WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.560 --> 00:00:05.679 The Carpentry Show with Robin Clevitt, powered by Festal's new innovative eighteen volt cordless 2 00:00:05.759 --> 00:00:10.199 range from drills to sours, including dust extraction, all powered by eighteen volt 3 00:00:10.240 --> 00:00:17.679 batteries. Discover the more at festal dot co dot UK. Welcome to The 4 00:00:17.679 --> 00:00:21.839 Carpentry Show with Festal on fixed Radio. I'm Robin Clevitt with you for the 5 00:00:21.879 --> 00:00:25.800 next hour. Something I get all the time from listeners, from followers of 6 00:00:25.839 --> 00:00:30.199 mine on social media and YouTube is how do I know I'm charging enough? 7 00:00:30.320 --> 00:00:35.399 And yes, it is the million dollar question to excuse the financial pun. 8 00:00:35.439 --> 00:00:38.560 Okay, so it's not just newcomers to the trade that asked me this. 9 00:00:38.920 --> 00:00:43.079 And with inflation and the cost of living crisis the way it is, we're 10 00:00:43.079 --> 00:00:46.679 just having to adjust our prices more than ever. Now we're lucky we can 11 00:00:46.719 --> 00:00:49.320 do that because we're self employed. In most cases, if you are employed, 12 00:00:49.359 --> 00:00:51.960 your looks looking at the radio thinking I cannot do that. So on 13 00:00:52.000 --> 00:00:56.520 today's show, I've got two guests with a wealth of experience to help give 14 00:00:56.600 --> 00:01:00.640 some advice and I'll share some of my own thoughts on this too. So 15 00:01:00.759 --> 00:01:03.880 the last week I have you know, as a carpenter as a creative. 16 00:01:03.079 --> 00:01:07.319 It could be any kind of craftsperson. You make something, you stand back, 17 00:01:07.439 --> 00:01:12.640 and even after thirty sort of seven years of practicing my craft, I 18 00:01:12.719 --> 00:01:19.680 still get that buzz standing back and looking. I've been making this slatted wall 19 00:01:19.719 --> 00:01:22.200 screen out of ply. Would believe it or not, it's a birch ply 20 00:01:22.280 --> 00:01:25.840 alternative. I've mentioned it before a couple of times in the show. It's 21 00:01:25.879 --> 00:01:27.959 called street tech, so it looks a little bit like birch PLI, especially 22 00:01:27.959 --> 00:01:32.480 when you look at the cut edges. It's got loads of plies, very 23 00:01:32.760 --> 00:01:36.840 few defects and corvoids, which means there's holes in between the plies. And 24 00:01:37.519 --> 00:01:42.640 we've built a decorative slatted wall screen in my garden room with curved walls and 25 00:01:42.719 --> 00:01:47.079 hidden doors, and it has just come out absolutely brilliantly. And I just 26 00:01:47.159 --> 00:01:52.280 think that we should always remember why we came into this trade, even though 27 00:01:52.359 --> 00:01:57.040 sometimes the money causes us headaches, which we are going to discuss. Sometimes 28 00:01:57.079 --> 00:02:01.879 you need to step back and realize that we blessed with the ability to think 29 00:02:01.879 --> 00:02:07.959 about something, make something fit something, creates something. And I think that 30 00:02:07.240 --> 00:02:12.599 as much as we need money to survive, sometimes being mindful in the moment 31 00:02:12.719 --> 00:02:15.719 and doing something like that is super important. I want to also want to 32 00:02:15.759 --> 00:02:19.639 shout out at as well, because he's coming on so well, he's you 33 00:02:19.680 --> 00:02:22.280 know, he I called him my apprentice. He's been with me two years 34 00:02:22.319 --> 00:02:24.800 now, so he's kind of in his own writer carpenter. I'll give him 35 00:02:24.840 --> 00:02:28.560 that, but he's also you know, doing some of the stuff I let 36 00:02:28.639 --> 00:02:30.840 him do. I wouldn't let myself do that when I was his sort of 37 00:02:30.879 --> 00:02:36.360 age. Anyway, I'll be joined by my first guest very soon. Fix 38 00:02:36.520 --> 00:02:40.719 radio time to crack on. You're listening to the Carpentry Show with Festal. 39 00:02:40.960 --> 00:02:46.120 I'm Robin Clevitt and joining me now is John Argyle, a carpenter with a 40 00:02:46.240 --> 00:02:51.520 wealth of experience that operates in the West Midlands as m field refurbishments. What 41 00:02:51.639 --> 00:02:54.479 would you say the day rate for a carpenter right now is okay? So 42 00:02:54.680 --> 00:02:59.800 how much money is a carpenter worth? And is that in line with the 43 00:03:00.080 --> 00:03:05.240 based expectations in the industry? Okay? So I would say yes if you 44 00:03:05.360 --> 00:03:08.479 have experience, know if you don't, because you can start it as you 45 00:03:08.520 --> 00:03:12.000 know, a really low rate. But I would have said I would have 46 00:03:12.000 --> 00:03:15.439 said between two hundred and two hundred and fifty pounds the going rate now for 47 00:03:15.560 --> 00:03:20.520 somebody with a round about ten to fifteen years worth of experience. I think 48 00:03:20.560 --> 00:03:23.919 younger people all always want to earn more money, but certainly between two fifty 49 00:03:24.280 --> 00:03:28.360 and three hundred would be if you're supplying a service. But I think a 50 00:03:28.479 --> 00:03:31.400 chippy between two hundred and two fifty at the moment as I know it in 51 00:03:31.439 --> 00:03:36.120 the Birmingham area. Yeah, and that's that's really interesting actually, because I 52 00:03:36.199 --> 00:03:38.840 was sort of you know, if I had to write down a figure, 53 00:03:38.080 --> 00:03:40.599 I would have been smack banging in the middle of that. I was expecting 54 00:03:40.599 --> 00:03:46.280 you to say, I think, yeah, I think that's absolutely industry standard. 55 00:03:46.280 --> 00:03:47.879 Actually, so I mean, and you're dead right though. What you've 56 00:03:47.919 --> 00:03:52.639 just said then is the most important thing. If you're a time served tradesman 57 00:03:52.840 --> 00:03:55.800 or your own tools and transport, and you can deliver the product or the 58 00:03:55.840 --> 00:04:00.400 project or whatever, then yes, you're worth it. If you're come into 59 00:04:00.439 --> 00:04:02.240 the industry, you've done a two year course. No offense to anyone who's 60 00:04:02.280 --> 00:04:06.159 just coming and done a two year course, agree, but you need to 61 00:04:06.199 --> 00:04:09.840 get the experience, and you need to get the speed up, and you 62 00:04:09.879 --> 00:04:15.759 need to really sort of you know get on basically, but yeah, okay, 63 00:04:15.800 --> 00:04:18.800 So talking about costs, how do you typically figure out your costs and 64 00:04:18.920 --> 00:04:23.720 what you need to earn when you're pricing a job. So I've got a 65 00:04:23.759 --> 00:04:28.319 couple of different systems I use. Some people wants to charge them per day. 66 00:04:28.680 --> 00:04:31.120 Some people want us to charge them per job. So if I was 67 00:04:31.160 --> 00:04:34.480 typically looking at doing a job that I knew would take me about three or 68 00:04:34.480 --> 00:04:39.120 four days, I would price it on a week's worth of wages for me 69 00:04:39.600 --> 00:04:42.759 and for my colleague. Now, she earns obviously less than me because she's 70 00:04:42.759 --> 00:04:46.519 only been doing it for about five years, but because of what she brings 71 00:04:46.560 --> 00:04:49.160 to the party as well, I charge that little bit more for her because 72 00:04:49.199 --> 00:04:54.279 I think she's more capable although she's only been doing it for four or five 73 00:04:54.360 --> 00:04:57.519 years. With me, I would charge a little bit more for her to 74 00:04:57.560 --> 00:05:00.079 cover some other costs of transport. But and equally, I'll say it, 75 00:05:00.160 --> 00:05:03.959 rob, if I'm doing a price job, then I would almost put another 76 00:05:04.079 --> 00:05:08.120 hundred quid on top of my day rate. Then, because it's a job 77 00:05:08.160 --> 00:05:10.879 that I've got to think about what happens if I'm a day over. Yeah, 78 00:05:11.319 --> 00:05:13.439 if we get to the end of the job, and we can't complete 79 00:05:13.439 --> 00:05:17.199 it because our xy is at or multiple contractors. You waited on that last 80 00:05:17.279 --> 00:05:19.600 day to get it done. You should be done on the thursday, the 81 00:05:19.639 --> 00:05:23.160 spark you should have turned up to up. You put the chaundelier up in 82 00:05:23.199 --> 00:05:26.160 the conservatory or wherever it was, and he couldn't come into the Friday. 83 00:05:26.279 --> 00:05:29.000 So then you've got to come back and the customers say, we were already 84 00:05:29.000 --> 00:05:30.680 going to be here. It's that I call it the test goes too for 85 00:05:30.759 --> 00:05:34.240 one effect, where they realize they think all of a sudden, oh, 86 00:05:34.319 --> 00:05:36.920 he's going to be here anyway, whilst it's here, we can get him 87 00:05:36.920 --> 00:05:40.399 to do some extra work for free. Yeah, I know. It's it's 88 00:05:40.600 --> 00:05:44.439 an absolute classic that John. You've been in this game long enough to know 89 00:05:44.480 --> 00:05:46.639 that that happens a hell of a lot, doesn't it. You know so, 90 00:05:46.199 --> 00:05:49.160 And you're dead right though about you know, if it's three days work, 91 00:05:49.199 --> 00:05:53.680 well actually it's the best part of a week. You know what you're 92 00:05:53.680 --> 00:05:55.439 going to do, what you're going to do in that other time. It's 93 00:05:55.439 --> 00:05:57.600 no good saying I just have two days off, because no, we can't 94 00:05:57.639 --> 00:06:02.439 do that. We need to still earn money in a week. I know, 95 00:06:03.279 --> 00:06:06.319 it wouldn't it wouldn't it be lovely? I mean, okay, let's 96 00:06:06.360 --> 00:06:11.399 talk about how organized things are then, So how organized are you with like 97 00:06:11.480 --> 00:06:15.600 the financial and running costs of your day to day work and how do you 98 00:06:15.639 --> 00:06:18.720 do that? Okay, so I've got I've got a little bit of input 99 00:06:18.839 --> 00:06:21.800 from my wife. She's very good. That's sort of saying to me, 100 00:06:23.040 --> 00:06:26.120 do you think you've charged enough for that? Do you think that's worth? 101 00:06:26.360 --> 00:06:30.560 And we've gone through a little system this year of looking at where we are 102 00:06:30.600 --> 00:06:34.480 with materials and costs and labor and fuel and adding that little bit more percentage. 103 00:06:34.639 --> 00:06:36.959 But if you was to say to a customer, by the way, 104 00:06:38.000 --> 00:06:41.120 I'm now charging you three hundred pounds a day, you probably find you had 105 00:06:41.199 --> 00:06:44.920 less work than you did if they think they're paying you two hundred pounds a 106 00:06:45.000 --> 00:06:46.759 day. And this is where as you said, pricing, the job will 107 00:06:46.800 --> 00:06:50.720 be is making sure that you are low for those extra materials there extra day. 108 00:06:51.000 --> 00:06:53.920 So what I tend to do is look at it, sit down, 109 00:06:54.240 --> 00:06:57.360 work it out, and then I used to have a system called double that. 110 00:06:57.959 --> 00:07:00.560 So once you put your vat from your teals and stuff on, then 111 00:07:00.879 --> 00:07:04.759 twenty percent then is your profit on top of that again, so it's almost 112 00:07:04.800 --> 00:07:09.360 like a we call it double that if not, but it's that system of 113 00:07:09.480 --> 00:07:14.160 no exactly where you need that extra money because if you get to the end 114 00:07:14.160 --> 00:07:15.439 of the week and you think, well I got a minute by the time 115 00:07:15.480 --> 00:07:17.720 I worked that out, it was actually on less than one hundred and fifty 116 00:07:17.720 --> 00:07:23.079 pounds day. Price in a job is much more lucrative. But I think 117 00:07:23.519 --> 00:07:26.720 sometimes that big figure scares people. But if they think they've got you for 118 00:07:26.759 --> 00:07:30.360 two hundred pounds a day plus materials, yeah, if they don't, it's 119 00:07:30.399 --> 00:07:32.680 not being deceitful. But you've got to cover your costs somewhere of it with 120 00:07:32.759 --> 00:07:38.079 everything being more expensive, and that's extra day that other trade. So you 121 00:07:38.079 --> 00:07:40.600 know, I look at it. I've got a little spreadsheet for it. 122 00:07:40.639 --> 00:07:44.680 But I've been doing it long enough. Very rarely do I lose out on 123 00:07:44.720 --> 00:07:47.519 a job. I actually end up with more work rub which is then a 124 00:07:47.680 --> 00:07:50.959 knock on effect of the next job because I'm not running a big team anymore. 125 00:07:51.120 --> 00:07:54.160 Yeah, any three of us. Yeah, and I think that's a 126 00:07:54.160 --> 00:07:57.600 sweet spot as well. I mean, I'm I'm a tiny spot. I 127 00:07:57.680 --> 00:08:00.240 know you're a bit like me. You'd bring in subcontractors. If you need 128 00:08:00.240 --> 00:08:03.199 a plaster, you'll bring a plaster in. You'll get a price off them, 129 00:08:03.319 --> 00:08:05.399 you might put a margin on it, and that's it. You haven't 130 00:08:05.399 --> 00:08:07.399 got to worry about it anymore over you, you know. And what you're 131 00:08:07.439 --> 00:08:09.639 saying there about the clients, they think, oh, yeah, I can 132 00:08:09.680 --> 00:08:13.319 afford two hundred pound a day because they don't know how long it's going to 133 00:08:13.360 --> 00:08:16.560 take. But what happens then is then they're sort of like clock watching you, 134 00:08:16.800 --> 00:08:20.720 standing over you saying, oh, I thought you left at four thirty. 135 00:08:20.759 --> 00:08:22.399 You know, well, I need to leave it forward to go to 136 00:08:22.199 --> 00:08:26.519 the supplier on your behalf to pick up your material in my time. And 137 00:08:26.560 --> 00:08:31.720 it's all of those awkward conversations that you end up on daywork. That's like, 138 00:08:31.920 --> 00:08:33.360 that's why I only ever do anything on a price. And you know 139 00:08:33.360 --> 00:08:37.639 what else I do as well. I actually say here's my costs and here's 140 00:08:37.639 --> 00:08:39.399 my profit And they say, oh, I said, well, I'm a 141 00:08:39.440 --> 00:08:43.399 business. I need to earn a profit. Are you going to deprive me 142 00:08:43.440 --> 00:08:48.039 of my profit? And do you know it's it's incredible because a lot of 143 00:08:48.039 --> 00:08:50.240 the people I work for a professionals and they totally get it. They totally 144 00:08:50.279 --> 00:08:54.399 accept it, you know, correct, Yeah, I mean so the cost 145 00:08:54.440 --> 00:08:58.879 of living, go for it. No, sorry, I've got my little 146 00:08:58.240 --> 00:09:03.240 niche of custom now is about a dozen and they rotate every sort of five 147 00:09:03.320 --> 00:09:05.120 to ten years. They come back to me, leave years, do whatever, 148 00:09:05.200 --> 00:09:07.320 and they'll say to me at the end of it, are you happy 149 00:09:07.360 --> 00:09:11.240 with that? John? Are you making enough money? And I will tell 150 00:09:11.279 --> 00:09:15.200 them straight yes or no. It's got I've got to have the state now, 151 00:09:15.279 --> 00:09:18.039 Rob, where I will only work for people that are recommended by the 152 00:09:18.080 --> 00:09:22.480 people I work for. I don't call call, I don't advertise, I 153 00:09:22.519 --> 00:09:26.159 don't do any of that good and haven't done. And I think that that's 154 00:09:26.159 --> 00:09:30.240 the beauty of being as established as you are, doing the quality of work 155 00:09:30.279 --> 00:09:33.080 that you're doing, and having that knowledge that you've got. I mean, 156 00:09:33.080 --> 00:09:35.480 you don't need to ask anyone anything because you've been there and seen it and 157 00:09:35.519 --> 00:09:39.519 done it. That's why you're worth what you're worth. Okay. And still 158 00:09:39.559 --> 00:09:41.720 we still learn every day, Rob, don't from the things that we find. 159 00:09:43.279 --> 00:09:46.320 Yeah, you take more to the game. My major was used to 160 00:09:46.360 --> 00:09:48.720 say to me, it's not what you can do, John, it's what 161 00:09:48.759 --> 00:09:52.360 you bring to the game. As in every part of your knowledge, your 162 00:09:52.399 --> 00:09:56.960 tools, your experience, your contacts, your suppliers, your subbays. You 163 00:09:56.080 --> 00:09:58.919 are. You are the package that people want because they want you to deal 164 00:10:00.039 --> 00:10:01.840 with everything. They don't want to go somewhere else to get somebody else to 165 00:10:01.919 --> 00:10:05.320 do something else. John, can you sort it? Is afraid? He'd 166 00:10:05.320 --> 00:10:09.279 I hear so often though. Yeah, I think you're dead right. And 167 00:10:09.600 --> 00:10:13.960 I was going to mention sort of about have you adjusted you I know, 168 00:10:13.799 --> 00:10:18.320 I'll take everything use as a head in consideration. You're established client base, 169 00:10:18.440 --> 00:10:20.559 the fact that they're you know, they're very respectful of you, and they 170 00:10:20.639 --> 00:10:24.519 want you to make money. But have you adjusted your prices based on the 171 00:10:24.559 --> 00:10:28.120 cost of living crisis that aspiring here? I know that petrol's coming down and 172 00:10:28.240 --> 00:10:31.159 materials are coming down, but all the other things, I mean, what 173 00:10:31.200 --> 00:10:35.279 are your thoughts on that? No, this is weird. I went to 174 00:10:35.399 --> 00:10:39.440 the last job that we just did. It is a customer I've known for 175 00:10:39.840 --> 00:10:43.799 twenty years, surgeon and his wife, and they live in a really nice 176 00:10:43.840 --> 00:10:48.639 area of Edge question, and they told me how much money they were prepared 177 00:10:48.679 --> 00:10:52.919 to spend on this project. That's a first for me, Not John, 178 00:10:52.960 --> 00:10:56.600 how much blah blah, blah. The time scale was unreal. I was 179 00:10:56.720 --> 00:11:00.320 never going to finish it on time. However, the cost they get evening, 180 00:11:00.679 --> 00:11:03.480 I just sat there and I kept myself because I thought, you know 181 00:11:03.559 --> 00:11:07.200 what, if they're prepared to pay this now, then next time we don't 182 00:11:07.240 --> 00:11:11.360 have the conversation. And it was very much inflated on what I would have 183 00:11:11.480 --> 00:11:15.320 charged them. Yeah, well this is lovely, isn't it very inflated? 184 00:11:15.519 --> 00:11:18.840 Yeah, yeah, it's rare, but it's becoming better now because people don't 185 00:11:18.879 --> 00:11:22.960 want anybody else. They want they want their job done by the person. 186 00:11:24.039 --> 00:11:28.039 Yet that has a value in itself. Don't know that has absolute value. 187 00:11:28.440 --> 00:11:33.080 Okay, a couple of things here, Any tips for carpenters who think they're 188 00:11:33.120 --> 00:11:35.919 just not charging enough money? Taking everything into consideration about you know, are 189 00:11:35.960 --> 00:11:39.960 they established and all the rest of it. Yeah, I think you see, 190 00:11:39.919 --> 00:11:43.559 I've I've watched some of my I've got several apprentices, as you know, 191 00:11:43.919 --> 00:11:48.919 who are in their twenties and thirties and forties, and quite regularly we 192 00:11:48.960 --> 00:11:52.600 talk about this, are we charging enough? What would you charge? What 193 00:11:52.639 --> 00:11:56.480 do you think? And we have this conversation every week in our little group 194 00:11:56.519 --> 00:11:58.039 on what's up? What do you reckon for this, John, And I 195 00:11:58.120 --> 00:12:01.919 now go back to them, say what do you think I should be charged 196 00:12:01.120 --> 00:12:03.759 in for this? And I tell them they go genera, you could charge 197 00:12:03.759 --> 00:12:07.279 a bit more than that. And then I come back to somebody who charged 198 00:12:07.519 --> 00:12:11.440 one of my lads who charged way over the odds to cut a letter plate 199 00:12:11.559 --> 00:12:16.200 in an expensive door, and the customer is more than happy to pay him, 200 00:12:16.440 --> 00:12:20.000 but then wasn't happy to pay the cost for the complete reguttering of the 201 00:12:20.000 --> 00:12:22.639 front of his house. So you look at it, you think what was 202 00:12:22.679 --> 00:12:26.840 one person prepared to pay more than another? And it's not the cars on 203 00:12:26.879 --> 00:12:30.159 the drive rob or what they do for a living. It's the service that 204 00:12:30.200 --> 00:12:33.159 you can provide to them. Do they feel comfortable paying you one they've paid 205 00:12:33.200 --> 00:12:37.000 you? Is the job going to be what you want? And I think 206 00:12:37.039 --> 00:12:39.960 that's the hardest part of your client base, because everybody will pay somebody per 207 00:12:41.039 --> 00:12:45.120 day to do a job. People are some people are more productive than others. 208 00:12:45.240 --> 00:12:48.639 I know guys that run sites that have got subbays that they wouldn't pay 209 00:12:48.679 --> 00:12:52.759 their lads in rusty washers and the other lads they want they're not allowed to 210 00:12:52.799 --> 00:12:56.799 have becaust Apparently they charge ten pound more a day. Yeah, it's ridiculous. 211 00:12:56.639 --> 00:13:00.879 It's a gray area. Yeah, it's a gray area. Ridiculous. 212 00:13:01.919 --> 00:13:03.080 Well, I'll tell you what, mate, you are certainly a wealth of 213 00:13:03.159 --> 00:13:07.840 knowledge, and I will definitely if you'll allow me to invite you back when 214 00:13:07.879 --> 00:13:11.320 I need you, that would be fantastic. You're brilliant. Absolutely, We've 215 00:13:11.360 --> 00:13:16.120 got so much to discuss here in this industry. We certainly do. Anyway. 216 00:13:16.279 --> 00:13:20.399 Sean Matthews, a former Screwfix, top tradesperson and show regular, will 217 00:13:20.519 --> 00:13:24.759 join us to give his thoughts. After some more music, Here's Queen Don't 218 00:13:24.759 --> 00:13:28.919 stop Me now on fixed radio Fixed Radio. I'm Robin Clevitt, and today 219 00:13:30.000 --> 00:13:33.559 on the Carpentry Show, I've been asking whether you're charging enough for your services 220 00:13:33.600 --> 00:13:39.360 as a tradesperson. Joining me now is friend of the show and top tradesperson 221 00:13:39.799 --> 00:13:43.440 Sean Matthews. What would you say the day ray is for a carpenter right 222 00:13:43.480 --> 00:13:50.200 now? And is that in line with the industry sort of expectations in our 223 00:13:50.279 --> 00:13:54.240 area the moment, Robin, we're paying anything between one hundred and forty no 224 00:13:54.519 --> 00:14:01.799 end about two twenty a day for a subcontract carpenter um in other areas said 225 00:14:01.799 --> 00:14:05.200 obviously, I think that they're going a lot more um and that's sort of 226 00:14:05.240 --> 00:14:09.919 the average cost. I would say between for somebody half tidy, you're going 227 00:14:09.960 --> 00:14:11.639 to be playing at least two hundred pounds a day. Yeah, and I 228 00:14:11.639 --> 00:14:15.240 think that concurs with quite a lot of the rest of the country, to 229 00:14:15.320 --> 00:14:20.600 be honest, and when when you reference tidy, explain to the listener what 230 00:14:20.759 --> 00:14:26.159 you mean by tidy. Somebody's confidence in your work's got to be able. 231 00:14:26.480 --> 00:14:31.080 I would expect somebody with a van with tools, you know, ask as 232 00:14:31.120 --> 00:14:33.679 many questions as you want. That's never a problem. You need to be 233 00:14:33.679 --> 00:14:37.159 confident. You need to be once everything's explained and you know what's going on, 234 00:14:37.200 --> 00:14:41.159 to be able to do the task. And then that warrants that you 235 00:14:41.200 --> 00:14:46.600 know obviously that hourly rates or that daily rate. Yeah, that's so true, 236 00:14:46.639 --> 00:14:48.919 isn't it. And I think that I often reference the fact that if 237 00:14:48.960 --> 00:14:54.080 you have got your own transport, your own tools, your time served, 238 00:14:54.360 --> 00:14:58.399 your reliable, punctual hank, and hold a decent conversation and do the work 239 00:14:58.519 --> 00:15:03.840 let's beyond list then yes, you probably can command the top money in the 240 00:15:05.360 --> 00:15:07.159 area at the time if you like. Okay, and I know that for 241 00:15:07.360 --> 00:15:11.639 years. All trades people just chase the day work, you know, they 242 00:15:11.720 --> 00:15:15.120 chase the money. My late father in law was a bricklayer and he would 243 00:15:15.240 --> 00:15:18.200 dump. He would jump from one site to another one the next day if 244 00:15:18.200 --> 00:15:20.320 they were paying five pound more a day. You know, it's it's on 245 00:15:20.320 --> 00:15:22.600 one hand, there's no loyalty. On the other hand, that's just the 246 00:15:22.639 --> 00:15:26.639 way the industry is, isn't it. Yeah, it is. I try 247 00:15:26.679 --> 00:15:31.799 to steal away from being from from the hourly you know, a day work 248 00:15:31.919 --> 00:15:35.120 rate. I like I said, I try to avoid the we priced ourselves 249 00:15:35.200 --> 00:15:39.799 competitively or also, I'm running a business and any you know, any other 250 00:15:39.840 --> 00:15:43.960 sub sub contractors out there. You're running your own small little entity, your 251 00:15:43.960 --> 00:15:48.919 business. You need to actually equate into the you know, into the equation 252 00:15:50.399 --> 00:15:54.960 an element of profit, whether a customer or a contractor degrees. There needs 253 00:15:54.000 --> 00:15:58.279 to be, you know, that element of I'm running my own ship here, 254 00:15:58.320 --> 00:16:02.080 like I said, you're liable, you're competential, go your van. 255 00:16:02.120 --> 00:16:06.120 You've got to pay all these expenses in the background when you do warrant you 256 00:16:06.159 --> 00:16:08.360 know, a decent day rate. But I try and avoid it. I 257 00:16:08.480 --> 00:16:14.159 try and base a lot of our work obviously on price work. Obviously in 258 00:16:14.200 --> 00:16:15.759 the back of your mind. You've got to keep in your mind these day 259 00:16:15.799 --> 00:16:21.399 work sort of rates to to work the figures out. You certainly do. 260 00:16:21.519 --> 00:16:26.600 And you're exactly like me. You're exactly like John Argyle, who is my 261 00:16:26.720 --> 00:16:30.279 previous contributor to this topic. And I'd like to ask you also, how 262 00:16:30.279 --> 00:16:33.799 do you typically figure out your costs? Okay, not not pouncing Pence, 263 00:16:33.879 --> 00:16:37.799 don't don't tell me exactly, but what you know, how do you figure 264 00:16:37.840 --> 00:16:40.200 out what you need to earn on a job? So let's say, how 265 00:16:40.200 --> 00:16:44.559 do you get how did you come to a price? I've taken the time 266 00:16:44.600 --> 00:16:48.480 to break down some of the obviously the business outgoing for a small business, 267 00:16:48.120 --> 00:16:52.200 so I've broken down some of the outgoing there as in the van lease, 268 00:16:52.320 --> 00:16:56.919 insurances, some of the tool depreciation, buying your tools. There's going to 269 00:16:56.919 --> 00:17:00.440 be an element to sort of be a business element in your cost I've included 270 00:17:00.519 --> 00:17:03.519 some of my personal outco into the moment because the cost of living is just 271 00:17:03.680 --> 00:17:08.279 insane, so you want to make sure they've you've sort of covered covered your 272 00:17:08.319 --> 00:17:12.160 ass. Really, yeah, they're working. So I've kind of in my 273 00:17:12.240 --> 00:17:17.480 own how I price it? I know where I need to earn a minimum 274 00:17:17.640 --> 00:17:21.319 per day. Then I'll know from my studies or the people I bring in 275 00:17:21.720 --> 00:17:25.920 what they need to be paid, or I'll give their ideas or canius this 276 00:17:26.160 --> 00:17:29.400 much for this room, or they'll give me ideas of costs. So if 277 00:17:29.400 --> 00:17:33.319 I'm just put based on my own personal just me doing a job, then 278 00:17:33.359 --> 00:17:36.720 it would be I'd work out how many hours I think it's going to take. 279 00:17:37.279 --> 00:17:41.440 I tend to add a couple more because obviously you know it would all 280 00:17:41.480 --> 00:17:47.000 you know, many variable everything. Yeah, somebody delivers to the wrong address 281 00:17:47.039 --> 00:17:51.039 and refuses to give you the delivery because I've had a million different scenarios, 282 00:17:51.039 --> 00:17:56.759 but delivered old candrels to the house next door and they've they've been taken to 283 00:17:56.839 --> 00:18:03.240 another depot and they won't give them too. Because cover a long story short, 284 00:18:03.680 --> 00:18:07.799 I'd work on my basic hourly rate, how many hours I think that 285 00:18:07.880 --> 00:18:11.519 job is going to take. I usually add a couple because you've got to 286 00:18:11.599 --> 00:18:14.039 run around from all the rest of it. Yeah, but now I do 287 00:18:14.119 --> 00:18:18.519 add an element of profit. There's a percentage of profit that I add to 288 00:18:18.640 --> 00:18:22.559 that job anyway, and it's a it's a decent profit because invariably stuff goes 289 00:18:22.599 --> 00:18:26.240 wrong costs long. But I don't want to be Penny Pinchion and come back 290 00:18:26.240 --> 00:18:30.359 to a customer every two minutes saying, or we put an extra three screws 291 00:18:30.400 --> 00:18:33.440 in there, and yeah, so I kind of cover the rather have it 292 00:18:33.519 --> 00:18:37.759 as they think it's a three week but it's not. You absorb a little 293 00:18:37.759 --> 00:18:41.480 bit, don't you. Yeah, exactly, Yeah, yeah, it's not 294 00:18:41.599 --> 00:18:45.319 priced to the to the bare minimum. I need a bit of fat on 295 00:18:45.359 --> 00:18:48.519 it and then that bad gets reduced. Yeah. No, I think I 296 00:18:48.559 --> 00:18:51.920 think anyone listening to this who's also doing the same sort of work that we're 297 00:18:51.960 --> 00:18:55.240 doing, you know, mainly the domestic market where you're having to cover off 298 00:18:55.319 --> 00:18:56.799 loads of variables. There's so many variables. It could be the weather, 299 00:18:56.839 --> 00:19:00.559 it could be that handra that turns up the wrong place you can't get hold 300 00:19:00.599 --> 00:19:03.559 of it, holding you up. And it could be, as you say, 301 00:19:03.720 --> 00:19:06.559 having to put more scursy. And we do have to absorb some of 302 00:19:06.559 --> 00:19:10.240 that, but experience tells you to factor that in. You mentioned the cost 303 00:19:10.279 --> 00:19:14.640 of living crisis. It is absolutely spirring. We've got interest rates if you're 304 00:19:14.640 --> 00:19:17.200 coming off, if you're lucky enough to have a mortgage in the property and 305 00:19:17.279 --> 00:19:19.599 you're coming off a fix. For example, they're doubling and tripling. The 306 00:19:19.640 --> 00:19:22.920 interest is doubling and trippling in some cases, and I know that the banks 307 00:19:22.920 --> 00:19:26.960 are trying to sort some sort of help out here and there, but take 308 00:19:26.039 --> 00:19:30.319 that. I know, fuels going down and materials are easing, but there's 309 00:19:30.400 --> 00:19:34.519 lots of other pressures. You know, there's food inflation and that is having 310 00:19:34.519 --> 00:19:38.680 a knocking effect. And how did you adjust or have you adjusted your prices 311 00:19:40.119 --> 00:19:44.920 currently and what are your thoughts on it? In all honesty, I with 312 00:19:45.000 --> 00:19:47.880 all this going on, when we're feeling the pence as well. You know, 313 00:19:47.920 --> 00:19:52.039 we work Spoke area and we're lucky with that. We work with some 314 00:19:52.880 --> 00:19:57.119 really wealthy clients which they're not sort of penny pension, but from my everyday 315 00:19:57.400 --> 00:20:02.279 sort of the price and I've had to up our rates, the carpets of 316 00:20:02.319 --> 00:20:06.799 the works and here's rates. Our subcontractors have become more expensive. So all 317 00:20:06.839 --> 00:20:08.960 these it's all to be factored in. At first, when it all started 318 00:20:10.000 --> 00:20:15.160 happening, I didn't I priced a load of work and I thought, no, 319 00:20:15.240 --> 00:20:18.839 I'll honor the price, and I ended up losing thousand, which is 320 00:20:18.920 --> 00:20:22.279 ridiculous. I know it was still because I didn't want to go back and 321 00:20:22.319 --> 00:20:25.000 say I'm really sorry, you know, missus Jones, or this is going 322 00:20:25.079 --> 00:20:27.640 to cost exam out more. Yeah, she wasn't really missus Jones, or 323 00:20:27.720 --> 00:20:37.519 she probably it was probably Welsh exactly. No, But I mean that that's 324 00:20:37.519 --> 00:20:41.440 the thing, and I think that it's happened to all of us where you 325 00:20:41.480 --> 00:20:44.039 have actually looked at the end of the job and realized, well, that 326 00:20:44.079 --> 00:20:48.599 price just wasn't enough because it took way longer, had loads of aggravation from 327 00:20:48.599 --> 00:20:51.839 the client, and it's and I think when you actually have to produce something 328 00:20:51.880 --> 00:20:53.839 and get to it across the finish line, it's even more painful, isn't 329 00:20:53.839 --> 00:21:00.119 it. Yeah, We've recently did a beautiful oak and glass staircase transformation and 330 00:21:00.240 --> 00:21:04.640 a job just took concident, just took much longer that we come across. 331 00:21:04.720 --> 00:21:10.720 Lots a little snares, little things, everything, just every single aspect seemed 332 00:21:10.799 --> 00:21:12.920 to take longer and be awkward. But when you're doing a server, you're 333 00:21:12.960 --> 00:21:18.839 kind of looking thro well, this looks normal and that piece everything took long. 334 00:21:18.880 --> 00:21:22.880 We've finished up with an amazing result and the customers are over the moon. 335 00:21:22.920 --> 00:21:26.960 But I was kind of inside thinking I've done all this, it looks 336 00:21:26.000 --> 00:21:30.000 absolutely beautiful, and I've just all covered my ass. I know, I 337 00:21:30.079 --> 00:21:33.559 know, I know, I know exactly what I mean. You know, 338 00:21:33.640 --> 00:21:36.799 no matter how experienced, how good you are, especially if you're you know, 339 00:21:36.839 --> 00:21:40.680 your standard is incredible. John's standards is incredible. I like to think 340 00:21:40.720 --> 00:21:44.799 mine is as well. And the problem there is we have such a conscience 341 00:21:45.039 --> 00:21:48.160 that we want everything to be as close to perfect as possible, even at 342 00:21:48.160 --> 00:21:52.200 our expense. You know what I mean exactly. Yeah, it's just I 343 00:21:52.200 --> 00:21:56.519 would rather not so much. I don't want to lose one in every job. 344 00:21:56.559 --> 00:21:59.920 But if it comes now and again where where you just don't make any 345 00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:02.359 and you know, the misses. His moment's saying, oh my god, 346 00:22:02.359 --> 00:22:06.200 you're still on that job. You know, I would rather be right than 347 00:22:06.359 --> 00:22:11.039 compromise the quality and walk away. It's just a shame that the every expense 348 00:22:11.079 --> 00:22:15.920 by facing it's just ridiculous. I know, I know. So finishing up 349 00:22:15.039 --> 00:22:21.960 any tips for carpenters who think they're not currently charging enough money, and you've 350 00:22:21.960 --> 00:22:25.839 got to look at you know how you are my life, haven't you? 351 00:22:25.960 --> 00:22:29.559 If you're paying the bills and you're keeping your head above water. But also 352 00:22:29.599 --> 00:22:33.160 if you're also doing a really good job. It's no good being slap dash 353 00:22:33.319 --> 00:22:37.559 and cutting corners and putting out rough work and people constantly complain, and then 354 00:22:37.880 --> 00:22:41.200 you know you're going to you're gonna feel the pinch. But if you're one 355 00:22:41.200 --> 00:22:42.559 of the trades and out there to do care, you do take a lot 356 00:22:42.599 --> 00:22:47.400 of pride in your work. If you're still feeling that I'm not even you 357 00:22:47.440 --> 00:22:49.240 know, barely keeping your head above water, you need to put your prices 358 00:22:49.279 --> 00:22:55.039 up and you'll be surprised that the customers you will gay will swallow it. 359 00:22:55.319 --> 00:22:56.480 Yeah, we've got a lot of people who will wait for us, and 360 00:22:56.519 --> 00:23:02.319 we'll pay you know, good money for work that we're doing. But you've 361 00:23:02.359 --> 00:23:04.680 just got to be confident in yourself and confidence in your price. And and 362 00:23:04.720 --> 00:23:08.279 if I've always found in the past, you know, as one door closed 363 00:23:08.319 --> 00:23:11.880 as another one does open, oh god, I don't don't go in too 364 00:23:11.920 --> 00:23:15.880 low and don't compromise. Yeah, you will find something else. I think 365 00:23:15.880 --> 00:23:22.799 that's fabulous advice. It's remaining strong, okay, and also justifying why you're 366 00:23:22.880 --> 00:23:29.119 charging a little bit more. The Carpentry Show on fixed radio. This is 367 00:23:29.119 --> 00:23:32.759 the Carpentry show with Festal. I'm Robin Clevitt, and as I said at 368 00:23:32.799 --> 00:23:36.160 the start of the show, I'm always been asked by carpenters, how do 369 00:23:36.240 --> 00:23:41.960 I know I'm charging enough? Well, I mean it is boiling back to 370 00:23:41.079 --> 00:23:45.480 what both of my guests have said is it depends on your abilities. It 371 00:23:45.559 --> 00:23:49.400 depends how far you'll travel, It depends how much time you've got to devote 372 00:23:49.400 --> 00:23:52.680 to the job, whether it's how many hours in the day, or you 373 00:23:52.720 --> 00:23:56.160 know you need to set your stall out. You need to say I've got 374 00:23:56.200 --> 00:24:00.480 my own tools, I've got my own transport. I am confident and competent 375 00:24:00.519 --> 00:24:04.839 about reading a drawing, setting a job out, actually cutting it and fixing 376 00:24:04.880 --> 00:24:08.359 it. If you know that you're at that point where you can you know 377 00:24:08.400 --> 00:24:11.079 you can do all those things, then I think that you should be pitching 378 00:24:11.599 --> 00:24:15.680 at the rate. So we've talked today about the rates, you know, 379 00:24:15.799 --> 00:24:18.559 sort of two hundred up to two hundred and fifty pounds a day, and 380 00:24:18.599 --> 00:24:22.400 I think that they're sort of bang on what the industry is sort of dictating 381 00:24:22.400 --> 00:24:26.039 at the moment. And I know that there are some chippies on more money 382 00:24:26.079 --> 00:24:30.200 than that. All they are is the fact that they've actually managed to get 383 00:24:30.240 --> 00:24:33.880 just beyond the point where we're talking about now, and they've now built themselves 384 00:24:34.680 --> 00:24:38.599 an area, a list of clients, like John sort of ten clients that 385 00:24:38.640 --> 00:24:44.400 he rotates around over the years, or Sean saying, you know, he's 386 00:24:44.400 --> 00:24:48.160 got some established clients that he works with, and that's when you can start 387 00:24:48.279 --> 00:24:52.759 factoring a little bit more money because they're buying your sort of skills, your 388 00:24:52.799 --> 00:24:57.039 knowledge, your contacts, your sort of experience effectively. So anyway, so 389 00:24:57.200 --> 00:25:00.400 yes, we're saying, yeah, the cost of living, Christ is this 390 00:25:00.599 --> 00:25:03.880 up your money? What if other carpenters are charging less and you're being undercut, 391 00:25:03.880 --> 00:25:08.119 because that will happen, of course, because let's be honest, we're 392 00:25:08.160 --> 00:25:12.519 all, you know, at different stages in our lives. If I was 393 00:25:12.559 --> 00:25:15.279 asked to price the job, and you're asked to price the same job, 394 00:25:15.440 --> 00:25:18.519 and you're in the job, you're into the trade for five years. I've 395 00:25:18.559 --> 00:25:22.599 been in it thirty six years, we might be both ability wise still on 396 00:25:22.799 --> 00:25:26.480 part because you can learn a lot in five years and become absolutely brilliant. 397 00:25:26.519 --> 00:25:30.640 Just as I've met a lot of carpenters who are only five years in and 398 00:25:30.680 --> 00:25:36.440 they're absolutely awesome, but in life terms, I probably am a little bit 399 00:25:36.480 --> 00:25:41.160 more sort of relaxed, because I'm lucky enough to have managed to have bought 400 00:25:41.200 --> 00:25:44.559 a house in my life. And you know, as you get older, 401 00:25:44.880 --> 00:25:48.720 your costs do start to decrease, but in fact they're meant to. Okay, 402 00:25:48.759 --> 00:25:51.559 they don't often, but they're meant to. I think you just lived 403 00:25:51.559 --> 00:25:53.039 to your means, or you stretch your means, or your means get a 404 00:25:53.039 --> 00:25:57.599 bit more extravagant. Okay. But so what I'm saying is, yes, 405 00:25:59.119 --> 00:26:03.160 different people at different times in their lives will have different needs. You might 406 00:26:03.200 --> 00:26:06.039 be at the point where you're thinking of getting married. You've just saved for 407 00:26:06.079 --> 00:26:11.119 a deposit for a house, and your partner now fiance, is saying, 408 00:26:11.160 --> 00:26:12.119 oh, we're going to get married next year, and you're thinking, hold 409 00:26:12.119 --> 00:26:15.279 on a minute, we've only just bought the house. We've got to do 410 00:26:15.359 --> 00:26:17.640 the house up. Now we're talking about getting married. In the end, 411 00:26:17.640 --> 00:26:19.680 you put yourself under pressure. That's when you start thinking, I need to 412 00:26:19.759 --> 00:26:23.240 charge more money. So, yes, it is so difficult and there's so 413 00:26:23.319 --> 00:26:27.880 many variables, and if someone is undercutting you, try to move away from 414 00:26:27.920 --> 00:26:33.160 that type of work, if you like, try to sort of find that 415 00:26:33.279 --> 00:26:37.119 niche find that client that is absolutely perfect for you, or that sort of 416 00:26:37.160 --> 00:26:41.440 sector that you can earn a little bit more money in. Okay, and 417 00:26:41.440 --> 00:26:45.160 with inflation, for example, the cost of something in a supermarket could increase 418 00:26:45.200 --> 00:26:48.680 free times over the course of a year. So how often should we be 419 00:26:48.720 --> 00:26:53.519 putting up our prices? Again, that boils down to personal situation at the 420 00:26:53.599 --> 00:26:56.839 time. Yes, we've got a benchmark in the industry. We've talked around 421 00:26:56.839 --> 00:27:00.279 two two hundred and fifty. Maybe if you're you can get three hundred a 422 00:27:00.359 --> 00:27:03.920 day, providing you're doing enough work for it, because people just won't pay 423 00:27:03.960 --> 00:27:08.119 if we're not delivering enough work. How often, Well, I think that 424 00:27:08.160 --> 00:27:12.480 we should just make sure we watch our bottom lines. We make sure that 425 00:27:12.519 --> 00:27:18.079 our own sort of prices aren't running away with us. We're not paying too 426 00:27:18.119 --> 00:27:22.079 much for our materials. Or if you're pricing a job and it's a four 427 00:27:22.119 --> 00:27:26.759 month job, just sort of hedge against the materials, maybe say to decline, 428 00:27:26.200 --> 00:27:30.240 this is the labor and I'm prepared to stand by this. This is 429 00:27:30.279 --> 00:27:33.720 an estimate for the materials. Here's the list, here's what I'm paying from 430 00:27:33.759 --> 00:27:36.599 now. But in four months, when they get to the end of the 431 00:27:36.680 --> 00:27:38.680 job. If the doors have gone up by double, I need to pass 432 00:27:38.720 --> 00:27:44.599 that onto you. And I think that most clients absolutely respect and understand that. 433 00:27:44.720 --> 00:27:47.839 They might say, is it likely you say, by the doors now 434 00:27:48.240 --> 00:27:51.839 at this price you store them and look after them. There's a way around 435 00:27:51.880 --> 00:27:55.319 that. So yeah, there's so many things about it. I do think 436 00:27:55.319 --> 00:27:56.519 that this topic. Thanks for asking, by the way, if it has 437 00:27:56.559 --> 00:28:03.480 been across the socials or indeed sending your text messages into Fix here. It 438 00:28:03.680 --> 00:28:07.759 is a topic that we are always talking about. It's why we go to 439 00:28:07.880 --> 00:28:12.200 work. Ultimately, it's what we need to do to survive and have a 440 00:28:12.359 --> 00:28:23.079 reasonably normal existence. The Carpentry Show Fixed Radio. So that's it for today's 441 00:28:23.079 --> 00:28:27.440 Carpentry Show, where I've talked about how you can ensure you're kind of charging 442 00:28:27.559 --> 00:28:30.960 enough for what you do. Okay, And yes, I will say, 443 00:28:30.960 --> 00:28:36.400 there's so many variables. And if you're employed, yes, it doesn't probably 444 00:28:36.440 --> 00:28:38.920 apply to you unless you know you've got a review coming up with your sort 445 00:28:38.920 --> 00:28:41.480 of employer and they say, you know how you're feeling, say, well, 446 00:28:41.480 --> 00:28:45.079 it's getting a bit tight. They'd know that anyway, they'd know if 447 00:28:45.119 --> 00:28:49.039 money is getting tight, because sometimes our headsdrop sometimes we just feel down because 448 00:28:49.079 --> 00:28:52.839 we're just not making enough to cover our bills. Maybe we're covering our bills, 449 00:28:52.839 --> 00:28:56.279 but we're not having any fun. We're not going out for restaurant meals 450 00:28:56.279 --> 00:28:59.839 and all the sort of things. Especially if you're young, you do want 451 00:28:59.839 --> 00:29:03.039 to have a bit of a life. I know that you career is important, 452 00:29:03.079 --> 00:29:04.400 but yeah, it's easy, come, easy go. I mean, 453 00:29:04.440 --> 00:29:08.319 what kind of money should you be making five years in, ten years, 454 00:29:08.319 --> 00:29:14.359 in fifteen years, twenty years in. I mean it's a really difficult one 455 00:29:14.440 --> 00:29:18.200 that let's take the scenario I mentioned this. I'm fifty three. I've been 456 00:29:18.240 --> 00:29:22.599 in it a long time. So I also have got, like John, 457 00:29:22.880 --> 00:29:26.000 a core clientele that I know are going to call me. They're going to 458 00:29:26.079 --> 00:29:30.039 call me this year, maybe next year as well. And I sort of 459 00:29:30.039 --> 00:29:34.279 have this comfort that I haven't got the insecurity of having to chase the work. 460 00:29:34.440 --> 00:29:38.519 Okay, I have had I've had some really hard times during my career 461 00:29:38.519 --> 00:29:41.480 where I've had a job and all of a sudden, the firm I was 462 00:29:41.519 --> 00:29:45.880 working for has gone under. Not only did they go under, they didn't 463 00:29:45.880 --> 00:29:51.119 pay my last three weeks money, and that puts you behind and straight away 464 00:29:51.559 --> 00:29:55.240 you're trying to find work, you have an overdraft, you've got to pay 465 00:29:55.279 --> 00:29:57.480 your bills, you don't know what to do, and then you get under 466 00:29:57.559 --> 00:30:02.279 a lot of pressure. So even whether you are established, you're in my 467 00:30:02.400 --> 00:30:07.000 position, those things and still catch you out. I think the golden rule 468 00:30:07.519 --> 00:30:11.319 is make sure you know who's paying you. I always say this, who's 469 00:30:11.359 --> 00:30:15.000 paying you and when they're going to pay you. Don't work for some person 470 00:30:15.039 --> 00:30:18.079 who's going to go, Oh, by the way, finish your job, 471 00:30:18.160 --> 00:30:21.319 sending your invoice and we'll sort out the payment. You need to know who 472 00:30:21.440 --> 00:30:25.039 is paying you for that, who is where that money is going from, 473 00:30:25.079 --> 00:30:27.480 and that you're going to get it when you need it. Okay. Anyway, 474 00:30:27.519 --> 00:30:30.920 that's that's about it for today's Carpentry Show. You can hear it again 475 00:30:32.000 --> 00:30:36.200 from ten pm right here on Fixed Radio with more great music. This and 476 00:30:36.400 --> 00:30:40.839 all of our previous shows are available from wherever you get your podcast online. 477 00:30:41.160 --> 00:30:45.920 Make sure you subscribe, leave a review so we can continue bringing the best 478 00:30:45.200 --> 00:30:49.240 this industry has to offer. You can also subscribe to the newsletter for the 479 00:30:49.240 --> 00:30:55.640 show okay, where you get access to new competitions and exclusive content. Sign 480 00:30:55.720 --> 00:31:00.279 up for that at Fixed Radio dot co dot UK and you'll also be entered 481 00:31:00.319 --> 00:31:04.440 into a draw to win a Makita site Radio Let's end with Rihanna Only Girl, 482 00:31:04.799 --> 00:31:06.559 have a great week.