WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.400 --> 00:00:04.400 The moment at which you are cancelation doesn't matter at all. Hollywood has first 2 00:00:04.400 --> 00:00:08.119 sworn and the clergy is then then it'll be safe or who knows that I 3 00:00:08.119 --> 00:00:12.119 can show them my special art. Yeah yeah, maybe then Christopher Ruffo will 4 00:00:12.119 --> 00:00:16.160 have won everything in the cultural wars will have been yeah. Right, But 5 00:00:16.239 --> 00:00:20.079 even that, even that would be too far right. So this is this 6 00:00:20.160 --> 00:00:23.320 is not going out. So in case anybody hears this, it's it's it's 7 00:00:23.399 --> 00:00:27.640 not awful or naughty stuff. It's just today it would be very socially unacceptable. 8 00:00:28.000 --> 00:00:31.960 It's it's American images from a specific time and place, very much so 9 00:00:32.240 --> 00:00:39.439 collected for reasons we can go into later. Ask not what your country can 10 00:00:39.479 --> 00:00:45.039 do for you, Ask what you can do for your country. Mister grbachaw 11 00:00:46.039 --> 00:00:51.280 tear down this wall. It's the Ricochet Bon guest with Rob Long and Stephen 12 00:00:51.280 --> 00:00:54.520 Aywards sitting for Peter Robinson again. I'm James Lilas. Today we talked to 13 00:00:54.600 --> 00:00:59.159 Ann Coulter, so let's have ourselves a podcast. I'm not supposed to be 14 00:00:59.240 --> 00:01:06.319 here tonight, not supposed to be here, and I'll tell you I stand 15 00:01:06.400 --> 00:01:15.040 before you in this arena only by the grace of Almighty God. A new 16 00:01:15.120 --> 00:01:19.840 ap Pole show. Sixty five percent of Democrats believe Biden should withdraw from the 17 00:01:19.920 --> 00:01:23.079 race, plus fifty eight percent of Democrats think Kamala Harris would make a good 18 00:01:23.159 --> 00:01:30.719 president. Welcome everybody, It's the Ricochet Podcast number seven hundred. I just 19 00:01:30.719 --> 00:01:34.159 figured that out in Roman numerals. In quested that we got to this point, 20 00:01:34.280 --> 00:01:38.120 and how do we get to this point? Why with the usual fine, 21 00:01:38.359 --> 00:01:42.040 sparkling conversation that you find at ricochet dot com every single day, brought 22 00:01:42.079 --> 00:01:45.239 to you here in podcast form. I'm James L. Alex in Minneapolis, 23 00:01:45.280 --> 00:01:48.920 Rob Long in New York, I presume, and Stephen Hayward sitting in for 24 00:01:49.040 --> 00:01:51.359 people. Wow, let's oh, yeah, we don't know what happened to 25 00:01:51.359 --> 00:01:55.239 be here. Peter, he's completely he's gone. He's not a runner, 26 00:01:55.280 --> 00:01:57.560 he's gone on a walk. He may be walking across Australia at this point 27 00:01:57.640 --> 00:02:02.560 towards the Ires Rock or is it Airs Rockrock? Okay, you wouldn't know, 28 00:02:02.560 --> 00:02:06.120 Stephen, being the world traveler that you are. Where do you happen 29 00:02:06.159 --> 00:02:09.319 to be today? Not that anybody cares, but yeah, I have been 30 00:02:09.319 --> 00:02:12.520 to the top of Airs Rock. By the way, what it's worth it 31 00:02:13.319 --> 00:02:15.800 some years ago. I am currently where I usually am, which is the 32 00:02:15.840 --> 00:02:20.680 foggy, cool central coast of California. There we go. We got the 33 00:02:20.719 --> 00:02:23.120 country of Paradise. We have the country cut well. To bring everybody up 34 00:02:23.120 --> 00:02:27.000 to speed in the news. On the Democratic side, Joe Biden has stepped 35 00:02:27.000 --> 00:02:29.599 down. Joe Biden is staying in Kamala. Harris is going to be the 36 00:02:30.199 --> 00:02:32.800 presidential nominee. It's going to be an open convention. On the Republican side, 37 00:02:32.840 --> 00:02:37.800 Donald Trump spoke too long. I know which side, frankly, I 38 00:02:37.879 --> 00:02:40.840 would like to be on if I was concerned about the party's health and how 39 00:02:42.000 --> 00:02:45.439 things are going. But it's almost difficult at this point to say one thing 40 00:02:45.520 --> 00:02:49.080 or the other, because by the time this thing hits the hits the podcast 41 00:02:49.159 --> 00:02:54.560 waves, things may have changed. Convention, though I'm sure all of you 42 00:02:54.719 --> 00:02:59.319 were riveted, I stopped actually paying attention to them when I stopped going to 43 00:02:59.360 --> 00:03:00.360 them. As a matter of fact, when I was going to them, 44 00:03:00.400 --> 00:03:04.960 I wasn't paying particular attention because it's just an awful lot of theater and it 45 00:03:05.000 --> 00:03:07.240 gets tiresome. Last night, it's always fun. The balloon drop, the 46 00:03:07.280 --> 00:03:12.879 hoopla, great fun. Everybody energized pours out goes to the bar, et 47 00:03:12.960 --> 00:03:17.479 cetera. But have you picked up anything so far vibe wise from your long 48 00:03:17.520 --> 00:03:22.960 distance observations of the conventions. I didn't. I haven't pick up anything vibe 49 00:03:23.000 --> 00:03:25.719 wise. I mean, I think it was a it was it was a 50 00:03:25.759 --> 00:03:30.400 bad speech. It started great and then it just went all over the place. 51 00:03:30.439 --> 00:03:34.680 And I I just it's proof once again that Trump will tease us with 52 00:03:34.759 --> 00:03:39.840 his discipline and then falls totally apart. But the convention itself was kind of 53 00:03:39.960 --> 00:03:43.719 mean. It was a good convention in general, and I'm also it's kind 54 00:03:43.759 --> 00:03:46.960 of I mean, I was just remembering that we didn't have conventions, really, 55 00:03:47.280 --> 00:03:53.520 we didn't have conventional conventions four years ago, and it was it felt 56 00:03:53.560 --> 00:03:59.360 like an old friend, you know. I mean, these conventions are always 57 00:03:59.439 --> 00:04:00.560 kind of fun. I mean for me anyway, I just kind of like 58 00:04:00.639 --> 00:04:02.560 him. I just like the idea of that, the goofiness of it, 59 00:04:03.639 --> 00:04:06.560 and I think this one was kind of on message and had I mean, 60 00:04:08.000 --> 00:04:12.120 I mean, I full disclosure that there are things that the Republican parties moving 61 00:04:12.159 --> 00:04:15.759 in a direction that's that it's not including me in that they're becoming a lot 62 00:04:15.800 --> 00:04:23.319 less economically conservative than I am so. But but to to to present a 63 00:04:23.360 --> 00:04:30.079 coherent worldview, uh, and a coherent economic view to the people is how 64 00:04:30.120 --> 00:04:31.040 you judge these things. And I think they did. They did a really 65 00:04:31.040 --> 00:04:33.000 good job on that, I really do. I think that you have to 66 00:04:33.000 --> 00:04:35.279 give them credit for it. The hardest thing in the world is to be 67 00:04:35.319 --> 00:04:40.160 clear, right and to tell people in simple terms, what you what you 68 00:04:40.199 --> 00:04:44.680 stand for, what you're going to do, And and everybody did that except 69 00:04:44.680 --> 00:04:46.519 Trump. But but he even he did it for the first you know, 70 00:04:46.959 --> 00:04:50.160 the first two hours of his speech. The last three hours he meandered. 71 00:04:51.720 --> 00:04:55.040 So I mean, in general, I mean, it's it's it's a I 72 00:04:55.079 --> 00:04:57.600 mean, I listen, if you woke up this morning and you were in 73 00:04:57.600 --> 00:05:01.079 the r NC, you'd be pretty pretty please yourself. Yeah. Yeah. 74 00:05:01.160 --> 00:05:05.720 I have lots of observations. Two quick ones. One is everyone knows the 75 00:05:05.720 --> 00:05:10.279 story of the Gettysburg address. Lincoln speaks for two hundred and seventy two words, 76 00:05:10.480 --> 00:05:15.120 and Edward Everett spoke for two hours, and Trump decided to be Edward 77 00:05:15.120 --> 00:05:16.920 Everett. When the rest of the convention was a little closer to the Gettysburg 78 00:05:16.920 --> 00:05:19.399 ad press right, it was sort of moving and emotional and very effective. 79 00:05:20.000 --> 00:05:24.480 The other thing is I'd love to see what the ratings are for this convention. 80 00:05:24.519 --> 00:05:26.720 I don't know if we still do ratings of the conventional or not, 81 00:05:26.920 --> 00:05:30.279 Rob you would know. But well, the reason I say that is I 82 00:05:30.279 --> 00:05:33.279 think there was a lot of a lot more interest in what was going to 83 00:05:33.319 --> 00:05:39.319 happen at this convention because of the events of Saturday last Yeah, and in 84 00:05:39.360 --> 00:05:44.319 one parallel between twenty sixteen and now. And also another assassination attempt is you 85 00:05:44.319 --> 00:05:46.319 know, I was in Washington as a young kid out of college in March 86 00:05:46.360 --> 00:05:49.800 thirty, nineteen eighty one, and you know, watching all that very closely. 87 00:05:49.959 --> 00:05:56.319 And one of the many effects of Reagan surviving so bravely that assassination attempt 88 00:05:56.639 --> 00:06:00.360 is that the wavering Republicans who were unenthusiastic about his plan fell in line behind 89 00:06:00.439 --> 00:06:03.879 him instantly. Yeah, and he unified the party. People Now forget that, 90 00:06:03.959 --> 00:06:06.120 you know, Bob Dole, Pete Damenijie. A lot of the old 91 00:06:06.560 --> 00:06:12.319 modern liberal Republicans did not really like Reaganomics, but and there was a lot 92 00:06:12.319 --> 00:06:15.000 of doubt that he could carry his own party all the way to the end, 93 00:06:15.040 --> 00:06:18.040 and that un the fight. Everybody behind Reagan. Likewise, today, 94 00:06:18.519 --> 00:06:23.279 the people who have doubts about Trump have been unified behind him, and so 95 00:06:23.439 --> 00:06:27.959 you had a convention that was much more unified and together an enthusiastic than the 96 00:06:27.959 --> 00:06:31.800 one in twenty sixteen, when large parts of the party only grudually accepted his 97 00:06:31.879 --> 00:06:34.800 nomination. Right, yeah, yeah. And also I think, I mean, 98 00:06:34.839 --> 00:06:38.120 the Republican Party is kind of used to him. I think the audience 99 00:06:38.120 --> 00:06:43.399 in general's used to him. So the other issue here is that it didn't 100 00:06:43.399 --> 00:06:47.319 seem like amateur hour the way it has in Trump world since twenty sixteen. 101 00:06:47.360 --> 00:06:49.560 It didn't seem like, oh my god, the Dalisters are a charge, 102 00:06:49.560 --> 00:06:54.120 this thing's a mess. It felt like somebody had really thought about, Okay, 103 00:06:54.120 --> 00:06:56.959 what's the message going to make the American people with that all had a 104 00:06:57.000 --> 00:07:00.240 lot of it had to be rethought after Saturday, and I think a good 105 00:07:00.279 --> 00:07:03.680 job there. I you know, I'm just I'm going to be the skunk 106 00:07:03.680 --> 00:07:08.439 at the garden party. Unfortunately for me, it seems a little a little 107 00:07:08.480 --> 00:07:12.079 too frankly, too left me for me. I mean, the the economic 108 00:07:12.160 --> 00:07:17.160 message to me is liberal. It's big government, and I'm not crazy about 109 00:07:17.160 --> 00:07:20.920 that. But I think the mood of the people. It might reflect the 110 00:07:20.920 --> 00:07:24.839 mood of the people. I'm perfectly willing to be out of step with the 111 00:07:24.839 --> 00:07:27.600 American people. I often amd and I think I might be here. Well, 112 00:07:27.639 --> 00:07:30.199 there's one significant exception to that, Robin the speech last night, and 113 00:07:30.360 --> 00:07:33.399 it might have been the part you slept through or rolling your eyes. But 114 00:07:33.680 --> 00:07:38.319 remember Trump made a big point of saying, we're going to do tax cuts 115 00:07:38.720 --> 00:07:42.480 and because we need to have faster growth, that's the only way we can 116 00:07:42.720 --> 00:07:46.360 reduce our deficit and reduce the national debt. That is old school Reaganomics, 117 00:07:46.360 --> 00:07:51.199 supply side economics, that parts all the sort of map cons say Reaganomics and 118 00:07:51.240 --> 00:07:55.560 the Reagan era is dead. Well, that was a significant exception to that. 119 00:07:56.399 --> 00:08:01.040 Yeah, I guess I hear you there. I found that not full 120 00:08:01.079 --> 00:08:05.319 throated enough for me because because it didn't come it doesn't it doesn't come with 121 00:08:05.360 --> 00:08:07.879 it. And actually, look, I mean, the man who gave that 122 00:08:07.959 --> 00:08:16.839 speech is uh is at least cheap. He shares responsibility with the president president 123 00:08:16.160 --> 00:08:22.120 of wrecking the country's finances, I mean just single handedly wrecking them. And 124 00:08:22.199 --> 00:08:26.439 then but it wasn't from tax cuts. It wasn't from tax cuts. Well, 125 00:08:26.480 --> 00:08:28.879 no, it never is. It was from spending. But the left 126 00:08:28.920 --> 00:08:33.240 is always going to say that what wrecks the American economy is tax cuts because 127 00:08:33.240 --> 00:08:35.080 it means that the billionaires have lots of money which they go into their golden 128 00:08:35.159 --> 00:08:39.879 rooms and burn and that right, But he's there there against billionaires too. 129 00:08:39.159 --> 00:08:43.559 That that the populist message from the Republican Party is and we're going to protect 130 00:08:43.639 --> 00:08:46.039 rich people, and we think that you are the wealth that you've created, 131 00:08:46.080 --> 00:08:48.679 and the value you've created over time is yours. It's we're going to get 132 00:08:48.679 --> 00:08:54.039 the fat cats too. That's the message of populism. So it's not exactly 133 00:08:54.080 --> 00:08:58.799 that. I mean, I'm clinging to Steve's little golden crumbs of Reaganism because 134 00:08:58.799 --> 00:09:03.399 I'm that I have to, but I would I would like a more full 135 00:09:03.399 --> 00:09:07.120 throat of Reganism, and you can't. There is no way I agree with 136 00:09:07.200 --> 00:09:11.720 tax cuts as a stimulus. I think that's true. And in general, 137 00:09:11.759 --> 00:09:15.039 I think starving the beast is a good idea, although the beast never seems 138 00:09:15.080 --> 00:09:18.080 to be starved. And if you're if you are chief, one of your 139 00:09:18.159 --> 00:09:20.720 chief platforms is I'm never going to touch in titlements. We now have two 140 00:09:20.720 --> 00:09:24.639 presidential candidates, both of whom are living in cloud cuckoo Land. There is 141 00:09:24.799 --> 00:09:30.639 only one way, especially we're talking about rebuilding the the the defense. Like 142 00:09:30.840 --> 00:09:33.879 I'm in favor of strong defense too, I would like the I would like 143 00:09:33.919 --> 00:09:37.120 a presidential candidate, either one to tell me why we need one, especially 144 00:09:37.200 --> 00:09:45.279 if one party is resolutely turning to an isolationist position. Why do we need 145 00:09:45.320 --> 00:09:50.279 this big army if we are going to the isolationist who are we fighting? 146 00:09:50.200 --> 00:09:52.559 Well, you have two points there. One when it comes to the facts. 147 00:09:54.120 --> 00:09:56.960 I don't ever see the Republican Party going after billionaires for the sake of 148 00:09:56.960 --> 00:09:58.759 billionaires. We hate these guys because they have an awful lot of money, 149 00:09:58.759 --> 00:10:03.720 and that's unfair, is a Bernie Sanders line. If they hate the fat 150 00:10:03.759 --> 00:10:07.960 cats and the elites, it's because of something else other than their money. 151 00:10:07.039 --> 00:10:11.720 It's their influence, it's their control supposed to control. It's it's it's that, 152 00:10:11.240 --> 00:10:16.000 I mean, it's it. They're not mad at billionaires because billionaires have 153 00:10:16.159 --> 00:10:18.720 not all the money. They're mad at them because they say that we all 154 00:10:18.720 --> 00:10:22.399 have to put on masks and they buy up the farmland and you know, 155 00:10:22.440 --> 00:10:24.039 and tell us we have to live in fifteen minute cities. That that that 156 00:10:24.159 --> 00:10:28.919 stuff. So I mean think I think that's different. And when it comes 157 00:10:28.960 --> 00:10:31.720 to the military thing, well, you know, you can say best defense 158 00:10:31.799 --> 00:10:33.919 is a strong offense. And if we just sit here behind our shores and 159 00:10:35.559 --> 00:10:37.399 continue, I mean, part of one of the reasons we need a big 160 00:10:37.399 --> 00:10:41.799 military is to keep the sea lanes open. That's not an isolationist thing. 161 00:10:41.360 --> 00:10:46.519 Being able to serve power anywhere, to ensure the free flow of oil and 162 00:10:46.559 --> 00:10:50.120 goods is not isolationism. I mean, it's just Oh no, that's a 163 00:10:50.159 --> 00:10:52.840 very good point. I would like to hear that argument. That's a good 164 00:10:52.879 --> 00:10:54.200 argument. I'd like to hear it. Well, Rob, I think we're 165 00:10:54.200 --> 00:10:56.639 coming to the you know, you and I I'm older than you, but 166 00:10:56.679 --> 00:11:01.080 you know we've spent our entire life wanting to hear specific things being said by 167 00:11:01.080 --> 00:11:03.279 our leader. No. No, But here's what I mean is if you're 168 00:11:03.480 --> 00:11:07.200 if you're arguing for a strong defense, and you have a kind of a 169 00:11:07.279 --> 00:11:13.000 robust uh position about projecting American power and America's role as a global hedgemon, 170 00:11:13.080 --> 00:11:16.039 and you think America should stay the strongest country in the world. I mean, 171 00:11:16.159 --> 00:11:18.200 which, by the way, position I kind of agree with. But 172 00:11:18.240 --> 00:11:20.120 it's an old school. It's an old school position. It is not the 173 00:11:20.120 --> 00:11:24.960 position of the Republican Party. It is not the position of the vice presidential 174 00:11:24.000 --> 00:11:28.919 nominee for the Republican Party. It is just simply not. They do not 175 00:11:28.080 --> 00:11:31.519 want us in they that's they're the ones who invented the term forever wars. 176 00:11:31.840 --> 00:11:35.440 They don't want us. They don't they didn't want I mean, I agree 177 00:11:35.440 --> 00:11:37.879 with him about Iraq. We should have been interacted. It was a gigantic 178 00:11:37.919 --> 00:11:41.840 failure. But the idea that we're gonna we're on the one side of our 179 00:11:41.840 --> 00:11:43.679 mouth, We're going to talk about how we need to like, we need 180 00:11:43.720 --> 00:11:46.080 to pair back o our commitments to the world, and we can't be given 181 00:11:46.120 --> 00:11:50.039 the Ukraine money and we can't be doing all us that's all that. Those 182 00:11:50.080 --> 00:11:56.080 all could coherent world points, but they don't. They they directly contradictorily. 183 00:11:56.200 --> 00:12:00.480 They don't complement the idea of a large, robust military. I mean, 184 00:12:00.679 --> 00:12:07.480 if the Chinese invade Taiwan, why is it in our interests to defend Taiwan? 185 00:12:09.320 --> 00:12:11.080 I mean, all the people saying we shouldn't be in Ukraine, I 186 00:12:11.120 --> 00:12:18.799 agree, But what's the what's so great about Taiwan? Yips semiconductors. Okay, 187 00:12:18.840 --> 00:12:20.600 yeah, but the chips we got to be you have to build them 188 00:12:20.600 --> 00:12:24.200 here, building them here. And I agree, we're in the middle of 189 00:12:24.240 --> 00:12:26.039 an offshore you know, we're drawing back from China in many ways, we're 190 00:12:26.039 --> 00:12:30.639 rea shoring, as they say we're you know, there have been moves in 191 00:12:30.639 --> 00:12:33.960 that direction, but we're not there yet. And I mean, I get 192 00:12:33.960 --> 00:12:35.799 what you're saying, Rob, but I want to go. You just said 193 00:12:35.840 --> 00:12:39.039 that you agree with the people who don't believe that we should be sending money 194 00:12:39.039 --> 00:12:45.360 to sending money in material or to Ukraine, or you're saying you understand that 195 00:12:45.399 --> 00:12:48.799 position. I understand that. I understand the isolation's argument. It's a good 196 00:12:48.840 --> 00:12:50.639 it's a good argument. I don't agree with it, but I understand it. 197 00:12:50.639 --> 00:12:54.320 It's an ancient it's an old American argument. It's sewn into the American 198 00:12:54.360 --> 00:12:58.720 flag. It's practically it's in our DNA, and I totally get it. 199 00:12:58.759 --> 00:13:05.679 And we have for the past century done the opposite. He raised a lot 200 00:13:05.679 --> 00:13:09.679 of questions that unfortunately require extensive discussion, which we have time for. Well, 201 00:13:11.279 --> 00:13:16.840 I'm just mentioned a couple of observations, though one is neither Trump nor 202 00:13:16.960 --> 00:13:20.480 Vance mentioned the word Ukraine. What Trump did say last night and his speech 203 00:13:20.600 --> 00:13:24.399 was if we don't if our hostages are not out of Gaza. I remember 204 00:13:24.399 --> 00:13:26.519 there's what eight or ten or twelve Americans there. If our hostages are not 205 00:13:26.600 --> 00:13:30.200 out by the time might take office, they're essentially it's gonna be hell to 206 00:13:30.200 --> 00:13:31.960 pay for gods. That's what he said there. He made a very specific 207 00:13:33.000 --> 00:13:35.840 point. The larger one is, uh, yeah, we want to. 208 00:13:35.919 --> 00:13:39.639 I think the old school would be. So the point about Ukraine is they're 209 00:13:39.720 --> 00:13:45.200 preserving you might say, strategic flexibility. Uh. Trump has been very silent 210 00:13:45.240 --> 00:13:50.720 about Ukraine. There's disciple and there's there's there's defects and pluses to that. 211 00:13:50.200 --> 00:13:54.720 Uh. The point about having a large, powerful military is is no one's 212 00:13:54.759 --> 00:13:58.440 going to mess with you. That's old school, right, and I think 213 00:13:58.519 --> 00:14:01.240 that's true. You know, part of Ronald Reagan's strategy was We're going to 214 00:14:01.279 --> 00:14:05.639 bankrupt the Soviet Union by out building them. It cost a lot, but 215 00:14:05.720 --> 00:14:09.759 it worked. But the problem with China is I'm not sure we can outbuild 216 00:14:09.759 --> 00:14:13.120 them. They're outbuilding us, and so this is a serious problem to figure 217 00:14:13.159 --> 00:14:16.559 out. Uh, yes, I agree, I think that's true. I 218 00:14:16.600 --> 00:14:22.159 guess what I would just say on on the the what America's position is is 219 00:14:22.159 --> 00:14:24.320 that we're playing where the Republicans seem to be playing a lot with fire, 220 00:14:26.000 --> 00:14:30.919 and they're making a lot of arguments for things that are not traditionally conservative, 221 00:14:30.960 --> 00:14:35.039 or at least not by any definition conservative, like tariffs. And once you 222 00:14:35.080 --> 00:14:39.039 make that argument, it's hard to It's just it's just it's hard to back 223 00:14:39.279 --> 00:14:41.440 out of it, because they're they're popular. People like tariffs, even though 224 00:14:41.879 --> 00:14:48.000 they're dumb and they're inflationary and they hurt the economy, and these are I 225 00:14:48.080 --> 00:14:56.960 just I am, I'm I'm slowly coming to the belated understanding that that the 226 00:14:58.080 --> 00:15:03.000 Republicans are no longer the grown ups in the room, hampered and saddled by 227 00:15:03.080 --> 00:15:07.720 their good sense. A party that features Kid Rock and Hulk are not a 228 00:15:07.759 --> 00:15:11.360 serious party. Oh I like that part. I'm like, I'm in favor 229 00:15:11.440 --> 00:15:13.320 of that. I just mean it used to be that, you know, 230 00:15:13.600 --> 00:15:16.799 we had to make not we I'm not a republic Republicans had to make these 231 00:15:18.000 --> 00:15:24.240 tough, unpopular, difficult to make arguments about taxes and why though taxes are 232 00:15:24.279 --> 00:15:28.679 better? And regulation and what and and federalism and all sorts of stuff and 233 00:15:30.240 --> 00:15:33.320 and why tariffs are like sound good, but they're they're dumb, uh, 234 00:15:33.360 --> 00:15:37.639 and we just don't do that anymore. And maybe that that's a that's a 235 00:15:37.720 --> 00:15:39.000 that's a shift, and that's I guess a shift in the population. That's 236 00:15:39.039 --> 00:15:43.039 fine too. Shift probably in generational politics, that's that's fine too. But 237 00:15:43.080 --> 00:15:46.159 I just I yearned for I yron. I just see I yearn. That's 238 00:15:46.159 --> 00:15:48.320 all. Just gonna leave it at that. I yearn. I yron too. 239 00:15:48.399 --> 00:15:52.840 I do, I absolutely do yearn. But the problem was perhaps in 240 00:15:52.879 --> 00:15:56.200 the mind of the voters, and I'm not contradicting anything you said here, 241 00:15:56.279 --> 00:16:00.519 that those arguments were made tepidly and came along with a series of things that 242 00:16:00.559 --> 00:16:03.720 seemed to be not so much helping the American people as it did the Chamber 243 00:16:03.759 --> 00:16:06.159 of Commerce. That's how it was. The argument that's made is that at 244 00:16:06.159 --> 00:16:08.080 the same time that they would talk about lower regulations and lower taxes and the 245 00:16:08.120 --> 00:16:11.960 rest of it in an abstract sense that really didn't click with an awful lot 246 00:16:11.960 --> 00:16:15.799 of people, they would be talking about immigration and lots of it, so 247 00:16:15.840 --> 00:16:18.000 we can get the wages down, so we can get more cheap workers, 248 00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:22.639 et cetera. And eventually I mean what began with Reagan, I think sort 249 00:16:22.679 --> 00:16:29.240 of just became a sclerotic series of arguments that were made by people that I 250 00:16:29.759 --> 00:16:34.919 never really explained and just seemed designed to prop up one Romney after the other. 251 00:16:36.080 --> 00:16:38.159 And mind you, I think Mitt Romney would have been ten times better 252 00:16:38.200 --> 00:16:41.519 than Obama. And I think he's a decent man, even though a lot 253 00:16:41.519 --> 00:16:44.759 of the stuff that he says they disagree with. But it just seemed to 254 00:16:44.799 --> 00:16:51.000 be an institutional wrote recitation that didn't really address the dynamics that were going on 255 00:16:51.039 --> 00:16:52.879 in the country. Now, when you talk about tariffs, yeah, I 256 00:16:52.879 --> 00:16:56.679 hate them to absolutely do. But on the other hand, I think if 257 00:16:57.200 --> 00:17:00.559 you said to people, look, we're going to put tariffs on China that 258 00:17:00.639 --> 00:17:07.559 are so significant that those three dollars cheap plastic shoes from Timu are going to 259 00:17:07.599 --> 00:17:11.440 be four bucks and we're gonna, you know, and we're gonna make sure 260 00:17:11.440 --> 00:17:14.960 that American shoes can be made for five and they're going to be better, 261 00:17:15.720 --> 00:17:18.000 it's hard to argue with that. Ye, I mean, it's not how 262 00:17:18.039 --> 00:17:18.759 it well. I like the first part of it. If if you want 263 00:17:18.799 --> 00:17:21.720 to have a trade where the first part of it makes sense, the second 264 00:17:21.720 --> 00:17:22.720 part of it, doesn't the idea that, Okay, we're going to put 265 00:17:22.720 --> 00:17:27.599 tariffs on the just cheap ot Chinese shoes and we're going to help Americans make 266 00:17:27.680 --> 00:17:30.279 cheap, cheap o shoes. Like, why are we helping people do that? 267 00:17:30.400 --> 00:17:33.640 But I understand, I mean, we've just been joined. I understand 268 00:17:33.680 --> 00:17:37.119 the one part of it. But I guess I'm just I'm just still a 269 00:17:37.160 --> 00:17:41.759 paleo economic conservative. I still don't like it when the federal government, which 270 00:17:41.880 --> 00:17:47.960 in my lifetime has often been controlled entirely by liberal progressives, will be in 271 00:17:48.000 --> 00:17:52.400 the White House in an executive branch. Again, I guarantee you. The 272 00:17:52.440 --> 00:17:56.720 idea that we're going to see to that administrative branch all sorts of dumb things. 273 00:17:57.200 --> 00:18:00.759 To me is I don't know, makes me a little nervous. I'm 274 00:18:00.799 --> 00:18:07.160 too old. I remember the Obama administration. So that's my problem. I 275 00:18:07.200 --> 00:18:11.440 agree. I mean, we've been wandering in the wilderness saying these things for 276 00:18:11.480 --> 00:18:14.559 an awful long time, and we will continue and we will continue to do 277 00:18:14.680 --> 00:18:19.240 so because you know, if nothing else, as a reminder of the basic 278 00:18:19.440 --> 00:18:25.960 bedrock ideas that got us through the eighties, and I have not been eliminated 279 00:18:26.039 --> 00:18:29.200 or contradicted by time, experience, or changes. I mean, there are 280 00:18:29.200 --> 00:18:32.960 some things that abide, there are some things that are true. So yes, 281 00:18:33.240 --> 00:18:36.559 let's keep saying them. And the other hand one of those things. 282 00:18:36.720 --> 00:18:38.519 And if the team Moushugars go up to four bucks, I'm not exactly going 283 00:18:38.559 --> 00:18:44.160 to be crying. Welcome back to and Culture author, host of the podcast 284 00:18:44.240 --> 00:18:48.880 Unsafe with a culture on some one particular Rocoschet networker. Yes, latest books 285 00:18:48.880 --> 00:18:52.480 are in Trump We Trust e pluribus awesome and resistance is futile. How the 286 00:18:52.559 --> 00:18:59.920 Trump hating left last? It's collective mind And welcome back. Thank you real 287 00:19:00.240 --> 00:19:03.759 enjoyed these four our acceptance speech last night. How about you, guys, 288 00:19:04.039 --> 00:19:11.119 Well we clocked the two and a half, but in my ancient Senessen state, 289 00:19:11.160 --> 00:19:12.200 I may have dropped out before we get to the RNC, though, 290 00:19:12.279 --> 00:19:17.279 your thoughts on the aboard of attempt, the assassination attempt which really to change 291 00:19:17.319 --> 00:19:21.960 the complexion of this of this election. Two things. One is I don't 292 00:19:21.960 --> 00:19:26.720 think every single speaker at the RNC needed to describe it to us, and 293 00:19:27.000 --> 00:19:33.119 every single one. I'm in a house of people and I got them all 294 00:19:33.160 --> 00:19:37.200 groaning when they got to and then the shot whizz passed his ear and he 295 00:19:37.279 --> 00:19:41.559 pumped his fist. Yes, and he and accept. It goes on for 296 00:19:41.599 --> 00:19:45.440 twenty minutes this description, and he said, fight, fight, This is 297 00:19:45.440 --> 00:19:51.000 the most watched video probably certainly in the last fifty years. There is no 298 00:19:51.039 --> 00:19:55.720 one in that audience who didn't see it. Please please stop describing it. 299 00:19:55.839 --> 00:19:59.599 That's point one point two. Everyone seemed to think, I've I've a bunch 300 00:19:59.640 --> 00:20:03.880 of bets. Unfortunately, the one with James Higgins is only for a nickel, 301 00:20:03.000 --> 00:20:07.359 the Culter family biggest bet, but many nickel bets in one stake bet 302 00:20:07.359 --> 00:20:12.880 that the nominee would not be Biden, which I concluded immediately after reading the 303 00:20:14.000 --> 00:20:18.160 New York Times at editorial in one of my in one of my Ricochet Boba 304 00:20:18.240 --> 00:20:22.880 gas, I've described, and I think I'm right about this, that whether 305 00:20:22.920 --> 00:20:26.839 Biden stays or goes is basically a fight between two groups within the Democratic Party, 306 00:20:26.039 --> 00:20:32.079 the Blacks and the Jews. And I'm putting my money on the Jews. 307 00:20:30.960 --> 00:20:36.640 After Trump got took it in the ear, all my bets started saying, 308 00:20:36.680 --> 00:20:38.000 Okay, are you ready to buy me a mistake dinner yet? And 309 00:20:38.000 --> 00:20:41.119 I said, hang on, and now we see it looks like, I 310 00:20:41.119 --> 00:20:45.519 mean, who knows, it can go back and forth. I'm stronger belief 311 00:20:45.599 --> 00:20:49.880 than usual that they're going to make Biden drop out, so I'm going to 312 00:20:49.920 --> 00:20:53.519 win my bets. Yay. I think people got a little too enthusiastic in 313 00:20:53.559 --> 00:20:59.519 other words about that shooting. I mean just saying, Okay, Trump has 314 00:20:59.559 --> 00:21:03.640 won, it's over. His speech was good, although weird and rambling. 315 00:21:03.759 --> 00:21:08.160 Last night, a lot of the convention was incredibly weird. But by and 316 00:21:08.279 --> 00:21:11.200 large I can see why a lot of Republicans are thinking, right now, 317 00:21:11.880 --> 00:21:15.279 it's over. He's going to win. A lot of people set out out 318 00:21:15.319 --> 00:21:18.240 of the shooting. A lot of Democrats, I know, said okay, 319 00:21:18.240 --> 00:21:22.680 that's it. I'm voting for Trump. But four months is a long way 320 00:21:22.839 --> 00:21:26.920 away. So I'm not making any bets on the general election. And do 321 00:21:26.960 --> 00:21:30.680 we have any bets together? We we we have had we bet together. 322 00:21:30.799 --> 00:21:33.200 I don't know whether we're on the same side of a bet as anybody. 323 00:21:36.400 --> 00:21:37.880 I can't remember. You know, this is why you got to write these 324 00:21:37.920 --> 00:21:41.440 things down. No, by and large, it's usually you and me against 325 00:21:41.440 --> 00:21:48.640 the rest of the Hampton's which is which is, but only in this only 326 00:21:48.680 --> 00:21:53.359 on these only on every four years because the eight years all Anne does is 327 00:21:53.440 --> 00:21:56.920 like attacked me. Yes, because I'm a true buchananight, And if I 328 00:21:56.920 --> 00:22:03.279 could put in a good word for Romney, I think he gets a bad 329 00:22:03.440 --> 00:22:07.599 rap as being more of an establishment Republican than he was. The reason I 330 00:22:07.680 --> 00:22:11.440 supported him because he looks like it. He looks like mister wall Street, 331 00:22:11.480 --> 00:22:14.920 and I think that probably didn't play well with the white working class. He 332 00:22:14.920 --> 00:22:21.440 doesn't talk like Trump. But the reason I supported him and supported him ferociously 333 00:22:21.839 --> 00:22:26.279 in twenty twelve, was he had the toughest position on immigration of any Republican 334 00:22:26.680 --> 00:22:30.759 in my lifetime. Remember he was mister it'll be self deportation. We simply 335 00:22:30.160 --> 00:22:33.960 we don't have to round him up. They round him up to get him 336 00:22:33.000 --> 00:22:34.720 here. We don't have to round him up to get him. And we're 337 00:22:34.759 --> 00:22:38.640 just going to enforce the immigration law to prevent employers from hiring them. And 338 00:22:38.640 --> 00:22:42.240 they'll go back the same way they came. And you will recall, perhaps 339 00:22:42.279 --> 00:22:48.839 you will not Rupert Murdoch, one of the immigrants who absolutely does not care 340 00:22:48.880 --> 00:22:52.559 about the welfare of the average American. A few weeks before the nomination, 341 00:22:53.839 --> 00:22:59.519 had a sit down meeting with Mitt Romney, this is like the centerpiece of 342 00:22:59.559 --> 00:23:02.440 his game. It would be like telling Trump to drop build the wall, 343 00:23:02.799 --> 00:23:06.240 and he harangues Romney and says, you got to drop this self deportation, 344 00:23:07.559 --> 00:23:11.000 and Romney just laughed and said, no, I can't. So he stood 345 00:23:11.039 --> 00:23:15.400 by one being harangued by rupert mock Murdoch. Whereas you know, Trump capitulates 346 00:23:15.400 --> 00:23:21.279 in a second no matter who's talking to him, including Jared Kushner. So 347 00:23:21.359 --> 00:23:27.119 I think Romney looks like establishment weenie rhino Republican like my friend Rob Long here. 348 00:23:27.319 --> 00:23:33.119 But he really was not okay? Was it weird when they booed Mitch 349 00:23:33.200 --> 00:23:41.000 McConnell. I mean, you've been a pretty outspoken Mitch McConnell defender. I 350 00:23:41.240 --> 00:23:45.400 was when he was running and they were primarying him. I wrote about this 351 00:23:45.920 --> 00:23:51.599 in I think It's I think it's never trust a liberal over three where I 352 00:23:51.599 --> 00:23:53.720 think that's the one where I attacked the Tea Partiers. I mean, I 353 00:23:53.759 --> 00:23:57.519 loved the original grass roots Tea Partiers, but then you had all these quote 354 00:23:57.799 --> 00:24:03.200 Tea Party candidates and as I counted it, we had lost like five Senate 355 00:24:03.279 --> 00:24:10.960 seats because of Tea partiers primary Republicans who may not be my cup of tea. 356 00:24:11.240 --> 00:24:14.640 But they have an R after their name. And so I was ferociously 357 00:24:14.720 --> 00:24:18.319 defending Mitch McConnell. I think that was that would have been twenty ten, 358 00:24:19.519 --> 00:24:23.119 that was the Big ten, or maybe it was twenty twelve and he had 359 00:24:25.440 --> 00:24:26.839 that guy forget his name, but anyway, he had a Tea Party candidate 360 00:24:26.920 --> 00:24:30.400 running against him. And I'm saying, you know, Kentucky isn't a red 361 00:24:30.559 --> 00:24:33.240 state. We could lose the seat. No, it didn't happen, but 362 00:24:33.279 --> 00:24:40.640 you know, Christine o'donnelld Todd Aiken, Richard Murdoch, my roodeek is no, 363 00:24:40.400 --> 00:24:44.759 no, but never primary a Republican, no matter how bad the Republican 364 00:24:44.880 --> 00:24:48.119 is, at least until you have a massive overwhelming majority in the House of 365 00:24:48.119 --> 00:24:55.240 the Senate. That's angel Yeah. And it's Steve Hayward out in California. 366 00:24:55.279 --> 00:25:00.279 And you know, as James mentioned among your books, was in trumply Us 367 00:25:00.319 --> 00:25:04.000 from twenty sixteen and then and then you guys had you and Trump had a 368 00:25:04.039 --> 00:25:08.519 really bad breakup. I mean it was Ben affleck j Low bad. But 369 00:25:10.720 --> 00:25:14.319 I note that benefits back together. At least that's what the tabloids say. 370 00:25:14.519 --> 00:25:18.640 So my question for you is is there anything a second Trump term could do 371 00:25:18.279 --> 00:25:23.359 that would revive an old trumpter because would the wall satisfy you or you need 372 00:25:23.400 --> 00:25:30.039 to buy there is I think I've been very clear on this point. Yes, 373 00:25:30.200 --> 00:25:36.799 I want a wall. Okay, I'll tell you the story. I'll 374 00:25:36.799 --> 00:25:41.599 see a story behind this. Uh. We were twenty twenty. We were 375 00:25:41.640 --> 00:25:44.680 at a I think probably at that's the very same house you're in right now. 376 00:25:44.680 --> 00:25:47.359 We're at a dinner party. A lot of Republicans there, and they 377 00:25:47.359 --> 00:25:49.640 were like, they're trying to bring Ann back into the fold and these are 378 00:25:49.680 --> 00:25:53.680 these are establishment Republicans, but they're big Trumpers. And what I'm saying, 379 00:25:53.720 --> 00:25:56.440 and listen, I talk to the White House all the time. You know 380 00:25:56.680 --> 00:26:00.559 one of those guys who's like, I mean, I know people and what 381 00:26:00.599 --> 00:26:03.160 could I I'd like to tell them, what is it what they could do 382 00:26:03.240 --> 00:26:08.680 for you that would bring you back to the fold. And Anne said build 383 00:26:08.720 --> 00:26:12.039 a wall. I want a wall. And one of the wives said, 384 00:26:12.039 --> 00:26:15.000 oh, Anne, I don't think the wall was that big a deal. 385 00:26:17.960 --> 00:26:22.119 It's like, are you crazy? Like so that's that's the backstory to that 386 00:26:22.359 --> 00:26:23.319 to build a wall. But it's true, like if he you know that 387 00:26:23.799 --> 00:26:26.519 twenty twenty would have been a very different election had he been able to say 388 00:26:26.559 --> 00:26:30.720 I built a wall. By the way, Trump Trump missed a major opportunity 389 00:26:30.799 --> 00:26:32.960 last night. I think he could still do it, which is he says, 390 00:26:33.039 --> 00:26:34.759 let's want to get rid of all this green energy nonsense in these windmills. 391 00:26:34.960 --> 00:26:37.440 You know right now, when those things were out, we bury all 392 00:26:37.440 --> 00:26:41.920 those blades. How about sticking them in the ground at the border and using 393 00:26:41.960 --> 00:26:45.160 all those stupid blades and windmills for war construction. Wow, I think I 394 00:26:45.160 --> 00:26:49.359 think people love that idea, right, A wall that consists entirely of spinning 395 00:26:49.440 --> 00:26:53.680 mincing blades. Yes, we probably you know. And interesting, we've been 396 00:26:53.680 --> 00:26:57.920 on this podcast for thirty minutes. You've been with us for however many JD 397 00:26:59.000 --> 00:27:03.880 vans hasn't come up. One is that because we're too enthusiastic and bound up 398 00:27:03.880 --> 00:27:08.799 in the Trump mystique, or is it because it isn't that important? Tell 399 00:27:08.880 --> 00:27:15.440 us what you think about the guy. Yep, she froze. Yeah, 400 00:27:15.480 --> 00:27:21.759 she's frozen up. So we'll have to improvise, ladies and gentlemen for a 401 00:27:21.799 --> 00:27:26.559 moment there. You may actually have thought that Ann Culture did not immediately respond 402 00:27:26.599 --> 00:27:32.880 to the question with a you know, with a delightful series of charming observations 403 00:27:32.920 --> 00:27:37.240 and outrageous assertions. But no, she froze. We lost her, so 404 00:27:37.279 --> 00:27:38.880 we're gonna have to get her back here in a second and in the meantime, 405 00:27:40.000 --> 00:27:44.920 since it's just us, what do you think, guys, I am 406 00:27:44.960 --> 00:27:48.079 intrigued by the fact that it's been a long time since we've had a heep 407 00:27:48.119 --> 00:27:51.599 with a beard. Oh right, one hundred years, I think, yeah, 408 00:27:51.799 --> 00:27:55.720 yeah, yeah, well by the way that beard grew, he was 409 00:27:55.720 --> 00:28:00.440 clean shaven at the beginning of Trump's acceptance speech last night the night. Yeah, 410 00:28:00.519 --> 00:28:03.640 yeah, at the end of the game the Civil War general. Right, 411 00:28:06.200 --> 00:28:08.440 he's a very interesting character. Oh, we got back. We've got 412 00:28:08.440 --> 00:28:12.680 a little land back. We're hearing her back from the other side of the 413 00:28:12.759 --> 00:28:18.759 multiverse. Yeah, and she's winking in and out like Kirk in the Thulian 414 00:28:18.839 --> 00:28:23.240 Web. Anyway, anyway, so go on, rob uh. You know, 415 00:28:23.319 --> 00:28:29.119 I'm uh, Jade Vance has got to be one of the most interesting 416 00:28:29.240 --> 00:28:33.880 people. Interesting in a personal journey, interesting intellectual journey. I mean, 417 00:28:36.240 --> 00:28:37.759 I'm again, I'm I don't want to be the jerk here, but I 418 00:28:38.119 --> 00:28:42.440 am always the jerk here. I am disquieted by the fact that he was 419 00:28:42.480 --> 00:28:49.759 such a full throated Trump critic and then now a full throated Trump uh uh 420 00:28:52.160 --> 00:28:56.839 running mate. It's so they were so extreme that it feels to be like, 421 00:28:56.880 --> 00:29:00.680 this is an unformed person. It's at Rob accolytes the word you're looking 422 00:29:00.720 --> 00:29:03.359 for us act like yeah, yeah, someone going off to seminary ought to 423 00:29:03.400 --> 00:29:06.279 have that one, right, Yeah, you're right. Well, you know, 424 00:29:06.839 --> 00:29:08.400 all due respect to acolytes. I just it just to me, it 425 00:29:08.400 --> 00:29:11.640 feels a little I don't, I don't. It just feels unformed. Like 426 00:29:11.680 --> 00:29:18.440 this is a young man and he's you know, his own personal life story 427 00:29:18.559 --> 00:29:25.000 is interesting and his I mean the in light of his you know, populism, 428 00:29:25.039 --> 00:29:30.519 economic populism, his his Ivy League roots and powerful wife. I think 429 00:29:30.559 --> 00:29:37.839 these are all sort of these were red flags for for a candidate like Jadie 430 00:29:37.880 --> 00:29:41.000 Vance. I mean to say so that I find him. He's confusing to 431 00:29:41.039 --> 00:29:45.480 me because I feel him his inconsistency makes me nervous. Well, two observations. 432 00:29:45.519 --> 00:29:51.160 One is he's the youngest vice presidential running mate since Richard Nixon in nineteen 433 00:29:51.200 --> 00:29:55.720 fifty two. And I think the fact that Trump picked him and as rob 434 00:29:55.720 --> 00:29:57.720 points out, was willing to set aside all those old harsh remarks. It's 435 00:29:57.759 --> 00:30:00.920 kind of interesting, but I think he picked him because it's doubling down on 436 00:30:02.759 --> 00:30:06.559 the brand of rejecting the establishment, right. Yeah, Instead, and it 437 00:30:06.640 --> 00:30:10.559 wasn't he didn't pick somebody to pick a state appeal to a certain group. 438 00:30:10.839 --> 00:30:12.200 He said, No, I'm going to double down on my brand and point 439 00:30:12.200 --> 00:30:15.720 the way to the future of the party. Second thing, one of the 440 00:30:15.799 --> 00:30:19.319 things I thought was interesting in Vance's speech is twice he said, and I 441 00:30:19.440 --> 00:30:22.119 think people picked up on us. He said, you know, I know, 442 00:30:22.240 --> 00:30:25.519 you know, there's a lot of disagreement amongst us about what we should 443 00:30:25.559 --> 00:30:29.480 do about various issues, but that's what makes us stronger. We'll just argue 444 00:30:29.519 --> 00:30:33.519 these things out. I thought that was a very interesting technology. He said, 445 00:30:33.519 --> 00:30:34.799 it makes our movement stronger, which I've always believed by the way his 446 00:30:34.920 --> 00:30:38.119 church LEXU level right. I thought that was quite significant part of his speech 447 00:30:38.160 --> 00:30:41.200 that a lot of people dis missed. Yeah. I agree. And there's 448 00:30:41.200 --> 00:30:45.759 a lot of things with JD Events that I disagree with. I'm a Ukraine 449 00:30:45.960 --> 00:30:51.119 Hawk supporter. He isn't. There's some changes in his opinions on this and 450 00:30:51.119 --> 00:30:52.039 then the other. I don't agree with it. But on the other hand, 451 00:30:53.000 --> 00:30:56.640 if we'd got if you've gone with a Doug Burgham for example, or 452 00:30:56.799 --> 00:31:00.920 somebody who what would Doug Burgham have been? He would have been another Pence, 453 00:31:00.000 --> 00:31:03.799 He would have been sort of another hologram decent man was, you know, 454 00:31:04.240 --> 00:31:08.720 integrity and smarts and all that. But it just brings absolutely nothing vance 455 00:31:08.759 --> 00:31:15.920 bring that that that cohort of the country that is worried about people mired in 456 00:31:15.960 --> 00:31:18.279 intergenerational poverty and drug use. I mean, that's that's just that box tick 457 00:31:18.480 --> 00:31:22.640 and and it's it's hard not to see that. It's a way of saying, 458 00:31:23.440 --> 00:31:26.119 I see these people, I see this problem, I understand it, 459 00:31:26.119 --> 00:31:30.920 and I'm concerned about it. But you know when you say that he was 460 00:31:30.920 --> 00:31:33.559 a strong critic and then he's changed, well two things. One, all 461 00:31:33.599 --> 00:31:37.160 of us by this point in our lives should know that politicians are infinitely malleable 462 00:31:37.160 --> 00:31:41.079 depending on the circumstances, and we shouldn't trust any of them. Uh. 463 00:31:41.200 --> 00:31:44.519 And Two, from what I understand about Trump, it's not what you said 464 00:31:44.599 --> 00:31:47.440 yesterday is what you're saying today. If you were just if you if you 465 00:31:47.480 --> 00:31:51.480 were a critic a month ago, but today you are in full throwner agreement 466 00:31:51.720 --> 00:31:56.039 that matters more than what you said before. And I don't know if that's 467 00:31:56.039 --> 00:32:00.119 a personality defect or if it's just human nature for him, or well, 468 00:31:59.759 --> 00:32:05.480 he does like it when you bend the knee. Yeah, the people around 469 00:32:05.599 --> 00:32:09.519 him tend to be I guess I will use the term acolytes, but there's 470 00:32:09.559 --> 00:32:13.240 not people around him do not tend to stand up to him, and the 471 00:32:13.240 --> 00:32:15.319 ones that do don't last. What do we mean by bend the knee though, 472 00:32:15.319 --> 00:32:17.400 because I mean, I mean, we've used that, We use it. 473 00:32:17.559 --> 00:32:20.359 We use it a lot during the early, you know, the first 474 00:32:20.400 --> 00:32:24.279 Trump presidential campaign and administration, because we wanted to say that a little bit 475 00:32:24.319 --> 00:32:27.319 of the Caesar to it. We wanted to say that a little bit of 476 00:32:27.359 --> 00:32:30.039 the king and the authoritarian and the rest of it, bend the knee. 477 00:32:30.039 --> 00:32:34.200 We had that. But you know, maybe it's not so much as that, 478 00:32:34.599 --> 00:32:39.039 as not bending the knee, but just assuaging the the ego of of 479 00:32:39.039 --> 00:32:45.160 of of making sure that he knows you're on his side. That's not necessarily 480 00:32:45.440 --> 00:32:51.799 submitting yourself to the to the magisterial authority of Donald Trump. It's just it's 481 00:32:51.839 --> 00:32:54.119 it's just saying I'm on. I'm on the side of the people who don't 482 00:32:54.160 --> 00:32:58.920 laugh at you as Donnie from Queen's I'm on the side of the people who 483 00:32:59.000 --> 00:33:04.400 are not making fun of you as an RV stay short fingered vulgarian who doesn't 484 00:33:04.440 --> 00:33:07.400 really belong in polite society at all. I'm not one of those. And 485 00:33:07.920 --> 00:33:14.359 I'm coming around to the idea that's that's what it is, not the authoritarian 486 00:33:14.440 --> 00:33:17.839 nature, because the whole season of authoritarian stuff just got very, very tired 487 00:33:17.960 --> 00:33:22.240 early on when we saw that that was not how the administration was going to 488 00:33:22.279 --> 00:33:27.200 go. Yeah, I'm not sure though that I'm not sure that that that's 489 00:33:27.240 --> 00:33:30.400 true. I mean that I understand what you're saying, except that I think 490 00:33:30.400 --> 00:33:36.759 that the people the bending the knee means you have to capitulate. And you 491 00:33:36.799 --> 00:33:40.240 know, he has one thing we can say about him is he has terrible, 492 00:33:40.480 --> 00:33:45.799 terrible taste in staff, right. I mean, by his own admission, 493 00:33:45.880 --> 00:33:47.799 he's fired them all and didn't like them all, and he surrounded himself. 494 00:33:47.839 --> 00:33:53.519 He's a very bad hirer right, And so loyalty is the most important 495 00:33:53.559 --> 00:34:00.480 thing for him because he's inconsistent. So bending the knee is it is a 496 00:34:00.519 --> 00:34:05.119 pejorative because it did. It does seem like there were times and even I'm 497 00:34:05.160 --> 00:34:12.519 sure we'll see in the future where he's surrounded by willing eunuchs, right, 498 00:34:12.639 --> 00:34:15.840 I mean, they think what's happened to Ted Cruz or Marco Rubio or any 499 00:34:15.840 --> 00:34:20.159 of those people who were sort of statesman in twenty fifteen, and then by 500 00:34:20.159 --> 00:34:29.119 twenty eighteen we'reus sort of I mean in Harem practically, so I'm not sure. 501 00:34:29.440 --> 00:34:31.320 But again we're talking about then, is right. We're talking about politicians 502 00:34:31.400 --> 00:34:35.800 want access to power and the ability to use power, and so the clearest 503 00:34:35.960 --> 00:34:38.400 route to that is is going to be going through the guy who's at the 504 00:34:38.400 --> 00:34:43.719 top. Yeah, now, oh sorry, No, I know nothing. 505 00:34:44.360 --> 00:34:47.920 I'm and I don't mean to get particularly spun up or part of this issue. 506 00:34:47.920 --> 00:34:51.320 If I if I sound as if I am, it's because I'm really 507 00:34:51.400 --> 00:34:54.239 energetic today, and I'm very energetic. Why are you energetic? James? 508 00:34:54.239 --> 00:34:59.679 What I am? I am? One of the reasons is my potasha metabitalism 509 00:35:00.039 --> 00:35:05.280 working. Sorry, I checking that tabs somehow reset my metabolism. So I 510 00:35:05.559 --> 00:35:07.320 went to Europe for two weeks. I ate absolutely everything. I came back 511 00:35:07.320 --> 00:35:10.480 at longch the time. I am serious and people say it's the walking. 512 00:35:10.599 --> 00:35:15.079 People say true, people say it's the fact that the food isn't process and 513 00:35:15.079 --> 00:35:16.320 full of seed oils. Whatever it is. I mean, I ate a 514 00:35:16.320 --> 00:35:19.400 lot of fish and chips, and I had dessert after every meal, and 515 00:35:19.440 --> 00:35:22.440 I came back and I lost a pound. So the metabolism thing is really 516 00:35:22.480 --> 00:35:27.840 important, but it's a mystery sometimes, isn't it. That's where Lumen comes 517 00:35:27.840 --> 00:35:30.320 in. And I love this thing. I absolutely love this thing. I 518 00:35:30.400 --> 00:35:32.559 wish I had for you an unboxing video where I could show you the Lumin. 519 00:35:32.599 --> 00:35:37.400 I wish that I could show you tell you the wonderful, silky feel 520 00:35:37.400 --> 00:35:42.239 of the portable pouch it has. I wish I could just impress upon you 521 00:35:42.280 --> 00:35:45.719 how this thing feels like an Apple device. It's so cool, and I'm 522 00:35:45.760 --> 00:35:49.679 glad they sent me one. What is it? You ask? Sounds great? 523 00:35:49.719 --> 00:35:52.760 I want one? But what is it? Lumen is the world's first 524 00:35:52.880 --> 00:35:59.679 handheld metabolic coach. It's advice that measures your metabolism through your breath. It's 525 00:35:59.679 --> 00:36:02.400 got an app right. It lets you know if you're burning fat or carbs, 526 00:36:02.400 --> 00:36:06.280 and it gives you tailored guidance to improve your nutrition, your workouts, 527 00:36:06.400 --> 00:36:08.639 your sleep, and even your stress management. All you have to do is 528 00:36:08.679 --> 00:36:12.400 to breathe into your lumin first thing in the morning, and it's this process. 529 00:36:12.440 --> 00:36:15.039 The app tells you how to do it. It's very simple. You 530 00:36:15.159 --> 00:36:17.079 watch the app, you breathe, You wait until the ball starts boncing, 531 00:36:17.079 --> 00:36:21.239 and then it goes, and then it thinks and it cogitates, and it 532 00:36:21.280 --> 00:36:23.039 will tell you what's going on when you do with metabolism, whether you're burning 533 00:36:23.079 --> 00:36:28.800 mostly fats or carbs. Then Lumen gives you a personalized nutrition plan for the 534 00:36:28.840 --> 00:36:32.599 day based on your measurements. Your metabolism is your body's engine. It's how 535 00:36:32.639 --> 00:36:36.440 your body turns the food you eat into the fuel it keeps you going. 536 00:36:36.480 --> 00:36:39.119 And because your metabolism is the center of everything your body does, optimal metabolic 537 00:36:39.159 --> 00:36:44.960 health translates into well a bunch of benefits until they easier weight management, improved 538 00:36:45.039 --> 00:36:47.639 energy levels, fit, better fitness results, better sleep, and the ability 539 00:36:47.639 --> 00:36:51.360 to go to Europe for two weeks, eat absolutely everything in the continent and 540 00:36:51.400 --> 00:36:54.519 come back just as you were. Luman gives you recommendations to improve your metabolic 541 00:36:54.559 --> 00:36:58.400 health. And that's what I love about it. I started using this thing 542 00:36:58.440 --> 00:37:02.119 and it knows me right off the bat. It knows exactly what's going on. 543 00:37:02.519 --> 00:37:06.199 So here's how many carbs you can have for the day, Here's how 544 00:37:06.239 --> 00:37:08.519 much of this, and it's it's it's it's it's like a gift. I 545 00:37:08.519 --> 00:37:10.920 look at that carb measurement and I say, I'm going to have that, 546 00:37:10.960 --> 00:37:14.320 and I'm going to have that in a pancake and I'm going to have that 547 00:37:14.440 --> 00:37:17.239 and you know, in a Mars bar. It's great, It's absolutely great. 548 00:37:17.519 --> 00:37:22.079 I cannot endorse this thing enough. I love it. And you know, 549 00:37:22.679 --> 00:37:25.280 the feel of the unit just tells you that it's it's a solid piece 550 00:37:25.320 --> 00:37:29.159 of tech. I just anyway, if you want to take the next step 551 00:37:29.159 --> 00:37:31.079 in improving your health and see whether or not I'm telling you how cool this 552 00:37:31.119 --> 00:37:36.559 thing is, go to Lumen dot m E slash ricochet to get fifteen percent 553 00:37:36.599 --> 00:37:42.280 off your lumen. This is l U m E n dot m E slash 554 00:37:42.440 --> 00:37:45.199 Ricochet or fifteen percent off your purchase. And we thank Luman for sponsoring this 555 00:37:45.760 --> 00:37:51.480 Ricochet podcast. Any chance we have a back yet or if we just did. 556 00:37:51.760 --> 00:37:54.400 Think I'm seeing her, but Steve, you got you had a you 557 00:37:54.480 --> 00:37:59.440 wanted a you wanted to chime in on this is she had a sloped rough 558 00:37:59.519 --> 00:38:04.679 or something. You get up. She get an update for cloud from crowd 559 00:38:04.760 --> 00:38:08.079 striker. That's That's one of my jokes is how do you flumox the Secret 560 00:38:08.119 --> 00:38:15.119 Service? You slip them a roofie. Now you are you are just you 561 00:38:15.159 --> 00:38:19.360 know, stand up king today. I'm having a good time with you guys. 562 00:38:19.400 --> 00:38:21.599 I'm like you, James, I'm kind of I'm kind of amped up. 563 00:38:21.840 --> 00:38:23.800 Uh, but I do dissent from Brother Rob. But Brother Rob, 564 00:38:23.880 --> 00:38:28.960 you are my favorite rhino and I usually thank you. But on this loyalty 565 00:38:29.039 --> 00:38:31.599 question, I have a different perspective. First of all, as an old 566 00:38:31.599 --> 00:38:35.039 guy, my knees don't bend very well anymore. So this is a tough 567 00:38:35.079 --> 00:38:39.199 subject. But I will concede to you that Trump gives loyalty a bad name. 568 00:38:42.199 --> 00:38:47.559 But look there, but loyalty to presidents and administrations is actually very serious 569 00:38:47.599 --> 00:38:52.400 and significant problem and a reasonable demand. I mean, Nixon complained about disloyal 570 00:38:52.440 --> 00:38:58.199 appointees. The Reagan administration had a big problem with that. And by the 571 00:38:58.239 --> 00:39:00.400 way, I think you want to make a distinction between political loyalty, which 572 00:39:00.440 --> 00:39:07.280 is are you loyal to the president's program and ideas or are you personal loyalty 573 00:39:07.320 --> 00:39:08.719 to the person, or are you out to make your own career. You 574 00:39:08.719 --> 00:39:13.400 know, it used to be said that Nancy Reagan had a superpower for being 575 00:39:13.480 --> 00:39:16.480 able to tell when someone was working in the Reagan White House to help Reagan 576 00:39:16.519 --> 00:39:21.119 look good and help achieve his executives, or someone there to build up their 577 00:39:21.159 --> 00:39:24.280 own resume and maybe sometimes undermine them. The problem with Trump is, and 578 00:39:24.639 --> 00:39:28.800 I'm coming back closer to your position again, is you don't know what his 579 00:39:28.880 --> 00:39:31.119 program is. Necessarily. I think a lot of people who went to work 580 00:39:31.159 --> 00:39:36.239 for him, like General Kelly and some of the others, they probably intended 581 00:39:36.280 --> 00:39:42.119 to be loyal to him in the ordinary sense. Hr mcma all those there's 582 00:39:42.360 --> 00:39:47.199 very bard. They're all very able people who would thrive in any other administration 583 00:39:47.400 --> 00:39:51.880 with a president who was less shall we say, mercurial than Trump was. 584 00:39:52.360 --> 00:39:54.800 So one question for a second term, if we have one as expected, 585 00:39:54.960 --> 00:39:59.280 is Trump going to be steadier and more consistent in what he wants done? 586 00:39:59.760 --> 00:40:01.760 Or if not, it'll be just like the first term with lots of chaos. 587 00:40:01.800 --> 00:40:06.679 Even if your point really able and people who intend to be loyal. 588 00:40:06.719 --> 00:40:08.599 So it's some more complicated problem, that's all I mean. The second second 589 00:40:08.679 --> 00:40:13.480 term would not have Russia Gate. It would not have from the get go 590 00:40:14.000 --> 00:40:17.800 this whole concerted narrative. That absolutely clud what I mean, Yeah, that's 591 00:40:17.840 --> 00:40:21.559 I mean, that's important. Is it not? No, it's not, 592 00:40:21.719 --> 00:40:24.079 It really isn't. I mean he blew it in the first term. As 593 00:40:24.159 --> 00:40:30.000 presidents in their second term have less power, they accomplish less when they talk, 594 00:40:30.559 --> 00:40:34.280 I'm talking about they need accomplishments. What they need to do in the 595 00:40:34.320 --> 00:40:37.920 second term is compromise and they think about their legacy. And that's when they 596 00:40:38.000 --> 00:40:42.920 get nervous because they don't have any leverage because everybody knows it's not running again. 597 00:40:43.159 --> 00:40:45.039 And the minute you get you take off. As any second term president, 598 00:40:45.079 --> 00:40:47.440 it's the same thing. The clock is ticking. That's you know kind 599 00:40:47.440 --> 00:40:51.360 of what they why they call the second term president lame duck. We don't 600 00:40:51.360 --> 00:40:53.400 have the stick you used to have. Well, not going to walk in 601 00:40:53.440 --> 00:40:57.239 with that. That's going to be this that's the political reality of his second 602 00:40:57.360 --> 00:41:00.119 term. It would be that. It's the reality anybody's second turm. I'm 603 00:41:00.119 --> 00:41:01.840 sorry, Steve, go ahead, No, that's another reason for the JD 604 00:41:01.920 --> 00:41:05.840 Vance pick, right, is that is pointing beyond it. In other words, 605 00:41:05.880 --> 00:41:09.800 he doesn't want to be a typical second term president. Well, yeah, 606 00:41:09.800 --> 00:41:15.199 I mean I think I think that that would be the three dimensional chess 607 00:41:15.760 --> 00:41:21.719 argument for it. But I just wish I knew what their what their plan 608 00:41:22.000 --> 00:41:25.320 was in a country that is not He is not going to I mean, 609 00:41:25.440 --> 00:41:30.159 we're not going to have suddenly a lock on the house in the Senate. 610 00:41:30.199 --> 00:41:32.039 Even if he does, it's only for two years. What his plan is 611 00:41:32.079 --> 00:41:36.679 to do things differently from the way he did them in the first term, 612 00:41:37.400 --> 00:41:40.360 No, and I don't see that. But when I when I say there 613 00:41:40.360 --> 00:41:45.400 won't be Russia Gate, I mean we will have all We will have a 614 00:41:45.440 --> 00:41:50.920 political landscape that is actually about the issues. You may disregard, you may 615 00:41:50.960 --> 00:41:53.440 disagree with what issues he wants and the way he wants to do them, 616 00:41:53.679 --> 00:41:58.320 But it seems as if we have a fighting chance to do that without having 617 00:41:58.679 --> 00:42:05.400 this immense, tornadic activity in the press and the media and the culture about 618 00:42:05.480 --> 00:42:08.360 Russiagate. Yeah, but remember, Russia Gate was a problem for him because 619 00:42:08.400 --> 00:42:13.000 he made it a problem for him, because he woke up every day and 620 00:42:13.039 --> 00:42:16.280 spent three hours in his bedroom putting on his makeup and fixing his hair and 621 00:42:16.320 --> 00:42:21.360 tweeting and watching the morning shows and getting furious he chose to do that. 622 00:42:21.400 --> 00:42:24.920 I mean, if you look at when Bill Clinton was being impeached, rightfully, 623 00:42:24.960 --> 00:42:28.679 so in my mind it was about to be kicked out of office, 624 00:42:29.000 --> 00:42:31.119 which I wish he had had been. He actually managed to get things done. 625 00:42:31.840 --> 00:42:37.039 If you cannot compartmentalize as a chief executive, especially in your second term, 626 00:42:37.559 --> 00:42:40.400 you're sunk, you're sunk. So the idea that his I mean, 627 00:42:40.440 --> 00:42:44.000 I mean, I know I'm a broken record on this, you should probably, 628 00:42:44.159 --> 00:42:46.320 I'm sure there's a million the Trump supporters now turning this thing off because 629 00:42:46.320 --> 00:42:50.880 nobody wants to hear it. But no regards he didn't. The stuff he 630 00:42:51.039 --> 00:42:55.119 got in his first term attacks a bill, which I agreed with, and 631 00:42:55.159 --> 00:43:01.199 then some foreign policy successes which were great, but he passed steel tariffs which 632 00:43:01.239 --> 00:43:06.760 were idiotic and hurt the American economy. This is not an argument. You 633 00:43:06.800 --> 00:43:12.519 can't argue this. This is twenty nineteen economic data, and it was because 634 00:43:12.559 --> 00:43:17.280 of what he did in steel for steel, our trade gap I mean in 635 00:43:17.360 --> 00:43:25.800 terms of importing exporting to Mexico went south when he renegotiated foolishly NAFTA and didn't 636 00:43:25.880 --> 00:43:30.440 change much except to include the big trade unions on the bargaining table, and 637 00:43:30.480 --> 00:43:34.519 then he went to China. This is what happened. Right then he went 638 00:43:34.559 --> 00:43:38.119 to China and rattled his sword, and I was all in favor of it. 639 00:43:38.320 --> 00:43:43.159 But the first thing he gave up was in the intellectual property protections that 640 00:43:43.199 --> 00:43:49.280 American businesses need. So it's like, this guy is inconsistent at best, 641 00:43:49.320 --> 00:43:52.559 and we haven't gotten to the part where he seated the entire federal government to 642 00:43:52.599 --> 00:43:58.840 the swamp during COVID and he attacked the Republican governors who stood up. So 643 00:43:59.360 --> 00:44:01.360 I mean, I hope he's going to be better, But like I think 644 00:44:01.519 --> 00:44:07.280 we if you have the if you have principles that are conservative, you have 645 00:44:07.360 --> 00:44:09.920 to you can't just give them up. Because you know, he got shot 646 00:44:09.960 --> 00:44:13.960 in the ear and looked heroic and is in many ways kind of a cool 647 00:44:14.079 --> 00:44:15.679 dude. I think he's a funny guy and I think he's super charismatic, 648 00:44:15.719 --> 00:44:20.079 But I don't know, Like this is the world's getting more complicated. This 649 00:44:20.119 --> 00:44:22.639 is the funny part is that you have on the left right now people who 650 00:44:22.719 --> 00:44:27.840 believe that Donald Trump is going to get into office and institute Project twenty twenty 651 00:44:27.840 --> 00:44:30.639 five and put them all in camps. They actually believe that we're here. 652 00:44:30.760 --> 00:44:35.280 On the other side, you have Rob Long saying no, I'm more's just 653 00:44:35.280 --> 00:44:38.920 going to get back in and and and put in more steel tariffs. But 654 00:44:39.400 --> 00:44:44.159 I literally said he's going to which I agree with you is a bad idea. 655 00:44:44.239 --> 00:44:46.880 But what I'm talking about is that we had four years, for three 656 00:44:46.960 --> 00:44:52.360 years, of a cultural narrative about this guy that was overblown. It was 657 00:44:52.440 --> 00:44:58.280 absolutely, you know, just a volcano of paranoia that I don't think we're 658 00:44:58.280 --> 00:45:02.159 going to have this time because it's burned itself out. And the idea that 659 00:45:02.199 --> 00:45:07.079 we're going to replay the four years of hair on fire that we had previously, 660 00:45:07.119 --> 00:45:10.840 I don't think that's the case. I think that that has been spent, 661 00:45:12.800 --> 00:45:15.800 is what I'm saying. And so in the absence, I mean, 662 00:45:15.840 --> 00:45:17.519 one of the reasons possibly we couldn't have good arguments about any of the things 663 00:45:17.599 --> 00:45:21.880 you were talking about was because we always were back into a corner about well, 664 00:45:21.880 --> 00:45:23.320 he's a tool of Putin, and that was the only thing that anybody 665 00:45:23.400 --> 00:45:28.000 ever really talked about for a very long time. In the absence of that, 666 00:45:28.039 --> 00:45:30.199 I think there's an opportunity in the first two years to have a little 667 00:45:30.239 --> 00:45:35.239 bit more clarity and a little bit more you know, discussion of the issues. 668 00:45:35.320 --> 00:45:39.840 That's my hope. I may be a Pollyanna. I'm sure I am. 669 00:45:40.079 --> 00:45:45.239 We've got a few minutes here and where we send out the part and 670 00:45:45.599 --> 00:45:47.880 I will settle it, Rob. But it won't go well for you because 671 00:45:49.239 --> 00:45:52.320 I have to say I'm really unused to Rob Long, the policy wonk. 672 00:45:52.960 --> 00:45:59.760 But well, I mean, I can do a different balance sheet on various 673 00:45:59.760 --> 00:46:01.559 policy season, but I won't. Instead, I want to look at something 674 00:46:01.599 --> 00:46:06.239 that normally I would expect from you to observe it. And just one example, 675 00:46:06.639 --> 00:46:09.519 when George W. Bush pulled us out of the Kyoto Protocol back in 676 00:46:09.559 --> 00:46:13.079 two thousand and two, he just did it with a letter, an executive 677 00:46:13.079 --> 00:46:15.760 boarder or whatever. Yeah, when Trump pulled us out of the Paris Climate 678 00:46:15.800 --> 00:46:20.920 Accord, he did a big White House ceremony, He had a brass band, 679 00:46:21.000 --> 00:46:23.280 he invited me down. He talked about how we love our coal miners. 680 00:46:23.280 --> 00:46:27.360 By the way, coal mining went down more under Trump than it did 681 00:46:27.440 --> 00:46:30.920 under Obama. Okay, but the point was is that why is that important? 682 00:46:31.039 --> 00:46:35.599 That's important because like I said, I have a more favorable view on 683 00:46:35.599 --> 00:46:38.400 the balance sheet of policies than you do. But the broader point is he 684 00:46:38.559 --> 00:46:43.239 is he is, he is working a well. First of all, it's 685 00:46:43.239 --> 00:46:47.119 a frontal challenge to the premises and the dialogue of our establishment. You know, 686 00:46:47.280 --> 00:46:51.199 no other Republican would have had a brass band to say, I'm going 687 00:46:51.239 --> 00:46:53.280 to give the middle finger to the Paris Climate Accord, which is a nothing 688 00:46:53.320 --> 00:46:55.639 burger agreement. By the way. He didn't need to do that, by 689 00:46:55.679 --> 00:46:59.519 the way. Everybody around him was against it. His Secretary of State was 690 00:46:59.519 --> 00:47:02.159 against him doing that, if Jared and Ivanka were against it, and he 691 00:47:02.199 --> 00:47:06.079 went and did it. And that's what I like about the guy. And 692 00:47:06.119 --> 00:47:09.159 I think we're getting more of that. Please, And I'll just plant this 693 00:47:09.280 --> 00:47:13.679 now and you guys will talk about it later some other episode. But the 694 00:47:13.679 --> 00:47:16.599 civil service reform idea, it sounds wonky, and it's actually, I think 695 00:47:16.679 --> 00:47:21.480 quite significant, And if he get makes some progress on that, that's going 696 00:47:21.559 --> 00:47:24.880 to be very significant. I think I won agree. Okay, I do 697 00:47:24.960 --> 00:47:27.960 too. And here's something else that I'd like to see back. I'd like 698 00:47:28.000 --> 00:47:30.760 to see back the push toward traditional architecture and government building. Yes, and 699 00:47:30.800 --> 00:47:34.199 I know that a lot of people believe that this is just a precursor to 700 00:47:34.239 --> 00:47:37.800 fascism, because you know what did Musolini do well, Actually he went with 701 00:47:37.840 --> 00:47:40.679 sort of a stripped down fascist modern thing. But that's irrelevant. The idea 702 00:47:40.719 --> 00:47:45.679 that somehow we are going to be repudiating all of the progressive elements of the 703 00:47:45.679 --> 00:47:50.679 twentieth century if we go back to a more eye pleasing symmetrical form of architecture 704 00:47:50.719 --> 00:47:53.920 is ridiculous. Of course it would be. It would be they'd have a 705 00:47:53.920 --> 00:47:59.880 better job making the argument on the other side if they weren't defending hideous monstras 706 00:48:00.079 --> 00:48:04.199 these that that that soil the landscape at nearly almost every American city where they're 707 00:48:04.239 --> 00:48:07.639 planted. I just love the idea. Biden, I think got rid of 708 00:48:07.639 --> 00:48:10.440 that that the edict on day one, on day one, and I think, 709 00:48:10.719 --> 00:48:14.760 you know, Trump will probably do it back. There's probably some building 710 00:48:14.760 --> 00:48:17.480 out there, and given the pace at which these things are constructed and planned, 711 00:48:17.519 --> 00:48:21.679 that's been in you know, that's been moving along for six years now, 712 00:48:22.199 --> 00:48:23.960 and now the guys who stripped off the columns for the version that they're 713 00:48:24.079 --> 00:48:27.599 planning to build are been wondering if we're going to have to put the columns 714 00:48:27.639 --> 00:48:30.000 back on that good thing. With computer aid design, it can be, 715 00:48:30.119 --> 00:48:32.800 it can be. Okay, when Trump was Trump did this thing and we 716 00:48:32.840 --> 00:48:35.960 had you know, it was symmetrical, it had a portico, it had 717 00:48:35.960 --> 00:48:39.280 the columns. And then Biden came in. We made it asymmetrical. We 718 00:48:39.320 --> 00:48:44.840 added a whole bunch of reflective glass and brutalless concrete on this side. But 719 00:48:44.880 --> 00:48:47.039 not Trump's coming in. I wonder if we can eat anybody got that drawing 720 00:48:47.039 --> 00:48:51.280 beg that we had. You know, one of my my professor of architectural 721 00:48:51.360 --> 00:48:57.840 history in college, gave a big, like a like a five day five 722 00:48:58.519 --> 00:49:08.000 not five days, like three day lecture on the the horrible turn in public 723 00:49:08.400 --> 00:49:14.599 architecture from sort of you know, you know modernism, if you like it, 724 00:49:14.639 --> 00:49:16.400 you know, the steel glass thing, it's that's that's kind of everywhere, 725 00:49:16.639 --> 00:49:22.400 but to the brutalist kind of concrete stuff that they were doing. Every 726 00:49:22.440 --> 00:49:25.239 federal building looks like that pretty much. And he said, and he used 727 00:49:25.239 --> 00:49:29.239 the perfect example of it was the Boston City Hall, right, which is 728 00:49:29.280 --> 00:49:31.239 on this Skully Square, which these old squares there's kind of beautiful and it's 729 00:49:31.280 --> 00:49:35.239 like we used to be kind of a rabbit's warren of roads and was just 730 00:49:35.280 --> 00:49:42.119 this big flat plaza with this concrete beehive on top of it that was asymmetrical 731 00:49:42.159 --> 00:49:45.199 and kind of top heavy. And he said, and I remember, this 732 00:49:45.679 --> 00:49:52.519 goes this building, and this plaza is fit only for angry and violent demonstrations. 733 00:49:53.039 --> 00:49:57.199 And you look at you like, yeah, like it's a it's a 734 00:49:57.480 --> 00:50:01.679 it's a government screaming at the people and providing them flat ground in the you 735 00:50:01.679 --> 00:50:06.599 know, with no trees to screen back. And and it was exactly right. 736 00:50:06.639 --> 00:50:08.039 I can never look at those buildings again. So yeah, okay, 737 00:50:08.519 --> 00:50:14.800 I'm I'm in favorite brass bands when we pull out of stupid climate change nonsense. 738 00:50:14.880 --> 00:50:22.079 I'm in favor of putting a doric columns back. But he's about to 739 00:50:22.119 --> 00:50:23.639 say no, no, no, no, I must not be right there, 740 00:50:23.679 --> 00:50:27.360 because you're right. He was right about the brutalism building. And as 741 00:50:27.360 --> 00:50:30.960 I've said before, it's interesting whenever they make a movie about a dystopian future, 742 00:50:30.000 --> 00:50:32.960 all they have to do is go and find a college campus somewhere that 743 00:50:34.079 --> 00:50:37.119 was built between sixty five and seventy five, and they have all of the 744 00:50:37.400 --> 00:50:42.599 humorless oppressive nature of an authority and state, authoritarian state right there. It's 745 00:50:42.639 --> 00:50:45.599 an awful form of architecture. And I thought it was dead. I thought 746 00:50:45.599 --> 00:50:47.280 we were past it. Yeah, it was in Edinburgh last week, a 747 00:50:47.320 --> 00:50:51.599 couple of weeks ago. I got to see the new Scottish Parliament. Oh 748 00:50:51.679 --> 00:50:54.920 it's that awful I've seen now, absolute excressence of it. It's one of 749 00:50:54.960 --> 00:50:59.639 the worst buildings I've ever seen in my life. And if you look at 750 00:50:59.679 --> 00:51:01.320 the design, and you will say, well, you can see that it's 751 00:51:01.360 --> 00:51:06.239 intended to be a tree that grows out, and that these are the leafs. 752 00:51:07.239 --> 00:51:12.280 Yes, if you are about a thousand feet in the air looking down, 753 00:51:12.760 --> 00:51:15.199 if you are standing around it, it is a boldus formless, shapeless 754 00:51:15.239 --> 00:51:21.559 thing that is spattered for no apparent reason with these strange shapes that look like 755 00:51:21.840 --> 00:51:24.320 sevens or inverted elves or something like that. And I couldn't figure out what 756 00:51:24.360 --> 00:51:29.000 they were. They're all over the place. They're like a strange barnacle that 757 00:51:29.119 --> 00:51:34.280 fastened to the building. So we go inside and it's brutalist. It's it's 758 00:51:34.280 --> 00:51:37.440 a brutalist bill. It literally is raw concrete. You can see it everywhere, 759 00:51:37.519 --> 00:51:40.400 unadorned. It's the sort of thing that you can just I mean, 760 00:51:40.440 --> 00:51:45.320 it looks like what the who are relieving their bladders on and the Who's next 761 00:51:45.360 --> 00:51:47.559 cover album. It's awful. You go to this door that takes you up 762 00:51:47.559 --> 00:51:52.159 this this meandering staircase, so you go and see your parliamentary people at work. 763 00:51:52.559 --> 00:51:55.760 And instead of I mean, I'd just been to Holyroot, I'd just 764 00:51:55.840 --> 00:52:01.800 been to you know, other beautiful buildings, and I'd seen that even the 765 00:52:01.880 --> 00:52:08.719 humblest of spaces elevated the soul, embigned your sense of glory, that the 766 00:52:08.760 --> 00:52:15.639 smallest, most reasonable buildings, commercial or otherwise had an element of uplift to 767 00:52:15.679 --> 00:52:17.719 it. They said that we're going to gather together the spirit of humanity in 768 00:52:17.760 --> 00:52:22.360 this doorframe. What you get in the Scottish Parliament is an unadorned, concrete, 769 00:52:23.000 --> 00:52:27.320 dank little thing through which you have to pass, and it makes you 770 00:52:27.360 --> 00:52:30.800 feel as though you are just nothing but a gnat, that the great stony 771 00:52:30.800 --> 00:52:32.840 finger of the state is going to come down to crush. But at least 772 00:52:32.880 --> 00:52:37.119 they explain what the things on the outside of the building are. They have 773 00:52:37.159 --> 00:52:40.199 a keith. Here's this shape, it means this. Here's this shape, 774 00:52:40.199 --> 00:52:44.840 it means this. And I found a strange seven inverted l whatever the hell 775 00:52:44.920 --> 00:52:52.599 this thing was, and it is a abstract representation of a skating minister meant 776 00:52:52.719 --> 00:53:01.639 to meant to connote motion, joy forward movement. Well, well, no, 777 00:53:01.639 --> 00:53:06.000 no, no, no, I know what painting they're talking about. 778 00:53:06.440 --> 00:53:10.440 I had seen it the day before in the museum. I'd literally been staring 779 00:53:10.480 --> 00:53:13.840 because I know the painting before I saw it, and I'm looking at it 780 00:53:13.880 --> 00:53:15.079 as I'm happy to meet an old friend in person. How are you. 781 00:53:15.159 --> 00:53:19.480 I'm looking at this painting. It's having a wry sense of amusement at its 782 00:53:19.480 --> 00:53:22.199 composition, and it's and then I'm thinking, I just saw this thing, 783 00:53:22.800 --> 00:53:27.960 and it never occurred to me looking at your building, that these shapes movement 784 00:53:28.400 --> 00:53:31.880 to be an example of that. If you failed with me, you failed 785 00:53:31.880 --> 00:53:36.880 with absolutely everybody. And if we have, thanks to Donald Trump, a 786 00:53:36.920 --> 00:53:40.199 new architectural standard that once again speaks to the deep roots of the culture and 787 00:53:40.280 --> 00:53:45.599 the country in all of the antecedents. You know what, I don't give 788 00:53:45.679 --> 00:53:52.400 a rats pitute about steel tabs, But I remember Churchill's famous line about architecture. 789 00:53:52.559 --> 00:53:57.760 First we shape our buildings, and then our buildings shape us. And 790 00:53:57.800 --> 00:54:00.360 by the way, it's worth reading the whole speech where he lays out why 791 00:54:00.440 --> 00:54:04.199 Parliament has to be rebuilt exactly the way it was after the Germans bombed in 792 00:54:04.239 --> 00:54:07.480 the war. And so yeah, if you get brutalist architecture for your a 793 00:54:07.480 --> 00:54:10.480 parliament building, I think there probably is a connection with our brutalist politics that 794 00:54:10.559 --> 00:54:15.599 have come along at the same time. Wrapping it up there, Steve, 795 00:54:15.639 --> 00:54:16.679 good for you. Well, before we go, a couple of things. 796 00:54:16.719 --> 00:54:20.239 One I'm going to Rob. You want to tell him about the meet up, 797 00:54:20.280 --> 00:54:22.440 So we just should tell him to go to ricochet dot com and see 798 00:54:22.440 --> 00:54:23.280 if I go to riche do com. We got a couple of meetups one 799 00:54:23.360 --> 00:54:27.559 last week of July. We have one scheduled in Saint Louis early October. 800 00:54:27.599 --> 00:54:30.119 There are plenty slots left. He's joined Ricochet, or come to a meetup, 801 00:54:30.239 --> 00:54:34.480 or just join Ricochet and tell people you want to meet up at a 802 00:54:34.519 --> 00:54:37.239 certain time and place and people will show up. I would be remiss if 803 00:54:37.239 --> 00:54:42.440 I did not give Rob the opportunity to tell some delightful little Hollywood anecdote about 804 00:54:42.480 --> 00:54:47.719 Bob NewART, who's passing. We deeply lament since he was an incredibly you 805 00:54:47.719 --> 00:54:52.199 don't want to say influential. I don't want to replay his krusty eulogy, 806 00:54:52.679 --> 00:54:57.880 but it was hard to know if he influenced anybody. It was in very 807 00:54:57.880 --> 00:55:04.559 subtle ways because his his ability to style was so unique and so wonderful. 808 00:55:04.639 --> 00:55:09.000 Yeah yeah, I mean I think unfortunately he didn't influence enough people because he 809 00:55:09.039 --> 00:55:12.920 was a really he was a genius and he and he was just a pure 810 00:55:12.960 --> 00:55:17.800 economy this guy. Uh never no movement, no no line, no eyebrow 811 00:55:19.039 --> 00:55:22.800 move nothing was out of it. All was just the perfect timing. He 812 00:55:22.880 --> 00:55:27.159 sort of invented it in a lot of ways. And he has the people 813 00:55:27.199 --> 00:55:30.119 who don't know, I'm like younger people like he did this trademark stammer, 814 00:55:30.159 --> 00:55:35.880 he did the button down Mine of Bob Newhart was the biggest selling album and 815 00:55:35.920 --> 00:55:40.280 biggest selling comedy album and it remained that way I think until the the eighties 816 00:55:40.400 --> 00:55:45.559 or something. I mean, he just was the number one and and it 817 00:55:45.599 --> 00:55:51.079 was just him having a one way phone call. Uh and with the variety 818 00:55:51.079 --> 00:55:54.840 of things are one way conversation, and it's unbelievably brilliant. It's sort of 819 00:55:54.840 --> 00:56:00.920 Will Rogers Mark Twain kind of level of genius. And he and he had 820 00:56:00.920 --> 00:56:05.000 a way of talking that was really his way. Although it had had you 821 00:56:05.000 --> 00:56:07.199 know, become more of a signature, and I just will tell he he 822 00:56:07.760 --> 00:56:10.000 I don't think he told me the story because we worked, we did a 823 00:56:10.000 --> 00:56:14.400 show together. But I think his son told me the story. I know 824 00:56:14.440 --> 00:56:17.480 he made he told his story that he's at. You know, he said, 825 00:56:17.639 --> 00:56:20.480 my kids, you know, they don't even listen to this. Only 826 00:56:20.719 --> 00:56:22.599 the oldest one served my albums. The youngest is youngest daughter, Courtney. 827 00:56:22.639 --> 00:56:28.880 He's this wonderful, wonderful person. Uh she you know, she's she's too 828 00:56:28.880 --> 00:56:31.079 young. She didn't really know what he did. And they're at Thanksgiving dinner 829 00:56:31.760 --> 00:56:37.079 in his house, his beautiful house and Bellair having Thanksgiving, and he's telling 830 00:56:37.079 --> 00:56:38.159 the story to the kids. He's saying, and you know, he's trying 831 00:56:38.159 --> 00:56:40.920 to tell a story about when he was growing up. And his his daughter, 832 00:56:40.920 --> 00:56:45.000 youngest daughter, Courtney, says, Dad, can you talk faster? 833 00:56:45.920 --> 00:56:55.880 And he said, no, Courtney did this is the way I talk. 834 00:56:55.960 --> 00:57:01.239 I talked, and and then he gestured the house into the and that is 835 00:57:01.239 --> 00:57:07.679 why we we have these things. It's because this is how I talk. 836 00:57:07.559 --> 00:57:14.400 And just like he nailed it, like and and it was you could you 837 00:57:14.440 --> 00:57:19.119 could imitate it, but you couldn't catch whatever that little spark was inside him 838 00:57:19.119 --> 00:57:22.800 that made it funny, so you could you could repeat word for word with 839 00:57:22.840 --> 00:57:25.440 the same number of pauses everything he said, and for some reason was missing 840 00:57:25.440 --> 00:57:30.400 the soul and and uh, he was just the He was the greatest. 841 00:57:30.480 --> 00:57:35.039 He was the greatest, and an incredibly nice guy to work with and very 842 00:57:35.119 --> 00:57:37.000 very thoughtful with the writers. But every now and then he would come up 843 00:57:37.039 --> 00:57:45.880 to you and say things like, can can we just give somebody else this 844 00:57:45.079 --> 00:57:52.800 line? Or or can I just not say anything in the scene. The 845 00:57:52.840 --> 00:57:55.360 star of the show rarely makes that request, but he's like, I don't 846 00:57:55.400 --> 00:57:58.239 really, I don't know. I feel like you gave me a line for 847 00:57:58.280 --> 00:58:00.360 no reason. I could just stand there. This isn't mind stay there. 848 00:58:00.400 --> 00:58:01.079 He was like, yeah, I'll just stand there behind the desk, or 849 00:58:01.079 --> 00:58:04.360 stand there at the table, or's all just stand there like that's what I 850 00:58:04.400 --> 00:58:07.960 do. I'm fine and like to have a star of that level that magnitude 851 00:58:08.280 --> 00:58:16.039 actively lobbying for less was kind of a gift. Was he responsible for the 852 00:58:16.079 --> 00:58:23.800 greatest ending of any sitcom series well conceived? I can tell you what I 853 00:58:23.840 --> 00:58:34.840 think he remembers it that he had come up with it, and he might 854 00:58:34.880 --> 00:58:38.360 have. However, I worked with a very, very very talented writer who 855 00:58:38.400 --> 00:58:42.920 had been a young writer on New Heart before he became a young writer on 856 00:58:43.000 --> 00:58:46.199 Cheers and was there when I was there, and years before the end of 857 00:58:46.239 --> 00:58:51.840 New Heart, he said that he had pitched this idea once in the room 858 00:58:51.880 --> 00:58:55.159 and they all kind of laughed. So somehow the idea was out there. 859 00:58:55.280 --> 00:58:58.559 And I won't give it away because some people don't know it. But it's 860 00:58:58.559 --> 00:59:00.880 a great ending to it. But but I remember Bob was telling me like 861 00:59:00.960 --> 00:59:04.639 it was a great ending. Everybody loved it. The only problem was it 862 00:59:04.679 --> 00:59:09.639 was extremely painful and emotionally damaging to the woman playing his wife in the second 863 00:59:09.639 --> 00:59:15.360 series, who felt like because she knew she never she had never measured up 864 00:59:15.400 --> 00:59:17.679 to zample set Well. I was just going to say, yeah, the 865 00:59:17.800 --> 00:59:21.639 entire thing may just be if you have that much power in Hollywood, the 866 00:59:21.639 --> 00:59:25.400 ability to get back in bed wizards. But there we end for the week 867 00:59:25.519 --> 00:59:30.400 and Stephen, it's you anything. Yeah, I've just said we're ending, 868 00:59:30.639 --> 00:59:32.039 all right, Stevens still here? You got anything you want to say? 869 00:59:32.199 --> 00:59:37.760 No? All right? Been a pleasure. As ever, this was episode 870 00:59:37.840 --> 00:59:42.519 number seven hundred. How did we get him? Only because Ricochet is fun 871 00:59:42.719 --> 00:59:45.280 and once you go there, if you have not gone there yet, uh 872 00:59:45.800 --> 00:59:50.519 just discovering this podcast, I entirely possible, go there and you will find 873 00:59:50.519 --> 00:59:52.960 the place you've been looking for all your life. On the Internet. Seriously, 874 00:59:52.280 --> 00:59:55.639 not Facebook, not Twitter, not x not Instagram, not The Talks, 875 00:59:57.039 --> 01:00:02.239 no Sane Center, civil conversations and crazy. Sometimes elbows are throwing, 876 01:00:02.320 --> 01:00:07.199 pans are hurled at heads, but it's all part of a community that we 877 01:00:07.239 --> 01:00:08.280 love. The member feed, that's where it's at. And yeah, you 878 01:00:08.320 --> 01:00:10.480 got to cop up a couple of shekels to get there, but it's worth 879 01:00:10.519 --> 01:00:14.760 every single one of them. Go to iTunes if you wouldn't like is there 880 01:00:14.760 --> 01:00:17.960 still an iTunes no music podcast whatever Apple's calling it? Give us five stars? 881 01:00:17.960 --> 01:00:21.400 Would it kill you? Wouldn't kill you? And join us next week 882 01:00:21.440 --> 01:00:24.639 when who knows, maybe Ann will be back. I have this horrible feeling 883 01:00:25.280 --> 01:00:29.760 that actually she doesn't know that she was disconnected and that she was answering our 884 01:00:30.119 --> 01:00:32.880 She's been answering our question for the last forty seven minutes, so much knowing 885 01:00:32.920 --> 01:00:37.760 her would be possible, and it would be hilariously funny anyway to listen to. 886 01:00:37.840 --> 01:00:40.599 So if there's a lost recording of Ann's reply in forty seven minutes. 887 01:00:40.639 --> 01:00:45.519 We'll be putting it out as an extra bonus adjunk podcast. Gentlemen. That's 888 01:00:45.519 --> 01:00:50.800 it for me, I except to note that Bob Newhart's second album was recorded 889 01:00:50.800 --> 01:00:54.480 here partially in Minneapolis. Thank you very much. Mat. That's it. 890 01:00:54.639 --> 01:00:58.159 We'll see you later, and we'll see you in the comments, said Ricochet 891 01:00:58.239 --> 01:01:07.000 four point zero. Next week, Fellos Ricochet join the conversation