Hello, and welcome to Open Mind UFO Radio. I am your host,
Alejandro Rojas, and I have with me Jason McClellan. I am with you,
yes, and uh, first, I want to tell you guys about
this guest that I have have on for today. He's maybe the craziest goofiest
guests I've ever had, and his name is Jason McClellan. Wa wah well.
And the thing is that I can't really trick people because when they go
to look at the show, they see Jason McClellan, and I'm over here
trying to pull them, and they're already gonna know. And maybe there'll be
some podcast listeners who didn't look at the name of the show and I'll have
trick them. You might trick a few people. Nice try a hundred.
Yeah, But any who before and what we're going to talk with Jason batt
is Jason. If you're not aware, it was on the Joe Rogan Questions
Everything show recently, and there was a lot of stuff that has gone over
and that show that I thought would be really important to talk about. So
we'll talk about that show piece by piece and about Jason's experience on the show,
which is interesting too, but that will play into a lot of the
latest thing going on in this field. And we'll also to talk somewhat about
some of the recent media dealings with UFOs, because UFOs seem to be in
the media a lot more and they don't always get things right, so we'll
talk about some of that also coming up. This is gonna be great,
people, You're gonna love it. I can't wait. But before we do
that, of course, we like to talk about a news story from the
week. And Jason, what is this story you would like to talk about?
Well, Sir, I'm going to talk about something that is right along
the lines of something you just mentioned, and that is problems with the media
and getting things wrong good at times. But this is a story I know
we've talked about more than once on the show, and that's about these UFO
sightings in India that continue to happen, actually, but there seemed to be
a big wave of them back into twenty twelve, and these were seen by
members of the Indian Army and the Indo Tibetan Border Police Force and they're seen
along the Indian's border with China, and hundreds of these UFOs were seen over
a six month period, and these things have been investigated since then, and
there have just been so many reports that have continued to come out after the
initial report of these sightings, and we've heard media outlets dismiss them, saying
that astronomers found out that these UFOs were simply Jupiter and Venus. Then we've
had reports saying that the country's Defense minister denies there wherever ufo reports to begin
with. And then we have reports that astronomers from the Indian Astronomical Observatory observed
these UFOs themselves and studied the phenomenon for a while and ruled out celestial objects
completely, ruling out meteors and planets as a possibility to explain these UFOs.
So we're hearing things that conflict with each other and going all over the place.
But so far, I think the worst defender at reporting this was the
Inquisitor. Back on Sunday, August eighteenth, they published a story about this
about these sightings, but the title of it was UFOs over the Taj Mahal
next Indian Army reports sightings and creating the impression that the Indian Army saw UFOs
over the Taj Mahall when that wasn't the case. There's a video showing object
that looks like it could be over the taj Mahal. It has nothing to
do with the sightings by the Indian Army and that particular article doesn't mention anything
about the UFO video over the taj Mahal, but they threw that in there
with the headline, and that caused MSN write a story that sort of lump
them these two non related things together, and it just creates a lot of
confusion. And that's a problem we see a lot with these UFO stories.
I mean, they're they're confusing and uh, you know, problematic in themselves,
being that we don't have much information to go on with a lot of
these stories. But then you get in misreporting or just lack of research and
things like that. It really causes a lot of problems with these sightings and
does does a disservice, I think, to a lot of the more credible
ones that deserve some more investigation. Yeah, and it's right. So it's
kind of like the that telephone thing where you know, you tell someone a
message and then they tell someone and how the message gets distorted and yeah,
so it turned into the Indian Army saw UFO over the taiz Maha, which
is completely wrong. But they don't do their research to even read the story.
It's like they read the headline and then they write a story about it.
It's it's kind of ridiculous when big media like that gets it so wrong,
and when you've had so many different things reported, you know, we
have no idea what the truth is because you know, we're certainly not in
India. We're relying on other media. Oh, let's to let us know
what's going on. But when those media, oh let's are reporting conflicting things,
who knows what's going on. Yeah, yeah, it's well, and
we talked about it even with the Area fifty one. How I absolutely first
did it that said nothing about UFOs when there's a full chapter on UFOs,
and so the story everywhere was nothing about UFOs when there certainly was information about
UFOs. So yeah, it's a big problem, and I don't think it's
going away anytime soon. Yeah, they just for some reason. Figure.
I mean a lot of the bigger ones will actually do. You can see
in some of the reports, like I saw an ABC one, a full
on nightly news where you can tell they read the document, they were very
well versed with what was in there. But even yeah, some of the
the are bigger media sources, they figure they just don't have to do the
research when it comes to this topic for some reason. Sure, and I
don't get that, but well, I've said it before, but I'll say
it again. This is a particular case that I'm very much interested in.
I love seeing things that develop with it. To be honest, I thought
the first time we heard about this story, I thought that would be the
last we ever heard of it. And you know, but it keeps coming
up, and I'm glad we're hearing more things. I hope we find out
what's really going on, because this is one of the more fascinating cases to
me that's ongoing right now. And you know, astronomers and military people seeing
these with their own eyes, and just the different stories coming out about it,
they are fascinating too. Again, we don't know whether or not they're
accurate in the reporting, but there have even been you know, initially it
was thought that these could be Chinese lanterns because they were seen in great numbers
and raising over the China border. But those those were ruled out, and
they thought they could be drones, and they mostly ruled that out too.
But one of the reports I read, and again who knows if this is
accurate, but China's military, you know, of course they wouldn't admit to
India if they had drones going off across the border. But they in fact
said, we don't know what they are if you see them shoot them down.
So you know, it's an interesting story. It keeps coming and we
keep hearing new angles about it and new explanations. So we'll see where it
goes, if it goes anywhere, if it's just gonna keep going around and
round with misreporting. Do you know what, speaking of Area fifty one and
these being possible, suggested that they're Chinese lanterns. Chinese lanterns were developed in
China, so maybe this is the next generation, highly advanced, super tech
Chinese lantern You think these are these are super advanced Chinese lanterns. Yeah,
I could be Chinese lanterns, Yeah, exactly, And secret development of the
next generation Chinese lanterns that zip around always a possibility. You can make them
spell out the name of the groom and the bride, you know, around
who knows, huh, you're creative, my friend. I was thinking of,
you know, the story I'm going to do. I was kind of
thinking of because there wasn't a whole lot of news last week of the NASA
UFO thing. But it's kind of stupid because NASA said, oh, we
saw ufo, but we know what it is. It's like it just used
the term UFO to promote this story's face junk, which is kind of frustrating.
But I guess I'll talk about Bob Lazar because it was kind of interesting
in that one of the stories with Area fifty one, they actually got an
interview with Bob LA's arm. Yeah, and I just guess it's not a
whole bunch of news. He didn't really say anything much except for, uh,
I knew that Area fifty one there and they really need to check out
S four. But I think the interesting part is just we finally hear from
Bob Lazarei because he's been avoiding talking about UFOs, but he's still sticking to
his story. And he told NBC News that, you know, he worked
on these back engineered UFOs at S four near Area fifty one, and all
these years later he's still sticking to a story. Yeah, that was interesting
to hear. I'm glad they did get a statement from him. As we
mentioned, we tried to get a statement from him, and he wants nothing
to do with the whole UFO arena, so he certainly avoided us. But
because the story was about Area fifty one, his statement is pretty interesting to
hear. Yeah, and you know, given what he told us, adds
to it too, and that he says, you know, he's got this
scientific company where he provides science equipment, and that he has government contracts,
right and he yet he's still you know, sticking to his story of back
engineering alien craft. So really, I think that's kind of interesting. I
agree with you. So that's what I had to say about that. Thank
you for saying it. It needed to be said. But of course,
Jason and Moore wehen go over all of the news of the week on Spacing
Out, which you can find on our YouTube channel. It's my favorite show,
is it? It's a pretty good one. I do like it.
It's okay, but I'm paid to say it's my favorite show. Yeah.
Moving on, let's get to our guests for the week. This gentleman works
for Open Minds magazine. He also works on the website. He also is
an animal lover and a vegetarian and has an interesting haircut which was featured on
Joe Rogan help me welcome my good buddy Jason McClellan. Yay, hear the
crowd of people. Home down people, So let's talk about the Joe Rogan
Experience. And maybe you can first tell people because a lot of people don't
know who Joe Rogan is, and you know, what is this show that
he's doing. Well, Joe Rogan is as known as the stand up comedian.
He's got a fairly popular podcast, Joe Rogan Experience. He's a comedian,
he was a host of Fear Factor. He's involved in MMA fighting.
I don't know to what extent, but yeah, he does a lot of
things. And now he's doing a show on sci Fi I called Joe Rogan
Questions Everything, where he goes out and probes interesting and mysterious things. I
think they started out with Bigfoot and they've explored whether modification and transhumanism and all
sorts of interesting topics. Now, when you went and shot it was before
the show had started, had erect and it sounds like I mean that Joe
Rogan is genuinely interested in the paranormal. He absolutely is. I'll say that
I think I think Joe's a great guy, and he is hugely into the
unknown and things that are mysterious. So when we talked, I could definitely
sense his genuine passion for finding out about this stuff. And he's very much
into the subject of extraterrestrials and UFOs, So his his interest and purpose in
searching for answers was genuine. And if you saw the show, if not
what he did, he people were kind of bummed out right from the begin
in that he right off the bat was saying he's being funny. I mean,
it's a comedy show essentially, it's a lighthearted entertainment show, and he's
a comedian. You go back to it knowing that, right which, and
I thought he was really funny actually, but he started us by saying that
the evidence that he's seen is horse manure and showed it. It's like a
cartoon of horse manure, I think, or not an actual picture of it.
And his point is I want evidence. I want to go talk to
these UFO people and I want them to show me evidence, which I personally.
And I know people might get frustrated by at least what level of evidence
he is willing to accept, but I appreciated that. I mean, in
that let's go look for the good stuff, not just the stuff that people
excited about but really doesn't prove anything. Yeah, you know, I have
to agree with him. You know, there there's you and I talk about
this all the time. There's lots of lots of good stuff out there and
plenty that contributes to our search, but how much of it is concrete proof?
You know, that's that's more difficult to find, and that was his
quest. You know, there's lots of photos and videos and stories from this
person or stories from this person who heard it from that person, but he
wanted concrete proof. You know, you're not going to go out and find
a UFO in somebody's garage. I mean he probably not, probably, but
it's a possibility, sure, But that's what he was looking for. And
his point was, you know it's not there, so what do we have,
right, So let's go down And when I analyzed kind of some of
what he looked at, because I think that his approach was great and that
and he was able to talk to a few people from that perspective and try
to pull out, you know, what is proof versus evidence, and what
his idea of evidence was versus what other people's idea of evidence is, which
I think is such an important topic. So first he battled with Bill Burns,
and I call it a because he really got kind of I don't know
if i'd say heated, because he was mostly joking around, but he was
certainly kind of in burns face, talent, Are you forgetting me? What
are you talking about? You know, he was getting all excited at but
in a negative way. I guess about what Bill Burns was saying, because
Bill Burns was trying to say, and this is kind of funny. Bill
Burns was trying to say that there is evidence, and Joe Rogan said,
well, I want something I can touch, and Bill Burns said pictures.
And Joe Rogan says, why I can't touch that? And Bill Burns said,
you can touch it with your eyes. I wouldn't recommend it. I
don't know if I buy that so much. Some of these photos, especially
the ones we have in r archives, are pretty old and have had have
been handled by lots of people. I wouldn't go touching those to your eyeballs.
Yeah, so I'm not sure. I mean Bill Burns's idea that this
is I guess he was maybe trying to say it's physical evidence. But of
course Joe Rogan was talking about going and touching the UFO, right. It
brings up the issue of photo evidence though, and Rogan wasn't really willing to
go there. Yeah, that that seems to you. I mean, I'm
sure he would be happy to see some good UFO photos and or videos,
but that wasn't the purpose of his search. You know, he's seen that
before. He was looking for more. And I've got to say, I
mean, we see stuff all the time. We get sent to photos every
day. We've got thousands of photos here. I mean we look at hundreds,
if not thousands of photos and videos every year. So we see a
lot. And I love photo and video evidence. But at the same time
I understand and take it for what it's worth. You know, it can
be contributing evidence to a case, it can support something, but is it
proof. No, it certainly is not proof. And it has to be
understood that this is a photo or video and anything, absolutely anything can be
created on photo or video I mean, technology is amazing, and no,
it doesn't take millions of dollars. You know, high school kids can create
amazing things with photoshop and video editing software. Affects. Tools are incredible and
make it easier and easier every day to create whatever you want. So you
have to understand it in that context. But you know it can't contribute to
a case. I agree, but I do want to at least argue with
Bill Burns's point a little bit. Not much. I'm not touching anything with
my eyeball, but like true, I think that unfortunately has become where photoggraphic
evidence is not acceptable. It's not something that gets people excited, doesn't prove
anything to people. People kind of ignore it and don't pay attention to it.
These days, of course, people in the UFO field pay attention to
it, but not outside so much, which is unfortunate. And then when
it comes to for instance, I believe and I think that we've got we're
lucky enough to have, you know, the best Billy Meyer pictures. This
is an exact sample of pre photoshop, but these are pretty good and I'm
convincder fakes. But although there are some telltale signs in these pictures that demonstrate
that. However, you know, we've got this incredible photo collection that we
got from a guy who was in the Air Force and researched this for decades
with Wendell Stevens, and some of those pictures I think are really interesting.
And of course in our magazine we put at least six UFO photographs in there
and we tell tell you about them, and the vast majority turned out to
be misidentifications sometimes hoaxes, but there are a small minority that are really really
interesting, and I think it would be cool for any of these shows,
including like Rogans, to examine some of these really good photos, even like
some of them in are archives that we can explain from the fifties and the
sixties and the seventies, to try to help us figure out this is a
pretty cool photo. What you what is this? You know, because a
lot of these I'm not so sure could be hoaxed. What do you think?
Well, you know, I think anything is possible. People are creative.
But I'm with you, man, Some of those older photos are my
favorites, and we do have some pretty mysterious ones. And I've seen a
lot of older photos that you know, are bewildering. So yeah, I
do love those. And you know, I said, you know, you've
got to take photos and video evidence for what they're worth anymore, It's still
preferred, you know, if there's a sighting submitted with with just written testimony
or a citing submitted written testimony plus photo or video, I'll take that any
tith week. You know, that's what we want, and that helps add
a visual to it, helps you understand what the person is describing better.
And you know, sometimes those things are just completely bizarre looking, so they
add to the interest of the case. Yeah, that's another hard part.
You bring up. A good point is that the photo the witness testimony,
because these days, really once you get to higher levels of scrutiny, the
witness testimony is thrown out, even though it can be very important, especially
when you have multiple credible witnesses reporting seeing what is in the photograph. And
I think that's vital. For instance, I got a photo in yesterday from
someone and it looks interesting, but in the end, it's the light in
the sky. The witness says, you know, this light did X,
Y and Z, and maybe it did. You can't tell that from the
photo. And if it did, it could be a genuine mystery, but
unfortunately the photo isn't enough. The witness testimony leads credence, and this would
come up when I did move on investigations to the sighting. So it's a
good sighting, right, but still not necessarily that convincing to like a skeptic
or someone you might be really trying to prove something too. And so it
comes back to kind of what you had talked about. I mean, it's
the photo can be really interesting, it can demonstrate something, but I do
believe, and I don't think it's a problem to have, you know,
the old Carl Sagan thing, which is what we're stuck in, which is
extraordinary claims for our extraordinary evidence, and so that doesn't meet that extraordinary bar.
Right, that's the unfortunate position that we're in. I mean, the
bar is set really high, and to convince anybody beyond the shadow of a
doubt, there has to be, you know, pretty solid evidence. And
even with solid evidence, it's not going to necessarily quits a proof for many
people. Yeah, yeah, And I mean it would have been nice if
Bill Burns would have made some of these arguments, although he didn't. Although
he may have, and they just didn't use it for the show because it's
not that funny. Like, we've been talking about this for a while and
it hasn't been that funny. I think it's interesting, but not funny,
and their point was being funny. So I'll take it. I'll try I'll
try to be more funny along. No, that's okay, we're being serious,
which was important for that topic. Right, this is a serious show.
But the Joe Rogan Show is all about funny funny, so if it's
not funny, it's not making the show. So yeah, So that was
interesting with the Bill Burns point, And I don't know, Bill Burns kept
talking about anecdotal stuff and this became an ongoing thing in the show, and
I really think Joe Rogan makes a really good point. And maybe someone pointed
this out to him too. I don't know if you had the opportunity too,
that he's right that a lot of this is anecdotal. Even if some
of the people are very credible, it's still very anecdotal. Right. Yeah,
we definitely talked about them, and he you know that it's a point
that he you could tell because that's the direction of the show. Went he
agrees with, but he's also frustrated by it, you know, as we
all are. You know, I wish that weren't the case, but it
is, and it's what we've got to work with. Yeah. So,
so it would have been nice, and it's an important thing, but it
would have been kind of cool if they would have taken some really cool photographs,
a couple of real good wins, and taken a look at him.
And I think more shows need to do that, because there's a lot of
really good photos out there, and even let's say the mcmillonville photos which were
examined in the Condon Report and the condent scientist said was not a hoax.
It's a real object in the sky. Even those they're mentioned in a lot
of these shows, but not thoroughly examined where people understand that aspect of it.
So, and that's television, that's entertainment. You know, there's limited
time, limited budgets. Yeah, but these shows that are about UFOs can
dedicate even an episode to that. I mean they can, They've got time,
they just don't do it. That's true much of the time. Yes,
Yeah, there's there's no excuse, Jason, none. So that was
a Bill Burns portion and then of course it did get funny and that they
argued back and forth. But did you have anything more to say about the
Bill Burns section of the show. No, I don't think so, So
next, I think next with Darryl Simms, right, probably, Yeah,
we'll talk about that anyway, because this is another important one. This is
abductions and implants. And it was kind of cool because Darryl Simms told his
story. They kind of made jokes while they're a talent the story, but
he brought out these implants that he has that he's been able to receive.
And this is what gets me is that which was cool about the Rogan show
is a they had one of them analyzed, right, which is very cool.
But this is what frustrates me with the people who have these implants.
Why haven't you done this already? Why if it was me and I had
a case like this where I thought it was a solid case and I got
this piece of material, my number one focus, my number one job would
be to get this piece of material analyzed. Yeah, I'm with you.
So why is this the first time he's finding out this information from Joe Rogan?
Why hasn't he done this before? That's kind of frustrating. I agree,
I was wondering the same thing because he brought a whole box full of
stuff. I wonder if any of us been tested, and I wonder why
they selected the one they did. But yeah, it was cool and unexpected
that the show actually did test so and what they found was interesting that this
thing was gold and silver? Was it? These little tiny little beads that
came from this girl, a young girl who said she had an experience and
these metals came fround of her nose and they're really tiny beads and they analyzed
them and they were gold and silver? Weren't they? I think they were?
But yeah, it was interesting because the scientists doing the testing found it
interesting. So that's what now needs to be done some more. I mean,
obviously some people might not know, and well they probably wouldn't know,
except I think we did include that in our story. But for instance,
Roger Lear is the most well known to have these implants, and he's had
some of them analyzed and he's had What happens, and we've talked about this
before, is that you go to a lab, you have them do the
work to analyze it. Typically, they'll give you the data, the raw
data, and then you need to have that translated. You can have someone
at the lab do it, or you could have someone else do it,
but you've got the raw data. Roger Lear has had his data analyzed by
one individual who's a lab tech. However, we sent that exact same data
to Kimbler, who is the guy in Roswell, New Mexico, who teaches
geology and at the New Mexico Military Institute, and he looked at it and
he disagreed with the translation that Lear had, and his translation was much more
mundane, not necessarily meaning that it isn't something unusual, just that the data
retrieved thus far is not substantial evidence towards it being something unusual. So there
you have the issue, and the example being that you know, here again,
take that data to a credible source, because really you have now we
have a teacher at a military institute, you have this lab tech, but
we don't have an analysis by you know, someone who is an established expert.
Yet, Let's do this, you know, that's the most important thing.
Let's take this data to an established expert and have them tell us next,
right, and you know that's that's just good science. You know,
it might not be the easiest route to go, but it's what we have
to do to make sure the science is good. There has to be peer
review on these studies. Not all scientists are going to agree, but the
testing needs to be reproduced by other labs. And I'm sorry, but these
this testing needs to be done by people who are unbiased, who don't have
an agenda, who aren't tied to one side or the other. They're just
looking to see what the data shows. Yeah, I mean people will ask
a lot of times I get that question. Well, a lot of people
will ask, you know, what about Ler? What about his implants?
And it's really interesting stuff and it's great, but the next step has not
been taken yet. I mean, you've got data, but we don't have
credible analysis yet. That needs to be done and it can be done,
and that's I hope what does get done. Like you said, that's good
science, and but that's where we're stuck right now. And a lot of
people don't understand that, and they're like, well, he did it an
analysis, didn't you know that? Yeah? I do know that. In
fact, I know the details of the of each step and we have our
own analysis, so but people don't understand you need you know, just like
it when it comes to sightings, you need credible experts, right. So
that's the next step with the implants. Hopefully that gets done because it's one
area where there could be some really startling physical evidence that is just sitting and
waiting there to be discovered, right, and one of the best areas that
could could potentially have physical evidence. So it's worthy of taking the necessary steps
to get that tested and tested properly. And I wonder why it doesn't get
done sometimes. I wonder sometimes well, and I don't mean to be accusing
anybody of anything, but sometimes it seems like people don't get evidence analyzed because
they're afraid of the results. Sure, I think that's definitely valid, and
I don't know if this is the case, and I don't believe it to
be the case actually, But even some people, at least when it comes
to the implants, but in some cases, they don't want their gravy train
to end, right, And that's kind of unfortunate. And that's another thing
that comes into all of this. It's all these personality issues that come into
play. YEP, and you are dealing with human nature. That's the doctor
that comes in and you know it's difficult to deal with. So yeah,
I think you're right that does come into play sometimes, not all the time,
but that's definitely something that has to be dealt with. So next is
mister Stephen Bassett. So and you know, I got to say, of
course we had our criticisms, and I'm sure we'll kind of mention that here
a little bit of the way Bassett maybe goes around some of his things,
but of course we're passionate about the subject. Everybody in the feels that they
could, you know, do things a little differently. But I got to
say, when watching the show where they put in because they did cover Stephen
Bassett and the Citizen's Hearing, and they had clips from the citizens hearing,
and those clips are really invaluable. I mean they're really important and convincing,
and it made me really appreciate I think what Bassett had done a little more.
Yeah, definitely, And kudos to Joe Rogan and the show for choosing
the clips they did and showing the important stuff. So you know, I
think they saw the value in that too. For the show and looking at
that is some pretty good evidence. Well, and their point was, I
mean, in the end, and he has another good point that it's all
anecdotal. Sure it is, it is all anecdotal. But like he said,
if I had sat there for six days listening to this stuff, I
probably would have been convinced too. But in the end, it's all anecdotal,
right, Yeah, he realized that. But you know, he spent
a lot of time talking to what's the name of the congressman. Well,
yeah, I was going to talk about that next to Mike Gravel, right,
two term senator from Alaska, And I mean he really started getting into
things where, you know, Rogan seemed to be really convinced, especially with
what Gravell had to say. But yeah, but it was interesting how these
senators were convinced. Now, Mike Gravel worked with Daniel Sheehan who helped organize
this. Daniel Sheehan's work with Stephen Greer. He's been in the UFO field
for a long time. Mike Gravell, I believe, going into this already
was more informed than the other senators and was already down that road and believing
in this stuff. He's actually more of a kind of a renegade too.
I mean, he's always into kind of fringe more type of things. But
you know, he's a very convincing person. He comes across as a very
credible person, and he seemed very convincing to Joe Rogan. Yeah, that's
what it seemed like. Yeah, for sure. So it was great that
he had Mike Gravell, the two term senator from Alaska. He actually ran
for president, not that he really had a shot at it. I think
he ran under the Libertarian Party in the nineties. So but yeah, it
was another compelling part to everything. And I think at least, you know,
Joe Rogan was looking for evidence, sitting the far really high, He's
looking for some hard proof. But I think this part of the show is
very convincing. Yeah I thought so too. Yeah, but you're ready.
It did point out and you know that's a similar thing to me to Paul
Hellier, the former Minister of Defense in Canada. You know, he's very
outspoken about this topic and how very convinced he is that extraterrestrials are here living
on Earth. But when it comes down to it, that information is his
belief that he's formed from hearing what others have to say so again, based
on anecdotal evidences, it's great and it contributes a lot, but that's what
it is, so take it for what it's worth. But yeah, you
know what's great about it, though, is and highlighting it. I don't
people know if people realize how many you know, quote unquote credible people,
mainstream people like senators or like military officers are really into this topic, have
had their own experiences and are convinced that what they experienced was not just the
UFO, but that this was a craft from an extraterrestrial civilization. Absolutely,
and you're right, there's so many of them, and those really are my
favorite witnesses and and favorite I guess evidence in this this whole thing is is
some of the testimonies and thoughts from people like that. Yeah, so that's
that's one great thing. And again that's something I appreciated from the Citizen Hearing,
and that's that it provides on video a lot of testimony from these people
with great questions from uh, you know, retired politicians and then them having
to defend or clarify their position. So that's pretty cool. Yeah, I
think it was a great platform, and I think it did a great job
at what it was supposed to do, and we'll we'll see what can come
of it, if anything. You know, I think a lot of times
these efforts go unnoticed because a lot of people, for some reason feel that
it doesn't deserve attention. And I think that's a horrible, horrible situation because
you and I know, all Janter, there's so many exciting things and things
that definitely merit investigation in this whole phenomenon. It's fascinating, There's so many
unknowns and definitely needs to be explored. So the next part was with this
guy named Jason McClellan. I remember that, and now you get a chance
to set the record straight because he was asking you about Robert Bigelow, Robert
Bigelow being a hotel tycoon, you know, who had done UFO research and
he is the owner of Skinwalker Ranch, which we'll get into because that Grogan
was really interested in that, and according to you, Robert Bigelow may have
some UFOs. That is according to me at least in the show. Yes,
So, like I said at the beginning, I think it was great
and he definitely has a genuine interest in all this stuff. And so we
just talked and talked and talked about so many topics. My main purpose was
to talk about Bigelow and a lot of the conspiracies surrounding Bigelow and his his
UFO interest and so on. So those were discussed, and most of it
I didn't really well. There were there were a couple of issues that they
really wanted me to bring up for the show, but I had to explain
to them why they were non issues and if we did say them on the
show, we would look ill informed and they'd be chasing things that didn't really
need to be chased. So fortunately they allowed me to do that, but
I was I understood what they were they were wanting to do. They wanted
to get set up to go to Skinwalker and wanted to talk about some of
the conspiracies around him. So a lot of my comments about Robert Bigelow were
talking about things that some people believe and you know, some of the conspiracies
surrounding him. So in setting things up that way, comments may have been
used in other ways than we're coming out of my mouth, but that's to
be expected. You know, I knew that going in, so so I
mean that that was taken out of perspective that you said that he would work.
I mean, and what was the way that you had originally set as?
Oh, I don't remember, it was so long ago, but you
know, talking about Bigelow might be in possession of UFOs. It's certainly something
that some people believe because Bigelow has spent millions and millions of dollars into researching,
actively researching, funding research into UFOs and extraterrustrial life. It's something he's
extremely passionate about. He's not shy about that, and you know, he's
got his big Low aerospace and people believe that, you know, he may
be in possession of technology that will assist him in getting his habitats into space,
although his habitats are already in space. So that's really the context of
it, right, right, So they just took out the part where you
said some people believe, right, and then put in after that so just
so people know, you know that you don't necessarily believe that, but you
do know that he's got an interest in this topic. It's a possibility that
he may we have no idea what he has, but no, I don't
think that's the case. It's the possibility, but many people will not many
some people believe that he's in possession of extraterrestrial technology. Yeah, I mean,
he probably wouldn't be looking for anything anymore if he had it. Yeah,
that's right. He would have the answers, but he's still hungry for
those answers. So another quote that they kind of took you, a little
out of context. I'm letting you, you know, set the records straight,
and that the Skinwalker Ranch. You said you hadn't been there because if
you had, you'd be dead. Yes, yes, I remember saying that.
I don't remember exactly how what the discussion was going along, but I
think we were talking about different things that people have seen at Skinwalker, what's
there, what happens to people who go there. We talked about the Claris
Island incidents and people dying from UFOs, and so I think this was at
a point we were joking around, and I don't remember exactly how it came
off, but yeah, I did say jokingly that if I'd been to Skinwalker,
I'd be killed. But then I went on to explain that it's a
place that given the opportunity, I would go to you in a heartbeat.
I'd love to do some investigation there, And no, I don't think I
would die at all. I let a skinwalker. I don't think anything would
happen, but I think I might see some interesting stuff. Yeah, that
could be the case. And yeah, because obviously you guys were joking out
around a lot and they put some of it in the show where he's like,
you know, can we take him a UFO? How do we get
big load of let us on Skinwalker Ranch? Can we take him a UFO?
Can we take him a hot chick in an alien outface? And You're
like, he's got lots of money, he could get that if you wanted,
that's right. Yeah, he said you got to figure out what what
men in their sixties like, I said, well, we know he loves
UFO, He's give him a UFO. Yeah. And then he proposed getting
a hot, hot alien chick and I said he could probably buy that.
Yeah. So, and then the cool thing is is why you are talking
to Joe Rogan, his psidekick is talking to doctor Eric Davis, who is
a physicist. Yes work with NIDS or with Big Low NIDS, being the
National Institute of Discovery Scientists which Bigelow funded and did all of this paranormal research,
and doctor Eric Davis was on the ranch and part of this, and
he talked about some of their crazy experiences. Yeah, I was excited to
see him on the show. I'm glad they talked to him because he's,
in my opinion, a very credible person and I like a lot of what
he has to say. So it's cool having him on there, and they
seem to take him very seriously. Mm hmm. Yeah, and doctor Eric
Davis is a very credible person. I forget which award. I'm gonna look
this up because we wrote about him just recently, but yeah, he is.
He's kind of a big deal, and they were really interested in what
he had to say because he confirmed some of the super strange things that happened
on the Skinwalker ranch. Like he even talked about this the portal opening up
and some kind of being walking in and out of a portal. Right,
Yeah, and I'm glad he set that up. You know, it's better
coming from him than coming from me. He was actively involved in researching that.
So but yeah, like I said, that's that's the place I'd love
to go because there are just so many reports of absolutely everything happening there.
It's like a grab bag of paranormal going on there. Yeah, he's a
physicist at the Institute for Advanced Studies in Austin. But I wanted to mention
to do what he got because it was kind of like a big deal.
But he won the award for his Faster than Light space warp studies from the
American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics. We spoke at MUFIN recently too about this
and just that he speaks about how, you know, the possibility of technologies
that can go faster than light, that's how these things could be getting here,
which he believes you know, are here. And I love that discussion
so much, and we're going to hear more and more about that as our
own technologies change and we find these ways. I mean, the warp drive
is currently being worked on, and it's going to happen sooner or later.
But as our understanding of space changes, which happens every day, that excuse
we'll start going away at the excuse that, oh, that's ridiculous that extraterrestrials
could be here. There's no way they could travel from there to hear.
I think that that excuse is going to go away when our understanding of space
changes, which it will. We're a lot of us are arrogant to think
that, you know, we figured out concrete laws of physics and laws of
space. We don't really know anything. And that's what we're finding more and
more every day with new studies of space, that we really just scratch the
surface. So then they go to Skinwalker Ranch. They walk around with night
vision, they don't really have any experiences. They kind of go with this
guy who doesn't seem too credible because he has all these kind of crazy stories.
He kind of seems like he's making up really and they didn't really buy
what he had to say. That's what it seemed like. Yoh yeah,
I wasn't really by him because he was kind of a goofy seemed like he
was kind of just having fun. But then they ran across a rancher who
lived nearby and they interviewed him and he said, yeah, we all have
these really weird experiences around here. And he seemed like a normal guy,
very credible, just regular rancher guy. Yeah. And you know, we've
talked to a few people who live in that area, right, and you
know, people in the area, and you know, they've all got interesting
stores to say, yeah, you know stuff. Everybody's got a weird story
from around here. So it's commonly known that strange things are afoot Skinwalker Ranch.
Yeah, so I mean, and that was kind of There was a
lot more joking afterwards. Oh no, they did interview this girl too,
Oh yeah, and they made fun because she was someone who claimed to have
had an abduction experience and she was this really pretty girl with tattoos and yeah,
she had a big scar. I thought she'd been in playing. Yeah,
so the sidekick had interviewed her, and he was kind of twitter paid
and a little too distracted, distracted by her looks to interview her thoroughly.
But yes, And Joe gave him lots of crap for that, right,
and even hassled him some more. On his podcast on the Joe Rogan Experience,
they talked about that and that the segment is on sci Fi's website where
they've got like a post clip where he and his buddy talk about it after
the show, and he said, man, I sent you there to do
some investigation, but I should have known better. You were worthless. Yeah.
I watched that too, That was hilarious. Yeah, and I would
recommend people go watch that because they are kind of doing some talking afterwards,
and I know the show definitely he was very skeptical, but really in that
podcast you can see how he still thinks he's really interesting. He was like,
you know, kind of can like this stuff is so fascinating and how
he really considers it. It was just that he was setting kind of a
high bar for that particular show, which isn't a bad thing. I think
it's good to set a high bar, and I think it's good to do
that because that's what the rest of the world is doing and if we want
to really get look for the best evidence and move past anecdotal stuff. Anecdotal
stuff is great. I love to bring it down the show, We love
to talk about it and write about it. But in the end, you
know, at least I know, we have a focus on looking for better
than that, because we need better than just anecdotal. We need, you
know, what is considered hard evidence or proof for everyone in order to push
that forward, to move thing forward. And I'm just I'm not I think
that is possible. I think it's out there. We just got to work
really hard yeah, I agree with you, And yeah it I understand from
from Joe's point too, that you know, looking for more. You have
people who are genuinely interested in this, have been interested in this for a
very long time. So after a while, Yeah, I mean those photos,
the testimony, all that stuff is great stuff. It's it's always going
to be. But you could to a point where if you're looking for more,
I get that. You know, what's what's the point in belaboring the
same thing over and over and over. You've already you've already seen that,
You've already gone down that road. So if you're doing a television show trying
to be different than every other television show talking about the same case as every
other television show talks about and seeing the same photos every show is showing,
you got to do something different. And I understand that his goal was to
see something more than he had seen, So right, all right, Well
that's pretty much the show. I think we talked about the other media step
earlier. Was there something else you wanted to add? Well, I will
say that you know this this show, I overall I was. I was
happy with with how they presented it. It was much better than I thought
it would be, and going into it, I kept in mind, you
know, what I'd been told from our buddy Clifford Cliff because he he did
what show did he do? The Cobert Report? Yeah, and you know,
people gave him a lot of crap for that, and you know,
going along and playing playing with the skits and being silly about the topic.
But you know, you have to go into these things understanding what they are
from the beginning. And Joe Rogan as a comedian, this is an entertainment
show on sci Fi. So going into it knowing that I knew what to
it, well, I feared, you know, much worse, and knew
that it could be because it's it's an entertainment show. But overall I thought
they treated it well. They did give a lot of time and attention to
important things like the citizen hearing and talk to great people like Eric Davis and
myself to my own horn. But yeah, so annoying. It was a
comedy mainly comedy show. You know, I was expecting a low bar and
I was pleasantly surprised. Yeah, I got to agree with you. You
know, I think I liked it. Overall. I thought it was funny
and I thought they brought up some really good convincing staff, so overall I
pretty much thought it was kind of cool. And in these things, you
have to know your role, and I think you kind of have to play
along otherwise you're not fitting with the show and you know that you're going to
be cast in a negative light. You know, if you you butt heads
and you sit there and don't understand that they're they're trying to be lighthearted.
If you don't understand that and play back a little bit, they're going to
be less interested in what you have to say. So right, if you
can come down to their level and go along with what they're looking for,
then what you say is going to be more important. Yeah, I totally
agree with you there. Before you go, There's one thing I want to
talk about and people may not know, but unfortunately, Jesse Marcel Junior passed
away yesterday of a heart attack. He's someone that I've known for a long
time because I met him doing the Roswell conferences for the city and so of
course we always bring him and then I was running his website for a long
time and forwarding his messages. He of course is the son of Jesse Marcel,
who was the intelligence officer first on the scene in Roswell who collected the
material, and then later in the seventies was interviewed by Samton Friedman to say
that, hey, what I had collected was not a weather balloon that was
vs. It was something very strange that we thought was extra treasturil. So
he helped make that Roswell become the big famous thing it is today. And
Jesse Marcell Junior, his son, had seen some of the material that his
father had brought home. He was in the military. He was a flight
surgeon, very nice, credible person who supported his father's story and supported saying,
hey, I saw some of that material. It's the strangest thing I
had ever seen. And unfortunately he passed away. And you had the privilege
of recently going to the Riswell crash site with him and even to the place
where the material was stored. It was incredible. Yeah, I was so
sad to hear about his passing, and I'm fortunate to have been able to
go out to the debris filled with him. And that was just an incredible
experience going out there with both he and Frank Kimbler. We went out there
and Yeah, he hadn't been out there in a long time, and he
was out there with his daughter too, and I just was very impressed with
what a smart man Jesse he was not just I mean, he was a
doctor and was deployed to the Middle East in his sixties. I think he's
very very active military person. But his intelligence that surprised me, was very
current enough to date with things developing with the privatization of space and these private
space companies and space exploration, lots of new developments. I was able to
kind of geek out with him about a lot of space stuff, and that
that really surprised me. Was unexpected, But he was very excited about everything
that's going on in space and where where we're going, and how well we'll
soon be moving out into space, and so I'll remember that forever. That
was just great. Yeah, really really cool guy. So our condolences to
his family, and I'm certainly gonna gonna miss him. We seeing him every
year in Roswell and just talking to him once in a while, and he's
just a really really cool guy. You know. It's it's really nice to
meet some of these people, and they turned out to be so down to
earth and just really caring, decent people, so down to earth, such
a caring, sweet guy, so approachable. It's just somebody you just want
to hug him, you know, he is so just such a nice guy.
Yeah, all right, Well, thank you big Jay for being on
the show. Another one down and that was a lot of fun. And
just you know, we've talked about a lot of stuff because I thought they
brought up a lot of really important topics. Yeah, and then there were
a lot more that he was very fascinated and that didn't get shown in the
show, but you know, hopefully they'll consider that for another episode. But
we talked a lot about the Phoenix lights and about mass sightings and all sorts
of interesting things. But like I said, a genuinely curious guy who really
passionately wants proof like we all do. Right, all right, So go
check out Joe Rogan Questions Everything. You can go to the Sci Fi Channel
and they do a synopsis of everything that was on the show, and then,
like Jason said, you can see some of the clips of the show
and also some aftermath stuff that they did on there that you can watch.
You can also go to Amazon I right right now and watch the whole episode
if you would like, or just keep an eye on the Sci Fi channel.
I'm sure they're running rerunts. Otherwise, don't forget to check out open
Minds dot tv for the latest. UFO knew some of those stories we talked
about earlier. We'll have more stories up. We'll have a little bit more
about Jesse Marcel. You can also visit our facebooks and our twitters. We're
always sending out information that way, and our YouTube. We've always got some
videos there and I'm sure we'll try to put something together for Jesse on YouTube
as well. But I want to thank the guys who have donated. Are
awesome open and close music. There's always people asking what are those songs?
So unluckily our open music was custom made by Caleb Hanks, thank you very
much. And the closed music is called then I forget the name of the
song, but it's done by two Earth Minutes and they had sent that to
us and allowed us to use it and I love that song too, so
thanks guys for that. Otherwise, everyone else, have a wonderful week.
Thank you so much for joining us again, and we will talk to you
next week. People Usta Manyama firsts first, which s st