Hello and welcome to another edition of the Paranormal Concept Show. I'm your host
Paul Brook and as always we are live exclusive on the p A UK Radio
network, and as normal, we are joined in the studio by Kerry Greenway.
Hello, Kerry, Hello, how are you? I'm not too bad
things? How have you been over the last month that I've not spoken to
you for? I think it's more too really honest, clime is just flying
by at the moment, flying by. Now we all need to give up
work. No, I'm very well, thank you? Good, good,
good. So what are we talking about tonight? We thought we'd have a
little talk about we're delving back into our investigation kind of world and we're going
to have a little talk about equipment because this has been a thing that's been
kind of like trending recently about the criticism about the equipment is quite paramount.
Yeah, and should you use it? Shouldn't you use it? What good
is it? All of this coming so there's a lot of new things being
released as well. Um, so we thought we'd have a little chat about
equipment. But I thought a friend, Oh did you bring? Um?
I bought the lovely Gemilye Dreary onto the show tonight, good evening, Gems.
Oh are you okay? Very well? Thank you. You've been in
the paranormal for a heck of a long time, haven't you, James.
Give everybody an idea of your background in regards to the investigation side. Oh
where do we start? So oh hilarious, pot It started off many many
moons ago for me. We're talking childhood, you know the score. Most
people started the same way, seeing Most Haunted on the TV and then popping
off with your friends and a conflict box and a homemade wigi board. Right,
this is normal. We've all done it. Yeah. And then throughout
the years, I've owned my own ghost hunting companies where the members of the
public have been out on investigations. I've worked with pretty big names to be
fair in the industry. And then alongside that, you know, you guys
know what I'm like. You've known me for long enough. I'm actually really
intrigued when it comes to the equipment side of things, and to the extent
where I used to take them to pieces, find out how they worked,
and then try and put them back together, which is one of the reasons
I brought her along to the show because she's a lot better on the equipment
than me personally, because, as I've said many times on this show,
I work when spirits and the you know, like they feel the energy kind
of thing. So one of the first tools that we all tend to go
into, or you're talking about, is the K two meter. Yes,
because everybody loves a flashy light, right, Also, do you do what
do you worsh your vibe on them? Paul? Rubbish, absolutely rubbish.
All it is is just a box with flashy lights when something in appears with
it, which is the electric magnetic fields as well as mobile phones and all
the other sort of electrical equipment that ghost hunters use. It's not very love,
very good, okay, Gemma, I mean, don't beat around the
bus there, Paul. Well, yeah, I can't really argue with what
Paul's saying there. In all fairness, the biggest fault, I mean,
let's look at this realistically, one of the biggest faults with a K two
meter is a light flashes when something affects the emh. Okay, but that's
something isn't necessarily a ghost. It could be the floor, could be the
ceiling, it could be mobile phone signals like Paul's just said, some some
classic, especially in older buildings. A lot of people use it in older
buildings like stately homes and things like that. A lot of the furniture will
set off a K two meter or any em meter. Me and Kerry was
on an investigation where we use a data logger to pick up EMF readians and
we kept getting fluctuations every half an hour or so, didn't we And we
worked it out that it was actually coincided with the trains just half a mile
down the road. Yeah, this is what I mean that people sell them,
and great people have made some quite big, well known companies out of
selling equipment. The one thing I don't understand is how can you say it
does something without any scientific proof to back it up? So where does this
come from? This electromagnetic field is a ghost kind of vibe? Well,
why why do we think? Why is this a thing? It could come
from absolutely anywhere, couldn't it really? I mean Mother and prophecies for one,
it was it's in there that there was a change in the EMF when
spirit was nearby. Or I'm going back to work, mothman, you know
you're talking men in black and everything, aren't you both and when apparently with
each encounter affected the emath. So I suppose this theory has been a whi
around for a very long time. I think what keeps it alive, that's
you know, the idea is that when someone goes if you're there, come
close, and then all of a sudden lights light up. It might be
a complete coincidence. It could be something else. It could be, you
know, your mobile phone interference. There's so many things other that it could
be. But because someone's just throwing a question out into the ether, it's
lit up at that particular time, and they think it's an intelligent response.
Where to be fair, we don't even know whether or not there are such
things as ghosts that can interfere with your electric magnetic field. At the end
of the day, it's a difficult one, isn't it, because they obviously
come through on a different frequency. Yeah. Yeah, if you know,
going on the assumption that goes in spirits are real, okay, Yeah,
And I think we'll have to go with this for the evening, just the
assumptions that it will happen that they are there, and that is my belief
system. So you know, we're going to go with that one. So
they're not on the same frequency as us. Otherwise we would be able to
see them and hear them, and you know, all of us would be
able to because we're on the same frequency. Yeah, so within reason,
within reason. However, when you talk about a different frequency, we're talking
about electromagnetic fields. I did a show once, a long, long,
long time a goal regarding what electromagnetic fields are, and that's to do with
the light and radio spectrum, it isn't it. Yeah, yeah, so
I can understand why in a different light spectrum you may possibly it might be
easier for them to be on than this frequency that we're on. And that's
probably where the crossover has come from. Is that trying to link into the
different frequency that's there, and because something's interfering with the different frequencies, it's
got to be a ghost. Have either of you had any encounter should I
say with a Katim said that you found abnormal to Because let's be fair,
when you go onto an investigation, you should do a baseline check. Absolutely.
I mean, in the ideal case scenario, when you're doing an investigation,
you would put your earmf meeters down and not move them. You wouldn't
just watching them, do you know what I mean? In the ideal scenario,
so that there would be nothing there to interfere with it, especially not
the human form because we can transmit quite easily. So yeah, question,
Yes, I personally had an experience where any er mathemeter has gone off and
it shouldn't have done because there's no signal, no, nothing completely underground,
five miles underground, like you know, nothing should be penetrating down there unless
you're near a cul siam or something like that. I mean, I'm talking
drakelow tunnels. There's not a lot around that now. You're not talking like
a mining type because you know, certain minerals will admit their own electromagnetic magnetic
frequency and you cannot take out the earth. The earth actual electromagnetic fields either
in regards to it has a electrical pulse that runs through it because geologists charge
batteries by plugging it into the ground and using the tech I can't remember what
it's called, the tech tonic charge or something it's called. Yeah, so
there is effectively something, but there is has also got to be electricity down
now, because wasn't it quite recently a few years back, someone was growing
weed down there. Really yeah. Yeah, upon someone boarded up a section
of it and they were growing tweed. So they had to have the whole
um hydroponics stuff down there. But that's another that's another show. That one
pause. My point is they needed the electricity to there is There is a
generator down that there is, but I never turned it on. Electricity,
Yeah, completely void. When I did drake Looad Tunnels, I didn't hire
it out. I did hire it out for public, but when I went
and did my personal investigations, it was me on one other person. No,
no generator turned on in there. But as far as I'm aware of
the electrics in there anyway, only run to a certain point, which is
just past the base room, which isn't that far from the entrance in all
fairness. So once you actually get into the tunnels, and I don't expect
anybody to know where I mean, but I was like the crossroads where everybody
plays that the sea this shape shifter. Anybody that's got any knowledge of Drakelow
Tunnels that you'll know exactly where I mean. Then, so there's there's nothing,
there is absolutely nothing around that at all. It's developed in it,
and it's actually quite interesting that where it went off, it's actually a place
where people have reported activity. Yeah in itself, Paul, have you ever
had a K two experience that you thought, hang on a minute, that
that's not right. M I've had the when people thrown out questions, I've
had responses, but that's about as far as it goes. But to prove
my point a little bit about the KT meter being not very good, we
was in I think it was for Amherst in Ken and when people were thrown
out questions, it kept going to red constantly after every response that it wasn't
until they had all gone that I actually picked it up and changed the batteries
and then it started working again because the batteries were low, and that's the
way it signaled that it was the batteries were low. But I didn't realize
and see what I picked up the K two afterwards, But everyone sort of
thought, Okay, you intelligent, you know what's things going on here?
You know that occasion, everybody would have left, would have left having a
great night, thinking that they've had some wonderful responses though, right, so
absolutely totally, yeah, each to their own. I suppose it's the little
things. Patricks are a good thing, right until they do that? Yeah?
Do that? Okay, So that's like, that's like a basic piece
of kit that most people will invest in, isn't it? The ktwo meter?
Going on from that? What other pieces of equipment? The boobt is
just a ktio Meter's had a Teddy bear? Right, Yeah? Do we
know of any others? Well, the eddy that's a ktio meter. That's
pretty much. Yeah, a K two meter. There's loads, There is
absolutely loads of them. We have lots of variations off the back. Have
a K two meter. And that's the point, isn't it. Yeah?
I mean yeah, to understand your kit, you have to understand a basic
K two meter from what it does and what it's measuring and how it measures.
It complicated. Well, the funniest thing that I always find really interesting
is when you speak to people and you're like, okay, so what is
it about We'll stick with a K two because you know, we've already touched
on K two anyway I say touched on it. I think we've just bulled
it to pieces some't we When you say to people, what is it about
a K two that you liked. They're like, oh, it tells you
by flashing lights whether or not there's a ghost. By well, how do
you know if it's a ghost because of the EMF? Okay, but what
is EMF? And then you get to boil and then people struggle, and
then you get told that you're you're skeptic or you're a complete nonbeliever. Well
I disagree with that because if that was the case, I wouldn't still be
into the paranormal in any single way, shape or form. Would I have
after these amount of years? I would have gone, I've had my film,
now I'm done. People don't like to actually look into what it is,
and that's the bit that worries me. Yeah, they always regurgitell you
what other people told them. Yeah, they've not actually looked into themselves.
Do we think then, I mean, I know we're coming slightly off topic,
we're going more into a discussion. Do we think then that, because
the point was, do we think we've progressed at all in regards to equipment
in the paranormal field? I don't see an awful lot of progression yet from
what I've seen, it feels very same e same or variations on the same
thing. Well, I've been out of the paranormal field for what two three
years with having baby and issues before that, personal health issues took me out
of the field. So although didn't particularly take me out the field, but
it's taken me away from being out there and actually using the equipment and seeing
how it works and looking into it and stuff. So o, those what
three years that I've not been as active, will say, I'm not really
seeing any change whatsoever. Oh, there's big changes out there. We've gone
from rectangle kt meters to pyramid ones, and we've gone from boo buddies to
haunted dolls with cameras in their eyes. Yes, we have. We have.
Actually I saw that. That's a little bit scary because if you've watched
Sword and you understand why that is a little bit scary. Get too close
to the dough is all answer, certainly. Okay. So the other piece,
there's another piece of equipment that seems to be that the must have is
a laser grid. Yeah, that enthusiasm is killing me. That possible for
that and oh what was it the paranum wactivity on it. Yeah, when
they had the laser grid thing and you see the shadow and people thought,
oh, yeah, we've got to do that. I mean, to be
fair, my cat absolutely loves a laser grid. She's in an element.
Yeah. You know what. One thing that bugs me in a paranlen investigation,
especially the private ones when the clients have got cats, is that some
on my team will let's sit there with the laser gun the temperature gun and
play with a cat with the laser and it's to take temperatures with not play
with cats anyway. Laser grid, so basically this is a laser pen that
sends out a grid formation with lots of different like green or red lights basically
focused on a specific area. And the idea is that ghost will pass through
it and you'll be able to see the movement across the lasers. So it's
obviously if you walk in front of it, the laser bounces off the object
going in front of it. But our ghost see through. They're not tangible,
are they? They're not substantial? No, so why would a laser
then bounce off that. We're pretty much working off the assumption that a ghost
is energy, right, yes, so there's nothing substantial there, So how
is that going to affect a grid? And a lot of how I'm Suti
are like giving you you and Paul like she's giving sign language everybody, and
you should see some of the expressions that are coming out with their hands.
I think you know one plausible explanation for that could be the the spirit energy
isn't solid, so yeah, light could pass through it. But could it
also not absorb the laser energy? Quite possibly, because if you if you
shine I don't know, if you shine a torch light bulb it's on,
it's it absorbs the light doesn't go through it, does it. No,
I'm going to try that now, just see the ball. Start looking at
a light you shine in the light by a light beam at that you,
it probably won't go through. It would diffuse it wouldn't it the light itself,
So you wouldn't actually see like the beam of light from a torch coming
through and out the other side, because all you'd see is probably a stronger
light coming out there said in a diffused way. Yeah, but then what
do I know? I mean, I tried the laser good thing, and
nothing's ever materialized in it that I can see. So I've never had any
joy over a laser grid. No, I'm not going to pretend. I
have seen them use a laser grid with a smoke palette. Yeah, yes
as well, and I've seen some very interesting shapes fall within that I got
with that, Yeah, that could just be the paradolia though it could be
paradolia. It could be. But when you're again we go back to the
K two effect of when you're asking specific questions and things are forming within the
smoke within the laser grid. The laser basically is like giving the light to
the smoke is all that that's doing. And because obviously a torch through smoke
would be a smaller spectrum, so you've got a wider spectrum of light going
through the laser grid with the smoke. And this is actually that I've seen
this worked with mediums and they're like, oh, look at this, you
know, look at what's appearing in the flat. It almost takes it to
a level of divination, doesn't it. Yeah, rather than a scientific measuring
of something. So does that make it any irrelevant piece of kit or does
that make it an interesting piece of kit? Bearing in mind, you do
have to take into account the paradilia effect. I think a lot of it
would depend on a lot of aspects. Really to be fair, I mean
the people that you're with, to begin with the type of laser grid that
you're using, because as Paul identified with a K two meter, butchers are
a real issue. And then obviously I think looking into the type, especially
for me, the type of pen used would be the important factor there,
I think. I mean, there's so many different weren't just talking laser pens
and grids, Like when you look on the market, there is so many
different types laser grids out there that it's some real and the price range it's
phenomenal, starting off at what basic six pound on Amazon two three hundred pound
on some paranormal equipment sites. That's what shocks me, I think, is
the amount of funny that's being charged for these pieces of equipment. Now,
another thing that is very common on a paranormal investigation is the spirit box.
Now, the reason I'm bringing all these basic ones up faces because a lot
of the equipment nowadays bounces off the initial baseline kit that you will start with,
right, ye, spirit box. I love a spirit box. I'm
not going to protect end to not I do love a spirit box. In
the darks kind of things to myself, I don't know why it does,
and I have had it interesting responses through the spirit box when it's gone over
the rotation. So if you get like a word or a phrase that goes
over the rotations, yeah, the sweeps, then that becomes interesting. If
it's a snatched word or song or something like that, the chances are it's
a radio frequency it's picking up right. Yeah. Does it depend on the
sweep frequency, like the how often it sweeps? Yes? So what's the
optiman? Do we know the optiman? Oh? God, now you're testing
my memory. I think it varies, doesn't it on? I think it
could be the strength of the if it is a spirit talking, it could
be dependent on the strength the type, as we all know that there's allegedly
different types of Hornians and spirits. Now, I mean the sweep on the
spirit box itself. So, like you know, rather than because you can
vary the quickness of the haven't you on your basic five speeds? Um?
I mean I personally go for the fastest one because then it's harder. For
bearing in mind, all that's doing is running through legitimate like radio stations and
taxicabs et cetera. Do you know, I mean they're all interfering. Um.
So I always used to go for the higher one, so the quicker,
which because then it's harder words to actually get through, Whereas if it's
slower, more like if it's picking up on it on a taxicab, it's
easier for the words to come in, Whereas if it's that quick, I
suppose in my opinion, it makes it that a little bit more difficult for
comprehendable words to come through. Fair point. When I do investigations more so
now I actually use two headsets to plug into the one SP seven and sit
the people that's listening back to back, and then I'll have a separate person
asking the questions. And when these two people sitting back to back here a
word, they just shout it out a random but they'll stepping into the S
T S experiment. Yeah, that's essentially what we're doing. M No.
We tend to record on camera what was asked and said and stuff. But
we've had some interesting results from that. But we're still tweaking it. You
know. Next time, I think I'm going to add someone asking the questions
from a different room in the same room. That would be interesting. Yeah,
it's one of the major criticisms like, obviously the STS experiment came with
the Stanley Hotel, the Ghost of Stanley Hotel, and then into Hellier that
and then exploded onto the paranormal saying didn't it really? And obviously that thing
comes from the gangs Field experiments. They've tweets the gangs Field experiment into the
STS experiment. Now that works. If you've got noise canceling headphones, do
you literally can't hear anything other than the SP seven or SP Spirit Box.
You will say, doesn't matter which one you use, um, and it
does. It's about the integrity of the investigators you're using. Yeah, this
is why I don't tend to go out on public investigations anymore. And I'm
very selective one who I vote on investigations, and I'd like to keep them
small with a small group of people. I find that very interesting because I
do think we do have something called audio paradilia as well. Just watch Pak's
sketch for that, yes, which is misheard some lyrics hilarious if anybody's interested.
But I do find the experiment itself very interesting because I do think that
you're you know, you are linking through in a different way. And if
you are asking questions in a separate room and the phrases coming out from the
spirit box and being all you know, said by whoever's sitting there on the
spirit box with headphones, do find that incredibly interesting? I'm not going to
pretend I don't. I've not actually performed that experiment myself. Jemmy, have
you had a go at that one? I have many times? Yeah,
And what was your take on it? Sorry? Really loud traffic noise going
past my house today, So yeah, I like it. But again,
I think it depends who you're with. I think that is the massive one.
You've got to be with people that you trust to be able to do
this, because with all the best intention in the world, as human beings
are very fragile creatures, aren't we, And when we get into something,
we can transmit information between each other almost like telepathically. I agree. I
agree. So that's why the separation separate rooms sort of takes that out a
little bit because there is no influence. Yeah, although if you know there
is a spirit there and he's in the room with the person asking the question,
surely aster he's I've got the question, he's got to run to the
other group in the other room and give him the answer, and then he's
got run back for the next question. Here's a spirit. Yeah, not
necessarily. Well, you don't no idea it's to be like three hundred miles
away. Do you just have to be in the next room. So the
chances of whoever's got the headphones on is not. I understand what you're saying,
and for the safety experiment, it's fantastic. But if the spirit's in
there with a say, for example, you're asking in one room and I'm
in the other doing the headphones bit, you're going to ask him the question
in the front room and then he's going to stick his head out the door
and go. But you know when you said, bloh, what's your name?
He's got to shout out. But so I can hear it, not
necessarily, I'm frequensive, is it? If they're not, they're not.
You've got to remember they're not like a person in the same room. You've
got to get out of their thinking that a spirit would be something that would
have to move necessarily. If they're on a free different frequency and that's what
you're linking into, then it doesn't matter, does it. I don't know.
I really don't know the answers for that one. I can't ask you.
I can't argue to be fair. So I mean, let's let's look
at this though. Let's look at this bit, right, okay, because
this is where it gets really really interesting. So Mike Post said, a
spirit's going to have to run from one room to another, which physical beings
is an issue, right, we would have to personally pop in and out.
But spirits not just materialized from the wall. I've seen it many times
on TV to see from me, they're like it's like it's almost like that
it's they can be here and there, do you know what I mean?
Because it's they're not tied by the physical And I think that's that you have
to get your head around, Like I could be conversing with the spirit,
but they could also be some you know, like conversing. I'll swear at
the same time a bit, I don't want to go as far as omnipresent.
I don't think she's going omnipresent everyone. I don't want to go as
broad as that, like we would talk about in regards to like angels or
God even, but I would say that they're less restricted by the They're totally
not restricted by the physical matter that we we see as barriers. Yeah,
absolutely, I agree with that. Actually, but then is that because I'm
now because I've all of a sudden got started my spiritual journey, So you
know, maybe I'm seeing things slightly different now to what I would have done
a few years ago. So if I'm talking to my spirit guide, they
could also be relaying the same information to somebody else in another location very easily.
Yeah. If but then wanted to like, if you do a group
meditation and you're all linking into the same entity and you're not necessarily in the
same room as each other, yeah, you could still do that. They
would still be able to have that link. But just so that could happen
with telepathy as well. Correct, You don't have to be in the same
room to carry out telepathy. So yeah, so yeah, sorry Paul on
this one. I don't think the ghost needs to run in and out of
the room. It's not like do you remember that old, the old fitness
thing, the bleak test that they used to make you do at school.
I don't think the spirit has to worry about that, to be honest.
See the other side of this is that when we looked at Darren Ritz and
we talked about poltergeist, he talked about something called contagion. Yeah, yeah,
and it was where like people that became involved in the initial case,
so like the family would be have it, say, for example, the
family would be having the poltergeist activity. The investigators would then start experiencing certain
things, weird things, synchronicity is you know, weird um almost polterguist behavior
themselves as a contagion from the main source, so that that in itself raises
really interesting questions. Yeah, it does. Yeah, I think this is
where it gets a bit tricky in regards to the paranormal field. In offer
it is a bit difficult to spirit is do we I mean exactly because until
we do define exactly what the spirit is, all these pieces of equipment are
just attempts at communication with said spirit. Whether they work or not is subjective
to what we know about our external world at this moment in time in regards
to physics, basically, isn't it. And yeah, yeah, I do
think though the more you work with investigations and you're in the atmosphere of paranormal
activity whatever it could be, the more susceptible you become to it, and
the more your mind opens up to the activity, and you do start to
experience and see more and more as time goes on. Yeah, ye,
yeah, I can take that. I can take that easy. The only
thing I would add to that is very early on for me, I noticed
that public investigations wasn't for me for that reason because where I was progressing,
I was learning and I was increasing my knowledge base on public investigations. You
have and this is no disrespect to anybody, because ultimately we're all doing it
for similar reasons. I guess, because we want to know what it is.
But you get the people that would take absolutely anything as gospel and it's
a ghost and it's my aunt Edith popping into visit. Well, I'm not
sure I necessarily go with an Edith popping back. I do think that there
is something, But would I be able to define that as somebody's aunt Edith
popping in? Noah, wouldn't. Yeah, but there is a thing that
everyone says that everyone's a medium in the paranormal field. But because I do
think you become more open to spirit the more you you do things like this,
Yes, I think you need it. It's important to remain balanced in
your perspective and not jump to the assumption that everything is a ghost and do
everything men to discount that if you're putting it out as evidence of paranormal investigator
paranormal activity. I mean, let's not even get me started on that,
because the evidence, as you guys know, because you bade me run about
this so many times, people put out there for public review, amazing evidence
caught last night, said location, and then they put a red ring round
it, well if you need, if you need to identify it, or
they put a soundclip, and then on said soundclip the kindly put in the
words that they believe is being said underneath. Well, I'm sorry, but
I don't class that was evidence. No, I don't, especially when you
get the red hoola hoop of doom we've come. I'm yeah, let's not
go down that route because that leads us down into TV shows and we're not
doing that particular domic tonight. We're talking about let's definitely that's not going down
that one. So we're talking about equipment. So off the back of basically
three pieces of kit we've discussed so far, the K two A laser grid
gun and a pen brother and a counk and the spirit box we've kind of
gone into. That's the basic kit for most starter offers. Yeah, and
it's ault and off the back of that, we've got lots of other pieces
of equipment that have bounced off of that. Yeah, loads in there.
The other thing is an em pump. Yeah, where basically it's that's supposed
to be flooding the environment with those pesky little electromagnetic fields that we are trying
to pick up with our K two meter. So clearly you shouldn't been using
a ktometer if you're using an EMF pump, right, Yeah? Is that
a true story? Yeah? Well one, I mean yeah, why would
you put a K two meter next to a pump that is pumping our electromagnetic
fields? Why would you do that? Right? So, where would an
electromagnetic field pump an EMF pump? Where would that actually be useful? Why
would we bother? Is there an EMFs everywhere anyway? Why would we bother
filling the atmosphere with more surely cloaks? Well, if you say, well,
I don't know, you see, because I've used it, But then
I have used it quite extensively in some locations, and I don't know.
Maybe I was offering up an actual human being to a sookie bus though,
do you know what I mean? So I was like, is all yours
can and get him? I did think, Well, the person that was
there, bearing in mind is quite a well known investigator. Um, he
definitely felt something and he was a little bit unsettled, and he's not often
unsettled. So but we also know that ian mess can affect, can affect
the physical being. Yeah, when they've done tests on this, I haven't
had experiences, um, and then be going to pursing his helmet and things
like that. Electrodes basically pulsed through the brain and people have had That's what
it's called the god helmet because people have. I would like to sound that
particular experiment. You need to look into that particular experiment because it wasn't just
it was a small percentage that had a god vision. Yeah, and there
was a lot of other feelings and visions that appeared to varying people. Some
of them weren't very pleasant. Some of them were just like a person felt
like a person was standing in the room with them. But it didn't deny
that it did have an effect. Yeah, the human physical experience, shall
we say? Yeah? Absolutely, Well again, I mean, let's go
back to what ear meth it actually is in the first place, you know,
where one of the highest places that we're going to find emath realistically as
human beings is going to be in like an X array. Right, Yeah,
you flooded with em then, um, And I don't get into my
knowledge, an EMF pump doesn't even give out as much as an X ray
doors. I thought that was what sorry radiation rather than well it is,
but it's still it all still runs off MF Right. I actually looked into
it and what it is, it's pretty much the same thing. Um,
And people don't have visions, et cetera with having an X ray. Yeah.
Would it be then that that's a short space of time An X ray
would be a short space of time. Yeah, I mean potentially. Yeah,
Yeah, you've got almin you've got a longer exposure with an em pump
flood in the environment and not the radiation with it. Yeah, that's true,
that is true. Surely we've an em pump though you're just exploiting the
human body. Because we all know that if someone is in the vicinity of
electro electromagnetic fields for a long period of time. I know, if they're
in there for a long period of time, they do start feeling things like
what they would expect spirit to be. Yeah, you know in that room.
So by flooding the rooms with em pumps when you're on a public investigation
and people are experiencing what they think is a ghost, but it actually is
just their normal human reaction to the electromagnetic fields. So that's all you're doing.
You're exploiting the human body. But this is the problem, though,
isn't it. For as long as not that I'm saying that, you know,
we should all be from ghosts and then start investigating ghosts, because you
know, that's just not going to happen, is it. Well, might
do, but you never know. Um, But for as long as there
is a human involved in it, that you're always going to be open to
interpretation. And there the problem I have is we as again we come to
the assumption that we the EMFs, are going to give spirit energy too.
Yeah cause activity right, yeah h yeah, yeah, Because let's favor it.
What's one of the most common things that you are on a paranormal investigation,
and we we've spoke about this before, Kerry. Use my energy,
well, I'm garely have enough energy for me, like, I don't want
to be giving it away. No, and you should to be fair.
That's not something you should do. Oh no, but you hear it all
the time, right, take my energy, use my energy. M You've
opened my mind to to spirituality a lot. To be fair, Kerry.
And how many times have you said to me, why would you not use
crystals the natural energy? Yeah, that's what I take out to the field,
and I also use the crystals energy, not my energy. I don't
even like giving my energy to people, to be fair, you know,
let alone a spirit that I don't know what it is, who it is,
how it is, I don't know anything about it. I'm not going
to open my energy field to anybody in anything. I wouldn't necessarily shut it
down completely like some people would use like a black tomaline or a hemata or
something like that, because I want to be able to connect on a spiritual
level, do you know what I mean? While I'm out in the field.
I want to be able to sense the energy changes that I have a
belief in. And there's a point here there's a belief system going on,
and I'm fully aware of a belief system and the effect that they can have.
Yeah, so I don't want people sharing at me in emails thanks,
because I don't get that one. Well, okay, so let's just address
that one quickly before before we continue. Like, so, anybody that is
listening at the end of the day or we are giving is our opinions right
now. Yeah, per personal belief systems, and they're an incredibly powerful thing,
particularly when you go into the we talk about psychological priming and all those
things that you know, confirmation biased, the flashy light thing it's going off.
That's what Paul said earlier. It's a confirmation bias. You believes there's
a spirit there, a light goes off, you think you're having a conversation
with somebody when it's actually a faulty piece of equipment or coincidence. Needs to
new buttery. Yeah. Yeah, So again, do have to be very
aware of your own belief systems and your own the powers of suggestion and going
in Like when someone shows you a picture and says I can see a picture
of Jesus on a piece of toast, your eyes will automatically seek the pattern
out because that is human nature passive. So you will see the picture of
Jesus on a piece of taste because you know it's that that's what you're looking
for. Yeah right, so okay, so we decided that MF pumpson are
not really good either. Oh god, honestly, voice boxes right, okay.
So the problem that I've got with at least of the paranormal equipment is
that it all runs off the same thing, and most of the proteotypes are
all of the same thing, and nothing gets changed up. And I think
that is such an issue in the paranormal field. And along with all of
the equipment, I mean, one of my biggest biggest things was the apps.
Yeah okay, oh, i'd agree. App one night, the tech
demon demon Hunter. It's right there. Oh, it's you with your iPhone,
it's inside you. Let's exercise the demon. I thought you were talking
about other electronical equipment that you can use for your mobile phone. Yeah.
Yeah, you still have some apps downloaded on my phone. Believe it or
not. Oh yeah, I learned since I downloaded them, I have absolutely
no way of knowing how to use them. I'm not an app kind of
girl. I'm a bit tech fobe in case you guys hadn't recognize that.
But um, yeah, there was little things that I tried out. Um,
I don't like them. I'm not gonna lie. I don't like them
mainly because it's a tech thing and I don't understand the tech behind it.
I understand the theory behind it. Yeah, I know what you're like with
tech. I mean it took us like four weeks to try and get you
set up for a podcast. Yea, when I first started this true story,
now I know how to do it. I'm all over it, well
until it breaks, until the mist and then I'm like, oh again.
I have to say though, we did a show with an app developer,
ye and whilst we were doing it live on air, I had weird things
happened in the house. Well, is that because of the app? Or
is that I think you think it could be a quinky dink? The quinky
dink has never happened again ever. Yeah. But then, to be fair,
we've done a show on demons and every time you mentioned that word,
everything was kicking off of yours. Yeah. I was having the kids were
away and I was having bangs and crashes upstairs, and then every time we
said the D word, the system crashed. It was weird, to say
the least, because we was on skype with you at the time. After
the show, we were still talking as you do, and that still was
happening, and I was having to come back in the call that I was
dropping out the call because the system would crash and the guys would be laughing.
The reads off and I was going to stop saying the god damn words.
And we stopped said the word and I stopped having issues. Okay,
that is interesting and what that was with an app, Okay, but okay,
so let me just try and get this straight in my head because it
has been a while. Actually, I don't think we've got that long.
So with the apps, most apps they run off. God, I'm really
digging deep in my memory banks tonight, I'll tell you. So. Basically,
there's every single word in the English Dictionary and some other languages to be
fair, all programmed in to said device, but broken up. So they've
got the words, but they've broken them up phonetically and jumbled it all up
together. Yeah, so potentially, and this is the problem that I've got
with them, personally, if you leave them running long enough, they will
randomly start spitting out words. Eventually, there is going to be something that
coincides with a question that's been asked. Right, does that mean that it
led or does that mean that it's a coincidence. I don't know because I
worry with things like the other lists. Yeah, So the ovulus again programmed
exactly the same way, and the echo vox again programmed exactly the same way.
So those things and apps are kind of passed us all together, and
we have had some weird stuff happen. So I used the echo vox at
one of the locations, and you know, I've got the same sort of
view as you with the words sort of programmed in and stuff. But I
actually when when I had the experience, it was almost like the word was
said quite sarcastically, So it wasn't just saying a word, It just come
out as sarcastic as anything. Basically, I was sitting on one of the
leather sofas in the attic and we was just talking amongst our selves and someone
said to me, what activity would you like to have tonight that would convince
you of a ghost? And I said, well, Okay, I would
like a spirit to pick this sofa up with me on it and right across
the room. Yeah no, no, that's it. I don't want much
at all, um, but not even a human could do that. But
it's just as it told me to wave off. But he said it in
such a sarcastic way, quite funny. Really, well, turn out a
ten to said spirits. I would have said exactly the same thing. But
I mean echo vox. Okay, so let's look at that. So all
that is is amplified recording and a reverb system for all intensive is. That's
all it is. We had German come out of an echo vox eye.
But again English, and I would say ninety percent of other languages are programmed
into them and I but it was weird. And when we did the research
of the words that came three, they were relevant to the location and situation.
I think, I think each in every case that is going to have
to be obsessed purely on an individual basis. But how long was you waiting
and how many times have you used them up to actually get something that actually
is relevant? To be fair, this was quite a long time ago,
and I don't use them now, but at the time. The person that
was using it was using it very extensively, okay, to the point where
we thought they were addicted to using it, was using it driving down the
street, you know. But then he was He drove down the motorway with
it on, and as he passed an area where there was a known accident
where a death had occurred, he had a woman come through and make phrases
as he was driving through that area. I have to say it was quite
strange. It was quite strange. I'm not saying it's it could have been
again coincidence, but I'm not. I wouldn't say I would extensively use it
myself, but it was quite interesting at that time doing it. And you
know, like you think, God, how far does a coincidence become something
that's not a coincidence that it's actually strange? Do you know what I mean?
That's that's the thing with it. Yeah, definitely. I mean,
to be fair, I'm open to the idea, although I have ripped quite
a few of the apps to pieces to be fair and proven before that it's
non e void. But I've not really used echo vox all that much to
be able to say, and I've not pulled it to pieces. I mean,
ultimately it's a program, right, so then you basically I think that
that's been coded. Yeah, again human error influence and again you can't take
out audio paradolia from that. They count audio pod you know, you think
you hear a word out of the mini sounds And again we go to patterns
in our brain. Our brain is programmed to recognize patterns in not just sight,
bit in hearing as well. You know, how often do you go
to a foreign country and everyone's speaking foreign and before you know it, you
think you can understand them what you mean? I count unfortunately now fluent in
Japanese. I'm saying to you, just go to a phone box, darling
your number and dal it. You get it there loaded straight in from the
matrix. Yeah, this is it, or just take you know, we
either raw goldfish. Yeah, I'll tell you. We're talking to the woman
that created time trouble right now with a can of beans and all. Oh
yeah, yeah, this is a chief everybody. Oh my god, that
is a blast from the past. Okay, so let's move it on.
EVP. This is a basic voice recorder that you use and you ask a
question and you leave it playing, and you give a few minutes in between
each question, and then you play it back and you see if there's a
voice that's not yours or your team members, or a fart, or a
stomach grumble, or a zip or a russell from your jacket, or even
a chair that you're sat on, or any of the multitude of millions of
little noises that get inadvertently made that you need a voice, right, You're
looking for a voice, a phrase, a comment, whatever, beyond all
of the obvious things. So I did an EVP session Rothham Towers and we
was with a group of people about people in total, and there were noises
coming through in between the questions, and I was like, right, did
anybody you have to stime time stamp like so if you have a stomach grumball,
for example, you go stomach so people know that the noise just before
that was your stomach or wherever. That's the purest person doing it. But
people do make noises inadvertently. The person was grunting and didn't recognize or realize
that they were actually making noises, and when you listen to it back,
it sounded like a voice. That's the problem with the UVP is because the
weakest part, the weakest point of that technique is actually the human person in
the room at the same time. Yes, if you put the voice recorder
down and then move outside or way from the recorder and then started asking you
questions a bit like the yes Day's experiment, just with a voice recorder,
that that would be more impressive. But I do know someone that said,
you know, the best EVPs are the ones you can't hear. This is
true. However, the way I see that is you have to then load
that into a program, for example, assuming audacity is still going I don't
know, and then you break it down and then you look for the gaps
in between vocals, so you've got the graph where it shows where people have
spoken, and then it should be did a non noise straight and within that
bat you're supposed to be able to hear. The way I see that,
though, is the more you have to manipulate something to hear a voice,
the more likely is that it's something it's not actually a voice. Yeah,
but you don't manipulate that. You enhance it, so you make it louder,
that's what you do. But then don't you hear things that you want
to hear, because I still couldn't hear what was supposed to have been there.
Well, I'm the world's worse for that because even with the SB seven,
I'm not programmed what I swear because I can never hear anything. No,
I can't. People are like to me, oh, yeah, I
heard this word and I heard that word, and I'm like, I didn't
hear anything, but you are drugs. You know here though, is there's
been so much research into EVPs. Yes, I mean Um Bayliss, for
one, Um actually wrote a book from Course from the Dad. Do you
remember that book yesterday? Yeah? Some some There is extensive research into EVPs,
and I mean just going back to that book, like I found it
phenomenal. And there is actually different classifications of EVPs as well. You've got
your class. But I bet ninety nine po nine percent of all the paranim
investigates on social media. I haven't got a clue. No, And but
again, like no disrespect to anybody, but they're the ones that we're going
to get that actually put it out on social media subtitled so everybody can see.
Whereas when you look back at the great Old is there's not Bayliss there's
there's other people out there as well, and it's gonna bug me. I
can't think of the name begins with our Robert nor Watch and you're thinking Rogan,
aren't you. No, it's going to really bug me. Constantin Constantinople,
involve something anyway. It's going to bug me like there is, he
wrote in the He wrote in the American um are not broad IV Yes sentence
ROLDI, Yeah, thank you. I did google that. I would just
like to point out I did have a Google on that one. Oh well,
where would I be without? Yeah? Yeah, you see, like
when you think back that those people and the peer pressure that they won't throw
in the evidence that they had to put forward had to be substantial, not
a recording and then subtitled on social media because there was no social media about
then, but b because they just wouldn't have done it anyway. Professional people,
right, Yeah, absolutely, we always come to a bit of it.
We're actually going to take a quick break before we continue this fascinating discussion.
So join us right after this and we will be back. Hello,
Harry Price here. If there's nothing me and my friends enjoy more here on
the other side, it is to sit back and relax and listen to the
Paranormal Concept Show right here on the pa UK Radio Network, broadcasting a plathora
of interesting and informative content for all your paranormal needs. Find them across social
media to keep up to date with forthcoming shows and all their other adventures.
Hello, is there anybody there? And welcome back to the Paranormal Concept Share,
exclusive to the Paranormal UK Radio Network. I'm Carry Greenaway. Paul Rook
is in the studio and so is generally Dreary, and we're discussing equipment and
various methods that we've we've tried in the field with very equipment that's out there
in this day and age, and the variations that have come off the back
of this and whether it's worth it, you know, hard day and cash
fri guys. This is like, I get that it's a business, right,
I totally get that it's a business. But I also get that people
like to invest in their hobbies. But matt is tight these days of course,
living guys, you know, it's really skip to spend. Like we
was looking at something the other day. It was like one hundred and seventy
pounds and it was a glorified box with lights and flashing things on it,
and I don't actually still don't really know kind of what it was supposed to
do, apart from be a KT meter. So you know you're going to
spend one hundred and seventy pounds and a glorified k TO meter just because it
flashes and sings. But there are methods out there that you can use relatively
cheap ones. We have a phone. Everybody now, at some point you
were not supposed to take your phone into the field in any way so hope
or form because of contamination. You don't know what's on that phone. But
have you ever had a phone that's like not got anything on it? You
literally just download the bitch you want on it and nothing else. You don't
even put a SIM card in it. You don't have Internet access on it.
You literally use the phone purely and simply for the appsolutely want. I
either voice record a bit. Yeah, you can download various apps then disconnect
from the Internet. They don't need internet to use, so you can download
the apps initially and then disconnect it from the internet. It all they all
have a compass on them. Yeah. See, this is something else that
interests me. Why does nobody take a compass? I do. I do
not many people do, though, do they? No? No, And
it's not to do your boy scout thing with your your map and you could
you could do the boy scout thing, because I've been to working forest and
the guy lead it he got lost, hilarious and he's why you're getting us
out of the forest, was to use the pendulum to guide us. I
love that. I loved that in the end of what was setting out.
But he got us completely lost anyway, and we eventually but yeah, from
then on I thought I'll take a compass. He found water and a fairy
ring exactly. It was a laugh of that one. But Sement actually,
if the if the tall guide actually got lost, like I don't know why,
but I would absolutely love that because then you're completely in the wild,
right, Yeah, absolutely Hockley Woods, and I have to say, I
was thinking, this walk is a hell of a lot longer from the Wreckie
Walk. So if you took because you said Hockley Woods, Hockley Woods in
Essex, you've got three walks to do because little one, a medium sized
one and a big one that goes around the whole of the site, and
it's very easy to start on the middle one. I'll start on the small
one and then cross onto the middle and then cross onto the large because I've
done that a few times. Very easy. Indeed, folks, it is
all I'm saying. A team of the public with me. And that was
a bit of a mayor because he was supposed to last two hours and it
went on for five. They got their money's worth. And obviously we've only
planned activities to do a various spots through the tough the two hours, so
we ran out, so we was improvising the whole way for the rest of
the three hours. But they loved it, and I bet that was one
of the best times that you've had, right. I did actually say I'm
not gonna lie. I'm off grid now. I have no idea from the
other I don't know where we are. We're on a path, I don't
know what we're doing. I don't know where we are in the woods.
The first first one, the first one to get us to the pub wins.
By the time we come out there, it was all exhausted. We
all had like twigs in a hair and everything. Paranormal equipment detect Gin because
that's one that really interested him. Oh my lord, to be fair,
because of the type of investigation it was. It was just about we took
things that you could carry, right, Okay, so you're not taking like
a full blown kit. What's the other thing is what about CCTV. Well,
what's the point of CCTV. I'm still trying to that one out for
myself, and to be honest, other than when I've used it, I've
had it on um equipment and it's just been monitoring that equipment. That's the
only time I've really used it. The only other time, like people tend
to use it, is when the one would put it out there publicly.
Right. I found it useful for airflow. The airflow is always good with
CCTV because you can see it, yes, because it comes up as orbs
everybody ys across the room. Problem then you've got a problem with that because
then there's so many jobs And oh my god, did you see that one
that a date legs someone was going across the screen. Me and Paul were
set there one night and we was in a location. It was just me
and him. The other two there's any four of us altogether. The other
two were off and then the different floor, and we said that we was
watching the CCTV, weren't we pull It was fascinating and it was all about
air flow, but it was fascinating how the air was actually flowing through the
building. And it was only until we saw it on the CCTV that you
could see that into playoff. So where you thought I'm getting a you know,
there's a cold breeze or a cold spot, it was in places you
wouldn't have necessarily anticipated. But because we could see the air flow, it
explained things a lot more, didn't it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah,
I think they're quite useful if you have got a big team and you're all
split off into varying areas. So if say, for example, you've got
a team in a zone A for example we'll call it, and a team
in Zone being, you're all you're in the harb watching if they get an
activity, you could see where each member of the team is. Yeah,
Like if someone says, oh, I got touched, you could say,
well, no, actually, because Bob was really close to you in the
dark, you didn't know it is that it was actually him who touched you.
It's good for things like that, not so good for picking up perion.
No, No, I don't think I've seen any any CCTV footage that
I have thought was good evidence of a spirit, mainly because of the nature
of the film. It's not clear. It's in night vision, low quality
generally right training. So I have to disagree a bit with that because I've
done an investigation on a It was a barge, the Thames Barge, and
it was called Reminder, and we was there from Thursday to Sunday, and
I put a camera up in the living quarters bit looking down the boat all
the way to the end where the bedrooms were, and one of my investigators
they were on their own on the boat taping down the wire of the camera
because we had public out and a ghostwalk, and then they we're going to
come back and do an investigation. At that point, we just left,
probably about ten minutes into the ghostwalk, and the person on the boat radioed
meet and said, can you come back. There's thing's happening And I'm absolutely
pupping myself. So I was like, okay, yeah, that's fine,
I'll come back. What had happened She heard someone call her name and then
she heard a massive crash like something had fallen off of the ceiling onto the
floor, but she couldn't find anything. So when I got back, I
was like, you're probably imagining it. I said, you know, the
whole name calling thing, you could just you could do that, but with
the crash, was looking at possible causes were slamming cupboard doors and I was
like, is that the sound? And no, So we never really did
get to the end of that, and then I realized, oh, yeah,
we put on the cameras last night a film, so let's rewind them
to see what was going on, and we actually call what looked like now,
you know, like in The Predator when they cloak and you get that
shimmer I had. I saw that little shimmer of a little in the shape
of a little boy walking across the fireplace, turning down into the corridor where
the bed the beds and the bunks were, and then it just vanished.
No, I can't explain that that was the only time it happened on the
cameras for that whole weekend that we was there. So I can quite honestly
safely say the cameras are working, so it isn't a clamor camera glitch.
I really don't. I really can't explain what that was. Was it a
spirit? I'm still I'm still not inclined to say that it was a ghost,
just something explained because I can't explain. It doesn't mean that someone five
years down the line might take a look at it and go, actually,
yeah that's what it was. Yeah, it just it is just a mystery.
And apparently I learned what sort of camera was you using? Oh I
don't know. We're going back years now, Okay, yeah, I can't
remember, but I've I found out a couple of weeks after that that there
was actually a little boy that was killed by that boat because he felt while
he was trying to look while he was loading up the boat, he fell
into the gap between the boat and the harbor, and the boat crashed into
him and crushed him. Whether that's true or not, I don't know,
because I've never really researched that deeply into it because he was a public investigation.
But all I can say is many a photograph, video footage argument has
taken place post investigation between team members, let alone public forums on whether or
not it isn't, possibly could be, and they're on YouTube. You've got
hundreds of different people doing compilations of could this possibly be paranormal activity, including
a producer he does, so he did do that for a while. Yeah.
Interesting stuff though, and it's good to get a discussion going. I
mean, it's the one thing of about CCTV on a paranormal investigation is I
think you with the nail on the edge earlier Kerry when you said you was
just sat watching it in the hub, because that is my ultimate favorite thing
to do. And it's not to watch the airflow or to watch those magical
orbs that are Scotland a on the room. It's to watch people. M
hmm. People are very interesting on paranormal investigations. Members of the public.
Let's deal with the beautiful public. Yes, first of all, they're there
for an experience. Yes, they're there because they've seen a television program and
they kind of want to experience it for themselves, right, And they want
to try the kit that we've talked about, and they want to try the
you know, the calling out the thrill of a of a old location in
the middle of the night, Oots Gary, It's kind of like, um,
it's a buzz yeah, right, I've experienced that at some point.
That's actually what keeps you going back out. Yeah, the bus of it,
particularly you're in an old house or you're in you know, a public
place that you can go and visit during the day as a tourist. You've
got it yourselves all night. Yeah, that is one of the best feelings
in the world. That alone is the best feeling in the world. Secondly,
lights out, it's a little scary but safe. But they're a little
scary. We love it, right, that's all we do it. And
nine times out of ten it's being called haunted, which is where you go
because you might bump into a ghostie. Yeah, I'd love to bump into
Casper one night. I have had experiences on paranormal investcations. That's what keeps
me going back because I want to explain those experiences. But for the public,
they want to Casper. Yeah. Do we then feel we are doing
a disservice to the public by using all these pieces of equipment that we've kind
of most people would not be able to explain to the public, But to
say, is an MF pump. We use it to flood the electromagnetic fields
because ghosts use EMFs as their medium to come through. That's kind of the
explanation you get, right, But then that's because that's the sort of information
that's passed over, passed down through investigation teams. Yeah, but as I
said to you earlier, all you're doing is manipulating um and um, you
know, using the human body and their reaction to EMF to stimulate the illusion
that you're being touched or watched or you know, all your things are coming
with the spirit activity. I think there's a real disservice being done. Actually,
if I'm honest to the general public that ultimately want that experience, now
they want that experience nine times out of ten because of personal belief systems.
Yeah, and because of everything that they see on the TV shows they then
want that experience. I think that's a huge disservice. If I'm totally honest,
what are we teaching people? What are people leaving with other than personal
experiences. Now I'm not discounting for personal experiences because we've all had them for
that long and again part of the reason why we all keep coming back.
But I think a lot of knowledge is lacking in the paranormal field, and
people see things that is for entertainment, purposes only. Yeah, edited,
very finally edited. I think that is a disservice. Or are we actually
giving the paranormal field, the teams out there a disservice Because everybody I've interviewed
now, I've interviewed to heck of a lot of people, just a few.
I've been doing this a long time now, as Paul has as well,
and you've done at your fair share of interviewing. They're not as unknowledgeable
as we kind of making out a little bit tonight. No, No,
some are extremely knowledgeable, but they don't share it on our public investigation.
No, that's true. But they do have the knowledge, some don't get
some definitely do have the knowledge. But then that begs the question, why
is all the people with a little bit of knowledge not getting together and create
in some sort of a portfolio. Why are they still doing it for the
public and not actually gaining anything? Because I think we come down to the
cost factor. A lot of teams are small. We haven't got a lot
of money, right, it's not a rip off. If you want to
hire a large location, you have to kind of pushes you into public for
it. Unfortunately, it's a true story kind of sometimes doing team shares that
in itself is a challenge within itself. Yeah, I just I think it's
such a fine line, and I think that's what the problem is. It's
such a fine line because, like you say, when you've got team shares,
you've then got people that will hold to their bit of evidence that they've
got all the information that they've got and they're not sharing it properly, and
I think that makes it hard. Yes, to get big locations. I
had to do it. To get some amazing locations, I had to take
members of the public along, which then took the investigation away from me.
Yeah, because you're herding people around the location and doing various experiments in using
the equipment, showing them what to do, you know, trying different things.
But then of course the public won't act in the same way. And
that's just down to being a knowledgeable really about how to act to an investigation.
That's not a fault, No it's not. But then let's throw into
that most of the locations, especially the mega expensive ones, are the places
that would have cost maybe two hundred pound to night. I know, obviously
inflations massive ear guys, I'm not completely blind for that but because it's been
on TV shows, it's now two three grand denied. Yeah yeah, And
because it's been labeled haunted, Well, some of my best investigations or some
of my most prominent personal experiences have been in derelict buildings, if I'm honest.
Yeah, and that has a challenge all in its own right. Definitely
definitely not public, and you have to be very very careful of because you
then cross into urban exploring, effectively across the ghost hunting into urban exploration.
Urban exploration is a whole different ball game in regard to legalities. Oh yeah,
yeah, I mean, obviously don't try this at folks. But exactly
the point remains, though, just because people are going to these locations because
they've been on TV and because their clusters haunted, that's what everybody goes after.
Just because it's not got a signpost saying haunted doesn't mean to say that
there is no form of haunting. I totally agree. I think sometimes the
most phenomenal activity is when you're not actually investigating. Oh yeah, yeah,
I mean talk to the you know, general public experiences that come forward nine
times out of ten then nothing to do with the paranormal investigation. Normal people
living their lives and having an experience that they cannot explain, and that goes
to places like the SPR and ASAP and places like that generally before it hits
the public forum, as it were. But then you've got issues with that
as well, haven't you, because then you have to rule out other factors
like medications, drug, alcohol abuse, mental help, stay like even.
Yeah, paranormal investigating isn't easy by any stretch of the imagination, and it
definitely do you want a silver platter whichever way you look at it. Do
we think then that it's very easy to cast judgment, isn't it? On
other people in the paranormal field? We see it all the time. It
still goes on, it's been going on since. Do we think that it's
that's the problem, the judgment? Oh, massively? Yeah, Yeah,
I mean I won't watch promonormal TV shows anymore. No, I don't.
No, I can't bring myself to watch it anymore because there's people that I
know that I've worked with, that I know are capable of more. But
it's edited to make it look a certain way. Yeah, and it infuriates
me. But then that's writings and again with dentibusiness, aren't we yeah again,
Yeah, And I think that's the problem. But it's so difficult,
and I don't think there is a right or wrong way necessarily. I think
everybody's going to do it differently. But I think definitely this is why I'm
now a solo sort of girls these days, because I don't want to get
involved with all the drama, the politics of the parallels. That's exactly why
I do it, don't. I don't go out investigating with anyone there.
No. I mean there was a time where I would have been on social
media before when people was like saying about this piece of equipment or that piece
of equipment, and I would have argued it with them. Now I'm just
do you know what, as long as having fun and you're happy doing it,
then you crack on yeah, because you know full well that in like
three years down the line, they're going to be in exactly the same place
you are, and they're going to be like, I can't believe I was
like that, Yeah, exactly exactly, and three years down the line and
if somebody you'll be saying I've got this vintage piece of equipment, they're going
to be like we'll actually no, it's not. Yeah, but people got
to learn and they're all on different levels of learning. Absolutely, and belief
systems and I know we're hanging on about belief systems, but belief systems in
the paranormal field is huge and it impacts on so much. It does the
psychology, oh things is actually a lot more paramount in the paranormal field.
I always said this, I love the field because it led me down,
or leads me down even to this day. So many different fields, even
down to you know, like physics and geology and you know, research of
history, and there are so many different avenues. It takes you down,
and you know, you come off the back of an investigation and you start
doing the work. That's where the work then takes place. Oh yeah,
you know, to really work out what either what it was that you was
experiencing. I mean an EMF fluctuation we had one night took me down the
road of glass manufacturer, Yeah, to find out if glass. For some
weird reason, I had it in my head that it was the glass that
was doing it because the data logger was by an old glass window wasn't meant
sorry to do with the lead is to do with the lead in the lead
content in the glass. And that was and that was an interesting, a
really interesting evening. Another evening I spent looking at earthquakes in the UK,
wondering if that was a factor of a wise particular area was particularly active.
I spent another god knows how many months researching eupho activity in regards to correlations
between euphoactivity and para normally investigate, you know, parallel activity, whether there
was you know, a link that we could find in the UK. That
that was incredibly difficult. I didn't get very far, but months I spent
trawling various sights trying to work out things and crossing over maps, trying to
overlay maps to find, you know, a map from the fifteen hundreds to
the sixteen hundreds, the seventeen hundred to see the difference of whether or not
there was a build up, the geology change and stuff like that. That's
how I found out that the gallows in Ponta fact weren't actually anywhere near the
location that was set because overlaying maps all night, you know, for days.
Again, that took me forever, and it taught me varying skills through
that in regard to research methods, and it made me branch out and talk
to people that I wouldn't have talked to before, and I learned. I
went down the emfrow. I couldn't repeat it now. It was for a
specific show, but I spent a long time learning and basically doing level mass
that was just way above my pay league, do you know what I mean?
Because I am a mathematician or a geology of physicist or anything like that,
And that led me down into work that was done by the guy Tesla
Tesla, That's where I was going with that one, you know, I
mean, it's vary and that's what catches me. Yeah, the research that
comes off the back of an investigation or you're looking at a location to investigate,
so you start delving into it a little bit and find out whether it's
worth doing and paying out your hard earned cash to go, and whether or
not it is as relevant or is it a hyped up story. And that's
the key point for my opinion. On top of that, if you get
a personal experience, which is why I don't really like the KIT, because
I like to just experience the building and the vibe and the feel of it,
and because I work with energy in my own field, the spiritual field,
that to me becomes more integral. And I took techniques that I use
in manifestation into the field crystal gridding and using crystals in the paranormal field in
a way that was completely different that sang to me in my way, and
that they'd be down a whole different level of research as well in regards to
my own spiritual journey. That's where I came from and what I do in
the field. Paul, Yeah, over the years, what is it for
you still now? So I still again, like yourself, I'd like to
have the personal experience. So when I go to a private investoration case,
the first thing I'd like to do is just going there myself have have whatever
experience that the client is claiming. So I'll just sit there and absorb the
energy around, and if anything happens, I'll log it down and make a
record of it, and then i'd go into interviewing the client or witnesses and
things like that, and then i'd devise my own investigation experiments to prove what
caused said activity. And I just like doing that. That's private investigations for
me is definitely the way forward, Gemma. I know you've been not investigating
for a little while now. I know it's something that you probably will want
to get back to at some point. At some point, I'm on maternity
leave though, so if there is such a thing from the parent armal,
but yeah, eventually I will be wanting to be out there again. But
I do still keep my hand in. I am still quite actively snooping in
what's going on in the field, And I think snooping is the best word
because I don't ever comment see it, and research wise, I just do
my own little thing in the background, and I think that's really what it's
it's all about. It's doing your thing, connect with the people that you
know this wild and wonderful journey leads you on. But in regards to equipment,
I don't think I'll be actually investing in any equipment anytime. So nothing
new that I've seen that screams to me, you need to buy me.
You cannot live another day on this earth plane without me in your life.
There's nothing. It's all basically bounced off the equipment. We detailed it in
the first half of the Yeah, now there are guitar ramps with crystals and
copper wires coming off of it. Yeah, there are alice boxes. There
are so many different variations. Again that comes off the spirit box. You
get whistles and bangs and what's that's off of rampods, that's off of ear
meth pumps, that's for katometers, that's off of spirit boxes. With their
death methods and gans field experiments you've got, you know, they all boil
down to the same thing. My personal bugbear in regard to equipment is cattles.
Yeah, the amount of times if still on them things. YEA,
inadvertently you put them down, you think great, they're going to be played
with, or you know they're going to move great, and then you are
wandering around the location you accidentally kick one, and then someone comes and goes,
ah, it's moved. It possibly has moved to vibration. It possibly
has moved because of someone accidentally kicking it. Has I have to say,
though, I did do it a crystal grid and I said it up and
I said, do not anybody touch this right, And a team member went
down. She accidentally moved something. She put it back. She goes,
I put it back, and I went down and she didn't tell me she'd
done it, and I went down and I went the grid has moved.
Somebody's moved at and they were like, no, no, and I was
like, I'm telling you now, somebody moved at And then they admitted that
they'd accidentally moved to grid. That's how good I am. Never mind that
they actually moved it and put it right on the other side, but were
completely different room of course picked it up completely different. It started off as
a grid and then he moved to a circle moved. All I'm saying is
that I'm good. No arrogance there whatso. But that's how I work in
the field, and generally that's where my past experiences come from, is working
my spiritual way in the field. I would love to get out there,
but there's nothing at this point in time that is dragging me out there.
Where I go. I've got to do that. I was a little jealous
sported with Chester mention. Yeah, I would have been fell a look up
place. It was really nice. It was snowing when we left. That
place was absolutely beautiful, all right, stop rubbing it in there. And
I stayed at a little village pub just down the road as well. All
I'm saying is if I do it, it's never ever going to be on
a snowy night. It will be on a warm must have been it was
absolutely freezing. Even the ghost is one thing that I don't miss, actually
being nice and warm at home. It is the cold. Can't do the
cold. I don't know if it's because I'm getting older now, like I'm
sure it didn't you tather me when I was younger, but as I'm getting
older. I mean, the first thing that goes through my head is I'm
used to being in bed by nine pm. And then the second thing is
it is so cold. Yes, yeah, I have to say there's been
a couple of nights where we've been out and literally been in a t shirt
and trousers, you know, because it's been beautiful and nice and warm evening
like a beautiful summer evening. Cold winter evenings I cannot do physically. My
joints cannot take it these days. Walking out the house like a mitchell In
woman is not one for me these days. So some investigations of a night
only, and that would be after I've been allowed to sleep all day to
keep me allows going all night. I do wonder if somebody should create something,
just to see how many paranormal investigators end up with arthritis because of the
cold and sitting on the floor. Yeah, cold, damp environment in the
midst of winter. It's not fun. Like I think my lungs are burning
at the thought of going out in the freezing cold. They're already like,
no, don't do it. No, yeah. I used to get right
off on that sort of stuff. I weren't even cold because I'd be so
excited and listening to us like we're only twenty one plus b eighteen. We're
going on like we're one hundred and fine. I don't have any problems going
on in a cold It's fine, all right, sure you honestly this man
who will sit there? It could be sub zero and you'll be in a
T shirt? Yeah, I can't there. I'll be in like long John's
five T shirts, twenty jumpers and a coat. Do you know I'm under
blankie just for good measures exactly, and still be cold. And one thing
I always always did on the investigations, actually, and it is quite funny
thinking of thinking back to being cold as everybody else was going along and going
on getting really hot and getting really hot. I'd be like I'll hold your
jacket. Ver'm just like, yeah, like added to the lions that I've
got. I'm not sure whether I was a paranormal investigator or a coat hook
at. Yeah. I think the worst bit for me on investigation is the
pack up of all said kits. Yeah, it takes forever. If you're
doing like you know, if you're going out and you're putting CCTV up and
you're doing your trigger objects in your baseline test and you've got this bit of
kit and that bit of kit. That for me is the worst bit of
the evening when you get there, I like to just go in field the
five, get on somebody's setting out with wires and you know, going oh
mind and all this, and then at the end of the evening when you're
done, you just want to grab and go. Yeah. And let's face
it, the one thing that everybody wants after a paranormal investigation. Now correct
me if I'm wrong, but it's a McDonald's, right, Yeah, the
debrief in the McDonald's. Ever, and I suppose all the fast food restaurants
are available, guys always been a makis and yeah, and that's all I
could think about, not oh my god, I've got to collect twenty miles
of wire and pack everything away nice and neatly, and all that garbage.
All I could ever think about was A, I need more coffee, yeah,
yeah, and B where's the nearest marks? M not packing up?
I think I've got a home from an investigation before. Now we've you know,
we read the debrief, the McDonald's that we read the debrief. I
get dropped off at five o'clock in the morning. I'm sure my neighbors thought
I was a day and I was just hanging around old buildings in the middle
of the night, and I'd getting based and I was still, and I
would be shivering because the hold had settled into your bones. And that,
I believe is my joint problem is that I've got nothing to do with my
age. Yeah, yeah, I know, absolutely, I'm with you.
My hips don't after ack now they're never used to. But the hip thing
could be kid thing. Yeah, but we'll skim over that, we'll put
it dance. This is an amazingly wonderful world. There are many many bits
of beautiful little deck that you can take with you. My advice would be
discerning about what you invest your hard earned cash. In the price that we
touched on it earlier, like the price for me is phenomenal, like to
charge stupid amounts of money. Yes, I know that hard work has gone
into it, but I just think people don't have the money and does it
actually prove anything. There's always like the latest piece of care. I mean,
we saw a little while ago, a couple of years ago the SLS
camera. No, no, let's not even get me started on a lot
of people modifying their xboxes can help monitor. We saw that modified it into
You've got to think of the technology that goes into this, the three D
laser thing that builds up and that all came in at the moment. We've
got pyramids that flashlights. Oh. It's just sometimes you go out there and
people look like a sas kind of job aid, don't they with all their
pockets, deck and stuff like that in it need that for all of the
equipment they're carrying around. The need there was cargo pants and belts and drops.
H. I think it's what I have to say. I've got to
say this. It's whatever floats your boat. Absolutely it's a hobby. Yeah,
no serious scientific person is going to take anything you gather on a paranormal
investigation as evidential or serious. Quite frankly, best will in the world,
they're not going to if you're talking that level of investigation, not me and
Fanny. They're not going to involve a little old person like me or you,
Gemma or you, or most of the paranormal teams out there. If
you want to stand a chance of being involved in something on a little bit
more higher level, you would need to be part of the Eklons of the
Sea or a sap or ghost club or any of those. Yeah. Yeah,
absolutely, in my personal opinion, read the research that's been done by
these people. It's fascinating, it is. Yeah, we learned to be
fair, Yeah, there is in the paranormal. Bearing in mind that's an
umbrella term as we know every days the school day, right, Yeah,
but that's what it's about. Learn people. I don't like equipment, don't
mean to say that other people shouldn't each to their own definitely, m I
think the one biggest thing that I would ever say is just enjoy yourself.
Have fun, enjoy yourself, don't take it too seriously, do your own,
follow your own pathway, do your own research. Look at the varying
cases. The Skulls experiment, they sat and did you work before they got
taken seriously. And actually if you read all the information on that, you'll
understand that that spread and involved lots of other groups, not just them.
Everyone focuses on the main five as four. Sorry, yeah, having a
little bit of em brace c Yeah, the work. There were so many
more people involved in that. And I went off the back of that as
well. That didn't pop out on a Friday night it and just do one
investigation and then bishbash boom. That was famous and they discovered this evidence,
that evidence, and it's all gospel. Years and years and years and hours
upon hours. And let's face it, as we know, a lot of
those hours was just sitting around with nothing. No, the initial years,
not a lot happened. Look at the Phillips experiment, that took again a
long time to get any results whatsoever. What was going on? It raises
more questions than it does answers. But it's fascinating look into those cases,
and if you are really super super serious, you'll start realizing maybe you don't
need to spend the money on the equipment. Maybe it's something beyond something that
can be recorded absolutely pause, computer crashed through that. I wonder where he
had gone? Is it a been a quiet So we have actually come to
the end of the show because I don't think there's anything more we can add
to that. Well, we're not going to sit a random wait for both
to say goodbye, are we No, we're not, so we are going
to say goodbye. I'm sure he will be back with us very soon and
join us for the next paranormal concept show. Take care, everybody, Thank
you for joining us, Thank you for joining us. Jemma, You're welcome.
Thanks for having me. Good Night for people, good night,