1 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:40,640 And welcome to you. I'm Mark Willish, your host, and we have 2 00:00:40,759 --> 00:00:43,880 an interesting guest to see. I mean, we have James T. Habit. 3 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:48,520 He's written a book, The Outsider's Guide to UFOs. Should be an 4 00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:54,840 interesting an interesting time. He's a gentleman who has never belonged to a UFO 5 00:00:55,000 --> 00:01:02,439 group, He's never gone to UFO conference and he's just looking he's looking in 6 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:07,480 from the outside basically, so I'm excited about that. Now next week, 7 00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:11,159 next week, I am just announcing this part of the show. Next week, 8 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:15,640 I will be up in New Brunswick and I will be at Stanton Freedman's 9 00:01:15,799 --> 00:01:21,000 home and I'm going to do a video video conference, of video podcast, 10 00:01:21,439 --> 00:01:23,879 whatever you want to call. It's going to be live on YouTube. It's 11 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:29,760 going to be made into a podcast as usual. And basically it's my farewell 12 00:01:30,599 --> 00:01:36,079 to Stanton Freeman and my thank you to Stanton Freeman for all the work he's 13 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:38,680 done in the past. He's been on the show many times, and basically 14 00:01:38,719 --> 00:01:42,920 I wanted to make sure that I had him on the show one last time 15 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:48,840 before we retired, because basically, what he's saying is he's retiring. He's 16 00:01:48,879 --> 00:01:52,359 not giving anyone a hard date, not that I know exactly, so he 17 00:01:52,439 --> 00:01:55,840 may show up now and then, but I'm sending him off for the last 18 00:01:55,879 --> 00:01:59,439 interview that I'm going to do, and I'll be right there with him and 19 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:05,040 new on Twick. So I want to invite listeners to call in and thank 20 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:08,439 him if you'd like, and wish him well and all that stuff. So 21 00:02:09,159 --> 00:02:15,039 we should be doing that without any trouble as far as I know, hopefully 22 00:02:15,039 --> 00:02:20,080 everything will work fine. And that's a week from today, So that will 23 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:23,520 be next week, next Tuesday, at six to eight pm Eastern Standard time, 24 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:31,000 and so tune in for that we're having. Alejandro Rojas generally does the 25 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:35,479 news. I contacted him about an hour ago. He said, thanks for 26 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:38,479 the reminder of all that he's nowhere to be found. I don't know where 27 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:42,680 he might have been abducted. I'm not sure really what happened. I told 28 00:02:42,759 --> 00:02:45,560 him to call in. I just text him a second ago, asked him 29 00:02:45,599 --> 00:02:52,319 to call in if he if he gets the message in time. But I'm 30 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:57,919 not sure what happened. Oh, Harry, is he's saying something here? 31 00:02:58,599 --> 00:03:06,560 Maybe he is going to come on. I will hang on just for a 32 00:03:06,599 --> 00:03:10,680 second. So as far as I want to thank everyone that supports the show. 33 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:15,439 Anyone can do that informations on podcast ufo dot com. We are live 34 00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:22,639 now back on YouTube and on KGr A radio, which we generally are alive. 35 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:25,039 We had a couple of prerecorded shows, but we will be live again 36 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:32,120 for the foreseeable future. Hang on just one second, everyone, I'm trying 37 00:03:32,159 --> 00:03:42,719 to get him on and Alejandro and I'm sorry, I'm texting at the same 38 00:03:42,759 --> 00:03:45,479 time. He's ready, so I'm going to add him to the show. 39 00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:50,800 So hold on, everyone, and we'll get him on in just one second. 40 00:03:50,919 --> 00:03:54,960 Here. This is good radio, isn't it okay? All right? 41 00:03:57,919 --> 00:04:03,080 And he does us have some things I know he wants to talk about because 42 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:08,360 I'm on his show and he was telling me some interesting things. Aljandro, 43 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:12,360 you made it. There you are? Can you see me? I can 44 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:15,279 see you. You look like you're in the middle of some type of room 45 00:04:15,439 --> 00:04:19,720 somewhere. Have you been abducted or something? Actually, if you see right 46 00:04:19,759 --> 00:04:27,319 there there is my spaceship. That is a portal to my spaceship. But 47 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:30,639 I did not scoot it up over here in time. That's all right, 48 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:34,839 you're here, that's what counts. Yeah, I'm getting ready for that conference 49 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:40,000 tomorrow. I knew you had to announce something, Yeah, the Devil's Tower 50 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:46,480 exactly. Yeah, So well hello, and I'm glad to hear better late 51 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:50,800 than never, as they say. And so yeah, if you're watching on 52 00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:57,399 YouTube, you're seeing some great facial expressions. So you want to talk about 53 00:04:57,439 --> 00:05:00,040 that, and then a couple of other things that are happening in the A 54 00:05:00,319 --> 00:05:03,560 world. Yes, So today has been a very frantic busy day for me 55 00:05:03,639 --> 00:05:06,600 for a couple of reasons. First of all, because I am going to 56 00:05:06,639 --> 00:05:11,240 this conference tomorrow and the rest of the week at Devil's Tower in Wyoming. 57 00:05:11,319 --> 00:05:15,759 So that's a lot of fun and super exciting. And getting there, it's 58 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:18,720 kind of funny. Even if something isn't too far, if it's very rural, 59 00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:21,000 you know, it takes a long time. So it's going to take 60 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:25,839 all day to actually get to Gillette, Wyoming, which is just gorgeous. 61 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:30,079 Luckily, once you land into Wyoming and you get take the drive out there, 62 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:34,279 it's just absolutely beautiful animals everywhere. It's where the deer and the antelope 63 00:05:34,319 --> 00:05:40,120 play. But this is the other thing that's keeping me busy is that today 64 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:45,079 was the launch of Hunt for the skin Walker. The movie, so on 65 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:49,600 iTunes you can now get that. And luckily last weekend I was invited to 66 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:55,759 Las Vegas for a pre premiere where I got some exclusive videos. So I 67 00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:59,759 had to cut that together and I have. So I've got the video up 68 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:03,560 on our YouTube, the Open Mind YouTube of my interview with Jeremy, and 69 00:06:03,639 --> 00:06:10,680 I have a couple other pieces and exclusive with Jeremy and George Knapp that Den 70 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:14,439 of Geek will be posting along with the story. And then next week come 71 00:06:14,439 --> 00:06:17,439 and have George Knapp on the show. And yeah, and then I also 72 00:06:17,519 --> 00:06:21,560 had to get my show up onto YouTube and everything, and I have Chris 73 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:28,199 O'Brien on. So it's been a really busy morning. So that's why everything. 74 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:30,040 I was all ready for your show and then I said, you know 75 00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:33,560 what, I'm hungry, and I walk away for a minute and then missed 76 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:40,439 all of your text messages. That's which there's quite a few, I know, 77 00:06:40,639 --> 00:06:44,120 to get a little obsessive. I'm sorry about that. Really bad words, 78 00:06:44,199 --> 00:06:49,319 just kidding. Well, yeah, so I'll save those. So anyway, 79 00:06:49,399 --> 00:06:54,720 this is I just saw I pre bought that Skinwalker wrench and I just 80 00:06:54,759 --> 00:06:56,839 saw it come up today. You know, you can watch it now, 81 00:06:56,839 --> 00:07:00,240 So I'm really excited to watch it and when you I don't know anyone. 82 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:03,480 Everyone gets us on iTunes, but I guess there's a lot of extra footage 83 00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:09,279 to yes, like bonus footage. Yeah, lots of bonus footage if you 84 00:07:09,399 --> 00:07:13,160 order it on iTunes. It's a great documentary. So I can tell you 85 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:15,800 even for those of you who know a lot about Skinwalker or a very familiar 86 00:07:15,839 --> 00:07:23,439 with George Knapp's book, you're going to get information that you're not aware of, 87 00:07:24,759 --> 00:07:27,759 first of all. Second of all, you're all you're going to be 88 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:31,439 able to see footage that's never been seen before on the ranch. And that's 89 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:35,800 really exciting too. Some of these stories that they go over, stories you're 90 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:41,360 familiar with because they're in the book, but to actually see the locations, 91 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:46,000 to see Colum kellaher who is there at the pre screening, you know, 92 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:53,360 the lead scientists for Bigelow going over everything. It's it's really really cool. 93 00:07:53,439 --> 00:07:58,720 So I hope this does really well because I hope it kind of puts the 94 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:03,279 Skinwalker Ranch phenomena on the map, so to speak. So I think it's 95 00:08:03,399 --> 00:08:09,600 important enough study that you know, everybody should know about it, just like 96 00:08:09,639 --> 00:08:11,959 you know George Knapp put area fifty one on the map. Hopefully this will 97 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:16,720 become a big story like that as well. And it is today number one 98 00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:22,279 on the charts. George just sent me an email. Wow, number one 99 00:08:22,519 --> 00:08:28,439 for documentaries on iTunes today. That is excellent. That is excellent. Why 100 00:08:28,439 --> 00:08:33,159 I had a Jeremy on God was it last week? Yeah, when I 101 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:37,480 was over in Austria, had Jeremy on and you know, one of the 102 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:41,759 things we were talking about and I said it multi we said it multiple times 103 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:45,600 where he said it multiple times, was just hoping that a lot of people 104 00:08:45,639 --> 00:08:48,799 don't make the truck out there and try to get on the ranch. You 105 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:54,679 know, A funny part of my interview with George is that he said essentially 106 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:58,519 because my big question was George shot a lot of the footage back in two 107 00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:03,679 thousand and one that's used in this documentary, and like he says, he 108 00:09:03,759 --> 00:09:09,159 actually was planning to make a documentary before the book, and then when he 109 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:13,559 got around to that point, Bigelow said, no, no, don't do 110 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:16,360 it. I don't want Skinwalker Ranch to become like every fifty one where you 111 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:20,559 have all these tourists and everything coming. And so George was bummed, but 112 00:09:20,559 --> 00:09:24,720 he said, okay, I understand, and so then he talked him into 113 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:28,879 what, at least let me print a book, and I guess that hesitantly 114 00:09:30,159 --> 00:09:35,200 Bigelow agreed for him to write the book with calm and regretted it because what 115 00:09:35,279 --> 00:09:39,120 he feared became the truth that all these people, you know, for years 116 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:43,559 have been trying to get onto the ranch. There's been a lot of issues 117 00:09:43,159 --> 00:09:48,559 even now. Jeremy has a scene where the current owner has guards with guns 118 00:09:48,639 --> 00:09:54,000 to keep people off of, you know, wandering in the area. So 119 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:58,399 so yeah, unfortunately, what had happened what he feared would happen did happen 120 00:09:58,879 --> 00:10:03,000 with the book. But the book, you know, it was a big 121 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:05,480 deal when it came out. But still, you know, books are a 122 00:10:05,519 --> 00:10:11,080 little more limiting as far as exposure of the topic. So I'm hoping that 123 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:16,720 this documentary, because the documentary format is more kind of what people are used 124 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:22,200 to these days, people are used to video that Hopefully this will really skyrocket 125 00:10:22,279 --> 00:10:26,879 and get out there, and this is a good format to do that in 126 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:31,159 because it's very accurate and it's dealing with the original investigators, so really exciting 127 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:35,279 stuff. I think so too, And you know, The interesting part is 128 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:39,039 that the government actually was involved in this study. I mean, that's kind 129 00:10:39,039 --> 00:10:43,440 of one of the reveals it is. Now, this was a reveal. 130 00:10:43,519 --> 00:10:46,840 You and I have been talking about this about how the government was involved with 131 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:50,519 Skinwalker, but we're some of the very few people who are talking about this 132 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:56,360 because this reveal actually happened with George Knapp. George Knapp had posted a story 133 00:10:56,759 --> 00:11:03,879 with some documentation about how, you know, this whole UFO investigation that Louise 134 00:11:03,919 --> 00:11:09,840 Alesando ran at the Pentagon has a history that goes further into another organization, 135 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:16,080 and it was actually this original organization that got that twenty two million dollars that 136 00:11:16,159 --> 00:11:20,279 the New York Times talked about that Alesando's group got, but it really wasn't. 137 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:24,600 Alesando didn't come on board until that twenty two million dollars was essentially gone 138 00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:31,679 and then they because yeah, so they spent they gave him twenty two million 139 00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:35,639 dollars. They and what they investigated was Skinwalker Ranch. So that was the 140 00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:43,919 original investigation. Then they you know that the money began to dwindle until funding 141 00:11:43,039 --> 00:11:46,759 was cut off. And when funding was cut off, that's when about the 142 00:11:46,799 --> 00:11:54,159 time that Alesando took over and because they had limited resources, that's when everything's 143 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:58,960 transferred to just to focus on UFOs as opposed to all of this paranormal eye 144 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:05,399 activity. So it really was originally a real X files where they were looking 145 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:09,600 at you know. And George Knapp revealed this in an article. He got 146 00:12:09,639 --> 00:12:16,639 comments from Harry Reid, and he also shared a document from a Bigelow administrator 147 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:22,799 who wrote about all this weirdness, who wrote, how our original investigation was 148 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:30,600 included Poulter goosts and entities and tunnels and wormholes and all of this really weird 149 00:12:30,759 --> 00:12:35,120 stuff and essentially the weird stuff happening at their ranch. So really interesting, 150 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:39,440 great stuff. So I can't wait for you to see it. Hopefully next 151 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:43,720 time we can talk about you know, your thoughts. Yeah, yeah, 152 00:12:43,759 --> 00:12:46,000 yeah, I'm really I've always you know, after I read the book, 153 00:12:46,039 --> 00:12:52,120 I've been really fascinated in that whole That whole story really is quite amazing, 154 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:58,360 such a hot spot, and it just of such weird, strange, unbelievable 155 00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:03,919 things exactly really makes you wonder if there's somehow, some type of connection between 156 00:13:03,919 --> 00:13:07,360 them all. Yeah, so what else is happening? So what else is 157 00:13:07,399 --> 00:13:11,240 happening? This is important too, is that I don't know. To me, 158 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:16,919 I think the other important news is just Elizondo speaking of him. He 159 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:20,600 has a couple of things out. First of all, they to the Stars 160 00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:24,320 Academy. You're gonna see two things. You're gonna see a video of his 161 00:13:24,399 --> 00:13:31,919 symposium talk, and which is great because I wasn't there and I had heard 162 00:13:31,039 --> 00:13:35,399 some you know, rumbling back and forth, and some people felt it was 163 00:13:35,519 --> 00:13:41,559 boring or it didn't reveal a lot. But I just don't have that impression 164 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:46,799 when I watch it, I see a historic moment or this person who worked 165 00:13:46,799 --> 00:13:50,360 for a secret UFO program when the government said that, you know, they 166 00:13:50,399 --> 00:13:56,559 haven't been interested for decades in the UFO topic. Talking about how the government 167 00:13:56,919 --> 00:14:01,759 tackled the UFO phenomenon and how they categorize the different phenomena in their ways to 168 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:07,480 then investigate, and what they hope to get out of it. I mean, 169 00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:13,120 this is rich, rich, rich information about you know, something remarkable, 170 00:14:13,159 --> 00:14:16,000 a secret UFO program in the government. So I think it's amazing. 171 00:14:16,679 --> 00:14:22,559 He also wrote an article for a website called Medium, which you can also 172 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:24,639 see at the two The Star's website. They've got a link to it, 173 00:14:26,159 --> 00:14:31,120 and this article is how UFOs are a national security threat, but we still 174 00:14:31,159 --> 00:14:35,279 need to share that information with the public. So he kind of gets into 175 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:41,720 why when there's national security threats, the government doesn't want to share that information, 176 00:14:41,759 --> 00:14:46,120 and why they're justified in viewing UFOs as a threat even though they have 177 00:14:46,279 --> 00:14:50,879 very little information about motivations. Just essentially they have to assume that until they 178 00:14:50,919 --> 00:14:56,480 can prove otherwise. But he also gets into the other important discoveries for mankind 179 00:14:56,559 --> 00:15:01,879 that justify, you know, the revealing more information about this. And of 180 00:15:01,879 --> 00:15:07,200 course, if he hadn't had taken the lead, if he hadn't decided to 181 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:13,080 leave that organization and then share publicly what he investigated, we probably still would 182 00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:18,159 not have known that that existed. And so I think a lot of important 183 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:20,720 stuff has come of that. So that's also great, And that's another great 184 00:15:20,799 --> 00:15:24,399 article that I think people need to check out. Yeah yeah, I read 185 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:28,399 that through. It really is. I like the way he makes the parallels 186 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:31,799 between you know, discoveries and inventions. How if they were kept quiet, 187 00:15:33,039 --> 00:15:35,200 you know, how it would stagger you know, society, we would be 188 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:39,559 behind. You know, like what if the person invented the wheel thought it 189 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:46,120 was too much work? Yeah, yeah, I'm that's too Yeah, well 190 00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:50,559 you know that someone else would have been invented eventually, but maybe. Yeah. 191 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:54,000 Well anyway, thanks so much. It's been so glad we've got a 192 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:56,240 hold of you, got a hold of me whatever it was, so, 193 00:15:56,440 --> 00:16:00,720 yes, glad you made it to the show. Yes, I was running 194 00:16:00,759 --> 00:16:07,080 late, no problem at all, you made it. I made it all 195 00:16:07,159 --> 00:16:08,759 right, all right, great talk to you next week. Have fun a 196 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:11,559 Devil's Power. Yes, thank you very much. It's going to be a 197 00:16:11,559 --> 00:16:15,120 lot of fun, and I will have some live video from there, so 198 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:18,200 check out my social media, all right. And I just so that means 199 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:21,360 you're not doing a show live on YouTube this Thursday, Is that right? 200 00:16:21,559 --> 00:16:23,639 Well, I'm going to try to. Actually, there is an event at 201 00:16:23,679 --> 00:16:26,399 that time which is kind of a Q and A, so I'm going to 202 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:30,720 try to and I think it'll just be barring the internet connection. I'm going 203 00:16:30,759 --> 00:16:34,559 to try to do a live show at my regular time and wherever I'm at, 204 00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:37,960 whatever I'm doing, I'll try to talk to the audience a bit and 205 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:41,679 then show them what we're up to, so people will get at least a 206 00:16:41,759 --> 00:16:45,039 little bit of a live look at what we're doing there, all right, 207 00:16:45,039 --> 00:16:51,279 Can you give out the time and where people am Arizona time, which is 208 00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:56,240 aligned with Pacific and you could find that just at the Open Minds production YouTube 209 00:16:56,279 --> 00:16:59,679 page. Right, all right, great, all right, I'll talk to 210 00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:03,759 you next week, tarteen, next week, all right, great, all 211 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:07,839 right, everyone, So our guest. Our guest is James t Abbott. 212 00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:15,680 It is just after eleven pm in England where he is right now staying up 213 00:17:15,839 --> 00:17:19,480 luckily to help us and understand his book, which I think is interesting. 214 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:26,599 It's The Outsider's Guide to UFOs and where he actually talks about an unbiased look 215 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:30,359 at both sides of the UFO debate. And welcome to the show. James, 216 00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:34,119 thanks very much, Martin, thanks very much. Very interesting. Alejandro 217 00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:40,640 there, yes, yes, uh yeah, it's it is an interesting I'm 218 00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:45,640 sure you pay attention, especially since you've had this book come out on you 219 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:48,160 know, basically what is going on in the UFO world. It's kind of 220 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:52,440 a change world and just a you know, just a few months, yeah, 221 00:17:52,839 --> 00:18:00,200 rad radically changed since December. Absolutely right, right, and oh, 222 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:07,559 can you give the audience basically your background and also I remember just reading I 223 00:18:07,559 --> 00:18:12,960 read briefly in your book that you know you've always had an interest in UFOs, 224 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:18,160 and so I want to know what made you have an interest in UFOs 225 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:22,759 to begin with. Yeah, I think well, like most people who are 226 00:18:22,839 --> 00:18:27,039 interested in the subject, I got into it by reading one book, and 227 00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:32,200 that was Donald Kehoe's book on flying Sources, what way way back. That 228 00:18:32,279 --> 00:18:37,319 was in the sixties, And since then I've read most of what's been published 229 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:41,359 about the subject, and it's been a it's been a hobby that I've been 230 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:47,319 fascinated with, along with you know, all of various vandanic and stuff and 231 00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:49,599 so on. So I'm I'm a bit of a weirdo in that sense. 232 00:18:49,839 --> 00:18:56,519 But the youth, the UFO phenomenon, I think is special because there are 233 00:18:57,039 --> 00:19:02,839 there are huge differences between between it and other so called myths, the sort 234 00:19:02,839 --> 00:19:07,240 of thing that David Clark keeps talking about. Um. So, I've read 235 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:11,440 quite a lot of books and a lot of them have really impressed me. 236 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:15,759 And I think the first one that impressed me to the to my socks really 237 00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:19,720 was Edward Ruppel's book. I mean, He's going back again a long long 238 00:19:19,799 --> 00:19:26,559 way, but his honesty and directness in that first book we were refreshing. 239 00:19:27,519 --> 00:19:32,279 Yeah, So I'm actually in the middle of that book right now, listener 240 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:36,920 sent me an original hardcop you found at a book shop. Lucky you. 241 00:19:37,079 --> 00:19:41,920 Yeah, it's a very good book. Yeah, the contents are unbelievable. 242 00:19:41,519 --> 00:19:45,720 Yeah, it's a lot of people say is the the book to read as 243 00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:48,920 far as you have I, as far as UFOs go, at least a 244 00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:52,759 Hundre says that anyway. Yeah, and I'd agree with Alejandrow on that one. 245 00:19:52,839 --> 00:19:56,920 I think it's it's the it's the one oh one of uphos because you 246 00:19:57,440 --> 00:20:03,920 you start there with a guy who started off not really thinking much of the 247 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:11,720 subject and ended up at the end of that first book anyway, reluctantly believing 248 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:15,039 that there was something there, that something needed to be explained. And it 249 00:20:15,079 --> 00:20:18,200 was only at the end of his second book, of course, that he 250 00:20:18,279 --> 00:20:22,119 came to the conclusion that maybe there was nothing there. Oh, I never 251 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:29,920 really knew that. That is fascinating. So you started reading books and is 252 00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:33,839 that Well, I guess I should ask you this, what made you decide 253 00:20:33,839 --> 00:20:37,839 to write this particular book, The Outsider's Guide. Yeah, that's a that's 254 00:20:38,519 --> 00:20:42,000 a story in itself. But but what happened was one night I was at 255 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:48,519 a dinner party and There were about a dozen people there, all of them 256 00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:52,319 friends that I'd known for a long time, and they were talking about various 257 00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:55,920 things, and one of them brought up, just out of the blue, 258 00:20:56,400 --> 00:21:00,799 the fact that he'd read in a newspaper where he lives, which is Manchester 259 00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:06,200 in England, that a local policeman and his colleague had been out driving one 260 00:21:06,279 --> 00:21:11,559 night and had seen a strange object in the sky. And the object was 261 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:18,359 roughly spherical, bright silver, and it was moving pretty fast across the sky, 262 00:21:18,519 --> 00:21:22,960 and then it stopped. And this is what the policeman absolutely blew their 263 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:30,039 minds. This thing stopped in midair and then suddenly shot straight up and disappeared. 264 00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:34,839 The whole thing took about four minutes. They reckon and the newspapers got 265 00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:41,319 hold of the story, and we started talking about it at the dinner party. 266 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:47,400 The fact was that it was so fascinating the reactions of the people around 267 00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:52,640 the table to that sort of story. Some of them were absolutely into it 268 00:21:52,759 --> 00:21:56,640 as I was, and were fascinated, wanted to know all the details, 269 00:21:56,680 --> 00:22:00,319 wanted to know what was happening, who the policemen were, what time night, 270 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:03,880 all of that sort of stuff. But others, about half of the 271 00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:10,319 people around the table immediately said they didn't believe in it, And I remember 272 00:22:10,319 --> 00:22:12,759 saying to one of them, what is it that you don't believe? Because 273 00:22:12,839 --> 00:22:18,119 you know, all that's happened is that somebody has told a story and they 274 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:21,640 say they saw something. Now, why don't you believe them? Would you 275 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:25,880 disbelieve a witness who said he'd seen a robber going into a bank, or 276 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:32,079 would you disbelieve the fact that somebody saw somebody rear end a car? What 277 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:37,079 exactly is that disbelief and disbelief? And about a week later I thought, 278 00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:40,640 well, you know, there are a huge number of people who actually don't 279 00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:48,160 believe in the subject itself. They have a problem coming to terms psychologically with 280 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:55,039 the possibility that there may be something around here that we cannot understand for the 281 00:22:55,079 --> 00:23:00,880 first time in human existence. In many ways, there's a subject and it's 282 00:23:00,039 --> 00:23:08,519 upos, which baffles everybody, and we all tend to take this hysterical laughter 283 00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:14,240 escape route from it. So whatever we don't understand, we laugh at. 284 00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:18,079 Whatever we don't understand we throw rocks at. And this is what UFOs are. 285 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:22,559 So I thought it's time that we wrote a book that tries to put 286 00:23:22,599 --> 00:23:27,400 the subject in a balanced way, and that shows some of the ways that 287 00:23:29,039 --> 00:23:33,519 these stories are real and credible. So the forty stories that I've got in 288 00:23:33,559 --> 00:23:41,720 the book are really about credibility. They're about showing that there are sightings and 289 00:23:41,839 --> 00:23:48,000 events and things going on in the world that are beyond our ken and that 290 00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:53,960 are literally inexplicable in our current understanding. So that's it, and you know, 291 00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:59,640 the rest's history. As they say, yeah, yeah, I think 292 00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:07,359 it's it can be interesting conversation. I can say that I was out in 293 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:11,759 Chicago, I don't know, three or four years ago, and I was 294 00:24:11,839 --> 00:24:15,680 doing I was doing a podcast with some people. I also have an antique 295 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:19,160 and fine art podcast that I've been doing since two thousand and nine, I 296 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:23,200 think, so, so I was doing that out there, and so I 297 00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:26,640 had all these antique dealers, that's all they were. They were into antiques 298 00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:30,559 and collectibles and all that. And so I turned on the recorder after I 299 00:24:30,599 --> 00:24:33,279 did the show with them, and I said, what does everyone here think 300 00:24:33,319 --> 00:24:38,079 about UFOs? I just brought it up, and it was actually really interesting. 301 00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:42,519 I was actually quite surprised. It just seems like when you bring up 302 00:24:42,519 --> 00:24:48,680 the topic and a mixed crowd you'll get mixed answers. But one of the 303 00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:52,599 guys that I thought was very conservative, and I was very surprised to hear 304 00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:56,839 him say, well why not, Why why can't it be happening? You 305 00:24:56,880 --> 00:25:03,920 know, why can't we be being visited by something that we don't understand or 306 00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:08,119 something like that. Whatever you set I was actually surprised. But it is 307 00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:11,880 an interesting topic to bring up because you you know, you're right. Some 308 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:15,480 people laugh at it, some people say, I know, I don't believe 309 00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:18,720 it. A lot of people don't believe it because there's a fear element, 310 00:25:19,319 --> 00:25:23,720 and that's where a lot of laughter comes from too, is a little bit 311 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:30,200 of fear. Yeah, that's absolutely right. So let's go through how did 312 00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:37,039 you dissect some of the forty stories you were talking about in what way and 313 00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:42,039 what approach did you take to them as far as the different angles of people 314 00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:47,880 thinking they're seeing something or believing. So, why don't you kind of explain 315 00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:55,400 how you do that? Yeah? I think I started by saying, which 316 00:25:55,480 --> 00:26:02,559 are the forty most credible sightings of the past seventy years? Which are the 317 00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:07,839 things that cause the most debate and discussion, Which are the things which leave 318 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:15,359 so many questions unanswered and fascinated people. I really wanted people to be able 319 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:19,920 to see that there are there are things here that not only can't be explained, 320 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:26,680 but that are intrinsically fascinating, both in what they say about human beings 321 00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:30,720 and the witnesses concerned, and also to a certain extent, what they say 322 00:26:30,759 --> 00:26:34,400 about what might be around there. But the I mean, there's there's a 323 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:42,119 huge and eclectic bunch of stories ranging from you know, the original Roswell stuff 324 00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:49,400 right the way through to m you know, airline pilots seeing UFOs especially well, 325 00:26:49,599 --> 00:26:55,920 there was one in the UK over the Channel Islands. Yes, I 326 00:26:55,960 --> 00:27:00,599 want to talk about that siding in particular, are the big whole thing there. 327 00:27:00,319 --> 00:27:03,240 I forgot all about our break. Our break is coming up right all 328 00:27:03,279 --> 00:27:06,880 right, everyone, Thanks so much for listening. That's it for the free 329 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:11,240 part of the show. If you want to help us out and support us 330 00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:15,119 for just two dollars a more a month or yearly subscriptions, just go to 331 00:27:15,279 --> 00:27:21,880 podcast ufo dot com and on the upper menu bar you will see all the 332 00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:25,960 options you have once you click on that. So I want to thank people 333 00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:29,920 that help out with the show. Evan for helping out in the background. 334 00:27:30,039 --> 00:27:36,200 We have we have a race over at KGr A Radio, Keith over at 335 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:41,440 the dark Matter Digital Network, and don't forget check out next week withstand Santon 336 00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:45,799 Freeman on site on location. All right, everyone, thanks so much. 337 00:27:45,920 --> 00:28:00,920 Remember to keep your eyes to the sky.