1
00:00:06,320 --> 00:00:34,240
Paul Fastball, What Up? What
Up? What Up? What Up?

2
00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:38,280
Welcome to another episode of Let's Ask
Paul. My name is Paul Abernatha,

3
00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:42,560
your host, and we got a
pretty good one for you today. Before

4
00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:47,000
I get into today's topic that was
submitted, UM, I want to remind

5
00:00:47,039 --> 00:00:51,719
you that you can get all of
our podcasts on our mobile app. Just

6
00:00:51,799 --> 00:00:57,679
go to our website fast tracks system
dot com and that's tracks t R A

7
00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:03,840
X okay, not t R A
C k okay. Go to our website

8
00:01:03,079 --> 00:01:07,519
and you can download our mobile app
and you can get access to so many

9
00:01:07,519 --> 00:01:11,879
things on that mobile app, calculators, you got the ability to reach out

10
00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:15,120
and ask us to question directly through
the app. You can go to the

11
00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:19,439
chat room, the message boards,
the Sparky hub you've got. If you're

12
00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:22,760
a fast Track student, you can
get to that. You can listen to

13
00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:26,599
all of our podcasts directly from the
app and stream it to whatever Bluetooth device

14
00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:32,079
you want. Just so much and
we're constantly adding things, and the most

15
00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:37,040
important thing is it's free. It
doesn't cost you anything, and we're constantly

16
00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:41,120
adding things to that. So go
check that out. It's on our website,

17
00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:45,000
fasttracksystem dot com. Of course,
you can also find it at our

18
00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:49,640
quick link which is anc chat dot
com, so you can go there as

19
00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:53,799
well. But of course it's also
available on our legacy site, Electrical Code

20
00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:57,840
Academy dot net. If that's what
you prefer, then go there as well.

21
00:01:57,519 --> 00:02:01,120
Once you get that app, it's
basically a progressive web app, means

22
00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:06,400
it doesn't put anything in your phone, there's no security worries. It just

23
00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:10,520
basically you go there, you'll you'll
you'll scan the bar code or you'll go

24
00:02:10,639 --> 00:02:14,919
to the RL if you're using your
phone to go to our website and go

25
00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:17,599
to the mobile page. It's going
to ask you if you want to put

26
00:02:17,599 --> 00:02:21,879
an icon on your home screen and
just say yes. And that's just a

27
00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:27,319
quick link that's going to launch a
web based mobile app and that way we

28
00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:30,800
can change it and you always will
be updated and things like that, and

29
00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:32,599
there's so many features and we're going
to be constantly add more. So make

30
00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:38,879
sure you check that out. Okay. So today's episode is also sponsored by

31
00:02:39,439 --> 00:02:44,039
Electrocal Code Academy and the Fast Tracked
Program. If you really want to learn

32
00:02:44,039 --> 00:02:49,360
the National Electrical Code, then you
really got to immerse yourself into a code

33
00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:54,080
based program. And I can tell
you why our program is better than anybody

34
00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:59,479
else's all right, that's just not
me blowing smoke. First of all,

35
00:02:59,599 --> 00:03:02,240
our rams have competency reviews. You're
not just getting a book or DVD.

36
00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:07,280
I literally look at all of your
questions and I respond back with code references

37
00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:10,319
and tell you which ones you got
wrong, and I give you the reference

38
00:03:10,439 --> 00:03:14,759
so that you can go back and
look it up. Okay, you can

39
00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:19,240
interact with me through many different features. There's a special form over on the

40
00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:22,759
Sparky Hub that's just for fast Track
students. If you haven't logged into that

41
00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:25,120
yet or signed up for it,
and you're a fast Track student, shame

42
00:03:25,159 --> 00:03:30,039
on you get over there and get
logged into that, so you got that

43
00:03:30,439 --> 00:03:35,520
as well. You Also, again, we have the Wednesday nights that you

44
00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:39,280
could come to, although that is
changing in June June fifteenth. Again,

45
00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:43,719
that's going to be changing to where
it's going to be streamed live. Now,

46
00:03:43,719 --> 00:03:46,840
the focus on that show that's live, it's called fast Tracks Live,

47
00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:51,000
is we're still going to be catering
to the fast Track student. The questions

48
00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:53,000
are going to be more of the
fast Track student type questions. The lessons

49
00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:58,840
are going to be fast tracks,
dedicated type lessons, and what we're doing

50
00:03:58,919 --> 00:04:00,719
is we're opening it up in and
people join us to learn a little bit,

51
00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:05,400
find out about our program, but
also again interact with us because you've

52
00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:10,599
got chat that you can interact and
all that starts on June fifteenth. So

53
00:04:10,639 --> 00:04:14,800
that's the live show, so make
sure you check that out on June fifteenth

54
00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:17,120
on all of our social platforms,
we will be streaming them to everything.

55
00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:21,600
Okay, all right, and again
that is going to be I believe it's

56
00:04:21,639 --> 00:04:27,439
seven thirty Central Standard time or I
should Yeah, just Central time, which

57
00:04:27,519 --> 00:04:30,959
is where we're at in Texas.
So again, adjust accordingly. If you're

58
00:04:30,959 --> 00:04:34,560
an East coast you're going to be
an hour ahead, if you're in the

59
00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:40,560
West coast, you're gonna be two
hours behind. So again, just your

60
00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:44,560
time accordingly. Okay, let's get
into today's topic. I did have a

61
00:04:44,639 --> 00:04:46,519
question. It's sent to me,
and it was more of a kind of

62
00:04:46,519 --> 00:04:53,959
a personal type of question. And
this question was basically asking me, most

63
00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:58,959
of you know I serve on Code
Making Panel five and it's my favorite panel

64
00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:02,879
to serve one. I do also
serve on seventeen. Not as enamored with

65
00:05:02,879 --> 00:05:06,759
that one as obviously him on co
panel five, and I'm a principal on

66
00:05:06,879 --> 00:05:11,240
five, I'm an alternate on seventeen, which makes sense. I don't care

67
00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:15,759
to be a principle on co panel
seventeen. I'm just saying, okay,

68
00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:19,000
so let's kind of look at it
here. So the question it was sent

69
00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:24,279
to me, it says, Paul, what is the number one? If

70
00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:30,040
I can't read this, what is
the number one issue that you find or

71
00:05:30,079 --> 00:05:35,680
grounding and bonding violations that you're asked
about on a constant basis? Okay,

72
00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:41,560
so what is the what is the
number one grounding and bonding violation you get

73
00:05:41,639 --> 00:05:48,279
asked about? And that's an important
thing because obviously being on Code Panel five,

74
00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:51,199
I do get a lot of grounding
and bonding questions that are sent to

75
00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:58,560
me. And again, I let's
ask Paul that Paul Abernethy dot com portal.

76
00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:00,879
Also, by the way, we'll
be answering a lot of those questions

77
00:06:00,959 --> 00:06:04,079
on the New Fast Tracks live as
well. So that's another reason. If

78
00:06:04,079 --> 00:06:09,439
you send in your questions to Paul
Abernathy dot com, they may be selected

79
00:06:10,439 --> 00:06:14,639
to be used on a live session. So that's an incentive for you.

80
00:06:14,639 --> 00:06:17,680
You got questions you always wanted to
ask, Just go to Paul at abernaty

81
00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:24,120
dot com Paul A b r n
at h y dot com and you can

82
00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:30,199
submit them that way. And UM
that website's in sponsor with Wix, so

83
00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:32,439
again it's just a way for you
to get in touch with us. Plus,

84
00:06:32,439 --> 00:06:38,160
you can also listen to the Let's
Ask Paul podcasts there as well if

85
00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:41,560
you happen to you be using your
phone or browser and you want to just

86
00:06:41,639 --> 00:06:44,560
go there. You can also listen
to everything straight from there as well too,

87
00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:48,680
so that's another an option for you. UM. And also our podcasts

88
00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:54,040
are available on all of your popular
listening platforms Spreaker, Spotify, Deezer,

89
00:06:54,079 --> 00:07:01,199
iHeartRadio, um podban, goarch of
Google podcast, Apple Podcasts, all the

90
00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:06,680
places you can catch it. Just
go searching for Master the n EC podcast

91
00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:10,519
and you'll be able to find it. Right. We appreciate all you out

92
00:07:10,519 --> 00:07:13,879
there listening. All right, so
let me talk about the number one thing

93
00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:15,560
that I see, or at least
what I'm asked about. Let me put

94
00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:20,120
it that way, and this is
going to be what you hear me refer

95
00:07:20,279 --> 00:07:29,480
to as an improper case to neutral
connection case being the grounded enclosure and the

96
00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:33,160
neutral being the grounded conductor that is
serving as a neutral in most cases that

97
00:07:33,279 --> 00:07:38,000
I see, not all cases,
but most cases that I'm having to see

98
00:07:38,199 --> 00:07:41,759
when it comes to images and what
people share with me or what I see

99
00:07:41,759 --> 00:07:46,079
on social media. So when it
comes to that, it's probably going to

100
00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:51,759
be two fifty twenty four A five
and that is a load size grounding connection.

101
00:07:53,319 --> 00:07:55,680
And here's what it says in the
National Electrical Code. And I kind

102
00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:58,920
of bring a little context to where
I see this the most, or when

103
00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:03,199
people do it, whether they're hosting
pictures on social media, whether it's tradehounds

104
00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:07,920
or Instagram or TikTok or whatnot.
And people are very proud of their work,

105
00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:11,759
and that's good. It's good to
be proud of their work. But

106
00:08:11,839 --> 00:08:15,399
don't post that picture, don't post
that video unless you know that it's code

107
00:08:15,399 --> 00:08:18,360
compliant. Otherwise you're going to have
people pick it apart because it is what

108
00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:22,600
it is. It's promoting improper installations, and we do not want other people

109
00:08:22,759 --> 00:08:28,639
learning from that. You're going to
learn worse from seeing an improper installation than

110
00:08:28,759 --> 00:08:33,120
worrying more about how pretty it looks. If it's still wrong it's wrong.

111
00:08:33,039 --> 00:08:35,960
So if you got your codebooks or
you're listening to this in the car,

112
00:08:37,039 --> 00:08:39,399
don't worry. I'm going to dictate
it to you. Is two fifty twenty

113
00:08:39,399 --> 00:08:46,600
four A five that is entitled loadside
grounding connections. So here's what it says.

114
00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:52,440
It says, a grounded conductor shall
not be connected to normally non current

115
00:08:52,559 --> 00:09:00,279
carrying metal parts of equipment to equipment
grounding conductors, or to be connected two

116
00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:07,840
ground on the loadside of the service
disconnecting means, except as otherwise permitted in

117
00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:13,600
this article, and we'll talk about
where it's permitted just by historical reasons and

118
00:09:13,639 --> 00:09:18,879
what was allowed in the past and
things like that. But in general,

119
00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:24,679
probably the biggest thing I see is
that when people have a service disconnecting means,

120
00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:26,600
and let's say now it's a one
in two families, so it's outside

121
00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:31,840
the dwelling in accordance with two thirty
dot eighty five, and it can it

122
00:09:31,919 --> 00:09:37,000
could be the service disconnect, or
it might be just emergency disconnect only and

123
00:09:37,039 --> 00:09:39,919
you still have a panel out there
with the service disconnect in it, or

124
00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:46,320
maybe your service disconnect is your emergency
and your service disconnect. However, you're

125
00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:50,279
complying with two thirty dot eighty five. And you've got three options out there,

126
00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:56,080
meter disconnect, separate disconnect, or
you could have a service and an

127
00:09:56,279 --> 00:10:01,080
emergency disconnect all in one. So
you've got three options here in the two

128
00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:05,799
thirty eighty five, right, So
pick your flavor whichever one you want.

129
00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:11,279
But what's important about that is once
you have the service equipment, and that

130
00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:13,399
is where you're going to have your
main bonding jumper, right, and that's

131
00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:18,960
going to physically connect the equipment grounds
that come in, the grounded conductor that

132
00:10:20,039 --> 00:10:24,639
comes from the utility all together,
and it's going to make that connection to

133
00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:28,679
the case. And that's why you'll
hear us talk about improper case to neutral.

134
00:10:28,919 --> 00:10:31,639
That's okay. At the service,
all of those come together, and

135
00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:37,679
that's where you take your grounding electrode
conductor from that common terminal bus down to

136
00:10:37,759 --> 00:10:41,039
whatever your electrodes are, whether it's
a UF ground or ground rods or whatever

137
00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:45,159
you may have. Okay, And
of course you'll all know all of your

138
00:10:45,519 --> 00:10:48,679
electrodes and all or in two fifty
dot fifty two, and of course to

139
00:10:48,879 --> 00:10:52,559
fifty dot fifty requires you to tie
them all together. If you have more

140
00:10:52,559 --> 00:10:58,840
than one type of a grounding electrode
system there, So anyway that's a that's

141
00:10:58,840 --> 00:11:03,000
a different topic. So the loadside
grounding connection is where somebody would run a

142
00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:11,159
feeder downstream from the service equipment and
use a panel that is perfectly capable of

143
00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:16,360
being used as suitable for service equipment
for use a service equipment, and it

144
00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:20,679
still has a green main bonding jumper
in it, and they don't take it

145
00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:24,840
out, and so they land the
equipment grounds from the various brand circuits that

146
00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:31,679
might come out of that feeder panel, and they take it and they make

147
00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:37,200
connection where the grounded conductor is a
neutral and the equipment grounds are intimate with

148
00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:43,559
each other because they don't isolate the
neutral above the case so that it doesn't

149
00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:46,600
come in contact with the case.
And then you have the equipment grounds which

150
00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:52,320
do come in contact with the case. Now, the reason that you want

151
00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:56,200
that neutrals to be kind of isolated
floating, not in contact with the metal

152
00:11:56,240 --> 00:12:00,360
parts is because there's going to be
current traveling at any given time on a

153
00:12:00,399 --> 00:12:05,519
grounded neutral conductor, okay, and
if you were to tie that to the

154
00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:09,080
metal parts, then you're going to
have circulating current. And also we can

155
00:12:09,159 --> 00:12:15,120
lead to objectionable currents. It can
also lead to if you lose a neutral,

156
00:12:15,279 --> 00:12:18,519
now you've got path traveling on the
metal parts. All those types of

157
00:12:18,519 --> 00:12:24,440
things are going to be unsafe,
right, unsafe situation. So we want

158
00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:28,559
to make sure that at the end
of the day, what we're doing with

159
00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:33,159
that is we're not going to run
the risk of that taking place because we're

160
00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:37,960
not going to do an improper case
to neutral downstream, right, and so

161
00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:45,159
when we set it up properly,
we're not going to run three conductors right

162
00:12:45,519 --> 00:12:52,039
to a detached structure like a building. Okay, so it's also going to

163
00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:56,519
go the same way if we're running
to ranges or dryers. Right, then

164
00:12:56,600 --> 00:13:00,639
when we do that, we have
to make sure we run four conductors as

165
00:13:00,639 --> 00:13:03,039
well, and we're also going to
isolate the neutral and so it doesn't come

166
00:13:03,039 --> 00:13:07,039
in contact with any of the metal
parts. Makes sense, same concept,

167
00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:13,519
It's just a difference in taking it
to an outlet in this case where you

168
00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:18,679
need an equipment ground and a neutral
and two ungrounded conductors. It's no different

169
00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:22,399
than going to the detached structure.
Now, when we read the allowance here

170
00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:28,000
in two fifty twenty four A five, and we read it and it also

171
00:13:28,039 --> 00:13:33,240
said unless otherwise permitted in this article. The reason it makes that statement is

172
00:13:33,279 --> 00:13:37,759
because there are some applications within the
NEC that are legacy, and when we

173
00:13:37,799 --> 00:13:45,559
say legacy meaning they have been allowed
based on previous accepted code editions. And

174
00:13:45,799 --> 00:13:48,600
one of those is to kind of
think, okay, well, under two

175
00:13:48,639 --> 00:13:52,240
fifty dot thirty two, you have
an A which is going to require the

176
00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:56,639
grounding electrode at that building or structure
that is supplied by a feeder or brand

177
00:13:56,720 --> 00:14:00,879
circuit. So again that's your detached
garage, let's say, and you take

178
00:14:00,879 --> 00:14:03,080
a circuit, Yes, you're going
to have to establish a grounding electrode system

179
00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:07,679
there. Now, there is an
exception if you only take a brand circuit

180
00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:11,240
out there and things like that,
So that's an exception under two fifty dot

181
00:14:11,279 --> 00:14:16,000
thirty two A. But we're talking
about a panel that's being installed in a

182
00:14:16,039 --> 00:14:22,639
detached garage, and you're gonna run
four conductors out there, right equipment ground

183
00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:26,840
a grounded neutral conductor and two un
grounded conductors or two hots. Okay,

184
00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:31,399
you're gonna want to isolate that neutral
so it doesn't come in contact with the

185
00:14:31,399 --> 00:14:33,840
metal. Case. Now, when
you read two fifty dot thirty two A.

186
00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:37,240
That's about the electrode at the building. But what we want to look

187
00:14:37,279 --> 00:14:41,000
at is B, and that's for
a grounded system, right, so you'll

188
00:14:41,039 --> 00:14:43,360
see what it says and B.
Here's what it says. It says an

189
00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:48,480
equipment grounding conductor as described in two
fifty one eighteen and the course, i'll

190
00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:54,960
remind you two fifty one eighteen is
the list of acceptable equipment grounding conductors.

191
00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:58,039
So if you want to pause the
podcast, you want to go look at

192
00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:01,720
it. You'll see all the different
front allowances to be an equipment grounding conductor.

193
00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:07,879
So at first it's telling us that
we have to provide an equipment ground

194
00:15:07,879 --> 00:15:11,480
of conductor, and it says it
shall be run with the supply conductors and

195
00:15:11,679 --> 00:15:18,200
be connected to the building or structures, disconnecting means, and to the grounding

196
00:15:18,279 --> 00:15:22,840
electrodes. Okay, so that's why
you go to the detach structure. And

197
00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:28,159
let's say it's a it's a two
car garage, that's you're going to be

198
00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:33,000
converted man cave or she shied in
your backyard. You have a panel in

199
00:15:33,039 --> 00:15:35,480
there, You've run four conductors to
it. You isolate the neutral the equipment

200
00:15:35,519 --> 00:15:39,200
ground connects to a bus that's connected
to the case, and then you go

201
00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:43,559
from that case connection and you're going
to run it down and you're going to

202
00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:48,440
be taking it down to the grounding
electrode via a grounding electrode conductor, right,

203
00:15:50,559 --> 00:15:54,679
And in doing that, you're not
going to take that GEC and connect

204
00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:58,200
it to the grounded neutral It's going
to go to the equipment ground that ran

205
00:15:58,279 --> 00:16:02,799
with that feeder. Okay, So
that's what it's basically telling you, and

206
00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:04,720
that's how it's going to make the
connection to the grounding electrode that's at that

207
00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:10,279
detached structure. It goes on to
say, and again for those wondering where

208
00:16:10,279 --> 00:16:12,559
we're reading it, this is two
fifty thirty two B one. By the

209
00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:18,639
way, it says, the equipment
grounding conductor shall be used for grounding or

210
00:16:18,679 --> 00:16:23,879
bonding of equipment structures or frames required
to be grounded or bonded. It says

211
00:16:23,919 --> 00:16:30,240
the equipment grounding conductor shall be sized
in accordance with two fifty one twenty two.

212
00:16:30,399 --> 00:16:33,720
Obviously based on the overcurrent device upstream
that's supplying that feeder to the building

213
00:16:33,919 --> 00:16:41,559
makes sense. It says any installed
grounding conductor shall not be connected to the

214
00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:48,320
equipment grounding conductor or to the grounding
electrodes. It says it flat out not

215
00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:53,200
to do that right now. There
was a time when that was permitted.

216
00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:57,480
That is when it says, unless
otherwise permitted. Now you have to look

217
00:16:57,480 --> 00:17:02,600
at the exception number one? Does
it say? It says exception number one?

218
00:17:02,639 --> 00:17:10,400
It says the installation made in compliance
with previous additions of the code that

219
00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:15,559
were permitted such connection, that permitted
such connection. It says the ground conductor

220
00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:22,480
run with the supply conductors to the
bonding to the building or structure shall be

221
00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:29,000
permitted to serve as the ground fault
return path if all the following all the

222
00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:33,359
following requirements continue to be met.
And I won't go into the different requirements,

223
00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:37,160
but basically, if you meet these
requirements, it's basically saying, look,

224
00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:40,160
you didn't run an equipment ground in
the past. You basically run two

225
00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:42,599
hots and a neutral, just like
what you do at a service, although

226
00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:48,119
that's a feeder not a service.
But it was permitted at one point to

227
00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:51,680
run three conductors to a detached structure, or you can't do it now,

228
00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:55,039
but if it was under a previous
cycle, and you'll have to do your

229
00:17:55,079 --> 00:17:57,440
due diligence to see when that was
allowed. I believed, don't hold me

230
00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:02,720
to it. I believe the last
time this was allowed was under the two

231
00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:07,240
thousand and five edition of the NEC. But anyway, you need to go

232
00:18:07,279 --> 00:18:10,680
look because I'm not a historian and
I've moved beyond that. So I try

233
00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:14,359
to forget old stuff because there's just
no room in his head for all that

234
00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:18,559
old stuff as I'm starting to teach
new stuff and what's allowed today. But

235
00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:22,240
it's easily you can go look it
up and see when that application was overstated.

236
00:18:22,599 --> 00:18:27,720
Now, if you meet all of
these conditions, then it's an existing

237
00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:33,759
building. It's allowed to stay.
But that does not affect new installations.

238
00:18:33,799 --> 00:18:37,200
Okay, new installations is not gonna
work. You're gonna have to have four

239
00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:42,880
conductors. So I think what I
see the most is images and illustrations.

240
00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:48,440
I shouldn't see illustrations, images and
picking up pictures of people posting their work

241
00:18:49,079 --> 00:18:55,599
and the main bonding jumpers in there, and it's clearly a remote distribution panel.

242
00:18:55,599 --> 00:18:59,279
It's a feeder panel and it's being
supplied by a feeder. And when

243
00:18:59,279 --> 00:19:03,079
you look at it really closely,
you will notice that the equipment grounds are

244
00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:12,160
connected right, and they're connected to
the the grounded conductor improperty through a main

245
00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:19,039
bonding jumper, and that creates improper
connection, an improper case to neutral connection,

246
00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:23,039
and that's a problem, and you're
not supposed to do that, and

247
00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:29,400
that's a direct violation of two fifty
twenty four A five And it creates circulating

248
00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:32,759
currents, It creates potential live parts
that are carrying current because we know the

249
00:19:32,799 --> 00:19:37,759
neutral is going to carry current at
all times. It carries the maximum imbalanced

250
00:19:37,799 --> 00:19:44,079
load between the phases, so nothing
is totally balanced, especially in a dwelling.

251
00:19:44,759 --> 00:19:47,440
So at the end of the day, there will be current circulating on

252
00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:48,640
that and we remember it only takes
a tenth of an amp to kill you,

253
00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:55,440
and we don't need to be energizing
metal parts downstream, so at the

254
00:19:55,599 --> 00:20:00,799
end of the day. That is
probably the number one that I find or

255
00:20:00,839 --> 00:20:07,680
that people show me pictures of or
get asked about, is improper case to

256
00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:14,599
neutrals in using the grounded conductor downstream
to bond metal parts, which is not

257
00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:17,720
to be done. It is okay
to use it on the supply side of

258
00:20:17,759 --> 00:20:22,119
the service disconnect, and we get
those permissions in the code. And if

259
00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:25,559
you want to know in the code
where you get those permissions, by the

260
00:20:25,559 --> 00:20:29,559
way, to do that on the
supply side, use the grounded conductor to

261
00:20:29,599 --> 00:20:33,240
bond wireways and whatever. On the
apply side, then you need to take

262
00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:37,720
your codebook and what you'll do is
you're go looking into it and you'll see

263
00:20:37,759 --> 00:20:44,200
where it gives you that permission to
use the grounded conductor on the supply side.

264
00:20:44,759 --> 00:20:48,240
Now, before I even talk about
that, I want to make sure

265
00:20:48,279 --> 00:20:52,160
that we're all on the same page
that when we're talking about that, it's

266
00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:56,039
called the supply side equipment and the
use of the grounded conductor for bonding,

267
00:20:56,319 --> 00:21:00,200
not the load side, the supply
side, and that would be two fifty

268
00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:03,559
dot one forty two. So if
you want to go look at that,

269
00:21:03,039 --> 00:21:08,720
there you go right. So now, if you want reassurance that you don't

270
00:21:08,759 --> 00:21:12,400
make this connection on the load side, then you want to make sure that

271
00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:18,200
you also look at two fifty one
forty two B because that's going to remind

272
00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:22,640
you again and it's going to give
you some exceptions for things like ranges and

273
00:21:22,799 --> 00:21:26,559
dryers that were permitted at one time, just like we talked about for the

274
00:21:26,599 --> 00:21:32,279
feeder, at one time it was
permitted right, and it's going to make

275
00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:36,440
references to that, and that's you
know, things that are covered in two

276
00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:40,359
fifty one forty for the ranges and
dryers and all that kind of good stuff.

277
00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:44,480
But that's not something you can do
today. That is something that's from

278
00:21:44,599 --> 00:21:49,200
existing application, all right, And
you'll also see, you know that what

279
00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:52,279
you can do on the supply side, you can't do on the load side.

280
00:21:52,519 --> 00:21:56,240
Now, if you want to see
about ranges and dryers and the exception

281
00:21:56,400 --> 00:22:00,960
for that, just go to two
fifty one forty, pause the podcast,

282
00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:03,559
go let's look at that and you'll
get a better understanding. Now. As

283
00:22:03,559 --> 00:22:07,400
I always say, if you have
any questions about what I went over,

284
00:22:07,519 --> 00:22:11,680
again, I understand that this is
an audible world and it's sometimes hard to

285
00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:17,400
paint that mental picture, and I
try to do my best. But you

286
00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:22,640
all know that you can go over
to Paul Abernathy dot com. Of course,

287
00:22:22,799 --> 00:22:27,240
for that matter, you could actually
go to our website and do that

288
00:22:27,279 --> 00:22:36,599
as well, right, but we
prefer you to just go over and just

289
00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:40,039
go to Paul Abernathy dot com and
do that. That's what we would prefer

290
00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:44,359
you do that, and that way
you can send us a question and we'll

291
00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:48,920
answer the question in a podcast,
or we'll answer it on our New Wednesday

292
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:53,279
night coming June fifteenth, but you'll
also get an email from me. I

293
00:22:53,319 --> 00:22:57,640
will tell you one thing I am
not like most educators. I do my

294
00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:02,079
best to respond to your emails.
If I happen to forget you, just

295
00:23:02,079 --> 00:23:04,400
just tag me again and let me
know, Hey, did you didn't get

296
00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:08,279
my email? Because I get hundreds
and hundreds of emails a week, people

297
00:23:08,319 --> 00:23:12,799
asking me for opinions and consulting and
code questions. And of course we have

298
00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:18,480
the students and then you know,
our program has over five thousand students through

299
00:23:18,519 --> 00:23:22,680
its history, and we're still connected
with all our students. So even if

300
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:26,079
they finished the program, I'm still
there as a resource for them. They're

301
00:23:26,079 --> 00:23:29,759
in the family. That's another benefit
to our program. You're in the family,

302
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:34,400
right, so you know that's just
another benefit you get. All right,

303
00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:40,519
So anyway, hopefully I answered that
question that to me is the number

304
00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:45,640
one thing that I get asked or
that I see in images, is in

305
00:23:45,759 --> 00:23:51,160
proper case to neutral or connecting between
the equipment ground and the grounded conductor on

306
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:56,759
the load side of a service disconnect
except where it's kind of a legacy thing

307
00:23:56,839 --> 00:24:02,319
that we looked at in two fifty
thirty two B or in two fifty one

308
00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:07,960
forty exception and things like that.
So other than that, that is probably

309
00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:10,680
the number one thing that I see
out there. So here's the moral,

310
00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:17,799
here's the executive summary of this.
Anytime that you're going to run four conductors

311
00:24:17,839 --> 00:24:22,599
to a range, or to a
dryer or to a detached structure, okay,

312
00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:25,519
Well, you know what, even
if you put a panel in your

313
00:24:25,559 --> 00:24:29,640
attached structure, if it's still a
remote distribution panel, you still have to

314
00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:33,759
separate the grounds and the neutrals,
elevate the neutrals, the grounds, go

315
00:24:33,839 --> 00:24:38,319
to a terminal that connects it to
the case or the enclosure, and keep

316
00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:44,119
it isolated. You only can bring
them together at the service anything downstream,

317
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:48,519
no boy, no, okay,
So again, go check out the code.

318
00:24:48,519 --> 00:24:51,720
If you have any other questions on
that, feel free to email me

319
00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:56,119
or just go to our Paul Abernathy
dot com and let us know. Let

320
00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:57,640
you know what episode this is,
and if you have a follow up question,

321
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:02,559
please feel free to reach out to
us and I'll be more than happy

322
00:25:02,559 --> 00:25:03,759
to try to help you. Until
next time, folks, Stay safe,

323
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:30,680
God bless ask ask ask