Love Talk Radio. Welcome to us a think Tank with your host Alejandro Roh.
Alright, there's the theme music, and I know how excited you all
get when you hear it, because it means it's another episode of UFO Think
Tank. Hello people, this is your host, Alejandro t Rojas, and
we've got a great guest. Of course, we always have great guests,
and this is another guest who's going to be a speaker at the Roswell Festival
next weekend. The crowds go wild because I've had just about everybody who's gonna
be speaking at the Roswell Festival on my show. I am coordinating this speaker's
conference, and I'm very proud of that. I've done a heck of a
job people putting this together. Manhem, I've been busy. I just hope
it goes smooth. Hopefully, you know, you can put it all together
and everything can go smooth and then it's a disaster when you get there.
Hopefully that won't be the case. Not gone. Hell, My desk is
made out glass, unfortunately, but hopefully it's gonna go well. It's gonna
be a lot of fun. You know, these are great people, so
even if a dozen things get screwed up per hour. That's a lot.
I think these are friends who will put up with it. They're they're good
sports and they're just here they get the information out. But I'm sure my
good buddies, Freeward, Amy, Ward Renee, all of these wonderful people
that all work for the city of Roswell, they are absolutely wonderful. They've
been doing a great job putting at things together. Free and Amy have been
working so hard. Peter Robbins, who I've had on the show, he's
been working real hard to get all this together. We're gonna be partying with
Jefferson Starship, all right, So we're gonna have a good time out there.
It's gonna be a lot of fun. And I know some of you
listeners are gonna make it, and maybe some of you have not decided to
go next weekend, and you know what, now's the time to just say,
I gotta do this. Get out there, grab a tent, come
on out. There is campground out there. You know, if you need
to just kind of park on the side of the road and sleep in your
car, you're gonna want to be there because it's gonna be a lot of
fun, and we're gonna have a lot of great speakers, including our guests
this evening. Mister doctor, excuse me, Donald Burlson. What history this
guy has? He is a mathematician, obviously, he's also interested in the
paranormal. He's moved on State director actually for New Mexico, but he's also
at English. His PhD is an English. He's done mathematics. He's worked
at the University of New Mexico. He held the top secret clearance with USO
Air Force Intelligence for it as a Chinese language specialist. He's also fluent in
Spanish and a reading knowledge of French. I mean, this guy sounds like
a super genius, really intelligent guy, done a lot of stuff, and
he's got a couple of books out there, so he's an accomplished author as
well. He has a book on Marilyn Monroe and her death related to UFOs.
Hmmm, we'll talk a lot about that. And then he's also got
another book and that's what he's going to be talking about in Roswell, which
is Oppenheimer and his connection with UFOs, And specifically he will be talking in
Roswell about Oppenheimer's connection to Roswell so Oppenheimer Saudi's Roswell beans or this crash or
something. I don't know. I haven't seen his hock yet, so we
will find out. And you know what, I'm gonna be honest with you
people. Right now, I'm not gonna get into the Oppenheimer's stuff much.
You're gonna have to come to Roswell to hear it. So is that so
much to ask? Come on, if you hop in the car right now,
you can make it, even if you're on the other side of the
country. Grant Cameron, one of our speakers from Canada, has decided to
drive. He's just leaving today. He if he can get there from Canada,
you can get there from wherever you are. Take the Greyhound. For
God's sakes, people, that's only a few bucks. But come on out
to Roswell and check it out. It's gonna be a lot of fun.
And in fact, I've got a little homage to Roswell and just a minute.
But first, the UFOs in the news segment, there's been a lot
of as usual, there's a lot of UFO stuff in the news. I
don't think I covered this with you all last weekend because I just found out
it. I just posted it on Sunday, and that is a new movie
starring George Clooney called Men Hysteric Goats, and it's kind of out. It's
about psychic research that the military did. And the reason I bring it up
here is because it is loosely based on George Clooney's character, and it's going
to be a dark comedy. I said, unfortunately, a dark comedy.
And someone jumped my case, just kidding. He didn't jump my case.
He just had a great question. He said, well, you know,
can't we be funny in uphology And I said, no, this is serious
business. If you're not going to be serious, hit the road, hit
the skids. Just kidding. Obviously I'm being silly because I try to add
humor into my show here. I do my best. Some of you may
find it annoying, and I apologize if that's the case, but hopefully some
of you do find me at least a little bit amusing and adds to my
charm. I like to think, but yeah, I certainly think that.
You know, I think of Ghostbusters, which was a movie about paranormal now
it's hilarious. I think some of the real funny X Files like I told
them, I think your protagonist just needs to probably be you know, like
a researcher or someone into it. Especially. The reason I said unfortunately about
this movie is because it's going to be a dark comedy and the title men
who Stare at Goats, it gives me the sense they're going to make fun
of this because the reason they I think they really had some projects where they
had guys staring at goats is they were trying to kill them with their mind,
which is unfortunate. And it's certainly for any of you people with psychic
abilities or you're discovering your psychic abilities, use it for good. Please don't
go kill goats or other innos and almost used to make people feel better,
you know, that would be the right way to use it, I think.
But this guy, John Alexander, unfortunately works for the military. He's
been in intelligence, and I don't think he uses his powers for good.
He may feel differently, so just the difference of opinion. He is actually
into non lethal weapons. He is into psychic They had him look into the
psychic stuff. He's into UFOs as well, but he says that the government
doesn't know anything about UFOs. Roswell didn't happen. We're all just as curious
as you all, but I do believe they exist. So he also,
along with his non lethal weapons stuff. Oh excuse me, people, my
goodness, he is into the brain stuff, you know, manipulating people by
influence and stuff like that. So some shady stuff kind of you know,
so, but he is into UFOs. He goes to UFO conferences and talks
about how the military is innocent and doesn't know anything about all this stuff.
Who knows other people feel that way as well. I don't, but I
would be really surprised. I think they know a lot. More news.
Multiple witnesses watch UFO dropping lights on the ground right here in Colorado. I
didn't see it, but I'm gonna keep my eyes open. Triangular shaped UFOs
over Arizona have been being seen, and all the rest of these stories I
think were brought to us by Roger Marsh, the UFO examiner at Examiner dot
com does a great job. Some more stories you brought UFOs being seen over
airports, jets possibly chasing UFOs in New Mexico. Will keep my eyes out
for that next weekend, and an exeter UFO festival up here, so that
ought to be a lot of fun. That's going to be late June.
June twenty fourth, Also a couple of other stories that weren't from him.
I got a message from Robert Hastings. Robert Hastings is the author of UFOs
and Nukes. He's been on Larry King. He actually wrote a book about
UFOs seeming to visit nuclear facilities, including if you've heard of the mauls from
Air Force Base where people claim that they turned off the nukes for a period
of time. He's going to be on Larry King along with James Fox,
another researcher. He's going to have a couple other people on. Unfortunately,
he's going to have his skeptics. He's going to have Phil what's his face?
And Bill Nye and Blood. I think they get ridiculous. If they
would at least look into this stuff and argue exact points, that would be
helpful. But they just make these blanket statements, which is unfortunate. But
yeah, July third, Larry King, I'll have UFOs on again, So
keep an eye out for that. If you're in Rodswell, like most of
you are, you know, let's get together. We'll go somewhere and watch
this together. Huh, let's make it a date and let's see one more
story that I had here with NASA and UFO. It's just an interesting story
in American Chronicle where he felt that some of the research and opening up that
NASA is doing in their research is going to force them to look into UFOs.
I hope he's right. We'll see check out his story on American Chronicle.
Remember, you can see all of these stories at UFO think tank dot
com. Scroll down on the very front page you will see these news links.
Also, if you're at the blog talk site on the right hand side
of my homepage, you'll see a link to my Yahoo news. You can
also go to Yahoo groups and look for a UFO think tank there and join
my email list. And that's the best thing to do because you will get
these stories boom boom right on the spot, and you will be up to
date on everything happening. You don't want to read about your neighbors getting sucked
out of their house by a UFO from me on Saturday when you kuld have
heard about it when it happened, and you know, batten down the hatches
and watched out for that, so check it out. That's the news.
Also, this is big news for UFO Think Tank and I'm very happy about
this. I was on Joe Montaldo's show recently. Joe Montaldo runs the UFO
Paranormal Radio Network and this guy, holy moly, gets hundreds of thousands of
listeners. He's on satellite radio in Australia and other countries, so there are
lots of people in other countries you've got they've got a stay sean all day
long. Well, he's going to syndicate my show, so UFO Paranormal Radio
he's going to be playing me on his station. I think he's gonna play
Saturday nights after this show, so if you miss it, you can go
listen to it there. He also loops archives all the time, so they're
gonna hear me over there a lot. So Luckily, I don't like to
brag about this, and you guys know, if you're a regular listener,
I've never bragged about this, but I am the number one paranormal show on
blog talk radio. Believe it or not, that's the truth. I'm typically
always in the top ten most popular radio shows on blog talk radio. So
pretty cool stuff. I've got a lot of people podcasting me, so hopefully
I'm gonna get hundreds and thousands of more listeners on Joe's network. There so
really exciting news. I'm excited about that, people. I hope you are
too, And thank you for everybody in the chat. I'm gonna type thanks
right here to the chat people. Thank you for all of your congratulations and
stuff. I couldn't have it without you, guys, good old buddies in
the chat room. Chat's a lot of fun. So all right, well,
let's move on to the guest. I do have a little bit of
a Roswell special type of thing to do. However, I want to bring
Don on to share this experience with him, and hopefully he doesn't mind,
because I'd like to hear his comments on this little thing. I'm gonna do.
Well, but guess what, I am gonna have to dial down,
and every time I dial, I think you guys know what that means.
There's some dial music. And I know you've probably heard enough about Michael Jackson.
A lot of people are like, I heard enough about that. I'm
Michael Jackson, and you know he was good. His music was extraordinary.
So here's my rendition, which Mama say ma masama, ma Gusa, i'ma
say ma masama, Markusa. I'm gonna say ma masama, mak gusa,
I'm say a massama Masha. I was like, oh, gotta get old
right yet stuck in the may though, and then they pay me. Well,
you got to be stopping something, dude, dude, Hello, Hello,
Yeah, hey don it's Alejandro. Hi. How are you doing.
How are you great? Well, I'm really excited to have you on the
show, and thank you very much for coming on. I'm just really hyped
up. If people can't tell, I'm I'm kind of being a little silly
because I'm so excited for next week. But I'm also yeah, it's gonna
be And you live in Roswell, right you have to do Yeah, so
you've got to not much of a commute, not like Grant Cameron who's driving
all the way from Canada. Yeah. We told him we're not good.
We told him we would pay for a Greyhound, just kidding. We've offered
to playing me. He said, I'm driving. I want to see America.
Oh, well that's a good way to do it. Yeah. Well,
you have quite an interesting background. Your PhD is in English or mathematics.
Okay, an English, but I'm a mathematician by profession, so okay,
nothing but able to decide between the left bling and the right bray and
I suppose yeah, well that's perfect. I mean, the super geniuses are
using both sides, right. Well, I don't know, I don't know
that I've ever been accused particularly well balanced. But you also were in the
Air Force, has had top secret clearance there, and you what for Chinese
language, but you also know Spanish and French. Yeah, you know,
I'm embarrassed to say with my name Alejandra Rojas, I don't even know Spanish.
I've always been kind of a kind of a language fruit. Cool.
Well, that is really cool. And of course you're our state director for
move Fund, which is great. Yeah. Well, I want to get
uh huh cool. I'm glad. Well, I want to get into a
lot of this stuff. However, if you don't mind, I wanted to
bring you on first, just to get into the mood of Roswell. I
want to play the original Roswell radio cast on the incident. I hope you
don't mind. No, of course, there's some people have probably heard this,
but there's probably a lot of people who didn't hear this, so it's
a lot of fun. So let's listen to that real quick and then I'd
like to hear your comments on it. Sure headline of this. In July
eighth, nineteen forty seven, the Army Air Forces has announced that a flying
disc has been found and there's now in the possession of the Army. Army
officers say the missile, found sometime last week has been inspected at Wilswell,
New Mexican and sent to right Field, Ohio for further infections. Russia has
demanded un action to get all foreign military person now out of Greece. Southern
soft co operators have not yet reached agreement with John L. Lewis, but
the rest of the soft coal industry has resumed production. The House of Representatives
has passed the tax reduction Bill by more than the two thirds which would be
required toward the ride of veto Headline edition of englishpecial reports and interviews in a
moment. The American Broadcasting Company A affiliated stations present Headline Edition with Taylor Grant
from all over the world wherever the day's headlines are made. Headline Edition brings
you accurate primary reports on the news behind those headlines, but informity then person
interviews with the men and women who made the headlines today. Today's edition presents
around us of the latest developments in the finding of a flying disc, an
eye witness report of today's significant action in the un Security Council, Ohio Congressman
Thomas A. Genton commenting on today's House action on text legislation, a special
report of the state of the soft coal negotiations, and the details of today's
All Star Baseball game. Reported from Chicago's Stay in step with history of the
making state tuned to headline editions now Here's Taylor Grants. Late this afternoon,
a bulletin from New Mexico suggested that the widely publicized mystery of the flying Sauters
may soon be solved. Army Air Force officers reported that one of the strange
discs had been found and inspected sometime last week. Our correspondents in Los Angeles,
San Chicago have been in contact with Army officials, endevoring to obtain all
possible late information. Jill Wilson reports with Now from Chicago, the Army may
be getting to the bottom of all this talk about the so called flying saucers.
As a matter of fact, the five hundred and nine Atomic Bombs Group
headquarters at Roswell, New Mexico, reports that it has received one of the
discs, which landed on a rant outside Roswell. The this landed at a
rant at Corona, New Mexico, when a rancher turned it o to the
Air Force ranch or WW Brazil was the man who discovered the soffer. Colonel
William Blanchard of the Rothwell Air Base refuses to give the tails of what the
flying disc looked like. In Fort Worth, Texas, where the object was
first sent, Rigadier General Roger Ramie says that it is being shipped by air
to the AAF Research Center at Wrightfield, Ohio. A few moments ago,
I talked to officials at right Field, and they declared that they expect the
so called flying soffer to be delivered there, but that it hasn't arrived as
yet. In the meantime. General Ramie describes the object as being of flimsy
construction, almost like a box type. He says that it was so batter
that he was unable to determine whether it had a disc form, and he
does not indicate its size. Raymie says that, so far as can be
determined, no one saw the object in the air, and he describes it
as being made of some sort of tinfoil. Other Army officials say that further
information indicates that the object had a diameter of about twenty to twenty five feet,
and that nothing in the apparent construction indicated any capacity for speed, and
that there was no evidence of a power plant. But this also appeared Jill
Flimsey to carry a man. Now back to Taylor Grant in New York,
there was important activity within the UN Security Council today. All right, Well
there it is. It's a lot of fun to hear it. And it's
interesting that they mentioned that the Air Force may be close to having more answers
on this UFO issue, I mean, sounding like the flying sauce issue.
It was a big deal during that time. Well, you know the thing
it's really amusing about that the reference to you, you know, the statement
to the effect now that now that you know we've recovered of this object,
we'll be able to solve the ministery right Well, you know, I mean
the Listery still isn't solve. He had odd years later, you know,
there was still glappily. But I think if there ever was a misplaced optimism,
you know that, I mean in the level they can think the distory
would be solved just because they had one. Yeah, well that whoever recovered
that craft definitely has more answers than the rest of us. Yeah, but
I'm inpring to agree with those those investigators who say that the cover up,
you know, very likely is a cover up of ignorance, because it's quite
possible that the people who have the wreckage and so forth, you are still
scratching our heads trying to figure out what makes it all work. Yeah,
you know, I mean it couldn't be. I mean we're probably talking about
technology. It's so different from ours that you know, it would be like
dropping a swift watch in the middle of a of a of a of a
settlement of them, you know, in the in the Dawn Stone Age.
Yeah. I like the analogy that Stanton Friedman uses where he talked about if
you were to give Columbus a nuclear submarine, you know, yeah, what
were to deal with that? Yeah? Yeah, So what do you think
about Colonel Corso's claims then that he helped distribute some of the pieces. Well,
certainly the notion that pieces were distributed around and and and various companies and
various entities were were asked to uh, you know, study them and perhaps
back engineer them. That's that's quite feasible. And given that, actually,
if you look at the at the technological curve, so to speak, you
know, when did the thing start getting developed and so forth? Uh?
I mean ciniconductors as an impable patented in late nineteen forty seven, and you
know, it's as if the whole technological curve just put this turn upward,
you know about that point, and so definitely doesn't stretch my imagination. May
right, who do you suppose that there was a glaby little back engineer.
Yeah, and you know we're gonna have in Roswell Paula Harris talking about Colonel
Corso and from what all I've seen, she seems to be, uh,
the person who was closest to him while he was talking about all this stuff.
Right, Yeah, So she'll be showing some interviews that she did with
him and talking a lot about that. That ought to be great. Well,
I think it will be you know mm hmm, so uh being living
in Roswell We had Jesse Marcel on last week and I asked Jesse about edgar
Mitchell because edgar Mitchell who lived in Roswell as a kid. He said that
he knew a lot of people coming forward talking about what they saw and what
the experienced people who lived in Roswell. Do you see have that sort of
thing happening to you? Well, because you know, as far as it's
our primary original witnesses though, you know it was it was a lot easier.
They were a lot easier to come by, you know, years and
years ago than they are now. You know, we're playing in a game
of I'm sorry to put it like this, they're racing the undertaker pretty much.
You know, it's still being able to talk to original witnesses now,
but there's a one time, you know, there must have been a lot
of people around here really new firsthand you know what has happened here. Yeah,
do you do you still? Do you have people come to you occasionally
that hey, well the only I did have one new witness who had handled
degree and he didn't want to be identified. I wrote about him in the
Mussan Journal, giving him an assumed name, you know, and he actually
told me the story of handling some degree when he was out on a hunting
exhibition with with mac Brasel and the glass will pull the metal stuff out of
it. So let's pluff this up against you know, the bottom of the
the ski tree and shoot at and they they were hitting it with a with
a thirty off fifth beer rifle you know, and then flipping it up in
the air and everything, and it wasn't even bitting it. Wow, and
the what as I said, you know, I had a very very memory
of that and didn't want to be identified. Yeah, Jesse had an interesting
story where he was like at a bar or something and some guy was talking
about how he was at the bar and someone he was talking with, some
researcher, and he said, you know what, I I put a couple
of those pieces in my saddle bag. I'll have to show you one day.
And then the next day he said, people showed up at his door
and said you need to give us that material, and he gave it to
him and and but yeah, the very next day someone showed up. And
the scary thing about that, I know what, I've been into the bar
in Colonna. It's a kind of a landmark. And also the Roswell case
because as we sometimes put up, that's where that's where he lost at loop.
He hadn't been picking up pieces of a Bill Brazel, you know.
And the puery thing is that that that there would be somebody in that bar
that that much way, you know, fits into all of that and reporting
it and reporting it so promptly that it all got confiscated in this morning.
Yeah, you know, that's pretty pretty scary when you think about it.
Yeah, how far back does your family go in ros Wand Oh my life?
And I just moved here in nineteen ninety six. We okay from New
Hampshire. I grew up in West Texas. That we lived in New England
for many years. Did you move out there to work at that un m
and now rest? Well, I actually we moved back here, as I
said that, mostly because we just love New Mexico and of course specifically Roswell,
because of our interest in your Yeah. I taught at the Eastern Mexican
University, the Rove will Brea here until I was tired a couple of years
ago. That's actually I still teach there, but I only wanted two cords
with part time cool. Well, we do have someone who was in the
chat who wanted to call in and ask a question? And that looks like
he's here, so let me bring him on the air. And he goes
by man in black, so hopefully he's not really well, we'll hand him
back. Yeah, we'll find out real quick. Here if this works,
come on here it goes is man in black on the air. All right,
Hello, hey there, how you doing? Oh not too bad?
Thanks for having me. Yeah, thanks for calling. So you got a
question? I do. I have a few questions if I can ask a
few questions here. My first question is, uh is for you and your
guest, And thanks to your guest for doing in the show, and thanks
for you for putting it on. Have you guys heard of a gentleman by
the name of Ed Grimsley? And if so, what do you think of
his research? Do you want to know Ed Grimsley? He doesn't ring any
bells that I have heard of him. And yeah, he's the guy who
takes night scope binoculars and looks up in this guy and often see stuff,
And yeah, I think that's worth doing. I mean, I've seen satellites.
I couldn't see what the naked eye with these things, and I think
it's great that people are doing that. And I've seen some of his stuff
which is so is unexplainable. So yeah, I think that's interesting. Now
what do you think of that sort of thing? I think really good thing
to do. Yeah, yeah, there's there's video of it on the website.
Yeah, you've got video on his website. So it's really interesting.
Yeah. So did you have another question? Yeah, just one more question.
If there's a few things that I believe we without a lot of speculation,
that we know about the UFO phenomenon. Obviously I haven't done as much
research as your guest, but as I take it, there's only really two
things besides abductions and these other things, that we really know. One is
that they don't want to formally introduce themselves to us. They don't want to
come down and shake our hand or park on the White House lawn. And
number two is that they have seem to have a higher technology than us.
By these crafts moving around the way they're moving, it seems that they have
a higher intellect and a higher technology than us. So keeping in mind that
we only really know those two factors or just just for speculation, purposes if
you could entertain me. What do you think is that that? What do
you think that that means? Knowing that they don't want to introduce themselves,
they'd rather just watch us and not show us their world, and number two
that they have a higher technology they don't seem to want to share with us.
All right, Yeah, don well, I'm not planned to think that
the whole business not wanting to be kind of you know, cause buddies,
if not so to speak, you know, is in fact just part of
the fact that they do probably have, you know, a very advanced standing
technological compared a lot. It's kind of like if you work against study a
lower animal of some sort, you know, if you if you if you're
actually standing there, you know, the magnifying life looking at an ant column,
you know, you don't say that the f O I'm mister Jones.
Uh hello, mister you know, basically you stand there and studies that you
know, because you have no reason to, you know, to even even
even think about communicating with them in a variable maybe the same relationship with us.
Yeah, I guess you could say something similar with uh, a lion
in the in the field, will we'll take them down, you know,
tranquilize them, work on them, uh medical experiments, and then put them
back in the field. But we don't we don't even have the ability to
really converse with them. Yeah, some some abduction with the people who you
claim to have been that have said that it's shocked them that they're interviewers so
to speak of the captor or whatever you want to call them. Did it
eas to be too impressed with the fact that you could even communicate, that
we could even talk, you know, that we even have a language.
Yeah, it's a well, you know, you should be impressed with it,
but they will. That's buddy, all right, Well, thank you
man in black, thank you for taking my calling. Then thank you.
There's also someone else in the call cue, but their hand isn't up,
so I'm not sure if you're if you're calling trying to call in, I
push a one if you want to ask a question, and that lets me
know, because sometimes people call in just to listen, which is fine too
because you can listen on your phone. Interesting to that UFO paranormal network I
was talking to, they say a lot of their listeners are streaming over their
telephones and listening that way. These days where it's the techno phone technology gets
better. But what other sort of you know, interesting cases or interesting stories
do you have out there in New Mexico since you've been UH State director out
there. Oh well, we get a lot of citing reports. I've got
it. In fact, just I think the three weeks that I had got
eight reports in one league, which is something of a record for US.
I think that as usual, a lot of them don't really end up being
anything very very definitive. But we have had some interesting things happened. I
did my wife and I actually interviewed a couple of Woodmanses a few years ago
about one hundred miles north of here, where they had had this experience kind
of experience and they didn't know what to make of them. So they called
at the time John Shutwer, you know, who was international director, and
he called me and we went up an interviewed, and they had been driving
at night and had a lost time experience that involved an impression of driving in
a spiral, you know, in a place where the road was straight,
and of having white spinning and so forth and so on, and we had
quite a time interview. And then one of the witnesses was very reluctant to
actually come along with two sisters. Actually, one of the sisters didn't want
to come in. I like to see that, actually, I would love
to see that then than see witnesses overly eager to be interviewed, because you
know, there's certainly no chance that that the shy sister, you know,
was just trying to you know, be a wannabe, you know, just
get a name in the journal or something, you know, because because she
was reluctant to even to even talk to us, that's actually a good sign
a lot. Yeah, yeah, when the people want to remain anonymous or
reluctant, I know, I read recently, I think and Roger Marshall posted
something about a signing out there where people acting jets chasing UFOs possibly. Yeah,
of course there was a big hoop of are in Texas too, you
know in January seventh with the jets chasing the object. I actually signed a
new witness to that oneman. Even though it's not my state, you know,
I gave it one. I can't go kent Cherry to call and but
hey, you know, you want to talk to the lady about you know,
Northeast of dollars if she had seen them out and I'll just huggling over
the like or where they live. Oh wow, that doesn't have any strange
stuff in the sky. You just have to come and look more. Yeah,
one interesting and New Mexico so full of It's my second favorite state,
second of my home state of Colorado. I love New Mexico. But uh,
and I've spent some time. My mom lived out there for about ten
years actually, and I have family roots out there. And while she was
out there, there was a guy who told a story about he delivered furniture.
My sister worked with him for a little while, and he would go
out to the middle of the of the desert once in a while and they
would he would only he wouldn't see anything until you get real close. You
see a covered hillside with a big door there, and he dropped off furnitures
at these doors. And one time he got to go in and he went
on this you know, hydraulic thing that took him down a few levels in
these huge hallways. They had him drive the truck up and then dropped the
furniture off in one of these huge hallways. Really. Yeah, so you
hear a lot of things about about you know, underground structures and so forth.
I had somebody, actually a military person, tell me one time that
you can drive from from the Army base and Fort Fort Bluffs, you know
in El Paso up to the White Fence Missile Range cow really the ground.
Yeah, yeah, there's actually supposed to be a tunnel with you to do
that. He said, Yeah, I know about it, and I've seen
it. You know, Wow, I'm sure it's sake nice and cool that
would say, you know that, It adds me, I think more as
a story coming from a military guy who probably had reason to know, you
know, and so you know, there are a lot of stories about above
and underground structures and tunnels and bases. And the thing about in Mexico is
we have one of the highest concentrations of places where there's classified work going on
or has been going on. You know, have almost been around the plant.
I mean, you know, you said, listening things like Los Alamos
and Holomand Air Force Base and Sandia Labs and Kirkland Air Force Base, and
you know, all those places, and one can kind of understand why another
race might be interested in having a look around here. Yeah. I love
looking at Google Maps, especially at Kirkland Air Force Base and the stuff in
the mountains there, because like you said, there's San Dia Labs. There's
also Monsanto Mountain which used to hold the nukes and now you can see tanks
and all these openings that go into the mountains and then you see where they
hold the nukes now in that big underground facility. And you see the most
interesting things on the Currentland Air Force Base when you looked on Google Maps.
And it's fun because I remember flying into Albuquerque once and there is a jet
fighter jet that was landing right with us there. Well, so yeah,
I have reason to think of that. Actually, the Roswell wreckage was some
of the perhaps temporarily taken to Carlsbad Caverns MHM for the storage until kind of
the heat was off with us who could be moved without some troop lot and
attention because Molly and I went down to a cause that's two years ago and
such an old newspaper file and we found out for about a week or a
week and a half or so after the Roswell incident, they were all kinds
of strange. I think military groups coming in out of town all the time,
these little foods, you know, would show up and they would have
lunch somewhere and then they'll all get them a bus and go somewhere, you
know, and then it's come back like in an hour and get an airplane
and leave. And if if you know, the waiters or whoever the hotel
people ask them where you guys from, you know, they would say things
like California, you know, and you would say, well, we're in
California, and they would say California, you know. And they seemed to
him to be a sort of a little flurry of military activity there just about
a week and a half or so after Oswald. Wow, that was I'm
inclined. Well, you know, Kyle's Big Caverns has something in the order
of between fifty and sixty entrances that are not available to the public right.
It also has controlled temperatures, a certain temperature a year round at fifty seven
fifty eight degrees all the time. And if you wanted to get that stuff
out of side and have a look at it in any kind of way till
all the hoop while you know, died down and then put a carple it
and move it up. You know, some of the way that that would
be the Tinkleari storage points and examination plays I would have, Yeah, lots
of I know, even though the caverns that you can walk in are humongous.
I know, it's only a certain fraction that are available to the public
even yeah, yeah, yeah, and that was even more true, and
that is forty seven you know, lots of it opens in. But now
I think, yeah, well, and you know, that's another great reason
to go down to Roswall because Carl's back Caverns is some amazing stuff. I
love going there and and it's nice when you're there's one hundred and fifteen degrees
out I think when we went, but you get down into that sixty degree
cavern and that's thanks. Yeah, that's pretty nice. So let's get into
the Marilyn Monroe research that you've done. How did you get into that?
Well, there had been that cia in memo you know about Mallan that came
out in August third, nineteen sixty two, the nineteen sixty two, just
a day before the death, and that had been sticulating for quite a while.
I had a hand and I was helping i'llthdicate that document. And so
how did it come out. Well, you mean, how did the authentication
come out? Ah? Now where did the where was the document found?
Was it under freedom of information or was it was it was a Floyer release.
And I actually at one point put in a Floyer request of the CIA
for the wiretaff transports of Malin's telephone and for a copy of her diary,
which disappeared from the kind of us, you know, a couple of days
after she died. And naturally, you know, I didn't know none of
the STIPs was released to me. But the interesting thing is, in the
case of the of the y tap transcripts, they said, you know,
we aren't. You know, we don't. We don't find anything responsible to
your request and we're not releasing anything. So of course I filed an appeal.
And when I filed the appeal, I used the appeal on the CIA
memo, the CIA Mariland memo of August third, nineteen sixty two, which
cashed the copy of ITIM thing, you know, it's because of this that
I think you know you do in fact have you know the memo actually said
she you know, her phone wasn't being tapped, so you must have those
transcripts. And they accepted the appeal, they sent it to the Agency release
panel. At the time, George Tennant was running the KIA and he and
you know what happened, was going to go to the Agency release Chanel Senate
and whoever is running you know, the agency at the time, and the
top people basically meet and they decide whether or not to release something. But
they think if it doesn't even make sense to send it to the panel,
it was not it to believe. The point is really that the memo or
whether the appeal wouldn't have been accepted unless the agency regarded the document as legitimate,
and it was unless they were willing to actually not that it was their
right. They don't accept appeal, you know, based on both it's documents,
right, so that that authenticates the document right there. And I got
interested in it through that and I started really looking into it and looking into
things like Marilynd's boyfriend at the time she died with Fella that uful Belong was
a Mexican screenwriter who lived in la actually at the time, and the fact
that he had called her just minutes before she died. And then later when
Anthony Summers interviewed in the nineteen nineteen eighty three, twenty one years later,
he said, Marylyn told me something that not on the phone that will one
day shock the whole world. Hmm, that's an interesting thing, because,
yeah, I mean will one day it still hadn't you know? It was
the point make the the third fence. And they sadly, I mean,
the whole world wouldn't be shocked by things like the fact that she was having
affairs with Bobby Kennedy and Jack Kennedy and other people. Nobody would be shocked
by that. They'd be shocked if they weren't. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
exactly. And the CIA memo actually said that one of the one of
the agencies concerned was that Marilyn was aware that Jack Kennedy had gone to a
secret air base for the purpose of looking at of inspecting things from outer space.
I mean, the memoi actually says that, yeah, maybe you could
go over some of the other things the memo for people who aren't familiar with
the memo said, well, picarly talked about wire taps on her phone and
some other phones, the people that she knew, and the fact that they
were they were nervous about the fact that she was keeping a diary in which
she apparently he's writing down a lot of things that the Kennedy's were telling her.
And then it does make that very very telling remark, you know that
about being as an airbase and so forth. It's uh the reason why,
of course I turned in that foyer request, and I knew that I wouldn't
get. You know, there's the wire time transcription. You know, you're
not going to get things like that, but they wouldn't be spectacular. They
would have to be because it's, in fact, Melan told Clothe Belongos what
I'm pretty sure she did tell him. You know, that's the last thing
in the world they want to see on the front pages of the New York
Times and you know the La Times, which is exactly where I would have
put it. Yeah, yeah, So what more did you discover with that?
So what is your belief about how and why she died? Well,
I I think that that the afternoon that she uh of the union, she
died such a few hours before the fable event, Bobby Kennedy went over to
her house. He was in town for a for a legal convention, and
uh he uh he and Allen had a big sight because because he asked her
for the diary. He was getting a diary. You know, my family
will pay you for it. There were there were there were surveillance tapes at
her house. Could actually you could actually he was them yelling at her and
saying, I mean I want that diary and I want it now, you
know, wow, where the black blank is it? You know? And
and my family will pay you for and so forth, she threw him out
of the house. To her credit. U and uh, I think Zobby
said. What happened was when he when he he went back over to Peter
Lawford's beach house in Santa Monica, and they kind of sat and licked their
wounds because actually Peter Lawford had been along too at her house at the same
time, and he could be hurt on the tape trying to calm Bobby down,
you know. And I think Bobby figured at that point she had been
talking about having a news conference, and in fact, on one of the
wire taps, she had been heard to say She's going to have a news
conference un quote, tell all unquote. And I think Bobby taught you,
you know what if she tells the big one, you know that Jack actually
gave her classified information. I mean, he could be impeached for guess it's
like he could be actually indicted for treason. You know, the whole house
of cards are going to come down, and she has a news conference on
that, and I think he decided right then that they had to take her
off. But I think you tend to take her out. And that's what
happened. I mean, basically, Bobby and two guys carrying medical bags showed
up at the house and at ten thirty in the evening and they ordered the
Jinnie to murray the housekeeper and her her son in law who was the groundskeeper
out there's a get out of the house, go somewhere, you know.
They went next door and watched through the through the neighbor's window, and then
they said, these guys came out a little later, and they went back
over to the house and Maryland was lying or die and her toxicality report later
showed that she her blood at the time of death had a toxicity density of
four point five milligrams percent tint of barbitall and eight point zero milligrams percent chlorohydrate,
which actually would kill about fifteen to twenty people. Wow, and there's
no way in the world. She'd got that stuff in her, in her
blood, taking mendiutall tablets. I mean, you know she just didn't you
know, it wasn't that. You can't be that it was not that it
was murdered. Yeah. I had read a story in the La Times.
They did a couple of stories, one of those being how also how it's
hurt. The first person who had done an autopsy was concerned, and he
sat there spelled play because some of the stuff went missing, some of her
body parts and stuff went missing. Well, and there's a lot of paperwork
missing too. The Clutters report started off being seven hundred and fifty odd pages
long. Wow, and about seven hundred pages of that stuff disappeared. Wow.
It was brought to Lionel Grandis on his sign. He looked at it
and said, well, you know, this is not the style I saw.
You know, this is not the paperwork I saw. And I don't
anyway, I don't think it was suicide. And he was told just sign
it, or things are going to happen to you, he told. He
told someone in an interview years later that that was how he was told this.
Yeah. I think his story covered that that he had believed it was
murdered. He didn't believe that it was yea, and because of the things
you cited, and I think they said they couldn't find out how it was
done that you know, he found out it wasn't pills, and I think
it said he believed it was a suppository. No, it was an injection,
an injection. Yeah, it's feeling way that the biochemically, it's the
only way it makes sense. And it's fairly easy to uh, to conceal
that. For example, if you did the injection and a hair follicle,
it's very hard to find it, very easy for for an autopsis the minister
an injection and a hair follicle. Yeah, oh, I've never heard of
that. It's just the point. I mean, you know, it's just
evile, you know, I see what you're saying. Follicle was about a
knight be that. Yeah, but somebody outel peopill miss it. Hmmm makes
sense. Interesting. So you believe then that explosive information she had was regarding
UFOs. Yeah, that's that's that's what the CIA thought because they said so
mm hmm oh, because it talked about where Jack Kennedy had gone. Yeah,
and then the fact that that was one of the big secrets, you
know, that they were nervous about. And the fact that they actually more
was unwittingly authenticated the document for me by accepting my appeal, you know,
and the fact they have said, the fact that UFOs were the problem mm
hmm. Who originally submitted the original Foyer request to get and receive that I
haven't been able to find out. I know that Timothy Cooper had the had
the document early on, and I think he may have been the original Flower
recused. The document was originally in the hands in his hands and in the
hands of the Milo Spiriglio Detective Agency in Los Angeles very early on. And
were they involved. Were they hired by someone to look into her death?
Not that I know of, but they were involved. I think I think
that either Tim Cooper or someone close to him, you know, I actually
got the documents ushuaia uh huh yeah, wow, really interesting stuff. So
yeah, it seems I seem to be kind of fated, you know,
to to write books about well, to those books that that attempt to rescue
people from the clutches of of of a secrecy obsessed government, you know,
kind of like too late to do the many good firstly with Malo and Mack
was one of those recent books about Robert Oppenheimer, who also got shafted over
UFOs. Yeah, that's the that's gonna be the subjective of my talk at
the FT over years. Yeah. Yeah, because they didn't they didn't kill
Appy, you know, but they did the Yankees' cornas, and they almost
might as well have murdered him because because he was out of basically he never
worked in his field again and after they did that. Yeah, I don't
want to get too into that because I'm trying to get our listeners to come
down and hear you talk about it live. Yeah, as well starting thing
to work on. Yeah, and maybe you can review who for some people
who Oppenheimer was. Yeah, he was. He was basically in charge of
developing the atomic bomb at the at the was almost during the Manhattan Project and
from late nineteen forty two to mid nineteen forty five he was actually a general.
Leslie Gloves was in charge of the projects, but he had to have
a course of scientific you know, chief over the whole thing, and he
chose Oppenheimer. And Oppenheimer of course did developed a bomb as you know it
was tested on July sixteen, nineteen forty five, successfully, and the similar
one was dropped a few days later on on Hiroshima. And basically at the
end of World War Two, he was a national viewer of the type I
don't think we've seen since or before, you know, or ever any other
time. And yet he was portrayed by his own government really sad well.
And what's the official story about how he fell from grace Well, the official
reasons that the Temach Energy Commissions Security Board gave for refusing to run state of
clinics was question bild his loyalty. Basically, you know, the people in
his family had been Communists back in the thirties. We didn't see the bother
of them when they hired him in nineteen forty two, you know. But
also they were concerned about the fact that he had kind of dragged his seat
of the development of the age bomb, and he had explained all of that
during the hearings. He said, I'm not disloyal because because I have doubts
about the age bomb. It's just but I don't think, you know,
I think what we need is tactical weapons, and that's not a tactical weapon.
Yeah. Yeah, he was very hesitant about its usage, and I
know there was a little bit of almost that mutiny where scientists on the project
were really concerned about its usage. Ye, he was the pact, not
a law of being the lots to do it. I mean, you know,
there were people who said we absolutely should not, you know, build
a weapon like that, but there were people out to get him. Hoppy
actually made a lot of enemies. He took a lot of his own problems.
You know, he essentially just made enemies to people that he shouldn't have
made enemy the other times, you know, and they didn't forgive him for
it. And when it came time for a vendetta, you know, they
didn't hesitate to have to play take anyone m hm. Yeah, it's unfortunately,
I'm sure projects like that, it's difficult not to make enemies, especially
with the military when you're during the war, when you're trying to advocate peace.
And Einstein even wrote a letter, didn't he to the president and eventually
about yes he did usage of the bomb, Yes he did. And in
fact, it's funny when when they told OPI that they were pulling it,
they were suspending his clent at hiding house has spent at as client in December
nineteen fifty three, and they told him a few days letter. You're traveling
in Europe at the time. When he got back, they told him,
and they gave him one day to decide whether to decide it or not,
just just to come forget that. Those were these these security board hearings,
you know, putting no board hearings to see if he could get this current
back. He decided to fight. And when somebody told Einstein that but APPI
was gonna side it, Einstein said, well, you know what Oppenheimer's problem
is, he's in love with a woman who does not love him the United
States government. That's a great anta, what a great line. Einstein's got
a lot of them. I'd love using his quotes you So, Yeah,
his wit and his wisdom are just incredible, amazing, amazing guy. And
speaking about Einstein and Oppenheimer's relationship, they wrote a document to the president about
how to deal with extraterrestrials. Isn't that true? That's true? Yeah,
you know they did, which is just another reason that you know, the
Melvin Oppenheim was involved in all this and what was that sure? That document
and what were they telling the president. Well, basically it was just you
know, a document discribing of you know, the probable nature of why elseware
and the fact that one has to has to approach you know, studying it
a certain way and so forth and so on, you know, or rather
rather telling kind of documents. There are other documents, the documents that show
up Inheimers as a an advisor to Majestic twelve mm hm. You know,
And that's sort of thing, you know what, I think that's funny about
the Einstein Oppenheimer letter. But they went over a lot. They talked about
the legal ramifications and and that national law and the creation of interstellar law and
all of this stuff getting caught up in courts. And it's really I've never
heard it since anybody talked thinking about you know, possible with the exception of
that time, you know, President of Riggan told the United Nations that it
might take all to unite, all of the fullness might have it might take
an admissary from space. Yeah, you know, I remember the Middle remark
like that the United Nations one time. Yeah, But and that doesn't really
get into that politics as a law, which is funny, you know,
we'll me that not even that what's called exopolitics, you know, gets into
that sort of thing, right, which is what that implies, you know,
a line. It seems like, you know, that's something you would
need to address in some way. But it's kind of funny where the legal
side of the whole business is fascinating. Fact, I devote a chapter in
my Open Have a book to the fact that there's really no legal basis for
government secrecy except executive orders. Funny president supposed to like law, Yeah,
but they do well. And all those so many of those executive orders,
especially with the Bushes, both of them are secret and you still don't know
what they were. Yeah, yeah, and they're really There is nothing in
constitutional law and nothing in statutory or repellent law but says anything about the government's
willy to keep it within secrets. Not the world no matter thinks of this,
it does not well. And that was a great thing about the Disclosure
Project and their lawyer, Danny Dang. I cannot remember his last name right
now, which is a bummers. It's great. That was his premise.
He worked on the presidential files, the Pentagon files and other things, but
that was their premise. That those secrets, those oaths that they took in
the military to keep those secrets were illegal because of projects were legal, so
they didn't have any lacking a legal basis, if not illegal, if not
legal, even know is right not legal? You know, but you know,
speaking of that as well as space law. You know, people in
the chat here were talking about the moon and crashing that satellite into the Moon
like they want to do, and they were talking about legal law or the
law around space, and someone was like, there's such a thing as space
law, and a lot of people don't know that there is international space law,
and especially just like any international laws lately, the US just ignores that
they exist whatsoever, such as I know, part of space laws, you're
not supposed to fly satellites over other countries and take pictures, and if you
do, you have to share those with that country, exactly, sure,
everybody really of that one. And no weapons, there's supposed to be no
weapons at all in space, yeah, which she's never seen the movie Meteor.
You know, you meant probably about how thats so there is international space
law. Yeah, do you think Oppenheimer or Einstein had anything to do with
those laws? It's conceivable. It's conceivable. Let's they may maybe precipitated some
of that, you know, wouldn't with that memo, Like say, Einstein
was taken fairly seriously in government circles. Yeah, more than Oppenheimer was.
I think Oppenhewer is kind of a hothead. You know. People tended to
be a little afraid of him, you know during that whole business of his
being questioned about you know, loyalty and so forth. But Eisenhower and his
friends kept him away. That's the same time the army and the contact areas
were going on, and Eisenhower and his cronies kept them, kept Oppaphenheimer and
uh Senator McCarthy apart deliberately. They didn't what they didn't let McCarthy go after
him because they moved as McCarthy and Oppenheimer will ever in a room together with
cameras. Uh, it was just going to be a blood letting. I
mean, you know, would just cut them to pieces with a big audience.
You know. They didn't want that to happen, so they kept them
apart. That's too bad. Yeah, Yeah, it would have been funny
to see. Yeah, he's had it coming to that. McCarthy yeah,
for sure. So with Eisenhower, what is your belief about what Eisenhower knew
and if you really did you know, handle these events Roswell and all of
these Oh, I think yeah, I think that most of these things,
you know. You know, we've had the stories of Eisenhower going to a
place in looking at wreckage and whatnot. I think I think the the stories
of his family pronounced involvement in the beautiful question are almost certainly true or valid
because for the simple reason he was the next military man. He made lots
of connections. I mean, actually, the fact that he was a left
end in nineteen fifty three and Harry Truman wasn't president anymore made a big difference,
because if if Truman had had stayed president, I think it could have
been different. But when Eisenhower came in, all the military guys had to
say to him though about you know, it was, hey, I remembered
that favor you all made, remember when we served together, you know,
and so forth, and we needed to kind of fit him this thanks for
a while longer, and I'm sure that the secrecy things much easier to keep
going with him than it would have been with Truman. You know, yeah,
and you know that I think being a military man, his speech when
he left office is really, I think pretty incredible and a lot of wisdom
which we're suffering from not listening to his way of them. When he talked
about watching out for the dangers of misplaced power in the defense industry. Yeah,
yeah, yeah, exactly. But you know heinsight, well you know
what they say about hindsight had always been twenty twenty right, exactly so,
and then uh, Majestic twelve you mentioned with Oppenheimer. Of course that was
supposed to have started during the Eisenhower years, right, well, yeah,
Actually, actually the common understanding I think is that is the Truman first appointed
these people, and actually Appenhammer never was, it was according to the list
we see and everything, was never a member. But he I have seen
one memotive defense. He was a He was a an advisor to them.
But these were people that just Trence just went across the lines, you know,
when when when one president was re closed by another, you know,
the public still is something like you're just like twelve new people on other nethersent.
So you do believe that Majestic twelve did, and possibly I think I
think the work that Stan Friedman has done on that you know well stands pretty
well that Yeah, yeah, really, you know, I've got his book
and if Stanton says something, of course he's skeptical of a lot of stuff,
but if he puts his stamp of approval on it, you know that
he has done a lot of research. Yeah, it has overcome his own
skepticism to do so, you know, right, which is a skepticism being
of course, the healthy attitude about everything. You know, if you've start
off saying, well I'm not going to believe it until I'm convinced, then
if you are in those they really means something. Yeah, well that's science.
I mean he comes from a skeptical perspective. That's what you do in
science exactly. So JFK. Then do you what do you believe about here
knowledge in uh on this subject of UFOs. Well, if we you know,
I can can believe that that c I a memo of which I think
we can because, as I said, I kind of get the CIA to
authenticate it. He knew about it, I mean, you know, he
had seen probably debris and bodies and you know he was either then there have
been rumors that Coach for years, but that the thing that gottn assassinate had
might it might have been that he was going to be classify everything. Yeah,
he was the type of person you know if she said to him,
well you can't do that, he would say, yes, I can,
mm hmm, you know, and that may have been what, you know,
what did him in on the end. So there were rumors immediately after
his assassination if the CIA is involved in I used to wonder why to do
that, you know, but they are actually pretty defensible reasons for the right.
Yeah, I know that part of you right from that point of view
exactly with uh JFK. You know, there's been uh I think it's been
Michael Sala and or Alfred Lambert who have been writing about speaking of extrapolitics,
about JFK opening up our space exploration with Russia to work together on that,
and that there were suspicions that he was also then going to open up UFO
files with Russia. Have you heard much about that? Yeah, yeah,
I've seen of course the famous Mama who he talks about just a safety you
know, the Soviet Union in the United States and other countries have to know
about them. Identified flying objects because say, along to identify one could start
a nuclear war. Uh huh, but what if what if something a novel
of shows up in the sky and country anythinks that it's country be firing blue
nipple couple A. You know, you have to know the different and the
difference. No, no, fairly detail nimble about that that I was saying,
Yeah, it reminds me. I think I mentioned this last time because
so much of that era and that stuff reminds me of Doctor Strangeland I just
thought, oh, yeah, yeah exactly. I mean it's a it's just
to have lived through that time is quite an interesting figure. I mean there's
a lot of tension. You know, there's a lot of tonio h very
very strange time. Yeah, I know, there's a gentleman ken Storch.
No, no, he's a move on investigator and a police officer out here.
And actually before this Discovery Channel television show, did you catch the UFOs
over Earth's shows? Oh no, oh, that's too bad. I've got
him, and I think I copy them, and I think since they're not
being distributed, we can probably I'll see if we can distribute those. But
because that was it was focused on Mouf on the Discovery Channel shows. But
before that, there was actually another pilot shot of move On Investigations and this
guy Ken Short's police officer, mouf On Investigator was the host of those.
But he was in the military and he says he was part of an incident
where they did catch UFO on radar and they were really scared and they were
ready to push the button and they were watching these things and it changed course
and yeah, it changed course and went towards Canada, and he was thinking,
well, let them New Canada as long as it's but they were happy
that, you know. He said. It was a real tense moment.
But that's that's called development. But I mean, you know, the governments
can't afford not to study UFOs. They have to. I mean, we've
got admit a couple of countries in the world right now, you know,
threatening nuclear war, and you know, a country just has to know what's
in the air. You know, they got to know the difference between something
that's supposed to be there and something you're not supposed to be, something that's
man maybe something that isn't. Yeah, well, with all those tensions in
the Middle East and with that exactly North Korea, you know, like UFO,
what would they do and that launch on Japan or another ally, So
anytime anytime a government says to you we're not interested in UFOs, you know
you're correct response to it. You can't be that stupid. Of course,
you have to be well. And the beautiful thing is is that a lot
of countries do admit that they're interested in UFOs. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah, the Brazil, Mexico, Belgium and uh, you know what
the that's what's great about you know I Nick Pope, Yeah, he'll be
there with us in Roswell and he'll be talking about Britain opening up the files,
which is great because Nick did a lot of conferences this year because of
all the British news. But the British news is died down and Nick hasn't
talked in a few months, and I know there's more that's gone. So
we're going to be able to hear to catch up on some of that stuff.
But yeah, exciting, mm hmm. It should be great. And
then of course we sprung something on you that I haven't talked to you about
yet. I know Free did so and another thing that hopefully you're open for
doing and if not, that's flying too. All those little the work.
Yeah, so yeah, yeah, I signed up to the two of those
and I'm looking forward to them. Cool. Great because I'm going to write
up an agenda, but you can do what you want and also bring a
disc of pictures so we can go over a lot of pictures with people.
I think people love UFO pictures and I downloaded a bunch of them from a
British paper that put up like twenty five great UFO photos. Well yeah,
I actually had planted too with my sessions to talk a little about the about
like clapsification system for cool, I can see how we tell them what kind
of siding and you know, exciting news. Yeah, that's a great idea
if you need it. I've got a clip of Alan j Heinek and close
Encounters like yeah, because I have actually done a number of sessions on the
l AT system, you know, really like let's say what move from reading
and oh cool, just to be sure everybody understands how it will works.
That's it's it's a new system mm hmm. Yeah yeah, And I mean
somebody had to put something together, but so out of uh, I guess
getting into some of the speakers and stuff out there. Well, actually I
wanted to Oh, I was going to ask something about m J twelve,
but more about that. It was John Alexander. Do you know of him?
Oh? I can't. Yeah, well I was going to ask you
about that, but it already sounds like John Alexander worked for the military.
And the news I gave Earliers are creating a movie loosely based on him.
George Clooney's going to play him, actually, and it's going to be a
dark comedy. And they asked him to look into different paranormal subjects and he
did, and his thing is mostly psych warfare and non lethal weapons, which
is kind of scary stuff of course. But he goes to people by him
to UFO conferences and he talks about how the government doesn't know anything about UFOs
well, but like they better know about it. Yeah, they better know
something, uh exactly. So, but you know you had mentioned m J
twelve and stuff, so you certainly don't seem to agree with that perspective.
Interesting. Yeah, so some of the other speakers that are going to be
out there in roswell, so we can get some people excited about that.
Yeah, it's good. It's quite an interesting whip. I know, International
Director James Carrying is going to be speaking, and also Cliff withs Gong with
of the documents expert, and he lives there locally, right, Yeah,
known for you a little fun uh huh oh cool, great, Yeah,
he's got some fascinating information. Yeah, I've seen I think actually that's what
had Cliffer do. I thought that at Statewide moved on a meeting on time.
And of course this guy had got hundreds of thousands of pages of documents.
You know that he's probe out of one government agency or another over the
years. M hm, he's really into it. Yeah. Well, and
because he's a local, because he's a nice guy, and I have all
of that information I knew. I Luckily nobody has made an issue of it.
I thought people were going to give me a little bit of trouble over
uh, inviting Cliffs for our talk because he's so highly controversial. Well but
you want that, I mean, you know, without any controversy, what
would this field do? You know? Yeah? Boring? Yeah, pretty
much. We might as well just be a knitting club. Oh yeah,
yeah, So I was really excited to bring him on. He's definitely probably
one of our most controversial guys there. And then Travis Walton. Have you
ever got to see him? Oh yeah, yeah, I've actually never met
Travis Walton, but yeah, I'm hopefully coming weekend. I think we're glad
to have him coming out. Oh yeah, definitely. He is so down
to earth, such a nice guy, and that is one of the things
that's great about meeting Travis Walton. He you know, he doesn't have some
kind of polished talk. He's still up until very recently, I don't he
was talking about stopping, but I don't think he has. But up until
recently, he's still a lumberjack, you know, working ten twelve hour days
out there Allen Moggs cutting down logs and stuff. So yeah, so and
you know, know, you meet him and you know how old he is,
but he's that doesn't look at he's still really fitting. But just a
it's great to see him talk about his experience and see what kind of person
he is and just how down to earth he really is. Yeah, mot
of just his his account, you know, all the more all the more
crotability for another, it is not even feak about him not not not believing
that they all really happened him that they had to. Yeah, it's kind
of like Betty and Barnie Hill, you know, I mean they have they
fake that, you know, they couldn't count mm hmm. What do you
think about this? There? You know, the caller called in and talked
about abductions I've heard lately from some abduction or a I should say abduction researcher.
He believes that Betty and Barney Hill was not an extraterrestrial abduction, but
uh, military abduction. Well, anything is possible. Yeah, the it
doesn't really that's a hypothesis. It doesn't really account for everything. Mm hmm.
It doesn't account for Betty's done that for one thing. Yeah. Uh.
This is Joe Montealdo and I hope to have him the show to talk
more about that because yeah, yeah, he says, I know you're probably
skeptical, and yes I am, but uh no, but you know the
thing you think of business, how science were science was but a like computing
hypothesies, you know, right, and looking at which ones account for everything
best. Yeah, and that's what I love, and that's why you know,
I'm certainly I love the openness and why we should listen to Clifford Stone
and all these guys, because exactly like you said, science doesn't start with
listening to witness testimony and saying, oh, that's not possible and blowing it
off. That's not science. And those scientists who do that are not good
scientists. That's right. Science is taking that witness testimony they observed phenomena and
trying to put a hypothesis to it and test it and trying to figure it
out exactly. And that's why, you know, it's really a good way.
Let's see, let's see moving in that diruption. You know, for
seven years the field of uposed studies was considered kind of suspect by a lot
of people. You know, it was considered like not really valid or not
reallyal science or something. And now we're actually not going to beginning to make
it clear that it is scient mm hmm. It has to be, Yeah,
that's what it has to be. Yeah, I know. It moved
on there some of us working on a science conference with a typical you know,
scientific symposium. We've they've written up to call for papers and trying to
have it kind of like a SETI conference, but beyond because we're gonna entertain
of course more hypotheses than SETI would, right, Yeah, And I don't
know, yeah, and I don't know if you saw this, but the
only place I saw was in a blog where this guy uh does news on
SETI and stuff like that, and he blogs on UFOs and things. He
went to the SETI conference last year in France and there were two scientists,
one from France and I think one from Italy, and they both talked about
UFOs in their SETI talk, which SETI I'm sure didn't appreciate. One of
them talking about how they're here and he was talking about how it's probably this
he was hypothesizing on why they don't interact with us, and he was kind
of the same as what Stanton freedom and talks about, they're probably containing us
because we're wild animals observing us at the same time. So that was interesting.
And then another one who was talking about how we really need to look
at UFOs because they're here and people are seeing them, and you know that's
for we're going to find some more information exactly. So yeah, the only
way anybody can plain that there are most that there are no UFOs is to
demonstrate that every single object ever seen anytime, but anyone anywhere in the sky
has been positively or identified as something familiar mm hmm. And that is simply
not possible. M h I mean, the definition of the UFO is simple
as something in the air and we don't know what it is, you know,
and Heaven knows a lot of that, a lot of it. Yeah,
And I can't imagine anybody's saying, you know, denying that those things
in the sky we can't identify. Yeah. Well, and that's what's great,
you know. I remember when Dan Ackroyd came out with his video talking
about UFOs, which is a great video. People, Oh gotta get that.
He's done a lot of research. And some ufologists are like, oh,
that's basic stuff. Well maybe, but uh you know it, yeah
exactly. To the public, it's probably not basic exactly. So he does
a great job getting out some information. He sounds like a seasoned upologist.
Yeah. Yeah, well, I think that was the reason the noble of
the speak. Yeah. So when he came out with that, they were
talking on CNN or they interviewed him, and they they asked him about it,
and I think they had Bruce mcabeyond and the lady was like and you
know, there were something like three or four sightings in the United States last
year, weren't they? And you know, and I think I'm pretty sure
it was Bruce mcavee. They had on and talked about, well, actually
there's a lot more and you can go to moufon dot com and see more.
And he didn't see how many, but you know, there are thousands.
I mean, we're getting thousands of reports. And I know when I
became that's the gator I was. I was surprised and delighted by the credibility
of some of these people. I went out to go investigate. Yeah.
Yeah, I have been too. I have been too. I've worked on
a number of cases where I was just really gratified to see but it was
something of substance, you know, and I was working on something that was
obviously real. You know, it's well, it's a privilege. It's a
privilege to able to work on these things. Yeah, you know, listen
to I don't have to. I'm going to have to sign off. Okay,
I've got to get up early tomorrow morning and decent things. But I
just want to tell everybody that this year's bash. I don't know what else
I mean it's going to be a really nice, nice festival. I think
we have a big lineup of speakers and lots of events. We have these
these orientation sessions I think are going to be a lot of fun. Mm
hm and uh, well, well, you know, like somebody said,
be here or be noble with Yeah, I can ask one last question real
quick. Sure you know a lot of investigators and actually we're out of time
anyway, but a lot of investigators talk about, you know, what percentage
of UFO's reports are actually unknowns rather than something saying that's identified. What's your
num. Well, I don't have I don't have hard data on that,
and over the years, I've gathered the impression that something on the order of
maybe three percent of cases are truly anomalous. And that's stupendous because because I
mean, even if let's say there were only a thousand fat of replies in
a given year, and many many more than that, right, but if
they're only three thoting a thousand sinding replies in a given years, that's thirty
real UFOs, exactly thirty really anomalous projects. Yeah, I heard its three
percent or whatever. That little percentage is that really knows life interesting. Yeah,
that's pretty much what Mitchiakaku has been saying lately. Yeah, well great,
thank you so much for being on the show. I can't wait.
Yea, in just a couple of days here, we'll have a lot of
fun. Oh yeah, yeah, it's it's coming and it's gonna be fun.
Yeah. And I'm sure it's hot out there. Huh, Holy moly.
So short, sir, I'm not going to be able. I'm not
going to be fancied next week. So wow, all right, yeah,
okay, well, thank you very much. Everybody. You can go check
out the website black Mesa oh yeah, black Mesa Press dot com, black
Mesa Press dot com and you can get his books and check it out and
come hear them talk in Roswell. So thank you, yeah, thank you.
Look forward to seeing it. So just to do the rundown real quick
on the other speakers that will be out there in Roswell for the listeners here.
Like we've talked about James Carrion, Director of MUFON, Travis Walton,
Don Burrows, We've just talked to Paula Harris. We'll be out there talking
about Colonel Corso. Like we just talked about Clifford Stone, who we just
talked about. Nick Pope. I think we covered everybody all I cover,
Chuck Zukowski, who I had on Roswell, researcher who will be talking with
his sister. That'll be Ziggelemeyer, and they're going to be doing our Roswell
one oh one coming the basics for our visitors who aren't up to speed on
all of that. Grant Cameron talking about presidents, Claude Swanson, a physicists
talking about equations that were downloaded by Stan Romaneck somehow, and Richard Dolan,
he's got a brand new book out calling both to cover up past, present
and future. I'm gonna be in Roswell next weekend and I'm gonna be so
busy. Unfortunately, I'm not gonna be able to do a show. I
apologize, ladies and gentlemen, but I'll be back in two weeks. And
I'm already gonna be up on the UFO and Paranormal Network in the next couple
of days, so they'll be playing some of them on my archives on there.
So the Australians are gonna be getting a dose a UFO Think Tank Radio.
I hope they like it anyway, You guys have a wonderful weekend.
Come say hi if you're in Roswell. I'm gonna be at to move on
talks and I'd love to say hi and meet some of you. But thanks
again. Talk to yous guys, Laters. H dav Il Matop with a
bad Day made Preciate with a daily that I have the mad Preciate with bad
day. The band who gave