's going on with my left hand. And so by using a 165 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:46,320 broomstick, getting my left hand out of the equation and just using that classic 166 00:12:46,399 --> 00:12:52,240 perfect pendulum with the right arm, I'm like my line, it's all about 167 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:54,559 speed. At that point, the line is exactly where I wanted to go. 168 00:12:56,000 --> 00:13:03,279 Well, I think again the whole gist of in the essence of why 169 00:13:03,559 --> 00:13:09,519 it's working and catching on as you're eliminating that whole concept of you know, 170 00:13:09,639 --> 00:13:15,440 managing torque. Right, what is either the toe balance or the face balance 171 00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:20,080 the toe hang of the face bounce putter. So if you're just taking that 172 00:13:20,279 --> 00:13:24,120 out of the equation, now you're just focused knowing that, knowing that that 173 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:28,480 face is going to be square coming square to that ball, and it's going 174 00:13:28,519 --> 00:13:33,559 to be starting online or something very close to it. Now you're just worried 175 00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:45,960 about speed and line. That eliminating that factor certainly makes sense to me. 176 00:13:46,039 --> 00:13:48,600 And if you see it, if you see what happens on the revealer, 177 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:52,759 of what happens when putters are whipping around and going in and that one is 178 00:13:52,799 --> 00:13:58,399 just staying steady, and then you go into down the Brett Rumford hole of 179 00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:05,320 let go of control to gain control and kind of that epiphany moment that he 180 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:09,279 had, or that a lot of people have, and which as light as 181 00:14:09,559 --> 00:14:11,519 I try, I try to hold that putter literally as light as possible. 182 00:14:11,639 --> 00:14:16,440 I try to like swing it as smooth and as steady as possible and let 183 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:22,000 the technology actually do what it's supposed to do, what it was designed to 184 00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:26,519 do, what I think a lot of marketing had told you other putters in 185 00:14:26,679 --> 00:14:31,480 theory were going to do. But Bill Pressey actually figured out how to do 186 00:14:31,559 --> 00:14:35,159 it. So you just get you get out of the way. And you 187 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:41,000 know, I got hot with it early. Then I went through a cold 188 00:14:41,039 --> 00:14:43,799 phase. Then I realized I needed to move closer to the putter. People 189 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:48,759 were noticing that I was too far. My eyes were back away from the 190 00:14:48,759 --> 00:14:52,960 ball. So I got a little more close again, getting more into that 191 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:58,440 upright position, more into like almost a pendulum position. And then slin, 192 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:01,720 you know, just letting that sway, And now I'm hot again. And 193 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:05,039 now I agree in my mind, I feel like I can make every part. 194 00:15:05,039 --> 00:15:11,320 I look at the green is you know, a meeting place of hope. 195 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:18,679 That's what And that's what I think putters and putter companies sell, right. 196 00:15:18,759 --> 00:15:22,480 I mean, they're selling you on the hope that you can, you 197 00:15:22,519 --> 00:15:26,919 know, get good at putting and make the ones that matter right. And 198 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:31,519 I think Lab's done a very effective job of doing all of that well. 199 00:15:31,559 --> 00:15:35,639 In your nine part series. You you know, you learn so much and 200 00:15:35,679 --> 00:15:39,240 you get to the point of, like you just mentioned, you got to 201 00:15:39,559 --> 00:15:41,960 let go of control to gain control. But if you just say that to 202 00:15:43,039 --> 00:15:48,039 someone, it's not as effective as when you hear the whole story and get 203 00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:54,279 to that point. But it really is true about let go of control of 204 00:15:54,279 --> 00:15:56,799 your putter, untrque yourself, is what they say it Lab, right, 205 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:03,159 But let go of it to gain control too, to then become a better 206 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:07,360 putter. Get out of the way, you know, get out of the 207 00:16:07,399 --> 00:16:11,399 way and just let the let the let the putter do the work. So 208 00:16:11,559 --> 00:16:15,519 you know, I mean, and and not and as it's mentioned in this 209 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:18,519 series, not bad life advice either, right, let go of control control 210 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:22,759 and you know, so there's a lot, there's some you know, golf 211 00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:26,720 is life and life is golf, and all the parallels keep going on and 212 00:16:26,759 --> 00:16:30,440 on and on, and here's yet more to chew on it and I think 213 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:34,799 it was my first episode with that we did in two thousand and five with 214 00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:38,399 doctor Joe Parent who says, I help people get out of their own way, 215 00:16:38,919 --> 00:16:42,639 and I think this putter does that a lot as well. If you 216 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:47,879 let it, if you let it, you let it. Yeah. Absolutely, 217 00:16:48,879 --> 00:16:52,279 Okay, enough about lab for now. We may n't back there. 218 00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:56,879 But there's other things like when you just mentioned about storytelling in in golf and 219 00:16:56,960 --> 00:17:03,680 media, it made me think of Bryce to Shambo and how effective he's become 220 00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:10,319 through his YouTube channel and how he talked about you know, his YouTube channel 221 00:17:11,279 --> 00:17:17,519 helped him to realize that it's all entertainment and it's all storytelling, and that 222 00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:26,279 he's an entertainer and he I was kind of blown away after he won the 223 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:33,039 major at the PGA Championship and it just seemed like he was a different kid. 224 00:17:37,079 --> 00:17:41,079 I want to make sure that I'm understanding the question in there just before 225 00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:47,960 I started answering, which is you know, in other words, is Bryceon 226 00:17:48,079 --> 00:17:51,279 evolving in a way that makes him more likable? Is that kind of what 227 00:17:51,319 --> 00:17:56,000 I'm hearing for me? Yes? Yeah, for me as well. I 228 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:06,400 the let's see, I think there's a few things here. I think he 229 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:10,680 has evolved as a human being, Okay, which is you know, you'd 230 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:14,839 like to think we all do we all are? I know some of us 231 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:18,039 don't, or some of us. He's still a young person, he's still 232 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:23,400 twenties earlier. Again, and I think the way and I again, I 233 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:27,519 don't know anything about anything. He's quirky, okay, so whatever that is. 234 00:18:27,559 --> 00:18:30,400 You know, Tom Doak is quirky. By Bryson d. Chambeau is 235 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:36,480 quirky. There's a lot of very very successful people in this industry who are 236 00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:42,680 you know, what would be deemed quirky or odd or socially wonky or you 237 00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:47,480 know, a lot of a lot of But it doesn't make them bad people. 238 00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:49,960 It doesn't mean they're you know, it just means that they're kind of 239 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:55,680 they're they're unique, they're different. They look at life, you know, 240 00:18:55,880 --> 00:19:00,960 through a different set of glasses. I don't know. Bryson is definitely different, 241 00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:06,400 and we've seen a lot of different sides of him over the years. 242 00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:10,279 Some of the sides made it really hard to like him. I mean, 243 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:15,960 the tantrums and some of the meltdowns and some of the things that he says. 244 00:19:15,599 --> 00:19:21,440 But you know, I give. I give people passes on that knowing 245 00:19:21,519 --> 00:19:23,960 that they're young, or they're immature, or they've been coddled, or they're 246 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:27,839 surrounded by yes men, or they they they came up with a different guys. 247 00:19:27,839 --> 00:19:30,400 I don't know, there's a there's a lot of things that go into 248 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:37,839 whoever we are as individuals. I do think that as he's gotten older and 249 00:19:38,319 --> 00:19:42,799 found his you know, get he's he seems to be a little more comfortable 250 00:19:42,799 --> 00:19:49,680 in his own skin. He seems to be a little less agitated in his 251 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:53,240 you know, personal and professional life. I think, you know, I 252 00:19:53,279 --> 00:20:00,160 think Live was kind of the was a was It's it's been good for for 253 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:03,799 some people, have not been good for some people. Who's benefited more from 254 00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:10,200 Live than Bryson Dschambau right, like out from underneath this kind of structured PGA 255 00:20:10,319 --> 00:20:15,079 tour that's very controlling and very like trying to manifest a lot of different little 256 00:20:15,079 --> 00:20:19,839 brand narratives the way they see it or want to see it, and controlling 257 00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:25,880 and it's like this lily white PGA tour that we're going to, you know, 258 00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:30,240 project and you know, manage in a way. Well, Bryson got 259 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:33,720 out, you know that wasn't that that wasn't good for him for a guy 260 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:37,559 who's so unique and kind of wanting to do his own thing and bring it. 261 00:20:37,599 --> 00:20:44,960 So I think Live gave him that kind of freedom, content freedom, 262 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:49,759 you know, uh, platform freedom. Uh you know the way he plays 263 00:20:49,759 --> 00:20:52,839 that, you know, no one's no one's gonna outwork Bryson Dschambau. So 264 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:56,400 it didn't didn't matter that he was going to be playing three rounds or playing 265 00:20:56,480 --> 00:21:02,160 less golf or shotgun didn't. You know, Like he he's a hard worker, 266 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:06,839 he's a golf fanatic, he's a junkie. He's going to work as 267 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:11,000 hard as he needs to to try to keep improving. Mad scientist, he's 268 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:12,319 a mad scientist. Part of the quirk I was referring to it. He's 269 00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:17,480 just really that's his thing. So I think he's just a guy who, 270 00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:23,359 you know, whereas Dustin Johnson probably needed this structure and needed the guard rails 271 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:27,480 and needed the control, you know, like am you saying of the PGA 272 00:21:27,599 --> 00:21:32,400 tour, of the guys who left the tour to go to Live. I 273 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:37,960 think some of these guys aren't aren't succeeding. You know, john Rom probably 274 00:21:38,039 --> 00:21:45,960 needed the structure, the legacy, the you know, the four rounds and 275 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:48,759 the play, you know, like, I don't think he's gotten better since 276 00:21:48,799 --> 00:21:52,200 he left. I don't think DJ has gotten better since he left. I 277 00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:56,559 think Brooks is still a mixed bag. And we'll see what happened. I 278 00:21:56,559 --> 00:21:59,039 know he kind of partly left because he had a bunch of injuries. And 279 00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:00,200 you know, whether he's hell Fear or not, I don't really know. 280 00:22:00,839 --> 00:22:04,839 But but Bryson is one of those guys who left and is actually you know, 281 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:11,599 has been very successful in his departure from the the institution of the PGA 282 00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:15,599 Tour. Right or wrong, good or bad? Like it or don't like 283 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:18,480 it. That's that Those are all different conversations. I'm just saying he's one 284 00:22:18,519 --> 00:22:25,039 of the few who's really thrived in this kind of fences, you know, 285 00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:30,359 gates open kind of mentality of live golf, and more power to him. 286 00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:36,240 And you know, he's one another the US Open and h and he did 287 00:22:36,279 --> 00:22:41,279 it in a really really stylish, you know, convincing way, and uh 288 00:22:41,799 --> 00:22:45,519 and he's played well in in you know, most of the majors, and 289 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:52,319 you know he's succeeding and he's now found this other platform and and outlet for 290 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:57,000 all of again, more quirkiness, you know, politics aside, and whether 291 00:22:57,039 --> 00:23:03,200 we agree or don't agree like with all that that again, more different conversations. 292 00:23:03,279 --> 00:23:06,839 I just think it's nice to see I think he's good for golf generally. 293 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:11,200 I think it's nice to see him be happy and be successful. I 294 00:23:11,279 --> 00:23:22,599 don't begrudge people, you know, success and happiness. So good for him. 295 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:26,160 So I'm gonna throw this one out to you. I hope that you 296 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:30,200 can step I have no doubt you'll step up to this challenge. I just 297 00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:36,400 got word that you were made the commissioner of the USGA and you're in charge 298 00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:42,839 of the PGA Tour. What's your first move? Well, in terms of 299 00:23:44,279 --> 00:23:47,440 oh man, that's a lot. So I'm in charge of the USGA and 300 00:23:47,519 --> 00:23:52,519 the PGA Tour. Oh no, let's talk about everyday golfer. Let's talk 301 00:23:52,559 --> 00:23:56,279 about with the restrictions that everyday golfers have to do. Whether you believe in 302 00:23:56,279 --> 00:24:00,680 bifurcation or not, you know that there's a set of rules. It should 303 00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:03,160 be for the tour and a set of rules for everybody else who plays. 304 00:24:03,559 --> 00:24:08,359 Let's just say in the USGA, you are now in charge and you get 305 00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:14,119 to say, you know this rule, we really need that, Larry David 306 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:18,880 here, but you know, where would you go with that? I would, 307 00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:23,359 you know, I think they're generally kind of going there. Certainly were 308 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:32,839 going in the right direction. I definitely like Mike Waan. I I think 309 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:38,960 he I think he's a good leader, and I think he did really incredible 310 00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:47,240 things for the LPGA. Whether that is going to ultimately translate into being good 311 00:24:47,279 --> 00:24:51,920 for the USGA, I think to be determined. I think he's he's he's 312 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:59,440 really into this marketing and these taglines and these catchphrases of you know, unify 313 00:24:59,599 --> 00:25:06,400 and go whatever, you know, all these different things. I firmly believe 314 00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:10,519 in bifurcation. I think they are playing a different game than we play. 315 00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:14,200 That's very obvious. On any given day, in any given moment, any 316 00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:18,440 given t shot, any given putt, any given ship. Those guys are 317 00:25:18,559 --> 00:25:23,680 elite and play the game in such a different way swing speed, length, 318 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:29,119 ability, it's not even close, right, And even people who think they're 319 00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:37,319 close are not close. So I do not believe that it's necessary to in 320 00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:45,079 the midst of golf's greatest growth phase for men, women, and children and 321 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:51,519 every other person on the planet, to throw in the concept of a rollback 322 00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:56,119 for amateurs, for people who pay to play the game, do whatever you 323 00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:59,839 want to the people who get paid to play the game, but for the 324 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:06,359 people who are actually coming to the game to pay money to rock up and 325 00:26:07,839 --> 00:26:11,759 you know, utilize a facility for eighteen holes. The idea of throwing in 326 00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:18,240 the concept of a roll back to pieces of the equipment, especially the golf 327 00:26:18,279 --> 00:26:25,039 ball individually, and singling out the golf ball is to me just as doesn't 328 00:26:25,039 --> 00:26:30,599 make sense. It's unnecessary. Bucket of water on what is this beautiful, 329 00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:36,880 warm, you know, life giving flame. That is the growth that's happening 330 00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:42,839 in the game. So that seemed odd and unnecessary to me. I do 331 00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:48,039 think that the longest hitters in the game. If you want to do a 332 00:26:48,079 --> 00:26:51,240 tournament ball, or if you want to shrink the driver size, or if 333 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:57,480 you want to lengthen fairways, if you want to, you know, limit 334 00:26:57,599 --> 00:27:03,759 the loft on what would be a driver. You know, you can do 335 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:08,920 any number of things. I really honestly could care less. When I go 336 00:27:10,039 --> 00:27:14,400 play softball, I use a metal bat. When they go play professional baseball, 337 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:18,039 they use a would bat. I know it's not exactly the same But 338 00:27:18,799 --> 00:27:22,359 my point is is that I know that I'm not playing the same game that 339 00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:25,319 they play, and they know they're not playing the same game that I play. 340 00:27:26,559 --> 00:27:29,480 I know that they're getting paid to play. We're going out and trying 341 00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:33,599 to utilize our You know, most people only play six to ten rounds a 342 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:37,359 year. FRED like, six to ten rounds a year. Do you know 343 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:41,240 what I'm saying. Like, if you think about a golf season in the 344 00:27:41,279 --> 00:27:47,000 Midwest of being five months and you play twice a month, you're playing ten 345 00:27:47,079 --> 00:27:52,279 times. That's why we don't really need to get like, it doesn't matter 346 00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:56,720 how far they hit. Like, if that person that plays ten times a 347 00:27:56,759 --> 00:28:00,359 month is hitting it over a bunker, I normally shouldn't be hitting it over, 348 00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:03,799 cutting it at a corner or whatever it's going to. It's just it 349 00:28:03,799 --> 00:28:08,400 doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to me. So I say, 350 00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:11,960 let a real good thing alone. And if I was in charge of the 351 00:28:12,079 --> 00:28:17,920 USGA, I would be working with the other governing bodies of golf to create 352 00:28:18,039 --> 00:28:25,079 a set of standards or equipment or rules that that made sense to the elites 353 00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:29,839 so that we can, you know, so that we can still utilize some 354 00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:33,920 of the best venues in golf, for you know, some of the best 355 00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:37,599 tournaments in golf. And if guys are hitting at three forty to three sixty 356 00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:41,279 to three seventy, or if they're getting it, they're carrying at three thirty 357 00:28:41,279 --> 00:28:45,480 and it's rolling another fifty yards, I get. The optics are that you 358 00:28:45,519 --> 00:28:51,640 know that some of these cherished venues are becoming irrelevant or obsolete. And if 359 00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:53,160 you do want to do that, if you want to, if you want 360 00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:59,680 to keep those in and keep them relevant, then roll some stuff back. 361 00:28:59,839 --> 00:29:04,319 But don't don't mess with us. Don't mess with the paying consumer, because 362 00:29:04,359 --> 00:29:11,640 it doesn't It doesn't make any sense to me, because the reality is we 363 00:29:11,799 --> 00:29:15,640 the people who pay to play, actually don't hit it too far. And 364 00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:19,759 if you know what, if I got a group of twenty eight guys who 365 00:29:19,759 --> 00:29:23,160 go to banded dunes every year and we play sixty two hundred yards and we 366 00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:29,000 get a little wind and a little conditions, trust me, there's very few 367 00:29:29,039 --> 00:29:33,640 of us that are playing to our handicaper better. It just from sixty two 368 00:29:33,759 --> 00:29:36,880 hundred yards. So the point is it's just not going too far, you 369 00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:38,240 know what I mean. You throw in a few little elements, you've thrown 370 00:29:38,319 --> 00:29:45,160 that type of style of golf. It's just start asking, Start pulling caddies 371 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:49,359 at some of these best courses in America and ask them if the ball's going 372 00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:55,880 too far for the bags that they carry. Trust me, ninety four percent 373 00:29:55,920 --> 00:30:00,640 of the caddies pulled would tell you they wish the ball went further. And 374 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:07,119 there's a natural rollback that happens by virtue of age and and and you know, 375 00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:11,559 and and physical restrictions. That's already happening to us, whether we like 376 00:30:11,599 --> 00:30:15,880 it or not. It's called getting older and not being able to rotate as 377 00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:19,319 much. And you know a lot of the twenty somethings or thirty something younger 378 00:30:19,359 --> 00:30:25,240 thirty something there going oh you know, you know we need to roll it 379 00:30:25,279 --> 00:30:27,359 back. Okay, just give it, give it ten years, and tell 380 00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:32,000 me if you think it still should be rolled back, right right, come 381 00:30:32,039 --> 00:30:34,319 back to me in a in a decade. We come on. You get 382 00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:37,519 one or two gray hairs in your head, then let's talk about Paul is 383 00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:42,960 actually going too far for you? Congratulations, Enjoy it well, lasts because 384 00:30:44,119 --> 00:30:45,680 a year or two or five years from now, it's not going to be 385 00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:52,319 the case. Yep, yep, I don't know what made me think about 386 00:30:52,359 --> 00:30:56,119 this this past weekend watching the Open Championship. But you talk about using a 387 00:30:56,119 --> 00:31:02,880 metal bat for you know, when you play softball. But I guess this 388 00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:07,559 is really obvious, but it occurred to me, like the finally occurred to 389 00:31:07,559 --> 00:31:12,119 me that the people who go to see professional sports. Now we're talking about 390 00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:18,880 football, baseball, basketball, hockey, right, not golf. How many 391 00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:23,839 of those people you think play the sport. But when you go when you 392 00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:30,400 watch a major or any golf tournament on television, what ninety nine percent of 393 00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:37,480 the people who are attending that event, they're golfers to some degree whatever that 394 00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:41,680 is again, whether that's you know, a couple of rounds or they you 395 00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:45,880 know that, whatever that is. And the good news is they participate in 396 00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:51,000 the sport as opposed to being just a voyer. And the good news is 397 00:31:51,039 --> 00:31:55,039 there's so many different entry points of what is the sport. Now again going 398 00:31:55,119 --> 00:31:59,640 back to the basketball analogy, and that you know, if you went out 399 00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:02,799 and play horse, you played basketball that day. If you played seven up, 400 00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:06,279 or if you played two on two or you played one on one, 401 00:32:06,319 --> 00:32:09,400 you played basketball that day. You didn't play five on five full court. 402 00:32:09,559 --> 00:32:14,839 You know, you know, basketball in order to play basketball. And I 403 00:32:14,839 --> 00:32:19,279 think now we have all these different variations of what is golf, from top 404 00:32:19,359 --> 00:32:25,119 golf to putting courses to you know, simulator experiences now that are becoming super 405 00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:29,680 social. And again, if you go to Korea, you know, there's 406 00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:31,880 a there's a simulator on every corner, like there is a Starbucks in New 407 00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:37,480 York. It's it's like they're there. That's the way people consume the game 408 00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:43,200 is simulator experiences or driving range experiences and and so uh, you know, 409 00:32:44,039 --> 00:32:50,599 I love that this game that especially in this country, has evolved fairly quickly 410 00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:52,759 considering you know, twenty five years ago was doom and gloom. It was 411 00:32:53,359 --> 00:33:00,319 takes too long, it's too expensive, it's too hard, and now apparently 412 00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:05,519 the issue is the ball goes too far. Like I don't that we we've 413 00:33:05,559 --> 00:33:08,680 you know, like I think I think, you know, I'm on the 414 00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:14,480 board of youth on course. Kids can get cards and play for five dollars 415 00:33:14,519 --> 00:33:17,920 or less at now almost two thousand golf courses in America. It's now spread 416 00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:24,200 across the country subsidized green fees for juniors. So so the affordability, accessibility 417 00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:29,279 I think has has evolved. A lot of women and girls are getting into 418 00:33:29,279 --> 00:33:31,839 the game. That's amazing for the true health of the sport in general. 419 00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:37,960 A LPGA seems to be, you know, in a really good place thanks 420 00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:40,839 to a lot of a lot of you know, very likable, watchable, 421 00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:46,119 enjoyable, you know leaders in that sport and Nelly Corda being you know, 422 00:33:46,559 --> 00:33:52,440 the Scottie Shuffler of the LPGA, and I don't know the game, the 423 00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:55,559 game is in a great place. I would get rid of ob white steaks 424 00:33:55,559 --> 00:34:00,799 and just I'd make everything red steaks. I mean there's you know, just 425 00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:08,519 little fun tweaks, little things that kind of that just pass the sensibility test. 426 00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:15,760 I would continue to massage those and make them make sense to you know, 427 00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:19,159 I I think you know, I played Goat Hill Park. Everybody knows 428 00:34:19,159 --> 00:34:22,480 this. I'm wearing a Winter Park nine hat it because that's where you know, 429 00:34:22,559 --> 00:34:27,559 we you know, a big group of people helped transform that community asset 430 00:34:27,679 --> 00:34:31,039 that was underachieving into something that's now overachieving. Great goat Hill Park. There's 431 00:34:31,039 --> 00:34:36,440 no dress code. It's dogs, it's kids, it's music, it's fun, 432 00:34:36,519 --> 00:34:39,159 it's you know, it's it's it's a community. It feels like a 433 00:34:39,199 --> 00:34:43,239 family. You know, I go there and I don't even play golf and 434 00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:46,000 have a stop in to see my friends or my son knows more people there 435 00:34:46,039 --> 00:34:50,719 than I do. I mean, it's like, you know, like the 436 00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:54,440 game isn't a really good place. So if I were a part of some 437 00:34:54,559 --> 00:35:00,119 of this golf leadership, I would be making sure that I would be doing 438 00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:07,599 things that continued the path of growth and not things that like felt like they 439 00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:13,280 were having it go two steps back. Is that a crazy concept? I 440 00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:25,239 don't think so. Recently, I've been coaching at First T. There's a 441 00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:30,440 new First T program here up in Marin and Sonoma County, and I've been 442 00:35:30,559 --> 00:35:35,679 working with six to ten year olds. That's got to be rewarding and amazing, 443 00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:40,360 and it's adorable. It's adorable. It's a lot easier than trying to 444 00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:45,840 teach my three year old grandson to but he keeps hitting himself in the head 445 00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:52,960 with his butter. But there's so many opportunities to be part of the community. 446 00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:59,519 What have you been up to recently? Well, I mean we you 447 00:35:59,559 --> 00:36:05,800 know, what was the fire pit collective is what I mean? The collective 448 00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:09,360 was what I pivoted out of you know, again I've told this story multiple 449 00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:15,679 times, but I leave Golf Channel twenty twenty start what was going to be 450 00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:19,599 my you know, a production company. It was called Dawn Patrol Productions. 451 00:36:19,639 --> 00:36:23,760 It was going to be travel lifestyle architecture events. A month later, COVID 452 00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:28,480 hit, so then you know, travel lifestyle events that didn't you know, 453 00:36:28,519 --> 00:36:30,519 that was going to be like uh, that was just bad, really bad 454 00:36:30,559 --> 00:36:37,440 timing. So then it was like, well, maybe maybe we create you 455 00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:40,559 know this talking to Alan Chipnuk was like, let's create a collective, you 456 00:36:40,559 --> 00:36:45,960 know, a team of not unlike what was happening at Barstool or No Laying 457 00:36:46,039 --> 00:36:52,400 Up some of these other you know, boutique media outlets kind of joining forces 458 00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:57,960 and creating a team of storytellers. And you know, I think we were. 459 00:36:58,119 --> 00:37:00,440 I think we were surrounding ourselves with very talented people. I think there 460 00:37:00,519 --> 00:37:05,199 was a there was a ton of opportunity to try to you know, form 461 00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:08,960 one of those one of those additional you know, storytelling outlets. And I 462 00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:15,880 think we told some really cool stories with people like Ryan French or Michael Bamberger, 463 00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:20,559 Coltneddler, Las Versaillas or Jordan Perez or you know, we we had 464 00:37:20,599 --> 00:37:25,400 a we had an incredible team of people that we were working with, but 465 00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:30,760 we just got too big, too fast. I brought everybody in. You 466 00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:36,400 know, salaries were too high, and we I thought it was gonna be 467 00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:40,840 a little easier to sell content, sell stories, you know. There turns 468 00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:46,000 out that takes time. You need audience to sell. Yeah, we weren't 469 00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:49,840 in our twenties, you know, as Alan and I were saying, here 470 00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:53,440 we are in our late forties feeling like we got to go, got to 471 00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:57,280 go, gotta go. And we kind of got drunk on the success of 472 00:37:57,360 --> 00:38:00,599 the phil book and the excerpt and that kind of going globally viral, and 473 00:38:00,639 --> 00:38:04,119 it was like, oh wow, here we go. This is We got 474 00:38:04,159 --> 00:38:06,960 all these analytics and all this feedback, but we didn't have a field book 475 00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:08,239 every week, right, I mean, you got you know, you don't 476 00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:12,840 get that. So a lot of hard lessons learned, a lot of time, 477 00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:22,039 energy expense put into that, and then not only to try to make 478 00:38:22,079 --> 00:38:23,440 it work at the start, but to try to make it work at the 479 00:38:23,559 --> 00:38:28,960 end. It's very hard to admit you're wrong, or it's very hard to 480 00:38:29,039 --> 00:38:32,840 admit a loss. It's very hard to like, actually, you know, 481 00:38:34,159 --> 00:38:38,079 come to terms with you know, I had worked at Sports Illustrated Golf Die 482 00:38:38,119 --> 00:38:43,039 Just Golf Channel, I had, you know, I had only worked for 483 00:38:43,119 --> 00:38:46,320 a big, you know, big company. I had had you know, 484 00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:53,159 whatever is deemed success and sort of telling stories and sharing experiences, and thought 485 00:38:53,199 --> 00:38:55,159 I could roll right in, and I got to kind of you know, 486 00:38:55,280 --> 00:39:00,920 got speed bumped by COVID, and then and then it turns out maybe I'm 487 00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:05,039 actually not that great at managing a large group of people. While also trying 488 00:39:05,079 --> 00:39:06,840 to tell I mean, I don't know, I've learned, you know, 489 00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:08,960 learned a lot about myself. I've learned a lot of people about the people 490 00:39:09,599 --> 00:39:13,199 in my life. I've learned a lot about my family, who have been 491 00:39:13,199 --> 00:39:20,679 incredible and super supportive and amazing. So here we are now at what I'm 492 00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:24,239 you know, in theory referring to as Firepit Productions. So the production I'm 493 00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:29,599 sort of back to the beginning, that original concept of a production company in 494 00:39:29,639 --> 00:39:35,480 which I tell stories about you know, places and people and things, architects, 495 00:39:35,599 --> 00:39:40,119 architecture, restoration, renovation, new developments, getting into the event's business. 496 00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:45,000 With what we're calling Bonfirebonfire two man dot com. We're gonna have events 497 00:39:45,039 --> 00:39:47,960 at you know, Pasa Tiempo in December. We're going to going to Gamble 498 00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:54,360 Sands in October. David we're documenting the David mcclay's second build at Gamble Sands. 499 00:39:54,920 --> 00:40:02,320 We're documenting Jim Orbina's restoration and you know of all Alistair McKenzie Greens. 500 00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:06,320 So they did the front nine the first year and now they're doing the back 501 00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:09,280 nine and we're in We're called in the dirt there. We did the Golden 502 00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:15,480 Gate Park restoration renovation by Jay BLASEI which is a huge success and an amazing 503 00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:20,000 story. I've never played there, you know, I've known there was a 504 00:40:20,079 --> 00:40:24,679 little nine hole at the park, and I played the Olympic Club recently which 505 00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:30,400 was awesome, and I love Harding Park, but I've never played in Golden 506 00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:36,519 Parting Yeahgate Park and it's a nine hole part three course and again WP nine 507 00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:40,320 Golden Gate Park, I mean Goat Hill Park. This Golden Gate Park is 508 00:40:42,079 --> 00:40:49,480 another you know, it was an underutilized, underachieving community asset. Dan Burke 509 00:40:49,599 --> 00:40:52,960 and Jay Blasi and Josh Lewis and some of these guys have gone in there 510 00:40:53,159 --> 00:41:00,880 and absolutely made you know, with some private investment in funding made this into 511 00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:07,840 what is going to be an absolute gem and impact the community in such a 512 00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:13,760 positive way, far beyond golf right, far beyond people having the occasional home 513 00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:16,400 one and having a great experience. It's just going to be an incredible community 514 00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:21,920 assets already having you know, wild is it open now? Are they working 515 00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:24,760 on it? No? It's open? No? And is it run by 516 00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:32,400 the city? The city essentially you know, it's but Dan Burke, who 517 00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:37,679 knows the game of golf. You know, it is a first tea hub, 518 00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:42,239 it's a first tea facility. It's a extension of Harding Park as a 519 00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:47,039 first tea hub. So they've got golf people in there that know what they're 520 00:41:47,039 --> 00:41:52,760 doing. So yes, from an agronomy standpoint, the city is still managing 521 00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:55,719 it, and I think there's some education that's been happening from the time of 522 00:41:55,760 --> 00:42:00,800 the restoration until now. That's the same thing. Nine. I mean, 523 00:42:00,639 --> 00:42:05,119 John Ashra has the lease and has control over Goat Hill Park, and that's 524 00:42:05,119 --> 00:42:08,679 a huge advantage for him because he is a golf guy. But he's still 525 00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:13,559 using the same superintendent that's been there for thirty plus years because that guy, 526 00:42:14,119 --> 00:42:17,440 you know, knew what he was doing and and just needed some resources to 527 00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:20,800 make it better. And now you got some of the best greens in southern 528 00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:23,679 California go toill Park. So it's not just you know, I know what 529 00:42:23,679 --> 00:42:28,039 you mean, and it's you know, it's cringey when you hear that. 530 00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:31,679 You know the city is managing anything as it relates to golf, and I 531 00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:37,639 wish that was happening less and maybe more cities would actually realize that the real 532 00:42:37,679 --> 00:42:42,039 answer is turning it over to golf people and they can lease it or rent 533 00:42:42,079 --> 00:42:45,440 it, you know what I mean? Right? But I played Lincoln Park 534 00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:50,480 in San Francisco a couple of weeks ago, and fun track terrible condition. 535 00:42:51,159 --> 00:42:54,280 Needs it needs it needs what Golden Gate Park got and hopefully Jay Blonsie gets 536 00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:59,559 that kind of chance Sharp Park, Lincoln Park. I think there's other opportunities 537 00:42:59,599 --> 00:43:05,239 that could come. And again if you keep using if these if these turnarounds 538 00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:12,360 and investments into these community assets keep having success, why wouldn't There's plenty of 539 00:43:12,519 --> 00:43:15,920 blueprints out there to show cities like this is how it works, right, 540 00:43:15,039 --> 00:43:20,880 get golf people in there to do really good golf things and then sit back 541 00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:25,199 and reap the benefits of Now what will be a renaissance of a community asset. 542 00:43:27,079 --> 00:43:30,280 That would be amazing. I would absolutely love that And I cannot wait 543 00:43:30,519 --> 00:43:34,840 to go to Golden Gate Park and play nine holes. Yeah, that's gonna 544 00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:37,440 be phenomenal. Yeah. And the next time you're anywhere near there, and 545 00:43:37,519 --> 00:43:40,800 you're gonna want to go around twenty miles from Yeah, you're gonna love it. 546 00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:45,159 You're gonna love it. Yeah. So Tempo is amazing too. And 547 00:43:45,159 --> 00:43:51,639 what Jim Arbina has done, and justin Mandon and and and earth Sculptures and 548 00:43:52,599 --> 00:43:59,639 these this team of people that have been been tasked by the club to restore 549 00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:05,840 these Mackenzie Greens has been amazing. To be able to sort of help them 550 00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:10,719 tell this story and the next part of that series because we did the Front 551 00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:15,960 nine and that air during the Western Intercollegiate in April, and there's you know 552 00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:19,519 it's there's a five and a half minute version and a three minute version of 553 00:44:19,519 --> 00:44:22,000 what happened on the Front nine. You can see the before and afters, 554 00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:27,320 but we are the Part two is a deep dive into the sixteenth Green, 555 00:44:27,639 --> 00:44:32,880 this sort of feigned multi tiered green that it might be one of the most 556 00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:39,679 famous greens in American golf. And certainly as it relates to Mackenzie's portfolio of 557 00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:46,039 greens, and we are going to show you exactly what they're doing to every 558 00:44:46,079 --> 00:44:51,280 one of these greens in their effort to try to bring them back to what 559 00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:55,599 was intended by Mary Allens and Aliston McKenzie through the lens of the sixteenth Green. 560 00:44:55,840 --> 00:45:01,239 So we have fascinating eight week time lapse that's been running out there. 561 00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:07,880 We have all aspects of everything they've done and the pictures they used as reference 562 00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:12,119 points. And Brett Hochstein, who also worked at Golden Gate Park as a 563 00:45:12,159 --> 00:45:15,880 young great shaper that's helped sort of be part of this group. That's that's 564 00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:23,119 that's you know, putting this putting this gem back together again, and it's 565 00:45:23,199 --> 00:45:27,920 really cool. It's it's a very successful story. And we're we're following Core 566 00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:31,119 and Crenshaw Crazy Mountain Ranches. They build a very high end private experience for 567 00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:36,519 Sam Byrne at the base of the Crazy Mountains outside of Bozeman, Montana, 568 00:45:36,559 --> 00:45:40,159 which is just spectacular. So we got David Kidd, Core Crenshaw, Jay 569 00:45:40,199 --> 00:45:45,239 Blasi, and Jim Orbina that were kind of really intimately involved in sort of 570 00:45:46,239 --> 00:45:50,960 you know, documenting what they're doing, you know, again, from new 571 00:45:51,039 --> 00:45:59,280 builds to restorations to renovations and uh and and it's with four very talented architects 572 00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:02,639 who you know, have very distinctly different styles and I love all of it. 573 00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:08,440 Wow, I have to get back to Pasa Tampa because the one time 574 00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:14,239 that I played there was right in the worst part of the drought that we 575 00:46:14,239 --> 00:46:19,199 were having, and they hadn't watered in a long time, and it was 576 00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:22,199 just really difficult to play there. Everything was rock hard, the greens were 577 00:46:22,199 --> 00:46:27,360 not in great shape. It was really kind of sad. Well. I 578 00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:30,719 did that story for Golf Channel and what was called Water Week at that time. 579 00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:36,079 They were in the middle of a five year drought, right and they 580 00:46:36,119 --> 00:46:42,679 didn't have water. They didn't have access to water reclaimed water, so it 581 00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:46,400 was all potable water and those water costs were outrageous and they were drilling and 582 00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:52,119 trying to find well water. And meanwhile, next door it's Scott's Valley. 583 00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:57,679 Scott's Valley has one of the biggest water treatment plants in the country. Don't 584 00:46:57,760 --> 00:47:00,519 quote me on that, but I know they have a massive water treatment facility 585 00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:05,360 and they were making so much reclaimed water a big chunk of it was going 586 00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:08,239 back out into the ocean. And meanwhile, past Teampo is their next door 587 00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:12,599 neighbor, and they're going, we are dying on the vine over here in 588 00:47:12,599 --> 00:47:16,440 one of our community assets at this Alixe McKenzie, Marion Hollins, you know, 589 00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:24,639 gem of of sort of piece of what's happening in American golf and your 590 00:47:24,679 --> 00:47:29,440 water's going out there. And the smart people and sends me people got in 591 00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:31,679 the right room. Scott quite, the former GM of Postuma, deserves a 592 00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:37,599 lot of credit. Justin Mannon again, who's still currently the superintendent, deserves 593 00:47:37,599 --> 00:47:40,599 a lot of credit. Deals were made and essentially they got some of that 594 00:47:40,719 --> 00:47:45,920 reclaimed water to Passe Tiempo and made it all make sense and they essentially has 595 00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:52,920 set that place back up for a sustainable next one hundred years with diversifying the 596 00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:57,719 water portfolio. And that's when they started feeling like, now we can start 597 00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:01,320 focusing on our green Once they had the water is Shoe resolved, which took 598 00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:06,599 you know, a lot of a lot of a lot of phone calls and 599 00:48:06,639 --> 00:48:12,440 meetings and conversations and again sense of people making sensible decisions. Now they now 600 00:48:12,559 --> 00:48:16,000 that the membership and leadership of Pastia got to focus on the greens. They 601 00:48:16,079 --> 00:48:21,519 knew they needed to do something to try to, you know, enhance the 602 00:48:21,519 --> 00:48:24,280 sustainability of those greens, and it run out of pinnable locations. I mean 603 00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:30,960 with you know, with top dressing and sand splash in almost one hundred years 604 00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:37,840 of washouts and mother nature. You know, you're you're looking at almost twelve 605 00:48:37,840 --> 00:48:45,480 to eighteen inches of sort of time being put on top of these of these 606 00:48:45,079 --> 00:48:51,199 putting surfaces. And what what you do is if you're top dressing only the 607 00:48:51,239 --> 00:48:53,880 putting surfaces and nothing in the surrounds, well, what happens is you can 608 00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:59,119 you can take like what would be considered a punch bowl green and it almost 609 00:48:59,159 --> 00:49:04,599 becomes a Donald you know, upside down bold green by virtue of just time 610 00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:07,920 or sand splash around the bunkers that are coming. So learning all about all 611 00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:13,920 this then also what was happening under the ground there from an agronomy standpoint was 612 00:49:14,039 --> 00:49:22,280 just archaic, and you had things like thatch and lack of drainage. So 613 00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:25,360 they needed to pull all that apart. And again we've watched them do this. 614 00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:30,760 It's been a bit of an archaeological essentially dig back into time and trying 615 00:49:30,760 --> 00:49:37,400 to understand what Mackenzie and Hollins's intent were. And then now with Urbina's you 616 00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:43,880 know, references of images and slight interpretation and understanding of what, you know, 617 00:49:43,960 --> 00:49:46,599 what could have been or should have been. And again given today's modern 618 00:49:46,679 --> 00:49:51,280 day green speeds, the eighteenth green, for example, you went from one, 619 00:49:51,519 --> 00:49:54,679 maybe two, two and a half pinnable locations. If the greens are 620 00:49:54,719 --> 00:49:59,199 running at nine, if they're running at eleven, you really just had almost 621 00:49:59,280 --> 00:50:02,760 no pin location. Now you have upwards of eight the fifth green, eighth 622 00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:07,400 green, you know what's going to be, the sixteenth green, seventeen like 623 00:50:07,559 --> 00:50:12,960 it, just you've got these now this shelving pattern within these greens, you 624 00:50:13,039 --> 00:50:16,320 got greens within the green. That gives Justin Mannon in the club a lot 625 00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:23,840 more options and opportunities to create a variety of where you're playing and where you're 626 00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:30,519 attacking these greens. And it's it's amazing, it's really really incredible, incredibly 627 00:50:30,599 --> 00:50:36,440 successful project that I think everyone's going to get, whoever deserves credit's going to 628 00:50:36,519 --> 00:50:39,760 get it. Great. Great, all right, last question, we'll wrap 629 00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:45,519 this up. I'm just where what are you putting out these days? Do 630 00:50:45,519 --> 00:50:49,480 you have any content, new content that we can hear is fire Pit podcast 631 00:50:49,599 --> 00:50:53,280 happening or Yeah, I'm going to get back to it again. Where my 632 00:50:53,480 --> 00:51:00,840 wife is the most recent addition to Real Housewives of Orange County. So that 633 00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:06,639 was six months of shooting really for her and us as a family. Now 634 00:51:07,360 --> 00:51:10,960 I needed to kind of work on sort of pulling apart fire Pit collective while 635 00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:15,800 also trying to give her the give her the driver's seat of whatever it is 636 00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:22,079 that is this family business. We have a company called te Shots We're working 637 00:51:22,119 --> 00:51:25,599 on which is flavored shots and golf ball dispensers and a sleeve of four so 638 00:51:25,679 --> 00:51:30,159 we have that you don't be seeing more of. I will get back to 639 00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:36,480 storytelling and again again these are we are a production company. I have clients 640 00:51:36,519 --> 00:51:39,400 that I'm working with and try to tell their stories. I will ultimately get 641 00:51:39,440 --> 00:51:44,800 back to my personal storytelling in which I do more podcasting. Like I said, 642 00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:50,400 I'm sitting on at least five or six reported out timeless podcasts, including 643 00:51:50,480 --> 00:51:54,280 Nancy Lopez and Jack Nicholas, is thirteen hundred Pound Marlin and some of these 644 00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:59,320 things that I've got a variety of voices talking about. But for now I'm 645 00:51:59,320 --> 00:52:02,559 focused on on my family, and again we have some My father's not doing 646 00:52:02,559 --> 00:52:07,760 well. My wife's on Orange County housewife that's coming with a lot of uh, 647 00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:14,920 you know, responsibilities and pressures and time time commitments, t shots, 648 00:52:15,519 --> 00:52:17,480 and then you know, other than that, we don't have much going on. 649 00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:23,679 So ain't nothing happening. Matt, Thanks so much, man, it 650 00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:25,800 was so great to talk to you. I I know, all I have 651 00:52:25,840 --> 00:52:29,280 to do is write down one or two things and it's going to be an 652 00:52:29,320 --> 00:52:32,320 easy conversation. Yeah, well, let's play. We got a bonfire at 653 00:52:32,360 --> 00:52:37,840 Pasa Tempa December nineteenth, where everybody's welcome to come join us. We're going 654 00:52:37,880 --> 00:52:39,159 to have an outing there. Jim Orbina will be there. We'll have a 655 00:52:39,719 --> 00:52:45,360 we'll have lunches and dinners and around the golf where we maybe we teat at 656 00:52:45,360 --> 00:52:50,119 Golden Gate Park when I'm in town. We'll we'll find a way to play 657 00:52:50,159 --> 00:52:52,519 some golf and use our lab putt. What happens when two people use lab 658 00:52:52,519 --> 00:52:55,800 putters and they're really good at it's going to come down to the final fut 659 00:52:57,079 --> 00:53:00,039 Obviously, it's hope. So it's a it's a big it's the meeting place 660 00:53:00,039 --> 00:53:07,079 of hope. Never loose hope. Great talking to you, Matt. Thanks 661 00:53:07,599 --> 00:53:14,039 thanks as always friend to keep care well. Now that we talked a little 662 00:53:14,039 --> 00:53:17,639 more about Lab Golf with another fan of the company, next week we'll get 663 00:53:17,679 --> 00:53:22,320 to go inside the walls of the Lab Golf factory and get a tour from 664 00:53:22,440 --> 00:53:28,719 CEO Sam Han. In addition, Sam will provide me with a tutorial on 665 00:53:28,800 --> 00:53:34,039 how to best utilize my new DF three broomstick putter. But it's not just 666 00:53:34,079 --> 00:53:37,519 the podcast next week, the tour and the tutorial, which will be one 667 00:53:37,679 --> 00:53:45,000 podcast episode, will also be available as two separate videos on our YouTube channel 668 00:53:45,320 --> 00:53:49,679 at golf Smarter. I want to thank this week's Golf Smarter Ambassador, Maryanne 669 00:53:49,719 --> 00:53:53,320 Zurich from Lake Forest, Illinois. Now, Marianna has received the free link 670 00:53:53,360 --> 00:53:58,800 to Tony Manzoni's video of the loss Fundamental for opening today's episode. You know, 671 00:53:59,199 --> 00:54:02,559 it's free to become a Golf Smarter Ambassador, and the only barrier to 672 00:54:02,760 --> 00:54:07,599 entry is not asking to play. Through when you do ask to play, 673 00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:12,559 you'll get a choice of a free gift. All you need to do to 674 00:54:12,639 --> 00:54:16,679 become one of our featured Golf Smarter Ambassadors is introduce a future episode. Just 675 00:54:16,719 --> 00:54:21,519 write to golf Smarter Podcast at gmail dot com and I'll get back to you 676 00:54:21,559 --> 00:54:24,559 with some simple instructions on what to say and what to do. If you 677 00:54:24,599 --> 00:54:30,480 have any questions, comments, or suggestions for upcoming episodes, please write to 678 00:54:30,559 --> 00:54:35,719 golf Smarter Podcast at gmail dot com or click on the Heyfred button when you 679 00:54:35,800 --> 00:54:37,559 visit golfsmarter dot com