What is up, fellows thermonuclear A efforts. I am Dan Valley coming at
you with another twenty twenty three, twenty twenty four NBA look Ahead. We're
onto the Toronto Raptors and that means I must, I have to and I'm
excited to speak with Amon Aden of Yahoo Sports Canada does a fantastic job covering
the Toronto Raptors and talking about the entire league at large. The question we
have to begin with Amon, how the heck are You're doing? Good?
Good? Thank you? How are you? I am mortified at probably some
of the takes I delivered with you about the Raptors on this podcast last year.
I was going through and I was like, oh, that was a
favorite dream. You know, vibes are high. Also, I would be
remissive I did not plug Pros and Clause, which is a new stub sack
that I have coming out with us, and so please check that out as
well. You'll find lots of our writings there, a lot more of my
NBA at Large stuff will be will be at sub stack pros and Clause,
pros and claus pros and it pros like like pros like and then clause because
you know, we're so punny, like a raptor claw Joe. I'll put
the link to that in the podcast YouTube descriptions and so people can go subscribe
to that is when it is running. I had. The last thing I
did was a Damian Lillar piece because the NBA decided to go really really quiet
outside of KPJ stuff, which I did not want to write about because it's
just anchor on a page. And uh yeah, so more stuff will come
out. I have a CP CP three goal and stay Warriors thing that I'm
working on right now that's not going to be divisive at all because I really
like it. I really like so on board some Warriors fans. I'm sorry,
but yeah, yeah. My co host is a Warriors fan and he's
on board with the move, and so he's I'm pretty sure he's been exo
communicated from the Warriors fan base. I'm just unfairly certain. I love I
love it. Like imagine if you're like you don't need to have just Draymond
run pick and roll a ton when he just can't shoot anymore and teams just
don't trust him. Imagine if you had the best pick and roll guard in
basketball. Uh there as well, so step doesn't just need to be a
screener. Draymond gets at the screens. I'm sorry, I'm ruining my piece.
We're taught here to talk raptors, We're not here to talk on State
Warriors. But yeah, yeah, so let's let's talk Toronto Raptors. I
wanted to start with last season and the disappointment it was. It was clearly
a confluence of stuff when you look at We've heard the reports about what was
going on with Nick Nurse behind the scenes. You had topsy turvy shooting from
FEV, regression from GTJ. I think they also probably we're hoping for bigger
leaps from Scottie Barnes and Precious Sichua, who speaking of being mortified, I
told you I picked him for my most improved player on this podcast last year.
That selection did not pan out so well. Was there like a bigger
factor more than anything else that contributed to last season. Was it just roster
constructing, Like what stood out the most to you about that year's team?
Yeah, it was. It was a lot of things. I mean,
I tried to talk Warriors already, and I try to really make this pod
about Canada basketball anything to talk about that rafter seam last year, but their
defense was atrocious, which is something that you know, we got on this
pod here last year. We were like, hey, they're going to be
good defensively. You know, in the second half of that twenty twenty one
season they finished top three in the second half of that season. Defensively,
you would expect that a team that has a bunch of six nine guys with
seven long, seven feet long wingspan would be a good defensive team. And
that's just not what we saw at all last year. And that has to
do with some of the behind the scenes stuff with me Nurse. I'm shore
that has to do with some of the regression that guys took. So so
it is just sort of all of those things compounding into one main issue.
But when you look at that Raptors team, I think the lack of defense
really speaks to that team's identity. It was very clear that they were checked
out. You have Nick Nurse making having a press conference in Philadelphia, which
just happens to be the team that he now coaches, basically being like,
yeah, ten years, this is a long time with the team. Yeah,
maybe looking back at this and kind of it was it felt like an
end of season presser in the middle of the season one. Your team is
fighting for a playoff spot and it just so happens to be the city that
you now coach at a lot of coincidences, but yeah, so I think
you just had a lot of guys really check out and defense. Defense would
be their primary issue. Five en leap shooting going down. Yes, I
think not taking that leap from past sorry from Scottie Barnes and Freshisachua. Sure,
that's big, but I think even when we talked about it last year,
we were like, they're kind of superfluous, a little bit like if
they take that leap, that's the cherry on top. But the bones of
this team is already so good. With Feddan Fleet coming off of an All
Star season, Pascal Siakam coming off of an All NBA season. We know
what og n and Obi was and he is not anyone who disappointed last year.
He's he's not the guy that you look at. So you're looking at
the bones of this team, You're like, that's a good team. You
add in Scotty, you add in Precious, and as long as they don't
regress, everything should be fine, but not only do they not take that
next step. I'm not sure that they had better seasons, and they definitely
did not have better seasons than they had the season prior, and I think
that that matters, But it doesn't fall on them, It falls on the
entire team. Defensively, everybody was checked out, and part of that is
roster construction. It took so long for the Raptors to finally get a rim
protector, but I think part of that is because they proved the year before
that they can do it without one, but none of them had to buy
in that they had the season prior, and everything just started to crumble and
it was all bad. It was a bad year. You had mentioned to
the defense, and so they hired dark Oroyakovich, and he's talked a lot,
I think about protecting the rim and contesting threes or limiting threes. Do
you expect them under him to change the principles of their defense, which over
the past few years has just been super aggressive, like, let's force turnovers,
that's going to drive our offense in transition? Do you expect to see
any changes there, maybe a more conservative approach from them under him. Yeah,
definitely, And I think that Nick Nurse kind of gets a lot of
the blame for the way that the Raptors played defense because it was this ultra
aggressive style. But he also had a team that didn't have a center and
had a bunch of six nine guys with seven few wings ben So the way
to take away the rim is to have a bunch of guys you know you're
not you're giving up those corner threes because you expect guys to be able to
rotate back and then rotate back to the rim because they're so long. They
are just they're able to beat their man at any given time. But that
takes so much out of guys, and I think that that was under calculated
by the team. But now that they have Yaka Podle, who is a
great rim protector, we saw what the numbers look like. When yak of
Perodle came into the phrase, the defense skyrocketed. It was so much better,
and the defense also looked good with Christian Coloko at the five, they
just needed a center. They needed to have that guy. So now that
Darko has that, I do think they'll play a more conservative style of defense,
and I think a lot of people are going to credit him for that
and kind of knock Nick Nurse because they did not do that hardwood, knock
Nick Nurse because they didn't do that. But I don't think that's completely fair,
just because Nick Nurse had a roster that did not have that guy and
Darko will And to your point, they were six and I was someone who
kind of criticized the Acapeurtle trade, but they were six then points lab per
possession after the trade deadline, so we'll see if that sticks. And the
other thing to Nick Nurse's credit, I know people make fun of the minutes
he played his key players, but when you don't really have a trustworthy bench,
I don't know what else you're supposed to do, and I don't know
how much better that team gets. And I'm also wondering with the style he
wanted to play defensively, if you don't have the depth of talents like kind
of spread those minutes about, if it just gets hard to sustain over not
just a season, but multiple seasons. Yeah, I think that's exactly what
we saw. No, no, I was gonna say that's exactly what we
saw. Fred van Fleet. I didn't start with him, probably should have.
I was actually surprised at least per Raptors fans in our YouTube comments who
were pretty aggressive by saying there were some that said Fred van Fleet was going
to be additioned by subtraction like type of stuff. Where did you sort of
land on that where you surprised it played out the way it did? Is
he actually this huge loss? As people, you know, these people that
are thirty thousand feet away, like myself, think he's a monster loss.
Where does you just sort of land on how that entire situation played out?
Yeah, I'm definitely in the minority of Raptor fans in that I think it
is a huge loss. I think this is the biggest blender of the Raptors
front office tenure. A lot of people talk about their lack of asset management,
and you know that they've lost pretty much everyone from the championship roster for
nothing back in return, except for Pascal siakam oh g of course, but
he wasn't playing in the playoffs at the very least, And I don't vaute
them for that. Like Kyle Lowry, you do a favor for your greatest,
the greatest Raptor of all time. He did not want to be traded
mid season. He wanted to go to Miami, and you're doing the greatest
player in your franchise history who just helped you win a championship a favor you
do that. Kauai didn't want to be here, always wanted to be in
La win a championship. You let him go. You knew that that was
a risk, and that is when you do ten times out of ten,
Marcus Soul, Sergeibaka, those were not guys that you were giving their next
contract too. Would not have made sense. They did not offer them anything
because they did not want them back, and so frequently it is the one
guy who they wanted back. I mean, everyone's been talking about what direction
are the Raptors going in? Who knows what they want to do? And
they told us time and time again exactly what they want to do, which
is run it back. They got last season didn't work for a number of
reasons, coaching being one of them, defense being another because you didn't have
a Ram protector. They looked at last season and thought, Okay, well,
if we fix these issues which we have, they should be a much
better team next season. That's what they continuously told us, Except the decision
wasn't theirs to make for VanVleet was a free agent and Houston gave him the
bag. Not something that you could have foresaw going in to the off season,
certainly like them getting em Udoka and not giving Harden the money that we
all thought that they would and instead giving it to Dylan Brooks and Fried Van
Bleet. But that's where you're left with, and so to me, it
was the biggest bunder of the front office and it's a huge loss for the
Raptors. The idea that it could be additioned by subtraction for a team that
has no shooting no matter, no matter what you do, you want to
build a team around either Scotty Barnes's, Pascal Siakam or both of them.
The one thing that either one of them will need, both of them will
need is shooting, and Feathermvleet was your best shooter. Even though he had
a bad shooting year last year, his career tells us that he's the best
shooter. And even though those shots weren't going in, he's the only one
being guarded out there with relative consistency right, which is a lot of what
floor spacing is. He's also the team's only pull up three point shot,
which is going to be a huge issue on this team this season. That
the fact that they have no pull up shooter. And I know that.
You know the reason why people say it's additioned by subtraction is everyone wants the
ball in Scottie Barnes's hands and wants Scottie Barnes to have more, you know,
point guard reps. But hey, even if you do that, guess
what he needs next to him, the catch and shoot guy, and he
answer, Your best catch and shoop guy was by the numbers every single year,
Fred VanVleet. So there's no scenario where, in my opinion, where
it is additioned by subtraction. He was also a great leader, But people
just want the usage to be spread out more and I get that, But
to me, I don't know that Fred VanVleet had the ball in his hands
because he's the selfish player who doesn't know how to play off ball. He
played off ball, he played alongside Kyle Lowry. He's been doing this his
entire career, right like he knows how to do that. It's that they
didn't have a better option, and I think that that's something that people have
not yet come around too, because they don't want to believe it to be
true. But the numbers bear it out. There was no better option than
Fred van Bleet on ball, and so that's what the Raptors had to do.
You look at it post yak Of trade, the best sort of offense
that you got was the pick and roll between yak Of and Freed. It's
funny as his pick and roll big, but now you don't have a pick
and roll guard because nobody's a pull up shooter on the team. But there's
there's no there's like no balance here. Losing five Van Lead is an entire
blender. They have not made it up. I you know, we talked
about FIBA a lot. Shout outs to Dennis Shoulder for winning FIBA MVP,
but he's also not a pull up threat, and I think that's gonna really
really matter this season. So in my opinion, there is no scenario.
There's no world. We're losing five Van Leaders addition by subtraction. Even if
you want five Lead, sorry Scottie Barnes, to take that next step and
be your point guard, you still need shooting around him. You still still
need a secondary ball handler. At best. And I don't know that you
can have all of your ball handlers on the team, whether it's Pascal,
Scottie or Dennis Shoulder, not be pull up threats and not be a recipe
for success. That's just what team has had that happen and it be success.
I can't think of one, right. I was actually surprised with a
lot of the criticism that we got when we were talking about this over the
off season was that we don't watch Raptors games. Obviously, that's that's that's
criticism number one. Because he was a ballhog and he was selfish, and
it was just like you look at the options they had and just like they
were in the eighth percent tile of half court efficiency when when Pascal og and
Scotty played without van Fleet, like that's war like their half court ofference was
bad and they got a lot worse without Van Fleet. And so I was
just I thought maybe the number took some people back, and there were people
I talked about about the luxury tax, and I'm like, look, it
was a two year max. It's a three year deal, but it was
a two year max. You can get out of it and figure, I'm
team figure out the rest later, like you pay this man, and if
you need to cut salary elsewhere, like you just pay you figure it out
later. That's that's where I'm at. The number scared me. I'm not
gonna lie. The number scared me. And for that number, if you're
not going to pay him, that sure. But also, the Raptors walked
into last off season with three guys who were unrestricted free agents, and I'm
sorry, Like, yeah, tampering rules and all of that, but if
you're not having conversations with your guys, if you're not gauging where they are
and whether or not they want to come, I think you sort of make
deals and you make moves. But they didn't want to do that because they
wanted to see what this team would look like together. I personally think there's
like the Ballhogs and the shot. There's a lot of conversation about like,
oh, look at the shots that he took, and it's like, you
need a pull up shooting. You need a guy who can space the floor
even if it doesn't go in, even if you think it's a bad shot.
You need to keep defenses honest, and right now, the Raptors don't
have a guy that can reliably do that, and we've seen that it's it's
just it's not gonna work. And Fred VanVleet had a bad season last year
shooting like that was his worst season shooting, and he took a step back
defensively as well. That was not you know, that's not all star Fred
VanVleet. And I think if you were paying Fred van Vleet long term,
you're or for the next two three years. Let's say your ideas that you're
not going to get this version of Fred VanVleet last season that struggles, you're
wanting to get this season before the seasons before that, what we've known him
to be, not this bad year where he's clearly dealing with back stuff and
playing like thirty eight minutes at night on a team that's not winning any games.
You're expecting more. And yeah, I think people just really, really
really want to see that next step from Scottie Barnes. And it was clear
that Fred VanVleet in his usage is in the way. And so that's I
think where that sentiment comes from. But as someone who just wants to see
this team win, I think giving up a player like five m Leet for
nothing is not great. Yeah, And I mean you made the point you
didn't want to pay him, and there should have been something that was addressed,
like at the trade deadline if you'd like, so you should have bet
a their pulse. So you lose Spreadman Fleet, but you resign yaka Peardle,
you hire, you get rid of Nick Nurse, you hire a first
time NBA head coach. Just I know this is probably too existential, but
like, what is this team's direction? Then it seems like they're sending all
these mixed messages and on top of everything, by the way, like OG
is going to be a free agent as an extension eligible did over Pascal Siakam
who's been Both those guys have been like kind of trade rumors. The Oakham's
trade rumor mill has been hotter than Ogs this summer. I would say,
like what is does this team not have an idea of what it is?
Yet? Like am I am I too far moved from the situation? Do
they have a pulse? And I just I don't see it, Like what
is what is their direction? Yeah? I think I think all of last
season and even heading into July first, I'm like, why is everyone asking
this question. They've told us, like every time you get them in front
of a microphone, they're telling us, run it back. We like this
team, we like this corp. We think Scotty can take the next step
and fit in with this team. Right, and then you lose frivem Bleed
and it's like, Okay, what is your direction? Because you're walking into
next season with Pascal as you mentioned, and og as you mentioned, and
Gary Trent Junior as well, who you know exercises player option is now going
to be expiring. So you have three of your top six players once again
expiring. What is your plan? You don't have a pick either, And
I think I think if you gave them a little truth, here's what I
think it is. And I've been thinking a lot about this. I think
if you give them true serum, they're gonna be like But I think it
really depends on the next step that Scotti takes. I think a lot of
the answers to this question fall on Scotty Barnes, right, So if Scotty
Barnes takes that next leap, and if we're talking about Scotty Barnes in his
third year, you know, Pascal Siakam was the second leading scorer on a
championship team in his third year after being a bench player of the year before.
Guys in their third year can take that leap. And I'm not saying
that he needs to be that good right away, but if he's if we're
seeing a progression, if we're seeing that next leap from Scottie Barnes, then
I think keep pascalic. Why wouldn't you do? Like, if Scotty looks
like he's ready to win now, then Pascal is ready to win. Now.
We're not talking about them being on two separate timelines. You have guys
that are ready to win now, you bring in a bunch of shooting around
them, and you reconstruct this roster around were two guys. If Scotti takes
that next step now, if Scotty doesn't still early year three doesn't mean that
he's not going to take that next step eventually. But if he doesn't,
then we're talking about, Okay, well, can you make some moves to
fit around Pascal Siakam? If not, do you have to move Pascal Siakam?
And I think at that point the conversation has to be do you move
Pascal? And that's where I may be different from a lot of rapt fans
because in my thoughts is, if he doesn't take that next step, or
if it doesn't look like that superstar progression is coming, or that All Star
All NBA progression is coming, I wouldn't want to trade away my best player
for someone if there's nobody better coming through the pipeline, if that makes sense,
right. So that's where I have a little bit of my hangups,
and I think Rapter fans are going to get mad at me for saying that.
And I'm not saying that he can't take that next step. I'm just
saying this season. Last year, when we talked about it, I thought,
if Scotty's great, if Scottie takes that leap, cherry on top,
sky's the limit for this team. Whereas this season, I don't think that
that's the case. I think it matters. I think it's a core piece
of what this team looks like. I think it's the core piece of what
this team looks like and what direction they choose to take. It really comes
down to what does Scotty Barnes look like? And there's like that feels like
a I mean, it's a multi layer question. But there's like a twofold
to it. So looking at last season, what was like, where did
he regress? Mostly what was most disappointing was maybe the regression overblown from a
national perspective. How much of that also had to do with the roster construction
a little bit, because I'm with you, I actually don't there are redundancies
to Scotty Barnes and Pascal Siakam. I want to make that clear. But
if you surround Pascal Siakim and Scotty Barnes with shooting, that's a really good
team. And the Raptors didn't do that. So I find myself I'd mentioned
this to you before you come on. I'm trying to center my thoughts on
how I feel about Scotty Barnes because they're so scattered and disorganized and chaotic,
because I don't know how much blame to ascribe to him versus like the roster
construction really wasn't, frankly to optimize like most of their top talent. It
was like a lot of Pascal Siaka played really well almost in spite of how
the roster was built around them. Entirely. That entirely that and I agree
with that one hundred and twenty million percent. I think with Scottie where we
saw a little bit of regression is with his efficiency. So coming into the
league, there was a lot of talk about Scottie Barnes not being a shooter
at all, like not having any sort of range on his shot. There
were jokes about like zero level score and all this other stuff, and right
away, yeah, it was mean, and right away he disproved that first
game. I think his first shot was like this, like gorgeous skyhook.
Like right away were like, hey, look at this guy. And you
saw that being disproved right away, and that's why he won Rookie of the
Year. He had a fantastic rookie season and in his second year, not
to say that he regrets into being you know, all those mean jokes early
on, but we saw that efficiency depth across the board, and I think
where we and this is sort of where the Yaccapurdole conversation comes up because we're
talking about a lot of guys redundancies, is where we really saw Scotty excel
is when he played your sort of nominal five. Okay, that's where you
really saw I think Scotty's best month last year would have been January. That's
where you really got to see him excels when he plays that sort of five
four of the team that obviously takes a toll on people's bodies, but you're
sort of using him in that way. It's similar to and Raptor fans are
going to give so much trouble for this, but it's similar to everyone talking
about, you know, Ben Simmon's a point guard. Ben Simmons offensively kind
of fits is your five right because he's because he doesn't have that sort of
shot yet. And I think it's very kind that you said, yet that's
very that's very nice of you when people were having those conversations about Ben Simmons
and might have been your two three. We're down the line now. But
I think with Scotty, there's no reason he's twenty one right, there's no
reason to believe that he can't progress. There's no reas and believe that he
can't grow. Pascal's Yakom also did not have a shot at all at this
age, so he doesn't have much bright now but so much better. It's
so much better. So I think that that would be sort of the main
thing. And as as a ball handler and as your primary playmaker, there's
going to be a lot of steps that Scotty's going to need to take,
especially if the ball is just going to be in his hands and he's going
to be the guy doing it. He can make really flashy passes, right
Like those no look passes are gorgeous. You know you're talking about a big
guy making playmaking. That's always going to be great. We all, we
all love big playmakers. It's fun to watch and it's also just smarter if
guys can just see you over the defense. But I think with pass with
Scotty Barnes, it's going to be how to get into the teeth of the
defense because another thing that we're missing with fred n Bleet is, yeah,
he's not a guy who can finish at all, right, he really struggled,
But he's also as a ball handler, the guy who got you the
most pain touches, and that's going to be something. It's it's all I
think a lot easier to do as a smaller guy than a bigger guy getting
in there. But that's going to be something where we're going to need to
see Scottie take that next step. Those are going to be the areas that
I'm watching, just as the primary playmakers or primary ball handler Canny get this
team paint touches, how is this kickout game? Kenny Finish also consistently get
to the free throw line. Those are going to be the things that we
want to see from Scotty Barnes, and those are things that I think he
can do. So I'm excited about the next step. But where he sort
of took a step back last year is because again the offense doesn't prioritize him
when you have Prevently and Pascal Siak, I'm doing their thing, but also
you need him to be a spacer in some ways and he just can't.
So as a screener sort of your nominal five on offense, he you know,
dribble handoff action. I think we'll be We're going to see a much
different offense, I think, and I think that that's what this comes down
to is with Darko, we'll hopefully see a much different offense than we saw
last year. But I again don't think that's an entire knock on Nick Nurse.
I think that's more so rustic instruction. Yeah, with Scottie, I
actually believe he'll end up being okay, stand still shooter. I don't know.
I don't think he'll ever probably become a pull up threat. I believe
in his ability to get to the basket. I think even when you watch
him sometimes it feels like he doesn't get to the basket as much as he
actually does because he throws up that you know, that turnaround push out or
that hook shot a lot, and maybe you'd like to not bail out as
much. And I think he'll get to the free throw line more often because
of his ability to get inside like that. The thing is, and I
think this overlaps with your concern is just when you mentioned Yaka Peardle, He's
not gonna be in Scotty Martin's most of these line of phenomenal five. You're
gonna just have this five. And so can that processing speed is a playmaker
increase because when he has like a head of speed, and it doesn't have
to be in transition, but like if he's like turning a corner in the
half court and like he's catching the ball and going, he can be really
devastating both of the score and a passer. But it's in those slower,
more methodical situations where if you have to call for a ball screen from Yacca
peardle Orf, the defense is just back and is forcing you to set.
I don't know that I have I'm not saying he can't do it. I
just don't know how confident I am that, like the dynamic between Scotty and
Yakub as Scotti is driving for of your offense is going to work with the
current roster. You definitely feels like you need more shooting. But I think
a lot of it is just gonna come down to Scotty acting faster and slower
situations. That might be a terrible way to phrase it, but like that's
where I'm just the most curious. Yeah, no, not that makes a
lot of sense. I'm honestly really excited to see what this next. I'm
excited to see what their fit is. Because they signed Jacob on for long
term, this looks to be the team. I know. There are reports
about like can you get it bogged on from Atlanta to help with your spacing?
Are there's some other people that you can add? But I'm I'm I'm
excited to see what this team looks like. I think I think this will
be a big year for Scotty Pascal Siakam, I feel like as viewed as
this and we might have had the exact same discussion last year as this good
not great player. I felt like that persisted last year. What do you
think is like the misconception about how well he performed last season or how valuable
he is, And then also just sort of what does he need to do
like he shot? Like is it simply just hey, if you could hit
more than thirty four percent of your catching shoot threes, like that would be
great, buddy, Like we don't need you to be a pull up threat,
Like could you just hit like thirty seven percent are your catching shoots?
Like what are you looking or monitoring most closely with him this year? Yeah,
let's where I get a little dululu. So okay, A couple of
things. One is, I think the overall perception of Pascal Siakam comes from
the fact that, again we talked about this, We've mentioned it already,
he's doing this in a team that is not built to maximize his skill set
in the slightest right, there's a lot of conversations about this, you know,
in order for Scotty to develop and in order for Scotty to grow,
you need more shooting, you need a team that's built around him, and
that is true, But the same could be said for Pascal Siakam, and
still Pascal Siakam continues to take that next sleep. Pascal Siakam's ability to do
this in negative spacing is something to behold. It is it is something that
I mean, maybe shay for Team kat if I can just bring it back
to that one more time that I've seen, but like it, it is
something. It is a sight to behold his ability to do to create something
out of nothing. But I think what it comes down to for Pascal and
we can look back at the numbers the start of the year and the end
of the year are very different, and I think a large part of that
comes down to the usage that he has, but more importantly the minutes set
he plays. He has led the league in minutes the last two seasons.
This is a guy who's dealt with the same injury over and over again,
and we're starting to see that take a toll. You talk about his catch
and shoot numbers pretty else. Stark, he shot thirty seven percent. Captain
shoot threes both, I'll start twenty eight percent so there is or and like
that is not just like a one random trend from last season. That's kind
of what happens, and that's probably going to continue to happen if he plays
forty minutes a night or whatever crazy thing. It is. Hopefully now that
you have Dark going instead of Nick Nurse and you have a more deep roster,
this Raptors team has more playable guys than they had last season, that
hopefully goes down. So I do think large part of it is this load
that he's had to carry for the team, playing in leading the league in
minutes the last two seasons. You see that number, you see his numbers
go down. You can go across the board. His efficiency continuously goes down
posts all Star. I have to imagine that comes down to the Burt the
the load that he's had to carry. I meant, thirty seven percent catch
and shoot guy from three at the start of the season down to twenty eight
and a half maybe in the second half of the season, not second half
of the season, but from February onwards. Really points to a guy who
just has to carry this massive burden. But I think at the start of
the season we were talking about Pascal is like, whoa this next step that
he just took? Is he is he gonna be on? Like you know,
where is he going to fall in your All NBA list? It wasn't
is he going to make the team? It was how high do we have
him up here? Because he's just playing insane basketball? And he had like
a forty point triple double against the Brooklyn Nets and it's like, this guy
is unstoppable. There is actually nothing you can throw at him. And again,
this is on a team that cannot shoot, which says a whole lot.
It's not a team that is built to maximize his skill set. So
what I would say to the rest of the world who doesn't understand what Pascal
is doing is one, the burden that he is carrying is the heys in
league. He's leather the league in minutes the last two seasons and that matters.
And two, he's on a team that is not built for him.
It is built with copies of him, which does not really work very well.
Right, So like being able to do that on a team that just
is not there to maximize your skill set. Imagine if you had a Pascal
Siakam around a bunch of shooting, I think you were talking about this team
in a much different way. And if he doesn't have to carry the low
defensively, also because of this aggressive style of defense that we talked about Nick
Nurse deploying, I think we're talking about Pascal siakam in a much different light.
So I do think that he's had to carry a pretty heavy burden for
this Raptor's team. Yeah, and I mean, look, I think you
can see it in a lot of just like some of their splits. You
even look at Scotty last year, was that like forty nine percent shooting on
drives before the All Star break? He was at thirty seven eight afterwards.
That doesn't happen like by another team's design. It's not like the league suddenly
figured. Yeah, and look, I am in awe of I still think
there's an element of like what I'm concerned with Scotty Barnes, where I want
Pascal Siak can be able to move quicker in these slower situations, but he
is such like this lateral shiftiness with the ball in his hands that Scotty doesn't
yet have. And so it's like, if you're not going to surround them
with more spacing. You kind of need Scotty to take a like a half
core ball handering trajectory from Pascal Siakam if you want him to even come close
to maximizing. But I'm with you, and I find the talk of I
think it's clear the Raptors have shown that they will let Pascal Siakan get the
free agency just because we saw it with Fred, we saw it with Kyle
Lowry. But what is what is stress for that MESSI think about me,
right, and so yeah, think about him on MASSI come on, what
is more likely? Though? Is it more likely that he signs an extension
or that he gets traded. I'm not saying those are the only two options,
but what do you think is more likely? I hate to say that
this comes back down to what Okay, I'm gonna I'm not gonna say that.
I And here's the craziest thing is if you ask me this last season
about Freve Mvleet Day Tren Junior, and if I knew that Yako Hurdle was
coming, I'd be like, they all sign back. It is easy,
it's done. And that didn't happen. I did not foresee again, he
may get taking over the Houston situation and loving Freve m Leet as much as
he supposed apparently does. So, yeah, so I would still bank on
Pascal coming back. You look around the league, how many teams really have
cap spaceed number one? Every team is scared of the second April number two.
I actually don't know who has Capspasers probably look at that. So I
can be worried some more, but not like I'm like, yeah, I
was thinking that. I was thinking that. It's like, so, so
I think that there is a strong chance that he does resign with the Raptors.
I will say this though, regardless of if he makes all NBA,
I don't really believe the Raptors are giving him that supermass. No, that's
the oddest bit of reporting to me. I understand why he would want to
be super max eligible, because even just saying I'm super max selligible even if
you don't sign it. But this idea that he wouldn't resign with another team
because he wants to be super max elligible. The Raptors have have proven they're
not going to pay that money. They're just by letting Fred walk, and
so I don't if he leaves, I don't think if factors into that.
I just think it would be if they let him get to free agency he's
not happy there, or maybe they were really low balling in, but I
would be be super Max eligible and they gave him I would honestly probably faint
for me. Yeah, I don't like I can see him being Superre's here's
where I'll say, maybe if he's first team All NBA and it's like there
was no one else that was going to take one of those forward spots from
him. I love Pascal, don't really foresee that happening this season, but
that might be a scenario where it's like, all right, he's he's one
of the two best forwards in basketball right now, especially without because the positions
are gone now right from all three with guards, like, oh, it's
gonna be Luca. There's no positions. I completely forgot that. So if
he makes first team All NBA, you might have to suit just because So
here's a if he makes first team All NBA, Sorry, Stephan Curry,
you're splitting those boats with Chris Paul apparently, Oh that'd be the best.
Chris Paul just gets some All NBA botes. Okay, So yeah, so
like that would be a scenario where I think they would pay him that.
Outside of that, I don't think that they're gonna give him the Supermax,
but I still think he'll stay. I mean, Yaka Peodle's his best friend,
right, they traded for Yaka Purdle. I think Pascal had a lot
to do with that they kept him. I think he stays. What is
who's more important to that dynamic working? Like when you're looking at this,
I'll call it the front court of like Scottie Barnes, Yacca Peardle, and
Pascal's Yakam because Peardle, they all in fury want to occupy the same space,
just in different ways. Is it Yakham because he's going to be the
guy that's dotting up around like Scotty Barnes getting into the pain or if there's
a Yaka Peartles, Scotty Barnes picking roll or is it Scotty Barnes because it's
like, hey, you need a better facilitating here. Someone's gonna make some
better decisions maybe once he gets into the pain and then you also need him,
like yeah, he's gonna be dotting the arc when Pascos Yack, Like
who's more important to this sort of and how does Yaka Peartle sort of factor
in here? Does he gets squeezed of like minutes and crunch time because they
don't necessarily want to play with that many non shooters on the court, and
then we all know about how he is at the foul line, So like
what like that dynamic is just so like who's of the three, Who's who's
it on the most to make it work? That's a good question. I
do think that they'll certainly go down Yaka's minutes, we'll go down. We
saw that already. There was a huge game in February that Scotty Barnes won
at the five, but he played the five in that fourth quarter and he
absolutely won the team the game. And that was against Chicago Bulls in right
after the trade deadline, and I think that that's Looking at that, I
was like, okay, this is what because those were questions that people had
last season when they thought everybody was running it back as well. And you
looked at that sort of game and we're like, okay, this is your
closing lineup against certain teams, It's going to be Scotty Barnes at the five.
It's not going to be Yaca Purtle in these situations, and I think
that we're going to continue to see that, So I think his minutes,
his minutes will definitely get squeezed. Who do I think is I think it's
got to be Pascal Siakam? I do I think it's got to be Pascal
Siakam. I can see maybe it's Scottie. If Scotty, I think it's
gotta be Pascal Siam. I'm gonna say that it's it's it's got to come
down to him, just because yeah, he is your best player and he's
got to be. He's also I can see Pascal taking Oh, it's it's
just that I was going to say something, and then I just remember it
is a contract year and the Supermax is available. Even if he does not
get it, he's still going for it. So I'm going to delete what
I was about to say because it's not happening. He's he's not he's not
doing that sort of og. Just going to stay back here. Yeah,
I'm just very curious because like Fred van Fleet assisted on like thirty three percent
of Jakob's buckets last year after he came to Toronto, So it's like that
chair is going to have to come from someone else, and I mean Dennis
Shrewder sure like it's like Scottie or Pascal is gonna like you have to ratchet
up like the connection they have with him. I like. Also again with
Dennis, it's like and like, I'm glad that they brought in a point
like a traditional point guard, but again because of his lack of pull up
shooting. We even saw it with his success in Germany, which I think
a lot of Raptor fans are hoping he can replicate here. That team is
built very different than this Raptor's team because of the shooting that they have,
right, Like, it is a different sort of look. And when you
have a guy who, yeah, like are you going to run pick and
roll? With Dennis Schroeder and Yako Portal. I think if you look at
the numbers last year with the Lakers, it worked in lineups where again there
was shooting, like you're just you need to have that, And I think
I just I just don't understand how teams just don't go under every single time
on anything the Raptors do. It's just going to Yeah, the lack of
shooting is gonna is going to be a real issue, especially if you start
Dennis Schroeder, O Gianna Nobi, Pascal Siakam, Scottie Barnes and Yaka Purdle.
If that's your starting five, we're going to see that being an issue
immediately. Sort of lost in all this, we haven't really talked to him
about him that much. O Gianna Obi. Yeah, in a contract year
has shift? Has the ship sailed on on ball? O Gianna Nobi though,
Like, I really want to see it, But I feel like each
year, I I like I'm a little bit lower on it over the past
couple And that's fair, that's fair. I think we've seen him with some
clips at Stephen Curry's camp. He's at Stephen Curry's camp. Uh, And
I think there have been some some I don't know, what do they do,
dribble a ball with two hands, dribble two ball, didn't want any
chance. We're seeing some dribbling worked outs happening. I think I don't think
it's over. I don't think it's over. And I think what this Raptors
team always is when you look at a team that has we've talked, we
just keep repeating. When you look at a team that has as many I
don't want to call them redundant players because they're not. They do have separate
skill sets. But when you look at teams that have similar size, yeah,
yeah, redundancy of weaknesses or just similarly sized guys. The whole idea,
especially if Og is going to be your two, is just attacking mismatches.
That's going to be a ton of what the Raptors are going to be
looking to do. And so I think we're going to see all ball reps
from all three of the main guys that we're talking about here. I think
we're going to see a lot of it. I don't think it's just going
to be point Scotty, let him run, or point Pascal, you let
him run. I think we're going to see a lot of guys really get
into the mix of things, even like we've seen some sort of you know,
dribble handoff action from a guy like Jaka Purtle. He was sort of
a hub for San Antonio when he was there as well. So I think
that the offense that we're going to be getting is going to have a lot
of different attacks, and I think a lot of that is going to fall
on like hey, O g you want to have more reps. For as
much as we're talking about Scottie wanting to have more reps, every single rumor
for the last two years has been Og wanting to have more reps, wanting
to have the ball in his hands, wanting to see what he can do.
And I think Og can do it. And I think one thing again,
me and this is me looking back at the numbers from like last year
and the year before Oge's like ISO numbers were terrible to start the year,
not last season, but the season before that, and that's because Pascal was
gone, and that's because there was not a single shooter on the court alongside
him for a good chunk of those minutes. And so I think he was
like in the eleventh percentile if I remember that correctly, it was. It
was bad. And then the playoffs came around and he jumped up to like
the eighty eight percentiles or something like that, and it was like, Oh,
when you put shooters around Og and you give Og and and Obi the
ball, he can actually create stuff? Can he create things for other people?
That's going to be sort of the next step in his in his evolution
and in his growth. But I think we're going to start to see more
on ball reps. The only thing that I'm worried about is again, you're
having no shooting. And maybe that's something that Pascal can make something out of
nothing out of. But ken Og and Scottie proove that they can do the
same. That's the test. It's so funny how we have to ascribe and
I'm like, I'm legitimately saying this the caveat of but they have negative spacing
everything, because I just look at it, just like he had a higher
turnover rate than assist rate on his drive last year. I was like,
no, but then it's like, well he's working with negative spaces, Like
let's like, let's still hold out hope for It's just funny that we have
to apply that that caveat when your own teammates are in your way. But
it's like year three of that caveat, and so it's like, why why
are we still do? So it's why are we still doing And they just
gave up their best shooter who was additioned by subtraction. Oh god, yeah,
yeah, it's not great. It's not great. So I have two
questions about Gary Trent Junior. One that's like related to the bigger picture of
the raptors. But what like he opts in and then there was reports about
an extension is coming, and we're recording this on September nineteenth. There's no
Scott. There's no Gary Trent Junior extension to the best of my knowledge,
and they're like, what's going on there. I'm gonna be honest. I
was way more surprised about hearing that there was an extension that was coming,
So it's not happening. I was like, Okay, it makes sense because
I was surprised by that, by that rumor. It to me. I
think with this summer showed us with Gary Trenchors, I think he tested the
market as he should, and there wasn't one out there for him in the
way that I think he had wanted and maybe expected at the start of last
season. I think by December, you know, when Nick Nurse was mentioned
him and all this other stuff, I think, if you would have told
me would he stay every would he goes? But he's out the door,
like someone is giving him that money and he's out the door. But then
the second half of the season happened, and what we saw is, yes,
this team desperately needs shooting, so maybe the Raptors should hold on to
him for dear life. But when when all you can do is shoot and
that shooting goes away as we saw in April. Not to dis like,
not to disparage or disrespect Gary Trent Junior, who I think had a really
good year for the Raptors this season. Prior he lad I think the league
and steals for a good chunk of the year, he took a step back
defensively. And you we're talking about on ball reps for og, we're talking
about on ball reps for Pascal, all of the four words. Why are
we not talking about it about the one guard that you have like that that's
an issue when you're the one guard that you have. When we're talking about,
oh, you need someone who can run the offense for the second unit,
Well you have a twenty three year old guard here that you brought in,
but that's not something that he can do. And I think what we're
starting to see is like the limitations of a Gary Trent Junior type player.
I also think, you know, the summers that Jordan Pool and Tyler Hero
had maybe don't bode well for a player like that, and they all better
playmakers, better him. Layers can do more things than a guy like Gary
tren Junior you can do. But I think we're starting to see the limitations
of when you can just shoot, what else can you do? And I
think this is a really big year for Gary to prove that again. He's
young. Again, there's no reason to not believe that he can improve and
do all these other things. But how he fits if he's the one who
is tasked to man the second line, the second unit, can we get
put the ball in your hands and trust that something will come out. I
also think that, like I was going through the numbers, I wish I
had them memorized right now. But his numbers when he's playing alongside a guy
like Pascal Siakam versus not like we're talking about Pascal really needing the shooting.
But boy, oh boy, does Gary tren Junior looked like a much better
player when Pascal Siakam was on the court versus not there, which Pascal,
it is perfect and if you can keep your raptors, do it regardless of
the cost. But yeah, so I think with Gary treng Jor, there's
a lot of questions it's more so what can you do? And I think
until he proves that, not just to other teams, but to the Raptors
as well, I'd be surprised to see an extension come out unless it is
a very team friendly deal. And if I'm Gary Trent Junior, I'd rather
prove it. I'd rather bet on myself than sign a super team friendly deal,
because you just had a really bad second half of the season, and
he's still young enough to improve and still looking at his weaknesses and so like
you mentioned the passing, and just like there was I looked this up in
preparation of the podcast. It was one hundred and forty two players finished at
least two hundred drives last year. Gary Trenjior had the fourth lowest assist rate
among those players, and part of that, again could be the negative spacing.
We have to throw that caveat in there. How many of those were
in transition and there was someone running alongside and I don't know, but like,
given that, and then also how much you need his shooting. His
off the dribble three point clip fell off last year, but at least you
know he's a guy that could do that. It's a little bit sure list
it actually makes and knowing you want to put the ball in Scotty's hands and
you wanted in Pascal's hands, is there a merit to, hey, why
don't we start Gary Trent Junior and we'll bring Dennis Shrewder off the bench to
run some of the second unit stuff. Or is that not something you think
the Raptors are gonna end up considering? Honestly, I think initially that's what
I thought it would be for that exact reason. I think Gary Trend Junior
matters so much to what this team looks like. You know, I wasn't
trying to disparage him. I actually think that he is important to what this
team looks like because of that pull up shooting, Because I mean, you're
Grady Dick hasn't played a single second of NBA basketball, So I'll give it
to Gary Grady and Gary. Wow. I didn't realize how similar that sounded,
but no, I think I think it's definitely got to be Gary treng
j. I initially thought that he was going to start for that reason,
and you were just going to run with point Scottie, point Yakom when you
can figure things out that way, but hearing the Dennis Schroeder came to the
Raptor specifically because of Darko Ryakovich and Dennis Shroeder expects to start, I was
like, Oh, maybe some things we've been talked about there, maybe it
makes more sense to have, you know, an actual point guard like that.
You can try Rapper friends, Scotty Barnes canna be that person. But
maybe right from the jump in game one. So yeah, it wouldn't surprise
me either way. I think that that's the biggest debate that's happening right now.
And Gary tren Jor definitely for his facing makes more sense with the starting
lineup. He also just I think he fits more seamlessly with the starting lineup.
But yeah, I honestly I think to start out, I probably would
start Gary. If the bet is that Scotty can be that person for you,
I would start Gary and have Dannish coming off Dennis coming off the bench.
But hearing Dennis say that, it seems like maybe he believes that he's
Maybe it's a Chris Paul situation that we're having here in Toronto as well.
Bring it full circle, Nas shoulder our Chris Paul. Oh God, I
want to be very careful. And when I was doing the outline, may
know this because I caught shit for the way I phrased it on draft night.
As you can imagine, what did you think of the Grady Dick selection
and how much of a role to expect him to play in year one for
this team. I liked it because this team desperately needs shooting. And I
liked it because it's Yes, he's six eight, so you're like, oh,
yeah, the Raptors took another six eight guy, but kind of the
opposite of everybody else the Raptors have picked. Like we we talked about it.
It's like, oh, yeah, the Raptors are gonna draft somebody.
Oh another forward who's six eight and you know some of the long wingspan,
can defend, can't shoot still, and like, finally they got a guy
who can shoot. That is his skill set. It also like he's a
little slow footed, He's not, you know, the type of player that
the Raptors generally take. But he changed the vibes immediately in Toronto. So
for a team that really was struggling until a team Canada came and saved us
this summer with the Bronze Baby, which we sell it, you know,
like that meme where the guys like pouring champagne all over himself and then it
cans out. It's like he won bronze, not even gold. That was
us. But yeah, so I think then that the big deal. As
you mentioned, Canada hasn't been in the Olympics since two thousand, which I
didn't even realize. This is absolutely this is the first medal I think,
Yeah, this is definitely the first medal team Canada's ever gotten in FIBA basketball.
I'm not sure if they won one an Olympics basketball and Olympic basketball.
If it happened, it happened in like nineteen thirty six or something, so
this is a good moment to celebrate. Yeah. Anyways, besides, besides
the Olympic team, I think that Gary should start. That was my initial
guess, but hearing Jenner Shoulder's comments, I kind of believe that maybe that's
not how the Raptors will go to start the season, and so you don't
anticipate them like leaning too heavily then on like Grady Dick just because of like
year one stuff. Not as a starter obviously, but just hey, we
need shooting. Let's by the way you mentioned, not really a Raptor's pick.
If Jet Howard was on the board just because of like the wingspan differentially,
absolutely would have just went with Jet. If it was between Grady Dick
and Jet Howard, that would have been the Raptors pick. But I Slabali
that's who I had all of my hopes Onhington. That was the most Raptorus
pick imaginable because they're laying the groundwork for Victor when Yam weben Yama's recruitment in
like twenty thirty, whenever he hits free agency for the first time. Whatever,
I gotta deal with Jannis and Dame first and Beat. I'm kind of
reluctant, but I'm gonna hop on the bandwagon if we miss out and then
Victor were coming from you. So this is like when looking at all these
anclary players, Well, actually I have to ask, this isn't next centering
an accessory player? Where are you at? I'm precious Chua right now.
After last season, which we know injuries sort of like made it stop and
start for him, But where where are you at? We were both so
unfathomably high on him last year. Where are you this year? Huh?
I love him. I think he's perfect, and sometimes they're growing pains,
I know. So here's the thing I think with with Precious to Chua,
he definitely took a step back last season, and in j he's definitely played
a part. He also, I think this is sort of the the issue
with Precious even the year before, is for a guy who can do so
much, he tries to do too much and finding that spot and finding your
role, and again it's going to be very difficult for him to do on
a team with zero spacing because he comes in and is like, I'm that
guy, you know, and I want him to be. You know,
I did a very bad photoshop of Max Hallerman saying he wants to take Udala
to take that three point shot if the world is about I don't know if
aliens are gonna you know that mean where he's like, yeah, aliens are
coming over. I put a true in there because that's who I want to
take that shot. But that's also who Precious wants to take that shot.
And sometimes Precious wants to take that shot with twenty seconds left on the shot
clock and they're being absolutely no reason to do. So that's a little bit
of an issue. But no, in all seriousness, I think I think
with Precious, he's young, we know what he is defensively, we know
what he can be. But I think I think this team, I think
his issue is that this team doesn't fit him more than anything, and there's
got to be someone that falls out. I think that has to be a
guy like Precious. And I hate saying that because he's also still just my
favorite player. But we're starting to see what the sort of cracks are when
you have a team where what you need from your bench players, what you
need from your role players, what you need from all those other guys is
not more of the same of what you're getting from your starters. And again
it's not that it's redundant, but the weaknesses are redundant. And I think
that that's I think that's a little bit of an issue. And I can't
believe I'm saying that. I did not expect to be talking negatively about Precious
Chua, but yeah, I think I think if this team needs to find
a direction, it's like, but maybe the direction is they were moving off
of Pascal Siakam and there is a role for for a guy like Precious Chua.
Coming off the bench. But if you have just too many of guys
who just can't shoot, it becomes a major, major issue. It would
be pretty surprising if he got an extension, right, precious A Chua.
Yeah, I think off the year that he just had. I would be
very surprised everybody's healthy. Who plays a bigger role among these three or who's
more important to this team? Jayleen McDaniels, Otto Porter Junior or Chris Bouchett
Junior? Oh my god, can you imagine? Can you imagine if they
had outo Porter Junior last year? I mean a rumor has it they did.
We just didn't. We just didn't see it. But I think he
couldn't imagine if they had Auto Porter Junior and not Nick Norse last year.
Let me, he's like, they're gonna need him to play like he's so
there's Gary Trent Jr. And let's just let's have some confidence in Grady Dick.
I think it's a really good shooter. An underrated team defender is like
Auto Porter Junior their third best shooter. Who else? I don't think it's
I don't think we're even like OG. But even with OG, and I
think Oog has. I think Og has improved. We saw that last season
as well, But a lot of OG's looks come from the corner, and
for a guy who can just space the floor uh in Auto Porter Junior,
I think you sort of need that. Can you consistently get above the break
looks from a guy like og Na Noby? Can you consistently get looks from
on the wings or does he have to be deep in the corner in order
to hit whatever mark? I think I think just in terms of floor spacing,
it just matters so much more to be able to do that across the
board, and I think that's something that Otto can do that I'd like to
see more consistently from Ogi. Before I say that, because yeah, he's
slotted in the corner. That's the role that he had to play. So
that's not a knock on him. That's where the raptors sort of forced him
to be, but that's where he has hit his deadliest marks. But yeah,
I put him there for now just because he's going to be playing more
and it's going to be taking away more of those shots. But yeah,
it's not it's it's a steep drop off after that. It's I'm I really
like Jay and McDaniels. I hate him on this team. It's like where
that's why, so like Otto looks Becausejail McDaniels can guard like up and down
a little bit more than Gotto Porter Junior's gotten a lot slower. But just
McDaniels is such an at best like sub below average shooter, and like the
Raptors just need someone who can put up like five six attempts per thirty six
minutes and hit them in an above average clip. I think that's Otto Porter
Junior. I just questioned, like, what can he guard defensively now at
this point in his career because you might be in a situation where it's like,
oh look another big, it's not really a wing. I also,
I will Chris Bruche is my Sirens song just full stop. He's someone I
feel like it could be sneaky important if the three pointers starts falling again,
just to be like, hey, we can build lineups off the bench where
it's like we're staggering Scotty and Pascal or even if it's Dennish or whatever,
and we have three shooters on the court somehow, like it's Gary, Trent
Junior and Chris Brusche and Otto Porter Junior and like it's working or so I
think he could be sneaky important. But I agree with you that I think
it's Otto Porter Juniors because of when he's healthy, he feels like the most
known or predictable quantity of the three on offense. Oh definitely, because like
I think the the sort of spectrum that a guy like Chris Bouche is operating
off of offensively is night and day. If that three point shot is there,
then I would definitely have it be Chris Bouche. But also like it's
Chris Bouche here for the long haul, Like is that a player that gets
moved? I sort of look at precious in Chris Bouchet, and I'm like,
if the Raptors are looking to make some moves and to improve, are
they you know, two names that get tossed into his additional salary and something
or I don't know something there, Like I wonder what Chris Buche. I
think he might even be expiring soon. So that's that's sort of the big
the big question to me at least in terms of looking at this team long
term. But I love Chris Bouche, so do I he is. He's
pure anarchy though in both great and terrible ways. But it's fun when you're
winning the great. Yes, Chris bouche sperience is excellent when you're winning,
and or Chris Machetti is playing great, and it's also like, hey,
it's it's it's fun if you're relying on a Chris Bouchet or precious a Chua.
It's a lot when you got both of them that you got to rely
on because of the swing, especially their offensively for both of them and their
their belief in their three point shot. Let's put it that way. Would
you need hey take it? You need the team to take it? So
so keep defense? Is honest? Is there when you look at this personnel,
are they built? Like what is the pathway? Really? Just they
need to hit more threes for them to improve upon the half court offense,
which was basically bottom five last year. It was even worse after they were
like in bouncing the ball after made shot. Is it just we've talked about
shooting a negative spacing. Does it really just come down to that or is
there any other swing factors on this roster that could help measurably improve that standing?
Yeah, certainly ball movement and off ball cutting. This is a team
that stood around quite a last year. We saw a lot of your turn,
My turn, which I think a big reason why people are happy that
prevent lead is gone again. I don't want to fault him too much for
that. I think that that is comes down to coaching. But you saw
a lot of your turn, My turn, and you're having Darko come in
and saying that he's going to revamp a lot of that. So, yes,
spacing does help if you are going to be moving the ball a ton.
It helps if guys are you know, if you have legitimate spacing there.
But I think we didn't see a whole lot of off ball cuts.
That's something that Chris Biche and Passis Chua can both do really really well.
Actually, Like I think that if you're looking for an offense, it doesn't
just have okay, balls in Pascal's hands, balls in Fred's hands, go
do something everybody stand around and watch and actually uses the athleticism and the speed
of guys like prescious to Chew and Chris Biche, they can actually be really
important to what this team looks like. I take back everything that I say
because I think that, Like, I think that Preciouses can be one of
Like just his cutting can be phenomenal. He doesn't make those right reads.
Ball movement is going to be really really important. Just getting other people involved
a lot more something that I think is what this team is going to come.
But like when it comes down to, like, can they have an
elite or not even an elite but above average half court offense, I don't
see it. I don't see it because I think you need pull up shooting.
I think teams just need it. It's not just catch and shoot guys.
It's not just like the lack of three point shooters is one thing,
but the lack of a pull up threat single one is another thing. Like
I think that matters. I think that matters in terms of team building,
and so I don't expect that they will be a top fifteen offense, but
I think it's very likely that they are a top ten and maybe even higher
defense. And your again getting looks in transition, which is kind of what
this Raptors team has built their bead and butter on. Outside of Kawhi Leonard,
when was the last time that this Raptors team was good was a good
half court offense, It's been a long time. Even when they had Fred
VanVleet and Kyle Lowry, right Like, even when they had both of those
guys, they were still a bad half court offense team. They just got
a lot of stops and ran out. And that's kind of what this Dactor's
team is built to do. Are you ready for the cookie cutter portion of
the past. Yeah? Are there any strengths or weaknesses concerns about this team
that you have that you'll be monitoring entering this season that we have not talked
about yet? So I can't say shooting, Okay, you have to preface
anything you say with the father they have negative spacing, because that is negative
spacing. Can you Yeah, So some things that I am worried about,
or even if that you're saying, what's good about this team that we're not
talking of, like anything that we just haven't hit yet. I'm gonna be
honest. I was really high on this team last year, and had they
brought Red VanVleet black back, I would be really high on this team this
year. I can't say I struggle here. Here's here's what I'll say.
A large part of this season, as I mentioned comes down to what their
young guys look like. And I think people are discrediting and discounting how good
those next guys can those guys can be. And I think people are really
discrediting how good Pascal Siakin can be if he's not playing forty minutes a night
and not dealing with a groin injury that he gets early on. So I
think that there's a lot of talent on this team. Oh, Gianna Noby
is still incredibly talented, and I think people are just really discounting the amount
of talent that's still left on the Raptors team. Just because they haven't been
able to make it work doesn't mean it can't work, and this is still
a really talented roster. I think what's interesting about you mentioning that is I
don't know if they all compliment one another, but if you just get better
health from pressures a Chua Otto Porter Jr. I think you could say there
are but he AT's played still last year's un like you have eight or nine
guys on this roster that you could say they belong in an NBA rotation.
I don't know that we've been able to say that no past two years,
No this is the deepest Raptors team since before Tampa. Yeah, I think,
yeah, this is this is the deepest Raptors team since before Tampa.
Yeah, that's a great point. So to that end, what does the
ten man rotation look like? I did jot it down. It feels like
there are seven locks, although you're making me think there might only be six
with what you said about Precious, but it's like, no, I think
Precious is still I would put Precious in. I changed my mind once I
realize Precious is my favorite cutter on this team. I forgot that I love
Precious to chew. It just took a minute. So I would say they
have seven locks that in Shrewder Barnes and an Obciakam Pearl, Gary Trent Junior,
and Precious a Chewa. How do you see it kind of like flushing
out after that because they have again more options there than they normally would have
after the sixth and seventh guy. Yeah, Like, so beyond beyond that
top seven, who do I think makes so? Who did you just mention?
So we have Precious, Gary Tren Junior, Dennis Shooter, Scottie Barnes,
Pascal Siakambaka, Purdle. I think Grady Dick definitely slots in some I
think you, I think you have Grady Dick. I think auto Porter is
necessary. This team needs shooting. You have a shooter on the roster.
Yes, defense will be a problem, but this team could really use a
guy like auto Porter, So I'd have him in there. And then Chris
By Andres. We mentioned Prussia's Chris bus Chris Bouche matters to this team.
He's a veteran presence on this team. He's been with them through a lot,
and he does the dirty work. He you know, you can play
him at the five as well, and this team needs a backup center.
Christian Coloco also speaking of a backup center, was really good for the Raptors
last year. When we're looking at he's so big, he's so big,
and you know, I think one of the one of the drawbacks of a
guy that Christian collocos he got really hit with that rookie whistle and you're hoping
that that can be approved on. And you're also not needing to rely on
him as much because you have Yaka Purdle already. But I think Christian Coloco
to play and has to be a part of this roster because we saw like
the numbers with him at the five versus him not there. Like the best
Raptors lineup last year was Christian Coloco at the five along with the four other
starters. That was the best lineup, and I think it was that for
a reason. So I think I think that this I think this team goes
ten deep, and I think we're going to see all guys get involved at
that. Easton I don't I don't have him in there. But oh Jaylen
McDaniels, I didn't mention. I don't think he was a part of that.
And I think McDaniels gets gets minutes here as well. Are they still
a team that you could see And I think they were one of the teams
that did this more than other teams, Like they will really pander to like
the matchups that they're facing on that particular night with how they're running their rotations.
Yeah, I think you have to when you have the limitations that this
team does. I think that that's sort of that's where you have to win
games. I think that's just by design, that's what this team is going
to do. Unless they can exact their sort of sheer force and will on
teams, which they might be able to do. But but I think you
have to play your ups with that in mind. Knowing they'll play their matchups,
what do you think they'll will end up being their best? They're most
relied upon crunch time unit. Is it just what we think the starting five
is? Do we even really know what the starting five is gonna be?
So okay to be that? Yeah, it's I don't I don't know that
there's a definitive starting five. I think that that's sort of the debate that's
out there, and I think after training camp will get a better understanding of
what that is. I would imagine that their best five has to include Scottie
og Pascal from there, I think I think I think yeah for shooting,
I think I was gonna say, I think Dennis and Trent. I think
we're going to see a lot of closing lineups that don't have a center in
them. I at least wouldn't be surprised by that. Maybe I'm wrong to
think that, but we saw it last year. We saw it just be
incredibly successful against teams, and yeah, I would imagine that you're going to
get a lot of closing lineups that don't have a yack of peardle in there.
But I'd imagine he's art every game or most games, is there a
quirky, weirdo unconventional lineup that you would like to see you and try the
sequel? Listen. So Vision six nine is not dead. Vision six nine
is on life support. But but I think the entire thing about Vision six
nine, which is all of your six nine and guys playing at one time,
the idea behind it was, this is a crazy matchup. You throw
it out there and oh my goodness, team's heads are going to break.
What do you mean they're one has to guard O Gian and OPI? What
do you mean there two or there one? There are two is going up
against path kal Yakam, Like what is what is this lineup? It makes
absolutely no sense? And you get to press your advantage as a ton.
The issue was they were like, this isn't going to be your wacky lineup
we throw out. This is gonna be the whole team. And that's an
issue like like the idea of like oh, versatility and you're you're gonna have
a bunch of guys go out there that can guard one through five everybody can
guard one through five or such a versatile team. That's not what versatility should
mean. Like there's there's a level of like malleability to what we're talking about,
which is we can play big, we can play small where we can
play a whole bunch of six nine guys, And that's not something that the
Rappers could do. Last year, they had one look that they can throw
out at you and that was it, and we saw that there were major
drawbacks to that. But that doesn't mean that Vision six nine isn't a fun
lineup to throw out there and a good lineup to throw out there. It's
when that's your only lineup there becomes major, major problems. So I still
think the wackiest lineup is the one that maybe Raptor fans hate right now,
and they probably hate because like it's like getting too much of a good thing,
it becomes gross. After a while, You're like, I don't want
candy, I want actual dinner. And now that you have real dinner without
shooting, maybe you can have some candy on the side, which is Vision
six nine. I don't it's weird because they don't. They're not built to
have weird on lineups because I think you can justify any lineup combination they roll
out there based off the construction of this roster. I would just like to
see, like what would it look like with Scottie Barnes and just our four
bestters and so that would be trent O g Grady Dick and then probably Otto
Porter Junior, like would be like plus Scotty Barnes, Like can we just
see that? Like, can we just see you with that line up?
I think that that. I think that the Raptor should definitely throw a lot
of that. I think you definitely. I think that Scotty was shooters,
Pascal was shooters. Those are definitely things that we should see for sure.
I wonder about that one though, could we get different like who is it
Gary Buche in there instead of like Otto Porter? If you're like but just
I'm just like give me this were you mentioned autos? Like, oh,
defensively, that will be a interesting line up to throw out there, especially
because like you want to get out there and just like run with a team
like that. It has no shot blocking really whatsoever that line up. So
I just give me, I just want to see sty but give me the
four best shooters on the team play. I would love that. I think
that that would be a lot of fun. Also, like get Pascal and
Scotty in there with three other shooters often let's see what that looks like,
which again ends up just being Pascal, Oji and Scotty. So we're not
doing anything. We're not doing anything interesting with the lineup like that. Yeah,
like that, that's what's the problem with this. It's just like they're
not really built to Like Vision six nine is almost like made them too sensible.
When you're looking at the lineup, combinations like crazy, they have to
do this, they have to do that, and that and that. So
yeah, it's like it's like someone who's been walking on their hands their whole
life and then you finally see them walk with their feet, but they're walking
backwards. You're like, yeah, it's close enough, you know, like
they got the direction right at least. But I think I think with like
even the idea of just Scotty and a bunch of shooters, which I like,
I like that idea, how long are you running with a guy like
that? Like, just I worry about what that sort of looks like when
it's like, all right, so Auto's in there, and you don't have
a guy like Yakub or a guy like Pascal in there, the defense is
not going to be all that great. There's just a lot of issues.
Get better shooters, get more shooters. Please, let's start to go fund
me or bring game. That's the train that I'm on right now. I'm
so sorry in Miami because that would be perfect. That would be perfect.
I remember you wrote I think it was you that wrote about this. It
was like very earlier in the off season. I feel like, yeah,
I am on board. Were you mentioned in there? You didn't phrase like
this, but like team not and there's only one team on there, but
team come out of the woodwork and acquire Damian Lillard. Give me. I
got in trouble with Okac thunder fans by saying they should trade for him.
Would love him. I would love him in Toronto, I would love him
in New Orleans. I mean it would be so good in Orlando or Magic
fans were mad when I suggested that, because like you guys, and I
love that you guys are mad because I want to have him. So if
my only competition is Miami, I think we still will lose. But like
I can feel a little bit more hopeful then like, oh, they have
an offer that can trump Oars. There would also just be something so it
would be like a poetic justice of sending Damian Lillard to the other Florida.
The Where'd be so funny. That'd be so funny. It'd be so funny.
I'm with you, please Canada, Canada. Like, that's what I
think the Raptors should just rebrand themselves, is like, oh, your superstar
wants out, Let's send him to Narnia or the closest thing, which is
Canada, and then just like banish them, Like let us be the team
that you banish your stars too, because they're misbehaving on your team. Kawhi,
it worked, Dame, let it happen, Jannis come through. I
think that that's what the Raptors should reband themselves as that would be hysterical.
Is this team is fascinating in the sense that because of everything you were just
talking about, it feels like the early portion of the season could very much
dictate like what like the first twenty games, if they're playing really well,
do they become a team that really ven does go on the trade market to
look for shooting or if they're playing really poorly, is it well, maybe
we start looking at Pascal trades again or og trades, or is it,
oh, we're playing poorly, we need to double down and acquires like they
did with Yaka Parton, like we're gonna try and acquire shooting. Do you
agree that? Like they're fascinating in that sense where it feels like they have
a bunch of different like mid season swing points that could sort of just based
off the first twenty games or so I could kind of determine how they're acting
from their transactionally. Yeah, for sure. I mean last season, at
around December, I'm like, okay, I've seen enough. You need to
get Yaka Purdle. And I was like, kem Birch and this pick for
Yaka Purdle. Now, MISSI, who's much smarter than me and gets paid
the big bucks, was like, not this bit, because that's gonna be
a lottery pick. Let's do next year's pick. And it happened, and
I was like finally, and everyone was like what are they doing? What
direction are they taking? And I'm like, no, guys, you don't
understand. This is the issue. This is what they're missing. They need
it. And it worked. And my logic and my reasoning behind that was
when you had Demarta Rosen and Kyle Lowry, what the Raptors did was they
brought in a bunch of different guys. You're in and you're out to try
to mask the deficiencies of a guy like Dmarta Rosen, for example, right
like, he can't he's not a he can't guard and he can't shoot.
Okay, let's bring in a three and D you Wing and Mary Carroll.
Let's bring in PJ. Tucker, who can space the floor at the four.
Let's bring in Sergyback who can space the floor at the floor. It
was urine and you're out, just trying to mask the deficiencies to try and
build the best roster that you had. Now, they didn't have multiple years
to do that with this core. They had one trade deadline, and the
deficiency that they had was at the five. We saw that that was the
biggest issue, and so to me, it was like, Okay, if
you want to bet on this team, if you want to bet on Fred
van Vliet, Pascal Siaka Mojan and Nobe, Scottie Barnes, Garrett Nching,
you the whole lot if you want to bet on them put them in a
position to actually win. And to do that, I think you needed shooting
and you needed a floor spacer. They didn't get the shooting, but they
got not the floor spacer and they got the room protector. And so to
me, it was like, this is the deal that you have to make
to try and see what this team looks like. And we saw it.
And by the numbers, the starting lineup was really good and they were top
five net rating after Yaka Purtle came in. Their bench was just I think
far and away the worst in the league. By the numbers there. You
could look it up, but I'm pretty sure the bench was dead last and
the starters were top five in that rating. And so it's like you saw
what they could be in order to buy into this team. And I think
for this season how it changes is, yes, you need to see what
this team looks like before you decide. Again, if Pascal is going to
be your guy moving forward, If OG like what that sort of looks like,
can you build around an OG and a Scotty timeline? Do the pieces
make sense together? I think you need to sort of work that out.
As I mentioned, I think the start of the season is really looking at
what Scotty Barnes looks like and what the next step for him is. Is
he a win now player? Because then in that case, why are you
trading Pascal Siakam. You might as well keep them or not. But because
both Og and Pascal are potential expirings, you have to make that decision pretty
quickly. I don't think you can wait as long as the Raptors did last
season by waiting all the way until the deadline and then pri Emily it is
gone. I think they has to come a little bit sooner. So I
think the early part of the season matters way more now because they just saw
what happened last season. But I still think again, you gotta make moves
to see what this team looks like, and if they can't be maximized and
it doesn't work like it didn't with Tomorrow after years and years and years,
then okay, it's time to trade that player. As we record this on
September nineteenth, their win total is set at thirty six point five, which
is ten wins fewer than last year. I don't I haven't looked, but
aside from the Wizards, that has to be the biggest drop in win productions
with me, my guests, Are you taking the over the under on that?
Yeah, I think that over and under was really set because no one
knows if they're going to make him in season trade right, So we could
be talking about a team that doesn't have a Pascal Siakam on it because I
don't know they traded him for Kobe Buffin and Bogdan Bogdanovic. So I think
it really just depends on do I think this team will stay together, because
I think if they stay together, they should be over thirty six wins.
And I'm gonna say, yeah, I think that Pascal Siakam is a raptor
by the end of the season, I would probably we haven't done or over
under someone reveal, but I will say I agree with you, just because
I think it's more likely that and so much can happen. I think it's
more likely that they triple down on the trade market again than they become these
just sellers because they can't make I would just be flapp or gased if they
make the same mistake with Red van Fleet that they did with Sia, like
if they would both Siakim and Ananobe. I'm not saying they extensions because I
don't think's gonna sign an extension, but I think him, I just don't
think they're gonna be traded at least, and so I think that's why that
total seems a little bit lower. And I also would expect that because of
the nature of keeping them, you almost have to make a move on the
trade market because you don't want to like let this season go to waste when
stuff could happen and we don't have a pick. Yeah, that's a great
point, but you could be like the fifth worst team in basketball. And
that's true, that is true, but please don't have a pick this season.
And I will say, and I'm not sure if this you know,
a team like the Pacers and like other teams where the East is so wide
open, does it benefit or hurt the Raptors there, because I think with
if you're being like, let's be real, there's the Calves. I don't
love Boston after their Porzingis trade, But there's Boston and there's Milwaukee. I
think are the three teams that you could say, Okay, they're better than
everyone else. And then I don't know what's going on in Philly with Harden
Dame's not in Miami just yet, and so even if you want to throw
okay, Dame's gonna go to Miami, we'll throw them there. Like,
that's four teams that you could say are better than that kind of morass of
teams below them, where it's okay, I could see the Knicks being fifth,
but I could see the Raptors, or I could see the Pacers,
I could see the Hawks being there. Does that help or hurt the Raptors?
Do you think that relative wide openness in the let's call it the like
middle, the meat and potatoes of the East. I think I think it
has historically helped, because we saw this a decade ago when you have the
sort of Heatles dismantling and the Pacers trade did Granger, and for some reason,
that team just could after that. But so I think we saw miss
I be like, okay, yeah, the East is wide open, even
though we have this very middling team, let's double down on this. And
that's what they did, right, So, because the East was wide open
and it wasn't a particularly good team, they just happened to trade away Rudy
Gay and suddenly they decided to start winning basketball games. But so I think
we've seen Massi sort of take that approach in a wide open East before,
and it made the Raptors the winningest team in the Eastern Conference in the decade,
mainly because the East was wide open when they decided to take that step.
So it wouldn't surprise me if that's the thing that's done now, except
the difference would be they have a Scottie Barnes who's like a twenty one year
old that they can build around versus or twenty two year old. I don't
hold years versus at that time to Marv was a little bit older. Kyle
had just kind of came in and he was, you know, in his
late twenties, so it's a little bit different. But to me, it's
just like what we've seen Missi Jerry do in the past. Is that.
I mean, even when he was in Denver, it was like, no,
we're not gonna tank, We're going to trade away our superstar to get
pieces back and continue to win. And they won what like fifty seven games
that year after trading Carmelo. So what we've seen from the Saia gear is
a reluctancy to go towards the bottom and build up from the middle and if
he sees a wide open path and he's like, why can't our team be
at the top of that, which is exactly what happened to Denver when he
was there, and what happened to the Raptors. So, like, I
don't know, his track record says the last two times he's been in this
situation, he went on to win because he thought, Hey, it's open,
why not? But I don't know. That's a great point after eighty
minutes about is there anything that we haven't Sorry I talked about it, asked
you about that we haven't needs to be touched upon. Yeah, no,
I mean the Raptors needs shooting. Isn't that what this comes down to?
Oh, we didn't mention that. I can't wieve we've gotten this long without
talking about the lack of, you know, a pull up threat on the
team catch and shoot guys. But but in all seriousness, I think Pascal
can really take that next step. I think Scottie can take that next step
even in terms of their shooting, and maybe get some more of that from
from Ogi. Maybe maybe stuff is teaching og the the secrets to being the
deadliest pull up shooter in up from the just off a half court. Oh
my gosh, can imagine the first possession and just like oh she wouldn't.
Oh oh wait what contract? Rog's on some stuff like I'm honor you able
to tell our listeners where they can find you in all the great work that
you do. Yeah, you can buy me on Twitter as long as it
exists. Have him on underscore Adam also, please do check out pros and
clause to sub sack. And I'm hoping to have that Chris Paul Golden Fate
Warriors piece coming out soon and we'll be talking a lot of raptors on there
as well. And then of course I'm with Yeah Sports Canada, you're gonna
see a lot of video essays this year pod but yeah, a lot of
in some shorts too, because the kids, their attention spans not a look.
We have built a YouTube and TikTok following based off stuff that has nothing
to do with the podcast we are actually recording. They're just me and my
co hosts like yelling two word answers at each other because that's the content that
gets shared, and that's the content people like I'm here. I'm here for
the I'm here was King, Hey, I'm on. Thank you so much
for coming on. It always means a lot when we can get veteran guests
they keep agreeing to come back, and you are one of them at this
point, so I very much appreciate it. Your time. You're insighting sure,
as you know by now, I'll be pesturing you again in the future.
So thanks so much. Oh Willy, it's better things to talk about
that time. Maybe all of like, maybe we just reverse chinks it.
Last year we were way too high on them. This year, it's not
they're bad crap. The next time we talk, we'll probably talk about their
excess at shooting. They have too much that the content we did that too much shooting