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This is London calling, London calling. But it's just ridiculous, isn't it.

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You know, when I meet with
a National park in my constituency,

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when I ask him to help build
more houses for local people, want to

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ask them to help our town centers
which are really struggling, want to ask

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them to do numbers of different things
to help local residents. I get met

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with the same response, We'd love
to, but we've got no money to

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do that. And now all you
see is a National park splurge in money

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on a rebrand of an organization which
didn't need to be rebranded in the first

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place. There was nothing wrong with
corner at the Breck and Beacons National Park,

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and yet again they're changing things.
You're just a fit, a type

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of cultural Welcome to London calling with
me, James Debiport and my very good

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friend mister Toby Young. You doing
I'm okay, I'm okay. James.

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Did you have a good Easter break? Did you have an Easter break?

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Yeah? I probably did, But
whatever joys I may have had have been

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unfortunately trashed by my experience of the
last week. Well, I I took

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this. I took a couple of
days away to see I think two of

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the last unspoke counties in in England, Herefordshire and Shropshire. And I realized

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that even there there is a serpent
in the garden. So I was um,

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Shropshire, I think, is just
about as beautiful as as England gets.

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Have you have you ever been to
to sort of around Clan and beyond

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clum Well. I've spent some time
in Shropshire, but I can't say I've

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ever been to clum Well. Yeah, there's sort of okay, so there's

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there's a bit around Ludlow which is
which is you know, more populous Shropshire.

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But then as you climb up into
the hills, you you you start

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getting um, well, it looks
looks actually quite like quite like the North.

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It's it's it's it's sound like Yorkshire
Dales are somewhere. It's but it's

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it's, it's it's very very it's
very very beautiful. And as you get

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higher and higher you get you get
sort of more more landish. And I

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thought this is just amazing, and
I, you know, I'd love to

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live here. And then I crested
the final hill and I looked across towards

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Wales and I saw, I saw
these dark satanic mills. I saw,

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I saw a whole horde of bat
jumping bird slicing eco crucifixes on the world

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side, and I just thought,
this is monstrous. How could they ever

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ever do this? These are the
these are some of the most beautiful parts

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of our country, and we are
despoiling them with wind turbines. And not

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only do they ruin the view,
but also because they turn they turned the

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landscape into an industrial zone. But
what they also do is pollute the environment

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with with low frequency noise, with
infrasound, which is which is audible for

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miles a large array of wind turbines
that you can hear them ten miles off,

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so they produce this sort of low
level hum which sort of vibrates the

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area round round about, so there's
no escape from it almost and it really

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depressed me. And I think this
ties in with quite a few things were

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going to discuss in this in this
particular episode, and it's it's amazing how

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well there is no resistance from the
government, which is which is pushing this

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this horror hard. But it's amazing
how unaware of the problem the public is.

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Yeah, it's it's it's old,
isn't it. Sometimes Britain is referred

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to as turf Island. Um and
I don't need by by trans rights activists,

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particularly in the US, trying to
depict the UK as an outlier,

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you know, when it comes to
global opinion about trans rights, and often

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you know, people on the left
crime depict the UK as being, you

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know, a far right outlier within
Europe. I don't know if you saw

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that Dom Jolly meme on Twitter.
I don't know if he created it,

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but he certainly posted it on Twitter. It was an inversion of the Old

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Dad's Army image. Near the Old
Dad's Army image, we have the Union

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Jack pushing back against the Swastika's coming
at us from every direction on the European

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continent. In this inversion of that
image, the the the it's the forces

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of social democracy pointing towards Britain from
the continent of Europe, and a little

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Swastika flag defending Britain, implying that
we have become the only Nazis now in

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Europe. But actually the truth is, James, that the UK has embraced

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kind of green gobbledegook more credulously than
almost any other country in the world.

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Can I just pick you up on
something that chubs, which which I find

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quite quite curious. Um A,
why would you care what the activists who

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call us turf Island. I mean, you're talking about a really, really

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tiny minority of people, So you're
you're you're quoting, um, the point

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of view of these people who are
aggressive activists desperate for publicity, but who

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are really not representative of any any
current of thought that that really really matters.

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Um. And the same with Don
Jolly. I'm very suspicious about this

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character and have been for some time. I think he was a He had

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a TV show a few years ago, a sort of comedy show where where

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his stick was to be seen carrying
a ginormous AHS style mobile phone and saying

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I'm on the train, I'm on
the train and stuff. And even at

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the time, one watched this and
thought, well, we're being told that

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this is a funny, funny program, but is it. I mean the

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fact that it's in a comedy slot
and stuff. And these people I think

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are deliberately promoted and inserted into a
sort of entertainment and media discourse in order

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to disrupt and annoy but they can
be very safely ignored, and by referring

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to him as if he matters,
as if his viewpoint matters, and if

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it's a sort of valid viewpoint that
we should respond to. I think you're

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rarefying something that doesn't deserve to be
rarefied. You're you're actually sort of becoming

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part of the problem because him.
I wasn't expecting you to pick a quarrel

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over this. It was really just
a bit of throat clearing for introducing the

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idea that in fact Britain is an
unusually progressive country, particularly when it comes

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to the green agenda issues like net
zero, sustainable energy, alternatives to hydrocarbons,

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etc. And that seems to me
to be the truth of the matter,

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and completely at odds with this trope
amongst the progressive left that we are

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an outlier, but of the opposite
kind, that we are a weirdly conservative

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outlier, resisting the forces of progressivism
and on the wrong side of history,

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when in fact we're right at the
cutting edge of those historical trends. I

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mean, I totally, I totally
agree with with with your broad point,

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which is that we're actually doing crazy
amounts of really awful green stuff, and

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we don't need to We don't need
to make a case that we ought to

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be more green, or that we're
or to defend ourselves we're not being green

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enough. What what I'm saying is
that the people you're referring to who make

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these claims are themselves dishonest actors.
They are They are put there in order

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to um to push a false narrative, probably probably by the same people who

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are in charge of green policy.
That's the That's the thing. It's like,

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for example, extinction rebellion, just
stop oil. These are not genuine

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grass roots movement that they are.
There's a new one, James. I

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wonder what you what you're obviously I
take a it's not a new one.

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I've I've been saying this for a
race. No, no, no,

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no, no, no no,
there is a new group. I wonder

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what you thought of Animal Rising?
Did you did you? Did you clock

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that they try we can disrupt the
Grand National Do you know? It's funny.

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I was thinking about this and I'm
thinking this is these are not these

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are these are not grass roots things
that I think most people in the country

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would be mortified the idea that the
Grand National, but with the one horse

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race that everyone watches, even people
who aren't remotely interested in the horses.

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Everyone has has a punt and and
sure we you know, we get upset

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when occasionally the horses die. But
the idea that these people are representative of

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anything other than a kind of a
really sinister attempt to close down all our

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all our forms of popular entertainment,
all the things that genuinely unite us as

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a country, that we that make
us happy. They want to take this

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away from us. I mean,
I wonder, I wonder who these people

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are really um And of course the
other the other effect it has is I

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saw in the papers this was the
most heavily policed, the most heavily policed

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Grand National sense the IRA kidnapped red
Rum, something like that. And it's

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like, how, I want a
second. Why why are we in a

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situation where you've got police crawling all
over this event which should just be one

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more event in our national social calendar. Where did this come from? It's

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all it's all very dodgy. I
think now why this this came up?

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But the kitchen table yesterday in the
Young Household, and both female members of

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a young household were weren't very keen
on racing or the Grand National, in

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particular because because of the harm horses
are likely to suffer, because it's such

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a crowded feel, and because the
I guess the some of the jumps are

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so difficult. But didn't didn't didn't
two horses die possible? I think I

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think it's it's characteristic of the problem
that you've got. I mean, frankly,

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with respect your children, it's none
of their bloody business whether that whether

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the Grand National runs or not,
or whether whether horses die. They're not

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they're not really capable of having a
kind of an intelligent opinion, or that

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they're the product of the brainwashing they've
had by a culture which which which which

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seeks to create the concept of animal
rights and ignores the human rights. For

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example, you think about the industries
that are involved in in um in the

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Grand National. So you've got you've
got the training, training yards, you've

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got you've got the vets, you've
got the book is, you've got the

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venue itself, you've got the hospitality
industry which is dependent on the Grand National.

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You've got the horses themselves. These
these horses would not exist were it

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not for the Grand Grand National and
races like the Grand Nationals. They've been

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bred to race. They love racing. I can tell you that as as

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as somebody who is who rides a
lot and enjoys being with horses. Horses

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like doing this stuff. It's not
like people are forcing the horses to do

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things that they really don't feel comfortable
doing. Sometimes they get killed in the

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process. Well that's how it works, in the same way that that we

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all get. The mountaineers get injured
sometimes falling off mountains, but they're doing

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the thing they love, and it's
the same way. Well, racing is

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it is a is a very good
example. By the way, the jumps

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are a lot of have been have
been handsified. I'd say over the over

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the years that they're not nearly as
as as tough as they were. No

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one wants the horses to die.
No one wants the horses die. It's

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upsetting. It's more upsetting for for
racing folk and people in you know,

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the racing industry, people who ride
horses than for anyone, but for kind

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of random random people. It's yeah, I haven't got an opinion on you

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know, I don't want to ban
TikTok or whatever, your whatever, your

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kids get upset about, you know, what they think matter. And I

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do find it quite extraordinary that that
children are being worked up into this kind

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of righteous, sort of crusading zeal
against something which is none of their bloody

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business. Well, I suppose,
in fact, it was three horses that

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died at the Grand National. I'm
not necessarily taking it was my wife and

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my daughter's side. I guess that
their argument is, um, someone has

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to take the side of of of
the horses. Um. And how do

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they know what the horses are thinking
on this? I guess they say,

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well, you know, if the
horses are dying, Um, then you

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don't need to be a telepath or
to be able to talk to animals to

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know that they're not enjoying it.
No, that's a silly thing to say,

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isn't it. I mean that that
that really is the horses, that

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the horses, the horses were enjoying
it up to the point where they don't.

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That's the thing. And to have
I mean, have your children be

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anywhere near a horse? Mean,
what does your wife know about horses?

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This is just silly that it's It's
like, so we'll be moving on next

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to why why why we shouldn't need
meet It's that that we've we've reached this

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this pitch where people are expected to
have a view on that on everything.

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Funnily, if i've been I've been
writing this piece that I'm gonna I'm gonna

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almost with you in mind. It's
about it's called why I Hate debate and

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why I hate free speech. But
that's that's for another episode. But but

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the idea, okay, part of
it is when we go to school,

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Yeah, we're encouraged to think that
debating societies are really good and and and

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debates are really good because people can
learn about about having having opposing viewpoints and

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how to develop their arguments. And
it's it's precisely this culture that leads to

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debates over the future of the Grand
National I say, leave it alone.

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There shouldn't be debates about it.
It's there, people enjoy it, and

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that's enough. I think. The
I mean, one problem with your argument,

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James, or one component of your
argument is you seem to be appealing

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to the principle and if you're not
an expert in a subject, no,

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don't not right deal about it,
then your opinion is invalid, and you

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shouldn't bother to express it. That's
not wasn't it. No, that's an

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argument obviously they're going of, you
know, m managerial technocray. I've never

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I'd never, I'd never made that
argument. What I'm saying is that people

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people that if you're going to call
for it, call for something to be

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banned, and you have no connection
with it at all, no emotional connection,

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that that what you're doing becomes vexatious
if you haven't got any skin in

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the game, which which clearly that
your your your family haven't. They're just

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kind of random commentars who seem to
have been have been trained to exist in

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this world. And we've all been
programmed in this way where where we've been,

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which is my point about debates,
We've been programmed that we must have

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an opinion about everything, and and
to have opinion about anything. It's a

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short step from there too. And
what should be done about this problem that

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I've decided to have an opinion on. And maybe it's not a problem,

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Maybe it is just a fact of
life. We're all going to die,

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including horses. There it is.
Yeah, my objection to the animal rights

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argument and animal rights activism is that
why do they focus exclusively all the activism

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is directed at supposed harm done to
animals by humans. I don't know if

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I've made this point before, James, but surely if you care about the

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welfare of animals, if you want
to protect them from harm, and you

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think they have a right that you
think you have, you know, comparable

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rights to human beings, then why
not devote your energy to the animals that

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harm other animals? Why not place
every step in the food chain to protect

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animals from other animals who surely pose
a far greater threat to them in the

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round than human beings do. It
seems oddly anti humanistic to focus just on

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the harm done to animals by human
beings and not the harm done to animals

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by other animals. If your only
concern is to protect the animals from harm,

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well yeah, it's it's one of
the inconsistencies in the environmental animal rights

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ecology movement, because what one of
the one of the developments you saw in

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the roughly in the middle of the
twentieth century, which this new strain of

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thinking, which which became increasingly current
in the mainstream, which was that no

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longer are humans are sort of the
dominant species that that God has given dominion

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over the over the other animals,
you know, all sheep and ox and

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00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:45,400
yeah, and the beasts of the
field, the files of the air,

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and the fishes of the seam,
that suddenly we are just become we are

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00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:55,839
one species among many, and we
all have equal equal rights, whether we're

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a sort of bacteria. They clearly
don't think that they They don't actually genuinely

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00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:07,319
embrace a kind of species egalitarianism,
because if they did, they'd be much

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more concerned with the damage done to
animals by other animals. They sort of

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00:18:11,039 --> 00:18:17,000
seemingly, almost semi consciously accept the
principle that we are, in fact,

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we do enjoy it dominion over animals, and that's why we shouldn't harm them,

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00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:25,079
and why there should be a particular
obligation on us to protect them,

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00:18:25,599 --> 00:18:27,920
but not on other animals. So
it's sort of it's sort of almost predicated

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00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:32,200
on the very belief system that they
claim to be opposed to. Should we

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00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:36,480
have an ad, James, should
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vpn. Their sales are all the
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so they're just going to be inundated
with with subscribers. You've done them,

254
00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:45,759
but you've done them. Priud there. Yeah, And I have to say

255
00:20:45,799 --> 00:20:51,559
to all those potential QPR fans out
there, the fact that we've only won

256
00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:56,480
two games in the last twenty seven
in all competitions, don't let don't let

257
00:20:56,480 --> 00:21:00,000
that put you off becoming a QPR
fan. As I say to my children

258
00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:04,920
over and over again, he would
complain bitterly about me saddling them with this

259
00:21:06,039 --> 00:21:10,160
lifelong curse. It's character building,
you know, if you're a Chelsea supporter

260
00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:12,880
or an Arsenal supporter Man united Man
City. You win practically every week.

261
00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:18,200
You get very little satisfaction from winning. You just occasionally get frustrated when you

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00:21:18,319 --> 00:21:21,440
lose. There's very little upside.
When you're a QPR fan, you become

263
00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:23,759
accustomed to losing, so losing doesn't
matter. But when you win, you

264
00:21:23,799 --> 00:21:29,240
feel the most extraordinary joy. It's
such a rarity, and that's the beauty

265
00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:33,640
of supporting a struggling team like QPR. Are paying for that ad, that

266
00:21:33,799 --> 00:21:40,720
gushing ad because it's a bit nauseating
otherwise. So we should talk continuing our

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00:21:40,799 --> 00:21:48,200
green theme, shouldn't we taps a
story a eco friendly name change for the

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00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:52,640
Brecon Beacons. Tell us, tell
us about this, give us your takes.

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00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:59,119
So I think it's the Welsh government
because the Brecon Beacons sit within a

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00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:04,200
Welsh now tional park. But I
think the Welsh Government has decided to rename

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00:22:04,559 --> 00:22:11,039
the Brecon Beacons with They're going to
call them something in Welsh which I wouldn't

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00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:18,319
attempt to pronounce because they don't like
the word. But I know, I

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00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:26,599
know you're a descent brick. It's
confusing enough that Welsh road signs are in

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00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:30,200
Welsh and English but you know,
so this is just there isn't going to

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00:22:30,279 --> 00:22:33,720
be the words Brecon beacons aren't going
to appear on road signs anymore, which

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00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:37,839
I imagine will decimate the Welsh jurist
industry. But anyway, we'll get them

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00:22:37,839 --> 00:22:40,839
to that in a second. But
the reason for this, the rational is

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00:22:41,039 --> 00:22:45,160
the word beacon in Brecon beacons refers
to the fact that in olden times,

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00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:51,319
fires were lit on these beacons as
a means of warning, you know,

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00:22:51,559 --> 00:22:57,839
neighboring places that you know, an
invasion in invading army was heading their way,

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00:22:59,039 --> 00:23:02,599
and to warn them about other things. And this apparently doesn't sit well

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00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:08,839
with the Welsh government's commitment to reducing
our reliance on carbon fuels. So because

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00:23:08,839 --> 00:23:15,000
it involved creating the beacon involved burning
wood, so they decided to eliminate that

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00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:19,279
suspect, that boo word, and
replace it with something more anodyne, which

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00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:26,279
captures their commitment to creating a sustainable
future for the planet. Absolutely batter seems

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00:23:26,319 --> 00:23:33,200
like, you know, the ultimate
example of kind of green gobbledegook gone mad.

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00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:37,720
It's peak woke, get it,
James peak woke. Well, you

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00:23:37,759 --> 00:23:42,680
know you know who trains who famously
trains in the Brecon Beacons. The sas

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00:23:42,799 --> 00:23:48,400
yes, sayes because Hereford, which
is where their bases located, is about

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00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:55,720
what fifteen miles away from from and
they do things like that. There's a

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00:23:56,400 --> 00:24:00,920
but I went to school not too
far from the beacon. So we used

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00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:04,839
to do what was it called core, We have to we have to,

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00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:11,359
you know, do combine. We
had to do. Were you and that

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00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:12,880
well you did it? Was that
mandatory or did you volunteer for that?

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00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:18,759
Choke you as mandatory have made you
the manu are today. Yeah, we

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00:24:18,839 --> 00:24:26,160
had to have compulsory weekends where we
had to we had to march up a

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00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:30,839
hill with a and you probably the
backpack on and freezing and you probably hated

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00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:33,799
it at the time. But last
you know, this easter, you spent

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00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:37,559
time voluntarily tramping up hills and try. Oh yeah, I know. It's

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00:24:37,599 --> 00:24:42,119
it's It's absolutely true. It's the
sort of thing that had my children been

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00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:45,000
forced to do these things, I
said to them, this is character building

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00:24:45,039 --> 00:24:48,519
and it's a good thing. So
I would have got no sympathy from from

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00:24:48,519 --> 00:24:52,119
me. It is. It is
very beautiful up there. I mean,

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00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:55,440
I like the view from any fan. But what I was going to say

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00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:57,519
was. I think that there is
there is more to the story than meets

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00:24:57,559 --> 00:25:03,720
the eye, and it is it
is. There's there's the headline grabbing thing

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00:25:03,799 --> 00:25:07,799
that you see in all the papers. So it's like another of those ecological

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00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:11,720
correctness gone mad stories. So you
think, oh, Brecon Beacons, and

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00:25:11,799 --> 00:25:15,880
now they're changing their name to something
unpronounceable, and this is the way the

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00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:22,480
story has been been reported. I
personally don't don't care that much that that

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00:25:23,279 --> 00:25:26,799
they're going to call them this Welsh
name, because actually what the Welsh name

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00:25:27,039 --> 00:25:33,160
means is simply Brecon Beacons. I
mean, I mean, I'm assuming that

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00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:38,640
brick Heiniog is Brecon and ban how
do you think that means beacon? I

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00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:44,400
know, I imagine they probably they
can't have substituted the English word for beacon

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00:25:44,559 --> 00:25:47,480
with the Welsh word for beacon,
cam because that would defeat the kind of

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00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:51,799
maybe not maybe maybe not. I
suppose the border point I was going to

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00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:57,279
make make is that a lot of
these mountains hills have Welsh names anyway,

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00:25:57,279 --> 00:26:00,720
and Johnny Nights names they are too. I'm I'm mispronouncing Penny Fan. It's

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00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:06,799
probably pronounced Penny Van or something,
but they do most of these peaks do

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00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:08,559
have rush names anyway, so that
that's not the big deal. I think

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00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:12,799
what is really going on here is
much more sinister. I don't think,

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00:26:12,839 --> 00:26:17,880
by the way, that this is
the Welsh mickey mouse government. I think

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00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:22,480
that this is this is the Brecon
Beacons National Park, and this is their

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00:26:22,559 --> 00:26:29,240
chief executive who's saying these things.
And there's a few things I've noticed.

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00:26:29,279 --> 00:26:32,440
First of all, her name is
Katherine Meeling Jones, and I looked her

326
00:26:32,519 --> 00:26:37,240
up. She is just one of
those career bureaucrats, sort of deep state

327
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:41,920
quango crats and the revolving door and
civil service horribly woke, horribly on board

328
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:48,759
with whatever nefarious agenda the deep state
has gotten planned. So she was until

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00:26:48,839 --> 00:26:53,640
recently from the UK Space Agency.
In other words, she's not a countrywoman.

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00:26:53,759 --> 00:27:00,759
She's not somebody who has any any
feeling for this beautiful landscape. I

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00:27:00,759 --> 00:27:04,240
mean, it really is. I've
spent a lot of a lot of many

332
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:07,920
happy years walking in the Breckon Beacons, in the Black Mountains. It's a

333
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:14,160
beautiful part of the world. It
is now being steadily ruined by the wind

334
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:21,200
turbines that I mentioned before. And
here is something really spooky, so you've

335
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:25,880
got Katherine Million Jones sounding really really
jolly and kind of saying things guaranteed to

336
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:30,160
annoy people like you and me.
So she's saying, we're an environmental organization,

337
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:33,160
we're trying to cut carbon and pushed
to net zero, so having a

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00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:37,640
carbon burning beacon just isn't a good
look. We've had awful wildfires over the

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00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:41,640
last few years. How she slipped
that one, And I don't know they

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00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:45,160
haven't had an awful what they maybe
in Australia. And I've got my suspecially

341
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:48,920
what she's referring to, I can't
imagine they're actually world fires on the break

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00:27:48,519 --> 00:27:52,440
And we know that the reason for
the Australian wildfires, one of the reasons

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00:27:52,599 --> 00:27:59,759
is because of the eco laws preventing
landowners clearing away the brush that would have

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00:27:59,759 --> 00:28:03,279
other wise gone. So so there
she's planting this lie into the into the

345
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:11,599
narrative um anything that kind of sort
of the mate way she speaks, anything

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00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:15,880
that kind of promotes that idea that
far in the landscape is a good thing,

347
00:28:15,319 --> 00:28:19,960
made us feel that it probably wasn't
the look we're going for. So

348
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:25,839
she's got this kind of this this
chumin us about what she's saying. But

349
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:27,920
then you look on and she says, she's a nice authoritarian. In other

350
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:32,480
words, that's that's that's that's the
species of authoritaries exactly, and it's just

351
00:28:32,519 --> 00:28:37,960
like chummy authoritarianism. Yeah. So
then later on in the report you see

352
00:28:37,319 --> 00:28:44,319
the name change is in direct response
to the climate change, climate and biodiversity

353
00:28:44,359 --> 00:28:51,000
emergency and is part of a broader
vision for the park that includes onshore wind

354
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:56,480
turbines and reduced sheep numbers. So
these are these are the two really simils

355
00:28:56,519 --> 00:29:00,440
to things that are going on under
the guise of ah, is this this

356
00:29:00,559 --> 00:29:03,880
name change and annoying? And aren't
these these green activists aren't they silly?

357
00:29:04,279 --> 00:29:08,400
They're not silly. They're much much
worse than that. So sheep, we

358
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:11,519
eat sheep, right, we need
meet. It's good, you know,

359
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:17,319
the farmers. We should be supporting
these people that they that the system is

360
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:19,680
at war with them. We've seen
this in the Netherlands, we're seeing it

361
00:29:19,759 --> 00:29:25,680
over here. So under the cover
of this name change we've got rewilding,

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00:29:25,799 --> 00:29:32,559
which is supported by by green stooges
like George Monbia. Just going back to

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00:29:32,559 --> 00:29:34,480
my point, James will cause more
animals suffering because you know, if you

364
00:29:34,559 --> 00:29:40,759
reintroduce wolves to the United Kingdom,
they're going to kill a lot of innocent

365
00:29:40,839 --> 00:29:45,319
animals and breach their right something when
they care about that, just like happens

366
00:29:45,359 --> 00:29:48,759
in in the Yellowstone Park, And
what's going to happen to the sheep when

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00:29:48,799 --> 00:29:52,119
they kind of get rid of the
sheep in someone like the breck and Biggers

368
00:29:52,119 --> 00:29:56,119
and they're going to take them off
to a sheep retirement home where they're going

369
00:29:56,160 --> 00:30:00,279
to be you know, fed with
bottles to where kind of do they die

370
00:30:00,279 --> 00:30:03,359
of natural causes? I doubt it? Yeah, well exactly that. This

371
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:07,400
is what I was the sort of
intellectual inconsistency I was I was calling out

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00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:14,160
with the horses the Grand National as
well. It's like people seem to imagine

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00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:17,559
that they want they want these special
animals that will live forever, that will

374
00:30:17,599 --> 00:30:19,319
never never die. I mean,
we're all going to die. That the

375
00:30:19,319 --> 00:30:22,920
horses are going to die, the
sheep are going to die. And the

376
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:26,599
horses and the sheep would not be
there if they did not have a utility

377
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:30,359
to a man. I mean,
that's that's that's our relationship with the There's

378
00:30:30,359 --> 00:30:33,480
only so much space. We wouldn't
be breeding sheep if we didn't eat them

379
00:30:33,559 --> 00:30:36,200
or used them for a wool.
We wouldn't be breeding these horses if we

380
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:41,359
didn't race them for our entertainment.
And the So you've got the war on

381
00:30:41,039 --> 00:30:45,519
on on farmers, the war on
meat, the war on sheep, the

382
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:52,680
rewilding fad which has been being heavily
produced by the green movement and suddenly being

383
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:56,480
introduced into the into the debate is
the idea that what we thought of as

384
00:30:56,720 --> 00:31:03,160
national parks, which were protected zones, you know, that you couldn't develop,

385
00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:07,759
suddenly it's suddenly being okay to build
wind turbines. Now, since when

386
00:31:07,759 --> 00:31:12,240
did wind turbines become part of the
national the natural landscape and become part of

387
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:18,119
the park system. What this woman
is saying and doing is really really sinister.

388
00:31:18,079 --> 00:31:22,240
Yeah, good point, James.
I hadn't realized that it was part

389
00:31:22,279 --> 00:31:30,839
of a kind of broader agenda to
um commit sheep genocide and ruin the Breckon

390
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:36,480
beacons by sticking wind turbines everywhere.
But I guess it's not surprising. But

391
00:31:36,559 --> 00:31:40,400
yeah, no, good point,
quite sinister, And yeah, we should,

392
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:41,759
we should, we should organize you
when we should should we should should

393
00:31:41,799 --> 00:31:45,759
organize a protest group. Given the
success of Extinction Rebellion and Just Stop Oil

394
00:31:45,839 --> 00:31:49,160
and now Animal Rising. What do
you think, James, that the Sheep

395
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:56,079
Liberation Front could set ourselves up to
protect the poor sheep in danger of being

396
00:31:56,319 --> 00:32:00,519
slaughtered by George Moonbott and his army
of Red Warriors. I think it should

397
00:32:00,519 --> 00:32:06,519
be called extinction extinction breck and beacons
because that's invented to what they're proposing.

398
00:32:06,799 --> 00:32:10,599
They're just destroying it. Maybe maybe
maybe we can kind of like maybe we

399
00:32:10,599 --> 00:32:15,799
should contact you know, Extinction Rebellion
high command and point out that the animal

400
00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:22,200
species most in danger of going extinct, at least in Wales is sheep and

401
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:28,559
if they're really concerned about preserving biodiversity, they should be protecting the poor sheep

402
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:32,440
that are in the in the site
now, these echomaniacs, yeah yeah,

403
00:32:32,519 --> 00:32:37,359
but given that they're being paid by
the same people who are pushing this other

404
00:32:37,359 --> 00:32:39,799
agenda, I'm not sure that's going
to wash um. Should we have another

405
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:45,599
great it's your turn now. Because
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406
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407
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408
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409
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411
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412
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415
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417
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418
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Limited which is authorized and regulated by
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419
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be repossessed if you do not keep
up with repayments on your mortgage. And

420
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:58,960
there's another there's another green story,
James. There is in keeping with our

421
00:33:59,039 --> 00:34:04,960
theme which is which involves the Australian
Bureau of Meteorology, and we ran a

422
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:08,880
piece about this by our Environment editor
Chris Morrison on The Daily Skeptic this morning.

423
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:19,599
And the Australian Bureau of meteor Meteorology
is an important source of data and

424
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:24,679
has been has very much been one
of the many organizations that has been responsible

425
00:34:25,159 --> 00:34:35,039
for the evidence that average global temperatures
are steadily increasing, and it's an important

426
00:34:35,079 --> 00:34:39,039
So the Australian data set is an
important data set because Australia is one of

427
00:34:39,039 --> 00:34:45,920
the largest land masses in the Southern
Hemisphere. But it turns out someone's done

428
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:51,320
some digging and they've managed to get
the Australian Bureau of Meteorology to release some

429
00:34:51,360 --> 00:35:00,320
comparative information in which they showed they
showed the temperature readings from ordinary merch cury

430
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:07,599
glass units, traditional devices for measuring
temperatures, and they're new, more sophisticated

431
00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:14,559
electronic thermometers which are supposedly more accurate. And it turns out that around in

432
00:35:14,639 --> 00:35:21,880
measurements taken around Brisbane Airport, the
measurements carried out by the electronic thermometers are

433
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:29,239
forty one percent higher than the readings
on the mercury glass units. Sorry,

434
00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:31,280
now they're higher than the readings on
the mercury glass units forty one percent at

435
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:35,880
the time and only lower thirty two
percent at the time. And so it

436
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:45,599
looks as though these and these electronic
measurement devices are on average recording higher temperatures

437
00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:52,679
than the mercury old fashioned glass units. And people are interested in whether this

438
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:58,559
is true of other data sets from
different locations compiled by this bureau, and

439
00:35:58,559 --> 00:36:01,639
they're refusing to release that in form. And it's a growing scandal in Australia.

440
00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:07,559
The Australian newspaper has weighed in.
You know, policy in Australia but

441
00:36:07,639 --> 00:36:14,000
around the world is based on this
data which supposedly shows temperatures rising. So

442
00:36:14,039 --> 00:36:20,239
if it turns out that part of
the explanation for these supposed rise in average

443
00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:24,880
global temperatures is because they're using different
measurement devices, then that's quite a big

444
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:30,159
story and not surprising that this bureau
is refusing to release any of the data

445
00:36:30,199 --> 00:36:32,480
to suggests that actually this is what
the data show is not just in Brisbane

446
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:38,039
but elsewhere. Yes, exactly what
you're finding, tubes is something that I

447
00:36:39,119 --> 00:36:45,000
experienced every day of my life,
pretty much in the days when I was

448
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:52,519
I could be bothered to write about
the climate scam and the environmental movement.

449
00:36:52,320 --> 00:37:00,679
And I'm not patronizing you here.
Iought fought the climate wars for about fifteen

450
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:05,519
years, and I'm really glad that
you're carrying on the fight. I just

451
00:37:05,559 --> 00:37:08,719
find it it's like groundhog Day for
me. I read these stories and I

452
00:37:09,519 --> 00:37:14,199
read your story at the Daily Skeptic, and this is the kind of thing

453
00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:19,119
that I was covering five years ago, ten years ago, fifteen years ago.

454
00:37:19,639 --> 00:37:22,719
And by the way, I too
had had had problems throughout pronouncing meteorology.

455
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:25,599
So it's one of those one of
those words that gets get sort of

456
00:37:25,679 --> 00:37:34,199
stuck in your palette somehow. But
the Australian Bureau of Meteorology like the Zero

457
00:37:35,159 --> 00:37:40,000
CSIRO or the CSIRO, which which
is their their equivalent of you know,

458
00:37:40,039 --> 00:37:47,719
it's their sort of climate institute.
All these institutions, the same with NASA,

459
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:53,400
gifts in the NASA, the guard
Institute of Space Studies, the Climate

460
00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:58,960
Research Unit at the University of East
Anglia. They are all part of this

461
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:06,280
orchestra official line machine. And it
was it was this morning somebody somebody quote

462
00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:10,760
tweeted your your post about about this
this story, and he said, it's

463
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:15,239
like deja view all over again.
And then then he gives a quote which

464
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:22,119
was which was from Phil Jones from
the University of East Anglia at the time

465
00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:27,960
of the climate game, um where
he was he was exposed. He was

466
00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:30,280
exposed when when when people approached him
for data. I think it may have

467
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:37,480
been McIntyre and McKitrick who were asking
him as as his good science, whether

468
00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:43,039
you know, for supporting evidence for
his planes, and he said, why

469
00:38:43,079 --> 00:38:47,039
should I show you my data when
you're just trying to find problems with it?

470
00:38:47,679 --> 00:38:52,159
Now? Is that Is that something
any honest scientists would say, An

471
00:38:52,159 --> 00:38:57,199
honest scientist would say, go write
ahead, here's my data. You can

472
00:38:57,239 --> 00:39:00,679
see that it confirms all my claims
I'm making about it, because that's how

473
00:39:00,679 --> 00:39:07,159
good science works. But climate science
is not good good science. It's not

474
00:39:07,199 --> 00:39:12,559
even science, it's it's sociology.
It's proper it's propaganda. So and the

475
00:39:12,599 --> 00:39:16,880
Australians are absolutely up to the neck
in this. The Australian establishment is just

476
00:39:17,119 --> 00:39:22,400
so corrupt. They've got the Great
Barrier Reef which they're constantly telling you is

477
00:39:22,519 --> 00:39:28,920
in danger of being bleached or or
or destroyed in some way because of global

478
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:30,800
warming, and you look at you
look at the evidence, and you find

479
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:35,719
just doesn't stack up. And it's
the same with with their with their data

480
00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:39,320
sets for their their their weather stations. I mean this story is a bit

481
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:43,679
like the urban heat island effect,
which is which is another problem with with

482
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:50,679
the with with with the climate measurements, with the temperature measurements that often,

483
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:58,039
as you know, these thermometers are
these weather stations are located at places which

484
00:39:58,039 --> 00:40:01,639
have been encroached on by urban development
quite often. For example, there they're

485
00:40:01,679 --> 00:40:06,400
at airports which which maybe in the
nineteen thirties which just had you know,

486
00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:08,559
the odd plane coming in once a
week, and now they have they have

487
00:40:08,679 --> 00:40:15,000
seven four seven's flying in every every
half hour, and that inevitably tends to

488
00:40:15,039 --> 00:40:17,519
exaggerate the temperature. So you all
around the world, you've got these these

489
00:40:17,559 --> 00:40:22,280
weather stations telling us that that we're
heating up and we're doomed, when actually

490
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:28,440
it just like this story shows,
it's fulty measurement equipment. Yeah, just

491
00:40:28,519 --> 00:40:30,880
on that point, James, I
don't know if you recall, but last

492
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:38,400
year um a record was broken and
one of these measuring devices recorded the highest

493
00:40:38,519 --> 00:40:45,519
ever temperature on record in England,
um and I think it was like forty

494
00:40:45,559 --> 00:40:50,800
one point something degrees centigrade. And
it turns out that that measurement was at

495
00:40:51,039 --> 00:40:55,519
RAF Conigsby, which is a military
airport. Um And we've been trying to

496
00:40:55,559 --> 00:41:00,480
get RAF conegs, but we've been
we've been deluging them with information. We

497
00:41:00,519 --> 00:41:02,400
even in fact just submitted an FOI
request at the Daily Skeptic to try and

498
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:07,639
find out, you know, what
planes were landing and taking off on that

499
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:10,119
day, you know, during the
minute in which that will sixty minutes I

500
00:41:10,119 --> 00:41:13,400
think it was, in which that
I think it was actually just one minute.

501
00:41:13,639 --> 00:41:15,960
It only lasted for sixty seconds the
record. We want to find out

502
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:20,599
exactly what was going on in the
airport at that particular moment. And they're

503
00:41:20,679 --> 00:41:25,079
really going to tell you. They'll
be eager because the military, the military

504
00:41:25,119 --> 00:41:29,679
can't be trusted. The Yeah,
well, let me let me, let

505
00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:32,199
me let me just let me put
an argument to you, James, which

506
00:41:32,559 --> 00:41:36,639
I'm not. I mean, I've
been thinking about how best to rebut it.

507
00:41:36,679 --> 00:41:40,119
I mean, I think I think
I think it would be hard to

508
00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:50,280
argue that climate alarmists, climate hysterics
aren't exaggerating the risk of various environmental catastrophes

509
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:52,960
befalling US, and we don't achieve
net zero by say, twenty fifty or

510
00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:55,440
sooner, some of them would have
it, And they constantly do this.

511
00:41:55,480 --> 00:42:00,400
They've been doing this in a routine
way going back decade. We don't achieve

512
00:42:00,519 --> 00:42:04,079
this by then, you know,
we only have seven years left to save

513
00:42:04,119 --> 00:42:06,239
the planet, five years left to
save the planet, and so on and

514
00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:08,559
so forth. So we know that, as a matter of course, they

515
00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:13,920
wildly exaggerate the risk of what will
happen. We don't do exactly what they

516
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:19,039
say. But let's suppose that,
you know, a more honest climate scientist

517
00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:24,360
or climate activists acknowledges that if we
don't achieve net zero by twenty fifty,

518
00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:31,800
the chances of various environmental catastrophes befalling
US, sea levels rising, forest fires

519
00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:37,920
becoming more frequent, etc. They
might acknowledge, and actually, the chances

520
00:42:37,039 --> 00:42:44,639
of those any of those things happening
are actually only one percent. Maybe they'd

521
00:42:44,639 --> 00:42:49,760
say five percent. Certainly not greater
than fifty percent. But let's suppose the

522
00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:54,880
honest climate activist says, okay,
I admit it. The chances of sea

523
00:42:54,960 --> 00:43:00,639
levels rising cities being submerged, forest
burning to the ground, and if we

524
00:43:00,719 --> 00:43:06,320
don't achieve net zero by twenty fifty
only one percent um. Is that not

525
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:08,599
still? Is that not still a
good argument for trying to do something to

526
00:43:08,639 --> 00:43:12,639
mitigate that risk? The risk would
be so catastrophic, it would be such

527
00:43:12,639 --> 00:43:17,480
a high contal even though it's low
probability. Don't we nevertheless have a responsibility

528
00:43:17,519 --> 00:43:21,960
to try and mitigate it? What's
the argument against this is it's Pascal's wager,

529
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:27,280
isn't it? But it's the Pascal's
wager fallacy. First of all,

530
00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:34,320
it presupposes that it is that there
is even a potential risk of you know,

531
00:43:34,639 --> 00:43:37,119
even as as small as one percent, which which there's there's not.

532
00:43:37,159 --> 00:43:42,079
By the way, the other problem
with with that line, which I which

533
00:43:42,079 --> 00:43:45,840
I hear being touted by by sort
of people who want to be who think

534
00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:52,760
they're being reasonable and thoughtful about this
um, is that it completely ignores the

535
00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:59,400
failure to conduct any costs benefit analysis
of the costs of action, and that

536
00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:01,960
this is almost the thing that upsets
me most about. I mean, there

537
00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:07,280
are many things, you know,
the mendaciousness, the corruption, the squandering

538
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:13,519
of public money. All that's really
upsetting, but none of that comes close

539
00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:19,360
to um, the horror of what
is being done to the planet in the

540
00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:21,960
name of, say, of saving
it. I mean, there's there's been

541
00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:28,039
a few few films about this,
including a documentary I think which which Michael

542
00:44:28,079 --> 00:44:34,880
Moore got got involved in UM,
which is that you think about the the

543
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:39,119
primary rainforest, for example, which
has been destroyed to to create to grow

544
00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:46,800
um palm oil for biofuels. You
think of you think of the natural landscape

545
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:52,119
which has been despoiled, and the
seascape of course being despoiled by these industrial

546
00:44:52,119 --> 00:44:57,000
structures, these wind turbines which create
this this horrible humming noise which which upsets

547
00:44:57,000 --> 00:45:05,320
whales and disrupts their their their their
migration that descrubts that the signals to communicate

548
00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:07,960
with that kills birds and bats on
an epic scale. I mean, that's

549
00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:12,440
the thing. The number of bats, bat species, including rare ones,

550
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:19,159
which have been barrow traumatized, which
means that the pressure of of of the

551
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:22,760
m of the turbines causes their innards
to it to implode. I think it

552
00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:29,239
is um. The number of raptors
that are killed by by spinning turbine blades,

553
00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:34,119
the environmental damage done by the concrete
bases for them, that the rare

554
00:45:34,159 --> 00:45:37,199
earth minerals which have to be mined
in the most appalling conditions in places like

555
00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:44,000
China to produce the parts for the
nacells on on these these turbines, and

556
00:45:44,039 --> 00:45:49,679
then solar. We haven't even got
into solar. That environmental environmentalism is killing

557
00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:53,239
the planet, and that's what really
upsets me about it is a monstrosity.

558
00:45:53,360 --> 00:46:00,280
So I'm not buying the line about
it supposed I suppose the reasonable climate activists

559
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:05,360
has a reply James which he says, the reason there's no point in carrying

560
00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:10,199
out any sort of cost benefit analysis
is because I accept that the cost of

561
00:46:10,239 --> 00:46:16,079
all these measures we're taking to mitigate
this risk are greater than the benefits,

562
00:46:16,159 --> 00:46:21,599
in all likely greater than the benefits. I'm not arguing. He says that

563
00:46:21,639 --> 00:46:23,760
if we do nothing, there's a
greater than fifty percent chance of this harm

564
00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:30,760
befalling us. I acknowledge that the
chances are extremely slight, and the costs

565
00:46:30,119 --> 00:46:34,599
are going to outweigh the benefits.
But nonetheless, the reason there's no point

566
00:46:34,639 --> 00:46:39,000
in doing a cost benefit analysis is
because if this one percent risk materializes,

567
00:46:39,039 --> 00:46:45,320
it would be so catastrophic that we
need to pay this heavy price in order

568
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:47,360
to mitigate against it. Yeah,
but for that argument to work, you'd

569
00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:52,000
have to demonstrate that any of the
measures that are being taken or are planned

570
00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:54,559
on being taken, are going to
make a slug a bit of difference,

571
00:46:54,679 --> 00:47:00,519
which which they aren't, and they
won't. That wind turbines, for example,

572
00:47:00,599 --> 00:47:05,000
produce its supposed you bind into the
lie that the CO two is a

573
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:07,760
problem, which it isn't. By
the way, it's a beneficial trace gas

574
00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:10,760
which makes the planet go greener.
But suppose you brought into the lie completely

575
00:47:12,239 --> 00:47:15,880
and this is complete fallacy, it's
completely mendationous. The science it's supporting it

576
00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:20,519
is junk science. Suppose you you
accepted that that yes, CU was a

577
00:47:20,519 --> 00:47:23,800
problem, even then that wind turbines, for example, don't work on the

578
00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:28,599
terms that have been set forth.
They don't. They don't save carbon dark

579
00:47:28,639 --> 00:47:30,559
side, they don't stop us using
carbon dark side, because you need you

580
00:47:30,639 --> 00:47:35,559
need back up to support wind turbines. For example, you know you need

581
00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:39,840
fossil fuel backup or nuclear back up
to um for when the when the wind

582
00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:43,480
is not blowing or in the case
of solar panels, sun it's not shining,

583
00:47:43,639 --> 00:47:47,400
so or none of this stuff even
works does what it's supposed to do,

584
00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:53,280
so it is it is pure damage
and subsidy farming. Yeah. And

585
00:47:54,360 --> 00:48:01,039
another argument, which I think is
quite good, given that climate scientists claim

586
00:48:01,159 --> 00:48:08,559
that their policy recommendations are informed by
the science, and people following policymakers following

587
00:48:08,599 --> 00:48:14,599
their recommendations claim that their policies are
based on the science, is that if

588
00:48:14,639 --> 00:48:17,719
your hypothesis is that if we do
nothing, there's a one percent chance of

589
00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:23,159
this catastrophic risk materializing, that's a
non falsifiable scientific hypothesis because you can have

590
00:48:23,199 --> 00:48:25,360
a control group, You could have
a kind of you know, there could

591
00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:30,599
be a planet B in which we
do nothing and nothing happens, to which

592
00:48:30,639 --> 00:48:32,119
the kind of climate alarmist says,
ah, yes, I only said there

593
00:48:32,119 --> 00:48:35,280
was a one percent chance. I
didn't say there was a greater than fifty

594
00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:39,480
percent chance. Where is planet Well? I think the better at pacts an

595
00:48:39,519 --> 00:48:45,480
analogy James would be with Sweden and
the pandemic. So when people like Neil

596
00:48:45,519 --> 00:48:52,760
Ferguson said, in a reasonable worst
case scenario, half a million people will

597
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:58,280
die in the United Kingdom if we
do nothing to mitigate the impact of this

598
00:48:58,320 --> 00:49:02,800
pandemic. He wasn't saying that there's
a grader than fifty percent chance that five

599
00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:07,880
hundred thousand people will die, just
a reason. It's just a reasonable worst

600
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:09,920
case scenario, so certainly much lower
than fifty percent. So he can say,

601
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:13,599
in response to someone pointing to Swedens, and we'll look, Sweden did

602
00:49:13,639 --> 00:49:15,400
nothing. They didn't lock down for
the whole of twenty twenty, nothing like

603
00:49:15,559 --> 00:49:20,719
as many people died as were predicted
to die in your reasonable worst case scenario.

604
00:49:20,760 --> 00:49:22,199
So oh yeah, it was only
a worst case scenario. It wasn't

605
00:49:22,199 --> 00:49:24,920
supposed to be a scenario of what's
likely to happen if we do nothing.

606
00:49:24,960 --> 00:49:30,239
So you haven't contradicted my claims at
all. In other words, his hypothesis

607
00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:32,960
that five hundred thousand people would die
if we did nothing was nonfal suffiable because

608
00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:37,800
we'd come up with, you know, a control in which we show that

609
00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:40,360
if you do nothing, fewer than
thirty thousand people die. And he says,

610
00:49:40,360 --> 00:49:43,760
oh no, no, that's completely
irrelevant. I only said it was

611
00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:47,360
a possibility, not a probability.
And the climate it's not it's not scientific,

612
00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:52,320
it's nonfalsifiable. It doesn't pass that
it doesn't pass that poparian test,

613
00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:58,440
so why should we base policy on
it? Yeah, exactly, U.

614
00:50:00,199 --> 00:50:06,679
The thing is tame. I.
There's a there's a friend of mine who's

615
00:50:06,719 --> 00:50:10,239
constantly wrings me up every every every
other week to say, why aren't you

616
00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:14,800
writing, Why aren't you doing more
about climate change? Why aren't you Here's

617
00:50:14,920 --> 00:50:19,119
here's a great story, and you
know about this, And it's partly it's

618
00:50:19,159 --> 00:50:22,039
ground ground top day for me.
I've been there, I've done that.

619
00:50:22,239 --> 00:50:25,760
All these all these stories are old
hat to me because they're just variations on

620
00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:31,360
the same well worn theme. But
secondly, I find it's so depressing that

621
00:50:31,599 --> 00:50:38,440
far from far from waking people up
to what is going on, I find

622
00:50:38,559 --> 00:50:45,519
that the the the medium machine,
that the line machine, which is which

623
00:50:45,559 --> 00:50:54,239
is our mainstream media and is organizations
like the BBC, has has successfully proven

624
00:50:55,679 --> 00:50:59,800
big life theory that I think it
was Gebels and said, if you tell

625
00:51:00,079 --> 00:51:04,880
often and often enough that it will
become you know, it will enter the

626
00:51:04,920 --> 00:51:09,599
discourse and become part of the public
consciousness. Um even though it's not true.

627
00:51:09,840 --> 00:51:13,719
I mean, I'm obviously misquoting that
that was the theory behind big,

628
00:51:13,880 --> 00:51:15,880
big, big lie theory that you
just just repeat, repeat, repeat,

629
00:51:16,280 --> 00:51:21,360
And we've reached the stage now where
there is nobody in the government, nobody

630
00:51:21,360 --> 00:51:24,199
in the supposedly conservative government, who
was supposed to care about conservation. I

631
00:51:24,239 --> 00:51:28,719
mean, it's in the name,
isn't it. Um. None of these

632
00:51:28,719 --> 00:51:31,800
people are even open to the possibility
that what they might be doing is is

633
00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:37,400
deleterious to the interests of the country
that they're supposed to love and want to

634
00:51:37,400 --> 00:51:43,119
preserve. That None of them.
Andrea led some she doesn't care. She

635
00:51:43,400 --> 00:51:46,519
she just thinks all this green stuff
is great, that they're all they've all

636
00:51:46,519 --> 00:51:52,039
been bought and paid for by this, by this this machine. And I

637
00:51:52,239 --> 00:51:58,559
just I get so depressed that I
just wonder what the point is, what

638
00:51:58,639 --> 00:52:00,800
why do we even bother. I'll
give you three reasons, James. The

639
00:52:00,840 --> 00:52:06,639
first is, obviously, I reject
what you've just said. I don't think

640
00:52:06,679 --> 00:52:08,960
that anyone is pulling the strings of
people like Andrew or Edson. I just

641
00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:12,320
think they want to be on the
right side of the argument, on the

642
00:52:12,400 --> 00:52:15,280
right side of history. And if
they can be persuaded that they're not on

643
00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:17,480
the right side of the argument,
and it's not historically inevitable that we should

644
00:52:17,519 --> 00:52:22,360
embrace that zero become that zero achieved
that target by twenty fifty, that I

645
00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:27,719
think they can be persuaded to change
their minds. Secondly, I think the

646
00:52:28,159 --> 00:52:32,480
I think there's there's there's a there's
a more scope for these arguments, for

647
00:52:32,559 --> 00:52:37,920
climate contrarian arguments to land now than
there has been in quite some time,

648
00:52:37,280 --> 00:52:45,480
because people recognized that the modeling around
the pandemic was completely wildly wrong, and

649
00:52:45,519 --> 00:52:50,679
they know that a lot of this
climate alarmism is based on modeling, so

650
00:52:50,719 --> 00:52:53,559
I think they've become generally more skeptical
about modeling. So there is there is

651
00:52:53,639 --> 00:52:58,400
there is an opportunity I think to
kind of you know, you've got people's

652
00:52:58,559 --> 00:53:01,480
ear when you criticize climate modeling in
a way that you haven't had, you

653
00:53:01,519 --> 00:53:07,199
know, for some time. And
third reason is that climate alarmism, climate

654
00:53:07,320 --> 00:53:16,360
hysteria, the kind of doom mongering
millenarian pessimism promoted by Gretathenberg and others,

655
00:53:16,840 --> 00:53:23,000
is causing enormous harm to the mental
health of young people, not just teenagers,

656
00:53:23,400 --> 00:53:25,679
but people in their twenties as well. I don't know if you saw

657
00:53:25,760 --> 00:53:30,639
James, but last week, a
nineteen year old young man who very concerned

658
00:53:30,679 --> 00:53:36,880
about the environment. An environmental activist
took his own life because he became so

659
00:53:36,960 --> 00:53:45,519
convinced there was just nothing he could
do that could avert the impending catastrophic armageddon.

660
00:53:45,760 --> 00:53:50,639
That's that's heading our way. And
and so you know, I think

661
00:53:50,639 --> 00:53:55,840
that we have an obligation to young
people who are who have persuaded themselves that

662
00:53:55,880 --> 00:54:00,760
they shouldn't have children, that there's
no point going on living. Um,

663
00:54:01,400 --> 00:54:08,679
there's no point in making any plans
because our destruction is imminent and unavoidable,

664
00:54:09,079 --> 00:54:13,559
isn't there don't we have an obligation
to them to kind of give them some

665
00:54:13,599 --> 00:54:17,400
hope by pointing out that it's all
based on gobbledegooker nonsense and a political agenda.

666
00:54:17,719 --> 00:54:22,880
It's socialism of another kind. I
mean, to be fair, all

667
00:54:22,920 --> 00:54:28,079
those all those kids who who think
that they shouldn't reproduce for the sake of

668
00:54:28,079 --> 00:54:30,079
the planet have been done a huge
favor. If they've got themselves vaccinated,

669
00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:35,599
they almost certainly won't be able to
be reproduced, So that that's that one

670
00:54:35,800 --> 00:54:45,519
covered off. It's all it's all
I despair terms because um not dissing that.

671
00:54:45,480 --> 00:54:50,360
The huge influence of Daily Skeptic and
there's few outlets which are reporting on

672
00:54:50,400 --> 00:54:54,880
this stuff. But when I started
out reporting, I mean I broke the

673
00:54:54,960 --> 00:55:00,840
climate gate scandal or a popular rights
that anyway, it sort of went viral

674
00:55:01,599 --> 00:55:06,159
on this thing called which no longer
exists, called Telegraph Blogs, which was

675
00:55:06,360 --> 00:55:10,000
a sort of, you know,
the online offshoot of the Daily Telegraph.

676
00:55:10,039 --> 00:55:15,440
I could, I could still place
articles in the Mail quite regularly, and

677
00:55:15,719 --> 00:55:21,880
Christopher Booker certainly could in the Mail, which is probably the most influential of

678
00:55:21,920 --> 00:55:24,880
the papers. Occasionally got pieces in
the in the Telegraph, in fact.

679
00:55:25,039 --> 00:55:30,239
But ten years ago I had a
big piece in the Mail. I went

680
00:55:30,280 --> 00:55:35,360
to Australia, which was the bell
weather for what's going on with the wind

681
00:55:35,440 --> 00:55:40,800
industry here, and I spoke to
victims of wind turbine syndrome, of people

682
00:55:40,800 --> 00:55:45,599
who'd been driven out of their homes
by the low frequency noise that they had

683
00:55:46,320 --> 00:55:52,119
health issues. Um. I spoke
to farmers whose animals had been, whose

684
00:55:52,159 --> 00:55:58,280
livestock had been, they'd been,
you know, disturbed in in a horrible

685
00:55:58,320 --> 00:56:02,000
way by by these these back jumping
bird slicing eco crucifixes. So I was

686
00:56:02,039 --> 00:56:09,159
all over the story, and I
wrote a piece for the Mail saying we've

687
00:56:09,159 --> 00:56:14,719
got to do something about this,
This is a genuine assault on people's property

688
00:56:14,800 --> 00:56:20,880
rights that you can't have in the
name of saving the planet. You can't

689
00:56:20,920 --> 00:56:25,119
have these structures that actually don't save
the environment being put in the countryside near

690
00:56:25,159 --> 00:56:30,800
people's homes, ruining their health,
ruining their their piece. It's just not

691
00:56:30,000 --> 00:56:36,480
on. And and I predicted that
that this wasn't going to continue because people

692
00:56:36,480 --> 00:56:40,039
would realize what a health hazard these
were, what an environmental hazard, Which

693
00:56:40,039 --> 00:56:43,639
is odd, isn't it, given
the best to be saving the environment.

694
00:56:44,119 --> 00:56:47,920
I had faith then that the power
of the media would change things. And

695
00:56:49,000 --> 00:56:52,280
instead, if you try to place
that piece in the Mail, would not

696
00:56:52,400 --> 00:56:58,440
run that piece. Now that there
is not a single mainstream media institution,

697
00:56:59,000 --> 00:57:09,079
neither magazine, political magazine, nor
newspaper which which would run a piece counter

698
00:57:09,239 --> 00:57:14,199
to that, to the narrative that
that or you'd find it very difficult from

699
00:57:14,239 --> 00:57:17,760
place to one there. Christopher Booker
is gone. Sadly, r ip Christopher.

700
00:57:19,519 --> 00:57:22,000
Who else is that? You know? David Rose used to write pieces

701
00:57:22,039 --> 00:57:23,599
for the for the Mail. I
don't whether he still does, probably not,

702
00:57:23,599 --> 00:57:27,639
because they give the Jewish Chronicle.
Now we still have Ross Clark.

703
00:57:27,800 --> 00:57:35,719
Ross Clark regularly writing skeptical things about
climate hystoria in the Telegraph of the Mail.

704
00:57:37,440 --> 00:57:40,199
Yeah, yeah, and that's about
David Frost. David Frost, Lord

705
00:57:40,239 --> 00:57:43,960
Frost has a he's a climate contrary, and I'd say he has a well

706
00:57:44,000 --> 00:57:46,639
he's I mean he's now the chairman
of the Global Warming Policy Foundation. But

707
00:57:46,760 --> 00:57:54,440
then Charles Moore Salmore occasionally writes climate
contrary. Really he's soft soft. While

708
00:57:54,440 --> 00:57:59,599
we're on this, we should probably
pay tribute to the late Nigel Lawson.

709
00:57:59,599 --> 00:58:04,079
I don't think we did last week. We didn't get around to paying tribute

710
00:58:04,079 --> 00:58:07,920
to Nigel. We didn't, did
we, But we should probably acknowledge I

711
00:58:07,960 --> 00:58:10,599
didn't know him, No, made
him once or twice, but now I

712
00:58:10,639 --> 00:58:15,239
couldn't claim to know him. But
he was for a long time chair of

713
00:58:15,239 --> 00:58:17,840
the Global Warming Policy Foundation, wasn't
it he was? I was. I

714
00:58:19,639 --> 00:58:23,360
took part in a few debates with
him, obviously on the same team,

715
00:58:23,400 --> 00:58:28,480
and I'm not sure he was a
total fan of me. I think he

716
00:58:28,519 --> 00:58:30,719
found he thought I was perhaps a
bit too out there, a bit too

717
00:58:31,079 --> 00:58:35,440
you know that I wasn't house trained. I mean, I think he probably

718
00:58:35,840 --> 00:58:38,800
gave him an impression he probably have
had. He probably would have found your

719
00:58:38,960 --> 00:58:47,519
style more agreeable, sort of emollient
style. But yeah, but nevertheless,

720
00:58:47,559 --> 00:58:51,840
I think we did sort of form
a mutual respect. Was the end was

721
00:58:51,920 --> 00:58:55,159
suddenly on my part. I thought
he was. I thought the work he

722
00:58:55,559 --> 00:59:02,960
was such a valuable figure because he
was his history is, I mean as

723
00:59:04,039 --> 00:59:12,480
as a former Chancellor of the Exchequer
under Margaret Thatcher gave him bottom and gravitas,

724
00:59:12,719 --> 00:59:16,320
which we climate skeptics badly needed for
our side, because very few people

725
00:59:17,360 --> 00:59:24,400
in positions of prestige we were prepared
to put their head above the parapet and

726
00:59:24,480 --> 00:59:30,679
question the whole green narrative and the
climate change agenda, although he didn't push

727
00:59:30,679 --> 00:59:32,599
it as hard as I would have
liked, because I mean, I think

728
00:59:32,639 --> 00:59:36,519
the whole thing is a massive scam
and a lie. Whereas he was saying,

729
00:59:36,559 --> 00:59:40,199
well there is no evidence blah blah
blah. But young Lawson and the

730
00:59:42,039 --> 00:59:47,079
WPF were really important. Yeah,
anyway, and he's a great loss.

731
00:59:47,480 --> 00:59:50,920
We should take a break here,
James, but when we come back,

732
00:59:51,440 --> 01:00:00,480
we'll be discussing the latest offerings in
culture corner. Hey, happy spring,

733
01:00:00,519 --> 01:00:04,639
everybody. Technically it's spring here,
it's cold. Maybe where you are it's

734
01:00:04,760 --> 01:00:07,639
really warm. The one thing,
however, that it's true no matter what

735
01:00:07,719 --> 01:00:10,719
climate you're in, is that Ricochet
dot com is the place where you want

736
01:00:10,760 --> 01:00:15,360
to go. Ricochet dot com has
got the flagship podcast, and it's got

737
01:00:15,679 --> 01:00:17,880
so many of the things that I
can't even start to tell you about it

738
01:00:17,880 --> 01:00:22,360
without taking an hour of your time. So spring forward into a new way

739
01:00:22,360 --> 01:00:30,400
of looking at the Internet and a
new way of listening at Ricochet dot com.

740
01:00:30,440 --> 01:00:35,679
So, James, have you seen
Tetris yet? Yeah? I have,

741
01:00:36,440 --> 01:00:38,840
Well, I know, don't spoil
it from me. I'm halfway through.

742
01:00:39,480 --> 01:00:45,199
Okay. There does seem to be
a trend at the moment for movies

743
01:00:45,360 --> 01:00:53,760
and miniseries about tech. Yes,
yes, about yeah, so like not

744
01:00:53,840 --> 01:00:58,559
any sort of it's sort of stories
about it's odd, isn't it, Stories

745
01:00:58,559 --> 01:01:06,199
about kind of corporations behaving heroically and
beating the odds and triumphing. And this

746
01:01:06,239 --> 01:01:10,559
story really is about Nintendo and how
it managed to or at least tried to.

747
01:01:10,639 --> 01:01:15,840
I went no spoilers rights to Tetris
so it could it could it could

748
01:01:15,880 --> 01:01:19,880
package it up with game Boy when
it launched the game Boy. Similarly,

749
01:01:20,079 --> 01:01:24,280
there's a story just been released about
Air called Air right about the about this

750
01:01:24,599 --> 01:01:30,440
visionary marketing executive at Nike who came
up with the idea of having Michael Jordan

751
01:01:31,679 --> 01:01:40,599
endorse of shoe child slaves working really
hard. It goes it was odd.

752
01:01:40,599 --> 01:01:44,239
I mean, it's it's like there
was the Steve Jobs movie. I don't

753
01:01:44,239 --> 01:01:46,079
know if it was the first in
this genre a few years ago, but

754
01:01:46,119 --> 01:01:50,079
at least that showed his kind of
dark side as well as his light side.

755
01:01:50,079 --> 01:01:52,920
He wasn't portrayed as a kind of
you know, as a hero.

756
01:01:52,119 --> 01:01:55,039
But it's become you know, and
there was the there's the there's the playlist,

757
01:01:55,119 --> 01:01:58,280
of course, and there is there
is There were also, you know,

758
01:01:58,400 --> 01:02:01,880
some miniseries in which people like Elizabeth
Holmes aren't depicted in a terribly flattering

759
01:02:01,960 --> 01:02:05,280
light. But it's odd, isn't
it that this has become a kind of

760
01:02:05,360 --> 01:02:10,599
mini genre, both in movies and
on TV, stories about kind of corporations

761
01:02:10,840 --> 01:02:14,719
making money. Basically, what do
you think the agenda is? I mean,

762
01:02:14,760 --> 01:02:17,679
I think I've got my suspicions that
we are being we are being softened

763
01:02:17,760 --> 01:02:22,440
up for this world where we're controlled
by the machine people, and we've just

764
01:02:22,480 --> 01:02:27,719
got to be grateful for you to
your tech suppliers. Oh, isn't it

765
01:02:27,760 --> 01:02:35,280
wonderful that Nike air these these faceless, sinister Luciferian weirdos who want to take

766
01:02:35,320 --> 01:02:37,400
over the world. They your friends. Yeah, it's sort of like And

767
01:02:37,760 --> 01:02:43,800
I guess I probably the theme of
Airs was all about how kind of pursuing

768
01:02:43,960 --> 01:02:50,199
that late capitalism has this kind of
benign byproduct, which is to promote diversity

769
01:02:50,239 --> 01:02:54,559
and inclusion naturally as a way of
just making money. But I think the

770
01:02:55,159 --> 01:03:02,400
Tetris has been criticized for being too
aggressly pro capitalist and anti communist because it's

771
01:03:02,440 --> 01:03:08,280
depiction, yes, it's depiction of
the sort of the Soviet Union in its

772
01:03:08,360 --> 01:03:15,559
kind of dying days is pretty unsympathetic. And the way in which the inventor

773
01:03:15,679 --> 01:03:20,559
of Tetris is kind of presented as
kind of having earned nothing and having not

774
01:03:20,639 --> 01:03:24,000
been rewarded in any way, still
a kind of desk jockey in the kind

775
01:03:24,000 --> 01:03:29,480
of computer science division of the Soviet
government, even though he's invented this game,

776
01:03:29,519 --> 01:03:31,840
which is the most popular game in
the world, in contrast to you

777
01:03:31,840 --> 01:03:37,039
know, his American counterpart, who'd
be living in Beverly Hills with a supermodel

778
01:03:37,079 --> 01:03:40,679
and you know, flying everywhere by
helicopter. But but I thought, actually

779
01:03:40,679 --> 01:03:45,360
I thought that was slightly unfair,
because you know, you've got kind of

780
01:03:45,400 --> 01:03:47,480
good and bad people. In the
Soviet Union, You've got the kind of

781
01:03:47,800 --> 01:03:53,559
head of whatever it's called, the
Computer Science Government Department, where this guy

782
01:03:53,639 --> 01:03:59,400
works seemingly wanting to do the best
for his country but being thwarted by corrupt

783
01:03:59,599 --> 01:04:02,559
KG agents. And in the US
too, you've got kind of good capitalists

784
01:04:02,599 --> 01:04:08,280
like our hero Henk, but you've
also got bad capitalists like Robert Maxwell and

785
01:04:08,320 --> 01:04:12,360
his kind of ghastly son Kevin.
So it sort of seemed to be making

786
01:04:12,360 --> 01:04:15,320
a kind of moral equivalent sort of
argument there that there are kind of good

787
01:04:15,320 --> 01:04:20,559
and bad people in both communist societies
and capitalist societies, and capitalism isn't all

788
01:04:20,599 --> 01:04:25,239
good and communism isn't all bad.
So I thought, rather than being kind

789
01:04:25,280 --> 01:04:29,320
of, you know, aggressively pro
capitalist and anti communist, I thought it

790
01:04:29,400 --> 01:04:32,119
was suffering, if anything, from
the opposite fault. But just on I

791
01:04:32,199 --> 01:04:40,440
quite enjoyed the portrayal of Maxwell as
a kind of evil villain and Kevin thought

792
01:04:40,440 --> 01:04:44,679
I thought, I thought it was
a little bit unfair on Kevin because he's

793
01:04:44,719 --> 01:04:47,159
never been convicted of fraud, and
it was quite careful. Actually, it's

794
01:04:47,159 --> 01:04:53,559
sort of it tiptoes around this idea
that Kevin was complicit in Robert Maxwell's attempts

795
01:04:53,599 --> 01:04:59,199
to bribe Soviet officials in order to
acquire the rights to Tetris himself or on

796
01:04:59,239 --> 01:05:02,719
behalf of the Mirror group Mirrorsoft.
I think it's company was cool. Um,

797
01:05:02,920 --> 01:05:05,920
And you have kind of Kevin leaving
the room. You know when when

798
01:05:05,960 --> 01:05:12,239
when when when Maxwell tries to bribe
the kind of KGB officer And clearly kind

799
01:05:12,280 --> 01:05:15,800
of were not wanting to kind of
libel Kevin in a way which is actionable,

800
01:05:15,800 --> 01:05:18,360
But the whole portrait of Kevin is
kind of, for me felt quite

801
01:05:18,440 --> 01:05:24,159
kind of libelous. It's so unsympathetic, cartoonishly unsympathetic. I just felt for

802
01:05:24,199 --> 01:05:27,920
me, it just kind of lacked
credibility. It was implausible that this kind

803
01:05:27,920 --> 01:05:30,000
of he would be quite such an
asshole. I don't know what he do,

804
01:05:30,960 --> 01:05:34,199
but you must not. You mean
you knew the Maxwell children, didn't

805
01:05:34,239 --> 01:05:36,159
you? No? I didn't.
I never I've never met them. Actually

806
01:05:36,280 --> 01:05:39,480
I met Kid, I'm sorry,
I met Gilaine, but I haven't met

807
01:05:39,480 --> 01:05:42,800
the others. I met Colline but
in New York, but I've never met

808
01:05:43,400 --> 01:05:45,639
the other two. The two boys. I mean, I'm not sure I've

809
01:05:45,760 --> 01:05:49,480
I've got a jack a dog in
this fight. I don't think i've met

810
01:05:50,440 --> 01:05:54,320
what's the other one called? The
one is not Kevin. Yeah, there's

811
01:05:54,320 --> 01:05:56,480
another one, isn't there? I
can't remember now. Yeah, But I

812
01:05:56,880 --> 01:06:00,880
mean, look, I surely the
apple doesn't fall to far from the tree.

813
01:06:00,000 --> 01:06:04,920
I would imagine that that Kevin was
a sort of ruthless vulture capitalist,

814
01:06:05,039 --> 01:06:10,159
that was all right. I wasn't
sort of getting vibes that he was particularly

815
01:06:10,239 --> 01:06:15,760
any more corrupt than any other sort
of Maxwell associate or or somebody, you

816
01:06:15,800 --> 01:06:20,760
know, as I say, vulture
capitalists, but I thought it probably he

817
01:06:20,760 --> 01:06:27,400
probably was like that. Then I
thought I thought it was just sometimes it's

818
01:06:27,440 --> 01:06:32,079
I mean sometimes the kind of characterization
I thought was a bit one dimensional and

819
01:06:32,239 --> 01:06:36,000
cartoonie, and I wasn't quite sure
whether it was intended to be or not.

820
01:06:36,119 --> 01:06:40,800
I mean, it sort of there
was a sort of running motif through

821
01:06:40,840 --> 01:06:45,239
the film that they were kind of
basing it on Tetris, So you were

822
01:06:45,320 --> 01:06:47,400
kind of it divided up into level
one, level two, level three,

823
01:06:47,480 --> 01:06:50,679
level four. And there's a car
chase at the end. James, When

824
01:06:50,719 --> 01:06:56,400
when when the cars become almost like
tetris pieces and kind of pixelate as they're

825
01:06:56,440 --> 01:07:00,360
going around corners and start crashing.
Quite clever. But but but it seemed

826
01:07:00,360 --> 01:07:03,280
to be wanting to kind of but
actually the kind of I don't know it

827
01:07:03,320 --> 01:07:08,400
was, but it seemed to be
more artistically ambitious than that. It wasn't

828
01:07:08,440 --> 01:07:13,559
just trying to create a kind of
video game like film. It was doing

829
01:07:13,599 --> 01:07:16,519
that in a kind of playful way, just to add a bit of texture,

830
01:07:16,519 --> 01:07:18,679
I thought to the narrative, and
I thought in other respects it was

831
01:07:18,760 --> 01:07:23,920
quite well done. But I just
felt it was a little bit cartoonish in

832
01:07:24,000 --> 01:07:29,559
particularly it's portrayal of of the Maxwells. I thought that was actually ones I

833
01:07:29,599 --> 01:07:31,239
liked about it because it seemed to
me a classic. It was you know,

834
01:07:31,280 --> 01:07:38,320
it was produced by Matthew Vaughan and
and I saw that Claudia Claudia Winkleman.

835
01:07:38,760 --> 01:07:41,760
But who appears as Claudia Vaughan in
the credits, Yeah, oh no,

836
01:07:41,760 --> 01:07:46,320
no, no, produced by Claudia
Schiffer. Is Matthew Well the producer?

837
01:07:46,320 --> 01:07:48,800
I don't, I don't know,
I don't know. Maybe so maybe

838
01:07:48,840 --> 01:07:55,559
it is. Yeah, But my
point for what it's worth is it is

839
01:07:55,599 --> 01:08:00,480
just that I quite there's a sort
of there's a style, there's a slickness

840
01:08:00,519 --> 01:08:03,639
that Matthew Vaughn movies have, which
although he didn't direct it, something called

841
01:08:03,679 --> 01:08:11,519
john S Baird directed directed it.
Um that they're very digestible, they're very

842
01:08:11,559 --> 01:08:15,639
easy to watch. They're very you
don't you don't sit, they're being bored,

843
01:08:15,639 --> 01:08:19,119
They're very they're very professional somehow,
and I liked it. I didn't

844
01:08:19,199 --> 01:08:24,199
feel that I didn't feel irritated by
it, which is what one quite often

845
01:08:24,279 --> 01:08:29,479
does with with films. By the
way, have you seen that? My

846
01:08:29,479 --> 01:08:32,239
My other recommend yet that the one
warsailor well, you know, I did

847
01:08:32,279 --> 01:08:36,239
watch I watched part one of War
Sailia. There are three parts, right,

848
01:08:36,239 --> 01:08:39,760
so I watched out one. I
haven't yet watched parts two and three,

849
01:08:39,800 --> 01:08:43,399
but I did think it was quite
good. That it gets very depressing

850
01:08:43,439 --> 01:08:48,880
in episode three. Um, but
I just repeat my my recommendation for that

851
01:08:49,039 --> 01:08:53,880
one. So we've both seen Tetris. Anything else we need to? Oh,

852
01:08:53,880 --> 01:08:57,760
you've seen you've seen Utred the movie, haven't you? Yeah? Seven?

853
01:08:57,760 --> 01:09:00,279
I think it's called called Seven Kings
Must Die. It's a book.

854
01:09:00,319 --> 01:09:06,760
It starts with a prophecy, so
Finnan his kind of Irish sidekick. Rod's

855
01:09:06,800 --> 01:09:12,680
Irish sidekick is married at the beginning
of the film, and his wife has

856
01:09:12,720 --> 01:09:18,279
a dream repeatedly, and she she
thinks it's a prophecy, and it's that

857
01:09:18,399 --> 01:09:24,600
seven kings must die before and a
woman and the woman Finn and loves must

858
01:09:24,640 --> 01:09:30,439
die too before before India can kind
of emerge triumphant. And it's clearly intended

859
01:09:30,560 --> 01:09:38,000
as a as a kind of bookend
to the entire story. And I was

860
01:09:38,039 --> 01:09:42,560
expecting it to be quite poor because
I heard bad things about it. And

861
01:09:43,800 --> 01:09:45,239
I don't think it's too much of
a spoiler to tell you, James that

862
01:09:45,399 --> 01:09:50,960
Ethelston goes off the rails at the
beginning of the film because he is blackmailed

863
01:09:51,119 --> 01:09:57,600
by his gay lover, who essentially
has persuades him that in order to be

864
01:09:57,960 --> 01:10:01,760
a good Christian, he has to
atone for the sin of being a homosexual

865
01:10:01,800 --> 01:10:10,840
and engaging in homosexual relations with his
kind of moral guide by conquering the various

866
01:10:10,880 --> 01:10:14,600
different parts of England in a particularly
brutal and totalitarian way. But turns out

867
01:10:14,600 --> 01:10:17,079
he's gotten a gender and he's doing
it for self interested reasons, the gay

868
01:10:17,119 --> 01:10:20,880
lover. But but but I thought, oh, you know, I had

869
01:10:20,920 --> 01:10:25,039
heard that the character of Ethelston turns
out to be gay, and I thought,

870
01:10:25,039 --> 01:10:27,119
oh my god, is this going
to be part of some kind of

871
01:10:27,279 --> 01:10:31,399
woke ification of the history of England. You know that one of the greatest

872
01:10:31,520 --> 01:10:39,479
kings that ever lived, who was
responsible for unifying the different kingdoms and creating

873
01:10:39,960 --> 01:10:43,199
England as we know it, is
he going to turn out to be gay?

874
01:10:43,359 --> 01:10:45,720
Is that going to be some kind
of diversity and inclusion point? But

875
01:10:45,800 --> 01:10:50,439
actually his gayness is a huge handicap
and his gay lover is the villain of

876
01:10:50,479 --> 01:10:57,039
the stories, So it's anything anti
woke. So and actually it was reasonably

877
01:10:57,039 --> 01:10:59,880
well done. I haven't seen have
you seen Season five? I did,

878
01:11:00,119 --> 01:11:04,279
but you see. So here's the
thing. I'm not sure that I could

879
01:11:04,359 --> 01:11:12,439
go back to watching TV Ughtred having
listened to the audio books of the of

880
01:11:12,479 --> 01:11:16,199
the Bernard Cornwall, because what you've
become very aware of, um when you

881
01:11:16,239 --> 01:11:21,560
read the books is how much they've
been compressed for the purposes of the TV

882
01:11:21,760 --> 01:11:28,840
series, to the point where like
something that might take five chapters in five

883
01:11:29,279 --> 01:11:34,159
engrossing chapters in the book becomes a
shot of Utred setting off and then arriving

884
01:11:34,159 --> 01:11:41,479
on a beach six months later,
and a lot of the subtlers I think

885
01:11:41,640 --> 01:11:45,520
lost in the TV series not helped
by the fact that a German model plays

886
01:11:45,720 --> 01:11:54,760
Outred and English is not all yeah
yeah, yeah, weird fu arad And

887
01:11:55,119 --> 01:11:59,880
and I think that in the early
stages, I mean, I hated to

888
01:12:00,079 --> 01:12:02,279
fend the BBC, but when it
was a BBC production, you had well

889
01:12:02,279 --> 01:12:06,720
maybe it was coincided with a period
in the books where you had Alfred and

890
01:12:06,760 --> 01:12:13,880
the guy playing Alfred, was it
be brilliant? And then in the later

891
01:12:13,880 --> 01:12:16,960
epid the latest seasons, you again, I don't know whether this is just

892
01:12:17,000 --> 01:12:21,560
a false memory, but you seem
to have more of that keening, faux

893
01:12:21,600 --> 01:12:28,319
Irish wailing theme tune music at every
every moment, was stabbing in on every

894
01:12:28,359 --> 01:12:32,000
scene, and it becomes rather ritating. Yeah. And also the kind of

895
01:12:32,239 --> 01:12:36,359
they ladled on, the kind of
ultra violence when it when it switched from

896
01:12:36,359 --> 01:12:40,479
the BBC to Netflix, which and
it was sort of it had a kind

897
01:12:40,520 --> 01:12:44,239
of, you know, a family
friendly vibe when it was you know,

898
01:12:44,279 --> 01:12:46,520
in seasons one and two when it
was a BBC production, which it didn't

899
01:12:46,600 --> 01:12:49,640
have when it moved to Netflix.
And I didn't much like that because although

900
01:12:50,600 --> 01:12:57,680
it's very true too. I find
it disturbing how much Bernard Cornwall gets off

901
01:12:57,880 --> 01:13:03,760
on bone bone splintering violence. I
mean I cringe whenever we get another battle

902
01:13:04,000 --> 01:13:09,960
scene. He describes that the shield
wall and the shit and the urine and

903
01:13:09,760 --> 01:13:14,680
and and the and and and He's
very good at describing in a graphic way,

904
01:13:15,239 --> 01:13:19,359
um viole an injury. I mean, I don't know how how how

905
01:13:19,359 --> 01:13:23,319
could you do that? How could
you? How could you describe in so

906
01:13:23,359 --> 01:13:28,880
many different ways what he's like?
Yeah, he has. He's like he's

907
01:13:28,880 --> 01:13:32,279
the equivalent of a kind of pulp
fiction eskimo. He has kind of you

908
01:13:32,319 --> 01:13:38,119
know, twenty seven different words for
crushing someone's skull. He really does it

909
01:13:38,239 --> 01:13:42,520
does I mean, because when I
used to write novels, I used to

910
01:13:44,079 --> 01:13:47,359
have difficulty describing what happens when there
is a traumatic injury caused by a bullet

911
01:13:47,439 --> 01:13:53,439
or a or a shell that might
take your arm off or whatever. But

912
01:13:53,439 --> 01:13:58,840
but Cornwall is right in there.
He really wading up. He's like he's

913
01:13:58,880 --> 01:14:00,680
like a vet. He's got his
got his hand stuck right up the cow's

914
01:14:00,720 --> 01:14:03,479
bottom. He's into the love it. Yeah, Yeah, he doesn't look

915
01:14:03,520 --> 01:14:09,199
away when someone loses there when an
arm is severed, does he He doesn't.

916
01:14:10,600 --> 01:14:16,000
Yeah, Yeah, anyway, I
suppose I won't go away, are

917
01:14:16,039 --> 01:14:20,359
you I'm going I'm going to be
away next week? Are you gonna be

918
01:14:20,359 --> 01:14:24,079
away next week? Yes? Where
are you going to be? What times?

919
01:14:24,079 --> 01:14:26,520
Then? Are you going to be
in? Well, I'm I'm I'm

920
01:14:26,560 --> 01:14:30,640
going to be in the Canadian time
zone. I'm going to be I'm going

921
01:14:30,640 --> 01:14:34,600
on a trip across the Canadian Rockies
in a train. It's a travel piece

922
01:14:34,720 --> 01:14:40,279
for a new Spectator travel supplement.
Um so I'm I'm I think I'm starting

923
01:14:40,319 --> 01:14:44,840
in Vancouver and ending in Bampf.
But haven't you got to be jabbed?

924
01:14:45,119 --> 01:14:46,600
They stopped the jab require Now they
stopped the jab You don't have to be

925
01:14:46,680 --> 01:14:54,159
jabbed to go to Canada anymore.
Yeah, jab zombies probably you'll probably get

926
01:14:54,199 --> 01:14:57,039
You'll probably get whatever. You know, they'll shed ale over you and you'll

927
01:14:57,119 --> 01:15:01,800
die of whatever whatever, jabb us, you'll get my card tabes. Sorry,

928
01:15:01,840 --> 01:15:03,920
Mat, And it was nice knowing
you. So where are you going,

929
01:15:04,039 --> 01:15:06,319
James? I'm going, Well,
you see, I'm going to the

930
01:15:06,319 --> 01:15:10,920
opposite time zone, so we're going
to be in trouble. I'm going I'm

931
01:15:10,920 --> 01:15:15,640
going to Hong Kong. Okay,
what are you doing in Hong Kong seeing

932
01:15:15,680 --> 01:15:18,920
my seeing my family? Right?
Okay, Um, well, we'll have

933
01:15:18,960 --> 01:15:24,199
to try and work it out because
we can't deprive our listeners of an episode.

934
01:15:24,079 --> 01:15:27,000
Yeah, apparently on one of the
one of the warnings I've been given

935
01:15:27,079 --> 01:15:30,880
is that on this train as it
kind of creeps across the Canadian rockies,

936
01:15:30,359 --> 01:15:36,119
Um, there's there's there's no Wi
Fi and sometimes no telephone signal either,

937
01:15:36,439 --> 01:15:41,359
so I have but we are in
hotels at night, so presumably that will

938
01:15:41,359 --> 01:15:44,039
work because that'll be your morning time. Anyway, we'll see if you can

939
01:15:44,079 --> 01:15:45,840
work it out. Are you are
you going with wife or is this a

940
01:15:45,880 --> 01:15:49,279
solo solo? Are you going to? So this is your this is your

941
01:15:49,359 --> 01:15:54,720
this is your paypack basically for the
tennis holiday in barb my wife's trip to

942
01:15:54,720 --> 01:15:57,239
Barbados. Yeah it is. Yeah, but I'll only be going for like

943
01:15:57,279 --> 01:16:00,880
four or five days, so it's
not quite quite a way to go for

944
01:16:00,880 --> 01:16:06,520
for um A, I mean for
the jet lack, isn't it? It

945
01:16:06,600 --> 01:16:09,840
is quite Yeah. I know by
the time I've adjusted, I'll be on

946
01:16:09,840 --> 01:16:15,479
my way home again. Yeah,
but hey, chances are you Yeah,

947
01:16:15,520 --> 01:16:18,520
I deserve it. I've been going, I've been going, you know,

948
01:16:19,760 --> 01:16:24,039
nuts, so you don't have to
be jabbed to get into Hong Kong.

949
01:16:25,119 --> 01:16:30,640
They've they've stopped all that so that
they gave up on masks about a month

950
01:16:30,640 --> 01:16:36,239
ago, and they gave up on
even PCR testing. Joke that that is,

951
01:16:36,319 --> 01:16:40,039
you don't even have to do the
PCR test now. Okay, So

952
01:16:40,319 --> 01:16:45,720
Hong Kong is back to normal until
they until the who invents the next crisis,

953
01:16:45,840 --> 01:16:53,279
be it bird flu or whatever.
So well we'll have to try and

954
01:16:53,359 --> 01:16:56,239
coordinate. And of course we've got
Paul Bryan are producer to think about.

955
01:16:56,239 --> 01:17:00,560
It isn't another times and almogether true. So it's going to be hell big

956
01:17:00,600 --> 01:17:04,079
coordination problem, but I hope we
can solve it. Okay, right,

957
01:17:04,279 --> 01:17:12,159
okay, all right, James,
right, all right, by its unfold

958
01:17:27,720 --> 01:17:30,000
Ricochet, join the conversation