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Sword and Scale contains adult themes and
violence, and is not intended for all

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audiences. Listener discretion is advised.
He told me he needs my help to

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make her smaller. They tell you
how she died, No, but it

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was pretty obvious. Would you see
her head was keiped? Hello and welcome

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to season ten, episode two hundred
and fifty four of Sword and Scale,

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a show that reveals that the worst
monsters are real. Before you say any

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thing, we do realize that the
Android app is completely broken, but we're

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working on a new one. We've
been working on a new one for a

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while now. It will be out
next year as soon as we can.

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And yeah, a lot of stuff's
broken. We're working on fixing it,

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and I promise you we will have
it all fixed with a shiny, brand

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new app. We've got so much
cool stuff planned, but there's only so

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much we can do at once,
and it's been a bit of a rough

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year because of that. But listen, twenty twenty four is looking bright.

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But before we get there, we
do have a holiday season to get through.

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And that reminds me. The best
place to shop for this asshole in

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your life that you love for some
reason is our store just god swordinscale dot

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com and hit the store link on
the top of the page. That'll take

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you to all of the current stuff
that will be going away very very soon,

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so go get it before the holidays. We'll get it right now.

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I don't forget to log in and
use your discount if you're a Plus member.

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All right, try to imagine this. It's midday. You're at home,

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sitting or lying on your couch watching
some TV. Maybe you're catching up

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on a new Netflix show or finding
out what the hell to be is.

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You're kicking back with the TV on, flipping through your phone, searching through

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social media, looking for something or
someone to judge. When suddenly you feel

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something. It's not some sort of
spiritual awakening or realization about who you are

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and you're placing universe. You're just
hungry. There's a rumbling in your stomach

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and it's creeping up on you.
Maybe you're not quite ready to eat just

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then and there, but you know
that pretty soon it will be. So

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you start to think what should I
make for dinner? Then all of a

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sudden it hits you. You're in
the mood for pasta that sounds pretty good,

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spaghetti sounds pretty good right about now. Yeah, So you'll walk over

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to your kitchen and you'll find the
things you need. You got your pot,

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your strainer, your sauce, your
pasta, and you've even found some

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salad and bread to go along with
your meal. Lucky you. But then

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you think you know what would make
this even better. Meat. Meat makes

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everything better. Nothing beats it.
Good meats on your spaghetti, right,

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So you go check the fridge and
damn nothing there, not even an old

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gray packet of ground beef at the
back of the freezer that you forgot about

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it. You're just out there's nothing
in there. But hold on a second.

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There may be some frozen ground beef
down in the freezer that you can

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thaw. Yeah, that's it,
the freezer. So you go downstairs and

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open the freezer. But something is
weird. There's a strange bag in there.

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You don't recognize it. It looks
like a like a black trash bag.

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So you touch it, but it's
frozen solid. You peel it open

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as best you can, and then
over whelming and awful smell smacks you in

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the face. You see what's inside
the bag and you can't make sense of

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it. But you know what you're
looking at, and then suddenly, just

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like that, your appetite is gone
right away. Not a good bod that

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male a female. I think It's
just across the western border of Pennsylvania and

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sitting direct in the middle of Pittsburgh
and Cleveland is the moderately sized city of

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Youngstown, Ohio. Traditionally, Youngstown
is known for being a major player in

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US steel manufacturing, but when the
steel industry saw a steep decline in the

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nineteen seventies, Youngstown and its people
were left without a major industry. Since

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then, the city has struggled to
redefine itself and has earned a bad reputation.

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At one point, it was considered
the murder capital of the United States.

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Today that title belongs to New Orleans. Of course. In any case,

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a few peru's message boards about Youngstown, like we did, you'll find

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that the people living there mostly agree
that Youngstown isn't all that different from any

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other mid sized city in America.
In Youngstown, there are safe, crime

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free areas and there are dangerous areas
where crime is known to happen, just

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like everywhere else. Back in twenty
seventeen, a twenty eight year old woman

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named Shannon Graves was living in Youngstown, but in June of that year,

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Shannon's older sister went to her local
police department and reported Shannon missing. The

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lead investigator that was eventually assigned to
this case was Detective Sergeant Michael Lambert.

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Shannon Graves was a young girl in
her twenties. We'd been living on Youngstown's

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West side. Shannon Graves was a
struggling hair dresser. She was going through

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school, close to graduation. She
had supplemented her income to pay for her

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education by working as a dancer.
She had a sister and a brother,

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and a father who was an ex
Youngstown police detective. Detective Lambert kindly refers

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to Shannon's chosen profession as dancer.
But if we're going to be real about

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it, she worked as a stripper, which, hey, there's nothing wrong

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with that. Shannon was an attractive
young woman and she took advantage of her

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good looks to make a living.
The problem is that Shannon fell into that

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line of work just a bit too
early. According to her sister, Shannon

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started stripping at a very young age. How long is she stripped? Maybe

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twelve years ago that I know,
maybe before that I didn't really since she's

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fifteen sixteen. Shannon Graves was born
in November of nineteen eighty eight after her

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father cheated on his wife with another
woman. Shannon's dad and her half sister

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didn't even know about Shannon's existence until
Shannon was six years old, when Shannon's

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mom revealed to her dad that he
was the father. So after, Shannon's

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mom tragically died of cancer while Shannon
was still very young. Subsequently, Shannon

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dropped out of high school and started
supporting herself by dancing at a local strip

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club. Such a sad story we
keep hearing in America, repeat it over

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and over again. Despite the struggles
that Shannon had to face and the career

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that she eventually found herself in,
Shannon was a pretty smart and responsible young

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woman. She didn't abuse drugs,
She earned her ged, and by age

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twenty eight, she started looking for
ways to support herself that didn't involve taking

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her clothes off for money. So
you see your Christmas time and when you

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start to think, you know,
hey, we haven't heard from Shannon in

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a while. Your birthday, when
did you write? March? And then

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it was Easter right after she wasn't
in that ant's house, which you know,

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she didn't show up. It really
wasn't a big deal because sometimes she

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wouldn't, but most of the time
she was there. So I made that

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excuse in my mind. And then
I think it was Father's Day after that,

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and I'm like, okay, now, then something's wrong. In twenty

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seventeen, Shannon missed three family holiday
get togethers in a row. That's when

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the red flags went up. Strangely, when attempts were made to reach Shannon

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by phone, she did respond,
at least that's what her dad originally thought.

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So I kept trying to one time
it ring, nobody answered. So

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I says, this is your dead
call me? Did she call me?

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Beck? She goes, who is
this that said this is your dead?

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Jack asked, did that that was
it? So I told my son test

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your sister. I thought her to
call me. Did he tish that number?

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Did she titched? Beck? I
had no brothers. When I said

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something's up, that's where toils a
nigger miss it versus report. After this

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bizarre phone call in text exchange,
Shannon's family realized that one of two things

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had to be true. Either Shannon
was cutting all ties with her family and

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she was going about it in a
very strange way, or a different woman

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was using Shannon's cell phone for police. The latter seemed like the likely scenario.

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When Shannon was reported missing, detectives
at the Youngstown Police Department began focusing

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their attention on the people that Shannon
was close to, and that meant her

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boyfriend and ex boyfriend. They learned
that before her disappearance, Shannon was engaged

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to a guy named John Scirada.
John was forty one years old. He

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owned and operated a small home improvement
business that Shannon helped him run. She

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acted as his bookkeeper and helped John
with marketing and keeping with her goal to

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get out of the stripper business,
Shannon was hopeful that John's business would take

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off. In an effort to make
that happen, Shannon produced a commercial for

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John's company that aired locally in Youngstown, and, being the performer that she

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was, Shannon appeared in her own
commercial room for years. Unfortunately, John's

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business never really got off its feet
because not long after he and Shannon got

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engaged, John got arrested. He
was also on the side a small time

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drug trafficker, and as a result
of that, had been sent to prison.

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So when John went to prison,
Shannon began dating Arturo while John was

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away. How did she get involved
with Arturo? From what I've learned,

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like this group she was with,
they're a weird group, but it's an

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understatement. Yeah. In researching Shannon's
life, the police quickly realized that Shannon

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hung out with a pretty strange cast
of characters, almost all of whom used

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bizarre nicknames or aliases that had nothing
to do with their actual names. Even

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Shannon was known to sometimes go by
her stripper name, which was Star in

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any case, after her fiance went
to prison, Shannon began dating someone else,

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thirty one year old Arturo Novoa,
who often used the alias Anthony Gonzalez.

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Going forward, you'll notice that some
people refer to Arturo as Anthony and

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some people call him Arturo, So
just remember it's the same guy. Arturo

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Levo was a young man from the
East side of Youngstown. He was a

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self proclaimed rapper trying to break into
the music world, hadn't really had a

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lot of success, had a history
of small part time jobs that he had

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a trouble holding, and at that
time he was unemployed. Unemployed Arturo lived

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with Shannon in her apartment and largely
depended on her for income as he perused

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his music industry aspirations. As far
as his musical talent, well, Arturo

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wasn't necessarily a bad rap artist.
I mean, I'm not a rap expert,

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but it's not like it's a particularly
difficult thing to do to find words

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that rhyme together. In any case, to the casual, untrained ear,

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it sounds like a lot of his
tunes are pretty generic. Let's put it

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that way. I gotta say that
REPI dat is truly got worse. You

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know, sick of radio stations out
here promote and dirt. Perhaps unsurprisingly,

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Shannon's in Arturo's relationship was pretty rocky. They were known to argue a lot,

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and there were many instances of breaking
up and then reuniting. Naturally,

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when Shannon's family realized that they hadn't
heard from Shannon in a while, the

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first person they reached out to was
our Turo. He was, after all,

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still living in her apartment. That
says, you guys, get an

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argument or sudden we bote guppies.
She came some guy picked her up as

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a hold on. You're telling me
that Shannon just left, left her clothes,

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left her dog, and left her
car. That don't sound right to

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me. According to our Turo,
Shannon just up and left them, which,

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given their history, made sense.
What didn't make sense is that Shannon

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seemingly left all of her belongings behind, including her pit bull Mollie. Her

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relationship with her dog. What was
that like? People said it was like

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her. She took her everywhere and
did everything, look at anything for her,

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and how she of her. Shannon
treated Molly like a daughter for her.

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Nothing was too good for that dog. If Shannon did ditch ur Turro

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and her apartment, there was simply
no chance that she wouldn't take her baby

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with her, making matter is even
more suspicious. The police eventually spoke to

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one of Arturo's closest friends, who
had helped our Turo burn some of Shannon's

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belongings. Not looking good, during
the investigation, we learned that Arturo Novalla

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had a friend named Andrew Herman who
assisted him in burning Shannon's belongings. Several

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witnesses actually saw this, and when
we were able to catch up with Andrew

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Herman, he did agree to come
in and give us a statement. Basically,

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what he wanted me to do is, you know, he wanted me

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to help him get rid of the
last of her crap that she left there.

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Okay, both documents, clothes,
stupid shit like that. I figured

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he was being spiteful. I kind
of helped him burn it. But now

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over the months and everything's going on, she seems to be missing. He

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told me that she left him,
she doesn't staying with him anymore. They

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elaborate on that. That's really all
he really told him. Should she left

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him for some other dude? And
that was it. According to Andrew,

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he was just trying to be helpful
and trying to console a friend that seemed

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heartbroken over the fact that his girlfriend
left him for another man. But now

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that Shannon was missing, Andrew had
some concerns. Even so, he seemed

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on the fence about the idea that
Arturo was capable of hurting Shannon, let

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alone capable of killing her. I
started thinking about that fire. I said,

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you know what, I've seen too
many Prime shows. This does not

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look good. That and from one
year he still has a dog. Yeah,

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that's what I heard it. And
from when I lived with her,

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that dog was treated better than a
freaking toddler. That was her baby.

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I don't see why he has her
dog. I don't see why she would

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lead it. Yeah, and I
think everybody thinks he killed, which is

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a logical jump, I guess.
But yeah, if that was the case,

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I really highly doubt that. He
doesn't seem like the type to do

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that. I mean, eventually.
The police also learned that Arturo wasn't living

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in Shannon's apartment by himself. He
had some roommates. Also sharing the apartment

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was a young woman that Arturo had
dated before he met Shannon. Her name

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was Katrina Layton, and when Katrina
moved into the apartment with Arturo, she

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brought along her two young children.
Katrina and Arturo had dated each other for

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several years on and off prior to
Shannon's disappearance. All accounts of the relationship

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between Arturo and Katrina were that the
two fought off and it was a tumultuous

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relationship. In a few instances,
Katrina and Shannon actually had physical confrontations because

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of the love triangle situation. Naturally, after learning about this love triangle,

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the police wanted to speak with both
Arturo and Katrina. Unfortunately, none of

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them seemed to be very cooperative,
surprise, surprise, and every time the

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cops went to Shannon's apartment, nobody
would answer the door. And it wasn't

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until we towed a vehicle belonging to
Katrina that was unlicensed and abandoned on the

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street in front that Katrina contacted us. So we used that opportunity to interview

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00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:12,759
Katrina. One of the reasons we've
been knocking on doors down there, okay,

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00:20:12,839 --> 00:20:18,279
just because we're looking for Shannon.
Oh yeah, I've heard something about

207
00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:22,759
that. I haven't really been following
it all too closely all like that,

208
00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:29,119
just because, I mean, for
the simple fact that me and Anthony were

209
00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:33,160
together for seven years and then,
you know, we just needed a break.

210
00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:36,599
We slid out for a little bit. They were together for a very

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00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:40,920
short period of time. We started
talking and we got back together. According

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00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:45,640
to Katrina, she didn't know much
about Shannon's disappearance, and she freely admitted

213
00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:52,240
that Shannon wasn't her favorite person.
What was she like? Hmm, she

214
00:20:53,079 --> 00:21:00,200
was trouble in my opinion, I
feel like she just didn't care about other

215
00:21:00,319 --> 00:21:03,720
people. She was the type that
wanted to be with somebody who had a

216
00:21:03,759 --> 00:21:07,319
lot of money, who could take
care of her where she could just kind

217
00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:11,240
of live that life and she could
just kind of do what she wanted,

218
00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:15,720
and just the type of person she
portrayed herself as, I don't hang around

219
00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:18,559
with people like that. I tried
to be a nice to her because she

220
00:21:18,599 --> 00:21:22,960
did live in Clown's house, and
then she turned aroundself. To the Anthony,

221
00:21:22,519 --> 00:21:27,680
Katrina explained that her understanding was that
Shannon left her Turo for another man,

222
00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:33,160
and before she did, ur Turo
and Shannon came to an agreement about

223
00:21:33,319 --> 00:21:37,880
the car that Shannon left behind,
as well as her dog, Molly.

224
00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:41,559
She basically told him, you know, can you hold the dog for me?

225
00:21:41,799 --> 00:21:45,079
And he said yeah. He said, you know, but since you're

226
00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:48,880
kind of un and leaving, you
know, I cannot use the car just

227
00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:52,559
till I get around, So I
could get around, try to get some

228
00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:56,039
work, this and that. So
they had some sort of mutual agreement over

229
00:21:56,119 --> 00:22:00,799
the car and the dog. For
months, both Katrina and our Touro used

230
00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:07,319
Shannon's car to get around. Now, if that wasn't suspicious enough, Katrina

231
00:22:07,519 --> 00:22:11,960
had also used Shannon's cell phone as
her own. I don't think it's any

232
00:22:12,039 --> 00:22:15,720
longer in service. That was like
one of those minute phones, like those

233
00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:18,920
a bomb of phones. But I
mean I got my phone out, so

234
00:22:18,039 --> 00:22:22,119
it's like I don't know, but
I was using it late, temporarily type

235
00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:25,400
thing. This girl disappears, Yeah, she loves behind her dog, which

236
00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:32,160
everybody says as a baby. She
los his phone and Anthony's I'm sorry,

237
00:22:32,279 --> 00:22:34,400
not a new girlfriend, but own
girlfriend who is not back because not using

238
00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:38,720
the phone, was using Yeah,
and so it looks weird. Yeah,

239
00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:45,799
it all looked very weird. And
things were only getting weirder. Not only

240
00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:51,160
did Katrina use Shannon's car and her
cell phone, but someone was also using

241
00:22:51,319 --> 00:22:56,759
Shannon's directional card, which is sometimes
referred to as a welfare card or a

242
00:22:56,279 --> 00:23:04,759
food stamp cardsh Shannon left. Do
you think she would leave behind her directional

243
00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:10,799
card? Honestly, I don't know. That's one thing I can If you

244
00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:18,279
leave your somewhere at your lifeline,
that's just something really like your No,

245
00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:22,960
I've never you've never seen Anthony use
her card. I've never seen muse it.

246
00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:30,559
That not that I know of.
No. Suspiciously, after Shannon went

247
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:36,559
missing, every time our directional card
was used, our turo and Katrina's directional

248
00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:42,039
cards were also used at the same
location within seconds of Shannon's card being used.

249
00:23:44,519 --> 00:23:48,960
Huh. Now, I'm not a
detective, but see where I'm going

250
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:55,240
with this. Basically, everything about
this situation looked bad. But even so,

251
00:23:55,440 --> 00:24:03,319
Katrina maintained that Arturo didn't have anything
to do with shannon disappearance. And

252
00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:07,599
I'll tell you why, because I've
known him a very long time and I've

253
00:24:07,839 --> 00:24:12,200
never once seen a violence side to
him. Because so you don't believe you

254
00:24:12,319 --> 00:24:18,920
dead, and you don't believe if
she is, I don't think you got

255
00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:21,319
anything to do with it. Well, well, I'm connecting ants. What

256
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:25,160
do you think I'm afraid of her? From what you're saying and from what

257
00:24:25,279 --> 00:24:29,160
you're telling me, you're afraid that
Anthony is something to her. What Katrina

258
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:34,039
didn't realize, or maybe she did
and was simply playing dumb, was that

259
00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:41,599
the detectives weren't only considering the possibility
that Arturo killed Shannon. Maybe, just

260
00:24:41,839 --> 00:24:49,079
maybe, if Shannon had been murdered, the killer was sitting in the interview

261
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:59,599
room. Maybe So do you see
how tiny I am? Really? I

262
00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:04,960
hope honestly, guys, honestly,
guys, and all in all honesty,

263
00:25:06,079 --> 00:25:08,480
I really would's Anthony, I don't
think you have anything word about I just

264
00:25:08,599 --> 00:25:12,359
don't. I mean, I can't
see how everything's pointing. Well, yeah,

265
00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:15,359
I mean I think she's a last
voyt for not obviously you know what

266
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:18,480
I mean. Well, not only
that, but did you get the car,

267
00:25:18,759 --> 00:25:22,640
the dog, the directional card.
I mean, I just feel that

268
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:30,519
she probably not some guy out doing
her own thing. Katrina did her best

269
00:25:30,559 --> 00:25:36,480
to put the detective's suspicions to bed, but there were too many strange things

270
00:25:36,559 --> 00:25:41,880
to ignore. Even so, the
cops didn't have a body or any direct

271
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:47,920
evidence of voul play. If they
were going to pursue this investigation further,

272
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:53,720
they were going to have to interview
or Turo. Those are the things we

273
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:59,319
would like to talk to Ancy about. Well, I wouldn't talk about it,

274
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:04,759
and I'll be honest with you.
The weirdest things here is that that

275
00:26:07,519 --> 00:26:10,480
you gotta understand. He's not purposely
what of you guys, It's just with

276
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:17,359
his work schedule. What time does
he work? It varies like the weekends,

277
00:26:18,559 --> 00:26:22,920
dishwashing. You heard that right,
With a straight face. Katrina explained

278
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:30,079
that our Turo was too busy to
meet with police to discuss his missing ex

279
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:38,839
girlfriend. Because our turro's dishwashing job
at Outback Steakhouse was too demanding to sum

280
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:45,720
up. Katrina was clearly stonewalling the
detectives, and I'll tell you something,

281
00:26:45,559 --> 00:26:52,599
detectives don't like to be stonewalled.
But it didn't matter, because five days

282
00:26:52,680 --> 00:27:02,759
after this interview, something unexpected happened. My name was can Camill. Police

283
00:27:02,799 --> 00:27:04,680
there right away, my wife and
your son A good boy. You know

284
00:27:08,839 --> 00:27:17,160
that, male and female? I
think it's In late July of twenty seventeen,

285
00:27:18,039 --> 00:27:23,480
a married couple in Youngstown's neighboring town
of Campbell found dismembered body parts in

286
00:27:23,599 --> 00:27:29,200
their basement freezer, a pair of
legs, a pair of arms, and

287
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:37,319
part of a human head. Tragically, but perhaps unsurprisingly, police were eventually

288
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:42,559
able to confirm that these body parts
belonged to twenty eight year old Shannon Graves.

289
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:48,640
The next few things that they needed
to figure out were who put Shannon's

290
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:55,160
body parts in there, why had
they done so, and where was the

291
00:27:55,279 --> 00:28:22,960
rest of Shannon. In February of
twenty seventeen, twenty eight year old Shannon

292
00:28:22,039 --> 00:28:29,119
Graves went missing, but her family
didn't take note of Shannon's absence until she

293
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:36,240
missed three holiday get togethers in a
row. Four months after Shannon was last

294
00:28:36,279 --> 00:28:42,079
seen in June of twenty seventeen,
Shannon's sister filed a missing persons report with

295
00:28:42,279 --> 00:28:48,519
Youngstown Police Department in Ohio. About
a month later, in Youngstown's neighboring town

296
00:28:48,599 --> 00:28:53,279
of Campbell, a young wife was
at home when she started thinking about what

297
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:59,039
to make for dinner. She decided
that she wanted to make some spaghetti,

298
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:03,440
but she didn't have any ground beef
to put in the spaghetti sauce. The

299
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:11,160
Camel Police Department in Ohio got a
phone call from a couple who explained that

300
00:29:11,359 --> 00:29:17,319
a friend of theirs had asked if
they would keep a freezer for him because

301
00:29:17,359 --> 00:29:19,319
his power went out and he was
afraid he was going to lose his meat.

302
00:29:21,359 --> 00:29:25,559
The young wife remembered that one of
her husband's friends had recently stored a

303
00:29:25,759 --> 00:29:33,160
small chest freezer along with some meat
in their basement. Or thinking was that

304
00:29:33,279 --> 00:29:37,640
she could borrow some of the ground
beef from the freezer and replace it later,

305
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:45,240
But when she went to her basement, she noticed something strange. The

306
00:29:45,319 --> 00:29:56,119
freezer had a padlock on it.
I was thinking about what and her freezer,

307
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:03,319
Maybe there maybe some in there so
I went down and I knew that

308
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:07,160
the padlock was on that freezer,
and as I took a little screw drive

309
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:11,039
around with me and I just unscrewed
it and then I opened it up.

310
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:18,519
I saw the black trash bag.
It's now horrible. I thought it was

311
00:30:18,559 --> 00:30:21,680
spoiled me. At first, I
was hoping that it was just spoiled me.

312
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:26,519
After finding a black trash bag in
the freezer, this young wife told

313
00:30:26,559 --> 00:30:30,559
her husband what she found, and
he immediately went to go take a look

314
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:37,000
for himself. I went down,
I did it and I opened my flipped

315
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:41,119
and then I just like what that
just what this is how you storyed me?

316
00:30:41,039 --> 00:30:45,640
Got your scissors and it smells really
bad. I'm like, why would

317
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:47,839
it? That's when I knew.
I sad, Why would you? You

318
00:30:47,839 --> 00:30:49,400
wouldn't put rotten meat in a freezer
and freeze it and did a lot in

319
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:55,039
a freezer because it was refrozen.
And I recognized the foot and the thing,

320
00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:57,200
and I just my wife grabbed her
head and I grabbed my ead.

321
00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:00,079
It was a body, and I
said, Dana, turnass to call the

322
00:31:00,119 --> 00:31:07,039
police. We responded. During the
initial response, we knew that we had

323
00:31:07,079 --> 00:31:12,759
the remains of a white female,
and at that point, because her remains

324
00:31:12,799 --> 00:31:18,920
were frozen, we were not sure
how much of her body we've actually had,

325
00:31:18,799 --> 00:31:25,200
and later during the autopsic process,
we realized we were menacing at Torso

326
00:31:25,559 --> 00:31:30,960
and part of her head. The
body parts found in the freezer were eventually

327
00:31:30,079 --> 00:31:37,000
identified as belonging to missing twenty eight
year old Shannon Graves, but before detectives

328
00:31:37,039 --> 00:31:42,960
confirmed that they sought to identify the
person that put the freezer in the basement,

329
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:48,880
and in our subsequent interviews, the
Eschenbas identified Arturo Novella as the man

330
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:52,480
who brought the freezer to their house. Why don't you start with how you

331
00:31:52,599 --> 00:31:56,640
met Anthony. I met Anthony.
I went over to my neighbor's house,

332
00:31:59,359 --> 00:32:02,960
however, decided to be I'm guessing
I'm ready bout his sound, sorry,

333
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:07,279
And I'll say between four and four
and a half years. And then she

334
00:32:07,359 --> 00:32:10,400
lived right up the street from me, actually not through first street, and

335
00:32:10,599 --> 00:32:15,160
you started hanging around, and you
know, we throw my xbox together to

336
00:32:15,279 --> 00:32:20,880
typical friendships of you know. On
the day after Katrina Layton was questioned by

337
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:27,039
Youngstown detectives, Arturo called a friend
and explained that his power was out and

338
00:32:27,119 --> 00:32:30,440
that he wanted to store a freezer
in his friend's basement to preserve his meat.

339
00:32:31,559 --> 00:32:37,400
A few hours later, he dropped
off the freezer, put it in

340
00:32:37,519 --> 00:32:40,920
the friend's basement, plugged it in, and left. Four days later,

341
00:32:42,079 --> 00:32:46,920
his friend's wife decided that she wanted
some spaghetti, which led to the discovery

342
00:32:47,279 --> 00:32:53,119
of Shannon's arms, legs, and
part of her head. After this discovery,

343
00:32:53,839 --> 00:32:59,759
both Arturo and Katrina were picked up
by police and brought in for questioning.

344
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:04,119
Without prompting you in any way,
can you tell me everything you know

345
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:08,039
about Shannon and her disappearance and where
she is that. The problem is,

346
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:12,720
like I said before, I don't
know much about her. Like as a

347
00:33:12,799 --> 00:33:16,319
person, I'm not really worried about
personal information. I'm worried about where is

348
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:21,440
she right now? That I don't
know. I mean, I just I

349
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:25,400
don't know. I so, Katrina, I honestly don't know. Since Shannon's

350
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:30,079
disappearance, Okay, you've been driving
her car. No no, no,

351
00:33:30,759 --> 00:33:35,119
since she disappeared, you're using the
phone that she used when she was with

352
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:38,920
him. And then since she's been
gone, her dog's been at your apartment.

353
00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:45,240
Okay, since she's been gone,
her car has been used to Egypt.

354
00:33:45,599 --> 00:33:49,319
Do you understand what I'm running down
here? This list of things?

355
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:52,559
We've already went over these I have
now imagine we're telling this to a room

356
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:58,680
full of twelve readonable people. What
do they think you did? I didn't

357
00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:01,720
do anything. When Katrina was interviewed
for a second time, she gave the

358
00:34:01,839 --> 00:34:08,320
same oblivious responses that she'd given the
first time, but now the police had

359
00:34:08,519 --> 00:34:15,239
body parts in a whole lot more
information. During a search warrant at Shannon's

360
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:21,400
apartment, we recovered a rent receipt
for another apartment on Youngstown's south side.

361
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:28,000
It appeared to us that the couple
were now renting a new apartment. However,

362
00:34:28,079 --> 00:34:31,960
they were not living in it.
Arturo and Katrina were living in Shannon's

363
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:37,719
apartment, but they were also paying
rent for another apartment that was only a

364
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:44,679
few miles away. When detectives visited
this second apartment, they found noticeable drag

365
00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:51,519
marks on the floor that perfectly matched
the bottom of the freezer that contained Shannon's

366
00:34:51,559 --> 00:34:59,039
body parts. Clearly, someone had
dragged the freezer into and then out of

367
00:34:59,599 --> 00:35:06,599
this apartment, and clearly this apartment
really only had one purpose the hide Shannon's

368
00:35:06,639 --> 00:35:13,800
dismembered body parts. The detectives eventually
concluded that their first interview with Katrina must

369
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:20,000
have spooked her and Arturo, prompting
them to move the freezer into a friend's

370
00:35:20,079 --> 00:35:25,559
house. Anthony just says something about
buying him a freezer until we got referred

371
00:35:25,599 --> 00:35:30,079
to soave to hold the food.
So a month ago, you bought a

372
00:35:30,119 --> 00:35:32,519
freezer to put an ouse that you
don't live it. We were, at

373
00:35:32,599 --> 00:35:37,239
least at the suppertment. It's not
yet. Well, it's not like you're

374
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:42,440
living a life of luxury that you
bought a freezer all the ship that you

375
00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:46,440
don't have. You bought a freezer
you don't have furniture. How did he

376
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:51,239
pay for it? I gave him. I'm pretty sure I even cash.

377
00:35:52,559 --> 00:35:58,159
I think he got it out.
Om ah. Yes, a murder plot

378
00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:04,679
is never complete without a visit to
Walmart. At this point in her interview,

379
00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:09,239
Katrina did admit that she and Arturo
had purchased a small chest freezer,

380
00:36:10,119 --> 00:36:16,119
but the cops had not revealed that
they found that freezer or Shannon's body parts

381
00:36:16,159 --> 00:36:24,559
inside. When they did. Katrina's
response was interesting. And when I found

382
00:36:24,599 --> 00:36:29,960
the bugs, I wasn't sure if
they came from the new place or the

383
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:31,639
place where. Now, what about
it? If it came because of your

384
00:36:31,679 --> 00:36:37,320
freezer, All of the bugs came
from Brandon freezer. Because when you put

385
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:40,960
a body in a freezer, it
brings bucks. The bugs came, bugs

386
00:36:42,039 --> 00:36:45,880
came. Do you know what I
just said? When you put a body

387
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:47,519
in the freezer? I was wondering
if you I mean, I understand you're

388
00:36:47,519 --> 00:36:50,360
trying to get your story out,
but do you hear what I just said?

389
00:36:50,559 --> 00:36:52,639
Yes, I don't even understand where
you're kidding them. Okay, did

390
00:36:52,639 --> 00:36:55,000
it occurred to you that the bugs
let me from the bunny and the freezer?

391
00:36:55,559 --> 00:37:00,960
I know because the landlord car the
street from where we're right now had

392
00:37:01,039 --> 00:37:04,960
a bug guy in his driveway the
other day. Okay, and that's where

393
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:08,679
I was like, all right,
well, the new person, what do

394
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:12,639
you mean body in the freezer?
What are you talking of? Body in

395
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:15,679
the freezer? That's not what brought
the bugs. Why do you keep saying

396
00:37:16,639 --> 00:37:19,639
because there was a body in a
freezer? What do you mean there's a

397
00:37:19,679 --> 00:37:22,920
body in a freezer? And what
freezer? The freezer that you guys bought.

398
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:27,400
Let me show you. This is
a freezer. This is the body

399
00:37:28,199 --> 00:37:34,119
body in freezer. Katrina denied having
any knowledge of a dead body being left

400
00:37:34,159 --> 00:37:39,239
in the freezer that she paid for, and she continued to deny that she

401
00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:45,280
had any knowledge of Shannon Graves being
dead. Unfortunately for her, during these

402
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:51,960
emotional denials, she let a few
things slip. I gain, I told

403
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:57,920
you about ten times that the missing
girl is dead in your freezer. I'm

404
00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:00,960
looking for some kind of reaction.
I'm because he looks shocked at all.

405
00:38:01,199 --> 00:38:05,719
Yeah, forget all this. Do
you kill her? Hell? No,

406
00:38:06,119 --> 00:38:09,039
were you there when she was killed? No? What? Well? Sure

407
00:38:09,079 --> 00:38:12,719
looks like you did. No,
what do you mean it looks like I

408
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:15,440
did. She's in your freezer,
the one you paid for, so it

409
00:38:15,559 --> 00:38:19,840
kind of looks like you killed her. She was banging your band, and

410
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:22,960
you are in possession of all her
earthly goods, So it kind of looks

411
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:24,519
like you guilty. Oh guy,
it looks like I killed her. He

412
00:38:24,639 --> 00:38:28,519
sure does. Okay, I have
to interject here for a moment because I'm

413
00:38:28,519 --> 00:38:31,679
a true crime fan and I know
that you are. This moment you're about

414
00:38:31,679 --> 00:38:37,320
to hear this doesn't happen very often. I call it a Matt Locke moment.

415
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:40,239
If you ever watched the old seventies
TV show I think it was seventies.

416
00:38:40,559 --> 00:38:45,880
Anyway, if you ever watched Matt
Locke, there's that got you a

417
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:51,519
moment where he just pulls out of
nowhere, this aha moment that comes from

418
00:38:51,599 --> 00:38:58,800
the criminal just talking and talking themselves
into a trap. It really doesn't happen

419
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:01,360
very often. It's kind of like
a movie or TV show thing, so

420
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:07,079
it's pretty fascinating to hear it in
real life. Check it out. You

421
00:39:07,159 --> 00:39:14,440
guys are sitting here telling me that
there's anybody in this freezer that I did

422
00:39:14,519 --> 00:39:20,039
not bring to Kenny's house house.
You just told me it was in King's

423
00:39:20,079 --> 00:39:27,639
basement, in King's house whatever I
mean. I'm as saying, well,

424
00:39:30,559 --> 00:39:37,119
okay, Well, here's the thing, how did I know that? It's

425
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:42,159
common knowledge? I know what Henny's
house looks like. Obviously the cops weren't

426
00:39:42,199 --> 00:39:46,719
buying what Katrina was selling, but
even after several hours of interrogation, she

427
00:39:47,079 --> 00:39:53,719
simply wouldn't admit to anything. Eventually, detectives decided to just arrest her.

428
00:39:54,679 --> 00:39:58,320
I'm afraid to say anything about because
I don't know what you're going to try

429
00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:00,239
to use against me. Now tell
me that you don't know nothing about that.

430
00:40:00,559 --> 00:40:07,360
I don't know anything about that.
Take your chances. I'm telling you

431
00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:13,840
totally understand you right, good enough, Have a seat there, We'll be

432
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:20,400
right back. Hold on, no, no, hold on? No fuck

433
00:40:20,639 --> 00:40:27,800
that? What? Wow? What
the fuck? Man? Mom? They're

434
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:30,599
trying to get me for something.
I need th me do it? What's

435
00:40:30,639 --> 00:40:35,559
wrong? Oh yeah? I forgot
to mention that while Katrina was being interrogated,

436
00:40:36,199 --> 00:40:42,199
her mom was sitting outside the interview
room babysitting Katrina's two children. Could

437
00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:45,440
you hold your foot out straight like
this? Please? My foot? Why

438
00:40:47,119 --> 00:40:52,400
you're not a recipe for what?
I'm not? Just anywhere? Can I?

439
00:40:52,639 --> 00:40:58,920
Can? I speak too? Permanent? What the fuck, dude?

440
00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:09,320
Are you serious for you? Ma? Hell? No? Man, Ma,

441
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:22,559
mom me love? Fuck man?
What the fuck? Ma? No

442
00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:30,599
fuck there? Tell me there's a
body of freeze on there. Katrina sat

443
00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:37,639
in her interview room with her ankle
cuffed to a table as she mindlessly screamed

444
00:41:37,639 --> 00:41:43,239
at her mom. Meanwhile, detectives
went to another interview room and questioned her

445
00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:52,360
boyfriend Martua. The last time you
saw sen was when enough, like the

446
00:41:52,519 --> 00:41:59,480
end of February. You have no
idea what we came over. I did

447
00:41:59,599 --> 00:42:04,719
not. I've said this to everybody. People who know you said this,

448
00:42:05,079 --> 00:42:07,039
that you burned things up. Now
I have people that know you saying you

449
00:42:07,159 --> 00:42:09,280
brought a freezer to your house.
When they opened it up, kiss,

450
00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:14,800
what they found? What did they
find? Why do you think you're here?

451
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:22,000
The charges abusive a corpse? Excuse
me, abusive a corpse? Are

452
00:42:22,039 --> 00:42:30,960
you mean serious right now? On
that man? Yeah? Absolutely the fuck

453
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:38,960
not. Unlike Katrina or Truro denied
having any knowledge of Shannon's whereabouts, but

454
00:42:39,079 --> 00:42:44,360
he also took things a step further
and denied ever bringing a freezer to his

455
00:42:44,519 --> 00:42:51,119
friend's house. This is so long
job. You're gonna lose your job.

456
00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:55,199
Did you hear what I said the
same about your out back dishwasher job anymore?

457
00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:59,199
Dude, there's a body in a
freezer. I think I said you

458
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:04,199
brought house. Yeah, your dishwasher
job at I'm back is fucked Okay,

459
00:43:06,039 --> 00:43:10,440
that's that's a weird thing for you
to say my jobs fucked up. If

460
00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:16,519
you're trying to tell me all the
supposedly went to this house and supposedly put

461
00:43:16,599 --> 00:43:22,679
this thing in this guy's house.
This is fucking insanity to me. It

462
00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:27,679
really is so I'm trying to figure
out where something might have, like I'm

463
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:30,000
telling you, might have went wrong. I'm telling you that four people who

464
00:43:30,079 --> 00:43:35,360
know you said you burned your ship
up, and now two people who know

465
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:37,960
you said you brought a freezer with
a body in into the house, and

466
00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:43,079
you're talking to me about your dishwasher
job. It's impossible because I didn't do

467
00:43:43,159 --> 00:43:46,360
no such thing. Okay, I
don't do nothing but work and sleep.

468
00:43:46,559 --> 00:43:51,840
Did you, at any point take
a freezer into a house in camel did

469
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:58,320
not? You did not. Marturo's
interview only lasted for about twenty minutes before

470
00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:02,440
he asked for a lawyer, but
the takeaway was that Arturo denied everything.

471
00:44:04,599 --> 00:44:08,480
Unfortunately for him, he was going
to have a hard time maintaining his denials

472
00:44:08,519 --> 00:44:15,239
because the cops found something very interesting
when they emptied his pockets. Arturo completely

473
00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:20,360
denied any knowledge of any of this, even though at the time of his

474
00:44:20,519 --> 00:44:23,960
arrest we found it to be in
possession of the key that unlocked the padlock

475
00:44:24,199 --> 00:44:30,159
that was on the freezer. Arturo
was arrested and at that point his only

476
00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:38,079
charge was abuse of a corpse,
with eyewitnessed statements and some pretty solid physical

477
00:44:38,159 --> 00:44:46,480
evidence detectives could prove that Arturo had
burned Shannon's belongings and transported some of her

478
00:44:46,559 --> 00:44:52,920
body parts from one location to another, but there were still a lot of

479
00:44:53,039 --> 00:45:00,800
questions like how did Shannon die,
who killed her? And why? Also,

480
00:45:01,559 --> 00:45:07,039
Arturo and Katrina didn't buy the chest
freezer until July, which was five

481
00:45:07,159 --> 00:45:14,559
months after Shannon went missing. Where
had Katrina and Arturo been storing her body

482
00:45:15,519 --> 00:45:19,639
this entire time? The cops were
not going to be able to get any

483
00:45:19,719 --> 00:45:27,440
answers from Arturo because he lawyered up
immediately. Katrina, however, was still

484
00:45:27,519 --> 00:45:32,039
willing to try and talk her way
out of the situation. The problem,

485
00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:37,159
the problem, what's wrong with you? Why can't you just stop all this

486
00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:40,639
bullshit? And because I'm trying to
tell you that I tell us what Anthony

487
00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:46,039
did. I tell us what he
did, and you didn't because right now,

488
00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:51,920
no, I I didn't do anything. Do you know what this looked

489
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:54,559
like? Yeah? I know what
it looks such obviously let me let me

490
00:45:54,599 --> 00:45:59,000
put it this way. Okay,
here's Anthony. He's got you over here,

491
00:45:59,039 --> 00:46:04,480
and what do you have that that
she's got? What she got?

492
00:46:05,719 --> 00:46:10,239
Piece of asked? He's getting everything? He wants why would he kill anybody?

493
00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:15,000
He didn't buy a freezer you did. He didn't rent an apartment over

494
00:46:15,039 --> 00:46:20,920
there you did. I didn't think
ship to that girls a dead girl.

495
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:29,119
Okay. Detectives knew, or at
least strongly suspected, that Arturo and Katrina

496
00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:34,840
had murdered Shannon, and whoever didn't
commit the crime, helped the other clean

497
00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:43,159
up the mess. Detective Lambert had
a hunch that Katrina was the killer because

498
00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:47,840
Arturo didn't really seem to have a
motive, But again, there were still

499
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:52,360
a lot of questions. Where were
you guys keeping this body? I didn't

500
00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:57,719
keep about anywhere. Well, it's
been there a while, and you didn't

501
00:46:57,719 --> 00:47:00,880
buy a freezer un till July,
so I had to be where the hell

502
00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:06,840
are you giving this bania? You're
obviously gonna have to ask him because I

503
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:12,880
didn't know about. During her interviews, Katrina never admitted to anything. She

504
00:47:13,079 --> 00:47:17,280
maintained that she didn't murder Shannon,
and she also never pointed the finger at

505
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:24,079
our Turo. Unfortunately, these interviews
with Katrina and Arturo gave the cops almost

506
00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:29,360
nothing to work with. You understand, this looks like you did it,

507
00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:34,119
and he helped you. I know, that's what it looks like. On

508
00:47:34,239 --> 00:47:37,559
top of any other dand things she
did to you. She was fucking your

509
00:47:37,599 --> 00:47:43,920
boyfriend. It's not complicated, it's
real simple. She took what was yours,

510
00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:47,800
She screwed your boyfriend. Then she
disappeared, and now you got all

511
00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:52,760
her shit and she's in your freezer
that he says you don't know nothing about.

512
00:47:53,719 --> 00:47:57,719
Just tell me what happened. It's
got to be better than what it

513
00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:00,760
looks. It can't be as bad
as it looks. I mean, I

514
00:48:00,840 --> 00:48:06,519
didn't. You cannot be as bad
as it looks. Kennon, I don't

515
00:48:06,679 --> 00:48:12,119
know anymore. On top of the
obvious questions of who killed Shannon Graves,

516
00:48:12,960 --> 00:48:19,239
there was also something else that was
bothering detectives. The freezer that our Turo

517
00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:23,800
had moved into his friend's basement only
contained Shannon's arms, legs, and a

518
00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:31,320
small piece of her head. So
where was the rest of her What had

519
00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:38,400
our Turo and Katrina done with Shannon's
torso and the remainder of her head.

520
00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:46,719
When Detective Michael Lambert learned the answers
to these questions, he realized that he

521
00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:53,719
was right about something. Things weren't
as bad as they seemed, they were

522
00:48:53,880 --> 00:49:10,800
much worse. If you've listened to
even just a little bit of this program,

523
00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:15,400
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524
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our mental health. Having a consistent
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525
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did you know that poor sleep can
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526
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and lower productivity. And that's Sleeping
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527
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528
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today. In July of twenty seventeen, thirty one year old self proclaimed rap

546
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:30,360
artist Arturo Novoa was arrested after his
ex girlfriend's dismembered body parts were found inside

547
00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:37,360
a freezer that Arturo had moved into
a friend's basement. Also arrested was thirty

548
00:51:37,400 --> 00:51:42,800
four year old Katrina Leyton, who
ur Turo had dated on and off for

549
00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:46,880
about nine years. At the time
of their arrest, they were back together.

550
00:51:49,119 --> 00:51:54,599
The body parts that were discovered belonged
to twenty eight year old Shannon Graves,

551
00:51:55,400 --> 00:52:00,639
who went missing in Youngstown, Ohio, five months before pieces of her

552
00:52:00,519 --> 00:52:06,880
were found inside this freezer. Shannon
dated Arturo for less than a year,

553
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:12,159
and at the time of her disappearance, they were both living in Shannon's apartment.

554
00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:17,599
After Shannon went missing, Katrina Layton
moved in to that same apartment.

555
00:52:19,960 --> 00:52:28,159
Homicide detectives in Youngstown believed that Arturo
and or Katrina murdered Shannon, but during

556
00:52:28,199 --> 00:52:34,800
their respective interrogations, neither of them
confessed or pointed the finger at the other.

557
00:52:36,119 --> 00:52:40,199
At this point, the evidence that
the cops had only proved Katrina purchased

558
00:52:40,280 --> 00:52:46,320
the freezer and Arturo moved it.
At best, this couple could only be

559
00:52:46,480 --> 00:52:52,719
charged with tampering with evidence and abuse
of a corpse here, So we've got

560
00:52:52,840 --> 00:52:58,239
to find out. Yeah, we've
better find out where she was killed,

561
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:02,519
how she was killed, Where was
the body dismembered? Right, it has

562
00:53:02,599 --> 00:53:06,039
to be somewhere. Where was it? Story for foremost? Yeah, do

563
00:53:06,119 --> 00:53:09,719
you and I know, Hey,
they probably killed the week. We don't

564
00:53:09,719 --> 00:53:15,559
have enough to even make that allegation
yet, you right, And as far

565
00:53:15,639 --> 00:53:21,239
as a motive was concerned, Katrina
Layton had a good one and it was

566
00:53:21,360 --> 00:53:28,039
pretty simple. According to our friends, Katrina and Our Turo argued constantly when

567
00:53:28,079 --> 00:53:32,559
they were dating. Usually it was
because Katrina suspected that our Turo was being

568
00:53:32,800 --> 00:53:40,119
unfaithful, and to be fair,
he often was. Then after they broke

569
00:53:40,239 --> 00:53:49,599
up and our Turo began dating Shannon
Graves, Katrina became enraged. And there's

570
00:53:49,679 --> 00:53:54,320
nothing worse than someone named Katrina being
enraged, take my word for it.

571
00:53:54,719 --> 00:53:58,400
And then other than actually only came
over in there and they were fighting,

572
00:53:58,440 --> 00:54:00,639
and it was bad. It was
real that, I mean, I have

573
00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:07,000
a man. She always thought he
was cheating on her somebody, And there

574
00:54:07,039 --> 00:54:14,480
were times I just couldn't listen to
Trina anymore about Arturo, could not do

575
00:54:14,599 --> 00:54:20,360
it. Like no, she was
obsessed with him, dude, I mean

576
00:54:20,440 --> 00:54:30,639
mad and like I mean her disdain
for Shannon's. In short, if Katrina

577
00:54:30,800 --> 00:54:38,639
murdered Shannon, her motive was likely
jealousy. As for Arturo, Detective Michael

578
00:54:38,679 --> 00:54:45,280
Lambert wasn't sure if he had a
motive. One of the things that was

579
00:54:45,400 --> 00:54:50,639
in my mind during the entire case
was the fact that Arturo had both of

580
00:54:50,679 --> 00:54:57,000
these women. He had Shannon providing
money, a place to live, a

581
00:54:57,119 --> 00:55:02,760
car, pretty much everything he wanted, and he also had Katrina providing whatever

582
00:55:02,880 --> 00:55:07,039
Shannon wasn't giving him. On top
of that, both women knew about each

583
00:55:07,079 --> 00:55:13,440
other, so this wasn't a secret. So at no point did I really

584
00:55:13,559 --> 00:55:22,400
believe that Arturo had the better motive
between him and Katrina. Even though Katrina

585
00:55:22,599 --> 00:55:29,159
had a motive and she and Arturo
were clearly responsible for or involved with Shannon's

586
00:55:29,199 --> 00:55:36,440
murder and dismemberment, prosecutors in Ohio
did what prosecutors normally do. They offered

587
00:55:36,440 --> 00:55:40,400
a plea deal to the woman so
that they could have a stronger case against

588
00:55:40,559 --> 00:55:46,880
the man, because you know equality. After the arrest of Arturo Nova and

589
00:55:46,960 --> 00:55:53,639
Katrina Layton, the prosecutor's office entered
into a deal with Katrina Layton, thinking

590
00:55:53,800 --> 00:56:00,679
that she had the least amount of
culpability in the case and could provide damaging

591
00:56:00,760 --> 00:56:08,400
testimony against Arturo. As a result
of Katrina's deal, she would received no

592
00:56:08,760 --> 00:56:16,440
jail time for cooperation, which includes
testimony against Arturo in the case. Shannon's

593
00:56:16,519 --> 00:56:23,239
family did not react well to this
deal, and they immediately began raising alarms

594
00:56:23,360 --> 00:56:29,400
that it was their belief that Katrina
had as much to do with Shannon's death

595
00:56:29,599 --> 00:56:35,880
as Arturo did. I cannot explain
why the deal was made because I wasn't

596
00:56:35,920 --> 00:56:42,159
part of it. My assumption would
be that after the prosecutor assessed what we

597
00:56:42,360 --> 00:56:49,639
gave them, the actual murder case
was still very circumstantial, and without the

598
00:56:49,719 --> 00:56:54,679
push of a cooperating witness, all
we really had was a tampering with evidence

599
00:56:54,719 --> 00:57:00,440
case. Katrina's defense attorney worked out
a pretty incredible deal on her behalf.

600
00:57:01,559 --> 00:57:10,119
She was given complete immunity from prosecution. Yeah, complete immunity. The only

601
00:57:10,239 --> 00:57:16,440
requirements were that she testified against our
Turo and that she be completely honest.

602
00:57:17,679 --> 00:57:22,079
So in the latter half of twenty
eighteen, Katrina and her defense attorney met

603
00:57:22,159 --> 00:57:30,400
with prosecutors several times to discuss the
murder of Shannon Graves. According to Katrina,

604
00:57:30,559 --> 00:57:36,119
on an evening in late February twenty
seventeen, she was at home with

605
00:57:36,239 --> 00:57:42,480
her two children when she unexpectedly received
a phone call from Arturo. Again,

606
00:57:43,199 --> 00:57:47,440
it's important to remember that Arturo is
sometimes referred to as Anthony. So Anthony

607
00:57:47,519 --> 00:57:52,920
calls you hysterical on the phone,
Tommy, Shannon's dead, right, yeap?

608
00:57:52,719 --> 00:58:00,159
And but an hour later, who's
at your house? Well, I'm

609
00:58:00,199 --> 00:58:04,199
kinished? So what he said when
he gets in the house. I don't

610
00:58:04,239 --> 00:58:07,320
remember exactly like how the conversation went, but I found out that she was

611
00:58:07,360 --> 00:58:13,119
in the shrunk of the call.
Katrina explained that when Arturo arrived at her

612
00:58:13,159 --> 00:58:17,480
house, he had Shannon's dead body
in the trunk of Shannon's car, and

613
00:58:17,599 --> 00:58:23,000
the two of them decided to move
Shannon into Katrina's garage. So who got

614
00:58:23,039 --> 00:58:28,400
it out of the trunk? He
got out, okay, and what happened

615
00:58:28,400 --> 00:58:32,639
after that? Now she's out.
At that point I realized, you know,

616
00:58:32,880 --> 00:58:38,159
I couldn't I can't lift her.
I was already freaking out. You

617
00:58:38,239 --> 00:58:44,800
know. That's when I called Andrew. Remember Andrew Herman, the guy that

618
00:58:44,960 --> 00:58:50,760
helped Arturo burn Shannon's belongings. Well, according to Katrina, Andrew did a

619
00:58:50,800 --> 00:58:55,320
lot more than just burn some property. Katrina explained that after Shannon's corpse was

620
00:58:55,400 --> 00:59:00,400
laid out in her garage, she
called Andrew and told him to come over

621
00:59:00,480 --> 00:59:06,800
when he got there or Turo led
Andrew into the garage while Katrina went into

622
00:59:07,199 --> 00:59:12,960
her house. Katrina claimed that she
didn't know what went on inside the garage,

623
00:59:13,079 --> 00:59:16,639
but she did eventually see Andrew leave. Nothing. Really, I don't

624
00:59:16,679 --> 00:59:21,239
even think Andrew was there that long. After they came back in the house.

625
00:59:21,320 --> 00:59:23,960
I think he left, okay,
but I know he didn't stay all

626
00:59:24,079 --> 00:59:30,679
night. I know that he left. And what happens me he laid down

627
00:59:31,280 --> 00:59:38,360
who was upset so laying in bed
together. After Katrina named Andrew Herman,

628
00:59:39,159 --> 00:59:45,639
investigators began looking into the kind of
person that Andrew was. What they found

629
00:59:46,760 --> 00:59:53,760
seemed to substantiate what Katrina had told
them. Like our Turoll, Andrew was

630
00:59:53,880 --> 01:00:02,320
an amateur want to be rap artist
and had made a bunch of disturbing recordings

631
01:00:02,559 --> 01:00:09,480
that were obsessed with death and the
occult and all things weird. Really,

632
01:00:10,800 --> 01:00:15,400
like I make his music, it's
all dark, weird shit, you know.

633
01:00:17,000 --> 01:00:21,400
Like I used to make his music. I used to make Andrew's music

634
01:00:21,480 --> 01:00:23,360
for him, like I would record
it, do all that. It was

635
01:00:23,480 --> 01:00:28,880
just always like real dark stuff,
you know what I mean. Like even

636
01:00:29,280 --> 01:00:36,119
even the rap name he goes by
a strange it's dead Necrophiliac Assassin. I

637
01:00:36,280 --> 01:00:39,960
made him go by DNA because that
was weird. Like he's always been a

638
01:00:40,960 --> 01:00:45,159
weird dude. But I always just
thought it was just a gimmick for the

639
01:00:45,280 --> 01:00:50,199
music thing, you know what I
mean. It turned out that Andrew's interest

640
01:00:50,679 --> 01:00:57,440
in dead bodies wasn't a gimmick.
Apparently Andrew had a thing for cold and

641
01:00:57,599 --> 01:01:04,199
dismembered corpses. Tho he has videos
of people having sex with dead bodies on

642
01:01:04,280 --> 01:01:08,880
his phone. One body is famous? Oh him have sex? Are people?

643
01:01:09,599 --> 01:01:15,320
Okay? Andrew was eventually confronted with
the accusation that he assisted in the

644
01:01:15,440 --> 01:01:23,239
disposal of Shannon's corpse, and he
denied it. We believe Anthony and Katrina

645
01:01:24,400 --> 01:01:30,719
and possibly you were involved in killing
Shannon. Andrew, what else do you

646
01:01:30,800 --> 01:01:36,880
know about this? Because right now
I don't think there's anybody on the planet

647
01:01:36,960 --> 01:01:39,000
who thinks you don't know more about
this. I don't know anything else.

648
01:01:39,480 --> 01:01:45,760
I told you what happened. Despite
Andrew's denial, Katrina maintained her story and

649
01:01:45,840 --> 01:01:52,480
insisted that Andrew assisted Arturo in some
way, though she wasn't sure how and

650
01:01:52,599 --> 01:01:59,400
she didn't know what happened to Shannon's
body. After Andrew's intervention. A few

651
01:01:59,440 --> 01:02:04,840
days later, Katrina moved into Shannon's
apartment with our Turo and eventually discovered that

652
01:02:05,079 --> 01:02:09,880
Shannon's dismembered body was in the apartment. When I saw it, it was

653
01:02:10,559 --> 01:02:19,119
on the floor next to the toilet. One day. Now there was two,

654
01:02:19,880 --> 01:02:25,880
but you never looked in the bad
Yeah. That was after we asked

655
01:02:27,840 --> 01:02:31,159
if you didn't catch that, Katrina
just said after we poured the acid.

656
01:02:32,320 --> 01:02:37,320
At some point, Katrina and our
Turo decided to go full breaking bad with

657
01:02:37,519 --> 01:02:43,599
Shannon's body. If you're not familiar, which by the way, by now

658
01:02:43,679 --> 01:02:46,360
you should be, it's probably one
of the best shows ever made. In

659
01:02:46,480 --> 01:02:52,320
any case, the main characters on
that show often use acid filled barrels to

660
01:02:52,480 --> 01:02:58,800
dissolve and hide dead bodies. So
whose ideas that we really acid has come

661
01:02:59,000 --> 01:03:07,599
up? And would say, hey, anthem, that's some acid up.

662
01:03:08,119 --> 01:03:15,599
What was that discussion about? It
wasn't really discussion. I just I don't

663
01:03:15,599 --> 01:03:20,400
remember what. I realized that she
was in the back room and that there

664
01:03:20,519 --> 01:03:24,760
was still a pop. It should
be noted that Katrina did not come forward

665
01:03:25,199 --> 01:03:31,440
and admit that she and Arturo made
plans to dissolve Shannon's body an acid before

666
01:03:31,519 --> 01:03:37,159
Katrina agreed to cooperate. The cops
figured this out on their own. During

667
01:03:37,280 --> 01:03:44,519
the resulting media coverage from the arrest
of Our Tureau and Katrina, we received

668
01:03:44,519 --> 01:03:50,079
a call from a local Walmart from
a cleric who recognized the pair because they

669
01:03:50,199 --> 01:03:58,800
had purchased online a large amount of
sulfuric acid drain opener. Anyway, Yes,

670
01:03:58,840 --> 01:04:01,800
sir, he made some kind of
internet order. Yes, all of

671
01:04:01,880 --> 01:04:05,639
the items that he or were in. What were those items? They were

672
01:04:06,079 --> 01:04:10,840
bottles of sephuric acid. No,
you said, They came in on a

673
01:04:10,920 --> 01:04:15,519
tenth both of them and her both
They give me a word. I type

674
01:04:15,559 --> 01:04:19,119
it in and it comes up,
and I instantly knew, like, I

675
01:04:19,199 --> 01:04:23,639
can't give this to you. So
I explained to him. I said,

676
01:04:23,679 --> 01:04:27,960
I apologize, but I know your
name is not chicken Man. For obvious

677
01:04:28,599 --> 01:04:34,119
reasons. When Katrina and Arturo placed
their walmarked order for sulfuric acid, they

678
01:04:34,199 --> 01:04:39,840
didn't want to use their real names, so in their infinite wisdom, they

679
01:04:39,960 --> 01:04:44,880
decided to use an alias. It
was just addressed to Chicken Man. So

680
01:04:44,960 --> 01:04:46,079
a guy walks in the Walmart says, Hey, I'm chicken Man. He

681
01:04:46,159 --> 01:04:58,119
got the package for me, kid, I can't make it. That's the

682
01:04:58,199 --> 01:05:02,000
correct response. By the way,
When Katrina and our Turo went to Walmart

683
01:05:02,119 --> 01:05:08,199
to pick up the acid, the
sales clerk gave them a hard time about

684
01:05:08,519 --> 01:05:12,239
the name that they used, but
eventually they got it all worked out.

685
01:05:12,280 --> 01:05:15,920
And Katrina and ur Turro walked out
of the store with their twelve gallons of

686
01:05:16,000 --> 01:05:21,519
sulfuric acid. What is it with
Walmart and murder? Don't you know what?

687
01:05:21,559 --> 01:05:26,840
They got cameras there? Okay,
so the day you do the assid

688
01:05:27,320 --> 01:05:30,519
there's a plastic toad. Yes,
and we're putting punts into the top.

689
01:05:30,800 --> 01:05:38,039
Yeah, it was her head and
like the two like arm, his whole

690
01:05:38,119 --> 01:05:43,559
middle part, no legs, now
head, whole head. Yes, Now

691
01:05:43,639 --> 01:05:50,039
you got this tube plastic container full
of sham. Yeah. Uh, what

692
01:05:50,199 --> 01:05:58,440
happens next? I don't remember hacking
like right away, Like it wasn't proof

693
01:05:58,599 --> 01:06:01,000
like in the curtains, right.
I think it took a little bit.

694
01:06:02,320 --> 01:06:08,519
Maybe in the end of of the
sludgy bunch of shit there my own Katrina

695
01:06:08,639 --> 01:06:14,519
explained that they let Shannon's torso and
a good chunk of her head dissolve in

696
01:06:14,639 --> 01:06:21,199
acid for about a week. Then
our Turro incrementally disposed of the resulting human

697
01:06:21,360 --> 01:06:26,840
sludge. So he told you he
took it and dumped it off on somewhere

698
01:06:26,840 --> 01:06:30,400
off lung with habit. Yeah,
and how far did you live in a

699
01:06:31,360 --> 01:06:38,960
far right? And the under the
legs are somewhere and as we now know

700
01:06:39,000 --> 01:06:41,719
because you saw the picture. They're
still in one piece, so there's no

701
01:06:41,840 --> 01:06:45,639
way they make it. So there's
somewhere in there somewhere frows. Yeah,

702
01:06:45,760 --> 01:06:50,360
that's what. I can't help you, guys, because I know that they

703
01:06:50,400 --> 01:06:56,199
were back there and then there were
on the other frazon. According to Katrina,

704
01:06:56,360 --> 01:07:00,360
she and our Turo didn't have enough
acid to this all of Shannon's entire

705
01:07:00,480 --> 01:07:05,079
body, and they were still stuck
with her arms, her legs, and

706
01:07:05,199 --> 01:07:12,280
a piece of her head. Katrina
claimed that Arturo stored these body parts somewhere,

707
01:07:13,079 --> 01:07:16,239
but she didn't know where until they
ended up in the chest freezer that

708
01:07:16,360 --> 01:07:23,840
the couple purchased months later. There
were a lot of gaps in Katrina's story,

709
01:07:23,960 --> 01:07:29,559
and prosecutors were hoping that Arturo's friend
Andrew Herman could fill them in,

710
01:07:30,119 --> 01:07:38,239
so, based on Katrina's statements,
Andrew was arrested. Andrew was eventually indicted

711
01:07:38,519 --> 01:07:44,960
for his role in the case when
Katrina revealed to us that Andrew had a

712
01:07:45,039 --> 01:07:50,079
lot to do with the dismemberment.
Once he was arrested and charged, he

713
01:07:50,320 --> 01:08:00,239
immediately became a cooperator and gave us
as much information as he had. Drew

714
01:08:00,320 --> 01:08:06,039
agreed to cooperate. He gave the
prosecutors and investigators his version of the events.

715
01:08:08,480 --> 01:08:14,039
According to Andrew, on a cold
night in late February of twenty seventeen,

716
01:08:15,039 --> 01:08:19,960
Marturo contacted him and told him to
come to Katrina's house. Once there,

717
01:08:20,359 --> 01:08:27,880
Marturo led Andrew into Katrina's garage.
What happened to garage? He explained

718
01:08:27,880 --> 01:08:33,239
to me that he had a problem
that he really needed help with. He

719
01:08:33,319 --> 01:08:41,760
told me to pick up a para
garter's back and opened them up. I

720
01:08:41,880 --> 01:08:48,239
did. Happened to be Vody inside. Who was inside sham? He told

721
01:08:48,319 --> 01:08:55,560
me he needs my help to make
her smaller. He tell you how she

722
01:08:55,720 --> 01:09:00,600
does? No, but it was
pretty obvious. What'd you see? Her

723
01:09:00,640 --> 01:09:05,960
head was cute? That's what happened. After that, we just remembered,

724
01:09:08,840 --> 01:09:16,560
how'd you dismember anything? Machete?
So you used machete to chop the land

725
01:09:16,640 --> 01:09:21,640
though arms because it was easy.
Tried it on the legs, didn't work

726
01:09:21,640 --> 01:09:28,800
out so good, so switched to
the blade side, switched side sauside,

727
01:09:29,359 --> 01:09:31,520
and yeah, how much of this
blade is saft? The hold back,

728
01:09:31,720 --> 01:09:35,640
it's the whole so so basically you've
got bigger hands off, yes, yeah,

729
01:09:35,720 --> 01:09:39,159
so does it go right through it? No problem pretty much? Yeah,

730
01:09:39,560 --> 01:09:45,039
how about the neck, No,
it was rather easy saw or just

731
01:09:45,199 --> 01:09:51,399
chopped. Now that the authorities had
Andrew's cooperation, they didn't need Katrina's anymore,

732
01:09:53,199 --> 01:09:58,079
and frankly, she didn't really give
them anything useful anyway. She claimed

733
01:09:58,520 --> 01:10:04,000
she didn't witness Shannon's and that Arturo
never told Katrina how Shannon died, which

734
01:10:04,479 --> 01:10:12,319
was pretty unlikely and also completely unbelievable. So here's what you want these police

735
01:10:12,479 --> 01:10:17,159
and prosecutors to believe. You had
this nine year relationship where you always seem

736
01:10:17,199 --> 01:10:21,000
to get back together, and he's
telling me everybody else on the planet how

737
01:10:21,039 --> 01:10:27,159
he killed Sharon. But you,
yeah, that I do wonder because really,

738
01:10:27,720 --> 01:10:30,359
no, he shows up with an
audience and you don't see what the

739
01:10:30,439 --> 01:10:34,000
fun happens. I've never had a
client take a deal where I've had to

740
01:10:34,039 --> 01:10:36,720
work this hard to get them.
I mean, this is ridigulously. I've

741
01:10:36,760 --> 01:10:42,399
never been in trouble like this year. I've never had another client be so

742
01:10:42,800 --> 01:10:46,439
stupid that for five meetings they would
deny, deny, deny, and then

743
01:10:46,800 --> 01:10:49,199
oh yeah and smart and say,
well, I didn't want to get in

744
01:10:49,279 --> 01:10:53,880
trouble have to repeat a meeting,
told there's nothing you could say that you're

745
01:10:53,880 --> 01:10:58,319
going to get in trouble about,
okay, So the only thing that jeopardizes

746
01:10:58,359 --> 01:11:03,720
your deal is you not yourself and
not concerned you're going to hang yourself.

747
01:11:04,680 --> 01:11:11,960
In the end, Katrina did hang
herself, and prosecutors were able to convince

748
01:11:12,000 --> 01:11:17,199
a judge that Katrina Layton was still
lying. In this case, Katrina absolutely

749
01:11:17,359 --> 01:11:21,399
had to get out of the jail
free card. She could have said anything

750
01:11:21,720 --> 01:11:27,960
up to an including that she actually
killed Shannon, and nothing could have happened

751
01:11:28,000 --> 01:11:31,439
to her as a result. The
only way she could have blown this is

752
01:11:31,920 --> 01:11:38,800
the way she did by telling provable
lies to us. As a result of

753
01:11:38,840 --> 01:11:44,079
that, she faced the full brunt
of the case, just like Arturo did.

754
01:11:45,479 --> 01:11:50,079
Eventually, Arturo made the decision to
plead guilty in this case, and

755
01:11:50,880 --> 01:11:56,880
during his plea, he had the
opportunity, as did Katrina early on,

756
01:11:57,119 --> 01:12:01,680
to just tell the truth. Because
his few sure was sealed, Arturo knew

757
01:12:01,760 --> 01:12:08,119
that one way or another he was
going down for Shannon's murder, so he

758
01:12:08,239 --> 01:12:13,880
decided to also accept a plea.
When Arturo sat down with prosecutors, he

759
01:12:14,000 --> 01:12:17,840
explained his side of the story.
According to him. On February twenty fifth,

760
01:12:18,039 --> 01:12:24,960
twenty seventeen, he was at Shannon's
apartment, which was also his apartment

761
01:12:25,000 --> 01:12:30,000
because Shannon let him live there.
That night, he got into an argument

762
01:12:30,039 --> 01:12:34,279
with Shannon shortly before she left for
work. In order to calm himself down,

763
01:12:35,159 --> 01:12:41,279
Arturo decided to walk to a local
bar and have some drinks. While

764
01:12:41,359 --> 01:12:45,800
there, he also decided to call
Katrina, and, thinking that Shannon would

765
01:12:45,800 --> 01:12:50,399
be working all night, and being
the degenerate scumbag that he is, he

766
01:12:50,479 --> 01:12:58,600
invited Katrina to Shannon's apartment. It
was basically just Channa, a few dreams,

767
01:13:00,279 --> 01:13:02,479
chill out. I called Shane for
a little nightcap and I told her,

768
01:13:02,720 --> 01:13:06,239
you know, a lacture she would
like to come by. She agreed,

769
01:13:08,319 --> 01:13:12,359
she came over. I left the
back door over her so when she

770
01:13:12,439 --> 01:13:14,800
gets here she can just go in. Because I was still at the bar,

771
01:13:15,319 --> 01:13:17,279
I told her, you know,
just going and make yourself at home

772
01:13:17,319 --> 01:13:23,520
and to get there. Arturo agreed
to meet Katrina at Shannon's apartment, but

773
01:13:24,479 --> 01:13:30,920
when he got there, he saw
that Shannon's car was parked outside, presumably

774
01:13:30,079 --> 01:13:35,319
Shannon had come home early. Something
to note here is that Arturo refers to

775
01:13:35,439 --> 01:13:41,279
Shannon by her nickname Star. I
scared the shit out of me because I

776
01:13:41,359 --> 01:13:45,600
knew either Chrina was there or she
was about to be there. I went

777
01:13:45,640 --> 01:13:47,479
to the house. As soon as
I got to the door, I already

778
01:13:47,840 --> 01:13:53,319
heard her commotion. The dog was
barking on crazy, a bunch of yelling

779
01:13:53,399 --> 01:13:58,560
and screaming and shit and noise.
I walked in the house. I was

780
01:13:58,680 --> 01:14:03,319
swinging, grabbing hair. Shannon goes
over. She's in the living room.

781
01:14:04,159 --> 01:14:09,199
There's a part of the room where
I keep all my tools. She grabbed

782
01:14:09,239 --> 01:14:13,520
the hammer and she hits started with
the hammer. I think, just an

783
01:14:13,760 --> 01:14:16,680
ing of moment, you know what
I mean. She she grabbed a hammer.

784
01:14:17,000 --> 01:14:21,119
She grabbed the hammer that was sitting
next to hers. According to Arturo,

785
01:14:21,880 --> 01:14:29,039
he witnessed Katrina murder Shannon by hitting
her in the head several times with

786
01:14:29,119 --> 01:14:33,520
a claw hammer, after which he
and Katrina started the very, very long

787
01:14:33,640 --> 01:14:39,239
process of trying to cover up this
murder. We dragged it all the way

788
01:14:39,279 --> 01:14:44,800
to the path. And how'd you
clean the blood up? Which? How

789
01:14:44,880 --> 01:14:49,439
much blood was it? She's eating
pretty bad. She dragged her the bathroom

790
01:14:49,479 --> 01:14:57,279
and put her in the bathtub,
clothes on, clothes off. He shaved

791
01:14:57,279 --> 01:15:01,640
her head. Why'd you shave her
head? It? I don't know what

792
01:15:01,760 --> 01:15:04,399
to do at the time, so
I was just trying to figure out a

793
01:15:04,399 --> 01:15:10,279
way to cover it up. Eventually, our Turo and Katrina moved Shannon into

794
01:15:10,359 --> 01:15:15,439
the trunk of Shannon's car and drove
to Katrina's house. When I don't get

795
01:15:15,479 --> 01:15:25,199
over there it was really cold out
and suggests that I should call and who's

796
01:15:25,840 --> 01:15:33,960
who's searching for on Trina's phone?
For fifty five gallon tots and bings and

797
01:15:34,199 --> 01:15:41,640
why is she searching for that?
She had this crazy idea that if we

798
01:15:43,079 --> 01:15:49,319
got rid of the body completely,
boord some acid on that. According to

799
01:15:49,520 --> 01:15:57,239
our Turo, Katrina was committed to
dissolving Shannon's body and acid while she was

800
01:15:57,319 --> 01:16:01,279
googling the best kind of barrels and
bins to do this with, because that's

801
01:16:01,319 --> 01:16:06,800
what you do when you're a dumb
murderer. Arturo called his friend Andrew Herman,

802
01:16:08,560 --> 01:16:15,479
who eventually arrived at the garage with
his machete. Then Andrew dismembered Shannon,

803
01:16:16,319 --> 01:16:23,800
while Arturo assisted tell us about how
she's dismembered. He was just grabbing

804
01:16:25,159 --> 01:16:30,920
you would hit her with the with
the the machete. Machete was like half

805
01:16:30,960 --> 01:16:34,399
a saw. Also they had like
teeth on the back of machet, so

806
01:16:34,600 --> 01:16:41,159
like every time it got caught,
you would and she got put in at

807
01:16:41,920 --> 01:16:48,840
who put in the toe? Katrina
and Arturo transported Shannon back to Shannon's apartment.

808
01:16:49,960 --> 01:16:55,680
A few days later. They poured
acid on her torso and the portion

809
01:16:55,840 --> 01:17:02,000
of her head that revealed the cause
of death. Upolated the body, ras

810
01:17:02,039 --> 01:17:06,159
and legs out of there and put
them in bags, and we lade her

811
01:17:06,239 --> 01:17:13,119
out with the bigger soap, and
wefore to ask that part of the body,

812
01:17:13,680 --> 01:17:21,319
the head. As for the remaining
body parts, Martro explained that they

813
01:17:21,640 --> 01:17:28,319
folded up Shannon's arms and legs and
kept them in Shannon's apartment freezer. She

814
01:17:28,479 --> 01:17:32,680
was in the freezer at the fridge
your house March, April, May and

815
01:17:32,840 --> 01:17:40,880
June for four months. That's kind
to be a big freezer. She sh

816
01:17:41,119 --> 01:17:43,800
just folded up. It was just
haunts and legs. It was just folded

817
01:17:43,960 --> 01:17:49,000
up. What do you guys thinking
you're living there? Right? He got

818
01:17:49,680 --> 01:17:54,640
arms and legs and a freezer in
your freezer and you got the rest of

819
01:17:54,680 --> 01:18:01,399
her in a toe soak it guys
talking about it what do you lock?

820
01:18:02,520 --> 01:18:09,079
Arturo, Katrina, and Katrina's two
children lived in Shannon's apartment for five months.

821
01:18:10,199 --> 01:18:16,600
Presumably Arturo and Katrina were sleeping together
on Shannon's bed. During this time.

822
01:18:18,000 --> 01:18:23,760
They were using her car, using
her cell phone, and using her

823
01:18:23,800 --> 01:18:31,760
welfare card, all the while some
of Shannon was crammed into the refrigerator freezer

824
01:18:32,800 --> 01:18:41,800
while the rest of her was dissolving
in acid. Truly a horror house.

825
01:18:42,680 --> 01:18:54,920
You just dissolved, Uh, the
google that used to be here by right

826
01:18:57,079 --> 01:19:01,119
foot in buckets and who drove we
on our way to pick up her kids

827
01:19:01,279 --> 01:19:05,399
or whatever whenever our kid would get
off the school. I can't remember her

828
01:19:05,520 --> 01:19:13,199
son and we were dumb. Well, the remains on the shoot called La

829
01:19:13,279 --> 01:19:20,000
Marstet. Imagine that conversation. Hey, honey, don't forget on our way

830
01:19:20,079 --> 01:19:24,560
back from picking up the kids,
we need to drop off some of the

831
01:19:24,960 --> 01:19:29,239
human sludge that we've been hiding in
the back room. Let's let's not forget

832
01:19:29,279 --> 01:19:31,840
that. It's kind of piling up
back there, and you know, we

833
01:19:31,880 --> 01:19:34,880
should probably get rid of some of
that, clean that out, do a

834
01:19:34,920 --> 01:19:40,520
little spring cleaning. You know,
maybe we can repurpose that space, you

835
01:19:40,560 --> 01:19:43,319
know, put some boxes back there, go down to the container store.

836
01:19:44,039 --> 01:19:48,399
Still got We ran a little money
follow after a while, especially when we

837
01:19:48,479 --> 01:19:54,520
had two apartments. So once once
we got full, we moved into the

838
01:19:54,600 --> 01:19:58,319
second apartment. We had plenty on
getting more last okay, so you were

839
01:19:58,359 --> 01:20:02,720
happy with how they asked for from
the part you did. Arturo and Katrina

840
01:20:03,079 --> 01:20:10,079
planned to dissolve the rest of Shannon
in acid, but they never got the

841
01:20:10,199 --> 01:20:15,960
chance after police came knocking on their
door and asking questions. Shannon was moved

842
01:20:16,439 --> 01:20:23,199
into a chest freezer and eventually found
herself in the basement of Arturo's friend's house.

843
01:20:24,479 --> 01:20:29,840
After that friend named Arturo, some
of the truth came out, but

844
01:20:30,119 --> 01:20:38,119
even to this day, nobody but
Katrina and our Turo no for sure who

845
01:20:38,479 --> 01:20:45,199
killed Shannon Graves. At this point, there is no proof positive one answered

846
01:20:45,239 --> 01:20:50,760
to who killed from Shannon Graves in
this case, though interestingly enough, it

847
01:20:50,880 --> 01:20:58,840
was Arturo who identified Katrina as the
killer, but Katrina never identified either of

848
01:20:58,880 --> 01:21:03,359
them as the killer, just claim
to not know Katrina killed Channon. Her

849
01:21:03,479 --> 01:21:11,239
motive was a simple love triangle motive
where she wanted Arturo ato himself. For

850
01:21:11,600 --> 01:21:16,640
the majority of the investigation, Detective
Lambert only saw a motive for Katrina,

851
01:21:17,720 --> 01:21:24,079
but as time went on, he
began to see that Arturo may have had

852
01:21:24,119 --> 01:21:27,960
a motive as well. You know, I felt about it. I never

853
01:21:28,039 --> 01:21:30,680
told you any different. You had
all the motive. I didn't see what

854
01:21:30,800 --> 01:21:34,319
his motive is. But now I'm
seeing a motive for him, and I'm

855
01:21:34,359 --> 01:21:40,000
seeing a motive that's actually getting a
little more twofold. It's not just about

856
01:21:40,359 --> 01:21:45,039
you and Shannon, It's about other
things too. What did Anthony do for

857
01:21:45,279 --> 01:21:53,640
money? Apparently Arturo had this mo
where he would use women to support himself.

858
01:21:54,800 --> 01:21:59,840
Judging by a current peripheral look at
society, he doesn't appear to be

859
01:21:59,880 --> 01:22:04,600
the only one. He did it
with Shannon and countless women before her,

860
01:22:05,600 --> 01:22:11,319
including Katrina. Katrina liked him.
She was I think she was just cool.

861
01:22:11,399 --> 01:22:15,760
She's just so hungry for love.
You know that she wanted some Mary

862
01:22:15,800 --> 01:22:20,439
to love her. She him at
the fucking bus station downtown. Okay,

863
01:22:20,920 --> 01:22:24,920
but you know he was homeless or
someone just got a jail or something.

864
01:22:24,960 --> 01:22:28,199
I don't even know. But he
end up moving at her house on Tremble

865
01:22:28,880 --> 01:22:31,439
because they were dating and not dating, dating and not dating to me,

866
01:22:31,600 --> 01:22:34,600
when he wanted something that they were
dating. Then when he did want something,

867
01:22:34,680 --> 01:22:39,520
they want dating whenever there was income
pastime, He's up her ass.

868
01:22:40,359 --> 01:22:44,800
She's a single mom, she's already
struggling, she's working two jobs, and

869
01:22:45,279 --> 01:22:48,319
you come in and you have no
problems, take money, taking the money,

870
01:22:48,399 --> 01:22:54,600
taking it from her mouse. Arturo
was a taker and a user,

871
01:22:55,640 --> 01:23:00,560
oh and also a liar. During
the time he was dating Shannon, he

872
01:23:00,760 --> 01:23:05,359
was still sleeping with Katrina. When
cops looked over his phone records and emails,

873
01:23:06,079 --> 01:23:11,720
they also discovered that he was carrying
on sexual relationships with at least three

874
01:23:11,920 --> 01:23:15,720
other women. Where do these people
even find the time to do this shit?

875
01:23:16,800 --> 01:23:19,359
I guess it must be a lot
easier when you don't have a job.

876
01:23:20,520 --> 01:23:25,760
In any case, it didn't take
Shannon long to recognize the kind of

877
01:23:25,920 --> 01:23:32,399
guy that Arturo was, so during
the investigation it became a parent that Shannon

878
01:23:32,560 --> 01:23:39,000
was on kind of a last chance
agreement with Arturo, and given the history

879
01:23:39,079 --> 01:23:43,680
of their relationship and Katrina's, eventually
this was going to end. So the

880
01:23:43,800 --> 01:23:49,960
best motive I could come up with
was that Arturo's use of Shannon to help

881
01:23:50,039 --> 01:23:55,439
himself was eventually going to run out, and this was his last chance to

882
01:23:55,479 --> 01:24:00,640
get what he could from her.
As mentioned before, Shannon Gray Waves worked

883
01:24:00,720 --> 01:24:04,800
as a stripper, but this was
a line of work that she wanted to

884
01:24:04,880 --> 01:24:13,279
get out of While dating Arturo,
Shannon attended and eventually graduated from cosmetology school,

885
01:24:14,159 --> 01:24:20,039
and she planned to transition from stripper
to cosmatologist. Arturo wasn't overly thrilled

886
01:24:20,119 --> 01:24:25,600
with this idea because it would temporarily
put a stop to the money that Shannon

887
01:24:25,760 --> 01:24:30,760
was making as a stripper, which
directly benefited him. Did she ever cause

888
01:24:30,840 --> 01:24:36,479
me calling license? Would she cut
hair at She didn't. She got her

889
01:24:36,560 --> 01:24:40,439
license, and that's when she was
with him, And I think he was

890
01:24:40,560 --> 01:24:43,920
just I didn't really want her to
better herself. I was just pushing hers

891
01:24:44,000 --> 01:24:48,279
to keep dancing. According to Shannon's
coworkers, who knew her by her nickname

892
01:24:48,439 --> 01:24:55,399
Star, Shannon was committed to her
goals and she felt that if she was

893
01:24:55,520 --> 01:24:59,680
going to achieve them, she was
going to have to kick her worthless,

894
01:25:00,039 --> 01:25:06,479
unemployed boyfriend out of her apartment.
Smart girl, so she remembers working with

895
01:25:06,640 --> 01:25:13,000
her, said they were fighting,
and who was fighting? Anthony Starr,

896
01:25:13,119 --> 01:25:15,560
Yeah, says she was talking about
how she needed to get away from him.

897
01:25:15,640 --> 01:25:18,800
It was no good. The girl
said she just started working there and

898
01:25:18,840 --> 01:25:21,800
didn't think nothing of it, that
it was just another girl talking about their

899
01:25:21,840 --> 01:25:30,039
loser boyfriend. If Katrina killed Shannon
Graves, her motive was jealousy. If

900
01:25:30,159 --> 01:25:34,279
Arturo killed Shannon, his motive was
a desperation to hold on to the things

901
01:25:34,359 --> 01:25:40,760
that Shannon was providing for him,
maybe in anger that they might be taken

902
01:25:40,840 --> 01:25:46,800
away again. Arturo was a user
and a taker, and apparently old habits

903
01:25:47,039 --> 01:25:53,159
die hard. While sitting in jail
awaiting trial, Arturo was still playing his

904
01:25:53,319 --> 01:25:57,920
game with yet another woman. I've
been with a lot of other girls,

905
01:26:00,159 --> 01:26:03,039
one of the main girls have always
fun with you know what I mean,

906
01:26:03,720 --> 01:26:14,159
Do anything for your type, same
way around. Now your kid, make

907
01:26:14,199 --> 01:26:21,600
sure your kids are good. Well, you know, if you needs somewhere

908
01:26:21,640 --> 01:26:27,520
to say, I know it's outside
of the set city and all that.

909
01:26:27,960 --> 01:26:32,199
Maybe you need to get away from
all that ship. Here's a guy sitting

910
01:26:32,279 --> 01:26:39,399
in jail awaiting trial for dismembering his
girlfriend and dissolving her body parts in acid,

911
01:26:40,199 --> 01:26:45,479
and this other woman is offering to
let him come live with her and

912
01:26:45,640 --> 01:26:49,920
her children. I mean, I
don't even I don't even have words for

913
01:26:50,000 --> 01:26:58,319
this. How desperate. Can you
be? Not a good look? In

914
01:26:58,399 --> 01:27:03,199
any event, our bu Roh was
never able to go live with this other

915
01:27:03,279 --> 01:27:09,199
woman. After accepting a plea agreement, he was sentenced to forty eight years

916
01:27:09,279 --> 01:27:15,920
to life and currently resides in an
Ohio state prison. Thank god. His

917
01:27:15,079 --> 01:27:20,520
friend, Andrew Hermann was sentenced to
twelve years in prison for his role in

918
01:27:20,640 --> 01:27:30,000
dismembering Shannon's body. Then there was
Katrina Layton. After continuing to lie to

919
01:27:30,199 --> 01:27:38,960
prosecutors repeatedly, her plea agreement was
revoked and she pled guilty to eight felonies,

920
01:27:39,159 --> 01:27:45,000
including abuse of a corpse and tampering
with evidence. Katrina, and by

921
01:27:45,039 --> 01:27:49,680
the way, this was only because
she was too stupid to actually go through

922
01:27:49,760 --> 01:27:57,640
with the plea deal, was sentenced
to eighteen years in prison. Also,

923
01:27:58,359 --> 01:28:03,119
if anyone's curious, shannon dog Molly
was adopted by Shannon's sister, so she's

924
01:28:03,239 --> 01:28:08,800
currently living a very happy life.
Good for Molly. I know a lot

925
01:28:08,880 --> 01:28:12,199
of you worry about the animals,
and so do I, but Molly's fine.

926
01:28:12,520 --> 01:28:15,319
Just so you know. She probably
misses her mom though very much.

927
01:28:15,439 --> 01:28:20,000
I don't know that there is a
moral to this story, but what stands

928
01:28:20,039 --> 01:28:26,880
out to me is that what these
three people were going to prior to Shannon's

929
01:28:26,960 --> 01:28:33,279
death didn't amount to any reason why
Shannon ever had to die. This wasn't

930
01:28:33,319 --> 01:28:40,239
a marital situation where anybody was going
to lose anything of any real value.

931
01:28:41,479 --> 01:28:45,680
It wasn't a situation where somebody was
going to discover that somebody had been doing

932
01:28:45,800 --> 01:28:54,159
anything that everybody didn't already know about. So Shannon's death was just pointless.

933
01:28:54,840 --> 01:29:01,279
It didn't serve the further anything other
than keeping things as cool and looking at

934
01:29:01,359 --> 01:29:06,159
what that status quote was. It
wasn't anything worth fighting for, but certainly

935
01:29:06,239 --> 01:29:13,680
not killing for her. Shannon Graves
was a young, hardworking woman that had

936
01:29:13,760 --> 01:29:17,680
a difficult upbringing. The death of
her mother at a young age led Shannon

937
01:29:17,840 --> 01:29:21,880
to drop out of high school and
become a stripper when she was only a

938
01:29:21,960 --> 01:29:30,039
teenager. But as Shannon got older, she realized she was capable of more.

939
01:29:30,119 --> 01:29:36,159
She earned her ged, graduated from
cosmetology school, and was working toward

940
01:29:36,239 --> 01:29:44,199
the modest goal of becoming a cosmetologist. Tragically, she never got to see

941
01:29:44,279 --> 01:29:53,640
that goal to the end. Instead, Katrina Layton and or Arturo Novoa carved

942
01:29:53,680 --> 01:29:59,279
her head in with a claw hammer, then in a drawn out and gruesome

943
01:29:59,439 --> 01:30:04,840
plot to hide the evidence the two
of them did unspeakable things to Shannon's body.

944
01:30:06,239 --> 01:30:12,119
In the end, all they got
for their troubles was years behind bars

945
01:30:13,279 --> 01:30:17,279
and a lot to think about if
they have the brain cells to do so

946
01:30:19,000 --> 01:30:26,199
in a world that is saturated with
horrific true crime stories. Believe me,

947
01:30:27,399 --> 01:30:34,000
it has become cliche to use this
phrase, but Shannon's murder can really only

948
01:30:34,119 --> 01:30:56,319
be described one way. Completely senseless. All right, that's gonna do it.

949
01:30:58,119 --> 01:31:00,399
Excuse me while I go kick some
soft for engineers around for a bit.

950
01:31:01,439 --> 01:31:12,880
It's my wife now until next time, stay safe. Yeah yeah,

951
01:31:30,039 --> 01:31:36,920
hey, Mike, I just joined
Patreon or whatever your swords galp is So

952
01:31:38,039 --> 01:31:43,359
my entire life has been you.
I'm that soccer practice like listening to horrific

953
01:31:43,640 --> 01:31:48,840
murder, but it's something to say
that. Hearing any negative feedback you get

954
01:31:49,079 --> 01:31:54,920
in for you just being like fucky
with my podcast whatever gives me a warm

955
01:31:55,079 --> 01:32:00,079
buddy feeling inside because fuck yeah,
you are completely right your podcast. You're

956
01:32:00,119 --> 01:32:06,159
amazing. We love you, and
thank you for making my two hours soccer

957
01:32:06,600 --> 01:32:15,520
podcasts like podcasts soccer games twice a
week bearable because people you Thanks