What is krack Alakin hardware Knockulist. There's I am Damn Valley Community without my
fantabulous co host Adam frommel i Am. However, and as always since this
is a reoccurring guest, now super excited to be joined by Andrew Claudio,
who is from Nick's film school, but he is also the co host,
and I need to get this right of final review you can do on Twitter
at Final Review pod spelled exactly as it sounds. It is a podcast,
and I'm reading this from their Twitter bio covering a different all time great film
every week and seeing just how great it actually is. Follow Andrew on Twitter
at Andrew Jay Claudio underscore that's also spelled exactly as it sounds. I like
when I don't have to spell out the Twitter handles. Again, that's the
that's final review. That is the podcast. I'm dead set on getting that
right now. We are going to talk Nick's today. Obviously, this is
the first season you that we're doing the Knicks. We have to start there.
They're my knicks. They got rid of Frankie Lookino, so they're irrelevant,
obviously, but let's start with this podcast. So NBA Twitter at large.
I think fancies itself, particularly during the off season. Cinephiles in general,
at least whenever a movie, a Marvel movie comes out. NBA Twitter
doesn't large. What was the impetus for you to start Final Review? There
you go, and first of all, Dan at First of all, Dan
as always thank you for having me, and I'm looking forward to doing something
I do every day, talk about the Knicks, but final Review. I
used to do a podcast for Overtime Media, the old company that the old
network that John and I were at before we moved over to Blue Wire,
called Final Score, and it was just my generic podcast. Anything I wanted
to talk about I talked about. And one of John's law school buddies I
should clarify John mac Ory, the host of the Knicks Film School podcast.
One of his law school buddies, Bernard Ozrowski, is you talked about fake
centerphiles on NBA Twitter. I will say, fine, fancied centerphiles on NBA
Twitter. Oz actually is, he's like, as we speak, watching seven
hundred movies at the Toronto International Film Festival. In a month, he'll be
at New York, New York's Film Festival. He'll be a tell your ede.
He watches close to four hundred movies a year, and I would have
oz On once a month just talk about movies. And we thought about potentially
teaming up when I was eventually going to end my old show, and we
thought about coming up with a movie concept that was more than just Hey,
another movie podcast. So we looked at the different niche movie pods that are
out there and the formats that are seemed to be successful, and a lot
of it is about going back and looking about movies that we enjoy, explaining
why and critically talking about why these movies are can you're great? And look,
you know this from having a Twitter account and you know, dipping your
toe in the world of social media, like the top five thing works,
So we came up with a format that forces us to do a bunch of
top fives that factors into how great a movie actually is. Now, I'll
now pitch this back to you because this has been my elevator pitch to people.
Dan, tell me one of your favorite movies, just any movie that
you think is really great. Not the all all time rig because that gets
a big difficult for people to narrow it down. But one of your favorite
movies Eddie. Okay, I don't know if that would qualify for a review,
but Eddie, my actual favorite movie of all time is probably Interstellar Interstellar.
Interesting, you're judging me only because I'm not judging only because of how
we I'm surprised you had me on after the way we dismissed Interstellar on The
Dark Knightpie. But it's actually good that you mentioned two movies. So how
in the world would we ever compare Interstellar to Eddie? Right, these are
two different movies. You might think Eddie is better than an Interstellar. Somebody
else might think that Eddie's better than an Interstellar. So what we've decided to
come up with is a ranking system of ten different top five categories. So
let's start with Eddie. Is Eddie a top five Whoopi gold Whoopi Goldberg film?
Is it a top five basketball movie? Is it a top five New
York movie? Is it a top five Frank Glangella movie? Is it a
top five John Sally movie? You know, Like the list goes on,
We go through ten different categories, and if it's like the number one in
a category, it gets five points. If it's number four, then it
gets two points. If it's off the list, obviously get zero. And
your score at the end of all ten categories is the percentile in which it
ends up in the film pantheon. So, for example, Interstellar is obviously
gonna have a high. I'm gonna guess if in my pantheon would have a
higher score than Eddie. So if Eddie has like twenty two out of fifty
and Interstellar has like thirty six out of fifty, interstellars in the seventy second
percentile, which you could say, okay, it's in like the top seventy
two percent of all time great movies. There's only twenty eight great movies better
potentially if you told me it's the twenty eighth greatest movie of all time.
That's the formula, and it's proof of concept that we've seen so far that
we did a movie in the Social Network that I love and it's in my
top twenty all time, And when we went through the concept, it had
eighty percent of the on the pantheon scale, and so on and so forth.
It does not like The Dark Night and it's much lower on his score.
And then when we went to the scale, it proved like okay,
yeah, This is in the bottom twenty two percent of the all time great
movies. And it's not necessarily ranking all the movies. It's ranking all of
the Hall of Fame movies. It's like we went to the basketball Hall of
Fame and we're ranking the Hall of Famers as such. So that's the concept.
We've done three movies so far. We have one hundred and fifty already
planned out into the next couple of years. And you know, we give
you guys a hint. On the end of every episode, we play the
score of what the next week's episode will be. And it's it's a labor
of love. As somebody who does love movies, and I'm paired with somebody
who covers movies for a living, and I think I think your listeners would
really enjoy it. And you tease any things that are planned into the distant
future. So I will say in October we have a couple of horror movies
plans, which makes sense Halloween, when West Side Story comes out, we
might be doing a couple of Spielberg movies. The problem is that we literally
just did a Steven Spielberg movie. He's done a lot of great movies.
Dan Steven Spielberg ever heard of all? Yeah? I know, right?
Is that I know that guy, little known indie act, indie director enough,
so we might do a Spielberg month. We might do a rom com
month during the Oscars. Next year, we're gonna do just Best Picture winners
in for the entire month of the Oscars, and then the night of the
Oscars after it wins, you will then start a week of the Best Picture
winner is what will cover that week. See we have some themed months,
but I mean, look, we're talking about one hundred and fifty of movies
that qualify, which I should say the qualifications are threefold. So you have
to hit two of three checkpoints that I believe actually mattered towards evaluating a movie.
So you have to be successful commercially, so at the box office,
you had to gross at least one hundred million dollars. Critically, so you
had to be at least certified fresh on Rotten Tomatoes, which I think is
like a seventy five eighty percent and up. And then acclaim prestige, so
the industry has to think you're gate. So you have to be nominated for
at least one Academy Award so you hit two of those three checkpoints, you're
eligible for our podcast. That was actually gonna be My next question is how
you determine, like what movies you're actually going to look at before going into
those those details. How are you going to handle new movies? New movies?
So we wanna thankfully we're set for a while, you know, and
like of the recent movies that have come out, we want to objectively not
have a recency bias. So I will say this week, we're doing Quentin
Tarantino's pulp fiction on the pod, and he had a really good movie come
out in twenty nineteen, and I think it's gonna be in my top five
for Quentin Tarantino Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. Rather than do pulp Once
upon a Time in Hollywood on the podcast, will do pulp fiction, which
will give us an excuse to say some thoughts about a new movie. So
it's actually interesting that you also mentioned new movies. That leads to why we
picked each movie each week. So Shang Chi the most recent MCU film.
That week, we did The Dark Night because it's a superhero movie. So
when Top Gun Colin Maverick, the sequel to Top Gun, comes out eventually
that week, will do Top Gun. When the Ghostbusters sequel the I guess
it's technically a remake, although it's technically also a sequel, I guess because
there's been three Ghostbuster sequels, that sounds about right for that franchise. But
when the new Ghostbusters comes out, we will do the original Ghostbusters. Every
movie each week will coincide with an upcoming release, at least, like we
were gonna do a Clint Eastwood movie, but we already had the schedule planned
out for cry Macho, So when he does another ninety minute movie next year,
we'll obviously pick a pick a movie then, but like fourth of July
next year, we'll do either Independence Day or Jaws from May the fourth,
whatever date at episode is close to me. The fourth we will do a
Star Wars episode. So yeah, that's how we decide the new movies.
If anything, help us decide which movie we're gonna talk about each week,
and if something is clear and it catches the zeitgeist, like I will say,
the most recent movie we are doing pretty soon, Avengers Endgame is on
the list. It's the most successful movie ever, so it felt important to
at least address what the MCU has done to the industry, whether that be
positive or negative. So yeah, that's at least how we're gonna handle new
movies. Does there have to be a threshold of time to pass before your
end game? As an example that's been out, was that twenty nineteen?
Is that when that Yeah, two thousand nineteen, are you waiting two years?
Is it a year? Like? If it's like, what is the
necessarily? Not necessarily? So like Moonlight is on our list, there's some
movies. So there's some movies from the twenty tens, I should say that
are on our list. We we have a happy balance of movies in the
twenty tens, movies that go back to the nineteen fifties, potentially part of
the Criterion collection. We did want to stick to like movies we know people
have seen. So right now we're sticking with like one best picture or we're
critically acclaimed that the box office, as well as as at the oscars before
we go to like the hidden gems that a lot of people might not have
seen. You know, yeah, we have no gap on whether or not
people we have no you don't have to. It's not like the Hall of
Fame where you have to wait five years to want to be elisible for our
podcast again, like the obvious ones like Endgame, we're gonna put on the
pod, But Parasite, the Best Picture winner from that year, we might
wait. You know, it's not on the schedule just yet. Yeah,
that's how we're handling that. The three episodes you've done so far as of
this recording are the Social Network, the Dark Night one, which is the
one I listened to that was that was fantastic, The Raiders of the Lost
Raiders of the Lost art excuse me? Was your third episode. I have
seen all of those movies. Yeah, you could tell how you're catering to
the mainstream right now. I guarantee you I've seen pulp fiction I've not seen
once upon a time in Hollywood. Do you there in me? I'm the
worst with movies. I'm just the absolute worst. So I look forward to
learning about movies that I probably won't see and then listening to your podcast.
Is there anything you've run the gamut of these guest spots, anything that no
one has asked you about this podcast or that you haven't talked about this podcast
that you'd like to get off to your chest. And to the thousands of
people that are in rapture right now. This is the moment I want to
add on to what you just said. First of all, that like you,
there's movies you haven't seen, and there are gonna be a lot of
movies we mentioned throughout the episodes that people might not have seen, and a
part of it is that the movies we might discuss they like. So for
the social network, when we talked about are This Dark Night, we talked
about the Christopher Nolan movies. My number one Christopher Nolan movie isn't eligible for
this show. It's called The Prestige Huge. There you go, Huge Jackman.
Well, so a lot of people haven't and a lot of people don't
know the ending to that movie. Huge Jackman. Christian Baiale their magicians and
they're competing to in like early nineteen hundreds to figure to find out who can
have the best magic trick. And it's a wild Christopher Nolan type movie with
a ridiculously great ending with a pretty cool message as well. People might not
have seen that, And so we have a letterbox account that each week we
update with all the movies that were mentioned throughout the pod, which then will
show you where you can find all these movies. So that's at least what
I would say to people. Don't be intimidated if you hear thirty movies throughout
an episode and have no idea like what we're talking about will cover. We'll
mention something about the movie that might not be seen and where you can find
it, and then you know, go to our letterbox. You can find
it there. The only thing I would add, as far as haven't been
asked yet, like the whole spirit of the podcast is not like we're the
authority on what belongs in the Hall of fame, what belongs, what should
be considered great over what isn't. This is all about like subjectivity, like
I'd like other people or objectivity, excuse me. We would like people to
come up with their own scores based off of the concept. So, like
I'll be honest with you, Dan, Interstellar not one of my all time
favorite movies, but like that doesn't mean like it's bad. It just means
that you like a movie more than I do. We want people to come
up with their own panteons, which I think, as in Twitter, hot
take culture has kind of been lost when it comes to movies. It's either
this was great, this was bad, and there's no like. Some people
might like it and sometimes some people don't. I won't share movie opinions,
and just and Interstellar would be a perfe examples. I know people it seems
like a movie you either love or hate. But I think with me,
I'm a sucker. If you throw space or time travel. I'm fascinated with
that stuff. I don't care how many plot holes are in it. That's
just gonna that's going to speak to me on a very profound level. So
best case, best example of this, there was a movie that came out
two years ago called Cats. Have you heard of It's Cats Like it's the
Broadway play. They had the digital They did a CGI version of Cats.
It came out on Christmas in twenty nineteen. It's one of the biggest box
office flops ever. Had a budget of over two hundred million, made like
sixty million at the box office. It was my worst movie of twenty nineteen
when I did my rankings that year. My mom loves that movie. I
was able to like. The easiest Birthday present ever was to get her Cats
on Blu ray and DVD. Like there are very few movies on Rotten Tomatoes
that have a zero, there's something for somebody, and even not even well
okay, I think, I mean, I have to check. I don't
think that has a zero, though, to be honest, Cocktail might have
a zero. And now that I'm thinking about it, the point is there's
an audience for pretty much every movie. Like there's very few movies that have
made zero dollars because nobody liked it. It's probably because it hasn't been seen
and nobody distributed it. And as a result, like I would like it
this podcast to be a portion of the movement that let's just get back to,
Like if you liked it, good for you. I'm glad you enjoyed
it. Like something I learned during the pandemic was like, let people enjoy
things. So when Zack Snyder releases a four hour cut of a movie that
wasn't good and made it still not just like not bad, you know,
I don't have to just rush to hate on the four hour Batman, Superman,
Dawn of whatever, the Snyder cut. I don't have to rush to
go hate on that. I can let people enjoy that movie and be like,
Okay, I'm glad you have that for you and I will never watch
it again. Are you really quickly? Are you rewatching these movies right before
you record? To an extent? So we record every either Tuesday or Wednesday
before pod comes out on Thursday. I watched, so I've already watched pulp
Fiction for next week's pod, and then it sets me up for like a
week of rewatching Tarantino movies. So yes, we rewatched the movies before we
record, but it's one of many movies I'll watch in preparation for the show.
In the vein of hoop idea, here's a podcast idea as someone who
would actually pay for this, there should be a Patreon where based off maybe
I score movies and have my all time great you should be able to pay
to have a Patreon podcast about maybe my top five of all time for you
guys to discuss it. I think people would be okay, might not show
up in your feed. They're not your rankings, they don't go with the
motif and what you guys are running. I'm just saying down the line,
as some I would pay for that. Oh so what all ad Dan is
that every week after we announced the movies, we put our categories up like
obviously not like to in reference to us, but we put during the week
this past week, what are your top five Harrison Ford performances? What are
your top five Steven Spielberg movies? What were your top five movies of the
eighties? You know during Nolan, we could do the same thing for Christopher
Nolan in superhero movies, in Christian Bale and so on and so forth.
So there is participation a loud if you go Final Follow Review, Follow Review,
Final Review Pod, which, by the way, thank you for dropping
the like the Justin Simberlake says in the Social Network, it's not the final
review Todd I said it once before we recording. He yelled at me because
you mentioned I've gone through the gambit of these guest spots. You know how
many people have introduced it as he's the host of the Final Review podcast.
It's just Final Review cleaner. Like the Social Network could be fair, they
might not be attaching the two final review in that scenario, but it's the
final review. That is the name of the podcast. It's Final Review.
You're on Twitter at Final Review pods spelled yeah, exactly as it sounds.
I really enjoyed it. As someone who really only listens to sports podcasts and
you know, choppers in for different ones every once in a while. I
really enjoyed the Dark Night episode. I don't even remember the interstellar comments that
you made. I listen to podcasts on two time speed. For anyone that
that wonders because I'm one point five, so you're not alone. You're good.
I do some on one point five where if someone talks as fast as
I do it, don't even put me on. If anyone listens to me
on one point five speed, you're you're a fucking superhero. But it's a
great podcast, and it's called Final Review. That is the name of the
podcast. I've just gotten it right. I think I have a one hundred
percent hit rate so far on this podcast. I'm going to tell people from
now on, this is the this is Hardwood Knocks. This isn't the Are
you ready to talk some Are you ready to talk about Knicks basketball, not
v Knicks, not Knicks basketball. Yes, let's do it. So we
just did our report cards. I'm full disclosure, not that you care about
this. I was waiting. We normally do them earlier in the off season,
but I was just like between the ship that's going on with Dame and
Ben Simmons. I'm like, these are gonna get so outdated if we put
them out now. Sure enough, we waited too long because nothing's gonna happen
with those guys. But so we did do a deep dive into the Knicks.
Doesn't necessarily want to rehash their off season too much, Which is what
were your general impressions or biggest takeaway, anything that surprised you, disappointed you
about how they they carried themselves, what they did during the off season,
the night of free agency, seeing that this was headed toward like we're running
it back, We're bringing the olans awhile back, Derek Rose is coming back,
Alec Burks is coming back, and the only casualty is gonna be Reggie
Bullock. For Evan Fournier, I was a little concerned. I think the
extensions that have been given out show that they were right to not even play
the let's hoard our cap space in case something comes down the road like we're
the summer twenty nineteen might be the last year like that where all of these
stars are gonna be available and you were gonna everybody attack all at once.
I was a little concerned that, like, okay, maybe they kind of
peaked last season when a lot of things broke right for them, And then
the next day Kemba Walker came and everything kind of fit into place. When
we ended our free agency episode O our live stream, consistently around the panel,
it was like, if we want them to do one more thing,
It's like there's still a gap at point guard. Dark Rose can't play eighty
two games, and Kemba comes in and it obviously the injury concern is there,
but like now he doesn't dark Rose doesn't have to play eighty two games.
Kemma Walker doesn't have to play eighty two games. I everything kind of
falls into place, and like a Douce McBride can now come in and play
a little bit, and Manuel quickly can run point if one of these guys
needs to take some knights off a load management. I'm very satisfied with what
they did this offseason, and in this Eastern Conference where a lot of people
got better, you have to include the Knicks there. It's it's not even
biased to say that it's objectively true. Yeah, I am with you that
they got better. I don't think there are two things that I took issue
with, and the Kemba addition just changes all of it for me because it's
it's zero risk. I don't care that his two years are guaranteed for that
money. We're not far removed from Kemba Walker being in like the top three
point guard in the East. Conversation his knee could be fucked up, which
I think there and everyone I've asked about this, no one really has an
idea. Did Oklahoma City buy him out because they thought they couldn't do the
Al Horford Chris Paul rout with him and reboot his stock because of his knee,
or were they just honestly got afraid he would help them win too many
games. I think there's a there's a school of thought, and no one's
told me for sure that that's not what happened, that it wasn't just about
the knee, and everyone I've asked just doesn't have a concrete answer. So
that's on the table regardless. That's a swing you make ten times out of
ten. I also think the fact that he wanted to come to New York
this time around. I don't care what he said about Kevin Durant and him
in twenty nineteen, the Knicks were not really on Kemba Walker's radar. Then
that shows progress with how they're being perceived around the league. I think that
was big. The two things I actually took issue with I was, I
know Derrick Rose was important to this team. I know he doesn't. You
don't have to rely on him to play that much this year. I'm not
a fan of that contract. It's short term enough where it's not damaging.
I just can't picture Derek or Was having the same type of impact moving forward.
I also want to know the leverage Evan Fourney had to get a third
guaranteed season. That's mostly small stuff. The Derrick Rose move I still oppose,
even when you look at how important you look at the on off splits
last year. They needed Derick Rose. I get it. People said not
the Knicks Film School podcast, which I do listen to, and you can
vouch for that because I texted you once for not liking a trade idea that
I came up with enough one of your listeners acts about remember that. Yeah.
Yeah. People perceived this as like the Knicks playing chess while everyone's playing
check playing checkers. When it came to acquiring that next star, where it's
like, oh, these contracts, these middle ladder contracts are going to help
them acquire that next star in a trade. Okay, No. What the
Knicks did, and they rightly did, which I actually think was the shrewd
move. They decided that the star they get is more likely to come via
trade than free agency. When you look at how this year's class ship shook
out, how next year's class is shaping up, that was the right decision.
None of these contracts actually make it easier for them to acquire that star
because you can use cat space in a blockbuster trade. There are also teams
that if you're if you're the Blazers, let's just say, because the Knicks
have Evan Fournier's salary or Derek Rose's salary or Alec Burk's salary, they don't
have a leg up on anyone. Because a Portland team getting rid of Damian
Lillard, those players aren't necessarily going to matter to them. And I thought
too many people were just saying, like, the Knicks are just well set
up for this more than any other team. I think what the Knicks actually
did and they probably I don't know if they're a step ahead of other teams
in doing this. They just they have an idea of how that next star
is going to come, and that matters. And by signing these contracts two
players that can help you, you're not punting on the intern. You've run
it back, You've invested in what you did last season. You're still kind
of planning for the big picture. But unlike years past where you put all
your chips into Kyrie and Kadi coming that you've hedged, or rather you've innoculated
yourself against coming up completely empty handed. And I feel like that's where the
discrepancy was in how some people interpreted or viewed or evaluated their offseason. I
I own, well, I think that Derrick Ross context is a little better
than you think it is. It's two years at market value and it is
super tradeable. Derk Rose getting forty billion dollars a year after what he did
last year is like, that's market value for what NBA standards are today.
For a perenny what a guy that's gonna be TIBs his motor on a six
man off the bench? Why is that a bad contract? Fifty games in
a seventy two games season, so playing two thirds of the season basically like
that, but he didn't miss because of like a Derrick Rose type injury he
got COVID. You know, didn't have shoulder stuff going on to last year.
Not with the Knicks. He didn't. With he might have missed a
game or two with like a nagging injury, which you're gonna expect that with
Derrick Rose, his bad injury where he missed significant time is like anybody could
catch that, So any contract you could apply that type of risk too well.
I think as like when they originally signed it, I was like,
it's a good value, but like I don't want him to be the starter
now, like you're not putting as many my on Derrick Rose, which is
why you set it to start. The KEMBA piece of this changed everything about
this off season. Now I'm not as worried about, like Evan Fournier being
the only big pickup. I'm not as worried about running it back and peaking
as a four seed. Like they might still win the same amount of games
next year or close to the same win percentage and be a six seed,
but it still might be the Knicks got better, which I think will matter
when they go star hunting. And try to make that sign and trade or
that mid season trade, because you're not doing it from the lottery, you're
doing it from the bottom of the playoffs. Yeah, I think. I
mean, we'll get into this. We're talking about the yard players. Growth
isn't linear, especially in the East, and especially for the Knicks. They
can win. They you could tell me they're a playing team and lose,
but that they still show in progress depending on how much they emphasize youth,
Obi Toppin, RJ Barrett all that. But so Kemba specifically, let's just
assume he's healthy. Do you view him as a seamless fit or do you
think there could be some onset awkward just due to how it displaces Julius Rayndold
from the ball after he had by necessity, of course, like Carte Blanc
in their offense because they needed him too, Like they needed Julius Raynold hit
every single one of those difficult jumpers that he hit last season. Not oh
this is cool, They absolutely needed him to hit those shots. You're not
wrong, and it came back to bite him in the ass in the playoffs,
which is where Kembo is your seamless fit And look like I've talked about
this guy entirely too much for my own good and probably for his own good.
But the Knicks upgrading from Alfred Peyton is so significant, and going from
Alfred Peyton to Kemba Walker. Dude, if they went from Alfred Payton to
me, I don't think it would be that bad of a drop off,
which, like I get it, I'm a podcast I'm not an NBA player.
I also was not as detrimental to the Knicks last year as Alfred Payton
was. Also, I've seen you would have hit more three point wide open
thing. That is fair. You see me on the on the you've seen
me in pickup. I can shoot better from three than Alford faith Although,
again a podcaster not an NBA player, I get it. The point being
he was so bad to what the Knicks were trying to do with like Randall
had to run the offense the way he did. RJ. Barrett became such
a good offball threat last year, and his point guard wasn't finding him when
he's wide open in the corner, after he's driving, after he's drawing the
double team, and it was only when the Emmanuel quicklies or the Derrick roses
were on the court and honor making your the defense, like be faithful to
the point guard that he might pitch, he might drive. There's options here,
which is what Kemba will be able to do well if he's healthy,
obviously, And yeah, seamless fit is the thing. I don't think if
he does the Alfred Peyton thing and just takes some pressure off of Julius Randall
and look like Evan Fourny is gonna come up on this pott, I'm assuming.
But what they're gonna be able to do now that it's not just Reggie
Bullocks shooting, it's not just him as a jump shooter, and you have
a guy that can create his own shot will take some of those miles off
of off of Julius. I'm expecting them to not need like sixty five great
Julius Randall games, but forty five great Julius Randall's games and a couple of
Kemba games and a couple of Derrick Rows games. And I'm assuming we're gonna
talk about the potential of an RJ. Barrett game here and there. So
yes, Kemba, I think it literally shifted everything down into its proper place.
Similar to like you a baseball fan at all, Dan, God,
No, God, No, Okay, just real quick example. A couple
of years, six years ago, the Mets were decent. I'm a Mets
fan. They were clearly missing that one big bat in their lineup, and
they had like a guy that should be hitting third hitting second, a guy
that's hitting sixth hitting fourth. Then they traded for a guy named Joanna Cespitus,
and everything fell in line. Now the guy that's hitting fifth can hit
fifth. Now the guy that's hitting seventh can hit seventh, and so on
and so forth. Kembas shifted everything down. Now Derek Rose can be the
backup. Now Julius doesn't have to be the only person that can create offense
in the starting lineup. And I really think it's gonna work out for them.
And I had written about this not to plug myself when they first got
Kemba, about the importance of him nudging the pecking order down what he's also
shown. But I actually don't think people have talked enough about is even in
Charlotte when he never had the ability to, but more so in Boston,
which is why when he was healthy he emerged as a better fit than Kyrie.
It was within the ecosystem where Jason Tatum and Jalen Brown their development,
Their success felt more organic, like it wasn't happening in spite of Kyrie or
against the grain of a Kyrie Erivan game. He is going to you.
He doesn't need to be in isolation, and he can hit spot up threes
like he is fine, and teams have to respect him because he's hit a
high clip of his spot up threes over the last half decade. And like
you said, just nudging the pecking order down is absolutely huge for them.
What I still do think is big and of everything they did to me,
and you're you're a free to obviously say if you disagree or if I'm flat
out wrong. The biggest double down that they made on this roster was the
Julius Randall extension, because if Julius Randall pans out, if what you said
is, Julius Randall is more second team All MBA than the guy in twenty
nineteen who could didn't even have the leverage to get three guarantee years from the
Knicks, which is a fine gamble to make. It's happened after one season,
and if he does pan out, if you're right on that, not
only do you have him for the foreseeable future, you have him on an
extension that even if all the incentives hit, it's a bargain relative to the
player that he is. What do you want, How do you see his
offensive game fitting within a broader ecosystem where there's more guys who can operate with
the ball, and to what gives you confidence? Because I know how you
feel about him, that last year was not closer to an anomaly than not.
You can quibble over whether he should have been second Team All MBA,
third Team All MBA, or missed. If the way I framed it was
if there was a fourth All NBA team and Julius Randall was left off of
it, that would have been a monster snub based off the season yp I
think a lot of spots at All NBA can be interchangeable. The fact that
positions are still involved this is so fucking stupid. So but just to play
the groundwork around coming from there, what gives you confidence that last year was
more so a glimpse of what's to come or the player he's actually developed into.
Well, because there was I hate to go back to twenty nineteen twenty
twenty, the first year of Julius Randall. There were glimpses that he did
look good when he was going downhill, that when you got him in situations
where he wasn't just getting the ball on the wing, and you got him
in movements like there's a productive player. If you go look at his game
stats, his box scores. After they fired Fitzdale and went to Mike Miller,
there's like this six games stretch we were scoring thirty three a game,
and it was like, this could be a thing if Julius Randall learns how
to do this instantly. I will say this because Nick Fan seemed to be
afraid to say it. I have concerns about the three point shooting, But
then you look at how hard he works and the like mini press tour he
did in the middle of the season where he went on JJ Reddick's pod and
Woag's pod and was on like the Jump, and all of a sudden,
Julius Randall's like a guy that is campaigning for how hard he likes to work
out in the off season. This is a guy that has transformed his body.
He went and complained to his agent and his college coach that he didn't
like his situation with the Knicks, and then his agent and his college coach
went and ran the Knicks. So this is now a situation where they've uprooted
their lives from CIA in Kentucky and built it around Julius Randall, and he
seems determined to now like pay it forward, to pay it back. You've
put this trust in me, I'm gonna now return the favor. There's a
leadership quality I don't even mentioned, like the stats part of it, where
he, yeah, had one of the best seasons in NBA, his like
arguably one of the best seasons for his position. Like Simmons, I know,
went down the whole thing of how close to Barkley he was. Like
the splits, the twenty four, ten and six splits that he had last
year. Only two people have ever done that, and it with on forty
percent three point shooting, and it's Larry Bird and Nikolayokits. Yeah, I'm
I'm a big believer in the fact that what we saw last year was always
there. He just needed the right people around him, the right coach to
pull it out of him. And now that he doesn't have to play every
minute of every game, they're gonna be like, I can't say this enough,
Like they're gonna have games where they're not like stressed down the stretch.
They it's a close game. We have to put Julius Randall back in up
by twenty because Obie topping camp play no, Like there are other guys that
can run the offense for ten minutes at a time, and Julius can not
necessarily coast, but doesn't have to have so much tension on on whether he
had a good game or not. And we won't be dissecting these five games
that happened in the playoffs like it's any type of a sample size. Yeah,
And I actually think my larger concern with him probably before least seasons because
you saw New Orleans too. If you put the ball in his hands and
you give him real agency, he can make plays pass to others that like
you said, the three point shooting was new, he did shoot the three
point number that I'd been most concerned about, and it wasn't a huge percentage
of his threes. He shot forty one point five percent on step back threes
last year. He hit more step back threes than he did in all of
his previous seasons combined. That being said, that's a common shot now and
it's not far fetched to believe that he worked on that. I've actually always
been more interested in, well, how can he be as part of a
larger or broader dynamic where there are other people that are going to have the
ball a lot, And I was encouraged he hit a higher percentage. And
most most players do do this, but there are guys who are hardwired differently,
and I think before last season he was one of them. They shoot
better on off the dribble threes than they do on catch and shoot threes.
Julius Randold did not he shot. I think it was like forty two percent
on spot up threes, and that there's other stuff involved. We're playing off
others, but that shot is huge if you're playing next to a Derrick Rose,
a Kemba Walker, even you know Alec Burke's Evan Fournier. That gives
me encouragement that he can actually still be really impactful despite not maybe having as
high of a let's say, a true usage like where it's not where he
had if his touch time is impacted by the players around him, and so
I think he's more likely to fit into that type of a mold than he
was before. And then you talk about all he did on the ball last
year, Okay, that's great. They all some don't need him to do
that. So it's like it doesn't even matter if there's some regression there because
they have all these contingencies or maybe even players. If Kemba Walker's healthy,
I'm gonna want the ball and Kemba Walker's hands down the stretch of a game
more so than a Juliet if it's if it's Kemba of Old, which it
probably is not, but if it is. But to that point, they
had this nine game winning streak in April which got a lot of us a
little delusional about maybe we could beat the Bucks, you know, and like
what you saw down the stretch was options down, Like in the fourth quarter
was okay, r J can take over for a little bit, Julius can
take over for a little bit, Derek Rose can break down the defense and
find Alc Burks Alc Burks or Reggie. Alc Burks said these heat checks where
it's like, Okay, I'm going for twenty seven tonight, and it's all
gonna be in the second half. You know. Statistically speaking, I wrote
something where I was looking at the level of difficulty on players crunch time shots
versus efficiency. He graded out as one of the ten most efficient efficient crunch
time players in basketball this year. ALC Birks, that's just absolutely why but
please continue. If there was anything else you had to finish, No,
it's just like there you saw when you had other options that it made things
easier for Julius. I really think the way last season, which if the
Nicks losing seven and Julius has a great series against the Hawks, were not
even talking about any concerns about Julius Randall duplicating what he did last year.
It's literally just that they ran out of steam, because you do that when
you're playing every second of every game and it's close and you don't have other
options. You're the only primary creator on your team. And now they've added
multiple ones, and not to mention the other younger players that could get better
to take some of that pressure off. Yeah, I've I'm on board with
many Knicks fans obviously to believe that what we saw with Julius Randall was more
the beginning rather than a flash in the pan. And it's certainly fair to
be worried about his playoff performance, But I tend to think that we read
too much into those tiny samples, and that when it's over this extended period
of time, if he's your best player and you're hitting a wall, that's
where you have to start asking yourself the more difficult questions. And it's Look,
it's with Evan Fournier, who I think has largely I mean, you
look at his numbers in the playoffs, Like, I just think he's been
unspectacular in the postseason and he's played It's only been nineteen postseason game games,
but it says a lot that a lot of the teams that relied on him
a ton have just been bounced in the first round. And so like this
was the first year of Julius Randall being this Julius Randall and then in the
postseason and like you said, there were other factors being gassed the town around
him. I'm just not inclined to, Yes, the Hawks were the better
team in that series. I just can't take anything too sweeping away from that
five game sample size of his stingo. Yeah, I mean we talked about
the last time I'm here. I hate using small sample sizes to make general
conclusions, like the Ben Simmons arguing that we don't have to talk about on
this pod, but like there's a good regular season player there. I what
happened in the playoffs is alarming if you're trying to win a championship, But
a team that just wants to be a good regular season team should take a
shot at him. With Randall, like it wasn't even just that he had
a bad series, like RJ Barrett had a bad series, Reggie Bullock had
a bad series, Alec Burks had one good game and then had a bad
series. Like collectively, everybody was bad. So even when Julius like made
a good pass ran everybody was missing too. I it's like you mentioned Devin
forty in his bad playoff performances, Like yes, he was getting bounced because
they were the seventh of the eighth seed every year. I think now that
they're going to be coming at it from potentially a five or a sixth seed,
you might see this team maker run. You never know the middle class
of the East, like there's Brooklyn, Milwaukee, and then I don't know
that there's a team that's going to distinguish themselves like from that, there's like
an eight to eleven team pack that could be talked into. There was a
twenty seventeen twenty sixteen where all from three through six they all finished forty eight
and thirty four. Yeah, it was like all they all had the saint.
It was like Charlotte, Indiana, Toronto, and Miami all finished with
the same record, right. I think that was twenty seventeen, maybe twenty
eighteen. I think it was two thousand and seventeen. Though, one of
a podcast mid season, you and John decided to slum it. I went
on there and I said, I still think that RJ. Barrett is the
Knicks' most important player long term. There's probably more of an argument than before
for Julius Randall after giving him the extension. I am still of the mind
that RJ. Barrett is this team's most important player long term because of all
that he either represents as either a co star or do you think he might
have a higher ceiling than what Julius Randall is going to have at his and
what he's doing regardless, do you think there's a chance that we saw him
hit a bunch of set three pointers last year, which was phenomenal development for
him. There were times and it felt like there's no science based from this
my perspective. When he attacked early in games, he could really put pressure
on defenses, they would react, He'd make good decisions. He's shown that
he can kind of finish in those instances. You'd like to see him.
I think the biggest thing among others, though, will he develop an off
the dribble jumper. My twofold question is do you have faith based off what
you've seen, whether it's shots he's taken, the cadence of his game,
that he can get there. And this might be the more important effect of
this question. Do you think he even gets the opportunity to augment his offensive
game given the way that this team is now built because there are so many
players Derrick Rose, Kemba Walker, Julius Randold, Evan Fournier, even Alec
Burks and Manuel Quickly though I would put them on a boar tier of importance
clearly then or j Barretley offense. I think you could make a case that
the Knicks might opt to not feature him on the ball all that much,
just based off the personnel they've surrounded him with. So it's interesting you bring
that up, because I think RJ. Barrett's gonna turn into the New franc
where he's just so polarizing amongst the fan base where you can't just you have
to either project that he's gonna be a future Hall of Famer and gonna make
the All NBA team this year, or you have to say he sucks.
We blew it at number three, why didn't we get jaw And you can't
just have like a reasonable but like balanced take of I think you could be
the second or third best team on a team that goes to the best player
on a team that goes like deep in the playoffs, and this year,
like you could argue at points of last year, I should say that he
was their third best player behind Julius and Derrick Rose, that RJ at at
Spurts was like a reliable jump shooter, but with some issues that he had
a finishing at the rim and creating his own shot, you turn to guys
that were better at it to do. So what I will say is if
he just has like the same season he had last year, but finishes better
at the rim like five percent, and it's just like four points better a
game, you're looking at a guy that's averaging twenty one a game, and
that's just like again five percent, like hit two more of these layups because
he gets to the rim. Fine, he's not getting contact yet because he's
twenty years old and he's not going to get the respectrum officials that you get
when you're older. But like, he is getting to the rim with ease.
It's the fact that he's not finishing that's the problem. That's might be
they need him to do next year because like you said, they have Kenda,
they have Derek Ross, they brought in Fourny. They might need not
need RJ to carry the load as much as the second or third best player.
I will say, though, like if those absolutist Knicks fans are right
and he does show up and like he's creating his own shot and this is
twenty seventeen Jimmy Butler, then maybe like this is a thing where RJ.
Barrett is being considered for All Star teams and is the favorite for most improved
player, and it's a good problem to have. If RJ. Barrett shows
up and has more tricks in his bag, which I think as of right
now, if he's just the same player as last year, but finishes at
the rim better. That's fine, and I can talk myself into him even
taking a few steps up like he did last year. I guess the thing
for me is I would be more concerned with I actually think there's a really
I think there's going to be a very good sort of point wing in there,
watching the cadence of his game, looking at table setting for others.
I'm more concerned with the opportunity where you mentioned, oh, if he's finishing
at the rim better, that's a twenty plus point per game score or the
same level of shot opportunity is going to be there. I'm just so fascinated
to see how they use him within the offense there worthy I fell in love
with very small sample size, but like the RJ. Barrett plus non starters
units just destroyed so and I thought that was Yeah, Derek Ross is on
the court for some of those, but you also had like Taj Gibson and
frank Nie Lachena in some of those minutes, and so RJ. Barrett had
more responsibility there, and so I think that's encouraging. But I do come
back to a sub thirty five effective field goal percentage on pull up jumpers.
I want him to be able to work through the volume on that because I
do think off the dribble jumpers are probably the most important shot in basketball right
now. And if you want him to be you know, Jimmy Butler's not
shooting will on pull ups right now. But if you want him to be
this upper echelon all NBA candidate long term, I think it's a shot that
he's really gonna have to hit. And I don't know one way or the
other. I just don't have a if I had to pick, I wouldn't
be able to tell you whether I think he gets there. I'm more concerned
with is the opportunity for him to even try and develop that shot going to
be there? As the Knicks are presently constituted. Well, so we open
this pot somewhat, We'll open the Knicks discussion of like the health aspect is
there. I mean, the bigger question I have is the opportunity might come
in those load management games. And I wonder if the Knicks are if Tips
is gonna let them have load management games, you know, is he gonna
be like, Okay, we need to watch. I think we know the
answer to that question. I know the answer. I'm hopeful that somebody's in
his ear, like you don't need to. We were doing we do this
game now called I Know the Knicks because it's the off season and we're just
coming up with content ideas. And when we were doing trivia, we were
talking about games the Knicks one by fifteen. Can you name all the games
the Knicks one by fifteen? Who the opponents were? And there's this Pistons
game last year where they're up by thirty six and the fourth quarter and Julius
Randall's in playing minutes thirty six and thirty seven, and it's like, what
are you doing? And it's it's it's why. I hope that there's somebody
above him that is like, hey, we've now given you some reinforcements,
Like we're now gonna like spread the ball a bit a little bit more,
spread the spread the wealth a little bit more. I think r J if
he takes the step that people think you a which look, imagine having this
conversation like a year and a half ago, and how much work we thought
he needed to do, how broken of a jump shot he seemed to have.
Now, look at what we're talking about can he like, can he
have the opportunity to flourish because what's around him has gotten better and he still
has shown signs to be a productive NBA starter. It's a good problem to
have, is what I'll say. I like the idea that they're going to
be multiple options rather than it. We're kind of fucked if RJ. Barrett
isn't good next year. And I mean, look, they needed they really
leaned into shock. Creation was sort of segue to my next topic. I
don't know that you could have leaned too far into it, but I look
back at their off season. They were fourth in points allowed per possession defensively
outside of garbage time. Last year they had basically not basically they had the
best three point defense in the NBA. There is nick fense. We've gotten
mad at me when I said this, there's always luck kicked into that.
I actually do think there was a rhyme or reason to how they were covering
three point shooters who they were letting or I don't want to say letting,
but coaxing into three point shooters. I think RT Barrett was actually a big
part of that because of how well his off ball defense improved. You did
lose your most important wing defender from last season in Reggie Bullock. I find
myself wondering based off the amount of cap space they had left. It felt
like the Kenvas stuff was in the ether, and so I'm like, did
you need Alec Burks instead of Bullock or couldn't you? And I mathematically I
didn't think too deeply into this, like couldn't you have just dumped Kevin Knox
to hold Reggie blocks happold and pay him because he's I don't think he's the
difference between the Nicks winning the title, but he was your most important perimeter
defender. Now that shifts to is it RJ? Barrett? And that's my
question for him. Is he? And I think you and I've actually talked
about this. He made strides defensively last year and especially off the ball.
He was just active. My concern would lie with because he's not a point
guard, so you're just not by virtue of not being a point guard,
you're not guarding these number one options a ton, and then you had Reggie
Bullock, who they would be more apt to throw on the number one option.
He didn't spend a ton of time guarding on ball against these really lethal
threats, and I think he's going to have to Now if you disagree,
that's totally fine. But is he suddenly their most important perimeter defender on this
team? And is that a shaky proposition for the team that finished fourth and
points per possession last year? Allow, So what I'll say is that,
well, obviously he's When you go from Regie Book to Evan Fournier, you're
clearly conceding some defense. And I think, do you think you know?
I think what we saw is like the Knicks saw. I'm sure you're gonna
make me preview the eulogy of Frank Nilkina at one point, and it's frustrating
that Frank didn't get options, get get a chance to play under tips as
much as we thought he could in a Tips system. But what the Knicks
problem was the biggest problem they had last year while holding teams under one hundred
points was their specialty. They also didn't score one hundred points that much at
all. So I think even if r J is their primary like defender going
forward and shows the ability to do so, which is like again progress toward
how hard he works and how much he works on that aspect of his game,
Like, I'm okay with them conceding being the fourth best defense and being
like the seventh or eighth best defense, so that they're not the twenty fifth
best offense instead, you know that it's more of a balance. And look,
I I don't want to give TIBs like magic powers, but I'm also
like what we saw from not just r J and Reggie Bullock, but like
the whole team defended at a at a level and in a way that I've
never seen them, any of them watching them. Watched Julius Randall a year
or two years ago, watched Julius Randall last year, and you'll see the
if there's a Tibbs, that's the evidence. Yeah, Like I didn't even
argue like they lost their best defensive player midway through the year like twice,
like Mitchell Robinson and what he can do with his rim protection I thought was
important. And then going to Newland's Noel which a lot of nice block shots,
but like we saw him exposed a bit during the playoffs where it's like
if you just have a guy that he was so good defensively during the regular
season, he was ground, he was covering and picking rolls, However,
what Mitch can cover I think is even better. And then with miss Hugable,
he is Huggable. Anarchy is how I've referred to him on defense.
I love I love watching Mitchell Robinson because it's wonder if anarchy is as accomplished
as a compliment or not. But Huggle was preceded so because he's not always
going to make the right decision. There's stuff that's gonna turn out poorly,
but the amount of ground he can cover, it just almost doesn't matter.
Do you think r J has that in him? Though? To be that?
I don't even want to come a point of attack defender because I just
don't think they use him as that. I mean, maybe they have to
because Derrick Rose and Kimbo and Emmanuel something. I think we're gonna find out,
I'll tell you that much, you know, do you think he has
that in him based off what you've seen? To be honest, I'm not
sure. What we saw from the team last year was way more team effort
on defense. It's a collective effort to hold the other team to eighty five
ninety points a night. And whether r J, like I'm more confident in
him defensively than I was a year ago, than anything else, I hope,
Which is like the biggest thing I could say about r J. If
there's any confidence you have in him being able to do it, it's that
he seems to be that type of gin rat workhorse that if they're asking him
to do it, he's going to figure out a way to do it.
You know, we'll see. I mean, he's shown I'm more confident in
him being able to do it than I am and him not being able to
do it. Is that a cop out of an answer? No, I
think it's I honestly just don't have a feel my guests would be next season
specifically would just be no. But the improvement that he made from year one
to year two, and I just don't even know how much of that is.
Oh, David Fizdale is no longer in the building type deal, But
jeez, is it was I that was? I think? I know Julius
Rando was so great, but the RJ. Barrett defensive development was like a
revelation for me. And so I wouldn't rule it out. And I would
never have said that. You wouldn't have said that with him coming out of
Duke You wouldn't have said it at any point during his rookie season, So
there's a compliment. There's one other factor to this because I I mentioned Tim
Murretty, but we were campaigned all throughout last season about number six that Alfred
Payton is their best on ball defender. My favorite game of last season,
which tells you, as we love Clyde and all the Clyde isms and the
posting and toasting and the social and dissing. He opens up the Knicks game
against the Nets saying, I don't get why Alfred Payton has all of this
slander against him. He's their best on ball defender and he's got Kyrie as
an assignment tonight and Gyri goes out and scores thirty seven points in three quarters
like there was nothing, if anything. The Knicks were surviving despite how bad
Alfred Peyton was defensively. So even if Kemba is just as bad as Alfred
defensively, then maybe they can survive with r J taking a step up,
like you're suggesting the one thing I'm gonna say, and maybe maybe this is
common knowledge or not. Kema Walker tries so goddamn hard on defense, Maybe
not so much last season when he was playing. But there's a chance he's
an upgrade over Alfred. But like that's the bar is. He doesn't need
to be in as awesome. But like the bar is there, if the
bars Alfred Peyton, he's already surpassed it by not being Elfred Peyton. He's
already just just blown it away. Yeah, the the RJ Barrett. I
got to talk about RJ Barrett for days because I think he's one of the
most just polarizing players in the NBA. He might be when you're looking at
sort of the the sub twenty five non superstars, he might be just be
one of the most important prospects in the NBA when you look at what the
Knixer are trying to do. All I ask is I want to see RJ
Barrett lineups independent of I want to see RJ plus very heavy bench units because
I want him to get that opportunity. So how much do you think Amnue
will quickly's role? This would be another player is going to be impacted by
what they've done. This it's like a it's a repetitive question, but we're
talking about RJ. Barrett being nudged down in the pecking order Emmanuel Quickly is
playing time definitely for rookie under tips was steady, but they were just like
moments where it was maybe Manuel Quickly should play more. What do you what
he based off what he's showed in summer league. I don't want to read
too much into summer league. I'm like, no, just play Emmanuel Quickly
all the time now. But yeah, how do you think his role is
impacted by the off season additions that they've made. So there's two ways.
One is that I think they've made it clear they don't think he's the point
guard of the future whatever that means, like whether which that's how you know
what took it out of my mouth, like it's whether that's because Dame is
the point guard of the future or not. They don't see Emmanuel Quickly as
a guy that's gonna like run your offense. It might be a scoring point
guard like the new version of like a Kyrie or a Dame, or a
guy that's not necessarily a pass And obviously I'm not saying Emmanuel Quickly is Kyrir
Dame. But look at what Brooklyn's done with Kyrie. They turned him into
a two guard that can also like be your primarily ballhand primary ballhand, and
Cleveland did that too when Lebron was there, So like that's like it's evidently
doable. Yeah, even if you want to say, like Sexton Garland is
a better comp for that, where those are two guys that could technically be
considered point guards and they could also be considered two guards because of how dynamic
they can be Offensively, I look at Quickly and I see him way more
as like a two guard that can run your offense from time to time or
create for other people from time to time, rather than like your typical like
I'm running point and running the offense and calling plays and running sets through me.
And look what we saw in Summer League was we want to see if
you can do it, and there were spurts where he could and then there
were a couple two for fourteen games. I am way more of the four
now. Emmaneo. Quickly's best role is like being the sixth Man of the
Year candidate right behind Derrick Rose, Like if you're gonna be on the court
with Derek because we saw it work so well last year, where you're playing
off Derrick Rose, and then they defenses have to honor both of you,
both your three point shot and your ability to penetrate. That makes the second
unit so much better and the weapon that the Knicks had last year. And
I'm not going to mention number six again, but like when the second unit
came in in the second quarter, the Knicks were building these leads and then
they disappear once a third quarter started. I see that now being even stronger
of a weapon next season because Emmanuel Quickly is gonna have more opportunity. Look,
the load management thing, even if it is didn't like they tips finds
religion and thinks, oh, playing players this much is in a good thing,
Say Derrick Rose and Kem Walker do miss time. You now have Emmanuel
Quickly to step up and play a couple of games. Is your backup point
guard play a couple of games as your starting point guard? And it's not
too much of a drop book because he did show a lot last year.
You know. Yeah, the Knicks were a plus sixteen point five points per
one hundred possessions outside of a garbage time Whenmmanuel Quickly and Derrick Rose played together
in those second that I hope still remains a staple where they don't try out
think it like, you know what, we're gonna use Evan Fournier as the
amount. It's gonna be Derek Rose and Evan Fournier, and we're still gonna
use alc. Berks instead of Quickly, just because Quickly as a sophomore.
By the way, when you insert RJ. Barrett into that little dynamic,
they were just annihilating opponents. Sample size is smaller. They were annihilating opponents,
that's the thing. How many minutes was it? It was I think
it was like three hundred possessions or something like that, so not huge.
But the Quickly Rose has a real sample, it's like nine hundred possessions.
Derek Ros availability because of COVID sort of eaked into that. But I'm hoping
that partnership or at least that dynamic. Maybe it's not there. If you
want it to be Kemba and Manuel Quickly, fine, but that dynamic seems
like it's best for him. When you look at the the Obi toppin now,
is he gonna get more consistent run this year? And there's an argument
for it because during the latter portion of the season he looked like an NBA
player, which was a dramatic improvement from what he looked like during the first
portion of the season. However, you go into Nolan's Noel is back,
Mitchell Robinson is healthy, they brought Tash Gibson. Do you think he's gonna
be sort of shoehorned into this call him a depth piece type role where he's
just not guaranteed playing time, or if he's getting it, how are they
doing it? Is it because they've decided, you know what, we've leaned
so much into offense, we're gonna play like Obi Topping and Julius Randall together
in the front court. I wanted them to do that, but because you
brought back Taj and Noel, it's clear that you're not. What is the
path to him actually getting playing time? Is it just an injury to somebody's
you said, Julius Randall gets hurt and it's unfortunate, Because this is the
biggest argument John and I have consistently is that he thinks that he was very
against any Obie Topping trade for com Sexton. When that that one week when
there was a rumor that I think it was more floated out by Tom Sexton's
agent or by the Calves just to see what the reaction would be if Town
sexons for Obie Kevin Knox nineteen and twenty one was the package, and it's
like, yeah, if we're trading our backup for behind the guy that just
signed, it's gonna sign a four year extension Kevin Knox, who is the
fourteenth man on the roster right now, and then the nineteenth and twenty first
pick, which I mean, I like what they ended up doing, went
to draft, but if you get a proven guy, that what That's where
I guess we're gonna disagree on that. I was finally just not, please
carry on with what you're saying, so well, come back to that in
a second. I I thought that trading Obie. I think Obie Topping is
tradeable, especially if Julius Randall replicates the stamina that he had last year,
Like he can play thirty five minutes a game if he doesn't have to find
but that doesn't mean will be Topp and then gets to play twenty minutes a
game next year. The path to Obi toppin playing next year is Julius Randall
gets hurt, and then if he gets hurt, I don't know how much
that hurts the team. I don't think Albie Topping steps in and then like,
oh, we're good. We have Obie Topping. I think he's a
solid backup four. And if he was on a good team, if he
was on another team being a starter like on, if he was on the
Calves and we saw what it looked like and they didn't draft Evan mobile Man,
maybe that would be different. But I don't TIB's really values rim protection,
and that's why there's three centers in the way of Obi playing the five
or even Randall playing the five in those small ball lineups. I don't see
the Knicks going to an under Tom Thibodeau, which I want to clarify,
I don't see the Knicks while Tom Thibodeaux is the head coach ever, consistently
going to a lineup or Obie Topping and Julius Randall are playing at the same
time, which as a result criminal And that's the thing. I'm with you.
I'm with John. I'm like, I hear the argument. I'd love
to see it. I'm just here in the real world where Tom Thibodeau is
the head coach, like he will go call Joe Kim Noah and see if
he's willing to play if Mitchell Robinson, Newland's Noel and Todd Gibson get hurt.
Like he was like, listen, I need somebody that's a center,
not someone that we can shoehorn into a center. And look, the rim
protection is important because of what has happened to the perimeter defensive packing winner this
offseason. So I get that. But before they had resigned Tosh Gibson,
I was like, you know, maybe they're actually gonna play Obie Toppin as
the as a backup pig, like maybe he will be the fourth big,
which is there's a path two minutes if you're the fourth big on the team.
He's not. He's the fifth now. And so I would agree with
everything you said there. I that's where it gets tough with the Knicks,
given what they've done. I in all thought their offseason was like B plus
A minus territory if we were throwing a grade to it. But you lose
some of the focus on development with the decisions that they made, which we
were talking about maybe a quickly or an Obi Toppin, and you still to
me, whether it's for a future trade package, there is a building block
you need to know what Obi Toppin is, and that's you can't argue against
what the Knicks did this offseason. I don't think there's anything they did that
was actually bad that you can say, no, they shouldn't have done it.
But there's that disappointing element of I want to see more of Obi Toppin
to just get a feel for the player that he could be in the NBA,
and it doesn't feel like we're gonna get that chance, at least not
right now. So what I'll say is that, look, if the superstar
trade is gonna happen, the way they happen is like the superstar says,
I want to go to that team, and it doesn't matter if the Knicks
play at Obi Topping minutes or not, like Obie Topping will be in said
trade, like his development has very little to do with whether one of those
big trades will happen as far as development is concerned. I really think this
is gonna sound like a knock on Obie, but I think it's more of
it's more of my confidence in his ability to be the backup and the lineup
that he played in against the second units down the stretch last year showed his
growth and ability. I think the less less is more for him. I
think if you see him in that sixteen to eighteen minute role, which look
I'd like to see Julius Randall play. It's weird to say this this way,
but like not be forced to play thirty five thirty seven minutes a night,
so oh we can play more. But I don't. I just I'm
realistic about what we saw last year. I think they know that Obi,
I don't. I don't think they would believe that Obi wasn't the right picket
eighth. I think Julius Randall becoming what he became changed everything and as a
result, they're always going to focus on the better option at the four.
But look, maybe maybe there's here's your case for him playing at the five.
Timms was always much maligned for like his teams don't shoot threes, his
teams are like offensively challenged, and then last year the Knicks suddenly we're like,
hey, we're gonna start shooting more threes, and Timbs was talking about
like, yeah, I've got these guys given me charts and stats and all
these other cute things, and like dismissing all the brock Alers out there,
and like all of a sudden, the Knicks became a very efficient three point
shooting team. Maybe somebody says to him, hey, like we need to
try like going small, or when teams have like a center that isn't gonna
be as it's going to be more of a perimeter threat. Maybe we should
try it some time to time. Maybe that person that got tips to get
the team to shoot more threes can convince Tips to go small. I just
don't see it. I don't know either, and that would be the case
because I don't think they took enough three pointers. They were twenty ninth and
above the break three point frequency and they're like twenty second overall, which for
a team that was shooting so well on threes and you were twenty fifth in
offense. That's how you bridge some of those gaps is it doesn't always work.
But if you up your three point volume, there's a higher variance in
the misses, but there's probably there's a higher variance in your makes. And
so I will say the volume is the volume is what it is because of
the pace though, right, because they were just like the slowest team so
as it was, it's not even so much that they weren't taking as many
threes. It's like they were so slow that they took as many as they
could at a certain point. Right, well, I'm looking at it.
They were twenty ninth and above the bray threes as a percentage of their shots.
Okay, so it's not even a pasting. It's like, so do
you want to know what's funny? I would probably guess they were thirtieth before
a certain point, So before Tim's got handed that piece of paper and then
he was like, oh all right, sure looks like hitting war threes and
for that much. You know, look, he couldn't have if they would
have been Washington was thirtieth and they had Russell Westbrook on their team and like
that. It's a lot of that. So yeah, if they would have
been thirtieth, but yeah, that would be the path. I don't think
it's gonna happen. I agree with everything you said on that and the jewel.
The thing that I agree with and I've thought about, but you voiced
it was they clearly you don't take Obie topping. If you thought Julius Randall
was gonna do what he was gonna do this year, bro, nobody wanted
Julius Randall a year ago. That's the craziest part about Randall's last season.
It's not just like a complete change from who he was on the court.
It's like he was Alfred Peyton a year ago. To Nick's fans, we
wanted him traded for like Nick Batum and a protected second so that way we
could see Obi talking during his season where we're tanking. He showed up as
like one of the ten best players in the NBA according to the All NBA
team last year, and it changed everything, which is why I'm I'm not
as hard on Obie about what's happened since he got drafted. I'm way more
like congratulatory about Julius in what happened, right, And that has to be
calculus on this where you can't even fault the Knicks because it's Julius Randold did
what he did. He has to be like a part of that, like
you. There's just I still even in the moment, and I'm wrong all
the time about the draft, the two players most recently that i've really or
three, because I'll tell him myself here, but I'm not actually sorry.
I desperately wanted them to draft Frankie Lakina, and I also desperately wanted them
to draft Shakil Alexander and Tyrese Haliburton. That Alibert and I get the SGA
thing like, I'm not gonna be able to explain anything that happened while Steve
Mills was in charge. So that's fair. I'm just saying, and it's
not. It's just neither of those guys were the clear. There are a
lot of people that love the Obe topping pick. I was so in love
with Tyrese Haliberton that one stung. And I also wanted him on the Suns
too, because I thought that'd be the best fit. But that has nothing
to do with this. So they're looking at their rookies. Which of the
rookies, if any, do you think is going to get the most minutes.
I would have without seeing anything in Summer League, I think you would
have looked at the roster what they did in free agency, saw the size
of Quentin Grimes versus duce McBride. Seeing what the next already have in the
guard department, I would assume it's Grimes. Then I watched duce McBride in
Summer League, and I'm like, he's six two, but he looks like
he actually defends bigger than Grimes, and he just he's more by because of
who he is, he's more dynamic offensively. Is there a chance it's him
or am I just splitting hairs here, because let's face it, it's Tibbs.
The fact that Commnuel quickly look, come on, people say you're right.
Yeah. But the fact that Immanuel quickly played as much as he did
last season to play enough minutes to where people were mentioning him in the All
Rookie discussion at the end of the year, where he was like top ten
on the Knicks and minutes played, that was the legitimate shock. It was,
according to Tims's reputation, like Chris Chris Dunn was the guy that everybody
kept warning us in Wolves Nation, like, yeah, maokle is gonna be
your Chris Dunn, a young guard at the start of Jimmy Butler's Oh yeah,
yeah, it's consistent, that's the thing. And I I think you
add in what the knicks like, let me just pump the brakes on Douce
mc bride because I'm with you. He looked great in Summer League. He
was like the reason people watch Summer League when it came at least, Knicks
fans watch Summer League because it's Deuced Nite the Douce man come, I we
can't wait to watch the Deuce and like third times when John says that by
the way, and that gets stuck in my head for like hours, believe
me every time if Deuce McBride does make it into the rotation at certain points,
anytime he does it, that video will be posted from the Knicks Film
School account. Don't worry thirty six pick in the draft, Like he's not
supposed to get significant minutes on a team that is contending. If opportunity presents
itself because of who their two point guards are, then that's a thing.
Like I've I've made the case for quickly potentially jumping in, But who's gonna
like fill the rotation spot is is Deuce McBride, Especially from a defensive point,
he's gonna be And I've apologize to you and the rest of Frank Nation.
I really think he can be what Frank wasn't, like an actual like
difference maker on offense that can be a significant difference maker on defense if given
the opportunity. I'm just gonna sidestep the Frankiela Keenness. I know, I
know the and so we did. And I don't want to get too deep
into this because we've already recorded for so long. I didn't have an issue
with what they did in the draft. They were like the what they did
in twenty twenty with the shrewd moves. There was more of that, like
swapping thirty two for thirty four and thirty six, often with two extra picks.
Yeah. Yeah, I wanted to see them and I knew they weren't
going to do this because of what they were trying to do in the off
season. I wanted there to be a bigger swing. I would have been
the team that just kept Keyan Johnson. I would have been the team I
going into the draft. I didn't think he was gonna fall this far.
I'm in love with Husman Garuba. That guy is gonna swallow souls on defense
at like basically every single position. I don't hate what they did because I
don't think that they were I didn't expect them to do it. That was
my issue with the draft. Is it was just it wasn't uninspiring, it
was less than spectacular. Is what I would say, which is which is
the best way to phrase it, is it was good business. I don't
think anything potentially high end or fortunes turning came out of it. But how
many fortune turning things happened in the nineteenth and twenty first pick in the draft.
But if I'm this team and this is just my mindset, and I
know whatever about the front office, but when Tims is your head coach,
are clearly not thinking in this vein because of what they did last season,
because of the cap space they had, because of what they free agency unfolds,
basically before the draft anyway, behind the scenes, because of the players
you knew that were coming back, that were coming in, it felt like
you had the room to just take a huge swing because you don't need these
guys right away, would have been my point. And a lot of teams
were afraid that Gruba wasn't going to come over, which is why he was.
He fell so low. It turns out he is coming over. But
that's besides. I just and they had other selections, like they could have.
They still could have done what they did with number thirty two, like
I would have, you know, for what they got from Charlotte two with
the protections on that pick. I just I wanted to see them take at
least one really big swing. I don't think they did, and I don't
think that's unforgivable. I don't think that's the wrong decision. That's a personal
preference that I recognize. But that's where and they didn't lose me. Look,
I'm gonna be the nerve right. You turned thirty two into thirty four
and thirty six awesome, But that's just that's where I was disappointed for them.
So what if I told you going into the draft they did They did
none of these moves, and they walked away at nineteen with Deuce McBride,
at twenty one with Quentin Grimes, and at thirty two with Jericho Sims.
I don't. I mean, it's tough because you're I know who's still on
the board now at that point, I wouldn't have said. But if there
if a trade up, which we look, I argue, if they there
was the trade the swing to be made, I think they would have took
it. I don't think the trade was there to be made like Cleveland,
clearly, if wasn't going to trade context and the Dame stuff clearly hasn't even
been sorted out. So the big swings that were out there, I don't
think existed. I know they were trying to trade up to get the like
the thirty year old that the Warriors took. Who what's his name? You
see the thirty year old? Yeah, he's like twenty five years old.
I forget his movie. No he might maybe I don't doesn't sound familiar.
I'm not great with the draft names. I just know that who are you
actually talking? Are you talking about? Who am I thinking of? No,
there's like a twenty four year old that. No, he's not.
He's the guy who played in the Rim. Hold On, now, I'm
gonna go back and look. I'm I'm genuinely proplasing. He's like twenty four
and everybody's joking around that him and Obe Topping, we're gonna be the oldest
people on the team. Hold on, now, I have to look it
up. Twenty twenty would NBA Drafty Murphy might be? No, Murphy's not
the guy. Hold On, once I see it, I'm gonna know exactly
Corey Kissbert. There you go. Oh, No, Dwarte, that's what
it is. Dwarte got the Pacers took. Okay, I know that the
Knicks were interested in Dwarte and it was like he's gonna be ready right now,
and they were trying to trade up and the trade wasn't there. And
if the thing I respect about what they clearly are operating with with with brock
Galler's influence at the draft, if your big board is gone, if like
the guys you want are gone, you aren't forced to make a pick,
trade down, get an asset, even if it's an asset that doesn't matter
in the future. You now have to gauge, like they did the same
thing with the manual quickly and like it turned into Derrick Rose. So as
a result, I can't fault them for at that late in the draft just
looking at what's there and saying from their own evaluation, not a lie here,
like lights us on fire. We're not like getting that crazy about like
Jalen Johnson or Trey Man. We're way more interested in collecting some assets here.
Let's trade down, get get Quentin Grimes at twenty five, then we
like have a chance to get our the guy we always wanted, Deuce McBride,
which from what you hear that's the direction they wanted to go, and
like, that's that's enough of a haul to walk away with. And then
you even go down like fifty seven and you get a guy like Jericho Sims,
where I think, in the right rotation he could be fine. I
guess there were players that I was just so much higher on and like like
a key on Johnson or really I'm in love with Bones Highland. Some people
thought that would have been too high for him. I thought he would have
been great for the next two and like I said, usmag Ruba, just
because he was there, I don't. I think everything you're saying it is
totally valid. I just and look, some people love Quentin Grimes a lot
more than I do. And I think that's also. You know, when
we haven't seen prospects playing NBA game, I eat crow all the time on
my NBA draft takes, So we'll have to see what happens there. And
again it's they're off season one. It was a winning offseason. There's no
argument against really what they did. So I guess we didn't really answer the
question do you expect any of these rookies to play? No, Well,
Duce McBride is the best chance if they're two injury played point guards get hurt.
Then if one of them gets hurt, then McBride jumps right into the
rotation. This isn't gonna be like last year where during that brief preseason Emmanuel
quickly stepped in and was like, you're gonna have to play me this year,
Dennis Smith Junior, You've lost your rotation spot. Gotcha? This is
I think I'm I have a feeling what you're answer is going to be here,
and I have a feeling it's going to disappoint a lot of people,
whimsical Knicks fans. Who's the player on this team most likely to be traded
this coming season before the trade deadline? So you can go if you want
to pick someone they just signed for the I mean, it's the obvious.
It's Kevin Knox like and it's just a dump. I don't know if I
think people are going to be upset because that's not my next topic because it's
not this big star trade. And so here's my argument, and I wanted
to throw it to you, is the deals that they signed. What is
convenient about them is they are for the following season with that team option except
for which obviously the three year and two years plus the team option is you're
not impacted, but not if a star doesn't become available, like that star
doesn't become available this sea, and there's a chance that you know, it's
not for the Knicks anyway, it's not Ben Simmons, and beyond him,
it's there's always someone who's next. Dame has been billed as the guy who's
next. I don't expect that to happen midstream. I would just be floored
if he agitated that way for the Knicks. I actually think it's beneficial if
they if that, if Damian Lillard, that stuff doesn't crop up, let's
say for some reason, and it won't be but if it was Karl Anthony
Towns, if it was name whatever star, basically you would the Knicks would
want that to happen. I still feel like they need to go through more
self discovery here to understand why what are we mortgaging all of our future for?
Because whatever star they trade for, and especially now, if I would
argue they're probably not going to trade RJ. Barrett in that star trade just
because teams, if they're giving up a star after next season, they're going
to be looking at his upcoming extension you want to rebuild. Doesn't make sense
to pay him at any rate You're going to be giving up a ton of
picks, Emanuel everything. You need to know what else you have in place
then, because it's okay, we have this guy, whether Damian Lillard,
whoever is Julius Randall's the number two on a title team? Is RJ Barrett
headed down that path? Did the Kemba Walker gamble pan out? What you
know? And what are we having some of these other younger guys who might
not be included. So I think it behooves the Knicks for nothing like that
to arise mid season because they still really need to gain a better sense of
self is how I frame. But they've already committed longer term to Julius Randall,
like whatever, But like you need to know that your unless you think
that two stars are coming, that you have the ammo to get two of
them, you need to know what you have in place in addition to that
star that would be coming over in any blockbuster trade. And the thing that
I'll just add on top of that is like I think the Knicks are set
up like they have all these assets of the cap space that they've now turned
into actual people. All these contracts are tradeable in a trade like that,
as far as matching salary is concerned. They're set up to make the big
move. I just I don't know if the big move is going to be
available anytime soon, the franchise altering move that makes you a contender, especially
in a conference and a time with Brooklyn and Milwaukee, And I don't know
if the deal it's going to get them to that level. So yeah,
I it your your listeners might not get this because they've been fans of competent
teams. This is new for us as Knicks fans. We're just enjoying that,
Like, oh, the season is not going to be over before baseball
season awesome, Like I might be able to be able to watch the team
into into March and into April and into May. So like we're very okay
with just enjoying the ride with what's here and who we have. This is
always matchup based, but I love this question. What do you think is
gonna end up being their most used or most effective closing lineup next year?
In those you know, those punchtime games. Closing lineup? Wow, Mitchell
ride been seen Julius Randall, Evan Fournier, r J, Barry, Derrick
Rose, Oh, Kemba on the bench. I just tips trust Derrick Rose
more. I that's my only like. Listen, it's you've said it on
matchups, Like there's a world where I could see it being where I could
see it being Kemba as the centers, as the point guard. There's a
world where I see neurms in the well being the center. I will say
Tim's had this annoying habit of sitting RJ on nights where he didn't have it.
So there's a world where we see like maybe they go two point guards.
Manuel Quickly is hot, we need to play him. Alec Burks is
having one of those knights where he doesn't miss. We'll play him. The
one thing I'll say with confidence is Obtoppin will not be closing game next year.
That's literally the one thing I'll say with confidence. You can't even say
like Kevin Knox will be closing games next year. I okay, fair and
wanted to make of that far I'm saying of the regular rotation players. Yes,
I will also say that the Kevin Knox will not close a single game
that matters next season, I am, and you can always say the caveat
of healthier. I would be in agreement with you, except I would have
Kemba in place of Derek Rose. If r J and Randall are shooting from
three like they were last year, it wouldn't shock me if they went two
point guards and Evan Fournier is the guy on the bench and it's Kemba and
d Rose in that situation. Maybe like maybe you said it's even r Jay,
but I think just knowing, I know he trusts Rose, but Kemba,
if he's healthy, I would have the same line up plus Kemba.
What is this is actually my favorite question that I ask every single person that
comes on for each team. What is the quirkiest offbeat not talked about way
out their lineup that this team needs to try. You want them to try
it. Maybe they won't try it. It could be just weve already you
want to say, we already said it. I'd like to see ob at
the five. I'm with you guys that want to see it. I just
don't trust tips to ever do it consistently. I would line up where r
J and Obie and Randall and let's stew Derek Rose in, Emmanuel Quickly in
there, and it's like, at certain points last year, that's what I
wanted the starting lineup to be, you know, I guess that's the starting
lineup with like when we saw signs from Obie, it's like, let's just
see what this looks like, because like you're literally just putting neurals Noel out
there to not shoot. You know, now we can actually get experimental.
If they ever were gonna track quirky lineup, that's unconventional. It's it's putting
Obie at the five. Unfortunately, I don't think they're going too I don't
have Obie in mind, and I don't think they're If you gave me like
an over under on minutes played, I would take the under for this lineup
every single time. I would have Randall at the five, and I want
to see him with I guess r J is technically the four in this situation,
but for Day Quickly Kemba and then Randall at the five get really freaking
weird. I would just the offensive firepower on that, and I'm just you
know, you don't you lose the rim protection element of your defense there.
But then I'm also kind of like, I don't know, with the way
Julius Ryanold defended last year, maybe they just score enough to where they can
at least outscore their opponents. I'm a sucker for those dynamic lineups where everyone
on the floor can basically handle the ball, everyone can shoot everyone. Yeah.
So, and I think there's if you throw Derek Rose in there,
that gets iffy, and if you throw obviously Mitchell Robinson in there, nural's
the well or to you can't do. I mean todsh Gibson, does I
guess fire away those random corner three sometimes Let's not call him a shooter though
with you so, I would argue they'll never try that, but that would
be mine for them. So as of this recording, they're over under and
it's so fun not having to convert these anymore. Forty one point five on
next season? Are you taking the over or under on their way over?
And what is your if you have to pick a record, how many wins
are they getting? I've been saying forty five is the number this this so
far, this off season, there's a world I can even say if it's
if the over under was forty five, it actually struggled. Is I could
see forty four, I could see forty six next year. Yes, the
East got better, but like so did the Knicks. I can't stress that
partner them. I think they're in that four team clusterfuck, like the twenty
sixteen season where you had four clearly inferior to the top two. You had
four teams. They're gonna battle it out to be the three through six seeds.
And look, I could even see if it ends up being the three
through seven seeds because you know, the Celtics are could be better because Tatum
becomes an MVP candidate. Yeah, I'm all, there's even the Pacers that
got better. Maybe it's at three through eight. The point being, I
don't think there's gonna be much of a difference in record, maybe in quality
and talent between the three seed and like the six or seventeen. So even
if the Knicks aren't the four seed again, they were on a forty eight
forty nine win paced last year. They did they got better, Like,
I don't see how just because their competition also got better doesn't mean that the
Knicks don't also play up to that level of petition. I have the over
two. I think they're gonna end up being a forty two or forty three
win team, and I have them I think it's right now. I have
them as a sixth best team in the East. It might even be seventh.
I can't I haven't finished my record projections. Where do you sort of
them in that? Do the Celtics ahead of them as of right now?
Yeah? That defense is gonna be really scary in Boston, I think.
Okay, to your point, though, it does feel like I think Milwaukee
and Brooklyn can clearly separate themselves. I'm gonna say there's a Miami might have
a chance to do it. I don't trust their offense right now. Four
through ten eleven I think could end up being very interchangeable, which makes this
situation so tough. But I think I'm not as optimistic on them being I
think they'll be better. I think they can show progress. I don't know
that I trust them too as much, in part because there needs to be
an element of flexibility to the way Tips is coaching. I think for them
to show that without it coming up in the wind total, I'm not sure
if that's in him, because I would view we need to see more from
r J quickly at minimum as part of that progress if we're not focusing solely
on wins. That win total was one of the tougher ones for me.
I haven't settled on it. I'd be pleasantly surprised if they got to forty
five forty six win territory though this season. I okay, that's the number.
I think forty five is like the comfy spot for me is like I
think they'll be like a forty five win team, and like if that's the
sixth seed and they're playing Miami, great, bring on the late nineties games
again, you know, like I'm all for it. I will say to
your thing about Tims's flexibility regular season tips, like that's a thing. Like
what happened in Chicago. They were a regular season powerhouse. His issue with
being so stubborn that like what got me here worked, I'm not changing like
that was an issue in the playoffs. The move to be made that everybody
was saying was like ben Jelfred Peyton, you need to get Alfred Peyton out.
Then he did and it didn't change anything. The move to be made
was going from Reggie Bull starting to Alec Burke starting because then it actually makes
Trey young defender guy that created his own shot, And TIBs was never gonna
get that radical with his lineup changes. It was always gonna be like,
okay, like we got here with what works, and if something doesn't work,
oh well. I think that playoffs is where I'm more concerned with Tibbs
than the regular seam you've encapsulated. My main issue with TIBs is that playing
to optimize your team for the matchup is considered radical thinking. The fact that
that's radical thinking melts my mind. It bends my brain. But like the
other part that I think you got a factor in, there's not gonna be
a regular season game where Tibbs is like, this doesn't matter. They're going
to be eighty two must win games next year, and if they win forty
five of them, he will be upset about the thirty seven of them.
So that like that type of intensity mattered this season, and I think it
could play into next season when teams that might factor in more load management and
caring about players pub rest for the playoffs, that that will matter more.
And you're asking me if they're gonna win forty two games, and I'm saying
yes, I'm also saying I don't think they get past the first round next
year. I would agree with you there, And I'm saying they'll win at
least forty two. If you told me Kemma plays, if Kemma misses fewer
than twenty games next year, I'm gonna be so more. I'm so high
on the idea of Kema Walker, I think as everybody is. If you
told me he misses fewer than fifteen twenty games, I'd probably be more optimistic
about they're gonna clear this over. They could get to forty five four four
win territory, but just with welcoming in sort of a new dynamic on offense.
And then, as you mentioned, it's not that anyone in the East
really dramatically improved. It's just deeper by virtue of Kyle Owry's in Miami.
The Pacers are healthy, the Hornets have a year older LaMelo ball. Things
could just Chicago is better and it's still a wild card. Like Shart have
more talent, They're more talented than they were last year. They they fucked
up their off season. I don't like, I don't even want to get
into that. We agree, so you're not wrong. I loved it.
They had Alex Caruso, they had Lonzo Ball, and then it was just
to do that. After that it was oh okay. I hated the rose
and contracts so much. I'm so glad that Knicks didn't do that good for
him though for him, anybody had got money this offseason. I just I
hear a lot of like the Bulls are the three seed now? It's like,
no, they are like probably the they're a playing team is what they've
now become, which you know gives Zach Lavine some decisions to make. There's
was so much to talk about this team. We I invariably skipped over things,
asking you, was there anything that we didn't discuss that you think needs
to be talked about heading into the twenty one twenty two New York Knicks season.
What's your trade package if they do make the damn trade? So?
And I know you when John have talked about this a lot at length.
I'm not including RJ. Barrett in it because I can be specific because it's
not whether or not I know where. If you think they can, I
think they can because of how Portland's line of thinking needs to be. Yes,
if you're the Blazers. You go in asking for everything in the kitchen
sink, and you have some of that luxury because Dame, if he's traded
this year, we'll have three and a half years left on his deal.
So you do have that type of leverage. But you also have to be
realistic about what you're doing when you trade Damian Lillard, and that is consigning
your franchise to starting over. If you don't even if you think RJ.
Barrett might be a long term pillar, do you want to max out RJ
Barrett and he you know, when he's extension eligible and have him only one
more year on his rookie scale. I'm not saying you don't want RJ.
Barrett. I'm saying the Knicks can include enough. Let's call it alternative equity,
because maybe it's in the form of some of their players, maybe it's
in the it's probably more likely in the form of draft compensation. We saw
it. Look, we saw it with Houston and James Harden. They opted
for draft equity over Jared Allen, Like they had all these picks coming and
they still opted for more draft equity. It would be a similar situation.
I think RJ. Barrett's gonna be a lot better than Jared Allen just looking
at the contract structure. So I think yes, Portland should ask for RJ.
Barrett. I think there is a way around offering him and still getting
game based off the other teams that will be in the running, because Dame
is going to have, regardless of how much how many years he has left
on his deal, he will have some saying where he's going. And unless
if he doesn't want If he says he doesn't want to go to New Orleans,
guess what New Orleans isn't throwing the kitchen sink at him. They I
think New Orleans could offer a better package than the Knicks. They're not going
to and so I think there's a pathway to it. Now, if you're
telling me that the Blazers won't do the deal unless r J. Barrett's included,
you need that half season to inform whether you draw the line at RJ
Barrett because as of right now, and this is sort of muddied by the
fact that Kemba Walker is in New York now, and there's there's a chance
that Nicks have an all star point guard. There's a chance, but in
a vacuum, if they if this was the trade now and we know legally
it can't be, I'm not doing it because I need to know that Damian
Lillard is coming to a team that either A has a viable number two on
a title contender. I would guess that Julius Randall is close to that.
That is my guest, So I'm not shipping all over him saying last year
was an admiration, but I need to see a little bit more or you
need to have the concept of what RJ. Barrett could become on that team
as another swing piece, because you can't guarantee that another star in addition to
Dame is going to come from the outside. You're not going to have the
equity necessarily to trade for them, and you're not gonna have a cap space
at least for there's always ways of getting cap space. So I if you
told me it costs RJ. Barrett right now, the answer isn't them.
But if it's mid season Julius Randall is back in the all NBA discussion,
then I think that gives you more flexibility to say yes. And that's ultimately
where I end up on it. And it's not just Dame, It's there
could be another star that we're not talking about that becomes available. So two
things to be clear, I don't see a Dame trade happening before next summer
fast, right, So I'm I'm factoring in that r J will be like
extension eligible and teams will have to make that decision. I wonder if,
like just for this, so you brought up Houston. I wonder if for
the sake of like having just a body that you can show your fan base
like, hey, we're building around RJ Barrett. This is a piece.
And even if it's to then flip RJ Barrett from more draft compensation. I
just you mentioned Houston. They were maligned for that trade. Everybody was like,
you gotta at least get something back. They gave up nothing, but
they were able to fall back on. They needed to tank and be at
least for eligible, for like having this close to the fourth worst record in
the NBA because Oksey had their pick, if they did want to have factor
in Jared Allen to their plans or factor in carras Lavert to their plans because
they had an unprotected pick, maybe it's different in this new flattened lottery.
They needed to be as bad as possible. So anything resembling talent's why,
Like Kevin Porter Junior got called up, and it's like, sure, shoot
forty shots a game, John Wall, Sure shoot thirty shots a game.
We're trying to lose every game. This is the best way to do it.
So it changed what they were looking looking for in return for James Harden.
I think if you're trading for Dame, the much more likely scenario was
like, okay, so it's r J and he's bumped his stock up so
much that you don't have to include quickly. You don't have to include Ovie,
give us the salary filler, and like the roster isn't a shell like
it was when the Mellow trade happened, or the Anthony Day this trade happened,
or you know these other big blockbuster trades happen. That's the only thought
I have, And I'm look, I'm in agreement with you because I don't
see like the next move after Dame yet that makes them a contender. I
don't want to trade r J. Bart. I want to see what this
looks like. Let me give me a year to see if he actually does
turn into what the RJ stands believe he can be and look, maybe they
maybe, like you said, Kimba Walker, Pops, Derrick Rose wins sixth
Man of the Year, r J, and Julius make the All Star team
with Kimball, the diis gonna have four All Stars this year. That's God.
Maybe the better case scenario does happen and you're in much more of the
stronger position where you're not trading for Dame because you're desperate, and you're trading
for Dame because you're trying to see if you can build a contender with what
you already have. Yeah, that makes sense. I guess. I just
don't see a scenario where they're not throwing the kitchens, think in Portland because
they don't don't have the the Shay Gildes Alexander like the Clippers had when they
got Paul George and they were trading for Paul George and Kwai. That's when
people wonder why they had so many picks and swaps, including that deal they
were getting. They were trading and this is the best way I've heard a
phrase I can't remember who said it. Oklahoma said he found a way to
trade Kawhi Leonard without ever having Kawhi Leonard and so they don't have as of
right now. RJ. Barrett isn't on that same level of blue chip cornerstone
as Shay, and if he is, then I would agree with you because
you're sort of mitigating the other collateral damage if you're giving up, that would
be an easier hard line to draw. I'm just in a mindset where it's
gonna cost so much based off how the Micks are right now to get inequity
in prospects and future picks to get that next guy. You need to protect
your highest end prospect at all costs to me right now. But as you
said, I think that's why it's more ideal for something like that to arise
after this season. And the benefit of that is we're talking specifically about Dame.
It could be another player that no one's even thought about yet. A
lot of people think that Zion's gonna try and agitate his way out of news.
That's different if it's Zion's. So here's the funny part about Zion,
right like he could afford, he could try to force his way out,
But like I am, my immediate thought would be, yeah, of course
you'd have to include RJ. But r j is the recruiting piece because of
their relationship in college. Now make of it what you will. I know
some people would have said, like, they weren't actually that close in college.
They were there for six months and then went and started training for the
NBA. I like, if Zion's on the table, that's difference, which
is weird because they just extended Julius Randalls. How different it actually is.
I'm just saying it could be. I don't think some people actually legitimately do
think that Zion is going to try and force his way out of New Orleans
before he signs his rookie extension. I am of the mind regardless, I
do think there's smoke to his unhappiness. Until someone does it turns down that
money is willing to threaten to play on the qualifying offer, I won't believe
it. I've just we've never The closest we've come is Christops Porzingis, and
he didn't so much leverage his way out of New York is New York didn't
want him anymore. There's a mutual week we're good before both leaving you,
and so we just we haven't seen it. But I'm just saying it could
be another player and if Kemma Walker is so good for you, and I
wouldn't let Derek Rose factor into this equation because he's more injury riddled where it's
even if it's not necessarily like Kema Walker is a chronic injury. With Derek
Rose, he had previously in Chicago, it was always basically the same thing
around his knees. Now it always just seems like stuff is happening. It's
it's like the Kyrie Irving there's always it's nothing, it's stuff. Maybe kem
was so good that a point guard superstars who you're trying to target, where
it's the upgrade from Kemba to Damian Lillard will be significant, want to tech
La. Damian Lillard's the top ten, top twelve player in the NBA right
now, But if Kemba Walker is still a top twenty five player in the
NBA right now, there's so you're looking at it. That's why I think
there's a big benefit to the Knicks going through next season without even having to
think about that decision until the summer, which let's you you know, factor
in what they did with the with their cap space and be thankful that they
did exactly that you know that it's not it's not just like we kept our
cap Like I get what you're saying, Like it's I just every single trade
that came up, it was like, well, if the Knicks, like
they're this guy wants out, maybe the Knicks of the team that makes that
pounces. And I'm just speaking as a Knicks fan, it was annoying.
It's like they're actually kind of like fine, right now, they're not as
desperate for competence as people made them out to me for so many years.
They're building something and now there's a core that they can act actually build around
or potentially build up the value of before making a trade for a star,
right And I think because you wanted to be good, they did the right
thing or at least not suck. You couldn't make an argument that cap space
is a way to conserve draft equity in those trades, just because teams won't
be able to ask for as much if you're saving them a ton of even
if it's star money. A team like Portland when they have Norman Powell on
the books, CJ. McCollum on the like, you have a if you're
if they were able to just send dame into the Knicks cap Space and get
cost control prospects and all these picks. The Knicks have leverage in the sense
that we just did like cap space as an asset, So I don't think
that wasn't the route to go. I agree with what they did. Like
I said, they're just just little nooks and crannies of a couple of deals
that made me a little uncomfortable. But Andrew, this was great. This
was long. Thank you, Thank you for having me on Buddy. Thank
you so much for giving us your time. Can you tell our listeners where
they can find you on Twitter? Your podcast, which I will just say
one of the podcasts is called Final Review. There you go. The it's
called Final Review. Just want so. Final Review is on Twitter at Final
Review Pod. It's available everywhere podcasts are available, iTunes, Spotify. It
is an hour bio two for this episode. Thank you very much. We
drop a new episode every Thursday, a new all time great movie, deciding
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