Welcome back everyone to a new episode of You're Wrong with Molly Hemingway and David
Harsani. Just as a reminder, if you'd like to email the show,
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it's amazing. I you know, elections are coming up, things are
heating up, are going to heat up after the new year. This is
a perfect time to help us fight the good fight. Speaking of politics,
Molly, do you want to talk a little bit? I always sort of
dread this, but let's do it. Do you want to talk a little
bit about primary? Well? Yeah, primary politics. It's funny, like
technically, I guess the primary has been going on for more than a year,
but I just don't care that much about it. I didn't feel like
I had the energy to get into it last November or throughout this whole year.
But it's really upon us, and I feel like we need to talk
because the first caucuses will be January fifteenth or so. The thing that makes
it weird this year is that you have on the Democrat side an incumbent obviously
president who has very low approval ratings, and it is very old and his
policies are not going very well in terms of what the country thinks about the
economy. The whole world seems to be on fire, but there's no real
effort to get him out. The Democrat Party is very good about locking it
down. So even though there are people ready and willing to go, including
Gavin Newsom, the governor of California, they're saying that they're not really making
this primary be in any way open or responsive to to what the people want.
And then on the Republican side, you have this weird incumbent non incumbent
front runner in Donald Trump. He basically has all the power of an incumbent,
and not even like an incumbent, almost like a popular incumbent. And
then he's not the incumbent, so he gets to run as an outsider,
which is the thing he's really good at doing. And so he's just crushing
the field right now in polls, both at the state level and nationally.
Yeah, let's talk about Biden first, if he could so. Obviously,
the president has a huge advantage, right, I mean, an incumbent has
just he can use the bully pulpit, he has the you know, he
has the whole White House, he has the whole government behind him. There's
I can't think of that. When was the last time candidate was pushed out?
Johnson would be maybe the last time a sitting president was pushed out well,
and he was he chose not to run again. And I would say
though that historically, anytime you allow a primary in your party for an incumbent,
it is almost always bad for the incumbent. So Pat Buchanan didn't do
that well in the primary, but it was enough to weaken hw when he
ran against him. Yeah, and Buchanan had similar ideas I think about,
certainly the economy as Ross Berro, did, you know what I mean?
So it was like a kind of a weird pot It was very much like
a trump Ist populist pushback to sort of the prevailing elitist Republicans. But also
I guess Ted Kennedy ran against Jimmy Carter in nineteen eighty, right, I
don't really remember or know exactly if that hurt him very much, But I
mean, obviously Ted Kennedy, as much as I like the guy, probably
would have been a more dynamic candidate than Jimmy Carter. But my point is
that, like I've heard this before in my life, I don't you know,
an unpopular president. Let's get rid of him, Let's have someone better
run. But think about what that actually means. That means you're going to
have someone like Newsom. But do you think Kamala Harris is just going to
sit there and let Gavin Newsom take take the mantle there? I mean it
would be it would create a lot of upheaval in a party that already is
running the presidency, right, So why would they do that? Yeah,
they're in a real pickle because their candidate, their current candidate, the incumbent
is politically toxic, as is his vice president. But there's no real good
way out of it at all. And yet the Democrats seem to be not
the worst at getting out of pickles. Like, if you recall back in
early twenty twenty, they had a primary situation where it looks like Bernie Sanders
was very possibly going to get the nomination, and then like sort of within
twenty four hours, it was all taken care of. Everyone who needed to
drop out to drop out dropped out, and everyone who needed to stay in
stayed in, and everything just like and the endorsements came in for Joe Biden,
and nobody could really see who was pulling all the strings. It was
clear like strings, strings were being pulled, but like you couldn't really tell
who was doing it. And then their problem went away and Joe Biden became
the nominee and they ran that campaign from the basement, And doesn't doesn't it
though, seem like that's the competent right thing to do. They did win
the election, right, I mean, Bernie Sanders would have been disastrous for
them for America. And you know, I'm just saying, you know that
that there used to be a pretty somewhat of a balance I think between the
popular will of the party, which is not every voter. People forget this,
it's people are very involved in party politics and the establishment, which has
sort of a bigger view. And you know that's missing now, and I
might as well bring it up now, Like, for instance, you see
the Kochs backing Nikki Haley, so they're obviously against what most people seem to
want right now, you know, I mean, they're picking a candidate who
I keep hearing is having a surge, but I actually don't see that in
any poll or in any kind of in the real world anywhere. So I
don't know where they got that from also kind of confused why they would pick
the most obviously neo conservative candidate running probably on the Republican side, when they're
foreign policies very you know, they have a different view of that or honestly,
they're much more libertarian than she is. So I don't really get that
either. But anyway, so yeah, I don't totally understand either. I
would say I get the general feeling that coke very much once in a no
labels kind of way to move libertarianism in a way that is more palatable to
the left side of the population. That's like a bigger that's not about their
Nikki Haley endorsement per se, but like their bigger goal. They felt like
it had become too tied to the Republican Party and they didn't like the Republican
Party, and so they've worked really hard in sort of like getting in that
space that the left is in, whether it's like the BLM type space or
other things where they tried to reach out to them. They also I think
it was twenty eighteen where they said like Donald Trump is our enemy and we
will do everything we can to destroy him or something, you know like that.
And so they've been pretty committed to stopping him. Now, I find
that weird because while obviously it's not like celebrity popular to support Donald Trump,
when you look at the actual ideas in terms of a realist foreign policy,
a like deregulation approach on taxes, like all the issues that you would sort
of think Coke cared about, he was actually not just good but getting things
done in a good way, his judicial appointments and all that. So I
didn't ever quite understand why they were so emotional in their hatred of him.
But then even in the Republican primary, to go with Nicki Haley, who's
most prominently identified with sort of the Paul Singer donor class neo con type,
you know, wing is interesting. Now. Maybe they think, as do
so many of people on the left, that Ron DeSantis is an authoritarian.
Maybe that's why, or maybe they just think that that's where most of the
donors can be rallied to make a real run at Trump getting the nomination.
I think the latter thing is probably the case, and maybe they were maybe
they've I don't know now I'm thinking like a political donor maybe, but maybe
they think that Nicky Haley can hurt Trump enough where the Santis can do better.
Is that a possibility? No, but I think that there is.
So you said, well, you said that you keep hearing that Nikki Haley
has a surge, but you don't actually see it. I actually I think
people know. I'm not the world's biggest Nicki Haley fan. But I think
she's run a really good campaign. I think she's done a good job with
what she has. She's got the donor class completely unified behind her, She's
got those sort of like establishment conservative media types behind her, and she is
being never Trump without being like a one note never Trump samba, which you
know, Ronda Santis is also running like an anti Trumpist campaign, but that's
all. It's like the only thing you kind of hear from him, or
the only thing you hear from his online amplifiers and so, which is very
like, oh, like, you're trying to win the Republican primary and you're
making your whole case be that you hate the most liked person in the party.
Okay, good luck with that. Whereas Nicki Haley is clearly anti Trump,
but not in a way that that's all she can talk about. I
don't see it like that. I mean I his online people are definitely like
in this battle with Trump fans, and you know, it's all about Trump.
But what I saw DeSantis the other like every day he has some new
idea or whatever, you know, that he's amplifying, like term limits in
Congress or you know whatever. I just I don't feel like I don't feel
like DeSantis is anti Trump in the way that like he's not called him an
authority. He's not like an anti Trump type of rhetoric he's using. He's
opposing Trump in a primary and pointing out Trump's what Trump lacks rather than just
calling him a dictator and stuff, you know what I'm saying, Like,
I don't know. I actually think there are two different issues here. One
is Ronda Santis and his like official campaign, and then the other is the
army that I pray to God our robots, like actual robots and not real
people, because they're so bad at what they do that is tarnishing his brand
and image. But why do you think he's not Why do you think he's
doing so poorly like his when he I don't think anyone could come in with
like higher expectations. People were kind of hungry for him. They liked him,
They had very favorable views of him, and he's just like his favorability
has just been downwards since like January of the of last year or January of
this year, and he just is having trouble gaining traction. Do you think
he'll be able to eke out a win in Iowa somehow or what do you
think is going to happen with him? The first part of that question is,
I have no clue, because, as you well know, I don't
know why the electorate does what it does or why they like the people they
like. I think his people, you know, his online army of dead
eyed zombiel discs are just as bad. I don't understand why people wouldn't turn
to someone like DeSantis now, but they like Trump and is what it is.
And I think once Trump started going after DeSantis, his popularity were you
were you saying Ron de Santis fans online were a dead eyed zombie someone Trump?
I think I might have missed that from you, Okay, Oh,
I don't know. I don't know. I don't I guess, I don't
know. I don't I see them going after each other. Honestly, I
kind of ignore the whole thing because I don't think it's really that important,
you know what I mean in the big picture. I just I feel like
if Trump starts sending out his little email is mocking you know, Ron de
Santis's boots or whatever, then it's going to be bad for Rond de Santis.
There's no way for him to like stand up to that sort of thing.
He is very much, you know, more what's the word, I
don't want to say, wonkish maybe, or just more policy focused, and
it's difficult for him, I think, to be charismatic in the way Trump
can be. And I just think it's going to be always was going to
be tough for him, I should say. I actually thought he'd have more
support, but it was going to be tough to take out Trump. As
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one, eight, ten thirty. So this reporter who follows campaigns was
kind of expressing surprise about how Ron DeSantis was not taking off with the electorate.
And he was telling this story about a company that had a new line
of dog food that they really wanted to push, and the sales were not
great, and so they redoubled their efforts on getting this product to be liked,
and they had all these meetings, and they tried all these advertising,
changing the advertising and changing the distribution model and all the marketing, and the
sales just kept not being good. And finally, this one executive explained to
the CEO, who was very upset that the people or that the dogs just
didn't like the dog food. And that was his story about like what's happening
with Ronda Santis? And I realized that I like Ronda Santis. Like sometimes
people will share with me something that he says and they indicate that they think
he comes off autistic or something, and I'm like, I liked it.
I like that he is able to articulate a concept or a thought in a
way that makes sense and that he's clearly thought about. And I also realize,
like it's not resonating with people. I think that's the dog food analogy
is kind of unfair because he is popular or was in Florida. He basically
helped turn that state red. He's he's he was. You were artistic about
the story. Now, yes, but he's still like twenty points under in
Florida even in the in the primary polling. Yeah. I mean what I'm
saying is I'm saying nobody likes him. It's just Oh, I understand,
But I think if if Trump wasn't running, I think he'd be running away
with this right now. I don't know. I actually think maybe not.
I've been trying to like look at things honestly, and I'm just not I
mean maybe, Listen, I don't know. People are always think that,
like if you're a pundit or whatever I do, I do you have to
like endorse people or take or say whatever. Listen. It's clear. I've
been very clear. I do not think Donald Trump's good for the republic Party.
I think it's going to be a big problem. Not so much Trump
himself, but the trump Ism that other people have adopted does not work.
Donald Trump is a unique individual with a unique talent that someone running for Senate
or governor, does not cannot replicate. That's just you know, and also
just his ideas. But it looks to me like he's going to be the
candidate. He's going to run against Bien, who we just talked about is
toxic. But I have to tell you, Donald Trump is not exactly popular
outside of you know, the core Republican Party either, So it's going to
be a really weird election. And people who look at these polls, and
we've talked about it, where buying you know, where Donald Trump's ahead by
some time quite significantly. That's going to change when Biden starts running and all
that money and everything, and you know, and the Justice Department and others
are going to be campaigning again it's Donald Trump. So I think it's you
know, too early to say that he has the upper hand or anything like
that. But he could win the presidency. I just don't know that for
the Republican Party as a whole. I mean, I know, I think
that it's not going to be very good for them if he's the candidate.
But well, back to your point, back to your point about how people
expect you to endorse, I mean, it's I'm honest and that I'm not
a fan of Nikki Haley. I do like Ron DeSantis. I would still
not endorse one over the other. I just don't think that's my job at
all the issues and and not being like a super fan of Nikki Haley doesn't
mean I hate everything about her. There's a lot I do like about her,
and it's more interesting to me to like talk about the bigger issues than
like you need to endorse someone or not. No, I don't She would
be a massive improvement over Joe Biden. I mean, you know, I
mean you might not think so what I was like. You know, I
think only the only politicians I've ever endored is Javier Malay of congratulations again,
thank you. I think neo cons are very bad for the Republican Party.
I think they're politically toxic. I think that they I think that the establishment
likes it when Republicans carry the warmongering part of the operation that the Democrats also
support. But they can kind of like point to the Republicans and make them
bear the costs politically when the wars turn on popular as they inevitably do after
a few months or whatnot. And so I have concern about the effect of
people like Nikki Hayley on the Republican Party, or you know, a George
W. Bush type or Mint Romney type. But even still, I don't
think it's my job to endorse or not endorse people like that, and I
find it annoying. But I want to say, on the the online armies,
they're all awful. The Trump army has been awful for a very long
time. But there is something that the Ron De Santis army could learn from
the Trump army, which is, don't attack people who are saying good things
about your candidate. Seems like basic thing, like do you remember in twenty
sixteen if you said anything against Donald Trump, that army would come against you
and be like you're the worst person who ever lived. Blah blah blah.
I sure do. But if you said something like I liked what he said
here, they'd be like, you're getting it, You're coming along, We're
going to get you to the other side. Like they were very encouraging with
like the slightest bit of positivity. The Rowndesstanta's army just seems angry all the
time, and I understand that it's got to be a really disappointing thing.
To put your hopes into a politician and have them not perform in the way
that you would like. But they should learn that it's not persuasive to be
angry all the time and like super angry all the time. There's something about
online campaigning that requires a bit of joy or like fun, having fun and
encouragement, and they they seem like it's just sort of like, oh,
I don't know much, but I know I don't want to be with those
people because they're so unbelievably hostile and no, no, I I guess,
so I don't know. Oh, and sometimes when I when I, when
I gently say something like that, people will be like, there are these
major Trump influencers who are awful and you never condemn them. Well, sure,
I agree that there are major Trump influencers who are awful. Absolutely.
What they don't do is come into my social media and yell at me.
Do you know what I'm saying? Like, well, not here, you're
yet kind of I don't know. Yeah, my life is about me.
And when people are being like I'm sorry, I can't stand it when they're
like you're a you're uh. I can't even say the words that they say,
you know, because you're you're unethic, and I used to like you,
but I hate you now and you're the worst scum of the earth.
And it's like, do you find this compelling in any way? Like,
it's so unbelievably awful that I have to focus my mind and remind myself how
much I like Rond de Santis despite his super fans. Here's what grinds my
gears. There's a bunch of people on the Desanta side now who used to
be on the Trump side, And in twenty sixteen, these same people would
attack me constantly, calling me a cock or whatever it is when you don't
agree with them, using basically many of the arguments I'm sorry for saying that
to you, just kidding, using many of the same arguments that I was
using against Trump right now for Rondo Santis, And it's the same exact wording.
But now all of a sudden, you know, Oh, Trump picks
the wrong people, puts the wrong people around him. Yeah, Trump is
not effective. Whatever, he doesn't keep his promises, he changes his opinion
like all all of the like I keep trying to explain to people who call
me a cock or whatever the words they use for this is that I my
main problem with Trump is that he's not conservative enough, Like that is my
main problem with him, not that he you know, tweets poorly, though
I wish she was to control himself a little better. That reminds me of
something, though, David So in twenty sixteen, I felt like the worst
treatment I got, like the really personal stuff that would like at that point
make me cry and my husband would have to comfort me were people who were
never Trump, and I realized at some point that they were so awful to
me because they felt betrayed by me not joining them in their never Trump oblivion.
Like they looked at me as someone they're like, well, she cares
about this, that and the other, so she should be on our side.
And when I was like, I actually don't see the strength of that
argument, you know, like I'm not I'm not joining you in that place
that you are, Bill Crystal, it made those people very very angry,
and like in a very personal and bitter way. I did have that revelation
recently, like probably because people know I like Ron DeSantis as much as I
do, they feel betrayed by me not joining his campaign or endorsing him or
something like that, and so they when you feel betrayed by someone, you
say really awful things to them because you're hurt and you're angry. So that's
probably what's going on. Well, I mean I would try. I was
full blown anti Trump in twenty sixteen. Again, I still don't think he's
going to be a good president, but people would yell at me. So
I'd write about issues and they'd yell at me. Then when we love,
you're going to love the second term, David. Then when I was was
president and your body Javier Malay are going to like have such fun in the
Americas go on, yeah, yeah. But when he was president, I'd
be like, oh, this is pretty good that he did this right.
And then people are like politics is just transactional for you or whatever, and
I'm like, yes, politics is completely transactional for me. I don't.
I wrote this when I was at National Review. I would vote for a
so coopath if they did what I thought was right. I literally I would
vote for a robot if they did the things that I wanted within you know,
the White House. So I don't understand. I can't. That's my
problem. I think we just got to the problem. I can't wrap my
head around why anyone cares what someone's personality is or what they you know,
or how they connect with people or retail politics and how they shake your hands
and kiss your baby. Yeah, I just don't understand it. Oh,
I think actually the problem, I think maybe the even I'll go a step
further. I think I actually like autistic behavior on the campaign trip. I
like it when someone like explains in a robotic voice the reasoning behind their policy.
I'm like, I like it. Do I like it better when they
explain it in a hobby I'm malay voice, Sure, but I don't care.
I actually care about the ideas. And so when people are all about
like who do you want to have a beer with, I'm like, I
want to have a beer with my husband, not with any politicians. So
I don't care about that part. But a lot But you can't deny that
a lot of people do. Do you remember this is a little off topic
when we maybe when we first started the Federalist actually there was the libertarian moment
happening, so I was all on board, right, but I wrote a
column I'm like, I think that we're misreading the signs here because I think
there are certain issues that are like intersect with libertarianism, but people's beliefs behind
it have nothing to do with like individual freedom, right, Like people just
want to smoke pot. There's no libertarian moment here, you know what I'm
saying, Like, yeah, there's no deeper philosophical goods exactly. People are
against the Irat war or whatever, but it's not because they're libertarian. It's
just because it didn't go well or whatever. But so obviously now things have
completely gone in a different direction, both in the Republican Party and certainly in
the Democratic Party and for people like me, who you know, I don't
like the word libertarian, but I use it because it's the only way I
can explain, you know, explain it without going into a long speech.
Is that things are not going my way, and I feel further and further
removed from you know, from the candidates, from from the philosophies and the
policies, and like, you know, I think it's a problem in the
long term, not that they're not libertarian, but that the appeal is so
is getting an arrow or a narrow for each party, and they're losing independence.
I don't even know why I got on that. But so let's take
just one step back. I was coming up. I do not look forward
to all this, but is there any way anyone can take down Trump?
Do you think? Yeah? I kind of. I wanted to go back
to this thing about Nikki Haley how I thought, which is to answer your
question in part how I think she's running a good campaign. I really do.
She is. She has always been kind of politically savvy, and she
is managing to consolidate the never Trump, anti trump Ist forces in the party.
But I feel like she's got a ceiling nationwide of about thirty percent.
That's like if every nationwide, if everything went perfectly for her, and it's
gone well for her, so maybe it could go perfectly, but I just
don't see it going beyond that. She is absolutely ideal candidate for two thousand
to era Republican Party, like, couldn't be better, but we're not in
two thousands, so I just don't see it going well in dictions. What
was that when the Republicans were winning elections nationwide? Well, yeah, but
then with a candidate just like her, but mail, yeah, I'm a
popular governor of Texas, you know who. It's good to remember what happens
immediately after that, though, you know that ushers in an era that is,
or let's say, like the Republican Party had been united on anti Sovietism
for a long time and this was a great way to meld the defense folks
and the social conservatives and the ex economic libertarian types, and they were all
working together on this common enemy. And then there was that period after the
fall of the Soviet Union where there was confusion about where to go, and
you had the Defense group really morph into this interventionist war type approach and basically
squandered the peace dividend that we had from winning the Cold War and doing it
so well. And the result on the party was bad, Like it was
a very bad effect on the Republican Party and put the Republican Party in a
bad place for a while. So yes, So when you say back when
they were quote winning the two thousand election, which was a very close close
thought, No, No, then she would have been ideal were there.
Just to be fair, w was preaching against interventionist war against nation, but
he was against changed the entire dynamic. I should say she would be ideal
in the two thousan two era or whatever post two thousand and one. Okay,
sorry you would, sorry to be pedantic about that. I don't in
Iowa. If I can say something on behalf of Rond de Santis, who's
run otherwise a not great campaign. He's invested on having a ground game there
and visiting every county and working on getting people to support him. The endorsements
he's received from Kim Reynolds and the evangelical guy who's got a bit of a
reputation for pay for play. I forget his name, that vander Platz that
they I think will see if the vander Platz endorsement meant anything. The Kim
Reynolds one didn't seem to. But he's really invested all of his money on
winning Iowa. Now they're moving the goalpost to obviously, we're not going to
win Iowa, or maybe they're maybe they think they still can, and maybe
they I don't know, who knows what happens in caucuses. They're weird.
But it's more like they're trying to re set expectations as we will win second
place, or we'll do it. We'll have a strong showing for second.
The problem is you go straight from Iowa to New Hampshire and in New Hampshire,
Nicky seems to be the strong second place contender, and so it's like
it just kind of keeps going in who's running for second place? And that's
not a very healthy thing for the party. Hey, y'all, this is
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South Carolina next. I always forget where I assume she's going to be strong,
So I don't know if I would assume that do you mean strong or
you don't mean wind, you mean strong. I assume Trump is probably leading
there, but I don't know. I may say her, by the way,
if Trump is winning Florida by twenty points over the very popular Governor DeSantis,
I would have a hard time seeing Nikki doing much better. But okay,
go on, I'm just going to say that one thing Nikki Haley did
have noticed about her is she doesn't actually go after Trump at all, and
that I don't think that that's what makes her popular with never Trumper's and so
on. Obviously, I think she would take a VP not from him,
for sure. I think that I think maybe she's even angling for that right
now in a way, what do you think, interested do you think that
there's a chance that he would tap her? So a few weeks for VPS
the one. Yeah, a few weeks ago I noticed a change in Washington,
d C. A slight change. So in Washington, d C.
The entire Republican Party thinks its job is to prevent Trump and his voters from
having any power. Right. That's kind of like to a lesser or greater
extent. So for ever, since twenty fifteen, the conversation about Trump has
always been like, how do we stop him? Even even if publicly people
pretend that they'd like him, And up until a few weeks ago, it
seemed like the conversation was just constantly like how do we stop him? How
do we stop him? How do we stop him? Even going so far
as to endorse really dangerous ideas like trying to keep him off the ballot or
things like that, like quietly and quietly endorse the things. And a few
weeks ago I noticed that the conversation was starting to turn into like who should
we get into the Trump administration? And that's what I think smart people should
be doing right now is thinking the smart people in the establishment or Republican Party
who don't like Trump, what they should be doing is angling for getting one
of their people in as vice president. That's my way of saying, yes,
I could see him giving the nod to Nikki Hayley that they would work
that way, or just someone else that they would find palatable that they could
work through, much in the way that they worked through Mike Pence. It's
like Donald Trump holds grudges and he takes things very personally if you oppose him,
but also if you turn around and say, actually, Trump's a pretty
good guy, he'll like immediately forgive you and you'll be his best buddy.
So I can see her doing that sort of thing and getting the nod.
I just I assume that Trump fans would be mad about that pick. I
would, oh, I mean, I would feel like it was John Bolton
two point zero. But it might help with I think the VP thing's overrated.
I don't think most people really care, but I think that it might
make some inroads with people. I thought the Mike Pence one was an inspired
choice, and I say that as someone who was on record not liking Mike
Pence in twenty thirteen, twenty fourteen when he messed up the RIFRA situation in
Indiana. But it still was a really good choice. It solved a problem
that was at that moment threatening to keep him from winning. So you that's
why I always view vice presidents. You have like to spend the next four
years with someone that you picked for a for an electoral reason at that moment.
It is interesting because George Bush changed the formula. He'd pick someone who
was never going to run for president, who's going to help him run the
administration. Actually, I think Obama similarly picked Biden thinking he wasn't really a
political threat and that he was bringing some sort of I laugh even saying this,
some sort of gravitas or moderation, moderation, I think, yeah,
But Kamala Harris, Kamala Harris was an identity politics pick. I don't think
Biden really thought that through completely in a sense. But I think for Trump,
he actually needs a person who's very competent who can run help him run
things, rather than someone who just like makes him look more moderate. And
wouldn't it be just great if that was Ron DeSantis. I mean, I
would be so happy, and I don't think that that's going to happen.
It won't happen because one of them would have to leave Florida to get the
electoral votes of Florida. And also because I think that you just said Donald
Trump holds a grudge, and I think other people hold grudges much better than
he holds grudges. They're just quieter about it. Trump I just tells you
what he's thinking, like in his brain. There's like a there's like a
glass window on his forehead and you just get to look right in there.
And other people are more discreet about how much they dislike people who are disloyal.
I just, yeah, disloy so I I yeah. First of all,
I just think for DeSantis, if he loses, which he probably will,
Florida is a better place for him to be where he can accomplish some
stuff and then after next time around he can give it another shot. I
just want to say, I was interviewing for the book on Justice Alito,
and I'm not sure, probably shouldn't, I should save it for the book.
But when George W. Bush nominated Harriet Myers, and it really upset
a lot of people in the conservative movement, and they spoke against it.
That disloyalty was punished in extreme measure. So for instance, like the Roman
Catholics who opposed her were disinvited from from when the Pope came to visit that
year. They were they had been invited, then they were disinvited from getting
to see him at the White House. I mean, they're Disloyalty is something
that a lot of politicians care about. They're just usually much more discreet about
it. The Bush White House, they ran that ship tightly and there was
a lot of a lot of uh punishment meted out, like car roast style
and all of that. But I'm not even I not I'm not saying it
like in a mean way. It's kind of what you do. I think
it's funny when people are like Donald Trump cares about disloyalty. It's like they
all do. They all care deeply, and they take they hold grudges,
and this is a skill that like reporters can exploit or this is a thing
reporters can exploit to get good stuff on you know other people. Remember,
oh, that person also doesn't like Liz Cheney. Let me see what they
know about what's going on or whatever. Well, it's all coming around very
soon. I just don't. I don't see how Trump doesn't win. It
would take him either stepping down, you know, because of legal troubles,
which I don't think he would do. I would, you know. So
I just don't. I don't even understand that argument, Like it seems almost
the opposite. Yeah, it seems to me he would be incentivized to stay
in the race because of those troubles and because many of them, and I
agree with him, I think are connected to politics. Maybe not everything,
but many of those troubles, and and I think that they actually help him,
you know, I think they help him in the primary, and they
may even help him in the in the general. It's going to be awful
the Biden Trump election. I'm just saying this. It's it's going to be
somewhat entertaining. I gotta be honest with you, but it's going to be
it's going to be really just awful. Do you agree? Keep thinking there's
no way it's going to be Biden. So I don't know. I have
a hard time even envisioning the race. I also didn't think it was going
to be Biden in twenty twenty, So clearly I'm very bad at prognosticating who
did you think it was going to be? I just didn't think that someone
that old and that mentally challenged was going to win the nomination. Who was
that out of step with the excitement and base of the Democrat Party. I
didn't necessarily know who it would be. I just didn't think that it was
going to be the eighty year old Joe Biden. He's the luckiest politician who's
ever lived. Ever. He came into office in seventy three or whatever it
was, right on the tail of Watergate. Typically Democrat would't have won that
race. Then this lightweight, ridiculous person just like got you know, befriended
segregationists, befriended whoever you need to need it to get power. Then Obama
picked him because he was the most useless person of it, just like esthetically
the right person for that role. And then he became president in a COVID
year where he could sit in a basement. This is the luckiest human being
I think, who has ever lived. In many ways. Obviously, the
only think I would say it's luck that our corporate media engage in propaganda on
behalf of their preferred candidates. That's not luck. That's just like a system,
systemic problem in our corporate media. But there's a ceiling on that.
I mean, this is Reagan sort of went over the media and Trump went
around the media, and like, you know, I'm just saying, there's
a limit to what they can they can do. I don't think it's luck
that we have a censorship industrial complex that works to control information to favor candidates
and policy issues that they support and destroy those they don't. So Molly,
I'm going to turn our attention to Israel for a minute in a way for
becoming primaries. Chuck Schumer today Wednesday gave a speech on anti semism, and
a lot of it's what you would expect, but he did say, and
I'm rather surprised that he did say that primarily the anti Semitism you see today
in the United States comes from liberal let me quote him, from people that
most liberal Jewish Americans felt previously were their ideological fellow travelers. And I am
not a fan of Chuck Schumer at all. I think he's a pretty horrible
person. But I think it took some bravery to say something like that for
him, the leader of his party in the Senate. What do you think?
I don't know. I don't know enough about Democrat politics to know whether
that was bravery or the opposite. You know, I don't truly know,
But I do think Democrats have a very difficult situation going on in that the
enthusiasm of their party in their base is with these groups that are running their
riots in defense of the Palestinian cause, which in this context is you know,
a pro Hamas, a pro Hamas posture. There you have members of
Congress who are unwilling to condemn Hamas. Did you see the Oakland City Council
passed a resolution or was passing a resolution to call for a ceasefire in Gaza,
which is a very sort of pro Hamas position. But they also wanted
someone on the council wanted to add an amendment to condemn Hamas for the for
the attack on October seventh, And for hours people spoke against that amendment and
said it was racist and awful and how could they say that in this context?
And they were like openly supporting Hamas as the military wing of the Palestinian
resistance and saying they were justified it was horrific. I mean, this is
in the United States of America, in Oakland, and that's what the Democrat
Party is dealing with. It's a very difficult situation. Now. They also
said that, you know, the pictures of dead women and babies were just
invented by Israelis and stuff like that. I mean, they're full blown conspiracy
theories going on. Yeah, I think so, I want to take back
what I just said, though, I actually don't think it's brave to be
I don't know why I even said that. It's just common decency to point
out reality, objective fact, and Chuck Schumer is just doing that. I
think in the context of how dementish politics is and how it, like yes,
messes your brain up and your morality up. That it is an outlier
for him, But it is just common decency. And I point out anti
Semitism if I see it, if it's on my side, and he should
do the same. It should not be a big deal. Oh my gosh,
I have so many thoughts here. First off, I just want to
say, and this might not sound related, but I saw this thing about
how Roslin Carter specifically requested that Milania Trump be at her funeral because she wanted
all living former first ladies to be in attendance if they could. And I
was struck by what you just said. It's just common decency to behave this
way, Like, of course Milania Trump should be there if she's able,
But I was so touched by it, and then I felt weird about being
touched by by Roslin Carter doing something that everybody should do, you know.
And then the other thing is I really hate it when people use anti semitism
of like one group or another for political gain. So if there's an anti
Semite on the right, then you have all these left being like that leftist
being like, oh, anti semitism is this conservative problem, and then vice
versa. It's actually present across political ideologies. It's one of the things that's
so insidious about about about anti Semitism is that it exists in lots of different
places and it should be called out by everyone. And so I do appreciate
that Chuck Schumer is doing it. I'm a little I actually think it should
have been done right at the outset, like some strong pushback. But Democrats
have a very difficult position. There was this tweet from Joe Biden that said
something like Hamas wanted war, so if you give them war, you're giving
Hamas what it wants, or something like that. Did you see that tweet?
Well, it was worse than that. But I do want to just
say that Juctionmers should have said this in twenty eighteen when anti Semites first showed
up in Congress. And I would like to push back on something. I
know that perhaps it's weird that I'm doing this with you, but the less
anti semitism is most much more pernicious because it is inside their party in a
way that it is not inside the Republican Party. I mean, I hate
to break it to everyone, but there are some a few maybe out you
know, backbenchers that say some things here and there that are bad news for
Jews in the Republican side. On the left, you have the entire activist
movement of the left is anti Semitic. There are the entire squad in my
view, except maybe for one of them, is pedals anti semitism. Yeah,
all I mean to say is when you say it like it's only on
the other side and not on that's all I meant. I agree with you,
Like there's there aren't like massive marches of tens of thousands of people on
the right calling for Jews to be killed like you see routinely happening on the
left in major cities across America. Like, no, No, I don't
think any Republican congress person cheered on Charlottesville, where there's a Charlottesville every day
now and they and sometimes the squad shows up to march in it, in
them, you know what I mean. Anyway, the tweet you're talking about
was worse. He said that. Yeah, he which that ridiculous platitude where
if someone declares warn you, if you fight back, you're actually doing what
they want. You know what they want. But he also said that engaging
in terror and violence is not the answer. It's only going to strengthen Hamas
or something like that. Israel's engaging in terror. Terrorism is a specific war
is a word. They're not terror. They're not terror bombing like the Allies
terror Hamburg or whatever they are trying to get rid of Hamas. There's a
big difference between that and terrorism. But it is so NBC News had this
big piece planted by someone in the Biden administration, regurgitated probably word for word
by these reporters that there's a big rift between Obama and Biden over how to
deal with Israel, and that Obama wants him to be tougher, but he's
holding fast and he's not going to be. The day they released this piece,
he called he said Israel was engaged in terror. He's been trying to
stop them from going to kaza from the beginning. He is not as bad
as Obama, but he is. He's not. Do you think Donald Trump
would be doing that? Listen, you know how I feel about Donald Trump.
Donald Trump would say Israel take care of these terrorists. He would not
be trying to limit them in doing the right thing. So I just say,
also, Israel, that's why you're gonna love a second term of Donald
Trump. Well, I gotta love it. But oh sorry, I just
had a thought about Rond DeSantis. Sorry. We had a piece this week
that I thought was really really interesting and well done by just like a lay
person who was saying that Ron de Santis should have run the campaign that Gavin
Newsom is running against Biden, which is to say, not a no vert
campaign, but you are ready to go the moment any opening arises. And
this was based on this writer's belief that there was no way to take down
Donald Trump this year. I think that's also a lot of people's view.
So one of the commenters in the Federalist community, you know, when you
join Federalist Community, you can comment on articles, and I love reading the
comments. But one of the comments was from someone saying, like, yeah,
obviously this is writer or whatever, but like, what should Ron DeSantis
do now? That is a question that I think he should answer about.
He should answer well for his political future. But one thing like when I
think about what I I wish Rohnda Santis would have done, because I really
like him, is have his first very successful term as governor, then have
his second very successful term of governor maybe once you know, if if Trump
were elected, then you can come into the administration at a very high level,
like a very like a like a plumb cabinet position or something, and
then that perfectly positioned you to run after his first term. Yeah, I
just think that would have been good. He could still do that. Let's
say he wants to run next time. What who else is out there right
now? That is more I'm just saying that this thought about Ron Santis and
what he should do now, because I do think he is I don't want
his cause to be for not you know, I like him. He's a
politician though, you know, if it doesn't work out for him anyway.
I just wanted to point out that Joe Biden, Chris Murphy other senators are
pushing Israel back into this two state solution nonsense, which would create a terror
state right on its border. It would have a three front terror state.
Now how mus would be running the West Bank within a year. It is
insane. It is not ro Israel to take that position in any way.
So we'll see where that goes. I don't think it will happen. But
Obama's you know, Obama's influences all over this administration and is clearly influential in
how they speak about it and what they're doing, at least in my view.
All right, let's talk about culture. What have you been enough to?
Have you been back to movies? Reading books? I had a really
weird Thanksgiving in that my husband and kids went to visit his family and I
stayed to work on my book. So I think it's the first time I've
been alone in my house possibly in my entire life, and I don't.
I don't want it to sound bad, but like I've really enjoyed it.
I liked this is this is so maybe this is an appropriate to share.
But I didn't need to go like find toilet paper because there was no toilet
paper on the role because I because people weren't using like obscene amounts of toilet
paper. And like when I cleaned the kitchen, it stayed clean and it
was just quiet and I could think and it was lovely. I'm not saying
I didn't miss them. I did miss them a great deal, but I
was like, oh, this is this is nice? Like I literally never
lived alone. Was there like a Molly Risky business moment? Would you like
put music on it the floor? Now? No? And the only time
I did anything sort of cultural, I guess is like when I was rowing,
I my husband put our old TV in my little gym area and so
I can watch things now while rowing. The bad thing about this is that
I've been listening to pot casts before he did this, which is probably more
useful, but it really does help to have this visual stimulations. You can
watch other things while you're rowing. And I watched a Shane Gillis comedy special.
Oh yeah, I was curious about that. Yeah. I want other
people to watch it and then tell me what they thought. I he's the
guy that got fired off of Saturday Night Live within hours because he had He
was this guy who was expected to be their resident, like token non leftist,
and his comedy had included things that were taken out of context, and
I fired him. But he's I think he's pretty funny. It was a
little raunchy for me. I don't like super I don't like raunchy stuff,
So I just want to warn everybody. It was raunchy in a way that
offended my sensibilities. But there were some funny parts to it, and his
Trump impersonation is fantastic. I saw one joke he made about He said,
if you're fine yourself reading about history, it's on set Republican early on,
and I just want you to know that's early on set Republicanism. He's like,
I'm not there yet, but I know where I'm headed. Mark Boyce
says that when you turn forty as a male, they like issue you World
War two books. You see behind me like, I'm like, these are
all history books. No, I did that. I had told you.
I watched the Sliced Loane thing. I liked it. I liked the Sliced
Loan documentary. And then I've been watching like a sort of weird documentary series
on living to one hundred, a desire I don't actually have, you know,
to like live my life that I can definitely live to one hundred.
And it looks at different communities that have a high rate of centenarians and what
their cultures are like. But it just works for the for the workout,
if that makes sense. Those are called like blue zones or I forget what
they're called. Yeah, yeah, blue zones. So I read a piece
I wish I could remember where I read it that kind of debunks that stuff,
if you're interested. I have a problem with documentaries period in that no
matter what they say, I'm was like, I believe the opposite. I
left that supersized Me documentary and immediately went and got some fries, like and
I'm not a fast food person. And I felt that way about this one.
I was like, this seems like complete pseudoscience and this guy seems like
a huckster. Having said that, I liked just seeing different things about like
how these old Japanese folks are tending their garden and how they crouched down and
get up, and I was thinking about it, even like my parents are
only in their seventies, but they are well. My dad, my dad
is in better health than he has any right to be, like he's almost
died multiple times, and my mom is in stellar health. And they'll they'll
have these things in these documentaries and I'll be like, oh, I wonder
if things are going well for my parents because they garden, they're out in
their yard a lot. They have a multi level home, so they have
to climb stairs a lot just all these things or you know, and they
have good routines and go to church and all that kind of stuff. Anyway,
I already hate my multi level home. Like I look at the stairs
sometimes if I forget something upstairs, I'm like, ah, I wish someone
was up there. I could just yell at them and they throw it down.
But David, when we when we bought our house, like a big
selling point is it's basic. I mean there are multiple multiple levels, but
you don't need to leave one level. And I was like, I am
already in the house. I can I can age age in. When Mark
leaves me or to death. Sorry, that sounded bad. Leaves me like
Mark will die before I do because he's a man, right, And then
I'll just get a little dog and I'll live on my one level here in
this house. I thought it was it. Oh, I hate to quote
Bill Cosby but didn't say that men die first because they want to. But
yeah, I I thank you for thank you for making my marriage sound awful.
That's fine. I'm going to die first, for sure. I wanted
to say, like, you know how you exercise inside with the TV.
It's very difficult for me to exercise inside. I noticed, like I can't
get myself to do it this way, I write, I took a bike
riding outside where I just get to see the world, to get out of
my house see the world a little bit. So, yeah, I can't
exercise inside. Maybe I need to watch TV. Maybe I need to put
a TV. At first I need to buy exercise equipment. Then I need
to get a TV. I did. Yeah, I did nothing culturally at
all. I've been working on a book myself. I do watch sports,
and when you watch sports, you get to see commercials. And can I
tell you, have you seen this ad with Adam Driver. Do you know
what I'm talking about? I know who Adam Driver is, but I have
not seen the ad. There are three kinds of ads on TV. I
don't know you stream stuff, so you probably don't see ads, but there
are three ads. You can buy luxury cars, you can buy perfumes,
or you can buy pharmaceuticals that may may help you or they may possibly kill
you. That's what I get from these commercials. It is an ad with
Adam Driver and he's running next to a horse really fast, and then he's
swimming with a horse and then he turns into what is it called? Is
it a Senatar centaur? There's a horse man, Yeah, and he's a
centaur in it. You So you have to look this commercial up at some
point. Okay, I don't know. I'm sharing this with everyone, but
that is my cultural intake. What what about that? Was it good?
Bad? It's amazing? I laughed. I laughed more every time I see
it. I shared it online. I wanted other people to participate in enjoying
it, but they do not. There's so many of these. There's one
with like they've had on for years, with Johnny Depp and he's playing guitar
like wild Thing or whatever Dior and then they have like other celebrities doing these
commercials, like Natalie Portman is like has a pickup truck filled with flowers.
It's you know, okay, that's how I say. It reminds me of
Zoolander. It's like watching the Zoolander but dumber, but more over the top
than Merman. You know what I mean. I'll have to check it out
because I was in Greece this summer and I went to Athens and we got
to see a lot of centaur art and I'm just kind of curious. Oh
yeah, yeah, I'm gonna send your picture. It is amazing. Okay.
Yeah, I really had nothing to say. That's all I could come
up with, so but I have to But I did enjoy it. I
was watching a show called New Girl. Have you ever watched that show?
It's like a sitcom. Yeah, it's basically just like I think. I
think. Yeah, it's Zoe Deschanel. Yeah, who is married or dating
one of those brothers who like remakes the houses do what I'm talking about?
She is? Yeah, the twins really? Yeah, do you know their
names because I don't Scott brothers, Yes, the Property brothers. Property Brothers.
One time, one of the Property Brothers like a peace of mind.
Remember when I wrote about redoing your house years ago it almost ruined your marriage
exactly, and he liked the piece. Is she she's with the guy that
divorced then? By the way, I guess Property Brothers ruined his marriage?
Hey, O, No, I think it's the other one, but I'm
not sure. One of them is kind of a little more masculine than the
others. I fair to say. I think she's with the last masculine one,
but I'm not sure. So I thought she was married to that Death
Cab for Q. She was. She was, she was, isn't it?
So whenever I watch a show, immediately go to Wikipedia and read everything
about all the people in the show. So, yes, she was married.
I pretend I don't know, But Zohanell is married to the guy from
Death Cabin for Quti for Cutie. She has a sister who's on a show
Bones or one of those shows I forget. Yeah, yeah, all right,
this is ridiculous. It's okay, stop, just mind everyone. If
you would like to email the show give us better cultural suggestions that we're watching
now, it can do so at radio at the Federalist dot com. Do
I have anything else to say? I don't know. I was like,
wait, my supposed to do? I do want to actually, I do
want to say that before we recorded this podcast, we had like a forty
minute discussion about Pat Buchanan, and David thought that we should have done it.
We should have recorded it. I'm not sure. No, it would
have gone in a lot of trouble. What I said was that that kind
of conversation would make this a big I mean, not that we don't have
a lot of listeners already, but we would be massive if we could have
those kind of discussions on here where we're yelling at each other where I was
yelling a lot. But yeah, yeah, we should do like a we
should do a you're wrong after dark or something you know you're wrong uncensored.
I think I should just be allowed to curse and then we should just beep
it out. You did you used to word? I was just thinking because
my oldest daughter knows started listening to this, and I'm like, oh,
I'll have to explain to her what that really the word is? What not
the C word? I didn't never would use that word. Set saying oh,
they say crap or something that's not a bad word. All right,
you can't say it. I'm not going to say it, but all right.
Anyway, Well, I'll find better ways to say bad words in the
future, and I hope you'll join us. Until then, be lovers of
freedom and anxious with the friend