This episode may contain content of a graphic nature, including descriptions of physical and
sexual violence against adults, children, and animals. Listener discretion is advised.
Hi everyone, I'm Talia and I'm Tanya, and together we are Crimes and
Consequences, a true crime podcast. Hi Tanya, Hi Telia. Welcome back
everyone to this week's episode of Crimes and Consequences. This is a story Tanya,
I've never heard before and it's pretty brutal the actual crime and very interesting.
So before I start, though, I'd like to ask everybody to hit
the subscribe follow like button and with that, are you ready? I am.
This is a story of Charles and Elizabeth Senate. They were living in
nineteen eighty three in Sheffield, Alabama, and they had a really good life.
Just to give you a little background, Charles was a pastor. He
worked at the Westside Church of Christ. Sheffield was a very tight community and
they were very well respected. Liz was a really good mom to their two
children. They had two children, Chuck and Mike. Is really Charles junior.
Elizabeth and Charles met when they were in their teens and just to give
you a little background, they met in Ohio. Both very Christian. They
fell in love. They got married at the age of twenty oh and they
eventually moved from Ohio to Alabama. Charles had went to school to become a
pastor and he actually found a congregation he could work at, and it happened
to be in Alabama where at that time Elizabeth's parents and she went by Liz
someone to call her Liz they lived, so it was very exciting for them.
Nine months after the date they were married, which was in nineteen sixty
two, they got married. That's when Charles Junior Chuck was born nine months
a honeymoon baby mm hmmm. And then Mike was born two years later.
They had a really good relationship. Liz was devoted mom by all sentiments.
Everybody described her as just being She's kind of quiet, loving, the person
you would want to hang out with in the sense that you could trust her.
She was caring, she would always be there for anybody in the community.
And then Charles, being pastor, was obviously well respected in the community.
And they had a great life. They did everything together. They would
play game. I mean, they were a tight family that was very i
don't want to say overly religious, but very Christian and that was a bomb
they had, and everybody knew. Sundays they would go to West Side Church
of Christ and Charles would preach. But then something happened, Oh, something
very bad. It was approximately eleven forty four am on Friday, March eighteenth,
nineteen eighty eight, when Charles called the Colbert County Sheriff's office hysterical.
He found his wife, Liz, lying unconscious and bleeding profusely on the floor
of their living room. He had been gone from nine until almost noon and
when he came home there was his wife and it was not a nice scene,
but I'll get to that. The house had been ransacked, especially the
master bedroom. There appeared to be a very big struggle and they and when
the police arrived, they could tell that Liz had fought hard for her life.
When they looked at her body, she had multiple stab wounds to her
upper right chest and neck and slashes across her head. But she was still
alive. Oh man, she was beaten very badly, which again i'll go
into, but I'm warning you guys, she was beaten very badly. But
when the ems arrived, they discovered she still had a heartbeat. And when
Charles found out, he almost passed out. Oh no, he was relieved.
Relieved. EMS put Liz in the ambulance and they took her to Helen
Keller Memorial Hospital and immediately, without delay, put her in surgery. They
were trying to stop the hemorrhaging because she was just leading profusely. However,
two hours later she died. Wow. Investigators obviously began to talk to neighbors,
friends, family, and Charles was completely distraught. The neighbors had reported
seeing a car with Oklahoma license plates leaving the rural residence. And they lived
in a very rural house. So Liz is at home and she's by herself,
and there's nobody near by. I mean there's neighbors, but it's rural.
Yeah, there's probably a lot of land between her and her neighbors.
And yeah, one person, one of the neighbors, stated that he thought
there were two men and a dog in the car. Police immediately launched a
search beyond the lookout for any vehicle with an Oklahoma license plate. They were
hoping to figure out who they're in Alabama. So you got Oklahoma license plate,
who did this? And that license plate would stand out right right?
They went for days with no leads. They interviewed Charles twice and they really
had no idea who would have done this to Liz. But there were some
things that just stood out to them that seemed really strange. For example,
the whole house wasn't ransacked, it was just the bedroom. It was the
bedroom in a little bit of the living room. Okay, there were only
two things taken, and I'll get to that. There was still money left
and Lose's purse, really hundreds of dollars. She had her purse, So
that's really weird, really weird. There was no signs of any sexual assault
or an attempt on a sexual assault on Liz, so they couldn't figure out
a clear motive. If it's not it's not robbery and then sexual assault,
Why is somebody out in this rural area attacking a forty five year old mom.
Yeah, and so brutally, who has no enemies. By the way,
Liz had no enemies. As you can imagine, the community was completely
side themselves. Charles, he was beside himself, and then their poor children,
Oh yeah, were devastated. Everybody was devastated. Police held a press
conference and during the press conference they basically stated that they had no idea still
what was going on, and they were desperate for clues, and they had
a tip line asking people to call in for tips. It is desperation.
We've done many stories where they need the public's help and just providing any clues.
And another thing they noticed was there was no sign of fourth century hmm.
So you would think that Liz might have known these people, because it
appears she opened the door for them. As I stated, the police first
talked to Charles, obviously, and he's distraught, but he had an alibi.
He had left their family home at about seven thirty am and he went
and did a bunch of errands, including visiting his church and then several local
residents, and as I said, he got home about eleven forty, eleven
forty three, something like that, and then he called at eleven forty four
and police were able to corroborate his alibi, so he definitely wasn't there.
An autopsy was conducted on Liz and it determined that she died somewhere between ten
thirty and eleven thirty, So they had that narrow window of time in which
she was attacked again. That's how they know that Charles, he wasn't there.
It was only four days after the murder when investigators decided to drain a
pond that was located near the senate residence. And when they did, they
found some interesting things which they believed were the murder weapons. Oh, they
found a piece of wood floating amids the murky waters. They found a hunting
knife, a fire poker, and a broken wooden walking cane. This pond
was only fifty yards from the Sunate's home and police were like, these have
to be the murder weapons because she was beaten. The autopsy showed that she
was beaten all over the head, the face, she was almost unrecognizable,
and then stabbed repeatedly. Another interesting thing that kind of confused the police is
I told you that there was no break ins, no sign of a break
in. There were two things that were taken. It was a video recorder
of VCR okay of VCR but not the remote the VCR and a stereo.
But again all this month cash in the purse and the police were like,
this is not making any sense. And then whoever came in just went fifty
yards away and dumped the murder weapons. I'm sure she had jewelry on that
was probably more she did. She did have jewelry too. On March twenty
fifth, so this is a week later, the sheriff and the district attorney
held another news conference and they issued an award. They authorized the sum of
ten thousand dollars, which is the equivalent of twenty five thousand, four hundred
and thirty dollars and twenty six cents for any information relating to the case.
They did get a tip, and it's pretty interesting. Oh, I can't
wait to hear it. Someone from the church congregation really reached out to them.
The police don't know how, but this person, and I believe it's
a female, came across a Valentine's Day card, uh oh in Charles' desk.
Oh And it was not from Li. It was not from Liz.
Oh shit, it was from another member of the congregation, oh man.
And it was very telling. In the card it described a sexual relationship.
I don't know exactly what the card said, but it led police to believe
Charles was definitely an affair and this woman he was having an affair with was
not only a member of the congregation, but also a friend of the Senate
family. Damn, the plot thickens just when you think there's some good guys
I know, right man a pastor lovely wife. This obviously made them really
want to talk to Charles, and they'd already talked to him twice, but
this time it was different. They were going to put the pressure on him
again. This is about a week later. Charles came in for more extensive
questioning. They didn't publicly name him as a suspect, but they were convinced
he knew more than he knew. But again, he had an alibi.
When they met with Charles, they told him, we know about the affair
and we believe that you were involved in the killing of your wife. Charles
was pretty shaken. Oh yeah, guess but the jig is up. Yeah,
because they spoke to the woman that gave him the card. Oh shit,
she came in. She admitted to the affair, and she admitted to
giving Charles three thousand dollars because Charles had a lot of debts. Oh fuck,
okay, Number one, never give money to your married boyfriend, and
think about it. If ten thousand is twenty five thousand. Now she gave
him three Yeah, that's like a little more than a third. Yeah,
like nine grand, eight grand to pay off debts. Yeah, to pay
off debts. And interestingly, Charles took out a life insurance policy a few
months before Lizu's died. Of course he did. He was in a great
deal of debt for what that is something we don't really know. We don't
know. But something you should know about Charles is for a few years he
was unable to work as a pastor. He was a pastor and he also
sold burial vaults. Oh okay, so he had two jobs and he was
really stressed out and he became extremely depressed. He had to see a psychiatrist
and he even reached out to a neurosurgeon in desperation because he was taking medications.
He was taking lithium. Oh damn. He did seem to get better,
but he still had these ups and downs with his moods. But through
time he got better. He wasn't a pastor for about two years. Then
he started working again as a pastor, and I know he was selling those
burial vaults, but I don't know if he continued to do that full time.
So that's how the family had some money. Yeah, But when Charles
was depressed and he couldn't work as a pastor. That's when Liz stepped up
to the plate and she began working as a secretary. Oh okay, but
she only worked part time and then she was still a full time mom trying
to help Charles get through those rough times. So that's a little background in
Charles. Yeah, I can see them going into debt when he's not working
full time and she's not working full time, and it adds up. Eventually.
The woman that wrote the Valentine's Day letter or gave him the card lawyered
up. She's done. Yeah, that's all I got to say. Yeah,
that's all I have to say. Again, Charles, was I told
you interrogated and freaked out. The police told him all of like everything they
knew, and Charles left the police station and he went to his family's house
where Chuck and Mike were and he talked to them and you know what he
told him what he told him that he was involved, he is the death
of their mother. Oh, it's terrible, and that he'd had an extra
marital affair. He confessed to them. Wow, And obviously they were very
upset. Yes, and Charles was very upset. I can't even imagine the
fucking tension, right. I can't imagine telling your kids this. I was
involved in it, by the way, and I cheated on her and I'm
a pastor. Yeah, and they've got to be okay, twenty five,
twenty three, twenty two ish because they were married. No, I think
they're in their teens. Really, I think they're like nineteen and seventeen,
okay. And I believe he was with his family too. Oh damn.
So everybody's freaking out. Everybody's yelling and crying, and Charles steps outside and
he's visibly upset. He goes to his pickup truck parked outside, and then
within moments, oh no, a deafening boom shattered. Was still messick.
The family rushed out and they found that Charles he was slumped over in the
cab of his truck and he had a gunshot wound to his chest. But
he wasn't dead. Oh shit. So EMS comes and they had called the
police too, and one of the detectives I think his name was Ron May
I could be wrong, went into the truck, the EMS vehicle. Charles
was still alive, and this detective was hoping that he might be able to
answer questions. Though I believe he was unconscious, He's still hoping he might
wake up for a second, but he didn't. In his pocket there was
a note, and the note basically confessed that I was involved. I'm so
sorry for what I did to my kids. I'm sorry for what I did
to my wife and to this community. He felt deep remorse and pain,
and he said he never really intended to hurt her, but he became entangled
with some unsavory individuals. Okay, and he said that the reason he killed
himself was to save his family from any further shame and embarrassment. Charles died
in the emergency room, the same place his wife had died. Damn well,
she died at the same hospital. Yeah, the Helen Keller Hospital one
week later, at six forty pm. God, his poor kid, I
know, to lose their mom and then find out, okay, your dad
was involved, and then he kills himself. Oh man, And they saw
it shot in the truck. These poor kids, poor kids. Then an
anonymous tipster called into crime Stoppers, and this female knew all the details down
to the tee of everything that took place. She even knew the serial number
of the vcr in that there was no remote. The remote was the remote
was missing? Yes, she called crime stoppers. She eventually talked to the
police, and she did get the reward money because she was pretty adamant about
she got the reward money. Well, she did help them solved. She
did the crime. Was it the girlfriend? Wait? Wait, we don't
know because it's anonymous. Yeah, g I wonder who it was. This
is what is believed to have happened. Charles apparently approached a man named Billy
Williams. He was twenty two years old. He was a tenant renting an
apartment. From the sentence, they owned some property and it was early March
of nineteen eighty eight. During that when he approached Billy, he kind of
had a I would like to say questions, feeler questions for Billy because Billy
was a bit of a shady character. Okay. Basically, he tried to
figure out if Billy would be willing to kill for three thousand dollars three thousand,
the magic three thousand dollars Yes, oh boy, and Billy was like,
I gotta think about this. And then he reached out to two of
his friends, Kenny Smith and John Forrest, Parker, and he offered them
each one thousand dollars if they would kill kill Liz. And by the way,
Billy didn't plan on killing her. He was going to be the middleman.
Oh okay, he's going to keep a thousand for doing nothing, and
they're gonna go and they're gonna kill Liz, damn all with the money that
Charles had gotten from his miss On the day that Liz died, Kenny and
John they showed up at our house. They knocked on the door and they
told her, your husband said we could check out your property for hunting purposes.
And she thought, okay, this is weird. This has never happened
before. So she calls Charles on the phone and asks him, I think
he was at the church. Did you agree for these two guys to check
out a property? And Charles says, yes, I did. So they
walked through the house and Liz takes him out to the back and they look
at the property. Why they didn't kill her right then and there, we
don't know. But eventually they came back inside and they started talking to Liz,
and then they started out in the kitchen, okay, and then from
behind John Parker started just punching her. He was hitting her and hitting her,
and then he took a wooden walking kane and I don't know whose wooden
walking cane it was, and he took a fire poker and both of the
men, Kenny and John, just start beating her. Oh damn. And
she begged for her life. After beating her and beating her, and she
was still alive. That's when John took the hunting knife and just stabbed her
and stabbed her and then caught her throat. Oh terrible. So the wooden
cane part of it had broken from beating her. So there was a piece
found by Lizz's body and the rest was in the pond. The police had
also found some hair next to Liz, and even though there was no DNA
at the time testing for DNA, they knew it wasn't Liz's and they knew
it wasn't Charles. They knew it was somebody else. Originally, John Parker
was given some money to go get a gun, to kill Liz with a
gun. Yeah, that would have been much neater. But he was on
drugs. Oh shit, Never give money to a drug addict. Yeah,
it was one hundred dollars and he was on drugs, so he used that
money for drugs and then grabbed the haunting knife to kill her that way.
Was it his or did they have any It was his? Yeah, given
the tipsters information, Billy Williams, he was arrested and so was John Parker
and Kenny and they all went to trial. Billy Williams, of course he
wasn't there for the murder, right, he just took a thousand dollars and
set it up. He alleged that he didn't do it, He didn't have
anything to do with it, blah blah blah, and he argued that this
is kind of interesting. He argued that even if he was involved in this
conspiracy to commit murder, it wasn't the two other guys. It wasn't John
and Kenny that killed Liz. Charles came back, Oh is that what he's
saying, and stabbed Liz, realizing she was alive. Oh, so they
just beat her and when Charles and home. Yes, he's saying that he
stamped Liz. But then how would all of the evidence be in the same
pond, Right, Charles just knew where to go and throw it away.
I don't think so. They didn't have cell phones. Billy Williams was only
twenty one years old when he was found guilty of capital murder, and it
took him three hours. He was sentenced to life in prison, so without
parole. He died of natural causes in twenty twenty two. That's a shame.
Sorry. Twenty twenty twenty. Then John Forrest Parker he went to trial.
His defense mounted a vigorous argument during his trial. They said that John
and Kenny were not hired by Charles to carry out a murder, but rather
to injure Liz. And again and again, Charles is the one that did
the final act. Man, they're hanging their hat on that. Come on,
now, really, you're beating her. And he paid me a thousand
dollars to injure someone and her face, I mean her. It was extremely
brutal. In fact, there was an argument that the autopsy photos shouldn't even
have been shown in court because they had too much of an emotional impact on
the jury. Oh miss, that's bad. It really fucked up. Yeah,
but it didn't take long for the jurors to decide John Parker did it,
and they only deliberated for one hour. One fucking hour. Tanya man,
they were like he did it. The jury came back with a recommendation
of life in prison without parole. But the judge, now, he didn't
really like that, and he decided to give him us damn right. Holy
shit, yeah, holy shit. John did everything he could to appeal,
but on June tenth, twenty ten, he faced the executioner. Mike and
Chuck senate the lives in Charles's. They were there at the execution. On
the day of the execution, John spent much of his time reading the Bible
and for his last meal, because we always liked to know what their last
meal's at, right, I'm always fascinated. I don't know why he had
fried fish. Oh, I would not pick that. French fries and sweet
tea. I would not pick that as a last meal. No, I
would have nacho. It's lots of nachos, lots of cheese, It's of
chocolate, sour cream this time. I usually don't get it heavy yet,
extra cheese, guacamole, and lots of chocolate. And then lobster. Oh,
lobster something expensive? Yeah right, Sorry, Tanya and I go on
these food porn things. Sorry, just thinking of food now, I just
would be like, just wet me up, like a bunch of chocolate,
maybe some cheesecake. I would eat so much garbage i'd throw off right.
Right. So Charles was forty two years old and at six forty one PM
he was pronounced dead. Lethal injection. Huh, lethal injection. Yeah.
Next came Kenny Smith. He added trial in Birmingham, Alabama, on October
thirtieth, nineteen eighty nine. He was the last one to be tried.
I'd be shitting bricks because look what I happened to the other two. Right,
he too, right. He tried to implicate Billy and John and Charles
not him. But if you're the attorney, I you know this hasn't worked
before, so we might want to take a plea. Yeah, but no,
man, that's a tough one. Is an attorney again? He said
that John and him just beat her. Sure, and Charles killed her.
And he did argue when he left she was alive. Oh, which is
true. That is true. However, that doesn't mean they didn't do was
that the proximate cause? Right? Thank you for your attorney stuff, the
attorney information. What's the word I'm looking for, spew Yeah, my spewing.
The legal terminology. Yeah, the proximate cause of her death was what
they did to her. So guess how long the jury deliberated for. Was
it less than an hour? Twenty minutes? Mad? They didn't even order
lunch. Nope, No, they wanted to get out. They were like,
let's get the fuck out. They agreed ten to two in a vote
for death. They weren't even gonna let the judge make that decision. It
took seventy five minutes for them to determine if you should die or not.
Well, took a little extra time, right, Well, you do want
to you want to go over that careful, Yeah, you do. He
appealed the sentence and it did get overturned. It did, so there was
a second trial and they introduced evidence the prosecutor did, including the fact he
did confess. He confessed to investigators and they found the stolen VCR in his
home. What a dumb fuck dude, really, But his appeal didn't work,
I'm guessing that, and he was sentenced to death for a second time.
He filed one last appeal, seeing you know the death penalty. He
is cruel, unconstant, Yeah, exactly, And he pointed out to previous
executions. So just you know, this is very recent. This is in
twenty twenty two that the state of Alabama had fucked up. There was Joe
Nathan James Junior, and he had a three hour delay because of they couldn't
get a line in him, and they claimed, you know, this is
like torture for somebody to be strapped down, Yeah, trying to get waiting
to die, waiting to die. On Tuesday, November fifteenth, twenty twenty
two, just two days before his execution was to happen, the US Supreme
Court denied his request to stop it. He was scheduled for November seventeenth,
twenty twenty two, at six pm, but there was a dramatic turn of
events and it was called off just before midnight. Oh. I'm like on
the edge of my seat, girl, this is crazy. So you have
to listen to this. They had until midnight to execute him. That's the
date of execution. Oh okay, And they couldn't get a vein Oh okay,
yes, because he was waiting and they were trying to find it,
trying to find well, this is it happened to another person that I was
describing before, Joe Nathan James junior. Yes, that's right, and they
tried to find a large enough vein and they couldn't. They dedicated over an
hour to get two veins to get the injection in and they couldn't. So
they had to stop the execution because it was midnight. Oh my god,
isn't that crazy? It is crazy technicalities. So he returned back to his
cell and death row. I would be dying. I'd be shitting a brick
at that point. Just fucking kill me. So there were a lot more
legal things I'm not going to go into and poor everybody with. But he
was given a new execution date of January twenty fifth, twenty twenty four,
and this time the state of Alabama opted to use death by nitrogen hypaxia instead
of lethal injection. Is that suffocating, I'll tell you. And there were
concerns that he was the guinea pig for this because it was the first time
a death room inmate in the United States was going to undergo execution by this
method. Yeah, I've never heard of this. And that is basically where
they have him breathe in nitrogen and he loses oxygen and so you kind of
suffocate, like suffocating, sort of yeah, damn leitrogen gas nitrogeny. But
I like nitrogen when I go to the dentist. That's yeah, nitrogen.
I hate that stuff. I love that stuff. Oh, I can't kidding
me. While he was breathing it in, he tried to hold his breath
as long as possible. Okay, I mean that's what's futile. I mean
there's no point, right, there's no point. And he was struggling against
his restraints. There were some involuntary movements in what looked like agonizing breathing.
But this is expected, Yeah, when you're restrained and you're losing oxygen.
According to one witness, he was a spiritual advisor named Jeff Hood. He
described the execution is the most horrible thing he'd ever seen. Oh no.
He stated that Kenny wore a mask through which the nitrogen was administered, and
he had intense convulsions when the gas was turned on, and he popped up
on the gurney. But he was restrained, so I guess he popped up
as much as he could gas being I don't know. That's his vivid account
of how it happened. And again the sentence children, Chuck and Mike,
they were there. They stated that it seemed like a lot of focus today
was on Kenny and his nitrogen whatever process, and it kind of upset us
a little bit. What's going on is overshadowed what actually happened. True,
I was just thinking that. So that was just this January. Yes,
and Charles and Liz are buried together. They are in a dual plot in
the cemetery. I don't know if i'd want to be buried next to my
husband who had me killed. I know, but it's not really her choice.
Yeah, I know she died and that's really sad in her family.
Yeah, I'm sure they reflected on this. Yeah, and you know he
was remorseful. I guess to the point he didn't want to live. He
just didn't want to go to prison. I'm sorry, she's so we don't
know that's true. But I don't know if that's true. But he did
plot for months, I mean, think about it. He took out life
insurance, got money from his mistress met weeks prior to the murder with these
guys, or at least Billy, and set it all up. Yeah,
and even when his wife called and asked, is it true you are allowing
these men on our property. He said, yes, right, And why
would he just want to injure defense? Because that's the stupidest thing I've ever
heard. I agree. So that is the story of the sad tale of
what happened to Elizabeth's senate, his senate, Liz, that's terrible. She
didn't deserve that. No, she was described as an amazing Yes, I
feel so bad for her children. I feel bad for her family. His
family too, frankly, and this is a terrible thing. I'm sure his
family was distraught as well. And she had a grand baby. Oh and
she just loved that grand baby. Man, I hate people, dude.
She had more than one, she had grandchildren. Do you know who mistress
was married? I don't know that. How I wish I that's the question
you have for me? Well, I wondered, like, what was the
point? So he's just killing her to pay off the bills or is he
killing her parents debt? Yeah, I pay off the bills and run away
with his mistress. I don't know. I'm just trying to figure out what
the motive is here. I know money is one of them. This to
me is the most craziest part is that there were never any problems in their
marriage. They didn't fight on the outside. They seemed perfect. They spent
a lot of time together. That just goes to show you you never know
who you're married to right right, or who your podcast co host is.
You never know. I could go, I could come and murder you.
You never know. To Leah, well, you know what's Tony, we
haven't done a long time. I am ashamed of us. I am ashamed
of us as well. We have shout outs, yes, and these are
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Yeah. The only problem with that is we don't get access to your name.
Yeah, so we can't give you, So we can't give you a
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