Welcome to you, Softcore History. Welcome back to softcore History. I'm your
host for the week, dam Rochester and I am joined as always by Rob
Fox and Jay Goldman. What's up boys? What is going on? It's
been so long since I've seen you. We did our Barbenheimer, Well we
didn't. We only had a half of Barbenheimer last night. We did the
important half. That's right. Yeah, historically significant when I watch a movie
about history, when you can watch a movie that makes history. I think
they both did pretty well in box office. Yeah, yeah, it was
dope movie. No spoilers. Oppenheimer's great. We're gonna give our review a
little bit on the Patreon this week, um to go along with the topic
of that episode. Patreon dot com slash softcore history. Yet that and every
week he get two additional episodes, one kind of a normal episode like this
and then a kind of more interactive listener episode, voice episodes, etc.
Huge catalog. It's all evergreen, so check it out. Five bucks a
month doesn't just get you, you know, two episodes a week or whatever.
It gets you to just say months worth of months and months worth of
content like mos content. Yes, and of course we have an entire catalog
on the main feed Spotify, Apple. Where have you listened to the podcast?
Go back and listen to some some episodes of like the Openhammer episode.
Yeah, yeah, you actually spoiled a lot of the movie for me with
that episode. To be honest, You're welcome. It's a good companion.
I would a good companion. But also a lot of things that weren't in
the movie. Yeah, no, there were. There were a couple of
moments that Rob got really excited about we thought would be in the movie and
it weren't. He was on a train. It was like they flirted with
it. They knew what they were doing. Yeah, because when that fact
guy walked in, I was like, Oh, he's gonna be the one.
Yeah, it's gonna be him. Nope, Nope. So go ahead,
listen to Oppenheimer episode. Listen to all of our episodes. Maybe not
the early ones, I don't know days, listen to all of them.
Today. We are Gonna Do It episode that I wrote, Well, I
was on mushrooms. I was gonna ask, did you stay up all night
to do this? I did. I was up till five and then the
British Open came on, Like I might as well stay up good lord.
So we saw the movie at ten thirty. It's a three hour movie.
I got home at like two fifteen in the morning. Yeah, I got
home at about two thirty because I dropped Dan off. Yeah yeah, so
I actually have no idea what this episode is about. Perfect, Yes,
surprise, do you too. It's a surprise to me as well. It's
the best way to do it. No one knows what the episode is on.
It could be nonsense. You are four one here for it's it's whatever
history. Yeah, I was on eighth of mushrooms last night. It could
also be the best episode ever do so, I might have to only write
episodes on mushrooms. I couldn't even tell you on mushrooms. Last I tell
you what man driving him home I completely forgot. I completely forgot. I
handle it well. His amount of mushrooms that he took is also insane.
For how no idea that he was on them. Yeah, I think everything
I've been like touching my car and like, you know, playing with lights
and stuff, because that's what I would do. The only thing I noticed
about you really was that you were more generous with your laughter than you are
sober. I don't care for that. Yeah, god, the compassion drug
you took. Yeah, because there is a part during Abenheimer where we were
like crying laughing. I don't usually see you laugh that hard. It's a
Remi Maloch part, yeah, rem Mello part. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
But apparently I wrote an episode about Hannibal Nice. I love that guy.
Yeah, so you wrote an episode about who you wish you were.
So you just essentially started you just were you just like on hallucinogenic drugs,
and you wanted to like do so much research on him that maybe you kind
of warped into him. He definitely spoke to him through the time. Yeah,
you're slid across time through a worm. Yes, Yes, I became
Hannibal Burrs. Well, you have to become a Hannibal to then interact with
the past Hannibal. Well, I mean you are already like Hannibal Burs in
some ways. You both have a sports gambling problem. Well, he quit
and I'm about to as well. I've heard that now he's made. I
had a last who were out with the British oupen So cann't go Well,
I mean but college football a couple of months. I don't need this,
there's no reason, it's pointless. It's gonna be the biggest temptation if you
quit this week and then you go a month essentially just a month, and
I just want to see if I can do it. That's yeah, I
hope you do. I might have a problem. I want to see if
I can do it with sports scambling is like, that's that's like saying I
want to see if I can stop doing cocaine, right, Like, yeah,
like, you know what, man, I really want to just see
if I can go a month without just banging filthy hors every night, just
paying twenty dollars, going downtown, going to Perkins and do an alley behind
a fucking wah wah and just banging the dirtiest hor Yeah, I can do
it. If only there was a wah wall here. Right, I don't
care about the horse. I wish there was a wahball here. But no,
we're talking about Hannibal Marca. Where this guy here? About this guy?
You know about this marka flocka flame dude? Exactly? Yeah, So
Hannibal was born in two forty seven BC. This might be the oldest episode.
I do too date. I know now, if I were you.
I would be like, well, you know, shoot Industree because you bitch
at me every time I do anything near China. You come, you come
at China, You're coming with me. Danna's just lockdown China apparently, China,
North Korea, and Rob's lockdown. I guess anything before one a D.
So that's most before like most fifteen, you know, not false.
So that's most of time, right, it's the large majority of time?
Is that? So He's born in two forty seven BC in Carthage which is
now Tunisia, as the Punic War was coming to an end, the First
Punic War, which was two sixty four to two forty one BC. I'll
tell you this, The BC going backwards just kind of messages with me,
right, like I understand the higher number is earlier, Yes, yeah,
how goes? They didn't count that way though, Like to them, it
wasn't that they weren't calling it BC because they didn't know what C was there,
Like they had two hundred and forty years until this Jesus guy gets here.
Somebody calls their shot. Yeah, you know, I think the Messiah
comes in like two hundred and fifty years, let's start calling it that.
Yeah, He was the son of General Hamilcar Barca, who waged a gorilla
campaign in Sicily and conducted successful raids against the Italian coast before ultimately the Carthaginians
were defeated in the war. A bit of a power struggling SUS with some
internal rebellions, and ultimately Hamilcar took power after squashing those revolts. It was
a very destabilizing situation for the Carthaginians. They were it was almost like,
um, like they were equal, if not actually, I mean they were
kind of the Romans were kind of the under dog in the first Punic War.
UM. Romans basically didn't have a navy, and yeah, the Carthaginians
were definitely this was before the Roman Republic was like that guy, Yeah,
this was so think of the Roman Republican in this era as like pre Civil
War United States. Totally. It's a great, great comparison. I think,
Um, Carthur just kind of they're like they're barometer there. Yeah,
Mark, I think there's a lot of similarities to um the Punic Wars and
and maybe like the Mexican War with the US had the US was a dog
in that too. Totally Civil War comparison, because I'd like to compare Hannibal
to Robert E. Lee, the most famous general never won anything. Yeah,
all right, spoiler, does your mount rushmore of generals who lost their
only war like the MVPs, of the guys that lost in the final It's
like Lee, Rommel, Hannibal, Jerry West. Yeah, Kyle Trusk not
there. Nobody's putting Kyle Trusk there. I am for what you didn't even
He wouldn't even plan for anything. Yeah, you guys lost like Oklahoma in
the Sugar Bowl or some shit. So good because he sat out. It's
so gey. So ultimately, Hamilcar took power after squashing those revolts in fortune
kind of a new empire in the Iberian Peninsula which is now modern Spain.
See. Nothing is known about Hannibal's mother other than she was most likely a
foreigner, as the folks in Carthage routinely, especially the nobles, routinely married
and fucked around with women of all their cultures. Yeah, I mean,
Carthage was like a huge trading empire. It started out as a Phoenician colony.
The Phoenicians were like dope sailors, so essentially people there's like like that
conspiracy theories, but like you know, Graham Hancock, what if someone got
to America before? Yeah, and people think the Phoenicians are a good candidate
to have sailed to the New World in ancient times in terms of just sailing
prow it's probably not. But if there was someone who could do it,
it was a Phoenicians. And yeah, so they had like a whole I
mean, they were a multicultural trading empire, more economically powerful than I think
militarily powerful. But their their entire culture was a pretty big schmortgae spoord too.
Like their architecture and stuff is really wild. Actually, if you go
back and like if you can find any because you know, Rome did a
pretty good job of making trut you couldn't. Yeah, but uh yeah from
description, it was very like all over the place. Phoenicians are sweet man,
by the way, if they if that sounds familiar to say, like
hooked on phonics, Yeah, because they invented the alphabet. That's all right,
phonics. Do you do hooked on phonics? Phonics? Monkey? Yeah,
there it is. That's hard one. No, I didn't do hooked
on phonics. I was a trailer kid, Rob, that's why it's so
hard for me to read? I know. That's why I asked if you
did hooked on phonics? They separated me from my classmates and shamed you into
reading better. Didn't work. Um, well, clearly you didn't pray hard
enough. It wasn't my Catholic school. Yes, yeah with me. I
I was bad at reading in first grade two and I just prayed, close
my eyes away. Yeah, I couldn't do that and just just said rosaries
until one day. JESU are just smart. Yeah, no problems, no
special trailer. He had two brothers that he knew of, has Drew Bull
and Mago, both of whom served as Hannibal's lieutenants in the Second Punic War.
Now I believe it's magoo, mister McGoo. It's McGoo. Yes,
that's the A lot of people don't know this. That's an ancient, powerful
name that has been bastardized by Hollywood. I don't know if it was bastardized,
if anything was elevated. Yeah, mister McGoo didn't ever take an ell
everything around him, did it? Always? It always came up. Magoo
always comes up McGoo. Hamilcar famously declared that his sons were a brood of
line cubs raised for Rome's destruction. Yeah, sure, whatever, my fuck
so hard, dude, there's some fuff. Oh he makes fun of that.
Now give him like six years when that first one starts playing sports,
well kill me. Yeah, he's like, God, what good? Fucking
crushed it, suckers. I actually think you should make your son do what
his dad did. He from the jump. He taught his sons to hate
the Romans with every fiber of their being. At nine Hannibals, Pops made
him dip his hand in blood and held it over a roast in fire to
swear an oath to never be a friend of Rome and one day get revenge
and take down the enemy that defeated his people. So you have to do
this with Kansas Kansans. Yeah no, I'll just do it with with the
city of Rome. Oh actually, yeah, you know you gotta find some
Roman blood, right? Why not? All the pope lives there. I
can't do that. Uh, well, it's not Rome, it's a Vatican
city. Yeah, that's true. I want him to. My Rory will
restore the Papal states to their former power. If there was every kid to
do it, I guess it's rory as long as he dresses like a Swiss
guard. Oh yeah, Oh, you gotta give m a little Swiss Guard
outfit. Let me google to see if you can just buy a baby a
toddler Swiss Guard outfit. Insane costume. But if that's his Halloween, there's
ever a religion to do. It's a Catholic charity. You know. There's
at least one in one spirit Halloween somewhere. Sarah sank the Halloween. Oh
what a sanct halloween. Oh man, I'm definitely finding children's Swiss Guard.
Oh man, I think I found toddler Swiss Guard. Oh nice, that's
awesome. Swiss scouts. Somebody's just like psychotic antsy store. It's like,
here's a little German trench coat. Hamilcard died in two twenty nine BC,
drowning in battle, and was succeeded by his son in law as Drubal,
also named as Drouble, who made the young Hannibal an officer in the In
the army, Hannibal could withstand extreme physical hardships and was moderate in his consumption
of food and drink. The harsh reality was he spent almost the entirety of
his life at war or in exile. Yeah, that happens when you're at
war a lot, and when your dad makes you swear a blood oath to
fucking hate. I've never heard of a blood oath either, where you dip
your hand in blood and then boil it off. That's pretty sick. That's
I've never heard of, like a blood oath with someone else's blood. Yeah,
who's blood? It was the Romans. Roman boy, just some Roman
prisoners, some poor bastard, likely merchant who just a messenger. Everybody being
a wheat report and they're like, hold on, I'm pretty drunk, and
I think my eight year old needs to, you know, swear fealty.
Little anti Roman bar mitzvah. Hannibal adapted accordingly to this war obsessed culture,
as Carthage had a habit of crucifying defeated generals. So I was like,
hey, you can win, or we'll kill you. Yeah, I mean,
I guess that might be effective. Is it lose a battler, lose
the war? Which one is it? If it's lose a battle, they're
fucked unplaced immediately. Yeah, I don't think. I don't think it could
possibly be battle. Well, his dad was a general in the First Penick
War. Yeah, it wasn't losing much. He was actually winning his battles,
but as a whole, his team loss. Okay, so he wasn't
crucified, right. You know it's like the battle, the offense is putting
up points, but the defense just can't get a stop type of situation.
Now the offensive coordinator's fault. Um. It's funny that they're a war obsess
culture because their units sucking. Rome Total War suck even with the elephants.
Yeah, it's just their infantry is terrible. It's just it's just not a
good not a good kid, not a good tool kid bear. Perhaps the
people that made that game were pro Roman. Probably it is Rome Total War.
Yeah, maybe biased, maybe biased. Do you ever think about that?
You know that he was notorious for his savage behavior and fearless nature.
Story of Hannibal walking through trenches filled with blood and declaring what a beautiful sight
are numerous? What classic? Who filled the trenches with blood? He did?
Soldier blood, there's soldier blood. Okay, who dug the trench?
Soldier blood? Tell him, well, that's it was fighting trenches. Then't
you spill the blood in him? I think there's a lot of trench warfare
in two forty or whatever. It was probably like a mild mess. Yeah,
on a sidewalk, he's just like, ah, basically he's like,
I love the smell and a palm in the morning. Yeah, it's that
fucking turd. By the way, did you just hear about the I think
like that. The fact that Alexander and Troy both bombed essentially killed the It
was like in development forever. But the Vin Diesel Hannibal movie, there was
gonna be a Vin Diesel Hannibal movie, and we were robbed of that,
is Hannibal. Yeah, we were robbed of that because those two happened.
No, damn it, those two and Kingdom of Heaven didn't do very well,
even though Kingdom of Heaven's a dope movie, and uh yeah, so
that they kind of scrapped up. Who would you cast for Hannibal? Now,
I mean they would probably they throw the rock in there. No,
he's too old. Look, am I answer to any question like that?
As Timothy Shawbe. That makes sense. He plays all the parts because he
looks like a Roman noble. Yeah, yeah, but he's not putting on
muscle, doesn't need to shave his head. He inspired breathtaking loyalty and extraordinary
obedience among his troops, which included his people as well as mercenaries recruited from
throughout the ancient Mediterranean. Sources recount how he slept on a military cloak,
eating the food of the common soldier and sharing their hardships. As a tactician.
He's regarded as a genius um of the first rank military leaders to the
to this day study Hannibals victories at the battles of Trebia, Trasimine, and
Canny See Kane is is like like big one. That's the one day,
Yeah, where he just absolutely obliterated the Roman arm didn't matter. The Romans
were just like, all right, well, let's get another fifty thousand.
Man usually works. Yeah, that's fine. I'm one throw abouties. It's
like the Germans just like obliterating the Soviets in World War Two. They're like,
all right, well, get another five hundred thousand up here, let's
go. In two twenty one BC, his brother in law was assassinated and
the army chose the twenty six year old Hannibal to command Carthage's empire in Spain.
A pivotal point in Hannibal's development came in two nineteen BC, when he
led an attack on uh sag on Um, an independent city in the middle
of eastern Spanish coast. I forget how to say that city. It's in
Rome. Total war. I've conquered it many times. I feel like,
yeah, being an independent city state is probably not a good move. If
not long it's the time of entire Yeah, it's not sustainable long term.
No, it's like someone's going to come in and just it's yeah, sagentum.
Yeah, I think that's it. Uh sign Siguntum, that's actually it.
I think that sounds I'm just saying different ways. This broke the Treaty
of the First Punic War, as this city was allied with Rome and they
saw Hannibal's attack as an act of war. He besieged Seguntum for eight months
before the city fell. Damn. Eight months is a long siege. Yeah,
but I mean he just didn't want an attack. Yeah, I mean
I get it, like I get not a Yeah, a siege. It's
better if you're the one sieging, yeah for sure. Yeah, but it's
still long, like you got weighted out. Yeah. But you have supply
lines at least, I guess it's long for the city. That's a long
time to just hold out. I think that that's probably why they were an
independent city state, because nobody wanted to fucking do it for eight months.
Yeah, the Romans delivered an ultimatum to Hannibal, either he surrendered his forces
to them or there would be war. Hannibal refused to yield, and the
Romans carried out their threat. This saw the outbreak of the Second Punic War,
leaving his brother also named has Drouble to protect Carthage's I'm trist in Spain
in North Africa. I'm gonna stop you real quick. Yeah. You know
when people bitch about Game of Thrones and all the names sound and the same,
oh, because that's how history was. They didn't have like a bunch
of names. Everyone was fucking George Foreman. Yeah. It was like everyone
in France was named Louis or Philip almost everyone. Like, yeah, the
kings, they really do cut like they really are like three different king names
in French history. It's not it's not a lot. Yeah, no,
it's absurd. So anytime someone's like, oh, hey, like why is
everyone named uh, Tyrian or Marian No, no, no, it's like
that's literally how they did names back. I feel like they complain about the
uh, what's Calisi's family and the targe Arians. Oh, the Targarians.
Yeah, especially in the new show. Yeah, yeah, but that's what.
Yeah, that's what they did. They know, they just it's they
would like they would fuck they're relatives. Why is it surprising that they would
keep the same name games, They're keeping their genitals in the family, why
would they change names? Yeah, Hannibals. Nuity assembled a massive army with
ninety thousand infantry, twelve thousand cavalry and nearly forty elephants. The more that
followed, which covered some one thousand miles through the Pyrenees, across the Roan
River and snow capped Alps. So he went over two major mountain ranges,
the Pyrenees or what's between France and Spain and a river? Yeah. Did
you stick to the coast? Did you stick to the Cote de Zoo France?
The Alps were the problem, right, well right, elephants not great,
typically not rolling around in southern Europe. The passes he used were narrow
and awkward, presented considerable dangers to Hannibal's men and their elephants. The weather
was often against them, with frequent blizzards as well as sudden landslides. Why
do you go in winter? Who knows? Maybe just camp yea on the
beach, though I can tell you why they just didn't camp. Once you
get the elephants out, you gotta feed the elephants. You can't wait around
with the elephants. You can go loot the landscape. I mean, so
at this point Rome was not I don't know what the Roman Empire or what
Roman republic Land was at that point. But also the Alps are always going
to be snow capped. I don't even snowcap. But if they're getting hit
with blizzards when they went west to east, they're going with elephants. Yeah,
how do you get the elephants there? Or like Tunisia up through Africa?
Whatever? Yeah? Okay, So they took him bottom up then left
or right? Okay, because Cartha Jargy control is part of Spain. Okay.
I was just curious because like I guess, yeah, elephants are Africa.
I always consider like elephants though too, and like, well he got
his elephants from India and Africa. Yeah, well I was like wondering how
the Indian elephants got there. Oh, just trade, I assume, Yeah,
that makes sense. On top of this, the tribes who inhabited the
mountain passes were generally hostile and sometimes watch attacks on hannibals men, probably because
they rolled a bunch of elephants through town. Demons. Yeah, actually just
tanks. You've never seen anything like that. Like, think about we talked
about all the time with the stupid which I forget which museum it is in
New York. Maybe just be the Natural History Museum where they have all those
stupid stuffed animals, like literally and it's like, but that used to be
incredible to people, right because that's all they could see, And that was
like a hundred years ago, one hundred and twenty years ago. So now
imagine a living one thousands of years right, two thousand plus years ago.
Yeah, that's mine. You don't even know that animal exists, yeah,
right, Like you don't even understand what you're looking like, imagine the biggest
animal you're probably dealing with in the Alps is like some sort of cat or
goat, maybe like a ram imagine we just walk outside, go into our
cars and there's some sort of like octopus with feet, like just walking by.
It's over. That's that's what those people were seeing. It's essentially a
dragon like actually, but no, it's even less conceivable than that. Octopus
with feet is a great example, like like what what fuck? What is
that? Kill it? There is no god that this has shattered my universe.
I mean a lot of people when they saw the elephants did kill themselves.
Fuck. Yeah, it's insane. It's so funny that you just like,
that's all it takes is context, Like st at some point in history
someone just saw an elephant was like, Nope, don't care. This is
beyond my comprehension. I don't want to find out anything more. Fucking God,
the world is filled with horrors unimaginable to me. So but again,
right now, if like a bunch of if if a Chinese army showed up
but they're riding octopuses with feet, I might just be like I gotta go.
Yeah, I'm gonna get beaked to death by that thing. With his
forces depleted by the harsh Alpine crossing, Hannibal KNT the Powerful Army of the
Roman general uh Pubilist Cornelius Scipio, Scipio just called Scipio on the plains west
of the Sequino River. Hannibal's calvary still prevailed and Sikibo was seriously wounded in
the battle. He was rescued by his son, also Scipio. I believe
so probably. Yeah. Late in two eighteen BC, they again defeated the
Romans on the left bank of Trebbia, a victory that earned Hannibal of the
support of allies, including the Gauls and Lugarians. And the Guls are just
the French trade basically. Yeah, yeah, they're they're they're just like the
it's like the ethnicity of that part of France. Yeah, they're just like
the gross barbarian French. Yeah. By the spring of two seventeen BC,
he had advanced to the Arno River, where, despite a victory at Lake
Trasimine, he declined to lead his exhaustive forces against Rome itself. So he's
picking off battles kind of outside of Rome, but he never actually attacks Rome
because they put all their money resources into protecting Rome. Makes sense defense,
Yeah, And also like this is not you're thinking like Gladiate you guys are
thinking of like Gladiator Rome probably, like that's not what this is. Gladiator
or even Rome from the show we watch Rome that's for two hundred years after
this and Gladiators three hundred and fifty years after this. Room doesn't start becoming
room until after this war. Yes, this is this is again. I
think that the Pano Corps are basically the Mexican War for the United States,
Like this is the war that puts them on the superpower path or the wars?
Is this the is this when I'm gonna mess up my timeline here,
But like Caesar crossing the Rubicon? Is that post this war? Yes,
that's that's a couple hundred years. Yeah, it's closer to zero, right,
that's like one hundred and fifty years. Yeah, I think it's like
forty fifty BC something like. Okay, yeah, my timeline it's really bad
on that. But no, I mean it's the thing before the thing.
Then the second January ten forty nine DC. Okay crosses Rubicon the diets cast
Yes. In the summer of two sixteen DC, sixteen Roman legions close to
eighty thousand soldiers, an army said to be twice the size of Hannibals confronted
his men near the town of Kanne. Yeah, its most famous battle.
This was his just like masterpiece. I mean, just he can just say
what happens, it's it's he just fucked them up. While the Roman general
Verro massed his infantry in the center with the cavalry on each wing, a
classic military formation, Hannibal maintained a relatively weak center but strong infantry and cavalry
forces on the flanks. When the Romans advanced, his men were able to
hold their center and win the struggle at the sides, enveloping the enemy and
cutting off the possibility of retreat by sending a cavalry charge across the rear.
Yeah, completely encircled the Romans. Yeah. So was this in a narrow
passer like an open field? I believe it was an open field for that
much maneuvering. And now if you want to cut backward, yeah, you
have to be as relative. So this is a battle of the bastards,
I guess, I mean. But also the trailer for Napoleon as well.
Yeah, so Napoleon kind of does a similar thing, not well, not
really similar at Australitz, but he definitely, He definitely. Australitz is his
masterpiece, and it involves him kind of deaking out the Austrians and Russians,
but in a not quite same way. But yeah, yeah, that's and
he fucks them up. But the but Hannibal fucks the Romans not even worse
here. The Roman defeat at Cane has done much of southern Italy, and
many of Rome's allies and colonies defected to Hannibal's side. I mean they lost
the whole army. It was like wiped out, Like there weren't he killed.
Like how big was the army? He's an eighty thousand, I mean
he killed almost all of them. Damn he's outmatched that much. Yeah,
that's wild. Everything is though, like with these battles, any battle like
this, it's I really don't The numbers don't. I mean, the numbers
matter, but like once something breaks in the line, the numbers don't matter
anymore. Yeah, because you're just It's like because then it's like you're there,
You're totally vulnerable, and everybody's panicking and a lot of the Romans soldier
died like basically trampling each other just trying to move. Yeah, yikes.
Yeah, a fucking nightmare under the leadership of CBO son in law also named
Cbo. You know, they get nine months to name these fucking kids,
and they just keep popping up from the start. Yeah, it's Scipio from
day one. Yeah, look, I name my kid, Robert Edward Fox
the Fourth. That's true, that's true. It's like, man, there's
a lot of just Seppi's around here, a lot of Scipios and fellow general
Quintus Fabius Maximus. The Romans soon rallied in southern Italy. Fabius used cautious
tactics to gradually push back against Hannibal's forces. This is called the Fabian strategy
and had regained a considerable amount of ground by two o nine BC, which
is immortalized in the thirty Rock episode. The Fabian strategy essentially, keep withdrawing,
keep withdrawing, keep withdrawing until you find ground you want to fight on,
and then engage the enemy. What was the context of the thirty Rock
episode, though, Jack kept like essentially delaying making a decision with his then
wife. Yes, she would make a mistake, right, so he could
have Yeah, yeah, the war or something like the paint color you wanted.
Yeah, and they started a strategize to go against Hannibal's forces that weren't
led by Hannibal, right, good, pick off the others, keep him
busy and pick off the other armies. Yeah, slowly, meticulous, let
him chase you and then pick off everybody else. Yep. Yeah, So
Roman forces defeated an army of rein Horseman's led by Hannibal's brother Um, who
had crossed the opps in an attempt to come to Hannibal's aid. Meanwhile,
the younger CPO drew on Rome's seemingly inexcusable supply of manpower. Too exhaustible.
Yeah, no, it was inexcusable. It's excusable. Too many goddamn men
round, too many dudes here, guy, I wrote this when I was
high. So yeah, honestly, so far, so far, so good.
Impressed. Yeah, mine would be like I would go on the biggest
tangent on one thing and that would be an hour. Yeah. Yeah,
I need to try mushrooms now, by the way. That's like I don't
there's no drugs I really want to do anymore. I don't even do well
on weed, to be honest, um, But like I kind of want
to try some shrimps. I want to do like just a micro does don't
it? Just? You know, for to nine pieces of chocolate? I
did ten, yeah, forty nine. I don't mind range. You don't
want to you want to go. You want to get like a full mushroom
experience, So like, no, I want to start with the micro.
I just really want the energy. Sounds like one to seven shots of ever
Clear. It is nice, yeah, yeah, and every but everything's kind
of elevated. So when we're at the bar last night, I could hear
everyone's conversation. You know, I wasn't keen into any of the fact that
you did mushrooms. You're like, yeah, I can hear everyone's individual conversations,
like I certainly cannot. It's just loud bands on fucking like bionic man.
Shit. I felt like a phone operator in the twenties. All right,
oh hold please, I kept forgetting you were high, to be honest,
Yeah, no, because you weren't being weird. Yeah I'm usually not.
Yeah. Great. Meanwhile, the younger CPO drew on rome seemingly inexhaustible
supply of manpower to launch an attack on New Carthage. I don't know where
they got these people from. To be quite honest, where all these dudes
come from? They won't Row wasn't that big. I mean it was formed
aformable power, like it was. They weren't nothing, but they, like
I said, they were dogs even though they won the first Well maybe they
weren't dogs after the first because they won the first one. But like quick,
the quickly the lie betting went, they were dogs in the lie bet
pretty quick, you know what I mean? Dan, Did you just google
where all the dudes come from? In Rome? Apparently? Rome? Well,
bro, it's a big city. Yeah, big city, fair enough.
Yeah, I don't know if it was like, you know, a
million people yet, like it was tight, but there was a baby boom
after the first pedich War. Yeah, everyone fucked was real excited. Yeah.
The following year, Hannibal met CBO's forces on the battlefield near Zama in
Africa, some one hundred and twenty kilometers from Carthage. The Roman cavalry won
an early victory and because standard Roman tactics for limiting the effectiveness of the war
elephants were successful, which was playing trumpets to frighten the elephants into running into
their own lines. Yeah. So here's the thing about animals, right,
no matter what, you can scare them, can scare them a little.
Yeah, whether it's lighting a pig on fire and send it at him,
or you wonder who was the first one to play a trumpet and be like,
oh it works, dude, what a heat check that was? Like
yo, yo, check it out, drummer boy bugle man. I was
useless, Yeah you want. I wonder if there's ever just like a Marty
grad in New Orleans where they had a trump fucking elephant in the parade and
then some blues guys puts a bucket down on the corner, you know,
he takes a trumpet out, just comes out and all of sudden like he
just was like you know, like blows it real quick, and someone's like,
yeah, Rob, it's just like and then you know, cut two.
It was Marti Gral Massacre of nineteen twenty nine. Everyone knows that one.
That was the real black Teas. Yeah. I guess it's because a
trumpet sounds like an elephant in distress more than you know, like that kind
of shit. So think about if there's an instrument someone came out and played
it was just human screams. It's just like, yeah, like someone puts
it to their lips and all of a sudden you just hear like what,
oh my god. Yeah, that's what the aliens are gonna come down here.
Let's play a two and four you ages. Yeah, they put like
a flute in their asshole or whatever, like a hole on the back side.
It sounds like the pits of hell. Yeah, it would scare me.
And you know what that would be the the US Army's mistake for riding
me into battle. Yeah, don't ride me in there, man. What
would be America's elephant, wild boar, giant boars, gators, gators,
maybe riding in on a gator. That's that's Florida, the Florida Cavalies.
Yeah, yeah, that's that's our navy. The gator back. Yeah,
it's like the sixty nine Florida Cavalry Regiment. Yeah, is riding gators.
I think overall maybe like a grizzly Yeah, grizzly grizzly bear. Gators.
Yeah, the gators would have to have a Salt Life sticker on them though,
yes, yeah, well yeah, well that's that would be the uh
the unit's nickname, the Salt life forrigade, salt life frigid. Yeah.
So with the help of Northern African allies, the Romans enveloped and smothered Hannibal
and his men, killing some twenty thousand soldiers at a loss of only fifteen
hundred of their own. I'm telling you what happened. It basical. What
happens is they keep they push up against each other until one side breaks,
and then aside the breaks, that's most of the casualties happened after the break,
I would imagine. So like it's it's recent out. Yeah, it's
essentially like, oh, I'm trying to think of it. Good own elephant.
Yeah, you threw a pick six. Something changes the mo Yep.
It's not like you're gonna take your elephant down. That's charging you. But
it's like, oh man, we still need it. That's my boy.
It's like, well, we gotta blow up this tank now, I guess
it's our tank. You know you don't want to do that. That's a
resource. Yeah, soone just blows a trump at your tank, starts freaking
out, whoa shooting the shooting your own man? And shit, I knew
we shouldn't give it. Shouldn't give this tank ai Ai tanks are afraid of
jazz, God damn it. In honor of this great victory, Scipio was
given the name Africanus. This is Scipio Africanus. Okay, that's yeah.
Why why are you surprised? Yeah, well you're doing no man, here's
on mushrooms. Dude, he's not. Now you don't know that. Shut
up yet, out of your dork the words fucking nerd? Who's Aprican?
I know how to pronounce words. Congratulate? Oh, I got really I
like the I mean and all the other contextual historical knowledge. But yeah,
I'm just I mean really like if we're really like being serious, I'm like
the man with one eye in the Land of the blind here, like I'm
not, oh now we're blind people. I'm sorry. I would think Hannibal
would like me better than you do. You want to do? You want
to bench off right now? The fact that you that you butcher Roman names
will probably he'd be like, I like this one. Yeah, he murders
their names like I murder them. Yeah he was becks them not at all.
Yes, well he pronounces their names horribly. The disrespect pleases me.
These are a mouthful okay, Sippio Africanus. Alright, but like in like
back to back, some of these words are yeah, sorry, my patriots,
this week is on. That's why the Imperial Japanese don't go past like
eighteen fifty. All right, Yeah, the names are just too weird.
Oh fuck with it. He's in the gym. He needs to be in
the Jimmy and Joe times. Mike malois yes. In the peace agreement that
ended the Second Punic War, Carthage was allowed to keep only its territory in
North Africa lost its overseas empire permanently. It was also forced to surrender its
fleet and pay your big words over there, doc. Yeah, yeah,
yeah, I hope you fucking die. Yeah. Okay, real quick.
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five dollars when you use the link. It was also forced to surrender its
fleet and pay a large amount of silver, and had to agree to never
again rearm or declare war without permission from Rome. Hannibal, who was skipped
with his life from the Russian defeat as Zama and still hybrid desire to defeat
Roma, retained his military title despite accusations that he had botched conduct of war.
I mean he lost. It seems like he lost a very winnable fight.
It makes sense to me that he didn't go after Rome right away.
But like Okay, yeah, you guys are exhausted. You know, they
just marched across half of France and over the Alps and a couple and then
you want a couple of battles. Okay, fine, you know, regroup
a little bit. But at some point again, like it does get dumb
that he chases Fabian instead of just goes after Roman makes Fabian fight him.
They played not to lose, not and he didn't play to win too conservative.
I mean, it really is like or even just chasing I don't know,
glory, like you want to keep winning battles, because that's kind of
the same argument that was going on around the Battle of Gettysburg. Right,
he was the second invasion of the North, and they're kept like, you
know, Longstreet didn't want to fight at Gettysburg. He was like, this
isn't we didn't choose this ground. We came here accidentally. Let's make a
tactical withdrawal, move towards Washington and make them fight us on ground that we
want to fight on. Right, because we get to choose because they're gonna
have to hit us if we go get on between them and Washington. Yeah,
that Hannibal could have done that too. He had total control of the
peninsula. He could have gone after Rome. Do you think it's a fear
of failure. No, it seems more like to me that he was chasing
blood, so just like kind of he wanted to just run up the score
before. Yeah, he drove it home and Kyle he was Kyle shanahanning right.
He's up twenty eight to three and he's still fucking passing the ball sack.
Yeah, can't do it. You can do it. Hannibals unsurprisingly had
a violent temper. There's an antidote from the aftermath of his defeat in the
Second Punic War that suggests that age and experience did little to soften his ir
ability. Well, look, when you're having the worst day of your and
most other people's lives, you're gonna get mad. Sometimes age won't matter.
When an Eric politicians spoke against the peace treaty and enraged, Hannibal physically assaulted
the speaker, dragging him from the podium. You'd kill him, I didn't
say, didn't say, Okay, maybe beat his ass. Yeah. Hannibal
later returned to the Senate and apologize for his conduct. That didn't sate,
by the way, not sign his unfamiliar with the customs of politics after a
lifetime spent in military service. It seems politics adjacent. Yeah, like,
if you were that high ranking in the military, you might slightly understand how
your country's making decisions. Yeah yeah, but maybe if you have a problem
with somebody, you just kind of handle it out. That's a that's a
also just a weird flex. Not a weird flex. It is a flex.
It's like, oh, sorry, I've been busy doing all this dirty
work. I didn't know I couldn't just do it in here too. He
was football when he shouldn't have football, essentially exactly, it's like if like,
well, I guess he can't, but um, it's like if John
Jones runs for president, right, is he American John Jones? Okay,
if John Jones runs for president and he's in the debate and he just gets
mad and just choke holds the other guy to sleep. Yeah, right,
Oh sorry, I didn't know that was not just like, it was not.
I didn't know. I couldn't do all of all the examples you could
have went with. John Jones has done a lot of them, and they
outside of him, and they mostly but mostly with his car okay, yeah,
yeah, and he's just in a he's just in a debate one day,
AOC or someone pisses him off, chokes her out. It's gonna be
yeah yeah, who was Yeah, either he's running as an independent, for
sure, would I would do that for an MMA five. I would vote
or contribute money, whatever, you whatever the threshold is to get on the
debate stage. If he's pulling at a certain percent, I would get into
whatever polling group I needed to to get that psychopath on the debate stage.
That and like just all of the fighting analogies. Yeah, it's like we're
gonna murder inflation, We're gonna fucking choke it. It like just you would
get so many fights, like because you know, every time a businessman is
like on the stage of the debate, it's like I would have run this
country like a business right, And it's like, oh cool, that's all
you talk about. Most profiders are pretty self controlled, like they know they
can kill you, that's true, and so they don't do it. Yeah,
they're just like there's also that's just a weird thing in general too,
the dudes that look for bigger dudes to fight, Like what what are you
guys doing you just got a small wiener at that point. Yeah, just
but I don't know, why are you trying to have a bad time.
There's just a hole in your body, in your soul that you can't fail.
Got fucking fights, man, Like they were funny in college, but
as soon as they started seeing them, and they were funny in college when
it wasn't you. Yeah, that's true. They're funny in college because it
was mostly unathletic white brad guys. It was Yeah, it was a kid
and sigma Kay and a kid, and I say, and they both had
little forty year old dad bodies already. Yeah, they were just kind of
limply swinging fist and may yeah maybe somebody yeah yeah, but yeah, when
it's like adults at a bar in a city, oh my god, the
family post twenty yeah, especially Austin. Everyone here trains, Yeah, I'm
sure. I mean, why would you between between the training and the guns,
why, I don't know why you would start a fight with anyone exactly
like one. Also, you take the wrong fall, you're dead. Yeah,
it's just stupid. So Hannibal enacted political and financial reforms to enable the
payment of the war immediately imposed by Rome. However, those reforms were unpopular
with members of the noble class. In Carthage, he volunteered to exile himself.
Yeah, he was just like final, fuck off, I don't care.
Rome was like Now, Rome though, was like op in the fucking
Mediterranean. They I mean again, this is literally like the Mexican American War,
like doubled their fucking value. But if Mexico pay does a lot of
money, they did, let give us Texas. No, we made them
pay us money too, Yeah, a lot, a lot of money.
Yeah, I'll look it up. But yeah, we made them. We
were like, we're taking your land and you're paying us money. I do
like that payoff. Oh no, actually I think no, I think it's
I think it's the opposite. I think we took their land and were like,
well, well, we'll reimburse them for it. But we gave them
like a laughably small amount. Yeah, I mean we took we took like
what at the time was probably worth billions of dollars and paid them like thirty
million for it or something. Yeah, I'll look at us pennies on the
dollar that even that, even pennies on the dollar would be a generous description.
During this time he lived at the Sealu side court, where he acted
as military advisor to uh Antichus the third Antiochus, Antiochus Antiochus and obviously the
Cellusid Empire. So that was one of them. I know all of this
from Rome total war. By the way, that was one of the the
king the breakoff kingdoms went after Alexander the Great died. Uh the other obviously
Ptolemaic Egypt was one salist An empire um and then there's like two. Well,
he loses the realm and Hannibal Fleet flees again, making a stop at
the Kingdom of Arbenia, suspicious that they were prepared to surrender him to the
Romans. Hannibal then fled to Crete. We paid Mexico fifteen million dollars for
all of that land. It's like stealing someone's like steak dinner from them and
being like here's a quarter. Yeah, here's a quarter, fuck you by
yourself. Something nice. He went back to uh Antolia and sought refuge with
Prussias of Bethenia. Anatolia is Turkey. He was in the h He was
in Turkey, who was engaged in warfare with Rome's ally of Pargament. Hannibal
went on to serve in this war. Actually, this is kind of one
of his uh notorious kind of tactics what he feels pots full of venomous snakes
and launches them at boats. Jope, that's good, that's a good tech.
He made it too long to do this. He should have been doing
that every battle, all the all the time. If I rolled up,
I'm like, we're gonna smoke these guys, and then a clay pot full
of snakes just hits the ground, Like god damn it. I know he
wasted this on essentially a mercenary job. I know. Yeah, well yeah,
well if man, that's such a bummer. Like imagine you're like a
show. You have your own show, your own TV show, and it
gets canceled after like one season or something like that, and then but you're
still employable and you go work at other shows as a staff rider or you
know, just a lower level of rider than you were on your own show,
and like you come up with like the best joke ever and it's for
somebody else's fucking right, or like our job. Yeah yeah, if you
if rob just throughout the best line you've ever had on drinking bros Like,
oh man, I kind of gave that, gave that to them many Yeah.
Also, just kudos to the Hannibal. He's like, elephant's too big,
snakes tiny. Yeah, we can fit a bunch of these gas.
I mean. So the whole thing is though, like you gotta like on
land, like you want to break the formation right, so you can just
route them. What's gonna break of formation better than a fucking big clay pot
of venomous snakes exploding in the middle of it. This is also again naval
naval battle. I know you're on a fucking boat and yeah, well the
elephants wouldn't work on boats. That's the whole reason he didn't use those.
Yeah. Yeah, I can't watch an elephant at him. Maybe, yeah,
you just maybe you break it down for parts. Anyway. I remember
the reason why I'm doing this episode is because I was looking at like we
saw Oppenheimer, and I was trying to look at like ancient weapons that were
like dope, yeah, and I came across the pot of snakes. Pot
of snakes is rat as It's very high up there for me, underutilized.
I would say we should do it now kind of is it against the Geneva
Convention. I would imagine so, but it's not. But it's kind of
like a loophole, is the Geneva Convention, Like if you didn't mention it,
then it's okay. Yeah, because if it's that, then yeah,
I'm sure it's fine. They probably weren't writing and like, all right,
let's go back through the animals of history and see the dumb shit everyone did.
We just start launching snakes a putin. Yeah, uh, there is
a protection of animals during warfare. Are snakes animals? I don't think so.
I think they're the devil, all of them. Yeah, they're they're
collectively the devil. Yeah, they're all there. They're all the devil's fingers.
I don't fuck with snakes at no. At Snaks are weird, man.
They don't have legs and they move around like that. It's unnatural.
His fate ended in the court of Bethemia. Hannibal discovered that the cast where
he was living was surrounded by Roman soldiers and he could not escape, so
he took poison. Some time between one ninety one eighty two BC. They
don't really have an official date on it. One eighty two. Yeah,
so there's like an eight year gap Jesus because he dies out of his country,
right right, right, Yeah, everyone's just kind of like, yeah,
he at some point in this period he stopped. And again most of
the sources for this are Roman sources, yep, always the case. Yeah,
Um, we know most of what we know about Carthage because of Rome.
Yeah. Because and it's again an interesting thing. They wanted to eliminate
Carthage from the map because it was their like crowning achievement. It's like we've
eviscerated our greatest enemy and it's kind of that like moment they can never get
back to after that, right, Like at least they're always chasing that high,
right, like the things that like people in the Roman Senate would talk
about it was like back when we won the Second Punic War, like it's
our World War two. Yeah, so it's like if it were back in
those times, we'd be better off. We're not men today like we were
during the Punic War exactly. And that was the sentiment, right, But
because of that, like it was this you can't have your cake and eat
it too, Like they couldn't let the memory of Carthage die because they wouldn't
have anything to talk about right either. So it's like it was actually kind
of weird, like if it weren't for like Rome's hubris and like insisting on
how great it was, we've been known nothing about Carthage. Yeah, I
mean, and they really it's crazy, like that was the last real major
power they kind of ever had to fuck with, other than like the Persians.
I think the acamended Empires that what it was. I can't remember.
I mean the Persians, but the Egyptians too to lesser degree washed. Yeah,
I mean they got fucked pretty hard. Like they were trying to Egypt
was trying to finesse a lot, and they just blew it. Yeah.
Egypt was a paper tiger at that point. Yeah, they were. They
had no shot. And to keep in mind, like Egypt's heyday was fifteen
hundred years before Rome showed up to take their land. And yeah, I
mean I would say, like, you know, we're talking to Talamaic Egypt,
right, like yeah, yeah, like it. But also somewhat Mark
Antony too was involved in that. Uh yeah, the Ptolemy, the Ptolemy
family still ruled Egypt at that point when Caesar got there because like, yeah,
I mean that was um it was Leopatra was, but they were still
by the time I think when Caesar got there, uh Ptolemaic, Egypt was
like, um, I was on his way, a client state of Rome.
Yeah it was. It was definitely vassal but but eventually, at least
maybe under Augustus or whatever, just became their territory full on, like it
was like this is part of Rome now, yeah, because they couldn't finesse
like a deal with Caesar same the same way, um where uh when um
fuck, when Jesus was born, Uh, Judea was a vassal state,
a client state of Rome. That's why King Herod was there. But by
the time, yeah, by the time Jesus was executed, I think it
was just full on Roman territory, or maybe maybe that was by seventy when
they when they destroyed the temple seventy eighty, then it became yeah, they
just became part of Rome full on. Well yeah, that's that Egypt becoming
a full on territory as with pretty much rapidized the full decline of Egypt and
why it wasn't like ever capable of getting back. Yeah, because like they
basically it's like, oh, hey, Rome needs bread, Now we make
bread. You're a Yeah, you're a fucking bakery. Yeah. Essentially that's
what they became. Yeah, Like it wasn't like, oh, we get
to prosper because we're like all the money business, all the money was in
the East. Yeah. Also, Rome had this high respect for Hannibal.
Um. He became such a figure of terror that whenever disaster threatened, Romans
would claim Hannibal at portous, Hannibal is at the gates to emphasize the gravity
of the emergency. The Romans even built statues of Hannibal in the streets of
Rome to advertise their defeat of such a worthy advisary. Exactly. That's just
pr dude. They have to keep that image alive. Yet when I yeah,
when I advocate for putting up statues of Hitler in the middle of every
town square in America, I'm a psycho, you monster. Yeah. No,
he has to be like crying though, or like about to blow his
head off. It's like we do like a full fund to head, cyanide
pill going in the mouth. Yeah, Like it's a diorama of a bunker
basically, just like going out in three different ways. So that is the
story of Hannibal Barkin. I believe that Romans also used him as a boogieman
for their kids. Yeah, like he would like they'd be like, oh,
Hannibal will get you if you don't eat your vegetables. Was he the
Attilla the hun before it's all of the hun? Yeah? Yeah. Because
like a fun question is like, who is Hitler before Hitler? I think
it was Attila, Hannibal, then Attila, then Genghis yeah, then um,
Napoleon, Napoleon. Yeah, oh the Turks, the Turks just in
general. Um yeah, any Turk, yes, any of them, all
Terks, you're Hitler? Um yeah, and then Napoleon and then took and
then it was and then Hitler and then Hitler. Yeah. Yeah. What
do you guys learn today? Um? You know, I learned about snakes
and pots. I know that's really the important thing. I learned that that
hand will Sometimes your best idea has come to you too late. Yeah,
think about it. You're on your deathbed and you like, think of the
best idea for a novel. Ever, Yeah, that's probably gonna happen to
one of us. But um yeah, that's like the Tyrant a boy wizard.
Shit, but you have Alzheimers, so you don't know. Yeah,
that's a good one, Grandpa. No, I think, um, that's
like the Tyrant equivalent of like when you think of an argument you had with
someone too late. Yeah, it's like, oh I should have said that.
Yeah, could have owned him. It's like the imaginary fight in the
shower. It's the jerk store. Yeah, from Seinfeld, who is today's
Hitler? Well, I think Hannibal was Hitler kind of from the perspective of
Rome. I said that already, But who in the story is Hitler?
Like, really, I don't know his shitty dad. Yeah, his dad's
pretty Hitler. Dip your head and tip your hand in blood. It's like
he's like a fucking failed athlete. That's like trying to make his kid be
like he's like, my child will go pro. Yeah, he's I'm gonna
say, anyone that played Rome total War, Yeah, that's a good one.
Anyone that could phonetically pronounce where it's Do you think there was anyone you
think you're better than me? That detinly? Do you think there's anyone Like
when they started marching the elephans is like guys, we can still turn back.
We don't have to do this. I really feel bad for um all
of Hannibal's supply officers. Yeah you know what I mean. Yeah, I
say amateur study tactics, professional study logistics, his logisticians, anyone that was
involved with feeding the army and shit like that. Those poor bastards. Yeah,
it's like, now we gotta feed all these dudes and giant devil.
Yeah, they were probably like quietly in their tent at night. They're like
another elephant fellow of a cliffland. I thank god, honestly, you have
no food now. Yeah, I hate to say it was how far down
can we get some meat? Yeah? Like I was about to say,
yeah, if he did drop an elephant, that's a lot of meat.
I wonder how elephant me tastes. Its gotta be gamy. People eat elephant
really a lot of fat? Dude? Is it? You can eat elephant?
For sure? I had you might get shot by people. I don't
think I would go after poachers, but I don't think I would want to
eat elephant if I had the opportunity. Yeah, and that's why you are
the way that you are. There's a lot of things I would eat that
are morally questionable. The bird, the whole bird, with the bunting,
Yes, with the little napkin over your head, I would do it,
the napkin of shame. Yes, because at a certain point someone's making that
bird. Either way, I'm not going to go out and seek the elephant.
The weirdest meat I've eaten is kangaroo. Yeah, kangaroo's weird. I
haven't had that, but I know they have it at Lonesome Dove. Sometimes
I had it in a sausage so you couldn't really tell. And honestly,
it's probably just like venison. Kangaroo are the deer of Australia. They're kind
of like the squirrels. Really, Yeah, which is weird. But a
deer that it'll square up with you. Yeah, the jack this deer you've
ever seen? Oh yeah? Vany biceps. That's all I got today.
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