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Hello, and welcome to Open Mind
UFO Radio. I am your host,

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Alejandro Rojas, and I am here
with Martin uh rolling Stone willis again.

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Yes I'm on the road. Didn't
I do rolling Stone before? Yes?

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You did, but that's you know, going back. Did I sing it

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a little bit? You haven't sang
yet, and please enlighten up. So

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I'll make it this is this will
make it unique because I like to sing

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this song. Papa was a Martin
was a rolling Stone web he lays his

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head is his home. And when
he died, but you didn't die,

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so that no, oh year left. This was a low lo there you

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go. I like I especially liked
the music, but yeah, I was

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waiting for you hit that high note, didn't mean and when he died,

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I just can't do it. I
can't go that high. Yeah, I

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have to scream it out man.
And plus I felt that by saying and

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when he died, when I was
singing about because you haven't died and I

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don't want to give you any bad
juju. Yeah that's true. Wow.

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Yeah, I got enough of it
around me. I don't that. Yeah,

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bad juju is bad. So interesting
show today controversial Roswell Show Now that

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we're getting into June, we're getting
very much closer. We're about a month

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away from the Roswell Festival and I'll
be speaking there for the Roswell Daily Record,

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and my guest today, Nick Redfern, will be speaking as well.

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Interesting enough, he's speaking for a
like a religious group who believes that aliens

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are demons whoa and people UFO believers
might think he's a demon as well when

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they hear that he's talking about Roswell
and he's being about Bitzack religious and that

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he's introducing an alternative theory that does
not include aliens what he feels the Roswell

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crash could have been. And he
talks about how this is not just something

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he came up with essentially, but
that some mysterious witnesses have told him about.

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So we'll be talking about this.
This is Some people might be like,

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hey, man, you just had
Nick Redfern a couple months ago,

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which is true, but that's because
this guy keeps writing books, man,

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he keeps belting them out. And
he just had that cool three hundred and

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sixty five Days of UFO's book come
out a few months ago. So that's

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what we interviewed him about last time, and now we've got him on about

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this new Roswell book that I'm sure
they scrambled to get it out in time

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for this kind of what is it, the seventieth anniversary, and he did

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it. So we're talking to him
about this. Yeah, I'm really really

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interested to hear what he has to
say. I know this he had the

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book I think was The Body Snatchers
or something backed Body Snatchers in the Desert.

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Yeah, that's right, And so
this is kind of like a follow

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up with more inform, right,
Yeah, I'm really interested to hear your

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arguments and his responses. Yeah.
This, you know, I probably could

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have maybe pushed him harder, but
you know, I'm not like a super

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Roswell expert. I mean, of
course I'm up to speed on things.

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And I did interview Kevin Randall not
too long ago about his new Roswell book,

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which was great, and so I
felt I was, you know,

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and I and I figured I'm going
to try to put him to task a

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little bit. But he really does
a good job in answering the questions and

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he even made me think, hey, maybe this is a plausible possibility.

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So yeah, interesting stuff. Yeah, so it's yeah, it will be

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great to listen to. I did
hear him on another show, but I

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only caught a little part of it, So yeah, I can't wait to

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hear this one. So but before
we talk to Nick, let's talk about

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the news. We've got a couple
kind of big pieces of news here.

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But let's see what you want to
talk about first. Yeah, all right,

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sure, This I think is very
interesting because of the photos. This

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happened in your neck of the woods, Phoenix, I mean Apache County,

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Arizona, and it happened back and
on April fourteenth, just a few weeks

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back, and there's some great pictures
on this. So I want the listener

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to check it out, the story
out. The title of the show is

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Arizona Photos, Arizona UFO witness describes
six hovering discs now the pictures, it

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just looks like, you know,
it looks like a surround of lights.

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They also mentioned that it seemed to
beam light down toward the ground. Now,

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it was a woman witness. She
said she was on on a train

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going through Apache County basically, and
she was couldn't sleep, looked out the

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window and saw a very bright light. It became brighter and brighter as the

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train approached, and so she called
them six objects side by side, and

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she actually said that she saw two
rows of windows and she felt it was

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like a two story object. What
did you think of these pictures? I

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think they're pretty pretty interesting. At
first, I looked and I thought,

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oh, that's a reflection of a
highway light, you know, which we

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see happen sometimes. Yeah, and
I guess it could be. But then,

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you know, as I read on
and looked at the picture, I

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thought, well, maybe not.
This person is not on the highway like

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I assumed so, and it seems
kind of on its own, out there

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outside of like you said, this
train, so kind of interesting. And

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then the last photo is a bright
and it's so bright you can't really tell

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what it is, so it could
be practically anything. But then I read

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this line, which I really like
because it seems like a friend of the

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witness posted this for the witness and
his friend said, she's no bs,

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kind of lady lady. Yeah,
so there's a there's a you know,

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they're so it is interesting. Yeah. I like the story, and so

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it's it's actually being investigated by Christine
Wolfe I'm not sure if you know who

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she is. She's an Arizona field
investigator for move On and and so I

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don't know how that. You know, usually Roger will post how the case

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is, whether it's open or closed, and so I'm guessing this is still

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being investigated. Yeah. Yeah,
it says this one's still under investigation.

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So he warns, please be cautious
because you never know what they're going to

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find out. So this one's still
under investigation. So I'll be excited to

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hear what they figure find out.
Yeah. Now, when something is if

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there's some new news on a story
like this, can you actually find out

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that information like on a move on
website or something not really Rogers got to

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post it typically and hopefully, you
know, the state director or researcher will

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alert Roger that there is new info
so he can know because otherwise it's a

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barrage of information. You know,
they have these sightings coming in every day,

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so I know it's hard to keep
up on. But one thing that's

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really cool is you know we have
Robert Powell on every year who's part of

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their board of scientific researcher. Something
I can't remember the name. I think

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that's what they're called, and they
do a top ten where they review all

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of the best sightings and come up
with they feel are the best sightings of

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the Sometimes they don't even come up
with ten because they don't feel there's ten

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worthy sightings. So so that's that's
a great service because then you know somebody's

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scrubbing these and if this story is
is really great, then we'll hear from

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Robert and the full analysis, you
know, later this year. Yeah.

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I actually like that fact that they
don't just go ahead and post ten if

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they don't feel as though something that's
deserving of it. I like that too.

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Yeah, it speaks to their credibility. The Scientific Review Board, that's

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what they're called, I think is
one of the best parts of that organization.

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Yeah. There's a lot of great
investigators out there, a lot of

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them throughout the country. But the
board is a great thing that they've put

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together. And these people all do
this for free. They don't eat their

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time and a lot of time.
Yeah. So another a couple other bigger

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stories. Did you see Bob Bigelow
on sixty Minutes? I did. I

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heard about it, I didn't actually
see it. Yes, So this was

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she he was interviewed by Laura Logan
and on sixty Minutes, and of course

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this was more about the conventional stuff, the space stuff that he's doing,

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which is a lot of fun.
And of course you and I talk about

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this a lot because I am a
fan of Big Low and Big Lower of

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space and what they're doing. So
they have, you know, an inflatable

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unit up on the International Space Station
right now. And of course, as

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we've talked about through the show and
interviewed with people, he's also been into

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UFOs, so he on sixty Minutes
they asked him about that. Logan asked

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him, do you believe in aliens? He said, I'm absolutely convinced.

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That's all there is to it.
She then said, do you also believe

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that UFOs have come to Earth?
He said, there has been and is

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an existing presence and et presence.
And I spent millions and millions and millions.

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I probably spent more than as any
I probably spent more as an individual

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than anybody else in the United States
has ever spent on this subject. She

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says, it is is it risky
for you to say in public that you

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believe in UFOs and aliens? He
says, I don't give a damn.

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I don't care for Yeah. So
she says, you don't worry what some

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people may say. Did you hear
that guy? He sounds like he's crazy.

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Bigelow says, I don't care.
It's not going to make a difference.

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It's not going to change reality of
what I know. Isn't that great?

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Yeah? Right there on sixty minutes. So that was really cool.

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Of course, a lot of people
are excited about what we've known about Bigelow's

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UFO's interest for a long time.
He did a great interview with George Knapp,

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a couple on Coast to coast.
They are friendly with each other and

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know each other. So those have
been the best interviews I think so far

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with big Low. But really cool
stuff. So and I kind of running

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out of time, minis, so
I want to get into the other story,

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which is kind of big, which
is on another radio station, Inception

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Radio. Peter Robbins has finally come
out and said that, you know,

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one of the rendalschrom Forest witnesses,
the first Larry Warren, has been deceitful

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and he no longer believes him and
doesn't know you know, and feels out

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to that he can't be trusted,
which is kind of something actually many of

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us have felt. I even asked
Nick Pope about it. You know,

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I've had them both on to talk
about kind of these these topics which have

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been very sensitive, and I've talked
to Nick Pope why he didn't include Larry

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Warren in his book, and Nick
Pope says, because you know, we

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were using people who had more than
one witness who saw whatever they saw,

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which I think makes a lot of
sense, and Larry Warren doesn't. It

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makes a lot of claims that aren't
substantiated or backed up by anybody else.

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And then, of course Colonel Halt
has not had the nicest things to say

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about Larry Warren. But finally,
and there are some other legal issues and

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other issues that really, you know, we're not the type of of radio

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show to bring out dirty laundry,
but there's more stuff back there that lies

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that he's been caught up in and
threats that he's made to people who have

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called him out on it. So
finally Peter has said, you know,

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finally, I'm I've seen enough that
I am agreeing with pretty much all the

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other a lot of the other researchers
out there that, and he's been so

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close to Larry and Peter Robbins is
a great guy. He's a really good

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person, and so I know this
must have been hard for him. He's

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just being a loyal friend, I
mean, I think is what he's been

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trying to do. And so that's
kind of interesting. Some other news in

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the ufology world. Well, good
for Peter. Now, I consider him

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a friend. He's a lot of
people do, yes, But you know,

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I saw I haven't spoken to him
in a while, but I did

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see something that he posted on his
Facebook page a while back in reference to

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what you're talking about. Very it
was a very you know, blunt,

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short phrase. But but yeah,
I'm really really glad because that's been kind

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of a wedge I think against or
in between Peter in the community a little

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bit, because a lot of people
kind of knew what was going on.

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Yeah, good for him. I
agree with you, yep, So good

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for him. So that is the
UFO news. I'm done. That's good,

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Okay, cool. Well, I
know you're a busy fella and you

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got i'm sure lots of cool stuff
to do today. But thanks so much

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for coming in and joining us on
the news again. My pleasure as always.

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All right, we'll talk to you
later. Yeah, take care.

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Okay, let's go ahead and talk
to Nick. I am happy to welcome

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back Nick Redfern. You were on
the show not too long ago. But

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you keep belting out these books so
quickly. I guess I do. So

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your new one. Now you have
a new one. And this is highly

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controversial, especially for the fiftieth anniversary, and it's about Roswell, and essentially

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now this is a sequel. Yeah, that's right. I did a book

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back in two thousand and five called
Body Snatches in the Desert, and this

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one sort of twelve years later.
It's not sort of an updated version of

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the originally, it's sort of,
you know, a brand new book that

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looks into, as you said,
a very controversial area, the idea that

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Roswell may not have been a UFO
event, but sort of more of like

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a dark and disturbing experiments, domestic
experiments, you know, human experiments.

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And of course you know, I
mean it creates a lot of controversy,

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mainly because within the field of euthology, Roswell is seen as the number one

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case. You know, for many
people, it's untouchable. It's like the

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holy grail of euthology. But you
know, I've always been of the opinion

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that we need to look at each
case on its own merits and look for

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date evidence and not get caught up
in belief systems. So but you know,

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the thing I've always stressed with this
book, and as I stressed with

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the original book for the first book, I should say, this isn't sort

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of an exercise in debunking and saying
that, you know, everybody in upology

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is stupid, they couldn't get it
right. It's nothing like that at all.

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It's not like a debunking debunking the
extraterrestrial angle. It's demonstrating to the

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reader how and why I think it's
possible that there's another explanation. You know,

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I'm not sort of saying, you
know that Roswell researchers are just fools,

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they've got it wrong. There's nothing
like that approach at all, because

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you know that that's not what the
book's about. It just presents an alternative

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theory and I put it out for
people, and you know, you see

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where the pennies drop, so to
speak, in terms of what people think

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of it. What the you know, the support in data is and are

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we try and figure out you know, we're all we're all looking to solve

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Roswell. You know that, because
he could be the case that makes all

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breaks uthology depending on which way it
goes, you know, mm hmmm.

211
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Yeah, And I I agree with
you. Even with Roswell that I like,

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for instance, I have not settled
on a definite conclusion. I think

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there's some interesting stuff we had at
the beginning of the year, Kevin randall

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On with his new book, and
of course there are rumors that he had

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changed his mind. He hadn't,
but he was doing like you said,

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he was taking a step back,
taking a new look at all the evidence

217
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to say, you know, what
do we have here? And he admits

218
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that, you know, he is
in you know, someone who's known as

219
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a Roswell ce researchers is not certain
even though he's probably one of the you

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know, highly knowledgeable and all the
evidence that's been collected so far. Yeah,

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I think, you know, I
mean, I like his new book,

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but I do know that it did
surprise some people when, as you

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said, you know, he's not
sort of on the fence as such,

224
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he's you know, he's looking at
it impartially. But I think that if

225
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you read his book, the one
area in which he has sort of turned

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away from to a significant degree is
on the issue of the alien bodies.

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You know, a lot of the
accounts that were previously seen as supportive.

228
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You know, Kevin has actually sort
of walked away from a lot of those

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witnesses and those stories that that is
sort of the I guess, you know

230
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that the bigger aspect within that particular
book of his that really does sort of

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demonstrate how he's like, well,
you know, let's just see where he

232
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goes, because I'm not satisfied that
this testimony, you know, is worth

233
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what we thought it was h right, So so now here you come and

234
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now and I don't know why,
And I think that's because I've always wanted

235
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to talk to you further about this
aspect or your theory here, and I

236
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don't think we ever have. And
I for some reason, and maybe it

237
00:19:08.960 --> 00:19:11.839
was someone who had told me this, and maybe it's not true, I

238
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felt that you. I was told
that you were disillusioned or you had changed

239
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your mind about this theory. So
when this book came out to further support

240
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this idea, you know, I
was really interested to hear more about it,

241
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So I guess no, No,
I haven't sort of switched back to

242
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change in my mind. What I've
always been brutally honest and said is that,

243
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you know, over the years,
I've interviewed quite a few retired people

244
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from the military, et cetera who
related this story to me and also to

245
00:19:41.839 --> 00:19:47.079
other sources as well. But I've
been brutally honest in saying, if you

246
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asked me, in all honesty,
can I prove it's not a disinformation program?

247
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No, I can't. You know, a lot of researchers won't say

248
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things like that because they think it
weakens their case, But it doesn't weaken

249
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your case. If you've been brutally
honest and you say, you know,

250
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people ask me could I have been
lied to? Meaning me, could I

251
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have been lied to? I could
have been lied to. I cannot deny

252
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that. And that's also one reason
to put the story out to see if

253
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we can get more people to come
through who can vindicate it, or you

254
00:20:21.039 --> 00:20:23.400
know, somebody may welcome forward and
say, well, I was in charge

255
00:20:23.440 --> 00:20:27.680
of a program to put out of
disinformation program and the program was the one

256
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you're talking about. So in other
words, I haven't changed my personally changed

257
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my views, but I am totally
open to the idea that there could be

258
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other kind of scenarios and people pulling
the strings behind the scenes that we're not

259
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seen and we're not getting a clear
picture, you know. And I think

260
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that's an important thing to note,
is you can have faith and strength in

261
00:20:52.039 --> 00:20:56.640
your theory, but you know,
to say that I'm one hundred percent sure

262
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without actually having proved is ridiculous.
You know, it becomes a belief system.

263
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You know, we can say it's
one hundred we know for shoot,

264
00:21:07.559 --> 00:21:10.960
there aliens crashed or didn't when we've
got proof. If we haven't got proof,

265
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which we don't have. You know, the ironic thing is we don't

266
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have literal proof in the terms proof
is meant. We don't have proof for

267
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any theory. I mean, ironically, even the Air Force admitted that when

268
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they said they thought it was a
Mogul balloon, they openly admitted in their

269
00:21:23.519 --> 00:21:30.160
report they didn't find a single document
to support or to prove that a Moga

270
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balloon came down on the ranch.
That was just their theory based on what

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they concluded after looking at the data. So you know, you have to

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if you're honest with yourself and you
know you have to and you've got a

273
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theory, you have to admit it's
a theory. Mm hmm. Well great.

274
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So now that we've got probably I
would guess that there's a portion,

275
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maybe a good portion of the listeners
who don't know your theory, so they're

276
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wondering what the heck is going on
nine here, So let's get into that.

277
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Yeah, what theory are you proposing
here? Okay, Well, just

278
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before I get to the thee when
you said it's sort of my theory.

279
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That's one of the things I address
in the book because the same story that

280
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I got was actually given to me, excuse me, given to Popular Mechanics

281
00:22:18.920 --> 00:22:23.720
magazine in nineteen ninety nine, and
Leonard Stringfield, an early crashed UFO re,

282
00:22:23.799 --> 00:22:29.759
said he was given the story in
nineteen ninety and John Keel wrote about

283
00:22:29.799 --> 00:22:33.160
it in ninety one and ninety three. But the big difference is that I

284
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was the only one who wrote a
book on it. So I guess people

285
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do because the book's more visible,
people kind of tie me to. But

286
00:22:41.039 --> 00:22:44.039
actually the story has been out there
for quite a while, but most people

287
00:22:44.079 --> 00:22:47.359
dismissed it. They said well,
they just couldn't be. But basically,

288
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to sort of sort of boil it
down to the basic theory, if we

289
00:22:52.599 --> 00:22:56.000
go back to the final stages of
the Second World War, now, just

290
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before the Japanese were defeated, when
the bombs were dropped on Nagasaki and Hiroshima,

291
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the Japanese were bragging that they were
going to build these huge balloons that

292
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could cross the Pacific and they would
basically be kind of like Kamakazi balloons.

293
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In the Second World War, the
Japanese did in kind of so called invade

294
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the United States with balloons. They
were called FuGO balloons, and they fired

295
00:23:22.640 --> 00:23:27.000
something where in the region of like
nine thousand of these balloons towards the US,

296
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and only a very small number reached
the US, and unfortunately, in

297
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one case the bombs exploded and killed
a number of people. But these FuGO

298
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balloons were small and flimsy. But
at the end of the Second World War,

299
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the Japanese were bragging that they were
going to build these huge balloons which

300
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would be able to cross the Pacific. They would have these gondolas attached below

301
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them, and they would have these
relatively short and light guys who were effectively

302
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take part in the Kamakazi Mission.
Now, at the end of the Second

303
00:24:00.440 --> 00:24:04.720
World War, when Japan and Germany
were defeated, a lot of German scientists

304
00:24:04.759 --> 00:24:10.759
rocket scientists were brought to the United
States and specifically to New Mexico under what

305
00:24:10.839 --> 00:24:14.960
was called Operation paper Clip. Well, a lot of people don't realize that

306
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there was also a Japanese equivalent of
Operation paper Clip, where a lot of

307
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the Japanese scientists working on these highly
advanced balloon programs were also brought over.

308
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And the story that I was given
by this was between nineteen excuse me,

309
00:24:30.039 --> 00:24:34.200
between two thousand and one and one. Of the latest stories come from just

310
00:24:34.200 --> 00:24:37.880
the last couple of years that've been
the book. But the original stories for

311
00:24:37.920 --> 00:24:41.039
the first book came to me between
two thousand and one and two thousand and

312
00:24:41.079 --> 00:24:45.440
four, and the people, these
elderly people from the military and the intelligence

313
00:24:45.480 --> 00:24:52.119
world, said that what came down
was one of these gigantic Japanese balloons that

314
00:24:52.200 --> 00:24:56.200
was being test flown with this device
attached below it, which had a crew

315
00:24:56.400 --> 00:25:02.400
on board, and that there was
some sort of aerial mishap where the balloon,

316
00:25:02.480 --> 00:25:07.400
which may be due to the feu
Et cetera, exploded in high in

317
00:25:07.480 --> 00:25:11.319
the sky and you had this huge
amount of this massive amount of this balloon

318
00:25:11.319 --> 00:25:15.920
debris floating down on the ranch in
one location. Now, because of the

319
00:25:15.960 --> 00:25:19.759
wind and the material being very light, you know, it had rained down

320
00:25:21.000 --> 00:25:26.000
according to to the wind patterns.
But the craft itself that was there was

321
00:25:26.079 --> 00:25:30.759
attached to this massive balloon array because
of its weight, it just plummeted down

322
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vertically. And they said, that
explains why even the UFO believers for oswell,

323
00:25:37.359 --> 00:25:38.680
say, there were two crash sites. There was one where you had

324
00:25:38.680 --> 00:25:44.079
this strange foil like material strewn for
like six hundred feet, and then you

325
00:25:44.119 --> 00:25:47.759
had another area a couple of miles
away, but still on the Foster ranch

326
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where you had this craft. And
the people I interviewed said, essentially,

327
00:25:52.279 --> 00:25:56.720
that's what happened. That the balloon
exploded in the sky, shattered and rained

328
00:25:56.759 --> 00:26:00.160
down. And we're not talking like
you know, the blue and anything flimsy.

329
00:26:00.160 --> 00:26:06.160
We're talking possibly something like the German
zeppelins that we used in the first

330
00:26:07.359 --> 00:26:12.319
like a massive balloon and all the
foil at one side, because it just

331
00:26:12.359 --> 00:26:15.240
rained down according to weather patterns and
the wind patterns. As I said,

332
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and you know, it's very light
and then the craft comes down just vertically.

333
00:26:19.559 --> 00:26:26.559
So that was basically the story.
When you say the people you interviewed,

334
00:26:26.640 --> 00:26:33.240
you mean like alleged government insiders.
Yes, yeah, it was a

335
00:26:33.279 --> 00:26:37.240
communa. One of them worked in
the medical community in a place called Oak

336
00:26:37.319 --> 00:26:44.200
Ridge, which was involved in the
atomic energy programs back in the forties and

337
00:26:44.240 --> 00:26:48.839
also on the atomic bomb program.
One of them she worked at oak Ridge

338
00:26:48.839 --> 00:26:56.319
in a medical capacity. Two of
the guys were in the intelligence community and

339
00:26:56.559 --> 00:27:00.079
one was in the military, and
they were all they all knew each other,

340
00:27:00.119 --> 00:27:03.200
and one of the people I got
to speak to. It's kind of

341
00:27:03.200 --> 00:27:07.160
a long winded story how I actually
got to speak to the woman, but

342
00:27:07.200 --> 00:27:11.200
I tell the story in the new
books how I met an interviewed her in

343
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the summer of two thousand and one
in la and then she put me in

344
00:27:15.359 --> 00:27:18.759
touch with these three other ones that
they all kind of worked together on this

345
00:27:18.920 --> 00:27:26.960
program in varying degrees. And so
this was the story that as it existed

346
00:27:26.039 --> 00:27:30.559
until sort of two thousand and five, when Body Snatchers in the Desert came

347
00:27:30.640 --> 00:27:33.519
out the first book, and since
then sort of the twelve years that have

348
00:27:33.680 --> 00:27:37.160
gone by since then, there's a
lot of new material. For example,

349
00:27:37.839 --> 00:27:45.720
well respected Australian research at Keith Basterfield
unknowing to me. When Body Snatchers was

350
00:27:45.759 --> 00:27:48.400
published, this was in the summer
of two thousand and five. It was

351
00:27:48.799 --> 00:27:55.319
July two thousand and five, and
because it was a controversial story, Simon

352
00:27:55.359 --> 00:27:59.440
and sus to the publisher kept it
very much under wraps between two thousand and

353
00:27:59.440 --> 00:28:02.680
three and two thousand and five,
which was when I started writing it and

354
00:28:02.759 --> 00:28:07.160
then and then publishing it. But
what I didn't realize until after the book

355
00:28:07.240 --> 00:28:11.839
was published, Keith Basterfield contacted me
and said, well, I've just read

356
00:28:11.880 --> 00:28:17.039
your book and I was actually given
an almost identical story. And so I

357
00:28:17.200 --> 00:28:19.519
spoke to Keith and he put me
in touch with his source and he interviewed

358
00:28:19.559 --> 00:28:26.200
the same source as well extensively.
And this was a British guy who had

359
00:28:26.519 --> 00:28:30.680
emigrated to Australia and his father was
in British intelligence and he told him basically

360
00:28:30.720 --> 00:28:37.799
the same story about this gigantic balloon
and this test craft that was strung below

361
00:28:37.839 --> 00:28:41.319
it, which was basically like a
hybrid type device. You would have this

362
00:28:41.440 --> 00:28:47.960
massive balloon and these sort of lifting
body glidercraft could detach from this giant balloon,

363
00:28:48.000 --> 00:28:51.960
it basically sort of save on fuel
and they could the balloons could travel

364
00:28:51.960 --> 00:28:56.519
at incredibly high heights, and when
the glider was detached, you know,

365
00:28:56.599 --> 00:29:02.880
the pilots would have sort of perfect
delivery system. And so when I spoke

366
00:29:02.920 --> 00:29:06.359
to Keith and then spoke to his
source, he told me that basically the

367
00:29:06.400 --> 00:29:12.200
same story, that this was one
of these gigantic balloons and this craft attached

368
00:29:12.240 --> 00:29:18.119
to it below. And they all
kind of also told the same story and

369
00:29:18.200 --> 00:29:23.160
why the whole issue was hidden.
You know, you'd wonder why actually hide

370
00:29:23.720 --> 00:29:30.359
the issue of a gigantic balloon and
an aircraft coming down, And they all

371
00:29:30.400 --> 00:29:36.440
said it wasn't so much the nature
of the operation that was being hidden or

372
00:29:36.480 --> 00:29:38.000
they had to be hidden. It
was the fact that, like with the

373
00:29:38.039 --> 00:29:41.960
paper Clip program with the Germans,
a secret deal had been done with the

374
00:29:42.079 --> 00:29:48.319
Japanese right after the war. And
what they said, the big concern was

375
00:29:48.359 --> 00:29:53.799
it wasn't the experiment. It wasn't
any super secret nature in relation to the

376
00:29:53.839 --> 00:30:00.079
craft itself or any sort of amazing
revolutionary technology. It was just how it

377
00:30:00.319 --> 00:30:07.519
reperceived if somebody looked into it.
And it backtracked to a deal with Japan,

378
00:30:07.960 --> 00:30:11.160
and they said that was why it
was all hidden, Because what made

379
00:30:11.160 --> 00:30:15.640
it controversial is that a lot of
the people working on the balloon programs were

380
00:30:15.640 --> 00:30:21.640
also attached to a Japanese program called
Unit seven three to one. Unit seven

381
00:30:21.680 --> 00:30:26.039
three one did sort of terrible experiments
on people in Japan, and you know

382
00:30:26.079 --> 00:30:30.279
they I mean in the name of
science as they saw it, but they

383
00:30:30.279 --> 00:30:37.000
did high altitude experiments and high pressure
low pressure experiments on people to figure out,

384
00:30:37.160 --> 00:30:41.480
how, you know, in the
as technology developed and the higher we

385
00:30:41.559 --> 00:30:45.640
get in the atmosphere, out the
atmosphere, how people would respond. So

386
00:30:45.079 --> 00:30:49.119
Unit seven three to one was sort
of like a no go area officially,

387
00:30:49.160 --> 00:30:52.440
but a lot of the people brought
over were actually attached to it. Now,

388
00:30:52.480 --> 00:30:59.920
what's interesting is that the guy who
oversaw Unit seven three to one was

389
00:31:00.480 --> 00:31:04.359
a high ranking officer named Charles Willoughby. It turns out that Charles Willoughby was

390
00:31:04.400 --> 00:31:10.640
a very close friend of Philip Corso, who wrote the book the day after

391
00:31:10.720 --> 00:31:15.960
Roswell in nineteen ninety seven, and
a couple of people who I interviewed claimed

392
00:31:15.200 --> 00:31:22.079
to know that Corso's book was a
deliberate endorsement of the UFO angle to hide

393
00:31:22.039 --> 00:31:27.279
the more controversial story that he'd be
or that he knew through Willoughby of this

394
00:31:27.359 --> 00:31:34.240
sort of Japanese collusion, you know, with this classified program. So you

395
00:31:34.240 --> 00:31:38.319
know, there are some strange threads
like that when you find Corso in his

396
00:31:38.839 --> 00:31:42.240
good friends with the guy who ran
the program to get all the Japanese blue

397
00:31:42.319 --> 00:31:48.200
material and high altitude material over not
just to the US, but to New

398
00:31:48.240 --> 00:31:52.200
Mexico as well. So you know, it's kind of strands and things like

399
00:31:52.319 --> 00:31:56.920
that that you know, the sort
of the meat of the story, so

400
00:31:56.039 --> 00:32:02.079
to speak. So you think that
what came out in late nineties or or

401
00:32:02.160 --> 00:32:06.799
was that well it was the summer
of ninety seven. It was brought out

402
00:32:06.880 --> 00:32:13.559
to celebrate the fiftieth anniversary of Roswell, and so you think fifty years later

403
00:32:13.599 --> 00:32:20.200
they still wanted to keep that secret
so badly that or at least Courso did

404
00:32:21.599 --> 00:32:29.839
that. They Yeah, yeah,
emphasized the alien angle, you know,

405
00:32:29.960 --> 00:32:34.680
to the ultimate degree. Now whether
or not that's true, you know that

406
00:32:34.920 --> 00:32:37.200
again, you know, I'm open
minded. I can only tell the story

407
00:32:37.400 --> 00:32:42.839
as it was told to me,
and also you know, provide back up

408
00:32:43.000 --> 00:32:45.000
data, you know, I mean, for example, I was told about

409
00:32:45.000 --> 00:32:50.480
this Japanese equivalent to the paper Clip
program. You know, I mean most

410
00:32:50.519 --> 00:32:53.440
people say, I've heard of Operation
paper Clip, which was which you know,

411
00:32:53.480 --> 00:32:58.200
you may have heard of it yourself. It's a legitimate program where when

412
00:32:58.240 --> 00:33:02.680
the Germans were defeated, the was
that the Russians would get their hands on

413
00:33:02.720 --> 00:33:07.599
all the German scientists and all the
rocket tree technology. So it was a

414
00:33:07.680 --> 00:33:10.119
kind of like doing a deal with
the devil where we had to grab those

415
00:33:10.160 --> 00:33:15.359
German scientists and all the technology,
even though many of them were sort of

416
00:33:15.519 --> 00:33:19.680
ardent Nazis, because if we didn't, but the Russians would have got them,

417
00:33:20.039 --> 00:33:22.960
and in a worst case scenario,
you know, they may have perfected

418
00:33:22.240 --> 00:33:27.880
atomic weapons before we did and then
launched them. So it's kind of like

419
00:33:28.000 --> 00:33:32.400
doing you know, the definitive Faustian
Pact now. So in other words,

420
00:33:32.519 --> 00:33:38.599
the idea that there was a Japanese
equivalent isn't that far out. But as

421
00:33:38.599 --> 00:33:42.400
I said, you know, I
was able to take the stories they told

422
00:33:42.440 --> 00:33:45.599
me so far, which was to
confirm that you know, all these files

423
00:33:45.680 --> 00:33:50.000
on Unit seventy three one were brought
out, but you can actually now read

424
00:33:50.039 --> 00:33:52.839
them at the National Archives in Maryland
now of course they don't mention Roswell,

425
00:33:52.880 --> 00:33:57.519
otherwise we would all know the answer. But the files that talk about all

426
00:33:57.559 --> 00:34:01.559
the you know, the personnel being
you know, sort of turned a blind

427
00:34:01.559 --> 00:34:06.640
eye, and in terms of you
know, they were prosecuted as war criminals.

428
00:34:07.440 --> 00:34:10.840
The technologies brought over the papers and
excuse me. But then it was

429
00:34:10.880 --> 00:34:15.239
a case of me trying to think, well, okay, that's an interesting

430
00:34:15.280 --> 00:34:19.280
story. What can we find that
might support it. One is this,

431
00:34:19.440 --> 00:34:22.320
you know, this claim they made
about Corso and Willoughby, And when I

432
00:34:22.360 --> 00:34:25.440
looked into it, sure enough they
were friends for years. They worked intimately

433
00:34:25.480 --> 00:34:30.920
on not just intelligence programs, but
disinformation programs together as well, which is

434
00:34:31.000 --> 00:34:36.480
kind of an interesting thing now.
As I said, the other angle,

435
00:34:36.679 --> 00:34:40.320
which was completely separate from me,
was that in nineteen ninety nine, Popular

436
00:34:40.360 --> 00:34:45.639
Mechanics published an article by a guy
named James Peters, and he's and Public

437
00:34:45.800 --> 00:34:52.199
Mechanics, you know, a very
credible magazine. He said that in ninety

438
00:34:52.239 --> 00:34:55.760
seven, excuse me that ninety nine
that they had been told are the forthcoming

439
00:34:55.840 --> 00:35:02.280
release of documents which would show that
there was a Japanese equivalent to Roswell,

440
00:35:02.840 --> 00:35:07.840
and some of the bodies were these
smaller Japanese people that were going to be

441
00:35:07.960 --> 00:35:13.320
used in one of these flights and
this gigantic balloon, etcetera, etcetera.

442
00:35:13.440 --> 00:35:16.320
Now, of course we know that
no such file surface, but what did

443
00:35:16.360 --> 00:35:22.400
surface instead was the Air Force's crash
test dummy report instead. But in other

444
00:35:22.440 --> 00:35:27.360
words, there were long before I
even started to write the book. I

445
00:35:27.360 --> 00:35:30.119
didn't write the book till two thousand
and three, published in two thousand and

446
00:35:30.119 --> 00:35:32.880
five, and the first person I
interviewed was in two thousand and one,

447
00:35:34.400 --> 00:35:39.039
but four years before, in nineteen
ninety seven, Popular Mechanics was always already

448
00:35:39.039 --> 00:35:43.639
on the trail of this Japanese angle. So you know, in other words,

449
00:35:43.639 --> 00:35:47.000
there are these are kinds of things
I look for when you're investigating something

450
00:35:47.119 --> 00:35:52.920
controversial, the threads and leads that
come not just to me but come to

451
00:35:52.960 --> 00:35:57.800
other people, and where the sources
are clearly different as well. And sort

452
00:35:57.800 --> 00:36:00.880
of just one other angle on this, which takes us back to the alien

453
00:36:00.920 --> 00:36:05.880
bodies. One of the guys who
everybody acknowledges was that Roswell. At the

454
00:36:07.840 --> 00:36:09.719
at the time, he's actually the
yearbook, you know, the basic yearbook,

455
00:36:10.440 --> 00:36:15.000
was a guy named Melvin Brown,
and he was one of the people

456
00:36:15.000 --> 00:36:19.159
who's been tied to the issue of
seeing the alien bodies. But he told

457
00:36:19.159 --> 00:36:22.360
his family, and this is a
direct exact quote he told his family quote

458
00:36:22.760 --> 00:36:28.000
that the bodies he saw could have
passed for Chinese, that his exact words

459
00:36:28.039 --> 00:36:32.760
could have passed for Chinese, which
doesn't sound like your average alien gray you

460
00:36:32.800 --> 00:36:38.440
know though. So again it things
like this. Now, as I said,

461
00:36:38.679 --> 00:36:42.800
what does it mean? What does
it prove? He doesn't prove anything,

462
00:36:42.840 --> 00:36:46.280
because nothing about Roswell is provable.
But what he does for me is

463
00:36:46.320 --> 00:36:51.519
it pushes me on, even if
as just as a lone wolf how to

464
00:36:51.559 --> 00:36:57.000
speak, to try and get to
the bottom of what this Japanese thread actually

465
00:36:57.039 --> 00:37:01.800
means. Well, when I find
interesting about it is one that, you

466
00:37:01.840 --> 00:37:06.800
know, the Air Force for some
odd reason, uh you know, like

467
00:37:06.840 --> 00:37:10.519
you said earlier, Kevin Randall even
argues that there aren't really great witnesses when

468
00:37:10.519 --> 00:37:15.559
it comes to the bodies, but
for some weird reason, the Air Force

469
00:37:15.639 --> 00:37:21.360
decided to try to explain away the
body issue, which almost gives credence to

470
00:37:22.320 --> 00:37:28.639
that there was some sort of of
bodies there. And so your explanation or

471
00:37:28.679 --> 00:37:32.599
your this theory would would explain that
the other thing is is that, you

472
00:37:32.599 --> 00:37:37.880
know, even when it comes to
Jesse Marcel Marcela, the intelligence officer was

473
00:37:37.920 --> 00:37:42.079
first on the scene to look at
the material, didn't see bodies, and

474
00:37:42.199 --> 00:37:47.599
his son who looked at the material, the material they describe is not all

475
00:37:49.000 --> 00:37:52.239
that incredibly foreign. It is foreign
and that it has foreign writing on it,

476
00:37:53.280 --> 00:37:57.679
and they could not identify it.
And they allegedly, you know,

477
00:37:57.800 --> 00:38:04.800
could it would self repair itself.
But it almost sounds like, you know,

478
00:38:05.039 --> 00:38:09.239
it doesn't sound necessarily like Mogul balloon, but it sounds something maybe a

479
00:38:09.239 --> 00:38:15.480
little more advanced, but something possibly
human. Well, yeah, and you

480
00:38:15.519 --> 00:38:19.360
know, I mean, this is
one of the big areas obviously of debate,

481
00:38:19.599 --> 00:38:23.000
is you know, why was the
Air Force's report on the crash test

482
00:38:23.440 --> 00:38:28.639
domies even put out. You can
absolutely one hundred percent correct when you say

483
00:38:28.639 --> 00:38:30.199
that, you know, I mean, for example, the first report,

484
00:38:30.239 --> 00:38:34.880
the Mogul report, which came out
in ninety four, the Air Force said

485
00:38:35.199 --> 00:38:37.719
words to the effect of, you
know, we don't address the issue of

486
00:38:37.760 --> 00:38:44.039
bodies in the book in this right
now report because Mogile balloons didn't have crews

487
00:38:44.119 --> 00:38:45.679
and that was left and that literally
was how it was left. But then

488
00:38:45.719 --> 00:38:50.880
in ninety seven they felt the or
at ninety six, I should say,

489
00:38:50.920 --> 00:38:53.079
because the report came out in ninety
seven, they felt the onus was on

490
00:38:53.159 --> 00:38:59.960
them to try and explain the accounts
of bodies, which, as you say,

491
00:39:00.079 --> 00:39:01.519
head, you know, it does
suggest that, you know, the

492
00:39:01.559 --> 00:39:07.079
Air Force is effectively acknowledging that some
sort of body was found, even if

493
00:39:07.119 --> 00:39:08.559
it was just the body of a
dummy. You know, if you can

494
00:39:08.599 --> 00:39:13.960
have a body of a dummy,
you know, you know, so that

495
00:39:13.960 --> 00:39:17.880
that was kind of odd. Now
again, one of the theories that was

496
00:39:17.920 --> 00:39:23.280
put to me was that within the
sort of intelligence community there's this silent battle

497
00:39:23.800 --> 00:39:27.880
to get the truth out about Roswell. And one of the one of the

498
00:39:27.880 --> 00:39:30.960
theors that was put to it was
the idea that the crash test dummy report

499
00:39:31.079 --> 00:39:36.800
was put out to sort of jump
the gun against anyone who might say,

500
00:39:37.280 --> 00:39:38.639
well, you know, there was
this sort of whole Japanese angle, and

501
00:39:38.679 --> 00:39:44.880
the Air Force would already have its
crash test dummy reports in place to say

502
00:39:44.920 --> 00:39:47.320
no, sorry, this is it. You know, anything else doesn't hold

503
00:39:47.360 --> 00:39:52.400
water, you know, So they
were kind of preempting anything else potentially coming

504
00:39:52.400 --> 00:39:55.920
out because they knew that if something
else did come out, it would be

505
00:39:55.960 --> 00:40:00.559
related to the bodies. So but
again that's you that's here say that's rumor,

506
00:40:00.639 --> 00:40:05.199
so you know, we cannot confirm
that. But I mean, what

507
00:40:05.360 --> 00:40:09.320
is interesting about the you know,
the so called memory metal as it's become

508
00:40:09.400 --> 00:40:15.920
known. One of the things that's
important to note is that in sort of

509
00:40:15.960 --> 00:40:19.760
forty five forty six, a lot
of the balloons that were being flown were

510
00:40:19.800 --> 00:40:25.039
just sort of regular polythene balloons.
But in late forty six and early forty

511
00:40:25.079 --> 00:40:30.320
seven, the balloons that the military
were using, they changed the actual design

512
00:40:30.400 --> 00:40:35.159
of them. So in other words, if you'd seen a military balloon sort

513
00:40:35.159 --> 00:40:37.039
of forty five forty six, you
would have seen a polythene balloon. But

514
00:40:37.199 --> 00:40:43.800
in early forty seven, what they
did they laminated their huge balloons with aluminum.

515
00:40:44.280 --> 00:40:50.800
And these laminated alluminum balloons, effectively
most people hadn't seen them. Now

516
00:40:50.840 --> 00:40:53.840
when you wadded them up, it
wasn't like definitive memory metal, where it

517
00:40:54.000 --> 00:40:59.760
returned to its one hundred percent original
shape with no creases or lines or anything

518
00:40:59.800 --> 00:41:01.079
like that, which is what some
of the witnesses have said. But it

519
00:41:01.079 --> 00:41:05.480
does open itself back up. It's
not like, you know, if you

520
00:41:05.519 --> 00:41:08.639
ever shed paper and you wadded up
in your hand, you just got a

521
00:41:08.639 --> 00:41:12.280
ball of paper. It wasn't like
that. It did open up again.

522
00:41:12.639 --> 00:41:16.000
And so if people had seen in
the desert, you know, in forty

523
00:41:16.039 --> 00:41:20.960
six, they would have seen polythene
balloons. For early forty seven onwards,

524
00:41:21.000 --> 00:41:24.519
they would have seen balloon polythine balloons, but coated with aluminum, which they

525
00:41:24.519 --> 00:41:28.360
would not have seen before. So
they might have thought, well, this

526
00:41:28.480 --> 00:41:31.079
is kind of odd. Now.
The other thing that a lot of people

527
00:41:31.199 --> 00:41:37.119
either don't know or forget is that
if you read the original newspaper interviews with

528
00:41:37.199 --> 00:41:42.679
Matt Brazil, the rancher who found
all the debris or you know, he

529
00:41:42.760 --> 00:41:45.280
died in the early sixties, so
nobody in the community, to the UFO

530
00:41:45.360 --> 00:41:50.239
community, was ever able to interview. But if you read the original local

531
00:41:50.320 --> 00:41:55.679
newspaper reports in Roswell, you know
when Brazil was essentially talking to the local

532
00:41:55.719 --> 00:42:00.039
press there, he just as an
off the cost statement. He admitted that

533
00:42:00.320 --> 00:42:06.719
on two previous occasions it found military
balloons on the ranch, and this is

534
00:42:06.960 --> 00:42:10.400
effectively the third thing that had come
down on the ranch, and those other

535
00:42:10.440 --> 00:42:15.920
two were weather devices, but there
were military weather devices, so you know,

536
00:42:16.360 --> 00:42:20.719
you think about it. Within just
a couple of years before Roswell,

537
00:42:21.159 --> 00:42:25.719
Brazil had already recovered two military devices
on the ranch, and then something else

538
00:42:25.800 --> 00:42:30.119
comes down, which is superficially balloon
Like. You have to wonder, what

539
00:42:30.199 --> 00:42:35.559
are the chances of two military balloons
coming down on the ranch and then an

540
00:42:35.559 --> 00:42:39.000
alien spacecraft two years later coming down
on the ranch which kind of looks like

541
00:42:39.039 --> 00:42:44.159
a balloon, you know. So
you know, it's funny you say that

542
00:42:44.199 --> 00:42:47.360
too, because I know one of
the people who was part of one of

543
00:42:47.400 --> 00:42:52.199
the Rise World digs, I think
it was Chuck Szukowski even oh, he

544
00:42:52.239 --> 00:42:57.679
said he found a balloon. They
actually found a weather balloon when they were

545
00:42:58.199 --> 00:43:01.920
at the site looking for stuff.
So yeah, made me that area the

546
00:43:02.000 --> 00:43:07.239
current the wind currents bring things over
there. Well yeah yeah. The other

547
00:43:07.280 --> 00:43:09.840
thing, of course, the Faster
Ranch as it was known back then.

548
00:43:09.880 --> 00:43:13.480
I mean, it's a gigantic ranch. You know, it's not like a

549
00:43:13.559 --> 00:43:16.159
couple of fields. It's huge.
So you know, if something came down

550
00:43:16.239 --> 00:43:22.760
with you know, I mean,
the story of for example, the debris

551
00:43:22.800 --> 00:43:29.400
site and the body site, and
also the crash site of the craft.

552
00:43:29.880 --> 00:43:32.360
I mean, their acknowledge has been
sort of two miles apart and you're still

553
00:43:32.360 --> 00:43:37.079
on the same ranch, you know, two miles. Yeah. And the

554
00:43:37.119 --> 00:43:39.199
other thing, of course, is
that things were dropping out of the sky

555
00:43:39.280 --> 00:43:43.119
then because you had, you know, a lot was going on in New

556
00:43:43.159 --> 00:43:45.920
Mexico. You had the Alamagordo Base
where a lot of test lights were taken

557
00:43:46.039 --> 00:43:51.000
place. You had White Sands,
you know, where the German rockets are

558
00:43:51.000 --> 00:43:54.599
being tested and other German devices.
You also had Los Alamos. You know,

559
00:43:54.639 --> 00:43:59.519
it was at the forefront of the
you know, the Atomic energy program,

560
00:43:59.639 --> 00:44:05.719
the Manhattan Project as well. So
you know, New Mexico was a

561
00:44:05.760 --> 00:44:12.440
hotbed of military classified activity in you
know, the immediate years after the Second

562
00:44:12.440 --> 00:44:17.360
World War. So you know that
there's a lot to think about because of

563
00:44:17.400 --> 00:44:22.679
the stakes you know that apply to
Roswell in terms of how it has been

564
00:44:22.760 --> 00:44:30.079
elevated to the number one case.
And I think you know, ufology is

565
00:44:30.119 --> 00:44:35.360
at fault in actually having a case
that is perceived as the number one because

566
00:44:35.400 --> 00:44:37.760
you know, it's like the old
added, the bigger they are, you

567
00:44:37.760 --> 00:44:42.039
know, the harder they formed,
right, And I don't mean that from

568
00:44:42.079 --> 00:44:45.880
like a gloating perspective. I just
mean that if you elevate one case to

569
00:44:45.920 --> 00:44:49.480
be the one that is going to
crack the whole thing wide open. You

570
00:44:49.960 --> 00:44:53.480
can be in a very dangerous position
if that one case that you've elevated falls

571
00:44:53.480 --> 00:44:59.079
apart. You know, it's like
euthology wouldn't be having a nervous breakdown if

572
00:44:59.079 --> 00:45:01.920
it was proved that, say,
the Secoro case wasn't extra terrestrial, or

573
00:45:01.960 --> 00:45:06.800
if a famous abduction case wasn't extra
terrestrial. But if it was proved aliens

574
00:45:06.840 --> 00:45:10.280
didn't crash at Roswell, I think
there would be major, major sort of

575
00:45:13.599 --> 00:45:17.519
disaster within eupology will almost be like
a breakdown. Well, I think you're

576
00:45:17.840 --> 00:45:22.440
exactly correct. I think you make
a great point because it has been for

577
00:45:22.480 --> 00:45:25.000
the reasons that you said. You
know, it's been lafted as this the

578
00:45:25.480 --> 00:45:30.480
number one case, and it's the
most well known case throughout the world.

579
00:45:31.000 --> 00:45:37.280
If it were to be definitively discovered
to be something mundane or human, a

580
00:45:37.280 --> 00:45:43.039
top secret project or what have you, then exactly the perception throughout the world,

581
00:45:43.199 --> 00:45:47.119
especially of the layman who's just maybe
got some light interest and is aware

582
00:45:47.159 --> 00:45:52.239
of Roswell, all of a sudden, their whole perception of upology will change

583
00:45:52.320 --> 00:45:57.119
to be like, oh, another
one that's been figured out yeah, and

584
00:45:57.199 --> 00:46:00.880
I think, you know, if
Roswell was just seen as like a very

585
00:46:00.920 --> 00:46:05.159
interesting and intriguing case with lots of
threads, like say, for example,

586
00:46:05.440 --> 00:46:09.840
the cash events, you know,
things like that, or the flying triangles,

587
00:46:10.760 --> 00:46:15.719
uphology wouldn't fall apart if those events
were shown to be mutine, which

588
00:46:15.719 --> 00:46:20.360
actually I don't think they were mundane. So I think, you know,

589
00:46:20.400 --> 00:46:23.599
there's there's a lot of ground to
be covered here, but also there are

590
00:46:23.599 --> 00:46:28.519
a lot of steaks, you know, in terms of what all this means,

591
00:46:30.199 --> 00:46:34.320
and you know what where it's all
going to lead. Will it lead

592
00:46:34.400 --> 00:46:37.599
anywhere? You know? Or are
we just going to be forever, you

593
00:46:37.639 --> 00:46:39.920
know, stuck with multiple different theories. It's a weather balloon and a mogul

594
00:46:39.960 --> 00:46:44.480
balloon, it was a Soviet device. You know, there are all sorts

595
00:46:44.519 --> 00:46:46.840
of theories. And you know,
I think either one or two things is

596
00:46:46.880 --> 00:46:52.199
going to happen. Either one day
we'll know for sure, or the further

597
00:46:52.280 --> 00:46:57.559
and further things go on, it'll
become like a UFO equivalent of Jack the

598
00:46:57.639 --> 00:47:00.920
Ripper, you know, like the
old story that everybody's heard about with lots

599
00:47:00.920 --> 00:47:05.719
of strands and the different theories who
Jat the Ripper was? But we can

600
00:47:05.800 --> 00:47:08.840
never solve it because it's too far
gone and nobody's left. Roswell now is

601
00:47:08.880 --> 00:47:15.199
in danger of becoming like a euthological
jat the Ripper in terms of nobody's left

602
00:47:15.199 --> 00:47:19.800
hardly now. We can't find any
official files. We've hit a brick wall.

603
00:47:20.360 --> 00:47:25.960
What do we do and without being
defeatist unless something surfaces officially or by

604
00:47:27.000 --> 00:47:30.599
accidents, which could be possible.
You know, it's kind of like we

605
00:47:30.719 --> 00:47:35.039
really are at that, you know, the sort of door. And I

606
00:47:35.039 --> 00:47:39.679
think there is a potential there is
a piece of evidence that may potentially shed

607
00:47:39.840 --> 00:47:44.079
light on all of this, and
you cover this in the book. I

608
00:47:44.119 --> 00:47:52.480
think the photo that that photo of
General Raimi and du Boy or where they're

609
00:47:52.519 --> 00:47:59.360
holding up the material, which the
Air Force admits he did, he covered

610
00:47:59.400 --> 00:48:04.400
it up that he was showing regular
weather balloon material even though that was not

611
00:48:04.599 --> 00:48:09.360
the material that was retrieved at the
ranch, and the Air Force admits that

612
00:48:09.400 --> 00:48:15.519
in their first explanation. But so
he was covering up something, and even

613
00:48:15.599 --> 00:48:19.480
like you said, they admit they
don't know what for sure, definitively,

614
00:48:20.440 --> 00:48:22.639
but in that photo, I was
just I want to get to the photo

615
00:48:22.719 --> 00:48:28.320
real quick. It's just that that
you know, he's holding this memo and

616
00:48:28.400 --> 00:48:31.519
it seems like you can make out
some words, maybe like disc and maybe

617
00:48:31.679 --> 00:48:37.280
victims of. But those words that
it seems like we can read do not

618
00:48:38.840 --> 00:48:45.039
can work for your theory as well. And I'm hopeful that down the road

619
00:48:45.079 --> 00:48:47.800
we will be able to have some
more technology that we'll be able to decipher

620
00:48:47.920 --> 00:48:52.719
those words and it may then tell
us. And how interesting would it be

621
00:48:52.960 --> 00:48:58.039
if it if it tells us,
it's it's like a fu goo too or

622
00:48:58.079 --> 00:49:01.280
something like that. Well, yeah, what's interesting about that memo For people

623
00:49:01.280 --> 00:49:06.880
who don't know about it, it's
basically it's a general raim. He's holding

624
00:49:06.880 --> 00:49:13.199
this memo in his hand, and
today's dee blurring technology has allowed us to

625
00:49:13.239 --> 00:49:15.599
sort of blow up the image to
where we can actually make some of the

626
00:49:15.639 --> 00:49:20.360
words, and and it really actually
does like in one as if in one

627
00:49:20.400 --> 00:49:22.840
section he says the victims of the
wreck, you know, you can actually

628
00:49:23.119 --> 00:49:25.880
make a good case, that's what
it says. But and I talk about

629
00:49:25.880 --> 00:49:30.519
this in the book as to how
you know, those who believe aliens crashed

630
00:49:30.559 --> 00:49:34.320
will say, you know, that's
the proof victims of the wreck, we

631
00:49:34.400 --> 00:49:37.239
know the aliens. But as I
point out in the book. You know,

632
00:49:37.519 --> 00:49:40.280
I would have thought if this,
if it was a UFO that came

633
00:49:40.320 --> 00:49:45.280
down out of the blue, piloted
by creatures from another world, they would

634
00:49:45.280 --> 00:49:50.440
have said something like the beings in
the wreck, the crew in the wreck,

635
00:49:50.920 --> 00:49:54.039
the pilots, the entities, the
aliens, the spacemen. To me,

636
00:49:54.519 --> 00:50:00.679
using the term victims, that has
like a very human, an almost

637
00:50:00.719 --> 00:50:04.519
like emotional tone in it. You
do know what I mean? Just using

638
00:50:04.559 --> 00:50:07.800
the term victim, it kind of
you know, you don't see very often

639
00:50:08.360 --> 00:50:15.119
references in military documents that have kind
of an emotional aspect to them, but

640
00:50:15.639 --> 00:50:17.039
that to me at least. You
know, other people are going to think

641
00:50:17.039 --> 00:50:21.519
differently, But I honestly do think. You know, as I said,

642
00:50:21.519 --> 00:50:23.920
this thing came out of the blue, strange bodies, nobody knew what they

643
00:50:23.920 --> 00:50:28.760
were. I think they would have
said something like the crew of the beings,

644
00:50:28.800 --> 00:50:31.760
the spacemen. As I said,
the term victim kind of does have

645
00:50:31.920 --> 00:50:37.719
like an emotional, human aspect to
it as far as I you know,

646
00:50:37.760 --> 00:50:40.679
from my perspective at least, Yeah, I agree. And the thing is

647
00:50:40.760 --> 00:50:45.280
is, if you weigh these things, if you say, because I think

648
00:50:45.320 --> 00:50:52.679
it's unlikely that there would be a
project that you know, from the forties

649
00:50:52.719 --> 00:50:57.960
that is still so important that it
remained secret, that they allow these mythologies

650
00:50:58.000 --> 00:51:01.000
to go on with Rswell and they
still won't tell us and maybe even you

651
00:51:01.039 --> 00:51:07.880
know, are even as recent as
the late nineties created disinformation to perpetuate this.

652
00:51:07.239 --> 00:51:12.079
That's a long shot. That's hard
to believe. However, it's also

653
00:51:12.239 --> 00:51:20.039
hard to believe that in advanced extraterrestrial
civilization crashed one of their craft and the

654
00:51:20.079 --> 00:51:24.440
desert. So which is more likely. It's probably I think it wouldn't be

655
00:51:24.480 --> 00:51:30.280
too out there to argue that even
though it's improbable, it's probably still more

656
00:51:30.559 --> 00:51:35.880
likely that it would be a you
know, a secret project that is still

657
00:51:35.920 --> 00:51:42.639
secret, rather than an extraterrestrial space
vehicle. Yeah, and the one thing

658
00:51:42.679 --> 00:51:45.239
that really does that people a lot
of people never think about for the most

659
00:51:45.280 --> 00:51:49.719
part. You know, if we
look at you know, UFO stories,

660
00:51:49.760 --> 00:51:52.719
abductions and things like this, there's
good evidence that, you know, one

661
00:51:52.760 --> 00:51:54.599
thing I would stretch, you know, a full on UFO believer, I'm

662
00:51:54.639 --> 00:51:58.880
just not convinced about Roswell. But
if you look at the history of the

663
00:51:58.960 --> 00:52:05.360
UFO subject, you have reports of
aliens walking through walls, you know,

664
00:52:05.519 --> 00:52:10.519
stopping the launch of missiles and scrambling
missile code words, you know, numbers

665
00:52:10.519 --> 00:52:19.400
in silos, capturing aircraft, kidnapping
pilots. But they couldn't somehow retrieve six

666
00:52:19.519 --> 00:52:22.920
hundred feet worth of weird foil and
a couple of bodies which was sitting out

667
00:52:22.960 --> 00:52:27.760
there for a few days. Yeah, it's kind of like if these extraterrestrials

668
00:52:27.800 --> 00:52:30.960
whatever they are, you know,
because there is a legitimate UFO phenomenon,

669
00:52:30.000 --> 00:52:34.480
there's no doubt about that. If
they can, as we told, walk

670
00:52:34.519 --> 00:52:37.079
through walls, kidnap people, kidnap
planes, et cetera, et cetera,

671
00:52:37.840 --> 00:52:44.039
why would they allow us to allow
that technology and the bodies to fall into

672
00:52:44.079 --> 00:52:46.440
our hands. It would be so
easy if they can perform all those acts.

673
00:52:47.159 --> 00:52:51.519
And this is before the military even
got on the site. They could

674
00:52:51.519 --> 00:52:55.960
easily have just recovered it because history
has shown that they do have incredible skills

675
00:52:57.000 --> 00:53:00.159
whatever is behind the phenomenon, So
that is some that always puzzles me.

676
00:53:00.599 --> 00:53:06.159
And my theory is, well,
the reason why Aliens didn't recover the wreckage

677
00:53:06.760 --> 00:53:09.760
is because Aliens weren't responsible for the
wreckage in the first place, right,

678
00:53:09.880 --> 00:53:15.599
And I feel like if it was
aliens, I agree with you one hundred

679
00:53:15.639 --> 00:53:21.639
percent that they could have retrieved that
if they wanted to. My guess would

680
00:53:21.639 --> 00:53:25.280
be that if it really was Aliens, that they wanted us to have it,

681
00:53:25.360 --> 00:53:30.719
and maybe they wanted us to have
it to see technology and see what

682
00:53:30.760 --> 00:53:35.639
we would do with that. Yeah. But actually one of the interesting theories

683
00:53:35.719 --> 00:53:40.880
the idea of like a staged alien
crash to try and present themselves as vulnerable

684
00:53:42.400 --> 00:53:47.639
and to present us with something that
might kickstart our culture, so to speak,

685
00:53:47.880 --> 00:53:52.840
to another level. You know.
So people have looked at it both

686
00:53:52.840 --> 00:53:55.760
ways, and people will continue to
look at it both ways, you know.

687
00:53:55.840 --> 00:54:00.559
And I'm happy to be the lone
wolf guy who's sort of pursuing the

688
00:54:01.280 --> 00:54:06.719
angle that everybody hates, you know. But I don't mind, you know,

689
00:54:06.760 --> 00:54:09.880
under way, I've got thick skin. I'll argue my position on why

690
00:54:10.159 --> 00:54:14.199
I think I'm right in the same
way that if I sit next to you

691
00:54:14.280 --> 00:54:19.320
know, Kevin on at a conference, pill you know, forcibly present his

692
00:54:19.519 --> 00:54:22.119
arguments as well. And I think
that's that's what uthology should actually be.

693
00:54:22.800 --> 00:54:28.400
There's nothing worse than just kind of, you know, kind of saying the

694
00:54:28.480 --> 00:54:31.880
right thing to the right person because
you want to get on their conference next

695
00:54:31.960 --> 00:54:36.920
year or whatever. Now that to
me, that's not what youuthology is about.

696
00:54:37.159 --> 00:54:43.000
It be about sort of, you
know, sort of just hanging out

697
00:54:43.000 --> 00:54:45.320
with the people who think you can
get further in the subject. Now,

698
00:54:45.360 --> 00:54:49.440
if you've got something you believe in
and put it out there and if people

699
00:54:49.559 --> 00:54:52.519
like it, fine, if people
don't, or that's fine too. You

700
00:54:52.559 --> 00:54:57.679
know, uthology needs to have a
thick skin in terms of debating these kind

701
00:54:57.719 --> 00:55:02.519
of things and not just you know, just sharing cool stories because they're exciting.

702
00:55:02.639 --> 00:55:06.000
You know, we need to get
beyond that. Well. And I

703
00:55:06.000 --> 00:55:10.679
think the best researchers, the researchers
I certainly like to interact with most are

704
00:55:10.719 --> 00:55:15.360
are pretty good that way. They
debate. They certainly hold strong opinions at

705
00:55:15.400 --> 00:55:22.960
some times about things, but at
least they're open to debating. Like Stanton

706
00:55:22.000 --> 00:55:29.119
and I certainly disagree on stef Stam
Friedman when it comes to oswell or other

707
00:55:29.239 --> 00:55:35.239
things. And but he's the type. He's an example of someone who because

708
00:55:35.280 --> 00:55:38.880
he's got some pretty out there ideas, but he will he loves to debate

709
00:55:39.199 --> 00:55:45.639
these ideas, but still remain close
as far as colleagues and everything, and

710
00:55:45.639 --> 00:55:49.280
and I think the best people out
there. And that's why people shouldn't be

711
00:55:49.360 --> 00:55:52.719
afraid to not stand their ground,
because you're gonna get you're going to be

712
00:55:52.760 --> 00:55:58.760
respected. You're going to be respected
by people like us who love new information.

713
00:55:59.440 --> 00:56:02.199
Yeah. Yeah, so you know, I think, let's see where

714
00:56:02.199 --> 00:56:07.239
this story goes. And I'm just
going to keep digging into it and follow

715
00:56:07.280 --> 00:56:12.239
all the threads, all the leads, and we'll see what happens. You

716
00:56:12.280 --> 00:56:14.679
know, maybe be like the rest
of authology, that nothing happens. We

717
00:56:14.800 --> 00:56:17.199
just constant hit a brick wall,
or yeah, you know, maybe I

718
00:56:17.280 --> 00:56:22.639
mean again, it could just be
that it actually comes out by accidents,

719
00:56:22.760 --> 00:56:25.840
you know, not by design,
not by a researcher finding something, not

720
00:56:25.880 --> 00:56:31.239
by the government disclosing. Maybe there's
some old guy who was at Roswell or

721
00:56:31.360 --> 00:56:35.639
one of the other bases where the
material is taken to, who happens to

722
00:56:35.679 --> 00:56:39.920
have seventy five eighty pages of original
documentation that tells part of the story,

723
00:56:40.360 --> 00:56:45.320
you know, and it's prove and
it's forensically analyzed, et cetera, et

724
00:56:45.400 --> 00:56:49.519
cetera, and the conclusion is,
yeah, these are the original files that

725
00:56:49.559 --> 00:56:53.119
could actually happen. I think,
do you think have been going on,

726
00:56:53.159 --> 00:56:57.440
you know, mm hmm. Do
you think the reason that something like this

727
00:56:57.519 --> 00:57:02.280
would be would remain secret is that
me it shows the government or people regarding

728
00:57:02.400 --> 00:57:07.519
working on this as culpable, maybe
even the Division of Foreign Technology who Courso

729
00:57:07.639 --> 00:57:15.159
worked for, was culpable and some
sort of crime or well, yeah,

730
00:57:15.199 --> 00:57:19.199
I mean nobody excuse me, I
have I said directly, you know,

731
00:57:19.360 --> 00:57:22.519
crime, But people said the line
was crossed, you know, with some

732
00:57:22.559 --> 00:57:28.719
of these high altitude balloon experiments and
in some cases allegedly that in some of

733
00:57:28.719 --> 00:57:31.400
these events that went on in New
Mexico in forty seven, which apparently wasn't

734
00:57:31.440 --> 00:57:36.119
just the Roswell event that was the
only one that was found out because that

735
00:57:36.239 --> 00:57:39.199
was the one where the rancher got
there before the military, But reportedly there

736
00:57:39.199 --> 00:57:45.400
were others but where people were used
against their wills, supposedly like prisoners were

737
00:57:45.400 --> 00:57:50.159
taken from state prisons and things like
that. Now, if that's true,

738
00:57:50.880 --> 00:57:53.920
that alone, you know, would
be a reason to hide this. And

739
00:57:53.960 --> 00:57:58.599
if you look back, you know, there have been some very controversial human

740
00:57:58.639 --> 00:58:06.519
experimentation in the past mk Ultra,
the Tungusky experiments, radiation experiments that the

741
00:58:06.519 --> 00:58:12.400
Clinton administration looked into in the early
nineties. So anything like that I think

742
00:58:13.920 --> 00:58:16.800
would be perceived as highly dangerous to
release. But on the other hand,

743
00:58:17.480 --> 00:58:22.199
you know, nothing like that has
ever surfaced shed in relation to Roswell.

744
00:58:22.280 --> 00:58:25.679
So either some of the people tell
me the material was just shredded, burned

745
00:58:25.719 --> 00:58:30.559
and destroyed for fear that it might
come out, or it is sitting in

746
00:58:30.599 --> 00:58:36.679
some dark, dusty archive that maybe
is so well guarded that the people guarding

747
00:58:36.760 --> 00:58:39.280
it today actually don't know what the
guarding. You know, the ideal way

748
00:58:39.320 --> 00:58:44.320
to hide it is just don't tell
the guards what's behind them. So you

749
00:58:44.360 --> 00:58:49.360
know, it's there are reasons that
are viable when it comes to why the

750
00:58:49.559 --> 00:58:53.480
cover up would continue, but also
there are viable reasons why we might not

751
00:58:53.519 --> 00:58:58.199
be told if it was aliens,
you know, So it were kind of

752
00:58:58.440 --> 00:59:01.719
again in that sort of he said, she said, kind of thing,

753
00:59:01.760 --> 00:59:07.000
you know, mm hm. And
you're going to be presenting this in Roswell

754
00:59:07.920 --> 00:59:12.400
the fiftieth anniversary event coming up here
in just a few weeks really at the

755
00:59:12.480 --> 00:59:16.400
end of June. Yeah, and
apparently there's gonna be like a dommy made

756
00:59:16.400 --> 00:59:22.199
and I should be burned in effigy
down the main street of Oh, you

757
00:59:22.239 --> 00:59:29.000
weren't. You weren't about that,
but yeah, joking aside, I'm doing

758
00:59:29.039 --> 00:59:31.400
actually the same lecture, but I
think I'm doing it twice while I'm there,

759
00:59:32.039 --> 00:59:37.039
and and I'll be doing to like
a full PowerPoint presentation showing the various

760
00:59:37.519 --> 00:59:42.440
you know, photographs of these balloons
and some of the documents and the files

761
00:59:42.519 --> 00:59:45.480
and and really sort of you know, start at the beginning and then follow

762
00:59:45.519 --> 00:59:53.199
the threads through that. You know
that from my perspective, sort of confirm

763
00:59:53.320 --> 00:59:58.000
or vindicate at least, you know, the story, even if we don't

764
00:59:58.039 --> 01:00:00.639
have proof. So, you know, it'll be interesting to see what people

765
01:00:01.039 --> 01:00:05.880
have to say, because I mean, when body snatchers came out in two

766
01:00:05.920 --> 01:00:09.920
thousand and five, I actually spoke
at the conference in two thousand and seven

767
01:00:10.000 --> 01:00:15.760
for the sixtieth anniversary, and you
know, there was no I was actually

768
01:00:15.840 --> 01:00:19.800
quite pleasantly surprised. Nobody was sort
of overly critical. They all kind of

769
01:00:19.800 --> 01:00:24.440
sat there and listened. Most people
disagreed, but you know, most people

770
01:00:24.480 --> 01:00:29.039
also thought it was an interesting fear, and they thought it was far more

771
01:00:29.119 --> 01:00:35.159
plausible than the idea of crash test
dummies or chimpanzees or anything like that,

772
01:00:35.800 --> 01:00:37.639
and a few of them did say
to him, said words to the effect

773
01:00:37.679 --> 01:00:42.119
are, well, I still think
it was extraterrestrial, but if it wasn't,

774
01:00:42.760 --> 01:00:49.199
then it was definitely yours. You've
got the runner up. Well,

775
01:00:49.239 --> 01:00:51.960
you know, but my goal is, you know, is just to get

776
01:00:52.000 --> 01:00:55.119
to the heart of what it actually
is. You know, I think I'm

777
01:00:55.119 --> 01:01:00.360
on the right path. But I
say that because I'm honestly enough to say

778
01:01:00.400 --> 01:01:02.719
that a lot of people won't say
I think this. They you know,

779
01:01:02.760 --> 01:01:07.320
they think it's not that they're done
well the way to do it, but

780
01:01:07.360 --> 01:01:09.199
it is the way to do it, you know, if we're going to

781
01:01:09.239 --> 01:01:13.480
be brutally honest with each other as
to what we know versus what we don't

782
01:01:13.519 --> 01:01:19.440
know. Right and now finally for
people, because I know that there's going

783
01:01:19.480 --> 01:01:22.199
to be at least a few listeners
who are going to be going to right

784
01:01:22.239 --> 01:01:27.360
as well. There's three different speaking
venues and you're not You're going to be

785
01:01:27.400 --> 01:01:30.119
in a different one than I am. Do you know where you're going to

786
01:01:30.199 --> 01:01:34.400
be? You know, I've got
totally confused over this. I know it's

787
01:01:34.440 --> 01:01:37.639
going to be it's like in a
mile. Does that mean anything to you?

788
01:01:37.960 --> 01:01:40.079
I think it does because I think
they only have one more, and

789
01:01:40.119 --> 01:01:45.360
that's where they usually have the comic
con, so yeah, it's probably there.

790
01:01:45.440 --> 01:01:47.199
Yeah, that's the one that's where
I did it in two thousand and

791
01:01:47.480 --> 01:01:51.599
seven, So I'll be at that
one. And I said, I'll be

792
01:01:51.639 --> 01:01:55.280
speaking on the book twice, and
I'll be bringing a bunch of copies with

793
01:01:55.320 --> 01:02:00.360
me and for people who might might
want it earlier. The book's already out.

794
01:02:00.880 --> 01:02:05.880
It's called The Roswell UFO Conspiracy.
You can get it off Amazon.

795
01:02:05.920 --> 01:02:09.599
It's already available in both paperback and
kindle. Awesome, Well, thank you

796
01:02:09.719 --> 01:02:15.800
so much for coming back on the
show and sharing information about your book just

797
01:02:15.880 --> 01:02:20.480
in time for Roswell. So people
know where to take their rotten fruit.

798
01:02:21.920 --> 01:02:27.840
Yeah, hopefully not. Yeah,
I don't want my clothes staying with who

799
01:02:27.880 --> 01:02:31.039
knows what. Well, we'll have
to hang out at some point through and

800
01:02:31.599 --> 01:02:35.920
you'll have to come by our venue
and vice versa, and we'll have to

801
01:02:36.000 --> 01:02:38.719
visit everybody, and so that's going
to be a lot of fun. So

802
01:02:38.800 --> 01:02:43.840
come see me and Nick out in
Roswell everybody. Actually, I've got to

803
01:02:43.840 --> 01:02:46.360
go throwing arms, so if anybody
does throw anything, get them back.

804
01:02:46.400 --> 01:02:50.440
So yeah, just catch it.
And throw it right exactly, take you

805
01:02:50.519 --> 01:02:54.639
walk back at him. All right? Thank you so much. I thank

806
01:02:54.880 --> 01:03:01.000
and thank you so much to Nick
Redford for joining us once again on Open

807
01:03:01.000 --> 01:03:06.599
Mind GUFO Radio. Be sure to
check out his book. I know some

808
01:03:06.679 --> 01:03:10.239
of you are kind of going,
uh, what the heck? Uh wasn't

809
01:03:10.320 --> 01:03:16.800
Roswell aliens? Well? Maybe not, I guess, And maybe Nick convinced

810
01:03:16.800 --> 01:03:20.760
you a bit, or maybe you're
on the entry, or maybe you say

811
01:03:20.800 --> 01:03:23.559
on Nick's crazy, there's no way
at uh, that's not it. But

812
01:03:24.360 --> 01:03:28.000
you know, either way, I
think you ought to get the book and

813
01:03:28.159 --> 01:03:34.920
read more about why he believes this
or why he actually is exploring this idea

814
01:03:35.599 --> 01:03:38.480
and why he thinks this may be
a possibility. I think is the more

815
01:03:38.599 --> 01:03:45.480
accurate way to say it. The
book is The Roswell UFO Conspiracy, Exposing

816
01:03:45.639 --> 01:03:51.320
a shocking and sinister secret. And
you can find this at Amazon dot com

817
01:03:51.480 --> 01:03:55.400
or you could go to his website. Nick Ferns are Nick Redferns World of

818
01:03:55.679 --> 01:04:01.440
what ebvs? Actually it's Nick Redferns
World of whatever. But if he was

819
01:04:01.480 --> 01:04:06.079
a younger gentleman, like a younger
like my niece, he probably would have

820
01:04:06.119 --> 01:04:10.000
said, what ebvs? Because that's
kind of what the kids do. Some

821
01:04:10.039 --> 01:04:14.320
of you may be cakes or probably
many of you are older, like uh,

822
01:04:14.400 --> 01:04:16.880
Nick and myself, but so so
you might not be aware of that,

823
01:04:16.920 --> 01:04:20.480
but that's what the kids say,
what evs. So if you know

824
01:04:20.519 --> 01:04:26.199
you're talking to a younger person and
you want to tell them whatever, try

825
01:04:26.199 --> 01:04:29.039
what ebvs. First of all,
they're gonna understand it, and then they're

826
01:04:29.039 --> 01:04:32.480
gonna think you're cool and maybe even
funny, so you'll be able to bond

827
01:04:32.480 --> 01:04:39.400
a little bit there. Anyway,
Yeah, there's that's neither here nor there.

828
01:04:39.840 --> 01:04:43.639
But you can go to Nick redfern
site Nick Redfern's World of Whatever.

829
01:04:43.840 --> 01:04:50.599
Just google Nick Redfern or go to
Nick Redfern fourteen dot blogspot dot com and

830
01:04:50.679 --> 01:04:59.079
Nick Redford fourteen dot blogspot dot com. Fourteen is kind of a study of

831
01:05:00.119 --> 01:05:02.840
different things like paranormal stuff. If
you're not aware of that, that's what

832
01:05:02.920 --> 01:05:05.840
that term is. See, the
older people are going to know what forty

833
01:05:05.880 --> 01:05:10.880
en means even if they don't know
what EV's is. So, you know,

834
01:05:11.480 --> 01:05:15.079
educating the younger and the older so
we can get get along together.

835
01:05:15.559 --> 01:05:17.599
But anyway, yeah, great stuff. I think Nick is always cool.

836
01:05:17.719 --> 01:05:23.559
Nick is always great and everybody loves
Nick, So even if some people get

837
01:05:23.599 --> 01:05:30.239
frustrated with this Roswell theory that he
has kind of been speaking to or writing

838
01:05:30.280 --> 01:05:33.840
about over the years, but you
know, I think it says a lot

839
01:05:33.840 --> 01:05:36.599
for him to be bold enough to
follow up with it, to keep on

840
01:05:36.760 --> 01:05:42.079
it because he thinks there's something actually
there, then just to kind of bend

841
01:05:42.119 --> 01:05:45.679
to pressure and just drop it all. So and Nick is writing stuff like

842
01:05:45.800 --> 01:05:49.440
crazy. Who knows. We may
have him on and another three months to

843
01:05:49.599 --> 01:05:54.199
talk about another book that he's got
out. I'm sure he's working on something.

844
01:05:55.840 --> 01:06:00.920
So thanks again Nick for coming on
the show. As we talked about,

845
01:06:00.960 --> 01:06:02.599
we're both going to be out in
Roswell in just a few weeks,

846
01:06:02.639 --> 01:06:06.400
so I hope you come out and
see us. I'll be speaking at for

847
01:06:06.480 --> 01:06:12.400
the Roswell Daily Record. They're going
to be holding their event at I think

848
01:06:12.440 --> 01:06:16.440
it's called Bob's Steakhouse, but it's
a steakhouse that's where the sally Portian Best

849
01:06:16.440 --> 01:06:20.480
Western used to be. But you
can find this all out by just googling

850
01:06:20.480 --> 01:06:25.559
the Roswell Festival, or if you
go to open mindstat tv and you go

851
01:06:25.639 --> 01:06:30.480
to the events page, you're going
to see more information about that there,

852
01:06:30.559 --> 01:06:32.639
so come see us. You know, it's the seventieth anniversary. I know

853
01:06:32.679 --> 01:06:36.880
some of my friends here in the
Phoenix area that haven't been out there for

854
01:06:38.000 --> 01:06:42.239
years are going to be out there, and you can come visit the newspaper.

855
01:06:42.440 --> 01:06:45.800
If you were at the UFO Congress
in February, you might have seen

856
01:06:45.840 --> 01:06:51.039
the newspaper. The newspaper was there
selling some stuff and promoting the event.

857
01:06:51.199 --> 01:06:55.599
So you can come out and see
those people, and it's going to be

858
01:06:56.239 --> 01:07:01.039
a lot of fun. I know
Race Hobbes of kg are A was sponsoring

859
01:07:01.039 --> 01:07:04.280
that and helping put that together.
So maybe you no Race, you can

860
01:07:04.320 --> 01:07:10.840
come see Race as well. So
it's gonna be fun. Nick Redford speaking

861
01:07:10.840 --> 01:07:14.400
at the mall so and I think
they're having a comic con kind of thing

862
01:07:14.440 --> 01:07:16.840
out there. They usually do during
that period of time. And sometimes there's

863
01:07:16.880 --> 01:07:24.960
some stars there, like we got
to meet Lieutenant Kim of Star Trek Voyager,

864
01:07:25.119 --> 01:07:26.920
so that was a lot of fun. He's a really cool guy.

865
01:07:26.960 --> 01:07:30.880
I can't remember his full name right
now, but a really cool guy.

866
01:07:30.159 --> 01:07:32.960
You could probably find if you look
at the history of my Facebook and the

867
01:07:33.000 --> 01:07:38.440
pictures a selfie with me and him
and some of our friends and stuff.

868
01:07:38.519 --> 01:07:42.079
So always a good time, so
come out and check us out there.

869
01:07:42.599 --> 01:07:45.920
Otherwise, that great news that we
talked about at the top of the show,

870
01:07:45.199 --> 01:07:50.840
you can find that at Openminds dot
tv. So I do have a

871
01:07:50.960 --> 01:07:58.480
link to a story that Lis Spiegel
wrote about the Bigelow talk on sixty minutes,

872
01:07:58.559 --> 01:08:00.039
you know, when you're talking about
UFOs and stuff, So you can

873
01:08:00.079 --> 01:08:02.360
see that, and then I believe
he has a link. If not,

874
01:08:02.440 --> 01:08:06.800
you can definitely find it on our
Facebook of the actual full sixty minutes piece

875
01:08:08.239 --> 01:08:12.840
talking to Bigelow about all of his
aerospace projects, which are really cool,

876
01:08:13.320 --> 01:08:16.840
and you can find tons of stuff
it open Minds to that TV about Bigelow.

877
01:08:17.000 --> 01:08:19.479
I think it's great, you know, like we talked about in a

878
01:08:19.520 --> 01:08:24.520
quote, he said he thinks he's
probably the one who's spent the most in

879
01:08:24.680 --> 01:08:29.640
the private sector regarding UFOs, and
he probably is. I think he's accurate.

880
01:08:29.720 --> 01:08:33.079
He really has backed a lot of
research over the years. For the

881
01:08:33.119 --> 01:08:39.359
past few decades. He was actually
involved with getting Coast to Coast am on

882
01:08:39.479 --> 01:08:44.680
the air, getting it created in
the first place. So yeah, he's

883
01:08:44.720 --> 01:08:46.640
done a lot of stuff for this
field, and I, for one,

884
01:08:46.800 --> 01:08:51.119
am very thankful. Of course,
there are a lot of conspiracy theories about

885
01:08:51.159 --> 01:08:56.960
him, but there are a lot
of conspiracy theories about everyone. There's not

886
01:08:57.039 --> 01:09:00.239
a whole lot about me that I'm
aware of. I know there are a

887
01:09:00.279 --> 01:09:04.479
few, but and and they pop
up here and there, But a lot

888
01:09:04.520 --> 01:09:08.680
of my colleagues have more conspiracy theories. You know what Nick read for.

889
01:09:08.720 --> 01:09:12.800
I don't think there's a lot of
conspiracy theories around him. Certainly there are

890
01:09:12.840 --> 01:09:15.720
about Nick Pope, who we talked
about earlier, who worked for the UK.

891
01:09:16.239 --> 01:09:23.640
So yeah, some well I'm my
friend Ben Hansen. I don't know

892
01:09:23.680 --> 01:09:28.079
if there's any conspiracy theories around him, but we'll start some and because it's

893
01:09:28.119 --> 01:09:32.279
always kind of fun to have that. But yeah, unfortunately Bigelow, there's

894
01:09:32.319 --> 01:09:35.680
lots of conspiracy theories. And he
even talked about how that kind of was

895
01:09:35.840 --> 01:09:39.720
difficult to deal with. He's trying
to help the field, and here's the

896
01:09:39.760 --> 01:09:44.800
field just attacking him and being crazy
about it. So shame on you if

897
01:09:44.800 --> 01:09:50.800
you're out there spread these conspiracy theories
in a malicious manner. So yeah,

898
01:09:50.880 --> 01:09:55.399
I think Bigelow is great. It's
and you know this is evidence of it,

899
01:09:55.600 --> 01:10:01.800
him being brave enough to spend some
time on sixty minutes to continue to

900
01:10:01.880 --> 01:10:08.520
support UFO research and to continue to
stand by his beliefs when it comes to

901
01:10:08.560 --> 01:10:11.960
this sort of thing. I think
that's really important, and from the reaction

902
01:10:12.079 --> 01:10:15.479
that people have had out there,
I think other people feel that way too.

903
01:10:15.880 --> 01:10:19.039
And also, you know, kudos
to Peter Robbins for standing up for

904
01:10:19.399 --> 01:10:24.720
what is right and for truth,
even though he has you know, obviously

905
01:10:24.760 --> 01:10:30.479
invested so much in his book and
in these version of events at the Rundelpshom

906
01:10:30.560 --> 01:10:35.399
Forest. But this is also a
testament to what I've been saying about Peter.

907
01:10:35.520 --> 01:10:40.079
He's a great person. He really
does have a devotion to the truth.

908
01:10:40.359 --> 01:10:44.239
He's not trying to scam or trick
people. He's just trying to figure

909
01:10:44.319 --> 01:10:49.000
things out. And Peter's a wonderful
person. So I'm happy to see him

910
01:10:49.039 --> 01:10:54.479
coming forward, even though i know
it's difficult for him. But you know,

911
01:10:54.520 --> 01:10:58.720
the best thing we can do as
friends and as people concerned to stand

912
01:10:58.760 --> 01:11:02.800
by him and support him, continue
to support him, which I will do.

913
01:11:02.920 --> 01:11:05.800
In fact, some of my good
friends, some of our volunteers at

914
01:11:05.840 --> 01:11:12.600
the UFO Congress, Rob and mary
Anne Don and Mary Anne Rob, We're

915
01:11:12.720 --> 01:11:16.720
out visiting him in New York just
this past weekend. So on their Facebook

916
01:11:16.720 --> 01:11:20.479
they've got some pictures and stuff of
them hanging out with Peter, because he's

917
01:11:20.479 --> 01:11:24.079
a great guy like that. If
you know Peter, even if you barely

918
01:11:24.119 --> 01:11:25.520
know him, you know, you
say, hey, I'm going to be

919
01:11:25.520 --> 01:11:29.039
in New York. I love UFOs. Maybe we can meet and he'll meet

920
01:11:29.039 --> 01:11:33.279
you and you can have some coffee
and then go take the Stanton Island,

921
01:11:33.920 --> 01:11:40.119
you know, very over and see
Statue of Liberty or what have you.

922
01:11:40.159 --> 01:11:43.199
All of the great things to do
in New York with him, and he's

923
01:11:43.239 --> 01:11:45.399
a lot of fun. You'll have
fun and you'll you will learn to love

924
01:11:45.439 --> 01:11:48.600
Peter just like everybody who gets to
spend time with him. He's a great

925
01:11:48.640 --> 01:11:54.840
guy. So that's also some pretty
cool news. Otherwise, there are other

926
01:11:55.000 --> 01:11:59.880
UFO siting stories that were out,
you know today even so go to open

927
01:11:59.880 --> 01:12:05.600
my TV and check that out.
Now when it comes to next week,

928
01:12:06.039 --> 01:12:11.279
I'm going to be in on a
cruise in the ocean and I'm going to

929
01:12:11.319 --> 01:12:15.000
be enjoying it. And as much
as I love every single one of you,

930
01:12:15.439 --> 01:12:20.319
I'm going to try not to think
about you UFOs or aliens. The

931
01:12:20.479 --> 01:12:25.000
entire week. I want to relax. I want to enjoy the beach.

932
01:12:25.119 --> 01:12:29.279
I want to enjoy the ocean.
I'm sorry if that offends you or upsets

933
01:12:29.319 --> 01:12:32.720
you in any way, and you
think I should be UFOs and aliens twenty

934
01:12:32.760 --> 01:12:36.159
four to seven, I practically am
people, So give me a break.

935
01:12:36.199 --> 01:12:40.319
Can I have a break for a
little while. Even on the weekends,

936
01:12:40.359 --> 01:12:43.800
I'm answering emails, I'm taking calls
and it's UFO this and UFO that,

937
01:12:43.920 --> 01:12:46.079
And everybody knows me as UFOs,
so everybody's like, what about UFO this?

938
01:12:46.159 --> 01:12:49.039
What about UFO that? And I'm
like, hey man, I'm more

939
01:12:49.119 --> 01:12:54.840
than just UFOs. So I'm gonna
chill for next week. That means I

940
01:12:54.840 --> 01:12:58.600
won't have a show next week.
However, I should be able to arrange

941
01:12:58.640 --> 01:13:00.319
it. Where as soon as I
can come back, and I'm talking like

942
01:13:00.760 --> 01:13:05.439
my first day back, I'll have
another show for you all to enjoy,

943
01:13:05.520 --> 01:13:11.279
because I know you enjoy the shows, and I am just thrilled and super

944
01:13:11.359 --> 01:13:16.079
happy to put together these shows and
post them online, especially for an audience

945
01:13:16.119 --> 01:13:21.279
who really appreciates it so and I
appreciate you all so much. And you

946
01:13:21.319 --> 01:13:26.760
know who else I appreciate I appreciate
Martin Willis, who shared the news at

947
01:13:26.760 --> 01:13:31.680
the beginning of the show, and
I also appreciate Caleb Hanks, who does

948
01:13:31.720 --> 01:13:35.760
the opening and closed music that I
love so much, and you can read

949
01:13:35.800 --> 01:13:41.880
more about him on the radio page
at open Minds dot tv. So that

950
01:13:42.079 --> 01:13:45.720
is it for our show today.
We'll have another one in a couple of

951
01:13:45.760 --> 01:13:49.039
weeks. Until then, I hope
you all have a wonderful couple of weeks

952
01:13:49.119 --> 01:13:55.159
and start to enjoy your summer.
Luckily, here in Arizona hasn't gotten too

953
01:13:55.239 --> 01:13:58.920
crazy hot. Usually it gets on
the way, so we've been able to

954
01:13:59.079 --> 01:14:02.359
enjoy it. And those of you
in colder areas should be warming up and

955
01:14:02.399 --> 01:14:06.720
getting nice and cozy and warm and
ready to get your flip flops and your

956
01:14:06.720 --> 01:14:11.439
shorts and your t shirts on and
cruise around outside. So I hope you

957
01:14:11.479 --> 01:14:16.119
all are greatly enjoying your May,
and you're soon to be June here and

958
01:14:16.319 --> 01:14:20.159
we will talk to you in a
couple of weeks. Audios mood Tatoes,

959
01:15:06.119 --> 01:15:08.840
your motionless sound