And welcome to you. I'm Mark Willish, your host, and we have
an interesting guest to see. I mean, we have James T. Habit.
He's written a book, The Outsider's Guide to UFOs. Should be an
interesting an interesting time. He's a gentleman who has never belonged to a UFO
group, He's never gone to UFO conference and he's just looking he's looking in
from the outside basically, so I'm excited about that. Now next week,
next week, I am just announcing this part of the show. Next week,
I will be up in New Brunswick and I will be at Stanton Freedman's
home and I'm going to do a video video conference, of video podcast,
whatever you want to call. It's going to be live on YouTube. It's
going to be made into a podcast as usual. And basically it's my farewell
to Stanton Freeman and my thank you to Stanton Freeman for all the work he's
done in the past. He's been on the show many times, and basically
I wanted to make sure that I had him on the show one last time
before we retired, because basically, what he's saying is he's retiring. He's
not giving anyone a hard date, not that I know exactly, so he
may show up now and then, but I'm sending him off for the last
interview that I'm going to do, and I'll be right there with him and
new on Twick. So I want to invite listeners to call in and thank
him if you'd like, and wish him well and all that stuff. So
we should be doing that without any trouble as far as I know, hopefully
everything will work fine. And that's a week from today, So that will
be next week, next Tuesday, at six to eight pm Eastern Standard time,
and so tune in for that we're having. Alejandro Rojas generally does the
news. I contacted him about an hour ago. He said, thanks for
the reminder of all that he's nowhere to be found. I don't know where
he might have been abducted. I'm not sure really what happened. I told
him to call in. I just text him a second ago, asked him
to call in if he if he gets the message in time. But I'm
not sure what happened. Oh, Harry, is he's saying something here?
Maybe he is going to come on. I will hang on just for a
second. So as far as I want to thank everyone that supports the show.
Anyone can do that informations on podcast ufo dot com. We are live
now back on YouTube and on KGr A radio, which we generally are alive.
We had a couple of prerecorded shows, but we will be live again
for the foreseeable future. Hang on just one second, everyone, I'm trying
to get him on and Alejandro and I'm sorry, I'm texting at the same
time. He's ready, so I'm going to add him to the show.
So hold on, everyone, and we'll get him on in just one second.
Here. This is good radio, isn't it okay? All right?
And he does us have some things I know he wants to talk about because
I'm on his show and he was telling me some interesting things. Aljandro,
you made it. There you are? Can you see me? I can
see you. You look like you're in the middle of some type of room
somewhere. Have you been abducted or something? Actually, if you see right
there there is my spaceship. That is a portal to my spaceship. But
I did not scoot it up over here in time. That's all right,
you're here, that's what counts. Yeah, I'm getting ready for that conference
tomorrow. I knew you had to announce something, Yeah, the Devil's Tower
exactly. Yeah, So well hello, and I'm glad to hear better late
than never, as they say. And so yeah, if you're watching on
YouTube, you're seeing some great facial expressions. So you want to talk about
that, and then a couple of other things that are happening in the A
world. Yes, So today has been a very frantic busy day for me
for a couple of reasons. First of all, because I am going to
this conference tomorrow and the rest of the week at Devil's Tower in Wyoming.
So that's a lot of fun and super exciting. And getting there, it's
kind of funny. Even if something isn't too far, if it's very rural,
you know, it takes a long time. So it's going to take
all day to actually get to Gillette, Wyoming, which is just gorgeous.
Luckily, once you land into Wyoming and you get take the drive out there,
it's just absolutely beautiful animals everywhere. It's where the deer and the antelope
play. But this is the other thing that's keeping me busy is that today
was the launch of Hunt for the skin Walker. The movie, so on
iTunes you can now get that. And luckily last weekend I was invited to
Las Vegas for a pre premiere where I got some exclusive videos. So I
had to cut that together and I have. So I've got the video up
on our YouTube, the Open Mind YouTube of my interview with Jeremy, and
I have a couple other pieces and exclusive with Jeremy and George Knapp that Den
of Geek will be posting along with the story. And then next week come
and have George Knapp on the show. And yeah, and then I also
had to get my show up onto YouTube and everything, and I have Chris
O'Brien on. So it's been a really busy morning. So that's why everything.
I was all ready for your show and then I said, you know
what, I'm hungry, and I walk away for a minute and then missed
all of your text messages. That's which there's quite a few, I know,
to get a little obsessive. I'm sorry about that. Really bad words,
just kidding. Well, yeah, so I'll save those. So anyway,
this is I just saw I pre bought that Skinwalker wrench and I just
saw it come up today. You know, you can watch it now,
So I'm really excited to watch it and when you I don't know anyone.
Everyone gets us on iTunes, but I guess there's a lot of extra footage
to yes, like bonus footage. Yeah, lots of bonus footage if you
order it on iTunes. It's a great documentary. So I can tell you
even for those of you who know a lot about Skinwalker or a very familiar
with George Knapp's book, you're going to get information that you're not aware of,
first of all. Second of all, you're all you're going to be
able to see footage that's never been seen before on the ranch. And that's
really exciting too. Some of these stories that they go over, stories you're
familiar with because they're in the book, but to actually see the locations,
to see Colum kellaher who is there at the pre screening, you know,
the lead scientists for Bigelow going over everything. It's it's really really cool.
So I hope this does really well because I hope it kind of puts the
Skinwalker Ranch phenomena on the map, so to speak. So I think it's
important enough study that you know, everybody should know about it, just like
you know George Knapp put area fifty one on the map. Hopefully this will
become a big story like that as well. And it is today number one
on the charts. George just sent me an email. Wow, number one
for documentaries on iTunes today. That is excellent. That is excellent. Why
I had a Jeremy on God was it last week? Yeah, when I
was over in Austria, had Jeremy on and you know, one of the
things we were talking about and I said it multi we said it multiple times
where he said it multiple times, was just hoping that a lot of people
don't make the truck out there and try to get on the ranch. You
know, A funny part of my interview with George is that he said essentially
because my big question was George shot a lot of the footage back in two
thousand and one that's used in this documentary, and like he says, he
actually was planning to make a documentary before the book, and then when he
got around to that point, Bigelow said, no, no, don't do
it. I don't want Skinwalker Ranch to become like every fifty one where you
have all these tourists and everything coming. And so George was bummed, but
he said, okay, I understand, and so then he talked him into
what, at least let me print a book, and I guess that hesitantly
Bigelow agreed for him to write the book with calm and regretted it because what
he feared became the truth that all these people, you know, for years
have been trying to get onto the ranch. There's been a lot of issues
even now. Jeremy has a scene where the current owner has guards with guns
to keep people off of, you know, wandering in the area. So
so yeah, unfortunately, what had happened what he feared would happen did happen
with the book. But the book, you know, it was a big
deal when it came out. But still, you know, books are a
little more limiting as far as exposure of the topic. So I'm hoping that
this documentary, because the documentary format is more kind of what people are used
to these days, people are used to video that Hopefully this will really skyrocket
and get out there, and this is a good format to do that in
because it's very accurate and it's dealing with the original investigators, so really exciting
stuff. I think so too, And you know, The interesting part is
that the government actually was involved in this study. I mean, that's kind
of one of the reveals it is. Now, this was a reveal.
You and I have been talking about this about how the government was involved with
Skinwalker, but we're some of the very few people who are talking about this
because this reveal actually happened with George Knapp. George Knapp had posted a story
with some documentation about how, you know, this whole UFO investigation that Louise
Alesando ran at the Pentagon has a history that goes further into another organization,
and it was actually this original organization that got that twenty two million dollars that
the New York Times talked about that Alesando's group got, but it really wasn't.
Alesando didn't come on board until that twenty two million dollars was essentially gone
and then they because yeah, so they spent they gave him twenty two million
dollars. They and what they investigated was Skinwalker Ranch. So that was the
original investigation. Then they you know that the money began to dwindle until funding
was cut off. And when funding was cut off, that's when about the
time that Alesando took over and because they had limited resources, that's when everything's
transferred to just to focus on UFOs as opposed to all of this paranormal eye
activity. So it really was originally a real X files where they were looking
at you know. And George Knapp revealed this in an article. He got
comments from Harry Reid, and he also shared a document from a Bigelow administrator
who wrote about all this weirdness, who wrote, how our original investigation was
included Poulter goosts and entities and tunnels and wormholes and all of this really weird
stuff and essentially the weird stuff happening at their ranch. So really interesting,
great stuff. So I can't wait for you to see it. Hopefully next
time we can talk about you know, your thoughts. Yeah, yeah,
yeah, I'm really I've always you know, after I read the book,
I've been really fascinated in that whole That whole story really is quite amazing,
such a hot spot, and it just of such weird, strange, unbelievable
things exactly really makes you wonder if there's somehow, some type of connection between
them all. Yeah, so what else is happening? So what else is
happening? This is important too, is that I don't know. To me,
I think the other important news is just Elizondo speaking of him. He
has a couple of things out. First of all, they to the Stars
Academy. You're gonna see two things. You're gonna see a video of his
symposium talk, and which is great because I wasn't there and I had heard
some you know, rumbling back and forth, and some people felt it was
boring or it didn't reveal a lot. But I just don't have that impression
when I watch it, I see a historic moment or this person who worked
for a secret UFO program when the government said that, you know, they
haven't been interested for decades in the UFO topic. Talking about how the government
tackled the UFO phenomenon and how they categorize the different phenomena in their ways to
then investigate, and what they hope to get out of it. I mean,
this is rich, rich, rich information about you know, something remarkable,
a secret UFO program in the government. So I think it's amazing.
He also wrote an article for a website called Medium, which you can also
see at the two The Star's website. They've got a link to it,
and this article is how UFOs are a national security threat, but we still
need to share that information with the public. So he kind of gets into
why when there's national security threats, the government doesn't want to share that information,
and why they're justified in viewing UFOs as a threat even though they have
very little information about motivations. Just essentially they have to assume that until they
can prove otherwise. But he also gets into the other important discoveries for mankind
that justify, you know, the revealing more information about this. And of
course, if he hadn't had taken the lead, if he hadn't decided to
leave that organization and then share publicly what he investigated, we probably still would
not have known that that existed. And so I think a lot of important
stuff has come of that. So that's also great, And that's another great
article that I think people need to check out. Yeah yeah, I read
that through. It really is. I like the way he makes the parallels
between you know, discoveries and inventions. How if they were kept quiet,
you know, how it would stagger you know, society, we would be
behind. You know, like what if the person invented the wheel thought it
was too much work? Yeah, yeah, I'm that's too Yeah, well
you know that someone else would have been invented eventually, but maybe. Yeah.
Well anyway, thanks so much. It's been so glad we've got a
hold of you, got a hold of me whatever it was, so,
yes, glad you made it to the show. Yes, I was running
late, no problem at all, you made it. I made it all
right, all right, great talk to you next week. Have fun a
Devil's Power. Yes, thank you very much. It's going to be a
lot of fun, and I will have some live video from there, so
check out my social media, all right. And I just so that means
you're not doing a show live on YouTube this Thursday, Is that right?
Well, I'm going to try to. Actually, there is an event at
that time which is kind of a Q and A, so I'm going to
try to and I think it'll just be barring the internet connection. I'm going
to try to do a live show at my regular time and wherever I'm at,
whatever I'm doing, I'll try to talk to the audience a bit and
then show them what we're up to, so people will get at least a
little bit of a live look at what we're doing there, all right,
Can you give out the time and where people am Arizona time, which is
aligned with Pacific and you could find that just at the Open Minds production YouTube
page. Right, all right, great, all right, I'll talk to
you next week, tarteen, next week, all right, great, all
right, everyone, So our guest. Our guest is James t Abbott.
It is just after eleven pm in England where he is right now staying up
luckily to help us and understand his book, which I think is interesting.
It's The Outsider's Guide to UFOs and where he actually talks about an unbiased look
at both sides of the UFO debate. And welcome to the show. James,
thanks very much, Martin, thanks very much. Very interesting. Alejandro
there, yes, yes, uh yeah, it's it is an interesting I'm
sure you pay attention, especially since you've had this book come out on you
know, basically what is going on in the UFO world. It's kind of
a change world and just a you know, just a few months, yeah,
rad radically changed since December. Absolutely right, right, and oh,
can you give the audience basically your background and also I remember just reading I
read briefly in your book that you know you've always had an interest in UFOs,
and so I want to know what made you have an interest in UFOs
to begin with. Yeah, I think well, like most people who are
interested in the subject, I got into it by reading one book, and
that was Donald Kehoe's book on flying Sources, what way way back. That
was in the sixties, And since then I've read most of what's been published
about the subject, and it's been a it's been a hobby that I've been
fascinated with, along with you know, all of various vandanic and stuff and
so on. So I'm I'm a bit of a weirdo in that sense.
But the youth, the UFO phenomenon, I think is special because there are
there are huge differences between between it and other so called myths, the sort
of thing that David Clark keeps talking about. Um. So, I've read
quite a lot of books and a lot of them have really impressed me.
And I think the first one that impressed me to the to my socks really
was Edward Ruppel's book. I mean, He's going back again a long long
way, but his honesty and directness in that first book we were refreshing.
Yeah, So I'm actually in the middle of that book right now, listener
sent me an original hardcop you found at a book shop. Lucky you.
Yeah, it's a very good book. Yeah, the contents are unbelievable.
Yeah, it's a lot of people say is the the book to read as
far as you have I, as far as UFOs go, at least a
Hundre says that anyway. Yeah, and I'd agree with Alejandrow on that one.
I think it's it's the it's the one oh one of uphos because you
you start there with a guy who started off not really thinking much of the
subject and ended up at the end of that first book anyway, reluctantly believing
that there was something there, that something needed to be explained. And it
was only at the end of his second book, of course, that he
came to the conclusion that maybe there was nothing there. Oh, I never
really knew that. That is fascinating. So you started reading books and is
that Well, I guess I should ask you this, what made you decide
to write this particular book, The Outsider's Guide. Yeah, that's a that's
a story in itself. But but what happened was one night I was at
a dinner party and There were about a dozen people there, all of them
friends that I'd known for a long time, and they were talking about various
things, and one of them brought up, just out of the blue,
the fact that he'd read in a newspaper where he lives, which is Manchester
in England, that a local policeman and his colleague had been out driving one
night and had seen a strange object in the sky. And the object was
roughly spherical, bright silver, and it was moving pretty fast across the sky,
and then it stopped. And this is what the policeman absolutely blew their
minds. This thing stopped in midair and then suddenly shot straight up and disappeared.
The whole thing took about four minutes. They reckon and the newspapers got
hold of the story, and we started talking about it at the dinner party.
The fact was that it was so fascinating the reactions of the people around
the table to that sort of story. Some of them were absolutely into it
as I was, and were fascinated, wanted to know all the details,
wanted to know what was happening, who the policemen were, what time night,
all of that sort of stuff. But others, about half of the
people around the table immediately said they didn't believe in it, And I remember
saying to one of them, what is it that you don't believe? Because
you know, all that's happened is that somebody has told a story and they
say they saw something. Now, why don't you believe them? Would you
disbelieve a witness who said he'd seen a robber going into a bank, or
would you disbelieve the fact that somebody saw somebody rear end a car? What
exactly is that disbelief and disbelief? And about a week later I thought,
well, you know, there are a huge number of people who actually don't
believe in the subject itself. They have a problem coming to terms psychologically with
the possibility that there may be something around here that we cannot understand for the
first time in human existence. In many ways, there's a subject and it's
upos, which baffles everybody, and we all tend to take this hysterical laughter
escape route from it. So whatever we don't understand, we laugh at.
Whatever we don't understand we throw rocks at. And this is what UFOs are.
So I thought it's time that we wrote a book that tries to put
the subject in a balanced way, and that shows some of the ways that
these stories are real and credible. So the forty stories that I've got in
the book are really about credibility. They're about showing that there are sightings and
events and things going on in the world that are beyond our ken and that
are literally inexplicable in our current understanding. So that's it, and you know,
the rest's history. As they say, yeah, yeah, I think
it's it can be interesting conversation. I can say that I was out in
Chicago, I don't know, three or four years ago, and I was
doing I was doing a podcast with some people. I also have an antique
and fine art podcast that I've been doing since two thousand and nine, I
think, so, so I was doing that out there, and so I
had all these antique dealers, that's all they were. They were into antiques
and collectibles and all that. And so I turned on the recorder after I
did the show with them, and I said, what does everyone here think
about UFOs? I just brought it up, and it was actually really interesting.
I was actually quite surprised. It just seems like when you bring up
the topic and a mixed crowd you'll get mixed answers. But one of the
guys that I thought was very conservative, and I was very surprised to hear
him say, well why not, Why why can't it be happening? You
know, why can't we be being visited by something that we don't understand or
something like that. Whatever you set I was actually surprised. But it is
an interesting topic to bring up because you you know, you're right. Some
people laugh at it, some people say, I know, I don't believe
it. A lot of people don't believe it because there's a fear element,
and that's where a lot of laughter comes from too, is a little bit
of fear. Yeah, that's absolutely right. So let's go through how did
you dissect some of the forty stories you were talking about in what way and
what approach did you take to them as far as the different angles of people
thinking they're seeing something or believing. So, why don't you kind of explain
how you do that? Yeah? I think I started by saying, which
are the forty most credible sightings of the past seventy years? Which are the
things that cause the most debate and discussion, Which are the things which leave
so many questions unanswered and fascinated people. I really wanted people to be able
to see that there are there are things here that not only can't be explained,
but that are intrinsically fascinating, both in what they say about human beings
and the witnesses concerned, and also to a certain extent, what they say
about what might be around there. But the I mean, there's there's a
huge and eclectic bunch of stories ranging from you know, the original Roswell stuff
right the way through to m you know, airline pilots seeing UFOs especially well,
there was one in the UK over the Channel Islands. Yes, I
want to talk about that siding in particular, are the big whole thing there.
I forgot all about our break. Our break is coming up right all
right, everyone, Thanks so much for listening. That's it for the free
part of the show. If you want to help us out and support us
for just two dollars a more a month or yearly subscriptions, just go to
podcast ufo dot com and on the upper menu bar you will see all the
options you have once you click on that. So I want to thank people
that help out with the show. Evan for helping out in the background.
We have we have a race over at KGr A Radio, Keith over at
the dark Matter Digital Network, and don't forget check out next week withstand Santon
Freeman on site on location. All right, everyone, thanks so much.
Remember to keep your eyes to the sky.