You're listening to the Paranormal UK Radio Network, the best in paranormal talk radio
in the UK and around the world. Paranormal Dimensions is fortnightly on Mondays on
the Paranormal UK Radio Network. Listen to them, she listen enough to night.
What music day? I am dracular. I bid you welcome. It's
really good to see you are. I don't know what happened to the driver
and my luck each and well, and with all this, I thought I
was in the wrong place. I bid you welcome. Spooky. Tell me,
young man, what new reports are you getting on Unidentified Flying up Jects?
Hello, and welcome to the show. I'll have to apologize if you
were expecting this show last week, I'm afraid I wasn't very well, so
it got delayed by a week. So here we are this week. So
we were running a week late. I was actually at the Festival of the
Unexplained last week and I was trying to get well in time for that.
In actual fact, just about made it. But today's guest is Neil's story,
and I actually spent quite a bit of time with him there because that's
where he was a period. So you'll hear us talking about the Festival The
Unexplained coming up, but we've actually been and done that now. So now
Neil's Story has just brought a new book out on Brown Stoker, and while
we were at the Festival of the Unexplained, he actually told me that the
initial print run of twenty thousand copies I've already sold out. Neil presented me
with a copy at the event, so I'm very fortunate to have a It's
number fourteen of twin of the first edition print offs. Are very honored,
So no doubt we'll be talking a bit about Bram Stoker during this show.
And also Neil's been working on a new UFO book too, so we'll be
talking about UFOs. From Dracula to UFOs, we'll be talking about on this
show. Anyway. My apologies again if you were expecting the show last week,
but you've had to wait till this week, so I'd got to bring
on today's guests, mister Neil's Story. Hello, Neil, welcome back to
the show. Hi David. Great to be on the show again. It's
wonderful to welcome your back. We had a little busy ourselves together to the
Cold War Museum recently and which which I'm yeah, which unfortunately we weren't allowed
to get to weapons storage area, which you was kind of hoping for.
But it always seems an excuse. They say that they have a tour there
that takes two or three hours. Great, but you can't see the weapons
storage area where the rendels from incident has a part of the story where the
stranger fo shine it it's beam of light. Was quite a considerable nuclear storage
area. Oh no, no, no, it's it's under repair. Oh
no, security won't let you through. Oh no, come on god.
Yeah, it's a real shame. But was that because yeah, you kind
of made the trip especially for it, didn't you? Even? Yeah,
I mean I realized that they do have an issue that they don't don't have
a huge number of volunteers, and they should because it's a supermuseum run by
really lovely people. There's there's a lot of goodwill will there and I actually
wouldn't have anything said it against them. I think they have to fight against
bureaucracy and all sorts of things. Yeah. Absolutely, I can't get access
to and maybe there are security questions why we aren't, But but there are
photographs of the nuclear weapons storage facility at Woodbridge. On the internet, they're
on documentaries. Why we can't access that quite easily, I don't know,
really. I don't know if it's because they have to run a bus out
to it, because it is a bit of it is a bit of a
trot and I know I'm pretty sure that a couple of quite a few years
back. I'm sure I went out on the bus for it, and I
remember it was poor rain. Yeah, yeah, I mean, I won't
have a word sense said against the team at the Cold War Museum because they're
a good bunch there. They really are nice people. It's a cracking It's
a cracking museum, isn't it. Oh So it's wonderful going up into the
several tubs, as you know, I've never been before, and you walk
in the main door for the exhibition area and you're straight in. They don't
they don't pull any punches. Straight in with Rendelsh, some incidents, newspaper
cuttings and the most fantastic little set up. It looked very much like the
Roswell alien footage. But they've got a mannequin. It's a pretty good product.
It As you look through the glass door and it's got a station dost
thing and it's so you can't know. Was it a caution? There's something
on the door. Yeah, yeah, it's quite effective. As as soon
as you walk in the door. I guess we will talk in case someone
doesn't know what we're talking about here. It's actually the Cold War Museum was
actually the it's on the on the Bentwater there's a Woodbridge Air base where the
render from Forest incident from nineteen eighty occurred. This actually the base has been
closed down now and I think a lot of it is a film museum.
Will say movie, it's a music it's a movie set. I I don't
believe all sorts of filming over the years. Indeed, a few moons ago
I filmed there when they were making a documentary one of the TV channels about
the Waco massacre, and I played one of the ATF officers involved with the
case and I had to kick in a window and as I enter the room,
I've got a big blood bag on my leg and suddenly that explodes.
It's blood all over this shop, but I've got to keep firing, and
my bloody chups me a magazine and oh my word, and I thought,
what a great idea. After the filming too, they said, do you
want to get changed? I said, well, I'll get changed, but
I leave the blood on because my son's a lovely lad but he likes that
boisey sort of activity. Wouldn't that be fun If I come home and I've
got blood all up my leg all over my face from an action scene,
Lawrence would love to see that. I got home great, Yet have a
look at Dad. It's like, oh, it's coming in blood. Great?
And then I go into the shower to remove my trousers and they're coming
in blood. And I discover that to film and TV, blood can stage
quite a lot of sugar, and when that's allowed to dry over the hour
or two journey to get home, that causes your leg hair to stick a
lot of super glues in these trailsies and most of my leg hair came off
with my track. Yeah, we won't do that again, will you.
I don't know if you know when you've got kids. I've got two little
granddaughters now, and if I just had to show them the lower leg with
a bit of a crazy injury shown on there, do you know what?
I'd do all the same again. But they wouldn't see wouldn't see grand head
in the shower. Grand that's one. And I guess that was before you
had your trademark stars as well. It's PM years that is primus starch.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, well I used to do back in the nineties
and early two thousands, I used to do quite a lot of film work
as an extra I had. I worked at the Civil Service and that was
all right, but I always had a sort of part of me that enjoyed
a bit more adventure and a bit and and a lot of the chaps in
those days in in the civil Service, it was quite quite a male orientated
place in those days. At Her Majesty's Stationary Office in Knowledge, there were
there were a lot if we had angly A TV in Knowledge as well in
those days, So if there was some sort of filming work going on,
you'd lose half of certain departments of Her Majaey's davery others that would be called
to do a crowd scene for Anglia TV's Tales of the Unexpected the Chief or
a host of documentaries and all sorts of stuff. It was great fun.
It was great fun. It was a very welcome one hundred and twenty pounds
per day to literally have a little bit of TV work. I was in.
Well, that wasn't bad money bad then, was it? Really?
He couldn't knock it, you know. And if you've got a young family,
you thought to add, you know, maybe a third or a quarter
of your wage on onto your packet agains. Literally messing around for a day,
that'll do me. It was great fun. I got to meet some
wonderful people that BBC used to film Love Joy in the area in those days,
and if there was an auction scene or any sort of crowd or some
sort of action, that'd often call on us and I was be There's one
great one of the last episodes of a series with Joanna Soala, there was
a Dinsdale landon and we were filming in the Angel Hotel in Barry Saint Edmunds
and all I had to do was put on my work suit and walk the
other way Danna Corridor with Dinsdale land and Joanna Soala going the other way.
And I got walk on two for that because I had to have some sort
of direction and interaction with the with the with the stars, and that was
it, and it was one of the most one of the nicest days ever
in filming because it was coming towards the end of the series and Ian McShane
came down and there was Dudley Sutton and the wonderful Dinsdale Land and Joanna Soala.
It was what Julia Sola forget which one, I'll forgive me that one.
But they were lovely, get lovely, lovely people, happy days and
you know, to spend an afternoon just having a coffee or two with with
people who are or would become legends names. Yeah, exactly. Shane began
as an extra. Yeah, I'm sure it used to be in things like
the old the old shows like The Saints and things like that. Have any
discrimination, I mean, everybody, if you've got a job to do,
when you've got to do a reset, that that's that's that's that's fine that
you'd have to grab your lunch and go quickly. But there was no hierarchy
that you'd really feel on location in McShane would just make sure everybody's treated with
the same the same respect, and you had to, you know, everybody
had to respect each other. Yeah, that's what should be. Oh God,
was it wasn't it? It was just a lovely environment to be part
of making a TV show that was phenomenally successful and popular in its day.
It was filmed all over Norfolk and Suffolk she Beck. In those days,
he was actually I can't remember if there'd been any violence in it, but
it was. I remember the stories being very good about to antiques and things
like that. Well, they were clever, they were clever. It was.
It was a set. You didn't need any murders. I like Midsummer
murders. It was just little stories about how loved Joy, although he was
a bit of a boy, would turn the story around and kind of make
things all right. If somebody's been ripped off, he's going to turn it
around, make it all right, but also make sure he spins himself a
little bit of money out of it. Yeah, I've seen a few episodes
again when they do the reruns, and yeah, do you know what they
stand up And many years later, I've done a few episodes of love Joy
and a lovely actress called Phillip Slogan. She she played one of these ladies
of the manor that love Joy his love interest to I maybe met Phyllis once
or twice on location. I did another filming job for All the King's Men,
and she remembered me. She was just lovely. She she was good
fun, she spoke with a very nice accent in the show, which she's
Scottish by birth, and it was just lovely to see her and remember those
times. That's how friendly that that set was. Happy days now he goes,
by the sound of it, do you know you don't need them.
I've been really lucky. Do you know I'm no sham and said saying,
I've been a supporting our teeth, do you know? And over those years
I got to meet some of the biggest names in TV and film and subsequently
as an advisor. Yeah, I've met them too. I've met some of
the nicest people along the way. It's sometimes there are people in the middle
ground trying to to make it on the way up, and they are there's
very very few of them who really are quite unpleasant. But those that have
made it, people like David Jason's absolutely lovely, a lovely man, lovely
man, Ian McShane, absolutely lovely Martin Shaw. We did several series of
The Chief I as a tactical farms officer in that just just one of a
team as young fellows leaping around and firing blanks off and jumping out of fans
and messing about it. It was great, great fun. I guess somebody's
old series. I don't think I ever saw a chief, to be honest,
I remember him in or what was the other thing that The Professionals,
That's right, The Professionals was Martin Shaw's big break. Remember him seeing him
in there? Really and although he does a very good banquet in a I
think it's a TV film version of The Scottish Player, and he was very
very good in that. I'll tell you change modest and kind man change with
Martin Shaw. Actually I actually saw him on stage playing elvisa all things God.
Yeah, yeah. I think it was called You're Lonesome Tonight and went
it on back in the early eighties or little mid eighties. I think it
was with that well. It was actually quite good, to be honest,
it was actually, I mean, multy shure. It was nothing like Elvis,
of course, but I suppose we're a wig and he's hearing a bit
of makeup and from a distance they kind of made him look like it.
It wasn't a music or as such. It was like it was supposed to
be like the final final few hours of Elvis. Basically, you know,
it's sort of you know, that's kind of what it was. It was
a bit of bad language in it and everything, but yeah, I can
remember it was good and being quite impressed with it the way he did it.
But you wouldn't have put that down to multi Shan, would you,
you know? But do you know, we don't we Marty sure that that's
a completely different person. He lives in Norfolk, not far from Windham,
where for a little while back in the day, I was often round in
Windham and I encountered Cat I was a close friend with him, but I
encountered Martin and his wife, who also works in TV as a presenter.
And she's absolutely lovely, real sunbeam, smile lady. And it was funny
that she'd smile and get on mark and be ever so quiet, ever so
quiet, but just nice, just a really nice presence. He's got nothing
to prove, never overbearing, but a man of immense feeling for for people
you know, and the world around him. It's such a kind, kind
soul. It's nice to hear, isn't it. Actually, Well, it
is, and it's the same with David Jason, such a lovely man.
When we were filming All the King's Men, I kind of stuck with David
a bit. I kind of played his batman. He wanted to get a
flavor for flavor for Norfolk and Norfolk history. And my great granddad had been
in the old fifth Battalion and it was the story of them over in Gallipoli
and supposedly disappearing, you know. And I think Nigel McCreery did a very
good job on the original book, and Nigel was on set and David was
there, so yeah, it was a really nice time. It was,
and we filmed in the UK, we filmed in Spain. We couldn't film
the scenes over in Turkey because they landed in Gallipoli. But it was a
great experience and getting to know David was lovely. I used to really his
putties up for him in the morning, just like a good batman would make
sure he's all smart. You'll never get off of yourself. Of course on
the way after, well, you know, you never see his tie out
of place, I'll tell you. And that's me making sure of that because
the wardrobe team are really nice and it was it's a nice feeling to be
part of that. But David Jason is such a He came up, you
know, from a repertory an ordinary actor, and worked his way up to
be an absolute national treasure. Yeah. I actually I can remember the very
early days of Daby Jason when he was he used to drive a little bubble
car in a comedy show. I can't think what it was called. Yeah
it was. It was like one of these sort of early the Whole four.
I think it was a BBC show. It was called but the Yeah,
oh wonderful. But as way before the days of Only Fools and Hall
season, I will absolutely And he's in one episode of Randol and hop character
seats. I saw that. Well remember that in the old day spot David
loves scuba diving. That's it. You wouldn't think so, would you.
Well, you know, you could assume a lot of people things about a
person by the personas that they play. But he had injured his back with
scuba diving not long before we were filming, and my back at that time,
and I've actually discovered the main problem was actually my hips. I had
to have a replacement hip, but that caused me a lot of pain.
So we found this kind of link that I was this young guy with a
back is shoe and whatever, and he's got a tailble backage. But neither
of us wanted it to impinge on what we were trying to do. I
certainly wanted to be part of the show, and it meant a lot to
him to be part of the drama. So we kind of helped each other
and that was great. So if, for example, there was one scene
they supposedly were going into battle and suddenly you had to hit the deck as
the cloud of the battlefield, a part of the legend came over us,
and David has to go down. He's got a crash match, you see,
which is great because he's the main star. I'm going to look after
him, but because I've got a Dickie hip, I land beside him this
time is batman. I'm never far from David. But it also means that
very discreetly, I'm a little bit better off than David with my mobility,
so I'm able to get up quickly and help him up. So we helped
each other. I didn't have to land on a on a rough, horrible
terrain, would do absolutely right. And he loved he loved that side of
it, and I loved him to bits a very kind and generous man.
And we won't forget that. We haven't sort of gone into I don't.
We haven't got into the world that are paranormal just yet. But it's nice
to see a little bit of insight into you, don't. Yeah, that's
the way I look at it. Why not? Why not? Well,
no, I think it's the way it should be done anyway. I don't.
I know the last time you came on, I don't think we sort
of went as far back into your history, if you like. There's that,
But I think it's great to sort of do get a little bit of
an insight into somebody now. I know when when you were last on,
you were talking a bit about the that you were actually working on a Bram
Stoker book, but you were you were working on the biography. Now I
believe that's just on its way out now, isn't it. It will It
will be what we are recording today, which is the twenty night. I
think to my is tomorrow the last of the month. No, not quite,
because I'm off too. We were talking a little bit about that.
I'm off to Romania on the my words first or second of the weeb.
So we've got a few this month. Yeah, we've got a couple of
those to go yet. Yes, Bram Stoker, author of Drag Dracula The
Illustrated Biography, it's due for publication. In fact, I've had my first
twenty copies through, most of which are now sold. Because I thought,
well, there are going to be people interested, hash we put me on
one aside David, you asked for one and side for you. Thank you.
We'll sort that out later, thinking well, it's been absolutely brilliant.
It's going to be released in America very soon. It's it's really the UK
release, but some people over in the States, you know that they want
the first first for anything, and I have to say I know that feeling
myself, and so yes, they've been copies go over to America, they've
been copies going over to the Republic of Ireland, Northern Ireland, all across
Great Britain, in one over to Wales, and we've got one copy even
north of the border over in Scotland. Absolutely brilliant, Yes, yeah,
and everyone. What I have done is that the first twenty copies I've numbered
them so you'll get a signature, and one of them is for you.
You get a signature, it's it's best wishes Nils in our story. That's
how I signed my name twenty twenty three. But then it will say one
of and then it will be it could be one of twenty or number five
of twenty eleven of twenty. So they are really really special. Yeah,
so this first edition's number that's lovely and well they are actually the advanced copies
because officially it's not even published yet, but I've got a batch really for
the paramet where we're going to launch it. But I thought, well,
there will be people who cannot make the paramet, so I put it on
my Facebook if you would like one. You know, it dropped me a
light. I couldn't believe I'm quickly so many of them, so it was
deeply touching. But I could imagine it's could be a big seller actually because
brem Stroke is obviously a very popular character in the history of books and write
and also writing horror stories and things like that, isn't he So I quite
agree. I don't think we would have the vampire horror genre, and in
fact, because Drack is such a powerful character, contentiously speaking, I think
he's more of a an even more powerful character with a mass appeal than even
Frankenstein's. Mary Sherley's book is a classic, without doubt. It's it's a
journey of a man who challenges God and the power of life and death,
and quite rightly it is a Gothic horror classic. But for my money,
the figure that touches me and no doubt millions of others more, it's dracular
because Dracula is not killed in a firing windmill or boy whatever. Means that
the films and dramas have killed killed off the monster Dracula is. He keeps
coming back in a variety of forms and guysers. And you know, you
can see how the Gothic horror genre has taken vampires to think everything from Blade
to and Rice and the stats and these in quick the Vampire Diaries, and
you'll even get sparkly vampires now in Twilight. But even Buffy the vampire slab,
all of this, I would argue, would not have existed, or
certainly not in this more dramatic form, if it had not been for Bram
Stokers eighteen ninety seven Classic Dracula. I agree completely and In fact, when
you hear the name bram Stoker, immediately did the name Dracula comes to mind?
And if you hear the name Dracula, bram Stoker immediately comes to mind.
So in my mind the two go hand in hand. I do absolutely.
I think probably brown Stoker is probably the most well known for like that's
for having the name linked to a particular book. I think you're probably right.
I think Mary Shelley is most certainly in the same way linked to Frankenstein.
But with no other horror monsters, Beard, Awarewolf or whatever. Can
zombies? I mean zombie is a reanimated body. I mean that's in many
ways a by product of the vampire contagion. But let's talk about the mummy.
Well, the mummy can be found in nineteenth century literature, so Arthur
cul Doyle tells one of the earlier stories of a reanimated mummy, as does
bram Stoke in the Duel of the Seven Stars. I didn't know that was
the first ever. Oh yeah, one of the first ever reanimated mummy.
Fix and books that we know. So there's two, there's me and there's
there's Dracula that you know, really are constructs of our wonderful bram Stoker.
Well, so I guess the whole story and all of that will actually be
in the book. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean the focus
of bram Stoker, author of Dracula, is literally that were I've strongly focused
on Dracular, how he created it, the people that he drew upon to
create his characters. Now, there've been an awful lot of sort of speculation,
both academic and sometimes quite frivolous, about how how bram Stoker created the
characters in his book. But to be honest with you, if you read
his own notes for Dracula, plus his two volu in Biography of Sir Henry
Irving, which at the time of bram Stoker's death was described as his greatest
literary legacy. But if you read those two and the notes for Dracula are
published with notes by Robert eighteen by Saying and Elizabeth Miller, they are excellent
sources to see exactly how did his mind work. I mean too, you
know, it doesn't take too much to find the sources of our brand.
Hm. Also, you did have another book about bram Stoker and Dracula,
and it seems to be the which I don't you when we were talking about
it didn't do very well in Britain because it wasn't really released properly. Well,
well, yes it did, okay, I mean we had advanced orders
around the world, twenty thousand copies. It was great. But the publicity
I don't know quite what they're long. I know that my editor went from
the publishers and sadly there wasn't somebody there to foster it through. Maybe that
was partly part of it. It seems odd to me that some people,
I think a lot of people feel that they have an ownership of knowledge of
Dracula, and they've established themselves through good academic speculations, but speculation nonetheless examining
sexual undertones and overtones within the novel, speculating on how bram created these characters,
his motivations. To be honest with you, they hadn't really encountered a
book that draws on bram Stoker's notes and bram Stoker's letters. Now, I'm
was very privileged to have had access. Now that this access was no mean
feat. It took ten years. What had happened was in the in the
year many years decades before Thomas Henry Hall Caine, one of bram Stoker's closest
confidants, one of his dearest friends, and in his day, one of
the greatest authors. It's one of the sad things for Thomas Henry hall Caine
that his books simply have not endured with time. They're often quite well Victorian
in their outlook. They involved love triangles, they often have Christian messages.
There's nothing wrong with that, but it doesn't really appeal to the modern audiences.
So hall Caine, even in literary circles, not that well known.
But he's his foot, he was his play his books were turned into plays.
He wrote for years and years and years, and some of the very
first films that you see being commercially made for circulation films are based on hall
kane novels. Anybody. Hall Kane and Bromstoker corresponded for decades. They were
great friends. But when hall Kane died, his archive was given in entirety
to the Isle of Man archives. He lived on at Grieber Castle on the
Isle of Man. It's where hall Kane's granny and her side of the family
had lived, so it gets left to the nation. But it couldn't be
it couldn't be released. There were I can't go too much into it.
It's nothing too dark. There was sensitive things relating to the family. Nothing
dark, but it just could have caused a lot of hurt. Yeah,
just post all things on stand well. And the point was that, you
know, you couldn't release this until those family members who were involved, and
there weren't many were had passed away and because it had never been sorted,
they weren't sure what was where. But because because of this, oh,
there gets a mistique that it was embargoed or anything else. No, it
wasn't. The deal was, let's let's just leave it and one day we
can sort through it. And so it was around about the year two thousand
it was it was released. Because there was that would have been affected passed
away. It took ten years for the Manx National Archives to sort through the
letters. Some that were deemed could be released a little bit. There was
a biography by Vivian Alan where she told his story and included some of the
letters that were not sensitive, and that was great. I had no idea
of the number of letters involved in my interest. What I realized was from
her book and her appearance on a documentary about actually about Jack the Ripper and
the Special Branch suspect doctor Francis Tumblety, who was revealed with the discovery of
a letter by my very good friend Stuart P. Evans, who wrote The
Lodger, which explored the first American serial killers. We thought then and this
idea that Tumblety was Jack the Ripper, an idea that all these years later,
twenty thirty years later, now it's never been disproved. In fact,
the more you dig, the more you find about Tumblety. But it was
thanks to this documentary that Vivian Allen appeared on their talking about the relationship of
Hall Caine with Francis Tumbleton, and I thought, hang on a minute,
Hall Kane is the dedicatee of Dracula. This man is branst Bram dedicated the
book Dracula to his dear friend. That's out's caption to my dear friend Hommy
Beg h O M M y b e G. And people wondered for many,
many years who was Hommy Beg. Now I have to admit I did
not solve that mystery that was sold a little while before I came onto the
sea. But Hommy beg was most certainly hall Caine, because that word is
Manx. It means little man, young man, and it was the Manx
nickname that hol Kane's granny had for the young Thomas Henry hall Kane. So
it was a wonderful link to find. And I spoke to Wendy Thirkettle at
the Isle of Man Archives and said, look, when is this going to
be released? And we spoke for a number of years. I actually lectured
at King Williams College on the Old Man for a little while for a few
years, actually guest lecture, and I kept in touch with Wendy she and
I said, look, Wendy, is it ready this year? You know,
year after you She said, we're just about there. Come and see
us in and I think it was sometime October September, September October time,
come and see us and we should have it. And actually I helped go
through the very last box of correspondence between hall Kane. That just amazes me
to be able to go through stuff like that. It was absolutely an incredible
honor and I'm incredibly grateful and loyal to that that wonderful relationship with the Manx
National Archives, who trusted me never to abuse that that that privilege and all
I will always give full acknowledgment to them, because thanks to the Manx National
Archives, there's well over fifty letters and telegrams that had never been seen before
that I was able to publish in a book called The Dracula Secrets, which
explored the link between Hall Kane, Bram Stoker and Francis Tumblet. And in
doing so I transcribed transcribed all of these letters and it had has been acknowledged
as the greatest discovery of letters written by a contemporary Jack the Ripper suspect.
You know it's there in black and white. Tumblety is a highly likely suspect
for Special Branch and no one had mean when when I went and found the
cash of letters, little did Ike. I thought it might be ten,
maybe twenty. I didn't think there'd be over fifty of the things. Absolutely,
it was incredible. It was electric. My friend Stuart Evans, who
had made that original discovery, you know every night I'd be in those days
you couldn't easily email anything. I was updating him by telephone. I remember
those days. But you know it's incredible. You know that's over ten years
ago. Now, yeah, but it's quite a difficult to get a hold
of, what doesn't it. I mean, I may to check down a
copy, as you know, a couple of weeks ago, and it's an
almost immaculate, brand new copy. I was amazed it is. And I,
even though it's my book, I think it deserved it deserved to do
better than it did, because it's a beautiful little book. Here, I
agree. Tried to say, oh, there's it was very much like their
their own precious theories about Bram's Stoker, and you can clearly see the influences
that he drew on and loved me in putting mysteries into his books and stuff.
But it was quite clear that they were almost paranoid that, oh my
goodness, all of this academic theory that I've built into my life or even
invested as a reader of Dracord, Oh my goodness. Well that's all right,
not necessarily wrong, but not quite as they thought. And some people
tried to say, oh, no, no, nothing to see here.
It's like stretching your arms out in front of a house on fire, will
wake up, you know, But they didn't want people to. Some others
were wonderful they were full of encouragement and it you know, it did get
some good coverage. And I don't regret anything because I know it's published.
Many others know it's published, and it was very well received among those that
do actually know, and it can be objective to that world. But what
happened was when I was going through the Tumbledy paperwork, I found the Bram
Stoker correspondence, which is far larger and more considerable than the whole Cane and
Tumbledy stuff. You know, this goes from It runs from late eighteen seventies
up to very shortly before Brown Stoker's death in nineteen twelve. The whole came
was a hypochondriac, we know were that. And the tragedy is when Bram
was so very very ill and really should not have traveled to the Isle of
man Hall. Came was supposedly on his deathbed and Bram could have done without
that. It was quite an arduous journey because you've got to kind of cross.
You don't have to get from London to Liverpool and then cross over the
Irish Sea to the Isle of man Bran wasn't well. It was quite a
journey in those days and it could have even shortened his life blessing, but
Bram wouldn't have regretted that because he wanted to be there for a friend that
he believed was dying. In fact, hall Caine lived for a far more
than ten years, longer than poor Bram Stoker. But Bram would not have
regretted that, because he knew what it was to be a true friend.
So I copied, and it's quite a volume of Bram Stoker letters in the
Island of Man than the Man's National Archive. And it's taken quite a lot
of years to get the hang of them. Because my good friend Daker Stoker,
who I acknowledge with my hat off with the warmest of glad hearts,
Bram Stoker's great grand nephew, and really there are no direct descendants left now
of Bram Stoker, and Daker has supported the project throughout. And the problem
is Bram had to write hundreds of letters every single week. Remember this is
Longhand for Sir Henry Irving, because Bram was the acting manager for Sir Henry
Irving, the greater actress, greatest actor of his day at the Lyceum Theater,
and he's Bram's handwriting writing at speed. Even Brown would joke, you
know, it is very diff called to decipher and Daker and I call it
Stoker ease because it's so hard and so tricky. But we've done it.
We've transcribed the letters and there's some really lovely insights into Bram in sickness and
in health, and it even shows how he wrote to hall Caine too,
because hall Caine. A lot of people don't realize this, this great author.
Hall Caine and Bram Stoker had met each other as they were on the
cusp of getting somewhere with their writing. Bram had only recently been made acting
manager. He was started. He was looking at his first fiction work in
book form. He had written articles for years and short stories for magazines for
years and years, but this is this is the first book. It's called
Under the Sunset. It's a collection of weird stories for kids. That was
Brown's. And hall Caine was just coming from theater critic and article writer to
establishing himself as a great author. And he's got a few books out before
Bram, and he's dedicated books to Brown before Bram Stoker put in the Homi
Beg dedication. Some people even tried to say bat Brown was trying to kind
of leap frog on the shoulders of hall Caine to become one. No,
nothing more distant from the truth could be. He They were friends, very
dear friends. They're rather like Sherlock Holmes and Dr Wattson. They've gone on
theatrical tour. They're trying time it so they could catch up with each other.
Wonderful stuff. Wonderful. I'll just say both you're obviously your latest one
and also the other little dracular book we were talking about, the bram Stoker
one. They're both worth getting. Obviously, if you anyone listen to this,
if you want to track down that's earlier book about bram Stoker and Dracula.
It's a fantastic book to get. It's called The Dracula Secrets. That's
the one Grand Stoker and the darkest sources for Dracula, and then the new
one, and it is. There are some themes that will be included because
they have to be as they were in the previous book, but there's an
awful lot of new material in bram Stoker, author of Dracula. I think
people will be particularly interested to see the long interest that Bram had in Mesmerism
the power of the mind over other people, and that was something that he'd
had for years. He corresponded with one of the founders of the Society for
Psychical Research, and Sir Oliver Lodge. Indeed, Bram was a member of
the Society of Psychic Research himself, and he Bram and Sir Oliver discussed the
idea of how one person's mind could could control another, Was it possible?
And Bram wrote about that in particular, I mean Dracula as elements of this
mind control over So I was just going to say that when you were talking
about that regularly has that? Does he when he stays into the eyes to
a thing? Oh? Absolutely, according to the movie version. Anyway,
Well, it's in the book. And also that this distance power that he
had over Renfield. You know, there's this zoophagus Acolyte. It's an incredible
book for this power of the mind, the power he has over those he
wishes to draw their blood, you know. But this was revisited by Brown
and his last book as well. It's in fact, it's in several of
his books. But Brawn's last book, The Layer of the White Worm,
it goes so far as one of the characters, one of the most sinister
of all kills another character by the power of their mind alone, disturbing stuff
like now that one I do though I have field of that one. I
don't think of it. I'm sure I haven't read it, but there might
be one on my list to actually get ahold of that. There's a film
starving a number of faces that you including including Hugh Grant, which is okay,
But for goodness sake, read the book, don't h't don't leave it
on the shelf, or Biden Howe read because it's interesting. He sets it
in a mysterious place called Mercier. Now Mercier, you might image, might
be over towards the west of Great Britain. But what bram has done is
Mercier. He kind of says, it's over not a long drive away from
Liverpool, but where he's actually set it is Scotland. He in my book,
I draw on some of his letters. He went to stay in a
place called Inchmaralow Castle or Inchmaalow House in Scotland, and you can see it's
on the letter heads. Then he had a wonderful time. He had a
chance to explore Scotland, and he would go from Inchmalow to go and see
the dignitaries at Slain's Castle, and it was just a wonderful base for him.
But he went up to it's called Blair Castle, which is absolutely superb
and Bram describes in Lair of the White Worm this collection of weird and wonderful
antique arms and armory, which you can still see in Blair Castle. And
people may say, ah, yes, Neil, but a lot of Scottish
castles have collections of arms. Ah yes, they may. But then stroll
into the garden, as Bram Stoker did, and you will discover Diana's Grove.
And there is only one Diana's Grove in any castle ground in Scotland,
and I think, for that matter, in Great Britain. And Diana's Grove
is amongst some very tall trees. They're enormously tall. Now, it's some
of the tallest you'll find in all of Scotland in the grounds of Blair Castle.
And it has a statue of the Huntress Diana, her bow and arrow
in hand, and it's still there. You can stand on the spot that
bras Socus stood on, and Diana's Grove is part of the storyline of Lair
of the White Worm, and it's one of the few indications of his true
locations that he drew upon. And if you read the descriptions of the case
at the casta in Lair of the White Worm, you almost certainly record if
you get a picture up, we'll have a look in my book at the
picture of blair Castle. You'll say, oh, yes, that that's that's
his basis for that. Very interesting. Is it's fascinating? Okay, Well,
well, I guess we better talk about your other new book that you're
working on. Dude. I don't think it's actually finished yet, is it.
And you're talking about the Tyne sign triangle. Oh, the time side
triangle, that that will probably be a long term project. Really as I
transcribe the time side UFO Society Archives. Yeah, so we got we go
from that regular to UFOs. Well, why not? Because my life has
been spent uncovering lesser known history, the stories of those who often would not
have a voice, the animals in World War One or World War Two,
the voices of women on the home front and on active service. Two World
wars have been part of my life as a professional historian. Bram Stoke has
been pure pleasure. I have known his most infamous creation since I was a
child in the nineteen seventies and I could see the posters of Hammer horror films
starring Christopher Lee. Oh yeah, I love the effects on my Facebook page,
on my photo section, I've got all. I've got a collection of
all the horror posters because they're fantastic, They're brilliant graphics and they're all a
thing of their time. I've known Bram all of these its years, and
having had a long term interest in Jack the Ripper, you see with the
bram Stoker connection or it was a perfect synergy to create something new. But
when I was working on a First World War project with the City of Newcastle,
I had the honor to work with both my home county of Norfolk and
the City of Newcastle on some very special commemorative events for the centenary of the
First World War and working with that Newcastle Cathedral as well, lovely people up
there. I had the privilege to get into the strong room at Newcastle Library
to get some of the old photograph albums out there, and I saw and
the side of the strong room some boxed filing cabinet, the old sort that
I certainly knew when I was first in the civil service Osworth metal card filing
cabinets. This was a wooden one and you pulled out the file cabinet draw.
Remember this is before the days of computers. My first office job,
I didn't have a computer. I had an in and out tray and a
telephone and I thought that was quite flash. Not even a typewriter. There
was no, no, no. If you wanted anything typed, you had
to write things out longhand placed it into a transit envelope and it would be
sent to a typing pool. It would then be typed, proved red,
and then placed back in the envelope and met and brought to you by messenger,
normally that the afternoon or by the morning at the very latest, if
they were busy, either the same day or the next day. It was
a very different world. No wonder is called snail mel It was yes,
And once you had received it back you had to check it. You had
to sign it, and then you would place it into an envelope which would
have a a banker envelope with a little window in it. It folded up.
It's signed, It folded up, put it in the envelope, and
then it would be sent down to the post room. And in the post
room they had a frank English frank it and if it would it sounds like
the art, doesn't it. Yeah, Well, I don't think anyone anyone
sort of born after the nineteen eighties. I don't think anyone would sort of
recognize that world at all, absolutely right. But that was the one behind
me because I began in something that was known in those days as personnel.
Now I think that sounds far more human, but now it gets tam changed
to human resources nowadays. But in all of these filing cabinets, you know,
they were cards on everybody recording their promotion and where they were working and
all that kind of stuff. Now And actually I was one of the team
who got the whole lot computerized. In fact, I was quite known for
myself in the civil service for doing myself out of a job of computerizing everything
that was put in front of me. But there we are. But I
saw these kind of filing pull it out and on the top of this wooden
box card filing cabinet, four drawers, it said flying source of sightings.
I thought, what the hell's that. And I pulled the drawer and they
have file cards filled with references to sightings of UFOs. Well, to my
delight that every single one of those final cards related to a scrapbook page or
even a file of research carried out out by the Timeside UFO Society absolutely in
an incredible record, not just for the northeast of Britain, but in fact
it covered UFO investigations that were reported in the press from the nineteen fifties right
up to the late sixties early seventies when the archive was handed over to the
library. In fact, we were very lucky to have a gentleman god,
Harry Lord. And Harry Lord was a real scrap booker, so he didn't
just cut out, he stuck in. He dated it, he annotated it,
and sometimes they even followed up local cases by writing or first of August.
The addressers were not always apply, but they locate the witnesses and write
to them, and low and behold, some of them wrote back. It
was a different time, you see. People felt obliged if you hear from
the Time Side UFO Society that you would right back, and yes, you
would expand on the details of what you had seen. They drew what they
had seen in the sky, and that's fantastic. Then add on to that
the archives that I uncovered from another source, which take us back to the
days of the Second World War and the Observer Corps latter part of the war,
Royal Observer Corps, and the reports of what they were seeing. They
had a name for unusual phenomena in the sky and they were known as PHENO.
If you couldn't explain it, it was just simply described as phenomena pheno.
That was the code work. I found reports from eight girls along the
time operate and a lot of the I should think about ninety percent of the
boas balloons were operated by mostly female boshed balloon operators along the time, and
they were reporting this strange object. They were white. More than one instance
of this about the size of an Austin ten cup. They thought it was
a crashing aircraft that would dive towards the ground and it would cut through the
bowrased balloons. You might think they're held on by some sort of hemp rope,
but actually the rope is wire. It's woven in the same way as
a hemp rope because it has many wire strands to it. But they reported
these things going through the wires. Now, the wires on bowrased balloon were
designed to take the wings off bombers and fighter aircraft or the or the aircraft
would get tangled up in that wire and you know, tangled up with the
Boars balloon and the whole lot would go up in a whole ball of flame.
These objects are they're white, they're diving down. They look like well,
people said, is it a crashing aircraft? We don't know. It's
before the days of dual bugs, before the V two rockets are coming out.
They didn't know. But what they did know that this thing would go
through the ropes. It traveled at quite some incredible speed and zip away.
And when they recovered the Boas balloons would either go up in flames or would
drift away. And when they examined the metal woven ropes, they looked like
they had been burnt through. They were rounded, the metal had burnt in
the moments it took to touch it. It was absolutely incredible. So when
it was investigated, it was claimed that these white objects were you're gonna like
this. Remember this is mid World War two, Okay, we're getting nineteen
forty one, forty two, forty three BEERID mid World War two, and
they're saying it's weather balloons. Now we will hear that all again. It
was, well, wouldn't we absolutely? Yeah, Now we have to admit
that there's operation Outward now that's down on the East Anglian coast out of Felix
Stoe. Now the reason why it's coming out of Felix Stoe is because there's
an airstream that goes through there that would take weather balloons and this was top
secret in its day, weather balloons that had incendiary devices attached to them over
really to Germany. And when these balloons and things caught hold of wires,
when they came into contact maybe telephone wires, forests and the like, that's
when the combustible incendury would would would break into flame. And the idea was
that there'd be so many fires started on quite a large scale that it would
distract from the war efforts, you know, that kind of thing. But
what was claimed that all the way from a Felix Stone on the east coast,
you know, on the east coast, but this is you know,
below Norfolk gets around the bend on the eastern counties that they've actually drifted up
to the time. Now that's against the slip streams, but oh no,
it's drifted up to the time. And these weather balloons withincendury devices have got
tangled up with some of the Boar's balloons on the time. And of course
you cannot talk about it, girls, because it's all top secret. Do
you believe it? Yeah, I do believe it. I'll tell you what
I've been in this book. That's company when it is all this stuff?
Is it? Is it like exclusive? Is it? Is it sort of
the first time it's being seen. I've certainly never seen that before in any
way, shape or form. It comes directly from contemporary World War Two reports
that I think we're just filed away. It may not got into any local
UFO magazines and things. Might they ever got that far because there would be
one copy that are sent to report it, and the second copy is retained
by the Observer Corp. And you know, when the Observer Corps closed down,
a lot of things were thrown away. Some were sent away to the
public archives. And these are some of the archives that members took. You
know, the report books that the members took away with them. M it's
amazing really. I mean when you think about all the already UFO reports that
we're we already know about it. They're all famous out there anyway, and
all the other ones that are not so famous. And when we've got all
this and now added material which which you've discovered, it kind of backs up
a lot of things, isn't it that, yes, that something is really
going on. It makes an awful lot of sets And in fact, you
know, with my owner, I'm not the first person to look at the
nineteen o nine Scare ships incidents, but I think I'm one of those that
have certainly looked at it in quite some depth over more recent years, since
more and more newspapers have come online and looking at it now, certainly I've
looked at it like never before, and I can see that from the initial
sightings you know in the springtime with with with PC Kettle in Peterborough that the
sightings carried on through the May, June, July, and they're not restricted
to East Anglia. And in fact there's some extremely convincing sightings that were taking
place with multiple witnesses. The one I don't know whether I've mentioned before to
you the one at Time Dock, which is on you know, on the
on the river Time Time dock mouth of the time. It's if they need
jarrow, it's just across the road across the mouth of the Time. You've
got Jaros slate or Jaros slat beside it. And it's an incredible sighting where
this it's shaped like a Zepplin but it has a beam of light that comes
down that illuminates the Jared's slat in red and it just strikes me as incredible.
This is some sort of red light. It's very very similar. It
does sound familiar to me. I'm not sure if you've actually mentioned it on
the show when we were talking, you know. Yeah, so it's it's
and that's in nineteen hundred and nine, and they're trying to as being an
experimental craft. So we've got and I'm sure if we're really honest, if
we start whining history back, you will find examples in the nineteenth century and
earlier right definitely here. But we can't easy because we must have been an
incredible thing to see these sites that people couldn't easily articulate them. They emit
into the medieval eye. This this is something heavenly, it's a celestial body,
it's a message from God, it's angel's, it's some sort or it
could even be a sort of judgment upon us. So we've got to be
really careful. But in the twentieth century, where more people are looking at
the sky with more critical eye, but with an eye that sort of thinks
about it in it with an H. G. Wells perspective, you know,
it makes G. Wells had published War the World nineteen hundred and nine,
he would published, or at least he who veneered a publishing War in
the Air, which was an incredible vision of aerial warfare being bombs dropped from
above that he would revisit again, you know, in numerous editions, including
one in nineteen thirty nine where Wells said, look, I predicted this fuck
in the early twentieth century, and you did not heed me, you damn
fools. Just I mean, I'll tell you what I often think about things
like that. I always wanted to say, they have some sort of INSI
I had knowledge. You know some of these people. What do you think
do you think it's a possibility? I think H. G. Wells,
writing in the late nineteenth century was a visionary, I really do. He
had this incredible creative mind. I don't know of extensive notes from Wells or
in speaking of how he created the Martians, but there was certainly at that
period in time a great interest rather like Bram Stoker drew on his on the
fears of Jack the Ripper, and this notion of there even being a White
Chapel vampire. Now that wasn't Bram's creation, that was the media. And
I think when we look at the late nineteenth century, as flight starts to
become a possibility more than just a pardon the bud of flight of fantasy,
it becomes a very real possibility that we can have manned flight, and you
know, considering what could happen, I think it was thought that sooner than
the sort of string and canvas affairs, I think the money was on there
being some form of motorized dirigible, a balloon that could kind of lift up.
It could fit a motor to it, and you could guide the thing
around. So in common parlance you called it a zepplin or an airship,
and it's why in the eighteen nineties you will see these instance of Zepplin reports
in the American West. I think even the most ardent of our of us
who believe that there are forces from whether it be inter dimensional, into planetary
or whatever it may be, I think the Western site is a push,
push, push the powers of credibility a bit do far, but it got
people thinking. He certainly did. Yeah, and I'm sure with that climate
of interest plus the spark, and we've got to say HG. Wells,
you know, he was a young man at that time and he wrote it
that many many years after, you know, all sorts of different books,
you'd be surprised if you look at the catalog of HG. Wells. He
captured something, and that is that that spark of literary genius someone. I'll
be honest, I don't think he had secret inside on knowledge, but I
certainly think that he captures something of the zeitgeist of it's a it's a fear.
Even Arthur C. Clarke said, you know, if you experience technology
way beyond your comprehension to you, it will seem like magical witchcraft. And
I think that that's kind of what he's picking up on. But also,
you know, as people are more and more observatories existing, there's a wider
study of the stars, and there was very much a consideration of are we
alone and the natural fear of if we are not alone, then what are
they going to want to do to us? And we had this kind of
thing from the early twentieth century, really certainly from the fifties with you know,
they came from Mars and all sorts of things, up until the late
seventies early eighties when that kind of turned around a bit more when we had
close encounters and what we don't know zer, but they appeared to be friendly
aliens, and then they certainly nailed the friendly alien notion with et And you'll
notice that that period in time in some areas, the UFO groups are dying
out. They're dying out in the latter part of the seventies and they're kind
of lesser danger, kind of dies off. And then nineteen eighty we didn't
know in nineteen eighty is something weird's happened in Rendelshom. It took what three
four years you'll know better than I, David, it actually came out that
something some incident and we're looking at nineteen eighty three, nineteen eighty four and
the Rendelshim incident comes out, and that's when there's a whole brand new interest
in UFOs in Britain. Yeah, I think it did kind of spark it
really didn't it. It's I mean, yeah, I can remember it was
later on that I was I found out about the rendership obviously the same probably
the same time as everyone else did. Obviously before that, I don't think
there was so much interest in UFOs because I mean, probably the biggest one
before that was Roswell. But I did. I do think that probably Renderssion
sparked the major interest in UFOs in this country. Well certainly gave it,
you know, a defibrillation, should we say, Well, I mean to
hit the front pages of the news of the world as it was back then.
It was actually very big news, wasn't it. It was. I
mean, in some ways aliens had never and UFO had never gone away from
the nineteen fit it became there was some even look at there were sci fi
magazines in the late nineteen thirties, you'll see reports of some alien or unidentified
spacecraft in World War Two. Then in the years after World War Two,
when we have these notions of rockets, well, what's the potential of rockets.
There will be popular fears and things will emerge out of that. But
people are now trained through the observer Corps and service in the forces to spot
what's going on in the sky, and people are seeing unusual things going on,
so it rolls on. Then we get into the In the fifties there
were some books about sightings of even alien landings in Great Britain. Then we
get to the nineteen sixties and things really do start to kick off, particularly
when we think of the war Minster Mystery, or what was known in the
press as the Warminster thing that was seen in the sky, right, my
Arthur shuttle Wood. Yeah, but I do think that a lot of that
was actually still laughed off though, wasn't it, because he didn't actually hit
the front pages. That's right, I think I thought, sorry, excuse
me. I know. Another person that kind of kicked off a lot of
this whole thing was the von Denik and when he brought out chairs of the
Gods, that kind of one when I started getting them used to get sort
of like in a series in the newspapers. I think every Sunday and I
think their spots a little interest because people started looking at the possibilities of not
the ancient alien theories that is really well accepted nowadays, you know. But
but but we'll see that with George zukerlast you'll see and you'll see with Van
Downikon appears on some of George's shows. It's great because it perpetuates the idea.
But we must not forget that in the nineteen sixties nine on, ten
years before Eric von Dannikin publishers Charts of the Gods, you've got the notion
of the ancient Aliens spaceman being published by w Raymond Drake, and he wrote
seven or eight books looking at various cultures around the world where and his work
was seminar. It was very very good, and it involved translation of ancient
languages. And he's not unforgotten nowadays. I think that's a terrible, terrible
shame, because he was doing what Eric von Dannikin obtained worldwide fame for.
He was doing it ten years before him. I remember there. It's not
a name mine though this place to mind must say, I would thoroughly recommend
people to look at w Raymond Drake. He and there are a number of
books Gods and Spacemen looking around the world and and just pick it up have
a read. They're thumbing good Reads. He was by profession a customs officer
and he was based in Sunderland in Northeast Britain. And his stuff is good.
He has he has the the the eye of somebody that has to be
quite precise in their reports to write up his findings, and because he was
quite a good linguist, he was able to uncover articles and evidence from around
the world. It's compelling, it's fascinating, and it's ten years before Eric
von Dannikin. Mhmm. I don't understand has a I don't think Eric has
a desperate academic background, not that that always means an awful lot, but
I have to think, and I like what Eric has done. But I
think I think it's a shame that Raymond Drake has not received that same spot.
Like, yeah, I mean some people don't get a recognition of userve.
I agree with you. You no, no, he hasn't you know.
I think Eric von Dnikin's background was in hotel management. It was he
was kind of I think he was like an enthusiastic in the in archaeology,
and I think a lot of that was self tall, wasn't it. Yeah,
And there's nothing wrong with that at all. But w Raymond Drake why
his books took longer to produce because his research was so original and it was
so good. It really picked him up and read him. And years later
he was interviewed because the spaceman and gods, you know, they put the
his book beside Raymond Drake often on the bookshelves, you know, which beside
Eric van Dannakan's book on the bookshelves. And of course Eric van Dwnikan gets
the he gets his book is translated, it sells all over the world.
It has this incredible publicity. Yeah, and Raymond Drake was very philosophical about
it. He said, well, look, I've got enough for my life
and I'm happy with my life. But you know, if I get anything
more, it would have been nice. Yeah. So all I'd say,
look look up gods and spacemen, look at the various areas around the world
that he looks at, and he his books are divided into various cultures.
And do you know what folks decide for yourself? I think if you want
something light that will interest you in all of this, Eric von Dannik and
does it. That's a very good job he's done with you translation, it
was helped with some with some pretty good proof readers and stuff. Well,
we all could do with a good proof reader. Let's be off it.
Oh absolutely, yeah, yeah, I think he. I think what Eric
W. Denikan did he I think he laid it out for the laymen basically
to read and find the whole thing interesting and encourage them to sort of research
themselves, right, you know, and which I think is such a good
thing because it certainly turned me onto the whole subject, absolutely right, And
we you know, I and nobody else should become an academic snob about it,
because there's not enough people that will take the stuff of ancient aliens or
UFO, indeed the paranormal seriously when I could, I could never look on
you as an I'll know you're talking well, but I think, you know,
if only more serious academic research could be carried out, I think an
awful lot of good could be brought to this world if we understood more about
UFOs and the paranormal. And I think a more frank disclosure about the strange
objects that we have seen in the sky. Really, you know, I
think we're all big boys and girls now. The old arguments of mass panic,
I really don't think that holds a lot of water anymore. I think
we can cope with it, and I think it's about time that if we
have I mean it had some sort of alien contact or something has crashed that
really is from another domen out of this world, will why not admit it?
Is it? Really? It would be? Are we really as as
a world? Are we so arrogant that we think that we are the only
ones? That just doesn't make sense to me whatsoever? You know, not
at all? It doesn't, you know. And if things are going to
be out to zap us or kill us or infect us or whatever, it
would have happened a very very long while ago. It may well have done
also, may you never know. I think it just just I think people
are people deserve the truth, you know, I really do. Some things
have to be held for national security. We know that to keep everybody safe.
But I think as a world, we've we've we've come a long way,
and I sincerely hope if we do have civilizations that we are in contact
with, that maybe they could help us sort the mess out with climate change,
everything else that's going on here. Don't go don't go down that road.
Please, I'm not it's my old hippie head saying. I think sometimes
it's just nicer to work as a team to solve some pretty nasty problem.
Yeah, I agree with you and ask for that. We've we've had seemingly
we've had previous civilizations that may well have come to an end, and who
knows, it may well have been a years aboard it to an end.
You never know, You never know. I mean, I don't know enough
to debate that effected it. What I do know is that around the world,
you look at the ancient technology and the iconography that you see around the
world in everything from the NASCAR lines to pyramids. And I'm not just talking
about pyramids in Egypt, but I'm talking about structures in South America and around
the world that kind of technology. Can it already be lost or where people
were? I just don't know. Yeah, I don't try and prove or
disprove anything. I would admit that I've loved my journey and I hope it
will continue for many, many years in the paranormal and I love wondering if
because if we don't wonder about the paranormal and the strange and what is unexplained.
You're never going to explain it. No, I agree. Now talking
about journeys, you've got something coming out, as I understand it. That's
a nasty rumor. No, not that one. Yeah, Governor, I
have, I have, and it's it's a super little event. It's it's
called the Power Meet and the main man behind it is a lovely man called
Neil Packer, and it's metamorphosed into various names. People might well know the
Haunted Antiques to Research Center. Now it's a paranormal research center and it's a
great It started off as a kind of a mute as a center for people
to come together and investigate the paranormal, a bit of a paranormal museum,
trigger objects and all sorts. And Neil thought, we've got we know so
many people, so many people on Facebook and various organs or even just over
the phone or whatever. If they we don't get together, we should get
together and have it, because let's face it, there's nothing worse than being
at parties, bar big cues or whatever, and no one wants to talk
about paner normal or the unexplained or Gothic horror or anything really really interesting.
On the other side of that, there are events, but sometimes they're so
expensive so people can't not in everybody's pocket, are they now? I do
know for a fact that Neil Pecker is keeping the prices down so they're within
everyone's reach. Yeah, yeah, I mean, I'm not going to play
anyone against the other because I tell you what they Sometimes if you dig a
little deeper, you'll get different types of speakers and stuff. But what I
really like about Neil he keeps it real. It's very UK based, and
I like that it's bringing it. It's it's a it's filled with goodwill.
The prices are right, you know, the venue is really nice, and
the people that you meet I just lovely, And it's it's got that it's
bringing all your YouTube or YouTube and Facebook friends, bring some life. Yes,
we are more than two dimensional. Let's say hello, and let's say
and I'm going to launch. I mean, I've had my advanced copies some
sort I've already gone around as I've telled it, but I'm going to formally
launch my bram Stoker Orthodracula at the Para meet brilliant and sure, I've thoroughly,
thoroughly look forward to it, and it's going to be lovely to meet
people. Say, now, unfortunately I can't make that because I shall be
in Romania. Well on earth? Are you doing there? Well? Because
we pre built it before I knew about. Are you going to Remania to
go to Castle Dracula or Tula's Castle? Which which isn't? Which isn't Dracula's
Castle? I know Bramstoke and ever foot the Romania tourists more don't like me.
I can ever put a foot in Romania, Transylvania or anywhere. No,
I think it's just legend. Yeah, I think, I think,
to be honest with you, some of those castles and attractions, Yes,
there are connections with Vlad Tepesh, which if you which yeah, okay,
there's a connection to Dracula, undoubtedly, But bram Stoker didn't know about Vlad
Tepesh. Okay, there's no mention of Vlad Tepesh or the famous engraving neils
of this Wallacan Wall, Lord the Impaler. There's no wood cut in bram
Stoker's notes. He read all Stoker fan was a reference in Wilkinson's Guide to
wallaka to Dracula. I like to imagine it was on a very wet day
at Whitby, as as it can sometimes happen on these holidays. He had
wandered down to one of the lending libraries and he fact he thought, well,
you know, I'm setting the book in Transylvania like that, I want
to know more about it. He'd probably learned about the Demeter before the visit,
which was the Mitry, the boat that broke up on the beach at
Whitby. And I bet I want to know more about this this boat from
Varner. Let's if we can find out about that. And he certainly was
versed in in Emily Gerrard's Transylvanian Superstitions book. You know there's a lot going
on, and Bram found the name Dracula. Dracula is noticed as a voivode
Ammerson, not desperately good one, and that's all it is in that book.
It's a name, but it's a name that if you roll around your
mouth, it feels great. Dracula. Yeah, it's got a terrifying the
field to it asn't what it had. It really works. Originally, Bram
Stoker was going to simply call the book the Undead. Then he tried with
the idea of Count Vampier. It would be pronounced Vampier, but it's spelt
w A M P y r p i R Count Vampire and the Undead.
Well, yeah, that's not going to work, is it. But then
he sees Dracula. Okay, Dracula and the Undead, but when it comes
to publication just won't work. It was a hell of a gamble because nobody
knew what a Dracula or who Dracula was. That's all it was. It's
a name, but it works, and it works really well. But yeah,
I mean boiled ma. Bram had ever had the chance to go to
Transylvania or Romania, I did say he would have probably gone and thoroughly enjoyed
it. It would have been great. Yes, do go. We've got
to love the sicky stay well, you know I personally, you know,
I would get a lot closer to Bramstoke and Dracula with a nice long weekend
in Whitby or to slains and to what port airwell or couldn't bay slains Castle
and stay at the Kilmarnock Arms. Then you're being very very close to Dracula.
Yeah, well, I think it is that. I think that castle
is kind of the design they used in the Hammer horror films. I think
that's that's kind of where I think it's got the links with Dracula more than
actually the links to that in payment and everything like that, don't you think.
I think that the castles certainly have the links to Vlad or lad tever
So. I don't know, because I've never studied in detailers neither branded,
but I'm sure that they must have some connection to these figures. But artistically,
yes, the filmic dracket Castle Dracula will be based on you know,
if you've got tourist guides two Transylvania and Romania in the nineteen fifties sixties,
that they're going to draw on those. They're going to draw on the themes
that we saw right back to the old universal monster, you know, back
to the Baylor lagorsid oracularre. It's what people expect, you know, they
want something foreign, not a battlemented castle as we were knowing Great Britain.
I'm sure Bram wouldn't have wanted that either. He's going to want turrets and
he's going to want kind of spires and things that give that continental air to
it. But if you've long drops of a cliff and things like that,
quite right. But if you go to Slains Castle, which is crudent back,
it's on this rocky out crop and even though it's ruined us now,
Brown would have known it in an a habitable state. Indeed he stayed there.
But yeah, it looks it looks right. And then you add to
that the vision that Bram had when he was staying on Prince's Street of Edinburgh
Castle, this huge castle spreading across the top of a rock. Yeah,
yeah, they are castle drag killers. And not to mention the guy had
a wonderful imagination. And if you look at the Castle of the King in
Under the Sunset, his first sever fiction book for kids, I mean,
the darn thing's got a cast like a skull in the architecture of the building.
The entrance to it is the mouth of the skull. Check it out.
Yeah, yeah, there's castle there. It is anyway, So let's
the bad news, or we won't be able to see each other at Paramet
which is which is dated what that was the early September isn't it power Meat?
Is that? Actually I'm arriving on Friday, and Parameat is Saturday and
Sunday this week. That's right now. Unfortunately this show goes so this show
will go out after that paramet, so you'd have already met everybody that you're
going to meet. Hey, it's been great, Hey we will but the
news is we will meet again at the Festival of You and Explained, which
is coming up on the fourteenth of the seventeenth. Yeah, and that Bosworth
Hall. In each of these wonderful festivals and paramly they have their own identity
and the Festival of the Unexplained that brings over personalities from American ghost sending shows
and investigation shows in a big scale. Everybody from Daniel Class right boat over
to really Rob Thompson ghost finders, really good people, and and and d
and d my amazing wonderful friend, old friend, the man that gave me
my big break in America. David Schrader. Ah, well, we haven't
had a tour together since it's got to be five years thanks to the darkness
that was locked down. But Davi is back in the UK. We're taught
and he's going to be at the Festival of the Unexplained People will no day
from the Holes of Files one of the best ever shows to show people the
way I think it should be conducted. You know, you've got the wonderful
historic cases of hands holes and then we use new technology, the truly gifted
in investigative skills and pameable skills of Cindy Kayser. I mean that the lady
is, in my view, gifted. I mean, for goodness sake,
there's Shane Pittman, bless him. He always gets the I think he gets
the short story at times. But you know, you've got to bring these
youngsters on and if the work experience, he's quite intense, he's quite intense.
Say sometimes we love Shane. But above all I think the world of
Dave Schrader. And I'll tell you why not only because you give me my
first great great break. We think alike. We we believe in honesty.
And if Dave gets the slightest whiffed, and it wouldn't be with Holes of
Files, but with other shows. Oh yes, will you come and do
this filming with us? Yes, Dave will say. But if a director
happened to say, oh, well, can we just manipulate this, or
can we do it? Or will you say that Dave won't have anything to
do with it. Yeah, I walk out straight away. That's a lot
that ain't going to happen, or he'll make it, you know, if
you're going to play like that, I'm not an eye it because his reputation
is built on really good, genuine investigation skills. So if you see Dave
being pushed by something, sensing something, observing something, you know it will
be the real deal. That's why I respect it. I'm certainly looking forward
to meeting him. Oh, you'll love it, along with the rest of
the team of course as all. Oh it's quite a lineup, you know,
and it's lovely to be with all of them. Again, it's different
experience, and you know, if you had the chance to come to both,
I would certainly recommend come along to both because they are very different.
And there at the Festival of the Unexplained. I Shall be a book I
produced earlier this year on the Blackout murders I Shall, which includes the murder
of Charles Walton. Now do old Charlie Walton was in his seventies and he
was murdered on Saint Valentine's Day in nineteen forty five, dear old boy was
believed by some people in his local village to be a witch. Was it
that popular fear that caused somebody to murder him? Or was it somebody with
another motive that played on these ideas of witchcraft and this undercurrent in the countryside.
Wis are like a very dark episode of Midsummer murders. And they killed
him to what would be known as to locals as a ritual way of murdering
or killing a witch. And it would be seeing a disposing of somebody that's
cursed the land. The poor old Charlie has his neck pinned through with a
pitchfork, which is then bent backwards by its handle and placed under the hedge
he'd been worked on. And then a slash of hook is taken and his
thoats cut out. It's absolutely horrific. I'm glad I've had more two already.
God bless you go. So the local police do the initial investigation,
but they draw a blank. So Inspector Bob Fabian, chief inspector or Chief
super by that. But he's famous. He's known as Fabian of the Yard.
He was one of the big, big, big names in Scotland yard
during the Second World War. And you know, you might even remember there
was a series called Fabian. Actually thought it was a fictional character, so
it was a true he's the real deal. All the cases are based on
those of Bob Fabian. Fabian goes with it, you know, with it
with his detective sergeant who over to the village of Lower Quint and there are
and the villagers around there. There's a big prisoner of war camp. So
they have another police officer who's a pretty good interpreter and they interview all the
prisoners of war because there's a certain amount as quite understandable in wartime, it
must be one of the prisoners of war that's killed Charlie. But for Fabian
it's weird because the locals are just clamming up, they're shutting doors, saying,
well, he's been dead over a month, you know, what are
you worrying about? And it's the one case that really stuck in Bob Fabian's
money that he could never ever solve and it remains unsolved to this day.
No one, but there are theories. I certainly explore a theory that was
shared by Fabian, who couldn't in his own lifetime publish the theory in any
of his books for fear of libel, but he shared that with a crime
author by the name of Richard Whittington Egan, whom I was acquainted with in
Richard's later life. A wonderful man, extremely erudite, and a good author
who also wrote some of the or edited the Weekend book of Ghosts and Murder
and Mysteries and Legends. He was a lovely man, a true gentleman,
and a scholar. Great company. And Fabian said, you know, he
named the person he thought did it and a reason why, And I revealed
that in my Blackout Murder's book. Prove it. But it makes a very
logical case for who killed Charlie Walt. Yes, are You're not treading only
one's toes. You're just sort of putting the information out there. And oh,
as an assumption, I guess, well, I don't make an assumption.
I repeat what was told me and and actually was in a printed forming
in one of Richard Whittington Egan's articles. I have no problem with that.
It's just we had to it couldn't be done it at the time by Richard
himself. If you see what. I haven't read the book. I don't
claim it as my theory. I didn't crack the case, and we might
all be shown up to be wrong in the long run, but I think
it sounds a very viable case, sounds interesting. If not every people may
have suspected, maybe not everybody will know. And I did take it a
little bit further with a little bit more evidence. That makes the theory a
bit more compelling. And I think that's what you're well known for, Neil.
But yeah, I mean we all have a good murder mystery. I
think. I don't think as many people out there done like a good Mooner
mystery, so this sounds like a good one. I hope people will enjoy
it. It's the Blackout Murder, isn't it? It's still available, but
the first run I think sold out in four days. It's a great title
as well. It's sort of it says it all really in the titled,
isn't it? Well? I was amazed, really that there was no There've
been books on wartime crime, but nothing has ever really focused. And there'll
be stories of Gordon Cummins, who was known as the Blackout Ripper. That's
quite right, they exist, but my book examines Cummins. Yes, but
other some very notorious are the far less known cases of that took place during
the blackouts in Britain during the Second World War, some of which aren't deeply
disturbing because it shows that there was a mindset in Britain. It was a
small minority, but life became pretty cheap for you know in nineteen thirty nine
when it was thought, oh, we're all going to starve because we'll get
cut off from our imports, and we had to rely on a quite a
lot of imports for food before the war, and we wouldn't be able to
feed our animals, our pets. And the fear was also that you know,
they might be killed by gas attack. They certainly would not allowed in
public shelters, allegedly, I mean, that was the kind of the rule.
So PDSA and other animal interest groups did set up air raid shelters where
you could go down and shelter with your pets. But before that took place,
it got out your pets aren't going to be able to go anywhere if
there's an air raid, so the kindest thing would be kill them. And
then yes, and the trouble was and it is heartbreaking. The problem was
that in nineteen forty, when the air aids really kick it and London starts
getting raided night after night, that people lose it. Lord knows what their
mental state may have been before, but these are civilians that are exposed to
night after night of aerial attack and you really don't know if the next bomb
is going to be on your house. You've got to ask the question,
how much could you take? Seriously? You know, you watch a TV
show it's suspenseful, but this is real. This is on your doorstep.
That's happening in nineteen forty Inland night after night, relentlessly, week after week,
every night, and you will get sleep fatigue. How that can affect
people and some people it broke them. And the question is like, okay,
if somebody is broken, what happens next? Well, some people will
receive treatment and some people will will maybe be taken away into mental health care.
Other people will react in a way where they actually killed the people they
loved, thinking it was the kindest thing to do. At one air aid
Warden had seen elderly people in air raid shelterers. He didn't want to see
his mother hopping from a shelter and tube station to tube station night after night,
and so he thought the kindest thing was to kill her. Another woman,
she had her husband that they'd been bombed out. Her husband was gradually
losing his sight, and she thought the kindest thing would be to kill him.
Quite whether that was the kindest way to kill him using a sharpened chit
is another matter. But it happened. See, maybe that was an excuse
for some people as well, to get rid of somebody you didn't like,
or you're enodies. It could well be you see when when they were proposing
blackouts local chambers of trade, and indeed the police expressed the concern that this
will lead to a mini crime wave, which you did. But what had
been forgotten that this led to a mini murdered wave because people who thought yaren
for the very first time, I've thought about it for a lot of years.
Well, I can do it in the dark and no one's going to
capture me, because it really is pitch black. You know, you've got
hundreds, if not thousands, of people being injured and certainly hundreds of people
being killed in road traffic accidents. Between nineteen thirty nine and forty more people
are killed with road traffic accidents during that period of time before single bomb fell
on London. It was shocking and people using this as a cover. So
you've got youngsters that have watched too many gangster films that are going out on
with First World War hand pistols and doing stick them up raids because they would
have been a lot easier to obtain back. They wouldn't they court it would
this would be stuff that would be knocking about. You know, most a
lot of people their dad dad served in World War One. What's he brought
back? He's brought back a German luga. Great that it doesn't always mean
you've got the ammunition, although a lot of old boys did. Returned officers,
you know, they've got their Webley six revolver in their draw and indeed
some people made sure they had ammunition in case the invasion came. Initially to
defend themselves, but then you know, leave a couple of bullets in case
we want to dispose of ourselves. Yeah, the worst happens. So it
was the most incredibly dark time there. I mean, and I do look
at those that you these bogey men existed in the dark you know, bogie
men were attacking children and women on their own in the dark of the blackout.
Fact it happened, and it's time that those women and children who were
victims of those attacks, it shouldn't be brushed under the carpet, and that
my book is dedicated to their memory. You know that these these okay,
the weeds grow over the grave, communities that don't always want to remember.
And I can understand that we do want to put some things behind us.
But these are just ordinary people caught up in extraordinary circumstances. And I don't
think that their stories should be completely buried, but we should remember their names.
Now. I don't want I don't care at the killers, but let's
let's care about those who were taken from us. But not only that.
Serial killers, some of the most infamous serial killers began during the blackouts in
Britain during the Second World War. You've got you've got Johnny Haig, the
acid bath murderer. Well he's got you know, quite quite a central London
supposed it's a kind of factory office. That he's inviting people down there,
people who were his friends and the and their families. Thinking of Donal Donald
mcswan and the families there he one clink on the head and there and they're
put into the He actually borrowed aarp. The RP used to use oil drums
as water bugs. He's borrowed on from the aarp. Yeah, well,
well that damn thank you lads, just born that for a couple of days.
Get some cardboards of acid because he claims to on government work. But
then he doesn't realize that dissolving human bodies that quantities of acid is going to
give off nasty fumes. Under the cover of the blacks, he's able to
upstairs. He's got the rear entrance to his workshop, and he's got to
leave the door open at times or staying standing near the door and breathing the
clean air. So he and he's able to get these people in and out
of his place, you know, and walk there, take them there in
his car and nobody knows because it's under the cover of darkness. Or you
got a ten ten Rillington place where you've got red Christie Well in wartime pre
war. He's a fraudster. He's beaten up one of his former partners and
put the poor woman in the hospital. He's a vicious, nasty piece of
work. But the police are not carrying out the checks that they really should,
and he becomes a war reserved police officer. Sounds a bit familiar to
what we got today. That's another story. It is another story, but
it's letting that. It's you know, they didn't do the checks. They've
got a wrong on there. But and he's got he's got all the power
of the police. He's got the police intelligence as well. So he gets
involved with prostitutes and it's sort of that turned the blind out eye and get
a favor. Women start to trust him and come under my place, or
I'm a policeman. Or even after he left the police force because he had
had an affair with a married woman, he goes to work in a factory.
I'll come under mine, Yeah, I'll look after you. Before the
war, I trained as a doctor. What did he do with these women,
Well, initially he was burying them in the garden. Christy is famed
for burying them or not paring them, putting them into a cupboard, a
fitted cupboard in his kitchen at ten Rillington Place. But his first victims were
buried under the cover of the blackout when there was no more blackout. He
couldn't risk being in a terraced house with a small back garden in Willington Place.
He couldn't risk being seen. So that's when he starts stacking up the
bodies in the fitted cupboard and under the floorboards at ten Rellington Place. Yes,
absolutely horrific, it really, yeah, dear dear. Anyway, Neil,
it's been an absolute, an absolute pleasure once again to have you back
on the show. I'm really looking forward to seeing you again at the fest
of They explained, I'll tell you all about Castle Traqula. We'll see you.
No, I'm sure you know all about it anyway, I don't.
I don't because I've never investigated it. I hope you have a wonderful time.
No, I'm sure. There's only a few days anyway, and it
looks interesting, it looks nice, so I'm looking forward to it. But
unfortunately I will miss that pair of which I unfortunately. When I looked at
it, I thought, oh great, I can go there, and then
I've realized, oh no, I'm booked to go to Rumain. Yes,
I can't do that. Well Norfolk will say that lane. Yeah, it's
good to go to all and you know, coming back fresh and hopefully there'll
be another power Meat and a Festival of the Unexplained next year and you could
do try and what's the dates next year? But at least I will see
you at the festival and that'll be great. And then we hopefully we're going
to get another week in October. I look forward to that. But as
always, Neil, it's a bit of great pleasure talking to you, and
all the time's getting on a bit. Noah, I hope you've been all
right. Hope you hope you don't mind up that you've been on to the
two hours school. Well, I hope the listeners will enjoy it too.
Oh yeah, it's been fantastic, you know. I wish you was all
of the best, David. I send my kindness regards to all the listeners,
and wherever you may be, or whoever you may be, keep safe,
safe travels and be kind to each other. Yeah, and as you
go, all your poet, because old Dixon used to say to speak David,
take care YouTube to take care of yourself and I'll see yourself not for
it broby, There we are. That was Neil's story. Thank you,
Neil, there's great seeing you again and congratulations on a very successful book.
Okay, the next show, it's going to be actually next week and it'll
be the second of October, and it's another Neil. It's a mister Neil
Pecker. Neil has been a guest on the show fairly recently, but there's
been some updates with what's going on with him, so Neil's back again.
So that's Neil Pecker on Monday, the second of October. In the meantime,
if you'd like to get in touch with me at all, as always,
my email address is David Young took you in at your who dot co
dot u K. That's David Young tu qu n at Yahoo dot co dot
UK. So thank you for listening and I'll catch you next week. That's
Monday, the second of October, and it's a mister Neil Pecker. Wish
you all well and take care of yourselves. There's David Young signing out,
Bye bye. We have learned much, but we have sacrificed. Who are
you? Are you receiving me? I clicked it back. I'm being hold
up. Paranormal Dimensions is fortnightly on Mondays on the Paranormal UK radio network,