Our next segment comes to us from the Christian Science Monitor, published July eighteenth
by Ingrid Allgred titled Computer Generated Prayer. How AI is changing Faith? This
is really exciting. It's talking about how science and AI specifically is sort of
filling the gap that has been lost in the religious space. What have you
got for Scott, Well, basically, we're seeing the old world colliding with
the new world, right, and let's be honest here, the new World's
gonna win. Okay, this is a this is not This is a very
lopsided battle. Like the Borg from Star Trek used to say, you will
be assimilated, your uniqueness will be added to our collective resistance as futile.
So, but it's interesting to see how different different churches and different groups and
different people react to this kind of thing, react to this advent of AI.
Although AI has been around for a long time in various uh stages of
development, but now we're trying to we're kind of seeing it seep into the
public arena with you know, chat partners and writing papers and well even for
like I'm a math teacher, we we see this all the time. We
we I'll even go onto the websites and look for how various websites will solve
a particular problem. And then I can spot cheaters by saying, oh,
we didn't learn it that way, you did it exactly the same way that
you know, whatever website. But but it's interesting to see how different groups
respond. We have some groups that are that are diving in whole hog,
you know, the big They got the multiple screens up in the in the
U in the sanctuary, they got the rock band up at the front,
they got the websites going, they have multiple social media people talking about things
they have. There's all this stuff. And then on the other end of
the spectrum we have the the Internet is the devil and and and all of
that kind of stuff. And so it's it's interesting from from from someone who
for someone who is interested in the human condition and the way people, you
know, act and think and do things. It's very interesting to watch how
how and and it seems like something very trivial, but really it's something that
dominates all of our lives. You know, we're on these on our devices
and on our technology most of the time these days, and so it seems
like something that's just kind of sneaking in UM. But really it's it's a
very dominant thing. I don't know, Mally, what are your thoughts on
that. Well. I can see why church folks would be a little bit
scared of this UM for a variety of reasons. I don't quite see why
they would embrace it so much other than to, you know, just keep
the audience if they genuinely want to reach hearts and minds. I can read
you that board quote again. If you want, you will be assimilated.
Uh yeah, one way or the other. UM. But you know,
I think if I were a churchgoer, I would be one of those folks
who was scared to death of this thing. And the big question for me
is where is the whole spirit supposed to come in in this mix? Because,
okay, the Holy Spirit's supposed to influence the pastor to come up with
the message, and then the Holy Spirit is supposed to convey that message unto
the ears of the congregation and interpret it for them and parse it out for
them and spoon feed it to them. But you know, if AI is
coming up with the message, you know that's you know, they took the
Holy Spirit's job away. And so where is the what's the Holy Spirit going
to do? Now? Like all it's relegated to just taking the message that's
been remixed and turning it into something good enough. And you know, if
that's the case, you have pastors are obsolete and the whole, the whole
you know, inspiration thing is threatened by that. And then on the other
end, you know, if the Holy Spirit is supposed to be, you
know, on the pastor's end, and it's about you know, the Bible
has that analogy of the seed falls where it will on the stony ground or
the soft ground or whatever, you know, So it seems like the Holy
Spirit is the messenger and we can take it or leave it. So either
way you interpret it, this interpret this, this is going to be an
issue on you know, the giving end or on the receiving end. Also
just the uncanny Valley aspect of it, right, I mean, this is
spirituality we're talking about, and if robots can do everything that spirituality can do,
maybe that betrays some kind of Hey, this is all just psychological manipulation,
you know, distillable down to an algorithm, and we're really that able
to be deceived that easily and manipulated that easily by a simple algorithm, and
I think that's scary, and um, well, you know if you're a
churchgoer, that's scary. It's just fast sinating if you if you just like
facts, right, it depends on which side of the glass you're watching from,
right. Yeah, you know, when I saw the headline to this,
I cracked up because I you probably know, I maybe you know,
and I do a lot of work with Truth Wanted, and this was just
something to write up that alley. So I'm always looking at because I'm always
looking up at conspiracy theories, and one are the ones that's really started to
spread in the last year or so is that since God made it so that
demons could not talk directly to human beings, demons have created AI to talk
to humans. So I saw this headline and I'm like, oh, great,
the demons are making our prayers for us now, isn't that double wins?
Double wins? So I got a real kick out of the headline here,
But it kind of it, you know, I have a little bit
of an evil side. I'm gonna I'm gonna admit that I've been known to
spread that rumor around some YouTube channels that probably shouldn't have been that I shouldn't
have been at the beginning with. But they were talking about the image that
m Well, I got the image that they talked about being described in the
Lutheran Church in Germany of the avatar and the sermon written by chet GPT and
all I could think of was, what did that avatar look like? Did
it have horns? Guy, I couldn't help with doing nothing but laugh about
this story before I lose it again. Chris, you want to take it
from me? Yeah, so like this this is really exciting to me,
A bit of a different take than Malli there. I think it's it's super
exciting from the other side of the aisle. I understand if you're in church,
how scary this sort of thing can be. The first thing that really
stuck out to me in this article was the statistics that they gave us right
at the beginning, um sort of the reasoning that AI has taken such a
such a spot here in the faith community, and that is how median attendance
and weekly services is dropped by more than like fifty percent in the last twenty
years, and in the last three years we've seen monthly attendance even dropping by
about a percent a year, and that is great news. UM unfortunately doesn't
seem to have to have had an impact on the vocal minority, unfortunately.
But I guess when you're really just kind of using the religion as a cover
you don't need to attend services that they isn't that the silent majority that you're
talking about, the silent majority? They sure talk a lot for being a
silent majority. Yeah, right, people as a majority either. It's also
just kind of funny to me how a group whose beliefs, like their core
fundamental beliefs are sort of antithetical to science are now like really leaning into it,
embracing it and embracing it exactly. Uh. And I don't know if
you guys have ever had a conversation with chat GPT or gotten in on the
app and like sort of talk to it. UM. It's really hard,
and it's so funny. It's so fun to just go in there and just
ask you questions and try to get it to nail down an answer. But
when it comes down to asking it questions about things like God and and core
beliefs and truth, it's really hard hard to get it to nail down because
it's it fundamentally doesn't want to offend anybody. But if you really narrow it
down, chat GPT in and of itself can't help but admit that there's no
evidence. So I'm wondering how long it's going to take for AI to sort
of start dropping these hints into its sermons, and if it's going to be
the profit that's going to slowly lead everyone out and sort of you know,
that would be an ending of that movie. That might be what causes the
Christians to finally drop it. I know, it's like reading it some of
the responses from people from other fates. It was only the Christians that were
embracing this. There was a Jewish rabbi that was consulted. There was somebody
from another religion too, I can't remember off the bed, but they both
thought it was a bad idea. It was only the Christians that were embracing
it. And I thought that was kind of interesting, you know, going
off of what Mally was saying earlier about you know, how how is this
working? You know what this is chat GPT kind of usurping the Holy Spirit?
And I know that's kind of a topic in the news lately with the
you know, stuff going on in Hollywood. And actually even former nonprophet Jeff
d who's an artist and a game designer, he's very avidly um, you
know, in favor of artist rites and he's he often talks a lot about
how um, you know, it's putting people out of work, and I
wonder if that's part of what's going on here this Uh, Kelly, you
mentioned um other other religions here. This is a quote from the article.
Reverend Jabulani McCalister, senior pastor at Covenant Baptist Church in West Bloomfield, Michigan,
says that he won't use AI to write a sermon. And I thought
this was really interesting. He said, for me, the Holy Spirit gives
me what to say, not AI. When it comes to the sermon,
you're proclaiming the word of God that He's given you to share. And so
I was why, I mean, wasn't there a Storian about talking to a
burning bush and or a talking donkey, or having visions of angels and your
dreams? And you know, why can't the Holy Spirit speak through an AI?
I mean, because the demons are controlling it. Well, if it
could be a demon, it couldn't it be the whole I mean, come
on, there's got to be you know, we have the we have the
red AI, as we have to have a white AI out there somewhere or
otherwise there's not going to be any story going on here. You know,
we have to have that competition. But you know, if if if God
can't compete with an Ai, there you go. I mean that's that's that's
a challenge and a conclusion right there. If God can't compete with an AI,
then uh well, there you go. We have the AI. You
know what do we need the rest of it for? That's what I would
be sorry, you're fine, go ahead, That's what That's exactly why I
would be afraid of it if I was a church person, because I wouldn't
want to test the theory that my God can be better than an AI because
the AI is going to eventually if they can't already come up with a better
sermon and come up with better you know, messages from an almighty you can
already asks get to give you a holy message in it? Will you know?
It's it's a threat. I would be absolutely terrified. I wonder if
it's like a Wizard of oz you know, look behind the curtain kind of
situation. You know, it's like we're all impressed by this big and great
and powerful oz Oh. But this is what's really causing it, is this
mechanism behind the scenes here, this guy pulling these levers and stuff. You
know, it's kind of well, there you go, that's how we get
it. Boy, Look at that sermon's exactly the same as that sermon.
This one was made by an algorithm. This one was made by somebody with
a soul or what you know whatever. I wonder if that's part of it
is that it's the soul list nature of an ai. Here was another quote.
This one was from a Hindu. Right, this is a dial Garannga.
He's the executive director of Manhattan's Bakti Center, which represents Hinduism's tradition of
Bakti yoga. He said, what makes something powerful is when there's a lived
experience of something. You're not going to get that just by generating a message
about it. And I told disagree, I totally disagree. I think when
people make connections to to to a message, or to to a sermon,
or to a book or to you know, a story, that they're listening
to. It's they are providing the personal connection. They are drawing the meaning
out of the words. It's not it's not that there was some kind of
magical you know, it doesn't have to be magic that makes the message in
the first place. You know, if there is any magic happening there,
it's it's on the on the understanding side. Meaning is from is by definition
a subjective experience, and it needs a subject to be experiencing that. So
you know, if if they're saying that, okay, well this is maybe
the devil or the demon or whatever, because you know, there's no life
experience under their well, life experience is not really all that different than any
other kind of experience. It's just happens to be about life. You know,
there's nothing special about um a person saying something versus versus an AI saying
something, because, like I said, the meaning comes on the on the
tail, it comes on it's it's the user experience, not the server's experience.
I don't know who wants who has to pick up there. Well,
at the end of the day, when you're pulling all your information from the
same source and all you're doing is sort of jumbling you know, the information
and ideas around to come up with your sermon. An algorithm in a human
being are virtually indistinguishable, especially when you have an AI that it literally is
always learning and it's going to find better ways to put things together. Right.
I think a lot along with what Mallie was saying, AI from the
Christian perspective is potentially the proverbial silver bullet that kills religion, especially once those
sermons start to become completely indistinguishable from something that could have been written by human
being, and you show that the divine nature of whatever the whatever it is
that you think is is the Holy Spirit, the divine nature of the Holy
Spirit that is helping you write these sermons can be replicated, but we've got
to be careful before we call it a silver bullet. Remember, you know,
way back in the day, the Catholic Church used to have illegal to
have a Bible that's not in Latin, right, And that's because the they
didn't want people accessing the information themselves. They wanted to control through their people.
And then you know that changed and now everybody has a Bible and you
know it's it's didn't ruin religion. I think it's pretty safe to say religion
still around after that. And so um, you know, religions is slipping
slippery little concept there, and it can it can find its way, It
can adapt, ironically, can adapt to different situations, and so UM,
I think what we would see is is a new interesting, well maybe not
interesting, but a new adaptive approach to religion. Um. One of the
one of the things that worries me about AI is is that it's good at
pattern matching and so um. And that's something that human beings are are naturally
good at. But but we can't process the amount of data that an AI
can at an instant and so so we're going to see AIS. We already
see it in our our advertising when we're online. You know, it's I
was just talking about that the other day, and you know that kind of
stuff, and so we're going to see that if AI starts taking over our
religions too, it's gonna be here's the exact Jesus quote you're going to need
right at this particular moment, and here's you know, let me throw some
of this information as you're right when you need. It's going to be.
You know, people are can be manipulated in that in that way, and
that's there's cause for concern there. I you know, I hope it's a
silver bullet, but we'll have to see, you know, not everything's vulnerable
to silver bullets. Well, it all depends on how you're going to be
using it too. I think it's kind of interesting to quote here in the
article from a Lutheran pastor, Trevor Sutton, a Trevor Sutton who's explaining that
he has no intention of using AI to write his sermons, but because of
the drop in attendance in physical attendance and the stats that are saying that within
twenty years, like fifteen to twenty percent of physical churches are going to have
to close. Uh, they would like to use it as a tool to
help retain the community. So they're going to try their very best to integrate
it in a way that doesn't allow it to come a silver bullet. That
seems awfully vague. Yeah, let's just use it to make things better,
you know, Yeah, go with that. Yeah, all right. Well,
you know, if you know, at the last Sunday of every month
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