Hi, everybody, there's miss Ary Allen Knows. There's a Baronoralal UK radio
show. It's a flagship show to the Paranormal UK Radio network. And with
me tonight is Mark Johnson, my co host and air producer at the radio
station, Andy Mercer. Hello, Hello, Yes, is it's not on
the radio, said my love to her Will Will. She's a chiropractic at
the moment, problem with her back. I'm home alone, home alone,
to be home alone, I think. Right, So this is it,
Mark, You wanted us to talk about something to do with the station.
Well, we just found out that feeds by dot Com they put on an
annual list of the top fifteen paranormal shows or networks out there on the Internet,
and this year Paranormal UK Radio came in in the number two spot.
Yeah. So last year we were at number one. But you know what
number two out of fifteen is, out of the thousands of other podcasts and
dozens of networks that are out there, still coming in at number two,
I will take that. Yeah. Well, we've all worked hard, a
whole lot of us, the hosts from the different shows, Andy, you
and Drew Mars. We even beat out Howard Hughes, which he's been on
forever. It is amazing. Yeah, so just and let people also know.
I mean, you can find us everywhere when you're listening to the shows
and the podcast. We are on all the different podcasts venues except right now.
Our main platform is through Spreaker, and they distribute the show to some
of the other podcast platforms like Apple and Google and such. But SoundCloud they're
having a problem with. So if you used to listen to us on SoundCloud,
we apologize speakers working on it. Your best bet is to listen to
us directly on Spreaker, or you can also find us on our website at
pa uk radio dot com. We have both our podcasts for listening on demand
and our streaming radio station, both available on our website. Mm hmm excellent.
So that's that cool. And then I think this is pretty much our
last show for the year, and we have the holidays coming up, so
I hope everybody has some good plans. Well I don't know about you too,
but I'm getting into dated with grandchildren and jokes. Well I'm doing that
is nothing at all, not a thing. We've got a couple of friends
coming Christmas Eve and that's it because ourselves Christmas Day, I mean we as
you know, we've moved very recently, so we don't know the area incredibly
one. There's no sort of immediate family nearby. But that's what we wanted,
really and quiet, so we catch up with some relatives towards Christmas with
Christs itself, you know, ie, and quiet is to do us well.
Brian and I will be spending Christmas Day just the two of us pulling
each other's crackers, but they I don't want to. I don't even know
what that means. There'll be a big bang anyway. But and uh,
the rest of the family and all the grandchildren they arrive on the following day,
Boxing Day, mm hmm. And they'll be down, I presume until
after the New Year, when I kicked them back out perhaps our family.
Yeah, expensive time for me though it really is nothing more, not for
other anymore. The kids all relatives, all grown up now. So yeah,
well, Brandon gets stuck into his bit of turkey and I'll be getting
stuck into my nutlove. And like I say, we'll be pulling crackers and
putting funny hats on. And I expect the dogs will all getting a Christmas
dinner. Don't give your dogs bruss resprits at Christmas, please people, It's
not good for them or you terrible considering. I find them particularly nasty.
I don't think I'm in any danger of that, and I don't have any
dogs. Same here, don't you know? Pussel sprouts about as much as
I like a root canal told you gotta have a Brussels sprout Christmas. That's
about we eat Christmas. Yeah, no, thank you, past thank you.
Yes, definitely not for me either. It's right up there with fruitcake.
No, oh, yes either, Oh don't you dare you two?
I have my two Christmas cakes this year, one for myself and one for
my son in London, and you making them is a different story than the
ones you buy in the store, which could last ten thousand years. Yes,
I might not spots off of those store ones. I've got to admit
that. And I'm not bragging or anything, but that is my forte making.
I can't make any other bloody cake, but I can make a Christmas
cake, and I can make a Christmas pudding. Mmmm well, just just
pour lots of rum on it and I guess it would be edible. Yes,
my Christmas cakes were made with stout. Stout went in and now I've
run out of rum, so I'm feeding them on brandy. Bad myself.
Brandy's not so bad. Yeah, you have to feed a Christmas cake we
uh huh. Yes, I thought the point was to eat a Christmas Christmas
Now you feed it first. Mm hm. I'm feeding mine with brandy,
so you know, it's got to be a pretty potent Christmas cake. But
ultimately you feed yourself with it. That's the idea. In end, yeah,
in the end, and then you can you can get drunk on my
Christmas kegs. All sounds like you're actually raising a farm animal day. You
know, you just to keep feeding it till it's ready, and then it
gets longer than eating. I thought it was a Christmas expectation to be drunk.
Yes, it's the way I should get through Christmas in my family,
and as I think it was rather merry just to deal with it all.
And we'll all sit there and watch television, and we'll watching the repeats and
everything that played for the one hundred Christmases before. That's because everyone falls asleep
the same rubbish every year. Everyone's asleep by sort of mid afternoon, it
doze enough so they don't put new programs on because everyone's asleep. Yeah that's
true. Oh good Lord in front of the television, and television is playing
away to itself. Oh yes, you know, and everyone's snoring. Ah,
that's Christmas for my own. Yes, well, speaking of with Christmas
in the old traditional way of telling ghost stories that Christmas, which we've kind
of fallen out of favor these last several decades. But we are wanting to
talk about poulter geists tonight tonight. Oh yes, so it's what exactly I
know our audience members might be asking, those who may not be as familiar,
what is a poulter geist. Well, it translates from the German as
noisy spirit or noisy ghost. They are predominantly cause physical things to occur,
objects being moved, primarily things thrown around, or things appearing to disappear or
be misplaced and entered up in unlikely places. So they don't tend to involve
actual apparitions or images like that. That kind of thing a bit of a
ghost. A poltergeist tends to be moving of objects, throwing things around,
taking things, displacing them, that sort of thing rather than sort of the
usual kind of ghostly apparition. Now, I've worked on a couple of cases
that had some poltergeist activity. I've had quarters appear out of thin air and
drop in the middle of me and other people. That was interesting. And
in the last year I've had a couple of incidents in this house. Not
really sure what's causing it, but my wallet disappeared. I tore the house
apart, and then I decided to go through every part of the house again
and I opened a drawer that I had previously searched and there was my wall
right there. That's a classic example that kind of thing occurring, where something
turns up in a place you know, for word, you've looked before and
searched, and yet it turns up there. I mean, I'll give you
a little brief story of an experience I had in the place I used to
live in London. The flat itself has only built in the sixes, but
it's actually built on the site of buildings that were hit in the war in
the Second one War bom damaged. There are are two bedroom masonets and upstairs
at the back of the mason net was a small room which I used to
use to repair flintash fountain pens and old living on minus to repair them and
sell them on secondhand. And you use a glue called copy decks. It's
a very good it's quite it's like a bit of robbery and it can expand
and it's excellent for fixing filters in fountain pens. I had a large top
of it, good sort of a couple of inches high and wide in my
office and it is a bit It completely vanished. Couldn't find it anyway,
it was just gone missing. To the point of that to buy some more
because I need it, because what I was doing about a month after it
disappeared, I was walking up the stairs in our Mason act, going up
from the ground floor to the first floor, and as you go to other
corner on the stage, look down the corridor. You look into my room,
my old office well used to prepare work, and in the middle of
the floor was the typics the copy dex pop, just sitting there in the
middle of the floor. Now, there's no way on earth it had been
there for an entire month or so that it'd been missing in the middle of
the floor. It's just impossible. So excuse me, no idea where it
had been. I had got there on the floor, but there it was.
That was pretty strange, So that that would fit into that category of
a poltergeyspectivity. It's a question, and it's a big question whether they are
the same as a ghost, whether it's supposed to be a spirit of a
person who's passed that kind of thing, or of it it's more of a
psychic entity. Shall we say? That's kind of sigh, energy that's involved
that's causing this to happen. I don't know the answer to that one.
I tend to lean towards the idea of it some kind of psychic manifestation.
I say, it's not a departed person or spirit of a person. It
is energy that's being dissipated or expanded out into the world and causing strange things
to occur. Excuse me saying that's right, That to me makes more sense.
But I think we can probably get on to what is probably the most
famous poltergeist case, certainly in the UK, possibly in the world, but
certainly in the UK, and that is one called the Enfield Poltergeist, which
is a series of extraordinary event to the curd in a house in Enfield in
North London in the nineteen seventies. It's began innocently enough with basically the woman
of the house who was a single mum. She had four children who basically
that they were hearing bangs in the wall. They seem to become some of
the two daughters both reported hearing this banging in the wall, don't know where
it was coming from, what was causing it, and then started to notice
objects were moving. Chairs were being seen to have moved across the rooms and
things were being thrown around. Didn't a heavy dressing table the room and blocked
the door or something around. One of the most the most dramatic early instances
that led to this becoming more famous was exactly that and occasional instead of drawers
moved across the bedroom floor of the two girls and blocked the doorway. The
mother was able to give it back the first time, but it must moved
back again against the door, and this time she couldn't shift it and it
took a lot of effort to get it to move, so that it began
to build up some interest what was going on. She actually contacted the police.
Of all people didn't quite know who to contact, and the police came
to investigate to see if they're been a breaking or something like that. And
on one occasion, the female police of actually witnessed a chair move across the
room. So we checked at the leveled it slightly about an inch of the
ground and moved across the room. They exchecked to see I there's any strings
or was or anything that could have moved it, and they found nothing.
There was no evidence of any kind of shenanigans by the kids or anything.
And it was fun of the police officers who's trained to observe things to you
know, as part of their work, and they were like, this is
pretty strange. They actually said, there's not a lot we can do because
there's no crime involved, but perhaps you talk to somebody else. They got
in contact. It was actually was the local press. Sorry, when this
was happening, I was working for an organization in London. I'm not going
to say, but I was working for an organization in London and it was
hitting the newspapers and every day thousand of us were proudly around one newspaper on
ads trying to read about it, you know, every day without fail.
Anything could Gere hands on just to hear about this story? Does that because
it was it was the Mirror newspaper basically found out through the police. It
was like five as an incident report where they were able to access that this
had happened. Of course, it stored up some interest and it began to
grow from there, you said. The Daily mir started reporting the events in
Enfield and it came to the attention of Society for Psychical Research and the case
was handed over to a very enthusiastic family new member called Morris Grots. Morris
was quite eccentric. He was an inventor actually found out from research. He
won the pools here and a friend won the pools, so they were able
to stop doing the normal jobs and he became an inventor. And in the
football balls. Yeah, he won eight thousand pounds, which in those days
was a lot of money, you know, awful lot. Yeah, that's
how he was able to basically full time investigate the case and worked with them
for around a year. Fairly suit into his investigation, he was joined by
a guy called Guy Lion Playfair, who'd had some very interesting experiences in Brazil,
had written a book about witchcraft and magic in Brazil, and he had
experiences of panel activity as well, and between the two of them they spent
almost a year with the family documenting all these strange things happening in the furniture,
moving objects being thrown around, doors being closed, and things along those
lines. So it was all building up to be quite a big case.
And then something happened which I think really mudded the waters and I think has
caused a lot of controversy ever since. And that was the emergence of a
voice, actual speaking voice that was heard initially just in the room. Moisturets
himself said, could hear it in the room? Is where it's coming from?
Then it came quite early, Yeah, it was coming Frost. It
was coming from Janet's eleven year old girl, who seemed to have been the
center of the activity. She seemed to have been the focus of much of
what was going on, more than her older sister Margaret or her brother Billy.
There was a fourth child, John, who wasn't there the whole time.
He as far as I understand, it was a bit of troubled and
then spent some time away from the home. Now I don't won't by going
to do it as all of that, But so he wasn't around for a
lot of what happened, but certainly Janet was a focus almost from the beginning.
In fact, she was the first person to hear the noises in the
walls. But then they say, it's a rather strange turn of this voice
started to appear. First of all, they heard what seemed no more than
like a dog barking or growling sound that seemed to come from her general vicinity.
And then it actually began to speak, and Morris Grotes recorded the voice,
and you can actually hear online the first time it starts to say words.
That goes from kind of a croaking noise to saying, Morris, it's
gross. Now the voice gets more distinct as it goes on, and it
does sound very much like the voice of an old man sort off. Now
I say sort of because if you listen to it dispassionately completely, it does
sound like a young person putting on the voice of an older man, because
sometimes the inflection is not right. It gets a bit too high pitched.
Now you could argue it's because it's Janet's vocal cords being used by this spirit,
but it was also kind of making the same sound as the voice of
a go of this particular man who identified himself as Bill Bill Wilkins, who
apparently and lived and died in the house. According to Bill Now, at
the time of the investigation, there was no corroborating evidence at all about Bill
would have existed, it was real or anything. But there is information about
him. I'll get to it in a little while. But that's what made
the case again become even more famous because this strange voice that seemed to be
coming from eleven year old girl, and how could she possibly produce this voice?
And when you hear it, you think that that would probably hurt after
not a long time talking in that voice? Absolutely? Yeah, I mean
they contended that it wasn't physically possible for a girl's vocal cores to produce that
kind of sound. Now, again, I don't know, not an expert
on vocal cords. Well, this is a slightly confusing. They did do
a test experiment where they taped over Janet's mouth and the voice did carry on
talking, which is pretty impressive if it's just been faked by her. But
when they tried it with water in her mouth and tape, she couldn't do
it. There was no voice, so it definitely leans to the idea it
really was coming from her, But what actually was the cause is a debate.
Now. The interesting is, of course, if there is this ghostly
activity of Bill and he is the cause of this movie, it does move
out of the realm of pure poltic list and becomes in your more classic haunting
case because you've got an actual ghostly presence. But whether that voice was genuinely
real, as in it was the disembodied voice of a ghost speaking through Janet
in some kind of trance medium ship, or Janet was simply making it up
as part of the events we say, It's hard to say, but for
me it's always moighty the case. I think this is a good proper poltergeist
case, and the voice was just I think them either deliberately pranking, or
what I think is more likely is that she was actually having some kind of
dissociated personality disorder that was manifest in this voice. That she wasn't deliberately pretending
to be this other person. It's like a second personality that was coming through
the reason why I tend to lean in that direction is because you can also
say that Poltergeie activity is often seen to focus around adolescent children, particularly girls.
Often best air timeframe that there could be some kind of psychic energy that's
manifesting through them and causing things to happen. There's a fairly high correlation between
teenage children being present at a property and potagalithe activity extended postul activity. I
mean not just the occasional thing moving, but things being thrown around, things
disappearing. I mean, they had the classic bent spoons long before you together
was doing this stuff. They had bent spoons in the house as well,
so they're all kind of towards that idea. But so the investigator the case
for around about a year before someone that guy lyon Playfake knew was a spiritualist
came along, had a long conversation with the girls and said afterwards, I've
cleared this house of this energy, this whatever you want to call it,
and apparently it did dramatically diminish the numbage events. It calmed right down to
the point that they stopped investigating because it was real it was happening. I've
actually spoken to Guila and played for myself as an interview with him for an
old station I was on before, which you've got. Part of that interview
is actually on our network now. I uploaded it over Halloween as the ATPF
Show, so you can hear that. But we did the second one with
him, which we didn't say unfortunately, where we talked a bit more about
the causes behind the case and what was going on, and he wouldn't get
a lot of detail about who this person was, but they were a spiritualist
who helped clear the property and made a difference. So again that leads it
back towards the idea of being an actual ghost presence. So I don't know,
but yes, like you say in a podcast activity, you don't usually
have a ghost with it exactly. This is it. They have been just
linking the fact that the story of Bill dining in his arm chair as an
excuse for this activity. Well, the funny thing was, but the interesting
was there was no way of knowing who this Bill Wilkins was. There was
no evidence, there's no records or anything that I was just getting. There's
still have found that some years after the case had really come to an end,
someone contacted Maurice S. Grouts and it was indeed the son of Bill
Wilkins, who has proven Bilkins was able to prove Wilkins had lived in that
house, and he had, as described by Janet, died in a particular
chair in the room, having from a brain hemorrhage, having gone blind.
Now, how she could possibly this is what gets really strange is how could
she possibly known those details? She could have accessed His death certificate wasn't available,
There was no computers as such about he went to the public records office.
She's an eleven year old girl. They're not going to let it go
and wander for the records. No, how the hell's youre going to find
this person? That's what makes it strange. Start to start looking. Haven't
you you know nothing nothing about who lived there before? That's exactly the point,
you know, How did you go and simply find that information? Had
she gained the other words, other than by quote psychic means well, it
was a council, ass wasn't it. Yes, he did so, he
was on the council register. Had a council Okay, it could be.
It could be that when a mother moved in, someone from the council told
her the story of Bill, and Janet's over heard her talking to someone else
about it. It could be that way, but that's the only way I
can see that she would find out exactly. I'm not exactly sure she was,
but she would be very very young. They've been there for a numbers
with her husband before the husband did the moon not flipping pack moved to woman
down the road. But it is It's one of those strange and normalist things.
I am still of the mind that it probably was just Janet faking the
voice, not necessarily deliberately, but more to do with a mental mind state
than anything else. But this is weird little details that makes it hard to
understand. How did she know that information? How does she get that so
correct? I mean, some of the other things she said were strange.
I mean, I've been trying to locate more and more of the Morris Stress's
recordings, because there's about two hundred hours of recordings he's made of what's happening,
and including all the Bill stuff that he recorded. I've been trying to
find those more information about what actually is supposed to be said by Bill.
But for a man that supposedly in his seventies, he was rather fascinated of
menstruation the young girls, which of course she Janet would have been because he
was going through it so that you know, it's like it's a bit strange
getting their own questions and answered him exactly. Yeah, it doesn't mean towards
the idea that she did fake it, but again it's that you have to
prove, and that doesn't answer all the things that we're moving about at all.
Morris as well, it's that's exactly. It's separating this voice Bill character
from the panel the potus activity. That's the thing I think is important.
That's why I find the whole Bill stuff mildly irritating because it kind of sidetracks
us down the road. Well, if I mean the fact that is the
girls did fake some of the stuff, you know, even and played for
an interview, they did. Yeah, I mean there were kids, there
were teenagers getting into teenage years who were fooling around knocking them out. But
because they did, that doesn't so you have to throw everything else, because
there's stuff that people witness first hand, directly in front of them, that
was happening with possibly a fake I really believe, right, but thanks were
moving around. Things was happening in that house. It was politicalists activity.
But the girls being the girls wanted the attention, Oh absolutely, and that's
where the faking came in, to get the attention, to make them feel
important, become the limelight of everything. I completely agree. I think that
was almost a part of it. It's like it needed to approve it.
I mean, it's an ourcolastic story about a woman called Helene Bolovatski who run
the Theosopical Society, created a theosophical society and now she was uposically psychic media
and all that. And later in life when people would come and see her,
she said sometimes that basically she did fake stuff because it was expected of
her to produce something, and when nothing was happening, she made us something
did but she's other stuff was genuine. So it's like, you know,
you're almost wish people wouldn't do that, but when you did eleven and thirteen
year old girl and an eight year old boy. Yeah, of course they're
going to muck about a bit in place. And as guy Lan said himself,
you can't tell these kids to not do that there home, you know
they lived there. They're going to muck about you, except they're going to
muck out a bit. You have to deal with that. But as He
repeatedly said, you doesn't discount the genuine events that they witnessed in the building,
that was happening for real. Yeah, I'll take a breath now,
and then of course we are dead Warren. Yes, it's going to get
onto. Yeah, don't get me started with those two. Well, the
film, The Conjuring Two is an absolute joke. Now, I love it
as a horror fil it's brilliant, but it has no eminent to what really
happened. If we've gone over there and claimed horror as over here, right,
yes, the shipe would hit the fan, wouldn't it. Totally?
But they were there for about a day. They invited themselves pretty much.
Ed was actually recorded talking about that they could make money out of this,
and then they were asked to leave after the interviewed the girls for a while
and go away. The whole stuff in the movie, if you've seen about
this demonic creature that's following Lorraine Warren round that it manifests in the house as
Valet, it's just absolute nonsense. I mean, the whole valid thing itself
nonsense. Your at no point in the I mean Valik is a valid is
a valid Shall we say there's a genuine demon that's listed to each another text.
But at no point is every described looking like a giant nun. It's
just nonsense, you know, made up of the film. But it's staggering
the number of people actually think it's an accurate portrayal of events. It really
is. Yeah, they do believe it. I had a conversation on good
old Facebook some time ago, but someone's radio I reserve judgment. I'm not
entirely sure, but basically I said, she was going to how accurate genuine
portrait was, how the lives were at risk, and I said, no,
it's not. It's a bit nonsense. They've even left out on the
main investigators. I was there. I've spoken to do directly. And then
she said, well, how do you know he wasn't making up back in
the seventies when I was, like I said, when I was working for
this organization, I got a fellow friend of mine who worked for the organization
to run me over there Ah to Enfield because I was so engrossed in it,
because you know these newspaper reports that were coming out. You just got
to magic today with the headline newspaper headings front page about ghosts and the paranol.
We just can't imagine it now, Yeah, althought, although I've lived
with it all my life and I know what goes on. But the point
is this, I don't know. I just got cold up in all the
excitement and emotions in the building I was working. Interestingly enough, the family
Hodgson family eventually did move out of the house, and the next people who
rented it to stay for three months and left. They said there was an
atmosphere. They didn't actually know about the case. That's one of the funny
things. You'd imagine. Everyone must know about this case everywhere. Yeah,
but if you didn't read the newspapers on into the newspapers, you wouldn't know.
It wasn't on TV very much, wasn't in the news news. It
was on the newspapers, but you didn't have to read that paper and you
wouldn't know about it. And they didn't know about it. They said they
never saw anything happened in the house, but there was an uncomftable atmosphere.
They did ask that they could be moved about three months after moving in.
They've part of the fame that there now have been there a long time.
They don't wish to comment basically, though, I think they get a bit
anoyed about the number of people recently been to their door. There was a
YouTube video which someone put up a little while ago who'd gone to the house,
was filming outside and the owner of the house came out and asked them
to move, which I'm not surprised really because it's a bit rude. But
it's still standing on. Yeah, it is completely still it's it's just an
ordinary house and there's nothing special about it. There's also no big tree in
the front garden as well, which is a major feature of the movie.
There was no freaking cellar either. The house. The house is the tardiest
from doctor Who. I mean, it's so big on the inside, beds
outside outside, Yeah, exactly, it's ridiculous. When they actually commented,
yeah, I know, this is what makes it laughable. Seller at all.
Of course, there's no selles on that street here. Mark built without
sellers. It's not you don't get them in this country. Unfortunately. This
is an old house that's exactly found it. The also quite the reverse of
the comment on how small the house was in so it was quite cramped.
You know, this massive mansion of the exactly yeah, I mean, they
made this big deal about this one chair, crotted chair in the corners of
the chair, Bill Wilkins died, the only one that was left in the
house, all the venture left in the house. You know, they didn't
take the furniture. The whole furniture has been there for years. It wasn't
anthing especially about that one chair. You got this like almost destitutely poor family,
but they happened to have. And if you remember the movie I Remote
Control and rero controlled TV that would cost the earth in the seventies, isn't
that where they're going to afford that my control TV? Silly little details,
I know, but he's rather irritating. But yeah, I mean it's a
great movie. But the tree that there wasn't enough funk garden to even grow
the roots of a tree, let alone the tree exactly. It was a
tiny little patch front at the front, but they couldn't. But it's world
away from what really happened there. What you basically had over that period of
almost about a year was many things being moved around, objects being dragged about.
You could witness in multiple witnesses sorry, things like objects moving see from
the outside and more than one occasion, and Janet was actually seen the levitating
or seemed to be floating across the room. Witnesses from the street saw it
jump off a bed like that. You can catch them in there with the
camera and they're floating as well. But you see they didn't see people didn't
see her jumping. The particular one I'm referring to the lollipop ladies said that
she was literally lifting, floating up and down, not jumping up down,
floating where she's up in the air. If you see her legs are topped
up underneath, she's jumping. Going to get to the photographs. It's interesting
because again it's the more detailed to those it does look for all, we
like she's jumping. I must have. I've often thought that. But interesting.
The camera man who the photographed it, he'd a rig set up that
was on a wire. As soon as you heard any noise, he clicked
it and he said, the interesting one. There's a frame of her lying
in the bed and it's something like one sixth of the second later she's in
the air. Now she moved really really quickly. This is what you're saying,
And he's not saying she wasn't a jump or anything, but it said
the speed of which she moved was quite ridiculous. It was incredibly fast,
and she got from one position to mid air in less than a second.
It's like, literally, the hell did you go far that fast? Now,
again, I'm not saying she didn't just jump in the air. She
was did gymnastics, so of course she has some skills there, which does
kind of leaning towards that being faked. But he said it was it was
the speed of which she moved. And there's another case when she's seen the
fly across the room and land on top of the radio, big gramophone type
radio, not a little tiny thing. But again they she's in a very
awkward position up there. Yeah, if you've seen the photograph, yes,
she's almost laying. Yeah, how was she balancing on that exactly when the
investigator is looking at the investigator's faces? How the hell did she get up
there looking? Yeah, Now, again, she could be extremely dexterous with
gymnastics and jumped up there. But it's one of those things because there's those
extra additional things, shall we say, that kind of really muded the water
with the whole case, And you know, I kind of wish it hadn't
happened, because I think the key is the actual panel podul ad activity,
the things being thrown and moved around, of which there are so many many
occasions. I mean, I think the witness list is something like over thirty
people in that time saw something that they couldn't explain in terms of movement of
objects and things, not just like one or two people. Over thirty.
That's a fascinating case. It is a fascinating case. Now are you learning
about this mark? Now? I am. Now, I'm gonna have to
look up. I'd like to see those photos. Yeah, they're all online.
Well, if I can direct you to a new website. I've recently
started a YouTube channel. One of the things I've I get back to why
I'm doing this at the moment, but I collect see as many examples of
first hand, actual interviews with people directly involved, and audio and photographic recordings
that have been made, trying to bring all together onto one way on YouTube
channel, because there are hundreds of them spread around, lots of little snippets,
bits and pieces that the ones that have brought them all together to one
place. The reason I'm doing that is one because I'm fascinated by the case,
of course, but two recently, Apple plus TV have made a four
part series based on the Infield Haunting, as they're calling it, and what
they've done is very, very clever. They've got actors playing the parts of
the people involved in the case, but the voices you hear are the actual
recordings, so you've got actors lip syncing what was actually recorded at the time,
and it is very good. It does open a few areas that I
didn't even know about, but apparently there's over two hundred hours, as say,
of Morris Grass's recordings they've used. I mean that prole progress in about
four hours long. And it's not all just the recording, so we need
to only fraction of what was actually recording. And I'd love to hear more
of what's been recorded. But to say it's thought, it'd be nice to
bring it all together. It's on YouTube of call it the Enfant. Yeah,
I'm going to say bringing it all together, you know, that helps
people to find as much as they can in one place with that and hunt
everywhere. If they look on YouTube, look for the Enfield Hauntings. The
evidence as I'm calling it, basically a route one description, but that's what
the channel's actually called. But they got a few bits on the now,
but doing almost daily at the moment. Another one i'd like to see you
do rectory. Oh yes, yes, of course. Unfortunately it's all gone
now, but I do know Chap who's legitimately gained it, legally a piece
of the in the grounds of ball Erectro. There's like a stone in one
corner that marks the garden the area. It's like things on his garden legitimately
acquired came fire Peter Underhill, my friend Eddie b Eddie Brazil, Eddie Brazil
and the other guy's name basically inherited Underhill's collection when he passed away, including
bits of bad directory itself and a cop ha was on that one, wasn't
he. Oh yeah, yeah, most famous for that one. Yeah.
He's buried down in Paulborough, near where I was born, five miles from
the village I was born in Sussex. I was going to say, also,
Walley Churchyard is meant to be haunted. Indeed, it is to the
point now that it's got spotlights on it that will activate if you walk into
the grounds at night. They got so fed up with it there. But
again I know someone who spent the evening before the lights are set up in
the grounds of the church, and they had all sorts of strange noises inside
the church. So there were very definitely sounds banging, crashing around inside the
locked up church, very definitely. Also there was tourists have been taken there
and the one occasion and a group of American tourists them a coach and had
no idea the rectory didn't exist anymore walking around that where's Baldy Rectory? Were
you here? You're hid it? You know it's our housing estate under false
pretenties, shall we say that they've been falled into believing that it was still
there and it's not there at all. The directory was very close to the
church, wasn't it originally across the road if you like, a bit further
off, Yeah, quite close. Do you think it could be anything to
do with the actual land around there, because you're getting all this in the
church, the church, the rectory, Well, it's one of the other
things. What they really say it was. It's always one of the ghost
theories if you like, is that what happens is the area itself own localized
em atro mentic field records events, and those events replay themselves under the right
circumstances like brain interaction. Being electro chemical brains, of course, they interact
with the em field and it triggers off responses events. So what you can
see is it was adual haunting. For like the GHOSTI figures being seen,
is that kind of replaying a past events. So that's that's exactly what I
had in this house. The other day, I came out of the utility
room, which is part of the old kitchen, which is the original old
kitchen to the house. I came out of there and as just after came
out and there's a little area which i'd call a bootroom w which chuck out
weady boots and everything. I just got to there and I heard humming behind
me in the room. Ah. Interesting, And I stopped and I listened
and I heard it again, just humming. I heard three times it hum
You know, there was this humming coming from their room behind me, and
I was about a foot foot and a half from the door. That's residual
energy, obviously, you know. To fit that description, I mean that
my old place having long after anything to happen in this house my old place,
just bite being in one house of the nineties, there were definitely things
going on there along the lines of politicass activity. Objects are definitely being moved,
do you mean move from one room into another different part of the room
that just couldn't have been It was just myself and my wife. We didn't
move things. I mean one occasion, one thing went from being beside the
sink basically in the kitchen to on top of a cabinet with next to the
flower father arses that were like, well, there's just no way it could
have been thrown or it had to be placed there by something and somebody.
It couldn't have moved any other way, we know, for neither of us
put it out there. Yeah. Well, Mark and I were talking on
the show last week about so a little bit about podcasts activit day because we
were prepping for this show coming up. Mark's talking about how he gets money,
I get stones. But they today definitely have podcast activities today. Really,
well, about two hours ago, I have stopped vaping, right,
so I've gone around the house and I've clicked it anything to do with vapes,
and I've put them into a big carrier bag and Brian's going to take
them, have them disposed of properly. Good. And I had this tiny
little vape. It wasn't very good and it didn't work very well, and
it was only the size of it was about three inches long. It was
a little pocket thing. And I know that was in that bag, in
that carrier bag, because I saw it when I put it in there.
Now this from all this carrier bag was put away with all these vapes or
over a week ago. Okay, Brian knows where they are. I don't
know where they are. I'm sitting in the office on the couch watching the
television. This afternoon, I got up, I went out to make a
cup of tea. They came back. I sat down. I heard something
fall to the floor and it was this little black vape. Where the bloody
hell. You know how the hell it got out of that bag? I
don't know the m These are the little mysteries that go on almost day to
day that it's not going to get me smoking again. I tell you I'm
not puffing away at any more vapes tangerine at the moment. That's good.
That's much better. I'd be honest you. I think political life type activity
is actually fairly common, but we tend to dismiss it, being like,
oh, just one of those things. But the idea that cygh energy we
want to call it, that emanates from us. It's very real. I
mean I probably told the story before, and now what I mention it now?
I'm I'm psychotherapist. I was I must have kind of seemi retired now
of something hublisher company. But obviously I work with clients in my office and
people get emotional, get upset. It's perfectly normally working with therapy. I
had one guy in particular, every single time he got upset, my ceiling
cracked every time. Now, my ceiling had there's no loft hat. It's
a small basically was a coveted garage at the front of the house. But
it's got a little like a triangular roof to it. There's no way up
there. But it would crack. Not just once or twice, but every
time he got upset. Now he got upset quite often. It was the
therapy it would see would crack. It's like, where the hell's that coming
from. It was just very strange. What even he started to notice,
even though he was getting the motion upset. A boy stuff. He's noticed.
What's that noise? I said, I don't know. It seems to
happen when you're upset. It's a good thing. Means you're getting emotions.
Ut me. He's thinking, yeah, it's a weird thing actually, But
yeah, so that was quite strange. So you know the idea of his
releasing sigh energy if you're like that can cause things to happen, to be
able to move around and crash about. I don't have a big issue with
that being the explanation of things like the NPO poty gist that it wasn't this
dis ebodled the spirit of a man who lived and died in the house that
was superfluous. Actually was still stuck with the idea where they held did Jennet
get the information from in the first place? But I don't think it's more
likely to have been they were playing a part of that and the actual pan
almost off was the polders. The movement that's crashing and banging, things moving
around, flying around the room. Things not so people, but things going
around the room. Certainly, No, that's strange, isn't it. You
know I've had pots activity here. Oh since we moved in it doesn't happen
a lot, but when it does happen, it happens big time. Yeah.
It was the time I wrote in my book, I think about Della,
my daughter in law, going to the shop, coming back with a
load of loose change, saying, here's the you know, here's a change,
as a chuck it on top of the fridge. So she just threw
it on the fridge. It just went everywhere, all over the top of
the fridge, and we left it there. Got up the following morning and
it was all piled up, the biggest coins at the bottom, all the
queen's heads facing upwards, bigguse coins at the bottom, then the next scise
point, and so it takes it to the top. And it was so
perfectly done that each coin was centurized on the coin below it. And I
couldn't do it. I couldn't get it perfect. Another time, had a
friend come to stay, and it was in the bedroom where Mark stays when
he comes here. I had some books on the window sill, some wide
window sill. There were some books on the window sill and they were all
stacked up. When people do that pyramid with playing cards, it was like
that. She walked into the room. It was that this pyramid and boots.
Yeah, that's pretty impressive. And how they were staying, you know,
how they stayed there without moving, I don't know. It's pretty impressive.
Because she walked across the floors, floorboards, You think it was just
shook and vibration would have brought them down. And when she called me up,
and when I touched the just top led and I only touched lightly.
It was really funny. A few times I've been on parallel investigations, we've
had things, objects thrown at us. One that stands one that really stands
out from us actually was a It was basically an old church. It was
a modern Victorian billy. It wasn't like an ancient church, but it was
completely closed down. It was falling into disuse. And the property itself has
now been rented by a spiritualist group who Christian spirituist types, and they'd had
lots of noises and bangs and crashes going on. They contacted the group I
used to lead. It was a friend of a friend of a friend time
of connection and there was a very sort of family connection to it. And
the six of us went with three members of the of the Spiritualist Church who
rented the place. They were there with us, and one occasion we were
just standing in the corner of the ground floor that's like a big open area
to a conversation, and this stone flew across the room, hit the wall
right beside me, and then fell onto the floor right on my foot.
When I picked the stone up. It was very hot, it really was,
And there was no way. I mean, the windows themselves were completely
boarded up. They were actually metal covers over them, so it wasn't even
like you can just pull a bit of a way to through. No,
it was anyone from outside. There was no one in the group because we
were all nine of us were together having a cup of tea, and yet
this stone flew across the room. I say it was very hot. That's
what I think it really struck as was how warm it was. I've had
stones come when we've all been in the kitchen. I've had stones fall out
of the ceiling in the kitchen ah and they never hit me, They never
hit me. So it felt this particular one this day that everyone was what
saw come out of the ceiling, fell straight down behind me, went down
behind the radiator and fell on the floor underneath the radiator. Wow, my
hallway. When I first moved in, I was always a little pile of
stone somewhere that had been thrown at me. Cleaning the hallway, floor dusting
or something like that. I was always getting stone thrown at me, and
they would come from the office area straight down the hallway to wherever I was.
Some the stone would be heading to hit the front door. But yeah,
no used to come at such a force. But they never hit me
well, for you just bounced off the wall and then flatering on my foots.
It was named at me directly. But there's a couple of times over
the years of investigations we have definitely had objects have been thrown and the uniform
thing that's true of all of them has been there been hot. There's something
to do with a heat effect than being moved that causes them to get warm
when they're thrown around. It's very strange, Mark Mark, when you found
that dollar on the bed, do you think it had been there for a
little while or was that womb when you touched it, Well, it was
a quarter and twenty five cent piece. Just to give some context, I've
told the story before, but the day of my wife's funeral, her cousins,
I invited them to stay the night here since it was such a long
drive home. So I went in to get the guest room made up,
and they're lying in the middle of the bed was this quarter, and I
looked at it. I didn't touch it immediately, but I looked at it
and going, where in the heck did this come from? Because I'd been
in this house a week, the only one here, and there was no
quarter on that bed, so it was perfectly placed almost in the center of
the bed. And when I looked at it, it was tail up and
the tails portion was it was We have a whole commemorative series of quarters that
on the back had each of the fifty states on there. Well, this
state was Colorado, where my family is from, which I took to be
very significant. Now, when I did pick it up, it felt totally
normal to me. So it's possible it happened while I was away that morning
and then I just came home and found it. Yeah, it could have
been there for a while then. Yeah. So, and the ones that
appeared during the investigation we did. We picked them up, and I don't
remember feeling any excess heat on them. Now, one of the things I
was really trying to debunk is if the clients themselves flicking them without us noticing.
And I mean, I can't sit here and say one hundred percent no,
they weren't, because there were several of us in the room, and
in some confusion, maybe they saw an opportunity and flipped it. I don't
know. And at one point I'm walking into the living room and the one
homeowner, she's right behind me, and a quarter flew over her head and
landed right in between us. Can I say? My back was to her,
so I couldn't see where it came from. So you know, there's
still those kernels of doubt in something like that. What a friend of mine
wants to scrub is the tricks, the element that they don't do. None
of these things happen right in front of you, before your eyes. You
can see it. They tend to be almost in the periphery or just to
the edge they are, so you can't be one hundred percent certain. They
definitely know they are of power origin, But it seems to be as if
the whatever causes it doesn't want it to be too obvious. They'd kind of
like to fool you or trick you into these things. Another good example that
I experienced there was a place of Winchester Mansion, which I've been too,
a number of which I've mentioned them Suan before. We Actually it's an amazing
place. I'm having to get this sometime next year. Actually it is now
much closer to it than it used to be, so talk about that.
But we were actually videoing. There was about six of us standing together in
a corridor. I'm at the front hold in the camera facing us, and
you see a stone fly over us and it lands on the ground. And
again it was warm. But you can't be certain that when I mean,
we know that no one behind us. You can't prove it in the video,
of course, it's just black behind us. But you see the stone
come over our shoulders, over our heads, literally in land in front of
us or in front of me beyond the camera. You see it fly over
and you hear it land. But there's we know there was no one at
the other end of the corridor who'd have thrown at but you can't prove it.
You know, if you could see it suddenly appear from the wall and
shoot across and that's brilliant stuff. But you just don't get that sort of
thing. It always just sort of like I said, that did happen in
my kitchen. Yeah, came through the ceiling right in front of everyone.
Again. Back in the old days of the Earth Quest of Any, Collins
used to run a monthly meet up in leon Sea down the road from I
used to live, to have a circled meditation at the end of the sort
of the get together, the talk about the panel stuff we investigate over the
month or so. And this blue glass bead thing appeared in the middle of
the group. He literally just appeared from nowhere in the work. It came
from about twenty It wasitting around, but no one rolled it into the middle.
If they did, a perfect dame and there was all regular the people
we knew that wouldn't have faked this. As the funny thing is about all
this, they Mark says, it was nearly in the middle of the bed.
You said, right in the middle with the bead. How and why
is it so important to particist activity or whatever to get everything central in the
right place. Well, it certainly gets your attention, doesn't it. If
it was like on the corner of the bed or just in kind of a
random location. You would tend to blow it off more. But uh yeah,
it's perfectly centered. I mean that catches your attention, like, why
would say you put it there? It's the same as my money in the
kitchen. Yeah. So like the copy decks, as I said at the
beginning, that was in the middle of the floor. The room's quite small.
It was sort of ten foot square, like it's pretty tiny, but
it was in the middle of the floor. There's no way it could have
been there the whole time. It had to be placed there by someone or
something. And to say, my wife and I didn't move it. My
wife's mom lived with us at that point and she was absolutely am which I
believed that she didn't move it there. It's just not her things, not
that doesn't do things like that. So it was just that mystery how it
where one wed been all that time because I searched everywhere and to how it
got there, just to completely history. Well, as far as I'm concerned,
we can out rule adolescent teenager in all their cases. Definitely Mark as
well. Well, I know, I'm I know how immature I am.
So yeah, so how is it doing it if everybody's saying, okay,
it's adds some teenager or whatever, or a mixed up teenager. That's not
happening. Now, How is it? The cases I've been involved in investigating
where you've had that kind of activity in someone's house, there's almost university being
young kids around in the family, and almost university troubled kids as well.
It does enough. I keep mine two hundred and fifty miles away. I
don't have any even easier. Well, I will say I didn't even tell
you this, Irene, but after months of nothing happening, my garage door
opened by it off again just to get a couple of days ago, and
I was sitting up here in the office and all of a sudden I hear
it opening downstairs, and I run down. Of course, nobody's there,
and it hasn't done that in months. Comes maybe think you catch on camera
or anything. Well, but if you did have a camera down it wouldn't
happened. I did have a camera down there, and fortunately it wasn't sensitive
enough to catch the door opening. It would catch it was motion detecting.
It would only uh detect my car when my car pulled in and was almost
right on top of it, so and it happened so randomly. Now,
I had heard a story once that somebody says was telling me about you know
that if you get spiders or something inside the electronics and then moving around could
trigger it to open and close. But we're the fact that it hadn't happened
in months and now all of a sudden does again. I'm very scared of
that explanation. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think it's one of the
issues we have with this sort of phenomenon. It defies normal explanation. It's
not the sort of thing you could replicate it probably keys. You can't replicate
these sort of things in a laboratory. That's one of the biggest problems in
the scientific validation of these things. Require you to replicate it under scientific second
science of the world'm looking for but conditions. But this is sort of thing
you can't is by its nature, it's from the world out there around us.
You know, you can't just sort of go into laboratory and expect panel
activity to a co sevent in someone's house you've been observing. You can't replicate
it that way. It's just it's crazy. Yeah, well, I agree
that it's one of those odd things about the nature of reality that you know,
we just don't know. It's definitely happening. There could be several different
explanations, but they all tend to involve a paranormal aspect to it, which,
of course science would automatically dismiss. Yeah. So I've said quite often
of sort of the general sort of stuff like panorm will be a cult whatever.
These things happen too often to be coincidence, but not often enough to
be provable. In that kind of gray area where it's too common a too
happens too often would be just coincidence, but not often enough to be quantifiable
and provable. That's the problem. Hmmm, that's a phenomenon in that middle
ground where it's just too often to be pure coincidence but not enough to prove
Yeah. Fascinating, Absolutely fascinating. Well, I think we've come to the
end of the show. Great way to go out before Christmas, the three
of us getting together. We're going to have to do this again, definitely,
definitely, because I have a lot more cases I could talk about too.
I also say I'm genuinely a lot more freer than I used to be
now I don't want to see clients every day of the week. I am
more time to do things like these shows and be great to work together the
three of us. Again. It's been a long time, Yes it has,
Yes, it has. So everyone, thank you for tuning in.
Thank you everyone for tuning in to the end of the year edition of the
Paranormal UK Radio Show. The flagship show here on the Paranormal UK Radio Network
rated number two of all the networks out there by feet spot, so I
got to give that another plug. And where can people find us? I
mean everywhere and spreater speaker and everywhere else spreaker speaker speaker that sounds it's like
speaker but with an R speaker. Yeah all right, well everybody, thank
you very much for tuning in. We hope everyone has a wonderful and save
holiday and we will catch you all in the coming year. Uh, be
good humans, We will catch you next time. Bye bye bye time.
That's good. Yeah, that's good. Enjoy that can't one as usually do
with subjects and the income. I hope that made sentence again. Teeth ast