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We're back with another edition of the
Federalist Radio Hour. I'm Emily Joshinski,

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culture editor here at the Federalist.
As always, you can email the show

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at radio at the Federalist dot com, follow us on exit fdr LST,

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make sure to subscribe wherever you download
your podcasts, and of course to the

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premium version of the Federalist dot com
as well. I hope everyone had a

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great weekend. We're joined today by
Isabelle Brown. She's the author of a

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new book called The End of the
Alphabet, How gen Z Can Save America.

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I'm jumping in here just with a
little introduction because something interesting is this

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was I blow behind the scenes.
I pre record interviews a lot when people

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have books coming out. That's because
you know, most of these books are

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evergreen and and we'll talk about the
content of the book and all of that.

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This is a really interesting one because
Isabelle is an online influencer. Basically,

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it's a great way to describe what
she does, and she does a

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lot of work on TikTok. So
the reason I'm coming to you for an

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introduction beforehand is because we actually taped
this video before the recent explosion of TikTok

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coverage based on the bill moving its
way through first the Committee in the House,

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then through the House itself, and
now the ball is in the Senate's

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court as we're talking right now.
It's up to the Senate to take up

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this bill decide what they want to
do with this bill. There's been a

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raging debate in conservative circles that's absolutely
fascinating about what should be done. We

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had that debate. We hosted that
debate a little bit here with Nathan Lemur

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and Christopher Bedford on last week's edition
of the show. You know, I'm

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sort of torn on this. Maybe
that came through in the episode, but

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as the bill has moved really quickly
through some of these areas, you know,

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something for me that's interesting is I'm
quite suspicious that it is not targeted

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just at TikTok. And there's a
whole section B in this part of the

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bill that deals with the sort of
standard for what kind of company would be

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subject to divestment or an outright ban
based on the steps and the bill,

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and you know, I hope when
it gets to the Senate side that's something

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that gets worked. One the question
for me is whether that's a deal breaker

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for the bill. So are we
better off? Are we better off with

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or without the bill if it is
not targeted just to TikTok and then has

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these sort of hurdles that lead off
on you know, whether or that determine

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whether a company qualifies for this forced
divestment and then potential outright ban based on

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what it decides to do with the
divestment. So that is I think one

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of the interesting questions going forward is
the is it moral to pass the bill

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if it has that in it when
it gets through the Senate. That's one

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of the things that I'm wrestling with
right now. I think that can actually

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be you know, I think Nathan
Lemur and a lot of the people that

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favor this bill, conservatives that failure
this bill are absolutely correct. That is

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unlikely, highly unlikely any other company
that we can conceive of right now would

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qualify based on the steps of the
bill, which is, you know,

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twenty percent foreign ownership owned by someone
on the hostile foreign country list, and

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you know, to get on the
hostile foreign country list, that's a sort

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of uphill climb in and of itself. You know, it's basically North Korea

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or on Russia countries like that as
of right now, and you know,

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therefore it's highly unlikely another company,
you know, even Telegram or x would

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fall anywhere within that scope at the
same time, So while I I agree

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that's unlikely, I do also think
we've seen the sort of national security apparatus

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tell us that it's unlikely things like
Section seven oh two would be used to

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target American citizens without warrants before as
well. We've kind of heard that in

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the past, and we've seen how
these powers, once codified, can easily

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be abused, you know, for
example, with seven oh two, which

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we can't even convince on a bipartisan
basis. Your reform, bipartisan reform has

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been put forward very recently, Mike
Lee, is you know, michae Lee,

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Thomas Massey are sort of banging the
drum about this every day and can't

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get anyone to agree to take this
reform initiative seriously in any of the funding

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bills. Well, why is that? I mean, once you expand these

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powers, it's it's very very difficult
to curb them. And you have Inspector

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General saying, you know Section seven
oh two has been actually abused. You

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have the intelligence agencies admitting that they
have wrongfully tapped the seven oh two database,

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however many times I mean of times, So I don't like expanding these

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powers at all. I think people
like Mike Lee and Thomas Massey and Rand

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Paul have very legitimate arguments for not
supporting the TikTok bill. I do also

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think, and I've been very clear
for years on the show, that I

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think TikTok is a national security emergency. I think it's a public health emergency.

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I think we should have treated it
like a public health emergency. I

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think we should treat all social media
like a public health emergency, not just

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TikTok. I don't like that this
bill is not specific. I think it

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could just say that this applies to
TikTok, the sort of forced divestment to

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an outright ban. If the forced
devestment doesn't happen, it becomes an outright

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ban. I think that it would
be easy enough to just put in the

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bill this applies to TikTok. I
think senators don't want to, from what

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I've heard, defend this would just
apply to TikTok. I think they don't

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want to defend a bill against people
who say well, why are you singling

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out this one company. It seems
fairly easy to explain why you would single

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how TikTok. I think it is
in my colleague Sean Davis, may Hemingway

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or absolutely John Daniel Davidson are absolutely
correct to point out, you know,

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it's somewhat amusing in a tragic way, how national security focused members of Congress

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are so eager to, you know, have TikTok divest to an American corporation

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that would then have all of the
surveillance abilities of TikTok and all the abilities

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to collude with the federal government with
a pentagon because TikTok is now in their

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hands. I think that explains why
they're so eager to have this forced divestment.

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I don't think any of that means
that we shouldn't have a forced divestment.

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But the one thing that does make
me nervous about this bill is that

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it is intentionally broader than TikTok.
I don't see any reason why this bill

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needs to be intentionally broader than TikTok, But I do think it's fair to

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wrestle with the question of whether the
cost benefit analysis of kind of take it

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or leave it. Whether creating these
powers is sufficient enough to say we shouldn't

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pass the bill, I don't actually
have a clear answer to that myself right

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now. I'm really sympathetic to the
Massy Lee Paul arguments. I also think

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we desperately need to get TikTok out
of the hands of American kids. So,

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you know, I think it is
even as bad as our technique tech

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companies are. I think the latent
threat of a hot war with China.

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I think the latent threat of that
hot conflict over Taiwan, which could come

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at basically anytime. You know,
it's almost to our benefit in a hot

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conflict in some ways. Obviously it's
a disadvantage in others. But the companies

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like Google and Meta are essentially the
defense contractors. You know that it is

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the interest of you know, American
men and women whose lives would be on

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the line if we were in a
hot conflict with China overtime one. You

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know, that's having TikTok in the
pockets of this huge second of American and

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basically every young American. The propaganda
capabilities of that, you know, we

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know how they're used domestically as propaganda
capabilities. But when another country has that

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probability propaganda capacity and is actively trying
to kill American servicemen and women, that's

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I think reason enough that there's a
should be a very serious effort to get

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this the heck out of the pockets
of everyone in this country at that point.

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So that's sort of my thought on
this. I actually don't have a

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sort of black and white position on
it. I wanted to introduce Isabelle's podcast

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just with some thoughts on what's happening
with this TikTok bill. I do think

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it's usually important. I'm very sympathetic
to the arguments of Glenn Greenwald, Massy

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Paul, all those guys. I
think they're really right. I think it

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is though important to understand the latent
threat of TikTok. I'd love to get

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it out of everybody's pockets. So
I wish I had a clear answer on

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this. I wish I did,
as I think about it more as I've

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read the bill more closely and seeing
the arguments for and against the sort of

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where I am right now, I
do hope the Senate. I think the

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best thing the Senate could do is
target this just to TikTok, take out

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the language about any other companies that
will qualify and just make it TikTok.

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That is perfectly fine for the reasons
that you know, from my perspective,

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I just listed about it being a
latent threat if there's a hot war.

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So anyway, Isabelle does a lot
of social media work. She promotes conservative

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ideas and these social media channels.
Personally, I disagree with, you know,

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using TikTok for it, But again
I'm sympathetics to the argument that everyone's

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on TikTok. Kids are on TikTok, young adults are on TikTok, and

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they're going to be on TikTok whether
or not conservatives are on TikTok. They're

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going to use it no matter what. So if that's the case, you

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know, you might as well kind
of be there. You know, it's

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better to have a bunch of young
adults on TikTok with other conservatives on TikTok

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than it is just to have young
adults on TikTok without any conservative voices on

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TikTok. Totally sympathetics that argument.
Another thing I've wrestled with myself and Isabelle

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gets into that a little bit.
I'm not sure that I agree fully with

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it, but it's still a really
interesting conversation about how these tools can be

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used. Again, this was a
conversation we had before that bill really got

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serious consideration in the House. Obviously, there's been myriad efforts to ban TikTok,

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some good, some bad over the
last couple of years. But until

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that bill really started moving through the
House, this conversation that's sort of taken

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a back burner, and that's where
we were basically when we recorded this conversation

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again as well as a new book
out it is called the End of the

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Alphabet, How jen Z Can Save
America. Interesting conversation, and you know,

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again radio at the Federals dot com
for the conversation about TikTok. I

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hope you enjoy this, and you
know, I am trying to think through

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some of these things myself right now. Again. It's these are not,

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you know, the easiest questions to
work through. And I just appreciate everyone

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so much. You don't even know
how much I appreciate everyone who listens it.

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It really means a lot. It
means the world to us. Thank

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you very much. I hope you
enjoyed this interview with Isabelle Brown. Isabelle,

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Welcome to the show, Emily.
Thank you so much for having me.

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What a pleasure today. Yeah,
of course. So you know,

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the book is about gen Z,
and you know you sort of use your

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platform, particularly as a member of
gen Z. You can talk about things

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as a member of gen Z as
somebody who was sort of who grew up

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in a very specific era and was
shaped by a very specific era. Just

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talk to us a little bit about
how you got into streaming and sort of

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using these platforms to talk about politics
and culture and all of that. Well,

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I'll tell you one thing. It
never was on my radar that this

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was going to be my career.
In fact, I self published my first

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book in twenty twenty one called Frontlines, about my experience on the current American

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college campus and just how crazy things
have gotten. But as a college student

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was pursuing biomedical sciences with the intention
of going into medicine and eventually becoming a

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trauma surgeon. I even got my
graduate degree at Georgetown University after college in

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biomedical sciences Policy and Advocacy, so
essentially health care policy and how we handle

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public health crises, which I'll tell
you in twenty twenty was very eye opening

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being in class with the top experts
from the WHO and the CDC, being

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told one thing one day and seeing
the opposite on the news the next.

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But through that process really was exposed
to the reality that far greater than most

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of the problems that we're experiencing culturally
in America today, for our generation,

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the root of all of those problems
should terrify each and every one of us,

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and that's that we no longer live
in a society that values objective truth.

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And as somebody who is obsessed with
the pursuit of truth, that's why

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I became a scientist to begin with. This was incredibly troubling for me in

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my early teenage years in high school, but especially going into college in my

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early twenties, and I wanted to
be a part of the solution by facilitating

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better dialogue with our generation and creating
more ideological diversity on our college campuses.

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Again, who knew that would be
the job of a nineteen year old college

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student at a big public university instead
of her college administration. Right, But

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sadly, as a common story these
days, so really fell in love with

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campus activism. Long story short,
on campus working with groups like Turning Point

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USA and Students for Life, did
a few internships with the federal government in

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college, with the US Senate and
the White House for the Trump administration,

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and realized that there was such a
great opportunity today not to necessarily follow my

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own prescribed path of what I thought
my career would be, but continuing to

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facilitate those dialogues and conversations that really
matter about that pursuit of objective truth where

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Generation Z is at and that happens
to be on social media. So five

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years later, I'm still posting silly
videos of me talking about what's going on

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in the world. On Instagram.
We do a daily live stream unpacking political

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and cultural issues, everything from dating
to faith, to the environment and more.

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And really have the dream job of
a lifetime being to say that every

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day I just have to get up
and tell people the truth, quite literally,

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the dream job. When you have
polling showing that young people actually say

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kind of the influencer lifestyle is one
that they aspire to, and a lot

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of folks you know, in different
generations look at that and say, holy

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smokes, be an astronaut be an
engineer, be a lawyer or something like

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that. But what you're saying is
about is that there's a lot of power

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in sort of subverting the popular narrative
on some of these platforms, right exactly.

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And you know, it's interesting.
A lot of people will say that

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this dream job of the influencer,
I like to say content creator. Personally,

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I despise the word influencer. I
don't think you get to callier itself

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an influencer. Other people can say
that about you, for sure, But

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really, content creator lifestyle is that, despite what most people think being mutually

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exclusive from other career paths, it's
kind of the first time in world history

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where it can benefit your chosen career
path right alongside anything else that you do.

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Some of the most effective content creators
out there are also entrepreneurs. They're

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doctors and veterinarians, their lawyers.
They're engaging in culture from an upfront personal

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perspective every day and getting to share
what their ordinary life is like. And

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perhaps my favorite part about being a
content creator is just getting a peek behind

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the curtain into that authenticity piece that
I think gen Z values so so much

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in the content that we're consuming you
know, there's a reason we're not watching

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00:15:28,279 --> 00:15:33,200
cable news anymore to get information,
or reading the newspaper or even listening to

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the radio. Sometimes we're looking for
this sense of real life connection with someone

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that can empathize with us and that
we can see ourselves in, which is

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why I think platforms like TikTok have
become so so effective in the last several

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years. Somebody can tell you what's
going on in the news, or who's

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00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:54,000
running for president, and why something
matters to global geopolitics while they're putting their

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makeup on in the morning in the
bathroom. We're sitting in the passenger seat

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of their car coming home from a
date, and breaking down that fourth wall,

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00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:03,960
so to speak. Has been so
incredibly cool to facilitate these conversations with

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in the market lately. The stock market

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has seen unprecedented fluctuations over the last
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considered a safe haven asset during times
like this of market volatility. When that

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uncertainty rises, investors will often turn
to precious metals like silver to preserve wealth

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and to hedge against economic instability.
One of the reasons is because silver is

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a tangible asset, Owning physical silver
coins provides you with that tangible you can

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that intrinsic value. Of metal coins,

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your purchase of seventy five dollars or
more. Well, and that actually TikTok

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00:18:22,759 --> 00:18:26,880
really gets to the heart of the
moral dilemma. That's you know, I

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know, I'm sure that you've grappled
with it, this question of if you're

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somebody who seeks truth and you know, is aware of some of the harms

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and the detrimental conduct of these social
media companies, you know, whether it's

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Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, Meta
or TikTok, there's some very real moral

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questions about whether contributing to those companies
helping their bottom line using their platforms is

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a net benefit morally if it's okay
because it, you know, spreads the

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word and a place where people will
not hear it otherwise, you know,

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if they're if there aren't conservatives on
TikTok, kids are still going to use

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TikTok, and they're just going to
have a lot more liberal perspectives zipped into

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their algorithm. Can you talk to
us as well, just a little bit

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about how you think through some of
those tough questions. Oh? Absolutely,

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And I'm glad we're able to have
these conversations now because I think for so

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long the right and right of center
politicians in particular have written off social media

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for the last several years. They
think that it's somehow unprofessional or not important,

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or even just assesspool of insane leftist
indoctrination. And there's absolutely no saving

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grace or hope for anybody else to
be on these platforms. For me,

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the moral question of social media at
large is really quite simple, and you

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alluded to it right there in the
question if we are not present where culture

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is in fighting for objective truth even
larger than conservative principles, but the idea

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that there is a concept of objective
truth, then unfortunately our peers may never

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encounter that now radical idea, and
I see this all the time, and

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high school campuses, on college campuses, but especially when having conversations through screens.

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We've seen this almost abandonment of our
opportunity to change culture from the inside

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out for far too long, and
now it is a bit of an uphill

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battle, But those battles are happening
and winning for the right every single day

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on comment sections and in dms and
in live streams, in a far more

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effective way than anything that we could
possibly do in the political sphere outside of

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social media. TikTok's an interesting one, especially because there's a lot of information

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and I would argue misinformation out there
that's very targeted and calculated to make you

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believe that it is inherently a national
security issue or a data security issue.

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Heck, I was even on Fox
News talking about this last night and rampantly

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this idea, this narrative is continuing
to be repeated that you are insecure and

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you are somehow unsafe if you are
using this platform. Yet if you do

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just very little research on the subject, there's actually not one die documented example

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ever of TikTok giving your data to
the CCP. There are countless documented examples

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00:21:06,839 --> 00:21:10,880
of meta selling your data to the
CCP, who owns Facebook and Instagram and

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WhatsApp. There are examples of the
FBI purchasing your data under the table,

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behind the scenes from Twitter before Elon
Musk took on the platform, and he

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declassified some of that for us in
the last several months. Heck, even

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Airbnb has been known to sell your
data to the CCP. So when I

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see this bipartisan which in and of
itself is a rare enough occurrence these days,

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we can't agree on what a woman
is, but all of a sudden,

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we can agree on a bipartisan attack
on TikTok, it really makes me

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stop in my tracks and think,
why is there such an attack on social

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media today? And I think so
much of that is because we are sharing

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unfiltered, authentic, unscripted information with
one another, and that's happening more and

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more in this authentic, grassroots way
on TikTok that I'm seeing on any other

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platform. As to the moral question
with the content on all of these platforms,

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are they just this cesspool of leftist
indoctrination garbage or do we have a

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moral responsibility to be there? I
would argue the latter, because we always

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like to say, as conservatives,
the phrase coined by the late great Andrew

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Breitbart, politics is always downstream from
culture. And we believe this about the

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entertainment industry. We believe this about
education, We believe this about the church.

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We believe this about dating and marriage. But for whatever reason, conservatives

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often neglect the opportunity to change culture
where it's happening, and that happens to

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be on social media today. I
can't tell you how many minds I have

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seen changed about abortion, about who's
running for president, about the border,

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about freedom of expression and speech,
even radical conversions of faith and really crazy

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stories in that realm because of what
somebody saw in a silly fifteen second TikTok

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video, or talking to each other
back and forth in Instagram comment sections.

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And I think if we abandon the
call for social media truly, we won't

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have an opportunity to change gen Z's
minds moving forward. Though, I will

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say, as a journalist, they
the CCP has definitely accessed. Forbes had

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a great report on journalists TikTok data
that SAFC being got his hands on.

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But yes, the companies are all
doing this. It's it's it's absolutely true.

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American companies. Everybody's having fun with
the data, that's for sure.

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And you know that's kind of a
big question that I wanted to ask as

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well. It's just about my My
problem is is less even the security and

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the privacy and the data and the
bias. It's more than anything, how

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using these apps basically on smartphones has
created. You know, there's there's pretty

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decent evidence coming from Jonathan Height and
others now that it's the correlation is increasingly

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clear that these apps are are reflected
in increased rates of mental illness and all

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of that. And we can get
into that because I'm curious. You know,

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when when I first got on Facebook, there weren't smartphones, so it

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was like you were you were like, I'm a millennial, but not to

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you know, I'm not ancient,
that's for sure, but you know,

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we had to like email if we
wanted to like post on someone's wall during

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high school or something like that.
But it's very different when it's in your

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pocket and they've you know, sort
of hacked the brainstem with red notifications and

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all that good stuff. So how
do you think about that moral question of

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just like, you know, being
part of that machine again, I think

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it's I don't mean to put words
in your mouth, but I imagine it's

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it's similar that if if nobody's there, if kids are going to be scrolling

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TikTok no matter what, and if
they're only getting one side, that's that's

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just as scary, arguably not even
just scary. I think that's what's causing

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a lot of these mental health issues. There, of course, are very

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important conversations to be had about the
science behind this, with screen time and

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social media in particular being considered addictive, and there are incredible experts out there

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researching this stuff about neuron behaviors and
hormone release that actually mimic drug addiction.

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And I think there's a lot to
be said about why we need to address

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this problem now. But the truth
is at the root cause social media is

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nothing more than a tool. And
of course there's algorithm transparency issues and what

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00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:19,240
content is being pushed and all of
that, But social media today, our

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00:25:19,279 --> 00:25:23,839
Facebook feeds, our Instagram videos,
our TikTok for you pages, YouTube live

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00:25:23,839 --> 00:25:30,319
streams are today the modern public square. When you want to share a statement

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00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:33,119
or a value, when you want
to debate with somebody, when you want

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00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:36,440
to challenge your own beliefs. You're
not doing that by standing on a street

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00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:40,440
corner, on an apple box anymore, shouting into the void or through a

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00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:44,240
homemade megaphone. You happen to be
doing it in two hundred eighty characters,

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00:25:44,279 --> 00:25:47,599
through a tweet, or in a
fifteen second TikTok video. And when we

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have this opportunity to use a tool, it can be used nefariously or it

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00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:56,400
can be used for very very good, altruistic purposes in society as well.

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TikTok is a prime example of this. You see the del and Mulvaney's of

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00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:04,400
the World, or Jeffrey marsh who's
quite a controversial character on TikTok, and

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00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:10,960
older gentlemen who identifies as non binary
and is encouraging children to cut ties with

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00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:15,720
their families over their gender identity.
Very controversial and difficult stuff that's obviously contributing

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00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:21,519
to the mental health crisis this generation
is facing. But you also see movements

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00:26:21,519 --> 00:26:26,079
and organizations like Stay Here, which
is an organization dedicated to making gen Z

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00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:30,880
suicide free, and for the first
time ever last year, gen Z has

353
00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:36,319
actually decreased dramatically our generational suicide rate. So there's a lot to be said

354
00:26:36,319 --> 00:26:40,279
about the data out there and the
concern and confusion that people have, but

355
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:42,720
these tools really are just that,
their tools, and I hope that more

356
00:26:42,759 --> 00:26:48,319
and more people see not just the
opportunity, but the obligation to fill our

357
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:52,759
feeds, to fill these videos and
algorithms, to fill comment sections and dms

358
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:56,039
with truth based content. That's going
to bring back what's morally good, true,

359
00:26:56,039 --> 00:27:00,319
and beautiful to society again, because
otherwise we just throw the pack of

360
00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:06,119
wolves to the next generation. You
say Gen Z probably will never interact with

361
00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:10,240
any other content, and that's actually
true. We say this hyperbolically sometimes that

362
00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:14,680
every single Gen Z will never engage
with conservative ideas. But if you break

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00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:18,400
down the math with who's on TikTok
in particular, there are one hundred and

364
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:25,440
fifty million Americans who use TikTok at
least monthly as a regular social media platform,

365
00:27:25,599 --> 00:27:30,240
and about seventy percent of those on
TikTok in America are Generation Z.

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00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:34,559
Well, there's only about seventy million
Gen Zers total in America today, So

367
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:37,920
when we're talking about seventy percent of
one hundred and fifty million people, that's

368
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:42,799
almost every single member of Generation Z. Who not only is getting our favorite

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00:27:42,799 --> 00:27:48,480
social media content through TikTok, but
interestingly, TikTok has become our number one

370
00:27:48,519 --> 00:27:53,200
search engine as a generation, more
than Google. So if you're looking up

371
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:56,839
where to go, make a dinner
reservation tomorrow night, what to do on

372
00:27:56,920 --> 00:28:00,440
vacation, or even who to vote
for for President of the United States,

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00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:03,480
we tend to be looking that up
on TikTok. And I hope that that

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00:28:03,519 --> 00:28:07,400
tool can continue to be used by
more and more people every day for good

375
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:11,000
purposes. So I mean big news
on this front. Two, with some

376
00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:15,000
polling showing this is both New York
Times poll and an Axios poll just in

377
00:28:15,039 --> 00:28:18,680
the last couple of months showing Donald
Trump making huge gains with young voters.

378
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:22,759
And something I think is interesting about
that is it's not going to translate,

379
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:29,079
likely immediately to a bunch of other
Republican candidates. You know, we didn't

380
00:28:29,079 --> 00:28:33,480
see a huge youth bump for DeSantis, but what we're seeing with Donald Trump.

381
00:28:33,519 --> 00:28:36,319
For some reason, part of it
is the binary choice with Joe Biden,

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00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:42,319
and you know, the sort of
youth opposition to Israel and Dionism and

383
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:45,880
just all of that. And I'm
sure you have thoughts as a book,

384
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:48,799
because you're in this every single day
and you've seen some of the insanity.

385
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:53,720
But it's crazy the inroads that Donald
Trump in the polling appears to have made

386
00:28:53,759 --> 00:28:57,960
with black voters, Hispanic voters,
and young voters. How much of that

387
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:04,359
do you think from the old gatekeepers
New York Times, Washington Post, whomever,

388
00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:11,960
being totally subverted an undercut with social
media, with TikTok, with people

389
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:18,319
basically sharing information that otherwise wouldn't find
major mainstream platforms. But if you're on

390
00:29:18,359 --> 00:29:19,640
TikTok, the algorithm will still feed
it to you, or if you're on

391
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:23,279
Instagram, the algorithm will still feed
it to you in certain circumstances. I

392
00:29:23,319 --> 00:29:27,640
think it has everything to do with
the undercut of traditional media. You know,

393
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:32,680
Generation Z is not watching cable news, They're not reading the New York

394
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:36,039
Times. They might see a headline
or a link to something from the New

395
00:29:36,119 --> 00:29:38,839
York Times on social media, or
a screenshot of one paragraph, but they're

396
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:45,079
not engaging in traditional media. And
more importantly, the length of traditional media

397
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:48,160
that I think has been required for
the past several decades. You can get

398
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:52,440
the same exact information in a thirty
second SoundBite. On an Instagram reel than

399
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:56,279
you could get for watching two hours
of MSNBC. And so this constant circulation

400
00:29:56,319 --> 00:30:02,200
of information, not to mention,
having all of the information and history of

401
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:06,519
the world at your fingertips at every
given moment, with these smartphones in our

402
00:30:06,559 --> 00:30:11,160
pockets, has given this generation an
opportunity not to be uneducated like most people

403
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:15,119
who come before us believe that we
are, but actually to be hyper educated

404
00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:19,440
about what's going on in the world, not through the quote unquote approved media

405
00:30:19,519 --> 00:30:25,359
sources or even state sponsored media sources, but through authentic, boots on the

406
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:30,119
ground citizen journalism in a way that
the world has never seen. I am

407
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:33,480
so excited about this polling related to
Donald Trump, and this is actually what

408
00:30:33,519 --> 00:30:37,279
I just shared with Fox News last
night. I don't think it's a new

409
00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:41,720
phenomenon, this shift towards conservative values
and policies, and a lot of people

410
00:30:41,799 --> 00:30:45,039
might be surprised to hear me say
that, But the truth is, even

411
00:30:45,079 --> 00:30:52,079
though Generation Z voted overwhelmingly for Democrat
candidates in twenty twenty, if you look

412
00:30:52,079 --> 00:30:56,039
at exit polling for Gen Z voter
behavior from twenty eighteen to twenty twenty to

413
00:30:56,119 --> 00:31:00,599
twenty twenty two, all the way
up to twenty twenty four, are you

414
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:04,359
actually see what looks like a straight
line slope. If you remember elementary school

415
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:10,319
math, the Y equals MX plus
B classic graph that probably come up and

416
00:31:10,519 --> 00:31:12,640
comes up in your mind. That's
the type of trend that we are seeing

417
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:19,359
positively for more conservative candidates and more
conservative policies on an issue by issue basis.

418
00:31:19,559 --> 00:31:22,519
And I think all of that for
gen Z has to do with that

419
00:31:22,599 --> 00:31:29,359
same idea I mentioned earlier that politics
is downstream from culture when you zoom out

420
00:31:29,359 --> 00:31:32,400
to the cultural level for our generation
today, and this is what I really

421
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:36,599
talk about in my book What's Happening
culturally and how this will correlate politically later

422
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:44,960
on down the line. You see
the radical revolutionary authoritarian left controlling almost every

423
00:31:45,079 --> 00:31:51,680
pillar, arguably every single pillar of
American culture and society today, certainly education,

424
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:56,240
the entertainment industry. You see this
in our favorite TV shows and movies

425
00:31:56,279 --> 00:32:00,599
and music influencer culture and what's happening
on social media. You see this in

426
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:06,440
the American church today overwhelmingly, which
is crazy that your pastor likely is subscribing

427
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:09,359
to something like the Sparkle Creed instead
of saying that the Bible is the word

428
00:32:09,359 --> 00:32:14,880
of God. We certainly see this
in corporate America with these massive woke companies

429
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:19,160
in San Francisco and New York,
and obviously politics as well. But if

430
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:23,279
you look throughout human history, cyclically, every young generation basically wants to do

431
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:28,640
the same thing when it's their turn
to come into adulthood and adolescence, and

432
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:31,559
that is to rebel against the people
who came before you, to be different,

433
00:32:31,599 --> 00:32:35,759
to challenge the status quo, to
be a little bit punk rock and

434
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:39,240
edgy. And while that historically might
have looked like actual punk rock, metal

435
00:32:39,359 --> 00:32:45,480
music and bands, spiky hair,
body tattoos and piercings all over and literally

436
00:32:45,519 --> 00:32:49,720
looking different and challenging things from a
very literal perspective, today, to be

437
00:32:49,839 --> 00:32:55,400
radically countercultural. To be punk rock
is to be a patriotic conservative American is

438
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:59,480
to believe that men are men and
women are women. Is to want to

439
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:04,279
get mayor and have children. Is
to believe in God instead of belief solely

440
00:33:04,279 --> 00:33:08,200
in yourself or worship of the government. And that's exactly culturally the trends that

441
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:12,559
we've been seeing with gen Z over
the last several years. I know this

442
00:33:12,599 --> 00:33:15,839
is a very long winded answer,
But it's just fascinating to me that gen

443
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:20,839
Z is starting to overwhelmingly reject the
idea that you need to spend two hundred

444
00:33:20,839 --> 00:33:23,960
and fifty thousand dollars on a liberal
arts degree in something like I don't know

445
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:28,839
underwater lesbian basket weaving, right,
because we know that's not going to give

446
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:32,839
us any meaning despite being the prescribed
pathway to success. We are told that

447
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:37,079
the only way to be successful at
a company in corporate America is to be

448
00:33:37,119 --> 00:33:40,799
an unpaid intern and prove your loyalty
to your woke company for forty or fifty

449
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:45,880
years and maybe you'll get promoted in
the process. We're saying no, thank

450
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:49,359
you, and sixty two percent of
us have already started our own businesses,

451
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:53,279
skipping to the role of CEO on
day one. A recent survey from College

452
00:33:53,279 --> 00:33:59,519
Campus has found that ninety three percent
of gen Zers want to get married today,

453
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:02,160
which which is astounding when you consider
the fact that we have the lowest

454
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:07,679
marriage rate in America since we began
recording marriage rates in eighteen sixty seven and

455
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:12,079
one of the highest divorce rates of
all time. Currently, it is not

456
00:34:12,199 --> 00:34:15,199
a societal norm to want a monogamous
marriage for the rest of your life.

457
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:20,480
But that's what we're seeking overwhelmingly,
and there's a ton of other anecdotal evidence.

458
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:22,360
We're throwing away our birth control,
we're deleting our dating apps, We're

459
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:28,880
challenging the status quo of cancel culture
by actually offering redemption and forgiveness in society.

460
00:34:29,159 --> 00:34:32,519
But if we know all of these
things are happening culturally eventually downstream,

461
00:34:32,679 --> 00:34:37,480
that's going to impact how we behave
politically. And when you look at the

462
00:34:37,519 --> 00:34:43,360
options in front of us right now, lockstep, rigid leftist authoritarianism, or

463
00:34:43,559 --> 00:34:49,000
the opportunity to live your own life
on your terms offered by the relatively sane

464
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:52,920
people left in American politics, I
think the options are pretty clear, and

465
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:59,239
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It's interesting because when I was in the

484
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:34,400
sort of college, in the college
conservatism space, I heard the same thing

485
00:36:34,519 --> 00:36:37,960
all the time, like conservatives.
Literally, I hosted event on my campus

486
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:42,280
within this is hilarious at the time
se Cup that was called like conservatives of

487
00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:45,119
the New rock Stars or rebels.
I think it was something like that.

488
00:36:45,639 --> 00:36:49,239
But what's interesting about the difference between
millennials and gen Z is that with gen

489
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:55,800
Z, it's it's almost like what
people saw happening with millennials actually is happening

490
00:36:55,960 --> 00:37:00,599
with gen Z. So like what
people predicted about my millennials when the technology

491
00:37:00,639 --> 00:37:06,039
advanced, it actually did happen with
gen Z, meaning the gatekeepers are totally

492
00:37:06,079 --> 00:37:07,800
gone. And I think a lot
of this is a well, I'm curious

493
00:37:08,119 --> 00:37:10,920
for your perspective. I feel like
you agree based on what you've said so

494
00:37:12,039 --> 00:37:16,800
far, comes from that question about
moral clarity that when you are a generation

495
00:37:17,079 --> 00:37:21,760
Generation Z, you literally did not
grow up in the age of gatekeepers,

496
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:25,719
like you did not grow up really
with cable news being all powerful, with

497
00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:30,719
people getting the New York Times on
their doorstep, and even with just like

498
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:36,480
you know, the democratization of what
it means to be a journalist, like

499
00:37:36,519 --> 00:37:39,840
so much shitis in journalism. Smartphones
in everyone's pocket, meaning there are pictures

500
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:45,320
everywhere, there's memes, there's a
like fake pictures, photoshop, like everything

501
00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:50,639
is out there and it's really really
hard, even you know, for me

502
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:53,159
right now sometimes to figure out what's
true and what's not. It's hard for

503
00:37:53,199 --> 00:37:57,280
anyone to figure out what's true and
what's not. And in an environment like

504
00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:02,760
that, you crave moral and once
you realize that what you're craving is moral

505
00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:08,119
clarity, it leads you in an
interesting direction. And that seems to me

506
00:38:08,199 --> 00:38:13,440
what's happening to be what's happening with
gen Z, especially in an era.

507
00:38:13,599 --> 00:38:16,159
I love how you phrased this with
moral clarity. In this era of moral

508
00:38:16,199 --> 00:38:22,920
ambiguity and subjectivity, not only has
truth become subjective, but obviously we believe

509
00:38:23,079 --> 00:38:28,400
morals and values have as well,
to the point that in America today,

510
00:38:28,559 --> 00:38:32,199
you can make a moral argument for
my truth being better than your truth,

511
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:37,119
that in my world you are a
better person. Anecdotally speaking, if you

512
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:44,519
encourage a twelve year old girl to
castrate herself chemically or physically, literally chopping

513
00:38:44,559 --> 00:38:47,039
off body parts so that she can
feel more secure in her own skin,

514
00:38:47,559 --> 00:38:52,039
rendering the rest of her life very
very difficult, maybe even increasing her rate

515
00:38:52,039 --> 00:38:57,159
of suicide, than if you were
to protect the innocence of children. That's

516
00:38:57,199 --> 00:39:00,719
a literal moral argument that you can
make today. Are moral arguments happening today

517
00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:06,840
that it is more compassionate to end
the life of your preborn child because you

518
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:12,519
theoretically don't want them to suffer in
poverty or with mental health issues or bullying.

519
00:39:12,559 --> 00:39:15,760
I hear all of these arguments on
college campuses all the time. Then

520
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:19,840
to give your child a chance at
life, that's the type of moral question

521
00:39:20,199 --> 00:39:23,000
that's in front of us in America
today. And when everything has become subjective,

522
00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:28,280
we really threw the baby out with
the bathwater on the foundation of our

523
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:32,760
country. Of course, there's opportunities
for subjectivity in society and nuance matters.

524
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:37,400
I think we're realizing that now more
than ever. But everything has become so

525
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:42,639
unbelievably nuanced that ironically there's no room
for it anymore, and we just can't

526
00:39:42,639 --> 00:39:46,719
have any sense of moral objectivity whatsoever
in society today. So that sense of

527
00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:53,039
a moral ambiguity and lacking a greater
purpose in society, I believe is very

528
00:39:53,159 --> 00:39:59,960
much driving the direction and the values
of my generation. Preparing for my book

529
00:40:00,039 --> 00:40:02,000
and doing a lot of research,
it was fascinating for me to read one

530
00:40:02,039 --> 00:40:09,239
study that seventy five percent of Gen
Z genuinely believes we can and will change

531
00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:14,360
the world for the better. And
I found that fascinating because I think generally

532
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:19,360
people associate apathy with the millennial generation, this idea of I give up,

533
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:22,039
I can't control anything, woe is
me, scream at the sky. I

534
00:40:22,079 --> 00:40:27,400
think when you hear the word millennial
and politics, you automatically associate the video

535
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:31,000
of that young woman wearing the construction
vest after the twenty sixteen election, screaming

536
00:40:31,599 --> 00:40:37,039
what the sky after Donald Trump was
elected, And this sense of a lack

537
00:40:37,119 --> 00:40:43,199
of control over the things around you
in society has really hallmarked millennial's approach towards

538
00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:46,960
culture, activism, and politics,
whereas the opposite is becoming true for Generation

539
00:40:47,119 --> 00:40:52,280
Z. We're getting involved in the
process. We're not waiting for permission to

540
00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:57,599
embrace leadership. We're starting activism organizations, We're having these conversations on social media.

541
00:40:57,639 --> 00:41:00,920
We're taking to the streets with protests
or even running for office ourselves,

542
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:05,880
even when most people tell us we're
too young or too inexperienced to make much

543
00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:09,320
of a difference. I really believe
it goes back to that seventy five percent

544
00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:15,280
that the vast majority of us genuinely
believe we can and will change the world.

545
00:41:15,599 --> 00:41:21,000
And this speaks volumes to me in
terms of bringing back moral clarity to

546
00:41:21,159 --> 00:41:25,000
society rooted an objective truth and what's
good and true and beautiful. When you

547
00:41:25,039 --> 00:41:30,039
look at one study talking about Generation
z's belief in something larger than ourselves,

548
00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:36,079
in twenty twenty one, only about
twenty five percent of my generation said that

549
00:41:36,119 --> 00:41:40,960
we believed in a higher power at
all, no sense of objective movement towards

550
00:41:42,079 --> 00:41:45,320
faith in society. At that time, the trends were very much towards atheism

551
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:51,840
and moving away from faith and traditional
religious values. But by twenty twenty three,

552
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:55,760
over one third of Gen Z now
says we proudly believe in God and

553
00:41:55,800 --> 00:42:00,800
are regularly attending church. So talk
about a huge upswing from less than twenty

554
00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:06,039
five percent to over thirty three percent
in just two years. In American culture,

555
00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:09,800
there's a hunger and a desire and
a thirst that really can't be quenched.

556
00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:15,000
For these questions of what is my
purpose? How can I serve my

557
00:42:15,079 --> 00:42:19,360
community? Why am I here?
It has to be bigger than the empty,

558
00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:25,519
hollow facade, of meaningless virtue signaling
that the left continuously tries to offer

559
00:42:25,559 --> 00:42:29,719
to us in all of those pillars
of culture I mentioned earlier, education,

560
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:32,559
entertainment, et cetera. And I
think we're finding it in really meaningful ways

561
00:42:32,599 --> 00:42:37,320
and putting it into action. Something
I tell my friends on the left is

562
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:46,000
that this when people realize that the
left narrative is being depicted as the sort

563
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:52,480
of the true capital T narrative,
it's so powerful when they realize A,

564
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:57,320
you know, that's being forced on
them, and B they're all kinds of

565
00:42:57,360 --> 00:43:00,599
cracks in the foundation. It actually
reminds me of like when people used to

566
00:43:00,639 --> 00:43:04,639
pick up you know, a people's
history of the United States Howard Zinn or

567
00:43:04,679 --> 00:43:08,519
Noam Chomsky, and you know,
those guys tell stories that are different than

568
00:43:08,559 --> 00:43:14,760
sort of the mainstream narrative, and
that is so so powerful, except now

569
00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:17,280
it's going in the other direction.
But as well, I'm curious for your

570
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:22,199
thoughts on how this can It can
go in some pretty dark places too.

571
00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:28,880
And so it's also the job of
conservatives to come prepare to sort of embrace

572
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:34,719
people with good arguments that are persuasive
and don't send people down, you know,

573
00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:38,679
taking black pills every day, for
example, or down conspiracy rabbit holes,

574
00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:42,960
because that's the other thing, you
know, when you when you can't

575
00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:45,000
tell what's true from what's false,
I mean, sometimes you just give up

576
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:49,880
and say we live in a simulation
and I'm gonna, you know, smoke

577
00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:53,719
weed and play Xbox. You're right, and it's funny, this black pill

578
00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:57,880
notion. I've heard more and more
people talking about it lately. I even

579
00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:00,880
had to, as a content creator
myself, look in the mirror the last

580
00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:02,280
couple of weeks and say, you
know, we've been covering a lot of

581
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:07,639
really negative conspiratorial issues lately. Let's
do something positive on my livestream today.

582
00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:10,599
And I think people are just looking
for that breath of fresh air and change

583
00:44:10,599 --> 00:44:17,519
of pace. That really, what
we're talking about today isn't as politically divided

584
00:44:17,639 --> 00:44:21,400
as the people in power would like
for you to believe that it is.

585
00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:22,960
Right. We talk all the time
about how we live in the most divided

586
00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:27,760
time in modern history. We live
in two different Americas. We have completely

587
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:30,880
different values. If somebody votes differently
or thinks differently from myself, I hear

588
00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:35,800
a lot of people say that person
is demonic or evil. Today we take

589
00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:39,920
things to this hyperbolic, insane rhetoric
that often really doesn't need to be the

590
00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:44,719
forefront of this conversation. Yesterday or
two days ago, rather, I was

591
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:50,079
actually sitting at a roundtable discussion in
Los Angeles with the Schwarzenegger Institute with former

592
00:44:50,079 --> 00:44:54,360
Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger and the American Conservation
Coalition. They are a right of center

593
00:44:54,440 --> 00:45:00,039
conservative environmental group and have done some
really great work in exposing those in politics

594
00:45:00,079 --> 00:45:04,639
to the fact that young conservatives really
care about the environment. And I was

595
00:45:04,639 --> 00:45:08,639
sitting across the table from people who
dramatically would vote differently than myself. They're

596
00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:14,480
very big supporters of AOC. They
believe in democratic socialism for whatever that is

597
00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:16,639
supposed to mean. We can argue
about that later. The names of their

598
00:45:16,719 --> 00:45:21,639
organizations were like Queer, Brown,
Vegan, and I'm kind of chuckling to

599
00:45:21,679 --> 00:45:24,400
myself how differently we approach this issue. But the way we sit down at

600
00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:28,639
the table and we're all starting to
use the same language for the things that

601
00:45:28,679 --> 00:45:30,599
we care about. You know,
I want to do what I want to

602
00:45:30,639 --> 00:45:34,599
do and take personal responsibility for my
own life. I want the opportunity to

603
00:45:34,639 --> 00:45:37,719
care for my community. I want
to give a voice to people who have

604
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:42,880
been silenced by the mainstream media for
far too long. I fear authoritarianism.

605
00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:46,079
Was actually something that one of these
young leftists said that young leftists everywhere are

606
00:45:46,159 --> 00:45:51,840
terrified of authoritarianism should the right continue
to have political power. And I laughed

607
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:53,119
and actually said to this young man, you know, believe it or not,

608
00:45:53,159 --> 00:45:58,880
that's the number one fear from young
conservatives too. We fear leftists entrenched

609
00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:04,440
bureaucracy, authoritarianism with the continued direction
that our government has been going. And

610
00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:07,000
I think, for the most part, if you're able to strip away the

611
00:46:07,079 --> 00:46:13,199
labels for young people with the connotations
and the weight that words like republican or

612
00:46:13,239 --> 00:46:15,239
democrat or whatever word you want to
throw in there, have carried the last

613
00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:21,199
several years, young people everywhere are
honestly just tired. We're exhausted of a

614
00:46:21,239 --> 00:46:25,559
system that frankly looks a whole lot
more like a uniparty than actual political discourse

615
00:46:25,599 --> 00:46:31,199
in Washington. We're tired of politicians
who've been serving in Congress longer than twice

616
00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:36,719
the time we've been alive, who
keep promising to do the same things every

617
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:39,280
two, four or six years,
and we keep sending them back and they

618
00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:43,639
insist they're the only people that can
solve the problem. But they can't solve

619
00:46:43,679 --> 00:46:45,800
the problem or they'd be out of
a job, right So that's a really

620
00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:51,639
frustrating reality for us to be in. We're really tired of everything boiling down

621
00:46:51,679 --> 00:46:55,440
to a political statement in America today, down to the underwear brand that you're

622
00:46:55,480 --> 00:47:00,440
wearing right now or the toothbrush that
you used this morning on pomatically associating you

623
00:47:00,559 --> 00:47:05,599
with one extreme side or the other
of the political spectrum. And we're hungry

624
00:47:05,639 --> 00:47:09,760
for something different, And obviously there's
a lot of people who have been indoctrinated

625
00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:15,519
and brainwashed to believe that the something
different is actually just the status quo in

626
00:47:15,639 --> 00:47:19,480
radical leftism, Which just a spoiler
for you, if you're listening to this,

627
00:47:19,599 --> 00:47:22,239
if you happen to be following the
exact same talking points of every single

628
00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:28,159
entrenched cultural institution, of every corporation, of every CEO, and every politician,

629
00:47:28,239 --> 00:47:30,519
you probably aren't. The resistance is
just a little thought to throw out

630
00:47:30,559 --> 00:47:35,360
there for you. But we're looking
for a change, and it's really telling

631
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:39,599
to me that fifty two percent of
newly registered voters in our generation are choosing

632
00:47:39,639 --> 00:47:44,599
to register as independent. This is
far beyond party label. This is far

633
00:47:44,679 --> 00:47:47,559
beyond which guy you want to sit
in the beautiful chair in the Oval office.

634
00:47:47,719 --> 00:47:52,800
This speaks to values and a radical
transformation and frankly revolution for what it

635
00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:57,440
means to be an American today.
I titled my book The End of the

636
00:47:57,519 --> 00:48:01,920
Alphabet as somewhat a note to this
idea that those older than us always keep

637
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:06,519
saying. Gen z is the end
of America. It's the end of life

638
00:48:06,559 --> 00:48:09,280
as we know it. And I
always laugh at how hyperbolic that sounds.

639
00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:12,960
But the more I wrote this book
and thought about what I wanted to put

640
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:15,440
into it, the more I started
thinking about what life as we know it

641
00:48:15,559 --> 00:48:20,719
actually means. If life as we
know it means that we should be encouraging

642
00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:23,719
twelve year olds to change their gender
and to be separated from custody from their

643
00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:29,199
parents as some sort of liberation,
then I have no problem saying that we

644
00:48:29,199 --> 00:48:31,320
should end life as we know it. If life as we know it means

645
00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:36,280
the death of millions of innocent children
before they even have the chance to be

646
00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:42,079
born, packaged in this beautiful pink
bow of women's empowerment and feminism, then

647
00:48:42,079 --> 00:48:45,159
I have no problem saying that there
probably should be an end to life as

648
00:48:45,159 --> 00:48:50,599
we know it if it means radical
division, if it means the sixteen nineteen

649
00:48:50,679 --> 00:48:54,760
project or pornographic books in elementary school, or even just this idea that objective

650
00:48:54,840 --> 00:49:00,239
truth doesn't have a place in society
anymore. I think it's time for us

651
00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:04,920
to create a revolution for a difference
in life as we know it. And

652
00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:09,199
Generation Z is doing just that by
reinventing the wheel culturally and politically every day

653
00:49:09,519 --> 00:49:14,239
with this sense of hope and optimism
that we can and will change the world

654
00:49:14,239 --> 00:49:21,280
for the better in the process,
something I think people I guess underappreciate,

655
00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:27,840
especially older generations, because technology was
changing really really quickly for the Boomers,

656
00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:30,440
even for greatest gen you know,
you think of people who lived through a

657
00:49:30,519 --> 00:49:36,119
world before the automobile and then died
in the era of planes. I mean,

658
00:49:36,159 --> 00:49:39,239
it's just remarkable how quickly this has
all been moving. But the reason

659
00:49:39,320 --> 00:49:47,719
these different generations now feel so so
much more calcified is the rate of technological

660
00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:52,679
change means that if you grew up
in the nineties versus the Oughts, you

661
00:49:52,719 --> 00:49:55,599
grew up in a completely different world, different country, different world, different

662
00:49:55,599 --> 00:50:00,440
culture, different politics, different lifestyle. All of that is just so different.

663
00:50:00,320 --> 00:50:04,199
So on that note, it's perfectly
kuth, and Jermaine is about to

664
00:50:04,239 --> 00:50:07,599
ask what year you were born.
I was born in nineteen ninety seven,

665
00:50:07,679 --> 00:50:10,800
so I'll bok twenty seven or sorry, twenty yeah, twenty seven this year,

666
00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:15,519
which is crazy. So you're like
early gen Z, right, so

667
00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:17,480
I am the first Yeah. Depending
on who you ask, the definition has

668
00:50:17,559 --> 00:50:22,639
changed, but the generally accepted definition
is that gen Z was starting in nineteen

669
00:50:22,719 --> 00:50:24,320
ninety seven. So those of us
that'll be turning twenty seven this year,

670
00:50:24,599 --> 00:50:29,679
all the way down to about twenty
twelve after that is a whole crop of

671
00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:34,400
kids called jen Alpha, and they
started the Elpha get over they did.

672
00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:37,320
They are the children of millennials,
so I always say give them a few

673
00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:40,599
extra prayers because they're probably gonna need
it. Okay, so do you?

674
00:50:40,719 --> 00:50:45,719
So you probably don't remember nine to
eleven very well, if at all.

675
00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:47,639
I have a very vague, fuzzy
memory of nine to eleven. I love

676
00:50:47,679 --> 00:50:52,199
this question, actually because I wrote
a whole chapter of my book about different

677
00:50:52,199 --> 00:50:54,800
stages of gen Z and what we
remember versus don't. The oldest among us

678
00:50:54,840 --> 00:50:59,039
have a fuzzy memory of the world
before nine to eleven, but not really.

679
00:50:59,079 --> 00:51:01,599
I mean that was part of our
earliest memory building, and really after

680
00:51:01,679 --> 00:51:06,280
that. Look at people like my
youngest sister who's twenty one, she doesn't

681
00:51:06,280 --> 00:51:10,400
really remember watching movies on VHS or
having to go to Blockbuster to rent things.

682
00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:15,719
You know, there's this whole difference
in the term digital natives that a

683
00:51:15,719 --> 00:51:19,239
lot of people in the journalism space
are using for the younger cohorts of gen

684
00:51:19,360 --> 00:51:23,119
Z than those of us who remember
landline phones and when YouTube was Charlie bit

685
00:51:23,199 --> 00:51:28,960
my finger or Unicorn dancing around on
your screen rather than your favorite news source.

686
00:51:29,559 --> 00:51:30,960
Yeah, I was actually gonna just
ask about that. I think,

687
00:51:31,119 --> 00:51:34,440
you know, a lot of people
use nine eleven as the dividing line,

688
00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:38,400
as you discuss in the book,
and it's definitely an important I mean Euphoria,

689
00:51:38,480 --> 00:51:44,679
for example, the first episode starts
with you know being born in the

690
00:51:45,079 --> 00:51:49,519
hospital as her parents and Euphoria are
watching news of what's happening on nine to

691
00:51:49,559 --> 00:51:52,519
eleven, So it is important.
One of the things I think might actually

692
00:51:52,599 --> 00:51:57,639
even be more important, though,
is if you don't remember a world before

693
00:51:57,760 --> 00:52:00,599
Wi Fi because Wi Fi's art phones, maybe at the same time. But

694
00:52:00,840 --> 00:52:06,559
Wi Fi is what sort of made
everything. It was like you used to

695
00:52:06,599 --> 00:52:08,639
always be on a leash. It
was the same thing with phones, you

696
00:52:08,679 --> 00:52:12,960
know, when phones went wireless.
I think that was probably like in seventies

697
00:52:13,039 --> 00:52:15,480
or eighties something like that. But
when when phones went wireless, you didn't

698
00:52:15,599 --> 00:52:20,239
have to stand by the phone,
you didn't have to have it on your

699
00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:22,800
lap, in a chair or be
you know, have one of those long,

700
00:52:22,840 --> 00:52:24,199
stretchy chords that you could, you
know, maybe put the phone in

701
00:52:24,199 --> 00:52:28,440
the kitchen and walk the living room
something like that. That's a huge difference

702
00:52:28,440 --> 00:52:31,840
in how you use a phone.
But when it all just came off the

703
00:52:31,960 --> 00:52:36,719
leash, that was Wi Fi.
That was you know, being able to

704
00:52:36,800 --> 00:52:39,159
be on the Internet in the car, being able to you know, watch

705
00:52:39,199 --> 00:52:44,679
YouTube videos, being like it just
put everything mobile, the entire power of

706
00:52:44,719 --> 00:52:49,039
the Internet everywhere. And I feel
like a lot of gen z not in

707
00:52:49,079 --> 00:52:52,159
a bad way, but just naturally
takes that for granted because they did not

708
00:52:52,400 --> 00:52:55,639
see what the world was like before
that. And maybe the same thing with

709
00:52:55,719 --> 00:53:00,039
smartphones. Those I'm curious for your
perspective. Those are the two things I

710
00:52:59,880 --> 00:53:06,639
think really like in terms of people's
daily lives dramatically changed the world, and

711
00:53:06,719 --> 00:53:09,599
some people in your generation in gen
Z like genuinely are on the other side

712
00:53:09,639 --> 00:53:16,119
of that and don't know what life
was like before you carried the entire knowledge,

713
00:53:16,159 --> 00:53:20,400
the sum total of human knowledge,
in your pocket and can access it

714
00:53:20,480 --> 00:53:23,119
at any given point in time.
I will forever remember, Emily. I

715
00:53:23,159 --> 00:53:28,760
was in sixth grade when a girl
in my class got the very first iPhone,

716
00:53:29,119 --> 00:53:31,639
and she was the only person in
our school that had an iPhone,

717
00:53:31,679 --> 00:53:36,960
and everyone was obsessed with seeing what
this thing could do. Really, at

718
00:53:36,960 --> 00:53:39,760
the time, the most revolutionary app
on the iPhone was the zip, a

719
00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:44,519
lighter app that you could hold up
at a concert and act like you had

720
00:53:44,559 --> 00:53:46,079
a lighter in your pocket, but
it was on your phone, and the

721
00:53:46,159 --> 00:53:51,199
games were very rudimentary. It was
mostly for gaming and entertainment more than anything.

722
00:53:51,760 --> 00:53:55,760
But I will forever remember everyone just
being completely enthralled with this little brick

723
00:53:55,800 --> 00:54:00,760
in your pocket that was going to
change everything. Sold heartedly agree. I

724
00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:05,039
think smartphones and Wi Fi, coupled
with the rise of social media, have

725
00:54:05,199 --> 00:54:08,719
really changed how we interact with the
world and how we consume information. There

726
00:54:08,880 --> 00:54:12,880
was a comedian and for the life
of me, I can't remember who said

727
00:54:12,880 --> 00:54:15,440
this, but doing a roundtable on
a podcast a few months ago that said

728
00:54:15,440 --> 00:54:22,679
something so earth shattering to me about
this subject. He said, you know,

729
00:54:22,760 --> 00:54:25,880
gen Z, for the first time
ever in human experience, every single

730
00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:30,360
night is having to make a decision
between the sum total of all of the

731
00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:35,800
information and the history of the universe
and oblivion. When they go to sleep

732
00:54:35,800 --> 00:54:39,440
every night, they have to tear
themselves away from this magic machine that can

733
00:54:39,480 --> 00:54:44,679
give you the answers to any question
in all of human history, or help

734
00:54:44,719 --> 00:54:49,719
you imagine any possible future for the
rest of human history, and closing your

735
00:54:49,719 --> 00:54:53,000
eyes and seeing the back of your
eyelids and no wonder. We're struggling with

736
00:54:53,119 --> 00:54:57,960
how to balance that no wonder that's
become such an addictive force in our lives.

737
00:54:58,320 --> 00:55:01,559
Now, I think we really face
the question culturally and ethically, how

738
00:55:01,599 --> 00:55:06,519
do we continue to navigate technology as
a tool for good, as a force

739
00:55:06,599 --> 00:55:09,079
for change, because obviously, with
the rise of AI and a lot of

740
00:55:09,159 --> 00:55:13,840
these technological advances, we're concerned about
what that looks like for those who come

741
00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:16,960
after us. So as annoyed as
everybody is with gen Z always having our

742
00:55:17,000 --> 00:55:21,480
nose in a phone and having a
hard time tearing ourselves away from screens.

743
00:55:21,760 --> 00:55:23,960
I think it really is going to
fall into the lapse of our generation to

744
00:55:24,039 --> 00:55:30,960
create this sense of responsible navigation for
technological advances, for Gen Alpha, for

745
00:55:30,039 --> 00:55:35,159
our children later on, and for
every generation to come. Well, is

746
00:55:35,159 --> 00:55:42,039
there anything else you think is misunderstood
about gen Z? Is there anything you

747
00:55:42,440 --> 00:55:45,480
think that when people maybe rage against
gen Z? We've covered a lot of

748
00:55:45,480 --> 00:55:46,760
ground, and I know you cover
a lot of ground in the book,

749
00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:52,320
but is there anything else that we
haven't touched on that you just think people

750
00:55:52,400 --> 00:55:54,760
should know as they consider, you
know, where gen Z could be going

751
00:55:54,760 --> 00:55:58,639
with their politics, and even as
they vote, you're sort of in the

752
00:55:58,639 --> 00:56:02,840
culture war with their daily lives,
getting married, having kids. What don't

753
00:56:02,880 --> 00:56:09,280
people get? The generational disconnect and
frankly, just complete misunderstanding that I see

754
00:56:09,280 --> 00:56:15,320
about gen Z is astounding. Every
day I'm often asked to represent the voice

755
00:56:15,320 --> 00:56:20,320
of our generation and traditional media doing
radio and TV and print media as well,

756
00:56:20,760 --> 00:56:23,599
and the questions that I get from
a lot of these older hosts and

757
00:56:24,039 --> 00:56:30,920
particularly TV personalities are fascinating because it
shows me that there really is this complete

758
00:56:30,559 --> 00:56:36,360
alter ego image that I think has
been imposed on gen Z versus who we

759
00:56:36,480 --> 00:56:39,679
actually are. I asked my followers
a few months ago, if you're not

760
00:56:39,880 --> 00:56:45,159
gen Z, use a word to
describe who our generation is, like what

761
00:56:45,239 --> 00:56:47,679
immediately comes to mind, And if
you are a gen Zer, do the

762
00:56:47,719 --> 00:56:52,599
exact same thing. And the answers
were just shocking to me. Those older

763
00:56:52,639 --> 00:56:58,119
than us said that we were anxious, doomed, weak, delusional, immature,

764
00:56:58,280 --> 00:57:04,159
immoral, egocentric, and self obsessed
countless others, whereas gen z Is

765
00:57:04,199 --> 00:57:08,920
called ourselves motivated, curious, entrepreneurial, worthy, ready, passionate, chosen.

766
00:57:09,360 --> 00:57:15,079
And I think there's just such a
stark optimism difference between those older than

767
00:57:15,159 --> 00:57:17,559
us in the faith that they have
and the change we can make in the

768
00:57:17,559 --> 00:57:22,679
world, versus the call to action
that we see from within our own generation

769
00:57:22,159 --> 00:57:25,920
to try to take back the driver's
seat of American culture. Again. It's

770
00:57:27,000 --> 00:57:30,440
really uncomfortable, I think for a
lot of people in American politics, particularly

771
00:57:30,480 --> 00:57:36,599
on the right to seed, to
giving the stage to the next generation,

772
00:57:36,840 --> 00:57:40,079
or even sharing the microphone with the
next generation. And I think that's because

773
00:57:40,199 --> 00:57:45,159
at least within the last several generations, there's been this preconceived notion in Washington

774
00:57:45,239 --> 00:57:50,440
that frankly, I encountered quite frequently
working at the US Senate and the White

775
00:57:50,440 --> 00:57:52,679
House in college, that if you're
young, you have to quote unquote do

776
00:57:52,840 --> 00:57:58,639
your time and prove your loyalty and
your worth to American politics. If you

777
00:57:58,639 --> 00:58:00,480
work on the hill or spend any
time on the hill, there's this assumption

778
00:58:00,559 --> 00:58:04,840
that you have to be an unpaid
intern first, and then maybe, if

779
00:58:04,880 --> 00:58:07,159
you're lucky, you'll be an assistant
somewhere in somebody's office. And then maybe

780
00:58:07,159 --> 00:58:10,440
you'll get to be a legislative aid
and start writing bills. And if you're

781
00:58:10,480 --> 00:58:14,679
really lucky and you really stick it
out, making thirty thousand dollars a year,

782
00:58:14,719 --> 00:58:16,159
you might be able to be a
chief of staff. And then if

783
00:58:16,199 --> 00:58:19,920
you get the blessing of the party, you can run for office yourself.

784
00:58:20,320 --> 00:58:22,239
And we think that that's the way
it's always been done, and that's what's

785
00:58:22,239 --> 00:58:30,679
culturally acceptable in American politics, that
those older automatically are wiser because age equals

786
00:58:30,679 --> 00:58:35,360
wisdom. But I would actually argue
that life experience equals wisdom, not inherently

787
00:58:35,400 --> 00:58:37,119
age. I mean, for goodness
sakes, look at our old president of

788
00:58:37,159 --> 00:58:42,039
the United States. In American history
today, there's not a lot of wisdom

789
00:58:42,079 --> 00:58:46,119
happening there. But actually, when
I started doing research about the foundation of

790
00:58:46,159 --> 00:58:51,199
our country and really where young voices
have always played a part, I was

791
00:58:51,239 --> 00:58:57,559
astounded to have my preconceived notions about
the role of young patriots in American culture

792
00:58:57,679 --> 00:59:01,519
challenged. When I ask high schoolers
and college students to describe what the founding

793
00:59:01,599 --> 00:59:07,679
fathers looked like when I speak on
campus, the answer is almost always invariably

794
00:59:07,880 --> 00:59:13,719
in unison robotic, old white men. And I think we get this image

795
00:59:13,800 --> 00:59:19,000
from the illustrations in our APUs history
textbooks, are paintings that we see at

796
00:59:19,239 --> 00:59:22,840
art galleries in Washington, d C. Marble busts of the most important figures

797
00:59:22,880 --> 00:59:28,599
in our nation's history, and we
assume that they're these sagging, geriatric,

798
00:59:28,800 --> 00:59:35,679
completely culturally out of touch individuals who
couldn't possibly understand building a society to stand

799
00:59:35,719 --> 00:59:37,639
the test of time rather than just
for the time that they were living in.

800
00:59:38,000 --> 00:59:42,159
But if you actually do a little
bit of research, one Google search

801
00:59:42,239 --> 00:59:45,280
is all it takes, or perhaps
I should say TikTok search these days.

802
00:59:45,840 --> 00:59:51,320
On July fourth, seventeen seventy six, James Monroe was only eighteen years old.

803
00:59:51,639 --> 00:59:54,400
Aaron Burr was only twenty. John
Marshall was twenty, Nathan Hale was

804
00:59:54,440 --> 01:00:00,199
twenty one before becoming the smash star
of a Broadway hit musical. Alexander Hamilton

805
01:00:00,320 --> 01:00:05,519
was only twenty one years old on
July fourth, seventeen seventy six. Betsy

806
01:00:05,639 --> 01:00:08,639
Ross was twenty four, James Madison
was younger than I was at twenty five,

807
01:00:09,119 --> 01:00:13,920
and Thomas Jefferson, who wrote the
Declaration of Independence, was only thirty

808
01:00:13,960 --> 01:00:19,559
three years old on July fourth,
seventeen seventy six. These weren't these entrenched,

809
01:00:19,840 --> 01:00:25,480
powerful bureaucrats building the radical idea of
the American experiment when we declared our

810
01:00:25,519 --> 01:00:31,000
independence from Great Britain. These were
ragtag, punk rock, counter cultural young

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patriots who were literally sticking it to
the man of those older than them in

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01:00:37,119 --> 01:00:40,719
power, demanding a better change for
the future generations who would come after us.

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01:00:42,119 --> 01:00:45,639
Vivek Ramaswami had said throughout his presidential
campaign before he suspended it, that

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01:00:45,719 --> 01:00:51,519
we're in a seventeen seventy six moment
in twenty twenty four, and I think

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01:00:51,559 --> 01:00:57,199
when we use these burbiages like culture
war or revolution or even seventeen seventy six

816
01:00:57,320 --> 01:01:00,920
moment, people think we're being hyperbolic, but quite literally. It was Thomas

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01:01:01,000 --> 01:01:07,079
Jefferson who, in the Declaration of
Independence reminded us it is the obligation and

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01:01:07,239 --> 01:01:12,519
right of the people to challenge to
change, or at least alter, a

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01:01:12,599 --> 01:01:16,239
government that is no longer securing your
God given rights in society. And I

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01:01:16,280 --> 01:01:21,559
think that's exactly what we're seeing play
out today. But I hope that those

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01:01:21,639 --> 01:01:25,400
older than us can see a glimmer
of opportunity and a return to our roots

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01:01:25,519 --> 01:01:30,000
of true American traditionalism, to bring
young voices to the table again, because

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01:01:30,039 --> 01:01:35,119
even before we were formally a country, that's exactly who was fighting for us

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01:01:35,119 --> 01:01:38,719
to get here in the first place. Isabel Brown, the book once again

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01:01:38,920 --> 01:01:45,719
is called The End of the Alphabet, How gen Z Can Save America?

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01:01:45,159 --> 01:01:49,039
Where can people find you again?
On social media as well? I am

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01:01:49,079 --> 01:01:52,679
across platforms at the Isabelle Brown,
and tune into our livestream if you want

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01:01:52,719 --> 01:01:57,280
to hear what's going on in culture
from a gen Z perspective every day at

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01:01:57,280 --> 01:02:00,480
three pm Eastern. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for joining the

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01:02:00,480 --> 01:02:02,440
show. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it. Of course,

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01:02:02,599 --> 01:02:07,559
you have been listening to another edition
of the Federalist Radio Hour. I'm Emily

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01:02:07,599 --> 01:02:09,760
Dashinsky, culture editor here at the
Federalist. We'll be back soon with more.

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01:02:09,920 --> 01:02:14,559
Until then, be lovers of freedom
and anxious