WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:05.599 Explain what neuralink is and what the goal of it is. We put a 2 00:00:05.679 --> 00:00:11.400 chip in your brain to control your mind. Yeah, okay, all right, 3 00:00:11.480 --> 00:00:16.079 concerns, Yeah, jump right in, step right up, who wants 4 00:00:16.120 --> 00:00:23.000 one? So neuralink you'll be able to see neural link coming from a very 5 00:00:23.000 --> 00:00:28.000 long distance because any device that you implanted in a human is you have to 6 00:00:28.199 --> 00:00:32.799 go through a million, so many tests. It moves very slowly. You 7 00:00:32.920 --> 00:00:37.399 just do a few people at a time and then you go to extreme lengths 8 00:00:37.439 --> 00:00:41.439 to prove safety. You have to go through the FDA approvals. Like we're 9 00:00:41.479 --> 00:00:47.520 not trying to side step any you know, regulatory approvals doing everything. You 10 00:00:47.719 --> 00:00:53.280 buy the book and with maximum we're really actually we're going far beyond what the 11 00:00:53.359 --> 00:00:58.000 requirements are of the FDA from a safety standpoint, and the initial devices will 12 00:00:58.039 --> 00:01:03.439 really just be pretty basic. It'll be about restoring functionality to people who've lost 13 00:01:03.479 --> 00:01:07.519 their connection between their their brain and their body. So you can imagine like 14 00:01:07.519 --> 00:01:14.079 if say Stephen Hawking could talk communicate as fast as somebody with a fully functioning 15 00:01:14.120 --> 00:01:17.799 body, that'll be amazing. So that's like the what we're trying to do 16 00:01:18.200 --> 00:01:23.959 that that's our first application is to restore functionality to quatter fleix, tetraplegics and 17 00:01:23.200 --> 00:01:27.680 people who have just for whatever reason, no longer have a connection between or 18 00:01:27.719 --> 00:01:34.159 if a limited connection between their their their their brain and their body. And 19 00:01:34.280 --> 00:01:40.239 then the second application would be restoration of eyesight. So if somebody's gone completely 20 00:01:40.280 --> 00:01:45.719 blind, maybe even just lost the optic nerve, you can actually still directly 21 00:01:46.680 --> 00:01:53.519 assimilate the neurons in the visual part of the cortex, so you can give 22 00:01:55.280 --> 00:02:00.680 direct vision to the brain. In fact, you could actually depending upon what 23 00:02:00.799 --> 00:02:04.480 cameras you use, you can actually see in different wavelengths. Okay, you 24 00:02:04.560 --> 00:02:07.840 know, like Jory LaForce from like you know, because I have that, 25 00:02:07.039 --> 00:02:13.800 Like I actually watched like an episode of Start Take the Next Generation with special 26 00:02:13.800 --> 00:02:17.840 effects compared to what we're used to, like you know, not that great, 27 00:02:17.879 --> 00:02:22.599 but he's got like the wrap round you know, glasses, and you 28 00:02:22.639 --> 00:02:28.680 can see in different wavelengths, so you can see like ultra violet, infrared 29 00:02:28.719 --> 00:02:30.639 and that kind of thing. So you can actually do that. You could 30 00:02:30.639 --> 00:02:35.840 say, like you could see in radar if you want. And what's the 31 00:02:36.039 --> 00:02:38.280 what's the long term what's the long term goal for it? Because I think 32 00:02:39.159 --> 00:02:46.360 myself and others I think the first part is the first part sounds sounds fine, 33 00:02:46.360 --> 00:02:50.080 sounds yeah, that's like card argue with yeah yeah. But long term, 34 00:02:50.159 --> 00:02:53.919 I think, I mean, the concern that people have is is this 35 00:02:53.120 --> 00:02:59.080 just leading us into this dystopian transhumanist future? Where where does it go? 36 00:02:59.400 --> 00:03:01.840 What are the what are the ethical boundaries of it? Well, I mean 37 00:03:02.639 --> 00:03:06.680 the thing I wanted to empasize is that it's not going to like sort of 38 00:03:06.719 --> 00:03:09.400 pounce on us overnight. You'll see it coming. It's going to be very 39 00:03:09.400 --> 00:03:15.360 slow. In fact, I really think that artificial general intelligence or digital superintelligence 40 00:03:15.719 --> 00:03:22.759 is likely to arrive before we have really advanced in your links at least that's 41 00:03:22.759 --> 00:03:30.159 where the trend is right now. But ultimately the idea would be to achieve 42 00:03:30.599 --> 00:03:38.840 symbiosis between our biological mind and our kind of digital mind. So we're already 43 00:03:38.919 --> 00:03:42.719 kind of a cyborg. If you think of like your phone and your computers 44 00:03:42.759 --> 00:03:46.919 as an extension of yourself. In fact, like if you leave your phone 45 00:03:46.919 --> 00:03:49.759 behind, it's like you have missing limbs syndrome. You're like, where do 46 00:03:49.800 --> 00:03:54.039 it go? You know, And so the phone is kind of an extension 47 00:03:54.039 --> 00:03:59.919 of ourselves, like computer is. The various applications that we use are an 48 00:04:00.000 --> 00:04:01.960 extention of self. So we are already a cyborg. It's just that the 49 00:04:02.000 --> 00:04:10.560 interfaces with our eyes and our fingers and and that that interface especially output. 50 00:04:10.639 --> 00:04:15.240 The rate at which we can type words into a phone or a computer just 51 00:04:15.400 --> 00:04:19.560 it's very slow. Our input is much better because with the data rate from 52 00:04:19.639 --> 00:04:26.040 vision is you know, I don't know, many thousands of times maybe a 53 00:04:26.040 --> 00:04:30.079 million times better than the rate of which we can output. So input is 54 00:04:30.120 --> 00:04:38.319 like maybe roughly a million times better than output. And so so what what 55 00:04:38.439 --> 00:04:44.079 a neural device can do is improve that bandwidth, allow allow you to be 56 00:04:45.079 --> 00:04:50.000 sort of much more symbiotic with your the AI extension of yourself. So you 57 00:04:50.040 --> 00:04:54.759 can think of like like a human brain really is could be augubly divided into 58 00:04:54.879 --> 00:05:00.800 two parts. One is kind of like the primitive brain, the reptile brain 59 00:05:00.839 --> 00:05:02.399 it's sometimes called, you know, it's like got a sort of basic instinct. 60 00:05:02.560 --> 00:05:08.319 And then we've got the cortex, like the higher level thinking, planning 61 00:05:08.360 --> 00:05:13.079 and that kind of thing. The two operate symbiotically. So I haven't yet 62 00:05:13.160 --> 00:05:16.560 met anyone who wants to delete their olympic system or deleat their cortex. Everyone's 63 00:05:16.639 --> 00:05:19.439 quite happy having both they're like, I like that the way there is, 64 00:05:19.519 --> 00:05:24.600 you know, but your cortex is way smarter than your Olympic system. So 65 00:05:24.959 --> 00:05:27.720 but the irony is that even though the cortex is way smarter than the Limbic 66 00:05:27.800 --> 00:05:30.839 system, most of what it's doing, you're trying to make the Olympic system 67 00:05:30.879 --> 00:05:33.399 happy. It's like Limbic systems hunky hungry. Okay, let's get some food. 68 00:05:34.800 --> 00:05:39.079 The Olympic system is horny. Okay, let's you know, have sex 69 00:05:39.199 --> 00:05:43.839 or whatever. See, I mean the sheer amount of of of effort, 70 00:05:43.920 --> 00:05:49.199 the you know, the cortexes have of all the humans have put into trying 71 00:05:49.240 --> 00:05:56.319 to get laid is insane. It's got to keep the species gone. Yeah, 72 00:05:56.360 --> 00:05:59.959 but it's not even with even if you know, it's not for appropriate 73 00:06:00.240 --> 00:06:03.399 like the like the Limbic system is. It's it's really like too simple to 74 00:06:03.560 --> 00:06:09.879 understand that, like sex does not resulting in procreation because for almost all of 75 00:06:09.959 --> 00:06:15.160 human existence that it did. Both control is a very recent thing. So 76 00:06:15.399 --> 00:06:23.319 the Limbic system is like trying to insent procreation. And but but now we 77 00:06:23.399 --> 00:06:27.480 can effectively hack Thelympic system by doing procreation, but by having sex without a 78 00:06:27.519 --> 00:06:35.000 procreation. So which is I guess maybe part of the issue with you know, 79 00:06:35.040 --> 00:06:38.279 why do we have more kids is like in the past, that would 80 00:06:38.279 --> 00:06:42.040 just happened because you know, in order to make the limbic system happy, 81 00:06:42.040 --> 00:06:45.879 you'd have sex. You didn't have both control, so you pop out some 82 00:06:45.959 --> 00:06:50.720 goods. Yes, So that's that's how it used to be. So so 83 00:06:51.000 --> 00:06:55.160 so so even though you've got cortex that's way smarter than the limbic system, 84 00:06:55.519 --> 00:06:59.720 the cortex is still basically just trying to make the limbic system happy. And 85 00:07:00.920 --> 00:07:02.519 and then if you think of like the computers as a sort of a third 86 00:07:02.639 --> 00:07:08.279 layer, the AI is a third layer. It's not necessarily the case that 87 00:07:08.439 --> 00:07:15.439 the AI would be acting contrary to our interests. I think if it's closely 88 00:07:15.519 --> 00:07:21.759 linked with a biological intelligence, I think it could actually be just again trying 89 00:07:21.800 --> 00:07:25.319 to make the cortex happy, which is trying to make the limit system happy. 90 00:07:25.680 --> 00:07:28.360 So I think we'll put even more computing power to try to get laid. 91 00:07:28.759 --> 00:07:36.240 Basically, now the AI is going to help you get laid. I 92 00:07:36.319 --> 00:07:40.279 think. I think what it is that that concerns people about it number one, 93 00:07:40.480 --> 00:07:42.600 you know number one being new, But I think the main thing is 94 00:07:43.680 --> 00:07:47.519 is the the fact that this is something that's like inside inside your body. 95 00:07:48.480 --> 00:07:53.959 Right, I think that the idea of putting a chip ins the idea of 96 00:07:54.000 --> 00:07:56.639 someone putting a chip in my brain. I just have a bit, I 97 00:07:56.720 --> 00:08:03.399 have a visceral. No, I have I have a very an optional thing. 98 00:08:03.480 --> 00:08:05.480 I mean it's going to you know, would it would it be the 99 00:08:05.639 --> 00:08:09.959 long term? I mean, I hope so I think it should be optional 100 00:08:09.519 --> 00:08:13.439 too bizarre if it was not. No, I think it's kind of like 101 00:08:13.920 --> 00:08:18.839 kind What was the reason I ask? Is because smartphones right now are sort 102 00:08:18.879 --> 00:08:24.439 of optional. But if you don't have a smartphone the way everything is sort 103 00:08:24.439 --> 00:08:30.160 of designed around society, you, yes, you cannot have a smartphone, 104 00:08:30.639 --> 00:08:35.600 but it's a massive hindrance and disadvantage in many ways. True, a smartphone 105 00:08:35.679 --> 00:08:39.320 is almost essentral and a mout in society to do things. Yeah, so 106 00:08:39.480 --> 00:08:43.320 could a neuralink end up in that same sort of place. It's possible, 107 00:08:43.360 --> 00:08:48.080 But I'm just saying if it does, it's it's it's many decades from now, 108 00:08:48.159 --> 00:08:50.919 so it's not like, you know, it's not today's problem. Yeah, 109 00:08:52.039 --> 00:08:56.960 I'd worry about more about digital superintelligence. I'd worry about let's try to 110 00:08:56.960 --> 00:09:01.960 avoid world War three, let's sure we're at least having enough kids to sustain 111 00:09:03.039 --> 00:09:07.639 our population, you know, basic stuff like that. Yeah, what's your 112 00:09:07.720 --> 00:09:13.279 greatest concern with artificial intelligence? Because I know that you have worked with it, 113 00:09:13.480 --> 00:09:20.360 but also I know it's something that you personally have massive concerns about as 114 00:09:20.440 --> 00:09:26.360 well, which you've voiced in this podcast and elsewhere. Yeah. I think 115 00:09:26.399 --> 00:09:33.000 that actually the most likely outcome for artificial intelligence is that it is good. 116 00:09:33.080 --> 00:09:37.720 That it will improve our lives most likely, but there's some chance that it 117 00:09:37.000 --> 00:09:41.720 will not, And I think we just need to be cognizant of that and 118 00:09:41.000 --> 00:09:46.360 understand that it's a powerful technology. It's a double edged sword, and we 119 00:09:46.480 --> 00:09:50.559 need to put a lot of effort into ensuring that we have a good AI 120 00:09:50.679 --> 00:09:54.840 outcome and not a bad one. What does a good one look like? 121 00:09:56.919 --> 00:10:00.639 Well, if I'd recommend people to read the in Banks books, the culture 122 00:10:00.679 --> 00:10:07.799 books, that's the best representation of a positive AI human future that I've seen. 123 00:10:09.399 --> 00:10:16.679 Okay, so that's my recommendation. I mean it effectively a I I 124 00:10:16.720 --> 00:10:24.240 think it will massively enhance human ability. It's like just a massive amplifier of 125 00:10:26.000 --> 00:10:33.639 human ability, just like the computer was. So really is just a question 126 00:10:33.679 --> 00:10:39.960 of like does does it the some risk that it doesn't merely amplify human activity, 127 00:10:39.000 --> 00:10:43.879 but it starts basically just being in charge. And you know there's some 128 00:10:45.120 --> 00:10:52.120 risk at me view humanity negatively and decide that we're a blied on the earth. 129 00:10:52.159 --> 00:10:54.480 Like like I think, like a very dangerous thing would be if if 130 00:10:54.519 --> 00:11:00.519 the if the sort of human extinctionist philosophy somehow got into AI, that would 131 00:11:00.559 --> 00:11:03.000 be bad. Like that guy that was part page in The York Times saying, 132 00:11:03.399 --> 00:11:05.440 you know, the eight billion people on Earth, we don't want him 133 00:11:05.480 --> 00:11:09.720 coding it. We don't want him coding you. Yeah, nice to say 134 00:11:09.399 --> 00:11:11.840 what. And there's quite a few people in the cicular words who have that 135 00:11:13.120 --> 00:11:18.120 either explicit or implicit extinctionis sphere. Yes, whether if your humanity is a 136 00:11:18.159 --> 00:11:20.879 blight on the face the Yeah, there's a lot of anti natalists in the 137 00:11:22.080 --> 00:11:26.879 in the world and people who actually anti human yes, yes, like you 138 00:11:26.919 --> 00:11:30.279 said, people who don't have the pride in being human, right, these 139 00:11:30.279 --> 00:11:35.000 people guilty or even say that that's a speciesism you know that's yeah. Yeah, 140 00:11:35.159 --> 00:11:39.000 I mean I'm a human supremacist. I'll be open about that one. 141 00:11:39.159 --> 00:11:41.200 Yeah. I mean I think we've got to fight for team Human, Like, 142 00:11:41.360 --> 00:11:43.720 if we don't fight for as humans, who who will? Yeah? 143 00:11:43.759 --> 00:11:48.000 I mean if the Earth exists and humans do not, then it's like we're 144 00:11:48.039 --> 00:11:52.600 saving the planet for who at that point. Yeah. What do you think 145 00:11:52.639 --> 00:11:54.960 about AI replacing jobs though, because that's a that's a big concern. Even 146 00:11:54.960 --> 00:12:01.720 if AI doesn't sort of go rogue and start doing something directly horrible, I 147 00:12:01.759 --> 00:12:05.720 think a lot of people's concerns is just, hey, what about everyone's jobs. 148 00:12:05.759 --> 00:12:11.399 I will certainly be very disruptive because jobs will be different. So now 149 00:12:11.480 --> 00:12:16.120 I think the rate of change, the rate the change coursed by AI is 150 00:12:16.200 --> 00:12:20.840 it's going to be pretty radical, so that there will you know, a 151 00:12:20.879 --> 00:12:24.000 lot of jobs that are that currently exist won't exist in the future. But 152 00:12:24.039 --> 00:12:26.799 I think there will be new jobs. And I do think like in a 153 00:12:26.840 --> 00:12:35.080 benign AI scenario, we will really have an age of abundance the I think 154 00:12:35.159 --> 00:12:39.240 really goods and services unless they are artificially made scarce, like like it's specialized 155 00:12:39.360 --> 00:12:43.399 artwork, or you want that particular house in that neighborhood, like it has 156 00:12:43.440 --> 00:12:48.919 been artificial scarcity. But anything that has not made artificially scarce will be plentiful, 157 00:12:48.960 --> 00:12:52.360 as in a benign AI scenario, you'll be able to have any products 158 00:12:52.360 --> 00:13:00.919 and services you want that anyone will. Is that not start to cause a 159 00:13:00.919 --> 00:13:03.519 whole new level of problems? Yeah, it does. It's like it's it's 160 00:13:03.919 --> 00:13:09.519 like, you know, there's there's some things which sound like like a a 161 00:13:09.600 --> 00:13:11.840 blessing but may in fact be a curse. Like I think you will live 162 00:13:11.879 --> 00:13:16.240 forever. It sounds like a blessing, it's actually a curse. You would 163 00:13:16.279 --> 00:13:18.320 not want to live forever. You don't know how long forever it is. 164 00:13:20.840 --> 00:13:26.000 And if you say, another potential curse is you can have anything you want 165 00:13:26.639 --> 00:13:31.360 effortlessly. Are you sure you want that? Yeah? Does anything matter at 166 00:13:31.399 --> 00:13:35.039 that point? Yeah? And what about the value? I mean, I 167 00:13:35.120 --> 00:13:39.519 think a lot of the value of work isn't just getting money to buy things. 168 00:13:39.799 --> 00:13:45.559 It's the meaning, it's the purpose, it's knowing that you worked for 169 00:13:45.759 --> 00:13:48.720 this thing. Right, It's different. It's different to get ten million dollars 170 00:13:48.720 --> 00:13:52.200 because someone just gave you ten million dollars, or you want a lottery versus 171 00:13:52.360 --> 00:13:58.639 you created a business and sold products and services that helped you to earn that 172 00:13:58.759 --> 00:14:03.759 money exactly. So it's like, how do we find meaning and relevance? 173 00:14:05.799 --> 00:14:09.279 If you have an age of abundance where the computer you just ask for anything 174 00:14:09.279 --> 00:14:13.360 and get it, it is something we'll have struggle with that that'll that'll be 175 00:14:15.519 --> 00:14:18.480 I don't know, it's I think that's kind of most likely when we're headed 176 00:14:18.559 --> 00:14:26.720 is an age of abundance, but it will definitely cause some existential angst. 177 00:14:31.519 --> 00:14:33.519 What are you most optimistic about? In fact, if you just say, 178 00:14:33.600 --> 00:14:37.159 like, like for a neural link device, I mean, part of what 179 00:14:37.200 --> 00:14:39.919 I'm hoping is here in a benign AI scenario, like, how do we 180 00:14:41.000 --> 00:14:43.279 even go along for the ride? How do we even understand the AI? 181 00:14:43.919 --> 00:14:48.960 Like if you've got some sort of you know, incredible intelligence unless we do 182 00:14:50.159 --> 00:14:56.600 sort of effectively have better symbiosis, increase the bandwidth to our the AI extension 183 00:14:56.639 --> 00:15:03.000 of ourselves, effectively augment our human intelligence, and substantially we may not even 184 00:15:03.039 --> 00:15:07.320 be able to appreciate the wonders that will exist in the future.