WEBVTT 1 00:00:30.839 --> 00:00:34.560 Welcome back to the Path went Chili for part two of our series on the 2 00:00:34.640 --> 00:00:38.679 disappearance of Judith Hiams. Robin, do you want to catch everyone up on 3 00:00:38.799 --> 00:00:42.439 what we talked about in our previous episode? Well, this case started in 4 00:00:42.520 --> 00:00:46.280 nineteen sixty five. It involved a twenty two year old woman named Judith Hiams 5 00:00:46.280 --> 00:00:50.439 who withdrew some money from a bank and left her job for an appointment, 6 00:00:50.560 --> 00:00:54.679 but then vanished without a trace, and her abandoned car was found in Atlanta, 7 00:00:55.119 --> 00:00:59.439 six hundred fifty miles away, and it eventually came out that Judy was 8 00:00:59.479 --> 00:01:03.399 likely magnant. She had been starting out a relationship with another man and had 9 00:01:03.399 --> 00:01:07.439 made arrangements to get an abortion from an Hungarian immigrant named George Hadju, who 10 00:01:07.519 --> 00:01:11.879 was unlicensed and pretty shady, so they started to think that something bad might 11 00:01:11.920 --> 00:01:17.280 have happened and they covered the whole thing up. Hadju was arrested for conspiring 12 00:01:17.319 --> 00:01:19.879 to perform an illegal abortion, but after he was bailed out, he jumped 13 00:01:19.879 --> 00:01:25.599 bail and left the country and the case went called for twenty four years until 14 00:01:25.640 --> 00:01:30.959 he captained with the Coral Gables Police Department started receiving strange phone calls from Omaha, 15 00:01:30.040 --> 00:01:34.079 Nebraska, including a woman who said Judy Himes is alive and she lives 16 00:01:34.079 --> 00:01:38.120 in Omaha. So that compelled the Coral Gables to reopen the case. It 17 00:01:38.200 --> 00:01:42.719 was featured on Unstall Mysteries, and after the show aired, the cops received 18 00:01:42.760 --> 00:01:48.519 an anonymous letter saying that Judy died on the operating table because of complications from 19 00:01:48.519 --> 00:01:52.879 an abortion, so the responsible parties disposed of her body by tossing it into 20 00:01:52.920 --> 00:01:56.079 Biscayne Bay. The police found the letter to be credible, but they never 21 00:01:56.120 --> 00:01:59.879 did find Judy's body. And the big mystery in this case is the phone 22 00:02:00.120 --> 00:02:02.560 calls. Because the case had been out of the spotlight for several decades, 23 00:02:02.560 --> 00:02:07.400 he had a bunch of anonymous phone calls from Omaha, Nebraska just seemed to 24 00:02:07.480 --> 00:02:10.000 jump started again. And they never figured out who made the phone calls or 25 00:02:10.000 --> 00:02:14.479 why they decided to do it after all these years. And that's pretty much 26 00:02:14.479 --> 00:02:17.599 the big mystery that we're going to talk about on this part of the episode. 27 00:02:19.560 --> 00:02:23.960 But before we discuss why this story returned to the spotlight after twenty four 28 00:02:23.039 --> 00:02:29.000 years, let's start at the beginning. Since the Unsolved Mysteries segment put most 29 00:02:29.000 --> 00:02:32.599 of their focus on the mysterious phone calls. They kind of glossed over many 30 00:02:32.599 --> 00:02:37.960 of the details about Judith Hime's pregnancy. Well, they mentioned that Judy was 31 00:02:38.000 --> 00:02:42.400 a recent divorcee. They did not provide any information about who the father of 32 00:02:42.400 --> 00:02:46.680 her unborn child might have been. But if you research the original media coverage 33 00:02:46.680 --> 00:02:51.000 of Judy's disappearance from the nineteen sixties, you'll see that this was quite a 34 00:02:51.039 --> 00:02:55.120 scandalous story at the time. It now seems apparent that after divorcing her husband, 35 00:02:55.280 --> 00:03:00.000 Judy became involved with doctor Lucy and Gordon, and that an unplanned pregnancy 36 00:03:00.000 --> 00:03:06.639 occurred. As you're probably aware, this was still several years before Rove Wade, 37 00:03:06.960 --> 00:03:09.759 so abortions were illegal and if a woman wanted one, she'd have to 38 00:03:09.800 --> 00:03:15.319 do so under the radar, And unfortunately this meant having to visit shady individuals 39 00:03:15.360 --> 00:03:20.439 like George had You, who did not even have a legitimate license to practice 40 00:03:20.520 --> 00:03:24.599 medicine in the United States and had already faced legal trouble for performing abortions before 41 00:03:24.680 --> 00:03:30.439 Judy even met him. It's quite surreal to go back and read old newspaper 42 00:03:30.520 --> 00:03:36.680 articles about law enforcement putting together special abortion squads during this time period to crack 43 00:03:36.759 --> 00:03:42.159 down on the problem and using undercover female officers to set up elaborate staying operations. 44 00:03:42.719 --> 00:03:46.919 One of the big turning points in the abortion reform movement took place one 45 00:03:46.000 --> 00:03:53.599 year before Judy's disappearance, when a Connecticut woman named Jerry Santauro became pregnant after 46 00:03:53.639 --> 00:03:57.919 an affair with a married man named Clyde Dixon. Six months into her pregnancy, 47 00:03:58.039 --> 00:04:01.240 they both checked into a motel to form a self induced abortion, but 48 00:04:01.400 --> 00:04:08.199 Santoro died of complications, and since Dixon fled the scene instead of seeking medical 49 00:04:08.240 --> 00:04:13.520 attention, he was charged with manslaughter. The incident demonstrated the lengths women often 50 00:04:13.560 --> 00:04:16.879 had to go to at this time without access to legal abortion. It's so 51 00:04:16.920 --> 00:04:21.519 sad because I really, in my gut feel like had Judy been given options, 52 00:04:21.560 --> 00:04:27.160 had she found herself in this relationship where this older man who's very successful 53 00:04:27.199 --> 00:04:30.240 as a doctor, gets her pregnant, and she, I feel like, 54 00:04:30.279 --> 00:04:34.879 would have likely been forced to have an abortion, or very highly encouraged by 55 00:04:35.680 --> 00:04:40.439 her partner at the time to do so. He even arranges the abortion for 56 00:04:40.480 --> 00:04:44.199 her, but doesn't go with her. He doesn't pay for it, So 57 00:04:44.360 --> 00:04:49.920 I feel like she's pretty helpless, and yet yet I feel like she would 58 00:04:49.920 --> 00:04:53.600 have had a family that would have said, listen, we love you, 59 00:04:54.120 --> 00:04:58.079 right, it's okay, We're gonna be okay, you're twenty two. Give 60 00:04:58.120 --> 00:05:01.480 a big life ahead of you, right. I feel like Judy died via 61 00:05:01.560 --> 00:05:09.279 complications very similar to Jerry Santoro, and how sad that it would take these 62 00:05:09.360 --> 00:05:12.439 kinds of cases to get people to just look around and say, I don't 63 00:05:12.480 --> 00:05:15.800 have to personally agree with it. I could be absolutely horrified by the reality 64 00:05:15.800 --> 00:05:19.160 of what an abortion is. But to look next to me and see women 65 00:05:19.360 --> 00:05:24.879 who are going to put themselves in a position to die because they can't take 66 00:05:24.920 --> 00:05:27.480 care of a baby, or they're not able to be in a situation where 67 00:05:27.519 --> 00:05:30.639 they're in a safe place to take care of a baby, it breaks my 68 00:05:30.680 --> 00:05:33.680 heart. It absolutely breaks my heart. I'm really reticent to talk about this 69 00:05:33.759 --> 00:05:39.560 because I know that so many people listening probably are very against abortion, but 70 00:05:39.639 --> 00:05:45.199 I feel like it adds something to share this story. So this was almost 71 00:05:45.199 --> 00:05:49.240 twenty years ago, when I was twenty one and I was in a relationship 72 00:05:49.279 --> 00:05:56.560 with somebody who was abusive. I happened to get pregnant. We were being 73 00:05:56.600 --> 00:06:00.439 responsible, but clearly not responsible enough because I was twenty one and I was 74 00:06:00.439 --> 00:06:04.839 stupid. I was in love and it was very unhealthy dynamic. And when 75 00:06:04.839 --> 00:06:08.240 it came up that I found out I was pregnant, I knew that I 76 00:06:08.240 --> 00:06:11.600 could not bring a baby into the world. I was not in a place, 77 00:06:11.680 --> 00:06:15.000 I was going to school, and I had a partner who was not 78 00:06:15.120 --> 00:06:18.319 supportive, but yet it was trying to force me to have a baby, 79 00:06:18.480 --> 00:06:23.959 and it was just an uncomfortable situation. I didn't tell my family because I 80 00:06:24.000 --> 00:06:26.800 thought that my family would judge me, and I just didn't think it was 81 00:06:26.839 --> 00:06:30.000 something that I could bring to them. So I talked to my friends and 82 00:06:30.079 --> 00:06:33.240 we researched it. And because I lived in Canada, I had access to 83 00:06:33.360 --> 00:06:36.600 something like that. I remember going with my boyfriend. You go for your 84 00:06:36.600 --> 00:06:40.000 interview and then you I think, you come back like a week later, 85 00:06:40.560 --> 00:06:45.000 and you had it done. And I, even though he was like a 86 00:06:45.040 --> 00:06:48.800 horrible human, he at the very least Judy didn't have this. Judy didn't 87 00:06:48.839 --> 00:06:51.639 have Lucy and come with her when she went to her abortion. She had 88 00:06:51.680 --> 00:06:57.399 to go by herself, and she had to probably die on this dirty table 89 00:06:57.560 --> 00:07:00.399 with had you doing? God knows what to her. It is just so 90 00:07:00.560 --> 00:07:03.600 heartbreaking, and to think that I could have been in a situation like that 91 00:07:03.720 --> 00:07:09.399 had I not had that access. It just this case really hits close to 92 00:07:09.439 --> 00:07:13.079 home for me. Jules, Thank you so much for sharing that. I 93 00:07:13.079 --> 00:07:15.480 know that took a lot to share that. I want to hug you right 94 00:07:15.519 --> 00:07:17.480 this second. I think that's incredibly brave to share, and I think it's 95 00:07:17.759 --> 00:07:20.240 real. It puts a face on the fact that, like, this is 96 00:07:20.279 --> 00:07:25.439 not some hypothetical situations. It's it's people we love, it's sisters we love, 97 00:07:25.480 --> 00:07:28.240 it's a friend that I'd go hold your hand whether I agreed with you 98 00:07:28.360 --> 00:07:30.959 or not, so that I could support you. You're still here with me 99 00:07:31.079 --> 00:07:33.560 right so like to support you and let you know that you are loved and 100 00:07:33.639 --> 00:07:39.040 worthy and perfect and everything else. So thank you for sharing that. God, 101 00:07:39.079 --> 00:07:42.079 I love you so much. I love you too. Thank you for 102 00:07:42.120 --> 00:07:45.000 sharing it. It's good to know that this decision turned out to be the 103 00:07:45.079 --> 00:07:46.160 right one for you, because, like you said, if you had this 104 00:07:46.279 --> 00:07:50.040 baby while trapped in this abusive relationship, your life may have turned out a 105 00:07:50.079 --> 00:07:54.160 whole lot differently, and you wouldn't be here with us right now. So 106 00:07:54.240 --> 00:07:59.079 I'm glad that you shared that. Thanks guys. Now, I have no 107 00:07:59.120 --> 00:08:01.319 idea if Judy had had any desire to have children, or if she and 108 00:08:01.399 --> 00:08:05.759 Lucian Gordon were interested in pursuing a serious, long term relationship. But I 109 00:08:05.800 --> 00:08:09.240 do know that Judy had just gone through a divorce at age twenty two and 110 00:08:09.360 --> 00:08:13.360 became pregnant with a man whom she'd only recently started dating and was not married 111 00:08:13.360 --> 00:08:18.079 too. Even if Judy genuinely wanted to have Lucian's child, this still would 112 00:08:18.079 --> 00:08:22.160 have been an incredibly scandalous situation for nineteen sixty five, and there would be 113 00:08:22.160 --> 00:08:26.560 a major social stigma attached to her. One of Judy's friends was interviewed during 114 00:08:26.600 --> 00:08:31.399 the Unsawd Mystery segment and flat out said that having children will Unmary just wasn't 115 00:08:31.440 --> 00:08:35.600 done back then. It became apparent that Judy had decided to confide about her 116 00:08:35.600 --> 00:08:41.039 pregnancy with a family friend, doctor Herschel Gordon, who subsequently referred him to 117 00:08:41.080 --> 00:08:45.480 George Hodju. While Lucian was not present when Judy went to have her abortion, 118 00:08:45.840 --> 00:08:48.639 he was with her when she made the original arrangements with Hodju. They 119 00:08:48.679 --> 00:08:52.080 may not have known any better at the time, but hearing that Hodju told 120 00:08:52.200 --> 00:08:56.440 Judy it was okay for her to drive herself home after the procedure is a 121 00:08:56.480 --> 00:09:01.279 major red flag. It doesn't sound like Lucian had any direct involvement in Judy's 122 00:09:01.320 --> 00:09:05.799 disappearance, since she went to the appointment alone, but he chose to remain 123 00:09:05.879 --> 00:09:09.600 silent for two years before agreeing to testify as a witness against Haju when he 124 00:09:09.639 --> 00:09:13.559 was charged with conspiring to perform an abortion. But of course, since Haju 125 00:09:13.679 --> 00:09:18.159 jumped bail, no trial ever took place. Sadly, I have no trouble 126 00:09:18.159 --> 00:09:22.600 believing that something would horribly wrong during the procedure which costs Judy her life, 127 00:09:22.679 --> 00:09:26.519 and that Hadju disposed of her body to cover the whole thing up. And 128 00:09:26.960 --> 00:09:31.240 there's really not much else to think here. I mean, you really do 129 00:09:31.320 --> 00:09:35.080 have this person who should have been there to support her and to be there 130 00:09:35.120 --> 00:09:39.840 emotionally, financially, right, and he wasn't. And then all of a 131 00:09:39.840 --> 00:09:43.600 sudden he does come forward and he says, okay, listen, I'm willing 132 00:09:43.639 --> 00:09:48.600 to testify as a witness, probably to protect his own medical credentials. Right, 133 00:09:48.639 --> 00:09:52.399 He's turning state witness against this guy who's going to be charged for actually 134 00:09:52.440 --> 00:09:56.799 performing the abortion, and then, like we talked about earlier, this this 135 00:09:56.879 --> 00:10:01.960 so called doctor who likely was present when Judy lost her life disappears and there's 136 00:10:03.039 --> 00:10:09.360 no accountability for him. And it's hard because again, he probably shouldn't have 137 00:10:09.399 --> 00:10:11.120 even been criminalized in the first place, because she would have never gone to 138 00:10:11.159 --> 00:10:15.320 a doctor like this, and so, gosh, it's sad. It's just 139 00:10:15.399 --> 00:10:18.840 sad. I was looking up about Lucian Gordon and I think he went on 140 00:10:18.879 --> 00:10:22.679 to continue working as a dentist, so I don't think this scandal really damaged 141 00:10:22.679 --> 00:10:26.000 his career and he didn't really suffer any consequences for his role in it. 142 00:10:26.000 --> 00:10:31.120 Yeah, he's the most frustrating element of this because he just really seemed to 143 00:10:31.200 --> 00:10:33.000 not be there to support her, and Ashley said in Part one that he 144 00:10:33.039 --> 00:10:39.480 treated her like an object. And his actions in the immediate aftermath obviously of 145 00:10:39.559 --> 00:10:43.120 Judy finding out, making her pay for the abortion, and then not going 146 00:10:43.159 --> 00:10:46.480 with her, saying that, oh, you know, she can drive herself 147 00:10:46.519 --> 00:10:50.320 back. It just is gross, and then pleading the Fifth Amendment to law 148 00:10:50.440 --> 00:10:56.519 enforcement when they were asking him initially questions about the abortion or about Judy, 149 00:10:56.559 --> 00:11:00.720 and like her disappearance, it's just gross, and it just be to somebody 150 00:11:00.799 --> 00:11:05.879 that really didn't have that love or that care for her when he really should 151 00:11:05.879 --> 00:11:09.399 have been showing up to try to do everything that he could to help authorities 152 00:11:09.440 --> 00:11:15.120 find out where Judy was, but instead he chose to protect himself, protect 153 00:11:15.120 --> 00:11:20.960 his dental practice, and Judy is still missing because of that, and we 154 00:11:20.960 --> 00:11:22.559 still don't even know what kind of relationship they had, like for all we 155 00:11:22.639 --> 00:11:26.279 know, he just wanted to have her for a fling or something like that. 156 00:11:26.360 --> 00:11:30.159 It wasn't interested in a long term relationship, so that's why he immediately 157 00:11:30.200 --> 00:11:35.360 thought, we have to have this abortion. One of the most curious aspects 158 00:11:35.360 --> 00:11:39.840 of this story is that Judy's rental car was found six hundred and fifty miles 159 00:11:39.840 --> 00:11:43.279 away in Atlanta. I can understand the logic behind that, as I'm guessing 160 00:11:43.279 --> 00:11:48.240 had you had someone drive it there because he wanted to distance Judy as far 161 00:11:48.279 --> 00:11:52.399 away from him as possible. Perhaps this was done to give off the impression 162 00:11:52.440 --> 00:11:56.639 that Judy took off voluntarily, or that she was abducted by someone and became 163 00:11:56.679 --> 00:12:01.039 the victim of foul play. He also might have figured that abandoning the car 164 00:12:01.080 --> 00:12:03.799 in another state would cause jurisdictional issues, like we mentioned in Part one, 165 00:12:05.799 --> 00:12:07.960 by the time the car made it back to Coral Gables, it had been 166 00:12:07.960 --> 00:12:13.759 handled by so many different agencies that it was impossible to preserve the vehicle as 167 00:12:13.759 --> 00:12:16.279 a crime scene. But it is still pretty odd that the driver would leave 168 00:12:16.320 --> 00:12:22.320 the vehicle in a residential neighborhood rather than somewhere remote, as a witness flat 169 00:12:22.320 --> 00:12:24.879 out saw him walking away from the car, and I know traces of blood 170 00:12:24.879 --> 00:12:28.360 were found in the backseat, so it is easy to assume the vehicle had 171 00:12:28.399 --> 00:12:33.559 been used to dispose of Juda's body. But this aspect of the story might 172 00:12:33.600 --> 00:12:37.639 be exaggerated. Looking back at the original newspaper articles, it sounds like the 173 00:12:37.720 --> 00:12:41.600 actual amount of blood they found was so small that it could have been caused 174 00:12:41.600 --> 00:12:46.600 by someone cutting their finger. And since it was a rental car, it's 175 00:12:46.720 --> 00:12:52.320 possible the blood stain was there before Judy even drove it. Very true, 176 00:12:52.320 --> 00:12:56.919 It's absolutely true. This is one of those facts that is so confusing because 177 00:12:56.960 --> 00:13:01.399 we just don't know who took the car there. I don't feel like it 178 00:13:01.440 --> 00:13:05.440 was Judy. I don't think Judy made it past the doctor's office, But 179 00:13:05.600 --> 00:13:09.759 again, I think there were probably several people involved who needed to make sure 180 00:13:09.799 --> 00:13:13.320 that this visit did not occur, and so I could see many people taking 181 00:13:13.399 --> 00:13:16.480 that car and dumping it. I could also, like I set an episode 182 00:13:16.480 --> 00:13:20.840 one. The problem is is it could have been abandoned ten miles from her 183 00:13:20.919 --> 00:13:24.559 house, and then someone else said, oh, there's a car, there's 184 00:13:24.600 --> 00:13:26.960 keys in it. I'm taking it and I'm going to dispose of it at 185 00:13:28.039 --> 00:13:31.039 a faraway location, you know, like they took it on a joy ride 186 00:13:31.080 --> 00:13:35.000 or something. Yeah. One mystery in this case, which has never been 187 00:13:35.000 --> 00:13:37.559 resolved, is the identity of the man who drove the car to Atlanta. 188 00:13:37.639 --> 00:13:41.840 He was described as being a white male in his twenties with a blonde crew 189 00:13:41.879 --> 00:13:45.679 cut, So I'm pretty sure it wasn't George Hodju. So who could this 190 00:13:45.720 --> 00:13:48.919 man have been. I know that when Hodju was arrested in an unrelated abortion 191 00:13:48.960 --> 00:13:54.480 case one year later, he had a codependent named Jay Anderson Martin, though 192 00:13:54.480 --> 00:13:58.639 it's unclear what his exact role was. However, since Martin was forty two 193 00:13:58.679 --> 00:14:01.480 years old and the man Anta was described as being in his twenties, I'm 194 00:14:01.480 --> 00:14:05.360 not sure it was him either. Sounds like police suspected he was an airline 195 00:14:05.360 --> 00:14:09.159 passenger who used the name Smith to purchase a ticket for a flight from Atlanta 196 00:14:09.200 --> 00:14:13.879 to Miami on the day of the car was dropped off. The fact that 197 00:14:13.960 --> 00:14:16.600 you used to be able to pay cash to purchase an airline ticket without even 198 00:14:16.679 --> 00:14:20.679 giving your full name is quite a sign of just how much things have changed 199 00:14:20.720 --> 00:14:24.399 in six decades. It doesn't look like they ever figured out who this guy 200 00:14:24.639 --> 00:14:28.519 was, though his rule takes on a more significance when you consider that this 201 00:14:28.600 --> 00:14:33.919 case was eventually revived by an anonymous mail caller, but we'll talk about that 202 00:14:33.000 --> 00:14:39.600 momentarily anyway. Once Judy's disappearance was linked to Hodju, everyone suspected that he 203 00:14:39.639 --> 00:14:43.159 was responsible. Had he not skipped bail and the authorities managed to convict him 204 00:14:43.200 --> 00:14:48.320 of conspiring to perform an abortion, It's possible that Hodju might have eventually confessed 205 00:14:48.360 --> 00:14:52.519 that Judy died while under his care. If her body was really dumped and 206 00:14:52.600 --> 00:14:56.440 biscayned Bay, then it probably would have been impossible to recover it, but 207 00:14:56.519 --> 00:15:00.840 at least everyone would have known the full truth about what she happened to her 208 00:15:01.679 --> 00:15:05.000 Even after Hodju disappeared. I think Judy's family and friends had come to terms 209 00:15:05.000 --> 00:15:09.000 with the fact that she was dead and they were probably never going to find 210 00:15:09.000 --> 00:15:13.000 her remains. I'm sure they never dreamed that her case would be revived over 211 00:15:13.039 --> 00:15:16.480 two decades later by an anonymous caller who claims she was still alive somewhere, 212 00:15:16.879 --> 00:15:22.399 paving the way to her story being featured on national network television. What's so 213 00:15:22.399 --> 00:15:26.159 said about this is that these calls, right, you don't know where Judy 214 00:15:26.320 --> 00:15:31.559 is, and so her family who desperately wants her back, right, no 215 00:15:31.600 --> 00:15:33.360 matter what that looks like, could we have her body back, Could we 216 00:15:33.600 --> 00:15:37.519 have our alive, you know, human back to us. We just don't 217 00:15:37.559 --> 00:15:43.279 know where she is. And so that alone is so traumatic and so devastating 218 00:15:43.360 --> 00:15:46.759 for her family and friends. But then to have these random calls, these 219 00:15:46.840 --> 00:15:52.559 random conspiracy theories, all these things should come up years and years and decades 220 00:15:52.679 --> 00:15:56.080 later, it keeps that grief and torment going. Is she alive? Like 221 00:15:56.840 --> 00:16:00.960 there is a five percent chance she's alive. So the poor family is sitting 222 00:16:02.000 --> 00:16:04.200 there trying to rationalize could there be any truth to these calls? Could these 223 00:16:04.279 --> 00:16:08.600 letters have any truth? And it's just pure torture. I just think the 224 00:16:08.639 --> 00:16:15.320 fact that her boyfriend at the time eventually comes forward and says that he helped 225 00:16:15.360 --> 00:16:19.519 her get this abortion. And we also know that people have said something went 226 00:16:19.559 --> 00:16:26.240 wrong there that seems most logical, but who knows? And therefore my brain 227 00:16:26.320 --> 00:16:29.799 can't stop, my heart can't rest until I know if my loved one is 228 00:16:29.799 --> 00:16:33.440 deceased or possibly still alive. Yeah, I have to wonder, Like Judy's 229 00:16:33.440 --> 00:16:37.080 family was not interviewed on UNSAWD Mysteries, and I don't know if her parents 230 00:16:37.200 --> 00:16:41.240 or many of her siblings were still alive. But I cannot imagine how weird 231 00:16:41.279 --> 00:16:44.320 that must have been, because they probably accepted she's probably dead, we may 232 00:16:44.399 --> 00:16:48.159 never find her body. And then this slim hope comes by all these years 233 00:16:48.240 --> 00:16:52.480 later that she could still be alive, and we talked about how this was 234 00:16:52.519 --> 00:16:56.039 a scandalous thing. But I think her family still would have accepted her if 235 00:16:56.039 --> 00:17:00.600 she had an abortion, because she had already gone through it avorce in sixty 236 00:17:00.600 --> 00:17:03.559 five, which was at age twenty two, which is very unusual back then. 237 00:17:03.960 --> 00:17:07.799 Yet they still like accepted her. They didn't disown her for that, 238 00:17:07.920 --> 00:17:10.640 so I think they still would have supported her even if they found out she 239 00:17:10.759 --> 00:17:15.279 was pregnant and had aborted a child. These calls are so weird though, 240 00:17:15.400 --> 00:17:19.559 Like, just keep going back to nineteen sixty five, and how the hell 241 00:17:21.559 --> 00:17:25.519 do these people get this information about this obcure cold case. It is so 242 00:17:25.680 --> 00:17:29.279 confusing unless there was a direct tie. But we know that the family has 243 00:17:29.440 --> 00:17:33.599 no tide in Nebraska, unless Judy had some tide in Nebraska that we're unaware 244 00:17:33.640 --> 00:17:36.640 of. Yeah, as far as I know, they couldn't find any. 245 00:17:37.160 --> 00:17:42.279 Okay, So this new series of events all started when Coral Gables Police Captain 246 00:17:42.400 --> 00:17:47.839 Chuck Shearer received a phone call from someone claiming to be Steve Brown, who 247 00:17:47.880 --> 00:17:52.839 said he had received new information about Judith Hime's disappearance. Now, given the 248 00:17:52.880 --> 00:17:56.799 Brown was a radio show host in Omaha, and this call took place just 249 00:17:56.880 --> 00:18:00.240 two days after Sheer returned from a lecture at a police acad to me in 250 00:18:00.319 --> 00:18:03.400 Nebraska, you'd assume that there was a connection. But the problem is that 251 00:18:03.480 --> 00:18:07.720 Sera's lecture did not actually take place in Omaha, but at an academy in 252 00:18:08.119 --> 00:18:11.720 Grand Island, a city which is one hundred and fifty miles away. And 253 00:18:11.799 --> 00:18:15.319 I'm just trying to figure out, like a side a logical explanation for how 254 00:18:15.319 --> 00:18:19.039 these events might have played out. Let's just say that Sheer went to the 255 00:18:19.160 --> 00:18:25.119 lecture and someone living in Nebraska had knowledge of the Judith Hiams case and just 256 00:18:25.160 --> 00:18:29.319 happened to find out a Quarrel Gables police captain had been there. Sara did 257 00:18:29.319 --> 00:18:33.680 say he handed out a few business cards during his trip, so perhaps one 258 00:18:33.680 --> 00:18:37.319 of these cards wound up in the hands if someone with information they wanted to 259 00:18:37.359 --> 00:18:41.160 share, I can understand them feeling compelled to phone Shearer, But what I 260 00:18:41.160 --> 00:18:48.319 cannot understand is their decision to impersonate an Omaha radio host whom Sheer had never 261 00:18:48.359 --> 00:18:52.000 even met before. If the caller was worried about incriminating himself and wanted to 262 00:18:52.000 --> 00:18:56.480 remain anonymous, that would be one thing, But pretending to be someone who 263 00:18:56.480 --> 00:19:02.119 was a fairly recognizable personality in the Omaha High area and providing a Sheer with 264 00:19:02.160 --> 00:19:06.559 that person's work and home phone numbers is another. I find it interesting how 265 00:19:06.559 --> 00:19:10.519 Sheer told the caller he had to get back to him after researching the case, 266 00:19:10.839 --> 00:19:14.559 which is why he provided these two numbers for Sheer to call. But 267 00:19:14.799 --> 00:19:18.599 what would a caller have said if Sheer immediately pressed him for information. Would 268 00:19:18.599 --> 00:19:23.119 he have actually shared anything pertinent about Judith Hiams. Again, I just don't 269 00:19:23.160 --> 00:19:27.079 see what the purpose would be for impersonating Steve Brown, who didn't know anything 270 00:19:27.119 --> 00:19:32.759 about the case. Since the caller provided sheer with Brown's unlisted home number, 271 00:19:33.000 --> 00:19:37.279 which only a limited amount of people would have known, he probably had some 272 00:19:37.319 --> 00:19:41.079 sort of personal connection to Brown. On their surface, the most logical explanation 273 00:19:41.240 --> 00:19:45.599 is that someone was playing an elaborate prank to cause confusion. But the biggest 274 00:19:45.720 --> 00:19:51.480 issue with that theory is that what would possess them to reference the Judith Hiams 275 00:19:51.519 --> 00:19:56.359 case. How would someone in Omaha even have found out about it to begin 276 00:19:56.440 --> 00:20:02.039 with? It just seems like the most inexplicably random starting point for a practical 277 00:20:02.160 --> 00:20:07.079 joke. It really does. I mean the fact that they picked this radio 278 00:20:07.160 --> 00:20:10.839 host who has no connection. They even reached out to him and he's like, 279 00:20:10.839 --> 00:20:12.960 I don't know, I do not know what's happening. People do not 280 00:20:14.079 --> 00:20:18.359 have my personal number because I'm a public figure. It does just raise this 281 00:20:18.519 --> 00:20:22.079 question again as like what did you gain from this? What information is coming 282 00:20:22.079 --> 00:20:26.759 from this? Like I get you want the case back in the public eye, 283 00:20:26.880 --> 00:20:32.039 but is this creating this course that distracts people from the actual details of 284 00:20:32.079 --> 00:20:34.680 what could have happened to her. I'm just thinking, I feel like a 285 00:20:34.759 --> 00:20:37.319 peal to phone in a tip about an unsolved coal case. I'm just going 286 00:20:37.359 --> 00:20:42.640 to phone them and impersonate Howard Stern because that makes total sense. It's exactly 287 00:20:42.759 --> 00:20:47.799 right. I would believe you. It's so weird though, like it. 288 00:20:47.960 --> 00:20:51.240 I mean, in today's world, when you got access to all of this 289 00:20:51.319 --> 00:20:55.480 information, it would make sense that you could come up with information on pretty 290 00:20:55.519 --> 00:20:57.279 much any cold case. Like Robin said, you know, you can go 291 00:20:57.319 --> 00:21:03.000 to the Charlie Project. Whatever nameless is not nameless, but like the Charlie 292 00:21:03.000 --> 00:21:04.880 Project, and you would be able to find all of these different active cold 293 00:21:04.880 --> 00:21:10.480 cases. And back then in nineteen sixty five, unless you actually had physical 294 00:21:10.559 --> 00:21:14.119 files, how would you ever find that information? I mean, aside from 295 00:21:14.119 --> 00:21:18.359 maybe a missing poster. And of course they're probably not going to be circulating 296 00:21:18.359 --> 00:21:22.880 missing posters because they pretty much accepted she's probably dead and the case is essentially 297 00:21:22.880 --> 00:21:26.000 closed. So I don't know why one would be circulated all the way in 298 00:21:26.039 --> 00:21:30.200 Nebraska for a case that happened in Florida. Of course, the confusion was 299 00:21:30.240 --> 00:21:33.640 compounded two days later when Captain Sheer received the anonymous call from the woman who 300 00:21:33.720 --> 00:21:38.119 said Judy Hymes is alive and she lives in Omaha. Since the chances of 301 00:21:38.160 --> 00:21:42.920 two completely unrelated people deciding to phone up the police about an obscure, twenty 302 00:21:42.960 --> 00:21:47.759 four year old cold case are pretty much non existent, it's a given that 303 00:21:47.799 --> 00:21:51.720 both the male and female callers were in on this together, but who knows 304 00:21:51.720 --> 00:21:55.039 what their motives might have been. If these calls took place today, it 305 00:21:55.039 --> 00:21:57.599 would probably be easy to trace them, or at least determine where they originated 306 00:21:57.640 --> 00:22:02.039 from. Back in nineteen ninety, they didn't have the technology for that. 307 00:22:02.759 --> 00:22:07.519 This call prompted investigators to explore the possibility that Judy really was alive and living 308 00:22:07.519 --> 00:22:11.640 in Omaha after all these years, or that perhaps the female caller was even 309 00:22:11.720 --> 00:22:15.680 Judy herself. They given all the evidence that Judy went to have an abortion 310 00:22:15.720 --> 00:22:19.079 and never returned, it seems very doubtful that she was still alive. I 311 00:22:19.200 --> 00:22:23.039 know. They briefly explored the possibility that even if Judy survived the abortion, 312 00:22:23.319 --> 00:22:26.680 she might have felt the stigma was so large that she decided to cut off 313 00:22:26.720 --> 00:22:32.039 all contact with her family and friends and start a new life somewhere. But 314 00:22:32.119 --> 00:22:36.440 it seemed very doubtful that Judy would remain in hiding that long, particularly once 315 00:22:36.480 --> 00:22:40.960 abortion was legalized, not to mention that she left behind twenty five thousand dollars 316 00:22:40.960 --> 00:22:44.240 in a bank account that was never touched. So, in spite of what 317 00:22:44.279 --> 00:22:48.160 the caller said, I seriously doubt that Judy was alive and living in Omaha 318 00:22:48.279 --> 00:22:52.240 in nineteen ninety But we still have to ask why Omaha. On the off 319 00:22:52.319 --> 00:22:56.279 chance that the caller was a tipster who legitimately believed that she might have seen 320 00:22:56.359 --> 00:23:02.039 Judy Hyams in Omaha, why didn't she say anything else besides repeating the same 321 00:23:02.119 --> 00:23:04.720 sentence? And again, if this was nothing more than a prank, what 322 00:23:04.880 --> 00:23:10.480 compelled them to select that particular case? Was there any significance to the fact 323 00:23:10.480 --> 00:23:15.000 that a Coral Gables police captain had been in Nebraska days earlier. I know 324 00:23:15.079 --> 00:23:18.039 this is nothing more than a coincidence, but here's an interesting piece of trivia 325 00:23:18.119 --> 00:23:22.880 I thought was worth mentioning. At the time these calls took place, the 326 00:23:22.960 --> 00:23:26.440 police chief in Omaha was James Skinner, who resigned in nineteen ninety seven and 327 00:23:26.599 --> 00:23:30.519 instantly became police chief in another city. And take a wild guess, wear 328 00:23:32.839 --> 00:23:36.440 Coral Gables I don't think that is any bearing on this case, but it's 329 00:23:36.480 --> 00:23:41.160 still pretty crazy. It's absolutely crazy. I don't think it probably has any 330 00:23:41.200 --> 00:23:45.279 bearing on this but it's fascinating to make those links at all. I am 331 00:23:45.519 --> 00:23:51.319 so stuck on this idea that in nineteen sixty five she had twenty five thousand 332 00:23:51.319 --> 00:23:55.960 dollars from her divorce settlement, and that, like you said, abortion became 333 00:23:56.200 --> 00:24:03.000 legalized very shortly after her disappear parents, And so why would she stay away 334 00:24:03.160 --> 00:24:06.839 from her family. Her family never said that there was an issue. They 335 00:24:06.960 --> 00:24:10.200 never said that they had gotten onto her, that they had judged her, 336 00:24:10.200 --> 00:24:15.079 that they had made her feel lesser than. And it's very sad to think 337 00:24:15.119 --> 00:24:17.680 that, you know, it would be normal for her to get up and 338 00:24:17.720 --> 00:24:19.960 start her life somewhere else. I just don't think that could have happened. 339 00:24:21.000 --> 00:24:23.799 I think she was trying to get herself out of a situation that she didn't 340 00:24:23.839 --> 00:24:26.160 need to be in or want to be in, and she was learning that 341 00:24:26.200 --> 00:24:29.960 this man does not care about her and it's not going to be there for 342 00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:33.240 her. And yet she's successful. She's twenty two, she's working at the 343 00:24:33.279 --> 00:24:38.039 hospital, she's building a life for herself. This decision as heavy and as 344 00:24:38.119 --> 00:24:41.160 hard as that would be for someone to make, should not have ended her 345 00:24:41.200 --> 00:24:45.960 life, should not have changed her life in this kind of fashion, And 346 00:24:45.079 --> 00:24:48.000 I don't think it would have put her in hiding. I definitely do not. 347 00:24:48.559 --> 00:24:51.640 If she was going to run away and start a new life, she 348 00:24:51.640 --> 00:24:56.559 would have taken out twenty five thousand dollars, not three hundred dollars. Now. 349 00:24:56.599 --> 00:25:00.799 The third call Captain Shira received from an anonymous FBI informant, I think 350 00:25:00.839 --> 00:25:06.119 that one was legitimate and had no connection to the previous two calls. Remember 351 00:25:06.160 --> 00:25:11.559 those calls prompted Sheer to reopen the investigation, and an article about Judy's disappearance 352 00:25:11.599 --> 00:25:15.039 soon ran in the papers which mentioned George had You? So the informant could 353 00:25:15.039 --> 00:25:18.440 have easily read about the case. So I had You's name and felt compelled 354 00:25:18.440 --> 00:25:22.160 to phone in a tip. As you recall, the caller claimed that he'd 355 00:25:22.160 --> 00:25:26.440 recently spent several weeks with had You in Hungary and provided a phone number, 356 00:25:27.000 --> 00:25:30.960 Even though they couldn't find had You. Interpool confirmed that the phone number was 357 00:25:32.000 --> 00:25:34.400 linked to someone with that name, So I believe the caller was telling the 358 00:25:34.400 --> 00:25:40.079 truth. Investigators found it very unlikely that had you himself was behind any of 359 00:25:40.119 --> 00:25:42.880 the phone calls, and I definitely agree with that, as I'm sure Had 360 00:25:42.960 --> 00:25:47.960 You had a very distinct Hungarian accent which would have stuck out if he was 361 00:25:48.000 --> 00:25:51.720 one of the callers. To this day, Had You has never been found, 362 00:25:51.799 --> 00:25:55.039 and if he's still alive somewhere, he would be in his nineties by 363 00:25:55.079 --> 00:26:00.000 now. That's wild. Yeah, he was never going to be held account 364 00:26:00.519 --> 00:26:03.160 or be able to tell his side of the story. I mean he ran 365 00:26:03.359 --> 00:26:07.039 because of the laws and the regulations at that time. He was also operating 366 00:26:07.039 --> 00:26:11.039 without a license, and who knows if he really was an established doctor in 367 00:26:11.119 --> 00:26:15.559 his home country of Hungary. So he had to leave. He had to 368 00:26:15.599 --> 00:26:21.000 remove himself from the situation. But it's sad because had they been able to 369 00:26:21.000 --> 00:26:23.279 say, you know, did you see her? What happened? Or you 370 00:26:23.279 --> 00:26:26.519 know, can we help you get out of this, it's we might have 371 00:26:26.559 --> 00:26:30.359 had more information. He might have confessed to hurting her, you know what 372 00:26:30.400 --> 00:26:34.200 I mean. But there's zero way. We don't have a way to reach 373 00:26:34.240 --> 00:26:37.359 him. He's not alive anymore. I doubt he's in his nineties, and 374 00:26:37.799 --> 00:26:41.799 it's just a missing piece of the puzzle. And I think it's sad is 375 00:26:41.799 --> 00:26:45.119 that, for all we know, he could have gone back to practicing illegal 376 00:26:45.160 --> 00:26:49.359 abortions after he returned to Hungary, meaning that other young woman such as Judy 377 00:26:49.400 --> 00:26:53.960 could have found themselves in the same situation and wound up maybe dying of complications 378 00:26:55.000 --> 00:26:56.960 on the table and no one ever found out about it. So it's almost 379 00:26:57.000 --> 00:27:00.279 the same as like letting a murderer get away, because you have a guy 380 00:27:00.319 --> 00:27:04.039 who is a very unstable doctor who has the potential to harm people, but 381 00:27:04.160 --> 00:27:07.920 because the statute of limitations have expired for his previous crimes, he was never 382 00:27:07.960 --> 00:27:11.839 brought to justice. Is he a doctor or did he just like say, 383 00:27:12.039 --> 00:27:15.880 I was a doctor in my home country, and like how would they ever 384 00:27:15.000 --> 00:27:18.720 have checked records back then? Like he could have been a barber for all 385 00:27:18.759 --> 00:27:22.680 we know. I mean, it's not the first time we've come across a 386 00:27:22.720 --> 00:27:26.759 shady doctor where we've questioned their credentials. Can you think of who I'm thinking 387 00:27:26.759 --> 00:27:32.000 of, Robin follow me a molock? Yes, Yes, the guy had 388 00:27:32.039 --> 00:27:33.839 three gunshot wounds to his chest and he was like, oh, that's a 389 00:27:33.880 --> 00:27:37.680 self inflicted gunwound. A whole bunch of ones, like they smoked thirty marijuana 390 00:27:37.720 --> 00:27:41.680 cigarettes and passed on on the railroad tracks. And the guy who lost his 391 00:27:41.759 --> 00:27:44.400 head found a cap dated and he said, the dog gate all, sir, 392 00:27:44.440 --> 00:27:48.319 and the dog ate it. Yeah, he was from Egypt, so 393 00:27:48.359 --> 00:27:52.519 I'm willing to bet maybe he just came to America, said he was a 394 00:27:52.559 --> 00:27:55.519 doctor of no credentials and they gave him the job. He's like, all 395 00:27:55.599 --> 00:28:00.200 learn as I go. No big deal anyway. This series of events led 396 00:28:00.240 --> 00:28:03.319 to the case being featured on Unsolved Mysteries, followed by the anonymous letter being 397 00:28:03.319 --> 00:28:07.960 sent to the Coral Gables PD which detail how Judy died of complications from her 398 00:28:07.960 --> 00:28:11.720 abortion. The police found the letter to be credible, and I concur with 399 00:28:11.759 --> 00:28:15.680 that. Unlike the initial phone calls, this letter came in after the case 400 00:28:15.720 --> 00:28:21.079 had been broadcast on national television, so it not surprised me if someone watched 401 00:28:21.079 --> 00:28:23.599 the episode and felt the need to clear the conscience. Of course, it 402 00:28:23.640 --> 00:28:27.440 seems doubtful that Hadju was the writer, but if the outline scenario from the 403 00:28:27.519 --> 00:28:32.759 letter is true, there were probably other people present when Judy died, such 404 00:28:32.759 --> 00:28:34.759 as a nurse, and we know that at least one mail played a role 405 00:28:34.799 --> 00:28:40.079 in the cover up by driving Judy's car to Atlanta. So the obvious question 406 00:28:40.240 --> 00:28:42.160 is could the writer of the letter been one of the people who made the 407 00:28:42.200 --> 00:28:47.359 phone calls? While there is one woman who might be a potential candidate to 408 00:28:47.400 --> 00:28:51.920 be the infamous, Judy Hymes is alive and she lives in Omaha Collar On 409 00:28:51.960 --> 00:28:56.319 her last episode, we mentioned that in May of nineteen sixty six, Hadju 410 00:28:56.640 --> 00:29:00.880 Jay Anderson Martin and a twenty year old nurse named Donna doo and Rale arrested 411 00:29:00.920 --> 00:29:04.200 for the roles in another abortion case. I have no idea what actually happened 412 00:29:04.200 --> 00:29:08.160 to Donna Dowan or if she served in EGIL time, but since this occurred 413 00:29:08.200 --> 00:29:11.920 only eight months after Judy went missing, I think there's a good chance that 414 00:29:12.079 --> 00:29:18.440 Duan was hot Ju's nurse when Judy came in for her abortion. For sure, 415 00:29:18.640 --> 00:29:22.200 I think that's absolutely possible. It's sad to me when you think about 416 00:29:22.240 --> 00:29:26.240 these people who knew her like that. You know, she used that fake 417 00:29:26.359 --> 00:29:30.000 name to get her pregnancy test done, and the woman who did it, 418 00:29:30.039 --> 00:29:33.799 she said I knew her, And she's watching as this poor girl is struggling 419 00:29:33.839 --> 00:29:37.440 to try to get a pregnancy test to see if she's pregnant, and they're 420 00:29:37.480 --> 00:29:44.240 watching this girl they went to nursing school with struggle, and everyone's just looking 421 00:29:44.319 --> 00:29:45.680 the other way and saying, like, I hope she gets the help she 422 00:29:45.720 --> 00:29:51.039 needs, but I hope she survives that. At the same time, even 423 00:29:51.039 --> 00:29:55.599 if Donnaduan wasn't the caller, she might be the best candidate to have written 424 00:29:55.599 --> 00:29:59.519 the anonymous letter, since it sounds like the writer had first hand knowledge of 425 00:29:59.519 --> 00:30:03.319 the event. But if Duan was the caller, why would she be stating 426 00:30:03.359 --> 00:30:07.759 that Judy was still alive. She may have been trying to throw investigators off 427 00:30:07.759 --> 00:30:12.400 the track, but it's possible that seeing Judy's story on national TV was her 428 00:30:12.400 --> 00:30:17.480 breaking point and finally compelled her to send in a letter with the complete truth. 429 00:30:18.039 --> 00:30:21.759 However, if Donna Dewan was the female caller, then who was the 430 00:30:21.839 --> 00:30:26.720 male caller who impersonated Steve Brown? Was the male caller directly involved in what 431 00:30:26.799 --> 00:30:30.839 happened to Judy? Or could Duena put someone else she knew up to making 432 00:30:30.839 --> 00:30:33.640 the call because she hadn't yet worked up the courage to phone anybody about the 433 00:30:33.640 --> 00:30:37.480 case on her own. I suppose the one thing I just can't get a 434 00:30:37.519 --> 00:30:41.400 handle on is if either or both of these callers did have knowledge about what 435 00:30:41.480 --> 00:30:48.000 transpired what suddenly compelled them to come forward twenty four years after the fact. 436 00:30:48.839 --> 00:30:52.160 Well, in September nineteen eighty nine, the Miami Herald published an extensive article 437 00:30:52.240 --> 00:30:57.319 titled Abortion Before Choice, which talked about the history of abortion in Florida before 438 00:30:57.480 --> 00:31:03.599 Roe v. Wade and a brief reference to Judith Hyam's disappearance, citing it 439 00:31:03.640 --> 00:31:07.680 is a possible example of an illegal abortion gone horribly wrong. Since this article 440 00:31:07.799 --> 00:31:11.920 was published six months before the phone calls, could someone have read it and 441 00:31:11.960 --> 00:31:17.599 seen Judy's name and felt a desire to come clean. I think it's very 442 00:31:17.599 --> 00:31:19.920 possible. I think it's possible they saw her name and wanted to quote, 443 00:31:19.920 --> 00:31:23.480 come clean or tell something that someone had told them. Remember, a lot 444 00:31:23.480 --> 00:31:29.839 of time had passed, so people change relationships, people get safe in relationships, 445 00:31:29.880 --> 00:31:33.480 and information can come out. That's the one thing that's good in a 446 00:31:33.519 --> 00:31:37.160 cold case. Right time is your enemy and eventually becomes your friend. So 447 00:31:37.200 --> 00:31:40.440 it is possible that that happened. It's possible that now that it's legal and 448 00:31:40.640 --> 00:31:45.519 things have happened right that someone felt more confident. But it's also very possible 449 00:31:45.559 --> 00:31:48.839 that someone saw that same newspaper or found this case on a Reddit thread, 450 00:31:49.000 --> 00:31:55.160 or saw the Unsolved Mysteries case or whatever and decided that they're going to make 451 00:31:55.240 --> 00:32:00.480 these phone calls. I don't know again, why Steve Brown was chosen. 452 00:32:00.759 --> 00:32:04.640 I don't know why Donna Douan wouldn't just come forward and says it's me, 453 00:32:05.000 --> 00:32:07.880 like, this is information that you need to know, right And if Judy 454 00:32:08.000 --> 00:32:12.960 was really alive, surely you would be fighting to get more information to her 455 00:32:13.000 --> 00:32:16.920 family, to get more information to authorities who could help bring this to rest. 456 00:32:17.039 --> 00:32:21.559 Because we're talking about just saying someone's alive. That's a good thing. 457 00:32:21.640 --> 00:32:23.920 You're not gonna get in trouble for that. Why would you hide any more 458 00:32:23.920 --> 00:32:30.119 information from the family and the authorities. And what's interesting is we had all 459 00:32:30.160 --> 00:32:35.160 these references to Nebraska and Omaha on these calls to Captain Sheer, but I 460 00:32:35.200 --> 00:32:37.440 don't know if the calls actually originated from Omaha, Like, for all we 461 00:32:37.480 --> 00:32:42.640 know, maybe they were calling from Florida and just making that up because I 462 00:32:42.680 --> 00:32:45.440 don't think they had the technology to trace the calls back then. And I 463 00:32:45.440 --> 00:32:50.279 don't know how likely it is that someone from Nebraska would have seen this Miami 464 00:32:50.359 --> 00:32:53.880 Herald article which published in September of ninety nine, and learned about Juda's case. 465 00:32:54.240 --> 00:32:58.200 But if someone in Florida just happened to see it, then maybe they 466 00:32:58.279 --> 00:33:01.799 just made up this story and decided to pick up Omaha or mentioned Nebraska because 467 00:33:01.839 --> 00:33:07.400 they knew Captain Shear had just been there and thought it might register. However, 468 00:33:07.440 --> 00:33:09.920 it's also possible that the whole thing was orchestrated not by someone who had 469 00:33:09.960 --> 00:33:15.240 direct involvement in Judy's disappearance, but by someone close to her. But by 470 00:33:15.279 --> 00:33:19.680 someone close to her who was motivated to get the investigation reopened after seeing her 471 00:33:19.759 --> 00:33:22.680 name in the papers, and since there was an all new team of investigators 472 00:33:22.720 --> 00:33:27.599 working for the Coral Gables PD at this point, they wanted to do something 473 00:33:27.680 --> 00:33:30.480 unique in order to plant the seeds about this case with them. Perhaps they 474 00:33:30.480 --> 00:33:35.839 somehow found out that Captain Sheer was traveling to Nebraska for a lecture and decided 475 00:33:35.880 --> 00:33:38.759 to come up with a very odd way to capture his attention by somehow tying 476 00:33:38.839 --> 00:33:44.000 Judy's case to Omaha. Because even though Sheer hadn't heard of the case before, 477 00:33:44.319 --> 00:33:47.279 the strange nature of the phone calls definitely got him intrigued enough to reopen 478 00:33:47.359 --> 00:33:52.640 the investigation. If the caller's intention was to bring a forgotten cold case back 479 00:33:52.640 --> 00:33:55.720 into the spotlight, then they certainly succeeded. But once again I have to 480 00:33:55.759 --> 00:34:00.759 reiterate what an ass backwards way to do things. Even if someone did read 481 00:34:00.759 --> 00:34:06.039 about Judy's case in the newspapers, what would compel them to impersonate a radio 482 00:34:06.119 --> 00:34:09.960 host from over sixteen hundred miles away. Unfortunately, I don't think we'll ever 483 00:34:10.039 --> 00:34:15.079 know the answers anyway. The mystery of the phone calls is such a jigsaw 484 00:34:15.079 --> 00:34:19.960 puzzle that I'm afraid the victim in this story sometimes gets overlooked. Sadly, 485 00:34:20.239 --> 00:34:23.119 I am about ninety nine percent certain that Judith Heimes died because of an abortion 486 00:34:23.199 --> 00:34:27.840 gone wrong, and if the story had taken place a decade later, I'm 487 00:34:27.880 --> 00:34:30.719 sure the circumstances of how she attempted to handle the situation would have been a 488 00:34:30.719 --> 00:34:35.559 lot different. If she did wind up in bis Game Bay, they'll probably 489 00:34:35.599 --> 00:34:38.280 never be able to recover her body, and since the police officially closed the 490 00:34:38.320 --> 00:34:43.519 investigation following the anonymous letter, there really isn't much more they can do, 491 00:34:44.079 --> 00:34:47.679 and less Judy was flat out murdered than the statute of limitations for whatever crimes 492 00:34:47.719 --> 00:34:52.000 took place have long expired. But whatever the motive was for the phone calls, 493 00:34:52.119 --> 00:34:57.440 at the very least they did rescue Judy's case from obscurity and gave her 494 00:34:57.559 --> 00:35:00.800 story a bit more closure than it otherwise would of receipt. All that being 495 00:35:00.800 --> 00:35:06.000 said, if you happen to know any information about the disappearance of Judith Hiames 496 00:35:06.039 --> 00:35:09.840 which could provide more concrete answers about what actually happened to her, please contact 497 00:35:09.840 --> 00:35:14.719 the appropriate authorities. But don't say Judy Hymes is alive and living in Omaha, 498 00:35:14.760 --> 00:35:19.079 because that will just confuse everything. So Jules, actually, any final 499 00:35:19.079 --> 00:35:22.159 thoughts on this case? You know, I have to really quick ask, 500 00:35:22.320 --> 00:35:27.199 do you guys think because she was someone who was going for an abortion, 501 00:35:27.239 --> 00:35:30.079 she was pregnant, and she was not married in nineteen sixty five, she 502 00:35:30.159 --> 00:35:35.599 was divorced in nineteen sixty five, do you think there was a like she's 503 00:35:35.639 --> 00:35:39.960 a lesser victim and that she wasn't give any initial attention because people didn't think 504 00:35:40.000 --> 00:35:45.039 she was worthy of it. That is possible. I mean I looked through 505 00:35:45.079 --> 00:35:49.760 the newspaper archives in her case did get a decent amount of coverage back in 506 00:35:49.760 --> 00:35:52.239 the nineteen sixties, and they did seem to take it seriously that the State 507 00:35:52.280 --> 00:35:57.280 Attorney's office looked into the investigation. They did try to bring in like Lucian 508 00:35:57.360 --> 00:36:00.639 Gordon and George Hadju for questioning, but it just seems that after hawd you 509 00:36:00.840 --> 00:36:05.000 fled the country, they didn't seem to have a vested interest in trying to 510 00:36:05.039 --> 00:36:07.280 find him or doing anything else. So I guess it is possible that they 511 00:36:07.320 --> 00:36:10.199 figured, well, we've done everything we can, but the abortion doctor is 512 00:36:10.239 --> 00:36:14.559 gone. Nothing else we can do, and that's why she was forgotten about 513 00:36:14.599 --> 00:36:19.920 for twenty four years. This case is really sad. I mean every case 514 00:36:19.960 --> 00:36:24.079 we cover is I spoke about my own personal experience, and when Robin sent 515 00:36:24.199 --> 00:36:28.360 this to me and I had to go through it, it was really heartbreaking 516 00:36:28.400 --> 00:36:30.760 for me because I saw the parallels in my own life. You know, 517 00:36:30.920 --> 00:36:35.039 I was dating someone who was a complete asshole at the time too, and 518 00:36:35.400 --> 00:36:38.599 he was involved in a different capacity. But I very well could have seen 519 00:36:38.719 --> 00:36:43.960 my situations spyraling into something that happened to Judith. And she had her whole 520 00:36:43.960 --> 00:36:46.280 life ahead of her, and it sounded like her family was really supportive, 521 00:36:46.280 --> 00:36:50.920 and I do not believe for a second that she ran away to start some 522 00:36:51.039 --> 00:36:54.840 new life because of the stigma attached to abortion. It just doesn't sound like 523 00:36:54.880 --> 00:36:59.960 that's the way that her family was. And even if she had done that, 524 00:37:00.360 --> 00:37:02.760 the fact that she wouldn't have surfaced all of those years later, or 525 00:37:02.840 --> 00:37:06.880 somewhere along the line, her resolve would have weakened, and she thought, 526 00:37:07.079 --> 00:37:09.360 well, maybe my family won't be mad now. Just to believe that she 527 00:37:09.400 --> 00:37:14.559 would be in Nebraska so many years later, the biggest conundrum to be is 528 00:37:14.599 --> 00:37:17.320 who are these people in Nebraska? How do they have this information? And 529 00:37:17.400 --> 00:37:21.679 I think Robin had brought up are I think one of us had brought up 530 00:37:21.679 --> 00:37:27.440 that it had been written about in that article briefly referenced about abortion prior to 531 00:37:27.639 --> 00:37:30.480 rov Wade and how it was a potential illegal abortion gone wrong. Yes, 532 00:37:30.559 --> 00:37:34.880 somebody could have read that, but I also don't think that. It was 533 00:37:34.920 --> 00:37:38.320 also pre internet at that time, so it wasn't like you're reading newspapers online, 534 00:37:38.719 --> 00:37:42.920 so you'd think it would more be a It would more likely be a 535 00:37:42.920 --> 00:37:45.719 local person who would read that, So somebody in Nebraska. It's just all 536 00:37:45.840 --> 00:37:51.559 very confusing, But I do believe that the most likely confusion is that poor 537 00:37:51.639 --> 00:37:55.599 Judith died in darkness on this dirty table of Haju, and he escaped without 538 00:37:55.679 --> 00:38:01.159 having to pay for what he did. And all the while we've got Lucy 539 00:38:01.239 --> 00:38:07.719 and Gordon, who was just really disappointing as a human being in the way 540 00:38:07.760 --> 00:38:13.760 that he handled himself before and after Judith's disappearance. It is so sad to 541 00:38:13.800 --> 00:38:19.920 me because again, when you have a missing person in nineteen sixty five, 542 00:38:20.079 --> 00:38:22.559 right, we didn't even have the technology to try to network and link link 543 00:38:22.719 --> 00:38:29.519 ideas and look at where she might be. Her family has no idea where 544 00:38:29.639 --> 00:38:34.119 she is and what happened to her. And those are the cases for me 545 00:38:34.480 --> 00:38:37.280 that I could not bear as a mother, as a sister, as a 546 00:38:37.320 --> 00:38:42.000 friend to go, what if something's happening to her bad? What if she 547 00:38:42.199 --> 00:38:45.400 is alive? Is that worse in certain ways? You know, if she's 548 00:38:45.440 --> 00:38:47.599 alive, why would she not love me enough to call me? And then 549 00:38:47.760 --> 00:38:52.840 also of my brain would go, there's no way she's alive. She's deceased. 550 00:38:52.920 --> 00:38:55.519 And I don't even have the ability to go visit a grave site. 551 00:38:55.559 --> 00:39:00.480 I can't go love on Judy and talk to her and she's safe, right, 552 00:39:00.519 --> 00:39:04.800 And then her body is safe. And so all those things, to 553 00:39:04.880 --> 00:39:10.239 me make these missing person cases so devastating, and Judy's seems so avoidable. 554 00:39:10.360 --> 00:39:15.800 It sounds like Judy had so much going for her. All she needed was 555 00:39:15.920 --> 00:39:20.920 someone to say, Oh, you're with someone who's not taking care of you, 556 00:39:20.920 --> 00:39:22.960 you're with someone who's dangerous, You're with somebody who's not going to support 557 00:39:23.000 --> 00:39:28.840 you. Judy didn't have many options, and Judy felt like, I'm just 558 00:39:28.880 --> 00:39:30.920 going to ask people I trust. Remember, she reached out to doctors that 559 00:39:31.000 --> 00:39:36.880 she trusted to help her, and we never heard from Judy again. So 560 00:39:36.920 --> 00:39:40.360 it is devastating. I'm just heartbroken by it, and I wish, I 561 00:39:40.400 --> 00:39:45.519 wish, I wish we could get some answers, even from our doctor and 562 00:39:45.679 --> 00:39:49.920 hungry quote unquote doctor in hungry. I wish there had been a way to 563 00:39:49.920 --> 00:39:52.280 get information from him, to say what really happened? Right, we can't 564 00:39:52.320 --> 00:39:57.119 extradite you, we're not extraditing you, but what happened to her? And 565 00:39:57.480 --> 00:40:00.920 sadly, I don't think we're ever going to know. Yeah, like I 566 00:40:00.960 --> 00:40:06.119 said in our previous episode, that this case is the mystery involved in this 567 00:40:06.159 --> 00:40:09.119 case, it's not the destination, it's the journey because the mystery itself is 568 00:40:09.320 --> 00:40:14.400 pretty straightforward. It's more of a tragedy rather than a baffling cold case, 569 00:40:14.440 --> 00:40:17.679 because it just seems obvious that Judy died on the operating table during the abortion 570 00:40:17.719 --> 00:40:22.559 and the responsible parties covered it up. And like I just said, if 571 00:40:22.599 --> 00:40:27.199 she had gotten pregnant just a couple of years later after ROVERSUS way, then 572 00:40:27.239 --> 00:40:30.320 she wouldn't have had to take these measures, could have gotten the legal abortion, 573 00:40:30.639 --> 00:40:32.519 and she never would have become a missing person and gone on living her 574 00:40:32.559 --> 00:40:36.639 life, which is why this is just so sad. But of course, 575 00:40:36.679 --> 00:40:39.599 the reason that this case became so memorable and was featured on US All Mysteries 576 00:40:39.679 --> 00:40:44.360 is because of the strange phone calls, and I am inclined to believe that 577 00:40:44.440 --> 00:40:47.079 whoever did them might have been someone who had knowledge about this case and just 578 00:40:47.280 --> 00:40:52.039 had some sort of conscience. They wanted to reveal the truth about what happened 579 00:40:52.039 --> 00:40:54.559 to Judy. They wanted the police to reopen the investigation. I mean, 580 00:40:54.599 --> 00:40:59.599 I still don't know why they would use these methods by impersonating a radio host 581 00:40:59.639 --> 00:41:02.840 in the ASCA, but whatever their intention was, it did work, because 582 00:41:04.440 --> 00:41:07.119 if this hadn't happened, the case would have been forgotten about forever. It 583 00:41:07.159 --> 00:41:10.639 never would have been on national television on Unsolved Mysteries, and we wouldn't be 584 00:41:10.679 --> 00:41:15.079 talking about it on podcast today. So I consider this pretty much like a 585 00:41:15.199 --> 00:41:20.000 solved unsolved mystery where I'm convinced I know what happened, but it's still It 586 00:41:20.119 --> 00:41:22.360 is never complete when you don't have the victims remains and you don't know the 587 00:41:22.400 --> 00:41:27.360 full truth about what happened. But I am glad that these phone calls took 588 00:41:27.360 --> 00:41:30.760 place because at least Judith Hime's story could be remembered all these years later and 589 00:41:30.840 --> 00:41:35.280 can also function as a cautionary tale about all the bad things that can happen 590 00:41:35.320 --> 00:41:39.440 when abortion is not made available to women in her position. So I am 591 00:41:39.480 --> 00:41:44.960 hoping that her family will receive justice someday. Robin, do you want to 592 00:41:44.960 --> 00:41:47.280 tell us a little bit about the Trail Went Cold Patreon? Yes, The 593 00:41:47.320 --> 00:41:51.880 Trail Cold Patreon has been around for three years now, and we offer these 594 00:41:51.920 --> 00:41:57.559 standard bonus features like early ad free episodes, and I also send out stickers 595 00:41:57.599 --> 00:42:00.840 and signed thank you cards to anyone who's signs up with us on Patreon if 596 00:42:00.840 --> 00:42:07.079 you join our five dollar tier Tier two. We also offer monthly bonus episodes 597 00:42:07.079 --> 00:42:10.519 in which I talk about cases which are not featured on The Trail Went Cold's 598 00:42:10.519 --> 00:42:15.719 original feed, so they're exclusive to Patreon and if you join our highest tier, 599 00:42:15.760 --> 00:42:19.159 Tier three, the ten dollar Tier. One of the features we offer 600 00:42:19.440 --> 00:42:23.599 is a audio commentary track over classic episodes of Unsaw Mysteries, where you can 601 00:42:23.639 --> 00:42:29.840 download an audio file and then root up the original Unsaw Mysteries episode on Amazon 602 00:42:29.880 --> 00:42:34.440 Prime or YouTube and play it with my audio commentary playing in the background, 603 00:42:34.440 --> 00:42:37.920 where I just provide trivia and factoids about the cases featured in this episode. 604 00:42:38.159 --> 00:42:43.239 And incidentally, the very first episode that I did a commentary track over was 605 00:42:43.280 --> 00:42:46.559 the episode featuring this case. So if you want to download a commentary track 606 00:42:46.559 --> 00:42:51.840 in which I make more smartass remarks about juwel kaylor than be sure to join 607 00:42:51.920 --> 00:42:53.679 Tier three. So I want to let you know a little bit about the 608 00:42:53.760 --> 00:42:58.679 Jewels and Ashley. Patreon, so there's early ad free episodes of The Path 609 00:42:58.760 --> 00:43:02.079 Went Chili Got Our Path Went Chili minis, which are always over an hour, 610 00:43:02.159 --> 00:43:05.880 so they're not very many, but they're just too short to turn into 611 00:43:05.960 --> 00:43:08.599 a series, and we're really enjoying doing those, so we hope you'll check 612 00:43:08.639 --> 00:43:13.320 out those patreons will link them in the show notes. So I want to 613 00:43:13.360 --> 00:43:15.239 thank you all for listening, and any chance you have to share us on 614 00:43:15.280 --> 00:43:20.079 social media with a friend or to rate and review is greatly appreciate it. 615 00:43:20.199 --> 00:43:22.760 You can email us at the pathwent Chili at gmail dot com. You can 616 00:43:22.800 --> 00:43:27.400 reach us on Twitter at the Pathwin. So until next time, be sure 617 00:43:27.400 --> 00:43:30.880 to bundle up because cold trails and chili pass call for warm clothing. Music 618 00:43:30.920 --> 00:43:34.760 by Paul Rich from the podcast Cold Callers Comedy