WEBVTT 1 00:00:29.199 --> 00:00:33.880 Welcome back to The Pathwent Chili. I'm Robin, I'm Jules, and I'm 2 00:00:33.960 --> 00:00:39.320 Ashley. Let's dive right into this week's case. June twenty third, nineteen 3 00:00:39.399 --> 00:00:45.119 ninety seven, San Francisco, California. After completing her shift at a coffee 4 00:00:45.119 --> 00:00:50.719 shop at the Crocker Galleria, eighteen year old Christian Motifery vanishes without a trace, 5 00:00:51.640 --> 00:00:56.479 even though coworkers report seeing Christian with a blonde woman, she's never identified, 6 00:00:57.079 --> 00:01:00.280 and bloodhounds track Christians sent to the edge of the Pacific Ocean at Land's 7 00:01:00.399 --> 00:01:04.879 End, over six miles away. Weeks later, a man named John o'numa 8 00:01:04.879 --> 00:01:10.359 phones in a fake tip in which he falsely accuses two women of murdering Kristin. 9 00:01:11.120 --> 00:01:15.680 But even though Numa does a number of suspicious things and multiple women accuse 10 00:01:15.760 --> 00:01:21.680 him of abuse, no conclusive evidence ties him to Christian's disappearance. After that, 11 00:01:22.000 --> 00:01:26.519 the Path Went Chile. So today we're going to be covering an unsolved 12 00:01:26.519 --> 00:01:32.159 case involving a missing university student, the nineteen ninety seven disappearance of Kristin Modafery. 13 00:01:32.959 --> 00:01:36.799 At the time of her disappearance, Kristin Modaferi was a student at North 14 00:01:36.840 --> 00:01:41.799 Carolina State University, but decided to relocate to the San Francisco Bay area for 15 00:01:41.840 --> 00:01:46.359 the summer in order to take some classes at the University of California, Berkeley. 16 00:01:46.840 --> 00:01:49.159 She got herself a job at a mall coffee shop, but went missing 17 00:01:49.280 --> 00:01:53.000 after leaving at the end of her ship one afternoon, though some of Kristen's 18 00:01:53.000 --> 00:01:57.879 co workers would report seeing her in the company of an unidentified blonde woman. 19 00:01:57.840 --> 00:02:01.400 The case would take an una expected turn weeks later, when a man named 20 00:02:01.480 --> 00:02:07.199 John O'numa phoned in an anonymous tip, falsely implicating two women in Kristen's disappearance. 21 00:02:08.120 --> 00:02:10.919 While he attempted to write off the whole thing as a stupid prank, 22 00:02:12.439 --> 00:02:16.000 suspicion mounted that Onuma might have been personally involved in what happened to Kristin, 23 00:02:16.560 --> 00:02:22.360 particularly since there were numerous women who accused Onuma of abuse, and he would 24 00:02:22.360 --> 00:02:25.919 reportedly use other women in order to lure his victims to him. But no 25 00:02:25.960 --> 00:02:30.759 conclusive evidence has ever implicated Onuma, and this is one of those frustrating cold 26 00:02:30.800 --> 00:02:35.199 cases in which there are a lot of different pieces of the puzzle, but 27 00:02:35.280 --> 00:02:38.840 they just don't quite fit together. Some of the information you'll hear today was 28 00:02:38.879 --> 00:02:44.360 sourced from the website find Kristin dot com, which is run by a man 29 00:02:44.479 --> 00:02:47.599 named Dennis Mann, who lived in Kristin's hometown of Charlotte at the time she 30 00:02:47.680 --> 00:02:53.159 went missing before he volunteered to assist with the search effort, and he remains 31 00:02:53.159 --> 00:02:58.400 a major advocate for twenty seven years later. Mann also released his own multi 32 00:02:58.439 --> 00:03:02.599 episode podcasts about this taste titled Fine Kristen, and has made every effort to 33 00:03:02.599 --> 00:03:07.800 piece together what happened to her, but we still don't have any definitive answers. 34 00:03:07.439 --> 00:03:12.199 This is what's so horrifying about this case. It's a young eighteen year 35 00:03:12.240 --> 00:03:16.280 old who's enrolled in college and she's so ambitious over in North Carolina. She 36 00:03:16.400 --> 00:03:21.360 wants to go to Berkeley for the summer and take some more courses, and 37 00:03:21.400 --> 00:03:24.039 in order to accomplish that, she gets this job at the mall. So 38 00:03:24.080 --> 00:03:29.520 she's seen with a woman at her coffee shop before she leaves for the night, 39 00:03:30.080 --> 00:03:32.280 and then all of a sudden, there's this phone call by a man 40 00:03:32.360 --> 00:03:37.520 who kind of shifts the investigation. As you're describing it, I thought, 41 00:03:37.560 --> 00:03:39.919 well, wait a minute, her coworkers described her being with this woman. 42 00:03:40.400 --> 00:03:45.319 Then you have John who's calling in this tip that ends up causing a big 43 00:03:45.360 --> 00:03:49.199 stir in the investigation. But then, Robin, you just said he actually 44 00:03:49.280 --> 00:03:53.719 used other women to help lure abuse victims to him, And my heart just 45 00:03:53.840 --> 00:04:00.319 sank because even if this blonde woman she was sided with was someone involved, 46 00:04:00.879 --> 00:04:05.360 John could still be the main perpetrator in the case. Or it's very possible 47 00:04:05.400 --> 00:04:10.439 the woman could be unrelated to the case, or the woman acted alone. 48 00:04:10.560 --> 00:04:15.680 So it opens up a whole host of possible answers of was this woman even 49 00:04:15.719 --> 00:04:19.199 involved and was she actually working for John? Yeah, there are so many 50 00:04:19.199 --> 00:04:23.920 possibilities here because, as we're going to talk about, John Ouma did have 51 00:04:24.000 --> 00:04:28.160 a girlfriend at that time who may know more than she's letting on. But 52 00:04:28.360 --> 00:04:31.480 this woman was not a blonde, but of course that doesn't preclude the possibility 53 00:04:31.519 --> 00:04:36.720 of her being in disguise or possibly wearing a blonde wig. So opinions aren't 54 00:04:36.720 --> 00:04:43.120 divided. Some people think that John Onuma is guilty and cause Kristen's disappearance, 55 00:04:43.480 --> 00:04:46.759 but at the other hand, he may just be like a prick who decided 56 00:04:46.800 --> 00:04:50.839 to phone in a false tip and completely complicated the investigation so that the focus 57 00:04:50.879 --> 00:04:55.279 has never left him. So there is just no real evidence pointing to any 58 00:04:55.439 --> 00:04:59.720 one conclusion. All we know for certain is that Kristen is gone and is 59 00:04:59.759 --> 00:05:03.360 not and found for twenty seven years. It speaks volumes for her character that 60 00:05:03.439 --> 00:05:08.360 she has someone back home who says, you know, twenty some odd years 61 00:05:08.399 --> 00:05:12.120 later, I'm still fighting for justice for her, that she was that important, 62 00:05:12.519 --> 00:05:15.120 that she was that loved, and that it was so important to that 63 00:05:15.160 --> 00:05:18.040 community to say, we have to have answers for someone who's one of ours. 64 00:05:18.279 --> 00:05:21.399 Even though she was in California at the time, what happened to her, 65 00:05:21.519 --> 00:05:30.040 one of our children went missing. Our story begins in California in nineteen 66 00:05:30.120 --> 00:05:34.600 ninety seven, and our central figure is eighteen year old Kristin Motiferi. Originally 67 00:05:34.639 --> 00:05:40.600 born in Danbury, Connecticut, to parents Bob and Debbie Modiferi. Kristin was 68 00:05:40.639 --> 00:05:44.519 the second of their four daughters, and the family would relocate to Charlotte, 69 00:05:44.560 --> 00:05:49.879 North Carolina. After receiving a four year scholarship to North Carolina State University and 70 00:05:49.959 --> 00:05:56.040 completing her freshman year as an industrial design major, Kristin decided to make a 71 00:05:56.079 --> 00:06:00.040 temporary move to the San Francisco Bay Area in order to take a summer photography 72 00:06:00.079 --> 00:06:04.879 course at the University of California, Berkeley, which would count towards her credits 73 00:06:04.879 --> 00:06:10.399 at NC State. She is the Internet to find a rented room at a 74 00:06:10.439 --> 00:06:15.959 Victorian house located on Jane Avenue in Oakland, which she would share with four 75 00:06:15.000 --> 00:06:20.439 male roommates, and Kristin officially arrived and moved in on June first, which 76 00:06:20.480 --> 00:06:26.279 happened to be her eighteenth birthday. In order to support herself, Kristin found 77 00:06:26.279 --> 00:06:30.720 a job working the morning shift at Spinelli's coffee shop in the Crocker Galleria mall, 78 00:06:30.040 --> 00:06:34.839 located in San Francisco's Financial District, and she was also planning to work 79 00:06:34.920 --> 00:06:40.240 part time on weekends in a coffee shop at the San Francisco Museum of Modern 80 00:06:40.319 --> 00:06:44.439 Art. At around three p m. On the afternoon of June twenty third, 81 00:06:44.920 --> 00:06:48.600 the day before her photography course was scheduled to start, Kristin completed her 82 00:06:48.600 --> 00:06:54.480 shift at Spinelle's and asked her co workers for recommendations of places to visit, 83 00:06:55.439 --> 00:07:00.399 even though she said she'd already been there. Kristin briefly mentioned the possibility of 84 00:07:00.439 --> 00:07:04.480 traveling to Ocean Beach, located in lands End Park next to the Pacific Ocean 85 00:07:05.360 --> 00:07:10.759 but after leaving Spinelle's, Kristin never returned to her residence in Oakland that night 86 00:07:11.240 --> 00:07:15.639 and was not heard from again. She did not attend her first photography class 87 00:07:15.639 --> 00:07:19.519 at Berkeley the following morning, and never returned to Spinelle's, even though she 88 00:07:19.639 --> 00:07:25.920 left behind an unclaimed four hundred dollars paycheck. Based on her character, it's 89 00:07:25.959 --> 00:07:30.160 pretty clear that this was not a voluntary exit because she had just planned too 90 00:07:30.240 --> 00:07:32.759 much. She had worked too hard to try to get out to California. 91 00:07:33.040 --> 00:07:38.439 She had these jobs arranged, and she's about to start courses, which seems 92 00:07:38.480 --> 00:07:42.959 to be her priority right now in life, to get that industrial design degree, 93 00:07:43.279 --> 00:07:47.720 to make sure she's financing her whole dream out in California. In my 94 00:07:47.839 --> 00:07:51.480 heart, I want to know, I'm assuming the roommates were all ruled out. 95 00:07:51.560 --> 00:07:56.720 To have an eighteen year old little girl from North Carolina fly cross country 96 00:07:56.879 --> 00:08:00.120 and live in a home with four guys that she didn't really know. How 97 00:08:00.839 --> 00:08:03.560 were they ruled out pretty quickly? Yeah, we're going to talk more about 98 00:08:03.560 --> 00:08:07.439 the roommates as we go along, but they have never been considered to be 99 00:08:07.560 --> 00:08:11.839 suspects, And it might seem unusual that like an eighteen year old girl who 100 00:08:11.879 --> 00:08:15.199 was away from home for the first time, would move in with four other 101 00:08:15.319 --> 00:08:18.800 guys that she didn't even know, but by the sounds of it, because 102 00:08:18.920 --> 00:08:22.920 Christian was so active and was would go get up early to go to work 103 00:08:22.959 --> 00:08:26.120 and spent a lot of time sight seeing in San Francisco, these roommates really 104 00:08:26.120 --> 00:08:30.319 didn't see her all that often because she would come home late at night and 105 00:08:30.360 --> 00:08:33.600 then wake up next morning to do it all over again. So they didn't 106 00:08:33.600 --> 00:08:37.840 really cross pass all that much. But there has never been any red flags 107 00:08:37.840 --> 00:08:41.399 to indicate that they were involved in Kristen's disappearance. Good it doesn't seem like 108 00:08:41.399 --> 00:08:43.799 she even got home that night, because from the sounds of it, she 109 00:08:43.919 --> 00:08:48.399 had plans to, like you said, be sight seeing and to go out 110 00:08:48.399 --> 00:08:50.639 and about. She seems like one of those kids that once she started school, 111 00:08:50.679 --> 00:08:54.039 she'd be at the library anyway, hanging out, you know, doing 112 00:08:54.080 --> 00:08:58.200 her schoolwork and making sure the investment she made to make that trip to California 113 00:08:58.240 --> 00:09:01.600 actually paid off. So just make sure they were all ruled out in case 114 00:09:01.679 --> 00:09:07.480 there had been a problem at home. Silly question, what exactly is industrial 115 00:09:07.519 --> 00:09:13.679 design? Let me look, Yeah, I'm not even sure either, Okay, 116 00:09:13.720 --> 00:09:16.720 I'm glad I'm not the only one. I was thinking an interior design, 117 00:09:16.840 --> 00:09:18.279 but me too. And then I'm like, what does she design the 118 00:09:18.320 --> 00:09:24.639 interiors of industrial buildings? Because an architect would. Let's see it says, 119 00:09:24.720 --> 00:09:30.399 an industrial designer actually develops concepts for manufactured goods such as cars, home appliances, 120 00:09:30.440 --> 00:09:33.639 and toys. So they combine art, business, and engineering to make 121 00:09:33.679 --> 00:09:39.600 everyday products for everyday use. Very cool, Very cool. I got a 122 00:09:39.639 --> 00:09:45.039 toy designer. How fun would that be? So none of Kristen's roommates became 123 00:09:45.120 --> 00:09:48.279 concerned enough to reporter missing, as they figured she was probably staying with someone, 124 00:09:48.679 --> 00:09:52.000 but her father, Bob, left a voicemail at the residence. When 125 00:09:52.039 --> 00:09:56.720 one of the roommates returned Bob's call and informed him that no one had seen 126 00:09:56.840 --> 00:10:00.000 or heard from Kristen in three days, Bob and his wife, Debbie, 127 00:10:00.240 --> 00:10:05.080 hopped on the first available flight to San Francisco, and Christian's roommates finally reported 128 00:10:05.080 --> 00:10:09.000 her missing to the Oakland Police Department. By the time police launched an investigation, 129 00:10:09.480 --> 00:10:13.639 one week had passed since Kristen's disappearance, but the Mada Fairies remained in 130 00:10:13.639 --> 00:10:18.919 the Bay Area performing their own search for their daughter, handing out missing persons 131 00:10:18.919 --> 00:10:24.320 flyers, and hiring the services of a private investigator. An intriguing lead was 132 00:10:24.360 --> 00:10:28.440 provided by two of Kristen's co workers, who reported seeing her with a young 133 00:10:28.519 --> 00:10:33.440 blond woman on the second floor of the Crocker Galleria about forty five minutes after 134 00:10:33.480 --> 00:10:37.759 her final shift at Spinelli's ended. According to those who worked with her, 135 00:10:37.080 --> 00:10:41.960 it was uncharacteristic for Kristin to hang around the mall for a long period of 136 00:10:41.000 --> 00:10:46.000 time following her shifts, as she had spent the previous three weeks leaving as 137 00:10:46.080 --> 00:10:50.960 quickly as possible in order to explore the city. Even though a public plea 138 00:10:50.080 --> 00:10:54.679 was sent out for this blond woman to come forward, she never did and 139 00:10:54.799 --> 00:10:58.720 she could not be identified. I can tell kind of the dynamic just from 140 00:10:58.720 --> 00:11:03.799 the description you gave of the roommates with the parents. How incredible that these 141 00:11:03.840 --> 00:11:07.480 are guys that live with her. She's only been there a couple of weeks, 142 00:11:07.799 --> 00:11:09.679 and when the parents are calling to check on her, one of the 143 00:11:09.759 --> 00:11:16.120 roommates has the decency responsibility to call mom and dad back and instantly can tell 144 00:11:16.159 --> 00:11:20.080 how serious this is because they're thinking, eighteen year old girl, we don't 145 00:11:20.080 --> 00:11:24.639 see her a lot. She's eighteen out at college, like she's probably hanging 146 00:11:24.679 --> 00:11:28.320 out with people and doing her own thing. But as soon as her parents 147 00:11:28.360 --> 00:11:33.720 voiced something's wrong and that they're boarding a flight to get out to San Francisco 148 00:11:33.799 --> 00:11:37.159 to check on her, they go into action as well to help mom and 149 00:11:37.240 --> 00:11:39.960 dad. So it sounds like they report her missing while mom and dad are 150 00:11:39.960 --> 00:11:43.480 on their way, and it's the police who drag their feet a couple of 151 00:11:43.559 --> 00:11:48.360 days. I'm assuming that's because she's eighteen, right, and there's no sign 152 00:11:48.519 --> 00:11:54.399 quote end quote that something wrong had happened to her. Oh yeah, we're 153 00:11:54.399 --> 00:11:56.080 going to talk about this. But this was caused a lot of red tape 154 00:11:56.080 --> 00:12:01.840 because Kristin legally became an adult only weeks before she went missing. That's when 155 00:12:01.879 --> 00:12:05.600 she turned eighteen, So of course there's still feelings that she's an adult. 156 00:12:05.639 --> 00:12:09.879 She could take off if she wanted to, so she didn't get the same 157 00:12:09.039 --> 00:12:13.960 urgency as if she was a kid or a teenager who had gone missing. 158 00:12:13.639 --> 00:12:16.960 But yeah, some people have been suspicious of the roommates for not reporting her 159 00:12:18.000 --> 00:12:22.200 missing immediately, but they operated on different schedules, like they would go in 160 00:12:22.279 --> 00:12:24.440 and out of the house, they would barely see Kristin. So as far 161 00:12:24.480 --> 00:12:28.799 as they know, there's nothing suspicious about the fact that they hadn't seen her 162 00:12:28.840 --> 00:12:31.559 because they're not aware that she isn't showing up for her shifts at work or 163 00:12:31.600 --> 00:12:35.600 her classes at college. And like you said, once they found out from 164 00:12:35.720 --> 00:12:39.320 once they heard from her father and found out that they hadn't heard from Kristin, 165 00:12:39.440 --> 00:12:43.960 that's when they realized, okay, something is wrong and they finally took 166 00:12:43.039 --> 00:12:48.360 action. I think it'd be very different had you said their arrangement was like, 167 00:12:48.399 --> 00:12:52.279 hey, Wednesday night's game nights with roommates or Thursday night we all cooked 168 00:12:52.279 --> 00:12:54.759 together and she just didn't bother to show up, but we didn't pay any 169 00:12:54.759 --> 00:12:58.399 attention to it. Or she always called and checked in on her way back 170 00:12:58.440 --> 00:13:01.879 to tell us you'll leave the door online, and she didn't call. They 171 00:13:01.879 --> 00:13:05.559 didn't have that dynamic. This was a living situation that was convenient for all 172 00:13:05.639 --> 00:13:11.000 of them. And so after hearing what you said, I think they acted 173 00:13:11.120 --> 00:13:16.000 absolutely appropriately. There's nothing to worry about until mom and dad say, guys, 174 00:13:16.000 --> 00:13:16.879 this is out of her behavior, and they say, tell us what 175 00:13:16.919 --> 00:13:20.120 to do, And it sounds like they went straight into action to help the 176 00:13:20.200 --> 00:13:26.879 parent. It's so it's such a perilous situation when you have a missing person 177 00:13:26.519 --> 00:13:31.600 and you aren't necessarily close with roommates in the sense that, like you said, 178 00:13:31.639 --> 00:13:35.799 you're seeing them every day, or you have these routines that you're sticking 179 00:13:35.840 --> 00:13:39.600 to. You're like ships passing in the night. So we've seen cases where 180 00:13:39.679 --> 00:13:46.120 people were deceased murdered in their apartment, like in their room, and their 181 00:13:46.159 --> 00:13:50.720 roommates were just going about their business and they didn't discover them for a great 182 00:13:50.759 --> 00:13:54.879 amount of time later, or that they were missing, and it took days 183 00:13:54.919 --> 00:13:56.840 to actually figure that out, for everyone to come together and be like, 184 00:13:58.200 --> 00:14:03.360 oh, because it's not just Kristin likely in the situation who's passing. These 185 00:14:03.519 --> 00:14:07.000 four other guys are likely working, going to school, doing all of the 186 00:14:07.039 --> 00:14:11.360 things, and so it's going to take all of them coming together to go 187 00:14:11.480 --> 00:14:13.919 like, dude, when did you last see Kristen And then they all figure 188 00:14:13.919 --> 00:14:18.559 out that this is a problem. So it's fortunate that they actually got together 189 00:14:18.679 --> 00:14:24.120 and were able to provide her parents with that information because Debbie and Bob I 190 00:14:24.240 --> 00:14:28.240 feel for them. They probably were really scared having Kristin leave home live with 191 00:14:28.279 --> 00:14:31.320 all of these guys, and they're worried about the things that could happen to 192 00:14:31.360 --> 00:14:37.759 her. And then before she can even start this photography course, she goes 193 00:14:37.840 --> 00:14:43.879 missing. It's just so heartbreaking. Investigators decided to use a police bloodhound who 194 00:14:43.919 --> 00:14:48.879 picked up Christen sent from a pillowcase at her residence and later wound up tracking 195 00:14:48.919 --> 00:14:54.519 the scent from Spinelli's to the number thirty eight bus stop on Geary Street, 196 00:14:54.519 --> 00:14:58.440 located just a few blocks away from the Galleria. Now, this particular bus 197 00:14:58.519 --> 00:15:03.960 route t west and ended at Sutro Heights Park, located at Land's End, 198 00:15:05.080 --> 00:15:09.200 over six miles away, and when Kristin had mentioned the possibility of traveling to 199 00:15:09.279 --> 00:15:15.840 Land's End and revisiting Ocean Beach following her shift, her coworkers told her that 200 00:15:15.879 --> 00:15:18.879 the quickest way to get there was taking the number thirty eight bus on Geary 201 00:15:18.960 --> 00:15:24.200 Street. This prompted police to drive the bloodhound a Land's End and it picked 202 00:15:24.279 --> 00:15:30.519 up Christian scent beneath the Cliff House, a historic restaurant located near Ocean Beach, 203 00:15:31.240 --> 00:15:33.799 and tracked it to a tunnel which was part of the Sutro Bath ruins. 204 00:15:35.679 --> 00:15:39.919 After that, the dog lost the scent and since the location was near 205 00:15:39.919 --> 00:15:45.200 a rocky, windswept cliff next to the shoreline. There was speculation the Christian 206 00:15:45.279 --> 00:15:50.120 could have fallen into the Pacific Ocean and drowned before her body was swept away. 207 00:15:50.919 --> 00:15:56.279 However, Christian's family was skeptical of this explanation because the Sutro Baths had 208 00:15:56.279 --> 00:16:00.679 a lot of tourist activity and no one reported seeing or hearing anything unusual on 209 00:16:00.720 --> 00:16:06.759 the day she vanished. In addition, Kristin had told her roommates that she 210 00:16:06.840 --> 00:16:10.679 went to a summer Solstice party at Ocean Beach on the evening of June twenty 211 00:16:10.720 --> 00:16:15.080 first, two days before she went missing. Kristin also apparently said she went 212 00:16:15.120 --> 00:16:19.639 to a party with two women, but they were never identified. While the 213 00:16:19.679 --> 00:16:25.519 authorities were unable to find anyone else who attended this party or could confirm that 214 00:16:25.559 --> 00:16:30.519 the party even took place, they could not discount the possibility that the bloodhound 215 00:16:30.639 --> 00:16:34.399 only picked up Kristen sent near Ocean Beach because she went to that location on 216 00:16:34.440 --> 00:16:41.480 the twenty first but never actually went there on the twenty third. Fun side 217 00:16:41.519 --> 00:16:45.080 fact, when I went to San Francisco for a criminology conference, I ate 218 00:16:45.120 --> 00:16:48.279 a the cliff house and visited the Sutra Bass. It was amazing good, 219 00:16:48.320 --> 00:16:52.559 it was really amazing. So I know exactly where she was that night where 220 00:16:52.559 --> 00:16:56.279 they found her scent. It is a very busy area. It's a beach 221 00:16:56.360 --> 00:17:02.039 area. But I think if she was at that tourist location, there would 222 00:17:02.080 --> 00:17:06.319 have been somebody who would be paying attention or would have noticed something out of 223 00:17:06.359 --> 00:17:11.160 sorts. It's very very possible that, yes, she had been there, 224 00:17:11.480 --> 00:17:15.039 but the date is incorrect of when she was there. That's the problem with 225 00:17:15.079 --> 00:17:19.440 things like a bloodhound or saying like well, you know there's DNA here. 226 00:17:19.519 --> 00:17:25.799 Yes, But if her scent or if some piece of evidence is found there 227 00:17:25.799 --> 00:17:30.440 and she had ever been there, then it makes sense that these bloodhounds would 228 00:17:30.440 --> 00:17:33.240 smell her scent, and she had confirmed that with some of her roommates. 229 00:17:33.680 --> 00:17:40.240 So oh, it's very confusing. Likely she was on this adventure during the 230 00:17:40.319 --> 00:17:42.960 day as well, because remember she gets off her shift, she does the 231 00:17:44.000 --> 00:17:47.680 morning shift at the coffee shop, and so I don't see her going out 232 00:17:47.720 --> 00:17:52.559 to the beach and drowning during the day, unless people assumed she was out 233 00:17:52.559 --> 00:17:56.400 there till midnight or one am, when you wouldn't have the same kind of 234 00:17:56.440 --> 00:18:02.000 tourist level and population out there. But yeah, I tend to believe that 235 00:18:02.039 --> 00:18:04.759 if she said she was out there on the twenty first, it's very possible 236 00:18:04.799 --> 00:18:08.440 those bloodhounds were saying she's been here, but it doesn't prove she was there 237 00:18:08.480 --> 00:18:14.160 the twenty third. So from your recollection of going there, would you say 238 00:18:14.200 --> 00:18:15.640 that it was crowded a lot of the time and that it would be very 239 00:18:15.680 --> 00:18:21.279 unlikely for someone to fall off without anyone seeing anything. So okay, So 240 00:18:21.319 --> 00:18:23.400 the cliff house is up high obviously on the cliff, and the Sutra baths 241 00:18:23.400 --> 00:18:27.000 are down further. So if she was going to the Sutra bath area, 242 00:18:27.720 --> 00:18:30.880 I don't feel like there would have been as many places to fall, but 243 00:18:32.839 --> 00:18:36.400 I mean there there could have been. If she was there during the day, 244 00:18:36.400 --> 00:18:38.400 it would have been too much traffic. Had she been there towards dusk 245 00:18:38.400 --> 00:18:41.680 and at the in the evening, yes, of course there's a chance something 246 00:18:41.720 --> 00:18:45.000 could have happened without a bunch of people being around. But had she been 247 00:18:45.000 --> 00:18:48.240 there during daylight, I think that there would have been too many people to 248 00:18:48.319 --> 00:18:55.240 not recognize something odd going on. Kristen's parents, Bob and Debbie, decided 249 00:18:55.279 --> 00:18:59.640 to search through her personal possessions inside her rented room in Oakland and came across 250 00:18:59.640 --> 00:19:03.680 a cop be of the weekly alternative newspaper, the San Francisco Bay Guardian. 251 00:19:03.519 --> 00:19:07.039 This particular issue was for the week of June the eleventh to the seventeenth, 252 00:19:07.440 --> 00:19:12.640 and it featured a personal ad which had been circled and read quote friends female 253 00:19:12.640 --> 00:19:18.200 seeking friends to share activities. Who enjoy music, photography, working out, 254 00:19:18.400 --> 00:19:22.599 walks, coffee, or simply the beach, exploring the Bay area interested call 255 00:19:22.720 --> 00:19:27.640 me end quote. Unfortunately, the backlog of The Bay Guardian's computer records for 256 00:19:27.720 --> 00:19:32.240 personal ads had already been deleted by this point, so it could not be 257 00:19:32.319 --> 00:19:36.759 determined if Kristen had answered this personal ad or placed it herself, or if 258 00:19:36.759 --> 00:19:40.960 it even had any relevance at all to her disappearance. However, since the 259 00:19:40.960 --> 00:19:45.359 person who wrote the ad had similar hobbies to Kristin, her parents believed she 260 00:19:45.480 --> 00:19:48.680 might have written it. That's what I thought. As soon as you read 261 00:19:48.759 --> 00:19:52.000 the ad, I went, is this her? She? It seems like 262 00:19:52.119 --> 00:19:53.920 it is. It's a very similar to just to remember, she's there for 263 00:19:53.960 --> 00:19:59.720 photography. She goes out to the beach and likes to explore, and she 264 00:19:59.799 --> 00:20:03.400 w at a coffee shop. Now these are not unlikely hobbies when you live 265 00:20:03.440 --> 00:20:08.359 in San Francisco, but it is something that makes you think would an eighteen 266 00:20:08.440 --> 00:20:14.680 year old posts this when she lives with four guys, she hasn't started classes, 267 00:20:15.000 --> 00:20:18.880 and the only people she's really interacting with are her co workers. It 268 00:20:18.039 --> 00:20:22.680 seems likely that she could have said, I'm going to turn to the San 269 00:20:22.720 --> 00:20:26.799 Francisco Bay Guardian and see if there's any other young people who want to hang 270 00:20:26.839 --> 00:20:30.480 out and other girls that want to get together and hang out. And it 271 00:20:30.759 --> 00:20:37.160 seems like Kristen actually was finding some people to socialize with. These two women 272 00:20:37.240 --> 00:20:42.400 who invited her to this summer Solstice party if it occurred, the woman who 273 00:20:42.559 --> 00:20:48.480 she ran into at the mall. So it makes you wonder how did she 274 00:20:48.559 --> 00:20:52.400 meet them, Who were these people, what were their backgrounds? But no 275 00:20:52.440 --> 00:20:56.240 one knows. Back in the prehistoric days before the Internet, when you would 276 00:20:56.240 --> 00:21:00.759 actually have to put a physical ad in a physical newspaper in order to meet 277 00:21:00.799 --> 00:21:06.440 people, it must sound so wild to anyone who's like gen Z right, 278 00:21:06.559 --> 00:21:11.720 the idea of somebody actually putting a personal ad in a physical paper to meet 279 00:21:11.759 --> 00:21:15.880 somebody, rather than like using some kind of app to either find her own 280 00:21:15.880 --> 00:21:18.839 magic partner or a friend. It's wild. Yeah, you used to actually 281 00:21:18.920 --> 00:21:22.599 have to talk to people and seek people and reach out. But yeah, 282 00:21:22.640 --> 00:21:26.759 this is a printed ad that she would have had to put out if it's 283 00:21:26.799 --> 00:21:32.640 her saying help, I need a friend. And what's scary is if she 284 00:21:32.759 --> 00:21:37.599 had placed that ad and if her personal information had ever been shared, it 285 00:21:37.640 --> 00:21:41.799 does open her up to a lot of people who or seeking ulterior motives or 286 00:21:41.839 --> 00:21:45.240 said, let's trick her by meeting her under the guise of being a friend, 287 00:21:45.240 --> 00:21:51.000 but then we can take advantage of her dangerous like Craigslist could be dangerous. 288 00:21:51.039 --> 00:21:52.880 Oh my gosh, yes, I remember Craigslist being the hot thing. 289 00:21:56.160 --> 00:22:00.440 On July tenth, two and a half weeks after Kristen went missing, the 290 00:22:00.519 --> 00:22:06.079 case would take a disturbing turn when an anonymous male caller phoned the newsroom assignment 291 00:22:06.160 --> 00:22:11.680 manager at San Francisco's a b C affiliate k g O t V. The 292 00:22:11.759 --> 00:22:15.960 caller claimed that two women from the local y MCA had abducted and murdered Christen 293 00:22:17.160 --> 00:22:21.960 over a lesbian love triangle gone wrong, and hid her remains beneath the bridge 294 00:22:22.000 --> 00:22:26.640 in the Point Reya's area of Marin County. While investigators looked into this lead, 295 00:22:26.960 --> 00:22:32.720 but were unable to find eddy remains or evidence at this location, and 296 00:22:32.799 --> 00:22:36.200 when they tracked down these two women at the y m c A, they 297 00:22:36.240 --> 00:22:41.920 both denied any knowledge or involvement in Christian's disappearance and were ruled out as suspects. 298 00:22:42.400 --> 00:22:45.400 However, when the women were asked if they knew any one who held 299 00:22:45.400 --> 00:22:49.640 a grudge against them and might have been compelled to falsely implicate them in a 300 00:22:49.720 --> 00:22:53.960 murder, they both named a thirty six year old man named John or Numa, 301 00:22:55.480 --> 00:22:59.680 who worked about a mile away from the Crocker Galleria. The two women 302 00:22:59.720 --> 00:23:03.000 had both worked alongside on Numa's girlfriend, Jill Lampo, but did not get 303 00:23:03.039 --> 00:23:07.440 along with her, and since Sonuma believed they were conspiring to get her fired, 304 00:23:07.880 --> 00:23:14.559 he responded by threatening and harassing them for it. When investigators questioned Onuma, 305 00:23:14.799 --> 00:23:18.720 he initially denied being the anonymous caller, but eventually admitted he did phone 306 00:23:18.759 --> 00:23:23.319 in the tip because he was intentionally trying to cause problems for the two women. 307 00:23:23.359 --> 00:23:29.240 As revenge, He decided to falsely accuse them of murder after hearing about 308 00:23:29.359 --> 00:23:33.559 Christian Modiferi's disappearance in the media, but maintained that he had no prior knowledge 309 00:23:33.559 --> 00:23:38.240 of the case. In spite of the numa's suspicious actions, there was no 310 00:23:38.359 --> 00:23:44.640 evidence to implicate him, and he eventually left San Francisco. Here's what's so 311 00:23:44.960 --> 00:23:49.000 ridiculous is that these two women so easily could look at each other and say, 312 00:23:49.160 --> 00:23:53.279 who would have done something like this? Oh, John would have done 313 00:23:53.279 --> 00:23:57.880 something like this. He's actually threatened to take us down and destroy our lives 314 00:23:57.920 --> 00:24:04.720 because of Jill, and so it's really bizarre to think of how twisted this 315 00:24:04.839 --> 00:24:10.400 individual is that in order to protect his girlfriend, he's going around threatening these 316 00:24:10.440 --> 00:24:14.079 other women to a point that when they're questioned by police, they say, 317 00:24:14.119 --> 00:24:17.119 I know who did this, John, And when they go to John, 318 00:24:17.599 --> 00:24:19.920 eventually he says that yes, he made this call, but it was only 319 00:24:19.960 --> 00:24:26.200 to destroy these women's lives. He's really doing a lot of things here. 320 00:24:26.440 --> 00:24:33.440 He's destroying at the time, their character for murder and for their sexual orientation. 321 00:24:33.119 --> 00:24:37.279 This is San Francisco, so way more accepting, but twenty seven years 322 00:24:37.319 --> 00:24:41.759 ago, these are two women who are being accused of being lesbians and may 323 00:24:41.799 --> 00:24:48.559 not be accepted by everybody, especially law enforcement. So it's possible that he 324 00:24:48.720 --> 00:24:52.599 was trying to tear down their character in multiple ways, right, that they 325 00:24:52.599 --> 00:24:56.039 would not only abuse this woman, that there's these two lesbians in this love 326 00:24:56.079 --> 00:25:02.799 triangle, and then they kill her and dispose of her. What a dramatic 327 00:25:02.960 --> 00:25:07.039 turn because they didn't like your girlfriend and might have been trying to get her 328 00:25:07.079 --> 00:25:14.680 fired from work. It seems ridiculously escalated. And the other part of me, 329 00:25:14.759 --> 00:25:18.160 though, thinks, if this guy has nothing to do with Kristen's disappearance, 330 00:25:18.160 --> 00:25:23.920 and it truly is all about Jill, how messed up that his call 331 00:25:25.559 --> 00:25:30.759 would focus all these resources and attention towards an investigation down this path. And 332 00:25:30.799 --> 00:25:33.599 then what if it's nothing. What if John has nothing to do with it? 333 00:25:33.680 --> 00:25:37.400 What if these two women had nothing to do with it, And there's 334 00:25:37.440 --> 00:25:41.359 a totally different lead that the police could have missed because they were spending so 335 00:25:41.480 --> 00:25:48.920 much time on this guy's ridiculous phone call to law enforcement. Oh yeah, 336 00:25:48.920 --> 00:25:52.000 Like, regardless of whether or not John Onnuma was actually complicit in that Kristen's 337 00:25:52.039 --> 00:25:56.000 disappearance, it's indisputable that he is a major douchebag for even doing this in 338 00:25:56.039 --> 00:26:00.039 the first place, and he is a very troubling individual. And we'll talk 339 00:26:00.039 --> 00:26:04.240 more about this later. But when he gave his story to the news affiliate, 340 00:26:04.799 --> 00:26:07.160 he didn't just flat out say, oh, these two women I know 341 00:26:07.279 --> 00:26:11.759 murdered Kristan Mataferi, Like, he gave a detailed layout of how they did 342 00:26:11.759 --> 00:26:15.039 it and what they did. And it just seems so weird to me that 343 00:26:15.119 --> 00:26:19.559 he would give such details about a case that he supposedly had no knowledge of, 344 00:26:21.119 --> 00:26:23.880 just as some sort of weird prank. So that's why, even though 345 00:26:25.000 --> 00:26:29.599 like this happened something like twenty seven years ago, people are still suspicious of 346 00:26:29.640 --> 00:26:33.160 John o'neuma to this day and think that he didn't just do this as some 347 00:26:33.200 --> 00:26:37.920 sort of prank. He knows something about the case and maybe projecting because he 348 00:26:37.079 --> 00:26:41.400 was the one who murdered Kristen. And do we even know if these women 349 00:26:41.440 --> 00:26:47.319 were out as gay, because it's just just an extra layer of like bottom 350 00:26:47.359 --> 00:26:52.240 tier human behavior to put a tip out there with their names, and this 351 00:26:52.279 --> 00:26:56.319 suggests as a lesbian love triangle. If these women aren't out of the closet 352 00:26:56.440 --> 00:27:00.119 like that could be a real problem for them, both in their employment and 353 00:27:00.160 --> 00:27:03.799 in their personal lives given the time period. Well, thank you, the 354 00:27:03.839 --> 00:27:07.599 police were very protective of the women, like their names and nothing about their 355 00:27:07.599 --> 00:27:11.519 personal lives was released publicly. All they really said is that they were ruled 356 00:27:11.519 --> 00:27:15.599 out as suspects. So I really don't know if they were actually gay or 357 00:27:15.720 --> 00:27:18.519 lesbian. And this could have been just a sort of detail that no Numa 358 00:27:18.599 --> 00:27:22.400 decided to add to the story. But yes, you're right, if it 359 00:27:22.519 --> 00:27:26.680 was that way and they were being outed by them, then that just adds 360 00:27:26.720 --> 00:27:30.920 a whole other element of sleaziness to this whole situation. And what's wild is 361 00:27:30.960 --> 00:27:34.720 this man thirty six years old. This is not a twenty four year old 362 00:27:34.720 --> 00:27:40.640 trying to get revenge on someone at thirty six. If your girlfriend is not 363 00:27:40.680 --> 00:27:42.960 getting along with people at work, it's one of those things. You help 364 00:27:44.039 --> 00:27:47.480 her personally, You give her some tips of how to professionally deal with it, 365 00:27:47.880 --> 00:27:52.319 you help her get a different job, You let it go like you 366 00:27:52.640 --> 00:27:55.400 act professionally, and you say, this is the best we can do here, 367 00:27:55.440 --> 00:27:57.359 Maybe we need to get you out of the situation, and you leave 368 00:27:57.759 --> 00:28:03.119 at thirty six. I feel like this whole ruse and call to police it 369 00:28:03.200 --> 00:28:07.839 really shows some kind of like immaturity at the best, but mental health issues 370 00:28:08.000 --> 00:28:12.039 of someone who would go this far to get back at somebody because of your 371 00:28:12.079 --> 00:28:18.319 girlfriend's work situation. There's a slight misogynistic bent too, when you have men 372 00:28:18.400 --> 00:28:23.240 getting involved in women's business and you see it like the most clearly. I 373 00:28:23.240 --> 00:28:29.440 don't know if either of you watch like reality TV or housewives when you see 374 00:28:29.920 --> 00:28:33.359 a situation where you got the men jumping in trying to, like, you 375 00:28:33.400 --> 00:28:37.200 know, defend their wives, but they look very anti women when they start 376 00:28:37.240 --> 00:28:41.759 going out a woman rather than letting the women handle it themselves. Is just 377 00:28:42.039 --> 00:28:45.799 never a good look. Here, he is at forty six, like you 378 00:28:45.839 --> 00:28:49.519 said, intervening when he should just be supporting her and be a shoulder for 379 00:28:49.559 --> 00:28:53.559 her to cry on if she's having issues, maybe give her suggestions of how 380 00:28:53.599 --> 00:28:57.400 she could move forward in a positive way. But like, what is he 381 00:28:57.559 --> 00:29:00.839 doing involving himself at some thing like a sixteen year old kid would do? 382 00:29:02.920 --> 00:29:06.240 Oh exactly. And I know that Jill Lampo was in her twenties at that 383 00:29:06.359 --> 00:29:11.680 point. She was considerably younger than Onuma, So he definitely comes across as 384 00:29:11.720 --> 00:29:15.799 a major predator. However, in May of nineteen ninety nine, Kristen's case 385 00:29:15.880 --> 00:29:21.039 was featured on America's Most Wanted and it was announced that authorities wanted to locate 386 00:29:21.119 --> 00:29:25.720 John Onuma for further questioning. During the preceding two years, a number of 387 00:29:25.799 --> 00:29:29.920 women had come forward to accuse Ouma of abusing them or stealing their money, 388 00:29:30.319 --> 00:29:33.119 and three of them agreed to be interviewed on The America's Most Wanted episode. 389 00:29:33.759 --> 00:29:38.480 One of these women referred to Onuma as a quote unquote human vampire who sucks 390 00:29:38.519 --> 00:29:42.160 the life out of you, and the victims accused him of such horrific acts 391 00:29:42.160 --> 00:29:47.079 as holding them against their will as a sex slave, and beating and torturing 392 00:29:47.119 --> 00:29:51.880 them with such methods as burning their hands with cigarettes. These women said that 393 00:29:51.920 --> 00:29:56.960 they did not report these incidents at the time because they feared retaliation from Onuma, 394 00:29:56.160 --> 00:30:00.559 and one of them claimed that she was abused by him shortly after Kristen 395 00:30:00.599 --> 00:30:03.160 went missing and heard him say quote, you know, I'm going to have 396 00:30:03.240 --> 00:30:07.519 to kill you. I can't let you go now. You know what happened 397 00:30:07.519 --> 00:30:11.640 to kristin Modaferi end quote. Only a few days after The America's Most Wanted 398 00:30:11.680 --> 00:30:17.200 episode aired, it was announced that a viewer tip had helped authorities locate Onnuma 399 00:30:17.279 --> 00:30:19.880 in his native Hawaii, and he agreed to fly to California to meet up 400 00:30:19.920 --> 00:30:26.000 with the investigators on Kristen's case and take a light detector test. It's unclear 401 00:30:26.039 --> 00:30:29.480 if this ever took place, but no. Numa has never been charged in 402 00:30:29.559 --> 00:30:33.960 connection to any of these allegations of abuse against him. Anuma's victims claimed that 403 00:30:34.000 --> 00:30:38.720 he originally met them through personal ads and newspapers, and would sometimes use other 404 00:30:38.799 --> 00:30:45.039 women, including his girlfriend Jill Lampo, to Lua's victims to him. This 405 00:30:45.160 --> 00:30:49.839 detail is particularly interesting when you consider the personal ad found in Kristin's room and 406 00:30:49.920 --> 00:30:55.519 the sighting of her with the unidentified blonde woman before she went missing. But 407 00:30:55.599 --> 00:30:59.799 it must be clarified that Jill Lampo is a brunette, so the only way 408 00:30:59.799 --> 00:31:03.480 she could be the woman seen with Kristen is if she had dyed her hair 409 00:31:03.839 --> 00:31:07.160 or wore a blonde wig that day. So do you know, Robin, 410 00:31:07.319 --> 00:31:12.799 how many of these women that come forward were there were the police taking their 411 00:31:12.839 --> 00:31:21.880 claims seriously? Did they believe that these women truly were abused and tortured the 412 00:31:21.880 --> 00:31:25.720 way that they described by John, Because that really does put him in a 413 00:31:25.759 --> 00:31:29.480 different category. Like I said, at the best, he was showing signs 414 00:31:29.519 --> 00:31:33.359 of being immature, but at the worst. There really seems to be a 415 00:31:33.440 --> 00:31:37.200 big flaw in the kind of human he is just from the claims, but 416 00:31:37.559 --> 00:31:42.039 now to think that there's women backing up that he was physically and sexually abusive 417 00:31:42.319 --> 00:31:48.319 emotionally abusive. If the police are validating those claims, it does put him 418 00:31:48.319 --> 00:31:52.640 in a different light towards Christen's disappearance. I think the police did take them 419 00:31:52.680 --> 00:31:56.200 seriously because these women were interviewed on America's Most Wanted and I don't think the 420 00:31:56.200 --> 00:32:00.720 police would have let them do that unless they believe their claim re credible. 421 00:32:00.240 --> 00:32:04.240 But I think at this time they pretty much figured this is nothing more than 422 00:32:04.279 --> 00:32:07.079 he said, she said, So we don't actually have any evidence to prosecute 423 00:32:07.160 --> 00:32:10.160 him other than their word, because as far as I can tell, he 424 00:32:10.279 --> 00:32:15.599 has never faced any criminal charges for any of this. But it does sound 425 00:32:15.640 --> 00:32:20.119 like law enforcement does believe that these women's accounts are true. I mean, 426 00:32:20.119 --> 00:32:22.519 that's a lot of smoke, having that many women come forward for there to 427 00:32:22.559 --> 00:32:27.440 be no fire one thousand percent, And it is scary to think there was 428 00:32:27.440 --> 00:32:31.079 a public ad where she's asking people to come meet her. It intensifies the 429 00:32:31.079 --> 00:32:37.200 situation when you think Kristen could have placed a physical ad asking people to contact 430 00:32:37.200 --> 00:32:40.079 her to hang out. Because if you are a predator or you're someone who 431 00:32:40.200 --> 00:32:45.559 likes to manipulate and abuse people, that's a perfect opportunity to go through the 432 00:32:45.599 --> 00:32:52.039 newspaper and say, here's a woman seeking companionship and friendship in a new city. 433 00:32:52.480 --> 00:32:57.599 She's letting people know that she isn't familiar right, she's exploring, and 434 00:32:58.599 --> 00:33:00.880 it opens her up to someone who's a predator saying I want to hurt this 435 00:33:01.000 --> 00:33:06.839 individual. It's a very vulnerable, perfect candidate, someone begging, someone begging 436 00:33:06.839 --> 00:33:12.279 for social companionship and attention. So oh, it really does put John in 437 00:33:12.680 --> 00:33:19.079 a different perspective hearing that those women came forward against him. When investigators performed 438 00:33:19.079 --> 00:33:22.759 a search of the apartment that Lampo and Numa had been sharing and found Lampo's 439 00:33:22.839 --> 00:33:28.519 day planner, they noticed that some pages from June nineteen ninety seven were missing. 440 00:33:29.480 --> 00:33:34.039 This would have corresponded with the time period when Christian disappeared, and Lampo 441 00:33:34.160 --> 00:33:37.559 claimed that a Numa tore the pages out because he believed there was material in 442 00:33:37.599 --> 00:33:42.319 there that could come back to hurt him. In June of two thousand and 443 00:33:42.400 --> 00:33:46.200 one, Christian's case would be featured on an episode of Unsolved Mysteries, and 444 00:33:46.279 --> 00:33:51.720 while Onuma agreed to participate, the show only referred to him by his first 445 00:33:51.799 --> 00:33:55.640 name, and his interview was filmed in silhouette in order to conceal his face, 446 00:33:55.880 --> 00:34:02.079 and his voice was digitally altered. Ouma any involvement in Christian's disappearance and 447 00:34:02.200 --> 00:34:07.920 acknowledged that he made a big mistake by phoning in a fake tip before apologizing 448 00:34:07.960 --> 00:34:13.599 to the Modifery family. He also claimed that he passed a polygraph test given 449 00:34:13.639 --> 00:34:17.800 by a reputable expert. At some point, Numa wound up being evicted from 450 00:34:17.840 --> 00:34:22.039 the house where he was living in Hawaii, and shortly thereafter, a briefcase 451 00:34:22.079 --> 00:34:28.559 containing a number of articles about Christian's case was found inside the attic. Okay, 452 00:34:28.599 --> 00:34:31.639 so clearly he's obsessed with the case in general, whether or not he's 453 00:34:31.679 --> 00:34:38.079 the one who actually kidnapped or harmed Kristen. He has a briefcase that has 454 00:34:38.119 --> 00:34:44.400 a number of articles about her disappearance in it. That's odd. I can't 455 00:34:44.440 --> 00:34:50.239 remember a single case that someone who's not an investigator or someone associated with the 456 00:34:50.320 --> 00:34:53.320 case. I can't think of why you'd sit there and collect newspaper articles about 457 00:34:53.360 --> 00:35:00.360 a given disappeared young lady. He also intertwined himself so deeply. Not only 458 00:35:00.400 --> 00:35:05.159 is he collecting the newspaper ads or articles, but he's also making this phone 459 00:35:05.199 --> 00:35:07.840 call saying he knows what happened to her and getting himself in her twined that 460 00:35:07.880 --> 00:35:13.159 way, and he talks about passing a polygraph test. Is this done by 461 00:35:13.239 --> 00:35:16.480 law enforcement? And did he? I haven't seen any corroboration about this. 462 00:35:16.559 --> 00:35:21.320 We only have Ouma's word from his interview where he said I passed a polygraph 463 00:35:21.400 --> 00:35:24.000 test, and he just said given by a reputable expert. But law enforcement 464 00:35:24.079 --> 00:35:29.239 never confirmed or denied that. Yeah, I don't see that happening. I 465 00:35:29.280 --> 00:35:32.039 think law enforcement would have come forward and said, listen, he passed a 466 00:35:32.119 --> 00:35:36.639 light detector test, we need to kind of widen our scope and look somewhere 467 00:35:36.719 --> 00:35:40.599 else. But he's saying he just passed it by some reputable expert. And 468 00:35:40.639 --> 00:35:44.599 who the heck knows who that is? According to him, I mean the 469 00:35:44.599 --> 00:35:47.840 way he talks and has this fantasy life that he leads it could be his 470 00:35:47.880 --> 00:35:52.599 girlfriend, who knows. But the briefcase with the number of articles and him 471 00:35:52.639 --> 00:35:55.880 tearing out those pages because there's something that quote could come back and harm him. 472 00:35:57.920 --> 00:36:00.559 What else, what did you write in your date planner? And why 473 00:36:00.559 --> 00:36:05.280 are you collecting those articles if you had nothing to do with the case. 474 00:36:05.360 --> 00:36:08.719 What would have implicated you in your day planner? Yep, just seems like 475 00:36:08.760 --> 00:36:13.280 too much of a coincidence that it happens to correspond with the time period when 476 00:36:13.320 --> 00:36:16.280 Kristen went missing, and there's multiple layers to it. It's all of those 477 00:36:16.320 --> 00:36:20.079 things added up. It's in him saying, oh, I thought I'd actually 478 00:36:20.119 --> 00:36:22.880 get caught, I'd be implicated with those two pages of my day planner or 479 00:36:22.920 --> 00:36:28.840 whatever. Like John, You're he's a mess. And think who compiles a 480 00:36:28.880 --> 00:36:32.599 whole briefcase of articles about a case when you had nothing to do with it. 481 00:36:34.719 --> 00:36:37.400 Do you guys think he could have been compiling those articles to get information 482 00:36:37.519 --> 00:36:40.519 when he made those false claims, or do you think it was too soon 483 00:36:40.639 --> 00:36:45.280 and he was collecting those articles after the anonymous tip was called in. I 484 00:36:45.280 --> 00:36:49.800 don't think Kristen's case got that much coverage when he made his tip, Like 485 00:36:49.840 --> 00:36:52.519 she'd only been missing for a few weeks at this point. So I have 486 00:36:52.599 --> 00:36:54.559 to think that if he has an entire briefcase, that he had been collecting 487 00:36:54.599 --> 00:37:00.599 them over the course of the next several years. If he got a polygraph 488 00:37:00.639 --> 00:37:07.000 test from a reputable expert, wouldn't you list who that reputable expert was so 489 00:37:07.119 --> 00:37:12.239 that law enforcement or the public could be able to discern, Like you said, 490 00:37:12.280 --> 00:37:15.440 as it could have been like his girlfriend, It could have been anybody 491 00:37:15.679 --> 00:37:20.119 who were like, oh, yes, reputable expert over here, she administered 492 00:37:20.119 --> 00:37:23.280 a polygraph, when really it's like, not actually a polygraph, So why 493 00:37:23.320 --> 00:37:29.119 don't we know who this person is or what agency they were from, or 494 00:37:29.119 --> 00:37:31.519 what organization. And you would think if he passed it, you'd think if 495 00:37:31.519 --> 00:37:36.159 he passed it with that expert, wouldn't the law enforcement give him the same 496 00:37:36.199 --> 00:37:38.000 polygraph or give him an exam as well and say, yeah he did, 497 00:37:38.039 --> 00:37:42.840 he passed that private one and he passed hours that didn't happen. One would 498 00:37:42.880 --> 00:37:45.239 think, I got doctor Nick Riviera to give me this polygraph, don't you 499 00:37:45.239 --> 00:37:52.519 believe him? So during the early stages of the investigation, Kristen's parents had 500 00:37:52.519 --> 00:37:58.039 attempted to contact the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, but we're told 501 00:37:58.079 --> 00:38:01.679 they cannot provide any assistance since uk Kristen was legally an adult when she disappeared 502 00:38:02.159 --> 00:38:07.079 even though she had only turned eighteen three weeks earlier. So the case eventually 503 00:38:07.079 --> 00:38:14.239 inspired Sue Meyrick, the US representative for North Carolina's ninth Congressional District, to 504 00:38:14.320 --> 00:38:19.039 introduce a new bill titled Kristen's Act, which would provide assistance to law enforcement 505 00:38:19.280 --> 00:38:23.039 and families of missing adults over the age of seventeen. Kristen's Act would allow 506 00:38:23.079 --> 00:38:29.280 for the annual sequestering of one million dollars in support of missing persons organizations, 507 00:38:29.280 --> 00:38:32.679 including the National Center for Missing Adults, and it was officially signed into law 508 00:38:32.719 --> 00:38:37.960 by President Bill Clinton in October of two thousand. Around this same time period, 509 00:38:38.360 --> 00:38:44.760 one of the Madafery family's neighbors in Charlotte, Jones Scanlon Petruski, decided 510 00:38:44.760 --> 00:38:51.719 to establish the Christen Foundation, a nonprofit organization which offers financial and informational assistance 511 00:38:51.880 --> 00:38:55.400 to the families of missing or endangered adults over the age of eighteen, and 512 00:38:55.480 --> 00:39:00.840 the Foundation has provided assistance to hundreds of missing persons case like I mentioned in 513 00:39:00.840 --> 00:39:06.400 the intro. A few months after Kristen went missing, another Charlotte resident named 514 00:39:06.400 --> 00:39:10.599 Dennis Mann offered to assist the Mauda Fairies by traveling to California and performing his 515 00:39:10.679 --> 00:39:15.519 own independent investigation, but will be discussing some of the things he uncovered later 516 00:39:15.559 --> 00:39:20.880 on. In June of twenty fifteen, there would be a new development in 517 00:39:20.920 --> 00:39:25.199 the case when Paul Dosty, a retired police officer turned private investigator hired by 518 00:39:25.199 --> 00:39:30.199 the Mauda Faery family, decided to perform a new search of the house where 519 00:39:30.280 --> 00:39:35.000 Kristin had been living in on Jane Avenue in Oakland at the time she disappeared. 520 00:39:35.639 --> 00:39:38.760 Dosti would be assisted by cadaver dog named Buster, who had once used 521 00:39:38.800 --> 00:39:43.880 his sense of smell to locate the remains of World War Two soldiers who went 522 00:39:43.920 --> 00:39:47.320 missing in action. Buster proceeded to pick up a scent that has been described 523 00:39:47.360 --> 00:39:53.760 as a quote unquote chemical plume and is associated with human decomposition. The dog 524 00:39:53.840 --> 00:39:58.679 barked when it picked something up on a drainage pipe and proceeded to follow it 525 00:39:58.719 --> 00:40:02.519 to the basement door at the back of the house. This prompted Paul Dosty 526 00:40:02.920 --> 00:40:07.760 to recommend that the Oakland PD excavate a concrete slab in the basement, take 527 00:40:07.840 --> 00:40:14.760 soil samples, and reinterview Kristen's former roommates. The police responded by bringing in 528 00:40:14.800 --> 00:40:19.480 specialists with ground penetrating radar to perform a search of the basement. But we're 529 00:40:19.519 --> 00:40:22.239 not able to turn up anything, and since the basement soil was dense, 530 00:40:22.360 --> 00:40:27.239 hard packed clay, it would have been very difficult for anyone to dig it 531 00:40:27.360 --> 00:40:32.159 up and bury a body there. Well, that puts a unique element to 532 00:40:32.199 --> 00:40:36.599 this case, right, you do have the family friend who comes out and 533 00:40:36.679 --> 00:40:43.199 helps. There's got to be this kind of enraged helplessness that the parents feel 534 00:40:43.239 --> 00:40:45.800 when for several days the police are saying, you know, she's a grown 535 00:40:45.840 --> 00:40:50.239 woman, she's eighteen, she could do what she wants. She'll probably show 536 00:40:50.320 --> 00:40:53.880 up soon. And Kristen's parents are very well aware this is not typical behavior 537 00:40:53.880 --> 00:40:59.599 by Kristin. She was a very driven young lady and she was really pursuing 538 00:40:59.639 --> 00:41:04.760 a dream. Something's wrong. No one helps for several days, which is 539 00:41:04.800 --> 00:41:07.039 a problem because the more time that passes, the less evidence we're going to 540 00:41:07.119 --> 00:41:12.400 get. The friend comes out and does his own investigation, and then they 541 00:41:12.440 --> 00:41:16.079 also hire this man who comes out with cadaver dogs. It gives a lot 542 00:41:16.079 --> 00:41:20.679 of promise to Kristen's family, who's saying, look, there's a hit. 543 00:41:21.239 --> 00:41:24.880 It's like she might have been hurt in that home. I think that would 544 00:41:24.880 --> 00:41:30.679 cast a huge darkness over those four roommates. And yet when the police go 545 00:41:30.800 --> 00:41:34.599 out, they're looking at saying, you know, this is a really difficult 546 00:41:35.639 --> 00:41:39.320 scenario in location because I don't think a body could have been buried here. 547 00:41:39.400 --> 00:41:44.400 So if we're going to dig up the ground, the composition of the ground 548 00:41:44.519 --> 00:41:47.639 just doesn't really work for body disposal. Is it possible she could have been 549 00:41:47.719 --> 00:41:52.960 hurt there and left somewhere. I think it's possible. But remember the roommates 550 00:41:52.960 --> 00:41:58.480 are on board and helping day three of her missing. So to what extent 551 00:41:58.519 --> 00:42:01.800 would she be decomposing at that point when the parents are literally flying in to 552 00:42:01.920 --> 00:42:07.000 help day three of her missing. Yeah, that's the confusing aspect of this 553 00:42:07.079 --> 00:42:12.599 case because we know Kristin was last seen at the Galleria in downtown San Francisco, 554 00:42:12.800 --> 00:42:15.000 and she would have needed to travel quite a distance to make it back 555 00:42:15.039 --> 00:42:19.679 to her home in Oakland, and there's no evidence that she ever made it 556 00:42:19.679 --> 00:42:23.079 there that day, because there are no eyewit sightings of her in Oakland after 557 00:42:23.159 --> 00:42:28.280 she left the galleria. And of course that kind of takes suspicious away from 558 00:42:28.360 --> 00:42:32.000 John o'numa because he lived in downtown San Francisco. So if he harmed Kristin, 559 00:42:32.480 --> 00:42:37.639 why is the scent of her decomposition being found at her house in Oakland? 560 00:42:37.719 --> 00:42:42.199 So that's what causes all this confusion with the case. I don't know 561 00:42:42.239 --> 00:42:45.679 what to make of these readings and know if the cadaver dogs snipping out kristin 562 00:42:45.800 --> 00:42:52.159 scent is reliable. I have to believe that Buster is a very good kidaverdog 563 00:42:52.480 --> 00:42:58.360 because he was obviously used to look for the remains of people from World War 564 00:42:58.400 --> 00:43:02.960 Two, but they're all So is no standardized protocol with regards to training dogs 565 00:43:04.440 --> 00:43:07.519 to be cadaver dogs across the US. It differs from state to state, 566 00:43:08.119 --> 00:43:13.079 and so some can be trained on pseudo sense, some are actually trained on 567 00:43:13.400 --> 00:43:20.239 decomposition, others can be trained on animal decomposition. It really varies, so 568 00:43:20.440 --> 00:43:23.440 it's really tough to know. Maybe a family had lived in this home before, 569 00:43:23.480 --> 00:43:27.800 and maybe they had a deceased pet, and if Buster was just taught 570 00:43:27.880 --> 00:43:34.519 on decomposition in general and not just specifically human decomposition, maybe he smelled this. 571 00:43:34.800 --> 00:43:39.159 He or she smelled the smell of what was a decomposing animal that maybe 572 00:43:39.360 --> 00:43:43.800 was in the basement for a period of time before it was buried elsewhere. 573 00:43:44.800 --> 00:43:47.400 That's what I was wondering. I was wondering what other elements could lead to 574 00:43:47.559 --> 00:43:52.880 similar smells, because, like you said, Jeles, depending on how they're 575 00:43:52.960 --> 00:43:59.199 trained, there's other organisms that break down, or even bodily fluids that break 576 00:43:59.239 --> 00:44:02.599 down, that start to have sense that are similar to the ones they're designed 577 00:44:02.599 --> 00:44:06.880 to pick out. I mean, they're picking out things like hydrogen sulfide, 578 00:44:07.519 --> 00:44:12.880 disulfied, all kinds of things that they're really smelling for, which is part 579 00:44:12.920 --> 00:44:15.280 of human decomposition. But in my head, I'm trying to rack my brain 580 00:44:15.320 --> 00:44:20.719 for things that also could have been in that location and not necessarily been a 581 00:44:20.760 --> 00:44:27.199 dead body, but perhaps an incident of bodily fluids or something else. Like 582 00:44:27.239 --> 00:44:31.119 you said, an animal, and that dog is hitting on accurate chemical decomposition, 583 00:44:31.199 --> 00:44:36.320 but maybe not a human being. So it does depend on how this 584 00:44:36.400 --> 00:44:39.800 baby was trained, and it depends on his handler and how his response to 585 00:44:39.880 --> 00:44:45.559 the dog is performed. It's a very subjective science. It's a magical science 586 00:44:45.599 --> 00:44:50.079 because there is an accuracy to it, but it's not perfect. It's human 587 00:44:50.159 --> 00:44:55.320 lead and animal driven. So and what if somebody who lived in the home 588 00:44:55.400 --> 00:45:00.960 prior had an accident in the basement, because these things can happen, right 589 00:45:00.159 --> 00:45:04.519 depending on what type of tools you have down there. Say you cut your 590 00:45:04.559 --> 00:45:08.920 hand and a bunch of blood blood somewhere, and then later that is going 591 00:45:08.960 --> 00:45:14.440 to have the smell of decomposition. Perhaps, I'm not quite sure if the 592 00:45:14.480 --> 00:45:17.559 dog would be able to differentiate from blood and possible tissue that could have come 593 00:45:17.599 --> 00:45:22.800 from an injury and the smell of an entire body. Like I'm just not 594 00:45:22.840 --> 00:45:27.320 sure what dogs can and cannot smell, and how sophisticated their training is. 595 00:45:28.079 --> 00:45:30.559 So there's just a lot of questions here. And like you said, one 596 00:45:30.559 --> 00:45:35.599 of the problems is then it takes the heat off of John and really does 597 00:45:35.639 --> 00:45:37.880 put it. If it was at her home, you would think it's got 598 00:45:37.880 --> 00:45:42.079 to be one of those four roommates. Because there's four guys living in this 599 00:45:42.119 --> 00:45:45.519 old Victorian home. It would be odd that this strange person made their way 600 00:45:45.519 --> 00:45:50.039 in there at some point in the night and no one you know, here's 601 00:45:50.119 --> 00:45:52.360 him or anything like that. To their knowledge. She didn't even make it 602 00:45:52.440 --> 00:45:58.840 home, much less someone else being in the house at the time. In 603 00:45:58.880 --> 00:46:04.559 February twenty seventeen, doctor R. Pod Voss, a research scientist and forensic 604 00:46:04.599 --> 00:46:09.360 anthropologist who specializes in human decomposition, decided to perform his own search of the 605 00:46:09.440 --> 00:46:15.880 residence. He used a proprietary device which detects human decomposition chemicals, and it 606 00:46:15.960 --> 00:46:22.800 reportedly picked up signals in an area located between Christian's former house and the residence 607 00:46:22.880 --> 00:46:28.400 next door. More specifically, it picked up a chemical signature denoting the presence 608 00:46:28.400 --> 00:46:32.039 of human blood near a concrete slab at the base of some porch steps at 609 00:46:32.039 --> 00:46:37.760 the other residence. Back in nineteen ninety seven, the residents had actually been 610 00:46:37.760 --> 00:46:43.360 a halfway house for convicted juvenile offenders who had violated their probation, but neither 611 00:46:43.480 --> 00:46:46.159 Christened, her family, or anyone in law enforcement was aware of this at 612 00:46:46.159 --> 00:46:52.599 the time, and it was Dennis Mann who originally learned this information while canvassing 613 00:46:52.599 --> 00:46:57.719 the neighborhood. When Christian's parents agreed to provide samples of their DNA to doctor 614 00:46:57.800 --> 00:47:01.239 Voss for testing, the results were cowartedly matched the DNA that was found within 615 00:47:01.320 --> 00:47:08.199 these human decomposition chemicals. Felicia Aysthorpe, the public information officer for the Oakland 616 00:47:08.280 --> 00:47:14.519 PD, would later confirm that since doctor Voss was using relatively new technology, 617 00:47:15.159 --> 00:47:17.880 the results of his findings would have to be delivered directly to the police for 618 00:47:19.000 --> 00:47:25.400 scientific and independent verification. She stated, quote at this time, the information 619 00:47:25.519 --> 00:47:30.360 we need from doctor Voss to collect the samples for human decomposition testing has not 620 00:47:30.480 --> 00:47:37.159 been forwarded to the department. Additionally, no information regarding the more recent blood 621 00:47:37.159 --> 00:47:42.760 testing conducted on the porch has been disclosed to the department end quote. Both 622 00:47:42.800 --> 00:47:47.960 doctor Voss and Paul Dosty have denied this and the claim that Oakland PD had 623 00:47:49.079 --> 00:47:52.559 enough has enough data about the findings to perform their own search of the site, 624 00:47:52.880 --> 00:47:57.679 and they also believed that Christian's body may have been there at some point 625 00:47:57.920 --> 00:48:04.280 before it was transported away. Around the twentieth anniversary of Christen's disappearance, KGO 626 00:48:04.440 --> 00:48:08.639 TV decided to produce a new segment about the case and managed to track down 627 00:48:08.760 --> 00:48:14.440 Jill Lampou, who had long since broken up with John and Numa. They 628 00:48:14.519 --> 00:48:17.079 convinced her to do an interview, though she kept her face off camera, 629 00:48:17.679 --> 00:48:22.880 and Lampeau continued to deny any involvement, claiming that she had an alibi placing 630 00:48:22.880 --> 00:48:28.280 her at a library on the date that Kristin went missing. John and Numa 631 00:48:28.360 --> 00:48:32.519 also agreed to provide comment for the segment and continued to deny his own involvement 632 00:48:32.559 --> 00:48:37.079 as well, though investigators still consider Oduma to be a person of interest. 633 00:48:38.079 --> 00:48:45.079 Sadly, Bob Mordiferi passed away of leukemia during the spring of twenty twenty two 634 00:48:45.119 --> 00:48:49.840 without receiving any answers of what would happen to his daughter. So after twenty 635 00:48:49.880 --> 00:48:54.159 seven years, there are still no conclusive answers about what actually happened to Christian 636 00:48:54.159 --> 00:49:00.719 Modiferi. So I guess you could say the path went chilly. Here's what's 637 00:49:00.760 --> 00:49:05.559 so difficult about all these different experts and parties being involved in an investigation from 638 00:49:05.599 --> 00:49:10.360 a private perspective. Private experts and people that are hired as private investigators and 639 00:49:10.400 --> 00:49:15.039 these kinds of things, they don't have to operate under the same rules as 640 00:49:15.119 --> 00:49:19.719 law enforcement or the same standards that our criminal justice system sets for evidence being 641 00:49:19.760 --> 00:49:23.639 allowed into the court system. And so I would be just like Kristen's parents, 642 00:49:23.719 --> 00:49:28.199 I'd beg any human being with a breath in their lungs that's willing to 643 00:49:28.239 --> 00:49:31.960 help me, come help me, and any technology or resource I can pay 644 00:49:32.000 --> 00:49:37.320 to have in this investigation. I will pay for it because I need to 645 00:49:37.400 --> 00:49:42.000 have answers in her case. But it definitely complicates the case. I think 646 00:49:42.039 --> 00:49:46.480 for families, it puts a lot of emotional weight on the investigation for them 647 00:49:46.920 --> 00:49:53.079 because they're getting this help from outside experts, and those outside experts don't have 648 00:49:53.159 --> 00:49:58.960 to follow the same protocol and don't always watch what they share with the family. 649 00:50:00.079 --> 00:50:04.960 So when they're sharing this kind of promising information and saying, I know 650 00:50:05.119 --> 00:50:07.800 that her body was here, We've smelled, you know, the dogs smelled 651 00:50:07.920 --> 00:50:14.679 her decomposing here, there's DNA that matches, and then the police are saying 652 00:50:15.159 --> 00:50:17.400 we can't go off any of this, we don't have enough information to go 653 00:50:17.480 --> 00:50:22.079 off of this. There becomes this resentment and emotional distress of saying, why 654 00:50:22.079 --> 00:50:27.760 aren't you doing anything for us? But it's such a different ballgame the private 655 00:50:27.760 --> 00:50:31.840 individuals working and being hired by the family and working on behalf of the family 656 00:50:32.199 --> 00:50:37.039 and an investigator who's trying to make sure they have a flawless case if they 657 00:50:37.079 --> 00:50:43.679 have one, And so it's actually heartbreaking because the family gets this information that 658 00:50:44.199 --> 00:50:46.679 looks like you have to be able to prove the next steps for us because 659 00:50:46.840 --> 00:50:51.480 this expert told us X, Y and Z, and the police often have 660 00:50:51.519 --> 00:50:54.559 their hands tied in those situations. So as much as I would be just 661 00:50:54.679 --> 00:50:59.960 like her parents and say give me everything that we know and tell me everything, 662 00:51:00.360 --> 00:51:05.960 you do have individuals that aren't always as experts as they claim to be, 663 00:51:06.480 --> 00:51:09.519 aren't as well versed as they say they are, use technology that may 664 00:51:09.519 --> 00:51:13.880 not be reliable, and then other times you get blessed and you have these 665 00:51:13.920 --> 00:51:16.679 miracle workers who solve the case for the police. So it's kind of a 666 00:51:16.719 --> 00:51:22.639 crapshoot of like, what are you getting when these experts come in and investigate. 667 00:51:22.840 --> 00:51:24.960 I know for a fact you're getting a lot of emotional distress because of 668 00:51:25.000 --> 00:51:31.360 promises made or information that seems so promising and it goes nowhere. Well, 669 00:51:31.400 --> 00:51:35.840 I didn't know this at the time I recorded my original Trail Cold episode, 670 00:51:35.840 --> 00:51:38.800 but I've since learned a bit more about Arvid Boss, the one who's finding 671 00:51:38.880 --> 00:51:43.440 all this new stuff at the home, and apparently he had once put forward 672 00:51:43.480 --> 00:51:45.920 a proposal to search out human remains with the use of a fly with a 673 00:51:46.039 --> 00:51:51.840 tracking chips. So I don't know if he's the most scientifically reliable person. 674 00:51:52.039 --> 00:51:55.679 So I'm more understanding now about why the police were reluctant to accept his findings 675 00:51:57.000 --> 00:52:00.760 and why they would want to find more evidence before they launched a dig at 676 00:52:00.760 --> 00:52:05.960 that house. Can you imagine being the mom and dad who are getting that 677 00:52:06.039 --> 00:52:09.960 information though, Like someone who says, oh, I'm a private investigator, 678 00:52:10.039 --> 00:52:15.559 Oh I'm a you know, a human remains expert, I'm this and that, 679 00:52:15.239 --> 00:52:21.239 and then they tell you something so promising, it's got to be just 680 00:52:21.400 --> 00:52:25.440 absolutely devastating for them. So it's to me it's a very fine line of 681 00:52:27.000 --> 00:52:30.760 you work these cases as literally, like I said, a hero and someone 682 00:52:30.800 --> 00:52:32.800 who says, I don't have to walk the same lines as police and I 683 00:52:32.840 --> 00:52:37.199 can help solve this case. And then I think you do have people just 684 00:52:37.239 --> 00:52:39.159 like you have in psychic realms and all these other things. There's I think, 685 00:52:39.239 --> 00:52:44.280 legitimate people with gifts and passions, and then there's people who see it 686 00:52:44.280 --> 00:52:46.719 as a way to kind of get attention to notoriety or take advantage of people 687 00:52:46.800 --> 00:52:52.679 financially. And so that actually makes me very angry. When I think about 688 00:52:52.719 --> 00:52:55.320 the fact that you're talking about flies with microchips, I'm I don't know, 689 00:52:55.840 --> 00:53:00.119 very very frustrating, and I just read one more thing about bass he claims 690 00:53:00.159 --> 00:53:06.159 to have invented as applying for patents for a DNA frequency scanner device that can 691 00:53:06.159 --> 00:53:09.360 find missing persons from the air using a sample of a family member's DNA. 692 00:53:10.079 --> 00:53:14.840 Oh boy, very sketchy. Yeah, I mean, these poor people are 693 00:53:14.880 --> 00:53:20.400 probably paying him or hanging their hat on every word he says. I think 694 00:53:20.440 --> 00:53:24.440 it's cruel and abusive if that, if that really is the case. So 695 00:53:24.599 --> 00:53:30.679 Kristin Motaferi's disappearance is a particularly frustrating one because there are a number of intriguing 696 00:53:30.760 --> 00:53:34.679 leads, but there are times when they almost seem to contradict one another. 697 00:53:35.280 --> 00:53:39.000 For instance, even though we have police bloodhounds tracking kristen scent to the shoreline 698 00:53:39.039 --> 00:53:44.280 of the Pacific Ocean in San Francisco, we have a cadaver dog who has 699 00:53:44.320 --> 00:53:49.000 detected the scent of human decomposition at the house she was staying at in Oakland, 700 00:53:49.239 --> 00:53:52.559 which is several miles in the opposite direction. We have a promising potential 701 00:53:52.599 --> 00:53:58.199 suspect named John Numa, who lived only a mile away from Kristen's workplace and 702 00:53:58.239 --> 00:54:01.639 has done a number of suspicious and terrible things, yet no direct evidence has 703 00:54:01.679 --> 00:54:06.320 ever been found. To prove that he ever met Kristin, let alone cause 704 00:54:06.400 --> 00:54:10.800 her disappearance. We also have Onuma's former girlfriend, Jill Lampo, who allegedly 705 00:54:10.840 --> 00:54:15.360 helped lure other women to Onuma for him to abuse. Yet the last reported 706 00:54:15.400 --> 00:54:21.079 sighting of Kristin places her with an unidentified blonde woman who does not seem to 707 00:54:21.119 --> 00:54:24.360 match Lampo's description. So how do you fit all the pieces of the puzzle 708 00:54:24.360 --> 00:54:28.880 together? Who is this blonde woman and how does she fit into things? 709 00:54:29.440 --> 00:54:34.199 Did Kristin actually travel to the shoreline of the Pacific Ocean If something happened to 710 00:54:34.280 --> 00:54:37.400 Kristin there, why is there evidence of a possible crime scene at the house 711 00:54:37.400 --> 00:54:42.800 in Oakland? If John o'numa harm Kristin, why would he take her body 712 00:54:42.840 --> 00:54:46.760 to that house, especially since he lived in downtown San Francisco. No matter 713 00:54:46.800 --> 00:54:51.239 which way you look at it, some of these leads have to be false. 714 00:54:51.599 --> 00:54:55.000 But what actually did happen to Kristin? Could her disappearance have been caused 715 00:54:55.000 --> 00:55:00.320 by an angle which hasn't even been explored yet. When it comes to Kristen 716 00:55:00.360 --> 00:55:04.280 Modeferi as a person, it doesn't sound like anyone had a bad thing to 717 00:55:04.280 --> 00:55:07.719 say about her as She was an incredibly bright young woman who excelled in school, 718 00:55:08.119 --> 00:55:13.000 which is why she graduated a year earlier than normal and got a four 719 00:55:13.079 --> 00:55:17.599 year scholarship at North Carolina State University. She also had no history of ever 720 00:55:17.679 --> 00:55:22.039 causing any trouble for her parents, which would probably explain why they allowed her 721 00:55:22.039 --> 00:55:27.039 to spend the summer alone in the San Francisco Bay Area even though she was 722 00:55:27.079 --> 00:55:30.440 barely eighteen. In other words, it seemed like she had done an awful 723 00:55:30.480 --> 00:55:36.360 lot to earn that trust. I also think it says something about Kristen's personality 724 00:55:36.719 --> 00:55:40.280 that when she applied for position at Spinelli's coffee shop, the manager found her 725 00:55:40.360 --> 00:55:45.840 to be so likable and enthusiastic that he immediately offered her a job, even 726 00:55:45.880 --> 00:55:50.039 though they were not even hiring at that time. Krista was technically only in 727 00:55:50.039 --> 00:55:52.880 the Bay Area for three weeks before she vanished, but it sounds like her 728 00:55:52.960 --> 00:55:59.000 daily routine was working the seven am to three pm shift at Spinelle's and spending 729 00:55:59.079 --> 00:56:01.760 the rest of the day explos or in San Francisco before returning to the house 730 00:56:01.800 --> 00:56:06.880 in Oakland. The day Kristen went missing was pretty much her last day of 731 00:56:06.920 --> 00:56:10.440 freedom before her classes at Berkeley started, so it sounds like she wanted one 732 00:56:10.519 --> 00:56:16.440 last adventure after her shift ended, but something happened. When I think about 733 00:56:16.519 --> 00:56:21.599 what happened in those last hours, I honestly think in my gut that the 734 00:56:21.800 --> 00:56:27.079 hit at the beach was from the twenty first, not the twenty third, 735 00:56:27.199 --> 00:56:30.119 That yes, she had been down there, which she had already confirmed with 736 00:56:30.159 --> 00:56:35.320 her roommates, and that when she know when they hit down at the beach 737 00:56:35.440 --> 00:56:38.639 for her scent, it's because she had in fact been there, just not 738 00:56:38.800 --> 00:56:44.400 the night that she went missing. And so for me, I don't really 739 00:56:44.440 --> 00:56:50.159 think the hit at the house or the hit at the beach necessarily tie anything 740 00:56:50.239 --> 00:56:53.079 to her disappearance. I think the house hit is more or less going to 741 00:56:53.119 --> 00:56:59.079 be smoking mirrors and false promises to the family, and I think that the 742 00:56:59.119 --> 00:57:02.679 beach hit would be to that earlier party that she went to. So there 743 00:57:02.760 --> 00:57:08.159 is a very big possibility that, like you said, John lived in downtown, 744 00:57:09.360 --> 00:57:13.280 that she never went to the beach, and she was never at her 745 00:57:13.320 --> 00:57:16.119 house the evening that she died. So yes, there's a lot of conflicting 746 00:57:16.159 --> 00:57:21.239 information, but when you think about the sources, I tend to discount a 747 00:57:21.239 --> 00:57:23.360 lot of the things that were said to have occurred at the house, and 748 00:57:23.480 --> 00:57:29.559 with John it's one of those just questions where you say, do you look 749 00:57:29.599 --> 00:57:32.679 at all the red flags and lump them together and say it's like a forest 750 00:57:32.760 --> 00:57:37.320 fire of facts, or do you have to just look at him as a 751 00:57:37.440 --> 00:57:40.599 very disturbed, sick individual that was obsessed with his case. It's very hard 752 00:57:40.599 --> 00:57:45.559 to distinguish those but I will tell you those women coming forward that he was 753 00:57:45.599 --> 00:57:51.679 an abusive, sexual, sadist type. That's very scary, especially when you 754 00:57:51.719 --> 00:57:55.800 couple it with the briefcase full of articles about the case and then ripping the 755 00:57:55.840 --> 00:58:00.000 stuff out of the day planner saying that it could get him into trouble. 756 00:58:00.639 --> 00:58:04.559 These things are just like huge, huge red flags. I mean, I 757 00:58:04.599 --> 00:58:07.840 agree with you, there's just something about all this stuff at the house that 758 00:58:07.000 --> 00:58:12.639 just doesn't ring as true to me as John O Numa does. And think 759 00:58:12.639 --> 00:58:16.599 about this, he is always willing to have his name in the spotlight. 760 00:58:16.639 --> 00:58:21.559 He's always willing to make a statement if you Okay, let's say I was 761 00:58:21.599 --> 00:58:25.440 an idiot at thirty six, way too old to be making big like life 762 00:58:27.079 --> 00:58:30.480 disasters like this. But if I made this anonymous tip at thirty six and 763 00:58:30.840 --> 00:58:36.079 try to destroy these people's lives and sent police on a wild goose chase and 764 00:58:36.280 --> 00:58:40.559 I wasn't arrested for something. I might slowly fade away from this case, 765 00:58:40.639 --> 00:58:45.960 but John can't. He's constantly Yes, I'll be on Inzlove Mysteries. Yes, 766 00:58:46.000 --> 00:58:51.039 I'll interview with the newspaper. Yes, I'll go on this show for 767 00:58:51.079 --> 00:58:53.960 the anniversary. All these things that he's saying, like, look at me, 768 00:58:54.559 --> 00:58:59.000 look at me. I got a private person hired for a lie detector 769 00:58:59.039 --> 00:59:04.199 test. It's it's like he needs the attention and he won't let it go, 770 00:59:04.800 --> 00:59:07.360 which a smart person would distance themselves. He has to be part of 771 00:59:07.400 --> 00:59:13.320 it. That's very concerning. So I think this would be a good time 772 00:59:13.360 --> 00:59:15.719 to bring it into part one. But join us next week as we present 773 00:59:15.840 --> 00:59:22.440 part two of our series about the disappearance of Kristen Modaferry. Robin, do 774 00:59:22.480 --> 00:59:24.000 you want to tell us a little bit about the Trail Went Cold Patreon? 775 00:59:24.760 --> 00:59:28.920 Yes, The Trail Cold Patreon has been around for three years now, and 776 00:59:28.960 --> 00:59:34.159 we offer these standard bonus features like early ad free episodes, and I also 777 00:59:34.199 --> 00:59:37.599 send out stickers and sign thank you cards to anyone who signs up with us 778 00:59:37.599 --> 00:59:43.360 on Patreon if you join our five dollars tier Tier two. We also offer 779 00:59:43.519 --> 00:59:47.320 monthly bonus episodes in which I talk about cases which are not featured on the 780 00:59:47.400 --> 00:59:52.199 Trail Went Cold's original feeds, so they're exclusive to Patreon, and if you 781 00:59:52.280 --> 00:59:55.480 join our highest tier tier free the ten dollar tier. One of the features 782 00:59:55.480 --> 01:00:01.119 we offer is a audio commentary track over classic episodes of UNSAWD Mysteries, where 783 01:00:01.119 --> 01:00:06.960 you can download an audio file and then boot up the original Unsolved Mysteries episode 784 01:00:07.000 --> 01:00:10.719 on Amazon Prime or YouTube and play it with my audio commentary playing in the 785 01:00:10.719 --> 01:00:15.039 background, where I just provide trivia and factoids about the cases featured in this 786 01:00:15.119 --> 01:00:20.480 episode. And incidentally, the very first episode that I did a commentary track 787 01:00:20.559 --> 01:00:23.440 over was the episode featuring this case. So if you want to download a 788 01:00:23.480 --> 01:00:28.760 commentary track in which I make more smart ass remarks about Jewel Kaylor, then 789 01:00:28.840 --> 01:00:30.760 be sure to join Tier three. So I want to let you know a 790 01:00:30.800 --> 01:00:35.920 little bit about the Jules and Nashty patreons. So there's early ad free episodes 791 01:00:35.960 --> 01:00:38.519 of the Path Went Chili. We've got our Path Went Chili mini's, which 792 01:00:38.559 --> 01:00:42.639 are always over an hour, so they're not very mini, but they're just 793 01:00:42.639 --> 01:00:45.199 too short to turn into a series, and we're really enjoying doing those, 794 01:00:45.280 --> 01:00:49.559 so we hope you'll check out those patreons. We'll link them in the show 795 01:00:49.599 --> 01:00:52.000 notes. So I want to thank you all for listening, and any chance 796 01:00:52.079 --> 01:00:55.280 you have to share us on social media with a friend or d rate and 797 01:00:55.320 --> 01:01:00.039 review is greatly appreciated. You can email us at the path Went Chili at 798 01:01:00.079 --> 01:01:04.000 gmail dot com. You can reach us on Twitter at the Pathwin. So 799 01:01:04.079 --> 01:01:07.039 until next time, be sure to bundle up because cold trails and chili pass 800 01:01:07.119 --> 01:01:12.559 call for warm clothing. Music by Paul Rich from the podcast Cold Callers Comedy