WEBVTT

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Welcome to the one hundred and fifty
third episode of the Supernatural Accurrent Studies podcast

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So Serial Killery Paranormal Jason Knight,
host of the show and with me as

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always is. The name is Spector
Oscar Spector, producer extraordinaire and podcast co

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host. Okay, you good,
I think so. I said, guys,

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this guy is Jonesing. I got
this new whiskey sitting right next to

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me, and and I just said, like, a we should try it

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on air in our opening. And
so he's it's the class has been sitting

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there and he's constantly I reached for
that glass ten times in the last ten

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minutes. Yes, I just keeps
Anyway, we were going to try this,

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Yeah, yeah, I'm really excited
about it. But this is a

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take two for us. Oh yeah, so I think you were going to

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mention it. Okay, Yeah,
Long Island Serial Killer Part two The Suspects.

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We already recorded this episode last week. Yeah. I was not happy

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with it. No, you weren't. I did not like the way the

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way I came out on it,
and I was very upset. I remember

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you said that. I didn't think
it was that bad as you said,

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But you are I mean, you
are your own worst critic, and I

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didn't argue with you either. I'm
yea, let's do it again, No

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big deal. Yeah, I appreciate
that. I felt bad. You came

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all the way up and I wasn't
on my Well, the trade off is

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I get to drink your booze and
whiskey, So like, I'm fine with

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it. Oh oh yeah, fair
enough. At least you could do long

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Drive. I don't know. I
came into that episode kind of went to

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chip on my shoulder. I was
a little angry at life that day and

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it kind of carried over into that
recording, and I just I like to

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be one take Jay, you call
it one time? Was at one take

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Jay? There were edits and fuck
ups and oh yeah there was one.

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There was one one five cup that
we had to edit around if I were

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to do that show. Yes,
one's enough. So here we are again,

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right, I'm really excited to finally
get into this episode. I know

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you took more notes, yes,
to ask more questions or theorize even deeper

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on this episode. I took I
was even taking you shouldn't do those listeners,

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But I am I'm not a professional, but I feel like I am.

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Some of these notes I took while
I was driving my way here.

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I'm just gonna scroll for you,
okay from here from the very top.

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Yeah, one, two, four, holy ship up to five good swipes

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up to there, so six swipes
Yeah on your screen. Holy shit.

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Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. Mm hmm. Well, I do

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have the benefit of that. I
do have the hindsight of we did shoot

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that up when I shoot, but
we did, you know, we core

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that episode is to take two,
so I we know the information going in.

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So it helps that I have all
these you know, new things.

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So that as cold as usual,
right right, right cool. I'm usually

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the you know, the odd man
out and figuring it out for the first

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time, like our listeners along with
them. So like, and I'm in

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the moment thinking of questions, but
oftentimes you think of better ones after,

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you know, always this is the
after. This is why I thought of

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more, because like I have more
time to think about it. Process ruminance

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good, then this should be a
really good ruminate. That's not a word

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rumenus. I think I put remnante
ruminus. Yeah, I like it though.

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Yeah, I understood what you said
because I just glossed English is whatever

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English is whatever we're contextual language.
It doesn't even really work. No,

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yeah, that much incredibly confusing language. What else? So Thanksgiving came and

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gone? That's right, Happy Thanksgiving? Motherfuckers related Thanksgiving? Yes, and

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yeah, yeah, there we go. That's it. I try to I

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mean, I got nothing. It'sn't
either, I mean to me, Thanksgiving

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is the in between holiday between two
better holidays. See, I really enjoyed

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things. I know you came up
Thanksgiving. Oh that's right, the first

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time ever, first time, Like
I've seen you in a lot of different

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times, like I've seen you.
I think I've seen you for New Year's

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Yeah, so yeah, I never
seen you for Christmas. But that's a

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very family thing. I haven't broken
that barrier yet. I've seen you for

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four the jivet many times, Halloween, Halloween a bunch of times, many

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times for that too. It's just
our first Thanksgiving. It was and it

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was very nice. It was very
nice. We're still drinking. The wedding

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is in June. The wedding registry
is at Creighton Barrel right in linens and

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things we mainly want the things I
don't I think either of those stores are

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still open? Are they? They
can't be. I don't know's I've never

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been to any really dated ourselves on
that one. Well we are dating.

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Oh my god, this is gonna
be I have almost forty pages. Yes,

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this is gonna go off the reils
quick, yes, uh so?

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Yeah. Thanksgiving was great. Glad
you came up here. We are going

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to release this episode sometime in December
before Christmas. It will not be after

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Christmas, I promise that. Do
you uh real quick on Thanksgiving? Real

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quick? What are your thoughts?
It seems to be like your thoughts on

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Thanksgiving is to always have a turkey. Yes, you're very pro turkey?

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Yes? Why are you pro turkey? Oh it's simply tradition, right,

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Okay, that's so I didn't I
figured it as much, you know,

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because you didn't watch football either.
But I know you're not sports guy.

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I'm not really a sports guy,
thank god. Honestly, thank honestly.

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I wouldn't come here if you expected
me to watch sports with If the Bears

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are playing, if the Packers are
playing, if New Orleans is playing,

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I'll watch for sure, But I
cut the cord. So it's very hard

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to find God. NFL live NFL
games pro for me so often. We

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saw Charlie Browns Thanksgiving though, Oh
we did. Did you say and watch

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that with us? Yes? Yeah? And Jason Jason versus Michael Myers thing

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don't walk, Oh yeah, don't
oh Michael the Jason Michael Miles were white

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right right? What the fan?
The fan I'm trying to think of what

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was called? Doesn't matter. People
can look. I would like them to

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look at U because it's YouTube,
just Jason versus Michael Myers. Yeah,

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YouTube, Okay, there you go, YouTube Jason Versus Michael Myers. I

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don't know the name of it.
It's a fan made film. It is

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fantastic. It's fun. Yeah,
it's a lot of fun, pretty much

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Hollywood quality. And there's also one
called, uh, never Hike in the

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Woods alone, Never hike again.
Never never hike in the Woods alone,

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I think, which is another fan
made, two part fan made Friday thirteen.

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Fantastic, just fantastic. Anyway,
I was asking about the Turkey is

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because I was listening to uh,
you know, I just do a podcasts

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and or talk to people about Thanksgiving
or brown Thanksgiving, so that's a topic

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and I never liked turkey it's a
weird bird. I usual don't like it

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when it's made. I did like
yours. I did like yours. You're

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one of the very few that that
made it well. But ultimately, and

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I heard there's in another podcast.
I'm not going to name them or whatever

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because that's free advertising for them.
But then they're good. They're doing good

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by the way they were like,
we never do turkey that we do ham

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or we do something else, and
like the reason is because turkey is just

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so hard to get right. It
could go wrong so oftenoy other meats are

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much easier to deal with, and
you have way more options to taste,

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and that like if you could get
the same things the same result with less

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effort, And I'm like, I
like that, and so that's why I

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want to ask you. Yeah,
it's purely tradition. I enjoy cooking it.

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I like working out. I think
I worked on that one for like

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six and a half hours, and
it's constant monitoring and monitoring and basting and

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making sure the heat is right and
that skin is getting crispy and you're getting

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the drippings underneath. I did like
the skin. It was good skin.

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Yeah, Like people in my family
fight over the skin of turkeys. I

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saw that. I saw a little
bit of that. I had to take

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it without anyone, Like. I
didn't ask. I just took it because

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I'm like, I'm not gonna went
I gotta give anyone that says turn first

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kidding me. Yeah, well,
I'm glad you liked it. And we're

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still drinking your orchata. Yeah,
I saw that. You know, it

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doesn't have a high shelf LI fight, Oh, drink it fast. Well,

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thanks, it's about as long as
the milk is so like, so

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we got to finish it quick.
Yeah, okay, really good. By

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the way, I'm glad you like
it. You're a chatta is very good,

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thank you. But speaking of drinks, right, let's get into so

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what do we have here? We
have all right, So I couldn't find

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this anywhere in any of my store, so I ordered online. I paid

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probably too much for this. But
it's Bargetown Bourbon m h. And it's

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their collaborative series. Now. I
found out recently about two years ago,

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two or three years ago, the
Pritzker family bought Bargetown Bourbon. Pritzker is

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famously for those sprinkler systems. No
sprinkler he's the governor of Illinois. Sprakler

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Pritzel. So his family, Oh
no, he does pretzels. Is that

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a thing? I'm just playing with
the name of us. Yeah, so

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your governor's family, Oh, bought
this distillery in Kentucky, Bardstown, which

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is known for putting out good whiskey's
as it is, And this is a

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collaborative series where they age the Bardstown
whiskey in Goose Island stout barrels. They're

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gonna say Republican votes, no,
no, uh, they actually aged the

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whiskey in Goose Island stout barrels.
So it's that collaborative series. And Prince

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Gerson's he's a governor of Illinois.
Makes sense they're using Goose Island. So

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I really wanted to try this,
okay, And I just got it in

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the mail a few days ago.
We just popped it tonight, poured it

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out about fifteen minutes ago, and
it is smelling. Oh, I love

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the smell. I'm smelling like I
can't the apple. Oh, don't ask

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me to identify the smell. I
just like it like a a taffy,

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kind of like a buttery taffy.
I was it's really gonna be like bourbon

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reviewers. So I have an idea
for a show. Okay, oh definitely

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Apple. Yeah, let's try this
baking spice. There's something else there.

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I feel it more on the way
down. I feel it right here.

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Yeah, Proof that terrible, honest
Hunter, Proof respectable. I like it.

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I think I like the other one
more, but I do like this

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one. The Taylor. Oh no, each sailor is always better. But

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like I meant, the film Land, Yes, of the film Land.

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Okay, I think I done a
little bit more. You can you can

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taste Okay there it is almost like
a cocoa chocolate something, which kind of

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makes sense because they're using that that
the stout barrels from Goose Island, and

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you know Goose loves cocoa. Geese
Geese love cocoa. Okay, yeah,

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definitely. So it tastes like the
Pixar movie. So weird. All right,

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Well, listeners, if you're into
Whiskey Bardstown collaborative series with Goose Island,

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it's if you at all, drink
your stars away, please try.

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It's smooth on the way down.
It's got that little little but it's not

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like lighting up my belly or anything. No, no, it's not doing

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that. It's not doing like those
little bottles you had at one party.

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You just have acid flatten bananas,
almost threw up. You had a little

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bit of the grape one. It
burned all the way down. I don't

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know why they make that ship to
murder us all exactly, All right,

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why don't we finish our whiskeys?
Take a break? Yes, come back

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and talk about some really crazy theories
about the Long Island serial killer. Yes,

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let's do it. Listeners, welcome
back to the show. Well,

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the lights are turned down low,
the ceremonial candle is lit, and the

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drinks are flowing. Let's start this
show. Okay, So this is a

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part two, right, oscar.
There's a lot they would have missed if

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they didn't hear in the first episode. A lot. So if you haven't

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listened to episode one yet where we
talk about the actual murders and the background

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here, make sure and go back
and listen because you will be lost.

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So it's part two. Warning.
Yeah wait, so big Neian sign.

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So in the last episode we introduced
you to eighteen young women sex workers plus

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two outliers. Remember we talked about
the Asian male and that female toddler,

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Peach's daughter found murdered across the US
from the East Coast to the West Coast,

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so twenty in total, bodies were
found on the south shore of Long

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Island, specifically at Gilgo Beach and
off Ocean Parkway. They were found in

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Manerville, Long Island, Las Vegas, Nevada, and in Atlantic City,

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New Jersey, and many people believe
that all these women are the victims of

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a single undetected killer known as the
Long Island serial Killer. We also introduced

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you to a group of women nicknamed
the Gilgo Four. Four sex workers accidentally

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discovered murdered at Gilgo Beach on Long
Island while authorities were out searching for another

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missing sex worker, a young woman
named Shannon Gilbert. Six additional bodies were

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discovered at or around Gilgo Beach and
off Ocean Parkway, and ten more bodies

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were found between Manerville, New York, which is also on Long Island,

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Las Vegas, and Atlantic City,
and all these women shared eerie similarities.

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The Long Island ceial killer preferred petite
female sex workers somewhere between one hundred pounds

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give or take, between twenty two
to twenty seven years old, with hazel

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or green eyes. Most of the
victims used the Internet to advertise their services,

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specifically Craigslist, which is how this
cycle found his victims. He shopped

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online when a cause of death could
be determined. Most of the women were

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killed by strangulation, while some were
horribly dismembered and their body parts scattered.

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Most were found near a body of
water, lying face down, wrapped in

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burlap or cloth with their heads facing
east, and some were bound by either

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belts or tape or both. Now
again, listeners, in case you missed

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it, please go back to the
last episode so you could learn the specifics

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about each victim, their names,
their backstories, and who was found where

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and in what condition. Also,
in the last episode, we played a

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really disturbing nine one one call made
by Shannon Gilbert the morning she went missing,

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the thing that kicked off this whole
nightmare. Without poor Shannon in that

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crazy nine to one one call,
police might have never known they had a

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vicious serial killer in their midst,
and the victim's bodies might have never been

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found. Now, in this episode, we're going to introduce you to a

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long list of suspects that might be
the Long Island serial killer. Or might

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have been working alongside the actual Long
Island serial killer, either by coincidence or

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by design. And at the end
of this episode, we're going to tell

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you all about the man that's in
custody right now, accused of being the

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actual Long Island serial killer. Accused, not convicted. That's important now,

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mind you. A lot of what
we're going to talk tonight talk about tonight

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is only theory and speculation, but
it's also incredibly interesting. And the fact

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that all this is still unfolding,
that we have no idea of police really

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have the guy responsible for murdering all
these women in custody makes these theories even

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more interesting to play with and talk
about. So let's get into these theories

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and see if any of them make
sense. Yes, I really can't wait

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00:17:10.680 --> 00:17:12.799
about it, because, like I
had a lot of you know, notes

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the first episode on part one,
which I assume everyone listening right now has

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listened to that already. Especially,
I have a lot on Gilbert. I

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have a lot on that phone call
relating to some of these suspects we're going

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to talk about, I think two
or three of them. It touches really

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on, and that was hopefully springboard
other talks as well, but they're all

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centered on the victims of course,
and the times and the locations of when

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they were missing and so on.
So like, yeah, I can't wait

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to get into it. Awesome.
Well, to start pulling, oh and

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you know, before we begin,
we're really getting in here, go to

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the show notes and check out photos
again. Oh yes, I have a

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ton of photos there of all these
suspects, and I think one new victim

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to one possible victim is there in
the show notes. But yeah, go

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ahead and follow along. As Oscar
you said last time, this is an

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interactive show, right, So go
and check out those photos. It's like

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a pop up book. But we're
podcasting and murder and murder, okay.

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So to start pulling at threads,
we got to look at that Oak Beach

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Association where Joe Brewer lived, where
Shannon Gilbert went missing in the early morning

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hours of May first, twenty ten. I mentioned in the last episode that

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Oak Beach Association was a secluded private
community, right, Well, apparently this

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is kind of an understatement. It's
more like its own little country back there,

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with lots of privacy and apparently lots
of secrets, filled with people who

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don't really like outsiders. Oak Beach
Association even had its own weird little doctor

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security guy someone will talk about in
a little bit. Definitely someone strange.

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Now. We also mentioned last episode
that Joe Brewer, the man that high

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00:19:00.200 --> 00:19:04.440
Shannon, was cleared of any wrongdoing. He's not a suspect officially. Brewer

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was just some dumpy, unemployed finance
guy looking for a good time. In

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00:19:10.640 --> 00:19:14.480
fact, when he was questioned by
police, Burr said he didn't even plan

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on having sex with Shannon that night. He just wanted some female company,

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which I called bullshit immediately on because
you know, as we are well aware,

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I hopefully well aware, and this
you're outside of the country and you're

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not aware. You should know that
prostitution is illegal in this in this in

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this country except for two counties,
of course, being in Nevada. That

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said, though, that's you know, when you're asked a question by the

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police whether or not you hired someone
or you paid money for sex, your

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answer should be known. So my
thinking is that he's just like covering his

255
00:19:48.599 --> 00:19:51.000
ass. That's what it seems like
to me when you're saying you're looking for

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a companionship. But that's what he
said. Yes, you just want a

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companionship. That's what everyone says.
That's what all the websites say, Like,

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that's what you say when you get
asked that question, but especially by

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authorities. You don't say, oh, yeah, I'm looking to the old

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and out and out, you know. You don't say that it's so rough,

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so wrong, so wrong. I
got that from a Coco corne by

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the way, Oh that's right,
they say that that movie. Uh sorry,

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I folks said that sounds really terrible
to say, but they said it,

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and it's obviously, uh, this
guy is covering his ass. Now

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whether or not I buy it?
Do you buy light detecting tests as all?

266
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Okay? But it does kind of
get police to move off of somebody,

267
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okay, or to push harder on
somebody if they fail. But it's

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not admissible in court so as time
as so they just use it as uh

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as like a way to start something. Yeah, it's if if someone fails

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00:20:44.880 --> 00:20:48.960
a light detector test, the cops
know to dig in there's something going on.

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If they pass, I guess we
got the wrong guy. Move on,

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and according to what's out there in
the news. Now, that's what

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happened with Joe Brewer and Michael Packed
if they both passed light detector tests and

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you buy this, you're fine with
as a person. Are you asking if

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I think Joe Brewer had more to
do with it than he claims. That

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was my next question, But no, I mean, in general, you

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think this is an okay way of
doing it. I hope there's more to

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00:21:17.559 --> 00:21:21.160
ruling out Joe Brewer than just and
Michael Pack than just the light detector test.

279
00:21:21.480 --> 00:21:23.279
I hope they have solid alibis.
I hope there's some sort of evidence

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that ruled them out, because otherwise
they should be looking because that's where she

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00:21:27.200 --> 00:21:30.279
disappeared from, and like you said, he definitely will right in the middle

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00:21:30.279 --> 00:21:33.000
of that storm. Yeah, I
mean they're at the eye of the storm

283
00:21:33.039 --> 00:21:37.200
exactly. And like you said,
he's just given an excuse. Of course,

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he hired her to fuck I mean
that's what that's what he did.

285
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So I hope there's more to it
than just a light detector test. They

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00:21:42.759 --> 00:21:45.839
asked the next question and a light
of detective test, and he's had the

287
00:21:45.839 --> 00:21:48.079
same thing and it worked. Like
I'm curious, like, well, yeah,

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you know, I'm saying, if
they ask him fight out, did

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00:21:51.000 --> 00:21:56.000
you kill Shannon, no checks out
right, but you have something right,

290
00:21:56.400 --> 00:21:57.160
well, what did he have something
to do with it? Though? You

291
00:21:57.200 --> 00:22:00.680
know? And then you ask,
well, yeah, I get we don't

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00:22:00.720 --> 00:22:03.079
know the questions either. We'll never
know that. I was just gonna say,

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I wish we knew the question.
We'll never know because again, this

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is not even a missible court.
That's highly doubt that they even have records

295
00:22:08.759 --> 00:22:11.359
of that kind of thing. You
know, they probably make up the questions

296
00:22:11.480 --> 00:22:15.160
down that day, you know,
it's not like yeah, thought, and

297
00:22:15.160 --> 00:22:18.599
I'm sure there's a record of it
somewhere. We'll never get to see it

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00:22:18.920 --> 00:22:21.640
because he's not in court, right, there's no reason to release that stuff,

299
00:22:21.720 --> 00:22:23.200
right. I think that most that
might go to court, he'll go

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00:22:23.240 --> 00:22:27.119
to court is only as a witness. That's just the most the most to

301
00:22:27.160 --> 00:22:32.119
see him involved right in the future, and it makes me want to It

302
00:22:32.119 --> 00:22:34.759
makes you curious about it because Light
attacked her like that's it. Like I'm

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00:22:34.759 --> 00:22:37.920
not saying they're super easy to beat, not saying that. I've never been

304
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on one, so I don't really
know. But I'm really bad at testing.

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00:22:40.680 --> 00:22:42.559
Though I'm a bad tester, I'm
just a bad liar, you know.

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I think he would be a bad
liar too, I would. Yeah,

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00:22:48.640 --> 00:22:51.160
that's a character trait to be a
bad liar. That's a good that's

308
00:22:51.200 --> 00:22:53.920
kind of good thing. Yeah,
but no, I think he definitely he

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didn't hire her for just companionship to
hold hands and watch Netflix. He wanted

310
00:22:59.000 --> 00:23:02.599
to do some de Butcher's shit,
and you know it was an agreed upon

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00:23:02.680 --> 00:23:06.640
transaction. Hey whatever, Yeah,
right, but something from his fucking house.

312
00:23:06.880 --> 00:23:10.200
So I hope there's more than a
lot of detector tized Yeah, And

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I hope that answers your question how
I feel about it. So basically,

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00:23:12.480 --> 00:23:15.680
at the end of the day,
you know, he's kind of a nobody

315
00:23:15.400 --> 00:23:18.079
so far in this story. Yeah, maybe something will come out later on

316
00:23:18.079 --> 00:23:22.000
down the line, but right now
he's he's kind of a nobody. But

317
00:23:22.119 --> 00:23:26.440
the word around the Oak Beach Association
campfire is that his house, Joe Brewer's

318
00:23:26.440 --> 00:23:30.799
house, because it's kind of secluded
and out of the way, was a

319
00:23:30.839 --> 00:23:36.079
party house. It's out of the
way more than the other houses. It's

320
00:23:36.119 --> 00:23:37.960
already out of the way, right, Yeah, Yeah, it's already secluded.

321
00:23:38.039 --> 00:23:41.079
This place is a secluded there's even
more secluded from the out o way.

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00:23:41.119 --> 00:23:45.440
He's kind of off somewhere in the
subdivision where he's more secluded than the

323
00:23:45.440 --> 00:23:48.839
rest, like he's put on time
out. Yeah, kind of okay,

324
00:23:48.680 --> 00:23:52.839
But because of this fact that he's
kind of off on his own in this

325
00:23:52.920 --> 00:23:59.640
subdivision, that's where parties went on. Male parties. They would gather there

326
00:24:00.319 --> 00:24:03.680
private and they could basically do whatever
they want. Drugs, higher escorts,

327
00:24:04.160 --> 00:24:08.119
lots lots of debaucher of shit,
right, just men behaving badly. Yeah,

328
00:24:08.160 --> 00:24:11.640
And apparently it was this open secret
around Oak Beach. No one really

329
00:24:11.680 --> 00:24:18.400
said anything. And I've even seen
in interviews with some of Joe's neighbors that

330
00:24:18.519 --> 00:24:22.759
they claim one of these male parties
was going down that night Shannon disappeared.

331
00:24:23.480 --> 00:24:29.200
So while there was a party going
on, this guy got a sex worker

332
00:24:29.559 --> 00:24:33.400
to come to his house. My
immediate question to that is was it for

333
00:24:33.440 --> 00:24:36.559
the party? That's the implication,
like in a group kind of thing,

334
00:24:36.559 --> 00:24:37.720
and I mean a group org you
guys on one girl, which is called

335
00:24:37.720 --> 00:24:41.559
a gang bang, actually, but
that's I mean more like entertaining like a

336
00:24:41.559 --> 00:24:45.920
stripper type thing. Or is it
just for him? It could be all

337
00:24:45.960 --> 00:24:48.680
three. I mean, I assume
it's a big house because of the richness

338
00:24:48.680 --> 00:24:51.359
of it. So maybe he could
just see, you know, its secretly

339
00:24:51.359 --> 00:24:53.519
take her off somewhere while the party's
going on, right, have fun,

340
00:24:53.559 --> 00:24:56.960
and then come back. It could
be that sick. It's multiple floors,

341
00:24:57.119 --> 00:25:02.279
it doesn't look opulent. But we
kind of touched on this in last episode.

342
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I would live there because the goddamn
thing looks at the ocean, so

343
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it's got to be a million dollars
and the ocean. I do love the

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00:25:07.880 --> 00:25:11.119
ocean. But so yeah, he
could probably sneakerr off somewhere in the home,

345
00:25:11.200 --> 00:25:14.960
or someone could sneaker off in the
home, or multiple someone could sneaker

346
00:25:15.000 --> 00:25:17.640
off in the home if they wanted
to. But you know, there's no

347
00:25:17.720 --> 00:25:22.680
evidence directly proving that one of these
parties was going on, except for people

348
00:25:22.720 --> 00:25:26.440
in the association talking to the media
saying, yeah, Joe was having one

349
00:25:26.480 --> 00:25:29.920
of his parties that night, Like
there's there's tex threats going on that talk

350
00:25:29.960 --> 00:25:33.559
about it, sure, but no
one mentions that, Yeah, yeah,

351
00:25:33.039 --> 00:25:37.720
the hidden secret you know or the
known said, what's the what I'm looking

352
00:25:37.759 --> 00:25:41.559
for? Open secret? Open again? Yeah, So apparently it was also

353
00:25:41.599 --> 00:25:48.559
an open secret that powerful men joined
these parties. We're talking political figures,

354
00:25:48.039 --> 00:25:52.920
business leaders, rich guys and high
ranking members of the Suffolk County Police.

355
00:25:55.599 --> 00:26:00.119
So if that's true, did Shannon
see something or someone at that house that

356
00:26:00.160 --> 00:26:07.039
she wasn't supposed to were high profile
men behaving badly and instead of risking Shannon

357
00:26:07.119 --> 00:26:11.000
telling someone what she saw, was
it just take her easier to take her

358
00:26:11.039 --> 00:26:15.559
out to kill her? I mean, something went down at Bruce House that

359
00:26:15.640 --> 00:26:18.200
caused Shannon to freak out, and
as you heard in the last episode,

360
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she was very clear to nine one
one that she was afraid for her life

361
00:26:22.039 --> 00:26:26.880
that someone was trying to kill her. But on the other hand, it's

362
00:26:26.920 --> 00:26:32.440
also claimed that Shannon was mentally ill
I believe schizophrenic, and she was known

363
00:26:32.440 --> 00:26:36.880
to use drugs. So was Shannon
ultimately a victim of her own demons?

364
00:26:37.519 --> 00:26:40.720
Kind of like what the official police
word says, how you know, she

365
00:26:40.799 --> 00:26:44.119
was high on drugs, she ran
into this Marshy area, fell ran out

366
00:26:44.119 --> 00:26:47.279
of gas, and drowned. So
was she a victim of her demons?

367
00:26:47.400 --> 00:26:49.960
Or was something really shady going on
with someone really trying to kill her?

368
00:26:51.440 --> 00:26:56.160
And unfortunately we'll probably never know,
but we do know what happened with Shannon's

369
00:26:56.160 --> 00:27:00.559
sister Sarah and her mental illness.
Remember very end of last episode, Shannon's

370
00:27:00.559 --> 00:27:04.000
sister murdered her fucking mother. Yep, sabbed her over like what two hundred

371
00:27:04.000 --> 00:27:10.000
and forty seven times. So mental
illness does run in the family. So

372
00:27:10.079 --> 00:27:14.000
we don't know demons or really murder. But to stick with this idea that

373
00:27:14.039 --> 00:27:18.079
Shannon ran a foul of someone at
Joe Brewer's house, let's take a look

374
00:27:18.079 --> 00:27:22.160
at our first theory. Now,
this first theory is that the Long Island

375
00:27:22.200 --> 00:27:27.799
serial killer is actually a cop,
and not just any cop, but the

376
00:27:27.799 --> 00:27:33.960
former chief of the Suffolk County Police
himself, a man named James Burke,

377
00:27:34.039 --> 00:27:40.799
who is chief from twenty twelve to
twenty and fifteen. Now, remember the

378
00:27:40.839 --> 00:27:45.680
Gilgo four were found in December of
twenty ten, and Shannon Gilbert was found

379
00:27:45.680 --> 00:27:49.880
in December twenty eleven. So Burke
comes in as chief of police right as

380
00:27:49.920 --> 00:27:53.400
the Long Island serial case killer case
is really ramping up. You know,

381
00:27:53.480 --> 00:27:57.400
bodies have been found right in the
Headlines are going absolutely, the media is

382
00:27:57.400 --> 00:28:02.920
going crazy. Families want answer,
and it's clear that a serial killer or

383
00:28:03.039 --> 00:28:07.640
multiple serial killers are active in the
area. And what a perfect time for

384
00:28:07.720 --> 00:28:11.200
a brand new police chief to jump
in and give it as all to solve

385
00:28:11.240 --> 00:28:15.400
in the case and really make a
name for himself, right, But that's

386
00:28:15.440 --> 00:28:18.480
not what happened. In fact,
it seems James Burke went out of his

387
00:28:18.519 --> 00:28:23.960
way to derail the investigation, and
critics have long claimed that Burke set the

388
00:28:25.000 --> 00:28:30.160
Long Island serial killer murder investigation back
by years by refusing help from the FBI.

389
00:28:32.480 --> 00:28:36.279
Well. For example, in December
of twenty twelve, Suffolk County Police

390
00:28:36.400 --> 00:28:41.920
lead investigators wanted to meet with the
FBI's Behavioral Analysis Unit to try and get

391
00:28:41.920 --> 00:28:45.799
some help solving this case. But
the District Attorney of Suffolk County, a

392
00:28:45.839 --> 00:28:51.640
guy named Tom Spoda, and James
Burke, the chief, deemed the meeting

393
00:28:51.799 --> 00:28:59.319
unnecessary and basically stonewalled the FBI's involvement. It was also reported that Burke refused

394
00:28:59.359 --> 00:29:03.759
the FBI's offer to create a criminal
profile for the case. This is the

395
00:29:03.839 --> 00:29:08.079
chief of police and the DA flat
out refusing the FBI is offered to help

396
00:29:08.200 --> 00:29:15.279
solve a high profile serial murder case. Do you know them what? Because

397
00:29:15.319 --> 00:29:18.759
you see this on movies, which
I know it's not a source for facts.

398
00:29:18.880 --> 00:29:21.519
Not a great place to go if
you want to know how the world

399
00:29:21.559 --> 00:29:26.400
works. Necessarily, But what does
it take for the FBI to interfere or

400
00:29:26.440 --> 00:29:30.279
like, do they have to be
asked in this case? Because you know

401
00:29:30.319 --> 00:29:33.720
what I'm saying, like, what's
the criteria for them to get their asses

402
00:29:33.759 --> 00:29:38.160
involved? I think the help has
to be requested, Okay, if it's

403
00:29:38.200 --> 00:29:44.279
not, it's not they do with
state line crossing maybe because another state they're

404
00:29:44.279 --> 00:29:47.680
like the country's police when things cross
state lines and things like that, or

405
00:29:47.640 --> 00:29:51.759
there's a dispute over who's actually the
law there, they're the laws, right,

406
00:29:51.799 --> 00:29:56.000
That's like how I feel it works. So that local police agency has

407
00:29:56.119 --> 00:30:00.920
to, I guess, either ask
for or accept the help in order for

408
00:30:02.039 --> 00:30:04.319
to I don't think the FBI could
just jump in and say move over,

409
00:30:04.400 --> 00:30:07.240
we're coming in. I think because
you see that's seen a lot of movies.

410
00:30:07.480 --> 00:30:10.880
Yeah, and I just I don't
believe it works that way. It

411
00:30:10.960 --> 00:30:14.400
certainly didn't in this high profile case. You would think, right, That's

412
00:30:14.400 --> 00:30:18.759
what I'm saying. Different you know, a criminal behavioral analysis, a profile,

413
00:30:18.839 --> 00:30:22.519
and the woor free. Yeah right, they don't have to pay for

414
00:30:22.559 --> 00:30:25.720
this, right right, So you
think if they could come in and take

415
00:30:25.720 --> 00:30:30.480
it over, they would have.
But the district attorney and the chief said,

416
00:30:30.519 --> 00:30:33.759
we don't need you, this isn't
necessary. We got this right basically,

417
00:30:36.799 --> 00:30:40.119
And so a lot of people ask
why why did they why did they

418
00:30:40.160 --> 00:30:42.720
refuse to help? Was there enough
I'll cry on this like at that time

419
00:30:42.880 --> 00:30:48.599
or is this something that just people
complained about after like way too late?

420
00:30:48.599 --> 00:30:51.000
Maybe? So I think that's part
of the problem is that in the beginning

421
00:30:51.920 --> 00:30:56.359
nothing was being done. Do you
remember Shannon Gilbert's mother, Mary was always

422
00:30:56.359 --> 00:31:00.960
out there. They waited five months
before even into viewing gus Coletti. Right

423
00:31:02.279 --> 00:31:06.920
then the lady realized that Shannon nine
to one one girl was the same girl

424
00:31:06.920 --> 00:31:11.119
that was reporting miss reported missing?
Right obvious or easy to find? Right?

425
00:31:11.359 --> 00:31:14.480
Yeah, it's and that's part of
the conspiracy is that the police,

426
00:31:14.559 --> 00:31:18.240
it seems, sat on their hands
for a very long time on this case.

427
00:31:18.599 --> 00:31:21.119
Then they went ahead and fled out, refused help from the FBI.

428
00:31:21.240 --> 00:31:22.799
So people are like, wait a
minute. Victim's family is like, wait

429
00:31:22.839 --> 00:31:26.440
a minute, what's going on.
I remember you were mentioning also that you

430
00:31:26.440 --> 00:31:29.279
know, as find it hard to
believe they wouldn't trace that call during the

431
00:31:29.319 --> 00:31:33.559
twenty one minute you know nine one
call, or that they wouldn't have dispatched

432
00:31:33.599 --> 00:31:37.240
police officers and they would have gone
their way before it was too way before

433
00:31:37.279 --> 00:31:41.079
the call ended, even, right, And that to that, I kind

434
00:31:41.079 --> 00:31:45.480
of say, like, well,
there was this one time that I,

435
00:31:45.480 --> 00:31:48.839
by Musa, was next to someone
that called the police, Rob actually,

436
00:31:48.039 --> 00:31:52.640
and I was there and he called
the police during this thing we were doing

437
00:31:52.200 --> 00:31:56.680
late one night and we were two
or three blocks away from the police station.

438
00:31:57.240 --> 00:32:01.880
They never came. It was there
for a while too, more than

439
00:32:01.920 --> 00:32:06.519
twenty Oh oh my god, they
never came. Now that's just that's just

440
00:32:06.599 --> 00:32:10.319
Chicago. It sounds that could be
us, but that happened, And I'm

441
00:32:10.359 --> 00:32:15.240
just saying I'm not surprised hearing that, you know, yeah, yeah,

442
00:32:15.359 --> 00:32:20.319
yeah it And part of the reason
could be that the police took so long

443
00:32:20.400 --> 00:32:23.559
to get there is because the dispatcher
was trying to figure out what county she

444
00:32:23.720 --> 00:32:28.039
was calling from. Remember there,
I remember that, two different counties.

445
00:32:28.960 --> 00:32:31.160
That could be the reason, But
man, I don't know, twenty three

446
00:32:31.200 --> 00:32:35.200
minutes is a long time. Plus
they were getting multiple calls from neighbors.

447
00:32:35.720 --> 00:32:37.079
You think someone had said, all
right, just someone get out there and

448
00:32:37.160 --> 00:32:43.079
check this out. Yeah. I
also have a question about her mental illness.

449
00:32:43.079 --> 00:32:46.519
I guess, yeah, her mental
check stuff because there's a history of

450
00:32:46.559 --> 00:32:49.480
it, for sure. I'm not
saying that. You know, just because

451
00:32:49.480 --> 00:32:52.480
one member of your family has schizophrenia
doesn't mean that everyone has it either.

452
00:32:52.519 --> 00:32:54.680
But she could have a version of
that or something. I can buy that

453
00:32:54.720 --> 00:32:58.920
completely. I'm not saying that.
I remember in the first episode one of

454
00:32:58.960 --> 00:33:01.759
fifties you guys that we talked about
how there was no drugs found in her

455
00:33:01.759 --> 00:33:07.640
system. If she is someone that
has mental health issues, then most likely

456
00:33:07.680 --> 00:33:10.960
she's getting it treated daily, something
that she takes in daily. So was

457
00:33:12.000 --> 00:33:15.640
that did they test for something like
that, did they find that, or

458
00:33:15.720 --> 00:33:19.960
is there like a lack of taking
them that led to this. Maybe it

459
00:33:20.039 --> 00:33:23.799
led to something that could explain her
behavior or vice versa. Maybe like she

460
00:33:23.960 --> 00:33:28.200
took them or this is a completely
normal reaction. You know, it's hard

461
00:33:28.240 --> 00:33:30.200
to tell. But the fact that
there was no drugs in the system,

462
00:33:30.240 --> 00:33:36.799
if she has mental some mental issues
that requires drugs, like schizophrenia, she

463
00:33:36.920 --> 00:33:42.039
should be that she should be shown
on the autopsy. Yeah, I read

464
00:33:42.599 --> 00:33:46.079
I read doctor Michael Badden's autopsy report
right, and it did not talk about

465
00:33:46.119 --> 00:33:52.319
any sort of a regular medicinal that
she was taking rug use. Yeah,

466
00:33:52.400 --> 00:33:55.119
nothing did mention anything like that?
Right, And we don't and we don't

467
00:33:55.119 --> 00:33:58.680
know, right, we don't know
something we don't know offer meds to well,

468
00:33:58.680 --> 00:34:00.519
we don't know if I mean,
we don't know if she even had

469
00:34:00.559 --> 00:34:02.079
to take that true, Like we
know how bad it is. It was

470
00:34:02.240 --> 00:34:05.799
sorry, if it existed, right, or if it existed at all?

471
00:34:05.880 --> 00:34:08.079
Right. I feel like in these
kind of cases always seems to just like

472
00:34:08.159 --> 00:34:13.719
treat the victim as if they're saying, why I start there and then work

473
00:34:13.760 --> 00:34:16.480
your way but down? You know, right, isn't that the very essence

474
00:34:16.599 --> 00:34:21.480
of planning for the worst but hoping
for the best? Yeah, it is,

475
00:34:21.599 --> 00:34:24.760
right, Like that's what bugs me. The whole thing is fishy.

476
00:34:24.880 --> 00:34:28.320
Yeah, and it sucks that we'll
never know, No, we'll never know.

477
00:34:29.440 --> 00:34:35.639
It sucks. So we were talking
about James Burke, Yes, no,

478
00:34:35.639 --> 00:34:38.320
no, and people ask, well, why did he stonewall the FBI's

479
00:34:38.360 --> 00:34:43.800
involvement. It's because Burke isn't a
good guy. This is not a good

480
00:34:43.880 --> 00:34:47.039
chief of police. It's crooked as
fuck. Actually, and as it turns

481
00:34:47.039 --> 00:34:51.760
out, so was the district Attorney
Tom Spoda. But we're gonna get to

482
00:34:51.800 --> 00:34:54.119
that. But Now, as far
as Burke goes, this is a guy

483
00:34:54.159 --> 00:34:58.559
that used to tell people that he
wanted to become a cop so he could

484
00:34:58.559 --> 00:35:00.519
break the law. These guys,
he said, to break the law,

485
00:35:01.639 --> 00:35:04.920
and that's why he wanted to become
a cop, so we could break the

486
00:35:05.000 --> 00:35:07.679
law. This is the kind of
person we're dealing with. So basically,

487
00:35:07.719 --> 00:35:13.119
Burke wanted to prevent the FBI from
working with the Suffolk County PD so his

488
00:35:13.280 --> 00:35:20.679
own terrible behavior wouldn't be exposed.
Because Burke, he really likes prostitutes like

489
00:35:20.719 --> 00:35:25.480
a lot. People describe him as
this sex obsessed narcissist, a short man

490
00:35:25.519 --> 00:35:30.320
with a Napoleon complex who was known
to have sex with prostitutes in his own

491
00:35:30.400 --> 00:35:36.039
service vehicle, in his own cop
car, where these women of less than

492
00:35:36.320 --> 00:35:43.599
you know, ideal character had access
to his gun and his badge. Exactly,

493
00:35:44.280 --> 00:35:47.679
you don't do this, yes,
now, this his behavior actually made

494
00:35:47.719 --> 00:35:52.639
it to the press and lurid tales
of his violence. Yeah, his violence

495
00:35:52.639 --> 00:35:59.079
towards sex workers were all over the
media. There were allegations he threw women

496
00:35:59.159 --> 00:36:02.599
to the ground and had been violent
with them during oral sex. And these

497
00:36:02.639 --> 00:36:07.000
allegations go all the way back to
the nineteen nineties when there was an internal

498
00:36:07.039 --> 00:36:15.199
investigation into burke sexual relationships with prostitutes. He's been accused of shaking down crack

499
00:36:15.280 --> 00:36:20.920
dealers, then using the crack himself
albanging prostitutes. He drove drunk and wrecked

500
00:36:20.920 --> 00:36:23.440
service vehicles and used his status to
get away with it. He think the

501
00:36:23.440 --> 00:36:27.760
woof Wah Street by worse. Yeah, just a puke of a guy,

502
00:36:28.360 --> 00:36:32.639
but he had powerful connections, namely
that DA, the District Attorney Tom Spoda,

503
00:36:34.239 --> 00:36:38.320
and Spoda helped Burke rise through the
ranks of the Suffolk County PD until

504
00:36:38.320 --> 00:36:43.719
he made chief of one of the
largest police agencies in the United States,

505
00:36:44.719 --> 00:36:49.639
despite his history of you know,
let's just call it less than honorable behavior.

506
00:36:50.960 --> 00:36:52.840
Now you may be asking how did
a guy like this get to be

507
00:36:52.960 --> 00:36:57.480
chief? And that's a great question, one that many people have asked over

508
00:36:57.480 --> 00:37:02.519
the years, and it all goes
back to a relationship Tom Spoda that the

509
00:37:02.760 --> 00:37:08.760
DA struck up with James Burke in
the late nineteen seventies, back when Spoda

510
00:37:08.840 --> 00:37:14.239
was just a young prosecutor and James
Burke was just a punk, a fourteen

511
00:37:14.320 --> 00:37:19.079
year old kid. You see,
back in nineteen seventy nine, SPODA was

512
00:37:19.119 --> 00:37:24.519
prosecuting an incredibly high profile case of
a murdered thirteen year old boy from Smithtown

513
00:37:24.639 --> 00:37:30.679
on Long Island, where James Burke
lived. At the time, SPODA was

514
00:37:30.760 --> 00:37:36.199
known to strike deals with these low
level criminals in exchange for their testimony,

515
00:37:36.880 --> 00:37:40.559
and whether or not the testimony was
factual seemed to sometimes take a back seat

516
00:37:40.599 --> 00:37:45.719
to securing a conviction. Now,
SPODA secured testimony from a fourteen year old

517
00:37:45.800 --> 00:37:51.719
kid, a small time weed dealer
who bragged about committing one hundred burglaries in

518
00:37:51.760 --> 00:37:55.519
his neighborhood, just a punk heading
down the wrong path. And this kid,

519
00:37:55.559 --> 00:38:00.480
of course, was James Burke.
Now, Burke's testimony helps SPODA secure

520
00:38:00.480 --> 00:38:07.079
convictions in this murder case, and
today there are huge doubts about the accuracy

521
00:38:07.119 --> 00:38:13.519
of Burke's testimony, but SPODA got
his convictions and ever since, Burke and

522
00:38:13.559 --> 00:38:16.239
Spoda were inseparable. In a lot
of ways, Spota was like Burke's mentor,

523
00:38:16.880 --> 00:38:21.880
and he definitely helped Burke rise through
the ranks of the Suffolk County PD

524
00:38:22.000 --> 00:38:28.440
and kind of insulate them from all
his craziness. Now, ultimately, Burke's

525
00:38:28.440 --> 00:38:31.519
career ended in disgrace after he was
convicted of beating the shit out of a

526
00:38:31.599 --> 00:38:37.320
junkie and a thief named Christopher Lob
and then covering the whole thing up.

527
00:38:37.719 --> 00:38:43.400
You see. On December fourteenth,
twenty twelve, police arrested twenty six year

528
00:38:43.400 --> 00:38:47.840
old Christopher Lob outside his mother's house
in Smithdown, New York for stealing a

529
00:38:47.920 --> 00:38:53.800
Duffel bag from the backseat of a
black GMC Yukon the duffel bag lobes stole

530
00:38:54.039 --> 00:39:00.000
contain items belonging to a cop,
ammunition, handcuffs, mason a gun,

531
00:39:00.039 --> 00:39:05.239
but the duffel bag also contained stuff
you wouldn't expect to find in a cops

532
00:39:05.280 --> 00:39:09.159
bag. Sitting in the bag,
next to the standard issue police gear were

533
00:39:09.239 --> 00:39:15.360
sex toys, butt plugs, lube, and what the media described as quote

534
00:39:15.480 --> 00:39:22.199
possibly illegal pornography like videos like tapes. Yes, ah, here's the kicker.

535
00:39:22.920 --> 00:39:28.760
Guess who the bag belonged to,
fuck James Burke Now. Loeb himself

536
00:39:28.800 --> 00:39:31.880
said he knew the bag belonged to
a cop because word on the street was

537
00:39:31.920 --> 00:39:36.960
that this particular cop was known to
shake down drug dealers and keep the drug

538
00:39:37.000 --> 00:39:39.639
for his own news. So Lob
went to this CoP's house and entered the

539
00:39:39.719 --> 00:39:45.639
SUV looking for drugs. Instead,
he got the crooked ass chief of Suffolk

540
00:39:45.679 --> 00:39:51.280
County Police's bag of smut. Word
hit the street that Burke's bag was stolen,

541
00:39:51.760 --> 00:39:55.360
and lob was very quickly apprehended at
his mom's house in Smithtown. Now,

542
00:39:55.360 --> 00:40:00.920
when Burke learned of Loeb's arrest,
he was so concerned about hiding the

543
00:40:00.920 --> 00:40:05.719
contents of his bag that he raced
over Loeb's mother's house and tampered with the

544
00:40:05.760 --> 00:40:10.199
crime scene, taking the Duffel bag
in direct violation of police procedure and protocol.

545
00:40:12.119 --> 00:40:15.360
So think about this for a second. In this scenario, Burk's the

546
00:40:15.480 --> 00:40:19.760
victim. So you have the victim
of a crime entering the crime scene and

547
00:40:19.800 --> 00:40:23.079
taking evidence. You can't do that. Nope, there's a chain of evidence,

548
00:40:23.239 --> 00:40:28.079
right, it's not it. Now. During Loebe's arrest, the cops

549
00:40:28.079 --> 00:40:30.519
slammed him to the ground and roughed
them up really good. But when his

550
00:40:30.559 --> 00:40:35.639
mother came out to protest, Loeb
was quickly whisked away to the Suffolk County

551
00:40:35.679 --> 00:40:39.199
Police station, where things got a
lot worse. Once at the station,

552
00:40:39.760 --> 00:40:45.000
Loeb wasn't read as rights and he
was flat out denied access to a lawyer.

553
00:40:45.960 --> 00:40:49.880
Instead, he was handcuffed and chained
to an eyebolt in the floor,

554
00:40:50.280 --> 00:40:53.440
hunched over and defenseless. He said
he was held in this position for ten

555
00:40:53.559 --> 00:40:59.519
hours. That's got to be torture
now. Eventually Burke entered the room and

556
00:40:59.559 --> 00:41:04.840
proceeded to beat the living shit out
of Lobe while threatening to kill him with

557
00:41:04.880 --> 00:41:07.519
the hot dose of heroin. Other
cops in the room, and yes,

558
00:41:07.519 --> 00:41:12.239
there were witnesses to this, they
threatened to rape his mother. These are

559
00:41:12.280 --> 00:41:16.239
good guys. Now. Apparently Burke
beat Lobes so badly that a detective had

560
00:41:16.239 --> 00:41:22.280
to intervene and physically pull Burke off
of the guy. Burke then threatened officers

561
00:41:22.360 --> 00:41:29.000
under him, who he referred to
as his palace guards fucking asshole, to

562
00:41:29.079 --> 00:41:35.800
keep their mouth shut or else.
Reportedly, he scared one cop so badly

563
00:41:36.199 --> 00:41:39.280
that later on on the witness stand, this cop lied about the incident under

564
00:41:39.320 --> 00:41:45.639
oath just to avoid Burke's wrath.
That's how afraid of Burkey was. So

565
00:41:45.599 --> 00:41:49.599
I'm curious, like, did he
pulled the detective that pulled them off him?

566
00:41:50.000 --> 00:41:52.559
Is this like from the heat of
beating him up? Is that what

567
00:41:52.599 --> 00:41:54.519
they were supposed to take from it? Or was he asking the guy questions

568
00:41:54.559 --> 00:41:58.039
and he wasn't giving him the right
answers. I think he's a little bit

569
00:41:58.079 --> 00:42:01.440
of both, Okay, yeah,
more leaning towards just beating the shit out

570
00:42:01.440 --> 00:42:05.440
of them, right. And three, he seems to really enjoy putting a

571
00:42:05.480 --> 00:42:07.440
person down. And look at his
picture in the show notes. Wait do

572
00:42:07.480 --> 00:42:12.280
you see this guy? I mean
you could just see it. He's just

573
00:42:12.320 --> 00:42:15.199
got that face and the mustache.
You know what I mean? That pushbroom

574
00:42:15.280 --> 00:42:19.800
mustache happens when you like ignore shouldn't
behaviors early on in child you know,

575
00:42:19.840 --> 00:42:22.480
when you think of the young people
and stuff, when they start something like

576
00:42:22.519 --> 00:42:24.239
that, when you ignore the kind
of thing, this is how it's nowballs

577
00:42:24.360 --> 00:42:29.039
and to worser worser. Well,
then you got people protecting him. So

578
00:42:29.119 --> 00:42:31.320
he's got like carp blonche just your
tactics, galore, Let that id out

579
00:42:31.360 --> 00:42:37.960
man, and the ID takes over, yikes man. Christopher Lowe would go

580
00:42:37.039 --> 00:42:42.480
on to sue the Suffolk County PD. James Burke resigned from his position in

581
00:42:42.519 --> 00:42:49.039
October twenty fifteen, and in February
twenty sixteen, after a lengthy FBI probe,

582
00:42:49.440 --> 00:42:54.480
Burke pled guilty to federal charges of
violating Christopher Lobe's rights and knowingly conspiring

583
00:42:54.559 --> 00:42:59.719
to conceal evidence of it. He
was sentenced to forty six month in federal

584
00:42:59.719 --> 00:43:04.719
prison and along with three years of
supervised release. Now Tom Spoda, the

585
00:43:04.800 --> 00:43:08.440
DA and the guy that helped Burke
stonewall the FBI's assistance with the Long Island

586
00:43:08.480 --> 00:43:14.679
serial killer case, was convicted in
twenty nineteen to five years in prison for

587
00:43:14.760 --> 00:43:20.039
witness tampering, obstructive justice, and
conspiracy and effort to help Burke hide his

588
00:43:20.119 --> 00:43:24.199
crimes against Christopher Lobe. Just corruption, through and through. And that's years

589
00:43:24.239 --> 00:43:28.719
after, from top to bottom.
Yeah, that's the years after. But

590
00:43:28.880 --> 00:43:31.159
the damage has been done on the
case anyway. Oh right, it's already

591
00:43:31.159 --> 00:43:36.119
set back. Like you sit back, I get too fucking late. It's

592
00:43:36.119 --> 00:43:38.440
set back. Rumors are running rampid
that the cops don't care, that it's

593
00:43:38.440 --> 00:43:40.599
a cover up. I mean,
he did a lot of damage. But

594
00:43:40.599 --> 00:43:43.920
it also goes hand in hand with
what you said in the first episode,

595
00:43:43.960 --> 00:43:47.360
too is a part one where like
you know, they don't care about sex

596
00:43:47.400 --> 00:43:51.199
workers. That's what these victims are. Theyn't give a shit, that's what

597
00:43:51.199 --> 00:43:55.639
it certainly that backs that up more. Yeah, yeah, Now, it's

598
00:43:55.639 --> 00:44:00.679
really crazy, is that. Later
on in interviews, Christopher Lowe claimed that

599
00:44:00.719 --> 00:44:05.400
in Burke's duffel bag he found some
DVDs and on the cover of one of

600
00:44:05.440 --> 00:44:10.719
those DVDs was what appeared to be
a pre pubescent boy, and another DVD,

601
00:44:12.360 --> 00:44:16.000
which Loeb claimed to have watched and
even recorded bits on his cell phone,

602
00:44:16.840 --> 00:44:22.199
supposedly showed a girl on a bed
in a darkened room being tortured by

603
00:44:22.239 --> 00:44:24.920
a man in a mask. A
snuff film. In other words, oh

604
00:44:25.119 --> 00:44:30.360
okay. Now. It's important to
note that Christopher Loeb's DVD claims have never

605
00:44:30.400 --> 00:44:36.800
been verified publicly, nor has his
cell phone footage ever been seen. But

606
00:44:36.920 --> 00:44:40.400
what he claims he saw does recall
what was printed in the media about the

607
00:44:40.440 --> 00:44:47.039
Chief's duffel bag containing possibly illegal pornography
quote unquote right, and people speculate that

608
00:44:47.079 --> 00:44:51.760
the man in the snuff film,
the one torturing the woman, is none

609
00:44:51.840 --> 00:44:55.800
other than Chief James Burke. So
after all this, we finally get to

610
00:44:55.840 --> 00:45:00.880
our theory that James Burke is the
Long Island serial kill. He's corrupt as

611
00:45:00.880 --> 00:45:06.280
fuck, he has a documented history
of being violent towards sex workers, and

612
00:45:06.320 --> 00:45:10.320
he very obviously blocked the FBI from
assisting in the Long Island serial killer case.

613
00:45:12.719 --> 00:45:15.519
Also, if you remember from the
last episode, we said that the

614
00:45:15.599 --> 00:45:21.039
killer made multiple taunting calls to Melissa
Barthelmy's sister. I think believe he called

615
00:45:21.039 --> 00:45:23.199
her up to eight times, and
he also made a call to one of

616
00:45:23.280 --> 00:45:30.880
Marine Brainerd Barnes's friends. Each call
lasted just long enough to not be traced

617
00:45:30.119 --> 00:45:36.199
to an exact location and cell tower
pings, and a lot of these calls

618
00:45:36.559 --> 00:45:40.760
came from Manhattan, an incredibly busy
place loaded with people on cell phones,

619
00:45:42.400 --> 00:45:49.199
making any attempt at pinpointing a specific
phone or locating any video evidence impossible.

620
00:45:50.320 --> 00:45:55.119
Check any streetcam or security cam in
Manhattan and you'll see a thousand people talking

621
00:45:55.199 --> 00:46:00.760
on cell phones. How do you
identify a suspect? It's almost as if

622
00:46:00.760 --> 00:46:06.760
the killer understands police tactics and more
importantly, how to avoid them. And

623
00:46:06.800 --> 00:46:09.559
who understands police tactics better than a
cop in this case, a violent,

624
00:46:09.800 --> 00:46:15.079
crooked chief of police with a ravenous
taste for hookers. I hear something else.

625
00:46:15.960 --> 00:46:21.079
The victims found up and down Ocean
Parkway were actually found in two different

626
00:46:21.159 --> 00:46:25.280
counties, Suffolk County and Nassau County. And what do we know about these

627
00:46:25.639 --> 00:46:31.760
geographical lines When it comes to crime, information sharing and responsibilities suddenly become a

628
00:46:31.760 --> 00:46:37.599
little clouded and convoluted, hindering investigations. A cop would know that disposing bodies

629
00:46:37.599 --> 00:46:43.199
across multiple counties would make things more
difficult, not impossible, but definitely harder.

630
00:46:43.920 --> 00:46:45.920
And like we said, if you
listened to Shannon Gilbert's call that we

631
00:46:46.000 --> 00:46:50.480
plaid last episode, the nine one
one operator was trying to figure out whether

632
00:46:50.519 --> 00:46:53.559
Shannon was in Suffolk or Nassau County
so the correct cops could be dispatched.

633
00:46:54.800 --> 00:47:00.320
All of this is how James Burke
became an unofficial suspect in the Law Island

634
00:47:00.400 --> 00:47:04.840
murders. But again keep in mind, officially Burke has never been charged or

635
00:47:04.880 --> 00:47:07.119
even named a suspect or even looked
at. From what I can tell,

636
00:47:08.199 --> 00:47:13.360
there's only three people being looked at. The one accused currently and the two

637
00:47:13.400 --> 00:47:17.239
people like the one that drove from
Shannon Gilbert and and the other guy Joe

638
00:47:17.280 --> 00:47:22.320
Brewer Gilbert thank you. Yeah,
I'm bad with names. But when you

639
00:47:22.360 --> 00:47:24.519
take all his circumstantial evidence, that's
what it is, it's circumstantial evidence.

640
00:47:24.960 --> 00:47:29.360
You can see how some people could
think he was the killer, right m

641
00:47:29.519 --> 00:47:32.960
H. It's also rumored that Burke
and his lackeys were part of the boys

642
00:47:34.039 --> 00:47:37.679
club that partied at Joe Brewer's house, and therefore Burke could be involved in

643
00:47:37.719 --> 00:47:43.760
Shannon Gilbert's death or he was at
Joe Brewer's house tonight Shannon Gilbert went missing

644
00:47:44.159 --> 00:47:47.400
and is helping to cover up for
someone. But who now An attorney for

645
00:47:47.440 --> 00:47:52.280
Shannon Gilbert's family, guy named John
Ray. We talked about him in the

646
00:47:52.320 --> 00:47:55.880
last episode. He came forward with
the sworn statement from a sex worker who

647
00:47:55.960 --> 00:48:01.280
said that she witnessed Burke used drugs
and party with sex workers on two occasions

648
00:48:01.719 --> 00:48:07.400
in the Oak Beach Association where Shannon's
remains were found. At least one of

649
00:48:07.400 --> 00:48:12.199
itch took place in twenty eleven,
meaning Burke was doing this while the Long

650
00:48:12.199 --> 00:48:15.639
Island serial killer investigation was in full
swing. So what do you think was

651
00:48:15.639 --> 00:48:19.320
that at the same house? So
no, never said, never said,

652
00:48:19.599 --> 00:48:24.079
just in Oak Beach Association, never
pinpointed to Brewer's house. Do you think

653
00:48:24.119 --> 00:48:28.280
we have a killer cop on our
hands? Well, the I mean,

654
00:48:28.280 --> 00:48:31.840
as far as this theory goes,
the suspect looks very pretty fucking suspicious.

655
00:48:31.880 --> 00:48:35.960
Looks very tasty. Yeah, it
looks like he's he's the guy. I'm

656
00:48:36.000 --> 00:48:37.800
not saying he's the guy, but
like he's only our first suspect, guys,

657
00:48:37.800 --> 00:48:45.199
but he looks like a really good
candidate. The anger management or mismanagement

658
00:48:45.239 --> 00:48:50.679
really and his lifestyle in general,
his I mean the cop tactics you mentioned,

659
00:48:50.719 --> 00:48:53.599
the fact that he would know about
the Selping towers. Makes sense to

660
00:48:53.639 --> 00:48:58.360
go to a crowded area, especially
back then people were more on their phones

661
00:48:58.400 --> 00:49:01.199
guys nowadays than no one on their
phone as much. But multiple counties,

662
00:49:01.519 --> 00:49:05.880
counties and flouting things up a little
bit, right if if you if you

663
00:49:05.920 --> 00:49:09.599
buy that's one killer still in this
case, I like that a lot.

664
00:49:12.320 --> 00:49:15.079
Obviously I know some more than than
you guys do at this current time.

665
00:49:15.320 --> 00:49:22.119
But it makes uh Is there any
way that there's no confirmation whatsoever that a

666
00:49:22.360 --> 00:49:27.159
he was there that night or b
that he did even go to these parties?

667
00:49:27.239 --> 00:49:30.079
Right, so we we have that. All we have is that one

668
00:49:30.199 --> 00:49:35.679
according to the lawyer, that there
is a sworn affidavit that's punishable by jail

669
00:49:35.760 --> 00:49:40.480
time if proven to be false,
that he was on two occasions seen in

670
00:49:40.559 --> 00:49:45.599
that association partying with hookers and doing
drugs. Can I make an affidavit that

671
00:49:45.599 --> 00:49:47.320
peanut butter and jelly is great?
Is you sure? Is that a thing

672
00:49:47.360 --> 00:49:52.199
that kind of happened? I would
sign that effidy false? Right, yes,

673
00:49:52.280 --> 00:49:57.199
I'm saying, Okay, So well, well that is damning and that's

674
00:49:57.199 --> 00:50:00.360
pretty cool. I mean obviously no
one, even an affid David form.

675
00:50:00.400 --> 00:50:04.320
I doubt that people will still take
the word of a sex worker that seriously.

676
00:50:04.679 --> 00:50:07.239
Probably, but maybe not. I
don't know. I like that,

677
00:50:08.679 --> 00:50:13.360
I think, I mean, I
mean, he sounds pretty legit. Yeah,

678
00:50:13.440 --> 00:50:15.000
not to mention. I mean,
you didn't even talk about his documented

679
00:50:15.079 --> 00:50:20.599
violence towards prostitutes that he was under
investigation for. Well, that's the thing,

680
00:50:20.639 --> 00:50:22.880
is that that kind of thing,
you know, even if he like

681
00:50:22.920 --> 00:50:24.400
he's still remained to be a cop, which obviously he did back in the

682
00:50:24.480 --> 00:50:29.920
nineties or was it eighties nineties?
Right, Well, I mean he resigned

683
00:50:29.960 --> 00:50:31.440
in the no no, no,
that first thing in that first incident.

684
00:50:32.199 --> 00:50:36.000
Oh that was like yeah, like
the early nineties, right, So like

685
00:50:36.320 --> 00:50:43.679
I feel like that kind of thing
should immediately make you inable unable to run

686
00:50:43.760 --> 00:50:46.400
for chief one, you know what
I'm saying that that alone, but that

687
00:50:46.480 --> 00:50:55.079
gives you an idea of how this
Blue Boys Club gets along in Suffo.

688
00:50:55.320 --> 00:50:59.800
I do also like it made a
very cavalier too, because he talked about

689
00:50:59.840 --> 00:51:01.639
him. He's very cavalier about it. He could tell he does it all

690
00:51:01.639 --> 00:51:04.760
the time. He probably flaunts it
a little bit. He doesn't give a

691
00:51:04.760 --> 00:51:08.960
shit you talk about the little lords. He talks about his palace guards out

692
00:51:09.000 --> 00:51:13.840
of cards, how refers to them
in probably public. Nope, without a

693
00:51:13.880 --> 00:51:17.840
care about it. He's like he's
like a Kevin, like a male Karen.

694
00:51:17.920 --> 00:51:23.239
Right. He just looks like a
huge top up all that right,

695
00:51:23.639 --> 00:51:30.559
Yeah, one of those right.
Like I feel like also because of that,

696
00:51:30.599 --> 00:51:36.320
I feel like he would be more
dumb, you know, like a

697
00:51:36.400 --> 00:51:39.760
dumb person. But like also I
can see him making those calls to those

698
00:51:39.760 --> 00:51:45.840
people's families, Barnes's and Parthellamies.
Yeah, the taunting. I can see

699
00:51:45.920 --> 00:51:51.880
him doing that, like a bully
thing. Maybe you know that feels right

700
00:51:52.000 --> 00:51:52.760
with this guy. I haven't seen
a picture of him. Of course,

701
00:51:52.800 --> 00:51:54.719
you guys can do that in your
show notes. I don't have the show

702
00:51:54.719 --> 00:52:00.719
notes because we're making the show.
But I don't know. I mean,

703
00:52:00.719 --> 00:52:02.440
it's guys, such an asshole,
I kind of like import right now.

704
00:52:02.559 --> 00:52:07.480
So right now, you could buy
into a killer cop theory. Yeah,

705
00:52:07.760 --> 00:52:09.360
yeah, especially if he was there
at the party, which I can easily

706
00:52:09.440 --> 00:52:13.639
envision. You know, I wonder
what they have the week that was.

707
00:52:14.519 --> 00:52:16.480
We know, we don't we have
that we could easily. I don't even

708
00:52:16.480 --> 00:52:19.760
think that matters. People can party
whenever, day of the week, but

709
00:52:20.119 --> 00:52:23.000
especially if you're According to the news
reports, Joe Brewer was an unemployed finance

710
00:52:23.599 --> 00:52:27.519
person. So you don't have a
job, you can party seven days a

711
00:52:27.519 --> 00:52:32.039
week. Yeah, you know that's
true. Well, if not a killer

712
00:52:32.119 --> 00:52:39.280
cop, what about a killer doctor? H our Next theory? No,

713
00:52:39.599 --> 00:52:45.039
okay, next theory. We're going
to talk about a really strange guy that

714
00:52:45.480 --> 00:52:50.920
might be a suspect at least in
Shannon Gilbert's death and maybe more. I'd

715
00:52:50.920 --> 00:52:57.199
like to introduce you to the former
head of the Suffolk County Emergency Medical Services,

716
00:52:57.880 --> 00:53:01.679
doctor Peter Hackett. So this isn't
a shlub. This guy was the

717
00:53:01.719 --> 00:53:07.079
head of Suffolk County Emergency Medical Services. Now, as they said, doctor

718
00:53:07.119 --> 00:53:12.159
Hackett, he's a strange one.
He lived in Oak Beach Association for a

719
00:53:12.199 --> 00:53:15.280
long time. He raised a family
there, and he was kind of this

720
00:53:15.639 --> 00:53:21.960
big shot around the association. He
acted as the association's emergency services guy because

721
00:53:21.960 --> 00:53:25.639
he's a doctor, and he acted
as their security guy. So anytime something

722
00:53:25.679 --> 00:53:31.440
went down at this association, doctor
Hackett was involved. Now, not only

723
00:53:31.480 --> 00:53:37.719
does Hackett's backyard but up against the
area where Shannon Gilbert's skeletal remains were found,

724
00:53:37.239 --> 00:53:42.639
Like you could literally see where her
remains were found from this guy's back

725
00:53:42.679 --> 00:53:47.440
porch. Not only that, but
two days after Shannon went missing, So

726
00:53:47.559 --> 00:53:53.800
on May third, twenty ten,
doctor Hackett called Mary Gilbert, Shannon's mother,

727
00:53:54.519 --> 00:54:00.920
and he told her that he Hackett
runs a halfway house for girls that

728
00:54:00.960 --> 00:54:05.159
want to get off the street,
and that Shannon was at his house the

729
00:54:05.280 --> 00:54:09.519
night she went missing. Doctor Hackett
allegedly told Shannon's mom that on the night

730
00:54:09.559 --> 00:54:15.039
Shannon went missing, she was in
distress, so he treated her and he

731
00:54:15.159 --> 00:54:17.960
medicated her, and he said she
left with her driver, Michael Pack,

732
00:54:19.519 --> 00:54:24.800
and that he Hackett was calling because
he was worried about Shannon. Now,

733
00:54:24.840 --> 00:54:30.039
obviously Mary Gilbert, Shannon's mom,
she was just floored by Hackett's call,

734
00:54:30.639 --> 00:54:35.519
so she sends her daughters, Shannon's
sisters, out to Long Island to Oak

735
00:54:35.559 --> 00:54:40.039
Beach, association to doctor Hackett's house, but when the sisters confront him,

736
00:54:40.519 --> 00:54:47.239
Hackett flat out denied ever calling their
mother. He denied ever interacting with Shannon

737
00:54:47.239 --> 00:54:52.880
the night she disappeared, denied medicating
her, and he denied running a halfway

738
00:54:52.920 --> 00:55:00.679
house for wayward girls. However,
phone records provided by Mary Gilbert proved Hackett

739
00:55:00.719 --> 00:55:05.239
did call her on the date she
said he did, on May third,

740
00:55:05.760 --> 00:55:09.639
two days after Shannon went missing.
So we know Hackett made the call,

741
00:55:09.760 --> 00:55:14.519
we got the proof. We know
he's a liar. We just don't know

742
00:55:14.599 --> 00:55:19.480
exactly what he said. There's no
record of the conversation, so all we

743
00:55:19.519 --> 00:55:22.880
could go by is what Mary Gilbert
claims he said. So, in Mary

744
00:55:22.880 --> 00:55:28.079
Gilbert's eyes, if Hackett is lying
about making the call, what else is

745
00:55:28.079 --> 00:55:32.199
he lying about. In fact,
Mary was so convinced that doctor Hackett had

746
00:55:32.239 --> 00:55:37.480
something to do with her daughter's death, Shannon's death, she filed the wrongful

747
00:55:37.480 --> 00:55:43.760
death suit against him, claiming that
Hackett's treatment and medication ultimately led to Shannon's

748
00:55:43.800 --> 00:55:47.599
death. And if you remember when
we talked about the second autopsy on Shannon's

749
00:55:47.639 --> 00:55:52.800
remains, the one conducted by doctor
Michael Badden, he said a small hole

750
00:55:53.360 --> 00:55:58.920
was found in Shannon's hyoid bone.
Remember that, yes, could this small

751
00:55:58.920 --> 00:56:04.039
hole have come from, say a
syringe like Hackett ejected something into Shannon.

752
00:56:05.679 --> 00:56:08.599
Now it's important to note that the
police do not consider Hackett a suspect,

753
00:56:09.559 --> 00:56:15.440
but Hackett was known to treat his
neighbors and provide them with prescriptions, some

754
00:56:15.480 --> 00:56:21.039
prescriptions in the form of injectables,
and at times Shannon certainly sounded drugged in

755
00:56:21.079 --> 00:56:24.039
the nine one one call we played
last episode, and doctor Hackett would have

756
00:56:24.119 --> 00:56:28.920
the means and access to drug Shannon. I'm telling you, this guy is

757
00:56:28.960 --> 00:56:32.960
weird. I watched this one video
or an interviewer from Crime Watch Daily tried

758
00:56:34.000 --> 00:56:37.079
to corner doctor Hackett and ask him
about the allegations that he had something to

759
00:56:37.119 --> 00:56:42.880
do with Shannon's death, and I
swear to God, Oscar Hackett on camera

760
00:56:43.039 --> 00:56:46.920
fakes a heart attack in an attempt
to throw off this interviewer. He screams,

761
00:56:46.960 --> 00:56:51.400
he grabs his chest, falls to
the ground, and when the interviewer

762
00:56:51.400 --> 00:56:54.280
says he's gonna call nine one one, Hackett refuses, saying that if anyone

763
00:56:54.599 --> 00:56:59.519
calls nine one one, he'll just
refuse service because he's a doctor and he

764
00:56:59.599 --> 00:57:05.719
knows what's going on is he appears
Harthorne from community to baking heart attacks.

765
00:57:05.760 --> 00:57:08.199
Huw okay. So I'll leave a
link to this video so you guys can

766
00:57:08.239 --> 00:57:12.400
see it. I'll even put a
timestamp where to start watching this video.

767
00:57:12.679 --> 00:57:15.800
But I mean, after a few
seconds, he gets up like nothing happened.

768
00:57:15.800 --> 00:57:20.039
He gets into his car and he
just drives away. It's the craziest

769
00:57:20.039 --> 00:57:23.239
thing. It's very uncomfortable to watch. And again I'll leave a link to

770
00:57:23.320 --> 00:57:28.840
this video with the timestamp where you
start watching to see this unfold and you

771
00:57:28.960 --> 00:57:32.119
tell us was Hacket? Was Hackett
faking it to get out of this interview

772
00:57:34.039 --> 00:57:37.280
or was it a real heart attack? But it is strange, that is

773
00:57:38.280 --> 00:57:43.280
its very strange. Also, was
thinking about that pinprick, Yes, the

774
00:57:43.360 --> 00:57:49.920
hire bone. I forgot the very
simple fact that Battons was the second person

775
00:57:49.960 --> 00:57:52.840
to autops here. Yeah that was
the set. Yeah, because remember the

776
00:57:52.840 --> 00:57:57.400
first autops he done by the self
kind of medical examiner said that she wasn't

777
00:57:57.480 --> 00:58:02.760
murdered, there was no violence,
death by misadventure, but no drugs in

778
00:58:02.760 --> 00:58:07.280
her system, but cause of death
undetermined. The vishal cause death was undetermined.

779
00:58:07.400 --> 00:58:10.480
So her family is like, we
need another opinion, right, so

780
00:58:10.559 --> 00:58:15.039
they hired this doctor. Mind,
I wonder if somehow doing that first autops

781
00:58:15.079 --> 00:58:19.159
here, somewhere within the window of
time of her body being found and doctor

782
00:58:19.159 --> 00:58:24.599
Baton getting the body to examine again, could she have been injected there or

783
00:58:25.079 --> 00:58:29.719
could that body been disturbed in some
way oh, during the first autopsy,

784
00:58:29.840 --> 00:58:34.840
Yeah, to make it look like
something was done. I mean theoretically,

785
00:58:34.880 --> 00:58:37.360
I guess it's possible. I mean, I don't know what that will do

786
00:58:37.519 --> 00:58:43.039
or lead, especially since the sheriff's
County White is in charge of this case

787
00:58:43.280 --> 00:58:46.239
at the time, the asshole Burke, right, yeah, and his police

788
00:58:47.039 --> 00:58:52.760
as men are and his medical examiner
his case has his case, right,

789
00:58:52.960 --> 00:58:59.280
Yeah, how I mean, it
seems like could have been injected post homies

790
00:58:59.360 --> 00:59:02.159
or something. Thinking out, I
don't know. I'm just saying it seems

791
00:59:02.239 --> 00:59:07.760
very I didn't think about that until
right now, about that if that is

792
00:59:07.800 --> 00:59:10.559
an injection spot, if it is
important that little dot, right, that

793
00:59:10.599 --> 00:59:19.000
puncture could have been made after she
died. Again, I guess theoretically it

794
00:59:19.000 --> 00:59:22.000
could. You know, well,
I also don't know what to accomplish.

795
00:59:22.880 --> 00:59:29.400
It was something that will fuck up
doctor Batton's examination, That'll be the ideal.

796
00:59:29.599 --> 00:59:31.400
Well, he's the one who found
that that high wind was actually cracked

797
00:59:32.119 --> 00:59:35.960
and it had that punctual Well,
the crack and the puncture are two different

798
00:59:36.000 --> 00:59:38.280
things. Yeah, but it shows
violence according to Baden, Yes, yes,

799
00:59:38.360 --> 00:59:43.159
which negates what Sofa County Medical Examiner
said that there was no violence.

800
00:59:43.400 --> 00:59:46.159
Yeah. I had a theory about
that too, that that bone, because

801
00:59:46.159 --> 00:59:50.320
you say it was cracked, and
then it's something that something that looks like

802
00:59:50.360 --> 00:59:52.239
it was a needle doesn't have to
be a needle to be something else.

803
00:59:52.599 --> 00:59:57.920
I figured, like, what if
she while being strangled choked, which we

804
00:59:58.000 --> 01:00:02.079
know the serra kill loves to do. Yes, maybe this time like he

805
01:00:02.159 --> 01:00:07.679
had a ring facing the wrong way
or something else was and then punctured her.

806
01:00:07.800 --> 01:00:10.800
You know, something else could have
pushed that far in some sort of

807
01:00:10.840 --> 01:00:13.960
point. I don't know, if
he was holding keys, you know,

808
01:00:14.000 --> 01:00:17.039
think of what could do it,
you know, and like maybe doing this

809
01:00:17.119 --> 01:00:22.679
strangulation, this thing that looks like
a needle injection could be made while the

810
01:00:22.719 --> 01:00:27.360
strangulation was happening. I was thinking
about that as well. Yeah, it's

811
01:00:27.360 --> 01:00:31.400
possible, I guess anyway. Yeah, it's it's crazy, it's crazy.

812
01:00:31.480 --> 01:00:37.800
Yeah, Now continue on with Hackett. Shortly after Shannon's body was discovered,

813
01:00:38.239 --> 01:00:43.559
Hackett sold his house and moved to
Fort Myers, Florida. Now, and

814
01:00:43.800 --> 01:00:46.679
I don't think that's too suspicious,
because you know, he's got the media

815
01:00:46.719 --> 01:00:50.280
on him. You know, Shannon's
family is visiting him. His name's being

816
01:00:50.360 --> 01:00:52.119
dragged through the mud. So he
moves, you know, his family to

817
01:00:52.159 --> 01:00:57.199
Fort Myers. But that just adds
to this, to his strangeness to a

818
01:00:57.199 --> 01:01:01.960
lot of people. Now, after
strangely, after all this circumstantial evidence against

819
01:01:01.960 --> 01:01:06.960
Hackett, police have not interviewed him
as a suspect. They haven't gotten a

820
01:01:06.960 --> 01:01:10.079
written statement from him. And you
refuse a polygraph test, yet the police

821
01:01:10.119 --> 01:01:15.079
won't really take a look at him. I don't know, See, what

822
01:01:15.119 --> 01:01:17.440
do you think about that he's refusing
a polygraph has not enough to try to

823
01:01:17.440 --> 01:01:22.840
investigate further. And unless they did
investigate further and found nothing, yeah,

824
01:01:22.840 --> 01:01:27.559
I guess they got nothing on him. Apparently they say he's just one of

825
01:01:27.559 --> 01:01:30.719
those weird guys that likes to inject
themselves into everything, be in the center

826
01:01:30.760 --> 01:01:36.800
of everything. Now, it's also
said that our strange doctor Hackett has contacts

827
01:01:36.800 --> 01:01:40.280
with all the big shots that party
at Joe Brewer's house, the politicians,

828
01:01:40.320 --> 01:01:45.960
the police, the rich guys,
the rich businessmen, which is why he

829
01:01:45.039 --> 01:01:50.800
was never investigated. He's insulated.
Either that or Hackett was being used like

830
01:01:50.840 --> 01:01:53.960
a patsy to kind of draw attention
away from the real killer. Again,

831
01:01:54.000 --> 01:01:58.000
it's all theory. Well, if
he was made to be a patsy,

832
01:01:58.039 --> 01:02:00.800
obviously it didn't work at all because
the police didn't even fucking look at him.

833
01:02:00.000 --> 01:02:04.239
Right now, it failed, which
is the sheriff guy that right now

834
01:02:04.280 --> 01:02:07.920
is number one, So that'spy.
It's like weird. Yeah, yeah,

835
01:02:07.480 --> 01:02:12.440
it's theory, but it's interesting.
You know, was doctor Hackett at Brewer's

836
01:02:12.480 --> 01:02:15.079
house that night? Did he really
drug Shannon? And that's why she sounded

837
01:02:15.119 --> 01:02:19.079
so whacked out on the nine to
one one call. If he did,

838
01:02:19.159 --> 01:02:22.960
why I think it's professional is what
leads. Yeah, yeah, if he

839
01:02:22.960 --> 01:02:24.519
did drug her, was she meant
to die or were the drugs meant to

840
01:02:24.559 --> 01:02:28.960
just kind of make her more compliant
so she went and struggle when the men

841
01:02:29.119 --> 01:02:31.440
had their way with her. Or
maybe Hackett wasn't at the party, but

842
01:02:31.519 --> 01:02:37.119
instead Shannon made the mistake of banging
on hackett store, just like she did

843
01:02:37.119 --> 01:02:40.639
with Gus Colletti and Barbara Brennan after
she ran from Brewer's house, but instead

844
01:02:40.639 --> 01:02:45.920
of finding someone sympathetic and willing to
help, she found Hackett in a syringe.

845
01:02:46.079 --> 01:02:50.000
And again, I'm not trying to
feed the conspiracy fire here, but

846
01:02:50.480 --> 01:02:53.440
Hackett is someone a lot of people
point to is being involved in these murders,

847
01:02:54.039 --> 01:02:59.639
if not being the Long Island serial
killer himself. So yeah, to

848
01:02:59.639 --> 01:03:02.159
get an out of this neighborhood,
Like, could she have run to him

849
01:03:02.199 --> 01:03:07.039
within that same block? I mean, is it around there. It's it's

850
01:03:07.079 --> 01:03:09.679
not a huge place, so I'm
guessing she probably could have ran there.

851
01:03:10.719 --> 01:03:14.639
I'm sure that could be seen somebody. I don't have a layout in my

852
01:03:14.639 --> 01:03:17.239
head or a blueprint or anything,
but you know, I'm just curious if

853
01:03:17.280 --> 01:03:20.800
she could have been, if he
could have been one of the people she

854
01:03:20.880 --> 01:03:25.679
knocked, right, it could have
been. Yeah. Yeah, he's weird.

855
01:03:25.840 --> 01:03:30.599
He's you know, he sounds like
he sounds like the therapist of Laura

856
01:03:30.639 --> 01:03:36.199
Palmer in Twin Peaks. Oh,
I remember the fucking weirdo. He's like

857
01:03:36.239 --> 01:03:38.880
the weirdo doctor guy. Yeah,
that's kind of that's what this guy remind

858
01:03:38.920 --> 01:03:43.360
how they described this guy. That's
that's a good analogy. He's like he's

859
01:03:43.360 --> 01:03:45.039
like one of the very first suspects
in that show because he has the other

860
01:03:45.119 --> 01:03:49.480
locket, the other half of the
locket everyone's looking for because like whoever has

861
01:03:49.519 --> 01:03:52.440
the other half is the killer and
he has it. It's you know,

862
01:03:52.679 --> 01:03:55.199
like a just like a weirdo that's
just to Hawaiian music all day, that's

863
01:03:55.360 --> 01:03:58.440
what. And if you see go
to the show notes and we got a

864
01:03:58.440 --> 01:04:01.159
picture of Hacket. Yeah, he
he looks strange. He's a strange looking

865
01:04:01.199 --> 01:04:04.599
cat. So it all kind of
can't ask you. Yeah, Oh,

866
01:04:04.639 --> 01:04:08.840
it was a great show. I
love it. So we got possibly a

867
01:04:08.920 --> 01:04:15.199
killer cop, a crazy killer doctor. Possibly here's another tantalizing thread. We

868
01:04:15.239 --> 01:04:18.440
can pull that and try to unravel
who the killer might be. Remember,

869
01:04:18.599 --> 01:04:23.440
many of the victim's bodies were found
wrapped in burlap. This is one of

870
01:04:23.440 --> 01:04:28.639
the links that holds this victim chain
together. This burlap material. Apparently,

871
01:04:28.719 --> 01:04:30.639
the bar lap, the burr lap
that was found with many of the victims

872
01:04:31.159 --> 01:04:34.480
isn't something you can just walk into
a home depot and buy. It had

873
01:04:34.480 --> 01:04:39.880
to come from a supplier, and
if you could believe it, there's just

874
01:04:40.320 --> 01:04:45.559
one main supplier of this burr lap
on Long Island. Really, it's a

875
01:04:45.599 --> 01:04:53.360
wholesale nursery operation called Beset Nurseries,
owned by a wealthy businessman named Jim Bessett

876
01:04:53.559 --> 01:04:59.400
the Third James Bissett the Third now
Bassett, along with his business partner Joe

877
01:04:59.440 --> 01:05:06.239
Petresse, they founded the Long Island
Aquarium in Riverhead, Long Island. This

878
01:05:06.440 --> 01:05:13.440
massive aquarium and entertainment complex complete with
a twenty eight thousand square foot ballroom and

879
01:05:13.480 --> 01:05:18.599
a one hundred room ocean front high
at hotel. So Bissett is very successful,

880
01:05:19.159 --> 01:05:24.880
very wealthy, and he's a well
respected leader in his community. People

881
01:05:24.960 --> 01:05:29.639
described him as a wonderful person,
a captain of industry, a visionary,

882
01:05:30.039 --> 01:05:34.400
and someone that everyone loved. He
was even described as Walt Disney esque.

883
01:05:35.440 --> 01:05:43.079
So here's where it gets crazy.
Just one day after Shannon Gilbert's remains were

884
01:05:43.079 --> 01:05:47.920
found, on December fourteenth, twenty
eleven, James Bissett the Third was found

885
01:05:47.960 --> 01:05:54.320
dead in his car in Veterans Park
from apparent suicide, not far from his

886
01:05:54.440 --> 01:05:59.960
sprawling estate in Mattatuck, Long Island. No cause of death was ever released,

887
01:06:00.079 --> 01:06:04.519
but police said his death did not
appear to be suspicious. So since

888
01:06:04.599 --> 01:06:10.119
Besett owned Beset, nurseries, and
he had easy access to this burlap material

889
01:06:10.119 --> 01:06:14.800
that was found with the victims.
And since he literally committed suicide immediately after

890
01:06:15.199 --> 01:06:19.360
Shannon was found, it's no surprise
people pointed their fingers at Bissett being the

891
01:06:19.360 --> 01:06:24.360
Long Island serial killer. I mean, everything's a little too convenient, isn't

892
01:06:24.400 --> 01:06:29.280
it now? James B. Bessett
was never officially named a suspect in the

893
01:06:29.360 --> 01:06:32.679
murders, and he was never officially
tied to Joe Brewer's sex parties if they

894
01:06:32.719 --> 01:06:38.079
existed. But could he have been
one of the powerful businessmen that supposedly parted

895
01:06:38.119 --> 01:06:42.480
there? Could he have been involved
with Shannon? Why would he kill himself

896
01:06:42.559 --> 01:06:47.400
immediately after Shannon's remains were found.
It's just too juicy to ignore. But

897
01:06:47.480 --> 01:06:51.239
again bears repeating. Just like Michael
Pack, Joe Brewer, James Burke,

898
01:06:51.280 --> 01:06:58.159
and Doctor Hackett, James Bessett was
never named a suspect in the murders now,

899
01:06:58.199 --> 01:07:00.480
believe it or not, Bessett is
not the only executive from the Long

900
01:07:00.480 --> 01:07:06.239
Island Aquarium that is dyed by apparent
suicide. Robert Laniari, the food services

901
01:07:06.320 --> 01:07:11.800
director for the Long Island Aquarium,
was found dead of an apparent suicide on

902
01:07:11.880 --> 01:07:17.920
June thirteenth, twenty thirteen, just
eighteen months after Jane Bessett's suicide. Not

903
01:07:18.000 --> 01:07:21.480
a lot of information is available out
there at all on Lanari, and an

904
01:07:21.519 --> 01:07:27.280
official cause of death wasn't released.
But man, either the aquarium business is

905
01:07:27.320 --> 01:07:30.440
a lot more dangerous than anyone could
have imagined, or stressful, Yeah,

906
01:07:30.599 --> 01:07:36.079
or something really fishy is going on
with this story. I couldn't help the

907
01:07:36.079 --> 01:07:42.159
pun. What do you think?
So obviously I don't. I don't think

908
01:07:42.480 --> 01:07:46.000
he is the killer. I mean
I think I say no. I think

909
01:07:46.039 --> 01:07:51.400
I say hard no on this guy, mainly because dramatically, cinematically even and

910
01:07:51.400 --> 01:07:57.199
there's no centema here. It feels
like a letdown if this guy tend if

911
01:07:57.199 --> 01:08:00.039
this guy were to be the guy. Really it's a letdown because he's dead

912
01:08:00.039 --> 01:08:04.039
already. Oh I because he killed
himself. Nobody knows anything about him.

913
01:08:04.039 --> 01:08:09.119
I think the real question here is
like to figure out how that it's a

914
01:08:09.159 --> 01:08:13.440
coincidence, maybe that he committed suicide
at this time. We need to know

915
01:08:13.480 --> 01:08:16.359
contextually what was going on in his
life. Yeah, to really bring some

916
01:08:16.399 --> 01:08:20.119
more light into what happened that day
or what led to that day beyond that

917
01:08:20.159 --> 01:08:24.840
point. The most obvious question I
had while you were telling me that fact

918
01:08:25.359 --> 01:08:30.640
is that the day after Shannon's body
was discovered, was it already in the

919
01:08:30.640 --> 01:08:33.880
news that fast was did everyone know
or is it just police that knew.

920
01:08:36.720 --> 01:08:40.319
I'm pretty sure it was in the
news by that point. Okay, then

921
01:08:40.319 --> 01:08:42.560
if it was, then yes,
he could have heard of Okay, I

922
01:08:42.560 --> 01:08:44.960
was curious, curity. I mean, that's pretty fast. I know,

923
01:08:44.960 --> 01:08:46.279
we see again, I see that
a lot of the movies. I don't

924
01:08:46.279 --> 01:08:49.560
know how accurate those movies are.
But well, let's think about this here

925
01:08:50.319 --> 01:08:56.000
quickly. This is a small this
is oh that's too a small a small

926
01:08:56.079 --> 01:09:00.439
era of people. Yeah, same
as part of the club unquote. But

927
01:09:00.520 --> 01:09:06.960
there's a Facebook of WhatsApp conversation going
on. But again, you can see

928
01:09:08.039 --> 01:09:14.079
where Shannon's remains were found from Hackett's
porch, right, So the association would

929
01:09:14.079 --> 01:09:17.439
have known immediately when that body was
found, word would have got out like

930
01:09:17.479 --> 01:09:23.479
that. So whether even if it
wasn't in the media immediately, word would

931
01:09:23.479 --> 01:09:27.680
have gotten out instantly because everyone saw
it, you know, amazing. I

932
01:09:27.720 --> 01:09:30.479
mean, I'm sure a sleuth I
can see that being a juicy thing.

933
01:09:30.600 --> 01:09:33.960
Like you freaked out right killed himself. Another one is that the fact that

934
01:09:34.039 --> 01:09:40.439
his death was not suspect but undetermined
you said, or something what you say?

935
01:09:40.720 --> 01:09:43.039
No cause of death was released,
so they didn't say if he slid

936
01:09:43.119 --> 01:09:45.640
his wrists, if he shot himself. Now could they could that that kind

937
01:09:45.640 --> 01:09:49.520
of thing? The fact that they
say that to to the public, no

938
01:09:49.640 --> 01:09:53.720
cause of death, we don't like
then not releasing one. Could that be

939
01:09:54.199 --> 01:10:00.479
to not? You know? To
is that? Is that for for the

940
01:10:00.479 --> 01:10:05.079
benefit or the sympathy of his family, to release I would hope. So

941
01:10:05.359 --> 01:10:09.239
is that why I'm saying. I
would hope it is is that way for

942
01:10:09.279 --> 01:10:12.159
sure? But I would hope so. Okay, what especially if this this

943
01:10:12.199 --> 01:10:16.199
because they remember I said he was
so loved Captain Disney Disney, they wouldn't

944
01:10:16.199 --> 01:10:21.439
want to maybe antisemitic. Kelly really
hated Juice right, left, right and

945
01:10:21.560 --> 01:10:27.079
left. Uh. I would hope
it would be for his family. But

946
01:10:27.800 --> 01:10:30.840
it could have been pills. They
never said. But what they did release

947
01:10:30.920 --> 01:10:32.439
is that it wasn't suspicious. He
wasn't murdered. In other words, you

948
01:10:32.439 --> 01:10:38.279
know, it's funny because he does
feel third fittle though to to the doctor

949
01:10:38.520 --> 01:10:42.439
and to Burke. As far as
people are closest to this guy. To

950
01:10:42.600 --> 01:10:45.479
this case, I mean, and
and by this case, I really mean

951
01:10:45.520 --> 01:10:49.119
to Shannon Gilbert, because we mentioned
on the last episode she's the unsung hero,

952
01:10:49.239 --> 01:10:53.960
because we know the most of her. She's the only victim we heard

953
01:10:53.960 --> 01:10:58.479
our voice, the only victim that
led to all the other ones, the

954
01:10:58.479 --> 01:11:03.199
most latest victim because of that many
right, so like she's pretty important,

955
01:11:03.720 --> 01:11:09.279
right almost oftentimes the last victim that
catches the killer because the last one you

956
01:11:09.319 --> 01:11:14.760
know. So uh So, it
feels like because Burke was closer, not

957
01:11:14.840 --> 01:11:18.159
closer for real, I just mean
that closer in the circles, you know,

958
01:11:18.359 --> 01:11:21.119
dealing with sex workers, not the
right beating the shit out of the

959
01:11:21.319 --> 01:11:25.359
sex workers, being at parties,
being in the rich parties in the area.

960
01:11:25.600 --> 01:11:29.199
Possibly most likely, like it's circumstantial
in the sense that we don't know

961
01:11:29.239 --> 01:11:31.399
for sure because we can't fact check
something like this. But also the fact

962
01:11:31.399 --> 01:11:35.159
that they were in charge of the
investigation makes me feel like, is that

963
01:11:35.199 --> 01:11:41.600
why they didn't pursue the good doctor
from denying the light detective test? But

964
01:11:41.680 --> 01:11:46.319
that because that I also have led
to maybe uh be set realizing that,

965
01:11:46.520 --> 01:11:49.920
oh shit, I know the customer
that buys my birl aft sacks and he

966
01:11:49.960 --> 01:11:56.840
gets killed. Yeah, he gets
a whole bottle's worth of as usual medication

967
01:11:57.000 --> 01:11:59.880
to kill him off, you know, or something like that. We don't

968
01:12:00.119 --> 01:12:03.840
know, And it makes you really
open up the can of worms of possibilities

969
01:12:04.159 --> 01:12:08.359
that how they how much more evil
this could thing, this thing could be,

970
01:12:08.560 --> 01:12:11.439
which obviously the most evil, the
more evil it sounds, the less

971
01:12:11.520 --> 01:12:14.720
likely it is because reality is weird
that way. We're like, we're more

972
01:12:14.720 --> 01:12:17.560
brutal in reality, but not really
quite that evil. So it makes you

973
01:12:17.800 --> 01:12:21.600
ask these questions and it sounds more
ridiculous as I ask them. But all

974
01:12:21.640 --> 01:12:25.600
these three are connected in a way, right, they're really connected. Well,

975
01:12:25.640 --> 01:12:30.640
and they found them at that veterans
park in Madatuck. Madatuck is in

976
01:12:30.680 --> 01:12:33.359
Suffolk County, OK. So who
would be looking at that murder that crime

977
01:12:33.399 --> 01:12:38.720
scene? Well, yeah, the
bad police and not saying that all of

978
01:12:38.720 --> 01:12:43.119
the Suffoc County police are bad,
right, but definitely not just one.

979
01:12:43.359 --> 01:12:46.399
The track record, he is not
just one someone seeing some of these actions,

980
01:12:46.399 --> 01:12:48.960
even if they're innocent, let's say, and they're not doing anything about

981
01:12:48.960 --> 01:12:54.079
it. That's also part of it. Yeah, just you get arrested for

982
01:12:54.199 --> 01:12:59.000
not doing for negligence, right,
right, But if these you know,

983
01:12:59.079 --> 01:13:02.920
someone who's in the know, we'll
say, put a gun in this guy's

984
01:13:02.920 --> 01:13:08.239
hand and made it staged suicide.
Right. We don't even know what ye

985
01:13:08.800 --> 01:13:11.279
we don't know if it was medication
or a gunshot. We don't know shit.

986
01:13:11.720 --> 01:13:13.880
So if you want to look at
it, you know, in those

987
01:13:14.760 --> 01:13:17.359
conspiracy tinted glasses, may man,
anything could have happened to that man.

988
01:13:17.359 --> 01:13:20.359
Well that's the problem with not releasing
what their cause of that. You know,

989
01:13:20.399 --> 01:13:24.479
it's like you have to these rooms
just run rampant. It really does,

990
01:13:24.520 --> 01:13:28.239
I mean obviously, and they don't
care. Most police officials of any

991
01:13:28.279 --> 01:13:31.600
county, of any state FBI included, they don't care what people think as

992
01:13:31.600 --> 01:13:36.119
long as they know and they arrest
the right person exactly, and then that's

993
01:13:36.199 --> 01:13:40.399
all they should really care about.
Of course, I'm on their side in

994
01:13:40.439 --> 01:13:44.680
that sense, yes, But in
this case because of the history of this

995
01:13:44.800 --> 01:13:47.239
bad police, especially the bad chief
chief to be at this time and you

996
01:13:47.520 --> 01:13:51.680
he's not the chief yet, but
like doesn't sound good, it doesn't look

997
01:13:51.680 --> 01:13:55.520
good. He was chief in twenty
and twelve, so Shanning Gibber was one

998
01:13:55.560 --> 01:13:58.920
twenty and eleven. Most likely he
wasn't chief yet, right, I believe

999
01:13:59.000 --> 01:14:02.760
so that's what he said. I'm
gonna go with that. I gotta go

1000
01:14:02.800 --> 01:14:10.039
back to my note SAT. Yeah, it's it's crazy. I don't know,

1001
01:14:10.319 --> 01:14:14.399
but we really should leave the weirdos
at the Oak Beach Association and move

1002
01:14:14.439 --> 01:14:20.800
on. Yeah, let's shift our
focus to something else that's really tantalizing.

1003
01:14:21.439 --> 01:14:30.239
Is the multiple serial killer theory.
Now that the theory is that the Long

1004
01:14:30.239 --> 01:14:34.840
Island serial killer, either knowingly or
unknowingly, wasn't acting alone, that there

1005
01:14:34.840 --> 01:14:40.560
were multiple serial killers involved. So
the last bodies left by the Long Island

1006
01:14:40.560 --> 01:14:45.279
serial killer that we know of were
found in April of twenty eleven. That

1007
01:14:45.319 --> 01:14:50.479
would be Valerie mack Jane Doe number
three or Peaches we call her Peach's toddler

1008
01:14:50.600 --> 01:14:58.479
daughter Karen Forgot on Fire Island and
Asian male. The Asian that was just

1009
01:14:59.039 --> 01:15:02.840
as a woman. Shannon Gilbert was
found in December of twenty eleven, a

1010
01:15:02.840 --> 01:15:08.239
bit later than the others, but
we're not sure Shannon is even connected because

1011
01:15:08.239 --> 01:15:12.399
her pattern is so different. We're
not even sure she was murdered so for

1012
01:15:12.520 --> 01:15:15.439
at least a decade. As far
as we know, the Long Island serial

1013
01:15:15.520 --> 01:15:21.399
killer hasn't killed anyone, and people
speculate as to why he simply stopped killing.

1014
01:15:21.960 --> 01:15:26.600
He's in prison, he moved from
the area, switched methods, and

1015
01:15:26.880 --> 01:15:32.239
he's still active in another state.
He's dead or he was killed. So

1016
01:15:32.319 --> 01:15:38.319
this is a really interesting theory.
There's this predominant theory that coincidentally the Long

1017
01:15:38.359 --> 01:15:44.000
Island serial killer wasn't the only serial
murderer using Gilgo Beach in Ocean Parkway as

1018
01:15:44.000 --> 01:15:47.560
their dumping ground, that in fact, there were multiple serial killers at work

1019
01:15:47.920 --> 01:15:54.760
snuffing out prostitutes and burying them up
and down Ocean Parkway. This would explain

1020
01:15:54.840 --> 01:16:00.079
why earlier victims like Jessica Taylor,
Valerie Mack, Karen Ergatta in Paches were

1021
01:16:00.079 --> 01:16:06.000
all dismembered and they remain scattered,
while the Gilgo four women were left intact.

1022
01:16:08.199 --> 01:16:12.680
This could mean two things. One
that in the beginning, the Long

1023
01:16:12.720 --> 01:16:16.760
Island serial Killer was so worried about
getting caught he dismembered and scattered his victims

1024
01:16:17.159 --> 01:16:20.720
to make them harder to identify,
therefore harder for him to get caught.

1025
01:16:21.479 --> 01:16:26.760
And after some time of not getting
caught, he got more ballsy and he

1026
01:16:26.880 --> 01:16:31.520
just left the bodies intact, his
fear of being apprehended gone. That's one

1027
01:16:31.560 --> 01:16:38.760
possibility. His mentality changed, so
did his mo The other possibility, and

1028
01:16:38.840 --> 01:16:43.439
many people prescribed to this theory,
is that there are at least two different

1029
01:16:43.439 --> 01:16:48.279
serial killers responsible for all these murders. The women found dismembered in the pine

1030
01:16:48.319 --> 01:16:53.880
barrens of Manerville, New York and
at gilgo In Ocean Parkway could have been

1031
01:16:53.960 --> 01:16:59.960
killed by someone else. Someone the
media is dubbed the Manorville Butcher a Torso

1032
01:17:00.199 --> 01:17:03.800
killer, and the gilgo for women
were killed by the Long Island serial killer,

1033
01:17:04.039 --> 01:17:11.279
who's more of a trophy killer.
Now. These Torso killers are extreme

1034
01:17:11.439 --> 01:17:15.600
sadists that dismember their victims a lot
of times while they're still alive, and

1035
01:17:15.680 --> 01:17:18.680
they like to dump their bodies where
they could be easily found, as if

1036
01:17:18.760 --> 01:17:23.199
say into the world, look what
I did, Look how great I am?

1037
01:17:23.600 --> 01:17:28.319
And Torso killers are known to scatter
victim body parts across multiple areas,

1038
01:17:28.359 --> 01:17:33.640
and they're very angry, very territorial
people. So another tantalizing theory is that

1039
01:17:33.720 --> 01:17:40.880
the Manerville butcher the Torso killer was
taunting or even hunting the Long Island serial

1040
01:17:40.960 --> 01:17:45.760
killer. This theory basically says that
the Manerville Butcher knowingly left dismembered body parts

1041
01:17:45.760 --> 01:17:51.199
from prostitutes he killed in the Long
Island serial Killer's trophy garden, kind of

1042
01:17:51.520 --> 01:17:56.840
desecrating what the Long Island serial killer
was trying to do around Ocean Parkway,

1043
01:17:56.920 --> 01:18:00.600
his stomping grounds, his trophy garden. And really, what better way to

1044
01:18:00.600 --> 01:18:05.600
desecrate the Long Island serial killer's perfect
trophy garden than the toss in dismembered body

1045
01:18:05.600 --> 01:18:11.640
parts of women the Long Island serial
Killer didn't kill, and throw in a

1046
01:18:11.640 --> 01:18:15.159
male, the unidentified Asian man,
the outlier, and a toddler into the

1047
01:18:15.199 --> 01:18:20.479
mix. It could be interpreted as
the territorial manivil Butcher, the Torso killer

1048
01:18:20.800 --> 01:18:25.039
signaling to the Long Island serial killer
and saying, hey, I'm here too,

1049
01:18:25.079 --> 01:18:27.199
and there's not a fucking thing you
could do about it, Like they're

1050
01:18:27.239 --> 01:18:32.720
having a dialogue and shit the valley
just using body parts, right, God,

1051
01:18:33.319 --> 01:18:36.760
who knows. Maybe the Long Island
serial Killer was getting too much attention

1052
01:18:36.800 --> 01:18:41.319
and the Manruviel Butcher didn't like it. Maybe the butcher didn't like someone else

1053
01:18:41.399 --> 01:18:45.840
killing his prey. Remember, Torso
killers are known to be territorial, so

1054
01:18:45.920 --> 01:18:50.640
who knows, Some even speculate that
maybe the Manorville Butcher killed the Long Island

1055
01:18:50.680 --> 01:18:55.840
serial killer to do away with the
competition, and that's why we haven't seen

1056
01:18:55.880 --> 01:19:00.720
the Long Island serial Killers handywork in
over a decade. And I know it's

1057
01:19:00.760 --> 01:19:03.000
funny but just a theory, and
a lot of people crap on this idea

1058
01:19:03.039 --> 01:19:08.079
of the competing killers, but I
thought it's incredibly interesting. Nonetheless at the

1059
01:19:08.119 --> 01:19:12.640
cool movie idea. Yeah, and
apparently there's historical reference to this exact type

1060
01:19:12.680 --> 01:19:17.199
of behavior. Now, I'm not
a ripperlogist, but from what I understand,

1061
01:19:17.399 --> 01:19:23.119
back between eighteen eighty eight and eighteen
ninety one, when Jack the Ripper

1062
01:19:23.159 --> 01:19:27.640
was slicing and dicing his way through
Whitechapel in East London, England, there

1063
01:19:27.720 --> 01:19:31.119
was another killer, a Torso killer, brutally killing women at the same time.

1064
01:19:32.079 --> 01:19:35.600
This is fact, and this guy
was even more brutal than Jack the

1065
01:19:35.640 --> 01:19:43.359
Ripper, leaving women all over Jack's
territory. And one theory states that Jack

1066
01:19:43.399 --> 01:19:47.960
the Ripper suddenly stopped killing because this
unknown Torso killer murdered them. So this

1067
01:19:48.000 --> 01:19:54.680
isn't unheard of, this idea of
warring serial killers. Anyway, there are

1068
01:19:54.720 --> 01:20:00.880
no less than four serial murders,
murderers besides the Long Island serial killer that

1069
01:20:00.920 --> 01:20:04.319
could be responsible for some of the
bodies found in Las Vegas, Atlantic City,

1070
01:20:04.560 --> 01:20:09.000
and up and down Ocean Parkway on
Long Island. Now, I'm not

1071
01:20:09.000 --> 01:20:11.359
going to get into the weeds with
all these guys. We just don't have

1072
01:20:11.399 --> 01:20:15.199
the time, but I do want
to touch on them in First, we

1073
01:20:15.319 --> 01:20:21.319
have Joel the Ripper Rifkin, one
of the most prolific serial killers in American

1074
01:20:21.439 --> 01:20:25.840
history, a real piece of shit
that we really should cover one day.

1075
01:20:26.800 --> 01:20:30.199
Now. Rifkin owned a landscaping business
and he lived in his mother's basement in

1076
01:20:30.319 --> 01:20:34.039
East Meadow, Long Island. And
at the same time, he was a

1077
01:20:34.079 --> 01:20:41.119
notorious Torso killer, believed to have
killed up to seventeen prostitutes between nineteen eighty

1078
01:20:41.199 --> 01:20:44.960
nine and nineteen ninety three. Just
to give you an idea of what a

1079
01:20:45.000 --> 01:20:48.479
sick fuck this guy was, he
left the head of one of his victims

1080
01:20:48.760 --> 01:20:54.000
at the seventh hole of a golf
course in Hopewell, New Jersey. Then

1081
01:20:54.039 --> 01:20:57.399
he proceeded to toss the other bits
and pieces of her all around the Tri

1082
01:20:57.479 --> 01:21:01.960
state area. If you remember from
the last episode, the Dismembered torso of

1083
01:21:01.960 --> 01:21:05.800
a woman know miss Peaches, was
found in Lakeview, Long Island, and

1084
01:21:05.920 --> 01:21:11.840
later in twenty eleven, her dismembered
bones were found inside a plastic bag near

1085
01:21:11.920 --> 01:21:16.279
Jones Beach State Park, further down
Ocean Parkway from Gilgo Beach. The remains

1086
01:21:16.279 --> 01:21:20.920
of Peach's younger daughter were also found
off Ocean Parkway in twenty eleven. So

1087
01:21:20.960 --> 01:21:27.079
could Rifkin be responsible for these murders? Maybe he started two years earlier then

1088
01:21:27.119 --> 01:21:32.000
we're really aware of It's definitely possible
now. Police actually questioned Rifkin from behind

1089
01:21:32.039 --> 01:21:36.920
bars about his thoughts on the Long
Island serial killer, and Rifkin replied it

1090
01:21:36.960 --> 01:21:42.560
would probably be someone like a landscaper, a contractor, or a fisherman.

1091
01:21:43.720 --> 01:21:47.920
And we'll see later in this episode
if Rifkin was right. Now, here's

1092
01:21:48.000 --> 01:21:53.359
just another little tidbit of information,
something I didn't know. It doesn't have

1093
01:21:53.359 --> 01:21:57.279
really anything to do what we're talking
about. But Rifkin's last known victim was

1094
01:21:57.319 --> 01:22:01.359
a sex worker named Tiffany Bresciani,
who, at the time she was killed,

1095
01:22:01.840 --> 01:22:05.920
was in a relationship with a guy
named Dave Rubinstein, also known as

1096
01:22:06.000 --> 01:22:11.319
Dave Insurgent, the singer and co
founder of the punk band Reagan Youth,

1097
01:22:11.880 --> 01:22:15.000
who I still listen to today.
I thought that was crazy. Don't know

1098
01:22:15.079 --> 01:22:17.960
them? Yeah, really good?
Check him out. So Joel Rifkin could

1099
01:22:17.960 --> 01:22:23.000
have possibly been responsible for some of
those earlier murders. He was a torso

1100
01:22:23.359 --> 01:22:28.880
he was in the area he was
cutting up women as possible. Here's another

1101
01:22:28.880 --> 01:22:31.960
Long Island serial killer I hadn't heard
of before. His name is Robert Schulman,

1102
01:22:32.239 --> 01:22:36.880
a postal worker from Hicksville on Long
Island. Schoulman was convicted of murdering

1103
01:22:36.920 --> 01:22:42.800
and dismembering five women, including sex
workers, between nineteen ninety one and nineteen

1104
01:22:42.880 --> 01:22:46.760
ninety six, and dumping parts of
their bodies in trash bins all around Long

1105
01:22:46.800 --> 01:22:51.520
Island. He was known for smoking
a ton of crack with prostitutes that he

1106
01:22:51.560 --> 01:22:55.680
brought back to his house, after
which he would beat them to death with

1107
01:22:55.800 --> 01:22:59.560
barbells, bats, and hammers.
Then he would chop them up and scatter

1108
01:22:59.600 --> 01:23:03.239
the pieces. Now, coincidentally,
Shulman and Rifkin were operating in Long Island

1109
01:23:03.279 --> 01:23:09.359
at the same time. Therefore,
Shulman could also be responsible for murdering Peaches

1110
01:23:09.399 --> 01:23:16.680
and her daughter. Timeframe fits.
Then we have John Bittrolf yet another convicted

1111
01:23:16.760 --> 01:23:21.800
murderer that may be responsible for one
or more of the unsolved deaths connected to

1112
01:23:21.800 --> 01:23:28.119
Gilgo Beach. Now John Bittrolf is
a fifty seven year old carpenter, husband

1113
01:23:28.439 --> 01:23:33.359
and father from Manorville, Long Island. Remember Jessica Taylor's torso was found in

1114
01:23:33.439 --> 01:23:38.319
Manerville in two thousand and three,
and her head and forearm were found at

1115
01:23:38.359 --> 01:23:42.520
Gilgo Beach in two thousand and one, and Valerie Max's remains were also found

1116
01:23:42.520 --> 01:23:46.000
dismembered in Manerville in two thousand and
her skull and foot were found in a

1117
01:23:46.000 --> 01:23:54.279
plastic bag off Ocean Parkway near Gilgo
Beach in twenty eleven. Now Bitchrolf has

1118
01:23:54.319 --> 01:23:59.119
been in prison since twenty seventeen,
when he was convicted of killing by strangulation

1119
01:24:00.079 --> 01:24:04.439
two prostitutes named Rita Tangretty and Colleen
mcnamie back in nineteen ninety three and nineteen

1120
01:24:04.520 --> 01:24:09.920
ninety four, and then dumping their
bodies in the same area on Long Island's

1121
01:24:09.920 --> 01:24:15.000
south shore. Tan Gretty was dumped
in each East Patchog, which is thirty

1122
01:24:15.000 --> 01:24:18.600
five minutes from Gilgo Beach, and
McNamee was dumped in North Shirley, Long

1123
01:24:18.600 --> 01:24:23.359
Island about forty minutes from Gilgo Beach. So if you think about it,

1124
01:24:23.479 --> 01:24:27.840
since this guy was active from the
mid nineties and wasn't caught until twenty fourteen,

1125
01:24:28.479 --> 01:24:31.600
any of the victims we've discussed so
far could be one of Bitchroll's.

1126
01:24:32.479 --> 01:24:36.920
Well he wasn't for two victims,
right right, officially evidentially, Yeah,

1127
01:24:38.039 --> 01:24:41.600
even though we probably did more,
we just don't know. They can't prove

1128
01:24:41.640 --> 01:24:45.439
it. But he did. Yeah, I mean both of the I mean,

1129
01:24:45.600 --> 01:24:49.239
his what he's caught for. I
mean the way he dumped the bodies

1130
01:24:49.279 --> 01:24:53.880
were. He dumped them close not
there, but close ish to the sites

1131
01:24:53.920 --> 01:24:58.239
that we're investigating here. And he
was from Manerville where two torsos were found,

1132
01:24:58.640 --> 01:25:03.359
right crazy, it seems like it
both like means like, oh yeah,

1133
01:25:03.680 --> 01:25:08.920
definitely it could be this guy.
But also it creams what I mentioned

1134
01:25:08.960 --> 01:25:11.079
in the first episode, in part
one of this, I mean in the

1135
01:25:11.159 --> 01:25:15.439
last episode where I talked about the
fact that all these spots look juicy to

1136
01:25:15.520 --> 01:25:20.560
dump bodies, I mentioned that how
it looks like an easy thing. It

1137
01:25:20.640 --> 01:25:27.920
looks like a serial killer's white dream. As far as dumping evidence or our

1138
01:25:28.000 --> 01:25:30.079
bodies in general. I mean,
and you know, the ocean cleans.

1139
01:25:30.079 --> 01:25:34.479
All right, I feel like it
could go both ways, and I feel

1140
01:25:34.520 --> 01:25:40.640
like more like the latter in my
case, Like it feels like like this

1141
01:25:40.800 --> 01:25:45.920
guy took advantage of something, see
something that like that looks pretty hard to

1142
01:25:45.000 --> 01:25:47.720
investigate and there I'm pretty sure they
can't find shit there, you know,

1143
01:25:48.119 --> 01:25:51.000
and took advantage of the fact that
being born there, being raised there in

1144
01:25:51.079 --> 01:25:56.199
Manorville, that he could get away
with throughout dumping bodies in there and not

1145
01:25:56.319 --> 01:26:00.439
saying there isn't more. It seems
like we should just scour this entire area

1146
01:26:00.520 --> 01:26:03.439
all the time. You can find
a lot more. Probably, well,

1147
01:26:03.479 --> 01:26:08.279
like they do. Remember we covered
Aokigahara, the forest, the Sea of

1148
01:26:08.359 --> 01:26:12.560
Tree. How they have regular patrols
looking for suicide victome. Yes, I

1149
01:26:12.640 --> 01:26:16.439
mean, I think we should just
have that for this area because this guy.

1150
01:26:16.479 --> 01:26:19.560
I mean, like I said before, it looks like a juicy spot

1151
01:26:19.640 --> 01:26:25.159
to drop dumb bodies. And we're
sure we're focusing on a few of them

1152
01:26:25.199 --> 01:26:28.199
right now. But I'm not surprised
that there was more. That there was

1153
01:26:28.279 --> 01:26:30.039
more, That there are more people
in jail because they dumped their bodies there.

1154
01:26:30.399 --> 01:26:35.000
Yeah, and don't forget Neil falls
up in Manorville. He put the

1155
01:26:35.039 --> 01:26:40.520
bodies in the pine barrens. Pine
barrens are notorious for being a mob dumping

1156
01:26:40.560 --> 01:26:45.479
ground. That's why way heard a
party like, oh yeah, people are

1157
01:26:45.920 --> 01:26:49.199
bodies the pine Baron's a Jersey devil. Supposed he hangs out in the pine

1158
01:26:49.199 --> 01:26:53.600
beards. So yeah, weird,
weird? Could be him? Right?

1159
01:26:53.840 --> 01:26:57.199
Could be him? Could him?
I'm throwing cameras on every tree and the

1160
01:26:57.239 --> 01:27:00.039
pine barns. Yeah, I think
I think Richard Klinsky, the iceman,

1161
01:27:00.119 --> 01:27:05.880
used to dump bodies in the pine
b Yeah. Now, if it wasn't

1162
01:27:05.880 --> 01:27:11.239
Bitchrill, it definitely could have been
this next guy. Now, the next

1163
01:27:11.279 --> 01:27:13.640
person I want to talk to,
the last serial killer I want to talk

1164
01:27:13.640 --> 01:27:17.079
about, is a man named Neil
Falls. Now, Neil Falls is really

1165
01:27:17.119 --> 01:27:21.960
interesting. This is a guy that
moved around a lot, and wherever he

1166
01:27:23.119 --> 01:27:29.039
moved, dead prostitutes tended to follow. Falls had interactions with police in at

1167
01:27:29.199 --> 01:27:34.039
least twenty states. WHOA, it
wasn't anything serious, but mostly traffic stops,

1168
01:27:34.079 --> 01:27:40.800
but it shows that Falls traveled extensively. It's thought that Neil Falls is

1169
01:27:40.840 --> 01:27:46.079
responsible for murdering at least at least
ten sex workers between ninety two and twenty

1170
01:27:46.319 --> 01:27:50.720
fifteen. Falls was living in Henderson, Nevada in the year two thousand,

1171
01:27:51.119 --> 01:27:56.760
which is significant because we have the
dismemberment killings of Las Vegas sex workers between

1172
01:27:57.000 --> 01:28:00.479
three and seven. That would be
Lindsay Marie Harry, who disappeared from Henderson,

1173
01:28:00.560 --> 01:28:04.439
Nevada, where he was living in
two thousand and five and whose legs

1174
01:28:04.439 --> 01:28:10.960
wound up in divern in Illinois.
Victoria Kamara, who's dismembered just outside Las

1175
01:28:11.079 --> 01:28:14.560
Vegas in two thousand and three.
She was found dismembered just outside Las Vegas

1176
01:28:14.600 --> 01:28:16.960
in two thousand and three. Jodi
Brewer, who disappeared from Vegas in two

1177
01:28:16.960 --> 01:28:21.119
thousand and three and was found dismembered
in the Mohave Desert, Jessica Harris,

1178
01:28:21.159 --> 01:28:26.319
who disappeared from North Las Vegas in
two thousand and six with a fat unused

1179
01:28:26.319 --> 01:28:30.479
bank account and this day hasn't been
found. And Misty Says, whose dismembered

1180
01:28:30.520 --> 01:28:34.840
remains were found at Red Rock Canyon
National Conservation Area in two thousand and three.

1181
01:28:35.720 --> 01:28:39.840
These are just the women we've talked
about who could also be victims of

1182
01:28:39.880 --> 01:28:43.319
the Long Island serial Killer, like
where Neil falls in the Long Island Serial

1183
01:28:43.399 --> 01:28:47.720
Killer intersect, proving that there may
be more than one serial killer. Now,

1184
01:28:47.800 --> 01:28:51.439
as for Falls, we'll never know
how many women he killed or how

1185
01:28:51.479 --> 01:28:56.119
many of his victims are still out
there waiting to be discovered. And it's

1186
01:28:56.159 --> 01:28:59.920
not like authorities can question him.
Betty yet put a torch to his ball

1187
01:29:00.159 --> 01:29:02.600
to make him talk. Can't be
done, because this motherfucker is dead as

1188
01:29:02.640 --> 01:29:09.640
a doornail. In just a hilarious
twist of fate, Neil Falls was killed

1189
01:29:09.680 --> 01:29:14.319
by a prostitute he was trying to
kill nice. Now, back in July

1190
01:29:14.479 --> 01:29:19.119
of twenty fifteen, Falls responded to
an ad on backpage posted by a woman

1191
01:29:19.319 --> 01:29:25.000
named Heather Saul. The two agreed
on a price for services, and Fall

1192
01:29:25.239 --> 01:29:28.880
headed over to Heather's place. This
is in West Virginia, where Falls was

1193
01:29:28.920 --> 01:29:31.359
living at the time. Now,
he shows up at the house and within

1194
01:29:31.520 --> 01:29:35.560
seconds of Heather opening the door,
he brandishes a gun, sticks it into

1195
01:29:35.600 --> 01:29:41.920
her gut and says live or die
with a fucking cliche, asshole. And

1196
01:29:42.039 --> 01:29:46.000
at that Falls attacks Heather Saw beats
her up really badly. Her shoulder gets

1197
01:29:46.039 --> 01:29:49.680
separated, he breaks some of her
vertebrae. He's choking her out. She

1198
01:29:49.800 --> 01:29:54.560
really should have died that night,
but instead, Heather grabbed a rake,

1199
01:29:55.239 --> 01:29:58.600
and when Falls he dropped his gun
to try and get the rake away from

1200
01:29:58.640 --> 01:30:01.840
Heather, she grabbed the and she
fired a single shot kind of like over

1201
01:30:01.920 --> 01:30:06.279
her shoulder, hitting Fall right in
his stupid fucking head and killed them instantly.

1202
01:30:08.640 --> 01:30:12.680
Now, when police showed up,
they discovered a number of really scary

1203
01:30:12.840 --> 01:30:16.399
things. For one, Falls had
no money on him. He wasn't going

1204
01:30:16.439 --> 01:30:20.279
there to exchange money for sex.
He was going there to kill Heather,

1205
01:30:20.520 --> 01:30:26.039
right, But he came in basically
started right away exactly. They found four

1206
01:30:26.119 --> 01:30:30.239
pairs of handcuffs in his pockets,
and they found a handwritten list of back

1207
01:30:30.319 --> 01:30:34.079
page sex workers along with their contact
information, a hit list in other words.

1208
01:30:35.199 --> 01:30:39.479
Now, in the trunk of Falls's
car, police found a kill kit

1209
01:30:40.000 --> 01:30:45.439
containing knives, a shovel, a
machete, several axes, a fucking sledge

1210
01:30:45.439 --> 01:30:48.239
hammer, a pair of hiking boots
covered in dirt, trash bags, bleach,

1211
01:30:48.720 --> 01:30:53.760
and other cleaning supplies. And of
course, when police began to investigate

1212
01:30:53.880 --> 01:30:58.720
this guy's background, they start to
piece together that wherever Falls lived, women

1213
01:30:58.760 --> 01:31:02.760
would disappear. And so far from
what I know, police in Las Vegas,

1214
01:31:03.000 --> 01:31:08.680
Texas Florida, Ohio, West Virginia, and Long Island are all looking

1215
01:31:08.760 --> 01:31:14.199
into Falls as a possible suspect in
a ton of cold cases where sex workers

1216
01:31:14.279 --> 01:31:17.520
have gone missing and wound up dead. Now, unfortunately, not a lot

1217
01:31:17.560 --> 01:31:21.439
has been released on Falls and his
possible connection to the women we've been talking

1218
01:31:21.479 --> 01:31:25.079
about, Like if his DNA is
linked to any of our victims. We

1219
01:31:25.119 --> 01:31:29.199
don't know yet. Hopefully we'll know
more soon. But there's no question that

1220
01:31:29.279 --> 01:31:32.600
Heather Saw she's a hero who saved
countless women's lives by killing this piece of

1221
01:31:32.640 --> 01:31:38.720
shit. And so you know,
the shooting was deemed justified. Heatherre was

1222
01:31:38.800 --> 01:31:43.600
not charged in any crime. That's
good. You know this guy, I

1223
01:31:43.680 --> 01:31:45.760
mean, it feels like, I
mean, we almost could have done a

1224
01:31:45.760 --> 01:31:47.600
show about him. He's pretty prolific. I guess there's not a lot of

1225
01:31:47.640 --> 01:31:50.479
information out there on him, yeah, at all, because he's dead,

1226
01:31:50.920 --> 01:31:55.239
Well, because he's dead, but
not saying much. I'm sure we can

1227
01:31:55.279 --> 01:31:58.159
find about the guy a little way. I don't know, maybe not.

1228
01:31:58.399 --> 01:32:00.680
He was a wanderer, he didn't
stay in one place long at all.

1229
01:32:00.720 --> 01:32:04.760
No mad Atlantahah yep, wow,
which makes him so dangerous. Yeah,

1230
01:32:05.119 --> 01:32:12.359
I think pretty dangerous, you know, but do you? But we It's

1231
01:32:12.399 --> 01:32:15.479
funny how we don't have a lot
of information. It's twenty fifteen, this

1232
01:32:15.159 --> 01:32:18.800
little while ago now, not too
long ago yet, but long enough.

1233
01:32:18.840 --> 01:32:21.760
We're like, I feel like if
he was connected, or if it was

1234
01:32:21.920 --> 01:32:30.119
that his living situation corresponded with a
few other disappearances across the country, I

1235
01:32:30.199 --> 01:32:33.560
feel like that would have been released
by now. Well do you think it's

1236
01:32:33.600 --> 01:32:38.159
not holding him back? I don't
know. Investigations take a long time,

1237
01:32:38.640 --> 01:32:42.920
DNA takes a long time analyzing,
and I figure they everyone, everyone involved,

1238
01:32:42.960 --> 01:32:45.359
his dad, especially because this guy's
dad, they can take their time

1239
01:32:45.399 --> 01:32:47.920
with it. That could be too
that's the scenario here, just like the

1240
01:32:47.960 --> 01:32:51.560
attic or cleaning the the basement,
something you don't ever think about because you

1241
01:32:51.600 --> 01:32:56.399
don't have to. I think if
he's found to be connected to the Long

1242
01:32:56.479 --> 01:32:58.680
Island serial killer case, so I
think we'd find out about that, just

1243
01:32:58.720 --> 01:33:01.640
because it's in the news now.
But those other cases, I don't know.

1244
01:33:02.159 --> 01:33:05.039
I don't know if we'll find out
right. I wish I could make

1245
01:33:05.079 --> 01:33:09.640
the call. But see again,
I think I think will always be kind

1246
01:33:09.720 --> 01:33:15.079
of interesting, not a rush,
but serious and important because these sex workers

1247
01:33:15.239 --> 01:33:20.920
have families, you know'd be nice
to see what happened. I'm with you,

1248
01:33:21.479 --> 01:33:26.439
I'm with you, but but I
guess not. Uh, it's so

1249
01:33:26.800 --> 01:33:30.520
strange that this guy comes out of
nowhere that we know nothing about under the

1250
01:33:30.640 --> 01:33:36.119
radar. Yeah, that's pretty cool, pretty cool, bad not like like

1251
01:33:36.319 --> 01:33:40.279
it's kind of like insane that that
could still happen. And you know,

1252
01:33:41.039 --> 01:33:45.720
it just feels insane that cool like
ends. Then it's fascinating that a guy

1253
01:33:45.720 --> 01:33:48.800
that could exists in our day.
Yep. I mean this guy be caught

1254
01:33:48.840 --> 01:33:51.520
for a while apparently, Yeah,
for a long time. When did he

1255
01:33:51.560 --> 01:33:54.600
start? We don't know, right, I don't know, we don't know,

1256
01:33:54.720 --> 01:33:58.199
right, shit, we know shit, But man, scary, she

1257
01:33:58.439 --> 01:34:00.079
killed them. It's pretty scary.
We don't know any terrifying. Yeah,

1258
01:34:01.359 --> 01:34:06.000
and she killed him and just just
a pot shot and it hit hit him

1259
01:34:06.039 --> 01:34:11.039
in the head. Jesus, that's
providence a little bit. Yeah, there's

1260
01:34:11.079 --> 01:34:14.399
some divine intervention there. Yeah,
yeah, yeah, she should have been

1261
01:34:14.439 --> 01:34:18.319
dead. I say he's the most
I like him the most out of these

1262
01:34:18.680 --> 01:34:21.800
one you know, these other serial
killers. I like him the most a

1263
01:34:21.880 --> 01:34:27.520
little bit because I mean, his
methodology is not entirely known well, but

1264
01:34:28.039 --> 01:34:34.800
it fits some of it, enough
of it. Maybe I don't know sledgehammers,

1265
01:34:35.279 --> 01:34:40.159
xes, well, I assumed to
break your body down Jesus, so

1266
01:34:40.239 --> 01:34:43.359
he would be a torso killer.
Maybe yeah, maybe not a trophy killer

1267
01:34:43.439 --> 01:34:45.560
so much based on the weapons he
had. Yeah, maybe that's safe to

1268
01:34:45.600 --> 01:34:49.520
say. Glad he's gone fuck him? Yeah, fuck that guy. Oh

1269
01:34:49.600 --> 01:34:53.720
yeah, yeah, fuck that guy. I hope he's getting raped by demons

1270
01:34:53.720 --> 01:34:58.359
in hell right too. Anyway,
So that ends the theories portion of the

1271
01:34:58.399 --> 01:35:01.039
story. Is it, you know, someone connected Joe Brewer's house, some

1272
01:35:01.199 --> 01:35:08.640
unknown person from Joe Brewer's house sex
parties? Is it a murderous psychopathic cop.

1273
01:35:09.319 --> 01:35:13.079
Is it a whacked out doctor?
Is it, you know, one

1274
01:35:13.119 --> 01:35:16.560
of these four serial killers. Let's
get jump off the theories. Now,

1275
01:35:16.600 --> 01:35:24.119
let's talk about reality. Before we
finally discussed the real suspect, the one

1276
01:35:24.159 --> 01:35:27.520
authorities having custody. Right now,
I want to talk about how we got

1277
01:35:27.560 --> 01:35:30.960
here, how police finally apprehended the
suspect. Now, keep in mind,

1278
01:35:31.000 --> 01:35:35.319
as we already discussed, the Suffolk
County Police didn't do the best job solving

1279
01:35:35.359 --> 01:35:41.840
the murders. Hell Police Chief James
Burke single handedly set the investigation back years

1280
01:35:42.640 --> 01:35:47.359
trying to hide his own egregious misdoings. Whatever those misdoings were. It wasn't

1281
01:35:47.439 --> 01:35:54.159
until February fifteenth, twenty twenty two, when Suffolk County Police Chief Police Commissioner

1282
01:35:54.640 --> 01:36:00.119
Rodney Harrison, the fifth Suffolk County
Police Commissioner to oversee the Long Island seriesial

1283
01:36:00.239 --> 01:36:05.239
killer case, announced the creation of
a brand new task force comprised of homicide

1284
01:36:05.279 --> 01:36:11.640
detectives, the FBI, the Suffolk
County DA, and the Suffolk County Sheriff's

1285
01:36:11.680 --> 01:36:16.319
Office. The formation of this task
force represented the first time federal, state,

1286
01:36:16.399 --> 01:36:23.199
and local agencies jointly dedicated investigators to
solving the Long Island serial killer case,

1287
01:36:24.239 --> 01:36:29.079
utilizing new scientific techniques to advance the
investigation, as well as collaboration on

1288
01:36:29.159 --> 01:36:33.319
evidence gathered throughout the decades. Commissioner
Rodney Harrison made it his mission to bring

1289
01:36:33.359 --> 01:36:38.479
the Long Island serial killer to justice, and it looks like he may have

1290
01:36:38.560 --> 01:36:45.960
done just that as a result of
some fantastic detective work. In March twenty

1291
01:36:45.039 --> 01:36:51.039
twenty two, an investigative team found
the dark green first generation Chevy Avalanche,

1292
01:36:51.520 --> 01:36:57.279
which presumably is the same dark green
Avalanche that picked up Amber Costello from her

1293
01:36:57.319 --> 01:37:01.039
home in West Babylon on September in
twenty ten, the night shot missing.

1294
01:37:02.520 --> 01:37:06.079
By finding the avalanche, investigators were
able to find who it was registered to,

1295
01:37:06.960 --> 01:37:12.560
and through credit card transactions, cell
phone purchases, and cell tower data,

1296
01:37:13.119 --> 01:37:18.439
a picture started to emerge and a
man named Rex Andrew Huerman was placed

1297
01:37:18.479 --> 01:37:24.520
under surveillance for almost a year.
Then, on January twenty sixth, twenty

1298
01:37:24.760 --> 01:37:30.279
twenty three, an astute surveillance team
observed Rex Hewerman tossing a pizza box into

1299
01:37:30.319 --> 01:37:34.640
a garbage can located in front of
a building at three eighty five Fifth Avenue

1300
01:37:34.680 --> 01:37:41.720
in Manhattan. The pizza box was
quickly recovered and DNA was taken from uneaten

1301
01:37:41.800 --> 01:37:45.319
pizza crust. This is like you
could see in a fucking movie. The

1302
01:37:45.439 --> 01:37:50.720
DNA from Heuerman's pizza crust and DNA
from the Caucasian male hair found at the

1303
01:37:50.760 --> 01:37:55.880
bottom of the burlap used to wrap
Megan Waterman's body. But we gotta go

1304
01:37:55.960 --> 01:38:00.640
back to the last episode listeners.
They were a match and excluded ninety nine

1305
01:38:00.720 --> 01:38:05.399
point ninety six of the North American
population from being the owner of the male

1306
01:38:05.479 --> 01:38:12.199
hare found on Megan. It's fucking
Huerman detectives built their case, and on

1307
01:38:12.359 --> 01:38:16.479
July thirteenth, twenty twenty three,
they arrested Rex Huerman without incident as he

1308
01:38:16.600 --> 01:38:21.680
was casually walking down the street in
midtown Manhattan. Reports say that Huerman asked

1309
01:38:23.079 --> 01:38:26.800
why am I being arrested? And
then he asked for a lawyer, and

1310
01:38:26.920 --> 01:38:30.399
after he has read as Miranda rights, he's been sitting in the sixty square

1311
01:38:30.439 --> 01:38:36.119
foot cell in Suffolk County Correctional Facility
ever since. So who is this Rex

1312
01:38:36.199 --> 01:38:41.199
Hireman? Well, our boy,
Rex is a fifty nine year old white

1313
01:38:41.239 --> 01:38:45.359
guy from Massapequa Park, New York, which is in Nassau County on the

1314
01:38:45.479 --> 01:38:53.000
south shore of Long Island, just
six miles from Gilgo Beach and approximately three

1315
01:38:53.079 --> 01:38:56.399
miles from the Dafeo House in Amityville. Sorry, I had to slip that

1316
01:38:56.439 --> 01:39:01.039
in there. Police reports say that
Rex stand and six feet six inches tall,

1317
01:39:01.439 --> 01:39:05.319
damn and weighs two hundred and seventy
five pounds. Is Viking. He

1318
01:39:05.600 --> 01:39:10.319
is a beast. I think he's
taller man. He looks taller to me

1319
01:39:11.239 --> 01:39:15.800
because we're sure that's why. Now
Ogrish is the term that keeps getting thrown

1320
01:39:15.800 --> 01:39:19.439
around to describe this guy, right
like how Dave Shaler described the client that

1321
01:39:19.600 --> 01:39:24.279
visited Amber Costello. So Goliath has
to beat him, right, right,

1322
01:39:24.359 --> 01:39:27.600
David Belie, I mean David has
to beat him. But that's how Dave

1323
01:39:27.640 --> 01:39:30.760
Shaller described him. That's the one
that when he visited Amber Costello right before

1324
01:39:30.800 --> 01:39:33.960
she disappeared from her home in West
Babylon. If you remember from the last

1325
01:39:34.000 --> 01:39:42.199
episode, Schaller described this client as
large, white and ogrish, approximately sixty

1326
01:39:42.239 --> 01:39:45.359
four to six six in height in
his mid forties, which Hreman would have

1327
01:39:45.399 --> 01:39:49.560
been in twenty ten when Costilla went
missing, with dark, bushy hair and

1328
01:39:49.680 --> 01:39:55.640
big oval style nineteen seventies type classes. What is it with murderers in these

1329
01:39:55.680 --> 01:40:00.199
big thick nineteen seven from Minehunter?
He had those big kind of glasses.

1330
01:40:00.279 --> 01:40:05.039
To you, he was like the
main seal killer that they portrayed in that

1331
01:40:05.199 --> 01:40:10.439
show, which again is Bason a
real guy with the bird. There was

1332
01:40:10.439 --> 01:40:14.239
another big guy ball I think white. It's it's on the tip of my

1333
01:40:14.319 --> 01:40:16.720
tongue. I told you, on
the tip of my tongue too. Boo.

1334
01:40:17.880 --> 01:40:20.720
I can't remember his name off the
top of my head, but yeah,

1335
01:40:20.760 --> 01:40:24.920
big Oval nineteen seventies type classes.
All these fucking serial killers have those

1336
01:40:24.960 --> 01:40:29.439
glasses and Heureman does in fact have
dark, bushy hair and he wears glasses.

1337
01:40:30.720 --> 01:40:33.079
Human is also a husband and a
father. He was married to a

1338
01:40:33.119 --> 01:40:38.840
woman named Asa Ellerup for twenty five
years, and she filed for divorce shortly

1339
01:40:38.880 --> 01:40:42.840
after Rex was arrested. And he's
got two kids, a daughter named Victoria

1340
01:40:43.000 --> 01:40:48.640
twenty six and a step son named
Christopher thirty three who's developmentally disabled. And

1341
01:40:48.720 --> 01:40:55.279
apparently Rex went to high school with
actor Billy Baldwin. So there's that kemper

1342
01:40:55.399 --> 01:40:59.880
by the way ed ed kemper.
That's it. That's it, and believe

1343
01:40:59.880 --> 01:41:03.399
it or not, Rex Human is
an architect and he owned his own firm

1344
01:41:03.720 --> 01:41:10.279
called our Age Consulting and Associates,
which is located in midtown Manhattan right by

1345
01:41:10.319 --> 01:41:15.720
the Empire State Building Wow. And
he included American Airlines, Target, Nike

1346
01:41:15.960 --> 01:41:19.039
foot Locker, and the New York
Department of Environmental Protection among his clients.

1347
01:41:19.560 --> 01:41:23.880
So he wasn't some fly by night
guy. He had some big clients that

1348
01:41:23.960 --> 01:41:29.760
he worked with. He was a
well established architect. And if you remember,

1349
01:41:29.880 --> 01:41:33.000
go back a few minutes ago when
we talked about Joel Rifkin, when

1350
01:41:33.039 --> 01:41:39.279
the police questioned Joe Rifkin from behind
bars and his opinion. He's a construction

1351
01:41:39.399 --> 01:41:44.640
worker, a landscaper or something like
that. Architect pretty all of them too.

1352
01:41:44.840 --> 01:41:46.039
It's in the ball to deal with
landscapers and other people. I mean,

1353
01:41:46.079 --> 01:41:49.880
they're like more had hancho ish,
but they they fucking know that.

1354
01:41:50.079 --> 01:41:57.840
Also they care about feet separation and
perfect you know, saying feet that's true

1355
01:41:58.039 --> 01:42:00.439
that I thought you meant cut off
of feet. I'm sorry, Oh wow,

1356
01:42:00.520 --> 01:42:06.560
I know that's sure. That wouldn't
that was literally you went for good

1357
01:42:08.359 --> 01:42:13.199
thing. Were gonna call it the
thirty eight penises supposed to feet anyway,

1358
01:42:13.520 --> 01:42:17.039
But I'm saying it makes a little
more sense the symmetry of the bill the

1359
01:42:17.079 --> 01:42:19.560
Gill go for. That's a good
point. You know, he's a very

1360
01:42:20.880 --> 01:42:25.800
mathematical brain. My grandfather was an
architect and he did throngings like that.

1361
01:42:25.960 --> 01:42:29.199
He was very methodical about it.
Wow, that's a great point. I

1362
01:42:29.199 --> 01:42:30.880
didn't think of that. Good point. Not that I'm an expert, my

1363
01:42:30.920 --> 01:42:34.239
grandfather was not. No, but
still that makes sense about the spacing out.

1364
01:42:34.800 --> 01:42:39.760
Interesting also, three twenty feet two
hundred and twenty feet on those other

1365
01:42:39.880 --> 01:42:45.159
murders, murders, oh, the
ones in New Jersey, No Ocean View.

1366
01:42:45.399 --> 01:42:49.279
No wasn't the ocean was. The
Gilgo ones were five hundred feet.

1367
01:42:49.439 --> 01:42:55.079
There was one set of murder the
feet behind that hotel outside of Atlantic City.

1368
01:42:55.119 --> 01:42:57.800
That was them. That was them. Okay, yeah, and there

1369
01:42:57.840 --> 01:43:02.720
were four of them right, and
they weren't dismembered. No interesting, interesting,

1370
01:43:04.079 --> 01:43:09.359
so Urge Consulting now now the company. Rex's company website is no longer

1371
01:43:09.399 --> 01:43:12.199
active, of course, but I
was able to find a version of his

1372
01:43:12.359 --> 01:43:15.520
company website on the wayback Machine,
and I left a link in the show

1373
01:43:15.600 --> 01:43:19.199
notes. So if you want to
click around an accused serial murders website,

1374
01:43:19.560 --> 01:43:23.720
eat your heart out. I flipped
through the site and I got to say

1375
01:43:23.720 --> 01:43:27.680
it was a little creepy seeing,
you know, Rex's contact information and his

1376
01:43:28.279 --> 01:43:30.920
photos of his projects and reading about
his achievements. I don't know why,

1377
01:43:31.000 --> 01:43:33.520
but it just really kind of gave
me the creeps. Oh yeah, because

1378
01:43:33.560 --> 01:43:38.039
you're now. As a matter of
fact, I want to play a clip

1379
01:43:38.359 --> 01:43:45.680
oscar of Rex Huerman being interviewed by
a YouTuber named Antoine Amera about Rex's architectural

1380
01:43:45.760 --> 01:43:49.960
business. Now. Amera runs a
YouTube channel called Bonjoor Realty, and he

1381
01:43:50.039 --> 01:43:55.560
did a one on one interview with
Rex in twenty twenty two at the Rig

1382
01:43:55.680 --> 01:44:00.840
Consulting and Associate's office in Manhattan's recent
Yeah, exactly just before he was caught

1383
01:44:00.640 --> 01:44:03.960
ask your can we play that clip
please? Yeah? Okay. Anyway,

1384
01:44:04.039 --> 01:44:10.520
let's dive in. So tell us
you know who you are, where you're

1385
01:44:10.560 --> 01:44:15.680
from, and how long you've been
in New York. Okay, Rex Hureman,

1386
01:44:15.880 --> 01:44:20.399
I'm an architect. I'm an architectural
consultant. I'm a troubleshooter. Born

1387
01:44:20.479 --> 01:44:26.000
and raised on Long Island. Okay, been working in Manhattan since nineteen eighty

1388
01:44:26.119 --> 01:44:31.640
seven. Oh wow, very long
time. Okay, So this brings directly

1389
01:44:31.720 --> 01:44:36.319
to my first question. So,
you know, can you explain to our

1390
01:44:36.399 --> 01:44:43.039
audience what is it that you do, not the architect part of your business,

1391
01:44:43.159 --> 01:44:47.399
but the other part of the business, which is my understanding that you're

1392
01:44:47.720 --> 01:44:53.359
kind of a facilitator with the Department
of Building. Is that correct? But

1393
01:44:53.479 --> 01:44:59.239
please tell us that's correct, but
much more Okay, when I asked a

1394
01:44:59.319 --> 01:45:05.039
much more mean, I do trouble
shooting, architectural trouble shooting and negotiations with

1395
01:45:05.159 --> 01:45:10.000
the building Department. What I mean
by that is, do we do the

1396
01:45:10.079 --> 01:45:15.199
standard stuff with the building department?
Handle your filings. I have other clients

1397
01:45:15.239 --> 01:45:20.479
who are a lot of other architects, and we'll handle their interactions with the

1398
01:45:20.520 --> 01:45:27.079
building department, especially out of city
architects, because they're a little afraid of

1399
01:45:27.159 --> 01:45:34.840
the city. And when a job
that should have been routine suddenly becomes not

1400
01:45:35.119 --> 01:45:41.359
routine, I get the phone call. Gotcha, whether it's an old building

1401
01:45:41.640 --> 01:45:46.000
and they need somebody to understands and
can maneuver the nineteen thirty eight building code

1402
01:45:47.520 --> 01:45:51.439
or the current building code. You
look surprised when I say nineteen thirty eight

1403
01:45:51.520 --> 01:46:00.399
building code. I've actually used the
nineteen oh one old tenement laws here in

1404
01:46:00.479 --> 01:46:03.000
the City of New York, and
you can legally do so, all right.

1405
01:46:03.039 --> 01:46:12.880
My last question, if you were
a tool or an object to help

1406
01:46:12.960 --> 01:46:18.760
you in your uh, to help
you to bring your business to greater heights,

1407
01:46:19.920 --> 01:46:27.239
what would it be. That's an
interesting question, I know, because

1408
01:46:28.000 --> 01:46:30.119
for what I do, we have
to have so many tools in the toolbox.

1409
01:46:30.640 --> 01:46:33.800
Just want just one, just want
or an object. You just have

1410
01:46:33.880 --> 01:46:38.039
to be a tour You can be
a nubject, you know what I know?

1411
01:46:38.520 --> 01:46:42.680
All right. One of the things
I learned from my father was furniture

1412
01:46:42.720 --> 01:46:51.399
building. He was an aerospace engineer
and built satellites and runs into and build

1413
01:46:51.439 --> 01:46:55.720
furniture at home, and I still
build it in the same exact workshop.

1414
01:46:56.840 --> 01:47:00.760
So I have one tool that's pretty
much using almost every job, and it's

1415
01:47:00.760 --> 01:47:05.760
actually a cabinet maker's hammer. Kivy
oh okay, kevy dates maker hammer.

1416
01:47:05.920 --> 01:47:14.359
Okay. It is persuasive enough when
I need to persuade something, not someone

1417
01:47:14.920 --> 01:47:21.359
something, and it always yields excellent
results. And at the end of the

1418
01:47:21.479 --> 01:47:28.840
project, whatever piece of furniture or
what I'm working on, it always helps

1419
01:47:28.920 --> 01:47:32.520
it come out beautifully. Okay,
great, So you would be kind of

1420
01:47:32.560 --> 01:47:36.760
a that kind of hammer for your
uh, for your business, that's what

1421
01:47:36.880 --> 01:47:42.000
you're saying. Yeah, there's an
exist that's what you would do. Sometimes

1422
01:47:42.079 --> 01:47:48.359
I have to be the heavy framing
hammer, other times something lightweight hammer,

1423
01:47:48.560 --> 01:47:53.960
just to nudge things along. All
right, I guess it's a hammer.

1424
01:47:55.159 --> 01:47:59.880
It is so fucking chilling to hear
Rex talk business so fluently and matter of

1425
01:48:00.079 --> 01:48:05.800
factly, while behind the businessman demeanor. Sits this raging homicidal animal allegedly,

1426
01:48:05.880 --> 01:48:11.840
right, gotta say allegedly, a
raging homicidal animal. And I'll tell you

1427
01:48:11.920 --> 01:48:15.359
when a Mira asks his final question, what tool Rex would be to help

1428
01:48:15.399 --> 01:48:20.119
improve his business, and Rex answers
a cabinet maker's hammer because it could be

1429
01:48:20.199 --> 01:48:26.199
persuasive. My fucking blood ran cold. And then Rex goes on to say

1430
01:48:26.239 --> 01:48:30.760
how he uses that tool in almost
every job. I think Rex was letting

1431
01:48:30.760 --> 01:48:33.239
a little of his dark side slip
through, kind of like playing with the

1432
01:48:33.279 --> 01:48:35.359
mirror without a mirror, even right, right, right, right right,

1433
01:48:36.239 --> 01:48:39.479
I'd be more fucked up by more
accurate to say, like, oh,

1434
01:48:39.520 --> 01:48:45.039
handcuffs obviously, duhoy in a mirror. He's such a weird interviewer. I'll

1435
01:48:45.119 --> 01:48:48.159
leave a link to the whole interview
in the show notes. Okay, he

1436
01:48:48.399 --> 01:48:53.119
just all he does is like nervous, like you try to make it when

1437
01:48:53.119 --> 01:48:55.720
you're interviewing someone, you kind of
laugh at what they say to kind of

1438
01:48:55.800 --> 01:48:57.920
have you interviewed people, I mean
for this show, you have, right,

1439
01:48:58.039 --> 01:49:00.880
a couple of times we've done it. It's a little hard to get

1440
01:49:00.920 --> 01:49:03.800
a little thing on it, especially
if you're not sure it is. But

1441
01:49:04.159 --> 01:49:09.600
this face on the subject, he
laughs, uncomfortable, awkward, laughing,

1442
01:49:09.880 --> 01:49:13.439
very awkwardly. Yeah, Like Rex
doesn't say anything fucking funny at all,

1443
01:49:13.760 --> 01:49:15.800
and a mirror laughs. He just
it's kind of well, I think it

1444
01:49:15.920 --> 01:49:20.760
might be it's because this guy is
Goliath. This guy is uh, this

1445
01:49:21.239 --> 01:49:25.079
guy is a big guy. It's
a mountain. He's the Mountainer from Game

1446
01:49:25.119 --> 01:49:27.680
of Thrones. Yeah, kind of
you know what I'm saying, Like,

1447
01:49:28.159 --> 01:49:30.800
I mean, you see perk Walk, it might be hard on I don't

1448
01:49:30.800 --> 01:49:32.520
know how I would react to.
I don't know. You know what I'm

1449
01:49:32.560 --> 01:49:38.880
saying. You'll see perk walk photos, perp walk photos of Rex among the

1450
01:49:39.119 --> 01:49:41.880
you know, a couple of cops. Yeah, he towers over. He's

1451
01:49:41.920 --> 01:49:44.439
got course, of course, that's
what I'm saying. He's got to be

1452
01:49:44.520 --> 01:49:47.920
taller than six six. But yeah, I just think because you know Ameras,

1453
01:49:47.920 --> 01:49:50.840
he's foreign, I think he's proof
that there are giants. Honestly,

1454
01:49:51.720 --> 01:49:56.680
sorry, So it's just it's uncomfortable. It's kind of sweet. Yeah,

1455
01:49:56.840 --> 01:49:59.800
you can tell he's like nervous,
but he's trying to get to his interviews

1456
01:50:00.279 --> 01:50:02.640
to be at ease, So he's
laughing even when things that aren't funny air

1457
01:50:02.800 --> 01:50:06.359
Anyway, just watch the video you'll
see what I'm talking about. But of

1458
01:50:06.479 --> 01:50:11.439
course, Amera himself has been interviewed
about his interaction with Rex. Now that

1459
01:50:11.520 --> 01:50:15.720
everything's come out, and what he
recalls most about heroman is his imposing presence.

1460
01:50:16.359 --> 01:50:20.439
Not an intimidating presence, Amira said, but just this very large,

1461
01:50:20.600 --> 01:50:25.840
imposing presence because Rex is a large
guy, right the ogre. Yeah.

1462
01:50:26.399 --> 01:50:30.319
That and Rex's handshake, Amera said, shaking Rex's hand was like shaking hands

1463
01:50:30.359 --> 01:50:35.439
with a slab of marble. Just
an impossibly strong hand handshake. That's such

1464
01:50:35.439 --> 01:50:41.960
a strangulation made for hand Yeah.
And of course Amir also commented on how

1465
01:50:42.039 --> 01:50:45.520
detail oriented Rex was. Kind of
that goes back to how you're saying,

1466
01:50:45.520 --> 01:50:49.359
the methodical placing of these bodies detail
oriented. Yeah. So again, listeners

1467
01:50:49.399 --> 01:50:53.399
are left a link to this entire
interview in the show notes, as well

1468
01:50:53.439 --> 01:50:58.039
as there's a photograph in the show
notes of Rex and Antoine taking selfies together

1469
01:50:58.119 --> 01:51:02.399
in sunglasses. Check out. It's
very disturbing. Yeah, so go check

1470
01:51:02.439 --> 01:51:05.720
that out. And since we're talking
business, believe it or not, according

1471
01:51:05.760 --> 01:51:10.840
to these net worth websites where you
could look up how much money people got

1472
01:51:11.399 --> 01:51:15.319
as of this year, Rex Hureman
is apparently worth between three and seven million

1473
01:51:15.359 --> 01:51:19.840
dollars. How about that. That's
all we really know about this guy.

1474
01:51:20.560 --> 01:51:25.319
Not much information is coming out right
now, we know Rex Huerman is being

1475
01:51:25.399 --> 01:51:30.560
charged with first degree murders in the
death of Marie excuse me, Melissa Bartholemy

1476
01:51:30.960 --> 01:51:33.720
on or around July tenth, two
thousand and nine, Megan Watermen on or

1477
01:51:33.800 --> 01:51:39.880
around June sixth, twenty ten,
and Amber Costello on or around September second,

1478
01:51:39.920 --> 01:51:43.960
twenty ten. He's also being charged
with murder in the second degree for

1479
01:51:44.039 --> 01:51:49.520
the deaths of Bartholomy, Waterman,
and Costello. Not Maureene, not Marine.

1480
01:51:49.720 --> 01:51:55.039
Right, he hasn't been charging her
death, but Rex, according to

1481
01:51:55.079 --> 01:51:59.640
authorities, is the prime suspect in
her murder. Authorities say Marine's death will

1482
01:51:59.640 --> 01:52:03.960
be resis soon and that there is
substantial evidence of human's involvement in her death,

1483
01:52:04.600 --> 01:52:09.239
including them fitting that of the other
three women found a call go for

1484
01:52:09.319 --> 01:52:15.279
which he is the call one.
Yes. What's the difference between accused and

1485
01:52:15.680 --> 01:52:17.359
charged? Like? I don't get
it, like the first and second degree?

1486
01:52:17.520 --> 01:52:19.880
No? No, no, no, because earlier you said that he

1487
01:52:20.039 --> 01:52:24.119
was accused and sitting in jail,
but it's allegedly still so he's not charged.

1488
01:52:24.319 --> 01:52:27.159
No, he's simply he's accused.
How does that work? How can

1489
01:52:27.199 --> 01:52:31.079
he hold someone that isn't charged?
I am I not understanding something. I

1490
01:52:31.119 --> 01:52:35.520
guess there's ample and evidence to hold
him, but they're just looking for the

1491
01:52:35.640 --> 01:52:40.720
smoking gun that says he did it. So there's enough evidence to hold him

1492
01:52:40.760 --> 01:52:44.680
despite the DNA. So that's that's
probably one big one that's keeping them behind

1493
01:52:44.760 --> 01:52:47.199
bars, his DNA, right,
because you know, they got him five

1494
01:52:47.239 --> 01:52:49.399
present this kind of thing with the
judge, and the judge is like,

1495
01:52:49.399 --> 01:52:51.479
oh, okay, yeah, keep
this fucking guy in right, Okay,

1496
01:52:51.560 --> 01:52:54.760
it's got to be the DNA that's
holding it up, that's hooking him.

1497
01:52:54.880 --> 01:52:57.359
I mean, that's the strongest thing
I can think of. Yeah, that

1498
01:52:57.560 --> 01:53:00.800
and whatever else they found in his
house, which I'll get to, Okay,

1499
01:53:00.880 --> 01:53:04.319
go ahead. So yeah, so
there he is. He's sitting first

1500
01:53:04.359 --> 01:53:08.720
and second degree murders. Of course, Human's lawyer entered a plea of not

1501
01:53:08.800 --> 01:53:13.039
guilty, and he requested bail,
but thankfully, a judge denied the bail

1502
01:53:13.199 --> 01:53:20.600
request, citing the extreme depravity of
Rex's alleged crimes and because Rex definitely has

1503
01:53:20.680 --> 01:53:26.439
the means to flee money. Yes, and fun fact, because he also

1504
01:53:26.560 --> 01:53:31.359
has two hundred and ninety seven guns
stashed at his house in Massapeeko Park and

1505
01:53:31.479 --> 01:53:35.560
only ninety two of those are permitted
registered by the way. Wow, So

1506
01:53:35.640 --> 01:53:39.800
there's no telling what Rex would do
if he got out on bail and got

1507
01:53:39.880 --> 01:53:43.119
access to this weapon statue. Right, it could be like one of those

1508
01:53:43.159 --> 01:53:46.279
things where they go after him and
he holds off and shoots everyone. Well,

1509
01:53:46.319 --> 01:53:49.319
and that's exactly why police wanted to
arrest him outside of his home.

1510
01:53:50.199 --> 01:53:53.239
Oh they knew that, going.
Oh yeah, yes, if you look

1511
01:53:53.279 --> 01:53:55.600
into a guy, Pike can tell
it. Oh, this guy's registered for

1512
01:53:55.680 --> 01:53:58.760
ninety two guns, right right,
Okay, got it. Because there's just

1513
01:53:58.840 --> 01:54:00.840
no telling what he might do if
he was cornered at home with that number

1514
01:54:00.880 --> 01:54:04.520
of weapons atroposals. Get him out
there, get him out in the world

1515
01:54:04.520 --> 01:54:08.760
where he doesn't have access. So
of course no bail was set for Rex,

1516
01:54:08.840 --> 01:54:13.119
thank god. Now in July fourteenth, twenty twenty three, the day

1517
01:54:13.199 --> 01:54:18.560
after Hueman was arrested, detectives executed
search warrants at his Massupeico Park home and

1518
01:54:18.680 --> 01:54:23.920
at his Manhattan office. Now,
unfortunately, not a lot of information has

1519
01:54:23.960 --> 01:54:28.640
come out regarding exactly what, if
anything, was found inside Rex's home that

1520
01:54:28.800 --> 01:54:31.680
ties them to the Long Island serial
killer case. Was there any evidence that

1521
01:54:31.800 --> 01:54:35.239
victims were brought to the house,
or any of them killed inside the home

1522
01:54:35.840 --> 01:54:40.560
was Rex keeping trophies. We just
don't know yet. We do know that

1523
01:54:40.640 --> 01:54:43.840
a shit ton of weapons were found, and a portion of those weapons were

1524
01:54:43.880 --> 01:54:47.560
found in Rex's basement in what's described
as a walk in vault with a big

1525
01:54:47.640 --> 01:54:54.039
iron door. Now, a lot
of speculation surrounds this vault. Some said

1526
01:54:54.079 --> 01:54:58.680
it was actually a sound proof room, which drove the Internet nuts because now

1527
01:54:58.840 --> 01:55:02.119
Rex had a spot inside at his
home where he could have murdered women undetected,

1528
01:55:02.840 --> 01:55:08.640
and somewhere he could have even kept
bodies. But his wife Asa insists

1529
01:55:08.720 --> 01:55:14.000
to the media that this soundproof room
is simply a six foot safe used for

1530
01:55:14.079 --> 01:55:19.079
storing guns. Again, we just
don't know. Rex's backyard was excavated and

1531
01:55:19.439 --> 01:55:27.560
media drone footage, so reporters are
actually flying drones. They caught investigators huddled

1532
01:55:27.560 --> 01:55:31.640
around some strange objects unearthed during this
dig, but based solely on this drone

1533
01:55:31.680 --> 01:55:36.560
footage, experts can't agree what those
objects are the human bones, animal remains,

1534
01:55:36.840 --> 01:55:42.399
animal remains are something else. Entirely, we know cops found and seized

1535
01:55:42.439 --> 01:55:48.039
the Chevy Avalanche and sees a bunch
of playboys. They also sees two very

1536
01:55:48.159 --> 01:55:55.079
strange items. One is what's described
as a child sized doll encased in wood

1537
01:55:55.159 --> 01:55:58.760
and glass, and the other is
a painting of a woman with a battered

1538
01:55:58.880 --> 01:56:01.760
face. Now, I left photos
of the doll and the painting in the

1539
01:56:01.840 --> 01:56:06.399
show notes. And what these items
mean to the investigators, we don't know.

1540
01:56:08.079 --> 01:56:11.560
But they took them. They took
them mean something to them. It

1541
01:56:11.680 --> 01:56:16.520
does, it does. I also
heard they took like a cat scratching post,

1542
01:56:16.600 --> 01:56:24.880
like a play Yeah, there's posts
and little platforms and little bucket things

1543
01:56:24.920 --> 01:56:28.359
they could sleep, and they took
one of those or multiple of those,

1544
01:56:28.520 --> 01:56:31.560
I guess, And I'm guessing it's
to see if there's animal hairs on the

1545
01:56:31.600 --> 01:56:36.199
bodies that were found that match Rex's
animals. It's only that makes sense to

1546
01:56:36.279 --> 01:56:41.439
me. But a painting and a
glass, a doll in glass, it's

1547
01:56:41.520 --> 01:56:45.680
weird. Yeah. And after a
nearly two week search of Rex's property,

1548
01:56:45.720 --> 01:56:49.119
that's how long they were in his
house, all the police really say is

1549
01:56:49.159 --> 01:56:55.119
that the search was fruitful and that
they've collected massive amounts of evidence. Damn

1550
01:56:57.159 --> 01:57:01.520
boys. Well, unfortunately all this
evidence got to bealogue thoroughly analyzed, so

1551
01:57:01.640 --> 01:57:06.840
unfortunately it'll probably be forever until we
know exactly that all this was seen this

1552
01:57:08.000 --> 01:57:10.680
year, yes, a few months
ago. Yeah, this is not an

1553
01:57:10.720 --> 01:57:14.199
old case, guys. They have
not gonna really shit, not for a

1554
01:57:14.279 --> 01:57:15.840
while, not for a while,
and not even like the day after he

1555
01:57:15.920 --> 01:57:18.520
gets convicted for real, put to
jail. It'll be like still after a

1556
01:57:18.560 --> 01:57:23.319
while after that, probably is it. Yeah, yep. So you know,

1557
01:57:23.359 --> 01:57:26.199
it's gonna take us a while to
find that stuff out. And nothing

1558
01:57:26.279 --> 01:57:29.800
has been said about his office in
Manhattan, so I don't know if they

1559
01:57:29.880 --> 01:57:32.359
actually found anything there or not.
There's nothing neither positive nor negative. Nothing.

1560
01:57:32.520 --> 01:57:36.640
They just that the art was executed. No word on what they found

1561
01:57:36.680 --> 01:57:42.520
there, if anything. Speaking of
on July sixteenth, there was another warrant

1562
01:57:42.600 --> 01:57:46.880
executed, this time at a self
storage unit in Amityville. Rex rented out

1563
01:57:46.920 --> 01:57:50.680
this unit and it's located just two
miles from his house in Massapeico Park.

1564
01:57:51.720 --> 01:57:55.399
Now, again, we have no
idea why the police went after the storage

1565
01:57:55.479 --> 01:57:59.439
unit what they might have found there, but multiple articles I've read stated that

1566
01:57:59.520 --> 01:58:04.359
police were looking for body parts and
trophies in this storage unit. But again,

1567
01:58:04.479 --> 01:58:08.479
to date, we don't know what, if anything, they found that

1568
01:58:08.640 --> 01:58:14.600
ties Heromanto along the Yeah, yeah, okay, So what do police have

1569
01:58:14.760 --> 01:58:16.279
on Rex? They gotta have something
to hold them without bail, right,

1570
01:58:17.159 --> 01:58:20.239
I told you about the items taken
from Rex's house. We know they got

1571
01:58:20.279 --> 01:58:25.680
the Chevy Avalanche. But if anything
DNA, which I'll get to. But

1572
01:58:25.760 --> 01:58:29.119
if anything was found in his truck
like DNA from the women, we don't

1573
01:58:29.159 --> 01:58:32.840
know. But remember that truck was
like the lynchpin because finding the truck got

1574
01:58:32.880 --> 01:58:36.439
the police a name. It got
them the pizza box yea. Since they

1575
01:58:36.520 --> 01:58:41.920
had the name, police were able
to access credit card information which sold purchases,

1576
01:58:42.600 --> 01:58:46.079
specifically burner phone purchases, and in
this case, burner phones are really

1577
01:58:46.119 --> 01:58:50.119
important. So let's take a look
at that. Rex thought he was really

1578
01:58:50.239 --> 01:58:56.880
slick when he used these quote unquote
untraceable throwaway phones to contact his victims,

1579
01:58:57.439 --> 01:59:01.119
and really the information authorities were able
to gather about these phones, specifically when

1580
01:59:01.239 --> 01:59:06.800
and where the phone's pinged specific cell
towers, along with how Rex's personal phone

1581
01:59:08.319 --> 01:59:13.560
and victim cell phones also pinged specific
cell tours. This information is what really

1582
01:59:13.600 --> 01:59:17.880
put the final nails in Rex Heureman's
coffin. Now the cell data, it's

1583
01:59:17.960 --> 01:59:24.279
really involved, and the details could
easily be found by googling Rex Hereman's bail

1584
01:59:24.319 --> 01:59:28.520
application. If you really want to
read this in nitty gritty detail, just

1585
01:59:28.640 --> 01:59:32.439
google Rex Heureman bail application. It's
out there. What you need to know

1586
01:59:32.600 --> 01:59:39.600
is that investigators found no instance where
Rex Hereman was in a separate location away

1587
01:59:40.039 --> 01:59:45.800
from victim cell phones. Whenever taunting
calls were made using Marine Brainer's barn cell

1588
01:59:45.880 --> 01:59:50.680
phone and Melissa Barthelemy's cell phone.
Whenever and wherever a victim's cell phone moved

1589
01:59:51.359 --> 01:59:56.079
or whenever a burner phone move that
was used to communicate with a victim,

1590
01:59:56.720 --> 02:00:00.720
so did Rex Hureerman's personal cell phone. Like this dumb bastard had a burner

1591
02:00:00.840 --> 02:00:05.680
phone or a victim's phone in his
hand or to his ear while his personal

1592
02:00:05.760 --> 02:00:10.920
phone was in his pocket or on
the front seat of his car. Try

1593
02:00:10.960 --> 02:00:16.239
to explain away that one plus nearly
all communications Berner phones had with the victims

1594
02:00:16.760 --> 02:00:21.880
conveniently pinged cell towers in Massapeeko Park, which we now know is where Rex

1595
02:00:21.920 --> 02:00:28.119
Human lived, Midtown Manhattan, where
Rex he Woman worked, Amityville, where

1596
02:00:28.119 --> 02:00:30.800
rex he Wuman kept a self storage
unit, and West Babylon, where Ambi

1597
02:00:30.880 --> 02:00:39.720
Costello lived and disappeared. It is
It's wonderful or gladdening even to think that

1598
02:00:39.920 --> 02:00:49.359
this guy once saw a movie about
how wonderful burners are, like how glorious

1599
02:00:49.840 --> 02:00:57.720
they are used for secrecy and then
it causes downfall or I'll come, I

1600
02:00:57.760 --> 02:01:01.439
guess previous and stuff. But yes, wow, it's literally like he was

1601
02:01:01.479 --> 02:01:04.600
making a taunting call. Yeah,
I'm watching your sister rot. Well he's

1602
02:01:04.600 --> 02:01:08.680
got his fucking personal cell phone in
his pocket. Yeah you know. God.

1603
02:01:08.920 --> 02:01:12.720
Also, don't buy a bernafone with
your credit card. The same cash

1604
02:01:13.319 --> 02:01:15.880
cash, always cash cash and barter
it if you have to, But don't

1605
02:01:16.039 --> 02:01:19.479
use your fucking don't use something that
connects. That's the whole point Yep,

1606
02:01:19.760 --> 02:01:25.720
how do you not know that?
Unbelievable? So Bernafone is very important to

1607
02:01:25.800 --> 02:01:29.840
the case right right now. What
about DNA. In the last episode,

1608
02:01:29.840 --> 02:01:32.560
we talked about how male and female
hair was found on three of the victims

1609
02:01:32.560 --> 02:01:38.960
found on Gilgol Beach. Through rigorous
DNA testing of the female female hair found

1610
02:01:39.039 --> 02:01:44.920
on Amber Costello, Megan Waterman and
Marine Brainerd Barnes when compared to DNA extracted

1611
02:01:44.960 --> 02:01:49.399
from bottles taken from Rex Hereman's garbage
outside his home, it was determined with

1612
02:01:49.520 --> 02:01:57.239
over ninety nine percent accuracy that the
female Caucasian hairs came from Rex Hereman's wife,

1613
02:01:57.760 --> 02:02:00.880
Asa Ellerup. Wow. Now,
as of today, there's no evidence

1614
02:02:00.960 --> 02:02:04.640
that Asa participated in any of the
murders or that she even knew what her

1615
02:02:04.680 --> 02:02:09.119
husband was up to. In fact, a lot of the murders were committed

1616
02:02:09.119 --> 02:02:14.319
while Asa was verifiably out of New
York State on vacation. All we can

1617
02:02:14.359 --> 02:02:16.920
say right now is that ASA's hair
wound up on the three deceased women through

1618
02:02:16.960 --> 02:02:20.960
an unintentional transfer by Rex. I
mean, my wife has really long hair,

1619
02:02:21.000 --> 02:02:24.800
and it's everywhere. It's on my
clothes, in my car, all

1620
02:02:24.880 --> 02:02:27.359
over the house. So this also
means that he maybe brought a few of

1621
02:02:27.439 --> 02:02:30.560
the victims home. We're gonna get
into that, Okay, Yeah, because

1622
02:02:30.600 --> 02:02:33.239
yes, I think so, right, because that's whether her or hair would

1623
02:02:33.239 --> 02:02:36.399
be most that I think so.
I could have been in his vehicle,

1624
02:02:36.439 --> 02:02:42.479
could have been on his clothes,
vehicle. I can finally probably find a

1625
02:02:42.520 --> 02:02:45.920
hair on me right now, that's
Katie, So that it's very possible.

1626
02:02:45.600 --> 02:02:49.439
But I do believe he was bringing
him back to the house. Now,

1627
02:02:49.560 --> 02:02:54.000
if you remember from the last episode, a Caucasian male hair was found at

1628
02:02:54.039 --> 02:02:58.119
the bottom of the burlap Megan Waterman
was wrapped in. And I mentioned earlier

1629
02:02:58.199 --> 02:03:02.359
that DNA from Huroman's Peace Crust matched
this here with ninety nine point ninety six

1630
02:03:02.479 --> 02:03:08.600
percent accuracy. And after Rex was
arrested, his DNA was swabbed and that

1631
02:03:08.800 --> 02:03:14.119
DNA result matched the DNA from the
pizza crust. Gotcha, bitch, Yeah,

1632
02:03:14.920 --> 02:03:18.279
that's pretty damning. Okay, so
this this part is messed up.

1633
02:03:19.000 --> 02:03:23.720
So something else authority is able to
figure out. Through a legal process served

1634
02:03:23.760 --> 02:03:29.760
on Google actually, which sought records
and accounts associated with specific Burner phones that

1635
02:03:29.920 --> 02:03:34.359
Rex purchased, it was discovered that
Rex also kept multiple Burner email accounts,

1636
02:03:35.239 --> 02:03:42.520
specifically an account named Thomas Hawk T
Hawk zero eight zero six seven to two

1637
02:03:42.680 --> 02:03:45.640
at gmail dot com. Now,
just so you know, listeners, I

1638
02:03:45.760 --> 02:03:50.760
did my due diligence and I sent
a message to this Thomas Hawk email asking

1639
02:03:50.840 --> 02:03:55.079
for Rex's side of the story.
And I'm still waiting for a reply.

1640
02:03:55.399 --> 02:03:57.680
Right, Yeah, You're gonna be
weighing a lot for that one. But

1641
02:03:57.760 --> 02:04:00.920
I did I swear that. Anyway, It's important to note that when Rex

1642
02:04:00.039 --> 02:04:04.439
was arrested, he had on them
the Burner phone associated with this email address,

1643
02:04:05.079 --> 02:04:12.159
and the address has been definitively linked
to Rex Hureman. When police scoured

1644
02:04:12.199 --> 02:04:16.560
the Thomas Hawk search history, they
discovered that Hawk or Hureman liked to watch

1645
02:04:16.680 --> 02:04:23.600
videos of women being horrifically tortured,
as well as gut wrenching child pornography.

1646
02:04:25.520 --> 02:04:29.800
Now I have a list of some
of the things human search for using this

1647
02:04:29.880 --> 02:04:33.560
email address, which I found in
Rex's bail application. You can find all

1648
02:04:33.600 --> 02:04:38.920
this, and I'm gonna warn you
the shit's pretty rough to hear. Now.

1649
02:04:38.960 --> 02:04:45.000
This sick fuck googled things like pretty
girl with bruised face, porn torture,

1650
02:04:45.079 --> 02:04:48.920
redhead porn, ten year old schoolgirl, short, fat girl, tied

1651
02:04:49.000 --> 02:04:54.479
up porn, tied up in rape
porn, chubby ten year old girl,

1652
02:04:54.600 --> 02:04:59.920
crying the fuck, blonde hair girl, young and depressed teen girl, oiled

1653
02:05:00.079 --> 02:05:04.119
bodies, teen girl begging for rape
porn, hen tie, plump pussy lips,

1654
02:05:04.159 --> 02:05:09.960
cut off porn, Asian twink,
tied up porn, preteen girl with

1655
02:05:10.119 --> 02:05:16.000
makeup, old janitor's gangbang, little
schoolgirl, and crying teen porn. Just

1656
02:05:16.239 --> 02:05:21.159
fucking awful. I really click.
Something in this list that really sticks out,

1657
02:05:21.720 --> 02:05:26.520
or should stick out, is that
search term Asian twink tied up porn.

1658
02:05:27.479 --> 02:05:30.439
Remember in the last episode, right, we told you about that unidentified

1659
02:05:30.479 --> 02:05:33.680
Asian male yep, the outlier.
He was described as petite and he was

1660
02:05:33.760 --> 02:05:38.520
dressed in a woman women's clothes when
found, So he perfectly fits this idea

1661
02:05:38.560 --> 02:05:41.920
of what some would call an Asian
twink. So I don't know, you

1662
02:05:41.960 --> 02:05:44.640
know, this song reminds me of
a This made me think of a of

1663
02:05:44.720 --> 02:05:49.039
a theory as well these Google searches. For one is that I'm sorry we

1664
02:05:49.119 --> 02:05:51.279
forgot them all because there's a few
of them and it's kind of hard to

1665
02:05:51.319 --> 02:05:55.079
heal. He I'm not hard to
hear, but it's hard to swallow.

1666
02:05:56.800 --> 02:05:59.880
Like I feel like I remember writing
I don't know why I wrote this one,

1667
02:06:00.079 --> 02:06:03.479
but I remember writing about the peaches. How that felt like that might

1668
02:06:03.520 --> 02:06:06.239
have been one of his Like,
I feel like he's living out, literally

1669
02:06:06.279 --> 02:06:10.399
a fantasy, which makes sense.
That's what seria killers do, live out

1670
02:06:10.439 --> 02:06:15.760
their fucked out fantasies, or they
try to recreate it. But more importantly

1671
02:06:15.880 --> 02:06:20.199
is that maybe this killer is actually
more of a pedophile than we're giving him

1672
02:06:20.239 --> 02:06:24.920
credit for. I know that's already
worse. This is the worst version of

1673
02:06:25.079 --> 02:06:29.800
what he is now. But because
of his frame, his size, the

1674
02:06:29.960 --> 02:06:34.119
reason he searches for petite one hundred
pounds solk and what kind of girls is

1675
02:06:34.199 --> 02:06:40.960
because to him they would be the
closest or might as well be children for

1676
02:06:41.079 --> 02:06:45.760
him, and that because of his
frame, he can get away with this

1677
02:06:46.119 --> 02:06:49.880
much easier than actually trying to kill
children who are much more taken care of,

1678
02:06:49.920 --> 02:06:54.239
protected by society order to get away
with those kind of kills, and

1679
02:06:54.359 --> 02:06:58.560
that this way is much easier,
he can fake it. Kind of that's

1680
02:06:58.600 --> 02:07:04.640
deep. I thought about that the
last episode, Like it's pretty close to

1681
02:07:04.720 --> 02:07:09.199
the victims. It's much better to
get these kind of victims that are ignored

1682
02:07:09.560 --> 02:07:13.199
but that fit closer to his profile
based on these Google searches. Yeah,

1683
02:07:13.239 --> 02:07:15.920
I mean, think of what Gus
Colletti said, right the right the fourteen

1684
02:07:15.000 --> 02:07:21.000
year fourteen right, That made me
think of that too. Wow. Yeah,

1685
02:07:21.720 --> 02:07:25.920
maybe what if his searches have nothing
to do with necessarily his taste,

1686
02:07:26.279 --> 02:07:28.319
or it does have to do his
taste, but it has to do with

1687
02:07:28.399 --> 02:07:32.640
the fact that he is like he
is finding a facsimile version of what he

1688
02:07:32.760 --> 02:07:36.399
really wants, which is children,
or like, let's just go with tweens.

1689
02:07:36.560 --> 02:07:41.079
Maybe very interesting. That's an interesting
one. I haven't seen that one

1690
02:07:41.159 --> 02:07:45.399
yet. That theory, that's very
interesting. That's what I have. Disgusting,

1691
02:07:45.199 --> 02:07:48.119
it's horrifying, man. Yeah,
it's not good, not good at

1692
02:07:48.159 --> 02:07:50.920
all. Nothing is good, not
good, Bob. In these two episodes

1693
02:07:53.760 --> 02:07:59.920
all right now, in addition to
Rex's disgusting internet searches, he also obsessively

1694
02:08:00.119 --> 02:08:05.439
searched the names Megan Waterman, Amber
Costello, Melissa Barthelemy Marine, Brainerd Barnes,

1695
02:08:07.000 --> 02:08:09.359
John Bittrolf, one of the serial
killers we just talked about. And

1696
02:08:09.560 --> 02:08:15.319
he searched the terms the Long Island
serial killer and why hasn't the Long Island

1697
02:08:15.359 --> 02:08:18.319
serial killer big caught? Among other
things. Can you very quickly tell me

1698
02:08:18.640 --> 02:08:26.439
ask Skinny on John Berthrow Petrol Beetroll
was the one from Manerville who dismembered prostitutes.

1699
02:08:26.600 --> 02:08:30.960
Okay, thank you, no no
problem. This is unbelievable. There's

1700
02:08:31.000 --> 02:08:35.760
even video surveillance footage of Rex in
a cell phone store in midtown Manhattan,

1701
02:08:37.199 --> 02:08:41.840
adding minutes to the burner phone used
to authenticate the Ta hockey melases. You

1702
02:08:41.960 --> 02:08:46.159
just think that everything in mentime is
not at all remotely like surveyed he's like,

1703
02:08:46.800 --> 02:08:50.760
he's like your grandmother, like trying
to get on the Internet and stumble

1704
02:08:50.800 --> 02:08:54.800
around the Internet and shit at it. I could open a folder, look

1705
02:08:54.880 --> 02:08:58.880
what I could do. Yeah,
I'm a hacker. I got burner phones.

1706
02:09:00.000 --> 02:09:03.600
I'm never gonna get caught. Fuck
you. Yeah, yeah, it

1707
02:09:03.600 --> 02:09:05.960
does seem that way. He seems. I mean he's great, thank god,

1708
02:09:07.119 --> 02:09:11.039
because ever he's smart about it.
Right, No, right, So

1709
02:09:11.720 --> 02:09:16.039
let's talk about rex Huerman's connection to
Las Vegas, because if you remember from

1710
02:09:16.039 --> 02:09:22.039
the last episode, we told you
about five murdered sex workers found dumped in

1711
02:09:22.119 --> 02:09:26.319
the desert surrounding Vegas. That would
be Victoria Kamara, found in Boulder City,

1712
02:09:26.920 --> 02:09:31.000
Lindsay Marie Harris, who disappeared from
Henderson, Nevada, and whose legs

1713
02:09:31.000 --> 02:09:35.600
were found in divern in Illinois,
Jody Brewer, whose torso was found wrapped

1714
02:09:35.600 --> 02:09:41.399
in cloth and plastic in the Mohave
Desert, Jessica Foster who's never been found,

1715
02:09:41.960 --> 02:09:45.640
and there was Misty Says whose partial
remains were found wrapped in plastic in

1716
02:09:45.720 --> 02:09:52.720
cloth near the Red Rock Canyon National
Conservation Area. Now coincidentally, rex Huerman

1717
02:09:52.880 --> 02:09:58.039
owned timeshare properties in and around Las
Vegas since two thousand and four, and

1718
02:09:58.159 --> 02:10:01.479
of course, between two thousand and
three and two thousand and six we have

1719
02:10:01.600 --> 02:10:05.920
these five cases of murdered sex workers
being dumped in the desert in areas that

1720
02:10:05.000 --> 02:10:11.840
are actually eerily similar to the remoteness
of Ocean Parkway over on Long Island.

1721
02:10:13.960 --> 02:10:18.159
Now, according to public records,
Hureerman owns a two bedroom timeshare at Club

1722
02:10:18.239 --> 02:10:24.520
Dissolas, located at five four ninety
nine West Tropicana Avenue, about three miles

1723
02:10:24.600 --> 02:10:28.359
west of the Vegas Strip, which
he bought with his wife in two thousand

1724
02:10:28.399 --> 02:10:33.119
and five. Hureman previously owned a
timeshare at two six' five East Harmon

1725
02:10:33.159 --> 02:10:37.039
Avenue, just east of the Vegas
Strip, which he bought in two thousand

1726
02:10:37.039 --> 02:10:41.439
and four and sold in twenty thirteen. Now you tell me, Oscar,

1727
02:10:41.680 --> 02:10:46.119
does the fact that Hureman owned property
in Vegas prove he's the Long Island serial

1728
02:10:46.199 --> 02:10:50.399
killer? No, what it does
is that it makes more sense to look

1729
02:10:50.399 --> 02:10:54.000
into that. It's circumstantial as fuck, right, Yes, just another piece

1730
02:10:54.039 --> 02:10:56.439
of the puzzle that could help hang
this guy. It's this part of the

1731
02:10:56.479 --> 02:11:00.239
thing you mentioned before about them you
mentioned before I think either this episode last

1732
02:11:00.239 --> 02:11:03.880
episode, Sorry about how the police
are looking into DNA about these cases based

1733
02:11:03.920 --> 02:11:07.640
on the guy they just accused,
or they have to see if these the

1734
02:11:07.760 --> 02:11:16.560
DNA matches other murderers, murders in
Vegas specifically. Yes, they're testing also

1735
02:11:16.680 --> 02:11:20.239
testing right, right, right,
right, so we'll see, right that

1736
02:11:20.319 --> 02:11:24.279
could I could bring up a few
maybe that's what, if anything, Maybe

1737
02:11:24.399 --> 02:11:33.199
the longevity of his accusedness whatever it's
called, right might speak into like how

1738
02:11:33.279 --> 02:11:37.800
much should they're gathering, Like Jesus, this guy's popping up everywhere. That

1739
02:11:37.840 --> 02:11:41.119
could be a thing too. I
know it's very recent and the law moves

1740
02:11:41.279 --> 02:11:46.119
very slowly, the wheels of justice
go very slowly. But uh so it

1741
02:11:46.159 --> 02:11:50.159
could be any reason why. But
I'm saying that could that could be one,

1742
02:11:50.600 --> 02:11:54.640
right mm hmm. I don't know. Do you think he did the

1743
02:11:54.720 --> 02:12:01.840
Vegas stuff? Personally? I think
it's I think it's a very real possibility.

1744
02:12:01.920 --> 02:12:05.119
Yeah, he was there. He
was there during the time. I'm

1745
02:12:05.159 --> 02:12:09.680
gonna go. I'm gonna go with
the light. Yes, yeah, did

1746
02:12:09.720 --> 02:12:11.199
you say a light? Yes?
Yes, yeah, I'm gonna go with

1747
02:12:11.239 --> 02:12:15.279
the light, yes, the light. Yes. It's because I'm not convinced.

1748
02:12:15.319 --> 02:12:20.199
And Jessica foster O come because she's
all she yes, is missing.

1749
02:12:20.439 --> 02:12:26.520
And and from what I remember from
the notes I took really so I could

1750
02:12:26.560 --> 02:12:30.039
have gotten wrong, is that I
didn't see any a lot, like a

1751
02:12:30.119 --> 02:12:33.720
lot of history of her prostitute.
She was going to a dentist appointment.

1752
02:12:33.800 --> 02:12:37.680
Yeah, give me see, she
wasn't working, she had money, she

1753
02:12:37.800 --> 02:12:41.760
was going to dentists. You I'm
saying she wasn't working and she had twenty

1754
02:12:41.800 --> 02:12:45.800
five K. There's no body that
the money hasn't moved either, which makes

1755
02:12:45.800 --> 02:12:48.840
sense. I'm saying that the murder
have it because of her. They wanted

1756
02:12:48.920 --> 02:12:52.439
her, but like it doesn't fit
the profile for me. Interesting, So

1757
02:12:52.600 --> 02:12:56.880
I don't think she's a part of
this. I blame more the pamp or

1758
02:12:56.960 --> 02:13:01.880
the friend that got her into the
whatever it was, the Canadian guy or

1759
02:13:01.880 --> 02:13:07.840
whatever, like that was her.
Right, There's so many, Yeah,

1760
02:13:07.840 --> 02:13:11.239
there's so many. I would have
to go back. Like even Lindsay kind

1761
02:13:11.279 --> 02:13:15.439
of gives me a little bit of
things. Also Vegas, Lindsay Apgarta lasting

1762
02:13:15.840 --> 02:13:18.039
she had a rental car, which
makes a little sense if she's traveling.

1763
02:13:18.520 --> 02:13:24.239
There are sex workers that travel to
different cities to spread their wares, have

1764
02:13:24.359 --> 02:13:26.840
something new or part of their vacation
could be a lot of reasons why,

1765
02:13:28.279 --> 02:13:31.520
But I'm not saying I don't think
that's her and she was going to the

1766
02:13:31.600 --> 02:13:35.720
bank. Yeah, that's right,
that's right. Again, that doesn't fit.

1767
02:13:37.079 --> 02:13:41.079
This guy calls them, he searches
for them, calls them. Yeah.

1768
02:13:41.159 --> 02:13:45.680
No, I think a smart serial
killer a smarter serial killer, because

1769
02:13:45.720 --> 02:13:50.000
let's face it, this Rex guy
not that smart, not that smart as

1770
02:13:50.159 --> 02:13:52.920
smart as he thinks he is.
Anyway, he seems like one of those

1771
02:13:52.920 --> 02:13:56.039
guys like he thinks he's smart,
but he's not really. I think that

1772
02:13:56.479 --> 02:14:01.439
a smarter version of this guy would
could call a service, call a call

1773
02:14:01.520 --> 02:14:05.600
girl. Right, I'll call a
sex worker and either meet them or not,

1774
02:14:05.760 --> 02:14:09.279
either cancel or not, but get
enough information about maybe whether at getting

1775
02:14:09.319 --> 02:14:13.760
that phone number through some sort of
texting back and forth, emailing back something

1776
02:14:13.960 --> 02:14:16.920
to get information on them and then
tail them to get them later. That's

1777
02:14:16.960 --> 02:14:20.039
a smarter version of doing this kind
of thing. I'm not saying that this

1778
02:14:20.159 --> 02:14:24.680
guy is doing that with his hack
getting them at the dentists appointment or at

1779
02:14:24.720 --> 02:14:30.880
a bank, But based on every
other murder, not the case doesn't seem

1780
02:14:30.960 --> 02:14:37.039
right to me. You make a
good point, right, Yeah, not

1781
02:14:37.159 --> 02:14:41.520
having the body definitely makes this harder. Yeah right, right, so fuck

1782
02:14:41.560 --> 02:14:43.399
the desert is a big place.
That's a big there's a lot of bodies

1783
02:14:43.439 --> 02:14:46.439
out there. And then you know, her phones haven't been used, her

1784
02:14:46.479 --> 02:14:48.399
credit card he hasn't been used.
The bank account has been touched. Unfortunately,

1785
02:14:48.520 --> 02:14:52.319
it all points so she's gone.
She's dead. But yeah, whether

1786
02:14:52.359 --> 02:14:54.960
it was Rex, I don't know. I'm with like Victoria the artist,

1787
02:14:56.000 --> 02:14:58.399
a seventeen year old that fits for
me. That makes sense to me.

1788
02:14:58.560 --> 02:15:03.920
It could be him, for sure, but not not so much. Even

1789
02:15:03.000 --> 02:15:05.680
Jody is a little weird. Her
cuts, we're clean, Like, how

1790
02:15:05.720 --> 02:15:09.000
do we That's the only one we
know whose tool they use. That's right,

1791
02:15:09.079 --> 02:15:13.640
they said they used a surgical saw. Now yeah yeah, yeah,

1792
02:15:13.640 --> 02:15:16.600
And that to me, that doesn't
sound like the Gilgo guy. That doesn't

1793
02:15:16.640 --> 02:15:18.960
sound like him either, sounds like
someone who lives there and has that with

1794
02:15:20.119 --> 02:15:22.399
him. Who care? Who travels
with that around? Well? You know

1795
02:15:22.439 --> 02:15:26.159
who had a ton of instruments?
Was that Neil Falls guy? That's I

1796
02:15:26.199 --> 02:15:28.760
can see him. I mean you
can say I know nothing about the guy.

1797
02:15:30.000 --> 02:15:33.039
I can see that guy more than
the guy who's we do know about

1798
02:15:33.560 --> 02:15:35.680
Breck specifically. God, I hope
we find out soon. I hope something

1799
02:15:35.720 --> 02:15:41.039
I need to know. Fuck,
I need to know. Yeah, sounds

1800
02:15:41.079 --> 02:15:46.720
like that Mark Anthony song. I
need to know. Could we plug that

1801
02:15:46.800 --> 02:15:48.760
in right here? Yeah? Yeah, I don't know. The next line

1802
02:15:50.520 --> 02:15:54.560
something baby out of needs to I
don't know, he says the uh.

1803
02:15:54.680 --> 02:15:58.279
But here's the thing about so I
have another question? Oh wa, yeah,

1804
02:15:58.319 --> 02:16:01.479
we done? No, we're not. You have more, Julia,

1805
02:16:01.640 --> 02:16:03.960
Okay, go ahead, Sure,
I'm trying to get to the end here,

1806
02:16:05.000 --> 02:16:09.920
I promise. But since all this
stuff about Huroman has been hit in

1807
02:16:09.000 --> 02:16:13.199
the media, people are seeing it
right, and it's been triggering these memories

1808
02:16:13.239 --> 02:16:18.359
of interactions people have had with Rex
or with some of the victims, and

1809
02:16:18.479 --> 02:16:22.560
people are coming forward with some pretty
crazy stories. Now, I've chosen five

1810
02:16:22.920 --> 02:16:28.119
witness stories to share with you that
have come to light recently, and let's

1811
02:16:28.159 --> 02:16:31.920
see. Let's see if you think
this is damning evidence. Now, these

1812
02:16:31.960 --> 02:16:35.920
are five different women that have come
forward who claim to have had strange and

1813
02:16:35.000 --> 02:16:39.559
even frightening interactions with Rex heremen.
One may even lead to another body.

1814
02:16:41.680 --> 02:16:43.399
Two of them are Two of the
women are prostitutes, three or not.

1815
02:16:45.280 --> 02:16:48.680
Two of the women have signed affidavits
swearing their stories are true. Three have

1816
02:16:48.799 --> 02:16:56.159
not yet they may. One of
the women, a prostitute who hasn't submitted

1817
02:16:56.159 --> 02:17:01.000
a sworn affidavit but swears her story
is true, claims that Rex Hueman picked

1818
02:17:01.000 --> 02:17:05.040
her up in his truck in Queen's. He drove her to a park,

1819
02:17:05.479 --> 02:17:09.159
had her perform oral sex on him, after which he pulled the gun and

1820
02:17:09.280 --> 02:17:13.959
said get out of the car or
I'm gonna kill you. The woman panics,

1821
02:17:13.040 --> 02:17:16.719
she gets out of the car,
and Rex says, do exactly what

1822
02:17:16.840 --> 02:17:20.719
I say, or I'll kill you. He then tells the woman she's gonna

1823
02:17:20.719 --> 02:17:24.479
be picked up by another client,
and almost immediately another suv pulls up and

1824
02:17:24.600 --> 02:17:28.639
the woman gets in. All we
really know about this second vehicle is the

1825
02:17:28.760 --> 02:17:33.319
driver is a black guy, and
that when the truck drives away, Rex

1826
02:17:33.479 --> 02:17:39.040
followed them. Now the woman,
our witness senses she's in real danger here.

1827
02:17:39.719 --> 02:17:43.520
And as they're driving to god knows
where, for God knows what second

1828
02:17:43.559 --> 02:17:48.440
location. Second never go to the
second location, you know, and Rex

1829
02:17:48.559 --> 02:17:52.840
is trailing them, our witness,
she sees a cop so she grabs this

1830
02:17:52.920 --> 02:17:56.920
steering wheel and she yanks it to
the side, which causes this truck to

1831
02:17:56.200 --> 02:18:01.639
just suddenly just swerve to a side, which grabs a CoP's attention and the

1832
02:18:01.760 --> 02:18:05.520
scuv gets pulled over. Now,
a cop talks to this new guy,

1833
02:18:05.680 --> 02:18:09.760
the black guy, and to Rex, and he ultimately tells our witness if

1834
02:18:09.840 --> 02:18:13.120
she wants to file a complaint against
these two, she has to go down

1835
02:18:13.159 --> 02:18:16.000
to the police station to do it, and then the cop just drives away.

1836
02:18:16.360 --> 02:18:18.760
We don't know what was said between
the cop and Rex and this other

1837
02:18:18.879 --> 02:18:24.799
driver, but thankfully the woman lived
and she refuses to go on record about

1838
02:18:24.799 --> 02:18:28.639
the incident, but she swears it's
true. Now I find the story compelling

1839
02:18:28.760 --> 02:18:33.399
because there's two people. There's two
guys, Rex and this other driver,

1840
02:18:33.120 --> 02:18:39.719
which begs the question did Rex have
an accomplice? Why did Rex pass this

1841
02:18:39.840 --> 02:18:43.079
woman off to someone else and then
follow them? What did they have planned

1842
02:18:43.120 --> 02:18:48.040
for her? Also, this incident, if it's true, shows that Rex

1843
02:18:48.200 --> 02:18:52.799
used guns to subdue and manipulate his
victims, even though none of the women

1844
02:18:52.840 --> 02:18:56.719
we talked about had gunshot wounds.
This interaction does give us a little more

1845
02:18:56.760 --> 02:19:03.719
insight into how Rex operated, how
he hunted. Is the gun the cabinet

1846
02:19:03.760 --> 02:19:09.079
maker's hammer he referred to in the
interview at Antoinamera, that special tool he

1847
02:19:09.239 --> 02:19:13.200
uses in every job. God knows
he had enough guns, right, right,

1848
02:19:13.360 --> 02:19:16.639
I think right, the fact that
he has like two hundred plus guns

1849
02:19:18.040 --> 02:19:20.600
does this well. Like also,
it feels like it doesn't need it.

1850
02:19:20.200 --> 02:19:24.159
It's a giant fucking duce. But
you're right, the gun is the safest

1851
02:19:24.360 --> 02:19:28.360
way to get something faster as far
as having a victim or hostage or whatever.

1852
02:19:28.799 --> 02:19:31.799
So yes, I completely about it. Again, his gun knowledge or

1853
02:19:31.840 --> 02:19:37.479
his gun collection. I think it's
compelling to see that he might have an

1854
02:19:37.479 --> 02:19:41.840
accomplice because, I mean, we
don't know what he means. If the

1855
02:19:41.959 --> 02:19:46.040
story is true that this guy is
there, it could just be a one

1856
02:19:46.120 --> 02:19:48.600
off. I have no idea,
We have no idea we could go anywhere

1857
02:19:48.639 --> 02:19:50.719
on this, but like it's shady
for sure. And I think at the

1858
02:19:50.760 --> 02:19:58.079
worst case, if he had an
accomplice, it might explain the Torso Torso

1859
02:19:58.200 --> 02:20:01.920
killer behavior going on in the in
places but where he's around, and may

1860
02:20:03.000 --> 02:20:05.479
explain that that's what this guy likes
to do. And like, meanwhile,

1861
02:20:05.520 --> 02:20:09.879
he's like sitting there, like I
like, my girl's facing east five hundred

1862
02:20:09.879 --> 02:20:13.639
pet apart and you like and whole
right, you like, you know,

1863
02:20:13.879 --> 02:20:16.559
fucking heads there and shit like that. Like, fine, just go on

1864
02:20:16.680 --> 02:20:20.559
Ocean View. I'll go here.
I don't know a right. So they

1865
02:20:20.600 --> 02:20:24.520
were together working and that's the worst
case of this case, right, that's

1866
02:20:24.559 --> 02:20:26.520
like, that's like the worst way
this could work. I don't know if

1867
02:20:26.559 --> 02:20:30.200
they flip a coin, like I
get this, I get this girl,

1868
02:20:30.280 --> 02:20:33.600
you get the next one. I
don't know. Wow, you know right

1869
02:20:33.639 --> 02:20:39.000
now, I sound like I'm pitching
a Dexter plot to you, the Showtime

1870
02:20:39.040 --> 02:20:41.520
show Dexter. But that's how ridiculous
it feels, as I'm saying it,

1871
02:20:41.639 --> 02:20:48.280
but stranger than fiction. Man,
this has happened before. Everything happens in

1872
02:20:48.399 --> 02:20:52.120
Murphy's launch it. She's so lucky
though, that thing that was a good

1873
02:20:52.200 --> 02:20:56.440
move. That was a good move. I mean, that's watching movies right

1874
02:20:56.479 --> 02:20:58.920
there. I mean that's right out. Also the fact that the cop just

1875
02:20:58.040 --> 02:21:01.799
laughed and whatever was going on there
that, Like I can't understand why she

1876
02:21:03.040 --> 02:21:07.040
wouldn't want to sign any affid like
like I don't trust she don't trust anybody.

1877
02:21:07.280 --> 02:21:09.399
No, he doesn't matter. It
doesn't matter if it's a piece of

1878
02:21:09.479 --> 02:21:11.639
paper like doesn't mean anything to her. It just means that you'll get in

1879
02:21:11.760 --> 02:21:18.120
the warst shit. Probably I can
understand her like being like completely precarious or

1880
02:21:18.200 --> 02:21:20.239
precautious. I want to be the
law or not the law about this kind

1881
02:21:20.239 --> 02:21:24.000
of thing. You don't trust nobody. She could be terrified not trust I

1882
02:21:24.040 --> 02:21:26.760
can by her not signing AFFIDA,
But it doesn't mean much to me other

1883
02:21:26.760 --> 02:21:28.159
than the fact that she doesn't trust
anyone. Yeah, Or she could be

1884
02:21:28.159 --> 02:21:31.680
at a completely different stage of her
life she doesn't want to be associated with

1885
02:21:31.719 --> 02:21:37.239
that. Oh that's even either.
Yeah, more understanding. So like,

1886
02:21:37.520 --> 02:21:39.760
but what a strange encounter, man, very strange. Again, it could

1887
02:21:39.920 --> 02:21:41.680
just be a oneer. What do
you think is going on with that guy,

1888
02:21:43.399 --> 02:21:46.799
the black guy neither truck? You
know, I really I kind of

1889
02:21:46.920 --> 02:21:50.879
like your theory how they're kind of
sharing women. Right, it's likes it

1890
02:21:50.000 --> 02:21:54.799
one way, this guy likes it
another way. Maybe this context text.

1891
02:21:54.920 --> 02:22:00.520
Yeah, maybe money was exchanged to
Rex. If the guy gave money for

1892
02:22:00.600 --> 02:22:03.959
this prostitute, who knows. But
why did Rex follow him? Then?

1893
02:22:05.840 --> 02:22:09.200
Hard to say. I don't know. Yeah, hop with a disposal,

1894
02:22:09.319 --> 02:22:11.920
I don't know. Help with the
killing, the murder, I don't know.

1895
02:22:13.200 --> 02:22:16.559
Is there a fledgling murder? Is
he like is he his grasshopper?

1896
02:22:16.639 --> 02:22:18.920
Or is he training him is like, what the fuck? Right? Yeah,

1897
02:22:18.280 --> 02:22:20.799
it's just so out of them.
It's just so out there that it's

1898
02:22:20.840 --> 02:22:24.319
hard to grasp what was going on
with me? What are my thoughts on?

1899
02:22:26.879 --> 02:22:30.280
I don't know what they were thinking. I'm kind of hoping that that.

1900
02:22:30.920 --> 02:22:33.520
I mean a lot of killers love
to talk when they're caught. I

1901
02:22:33.639 --> 02:22:37.559
hope this guy loves I hope it
all comes out. So I really hope

1902
02:22:37.600 --> 02:22:39.319
in five years time we had the
full story or something. That'd be kind

1903
02:22:39.319 --> 02:22:43.360
of cool, because it's been quite
it's been pretty quiet. It's quiet,

1904
02:22:43.559 --> 02:22:46.040
yeah, but it's also driving me. It just happened. You're gonna you

1905
02:22:46.159 --> 02:22:48.040
gonna be driven us for a while. I don't know. Have to let

1906
02:22:48.120 --> 02:22:50.719
that go. A couple of little
things are going on. I'll cover that

1907
02:22:50.760 --> 02:22:54.920
at the very way which we're getting
closed. Okay. Now, another sex

1908
02:22:56.000 --> 02:23:00.559
worker came forward, claiming to have
service res over twenty times Wow. She

1909
02:23:00.760 --> 02:23:05.159
described him as a serial user of
prostitutes, sometimes ordering two women at a

1910
02:23:05.239 --> 02:23:09.920
time and offering often ordering women to
his own house while his wife Aesa was

1911
02:23:11.000 --> 02:23:15.520
home. Now. According to this
witness, who has not signed an affidavid

1912
02:23:15.520 --> 02:23:20.479
about the story, she claims that
Asa his wife was well aware of what

1913
02:23:20.680 --> 02:23:24.399
Rex was up to with its prostitutes
because on one occasion, Asa blamed one

1914
02:23:24.440 --> 02:23:30.200
of the prostitutes for stealing a clothing
iron from her house. So if this

1915
02:23:30.360 --> 02:23:33.120
is true, this proves Asa knew
Rex was bringing prostitutes into their home.

1916
02:23:35.639 --> 02:23:39.280
This witness also said that Rex was
always polite and that he treated her very

1917
02:23:39.360 --> 02:23:41.600
well. This is a completely different
Rex than we've heard so far, you

1918
02:23:41.680 --> 02:23:46.079
know, because he'd be the Rex
like well, okay, let's suppose that

1919
02:23:46.639 --> 02:23:52.440
this couple, Asa and Rex are
in an open relationship. She knows about

1920
02:23:52.440 --> 02:23:54.600
it, she's fine with it,
maybe not fine with it, but he's

1921
02:23:54.639 --> 02:23:58.680
living with it. Let's say that
right, because there are many kinds of

1922
02:23:58.680 --> 02:24:01.639
relationships out there at the ethically non
monogamous as a real thing. There's many

1923
02:24:01.680 --> 02:24:05.719
ways to do polyamorous as a real
thing. I'm not saying this is polyamory,

1924
02:24:05.040 --> 02:24:09.040
by the way, but you know
what I'm saying, it's it's it's

1925
02:24:09.200 --> 02:24:15.680
it's in the same ballpark. Let's
say that happens if he treats Maybe he

1926
02:24:15.760 --> 02:24:18.040
behaves differently at the house when she's
around, when she's not on vacation.

1927
02:24:20.159 --> 02:24:24.760
Maybe he's like different about it.
Because again, I don't think she'd be

1928
02:24:24.879 --> 02:24:26.680
I'm not saying that she she should
have. I mean, maybe she should

1929
02:24:26.680 --> 02:24:31.760
have been smarter about realizing what's going
on. Sure, maybe that, But

1930
02:24:31.920 --> 02:24:33.520
like as far as like I don't
see her being a part of this thing,

1931
02:24:35.360 --> 02:24:39.079
I can see him totally like playing
it up. That's an understanding wife,

1932
02:24:39.360 --> 02:24:43.120
that's for sure. If that's the
case. Yeah, holy shit.

1933
02:24:43.760 --> 02:24:46.360
Yeah, But I have another story
here in a few minutes. We'll see

1934
02:24:46.360 --> 02:24:48.719
what you think about ASA after that
one. But I got one more story

1935
02:24:48.719 --> 02:24:52.239
before that one. Okay. Now, this next witness came forward and she

1936
02:24:52.319 --> 02:24:56.840
did sign an affidavit swearing her story
was true, and it's an interesting one.

1937
02:24:58.639 --> 02:25:01.399
Now, this witness isn't a prob. She's actually a banker by day,

1938
02:25:01.920 --> 02:25:05.680
and for extra money, she drives
a cab at night. Now,

1939
02:25:05.760 --> 02:25:09.760
this witness claims that one night in
two thousand and nine, she received a

1940
02:25:09.840 --> 02:25:15.280
call from her dispatcher saying that there
was a woman at the Sayville Motor Lodge

1941
02:25:15.600 --> 02:25:20.239
that needed a ride, but that
the woman's locked in a bathroom in the

1942
02:25:20.280 --> 02:25:24.399
hotel room and she'll only come out
when the cab gets there, pulls up,

1943
02:25:24.520 --> 02:25:28.280
flashes its lights, and honks its
horn a bunch of times. So

1944
02:25:28.360 --> 02:25:31.840
the driver gets to the hotel,
which is in Suffolk County on the south

1945
02:25:31.879 --> 02:25:35.600
shore of Long Island, and she
does the horns and light thing a few

1946
02:25:35.680 --> 02:25:39.399
times. But the woman the fair, she doesn't come outside. Instead,

1947
02:25:39.479 --> 02:25:45.120
a giant man that fits the description
of Rex Hureman came out of the hotel

1948
02:25:45.159 --> 02:25:48.559
with his arms blocking his face so
the cab driver couldn't see him. The

1949
02:25:48.600 --> 02:25:52.159
guy runs thro an suv that's parked
nearby and he peels off. He takes

1950
02:25:52.239 --> 02:25:58.159
off. That's when the woman finally
comes out of the hotel room. She's

1951
02:25:58.239 --> 02:26:03.319
crying, she's shaking, she's obviously
incredibly upset. She gets in the cab

1952
02:26:03.639 --> 02:26:07.879
and our witness the cabby takes the
woman to a train station in run Konkama,

1953
02:26:07.120 --> 02:26:11.280
Long Island so she could get back
to New York City. Now what's

1954
02:26:11.319 --> 02:26:16.559
crazy is that the cab driver,
in a sworn statement, claims that this

1955
02:26:16.719 --> 02:26:22.559
woman was in fact Shannon Gilbert.
During the drive to the train station,

1956
02:26:22.959 --> 02:26:26.399
Shannon, if it really was Shannon, told the cab driver our witness that

1957
02:26:26.559 --> 02:26:31.920
she was lured to the hotel under
this large man's promise to help her and

1958
02:26:31.000 --> 02:26:37.479
her family financially. But she said
the envelope the man gave her that appeared

1959
02:26:37.520 --> 02:26:41.040
to be stuffed with cash when she
opened it was actually stuffed with scrap paper.

1960
02:26:41.959 --> 02:26:46.440
That's when Shannon freaked out and locked
herself in the bathroom. Of course,

1961
02:26:46.559 --> 02:26:48.840
Shannon makes it to the train station
and she gets the hell out of

1962
02:26:48.879 --> 02:26:54.639
town. Now, a little while
later, this same cab driver gets a

1963
02:26:54.719 --> 02:26:58.159
call from her dispatcher saying that there's
a man that needs a ride from a

1964
02:26:58.239 --> 02:27:03.079
bar. The cab driver pulls up
to the location and she sees a huge

1965
02:27:03.159 --> 02:27:07.719
man dressed in camouflage get up and
start lumbering towards the cab. When he

1966
02:27:07.760 --> 02:27:11.840
gets into the back seat, the
witness instantly recognizes this guy as the same

1967
02:27:11.920 --> 02:27:18.440
guy from the hotel where she picked
up Shannon. It's Rex Hureman. Rex

1968
02:27:18.520 --> 02:27:22.920
tries to get the driver to completely
change they agreed upon itinerary, instead insisting

1969
02:27:22.959 --> 02:27:26.600
that she take him on a drive
in some nearby woods. Of course,

1970
02:27:26.639 --> 02:27:31.479
the driver absolutely refuses, and Rex
gets incredibly upset and he says to the

1971
02:27:31.559 --> 02:27:35.959
driver, this is a quote I
already want to kill you. Just give

1972
02:27:35.000 --> 02:27:39.959
me a reason. And then he
pulled a gun. Now, all this

1973
02:27:39.159 --> 02:27:43.200
is happening. The dispatcher's here and
the whole thing. So he gets on

1974
02:27:43.319 --> 02:27:48.239
the radio and he says, we
see you, we hear you, we

1975
02:27:48.399 --> 02:27:52.799
know who you are. And at
this he panics, he freaks out,

1976
02:27:52.840 --> 02:27:56.959
He gets out of the cab,
and the witness speeds away. Now,

1977
02:27:56.000 --> 02:28:01.079
if this is true, if this
really happened, it establishes an action between

1978
02:28:01.159 --> 02:28:05.000
Shannon Gilbert and Rex Huerman. It
doesn't prove that Rex killed her, or

1979
02:28:05.079 --> 02:28:09.360
that Rex was even there the night
she went missing. As far as we

1980
02:28:09.479 --> 02:28:11.959
know, he's never been an official
link. There's never been a link between

1981
02:28:13.040 --> 02:28:16.239
Rex and Oak Beach Association, like
the parties at Joe Brewer's house. This

1982
02:28:16.360 --> 02:28:22.319
could all just be the world's biggest
coincidence, but it is circumstantial. I

1983
02:28:22.360 --> 02:28:24.959
don't believe that. So I have
a big thing on this. You're going

1984
02:28:24.040 --> 02:28:30.399
to wait, do it now?
What's doing now? Okay? So I

1985
02:28:30.639 --> 02:28:35.280
took I guess, very painfully close
because that fucking Nylon one call didn't make

1986
02:28:35.399 --> 02:28:39.639
sense to me. I got to
talk about the nine one one call.

1987
02:28:39.719 --> 02:28:41.280
Well, this goes back to this
is Shannon. This is I was waiting

1988
02:28:41.360 --> 02:28:46.280
for that after day for this reason. I quote I, I you know

1989
02:28:46.600 --> 02:28:54.399
I have a dialogue right here.
Okay she Okay, So it's very strange

1990
02:28:54.200 --> 02:28:58.760
that that Shannon told this cab driver
that this guy was helping me financially.

1991
02:29:00.959 --> 02:29:03.760
Obviously, maybe she doesn't want to
admit it could be easily just sociable cue,

1992
02:29:03.920 --> 02:29:07.680
like she doesn't want to admit,
like I pay for sex and he

1993
02:29:07.719 --> 02:29:09.559
didn't want to pay me. I
don't know if she was hiding that fact

1994
02:29:11.200 --> 02:29:13.520
or if something else was happening.
You know, I mentioned earlier in the

1995
02:29:13.559 --> 02:29:18.479
first episode, how not Shannon necessarily
I might have mentioned over her, but

1996
02:29:18.520 --> 02:29:24.799
I don't think so with other but
with other people that are any one of

1997
02:29:24.840 --> 02:29:30.680
these victims a connection personally to the
killer. Okay, I'm not saying it's

1998
02:29:30.719 --> 02:29:33.959
true. They could all not be. Most likely they're not. But this

1999
02:29:35.360 --> 02:29:39.600
weird affidavid fact that she said that
and that way she makes me feel strange.

2000
02:29:39.719 --> 02:29:43.799
And again I'm not saying because it's
that affidavit, I should immediately believe

2001
02:29:43.799 --> 02:29:46.879
it more. But I do feel
like I believe it more. So I'm

2002
02:29:46.920 --> 02:29:50.040
saying that this versus a cab driver, not normal citizen, quote unquote normal

2003
02:29:50.120 --> 02:29:54.120
citizen. I'm not doing anything legal, is what I'm trying to say,

2004
02:29:54.600 --> 02:29:58.840
not shown by society. I like
that more. You know what I'm saying.

2005
02:30:00.520 --> 02:30:03.920
It's two women, Yeah, taking
a long drive. One's incredibly upset.

2006
02:30:03.959 --> 02:30:07.200
They strike up a conversation. I
think it's natural. Also pretty smart.

2007
02:30:07.399 --> 02:30:09.239
What are you crying about, honey? I mean, I wouldn't trust

2008
02:30:09.239 --> 02:30:11.719
the bathroom with that frame. But
yeah, I guess he couldn't take it

2009
02:30:11.760 --> 02:30:15.159
down. Maybe I don't know how
hard he tried. I'd like it.

2010
02:30:15.319 --> 02:30:18.159
She's very smart. Just went in
there. Immediately, call the thing.

2011
02:30:18.479 --> 02:30:20.639
Make sure you make the noise,
make the honk, the lights. There's

2012
02:30:20.680 --> 02:30:24.479
witnesses. Yes, I like it
a lot. I like that a lot.

2013
02:30:26.200 --> 02:30:28.840
And then I want to call Yeah. I wrote a few things in

2014
02:30:28.920 --> 02:30:31.559
quote. So listeners, you got
to go back again and listen to that

2015
02:30:31.639 --> 02:30:33.799
first episode because we play this what
Oscars talking about here? We played for

2016
02:30:33.840 --> 02:30:37.719
you. Yes, so peace,
go back. It's all on the clip

2017
02:30:37.879 --> 02:30:39.479
that we showed. I did listen
to the whole thing. But this is

2018
02:30:39.719 --> 02:30:43.159
where the real meat and potatoes are. Anyway, what we showed on the

2019
02:30:43.200 --> 02:30:46.239
show, that makes no sense.
It's what I'm talking about here. Quote.

2020
02:30:46.319 --> 02:30:50.280
This is in the order that she
said it to quote. Why do

2021
02:30:50.360 --> 02:30:52.920
you call me by my name?
Oh yeah, why did she say that?

2022
02:30:54.159 --> 02:30:56.360
I know, I know, I
know, trust me, they don't

2023
02:30:56.399 --> 02:31:01.520
tell anyone that real nice don't tell
you know, they don't tell anyone their

2024
02:31:01.559 --> 02:31:05.200
real names unless we unless we just
don't hear Michael Pack saying come on,

2025
02:31:05.319 --> 02:31:07.079
Shannon, let's go, and she's
like, why are you using my name

2026
02:31:07.559 --> 02:31:09.879
in front of Joe Brewer? It
could be that, right, I did

2027
02:31:11.000 --> 02:31:11.719
think of that too, but you're
right. I was going to go,

2028
02:31:11.920 --> 02:31:15.040
why you call my name? Well? And then doesn't she follow it up

2029
02:31:15.079 --> 02:31:16.120
with like you've been involved the whole
time, you've been part of it.

2030
02:31:16.200 --> 02:31:20.319
I might get there. Oh,
I'm getting there. Yes, So actually

2031
02:31:20.360 --> 02:31:22.280
that reminds me of a question that
she just said before. I should have

2032
02:31:22.280 --> 02:31:26.639
asked before this. Is it verifiable
that the other two voices are only Pack

2033
02:31:26.760 --> 02:31:31.040
and Brewer? I mean, that's
what's in every report, is that that's

2034
02:31:31.079 --> 02:31:33.680
who you hear in the background,
and that it's not like we know if

2035
02:31:33.719 --> 02:31:35.440
they know, like, we don't
know how they know that, right,

2036
02:31:37.920 --> 02:31:39.840
I'm trying to remember where I read
it. Does police force have no fucking

2037
02:31:39.879 --> 02:31:43.120
clue if they just bought that and
they're like, we're just want it done.

2038
02:31:43.879 --> 02:31:46.760
Yeah, it wasn't in a court
document or anything like pretty much.

2039
02:31:46.799 --> 02:31:48.200
Because you know, when I take
facts for stories, I try to cross

2040
02:31:48.280 --> 02:31:50.520
reference those fas I know you do
three times. I know you do.

2041
02:31:50.719 --> 02:31:54.799
So if it's repeated three times,
I take it as pretty factual, pretty

2042
02:31:54.840 --> 02:31:56.840
factual. And that's what That's what
a lot of the stories say, is

2043
02:31:56.879 --> 02:32:00.680
that. That's who you hear in
the background. One you could tell is

2044
02:32:00.760 --> 02:32:05.600
Michael Pack because he has an Asian
accent. You can tell. I mean,

2045
02:32:05.680 --> 02:32:07.680
I couldn't really tell. It was
hard to hear some of that to

2046
02:32:07.799 --> 02:32:11.600
really listen to it. But you're
right, you can't tell. And some

2047
02:32:11.680 --> 02:32:15.639
of them I'm sure I hear.
And let's go upstairs from one of the

2048
02:32:15.719 --> 02:32:18.399
men. Is it upstairs or downstairs? I heard upstairs. It could be

2049
02:32:18.440 --> 02:32:20.879
downstairs. It's hard to hear.
Yeah, I heard upstairs. I could

2050
02:32:20.920 --> 02:32:24.319
be wrong, but no, you
might be right now that I'm thinking about

2051
02:32:24.360 --> 02:32:28.000
it, and it's in the midst
of her like being freaked out, obviously

2052
02:32:28.000 --> 02:32:33.120
she's calling now on one. I'm
hearing this, so like, is it

2053
02:32:33.239 --> 02:32:37.239
trying to like if it's Brewer trying
to stablish his night. If it's not

2054
02:32:37.399 --> 02:32:41.200
Brewer, let's say, I initially
thought it might be Burke. I'm way

2055
02:32:41.280 --> 02:32:46.920
less thinking that based on this Affidavid
is it racks trying to separate her from

2056
02:32:46.959 --> 02:32:52.399
the other people. She knows what
that means, right anyway going on?

2057
02:32:52.559 --> 02:32:54.239
Did I just get the fucking goosey? I hope so? And then she

2058
02:32:54.319 --> 02:32:56.159
asked, what are you gonna do
to me? What are you gonna do

2059
02:32:56.239 --> 02:33:00.959
to me? Are you gonna kill
me? I hear that here and then

2060
02:33:01.200 --> 02:33:05.680
from him, I'm thinking it's him
now began because of Rex. Let's go

2061
02:33:05.799 --> 02:33:07.319
back to Manhattan. Yeah, let's
go back to and the way he said,

2062
02:33:07.440 --> 02:33:13.479
let's go back to honest, got
that's how he says it. No,

2063
02:33:13.559 --> 02:33:16.079
I believe he's just like, we'll
also make it one of the way.

2064
02:33:16.079 --> 02:33:18.520
He says this, but something about
near water. He says, we're

2065
02:33:18.559 --> 02:33:22.719
not near water, or we're almost
near We're on Long Island, we're near

2066
02:33:22.799 --> 02:33:26.200
the ocean. Yeah, it's it's
I think that's Michael Pack, Her driver

2067
02:33:26.360 --> 02:33:28.600
said, because she's like, where
am I I don't know where I'm at?

2068
02:33:28.799 --> 02:33:31.399
Yeah, you're you're in You're on
Long Island, near the ocean,

2069
02:33:33.040 --> 02:33:37.239
near the water or something like that. Why that's the show? She's way

2070
02:33:37.280 --> 02:33:39.840
out of her mind at that point. I don't know. And then she

2071
02:33:39.000 --> 02:33:43.079
says, you're being sarcastic about this. You were a part of this all

2072
02:33:43.120 --> 02:33:45.959
along, there you go. That's
a big one. That's my favorite one.

2073
02:33:46.040 --> 02:33:48.239
Not a favorite one. It's terrible, but that's a big one.

2074
02:33:48.079 --> 02:33:52.719
Is Pack a part of this?
I'm getting I'm getting body goosebumps everywhere.

2075
02:33:52.799 --> 02:33:58.479
I'm thinking Pack was a part of
this. I'm thinking that maybe Rex bided

2076
02:33:58.559 --> 02:34:03.639
his time with this victim that got
away found the way in Now. I

2077
02:34:03.799 --> 02:34:07.920
was thinking initially that it might have
been through the Brewer, and I could

2078
02:34:07.920 --> 02:34:15.360
still be right, But now I'm
thinking it's Pack. Okay, So there's

2079
02:34:15.559 --> 02:34:20.600
a little pattern, right with Rex
hunting down the taxi driver, yes it

2080
02:34:20.639 --> 02:34:24.799
got away. I mean that's him
hunting down the one that got away,

2081
02:34:24.920 --> 02:34:28.319
trying to to yes, try to
tie up loose ends. So you got

2082
02:34:28.399 --> 02:34:37.000
to listen to the interview with him
and antoinamera because you hear his voice for

2083
02:34:37.280 --> 02:34:43.360
twenty five minutes. You hear Rex's
voice. Now that I'm thinking about,

2084
02:34:43.879 --> 02:34:46.879
oh did I just hit the mic? Now that I'm thinking about it,

2085
02:34:48.280 --> 02:34:56.079
it could sound like Rex's voice in
that nine one one call based on watching

2086
02:34:56.159 --> 02:35:01.120
that video of the interview with Antoinamera. That's oh man, Yeah, I'm

2087
02:35:01.120 --> 02:35:05.799
freaked out. Hope. So because
I feel like this solidifies more of a

2088
02:35:05.840 --> 02:35:09.680
resting and now I maybe have to
take back my original statement, my original

2089
02:35:09.799 --> 02:35:13.719
theory that Shannon was the one off
in this case, the coincidence that brought

2090
02:35:13.760 --> 02:35:20.280
on all these other cases. So
maybe she really was a part of it.

2091
02:35:20.079 --> 02:35:24.879
Maybe he even killed her close to
his dropping his his hunting grounds to

2092
02:35:24.959 --> 02:35:31.879
make it easier. Even I call
her the here to go gole beach to

2093
02:35:31.040 --> 02:35:35.840
do it, you know, hmmm, a faster, more streamlined. I

2094
02:35:35.879 --> 02:35:41.440
don't know. And she was just
too spry to she didn't know it was

2095
02:35:41.479 --> 02:35:45.159
a different it was a different client. Yeah, and she got freaked out.

2096
02:35:45.280 --> 02:35:48.799
I mean she screamed it. She
saw him walking down the block towards

2097
02:35:50.040 --> 02:35:54.680
Colletti's house. She fucking screamed,
Yeah, because after her, she doesn't

2098
02:35:54.719 --> 02:36:01.319
want to be alone. That's what
he wants alone with her. That's where

2099
02:36:01.319 --> 02:36:05.760
the scream happens is at Colon's house, at his front door. I can

2100
02:36:05.799 --> 02:36:09.120
see you're trying to get in the
door, trying to call the COS and

2101
02:36:09.360 --> 02:36:11.520
she sees her like, yeah,
big ass fucking frame. Are you kidding

2102
02:36:11.600 --> 02:36:18.319
me? And knowing that she narrowly
escaped once in the hotel room, Dude,

2103
02:36:22.399 --> 02:36:26.559
I need a drinkin. I'm telling
you that gave me complete body goosebumps.

2104
02:36:26.600 --> 02:36:33.760
Man. Yeah, and that I
really wanted to mention that because it

2105
02:36:33.879 --> 02:36:35.719
just seems like he's tying loose hands. He let the he let the cat

2106
02:36:35.840 --> 02:36:39.600
go. He was scared. That
dispatch was smart. It's a few smart

2107
02:36:39.639 --> 02:36:43.959
moments in this whole thing. Yeah, you have very good there's no camera

2108
02:36:43.000 --> 02:36:46.319
in there. Obviously he's bullshitting.
He could hear, but he can't see.

2109
02:36:46.959 --> 02:36:52.719
And I guess based on his reply
he knew Rex's name. But yeah,

2110
02:36:52.799 --> 02:36:56.159
Rex fell for it knows he's not
as smart as you think. He

2111
02:36:56.200 --> 02:37:01.159
says, thank god he got caught
because he's not as he thinks he is.

2112
02:37:01.399 --> 02:37:05.239
But still, I'm telling you,
man, I feel like he did

2113
02:37:05.319 --> 02:37:09.000
Shannon. Damn. I hope we
find soon. I hope we find out

2114
02:37:09.079 --> 02:37:11.680
soon. Yeah, you know,
they said they got mountains of evidence from

2115
02:37:11.719 --> 02:37:16.239
his house. Let's hope. Yeah, part of it solve Shannon's I mean

2116
02:37:16.239 --> 02:37:20.239
that one seems like a quick job, for sure, quick job, we

2117
02:37:20.360 --> 02:37:22.520
know because of how she was held
yeah, compared to the others, but

2118
02:37:24.479 --> 02:37:28.360
it could just be that this story. Man. Yeah, anyway, what's

2119
02:37:28.399 --> 02:37:31.280
the other one? We have more? I know, yeah, I got

2120
02:37:31.319 --> 02:37:35.239
two more. So this next witness
came forward with a swarnffidavit, but she

2121
02:37:35.360 --> 02:37:39.200
wasn't a prostitute. Instead, she
was a swinger back in the nineties.

2122
02:37:41.360 --> 02:37:43.840
At the time, our witness,
she was dating a New York cop and

2123
02:37:43.959 --> 02:37:48.639
they would go to swingers clubs together. Nothing wrong with that. Now,

2124
02:37:48.719 --> 02:37:52.680
in nineteen ninety six, when the
couple were visiting a popular swingers club called

2125
02:37:52.799 --> 02:37:58.719
Latrepez in Midtown Manhattan, the couple
found an advertisement in this bar, in

2126
02:37:58.799 --> 02:38:05.600
this swingers club for a house in
Massapequa Park hosting swinger parties. Yes,

2127
02:38:05.840 --> 02:38:11.360
so the two, the cop and
this girlfriend, they decided to go to

2128
02:38:11.479 --> 02:38:15.399
the home in mass Pekle Park for
some fun, but not before picking up

2129
02:38:15.440 --> 02:38:18.879
another woman, a prostitute who had
just gotten out of jail. Now,

2130
02:38:18.879 --> 02:38:22.600
according to witness our witness, the
prostitute, she was in a bad way.

2131
02:38:24.200 --> 02:38:26.840
She was disheveled, messy looking,
she was hungry, she was really

2132
02:38:26.959 --> 02:38:31.520
banged up, and she was very
reluctant about going to this house. But

2133
02:38:31.639 --> 02:38:35.639
when she found out that the band
she was with was a New York City

2134
02:38:35.680 --> 02:38:41.159
cop. She relented and went along. Now, supposedly, according to this

2135
02:38:41.280 --> 02:38:45.440
witness, the house they went to
belonged to Rex Huerman and Rex's wife,

2136
02:38:45.719 --> 02:38:50.479
Asa was there that in fact,
Rex and Asa were swingers. Again,

2137
02:38:50.760 --> 02:38:54.719
at the surface, there's nothing wrong
with this, but it does shed a

2138
02:38:54.760 --> 02:39:00.760
slightly different light on Asa. The
witness claims Rex and this cop had sex

2139
02:39:00.920 --> 02:39:05.760
together, and the CoP's girlfriend,
the witness, also had sex with Rex.

2140
02:39:07.000 --> 02:39:09.440
Asa, on the other hand,
she was supposed to have sex with

2141
02:39:09.559 --> 02:39:13.799
the witness, But our witness is
black. She didn't know that originally,

2142
02:39:13.920 --> 02:39:18.399
and apparently Asa doesn't get down like
that. Okay. Now, Ultimately,

2143
02:39:18.479 --> 02:39:22.000
the cop and his girlfriend leave the
hero men's house and they leave the prostitute

2144
02:39:22.040 --> 02:39:26.440
behind. That disheveled woman they picked
up, Yeah yeah. When our witness

2145
02:39:26.520 --> 02:39:31.600
asks the cop her boyfriend what gives
while they're leaving this woman behind, he

2146
02:39:31.719 --> 02:39:33.760
answers that we're just playing a game. Everything's fine, don't worry about it.

2147
02:39:35.680 --> 02:39:39.000
And before they can pull away,
this woman comes running out of Rex's

2148
02:39:39.040 --> 02:39:45.639
house, buck naked and screaming,
But again the cop assures the witness are

2149
02:39:45.799 --> 02:39:48.079
his girlfriend, Hey, everything's fine. They're just playing a game. They

2150
02:39:48.159 --> 02:39:52.079
do this all the time. It's
not until much later, when the witness

2151
02:39:52.120 --> 02:39:56.879
sees a photo of Karen Vergatta on
the news, the sex worker whose partial

2152
02:39:56.920 --> 02:40:01.840
remains were found on Fire Island,
that our witness realizes Virgatta was the prostitute

2153
02:40:01.879 --> 02:40:05.879
they picked up and brought to Huerman's
house, the one who was just playing

2154
02:40:05.920 --> 02:40:09.639
a game with Rex and his wife. In case you don't remember from the

2155
02:40:09.719 --> 02:40:13.959
last episode, Karen Vergatta, she's
the one that disappeared on Valentine's Day nineteen

2156
02:40:15.040 --> 02:40:18.040
ninety six. Two months later,
her feet and legs were found on Fire

2157
02:40:18.120 --> 02:40:22.319
Island, and five years after that, her skull was found off Ocean Parkway

2158
02:40:22.719 --> 02:40:28.920
near Peach's remains. Now, if
this story is true, that puts Karen

2159
02:40:28.000 --> 02:40:33.440
Vigatta with Hueman and his wife inside
his home, and it also makes Asa

2160
02:40:33.520 --> 02:40:39.479
out to be much more involved in
Rex's doings than we know. Remember when

2161
02:40:39.600 --> 02:40:43.520
her hair was found on a few
of the gig four victims, kind of

2162
02:40:43.559 --> 02:40:45.559
makes you wonder, does was it
a few? I thought that it was

2163
02:40:45.600 --> 02:40:48.760
just one. Did I mistake that? I believe one of the victims had

2164
02:40:48.799 --> 02:40:54.399
two hairs on her? Okay,
good strange. If that's true, that's

2165
02:40:54.479 --> 02:40:56.239
fucking huge, man, that's very
strange. Also, like I'm curious as

2166
02:40:56.280 --> 02:41:01.760
too. She divorced that cop,
right, so they weren't dating, okay,

2167
02:41:01.840 --> 02:41:05.440
and the CoP's never been named John
Ray, the lawyer for Shannon Gilbert's

2168
02:41:05.440 --> 02:41:11.200
family, he knows who this cop
is, won't release the name. But

2169
02:41:11.280 --> 02:41:16.879
they were just dating at first.
I was thinking, I was thinking Burke,

2170
02:41:16.479 --> 02:41:18.879
Yeah, Burke was he was self
accounting. He wasn't New York City

2171
02:41:20.000 --> 02:41:22.760
right right, But they're a skip
or a hop away. But like still

2172
02:41:22.840 --> 02:41:26.239
doesn't mean yeah, it doesn't mean
that, yeah it was. I don't

2173
02:41:26.239 --> 02:41:30.399
think it was Burke. But what
a crazy what a crazy story that one

2174
02:41:30.520 --> 02:41:31.879
is man to think of that?
I mean do I mean? I mean

2175
02:41:31.920 --> 02:41:37.200
it seems like that story is it
not designed? If it's real, which

2176
02:41:37.280 --> 02:41:41.239
sounds real, I mean that sounds
real, but it's more weights added to

2177
02:41:41.319 --> 02:41:43.600
its reality because of its signed that
for David of course. Besides that,

2178
02:41:45.000 --> 02:41:48.440
that's I think it is not designed, but it sounds like it's designed to

2179
02:41:48.600 --> 02:41:54.239
implicate Asa, do you think,
yeah, to definitely, I mean,

2180
02:41:54.280 --> 02:41:58.600
it connects Racks to this horror,
this thing, but like he's already a

2181
02:41:58.600 --> 02:42:01.840
connect it so like. But I
think what it also does is that it

2182
02:42:01.959 --> 02:42:05.920
may be implicat say so, at
least in the public's view and the public

2183
02:42:07.879 --> 02:42:11.559
not actually it's circumstantial, but in
the law. But to the public it

2184
02:42:11.920 --> 02:42:15.639
does, Yeah, because it does
to me right, you know, makes

2185
02:42:15.680 --> 02:42:18.280
her look a lot more shady.
Yeah, not this innocent housewife who is

2186
02:42:18.440 --> 02:42:24.200
you know, either completely ignorant or
under the thumb of human and couldn't say

2187
02:42:24.239 --> 02:42:28.120
anything but new Yeah, it definitely
makes you see more involved. What do

2188
02:42:28.200 --> 02:42:31.680
you think about this cop saying like, oh, it's the game or whatever

2189
02:42:31.760 --> 02:42:33.719
the fuck? Obviously he's involved.
He knows what's going to happen. He

2190
02:42:33.840 --> 02:42:39.159
brought her there, I pick her
up. He brought her there. Do

2191
02:42:39.319 --> 02:42:43.000
we know the ethnicity of this cop? Nope? Because could he be the

2192
02:42:43.079 --> 02:42:46.159
other guy in the truck? Never
said Yeah, I don't know. I'm

2193
02:42:46.159 --> 02:42:50.079
saying from that earlier incident, which
is maybe why the other cop let him

2194
02:42:50.079 --> 02:42:52.799
go. Yeah, because he's a
cop himself. I don't know. I'm

2195
02:42:52.840 --> 02:42:56.879
just saying, is this more con
is as connected as it feels like or

2196
02:42:58.000 --> 02:43:01.159
not? Man, with this story, it wouldn't be surprised surprising if it

2197
02:43:01.239 --> 02:43:05.479
was connected like that is there like
a mafia for circulars. Oh dude,

2198
02:43:07.120 --> 02:43:11.559
that's a cool story movie idea,
right, that's a movie idea. Yeah,

2199
02:43:11.760 --> 02:43:13.159
wild, isn't it. That's a
I mean, how do you make

2200
02:43:13.200 --> 02:43:20.959
money of circuling? You can't?
All right Now, this final witness is

2201
02:43:20.000 --> 02:43:24.399
something I found out about very recently. I had to script it in here

2202
02:43:24.440 --> 02:43:26.440
at the last minute, and it
has to do with another sex worker that

2203
02:43:26.559 --> 02:43:31.799
disappeared where Rex owned some property.
Now this property, it's four lots of

2204
02:43:31.920 --> 02:43:37.319
land located in a wooded area in
Chester County, South Carolina, less than

2205
02:43:37.360 --> 02:43:43.120
two hours from the Red Bay Road
area in Sumter, South Carolina. Or

2206
02:43:43.159 --> 02:43:48.000
a thirty six year old mother of
three named Julia Ann Bean disappeared on May

2207
02:43:48.079 --> 02:43:52.840
thirty first, twenty seventeen. Now, since the year two thousand, Rex's

2208
02:43:52.920 --> 02:43:58.680
younger brother, Craig Huerman, has
lived just down the street from Rex's property,

2209
02:43:58.159 --> 02:44:01.840
and Rex has visited with his brother
many times over the years, so

2210
02:44:01.959 --> 02:44:09.280
he's definitely been in the area Rex
has now According to Julia Bean's daughter Cameron

2211
02:44:09.760 --> 02:44:13.000
or Caim. On the day Julia
disappeared, she and her mom were meeting

2212
02:44:13.079 --> 02:44:18.559
up at a nail salon to get
manicures because Cam's high school graduation was the

2213
02:44:18.680 --> 02:44:22.360
very next day. Now, according
to Cam, Julia pulled up to the

2214
02:44:22.440 --> 02:44:28.239
salon in a dark colored truck driven
by some unknown man. The man chatted

2215
02:44:28.280 --> 02:44:31.799
with Cam for a bit and he
told her he owned big boats and lake

2216
02:44:31.840 --> 02:44:35.879
properties, and he offered to take
Cam to concerts, and he said he

2217
02:44:35.959 --> 02:44:41.159
wanted to marry her mother, Julia, and that was it. After this

2218
02:44:41.280 --> 02:44:45.440
interaction at the nail salon, Julia
Bean was never seen or heard from again.

2219
02:44:46.639 --> 02:44:50.280
It was discovered at Julia's house that
she left behind her wallet, cell

2220
02:44:50.319 --> 02:44:54.159
phone, and keys, as well
as her purse with cash inside. Now,

2221
02:44:54.200 --> 02:44:58.440
at the time of the disappearance,
Julia was addicted to drugs and she

2222
02:44:58.600 --> 02:45:03.879
had turned to prostitution to support her
habit. And again she's never been found.

2223
02:45:03.520 --> 02:45:05.840
Now, I left the picture of
Julia Bean in the show notes.

2224
02:45:05.879 --> 02:45:11.680
But she was attractive, brown hair, blue green eyes. She stood five

2225
02:45:11.639 --> 02:45:16.280
five feet six inches tall, weighed
one hundred and ten to one hundred and

2226
02:45:16.280 --> 02:45:20.440
twenty pounds. And then if that
isn't the perfect Long Island serial killer victim,

2227
02:45:20.639 --> 02:45:24.479
right, yep, I don't know
what is now. It wasn't until

2228
02:45:24.559 --> 02:45:28.760
Rex was arrested and his face plastered
all over the media that the daughter Cam

2229
02:45:28.840 --> 02:45:31.520
put two and two together and realized, holy shit, that man driving the

2230
02:45:31.600 --> 02:45:39.000
dark colored truck was Rex Hureman.
And authorities are investigating Cam's claims seriously.

2231
02:45:39.799 --> 02:45:43.680
But again, Rex hasn't been charged
with Julia's murder and he is not even

2232
02:45:43.719 --> 02:45:46.399
a suspect as far as I know. But if he could be convicted on

2233
02:45:46.520 --> 02:45:52.959
circumstantial evidence, he'd be fucked.
I mean how fucked, But a lot

2234
02:45:52.040 --> 02:45:56.040
more would be too. That's crazy. That's a new one. I definitely

2235
02:45:56.040 --> 02:46:03.280
wasn't just recording. Yeah, that
is that's so. And finally, here's

2236
02:46:03.360 --> 02:46:07.360
one last thing that points to Huerman. If you remember from the last episode,

2237
02:46:07.399 --> 02:46:11.559
when we discussed the discovery of Marine
Brainerd's Barnes body, Marie Brainer's Barnes

2238
02:46:11.600 --> 02:46:15.959
body at Gilgo Beach, we said
that she had been bound by three belts,

2239
02:46:16.639 --> 02:46:18.920
and one of those belts was a
very unique one because it had the

2240
02:46:20.120 --> 02:46:24.799
initials w H or HM stamped into
it. Remember, depending on how you

2241
02:46:24.879 --> 02:46:30.399
held the belt WHHM. As it
turns out, Rex Huerman's grandfather was named

2242
02:46:30.479 --> 02:46:37.559
William William Huerman w H. Now, listeners, that's really all I got

2243
02:46:37.639 --> 02:46:41.200
for you. On the Long Island
serial killer. There's really been no developments

2244
02:46:41.280 --> 02:46:46.879
hitting the media since maybe early August
or so. I did read that Commissioner

2245
02:46:46.000 --> 02:46:50.399
Rodney Harrison, the guy who assembled
the task force that finally caught Huerman,

2246
02:46:50.959 --> 02:46:56.879
he's stepping down from his position sometime
this December to spend time with his family.

2247
02:46:56.719 --> 02:47:00.600
Whether this is the real reason,
or there's some power it takes behind

2248
02:47:00.639 --> 02:47:05.159
it, I don't know. But
he's leaving the Suffolk County Police now.

2249
02:47:05.280 --> 02:47:09.959
Finally, finally, finally, I'll
leave you with this our old friend,

2250
02:47:09.280 --> 02:47:15.600
the disgraced Suffolk County Police Chief,
James Burke. He was arrested in a

2251
02:47:15.680 --> 02:47:20.440
sex solicit solicitation sting on August twenty
second, twenty twenty three, so,

2252
02:47:20.559 --> 02:47:26.000
I mean just recently at Suffolk County
Vietnam Veterans Memorial Park. Burke was accused

2253
02:47:26.040 --> 02:47:33.000
of soliciting a male prostitute and exposing
himself. But the male prostitute was actually

2254
02:47:33.040 --> 02:47:37.520
an undercover park ranger. Now,
according to the report, Burke pulled out

2255
02:47:37.559 --> 02:47:41.559
his pants, pulled his dick out, and began to masturbate while telling this

2256
02:47:41.639 --> 02:47:46.319
park ranger that he likes quote sucking
dick. Burke was charged with public lewdness

2257
02:47:46.639 --> 02:47:52.079
in decent exposure, criminal solicitation,
and offering a sex act. Now,

2258
02:47:52.159 --> 02:47:56.680
for whatever reason, the charges of
criminal solicitation and offering a sect act sex

2259
02:47:56.719 --> 02:48:01.959
act were dropped, and of course
the puke pled not guilty to the public

2260
02:48:03.040 --> 02:48:07.120
lewdness and indecent exposure charges. He
was due back in court on October sixth,

2261
02:48:07.319 --> 02:48:13.920
but I've not seen anything, so
it's likely been postponed. And just

2262
02:48:13.079 --> 02:48:18.719
today, as we're recording this,
I read that Asa ellerup Rex's wife has

2263
02:48:18.760 --> 02:48:24.879
struck a deal with production companies to
put out like a docuseries on for Peacock

2264
02:48:26.799 --> 02:48:31.159
and fifty cents. Production company g
unit is involved Peacock. I just cancel

2265
02:48:31.280 --> 02:48:35.760
that it's gonna be coming out of
Peacock. I'll give you my login going.

2266
02:48:35.959 --> 02:48:39.920
I got so And a lot of
people are fucking pissed about this because

2267
02:48:39.520 --> 02:48:43.879
rumors say she got a million bucks
to tell her story. You said,

2268
02:48:43.920 --> 02:48:46.360
yeah, you're selling your life,
life story, yeah, yeah, and

2269
02:48:46.559 --> 02:48:50.399
others reports, other stories I read
say that she's getting much much less.

2270
02:48:52.040 --> 02:48:58.879
All she's selling is the rights to
like the name, personal stuff, photographs,

2271
02:49:01.600 --> 02:49:03.680
just personal items. She's selling the
rights to that stuff so they could

2272
02:49:03.760 --> 02:49:07.840
use it. That's it, that
this is gonna go without a hitch.

2273
02:49:09.079 --> 02:49:11.920
I mean the guy hasn't been properly
charged. No, I mean I'm saying

2274
02:49:13.040 --> 02:49:18.079
likely wait for the fucking story to
finish. Yeah, you got for bad

2275
02:49:18.200 --> 02:49:22.319
Jesus. But you know, and
then that business though, being versus quality,

2276
02:49:22.360 --> 02:49:24.639
right, Yeah, and they don't
care. They don't care. They

2277
02:49:24.639 --> 02:49:26.319
would be first, right, they
would be first, and they don't give

2278
02:49:26.319 --> 02:49:30.559
a shit about anything else. Yeah, that's all we really know. She's

2279
02:49:30.639 --> 02:49:33.000
suing the stuff Acounty police wants to
get those guns because all the guns were

2280
02:49:33.000 --> 02:49:37.440
confiscated. They say there's a few
hundred thousand dollars worth of guns. So

2281
02:49:37.600 --> 02:49:41.639
she wants that because she needs the
money. Apparently the police guys, there's

2282
02:49:41.680 --> 02:49:46.879
no no passing down his money to
her. What's that called, sorry,

2283
02:49:48.440 --> 02:49:50.719
inheritance, inheritance or something. No, I'm assuming all his money that he

2284
02:49:50.840 --> 02:49:54.600
has if it's great to court and
right, yeah, I got it,

2285
02:49:54.719 --> 02:49:58.319
got it and anything. I'm sure
their assets are seized any money. He

2286
02:49:58.360 --> 02:50:01.680
does have his seat at this point. So, uh, you know,

2287
02:50:01.719 --> 02:50:07.200
apparently the police completely fucking destroyed their
house while they were looking forward so that

2288
02:50:07.319 --> 02:50:09.920
they got nothing. So you know, there was GoFundMe set up for Asa

2289
02:50:11.000 --> 02:50:15.760
and her kids. Now she's got
you know, she's selling the rights to

2290
02:50:15.920 --> 02:50:18.239
her story, and she wants to
sell all the guns. And I think

2291
02:50:18.319 --> 02:50:22.319
the guns are going to go back
to her because she needs money. They

2292
02:50:22.360 --> 02:50:26.959
got nothing, and their house is
a piece of shit. Yeah, Which,

2293
02:50:26.959 --> 02:50:31.159
so that's the one thing you'll read
about the search warrant that was executed

2294
02:50:31.200 --> 02:50:35.959
on their home is that supposedly he
was a millionaire. He had a successful

2295
02:50:35.120 --> 02:50:41.319
architectural business, but his home was
a fucking dump. Did you see pictures?

2296
02:50:43.280 --> 02:50:46.440
Oh yeah, it's a dump.
It's it looks like shit. Yeah,

2297
02:50:46.159 --> 02:50:48.799
so, and it's cluttered. He
bought the home from his mom,

2298
02:50:50.239 --> 02:50:52.120
you know, for a ridiculously low
price. It's an expensive neighborhood that they're

2299
02:50:52.159 --> 02:50:54.879
in. So he made out like
a bandit there. He grew up in

2300
02:50:54.920 --> 02:51:00.200
the home that's his childhood home,
left it, left it cluttered, full

2301
02:51:00.239 --> 02:51:07.280
of ship. Yeah, but it
makes sense that his grandfather's belt would still

2302
02:51:07.319 --> 02:51:11.239
be in the fucking house, right. W h makes me feel like even

2303
02:51:11.280 --> 02:51:15.040
more likely that there's definitely some ship
there. They said they got mountains of

2304
02:51:15.040 --> 02:51:20.360
evidence. I'm thinking trophies and thinking
a lot of things. Yeah, and

2305
02:51:20.479 --> 02:51:22.680
if she is as innocent as I'm
thinking she really is, in the end,

2306
02:51:24.159 --> 02:51:26.719
I have for Aesa. I hope
she makes it up as much as

2307
02:51:26.760 --> 02:51:30.319
possible. I feel sorry for the
kids, Like when you look at the

2308
02:51:30.319 --> 02:51:33.680
pictures, especially the son Christopher,
he's mentally challenged, you just feel real

2309
02:51:33.760 --> 02:51:37.799
bad. Yeah. Yeah, And
I got pictures of a family on the

2310
02:51:37.879 --> 02:51:41.040
show in the show notes listening.
They're also victims, especially the kids.

2311
02:51:41.239 --> 02:51:46.079
They're innocent, definitely part of it
in a naive way. Something I was

2312
02:51:46.159 --> 02:51:52.239
just gonna say. Something else I
heard recently was listeners look up time out

2313
02:51:52.360 --> 02:51:58.120
dolls to google the term time out
dolls, and then in relation to Long

2314
02:51:58.159 --> 02:52:01.200
Island, Serra Killer looked that up
to Yes, so you saw the photos

2315
02:52:01.239 --> 02:52:05.840
Oscar show it to me. Okay, Yeah, so they found what's called

2316
02:52:05.920 --> 02:52:09.479
timeout dolls, and apparently these were
big in the eighties and nineties. There's

2317
02:52:09.559 --> 02:52:13.920
kind of they're kind of these crocheted
dolls that are made to stand against the

2318
02:52:13.000 --> 02:52:16.799
wall and they look like kids in
time out with their nose against the wall.

2319
02:52:16.879 --> 02:52:20.639
Super creepy, fucking the dumbest thing
I've ever seen. So dumb,

2320
02:52:20.760 --> 02:52:24.959
yes, but it's all so what
they what was happening is for each of

2321
02:52:26.000 --> 02:52:31.159
the gig four victims, they had
like little memorial service memorial spots where their

2322
02:52:31.239 --> 02:52:33.200
bodies were found, like you see
on the side of highways and stuff.

2323
02:52:33.239 --> 02:52:37.959
You see the cross from motorcycles people
that died, same thing here. They

2324
02:52:37.000 --> 02:52:41.680
had these crosses set up with candles
and their names on the crosses. Well,

2325
02:52:41.760 --> 02:52:46.680
someone put these Timeout dolls at these
crosses. Yeah, as if to

2326
02:52:46.840 --> 02:52:52.120
say these women were bad. They're
on Timeout. How fucking sick could you

2327
02:52:52.200 --> 02:52:54.600
get? And one of them,
I think it was Marine Brainer Barnes.

2328
02:52:56.200 --> 02:53:00.440
One of the time out dolls had
like stuffing coming out of its mouth m

2329
02:53:00.799 --> 02:53:05.239
signifying like something was done to this
person's mouth, you know, maybe during

2330
02:53:05.280 --> 02:53:09.159
the murder or something like that.
Fucked up, dude. It brings out

2331
02:53:09.159 --> 02:53:11.719
all the craziest kind of ship.
Bring out the crazies. Some guy in

2332
02:53:11.799 --> 02:53:16.399
some basement somewhere I saw an opportunity, Like my chance, that's what it

2333
02:53:16.479 --> 02:53:18.280
is. Because people were saying,
oh, it's Rex, it's Rex putting

2334
02:53:18.280 --> 02:53:20.680
the girls in time out. I
mean could be, but I don't think

2335
02:53:20.719 --> 02:53:26.840
so high. But that's it.
That's it. Riving from Manhattan to that

2336
02:53:26.959 --> 02:53:33.520
park and that's it. Right back
and forth. He's just going back and

2337
02:53:33.600 --> 02:53:35.920
forth. Want an asshole? Yeah? No. One thing I was confused

2338
02:53:35.920 --> 02:53:41.399
about too, is I'm not sure
where his avalanche. Yeah, the Chevy

2339
02:53:41.479 --> 02:53:46.120
Avalanche was confiscated. From some stories
I read made it sound like it was

2340
02:53:46.159 --> 02:53:50.319
at his brother's house in South Carolina. Did you see it coming and just

2341
02:53:50.360 --> 02:53:54.559
got it from there? If you
saw it coming brother to his brother,

2342
02:53:56.559 --> 02:53:58.120
I don't know how it wind up
for his brother. Other stories make it

2343
02:53:58.159 --> 02:54:01.799
sound like it was CONFI skated at
his master people Park home. So that's

2344
02:54:01.879 --> 02:54:05.719
great. It goes it's fifty to
fifty. Where did they find this thing?

2345
02:54:05.840 --> 02:54:07.319
But I don't know how much is
that? Is that even important?

2346
02:54:07.440 --> 02:54:11.520
But maybe it could be, certainly
could be if there's blood or hair or

2347
02:54:11.600 --> 02:54:13.040
some sort of result. There's brother
could be mixing the gain. I don't

2348
02:54:13.040 --> 02:54:16.799
know what the book, but apparently
his brother has been in trouble at the

2349
02:54:16.920 --> 02:54:20.280
law. Shit like that, like
small shed or bigger shit, assault on

2350
02:54:20.399 --> 02:54:24.159
neighbors, and he's just kind of
a fucking wacko. It's a drunk of

2351
02:54:24.239 --> 02:54:28.680
wacko, ma'am. I guess,
sir, that's where they hang out.

2352
02:54:28.719 --> 02:54:33.639
I guess so. I mentioned in
the first part one of this show.

2353
02:54:33.719 --> 02:54:35.239
Again, if you have the any
of this far without us into part one,

2354
02:54:35.280 --> 02:54:41.079
What's wrong with You? We mentioned
that psychic, Yes, some of

2355
02:54:41.120 --> 02:54:46.000
that psychic that got something right.
Yes, So I'm surprised that you didn't

2356
02:54:46.040 --> 02:54:48.680
say anything more about that in a
sense like, well, I'm sorry,

2357
02:54:48.760 --> 02:54:52.760
nothing more came out of that.
In reality, meaning that she the psychic,

2358
02:54:52.799 --> 02:54:56.079
I imagine is that she didn't come
out to try to capitalize on this,

2359
02:54:58.319 --> 02:55:03.120
or like the family sought her off
for further predictions that we know about.

2360
02:55:03.360 --> 02:55:07.280
Obviously we don't because you didn't say
anything else, might to assume there's

2361
02:55:07.319 --> 02:55:09.959
nothing else we know. And really
that was just a blurb. And I

2362
02:55:11.000 --> 02:55:13.079
think it was like a New York
Times story. It was a blurb.

2363
02:55:13.319 --> 02:55:16.959
It was just a blurb in that
story that I feel like we're a supernatur

2364
02:55:16.040 --> 02:55:20.000
podcast. We should probably ask I
remember, you should call her up.

2365
02:55:20.520 --> 02:55:26.360
I think she'll answer which victim that
was? And I don't have episode one

2366
02:55:26.479 --> 02:55:30.600
on me on my iPad here,
but you're right, one of the victims

2367
02:55:31.000 --> 02:55:35.399
the family content. I think it
was for Marine or it was from of

2368
02:55:35.399 --> 02:55:37.440
the Go Go for it was one
of the Go Go It might have been

2369
02:55:37.479 --> 02:55:41.319
Marino more that's I'm thinking because the
psychic said that she'll be found in a

2370
02:55:41.440 --> 02:55:46.120
shallow grave near water, yes,
with a sign with the letter G.

2371
02:55:46.360 --> 02:55:50.920
And of course she was found on
the shore of the Atlantic. Creepy.

2372
02:55:52.319 --> 02:55:58.680
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, did I mention to you about the

2373
02:56:00.079 --> 02:56:05.719
uh Peach? Was that off air
about Peaches and her kid? I think

2374
02:56:05.799 --> 02:56:09.520
it was off air? So I
mention, now we had an idea today?

2375
02:56:09.600 --> 02:56:11.520
Yeah, yeah, I had an
idea about it. I was listening

2376
02:56:11.559 --> 02:56:13.920
to part one on the way home
here on the way to this recording.

2377
02:56:13.959 --> 02:56:20.040
Sorry, and it's like at home
no lately, yeah, fucking lately.

2378
02:56:20.120 --> 02:56:22.280
Yeah, Katie's like, what up? She doesn't even say how to be

2379
02:56:22.360 --> 02:56:28.200
privately about how it was strange and
people were saying that obviously she had her

2380
02:56:28.280 --> 02:56:31.799
kid with her and that people were
saying that speculating that she took your kid,

2381
02:56:31.799 --> 02:56:35.159
whether it was like we hard to
find a babysitter or the care and

2382
02:56:35.440 --> 02:56:37.440
took him to an alcohol but like, no, no, no, most

2383
02:56:37.520 --> 02:56:39.680
likely it was an in call.
We got a lot of these, a

2384
02:56:39.760 --> 02:56:43.239
lot of these situations and murders happened
when they were in calls too, so

2385
02:56:43.479 --> 02:56:48.639
like, yeah, most likely it
was her place where she had her kid

2386
02:56:48.719 --> 02:56:52.280
with her, and then another room
maybe or if it was a motel,

2387
02:56:52.399 --> 02:56:56.399
same room, maybe the bathroom,
who knows, And then maybe he cried

2388
02:56:56.079 --> 02:56:58.200
disturbed. You know, it could
be a lot of things. I even

2389
02:56:58.239 --> 02:57:01.280
said that I could have been a
mercy thing, like instead of letting the

2390
02:57:01.360 --> 02:57:03.879
kids start just killing me. I
don't know how darkness goes. I'm just

2391
02:57:03.959 --> 02:57:09.000
saying that. I think that's more
likelier than her bringing her baby outwood to

2392
02:57:09.120 --> 02:57:13.959
a call. I want to mention
that because it seemed like most people were

2393
02:57:15.000 --> 02:57:18.120
thinking alcohol, Like, no,
I'm thinking in call on that one,

2394
02:57:18.079 --> 02:57:22.799
which is fucked up for sure.
But what isn't fucked up here? Yeah?

2395
02:57:24.120 --> 02:57:30.520
Is the thing the seventeen year old
from the Victoria, the artist,

2396
02:57:31.360 --> 02:57:35.079
the DNA that's pending with her.
That's interesting you mentioned that. I assume

2397
02:57:37.120 --> 02:57:41.959
that's for the Falls guy, the
Nathan Falls Or is this for Rex?

2398
02:57:43.479 --> 02:57:48.520
I think it's for Rex. Okay, I hope so well. It could

2399
02:57:48.559 --> 02:57:50.479
be it could be Neil Falls too. Yeah, no, I mean you're

2400
02:57:50.559 --> 02:57:54.959
right, it couldn't. I think
every murder should be hell up against that

2401
02:57:54.120 --> 02:57:58.159
guy as much DNA as you can. I think he was way more active

2402
02:57:58.239 --> 02:58:01.239
than ten things so too. I
mean, that guy is pretty scary,

2403
02:58:01.399 --> 02:58:05.479
the fact that we know nothing,
and when you see his picture he looks

2404
02:58:05.520 --> 02:58:09.399
like a fucking pip squeak dude,
like like STABUSHEMMI uh. And that movie

2405
02:58:09.399 --> 02:58:13.879
where he plays a serial killer.
What's that movie? Con Air? Oh?

2406
02:58:13.120 --> 02:58:16.360
God? Like that he looks a
little more fuller in the face.

2407
02:58:16.440 --> 02:58:20.399
Okay, but yeah, he just
looks like a fucking do like a teacher

2408
02:58:20.559 --> 02:58:26.120
or something like a Yeah, it's
so weird. So I have two more

2409
02:58:26.200 --> 02:58:31.760
things regarding Atlantic City. Yes,
it seems like that's the least likeliest scenario

2410
02:58:31.000 --> 02:58:37.000
that anyone we talked about is involved
there. I don't know, those are

2411
02:58:37.079 --> 02:58:39.959
mols are different. It feels like
it's different enough. I'm not saying that

2412
02:58:41.479 --> 02:58:43.280
the way they looked. Yes,
they're all sex workers, I get that,

2413
02:58:43.959 --> 02:58:46.559
But like, I know that mentioned
the problems with the Vegas ones,

2414
02:58:48.440 --> 02:58:52.040
I mentioned those those. Apart from
that, I feel like Atlantic City feels

2415
02:58:52.040 --> 02:58:54.120
like a completely different killer to me. Yeah, we don't forget Atlantic City.

2416
02:58:54.159 --> 02:58:58.600
They were behind that hotel, yes, and they were evenly spaced three

2417
02:58:58.799 --> 02:59:01.959
d and twenty feet apart. They
were told their heads were facing east.

2418
02:59:01.159 --> 02:59:05.079
Yeah, the east, they say
the gig victims heads were facing east.

2419
02:59:05.360 --> 02:59:09.399
It just seems so bizarre, Like
Tracy, New York, New Jersey.

2420
02:59:09.440 --> 02:59:11.639
I'm Tracy, right, that's a
drive because they love comparing each other.

2421
02:59:11.799 --> 02:59:15.799
That is a drive far. No, you're right, it's not far.

2422
02:59:16.159 --> 02:59:22.040
And I felt I felt weird.
I think mainly because of Tracy, her

2423
02:59:22.079 --> 02:59:26.399
whereabouts like that. She was the
fourth victim that we talked about, third

2424
02:59:26.440 --> 02:59:33.440
one, third one for the Atlantic
City. They're all ages twenty nine to

2425
02:59:33.520 --> 02:59:35.360
forty two, So that threw me
off to the age. Yeah, a

2426
02:59:35.360 --> 02:59:39.879
little bit older. That's twice older
for thirty what was it forty two,

2427
02:59:41.319 --> 02:59:46.399
thirty, Yeah, that's a little
bit older. I think, noticeably older

2428
02:59:46.440 --> 02:59:50.280
for this guy. If it's our
guy, that's what That's what threw me

2429
02:59:50.360 --> 02:59:52.319
up. That's exactly what. That's
the I knew. I wrote it down

2430
02:59:52.360 --> 02:59:56.559
for a reason. That's why.
But I think also a common theme with

2431
02:59:56.639 --> 03:00:00.319
those women is they were they were
heavily. Is that the thing is that

2432
03:00:00.399 --> 03:00:05.239
the drugs were used to subdue them
too. This guy didn't never needed that.

2433
03:00:05.920 --> 03:00:07.440
Either they did it themselves or he
gave it to them, we don't

2434
03:00:07.479 --> 03:00:11.040
know, but some of them when
you mentioned there were lethal amounts yeah,

2435
03:00:11.159 --> 03:00:15.600
yeah, so the one leaves so
no, I mean he meane this.

2436
03:00:15.680 --> 03:00:20.520
I mean I feel like this killer
used a different entire methodology and like different

2437
03:00:20.680 --> 03:00:24.719
types, not different types, but
different women, different victims. It just

2438
03:00:24.760 --> 03:00:28.159
doesn't feel right to me. I
think the age is the biggest one there,

2439
03:00:28.239 --> 03:00:31.520
and I don't know if that's a
big sticking point for me. I

2440
03:00:31.719 --> 03:00:35.520
just think they were so badly addicted
to drugs that they were just way too

2441
03:00:35.559 --> 03:00:39.440
convenient. That's what I think.
So it was easy pickings for him,

2442
03:00:39.479 --> 03:00:43.000
easy pickings. Maybe that's what you're
thinking. Yeah, the age doesn't really

2443
03:00:43.040 --> 03:00:48.760
bother me. Well about the two
unknown men that accompany her with Tracy when

2444
03:00:48.799 --> 03:00:52.079
she leaves the hospital, Mom says
that, yeah, I know, I

2445
03:00:52.159 --> 03:00:56.680
know that's your accompany men. We
mentioned that guy with the truck earlier with

2446
03:00:56.879 --> 03:01:01.639
the one other one, and mentioned
fact that he could be have an accomplice

2447
03:01:01.719 --> 03:01:07.600
with him. Is that what that
is? Last scene with two unaccomped two

2448
03:01:07.680 --> 03:01:11.719
men accompanying her, That's yeah,
that's the story, you know, and

2449
03:01:11.959 --> 03:01:13.959
just missed her mom by five minutes. By five minutes, she was coming

2450
03:01:15.159 --> 03:01:18.079
right back. If you drove all
night or ninety minutes straight. Yeah,

2451
03:01:18.120 --> 03:01:22.600
And it's never really clear on who
sees them. Yeah, was it a

2452
03:01:22.639 --> 03:01:26.159
hospital worker that sees them? Prostitute
that's where the background the streets ready and

2453
03:01:26.239 --> 03:01:31.200
the prostitute senior with two john's.
It's not clear, but yeah, who

2454
03:01:31.239 --> 03:01:35.479
are those people? That's who I'm
looking for from a cop. Yeah,

2455
03:01:35.040 --> 03:01:39.559
And there was really never a physical
description of these people put out there.

2456
03:01:39.639 --> 03:01:43.840
I have been far enough away tonight. Yeah. Well one was almost seven

2457
03:01:43.879 --> 03:01:46.760
feet tall, that's rex. Yeah, nothing was ever given. That's the

2458
03:01:46.799 --> 03:01:50.879
other thing I think I mentioned in
the first take of this thing, where

2459
03:01:52.040 --> 03:01:54.239
like the worst thing you can be
is be so distinctive that you can be

2460
03:01:54.319 --> 03:01:58.000
described from a farm, Like you
can't be a serial killer. You can't

2461
03:01:58.040 --> 03:02:01.639
be seven feet tall and be a
serial killer. No, Like you're so

2462
03:02:01.879 --> 03:02:05.920
easily spotted. What an idiot?
Like just curb your appatite or cut your

2463
03:02:07.000 --> 03:02:11.680
legs off, because what are you
doing commit murders on your knee? Right

2464
03:02:11.760 --> 03:02:15.520
right right? Just go kneel down. That's a funny image to me.

2465
03:02:16.040 --> 03:02:20.239
That's probably not good. But you
know what I'm saying, like like he's

2466
03:02:20.360 --> 03:02:24.440
too distinguished, and the lgarness also
doesn't help, right, No, nothing

2467
03:02:24.479 --> 03:02:26.799
helps, it does, nothing helps. I feel like, this guy should

2468
03:02:26.799 --> 03:02:28.040
have been caught a long time ago. Obviously, this speaks more against our

2469
03:02:28.440 --> 03:02:33.239
systems and shit, and have to
mention our socially speaking systems of not respecting

2470
03:02:33.280 --> 03:02:37.399
adult human beings like sex workers.
We talked about that last episode, right,

2471
03:02:37.600 --> 03:02:39.840
but yeah, the lost stuff is
not very good, very slow and

2472
03:02:41.319 --> 03:02:43.680
ignorant, and this is the result
of that because this guy should have been

2473
03:02:43.719 --> 03:02:50.120
caught so much longer ago. Look
at the phone. Shit agreed, what

2474
03:02:50.200 --> 03:02:54.559
an idiot agreed? Yeah, they
they really dropped the ball on this.

2475
03:02:54.639 --> 03:02:58.120
At least he's behind bars now.
Yeah, let's hope this is the guy.

2476
03:03:01.120 --> 03:03:03.959
We have to really saddened me as
if it comes out that he killed

2477
03:03:05.120 --> 03:03:09.280
way more than we even know,
like, because that would just make it

2478
03:03:09.360 --> 03:03:15.120
worse. You know, Like,
I don't know what is a window?

2479
03:03:15.159 --> 03:03:18.799
You know, everyone talks about a
serial killer has their their window not appetite

2480
03:03:18.840 --> 03:03:20.079
window. They call it something,
right, their window? How many times

2481
03:03:20.120 --> 03:03:24.479
they kill before they have to do
it again? Right when the next time

2482
03:03:24.520 --> 03:03:26.920
they feel they have that cooling off
period? Yeah, yeah, yeah,

2483
03:03:26.920 --> 03:03:30.280
they call it something though it's not
name for it. I don't know,

2484
03:03:30.440 --> 03:03:33.600
so I don't know how many more
kills they have, but best. Well,

2485
03:03:33.639 --> 03:03:37.120
Fiat thought, let's hope it stops
here. Yeah, let's hope it

2486
03:03:37.159 --> 03:03:39.280
stops here. Yeah, until we
start hearing more about this Neil's fall.

2487
03:03:39.399 --> 03:03:43.399
Neil falls guy, right then,
I think we're going to see a trail

2488
03:03:43.639 --> 03:03:48.239
unfortunately with him. But time will
tell. Yep, time will tell,

2489
03:03:48.959 --> 03:03:54.239
and hopefully some new news comes out
so we could update you guys. Yeah

2490
03:03:54.520 --> 03:03:56.399
on this case. Yeah, right, right, should have like pangs and

2491
03:03:56.440 --> 03:04:00.440
notifications ready, you can, Yeah, you can set up Google Now,

2492
03:04:00.440 --> 03:04:03.440
that's a good idea. I should
set up a Google alert so anytime anything

2493
03:04:03.479 --> 03:04:07.040
with Rex hits, the news will
get links to it, and we'll try

2494
03:04:07.079 --> 03:04:11.079
to keep you guys updated. Do
you have more questions? No more thoughts?

2495
03:04:11.239 --> 03:04:13.440
Maybe a couple of little ones,
but no big deal. I think

2496
03:04:13.440 --> 03:04:18.280
I got everything. Are you sure? I am good? Yes? All

2497
03:04:18.399 --> 03:04:20.200
right? Well, you know,
I hope everyone liked these two episodes.

2498
03:04:20.920 --> 03:04:26.600
Make sure and check the show notes
and have a merry Christmas. Is that

2499
03:04:26.719 --> 03:04:30.159
going to be? This is going
to be close to a yeah, okay,

2500
03:04:30.200 --> 03:04:33.200
so time in December. We'll come
back in January, probably January.

2501
03:04:33.239 --> 03:04:37.120
Okay, so merry Christmas, thank
you, yeah, Merry Christmas, bastards.

2502
03:04:37.680 --> 03:04:43.120
Well then there you go, scre
Could you please hop us along home

2503
03:04:43.879 --> 03:05:24.000
a long case at each wow,
Goose Island sticker and ship. Yeah,

2504
03:05:24.360 --> 03:05:31.360
do you want some or no?
I will try some. Anything you gave

2505
03:05:31.399 --> 03:05:37.440
me I'm putting in my mouth.
Okay. Oh that was nice, satisfying

2506
03:05:37.479 --> 03:05:48.000
sound. Oh interesting, hmmm.
I like the wait of this. It's

2507
03:05:48.000 --> 03:05:52.719
a nice it's a nice cap.
It's a very nice cap. We're so

2508
03:05:52.879 --> 03:06:00.479
dorky that we're so into the shed
a little bit. That's good, thank

2509
03:06:00.520 --> 03:06:03.440
you. And it's a hundred proof
so it's not like insane, but it's

2510
03:06:03.479 --> 03:06:07.000
good on this hunter proof. Yeah, that day when we recorded part one,

2511
03:06:07.680 --> 03:06:09.399
I think I rank too much,
too fast. It was a little

2512
03:06:11.600 --> 03:06:13.399
little dizzy, A little dizzy.
Yeah, I need neither. But yes,

2513
03:06:16.760 --> 03:06:18.639
I'm digging the smell. Yeah,
I'm digging the smell too. Let's

2514
03:06:18.639 --> 03:06:22.399
try Oh you want to try it
on camera? Yeah, we'll try on

2515
03:06:22.440 --> 03:06:24.680
camera that we can give our our
reactions there. All right, fair enough.

2516
03:06:26.680 --> 03:06:28.760
I've been recording for I don't know
how long now, so oh okay,

2517
03:06:30.079 --> 03:06:31.520
anyway, lucky, let's try this. Oh no, we want to

2518
03:06:31.559 --> 03:06:39.879
try it on the on that thing? Yeah you ready? Yeah, okay,

2519
03:06:39.760 --> 03:06:43.399
I wish I still smoked. I've
been feeling like smoking lately. I'm

2520
03:06:43.440 --> 03:06:46.719
sorry, am I bad influence on
your No? Okay, no, but

2521
03:06:46.840 --> 03:06:52.600
that does smell like it's the we
call them the bumin natty. Like when

2522
03:06:52.639 --> 03:07:00.159
you go to Italian weddings, they
have these little lace packets filled with these

2523
03:07:00.600 --> 03:07:07.520
candied almonds. Delicious. Oh they're
so good. And that's what that smells

2524
03:07:07.559 --> 03:07:09.680
like. It smells like those candy
almonds, And it's like, do you

2525
03:07:09.719 --> 03:07:11.959
want to try it? No?
You kidding? I got what half a

2526
03:07:11.959 --> 03:07:15.479
foot in the grave as it is, the last thing I need to do

2527
03:07:15.600 --> 03:07:18.000
is start destroying my lungs again.
Yeah, I get it, all right,

2528
03:07:20.760 --> 03:07:28.840
Yeah, baby, drink, keep
trying to go for I want to

2529
03:07:28.920 --> 03:07:33.680
drink this fucking whiskey. Okay.
See this is the difference right here,

2530
03:07:33.799 --> 03:07:39.319
instead of like well no, no, no in my head anyway five four

2531
03:07:39.040 --> 03:07:43.600
three two one Part three to mention
like, it's not like quite like that.

2532
03:07:45.239 --> 03:07:52.600
It's more like like I don't know
stuff stuff and things are things you

2533
03:07:52.680 --> 03:07:56.200
could tell I was. I wrote
this part at home because it's well thought

2534
03:07:56.200 --> 03:07:58.680
out, was full suns. And
then you're like Karen Manhattan, okay,

2535
03:08:00.200 --> 03:08:03.280
Jody two thousand and three, cowgirl
like. I said that because I'm driving.

2536
03:08:05.120 --> 03:08:07.959
Fucking dude. You gotta be careful, man, I do it careful.

2537
03:08:07.959 --> 03:08:15.799
At least you weren't watching a movie. Well I was done. No,

2538
03:08:16.760 --> 03:08:26.520
I wasn't, but nice will be. Oh yes, chocolate noodle nipples,

2539
03:08:28.600 --> 03:08:33.719
baby bumpers. What's a noodle nipple
or trying to get to No,

2540
03:08:33.879 --> 03:08:37.879
I know what you're doing. Yeah, I need water. Gonna go get

2541
03:08:37.920 --> 03:08:45.719
some water. Okay, Well I
saw you going five four three two