WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.440 --> 00:00:08.439 Hudson River Radio dot com. It beats listening to nothing. Being Frank. 2 00:00:09.039 --> 00:00:17.320 We're the only way to be is Frank. Hello everyone, and welcome to 3 00:00:17.399 --> 00:00:21.480 Being Frank. We're the only way to beating is Frank. I'm your host, 4 00:00:21.559 --> 00:00:24.920 Frank Lebono, and we'd like to thank you for joining us here on 5 00:00:24.960 --> 00:00:29.960 what we like to call the Intelligent Conversation Podcast. We know that your time 6 00:00:30.079 --> 00:00:34.399 is valuable, and let's face it, competition is fierce. Lots of podcasts 7 00:00:34.399 --> 00:00:38.640 out there, but we also like to think of ourselves as an alternative to 8 00:00:38.719 --> 00:00:43.159 all that noise, so we really appreciate you sharing some of your day with 9 00:00:43.280 --> 00:00:48.240 Beating Frank. We stream from Hudson River Radio dot com, where the mailman, 10 00:00:48.439 --> 00:00:52.399 mister Neil Richter is our engineer. We call him that because he always 11 00:00:52.479 --> 00:00:56.840 delivers for us. Now, remember Hudson River Radio dot com is our home 12 00:00:56.880 --> 00:01:02.000 base, but you can download us wherever and whenever you listen to your favorite 13 00:01:02.000 --> 00:01:07.680 podcasts, and that includes iHeartRadio, Apple, Spotify, Speaker and all the 14 00:01:07.719 --> 00:01:11.000 others. You can find the links on the Being Frank Facebook page. Please 15 00:01:11.040 --> 00:01:15.280 think about becoming a subscriber and leaving us a comment or two, as well 16 00:01:17.000 --> 00:01:19.719 as I mentioned though, we have our own Facebook page Being Frank. It's 17 00:01:19.760 --> 00:01:23.400 public, so check it out and follow the page for more information about the 18 00:01:23.439 --> 00:01:29.920 podcast. We bring our audience a new topical program every week as I work 19 00:01:29.959 --> 00:01:34.480 hard on finding topics and guests to talk about them so that we can come 20 00:01:34.519 --> 00:01:38.280 to you fresh. As I said, every week usually begins late on Thursday 21 00:01:38.400 --> 00:01:42.040 nights, certainly by a Friday of every week we have a new program for 22 00:01:42.200 --> 00:01:46.560 you. But remember you can listen at your convenience, and every program as 23 00:01:46.719 --> 00:01:51.760 archives, so you can listen to any Being Frank virtually anytime that you want. 24 00:01:52.200 --> 00:01:56.359 We think it's the intelligent thing to do. We're taping this program on 25 00:01:56.560 --> 00:02:00.680 four twenty, the twentieth of April. We all know this magnificance. Well, 26 00:02:00.719 --> 00:02:04.560 most of us know the significance of four to twenty. I certainly do. 27 00:02:05.120 --> 00:02:07.759 Anyway, be that as may that's not our topic for this evening. 28 00:02:09.039 --> 00:02:15.560 The Buddhas says three things cannot be long hidden, sun, the moon, 29 00:02:15.000 --> 00:02:23.120 and the truth. Well, Fox News Corporation can no longer officially hide its 30 00:02:23.199 --> 00:02:28.840 lies. Personally, I've called them phoe News as in f a ux for 31 00:02:29.039 --> 00:02:34.360 years because in my opinion, that's what they are fake. They hide behind 32 00:02:34.400 --> 00:02:38.360 the First Amendment, but now they can no longer pass their drivel on as 33 00:02:38.439 --> 00:02:44.159 mere opinion, at least not without consequences, not when they know the truth 34 00:02:44.240 --> 00:02:46.400 to be different. We're want to talk about that with our guests this evening. 35 00:02:46.960 --> 00:02:50.840 Just this week, in an out of court settlement, Fox agreed to 36 00:02:50.879 --> 00:02:57.759 pay Dominion Voting Systems a record seven hundred and eighty seven point five million dollars 37 00:02:57.759 --> 00:03:04.919 for damaged caused by the networks false targeted programming claiming that Dominion had deliberately altered 38 00:03:04.919 --> 00:03:09.280 the results of the twenty twenty presidential election. By settling, Fox was forced 39 00:03:09.280 --> 00:03:15.319 to admit its role in the false narrative against Dominion, but did avoid a 40 00:03:15.400 --> 00:03:21.879 lengthy trial that would have proven to be very embarrassing by forcing their anchors as 41 00:03:21.919 --> 00:03:27.039 well as high level executives, to admit that they willingly lie to satisfy its 42 00:03:27.159 --> 00:03:31.560 core audience ie Donald J. Trump's supporters. As part of the settlement, 43 00:03:31.599 --> 00:03:38.360 Fox does not have to actually apologize for its malfeasans Not a single statement regarding 44 00:03:38.400 --> 00:03:43.199 the case was issued by any Fox reporter or host, and I'm pretty sure 45 00:03:43.280 --> 00:03:46.240 they will not lose a single core viewer because This is the nature of both 46 00:03:46.240 --> 00:03:51.280 the network and its loyal supporters. They seem to be not interested in the 47 00:03:51.360 --> 00:03:54.879 truth, but only in what suits their narrative. But they aren't out of 48 00:03:54.879 --> 00:04:00.120 the woods yet. Smart Madock, another Florida based company, is now suing 49 00:04:00.120 --> 00:04:05.599 the corporation for basically the same reasons, and to the tune of two point 50 00:04:05.639 --> 00:04:12.199 seven billion dollars. Fox continues to cry they have a right to their opinions 51 00:04:12.520 --> 00:04:18.639 as protected by the First Amendment. What is willingly deceiving the public truly protected? 52 00:04:19.399 --> 00:04:21.759 Well, we have the man here to help us sort it out. 53 00:04:23.120 --> 00:04:26.879 He's a regular contributor to Being Frank. He's my colleague at Fordam where he's 54 00:04:26.920 --> 00:04:31.040 a media professor. He's also the author of a new radio play, It's 55 00:04:31.079 --> 00:04:34.000 Real Life, which we'll talk about in the second half of the program. 56 00:04:34.480 --> 00:04:38.800 And as I said, he's been a regular contributor. He always is my 57 00:04:39.319 --> 00:04:43.079 go to guy in media matters, and that's doctor Paul Levinson. Paul, 58 00:04:43.120 --> 00:04:46.000 thank you once again for joining us here. I'm being Frank. My pleasure 59 00:04:46.079 --> 00:04:53.600 is always let's get to it first. I think we have to understand what 60 00:04:53.839 --> 00:04:59.639 this particular case was all about, which was dominion versus Fox broadcasting. What 61 00:04:59.759 --> 00:05:04.600 was the crux of this case, Paul, Well, it's important to keep 62 00:05:04.600 --> 00:05:10.399 in mind this was a civil case, meaning nobody could have been thrown in 63 00:05:10.560 --> 00:05:19.600 prison. And that's very significant because there are cases out there which have resulted, 64 00:05:20.160 --> 00:05:29.199 at least in part from Foxes knowing broadcasting of outright lies, which could 65 00:05:29.240 --> 00:05:35.600 indeed become criminal cases. Because if you think about what happened in the January 66 00:05:35.639 --> 00:05:42.759 twenty twenty one resurrection, the attack on the Capitol, lives were lost and 67 00:05:43.079 --> 00:05:49.160 that's certainly criminal. But in this case, Dominion was suing Fox because in 68 00:05:49.439 --> 00:05:59.160 Fox's many lies, one of the biggest aspects of those lies was the repeated 69 00:05:59.360 --> 00:06:06.959 nonsense that somehow Dominion, in their vast evil genius AI programming, had figured 70 00:06:08.000 --> 00:06:14.199 out how to steal the election from Donald Trump. And so you had people 71 00:06:14.240 --> 00:06:18.600 like Rudy Giuliani babbling on that. You know, the Democrats were counted three 72 00:06:18.600 --> 00:06:25.360 times in some states. And it's one thing if Giuliani is saying that, 73 00:06:25.839 --> 00:06:31.639 It's quite another when the Fox hosts are shaking their heads and agreeing with that 74 00:06:32.040 --> 00:06:38.439 and saying that. And I'm talking about Tucker Carlson, I'm talking about Sean 75 00:06:38.560 --> 00:06:43.240 Hannity, and many more of the people at Fox. And let me say, 76 00:06:43.240 --> 00:06:47.680 you know, last summer, I actually filed a formal complaint as a 77 00:06:47.720 --> 00:06:51.360 professor at Fordham University, and by the way, as someone who had been 78 00:06:51.600 --> 00:06:56.839 on Fox several times. I was on The O'Reilly Factor at least four or 79 00:06:56.839 --> 00:07:01.160 five times, and some other Fox shows, and I wrote a serious complaint 80 00:07:01.199 --> 00:07:08.399 to the FTC, the Federal Trade Commission that they should oblige Fox to change 81 00:07:08.439 --> 00:07:15.079 its name from Fox News to Fox Propaganda. And that's what you are talking 82 00:07:15.120 --> 00:07:19.800 about when you say it's Fox Phone News, because it isn't news. News 83 00:07:20.040 --> 00:07:27.439 is not lies. This is not to say that obviously reporters are human beings. 84 00:07:27.920 --> 00:07:32.319 They make mistakes all the time. But there's a big difference between making 85 00:07:32.319 --> 00:07:40.560 a mistake and knowingly and repeatedly saying things that are not true. And one 86 00:07:40.600 --> 00:07:46.519 of the reasons why Fox had no choice but to reach a settlement because they 87 00:07:46.519 --> 00:07:49.639 would have lost far more than three quarters of a billion dollars, which is 88 00:07:49.680 --> 00:07:54.600 what these settlement was. Had this case gone to trial, there was a 89 00:07:54.639 --> 00:08:00.560 possibility of punitive damages that they could have. That case could have put Fox 90 00:08:00.759 --> 00:08:05.360 and Rupert Murdock permanently out of business. That's how high the damages would have 91 00:08:05.399 --> 00:08:11.360 been. And the reason that that was the case is what came out in 92 00:08:11.480 --> 00:08:20.600 the depositions. The pre trial depositions were Tucker Carlson, Sean Hannity, everyone 93 00:08:20.639 --> 00:08:26.600 and their grandmother who was working at Fox knew that these were lies. There 94 00:08:26.680 --> 00:08:31.519 are statements in which they say, Rudy Giuliani is out of his mind. 95 00:08:31.519 --> 00:08:37.799 This is complete nonsense. And yet having said that, behind the scenes, 96 00:08:39.200 --> 00:08:43.360 they go on camera and they not only say it, but they repeat it 97 00:08:43.679 --> 00:08:48.159 over and over and over again. Well, I think that's a key element. 98 00:08:48.519 --> 00:08:50.360 Well, because there's beauty in the First Amendment. You know what, 99 00:08:50.480 --> 00:08:54.600 I was thinking about it when I was writing my opening today and I said, 100 00:08:54.639 --> 00:08:58.519 well, I'm going to be allowed my opinion, which will be very 101 00:09:00.159 --> 00:09:05.440 iCal a Fox, that's my opinion. Uh, And I was thinking, 102 00:09:05.759 --> 00:09:09.200 well, what if what if they sued? What if fake went after me 103 00:09:09.240 --> 00:09:15.399 and said I'm I'm disparaging them, et cetera. Yet I still felt I 104 00:09:15.440 --> 00:09:20.799 have a protection under the First Amendment that that is my opinion of them. 105 00:09:20.279 --> 00:09:26.240 So where then lies the difference between a Fox host saying, well, you 106 00:09:26.279 --> 00:09:30.000 know, I was I'm not putting words in their mouth. I'm just hosting 107 00:09:30.039 --> 00:09:35.720 them and that was their opinion, and opinions are allowed. So what is 108 00:09:35.799 --> 00:09:39.200 what is the what is the difference there between us? Said? The protection 109 00:09:39.200 --> 00:09:45.879 of me saying something like hey, they're phonos faux, their fake their phony. 110 00:09:45.919 --> 00:09:50.960 That's very critical. Uh, I don't necessarily I could that, I 111 00:09:52.000 --> 00:09:56.159 could perhaps produce proof, as I said, this was a statement that was 112 00:09:56.240 --> 00:10:00.399 made that we know to be false. But yet as to say, time 113 00:10:00.440 --> 00:10:03.120 they hire, they hide under the guise of well, it's my opinion, 114 00:10:03.480 --> 00:10:07.879 and you hear that offered an arguments, Well, you know, I respect 115 00:10:07.960 --> 00:10:11.120 your opinion, but this is my opinion. What's what's the what's the real 116 00:10:11.200 --> 00:10:13.600 hard difference there? Paul? So there are three things. Actually there are 117 00:10:13.600 --> 00:10:16.879 many more than three things in the world, but there are three things that 118 00:10:16.960 --> 00:10:24.639 have relevance to your question. And the three things are facts, lies, 119 00:10:24.200 --> 00:10:31.039 and opinions. And what the First Amendment protects, as you have said, 120 00:10:31.559 --> 00:10:35.840 is opinions, no matter how much we hate those opinions, no matter how 121 00:10:37.240 --> 00:10:41.799 reprehensible those opinions are. I'll give you an example of an opinion that I 122 00:10:41.960 --> 00:10:50.720 find absolutely disgusting, and I would do everything in my power to reduce those 123 00:10:50.759 --> 00:10:56.759 opinions because they're so dangerous. But the opinion that the safest way to be 124 00:10:58.159 --> 00:11:03.519 in America is to carry a loaded weapon, that's an opinion. It's not 125 00:11:03.600 --> 00:11:09.080 a fact. It's an opinion. People are protected under the First Amendment to 126 00:11:09.240 --> 00:11:11.840 say that and to think that, I don't want to hear that. I 127 00:11:11.879 --> 00:11:18.279 would oppose that with every ounce of my being. But I would not say 128 00:11:18.320 --> 00:11:26.440 that those people who were saying that were committing something certainly not a crime and 129 00:11:26.559 --> 00:11:31.639 certainly not something that they could be sued for in a civil court. Because 130 00:11:31.639 --> 00:11:37.399 it's an opinion. But what Fox did over and over again didn't offer an 131 00:11:37.399 --> 00:11:48.080 opinion offered as fact that basically dominion did things to rig the vote counting in 132 00:11:48.120 --> 00:11:54.519 the twenty twenty election. And they did this when they're won o experts on 133 00:11:54.679 --> 00:12:00.559 there. They did this when they had demented experts like Rudy Julian. They 134 00:12:00.639 --> 00:12:05.080 just did it all the time. And again, furthermore, they themselves knew 135 00:12:05.080 --> 00:12:09.440 it. It wasn't as if like someone had hypnotized them and they didn't know 136 00:12:09.480 --> 00:12:11.960 what they were doing, because when they were off camera, they were saying, 137 00:12:13.080 --> 00:12:18.159 these people are crazy. And that is why the case went against them 138 00:12:18.440 --> 00:12:26.080 because it's ipso facto clear that they were lying. Sometimes it's not clear, 139 00:12:26.120 --> 00:12:28.799 you know, a person might be mistaken, but here you couldn't ask for 140 00:12:28.879 --> 00:12:33.480 better proof that they were lying and they knew they were lying about facts. 141 00:12:35.200 --> 00:12:39.279 That brings us to another interesting case that you know I discussed actually a few 142 00:12:39.320 --> 00:12:43.759 months ago, Sarah Palin versus The New York Times, where the reverse the 143 00:12:43.799 --> 00:12:48.879 New York Times one just to refresh people's memories. Sarah Palin was suing The 144 00:12:48.919 --> 00:12:56.639 Times for an article that planed something that she was deliberately. I don't remember 145 00:12:56.679 --> 00:13:03.000 the exact details, but what it turned out to be basically was a mistake, 146 00:13:03.480 --> 00:13:07.360 if you will. But the court allowed for the paper to make a 147 00:13:07.440 --> 00:13:13.639 quote unquote honest mistake and therefore ruled against Palin and said, no, the 148 00:13:13.759 --> 00:13:18.320 paper is protected. And I think people have to understand that the First Amendment 149 00:13:18.399 --> 00:13:22.960 protection is like on steroids when it comes to the media, you have extra 150 00:13:24.039 --> 00:13:30.399 protection so that we can speak freely and can voice opinions. But what's interesting 151 00:13:30.399 --> 00:13:33.600 about that is the Times was allowed to make a mistake, if you will, 152 00:13:33.919 --> 00:13:39.720 and it was seen as a honest mistake. But obviously that's a very 153 00:13:39.759 --> 00:13:43.039 different issue. Here explained that a little bit better than than I did. 154 00:13:43.399 --> 00:13:48.360 What are you explained it very well? Let's say somebody says on some newscasts 155 00:13:48.840 --> 00:13:56.039 that Professor Lewison is an atrocious teacher, and I've heard of many students who 156 00:13:56.039 --> 00:14:03.600 have dropped his class, and it's a shame that Fordham University keeps Professor Lewison 157 00:14:03.120 --> 00:14:13.120 teaching its students. So I basically come out and I say, you know 158 00:14:13.200 --> 00:14:18.320 what that's that sounds a lot like Levinson. You know, Professor Levinson, 159 00:14:18.879 --> 00:14:24.120 I'm gonna sue you. You are damaging my reputation. There is no Professor 160 00:14:24.279 --> 00:14:28.840 Lewison at Fordham University. So who else were you talking about? Chances are 161 00:14:28.919 --> 00:14:37.440 in that situation the person who was criticizing Professor Lewison just got confused and you 162 00:14:37.480 --> 00:14:43.559 know, used the wrong name, and it didn't apply to me in the 163 00:14:43.559 --> 00:14:48.519 first place. And even though I had a grievance against them, it was 164 00:14:48.559 --> 00:14:52.879 not something that I could recover money from. Or if there were a case 165 00:14:54.080 --> 00:15:03.559 in which there was a Professor Lewison and the university was upset that the person 166 00:15:03.720 --> 00:15:11.080 was saying Lewison is a terrible teacher, the university would have to make sure 167 00:15:11.200 --> 00:15:16.080 if it was suing this media sauce that they were talking about Lewison, not 168 00:15:16.399 --> 00:15:20.480 Levinson, not Livingston, a bunch of similar names. In other words, 169 00:15:20.519 --> 00:15:26.360 the court would need to determine whether or not an honest mistake was made or 170 00:15:26.440 --> 00:15:31.840 the person just sat down and lied for whatever reason that person had. And 171 00:15:31.879 --> 00:15:37.200 so that's why the New York Times won that case. And look, honestly, 172 00:15:39.240 --> 00:15:41.840 you never know what's in somebody's mind, you know, the court, 173 00:15:43.320 --> 00:15:46.480 no court is claire voyant, So who really knows what was in the New 174 00:15:46.559 --> 00:15:52.240 York Times reporter's mind, what was in the editor's mind when they published that 175 00:15:52.440 --> 00:15:58.360 article. But the court found that there was a reasonable argument that The New 176 00:15:58.440 --> 00:16:03.600 York Times was just mistaken in that point. And that's why I get back 177 00:16:03.639 --> 00:16:11.919 again to what happened with Fox and Dominion. There is no way that Fox 178 00:16:11.000 --> 00:16:17.159 can claim they made a mistake when you have evidence that the people who are 179 00:16:17.279 --> 00:16:22.240 saying these lies knew that they were lies. It's an open and shut case. 180 00:16:22.600 --> 00:16:26.639 And so what you have is, again, it's not a criminal action. 181 00:16:26.679 --> 00:16:30.360 It's not something that involves spies, you know, it's nothing like that 182 00:16:30.440 --> 00:16:36.480 at all. It's just a simple, really civil suit, a defamation suit 183 00:16:36.840 --> 00:16:44.320 in which the defamed party in this case dominion has ample evidence that the people 184 00:16:44.360 --> 00:16:51.639 who defamed them knew that they were lying when they uttered those defamations, and 185 00:16:51.639 --> 00:16:56.320 it obviously caused a dominion a lot of business. And so I can't think 186 00:16:56.360 --> 00:17:00.559 and really in the history of these kinds of cases, of a more clear 187 00:17:00.600 --> 00:17:07.880 cut case as there was against Fox, And that's why Fox was willing to 188 00:17:07.880 --> 00:17:11.480 settle for three quarters of a billion dollars a lot of money. Hey, 189 00:17:11.519 --> 00:17:15.839 I'd be jumping for joy if I got three quarters of a million dollars. 190 00:17:15.119 --> 00:17:18.279 I'd be jumping for joy if I got I don't know, seven hundred and 191 00:17:18.279 --> 00:17:23.039 fifty thousand dollars, but three quills of a billion dollars, that's very good 192 00:17:23.079 --> 00:17:29.680 money. And nobody gives that money, that kind of money away just to 193 00:17:29.799 --> 00:17:34.319 keep somebody quiet. You pay that money because you know that if you don't 194 00:17:34.359 --> 00:17:40.640 pay that money, you might wind up being fined in this case, multiple 195 00:17:40.720 --> 00:17:47.240 billions of dollars. Well, you hinted at something that's related to our topic 196 00:17:47.279 --> 00:17:52.279 tonight that I'd really like to discuss in some detail, especially you and I 197 00:17:52.359 --> 00:17:56.559 as media types, journalists, etc. And I call it the myth of 198 00:17:56.799 --> 00:18:06.519 total objectivity, the idea that reporters always have to be one hundred percent objective. 199 00:18:06.680 --> 00:18:10.640 That's true reporting, if you will. The other everything else is under 200 00:18:10.720 --> 00:18:15.200 tree, if you will. But personally, I don't find that accurate. 201 00:18:15.680 --> 00:18:21.200 I don't think anyone can be one hundred percent objective. I don't think it's 202 00:18:21.240 --> 00:18:25.920 possible, and I don't think they should because I know anytime that I approached 203 00:18:25.920 --> 00:18:30.359 the story, you always approach it with the idea of what the story is 204 00:18:30.519 --> 00:18:34.759 about. You let it unfold. Obviously, that's you use your skills to 205 00:18:34.839 --> 00:18:41.599 let it unfold, but you also are taking in and formulating opinions, if 206 00:18:41.640 --> 00:18:47.400 you will, within that as the story unfolds, and then you tell the 207 00:18:47.440 --> 00:18:52.000 story in a sense as you see it. And we, as human beings 208 00:18:52.200 --> 00:18:57.640 all are everything we see is colored by our own experience. So I guess 209 00:18:57.640 --> 00:19:06.759 what I'm pointing, and is there true total objectivity? Should there be true 210 00:19:06.759 --> 00:19:15.160 objectivity? Your thoughts, Well, there certainly isn't anything close to true total 211 00:19:15.440 --> 00:19:23.519 objectivity, And that's because no human being is truly and totally objective. And 212 00:19:25.000 --> 00:19:33.839 sometimes it pains people to realize that they're heroes in the media were not truly 213 00:19:33.920 --> 00:19:41.000 and totally objective bar from it. In fact, they often said misleading things. 214 00:19:41.039 --> 00:19:42.440 I mean, it happens all the time. And we may have even 215 00:19:42.480 --> 00:19:47.720 talked about this in some prior conversation. You know the New York Times famous 216 00:19:47.839 --> 00:19:52.559 model all the news that's fit to print, that's not true. Basically, 217 00:19:52.720 --> 00:19:56.400 there are a group of editors who sit down every day. They decide what's 218 00:19:56.400 --> 00:19:59.359 going to be on the front page. They decide what's going to be on 219 00:19:59.400 --> 00:20:02.160 the top of the page, and on the bottom of the page, above 220 00:20:02.279 --> 00:20:06.319 or below the fold. They decide how big the headline will be. Then 221 00:20:06.359 --> 00:20:10.759 they decide what's going to be in the newspaper altogether and where it's going to 222 00:20:10.880 --> 00:20:17.000 be. And obviously they don't print every story that someone else might think is 223 00:20:17.079 --> 00:20:22.279 newsworthy. They print stories that they think are newsworthy worthy. So a more 224 00:20:22.440 --> 00:20:30.000 honest motto might be all the news that we a very small band of editors 225 00:20:30.079 --> 00:20:34.000 here at the New York Times think you should think was fit to print, 226 00:20:34.440 --> 00:20:40.160 or maybe all the news that we are small band of editors here at the 227 00:20:40.200 --> 00:20:45.319 New York Times deem fit to print, not fit to print, as if 228 00:20:45.319 --> 00:20:49.039 there's some kind of objective standards. And look, I loved Walter Cronkite. 229 00:20:49.079 --> 00:20:55.400 I grew up watching Walter Cronkite. He used to end every broadcast and that's 230 00:20:55.759 --> 00:20:59.240 the way it was, in that great sonorous voice of his. Well, 231 00:20:59.240 --> 00:21:04.279 what does that lie that somehow there was a realistic mirror of that's the way 232 00:21:04.279 --> 00:21:10.400 it was in the world, and CBS and Walter Cronkite were fortunate enough to 233 00:21:10.680 --> 00:21:15.119 see it, and Walter was reporting it to us. Now it was nothing 234 00:21:15.160 --> 00:21:18.839 like that. It was once again, if Walter had been totally honest, 235 00:21:18.440 --> 00:21:26.599 And that's the way a very small group of editors here at CBS News thought 236 00:21:26.880 --> 00:21:30.480 you should think it was today. So you know, it's interesting that you 237 00:21:30.559 --> 00:21:36.400 brought up Cronkite because I think it's very relative to what we're speaking about in 238 00:21:36.480 --> 00:21:41.880 terms of objectivity and our conversation of the pun of tree opinions, etc. 239 00:21:41.240 --> 00:21:45.920 Which a lot of news has become and people have to understand there's a difference 240 00:21:45.960 --> 00:21:51.599 between a hard news opinion slash pun of tree and people often you see an 241 00:21:51.599 --> 00:21:56.279 internet meme. Very well, I missed the days of Walter Cronkite, when 242 00:21:56.319 --> 00:22:00.799 all we got his news and he never gave an opinion. The biggest crock 243 00:22:00.880 --> 00:22:06.799 I ever heard people forget his editorial on the Vietnam War after the TED offensive 244 00:22:07.400 --> 00:22:11.920 on CBS, and he gave us scathing editorial that basically said, this is 245 00:22:11.960 --> 00:22:18.920 an unwinnable war. And support for the war decayed rapidly after that report. 246 00:22:19.240 --> 00:22:25.559 Because he had that much influence. That was his opinion. It happened to 247 00:22:25.599 --> 00:22:30.240 be a correct opinion. But to say that that was just hard news. 248 00:22:30.839 --> 00:22:34.079 It was his opinion based on his experience, what he had seen, he 249 00:22:34.200 --> 00:22:41.160 had been there, etc. But to say it was completely unvarnished is not 250 00:22:41.319 --> 00:22:45.359 true. It was colored by his experience, and therefore he made that, 251 00:22:45.880 --> 00:22:51.519 if you will, as a value statement. But yet it had tremendous impact 252 00:22:51.680 --> 00:22:56.119 overall. So the idea that newsman just oh they only reported, that's a 253 00:22:56.240 --> 00:23:00.039 fallacy that never really happened, right, Paul, No, that's right. 254 00:23:00.559 --> 00:23:07.000 Listen, the New York Times, CBS, all the legitimate news agencies try 255 00:23:07.279 --> 00:23:11.079 to separate facts from opinions. So the New York Times has its op ed 256 00:23:11.160 --> 00:23:18.480 page. When Walter Cronkite made that impassioned statement, gave that analysis after he 257 00:23:18.519 --> 00:23:23.160 saw the failure of our TED offensive, he did say, this is an 258 00:23:23.160 --> 00:23:30.319 opinion, but what you are saying is nonetheless true because it was said in 259 00:23:30.400 --> 00:23:36.599 the same voice as he delivered the news. Because someone who wasn't watching and 260 00:23:36.680 --> 00:23:41.359 listening very carefully, they might have indeed mistaken that for a fact rather than 261 00:23:41.480 --> 00:23:48.200 opinion. But again, to give the New York Times and Walter Cronkite credit, 262 00:23:48.640 --> 00:23:56.000 even though they subscribed to the myth of total objectivity in their news delivery, 263 00:23:56.440 --> 00:24:03.160 there is still a huge cavern that separates the New York Times, CBS, 264 00:24:03.440 --> 00:24:07.680 NBC, ABC, even the Wall Street Journal on the one hand, 265 00:24:07.000 --> 00:24:14.279 from what Fox News is still doing to this very day, and you know, 266 00:24:14.319 --> 00:24:18.119 again just lies. I saw a report just the other day. I 267 00:24:18.160 --> 00:24:21.559 couldn't believe. It's like we're living, you know, on Earth too, 268 00:24:21.799 --> 00:24:26.319 as I think Nicole Wallace is found as saying on MSNBC that was a great 269 00:24:26.400 --> 00:24:30.880 science fiction story, sort of alternate Earth. Basically, Tucker Carlson basically just 270 00:24:30.920 --> 00:24:33.839 says it's an absolute fact. You know a lot of people here in the 271 00:24:33.920 --> 00:24:38.839 United States don't realize that for every Russian soldier who's been killed in Ukraine, 272 00:24:40.480 --> 00:24:45.319 seven Ukrainian soldiers have been killed. Totally wrong, just a total made up 273 00:24:45.559 --> 00:24:51.319 nonsense lie fed him. I don't know by putin you know, I don't 274 00:24:51.319 --> 00:24:55.599 know who gave him that nonsense. By the way, why you might ask 275 00:24:55.640 --> 00:25:02.200 does he say those things? The answer is what Fox is interested in only 276 00:25:02.279 --> 00:25:07.440 interested in is money, and in order to make money, they need to 277 00:25:07.519 --> 00:25:12.240 keep their viewers, and they live in fear that if they start telling even 278 00:25:12.279 --> 00:25:15.880 a little bit of the truth, their viewers will go off to Newsmax, 279 00:25:17.319 --> 00:25:25.079 some other even more crazy, much smaller lying operation. And again, although 280 00:25:25.519 --> 00:25:29.359 and it's important to make this point, although MSNBC, CNN, The New 281 00:25:29.440 --> 00:25:34.480 York Times, etc. They're no angels, they at least try to be 282 00:25:34.759 --> 00:25:42.920 truthful. And unfortunately they don't admit to the extent that their presentation of facts 283 00:25:44.079 --> 00:25:51.799 are inevitably molded by opinions and views, and they should admit that more easily 284 00:25:51.839 --> 00:25:56.519 and frequently. At least they're trying to do that. And by the way, 285 00:25:56.559 --> 00:26:00.319 Fox used to try much harder to do that. When I was on 286 00:26:00.359 --> 00:26:03.680 the O'Reilly Factor back in two thousand and three to two thousand and four, 287 00:26:03.200 --> 00:26:07.519 he was the same conservative that he still is now. And I'm the same 288 00:26:07.799 --> 00:26:11.039 I was the same person then as I am now. But we used to 289 00:26:11.079 --> 00:26:17.119 have debates, and you know, he always felt that he got the better 290 00:26:17.200 --> 00:26:19.559 of me, but I thought I got the better of him several times. 291 00:26:19.799 --> 00:26:25.559 The point is the people who watched that at least heard the truth from me. 292 00:26:26.200 --> 00:26:30.599 And once upon a time, Sean Hannity was on a show called Hannity 293 00:26:30.680 --> 00:26:34.400 and Combs, and Combs was Alan Combs, the late Alan Colmes. Sean 294 00:26:34.440 --> 00:26:40.720 Hannity presented the conservative view. Alan Colmes presented the progressive view. At some 295 00:26:40.839 --> 00:26:47.839 point Fox said, you know what, where we are disappointing our rabbid viewers, 296 00:26:48.039 --> 00:26:53.960 not rabbit rabbid r abid viewers. And I make sure that's clear. 297 00:26:55.400 --> 00:27:00.079 I love rabbits, and so we're going to get rid of Combs. They 298 00:27:00.119 --> 00:27:03.839 don't need to broadcast this progressive view. Let's just give Hannity the whole hour. 299 00:27:04.160 --> 00:27:08.680 And that's indeed what they did. So, and I would say Tucker 300 00:27:08.720 --> 00:27:15.079 Carlson is much worse than Bill O'Reilly ever was, because again, at least 301 00:27:15.119 --> 00:27:18.279 Bill O'Reilly had guests on his show in addition to me, and much more 302 00:27:18.319 --> 00:27:22.519 important than I am, who did speak the truth. Paul Krugman was a 303 00:27:22.559 --> 00:27:26.960 guest on his show from time to time. You know the Nobel layd and 304 00:27:26.039 --> 00:27:32.720 economics, who's very progressive. So Fox took a turn for the worse, 305 00:27:33.400 --> 00:27:38.720 and a lot of people are hoping that maybe as a result of this huge, 306 00:27:38.799 --> 00:27:45.599 costly settlement, they'll pull back, But I think they are afraid that 307 00:27:45.680 --> 00:27:52.720 if they get any less deceitquel than they currently are, they're gonna lose viewers, 308 00:27:52.720 --> 00:27:56.039 and they don't want to hemorrhage viewers. So that leaves us with the 309 00:27:56.160 --> 00:28:03.839 question that Paul, how do we consume information? How should we consume information? 310 00:28:03.880 --> 00:28:08.480 There's so much available. I mean, broadcast is becoming an antiquated term. 311 00:28:08.599 --> 00:28:12.480 We hardly ever use it anymore, and nothing it's truly broadcast. It's 312 00:28:12.480 --> 00:28:18.559 either cablecast or it's streamed or cibulka it literally as a term, it's being 313 00:28:18.720 --> 00:28:26.359 archaic. So how do how should people be well informed? How should they 314 00:28:26.440 --> 00:28:33.039 consume information? Well, I think people it's a hopeless case. You're not 315 00:28:33.079 --> 00:28:37.799 going to get someone who watches MSNBC to suddenly switch and start watching Fox, 316 00:28:38.920 --> 00:28:42.680 and frankly, I wouldn't want that to happen. It's too painful a thing 317 00:28:42.799 --> 00:28:47.599 to have to do, or even to go over to CNN. People are 318 00:28:47.640 --> 00:28:52.759 in their news bubbles. They enjoy hearing what they think is true. But 319 00:28:52.880 --> 00:28:56.400 I think at the very least, I think most people I tend to be 320 00:28:56.440 --> 00:29:03.000 an optimist. I'm with John Milton. I think most people buy and large 321 00:29:03.359 --> 00:29:08.359 are rational. And after all, Trump did lose the popular vote, and 322 00:29:08.400 --> 00:29:14.400 then he lost both and the electoral vote, so you know, first in 323 00:29:14.440 --> 00:29:18.920 two sixteen and then twenty twenty. So I do think a majority of people 324 00:29:18.920 --> 00:29:22.160 in America are rational. I think a majority of people on planet Earth are 325 00:29:22.279 --> 00:29:27.200 rational. And I think what happens with most rational people when you hear or 326 00:29:27.319 --> 00:29:33.920 see something which, like bothers, you you know there's something about it. 327 00:29:33.039 --> 00:29:37.000 I don't know, you know what it is that I hear this? Right, 328 00:29:37.680 --> 00:29:41.920 It has never been easier to confirm something that you see or hear in 329 00:29:41.960 --> 00:29:45.920 the news. So I mean this happens all the time when basically prankster's report 330 00:29:45.960 --> 00:29:49.200 that somebody died and they didn't die. But what do you do? The 331 00:29:49.319 --> 00:29:52.680 very first thing I do when I see golf a bit some famous person has 332 00:29:52.759 --> 00:29:57.039 died. But before I get upset, if I like that person's work, 333 00:29:57.480 --> 00:30:03.200 I check on two three other sites and I see how they reporting that death, 334 00:30:03.480 --> 00:30:07.440 and if they're not, then I know it's not true. I'll just 335 00:30:07.480 --> 00:30:11.519 give you a very recent, not very important example. I saw a tweet 336 00:30:12.359 --> 00:30:18.279 I guess it was last week that Mike Pence had pulled out of the Republican 337 00:30:18.440 --> 00:30:22.279 race for president in twenty twenty four, and I remember I said to my 338 00:30:22.279 --> 00:30:26.359 wife, Wow, this is interesting. But you know what, I'm surprised. 339 00:30:26.599 --> 00:30:30.039 I don't think Pence has pulled out. So I checked on three four 340 00:30:30.119 --> 00:30:34.640 sites and there was no word of it, and it turned out he didn't 341 00:30:34.880 --> 00:30:38.640 pull out. Somebody else pull out, pulled out. The guy who was 342 00:30:38.720 --> 00:30:45.799 formerly Trump's Secretary of State, Pompeo had pulled us. I guess someone basically 343 00:30:45.799 --> 00:30:49.559 didn't hear right or couldn't spell too well. They meant to say Pompeo pulled 344 00:30:49.559 --> 00:30:52.640 out, in fact, and they meant to say Pompeo pulled out, but 345 00:30:52.759 --> 00:30:56.839 they tweeted the Pence pulled out. But that, to me, the ability 346 00:30:56.960 --> 00:31:03.519 to check, to verify, to confirm that is something which has never been 347 00:31:03.640 --> 00:31:08.400 easier. And you know, you can check, like in four or five 348 00:31:08.440 --> 00:31:12.519 different places, The New York Times, the Washington Post, the Wall Street 349 00:31:12.599 --> 00:31:18.440 Journal, NBC, whatever, And if there's a news story that sounds really 350 00:31:18.480 --> 00:31:23.160 odd and bizarre to you, but it's being reported on all those sites, 351 00:31:23.240 --> 00:31:27.759 then yeah, probably it's true. But if it isn't, it won't be 352 00:31:27.799 --> 00:31:32.000 reported on all those stuffs. But that brings us to a new term, 353 00:31:32.240 --> 00:31:38.279 a modern malaise, cognitive dissonance, where people seem to only want to hear 354 00:31:38.720 --> 00:31:45.480 what they want to hear, and therefore only seeks out or seek out sources 355 00:31:45.480 --> 00:31:51.079 of information that confirm what they want to believe. How do we deal with 356 00:31:51.119 --> 00:31:56.319 that book, It's very hard because it's part of human nature. And this 357 00:31:56.480 --> 00:32:01.359 was first noticed by a Harvard psychology just back in the nineteen fifties, Leon 358 00:32:01.559 --> 00:32:09.839 Festinger, and he basically said, we tried to avoid cognitive dissonance by just 359 00:32:10.640 --> 00:32:19.079 ingesting information that supports what we already believe. It makes us feel good because 360 00:32:19.160 --> 00:32:22.920 it's just the contrary. If we come into contact with something that contradicts or 361 00:32:23.039 --> 00:32:29.160 refutes what we believe, then we're in a turmoil and we feel uncomfortable. 362 00:32:29.480 --> 00:32:32.880 And you know, Marshall mclewin, he looked at the same problem and he 363 00:32:34.000 --> 00:32:40.839 used to talk about the Greek myth of the handsome youth Narcissus, who basically 364 00:32:42.720 --> 00:32:46.640 his way of spending an enjoyable afternoon was going over to a clear lake and 365 00:32:46.799 --> 00:32:52.119 looking at his own reflection. Because he was so narcissistic, he enjoyed, 366 00:32:52.640 --> 00:32:59.359 you know, looking at his own reflection there so much so that a Greek 367 00:33:00.359 --> 00:33:04.880 nymph came over tried to seduce him, and he would rather look at his 368 00:33:04.920 --> 00:33:10.160 own reflection rather than spend any time with this nymph. And eventually there are 369 00:33:10.240 --> 00:33:15.880 various endings to that Greek myth. Eventually one of the endings he falls into 370 00:33:15.920 --> 00:33:21.240 the lake and drowned. So, you know, but what mclun was getting 371 00:33:21.240 --> 00:33:27.440 at is, again, we love reflections of what we already believe that it 372 00:33:27.599 --> 00:33:30.960 makes us happy. My mother was like that, you know, God bless 373 00:33:31.000 --> 00:33:34.799 him, my late mother. Nothing would make up happy. She would come 374 00:33:34.880 --> 00:33:37.640 running in with like a newspaper, say, ah see, I knew this 375 00:33:37.759 --> 00:33:42.279 was the case, you know so. But everyone is like that to some 376 00:33:42.440 --> 00:33:51.000 extent. But that's why it's so hard to get any regular viewer of Fox 377 00:33:52.079 --> 00:33:57.039 to instead watch CNN or god forbid, MSNBC. If they go anywhere, 378 00:33:57.160 --> 00:34:01.319 they'll go to NEWSMAX or OA N or or another one of these lunatic stations, 379 00:34:01.680 --> 00:34:07.119 because again, they have built up this sense of brievents that people are 380 00:34:07.119 --> 00:34:13.119 trying to take things away from them, that the US government itself is not 381 00:34:13.239 --> 00:34:19.679 to be trusted, that you are entitled to bear arms and stand up for 382 00:34:19.760 --> 00:34:22.960 what you believe in and not let anybody tread on your rights, etcetera, 383 00:34:23.039 --> 00:34:30.440 etcetera. And the more entwined they are with that, the more difficult it 384 00:34:30.519 --> 00:34:32.960 is to even if you show them the truth, for them to change their 385 00:34:32.960 --> 00:34:37.239 minds. It happens once in a while. There's another modern phenomenon before we 386 00:34:37.280 --> 00:34:39.079 go to break, and then I want to talk a little bit about the 387 00:34:39.159 --> 00:34:43.960 radio play when we come back from the break, But before we get to 388 00:34:44.000 --> 00:34:51.000 that, many studies out and I find them fascinating that bad news and false 389 00:34:51.079 --> 00:34:57.280 news spreads much more quickly than good, truthful news. Why, Paul, 390 00:34:57.320 --> 00:35:02.400 and you're a pick Why there's like an old saying that you know, the 391 00:35:02.519 --> 00:35:07.360 lie has traveled halfway around the world before you had a chance to tie your 392 00:35:07.400 --> 00:35:15.840 shoe, right. What is it about human nature that seems to gravitate towards 393 00:35:15.920 --> 00:35:20.760 that. It's strange to me. It is strange, well, because usually 394 00:35:20.880 --> 00:35:23.960 lies are provocative. That's, you know, part of what lying is. 395 00:35:24.360 --> 00:35:30.000 And this gets back again to something that Joseph Goebbels Hitler's Minister of Propaganda and 396 00:35:30.079 --> 00:35:36.039 Popular Enlightenment, was one of the first to realize and even publicly write about 397 00:35:36.480 --> 00:35:40.159 the bigger the lie, the more attractive it is. And I don't know, 398 00:35:40.280 --> 00:35:45.880 maybe it's attractive for the same reason that fantasy is attractive. You know, 399 00:35:46.559 --> 00:35:52.719 reality is often not very put that exciting interesting, right, So, 400 00:35:52.760 --> 00:35:59.280 I mean, in some sense, it stimulates people, or at least some 401 00:35:59.400 --> 00:36:04.199 people, to think that the government is out to get me. These progressives 402 00:36:04.239 --> 00:36:07.280 are out to get me, that group of people they are out to get 403 00:36:07.320 --> 00:36:12.639 me. I have to be careful because it puts that person in a potentially 404 00:36:12.760 --> 00:36:16.840 heroic stance because the next step is, Okay, I'm going to do something 405 00:36:16.880 --> 00:36:21.519 and make sure that they don't get me. I'm going to make sure that 406 00:36:21.599 --> 00:36:25.119 the election is not stolen from Donald Trump, the best president we ever had. 407 00:36:25.480 --> 00:36:31.000 That is very exciting to some people. And yeah, it's human nature, 408 00:36:31.039 --> 00:36:37.679 and that's why it's so hard to extirpate that from our body politic and 409 00:36:37.760 --> 00:36:43.960 we're stuck with it. For the words my guest doctor Paul Levinson, we're 410 00:36:44.000 --> 00:36:46.800 talking about Fox News, the First Amendment, and so much more. This 411 00:36:47.039 --> 00:36:51.199 is being frank, We're the only way to be is Frank. I'm your 412 00:36:51.199 --> 00:36:54.480 host, Frank Labona where take a brief break and be back with more right 413 00:36:54.559 --> 00:37:00.440 after this Don't Go Away in Hudson River Radio. Be sure to check out 414 00:37:00.480 --> 00:37:06.639 another one of our podcasts, Big Jim Wheelers Classic Radio Theater. It features 415 00:37:06.679 --> 00:37:12.400 historic radio shows from the nineteen thirties through the nineteen sixties, including Dragnet, 416 00:37:12.480 --> 00:37:16.440 Gunsmoke, The Shadow, and tons of other classic hits. Check out Big 417 00:37:16.519 --> 00:37:22.400 Jim Wheelers Classic Radio Theater on Apple Podcasts, iHeart, Spotify, or wherever 418 00:37:22.480 --> 00:37:32.559 you get your podcasts. This is Hudson River Radio dot com your local Rockland 419 00:37:32.559 --> 00:37:38.039 County station. Be sure to check out Hudson River Radio's limited series podcast Live 420 00:37:38.159 --> 00:37:45.000 from Electric Lady Studios, featuring bands like Foreigner, George Thorogood and the Destroyers, 421 00:37:45.079 --> 00:37:49.800 and Alice Cooper. Live from Electric Lady Studios was produced in the nineteen 422 00:37:49.880 --> 00:37:55.039 nineties by Electric Lady for WNWFM in New York City and was hosted by legendary 423 00:37:55.119 --> 00:38:00.639 DJ Pat Saint John. It featured a different band each time and was recorded 424 00:38:00.679 --> 00:38:06.239 live with a small in studio audience. Check out Live from Electric Lady Studios 425 00:38:06.400 --> 00:38:10.719 on Apple Podcasts, iHeart, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. 426 00:38:17.559 --> 00:38:23.280 Hudson River Radio dot Com. Welcome back to Being Frank. We're the only 427 00:38:23.280 --> 00:38:28.440 way to be is Frank. I'm your host, Frank Lebono. Remember you 428 00:38:28.440 --> 00:38:31.440 can catch us here on Hudson River Radio dot com, Apple, Spotify, 429 00:38:31.599 --> 00:38:37.880 iHeartRadio, etc. Wherever and whenever you get your favorite podcasts, you can 430 00:38:37.920 --> 00:38:43.880 get Being Frank. My guest tonight is my colleague at Fordham Ordum University, 431 00:38:43.920 --> 00:38:49.239 media professor, doctor Paul Levinson. Paul, you were on a few weeks 432 00:38:49.239 --> 00:38:52.559 ago to discuss your radio play It's real life. Tell us a little bit 433 00:38:52.639 --> 00:38:57.280 more about it and what's happening with the play. We played some clips from 434 00:38:57.280 --> 00:39:00.400 IF the last time. Unfortunately don't have any queue up tonight, so tell 435 00:39:00.519 --> 00:39:05.159 us a little bit about it and what's happening with it. Well. This 436 00:39:05.239 --> 00:39:12.679 is a radio play that was adapted by then TC for Kilowatt dot coo Radio. 437 00:39:12.719 --> 00:39:16.840 It's an internet radio station. It was adapted from a short story that 438 00:39:16.960 --> 00:39:22.880 I published back in January twenty twenty two, so over a year ago, 439 00:39:22.599 --> 00:39:30.039 and I have to say they did a great job developing this into a radio 440 00:39:30.159 --> 00:39:35.960 play. The background sounds are fabulous. I think the music is great. 441 00:39:37.039 --> 00:39:43.000 We got Anne Reburn, who is a cover artist on YouTube who literally has 442 00:39:43.119 --> 00:39:49.960 ten million viewers for her most watched video to sing one of the songs in 443 00:39:50.000 --> 00:39:53.679 the radio play Real Love. And we got someone by the name of Spencer 444 00:39:53.800 --> 00:40:00.320 Hannibis lives in London, part of a group the two eighty six, to 445 00:40:00.400 --> 00:40:05.320 sing another song if I traveled to the past. The story is an alternate 446 00:40:05.440 --> 00:40:10.800 history story. It's a story about Pete Forntell, the late great disc jockey 447 00:40:10.920 --> 00:40:15.119 from WFUV, who, by the way, he started out on WFUV, 448 00:40:15.559 --> 00:40:20.920 he then went to wn e WFM, where Pat Saint John was, and 449 00:40:20.920 --> 00:40:27.159 then he came back to WFUV. One of the sweetest, most inquisitive people, 450 00:40:27.519 --> 00:40:35.000 intellectually brilliant and curious people I've ever known. And tragically he passed away 451 00:40:35.119 --> 00:40:38.480 in two thousand and twelve. And when I began thinking about writing this alternate 452 00:40:38.800 --> 00:40:44.880 history story about the Beatles, I knew I had a connected to Fordam University 453 00:40:44.880 --> 00:40:50.199 and Pete Forna Tell because he loved the Beatles also. And so this is 454 00:40:50.239 --> 00:40:54.159 a story here about Pete Forna Tell, who, way way back in nineteen 455 00:40:54.280 --> 00:41:01.960 ninety six, takes a stroll through the tunnels under Fordham. Legendary tunnels under 456 00:41:01.960 --> 00:41:05.920 Fordham, A little known secret, but big non secret, I guess in 457 00:41:06.000 --> 00:41:09.960 Fordham, at least anyway I may get better known with this radio play. 458 00:41:10.280 --> 00:41:15.599 Takes a train down to Grand Central Terminal and then quickly discovers he's in a 459 00:41:15.719 --> 00:41:22.880 world in which John Lennon was murdered in nineteen eighty and the Beatles broke up 460 00:41:22.880 --> 00:41:30.800 in nineteen seventy. This to him is shocking because in his world in nineteen 461 00:41:30.880 --> 00:41:37.119 ninety six, John Lennon is alive and well, the Beatles are still together 462 00:41:37.320 --> 00:41:42.039 in nineteen ninety six. And you know, one of the joys of writing 463 00:41:42.079 --> 00:41:46.840 Waltern realities is you can play games and see what showed up in this reality 464 00:41:46.840 --> 00:41:50.400 with that reality. So, of course, in our reality we have the 465 00:41:50.480 --> 00:41:57.039 Traveling Wilbury's, which consisted of George Harrison, Bob Dylan, Royal, Roberson, 466 00:41:57.360 --> 00:42:04.199 Jeff Lynn and Tom Petty, Pete Fauna Tell's reality, there is no 467 00:42:04.519 --> 00:42:08.000 Traveling Wilburies because the Beatles are still together in the late eighties and one of 468 00:42:08.039 --> 00:42:13.400 their big hits in the late eighties is Handled with Care, which in fact 469 00:42:13.599 --> 00:42:16.599 was a huge hit of the Traveling Wilburies after the Beatles broke up, So 470 00:42:16.920 --> 00:42:24.559 the story is studded with these little alternate reality twists. And I had the 471 00:42:24.639 --> 00:42:30.760 pleasure of playing Pete Fauna Tell, who had a more malifluous voice than I 472 00:42:30.840 --> 00:42:37.239 do, but I think I captured his spirit and I had a great time 473 00:42:37.280 --> 00:42:42.920 doing it. And I've just been bowled away by the success. It's only 474 00:42:42.920 --> 00:42:46.440 been up really for a little over a month at this point. And w 475 00:42:46.960 --> 00:42:53.960 USB Stonybrook radio station, they played the entire radio play a couple of weeks 476 00:42:53.960 --> 00:42:58.280 ago, got a great response. They're so happy with that they're going to 477 00:42:58.360 --> 00:43:04.280 be replaying the radio play actually tomorrow this coming Friday, April twenty first, 478 00:43:04.440 --> 00:43:08.239 at eleven o'clock PM, so if you want to tune into a USB, 479 00:43:08.360 --> 00:43:14.519 you can hear it again there. And there's an audio book coming out of 480 00:43:14.559 --> 00:43:17.480 the radio play. We have a great cover that's not yet totally out, 481 00:43:17.679 --> 00:43:22.719 you know the way this happens when you're publishing books. On some sites. 482 00:43:22.800 --> 00:43:25.599 It's up on Amazon, the audio book is up, but they don't have 483 00:43:25.639 --> 00:43:30.760 a picture of the cover on lame reason sites drive me crazy. But all 484 00:43:30.880 --> 00:43:36.519 that will come to be in the next couple of weeks and you know this 485 00:43:36.599 --> 00:43:39.480 is still way off, but you know I have expanded it into a novel, 486 00:43:40.079 --> 00:43:46.719 and I am working towards and hoping and even expecting that within the next 487 00:43:46.800 --> 00:43:52.960 year or two there'll either be a film or a short television series based on 488 00:43:53.039 --> 00:43:59.000 this story. So we'll talk about that later on. I certainly hope. 489 00:43:59.039 --> 00:44:01.039 So, Paul, I've listened, and it's great fun. It really is. 490 00:44:01.280 --> 00:44:06.039 I highly recommend it, really really great fun. Really, and of 491 00:44:06.079 --> 00:44:14.480 course thank you for joining us as always with your intelligent conversation. Now we 492 00:44:14.519 --> 00:44:17.559 always appreciate it. I know I can always count on you for not only 493 00:44:17.599 --> 00:44:22.559 media matters, but many issues, and we appreciate it. I had a 494 00:44:22.599 --> 00:44:28.280 great time talking to as always always, and of course a special thanks to 495 00:44:28.320 --> 00:44:31.039 our listeners who take the time to give us a voice in their lives. 496 00:44:31.599 --> 00:44:37.079 Remember we offer a fresh topic every week and you can catch us wherever and 497 00:44:37.159 --> 00:44:42.880 whenever you get your favorite podcasts. Remember that includes apples, Spotify, iHeart 498 00:44:43.000 --> 00:44:45.960 Radio, Speaker and all the rest. You can also check us out on 499 00:44:46.000 --> 00:44:51.719 the Being Frank Facebook page. Leave us a commentor too, and of course 500 00:44:51.719 --> 00:44:53.760 I'm going to leave you with a few things. A little one of my 501 00:44:53.800 --> 00:44:58.880 slogans, and then some great music from a good friend. First, this 502 00:44:58.960 --> 00:45:02.360 is from Matthew arn And I think it's very pointed. The enemy of truth 503 00:45:04.079 --> 00:45:08.440 is blind acceptance. Keep that in mind, folks. All right, you 504 00:45:08.599 --> 00:45:13.559 Fox viewers, not that they're all that many watching or listening to us. 505 00:45:13.559 --> 00:45:16.920 Here I go again, nobody's watching. We have no video anymore listening. 506 00:45:17.440 --> 00:45:21.360 I'm gonna leave you with a great tune. It's called the Gospel Truth from 507 00:45:21.360 --> 00:45:25.480 a good friend and a tremendous musician, Bob Nurcission. I'm your host, 508 00:45:25.519 --> 00:45:29.719 Frank Lebono. This has been being Frank. We're the only way to be 509 00:45:30.159 --> 00:45:32.599 is Frank. And we'll see you with a fresh show next week. Thanks 510 00:45:32.639 --> 00:46:09.079 everybody. Next time I see you, the no the truth about how I 511 00:46:09.159 --> 00:46:16.440 feel me to be with you feel me a mole man truth. It mean 512 00:46:16.679 --> 00:46:30.280 it'll be a true so people clean. They can't talk you to post falls 513 00:46:30.519 --> 00:46:37.039 like the will tell you what they said. But I don't need no spirit 514 00:46:37.000 --> 00:46:45.159 to tell me how I feel. I don't need no spirit. I don't 515 00:46:45.159 --> 00:46:52.320 need no spirit. There's no spirit I need. If I want to search 516 00:46:52.400 --> 00:47:02.760 for answer, it'll be between the mir truth to be told, I'd be 517 00:47:02.920 --> 00:47:12.199 going to try for see so greed all I got this fet booth. It 518 00:47:12.400 --> 00:47:29.079 was the time I'm any good fee And now it's the queen that's a lord. 519 00:47:30.559 --> 00:47:42.599 Is the soundtrack to my last dream. Only children in Jerksy tell the 520 00:47:42.719 --> 00:48:00.039 truth. The reason I lie is to be. It's better be the old 521 00:48:00.199 --> 00:48:09.840 man starting the young man's sleeping bitterly. Never the differency scene. It's never 522 00:48:10.280 --> 00:48:22.159 to need to learn. When it to will way, sticks and stone will 523 00:48:22.280 --> 00:48:30.639 break my bone. Words liver no time like the present when your run time. 524 00:48:36.079 --> 00:48:43.199 So the next time to see you got the true? Straight's the game. 525 00:48:44.519 --> 00:48:52.760 Never get through for the next time I see I love the true. 526 00:48:55.920 --> 00:49:15.159 When a tiff time to role Babby with the one. Only children churchs tell 527 00:49:15.239 --> 00:49:40.039 the truth. My only vital lies to live. I see people true ross 528 00:49:40.119 --> 00:49:53.760 my hold and hold to This is Hudson River Radio dot com.