Welcome to the Seafood Matters podcast. I'm your host, Jim Cowie. In
each episode will dive into the world of seafood and by chatting with fishermen,
fishery scientists and seafood chefs, will highlight the importance of seafood in our daily
lives, economy and environment. Whether you catch your own seafood, love cooking
it, or want to learn more about where your fish comes from, you'll
find it all here on the Seafood Matters Podcast. This episode features Kevin Dalgleish,
a renowned chef classically trained by the legendary Antony Edelman at the London Savoy.
He's also the chairman of the Scottish branch of the Royal Academy of Culinary
Arts, which I myself am a member of. After serving as head chef
at the prestigious Aguergil Tower in the far north of Scotland, Kevin took on
the role of executive chef at the Chester Hotel in Aberdeen, where he transformed
the culinary landscape with the signature food festival. He now owns Amused by Kevin
Dalgleish, where he specializes in modern international cuisine. Join me exploring seafood from
the perspective of one of our country's leading chefs with Kevin Dalgleish. This is
Seafood Matters Well, Kevin doll Gleish, Welcome to the Seafood Matters Podcast.
Thanks Jim. You're a Border lad and since I've known you, you've been
as far north in the country as you could possibly find yourself. You're now
on the east side of it. Where did it all start? Well,
obviously I started in Hoike, in the in the Borders, Queen of the
Borders as they call it. You know. I started when I was fifteen
sixteen and I got this little job in Hoyke called the Round the Ruse Bistro,
and I had a really good chef there, Ian Cunningham, who he
worked in the dort Chest and he'd been to London and so he always edging
me to go to London. So I got a part time job there with
a day release course in the Borders College and it already started from there.
Came from Hyke High School, obviously Rugby orientated. You know, I had
a chance to this job and I think I probably told it before Jim was
obviously Jim Telfer was the director and I had to say to him on a
Saturday morning to say that I had to give up my rugby career to give
a chance to work in the Randy rusbistro, which didn't go to down too
well. Must have been hugely influencing in your as a person anyway, because
I'm right and saying there's another well known rugby icon that you were in the
same school, So I mean yeah, I mean the other the other big
influence so in my cave was was Bill McLaren obviously one of the biggest commentaries
of all time in the rugby world. And I can mind have been in
London and you know he was in the on the he was commentating for the
Six Nations and I would say, oh, he was my pea teacher and
no one would believe me. You know. Jim Telford is your your your
wrector at the school and Bill mcclaran your pee teacher at the school. So
two massive influential guys at the high high school, which I think you always
take bits and pieces from everyone. I think in your life, what did
your what did you do as a child, I mean being brought up in
Hike, I think it was it was quite a lively town there, and
the mills were booming, you know. He had Pringle Leland, Scott Hay
Co all these you know, massive mills. So it was a great place
to be brought up, you know. And I did play rugby. I
like my dad was a great footballer. He liked football and obviously you know
Rangers was the kind of chosen team that gets handed handed down to you.
But you know I did like rugby. I played rugby until for the school
and the primary school, which was which was great. Then obviously you could
to think what you want to do there was there was no real rugby money
then. There was no money money and much sport perhaps from maybe football.
So you have to make a decision. And my decision was to take this
job at the rond of his bestro and you know from fifteen I started work
there. Yeah, so there was no chef chefing in your early days.
Well, I think my dad's brother, Ramsey, he had a few pubs
and hotels and Edinburgh so he had in the sixties he heard the Rotland Hotel,
which was quite influential because they always kind of started the kind of pub
trade, bar lunch trade, and that was the first kind of place,
or he used to say to me. He was one of the first guys
to start that because everyone was just drinking in those days. Food was just
a secondary thing. But so there was always that aspect of hospitality within the
family, although not my immediate family as such. Okay, and what did
your dad do in your mum? So, my dad was a policeman and
he was obviously at placement for thirty five years until he retired, which was
helpful at one point, but no so great in other points. But you
know, and my mum he just helped clean up the police station, so
it was it was quite a we live right next to the police station,
so it was quite a nice little place to live to be honest. Yeah.
Yeah. And is it London. You went from the Borders. Yeah,
I mean when I was nineteen, so i'd been at the end of
his beast for about four in about years, done a day release course,
as I said, at the hike the Borders College, and then I used
to write. I used to mind buying the you know, the caterer magazine
when it was used to be really thick and it's full of jobs. So
I used to I used to love logos. So I used to write away
to all these different hotels, not really no on coming from what they were
or who they were or what the what the stand for? And I wrote
away to maybe half a dozen hotels, and about two weeks later I got
this response from the Savoy in London. Obviously there's no email then, no
really mobile phones as such. Still get this nice letter back and it was
inviting me down for an interview in the Savoy in London along the Strand.
So I just went down for as a ford. The interview went down Stadia
for three days and then I was expected to go down get off a job
straight away. But the chef at the time, anton Ado, when he
says we'll get back to you, thinking oh no, totally totally screwed up
here, but right enough. A bit a week later, I've got a
letter asking if I wanted to start a Zavoy about three months later, which
was great, so but then reality kind of kicks anything. Well, christ
they go to go to London coming from Haike, so it asked where it
all started, to be honest, So he is, so, really you
started in the Savoy? Yeah, nineteen year old, walking down, walking
down? I can always remember I've got the trip the sleeper train from Carlisle
with two big cases, walk down, walk along. I can always remember
walking along the strand two cases. You know you can remember. I imagine
coming from Hayke. No really being in London or any city is going to
be apart from Edinburgh or Glasgow in your life. You think, Chris,
what I've done here? But you shouldn't get into it, you know,
once you start making friends and the first few months is hard, but once
you get into it, it's absolutely fine. It must have been hugely exciting.
Well walking in from a kitchen from three people to I think it was
eighty nine chefs. I think all the different sections at the Savoy and that's
just a the River restaurant, restaurant kitchen. It was certainly an eye opener.
And I can remember my first day because I know you're going to probably
ask me was you know you can imagine the Savoy kitchen is massive and they
all have the different you know sections to have the portar section, have the
sauce, they have the fish, they have the vegetable section, roast section,
pastry, you know, you name it, they've got it. Butchery.
So I was in the bed section for the first three months, and
the chef to party there to meet Kevin, go and get me a ladle.
So I just walked up to it's again section and grabbed a ladle.
Of course, the chift party on that section you grabbed me by the neck
tie because obviously you had to wear neckties on those days. It is get
your own effan ladle, and I went, ah, okay, And obviously
you know your first day you're getting threatened like that. You'll go oh.
So it's like Tim, I was like christ a better wise up here so
and he surely wise up quite quick. So when you say you're wise up,
what do you take the ladle? When he's not looking well, he
can't do that. He got to be any shop in the morning. But
I can remember I was there for around three or four months, and of
course I stayed in Camden Town. So you have to get up quite early
because you have to start at six in the morning. The ship, all
the chef the party started at six. So one day I thought I'll maybe
get wise and you know, I finished late and I went and got all
the puts and pans from the plan section and put them in the hit them
on and all the ovens in the red section. Of course, I came
in at half half six and all the rest of the guys were looking for
the rest of the pans. Of course I had hit them in all the
ovens, so I just pulled them out of the ovens and had all the
best pans, so I would allowed to do that again, and just in
case, I never came in the next again day. So yeah, you
just got to be wise. And I think, you know, people say
the what a bullying kitchens? But I think I'm quite sure that there was,
and I'm sure there still is. But I think it does that kind
of form of bullying. I think it does kind of sharpen you up and
wise up, and a lot of chefs just don't tolerate anymore. And I
think but I said the scene quite a lot. And did you go from
the Savoy to acle do it as ship? No? After the Savoy I
left. I was there for about three and a half years and I got
this job. I just I was just feeling I needed to leave London.
I wanted to get back only because I used to see all the great produce
coming in and we'll probably touch up later all the fantastic produce coming from Scotland
into the stores. You know that there was amazing smoked salmon. There was
all the salmon, you know, probably fish from you probably set down from
scrubs and at one but Jim, I'm quite sure. But you know,
seeing all this amazing produce coming from Scotland, and I says, maybe I
want to go back to Scotland and work closer to this produce. And that's
where I think my love of produce and local suppliers really kicked in because He's
seen this, you know, the teen great pride and source and produced at
the Savoy, and I think that really stuck with me throughout my career.
So I went to the west coast of Scotland and got a job at the
Marine Highland and Troon. So that's when I went after the Savoy probably and
I had another job lined up at the at the Pumpadoor restaurant with the Jeff
Bland at the time, but the money was no very great and you had
to live out as well, which in Edinburgh those days was expensive. When
he had one hundred and twenty pounds a week. So the Marine had offered
me slightly more and it was living, which was something more attractive. But
in hindsight, I should have played ten the Pompadoor Restaurant because they were obviously
you know, they were gunning from a Michelin star then. But the Minion
was great. I met with a great chef, Richard Sturgeon, who I
still keep in contact with, and he kind of put me through the pacis
there and it was great because it's funny because my first day, one of
the chepsy's oh where you came from us? I went the Savoy and they
went, oh, yeah, there's Avoy in Air. I went, no,
No, there's Avoy in London, so that they can a step back,
went over, what's this guy doing here? But it was it was
actually a great place to learn, and you know, I could relax a
bit better there and had good fun there. You know, it was good
for the leg who I've met with you Anton n Edelman. People like that
are almost iconic. There must be a fantastic influence on a guy's career.
Yeah, as I said earlierly, you know you take I think you spoke
you spoke about you know Bill mclar when you speak about Jim Telford, you
know, all these guys are you know, they're in the top of their
game. I would have thought, and I think you'd take a little bit
from each person in your life that you admire. And you know, Anthony
Leman was he was. He was a great motivator. He was obviously a
great chef. But Tom, you can remember eighty five chefs in that kitchen,
you know, and there's a lot of what I would say, egos
as such to try and control. So even to control that alone is is
a is amazing to do that, never mind putting a thousand meals out a
day. But then you get to the to the main it's think we had
about twenty chefs, Yeah, twenty five chefs, but you know, really
taking care of the food there. The food was you know, the budgets
were obviously different, but the produce was the same. We still got the
best stuff you could buy. And that was a trend throughout my life catering
life. I think it's you're always sourcing the best in greens and working kitchen.
I can give any advice to anyone working kitchens that take real pride in
sourcing the best best in greens. And people get confused with saying the best
must be the most ex so I don't mean that, I mean just the
best, getting close to the sources you can and try and source the best.
That doesn't have to be the most expensive. You know, as you're
all saying, that's great, it's good to have people influential, people who
can can influence your career. But at the end, after all that,
in fairness to yourself, Kevin, you've almost built that of yourself now.
And I see at that level and one of the things you mentioned we local
produce, I would have to take my I always have done since I've met
you, because I well, obviously when you worked at the at Agagol Tower,
I was well aware of the fact you would you could have gone anywhere
you wanted and negotiated a good price and been quite corporate as far as getting
suppliers to come down to a price that you wanted to pay. But I
would have to give you credit and say you always supported locals. Remember you
always got your beef local, and wick you always got your fish and scrabs
there. I used to think that was fantastic, considering the power you would
have had to get a really good deal off some of the bigger suppliers.
Yeah. I mean when I went to I could go, it was a
different, completely different place I've ever worked before. It was as you know,
it was an amazing place to work. And we had some great clients
there. We had you know, as you said, Vodaphone, we had
you know, Rose Royce, we had you know, the American hierarchy came
over, you know, anyone that it was. Anyone came to I could
Go Tower, but no one really knew better, which was probably one of
the best things. And we had to you know, these people were coming
from all over the world, so our food had to match up to any
of the restaurants that they would like to eat within that and in that scene.
And so I mean, and I said about local, and I bought
local for two reasons really, I think the most important one for me.
It was the best in the world anyway. You know, you look at
Keithness, They've got the best crab in the world. They've got the best
lobsters in the world. You know, the fish and shellfishes is the best
in the world. They've got game from berry Dale. He had the beef
from you know, they may select that used to get it was just Keithness
beef. You know, everything was in our doorsteps, So why would I
have to go out to the county to do anything but that it would have
been easier for me to get it from like a national supplier and get a
good deal. But you know why didn't need to do it, because they
were just buying it from Caithness. Enemies to go back. I can mind
the Sometimes some guy is saying to me that local hotels there, they'll buy
it from up called you know, a national supply company where they buy it
from Caithness. You'll go all the way down to Edinburgh. They come all
the way back up next again then and I thought, why would you do
that? But I mean, I think the producing Caithness alone. I mean
we still buy bits and pieces from Caithness even now and again, and I
even buy some stuff direct from Ortney which obviously scallops and we still use that
little beacher in Ortney which we buy bits and pieces from. But I think
if you but if you really like your suppliers, they look after you and
you can trust them. It's all building up trust. And you know that
don't send you the best of the can and they'll give you the best fair
price at the car and I think that's the really relationship really need to build
up. And after going from Savoy's, Darker Towers and things like that,
you must feel very proud. I have a huge respect for your career and
I think it's wonderful now that you've actually got your own restaurant. Can you
tell us about that? Yeah, I mean it's something I never even thought
about having because you know this year cost as you know yourself, but they
put something that together is just an endless pit at some points. But you
know, after coming to Aberdeen and working at the Chester for ten years,
I think it gave me a great platform. I think because you know,
we had a great restaurant at the Chester and we built a great clients at
the Chester and then obviously after COVID the change can attacked about it. So
that's what gave me the opportunity to do that and opened the door. So
I think anything of COVID. COVID kind of makes you think what you really
want to do in your life. I'm quite sure everyone's had those thoughts.
And this opportunity arose and I thought about it and then I said no,
no, I'm happy where I am, and then it came again, and
my wife Kerry says, well, you're only going to regret it because you
know you're going to do it at one point. So then I say,
well, there's nothing. I can always get all the job if it doesn't
work out. And here we are. We opened up the doors and the
first of July last year, so we've been opened that a year, five
four months and we've never looked back. It's been great, busy since day
one. And you know, Touchwood, we're going to continue to build on
that, which is you know, it's pleasing for me because it's always a
risk that it's going to fall flat in the face. But I think if
we just be honest with your customers and cook the food that they want and
you think that it's good, I think you shouldn't get a good reputation.
I can remember when I started with the Captain's Galley and you actually were my
mentor chef when I was in the college, and one of the things you
always told me just I think is a brilliant bit of advice. Cook.
Would you like Yeah? I think I think if you if you keep if
you keep to the you know, I mean, I was kind of classical
change. If we keep to that kind of flavors, I think you're not
going to go wrong. And I think if you've got a good palette and
you're cooking too what you like, the people are like that. If you
start going off pieced a bit, and I think you're really happy with that,
I think, just do what you do and listen to your guests.
I mean I speak to them, my guests every night. I'm out on
the floor asking how things were. And you know, once you get you
know, associated with some really good customers and really good businesses, they'll soon
tell you what's right and what's not wrong in a nice way, you know,
because you're always looking for good feedback and constructive feedback. And as long
as you are willing to take that on the chin as I suppose, or
take it and do something with it, I think you're not going too far
wrong. Are you still sticking with your same ethos? Now you're on your
own of of doing this local supplies fish and yeah, yeah, even more
so now, Jim. I think, because you know, you've got to
keep your finger on the pulse. You've got to you know, you got
to know exactly what you're buying and I've always I've no changed taks. If
I was being a chef for someone or being on my own, I would
do the exactly the same. You know, the suppliers know not to send
us any kind of know, some good stuff because if you just to send
it back and I think our standards are are met. You know, we
look at every single thing comes through the door to see if it's within our
our standards. And I think that's how it's great to know your suppliers,
because the soon know what you need and the produce that you want, and
this kind of size of fish that you want. And you know, with
the odd times that you get you know, lobsters that are too big,
but you know we'll sort that out. But I think the key thing for
me if you can buy or can get as close to the source, like
we buy lobs us from down and John's Haven. I think, you know
they know exactly what size of the lobsters we want. We get lobsters from
Stonehaven. He knows exactly what lobs of sizes we want within you know a
couple of hundred grams. You know, the guys at the market, they
know the kind of halibit the size they want roughly, So that's exactly for
me because it all works out get portion size because you know, if i've
you know, hall abit for me is is around five to six skiller and
I can know what yield I get from that. So that's a good,
little good thing for for chefs starting out they're trying, you know, say
to your suppliers, well, that kind of halibit or tarbet is good for
me because I know exactly how many portions roughly within you know, hundred grams
or so. But I think a little at a lot of things like that
really help help me. What the message I get picked up from that as
well, Kevin is it gives the whole project a consistency. And yes,
it tells your suppliers and what you're what you demand and what you want,
but it's also a great message for your staff. Yeah. I think,
like anything and the kind of level that cooking and you and you were cooking
as well, I think consistency and creature a habit, I think is the
two key things for for for restaurants to survive, because you know, consistently
for me putting if I'm not there of Matthew's here in the kitchen. The
most reason thing for me to say is get good reports and say, oh,
I had a great meal last night at Mouse, and I know for
a fact I wasn't in So that's the best thing for me because if we've
trained the staff, probably you know, we've got we've got everything right that
the chefs know what they're doing in the front of house, know what they're
doing, And that's the reason for me that I can take a step back
that I don't have to be there every night the of the week, because
I mean I'm there ninety percent of the nighttime. But as you know,
you've got to try and have some some free time as well, especially with
a kind of young family. So it's important that you that you feed that
knowledge onto your your next people in the in the restaurant. That's so true.
The last thing you want is I've actually heard it. I can't remember
where it was or who it was, but there was this guy that were
talking about going out for a meal and they says, oh, don't go
on our Wednesday. The chef some night. Yeah, well yeah, I
think it's I mean, you know, if I was to fall off for
a few weeks and you can't dependent on your business notice survive if you know
there. So I've set it up so you know, I can't take time
off as long as i'm there, you know, ninety percent of time,
because it's easy for you to drop off the off the wagon. But I'm
there, you know every day. I don't mind being the kitchen every day
because you know, as yourself in a business, it's not just about cooking,
it's about you know, you know, looking ahead. We're always looking
ahead to do different events. We've just launched our Bummy Burns or Robbie Burns
Night for obviously the in Janius, So we're always looking to do different themed
events. And we do a cup of sporting events every year. So anyone
want to keep it different, you know, we just don't want to be
the same kind of restaurant D n D. We want to keep it interested
with the staff, keep it interesting for me, keep it interesting for the
guests. So that's why we're slightly different to than any other restaurant in the
city. And are you for your Burns Night theme night? Are you piping
the hags in and all that? Yeah? I mean last year Glynn Glyn
Parnell came up and we had a bit of fun and we called it the
Brummy Burns Night because obviously he's from Birmingham. But this year Glynn can't make
it, so we've got we've got the ambassadors from Glynn Fillick, so he's
going to host the evening and we've got some amazing whiskeys that are going to
through. We've got a whiskey a thirty year old, we've got a twenty
five year old, we've got twenty one year old, and then we've got
one in from Bolbeni as well. So it's a great mixture from from the
from the Grant family that we've got there. So we're going to do five
different drums to five different courses and we'll pipe in the hagus and we're going
to do you know, we're going to do I think a little bit different.
So we're gonna do a little haggis and oxytill ravioli to start with,
with a little Madeira cream sauce and we'll do a nice smoke salmon dish and
then we'll probably do a roadier dish and then we'll finish off with if we
can get some bud orange, we'll do something with blood range. So and
then obviously wonderful whiskeys and some amazing wines as well. So we'll we'll mix
up. We'll not be whiskey to match each course. Yeah, we're going
to match. We're going to match all the whiskeys to the courses, which
is which is great. So so the guys from Glennafredic are amazing for for
doing that. So and they match up the whiskeys and we're you know,
a lot, we'll do that more and more. Now we're doing a lot
of whiskey pairings as well as wine pairings. I think we've done about eight
or nine and we've got a few book to earlyer this next year as well,
which is which is great because we've we've purposely built our whisky list up
on our wine list just because you know, in Aberdeen, Aberdeen, Sure,
we've got great tourists coming in now. You know, I've noticed in
the last year or two years the golf really taken off here, the whiskey
trails are really taken off. So we only try and capture that market when
they come and be ready for them. So we've purposely upskilled our whisky list
and our wine list to you know, to showcase what the region's got and
Scotland supposes such. You know, Kevin, I have to say I'm deleted
to listen to you because what really impresses me and comes ratling home is you're
you're a chef pretty much all your life, all your working life, you've
been a chef and you've worked in some of the most outstanding places. But
what fascinates me listening to you just now is you're talking as a business man,
which is so important. Yeah, but I think I've probably learned a
bit of from US Belgium because you're a good guy business guy too, So
I think speaking to you and talking about food to you, I think I
always kind of was interested on that kind of side because and I think it's
to be a chef. For to be a successful chef, you've got to
run the kitchen like a business. And I think I've always done that,
you know, is it from is it banter for for a for a all
Abit price or a Harrick price or and then you've got to try and get
the yield and a portion correct, and I think, you know, I
think that just kind of stems through the business, I think. And then
and You've always watched and I've always I think I like Banister and John Banister
again, they were really pioneers or their or their time. I think they're
well ahead of their time. For Achagold Tower was an amazing place, and
I think John and Lett Banister were two of the most switched on people I'd
ever met in my life, you know, from taking the ruins of a
castle to make it into an amazing world destination and just outside with too,
so I think taking bits and pieces from them. And you know they done
a golf weekend with Ronning Rafferty and Scott Crmfields was his trainer, and we
had a guy Butterwick up doing the wines from Clarity and we just exactly the
same two months ago we managed to get Running up and do a night and
and he's done the wines and guy came up from London to do the wines
as well. And I think it was just you know, to do a
weekend that we did that at the restaurant, which was successful that came from
Akagil Tower twenty years ago. You know, Running would do a weekend and
holost of weekend with great wines and great food and to emulate that there obviously
there'll be a lot smaller scale, but that's the kind of stuff I love
from from general like Banister, and I think, you know, just to
learn a lot of things and different from restaurants. You know, I think
you want to make it interesting. I totally agree with you there. I
just often used to think about the vision John and or Let Banister must have
had what they saw there, and obviously they were looking at factors like also
though it was remote where they were, to have airport close by, all
the all the rail link, all the important things. But also I mean
I had the good fortune to have some involvement with Chercal Tower, which I
really enjoyed. And when you were doing the Food of Love weekend and you
had some amazing chefs, real top top chefs, and that's one of the
things I quite often, very often was impressed with talking to them. They
were the success fall ones were quite corporate minded as well. Yes, I
mean I still sometimes can't believe the kind of chefs that we got up to
with, you know. I think I must have been in my twenties at
the time, late twenties, and to try and get these chefs up and
we weren't paying them many fees as such, we're just phoning them over and
asked them if he would come up, and I think they were quite intrigued,
to be honest about why we've got up to wik to this castle.
I can always remember Anton Musslman, you know, such a great chef,
you know, and you talk about businessman, I think he's probably one of
the best for being really corporate and really business minded. So he taken a
little nuggets from him. And I think he invited me down to his place
in Bulgaria, his little church there, which was an amazing place, and
you know, he showed me around and you know, he had the modern
Blanc room they would sit two people who'd have the Bentley room that would sit
with a big oak table with the Bentley seats and you know, and he
said to me, these companies came to him to do them out, you
know what I mean. So I think even little things like that as well,
one day I might do that here. So you know, fast forward
twenty five years that he years. You know, fit Ken have been really
good to us, that help us at a different level. But you know,
they've invested in us a little bit to make I love the Whiskey Cabinet
and produced those little whiskeyes. So you know what I remembered twenty five years
ago with Anton Musselmans came to fresh you know now, so if we just
speak to these guys and you know, we have we had Nicknair, we
have Paul Paul, Paul Rankin, we had Phil Howard, we had you
know to get all the guys from the Square, we had Brett from the
Ledbury, Angela Hartnett. You know, all these guys that came up and
you know, they really enjoyed themselves up in Wick because they've never seen any
like it. Richard Corrigan. That's funny when when we got Richard to the
and then we started getting the Chester with its slightly different with the signature festival.
And I can remember speaking to Richard Corrigan and Richard Grame was with me
and he says, have you ever been to Aberdeen before? He says,
oh, I've been to Aberdeen once when I was doing a gig in Wick
and I had to leave early to go and watch the rugby. I says,
yeah, that was with me Richard, and then obviously he was burst
up laughing because he had to had to go to Crook Park to watch the
rugby halfway through the halfway through the dinner. But it's even meeting these guys,
you know, that was you know, for them to come up to
our little kitchen and Wick and cook some of the amazing meals with us was
great, and it was great for the staff, and it was great for
the suppliers up and wear up in Wick and Thursley and scraps. I can
remember I don't know if he'd maybe said to you, I think when we
had Anton musselming up and he couldn't believe that the troller went out for such
long time because he's used to do a little day boats down in Cornwall and
says, I can't believe the trollers are out for maybe seven up to seven
days. He couldn't get that into his head that he thought about. We
went, I caught the fish and came back the same day. Yeah,
the thing had fascinated in May with Anton Mossyman. Was there were actually a
market in scraps there on that day. So and I was sort of doing
a seafood slant on the on that weekends and so well, good luck that
on that occasion we had actually had an auction going, and he just absolutely
loved the sort of vibrancy and whatnot, and I was fascinated. He came
up, he obviously saw Hall a Bit and Turbot and John Doe. He's
all lined up with iced and fish boxes waiting for the auction to waiting for
them to be sold. And he leaned over and obviously the way you could
see that the whee wheels were getting round, and he was thinking that where
the businessman commute? He says, what do you pay for haliban? Up
here? There's nothing about what would you cook? What did you do with
it? Yeah, well, I think even myself now, I think you've
got to have that business mind as well as you know. I'd say,
percentage wise, I'm probably in the kitchen seventy percent of my working day and
then thirty percent on everything else, you know what I mean. But you've
got to I'll say that that's within that you know, a day's business.
But I mean I get in the morning you're shooting your emails, just straight
on speaking to people, So I mean, I don't really count that as
his work. But I think you've just got to be You've got to be
everywhere in your businesses. You know absolutely. The one thing you don't want,
I would say, is I hate the very word or anything associated with
it cheap or or discount. I used to always myself. I always said,
Kevin, whatever anybody feels about it, it's a known as price because
I know the standard and world standard food as you mentioned there yourself, that
we would be we get up here. So yeah, I always felt that
it was never stuck in high and selling cheap. No, I think we're
class to be quite expensive in Aberdeen, which which had rather that than than
to be cheap. But we're just honest. We're know we're no recognized anywhere.
Guests. We maybe buy, as I said earlier, we buy the
best. You know, we've got Tarbet coming tomorrow, we've got all a
bit, We've got will Bass, We've got you know, scalps that come
from what we every every week. You know, we buy the best,
the freshest lobster and card that come through the door every every other day from
from just down the road. So you know, we've buy the best that
we can and we don't do that much to do it because we want the
as you say, we want the flavors and the natural flavors. I like
cooking to sing through. So that's that's all we do. I think we
try, and you know, we've really could much about cooking, but I
think my best way of cooking, I think, is just to let the
flavors or the natural flavors speak for themselves. I think, you know,
you don't want to over complicate cooking. I think cooking shouldn't be over complicate,
complex, that should just be natural. That's that's how I see it.
But don't you see as well? Unfortunately you hear people which I intentionally
dislike, the term old school or old fashioned when you talk about respect and
honesty and that. But you mentioned that earlier, the word honesty, And
do you not feel what it comes down that I feel listening to you and
thinking through what you're saying. Given your customers are trust you, but you
also trust your suppliers and these trust you, so it's trust all the way.
Yeah. I mean, that's why I like getting as close. I
keep saying close to the source, but it's getting as close to the you
know, you know that the farmer. You know, we've even then to
the little lady that Katie that does the eggs. You know, we're you
know, the guy that helps us to make our bread. We're off.
You know, we're all friendly. We will speak about stuff if if they've
got a problem. You know, our bread supplier somethings brings our lops us
up and then vice versa. So you know, we try. It's a
small community really, if you think about especially in Aberdeenshire, it's a small
small network are really good suppliers that we try and keep together. And you
know, I don't jump suppliers from from one week to the next because I
save a pound. He could do that, but it'd be be a nice
But I think, you know, some days that we'll lose, sometimes they'll
win. And I think you've just got to be honest with everyone and say,
you know, as long as as long as you're honest with me,
I'll be honest with you. And it's an end the day, we'll we'll
just buy the best that we can and that's all we do. Yeah,
it's it's so important. But I always felt as well, Kevin, and
I'm sure that's one of the reasons you're stick to locals suppliers yourself, but
not only it's it's not a case I don't think price comes into it.
But one of the things that I thought so important as far as the quality
is concerned, and on many an occasion I had chefs up in scraps there.
Unfortunately, although he's not with us now, a good friend yours Andrew
fairly one of them. And one of the things that they could never get
over Kevin was which I know that you're well switched on to the shelf life
we've got. Yeah, yeah, I mean I think especially you, I
mean even you see here in Aberdeen. I think if you can get as
as fresh as you can and ebeat sculps coming every day in the stop pulsating.
You know, we only buy as issued enemies by by Shelfish live and
it's extremely live when we get it, and something that the fish is too
fresh, you know, I mean we sometimes I've been I've been filling out
a hall a bit and it's actually still it's a bit tough almost, you
know what I mean. So you sometings need to let it relax a bit
a day or so just to get the better best at it. You know,
it's I think sometimes it can be too fresh. Sometimes well the rigor
mortis is not out of it and people think, oh, it's only humans
that get rigor mortis sets in when a body a human dies, But it's
every everything, every whether it's got a fin or legs or wings, mortar
sets in. And if you don't, if you don't, if you try
to cut it before that and take it off the bone, you're in trouble.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I quite often that people may be making
comments like that and they couldn't believe when I aren'twer would be looking at me
when I answered them saying, well, the biggest problem we have in freshness
is it's too fresh. Sometimes sometimes that can mind be an apagal and would
get a target or a or or a harbit through and it was exactly I
mean, soul was probably the hardest one to try and to try and relieve
for a while because it was too fresh and it would just be tough almostly
a tough state. I mean you just have to try and keep it for
the nes again day. But yeah, it's not a bad problem to have,
to be honest. What kind of what what? What would you do?
What kind of dish would you serve with a nice fresh halibit off the
market? I mean halibit we've got all abit actually coming in tomorrow, I
mean halibit. I tell her what we did do actually yesterday, sorry last
week. We had a little nuggets of We had some sea trout, we
had some halibit, and we had some wild bass, and we actually made
a little and we had some lovely prawns and some squid, and we actually
did a lovely the oral pasta and we made a nice shellfish beast and cooked
the oral pasta through almost we do like a paella almost such with rice,
and it had some treats oil, and we made a lovely past a little
shells, I mean just like panned fried all a little bit of fish,
a little bit of a little nugget a sea trout, a little nugget hal
abit, a lot nugget of bass, I mean almost done. Recreated a
little paiella dish, but it was with a little ordro pasta. And I
had it on Sunday from my lunch. And sometimes you just don't you just
take a step back and say that was absolutely delicious because you could taste every
part of the fish. You could taste the bars, you could taste the
halibit, you could taste the sea shrut and it was all just masked and
flavored with this wonderful the shellfish or soo, which was was great. So
a lot of things like that we do. But but I think even we've
got Turbert coming tomorrow, we pull it. I mean, I just could
get. I love the little brown shrimps so a little you know, a
little monyear. I mean, we had lovely dover souls in a few weeks
ago, which was like Hen's teeth, and we just done it with a
little mareniar muscles and things like that. It was absolutely We poched it.
We turned off the bone and we'd steamed it and pouched it as opposed to
just pan frying it. But we pushed it with a muscles. I think
muscle stock is one of the most flavorsome you can get. We just reduce
it with white wine, loads of phenyl and celery and all that kind of
atomatics, partially dill, and then just make a little nice little cream sauce
finish it. Reduce it and make it really irriated and just poach the fish
in that. And it's absolutely fantastic. I just love listening to the way
you're the terms you're using and almost before the word before every bit of fish
you mentioned you have the work, just your passion. I just get excited
the word lovely, which is lovely to hear. No, it's I mean,
I just get you know. I just love cooking. I just love
cooking, especially fish, I think because it's such a delicate thing. Delicate,
it's quite delicate to cooking, you know. It's I think fish cooking
is far more as far harder than than kind of thing meat wise, because
you can obviously, let I mean, we do like fish rest as well,
but I think there's more error in fish over cooking. Then we always
cook our fish likely under to be honest, which sometimes has a problem with
some people, but that's the way we cook it. And it's there's nothing
wrong with that, it's absolutely fantastic. But it's just trying to educate people.
I think the biggest thing in Scotland, I think is to try and
educate people. And I don't mean and I kind of pont Away or anything
like that. I think we need to try in it because I think historically
Scotland and I have said it's for years. You know, Scotland's got the
best produce in the world, but the worst diet in the world. So
we need to try and educate people to eat better and eat properly, and
you know, eat things that shoot the way that should should be cooked.
And we will not change our cooking way for anyone. And people want to
send it back to you know, have a bit cooked a lot more.
That's fine, but you know, we'll never overcook fish and we'll cook fish
properly. And I think it's always a it's always a being in my life.
We will say, oh, it's it's undercooked, when actually it's they
should just eat it and enjoy it. You know. There's a woman come
into the captain's Gallio wants and sister me. She says, thank god,
I've just discovered there's more to Scotland than haddock. There's nothing wrong with I
like, but that's right, you know, I mean, but where can
you go? You could probably name I reckon fifteen restaurants in Scotland if you
went for an You know, one of my favorite thing is it's a wonderful
poached piece of salmon. You know, you don't really get much wild salmon
these days, but you imagine a wonderful either a wild sea show, just
poaching that beautiful stock, you know, slight, just warm pink on the
inside. Where do we get that. It's it's difficult to get people because
people just overcook it. And I think it's very difficult to get anice piece
of fish at that in Scotland, which is a shame. And keep it
simple with a nice mayonnaise, a nice fresh mayonnaise is yeah. I mean,
I love the springtime when we have you know, you get the sea
trout coming in and you have the sparagus there and you have the juzzy rolls.
I think that three combinations asparagus, juzzy rolls and sea trout is one
of the best combinations you'll get. And I always look forward to that time
in the kind of springtime when the first of the juz rolls come through to
make that you know, a nice Judge roll fix or a nice gesule foam
and just poach nicely the sea trout. And I think that combination is it's
just fantastic. So you know, seasons again, season all is a big
thing for us at the restaurant. You know, we will never put obviously
things asparagus at this time of year, but I think and I would look
forward to the different nuggets that produce you get through to each season, which
you know, I'm already looking forward to the blood oranges and and the rule
barb coming through and end of January. So I think you know, this
is the kind of time that there's nothing much coming in, but I think
you look forward to the kind of January February time. There's little nuggets I
think men through that they look forward to put on the menu. It's interesting
you say that, Kevin. What does seasonal day mean to you? Oh,
just as much as cooking local or using local supplies. I think seasonality
is that is is up there with buying local because you know it's it comes
hand in hand. You know, your suppliers are the you know, the
farmer will come to you or the or the farm down the road. See
I've got this beautiful spouting broccoli, or we've got this lot of collettes at
this time of year that they'll put up to us, I think, and
I think working with local people, they will say I've got this next week,
or I've got that that week, or that's coming the following month.
So that's how we look at our menus, that's how we devise our menus
because we will speak to our suppliers and see what we've got next one,
what's what's the star ingredient in this next month that we can put our menus
and you know you usually get a partner and we've got a part of now
what what we like to use using what we know that's coming in, and
that's how we we read your menus. We will we will be determined on
the season and what we've got local. That's how we that's how we write
our menus. What when you're from the places you've talked about Archer Hall Tower
before that Savoy, what sort of just say banquets and things like that,
what sort of numbers have you cooked for are been involved? I mean the
Savoy was like ridiculous. I mean that we could do we can do seven
to fifteen a Lancaster. We could do over a thousand a day in the
Savoy, you know what I mean. So but seeing that in the chest
that we could do five hundred a day, you know, even at the
restaurant we could. We've got well this this Friday, they call it Mad
Friday. We've got one hundred and sixty two books, which is a lot
for us but that's three settings throughout the day which you have to plays in
that. But I think, yeah, the numbers, but I think it's
just been organized. And I think working in different sizes of places and different
types of places helps you through the career. You know, to be organized,
I've always feel I was fairly organized. If it's running a kitchen or
just running a section, or or running just one little section within a kitchen,
I think you've got to be dead organized. I think there's if you're
organized, you're going to be fine. I think that's I can remember that
from you. And I think that's the difference between a cook and a chef.
I like the idea of the cook, but a chef with his prep,
you know, it's all about prep and and they have a system so
organized. I think it's wondering if it's a place to even watch guys like
yourself the way you we're organized, so when you are hit with big numbers,
it's never a mad panic last minute because you're now. I think for
me, you know, and what I've tried to install in the restaurant is
if we do one hundred covers, it's going to be exactly the same as
we do twenty covers, and that's what I mean. The food that we'll
put out on Friday, although it's mad Friday, we'll put as much care
in detail to every single dish for that one hundred and sixty people, or
we would for twenty people the following week, you know what I mean.
And I think that's the that's the kind of nod to a really good restaurant.
It's the same. It doesn't matter if you go when it's really busy
or it's really quiet, you'll get the same. And we talked earlier on
about consistency and the produce and consisting in the prep. But if your dishes
is consistently good, it doesn't matter how busy or how quiet you are.
I think that's the key to for repeat custom because people, as you say,
they know your style, they know your ninety nine point nine. You're
going to get a decent meal and it'll be an odd time that something happens,
obviously, but it'll not be for the lack of trying to do things
right. Yeah. Well, that's that's the work that goes back to the
honesty. Yeah. Yeah, I think people come, we get a lot
of a peak custom, which is really pleasing to us because they know and
we've got a lot of business guys coming in and business dinners, and they're
obviously entertaining clients and they don't really embarrassed by you know, a poor service
or a poor poor piece of food. You know, they want to entertain
their clients and maybe strike a deal or you know, you don't know what
business meetings are happening in the restaurant, but we've just got to be honest
and do our best. And I think what I've noticed now is is you've
got to step outside the kitchen with you know, being a chef. It's
not good hiding in the kitchen and hoping everything is going to be fine.
You've got to you know, take the bull by the horns and and you
know, demand the same respect you having the kitchen to your front house staff
and say this is what it needs to be, like, this is the
service that we need to be, like, this is what we want to
do, and set our stalls out to try and you know, at the
front house staff need to be on point just as much as the kitchen guy,
because you know, we've never really touched in service. But I think
service is just as supportingt is serving a good meal because they're your print,
but they're your eyes and ears of the restaurant. You know, that's what
people see. And if we get bad service, doesn't matter a great piece
of fish or whatever it may be. If the service is poor, they're
not going to come back. What's your sort of code of conduct for a
commercial kitchen. We just you know what I've done in the kitchen, and
I've purposely done it. You know, I've always said that kitchen should be
like a football teammost you try and get different people within in your in your
brigade. We've got we've got an amazing two really amazing with three really amazing
young people in the kitchen. We've got Phoebe who just won win the springboard
national finals last year and we've just teenned her as an apprentice, so she's
the youngster in the kitchen. And we've got you know, we've got Leslie
and Ross, who's the two kind of chefter parties that are. They're still
young, but they're absolutely fantastic within their own rights. We've got Armin who's
the other chef to party, and then Matthews, the headsher. But they're
all young people want to learn. They're keen, and you know, I
need to pass on my knowledge and my you know, organization and if I've
got any skill, well, because I need to pass on to them because
hopefully, you know, we'll nurture them for the next generation, you know.
And I think we've got to bring the young people through. So we've
purposely turned an apprentice, will hopefully take another one next year once the people
move up the ranks. I think we've got to keep it fresh and you
know, keep them young and keep them interested because we've got to have this
next generation of hospitality people because it's hard to find people. And that's you
know, that's what I'm about the kitchen. We want to try and bring
the young people in and you know, we get them a good wage even
be that young, but we need to learn them and get them into this
indisty because the industry will falling flat in the face if we don't have the
right people here. That's admirable because it's I can just imagine that looking at
from the youngster's point of view, what a great training they're getting. Yeah,
I mean it's it's one to one a lot of the time because and
again I was very conscious of not working them over hard. You know,
when I was when I was young, probably Phoebe's age, I was at
the Savoy and I would start at six in the morning. I would something's
fincial living at night and you get happen our break or what it may be.
But those kind of days are are few and far between now hopefully because
it does take me. I can always mind it saying if you work a
year, it's of why you really work two and a half because of the
hours that you put in. But I think that's that kind of makes a
lot of people, but it also breaks a lot of people. So in
our kitchen, we just get the guys to work four long days. They're
working about forty two hours a week. They get three days off, and
that's how we work it in the kitchen, and because they need they need
to try and have that life balance because if we don't get if we don't
have that life balance, I think we're going to lose a lot of good
people to the industry. And I think we're going to make it more a
factive to younger people and get them in because a lot of people do enjoy
cooking and the low and it's a bit of a different kettle of fish cooking
within a you know, a professional kitchen. That isn't it in a in
a kind of home kitchen. But if you've got that arch to cook,
I think we need to urge people to come in and we can of overwork
people, we kind of shout and ball on them. I mean, we
need to give them a fair chance to enjoying it. I think I think
that's fantastic to hear that, Kevin, because the industry, which I'm sure
you'll agree in certain places, has done nothing to attract people into the industry,
giving people split shifts, not two days off together, and not all
that well paid. That it hasn't given the industry. It hasn't done anything
for the industry. Sort to hear you saying that that's commendable, that people
actually can have a life, and you probably, I'm quite sure you're not
absolutely no fool. I'm quite sure you probably. I can hear it in
your voice. I think you feel that you get a better return for it
for being fair to them. Yeah, I mean, I hope so.
I think you know it does cost the business a lot of money. It
does. You know, we could easily if I was really, you know,
really business minded or really you know, we could say, well you
work five days and you know, but I want, I want, I
really care about the industry. I really care about the people coming through.
So if I can give a bit back, why be you know, a
lot of less margin on the wages or it costs a lot bit more.
I think that's just every If everyone just did a little bit to help the
industry. You know, I could easily say I could easily cut way two
chefs and we'd run people at the ground and they would have just had to
do the work. But I don't want to be that business that that drives
people at the ground or makes people you know, don't want to cook,
or they get burnt out. As to say, I want to be a
nice, pleasant place to you know, we have our days. It's it's
hard, but I think on the on the cooks of the thing, I
think we look after our staff as much as we can. You know,
we give them, you know, three days off they work for sometimes long
days mean one one close happy on a Sunday, which sometimes get four nights
off, so you kind of give them a better opportunity than that. As
long as as long as they're they're ready for coming into work next again day
and we're ready. I don't care. It's as long as I've been enjoying
it. And I think you want people to enjoy it. I think that's
I enjoy it, So I want people to enjoy it. I think,
yeah, when you say there, and I know you well enough that I
know exactly what you do for the industry, I'm giving something back. I
can ask you your can I ask you? Could you tell an audience about
your involvement with the Royal Academy of Culinary Arts. Yeah, I mean I've
been I've been involved with the Royal Academy for our best part, I had
to say twenty years now. I think it's how time flies. But I
think it's a great association to being involved with. And I think the chefs
that have involved or the top of the game, and you know, for
the first time ever, I was went to the golf Golf Week at Tumbury
in the summer or just late summer, and I was going around the golf
of course with John Williams, who was obviously the execu chef for the Rits.
So to do that was a great, great, great times they've had
his drea for about four hours, which was I don't think it was used
to please, but I think it was. But were just asked him questions
and he was actually a great guy to go around the golf and I'd say
my golf improved slightly. But but even just be you know, because we've
all got the same philosophy. We want to teach, we want to you
know, try and do the you know, sustainability. I think all this
factors that the Academy and myself I have. I think it's it's driven through
the Academy and I think, you know, it's a great opportunity to pick
up the phone to anyone if you're needing any advice or or or even about
of help. It's great just to speak to these people. And so I
mean and part of the Scottish Scottish Branch, which is what you do,
which is in a bit of a transitional period pitch. Hopefully by next year
we're going to get it up and running against which is which should be great.
You're in charge, you're in in the Scottish branch. Yeah, I
was in charge, but I think it's a bit what flux just now so
we're looking looking to liven it up and we'll have a few meetings and maybe
next next year to see how we can drive it for because you know,
everyone's busy and I think after COVID we tried to kick started through zoom calls
and things like that. But I think the Scottish division needs to get more
involved with the London branch. I think and or the rest of the team
need to come together and the guys from London need to have a couple of
meetings in Scotland as well, just to try and to try and you know,
break up a bit. And we've touched base with a lot of the
Northern branch. I went down to see Paul ask you at the Ivy the
Arthhouse sorry in Liverpool, so we've had a couple of meetings there which is
great. So the Northern branch is quite keen to do a little tip up
to Scotland. I'm trying to have a couple of meetings here as well as
go down down to Middlesbrough or Liverpool or Newcastle. It's it is a fantastic
organization and there's a lot for the industry. Funny, I've sold our restaurant
and that horrible world. Retired, but I've kept my membership of the Royal
Academy going because I think it's just a it's just something I like being involved
in. Yeah, I mean if you look at the caliber of people that
are there, that they're all on top of their game and they're all do
that a little bit, you know, from the Adopt the Chef's School,
which we have got a couple of schools in Aberdeen that I still do and
I've teamed up with a couple of schools that they try and to do that.
And I've done something with Russell Anderson at Just Jourdan COVID, which was
similar to the Adopted School, which Russell's got a foundation which he helped you
know and the privileged schools and kids and that to take part in the sport.
And he branched out and asked if I'd do some cooking lessons. So
all kind of came came about during COVID where I would cook every Friday during
COVID, I would go in into the Chester. I would cook, you
know, fifty meals for the for the kids and that would go to the
families because during COVID, obviously there was not any school school meals, so
a lot of the kids were. Depending on the school, we used to
get a hot meal. So every Friday I had said I would cook in
my own time, I would cook every Friday. The Russell Anderson would pick
it up in a little vans and they would take it directly to the families
through COVID and we just done that every every Friday, just to give them
a hot meal, just touch on a Friday, and then that continued after
after COVID. Once the schools came back on a Tuesday, on my day
off at the chest, I would I would cook. I would go down
in the seating community parish church and I would do a lot of cooking lesson
for them and they were absolutely fantastic. And again it was just to give
them a meal. And you think it's a bit harsh, but some people
don't get that they're lucky enough to have a hot meal every week. So
that's one of the main reasons that we do it. I've done it and
I'll do that again once we get settled into the restaurant. But you know,
you know, being a being a Rangers band in Aberdeen, I think
it's good to help the Aberdeen footballer Russell to help to do things like that,
which is which is great. Yeah, I wouldn't be shooting too loudly
as a Rangers man in Aberdeen, no, But I mean we do a
lot of things with the club, I suppose, and I just like football
team, honest Jim, and I think you know, we do a lot
of things for the club. And I can remember my son Robbie when he
first arrived on the scene here in Aberdeen. He went to the Community Trust
training and I got away with I think a season of that with him having
the Rangers top on. And then he said, Dad, dad, and
these guys have got in tops one. I went right, okay, So
at the time Rangers had had a red Away top, so I put him
in that. I think I got a week at that one. And then
obviously he wanted to with Aberdeen talks, which which I got from and I
said, why do you want to put an Aberdeen This is I've just got
to spoke my local team. So there he goes I liked Aberdeen for a
few years and does he is that? Well, I'm hearing the finish for
a few years. Do you mean you've got them changed again? No,
no, no, not at all. If you want to suport Aberdeen,
that was that was his his his choice. But I think I tear him
to Bruce a Dublin game two seasons ago, and I think I think that
kind of changed his appetite for the for the for football or for Rangers,
because that was just I mean, it's one of the best nights I've ever
seen Eyebrooks. But yeah, but I mean he can support whoever he wants.
Good on you, Good on you, a bit light hearted with all
the number and lovely food that have you. What's if I can ask you,
what's the best and worst compliment you've ever had? The best and worst
complement? It's a hard one. I think the best cup. I think
the best complement gym is just to have a full restaurant and everyone's happy.
I think people don't need to sell them to you, just need to Sometimes
I come out to the restaurant and just take a step back. I've done
it and started there with a full restaurant, and I could see people laughing
and meeting people, and you know, I think to come to take to
spend their harding cash in my restaurant and have a good time. I think
that's the biggest complement anyone can give to me. I'm probably coming back as
well, I can, yeah, exactly that. I mean, you know,
we have a lot of repeat customers now, which you know, become
friends, I suppose, And I think you've got to that's the biggest complent
for me to see people and you know, to take time to come to
my restaurant and enjoy themselves and come back. I suppose the worst compliment,
I don't know, maybe not coming back. I've never had many touch with
bad compliments. I think you get the odd one. But it could be,
you know, a piece of fish it's not cooked right, or a
piece of meat it's no quick, quick to their liking. But I think
on the whole I've done pretty well. I think, yeah, good,
good, Yeah. And so what now, what would a day in the
life Kevin Dougleys be an average day in the life An average day, I
think I get up and bust thing and his check emails, which is probably
a bad habit, and then you obviously, I'll go to the restaurant,
take the dogs and walk sometimes, but Kerry's very good at doing that.
I'll head the restaurant first. You know, checks that the produce that's coming
in, check the staff to see if they're fine, you know, make
sure the rest is looking good. Of touch space with Olivia, who does
our market and then see else and we'll sit with her for a good maybe
half an hour. We'll go through the day's business, we'll go through the
week's business. Then we'll go through the next team month's business to see if
we have any events or anything that's coming on then and then we can start
marketing ahead because we always work maybe three months ahead. And then I'll get
into the kitchen for a bit, get some prep down, We'll do a
bit of lunch, and then after that I'll sometimes come home for an hour
or so, or I'll maybe touch base with Nikola in front of house team
and see how they get on over there and how how if we need to
market any staff or getting new staff and or staff training or send people away
in any courses. And then obviously dinner comes along. We'll do dinner service,
and then you know, I'll go and speak to the guests after dinner,
and then help clean down for a bit and then and then head home.
And that's that's the basis of the day really I think, you know,
there's a bit bit everything. There's a bit of market and a bit
of cooking. And who'd have thought, you know, I mean, you
know, I never thought I'd have a restaurant, and you know, even
five years ago, go I think it's but it opens up opportunities, It
opens up obviously different doors. I think the first year, well last year
obviously done the Great British Menu, which was amazing, and that opens up
more doors. And I think I think you've just got to try and keep
pushing, pushing your brand as opposed it's such. I think you've got to
try and push. A brand is such, and it is called a brand.
And now I think we've got to try and establish that brand and you
never know what comes that. We're looking at doing a second place maybe next
year, butch will complement our restaurant here, which I'll drive even more people
through. So I think it's all exciting. I found anyway, and I'm
sure you you feel it yourself. Go round the tables. As you said,
it's so important. And I think people people a people like speaking to
the man himself, but they do like speaking to the chef. Yeah,
I mean I see people. I mean I'm once, I'm once, I'm
out. I'm actually fine. But getting out, you put it, try
and build myself up to go out. But I don't know why. But
once you're you're actually fine because people's faces light up. If they had a
great night, they'll they'll love chatting to you. You know, they love
speaking about how you cook stuff and what you've been doing and what you're doing
next, and you know, and they love seeing that they've had a great
night and what they're celebrating, why they're here and who's at the table,
and and even we got a lot of people from White Gym coming up.
We've had a good I've got to stick. I've got to stock a bot
of skippers run behind the bar now for people from out just together, just
to get that running milk when they ever arrive. But you know, it's
and I think just the best thing for a chef is to let people enjoy
themselves. And once you're around the tables and you know people are happy,
you can rest these deceived in a good day's work. I'd say, do
yeah, I know your family there, but do you go to hoke at
all? Now? Still? I tried to, I mean I tried to
get down at the come Riding. I was there last year. I've been
there most most years. But yeah, I do. I mean, my
brother is still there, my mum is still there. So I do try
and and obviously a lot of friends are there, but a lot of friends
have left, but you know, we try and make a part to the
comrade and some of a lot of friends come back. So it's a good
time to meet up as such, and but it was It's a big part
of my life. When it's I suppose you call it home still and the
people are like, a great, yeah, there's they're really good people.
Moving slightly different. What are you into books? What what book would you
recommend? Books? I just like cook books. I'm not great at reading,
you know, I but cook books yeah, I mean I still think
the Squares are great cook book, both the Savory and the Suite and what's
the latest one? I know what any party while? To be honest,
I thought that The Rich is an amazing book. I turn it down to
Tumblean and got John Willan to sign it when he was there. I think
that's a I think that's I think The Rich just now is on par with
one of the bit any of the hotels in the world just now, the
food and I think John Willens is an incredible job of the last twelve years.
I think, yeah, I mean that's too that I stand up for
me just now. I think there's obviously the classics. We had Mark a
peer Wire up at the Chester a few years ago and attend the White heat
Book Tom and got to sign it, which was, you know, we're
iconic book back in the day, and it still is a great book.
You know, aiconic, iconic, all round conic person. It's such a
character. He's he's quite in depth, but such a such a character.
Yeah. So where's Where's Where's Kevin Dougley's going forward? Uh? Well,
I mean we've just got to keep pushing the restaurant. I think we're coming
to I say, I say, quiet period. It's such a January,
but look, but at least we've got some history now that we can look
back to see what we did in last January. We've done. We'd actually
okay, but you always worry that you're going to be slightly quiet. But
I mean we've just had a few inquiries for January, so January is looking
really good. And just keep being you know, do what we do at
the restaurant, building on the restaurant. If we've reinvested a lot in the
restaurant with some r and some you know, whiskey cabinets and wine carbinets.
So you've got to keep reinvesting to a extent to make the restaurant look good.
And then you know, we've got the opportunity to do a second place,
which we're looking at just now, and see what that takes us.
We're going to do completely different concepts of what we're doing at the restaurant at
a moves. We'll keep that, We'll keep pushing that more and more further
up up scale, and we'll when we introduced something that I say, lower
scale, but it's something less price point that we can that everyone can enjoy
and come pure three times a week. And you know, I still have
an wineless. I was still have the same ethos is cookie buying local,
you know, buying seasonal exactly the same as we're doing it a mouse,
but just a slightly different tact. It's always good to have ambition and something
to look forward to. Well, it keeps you going, doesn't It keeps
absolutely Kevin, what's the challenge is what what and what the industry faces restaurants
And I think for me, I think we we started our business at the
peak time where the energy crisis was was was it was really ravaging, I
think, and you know, I'm to me we would obviously it's hard,
it was hard to wear a high risk, high risk restaurant. Were a
lot of you know, energy companies only taking anyone on. So we anyways
got a deal and I think they're say that was very difficult to pay.
And you know he had to make a lot of money to try and just
pay your electricity. It will never win anything else. And then the government
don't really give you anything at all. We obviously the bat's a big thing,
obviously costs your bat into your your menu price. But I think,
you know, to make we think that people think we're expensive because you know,
people don't realize you need to give twenty percent of that back to the
batman before you do anything. And then obviously the rates again you know in
England, I know it's a big burroer or my brothers in England, they're
they're getting a rebate of seventy five percent. We're in Scotland, we don't
get anything, and and and the frustrating thing is the government. You know
that the British government have gave the Scottish government the money to fat to this
this end, so I don't know where the moneys went or I don't know
why the industry is not getting that rebate a seventy five percent, which is
really frustrated because you know, if you cross the border in Carlisle or so,
you know you're going to get seventy five percent less in your rates,
which is just ridiculous that this, you know, the amount of people that
employed within the Scottish hospitality industry and have to sponge all this together and it's
going to be catastrophic in the next couple of years if people don't or the
government such don't really help or be seen to be helping the industry, especially
when the twenty percent that was less during COVID it was down. Yeah,
I think that really helped kick start a lot of business or really give them
some breeding space maybe you know, to make things cheaper. I mean,
the whole thing about doing that was to help people get out. And if
we reduce our vat reduce our prices and you know that, you know,
and people that can can just afford to go. It can maybe go once
or twice a month, you know what I mean, because we can load
our prices the government. You know, we obviously don't make as much money,
but it really kicks starts the the industry. You know, even if
it was twelve and half percent would may be something. But I think,
you know, this twenty percent is just ridiculous and I think it really inflates
our prices to people think although people think we're expensive, but you know,
people don't really realize that before you're dealing, you give twenty percent back to
the government, well quite often and various tax formats with income tax and that
various government throughout the world. When they've reduced the tax rate, their income
has actually arisen. Yes, I think so. Yeah. I mean they've
just got to be you know, in this day and age, they've just
got to be realistic and what people have prepared to pay to go out.
And you know you can see that with the with the with the pub trade
in Scotland. I think you know, I don't know how many pubs close
and reference close, you know, in a weekly basis, but I think,
you know, people we never had wcly the The COVID never really affected
us, but we started straight after COVID, where you know, the energy
prices were right, people weren't really coming out or they're just choosing to come
out once a month or whenever it may be. But even we just see
it now coming through the restaurant. It's like getting busier. But we need
footfall for us to survive as well, because if we don't have the footfall,
if we don't have the support from the local people and you know,
any tourists in the summer that we get, you know, we're going to
fall fall out of our face as well. And if we don't get any
help from the government. I'm not saying that we have to get help,
but I think it'd be nice to get some help to try and you know,
secure our future within the industry. And you know, I put stuff
back to the industry to help to help young people come. So I mean,
and you know, I'd hate for me to stop doing that because you
know, you go to look after the business and if the business can is
sustained, you know, taking on young people and all falls in its space.
And when you say the I know exactly what you're saying as far as
the Scottish government get the money from Westminster, but in England it's the seventy
five percent rebate to hospitality or just businesses or small businesses or what what is
that? As far as you know, it's it's it's businesses or small businesses.
You know, my brother's been fighting for this and he's got he had
a small gym and hike and he was fighting for the exact this because you
know, Hike's only you know, fifteen miles from the English border, and
he was up in arms because you know, his gym and hike was was
paid tventy five percent more than a pac place just across the border, which
you know, and in the true realistical thing, it's it's it's it's a
lot of money for small businesses to absorb. You know, it just gives
us a fighting chance. But I think I don't know what the Scottish government
because apparently they've been given them money to pass it onto businesses, but it
seems to have either disappeared or I don't know what's what's happened with it,
But then really needs it to give this the support in some way, shape
or form, because a lot of people, a lot of good people,
and I know a lot of restaurants have closed lately, a lot of people
that have worked hard all the life and it just became sustainable anywhere any longer.
I know Stewart, Divine friendly with Stewart. He's the managing director of
the Ashville Fish obviously have to fish and chip trade. And he's very very
vocal on social media anyway, and and he's he's involved in the Federation of
Fish Fryers and they certainly push he certainly pushes it hard. I'm very aggressive
on social media, Twitter and that, trying to get that, trying to
get it across. But as the old problem, who's listening, I just
hope that. I mean, Scotland's got such a great hospitality industry and people
come up from all over the world to come here to you know, and
we're only just now getting some really good restaurants and great hotels, world wide
hotels, you know, world renowned hotels. But we need to try and
support these industries. We need to try and support the people within the industries
because you know, I know the margins that we try and make and they're
very tight. And if we have to give you know more back to the
government or the government takes more, or if the electricity goes any higher.
You know, we are very vulnerable to anything that the government does or which
is a shame because we should be we should be secure enough to run a
business that we can invest in, you know, as I said earlier,
younger people. And if we don't, if we can't afford to the where
does industry go from from here? Do you know what I mean? It's
it's disappointing that there's just no incentive. There's no incentive, and I think
the Scottish government really need to look hard themselves and say, look, we
need to I mean I have not. It's a difference in Aberdeen lately.
You know, visit Aberdeen, Visit Aberdeen, Sure, visit Scotlan. They're
doing a great job to get people here from all over the world, if
it's whiskey, trails or golf. When you know, Aberdeen needs to look
elsewhere from the oil and I think they're actually getting there now. The tourism
numbers are starting to come in. You know, we've got the cruise ships
coming into Aberdeen now, but we're not gonna have any restaurants. Obody else
here to accommodate them unless we get some help from the government, which is
absolutely crazy when you think of it. Yeah, no, that's quite that's
quite concerning, and it's as you say, it's nationwide. That's well Scotland
anyway. Absolutely, if you've don't get deep pockets or a backer or or
or or other businesses that can he can pull from money from other business to
secure that. You know, we're just a very small business and you know
I've done this on my own. It's it's as if we've got puts of
cars sitting there just for a rainy day. You know, we're you know,
we work hard each month to try and make sure we've got enough money
to pay a pay the staff, and then then the batman just comes and
takes his share. Anyway, but I think I think we're very vulnerable to
to global global things and certainly energy. If the advantgy of prices spikes again,
I think we will be very vulnerable. And there's only so much people
who are willing to pay to come out to eat, and we kind of
keep passing on costs to to our guests because it's just unfair and I would
just be would just be priced at the market from the from the and obviously
the national company here as well. It's very difficult for us independence to try
and keep fighting off the costs. Yeah, not one hundred percent. I
mean fishermen are very I like that. I mean their energy bills are just
astronomical. And when I was involved with a good friend of mine, he
had a fishing boat, built a new and in these projections when he was
building it, his sales if he crossed forty thousand a week trip, sorry
for if he grossed forty thousand pounds a trip, his crew had a good
wage, the boat, all the expenses were paid, and he was going
ahead. He sold the boat twelve years and I'd built a new one,
and the last trip of the board, his fuel alone, now the projections
were forty thousand a week and our trip and everything was going ahead. His
fuel bill alone for that trip was forty six thousand. Okay, assem believe
I mean to put in our perspective when we looked at the figures from before
we turn it over. You know, the average electric bill from the restaurant
before we turn over was about fifteen hundred quid a month. And now my
last electric bill, just last month was just under eight thousand pounds a month.
Oh, you just can't sustain that kind of costs. And it's just
until the government does something with a century crisis or I like to call them
other things. But I think, you know, at least Dick Turpin had
a mask. I think I think we really need to look at small businesses
and help them because you know, we're very vulnerable to energy costs and there's
only so much the government can do. But I don't think they're just do
a bl eye, blind eye. I think it's just it's just not acceptable.
Yeah. But although Dick Turpin had a mask, he also robbed the
rich and gave it to the poor. There is that which is certainly not
happening now. No, no, no, I think something really needs to
get done because you don't want any you don't want any more good wrestaurants going
to the wall. I mean, we're lucky, we had a great first
kind of year, and you know our positions are good for the second year.
But I think it's always, you know, I worry, you know,
on a daily basis. They see what we've got in our books,
and you know, you always think it's going to fall off. An edge
or a cliff, and I've just got to keep enough money in the bankats
month to pay the staff and anything else is a bonus because you know it's
you know, you don't make a lot of money in this trade. You
know, we're about pleasing people. But if all these factors don't align themselves
anytime soon, and there's a lot more good people going to go to the
wall, which is such a shame because people work hard. You know,
references that have been going for twenty thirty years or falling left, right and
center until someone really takes a wake up call to see what's going to happen,
we're all going to be in the dishment of the government. Really,
it's terrible. It's such negative energy as well being used. And you're say
in there that you're concerned about the future, concerned about keeping staff and things
like that, when your time should be spent. What's your next product and
what's your next men? You and exactly that. I mean, I know
they've done a lot of Aberdeen. I know Bob Keeler's doing a lot of
things in Aberdeen to try and kick start Union Street, but I mean we're
not we're not getting any at all of that. But and we're not far
from the Union Street. But I mean, I think there's the should be
more initiatives like that, but it shouldn't be private people that come in to
do that. The government should be taking that. I should do for that.
They should be forward thinking and thinking how can we you know, you
look at look at Aberdeen and the oil. I mean, I was,
you know, I've been here ten years in the oil has always been kind
of slump since I've been here. But I think they really need to think
and how they can they can regenerate Aberdeen. And I think they're thinking about
it now, but they should have done it ten years ago. But I
think the Aberdeen Council are so backward thinking. And you know, Aberdeen should
be a thriving city for the amount of money that's came through the city and
in the last fifty years, but it's you know, it's probably one of
the the can see yourself any high streets pretty poor now. But I mean
the amount of money that's came through Aberdeen, Aberdeen Town Center or you know,
there should be booming. It should be amazing looking. But I don't
know where all that money's went or it's just been you know, and I'm
saying it's the council's fault by any stretch. It means, but something went
terribly wrong over the last fifty years here, Yeah, which is which is
a shame because it was a granted city, lovely buildings and we just don't
want to see boards up in the windows. Yeah, I mean, and
you see that. I mean that they are now. I mean I went
down the Queen's Road every day and there are people now, they are.
The for sale signs have gone. There is there is a bit of of
there's people purchasing things, buildings and doing them up. So it's always a
good side to see things like that. But I think it's only a few
years before we get back to where I think we should be. But you
know, the government could easily kick started a little bit quicker, I think,
and just you know, be a bit forward thinking to see how they
can, how they can regenerate this and in the hospitality can certainly do that.
You know, we are you know, I don't know how many people
un employed in Aberdeen and in the hospitality sector, but it's a lot and
it's only going to keep growing if the oil d windows. We need to
We need to put the hospitality in the forefront because, as I said earlier,
we're going to get cruise ships, We're going to get American golfers,
we're going to gate Norwegian golfers. We're going to get all over the world.
Want to come and play Aberdeen because we'll come to Saint Andrews. The
want to come to Alberdin now because we've got some great courses here, We've
got some amazing world class whiskey trails, and we just need the hospitality to
fit in with that. And I think you know, we're seeing little nuggets
are good restaurants popping up, some amazing hotels that are that are here.
But we need to keep them all here because all these people are going to
come hopefully, and we need someone to get them beds, we need someone
to feed them, and we need to give them good hospitality. It's it's
awful when you just listening to what you're saying there and equality. You know,
it's a quality market. It's great products of fantastic golf courses. I've
played Royal Aberdeen and Saint Andrew's. You're as you say, the whiskey trail,
it's all high end quality stuff and it's really disappointed to think that it's
the actual what they're holding it all back. Is that our Scottish government,
who should be at the forefront of promoting it. Yeah, they should see
that. I mean they're quick enough to take the all money and run,
but I think they need to really invest in Aberdeenshire if they want to try
and keep the amount of people employed here, because you know, it's it's
a great place to live and it's a great place to work. But I
think, you know, light oil, I think they really need to take
the blow by the horns and see are we going to make this a world
wild destination because you know, before I keep Aberdeen, why would he come
to Aberdeen if we did it weren't associated in oil. You know, they're
they're putting all the money into the whiskey trails, the the golfs are coming
online. You know, there's there's there's everything here and your doorstep, and
we just need to shout about it. But we need the infrastructure here within
restaurants and hotels to accommodate these people that want to come here and make it,
you know, just as good to go anywhere as an Aberdeen shut and
Andrews. You know what I mean, because you know even five has got
some amazing places. Edinburgh went up against Edinburgh, a world class city.
You know, if you want any deciice of that hospitality market, we need
to make it appealing for to come. Kevin, Yeah, I was a
Royal Dornich. I'm now a member of the a proud member of the Caithness
and Sutherland Seniors Golf and we're playing in Dornich just a couple of month ago,
and it's just taking me to my front of my mind. Exactly what
you said there, because as we were getting organized and getting our tea times
and clubs and bags and all that ready, at the front, there was
two Americans chating to each other. They weren't together, but they obviously met
up and they were asking each other where they've played, and just exactly what
you said. One of the guys turned to his mate the other and said,
I've been in I've played Saint Andrew's, I've played Royal Alberdein and now
I'm playing Royal dorn Yeah. And then people and they'll travel because they want
to have that experience, I mean, and we need to be Albertinchan is
to be just as good as is that islands and islands which is just as
good as Edinburgh, just as good as his wife, because we need to
make it appealing for people to come and spend their money here, because the
people do spend a lot of money to come across to Scotland, and and
it is an expensive country to come u I suppose you know, to play
the golf course is expensive, the whiskey is expensive. So we need we
need places that they can come in and dine and you know, enjoy the
whiskey and enjoy there at each other's company when they're here. So I think
we need that needs to be the forefront of the local government and obviously the
national government as well, and enjoy the food they'll enjoy is local Scottish food.
Well that's what they try and try. And I mean it's like anything
if you go on holiday, you know, to spend whatever, you always
look for the You don't go to the big restaurants that selve the all day
English breakfast. You try and find out that the local beautiful restaurant that served
the local local fair because that's exactly when they got You want to try and
get a piece of Spain when you're there, so we find when the Americans
come, when the Scandinavians come, they're looking for resturs just like ours that
I've got the nice whiskeys that were not there were knows about the whiskeys that
we compare the whiskeys with the local you know fish that we get from from
peter Head and scrub Store and and and the sculptrom Martine. And that's that's
exactly what we're trying to do. And I think that's what you know.
We need to keep that going and need to try and shout about Aberdeenire because
they'll go away and tell them they go back to America or Norway or Japan,
wherever they might come from. I'd say they had a great time in
Scotland and then they'll come back, and that's what we want. I'm just
thinking from what you're saying there, if they come to your restaurant with the
time, they get their cut on the VAT rate and the tax that would
pay on the whiskey as well as well to be frightening to think how much
of it all goes to the government, which is why I always say we're
just a cash cow for the government. Anyway. Yeah, but it's just
holding it back, and it's it's a shame. It's really opportunity. It's
sad. It's sad that they don't have the vision to see it themselves.
Yeah. Well, hopefully, I think there's enough. There's enough, there's
enough noise now. I think that the government needs need to even to start
listening would be a good thing. And then you know, I think if
you lose any other good restaurants, I think they really need to stand up
and do something, because you know, we the idea that I might come
and say, well, what's the point. You know, I've just coming
up. I'm just working to pay to pay the staff. I'm not get
anything out of it. Or you know, there's only so much loyal that
you could do to the to the to the to the industry that you can
keep going. I'm not saying that I will do, but I mean there
might be a day that if the government doesn't intervene any time soon, you'll
say, well why should I bother? And then you know, if I
close, it's it's it's it's a shame because there's there's twenty staff depending on
me, you know, gett out of bed every morning and making it,
making it work, and making it work for them, and you don't get
any help but whatsoever from from from from anywhere, from the government, which
is is it's such a crying shame. And you can see my my tones
kind of changed to the to the bubbly guy. I was elier when we
were talking about halibut and turbot and Langstein's and scallops. Well, it's yeah,
but it's it's all relative. And it's terrible that that is, that's
that is the case, because they are it is a stifle in fact,
that it's stifling ambition and the ambition and people like yourself. Yeah, the
biggest shock I didn't get, Gyman is you know, you know, I
was never a businessman by anyone on any means, but you kind of fall
into it and and I think, you know, you've got to have your
finger onats past. And you know, we did have a great year and
we did make a little bit of money. And then I found out that
the government take twenty percent of that too, and I was like, well,
thanks, it's just and you pay the corporation to that, which I
think is all a bit a bit wrong really, to be honest, because
you work hard to try and try and make a bit of money to try
and invest in only you know, we invested all the money that we could
back into the business and then the guy comes along and takes another twenty percent
off you, which is just totally ridiculous. But anyways, that's a learning
cup for you as long as I have been every morning, and focus on
what we need to do and keep up with water. And if we can
get through this, you know, the next couple of years to where we
are just now, and if the government does give us a better relief for
a better you know, a bitter less tax, I think we'll we'll benefit
us all in the long term. Yeah, but it's I hope the messages
go out and the trade bodies shoot shoutloaded. Yeah, we just need to
lobby the government more and just be more active and a bit more aggressive and
and demand that we get someone to listen to us, because, as I
say, we kind of keep sustending these these costs any any any any longer?
Well, thank you, Kevin. I think we'll wrap it up at
that and wish you the best and hopefully all this turns changes and it's all
positive. Come in and I'm sure we will, even getting the leg of
the rate rebate that. It's not like you're wanting something that nobody else has
it did, something that doesn't stop on the border. Yes, I mean
there's a lot of things we could stop at the border, but I think
I think that's one of them we don't and I think it just makes it
a level playing field for for us in Scotland to try and you know,
do what we do in Scotland and welcome tourists and locals to a restaurant.
I think if we get any any little help would be great, But I'll
keep working hard as long as the canty makes make it a success. And
I'm quite sure, as you said earlier, if you want to do it,
I'm quite sure we'll be fine. Yeah, well hopefully, And it's
good that you're keeping a positive view on it. Although it's against tide as
far as the government are concerned, no, I should They shouldn't be.
They shouldn't be against you. No, no, no, should be encouraging,
encouraging you and helping you. Yeah, and fight. It shouldn't be
keep fighting, it should be keep working together. Yeah, yeah exactly,
But until someone really listens, Yeah, much further. Yeah, keep at
it. Have you heard the saying we make better grandparents and parents because by
then we have more time? I hope. So I let you taking a
restaurant on at fifty in never mind, put over the years when you've done
years. I was fifty two and it opened. It just I've got two
years on you then, Joe, great stuff,