Oh, and welcome to the show. I'm Martin Wills, your host,
and we have a great guest who I a person I consider a friend,
Matthew Roberts coming up here in just a moment this week Charles A. Blear.
This blog is a nineteen ninety one UFO Crop Circle investigation by Paranet slash
micap. Great blogs, as usual by Charles Lee are always very informative,
and so our guests. It's funny. I was watching Netflix, or I
turned on Netflix recently, and you go to your homepage and all of a
sudden, there's Matthew and I go, oh, great, you know in
the Encounters series on Netflix. Anyway, it just reminded me I reach out.
He hasn't been on for quite a while, and I always enjoy his
company, and so I'm going to bring him in right now. Matthew,
welcome to the show. Wepe so you're muted, Matthew. Yeah, sorry,
everyone does that, don't worry. Yeah, it's great to be back.
Thanks for having me, Martin. Yeah, yeah, it's it was
really something to see. Oh. I first of all, I should say
this is a pre recorded show, but how I do pre recorded shows,
generally speaking, is I just do him exactly like a live show, and
you have a work conflict, so you couldn't do it at our regular time,
and so I just do them just the way they are. I don't
edit, but I usually am able to be in the chat room, and
this this week I will be as well and interact that way. But so
glad to have you back. So yeah, you're all of a sudden,
you're taking up my whole big screen TV here, and I'm saying, oh
my god, Matthew, that's awesome. So I'm so glad that you were
asked to be on that series and a great job. What was that like?
Well, first of all, we should backtrack because you haven't been on
for a couple of years, and we'll talk about all that stuff as we
go along. But I would like to just for someone who didn't catch you
the first time you were on the Roosevelt, and you were on the Roosevelt
when the gimbal video was recorded and you saw it firsthand, So I'd like
to talk about I guess that would be what sparked your interest in this topic
to begin with, or did you I can't remember, did you have a
did you have kind of a interest in it. Prior to that, No,
I did not. I had no interest in this topic whatsoever. And
I I think, just like everyone else, my interest was sparked by the
New York Times article in twenty seventeen. Obviously, because when that article came
out, they also there was a release of the gimbal footage, right that
is, that was really what kind of drew me in up to that point.
I never expected that I would ever see that footage again. I never
you know, I thought, if this is something, it's some program,
I'm I'm not read into it. I don't work on it, so I'll
never know, you know. So I just kind of put it away from
twenty fifteen until twenty seventeen when I saw it again. And then the New
York Times article came out. There were some people associated in that article to
the Stars Academy, and so I just I started the analyst and me came
out and I started to drill down on that, you know, you know,
to have these people written books, you know, So I started reading
Tom DeLong stuff, and then I started reading some Jacques Vala, and then
shortly thereafter my personal experiences started with the phenomenon. Yeah, yeah, I
know and what those experiences are quite amazing. I'll never forget when you first
told me that, I was like kind of shocked because you have you are
also in naval intelligence, is that? Yeah? So I was on the
Theodore Roosevelt in twenty fifteen and then I transferred early in twenty seventeen to the
Office of Naval Intelligence in Washington, DC. And that's where I was when
the New York Times article hit, and Uh, I started to have these
follow on experiences. I guess, I guess now you know post uh James
Lecatzy's book, we would call that, you know, the hitchhiker effect.
Maybe you know so, and we'll get into all that, But first of
all, I'd like to talk about what your experience was like on the ship.
What was there a buzz was uh? You know, were people talking
about, hey, you know, there's something crazy going on here? I
mean, how did all that come about? How did you see that that
video there for the first time? And I pulled up I think this is
an edited version where it takes on, you know, a lot of the
glare that you often see in it. But anyway, so when this happened,
what was it like there? Yeah, so uh, you know,
people would have would think that maybe the ship was a buzz with this,
but it really wasn't because it wasn't known to many people, right if I
mean, there's there's like five thousand people on board an aircraft carrier, But
if you didn't work for the air wing and you weren't an intel, you
didn't know about this, you know, you didn't know this was going on.
So but but I did, you know, since that was my world,
you know, I I there were people who were talking about I remember
specifically, and I put it in the book that I was going into Civic
one day for an intel brief and there were two pilots standing on either side
of the doorway into the briefing room, and one of them said to the
other one, Hey, do you see you see all this footage you know
about the UFOs And the other one's like, yeah, I saw it,
you know, And I just kind of put my head down and walked right
past them because I didn't want any part of that conversation. I just I
just didn't. I mean, and so but prior to that, I mean,
I was made aware of this when you know, this guy knew buddy
mine worked kind of more closely with the pilots than I ever did. We
were kind of sitting around in my space, which was a totally different space
another skiff and he walks in and he's like, hey, you're not going
to believe this. He's like, look at this, right, and so
he tells me where it is. I pull it up on my computer and
you know, that was the first time I saw the gimbal footage. There
was also the go fast footage was also there. Oh, I didn't realize
that I should know that that they were both the same. Now, let
me ask you this. We always get this little version of you know,
a couple of seconds here, how and I know the reason from what I
understand is there's some classified situations or maybe readings or something that may be able
to be cropped out of that, and that's why they make it such a
brief little video. Did you get to see like the full the full video
or was yours short like that as well? No, that was the exact
same length clip that I remember seeing. Yeah, I did not see a
longer version of that, but there were there were more videos. Yeah,
I mean I would like to and those videos still exist. We know they
do they have to. And I really if they weren't classified, I'm wondering
why we're not seeing them because I'd really love to know, and I bet
you probably would too. Were there any other you know, unusual things that
they saw while they were observing this? Yeah, uh well there were there
were other things, and hopefully, I mean hopefully that story will be told
one day, hm hmm. And I uh but but you know, these
these things happen, right, They happen in other battle groups. I mean,
the Nimits is another example of this kind of thing. So this,
I guess, I guess what I'm getting at is that the the events on
the Theodore Roosevelt didn't seem to be that uh special huh. I mean,
but they did to us at the time, right, because it was,
you know, uh something totally out of the ordinary obviously. But but you
know, and I and I one of the things that I like to talk
about is just that I wish that they would release footage and and images of
stuff that is unambiguous, right right, the stuff they've released so far,
it's like, oh, well that could be could be a piece of trash.
It's a joke, right, we know, loon you know, they
have better stuff than that. You know, right, let's let's just out
with the stuff that is if you if you saw it, you there'd be
no question. That is not a piece of garbage, That is not a
bone. Yeah, it is exactly what you think it is, you know,
I mean, yeah, but let's not beat around the bush. I
think that's uh, you know, I mean that that goes along with softening
the edges. I think it's kind of like, uh, you know,
I mean, I've talked about this a couple of times because it's pretty funny
the way he does it. But I was watching recently, I don't know,
a couple of months ago, James Fox was on a panel and Michael
Shermer was there, and Michael Shermer started talking about this UFO. He went
on and onto the details and then said, but it was explain to be
And then James is getting if he's fuming, and then finally he gets a
chance to talk and he says, we don't want to know about the ones
we figured out. We don't want Yeah, there are a diamond dozen.
That's not what we're interested in. That's not what we should be talking about.
We should be talking about the ones that we can't understand and can't figure
out. And uh and then Sherman never I watched the whole thing. It
was just a little clip that was out there. But Shermer never had a
reply to that. And you know, but really there's you know, they
have some great stuff and uh, you know, and and and how much
of it would be a class classification issue for some type of secrecy? I
don't know, you know, I mean, I don't know what you're what
you could speculate on that. Do you think there could be a lot of
things that could be released that wouldn't jeopardize anything anyone? I would think that
there those things certainly exist. I mean, I I with with some of
the satellite imagery, I'm not sure uh that that would ever be released just
because you know, you don't want people to know what your capabilities are.
Yeah, yeah, but I mean, I mean we've all seen uh,
you know, public images of They show it all the time, right like
they they when that when that uh Russian plane dump fuel on one of our
one of our drones, you know, they they came out with that footage.
So so what what what what we're capable of seeing on these craft is
not a mystery. Everybody knows it. They've they've made footage like that public
and they do it all the time. So why can't they show us something
anomalous that was captured in that same way. Now, I'm going to ask
you a question that I asked a little bit differently, but to Louel Zondo
as well, and that is were you were you overhearing things that you can't
talk about that makes this even more amazing? Or would you not even want
to go there? Uh? You mean in terms of what you can talk
about what you can't talk about? Yeah, because it's class because you were
in a classified situation. Oh absolutely, yeah, yeah, absolutely, I
mean there is people don't know it yet. But this topic is, this
is huge, and it touches every facet of your life, everyone's life.
And I feel like people should be outraged that this is being kept from them.
You know. I I you know, I would drive to work and
I would see people just passing me on the freeway, or you know,
I'd go into a convenience store or get gas or something, and I just
look around and I'm just like these people they have no idea, you know,
And and that's just not right. I think that way often myself,
you know, I think about those things and yeah, I mean, what
did you think about the whole UAP hearing. I don't I was there by
the way I made it there. Do you think that's a Do you think
that was a positive thing? I do. I think though that I think
a lot of people when it came to Grussia's testimony, are a little standoffish
about that, in the same way that I think that they're kind of a
little bit standoffish about encounters. I think I think they like to watch it,
right, and it's kind of a scary story around Halloween time. But
but you've got to understand this stuff is real, right, this is this
is not a joke, and and it's so serious too. I mean,
louel A Zondo uses words like somber to describe this. I certainly feel that
same sentiment myself. Mm hmmm. And And why can't people know, you
know, I mean, it's only holding us back, it's holding us back,
and it's it's time. Do you think? Uh? And I know
I said this last week and last week's show, but do you think that
part of the reason that this is kept secret is because they really don't know
the whole thing, and maybe they don't. They can't say how they can
protect us from these sayings that are here. I think that I I honestly
think that one of the reasons it's it's still a secret is that nobody wants
to talk about it. Right. Who wants to go? What politician up?
Up until those hearings, right? What politicians? Right? I wanted
to stand there in front of a microphone and say, this stuff is real
and guess what it's going to get even weirder? Yeah, So so,
I mean the weirdness factor to this, uh, I mean that goes on
as far as the eye can see. I mean, and so I think
that that makes a lot of people very uncomfortable because, yeah, you know,
you start to think about, well, you know, what is reality?
Then exactly if this is what it is and it's really it's going to
upset your worldview? It will. But I think for the better, right,
I mean, it's better to know, although we don't really have the
whole picture, but still, you know, you look at like most people
want to look at basically the nuts and bolts of the UFOs, you know,
like UFO sighting, What could it be you know, that type of
thing, but not going to the depth. And as soon as Grush was
out there and he started talking about you know, crash retrievals stuff like that,
everybody's like whoa, whoa, whoa. When I went visited my sister
at a lake, you know, like a day or two after that came
out this year, and I started talking about it, and the whole my
nieces and everyone's eyes are glazing over and you know, five seconds in like
that, and they're not even look, you know, they're they're thinking about
what's for dinner. They don't they don't want to talk about Now. If
I just said, well, you know this amazing ufo, you know,
over whatever, then that would have probably kept their attention through that. But
as soon as you start saying like crashed and you know there's possibly bodies here
and you know, stuff like that, they don't want to talk about that
at all. And you know, that is the part that makes people uncomfortable
than things that happened to you are going to make some people feel uncomfortable.
And I get it, you know, I mean, it's it's a uh.
I mean, for me, after reading your book about halfway through,
I would I would say initiated, I start to think, like I try
to empathize and think, what would it be like to be you? And
I would be curled up in the ball like you mentioned a few times.
That's how I would handle something like that, you know. I mean,
I just I can't imagine living a functional life and having this kind of going
on in the background. And you actually left before retirement. And did any
of that have to do with things that were going on or was it just
life changes? Well? It was both. I mean, I once I
realized that this was happening to me, and I realized kind of the truth
of it, and that the reality we all live in is not what we
think it is, yea. And the fact that you know, that kind
of stuff is kept from people like we're not able to discover that because they've
got this secret locked up, right, I just to me, that was
that's abhorrent, right. I don't agree with that at all. And so
I thought to myself, I can't do this anymore. I've only got four
years left to retirement, but I can't justify staying for me just to collect
a retirement. It just didn't feel right, you know, I've thought I've
got to talk about this. This is crazy, you know, and people
need to know that this is a real thing, you know. I mean
a lot of people like to associate people who are experiencers or who have had
experiences as you know, these tinfoil hat wearin crazy people. But I can,
I mean, you can see I'm totally functional. I'm not. Yeah,
after hanging with you too. Also, oh, I should mention this
just like a sort of a shout out, and we'll get right back into
this. But we had such a great time. Yeah, when I was
out in Phoenix and we were hanging out together, we closed a restaurant basically
it was Mark d' antonio with Stacey was there, Marian, Rob, Heather
and Dave and uh we oh my god. We just had such a great
night. That was so much fun. I didn't want it to end.
And but and then we met up earlier in the day. But I'm sorry
I took I just had to take that jag in case any of these people
might be listening. So that was just that was a blast. But yes,
you were. I would I would call you totally functional, and I
would think, uh if I recall right, didn't people kind of lean on
you for advice and things like that a lot of times because of your demeanor
and all that. Yeah, I mean, uh, you know, people
at past jobs or even in the Navy. I had a boss in the
Navy at one point that said to me, you know, you are the
most level headed person I have ever known. You know, right, you
have that you have that way about you, certainly right, And and I
mean that's just the way I am. I I've always been that way,
and I continue to be that way. These these experiences have not changed that.
But I do have a moral compass, right, and so I I
couldn't justify remaining silent about this because I know that there are a lot of
people who start to go through these things. And if you if you go
visit a psychiatrist today and you tell them I'm seeing non humans in my room
at night, right, they're gonna You're automatically going to be diagnosed with something
like psychosis or zophrenia and and these depending on what you do for a living,
that could be a career ending diagnosis. And if that's not the truth
of what's happening here, then what are we doing to people? You know?
And that is that is what I take issue with, you know,
And people say, oh, you join the military, the military is what
it is, but you got to understand there's a line, right, And
I feel like when when we're when we're lying about this too American citizens,
right, and we're just totally okay with the fact that people's careers are being
ended because they're diagnosed with these mental conditions that aren't really the reflecting the reality
of what's happening. To me, that's just it's disturbing. It's disturbing,
and it's immoral and I couldn't do it. I wouldn't do it, you
know. Right. Have you ever you know, spoken like to other people
that are also experiencing similar encounters like I'm talking about like support, because I've
I've gone to a couple of those groups at you know, conferences, and
they seem very supportive of each other. And I'm just wondering, have you
ever tried anything like that yourself? Yeah? I mean, I so,
I have my email address up on my Facebook page. A lot of people
tell me you probably shouldn't do that, you know, but but I,
you know, I I feel like I've been through something and if and if
I can help someone else, then that's what I'm gonna do, you know
what I mean? And I had I I the stories I've got. I
mean, I won't use any names, but there's there was a guy that
was reading my book that was going through this, and I didn't I he
reached out to me. He came across my book in like this very paranormal,
frightening way, and he started reading it. He started having these experiences,
and his family, his wife in particular, hated that book, right
because because she thought he was just like slowly losing his mind, right,
And so he reached out to me, you know. And he he had
told his wife before the phone call that I had with him that one of
two things was going to happen at the end of this phone call. Either
he was going to be okay or they were going to drive the hospital and
check him in for mental health. Wow. Yeah, and that that's that
to me is just too much, right, Like we we don't need to
be doing that, like uh and and so and so he was like,
you know, is this real? You know, is this really happening to
me? And I said, yes, you know, the experiences you're having
are valid. They're real, just as real as your hand in front of
your face, and just remain grounded, you know, don't let this uh
you know, what would be the right word for it, you know,
just remain grounded in life and and and with these experiences and see what they're
telling you. You know, see what these experiences are teaching you, because
there is a point, you know. And and so he's fine now you
know that's good. But oh yeah, yeah, he's doing X. And
it was funny because you know, I didn't know that that all of that
was going to happen before this phone call. I didn't know that he had
said that to his wife, and I didn't know that he had he had
family actually gathered at the house, like they were all waiting for this.
Oh my god. Wow. It was almost like an intervention type of thing.
Yeah. Yeah, it was pretty serious. How about that. So
let's let's talk a little bit about I want to ask you how long after
you first you know, we're talking about the hitchhiker type thing, whatever it
is. So many people talk about that type of situation like it's almost like
it opens a door. If it's not a hitchhiker situation, it's opening a
door to another whatever. To come in. This happened, and I believe
you said twenty fifteen right on. So you're there and then you you change
jobs into the intelligence part and all that, you're off the ship and everything.
When did something show up? It was shortly after the New York Times
article and I started to dig into it. That was that was when things
started before I because I had just pushed it off right. It was like
I'll never know, you know, yep. But then when I had something
to dig into, you know, suddenly there's some meat there and and so
I started to dig and then that's it was. It was almost immediately the
weirdness started, you know, it was it was unreal. Really. Yeah,
I don't know if you cared it to talk about it, but or
in a general way whatever you'd like to do. Yeah, I mean,
so, something that is common among experiencers is this book called The Kabalian by
the three An How many experiencers I've come across that I don't know, I've
never talked to them, or I come across them on Reddit and I say,
hey, have you read the Kabalian yet? And they're a little taken
aback by it because they're like, either yeah, I read it or no,
it's on my reading list. It's on my nightstand right now. Huh.
You know. And and so I certainly came across that book in a
very frightening paranormal way through a series of just impossible coincidences that just totally rocked
me. Yeah, I remember you lay that all out in your book.
Yeah, how you know, like someone just saying something I think at an
outdoor cafe. I can't remember what it was, but yeah, something just
clicked with you and and made you look into that now. Is that I
can't remember? I know I produced a donna by the way, she says,
Hi, she got that book right away after you first were on my
show. I've never I might have peeked at it. I don't think I've
ever read much in it. But anyways, this in like an old I've
just remind me and for the person that's unfamiliar with what it is. Yeah,
So it's that this book was written over one hundred years ago by a
guy named William Walker Atkinson. All right, yeah, yeah, and it's
it supposedly was written anonymously by the Three Initiates, is what it officially says.
It's the Kabbalian by the Three Initiates, and it just gives kind of
a synopsis of the these seven laws that govern the universe. And seemingly that's
very simple, right, But then you when you crack this book open,
and a lot of people love this book. It talks about these seven principles,
but those seven principles you can see how they like pervade everything, right,
and so it just becomes this very surreal thing to read because you think
everything around us, you think of it, it's just so complex. How
could it? How could it be just seven principles? You know? But
but it really is kind of that simple because you you kind of realize that
the universe is just every and everything in it. It's all just one thing,
and so that simplifies things measurably, right, and then you can describe
the universe and seven principles, you know, and and so so it's kind
of an esoteric book and it just very simply lays out these these simple principles.
But then, like I said, you start to dig into that and
it's like, wow, you know this, this actually is everything, you
know? And so when you say that people a lot of these people that
you speak to are into this, have already looked into it. I wonder
what that connection is. Why all of a sudden they're reading the same book
that you're reading. I mean, it's not like on you go online and
say what should experiencers read? Right? Yeah? Like that? Right?
Oh yeah, yeah, I mean it was it was you come across very
paranormal and scary way, and it's you can't ignore it, you know,
I, or at least I couldn't. You know. It was clear to
me that the universe was saying you will read this book, because it was
something that I came across, right, and I was I was not a
religious person, I was not a spiritual person, and in my search I
came across this book and I read the synopsis, and I was like,
and in the synopsis it said that there's no such thing as coincidence, right,
and that everything happens for a reason, and it happens according to law,
a universal law, but we call it a coincidence because we don't understand
the law that's associated with it. And so I was like, well,
that's that's just nonsense. It's too far out there, you know. But
then I had this day long series of just terrifying coincidences. The next day,
right after reading this synopsis and deciding I wasn't going to read it,
and then and then that all culminated with me at this gas station, random
gas station at midnight. And I'm at this point, I'm terrified, right
because of these series of events that is just unfolded throughout the day. And
I'm walking up to this table because I knew that I was at this gas
station for a certain reason, because of all of these coincidences kind of culminating
in this. And there was like this homeless man who was sitting with these
two women who were like dressed to the nines in like professional business attire.
They look like the civilian women I work with, and like they were going
to go brief congress, that's what they looked like. But they're at a
gas station, eating outside with a homeless man at midnight. And it was
like by the Free Way. It was like a bad part of town,
right wow. And so I'm like, this is not this shouldn't be happening,
you know. And as I'm walking past them, one of the women
points at the homeless guy and she's like, you see, there's no such
thing as coincidence. Everything happens for a reason. And she said, you
know, I never sit at places like this, but something told me to
sit here tonight. M And I was with that. I walked into the
convenience store and I was like, no way, did that lady just say
that. There's no way, you know, And then I remembered the Kabalian
and I was like, that's exactly what that book said. I have to
read that book, you know. So yeah, so what what were if
you care to speak about it? Like I said, because I'm sure people
are curious of how are these things that have happened to you? Have they
happened always at nighttime? First of all, as far as I know you
had like this visual sighting, you know, during during the day, like
a football type type of situation like that. But I mean as far as
like the beings, the non human let's call them that, showing up,
was it always at Was it always at nighttime? And were you, you
know, people always The first thing everybody says is sleep paralysis. You know,
you do see weird things and stuff like that. So let's just talk
about what that was like if you can. Well, yeah, I mean,
so there were experiences that I also had during the day. Like I
there was one instance where, you know, I was just terrified. I
hadn't been sleeping, and I just I needed to take my mind off of
all of this. And it was it was afternoon sometime, you know,
and so I walked outside on my cell phone and I was trying to call
a buddy of mine just to talk about anything, right, I didn't care
what it was. You want to talk about sheep hurting, Let's talk about
that, Like, I don't you know, anything but this, because I
was just tired of it and terrified. But so I'm standing there, you
know, and the phone is ringing, He's not picking up, and it
became apparent to me that he probably wasn't going to answer, or he's busy.
And then all of a sudden, I feel someone pushed the cell phone
from behind me so hard that I almost drop it, right, And so
I hung up the call, and I turned around with a smile on my
face. I expected to see my roommate standing behind me, you know,
pulling a prank or something, you know, and my smile turned to horror
when I realized that there was no one there, you know, And so
I just I ran back in the house and just kind of sat in my
room, and I was just like, what is going on? Why am
I being tortured like this? You know? And then later that night,
I went down to my truck and I you know, I was sitting there
and I called my brother just to kind of and I was going to finally
tell him about everything that had been happening with me. And as I'm calling
my brother in my truck, it happened again, like someone pushed on the
cell phone so hard that it almost fell out of my hand. But I
was in my truck like that, there was nothing. There's no seat behind
me, it was just the window and the metal truck. So at that
point I didn't even turn around. I was like, I know, I
know what that is. There's nobody back there, you know what I mean.
So I just continued to call my brother. And so, yeah,
there were there were times during the things happened. Certainly some of those coincidences
that led me that gas stahould happen during the day. Uh. And uh
so it's not all just sleep paral. You can't just explain this away as
sleep paralysis because because those sleep paralysis h experiences, Uh, if you want
to call it sleep paralysis. They they fit in with these other experiences that
were happening in the day that were also equally terrifying, you know. And
I was obviously walking around or totally awake when these things happened. So yeah,
and I'm not trying to just so you know, I'm not try oh
yeah, say this is you know, hey, uh, Matthew, you're
just having sleep prousis. I'm not trying to say that, but I'm just
saying that, you know, that's what a lot of people, a lot
of try to maybe you know, yeah, you hear that all the time,
you know, and I know, weird things do happen, but but
still you've had, uh, after reading your book and getting into the details,
you've had some you know, very I would do, I dare say,
intimate encounters and uh, you know, things that were really you know,
uh yeah, I'm kind of mind blowing. I was kind of shocked
by some of the stuff that I that I read. So let me ask
you this, Are they these things still happening? Uh yeah, I mean,
well not not to the extent that they were. They've kind of there's
something else now there. It's nothing like It was because about halfway through all
of this, this this is all the took place over the course of about
nine months, and it was it had a very definite beginning, a middle,
and an end, you know, and then it became something else entirely.
So I have different kinds of experiences now where I'll either hear a voice,
you know, as I'm waking up that will tell me things, or
and just after I published the book, I started to get immediately started to
get flack for it right online. But we all know how Twitter is.
Yeah, So anyway, this isn't something I talked to anybody about, but
I was like, I was thinking to myself one night before I was going
to bed, I was like, what am I doing. I was like,
I can just take this book down and forget this whole thing. You
know. I don't need this, you know, and why be a messenger
delivering this message that people seemingly don't want to hear. So I was like,
forget it. I'm going to take this down in the morning and just
forget this whole thing. Wow. So anyway, that night, I you
know, go to sleep and my mother, my mother appears to me in
my dream and she says Matthew, don't you dare take that book down.
It's too important, right, And she passed away in twenty ten and then
or twenty fifteen actually, And then when I started waking from that dream,
I heard the voice telling me that I needed to be more like a coconut
dragon. And I was like, I was like, what is a coconut
dragon? Yeah? So I looked it up on Google and it's like a
kid's cartoon or something like that, and these these dragons are born in coconut
trees and and they have a really thick skin so that after the egg hatches,
they fall out of the coconut tree and they don't get hurt with their
thick skin. So, uh so I was like, oh, I get
it. I get what you're saying. Yeah. Yeah, well, I
mean you think of that one that one guy that you helped, you know.
I mean when I think of things like that, things become really worth
it, you know, whatever it is. Uh, it's it's important,
I think, you know, to to get it out there. And and
you know, just you're always going to get the negatives, you know,
It's just the way it is. I mean, I uh, I get
emails and posts all the time, and it's the way it is. And
and but you're just going to be happy with what you're doing. And that's
how I that's my philosophy anyway. So uh, let's see so this.
I guess there was a question has had for you and it just slipped my
mind. I hate when that happens. But I guess one of the things
we could talk about is, you know, what do you what do you
think this is? Do you think we're moving in a positive direction where we'll
actually no more? I know we talked about the you know, grush and
all that, but does it does it feel like we're making some headway or
do you think it's the window dressing again and uh, you know, one
step forward to back type of thing, you know. I I don't I
don't really know. I would hope that we're we're making progress and that something
will be made public. Uh, but but I don't know. I don't
know how this is going to end up. And I think that I think
people need to continue to apply pressure to their elected representatives. Yeah, so
if you have not written to them and have not called yet, do so.
I mean, it's it's it's very important. And so I I I
do have hope that that something's going to shift here. And I and I
saw a tweet recently, you know, Loue Elizondo talking about how, you
know, the tide is turning. It's it's it's becoming more difficult for them
to keep this secret and as it should be. You know. Yeah,
yeah, I know what I was going to ask, you know, Okay,
so let's hear how it all happened, how you were contacted for encounters
and how all that thing uh you know, worked out, and what it
was like. Yeah, it was that was kind of it was an amazing
experience. I mean, I I loved it. I mean it was it
was great. I I I'm the kind of person though that I like to
be wallpaper in a room, you know, and so so so it was
a little unnerving to be in front of all of these cameras and they were
like grilling me for eight hours. I think I wondered how long. Yeah,
it went on for about eight hours one day. I filmed my portion
of that in in London on the fifth of November last this past November.
Yeah, and uh, you know, it was the crew was great directed
we actually fly to London yes, they did. Oh my god, it's
wonderful. Yeah. Yeah. At first they were going to do it in
la when I had agreed to do it, and uh it was I was
okay with that, you know, because I could drive there. I'm in
Arizona, so it's real cloth. But then I got a call and they
said, actually, we're going to do it in London, and I had
real reservations about that because I hate I hate flying. I can't okay.
So at first I was like, let me think about that because that's a
long flight and I don't know if I want to do that. You know,
too many memories of that being on really awful aircraft in the military has
made flying a very unenjoyable experience for me. But yeah, but I I
I agreed to do it. But you know, before that, I was
contacted and the director wanted to have, uh, you know, a chat
with me. So we did like a zoom call. Now, how did
he how did he find you? Do you have any idea how they found
you? You know, I think somebody read my book. All the right
people read my book, and yeah, and so you know, mister Altman
was, yeah, he was. He was kind of a little bit instrumental
in that. So so he kind of you know, slipped me in the
door, and I had this interview with the director and they it went on
for a couple of hours, and they liked what they heard and they said,
okay, you know, let's let's go ahead and we're going to have
you on. We'll be in touch, you know, And so that that's
how all that went down. Were you happy with what they how they edited
it and presented it. Oh? Yeah, yeah, I mean, I
mean, obviously I wish they would have gotten more into some of the other
stuff that I talked about, but I don't know, I I it was
very well done. It was it was very good documentary. And I think
I think it's it's really you know, for people who kind of have followed
the UFO topic, like yourself. So a lot of this was not new,
like the aerial school like you everybody in the U mean even about that.
But this is a really trition for people who woke up one day and
they're like, wait, what the there's this bill going through Congress and it's
talking about non human intelligence and the government's talking about UFOs all of a sudden,
what you know, Like so I think that this is kind of a
very you know, good introduction for folks like that, you know, who
don't really know a whole lot about this because they haven't been following it.
You know. I wish they'd make more. You know, there's I think
there's the four I can't remember. Yeah, there were, it was four
parts in this document series. Yeah. I wish there would be, you
know, continue one because this so much, so much to talk about,
Oh yeah for sure. Yeah. Yeah. So I didn't realize, as
I said mentioned when we were talking earlier about the Go Fast video, I
didn't realize that there was a connection to the Rosevelt on that as well.
Was that the same year? Did that happen the same year? Yeah?
It was. It was all in the same event. Oh, the same
event. Well, I mean it's the event. Well, let's be specific
when we talk about the event. This was something that went on for like
three days, right, This wasn't This wasn't just this happened once and it
lasted an hour and that was it. This was a three day long thing,
and so and so the go Fast was was a part of that over
the course of the three days, and so was the gimbal. Now when
they locked onto something like that, it was moving along the go fast?
Is that was that something that they're like, oh, you got it,
you know that type of thing like it was. Was that a really very
unusual speed and everything for that? I mean, I don't recall if they
give out the speed of what that thing was going. I you know,
I don't know, I don't I don't know what the speed was either.
I mean they call it the go fast because it appears to be moving pretty
quickly, you know. And there there are other people that, you know,
uh, claim that that's parallax and it's just like this stationary balloon maybe
or something like that. But well, I mean they show they wouldn't be
locking on it, you know what I mean, they wouldn't even bother locking
on it, you know, right, yeah, and and and you know
beyond that, like in in the gimbal footage, for instance, you hear
the pilots say it's going against the wind at a height twenty knots. Right,
yeah, show me a balloon that can move into one hundred and twenty
nine headwinds. You know that's not going to happen, that the wind is
going to carry that balloon, which and so it's not going to be moving
against Yeah, and there's also the Mick A. West explanation that it's a
distance of a commercial jet turning or something like that. I don't remember what
it was exactly, but whatever it was, you know, kind of proved
it was proven to him that that's not the situation. And you know,
it's basically unexplainable. But was this this was caught in the flur I believe
was this in the flur camera? But is that was that in a what
spectrum? Is that in? Well that that's infrared for looking infrared? Did
they also do you happen to know if they also did like a daylight video
just a plane video of it at the same time, I don't know that.
I don't know. I'm not sure, and I don't know if they
got I don't know if any of this footage was from the daytime because from
what I remember, from what I remember, this was mostly nighttime events.
I could be wrong about that. I mean, it was twenty fifteen,
but I certainly remember this happening at night, not during the Oh okay,
yeah, I mean you can't really tell in the infrared everything. Yeah,
I don't know, Yeah, yeah, well, I can't believe how quickly
time goes. But I also get to say, really, when you and
I talk on the phone and stuff, it's always so enjoyable. It's always
nice and nice catching up and everything. Yeah, I really enjoy our chats.
You're a very pleasant guy to talk to. Thank you, all right,
Matthew. So you put it out there that your email address is on
indeed on your Facebook page, so people could reach you that way. But
I agree with your mom's spirit, you know, keep the coconut dragon thicked
skin and kick that out there because you don't know who you're going to help,
right, Yeah, exactly, exactly. All right, Well you take
care, all right, Thanks, all right, thank you, all right
everyone. We'll be back next week and I'm waiting to hear back from my
guests. I'm sorry I don't have the confirmation, but just if you want
to know, go to our website podcastufo dot com. You can also sign
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guest and blog, et cetera. Thanks so much everyone, and remember to
keep your eyes to the sky. Also,