WEBVTT

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Canner get it man for what we
got going on tonight. Welcome back to

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Calling All Beings. I'm your host
DJ, back from Austin, t X,

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where our special guest is from,
and we are here have a very

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special episode one month waiting, and
I'm gonna tell you this one's gonna be

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worth waiting for when you see who
we've got. And I know because you're

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here, I know you know you
got so before we do any of that,

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let's introduce the executive producer and technical
director of Calling All Beings, My

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man, my brother, the co
conspirator in fun, entertaining and interesting UAP

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talk Monee. Nathan. What's up
everybody? How's everybody doing? Happy Monday?

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Very excited for this one. Like
you said, I've been waiting a

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little bit to have this show,
but we've made the impossible possible. We've

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got the right guest for that tonight, so dripping with irony. I love

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it. Right there, just below
Nathan is the money Nathan. Right there

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is the researcher and soul and keystone
of CAB, the one, the lovely,

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the talented, the one and only
Debs. How are you, Debs?

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I'm doing great. I'm happy that
we can update the archive. There's

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another one. I love it.
I love it. And you know,

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Debs is kind of like a Brazilian
barbecue man because she's always bringing something to

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the table always, and you know
what she brought this time. She done

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brought this homegirl right there working on
her own PhD O DOUBLEG. Really smart

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and we call she is. You
know, she's our prospect right in this

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one percent cab gang. She's our
prospect and she is none other than Courtney

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Connected. Hi, Hi, everybody, thanks for having me back. I'm

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excited about being here on the panel
tonight with doctor Jeffrey Kreipel. She just

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announced that the man himself, the
chair of Religious Studies and Thought at Rice

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University, the man who is the
caretaker, the curator of the archives of

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the mostly impossible but possibly possible,
the man himself, doctor Jeffrey Criper Man,

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Doctor Cripel, I am so not
as cool as you all are.

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Oh you are so much cooler man. Oh no, no, I am

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boring compared to you all. You
know what, you're our friend, James

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I and Doley is like this guy, doctor jeff you know you've got to

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have him on. I was like
would you like give us like, would

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you like give us like the go
ahead, you know, would you tell

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Jeff we're okay? And he's like
yeah, I was like, dude,

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done. After the talk, I'm
like, yes, we definitely want him

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on calling all beings. And last
time you were amazing. In this time,

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I know you'll be equally amazing.
And that kind of, like Jeff

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kind of brings me to like the
first thing, which is for those of

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you who are PhDs in this topic, it's sort of there's a lot of

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pressure. You know, people have
you on their show and they want answers.

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They're sort of doing the Jack Nicholson
you know kind of thing. They

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want the truth, you know,
all this kind of stuff, and they

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want you to unlock these mysteries of
the unexplained. And I thought of you

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the other day. Actually, I
was in the in the grocery store and

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I sort of bought that Dave's Natural
bread and I came home and I was

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thinking of you, and it it
begat the first question, and the question

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was you know, you you you
have this sort of organic bread and you

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you take the little white thing off
after you untie it, and then you

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can never find that that fastener.
So I'm wondering what happens to that fastener.

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Jeff, I don't I don't know. I really don't explain it.

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No, No, I don't know. Something's happening to it, and we

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just we just don't know. Maybe
Sean Kirkpatrick, like the sock Dyer,

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it just it just disappears. Yeah, it's gonna yeah, I'm gonna tell

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you one for real, Jeff,
all kidding aside, I sleep with a

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mouthguard obviously to keep my teeth from
grinding. And if I don't put it

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in a mouthguard case it I've had
two of them literally disappear, and I

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have three cats in the house.
Full disclosure, I do not know what's

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happened those mouth guards. So now
it goes in the case every day.

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So anyway, all right, let
me turn you over to Money Nathan for

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a serious question while I kind of
regather myself here. Okay, all right,

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that was that was incredible. I
just want to say thank you for

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that. So, Jeff, it's
great to have you back with this.

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So we really had a great time
with you last time. I wondered kind

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of how you're doing right, So
the more that you've been out there in

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the space. The more that you've
been talking about, you know, the

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impossible things that clearly do happen in
the human experience, you're probably hearing more

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impossible things, the more impossible sounding
things. How are you navigating kind of

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the probably the deluge of information that
you're dealing with now in that space.

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Not well. I mean, my
sense is that it's overwhelming that you know,

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people, people are people have these
experiences all the time, and when

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you speak about in public, and
when you try to try to do this

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in public, then people write you, of course, and I get all

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of these long emails and I can't
answer them, Nathan I. And it's

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not that I can't answer them,
it's just that there's not enough time in

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the day. So my feeling is
that we're in this ocean of impossible experience

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and there's no capacity to really deal
with it and to create a community at

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least yet. Well, and I'm
curious too, And you're in the academic

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community that you're a part of.
Have you heard from more academics who have

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said, oh, you know,
Jeff, you're kind of given me a

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chance to tell you about this story
that I haven't told anybody before. Yeah,

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no, I think I think academics
are First of all, I love

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academics. I think intellectuals are really
cool. I and I think they want

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to talk about these things and they
know that they happen. They don't want

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to do is sound like the tabloids, and so they're looking for a voice,

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or they're looking for language to talk
about things that they know happen all

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the time. And maybe they've had
the experience, maybe their brothers have,

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maybe their mothers have, maybe their
grandmothers have. But there's someone in their

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family, there's someone in their immediate
network, who have had these kinds of

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experiences, and they actually have the
tools. And this is sort of my

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message to them. They have the
tools to talk about these things. And

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particularly this is going to sound silly, but if they have tenure, I

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don't know why they're not talking about
it. I really don't. I tell

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my graduate students not to talk about
it. I don't let them do this

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in a dissertation. Frankly, I
don't because I want them to get a

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job. I want them to get
employed. But once they're employed, they're

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safe, and the academy is a
pretty friendly place for these sorts of questions.

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But you have to you have to
be in it, unfortunately to do

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this. And but once you're in
it, you're in it and you can

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do it. So to do it, that's my message. Love it.

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Yeah, So, first of all, I hope you're archiving all of those

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emails, just like Waitly did with
the letters he got. So, I

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guess I was wondering what would be
next for the archives? Is there going

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to be an evolution because of the
diluge of contact and interest? What will

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be the next stage for the archives? Yeah? So dev the archives.

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I mean, so I've been on
sabbatical all year and I've spent a lot

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of time months really in the archives
and the sense that I get from them

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is a kind of hopelessness or maybe
humility maybe is the better way to put

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it. There's just so much in
there. I don't know how any one

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person can possibly absorb all of that. I mean, there are fifteen collections

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now in the archives. There's well
over a million documents, well over a

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million, and so any one person
who comes to them, I think is

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going to be overwhelmed with just the
amount of data. And so we're kind

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of in this process of anonymizing and
digitalizing and applying some kind of AI to

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the archives that to to sort of, you know, get some sort of

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data out of them that can be
useful. So it's it's frustration, I

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guess is probably what you're hearing dem
or kind of humility or just a sense

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of awe in the sense of the
vastest of it all. I will say

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I felt the same when I saw
all the government documents. There are so

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many, and they're, by the
way side note more than people realized,

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because the CIA, for instance,
was clever and not putting all of them

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in their designated folders. So yeah, I understand. Yeah, I mean,

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so some of our archives are actually
declassified, and they were originally you

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know, classified documents the government,
I mean, the intelligence communities have their

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own reasons for classifying things, and
but those are also public documents that eventually

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become public and become available. But
just becoming available doesn't mean that somehow some

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kind of secret is dumped. You
know, the secret is is embedded in

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the documents, in the data,
but it's not a pair really to any

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particular I mean, you can't just
go in into a letter or a series

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of letters and suddenly find the secret
of the universe. It just it just

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doesn't work like that, Homegirl.
So, I don't know if you've met

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have you met Courtney already? Yes, we have met a couple of times.

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Actually, one at the Archives of
the Impossible on the street as you

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were getting out of your car.
I don't know if you remember that or

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not, but no I don't.
It was wonderful. I mean, there

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was a gathering of us, all
these high level people walking in together.

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It was quite amazing. And then
we also we also met again at the

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Soul Symposium. Okay, yeah,
you'll remember her as the sort of UFO

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interested researcher who should be donating hair
to her host and a colleague meet so

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and by the way, also,
I'm sorry, doctor Craipel, I just

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I have a just a quick follow
up question for you. Nothing you know,

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major in huge depth. But I
remember at the Archives of the Impossible,

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Jacques Fallet gave his wonderful presentation.
He talked about his experience with UFOs

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and he talked about his collection that
was coming into the archive. But I

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remember there was some parameters around it
that they weren't going to be public just

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yet. What was the date again
where they were going to be public and

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what actually was going to be in
his archives if you could just refresh our

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memory. Yeah, so actually Jacques's
collection is what initiated the archives. And

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please just call me Jeff Courtney.
It's okay. I'm a casual person,

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you know Jacques really well. Jock
approached me in twenty fourteen in Berkeley actually,

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and he was asking about how if
I could help him with some kind

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of university archive. And his interest
was basically that yes, his collection could

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go up on the antiquarium market and
fetch a certain amount of dollars, but

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it would just disappear, you know, the into the ether as it were.

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If it came to an archive,
it would be preserved and then future

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researchers could look at it and come
to their own conclusions. But you know,

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Shaq was really concerned about, I
am sure, the information in his

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archive and also his own mortality.
I don't want to speak for him,

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but he put a ten year moratorium
on the collection. And the collection came

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in. It's come in in four
different parts, three parts and in the

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near future or fourth part, and
each of those collections have a ten year

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moratorium on them, So it's complicated
to explain. The first moratorium is up

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in twenty twenty eight, by the
way, and then twenty thirty and you

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know, twenty thirty two or twenty
thirty four, whatever the whatever, the

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ten year moratorium is. So it's
it's complicated that that particular collection is complicated.

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The other thing that we have to
do, because it's the university archive,

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is we have to take it through
something called IRB, which means Institutional

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Review Board. And the IRB is
set up really for medical records and for

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chemistry and biology and these sorts of
disciplines, but we also want to follow

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it very rigorously, and because some
of the archives involve personal information, including

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medical information, we have to be
really careful with some of the collections,

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the John mac collection, which is
our most recent collection. So it's complicated,

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Courtney. That's all I'm going to
say. Although it won't be complicated

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for the far future or the I
guess the near future, it's just complicated

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for us right now. I you
know, before I get to my own

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question, I just want to follow
up on Courtney's because you made me think.

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Both of you made me think of
a tangent here that may be interesting

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given that there's several, as you
said, you know, different iterations.

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I'm assuming that you have had a
chance to see. Okay, so personally,

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what is the most compelling for you? With full knowledge that everyone in

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this panel may be compelled by a
different a different work, or a different

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aspect of it, but what's the
most compelling to you that moves you?

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I think the experiencers. I think
the it's hard, it's hard to locate

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a particular file or a particular document, but just the experiencers who have had

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these encounters and have been ontologically shocked
by them is deeply moving to me.

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I take the experiencers seriously, which
means I think that what they're reporting actually

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happened to them. But I don't
take their experiences at face value. I

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think whatever is whatever they're experiencing,
and they're experiencing in a kind of code.

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So there's a kind of I don't
want to say deceptive quality to the

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phenomenon, but there's a kind of
camouflaged quality to the phenomenon that really strikes

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me as as a as a historian
and a humanist, and the integrity of

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the experience answers, you know,
combined with this sort of deceptive or camouflage

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quality of what they're experiencing is really
what strikes me the most. I think.

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I think that's what compels me most
about the topic as well. Yeah,

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and I wasn't expecting like a specific
case. You answered it exactly the

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way I just you know, the
tangent of it, which genre of it.

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My my personal question for you is
do you think that an opportunity exists

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where perhaps yourself and some of your
colleagues like Diana and others that are from

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their religious studies community, if you
will, could possibly engage with leaders of

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organized religion in search for a message
that they could sort of convey to their

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what would you call them, Nathan, their their individual churches. So I

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know there's a the believers basically the
religious of any different terms for yes,

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So by Diana, I assume you
mean Diana Pasoka, Yes, sir,

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that yes, sir. Yeah.
So Diana's a good friend and a colleague,

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I you know. So there's this
conversation in the study of religion on

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whether the religions can essentially handle what
most people would call disclosure. And there's

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sort of the far spectrum over here. I guess over here now is that

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because of this vertical dimension that the
religions possess, that they're capable of handling

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disclosure. But there's also this this
position over here on the left I guess,

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or the right whatever that is to
you, that they can't handle it,

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and that the metaphysical or the ontological
shock is so great that it's it's

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not it's not translatable into any of
the particular religions. I'm actually more of

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the latter camp. You know,
Diana is more of the former camp.

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I think Diana is more inclined towards
the position that the religions can handle it.

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I'm more inclined to the position that
they can't handle it. And so

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you're Colonel jessp back to the Colonel
esp metaphor. Yeah, I don't know

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if I'm right, but I'm deeply
I guess I'm deeply suspicious of the religions

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themselves. I'd like this vertical dimension. I think they're correct that there's some

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kind of transcendence or some kind of
other reality that's breaking into the human reality.

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So in that sense, I think
the religions are really useful, but

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their content or their specific revelations I
think are largely incompatible with what the UFO

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or the ua P phenomenon is suggesting, and so I guess I'm more skeptical

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of whether they can handle the full, the full brunt of disclosure. And

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of course, disclosure presumes that this
is going to get down a rabbit hole.

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But disclosure presumes that somebody knows the
secret, and and so we're going

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to disclose the secret. I actually
don't think anybody knows the secret. I

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agree. I think that the government
and the military and the intelligence community and

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the religions, I think they're all
essentially hiding their own ignorance around And so

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I'm much more of that camp than
than I am of the Oh, it'll

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be okay, you know, we'll
we'll absorb the revelation. I'm like,

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no, you won't, No,
you won't. To support your point,

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not that you need my support.
But Jim semi Van, who apparently was

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much higher up in the CIA than
I was aware, like operations officer,

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you know, like at that level
of like you know, operations command if

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you will, he said as much. He said, they don't, they

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don't know what this is. They
can't explain it to you, because they

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don't know that, and they don't
like to try to explain things they can't

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explain, which is consistent with what
I know about government. So I mean,

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so, I know, I've met
Jim, and I've spent some days

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with Jim as well, and my
own feeling about the intelligence community and the

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military and the government is that they
have particular tasks that they're concerned about,

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and this this ain't one of them. And so when you know, when

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they say this is not our our
prerogative or this isn't in our so I

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believe them. I think they're correct
about that. I think this is a

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kind of shock to the system,
the sort of this sort of reality system

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that people in habit. And I
don't think it's the job of the government

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or the military or their intelligence to
negotiate our reality as it were. Not

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in the mission statement, Nathan,
go for it, brother, No,

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I doubt there is so, Jeff, I come from a religious background.

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I was in seminary, got the
Samary degree, left the church a long

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time ago, but I grew up
with the historical critical method of analysis of

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the text. I grew up in
a progressive you know, Christian heritage and

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for those of who don't know what
that means. It means, you know,

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kind of looking at the text religious
text with a very critical eye,

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trying to understand the context of the
day and situate that text within the context

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and the and the cultural context of
the time, so that you kind of

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try to view it from how the
people of the day when it was written

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may have understood the text, rather
than taking our sort of current cultural position

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and imposing it upon the text.
And you know, the found that to

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be fairly useful. But that approach
also, at least when I was growing

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up, really discarded a lot of
the more phenomenological aspects of religious text.

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Here, we are now kind of
at a place in the twenty first century

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where we're beginning to re examine some
of these accounts and I think take them

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with a little bit more seriousness than
we may have in the past. So

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do you see the way forward kind
of reclaiming some of this, you know,

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some of the parts of ourselves that
we've discarded. What does it look

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like as we move forward here?
So, Nathan, what kind of seminary

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were you in? I was in
a so my professors were ex Southern Baptists,

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let's put it. Okay, yeah, okay, So I was trained

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in that tradition as well. I
mean, I it was the Roman,

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it was a Roman Catholic seminary,
but it was very much the historical critical

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method. You know, the way
the historical critical method works is it basically

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throws out miracles, right, It
throws out all the strange stuff, and

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it focuses on the stuff that it
can understand historically and and textually. I

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think what you're what you're getting from
this phenomenon, certainly what you're getting from

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me as a kind of third space. It's not the it's not the Southern

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Baptist belief system. I'm not I'm
not asking anyone to believe anything. But

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it's also not the historical critical debunking
or contextualization. I think that basic religious

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beliefs are are based on actual human
experiences, and so there's a there there,

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But it's a there there that doesn't
stay faithful to any particular religious content

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or any particular religious scripture. And
that's difficult for people to hear. It's

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difficult for the religious believer to hear, but it's also difficult for the skeptical

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or secular person to hear, because
I think there really is something being communicated

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that is not historical, that is
not social, but it's not even natural,

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that's intervening in our world. But
I don't happen to believe the content

285
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of this scripture or that scripture,
or this faith or that faith, because

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I think those are all historical deposits
of other people's religious experiences which made sense

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to our ancestors but simply don't make
sense to us anymore. So there's a

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kind of there's a kind of paradox
here. There's a kind of affirmation of

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the religious inbreaking, but there's a
deep skepticism around the traditional interpretations of that

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in breaking, I guess, is
what I'm trying to say. Yeah,

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that makes a lot of sense to
me. And I find that we we

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sort of forget that we should be
applying a historical critical method to our own

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methodology of analysis, right, so
we tend to think that we've kind of

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escaped that somehow. You know,
my my joke, my joke is why

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are your why were your advices in
graduate school omniscient? Why? Why were

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they gods? You know? Why? Why are the critical theorists whom you

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happen to to think or believe.
Why why are they right about everything?

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And why can't we apply the same
historical critical methods to their thought that we

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apply to everything else and and be
skeptical of our own worldview? And I

300
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think that us, what we're being
called to do is is sort of step

301
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out of our worldview or our belief
system and sort of question it. And

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again that's hard because people want answers. They want me to tell them what

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X, Y or Z is,
and I'm like, no, I actually

304
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don't know what X, Y or
Z is, and neither do you,

305
00:27:21.519 --> 00:27:27.240
by the way, So let's let's
be honest about that. And that's a

306
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difficult position to be in for sure. Thank you. Yeah, So I

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had to comment before I asked my
question. When you were talking about the

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AI, what flashed through my head
was Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. And

309
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I feel like you are striving to
find the answer to the universe. And

310
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I think that that is a ridiculously
lofty goal. And if you do get

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the answer A forty two when you
have the AI, run let me know.

312
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But I don't think that you should
put that much pressure on yourself.

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That robot took thousands of years to
give the answer forty to you. So

314
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I wanted to switch to you talked
about worldview, and a lot of people

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may not have picked up on the
fact that you are paying attention to the

316
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phenomenon as a global issue, and
it's really important to me. I'm really

317
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trying to talk about that as much
as possible. I was wondering if you've

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noticed any patterns in looking at the
phenomenon that way that people are missing because

319
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they get so caught up in their
country and one group of countries. Yeah,

320
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I mean, so one of the
common mistakes people make is they think

321
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it's an American phenomenon, you know, they think the UFO, Oh,

322
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it's just an American obsession. And
what they're of course doing is they're confusing

323
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the Hollywood reception and interpretation of the
phenomenon with the total phenomenon, or with

324
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the total total UFA or up reality. And what you see if you look

325
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at this is that it's a global
phenomenon and that it happens everywhere, and

326
00:29:14.799 --> 00:29:22.160
that it's always been happening actually,
and it gets picked up my different cultures

327
00:29:22.200 --> 00:29:27.039
and it gets translated into religions or
nation states. Today in a particular sort

328
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of way. But those ways it
gets picked up are just as much reflections

329
00:29:33.880 --> 00:29:37.240
of us as they are of the
phenomenon itself. And I think that's what

330
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you really take away from the global
picture, is that the individual interpretations are

331
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cultural and historical and they're not absolute. So that's what, at least what

332
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I take away. I'm very much
a comparativist step. I think that things

333
00:29:59.759 --> 00:30:03.839
come partably. I think if things
cross culturally, I don't. I don't

334
00:30:03.839 --> 00:30:10.759
think that this is just an American
obsession or or or an American military concern.

335
00:30:10.839 --> 00:30:14.160
I think this is something that's been
happening for a long long time all

336
00:30:14.160 --> 00:30:19.440
over the world. And what would
you say? The biggest pattern is like

337
00:30:19.480 --> 00:30:26.759
that's that was the big big part
of it is the pattern. So the

338
00:30:26.319 --> 00:30:30.039
pattern that I so there's a couple, there's there's a number of patterns I

339
00:30:30.119 --> 00:30:38.440
see. One is that it looks
a lot like US, but it's not

340
00:30:38.720 --> 00:30:44.759
US. So it's sort of like
US, but not US. If you

341
00:30:44.880 --> 00:30:52.559
gave me enough beer or enough alcohol, yes I'm sorry, the podcasters would

342
00:30:52.960 --> 00:30:57.319
set me back packs of beer.
If you give enough alcohol, I would

343
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probably say, I think it's a
future US. I think I think it's

344
00:31:02.799 --> 00:31:07.440
us. And the reason I say
that is, first of all, it

345
00:31:07.480 --> 00:31:15.519
communicates with us, and it looks
sort of like us, but it doesn't

346
00:31:15.519 --> 00:31:18.680
look like us, looks like me
more than you. Actually, Yeah,

347
00:31:18.720 --> 00:31:23.519
it looks like dj No, but
it and and so that's a pattern I

348
00:31:23.559 --> 00:31:27.640
see. The other couple patterns I
see is one, is it somehow involved

349
00:31:27.640 --> 00:31:37.440
sexuality. There's a lot of sexuality
and gender and and orgasm and sexual fluids

350
00:31:37.480 --> 00:31:41.720
going on, and genetics and you
name it. There's a lot of stuff

351
00:31:41.759 --> 00:31:48.279
going on there. And the other
pattern I see is trauma. I see

352
00:31:48.480 --> 00:31:55.000
a lot of people who are opened
up to this this reality through through their

353
00:31:55.039 --> 00:31:59.079
own personal trauma. And that might
be physical trauma. That might be emotional

354
00:31:59.119 --> 00:32:01.039
trauma, that might be sexual trauma
of them. It might be a lot

355
00:32:01.079 --> 00:32:07.880
of different forms. But I do
see a kind of traumatic pattern here.

356
00:32:09.079 --> 00:32:14.440
And I don't and I don't say
that reductively, deb I'm not reducing it

357
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to the trauma. I think the
trauma somehow opens people up. It just

358
00:32:17.960 --> 00:32:25.640
it puts a hole in people and
they can be we can be impinged upon

359
00:32:25.720 --> 00:32:30.160
them more easily. I like to
think of it as the aperture gets opened

360
00:32:30.279 --> 00:32:37.279
for survival reasons. Yeah, Courtney
Europe. Okay, So I'm going to

361
00:32:37.319 --> 00:32:40.359
try to tie a couple different ideas
together. I had one, but a

362
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couple other came up as we all
got talking. So I remember at the

363
00:32:45.000 --> 00:32:49.559
Archives of the Impossible you said something. It was one of my biggest takeaways

364
00:32:49.759 --> 00:32:52.640
was that. And I might be
saying this wrong, so correct me,

365
00:32:53.000 --> 00:32:57.079
but you had you had said,
well, the future has already happened because

366
00:32:57.079 --> 00:33:00.880
we were talking about retrocausality, we
were talking about the White Night sure and

367
00:33:00.920 --> 00:33:04.079
statistics and all these different things,
and that was like one of the overarching

368
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things that you said that I was
like, wow, he said it.

369
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And then one of the other things
that I saw was that there were a

370
00:33:09.279 --> 00:33:15.440
lot of experiencers there that had needs
that they had, like palpable needs for

371
00:33:15.559 --> 00:33:17.839
answering up questions, and that really
wasn't the right venue for it, but

372
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there was the self culture of people
there talking about their experiences. And so

373
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one of the other things I was
thinking about asking you coming into this was

374
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I come from the humanistic approach as
well in psychology. I didn't have religion,

375
00:33:30.960 --> 00:33:34.960
but cross culturally, you know,
you explore a lot of that and

376
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art and other wonderful things. And
so I wanted to ask you about those

377
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experiencers that are searching and also their
self awareness. And it's a concept I've

378
00:33:44.759 --> 00:33:49.880
been exploring for a little while,
Like when experiencers have these experiences and they're

379
00:33:50.079 --> 00:33:54.960
using self awareness to understand what it
is. What advice do you give experiencers

380
00:33:54.960 --> 00:34:00.960
when they run across that camouflage or
that that interface of some thing other that

381
00:34:00.039 --> 00:34:04.839
they don't necessarily know how to interpret. We have heard that there's some type

382
00:34:04.839 --> 00:34:08.480
of conditioning when they are faced with
that. How do you help them with

383
00:34:08.559 --> 00:34:12.800
their self awareness to move through it
in the best possible way? I mean,

384
00:34:12.800 --> 00:34:17.599
like, what would be your advice? Yeah, yeah, I touched

385
00:34:17.639 --> 00:34:20.639
your heart and I don't want to
put you on the spot, but like,

386
00:34:20.679 --> 00:34:25.159
have you seen things that work?
No, it's okay. First of

387
00:34:25.159 --> 00:34:30.800
all, the experience has challenge me. I'm not I don't present myself as

388
00:34:30.800 --> 00:34:37.000
an authority over these things. I
really want to think out of their experiences.

389
00:34:37.320 --> 00:34:45.119
That's in a very collaborative way.
My sense is is that the experiences

390
00:34:45.320 --> 00:34:51.800
push us towards a kind of physical
reading of a lot of these events that

391
00:34:54.239 --> 00:34:58.880
goes against my own training. You
know, we want to. In the

392
00:34:58.880 --> 00:35:04.320
study of religion, we want to
read things psychologically or spiritually or imaginally,

393
00:35:04.360 --> 00:35:08.800
to use a fancy word. But
the experienceers push us to see these things

394
00:35:08.800 --> 00:35:15.480
more physically, and I want to
hear that, and I want to be

395
00:35:15.639 --> 00:35:21.400
challenged, and I don't want to
present myself as some kind of authority.

396
00:35:22.360 --> 00:35:30.599
On the other hand, I want
to authorize their experiences, and this is

397
00:35:30.639 --> 00:35:37.400
really important. I think the most
important thing we can do is frankly listen

398
00:35:37.679 --> 00:35:45.639
and take their experiences seriously, by
which I mean not reduce them to our

399
00:35:45.719 --> 00:35:51.639
worldview. So when I listen to
an experiencer, I'm not going to say,

400
00:35:51.679 --> 00:35:55.639
oh, well, you experienced X, Y or Z, or you

401
00:35:55.679 --> 00:36:01.639
know this was because of your own
religion, or this was because of your

402
00:36:02.840 --> 00:36:08.440
let's see your emotional history or whatever. I like. No, no,

403
00:36:08.440 --> 00:36:16.840
no, do not reduce what is
being challenged here to something that is comfortable

404
00:36:16.880 --> 00:36:22.719
to you, the something you already
know. And I think it's that act,

405
00:36:22.199 --> 00:36:30.400
Frankly Courtney, that is so powerful
to people, because, for better

406
00:36:30.480 --> 00:36:37.800
or for worse, they do perceive
me as an authority. I think that's

407
00:36:37.800 --> 00:36:43.360
a mistake, by the way,
but they do, and they perceive the

408
00:36:43.480 --> 00:36:50.480
research university as authorizing a particular form
of inquiry. And I think that's correct,

409
00:36:50.519 --> 00:36:55.679
actually, and that's what I most
want to do, and what I

410
00:36:55.719 --> 00:37:05.599
most want to help with is essentially
mainstream this inquiry inside inside an academic box,

411
00:37:05.639 --> 00:37:08.960
as it were, not because the
academic box is perfect, or because

412
00:37:09.760 --> 00:37:15.360
academics are somehow smarter or something.
It's because that's a place in our culture

413
00:37:15.480 --> 00:37:21.960
where we can take things seriously and
we can integrate them over many, many

414
00:37:22.039 --> 00:37:27.000
generations. And so that's what I
most want to do is I want to

415
00:37:27.000 --> 00:37:31.639
make this thing intergenerational. It isn't
about Jeff, it's not about Courtney.

416
00:37:32.400 --> 00:37:39.960
It's about our children and our children's
children, and this inquiry over many generations

417
00:37:40.400 --> 00:37:49.320
until we can change our worldview and
change the story that we live in in

418
00:37:49.360 --> 00:37:54.280
a way that I think is being
called for here. And really that's how

419
00:37:54.320 --> 00:37:59.840
I see a lot of these experiences
and a lot of these impossible events.

420
00:38:00.320 --> 00:38:07.079
I think they're deep, deep shocks
to our stories. And by our stories,

421
00:38:07.159 --> 00:38:10.079
I mean our cultural stories, I
mean our sense of reality. I

422
00:38:10.079 --> 00:38:15.639
mean what we really think is real
and what we most value, and I

423
00:38:15.679 --> 00:38:23.559
think we're being called out of that. And I know people you know who

424
00:38:23.639 --> 00:38:30.480
suffer because of those stories, and
they need another story. And I think

425
00:38:31.320 --> 00:38:37.119
we're not there at the moment.
And maybe maybe we don't. We're never

426
00:38:37.159 --> 00:38:40.599
there, you know, maybe human
beings are always in the process of telling

427
00:38:40.800 --> 00:38:47.199
new stories. And I'm sure the
new stories we tell our great great grandchildren

428
00:38:47.239 --> 00:38:51.360
are going to say, well,
that sucks. You know, that's a

429
00:38:51.440 --> 00:38:54.199
stupid story. You know, Let's
let's tell a difference. Okay, tell

430
00:38:54.199 --> 00:38:59.079
a different story, be a different
person, be a different human being.

431
00:38:59.239 --> 00:39:01.280
But you know what, your grandkids
are going to think, you suck too.

432
00:39:02.280 --> 00:39:14.280
And and so that's the process that
I want to encourage and authorize.

433
00:39:14.480 --> 00:39:17.079
And I just I happen to be
in the academy. So okay, that's

434
00:39:17.119 --> 00:39:22.800
what I do, Courtney. It's
it's not that it's perfect. I think

435
00:39:22.840 --> 00:39:29.400
filmmakers and novelists and graphic novel writers. I mean, there's all kinds of

436
00:39:29.480 --> 00:39:31.840
people who can do this in a
way that's more effective, I think.

437
00:39:31.960 --> 00:39:36.920
But I'm not in those worlds,
so I don't. I can't do that

438
00:39:37.039 --> 00:39:42.000
those things. Actually, my contemporaries
now think my story sucks, so I

439
00:39:42.000 --> 00:39:45.199
can only imagine when we get twenty
thirty years down the line. I mean

440
00:39:45.719 --> 00:39:47.480
bring to me like, not only
didn't I want to hear I really really

441
00:39:47.559 --> 00:39:52.920
don't want to hear it now.
So anyway, doctor Jeff again, I

442
00:39:52.960 --> 00:39:57.119
just want to reiterate your shirt is
outstanding and we may have to compare notes

443
00:39:57.119 --> 00:40:02.599
on our clothiers offline. But Jeff, I wanted to let me frame this

444
00:40:02.719 --> 00:40:08.039
up for you before I asked for
your reaction. So this is Staff Sergeant

445
00:40:08.119 --> 00:40:15.440
Dan Sherman. Former. He was
an ELNT specialist trained as an Eland Specialist

446
00:40:15.519 --> 00:40:19.559
Electronics Intelligence in the Air Force.
He wrote a book called Way Above Black,

447
00:40:19.599 --> 00:40:22.400
which you may or may not be
familiar with, and it's a very

448
00:40:22.480 --> 00:40:29.400
short, to the point sixty page
book of him going to read in to

449
00:40:29.719 --> 00:40:34.159
He was a police security police in
the Air Force going to ELIN and when

450
00:40:34.199 --> 00:40:37.519
he got taken to ELIN School,
which was a top secret program, he

451
00:40:37.599 --> 00:40:42.199
was pulled aside and said, we
want to read you into a grape program

452
00:40:42.599 --> 00:40:46.320
which is umbrellaed by the Black program. So people in the Air Force know

453
00:40:46.360 --> 00:40:51.119
about the Black program. Nobody but
a very select group is going to know

454
00:40:51.159 --> 00:40:57.039
about this gray program. We want
you to be an intuitive communicator with extraterrestrials.

455
00:40:58.039 --> 00:41:02.159
And the reason that we want that
is because your mother was abducted in

456
00:41:02.280 --> 00:41:08.159
nineteen sixty and then she was abducted
again in sixty three when she was pregnant

457
00:41:08.159 --> 00:41:13.440
with you, and you were let's
call it enhanced, and he was,

458
00:41:13.599 --> 00:41:15.280
Oh, my god, am I
a hybrid? Am I? This?

459
00:41:15.320 --> 00:41:19.840
Am I that? And They're like, no, You're just having attenuated ability

460
00:41:19.880 --> 00:41:24.800
that all of us have essentially.
So I watched an interview with him that's

461
00:41:24.880 --> 00:41:29.639
quite old, probably from the early
two thousands, and I read his book

462
00:41:30.159 --> 00:41:34.639
and I want to just get your
reaction to the sentence about religion and God.

463
00:41:35.199 --> 00:41:38.239
And this came up because I heard
you say on a podcast God is

464
00:41:38.360 --> 00:41:43.960
Us and I'd love that quote.
I wrote that quote down. So if

465
00:41:44.000 --> 00:41:46.079
you will just indulge me for a
second here, I'm going to put on

466
00:41:46.159 --> 00:41:52.719
my glasses on my glasses, Okay. Being brought being brought up in the

467
00:41:52.800 --> 00:41:57.639
Christian faith, I naturally had quite
so he finally figured out how to communicate

468
00:41:58.119 --> 00:42:02.000
with these ets on a higher level
that was not the information that they were

469
00:42:02.079 --> 00:42:07.760
asking him to communicate about. And
so religion is the subheader here. And

470
00:42:07.800 --> 00:42:13.760
he says, one question I remember
quite clearly was when I asked if they

471
00:42:13.920 --> 00:42:17.320
the ets had a soul, as
was usually the case, His answer was

472
00:42:17.400 --> 00:42:22.760
quite curious. Perhaps someone reading this
will be able to understand it better than

473
00:42:22.800 --> 00:42:30.039
I. He said that any entity
that realizes its own existence has intellect and

474
00:42:30.119 --> 00:42:36.119
therefore must have a soul. We
meaning us and them. The ets have

475
00:42:36.280 --> 00:42:43.960
been created from the same oneness parenthetical
my interpretation, and out of that creation

476
00:42:44.280 --> 00:42:51.159
came intellect and non intellect. There
are only forms of life in the universe.

477
00:42:51.519 --> 00:42:55.119
They are the only forms of life
in the universe. We are both

478
00:42:55.280 --> 00:43:01.000
them and us, along with many
other parts a part of the intellectual aspect

479
00:43:01.039 --> 00:43:07.679
creation. When asked if there was
a God, he said something like the

480
00:43:07.800 --> 00:43:10.880
question you ask answers it's He said, he's not qualified to answer that question,

481
00:43:12.400 --> 00:43:15.920
but he said something like the question
you ask answers itself. So there

482
00:43:15.960 --> 00:43:23.400
you go, is that how does
God is us playing into that? And

483
00:43:24.280 --> 00:43:35.880
do you agree that maybe there was
this one power that created us and them?

484
00:43:36.320 --> 00:43:39.360
So that's a bit, that's a
big question. It's a guest.

485
00:43:39.480 --> 00:43:43.719
I mean, we don't know.
It's just a well, okay, so

486
00:43:45.440 --> 00:43:51.000
first of all, we know that
there are a lot of traditions in the

487
00:43:51.079 --> 00:43:55.960
history of religions that deal with different
forms of intelligence all the way up to

488
00:43:57.760 --> 00:44:05.480
God. And we know that there
are systems of human beings becoming God that

489
00:44:05.599 --> 00:44:09.039
are what we call apothatic, that
you know, they say away or they

490
00:44:09.079 --> 00:44:16.440
deconstruct notions of some kind of objective
or some kind of personal God. What

491
00:44:16.599 --> 00:44:22.239
I hear in a lot of the
extraterrestrial talk is what we would call demonology

492
00:44:22.360 --> 00:44:27.840
or angelology and a kind of Christian
theological context if we were living in a

493
00:44:27.960 --> 00:44:37.079
medieval worldview, and I don't hear
what I don't hear a lot is what

494
00:44:37.119 --> 00:44:43.800
I would call mystical literature. In
other words, human beings who are affirming

495
00:44:43.840 --> 00:44:49.480
their own divinity and who are affirming
their own deification, but in an apathetic

496
00:44:49.920 --> 00:44:57.280
or a non saying or deconstructive mode. And so I worry, frankly,

497
00:44:58.000 --> 00:45:02.559
I worry about people who are I
was going to say, naively. They're

498
00:45:02.639 --> 00:45:09.840
naively imposing a kind of religious framework
on what is essentially a demonology or an

499
00:45:09.920 --> 00:45:16.639
angelology, and they're not aware of
these mystical traditions in which human beings are

500
00:45:17.280 --> 00:45:25.559
essentially identical to cosmic unity or deity. And what I really think dj is

501
00:45:25.639 --> 00:45:34.360
that we're selling ourselves short, and
that we're not aware of our own,

502
00:45:37.679 --> 00:45:42.480
our own godness as it were,
that if we were aware of this,

503
00:45:42.599 --> 00:45:46.599
and if we listened, if we
actually what This is going to sound self

504
00:45:46.639 --> 00:45:51.280
serving, but what I most want
these people to do is listen to historicians

505
00:45:51.320 --> 00:45:55.960
of religion. Just stop it,
just stop it, Stop talking like you

506
00:45:57.079 --> 00:46:01.840
know what religion is when you really
don't, and listen to people like Nathan

507
00:46:01.960 --> 00:46:07.840
here who actually know something about it
and who can tell you all about it

508
00:46:07.119 --> 00:46:14.280
and so. And sometimes you do
see that, like Matthew Roberts for example.

509
00:46:14.320 --> 00:46:15.760
I don't know if you've had Matthew
of course, oh no, but

510
00:46:15.880 --> 00:46:22.079
we know him. Yeah, yeah, Well Matthew is very explicit that what

511
00:46:22.159 --> 00:46:27.840
you really need to do is talk
to scholars of religion and scholars of the

512
00:46:27.920 --> 00:46:30.519
psychology religion in particular. If you
really want to understand what's going on,

513
00:46:30.840 --> 00:46:36.599
go talk to them. Don't go
talk to the physicists or the rocket scientists

514
00:46:36.760 --> 00:46:40.960
or the chemists. Talk to the
historian or the psychologist or the philosopher.

515
00:46:42.320 --> 00:46:49.159
And I just happen to think that's
correct. And we haven't done that culturally.

516
00:46:49.360 --> 00:46:53.320
I mean, I can tell you
in all certainty that our culture has

517
00:46:53.400 --> 00:47:00.800
dismissed people in the humanities, in
the history and history and philosophy, and

518
00:47:01.159 --> 00:47:07.960
because we don't know anything. And
I say that with sarcasm. Of course

519
00:47:07.960 --> 00:47:12.400
we know all sorts of things,
but they don't want to listen to us.

520
00:47:14.360 --> 00:47:16.840
And so let me let me give
you an example. So when NASA

521
00:47:17.599 --> 00:47:24.119
puts a panel together to study the
potential of extraterrestrial intervention, guess who they

522
00:47:24.119 --> 00:47:28.440
put on it. They put on
a bunch of scientists. Okay, well,

523
00:47:28.440 --> 00:47:32.159
where's the humanist, where's the historian? Where's the answer is there is

524
00:47:32.239 --> 00:47:39.119
none, So of course they're not
going to understand what's going on, you

525
00:47:39.199 --> 00:47:45.239
know. And so that's what I
think needs to happen, is we need

526
00:47:45.280 --> 00:47:50.119
to stop listening to the And I
love physicists, and I love chemists,

527
00:47:50.199 --> 00:47:54.159
I loved I'm not dismissing these people, but please stop listening to them and

528
00:47:54.280 --> 00:48:00.559
start listening to the historians of science
and to the philosophers, the humanists who

529
00:48:00.599 --> 00:48:07.199
actually knows something about what's going on, and and then we will get somewhere.

530
00:48:08.039 --> 00:48:12.920
But we're not going to get somewhere
until we do that. So if

531
00:48:12.960 --> 00:48:16.119
they would have added like DJ Nathan
Debs and Courtney, they would have been

532
00:48:16.320 --> 00:48:22.679
exponentially more prepared to understand what's going
on. Yep, Yeah, I mean

533
00:48:22.760 --> 00:48:27.280
I can't really disagree with that.
I'm just kidding me good money, that's

534
00:48:27.280 --> 00:48:32.880
actually what I'm saying. Yeah,
well, it seems, you know,

535
00:48:32.960 --> 00:48:37.920
Jeff, we've for the longest time
now, we've really located reality outside of

536
00:48:37.920 --> 00:48:45.119
ourselves. We have we have detegrated
our own experience in favor of what's taking

537
00:48:45.159 --> 00:48:49.559
place outside of it and trying to
say that that's, you know, all

538
00:48:49.599 --> 00:48:52.159
that there is. In the process, we've kind of reduced ourselves to do

539
00:48:52.480 --> 00:49:00.360
a non player in the story.
Right. So for me, that that's

540
00:49:00.440 --> 00:49:05.599
the power of this subject. It's
the power of this really the encounters that

541
00:49:05.639 --> 00:49:10.239
I have with experiencers. I'm not
an experiencer, but in a sort of

542
00:49:10.280 --> 00:49:16.480
coming at their truth, you know, from a place of seriousness, as

543
00:49:16.480 --> 00:49:22.599
you would say, you know,
it really does I think re enchant or

544
00:49:22.840 --> 00:49:29.559
resituate reality away from what we all
have I think been ingrained in. And

545
00:49:29.599 --> 00:49:36.920
that's this kind of very strongly materialist
worldview. And so you know what's odd

546
00:49:36.960 --> 00:49:39.079
to me about that. I want
to get your comment on this is how

547
00:49:39.159 --> 00:49:43.639
refreshing that is to the human experience, right, it's if you count of

548
00:49:43.719 --> 00:49:46.599
encounter people who are doing this,
it's incredibly refreshing to them. They are

549
00:49:46.719 --> 00:49:54.559
energized by this process of re examining
their own experience, and in a way,

550
00:49:54.679 --> 00:50:00.000
the phenomena seems to be giving us
permission to kind of do that again,

551
00:50:00.280 --> 00:50:01.840
or invite us. It's more of
an invitation, let's put it that

552
00:50:01.880 --> 00:50:07.760
way, to do that again.
Have you found similar response from people that

553
00:50:07.159 --> 00:50:13.800
you have really engaged on this topic
and come to it with that kind of

554
00:50:13.840 --> 00:50:19.559
earnest and fresh perspective. I think
what you find this is a general comment,

555
00:50:19.679 --> 00:50:24.480
Nathan, but I think it's fair. I think what you find if

556
00:50:24.480 --> 00:50:30.119
you talk to the people who really
engage the phenomenon is that it ultimately leads

557
00:50:30.159 --> 00:50:36.159
back to consciousness. And by consciousness, I don't mean Nathan or Jeff or

558
00:50:37.119 --> 00:50:39.159
deb or Courtney or DJ. I
don't mean the ego. I mean some

559
00:50:39.320 --> 00:50:50.679
other realm or some other dimension of
mind that is vastly superior to our individual

560
00:50:50.719 --> 00:50:54.880
selves. But what you find over
and over again is that the phenomenon is

561
00:50:54.960 --> 00:51:01.440
responding to whatever consciousness or to whatever
awareness is brought to it, and it

562
00:51:01.480 --> 00:51:09.000
has this kind of you know,
diologic or kind of backwards sort of or

563
00:51:09.039 --> 00:51:16.800
loopy nature to it that I think
is very difficult for science minded people because

564
00:51:17.159 --> 00:51:28.039
science is really good at explaining everything
except us. You know, it actually

565
00:51:28.119 --> 00:51:35.000
leaves out consciousness entirely. And it
does that so that it can explain everything.

566
00:51:35.079 --> 00:51:37.639
Okay, you can explain everything,
but you can only explain everything because

567
00:51:37.679 --> 00:51:45.159
you got to determine what everything is. And if everything includes consciousness, then

568
00:51:45.239 --> 00:51:52.559
suddenly you don't. You can't explain
everything, and there's a huge hole in

569
00:51:52.599 --> 00:52:00.400
your model of the universe called us
called called called consciousness or line that just

570
00:52:00.599 --> 00:52:08.719
finds no place in this objectifying,
quantifying, replicating method. And and again

571
00:52:08.760 --> 00:52:14.199
that's not to dismiss science or technology. It's just to say it's really good

572
00:52:14.239 --> 00:52:17.920
at doing certain things, but it's
really horrible or bad at doing other things.

573
00:52:19.519 --> 00:52:23.519
And I think the excitement people feel
around the UAP or the UFO experience

574
00:52:23.599 --> 00:52:34.519
is that it brings consciousness back into
into the the picture again in a pretty

575
00:52:34.559 --> 00:52:43.800
dramatic way. That is baffling to
to this materialist or scientific picture of things,

576
00:52:44.360 --> 00:52:47.880
but it is very familiar to those
of us who have who have you

577
00:52:47.920 --> 00:52:57.400
know, spent our lives living and
working and interpreting other religious worlds. We

578
00:52:57.559 --> 00:53:01.400
covered last time, you know,
some of the extra things that humans are

579
00:53:01.480 --> 00:53:07.400
doing that the phenomenon can't do.
We talked about Courtney's Dutch apple crump pie

580
00:53:07.440 --> 00:53:12.920
at Thanksgiving. We spoke about Deb's
hamburger helper. We spoke about Nathan splitting

581
00:53:12.920 --> 00:53:15.280
wood in the backyard. And actually, I haven't come up with anything that

582
00:53:15.360 --> 00:53:21.039
I can do that they can't do
yet, but still, I'm just kidding.

583
00:53:21.239 --> 00:53:28.119
I never hear about UFOs that look
like motorcycles. That's true. Now.

584
00:53:28.480 --> 00:53:30.880
Actually, one thing I did think
of that that just popped into my

585
00:53:30.960 --> 00:53:35.480
head this week was kind of how
they would look at us. And I

586
00:53:35.519 --> 00:53:38.599
thought about a navy ship. I
thought about. I think I was listening

587
00:53:38.599 --> 00:53:45.880
to maybe Richard Dolan's accounts of naval
ship encounters with craft, whether they be

588
00:53:46.159 --> 00:53:51.800
aircraft carriers, destroyers, or the
like, and I thought, if I

589
00:53:51.920 --> 00:53:58.480
were a non human intelligence, and
I had my censors were picking up this

590
00:53:58.760 --> 00:54:05.760
enormous power that is generated by the
either the nuclear reactor or other form of

591
00:54:05.840 --> 00:54:10.039
propulsion that a lot of these ships
have. And I decide to hover close

592
00:54:10.159 --> 00:54:15.519
and examine it, and all of
a sudden, I'm getting shot at yeah,

593
00:54:15.599 --> 00:54:16.960
and you know what I mean,
all of a sudden, the failing

594
00:54:17.039 --> 00:54:22.519
system is going off and I'm seeing
you know, twenty millimeters rounds, you

595
00:54:22.559 --> 00:54:28.760
know, headed my way. And
it's very interesting that they how must they

596
00:54:28.840 --> 00:54:35.599
interpret how aggressive that we are,
that just appearing is enough for them to

597
00:54:35.800 --> 00:54:40.519
be targeted and shot at. Have
you ever thought about no, sure,

598
00:54:40.840 --> 00:54:44.880
no, no, of course.
I mean there's a couple thoughts there.

599
00:54:44.920 --> 00:54:49.199
One is, I don't think these
are threats, because I think if these

600
00:54:49.199 --> 00:54:53.159
were true threats, we've been toasted
a long time. You know. I

601
00:54:53.199 --> 00:54:59.159
think it's obvious that whatever we're dealing
with is so vastly superior to us that

602
00:54:59.280 --> 00:55:04.920
it's it's it's not even close.
So the whole idea of threat just it

603
00:55:04.960 --> 00:55:13.960
makes me laugh. And but if
I were, if I were interested in

604
00:55:14.000 --> 00:55:21.760
my own species past, I would
be very concerned about the development of nuclear

605
00:55:21.800 --> 00:55:30.320
power, for example, because it's
essentially a bunch of monkeys juggling chainsaws that

606
00:55:30.360 --> 00:55:38.760
are going It's it's really dumb.
And I also, you know, the

607
00:55:38.840 --> 00:55:44.519
other thing that I think about a
lot is well, you know, we

608
00:55:44.639 --> 00:55:47.480
have this metaphor of AI now because
well, AI is in the news,

609
00:55:47.519 --> 00:55:53.280
and we think of AI. If
I were visiting the tribe of a of

610
00:55:53.360 --> 00:55:58.800
a of a previous species, I
would go in myself. I'm going to

611
00:55:58.840 --> 00:56:04.360
get thrown against the fucking wall,
and the monkeys are violent. I am

612
00:56:04.440 --> 00:56:07.639
not going into that. But I'll
send the machine in. You know,

613
00:56:08.239 --> 00:56:13.920
that's fine. You know. So
I think the whole language and metaphor of

614
00:56:14.320 --> 00:56:17.360
AI or the machine or the or
the robot as we used to call it,

615
00:56:17.400 --> 00:56:28.320
is actually quite intuitive to to what
what a what a future human would

616
00:56:28.400 --> 00:56:32.679
how a future human would actually interact
with with a present human, which is

617
00:56:32.920 --> 00:56:39.360
very carefully and you know there are
stars. There are Star Trek episodes on

618
00:56:39.440 --> 00:56:43.280
this, right, I mean the
prime director. I mean, we have

619
00:56:43.440 --> 00:56:49.360
imagined this. It's not like this
is outside the narrative our of our imagination,

620
00:56:49.920 --> 00:56:52.719
but we have imagined. And what
we know from the history of colonialism,

621
00:56:52.760 --> 00:57:01.119
by the way, is it's bad. When one civilization interacts with another

622
00:57:01.519 --> 00:57:07.119
and it's technologically superior, it does
not go well. Okay, it goes

623
00:57:07.320 --> 00:57:14.119
really badly. So if you are
a technologically superior civilization, you do not

624
00:57:14.320 --> 00:57:22.159
want to intervene in the development of
of a of a technologically inferior civilization.

625
00:57:22.119 --> 00:57:27.639
Okay, So you just don't.
I mean, that's just that's just history.

626
00:57:27.760 --> 00:57:31.559
That's history. One oh one.
So I think there are a lot

627
00:57:31.599 --> 00:57:37.119
of again, good reasons that we
see what we see, and there are

628
00:57:37.119 --> 00:57:39.920
a lot of good reasons that we
don't see what we don't see, like

629
00:57:39.960 --> 00:57:43.960
this, you know, this silly
notion of landing on the white House lot.

630
00:57:44.239 --> 00:57:46.440
Why in the hell would they land
on the white House lot? I

631
00:57:46.480 --> 00:57:52.079
mean, that's crazy, that's crazy
talk. And so there are a white

632
00:57:52.119 --> 00:57:54.960
house, what's the white House to
them? You know? Yeah? Well?

633
00:57:55.000 --> 00:58:00.320
And also why, yeah, why
why? Why? Why would the

634
00:58:00.360 --> 00:58:04.960
farmer show up and talk to the
pigs and the goats and the cows too.

635
00:58:05.039 --> 00:58:08.519
I mean, it's just crazy talk. And it assumes a kind of

636
00:58:08.639 --> 00:58:15.239
anthropost centrism that we're somehow the superior
species in the universe, and I just

637
00:58:15.519 --> 00:58:21.079
seriously doubt that. And I think
that's one of the shocks of this this

638
00:58:21.159 --> 00:58:25.000
phenomenon is that it really shows that
we're not. Yeah all that. I

639
00:58:25.000 --> 00:58:30.039
mean, I don't know if these
phenomenon could necessarily produce led Zeppelin and things

640
00:58:30.079 --> 00:58:35.360
like that, but anyway, I
don't. Probably not, I mean probably

641
00:58:35.400 --> 00:58:38.360
not. But again, what's what's
led Zeppelin to in the greater picture.

642
00:58:38.400 --> 00:58:42.639
I don't know. Well, we
would have to see what ets would think

643
00:58:42.639 --> 00:58:45.519
of that music. I mean,
you know, we would have to see

644
00:58:45.599 --> 00:58:49.159
what their reaction is. But anyway, we don't want to keep any longer

645
00:58:49.159 --> 00:58:53.840
because we have hit you one hour
mark and that way, you know when

646
00:58:53.880 --> 00:58:58.519
we ask you to come back for
a third time, you won't be like,

647
00:58:58.719 --> 00:59:00.360
oh, those guys kept me for
too out for an hour and a

648
00:59:00.360 --> 00:59:07.280
half. So let's go with Cabby
goodbye, Starting with Courtney connected. It

649
00:59:07.400 --> 00:59:12.039
was wonderful having you, wonderful seeing
you again. Thank you for answering my

650
00:59:12.159 --> 00:59:16.079
questions so articulate and eloquent. And
for the future, I just want you

651
00:59:16.159 --> 00:59:22.079
to know that I'm refamiliarizing myself with
the flip and I just have this burning

652
00:59:22.280 --> 00:59:28.519
desire to talk with you in the
future about cosmic mindedness. Yeah sometimes,

653
00:59:28.599 --> 00:59:32.280
yeah, Courtney, thank you for
coming to Rice and for stopping me and

654
00:59:32.360 --> 00:59:39.360
I you know, I always apologize. It's it's it's not my Preedmadonna's status.

655
00:59:39.400 --> 00:59:44.559
It's just being overwhelmed with a lot
of guests and a lot of a

656
00:59:44.559 --> 00:59:49.639
lot of details that I always am, and so so thank you for coming.

657
00:59:49.840 --> 00:59:52.679
Yeah. Luckily I was with Mike
Clellan. So he was like,

658
00:59:52.760 --> 00:59:54.239
oh, yeah, come over,
come over and meet him. Because I

659
00:59:54.280 --> 00:59:57.320
was like, oh no, no, I don't. I don't want to

660
00:59:57.360 --> 00:59:59.599
impose upon him. He's like,
oh, it'll be fine. So he

661
00:59:59.760 --> 01:00:05.800
was I leading Mike's school. Yeah
it's cool. Thank you, Like I

662
01:00:05.800 --> 01:00:09.840
said, Courtney connected, go ahead, Debs. I wanted to say while

663
01:00:09.880 --> 01:00:13.679
we've been talking, I just keep
thinking of all these things I'd like to

664
01:00:13.719 --> 01:00:16.599
talk to you about like that.
That's just how interesting the conversation has been,

665
01:00:17.920 --> 01:00:22.280
you know. And I wanted to
say also that there are resources that

666
01:00:22.360 --> 01:00:28.360
are available for those experiencers that are
reaching out to you. Maybe you could

667
01:00:28.400 --> 01:00:32.559
just like add Opus's linked to their
website to your signature when you respond to

668
01:00:32.599 --> 01:00:37.719
people or something like that. So
don't put all of it on yourself.

669
01:00:37.360 --> 01:00:42.199
After all, your AI is not
going to tell you for thousands of years

670
01:00:42.199 --> 01:00:46.559
that the answer is forty two.
And there are there are other humanitarian efforts

671
01:00:46.559 --> 01:00:51.119
out there, like the people here
that want to help. So if you

672
01:00:51.159 --> 01:00:53.679
need help, just let us know. But we very much appreciate everything that

673
01:00:53.719 --> 01:00:59.559
you do. You have put yourself
as a figurehead and a noble effort.

674
01:01:00.039 --> 01:01:04.960
Thank you very much. Yeah,
no, I'm well aware of those networks

675
01:01:05.039 --> 01:01:07.519
and and they're all they're all wonderful. Thank you, Thank you for doing

676
01:01:07.519 --> 01:01:13.639
what you're doing. Jeff. It's
been a real pleasure having you back with

677
01:01:13.719 --> 01:01:15.519
us. And you've got a book. I'm gonna plug your book that's coming

678
01:01:15.599 --> 01:01:20.719
up in July. It's called how
to Think Impossibly. To get that title

679
01:01:20.760 --> 01:01:23.800
correct, Yeah, and I heard
that the forward was going to be written

680
01:01:23.800 --> 01:01:29.079
by Philip ball Is that is that
right? Or he has a common Philip

681
01:01:29.079 --> 01:01:32.159
wrote a blurb to it. Now
there's no forward. There's no forward to

682
01:01:32.199 --> 01:01:36.440
it. If he wrote a forward
to it, that's news to me.

683
01:01:36.559 --> 01:01:38.239
Nathan, Okay, perfect, great, Well, for those who don't know,

684
01:01:38.320 --> 01:01:42.199
Philip ball is I think one of
the editors of the journal Nature.

685
01:01:42.280 --> 01:01:45.800
He's a science writer. So that's
a pretty notable blurb to write for your

686
01:01:45.840 --> 01:01:49.679
book. Looking forward to that it
comes out in July twelfth, I think,

687
01:01:50.239 --> 01:01:52.480
yeah, yeah, yeah, that
sounds right. Actually, yeah,

688
01:01:52.679 --> 01:01:55.880
excellent. Well, best of luck
with that and the rest of your sabbatical

689
01:01:55.920 --> 01:02:00.679
well deserved, and hopefully we'll have
you back with us again in the future.

690
01:02:00.800 --> 01:02:04.039
So I hope so you guys know
how to get a hold of it,

691
01:02:05.440 --> 01:02:07.719
and thank thankfully you answer us.
And by the way, so Cabby's

692
01:02:07.920 --> 01:02:10.360
what we're going to say. I'm
going to say goodbye to Jeff here.

693
01:02:10.400 --> 01:02:14.239
We're gonna let him go, and
then we're gonna stay on air and promo

694
01:02:14.360 --> 01:02:19.440
our new network, the Untold Radio
Network. So but Jeff, before we

695
01:02:19.559 --> 01:02:22.880
do that, I want to say, thank you so much for being willing

696
01:02:22.920 --> 01:02:30.199
to come on. I know how
many podcasts contact you, and we love

697
01:02:30.280 --> 01:02:34.159
your work and your positive nature.
We'll never forget what you did for our

698
01:02:34.239 --> 01:02:38.199
Cabby Matt last time, because boy, some of the paranormal stuff that he

699
01:02:38.280 --> 01:02:45.119
has dealt with I've heard even since
that show that he shared is quite traumatizing.

700
01:02:45.119 --> 01:02:47.480
And the way that you handled that, I know made him feel better

701
01:02:47.480 --> 01:02:53.440
and I'm deeply appreciative of that.
So yeah, please let us know.

702
01:02:53.559 --> 01:02:58.119
We will promo your book even though
you if you're not on, we are

703
01:02:58.159 --> 01:03:01.960
still going to throw it at up
at the beginning of our show what we're

704
01:03:02.000 --> 01:03:07.119
starting with a new network on May
nine. But thank you, so yes,

705
01:03:07.159 --> 01:03:09.079
sir, we're very excited about it, and thank you very much for

706
01:03:09.239 --> 01:03:14.800
coming and sharing your thoughts and being
such a good sport. Right. No,

707
01:03:15.079 --> 01:03:17.679
it's a pleasure really and I mean
that it's not it's not a duty

708
01:03:17.800 --> 01:03:22.960
or a or a performance. It's
it's genuine. I'm really glad. I'm

709
01:03:22.960 --> 01:03:25.800
really glad. We had so much
fun and you can laugh with us.

710
01:03:25.840 --> 01:03:30.440
So well, we will invite you
on for a Jeff Kreipel part three,

711
01:03:30.559 --> 01:03:32.440
kind of like Jaws three, but
it'll be better than that. Was all

712
01:03:32.519 --> 01:03:37.559
right. I saw Jaws, by
the way, I remember Jaws in the

713
01:03:37.599 --> 01:03:43.079
seventies. I didn't see Jaws three, so must not go there. Yeah,

714
01:03:43.559 --> 01:03:46.079
we're close in age. I saw
Jaws in the theater Star Wars as

715
01:03:46.119 --> 01:03:49.360
a ten year old. That'll give
you an idea how old. And so

716
01:03:50.719 --> 01:03:52.239
thank you so much, brother.
We'll talk to you soon. Okay,

717
01:03:52.960 --> 01:04:00.840
take care bye. All right,
Cabby's great, great job, guys.

718
01:04:00.880 --> 01:04:04.440
I just figured we would uh promo
the network. So May ninth, the

719
01:04:04.480 --> 01:04:10.719
only place that you guys will be
able to find CAB is on untold Radio

720
01:04:10.840 --> 01:04:15.000
network. Nathan, do you have
anything cued up we can throw up there?

721
01:04:15.440 --> 01:04:17.760
I do not. I have nothing, Okay, we will. We

722
01:04:17.880 --> 01:04:21.639
will get it for the uh for
the next show. We'll get something.

723
01:04:23.000 --> 01:04:26.360
We'll get that that tile up there
so we can show you the logo and

724
01:04:26.400 --> 01:04:30.960
we can have the link and so
forth. Jewels, you know you,

725
01:04:30.960 --> 01:04:32.719
you'll find all of us there.
Jewels will be there, everybody will be

726
01:04:32.760 --> 01:04:39.800
there. Hello and on, Welcome, Welcome back. And this is Horselama

727
01:04:41.079 --> 01:04:45.679
somebody the name in the tent.
But yeah, so Untold Radio Network,

728
01:04:45.960 --> 01:04:50.639
there is a slew of Bigfoot shows, paranormal shows. I'm gonna bring it

729
01:04:50.719 --> 01:04:56.079
up real quick, just so I
can, just so I can. I

730
01:04:56.119 --> 01:04:59.239
think this sit right here, Untold
Radio AM. I'm gonna put on my

731
01:04:59.320 --> 01:05:03.519
spectacles, okay, and next week
they're going to be working on our stuff.

732
01:05:04.199 --> 01:05:09.599
So boy, here's the show.
They have a coffee time down South,

733
01:05:09.599 --> 01:05:15.920
Phenomenalies to discover Sasquatch, Grasping Sasquatch, Monsters on the Edge, Mysterious

734
01:05:15.960 --> 01:05:23.239
Library, Pine Island Research, Paranormal
Spectrum, Talking Weird, the Bigfoot influencers,

735
01:05:24.119 --> 01:05:27.719
Sasquatch outposts, Jim. I really
want to get Jim on from Colorado.

736
01:05:27.760 --> 01:05:32.199
He's amazing, grew up in Zimbabwe. I think Untold Radio AM and

737
01:05:32.280 --> 01:05:40.119
Weird Encounters a wide open research and
it says Calling All Beings Archive, so

738
01:05:40.280 --> 01:05:45.519
Calling All Beings is already being listed
on their site. And they also are

739
01:05:45.599 --> 01:05:51.320
owners of Hangar one Publishing where you
can find books on UFO's Bigfoot Paranormal.

740
01:05:51.440 --> 01:05:56.840
So they're kind of into the same
things that we're into. But take it

741
01:05:56.880 --> 01:06:00.960
away, Nathan, Yeah, we're
very excited about this opportunity to partner with

742
01:06:01.039 --> 01:06:06.880
and the Cat. The Cat's back
there is, so we're very excited about

743
01:06:06.920 --> 01:06:10.400
that. One of the things that's
going to allow us to do is to

744
01:06:11.199 --> 01:06:13.880
record some of the shows and then
we'll be able to be in the audience

745
01:06:13.880 --> 01:06:16.320
and chat while the show premiere.
So that'll be a fun way for us

746
01:06:16.320 --> 01:06:19.360
to interact with folks that we don't
normally get a good chance to interact with

747
01:06:19.400 --> 01:06:24.039
while the show is happening. So
a huge shout out to our listeners and

748
01:06:24.360 --> 01:06:28.159
followers. It's been great to kind
of get to this point and hopefully we'll

749
01:06:28.199 --> 01:06:33.679
deepen the Cabby network further and grow
the Cabby community. Yeah, on Debs,

750
01:06:35.400 --> 01:06:39.679
I wanted to add that as far
as I know, we will be

751
01:06:39.760 --> 01:06:45.119
able to link our videos to the
show to the YouTube channel that we currently

752
01:06:45.159 --> 01:06:48.599
have, so no one's gonna have
to go where they go where they go.

753
01:06:48.719 --> 01:06:53.199
We're still going to be out there. I'm excited to be with so

754
01:06:53.280 --> 01:06:58.800
many people who are seasoned and talking
about the phenomenon. So that's one of

755
01:06:58.800 --> 01:07:01.719
the things I'm really looking for.
Two, we're gonna be connected to a

756
01:07:01.760 --> 01:07:09.159
lot more people who are interested in
you know, Bigfoot ghost and we're gonna

757
01:07:09.199 --> 01:07:12.800
be one of the only UFO people. But you know, we've got our

758
01:07:12.840 --> 01:07:17.440
stuff together. We're good, so
it's gonna be great. Well, the

759
01:07:17.519 --> 01:07:23.000
UFO love That's what I was gonna
say. Court. They're basically they're looking

760
01:07:23.000 --> 01:07:27.159
to plus up their UFO content.
Uh. And that's why I think they

761
01:07:27.199 --> 01:07:30.880
were interested. They they've been on
with us or Doug high check, Doug

762
01:07:30.960 --> 01:07:33.840
high Check. Sorry, man,
Harrah's gonna take I think this is Ka

763
01:07:34.320 --> 01:07:40.199
punishing me by sending her Hara the
Destroyer in here, because she truly is

764
01:07:40.280 --> 01:07:44.719
the disruptor in the house. But
anyway, and she's gonna callaw me here

765
01:07:44.760 --> 01:07:48.800
in a second. But Doug is
the producer of Monster Quest those of you

766
01:07:48.840 --> 01:07:55.119
who remember that, he's also done
work for nat Geo uh and other networks.

767
01:07:55.480 --> 01:08:00.599
Uh and legend me at Science too, which this is the twenty twenty

768
01:08:00.599 --> 01:08:05.159
three. He starts shooting, Oh
now she's got the microphone. It's so

769
01:08:05.239 --> 01:08:12.280
funny. But Doug starts shooting Legend
Meat Signs two ten years after the first

770
01:08:12.320 --> 01:08:15.840
one, so he started shooting in
twenty twenty three. He's not finished yet.

771
01:08:16.880 --> 01:08:20.680
But yeah, it's a great group
of people and I think it'll it'll

772
01:08:20.760 --> 01:08:24.560
work out really well. You know, then, what do you think We're

773
01:08:24.600 --> 01:08:30.199
going to bring more UFO content to
the big Foot people's homie. I'm all

774
01:08:30.239 --> 01:08:33.319
about it. You know, I'm
a big UFO researcher and you know,

775
01:08:33.479 --> 01:08:40.319
kind of a nut really, so
I'm excited about expanding horizons, especially being

776
01:08:40.319 --> 01:08:44.239
with calling all beings. With this
partnership, It's going to be pretty fascinating

777
01:08:44.319 --> 01:08:47.159
and lovely to see what takes hold
and people that are going to find it

778
01:08:47.359 --> 01:08:51.159
find the content. Yeah, well
well, adeb as you were saying,

779
01:08:51.159 --> 01:08:56.199
we'll kind of figure out the links, but I think they're going to be

780
01:08:56.279 --> 01:09:00.560
able to click on that and come
to ours often get with We'll get get

781
01:09:00.560 --> 01:09:04.199
into some meetings effect Doug. I
spoke with Doug today. He's gonna contact

782
01:09:04.239 --> 01:09:10.960
Nathan next week about some of the
creative aspects of it that he's asking me

783
01:09:11.000 --> 01:09:13.520
stuff today. I'm like, Man, if it does doesn't have to do

784
01:09:13.560 --> 01:09:15.479
with content, don't ask me.
I don't know anything. I don't have

785
01:09:15.479 --> 01:09:20.000
anything to do with it. That's
Nathan, So but he'll get with you

786
01:09:20.079 --> 01:09:26.399
on that. I'll talk with Alex
Hicheck, his son about the mechanics of

787
01:09:26.439 --> 01:09:30.960
it. And but basically that's where
you're gonna find us on YouTube and on

788
01:09:31.079 --> 01:09:38.279
podcasts on Untold Radio network. So
we'll Nathan and I kind of will figure

789
01:09:38.279 --> 01:09:43.640
out how to make sure we leave
that message out there that everybody can can

790
01:09:43.680 --> 01:09:47.199
find it on podcasts, et cetera. But essentially you'll have to just subscribe.

791
01:09:47.520 --> 01:09:51.119
Now this is not a paid subscription. Okay, you can go on

792
01:09:51.159 --> 01:09:56.760
your your whatever, your podcasts app
and just subscribe or follow our show and

793
01:09:56.760 --> 01:10:00.119
you're gonna get CAB every week.
It's just that it won't be on the

794
01:10:00.520 --> 01:10:04.119
current CAB feed anymore. But it's
not still not going to cost you anything

795
01:10:04.199 --> 01:10:10.399
to watch or or listen to CAB
on pod. Yeah, all right,

796
01:10:10.439 --> 01:10:14.119
what'd you think, man, doctor
Jeff Cripel's best? How can you not

797
01:10:14.239 --> 01:10:19.319
like Jeff Crepel's amazing court? What'd
you think? He's just such a groovy

798
01:10:19.359 --> 01:10:25.439
guy, and he's you know,
he's thoughtful, he's careful, he's considerate,

799
01:10:26.119 --> 01:10:29.159
very insightful. I mean, he's
just lovely. He's a lovely man.

800
01:10:30.039 --> 01:10:33.760
I couldn't agree more. He's just
such a kind person. I mean,

801
01:10:34.119 --> 01:10:39.800
he is probably getting requests on the
level that Gary Nolan is and and

802
01:10:39.840 --> 01:10:43.520
he said yes to us, and
it's well, you know, maybe not

803
01:10:43.720 --> 01:10:45.720
Gary maybe getting you know, because
he's on TV a lot as well.

804
01:10:45.760 --> 01:10:48.720
You know, he's on news programs. He's probably getting even more. But

805
01:10:48.840 --> 01:10:54.520
we really and we did have Gary
once. We really appreciate it. Debs.

806
01:10:54.920 --> 01:10:58.640
Did we get anything wrong tonight?
And how did it go? Oh?

807
01:10:58.680 --> 01:11:01.039
I thought it went well. I
feel like he really just makes you

808
01:11:01.079 --> 01:11:04.199
want to think about so many other
things, you know, and you just

809
01:11:04.279 --> 01:11:09.720
want to be that person that tells
him your experience for some reason. Like

810
01:11:10.239 --> 01:11:14.960
and his shirt was phenomenal, it
was so cool. I know, I'm

811
01:11:15.000 --> 01:11:17.359
so jealous man. Yeah, And
I'm going to send him the book from

812
01:11:18.119 --> 01:11:25.520
Dan Sherman and see what he thinks. But I think I don't know if

813
01:11:25.600 --> 01:11:30.119
he believes that our government has been
in contact with him, which I also,

814
01:11:30.279 --> 01:11:32.800
as you guys know, have said
it on CAB. I didn't believe

815
01:11:32.840 --> 01:11:41.159
it. And now is everybody in
Unison that they believe that? Now?

816
01:11:41.199 --> 01:11:45.239
Are we going in different camps?
On this, I'm in a different camp.

817
01:11:45.359 --> 01:11:48.760
So I don't think it's the government. I think it's people who are

818
01:11:48.800 --> 01:11:53.720
connected maybe to the government, who
have some of the skills, some of

819
01:11:53.760 --> 01:11:59.760
the resources. But I don't think
that this organization that is doing this stuff

820
01:11:59.880 --> 01:12:05.039
is so much the government anymore.
Well, what I'm referring to as the

821
01:12:05.159 --> 01:12:12.479
Dan Sherman narrative about being trained by
the government, it was a joint I

822
01:12:12.479 --> 01:12:17.640
don't know if it was NSA or
CIA and Air Force program, just to

823
01:12:17.760 --> 01:12:21.760
learn how to communicate with them.
Yeah. Yeah, So I think my

824
01:12:23.399 --> 01:12:28.000
thing is, and I think I've
said this previously, is if you broad

825
01:12:28.039 --> 01:12:31.600
in your perspective of what that means
to be the government, right, if

826
01:12:31.600 --> 01:12:35.800
you brought in it to understand that
those people may have been trained by the

827
01:12:35.840 --> 01:12:42.760
government, may still be working there, may still have some connection, but

828
01:12:43.079 --> 01:12:46.239
are actually working outside of the government. I think that's where some of this

829
01:12:46.359 --> 01:12:50.319
really lies. Well, what he
was saying was I was trained to Fort

830
01:12:50.359 --> 01:12:57.600
Meade. So if he's saying that, he's giving he changed the names of

831
01:12:57.640 --> 01:13:00.800
the people, but he's using ranks, and he's talking about the programs,

832
01:13:01.039 --> 01:13:05.079
and he showed a set of orders. So he's talking about This definitely was

833
01:13:05.119 --> 01:13:09.039
a if you believe it, I
mean, you don't need to believe this.

834
01:13:09.479 --> 01:13:12.319
Well, it was a and what
it is now I don't know.

835
01:13:12.520 --> 01:13:15.199
I've haven't the slightest idea and I
don't have an idea of what happened.

836
01:13:15.199 --> 01:13:20.239
Then. All I know is what
he said and the way that he speaks

837
01:13:20.239 --> 01:13:25.479
about it lines up with I believe
that he's telling the truth, but I

838
01:13:25.520 --> 01:13:30.840
don't have any knowledge of it.
So so his experience wasn't direct contact though,

839
01:13:30.920 --> 01:13:35.239
right, it was. It was
communication, So that's different. What

840
01:13:35.359 --> 01:13:41.199
I'm talking about is the people who
are saying that the government is having like

841
01:13:41.279 --> 01:13:44.800
a direct contact, and I don't
think that's happening. I think it's a

842
01:13:44.840 --> 01:13:48.279
different group. I think so like
he wasn't the first person to come out

843
01:13:48.319 --> 01:13:53.119
and say, I've, you know, worked for the government and then we

844
01:13:53.199 --> 01:13:58.600
worked with you know et essentially,
right, I think that there is another

845
01:13:58.800 --> 01:14:04.920
group that's doing that work, the
physical contact, the like you know,

846
01:14:05.039 --> 01:14:10.119
and you hear these stories like that
there's a space in a base, it's

847
01:14:10.159 --> 01:14:13.840
not always area fifty one, and
it just seems to be like there's a

848
01:14:13.880 --> 01:14:18.600
pattern. But I just feel like
maybe because of liability, even it wouldn't

849
01:14:18.640 --> 01:14:24.359
be directly the government, that's all. Yeah, and and Court, did

850
01:14:24.399 --> 01:14:30.279
you do you remember lou Elezando sort
of retweeted somebody that said, oh,

851
01:14:30.399 --> 01:14:32.640
I'm trying to figure out what Harr's
doing. Now. She's trying to open

852
01:14:32.720 --> 01:14:39.479
a little close plastic She's trying to
get in the drawer, a plastic container

853
01:14:39.560 --> 01:14:43.319
drawer and pull it open hatred,
but there's something blocking it, so she's

854
01:14:43.359 --> 01:14:47.800
trying hard to All right, Court, do you remember Andrew something? Lou

855
01:14:47.840 --> 01:14:53.119
Alezondo retweeted, Hey, you should
listen to this or take this seriously.

856
01:14:53.199 --> 01:14:57.279
Do you guys remember, Yeah,
Andrew Scott he had one of the largest

857
01:14:57.600 --> 01:15:01.439
UH buyout deals. I think it
was by I don't know if it was

858
01:15:01.439 --> 01:15:05.199
by HarperCollins, but it was by
one of the big publishers last year,

859
01:15:05.239 --> 01:15:11.760
and then we hadn't heard much about
it. And then Ross Coltheart also covered

860
01:15:11.760 --> 01:15:17.560
it. Luelzando and Sean a couple
of different people covered that story. And

861
01:15:17.640 --> 01:15:23.199
so I haven't heard anything more about
the book. To your point though,

862
01:15:23.279 --> 01:15:27.880
about the belief system and whether you
believe we're contacting them, I just think

863
01:15:27.920 --> 01:15:30.680
it's so fascinating how you think.
No. Right, But then as you

864
01:15:30.720 --> 01:15:35.079
get exposed to all this material,
then you start wading in and you're like,

865
01:15:35.600 --> 01:15:38.920
oh, I have to accept this
and I have to accept this.

866
01:15:39.039 --> 01:15:44.840
Well, today I was reading this
really in depth article. It was written

867
01:15:44.840 --> 01:15:46.640
by Richard Dolan and it was Kit
Green, and he was having him go

868
01:15:46.720 --> 01:15:49.920
on the record, and Kit Green
says multiple times that there's a secret space

869
01:15:50.000 --> 01:15:54.760
program, that he knows it,
that he encountered it, he encountered it

870
01:15:54.800 --> 01:15:58.039
on multiple occasions. I'm like looking
at that, just going are you kidding

871
01:15:58.079 --> 01:16:00.279
me? Like, I can't set
that. I can't accept that right now.

872
01:16:00.680 --> 01:16:02.760
I'm just going to store it,
put a pin in it, and

873
01:16:03.039 --> 01:16:06.439
you know, encounter that later.
But it comes in waves where you kind

874
01:16:06.439 --> 01:16:11.399
of you can't refuse certain things after
a while after you see it enough in

875
01:16:11.439 --> 01:16:16.039
the research money. Yeah, I
mean it's very complicated, right, So,

876
01:16:16.199 --> 01:16:18.840
I mean, Accordingly makes an excellent
point there, and of course Dyved

877
01:16:18.840 --> 01:16:25.760
Grush make claims about agreements between elements
of the government and some aspect of whatever

878
01:16:25.760 --> 01:16:29.199
this is. So you know,
I do think that in time we will

879
01:16:29.239 --> 01:16:32.840
know more. But there's a mountain
of seemingly amountain of evidence in the record

880
01:16:33.039 --> 01:16:36.199
about you know, sort of hinting
that there is something to this and some

881
01:16:36.279 --> 01:16:41.119
type of contact. I don't know
how extensive it is, how how active

882
01:16:41.159 --> 01:16:45.319
it is, but there does seem
to be at least elements within the government

883
01:16:45.439 --> 01:16:50.159
or private and or private industry that
have had some degree of contact what that

884
01:16:50.199 --> 01:16:55.720
looks like. And you know,
I have no idea. You know,

885
01:16:55.760 --> 01:16:59.680
it's certainly interesting to speculate about.
For sure, it definitely yeah, I

886
01:16:59.680 --> 01:17:01.680
mean I don't know either. I
told I didn't believe it at all,

887
01:17:02.000 --> 01:17:04.880
I said, I don't I told
Nathan, I don't believe this is true.

888
01:17:05.479 --> 01:17:12.760
And then three things have happened.
One was reading this book and then

889
01:17:14.039 --> 01:17:18.760
uh finding that that interview that Courtney's
familiar with from the early two thousands,

890
01:17:19.359 --> 01:17:26.880
probably more than a decade after he
wrote this book. And then there's a

891
01:17:28.319 --> 01:17:30.720
friend of mine who you guys are
familiar with. It's friends with David Grush,

892
01:17:30.920 --> 01:17:34.960
that's in the intel community. And
that guy told me that he has

893
01:17:35.800 --> 01:17:45.199
in an environment read reports about these
beings that were held in what kind of

894
01:17:45.239 --> 01:17:48.680
things that they experienced, and what
he read was disturbing as a human.

895
01:17:49.279 --> 01:17:54.920
So when he you know, he
sent me, he sent me that book,

896
01:17:55.279 --> 01:17:59.159
and he's sent and I don't think
he sent me the interview. Someone

897
01:17:59.159 --> 01:18:01.279
else did. That might have been
deb that sent me the interview. Somebody

898
01:18:01.279 --> 01:18:04.560
else sent me the interview. But
he sent me the book. And then

899
01:18:05.119 --> 01:18:08.239
he told me that, and I
said, okay, yeah, there must

900
01:18:08.319 --> 01:18:14.359
be something to this. That they
were training people to contact them in the

901
01:18:14.560 --> 01:18:17.199
probably late eighties, and who knows
how long how far it dates back.

902
01:18:17.199 --> 01:18:23.920
Because the thing that makes him really
believable is how he doesn't embellish on what.

903
01:18:24.000 --> 01:18:29.000
He doesn't tell you what he thinks. There's nothing in this book about

904
01:18:29.039 --> 01:18:34.319
what he thinks, only what he
knows. He doesn't know how far back

905
01:18:34.359 --> 01:18:40.479
he goes. He doesn't know how
many intuitive communicators there were. He only

906
01:18:40.560 --> 01:18:43.800
knew the people in the program that
were read in. And when he went

907
01:18:43.840 --> 01:18:47.319
to see mental health, he never
heard from anybody. Again, closed,

908
01:18:47.399 --> 01:18:50.840
done, after accounts closed, don't
come here, don't show up, blah

909
01:18:50.840 --> 01:18:56.600
blah, blah, blah blah.
When he asked about what the information was,

910
01:18:56.680 --> 01:18:59.560
where it would go, that he
would type into a box and hit

911
01:18:59.680 --> 01:19:02.399
send. He has no idea,
don't know where it went, only that

912
01:19:02.560 --> 01:19:06.000
when I figured out what I thought, they were coordinates, and it corroborated

913
01:19:06.279 --> 01:19:10.439
that there were abductions associated with that, I said, I'm out of this

914
01:19:10.520 --> 01:19:15.840
game. That's a done, done
deal over So, but all the things

915
01:19:15.840 --> 01:19:19.319
that you would ask him in an
interview, what about this, what about

916
01:19:19.319 --> 01:19:23.520
that? And what do you think
this? He wouldn't tell you anything about

917
01:19:23.800 --> 01:19:28.359
what he thinks. He just tells
you what he knew to be true based

918
01:19:28.399 --> 01:19:33.840
on his experience. And that was
very powerful, especially you know, you

919
01:19:33.840 --> 01:19:36.960
know, before we go, I
mean, we could take nine minutes here.

920
01:19:38.399 --> 01:19:45.199
But the religious aspect, going back
to this, if everybody wants to

921
01:19:45.920 --> 01:19:59.800
let me put on the spectacles again, an entity, perhaps an entity that

922
01:20:00.119 --> 01:20:09.560
realizes its own existence, has intellect
and therefore must have a soul, anybody,

923
01:20:11.119 --> 01:20:16.039
you know. So here's the thing, right, I've been down the

924
01:20:16.119 --> 01:20:24.359
rabbit hole of what counts as intelligence, and I think that we get really

925
01:20:24.399 --> 01:20:28.520
caught up in what we think of
it in our terms, human terms,

926
01:20:29.039 --> 01:20:32.680
right, So that part I'm not
so attached to. But I do think

927
01:20:33.359 --> 01:20:39.920
if you break things down, things
that have DNA probably have a soul.

928
01:20:40.319 --> 01:20:44.960
And you know, some spiritualities would
disagree with that. They think their spirits

929
01:20:45.199 --> 01:20:48.720
in everything. So I have to
give a NodD to that. But I

930
01:20:48.840 --> 01:20:55.479
do have a feeling that DNA is
a key to the soul, and every

931
01:20:55.720 --> 01:21:01.880
living thing on this earth shares majority
of our DNA. Meaning yeah, and

932
01:21:01.960 --> 01:21:08.279
not to be like rough on humans
too much, but if you look at

933
01:21:08.560 --> 01:21:14.800
how even bacteria interact, you could
be describing humans all the like. It

934
01:21:14.840 --> 01:21:19.960
goes from that's the smallest form of
DNA on our planet. The interactions are

935
01:21:19.960 --> 01:21:27.239
pretty much the same across all species. So although some of them do a

936
01:21:27.239 --> 01:21:30.920
little better than we do, like
the fungus, they're pretty much in the

937
01:21:30.960 --> 01:21:34.439
cooperative mood for the most part,
trying to help each other out, work

938
01:21:34.479 --> 01:21:40.439
on communication. I wish we were
a little bit more like fungus than bacteria

939
01:21:40.560 --> 01:21:53.840
sometimes, but yeah, that's my
perspective. I'm a pretty fun guy.

940
01:21:54.520 --> 01:22:00.479
That book DJ I went and looked
it up. It's Simon and Schu had

941
01:22:00.520 --> 01:22:03.680
the bidding more over the book and
the writer's name of the memoir was Scott

942
01:22:03.720 --> 01:22:06.760
Andrews. I just wanted to I
just wanted to circle back on that because

943
01:22:06.760 --> 01:22:11.600
we transposed the name. Yes we
did, thank you, thank you.

944
01:22:11.720 --> 01:22:15.199
Yeah, that was uh. And
when Lou said that, and he tells

945
01:22:15.239 --> 01:22:19.840
a very similar story of the Air
Force telling him that his history wasn't what

946
01:22:19.920 --> 01:22:25.000
he thought, and then I'd have
to go read that tweet again. I

947
01:22:25.000 --> 01:22:28.520
don't know if anybody finds it,
or if anyone knows is that a similar

948
01:22:28.600 --> 01:22:32.920
narrative or am I conflating the two. We don't know. I think it's

949
01:22:33.000 --> 01:22:38.399
similar. But what's weird is how
often that narrative comes out right and then

950
01:22:38.439 --> 01:22:45.039
if you dig into it, there
really are special schools for gifted children that

951
01:22:45.159 --> 01:22:51.680
you have to like be invited to
essentially after applying. Sometimes there's yeah,

952
01:22:51.720 --> 01:22:59.159
and actually a good example is I
think the guy who created Facebook was in

953
01:22:59.279 --> 01:23:05.239
one of those Hopkins Zuckerberg. Yes, well, there's the whole thing about

954
01:23:05.560 --> 01:23:09.399
Gordon Cooper. He was on the
record about it. I mean, he

955
01:23:09.520 --> 01:23:14.359
was famously quoted talking about the special
schools for the star kids. So there's

956
01:23:14.399 --> 01:23:21.359
other there's other literature that documents this
interesting. Well certainly supports that, uh,

957
01:23:21.479 --> 01:23:28.000
Nathan, we we have been created
from the same oneness and out of

958
01:23:28.000 --> 01:23:34.239
that create creation game intellect and non
intellect. Yeah, it's that kind of

959
01:23:35.760 --> 01:23:39.359
language. I mean, it's it's
a little bit loaded to certain degree,

960
01:23:39.479 --> 01:23:45.439
but you know, it does I
think have parallels with non duality, that

961
01:23:45.279 --> 01:23:48.239
you know that we're all sort of
a part of the same thing. We're

962
01:23:48.279 --> 01:23:55.960
sort of consciousness exploring itself. So
you see those themes popping up pretty often

963
01:23:56.199 --> 01:24:00.840
in the sort of experiencer encounter literature, you know, kind of like Jeff

964
01:24:00.920 --> 01:24:03.119
said, you know, we we
are there, they are us. You

965
01:24:03.159 --> 01:24:09.439
know, God is us, or
there's this very holistic perspective to all all

966
01:24:09.479 --> 01:24:14.840
of life. I'm not so certain
that there's maybe kind of this this stark

967
01:24:14.920 --> 01:24:18.640
dualism between uh, you know,
things that are conscious and things that are

968
01:24:18.680 --> 01:24:25.439
not conscious. I don't know that
i'd necessarily take that perspective. Also when

969
01:24:25.439 --> 01:24:29.720
it comes to the language of the
soul, and that's a very loaded term,

970
01:24:30.079 --> 01:24:32.199
and so it's you know, you
can take that for what you want,

971
01:24:32.199 --> 01:24:38.920
I suppose, but I don't necessarily
adhere to the language of the soul

972
01:24:38.960 --> 01:24:41.439
and the kind of the in the
traditional sense of the term. You know,

973
01:24:41.520 --> 01:24:46.880
there's this sort of like heavenly realm
where souls reside that is, you

974
01:24:46.880 --> 01:24:51.960
know, kind of distinct and apart
from reality itself. So yeah, it's

975
01:24:51.960 --> 01:24:57.640
interesting, though, interesting to kind
of get that in the record, and

976
01:24:57.720 --> 01:25:00.000
I think that those exchanges are fascinating. You know, we have people that

977
01:25:00.399 --> 01:25:03.600
claim to have spoken with with these
beings and ask these types of questions,

978
01:25:03.600 --> 01:25:08.960
and the responses we get are often
kind of cryptic in that way, but

979
01:25:09.000 --> 01:25:13.399
they're also, I think, to
a certain degree, interpret heavily interpreted.

980
01:25:13.479 --> 01:25:17.720
Right. So Dan Sherman and that
example, is heavily interpreting what he's getting,

981
01:25:17.720 --> 01:25:21.920
because I think he described the method
by which he gets communications necessarily like

982
01:25:23.000 --> 01:25:28.399
it's words per se. It's almost
like imagery that he's kind of deciphering in

983
01:25:28.479 --> 01:25:32.279
his own words to make sense of
it all, which adds adds to his

984
01:25:32.319 --> 01:25:36.239
credibility, right, because he could
say that this is what he told me,

985
01:25:36.840 --> 01:25:43.840
but he's telling you it's only his
interpretation of all of that imagery into

986
01:25:44.319 --> 01:25:48.239
then putting it into English, which
what could get lost in there? Oh

987
01:25:48.279 --> 01:25:53.039
I'm sorry, go ahead, ma'am. I just wanted to share something.

988
01:25:53.079 --> 01:25:57.439
I don't normally talk about this too
much, but you know, when I

989
01:25:57.479 --> 01:26:03.079
was doing meditation, which essentially because
it was just too weird, but one

990
01:26:03.119 --> 01:26:12.520
thing that happened was I was like
shown that we all have within us God

991
01:26:12.920 --> 01:26:16.439
essentially like but they didn't call it
God. And then I say they because

992
01:26:16.479 --> 01:26:25.479
in my experience there were entities there. They said that we all have the

993
01:26:25.560 --> 01:26:30.359
source, the God source inside of
us, and I took that to mean

994
01:26:30.960 --> 01:26:36.640
perhaps it is really literally ingrained in
our DNA and that's what connects everything.

995
01:26:36.920 --> 01:26:41.399
So I just wanted to explain that
a little further. Like there, it's

996
01:26:41.479 --> 01:26:45.960
like a cosmic universe, right,
it's an internet, so to speak,

997
01:26:46.079 --> 01:26:49.800
So we are all a part of
that. We're all like little nudes.

998
01:26:51.000 --> 01:26:58.439
But that's just I was just a
meditation thing. So but other people said

999
01:26:58.479 --> 01:27:03.279
it too. I think that's dope. And it's also leads to where we

1000
01:27:03.359 --> 01:27:10.239
program with this sort of propensity to
argue, fight, kill to keep the

1001
01:27:10.279 --> 01:27:14.920
population of the planet under control,
because obviously, if everybody was trying to

1002
01:27:14.960 --> 01:27:18.319
help everybody, I mean, who
knows what would have happened to the population

1003
01:27:18.479 --> 01:27:23.039
and what the planet could support.
I don't know if that's something that's been

1004
01:27:23.079 --> 01:27:26.439
there. But let's let's let's take
what Julie's had to say here. I

1005
01:27:26.479 --> 01:27:30.840
was in a gifted program called Project
Up, So Jules, you'll have to

1006
01:27:30.119 --> 01:27:35.079
tell us about that. But let
me go to your next point. And

1007
01:27:35.600 --> 01:27:40.640
okay, here it is, okay, not even sure, well one of

1008
01:27:40.640 --> 01:27:43.760
you guys can read, I don't
put on these glasses again. Look like

1009
01:27:43.840 --> 01:27:46.399
I'm in a drive in theater.
I'm not even sure why they had it,

1010
01:27:46.439 --> 01:27:49.520
but they gave us a pass that
we could go on our own chill

1011
01:27:49.600 --> 01:27:54.960
out space with the stereo and bay
window and stuff when we were done in

1012
01:27:55.000 --> 01:27:58.920
regular class with nothing to do.
So she's talking about the program to give

1013
01:27:59.039 --> 01:28:04.000
to the program. It sounds like
a good party to me. Yeah,

1014
01:28:04.079 --> 01:28:08.239
Jewels, you ought to tell us
a little more about your program. I

1015
01:28:08.279 --> 01:28:14.640
know Jules is from Indiana, so
I don't know where where this where this

1016
01:28:14.800 --> 01:28:18.720
was at, but but yeah,
I'd like to hear more about that.

1017
01:28:18.800 --> 01:28:23.640
Jules will have to have a call. But anyway, it's time to cut

1018
01:28:23.640 --> 01:28:28.079
the Cabby's loose out this joint from
after Cab. But I just figured we

1019
01:28:28.119 --> 01:28:34.800
could talk about Untold Radio network.
We'll have some graphics for our next show,

1020
01:28:35.840 --> 01:28:39.319
and we'll be ready to party with. Who do you we got coming

1021
01:28:39.399 --> 01:28:45.039
up next? Nathan? Are we
partying with? Next calendar? I just

1022
01:28:45.079 --> 01:28:47.720
went away on the intelligence yes,
ma'am, please, I didn't get to

1023
01:28:47.880 --> 01:28:54.960
but I think trees and other forms
of being that might necessarily not have DNA,

1024
01:28:55.239 --> 01:29:00.119
I would consider them intelligent. Interesting. Wait DNA? What does it

1025
01:29:00.199 --> 01:29:04.680
have DNA? I need to know, like obviously we know Rocks, right,

1026
01:29:05.039 --> 01:29:10.800
they don't. But but yeah,
let me know if you want to

1027
01:29:10.800 --> 01:29:15.840
pass that information on to me,
Courtney, I need to know, Okay,

1028
01:29:15.960 --> 01:29:24.239
So Bob Pluskin. Yeah, so
yeah, we will have x Oh

1029
01:29:24.439 --> 01:29:30.800
look at this Danny Danny Danny Smith
of the Story of podcast. We're going

1030
01:29:30.840 --> 01:29:33.600
to have those guys on. He's
just messaging me that episode's going to drop

1031
01:29:33.600 --> 01:29:38.159
tonight, which means you all probably
won't want to listen to it because I'm

1032
01:29:38.199 --> 01:29:43.439
on it. Uh but talking Bigfoot. But these guys are really cool and

1033
01:29:43.720 --> 01:29:47.920
we'll have them on on CAB.
So yeah, Sean Munger, who is

1034
01:29:48.000 --> 01:29:56.560
a man you want to talk about, a passionate, fiery government person that

1035
01:29:56.760 --> 01:30:01.720
is an advocate of Oh well no, that is an advocate of the phenomenon

1036
01:30:02.159 --> 01:30:09.119
that is Sean Munger. And I
would not want to be Sean Kirkpatrick in

1037
01:30:09.159 --> 01:30:15.119
a room alone with Sean Monger anyway. So thanks a lot, guys,

1038
01:30:15.159 --> 01:30:18.840
any any parting shots before we sign
out? Yeah, I wanted to say,

1039
01:30:18.880 --> 01:30:24.000
and it's funny that Courtney used the
term the program and that that came

1040
01:30:24.119 --> 01:30:30.359
up. I think that when we
are talking about the actual government working with

1041
01:30:30.079 --> 01:30:36.279
UAPs, the term the program is
what they tend to use, which is

1042
01:30:36.319 --> 01:30:41.159
really interesting. It's like that's the
code for it. Yeah, it was

1043
01:30:41.159 --> 01:30:45.319
also a sports movie back in the
early two thousands about steroid use, but

1044
01:30:45.439 --> 01:30:50.920
that's besides the point. Thank you
money, Nathan, any party shots before

1045
01:30:50.920 --> 01:30:54.199
we go. You know, I
just had a great time in the show

1046
01:30:54.239 --> 01:30:57.760
today. Great having good jump back
with us, and also great being with

1047
01:30:57.760 --> 01:31:00.960
all of you guys. Looking forward
to the next one, and yeah,

1048
01:31:01.000 --> 01:31:04.000
looking forward to being part of the
Untold Radio network. Also, thank you

1049
01:31:04.239 --> 01:31:10.520
everyone for listening and watching and following
along with our show as we've been on

1050
01:31:10.560 --> 01:31:13.640
this journey with you. And if
you like the show, I want to

1051
01:31:13.640 --> 01:31:15.399
hear more, please do give us
a like and subscribe. It does help

1052
01:31:15.479 --> 01:31:19.479
the show. I know we are
transitioning to a new network, but it

1053
01:31:19.560 --> 01:31:26.239
does help us stay in touch with
you until we do so. Courtney Connected.

1054
01:31:28.159 --> 01:31:31.640
I loved learning about learning more about
everyone, Like Nathan. I didn't

1055
01:31:31.680 --> 01:31:36.119
know about your theological history and seminary
and everything. It was nice to learn

1056
01:31:36.159 --> 01:31:40.600
a little bit about your background and
your perspective of where you're coming from.

1057
01:31:41.000 --> 01:31:45.520
And it's always just nice to be
involved with the Cabby crew learning and growing

1058
01:31:45.600 --> 01:31:49.399
and being part of the crew.
It's very it's very enlightening in many ways,

1059
01:31:49.479 --> 01:31:54.880
just to have these conversations. It's
an honor and pleasure to have you.

1060
01:31:55.319 --> 01:31:57.920
We do it a little bit differently, but we do it. So,

1061
01:31:58.640 --> 01:32:01.159
Julie, thank you so much for
being in the chat tonight. I'm

1062
01:32:01.199 --> 01:32:04.239
sorry we didn't get to more.
We had some very long winded answers.

1063
01:32:04.600 --> 01:32:09.119
I had a whole back I had
a couple more follow ups because you guys

1064
01:32:09.159 --> 01:32:13.359
asked such great questions that I wanted
to follow up on more of them than

1065
01:32:13.520 --> 01:32:15.640
just Courtney's. But I was like, man, I gotta gotta keep passing

1066
01:32:15.680 --> 01:32:21.039
the baton, baby. So for
Courtney, connected for Tubs, and for

1067
01:32:21.279 --> 01:32:26.479
Nathan, this is djay is saying
peace out, one love, We'll see

1068
01:32:26.479 --> 01:32:29.880
you down the road. And as
always, we're wondering what's up around the Bend.