1 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:21,879 We're back with another edition of The Federalist Radio Hour. I'm Emily Jashinsky, 2 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:24,839 culture editor here at the Federalist. As always, you can email the show 3 00:00:24,879 --> 00:00:29,519 at radio at the Federalist dot com, follow us on x at FDR LST. 4 00:00:29,719 --> 00:00:33,240 Make sure to subscribe wherever you download your podcasts, and of course to 5 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:37,679 the premium version of our website as well. I am joined today for a 6 00:00:37,719 --> 00:00:43,320 special edition of The Federalist Radio Hour with Christopher Bedford of the Common Sense Society. 7 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:48,719 We are about to interview the vike Ramaswami presidential candidate. Chris. Thank 8 00:00:48,719 --> 00:00:51,560 you so much for joining the program. Happy to be here, of course, 9 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:54,200 and for your help and setting up this interview. Oh it's a blast, 10 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:56,280 a pleasure. Yeah, and you know, we have a lot of 11 00:00:56,359 --> 00:01:00,960 questions for the vake Ramaswamy. We've also had Marion Williamson on the program. 12 00:01:02,079 --> 00:01:07,719 I think you know, once you start interviewing presidential candidates, it becomes from 13 00:01:07,719 --> 00:01:11,159 the perspective of journalists and media you hear from all the campaigns. Basically, 14 00:01:11,159 --> 00:01:15,120 it's sort of like a Pandora's box. And you know a lot of candidates, 15 00:01:15,159 --> 00:01:18,879 Vivak is one of them who's sort of saturated in media and conservative media 16 00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:22,359 in the podcast sphere. But I think actually, Chris, based on the 17 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:26,319 questions we have prepared for this, we're hoping to take, you know, 18 00:01:26,359 --> 00:01:30,840 a sort of different perspective to the interview and get his thoughts on some things 19 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:34,680 that you know, might not be completely news of the day, but are 20 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:40,200 absolutely news of the year, things like artificial intelligence, things like the rise 21 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:42,200 of India. So hopefully that comes through in the conversation. Yeah, you 22 00:01:42,239 --> 00:01:47,640 know, I usually don't like to interview politicians or ambassadors or other people who 23 00:01:47,719 --> 00:01:49,640 just have to watch every single thing they thing they say and are generally and 24 00:01:49,719 --> 00:01:55,159 authentic. I remember back in the day going to interview the Irish Ambassador for 25 00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:57,640 a video Betty Johnson and I were making for Saint Patrick's take, and he 26 00:01:57,680 --> 00:02:00,840 wanted to ask this Kyle all these questions, thinking he was going to be 27 00:02:00,879 --> 00:02:04,959 fun. Now, the Irish Ambassador is not an appointment, that's a career 28 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:06,959 person. So I was like, here's what he's going to tell you he 29 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:09,919 does for Saint Patrick's day, Ireland's a vibrant tech corridor, and it was 30 00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:13,680 exactly what he said, and I was like, why are we here, 31 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:16,120 Let's pet it's going to talk to interesting people. But that's actually why I 32 00:02:16,159 --> 00:02:20,840 wanted to talk to Vivic because he's interested. He's saying things on the debate 33 00:02:20,879 --> 00:02:24,400 stage which stand out. You know, common sense society is, we're all 34 00:02:24,479 --> 00:02:28,879 over the country, all over the world. Uh, and there's we've noticed 35 00:02:28,879 --> 00:02:30,639 that there's a lot of differences in or when you get when you when you 36 00:02:30,719 --> 00:02:35,120 leave the United States, that these things are not monolithic. And we've got 37 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:38,080 folks in Scotland, folks in England, and guess what, they don't always 38 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:40,039 agree on things. It would be easy for an American to be like, 39 00:02:40,039 --> 00:02:43,360 oh, they're basically the same or not. So that's just some of the 40 00:02:43,439 --> 00:02:46,560 questions I wanted to ask. You know, there's the American people might look 41 00:02:46,599 --> 00:02:49,439 at this and say, there's two Indian people running for president and the GOP. 42 00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:52,639 That's interesting, But yeah, they come from very different backgrounds, different 43 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:57,759 their parents have different religions, different heritages, different things that inform those backgrounds, 44 00:02:57,759 --> 00:03:00,560 and people don't really want to ask about that. And I'm interested in 45 00:03:00,599 --> 00:03:04,280 talking about that, just like you'd ask a Catholic candidate during the troubles what 46 00:03:04,319 --> 00:03:07,560 they think about what's going on in Ireland. Now. And also, just 47 00:03:07,599 --> 00:03:10,280 like you said, Ai, you know he's not a career politician. Not 48 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:15,280 some career politicians of extremely interesting thoughts on AI. But I'm really interesting, 49 00:03:15,319 --> 00:03:17,680 you know what it is. If they really know what it is exactly, 50 00:03:17,759 --> 00:03:23,120 they've seen terminator, that's not kind of like a good primer. But I'm 51 00:03:23,159 --> 00:03:27,719 interested in his thoughts on technology, and so I'm looking forward to the conversation. 52 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:30,360 Yeah, no, I think that's important. And again that's the same 53 00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:34,439 reason why I was so interested to have Mary Anne on the show some months 54 00:03:34,479 --> 00:03:37,400 ago, because he's not a standard politician, not a standard politician. And 55 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:38,759 that's the thing about podcasts, by the way, that you bring candles. 56 00:03:38,759 --> 00:03:43,560 If you're going to come on the podcast, I need you to be game 57 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:46,919 for doing a podcast. This is not for talking points. You have to 58 00:03:46,159 --> 00:03:52,280 expand and you have to be ready to talk more elaborate. It's not cable 59 00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:54,039 news. If I ask you about Ukraine, you better not respond about the 60 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:58,120 woke military. I want to talk about you cis. We're here to talk 61 00:03:58,159 --> 00:04:00,759 about that and respond about that. But you have to be okay when you 62 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:03,960 get interrupted, Yeah, exactly, and then be down for it. And 63 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:09,280 I think it'll be good all right, well, stay tuned. We'll be 64 00:04:09,319 --> 00:04:14,759 back with vig Ramis Swami right after this. Sir, thank you so much 65 00:04:14,759 --> 00:04:16,920 for joining us. We really appreciate you coming on the show. Great to 66 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:19,680 be on. How you doing, We're good. I wanted to start out 67 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:24,240 because there's a debate this week, and one thing I think Chris and I 68 00:04:24,319 --> 00:04:29,959 both agreed on throughout these campaigns is that desantiss Ron DeSantis's approach to Donald Trump 69 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:34,680 has been strange and yours has always seemed to make a lot more sense from 70 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:40,519 a purely strategic and tactical standpoint. I imagine you believe what you're saying as 71 00:04:40,519 --> 00:04:43,639 it pertains to the former president. But I wanted to ask this is maybe 72 00:04:43,639 --> 00:04:46,680 a strange hypothetical, but as somebody who's taken the approach to Donald Trump that 73 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:51,079 has resonated much more with Trump supporters than I think what Ron DeSantis, Governor 74 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:56,040 DeSantis has done, do you think that's been something that's blocked his path to 75 00:04:56,120 --> 00:05:00,680 connecting with voters, that has maybe created stagnancy as it pertains to his ability 76 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:05,000 to relate to voters. Just that you know, if you're attacking Donald Trump 77 00:05:05,639 --> 00:05:10,759 from you know, some of the same positions that the left is attacking Donald 78 00:05:10,759 --> 00:05:13,720 Trump. Is that a have you found as you're out there talking to people 79 00:05:13,759 --> 00:05:16,199 in Iowa and South Carolina, that's a real block to be able to connect 80 00:05:16,199 --> 00:05:20,480 with those people. Look, I think that there's a lot of factors there, 81 00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:24,439 and I'm not a political analyst. I'm a candidate who's offering my vision 82 00:05:24,439 --> 00:05:29,120 for the country. But I do feel like if you are constrained, I 83 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:31,839 think there's something else going on, which is that much of the donor class 84 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:36,360 in the Republican Party and the establishment and the money that funds it is fundamentally 85 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:41,920 hostile to Donald Trump. And so as a candidate, to sort of please 86 00:05:42,199 --> 00:05:46,560 your provider of mother's milk, right, if that's the mother's milk of politics 87 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:50,720 is green pieces of paper funding super PACs and otherwise, and they want you 88 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:55,680 to be bashing Trump, you have no choice but to do it. So 89 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:58,879 I look at it a little bit less as like a decision that your question 90 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:01,600 presumes that was on the Santis is to make, whereas I don't think it 91 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:05,160 was his decision to make. I think it was the decision of the people 92 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:10,199 who fund him, and you know, he who pays the piper calls the 93 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:13,680 shop, and in Ron DeSantis's case, that's a bunch of mega donors that 94 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:16,120 have funded the super PACs that are running this campaign. And you've seen the 95 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:20,920 impact of these donors on maybe Desantus's foreign policy shifts, coming out of Strong 96 00:06:20,959 --> 00:06:25,959 initially skeptical of Ukraine and then pushing back on that pretty quickly. But are 97 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:29,639 these donors, I assume they're learning communication with you, these operatives, and 98 00:06:29,639 --> 00:06:31,680 then lead up to this debate where you're all supposed to go out and fight 99 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:34,879 each other again, has there been a behind the scenes, behind the scenes 100 00:06:34,879 --> 00:06:39,800 effort by some of these donors and operatives to try and get you to consolidate 101 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:42,879 either behind Haley, behind you, or behind the Santas, or to try 102 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:46,759 to form some kind of their their dream anti Trump pack like Pete and Amy 103 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:49,959 against Bernie in twenty twenty. Well, what I would say is they know 104 00:06:50,079 --> 00:06:54,879 that I'm not controllable because I'm not dependent on that mother's milk. Now, 105 00:06:54,879 --> 00:06:58,600 the flip side of this is this has required my family and I just spend 106 00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:01,040 tens of millions of dollars of our hard earned money we will have by the 107 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:06,160 end of this campaign. We've already spent tens of millions of dollars, and 108 00:07:06,199 --> 00:07:10,199 I think that that's the sacrifice that we make, not to be somebody else's 109 00:07:10,199 --> 00:07:13,680 circus monkey. But you know, in many cases, I know these megadnor 110 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:16,079 groups back in my prior life, I was courted to be parts of many 111 00:07:16,079 --> 00:07:20,480 of them. I was briefly a donor in politics before I got disillusioned by 112 00:07:20,519 --> 00:07:24,920 that and believed that it was a broken system and a broken game, and 113 00:07:24,959 --> 00:07:29,120 eventually that was one of the many paths that led to my candidacy. But 114 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:32,720 the fact of the matter is I've made it crystal clear that I am not 115 00:07:33,519 --> 00:07:38,720 really a pawn that's available to be played on the chess board. And so 116 00:07:39,079 --> 00:07:42,439 with that clarity, that's just cut off donor funds. I mean, rot 117 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:46,639 Ron McDaniel after the last debates, that I won't get a scent of funding 118 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:50,319 from the RNC is what she reportedly said. Well, you know, it 119 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:54,800 almost proves my point about the corruption of the institutions, even like the RNC, 120 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:59,240 individuals like are treating it like it's their money for you know, punishing 121 00:07:59,279 --> 00:08:03,759 a candidate who's about the failure record of the RNC. But that's almost proving 122 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:05,879 my point that that's why I'm the only candidate is able to say it, 123 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:09,480 and so it's a little bit circular. But I do think that there is 124 00:08:09,519 --> 00:08:13,319 a active effort amongst the donor establishment. You could see in the closed door 125 00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:20,000 meetings they're hosting where the invite representatives from the Kaylee and DeSantis and when Tim 126 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:24,279 Scott was in the Tim Scott camp to try to consolidate support. And I 127 00:08:24,279 --> 00:08:26,519 would say overthrowing Trump, that's the way they look at it, down to 128 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:31,600 the words they would use. Overthrowing Trump, I think is the top objective 129 00:08:31,639 --> 00:08:37,639 of much of that old school GOP donor establishment, And you know, I 130 00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:39,879 think that that's not really the right way to look at a race where we 131 00:08:39,879 --> 00:08:45,039 should be asking who's the best candidate to lead this country forward. I'm in 132 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:48,639 this race because I believe that's me and I think there's two America First candidates 133 00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:52,879 in this race, that's Donald Trump and myself. One comes from a prior 134 00:08:52,919 --> 00:08:56,799 generation with experience, another one comes with fresh legs and an energy to reach 135 00:08:56,840 --> 00:09:01,080 the next generation, and that's me. And think we're going to be successful. 136 00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:03,440 But that's the way I'm looking at this. There's been a stunning lack 137 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:09,240 of interest in this cycle in artificial intellig intelligence, you know, just across 138 00:09:09,279 --> 00:09:13,799 the board. Obviously such an important issue, and it's one that you're more 139 00:09:13,799 --> 00:09:18,039 familiar with than some of the other candidates. And I just wanted to ask 140 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:24,480 what you make of Sam Altman's leadership of open AI, because the Biden administration 141 00:09:24,639 --> 00:09:28,039 has sort of staked out one highly regulatory position, and then on the other 142 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:33,399 hand you have Mark Andresen, you have Sam Altman, people are sort of 143 00:09:33,039 --> 00:09:39,559 newly I shouldn't say new, but are newly embracing this kind of techno optimism 144 00:09:39,759 --> 00:09:43,799 in a boulder and more clear cut way, who are very opposed to regulation, 145 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:48,480 although there are also you can make a great argument a lot of conservatives 146 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:50,279 that have seen what's happened with big tech and say there has to be some 147 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:54,720 regulation. So as we're looking at just the last couple of weeks and all 148 00:09:54,759 --> 00:09:58,279 of the chaos over at open AI, arguably the most powerful company in all 149 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:03,200 of AI, what do you make of everything that's transpired since the ouster of 150 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:09,919 Sam Altman and then the return of Sam Altman. Yeah, so I think 151 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:13,360 that it is stunning in some ways that a topic that I actually hear a 152 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:18,879 lot from on voters. It's amazing. Even in grassroots and rural areas of 153 00:10:18,919 --> 00:10:22,960 Iowa, you're going to get I get questions on AI much more so. 154 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:26,200 And by the way, certain other topics too, central bank, digital currencies, 155 00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:31,840 the future of decentralized money, and otherwise that do relate to our future. 156 00:10:31,879 --> 00:10:33,679 AI is an important part of the future as well, that we don't 157 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:39,399 hear in any of the Republican debates or otherwise so far, and so that 158 00:10:39,519 --> 00:10:43,399 is a big that is a big reality. That being said, here's my 159 00:10:43,519 --> 00:10:46,759 view on the future of AI policy. I think the techno optimists, I 160 00:10:46,799 --> 00:10:52,000 think, in some ways make a mistake of trying to believe that we can 161 00:10:52,039 --> 00:10:56,759 solve normative problems with technical solutions. And I think many of the problems that 162 00:10:56,799 --> 00:11:03,240 our country faces today are absolutely questions of values, a divide on what is 163 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:07,080 the values that unite this country versus not that no amount of technology is going 164 00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:09,799 to affect And I think it's a techno optimism ends up being a convenient, 165 00:11:11,519 --> 00:11:15,879 self aggrandizing argument to advance your own ends. All that being said, I 166 00:11:15,919 --> 00:11:20,480 also don't believe we should adopt any bands that China is not also willing to 167 00:11:20,519 --> 00:11:22,879 adopt. We saw how that worked out for gain a function research, it 168 00:11:24,039 --> 00:11:28,320 ricochet's back, and in some ways we would be worst off if China were 169 00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:31,840 advancing in AI development while we banned it in the US. I think the 170 00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:39,279 right framework is strict liability for companies, at least as a first step. 171 00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:41,399 This is an easy next step to take, which is to say that if 172 00:11:41,399 --> 00:11:46,519 you're a chemicals company, you can't dump your chemicals in somebody else's river, 173 00:11:46,159 --> 00:11:50,600 or you are liable for that. That's how it already works. We should 174 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:56,360 say the same thing when it comes to dumping effectively in somebody else's river with 175 00:11:56,480 --> 00:12:01,000 the product of an algorithm or a protocol that you develop. Companies need to 176 00:12:01,039 --> 00:12:05,320 know xanty right now that they're going to be held liable for the adverse consequences 177 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:09,399 of that, and that forces companies to internalize the risks now in contrast to 178 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:11,679 what they're doing, which are setting up for an arms race where they can 179 00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:16,320 externalize the risks and the costs to everybody else around them. Yeah, that 180 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:22,480 seems like the danger here is the acceleration required to compete with China and the 181 00:12:22,519 --> 00:12:24,360 AI race could push the end of states past the point of no return. 182 00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:30,799 Questions about the ethics of autonomous AI vehicles with no human input, for example, 183 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:35,320 in the military. I mean, and then even with talking about liability 184 00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:39,039 here, which I think would be pretty crucial to this new legal regime. 185 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:45,440 Who is the liable party the person who's operating the vehicle that they're in the 186 00:12:45,519 --> 00:12:46,799 vehicle at the time, Is it the company that made it? Is that 187 00:12:46,879 --> 00:12:52,639 the programmer who did it? Is it? How does that get sorted out 188 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:56,759 in a way that still allows Jeni States to compete with a country like China 189 00:12:56,799 --> 00:13:01,440 that doesn't have put the same put the same way on human life or human 190 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:05,240 liberty. I just wants to compete and just wants to push forward the ethics 191 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:09,440 be damned. Well, look, I think that one of the great ethical 192 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:13,559 questions that comes up with the future of AI has nothing to do with the 193 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:18,679 AI, but has to do with human beings responsiveness to the AI. I'll 194 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:22,840 give you a funny analogy. Is I'm a tennis fan, okay, And 195 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:26,919 actually my first job when I was a high schooler was as a ball boy 196 00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:31,399 at tennis tournaments, and then I eventually one season got an upgrade to be 197 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:35,519 a line judge, a human line judge making line calls those line calls are 198 00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:39,159 not made by human beings anymore. They're made by AI. But in the 199 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:45,000 first generation of AI that was developed to do this, what you saw was 200 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:46,600 you could just see it with your eyes was an obviously bad call. You 201 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:52,279 could see it on a video replay. And yet something interesting happened. The 202 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:56,240 players who used to argue incessantly with the line judges just stopped arguing with the 203 00:13:56,240 --> 00:14:00,159 call because it was the AI. Right. So you sort of go to 204 00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:03,080 try going to chat GPT on a given day and type in how do you 205 00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:09,000 address climate change or how do you address racial injustice? See what it spits 206 00:14:09,039 --> 00:14:15,639 out, and I think that that's going to be something that really looks a 207 00:14:15,639 --> 00:14:20,639 lot more like converting degrees Celsius to degrees Fahrenheim as a technical question, when 208 00:14:20,679 --> 00:14:24,960 in fact it's a values question. And so that I think is the ultimate 209 00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:28,039 risk of AI is not when it comes to the ethical issues, are the 210 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:33,559 response of human beings to the AI rather than the other way around. And 211 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:35,480 this gets, you know, maybe a little bit philosophical and abstract, but 212 00:14:37,159 --> 00:14:39,519 one of the best antidotes to the effect of AI and the risks of AI 213 00:14:39,559 --> 00:14:45,360 in that way isn't any policy but is the revival of faith in our country 214 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:48,480 actually, And you know, you believe you have a whole the size of 215 00:14:48,519 --> 00:14:52,440 God in your heart. The expression goes God doesn't feel it, something else 216 00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:56,240 will fill it instead. And that's what Blaze Pascal said years ago. And 217 00:14:56,279 --> 00:15:00,840 he's a scientist. And I think that you going to bend the need of 218 00:15:00,879 --> 00:15:03,399 something. And I do think that that vacuum in our hearts right now, 219 00:15:05,279 --> 00:15:09,000 vacuum of purpose and meaning and identity, that's that's the moment we live in 220 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:11,639 right now in the United States of America. The rise of AI against that 221 00:15:11,759 --> 00:15:18,440 backdrop is I think far more concerning than against the backdrop of a society that 222 00:15:18,559 --> 00:15:22,840 does have its grounded identity and sense of purpose and meaning. Those are two 223 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:26,279 different circumstances. And so I don't know if any of what I just said 224 00:15:26,279 --> 00:15:28,759 it makes remote sense to you all or not, but you know, that's 225 00:15:28,799 --> 00:15:30,919 kind of how I think about it. No, absolutely, And I mean 226 00:15:30,919 --> 00:15:33,600 I think there's a real need for that on the right sort of a moral 227 00:15:33,639 --> 00:15:41,559 clarity and a consensus on some important points of morale clarity. Hey, y'all, 228 00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:43,799 this is Sarah from the Sarah Carter Show. Thanks for listening to the 229 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:48,919 Federalist Radio Hour. We could all benefit from heart healthy energy, especially in 230 00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:52,480 this busy time of the year. One of the best ways to do that 231 00:15:52,559 --> 00:15:56,159 is to support your blood pressure and circulation with super Beats heart choes paired with 232 00:15:56,159 --> 00:16:00,840 a healthy lifestyle. The antioxidants and Superbeats are clinically shown to be nearly two 233 00:16:00,879 --> 00:16:06,440 times more effective at promoting normal blood pressure than healthy lifestyle alone. And let 234 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:10,039 me tell you something. 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And you've 247 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:07,720 talked a lot and with a lot of honesty about some of those shifts, 248 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:12,000 And I guess I'm wondering what it's been like on the campaign trail to you 249 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:17,119 know, one of the criticisms you've gotten in the debates is being maybe what 250 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:22,079 people would describe as performative or over the top or theatrical or something like that. 251 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:26,319 How do you get people, you know, as somebody who's kind of 252 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:30,720 had a somewhat of a journey into Republican politics, how do you get people 253 00:17:30,799 --> 00:17:37,359 to fundamentally who are so sick of the political establishment, who are so distrustful 254 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:41,000 of all of our major institutions, including the business world that you've come from, 255 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:45,640 in the political world that you're occupying now, how do you get people 256 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:49,160 to trust you given all of that. Well, look, I think that 257 00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:56,240 doing that via thirty minute segments with a buzzer at the end is not the 258 00:17:56,319 --> 00:17:59,799 right modality, I've probably done more possible. We don't have a buzz anything. 259 00:18:00,519 --> 00:18:03,359 No, I know exactly exactly one. No, I wasn't referring to 260 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:07,920 you. I'm talking about the debate, of course, but standard cable television 261 00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:12,240 isn't much better. But I have probably in more podcasts than all presidential candidates 262 00:18:12,319 --> 00:18:18,119 in US history combined. And so that's a way of reaching people through with 263 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:22,119 a different format. I've written three books, and they're not usual candidate books, 264 00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:25,559 but you know, three hundred million Americans aren't reading them, and it 265 00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:29,079 provides at least a lens into my thinking and who I am. And so 266 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:33,599 my general approach is, I think the more strategic you are about how to 267 00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:37,119 try to build trust, the less likely you are to do it. And 268 00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:42,000 so my view is, we are going to speak the unvarnished truths, hard 269 00:18:42,039 --> 00:18:47,400 truths that other candidates are unwilling to speak about, let alone even touch. 270 00:18:48,279 --> 00:18:51,599 Do that consistently without apology, and people will accuse you of everything along the 271 00:18:51,599 --> 00:18:56,200 way, being performative, being disingenuous, you know, on the on the 272 00:18:56,440 --> 00:18:59,319 five percent of questions, I tell people, yeah, I wrote my first 273 00:18:59,319 --> 00:19:03,759 book working several years ago, and I highly recommend reading it, and I 274 00:19:03,799 --> 00:19:07,000 agree with ninety five percent of what's in there, and that's the truth, 275 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:11,480 because I'm a human being that is honest and publicly shares where I'm at. 276 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:17,680 And five percent of the things that I thought five years ago have evolved as 277 00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:21,839 a consequence of thinking about them more deeply, and my hope is that people 278 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:26,680 reward that honesty over time. It's a long sale cycle, but I do 279 00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:30,519 think that by the time voting begins in Iowa and I'm spending an immense amount 280 00:19:30,519 --> 00:19:34,119 of time on the ground, the best format of all is meeting people in 281 00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:40,119 a room without social media algorithms or TV screens in between distorting what you say. 282 00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:44,559 That's where we're building trust and so are you. I'll do as much 283 00:19:44,559 --> 00:19:48,720 of that as possible. So polls I think are way off. Okay, 284 00:19:48,799 --> 00:19:51,359 I know that, Yeah, the Iowa polls are way off because many of 285 00:19:51,359 --> 00:19:56,640 the people who are pulled they're all just traditional, historical caucus goers. Many 286 00:19:56,599 --> 00:20:03,079 of the people were bringing in absolutely are not and they're supporters who are absolutely 287 00:20:03,079 --> 00:20:07,160 pro American and share our values but haven't shown up in a caucus in recent 288 00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:10,279 years. Some of them are young, a lot of them are Young. 289 00:20:10,319 --> 00:20:12,400 A lot of them, you know, may have supported candidates like Ron Paul 290 00:20:12,519 --> 00:20:15,680 or others in the past, and others have supported Trump in a general election 291 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:22,599 but didn't participate in the party apparatus driven caucus process. And so I think 292 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:26,960 we're on track to deliver a major surprise at the iocaucus, actually, and 293 00:20:26,039 --> 00:20:30,799 so I'm very confident of that much. And then that's going to think change 294 00:20:30,799 --> 00:20:33,680 the dynamics of this race once we do. You know, one of the 295 00:20:33,759 --> 00:20:37,880 dangers of going on all these podcasts and talking as much as Canada has to 296 00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:40,559 talk or we get to to talk here, is and sometimes you say things 297 00:20:40,559 --> 00:20:42,759 that you regret. So I want to ask you about a quote from a 298 00:20:42,799 --> 00:20:48,519 twenty twenty Rockefeller Capital Management podcast where you talked about whether or not the American 299 00:20:48,519 --> 00:20:52,279 people could tolerate a national system in which certain people on the basis of a 300 00:20:52,319 --> 00:20:56,720 biomarker are segregated, and the idea you said that you leaned toward the idea 301 00:20:56,759 --> 00:21:00,160 that if we could identify anybodies for COVID and people during lockdowns, maybe that 302 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:03,440 ten or twenty percent of the population would be allowed to go back to business. 303 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:07,519 For those who didn't have it wouldn't and that being better than the status 304 00:21:07,599 --> 00:21:11,039 quo. It seems different from where you're coming now. So I'm wondering if 305 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:14,559 it is actually in line with where you're coming now, or if you're thinking 306 00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:17,519 from what it's very different from where I am now. But you got to 307 00:21:17,559 --> 00:21:21,480 know when that was right. If somebody's talking about that today, they're crazy 308 00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:25,119 and should come nowhere near the White House. But in April twenty twenty, 309 00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:30,839 April twenty twenty, when we were in the second month of the pandemic, 310 00:21:30,079 --> 00:21:36,519 every single state, this entire country was absolutely locked down. And so I 311 00:21:36,559 --> 00:21:40,400 was a CEO back then, and I'm asked about what's a reasonable way to 312 00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:44,359 reopen this economy, and I said, one of the things that immediately kind 313 00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:48,599 of makes sense to do is if you have natural immunity, which the government 314 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:51,920 narrative was rejecting at the time and otherwise, but if you have natural immunity, 315 00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:55,720 at least let those people back because they don't deserve to be locked down 316 00:21:56,319 --> 00:21:57,799 at a moment where the entire country is locked down. Of course, the 317 00:21:57,799 --> 00:22:02,160 lockdowns were disastrous. I was against it at the time, and we definitely 318 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:04,599 know that now. But now three years later, after everybody. It's the 319 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:07,559 easy thing to say, is like, we're against lockdown, when every Republican 320 00:22:08,039 --> 00:22:11,599 governor in this country had locked down their states. I mean even Florida for 321 00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:15,599 that matter, was lockdown in April of twenty twenty. For me to say 322 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:18,400 that, actually, here's just a reasonable quick thing to do is get people 323 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:22,799 with natural immunity back, that was not a crazy thing to say. People 324 00:22:22,839 --> 00:22:27,200 were saying a lot more cringeworthy things in April twenty twenty, definitely a panic, 325 00:22:27,519 --> 00:22:30,880 like it was a problem to the panic. And so the fact is 326 00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:34,079 people were back then were against even if you had natural immunity, which the 327 00:22:34,079 --> 00:22:38,039 government narrative has rejected for a long time, that you should be able to 328 00:22:38,039 --> 00:22:41,920 get at least get out of the lockdowns. That made sense against the backdrop 329 00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:45,119 of lockdowns. I, like other Republicans, I never locked down the state, 330 00:22:45,319 --> 00:22:48,119 right. I was just providing paths for reasonably getting back to normal life 331 00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:52,880 as quickly as possible, and so versus one hundred percent lockdown, versus at 332 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:56,720 least letting people in natural immunity back. I don't think in April twenty twenty 333 00:22:56,839 --> 00:23:00,640 that was an unreasonable thing to say, And so I'm not going to apologize 334 00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:06,000 for saying that, but that's obviously not where any thinking person is today. 335 00:23:06,039 --> 00:23:08,759 The lockdowns themselves are disastrous. It should have never happened. It's just that 336 00:23:08,799 --> 00:23:12,519 I was in a position, as a private citizen at that time to be 337 00:23:12,559 --> 00:23:15,519 able to do much of anything about it. I traveled the country for the 338 00:23:15,559 --> 00:23:21,680 Federalists before I came over to Common Sense Society in early May, and it 339 00:23:21,759 --> 00:23:26,039 was wild to see the experiments going on, because everyone seems to feel like 340 00:23:26,079 --> 00:23:29,039 wherever they were, that the whole country was going through exactly what they were 341 00:23:29,079 --> 00:23:33,000 going through, and that I found it was wildly different. I go from 342 00:23:33,079 --> 00:23:34,960 Washington, d C. Where everything is shut down, included in the airport. 343 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:37,960 I land in Chicago where you can't open a bar, but the airport 344 00:23:38,039 --> 00:23:44,039 bars were wide open. You go to I landed in Santa Cruz and the 345 00:23:44,079 --> 00:23:47,440 beaches were taped off and the businesses were shut down. We drove out of 346 00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:49,680 a Nevada eight dinner out. By the time we got to South Dakota, 347 00:23:49,759 --> 00:23:55,119 people were giving us hugs and everything was normal. But everyone seemed to think 348 00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:59,200 everyone else was going We're all in this together. But if you actually drove 349 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:02,599 across the country, there was no lines, the natural monuments were empty. 350 00:24:02,599 --> 00:24:06,400 It was kind of cool. But the second thing is you saw how disparate 351 00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:11,279 the reactions were, even sometimes from county to county. Mm hm. And 352 00:24:11,319 --> 00:24:14,240 I think that that's a learned seat of learnings. I mean, I think 353 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:17,720 that the counties that were absolutely held open, or the countries that were open 354 00:24:18,079 --> 00:24:19,799 the schools that we didn't lock down, are the areas where we didn't lock 355 00:24:19,839 --> 00:24:22,039 down schools. They were on the right side of this. And if we 356 00:24:22,039 --> 00:24:25,799 don't learn from the past, we're doing for even worse in the future. 357 00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:27,799 I think there's something deeper going on, though, is even if what you 358 00:24:27,839 --> 00:24:33,880 see across those different parts of the country and those communities goes back to this 359 00:24:33,039 --> 00:24:37,319 we're talking about the AI discussion, this hunger for purpose and meaning, and 360 00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:41,359 there's a reason why people bent the need to the COVID religion. It's the 361 00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:45,319 same reason that their same types are bending the need of the new climate religion 362 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:49,000 that has now filled the same vacuum. And so I think that again, 363 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:52,400 if you don't bend the need of the real thing or pledge allegiance to the 364 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:55,839 real flag, you're going to pledge allegiance to something. And there are these 365 00:24:55,880 --> 00:25:00,559 new cults from covidism to climatism, wokeism, trans genderism. I think there 366 00:25:00,559 --> 00:25:06,440 are all symptoms of this deeper need for purpose and meaning. But anyway to 367 00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:10,559 answer your question from earlier, you know, politics is a dirty sport and 368 00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:12,960 it's one thing I've learned through this process, but it's not going to stop 369 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:18,119 me from continually sharing my convictions. Actually, quickly on that climate point, 370 00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:22,400 you've called climate change a hoax, and you actually just mentioned this that maybe 371 00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:29,160 part of the reason that people are pledging fidelity to a hoax or you know, 372 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:33,680 gluing themselves to interpasses for a hoax, is because it relates back to 373 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:36,920 that sense of purpose. But if it is a hoax, there are so 374 00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:41,200 many people involved in it. Do you think that goes back to you know, 375 00:25:41,559 --> 00:25:45,480 pro green money. As you just talked about, politics is a dirty 376 00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:49,559 business. So is business just as dirty as politics. Is it about China? 377 00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:56,240 Why is this sort of vast infrastructure built up around something maybe it's about 378 00:25:56,240 --> 00:26:00,920 economic control, personal control. Why is this vast infrastruction acture built up around 379 00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:06,079 something that is, as you say, not well fleshed out by data. 380 00:26:07,039 --> 00:26:11,279 Well, I've said for a long time that the climate change agenda is absolutely 381 00:26:11,319 --> 00:26:14,440 a hoax. And the reason I call it a hoax is one of the 382 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:17,240 many reasons is it doesn't have anything to do with the climate. This has 383 00:26:17,279 --> 00:26:19,759 to do with and if you listen to their careful advocates of it, what 384 00:26:19,799 --> 00:26:23,759 we might call global equity. That's what you know. Many of the activists 385 00:26:23,759 --> 00:26:29,079 even site when talking about the climate, what does that mean? It means 386 00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:32,720 letting China catch up to the United States, and so China, I think 387 00:26:32,799 --> 00:26:36,440 is laughing at every step of the way. Is we apply emissions caps and 388 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:41,039 constraints in the US that China is itself not willing to adopt. So we're 389 00:26:41,079 --> 00:26:45,440 shifting carbon emissions from the US to China in the name of fighting global climate 390 00:26:45,519 --> 00:26:49,960 change. The people who are most strongly opposed to carbon emissions in the US 391 00:26:51,519 --> 00:26:56,119 are also those who are most strongly opposed to nuclear energy, which is the 392 00:26:56,160 --> 00:27:00,400 greatest form of carbon free energy production known to man. This doesn't make sense 393 00:27:00,559 --> 00:27:03,400 unless you see what's actually going on, which is, for example, that 394 00:27:03,519 --> 00:27:10,000 nuclear energy might be too good addressing their made up crisis. Because this has 395 00:27:10,039 --> 00:27:12,400 nothing to do with the climate and everything to do with shackling the West and 396 00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:18,839 the US, in particular from unbridled economic growth. And so it's about letting 397 00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:22,920 China catch up at the US. China's using multilateral institutions like the UN to 398 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:25,680 do it. They're laughing at every step of the way. And then you 399 00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:29,799 have vested financial interests who are playing both sides in China versus the US. 400 00:27:30,319 --> 00:27:33,799 Take the likes of Black Rock, which is using the money of everyday citizens 401 00:27:33,839 --> 00:27:40,799 here to tell companies like Chevron and Exxon that they can't pursue certain amounts of 402 00:27:40,839 --> 00:27:45,400 drilling projects. Yet they're not applying those same constraints even as a large shareholder 403 00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:48,119 of Petro China at the exact same time on the other side of the world. 404 00:27:48,839 --> 00:27:51,319 And the reason why is China would say close the door on your way 405 00:27:51,319 --> 00:27:52,920 out and get the heck out of here if you're applying an emissions cap to 406 00:27:53,039 --> 00:27:57,400 Chinese companies, but if you're applying those same constraints to US companies at the 407 00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:00,400 same time, they will roll out in the red carpet. And so this 408 00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:04,759 is China using quote unquote capitalism, and I put air quotes around it because 409 00:28:04,759 --> 00:28:11,000 it's not real capitalism, it's mercantilism. But using this bastardized form of capitalism 410 00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:14,759 as a way to undermine the US from within, and the smoke screen of 411 00:28:14,759 --> 00:28:18,640 the climate is just the excuse of the trojan horse to do it. Yeah, 412 00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:22,160 And since we're abroad here, India's a rising power that the next president 413 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:25,319 is going to have to deal with. And I think, for the first 414 00:28:25,319 --> 00:28:29,519 time I can think of there are two candidates running for the GOP nation nomination 415 00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:33,599 who both have parents from India. But India is not a singular place. 416 00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:37,960 It's not monolithic at all, and both you and Haley are from different backgrounds 417 00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:42,359 Brahm and Hindu. She's seek Do you see that this inform Do you think 418 00:28:42,359 --> 00:28:47,720 this informs a different perspective on how your administration might deal with India or how 419 00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:51,559 you look at the rise of India from Haley or from politicians who don't have 420 00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:56,200 any family and relational background to these countries. I don't, I mean, 421 00:28:56,240 --> 00:29:00,640 frankly, I don't think it does. What probably informs my journey as being 422 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:06,319 a first generation kit of immigrants and the fact that I've lived the American dream 423 00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:11,079 with parents that came to this country with no money and through merit and hard 424 00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:15,880 work and dedication have gone on to live an American dream and found multi billion 425 00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:18,279 dollar companies in ways that my parents never imagine. That's what gives me, 426 00:29:18,319 --> 00:29:22,559 I think, a deeper sense of gratitude to this country, and so that 427 00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:27,240 experience definitely does inform the way I'll lead. I happen to believe that better 428 00:29:27,279 --> 00:29:34,920 relations with India is important as part of our way of declaring economic independence from 429 00:29:36,039 --> 00:29:40,000 China and securing ourselves with some of the risks of China. But I don't 430 00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:44,839 think that my being Indian American informs that view. Now, if somebody is 431 00:29:44,839 --> 00:29:48,599 going to be able to improve our relationship with India to where it needs to 432 00:29:48,599 --> 00:29:49,759 be, it better, darn will be somebody with the name of a Kwa 433 00:29:49,799 --> 00:29:55,240 MASLAMI I suppose, But I think that I'm doing that. My capacity is 434 00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:57,799 not a hyphenated American, but as an American. Well, how about the 435 00:29:57,839 --> 00:30:03,559 miss the potential problems with India that could mirror some of the problems that came 436 00:30:03,599 --> 00:30:10,559 with our alignment initial alignment with China through things like wto et cetera. To 437 00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:15,480 Christmas point, India's obviously arising power is hugely important in geopolitics and in economics 438 00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:19,000 around the world, and for our country, especially for example, some companies 439 00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:25,000 that because of the sort of de alignment or gradual de alignment, incremental delignment, 440 00:30:25,079 --> 00:30:27,599 potential de alignment we're experiencing with China, are picking up and moving their 441 00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:32,480 operations to India, which is a country that we frankly don't see eye to 442 00:30:32,559 --> 00:30:37,039 eye with on everything. Sort of from a kissingery and perspective, that's quite 443 00:30:37,039 --> 00:30:42,880 all right, But do you fear that American businesses will replicate some mistakes that 444 00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:49,400 were made with China businesses, politicians and that mercantilist sense, does driving people 445 00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:55,440 towards India risk making some of those same mistakes. I think the risk exists 446 00:30:55,519 --> 00:30:57,640 absolutely, and I think that we need to be conscious of those risks by 447 00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:00,799 making sure that has to play by the same set of rules that we do 448 00:31:00,839 --> 00:31:04,440 when it comes to state owned enterprises or subsidies or otherwise. But I think 449 00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:08,920 that the dangerous status quo is unacceptable. Well, we are now dependent on 450 00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:14,799 an adversary in communist China for our entire modern way of life, from the 451 00:31:14,839 --> 00:31:18,119 shoes on our feet to the phones in our pockets to ninety five percent of 452 00:31:18,119 --> 00:31:22,480 the over the counter pharmaceuticals that you get at the pharmacy to even our own 453 00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:26,839 military relying on equipment coming from China. That's unacceptable. And so the first 454 00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:30,400 best solution that I stand by, and I think I have offered probably the 455 00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:34,960 clearest plan for how to achieve is onshore much of that production, as much 456 00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:37,880 of it as we can to the United States of America. But I am 457 00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:42,839 so serious about declaring economic independence from China that we will have to supplement that 458 00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:48,200 with improved relationships with the likes of South Korea and Japan and Australia and India 459 00:31:48,279 --> 00:31:51,799 as well. But that's the second best alternative to bring as much as we 460 00:31:51,839 --> 00:31:55,000 can to the US, and we better don well make sure none of those 461 00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:59,559 countries exploit us. And that's why I favor bilateral trade relationships at the US 462 00:31:59,599 --> 00:32:02,799 negotiat. It's rather than these multilateral agreements that have been saddled with a lot 463 00:32:02,799 --> 00:32:07,359 of anti American garbage, including by the way, the climate change agenda to 464 00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:13,160 tie to what we talked about earlier. And these same people who push these 465 00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:17,240 far that these are military capacities abroad, also fancy themselves kind of the conscience 466 00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:21,839 of the world on foreign policy. They're quick to lecture you on Israel and 467 00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:24,480 Ukraine. You're the only Republican candidate major canaon in this cycle. At always 468 00:32:24,519 --> 00:32:28,880 pushed back on both of the narratives in Washington, d C. On defense 469 00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:31,599 with those countries. But I noticed that there are tens of thousands of people 470 00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:36,039 getting killed in Sudan and no one in Washington d C. Blinks. I 471 00:32:36,039 --> 00:32:39,160 wonder if you're seeing, is there a link between US overseas sanctimonium when it's 472 00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:45,359 profitable. Why is the difference here with all these people who stand on stage 473 00:32:45,559 --> 00:32:50,279 and lecture you on their morality of their foreign policy. Well, lecturing crowd 474 00:32:50,319 --> 00:32:52,799 has nothing to say, for example, even about what Ozerbaijan is doing one 475 00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:59,720 hundred and twenty thousand Armenian Christians that just in September were displaced from Nagono Karabakh, 476 00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:04,079 with actually the US subsidizing Azerbaijan's efforts to do it. Not a peep 477 00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:07,599 from either major political party. And the reason it has nothing to do with 478 00:33:07,599 --> 00:33:10,160 good versus evil or in Sudan or anywhere else. It has to do with 479 00:33:10,519 --> 00:33:15,279 really which you know. I mean to take Ozerbaijan Armenia example. Azerbaijan is 480 00:33:15,319 --> 00:33:20,359 a really well organized lobby in the United States, and so Ozerbaijan's lobby was 481 00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:22,960 more successful than Armenia. That's what it comes down to. And so my 482 00:33:23,079 --> 00:33:27,400 view is that just as as a father, my moral obligation is to my 483 00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:32,279 family. As the US president, my sole moral duty is to the people 484 00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:37,519 of this country, not any other one. Now that's not isolationist. I 485 00:33:37,519 --> 00:33:40,720 think that that requires engaging in multiple different situations in different ways. But there's 486 00:33:40,759 --> 00:33:45,799 only one filter that I'll use for that engagement, and that is what advances 487 00:33:45,839 --> 00:33:49,720 the interests of American citizens here at home. That's the going to lead this 488 00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:53,119 country. And I think that the country deserves a president that actually prioritizes its 489 00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:57,839 own citizens. That's how other countries are led. There's no reason that the 490 00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:01,519 United States should operate in a disadvantage. You know, it's been interesting to 491 00:34:01,599 --> 00:34:07,839 watch Republicans and Republican voters sort of discover exactly how radical the left is when 492 00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:09,840 it comes to things like sex and gender. And I don't know if you 493 00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:15,920 follow the story of Ion Hersili is conversion to Christianity, as she's written about 494 00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:20,719 it, but kind of fascinating. She cites Dominion by Tom Holland and this 495 00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:24,000 idea that a lot of our sort of ethics in the United States and in 496 00:34:24,039 --> 00:34:30,840 the West are fundamentally derived from the philosophy of Christ. They are sort of 497 00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:37,960 thoroughly Christian, and people who bulk at Christianity and religion are ultimately still demanding 498 00:34:37,679 --> 00:34:44,519 the world follow Christian ethics or ethics that can't be divorced from their Christian heritage. 499 00:34:45,079 --> 00:34:52,000 Do you sort of share that perspective? How important is that worldview? 500 00:34:52,119 --> 00:34:55,480 Is that foundation to your own worldview and to the way that you approach politics. 501 00:34:57,159 --> 00:35:00,800 It's foundational. I think it's true that this nation was founded on those 502 00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:04,239 judayo of Christian principles. I think I might even state it more broadly, 503 00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:07,559 maybe in a way that Thomas Jefferson may have, the guy who happened to 504 00:35:07,599 --> 00:35:12,280 sign the Declaration of Independence, who was a Deist extually not a traditional Christian 505 00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:15,000 himself, but shared those same values as I do myself. I mean, 506 00:35:15,039 --> 00:35:19,159 I'm Hindu. I'd be the first Hindu president of the United States. But 507 00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:22,519 what are my beliefs. I believe there's one true God. I believe we 508 00:35:22,599 --> 00:35:24,880 put us here for a purpose, that we have a duty to realize that 509 00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:30,960 purpose. That were equal because God resides in each of us. I was 510 00:35:30,079 --> 00:35:35,599 raised in a faith based household, faith focused household where my parents instilled in 511 00:35:35,639 --> 00:35:39,599 me a strong set of Certainly they raised us in very traditional values, you 512 00:35:39,599 --> 00:35:43,280 know, through my teenage years. Like many people probably left that, but 513 00:35:43,599 --> 00:35:46,320 maybe you've come back to it as an adult with a greater conviction. But 514 00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:52,199 they raised just in a household that believe that family is the foundation. Marriage 515 00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:55,559 is sacred. Abstinence before marriage is the way to go. Divorce is not 516 00:35:55,679 --> 00:36:00,079 just some option that you prefer and select when things don't go well. The 517 00:36:00,079 --> 00:36:05,239 good things in life involve a sacrifice. That there's more to life than just 518 00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:07,679 this life on earth, but an eternal life ahead. That there's more to 519 00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:12,519 life than the aameless passage of time, you know. And it's funny because 520 00:36:12,519 --> 00:36:15,760 when I went to say next high school, Saints Abra in Cincinnati. You 521 00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:20,400 know, it's Catholic high school with a very rigorous religious education in the Bible, 522 00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:23,559 and I read the Ten Commandments for the first time. There's one true 523 00:36:23,599 --> 00:36:28,320 God, don't take his name in vain, observe the Sabbath, respect your 524 00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:32,239 parents, don't lie, don't steal, don't cheat, don't commit adultery, 525 00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:37,960 don't Covet. That's when it hit me for the first time. These values 526 00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:43,960 don't belong to Hindus, they don't belong to Christians, they belong to God. 527 00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:49,320 But they absolutely are the values that this nation was founded on. And 528 00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:52,719 I think that when we lose that moral fabric, you know, as John 529 00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:57,360 Adams famously said, our constitution was made for a moral people, I do 530 00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:00,239 think that that's a real deficit in our country. And so, you know, 531 00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:05,519 will I stand for those values affirmatively without apologizing for them, Absolutely, 532 00:37:06,039 --> 00:37:09,960 And I think those where conservatives have become lazy just criticizing the left narrative of 533 00:37:10,079 --> 00:37:19,960 race, gender, sexuality, and climate without offering our own vision individual family, 534 00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:23,800 nation. Job that beats race, gender, sexuality, and climate if 535 00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:28,119 we have the courage to actually stand for something, and I think it's been 536 00:37:28,159 --> 00:37:30,760 a long time since we've got a leader who does. Some of that is 537 00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:36,039 through policy, at least reversing government policies that are hostile to religious liberty or 538 00:37:36,039 --> 00:37:39,000 to family formation or otherwise. But some of this is also just through the 539 00:37:39,039 --> 00:37:44,119 revival of national character. And that's I think half the job of the US 540 00:37:44,199 --> 00:37:47,880 president isn't just policy, but it is the revival of character in our country 541 00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:52,199 through the example we set in the way we lead this nation. And I 542 00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:55,840 take that pretty seriously as an important part of my job as the youngest person 543 00:37:55,920 --> 00:38:00,960 ever to run for US president as a Republican, it is my job and 544 00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:07,960 responsibility to make faith and family and hard work and patriotism cool again for young 545 00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:12,079 Americans. And I think I can do that in a way that frankly, 546 00:38:12,119 --> 00:38:14,760 nobody else in this race can. We already are, and that's the way 547 00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:17,920 I'm going to lead this country. The Vike Ramaswami is running for president of 548 00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:22,360 the United States. His website is Vivike twenty twenty four dot com. Sir, 549 00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:25,320 thank you so much for joining the show. I appreciate you guys having 550 00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:32,760 it. Thank you all right. Well, that was presidential candidate the Vake 551 00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:37,239 Ramaswami. Once again, I'm joined by Christopher Bedford of the Common Sense Society. 552 00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:40,880 Chris, some really interesting stuff there. I wanted to open the interview 553 00:38:42,159 --> 00:38:45,679 with that question about the DeSantis campaign because it's been weighing on my mind for 554 00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:50,599 like months now. I was somebody who was very actually pretty excited about the 555 00:38:50,679 --> 00:38:55,400 DeSantis campaign, and I honestly think that his approach to Trump may be the 556 00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:59,119 one thing. I mean, I don't think anybody really was going to beat 557 00:38:59,159 --> 00:39:01,079 Donald Trump. But if he did have a chance of beating Donald Trump, 558 00:39:02,079 --> 00:39:06,559 I think that may have been if he had taken the AVC approach to Trump. 559 00:39:07,079 --> 00:39:10,360 He may be really competitive in different states right now. He may be 560 00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:15,239 really competitive in national polling right now as opposed to being done by two digits. 561 00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:20,360 So I think the vik had an interesting answer to that he did, 562 00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:23,920 And another model he could have followed is the Galvin Narsom model for Joe Biden. 563 00:39:24,079 --> 00:39:27,920 That's something that would have still had him very high even though he wouldn't 564 00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:30,199 be running in polls. And so that was an interesting thing to kind of 565 00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:37,199 look back on. And you know, I was very excited for Rona Santas's 566 00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:38,400 run. I didn't think that he should skip his moment. I thought it 567 00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:43,840 was important to go right now. But what Revic said is what I've heard 568 00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:47,199 from the start. Now, remember when this whole campaign began. One of 569 00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:52,159 the things that made the Senus different from like Nikki Haley a lot of other 570 00:39:52,199 --> 00:39:55,119 people. Just one of the things was that he was very skeptical of the 571 00:39:55,159 --> 00:40:00,159 war in Ukraine and the US effort yes, that lasted a single interview as 572 00:40:00,159 --> 00:40:01,480 far as I can tell. And I said, what's changed here? What's 573 00:40:01,519 --> 00:40:05,880 changed here to friends of mine who are in the now, and the response 574 00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:09,840 was donors, donor flip out, donor freakout over that sort of thing, 575 00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:14,079 And well, he's I still think he's trying to ride both sides of that 576 00:40:14,119 --> 00:40:19,079 fence. It's not he's much more, I think, willing to buck the 577 00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:23,559 establishment, the neo conservative establishment of the Republican Party, than any Republican candidate. 578 00:40:23,639 --> 00:40:25,679 That is completely true. I agree with that, other than Trump was 579 00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:30,800 in twenty sixteen or in twenty twelve in that primary. It's still different, 580 00:40:31,119 --> 00:40:36,800 but it's it's disappointing because he was someone that didn't seem to be interested in 581 00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:42,360 political ambivalence. And from what I both of us have sort of poked and 582 00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:45,360 prodded into that world to figure out what's going on, and it actually, 583 00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:50,280 to me does seem like the vag Ramaswami's answer is correct that there was a 584 00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:57,159 lack of flexibility in that sort of campaign donor driven, consultant driven ecosystem, 585 00:40:57,320 --> 00:41:00,599 and which thanks for someone like Governor the Santis is he blew up open the 586 00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:04,400 window on what things Republicans are able to talk about. In the first place, 587 00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:07,239 he is the leader on the ground for our Republicans are able to go 588 00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:12,559 after corporate power and say hell no to big major industries in their states. 589 00:41:12,559 --> 00:41:13,960 What are you going to do? What are you going to do about it? 590 00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:15,440 The way they left us? All the time, We're going to fight 591 00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:19,800 for our constituents. But by the time he is running for president, the 592 00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:22,440 Overton window had shifted enough that well, he's still the only one of the 593 00:41:22,519 --> 00:41:24,280 only ones who's proven to actually be willing to do it. Lots of Republicans 594 00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:28,480 talk. The other Republicans on the debate stage are willing to talk tough. 595 00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:30,599 I don't think they'd actually do it like Governor de Santis has done, but 596 00:41:30,639 --> 00:41:34,119 they're willing to say it. So that kind of closes some of his lanes. 597 00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:38,639 And being a sitting governor who's not self funded and he's not a billionaire, 598 00:41:38,679 --> 00:41:44,679 he's a veteran civil servant, he doesn't have the ability to just tell 599 00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:46,320 those donors to get lost, and those donors have a big impact. So 600 00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:51,199 those places where Vivek is able to go outside of the Overton window and push 601 00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:57,800 it on Ukraine policy, on Israel policy on big corporate tax policy, wherever 602 00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:00,840 he wants to push it, he's got more freedom. And unfortunately, well 603 00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:08,320 to Santis trailblaze that everyone's caught up. Just the DC consultant world, I 604 00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:13,519 think really infected that campaign, and we're seeing more reporting to the extent that 605 00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:16,480 people in that world are understanding it to be true as well. Now, 606 00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:21,480 any other candidates, Chris, we should say, we are willing to talk 607 00:42:21,519 --> 00:42:23,199 to you on the podcast. We're willing to try to make it work. 608 00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:28,079 But it's sorry Sean and Moley, but we have to know that you're gonna 609 00:42:28,079 --> 00:42:30,960 be gained for a podcast because I'm not doing talking points on the show. 610 00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:35,320 That's not fun for listeners and it's a waste of everybody's time because they do 611 00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:39,000 that on cable news basically every day. Were there any other actually you had 612 00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:45,639 that great idea for the question about the differences in background between the families of 613 00:42:45,719 --> 00:42:49,679 Nikki Haley and the viag Ramaswami as it pertains to India, which is a 614 00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:53,760 hugely important geopolitical and economic force right now, anything stand out to you from 615 00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:59,880 that exchange. No, I didn't expect. I didn't expect any of it 616 00:43:00,039 --> 00:43:06,719 person really running for presidential politics to dive down into the sectarian differences between different 617 00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:10,880 religions in India, which have since the British withdrawal from India have oftentimes gotten 618 00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:16,559 very violent and been dangerous. But I did think it was interesting that he 619 00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:21,679 talked about what the shift from China is going to take and that part of 620 00:43:21,679 --> 00:43:24,239 that shift from China is going to be close to work with India and South 621 00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:28,199 Korean others. And you know, if we'd had more time, I would 622 00:43:28,239 --> 00:43:31,320 have liked to go back and ask him more because India is a rising in 623 00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:37,639 power economically, but all the jobs that are disappearing in America due to AI 624 00:43:37,199 --> 00:43:42,559 or where India's filled the gap, I think AI is going to have a 625 00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:49,440 devastating impact on India's economy because I mean, whether it's in design or website 626 00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:52,960 building or accounting, those are things that are getting replaced. So I wish 627 00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:54,599 we had a little more time to talk about that, but happy we got 628 00:43:54,599 --> 00:43:57,679 to touch on it at all, and in the limited time we have on 629 00:43:57,719 --> 00:44:00,679 the campaign. Traip Yeah, no, you know, we went for thirty 630 00:44:00,719 --> 00:44:06,199 minutes, which is a pretty good get with a presidential candidate because they always 631 00:44:06,199 --> 00:44:08,400 have a crazy, scheduling, busy, busy, busy. Yes, they 632 00:44:09,039 --> 00:44:12,920 you know, a little traveling, little talking, little meaning, all that 633 00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:16,159 good stuff. The last question I think was especially interesting in the spirit of 634 00:44:16,159 --> 00:44:22,519 the Common Sense Society to actually kind of, you know, go to the 635 00:44:22,559 --> 00:44:29,039 greatest depths that any candidate possesses, and you know, sort of plumb the 636 00:44:29,039 --> 00:44:32,400 depths of their political philosophy. You know, we could have man. After 637 00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:36,239 the interview wrapped, Chris, you and I were both talking about how many 638 00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:39,760 follow up questions we had just to that question in and of itself. I'm 639 00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:43,880 glad we got, you know, the question in I'm glad we got to 640 00:44:44,239 --> 00:44:46,480 hear it from him, you know, and I was curious to see it. 641 00:44:46,519 --> 00:44:50,719 I'm doubtful that his answers on religion are going to fly with a lot 642 00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:54,320 of the socially conservative question voters. I would have loved to get into his 643 00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:59,559 position on marriage. I would have loved to get into whether he thinks everything 644 00:44:59,559 --> 00:45:02,760 he just said relates to his position on Israel. That there were a lot 645 00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:06,400 of places to go with that. No, maybe we can talk to him 646 00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:08,480 again later. There you go. Well, Christopher Bedford of the Common Sense 647 00:45:08,519 --> 00:45:12,679 Society, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you all right. 648 00:45:12,679 --> 00:45:15,199 I'm Emily Joshinsky, culture editor here at The Federalist. We'll be back soon 649 00:45:15,239 --> 00:45:20,159 with more. Until then, be lovers of freedom and anxious for the friend