1 00:00:01,040 --> 00:00:07,200 The Electrical Show with Thomas Naji sponsored by Boss Professional Powerful power tools for measuring 2 00:00:07,240 --> 00:00:15,320 tools and experts accessories. Welcome to the Electrical Show here on Fixed Radio with 3 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:19,039 Bosh Professional. I'm your host Thomas Naji, and with me once again is 4 00:00:19,079 --> 00:00:24,359 Paul Meaning at the side on this with hello. On this week's show, 5 00:00:24,679 --> 00:00:30,359 we're going to track the journey from apprentice to master in the trade and discuss 6 00:00:30,559 --> 00:00:35,719 what each step was like for us. Now music over the coin fact. 7 00:00:35,719 --> 00:00:39,439 Before music, I like to have my short little what should we call it? 8 00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:42,679 We should give this a name, Paul, this little where I give 9 00:00:42,719 --> 00:00:47,359 little anecdotes of life knowledge. Let's give it a name. Well, my 10 00:00:47,399 --> 00:00:50,679 first thought was nighttime nagy, but it's not nine o'cloud. Depending on whether 11 00:00:50,679 --> 00:00:56,600 you're listening this at ten o'clock, it is nighttime nargy. But text in 12 00:00:56,679 --> 00:01:00,320 some ideas. Yes. Eighty one four hundred started message with the word fix 13 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:04,400 now last week in actually in the first link I was talking about the delay 14 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:10,599 of gratification and just going on from that, there was another. I love 15 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:14,239 reading these studies and stuff and just learning. All the people call me boring. 16 00:01:17,799 --> 00:01:23,760 I don't care life experience like life experience is really like we can talk 17 00:01:23,799 --> 00:01:26,200 about electrical stuff, but some of the most for me, like some of 18 00:01:26,239 --> 00:01:30,640 the most important stuff you can talk about is actually just like life lessons, 19 00:01:30,799 --> 00:01:34,959 like human stories, and everyone is so you know, we're talking about business 20 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:38,719 and stuff, and everyone is so fixated on earning money more. To be 21 00:01:38,719 --> 00:01:42,239 fair, I am also like that, you know. But there was a 22 00:01:42,239 --> 00:01:47,319 study that was done and what they found. I'm still trying to get this 23 00:01:47,439 --> 00:01:49,799 person, I said about two years ago. I'm trying to get this the 24 00:01:49,879 --> 00:01:56,200 woman who did this study, she's a doctor at Birmingham University or something, 25 00:01:56,200 --> 00:02:00,120 and she did a study and anyway, what she found was that happiness, 26 00:02:00,599 --> 00:02:06,120 it loosely equates to money. So what she found was that as as your 27 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:09,159 wages increase, your level of happiness increases, which would make sense. So 28 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:14,560 money doesn't buy happiness, but it buys you the things which make your life 29 00:02:14,599 --> 00:02:17,840 a bit easier, which give happiness. Okay, but that only goes up 30 00:02:17,919 --> 00:02:23,960 to about seventy five grand. So what she found is fascinating. Up to 31 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:28,479 seventy five grand, happiness kept on increasing, but it plateaued us after seventy 32 00:02:28,479 --> 00:02:31,000 five grand. It made no difference to people's levels of happiness. So basically 33 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:35,240 what I'm saying is you could have an income of two million a year. 34 00:02:35,439 --> 00:02:38,840 People were no happier up there than they were at seventy five. Seventy five 35 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:42,319 was the cutoff point. Wow, yeah, that's all it is. Seventy 36 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:44,879 five that was all she found in this study. And it was a big 37 00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:46,560 study. It was a lot of people she are and well that was what 38 00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:51,560 she came back with as a results. So we think about if we have, 39 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:53,439 you know, half a million a year or something will be much happier, 40 00:02:54,759 --> 00:03:00,240 studies suggest otherwise. So you have a deep and meaningful moment. Well, 41 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:01,520 if you've got two people, if you if you're a husband and wife 42 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:05,360 with two point four kids and you both earning seventy five k, that's a 43 00:03:05,719 --> 00:03:07,479 really you know, if you've both got good jobs, if you're earning seventy 44 00:03:07,479 --> 00:03:10,840 five k, that's as happy as you're going to be. So chasing millions 45 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:14,599 and millions and millions isn't necessarily going to make you happier, as what I'm 46 00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:16,680 saying. So it's food for thought. Hmm, Yeah, that's what I 47 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:21,159 thought. Music over the next hour from look, no one knew that everyone's 48 00:03:21,159 --> 00:03:25,599 on side, thinking it's really interesting. That's why they tune in Fix radio 49 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:30,800 time to crack on. You're listening to the electrical show and we're plotting the 50 00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:38,400 journey from being an apprentice to being a seasoned professional and discussing what that was 51 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:42,120 like for us. Now, Paul, what was your apprenticeship? Like, 52 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:50,080 Ah, you go, then I'll go traumatizing. That's that's pretty across the 53 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:53,159 board now. At the time, it was really hard because mine was split 54 00:03:53,199 --> 00:03:58,680 because the company I worked for initially they kind of like closed after a year. 55 00:03:58,719 --> 00:04:03,840 That was domestic commercials off. Then I jumped on rail and let's put 56 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:08,960 mental health was not a consideration during my apprenticeship. There were many times I 57 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:12,840 went home crying or I got hit with bits of conduit or unistrut. I 58 00:04:12,879 --> 00:04:15,959 hate to say it out loud, but it did actually happen. Eventually I 59 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:19,920 did retaliate and it was almost a writer passage. But did I learn loads? 60 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:24,720 Yes? Did it help me on my journey to becoming a young man, 61 00:04:25,399 --> 00:04:28,040 Yes? Did it teach me stuff that my father never taught me? 62 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:30,879 Yes? Did it show me what good people were and bad people were? 63 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:33,879 It started to give me an idea that there were some good and bad people. 64 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:41,759 Would I change any of it? No little bit. Apprentices have changed 65 00:04:41,959 --> 00:04:46,519 definitely because mine was a million miles removed from that. We would I think 66 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:51,879 I was like a year one apprentice and we were drilling into a concrete ceiling 67 00:04:51,959 --> 00:04:57,160 to put anchors, dropping anchors, hammer them in, put some stud But 68 00:04:57,199 --> 00:05:01,759 you've got to drill the whole perfectly square both ways. Now, obviously I 69 00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:04,720 wasn't paying a lot of attention, and mine weren't perfectly square, and I 70 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:09,959 think absolutely hate I wanted his head on a spike. I hated the guy. 71 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:12,600 And he just came behind me and just stuck the drill bit in and 72 00:05:12,639 --> 00:05:15,639 it was literally like a forty five degree angle, and I remember he just 73 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:18,600 took it out of the hand and just literally we were building a hospital at 74 00:05:18,959 --> 00:05:23,040 rd and E down next to her, and he just launched this drill bit 75 00:05:23,079 --> 00:05:26,639 that is ten mil bit across the site. It's so embarrassing because that was 76 00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:29,480 just ingrained in my head now. But there's a lot of stuff you just 77 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:31,959 can't do now, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, because like it was 78 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:35,079 horrible, but it is really weird because I have apprentices now and I find 79 00:05:35,079 --> 00:05:39,160 myself being really nice to them. Yeah. Yeah, I also don't have 80 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:41,160 to go no no, no, no, go old school. Don't bully 81 00:05:41,199 --> 00:05:44,040 them, don't intimidate them. Yeah, but put them under a little bit 82 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:47,120 of pressure and just watch them creak. And that I know it sounds a 83 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:49,879 bit some people are probably going, oh no, that's terrible. That there 84 00:05:49,959 --> 00:05:54,399 is a certain level of pressure which is a healthy pressure, because becoming a 85 00:05:54,439 --> 00:05:58,519 tradesman, in your apprenticeship, it's about being having pressure applied to you in 86 00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:00,879 a way where you will come You will come up, you will you will 87 00:06:00,879 --> 00:06:03,759 develop the right thinking, you will develop the right way of doing things, 88 00:06:03,759 --> 00:06:09,959 whether it be physical works or mental thinking. And that pressure is the eat, 89 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:12,920 sleep, repeat of it is what gives you the experience to be a 90 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:17,480 very good tradesman. We don't go to the extents now of hitting people. 91 00:06:17,519 --> 00:06:21,600 And I got a certain depot I had. I remember I had an Abb 92 00:06:21,759 --> 00:06:26,040 Steward's a boiler suit on and it was loose for me, and I remember 93 00:06:26,079 --> 00:06:29,639 a bit of shallow unistrup being going through my arms and being mounted to a 94 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:33,040 frame for a few hours. I remember my camera. I had one of 95 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:36,800 those old thirty five mil film cameras, throw away ones that I know. 96 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:41,519 Spent a lot of my salary on trying to take photos to show my tutor 97 00:06:41,519 --> 00:06:44,879 that I was doing big boys stuff, you know, big armors. And 98 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:47,439 I remember being sent out for dinner and all the lads lining up outside Wembley 99 00:06:47,439 --> 00:06:51,519 train care depot dropping their pants, taking photos on my camera, putting there, 100 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:55,959 putting my camera down their pants. This is a true story. And 101 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:58,560 then I would go home and go, oh the cameras, you know, 102 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:00,120 give it to my missusgo could you get out of helop because I'm busy working 103 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:04,279 long hours. And then about two weeks later when the film got developed, 104 00:07:04,399 --> 00:07:09,800 it was just a roll of bums. And so yeah, I got lots 105 00:07:09,839 --> 00:07:15,439 of pranks. I think. One other thing which really annoyed me when I 106 00:07:15,519 --> 00:07:18,439 finished my apprenticeship, I was at Waterloo and my missus as a present, 107 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:21,879 bought me some brand new Nicare trainers, my first ever pair, and the 108 00:07:21,959 --> 00:07:28,519 lads came fixed them to the ceiling of Waterloo station and I went into the 109 00:07:28,519 --> 00:07:31,639 foreman, God bless him, and I was fuming because they let me go 110 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:34,079 early. It was a night shift, and I said them, bleep, 111 00:07:34,079 --> 00:07:36,800 bleep, bleep bleeps have done this? You need to sack them. And 112 00:07:38,199 --> 00:07:40,360 when I told him what happened, he just sat back. In his Irish 113 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:44,040 accent, he went, there are some lads and I was like, oh 114 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:46,519 man, she's gonna kill me. But do you know what all them I 115 00:07:46,879 --> 00:07:50,000 love and respect all them lads, and it builds some great memories. So 116 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:56,120 take the rough with this move, and it is definitely part of building your 117 00:07:56,639 --> 00:08:01,399 character and your caliber as a tradesman. So I wouldn't change anything, but 118 00:08:01,519 --> 00:08:03,399 it's changed a bit. I mean, you wouldn't change anything. But looking 119 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:09,480 at modern apprenticeships now, there does seem to be a different expectation for what 120 00:08:09,519 --> 00:08:13,879 apprentices expect because I don't know. Yes, I seem to find that there's 121 00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:18,879 a very much you need to give me that I'm entitled to this I once 122 00:08:18,959 --> 00:08:22,560 have this. There is an ever ever growing gap and a problem with apprentices 123 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:26,319 And again it's owner my opinion. As an employer, I have a set 124 00:08:26,319 --> 00:08:30,439 of expectations that are generational. The modern apprentices now spend their first year in 125 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:33,039 college just doing health and safety. Now they're doing that for a reason. 126 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:37,840 Is it because our generation failed so badly at health and safety that they're trying 127 00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:41,639 to improve it? And going right, You can't actually be near anything because 128 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:45,519 years ago, when you're an apprentice, you weren't allowed to do jack anywhere 129 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:48,320 on all live stuff until they knew you had half a brain on you and 130 00:08:48,399 --> 00:08:52,679 you were supervised. But evidently, I think over the years the apprenticeship standard 131 00:08:52,799 --> 00:08:56,960 or the application of what apprentice is. I know from experience there are some 132 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:01,320 companies that will employ lots of apprentices, but they're not the cheap labor. 133 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:03,600 They call them apprentices so they can pay them little and they don't teach them, 134 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:07,720 and that does you know that can be detrimental to some people come into 135 00:09:07,759 --> 00:09:11,639 the industry sadly because they'll end up leaving. But yeah, it's a lot 136 00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:16,320 different now. We need to our expectations is not others reality, and we 137 00:09:16,399 --> 00:09:22,080 need to adapt our expectations for what are a modern apprentices. However, it 138 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:26,039 is within our realm of influence to make sure that the practical skills of that 139 00:09:26,159 --> 00:09:30,960 trade are taught and measured to what we expect. To be honest with you, 140 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:33,919 our apprentices should be better versions of us. Let's be perfect, frank, 141 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:37,559 because there will come a time when you let them go out by themselves. 142 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:41,159 And we've got an apprentice where I work young lad Joe. When I 143 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:46,080 first met him five years ago he was wet behind the ears. Now he's 144 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:50,720 a very confident, calm, you know, very positive thinking, good electrician. 145 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:54,559 It's great to a shiva. So it does work. You don't have 146 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:58,039 to beat it into them, is what I'm saying. Well, let's talk 147 00:09:58,039 --> 00:10:03,519 about how we can become competent and which don electricians. Next The Electrical Show 148 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:07,519 Thursday from three and catch up anytime at Fix Radio dot co dot uk the 149 00:10:07,519 --> 00:10:13,799 builder station Fix Radio. This is the Electrical Show with Bosch Professional and Thomas 150 00:10:13,879 --> 00:10:18,279 Naji with Paul Mean, and we're talking about the route we take from being 151 00:10:18,639 --> 00:10:24,639 a novice apprentice to being a master of your craft. Now, Paul, 152 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:28,519 key steps, what do we think key steps that can't be missed when you're 153 00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:35,200 turning yourself into let's say, a thoughtful independent member of our trade. For 154 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:41,519 me, the most important step it was realizing that I can. I know 155 00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:45,919 it sounds very corny, but I remember when I was a first year, 156 00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:46,519 second year and I want to be able to do that. I want to 157 00:10:46,519 --> 00:10:50,039 be able to do that. And then as I went through my time, 158 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:54,639 realizing that actually I was exceeding what I thought i'd want to do. You 159 00:10:54,679 --> 00:10:56,279 know, by the time I was in my four fear of my apprenticeship, 160 00:10:56,320 --> 00:11:01,639 I was building unistrup frames, putting panels up, glanding big armoreds, and 161 00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:03,799 I was doing it by myself. Because the former like, yeah, he's 162 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:07,399 a machine, he's young, he's keen, he's hungry, runs around like 163 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:11,080 a lunatic. You know, he does put a shift in, especially because 164 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:13,480 I was the apprentices and the foreman's got permission from me old man to you 165 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:18,799 know, treat me quite aggressively. So I worked, I put a shift 166 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:20,799 in, and the minute I finished my apprenticeship, I was being put in 167 00:11:20,879 --> 00:11:24,240 charge of jobs. So it was that. But I wouldn't have accepted that 168 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:28,279 if I didn't have that realization moment of I can do that. I can 169 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:33,799 actually build a backbone of free compartment trunk in and unistructure piece brackets, and 170 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:35,879 I can do this, and I know what a single point of failure is, 171 00:11:35,879 --> 00:11:39,399 and I know what this is. You definitely come into a realization. 172 00:11:39,759 --> 00:11:43,600 I think for a lot of people it doesn't happen sometimes until later on, 173 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:46,759 sometimes past the four or five years. But I think, why we I 174 00:11:46,799 --> 00:11:50,840 mean for me, especially, an apprenticeship is four or five years minimum before 175 00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:54,080 you'd come out and go right, I can actually now do this by myself, 176 00:11:54,159 --> 00:11:58,480 lead other people train, other people share that knowledge. I know some 177 00:11:58,519 --> 00:12:01,399 apprenticeships are well on. Training courses are very short, but very very short, 178 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:05,840 ridiculously, But we won't get into that. What kind of learning do 179 00:12:05,879 --> 00:12:07,799 we think we're going to be needing after the apprenticeship, because it's kind of 180 00:12:07,799 --> 00:12:11,519 like saying, you know, you learn to drive after you pass your test. 181 00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:13,919 Yeah, that's a really good saying. Actually, yeah, you've got 182 00:12:13,919 --> 00:12:16,799 you like, but that's not you know, the journey only starts when you 183 00:12:16,799 --> 00:12:20,759 get a cart and one assessing you anymore, the journey starts. I mean 184 00:12:20,799 --> 00:12:24,000 that's how that's where your journey begins. It's like, that's your that's your 185 00:12:24,039 --> 00:12:28,639 your start point. You've never had that before, No, never, You're 186 00:12:28,919 --> 00:12:31,519 full of philosophy to drive. Honestly, you learn to drive after you pass 187 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:39,960 your test. I my test anyway. But moving on, there's a whole 188 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:45,720 there's a whole episode in that at allowed it to night time Najia I. 189 00:12:45,759 --> 00:12:48,399 It depends on the direction that you want to go. So if you just 190 00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:52,679 want to be a good grafter and just earn your money. If if you 191 00:12:52,759 --> 00:12:56,320 know what you know and your your workmanship is good, you will be selected 192 00:12:56,320 --> 00:12:58,440 out to be doing all the work, doing all the overtimes. During the 193 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:01,200 weekend, the work will be there for you on a plate. If you 194 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:05,320 want to go into supervision, you know there's there's a journey you've got to 195 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:07,480 go on to. You've got to get some maybe some formal safety qualifications, 196 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:11,360 even like the SSSTS if you want to just do some site supervision. If 197 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:15,440 you're an electrical contractor, if you want to, you know, take a 198 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:18,639 step up. You do your SMSTS so you can be a qualified site manager 199 00:13:18,639 --> 00:13:22,360 that used to be recognized by CDM rigs. If you want to go into 200 00:13:22,399 --> 00:13:26,720 project management, you could do some maybe contractual training, learn what the NEC 201 00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:28,840 contracts are, the JCT because the end of the day, you're going to 202 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:31,799 go from one day putting Unich strap on the wall job Bo's going right, 203 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:35,080 You're not only doing the day sheets, but you're going to represent them some 204 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:37,879 site. So you need to know when somebody's telling you do this, do 205 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:41,000 this one, it's a change, how do you administer that? So there's 206 00:13:41,039 --> 00:13:43,679 a huge we never stop learning in this trade regardless of what you do. 207 00:13:43,759 --> 00:13:48,440 And this is the trouble you can never master, in my opinion, everything 208 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:50,720 in this trade, because not only have you got THEMS, the domestic, 209 00:13:50,759 --> 00:13:54,879 the commercial of the industrial, you've got the different levels, the different approaches 210 00:13:54,919 --> 00:13:58,159 where you're an apprentice electrician, a text way, a lead formant, a 211 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:03,440 project manager, project engineer, a site engineer, contracts engineer. There's so 212 00:14:03,519 --> 00:14:07,960 many variants. It's like looking at the sun from different angles. Everybody sees 213 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:09,600 the sun, but the journey will be slightly different, and the temperature and 214 00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:15,120 pressure there under will be slightly different. So it all depends on where you 215 00:14:15,159 --> 00:14:18,120 want to go. But the one thing people need to realize is the weld 216 00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:20,360 youh oister in this trade because there's not enough of us. Yeah, there's 217 00:14:20,399 --> 00:14:24,399 just not enough. I think it's going to get it's going to get even 218 00:14:24,399 --> 00:14:28,480 worse. I think give it ten years. I said that ten years ago, 219 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:35,000 and I'm seeing how really desperately bad it is. More. I think 220 00:14:35,039 --> 00:14:37,039 some of it has probably focused on my LinkedIn posts in the negative, but 221 00:14:37,799 --> 00:14:41,600 I generally ten years ago read a report that said we are going to be 222 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:46,279 in a dire state with the trades and the number of people in trades and 223 00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:48,919 then to see that thing from the Construction Leadership Council that was talking about hundreds 224 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:52,840 of thousands of people have left and not many people have joined. All it 225 00:14:52,879 --> 00:14:56,120 did was ratify that. And as someone who orders the work, because that's 226 00:14:56,159 --> 00:14:58,120 what I do do I order the work, I sometimes have to order the 227 00:14:58,159 --> 00:15:01,120 work into an abyss and with contractors going sorry, I ain't got any staff, 228 00:15:01,639 --> 00:15:05,399 I can't get good people, and he's just like, ah, there's 229 00:15:05,399 --> 00:15:09,559 a bigger problem here. But when you're the person ordering the work, you've 230 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:11,759 then got to have a conversation with people who don't know anything about the construction 231 00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:16,480 trades, and that's the client organizations, which is why I wish there would 232 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:20,679 be more done to educate the client entities because they don't know that. They 233 00:15:20,679 --> 00:15:24,279 don't know in a lot of unless they have someone like me, they don't 234 00:15:24,279 --> 00:15:28,600 know that. They don't know. They're unconsciously incompetent. That's a I like 235 00:15:28,639 --> 00:15:31,159 that unconsciously. We've spoken about this before. Actually, yeah, they are 236 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:35,080 unconsciously incompetent. And that's why a lot of tradesmen, regardless of where they're 237 00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:37,960 working, will meet a client and that client won't know, they won't know 238 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:39,879 that, they don't know any of this stuff. You're doing your best. 239 00:15:39,879 --> 00:15:43,320 They'll just think you're trying to rip them off. They're not. And that's 240 00:15:43,399 --> 00:15:46,080 kind of why I enjoy being a client, because I try and be fair 241 00:15:46,759 --> 00:15:52,440 as a client and not a horrible person. I mean, you're pretty well, 242 00:15:52,679 --> 00:15:56,159 I mean, very well accomplished. But have you ever been guilty of 243 00:15:56,200 --> 00:16:00,320 sort of standing still and missing opportunities? Oh? God, yeah, yeah, 244 00:16:00,399 --> 00:16:06,240 I've turned down some absolute Yeah, I've had loads of people of the 245 00:16:06,279 --> 00:16:08,000 years. So you set mere an electrical company. I said that, I 246 00:16:08,039 --> 00:16:11,159 think a couple of months back. I was always too scared to do it. 247 00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:15,559 And I've had people approach me and say to me, please, could 248 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:18,240 you come and do this work? We actually like the conduct of what you 249 00:16:18,279 --> 00:16:22,159 do, we like the level of detail and analytics that you have, and 250 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:25,440 I've always been too scared to do it. And now I kicked myself. 251 00:16:25,519 --> 00:16:29,519 I'd like to go back in time and beat myself up over a few decisions 252 00:16:29,519 --> 00:16:33,159 we made. But OK, those as long as you reflect upon them and 253 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:34,720 you try and not make them again, then you know less and learn. 254 00:16:34,759 --> 00:16:40,200 I suppose fixed Radio I'm Thomas and argue with Paul mean and here on the 255 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:44,480 Electrical Show, and we are talking about the journey from being an apprentice to 256 00:16:44,679 --> 00:16:48,440 an electrician. And Paul, let's say you've come into the trade in your 257 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:52,600 late teens, which is quite common now more and more people are training later 258 00:16:52,679 --> 00:16:57,080 on in their life. What in your head does success look like sort of 259 00:16:57,159 --> 00:17:03,440 ten years on, like late ties as an electrician? How does that? 260 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:07,920 That's a really good question. Again, what does success look like? I'm 261 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:10,799 going to go back to when I was in my twenties. Success looks like 262 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:15,640 your wallet being full. Yeah, I mean yeah, Well when you exp 263 00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:17,880 you're not going to sit there and go, well, I did this swan 264 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:19,920 neck on some conjurit the other day and it was lovely. And I go 265 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:22,640 back and visit here every few years. Because I'm talking out of it. 266 00:17:22,839 --> 00:17:26,960 No, it's actually I was on that job and I owned a fortune, 267 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:30,279 and more importantly, I got to wine and die in the Missus. I 268 00:17:30,279 --> 00:17:33,920 had some good fun times with the lad's life was good. That to me 269 00:17:33,039 --> 00:17:36,880 is the measure when you're in your young and you're in your twenties, That's 270 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:40,480 that is the measure, isn't It's living? All right? Well, look 271 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:44,759 Some people might decide that this sort of journey culminates with being a you know, 272 00:17:44,799 --> 00:17:47,599 you then become a bars and you and then you employ other sparks. 273 00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:51,720 But that's also just the beginning of another journey, isn't it, Because I 274 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:52,920 mean that's a whole world in itself. I mean, that's the world you 275 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:56,440 said. That's the journey you said you wanted to take. You're looking back 276 00:17:56,440 --> 00:18:00,000 at it now, but you haven't. Yeah, well, I kind of 277 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:06,559 It's weird. My twenties was I started my journey into being a manager for 278 00:18:06,759 --> 00:18:11,839 I hate these terms in various large contracting organizations and stuff into the role I 279 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:15,920 mean now, which is a client. But yeah, I mean when you're 280 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:18,359 in your late twenties, ken, it all depends on what you want. 281 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:21,759 I know, lads are quite happy to be sparks, you know, forever. 282 00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:23,599 It's only when you hit your late thirties and if you're not fit and 283 00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:27,200 healthy, then your back twinges, in your arm twinges, and you'd start 284 00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:30,839 going the iron need to get off the tools. But there's no wrong in 285 00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:34,680 the direction you take because if you're in your mid thirties or late twenties, 286 00:18:34,799 --> 00:18:40,880 or you're fought in you want to change or become a manager for electrical contractors 287 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:42,880 or a site manager, whatever, brilliant. How much experience you've got, 288 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:48,559 Look how much experience of install you will be incredibly useful. There are people 289 00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:52,640 screaming out for experienced people to help. And the thing is as well, 290 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:56,839 if you're on a site and you've got trades, you can mold the quality 291 00:18:56,839 --> 00:19:00,960 expectations to what you want so that it ain't just chuck it in and run 292 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:03,559 away. You can actually do saying go, look, lads, we're not 293 00:19:03,559 --> 00:19:04,839 going to roun on this job. But I want us all to look back 294 00:19:04,839 --> 00:19:07,880 and when somebody says, watch your favorite job, it was that one. 295 00:19:08,039 --> 00:19:11,039 Because we've all got jobs that standout a mile and it was always the lads. 296 00:19:11,079 --> 00:19:14,440 It was always the behaviors of the site management and the work that you 297 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:15,799 were able to do. That was what you were most proud of. I 298 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:22,000 wired all the pyro on excel Are in ninety eight. I think it was 299 00:19:22,079 --> 00:19:25,319 ninety nine or something like that, and I still look back all these years 300 00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:26,599 ago and go, that was the best Piro I've ever done. I was 301 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:30,440 up in the freezing cold at night by myself. It was awesome. It 302 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:33,720 was a great job, and the blokes were great, the supervisors were great, 303 00:19:33,759 --> 00:19:37,200 and you had time to do the job well. So yeah, it's 304 00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:41,680 different, different things for different people. But how many hours have you put 305 00:19:41,759 --> 00:19:45,799 in to where you've got? I mean, because you've done so much in 306 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:52,359 terms of like just constant cp doing CPD. I mean, I was trying 307 00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:53,079 to think of a better word, but I mean that's the only one I 308 00:19:53,079 --> 00:19:59,000 could think. Earning just learning too many, To be honest with you, 309 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:03,680 I think one year, I actually about three four years ago I started to 310 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:07,480 properly, properly record and document it. Like if somebody was listening and they 311 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:10,519 wanted to try to get to where you are with that level of knowledge, 312 00:20:10,559 --> 00:20:14,720 how what have you done to get that? Read? Re read that's it? 313 00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:18,000 Read, get a highlight a pen. Three years ago, my CPD 314 00:20:18,079 --> 00:20:19,319 return, which is the stuff I did record, was at eight hundred and 315 00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:23,799 sixty nine hours. The year after that was about six hundred. This year 316 00:20:23,799 --> 00:20:27,039 I'm up to about four hundred and then this is a slow year. People 317 00:20:27,039 --> 00:20:30,400 don't realize, especially in trades, when you open up a I don't know, 318 00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:33,359 an extract fan you fit in on a site somewhere and you have to 319 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:37,119 read that manual. That's learning because you're gonna sit there and go. I 320 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:41,039 didn't know that that manufacturer's got specific requirements. I didn't know that. Now 321 00:20:41,079 --> 00:20:42,359 what we don't do as trades is we don't sit there and go. I 322 00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:47,599 must fill in my CPD learning log. And the trouble is is post Grenfell, 323 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:52,000 we've now become and it is slowly creeping its way in having to declare 324 00:20:52,079 --> 00:20:55,319 your your continuous learning so that you can at least say, look, I'm 325 00:20:55,319 --> 00:20:56,880 a tradesman. I'm good at what I'm doing, but I also keep up 326 00:20:56,920 --> 00:21:00,279 with all the different changes. I do my training, I do my on 327 00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:03,640 site learning. I keep in touch with what's going on the industry so I 328 00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:07,599 don't do something wrong. That's a journey that five years ago, if you'd 329 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:11,319 have said CPD, I remember doing podcasts five years ago talking about CPD and 330 00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:15,039 it was just like, well's that then. Now everyone in the industry knows 331 00:21:15,079 --> 00:21:18,480 what CBD is, So imagine what I'll be in five years, ten years, 332 00:21:18,519 --> 00:21:22,640 fifteen years. But if you want the knowledge, just go away and 333 00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:26,160 read. Just literally just go away and read. Pick up a book, 334 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:30,640 pick up a standard and read it. There's no secret formula your brain will 335 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:34,200 work differently. And I found using a highlight a pen to highlight the words 336 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:38,119 that a trademan would want to use is the way of learning standard. So 337 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:41,920 you can learn a three hundred paid standard just by highlighting the words that you 338 00:21:42,039 --> 00:21:45,799 might find useful on site. And that's how I learned most of the standards 339 00:21:45,839 --> 00:21:51,480 that I know. I mean, just going fractionally off pissed here. We 340 00:21:51,519 --> 00:21:56,240 were just talking in earlier in the last link about the shortage of apprentices and 341 00:21:56,240 --> 00:22:00,359 how that's going to be a real issue. I think in years, I 342 00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:03,440 think it will be such a mad issue. It had an ending issue as 343 00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:07,200 well, wasn't it. With it? There is a funding issue, and 344 00:22:06,559 --> 00:22:10,039 I had to get a crown completely after there is a point of this. 345 00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:11,640 I had to get a crown fitted. I know, my producers like, 346 00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:15,200 what's he doing. He's going off pissed. There's a point I had to 347 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:18,079 get a crown fitted. You know people now go to Turkey to get they 348 00:22:18,079 --> 00:22:22,839 get this perfect white smile. Well they do it basically by grinding down every 349 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:25,839 tooth and giving you a crown. That's that's basically how they do it. 350 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:29,319 So all of your teeth they literally just grind all of them down to stumps. 351 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:32,319 You basically get a mouthful of crowns. That is how they give you 352 00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:34,480 this perfect white smile. You just get a mouthful of crowns. And I 353 00:22:34,519 --> 00:22:37,319 was in the dentist I had one crown fitted and this guy was like, 354 00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:41,240 because I asked him, I said, how does that make any sense? 355 00:22:41,319 --> 00:22:45,359 People are just literally they're just grinding all of their teeth away to get them. 356 00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:48,359 Yeah, and he said it literally in ten years, he said, 357 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:56,160 this would be an absolutely cataclysmic scale of people all with basically knackered crowns or 358 00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:57,720 wanting them taken out. And then of course they can't. They've got them 359 00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:02,200 for life. Now that's it. So yeah, just when you said apprentice 360 00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:03,839 isn't about ten years, I was saying about ten years. That's just a 361 00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:10,200 little story just came down. Yeah. I think in every generation, the 362 00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:12,799 next one, they see more things. But I think there is a very 363 00:23:12,839 --> 00:23:18,359 serious industry discussion needs to be had about how do we deliver the infrastructure works 364 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:23,559 and maintain the existing infrastructure. And yes, I know there's this whole let's 365 00:23:23,559 --> 00:23:27,079 introduce new technology to make us greener and more sustainable, get it. But 366 00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:32,039 you need to have the people skilled installing it, yeah, and maintaining it 367 00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:34,799 and replacing it. And at the moment I find that there's so much old 368 00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:38,079 knowledge. A lot of the apprentices I speak to, they'll send me a 369 00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:41,640 picture of a DNO intake and I'll be able to tell them exactly what it 370 00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:44,880 is, what year it was made in, and they're not being taught this 371 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:49,200 in college. So I have very serious concerns over what the City and Guild 372 00:23:49,279 --> 00:23:53,640 Syllabuses is choosing to teach youngsters, because it's a perfect example. When I 373 00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:56,039 went to college first year of college, it was two and a half days 374 00:23:56,039 --> 00:24:00,200 a week. Now it's one day a week for your first year. So 375 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:04,000 we are we have effectively reduced the learning time over those three years of college 376 00:24:04,039 --> 00:24:10,039 by two thirds. So they're not getting the same education that we got. 377 00:24:10,599 --> 00:24:14,359 And if there's not enough experienced people on site, they're not getting the apprenticeships 378 00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:17,880 that we got. But they're still there mitigating it by teaching them health and 379 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:22,119 safety. That that doesn't give you people, Yeah, it doesn't give but 380 00:24:22,279 --> 00:24:26,200 it gives you short terms. Am. It doesn't give you people who can 381 00:24:26,079 --> 00:24:30,559 put but it's solving the problem when you have an electrician on site, you 382 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:33,839 expect them or hope that they will be able to. I know there are 383 00:24:33,839 --> 00:24:36,680 clients whill go. I've got a sparky so he can do everything for me. 384 00:24:36,839 --> 00:24:37,759 If I get a new electrician, I want to go and meet him 385 00:24:37,759 --> 00:24:41,000 and talk to him and say, how can we solve this together? Are 386 00:24:41,039 --> 00:24:42,839 you okay and doing the work? That sort of thing. Try and show 387 00:24:42,839 --> 00:24:47,240 them you care that they'll get all the materials and time they need. It's 388 00:24:47,279 --> 00:24:49,119 not happening in the rest of the world. It's just your sparks. Can't 389 00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:52,079 you do it? I'll I'll just mug you off and get someone else in. 390 00:24:52,319 --> 00:24:56,640 And then you get these clients that just rotate electrical contractors like mad and 391 00:24:56,680 --> 00:25:00,079 that does happen out there. You've seen it, I most certainly have. 392 00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:03,880 All Right, well, look, let's come back to wrap this up before 393 00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:07,920 trevn Rich takeover from four pm here on fixed radio, the Bilser's station, 394 00:25:10,079 --> 00:25:14,720 The Electrical Show on Fixed Radio, and that Good People is about it. 395 00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:18,799 For today's Electrical Show, we've talked about the journey from being an apprentice to 396 00:25:18,039 --> 00:25:22,720 a master of the craft. Now, Paul, just quickly before we end, 397 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:29,759 what kind of skills, traits and experience. Would you expect an accomplished 398 00:25:29,799 --> 00:25:34,279 electrician to have What are we looking at? Oh, this is a controversial 399 00:25:34,319 --> 00:25:41,359 one. I think the necessary skills relevant to the task is probably the generic 400 00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:47,920 answer. But for me, I need to see what's the word a glint 401 00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:51,960 in ira. I need to see confidence And it sounds mental, but you 402 00:25:52,039 --> 00:25:55,480 can have confidence in knowing what to do and also have confidence in knowing what 403 00:25:55,519 --> 00:26:00,359 to do. But for me, an electrician should be able to effectively electing 404 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:03,640 installation, erected installation, inspect it, test it, certify it, hand 405 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:07,519 it over and explain it to the next bloke. That's how I was taught. 406 00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:11,200 And if you can do that, fine, And it's okay to genuinely 407 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:15,680 say not everybody knows everything. We're always learning. Every time I have to 408 00:26:15,759 --> 00:26:18,279 install saving in my house or somewhere else, I'm having to go. I 409 00:26:18,279 --> 00:26:22,640 didn't know that. That's aing new And look at the trade shows now, 410 00:26:22,839 --> 00:26:26,359 you know, Alex, You go down to one limb trade shows and there's 411 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:30,720 tons of new products on the market. I cannot keep up. I just 412 00:26:30,799 --> 00:26:33,200 can't. It's impossible. But there's lots more products trying to make it easier 413 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:37,480 for us and quicker. But for me, the fundamental bread and butter skills 414 00:26:37,519 --> 00:26:41,319 is, you know, can you bend, can you select and size a 415 00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:44,599 cable? Can you protect it? Can you explain it to someone, what's 416 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:48,400 basic and additional protection? That sort of stuff. We actually we're bending pieber 417 00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:49,519 mean, it's a cheap way of doing it, but it's really good. 418 00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:55,240 We were bending conduit on a former the other day and normally, I mean 419 00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:57,079 I've always done it. Is if you're trying to pull a ninety or something, 420 00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:00,920 you'll you'll pull it upwards and then you sort of get it roughly what 421 00:27:00,039 --> 00:27:03,839 you think it is. Have a look at you. Yeah, take it 422 00:27:03,839 --> 00:27:06,680 out the former and he's a smidge more, put it back in, click 423 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:10,960 it a bit more, and he had the digital Yeah. Jack, he's 424 00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:14,079 almost literally's an apprentice, be virtually out of his time now as a spark 425 00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:18,519 and he literally he had its magnetic angle finder and he just put it on 426 00:27:18,519 --> 00:27:21,039 the consu it, pulled it up, got it to ninety bang, took 427 00:27:21,079 --> 00:27:22,799 it straight out and it was perfect. And I was like, I looked 428 00:27:22,799 --> 00:27:26,559 at it. I was like, that's a really clever, time saving way 429 00:27:26,559 --> 00:27:29,640 of doing it. And to be fair to him, it was a better 430 00:27:29,839 --> 00:27:32,720 method. All right, I was doing it bye, but it actually took 431 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:34,240 me longer. He got it right first time. See, that's a great 432 00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:37,160 tool. But in my day it was a set square, so you just 433 00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:41,279 held up a fixed ninety degree piece and that was it. But yeah, 434 00:27:41,519 --> 00:27:45,000 I've seen that tool. They're phenomenal. I think Amazon stuff really so it's 435 00:27:45,039 --> 00:27:48,440 like literally seventeen twenty quid. They're brilliant. Yeah I cannot buy one. 436 00:27:48,519 --> 00:27:52,559 Nope, well worth it. Areas of outstanding beauty is what I've got on 437 00:27:52,599 --> 00:27:59,119 my crib sheet or AOB anything else we'd like to discuss standing beauty. I 438 00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:02,000 saw on the crib sheet and the first time I saw it because that's area 439 00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:06,640 of outs down in beauty. But yeah, AOB any other business. Not 440 00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:08,680 really for me to want to say, well, I actually know the I 441 00:28:08,759 --> 00:28:12,359 think because there's so many different people who listen to this in different journeys. 442 00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:18,160 The only thing I can say to the apprentices is enjoy it as mad as 443 00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:19,519 that sounds, because there will be some of them going through hell. Ye, 444 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:23,480 don't be afraid to ask for help. Social media's got some great people 445 00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:27,799 helping apprentices on it. Yeah, just don't be afraid to ask questions and 446 00:28:27,799 --> 00:28:30,920 to be honest with you know you're bloody worth, but know when you're being 447 00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:36,359 bullied and treated really badly. And and I know it's really hard because some 448 00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:38,960 of the colleges offersited this year have absolutely broke my heart speaking to some of 449 00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:42,839 the guys because I'm finding I'm going to colleges now and there are more and 450 00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:48,039 more people who aren't being given a chance. So my final thought is to 451 00:28:48,079 --> 00:28:52,759 the electrical contractors, give apprentices a chance. There are industry's future. You 452 00:28:52,759 --> 00:28:55,680 ain't winning work, you ain't growing about them. Perfectly well said. I 453 00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:59,279 couldn't agree more. You can hear the show again from ten o'clock right here 454 00:28:59,319 --> 00:29:02,559 on fixed rates. If you missed any of it, You can also download 455 00:29:02,559 --> 00:29:06,359 the show as a podcast. You can find links to the podcast, news 456 00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:11,000 and competitions by signing up to the Electrical Show newsletter. If you want to 457 00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:14,200 sign up, which of course you do, head to fix Radio dot co 458 00:29:14,559 --> 00:29:21,880 dot uk, where you'll find the links on the homepage.