Hello, Welcome. This is Seventh Sanctum and I am Kerry Anne and tonight
I am being joined with Natalie, who is co host over at Seventh Sanctum.
You haven't met her yet. Actually, our official introduction of Natalie has
an aired, but this is a special that we're doing for Halloween before it
would be a good idea for us to get together and for us to be
able to give us or give you our take of Halloween and the things that
we've learned along the way, including in some interesting superstition and the origins.
But just quickly, before we get into things, I'm gonna let Natalie have
a bit of a chat and tell her a little bit about who she is.
We have done this already, you just don't know it yet. So
Natalie's going to introduce herself a little bit and then we get stuck right in.
Thank you Natalie for joining me, So all right, my pleasure.
I'm Natalie. I've agreed to co host with Kerrie and I can waffle on
about paranormal for like probably all day. But whether it's any sense or not
is we'll have to, like the listeners decide for themselves. Yeah, I'm
sort of like a little bit more on the spiritual slash psychic side than the
paranormal side. But I do like paranormal. I've just got in into it
in the last few years. So it's to be interesting to co host this
show so that I can talk about interesting new things to me, even if
it's not to anybody else. Even in our last conversation that we had,
I learned a lot, So I know that we have lots of interesting conversations
with each other and other people that join us, and it would be a
good journey. So I'm glad that I'm able to do this with you,
and I'll look forward to all those all those amazing things. So Halloween,
Halloween is this week. Yeah, special time of the year, the only
time of the year better than Christmas, absolutely, and it's definitely a time
for the weirdos to shine. That makes me the happy. We are the
weirdos. That's it. I was making a slight not there to the craft
in the house, but yeah, we are the weirdos. But yeah,
absolutely, I love Halloween. I live for it. It's always Halloween in
my soul. My most favorite thing about Halloween is when the Halloween decorations go
into South so I can start adding to my household esthetics the year round.
It we do the annual sale at Halloween so that we've got the year around
decorations because you can't get ghosts the rest of the year and the pumpkins and
things. So yeah, I've already started checking out Saints Streets and some really
good stuff this time around. I was like, oh, that's cool.
I like that mug. Oh, I like that little light up ghost that
will look nice on my shell. And yeah, they've got some massive there's
got a massive sur in there at the moment. I particularly love the throw
cushions, and that's not just there, it's a couple of other shops.
There are some beautiful throw cushions this year. And I love fluffy blankets as
well, so I might have gone overkill. So you're going to be buried
under blankets all winter then basically like ten different bankets exactly, and they've got
goals and they've got all sorts on them, so it's not a better blanket
to be bound, to be fair, it's all mine's only just gray and
fluffy. I want schools on mine. I've got I'll have to show you
off camera when we're finished. But I have the most amazing It's got all
sorts on it, Wigi on it, and wig letters and numbers all over
it, and yeah, so yeah, it is my most favorite thing today
is to go into set the Halloween soles and seeing what else I can have
for the rest of the year. I'll tell you. One thing that does
annoy me about Halloween and Christmas though, is that I think we should ban
Christmas before on Fire Night. Because I went in the other day because I've
seen a T shirt with a Sugar school on it, and I was like,
oh, that's really nice. When I get paid, I'll go and
get it, and all the Halloween clothings disappeared already. I was really upset,
and I was like, I don't want Christmas stuff. I want to
black tissue with the school on it. Yeah, thank you moment Halloween.
This is a movement. I can get behind that, Elie. I can.
I can. I should make a religious holiday so they cannot intrude on
it. It should be barred until afterwards. It's funny to say that because
technically it is a religious holiday. It just isn't. It is technically a
religious holiday. However, I don't know how far we could go by saying
no no crosses until after thank you. Yeah, but I think that's a
good place to start because some of the things so Halloween as what we know
now is the Christian name or Hello's Eve, but pre Christian it's sewing has
always been a big part of in England as well, So a lot of
people meaning were speaking before Natalie where I believe that the origins of Halloween comes
from America. Yeah, but I always thought it was really Americanized because we
didn't actually have Halloween when I was younger, so you know, it was
only when I went to UNI, like in the sort of like aiding myself
a bit, but early nineties and that, you know, you'd go out
on Halloween and dress up, but the trick or treatings thing we never did.
So I always thought it was an Americanized holiday thing because it was just
a way of selling sweets and pumpkins because obviously in England we don't generally grow
pumpkins. So I was like, where's this come from. It's a bit
weird, and then it just seemed to have taken off. But my friend
was Scottish from Fife and she was really she was a lot bigger on Halloween
than I was, and she used to get really annoyed with me because we
didn't do Halloween where we were at the time. Yes, if you'd like
to, oh, just as an aside, sorry, it's like, how
do you pronounce is it sam hayne or so oyen or I've never known how
you pronounce it sooen swyn sown Okay, thank you. So because it's Celtic,
it's not it's not one that you can say spelling out, it's not
phonetically said. So essentially the way that I see it is s o w
w i n swyn win Okay. Yeah. For years I've always been like,
I don't even know how to pronounce that, so no, I know,
thank you. So essentially it is the Celtic fire festival and it is
to acknowledge the end of the harvest season as essentially it's welcome in the new
year. So that's kind of what it what it is, what it was,
And when you think religion or belief before pre Christian a lot of it
was pagan and that's why a lot of the late holidays you can trace back
to paganism. Uh so yeah, so it was basically there to kind of
honor this this time of change where we went. So essentially they split the
year back in the day in the day, yeah, eighty four years,
not a film film reference there. So they split the year into two parts
that had the light light year of the year, like the half that was
of light and then half of that was that was dark. And essentially,
so when was the middle was the day between the two. But you can
trace it all throughout the history. So before it was pre Christian which was
all hallow z which is basically for Christians, it was the praying. Basically
it was the celebration of the saints that they didn't really have enough room or
enough days in the year to be able to honor otherwise, if that makes
sense, So that day would be all saints. They've got quite a lot
of saints, haven't they. Some of the inspections of Christianity have a lot
of saints. So they could do that day to honor them saints. So
again they're still crossovers there because they would pray and they would honor and whereas
paganism it was about honoring our ancestors and those that weren't that are no longer
with us, and It's interesting actually at the different perspectives people have depending on
the perspective they have in life and belief. Probably get into that a bit
more later, but for example, like with the Irish, it was celtic
in and then for which also is summer end, and then you had Winter's
Night for Nors paganism, and then you had as well Anglo Saxons would call
it the blood month. So all throughout history they had Can it say that
sounds a little bit You're like, oh, yeah, blah blah blah blood
months, because you know, I'm not even sure why they do. You
know, why they called it the blood months? Where is that one?
Then I didn't do what I want to know, I'm not sure. So
from what I've learned, from what I've looked at, there's common themes throughout
all of them, right, So in all aspects, all hellos or so
in sorry, it's about being able to celebrate, to be do you too?
They've harvest all this food because the end of harvest and it's about you
know, for some aspects it would be that it would be the end of
their hunting, the end of their war, the end of their their harvest,
and it would be family community and everyone comes together. That is what's
familiar across all of them. But essentially October going into the darker months represent
death and illness and famine and you know, lots of lots of really not
so great stuff. So that's essentially why I was referred to as the blood
month. Because from my understanding, I could be wrong. If I am,
I'll welcome that. Bring it to me, teach me your ways.
I was going to say, if you think about it, it does make
sense because I was reading a book on Vikings a little ago, and it's
like they tended to stop reading once it started getting like more winter as a
general rule. So you've got like the slaughtering of your animals and the curing
of the meat, and that you've also got them coming home from wherever battles
and fights and arguments they've been having. So I suppose, in a weird
kind of way, there's that transitionary thing between like you say, you've got
your life, your death, your harvest, and your sudden lack of things
to grow, But then you've also got the cultural thing going on, where,
like you say, there's a change because like the Vikings used to go
back home to basically sort of you know, homestead farm go out the winter,
set their crops in the spring, and then they went off raiding again.
So I suppose in a weird kind of way, if you've got a
sort of nomadic type culture, that would make sense because there's a lot going
on at this time of year. It's because they're all settling in for the
winter. They thinking about I think they're in themselves for what could be quite
really again, when you look at All Hallows, yeah, All Hallows Eve,
when they're starting to pray to the Saints honor and the Saints on that
day, when you think that a lot of the time in the winter months,
a lot of people were just hoping to get through to the spring because
of the fact that there was no So you have this this kind of festival.
This is the so the harvest festivals of the Celtics. For the Celtic
Festival, this was the third and last harvest of the year. So they
had all this abundance of food, abundance of you know, family, abundant
all the family, all the communities together. People have come back from war,
people have come back from radiing. I don't know, everyone's back home
and they're sharing their stories and this is where your folklore comes from, and
this is where so you have all of this community stuff happening, where you've
got abundance of everything, but they're also that stark reality of knowing that that's
not always going to be the same. For the next couple of months,
there is a lot of a lot of famine, a lot of illness,
a lot of unrest, you know, and think it's that people were actually
looking at the more the morality then you know, like so no matter what
perspective you go back from them, no matter what perspective you stand upon,
like where your beliefs are, or even what era you're in, that remains
the same throughout. So it's it's it's just I find that very interesting.
Actually, I suppose becoming darkness as well, because I mean, this is
the time of year when suddenly the nights are longer and you can't go out
and do a lot in the same way, especially not before electric so you
know, you were stuck at home and with your thoughts a lot more,
and you see the darkness, and I suppose it has its own character and
temperament, particularly when you link it with winter, so you It is quite
transitional time of year, isn't it. I suppose there's a lot. There's
a lot of going on sort of mentally and psychologically as well as physically,
and like say, emotionally you know, with the community thing and then the
worry and fear, but the thank goodness, we've got harvests as well,
so that we've got something to live on. But we can also see so
that's really isolating and kind of but you can also see the effect that has
within communities, like when you look at the witch trials. A lot of
the time, when you look at these pockets of trials that happened around UK,
let's just say the UK alone, a lot of them happened in an
area that was kind of experiencing adversities more than one, you know, so
it could be that they're in an economic crisis one. You know. For
example, there was also a time where it was going on during the Cold
War and there wasn't a lot of trade coming through in the cities that you
know, used to have the boat trays and stuff coming in, so all
these things. When people were starting to get desperate, when they were having
barren crops and no no resources, they turn on one another and and like
start when there isn't any real logical explanation and it can't be fixed, people
are usually or it's observed to have you know, turned to unrational, illogical,
supernatural explanations. So you can see how that has that when it has
on the person when they turned each other, So you can see how that
could affect them in the like you said that the light and the dark,
can that affects someone mentally in the later years for them to go through this
really kind of like joyous in the cape for then it to be quite dark.
And you know the blood month, you know, yeah, you always
call it the blood months? Now, do you know what I think?
Bring it back to say that I say that not I feel like I know
that's why it's called it. If it isn't and there we are promoting it,
then an apology message out. We retract their statement we did not believe
what we were saying that all because I've never heard that. Did you say
it was a northern pagan thing? It was Anglo Saxon, Anglo Saxon.
Okay, yes, blood monk, that would be interesting. But it's got
lots of different names and it only become all hallows Eve Christian. It's when
the Christians then applied it and that's when it becomes all hallows Eve. So
then we look at like the traditions that we have today and how those could
have progressed through time because we can and we see how it almost shape shifts
really name wise, and how it applies to different belief systems or within that
community, how it's relevant to them. But there is lots of things that
remain the same. So customs that we have today, you can see where
the origins have come from, although it probably isn't the same now exactly the
same. You can see where the origins come from. Like, for example,
we do pumpkin pumpkins now and it's probably common knowledge while we do pumpkins,
and it might not be for some. So I've always believed that depending
on what you carve into your pumpkin, what you carve into your pumpkin depends
on who you want to attract or who you want to repel from your home.
So if you put a scary face on it, then you're trying to
ward off evil spirits. And if you put a happy face in it,
then you're trying to bring in positive vibes and good energy. And one thing
I haven't mentioned, which is fundamental to it all, is Halloween, or
is the thinning of the vowel. So it's the the time where the spirit
world and the earthplane, the earth weld, has its highest connection. And
again that's all what that is observed throughout when you think when you with the
All Hallows Eve, they believe it's the closest that you become to that other
other world. So when they do these pumpkins with scary faces in, they're
trying to scare away from the wandering spirits that might be wishing ill harm on
their house. But then obviously the happy face you want to bring happiness and
good vibes and good spirits in. But that didn't start as pumpkins. It
actually started off as turnips. Turn it to be able to do it car
turn it, It's like, yes, I know, did they actually cart
turnips? Yes? The cars? Yeah, that The Celtic tradition is that
they were calf turns. And I could only liken that to like trying to
cut up a sweep tatoe, which is a feet within itself. Did they
put the lights in them as well? Or did they Were they just carving
faces on it? Were they actually carving them like we carve a pumpkin to
put a light in it. Yes, that's impressive if that is the case,
Yeah it is. But yeah, so that's that's where the tradition comes
from. So it's something that we've always kept for as long as time has
gone on. But from my understanding for what I've learned is that it depends
on what kind of So when you see a pumpkin that's got the uggy boogie
man in it like mine, the very conflicted, very confusing for spirits because
people get a lot more inventive now and what they carve into their pumpkins.
I saw the other day someone halved in the the photo of the or the
promo for Practical Magic in the front of the pumpkin. Oh wow, yeah,
you get some real creative ones. Now you're thinking, like, I
don't like the smell of raw pumpkin. So to stand in front of a
pumpkin for that long to get like some of the things that people manage to
carve into it, it's just like impressive, kuldst. Anyone that can stand
near a raal pumpkin for that long. Honestly, I would even go as
far as saying, if anyone wants to send in their pictures of pumpkins for
me and Nally to have a look at, we would love that. I
think it's I think it's so some people are so artistic and then they look
it boggles the brain a little bit. It's very impressive. It's like you
do see something that they're like, say, they're like works of art,
and they last for like what they're a week or so, and then they're
just I think I'd cry if that was me, if I spend that much
time doing something that beautiful and then just mind do I suppose that is perfect
Halloween symbology. Yeah, you know, you've got the life and then it's
caving in on itself. So I suppose in a weird kind of way,
that would actually be ritualistically, probably more in keeping with the spirit of Halloween
than a lot of other things. And there's lots of parts of the pumpkin
that you can look at you so, for magic's sake, pumpkin seeds are
really good for any kind of spells. You say, no, I take
that back. Pumpkin seeds are good for spell work, not any spell work.
They're really good for spell work. Though. I have a friend who
absolutely adores roast pumpkin seeds in honey and she loves eating them. And also
I've seen a lot of people when they talk about the one thing I don't
necessarily agree with, and I're going a bit off topic a little bit,
is I think how many pumpkins are grown, manufactured, carved into and then
nothing happens with them a year at Halloween when you think of food waste.
Oh yeah, that's true. That's the only thing. So I would say,
if anyone does have a pumpkin, then taking them out to the woods,
and as long as there's nothing in there that could be poisonous or harmful
to any wildlife, then squirrels and stuff love eating them. Another thing that
I have seen people do, which I think is quite nice, is once
they're finished with their pumpkins, they're letting their young people write a wish on
a piece of paper and they're putting it in the pumpkin and then burying the
pumpkin, which essentially depending on obviously making sure the papers can bury, it
would be great, but you know, it's replenishing the earth, and it's
the nutrients and stuff coming from that. So there's lots of positive ways of
being able to dispose of pumpkins these days rather than just caving. So that's
like me on the night out starts looking wo chs kiss and then by the
end my lashes all up there my face. I should never go out together,
and like look in the mirror when I come home and like, I've
got the pumpkin analogy in my head now. It's like you look like an
old Halloween pumpkin. It's like make smearing and the candle's bin your hair and
exactly exactly it is make here And yeah, the amount of times have come
home and I've got fake lashes on and they're like half hanging off. It's
like stuck to one corner. All the rest is just there living its best
life, ra dog in life. Just so yeah, I'm like, this
is not a vibe. How do I not notice this? That's like when
I was younger, I was like a demigoth, and it's like you go
out in your eyeline and be beautiful, and you come back and you look
like something out of the ring. It's like because everything's just dropped down your
face and you're like, oh my god, I've been going around thinking I
look really lovely and I've got black things all over my face and it's all
it's all fell down my face and look awfever used the conkave? Was it
concave? That's not the right word, is it. The pumpkin starts imploding
on itself. It's not concave. It's sort of it goes concave. I
don't know what the weird do you know what? I know? Implode?
No, that's not really that. I don't know. It's made concave up.
Okay, I know what you mean. My brain's gone dead. I'm
normally really good with big weeds. It's like I'm a really weirdy person.
But my brain's like, yeah, I've got the weirds in. There's some
I might dig it out in about three hours time, you know. It's
like, yeah, it's a bit late now, Well I did it back
in again later. It's all we could do is just record that one word
and then ask Andy just to put it over the top whenever we say it,
some beeping things out. We're adding a little weirdiness. Yeah. So
one of the things we spoke about before as well. If you come across
some really interesting superstitions. I really am interested actually just talk about I mean,
yeah, let's talk about the love stuff, because a lot of one
of the things when you do with Halloween. There's lots of different ways that
you can use the energy of Halloween, some of its ancestry stuff, so
honoring our ancestors and being able to communicate with them. Some people just you
know, light a candle and just honor them that way. Other people do
meditations. It's a great time of releasing anything that doesn't serve you anymore.
And it is essentially the witch's New Year, So anything that you would do
for Ni Year's Eve in terms of resolutions is a great time to do it,
but just you know, with the magical touch of witchcraft. So those
are the kind of things that people do do. But there's some loved ones
that you've come across, isn't it. Yeah. I was looking up Halloween
superstitions and they seem to fall into like about four categories. You've got your
ancestral ghost thing, and you've got your evil spirits thing, your witch's thing,
and then divination for your future spouse. Just like let's just throw it
into the mix. We're thinking about death and the other side, and oh
yeah, you know, if you want to know your future husband, you
can do these really strange sort of slightly one of them is actually a little
bit creepy. There was one I found it was like you take a candle
into a dark room on Halloween and you look into a mirror while eating an
apple that you've sliced into pieces, and when you get to the last piece,
your future husband will appear behind you, asking for that last piece of
apple. And I'm like, if I'm in a dark room with a candle
looking into a somebody comes over my shoulder and takes my last piece of apple,
I'm not sure I want to marry them, because it's like it's like,
you know, it's like, what are you doing in my room here
all the time, or what it's like. Yeah, I found that one
a little bit strange, to be fair. But there was quite a few
about sort of predicting future spouses future spouses, I mean in Scotland as well.
Apparently single women would put hazel nuts next to the fire grate and each
hazel nut was represent a potential suitor, and then wait to see which one
blew up and the one that pott was the person that they would marry,
and they'd say a little there was a little one of them that these aren't
these are good golled so they're not, you know, corroborated, like with
history, so if it's if it's wrong, it's just amusing. But there
was a little rhyme they said, which I thought was again a little bit
mean, but it's like, if you hate me, burn and die,
if you love me, pop and fly. So whichever hazel not pupped was
the was the person that they were going to marry, apparently. And there
was another good one that I quite liked as well. But I feel a
little bit bad about the snail because you're supposed to catch a snail on Halloween
night, lock it into a dish so it can't climb out, and then
in the morning if the snail slime will have written the letter the first letter
of your sweetheart's name in the dish and slime. But I'm like, this
is like Gothic carn Over. It's like, this is so Gothic, you
know, if you're sort of like, let's predict your future husband. You
know, in the summer, everyone's using daisies it's like a Halloween. We're
gonna use snail slide hazel or not and candles in dark rooms. It's just
like it does give. All I'm hearing is that Labyrinth song slam and snails.
Oh yeah, yeah, I used slim and snalls. You've watched labynth,
haven't you? I have. I'm just trying to think which bit of
it that film terrified me when I was younger. I couldn't watch it until
I was about without being scared. Until I was about thirty. It's terrified
me. I don't know why I saw it, and I wasn't even that
young. I think I was about nine or ten. But there was something
about that film that's I mean, I love it now, but the little
what was it the hands in the ubliette thing, Yeah, I don't know.
So, yes, my brain sort of is still a little traumatized about
it. So it's like you have to remind me which dark dance, magic
dance, that one with the baby right where is? Yeah? Yeah,
downstairs and things in them? Yeah? But yeah, no, I mean,
well, there is so much to unpick from all of that. I
think, I mean that I'm interested in the so with the apple apple is
supposed to be quite it's a magical tool. If you were to cut an
apple in half, the sieves kind of it's a five pointed star. So
a lot in a lot of spell work, apples are used. So and
that's always been the same, So obviously that's something that's kind of I didn't
know that because a lot of the prediction ones actually use apples, because I
was going to ask you about that, obviously being more interested in witchcraft.
Because there was another one that if you get an apple or and you peel
it into along the apple peel into a long string brains just around, you
know, if you peel it into a long bit of peel and then you
took it over your shoulder apparently or something, and then the if it makes
the letter that's the letter of your future spouse. And I think that apple
has to be to be able to chuck the pill. I think there's there's
a lot of spouses with C and s, you know, because I was
thinking, well, how would you you know, you wouldn't be able to
get so many letters out of it. So I was just thinking they must
they must all have had like the same five names or something for it to
work properly, yeah, because you're not saying you're going to have an Aaron
or an Amy. No, a lot of like the complicated letters. So
you'd have like a C N S spot you maybe. Yeah, Like if
you weren't very good at peeling, it's like mine would be a very short
one. This would just be like a two inch long stick. So it
must be like cooking apples. You probably have to do this with cooking apples
because like we're little, I can't imagine you've every much of a pill.
But so with any So, apples are linked to love spells, okay,
Yeah, and then the seeds from apples are used in spells as well because
of obviously the growth aspects of it. But there is it's favored because obviously
when you cut an apple in half, yeah, you have the five pointed
star in the middle. But even when I was a kid, I remember,
like you used to have the hold the stem. I'm showing you anyone
can, but you'd hold the stem and you would turn the apple and your
return you'd say a letter. So and then whatever letter the stem broke off
on would be the person that would be your your true love or who you
would marry or and I was I remember, I mean, yeah, I'm
going to be a five and doing some Yeah, I was gonna say,
I think I might get like four apples. Is it tomorrow is yes,
yes, tomorrow night it's I might get four apples. It just sort of
like, try all the different ones to see what I can walk with.
Please do if you can even better, it might spell out at what are
you doing w T F yes, I knowing the spirits in my eyes wouldn't
surprise me in the slightest if I got that. Instead, it was like,
hello, yeah, actually I can understand that I did uh baseline sweep
once in my house before we've done an investigation, and I think I've told
you this already. I might begin dajav but I don't know baseline sweep in
where I lived. I've lived here for a long time and I'd done it
about five years in and I was just like, hello, it is anyone
there? Would anyone like to communicate? Kind of it wasn't. I wasn't
doing anything. I wasn't doing anything with the equipment. I was just doing
like a and I was using the spirit box at the time, so checking
that the speaker was okay, you can checking that. Everything was charged just
having to look and I literally five seconds of me doing that, and I
had in this man's voice as clear as day telling me to f off.
Based why he said it as well. It was like hello, you know
what I mean? And I was like, how long have you been wanting
to say that to me? I was like it was your time to shine
and you took it by both hands, like yes, finally it's time to
tell her. The first ever went under was like about three swear words come
through, and I was like, I didn't love to do that because he
didn't just say that. Everyone just looked at me and I was like,
okay, maybe I'm making it up, but I'm certainly he's just sworn that.
It's in at least three different ways. It's like a paranormal like Dinner
Lady, where you could just go and tell to govern it. It was
just like, I mean, of course it supposed to them being people,
there's no reason why they wouldn't swear at you, but it was it was
just like so innocuous because like you're like always anybody there, it's like you're
just like, okay, that was a night that was Yeah, it was
quite interesting. Yeah, absolutely, Yeah, Yeah, to be fair,
I don't think it's been a lot of time since. Well, it's been
a lot of time, sister. On the gross, I went on one
recently and I had a really not so great experience. It wasn't anything to
do with the paranormal. It just was like a series of unfortunate events just
did not deem the night in great favor. But yeah, it's been a
long time since I've been investigating. But it's been a long time since I've
been an investigation. And there's been swearing from spirit. I haven't had that
for a long time. But then I suppose if think about it, these
locations are so overly investigated, they probably are at their wits ends. They
just get It's like, oh god, it's another yeah, because it's like
obviously, you know, you get some places like soldiers and stuff. I
mean, they swear a lot anyway, So I suppose it does kind of
make sense. Really, they would occasionally get annoyed, And to be fair,
I can have as busy are maybe once a month. I'm happy.
If someone was to turn up one day and the come back the next day,
I would not be impressed. The same questions. It's like serious because
that's where I was like, you know we went, remember where we went?
And I was just like they must get say bored of, like is
there anybody there? What is your name? When did you die? And
it's like start robbing it in that I'm dead with your something else? Anything?
You know? What year is it? I don't care of a spirit.
There's no time yet. Time is a social construct. Yeah, maybe
there'd be a lot more interaction and a lot more evidence if we weren't asking
bring something new, be original as the colourers. Actually that's an interesting one
because everyone sort dreads what do you want to ask in then? And I
was like, I don't know. It's like, well, your favorite color
is a good start. It's like, you know, what's the favorite thing?
What is the last thing you ever ate? And are you happy that
was that? And if you could change it, what would it be?
Yeah, maybe we would have a little bit more interaction and know what,
unless you ask me something else, something different, I'm not talking no more
because you're not listening. No one's listening to me. I do wonder if
that's why, because you know, I don't know if you get the same
thing at locations is like there'll be nothing and then all of a sudden you're
like this storry of activity and they'll have interaction and they'll just disappear and you
can tell they've gone. And it was like because there's no energy, and
I'm thinking, well, maybe they've turned up, hoping that somebody would ask
some something different for a change, and they're like, oh, for God's
sake, let's go back next door. They were just using the table in
there. Let's make that dance. It's like born there, Let's go somewhere
else. Yeah, no, I might try that. I have to see
if with some different different questions and see what happens next time I go on
more. I think it would make it a little bit more interesting for us
as well. And also I know we've digressed massively. This is meant to
be, but I run out of things ask as well, like yeah,
you know, oh you have some name. You're like, oh you know,
how you know? How old are you? How many there is?
How many is there of you? How many is there of us? You
know? How did you die? Or are you here for someone you know?
Or are you here you know? Are you connected to land? And
then after a while, it's like, so what else is you know?
And one of my friends once told me there was somebody following me around in
a flat. He was wearing slippers and he's got a mug. And I
was like, I'm not freaked out way because he's very slippers and he's got
a mug, so you know, unless he's planning and bashing me over the
head with it. And she was like, oh, he's a spirit guide.
He's just adopting that form to sort of like say that he doesn't freak
you out. And I was like, well, having an invisible person following
you around freak me out in my own home anyway a little bit. But
I was just like, can you ask him does he ever visit or the
spirit guides? And do they all sit around the table and or like drink
tea and talk about like their respective charges and what kind of rubbish day they've
had? I said, does he ever go and visit spirit guide friends?
Has he got any friends? I was like, is this spirit guide?
I was like, yeah, But there's a lot of spirit guides, isn't
there. I mean, where did they go? Are they with me all
the time or do they just you know, wait, for the back signal
to go off and they're like, oh God, we better go and help
her out again. You know, it's like she just looked at me and
I was like, I want to know these things. Do they have tea
parties they celebrate their bday? You know? It's like, do they have
spirit guide friends that they go and visit when they're feeling a bit down about
the people that they won't do as they're told in the real wheel. So
yeah, she thought I was a bit mad. Meetings where they go,
right, I have this case and I've tried doing this with them and it's
not worked. And then the other ones go, well have you tried doing
this? Like, oh, I I'll go back have at the same time
next month. Everyone see you there. And then they come back, all
of them bring their little case loads. I reckon, they must have debriefing
and they must go to spirit guide school to learn some new techniques because they're
like, this one is just I cannot get through to it. She's so
stubborn. It's like she knows, how do I have anybody got any ideas?
It's like, yeah, no, but those are questions I asked,
and at that point in time, perhaps she didn't want to interact with it
anymore than she'd just seen it, because she only came around to see if
my house was aunted. She was like, I'm not prepared for this conversation,
and I was like, I want to know. I never did find
the answer, because he disappeared after that, so he's probably, oh my
god, she's onto it gave him away, so a looked quite quick get
away. I think with like spirit guides and stuff and what I've what I've
learned, what I've learned. And again I say what I've learned because I'm
really careful because everyone's got their own interpretation of their experiences and what they make
sense. But what I've learned is that we are we are. We go
through life and we learn lessons, and as we learn our lessons, we
progress. If we don't learn, then we come back and we learn the
same lessons again but in a different way. And you actually see that throughout
life. So if you've got this one person that goes through the same thing
over and over again, it's usually because they've not learned the lesson the first
time. They find themselves back in a situation where they learn it again,
and then they progress. As they learn, they progress and they then then
become the guide. So I think if that is the case, then they
should have a big backlog of previous experience to go by. You must have
to be a really unique case then break them. They need to have like
a meeting to just gather themselves. Surprised my case at all if they have
regular meetings, simple yeah, yeah, because I've never see I haven't seen
anyone like that since I think they're collaborating now, it's not just one.
I think there's quite a few. I think I'm one that I've gone up
to the special. Yes, apparently on Halloween it's quite a good time to
ask spirits for advice. To come back around to the subjective Halloween, but
mainly the advice. Actually it's a slight downer on the vibe a little bit.
But in Wales they used to write their names on white stones and throw
them in the fire and the Halloween fire, and then the next morning,
if the stone wasn't there, they wouldn't make it to the next Halloween.
So it's like, I was just like, would you really want to know?
It's like you, we want to know if you can believe us or
not. So we can be there, but there is a lot of Again,
so with Halloween, there is a real undertone of death throughout anyway.
And I think again it goes back to what it's that facing their own morality,
the fact that they've got all this going on in front of them.
And again I've gone back to it what I've said before, praying to make
it through to spring. So I think it's the not knowing and finding ways
to be able to get one step ahead if something bad is going to happen
that they know. And a lot of the darker traditions of Halloween, a
lot of the ones that are linked to death, is to try and be
what one step ahead, whether it's going to happen or not. But yeah,
there is some really Petunia. So let's talk about traditions that we get
young people to do. Which isn't the white start, the name on the
stone? And do you know what we should bring that back? I cannot?
Do you know why I will say I cannot. I've watched too many
films, Like there was a film a little while ago called count Countdown I
think it was called, and it was about this app that you could download
and it will literally tell you how many days you've got left? Around many
hours you've got left? Have you seen it? Now? I've not heard
of that one. I'm not sure for me to know that, I just
don't want to know. But basically I'm sure it's called countdown On. It
was on Netflix a little while ago. I was watching it, and there's
lots of films. Again, this fascination of knowing when it's going to happen
isn't a new thing at all. It's actually something that has been around for
as old as time. But one thing that has also been around is dressing
up up in in in costumes and stuff. And I saw a post today
talking about how this one person could not get ahead around trick or treating,
how it's just a form of begging, and how we spend all year telling
young people not to take sweeks off for strangers, and then we just dressed
them up and send them to strangers' doors, and it's they're like begging for
sweeks and there's lots of I was trying to get my head up. It
was from that post actually that made me kind of go away and think about
it a little bit more so with dressing up, it's something that people would
do. One to disguise themselves as spirits and monsters so that the walking spirits
wouldn't know that they were living, so they wouldn't affect them in any way.
And then the other one was the adults, and this is in Ireland
as well. Yeah, I think it's an Ireland where the adults address themselves
as spirits so that the fae wouldn't take them, which I know at my
rap ole days we don't mess with the faie. Yeah, so I can
understand, I could I could see, I could see myself doing that for
that reason, to be fair, But there is this other, like sociological
aspect of it. This is something that's been going on pre Christian era,
where people would dress up and they would go and the way that it was
portrayed is like a redisposition redistribution of wealth. So no matter where or what
era you're in, they've always got poor and you've got those that aren't poor.
You know, you've always got that economic divide. And again, this
is the time of year where the harvest has come in, there's plenty of
food to go around. However, that's not how it's always dished out.
So what they would do was they would in lieu of receiving food and treats,
they would dress up or they would perform, or they would you know,
they would sing, or they would tell a joke. And if you
look, that starts a Halloween. But that doesn't finish there, because we
do it at Christmas as well, and it was a way of those that
didn't have very much to be able to be included in that by performing for
those that did have it to spare. And then there was this redisposition re
distribution of this abundance. That's not why we do it now, we do
it now. And also there was also when during the harvest we would leave
food on the doorstep for ancestors. And again that's not just what you see
during Selwyn or Halloween. We see that at the festival of their death first
of all dead, and we see it in Chinese and Japanese cultures as well.
So it's something that you know, we we've always done. So yeah,
we now just have people that are dressing in because that's the thing I
always find it really stranger about Halloween. It's like it's all about aside from
the divination of your future spouses, it's all about death. And yet we
engage the children in it. And I've always found it a little bit unless
they, like you say, the idea was to disguise the children so they
didn't get they didn't attract the ill fortune, you know, sort of like
because it sort of seems I've always I've always been a little bit conflicted about
the idea, like you say that the trick or treat thing, because it
is it is actually quite threatening if you think about it at its core.
I mean, I know it's not taken in that vein now because it's like,
oh, yeah, you're just you know, we're going to give you
seats because we don't want the trick. But it's like, but then I
suppose, like you say, if they were afraid of what might happen,
and the fact that spirits and evil spirits and things like that walking, if
the children are dressed up like that, then they can't come to harm in
the same way. So I suppose they have to behave a little bit yeah,
you know, sort of like not devilish, but you know this sort
of like you know that sort of I could go one way or the others
in order to disguise them. So I wonder if that there is some subconscious
thing and play there maybe I agree. I agree. And also if you
actually look at the costumes from then, they are yeah, yes, I
mean now you've got you know, a sexy cat or you know, a
devil in some hot pants and push up ra Whereas then they look like someone
had removed the face of another person and then put it on and they were
just like you like, wearing it as a I don't know, it was
so weird. It's so they're so weird and peculiar. And even then when
you look at the Easter bunny like photos, oh god, yeah, yes,
there's two shots, the one with the two kids sitting on the eastern
bunnies like insidious or something, I don't know, and it's just like,
yeah, I can't see that image since I saw that this year. It's
just like I'm like, that's Halloween all year round. That it's just sort
of like, yeah, yeah, because thedn't they have them, you know
with the trick or treat things they used to allow the kids to run a
bit riot didn't they In some areas? I think I think they were allowed
to knock on doors and run away and stuff, you know, do that
classic one. I think they did the trick. I think the trick,
I think, yeah, I think they would do tricks. I'm not too
sure about the running away. I think the idea was for them to be
able to get goodies, and then obviously that was more like driven by the
fact that they didn't want to treat. And I suppose I don't know what.
I haven't come across of what treat the tricks used to be. Sorry,
I haven't come across what they something I read last night where I think
it was a Scottish one where they had the turnip lanterns and the sort of
like lads were allowed to run riot a little bit on the Halloween night and
they used to knock on doors and run away and stuff. But there wasn't
any more to the superstition, so I couldn't really look into sort of like
what the point was unless it was, like you say, been making the
dead knocking on the doors and not being their typling just to everyone. Now
it's hard to tell when you research via Google. But I was not going
to go into the scholarly because I was ten years for that. But yes,
I know it was a little bit of a random one, but Yeah,
it just I just thought it was funny because I say that you could
understand sort of like the adults a little bit. But I've always found it
a bit odd that we may unless that is where the americanized thing comes in,
where it's about the kids. You know, it's treated as a holiday,
not as a slightly more serious festival of the dead. It's it's actually
a day of the kids and candy. You know, when the symbolism has
gotten hidden a little, Well, it's there, but the symbolism of it's
become sort of divorced from the originally tench I don't know. I puts it
every year, to be fair, its strength. One of the things that
it has kept is it's always been performative. There's always been an element of
That's one thing that's remained I think even I mean, I've had a few
conversations about Halloween over the last couple of weeks, and actually telling someone that
it's actually a Celtic festival, not an American festival is often one that people
are like really like, yeah, absolutely it is. But I think the
way it's presented is I think it's less about the significance. It's less about
what it truly represents and what it has and more about the from what we
see. What I'm trying to say is the version that we are exposed to
through different means of media isn't the extent of what it truly means. It
is about trick or treating. It's about overeating overindulging. It's about being able
to dress up and you know, and go to such extremes. Now when
you look at the extents of people go through modification and the pumpkins, it's
not about warding off spirits and bringing prosperity. It's about who's as who could
be the most creative and artistic. So it is, it has moved away
massively. But I think what I like about it all is it still exists.
Though within that narrative it still exists. So all these traditions that have
been trying to that have been stomped out, that are you know, not
wigdhing as being significant till holidays or that holiday. Should I say that festival
is still like the bare bones of it, it's still so so real and
so apparent. Yeah, it's almost like there's a genetic memory of it that
is still and the undercurrent I suppose is a little more obvious at Halloween than
other times of year, that that sort of you know, because you know,
you go, oh yeah, it's all about trick or choosing and candy.
But actually you are always a little bit scared on Halloween night because you
never quite know, and there is that slight on the current of you know,
a fear there, I suppose, and you're known it does. And
I think as well with some of the superstitions. I know that one of
the superstitions that we spoke about earlier was talking about running around backwards from your
house around your house. Oh yeah, yeah. I was like, I'd
have trouble with that because I'm in a quarterhouse, so I can only walk
backwards at the front of it. But if you walk counter clockwise three times
backwards around your house before sunset on Halloween, it protects it from evil spirits.
Which is really interesting because if you for example, and again this is
like where do these come from? Where do these origins of these superstitions come
from? If, for example, near me, there's a church in Canudan.
Canudon is in Essex, and it's meant to be. It's got a
steep history in occultism and witchcraft, and in particular, there is a church
in Canudan that is alleged to have a lady that he's been buried there who's
a witch and to again, you know when you do Bloody Mary and you
you know you say these names three times in this particular time, you have
to run around the church three times calling her name, and then she'll make
herself known to you. So again these suppositions they leak and they and again
you're supposed to do that, and all hallowes they meant to do it on
Halloween as well. So do you run forwards three times around the church?
You call up the witch. So if you were going backwards three times around
the church, you almost like anti spelling it in a weird kind of way.
Is that do you think where it might possibly come from? It's like
a counter counter spell. Possibly possibly, I would be like try running three
times around the church then absolutely not absolutely, like yeah no, even that,
I don't know. Absolutely. I love going on investigations. I love
investigations, but I also am very aware there's something you just don't do,
just you don't miss with some things. Just like literally there's no reason to
we don't need to know certain things, like it's good to have suposition.
It's like, you know, it's a really, really, really bad analogy,
But I don't need to see Santa Claus to know that Christmas is a
real thing, you know, and everything this about, Like I can enjoy
Christmas, you know, for what it is in terms of center without actually
seeing real center. So I can appreciate the church and everything that comes with
it without being in the presence of such energy, I guess. But yeah,
and that is a really fascinating I go off on a tangum that church
is a really fascinating church with lots of fascinating people linked to it as well
in terms of witchcraft and the area as well. Canudan is such a really
beautiful place, but it's really linked to a lot of Colism and witchcraft and
fascinating. But that's what that reminded me of, because again, it's like,
where do these superstitions come from. I know that we've spoken about before
when we talk about the witchcraft trials and how people used to lure witches to
be able to break hexes. They would create witches bottles for them to make
the witch so uncomfortable to be able to bring the witch to them so they
can barter, or there was an exchange of blood. I don't exactly,
I just know that there needs to be like an element of blood to be
able to break it in accordance to this theory. So essentially they're the people
that are trying to condemn witchcraft. Is partaking in witchcraft. Yeah, the
irony, but you can see where elements of some things are taken and then
using others. And that's what I was thinking about. Yeah, have you
got any other any other superstitions that are jumping out for you before I share
my last tipbit, I've got a couple too little. Well we got around.
I was going to say, I'm aware of the time there was a
couple that I thought was a bit strange, And there was one like you
know how everyone's most of Halloween is about not seeing witches and witchcraft and evil
spirits and things. And there was one where if you wear your clothing inside
out and walk backwards on Halloween, you will see a witch at midnight.
And like you say, with the origins of it, I'm like, I'm
not entirely sure if everyone's so frightened of witches a y would you want to
see one? And why would that specific combination of you know, wearing clothes
inside out things come from or are you just sort of like freaking the witch
out that much they have to go and have a look and see what's going
on. Yeah, yeah, you know. And but then you say,
you've got the walking backwards thing in it, So I mean, you know,
like say, is it a counter the counter thing because you've got walking
backards around your house to protect it from evil spirits, but you've got walking
back with them to sea witch. So it's which you know, obviously you
know, are culturally seen as being bad, although you know obviously it's not
that cool and dry. But yeah, there's Oh and there was another one
I found was quite interesting. I'd love to see a paranorl investigator attempt.
This one was if you walk around a ghost nine times, you will make
it disappear. I'd like to try and pin down a ghost long enough to
walk around it nine times to make it disappear. It's like, because they
don't stay there that long. So I thought that was an interesting one.
I was like, well, yes, because it will have wandered off by
the time you've walked around it nine times, So that's like a distraction,
that is, that is an impressive manifestation for it to appear objectively to everyone
for a period of time where that person go, no, no, no,
don't you go anywhere around you and watch just magic it's around I'm trying
to do. Yeah. Wow, I found the best Halloween supersisi I found
before I forget is the one about the blackberries, the Irish one. Apparently
it's bad luck to eat blackberries after Halloween because and Irish goblin like spirit called
it. I think it's Pooka comes out on Halloween and defiles the blackberries,
so you're not to eat blackberries after Halloween. So I'm not sure if he
goes around licking them all or finger in them or not. But I mean,
you just imagine on board this Halloween. I'm just gonna these blackberries of
mine now I've licked it, you know. So yeah, that was the
best one I've found. I was like, aside from the walking back was
on. I mean there are other ones about like how to tell if there
are spirits and things around, like you know, spiders and bats and things.
But yeah, but yeah, the best one I thought was the snail
slime predictor, and the blackberries eberries. In our summary for this show will
be the Irish goblin, don't eat don't eat blackberries after midnight on Hello and
wait wait till when it went until spring? Well on Halla it says don't
eat them after Well, if you think about it, I suppose the blackberries
disappear off the bushes after a bit because obviously coming into winter. So I
assume don't eat the existing blackberries after Halloween, every blackberries ever again after Halloween,
because every single black has been licked by an Irish goblin. And that's
why they go from the tree. You say, because the goblin is just
there. Interesting you what, Sorry, I've not heard those before. No,
I hadn't. That's why I thought they were quite amusing and interesting.
And like you said, the apple thing was quite interesting to learn because there
is a lot of apple symbolism and you've got the apple bobbing as well.
But like you say, if it's a strong magical symbol, then then that
would make sense. And if you think about the apple like that is,
if you think about this story of Adam and Eve and the apple, so
it's apples have always held strong spiritual significance in terms of especially witchcraft and stuff
like that. But you can see see them in different types of stories.
And also that wasn't interesting. Do you see that fly across? Yes?
Light anonymy there. And also for like those in the Jewish community, they
will always eat honey and apple on a New Year's Eve because it's it's the
combination is for sweet opportunities basically. So it again it's something that apples have
got significant for new beginnings, new growth development. And yeah, they mix
honey with it as well and eat honey and apples as well on New Year's
Eve as a like a good omen for new beginnings when you start something new.
So yeah, it is across all of the board apples, but definitely
yeah, do the see it turns out for your last piece of apple tomorrow,
I've got to go get an apple. Absolutely. So something I come
across I felt it was quite interesting was obviously Halloween related. So Halloween the
film was actually inspired by the guy that actually produced the film wrote the film.
He was a psychology graduate and around Halloween he went to a asylum as
part of his course, which is often something that they do, and he
come across a patient, and this patient apparently was looking so unwaivered, had
so lost behind the eyes, that he inspired the character that is Michael Myers.
Now there's lots of reasons why you could say that that was the case
for this poor patient, but that was an interesting and this was back in
the seventies as well, So i'd like to say that we've made movement away
for some of the treatments that we use back then, I would say that's
some some not so we still use really outdated treatments sometimes. So but yeah,
you could kind of see why he might have been that way. But
I thought that was quite interesting. So it really affected him then to be
that memorable to make him want to do it. Franchise. It's just not
a film bigger franchise person sitting in the corner but talking about films. So
I know you don't like me doing this. I should have prepared you before.
But if you was to do a recommendation of a film to watch for
Halloween, what would it be? Not a massive horror film fan, because
if I watch ghosty demony horror films in my house, I always get activity.
But to be fair, the one horror film that I think is classic.
Is Poltergeist original Poltergeist. It's it's a bit of a boring answer in
a way, but that is the one horror film that the one horror film
that stayed with me that freaked me out, that I hated was The Ring.
Really, it's like, oh my god, because I could see that
happening in real life. And it's like, but but the film that I
would watch again, if you don't count The Labyrinths a horror film, obviously
I do. Actually, yeah, I still like Poltergeist, to be fair.
It's it's a little cliche, but I thought it was a pretty good
film. Really. I've not seen the remake, though I don't know if
the remake is any good. I haven't original And like, when you look
at the actually story of pop, I mean, that's a whole show of
in itself. I was going to say, because there's a lot of films
that are considered cursed because of the things that I happened on set. And
I know that the young girl who played the character, and the youngest character,
she was coming quite poorly and stuff with the making of the film and
stuff like that. But you always that that Native American burial ground seems quiet
when you go. I think they tried to loosely link that to the Amityville
Haunting, allegedly that that building was built on top of a burial ground.
But again, there's like lots of things that can dismiss that. But yeah,
absolutely classic. I think for me it would be Okay, So I'll
be honest with you. I watch horror films anyway. I especially watched them
in the month of October. I have literally just watched the The Fallen House
of Usher. Okay, Yeah, it was phenomenal. If you're a Edgar
Allan poe a fan, which I am. There's so many it was.
I was watching it and every time there was a reference, it's like,
oh my god, that talking about talking about that, and I was like,
yeah, I'm really excited about it. And at the end, like
spoiler alert, he read the poem out, which was like repups. But
that is really really good. But as in a classic film, I think
my most favorite film has to be I would say probably The Craft. It's
not really a horror film. I actually, yes, I see I didn't
class as a horror film, but I do love that film. I went
to see You when it come out of the cinema and I was expecting complete
trash and me and my friend walked out. We were like, oh yeah,
we were at the time, We're like a bit feaked out, and
they were like, I'm not sure about this, and we were like,
that was that was actually because they did a lot of research on witchcraft for
that film, so it is actually in a weird kind of way. But
again, if not seeing the remake, I meant it well, but I
don't know if I want to because I love it. I did love the
original film. I don't we know where the had classes a Halloween film,
but I suppose it isn't we but but yeah, I agree with you on
that one. I did love that film. Yeah, yeah, Okay,
Well that brings us to the end of our show. On the basis of
this show, I'm sure we've got four more in the pipeline. Hopefully Curse
Horror Films might be the next one. I'm not too sure. It was
good to say. We've a lot of different subjects today, so we've got
plenty to dig over. So yeah, absolutely, Well, thank you so
much for this evening, Thank you for joining me again, and we will
see you next time. Thank you everyone for joining us so h