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Understand the thinking atheist. It's not
a person, it's a symbol, an

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idea. The population of atheist in
this country is going through the rule,

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rejecting faith, pursuing knowledge, challenging
the sacred. If I tell the truth,

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it's because I tell the truth,
not because I put my hand on

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a book and made a wish and
working together for a more rational world.

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Take the risk of thinking. Feel
so much more happiness, truth, beauty,

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and wisdom will come to you that
way. Assume nothing, question everything,

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and start thinking. This is the
Thinking Atheist podcast hosted by Seth Andrews.

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Fast Approaching on my speaking roster Dallas, Houston, in Tulsa, Kansas

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City. I'll be in dressed in
New York and then Sarnia, Ontario,

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Canada. Details on dates, times, addresses, locations, tickets, whatever

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at Seth andrews dot com slash Events. I have a confession to make.

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I have to be careful because I
don't want this to sound arrogant like I'll

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be honest. I'm confident in what
I do. I'm thirty three year broadcaster.

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I wouldn't do this if I didn't
think I had something to offer.

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And I've developed a style and a
perspective and opinions over those three plus decades.

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Okay, and I'm sure some are
going to hear what I'm about to

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say and say, well, Seth's
just full of himself and he's you know,

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he's total ego. This is what's
going If you know me, please

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accept this in the spirit in which
I offer it up. Okay, And

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people ask me what podcasts do you
listen to? And I don't usually listen

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to podcast I do a lot of
wondering of material you've heard me talk about

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them, and I love those guys, and long form audiobooks. I do

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enjoy audiobooks. I listen to a
lot of true crime and some biography stuff,

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you know. And there is a
podcast I do listen to, smart

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Less. I think that's kind of
a fun show. And it's a nice

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balance between conversational levity and interviewing.
I mean, the questions are really softballs,

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and I get it right. It's
not like you're watching a deep,

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probing interview. This is friendly territory
as celebrities come on and talk about their

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careers. But I follow a lot
of those celebrities on the big screen and

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I enjoy their work, so that's
fun for me. But it's very rare

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that I listen to somebody else's material
or want somebody else's material, especially in

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the atheist movement, because I am
busy producing atheist content. The last thing

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I want to do is listen to
another show debunking the Book of Genesis.

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That's what we do. Oh look, we're going to go after the New

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Testament and deconstruct the Gospels. You
know, We've got a show on that.

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Or we're going to do a cult
show about scientology or whatever. And

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we've done that, and so it's
not of great interest to me. Not

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that it's not valid, but it's
it's just I do it already. So

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I'm looking for other stuff. So
I decided I'm going to sort of scroll

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the podcast verse. My car's got
a little interface, a little media interface,

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and it's got streaming media. I
click that podcast search, and I

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just typed in comedy podcast and true
crime, and I think I did one

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horror movie podcast, like a fan
podcast, because I love horror movies.

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Those who know me listen to ghost
Stories. You know, I've produced a

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ghost Stories audio book. So I'm
gonna dip my toe into the waters and

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within five minutes, I wanted to
shove my face through the windshield. I

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mean, it's a mine field when
you're producing a broadcast, a difference between

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sharing interesting anecdotes and parts of your
personal life that other people can relate to.

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In fact, in radio we call
them a relate as a little behind

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the scene stuff going on here,
I'll pull back the curtain. But you

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know, if you're talking about something
other people can relate to, even if

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it's a personal anecdote, or if
it's fun or interesting, there goes in

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a bizarre, entertaining direction, that's
a journey worth taking. And it's okay

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if it's a digression from the subject
at hand. Hell, you've listened to

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me before I've started the theme of
a show. I'll go off on a

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bunny trail, you know. In
twelve fifteen minutes later, I have to

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pull myself back back to the topic
that we were supposed to do the theme

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of the show. I'm guilty of
that. But this is the stuff I

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was hearing. And it literally screamed, we want to make you drive off

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of the bridge just to end this. That's what I was hearing. Stuff

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like this, Hey, Bob's in
the studio today, Hi Bob, Hi

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Steve. Bob's wearing his favorite green
shirt today. You love that shirt.

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I love this shirt. You love
the color green, don't you. Oh

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yeah, I have green shirts,
and I've got green shoes and some green

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socks, even green socks. Wow. You know it's nine months till Saint

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Patrick's Day. You don't have to
wear green. It's okay for every day

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it's Saint Patrick's Day. For me. You love the color red. Oh

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yeah, stop shut up. Nobody
cares like if you're going to tell me

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the green shirt story, that shit
better go somewhere you can tell. I'll

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take the green shirt journey with you. If you have a destination that I

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can relate to that's entertaining, compelling, funny, whatever, But I love

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my green shirt. It just went
on and on and oh it's another trap

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that some broadcasters fall into. This
was huge in FM radio, and I

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was guilty myself when I first started. We call them the pukers, and

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that is when you're not talking to
an audience, you're talking at them.

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So you go on and you are
trying to sound like what you think or

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radio announcer sounds like. And I
was guilty for about two or three years.

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You punctuate the consonants in these weird
ways, like, hey, Q,

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what oh seven? Thanks so much
for listening today, Gonna be a

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great day, chance of showers by
the weekend, could be stormy on Sunday.

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Done forget to be listening tomorrow morning
to the secret song of the day

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at seven twenty you could win a
brand new car. You hear that you're

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punching the syllables because that's what radio
disc jockeys are supposed to sound like.

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You know, we try to emulate
that Scott Shannon counting down the top forty

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songs of the nation. Yes,
that's what DJ sound like. And you

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become this homogenized, vanilla, instantly
replaceable, robotic kind of puker. And

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I tried that for a while until
I finally came to my senses and realized

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that I need to be speaking to
people instead of talking at them. It's

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okay to have a personality of your
own. You can be professional without being

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some sort of a like a puker. Right, And a lot of these

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podcasts I'm scrolling through and the role
kind of sounded like this, and they've

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all got that canned laughter. They're
laughing much too hard at stuff that's not

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that funny. Shut the hell up, Shut the hellop stop it. I'm

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just saying the comedy podcasts. I've
come to the point in my life when

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one of the most terrifying things I
hear from someone is, hey, they've

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scheduled a great comedian. Somebody asked
me if I want to go out on

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a double day with Natalie and we're
gonna go to the comedy club. I

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usually just weasel my way out sticky
stand up comedy. Everybody's like so and

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so, they're so funny, such
and such, they're hysterical. I have

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this comedian and I'll go, you
know, look him up on Amazon,

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Primer, Netflix, and I stare
at the screen like I'm reading stereo instructions.

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I know comedy is subjective, right, everybody's comedy frequency is going to

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be different. But I think as
I'm getting older, shit is becoming less

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and less funny. Terry Gilliam of
Money Python Fame has said the same.

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He said, as you age,
you find yourself laughing less about jokey type

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stuff because there are much fewer surprises. You've heard the punchlines before, you've

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heard the stick before. And the
secret to humor really is surprise, right,

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If you see it coming, it's
one thing. But if you're surprised

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and it's comical, you laugh.
The secret to humor is surprised. And

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more and more I find myself less
surprised. And as I'm listening to the

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comedy podcast, you know who's laughing
the host and co host at each other

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over the dumbest, laziest shit you
have ever heard? Yeah, yeah,

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ah, stop it, stop talking, stop it. So here I am.

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And if I have an opinion about
this, people think, oh,

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Seth thinks he's all that, thinks
he's better than everybody else when it comes

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to podcasting. Hell no, I
think you can be pretty good at what

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you do, but also know there's
a ton of people better than you who

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could do it better than you.
Some people talk about and I'm so grateful

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they enjoy listening to the narrated audible
version of my books, and I will

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shamelessly shill for those audio books any
chance I get. Look for Seth Andrews

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narrator audible dot com. I've narrated
ten books over the past twelve years.

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Somebody was saying that d converted my
autobiography kind of mirrored their own experience,

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and as they were driving, they
were listening to the audio book and it

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was a companion for them, and
it was an encouragement to them, and

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they appreciated the polish of it.
And I can receive that and say thank

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you, knowing that there are many
many superior audiobook narrators out there, but

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I know how to do it.
And i'd like to think I know how

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to podcast. I don't know.
And by going off on this random I

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guilty of the same thing that I've
been accusing other people of doing on their

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own podcast. People are screaming,
right now, get to the point,

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sath, get to the point.
Who wants to hear about your personal opinions

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and private life? Blah blah blah'd
somebody complained the other day I was telling

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stories about my dogs, Linus and
Gracie. An unless I do an atheist

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podcast to hear about your dogs,
Okay, that's valid. I see them

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as personal anecdotes that connect us host
an audience, friend to friends, and

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it's interesting when I go out on
the road and we get a chance to

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actually stand next to each other and
talk to each other that people have taken

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my family into theirs in that amazing
way. Hey tell Natalie we missed her.

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I wish you'd be able to bring
her with you. How are Linus

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and Gracie and cats? How is
Linus's foot healing up? I mean,

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I don't know. It's it's a
connective thing. It's an intangible it's hard

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to really qualify. It's different than
man I should like wearing my green shirt.

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This is my lucky shirt. I
don't know. I'm sorry, I'm

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sorry. Is that arrogant? Am
I being an egomaniac? Or is it

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confidence? The confidence that comes with
years of experience. I don't think you

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should do something unless you feel like, let me say it this way.

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I don't think you should attempt to
do something in a professional way or a

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formal way unless you feel like you
can pull it off. Like if there

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is a comedian who was genuinely funny, there's going to be a time when

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they take the stage for the first
time, it's amateur night or whatever,

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and they want to go out and
they have something to offer. You never

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want to kill the dream. You
never want to kill the dream of someone

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who may be learning by doing just
tipping their foot in the water. But

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there are some people who have new
business opening the microphone and attempting to communicate

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with other people in this format.
This is not their gift. Their gifts

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are over here, over there there. Look, you're much better at that

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than I am than anybody else in
your region. Is that's what you should

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be doing this? No? No, no, no, is that arrogant?

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I hope not. Anyway, I
was listening to I tried listening to

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podcasts, and you know, there's
like, I forgot how many podcasts.

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Aren't there like nine hundred thousand plus
podcasts in the world, So I know

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there's a ton of great ones,
and I only tried out five and a

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ram dam search. Do you have
a podcast beside this one that you like?

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Leave it in the common section,
let me know what it is.

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I'm most interested in real stuff.
I do like true crime. I do

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enjoy a good horror story, although
most of them that are told. I

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don't know why. Everybody feels like
they have to sound like John Houseman at

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the beginning of the fog when they's
sitting over the campfire, you know,

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and all they found was an iron
hook. No, it's not it's not

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interested in that, And who chooses
the music for those? Why the theremin?

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It's the year twenty twenty three.
Somebody's telling a story and all you

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hear is that's not scary to me? Not scary. Sometimes less is more.

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Sometimes just the voice of a storyteller
is a and then your brain connects

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the dots and paints the picture and
fills in the blanks. Good storytelling actually

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in age as you you're not just
a spectator. You become a participant in

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that way. Is there a podcast
that does that when it tells fictional horror

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stories? I welcome your opinions,
your contributions and suggestions in the comments box,

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and I welcome your calls. Nine
one nine Roger, thanks for calling.

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What's on your mind? Hey?
Hey, I just wanted to tell

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you. First off, I really
appreciate everything you do. I've read all

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your books, listen to your podcasts. Thank you, really love your Paul

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Harvey stuff. Thank you. But
no, my question to you is is

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just what do you think of Christopher
Hristians would think what we live in today?

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People being so easily offended and as
much as he came back with his

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read retorts and such I just wonder
how the reception he would get nowadays.

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Well, he would be as horrified
by the insanity of the world as you

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and I are. You know,
he was a free speech absolutist. I

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remember one speech he gave where he
said, you know, you go into

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a crowded theater and screaming fire,
and that is protected. I'm not quite

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there. I'm not quite the free
speech absolutist. I think there is a

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social contract, and there are issues
of safety, etc. And it's messy.

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But he was such a reasonable voice
and an encyclopedic rolodex of knowledge about

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history and religion that you know,
if he saw the rise the resurgence of

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the theocrats and the bigots, etc. You know, I think he would.

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I would love to hear what he
had to say. I think I'd

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like to hear how he strung the
words together. He had that gift for

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elocution, didn't he. Man,
he's really did it. Just can listen

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to it over and over again and
always walk away with feeling a little less

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than than you did before. Right, I always felt dumber because he was

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so freaking smart, you know.
I always felt it like I'm an idiot

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and he's got this, And I
think the recall was one of the things

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that struck me the most because I
can't remember why I walked in this room.

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Oh where did I put my wallet? Where are my keys? What

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was I saying? I can't remember? And yet he would be able to

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draw upon the history of the world
and do so immediately without notes, And

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it's just it was remarkable, perfect
recall. Yeah, after having much to

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drink. Right on many accounts,
right, I think he found many things

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in this world offensive. He was
offended by Islam's assault on women, he

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was offended by Christianity's assault on science, reason, human rights, common sense,

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good sense. But I get what
you're saying. I think he didn't

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want to live in a world where
people used, i'm offended to insulate themselves

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from analysis and criticism. And I
totally agree. And I do find there

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are people in tribes of all shapes
and stripes, including the atheist movement,

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who do like to play the offense
card. Is a kind of conversation stopper.

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Right, I'm offended. I think
that infantilizes some people, not all,

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certainly, I think there are things
we can be offended about, but

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there are some people they broadcast their
buttons, and then when other people they

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allow other people to push them,
they blame everybody else. There's a level

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of individual responsibility. I think that
must be at least a part of that

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equation. And some don't want to
talk about that, but I think Christopher

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Hitchens certainly would. Absolutely, absolutely, But I just wanted to thank you

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for having you're doing them. Keep
up at what you work, you're doing

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00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:41,400
them. You are appreciated. Thanks
so much. Take care, we'll see

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a have a doing. I never
got a chance to meet Christopher Hitchens,

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shake his hand and tell them about
the time I was watching that debate video

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on YouTube and how it propelled me
into this journey. I wish I could

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have rita at three five two high. What's going on? I'm a philosopher

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myself, and I have my own
YouTube channel, and I've recently been like

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promoting and talking about two philosophies I
think you may know about them, anti

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natalism and ethylism. Aren't familiar with
these? I really am not familiar.

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Can you explain? Anti natalism is
the philosophical position where it's immoral and unethical

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and theological for anyone to have children
for multiple different reasons, and there's different

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philosophers with different arguments, but the
asymmetry argument is there is guaranteed pain coming

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into existence and no pain by not
being born. Also, there's the consent

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arguments, where you can't ask the
unborn for consent to being born, so

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it's in a position an agolis to
rape. So every one of us is

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a victim of being born without consents. And this is what unifies all mankind

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under one banner. And it's in
line with Buddhism, where life is suffering

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and it's promoting utility by continuing the
human projects. That's anti nuedalism and ethylism

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is the same thing, but just
including the animals. Have we spoken before,

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No, we have not. I
have never called before, and I

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only recently discovered your podcast because of
one of my viewers told me about it.

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I had a conversation like that,
a little bit like this years ago.

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I'm getting a flash of it now. I don't see reproduction as rape.

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I don't see it as a consent
issue. I think you know it's

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explained evolutionarily. You're right that people
don't choose to be born, but framing

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it as a kind of violation to
me, I don't buy that. What

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you position if you're unable to ask
the girl who's drunk in the alley for

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consent and you proceed to have sex
with her body. If you cannot ask

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consent, it's an imposition. Since
the unborn are not able to be asked,

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it falls under the imposition of not
getting consent. An evolution squanders suffering

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only so the advancement of the intelligence
can be used as a better scheming tool.

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There is no need to make need, and that's all a human being

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does when they're alive. Hang on, So the scheming of the advancement of

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the intelligence or what was I hearing? I just want to make sure I

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understand the human being is using their
intelligence to get the heroine instead of asking

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how to stop wanting the heroine.
If you don't make a person, they

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can't be an addict. And so
all human life, in all organic life

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is is just consumption and reproduction for
no end and no purpose. Okay,

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well, so we're just figuring out
new what. I just disagree with your

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premise. First of all, the
idea that the cost benefit of the suffering,

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even though it sucks, the pain
of childbirth, etc. Is horrible,

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and I would like to remove that
from the reproductive process. The cost

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benefit of that is not just net
suffering. The person who is born then

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has many opportunities to be alive,
to breathe the air, to fall in

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love, to set and achieve goals, to fulfill dreams. There are so

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many positives they wouldn't be deprived.
You. I know you've accessed through a

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computer right now, right like you've
a monitor right next to you. Yeah,

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can you pull up David Bennettar's asymmetry
arguments. It's on Google Images,

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and that will help me its pain. I will after the show. I'll

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read the argument after the show.
What I'm interested in though, is this,

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I mean, would you rather that
you would not have been born because

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you were not given consent to be
born? Book? That's the title of

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00:23:12,039 --> 00:23:17,279
Benetar's book, It's better never to
have been. And I am one of

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the people who wish I had been
aborted or swallowed by my mom. I

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wish I was aborted. I hate
my life and I hate the human race.

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Well, that grieves me because I
think there is much. I can't

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00:23:30,759 --> 00:23:34,839
tell you nothing. I'm going to
finish this, Okay, I can't tell

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00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:40,480
you what your position or opinion on
humanity should be. This is your journey

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00:23:40,519 --> 00:23:44,839
to take on your terms, and
so your opinion certainly belongs to you.

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But I'm really convinced that your perspective
on being alive, on humanity, on

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00:23:52,079 --> 00:23:56,839
the opportunity to breathe the air,
and love and all those things that are

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part of our experience, you know, they're worth having and worth knowing.

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00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:03,920
And I'm thankful I was born,
and I think there were so many millions,

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00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:07,799
if not billions, who feel the
same. I understand your point of

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00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:11,119
view, and I understand what you're
saying, But this right here, I'm

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00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:12,279
gonna make. I guess I'll make
one more point because I know you have

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more callers. But the difference between
what go ahead? No, No,

290
00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:19,160
go ahead, Okay, I just
go rush, and I know you know

291
00:24:19,279 --> 00:24:23,279
no, I can take some time
here, go ahead, okay. These

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00:24:23,319 --> 00:24:30,480
are important. So anti natalism and
ethalism are about stopping birth, preventing new

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00:24:30,519 --> 00:24:34,759
people from coming here. Me and
you seth We're already here, so we

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00:24:34,799 --> 00:24:41,440
can make the best of it.
The difference between anti natalism and etholism is

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00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:47,000
the third step, which is called
the promortalism, and it's the human right

296
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:51,799
to die, which no one is
talking about, where it's like there's no

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00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:56,079
euthanasia censors, where it's like I
can't just go and check out because suicide

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00:24:56,160 --> 00:25:00,599
is taboo. And I have a
friend who is fellow philosopher and had his

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00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:07,160
own channel and he took his own
life because the philosophy there was no arguments

300
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:11,799
against it. So it's like only
the good die young. It's better to

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00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:15,440
live a shorter life than a longer
life. In the argument logic is this,

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00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:22,640
the longer one exists, the more
suffering they will continue to experience and

303
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cause others. They will cause others
to suffer, and they will experience more

304
00:25:26,319 --> 00:25:32,279
themselves. So the shorter life is
the better life because of the pain they'll

305
00:25:32,319 --> 00:25:38,519
experience and the negatives. One hammer
to the jaw is more detrimentally a bad

306
00:25:38,559 --> 00:25:44,759
thing than one makeout session. The
negatives always as the good. All right,

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00:25:44,839 --> 00:25:48,759
So I'm a fifty five year old
man. I'm guessing I'm older than

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00:25:48,839 --> 00:25:52,240
you are. Let's say I make
it just seventy. Are you saying that

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00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:59,039
I am I'm cheating goodness by existing
for a longer period of time. The

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00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:02,759
longer I am a live the more
damage I'm doing, it's a bad thing.

311
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:06,920
I wouldn't say cheating. That wouldn't
be has to be the right term.

312
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:10,079
But I think there is a term. I'm not sure what it is,

313
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:15,319
but it's some mood or emotion that
people feel where it's like they've already

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00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:19,640
they think or they've felt that they've
already experienced every emotion that life has to

315
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:25,039
offer, and it's just a repeat
of the other ones. So an orgasm,

316
00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:29,440
a cheeseburger, a soda on a
hot day, or a handshake or

317
00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:33,279
a high five, it's the same
things repeating themselves cyclically over and over,

318
00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:40,000
and humanity goes to these cycles of
times and extinctions where they forget And right

319
00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:44,559
now we're on this cusp of flirting
within artificial intelligence, and we're going to

320
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:48,480
wipe ourselves out. And the trick
for humanity to figure out how to stop

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00:26:48,519 --> 00:26:52,960
this is to leave records that survived
the cataclysm, and so far the only

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00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:56,079
things that survive are like the pyramids
or like the Eastern Islands, and no

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00:26:56,160 --> 00:27:00,319
one knows how they were made.
It's like, obviously it was advanced technology,

324
00:27:00,599 --> 00:27:04,559
and it's like we're trying to figure
out how to stop this endless cardinal

325
00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:11,000
fucking flesh prison of suffering. Well, I mean they're fact look and I

326
00:27:11,079 --> 00:27:14,640
am. I think I'm going to
draw this. What I don't want to

327
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:18,240
do is is dry the listeners crazy, as they're probably clawing at the at

328
00:27:18,279 --> 00:27:22,720
the speakers at the podcast. But
yeah, that's like the thing is the

329
00:27:22,799 --> 00:27:26,359
free speech, Like, like Christopher
Inshon said, free speech. I'm a

330
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:32,880
free speech absolutist, and the human
right to die is something that our lawmakers

331
00:27:33,039 --> 00:27:37,759
need to fucking acknowledge that we need
to taboo suicide. We treat suicide people

332
00:27:37,799 --> 00:27:41,480
like they're mentally ill. And I'm
mentally ill. I have schizophrenia, but

333
00:27:41,559 --> 00:27:47,079
I'm still coherent and logical and competent
to have these conversations, okay, And

334
00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:52,160
I'm not saying that we all need
to kill ourselves, but I would press

335
00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:53,920
the red button to blow up the
earth if I could, because all right,

336
00:27:56,480 --> 00:28:00,799
right, the fact that you've been
very transparent about your on struggles with

337
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:04,319
mental illness, and I don't want
to in any way betray that or minimize

338
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:08,599
that. I just think you and
I definitely I'm going to I'd like to

339
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:15,200
finish this sentence. I think you
and I simply disagree that we are merely

340
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:19,720
processing on the hamster wheel of emotion, and once we have experienced those emotions,

341
00:28:19,759 --> 00:28:26,519
repeating them becomes this banal exercise,
this redundant thing that renders everything meaningless.

342
00:28:26,759 --> 00:28:33,839
I don't think joy felt yesterday disqualifies
the joy I feel today or seek

343
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:38,319
tomorrow. I don't think the love
that I had enjoyed yesterday will negate or

344
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:44,039
nullify or diminish the love I feel
today or tomorrow. And I think life

345
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:48,839
is a wonderful, beautiful thing for
a great many people, and so many

346
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:52,400
of us would like to extend that
as long as we can. It doesn't

347
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:56,519
mean we seek eternal life through AI, Heaven, etc. Which would render

348
00:28:56,599 --> 00:29:00,519
everything meaningless. We know we're on
the close. There's a sense of urgency,

349
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:06,599
but you know, this idea that's
being born against our will is kind

350
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:11,039
of a form of rape, and
it's all suffering, and I wish I

351
00:29:11,079 --> 00:29:15,119
could blow up the world. That
to me is a tragic position. It's

352
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:18,839
an unfortunate point of view. And
it's my hope that you will be able

353
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:22,880
to see an extract real joy and
meaning out of being alive, because this

354
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:26,960
is the only ploth we have Okay, Rita, are you closing off now

355
00:29:27,039 --> 00:29:30,799
or that I don't want to have
another point? Is our goodbye? I'll

356
00:29:30,799 --> 00:29:32,799
think of bye if you're saying godby
too, I don't want to have another

357
00:29:32,799 --> 00:29:34,640
point. If you hear that was
it? If you would, I feel

358
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:41,200
like this is probably a good closing
chapter point for the call. Okay,

359
00:29:41,319 --> 00:29:45,119
respectfully, No, respectfully, I
appreciate your position. We stand apart on

360
00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:48,000
this, but it's something that you've
given our listeners to chew on and we'll

361
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:52,000
see what happens. Okay, Okay, thank you for having my call.

362
00:29:52,079 --> 00:29:53,960
Yeah, I appreciate it. I
mean, there are some things I hear

363
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:59,519
in that call that you know,
I hate people or I hate humanity.

364
00:30:00,119 --> 00:30:03,920
To make sure I'm remembering that correctly, I hate being alive. And of

365
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:07,799
course, when he references his own
struggles with schizophrenia, etc. You've got

366
00:30:07,799 --> 00:30:11,920
to be very careful. I'm going
to make sure that I'm not at all,

367
00:30:11,319 --> 00:30:18,079
I don't know, building an argument
on or unnecessarily highlighting or exposing someone

368
00:30:18,119 --> 00:30:22,640
who may be at a place where
cognitively we are not in a healthy place.

369
00:30:23,039 --> 00:30:29,279
You know. I mean, that's
very that's touchy. But his sentences

370
00:30:29,319 --> 00:30:33,759
were coherent. His point was made
certainly with passion and conviction. What do

371
00:30:33,799 --> 00:30:37,559
you think I think life's beautiful or
can be beautiful. I'd rather be alive

372
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:44,559
than not. I'm thankful I was
born. I think connecting and living and

373
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:48,759
loving and dreaming are amazing, wonderful
things, and I'm every day grateful to

374
00:30:48,799 --> 00:30:52,599
be able to experience them. And
it's my wish that other people would feel

375
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:56,880
the same as well. You know, and I certainly hope Rita finds that

376
00:30:56,240 --> 00:31:03,680
fulfillment, love and joy in his
own life. Your perspective on some of

377
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:14,279
this and whatever else is on your
mind, we'll talk more next. We

378
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:17,359
get a chance to tell a lot
of stories on this show, and I'm

379
00:31:17,359 --> 00:31:22,799
thankful for that. But I have
a second podcast which really feeds the storyteller

380
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:26,160
in me. I get a chance
to tell five minutes stories, true stories

381
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:33,000
about stuff. Something may have happened
last month or hundreds of years ago.

382
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:38,400
It could be true crime or celebrity
trivia or weird news to something bizarre,

383
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:45,599
interesting stuff that occasionally might blow your
mind. So subscribe on all major podcast

384
00:31:45,759 --> 00:31:56,359
apps. True Stories with Seth Andrews
Bryce at six one a tie. Thanks

385
00:31:56,359 --> 00:32:00,319
for calling. What's On your mind. Hi, So I've been dealing with

386
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:07,720
my fiance's grandmother for some time will
both of us have, obviously, and

387
00:32:07,319 --> 00:32:15,000
she posts some very boring on disturbing
things on Facebook. Here's a prime example.

388
00:32:15,119 --> 00:32:22,160
Here's a post from back in December, Santa Claus not welcome here that

389
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:27,680
includes his eight reindeer, Rudolph two
and his elves. They are a big

390
00:32:27,839 --> 00:32:35,400
lie themselves. Christmas is to honor
Jesus and that alone is what should please

391
00:32:35,519 --> 00:32:40,279
us. Only Jesus had to die, but not to spread the Santelli.

392
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:46,440
Jesus said, he is the truth. That is what to teach our youth.

393
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:52,440
It sounds a lot like what I've
heard in fundamentalist Christian cultures that Santa,

394
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:58,519
the story of Santa, cheats the
Jesus narrative that they believe is the

395
00:32:58,559 --> 00:33:02,039
core of Christmas. So there's nothing
really surprising there. What is it that

396
00:33:02,119 --> 00:33:06,839
you want to accomplish? Are you
asking that? If you should respond or

397
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:14,599
intervene somehow more or less. We've
tried to disengage a lot lately, but

398
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:20,400
she just really lashes out over Facebook, because that's really else she has at

399
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:24,960
this point. But it's not just
the direct correlation with Fanta and the Christmas

400
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:34,279
season. It's anything that could possibly
be used as an idol to draw attention

401
00:33:34,319 --> 00:33:39,519
away from Jesus. So she posts
about the tooth Fairy, the Easter Bunny.

402
00:33:39,599 --> 00:33:45,480
These are lies. We shouldn't lie
again, the irony. But no,

403
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:51,720
she's apparently I don't know if she'd
been diagnosed with schizophrenia, but there

404
00:33:51,799 --> 00:33:58,039
is a point long time ago bipolar
when they attempted to medicate her for that

405
00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:02,680
and apparently didn't go as well as
she had helped, and she's been long

406
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:09,199
unmedicated. She doesn't think she has
a problem. So we're talking about someone

407
00:34:09,199 --> 00:34:15,599
who is expressing a fundamentalist faith and
her own opinions about Santa on her own

408
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:21,960
page. She also may be suffering
from some kind of a mental illness of

409
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:25,320
some kind and it bothers you,
and you would like to see her rescued.

410
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:30,840
Yeah, I'd say that's certainly a
good way of putting in. My

411
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:37,880
opinion is probably for some might be
controversial, But I've got fundamentalist religious relatives

412
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:44,239
that post this kind of screed on
their own pages. Doesn't affect my life

413
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:49,639
one bit. In fact, the
mute or unfriend button has actually served me

414
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:53,679
quite well, this is their space, whether it's wacky or not. It's

415
00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:59,920
their Facebook page, and I can
decide to follow or not. The odd

416
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:04,400
are pretty long that you're going to
be able to go and create a complete

417
00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:10,079
mind position change in this person,
especially if this delusion is linked to some

418
00:35:10,199 --> 00:35:15,039
kind of mental illness, schizophrenia or
otherwise. I get that it bothers you,

419
00:35:15,679 --> 00:35:22,320
but I think trying attempting to change
this person, I think that's probably

420
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:27,559
one step forward and about ten steps
back for your own peace of mind,

421
00:35:27,639 --> 00:35:31,239
I just consider unfollowing and getting on
with your life. That's my two cents.

422
00:35:31,639 --> 00:35:37,639
Yeah, I think that's some solid
vice stuff and definitely take it into

423
00:35:37,639 --> 00:35:40,679
consideration at the very least. I
don't want to sound cruel in this sense,

424
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:47,519
but it's bordering on amusing some of
the things she posts. I get

425
00:35:47,519 --> 00:35:52,440
it myself, have you know.
I think we all have the fantasy of

426
00:35:52,519 --> 00:35:57,000
rescue, and there are some who
can be rescued, but it's situational.

427
00:35:57,159 --> 00:36:05,440
I think you look at her age
capacities and on what form or format would

428
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:07,800
you be successful. It ain't going
to be by commenting on Facebook. I

429
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:12,400
guarantee you that. So you know, if you see a window of opportunity

430
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:16,920
for a meaningful discussion. I certainly
would never discourage that, but committing yourself

431
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:22,559
to changing her, you know,
that's a place where madness lies. Okay,

432
00:36:22,119 --> 00:36:27,400
all right, I really appreciate the
advice up and will definitely take it.

433
00:36:28,079 --> 00:36:31,159
Take it or leave it one guy's
perspective, hang in there. Thanks

434
00:36:31,199 --> 00:36:35,239
for Colin. Appreciate you, Appreciate
you. Take care. I see you.

435
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:39,760
I got a relative and it's all
conspiracy. I mean it's the typical

436
00:36:40,199 --> 00:36:49,960
one world government and the Jews and
George Sorrows and COVID conspiracy and satellite tracking

437
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:57,039
and just the wankiest shit. I
swear someone passed away on Natalie's family tree,

438
00:36:57,719 --> 00:37:00,880
a woman of eighty who had lived
a wonderful life, who had heart

439
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:07,599
attack and died suddenly, and someone
else in the family. Their first question

440
00:37:07,679 --> 00:37:15,840
when they called had they gotten the
vaccine? Meaning they believed that COVID vaccine

441
00:37:15,199 --> 00:37:22,960
had killed her. Now, I
will counter that publicly, But will I

442
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:28,400
commit myself to attempting to change this
person's mind? No, No, it's

443
00:37:28,519 --> 00:37:35,559
rare. I'm working on a speech
that talks about identity beliefs and how so

444
00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:38,719
often when you and I try to
bring data points and they don't work,

445
00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:44,320
and people not only don't change their
minds or they're not curious, but they

446
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:47,599
actually doubled down and get pissed off. Why does that happen? We get

447
00:37:47,639 --> 00:37:55,280
into in grouping, social identities,
communities, group think, and how there

448
00:37:55,519 --> 00:38:01,800
is an emotional bond that is created
two ideas and two others of like ideas,

449
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:06,360
people who validate us and all humans
can be guilty of it. We

450
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:13,559
get into the COVID communities and the
anti mask communities, and the flat earth

451
00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:20,679
communities and the wellness communities, you
know. And so anyway, I've been

452
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:23,880
kind of nibbling away at that something
I'm probably going to launch when I travel

453
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:30,199
in the fall. I've got so
it looks like an international area code of

454
00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:35,320
forty four. Alexis, Are you
there? Yes, I'm here as thanks

455
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:38,880
for calling. Where are you calling
from? I'm calling from Glasgow, Scotland.

456
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:43,440
Wonderful, It's so great to have
you. What's on your mind?

457
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:51,760
Alexis anti vaccination movement and how how
can somebody be anti vax and this day

458
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:55,960
and age, it just flab augusts
me, don't understand it, And also

459
00:38:55,960 --> 00:39:04,800
flab augusts me is se on newspools
are entertainment programs, say daytime television,

460
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:10,079
if they're talking about health and specifically
vaccinations, and then they'll bring on doctor

461
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:15,519
and then they'll have some celebrity.
I've got an example to tell you.

462
00:39:15,519 --> 00:39:21,039
Years ago, on a brit daytime
TV program called This Morning, they were

463
00:39:21,079 --> 00:39:27,079
talking about the vaccination for young teenage
girls against the human papaloma virus, which

464
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:31,519
causes sur vical cancer. So they
had on two doctors to practicing medical doctors,

465
00:39:32,119 --> 00:39:38,760
and then they had odd to counteract
these doctors arguments an ex glamor model

466
00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:45,119
who just happened to have teenage daughters, and I just couldn't believe it that

467
00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:51,280
it dis astounded me. I understand
your concern. It's hard. There seems

468
00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:54,599
to be a pride in resisting science. One of the arguments I've heard is

469
00:39:54,639 --> 00:39:59,519
well, science is always changing.
Science used to say this was true,

470
00:39:59,519 --> 00:40:02,920
and then it changed and now it
says that is true. Or it's anecdotal

471
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:07,440
I knew someone who got vaccinated and
the next day they were sick as a

472
00:40:07,519 --> 00:40:14,159
dog. Or it's a correlation causation
argument. We get into social in grouping.

473
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:17,159
Look at all the people who agree
with me they don't trust vaccines either.

474
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:22,559
There's a personal freedom angle where they've
decided, you know, you're not

475
00:40:22,599 --> 00:40:25,800
going to tell me, you're not
going to require me to get a vaccine.

476
00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:30,679
No, no, no, My
freedom expression will be one of resistance.

477
00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:34,800
There's a hundred gears in the machine, all of them frustrated. And

478
00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:37,519
I remember talking to Karasena Marie about
this, and she had a great point

479
00:40:37,519 --> 00:40:44,320
about the absence of collectivist values,
this idea of social responsibility. What can

480
00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:50,039
I do to keep other people safe, even potentially to minimize harm and the

481
00:40:50,119 --> 00:40:52,880
loss of life? How can I
help? That? Attitude seems to be

482
00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:57,320
missing And a lot of these people. Have you seen that in Scotland,

483
00:40:57,519 --> 00:41:00,519
These people who say you're not going
to tell me what to do whatever,

484
00:41:00,079 --> 00:41:06,000
not under guards to anti vaccination,
or at least I haven't knowingly come across

485
00:41:06,039 --> 00:41:09,639
any people who are anti vax but
I have come across people who were against

486
00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:15,400
social distancing and against wearing their mask. And about two jobs ago, there

487
00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:20,440
was one one of my colleagues who
I got on stone very well, but

488
00:41:20,599 --> 00:41:24,280
he was so getting social distancing and
at that job, at the place where

489
00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:29,079
I worked, then you weren't allowed
to go into the elevator by yourself,

490
00:41:29,559 --> 00:41:31,840
and so I wouldn't go in if
anyone else was in the elevator. But

491
00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:37,920
one day Finns going in for my
shift, met my colleague whether we chat

492
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:40,320
outside and we went in to go
to our shift, and he went in

493
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:43,719
the lift and he said, don't
worry, let's just coming here with me.

494
00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:45,400
It doesn't bother me. And I
went, no, no, I'm

495
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:49,039
not going to do that. Well, if they don't think he would have

496
00:41:49,079 --> 00:41:53,239
been bothered, any of the supervisors
managers would have told him off. I

497
00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:55,480
don't want to get told off for
that, and I don't want to put

498
00:41:55,480 --> 00:42:00,159
someone's health at risk. It's funny, Ale sister. In the high to

499
00:42:00,199 --> 00:42:05,679
the pandemic, we had some people
who they would purposefully go and cough on

500
00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:08,239
other people in public just to show
off, like, not only am I

501
00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:13,119
not going to wear a mask because
hashtag freedom, but I'm going to go

502
00:42:13,159 --> 00:42:17,800
and force my you know, my
particles on other people And thought and I

503
00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:22,440
just think, how how do we
get there? And it's frustrating to live

504
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:27,599
in an anti science culture where everybody
in their dog can come up with the

505
00:42:27,639 --> 00:42:31,199
wackiest conspiracy theory and find validation for
it on the internet. I don't know

506
00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:35,719
what the solution is. Just no, I feel you. I sympathize with

507
00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:38,519
you of them. I'm glad you're
there, you know, masking and vaccinating

508
00:42:38,599 --> 00:42:44,280
and standing up for a good science. That's encouraging to me. Yeah,

509
00:42:44,679 --> 00:42:49,519
well, I'm just one test.
No no, no, You're not just

510
00:42:49,679 --> 00:42:53,039
one person. You are one person
and that matters. So Alexis you keep

511
00:42:53,119 --> 00:42:59,280
kicking Okay, okay, well thanks, all right, take care, bye

512
00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:05,559
bye bye. A lovely accent,
Oklahomans have an accent. We have an

513
00:43:05,559 --> 00:43:09,840
accent, and it's people just start
deducting IQ points. I can get my

514
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:14,920
y'alls on, you know, I
start saying euan's and y'alls when I get

515
00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:19,039
real tired. But if you're from
Scotland, didn't you've got an accent?

516
00:43:19,199 --> 00:43:23,639
It's just lovely. It's lovely.
Australia, what a lovely accent? Anybody

517
00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:29,159
from the UK? What a lovely
accent? South Africa? What a great

518
00:43:29,199 --> 00:43:36,559
accent? Oklahoma? Not so much. I've got Michael at seven seven zero.

519
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:38,920
Are you there? Hey, I'm
right here. Thanks for calling.

520
00:43:39,119 --> 00:43:43,800
What's on your mind? Oh?
I was just wanting to talk about Christian

521
00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:46,519
metal since you like to go on
about Christian rock. I was just seeing

522
00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:52,760
there. Do you have any experience
in that genre Christian heavy metal? My

523
00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:57,719
experience is going to be decades old. Brother, This was back in the

524
00:43:57,840 --> 00:44:04,800
nineteen eighties and nineteen nineties, right, Stryper and such. I'm talking more

525
00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:13,079
along line like bands becoming the archetype, Eternal Decision and the Second Sea.

526
00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:17,639
Yeah. Sorry, I think we
had I don't know if raz band would

527
00:44:17,639 --> 00:44:21,840
be considered metal. It was just
hard rock. There was a band called

528
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:25,639
Deliverance, you know, and we
had some other The problem is I'm not

529
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:30,239
familiar enough to speak with authority about
genres. So was it death metal or

530
00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:36,159
thrash metal or whatever? Wherever you
log on and it's just double base riffs,

531
00:44:36,199 --> 00:44:40,920
you know, some gaiging certains,
you know that kind of thing.

532
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:47,880
There is a whole genre of Christian
music where people do that. You know.

533
00:44:49,039 --> 00:44:52,760
My experience is pretty honestly, So
do you listen to it? I

534
00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:54,320
mean, why why bring it up? Why is it on your money?

535
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:59,679
Absolutely? Well, it's like I've
been I've been wanted to talk to you

536
00:44:59,679 --> 00:45:06,239
about these particular bands because one of
the things we talk about Striper, we

537
00:45:06,320 --> 00:45:10,920
talk about Skillet and how cringe their
performances are, and how they try too

538
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:15,880
hard to try to get on the
mainstream and whatnot, which they really are

539
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:24,239
mainstream, and it's just that Christian
metal itself isn't really mainstream. Like Eternal

540
00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:30,760
Decision actually had an album Aware they
have an extraordinarily similar sound to Metallica,

541
00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:35,960
which I think is absolutely hilarious.
Well, I did a whole speech called

542
00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:39,880
the Copycats, or we talked about
Christian culture and it's radar up to see

543
00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:45,119
what was happening in secular culture,
and it says, oh, that's popular,

544
00:45:45,239 --> 00:45:49,400
let's do a Christian version of that. Music is certainly a great example,

545
00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:52,599
and we would just wait. An
artist has a hit song, a

546
00:45:52,599 --> 00:45:55,360
band has a great album, and
about six months later, there would be

547
00:45:55,360 --> 00:46:00,719
a Christian version of it, usually
much weaker, much lamer of pale imitation,

548
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:05,079
very generic, but at least we
had it, and there was a

549
00:46:05,159 --> 00:46:07,800
charm to that because we're like,
now we've got a Christian version, man,

550
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:12,360
we don't have to participate in the
world. I'm gonna rock for the

551
00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:15,400
rock man, I'm gonna rock for
the King. And that's how we felt

552
00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:19,880
in the eighties when these big hair
bands came out like Baron Cross. You

553
00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:24,920
know, we well right for the
King, you know, that's how those

554
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:32,679
albums went all right, right,
I think I heard a little bit of

555
00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:37,320
that talk you did about the coffeecat. Yeah, that's awesome. You know

556
00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:42,440
it's awesome. And if you really
want to have fun, google search Christian

557
00:46:42,559 --> 00:46:46,199
heavy metal album covers. It is
the greatest thing in the universe to see

558
00:46:46,239 --> 00:46:51,360
these album covers. It's just a
gift to all human kind. So if

559
00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:54,719
your board Christian heavy metal album covers, just go google it. Okay,

560
00:46:55,159 --> 00:47:00,800
Oh, I've done that. In
fact, actually had a CD of becoming

561
00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:07,320
the archetypes of their album Dichotomy.
More hairspray was used in a fifteen year

562
00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:12,440
period. I think it's probably the
reason that we have holes in the ozone

563
00:47:12,519 --> 00:47:16,599
right now is the metal hair bands
of the eighties and nineties, and so

564
00:47:16,760 --> 00:47:21,559
they oh, an apology to the
species. Gotta run, Michael, thanks

565
00:47:21,559 --> 00:47:23,199
for colin brother, and we'll see
you later. Yes, sure, not

566
00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:27,639
a problem, all right, to
see you later. Oh my gosh,

567
00:47:27,679 --> 00:47:31,559
that takes me back. I was
second row It's striper for the to Hell

568
00:47:31,679 --> 00:47:36,239
with the Devil tour. I was
there. I took this poor girl.

569
00:47:36,280 --> 00:47:38,800
It was a date I was on
with. Tina was her name. She'd

570
00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:43,960
never been to a concert of any
kind in her life. So I said,

571
00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:47,039
hey, why don't we go to
Stryper. They're awesome. They rock

572
00:47:47,199 --> 00:47:52,719
for the rockman. So I got
us second row at the Brady Theater,

573
00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:55,920
which was a place that we called
the Old Lady on Brady. It was

574
00:47:55,960 --> 00:48:00,519
this charming theater still here in town. And we were right that, we

575
00:48:00,559 --> 00:48:05,800
were right up front, and it
was ear splitting. The speakers were just

576
00:48:06,119 --> 00:48:09,239
right there, pointed at us and
ah, I mean they were screaming.

577
00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:15,840
You could feel your ear drum actually
sort of flutter from the vibration of the

578
00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:20,320
sound. I'm sure I've got permanent
hearing loss. At one point, the

579
00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:24,880
opening band, their name was Hurricane. The guy pulls out it's very spinal

580
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:30,159
tap. He pulls out a guitar, an electric guitar and a gem studded

581
00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:38,719
cello bow and he just screeches it
across the strings, just yeah, and

582
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:45,559
we're all like, yeah, man, awesome rocking for the King. Oh

583
00:48:45,599 --> 00:48:50,039
I'm so embarrassed. I'm so embarrassed. I was there. I lived it.

584
00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:55,880
I was heavy meddling for Jesus Man. Let's take a look a here.

585
00:48:58,039 --> 00:49:00,920
Wow, if you could meet the
young your seth, you would just

586
00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:05,360
shake your head and wonder what happened. Let's take a look here at nine

587
00:49:05,519 --> 00:49:08,920
four zero Cody, Hi, thanks
for calling. Hi. I was just

588
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:13,039
kind of sort of wondering. He's
like, I've been watching a lot of

589
00:49:13,079 --> 00:49:16,800
atheist content for like a while now, and sometimes they'll talk about like this

590
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:22,559
certain college that does gives people the
fake degrees and stuff, and turns out,

591
00:49:22,639 --> 00:49:25,679
I'm pretty sure that's actually my grandpa. Hang on, miss, I

592
00:49:25,719 --> 00:49:30,280
missed the first part of that.
They hand out what degrees, just not

593
00:49:30,360 --> 00:49:36,199
credited to degrees. Oh like gray
Mill where you just go and they yeah

594
00:49:36,239 --> 00:49:38,239
they degree farm. Yes, Pice, Okay, go ahead, yes,

595
00:49:38,239 --> 00:49:43,440
sir. Well, I've watched a
lot of videos like that, and I'm

596
00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:46,719
pretty positive that it's my grandpa that
runs that. And I honestly didn't know

597
00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:51,559
that he did that until I heard
a bunch of people into the internet talking

598
00:49:51,559 --> 00:49:54,280
about it. And I'm honestly not
sure if I should, you know,

599
00:49:54,360 --> 00:49:58,719
like asking him about that, because
I don't know what he thinks he's doing.

600
00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:04,320
It's like ant Hovend the Apologist.
Have you seen the place where he

601
00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:07,760
got his degree. It looks like
a double wide mobile home. It is

602
00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:12,320
a degree B that is actually my
grandpa. Like I think that is the

603
00:50:12,639 --> 00:50:15,679
one that gave him the diforma.
These places exist, and so then you

604
00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:21,800
become doctor. So and so.
I remember I worked in a building with

605
00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:29,719
a traveling evangelist and he was given
an honorary doctorate by his home church.

606
00:50:29,880 --> 00:50:35,559
Tell me that's not a rigged game. And from then on his office manager

607
00:50:35,679 --> 00:50:44,039
required everyone on staff to refer to
him as doctor. And he didn't receive

608
00:50:44,239 --> 00:50:49,400
a doctorate. He didn't have a
PhD. He didn't actually have enough life's

609
00:50:49,400 --> 00:50:53,840
work to qualify for an honorary doctorate. He was just a preacher whose own

610
00:50:53,920 --> 00:51:00,079
church decided he deserved a PhD or
to be called doctor, and he played

611
00:51:00,119 --> 00:51:06,159
that card for freaking decades. I
wouldn't say anything to your grandfather, but

612
00:51:06,280 --> 00:51:09,519
I think it's a it's certainly fertile
ground for conversation among you and your friends,

613
00:51:09,960 --> 00:51:13,840
you know, And if it comes
up, I would lead with questions,

614
00:51:14,039 --> 00:51:16,719
what were their course studies, what
were their requirements? Are they accredited?

615
00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:21,880
Were they vetted? You can ask
questions and kind of see what happens.

616
00:51:21,960 --> 00:51:24,000
Hell, I might be curious about
that, but I don't think i'd

617
00:51:24,039 --> 00:51:29,199
walk in with, Hey, I
heard you were the dean of bullshit University.

618
00:51:29,440 --> 00:51:31,880
I don't think i'd lead with that. I mean you can, And

619
00:51:31,960 --> 00:51:37,039
just like also, I guess talking
to him about general because honestly, like

620
00:51:37,400 --> 00:51:39,000
he kind of knows I don't really
believe in a god anymore, and like

621
00:51:39,719 --> 00:51:44,199
we haven't had the greatest conversation since
then. I've kind of been avoiding talking

622
00:51:44,239 --> 00:51:46,400
to him in general. He's kind
of trying to like guilt me into him.

623
00:51:46,440 --> 00:51:52,400
He's like he's kind of sickly and
about to die. Probably he's playing

624
00:51:52,559 --> 00:51:57,000
the I may die at any moment
card. He's just like, did I

625
00:51:57,000 --> 00:52:00,480
really waste my entire life? Do
you want this to be the last conversation

626
00:52:00,559 --> 00:52:05,760
we have together? That sort of
thing. That's just bullshit. First of

627
00:52:05,800 --> 00:52:09,119
all, he's asserting falsely, and
I don't think he believes that his sole

628
00:52:09,239 --> 00:52:14,920
purpose in life was to have a
Christian grandson. There were many purposes in

629
00:52:15,039 --> 00:52:21,079
his life, self generated and otherwise. Secondly, this is emotional blackmail,

630
00:52:21,119 --> 00:52:22,920
and I don't think you have to
put up with it from anybody, including

631
00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:29,559
a dying grandfather. That's a boundary
violation. And I would respond if it

632
00:52:29,599 --> 00:52:31,840
was me with actually, I'm in
a good place. I'm happy with my

633
00:52:31,920 --> 00:52:37,679
life. And just as no one
could tell you how to live yours and

634
00:52:37,719 --> 00:52:40,199
how to take your journey, I'm
going to take mine on my own terms.

635
00:52:40,400 --> 00:52:44,639
Now, I'm here for you if
you need anything. But this part

636
00:52:44,639 --> 00:52:47,440
of our conversation really is a personal
thing, and we need to move on.

637
00:52:47,480 --> 00:52:51,679
And if he refuses to move on, I think you physically move on.

638
00:52:51,760 --> 00:52:53,800
Have a nice day. Thank you
for letting me talk to you.

639
00:52:54,000 --> 00:52:58,599
Karty, is nice talking to you, and we'll see you later. Look

640
00:52:58,599 --> 00:53:04,880
at me counseling people, relational advice
as if I had a PhD and family

641
00:53:05,079 --> 00:53:12,039
therapy, counseling psychology. Who knows, Maybe I do. Maybe maybe I

642
00:53:12,079 --> 00:53:15,360
went to one of those little shacks
out in the weeds. Yeah, walked

643
00:53:15,400 --> 00:53:20,199
into the lobby and filled out a
form, dropped a few hundred bucks cash

644
00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:27,440
only, cash only, and they
gave me my degree. Congratulations, PhD

645
00:53:27,480 --> 00:53:30,280
Doctor Seth Andrews. And then whenever
I spoke in public, when I'm traveling

646
00:53:30,280 --> 00:53:36,679
and touring and speaking, I would
be introduced from the stage ladies and gentlemen,

647
00:53:36,960 --> 00:53:43,719
Doctor Seth Andrews, how many people
would actually go and check out my

648
00:53:43,840 --> 00:53:49,199
degree, find out where I had
graduated. I think in this community a

649
00:53:49,239 --> 00:53:54,079
lot of people. I think the
news would break pretty soon. This is

650
00:53:54,199 --> 00:54:00,920
skeptical audience. You know. I
always think about Saul Goodman from the show

651
00:54:00,079 --> 00:54:05,079
Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul,
especially when he was really in his sort

652
00:54:05,079 --> 00:54:12,480
of slimy bus bench ambulance chasing billboard
shill of a lawyer. He got his

653
00:54:12,559 --> 00:54:20,440
degree by mail from the University of
American Samoa Law School. Now, I'm

654
00:54:20,440 --> 00:54:23,599
not knocking anybody who does correspondence courses, because I think those can be extremely

655
00:54:23,679 --> 00:54:29,280
valid, But University of American Samoa
does not exist in real life. This

656
00:54:29,440 --> 00:54:34,719
is not an actual college, but
it was sort of sold in the series

657
00:54:34,920 --> 00:54:39,360
as kind of a pretender. You
know, it's college light. It's sort

658
00:54:39,400 --> 00:54:44,800
of the fast track to a law
degree. And I just picture one of

659
00:54:44,840 --> 00:54:50,719
those double wides out in the wilderness. You drive the dirt road, you

660
00:54:50,840 --> 00:54:52,519
go in, you get your degree. That's kind of what I picture in

661
00:54:52,599 --> 00:54:58,599
my mind, Doctor Andrews. Oh, if I wanted to, could I

662
00:54:58,760 --> 00:55:06,679
get away with its? Probably not
with this audience. I think your bullshit

663
00:55:06,800 --> 00:55:14,199
meter would be going off pretty much
right away. The prestigious, highly esteemed

664
00:55:14,320 --> 00:55:29,719
doctor Andrews will continue hosting and taking
your calls next. Thanks so much for

665
00:55:29,880 --> 00:55:32,639
including me in your day. I
appreciate your listening so much. Kind of

666
00:55:32,679 --> 00:55:37,039
a random show. We're talking to
you about the stuff that's on your mind.

667
00:55:39,239 --> 00:55:45,639
I've got Ruth at seven zero seven. Hello Ruth, Hi, this

668
00:55:45,719 --> 00:55:49,320
is the second time I get to
talk to you. I'm so excited.

669
00:55:49,440 --> 00:55:52,119
How long has it been. It's
been about a year and a half.

670
00:55:52,559 --> 00:55:58,440
I'm working with the homeless now,
I'm feeding the hungry and the nunsheltered in

671
00:55:58,519 --> 00:56:04,199
bushes. And when it comes to
schizophrenia, the young man that wanted to

672
00:56:04,239 --> 00:56:08,400
blow up the planet and hate his
life, You're right, it's very sensitive

673
00:56:08,840 --> 00:56:15,440
and most of my clients have schizophrenia
on top of mess at it. So

674
00:56:16,119 --> 00:56:22,920
sometimes when they get that way,
it's best to let him spew sometimes to

675
00:56:22,960 --> 00:56:30,320
get it out of their brains.
And he was very distraught. How would

676
00:56:30,360 --> 00:56:32,119
you critique my approach? How might
I have like? I wanted to make

677
00:56:32,159 --> 00:56:37,159
sure I gave plenty of room at
the same time, while respecting the audience

678
00:56:37,199 --> 00:56:40,719
and the limited time we have together. Do you have any critique for me

679
00:56:40,920 --> 00:56:45,519
how I might improve my approach with
something like that. Well, I thought

680
00:56:45,519 --> 00:56:49,679
you did a really good job.
I know you've probably been doing this for

681
00:56:49,719 --> 00:56:54,920
a really long time. When it
comes to when he wants to starts getting

682
00:56:55,000 --> 00:57:00,119
really going on, you just kind
of bring them back down to where they

683
00:57:00,199 --> 00:57:05,679
started. You know, he started
he hates life, you know, apparently

684
00:57:05,719 --> 00:57:09,880
he didn't have the choice of being
born. None of us do. And

685
00:57:10,199 --> 00:57:16,280
it's hard when I don't know if
he was on his medication, Seth was

686
00:57:16,360 --> 00:57:20,639
not. I think he said he
had been off his medication. Maybe that

687
00:57:20,719 --> 00:57:22,639
was the next scholar was talking about
his grandma. And I think we have

688
00:57:22,679 --> 00:57:27,920
to be fair and say that it's
very possible that his position on life and

689
00:57:28,039 --> 00:57:34,920
death, existence, etc. May
exist legitimately apart from schizophrenia or any other

690
00:57:35,079 --> 00:57:37,519
condition. I mean, he might
just hold that opinion. I've heard it

691
00:57:37,559 --> 00:57:42,639
expressed elsewhere that nobody chooses to be
born. It'd be better off if we

692
00:57:42,719 --> 00:57:45,079
had not been born, or we
all went extinct. I mean, I

693
00:57:45,119 --> 00:57:47,920
know that this position does exist not
there. It does, and it does

694
00:57:47,960 --> 00:57:54,239
with the unsheltered when they're living in
a berry bush and they have literally nothing.

695
00:57:54,840 --> 00:57:59,440
But I have to give credit to
the outreach program I work with.

696
00:58:00,079 --> 00:58:02,280
And I'm I'm an atheist. I'm
not out there to get into heaven and

697
00:58:02,320 --> 00:58:07,199
I tell everyone that. But sometimes
these people who have zero, nothing,

698
00:58:07,320 --> 00:58:13,639
and they're schizophrenic and they're going off
the deep end, some of the religious

699
00:58:13,639 --> 00:58:19,360
people do bring them in and it
helps them. It gives them only one

700
00:58:19,480 --> 00:58:22,480
thing to have hope for. And
I know they're all going to be disappointed

701
00:58:22,519 --> 00:58:27,039
when they die. It just gives
them that one little bit of hope.

702
00:58:27,760 --> 00:58:30,559
That and cigarettes. I don't think
they're going to be anything what they die,

703
00:58:30,559 --> 00:58:32,400
but I understand what you're trying to
get the spirit of what you're saying.

704
00:58:32,400 --> 00:58:36,679
It's not like they'll be conscious to
be able to acknowledge there was no

705
00:58:36,760 --> 00:58:39,400
heaven. They're just going to fall
asleep. That's my position, right.

706
00:58:39,519 --> 00:58:44,679
Who was it Twain who said mine? I hadn't existed for billions of years

707
00:58:44,679 --> 00:58:49,119
before now, and I hadn't been
inconvenienced really at all by it, So

708
00:58:49,199 --> 00:58:54,199
I take that right. That's just
a saying I say when I'm talking to

709
00:58:54,239 --> 00:58:59,719
my mother about my born again Christian
brother, I just make light of it,

710
00:58:59,760 --> 00:59:04,800
like ge mom, he's going to
be so disappointed. I get well,

711
00:59:04,840 --> 00:59:07,360
you know, it's interesting. We
talk a lot about how we construct

712
00:59:07,440 --> 00:59:13,400
the mechanisms for coping or navigating,
and if you are hopeless, if you

713
00:59:13,639 --> 00:59:16,440
have nothing but suffering around you,
it's going to certainly color how you see

714
00:59:16,480 --> 00:59:20,400
the world. Some people will,
I think, want to see the world

715
00:59:20,480 --> 00:59:24,519
destroyed because you know, the world's
been so cruel to you, why continue?

716
00:59:24,559 --> 00:59:29,960
And others will build a happy ending
to their story. One day I

717
00:59:30,000 --> 00:59:32,639
will have a mansion and be rich
and be whole and be loved and all

718
00:59:32,639 --> 00:59:37,199
those things. And it's understandable.
And I think this construction of this afterlife,

719
00:59:37,239 --> 00:59:42,599
this wonderful next chapter. I think
we have to approach that with empathy.

720
00:59:42,679 --> 00:59:45,920
Instead of saying, well, how
stupid is that? We say,

721
00:59:45,000 --> 00:59:47,800
you know, I understand these people
are hurting, and we get it.

722
00:59:49,159 --> 00:59:52,599
Yeah, not everyone gets it.
It takes a real I don't know,

723
00:59:52,639 --> 00:59:57,519
a real special person not to argue
with them. The last thing I would

724
00:59:57,519 --> 01:00:00,880
ever say to one of my homies, I'm sorry, but there is no

725
01:00:01,000 --> 01:00:07,760
God. They would literally od and
die. And they're humans. I look

726
01:00:07,800 --> 01:00:12,719
at them as human beings. They
have a heart, they bleed, they

727
01:00:12,760 --> 01:00:19,280
suffered. You know, we've all
suffered these people need us, and no

728
01:00:19,320 --> 01:00:22,199
one preaches to them. There's an
open church when they want to go,

729
01:00:22,639 --> 01:00:27,760
they don't have to pray to get
a meal. We feed them what we

730
01:00:27,880 --> 01:00:32,400
feed ourselves. So there is the
place here in Santa Rosa were you have

731
01:00:32,519 --> 01:00:37,800
to give yourself to the Lord to
get a meal, and no one wants

732
01:00:37,840 --> 01:00:43,440
to go there. They want to
make that choice for themselves. Let me

733
01:00:43,480 --> 01:00:49,679
ask you a personal philosophical question,
Ruth, are you glad you were born?

734
01:00:50,320 --> 01:00:52,039
Do you look forward to the future
or do you feel like you're just

735
01:00:52,119 --> 01:00:58,920
on the hamster wheel and it's all
meaningless. I have never felt meaningless.

736
01:00:59,320 --> 01:01:02,119
My life is and such a joy
I love every day. I wake up

737
01:01:02,159 --> 01:01:07,159
early. I'm happy. You know
I hear God fearing people say that if

738
01:01:07,159 --> 01:01:12,760
you're an atheist, you have no
morals, you can't be happy, or

739
01:01:13,159 --> 01:01:19,079
you have nothing to look forward to. Coming from a nonbeliever, here's how

740
01:01:19,400 --> 01:01:23,960
most of us probably wake up.
Everything we do, every choice we make,

741
01:01:24,519 --> 01:01:30,840
every time we make someone happy sad. We do it because it's our

742
01:01:30,960 --> 01:01:36,880
free well to do it. No
God tells me what I can and cannot

743
01:01:36,920 --> 01:01:40,760
do. I was taught critical thinking, and the problem with they take their

744
01:01:40,840 --> 01:01:46,079
kids and really really young, and
they get them hooked on it and it's

745
01:01:46,079 --> 01:01:51,719
a drug. But you are a
happy person, glad to be alive,

746
01:01:51,840 --> 01:01:55,920
looking forward to tomorrow. Yes I
am. I can hear it in your

747
01:01:57,000 --> 01:02:01,039
voice, Ruth, and I appreciate
your perspective on ours call and thank you

748
01:02:01,079 --> 01:02:06,280
so much for calling me. A
thank you fair you can't care. I

749
01:02:06,400 --> 01:02:10,559
see you later, Bye bye.
I've got Bruce at two five four.

750
01:02:10,760 --> 01:02:15,960
Bruce are you there? Hey,
Seth, Hey have voices? Thanks for

751
01:02:16,039 --> 01:02:19,760
calling? Man, what's going on? Yeah? You are the voice though

752
01:02:21,280 --> 01:02:27,000
joy. Listening to your show brings
me joy. Walking outside brings me joy.

753
01:02:27,239 --> 01:02:32,039
We live in a world where I
think we're easily manipulated, and as

754
01:02:32,079 --> 01:02:37,800
an atheist, when I speak to
Christians, they say, how are you

755
01:02:37,920 --> 01:02:42,440
so happy? How do you know
everyone? I've never met a stranger,

756
01:02:42,519 --> 01:02:46,239
but I've met a lot of strange
people, but I've never met a stranger.

757
01:02:46,519 --> 01:02:50,320
Hey, it's good to see you. I'm just glad to be part

758
01:02:50,360 --> 01:02:53,360
of this existence. Call live.
You know. I was kicked out of

759
01:02:53,440 --> 01:02:58,800
the Catholic school in the first grade
because I asked too many questions they couldn't

760
01:02:58,840 --> 01:03:02,920
answer, and my grandmother said,
you're gonna be just fine. Search and

761
01:03:04,039 --> 01:03:07,039
keep asking questions is your cup half
full or half empty? And I said,

762
01:03:07,079 --> 01:03:10,840
I'm just glad I have a cup. Yeah. And my grandfathers they

763
01:03:10,880 --> 01:03:15,239
both said, you're gonna be just
fine. And my parents let me choose

764
01:03:15,400 --> 01:03:20,400
my own path. Even though I
was raised in the Catholic family, I

765
01:03:20,440 --> 01:03:24,880
wasn't considered different and I was always
a pretty happy kid. The simplest things

766
01:03:25,119 --> 01:03:30,440
make me happy. And people don't
understand how that can be. You're an

767
01:03:30,440 --> 01:03:34,119
atheist, you should be full of
hate, and they just don't get it.

768
01:03:34,360 --> 01:03:37,880
And part of it, I laughed, insided them for being so narrow

769
01:03:37,880 --> 01:03:43,119
minded. You know, there's a
few that I speak to, a few

770
01:03:43,159 --> 01:03:46,559
of these young Christians that I work
with, and I talk about how easily

771
01:03:46,719 --> 01:03:52,559
humans are manipulated with the social media
and the thumbox, the phone. You're

772
01:03:52,599 --> 01:03:58,039
buying shoes because you saw somebody else
wearing them. Do you not think that

773
01:03:58,400 --> 01:04:02,440
religion easily manip let you that easily? And they're thinking a little bit,

774
01:04:02,480 --> 01:04:06,320
they're thinking, you know, and
that's all I wish people would do is

775
01:04:06,519 --> 01:04:12,679
think a little bit more about others
and quit being so selfish. I remember

776
01:04:12,920 --> 01:04:18,360
that great is it a Jatteruski quote
birds born in a cage think flying is

777
01:04:18,400 --> 01:04:23,159
an illness, and you and I
are like open the cage, baby,

778
01:04:23,559 --> 01:04:28,039
just spread your wings. There is
no feeling like that liberation that comes with

779
01:04:28,679 --> 01:04:30,960
breaking out and breaking free. You
feel it, I feel it. I

780
01:04:31,000 --> 01:04:33,880
think we want other people to feel
it as well. Right, Yeah,

781
01:04:33,920 --> 01:04:36,920
I don't force anybody, but I'm
the guy that always jumped in the deep

782
01:04:38,039 --> 01:04:40,880
end. Come on, we can
swim, Come on, you know.

783
01:04:41,360 --> 01:04:45,920
And something my grandmother said that always
stuck with me. And she was raised

784
01:04:45,960 --> 01:04:48,920
canceolate, but she had a very
open mind, and I think of her

785
01:04:48,960 --> 01:04:53,800
time she had to put on that
face. But she said, along your

786
01:04:53,880 --> 01:04:58,719
journey to the mountaintop of nirvana,
you might meet the Buddha along the way

787
01:04:58,719 --> 01:05:01,519
and reach up, meet Jesus and
reach up and he'll give you a hand.

788
01:05:01,840 --> 01:05:06,119
Reach down and help somebody else.
But find your own way, find

789
01:05:06,119 --> 01:05:12,719
your own path to nirvana, your
inner happiness, and don't let anybody tell

790
01:05:12,760 --> 01:05:15,320
you their way is the only way. Those are the ones that are scary,

791
01:05:15,360 --> 01:05:17,920
the ones that run around the bottom
of the mountain with a book and

792
01:05:18,000 --> 01:05:21,559
a gun or a weapon and say
my way is the only way, because

793
01:05:21,599 --> 01:05:26,679
it's not. We're all individuals,
we all have a different path, we

794
01:05:26,760 --> 01:05:30,400
all have different ideas. Your enthusiasm
is contagious, and I think it's a

795
01:05:30,400 --> 01:05:33,559
great way to sort of cap the
show. You know, there's no one

796
01:05:33,639 --> 01:05:38,960
way to be happy. Find what
fits for you, be kind, find

797
01:05:39,000 --> 01:05:42,920
the joy, get the goodness.
I love it, Bruce, thanks for

798
01:05:43,239 --> 01:05:45,199
calling our slowman. Have a great
day, all right, We'll see you

799
01:05:45,280 --> 01:05:48,960
later. I like that. Let's
end on a high note. Man,

800
01:05:50,000 --> 01:05:54,360
That's what we'll leave each other with
as we call it a day, and

801
01:05:54,400 --> 01:05:59,480
I'll see you back here for the
next show next time. Follow on Facebook

802
01:05:59,480 --> 01:06:03,159
and Twitter for a complete archive of
podcasts and videos, products like mugs and

803
01:06:03,199 --> 01:06:09,320
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804
01:06:09,320 --> 01:06:14,159
and details on upcoming freethought events and
conventions. Log on to our website,

805
01:06:14,480 --> 01:06:17,480
The Thinking Atheist dot com.