Hello, and welcome to Open My GUFO Radio. I am your host,
Alessandro Rojas, and I am here all by my lonesome once again. Martin
is busy with some paperwork. Unfortunately, of course you all know he's a
busy guy. He's got his own business, and we probably talk about his
business more than you all appreciate. It's just like, I am a big
fan of like antiques and history and stuff, and that's what he does.
He is an antique appraiser, so he does some really cool stuff. He
gets to look at some really cool stuff. And he's off busy right now,
so the show must go on, and I've got a lot of news
to talk about anyway. But for those of you who don't know, welcome
to Open Minds GUFO Radio, where we cover credible UFO news and information from
a journalistic point of view. So we share with you substantiated information. If
we speculate, we call it speculation, whereas the majority of people out in
this field, unfortunately, are speculating and just kind of guessing and about stuff.
But I like to show and share the real, substantiated, real credible
information, or at least what mainstream and people out there in the mainstream are
doing so and there is so much interesting stuff going on right now. In
fact, our guest to day is called UFO Joe Joe Mergia is his name,
and he is out there posting really cool stuff. Just like Danny Silva
from the last show. Joe is looking at stories and related to some of
the credible stuff coming out and sharing some of the things that some of us
are missing, or he's going to events where some of us aren't and he
reports on that. The other thing that he does that is really really helpful
is that he creates transcripts. So for instance, you know, I was
in Alabama with the Scientific Coalition for Ufology and Louie Alizondo was there, who
used to run the Pentagon UFO program, and Joe has already gone and made
a transcript of that whole thing, which is still extremely helpful for people like
me who are writing about it, so we can have, you know,
written down all everything that they've said, which just saves us so much time
when we're doing research. So really great stuff that Joe does. So I
wanted to have him on the show to talk a little bit about what he
is up to, like what he does how he got into this stuff.
Just to introduce you all to Joe and his work, because he's someone that
I think is really important that you all need to follow. He's a freelance
cameraman and director of photography on his own, so he's worked on some cool
TV shows and stuff, and we're actually going to be talking about that during
the interview. So a great show today. I think you all are going
to really really enjoy it. We have some exciting shows coming up. Oh
that reminds me, by the way, So as you all know, like
it's expensive to do this stuff, to do these podcasts and to share all
this information I do and everything, and there's very little that I get in
return. Like there are some ads that run here on blog talk, and
so I do make a cut on those. But I've been looking for routes
because I don't want to have to get some other jobs that take me away
from focusing on all of this stuff. And I don't think you all want
me to either. So here's what I'm asking you all to if you can
all, please, if you can afford it, please become a one dollar
patron on Patreon for me. Please. I'm asking you to do that because
that really helps me out. And here's what I pledge to do for you,
because as you all know, if you've been following for a while,
I don't ask people to do something for me without giving something in return.
So if you become a one dollar Patreon, then I will post early as
early as I can who my guess is going to be for the following show,
and then you can also post your questions for that guest. So here's
a little sneak peek. You all know that I've got Loue Alzando coming up,
but I've also got Eric Davis coming up. Doctor Eric Davis. Now,
he's a physicist that has worked on all of these programs. So he's
worked with Big Low Aerospace, who got the a Tip Pro project Or contract
to work with a Tip Depentagon on their UFO stuff. They've also worked for
years on other normal things, including the Wild and Crazy Skinwalker ranch. So
we'll be able to ask Eric Davis a lot of stuff about that. If
you go to my Patreon, you'll see there's a hidden or a post there
about my next guest and asking questions, but you're not gonna be able to
click on it and submit your questions, and let's you're a patron, So
I apologize to those of you who might be frustrated. Why do they have
to charge? But you know what, it's not free for us to do
this stuff with and you know, just like anything, if people can't sustain
doing it, then they leave. And there's a lot of people who have
had to leave the field are just really severely decline how much they can do
because they just don't have the time to do it. So help keep me
doing this and if you appreciate it, I think a buck a month is
not very much right, and that's all I'm asking. So if you become
that first level patron on Patreon, links are all over the place, then
you'll be privy to this information. I also promise to share with you little
interviews and snippets that I talked to. You know, I'm always out there
interviewing or hanging out with UFO people or paranormal people. So I'll post on
a regular basis just little Q and a's or little audio clips when I meet
these guys some questions that you all may have, so that you're going to
get some inside information nobody else is going to get. So I'll provide you
a lot for that one dollar a month, so please do. That'd be
very much appreciated, and you'll be getting a lot of stuff that I think
that you want. But before let's we get to the interview, let's go
ahead and I'll candata to give you all of this freak stuff that I give,
which is including talking about UFOs in the headline, so check out let's
check out UFOs in the news. And there was a lot of news going
around. So first of all, I want to talk about some of the
posts that I've posted on Open Minds TV. So there's a couple of things
here that I think are really going to interest you all. So there was
some news and I have kind of an exclusive image and it wasn't exclusive,
it wasn't given just to me. I'm just the only one to post it
thus far. But the History Channel provided some information in their press portal about
the History Channel's upcoming show that is covering Louel Azando and the Pentagon UFO project
and also the to the Stars Project, and they're premiering the show on May
thirty first, So you can see that in the links there on Open Minds.
Also, I did a little interview with Louel Azanda, where I asked
them about, you know, there are these two terms for this Pentagon project,
the Advanced Aerospace Weapons System Application Program as app or a TIP, the
Advanced Aerospace Threat ide Identification Program. What's the difference? Why did the name
change? And why is only one of these names or acronyms. Why does
only one of them appear in the New York Times article? So I'm sure
this is a lot of questions that you all have. There are a lot
of people that we're curious about all of this. So I heard all that
up and wrote that in a little article that I have on Patreon now that
is viewable for free. I also have a link here on the front page
of Openminds dot tv, so you could check that out. And then I
think last week we talked about my other Patreon posts that I have out there
three items that cast out on the study used to close Project blue Book,
and that was really just to show, hey, if there are people out
there that are doubting the Condon report, and the Condon Report was used to
close Project blue Book, there's there's a legit reasons why. There's legit reasons
why to doubt the conclusion that Professor Condon came to that there was no use
at studying UFOs, and so I go over that in that article. But
yeah, these are some interesting things that you'll want to check out. And
I guess just to answer that question for you also that I asked lou about
from as app to a tip is what I call it why Essentially what he
says is and we've heard this from George Knapp's interview and from others. A
SAP, which a lot of people don't realize, covered the entire paranormal gamut.
So it was investigating a lot of paranormal stuff. This, as we
learned first from George Knapp, and is covered a little bit in the New
York Times, was because of Skinwalker Ranch. A DEA agent had gone to
Skinwalker Ranch he had a paranormal experience. This was after two thousand and five,
so this was after the book came out about Skinwalker Ranch that George Knapp,
the journalist and the lead scientist for Big Low Era Aerospace at the time
in the National Institute for Discovery Scientists Colin Kelleher wrote that book with George Napp.
So the book comes out this diagent wants to check it out. According
to George, there wasn't any paranormal stuff that they had witnessed for a long
time at the ranch. But the CIA agent goes out there has I guess
this extreme like crazy experience. He goes back to Washington, d C.
Says, Harry talks to big Low Bigelow and and he, according to Reid
and the New York Times, approach Harry Reid and say, hey, we
have to look into this. Harry Reid says, I agree, and then
he goes and gets funding for the project. We know that from the New
York Times. But the New York Times said the funding was for a tip.
But we found out the first name for the group was as ASAP essentially,
so why didn't the New York Times mention that. Well, it turns
out Lou was one of their interviewers. But from what he gathers, the
New York Times didn't know that ASAP a SAP existed first, and it wasn't
Lou's program. Lou didn't join until later on, and he joined a tip,
and so he didn't feel at liberty to disclose ASAPP just a tip,
So he told them about a tip so they ran with that. Later on,
George Napp and others were able to release information about ASAP and there's more
out there about it, and I've got links to all of that in this
story. The big difference was that you know all this weirdness that was happening
at Skinwalker Ranch, and you if you've been with me for a while,
I've interviewed a lot of people about it, and of course Jeremy Corbel did
that film documentary on it recently. A lot of weirdness happened there, and
like George Knaptolis, there were a lot of people in the government who,
for religious reasons, that this was demonic and that we should investigate it.
So a ASAP was getting a lot of heat. In the meantime, in
the background, they decided, well, let's start a less controversial subgroup called
a TIP, and that's just going to focus on military UFO cases. So
that's the difference ASAP paranormal. A TIP is just UFOs or UAPs or AAVs,
these other acronyms for UFOs that they've used. As time went on,
OSTEP kept getting hate from these very powerful religious groups that wanted them not to
investigate the paranormal into anymore, and eventually, as time went on, OSAP
was kind of destroyed. It was gone, and all that was left was
a tip. Then in twenty ten, Luis Alessandro takes control of a TIP.
He moves it to the office of the Secretary of Defense where he works,
and it continues investigating UFOs supposedly to this day, although they've changed their
name interesting enough and to kind of be hidden for cover. Lou admits this,
so they don't they're not called a tip anymore, but they're investigating UFOs.
So the whole strategy to create a TIP is kind of to save the
UFO topic at least to see if they can pull that out of the program.
And if that was going to be less controversial that they wouldn't you get
all the heat that ASAP got so they can continue doing the UFO work.
And it seemed to work because a TIP didn't get canceled or at least attacked
like ASAP did. So that's how this all came about, which I think
if you look at all the timelines, makes sense. So some people still
might have some questions out there, but at least for me, that pretty
much clears things up. I might have left some stuff out, some details
and things, but it's in my articles there on Patreon, but there's also
links to it at my blog, at the UFO Congress bug and open TV
on the front page. So there you go. So that's that story,
a lot of fun. But some other news out there. So there's a
story from the Star Tribune and I believe this is in Florida, this paper,
but it says why scientists are starting to listen to UFO believers. So
this is really cool, and it's essentially because of this Pentagon program coming out.
This thing is talking about how, you know, people didn't really listen
to UFO people. It covers the mutual UFO network. It shows Kathleen Martin,
whose aunt was Betty Hill of Betty and Barney Hill, the first publicly,
you know, publicized abduction story, and it essentially goes into at the
Pentagon program and move on and how there are more serious people paying attention to
the UFO topic. So it's a really good story. I really like it.
Let's see what else. We've got a story in the Detroit Free Press
and this is in Bob Blazar area. Fifty one documentary directory investigates UFO Whistleblower's
story. So we've had Jeremy Corbel, this filmmaker, on our show quite
a bit, and we'll have him on again because he's a buddy. He's
a good guy, and like I just mentioned, he did a Skinwalker movie
earlier this year, but he's also done this Bob Blazar Area fifty one documentary.
So it's getting more attention even though it's been out for a while.
Essentially, I think that one of the reasons it's getting a lot more attention
is that they were on Joe Rogan or no, they weren't on Joe Rogan.
I should say they want to be. But Joe Rogan has been talking
about the movie quite a bit, and I guess he saw it and he
liked it, So they might be on Joe Rogan to talk about it,
But they were on Larry King not too long ago with Bob Blazart talking about
all of this. So yeah, so the movie is still getting a lot
of attention, which is good. So there's this Q and A and this
long story in the Detroit Free Press that you all can check out if you
like about the film and everything. So it looks like it's going to be
part of a film festival out there as well, So exciting stuff that way.
From our good buddy Jeremy. Here's another one UFO fun shuns Little Green
men to buy satellites and rockets, and this is in Bloomberg. So essentially
the ticket symbol UFO is finally being used, and it is being used by
for space related reasons, but unfortunately it was snatched up before it could cover
any UFO related business in the business field. In fact, what it's going
to be looking at is satellites and rockets. So there's going to be a
UFO ticker essentially out there for the stock market, and that's going to be
covering different company needs in satellites, rockets and and in you know, like
the commercial space and everything. So it's going to be a good ticker to
watch. But that's kind of interesting that they chose UFO for fun of course,
to cover that stuff. Another story here in them Cowertha dot Com which
is from Petersborough and I guess this is in Canada. This is a story
about a Canadian researcher. So this researcher is a PhD student at Trent University
and he noticed that the Canadian government has a lot of files on UFOs out
there, so he decided to do his research on this to look at these
files and to see what they have in them. Now, his interest was
not necessarily in the paranormal itself. His interest is to look at how the
public and the government interface or they're a lack of so what he says,
here's how he just said. It's a socio political study about the conflict between
citizens and the government and an uncertain post war period. Sounds very academic,
doesn't it. He says, it almost has nothing to do with UFOs.
It's more about Canadian identity and how they were trying to choose their identity.
But he does talk about how there are some interesting cases there. He says
that it would it's pretty much ridiculous. He says, I would find it
absurd if life didn't exist elsewhere. So he's convinced there is life elsewhere.
However, looking at these files, he says, there is no proof that
we're being visited from aliens in the files, but that there are some interesting
cases. And since this newspaper was in the Petersborough area, they do talk
about a couple of the sightings in that area, but this guy seems great
personally. He looks like a hard thinker. Of course, I'm partial to
the academics that are taking a serious look at this field in many different aspects,
so I applaud this guy. In fact, I'm going to hunt him
down and try to get him on the podcast at some point. But his
name is Matthew Hayes. And of course you'll find this link at the front
on the front page of Openminds dot tv. We also have another article from
mister Louise Elizondo himself. He's been writing some articles on medium, as you
all know. Mostly these are kind of opinion pieces about his perspective and why
we should be kind of more open minded and kind of really essentially more intelligent
when we think about UFOs and stuff like that. And that's the nature of
this story as well, stop thinking about UAPs in black and white. So
essentially, what he's trying to say is that we don't necessarily need to say
they're aliens or not aliens, that we need to be a little more intelligent
about how we're looking at this. We need to follow the data and look
at things and kind of that there's a lot of stuff out there there could
be many different things, more than one solution to every problem. There could
be a lot going on here when it comes to this topic, rather than
just aliens or not aliens, you know, instead of it's just a ARB
kind of thing. So yeah, so we've got to really check this out.
This is a great article by lou on medium. Oh and here is
something else that's really interesting. So you might have been seeing this going around
online, and it is interesting. I mean, I think it's a little
bit jumping to conclusions. But there was a panel in the Congress. They
had a hearing about the Space Force. So, as I've talked about,
we already have a US Air Force Space Command, and they want to create
a new Space Force or Space Command. And so what they've decided to do
is instead of having its own branch to the military for now, having it
under the Air Force, to be headed by the guy who heads US Space
Command. So I'm not sure, I still and unclear on the difference between
our current Space Command and what this new one will be doing. However,
there have been some hearings and one part was very interesting. So Senator bluementhal
he's a pretty important guy, and we see him on the news quite a
bit talking about various things. He's on the CNN quite a bit. But
Senator Blumenthal, he is a politician from Connecticut. He is a Democrat,
but he's was on this panel saying that we need to tell the public more
about this what we're doing here. He says, we know what we're talking
about in this group, about the reasons we need this and the threats that
we're facing, and he talks about how big these threats are, but he
says the public doesn't even know, doesn't even have context for this information because
we're not sharing enough with them. He says, our adversaries know that we
know what they're doing up there, and they know that they know we know,
but we're not talking about it to the public, even though we're having
these closed doorge conversations about it. We really need to inform the public about
the threats that we're facing. And so people are like, what you know,
is he talking about UFOs? You know, there's this hold. We
know that some of these witnesses to the extraordinary two thousand and four Nimetz case
that the Carrier group had experienced the Nimetz Carrier Group experience, these witnesses,
we know, have talked to some of these congressmen and congress people about what
they saw, and there is some interest in, you know, studying this
phenomenon because of that. Is that what he's talking about. That's a little
assumptive. He does say adversaries, and we do know, of course,
our big adversaries are China and Russia, and we do know China has a
launched a missial and blown up a satellite that's actually caused problems and could have
debris hit the ISS actually as part of the problem. So we don't know
what he's talking about, but there's a lot of ideas out there that he's
talking about aliens or UFOs or something. So I just wanted you to make
you aware of it. But he's very concerned in this clip and it's kind
of scary, so you might want to watch the clip otherwise. Mysterious Universe
it's a great website. It's not necessarily a mainstream website, but it's a
great website with paranormal and UFO stuff and they've got they've always got some really
good stories and they've got great writers there. One of those great writers is
Micah Hanks, the brother to the guy that tests the music for the show.
Actually Micah Hanks, of course we've had on the show. He's got
his own great podcasts, Grealllyan Report. But he's got an article here talking
about Senator John McCain and how John McCain has been into UFOs. So he's
talked to George. He's got a clip from George Knapp where George Napp said,
you know, he had talked to John McCain about UFOs. Harry Reid
had talked about talking to John McCain about UFOs in the past. We know,
and I interviewed, you know, John Burrows, one of the witnesses
to the Rendelstrom case from the UK. He had John McCain's office help get
his military records out because for some reason they were classified. A really interesting
story again you can find that in Open Minds. But yeah, some great
stuff that he has covered in this story about John McCain's interest in UFOs.
Good one in another story on Mysterious Universe this week, it's called Mysterious UFOs
returned to Manitou, Tawak and the Lake Michigan triangle. So there's been a
triangle UFO cited around Lake Michigan and I guess it was also seen again recently,
and there's an online blog that someone told us to and they wrote a
report about it. I don't have time to go into it because we're almost
out of time for this segment. I also want to talk about here's some
UFO Congress news, doctor Michael Masters in time traveling. So doctor Michael Masters
is another professor, and he's interested. He's a teachers anthropology. He's interested
that he thinks, you know, some of these UFOs might be us from
the future. A really interesting idea. So Kevin Randall, most well known
for his Roswell research, a great researcher. He's been on the show a
few times. He interviewed Michael Masters, and I think it's a really great
topic. And this gentleman, Michael Masters, is going to be speaking at
the UFO Congress this year. And here's a little sneak peek for you all.
If you go to the speaker page for the UFO Congress, you're going
to find a few there. So we're getting ready to release our tickets and
release more about speakers. So otherwise, let's see another couple of stories.
Ultimate Guitar has stories about some musicians who believed in conspiracy theory. This you
might find interesting, especially because they do talk about Tom DeLong, but they
talk about a couple other people who believe in like, you know, reptilians
and stuff like that, so that's kind of an interesting story. And then
finally Marty Wild. You guys know Marty Wild, don't. You don't worry
if you don't. I didn't either, So this is like, I guess,
a singer from way back when, but he's also been really into UFOs
and The Mirror, the UK tabloid did a little feature on him because he's
turning eighty and they got into they asked him about his UFO interest, so
you'll have to check that out. So there you go. There's the news.
You can find this all on the front page of openminds dot tv.
But we're out of time for this segment. Coming up right after this break,
we'll be talking to Joe Mercia, so stay tuned. Welcome back to
Open Mind GUFO Radio. I'm your host, Alejandro Rojas, and I am
excited to have on the show for the first time. Joe Mergia, Did
I say that right? You said it? Perfectly awesome. I like to
get it right. Of course, very few can say my name perfectly,
but that's fine. I don't mind too much. Same here. It's very
rare for anybody to get my name right just looking at it. And just
for full disclosure, I had heads up. I did ask about the pronunciation
first, so I didn't just amazingly get it right off the bat. So
I wanted to bring you on the show because you're doing great stuff. You've
got this website UFO Joe at Twitter account and you're transcribing a lot of the
interviews out there that TTSA and a tip people are doing and it's a great
service. But you're also kind of paying it to other stories out there,
and just like Danny Silver, who we had last neat Week, you were
catching on up on items that I think many others are missing because there's just
so much information, there's so much going on. First of all, thanks
for having me on the show. I'm happy to be here. And I
mean there's so much going on that I can't keep up. So I'm so
glad that people out there, like Danny and so many others doing the work.
And it's just it's like a bombardment after like the last couple of days,
I've taken a break because I can't keep up. Yeah, it's just
it gets a little frustrating. It's great, but you can't keep up,
and people want to know, especially because you've got a kind of people know
what you do. And so when something happens, I even see up there,
we've got to wait for Joe. We're waiting for Joe's transfer. Joe,
what is the transcript? And so people are kind of excited for you
to get that out there. Yeah, the pressure is on, But I
mean, I love I love transcribing because it's a really great way for me
to learn more details. And I don't have the best man, so me
going over something multiple times is really good for me. Right, And some
of the people I transcribed to, like Elizondo and Nap, it's just a
pleasure just to listen to them. Those those are two of my favorite people.
So listening to them talking, getting new getting new details, it's just
it's fun. It's fun for me. Yeah, I want to talk to
you about that so much, but I want to I want to first get
into you, So we'll get into some of that because I agree with you
one hundred percent. But you know, I want to introduce you to my
audience as well. So I'm curious kind of your background. So when did
you first get interested in this topic? So my first memory is the early
seventies. I went to the theater and saw a big foot movie called a
Legend of Bogie Creek, and it was a It was a docu drama,
so basically it was like it they portrayed it as a documentary, but it
was with actors. But then the first movie, it was a double feature
in the first movie was a UFO documentary. Now I don't remember exactly the
details. I just remember I was intrigued. I had never seen anything like
that. I was young, so really really enjoyed that. But next I
in search of do you remember the show? In search of, oh,
yeah, I love that show. I loved that show and I watched it.
And then nineteen seventy seven came and I went to the theater to see
Close Encounters of the Third Kind and that was it. I mean, I
loved that movie so much. And the thing was, though I didn't pursue
it at all. I mean I was still I was young, but I
didn't know people studied this. So I saw the movie and that was it.
And then over the years, you know, I read some occult books,
stuff on out of body experiences, but not once did I ever come
across a book on UFOs. I just wasn't looking in the right place.
But then nineteen ninety six comes around and I have a close friend and she
goes, you know, I have an aunt. I don't remember how the
subject came up. She goes, I have an aunt that had an encounter
with that being on that book. I'm like, what book are you talking
about? And she goes, I think it's called Communion. So I'm like,
okay. So so I started reading Communion, and I had no idea
it was the beginning was for me, it was frightening. I had no
idea what the book was about. So it really scared me. So one
night I said, I'm not sleeping in my room. I'm sleeping on the
couch. I'm going to sleep on the couch. I'm going to sleep with
the lights on. Next thing, you know, I wake up in the
middle of the night. I'm frozen there. I can't move. I'm paralyzed.
I'm like, uh oh, the aliens. Aliens are coming to take
me. I can't believe this, So it was scary. I think it
was either depends on who you talk to, it's either the beginning of an
out of body state or sleep paralysis. So I got out of it and
I woke and like, you know, I'm not gonna I'm not going to
read this book anymore. I don't need this. This is too scary.
So I put it down. A few days later, I said, he
let me start. I'll start reading again. So I read it and then
I said, oh, this he talks about life after death, reincarnation,
telepathy. There's so much more to this than I ever thought. So I
finished reading it. I read his two other books and went to the bookstore,
and then that just started me down the rabbit hole. I mean,
I read every metaphis, every met physical book I could get my hands on
channel books. I had no discernment. Everything I read I believed, and
just over the years that changed. But back then it was just NonStop reading.
That's basically how I started getting into the subject. That's cool. What
I love about people that are more my age getting into this is that when
we talk about this sort of thing, it makes more sense. So,
for instance, like when I got in this let's say twenty years ago.
A lot of the people I was working with, they were older. So
when they're talking about we're talking about close Encounters. By then, they're already
working with Heineke and everything, you know. But it's cool to talk to
someone who was a kid when that came out, like me, so I
can really identify that, you know, for me, Close Encounters was huge
too. But fortunately I did not come across the Communion book because that would
have scared the academy. Yeah. Yeah, it was not something I was
expecting. But I mean, that book really changed my life. I mean,
that just got me going. And I've seen streamers speak over the years.
Actually I went to LA last year late and saw him speak, and
he's still a great speaker. And I still love I still I love I
love his work. Yeah, you know, he's kind of funny because when
he spoke at to Congress. At first I asked him to speak, He's
like, nobody wants to hear from me, and it was kind of weird,
and I'm like, are you kidding? And he's like, no,
nobody wants to hear from me. And I'm like, yes, they do.
And so even at the conference when he was backstage. He's like,
is there anybody even out there? I don't think people like me very much,
and I'm like, it's packed. I had him take a peek.
I was like, look out there, it's packed. People want to see
you. You're one of the headliners of the show. And he's like he
was shocked by that same thing when after his lecture, it was at somebody's
house in Malibu, so it was like about twenty people, so it's really
intimate, which I loved. But afterwards I went up and I said,
where else are you speaking? He's like, nobody wants nobody wants to hear
me speak, so nowhere. I'm like, at the same response, I'm
like, yes, people do want to you speak. Be there are a
lot of people have not been exposed to his to his materials, so you
know, and I don't know what happened to him. He's he's pretty open
minded about not coming to a conclusion about his experiences and what they represent.
But yeah, he's I think he's extremely important to the topic, So that's
pretty interesting. The sleep paralysisn't interesting too. I've had that on a couple
of occasions, and luckily I was old enough I knew what it was,
but it was certainly very coincidental for you. It was and that and that
that subject, the out of body subject is something I really became obsessed with.
I read books on it and tried to go out of body, did
not have any success. But yes, it was definitely coincidental. And you
know, it's something that once again, it changed. It changed my opinion
on everything. It got me going down to different paths that I would not
have gone down if I had not read that book and had that experience.
Mm hmm. So forward two years later and and you know, all this
news comes up Pentagon Secret Program, Tom DeLong, you know, getting involved
with UFOs, went to this crazy rock star dude. What encouraged you then
to start up your website and to start getting involved with transcribing this information and
sharing it. So let me just I'll pick up around two thousand. The
year two thousand, I decided I was a subscriber to Michael Lindaman's newsletter.
Remember Michael Linderman. Yeah, I knew his life very well. Yeah,
Deborah right, mm hmm. I loved his work. So he was telling
me that, and I started doing my own thing, my own little newsletter
email list. It was called open my news Hell. Oh you still learn
named I won't let our boss know. So it was it was around two
thousand and I was two years away from pension at the City of Tampa Television,
and I quit my job two years short of a pension to pursue my
newsletter because I thought it was so the subject was so important. So I
did that, and Mike Lindaman was just getting at it. He was just
retiring, going to something else. So I did the newsletter and I didn't
pursue it hard enough, so I had to go back into television around two
thousand and two. So, you know, between then and two thousand,
I kind of lost interest. You know, I read a lot of UFO
books, but I kind of lost interest because it was nothing new. I'm
like, okay, back then, I thought, you know, the year
two thousand, we're gonna have disclosure. And then I realized, yeah,
it's not good. It's not gonna happen anytime soon. What convinced you of
that? Just I was just naive back then. It was just I had
just gotten into it, and I'm reading some of the books and people are
predicting this, and then the whole two year, two thousand craze. I'm
like, it's gonna happen. It's gotta happen. This is evidence so clear
cut that somebody's something's interacting with us. And then it didn't happen, and
the eventually I lost interest in. I was like, Okay, how many
UFO reports can I read about it? I'm like, so it stopped until
until I started hearing about Tom DeLong. And the first time I heard DeLong,
I was like, you know what, I don't believe them. I
don't believe this guy. I just I don't. And and then something happened.
I went back and listened to another interview, and then the wikileak stuff
happened. I'm like, okay, let me give it a second second listen.
And then the New York Times I heard about stuff was about to come
out. It came out, and it was like everything I got, the
passion was back. I was like, this is what we need. This
is these are credible people. We need pilots coming out, you know,
the former head of a UFO program. And people were you know, people
around me still weren't interested. But for me, it was like, all
right, this is it I'm gonna start start a website again, get it
going again. I'm gonna get on Twitter and be more active. And that
was really that was another you know, jump start for me, that really
once again changed things for me. Mm hmm yeah. And I mean what
I guess were you seeing out there? So obviously you felt, hey,
there's a gap, there's not enough coverage of this, so I'm gonna get
involved. Is it is that true? I don't know. It was me
looking at coverage. It was just me so passionate. I'm like, I
need to get this out. I need to this is stuff I want to
share. And some of the stuff I was doing, like transcripts, was
not being done and there was a lot of one of the I did a
podcast before the New York Times article came out, and the skepticism of every
guest that I was with, they were so down on DeLong that this is
nothing's gonna happen, nothing's coming from this, this is a waste of time.
It's Tom DeLong. And I was like, yeah, I think maybe
we should wait to see what happened before we start making judgments. And then
when it happened, I'm like, I'm gonna it just it just gave me
that push. It was almost like I wanted to show these guys. Listen,
you guys, you jumped the gun. You were wrong, and it
just started me to write about it. And it just the more I learned,
the more I got excited. And now I can't wait for the History
Channel show to come out and to see what TTSA and some other groups that
are going, you know, working on this, what they can bring.
It's just it's just like a it's like a new day in eufology exactly.
I think you're exactly right, and that's what's fun about people like you and
Danny and others kind of coming out and getting involved because it's like a new
you know, breath of fresh air. As the old instagnant you know,
sticks to it. It's what it's done for years and kind of continues his
path, almost ignorant of the exciting things that are happening. I don't get
it. I don't get it. There are people, you know, I'm
not gonna name names, we know we know people that are saying that a
tip and ASAP did not investigate UFOs. I'm like, so basically, Harry
Reid is coming out saying he started a UFO program and he's lying about that
for what so he can be label as the UFO Senator. Why would he
do that? It makes zero sense that Reid would talk about saying it's a
UFO program, and then you have to say Elsando's lying and Chris Mellon is
lying, and they're all lying and put Off and Bigelow and the whole Bigelow
organization and makes Yeah, it makes it makes zero sense. And Harry Reid
story. So I'm a cameraman. I'm a freelance cameraman and I just I
get calls for different kind of jobs. I shoot sports, reality TV conventions.
And then somebody emails me about three weeks ago and they go, hey,
I got to shoot for you. It's a local politician and we need
to h he just needs to do a thank you video. Are you available?
I'm like yeah, sure, So they tell me the date and then
a couple of days before they go, you're you're gonna be shooting Senator Harry
Reid. So I'm like, oh, okay, great, great, It's
like that's a coincidence. So I shot it and then after the interview was
over, I said, can I ask you about the UFO program. He
goes, yeah so that, Yeah, that'll be on my website real soon.
Yeah, it's not it's not a long interview. I didn't push it
was just like, there's like six minutes I had with him, and I
didn't push it. But he you know, he said, I asked him
about Congress and how much progress he's made about you know, getting getting them
interested in hearings, and it's it's a it's a decent little interview. Is
this on camera? No, he did not want to go on camera,
so it's just a transcription. Still, that is awesome way to go.
Good job on that. Yeah, thanks, it was it was a fortunate
break to get that interview. And how did he come across I mean,
did he come across a little hesitant or was he just very nice and open?
At first, I thought he was hesitant because he's like, I don't
want to do this on camera, Like, okay, can we just just
regular interview, you know, no camera. He's like, yeah, that's
fine, and then yeah, his passion comes out. He's he's definitely frustrated,
you know people, He's the main thing he brings up is the stigma.
He's like, I have a really hard time getting you know, people
in Congress interested because of the stigma. It doesn't matter. And I was
like, maybe some of the younger people. He's like, no, it
doesn't matter. Age does not matter. It's still a stigma, but you
know, it's we're making some progress, and I definitely people should check it
out. I even asked him about boba Are because so many people are like,
what does Harry Reid think about Bob Lazar And I'm like, yeah,
I'm gonna ask him, well and get There was an interview recently, maybe
even in your transcript, where George Knapp said Harry Reid was one of the
first people, like the first person he went to once he heard about Bob
Right. And then people there are people out there saying Harry Reid's not interested
in UFOs and they've never spoken to Harry Reid. So, as George Napp
pointed out, so I don't understand that. Yeah, what I mean,
none of us know Harry Reid. Now we know more because George Nap has
shared some of the stories of how Harry Reid became interested in how they shared
information. But at the time I didn't know that nobody knew that and people
just jump, you know, people are speculating, which once again I don't
I don't understand that. Yeah, you know, and what's the I think
one of the hard parts is, Okay, some of this we do have
to rely on the word of George Knapp. However, he's very, very
credible. He's an award winning journalist. You know, he handles his witnesses
and the credibility of the information very professionally. And there's no reason to doubt
George Knapp exactly. He's the reason. Like with the Bobb Blazar story,
which I'm skeptical about, and like you said, you're in the middle or
you're in the gray basket. The only reason I stay interested in that story
is because of the credibility of George Knapp. And you're exactly right. Same
thing with Skinwalker. People like, well, it's only anecdotal stories. I'm
like, yeah, but it's the people who are telling the stories. And
the person who investigated is an award winning investigative journalist, and yes, I
take his word and I trust him, and he's definitely a big part of
the story and the reason why I'm so interested. And you know, yeah,
we need to have data and evidence. But for now, I'm comfortable
taking his word for a lot of this and what a lot of people miss
when it comes to Skinwalker, because I can see those people, well,
there's not even any data. You know, these guys were scientists, give
us data. All we have is anecdotal. But the experiences people had on
Skinwalker are responsible for ASAP and a tip. And I don't think people get
that. No, and and I still and people are still saying, you
know, they're still it's the whole mistrust of the government and military industrial complex.
And yes, I understand that. But you know, a funny side
story with with my television career, I've one of my bosses always made fun
of my UFO stuff. I worked on different shows with him. Now he's
trying to pitch a show about UFOs with a UFO personality to which I won't
name. And he was my I worked on Pond Stars for seven years.
He was he he was one of my bosses on that show. And then
another boss on another show, Wow is involved with Skinwalker ranch and that show.
So it's like, so I'm working on reality TV and these guys are
both working on UFO shows. Kind of a ironic that's so you are working
on a reality TV show now, I mean I work on ninety Day Fiance.
I've worked for the last year. It's a drama show. It's like
the number one TLC show, and yeah, I'm very familiar with it.
For better or worse, Yeah, I'd rather not be working, but you
know, right now, it pays the bills and it's not that bad.
It's it's definitely close. It's very document's documentary style. So I do like
that. Yeah, that's interesting. So getting back to Harry Reid, can
you share his thoughts on lizaar Do you want that to hold that information for
your release article. Basically, he's in the middle. He's like, you
know, some of the story it rings true to him, and some of
it he doesn't know. And he shared, you know, he shared a
he shared a story that that he wanted to relate to the Bob Lazar story.
I don't have it. I don't have it on me memorized, but
people will see it's a little story compared to some I can't even remember what
it is. But he's he's in the middle. He's in the middle.
Yeah, yeah, so like the rest of us, and probably I believe
George Nap is very influential to his decision on that, just like it is
for for me and apparently you as well. Oh, George Lapp is a
huge influence on well. I even got interested in that case. I really
I never really got too interested in Lazarre and did much reading on until I
started hearing about Jeremy Corbel's documentary coming out and then watching some of George's lectures
on Lazar. And you know, I've found certain things that I'm like,
Okay, yeah, I don't know that's that doesn't make any sense to me.
But you know, I don't know if we'll ever find out the truth
about Lazarre, but it's definitely a it's an interesting and fun story to read
about. Mm hmm. Yeah, Jeremy's I think I very much like Jeremy's
work also, and you know they are friends, and especially Jeremy, and
you know, when I talk with George and Jeremy about Lazard, they know
I'm skeptical and so I have that attitude, but of course they know I
also respet them and their work and what they have to say very much too.
But that's kind of another odd end of it. And and you know,
because I get well, I'm taking it easy on these guys because they're
my buddies. But we do have kind of like politicians at professional you know,
where we know what our roles are. We have to be honest above
every anything, even friendships, and we all understand that it's tough because this
subject it's not you know, it's not like there's that many people in those
positions that are interested in it. So yeah, you're automatically you're going to
become friends with people, and it's yeah, it's tough, you know,
to balance friendship with you know, being skeptical. But that's where we are.
You know. It's not like there's a thousand reporters out there covering this.
Hopefully in our lifetimes we'll see that, but for now, I mean
from George Knapp is the guy you know as far as top reporters, and
if you make friends with them, then it's hard not to because he's such
a likable guy. So you're stuck in the middle. But I don't really
you know, it doesn't really bother me, especially since you know his background.
His credibility speaks for itself. What about you said your favorite people to
listen to are George Knapp and Lou Alessando. What about them in particular do
you appreciate I just love Georgia's style, his humor, sticks to the facts,
Alexando Alessando has yet to say. I mean, I know there's some
details about how the program started and how the videos got released that are you
know, we're learning about. But as far as people say he's spreading this
info or skeptical of that, what has he said that's controversial. Our military
has been engaging with objects that are unknown to us. That's basically what he
says. That's basically what he's been saying. So how is that controversial?
I mean, he's behind some big the government's trying to trick us into what
into believing that our guys and military guys and girls are interacting with unknown objects.
We already know that. It's just now we're getting we're getting more data,
we're getting videos, so you know, and his lecture at the SEU,
which I'm almost untranscribing, was just it was fantastic. I mean,
you can't. I think he's he's the modern day without the astro. You
know, he doesn't have the same degree as Heinek, but he's kind of
like that. For me, he's the modern day Heineck. He's that credible
person. He's the go to guy. He's the face, like I said,
he's the perfect face face of the franchise for TTSA. That's the guy
you want out front. Yeah. And I think his likability has worked against
him in that everybody wants to hear from him because he's I feel, and
he always says no, no, no, But he's very good at presenting.
Like you heard the SEU presentation. He's like, how is that?
Was that okay? And it's like, dude, you're great. I know
that you don't want to be the spokesperson for TTSA. That's not what you
signed up whip for and that's kind of what you've become. But you did
great. I mean, like you said, I mean he's a great presenter,
right, He's a great presenter, and he's very likable and people like,
well, that's because he is a counterintelligence agent and that's what he's known.
That's what he that's what he's good at. He's good at tricking people.
I'm like, yeah, I don't think so, like I said,
if he said something controversial, like DeLong says, controversial stuff. Alizono does
not Alisono sticks. I mean, he's made it. They made a couple
of mistakes with the with the Washington photo and the balloon that was connected you
know, to the to the article online by Puco Cuchiio, the one who
first put the tic tech article online. But it's like, for the most
part, and I know they've had problems with public relations, but the most
but for the most part, I love. I love everything they're doing.
And you know, I'm a little worried about the History Channel show because I've
worked on so many shows. But you know, let's see, the real
goal is will it will it convince more congressional you know, people to get
on board and push for open hearings or push for more funding. You know,
we're out of time, so we're gonna take a short break and then
we'll come back and talk more about this. But for those of you listening
on the radio, you're going to hear a commercial break. For the rest
of you, you'll hear a short musical interlude, and then we'll be back
with Joe Mergia UFO. Joe on Open minds UFO Radio. Welcome back to
Open Mind UFO Radio. I am your host, Alejandro Rojas, and I
have with me Ufo Joe also known as his given name, you Joe Mergia.
And before we left went to the break, we were talking about Lou
Elizondo. And you know, people, whether they want to doubt me or
not, that's fine. But and everybody knows, and even you know in
my conversations with Lou, when I'm like, he's questioned, well is that
accurate? You know what I said? And I'm like, well, here's
my sources, this is what they said. And sometimes somebody goofs and they
didn't say it accurate. And I'm getting clarification from Lou, and of course
he feels bad for that other person or whatever, but or if he's goofed
in the past, but I haven't found in any of it. But I
will call out when you know, well this person said this, is that
true? Ooh, maybe that's not quite right. But I haven't found looking
any major glaring discrepancies or signs of deception. And what's interesting is time goes
on, is all of the pieces fit, especially what with Lou's told us.
Lou says this and this and this was the case. We don't have
evidence of that, but then all of a sudden, you know, stuff
starts to appear, and it's just like Lou said, it was right,
I mean, and people are just waiting. There are people waiting for one
mess up. Oh there it is. I told you he's not to be
trusted. So yeah, he's done. He's done a great job. I
mean, I never I never thought that somebody like him would be coming out
speaking like George Knapp said at his lecture in UFO Mega Con, he's like
so Alessando's steps on the stage says yep, I ran a UFO program in
the Pentagon. It's real. And there was no response. The media was
it was October of twenty seventeen, and I was like, I remember George
and I going on coast to coast saying he had this long open how amazing
it was. And it's people are like, yeah, nah, don't care,
don't care. And that's another thing. When the New York Times article
came out, you know, I told a lot of friends and family about
it, and maybe one or two like that's really interesting. But for the
most part it's once again, yeah, no response. I don't I don't
care. But what that article and Ali Zando coming out have done for me.
Whenever I encounter somebody knew. If I'm taking an uber ride and I
see a little opening, I'm like, so did you hear about the New
York Times article and the Pentagon UFO program, They're like no, And then
you know, we start up a conversation. Usually they'll change the subject,
but not always. So that's another thing. I remember Diana Pasulka said the
same thing for her. She says, now I can refer to that New
York Times article and it gives it credibility that we've never had before. So
that's a great thing. Yeah, exactly. And for those of us who
engage with the mainstream media, yeah, it's more tools than our toolbox to
say, well, the Pentagon looked into it and ticke it seriously, and
here's what the guy who ran that program said. Yes exactly. And I
know people are, you know, skeptical of the New York Times because the
way they've treated the subject over the years, but that's not the way they
treated it in this particular article. And that's that's what's important. Right now,
I'm not going to talk about, you know, the last couple of
decades, and they've done some Washington Posts too. They've done some They've done
some really good articles on UFOs and some not so great articles. But you
know, having the Washington Post, Political and New York Times do a three
pronged bam here it is. It was great. You know, it wasn't
just one outlet, right, So I want to get into some of the
stuff that you've written about lately. So of course there's a two thousand and
four Knimtz case, and recently at UFO Congress had quite a few of the
witnesses together and you wrote your latest his confirmation. Second witness also says he
saw longer tic tech video and was told sonar contact occurred. So let's talk
about that. Who said that and why is that significant? So Jason Turner,
who was on board, I believe the Princeton, he said that he
went in it was I'm not sure exactly where it was. I don't have
it memorized, but he said he saw sat down and watched it live.
He said he watched it live in one of the consoles, and it was
anywhere from seven to ten minutes, and the object was doing all kind of
all kinds of crazy maneuvers, and he said when you see the object start.
You know the video we've seen the TikTok where it starts and goes off
the screen. He said, that's the beginning of the video. Right after
that is where the good stuff happens. So he was the only person who
had said that until Gary Vorhis, who was also on board, he said
he saw the same video. So we have two guys saying they saw an
extended video of the tic tac, and Georgia said, or Jeremy has said
that there are more videos out there, but they haven't addressed that particular one,
because David Fravorite basically has not said anything like that. He's the pilot
of the F eighteen who encountered the tiktac. He said it was you know,
the video he saw was well, it was actually it wasn't. His
video was the guy who went up Chad Underwood two hours afterwards. But this
was the first time I had heard there was a longer video when Jason Turner
said that, So, I mean, two guys, it's not proof.
We need to actually see the video. One day and at UFO Mega COG
George Knapps said that he had heard there was a twenty minute video out there,
but I asked him afterwards if he was talking about the tic Tac case.
He said, no, it wasn't a Tiktac case. So I don't
know what case he's talking about, but I would love to see a twenty
minute video and that Paddel was great. The military panel was Kevin Day,
Jason Turner, Pjus, and Gary Voorhies And got to hang out with those
guys a little bit before and after, and you know, it's I can't
remember that. I think I was sitting next to somebody and they said,
this is historic. I've never been to a UFO conference where four military witnesses
are speaking about an event they experienced. So yeah, that was really something
I had never experienced, which is important. And I think we have to
remember to categorize things that we have people who are essentially sympathetic or who are
on board to help release information, and we have people that aren't on board
to release information. And I think it's important for people to categorize because of
course we have lou and we have his group. Harry Reid. Luckily he
didn't have to. He could have said, ah, yeah, I was
involved with that, but I don't want to talk about it. You know,
he doesn't have to do all these interviews. Luckily Harry reads on board
to help out. There's Lou, there's some of the big low staff.
A lot of them are completely quiet, you know, kind of keeping under
the radar. And then we have witnesses, and we're fortunate to have an
abundance of witnesses in this case who are helpful. But it's important to know
the DoD is still not on board. They are not really releasing or sharing
information. In fact, it seems apparent that they are releasing some information that
might not even be accurate. Time will tell. And then we have the
witnesses, but not the military. So when we hear about these videos,
it's kind of like, well, why can't we see them? We've seen
some of them, you know, we don't even really know that the behind
the scenes and how those three videos got out, but it's a monumental effort
and it's probably highly doubtful we'll see the other videos unless maybe you know,
Congress or something gets involved. Because they have been unwilling to share anything.
I've got a host of foyas out there, and you know, they have
not responded to any except to say, we're really bit the right well,
and I'm amazed that some of the people take and I'm not saying they're out
outright lying, like as Alessando has said, he just doesn't think one,
you know, the left hand is knows what the right hander is doing.
Right. You know, it's such a huge bureaucratic mess. But then George
Knapp at UFO Mega Con said, and I have this quote. It says,
you know, in the past with blue book quote, they they lied
and they're lying now when they said the program is over, it's not over.
It's still ongoing. In fact, there's more than one on end quote.
So it's like, yeah, he's using the L word there. I
don't know if they're lying, but I definitely don't take their word when they
say something, especially with the whole aviation aerospace. Oh yeah, it's aviation,
it's aviation, and then oh no, it's it's aerospace. They were
wrong. Sorry, that's a good point. There's one point where they were
wrong. But then again, if we go through history and we look at
cases at Stephenville, they were wrong. You know, they had to correct
themselves. They said that they said one thing and then they came out and
said, oh, sorry, we were wrong, and said another O'Hare was
similar, but that was more with the FAA saying no, we didn't receive
any reports, and then when the Chicago Tribune gets involved, oh yeah,
we did have reports. So I mean, unfortunately, with these pr groups,
lying is kind of common, and which is kind of interesting because you
know, one of the persons people who's been lied to the most by these
groups is John Greenwald, who's got, you know, done so many foyas,
although for some reason he doesn't think he's getting lied to in this case.
But we'll see. Because yeah, they say they didn't release those videos.
Many have seen the paperwork that shows that they have, although that hasn't
been released. But the New York Times said they verified it, you know
that they verified, Yes, indeed, the d ID and then Eric Davis's
he didn't contradict, but he got in some more details on another podcast where
he said Alisando worked with a specific group or a specific department within the Pentagon.
So maybe that group, you know, he got them clear through them
and nobody else knew that was going on. Maybe that happened, and they're
kind of feeling burned by that. I don't know, but yeah, I
think that is the thing that makes the most sense, because the first thing
they said was the proper channels weren't taken, and Lou was I guess they
were. We have the document that shows it. It's just this last step.
They said that we were supposed to see it the PR group before it
went out, but Lou argues that no, that is nowhere in our director
that we have to pass it through them, and so certainly there are some
concerns there that seemed to be shading things. So I guess time will tell
when it comes to that. But I mean it's kind of a very tiny
point because the point is the videos are out. The videos are out,
and you know, if you're right, if we're right in thinking that they're
feeling burned by this, I don't think there's a very good chance of more
videos come out, unless, like you said, Congress gets involved and they
say release it. So you know, I'm not I'm not expecting anything soon,
but hopefully there's more stuff out there that we're going to see on the
History Channel show. I hope. I know. I'm sure they all had
to sign NDA's for that show, and that's part of the reason they can't
talk about certain stuff. But another thing, you know, you know what
this is missing. We're missing a female. Nobody at TTSA has come out,
Nobody connected to a TIP, No females. That's why I think the
female pilot who was providing cover for Fravor. Her experience is written down in
one of the one of the reports. It's really detailed. If she ever
came out, I know she wants nothing to do with this from what I
heard, but if she ever came out, I think it really important to
have a female energy brought to this. What do you think? Oh,
I agree with that a gazillion gazillion billion, you know, I agree with
that wholeheartedly. In fact, it's funny you bring it up because I've been
thinking about it a lot lately. It's been a while since I've had a
woman on the show, and I feel really guilty about that. You know,
I grew up hanging out in a household where it was mostly women,
my sisters and my mom. You know, here the girls have gone off
to school, but you know, my girlfriend's girls I've lived with essentially,
and and so I'm used to being around women, and I don't feel comfortable
when it's just men to be honest, and that is something that is severely
lacking now. A lot of what I do. Luckily because Karen, my
girlfriend's into this stuff, who runs to congress, so she comes with me,
so, you know, which is helpful because then we get to know
also the wives. So I've gotten to know who the wives of some of
the Big Low people. We get along really well with Lou and his wife,
so and that's another interesting aspect, is to hear what they have to
say. And you know what's funny is that I've heard a lot from wives
and I've never talked about that because they do verify some of this stuff,
and they do have interesting stories that lend to the credibility of their husbands.
But I can't share them because they're always like, don't say anything because their
wives, you know, they don't want any attention. And they don't and
especially the husbands, you know, especially with Big Low having received so much
negativity and Lou that they don't want any negative attention to their spouses. So
it's always like, okay, you know, they're always don't tell anybody about
what she says. Don't talk about this. I can't you know, I
can't blame them. I love the little stories, but I can't blame them.
Who can blame me? After you see the way people come come at
you so hard. I mean people have come out Alizondo and DeLong and and
Melan anybody. It's just like they're so angry that this is going on.
It's like, and you know, we all speculated, Well, it's because
they've been doing I remember somebody said, why is DeLong? Why did he
get you for a Research of the Year. I've been doing this for a
long time. I should get that award. It's like, there's they're so
upset that somebody new is getting all the attention. I think that's part of
it. That's a big part of it. But yeah, I don't I
don't blame wives. That's that's really interesting. You bring up wives and their
stories, because yeah, that's that's confirmation unless you want to say, well,
the lives are lying. The wives are lying too, they're just protecting
their husbands, which I'm sure people would say. But yeah, I don't
blame them for one wanting to say out of the spotlight and not be quoted
on the record, well, that's why I've been really curious to speak to
them too, to say, you know, were you aware of this?
A lot of times I expect if there's any deception then them to kind of
roll their eyes or you know, some sort of like them getting frustrated,
or even if they just don't want to get into it saying I'd rather not
say anything. But that's not the case. Usually they are like I,
you know, here's my experience, and they have these very interesting stories that
that essentially do corroborate with what their husbands say, but more than that,
show that you know, they've had They've essentially have been involved, They've had
experiences that are interesting and interesting stories to share related to all of it.
So yeah, it's really interesting and it's too bad we don't have that female
aspect. And that's probably why, because these men's spouses aren't getting involved.
But like you said, who can blame them when they just get beat up
like crazy? What's been nice? Is that? And I want to know
if you have felt this since you've gotten involved, is that certainly people beat
me up like crazy. When I finally was like after the Wiki leagues,
I was like, oh my gosh, Tom's been telling me he's doing something
important. I've been skeptical, but he is. This is amazing. Nobody
has had a sit down meeting with people at this high of level to talk
about UFOs. That's why we gave him the award. You know, if
anybody else would have done that, they would have got the award. But
Tom did it, and that's when I was all in, like, wow,
he's doing something significant. We need to watch. And people were bashing
me, you know, they were really negative. But that seems to change
as time goes on, as you know, we get more and more great
information and more of what they've told us is being confirmed or at least what
Lou has been saying. Have you seen kind of a tide change? Have
people become more accepting of TTSA and everybody? You think? I've seen a
few people start to change their tune. I mean, there's still skeptical.
They're also upset that it's on History Channel, And as Bob Kiviat of the
Alien Autopsy Fame said at MEGA, we need to get this to CBS News.
I mean, yeah, of course, of course, I want it
to be on sixty minutes and an eight piece investigative you know series with all
news investigative journalists looking at that. But right now this is what we have.
We don't have that. We have History Channel, And yeah, I've
seen people open their minds saying Okay, I've listened. I listened to Alizonder.
I met him at the SEU conference, and I got to say,
yeah, he's really a nice guy and he really comes across as believable.
I mean, I'm still skeptical, but you know, meeting him in person
really changed my opinion on him. So I'm seeing that I personally, I
mean, I'm not as I'm not as visible as you, but on Twitter,
I haven't gotten too much negativity. People leave me alone for I don't
know why Facebook's a little different, but Twitter, I haven't really gotten a
lot of negative feedback. I mean, maybe that'll change as this ramps up,
but I've been really fortunate on that front. And hopefully hopefully in May,
like May, when the show airs Unidentified on History, that more people
will say, Okay, there's obviously there's obviously something going on, or I'm
open minded to see what TTSA has has in store and has Knap said,
even if they even if they don't do anything more than helping get those three
videos released or having a part in that. He goes even that if they
just went, if they disappeared after that, it would still be a great
accomplishment that helped change things for us. Mm hmm. You know. And
I think one of the reasons. And I think this helps me too,
because I get less bashing than a lot of people out there. And I
think it's just sticking to the facts and sticking to the information. Staying focused
is what you're doing. You're posting helpful information. You're not making, you
know, strong claims or saying You're sharing the information to let people determine on
their own. And I think that's why people appreciate it and are less likely
to kind of come after people like that. I agree. And and the
old in the old days, I wasn't like that. When I first started.
I was like, no, they're extraterrestrial, they're extraterrestrial. And had
I had a friend who was a big time skeptic, but and he would
always hammer me and and it forced me to really improve on my debating skills.
And over the years, I'm like, that really helped me out and
I appreciate having that person back then at the time, I didn't appreciate it,
but now I do. And it's like, now I'm like, I
will not say that. I'm like, yeah, they I don't think you
should rule out extraterrestrial, but we don't know what they are. There's so
many possibilities if you want to speculate. I'll speculate all day long about what
they could be. But I do not know. And when people come and
say, listen, they're extraterrestrial. They are they are, I'm like,
yeah, I can't say that. I'm sorry, you know, I just
I'll leave it alone and just say, you know, I'll disagree. I'll
agree to disagree right now. That's funny because I get the same thing and
people. It's funny because people in the field, you know, you experiences.
I'm sure they assume that that's how you feel. I mean, when
they're you're approaching they begin to talk to you, they assume that you're on
board, that you know this is all aliens and abduction and all of this,
right, and I have to tell them, well, I don't know
that for sure. I mean maybe maybe exactly. And somebody the other day
it was great, they go listen. The big problem I have with this
whole UFO stuff is they I don't think they can get here from there.
And I go, well, how do you know they're coming from anywhere?
How do you know they're not already? They haven't been here from tens of
thousands of years. They don't have to go anywhere. And he said,
right, M I guess that defeats my argument. I'm like, yeah,
I'm not saying that's the case, but you know, we don't know where
they're coming from at all. Yeah, at least I don't so on your
website, I guess what is the biggest deal right now? Like if you
were if if someone was like, hey, I heard you have a website.
You know, I got a few minutes later today to look at it.
What should look at? What would you tell someone? I'd say,
take a look at the note slash transcript of the of the Nimitz case with
those four witnesses. That was one of my favorite that I hadn't been to
a UFO conference in a while, and that was I had so much fun
at that conference meeting those guys and some of the transcripts I've done for me,
And also I have an a Lazar article up there. It's been a
couple of months with Eric Davis. That was one of my favorite articles to
write because I went back and looked at every argument that George and Jeremy had
made in favor of a czar, and I looked and and I went and
tried to see if there was any other counterpoint to that, and I found
some. And that that article is really good because Eric Davis is one anti
Lazar. He thinks he's full of it, and you'll see that in the
article. And another thing that I loved when you did this story too,
and that Davis got his word out there. And I've asked you know about
this because what's interesting about this is that these are all TTSA guys. Essentially,
Eric Davis is working with to the stars. They're all big low people,
all A tip people, but they disagree. George, of course,
is not in these organizations, but he's very friendly with all of the people
and knows them. How Whoever, you've got people who are in there,
some who believe in Lizar and some who don't. So you've got this interesting
dynamic where you know, this is a topic not all of them agree on,
and then you have Eric Davis coming out making some very strong statements.
And I've asked, I've said, you guys have to Haslazar ever come up,
and if he has, it's probably been some pretty interesting conversations. And
I got this look like, oh yeah, that's yeah. That's why I
asked Reid about Lazar because I was curious what his take was on it.
But like I said, he was neutral, open minded. But the thing
another thing, Eric Davis recently said that, you know, we keep hearing
Atip a tip a tip, and and I'm not I don't focus on the
negative or the contradictions. But Eric Davis said, yeah, a Tip wasn't
the name. It was just a nickname. And Harry Reid pulled out of
thin air when he wrote that letter to uh to Lynn William Lynn. So
it's like, oh, really see, and that's not necessarily true. And
then here's here's the deal. And and here's why I say this is because
I've been really focused on this, on clarifying that, and I just got
to interview lou recently on this to clarify. And it's kind of funny because
he feels like, you know, I can't speak for what everybody else says.
And he's even had a couple of mistakes when he's talked about this,
But here we go. I'll share this right now, and I don't think
I haven't shared this yet with my interview on him. So here's the details.
Essentially, what happened is there was ASAP. AWSAP was created ran by
Lou's predecessor. It was focused on all of the paranormal, as George and
Lou have told us. Over time, these religious factions started and others started
coming at them and like, you can't do this, you can't do this.
So there was a decision made early on to create a TIP And I
don't know who created the name. I didn't ask that, but maybe I'll
go back and see if I can find that out. But then this was
kind of a sub group to focus just on UFOs and just military cases,
and they thought that this would be more palatable to people out there, which
it was then, so over time this was kind of lose focus as time
went on. You know, the as AP part had to die essentially because
you know, these religious factions and stuff were not going to tolerate it.
But a TIP continued and then the name officially changed when Loud took over about
that time later, on. Uh, there's a timeline there, so then
that's when a tip officially took over as the name. So a tip was
a name out there. Maybe it was Harry Reid who came up with it,
but it wasn't what says, It wasn't officially technically official as a name
until Harry Reid wrote that document. So I could see why some people would
be shocked or that, you know, I could see why Eric Davis would
be shocked because he knew the program as os app and all of a sudden,
Harry Reid is calling a tip and that was the first time they really
just after Harry Reid did that, decided we're just sticking with a tip then,
And yeah, that's really interesting. I did not know that. It
makes a lot of sense, just you know, yeah, because there's a
lot of confusion. And I'm like, you know, Lou, these people
are confused. People are saying stuff different, and he's like, unfortunately,
I can't speak to what they knew or what they're saying, but that's what
happened. But here's my argument. This is why I don't think it's a
deception. And I'd like to hear your opinion, and sorry for going off
were supposed to be interviewed with you. That's new information that nobody knows about.
But Lou was an administrator, and I've made this argument everybody has their
role, the expert opinion, the official. Uh. The person we need
to talk to about the name of the program would be Lou, Harry Reid
and some aspects, but especially Lou and his predecessor. They were in the
DEA. They were or do O D. Lou was OSD. They were
the people who worked on the administrative end of things, so they would know.
Eric Davis helped put off. They are contractors, so they won't know.
In fact, I think it was Hell who said, or others have
said, I don't even know the name of the program when I'm writing papers
I'm contracted for with the government sometimes because I don't care, you know,
They're like, hey, we need you to write a paper on this or
do this work, and they do it. So that's why they would be
fuzzy about the naming of what was named when right and then and so and
with the New York Times, as puts it, I wasn't on as APP.
I never worked on as APP. I was, you know, brought
in, worked on a tip. It wasn't my program, so I wasn't
going to speak to something I didn't have the authority to speak on. I
had the authority to speak on a tip, So I spoke on a tip
and nobody knew about ASAPP at the time. And you'll notice there's a trend
that a lot of these top we didn't know about or lou didn't talk about.
He doesn't talk about until the existence of whatever it is is leaked,
and it's mostly George Nap getting these leaks, and he got a lot of
these from Washington, presumably from Harry Reid. We don't know, and he's
not sharing who leaked this information to him, but want it's leaked, like
ACEP is leaked. Okay, now Luke can talk about ACEP because it's been
leake it existed, right, Yeah, exactly. I don't see it as
any I don't see it as deception either. I mean, sometimes I hear
stuff I'm like, oh that that contradicts that, But it's like overall,
when you hear Eric Davis and he on the on the on the main most
important stuff about UFOs, and you know all the details surrounding that he's on
board you know, he doesn't. He doesn't contradict anything anybody else says.
And it's funny because the same thing happened with the remote viewing program exactly.
I remember at the time it happened. It's like, yeah, there was
a religious faction. And if you watch Third Eye Spies, Joe mcmonaicaal said,
some member of Congress came up to him and said, you're doing the
work of the devil, and then another one came up to him and said,
you're doing the work of God. He goes, I don't know which
one scared me more. Exactly. That's so funny that you brought that up,
because when I was talking to Lou, I've been telling him you need
to watch Third Eye Blind or the new documentary Third Eye Spies. Of course,
I've been writing about all this forever because Jim marge wrote a book,
I've been able to interview Joe McGonagall and everything. But that was a great
documentary because it kind of highlighted How's career through all of this, and that's
what I really liked about it because he's so bertinent right now, he's the
guy on the scene. But yes, How's been through all this before.
And it also demonstrates that how is not some kind of you know, spy
releasing, you know, manipulating us, because he has been working his whole
career on looking into kind of these fringe aciences and trying to promote their usage
and research his whole career. So this is a continuation of what he's been
doing for for many, many years. Yeah, people say, well,
these these CIA people, all of them have been involved in this for such
a long time. It's the same group of characters. I think Kiviat makes
that argument, like, yeah, because where is hell put off going to
go work and as a full time job and do investigations into psychic you know,
remote viewing. There's not a lot of places he can go. So
if our government's open to it and they're willing to pay him to do it,
of course he's going to do it. Right. The same same for
a lot of these people. It's like so of course you're going to see
the same names working in the same small government circles. There's not as far
as I know, there's not a lot of places you can go and work
full time looking into you know, psychic functioning. I mean, I know
some people have been able to do it like Dean Raid and he's done work
over the years. But you know, it's not a surprise to me at
all. That hell, you know, and I don'tunderstand how people have that.
He's another likable guy who's been you know, as an older guy who's
been around for a long time. He seems always open when he speaks about
it, and I don't understand. I don't understand that the real skepticism that
he's once again, like you said, he's some disinformation guy. I don't
you know that they're missing all of the facts. And that's why I recommend
people if you want to know more about how go watch Third Eye Spies,
which is what on Netflix or something like that. I think it's five bucks
or something. Uh, it's well well worth it because a remote viewing program
was extraordinary and it was fascinating and there are so many parallels to what we're
learning about os APP and a tip that it's just an extremely important, uh
set of information. And it's funny because there are a lot of people who
are open minded about UFOs there, Yes, this is legitimate, and then
I bring up remote viewing and like, yeah, that's there's nothing to remote
viewing. I'm sorry, I'm like, have you tried it? Because I've
taken classes. I took a class with Limby Cannon. I took a class
with Prudence Calabresi, who was controversial, but she taught remote viewing and I
did it and I got results. There were real basic results, but they
were results that were specific, little details that would pop up out of nowhere.
So I would tell people try it for yourself. I mean, the
Control of the Remote Viewing Manual is online that the military used. You can
learn it. It's not that difficult. Try it and impress yourself. You
know, don't be skeptical of something if you haven't tried it. And it's
like this this wall. Some people will accept ufoos, but they won't accept
remote viewing. And there's other topics the same thing. It's like, nope,
sorry, it's too far out there. But look at the evidence.
And I think the evidence for remote viewing is impressive. Yeah, yep,
really interesting stuff. We're essentially out of time, so let's see what you're
working on. You're working on transcribing the seu ae PC all of these acronyms
that the conference in Alabama, and I'm proud to have. You know,
I've been working with it to you from the beginning, and I think that
conference went excellent and it was so nice for the for Lou and how to
be there because they got to see that there are you know, serious people
in the UFO field who have been in the UFO field for decades, uh,
just kind of lurking out there and doing their work, keeping their nose
to the grindstone type of thing that don't get as much attention because they're working,
you know, and they don't have anything bombastic to say. They're working
on science and facts and figures. So that was great. But in this
transcript, I guess kind of a preview of maybe what people have looked to
look forward to. What are some of the big pieces from that transcript that
you think are significant? With Lou's transcript, yeah, I need to go
through and get it's so long. It's just so much. There's so much
information in there between between his transcript, the George Knapp transcript that I'll be
posting tonight, and the Harry Reid transcript. Those are those are just in
a read one that's not very long, but it's just there's just so much
information for people between Alexando and Red that were in there, they were in
the know, and it's just I can't get enough of, Like I said
of Alexando speaking about how the I know a lot of people don't care about
how the program started, what they analyzed, and what they investigated. But
I'm one of those people that wants I want to read up on everything,
and Alexando it's I think it was like an hour maybe an hour, No,
it's like over two hours, I think it was. So it's like
that if you want to if you want to learn about a tip and ASAP
and what went on and the history that's that read that transcript. That's probably
that'll be my most important transcript as far as preserving that transcript historically for people
to go back and look at that for people who know all have time to
watch the whole video and the read transcript will be up there probably today,
And I was just gonna keep doing what I'm doing, just trying to trying
to put everything together for the people who are really you know, I really
want to I really want to connect with mainstream, and a lot of mainstream
people are not going to be interested in these minute details, So I just
need to figure out a way to get I think the show will help because
that is perfect for mainstream New York Times article has helped. I just think
it's a matter of time and we just need to be patient. As Alezando
always preaches, It's like patients have patients, and I do have patients,
and I've been doing this for a long time, so I'm over the next
couple of years, I think more and more will come out, and hopefully
if Congress gets behind this, then people will finally wake up. Can you
imagine how the news is going to cover this if Congress actually has hearings on
this again, and we have pilots coming forward allowed to speak about it for
not fear of losing their flying license, to be able to fly. It's
like imagine all the pilots from the gimbal coming forward talking about yeah, you
know spear, you know with spirit, you know up close. Jeremy Jeremy
Corbel said at MEGAA they were wolves to these jets. In fact, David
Fraber said, there was a there was a near miss where it almost hit
one of our jets. So I think that would really get the attention to
the America the world. If that happens. I agree, super exciting,
and I want to say you're doing a really great service because when it comes
to the mainstream, quotes and sources are paramount, you know, and it's
important to tell them so and so said this, so and so said that.
Otherwise they're going to assume that you're speculating or assuming. But when you
quote the major players, especially a Harry Reid, but also a scientist,
you know, someone who worked in the Pentagon, that's what's really important.
And that's what's really important about what you're doing, because you'll notice when I
have a really great story like George Knapp, where there's just so rich full
of quotes that I need to pull, I'll do a transcript. I did
a transcript of Louis Elisanda, but I can't get to all of these,
and so what you're doing is so important, and then we can go find
exactly what they said and had the have the exact quote. So what you're
doing is just invaluable. And thank you so much for just getting out there.
Yeah, I appreciate that, Alejandro. And and hopefully one day I'll
learn how to type a little faster so it doesn't take me five days I
mean, al Zando's taking a long time, So yeah, I appreciate it.
I'll keep at it. Well, thank you so much for being on
the show. We'll definitely have you back again because this story is not going
away, and as you just mentioned, you know, it's just going to
get better and better as we learn more and more. And apparently we're going
to learn a lot more in the History Channel show, and so that's going
to be really exciting. What I'm getting exciting about, because we're working on
releasing some of the names for the International UFO Congress, is that our congress
is going to be after the show, and we're going to have you know,
some of the people involved with this at the congress. So we're going
to be able to share information and get more information about some of what we
learned in the History Channel show. So that's going to be really exciting,
and I hope you can come. Oh, I hope to be there.
I cannot wait for the show and for the Congress and for the next year
or two. It's going to be I'm excited, you know, I haven't
been this excited in a long time. And I appreciate you having me on
the show. And look forward to seeing what the future holds for us.
My pleasure. Thank you so much, thank you, thank you so much
for UFO Joe Mergia for being on the show. Check him out at ufojoe
dot net. That's ufo joe dot net. So he's doing some really good
stuff there. You know, as we talked about throughout the show, some
of the transcripts and stuff that he's doing, So he's definitely someone that you're
going to want to check out. You can also find him on Twitter.
Twitter is kind of where a lot of us are sharing some up to the
minute information, so you will find him on Twitter as ufo Joe eleven.
You can also search him by name Joe Mercia. You'll find Danny up there
and Mike Demante some of the people I've interviewed. So a lot of fun,
a lot of really really good stuff. So this is really exciting.
More and more news is coming out. I have a couple den of geek
articles with some of the background that we've discussed about TSA and a tip and
all of that stuff, and Tom DeLong essentially getting ready for this show to
come out. I just really want to make sure the public is as informed
about all of the details as possible, making sure we're credited is given too.
I really want people to know it. If it wasn't for Tom DeLong,
you know, none of this would have happened. This information wouldn't have
gotten out. So I have a story that's outlining how he made all this
come about. Even though I've written about that in the past, this is
kind of new and updated and just about that single topic. And then I
have another one that will be coming out essentially about how you know, a
tip was a lot more at the beginning, it was this US app and
it was this you know, paranormal investigation to begin with. So I have
an article coming out on that as well, and I'll keep on writing about
all of this. So lots of exciting projects happening, so check Joe out.
Otherwise, you know the UFO Congress. Like I said, there's more
and more information coming out about the Congress, so be sure to go to
Ufocongress dot com and you can check out more. I'll tell you right now
if you click around there, you're going to find some new information. Even
though we haven't really launched it all yet, we will be in the next
few days. And then also you know, follow the social media. I
go to UFO Congress on Twitter and Facebook, and then you can also on
the front page of ufocongress dot com join the email list. And right now
I think I told you guys this last time. We're having problems with the
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email of a larger company, so there's some problems there. So really,
right now, the UFO Congress is the best email list to get onto,
so you could get your email newsletter on everything that we're up to, because
I do post that stuff at the UFO Congress website as well and put that
in the email. So if you want to keep up to speed, go
ahead and do that. So we'll be letting you know about a lot more
that way coming up here soon. Otherwise, do please go to my Patreon.
You'll see a link down below in the show notes, or you can
also just go to Patreon and click look for Alejandro Rojas and you'll find me
Patreon spelled p A t r e O N. So I hope you'll consider
going on and becoming a member for a buck, you know, only a
dollar a month, and I'll be sure to get you lots of exclusive,
great information and especially allow you to ask questions. So send me some questions
that I can ask the guests. That's kind of cool service, right.
Let's helps some manage so I'm not getting these questions from all over the place.
But yeah, that way we can interact more, become more of a
community, and you could help me out so I could keep doing this stuff
because I would like to keep doing it if possible, you know. Anyway,
thank you all for listening. I want to really I think some of
the people I usually think. I want to thank Caleb Hanks for the opening
and close music. I want to thank Systematics for the bumper music. Of
course, I want to thank you the listener for being here. Once again,
we have another great show, physicist doctor Eric Davis. This is going
to be really really good stuff coming up next week, so be sure to
be here otherwise, until next time, audio smooth, chuchos, youre motionless.