1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:03,480 And go ahead, Peter. Sorry, no, I was going to say, 2 00:00:04,280 --> 00:00:10,000 you're not being here, so I'm just jumping. Ask not what your 3 00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:14,560 country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country. 4 00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:26,839 Mister Gorbuschoff, tear down this wall, read my lips. It is the 5 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:32,520 Ricochet Podcast. And guess who's joining us tinerant Odessean Peter Robinson. It's me 6 00:00:32,719 --> 00:00:37,759 Rob Long and Steve Hayward, and we are joined by Henry Olsen to talk 7 00:00:37,799 --> 00:00:41,520 about you know what, politics, et cetera. So stay tuned. What 8 00:00:42,039 --> 00:00:45,560 has taken place here is a travesty of justice. We did nothing wrong. 9 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:50,799 I did nothing wrong. Whether or not you believe that the criminal charges are 10 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:57,960 right or wrong, the conduct is beneath the office of President of the United 11 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:00,719 States. Welcome to the Ricochet Podcast. This is number six hundred and fifty 12 00:01:00,799 --> 00:01:07,040 six, six hundred and fifty six podcast. That's how many we've clocked. 13 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:11,560 That's crazy. I'm Rob Long coming to you from New York City and join 14 00:01:11,719 --> 00:01:15,840 me is Steve Hayward. Steve is in a very unusual location. Can you 15 00:01:17,079 --> 00:01:19,280 you can disclose it right? It's not unexclosed. I can't. I'm sitting 16 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:23,480 in John U's office. At Berkeley Law School at this very moment. Where 17 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:26,560 where is John is he can be? Is he listening in? No, 18 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:29,159 he's on his way. He may drop in and wave to the screen at 19 00:01:29,159 --> 00:01:32,040 some point during the hour. Well make sure he does no more than that. 20 00:01:32,079 --> 00:01:34,799 Please, let's not yet noon, So there's no reason for John you 21 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:38,159 to show up. And that voice you heard, which you may not even 22 00:01:38,359 --> 00:01:44,760 remember or recognize, because the voice of my co Recochet co founder Peter Robinson, 23 00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:51,799 who has been on I think quite literally an odyssey theater the longest. 24 00:01:52,359 --> 00:01:56,319 We set our youngest off to college as COVID was hitting. So this is 25 00:01:56,359 --> 00:02:00,519 the first summer when the world has been open since we became empty nesters. 26 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:05,200 And we traveled. My wife kept saying, what do we do this? 27 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:07,280 And I in the winter, I say yeah, yeah, yeah, whatever, 28 00:02:07,319 --> 00:02:09,879 fine, and lo and behold she stitched it all together. We traveled 29 00:02:09,879 --> 00:02:15,039 more than we ever had before in our married lives. Wyoming, New York, 30 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:20,319 Greece, to which I'll return in just a moment. Back to New 31 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:23,639 York, out to the Hamptons, and then a week up in Tahoe which 32 00:02:23,719 --> 00:02:31,360 just ended yesterday. Damn, Grease was fascinating. This is where the Odyssey 33 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:35,280 comes in that rob was referring to. We spent a day in Athens and 34 00:02:35,319 --> 00:02:42,400 went up to the top of the Acropolis, confusing it with apocalypse for reasons 35 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:45,039 it will become clear in just a moment, and often here's grease. Was 36 00:02:45,039 --> 00:02:49,240 fascinating because it's Greece, of course, but also because it's a remarkable place 37 00:02:49,879 --> 00:02:54,199 to be an American. Off in the distance there was an aircraft carrier visible, 38 00:02:54,879 --> 00:02:58,919 and the guide said, yes, yes, of course, that's one 39 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:05,879 of yours. Interesting. Interesting, we have an aircraft carrier you can see 40 00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:10,479 in the Mediterranean from the top of the acropolis. The Brits have two, 41 00:03:12,199 --> 00:03:15,599 the French have one. We have eleven, and one of them sails the 42 00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:20,639 Mediterranean ought more than one from time to time. Then off to the little 43 00:03:20,639 --> 00:03:25,080 tiny island of Potmos, which is much closer to Turkey. It's just two 44 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:29,199 miles off the coast of Turkey than it is to the mainland, which is 45 00:03:29,199 --> 00:03:32,599 about one hundred and fifty miles away. And there we were staying with very 46 00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:40,479 good friends, lovely wonderful people, both of Greek background, and we met 47 00:03:40,599 --> 00:03:45,639 It turns out that we four were among the few Americans on the island, 48 00:03:46,439 --> 00:03:51,199 so again and again and again. It was Europeans, the European view of 49 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:55,240 the United States. And there were several older people there who were very pro 50 00:03:55,319 --> 00:04:00,039 American, very pro American, because they could remember remember the help that Harry 51 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:03,840 Truman. They were children, but they could remember the help that Harry Truman 52 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:09,360 gave them after the war, when there was a communist insurgency in the north 53 00:04:09,439 --> 00:04:13,919 of the country and a civil war and we helped the good guys win. 54 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:17,759 That was remarkable that there are still people that was such an event in Greece, 55 00:04:18,319 --> 00:04:23,319 civil war, people being killed, that people who were children at the 56 00:04:23,319 --> 00:04:27,759 time remember it and remain grateful. And then, of course, well the 57 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:30,240 presidential politics came up again and again. I was not able to enlighten them 58 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:35,519 because I'm as confused as anybody could be. But Ukraine came up again and 59 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:42,199 again, and the basic European attitude was, you know, we can't fix 60 00:04:42,279 --> 00:04:48,639 this. When are you going to theory for granted that they would be helped. 61 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:50,120 No, well, no, no, no, no, excuse me, 62 00:04:50,199 --> 00:04:56,160 I have to say that wasn't this was this was a conversation with a 63 00:04:56,240 --> 00:05:03,000 Frenchman an Italian and Frenchman Italian. And then there was an American who was 64 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:06,279 just listening and smiling as I took all this in because he knew what was 65 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:11,439 well, he knew and he knew the European but they simply took it for 66 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:16,319 granted that it was our job. So which is very strange because if I 67 00:05:16,399 --> 00:05:21,240 have to say, in terms of Ukraine, the French and the Italians, 68 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:27,480 and especially the Germans, and ultra especially the English, I should say the 69 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:32,399 British are stepping forward and showing the kind of leadership that we have been wanting 70 00:05:32,399 --> 00:05:36,120 them to show, and the kind of commitment to defense, a defense build 71 00:05:36,199 --> 00:05:40,480 up, in defense buying and defense whatever that we wanted them to show. 72 00:05:40,879 --> 00:05:45,800 In the light of Ukraine. Well, they are stepping forward and beginning to 73 00:05:45,879 --> 00:05:48,279 show a little bit of what we want them to show. The Germans talk 74 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:51,800 a good game, the English actually play a good game, but they're all 75 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:58,120 two or three steps behind us. We're right behind you. You go first, 76 00:05:58,519 --> 00:06:02,959 you provide the material real and weapons and advice and intelligence that they really 77 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:06,079 really need, and then we'll come along and fill in as best we can. 78 00:06:06,399 --> 00:06:11,639 Is roughly roughly the attitude, excuse me, roughly the case. I 79 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:15,720 think that's a that's a fair representation of the case. Anyway, I suppose 80 00:06:15,759 --> 00:06:19,120 this is a segue into the debate. We have Vivic Ramaswami saying we should 81 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:23,079 get out of Ukraine. We have Nikki Haley and others saying no, don't 82 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:26,319 be ridiculous, you have I love Nikki. I don't know why that. 83 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:29,639 It's not in itself an especially memorable line, but it was a good one 84 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:32,360 turning to Vivic and saying, you have no experience in foreign policy, and 85 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:36,439 it shows. All I can tell you is on this little fly speck of 86 00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:44,600 an island where this at the top of the island is a monastery that has 87 00:06:44,639 --> 00:06:49,439 stood there since ten eighty eight. Now, the Byzantine Emperor John Commemnus the 88 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:54,000 second I'm sure I have that wrong, gave the island. I don't think 89 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:58,680 what's the second. I think it was. Actually there's a museum in the 90 00:06:59,079 --> 00:07:04,120 monastery where with this long scroll in Byzantine Greek, which is signed at the 91 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:08,120 bottom in red, only the emperor could sign and read, we were told, 92 00:07:08,319 --> 00:07:11,720 and there's an actual signature of the of the Emperor of the day from 93 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:16,720 ten eighty eight, and that the island to this day, I was told, 94 00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:20,439 retains a special legal status within Greece. It's a kind of state within 95 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:24,920 the state. Technically speaking, it's the monastery that runs the whole island, 96 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:28,879 but it has very thick walls. It's served not only as a religious center, 97 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:31,040 but as a kind of fortress. So for nine hundred, almost a 98 00:07:31,079 --> 00:07:38,279 thousand years, this island has seen empires rise and fall and pirates attack. 99 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:44,600 Yet and of course, seven hundred years before that, we have Saint John 100 00:07:45,759 --> 00:07:50,160 taking refuge in a cave. He's an exile during whose persecution Diocletian's persecution of 101 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:55,839 the Christians, and experiencing the vision that he then writes as the Book of 102 00:07:55,959 --> 00:07:59,800 Revelation. So it's a fly speck of an island, but the sense of 103 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:05,439 I don't know, talking about Ukraine, talking about American presidential politics, you 104 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:11,519 get the feeling that the present is only a very thin layer on mound after 105 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:16,560 mound after mound of history of human There's nothing cooler, I think, historically 106 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:22,279 than the Mediterranean. All around, every single country that rings that, every 107 00:08:22,319 --> 00:08:26,439 single island in it is just riveting. And can we just I hate to 108 00:08:26,439 --> 00:08:28,920 do this, can we just put a pin in that? Briefly, of 109 00:08:28,959 --> 00:08:33,639 course, we're gonna get back to Mediterranean talk. Although it might make you 110 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:37,759 sleepy, and if it makes you sleepy, you got to be thinking about 111 00:08:37,799 --> 00:08:41,039 how can I sleep better? 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Henry's been here before, we're welcoming back. 137 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:26,919 He's a Washington Post columnists senior fellow at the Ethics and Public Policy Center. 138 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:31,600 Listeners need to check out his newly launched podcast series Beyond the Polls, which 139 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:37,159 I'm sure is going to be burning up for the next nine months, and 140 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:39,919 that is available of course here on the ricosche Audio Network. All you got 141 00:10:39,919 --> 00:10:43,919 to do is go to Rickie Auto Network and subscribe to it and you will 142 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:50,639 get it. I think every week Henry can illuminate me on that. Welcome, 143 00:10:50,879 --> 00:10:54,480 Henry Olson, Welcome back to the podcast. Thanks for having me back. 144 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:58,519 Henry, give us again once again the name of the of your podcast, 145 00:10:58,559 --> 00:11:01,759 your campaign podcast, which is going to be you're going to be recording 146 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:05,000 from now until somebody wins the darn thing. Yeah, well, it's called 147 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:09,720 Beyond the Polls. Beyond the Polls. Okay, right, there's nothing beyond 148 00:11:09,759 --> 00:11:16,320 the polls, Henry, what are you talking about? Well, I my 149 00:11:16,399 --> 00:11:22,399 goal here is to evoke thoughts of the original Star Trek, and every episode 150 00:11:22,639 --> 00:11:26,600 we're going to reach for the stars and venture beyond the polls, discovered a 151 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:33,840 new civilization. Let's hope it's every other week until Thanksgiving. Every other week, 152 00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:37,320 alright, when enough is going to be happening that I think we can 153 00:11:37,399 --> 00:11:43,399 justify listener audience for a weekly podcast, and then it will be weekly all 154 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:48,600 the way through to election to the end. Okay, so it kicked off. 155 00:11:48,759 --> 00:11:52,200 Let's just I mean, I know, if it's been skirmishing and yelling 156 00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:54,120 and screaming and tweeting and retweeting and all that stuff. But really it just 157 00:11:54,240 --> 00:12:01,440 kicked off this week the Republican primary fight. And I'll just give you my 158 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:03,879 impression. You tell me how wrong I am. If you shut your eyes 159 00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:05,720 or you didn't shut your eyes, you open your eyes, and you just 160 00:12:07,919 --> 00:12:13,519 ignored the big orange elephant not in the room, and you just looked at 161 00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:20,399 that dais. Those are the Republicans running for president. Assuming all the Republicans 162 00:12:20,519 --> 00:12:24,240 running for president were on that days, it was a pretty good lineup. 163 00:12:24,279 --> 00:12:28,360 I mean, some I like, some I don't like. Some of I 164 00:12:28,399 --> 00:12:33,360 want to be presidents. Would I'm not so crazy about. But by all, 165 00:12:33,399 --> 00:12:37,039 these were not the seven Dwarves. These were not also rans. These 166 00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:41,759 were like some accomplished men and women up there. What am I missing? 167 00:12:41,519 --> 00:12:46,399 You're not missing anything, you know that. Obviously some are stronger than others, 168 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:52,399 and some are in better position or more experienced than others. But every 169 00:12:52,399 --> 00:12:56,960 one of them had a debate moment, even if some of them were small 170 00:12:56,039 --> 00:13:01,559 moments and others were big moments. And I think the real weak sisters, 171 00:13:01,559 --> 00:13:05,720 she used the old fashioned phrase, were weeded out. You know, we 172 00:13:05,759 --> 00:13:11,559 didn't have a Perry Johnson or Larry Elder, Ryan Brinkley. Those people weren't 173 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:16,320 on stage, and it really showed there was no Mary Anne Williamson moment to 174 00:13:16,399 --> 00:13:20,200 take it from the bottom up, so to speak. Talking of weeding out, 175 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:24,919 can we also say that by the end of the debate there really was 176 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:33,039 no longer any conceivable justification for Asa Hutchinson, a good, kindly accomplished man 177 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:37,399 but not going to be president and not adding anything to the race. Or 178 00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:43,200 for Doug Bergham, a tremendously impressive businessman to find governor, a major figure 179 00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:46,960 in the state of North Dakota, but this is not his moment. He 180 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:52,399 started at the wrong level. Senate maybe presidency four years from now, cabinet 181 00:13:52,399 --> 00:13:56,519 position in the meantime, those two should drop out today. Fair So I'll 182 00:13:56,559 --> 00:14:05,279 agree with Asa Hutchinson. He wins the Jim Gilmour Award for the irrelevant. 183 00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:11,440 The only reason I'm not one hundred percent agreeing with Bergham is the guy tore 184 00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:16,720 his achilles tendon that day. So now, if I had the physical stamina 185 00:14:16,799 --> 00:14:20,279 to rip my achilles tendon and show up and not be completely zoned out on 186 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:24,600 painkillers, I would want to be winnowed into the next round. So I 187 00:14:24,679 --> 00:14:28,240 don't think he's going to win. But if he's willing to spend ten million 188 00:14:28,279 --> 00:14:31,799 dollars of his own money and which is nothing to him, apparently at least 189 00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:35,639 a billionaire, right, yeah, he says he's only a cent a millionaire, 190 00:14:35,679 --> 00:14:41,039 you know. So so my my goal is not my proposed to him 191 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:43,600 is Okay, you're not a billionaire, you say you're sent a millionaire. 192 00:14:43,639 --> 00:14:48,639 Give me the difference you Actually, I won't call it even. But yeah, 193 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:52,639 I don't think he's going to be president. But the fact is we 194 00:14:52,679 --> 00:14:56,600 don't know whether he would be a better performer but for the personal accident. 195 00:14:56,679 --> 00:14:58,759 So let's see how he goes in a second. Okay, next one up, 196 00:14:58,799 --> 00:15:01,720 if I may working my way up from the bottom, and then Steve 197 00:15:01,759 --> 00:15:05,639 Hayward has to come in when we get to the really tricky bits. But 198 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:09,080 this is a question I have to ask, even though it breaks my heart. 199 00:15:11,039 --> 00:15:18,120 Tim Scott, whom I find enormously appealing, impressive in all kinds of 200 00:15:18,159 --> 00:15:22,399 ways, But if he couldn't find a moment to break out in that debate, 201 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:30,039 is it over for Tim Scott over? No, Because anybody with thirty 202 00:15:30,039 --> 00:15:35,799 million dollars of super pac money and a personal story that has excited you. 203 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:41,919 Yes, is not over given me? Is what you mean? Henry especially 204 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:50,159 is that, look, this was unbelievably weak, that this should have been 205 00:15:50,159 --> 00:15:52,600 a moment, where as you say he could have found a moment. The 206 00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:58,759 Washington Post IPSOS five thirty eight joint poll that came out yesterday I had everybody 207 00:16:00,039 --> 00:16:04,240 having some extreme reaction. Some people was negative, like Hutchinson said they lost 208 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:08,600 the debate. Some people were positive on that, like DeSantis or Nicky Haley. 209 00:16:08,799 --> 00:16:14,600 Scott was notable that he had neither positive nor negative strong react. He 210 00:16:14,679 --> 00:16:18,679 was kind of like, you know, to borrow from Mario Cuomo talking about 211 00:16:18,679 --> 00:16:22,879 Walter Mondale nineteen eighty four. He was the Polenta of this debate. Now, 212 00:16:23,279 --> 00:16:27,559 you know Cuomo after the Mondale campaign said, well, that's kind of 213 00:16:27,559 --> 00:16:32,480 an insulnce. No, Polenta's nourishing, it's a stap ball. No, 214 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:37,080 it's bland. That's what he meant to Scott was. And you can suffer 215 00:16:37,799 --> 00:16:42,080 problems like the vague Ramaswami, who I'm sure we'll talk about if you show 216 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:48,600 some charisma. But the worst thing in a debate format like this is to 217 00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:52,360 be planned and Tim Scott was blander than tapioca, blander than tapioca. I'll 218 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:55,480 jump inner, Henry, and if we have time. By the way, 219 00:16:55,519 --> 00:16:57,320 Henry, I do need to do a Maya kulpa. You were right about 220 00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:00,279 the pitch clock in baseball, and I was wrong, but maybe later, 221 00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:07,839 so acts let's do Vivek. By the way, I understand that's the correct 222 00:17:07,839 --> 00:17:11,400 pronunciation of his name is Vivek, which means it's only a matter of time 223 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:14,880 before Trump or somebody calls him fake Vavec. It seems to me that's obvious. 224 00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:18,240 I'm getting. I'm sort of getting up to the Trumpian idiom of campaigning. 225 00:17:18,319 --> 00:17:23,559 As you know, Republicans always flirt with the novelty candidate, the outsider 226 00:17:23,599 --> 00:17:26,839 who's even outside of politics, going back at least to Pat you Cannon ninety 227 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:30,680 two, and often they're front runners for a while, you know, Herman 228 00:17:30,839 --> 00:17:34,559 Kane and twenty twelve and Carson Trump the ultimate outsider, right, And it 229 00:17:34,559 --> 00:17:38,319 looks to me like Vivek is this year's novelty candidate that people are going to 230 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:41,960 get excited about and then he's going to fade. Is there a scenario in 231 00:17:42,039 --> 00:17:47,519 which that pattern is going to break this time? And he's actually gonna rank 232 00:17:47,559 --> 00:17:52,680 a series run for it. So here's the thing. I tend to agree 233 00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:56,599 with you that Vvek is this year's novelty candidate. I like that, you 234 00:17:56,599 --> 00:18:00,880 know that that approach of categorizing him. But the thing to understand about the 235 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:06,480 Republican primaries, there's basically three types of voters. The voters who will always 236 00:18:06,559 --> 00:18:08,079 vote for Trump and the voters who will never vote for Trump, and the 237 00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:11,880 voters who could go either way. The people who could go either way right 238 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:15,799 now are splitting overwhelmingly for Trump. But that's the sweet spot. So the 239 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:22,240 question for me is can Vevey get the attention of the people who will never 240 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:26,559 vote for Trump? And the answer is pretty much no, because those are 241 00:18:26,759 --> 00:18:30,319 the remnants of the moderate Bowldguard Reagan night Wing. They want a Mike Pence 242 00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:34,359 and Nicky Haley at Tim Scott. Yes, Peter raises his hands, congratulations. 243 00:18:34,799 --> 00:18:41,559 You are a demographic subgroup. You know you are highly likely not to 244 00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:47,319 want to back Veg because he is not what you are or what you want. 245 00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:49,920 And then you've got the Trumpians And I could see the Trumpians liking him, 246 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:55,119 but they'll never abandon Donald Trump. So the question is, does vaveg 247 00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:59,039 Ramaswamy have a shot to basically shoot up the middle and get fifty percent of 248 00:18:59,079 --> 00:19:03,200 the people who can go either way against the competition from Ronde Siantis and everybody 249 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:07,000 else. And I just don't see it. There was a line I feel 250 00:19:07,039 --> 00:19:11,119 bad because it's such a good line, and I did not note whose line 251 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:15,279 it was. Anyway, was in my Twitter feed and somebody said, somebody 252 00:19:15,279 --> 00:19:18,200 wrote this, and I thought that's it. Vec was new at the beginning 253 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:22,319 of the debate, but old by the time it ended. Yeah, that's 254 00:19:22,519 --> 00:19:26,480 sure. Yeah, in other words, his manner. I actually i'd like 255 00:19:26,519 --> 00:19:32,799 to ask just pause on this for one moment, because I found him insufferable 256 00:19:33,759 --> 00:19:37,079 almost from the beginning, but certainly by the end, just in personal not 257 00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:41,720 even at the policy level, where I guess I like about half of what 258 00:19:41,759 --> 00:19:44,279 he says or two thirds of what he But even before you get to that, 259 00:19:44,799 --> 00:19:48,359 I just thought, this man is a walking mouth. We've all met, 260 00:19:48,519 --> 00:19:52,200 We've all run into this apple polisher in class, this move trying to 261 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:59,640 move, just annoying human being. And yet I was watching the debate with 262 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:03,720 friends, good friends, and a couple of them just love THEVEC. So 263 00:20:03,759 --> 00:20:07,839 we had this strange this guy really want the Barbell reaction? Love him or 264 00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:11,960 hate him? What does that portend, if anything, for his political standing? 265 00:20:12,039 --> 00:20:15,200 Henry? Well, you know the thing is it all depends on who 266 00:20:15,279 --> 00:20:18,680 hates him, you know, is that if the people who hate him are 267 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:22,680 the people who are never going to vote for him anyway, it's actually a 268 00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:26,599 good reaction because you know, you've alienated the people. You drive people from 269 00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:32,599 moderately against you to passionately against you. But where he needs a breakout moment, 270 00:20:32,599 --> 00:20:36,480 and that means he needs fans. And if getting enemies means you get 271 00:20:36,559 --> 00:20:40,519 fans, and that's the trade off. But if what it is is the 272 00:20:40,599 --> 00:20:42,640 sort of people who would vote for him, maybe the sort of people who 273 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:47,640 would say I like Trump, I'm looking for an alternative to Trump, they're 274 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:49,759 kind of looking at the Santa's kind of looking at Scott, and then they 275 00:20:49,759 --> 00:20:53,279 look at the vague and their reaction is, oh, well that's death. 276 00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:57,720 Now. Typical Peter to ask one of these style questions, right, which 277 00:20:57,799 --> 00:21:03,000 broad But I'm going to ask another one, Henry. Now, I didn't 278 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:04,799 watch the debate because I'm a snob. And if it ain't Lincoln and Douglas 279 00:21:04,799 --> 00:21:07,799 in that format. I'm not showing up, but I've read a lot of 280 00:21:07,799 --> 00:21:11,920 the accounts. I'm I'm only asking you a dumb question, except you'll give 281 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:15,400 a smart answer to it. Who won or who do you think helped themselves 282 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:22,039 the most? And why? So? I think I actually tend to agree 283 00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:25,200 with the results of the poll that I mentioned, which is I think de 284 00:21:25,279 --> 00:21:29,240 Santis helped himself a lot. I think he helped himself a lot by being 285 00:21:29,279 --> 00:21:34,359 both forceful and being a reasonable adult in the room. I think Ramaswamy may 286 00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:38,440 have helped himself on the margin because people are talking about it. Again, 287 00:21:38,799 --> 00:21:41,880 the worst thing in the world in a debate like this is to be blander 288 00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:51,599 than tapioca. He was spicier than let's just say cheat him myself to continue. 289 00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:57,200 Yeah, ethnic humor is welcome on this podcast. Hey, he's not 290 00:21:57,319 --> 00:22:00,680 somebody who people are forgetting about, so to that extent it helps him. 291 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:06,119 He's got a huge road to a huge mountain decline. But that's not bad. 292 00:22:06,319 --> 00:22:08,640 And I think Nicky Haley really helped herself, you know, is that 293 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:15,279 I think Haley came across as a person who is knowledgeable, a person who 294 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:25,119 sounds like an executive who can make decisions, and she is more to the 295 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:29,599 old guard case than the center of the Republican Party once. But to the 296 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:34,759 extent that they want a fighter who's not irrational, she fits on that. 297 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:38,640 So. You know, the rumor that was floated by the Haley campaign is 298 00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:44,880 that they had a great online fundraising night in the twenty four hours after the 299 00:22:45,319 --> 00:22:48,359 campaign. You know, great for the Haley campaign, maybe half a million 300 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:51,799 dollars in one night. Now, it's not like their Trump's money machine, 301 00:22:52,599 --> 00:22:55,279 but I think Haley helped herself as well. Yeah, all right, one 302 00:22:55,319 --> 00:23:00,920 more and then I'll yield floor thought experiment. If I've had shown up, 303 00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:07,680 obviously, it will be a very different debate. H speculate on exactly how 304 00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:10,680 different it would have been, and is that good or bad for the rest 305 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:14,480 of the field. I'm my head is just thinking we're in two parallel universes 306 00:23:14,559 --> 00:23:17,519 right now, between Trump and the rest of the field, which looks more 307 00:23:17,599 --> 00:23:23,200 normal this abnormal world we've been in since twenty sixteen. Yeah, you know, 308 00:23:25,039 --> 00:23:26,960 Look, I if Trump were the debate, everything would be about Trump, 309 00:23:27,039 --> 00:23:30,720 because if Trump is in the room, it's always all about Trump. 310 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:33,039 The one thing that I know would have happened, is you would have had 311 00:23:33,079 --> 00:23:41,279 in Mike Pens versus Donald Trump. Yes, and you know, I think 312 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:44,720 rightly. You know, I was reading online all I worked right for the 313 00:23:44,759 --> 00:23:51,200 Washington Post, and you know I was with conservative commentators live blogging the debate 314 00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:53,759 and even they were asking no questions about Trump and online on Twitter, you 315 00:23:53,799 --> 00:23:56,960 know, where it's much more left wing. It was where There's no question 316 00:23:56,440 --> 00:24:03,279 that's what Republican voters want. They don't want to Caitlyn Collins, congratulations. 317 00:24:03,279 --> 00:24:06,480 I'm going to represent the Acela Corridor and all my questions I actually want to 318 00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:11,920 talk about them. Republicans are focused on rightly or wrongly, but there's no 319 00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:15,160 way we could have avoided on Mike Pence versus Donald Trump. Yeah, and 320 00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:22,839 I don't think Donald Trump wants that. I think as long as Mike Pence 321 00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:29,359 is the reason Pence is so crucial in this and why I hope someday he 322 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:33,119 will stand up even more than he did on the other night, is Mike 323 00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:37,920 Pence is the only person who can say along with Donald Trump, I lost 324 00:24:38,799 --> 00:24:45,440 right and say I was your running mate, I wanted to win. I 325 00:24:45,839 --> 00:24:52,079 backed you, you backed me, and we It wasn't all square, but 326 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:59,720 we lost fair and that's why Donald you asked me, you put them you 327 00:24:59,759 --> 00:25:03,160 put yourself above the constitution because literally, you know what Trump is doing in 328 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:06,240 denying that he ever asked Mike to do that is basically playing word games. 329 00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:10,079 No. I never used the word constitution saying that you should put yourself above 330 00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:12,160 the Constitution. I said you should interpret the Constitution. And I said that 331 00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:15,799 the word or meaning in some bizarre way. Yeah, which means that he 332 00:25:15,839 --> 00:25:22,359 can be able to a professor at Harvard now. But yeah, I don't 333 00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:26,480 think Donald Trump wants that because so that fraud narrative is punctured, right, 334 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:32,799 Yeah, Republicans will start looking elsewhere. So do you think that? I 335 00:25:32,799 --> 00:25:33,799 mean, I've got a bunch of questions, but I want to because you 336 00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:37,519 gotta be talking about Pence, because I always I've been saying for a year 337 00:25:37,559 --> 00:25:41,720 that Pence is the silver bullet. Pence is I think, the only, 338 00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:48,240 maybe the only living American, certainly the only living American in politics who has 339 00:25:48,279 --> 00:25:55,359 emerged from his relationship with Donald Trump with a shred of his integrity and honor 340 00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:57,599 and manliness. If you really want to get right down to it, intact, 341 00:26:00,839 --> 00:26:04,039 does Donald is Donald Trump got to show up at any of these debates. 342 00:26:04,279 --> 00:26:07,960 I don't think Donald Trump will show up at a debate unless one of 343 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:12,160 two things had I think he will show up if he starts to plumb it. 344 00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:17,119 Yeah, you know, there's this assumption in the media, and it 345 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:19,079 may be right. You know, I just have to recognize that this is 346 00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:23,200 something in the media that nothing can be done to bring Donald Trump down until 347 00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:26,759 you start acting like the media has for the last seven years and attacking Donald 348 00:26:26,759 --> 00:26:30,079 Trump. I actually don't agree with that. You know, I think that 349 00:26:30,319 --> 00:26:34,400 we in the Republican Party, to talk to Republican electors, you actually have 350 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:38,000 to kind of be more sorry than hey, than than hurt phone. You 351 00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:41,920 know, hey, you know sorry, this is happening to you. So 352 00:26:42,319 --> 00:26:48,680 if I were going to deliver the nuclear submarine that'll hit st. Trump below 353 00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:52,519 the waterline, I will do it after Thanksgiving, not when the media wants 354 00:26:52,519 --> 00:26:57,480 me to, which is direct. But if that you know, there were 355 00:26:57,559 --> 00:27:03,680 apparently thirteen million people who were watching the you know, I'm sure disproportionately Republican 356 00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:07,759 primary and caucus stores. If you start to see Trump's numbers go down, 357 00:27:07,799 --> 00:27:11,799 and then after the second debate, you start to see Trump numbers gone down, 358 00:27:11,039 --> 00:27:14,720 then I think Trump comes back. The only other way I see Trump 359 00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:18,759 going on the debate is one and if it does narrow to a two person 360 00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:22,720 rates, then I think he comes back, because if it narrows to a 361 00:27:22,759 --> 00:27:26,640 two person rates, he can lose it. Can I ask you a larger 362 00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:29,319 question for the Republican parties that you mentioned it, because it always seemed to 363 00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:32,799 me the Republican you know, everybody in the party always says, my party's 364 00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:36,680 fill with stupid people, but we can lose, We can bumble any opportunity, 365 00:27:36,759 --> 00:27:40,720 right, Republicans never miss the opportunity to miss the opportunity. But I'm 366 00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:44,319 old, right, I can remember people running for president, and I cannot 367 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:52,680 remember, as I said, the beginning of dais with four distinguished governors ex 368 00:27:52,759 --> 00:27:56,200 governors of some pretty important states, Mike Pant's governor by VP, Nikky Haley 369 00:27:56,240 --> 00:28:02,519 governor, Chris Christy governor, Roder Sanna's governor, burg of governor. And 370 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:15,039 this is exactly what Republicans say they want chief executives, conservative chief executives in 371 00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:22,480 various different states. Are the Republicans going to blow this because they're gonna say, 372 00:28:22,519 --> 00:28:27,400 look, we got this a list here and we're gonna go for uh 373 00:28:27,839 --> 00:28:32,240 something else. I mean, how likely is it the Republicans are just going 374 00:28:32,279 --> 00:28:37,839 to blow this opportunity? Added quick addendum to Rob's observation about the impressive standing 375 00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:41,799 of those people. It included a woman, It included two East Asians, 376 00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:47,960 and it included an African American. All right, now, our Republicans been 377 00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:52,880 last week in Iowa, look asking evangelicals, you know where do they stand? 378 00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:55,359 My column about that will come out, so I'm not going to scoop 379 00:28:55,480 --> 00:29:00,559 myself. What i will say is one person was aware of their county to 380 00:29:00,599 --> 00:29:06,119 a degree that I didn't expect. They actually knew that Trump had finished fourth 381 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:11,079 in that county in twenty sixteen, and they said correctly, and he finished 382 00:29:11,119 --> 00:29:17,359 behind two Latinos in a black men. So, in other words, in 383 00:29:18,359 --> 00:29:25,200 Iowa, in Iowa, right, you could remember Cruise, Rubio and Carson 384 00:29:25,839 --> 00:29:32,200 and now Scott, Scott and Ramaswamy and Haley. The Republican Party electorate has 385 00:29:32,279 --> 00:29:37,279 yet to nominate a non white, but it continues to show itself very open 386 00:29:37,839 --> 00:29:42,319 to non whites in a way that the Democrats, with the exception of Barack 387 00:29:42,319 --> 00:29:48,359 Obama, has yet to show. So. With that. What I would 388 00:29:48,359 --> 00:29:52,240 do is slightly dispute your premise, Rock, which is I don't think the 389 00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:59,359 middle voter wants chief executive. I think they want I think they are not 390 00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:03,480 certain if they want somebody with experience or not that you know, I remember 391 00:30:03,599 --> 00:30:07,640 seeing in the last cycle that you know, if you if you were running 392 00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:14,799 for Congress in a Republican seed, the thing to do is say that you 393 00:30:14,799 --> 00:30:21,200 were a maga fighter in an outsider not having political experience was a plus to 394 00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:25,079 the swing vote of the campaign. It is not a plus to the old 395 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:30,680 establishment Republican. But you know, news flash, the establishment Republican is now 396 00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:33,960 a minority in the Republican voting primary process in most places, and especially in 397 00:30:34,039 --> 00:30:40,680 deep red places. So so I dispute the premise in that way. The 398 00:30:40,799 --> 00:30:44,160 larger question I was can Republicans blow it? Well? Look, my view 399 00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:51,440 is that it has been for a while that both parties bases continue to push 400 00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:56,880 themselves to victory and going back to nineteen ninety four, by pointing out the 401 00:30:56,920 --> 00:31:00,720 overreach of their opponent, and then they overreach themselves. It's a continuing match 402 00:31:00,839 --> 00:31:04,359 of tennis, where as soon as you break serve, you double fault and 403 00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:10,599 give it back to the the Democrats do it, you know. And so 404 00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:15,640 this is a political version to switch metaphors of who wins the irresistible force or 405 00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:22,000 the immovable object, really which one stops being less incompetent. And we've got 406 00:31:22,319 --> 00:31:26,279 a president with a forty one point six percent job approval rating. Biden is 407 00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:33,720 less approved of today than Donald Trump was at an identical stage in his presidency. 408 00:31:33,559 --> 00:31:40,039 No president in history has one reelection with a job approval rating this love 409 00:31:41,359 --> 00:31:47,359 he gets the benefit of running against somebody if the nominee who is equally unpopular. 410 00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:51,640 And what this means is we run of twenty sixteen. In twenty sixteen, 411 00:31:52,119 --> 00:31:55,680 the election came down to the eighteen percent of Americans who didn't like either 412 00:31:55,799 --> 00:31:59,599 candidate, and they've broken the last week to Trump. I call them double 413 00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:05,079 doubt. We now have over a fifth of Americans already who don't like either 414 00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:08,279 of the two leading candidates. So, yeah, the Democrats can promote this 415 00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:15,359 and the Republicans can blow it. So so what you're saying is that that 416 00:32:15,519 --> 00:32:20,079 Republicans will have to work very hard to lose this election, and they're already 417 00:32:20,119 --> 00:32:24,119 at it. So that's a very good Peter so Henry, by the way, 418 00:32:24,119 --> 00:32:29,200 you certainly win a special award for metaphor is the most the richest metaphors. 419 00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:36,039 In ten minutes, we had polenta, chicken massala. Yeah, alright, 420 00:32:36,079 --> 00:32:38,319 alright, So back to the debate. One or two more questions about 421 00:32:38,319 --> 00:32:42,240 the debate, if I may, before we get to and Steve I think 422 00:32:42,279 --> 00:32:45,920 wants to ask about the opposition Joe Biden and so forth. Chris Christie, 423 00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:51,680 you mentioned a moment ago that the press wants somebody to run against Donald Trump, 424 00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:55,279 just the way the press wants him to do so, and Chris Christie's 425 00:32:55,839 --> 00:33:01,279 doing that, And as far as I can tell getting nowhere, I actually 426 00:33:01,279 --> 00:33:06,559 thought Chris Christie had two of the finer moments during the debate. One of 427 00:33:06,599 --> 00:33:09,720 the questions was did Mike Pence do the right thing? On January sixth, 428 00:33:09,799 --> 00:33:15,960 and Ron des Sandis gave this excruciatingly long answer in which he tried to change 429 00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:20,319 the subject and Brett Baer wouldn't let him do it, and then he sort 430 00:33:20,319 --> 00:33:22,559 of grudgingly said, yeah, he did the right thing. And then onto 431 00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:27,839 Chris Christie, who said, Mike Pence did the right thing and he deserves 432 00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:31,720 not just a grudging acceptance, but our gratitude. It was a beautiful answer. 433 00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:36,119 And then at the very end when Chris Christie got that cockam made me 434 00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:39,880 answer question from Martha McCallum about UFOs. If you were president, would you 435 00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:44,160 level with the people? And Chris Christie got a couple of jokes out of 436 00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:46,240 the UFOs and then he said its job of the president to level with the 437 00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:52,640 American people about everything. Beautiful. Okay, So I thought Chris Christie is 438 00:33:52,799 --> 00:33:58,160 really good at this game. He is a man of substance and experience, 439 00:33:59,119 --> 00:34:04,160 but he is positioned himself. There's nothing to him in this campaign. But 440 00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:10,000 he's an attack dog going after Donald Trump and he's getting nowhere? Is that 441 00:34:10,079 --> 00:34:16,159 correct? Or is he saving everything for New Hampshire? Well? I think 442 00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:22,559 this is like ten clover Field Lane. The fact is he John Goodman is 443 00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:30,760 a craze murderer and the Aliens invaded the earth. Both can be yeah, 444 00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:37,960 that Christie is not going he Mike Pants is the second least popular of the 445 00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:42,880 Republican nominee's. About fifty something percent of Republicans have favor of Impression and Chris 446 00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:45,960 Christie is the least popular. He's flip side of that he's like sixty five 447 00:34:46,039 --> 00:34:51,199 percent negative thirty something percent positive. So he is not going to be elected. 448 00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:55,840 The fact is Donald the swing voter is somebody who likes Donald Trump actively, 449 00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:02,559 thinks he was unfairly to targeted, thinks the election was probably stolen. 450 00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:07,960 Isn't concerned about January sixth, But they're willing to look somewhere else. So 451 00:35:07,079 --> 00:35:13,320 Chris Christie's not talking to that book. But Chris Christie is getting support among 452 00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:16,599 moderates and that means he could very well if De Santis fades, he could 453 00:35:16,679 --> 00:35:21,199 very well finished second to New Hampshire. All right, So this brings us 454 00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:27,559 to the big So Chris Christie going nowhere might finish second in New Hampshire if 455 00:35:27,599 --> 00:35:30,760 De Santis fades, which brings us to the big question we haven't addressed. 456 00:35:31,679 --> 00:35:39,280 As of two three months ago, DeSantis looked like overwhelmingly the likeliest opponent to 457 00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:45,599 Donald Trump and in a pretty good position to knock Trump off he went. 458 00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:52,480 He was re elected governor this past November by an enormous margin. He assembled, 459 00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:55,800 as far as I can tell, the most impressive collection of major donors 460 00:35:55,840 --> 00:36:00,119 he was getting. He had a meeting in what Palm Beach or West Palm 461 00:36:00,159 --> 00:36:04,559 of one hundred plus billionaires, as far as I could tell, is roughly 462 00:36:04,559 --> 00:36:09,000 what the guest list amounted to. And he seemed articulate and tough, and 463 00:36:09,119 --> 00:36:15,519 the general formula Donald Trump without the crazy seemed that made a lot of sense 464 00:36:15,559 --> 00:36:22,599 to a lot of us. And he's had nothing but trouble. Question one, 465 00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:27,880 how come? Question two? Did he did he turn himself? Did 466 00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:30,599 he turn himself in the campaign? Around? In the debate? I'll answer 467 00:36:30,639 --> 00:36:36,639 a question too first. I don't think Payne was in as bad a shape 468 00:36:36,639 --> 00:36:39,119 as people think. You know. Is the thing is I look back at 469 00:36:39,119 --> 00:36:45,800 the numbers, is that people tend not to move challengers immediately when they get 470 00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:50,199 into the race, you know. So you take a look, and Barack 471 00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:53,440 Obama and Bernie Sanders didn't suddenly jump up when they got in the race. 472 00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:58,880 Obama pretty much stayed level in national polls for months, even though he was 473 00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:04,119 gaining ground. And Iowa, so I think part of this is the national 474 00:37:04,159 --> 00:37:08,920 media's attempt to renominate Trump so that they can re elect Biden. So they're 475 00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:13,079 downplaying the Santists. And I think he had a very good debate. There 476 00:37:13,079 --> 00:37:17,039 are two snap poles I've seen that Santists was the person who was rated by 477 00:37:17,119 --> 00:37:22,880 viewers as having the best debate in the Washington Post five thirty eight episodes poll, 478 00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:27,199 and he was a snarrow second to the vague and a snap pole conducted 479 00:37:27,199 --> 00:37:30,119 by Teresa May's former polster James Johnson, who is now polling in the United 480 00:37:30,119 --> 00:37:32,840 States. So they're basically within the margin of air of each other a couple 481 00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:38,559 of points. He had a very good debate. I think that the larger 482 00:37:38,639 --> 00:37:42,840 question is why did a drop? And this gets to the question of who's 483 00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:45,639 the decider. Well, after it looked like Trump was a loser, and 484 00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:49,920 before all the indictments came down, the person in the middle, the person 485 00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:53,519 who likes Trump, is willing to consider someone else thought the Santists looked pretty 486 00:37:53,519 --> 00:37:59,440 good. And then the indictments come down, and that drives those people to 487 00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:05,519 want us or their their first choice for now. But then you have what 488 00:38:05,559 --> 00:38:07,400 Trump did. And Trump immediately went after de Santis, and he went after 489 00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:13,239 De Santis on the title notes. And the media doesn't want to notice that, 490 00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:19,960 but the fact is the Republican Party is not Orthodox Ryanite, not orthodox 491 00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:24,960 AEI to refer to my Nste's former employer on this question, they actually would 492 00:38:25,079 --> 00:38:30,679 rather raise payroll taxes and keep benefits. You know, I had a pull 493 00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:32,559 of twenty twenty Trump voters and I asked them, which of these two do 494 00:38:32,599 --> 00:38:37,199 you prefer, even if none is could exactly right, keep Social Security benefits 495 00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:43,000 level even if payroll taxes rise, or keep payroll taxes same even if benefits 496 00:38:43,039 --> 00:38:45,599 have to be got. Trump voters sixty three to thirty seven preferred the level 497 00:38:45,639 --> 00:38:51,239 benefit question. So I think that hurt a lot more to the voters at 498 00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:52,800 the Santas needs. And then you have the third thing, which is you 499 00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:57,719 know that the Santist I think did not have a great start to the campaign. 500 00:38:58,719 --> 00:39:02,320 But the first two things, it's the indictments and it's Trump's attacks on 501 00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:07,280 De Santis. But he's still He's still there. The fact is he is 502 00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:13,079 still in second in Iowa. He performed well in the debate. He is 503 00:39:13,119 --> 00:39:17,440 still in second. In South Carolina. He is second or third in New 504 00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:22,480 Hampshire, a much more moderate state. I saw poland Pennsylvania that had Trump 505 00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:27,840 won fifty seven percent there in twenty sixteen, He's only had by eighteen over 506 00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:30,400 De Santis. De Santis for everything that people are saying, is still the 507 00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:36,280 only standing alternative to Trumps? Did we just spend the last twenty minutes wasting 508 00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:38,280 our time? Is Trump going to be the nominee? Can even Ron De 509 00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:42,679 Santis take him down? Is there really an open endedness to this race or 510 00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:45,159 is it over Henry Well, there's a different queen being over and open ended. 511 00:39:45,159 --> 00:39:49,079 I would still say that there's a seventy percent. I would have said 512 00:39:49,119 --> 00:39:52,119 before the debate there's a seventy five percent chance Trump will be the nominee. 513 00:39:52,159 --> 00:39:55,400 I think I'm down to sixty five or seventy percent because De Santis and a 514 00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:59,880 couple other You know, if there's you know, the fact that Haley easily 515 00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:02,920 outperformed Tim Scott could be an odd game changer, you know, in the 516 00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:07,719 sense that Scott was gaining momentum. But if Scott can't perform well online television, 517 00:40:08,079 --> 00:40:12,840 time and time again, all of the ads, money in the air 518 00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:16,639 and in the world is not going to save him. He may be the 519 00:40:16,679 --> 00:40:20,519 sort of person who ends up at ten percent, which is where he's roughly 520 00:40:20,599 --> 00:40:23,079 follow right now. So I think it's still overwhelmingly favorite. The thing is, 521 00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:28,119 I'll tell you an anecdote that's going to make it into my piece, 522 00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:30,199 not scooping, but give you an indication. I'm sitting in the air talking 523 00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:36,199 with average Joe Republican evangelicals and we're talking, talking, talking. I say, 524 00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:37,920 one of the guys said, you know, we haven't had a chance 525 00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:40,599 to look at the Alternative show, and I said, oh, so you're 526 00:40:40,599 --> 00:40:45,360 going to watch the debate next week. They didn't know the debate was taking 527 00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:51,800 place. Yeah, the median primary voter did not tune into the debate. 528 00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:57,519 The median primary voter is not following the inslot. They will do it when 529 00:40:57,519 --> 00:41:00,320 the election starts to get closer, and that's when I don't know. Yeah, 530 00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:04,679 I see all of us political junkies, we follow these things at the 531 00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:07,159 gray level. And forget that point that you has made, Henry. But 532 00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:12,599 can I change the subject, in part because it turns out that DeSantis has 533 00:41:12,599 --> 00:41:15,599 swim in the polls. Happened almost immediately after I went down to Florida to 534 00:41:15,639 --> 00:41:20,679 spend a day talking to him. So it might be my fault without Ryan. 535 00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:23,519 Okay, I got it. You don't mean Paul Ryan. I know 536 00:41:23,559 --> 00:41:28,239 the Ryan you mean. All right, I want to talk about the other 537 00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:30,360 side of the street, the other team. You know, I remember doing 538 00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:35,079 research years ago and finding the story in the New York Times from around January 539 00:41:35,119 --> 00:41:37,639 first, nineteen sixty eight, where the chair of the Democratic Party said, 540 00:41:37,679 --> 00:41:40,880 we've got our nominee. It's Lynda Johnson. The Republicans are the ones who 541 00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:45,199 have all the problems. Well, we know how that story turned out. 542 00:41:45,679 --> 00:41:47,360 And so at this point in nineteen sixty seven, as you probably know, 543 00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:52,559 on the Republican side, George Romney wasn't tied or ahead of Richard Nixon. 544 00:41:53,199 --> 00:41:55,599 And so we know how that story turned out. So you know the old 545 00:41:55,599 --> 00:42:00,159 Mark Twain line that he actually never said that history doesn't repeat itself. It 546 00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:02,280 rhymes. I look at Biden and I say, he's going to pull a 547 00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:07,199 Lyndon Johnson or they're going to have to affect that kind of outcome. He's 548 00:42:07,199 --> 00:42:10,360 going to have to go. How likely do you think that is? And 549 00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:15,599 do you have one or two plausible scenarios about how that happens? Okay, 550 00:42:15,679 --> 00:42:20,159 So here one, everyone on the Democratic Party knows that he's too old. 551 00:42:22,639 --> 00:42:27,559 The polls show that Democratic voters. Yeah, but depending on the poll, 552 00:42:27,599 --> 00:42:30,519 between the third and a half of Democratic voters say he's too old. He's 553 00:42:30,559 --> 00:42:36,239 got two nobodies, and he can't break seventy percent in the polls. So 554 00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:44,519 here's my three scenarios. One is, the guy is eighty If Mitch McConnell 555 00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:51,599 can have a brain freeze on camera because of a health condition that's not necessarily 556 00:42:51,679 --> 00:42:57,000 debilitating, but reminds you that Mitch McConnell is eighty one years old, Joe 557 00:42:57,000 --> 00:43:04,840 Biden has that he's toes it just it's it is when George H. W. 558 00:43:05,119 --> 00:43:09,000 Bush got sick in Japan and threw on the dial, right, it 559 00:43:09,079 --> 00:43:14,760 wasn't a serious health risk, but it fed into a growing narrative that he 560 00:43:15,159 --> 00:43:20,679 was kind of not in control. Or when George Romney got brainwashed. George 561 00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:22,960 Romney got brainwashed. That's right. You never know what's going to happen. 562 00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:27,599 So that's the first scenario that I don't think is implausible. I'm not, 563 00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:30,400 you know, twenty percent chance that he has some sort of on camera, 564 00:43:30,599 --> 00:43:38,119 off camera health reverse that just can't be ignorant. Second thing, let's not 565 00:43:38,159 --> 00:43:43,440 talk about in nineteen sixty seven. Let's talk about in nineteen ninety one pp 566 00:43:43,519 --> 00:43:47,320 people in George H. W. Bush, right, got people who wanted 567 00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:52,159 an alternative to him. All of the people who thought they had a future 568 00:43:52,199 --> 00:43:55,320 in politics said no, I'm not taking on a sitting president after he doesn't 569 00:43:55,360 --> 00:44:01,480 want a war. You freaking nuts. And it takes a media person who 570 00:44:01,559 --> 00:44:06,000 wants to make a name for himself to jump in the race. So I 571 00:44:06,079 --> 00:44:10,079 look, and I say, where's this racist jip Puchanic. You're gonna say 572 00:44:10,159 --> 00:44:15,360 Rachel Maddow, aren't you. I've said Rachel madd out before. Are you? 573 00:44:15,599 --> 00:44:17,880 Maybe that hurt you because she would be the Well, if you listen 574 00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:22,840 to my podcast, you've heard me because I mentioned that's it. Yeah, 575 00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:24,719 but look, that's the sort of thing. I mean, she's probably making 576 00:44:24,719 --> 00:44:28,880 too much money. But what about an Ashy Valley. You know, somebody 577 00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:34,119 with some credibility in the progressive base who's thirty or forty years younger, who 578 00:44:34,199 --> 00:44:37,920 says, look, we just can't have Grandpa, you know, do this 579 00:44:38,039 --> 00:44:43,880 anymore. And you know what's the incentive. The fact is the Progressive Women 580 00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:47,480 of the Democratic Party has no obvious national leader for twenty twenty eight. It's 581 00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:52,320 not going to be the vice president because they never trust her to begin with. 582 00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:55,360 The shop As funny as it is, the real progressives don't trust Kamala 583 00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:59,760 Harris and Bernie and Elizabeth of Aged Now. So I look at this and 584 00:44:59,840 --> 00:45:05,159 s this is a huge market opportunity for an entrepreneur to come in and make 585 00:45:05,199 --> 00:45:10,519 themselves either the candidate or the list broker. And it just strikes me that 586 00:45:10,559 --> 00:45:14,840 when there's one hundred dollar bill on the ground, sometimes people ignore it and 587 00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:20,079 sometimes somebody picks it up. So the filing deadlines are in November, and 588 00:45:20,159 --> 00:45:22,079 so we've got two months for the path Buchanan scenario. And then you've got 589 00:45:22,079 --> 00:45:25,280 the third scenario, which is wildly implausible, but I like to tell it 590 00:45:27,199 --> 00:45:30,280 so, which is, let's say you're Joe Biden, your self aware, 591 00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:37,280 you know you're too old. Okay, let's say you are Joe Biden and 592 00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:40,519 yourself aware, and you also know that dropping out of the race will tear 593 00:45:40,599 --> 00:45:45,519 your party apart. Because Kamala hasn't established yourself. You can't clear the field. 594 00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:49,320 You'll have seven or eight candidate. You will have a race that makes 595 00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:54,679 the Republicans look like sesame strip. So what do you do? You freeze 596 00:45:54,679 --> 00:46:00,360 the field right right, you get the delarates and then on August first, 597 00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:04,760 after the Republicans have made your nomination, but three weeks before the convention, 598 00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:09,000 you say that a recent my doctor, my annual physical tells me that unfortunately 599 00:46:09,039 --> 00:46:15,440 my health is declined in the last sixty days. I didn't know. Yeah, 600 00:46:15,599 --> 00:46:19,199 And then what you do is try and stage manage a convention that is 601 00:46:19,239 --> 00:46:22,480 now completely staffed with your loyalists. So that is the implausible. But third 602 00:46:22,519 --> 00:46:27,760 way that this happens that they actually know he can't run again, and this 603 00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:34,079 is all kabuki theater, and that stage convention nominates whom well, I think 604 00:46:34,159 --> 00:46:37,320 that depends who they see as the nominee. If it's Trump, it might 605 00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:44,920 be somebody, right. And also you've been seeing this constant effort to try 606 00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:51,679 and reboot Kamala three point zero. I think Joe Biden would like to go 607 00:46:51,760 --> 00:46:57,880 out having endorsed a black female as his successor. But I see he has 608 00:46:57,960 --> 00:47:00,920 to be able to beat whoever it is. And so I think she's got 609 00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:07,440 like eight or nine months under this implausible but the last few years sailable to 610 00:47:07,519 --> 00:47:15,360 Hollywood scenario that you know, if she's sitting on July thirty first, and 611 00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:19,119 she hasn't turned it around in some way, then I think it's more likely 612 00:47:19,599 --> 00:47:22,679 that he goes in another direction in which case, you know, it could 613 00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:28,280 very well be that he gives a list of three or you know, I 614 00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:30,920 think if I were him and it wasn't going to be Kamala, I think 615 00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:37,400 he's got to choose between Whitmer and Newsome. The only reason that it's not 616 00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:39,599 a good idea to put both of them on the ticket is there's not a 617 00:47:39,639 --> 00:47:44,840 minority. But you know, if you say it's Newsome Witmer, Witmer Newsom, 618 00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:50,079 Newsom would probably not like that. I could see take it that way. 619 00:47:50,199 --> 00:47:53,960 So you take governor from the biggest state, which is twenty percent of 620 00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:58,159 it's needed, and the governor from the next day which is five or ten 621 00:47:58,199 --> 00:48:01,159 percent, and the informative president and all the super delegate. That's the way 622 00:48:01,199 --> 00:48:04,519 I would do it. So I know we got to rap Henry, but 623 00:48:04,599 --> 00:48:08,039 I just I just want to ask you this question. Are the Democrats in 624 00:48:08,079 --> 00:48:15,880 this ridiculous position right now because we in general and the politics, but the 625 00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:22,440 people at the top of the ticket treat the vice presidency like it's a marketing 626 00:48:22,559 --> 00:48:27,039 ploy rather than what it's supposed to be, which is somebody who could actually 627 00:48:27,039 --> 00:48:30,119 step into Put it this way, if if if Biden's vice president had been 628 00:48:30,159 --> 00:48:37,199 anyone competent or anybody you know, reasonably accomplished, he wouldn't be in this 629 00:48:37,239 --> 00:48:38,920 trouble. And the Democrats between in this trouble. Isn't this really just because 630 00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:44,239 they just treat this The second part of the ticket is kind of a way 631 00:48:44,239 --> 00:48:50,199 of you know, marketing and segmenting and too clever by half kind of audience 632 00:48:50,440 --> 00:48:52,920 getting Well, clearly they did that. But what I'd say is, why, 633 00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:55,719 how is this any different? You know, like, why is it 634 00:48:55,800 --> 00:49:00,840 that Dwight Eisenhower thought it was a great idea to put a first term US 635 00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:04,800 senator who hadn't finished their second year yet as his vice president. The name 636 00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:09,079 of Richard Nixon. Richard Nixon is Richard Nixon is thirty nine years old when 637 00:49:09,079 --> 00:49:15,320 he joins the ticket Richard Nixon. One of my favorite moment old clips is 638 00:49:15,360 --> 00:49:19,159 if you go back and look at on YouTube, there's this moment where they 639 00:49:19,159 --> 00:49:22,960 do the old hands above the podium and Richard Nixon is so excited that six 640 00:49:23,079 --> 00:49:29,639 years after he was a discharged lieutenant JG. He's standing on the stage as 641 00:49:29,679 --> 00:49:35,719 the partner of the greatest man in mythology that he's literally pointing to his hand 642 00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:37,199 with a grin on his faith. Look at me, look at me. 643 00:49:37,679 --> 00:49:43,559 Yea, let's bring Nixon moment, by the way, next moment. Yeah, 644 00:49:43,719 --> 00:49:46,599 So you know, it's like spirou Richard Nixon said, said, you 645 00:49:46,599 --> 00:49:50,480 know, I've got all the people in the entire country, all these distinguished 646 00:49:50,519 --> 00:49:57,760 governors and senators, but this unknown county executive of Baltimore County and a two 647 00:49:57,840 --> 00:50:01,360 year governor of Maryland, he's the best qualified. It's always been about this, 648 00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:05,840 but yeah, this time, yeah, this time they what the thing 649 00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:09,000 is that I think they thought. I think Biden thought that she was better 650 00:50:09,039 --> 00:50:15,880 than she is. Yeah, that's right. The failed campaign should have clued 651 00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:22,639 them in. But I think Biden wanted Amy Klobuchar, but she defend herself 652 00:50:22,639 --> 00:50:27,559 against the insinuations of racism, and that left him with no choice but to 653 00:50:27,639 --> 00:50:30,400 choose in African American. And then you take a look and it's her, 654 00:50:30,559 --> 00:50:38,360 Corey Booker, and who would you choose? Yeah, right, yeah, 655 00:50:38,719 --> 00:50:45,000 point made, Henry. Thanks for joining us. Once again. I'll remind 656 00:50:45,039 --> 00:50:50,000 people the podcast is called Beyond the Polls. It is available right here on 657 00:50:50,039 --> 00:50:53,360 the Ricochet Audio Network. It's going to be every other week until the burner 658 00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:57,559 goes on too high, and then it's going to be every week until we 659 00:50:59,039 --> 00:51:05,800 until we either close up shop or we uh or we we successfully annoint a 660 00:51:05,840 --> 00:51:07,639 new president. Thanks joining us. We'll see we'll see you, uh, 661 00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:10,719 I know we'll see you quite soon. Great well, thank you for having 662 00:51:10,760 --> 00:51:15,119 me back, Henry. Thank you so much. Beyond the polls. If 663 00:51:15,119 --> 00:51:21,000 you love politics, you'll love Henry Olson. Thanks Henry. So this is 664 00:51:21,079 --> 00:51:22,159 just like a t I felt like we were just like you know how it 665 00:51:22,199 --> 00:51:25,280 is when you're you know, you go to the You're in a fancy hotel, 666 00:51:25,920 --> 00:51:30,079 but buffet, I don't know how you do, and you're gonna walking 667 00:51:30,199 --> 00:51:34,199 to your hope, you're walking to your your table, and you pass all 668 00:51:34,239 --> 00:51:38,039 the French buffet stations as a guy gouts in indulgion waffles and all that stuff, 669 00:51:38,159 --> 00:51:39,920 and you just think, oh my god, I can't wait to stand 670 00:51:39,920 --> 00:51:44,920 and eat everything. That's kind of what we just did for this if you 671 00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:47,239 if you love this stuff for the next year or so. We just had 672 00:51:47,320 --> 00:51:52,679 kind of the little walk through the buffet. And I know we're late, 673 00:51:52,679 --> 00:51:55,880 so I'm just gonna I'm gonna go right to it. By the way, 674 00:51:55,960 --> 00:52:00,719 if you are listening to this podcast and you are a fan of sa Ricochet 675 00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:04,480 Audio Network. That's where Henry's a podcast appears and this one too. You 676 00:52:04,519 --> 00:52:07,519 should go to ricchet a common join Ricochet. We'd love to have you be 677 00:52:07,599 --> 00:52:09,320 a member of Ricochet. We do all of this stuff. We do have 678 00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:14,400 great conversations online a lot of great people. We also do in real life 679 00:52:14,480 --> 00:52:19,239 IRL meet it meetups. There's one August twenty eighth in Montgomery, Alabama that's 680 00:52:19,280 --> 00:52:22,360 gonna be either happen before after Paul Raised lecture at the Airwork College. I 681 00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:27,440 would not miss Paul Raised lecture at the air Work College. He is spectacular, 682 00:52:28,320 --> 00:52:31,159 spectacular speaker, thinker, and a longtime ricochet a member and contributor. 683 00:52:31,960 --> 00:52:36,880 Labor Day weekend in Cookville, Tennessee, there's going to be a whiskey tour 684 00:52:37,119 --> 00:52:43,360 and a little State Park co Waterfall View and the meetup is going to be 685 00:52:43,480 --> 00:52:45,480 in Cookville, Tennessee. Come and go to Rick schet to common find out 686 00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:50,000 more about it. And then if this is two, this is too soon. 687 00:52:50,239 --> 00:52:52,119 The notice is too soon. We got a long one for you long. 688 00:52:52,840 --> 00:52:59,039 Oh, you got plenty of notice of this one April eighth in Texas, 689 00:53:00,320 --> 00:53:05,199 Ricochet is gonna meet up to look at the eclipse. So market calendars 690 00:53:05,199 --> 00:53:07,840 Texas meet up. A Mega Paladin member, a Mega palattin is organizing April 691 00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:15,159 eight to watch the Sol total solar eclipse. April eight. That's gonna be 692 00:53:15,239 --> 00:53:17,480 great town. Which town in Texas? Texas is a big place, of 693 00:53:17,519 --> 00:53:20,599 course, I don't know yet. I don't know yet. Stop, we 694 00:53:20,599 --> 00:53:22,519 don't have it yet, but it's it's it's happening. It's gonna it's happening, 695 00:53:22,559 --> 00:53:25,239 and we don't want We know one thing that's gonna happen on April eighth, 696 00:53:25,239 --> 00:53:28,199 that's gonna be an eclipse, and we know another thing's gonna happen. 697 00:53:28,199 --> 00:53:31,840 It's gonna be a Ricochet meet up where exactly somewhere in Texas, you know, 698 00:53:32,280 --> 00:53:38,519 somewhere in Texas to Narrow Town. In between Labor Day and April eighth, 699 00:53:39,159 --> 00:53:42,840 there're gonna be a bunch more meetups that are gonna be organized. And 700 00:53:42,880 --> 00:53:45,559 if you'd like to organize one, to simply go to Ricchetta comm and join 701 00:53:45,639 --> 00:53:50,519 Ricochet and put up a date and a time and a place and Ricochet members 702 00:53:50,559 --> 00:53:53,599 will join you for dinner, cook out, whatever you want. That's what 703 00:53:53,639 --> 00:53:58,800 we too show up. So ricocheta com. Please join now before we go. 704 00:53:59,400 --> 00:54:01,480 I wanted to just I want to just get my licks in right now. 705 00:54:01,519 --> 00:54:07,280 Bad new, ridiculous news. This is why I think that that run 706 00:54:07,360 --> 00:54:15,920 De Santist may may experience a surge. Masks, gentlemen are back. No, 707 00:54:15,920 --> 00:54:21,239 no, no, no, no, there is an uptick in COVID 708 00:54:21,360 --> 00:54:24,239 nineteen or some variant or something. I no longer pay attention to those things 709 00:54:24,320 --> 00:54:29,239 yet, and they are you know, for instances, is a college Atlanta 710 00:54:29,320 --> 00:54:31,840 saying no parties or large student events on on campus for the next two weeks. 711 00:54:34,159 --> 00:54:37,000 The studio lions Gate in Santa Monta, California. I know that, 712 00:54:37,119 --> 00:54:38,039 see you very well. I know the people run that. They are now 713 00:54:38,199 --> 00:54:44,039 requiring all employees to do self screening for COVID daily before running the office. 714 00:54:44,079 --> 00:54:51,800 And I think a mask mandate is on its way. Have I thoroughly depressed 715 00:54:51,800 --> 00:54:55,320 you? No? I mean no. This is good for De Santists. 716 00:54:55,440 --> 00:54:59,400 This is all I care about at the moment. This is good for De 717 00:54:59,480 --> 00:55:04,880 Santists. That's actually not that great for Trump, he'd but Desands is the 718 00:55:04,880 --> 00:55:08,000 one. As you know, our friend Jay Botcharia got a call out of 719 00:55:08,039 --> 00:55:12,199 the blue one day. I am deeply aware of this because I happened to 720 00:55:12,199 --> 00:55:16,960 stop by Jay's office for our two or three time weekly jabber the day after 721 00:55:17,000 --> 00:55:20,639 it happened, and the man on the other end of the line was the 722 00:55:20,679 --> 00:55:24,920 governor of Florida, and they talked for something like three hours, and Jay 723 00:55:25,000 --> 00:55:29,599 said, I have never talked to anybody, even at the Stanford Medical School, 724 00:55:29,599 --> 00:55:34,440 who was as well versed in the research. He's read all the papers, 725 00:55:34,440 --> 00:55:37,679 he knows more. And Ron Desanders refused to shut dat wealth. There 726 00:55:37,719 --> 00:55:39,119 was a moment when he shut it down, but then as he's got into 727 00:55:39,239 --> 00:55:45,719 it, the open California right back up. By the way, he give 728 00:55:45,760 --> 00:55:52,360 credited right. I was criticized by the sitting the sitting president for doing so. 729 00:55:52,559 --> 00:55:55,920 Trump took him to task for doing it. By the way, Rob, 730 00:55:57,079 --> 00:55:59,639 why is it that you would know so much about this well? As 731 00:55:59,679 --> 00:56:02,639 you know, Peter, I'm working on a long form podcast about and I 732 00:56:02,679 --> 00:56:06,880 really thought to myself, I'll be honest with you, I'm not I'm mad 733 00:56:06,920 --> 00:56:08,599 the COVID's coming back because I just think, I know, I can't keep 734 00:56:08,639 --> 00:56:13,119 adding stuff to this. I gotta like get it's gotta be smaller. And 735 00:56:13,320 --> 00:56:15,960 uh, we're talking about it again, and I feel like what I was 736 00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:20,679 hoping to do is to create a kind of an eight chapter audio series where 737 00:56:20,679 --> 00:56:22,559 if you could listen to it at your leisure and you could store it in 738 00:56:22,599 --> 00:56:27,840 your people could listen to it in ten years and it would be a snapshot 739 00:56:27,880 --> 00:56:30,840 of what we went through to never go through again. And it seems like 740 00:56:30,840 --> 00:56:34,840 we're going through it again. Can I just ask this sort of an overall 741 00:56:34,920 --> 00:56:37,719 question about that your project? How are you This is the first we've talked 742 00:56:37,719 --> 00:56:42,519 about this for years and now Rob Long is actually doing it a long for 743 00:56:42,719 --> 00:56:45,599 a serial podcast. Why do you like the medium? How are you enjoying? 744 00:56:45,599 --> 00:56:47,960 It's great. It's a lot of fun because you can kind of like, 745 00:56:49,119 --> 00:56:51,599 uh, you know, you meet people, you think, oh, 746 00:56:51,639 --> 00:56:52,880 can I kind of call you up and just record I kind of ask you 747 00:56:52,920 --> 00:56:55,920 those questions again, and you can kind of like you quilt it together, 748 00:56:55,960 --> 00:56:59,719 so you get all this audio, get all this audio. You know, 749 00:56:59,719 --> 00:57:01,480 I got tons now hours and hours, and I'm getting more and more hours. 750 00:57:01,519 --> 00:57:05,039 I have to wait. Some of it's being delayed because of people are 751 00:57:05,079 --> 00:57:09,400 running around in August. And then you stitch it together. It's easier and 752 00:57:09,440 --> 00:57:13,679 easier to do now with all this like AI technology, frankly, it's amazing. 753 00:57:15,000 --> 00:57:19,039 Put it this way. When I started, we were doing another podcast 754 00:57:19,119 --> 00:57:22,199 and we had a bunch of about China, and we have a bun We 755 00:57:22,239 --> 00:57:24,320 have hours and hours of interviews, and I had to go to get them 756 00:57:24,320 --> 00:57:28,119 transcribed, right, I had to go to get a transcription service. And 757 00:57:28,119 --> 00:57:30,280 this is Look, this is like nine months ago, barely nine months ago, 758 00:57:30,800 --> 00:57:36,039 of cost a thousand dollars per hour or no, no, just for 759 00:57:36,119 --> 00:57:39,599 all all you know, but a lot right now it's AI, doesn't it 760 00:57:39,679 --> 00:57:44,639 for free? About fifteen? So yeah, so it's pretty great. And 761 00:57:44,639 --> 00:57:46,440 then you gotta get I edited the audio and you get to get music in 762 00:57:46,519 --> 00:57:49,679 it. It's gonna be really great. It's gonna be a real story. 763 00:57:50,199 --> 00:57:52,079 And I was hoping would have a happy ending. But now I'm worried that 764 00:57:52,119 --> 00:57:59,159 it's it's really just a stay tuned for the sequel, but maybe not. 765 00:57:59,719 --> 00:58:02,519 Maybe be if we all we all remember it's still pretty raw. We remember 766 00:58:02,639 --> 00:58:12,519 the disaster of our response to COVID almost entirely wrong in almost every realm. 767 00:58:13,360 --> 00:58:16,719 Let's hope that cooler has prevailed. Rob. I know we're running along, 768 00:58:16,760 --> 00:58:20,800 but but I would be remember you're talking about catastrophe, which puts me in 769 00:58:20,840 --> 00:58:22,599 the mind of the rise and fall of Empires, which reminds me that at 770 00:58:22,639 --> 00:58:27,239 the top of the show you said there's no place in the world as interesting 771 00:58:27,239 --> 00:58:29,920 as the Mediterranean. Put a pin in that. We come back to the 772 00:58:29,960 --> 00:58:32,880 pin and closing, well, I just feel like, oh, I guess 773 00:58:32,880 --> 00:58:36,159 what. I just love talking about it. I can talk about so I 774 00:58:36,159 --> 00:58:38,320 spent I've been. I's been in Spain. I was in Spain last week, 775 00:58:38,360 --> 00:58:42,000 as in may Orca, and then earlier the summer I was in the 776 00:58:42,000 --> 00:58:45,760 south of France, and last summer I was in Tunisia. And this is 777 00:58:45,840 --> 00:58:50,119 typical rob By the way. Yeah, it's like this. You could be 778 00:58:52,840 --> 00:58:58,400 everywhere you go, right everywhere you go, you see some weird you're sailing 779 00:58:58,440 --> 00:59:01,360 around the black and then oh, what's that? That's a crusader for it. 780 00:59:01,400 --> 00:59:04,679 Now, I don't know what the crusaders joining my Orca there they were. 781 00:59:04,719 --> 00:59:06,880 I thought you were gonna say, everywhere you go you find a sign 782 00:59:06,880 --> 00:59:13,159 that says rob Long was here. That's right, right, right, Yeah, 783 00:59:13,199 --> 00:59:15,920 I wish I have a feeling that with set sets, so you know, 784 00:59:15,000 --> 00:59:19,440 the summer's over, let's we gotta like get back to work, speaking 785 00:59:19,440 --> 00:59:22,039 it back to work. This podcast was brought to you by Ball and Branch, 786 00:59:22,079 --> 00:59:24,760 so you support them by supporting us. They've been loyal advertisers for a 787 00:59:24,760 --> 00:59:29,000 long time. They had a great product. I know James always tells you 788 00:59:29,000 --> 00:59:30,440 to please take a minute to leave a five store of you and Apple podcasts, 789 00:59:30,480 --> 00:59:34,119 and it does seem like we say it all the time. And here's 790 00:59:34,159 --> 00:59:37,960 why, because it really does matter. It's all about these complicated algorithms. 791 00:59:37,000 --> 00:59:40,559 You can help work the algorithm to have new listeners discover us, keep the 792 00:59:40,599 --> 00:59:44,480 show going. And of course we'd love to see you in rick Sche dot 793 00:59:44,519 --> 00:59:45,320 com. We'd love to see you in the comments. We'd love to see 794 00:59:45,320 --> 00:59:47,360 you mixing it up with our other members. So go to rick Sche dot 795 00:59:47,360 --> 00:59:51,679 com and join the conversation if you remember, and if you're not a member, 796 00:59:51,760 --> 00:59:54,039 joined Ricochet and then join a conversation, start one of your own, 797 00:59:54,079 --> 00:59:58,960 and we hope to see you at one of our meetups. Steve and Peter 798 01:00:00,199 --> 01:00:07,679 see next week. Next week boys Ricochet joined the Conversation