1 00:00:56,039 --> 00:01:00,880 Hi, everybody, there's miss Ary Allen Knows. There's a Baronoralal UK radio 2 00:01:00,079 --> 00:01:07,200 show. It's a flagship show to the Paranormal UK Radio network. And with 3 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:12,280 me tonight is Mark Johnson, my co host and air producer at the radio 4 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:27,480 station, Andy Mercer. Hello, Hello, Yes, is it's not on 5 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:34,640 the radio, said my love to her Will Will. She's a chiropractic at 6 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:40,760 the moment, problem with her back. I'm home alone, home alone, 7 00:01:41,799 --> 00:01:48,200 to be home alone, I think. Right, So this is it, 8 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:52,079 Mark, You wanted us to talk about something to do with the station. 9 00:01:52,760 --> 00:02:02,719 Well, we just found out that feeds by dot Com they put on an 10 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:14,360 annual list of the top fifteen paranormal shows or networks out there on the Internet, 11 00:02:14,599 --> 00:02:20,800 and this year Paranormal UK Radio came in in the number two spot. 12 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:29,039 Yeah. So last year we were at number one. But you know what 13 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:35,919 number two out of fifteen is, out of the thousands of other podcasts and 14 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:38,960 dozens of networks that are out there, still coming in at number two, 15 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:46,439 I will take that. Yeah. Well, we've all worked hard, a 16 00:02:46,479 --> 00:02:51,919 whole lot of us, the hosts from the different shows, Andy, you 17 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:57,680 and Drew Mars. We even beat out Howard Hughes, which he's been on 18 00:02:57,759 --> 00:03:07,319 forever. It is amazing. Yeah, so just and let people also know. 19 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:13,240 I mean, you can find us everywhere when you're listening to the shows 20 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:19,520 and the podcast. We are on all the different podcasts venues except right now. 21 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:25,800 Our main platform is through Spreaker, and they distribute the show to some 22 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:34,319 of the other podcast platforms like Apple and Google and such. But SoundCloud they're 23 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:38,240 having a problem with. So if you used to listen to us on SoundCloud, 24 00:03:38,319 --> 00:03:43,599 we apologize speakers working on it. Your best bet is to listen to 25 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:47,840 us directly on Spreaker, or you can also find us on our website at 26 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:53,759 pa uk radio dot com. We have both our podcasts for listening on demand 27 00:03:53,879 --> 00:04:02,840 and our streaming radio station, both available on our website. Mm hmm excellent. 28 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:10,840 So that's that cool. And then I think this is pretty much our 29 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:17,360 last show for the year, and we have the holidays coming up, so 30 00:04:17,399 --> 00:04:23,959 I hope everybody has some good plans. Well I don't know about you too, 31 00:04:24,079 --> 00:04:29,040 but I'm getting into dated with grandchildren and jokes. Well I'm doing that 32 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:30,800 is nothing at all, not a thing. We've got a couple of friends 33 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:35,000 coming Christmas Eve and that's it because ourselves Christmas Day, I mean we as 34 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:39,160 you know, we've moved very recently, so we don't know the area incredibly 35 00:04:39,199 --> 00:04:42,720 one. There's no sort of immediate family nearby. But that's what we wanted, 36 00:04:42,759 --> 00:04:46,120 really and quiet, so we catch up with some relatives towards Christmas with 37 00:04:46,199 --> 00:04:50,279 Christs itself, you know, ie, and quiet is to do us well. 38 00:04:50,319 --> 00:04:55,040 Brian and I will be spending Christmas Day just the two of us pulling 39 00:04:55,079 --> 00:05:00,600 each other's crackers, but they I don't want to. I don't even know 40 00:05:00,639 --> 00:05:09,920 what that means. There'll be a big bang anyway. But and uh, 41 00:05:10,879 --> 00:05:15,040 the rest of the family and all the grandchildren they arrive on the following day, 42 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:21,120 Boxing Day, mm hmm. And they'll be down, I presume until 43 00:05:21,199 --> 00:05:29,120 after the New Year, when I kicked them back out perhaps our family. 44 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:38,040 Yeah, expensive time for me though it really is nothing more, not for 45 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:43,639 other anymore. The kids all relatives, all grown up now. So yeah, 46 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:46,240 well, Brandon gets stuck into his bit of turkey and I'll be getting 47 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:49,279 stuck into my nutlove. And like I say, we'll be pulling crackers and 48 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:55,720 putting funny hats on. And I expect the dogs will all getting a Christmas 49 00:05:55,800 --> 00:06:00,160 dinner. Don't give your dogs bruss resprits at Christmas, please people, It's 50 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:09,519 not good for them or you terrible considering. I find them particularly nasty. 51 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:12,680 I don't think I'm in any danger of that, and I don't have any 52 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:18,360 dogs. Same here, don't you know? Pussel sprouts about as much as 53 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:26,000 I like a root canal told you gotta have a Brussels sprout Christmas. That's 54 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:32,519 about we eat Christmas. Yeah, no, thank you, past thank you. 55 00:06:32,879 --> 00:06:36,240 Yes, definitely not for me either. It's right up there with fruitcake. 56 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:45,160 No, oh, yes either, Oh don't you dare you two? 57 00:06:46,079 --> 00:06:49,680 I have my two Christmas cakes this year, one for myself and one for 58 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:56,680 my son in London, and you making them is a different story than the 59 00:06:56,720 --> 00:07:00,240 ones you buy in the store, which could last ten thousand years. Yes, 60 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:04,800 I might not spots off of those store ones. I've got to admit 61 00:07:04,879 --> 00:07:10,480 that. And I'm not bragging or anything, but that is my forte making. 62 00:07:10,639 --> 00:07:13,759 I can't make any other bloody cake, but I can make a Christmas 63 00:07:13,759 --> 00:07:17,439 cake, and I can make a Christmas pudding. Mmmm well, just just 64 00:07:17,439 --> 00:07:21,000 pour lots of rum on it and I guess it would be edible. Yes, 65 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:30,160 my Christmas cakes were made with stout. Stout went in and now I've 66 00:07:30,199 --> 00:07:38,000 run out of rum, so I'm feeding them on brandy. Bad myself. 67 00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:43,560 Brandy's not so bad. Yeah, you have to feed a Christmas cake we 68 00:07:44,879 --> 00:07:48,240 uh huh. Yes, I thought the point was to eat a Christmas Christmas 69 00:07:48,319 --> 00:07:55,199 Now you feed it first. Mm hm. I'm feeding mine with brandy, 70 00:07:55,399 --> 00:08:00,399 so you know, it's got to be a pretty potent Christmas cake. But 71 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:03,639 ultimately you feed yourself with it. That's the idea. In end, yeah, 72 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:07,959 in the end, and then you can you can get drunk on my 73 00:08:07,079 --> 00:08:13,240 Christmas kegs. All sounds like you're actually raising a farm animal day. You 74 00:08:13,279 --> 00:08:15,160 know, you just to keep feeding it till it's ready, and then it 75 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:22,360 gets longer than eating. I thought it was a Christmas expectation to be drunk. 76 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:24,199 Yes, it's the way I should get through Christmas in my family, 77 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:30,079 and as I think it was rather merry just to deal with it all. 78 00:08:31,279 --> 00:08:35,879 And we'll all sit there and watch television, and we'll watching the repeats and 79 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:41,960 everything that played for the one hundred Christmases before. That's because everyone falls asleep 80 00:08:41,759 --> 00:08:46,000 the same rubbish every year. Everyone's asleep by sort of mid afternoon, it 81 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:50,039 doze enough so they don't put new programs on because everyone's asleep. Yeah that's 82 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:58,320 true. Oh good Lord in front of the television, and television is playing 83 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:05,720 away to itself. Oh yes, you know, and everyone's snoring. Ah, 84 00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:11,679 that's Christmas for my own. Yes, well, speaking of with Christmas 85 00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:18,879 in the old traditional way of telling ghost stories that Christmas, which we've kind 86 00:09:18,919 --> 00:09:24,159 of fallen out of favor these last several decades. But we are wanting to 87 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:35,679 talk about poulter geists tonight tonight. Oh yes, so it's what exactly I 88 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:39,840 know our audience members might be asking, those who may not be as familiar, 89 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:45,919 what is a poulter geist. Well, it translates from the German as 90 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:52,039 noisy spirit or noisy ghost. They are predominantly cause physical things to occur, 91 00:09:52,159 --> 00:09:58,720 objects being moved, primarily things thrown around, or things appearing to disappear or 92 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:03,919 be misplaced and entered up in unlikely places. So they don't tend to involve 93 00:10:05,799 --> 00:10:09,159 actual apparitions or images like that. That kind of thing a bit of a 94 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:15,519 ghost. A poltergeist tends to be moving of objects, throwing things around, 95 00:10:15,879 --> 00:10:20,159 taking things, displacing them, that sort of thing rather than sort of the 96 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:26,320 usual kind of ghostly apparition. Now, I've worked on a couple of cases 97 00:10:26,399 --> 00:10:31,039 that had some poltergeist activity. I've had quarters appear out of thin air and 98 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:37,639 drop in the middle of me and other people. That was interesting. And 99 00:10:39,159 --> 00:10:43,879 in the last year I've had a couple of incidents in this house. Not 100 00:10:43,919 --> 00:10:48,720 really sure what's causing it, but my wallet disappeared. I tore the house 101 00:10:48,759 --> 00:10:56,080 apart, and then I decided to go through every part of the house again 102 00:10:56,240 --> 00:11:00,120 and I opened a drawer that I had previously searched and there was my wall 103 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:05,399 right there. That's a classic example that kind of thing occurring, where something 104 00:11:05,799 --> 00:11:07,559 turns up in a place you know, for word, you've looked before and 105 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:11,639 searched, and yet it turns up there. I mean, I'll give you 106 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:15,279 a little brief story of an experience I had in the place I used to 107 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:18,720 live in London. The flat itself has only built in the sixes, but 108 00:11:18,759 --> 00:11:20,960 it's actually built on the site of buildings that were hit in the war in 109 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:28,120 the Second one War bom damaged. There are are two bedroom masonets and upstairs 110 00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:31,399 at the back of the mason net was a small room which I used to 111 00:11:31,519 --> 00:11:35,720 use to repair flintash fountain pens and old living on minus to repair them and 112 00:11:35,759 --> 00:11:41,080 sell them on secondhand. And you use a glue called copy decks. It's 113 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:45,720 a very good it's quite it's like a bit of robbery and it can expand 114 00:11:45,759 --> 00:11:50,440 and it's excellent for fixing filters in fountain pens. I had a large top 115 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:52,480 of it, good sort of a couple of inches high and wide in my 116 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:56,840 office and it is a bit It completely vanished. Couldn't find it anyway, 117 00:11:56,879 --> 00:12:00,919 it was just gone missing. To the point of that to buy some more 118 00:12:00,919 --> 00:12:03,039 because I need it, because what I was doing about a month after it 119 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:07,440 disappeared, I was walking up the stairs in our Mason act, going up 120 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:11,799 from the ground floor to the first floor, and as you go to other 121 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:15,519 corner on the stage, look down the corridor. You look into my room, 122 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:18,000 my old office well used to prepare work, and in the middle of 123 00:12:18,039 --> 00:12:22,200 the floor was the typics the copy dex pop, just sitting there in the 124 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:26,000 middle of the floor. Now, there's no way on earth it had been 125 00:12:26,039 --> 00:12:28,720 there for an entire month or so that it'd been missing in the middle of 126 00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:35,000 the floor. It's just impossible. So excuse me, no idea where it 127 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:37,240 had been. I had got there on the floor, but there it was. 128 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:41,039 That was pretty strange, So that that would fit into that category of 129 00:12:41,039 --> 00:12:46,639 a poltergeyspectivity. It's a question, and it's a big question whether they are 130 00:12:46,679 --> 00:12:50,600 the same as a ghost, whether it's supposed to be a spirit of a 131 00:12:50,679 --> 00:12:54,679 person who's passed that kind of thing, or of it it's more of a 132 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:58,159 psychic entity. Shall we say? That's kind of sigh, energy that's involved 133 00:12:58,159 --> 00:13:01,279 that's causing this to happen. I don't know the answer to that one. 134 00:13:01,799 --> 00:13:07,600 I tend to lean towards the idea of it some kind of psychic manifestation. 135 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:11,200 I say, it's not a departed person or spirit of a person. It 136 00:13:11,279 --> 00:13:18,159 is energy that's being dissipated or expanded out into the world and causing strange things 137 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:24,960 to occur. Excuse me saying that's right, That to me makes more sense. 138 00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:31,120 But I think we can probably get on to what is probably the most 139 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:35,320 famous poltergeist case, certainly in the UK, possibly in the world, but 140 00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:39,559 certainly in the UK, and that is one called the Enfield Poltergeist, which 141 00:13:39,639 --> 00:13:45,200 is a series of extraordinary event to the curd in a house in Enfield in 142 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:52,720 North London in the nineteen seventies. It's began innocently enough with basically the woman 143 00:13:52,759 --> 00:13:58,879 of the house who was a single mum. She had four children who basically 144 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:03,159 that they were hearing bangs in the wall. They seem to become some of 145 00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:05,720 the two daughters both reported hearing this banging in the wall, don't know where 146 00:14:05,759 --> 00:14:09,679 it was coming from, what was causing it, and then started to notice 147 00:14:09,879 --> 00:14:13,799 objects were moving. Chairs were being seen to have moved across the rooms and 148 00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:24,279 things were being thrown around. Didn't a heavy dressing table the room and blocked 149 00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:28,559 the door or something around. One of the most the most dramatic early instances 150 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:33,840 that led to this becoming more famous was exactly that and occasional instead of drawers 151 00:14:33,879 --> 00:14:37,440 moved across the bedroom floor of the two girls and blocked the doorway. The 152 00:14:37,519 --> 00:14:41,000 mother was able to give it back the first time, but it must moved 153 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:43,399 back again against the door, and this time she couldn't shift it and it 154 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:48,480 took a lot of effort to get it to move, so that it began 155 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:50,759 to build up some interest what was going on. She actually contacted the police. 156 00:14:50,799 --> 00:14:54,399 Of all people didn't quite know who to contact, and the police came 157 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:58,279 to investigate to see if they're been a breaking or something like that. And 158 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:01,879 on one occasion, the female police of actually witnessed a chair move across the 159 00:15:01,919 --> 00:15:05,720 room. So we checked at the leveled it slightly about an inch of the 160 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:09,399 ground and moved across the room. They exchecked to see I there's any strings 161 00:15:09,519 --> 00:15:11,879 or was or anything that could have moved it, and they found nothing. 162 00:15:11,919 --> 00:15:16,120 There was no evidence of any kind of shenanigans by the kids or anything. 163 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:20,320 And it was fun of the police officers who's trained to observe things to you 164 00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:24,480 know, as part of their work, and they were like, this is 165 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:26,919 pretty strange. They actually said, there's not a lot we can do because 166 00:15:26,919 --> 00:15:31,919 there's no crime involved, but perhaps you talk to somebody else. They got 167 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:37,879 in contact. It was actually was the local press. Sorry, when this 168 00:15:39,039 --> 00:15:41,720 was happening, I was working for an organization in London. I'm not going 169 00:15:41,759 --> 00:15:46,240 to say, but I was working for an organization in London and it was 170 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:54,960 hitting the newspapers and every day thousand of us were proudly around one newspaper on 171 00:15:54,039 --> 00:15:58,039 ads trying to read about it, you know, every day without fail. 172 00:15:58,519 --> 00:16:03,919 Anything could Gere hands on just to hear about this story? Does that because 173 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:08,919 it was it was the Mirror newspaper basically found out through the police. It 174 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:11,600 was like five as an incident report where they were able to access that this 175 00:16:11,679 --> 00:16:15,960 had happened. Of course, it stored up some interest and it began to 176 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:18,480 grow from there, you said. The Daily mir started reporting the events in 177 00:16:18,679 --> 00:16:26,720 Enfield and it came to the attention of Society for Psychical Research and the case 178 00:16:26,799 --> 00:16:30,679 was handed over to a very enthusiastic family new member called Morris Grots. Morris 179 00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:34,559 was quite eccentric. He was an inventor actually found out from research. He 180 00:16:34,639 --> 00:16:37,320 won the pools here and a friend won the pools, so they were able 181 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:42,240 to stop doing the normal jobs and he became an inventor. And in the 182 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:45,759 football balls. Yeah, he won eight thousand pounds, which in those days 183 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:51,039 was a lot of money, you know, awful lot. Yeah, that's 184 00:16:51,039 --> 00:16:56,159 how he was able to basically full time investigate the case and worked with them 185 00:16:56,440 --> 00:17:00,480 for around a year. Fairly suit into his investigation, he was joined by 186 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:04,799 a guy called Guy Lion Playfair, who'd had some very interesting experiences in Brazil, 187 00:17:04,839 --> 00:17:07,680 had written a book about witchcraft and magic in Brazil, and he had 188 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:11,680 experiences of panel activity as well, and between the two of them they spent 189 00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:17,640 almost a year with the family documenting all these strange things happening in the furniture, 190 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:22,920 moving objects being thrown around, doors being closed, and things along those 191 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:26,759 lines. So it was all building up to be quite a big case. 192 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:30,880 And then something happened which I think really mudded the waters and I think has 193 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:36,480 caused a lot of controversy ever since. And that was the emergence of a 194 00:17:36,559 --> 00:17:41,759 voice, actual speaking voice that was heard initially just in the room. Moisturets 195 00:17:41,839 --> 00:17:45,079 himself said, could hear it in the room? Is where it's coming from? 196 00:17:45,359 --> 00:17:49,480 Then it came quite early, Yeah, it was coming Frost. It 197 00:17:49,519 --> 00:17:53,160 was coming from Janet's eleven year old girl, who seemed to have been the 198 00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:57,720 center of the activity. She seemed to have been the focus of much of 199 00:17:57,759 --> 00:18:02,920 what was going on, more than her older sister Margaret or her brother Billy. 200 00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:06,799 There was a fourth child, John, who wasn't there the whole time. 201 00:18:06,839 --> 00:18:08,240 He as far as I understand, it was a bit of troubled and 202 00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:11,920 then spent some time away from the home. Now I don't won't by going 203 00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:14,319 to do it as all of that, But so he wasn't around for a 204 00:18:14,319 --> 00:18:18,640 lot of what happened, but certainly Janet was a focus almost from the beginning. 205 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:21,160 In fact, she was the first person to hear the noises in the 206 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:23,920 walls. But then they say, it's a rather strange turn of this voice 207 00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:27,559 started to appear. First of all, they heard what seemed no more than 208 00:18:27,559 --> 00:18:32,519 like a dog barking or growling sound that seemed to come from her general vicinity. 209 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:37,079 And then it actually began to speak, and Morris Grotes recorded the voice, 210 00:18:37,079 --> 00:18:40,640 and you can actually hear online the first time it starts to say words. 211 00:18:40,839 --> 00:18:44,279 That goes from kind of a croaking noise to saying, Morris, it's 212 00:18:44,279 --> 00:18:48,960 gross. Now the voice gets more distinct as it goes on, and it 213 00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:53,839 does sound very much like the voice of an old man sort off. Now 214 00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:57,920 I say sort of because if you listen to it dispassionately completely, it does 215 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:02,680 sound like a young person putting on the voice of an older man, because 216 00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:04,880 sometimes the inflection is not right. It gets a bit too high pitched. 217 00:19:06,279 --> 00:19:10,000 Now you could argue it's because it's Janet's vocal cords being used by this spirit, 218 00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:15,160 but it was also kind of making the same sound as the voice of 219 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:19,160 a go of this particular man who identified himself as Bill Bill Wilkins, who 220 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:23,599 apparently and lived and died in the house. According to Bill Now, at 221 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:27,079 the time of the investigation, there was no corroborating evidence at all about Bill 222 00:19:27,079 --> 00:19:32,039 would have existed, it was real or anything. But there is information about 223 00:19:32,119 --> 00:19:34,680 him. I'll get to it in a little while. But that's what made 224 00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:38,599 the case again become even more famous because this strange voice that seemed to be 225 00:19:38,599 --> 00:19:44,200 coming from eleven year old girl, and how could she possibly produce this voice? 226 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:48,440 And when you hear it, you think that that would probably hurt after 227 00:19:48,759 --> 00:19:52,599 not a long time talking in that voice? Absolutely? Yeah, I mean 228 00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:57,000 they contended that it wasn't physically possible for a girl's vocal cores to produce that 229 00:19:57,119 --> 00:20:00,519 kind of sound. Now, again, I don't know, not an expert 230 00:20:00,599 --> 00:20:06,359 on vocal cords. Well, this is a slightly confusing. They did do 231 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:11,599 a test experiment where they taped over Janet's mouth and the voice did carry on 232 00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:15,160 talking, which is pretty impressive if it's just been faked by her. But 233 00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:18,519 when they tried it with water in her mouth and tape, she couldn't do 234 00:20:18,559 --> 00:20:22,440 it. There was no voice, so it definitely leans to the idea it 235 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:29,519 really was coming from her, But what actually was the cause is a debate. 236 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:32,799 Now. The interesting is, of course, if there is this ghostly 237 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:36,720 activity of Bill and he is the cause of this movie, it does move 238 00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:40,640 out of the realm of pure poltic list and becomes in your more classic haunting 239 00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:45,640 case because you've got an actual ghostly presence. But whether that voice was genuinely 240 00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:49,519 real, as in it was the disembodied voice of a ghost speaking through Janet 241 00:20:49,519 --> 00:20:52,960 in some kind of trance medium ship, or Janet was simply making it up 242 00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:57,720 as part of the events we say, It's hard to say, but for 243 00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:02,039 me it's always moighty the case. I think this is a good proper poltergeist 244 00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:07,839 case, and the voice was just I think them either deliberately pranking, or 245 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:11,599 what I think is more likely is that she was actually having some kind of 246 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:18,119 dissociated personality disorder that was manifest in this voice. That she wasn't deliberately pretending 247 00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:21,359 to be this other person. It's like a second personality that was coming through 248 00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:26,960 the reason why I tend to lean in that direction is because you can also 249 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:32,559 say that Poltergeie activity is often seen to focus around adolescent children, particularly girls. 250 00:21:32,599 --> 00:21:37,960 Often best air timeframe that there could be some kind of psychic energy that's 251 00:21:37,039 --> 00:21:41,759 manifesting through them and causing things to happen. There's a fairly high correlation between 252 00:21:41,759 --> 00:21:48,480 teenage children being present at a property and potagalithe activity extended postul activity. I 253 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:52,039 mean not just the occasional thing moving, but things being thrown around, things 254 00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:56,200 disappearing. I mean, they had the classic bent spoons long before you together 255 00:21:56,279 --> 00:21:57,400 was doing this stuff. They had bent spoons in the house as well, 256 00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:03,599 so they're all kind of towards that idea. But so the investigator the case 257 00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:08,240 for around about a year before someone that guy lyon Playfake knew was a spiritualist 258 00:22:08,279 --> 00:22:14,160 came along, had a long conversation with the girls and said afterwards, I've 259 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:17,599 cleared this house of this energy, this whatever you want to call it, 260 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:23,400 and apparently it did dramatically diminish the numbage events. It calmed right down to 261 00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:27,480 the point that they stopped investigating because it was real it was happening. I've 262 00:22:27,519 --> 00:22:30,839 actually spoken to Guila and played for myself as an interview with him for an 263 00:22:30,839 --> 00:22:34,720 old station I was on before, which you've got. Part of that interview 264 00:22:34,839 --> 00:22:38,799 is actually on our network now. I uploaded it over Halloween as the ATPF 265 00:22:38,839 --> 00:22:41,759 Show, so you can hear that. But we did the second one with 266 00:22:41,839 --> 00:22:44,920 him, which we didn't say unfortunately, where we talked a bit more about 267 00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:48,240 the causes behind the case and what was going on, and he wouldn't get 268 00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:49,880 a lot of detail about who this person was, but they were a spiritualist 269 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:56,319 who helped clear the property and made a difference. So again that leads it 270 00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:59,680 back towards the idea of being an actual ghost presence. So I don't know, 271 00:22:59,799 --> 00:23:07,079 but yes, like you say in a podcast activity, you don't usually 272 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:12,920 have a ghost with it exactly. This is it. They have been just 273 00:23:14,039 --> 00:23:18,559 linking the fact that the story of Bill dining in his arm chair as an 274 00:23:18,599 --> 00:23:22,640 excuse for this activity. Well, the funny thing was, but the interesting 275 00:23:22,759 --> 00:23:26,200 was there was no way of knowing who this Bill Wilkins was. There was 276 00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:32,160 no evidence, there's no records or anything that I was just getting. There's 277 00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:37,799 still have found that some years after the case had really come to an end, 278 00:23:37,279 --> 00:23:41,839 someone contacted Maurice S. Grouts and it was indeed the son of Bill 279 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:45,680 Wilkins, who has proven Bilkins was able to prove Wilkins had lived in that 280 00:23:45,759 --> 00:23:51,039 house, and he had, as described by Janet, died in a particular 281 00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:53,000 chair in the room, having from a brain hemorrhage, having gone blind. 282 00:23:53,799 --> 00:23:57,400 Now, how she could possibly this is what gets really strange is how could 283 00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:02,880 she possibly known those details? She could have accessed His death certificate wasn't available, 284 00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:08,400 There was no computers as such about he went to the public records office. 285 00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:11,519 She's an eleven year old girl. They're not going to let it go 286 00:24:11,559 --> 00:24:12,680 and wander for the records. No, how the hell's youre going to find 287 00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:18,119 this person? That's what makes it strange. Start to start looking. Haven't 288 00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:23,720 you you know nothing nothing about who lived there before? That's exactly the point, 289 00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:30,480 you know, How did you go and simply find that information? Had 290 00:24:30,519 --> 00:24:33,960 she gained the other words, other than by quote psychic means well, it 291 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:37,000 was a council, ass wasn't it. Yes, he did so, he 292 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:42,079 was on the council register. Had a council Okay, it could be. 293 00:24:42,319 --> 00:24:47,480 It could be that when a mother moved in, someone from the council told 294 00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:52,599 her the story of Bill, and Janet's over heard her talking to someone else 295 00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:56,000 about it. It could be that way, but that's the only way I 296 00:24:56,039 --> 00:25:00,200 can see that she would find out exactly. I'm not exactly sure she was, 297 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:02,799 but she would be very very young. They've been there for a numbers 298 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:06,440 with her husband before the husband did the moon not flipping pack moved to woman 299 00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:10,720 down the road. But it is It's one of those strange and normalist things. 300 00:25:10,759 --> 00:25:12,759 I am still of the mind that it probably was just Janet faking the 301 00:25:12,839 --> 00:25:18,079 voice, not necessarily deliberately, but more to do with a mental mind state 302 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:22,440 than anything else. But this is weird little details that makes it hard to 303 00:25:22,519 --> 00:25:26,119 understand. How did she know that information? How does she get that so 304 00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:27,680 correct? I mean, some of the other things she said were strange. 305 00:25:27,759 --> 00:25:32,839 I mean, I've been trying to locate more and more of the Morris Stress's 306 00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:38,240 recordings, because there's about two hundred hours of recordings he's made of what's happening, 307 00:25:38,519 --> 00:25:42,039 and including all the Bill stuff that he recorded. I've been trying to 308 00:25:42,039 --> 00:25:45,680 find those more information about what actually is supposed to be said by Bill. 309 00:25:45,759 --> 00:25:51,480 But for a man that supposedly in his seventies, he was rather fascinated of 310 00:25:51,759 --> 00:25:57,359 menstruation the young girls, which of course she Janet would have been because he 311 00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:00,440 was going through it so that you know, it's like it's a bit strange 312 00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:07,759 getting their own questions and answered him exactly. Yeah, it doesn't mean towards 313 00:26:07,759 --> 00:26:11,160 the idea that she did fake it, but again it's that you have to 314 00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:18,880 prove, and that doesn't answer all the things that we're moving about at all. 315 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:26,640 Morris as well, it's that's exactly. It's separating this voice Bill character 316 00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:30,960 from the panel the potus activity. That's the thing I think is important. 317 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:34,519 That's why I find the whole Bill stuff mildly irritating because it kind of sidetracks 318 00:26:34,599 --> 00:26:37,599 us down the road. Well, if I mean the fact that is the 319 00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:41,039 girls did fake some of the stuff, you know, even and played for 320 00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:45,480 an interview, they did. Yeah, I mean there were kids, there 321 00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:48,599 were teenagers getting into teenage years who were fooling around knocking them out. But 322 00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:52,960 because they did, that doesn't so you have to throw everything else, because 323 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:55,839 there's stuff that people witness first hand, directly in front of them, that 324 00:26:55,880 --> 00:27:03,400 was happening with possibly a fake I really believe, right, but thanks were 325 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:07,079 moving around. Things was happening in that house. It was politicalists activity. 326 00:27:07,599 --> 00:27:11,480 But the girls being the girls wanted the attention, Oh absolutely, and that's 327 00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:15,799 where the faking came in, to get the attention, to make them feel 328 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:21,640 important, become the limelight of everything. I completely agree. I think that 329 00:27:21,759 --> 00:27:25,000 was almost a part of it. It's like it needed to approve it. 330 00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:29,640 I mean, it's an ourcolastic story about a woman called Helene Bolovatski who run 331 00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:33,400 the Theosopical Society, created a theosophical society and now she was uposically psychic media 332 00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:36,880 and all that. And later in life when people would come and see her, 333 00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:40,400 she said sometimes that basically she did fake stuff because it was expected of 334 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:42,240 her to produce something, and when nothing was happening, she made us something 335 00:27:42,319 --> 00:27:45,720 did but she's other stuff was genuine. So it's like, you know, 336 00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:49,799 you're almost wish people wouldn't do that, but when you did eleven and thirteen 337 00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:52,720 year old girl and an eight year old boy. Yeah, of course they're 338 00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:56,480 going to muck about a bit in place. And as guy Lan said himself, 339 00:27:56,519 --> 00:28:00,599 you can't tell these kids to not do that there home, you know 340 00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:02,880 they lived there. They're going to muck about you, except they're going to 341 00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:04,720 muck out a bit. You have to deal with that. But as He 342 00:28:04,839 --> 00:28:11,759 repeatedly said, you doesn't discount the genuine events that they witnessed in the building, 343 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:15,759 that was happening for real. Yeah, I'll take a breath now, 344 00:28:18,279 --> 00:28:22,279 and then of course we are dead Warren. Yes, it's going to get 345 00:28:22,279 --> 00:28:29,200 onto. Yeah, don't get me started with those two. Well, the 346 00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:33,000 film, The Conjuring Two is an absolute joke. Now, I love it 347 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:37,920 as a horror fil it's brilliant, but it has no eminent to what really 348 00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:45,839 happened. If we've gone over there and claimed horror as over here, right, 349 00:28:45,519 --> 00:28:48,960 yes, the shipe would hit the fan, wouldn't it. Totally? 350 00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:56,640 But they were there for about a day. They invited themselves pretty much. 351 00:28:57,079 --> 00:29:00,880 Ed was actually recorded talking about that they could make money out of this, 352 00:29:00,119 --> 00:29:03,319 and then they were asked to leave after the interviewed the girls for a while 353 00:29:03,319 --> 00:29:08,559 and go away. The whole stuff in the movie, if you've seen about 354 00:29:08,559 --> 00:29:15,440 this demonic creature that's following Lorraine Warren round that it manifests in the house as 355 00:29:15,599 --> 00:29:18,640 Valet, it's just absolute nonsense. I mean, the whole valid thing itself 356 00:29:18,759 --> 00:29:22,880 nonsense. Your at no point in the I mean Valik is a valid is 357 00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:27,880 a valid Shall we say there's a genuine demon that's listed to each another text. 358 00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:32,119 But at no point is every described looking like a giant nun. It's 359 00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:36,519 just nonsense, you know, made up of the film. But it's staggering 360 00:29:36,559 --> 00:29:40,720 the number of people actually think it's an accurate portrayal of events. It really 361 00:29:40,759 --> 00:29:45,799 is. Yeah, they do believe it. I had a conversation on good 362 00:29:45,799 --> 00:29:52,559 old Facebook some time ago, but someone's radio I reserve judgment. I'm not 363 00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:56,440 entirely sure, but basically I said, she was going to how accurate genuine 364 00:29:56,440 --> 00:30:00,279 portrait was, how the lives were at risk, and I said, no, 365 00:30:00,359 --> 00:30:03,839 it's not. It's a bit nonsense. They've even left out on the 366 00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:07,319 main investigators. I was there. I've spoken to do directly. And then 367 00:30:07,359 --> 00:30:15,440 she said, well, how do you know he wasn't making up back in 368 00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:17,880 the seventies when I was, like I said, when I was working for 369 00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:22,640 this organization, I got a fellow friend of mine who worked for the organization 370 00:30:22,759 --> 00:30:27,880 to run me over there Ah to Enfield because I was so engrossed in it, 371 00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:37,160 because you know these newspaper reports that were coming out. You just got 372 00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:41,559 to magic today with the headline newspaper headings front page about ghosts and the paranol. 373 00:30:41,599 --> 00:30:47,519 We just can't imagine it now, Yeah, althought, although I've lived 374 00:30:47,519 --> 00:30:49,680 with it all my life and I know what goes on. But the point 375 00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:55,680 is this, I don't know. I just got cold up in all the 376 00:30:55,759 --> 00:31:03,880 excitement and emotions in the building I was working. Interestingly enough, the family 377 00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:07,240 Hodgson family eventually did move out of the house, and the next people who 378 00:31:07,279 --> 00:31:11,680 rented it to stay for three months and left. They said there was an 379 00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:15,160 atmosphere. They didn't actually know about the case. That's one of the funny 380 00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:18,759 things. You'd imagine. Everyone must know about this case everywhere. Yeah, 381 00:31:18,759 --> 00:31:21,359 but if you didn't read the newspapers on into the newspapers, you wouldn't know. 382 00:31:21,359 --> 00:31:22,759 It wasn't on TV very much, wasn't in the news news. It 383 00:31:22,839 --> 00:31:26,759 was on the newspapers, but you didn't have to read that paper and you 384 00:31:26,759 --> 00:31:30,440 wouldn't know about it. And they didn't know about it. They said they 385 00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:33,200 never saw anything happened in the house, but there was an uncomftable atmosphere. 386 00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:37,319 They did ask that they could be moved about three months after moving in. 387 00:31:37,039 --> 00:31:41,279 They've part of the fame that there now have been there a long time. 388 00:31:41,359 --> 00:31:44,759 They don't wish to comment basically, though, I think they get a bit 389 00:31:44,759 --> 00:31:47,319 anoyed about the number of people recently been to their door. There was a 390 00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:52,160 YouTube video which someone put up a little while ago who'd gone to the house, 391 00:31:52,319 --> 00:31:53,559 was filming outside and the owner of the house came out and asked them 392 00:31:53,559 --> 00:31:56,759 to move, which I'm not surprised really because it's a bit rude. But 393 00:31:59,599 --> 00:32:05,400 it's still standing on. Yeah, it is completely still it's it's just an 394 00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:08,000 ordinary house and there's nothing special about it. There's also no big tree in 395 00:32:08,039 --> 00:32:10,480 the front garden as well, which is a major feature of the movie. 396 00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:20,359 There was no freaking cellar either. The house. The house is the tardiest 397 00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:22,359 from doctor Who. I mean, it's so big on the inside, beds 398 00:32:22,519 --> 00:32:27,920 outside outside, Yeah, exactly, it's ridiculous. When they actually commented, 399 00:32:29,599 --> 00:32:35,359 yeah, I know, this is what makes it laughable. Seller at all. 400 00:32:36,559 --> 00:32:44,279 Of course, there's no selles on that street here. Mark built without 401 00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:51,720 sellers. It's not you don't get them in this country. Unfortunately. This 402 00:32:51,880 --> 00:33:00,759 is an old house that's exactly found it. The also quite the reverse of 403 00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:04,279 the comment on how small the house was in so it was quite cramped. 404 00:33:04,319 --> 00:33:09,559 You know, this massive mansion of the exactly yeah, I mean, they 405 00:33:09,599 --> 00:33:13,839 made this big deal about this one chair, crotted chair in the corners of 406 00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:15,960 the chair, Bill Wilkins died, the only one that was left in the 407 00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:19,000 house, all the venture left in the house. You know, they didn't 408 00:33:19,039 --> 00:33:22,359 take the furniture. The whole furniture has been there for years. It wasn't 409 00:33:22,359 --> 00:33:25,720 anthing especially about that one chair. You got this like almost destitutely poor family, 410 00:33:25,759 --> 00:33:29,400 but they happened to have. And if you remember the movie I Remote 411 00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:32,960 Control and rero controlled TV that would cost the earth in the seventies, isn't 412 00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:37,960 that where they're going to afford that my control TV? Silly little details, 413 00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:42,559 I know, but he's rather irritating. But yeah, I mean it's a 414 00:33:42,559 --> 00:33:46,119 great movie. But the tree that there wasn't enough funk garden to even grow 415 00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:49,359 the roots of a tree, let alone the tree exactly. It was a 416 00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:52,720 tiny little patch front at the front, but they couldn't. But it's world 417 00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:57,880 away from what really happened there. What you basically had over that period of 418 00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:02,839 almost about a year was many things being moved around, objects being dragged about. 419 00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:09,079 You could witness in multiple witnesses sorry, things like objects moving see from 420 00:34:09,079 --> 00:34:13,719 the outside and more than one occasion, and Janet was actually seen the levitating 421 00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:16,719 or seemed to be floating across the room. Witnesses from the street saw it 422 00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:22,920 jump off a bed like that. You can catch them in there with the 423 00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:27,440 camera and they're floating as well. But you see they didn't see people didn't 424 00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:30,719 see her jumping. The particular one I'm referring to the lollipop ladies said that 425 00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:35,360 she was literally lifting, floating up and down, not jumping up down, 426 00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:38,119 floating where she's up in the air. If you see her legs are topped 427 00:34:38,199 --> 00:34:43,480 up underneath, she's jumping. Going to get to the photographs. It's interesting 428 00:34:43,519 --> 00:34:46,159 because again it's the more detailed to those it does look for all, we 429 00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:50,159 like she's jumping. I must have. I've often thought that. But interesting. 430 00:34:50,199 --> 00:34:53,480 The camera man who the photographed it, he'd a rig set up that 431 00:34:53,599 --> 00:34:57,679 was on a wire. As soon as you heard any noise, he clicked 432 00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:00,920 it and he said, the interesting one. There's a frame of her lying 433 00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:05,519 in the bed and it's something like one sixth of the second later she's in 434 00:35:05,559 --> 00:35:09,239 the air. Now she moved really really quickly. This is what you're saying, 435 00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:13,119 And he's not saying she wasn't a jump or anything, but it said 436 00:35:13,159 --> 00:35:16,320 the speed of which she moved was quite ridiculous. It was incredibly fast, 437 00:35:16,559 --> 00:35:21,440 and she got from one position to mid air in less than a second. 438 00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:23,599 It's like, literally, the hell did you go far that fast? Now, 439 00:35:23,599 --> 00:35:25,920 again, I'm not saying she didn't just jump in the air. She 440 00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:30,239 was did gymnastics, so of course she has some skills there, which does 441 00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:34,480 kind of leaning towards that being faked. But he said it was it was 442 00:35:34,519 --> 00:35:36,880 the speed of which she moved. And there's another case when she's seen the 443 00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:39,000 fly across the room and land on top of the radio, big gramophone type 444 00:35:39,079 --> 00:35:45,280 radio, not a little tiny thing. But again they she's in a very 445 00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:49,280 awkward position up there. Yeah, if you've seen the photograph, yes, 446 00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:53,599 she's almost laying. Yeah, how was she balancing on that exactly when the 447 00:35:53,599 --> 00:35:57,440 investigator is looking at the investigator's faces? How the hell did she get up 448 00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:01,519 there looking? Yeah, Now, again, she could be extremely dexterous with 449 00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:07,480 gymnastics and jumped up there. But it's one of those things because there's those 450 00:36:07,679 --> 00:36:12,239 extra additional things, shall we say, that kind of really muded the water 451 00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:14,639 with the whole case, And you know, I kind of wish it hadn't 452 00:36:14,679 --> 00:36:19,559 happened, because I think the key is the actual panel podul ad activity, 453 00:36:19,599 --> 00:36:22,559 the things being thrown and moved around, of which there are so many many 454 00:36:22,599 --> 00:36:27,519 occasions. I mean, I think the witness list is something like over thirty 455 00:36:27,559 --> 00:36:31,239 people in that time saw something that they couldn't explain in terms of movement of 456 00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:35,400 objects and things, not just like one or two people. Over thirty. 457 00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:42,000 That's a fascinating case. It is a fascinating case. Now are you learning 458 00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:45,840 about this mark? Now? I am. Now, I'm gonna have to 459 00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:50,039 look up. I'd like to see those photos. Yeah, they're all online. 460 00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:52,079 Well, if I can direct you to a new website. I've recently 461 00:36:52,079 --> 00:36:58,280 started a YouTube channel. One of the things I've I get back to why 462 00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:01,440 I'm doing this at the moment, but I collect see as many examples of 463 00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:08,199 first hand, actual interviews with people directly involved, and audio and photographic recordings 464 00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:10,840 that have been made, trying to bring all together onto one way on YouTube 465 00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:15,480 channel, because there are hundreds of them spread around, lots of little snippets, 466 00:37:15,519 --> 00:37:17,880 bits and pieces that the ones that have brought them all together to one 467 00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:22,199 place. The reason I'm doing that is one because I'm fascinated by the case, 468 00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:28,679 of course, but two recently, Apple plus TV have made a four 469 00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:32,480 part series based on the Infield Haunting, as they're calling it, and what 470 00:37:32,519 --> 00:37:37,960 they've done is very, very clever. They've got actors playing the parts of 471 00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:42,559 the people involved in the case, but the voices you hear are the actual 472 00:37:42,599 --> 00:37:45,960 recordings, so you've got actors lip syncing what was actually recorded at the time, 473 00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:50,239 and it is very good. It does open a few areas that I 474 00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:52,679 didn't even know about, but apparently there's over two hundred hours, as say, 475 00:37:52,679 --> 00:37:57,360 of Morris Grass's recordings they've used. I mean that prole progress in about 476 00:37:57,360 --> 00:37:59,719 four hours long. And it's not all just the recording, so we need 477 00:37:59,880 --> 00:38:01,880 to only fraction of what was actually recording. And I'd love to hear more 478 00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:05,800 of what's been recorded. But to say it's thought, it'd be nice to 479 00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:10,920 bring it all together. It's on YouTube of call it the Enfant. Yeah, 480 00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:15,440 I'm going to say bringing it all together, you know, that helps 481 00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:17,360 people to find as much as they can in one place with that and hunt 482 00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:22,960 everywhere. If they look on YouTube, look for the Enfield Hauntings. The 483 00:38:23,039 --> 00:38:28,679 evidence as I'm calling it, basically a route one description, but that's what 484 00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:30,280 the channel's actually called. But they got a few bits on the now, 485 00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:35,639 but doing almost daily at the moment. Another one i'd like to see you 486 00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:42,320 do rectory. Oh yes, yes, of course. Unfortunately it's all gone 487 00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:45,519 now, but I do know Chap who's legitimately gained it, legally a piece 488 00:38:45,679 --> 00:38:51,199 of the in the grounds of ball Erectro. There's like a stone in one 489 00:38:51,199 --> 00:38:55,280 corner that marks the garden the area. It's like things on his garden legitimately 490 00:38:55,679 --> 00:39:04,119 acquired came fire Peter Underhill, my friend Eddie b Eddie Brazil, Eddie Brazil 491 00:39:04,199 --> 00:39:08,360 and the other guy's name basically inherited Underhill's collection when he passed away, including 492 00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:14,360 bits of bad directory itself and a cop ha was on that one, wasn't 493 00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:16,440 he. Oh yeah, yeah, most famous for that one. Yeah. 494 00:39:16,559 --> 00:39:22,920 He's buried down in Paulborough, near where I was born, five miles from 495 00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:27,679 the village I was born in Sussex. I was going to say, also, 496 00:39:28,079 --> 00:39:31,800 Walley Churchyard is meant to be haunted. Indeed, it is to the 497 00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:36,800 point now that it's got spotlights on it that will activate if you walk into 498 00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:39,400 the grounds at night. They got so fed up with it there. But 499 00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:44,079 again I know someone who spent the evening before the lights are set up in 500 00:39:44,119 --> 00:39:46,719 the grounds of the church, and they had all sorts of strange noises inside 501 00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:51,719 the church. So there were very definitely sounds banging, crashing around inside the 502 00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:58,519 locked up church, very definitely. Also there was tourists have been taken there 503 00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:02,159 and the one occasion and a group of American tourists them a coach and had 504 00:40:02,199 --> 00:40:07,480 no idea the rectory didn't exist anymore walking around that where's Baldy Rectory? Were 505 00:40:07,519 --> 00:40:12,679 you here? You're hid it? You know it's our housing estate under false 506 00:40:12,679 --> 00:40:15,480 pretenties, shall we say that they've been falled into believing that it was still 507 00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:19,239 there and it's not there at all. The directory was very close to the 508 00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:22,119 church, wasn't it originally across the road if you like, a bit further 509 00:40:22,159 --> 00:40:25,400 off, Yeah, quite close. Do you think it could be anything to 510 00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:29,960 do with the actual land around there, because you're getting all this in the 511 00:40:30,039 --> 00:40:34,719 church, the church, the rectory, Well, it's one of the other 512 00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:38,360 things. What they really say it was. It's always one of the ghost 513 00:40:38,519 --> 00:40:44,039 theories if you like, is that what happens is the area itself own localized 514 00:40:44,119 --> 00:40:49,400 em atro mentic field records events, and those events replay themselves under the right 515 00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:53,559 circumstances like brain interaction. Being electro chemical brains, of course, they interact 516 00:40:53,559 --> 00:40:59,559 with the em field and it triggers off responses events. So what you can 517 00:40:59,599 --> 00:41:04,000 see is it was adual haunting. For like the GHOSTI figures being seen, 518 00:41:04,079 --> 00:41:08,519 is that kind of replaying a past events. So that's that's exactly what I 519 00:41:08,519 --> 00:41:12,280 had in this house. The other day, I came out of the utility 520 00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:15,239 room, which is part of the old kitchen, which is the original old 521 00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:22,199 kitchen to the house. I came out of there and as just after came 522 00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:24,199 out and there's a little area which i'd call a bootroom w which chuck out 523 00:41:24,199 --> 00:41:29,679 weady boots and everything. I just got to there and I heard humming behind 524 00:41:29,679 --> 00:41:32,519 me in the room. Ah. Interesting, And I stopped and I listened 525 00:41:34,199 --> 00:41:37,760 and I heard it again, just humming. I heard three times it hum 526 00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:42,400 You know, there was this humming coming from their room behind me, and 527 00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:47,559 I was about a foot foot and a half from the door. That's residual 528 00:41:47,639 --> 00:41:52,039 energy, obviously, you know. To fit that description, I mean that 529 00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:54,559 my old place having long after anything to happen in this house my old place, 530 00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:59,079 just bite being in one house of the nineties, there were definitely things 531 00:41:59,119 --> 00:42:02,320 going on there along the lines of politicass activity. Objects are definitely being moved, 532 00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:07,119 do you mean move from one room into another different part of the room 533 00:42:07,159 --> 00:42:08,760 that just couldn't have been It was just myself and my wife. We didn't 534 00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:14,159 move things. I mean one occasion, one thing went from being beside the 535 00:42:14,199 --> 00:42:19,039 sink basically in the kitchen to on top of a cabinet with next to the 536 00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:24,400 flower father arses that were like, well, there's just no way it could 537 00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:28,480 have been thrown or it had to be placed there by something and somebody. 538 00:42:28,519 --> 00:42:30,480 It couldn't have moved any other way, we know, for neither of us 539 00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:34,800 put it out there. Yeah. Well, Mark and I were talking on 540 00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:39,079 the show last week about so a little bit about podcasts activit day because we 541 00:42:39,079 --> 00:42:45,599 were prepping for this show coming up. Mark's talking about how he gets money, 542 00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:59,159 I get stones. But they today definitely have podcast activities today. Really, 543 00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:04,199 well, about two hours ago, I have stopped vaping, right, 544 00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:07,320 so I've gone around the house and I've clicked it anything to do with vapes, 545 00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:12,760 and I've put them into a big carrier bag and Brian's going to take 546 00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:15,920 them, have them disposed of properly. Good. And I had this tiny 547 00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:21,599 little vape. It wasn't very good and it didn't work very well, and 548 00:43:21,679 --> 00:43:24,039 it was only the size of it was about three inches long. It was 549 00:43:24,039 --> 00:43:30,199 a little pocket thing. And I know that was in that bag, in 550 00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:34,440 that carrier bag, because I saw it when I put it in there. 551 00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:39,320 Now this from all this carrier bag was put away with all these vapes or 552 00:43:39,679 --> 00:43:44,960 over a week ago. Okay, Brian knows where they are. I don't 553 00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:49,159 know where they are. I'm sitting in the office on the couch watching the 554 00:43:49,199 --> 00:43:52,360 television. This afternoon, I got up, I went out to make a 555 00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:55,920 cup of tea. They came back. I sat down. I heard something 556 00:43:55,960 --> 00:44:00,679 fall to the floor and it was this little black vape. Where the bloody 557 00:44:00,679 --> 00:44:04,719 hell. You know how the hell it got out of that bag? I 558 00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:10,800 don't know the m These are the little mysteries that go on almost day to 559 00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:15,079 day that it's not going to get me smoking again. I tell you I'm 560 00:44:15,079 --> 00:44:20,639 not puffing away at any more vapes tangerine at the moment. That's good. 561 00:44:20,639 --> 00:44:24,920 That's much better. I'd be honest you. I think political life type activity 562 00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:29,639 is actually fairly common, but we tend to dismiss it, being like, 563 00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:32,800 oh, just one of those things. But the idea that cygh energy we 564 00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:37,400 want to call it, that emanates from us. It's very real. I 565 00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:39,280 mean I probably told the story before, and now what I mention it now? 566 00:44:39,639 --> 00:44:44,159 I'm I'm psychotherapist. I was I must have kind of seemi retired now 567 00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:47,960 of something hublisher company. But obviously I work with clients in my office and 568 00:44:49,159 --> 00:44:52,360 people get emotional, get upset. It's perfectly normally working with therapy. I 569 00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:57,440 had one guy in particular, every single time he got upset, my ceiling 570 00:44:57,480 --> 00:45:01,199 cracked every time. Now, my ceiling had there's no loft hat. It's 571 00:45:01,239 --> 00:45:04,880 a small basically was a coveted garage at the front of the house. But 572 00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:07,920 it's got a little like a triangular roof to it. There's no way up 573 00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:10,320 there. But it would crack. Not just once or twice, but every 574 00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:13,400 time he got upset. Now he got upset quite often. It was the 575 00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:15,960 therapy it would see would crack. It's like, where the hell's that coming 576 00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:20,000 from. It was just very strange. What even he started to notice, 577 00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:22,320 even though he was getting the motion upset. A boy stuff. He's noticed. 578 00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:25,280 What's that noise? I said, I don't know. It seems to 579 00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:29,199 happen when you're upset. It's a good thing. Means you're getting emotions. 580 00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:30,400 Ut me. He's thinking, yeah, it's a weird thing actually, But 581 00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:35,039 yeah, so that was quite strange. So you know the idea of his 582 00:45:35,519 --> 00:45:38,920 releasing sigh energy if you're like that can cause things to happen, to be 583 00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:44,079 able to move around and crash about. I don't have a big issue with 584 00:45:44,119 --> 00:45:46,920 that being the explanation of things like the NPO poty gist that it wasn't this 585 00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:50,880 dis ebodled the spirit of a man who lived and died in the house that 586 00:45:51,039 --> 00:45:53,639 was superfluous. Actually was still stuck with the idea where they held did Jennet 587 00:45:53,639 --> 00:45:57,800 get the information from in the first place? But I don't think it's more 588 00:45:57,880 --> 00:46:01,480 likely to have been they were playing a part of that and the actual pan 589 00:46:01,559 --> 00:46:07,079 almost off was the polders. The movement that's crashing and banging, things moving 590 00:46:07,079 --> 00:46:09,039 around, flying around the room. Things not so people, but things going 591 00:46:09,079 --> 00:46:15,920 around the room. Certainly, No, that's strange, isn't it. You 592 00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:21,719 know I've had pots activity here. Oh since we moved in it doesn't happen 593 00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:24,639 a lot, but when it does happen, it happens big time. Yeah. 594 00:46:24,639 --> 00:46:31,079 It was the time I wrote in my book, I think about Della, 595 00:46:31,239 --> 00:46:34,800 my daughter in law, going to the shop, coming back with a 596 00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:38,519 load of loose change, saying, here's the you know, here's a change, 597 00:46:38,519 --> 00:46:43,280 as a chuck it on top of the fridge. So she just threw 598 00:46:43,280 --> 00:46:45,599 it on the fridge. It just went everywhere, all over the top of 599 00:46:45,639 --> 00:46:49,159 the fridge, and we left it there. Got up the following morning and 600 00:46:49,239 --> 00:46:52,320 it was all piled up, the biggest coins at the bottom, all the 601 00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:57,599 queen's heads facing upwards, bigguse coins at the bottom, then the next scise 602 00:46:58,079 --> 00:47:01,280 point, and so it takes it to the top. And it was so 603 00:47:01,559 --> 00:47:07,719 perfectly done that each coin was centurized on the coin below it. And I 604 00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:13,039 couldn't do it. I couldn't get it perfect. Another time, had a 605 00:47:13,039 --> 00:47:15,800 friend come to stay, and it was in the bedroom where Mark stays when 606 00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:21,760 he comes here. I had some books on the window sill, some wide 607 00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:25,119 window sill. There were some books on the window sill and they were all 608 00:47:25,239 --> 00:47:31,360 stacked up. When people do that pyramid with playing cards, it was like 609 00:47:31,480 --> 00:47:37,639 that. She walked into the room. It was that this pyramid and boots. 610 00:47:37,719 --> 00:47:43,360 Yeah, that's pretty impressive. And how they were staying, you know, 611 00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:47,960 how they stayed there without moving, I don't know. It's pretty impressive. 612 00:47:49,079 --> 00:47:52,880 Because she walked across the floors, floorboards, You think it was just 613 00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:58,960 shook and vibration would have brought them down. And when she called me up, 614 00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:01,679 and when I touched the just top led and I only touched lightly. 615 00:48:04,679 --> 00:48:08,920 It was really funny. A few times I've been on parallel investigations, we've 616 00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:16,480 had things, objects thrown at us. One that stands one that really stands 617 00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:21,079 out from us actually was a It was basically an old church. It was 618 00:48:21,079 --> 00:48:22,960 a modern Victorian billy. It wasn't like an ancient church, but it was 619 00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:28,880 completely closed down. It was falling into disuse. And the property itself has 620 00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:34,239 now been rented by a spiritualist group who Christian spirituist types, and they'd had 621 00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:37,400 lots of noises and bangs and crashes going on. They contacted the group I 622 00:48:38,039 --> 00:48:40,760 used to lead. It was a friend of a friend of a friend time 623 00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:45,760 of connection and there was a very sort of family connection to it. And 624 00:48:45,800 --> 00:48:49,880 the six of us went with three members of the of the Spiritualist Church who 625 00:48:49,880 --> 00:48:52,159 rented the place. They were there with us, and one occasion we were 626 00:48:52,199 --> 00:48:57,480 just standing in the corner of the ground floor that's like a big open area 627 00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:00,880 to a conversation, and this stone flew across the room, hit the wall 628 00:49:01,159 --> 00:49:04,760 right beside me, and then fell onto the floor right on my foot. 629 00:49:05,159 --> 00:49:08,320 When I picked the stone up. It was very hot, it really was, 630 00:49:08,840 --> 00:49:12,679 And there was no way. I mean, the windows themselves were completely 631 00:49:12,679 --> 00:49:15,880 boarded up. They were actually metal covers over them, so it wasn't even 632 00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:19,599 like you can just pull a bit of a way to through. No, 633 00:49:19,639 --> 00:49:22,440 it was anyone from outside. There was no one in the group because we 634 00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:24,559 were all nine of us were together having a cup of tea, and yet 635 00:49:24,559 --> 00:49:28,039 this stone flew across the room. I say it was very hot. That's 636 00:49:28,079 --> 00:49:32,920 what I think it really struck as was how warm it was. I've had 637 00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:37,239 stones come when we've all been in the kitchen. I've had stones fall out 638 00:49:37,280 --> 00:49:43,559 of the ceiling in the kitchen ah and they never hit me, They never 639 00:49:43,639 --> 00:49:46,920 hit me. So it felt this particular one this day that everyone was what 640 00:49:47,119 --> 00:49:52,760 saw come out of the ceiling, fell straight down behind me, went down 641 00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:57,400 behind the radiator and fell on the floor underneath the radiator. Wow, my 642 00:49:57,639 --> 00:50:02,159 hallway. When I first moved in, I was always a little pile of 643 00:50:02,159 --> 00:50:08,360 stone somewhere that had been thrown at me. Cleaning the hallway, floor dusting 644 00:50:08,519 --> 00:50:13,559 or something like that. I was always getting stone thrown at me, and 645 00:50:13,639 --> 00:50:20,519 they would come from the office area straight down the hallway to wherever I was. 646 00:50:21,199 --> 00:50:23,400 Some the stone would be heading to hit the front door. But yeah, 647 00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:28,880 no used to come at such a force. But they never hit me 648 00:50:30,760 --> 00:50:32,480 well, for you just bounced off the wall and then flatering on my foots. 649 00:50:32,519 --> 00:50:36,880 It was named at me directly. But there's a couple of times over 650 00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:40,679 the years of investigations we have definitely had objects have been thrown and the uniform 651 00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:45,559 thing that's true of all of them has been there been hot. There's something 652 00:50:45,639 --> 00:50:50,039 to do with a heat effect than being moved that causes them to get warm 653 00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:55,079 when they're thrown around. It's very strange, Mark Mark, when you found 654 00:50:55,119 --> 00:51:00,199 that dollar on the bed, do you think it had been there for a 655 00:51:00,239 --> 00:51:04,440 little while or was that womb when you touched it, Well, it was 656 00:51:04,480 --> 00:51:13,920 a quarter and twenty five cent piece. Just to give some context, I've 657 00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:21,639 told the story before, but the day of my wife's funeral, her cousins, 658 00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:24,280 I invited them to stay the night here since it was such a long 659 00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:28,960 drive home. So I went in to get the guest room made up, 660 00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:36,920 and they're lying in the middle of the bed was this quarter, and I 661 00:51:37,079 --> 00:51:39,760 looked at it. I didn't touch it immediately, but I looked at it 662 00:51:39,840 --> 00:51:45,199 and going, where in the heck did this come from? Because I'd been 663 00:51:45,199 --> 00:51:49,519 in this house a week, the only one here, and there was no 664 00:51:49,639 --> 00:51:53,920 quarter on that bed, so it was perfectly placed almost in the center of 665 00:51:53,960 --> 00:52:00,920 the bed. And when I looked at it, it was tail up and 666 00:52:01,760 --> 00:52:13,760 the tails portion was it was We have a whole commemorative series of quarters that 667 00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:17,440 on the back had each of the fifty states on there. Well, this 668 00:52:17,559 --> 00:52:23,360 state was Colorado, where my family is from, which I took to be 669 00:52:23,519 --> 00:52:27,760 very significant. Now, when I did pick it up, it felt totally 670 00:52:27,800 --> 00:52:32,920 normal to me. So it's possible it happened while I was away that morning 671 00:52:35,039 --> 00:52:38,039 and then I just came home and found it. Yeah, it could have 672 00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:43,639 been there for a while then. Yeah. So, and the ones that 673 00:52:43,920 --> 00:52:50,079 appeared during the investigation we did. We picked them up, and I don't 674 00:52:50,159 --> 00:52:54,599 remember feeling any excess heat on them. Now, one of the things I 675 00:52:54,679 --> 00:53:01,039 was really trying to debunk is if the clients themselves flicking them without us noticing. 676 00:53:02,679 --> 00:53:07,679 And I mean, I can't sit here and say one hundred percent no, 677 00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:13,159 they weren't, because there were several of us in the room, and 678 00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:16,840 in some confusion, maybe they saw an opportunity and flipped it. I don't 679 00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:23,400 know. And at one point I'm walking into the living room and the one 680 00:53:23,440 --> 00:53:28,599 homeowner, she's right behind me, and a quarter flew over her head and 681 00:53:28,719 --> 00:53:32,760 landed right in between us. Can I say? My back was to her, 682 00:53:32,800 --> 00:53:37,239 so I couldn't see where it came from. So you know, there's 683 00:53:37,280 --> 00:53:44,519 still those kernels of doubt in something like that. What a friend of mine 684 00:53:44,519 --> 00:53:46,559 wants to scrub is the tricks, the element that they don't do. None 685 00:53:46,599 --> 00:53:50,480 of these things happen right in front of you, before your eyes. You 686 00:53:50,519 --> 00:53:52,440 can see it. They tend to be almost in the periphery or just to 687 00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:57,800 the edge they are, so you can't be one hundred percent certain. They 688 00:53:57,840 --> 00:54:01,159 definitely know they are of power origin, But it seems to be as if 689 00:54:01,719 --> 00:54:06,920 the whatever causes it doesn't want it to be too obvious. They'd kind of 690 00:54:07,559 --> 00:54:10,039 like to fool you or trick you into these things. Another good example that 691 00:54:10,119 --> 00:54:14,159 I experienced there was a place of Winchester Mansion, which I've been too, 692 00:54:14,159 --> 00:54:19,960 a number of which I've mentioned them Suan before. We Actually it's an amazing 693 00:54:19,960 --> 00:54:22,480 place. I'm having to get this sometime next year. Actually it is now 694 00:54:22,559 --> 00:54:25,000 much closer to it than it used to be, so talk about that. 695 00:54:25,320 --> 00:54:29,400 But we were actually videoing. There was about six of us standing together in 696 00:54:29,400 --> 00:54:31,159 a corridor. I'm at the front hold in the camera facing us, and 697 00:54:31,199 --> 00:54:35,679 you see a stone fly over us and it lands on the ground. And 698 00:54:35,719 --> 00:54:39,280 again it was warm. But you can't be certain that when I mean, 699 00:54:39,320 --> 00:54:42,480 we know that no one behind us. You can't prove it in the video, 700 00:54:42,480 --> 00:54:44,880 of course, it's just black behind us. But you see the stone 701 00:54:45,039 --> 00:54:47,039 come over our shoulders, over our heads, literally in land in front of 702 00:54:47,119 --> 00:54:51,119 us or in front of me beyond the camera. You see it fly over 703 00:54:51,280 --> 00:54:53,079 and you hear it land. But there's we know there was no one at 704 00:54:53,119 --> 00:54:55,480 the other end of the corridor who'd have thrown at but you can't prove it. 705 00:54:55,559 --> 00:54:59,360 You know, if you could see it suddenly appear from the wall and 706 00:54:59,360 --> 00:55:01,639 shoot across and that's brilliant stuff. But you just don't get that sort of 707 00:55:01,679 --> 00:55:06,880 thing. It always just sort of like I said, that did happen in 708 00:55:06,880 --> 00:55:12,679 my kitchen. Yeah, came through the ceiling right in front of everyone. 709 00:55:13,079 --> 00:55:15,840 Again. Back in the old days of the Earth Quest of Any, Collins 710 00:55:15,920 --> 00:55:19,199 used to run a monthly meet up in leon Sea down the road from I 711 00:55:19,239 --> 00:55:22,440 used to live, to have a circled meditation at the end of the sort 712 00:55:22,440 --> 00:55:24,840 of the get together, the talk about the panel stuff we investigate over the 713 00:55:25,760 --> 00:55:30,360 month or so. And this blue glass bead thing appeared in the middle of 714 00:55:30,519 --> 00:55:34,079 the group. He literally just appeared from nowhere in the work. It came 715 00:55:34,079 --> 00:55:37,599 from about twenty It wasitting around, but no one rolled it into the middle. 716 00:55:37,639 --> 00:55:39,480 If they did, a perfect dame and there was all regular the people 717 00:55:39,480 --> 00:55:44,719 we knew that wouldn't have faked this. As the funny thing is about all 718 00:55:44,719 --> 00:55:49,159 this, they Mark says, it was nearly in the middle of the bed. 719 00:55:49,599 --> 00:55:53,039 You said, right in the middle with the bead. How and why 720 00:55:53,119 --> 00:55:59,360 is it so important to particist activity or whatever to get everything central in the 721 00:55:59,480 --> 00:56:04,639 right place. Well, it certainly gets your attention, doesn't it. If 722 00:56:04,679 --> 00:56:08,039 it was like on the corner of the bed or just in kind of a 723 00:56:08,119 --> 00:56:14,800 random location. You would tend to blow it off more. But uh yeah, 724 00:56:15,079 --> 00:56:20,320 it's perfectly centered. I mean that catches your attention, like, why 725 00:56:20,360 --> 00:56:24,079 would say you put it there? It's the same as my money in the 726 00:56:24,159 --> 00:56:28,079 kitchen. Yeah. So like the copy decks, as I said at the 727 00:56:28,079 --> 00:56:30,880 beginning, that was in the middle of the floor. The room's quite small. 728 00:56:30,920 --> 00:56:34,039 It was sort of ten foot square, like it's pretty tiny, but 729 00:56:34,119 --> 00:56:36,159 it was in the middle of the floor. There's no way it could have 730 00:56:36,199 --> 00:56:38,920 been there the whole time. It had to be placed there by someone or 731 00:56:38,920 --> 00:56:43,480 something. And to say, my wife and I didn't move it. My 732 00:56:43,519 --> 00:56:45,639 wife's mom lived with us at that point and she was absolutely am which I 733 00:56:45,960 --> 00:56:49,719 believed that she didn't move it there. It's just not her things, not 734 00:56:49,760 --> 00:56:52,159 that doesn't do things like that. So it was just that mystery how it 735 00:56:52,679 --> 00:56:58,519 where one wed been all that time because I searched everywhere and to how it 736 00:56:58,599 --> 00:57:02,159 got there, just to completely history. Well, as far as I'm concerned, 737 00:57:02,159 --> 00:57:08,400 we can out rule adolescent teenager in all their cases. Definitely Mark as 738 00:57:08,400 --> 00:57:12,760 well. Well, I know, I'm I know how immature I am. 739 00:57:12,880 --> 00:57:17,719 So yeah, so how is it doing it if everybody's saying, okay, 740 00:57:17,760 --> 00:57:23,639 it's adds some teenager or whatever, or a mixed up teenager. That's not 741 00:57:23,719 --> 00:57:29,840 happening. Now, How is it? The cases I've been involved in investigating 742 00:57:29,880 --> 00:57:34,320 where you've had that kind of activity in someone's house, there's almost university being 743 00:57:34,360 --> 00:57:37,599 young kids around in the family, and almost university troubled kids as well. 744 00:57:38,239 --> 00:57:44,559 It does enough. I keep mine two hundred and fifty miles away. I 745 00:57:44,599 --> 00:57:49,719 don't have any even easier. Well, I will say I didn't even tell 746 00:57:49,800 --> 00:57:54,559 you this, Irene, but after months of nothing happening, my garage door 747 00:57:54,639 --> 00:57:59,679 opened by it off again just to get a couple of days ago, and 748 00:57:59,719 --> 00:58:05,039 I was sitting up here in the office and all of a sudden I hear 749 00:58:05,079 --> 00:58:07,400 it opening downstairs, and I run down. Of course, nobody's there, 750 00:58:08,480 --> 00:58:15,199 and it hasn't done that in months. Comes maybe think you catch on camera 751 00:58:15,280 --> 00:58:16,519 or anything. Well, but if you did have a camera down it wouldn't 752 00:58:16,519 --> 00:58:22,960 happened. I did have a camera down there, and fortunately it wasn't sensitive 753 00:58:22,079 --> 00:58:27,199 enough to catch the door opening. It would catch it was motion detecting. 754 00:58:27,679 --> 00:58:31,679 It would only uh detect my car when my car pulled in and was almost 755 00:58:31,760 --> 00:58:37,000 right on top of it, so and it happened so randomly. Now, 756 00:58:37,000 --> 00:58:42,280 I had heard a story once that somebody says was telling me about you know 757 00:58:42,400 --> 00:58:47,360 that if you get spiders or something inside the electronics and then moving around could 758 00:58:47,440 --> 00:58:54,519 trigger it to open and close. But we're the fact that it hadn't happened 759 00:58:54,559 --> 00:59:00,519 in months and now all of a sudden does again. I'm very scared of 760 00:59:00,599 --> 00:59:07,320 that explanation. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think it's one of the 761 00:59:07,599 --> 00:59:12,679 issues we have with this sort of phenomenon. It defies normal explanation. It's 762 00:59:12,800 --> 00:59:15,159 not the sort of thing you could replicate it probably keys. You can't replicate 763 00:59:15,199 --> 00:59:19,400 these sort of things in a laboratory. That's one of the biggest problems in 764 00:59:19,440 --> 00:59:24,239 the scientific validation of these things. Require you to replicate it under scientific second 765 00:59:24,239 --> 00:59:28,519 science of the world'm looking for but conditions. But this is sort of thing 766 00:59:28,599 --> 00:59:31,519 you can't is by its nature, it's from the world out there around us. 767 00:59:31,519 --> 00:59:36,280 You know, you can't just sort of go into laboratory and expect panel 768 00:59:36,320 --> 00:59:38,679 activity to a co sevent in someone's house you've been observing. You can't replicate 769 00:59:38,719 --> 00:59:44,880 it that way. It's just it's crazy. Yeah, well, I agree 770 00:59:44,920 --> 00:59:52,480 that it's one of those odd things about the nature of reality that you know, 771 00:59:52,519 --> 00:59:58,159 we just don't know. It's definitely happening. There could be several different 772 00:59:58,199 --> 01:00:06,360 explanations, but they all tend to involve a paranormal aspect to it, which, 773 01:00:06,400 --> 01:00:13,440 of course science would automatically dismiss. Yeah. So I've said quite often 774 01:00:13,559 --> 01:00:19,039 of sort of the general sort of stuff like panorm will be a cult whatever. 775 01:00:19,559 --> 01:00:22,440 These things happen too often to be coincidence, but not often enough to 776 01:00:22,480 --> 01:00:28,480 be provable. In that kind of gray area where it's too common a too 777 01:00:29,079 --> 01:00:34,519 happens too often would be just coincidence, but not often enough to be quantifiable 778 01:00:34,559 --> 01:00:40,159 and provable. That's the problem. Hmmm, that's a phenomenon in that middle 779 01:00:40,199 --> 01:00:45,159 ground where it's just too often to be pure coincidence but not enough to prove 780 01:00:45,079 --> 01:00:52,079 Yeah. Fascinating, Absolutely fascinating. Well, I think we've come to the 781 01:00:52,159 --> 01:00:59,559 end of the show. Great way to go out before Christmas, the three 782 01:00:59,599 --> 01:01:02,239 of us getting together. We're going to have to do this again, definitely, 783 01:01:02,320 --> 01:01:07,480 definitely, because I have a lot more cases I could talk about too. 784 01:01:07,400 --> 01:01:10,199 I also say I'm genuinely a lot more freer than I used to be 785 01:01:10,239 --> 01:01:13,440 now I don't want to see clients every day of the week. I am 786 01:01:14,400 --> 01:01:16,159 more time to do things like these shows and be great to work together the 787 01:01:16,159 --> 01:01:20,119 three of us. Again. It's been a long time, Yes it has, 788 01:01:20,480 --> 01:01:24,000 Yes, it has. So everyone, thank you for tuning in. 789 01:01:28,559 --> 01:01:31,880 Thank you everyone for tuning in to the end of the year edition of the 790 01:01:31,920 --> 01:01:38,480 Paranormal UK Radio Show. The flagship show here on the Paranormal UK Radio Network 791 01:01:38,599 --> 01:01:45,000 rated number two of all the networks out there by feet spot, so I 792 01:01:45,119 --> 01:01:51,239 got to give that another plug. And where can people find us? I 793 01:01:51,400 --> 01:02:04,760 mean everywhere and spreater speaker and everywhere else spreaker speaker speaker that sounds it's like 794 01:02:04,880 --> 01:02:10,159 speaker but with an R speaker. Yeah all right, well everybody, thank 795 01:02:10,199 --> 01:02:14,960 you very much for tuning in. We hope everyone has a wonderful and save 796 01:02:15,079 --> 01:02:20,679 holiday and we will catch you all in the coming year. Uh, be 797 01:02:20,760 --> 01:02:23,639 good humans, We will catch you next time. Bye bye bye time. 798 01:02:27,119 --> 01:02:31,159 That's good. Yeah, that's good. Enjoy that can't one as usually do 799 01:02:31,239 --> 01:02:37,239 with subjects and the income. I hope that made sentence again. Teeth ast