WEBVTT 1 00:00:40.479 --> 00:00:46.479 Hello, and welcome to Open Minds Radio. This is your host Alejandro Rojas, 2 00:00:46.479 --> 00:00:54.200 and I am here with my good buddy Jason mccloen. Hello Alejandro, 3 00:00:54.240 --> 00:00:59.240 and hello everybody. Yeah. I'm really excited because, you know, we 4 00:00:59.280 --> 00:01:02.439 moved to this new office and I'm sure people could hear in the background, 5 00:01:02.880 --> 00:01:07.359 people like in the microwave and getting water and ice and stuff. But fighting 6 00:01:07.400 --> 00:01:12.319 over coffee, yeah, fighting and general also slap boxing. Yeah, lot 7 00:01:12.319 --> 00:01:15.799 of that going on. Yeah. Sometimes they get upset with each other and 8 00:01:15.799 --> 00:01:18.120 they kind of slap each other. Yeah, a little bit, pull each 9 00:01:18.120 --> 00:01:22.480 other's hair. That's office. Yeah, offices work, yeah, exactly. 10 00:01:23.239 --> 00:01:29.159 So now we are in our conference room with some microphones to hopefully have things 11 00:01:29.200 --> 00:01:33.079 sound a little better, and they sounds great. You sound great, Jason, 12 00:01:33.319 --> 00:01:36.519 Well, I always sound great, But thank you for finally finally noticing 13 00:01:36.840 --> 00:01:42.519 you are sounding wonderful this morning. Excellent. Speaking of wonderful, our guest 14 00:01:42.599 --> 00:01:47.680 this week is wonderful. It is Linda Zimmerman and I'm really excited because I 15 00:01:47.920 --> 00:01:51.840 wanted to talk to her for a while. She wrote a book called Hudson 16 00:01:51.920 --> 00:01:56.840 Valley UFOs, and she's written a couple books Into the Night Sky, all 17 00:01:56.879 --> 00:02:00.719 about UFOs in New York. So we talked to her about how she got 18 00:02:00.760 --> 00:02:06.640 into this. She actually investigated paranormal for a while, but before that she 19 00:02:06.760 --> 00:02:10.759 was kind of a mainstream person who worked in science and stuff, and it's 20 00:02:10.800 --> 00:02:14.879 like, why would someone like this get involved with the paranormal. Well we'll 21 00:02:14.879 --> 00:02:17.560 find out why and just a little bit. So really fun to talk to 22 00:02:17.599 --> 00:02:23.960 her, and we'll have that on in a minute. Any other like big 23 00:02:23.000 --> 00:02:29.199 news, I feel like I'm forgetting something but I can't think of big news. 24 00:02:29.400 --> 00:02:31.039 Well I do have some big news when it comes to UFO news. 25 00:02:31.080 --> 00:02:35.800 Well that's good. Yeah, that's good when it comes to UFO News, 26 00:02:35.879 --> 00:02:38.879 which of course Jason and I cover every week. But first we want to 27 00:02:38.879 --> 00:02:44.639 say welcome to Roger Marsh. So this is really cool. Roger Marsh is 28 00:02:44.680 --> 00:02:51.199 the director of communications for mofon and he, as many of you know, 29 00:02:51.719 --> 00:02:55.800 writes about the sighting reports that MOFON gets. And it's cool because once in 30 00:02:55.800 --> 00:02:59.879 a while. First of all, she'll write about the latest and greatest sightings 31 00:03:00.199 --> 00:03:05.039 as they happen on a daily basis, but he also has kind of special 32 00:03:05.159 --> 00:03:08.719 access, or at least quicker access to look at the cases that have been 33 00:03:08.800 --> 00:03:14.719 resolved and determined to be unknowns, and so he's able to interview at least 34 00:03:14.759 --> 00:03:19.039 the investigators, sometimes even the witnesses and then write stories on that so you 35 00:03:19.080 --> 00:03:22.879 can kind of get the insight on the investigation on some of these things, 36 00:03:22.879 --> 00:03:27.919 which is cool too. And this is all part of the effort that move 37 00:03:28.000 --> 00:03:31.280 On has to release, you know, information as quick as possible to show 38 00:03:31.280 --> 00:03:35.759 that they are transparent, and you know they are. They do feel it's 39 00:03:35.759 --> 00:03:38.840 important to get people information as soon as possible, and they always have but 40 00:03:40.319 --> 00:03:44.400 we are very happy to be a part of it. And now Roger Marsh 41 00:03:44.439 --> 00:03:49.759 will be posting on Openminds dot tv. So last week we already started and 42 00:03:49.800 --> 00:03:53.400 we had a couple of cool sightings that we posted. One of them in 43 00:03:53.439 --> 00:03:55.400 particular, Well they've both done really good, a lot of people are interested, 44 00:03:55.759 --> 00:04:00.919 gotten a lot of hits. But our good buddy George Napplick reposted one 45 00:04:00.919 --> 00:04:02.479 of those, so we got a lot of hits on that one. And 46 00:04:02.520 --> 00:04:08.479 that's pretty interesting because it was an object that this this lady saw that she 47 00:04:08.599 --> 00:04:13.840 said, look to be football size, football field size. But that's a 48 00:04:13.840 --> 00:04:16.519 lot bigger, that's a bit, there's a big difference big different. Yeah, 49 00:04:16.600 --> 00:04:23.839 and a football field so sorry, football field so really huge UFO Pretty 50 00:04:23.879 --> 00:04:28.000 cool, So go to the site to check that out. However, I 51 00:04:28.079 --> 00:04:32.839 wanted to ask Jason, what was your favorite UFO story of the week last 52 00:04:32.879 --> 00:04:39.560 week? My favorite UFO story last week was about a football field sized UFO. 53 00:04:39.800 --> 00:04:43.680 No, I'm kidding. Okay, a good story, but a lot 54 00:04:43.680 --> 00:04:46.959 of people were you know, it's easy to get frustrated with stories like that. 55 00:04:47.600 --> 00:04:50.680 Let's go off on the tangent here for a little bit, because you 56 00:04:50.720 --> 00:04:54.319 know, I agree with people. You know, we read stories like that. 57 00:04:54.319 --> 00:04:57.680 We're all, that sounds incredible, but why is there any photo or 58 00:04:57.800 --> 00:05:00.519 video? I want to see this thing. We know that it's not not 59 00:05:00.680 --> 00:05:04.560 always possible for these witnesses to get photos and or video, but when you 60 00:05:04.600 --> 00:05:10.079 have something incredible like that, reading it, I agree with everybody who is 61 00:05:10.120 --> 00:05:13.600 frustrated saying I want to see the video meet you. But that is a 62 00:05:13.639 --> 00:05:15.680 really good point to bring up, because I think people are used to our 63 00:05:15.759 --> 00:05:20.079 site that we usually don't cover a story unless there's a picture or a video, 64 00:05:20.199 --> 00:05:23.360 right, And of course, a lot of the times the video is 65 00:05:23.399 --> 00:05:28.519 to turn out to be something mundane or something we can figure out, or 66 00:05:28.759 --> 00:05:32.040 at least often you and I feel that it is something that is mundane or 67 00:05:32.079 --> 00:05:39.519 for a reasonable explanation, right, right, So these often, in fact, 68 00:05:39.600 --> 00:05:43.399 I think maybe there's been only one or two times prior that we've posted 69 00:05:43.560 --> 00:05:46.160 a story without a picture or a video, because we try to make sure 70 00:05:46.199 --> 00:05:53.279 there's some visual component. However, these stories, yeah, often come without 71 00:05:53.439 --> 00:05:59.959 pictures or video, but they're still interesting because there's sometimes multiple witnesses and certainly, 72 00:06:00.879 --> 00:06:03.480 you know, seeing from the popularity of the stories, that people still 73 00:06:03.519 --> 00:06:08.439 like to hear what other people are seeing. But you've got to remember one 74 00:06:08.800 --> 00:06:13.279 that not everybody has the presence of mind to grab their camera. And really, 75 00:06:13.319 --> 00:06:17.759 if you're seeing lights in the night sky, that's nearly impossible. In 76 00:06:17.759 --> 00:06:24.000 fact, that would challenge anyone to take your phone outside at night and try 77 00:06:24.040 --> 00:06:28.920 to film a satellite, or try to film even a plane at a high 78 00:06:29.000 --> 00:06:32.120 altitude flying around really difficult to do. Yeah, plane, bright stars, 79 00:06:32.199 --> 00:06:35.120 planets, even the moon. You know, take a picture or video of 80 00:06:35.120 --> 00:06:41.279 the moon at night with your with your cell phone and photos aren't that great 81 00:06:41.399 --> 00:06:44.800 enough. And even if you get something, it's hard to discern what the 82 00:06:44.800 --> 00:06:48.000 heck it is that's right, So no real usable details from those photos. 83 00:06:48.079 --> 00:06:51.399 Yeah, so it's really hard to do that sort of thing. So I 84 00:06:51.439 --> 00:06:56.000 can under understand why some people wouldn't have pictures and videos. But it's just 85 00:06:56.319 --> 00:06:59.519 and it is funny because you know, you're damned if you do damned if 86 00:06:59.560 --> 00:07:03.439 you don't photos. That's a good point exactly, because even if you get 87 00:07:03.439 --> 00:07:06.560 a photo, everybody's like, no, that's plain, let's Chinese lantern or 88 00:07:06.600 --> 00:07:10.560 something, because you can't tell what it is anyway. But being visual creatures, 89 00:07:10.600 --> 00:07:12.399 yeah, we want to see the video. We want to see the 90 00:07:12.399 --> 00:07:16.199 photo. It helps put that image to the details in the in the reports. 91 00:07:16.279 --> 00:07:20.160 But with that said, I think these reports are important. There are 92 00:07:20.240 --> 00:07:25.079 good details that come out in these citing reports, even though they don't have 93 00:07:25.279 --> 00:07:28.199 the visuals to go along with it. You're right, and we are visual 94 00:07:28.240 --> 00:07:31.560 creatures in fact that when it comes to you and I visually stunning creatures. 95 00:07:31.800 --> 00:07:38.240 Yeah, some people are luckier than others, and we are blessed. My 96 00:07:38.279 --> 00:07:44.000 friend, the aliens favored us. Yeah, yeah, there are bad All 97 00:07:44.120 --> 00:07:47.480 right, Well let's get back on track and I will now answer your question. 98 00:07:49.319 --> 00:07:53.800 I guess we have two weeks worth of stories to choose from this show. 99 00:07:53.839 --> 00:07:55.839 Oh, that's right. Because of the holiday, we didn't have a 100 00:07:55.839 --> 00:08:00.360 shot. I want to talk about a story that we've talked about several times, 101 00:08:00.399 --> 00:08:03.480 has been sort of an ongoing story for the past couple of years, 102 00:08:03.040 --> 00:08:07.279 and many of you probably remember this. It was great video that came out 103 00:08:07.279 --> 00:08:13.360 in twenty twelve from an amateur astronomer named Alan Eppling. Now, he took 104 00:08:13.439 --> 00:08:18.000 a photos and video of a weird cigar shaped UFO in Kentucky in October of 105 00:08:18.040 --> 00:08:24.560 twenty twelve. Now, this was quickly kind of dismissed by local media as 106 00:08:24.720 --> 00:08:31.519 being a toy solar balloon. And you know, many people wouldn't. They 107 00:08:31.519 --> 00:08:37.200 didn't buy that explanation because they look at available photos of solar balloons and it 108 00:08:37.519 --> 00:08:41.879 you know, solar balloons didn't look anything like this object. It was transparent 109 00:08:41.039 --> 00:08:46.559 rather than solar balloons that are usually more garbage bag like the black sort of 110 00:08:46.559 --> 00:08:50.399 plastic thingy. But you know, while that could possibly explain it, and 111 00:08:50.480 --> 00:08:54.360 Alan Eppling at the time admitted, hey, look, I'm not saying that 112 00:08:54.399 --> 00:08:58.360 this is an extraterresturial spacecraft. It could be. I have no idea what 113 00:08:58.440 --> 00:09:03.320 it is, but I'm doubted the balloon theory. I will accept a balloon 114 00:09:03.600 --> 00:09:07.399 as a possible explanation, but this thing hovered in the sky for hours, 115 00:09:07.799 --> 00:09:11.000 and balloons don't typically do that, and you know, there could be some 116 00:09:11.039 --> 00:09:16.039 technology that could do that, but it seems pretty strange. Well, about 117 00:09:16.080 --> 00:09:20.840 a year after that, Google came out Google the giant tech company, and 118 00:09:20.960 --> 00:09:26.399 claimed responsibility for this UFO, saying that that what people saw was just a 119 00:09:26.440 --> 00:09:33.720 test of Project Loon, this new project they're testing to try to bring internet 120 00:09:33.759 --> 00:09:37.440 to places where there isn't internet, so basically like these floating Wi Fi hotspots. 121 00:09:39.840 --> 00:09:43.559 So when Ellen Efling heard that, he said, you know, again, 122 00:09:43.799 --> 00:09:46.320 I entertain, I would possibly entertain the idea that what I saw was 123 00:09:46.320 --> 00:09:50.639 a balloon, But unless they figured out how to make a balloon hover in 124 00:09:50.679 --> 00:09:54.000 the sky for hours, you know, it's still pretty fishy to me. 125 00:09:54.440 --> 00:09:56.799 And I agree with him. And there were still people who didn't buy the 126 00:09:56.840 --> 00:10:03.639 story because Google came out out with this Project Loon and published videos and photos 127 00:10:05.080 --> 00:10:09.720 of testing being done with these balloons, and they didn't look anything like what 128 00:10:09.759 --> 00:10:13.440 we see in Alan Appling's photos and videos. So again that made people question 129 00:10:13.960 --> 00:10:20.879 this assertion that what people saw was Project Loon Balloons. Then almost a year 130 00:10:20.919 --> 00:10:26.000 after that, now Google just came out and said, so, yeah, 131 00:10:26.120 --> 00:10:28.679 that balloon of ours that people saw and thought it was a UFO, it 132 00:10:28.799 --> 00:10:33.519 was actually a prototype. So that's why it looked different than the other balloons 133 00:10:33.519 --> 00:10:39.320 that we've shown you. But we still don't have photos of that prototype that 134 00:10:39.399 --> 00:10:43.200 they call Falcon eleven prototype. So who don't know what that looks like. 135 00:10:43.759 --> 00:10:48.960 But I don't want to rant here too much and doubt Google, but it 136 00:10:48.399 --> 00:10:52.840 does seem fishy that, you know, they didn't make this assertion when they 137 00:10:52.840 --> 00:10:58.080 first claimed responsibility, and at that time all of these questions were there. 138 00:10:58.440 --> 00:11:01.840 People wanted, well, how can you say that when it doesn't look anything 139 00:11:01.919 --> 00:11:05.399 like that? How do you explain that? There was no explanation at that 140 00:11:05.440 --> 00:11:07.440 time. It took almost a year later for them to come forward and say, 141 00:11:07.600 --> 00:11:13.840 oh, look, here's why it was this prototype. And the more 142 00:11:13.879 --> 00:11:18.799 interesting thing from that story is that they now admit that they lost control of 143 00:11:18.799 --> 00:11:24.759 this balloon when they launched it from California, and they lost control and they 144 00:11:24.799 --> 00:11:28.039 lost the ability to track it. They had no idea where this balloon was, 145 00:11:28.720 --> 00:11:33.679 and so they say that they relied on UFO skywatchers, UFO hunters to 146 00:11:33.759 --> 00:11:39.600 track the balloon. They just watched online for people reporting UFOs. That's what 147 00:11:39.639 --> 00:11:43.559 they assert. But I don't know how they could possibly know that this was 148 00:11:43.559 --> 00:11:46.960 their balloon. And you know why, I took them a year to claim 149 00:11:46.000 --> 00:11:50.440 that. There are a lot of weird loosens and just oddities to this story. 150 00:11:50.480 --> 00:11:54.360 To me, yeah, I got personally, I got a call BS 151 00:11:54.600 --> 00:12:00.720 on Google because sure will I do? I felt all along it was probably 152 00:12:00.799 --> 00:12:05.120 some sort of weather balloon or solar balloon or something like that. Google can't 153 00:12:05.399 --> 00:12:09.759 make claim to this thing. It makes no sense. First of all, 154 00:12:09.039 --> 00:12:15.000 they say they lost control of this thing. It was then seen in Kansas, 155 00:12:15.240 --> 00:12:18.679 and then later in Canada. Yeah, California, then over through the 156 00:12:18.759 --> 00:12:24.799 South Kentucky and some other stays and then yeah, yeah I think up into 157 00:12:24.879 --> 00:12:28.840 Canada. Yeah, which is kind of crazy. And if they lost control, 158 00:12:30.320 --> 00:12:33.679 how can they claim that this is theirs? They don't know for sure? 159 00:12:33.799 --> 00:12:37.840 How could you? How is it possible whatsoever to know for sure it's 160 00:12:37.879 --> 00:12:41.480 yours unless you had some sort of tracking device on the thing. But if 161 00:12:41.480 --> 00:12:45.039 that was the case, they wouldn't have lost it, So they had no 162 00:12:45.159 --> 00:12:48.080 idea where their balloon is they don't. I mean, the best they could 163 00:12:48.120 --> 00:12:52.639 say is that is probably our balloon, just because they recovered something in Canada 164 00:12:52.759 --> 00:12:58.919 later and they know that that's what Alan Efflin saw and the UFO tracking ideas. 165 00:12:58.039 --> 00:13:03.879 Absolutely, it really is absurd. And then this is what you know, 166 00:13:03.960 --> 00:13:05.240 you suggested to me, and I agree with you. I mean, 167 00:13:05.279 --> 00:13:09.960 it seems more like a publicity stunt on their part to bring up the whole 168 00:13:09.039 --> 00:13:13.080 UFO angle and latch onto that story because that was a big story. It 169 00:13:13.159 --> 00:13:18.000 was making international headlines and it did for you know, that year, and 170 00:13:18.399 --> 00:13:24.320 then they reignited it by claiming responsibility in twenty thirteen and then now bringing it 171 00:13:24.399 --> 00:13:28.440 up again and bringing the UFO angle into it again by saying, oh, 172 00:13:28.519 --> 00:13:31.080 and we relied on UFO trackers to find it. Yeah, there are over 173 00:13:31.639 --> 00:13:37.240 something like, on a monthly basis, five hundred UFO sidings throughout the United 174 00:13:37.399 --> 00:13:41.080 States. Yeah, and they were able to somehow go through the database and 175 00:13:41.120 --> 00:13:46.480 determine which one was their balloon and which wasn't. That really doesn't make any 176 00:13:46.480 --> 00:13:50.480 sense to me, especially, I mean, they would have had to have 177 00:13:50.519 --> 00:13:52.559 gone to move on if they could have said, if they would have said 178 00:13:52.559 --> 00:13:56.120 well, you know, we think this sighting was our balloont this sighting was 179 00:13:56.120 --> 00:14:00.240 our balloon, but they haven't shown any It's a complete lack of information and 180 00:14:00.320 --> 00:14:03.720 what they've said so far doesn't really fit or hold true. It seems like, 181 00:14:03.799 --> 00:14:07.679 yeah, they're latching onto this UFO thing for publicity. Yeah, I 182 00:14:07.679 --> 00:14:13.200 think that's the most likely explanation. Just so many things with the story sound 183 00:14:13.279 --> 00:14:16.639 like thes to me. I agree with you. Yeah, really bizarre. 184 00:14:16.320 --> 00:14:20.919 I mean a total lack of information and it just doesn't fit. And I 185 00:14:20.960 --> 00:14:26.440 mean, I don't know if they haven't addressed the fact that he saw this 186 00:14:26.519 --> 00:14:30.360 thing stationary in the sky. Balloons are stationary, I mean they can appear 187 00:14:30.360 --> 00:14:33.480 to be that way for a while. They can sort of drift and change 188 00:14:33.519 --> 00:14:39.840 elevation and catch another air current and travel back the other direction. So it 189 00:14:39.879 --> 00:14:43.360 seems like it's kind of staying in the same place, but not for hours. 190 00:14:43.399 --> 00:14:46.720 I guess. It kind of gets under my skin a little bit too, 191 00:14:48.200 --> 00:14:50.399 is they're kind of making fun of UFO observers. I mean it's kind 192 00:14:50.399 --> 00:14:54.399 of like, oh, look at these silly people, so see balloons, 193 00:14:54.399 --> 00:14:58.279 and we knew these silly people would think that they were UFOs, so we 194 00:14:58.960 --> 00:15:01.399 decided to let them track it that way. I mean, it's it's condescending 195 00:15:03.519 --> 00:15:07.559 and I don't like it. I don't like it either. We should be 196 00:15:07.600 --> 00:15:11.120 making fun of these people, these technology giants. They lose control of their 197 00:15:11.159 --> 00:15:16.080 balloon and can even track it, says Google, They track everything. Yeah, 198 00:15:16.240 --> 00:15:20.240 and I do like Google. I love Google. So they love Google, 199 00:15:20.279 --> 00:15:24.159 but Google Google X. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. 200 00:15:24.399 --> 00:15:28.039 They X. I don't know. They're not holding upholding to the gold 201 00:15:28.240 --> 00:15:33.080 standard of Google. That's right. So I don't know Google x X, 202 00:15:33.120 --> 00:15:39.200 Google x x Google x. That's right. Ex Google x ex Google x 203 00:15:39.240 --> 00:15:41.440 ex Google x. Yeah. All right, Well what is your story, 204 00:15:41.440 --> 00:15:45.159 Elejandro. That's a tough one because we had a couple of good stories, 205 00:15:45.200 --> 00:15:48.039 and I should mention some of our really cool stories have been coming from submissions 206 00:15:48.559 --> 00:15:52.399 because now that we don't do the print magazine, some of those people such 207 00:15:52.440 --> 00:15:58.120 as Umberto Visiano are Italian friend, and then Paul stone Hill, who covers 208 00:15:58.200 --> 00:16:03.919 Russian UFO stories, have been writing some stories to post on the website. 209 00:16:04.039 --> 00:16:08.200 So that's really cool. They have some really cool stuff, like UFOs over 210 00:16:08.240 --> 00:16:11.440 the Kingdom of Georgia. It's a really historical piece too, because you get 211 00:16:11.440 --> 00:16:18.879 to learn the history of Georgia and not the state the country. But the 212 00:16:18.960 --> 00:16:23.600 other hard thing is we've got otherwise some really cool stories too, in that 213 00:16:25.080 --> 00:16:32.440 we have this air safety board in Australia's story with the UFO nearly colliding with 214 00:16:32.519 --> 00:16:37.240 an airplane. However, some kind of cheating and plugging some of the stories. 215 00:16:37.279 --> 00:16:42.559 But I want to go with the EPA report on mysterious cattle deaths at 216 00:16:42.639 --> 00:16:49.240 Area fifty one. One of my favorite researchers and cool dudes, Shepherd Johnson, 217 00:16:49.480 --> 00:16:53.639 is actually the guy who sent me this document that he found. He's 218 00:16:53.679 --> 00:17:00.039 always calming databases for cool files on UFOs. He's the one who showed me, 219 00:17:00.159 --> 00:17:03.559 you know, at least one Air Force file in blue Book that had 220 00:17:03.599 --> 00:17:07.440 mentioned Area fifty one, which is really cool because I didn't realize. I 221 00:17:07.480 --> 00:17:12.759 don't think anybody realized that blue Book had mentioned the term Area fifty one before 222 00:17:12.799 --> 00:17:17.559 it was supposed to be out there. It was supposed to be secret at 223 00:17:17.559 --> 00:17:19.880 that time. But this is really neat. This is from June of nineteen 224 00:17:21.000 --> 00:17:27.000 seventy seven, and it's a report from the EPA on Mysterious cattle Deaths at 225 00:17:27.079 --> 00:17:33.039 Area fifty one. So these EPA investigators decided to go check it out. 226 00:17:33.319 --> 00:17:38.039 They go talk to security at the base. They give them a map of 227 00:17:38.480 --> 00:17:42.839 the Groom Lake where which is, you know, essentially where the airstrips are 228 00:17:42.960 --> 00:17:48.880 at area fifty one, and the map is marked with the mysterious cattle deaths 229 00:17:48.920 --> 00:17:52.960 and these guys go investigate them. At first, you're thinking, you know, 230 00:17:52.039 --> 00:17:57.000 oh, cattle mutilation. However, it seems like these animals died mysteriously. 231 00:17:57.079 --> 00:18:03.039 They couldn't determine it during the investment mitigation, they couldn't figure out how 232 00:18:03.079 --> 00:18:07.920 these things died. But they didn't say they were mutilated, but they couldn't 233 00:18:07.920 --> 00:18:10.920 figure out how they died. And really, when you read this report, 234 00:18:11.279 --> 00:18:14.759 you can see that they're really baffled, and they ruled out all of the 235 00:18:14.880 --> 00:18:19.640 possible ways these could have died in a normal manner. So it was a 236 00:18:19.640 --> 00:18:23.200 mystery that was never solved. But really neat that you had this kind of 237 00:18:23.480 --> 00:18:29.599 cattle mutilation or cattle death mystery going on that no one knew about nineteen seventy 238 00:18:29.640 --> 00:18:33.759 seven at Area fifty one. That is now released to the public. And 239 00:18:34.599 --> 00:18:40.839 I guess one of the things that's curious too, is whether this document has 240 00:18:40.880 --> 00:18:42.720 been out there, you know, if it was just bound, or if 241 00:18:42.720 --> 00:18:48.200 this is yet another document that should have redacted the name Area fifty one but 242 00:18:48.279 --> 00:18:52.480 didn't and has been out there for some time. So it's kind of funny. 243 00:18:52.759 --> 00:18:56.480 It's also interesting, I think, and I'd love to hear your thoughts 244 00:18:56.599 --> 00:19:00.680 on this, that even though Area fifty one is a secret base, its 245 00:19:00.720 --> 00:19:07.440 existence is denied and the CIA's documents and many others, most others crossed out 246 00:19:07.440 --> 00:19:11.680 the name or blacked out any reference to Area fifty one or Groom Lake, 247 00:19:11.839 --> 00:19:17.279 and you know, whole sections of documents blacked out to keep Area fifty one 248 00:19:17.319 --> 00:19:22.480 secret. However, there are a handful of documents out there where this wasn't 249 00:19:22.519 --> 00:19:26.640 done. Either there's agencies who weren't where they were supposed to do that, 250 00:19:26.440 --> 00:19:33.079 or agencies who maybe aren't as careful about redacting information, but that the name 251 00:19:33.160 --> 00:19:36.559 was out there. You know. I think I thought about this, and 252 00:19:36.599 --> 00:19:42.559 I think it's highly likely that several of these instances where you do see Area 253 00:19:42.559 --> 00:19:47.880 fifty one in documents is just human error. Yeah, I think you're right, 254 00:19:47.920 --> 00:19:52.799 And there are so many organizations, it's not like all information go through 255 00:19:52.000 --> 00:19:56.839 one single like Final Source. You know, these are individual, independent organizations 256 00:19:57.359 --> 00:20:03.480 and they have people responsible for releasing documents or whatever. Humans are fallible, 257 00:20:03.559 --> 00:20:04.920 I mean, stuff is going to get through. Yeah, and I'm sure 258 00:20:04.960 --> 00:20:07.079 there's going to be a lot of people that disagree with me on this. 259 00:20:07.519 --> 00:20:12.519 And it's just a thought because it makes me think if there is our aliens 260 00:20:12.920 --> 00:20:21.000 or extraterrestrial craft there, it's kind of sloppy that the name would be getting 261 00:20:21.000 --> 00:20:25.160 out there and human error, you know, would cause these errors where the 262 00:20:25.240 --> 00:20:30.000 name is out there if it was you know, extremely extremely top secret. 263 00:20:30.079 --> 00:20:33.599 And it also makes me think of other secret projects. Why haven't we seen 264 00:20:33.640 --> 00:20:37.920 the name slip here and there on those too? So yeah, well, 265 00:20:37.960 --> 00:20:41.319 I mean, yeah, I know a lot of people disagree with me, 266 00:20:41.359 --> 00:20:48.160 and I've said this before, but because humans are fallible and secrets, you 267 00:20:48.200 --> 00:20:52.400 know, always find a way of getting out. I find it personally, 268 00:20:52.440 --> 00:20:59.599 I find it difficult to believe that some of these claims of humongous secrets being 269 00:20:59.640 --> 00:21:03.039 kept by the government and have been for many, many many years and they 270 00:21:03.079 --> 00:21:07.720 haven't come out. I find that suspect because again, I mean a lot 271 00:21:07.759 --> 00:21:12.000 of government employees are people. I know a lot of government employees personally, 272 00:21:12.839 --> 00:21:18.839 I may or may not be an employment of the government myself. So you 273 00:21:18.880 --> 00:21:22.960 know, these people that I know, and we all know government employees, 274 00:21:22.000 --> 00:21:26.720 they're they're people. They're normal people. And people talk, you know, 275 00:21:26.799 --> 00:21:30.880 whether you get them drunk in a bar, or they tell something to their 276 00:21:30.920 --> 00:21:36.599 spouse at night, or your favorite method is seduction. Seduction. Seduction is 277 00:21:36.599 --> 00:21:42.200 a great way to pull information, but information does get spread if and people 278 00:21:42.240 --> 00:21:45.440 have big mouths, certain people some people are great at keeping secrets, but 279 00:21:45.559 --> 00:21:51.720 people could talk, and people do slip up in blocking guide information and documents. 280 00:21:52.039 --> 00:21:56.440 Yeah, it's really interesting, but I think either way, it's another 281 00:21:56.519 --> 00:22:02.039 mysterious it's mysterious phenomenon documented by the EPA where they never figure out what happened. 282 00:22:02.519 --> 00:22:07.119 They even did some tests for poison in the drinking water, it wasn't 283 00:22:07.119 --> 00:22:11.160 that they did a really thorough investigation, you can see, and they were 284 00:22:11.240 --> 00:22:17.000 left baffled. So I think it's a really cool story. And I was 285 00:22:17.160 --> 00:22:22.640 really excited when Shepard had shown me this document and happy that he let me 286 00:22:22.680 --> 00:22:27.799 post this. And I'll mention, I guess because we haven't talked since he's 287 00:22:29.359 --> 00:22:30.759 or maybe we did mention this last time on the show. But he wrote 288 00:22:30.799 --> 00:22:37.039 an article for us also because he was at the congressional hearing with the Search 289 00:22:37.039 --> 00:22:41.720 for Extraterrestrial Intelligence SETI, and he interviewed Sess Shastak, right, and that 290 00:22:41.839 --> 00:22:45.200 was a really cool story we have on the website also, Yeah, exclusive 291 00:22:45.200 --> 00:22:48.240 interview with Seth their post hearing. So yeah, Shepherd's doing great stuff. 292 00:22:48.519 --> 00:22:52.839 And now it's time for our Spacing Out plug So of course a lot of 293 00:22:52.839 --> 00:22:56.400 these stories. There's a lot of other really cool stories too, like this 294 00:22:57.160 --> 00:23:03.079 UFO type thing scene over here, uh An Iceberg, some other cool stuff, 295 00:23:03.279 --> 00:23:08.960 and of course Maureen and Jason cover the UFO news of the week on 296 00:23:10.160 --> 00:23:14.039 Spacing Out, which is posted every Friday. Yeah, youtobe you'd like to 297 00:23:14.039 --> 00:23:19.799 hear more news and also see our physically superior selves, you can watch us 298 00:23:19.839 --> 00:23:23.680 every Friday on our YouTube channel or just open Minds dot tv. Just be 299 00:23:23.799 --> 00:23:30.359 careful of letting Jason seduce you, because he's just trying to get information out 300 00:23:30.359 --> 00:23:33.640 of you. That's right. I'm warning people right now. But if you'd 301 00:23:33.680 --> 00:23:34.960 like to share information and be seduced, I can help you with that. 302 00:23:36.359 --> 00:23:40.640 Yeah, there you go, voluntary. Yeah, and you're probably going to 303 00:23:40.680 --> 00:23:41.559 be some people that are going to try and take you up on that. 304 00:23:41.680 --> 00:23:45.599 So I think so, and I'll talk like this, yeah, hello, 305 00:23:47.160 --> 00:23:51.920 Hello, we'll about UFOs. Yeah, yeah, hey, I got some 306 00:23:52.160 --> 00:23:56.160 Why don't you share some of that information on UFOOS baby, that's right. 307 00:23:56.759 --> 00:23:59.599 Oh, I'm gonna try that. That's right. Let's go to area fifty 308 00:23:59.599 --> 00:24:03.400 one and try Hey. Oh I could try that. I haven't tried that. 309 00:24:03.519 --> 00:24:07.279 Good. Yeah, I'll try that. Okay. So that's what we'll 310 00:24:07.319 --> 00:24:10.119 be doing next weekend. All right, And if any of you want to 311 00:24:10.119 --> 00:24:17.160 be seduced and or have information UFOL information pulled from you involuntarily, my email 312 00:24:17.200 --> 00:24:19.359 address is Jason openminds dot TV. Hit me up. Oh my gosh, 313 00:24:19.400 --> 00:24:23.480 you're desperate for you're a married man. You should cut this out. You're 314 00:24:23.519 --> 00:24:27.079 taking it too far. Look, you can't announce that now. Nobody's gonna 315 00:24:27.119 --> 00:24:30.079 give me their information. You're blowing my cover here. Yeah, when I'm 316 00:24:30.119 --> 00:24:36.640 saving your your marriage. Well, she understands that I've got a job to 317 00:24:36.720 --> 00:24:41.119 do. Oh okay, good, like any secret government agent. Actually, 318 00:24:41.599 --> 00:24:45.880 that will just bring you more people, probably because you know the mystery of 319 00:24:47.480 --> 00:24:52.759 being involved with a lurid affair that's an old wives tale. Well, we'll 320 00:24:52.799 --> 00:24:56.680 find out. We'll find out, all right, Thank you, Jason, 321 00:24:57.319 --> 00:25:02.759 it's my pleasure. We we'll talk to you next week. However, without 322 00:25:02.799 --> 00:25:06.759 further ado, let's go ahead and talk to Linda Zimmerman. I am very 323 00:25:06.759 --> 00:25:11.039 excited to have Linda Zimmerman with me, as she wrote the book in the 324 00:25:11.119 --> 00:25:18.400 Night Sky Hudson Valley UFO sidings one of the UFO hotspots. Welcome, Linda, 325 00:25:18.119 --> 00:25:21.920 Well, thank you very much for having me. Yeah, I'm really 326 00:25:21.920 --> 00:25:26.720 excited to talk to you. It looks like you've done a lot of paranormal 327 00:25:26.799 --> 00:25:32.359 investigation over the years. Yes, for I guess over fifteen years now, 328 00:25:32.400 --> 00:25:37.000 I've been doing paranormal investigations in the Hudson Valley and combining it with my love 329 00:25:37.000 --> 00:25:45.720 of history, getting the whole interesting picture of this area that is so rich 330 00:25:45.039 --> 00:25:51.559 with history for hundreds of years. And what got you into the paranormal It 331 00:25:51.559 --> 00:25:56.880 looks like you were kind of into ghost hutting before UFOs. Really. Well, 332 00:25:56.960 --> 00:26:00.880 I was actually a research chemist with a great interest in history. So 333 00:26:02.079 --> 00:26:07.680 I was talking about history of my county, Rockland County, which was having 334 00:26:07.720 --> 00:26:12.559 its bicentennial, and I was telling some of the old Indian legends and some 335 00:26:12.640 --> 00:26:18.519 of the Dutch and English folks stories and people just started asking about ghost stories. 336 00:26:18.759 --> 00:26:22.720 And to be honest, I was a little indignant at first, you 337 00:26:22.759 --> 00:26:29.079 know, I'm giving a history lecture, but so many people asked and I 338 00:26:29.200 --> 00:26:32.640 loved ghost stories. I loved Hans Holzer when I was a kid. So 339 00:26:33.640 --> 00:26:40.359 I just started collecting stories and people started asking me to their homes and businesses 340 00:26:40.400 --> 00:26:45.400 to investigate, and it really just took off, you know, a couple 341 00:26:45.400 --> 00:26:48.759 of years in I was like, what just happened? Suddenly I'm a ghost 342 00:26:48.799 --> 00:26:57.039 investigator. But it was fascinating, and it actually led to the UFO investigations 343 00:26:57.119 --> 00:27:00.720 because after a lecture, people would come up and start telling me their UFO 344 00:27:00.960 --> 00:27:06.519 stories. And I was a little a little puzzled at first, you know, 345 00:27:06.960 --> 00:27:10.440 I'm talking about ghosts. Why are you talking about UFOs? And they'd 346 00:27:10.440 --> 00:27:14.480 say, well, it's all connected, isn't it? And uh I didn't 347 00:27:14.480 --> 00:27:19.519 see any connection. But their stories were so fascinating. I said, Okay, 348 00:27:19.599 --> 00:27:25.079 some something big is going on here and the story needs to be told. 349 00:27:25.640 --> 00:27:30.279 H So when you began doing this, this, these ghost investigations, 350 00:27:30.720 --> 00:27:37.920 were you skeptical at first? I was definitely skeptical. Uh, it's as 351 00:27:37.960 --> 00:27:41.640 you know, it's one thing to listen to somebody's story. It's another to 352 00:27:41.640 --> 00:27:47.160 to prove, you know, the validity of what they're saying. But uh, 353 00:27:48.000 --> 00:27:52.200 I can. I can honestly say after a after a couple of hundred 354 00:27:52.240 --> 00:28:00.960 investigations, I'm fairly well convinced that something paranormal is definitely going on. And 355 00:28:00.119 --> 00:28:04.480 what convinced you? When was the moment that if there was a moment, 356 00:28:04.599 --> 00:28:07.920 or maybe it was over a period of time where you went from skeptic to 357 00:28:08.039 --> 00:28:15.920 wow, there's something really here. Actually I was in Gettysburg and I was 358 00:28:15.000 --> 00:28:22.240 writing about Civil War reenactors, you know, nothing paranormal, and my husband 359 00:28:22.279 --> 00:28:26.240 and I were at the wheat field it was actually the anniversary of the battle, 360 00:28:26.599 --> 00:28:30.920 and we saw this Confederate soldier walking across the field who we assumed was 361 00:28:30.960 --> 00:28:36.480 a reenactor. And actually I said, well, this guy's the worst Confederate 362 00:28:36.519 --> 00:28:41.799 reenactor. He's too bright and shiny. He should be dirty and grungy. 363 00:28:41.559 --> 00:28:47.400 And my husband so we'll just interview him anyway. So I reached down to 364 00:28:47.400 --> 00:28:52.480 get my pen and pen and when I sat up, he was gone. 365 00:28:52.519 --> 00:28:55.000 And we're looking and I said, oh, no, he must have fallen 366 00:28:55.079 --> 00:29:00.720 down yeah, about one hundred and fifty years ago. So we went running 367 00:29:00.720 --> 00:29:06.519 out into the field we just couldn't find he had just disappeared. Wow. 368 00:29:07.279 --> 00:29:11.000 My husband and I both saw the same thing and was like, okay, 369 00:29:11.079 --> 00:29:18.359 this is this is something we absolutely can't deny. So you know that sticks 370 00:29:18.400 --> 00:29:25.599 with you and to me, seeing is believing. How interesting? Yeah, 371 00:29:25.759 --> 00:29:29.240 of course this is an interview about UFOs, but I find this stuff so 372 00:29:29.279 --> 00:29:34.880 interesting I want to ask a couple more questions. What then, I mean, 373 00:29:34.960 --> 00:29:41.160 the the movies portray the ghost phenomena is pretty scary, you know, 374 00:29:41.240 --> 00:29:45.200 it's all horror type of stuff. And these children that looked mangled, kind 375 00:29:45.240 --> 00:29:48.599 of popping out of the mirror and stuff like that. I mean, that 376 00:29:48.640 --> 00:29:53.079 doesn't seem to be what ghost centers find for the most part with this phenomena. 377 00:29:53.799 --> 00:29:59.960 No, that would make our job so much easier. That dramatic. 378 00:30:00.240 --> 00:30:07.759 But it's usually something no more than a whisper or a footstep or a feeling. 379 00:30:10.119 --> 00:30:14.720 And as an investigator you try to research the history of the location, 380 00:30:15.519 --> 00:30:19.759 combine it with the eye witness reports, and then whatever evidence you might find. 381 00:30:21.319 --> 00:30:26.759 And really these are all the same disciplines you use for UFO investigations as 382 00:30:26.799 --> 00:30:32.680 well, so it was it was good training. So when you do with 383 00:30:32.759 --> 00:30:37.200 ghost investigation, and I think here's where there is also some more crossover. 384 00:30:37.920 --> 00:30:42.720 What sort of measurement do you use? Do you take some equipment and measure 385 00:30:44.119 --> 00:30:51.759 different types of things? Sure, we use EMF meters, electromagnetic field meters, 386 00:30:52.920 --> 00:30:59.359 take the temperature, we use night vision, Geiger counters, anything we 387 00:30:59.480 --> 00:31:07.119 can pop possibly used to get some objective scientific measurements at a location, and 388 00:31:07.160 --> 00:31:11.319 you don't always get them, but sometimes you know, you'll hit a cold 389 00:31:11.359 --> 00:31:15.680 spot and suddenly your EMF meter is spiking and you say, okay, it's 390 00:31:15.720 --> 00:31:22.319 not my imagination. So just as do you look for photographic evidence or EMF 391 00:31:22.400 --> 00:31:27.440 readings, you know in a in a UFO sighting case, we do the 392 00:31:27.519 --> 00:31:34.599 same thing in ghost investigations. When it comes to that, before we get 393 00:31:34.599 --> 00:31:38.079 in kind of more of the details of the sightings, do you think then 394 00:31:38.160 --> 00:31:47.359 there are that there's a tie in with the the MF for example, Are 395 00:31:47.400 --> 00:31:52.640 there similar sort of phenomena happening you think? I think probably even more so 396 00:31:53.160 --> 00:32:01.039 with with UFO sightings with EMF readings, because they are using some sort of 397 00:32:01.160 --> 00:32:10.039 propulsions. So I'm sure there's some sort of electricity ems waves being generated with 398 00:32:10.119 --> 00:32:15.240 their vehicles or whatever their equipment is. So if you're at the site of 399 00:32:15.279 --> 00:32:22.319 a of a recent encounter, or you're seeing something right in front of you, 400 00:32:22.400 --> 00:32:29.319 if you have a meter that's suddenly showing you know, high magnetism or 401 00:32:29.400 --> 00:32:37.839 high electricity, it's a valuable tool. So any any scientific equipment that can 402 00:32:37.960 --> 00:32:46.240 validate what you're seeing or feeling is very valuable. So you're doing these tacts 403 00:32:46.279 --> 00:32:51.240 and people start to come up to you and tell you that your UFOs their 404 00:32:51.359 --> 00:32:54.759 UFO storage where you're kind of like, okay, I gave this ghost thing 405 00:32:55.079 --> 00:33:00.319 a go, but UFOs as a little too much for me. It was 406 00:33:00.559 --> 00:33:04.480 nothing I ever thought I would pursue. But then, you know, I 407 00:33:04.559 --> 00:33:07.880 used to be a research chemist. I never thought I'd be doing ghost hunting 408 00:33:07.000 --> 00:33:14.799 either, but I so many credible people came up to me over the span 409 00:33:14.880 --> 00:33:21.559 of so many years. It was it was just something I couldn't ignore, 410 00:33:22.279 --> 00:33:24.640 and I thought, well, you know, what kind of credibility do I 411 00:33:24.720 --> 00:33:29.319 have anyway with my ghost hunting, I might as well, you know, 412 00:33:29.359 --> 00:33:32.839 I might as well get into UFOs as well. But it's funny in the 413 00:33:32.920 --> 00:33:39.319 Hudson Valley area of New York. Here's it's much more accepted, I think 414 00:33:39.559 --> 00:33:45.720 than perhaps in other parts of the country because if you grew up here, 415 00:33:45.160 --> 00:33:50.880 especially if you were around here in the nineteen eighties, you if you didn't 416 00:33:50.920 --> 00:33:55.640 see something, your family member, your friend, somebody you know, did 417 00:33:57.279 --> 00:34:04.240 it was it was that prevalent. So I have found it to be far 418 00:34:04.319 --> 00:34:12.679 more accepting of the UFO phenomenon in this area. That's really interesting because there 419 00:34:12.719 --> 00:34:16.519 aren't many places like that, and I've heard that before, and I guess 420 00:34:16.559 --> 00:34:23.559 this is another tie in with the ghost phenomenon in that there are hot spots, 421 00:34:24.079 --> 00:34:29.400 it seems when it comes to ghost activity. And you can correct me 422 00:34:29.719 --> 00:34:36.119 or but it's also certainly true UFO sightings. It seems to be, and 423 00:34:36.320 --> 00:34:43.840 I don't have an explanation for that, but they're in spots of high strangeness 424 00:34:43.880 --> 00:34:47.320 as they call it. It can be strangeness of all kinds, and we 425 00:34:47.480 --> 00:34:52.639 certainly have it in abundance here. So at one point, I mean, 426 00:34:52.719 --> 00:35:00.159 when people first started coming to you with these UFO stories. In UFO research, 427 00:35:00.199 --> 00:35:02.880 we do know of Hudson Valley being a hot spot, but were you 428 00:35:04.079 --> 00:35:10.320 aware of that at yes, I grew up in this area, and I 429 00:35:10.440 --> 00:35:14.960 actually had a sighting of my own when I was in college. Wow, 430 00:35:15.519 --> 00:35:22.880 which was very dramatic, these three separate lights which came together in this brilliant 431 00:35:22.920 --> 00:35:28.079 blue flash and then lowered down onto the top of a mountain and pulsated. 432 00:35:28.719 --> 00:35:32.079 And you know, I was in college at the time, getting my science 433 00:35:32.159 --> 00:35:37.840 degree, and it's like, okay, how do we explain this scientifically? 434 00:35:37.519 --> 00:35:44.719 We don't. So I was very much aware of it. And again, 435 00:35:44.760 --> 00:35:50.840 if you lived here in the nineteen eighties during that incredible flap, it was 436 00:35:51.159 --> 00:35:54.880 it was a part of every day. I mean I interviewed people who who 437 00:35:54.960 --> 00:36:00.360 said, well, yeah, you know, I saw the giant triangle around 438 00:36:00.400 --> 00:36:02.360 the third or fourth time. I just you know, said, okay, 439 00:36:02.400 --> 00:36:08.639 there it is again, you know, which is is just remarkable. Some 440 00:36:08.679 --> 00:36:15.079 people are fortunate to see something for five or ten seconds, and here were 441 00:36:15.079 --> 00:36:23.000 people having ten to twenty minute sightings several times in a month. And to 442 00:36:23.119 --> 00:36:29.199 get to the point of this blase attitude, yeah, there's UFOs. What 443 00:36:29.239 --> 00:36:31.440 are we going to do about it? Is? I don't think there's too 444 00:36:31.440 --> 00:36:37.800 many parts of the country where where that's too prevalent. Right, So this 445 00:36:37.920 --> 00:36:43.920 flap in the eighties. How did that? When did it begin? And 446 00:36:44.039 --> 00:36:52.280 how? It began in December of nineteen eighty two, and it really really 447 00:36:52.599 --> 00:36:58.480 really picked up and had two remarkable sightings a week apart, in March of 448 00:36:58.599 --> 00:37:04.599 nineteen eighty three, Mark seventeenth and March twenty fourth. Those two nights, 449 00:37:04.719 --> 00:37:13.039 it's estimated that perhaps well over ten thousand people wow, saw these massive silent 450 00:37:13.239 --> 00:37:20.480 triangles or V shaped objects. One of the most dramatic interviews I conducted was 451 00:37:20.519 --> 00:37:25.480 with three teachers who were coming home from graduate school and all the road, 452 00:37:25.639 --> 00:37:30.559 all the cars on the highway were stopped, so they stopped and got out, 453 00:37:30.639 --> 00:37:37.239 and they said a triangle bigger than a football field was silently hovering over 454 00:37:37.320 --> 00:37:42.800 them, just at tree top level, and it was there for twenty minutes. 455 00:37:43.280 --> 00:37:47.639 Wow, I'm so jealous, you know, I would love to have 456 00:37:47.719 --> 00:37:55.360 experienced that. And the same thing happened the following week, and you can 457 00:37:55.440 --> 00:38:01.519 imagine major highways in New York suddenly stopped, but every car and truck stopped 458 00:38:01.559 --> 00:38:07.679 and people getting out and just watching these. It was. It was a 459 00:38:07.719 --> 00:38:15.960 breathtaking couple of weeks, and it continued on and off for several years. 460 00:38:15.679 --> 00:38:22.039 I've heard someone say probably one of the longest, if not the longest flap 461 00:38:22.280 --> 00:38:28.480 in UFO history in eighty three when that those events took place, did that 462 00:38:28.920 --> 00:38:34.880 also hit the media? Oh? Yes, but generally not in any positive 463 00:38:34.920 --> 00:38:39.679 supporting way. You know, a lot of you know, the old excuses 464 00:38:39.679 --> 00:38:47.960 of mass hysteria and planes flying in formation and of course the planet Venus and 465 00:38:49.360 --> 00:38:57.559 and and everything else. It It was unfortunate because it was happening so often 466 00:38:57.800 --> 00:39:04.280 with such intensity. It would have been a really good time for the government 467 00:39:04.360 --> 00:39:08.360 to, you know, to come out and admit, either we don't know 468 00:39:08.400 --> 00:39:15.039 what these are, or we know what they are, but don't be afraid 469 00:39:15.119 --> 00:39:20.719 I mean something. But they just denied and ridiculed, and you know, 470 00:39:20.840 --> 00:39:23.639 tried to put a lid on the whole thing. And why do you think 471 00:39:23.679 --> 00:39:31.360 the media does that? Well. I interviewed a reporter who worked in the 472 00:39:31.400 --> 00:39:37.760 town of Poughkeepsie, and one of these triangles came right over their newspaper office, 473 00:39:37.880 --> 00:39:43.360 and all of these reporters were on the roof watching this for many, 474 00:39:43.400 --> 00:39:47.280 many minutes. Wow, when it passed off, went off into the distance, 475 00:39:47.360 --> 00:39:53.280 they ran downstairs to file their reports and photos, and the owner came 476 00:39:53.320 --> 00:40:00.679 in with somebody in a suit and said this did not happen. Basically, 477 00:40:00.719 --> 00:40:09.400 anybody who writes a word about this is fired, and the media tried on 478 00:40:09.960 --> 00:40:15.840 many occasions. I interviewed a state trooper who tried to tell his story to 479 00:40:15.880 --> 00:40:21.800 the newspaper, and the newspaper said, there's no chance we're getting this story 480 00:40:21.920 --> 00:40:28.440 in from somebody as reliable as you. So some people did publish stories, 481 00:40:28.760 --> 00:40:36.000 but it wasn't the media attention did not live up to the level of the 482 00:40:36.079 --> 00:40:42.559 sightings. And did that journalist to kind of share his speculation and who that 483 00:40:42.599 --> 00:40:45.760 person in the suit might have been, Well, he was sure it was 484 00:40:45.920 --> 00:40:52.239 Air Force or CIA or some government. In fact, some of the reporters 485 00:40:52.320 --> 00:41:00.679 were later harassed by some sort of government officials who didn't white identify themselves, 486 00:41:01.719 --> 00:41:06.960 and he was he was furious about this, even even thirty years later. 487 00:41:07.719 --> 00:41:10.199 You know, where's freedom of the press? I mean, we saw the 488 00:41:10.199 --> 00:41:15.320 most spectacular thing we've ever seen and witnessed in our lives, and we're not 489 00:41:15.440 --> 00:41:22.000 allowed to write a word about it. You know, constitutional rights aside. 490 00:41:22.239 --> 00:41:29.440 It's it's it's crazy for a newspaper to pass up a story that would have 491 00:41:29.519 --> 00:41:36.199 been a you know, a large right right. So there was apparently extreme 492 00:41:36.320 --> 00:41:40.360 pressure being exerted on on members of the media during that time. Wow, 493 00:41:40.760 --> 00:41:44.719 when you looked into this and talked to people, did you run into more 494 00:41:44.760 --> 00:41:52.840 of that? Everywhere? Everywhere? One one woman I interviewed, her whole 495 00:41:52.880 --> 00:41:59.039 family had a dramatic sighting of this diamond shaped object, which again stopped traffic. 496 00:41:59.679 --> 00:42:04.440 She tried to report it, and you know, they just laughed at 497 00:42:04.440 --> 00:42:07.360 her and they're like, really, don't don't waste your breath. Wow, 498 00:42:07.199 --> 00:42:14.719 it's it's not going to happen. So again, there were newspaper reports and 499 00:42:14.760 --> 00:42:21.280 they usually ended with but government officials have assured us it was a formation of 500 00:42:21.800 --> 00:42:28.559 small Cessna airplanes, so they usually had to include that, you know, 501 00:42:28.639 --> 00:42:35.119 the disclaimer of the day. Wow, interesting you mentioned photos. Were there 502 00:42:35.199 --> 00:42:40.480 some photos taken in are ever printed or that you saw? The best one 503 00:42:40.559 --> 00:42:45.119 I saw was taken the night of March twenty fourth, when those three teachers 504 00:42:45.199 --> 00:42:52.280 viewed that object. It was a high school photography student who took this remarkable 505 00:42:52.360 --> 00:42:58.719 photo of a large, brilliantly lit triangle beaming a light down to the ground 506 00:42:58.920 --> 00:43:02.280 and illuminating the grind bound below it. It was published in the newspaper a 507 00:43:02.320 --> 00:43:09.039 couple of weeks later. H and I tracked this man down thirty years later 508 00:43:09.079 --> 00:43:12.800 and I said, are you the same man who took this photo? And 509 00:43:12.840 --> 00:43:15.920 he's like, wow, that's a that's a blast from the past, he 510 00:43:15.960 --> 00:43:19.960 said, But why why are you interested? You know, the police told 511 00:43:19.960 --> 00:43:23.199 me it was just a formation of planes, and I said, did you 512 00:43:23.280 --> 00:43:27.559 look at your own foot? Does that look like a formation of planes. 513 00:43:29.320 --> 00:43:36.320 So there was photographic evidence, and it just wasn't you know, it was 514 00:43:36.400 --> 00:43:39.400 dismissed as, oh, yeah, the kid took a picture of some planes, 515 00:43:39.480 --> 00:43:44.519 what's what's the big deal? And there were where where there was other 516 00:43:44.679 --> 00:43:51.719 video, other photographs, but again the same thing, Oh you're you're just 517 00:43:51.800 --> 00:43:58.559 taking picture of a flight of military jets or ultra lights or it was never 518 00:43:58.639 --> 00:44:05.360 given. None of them were ever given in credence. And what people were 519 00:44:05.400 --> 00:44:13.679 reporting were they all triangular or V shaped. During the nineteen eighties, that 520 00:44:13.840 --> 00:44:20.880 was the predominant shape that was seen. Some were circular. Some described things 521 00:44:20.920 --> 00:44:25.079 to me like a massive tinker toys or you know those erector sets see like 522 00:44:25.199 --> 00:44:31.960 girders and things. So there was a variety, but the nineteen eighties was 523 00:44:32.000 --> 00:44:38.199 the decade of the giant triangle here, and so do you get a censor 524 00:44:38.360 --> 00:44:46.360 or that Perhaps then some of those government people knew more they had to have. 525 00:44:49.119 --> 00:44:57.079 So many people told me that military helicopters took off after these objects, 526 00:44:57.519 --> 00:45:04.519 or flights of military jets. One man told me a story from going back 527 00:45:04.559 --> 00:45:09.000 to the nineteen fifties. In this area, they saw this huge cigar shaped 528 00:45:09.360 --> 00:45:15.599 craft sitting there for I don't know, ten twenty minutes, and they scrambled 529 00:45:15.639 --> 00:45:21.519 three fighter jets from the local Air Force base. And as these fighter jets 530 00:45:21.519 --> 00:45:24.360 were, I mean they were bearing down on this object. I don't know 531 00:45:24.360 --> 00:45:29.280 if they were ready to fire on it. But as they approached, this 532 00:45:29.360 --> 00:45:34.039 thing went vertical and took off in the blink of an eye, and the 533 00:45:34.119 --> 00:45:38.079 jets just went through open air. And the next day there was an article 534 00:45:38.079 --> 00:45:42.920 in the paper. Nothing to worry about. Yes, fighter jets were scrambled, 535 00:45:43.320 --> 00:45:49.000 but it was only a weather balloon, so clearly they had something on 536 00:45:49.159 --> 00:45:53.159 radar. You don't scramble three fighter jets in the nineteen fifties because of a 537 00:45:53.159 --> 00:46:00.440 weather balloon, one would hope. So in this area, at least they 538 00:46:00.480 --> 00:46:05.119 had to have known for a long time. And I interviewed a man who 539 00:46:05.400 --> 00:46:10.119 was with the Air Force and working at the radar installation at this Air Force 540 00:46:10.119 --> 00:46:15.920 Stewart Air Force Base, and he said, one night some object raced up 541 00:46:15.960 --> 00:46:22.559 the east coast at speeds we couldn't even imagine, and everybody knew it wasn't 542 00:46:22.599 --> 00:46:27.400 ours, it wasn't the Russians. And he said, everybody was just in 543 00:46:28.280 --> 00:46:31.719 such an incredible state of excitement. And he said they spoke about that for 544 00:46:31.960 --> 00:46:37.159 months. And this was a strategic Air Command facility. So when when they 545 00:46:37.199 --> 00:46:44.000 get excited about something, it's something to get excited about, right. Wow. 546 00:46:44.599 --> 00:46:47.880 So there is there an air Force base in the area Stewart? Is 547 00:46:47.920 --> 00:46:54.880 that what it is? Yes? Now it's it's not just an Air Force 548 00:46:54.960 --> 00:47:00.679 base anymore. It's also now a commercial Air Force airport, but there is 549 00:47:00.719 --> 00:47:07.559 still some military I think the Air Force reserves or they fly supplies in and 550 00:47:07.599 --> 00:47:13.079 out of there. It's not a fighter base any longer. But in the 551 00:47:13.199 --> 00:47:22.800 nineteen fifties it was one of the three centers for Project Blue Book reports. 552 00:47:23.159 --> 00:47:29.199 It was Stuart Wright Patterson and and Air Force Base. I've seen a lot 553 00:47:29.239 --> 00:47:32.559 of the documents where all you know, they gathered reports and shared them among 554 00:47:32.639 --> 00:47:39.880 those three Air Force baces, and it was one of the locations for Northeast 555 00:47:40.320 --> 00:47:45.960 Defense, so it was very prominent. In fact, I have a chapter 556 00:47:46.039 --> 00:47:52.320 in my new book, Hudson Valley UFOs just on blue book sightings made by 557 00:47:52.440 --> 00:47:58.400 Air Force personnel at that Air Force base. Oh cool, wow, neat, 558 00:47:59.119 --> 00:48:08.519 yeah, eye openers. Have you did you ever feel that perhaps some 559 00:48:08.599 --> 00:48:13.880 of these sightings or were you know, maybe top secret projects or something like 560 00:48:13.920 --> 00:48:22.199 that. I think so. I have spoken to ultra light pilots who were 561 00:48:22.280 --> 00:48:30.039 flying merrily along and had the strange cylindrical craft with stubby wings go racing by 562 00:48:30.119 --> 00:48:35.960 them, and they thought these must be UFOs. And many of these pilots 563 00:48:36.000 --> 00:48:42.159 in this area of this the Shawangunk Mountains, had seen these and it wasn't 564 00:48:42.239 --> 00:48:46.559 until the Gulf War started and we all learned about drones, you know, 565 00:48:46.760 --> 00:48:52.119 unmanned aerial aircraft, that they realized that's what they had been seeing. So 566 00:48:52.400 --> 00:49:00.119 somebody in the Hudson Valley was testing drones decades ago and certainly not letting the 567 00:49:00.159 --> 00:49:07.960 citizens know about it. So I'm sure other types of aircraft have been and 568 00:49:07.000 --> 00:49:13.960 probably still are being tested in this area. So and you think that might 569 00:49:14.000 --> 00:49:20.960 account for some of these signings. I think it probably has to. But 570 00:49:21.199 --> 00:49:24.000 you know, when you get something the size of a football field silently hovering 571 00:49:24.039 --> 00:49:30.679 over you for twenty minutes, you know that I think is beyond our capability, 572 00:49:30.760 --> 00:49:37.360 or certainly was at that point, but certainly drones could have. You 573 00:49:37.400 --> 00:49:39.800 know, we did have a military air force base here, we have West 574 00:49:39.800 --> 00:49:46.079 Point, There's a lot of air force. There's a lot of commercial airports 575 00:49:46.199 --> 00:49:58.679 in the area, so misidentified conventional aircraft and possibly military unconventional aircraft could account 576 00:49:58.800 --> 00:50:06.480 for a good portion. But I actually found newspaper accounts going back to nineteen 577 00:50:06.519 --> 00:50:12.199 oh nine, Wow in this area, talking about these mysterious airships that hover 578 00:50:12.400 --> 00:50:20.039 at night and take off at great speeds. We absolutely did not have anything 579 00:50:20.239 --> 00:50:24.559 capable of doing that back then. So even if you discount some of the 580 00:50:24.639 --> 00:50:32.639 more modern sightings, the older ones cannot be ignored. Yeah. Pretty interesting. 581 00:50:32.920 --> 00:50:37.639 So did you ever, in some of your investigations approach to it and 582 00:50:38.159 --> 00:50:44.599 ask them for any sort of official ascim if they knew of anything going on 583 00:50:44.719 --> 00:50:50.840 in the area or ascent for a statement. I did not approach them to 584 00:50:50.960 --> 00:50:58.599 ask for a statement. I had talked to several former you know, military 585 00:50:58.639 --> 00:51:02.239 men who worked at Stewart. And again they said, don't even bother, 586 00:51:02.480 --> 00:51:07.880 they're not going to talk to you. So but I did talk to enough 587 00:51:08.320 --> 00:51:14.840 former personnel to get a pretty good picture of what they knew and what had 588 00:51:14.880 --> 00:51:20.159 been going on there. Well that's really interesting too. So you do have 589 00:51:20.239 --> 00:51:22.559 two books. You have in the Night Sky, I came out what last 590 00:51:22.639 --> 00:51:28.840 year? And then this year is Hudson Valley UFOs so pretty new, right, 591 00:51:29.960 --> 00:51:35.119 yes, just a couple of months old. I hadn't anticipated doing a 592 00:51:35.199 --> 00:51:40.000 second book, but people kept contacting me and saying, I have a story 593 00:51:40.039 --> 00:51:45.800 to tell you. You have to listen to me. And again there was 594 00:51:45.960 --> 00:51:50.760 just such a compelling group of stories. And when I found those nineteen oh 595 00:51:50.880 --> 00:51:54.159 nine articles, I said, okay, we can we can push the envelope 596 00:51:54.199 --> 00:52:01.400 back even farther now, and and you know, have an even richer tapestry 597 00:52:01.559 --> 00:52:07.400 of stories to tell the nature of the objects seen in nineteen oh nine. 598 00:52:07.440 --> 00:52:15.079 Were that the account similar to accounts that happened in mon Now, Well, 599 00:52:15.280 --> 00:52:20.519 yes, they didn't know what they were seeing. They were always at night. 600 00:52:21.320 --> 00:52:27.440 They were essentially seeing lights. Some thought perhaps they were cylindrical, just 601 00:52:27.559 --> 00:52:34.960 by lights at either end, and the characteristics were they could hover silently, 602 00:52:35.800 --> 00:52:40.119 and they could take off at great speeds, and they could stay in Some 603 00:52:40.239 --> 00:52:46.920 of the sightings lasted as long as four hours wow, which if you knew 604 00:52:46.960 --> 00:52:52.079 what you know, if you're familiar with what planes looked like in nineteen oh 605 00:52:52.159 --> 00:52:58.599 nine, they were lucky to stay up for thirty minutes. And no plane 606 00:52:59.000 --> 00:53:02.239 had yet to fly at night in the United States in nineteen oh nine. 607 00:53:02.440 --> 00:53:10.079 Oh really, no, So obviously there were dirigibles, you know, balloons 608 00:53:10.119 --> 00:53:15.679 and things, but clearly they're not capable of taking off at high speed. 609 00:53:15.679 --> 00:53:20.360 So I didn't you know, I'm I'm I'm very compulsive with this. I 610 00:53:20.679 --> 00:53:27.320 did all my research to make sure this wasn't some somebody's experimental craft, and 611 00:53:27.679 --> 00:53:32.239 in the hundred years since, no evidence has been found. And it's also 612 00:53:32.320 --> 00:53:37.280 important, nobody ever used the word alien or thought these were people from Mars. 613 00:53:37.639 --> 00:53:44.119 They they thought the Wright brothers or perhaps Thomas Edison who worked nearby in 614 00:53:44.199 --> 00:53:50.559 northern New Jersey, that he they had somebody had developed this remarkable aircraft. 615 00:53:51.519 --> 00:53:55.480 And you know, you'll read these articles and everybody's so excited. Nobody's panicking. 616 00:53:55.519 --> 00:54:00.480 They're excited to have to see these flights, and then they were just 617 00:54:00.599 --> 00:54:04.719 waiting. They expected any day now for somebody to announce, you know, 618 00:54:04.840 --> 00:54:07.880 Thomas Edison, to say, yes, I have developed this fabulous aircraft. 619 00:54:08.639 --> 00:54:15.840 So when modern critics say those mysterious airships were just cases of mass hysteria, 620 00:54:15.719 --> 00:54:21.639 nobody was afraid. Nobody was you know, thinking we were being invaded. 621 00:54:21.960 --> 00:54:29.840 Yeah, you can't have mass hysterias. People aren't hysterical exactly. That is 622 00:54:29.880 --> 00:54:34.760 so interesting. And it's interesting too that people kind of gave, you know, 623 00:54:34.800 --> 00:54:39.079 the right Brothers or Edison, kind of this almost mystical status like their 624 00:54:39.159 --> 00:54:44.760 magicians. They can, you know, with technology, create these things that 625 00:54:45.119 --> 00:54:51.159 looked like magic or almost supernatural. Right. It was a great age in 626 00:54:51.239 --> 00:54:54.880 the early nineteen hundreds of discovery and invention, and people were thrilled to be 627 00:54:54.960 --> 00:55:00.519 part of it. Yeah, pretty cool. So and I do love and 628 00:55:00.559 --> 00:55:06.920 that's that's really interesting. The Blue Book files, especially the ones that are 629 00:55:07.159 --> 00:55:10.880 unknowns. I think it's so interesting to look at those because, like you 630 00:55:10.960 --> 00:55:16.639 said, there are many accounts from air force personnel or other military personnel that 631 00:55:16.719 --> 00:55:23.079 are often taken more seriously than other witnesses, and their very interesting accounts. 632 00:55:23.079 --> 00:55:28.119 So it sounds like you ran across some of those. Well, I was 633 00:55:28.239 --> 00:55:34.239 under the misapprehension that I should only look at the unknowns. And then one 634 00:55:34.280 --> 00:55:38.199 of the first, one of the first cases I read the entire file for 635 00:55:39.159 --> 00:55:45.559 was Stewart Air Force Base nineteen fifty one. A captain and a lieutenant in 636 00:55:45.599 --> 00:55:50.880 the Air Force, who should have some clue of what's in the skies above 637 00:55:50.920 --> 00:55:59.719 them, cited an object moving with what they termed planned maneuverability, obviously under 638 00:55:59.719 --> 00:56:07.679 inteligent control, lighted essentially zigzagging back and forth over the base at high speed, 639 00:56:07.800 --> 00:56:12.280 and then they described the angle and the speed and the trajectory that this 640 00:56:12.559 --> 00:56:17.800 took off in a flash. They gave incredibly detailed reports, and yet the 641 00:56:17.840 --> 00:56:25.119 final conclusion was it was a weather balloon. And steam started coming out of 642 00:56:25.159 --> 00:56:31.519 my ears. And I read the twenty page report, and sure enough, 643 00:56:31.719 --> 00:56:39.159 at the last line of the last page stated no weather balloons had been released 644 00:56:39.239 --> 00:56:51.079 during this period, And so I very quickly lost my blue book innocence and 645 00:56:51.199 --> 00:56:57.880 realized they're just lying there. You know, here's this compelling sighting by two 646 00:56:57.960 --> 00:57:01.920 Air Force officers. They admit there's no air weather balloons in the air. 647 00:57:02.800 --> 00:57:10.079 Yet the official excuse conclusion was weather balloon. So I read every page of 648 00:57:10.480 --> 00:57:16.760 every blue book case that had anything to do with the Hudson Valley and found 649 00:57:17.960 --> 00:57:24.440 dozens and dozens of cases that were explained as you know, swamp gas, 650 00:57:24.519 --> 00:57:31.960 zenus, weather balloons, and actually had incredible testimony, photographs, sketches, 651 00:57:32.199 --> 00:57:38.760 multiple eye witnesses, all explained away. Mm hmm. And that is a 652 00:57:38.800 --> 00:57:43.760 good point, because I'm going through those. I first looked at it unknowns, 653 00:57:43.800 --> 00:57:50.320 but then I also looked at what Heinech considered an unknown the astronomer consultant, 654 00:57:50.760 --> 00:57:55.119 And what was interesting is they didn't always agree, and sometimes Heinich felt 655 00:57:55.320 --> 00:58:01.360 for no good reason one was something mundane when the Air Force didn't, which 656 00:58:01.400 --> 00:58:06.559 I thought was kind of interesting too. So right, I think you make 657 00:58:06.599 --> 00:58:09.360 a good point in the important because they did try to explain away a lot 658 00:58:09.400 --> 00:58:15.880 of them because they were just trying to close the files anyway they could exactly 659 00:58:15.239 --> 00:58:21.559 what were is an example maybe of another really good one that you came across, 660 00:58:22.280 --> 00:58:28.599 Well, there was a woman who reported seeing strange lights moving through the 661 00:58:28.599 --> 00:58:34.599 sky. In fact, the whole neighborhood was seeing things take off and land 662 00:58:34.639 --> 00:58:37.440 out of the woods. And this was happening over a two week period. 663 00:58:38.599 --> 00:58:44.239 One night, she followed one of these lights. She went back through the 664 00:58:44.280 --> 00:58:50.400 woods and she said there was a rounded, cylindrical, a circular craft. 665 00:58:51.079 --> 00:58:54.800 She drew a sketch of it. She said it was the size of a 666 00:58:54.880 --> 00:59:01.800 Volkswagen. She was fifty feet away from it. Submitted all this detailed information 667 00:59:02.000 --> 00:59:07.639 of times, you know, the sizes, the distances, all of these 668 00:59:07.679 --> 00:59:15.559 other witnesses, and the official conclusion was it was a meteor. M two 669 00:59:15.599 --> 00:59:21.360 weeks worth of detailed sightings, sketches and witnesses, and they said it was 670 00:59:21.519 --> 00:59:24.400 a meteor which you know, flashes through the sky in a heartbeat, right. 671 00:59:24.880 --> 00:59:32.519 So I was just I was infuriated reading these and like you said, 672 00:59:32.639 --> 00:59:37.480 often they'll do their due diligent, so they'll go around and ask, you 673 00:59:37.519 --> 00:59:40.360 know, if there are any meteors sited, and like you said, because 674 00:59:40.360 --> 00:59:45.639 I've read some of these files where they'll say there were no meteorites reported in 675 00:59:45.679 --> 00:59:52.360 the area, but still come to the conclusion that that's what it was exactly 676 00:59:52.960 --> 00:59:57.400 exactly. I was joking. You know, you know those those magic eight 677 00:59:57.480 --> 01:00:00.679 balls where you shake them, you get they must they must have had a 678 01:00:00.760 --> 01:00:07.079 cube in there that said meteor venus swamp gas and the conclusion is that hilarious. 679 01:00:09.639 --> 01:00:21.119 That's it. Yeah, So it turned out to be a substantial section 680 01:00:21.360 --> 01:00:24.760 of the new book because, uh, as you were saying, you know, 681 01:00:24.960 --> 01:00:31.559 people usually just look at the unknowns, and I just went through every 682 01:00:31.679 --> 01:00:37.400 month of every year and picked out anything that was located in the Hudson Valley 683 01:00:37.519 --> 01:00:45.119 and read the entire file. And it was as a real eye opener that 684 01:00:45.400 --> 01:00:51.199 this was far more prevalent than I had anticipated, and going on with a 685 01:00:51.280 --> 01:00:58.599 much greater intensity for more decades than I thought. So, honestly, I 686 01:00:58.639 --> 01:01:01.360 grew up also thanking. Well, you know, there was some things in 687 01:01:01.400 --> 01:01:05.800 the fifties, sixties, mostly in the eighties, and then it really didn't 688 01:01:05.880 --> 01:01:09.599 happen too much anymore. And now I'm you know, I see it's from 689 01:01:09.719 --> 01:01:15.360 nineteen oh nine to the present and it's never really let up. That was 690 01:01:15.400 --> 01:01:19.559 going to be my next question is is it still continuing? So you're still 691 01:01:19.599 --> 01:01:28.760 getting very interesting reports. Absolutely, two days ago there was a sighting of 692 01:01:28.800 --> 01:01:34.239 a Z shaped craft for at least ten or twelve minutes by a couple of 693 01:01:34.239 --> 01:01:40.880 witnesses. There was a lot of video that was taken in the Hudson Valley 694 01:01:40.960 --> 01:01:49.840 a year ago of this bright cylindrical upright object that was just pinned to the 695 01:01:49.920 --> 01:01:58.199 sky for hours, and a pilot who his job is doing a aerial photography 696 01:01:58.280 --> 01:02:02.280 for Hollywood. He tried calling air traffic control in the FAA and said, 697 01:02:02.360 --> 01:02:08.639 you have this massive object sitting in you know, highly traveled airspace here, 698 01:02:09.199 --> 01:02:13.480 and they just hung up on him. Nobody wanted to hear anything about it. 699 01:02:14.280 --> 01:02:20.599 Wow. And he videotaped this object for two hours. Wow. And 700 01:02:20.760 --> 01:02:27.880 many other people video taped it as well. And the only semi official word 701 01:02:28.000 --> 01:02:31.760 to come out of this whole thing was that it was a milar balloon that 702 01:02:31.920 --> 01:02:38.559 had been released somewhere in Kentucky and floated its way to Maine. Yet it 703 01:02:38.639 --> 01:02:44.519 was able to remain stationary in twenty six mile an hour winds for two hours, 704 01:02:44.599 --> 01:02:49.480 which is a pretty good trick for a mylar balloon. So here we 705 01:02:49.559 --> 01:02:58.920 are decades past Blue Book and we're still encountering the same resistance. Well, 706 01:02:59.440 --> 01:03:05.679 have you come up with any ideas or maybe speculated as to why this all 707 01:03:05.760 --> 01:03:13.519 happens in the Hudson Valley? I wish I knew a lot. A lot 708 01:03:13.599 --> 01:03:20.679 of the sightings are seen either above or in the Hudson River. Or we 709 01:03:20.800 --> 01:03:25.480 have a lot of reservoirs here. I had mentioned the Shawangunk Mountains earlier. 710 01:03:27.199 --> 01:03:32.400 They are very rich, rich with quartz crystals. We do have seismic activity 711 01:03:32.480 --> 01:03:38.519 here. We have a nuclear power plant. I don't know if there's some 712 01:03:38.840 --> 01:03:45.920 natural earth energies here that they can utilize. Perhaps that's why they're coming here. 713 01:03:46.920 --> 01:03:52.039 But you know, we didn't have Air Force bass and nuclear power plants 714 01:03:52.079 --> 01:03:58.840 back in nineteen oh nine either, So I can only speculate there's something about 715 01:03:59.519 --> 01:04:06.239 the gig or the geography of this area that they can use. And you've 716 01:04:06.320 --> 01:04:12.159 kind of touched on it earlier, and I think that there's a lot of 717 01:04:12.280 --> 01:04:15.840 UFO sightings. But there does also seem to be other phenom paranormal phenomena that 718 01:04:16.119 --> 01:04:23.719 is in abundance in this area as well, like hotspot for other things. 719 01:04:24.719 --> 01:04:28.239 A prime example of that is the town of pine Bush, which you may 720 01:04:28.280 --> 01:04:32.840 have heard about. And everybody I speak to in pine Bush they just shake 721 01:04:32.880 --> 01:04:38.960 their heads and say, weird stuff happens here, you know. And I 722 01:04:39.159 --> 01:04:45.239 have to agree, there's just something about pine Bush that isn't normal. And 723 01:04:45.320 --> 01:04:50.719 I say that affectionately. I love the place, but it's not saying that 724 01:04:50.800 --> 01:04:56.119 people aren't normal. No, just what goes on, Just what goes on. 725 01:04:56.400 --> 01:05:02.480 There have been sightings going back to the nineteen twenties, ghost stories everywhere 726 01:05:03.760 --> 01:05:10.000 you name the type of strange, bizarre activity and it's more than likely happened 727 01:05:10.000 --> 01:05:15.039 in pine Bush. Wow. How strange. And so when it comes to 728 01:05:15.079 --> 01:05:20.920 the UFO sightings, do you subscribe to the extraterrestrial hypothesis that perhaps that's what's 729 01:05:21.199 --> 01:05:30.159 behind these craft in the Pine Bush area? I believe, So I'm not 730 01:05:30.400 --> 01:05:34.440 ruling out that some of it could not have been military uh craft. But 731 01:05:34.559 --> 01:05:40.760 again, when we're talking going back to the nineteen twenties seeing the same thing, 732 01:05:42.440 --> 01:05:47.039 obviously I don't think we had the capability of that type of craft then 733 01:05:47.760 --> 01:05:56.519 either. So I think the predominant activity has to be extraterrestrial. And along 734 01:05:56.599 --> 01:06:00.719 those lines, you know, you've probably been ran across people who have felt 735 01:06:00.719 --> 01:06:06.880 that they've interacted with extraterrestrials. So do you feel that there's a lot of 736 01:06:06.920 --> 01:06:13.599 that in the area as well and possible abductions. Well, I did not 737 01:06:13.880 --> 01:06:18.639 expect that when I first started my research, and the very first person I 738 01:06:18.840 --> 01:06:27.559 interviewed just blew my mind. He was very credible. He started having abduction 739 01:06:27.679 --> 01:06:32.559 experiences when he was a kid in the nineteen fifties, and he just gave 740 01:06:32.599 --> 01:06:36.719 me chills. He just gave me chills sitting across from him listening to his 741 01:06:36.760 --> 01:06:41.840 stories. So his mother, who was in her eighties, was still alive, 742 01:06:42.559 --> 01:06:45.599 and I said, do you mind if I speak to your mother because 743 01:06:45.159 --> 01:06:49.599 I just wanted to find out did he have an over actor's imagination as a 744 01:06:49.719 --> 01:06:55.320 child, this or that? And I start speaking to this sweet little old 745 01:06:55.400 --> 01:07:00.559 lady who blows my mind again, starts telling me about her abduction. Wow, 746 01:07:00.519 --> 01:07:08.599 going back to the nineteen thirties, and now her grandchildren up in Vermont 747 01:07:08.800 --> 01:07:15.440 are having the same things happen. And abduction cases actually became the largest chapter 748 01:07:16.000 --> 01:07:20.519 in the book, in the Night Skybook, and it's like, how did 749 01:07:20.559 --> 01:07:25.639 this happen? And I just spent an hour and a half on the phone 750 01:07:25.719 --> 01:07:31.280 yesterday interviewing a woman who had the most chilling experiences going back to when she 751 01:07:31.480 --> 01:07:41.519 was a child as well. And it's it's so prevalent here. I can't 752 01:07:41.559 --> 01:07:46.440 explain it. Not so many know what happens, but so many people have 753 01:07:46.519 --> 01:07:50.679 told me they see a bright light or a landed craft. The next thing 754 01:07:50.719 --> 01:07:56.159 they know, it's three hours later, or it's the next morning, and 755 01:07:56.199 --> 01:08:02.719 they have scoop marks and bloody noses, and even these chilling cases of one 756 01:08:02.760 --> 01:08:10.119 woman who was three or four months pregnant saw this bright light and the next 757 01:08:10.239 --> 01:08:15.640 day she wasn't pregnant anymore. And it was really getting into territory. I 758 01:08:15.800 --> 01:08:24.000 was not prepared to tread, but I keep finding it over and over and 759 01:08:24.079 --> 01:08:31.159 over again, going back generations. It's funny because you know, I know, 760 01:08:31.239 --> 01:08:34.880 I think my coworkers DOHO feel similar. How the heck did we get 761 01:08:34.880 --> 01:08:39.920 here? You know, how the heck why are we so involved with all 762 01:08:39.960 --> 01:08:43.000 of this stuff that, you know, years ago we would have said it's 763 01:08:43.000 --> 01:08:47.560 pretty dang weird. So exactly, that's really interesting. But there's just so 764 01:08:47.720 --> 01:08:57.640 much compelling information there is, and it's coming from doctors, law professors, 765 01:08:58.039 --> 01:09:02.880 military men, police officers, politicians. I mean, I had this one 766 01:09:02.960 --> 01:09:10.640 politician tell me a story about this being that kept coming into his room night 767 01:09:10.720 --> 01:09:17.560 after night, and he was so certain of what he experienced he was willing 768 01:09:17.600 --> 01:09:21.680 to let me use his name. And I said, do you ever have 769 01:09:21.840 --> 01:09:26.800 any hope of being re elected, and he said, wow, I'd like 770 01:09:26.880 --> 01:09:30.359 to. I said, well, we're I appreciate your honest, you know, 771 01:09:30.880 --> 01:09:33.239 I appreciate your honesty, but we're making up a name for you. 772 01:09:33.399 --> 01:09:41.359 So when a politician whose livelihood depends on the votes is willing to state his 773 01:09:41.560 --> 01:09:48.199 case publicly and have his name used, that's that's pretty compelling. Uh huh. 774 01:09:48.279 --> 01:09:51.439 I think it was very wise of you to use a different name, 775 01:09:51.560 --> 01:09:57.079 and very nice of you too and consider it because I think, yeah, 776 01:09:57.119 --> 01:10:00.319 he would have also had a surprise in some of the problems he would ran 777 01:10:00.359 --> 01:10:04.439 into, absolutely had she used his name. That's so interesting, yeah, 778 01:10:04.760 --> 01:10:11.039 really really interesting stuff. So you've written two books, you know, almost 779 01:10:11.159 --> 01:10:15.279 about a year apart, so you've been keeping really busy, Yes, hectically 780 01:10:15.399 --> 01:10:21.840 busy, but I love it and I'm already already collecting more cases. They 781 01:10:23.600 --> 01:10:28.319 just don't stop coming. And now that these other two books are out, 782 01:10:28.359 --> 01:10:32.239 and of course the film, the In the Night Sky film, the more 783 01:10:32.319 --> 01:10:36.520 popularity at games, the more people are seeking me out to, you know, 784 01:10:36.600 --> 01:10:41.920 to tell their stories. Like this woman the other day. You know, 785 01:10:42.079 --> 01:10:45.800 she had not publicly told her story. That she's in her fifties now, 786 01:10:45.840 --> 01:10:50.079 and this has been going on her entire life. But she she was 787 01:10:50.119 --> 01:10:54.880 adamant. She goes, I want to know the truth and I want people 788 01:10:54.960 --> 01:10:59.960 to know what's been happening. So I think, you know, a life 789 01:11:00.159 --> 01:11:08.239 time of being ignored or ridiculed, people are just getting to the point where 790 01:11:08.880 --> 01:11:13.239 we don't care about it any the ridicule anymore. We need to tell our 791 01:11:13.279 --> 01:11:17.079 stories. Right in the film, I should mention that too, A documentary 792 01:11:17.359 --> 01:11:21.279 was made based on your book in the Night Sky at The documentary has the 793 01:11:21.319 --> 01:11:28.079 same name and it won the People's Choice Award at the UFO Congress in twenty 794 01:11:28.119 --> 01:11:33.600 thirteen, So hooray, yay. That was that UFO Congress. I have 795 01:11:33.680 --> 01:11:36.720 to say, if no one, you know, somebody hasn't been to that 796 01:11:36.840 --> 01:11:42.159 before, definitely go. We just had the time of our lives there. 797 01:11:43.399 --> 01:11:49.039 It's just so wonderful to be surrounded by people who know what you're talking about 798 01:11:49.119 --> 01:11:55.680 and have, you know, stories to share and insight it was. It's 799 01:11:55.760 --> 01:11:59.239 just such a wonderful event. Well, it's good to hear you say that, 800 01:11:59.279 --> 01:12:02.760 and I hope we see you at the next one. And the documentary 801 01:12:02.800 --> 01:12:09.319 people can go see and purchase at Night Sky UFO dot com. And where 802 01:12:09.399 --> 01:12:14.439 is the best place for people to go see your work. They can get 803 01:12:14.479 --> 01:12:20.199 my books on Amazon. They're available Barnes and Noble also just about every ebook 804 01:12:20.239 --> 01:12:27.359 format known to mankind. Uh huh, so it's very easy for them to 805 01:12:26.920 --> 01:12:30.800 uh to get it. And you have a say go to zim. Is 806 01:12:30.840 --> 01:12:33.960 that correct? Yes? G O t O z I M go to zim 807 01:12:34.039 --> 01:12:39.039 dot com. Books can be ordered directly if you want, you know, 808 01:12:39.159 --> 01:12:42.640 me to personalize a copy to you, I'd be happy to. Uh if 809 01:12:42.720 --> 01:12:46.560 you want to contact me about your story, uh, please do as I 810 01:12:46.640 --> 01:12:54.439 said, I am still very interested in collecting uh more evidence so you can 811 01:12:54.479 --> 01:12:58.920 see where I'm speaking and the other strange things I'm up to, m hm 812 01:12:59.520 --> 01:13:02.479 and so. And you have another UFO book in the works, then it 813 01:13:02.560 --> 01:13:09.119 sounds like right, I have no time frame for that, but I am 814 01:13:09.319 --> 01:13:15.600 actively still collecting information because really in the Hudson Valley there's not I don't know 815 01:13:15.640 --> 01:13:20.039 of anybody else who's doing this. Who is you know, interviewing people and 816 01:13:20.479 --> 01:13:27.479 collecting their stories. So you know, there are some support groups. There's 817 01:13:27.479 --> 01:13:31.000 one in Pine Bush actually Walker Valley where you know, people who have had 818 01:13:31.039 --> 01:13:38.119 experiences can go and share stories, but nobody's really documenting them, and that's 819 01:13:38.159 --> 01:13:43.520 what I'm trying to do. And you're still out there hunting ghosts. Yes, 820 01:13:43.640 --> 01:13:47.039 I have a pine Bush ghost hunt set up for tomorrow night, so 821 01:13:47.520 --> 01:13:51.359 I'll be back in crazy and weird pine Bush. And I do want to 822 01:13:51.399 --> 01:13:57.520 mention if anybody is in this area, the town of pine Bush has actually 823 01:13:57.840 --> 01:14:06.960 designated a uh A location where you can go and SkyWatch nobody. Yes, 824 01:14:08.359 --> 01:14:13.239 this is a huge step because they used to arrest people who parked along the 825 01:14:13.279 --> 01:14:15.960 side of the road and tried to look for UFO. They learn about that. 826 01:14:16.720 --> 01:14:23.039 Yes, it was illegal to SkyWatch in pine Bush for the longest time. 827 01:14:23.720 --> 01:14:30.239 And now pine Bush has a yearly UFO festival and they have a designated 828 01:14:30.520 --> 01:14:35.960 UFO citing location. So times are changing, yay. And have you found 829 01:14:36.039 --> 01:14:40.760 that I guess my last question we talked about media and everything in the media, 830 01:14:40.840 --> 01:14:44.640 how they treated the subject in the eighties. It seems like it's gotten 831 01:14:44.720 --> 01:14:50.279 better. Do you feel that's true? In some locations that has definitely gotten 832 01:14:50.399 --> 01:14:58.960 better. But unfortunately the local while the local press supported the UFO festival, 833 01:14:59.560 --> 01:15:03.560 the New York Post in the city you know, talked about it being a 834 01:15:03.560 --> 01:15:09.760 bunch of you know, freaks and green rubber suits. So there's still that, 835 01:15:10.239 --> 01:15:13.439 you know, wink wink, nudge, nudge. It's the UFO crazy 836 01:15:13.479 --> 01:15:20.159 people staying New York City people, and they should talk right right exactly. 837 01:15:21.479 --> 01:15:27.640 They've got their own reputation to worry about, yes they do, all right. 838 01:15:27.720 --> 01:15:30.279 Well, thank you so much for taking the time to be on the 839 01:15:30.319 --> 01:15:33.600 show. Really interesting stuff, and I hope people go check out your books, 840 01:15:33.840 --> 01:15:40.119 and it's great that you've moved into this area and have been contributing. 841 01:15:40.279 --> 01:15:44.640 So thank you very much. Thank you. This was wonderful and I do 842 01:15:44.760 --> 01:15:47.800 hope to see you with the next UFO Congress. I'll be there, Okay, 843 01:15:48.159 --> 01:15:53.359 take care, all right. Thank you so much to linda' zimmerman for 844 01:15:53.439 --> 01:15:58.359 being on the show Really interesting Stuff. I implore you to go get her 845 01:15:58.399 --> 01:16:03.199 books and to also watch the documentary, really really good stuff. And do 846 01:16:03.399 --> 01:16:08.560 come to the UFO Congress this year. In fact, we just posted the 847 01:16:08.720 --> 01:16:14.319 dates and we opened registrations so you can go register and everything. So we 848 01:16:14.359 --> 01:16:17.880 don't have any speakers listed yet, however, because the thing sells out and 849 01:16:18.239 --> 01:16:24.720 it's so popular and it's the biggest conference in the world on UFOs, people 850 01:16:24.760 --> 01:16:29.279 want to register immediately, even before they have speaker information, so they can 851 01:16:29.279 --> 01:16:30.800 get in there early. Because of course, especially when it comes to the 852 01:16:30.800 --> 01:16:33.920 hotel, I always tell you guys this, but luckily a lot of you 853 01:16:33.960 --> 01:16:38.359 come up and tell me, man, thanks for telling me about getting into 854 01:16:38.399 --> 01:16:42.800 the hotel early, because the hotel does sell out, and there are other 855 01:16:42.840 --> 01:16:45.560 hotels, but they are a little bit of a distance away, or at 856 01:16:45.640 --> 01:16:47.359 least, you know, it's always nice to say in the same hotel that 857 01:16:48.039 --> 01:16:51.720 all the speakers and all the events are in. So go ahead and go 858 01:16:51.800 --> 01:16:57.760 to open minds dot tv or Ufocongress dot com. We also have like UFO 859 01:16:57.800 --> 01:17:02.039 Congress dot orgon dot net a stuff. But go to open mindset tv or 860 01:17:02.239 --> 01:17:09.560 ufocongress dot com and you can go register for the conference. And actually these 861 01:17:09.600 --> 01:17:12.960 days I've seen a lot of conferences that are shorter and costs more. So 862 01:17:13.399 --> 01:17:15.399 it's a great deal and you'll want to check that out. And of course 863 01:17:15.439 --> 01:17:24.039 the earlier you register, the better the deal. Otherwise, remember spacing out. 864 01:17:24.079 --> 01:17:26.920 If you go to our site, you'll see that on YouTube, and 865 01:17:27.079 --> 01:17:30.680 all of the news and stories that we talked about you'll see on our website. 866 01:17:30.680 --> 01:17:33.279 There at openminds dot tv, We have another really cool video too. 867 01:17:33.279 --> 01:17:40.000 I've talked a lot about this Air Force letter that I sent out and Richard 868 01:17:40.039 --> 01:17:43.680 Dodi and disinformation and all of this, and we've got a new video coming 869 01:17:43.680 --> 01:17:47.560 out hopefully today or at least this week where we go in depth into this 870 01:17:47.840 --> 01:17:53.279 and give you more information. I talked about this on Coast Coast and on 871 01:17:53.640 --> 01:17:57.720 podcast UFO and stuff. So yeah, finally it'll be out in video format. 872 01:17:57.800 --> 01:18:00.279 If you're not the type who likes to read follow links and stuff, 873 01:18:00.319 --> 01:18:04.479 and sometimes it's easier just to watch a video, so that will be out 874 01:18:04.520 --> 01:18:10.359 as well. So just come to Openminds dot tv to see that, look 875 01:18:10.399 --> 01:18:16.920 forward to Roger Marsh's stories on move On Sightings and you know, all kinds 876 01:18:16.960 --> 01:18:20.960 of really cool stuff. So before we go, as usual, I want 877 01:18:21.000 --> 01:18:26.000 to thank the guys who created our awesome open and closed music. We always 878 01:18:26.039 --> 01:18:28.720 have a lot of people saying, man, your music is cool, and 879 01:18:28.800 --> 01:18:34.159 it is and it's done by Caleb Hanks. He has a website called the 880 01:18:34.239 --> 01:18:39.159 clerk Chronicles. You can go there, you can register, you can google 881 01:18:39.199 --> 01:18:43.960 clerk Chronicles Caleb Hanks. You'll find his site and he actually posts his music 882 01:18:43.960 --> 01:18:47.279 for free. It's really cool stuff, but thank you to Caleb Hanks for 883 01:18:47.359 --> 01:18:53.880 the music. Otherwise, join us next week for another great show, and 884 01:18:54.039 --> 01:19:27.199 thank you all for joining us this week. Adiosmoochatos.