Dark Destinations may be end times Night's creature. Why would a few more casually
struggle me because of their blood? Will join yours a radio drama anthology.
You are wrong how you figure Every mark on Mongo is hunting you down,
not you, your partner, he said, I didn't have a ray gun.
Full cast performances set in the haunted corners of the globe. Darkness is
coming for you. That's the fear that taunts me. Dark Destinations by fatherm
Alone at Weirdingwaymedia dot com weird Welcome back midnight viewers to Anthologies Attack, where
we peer outside the horror genre to experience anthologies and all their very glory and
as always helping me share them midnight view as my co host. He's yours
too, Antonio lapoor Ola Padre Malone. Tonight is part two of our look
at the anthology episodes of the groundbreaking Batman, the animated series. Previously,
we talked about season one's Almost Got Him that featured five tales of Batman as
told by the Rogues Gallery of Villains. This one's a little different. Three
tales by entirely different narrators, and the third tale is actually just their tale
in the end, we are looking at legends of the Dark Night. This
originally aired on October the tenth, nineteen ninety eight, written by Bob Goodman
from a story by Goodman and Bruce Ten. Although there are three previous Batman
legends mentioned as the whole episode is inspired by the works of Bill Finger,
Dick Sprang, and Frank Miller was also it was also directed by Dan Reeve.
And it's kind of loosely based on a seventies Batman comic, and that's
about Bruce Wayne, and he takes these kids camping, as billionaire philanthropists I
guess, are known to do to take random children camping, and they are
all discussing, well, what do you think Batman's like? In one little
kid's well, I think Batman has kind of like like Jim Brown, the
famed movie star football player and who's decked out of all these ten year and
all this stuff. And the other guy, well, I think Batman is
more like kind of a vampire character, and I think Batman looks more like
what you imagine Man batted. And all of a sudden Batman shows up and
they're like, dude, mister Wayne, where'd you get that cheap ass Batman
costume and he's like, well, it looks like Mike costume is only meant
to frighten criminals and not the innocent, And then they go back to the
roasting marshmallows. I kind of love that though, waits showing Hey everybody,
I'm Batman and nobody believed it. Yeah, yeah, it's it's a great
it's a great. It was a great classic. But this episode, I
remember when it dropped, I'm thinking, I recommend it, but I love
this episode. It's might be my favorite of the whole series. Well,
no, I love Robin's reckoning and heart of ice in the original show,
but if the new episodes his neat for the main reason of just the varying
art styles, the way you get to see, you know, basically the
two most influential kind of mini eras of Batman, the classic Dick Sprang era
from the fifties, where when you think of old timey Batman, that's generally
what people think of, giant typewriters, big smile on Batman's face. You
know what the Adam West Show ultimately was, I think came out of basically
of that Dick Sprang art era, which still Bill Finger was writing because Bill
Finger wrote it from the original Detective run and he wrote pretty much straight through
up until the sixties, when then he got, you know, forced out
in favor of the younger hippie generation. Like everything else. You know,
I've read I reread the Mankowitz script from nineteen eighty three, his version of
The Batman, and it was it is one from the Bill Finger Dick Sprang
era. He's just more serious in it, but still he Mankawitz just unloads
with the joker. The joker is a joker in this thing. He is
one liner machining. Yeah, the entire script, and mank is really good
at that. I mean he wrote when he led he wrote Superman. Everybody
old Mario Pooso's the script was awful. Mario Puoso basically wrote an episode of
The Batman Show and getting four hundred pages one hundred pages of it. And
I remember this old documentary on a Dick Donner was like, He's like,
don't want to see Superman be made a fool of That was his mantra in
the movie. We're not making Superman to be a fool in this movie.
And Poozo, but poo Z those deal being Boozo, you know, writing
The Godfather. His deal was iron plaid and mank was brought in as a
creative consultant. But Tom maykowoins wrought supermantent. And my two favorite James Bond
movies, which one is did He Right? Live and Let Die? Oh?
Yeah, no shit? And The Man with the Golden Gun. The
Man with the Golden the best music and like the most like because that disco
hit with the Man with the Golden Gun. And oh man, it's so
good. It's Lulu is it Lulu? Oh in the British pop sensation.
Yeah, absolutely, the craziest Christopher Lescaramenga and of course Livin Lande is Paul
mccar. The score of the picture is the best James Bond score out of
all of the films. You think, so that George Martin, This is
George Martin. I was it John Berry does on Her Majesty Secret Service?
Was it John Barry? Yeah? John Barry was still Yeah on a magoed
Secret Service is pretty good because that was got the you know, we've all
the time in the world, the Louis Armstones, but liv leed Die is
just got the coolest music. It is such a dated picture, and like
the attitudes in it are ridiculous. But you know, black folks, Sorry,
James Bond movie, that's pretty in nineteen seventy four, that's pretty progressive,
even though they're the bad guys and it's ridiculous, it's silly. Those
faces are still on the screen and they're breaking ground. And I gotta tell
you, Scaramenga not Scaramenga, what's his name in uh ros Anga? I
guess that was the Anga phase of Bond is really good. Oh my god,
he's my favorite Bond villain. He is so evil and he's so arrogant,
and he's so ridiculous with that mister big makeup, Like what the fuck
was I Oh my god, I love it. He's so crazy as a
character and he's so fun and it's yeafic codo for fuck's faith. Yeah,
is a fucking Bond villain that nobody The movie gets written off now because of
all its problematicness. Yeah, and you know you have a right to do
that. But I think the spirit of the thing was not racist. I
think the spirit of the thing was subversive. I think Mankowitz was like,
let's stick at black people in everyone's faces, and like, yes, they're
the villains in this fucking piece, but you know what, the every Bond
movie previous was all white guys and anyways, they're yeah, they're the villains,
but you know, they're kind of like anti imperialist villains to a certain
degree. There's a certain sexiness to their motivation to a certain movie like funck
the White Man. Look, we're from eighty or from more the hell they
were san Monique, san Monique were this you know, probably this British protectorate
or have you that's gone through all this horrible things. Look. For me,
the more racist thing is that there just aren't more black people in all
the rest of the James Bond movies. I'm sorry that they're all villains here,
but the sheer number of black faces on screen in nineteen seventy three,
yeah, YEAHU Look. The thing is the parallels between Bond and batmanner sort
of fucking and especially in the seventies, was a big thing for Denny O'Neill
was to like kind of like Fond was cool, and he's, well,
let's make Batman a little bit cooler. So they added that kind of international
player with rayshaw Ghoul and a lot of that, and the legal assassins and
doctor sins in a couple of these international villains, yeah, doctor, yeah
Man. And but for the most part, you know that seventies Batman eventually
got back to Gotham City, you know, like with that that Terry Austin,
Marshall Rogers art and I think Michael Barber, I can't remember that side
of the Joker thing that that era kind of brought him back to Gotham,
and Rayshawqull pops up every now and then. Yeah, I've stayed in the
previous episode. My feelings, Yeah, you don't like I mean, it's
okay, I get it, but I don't want to spend any time in
that. I don't like to spend too much time with him just a little
bit. And I just want Batman patrolling the rooftops of a gothic Gotham and
like swooping down on villains and then a villain coming to town and fucking shit
up. That's all I need. He I think it's dead. We got
Danian out of it, and that's fine as long as I guess. I'm
a big Damien fan on this show. It was Tim Drake, but it
was a mishmash of Tim Drake and Jason Todd's origin or whatever. But I
like this little kid Robin on this show a lot too. So in the
original initial run, in the initial run of Batman, the animated series,
that's Dick Grayce. Yeah, and Dick's nineteen. He's away at college and
that's why he's only in a handful of episodes. So by the time we
get to the New Adventures of Batman or Batman's New Adventures, that's Tim Drake
as Robin. And I know, night Wing shows up, so we get
Dick Grayson as well. Yeah, we get night winged. And that was
the first time night Wing had appeared anywhere outside of comics. Have we skipped
Jason tom Yeah, they skive Jason Todd. They did it. I think
they did a comic book follow up to this season a couple of years ago,
and you know, they wreck conned Jason Todd and Red Hood in between
the Tim Drake and that's flame Man. They just make a hannimated movie.
Then this is Jason time. Now. You know what, no matter who
Robin had been at that moment, if it had been carry Kelly, she
would have died. Yea. Everyone wanted Robin to die. Everybody, but
you know, and I know a little off track, but the Robin that
Jason Todd death of Robin, and if you read interviews with some of the
writers and editors and stuff like Danny and you especially like that was kind of
like his death kind of like organically happened, almost like they had written this
new character into the book and he showed up. But he was a redheaded
plone of Dick Grayson circus parents all that, you know, the same origin
killer Kroc had killed his parents or something like that. And then within a
year or two the crisis happened, the one on Infinite Earths, the one
on Infinite Earth, the same very one. The comic book series that got
me into comics just fascinated and just like the amount of superheroes and that existed.
I just knew there were seven guys of the super Friends, and all
of a sudden there was a thousand superheroes. But anyways, that being said,
they revamped everybody and rebooted comics. Will be rebooting comics thirty years before,
yeah, he fifty one hundred years. I think the first reboot was
the Silver Age at DC. First you had the Golden Age, you know,
Buckethead Flash and Purple Cake, Green Lantern, and then all of a
sudden you got hal Jordan and Barry Alice the first pin of reboot. And
then in the eighties they rebooted again. They took their vast multi verses squeezed
them into one. Everybody got a new origin. Jason Town. Jason Todd
was now a street orphan whose dad had been murdered by two Face, and
Batman met him after he was boosting the wheels off the Batmobile. Tim Drake
got that origin on the cartoon. Oh okay, Tim Drake in the comic
books was Bruce Wayne's neighbor and he liked he was and he was a little
boy at the circus when Dick Grayson's parents died and he figured it out.
And then when the whole baby the Bat's got to admire the kids pluck right.
Yeah, he's known as the smart he's the smartest Robin. Oh okay,
Yeah, But on this show, I like, I don't care,
it doesn't matter. I like the fact that there's like an eleven year old
Robin on this show and it's really neat. In this episode, we get
Dick Grayson and Mary Kelly. Yeah, we got three robins text. Yeah,
don't he's not tim episode. But this episode is cool because, like
I said, it's based on that old comic from the seventies. I can't
remember what it's called comic what the original com fifth ky I got this when
the movie came out, right before when the movie on that time, this
player had a man bat over Vegas story in it. It's called so that
it's based kind of loosely on the on a Batman short story called The Batman
Nobody Knows By written by Frank Robbins. Was like, I'm not too familiar
with this work. Seventies comic author probably and art by the famed Dit Giordango.
Yeah, he is, like you, premiere inker in DC comics from
the seventies, eighties and into the nineties. And he was a pretty good
penciler too. He did a lot of Batman stuff stuff looks a little bit
like Jimmy Parrow's as that kind of traditional kind of looking Batman. And he
was the publisher of the Editor in Chief too. That's where I mainly knew
him from. And then you know, obviously later what marvelous talent he was.
He was just like this look Levable guy looked like super Mario. Yeah,
hey, they's other pictures of the comic. So that's kind of loosely
based on it. And as we said a little earlier, you know sees
Bruce Wayne takes these kids camping and they all kind of give their idea of
what Batman. But in this episode, it's a little more organic. It's
a little more organic. It's three little kids wandering around Gotham City and there
and one of them looks like Kerry Kelly actually, and that pretty much is
y K. I'm sure her story is just her fantasy of Batman talking,
well, what do you think Batman play? And the first, you know,
the first kid starts talking and he's like, well, my uncle's a
security guard at the bankers oh no, at the museum, and he saw
Batman and Robin and he says, Batman's really nice and he makes jokes and
he does this and that and then also and we all know that ba yes,
because here it is yes and no hear me. He's describing the Batman
that if you know you're in our neighborhood of age, the first Batman you
ever saw was Adam weist and that Adam West looks fun and all, you
know, smiling and all stuff. And like I said earlier, the Adam
West Show took a lot from the Dick Sprang art era of Batman. Yeah,
not only did it sort of ape the style just visually the way they
sent decorated and the costumes and everything, but the animated opening sequence of Batman
the Great Tease, Yes, that was the animated opening sequence because I just
wanted a cartoon to find that's the exact style of art they're presenting to us
here, as when we go into the first tale, this is the Dick
Sprang look. So you probably have some familiarity with it, even if you
haven't seen this episode, if you've ever seen the Adam West cartoon. And
so each of these stories, I like this one better than Almost Got Him,
because here we get the different flavors of Batman, a little villain.
Yeah, but the voice is even because here they've cast Gary Owens as Batman,
who is the voice of the fifty sixty. We've got your clue about
stealing lefter, but comedy is finished. A famous line from Pallayachi the Opera
got a sad clown and Michael McKean as the joker Truth be Told, strings
never wear my section. I'm much better on the keys, doing a very
Jack Benny sounding jokers. They're like, oh, that sounds like Jack Benny.
It's Jack Benny punched with something else. Yeah, Michael mckein's really good
at bining voices and doing Have you ever heard his Vincent price? No,
it is the greatest Vincent price you will ever hear. Oh wow, I
gotta find that. But I thought as soon as he started talking, I
was like, oh, thank god, Michael McKean is. Yeah, he'll
get exactly the tone that they're shooting for, which is that sort of more
whimsical Batman. They like, come on jump and the Robin is sounding a
little kid's voice. It's the same little kid who's telling the story, isn't
it. Yeah, I know it might be a separate act. It might
be a separate actor. Okay, we'll have to we'll have to google that
one. But it's got the giant typewriter or the giant prop space and stuff
in it. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, but yeah, it's the
music means oh, it's the piano keys. Yeah, the giant piano keys.
It's all like the daring do and Cliffhangery kind of stuff that we expected
from comics up until nineteen eighty five. Yeah, and just but the artist
really pretty. Oh my god, it's gorgeous. Look giveing that old joker
with the smile that seems to be larger than his face and the big old
cheeks. Yeah, I love it. I love it. The that style
kind of evolved into what a Batman and the Brave and the Bold became,
which is a kid is you know, really aimed at seven year olds.
I know a little eight year little boy who like that's just that was his
first Batman and he loved it. But I watched that show and that show
Great Man. Yeah, it's like a banana sequel to the Adam Was show
almost. That's another favorite voints there for me. He's so fucking good.
He's not. He's a different Yeah, the Hovers of Justice. So you
are sick, like it's really good. But it's that kind of same Dick
sprangy On style that you see in this little bit, and it's just a
neat, little three minute short. You know, it's just really cool.
I like you a lot. I know this season there's another anthology kind of
episode. There's the holiday one and they but that one is just two or
three stories. It's like Harley and Ivy with Bruce Wayne and I think something
with the Joker on New Year's Eve, and then I think Clay something,
Clay face or something. But this is an adulos. It's three separate little
short stories. But there it's all. It's not as interesting as this one.
This one has a really cool framing device, and the framing device puts
the kids in the imaginary space and we get to see history, a little
mini history. We get to see a golden age Batman with the Dick Sprang
look and the old kind of classic Bill Finger dialogue, Come on, old
chum, that type of stuff. And like you said, Michael mckein's joker,
what a great live action joker. He would have been, Oh my
god, I know he's so he's so long, and that face and the
eyebrowns right like David Saint Hubbins era. Michael mc as the joke. If
they had made the ink Witz script, Michael McKean would be the perfect joker.
Is the joker like running from mayor or somebody's or Thomas Wayne was at
the In the opening, Thomas Wayne is running for mayor and Joe Chill does
kill him, but he does it at the behest of the Joker. But
he's already the Joker. Oh, he's like, there's no Yeah. His
opening is like a shade being drawn in a window and someone giggling in the
darkness. So yeah, yeah, he's the Joker. I read that.
Wow, I hit twenty something years ago. I like, when the internet
first existed. That was one of the first things I'd hunted down, like
drew script rama or something like that. Oh man, and read that.
Man, the transcripts drive me crazy. I don't need your transcript I can
watch the movie. I can hear what they're saying. What did they intend
for the ants to say? Yeah, I want to see where it differs.
I don't want to see the shooting draft either. No, give me
the fucking that the draft that they shot them actually shot the movie with.
Yeah, because so so for so. You know, Father Malone and I
both have you know, backgrounds in movie making a little bit. We know
how scripts work, and we've written a few ourselves, and I've made a
movie and stuff. When a movie comes out, they when we gets made
they have the script that they're gonna make the movie off of, right,
and then when the movie's done, they go back and take the movie and
make that into the script, so that there's a script of the movie that's
exactly what you see on screen, but that's not the script they used.
They shot the picture, and they published those scripts like yeas books, yes,
if that was the script, and they're like, you learned how a
script's supposed to work and all that stuff, but you don't see how a
script actually is that you actually make a movie. I go, I can
tell you it's just the short film I'm making. Now there's the script I
got, and what the script that I have that I've made any edit.
I always thought when they published those shooting scripts that it should be printed on
alternate the first the shoot, the actual script right before they film, Yeah,
could be printed on alternate pages so you can just see the differences.
Like he was gonna say this, well, something happened on set, and
now he's saying this, but I do. The cool thing is the Star
Wars scripts, on the other hand, that I had as a kid that
I got, you know, the annotated screenplays and copies, those were actually
the fucking scripts they made the movie off of, because there are a lot
of differences going on. They're longer, although you know, there's no like
stuff like Blue five, but they're pretty close though there's like I remember,
the scripts themselves were a little different. Yeah, and a lot of times
I look those things. That's how I learned how to write scripts. I
mean, yeah, it's those books and those like annotated ones are really good.
Now listen, the plot of the fifties inspired sprang Finger number is totally
irrelevant. It's just a little pop confection. But I got to ask Antony
when that one comes to an end the first time you're watching it, I'm
sure you were like me, when is that? Carrie Kelly? Kept asking
myself, did they just do I know that aircuts tribute to Carrie Kelly?
I don't know as soon as but before that, oh, are we talking
about the cameo? Yeah, they run into another little kid who's like long,
stringy white hair, and he's got a boa wrapped around him and he's
just feeling and he's just like, hey, who's talking about Batman? I
love Batman? All those muscles, the tight rubber armor and that flashy car
I heard it can drive up walls. Yes, sure, Joel, Hey,
what happened to Cozy's the ARSONI hast happened. You should have seen the
fire. It was fabulous, clearly, Joel Schumacher. This is coming out
in nineteen ninety eight, a few months after that fucking awful movie Eliot Batman
Forever, for all its terribleness, is at least trying to be good some
bulk because that opening scene with two faces really good. I agree, that's
my favorite part of the movie. My favorite part of that film, which
is almost redeems the movie, is the you need hell parvey. Yeah.
That exchange. Yes, Holy God. The familiarity between these lunatic yes was
so real for me, like it brought that comic like screamingly to life.
And Tommy Jones' performance, which is understated and subdued in that beginning scene when
he's talking to the guy and he's saying, we want to do this and
we want to do that, I'm like, you can almost forgive him for
not being Billy Dy Williams, but I can't forget. And I can't forget
because the rest of the performance is just it's just awful. It's just trying
to compete with Jim Carrey and he's just doing the joker. They're both just
doing the Yeah, they're both just doing the joker. And I thought that
Tommy Y. Jones could not santion his buffoonery. And he's worse. He's
worse. I'm like, dude, you have an oscar Why did you take
this role? Why did why? Why is this? Did nobody get Like
we talked about this last time. We were talking about the when they were
coming up with the script for Batman Returns. Why didn't he crack a comic
book. Harvey Dent is a scary motherfucker. He should have been a dark
heart at the center of that movie. Here's just another cackling villain from the
sixties. I don't think they've ever gotten Harveydent quite right. In The Dark
Night. It's pretty close, but we get two seconds of it. We
get two seconds of him, and he doesn't evolve into two face. He's
just fucked up. Harvey Dent getting revenge and yeah, he's doing the coin
and he's being you know, murderers and stuff. But Harvey Dent's the district
attorney who becomes a crime boss. Yeah, the appearance that we got in
that movie. It's all reacting. Yeah, and I want to see what
Harvey Dent does from the get go on screen and you know, robbing the
Second National Bank on the second of February. Okay, that's pretty too facey
as he can get. That opening scene is great and even ends with the
blink put or the helicopter with the ying yaning painting on it and it crosses
into the Statue of Freedom. Okay, why the movie's still through the old
movies, they all thought Gotham was New York City for some reason or the
other. It's always a most important city in the country. I'm like,
no, it's New Jersey. Well, I think that we all thought that
because I was one of them, because the city of New York is often
referred to as go. Well, naturally it's an East Coast city. Blah
blah blah. I've always liked the idea that it's Chicago occupies the space of
Chicago versus metropolis. Yeah, yeah, that's pretty cool. I just don't
like Gotham City being in the Midwest. Yeah, there's something about it being
a landlocked that doesn't suit the back I'll eight. I also by the way,
do not like the idea that it's like San Francisco and Sacramento, that
Gotham and Metropolis can see each other with binoculars. Yeah, that was a
weird thing that I that Zack Snyder did among his many weird things, that
was really weird. I like all from convenience so on. Thing I did
like is he made Metropolis a district rather than a part of a state.
But that's just in the minutia because you know, I sometimes the manusia is
better than the munus in the movie, but clearly there. Yeah, and
it was like a Metropolis. It was Metropolis MC, like the district of
you know. Okay, that is clever. I'll give him that DM Metropolis
DM the district of Metropolis and Gotham was something I don't know. But them
being over the bay is stupid. Well, then why does protecting Gotham Exactly?
Can't Superman protecting area just greater than Metropolis, like when he's listening to
what's happening in China at the theory was America that Gotham is basically in New
Jersey. All of the the everything you find in Gotham, you find it
in New Jersey to a certain degree, the refineries and such. Yeah,
and the abandoned amusement miles and like all the fuck up Atlantic City ship.
That Atlantic City's a dump now, isn't it. It's not like what you
saw on TV in the eighties. It's not like you know, so is
the mythology. Then that there's Gotham, which is close to New York,
which is close to Metropolis. Yeah, Metropolis is a mayor in the comic
oh is it? Yeah? Okay, see with learning here stuff, And
Gotham was New Jersey because New York exists in the comet and in the DC
Earth, new York is there. That's where the Titans were based out of
when I was a little kid and stuff. But you know, geography is
everything the DC comics. Earth is supposed to be a hair bigger than Ourners.
It would have to be, just like it's something in the like in
the multiverse, it's bigger than our Earth, which I think is Earth prime
or Earth zero or whatever the hell is. Comic book launchic is the best
kind of logic if you like that kind of stuff, If you like to
think that the multiverse and what you exist in, check out anything Grant Morrison
has done in DC in like the last twenty years. He did a run
with something called the Multiversity, which is just insane. It's just this trip
to the multiverse that makes the reader part of the multiverse, so like you're
engaging in this. He's all into mysticism and stuff. But it's really interesting
and I'm a big fan of his Batman run. Everybody likes to take from
Frank Miller, but my favorite Batman run, aside from what I grew up
on, my adult favor Grant Morrison stuff is just cool because it's Grant Morrison's
comics gets you everything. They give you funny, they give you drugged out,
they give you weird, they give you hard boiled, they give you
detective, they give you mystic they give you international, they give you site
Like he governs everything to him. Batman's entire comic book run has been Batman's
career, so he's had I may have said in the last episode he had
weird adventures in the sixties. He had a weird adventure, you know,
like his adventures are condensed into however old he is in the comics net forty
something now, that's pretty cool. But going back. Everyone nice to borrow
with Frank Miller, because Frank Miller did The Dark Knight Returns. And everybody
loves Dark Knight Returns, especially the creators of this episode clearly and how gay?
How agog were you when I didn't know this was coming? Yeah,
how could any of us prey? Yeah? And we eventually and we eventually
got a movie based on it. But this was the first time he ever
saw The Dark Knight Returns in motion, I guess, yeah, animated and
of the style they gets so perfect. Yeah, it translates really well and
almost does it a little better than the comic tit's to a certain degree.
Is it's just it's fluid, so you know, the comic is real sketchy.
Klaus Jensen, you know, Frank Miller does a pencils, but Klaus
Jensen never gets the credit for the art on that and that. Have you've
seen Klars Jensen pencil is owning. Think his own pencils looks like The Dark
Knight Returns. His art looks more like The Dark Knight Returns than Frank Miller
does, almost to it to a certain degree. But that's but nevertheless the
impact of that book is huge. It's Yeah, it's monumental. Everybody borrows
from that comic. I mean, clearly the biggest imitator was Zack Snyder,
who just lifted scenes whole sale. Yeah, and just showing once again that
he had no actual understanding what any of those scenes meant and their importance,
and he just got the mythic part of it and the badassory of it.
And I'm just gonna before going off on another battangent. And I like a
lot of the visual stuff that he does, and I like the longer version
of Batman v. Superman. Agreed, it's a better film, and I
like seeing the characters, but I can't think gets some fucked up too,
his angry Superman and murdery Batman. And had they just taken some time away
from slow motion and spent a scene or two explaining why Batman is satur and
he sees a Robin costume. Because he explained that a little bit, you'd
understand why Batman is not branding people in kind of murdery. Because the whole
point of The Dark Knight Returns is Batman quits because Jason Todd get killed by
the Joker, which ultimately ended up happening in the comics. Yeah, that
was appreciant of the book, right, And that happened because well, the
Dark Night Reterns existed and they had written themselves into a corner. In that
reboot of After the Crisis, Jason Todd is just a really obnoxious little character
and he just kind of got to a point that he was gonna get himself
killed regardless. And they made it a choice to the fans to call in
a nine hundred number and the fans and I couldn't do it. I wasn't
gonna ask my mom to let me call a nine hundred number to vote to
see if Robin now would have got Robin Linder died and I was sad because
I wanted him to live, because was he a dead Robin? You could
have counted No, it was not going to but it had That explained how
broken up Bruce Wayne was after losing a Robin that he had to retire,
and when he came back, it was so bad that he had evolved into
a neater. Batman might have played a little better, but he wasn't adapted
to the Dark Knight returns. He was doing whatever the fuck he was doing.
And this show does it a little better. This show condenses the Newtant
fight down into a five minute sequence with Kerry Kelly, you know, and
just hits the highlights and gets the artwork so good. But the best thing,
it is the best, the coolest non Kevin Conroy Batman ever in Michael
irons Yeah, that voice coming out of that Batman. I don't understand why
they didn't cast him when they did the animated movie a few years ago.
Peter Weller was great in it, but they would Liar's side is still kicking
and still sounds like that. He plays dark Side on Justice League and Superman
and is the best. He is the best, but as his Batman.
When I heard Peter Weller's version of this version of Batman, the Dark Knight
Returns because there's a two part animated film of the Dark Knight, and I
thought, oh man, he's so good. This is almost a perfect older
Batman. Yeah, and then I heard Michael ironsides for five minutes and thought
this effortlessly doing what Weller was trying to get at. Yeah, and nothing
against Peter Weller, I mean, he's just being Peter Weller being Batman.
But Michael Ironstein's voice just for that version of Batman older meanher, but like
he not only gets that sort of gravelly anger behind the bat but here's a
line from the comic that I always liked but could never hear correctly in my
head, which was rubber bullets. Honest. Now in the comic he's talking
to us. Yeah, it's part of the voiceover which the two part animated
movie, which I think is wint but it's not a one hundred percent accent
because it doesn't have the fucking voiceover in it, and the voiceover is what
makes the Dark Knight returns almost. That's why I actually don't recommend the aimated
film because the I mean, maybe you can enjoy it without that, but
to me, it was so integral to that book. Yeah, made us
all look at Batman in a different light and they understand him much better.
Because the best Batman movie, my favorite Batman movie is Batman. Your one
is the animated one, because it's literally that comic book, and like he
looks like the comic book, it sounds like that comic book. It has
plucking a Walter White playing commercial Gordon and he's amazing in it, and it's
got even what's his name? The guy who played young Commissioner Gordon On Bryan
Bryan Cranston was in it. Yeah, Brian Kanison place commision order. But
the guy who plays young Jim Wardon on Gotham, Oh, Ben McKenzie,
Ben McKenzie great, Oh he was really Yeah, that was a weird one.
And it's got the voiceover in it. And the fact that it's got
the voice over in it, oh cool. And I wish that animal Dark
Knight, So the animated Dark Night, we don't get the rubber that's honest
line at all, So I'm still left hanging. And then Ironside just he's
they very smartly have Robin in the batmobile with him. Yeah, that's a
change and a worthy change the good Den's version of the story. And it's
funny because it works because then we don't even need to hear the voice over.
He can just be talking to Robin the entire time. It's a perfect
innovation. And like I said, Ironstein's delivery of the line made made me
feel like, yeah, that's exactly how it should sad rubber bullets, honest,
you can see that smile that Batman, the Batman, smart Batman.
There's something that's evolved over the years. You know, old fifties Batman would
smile and he was you know, and Adam West was friendly. But now
when Batman spiles, it means Batman's being really scary. And you can see
and there's something called the Batman smirk, and it's a subtle smile when Batman's
being naughty, like he's enjoying being Batman. This is it. You can
see that. You can feel that in his delivery. You can feel Michael
Irons like going rubber bullets, honest, like he's smirking when he says it.
And it's a brilliant delivery. My other delivery is my favorite Life in
the Darklary Turn. You don't get it, son, This isn't a trash
em it's an operating table. And he not being effective with his voice,
was just talking matter of fact ly telling this man what he's about to do
to him. It's so menacing and it's so great and that more of yeah,
oh what a great thing. Kevin Conroy is brilliant and he's the best
Batman out of all of them. Whenever is who's the best Batman? Conroy
was the best Batman, but Michael Michael Iron Ziffer, you get man thatad
voice. I feel that Hollywood never understood the brilliance of Michael Ironside and we
were denied a string of awesome revenge pictures and stuff starring him because you're right,
he could have been the badass villain at the center of a film that
we will totally purchased him as a hero. Yeah. All you get really
is, well, Paul Verhoven is the only body who's like, oh,
yeah, this guy's fucking great, you know, because I mean he steals
total Recall and he steals the Starship Troopers. Absolutely. Do you want to
see him steal another movie? Oh well, certainly that certainly scatters. But
there is a terrible sequel to Hylander called Highlander. Yeah, so that movie's
terrible, but he's so cool with Yeah, one who understands what the actual
tone of that movie he was. He's a great in that. And I
like what you're saying about that line, the operating table line, how casual
it's delivered, because that's how it would be, and that really is terrifying.
Yeah. The other line is when he gets out of the Batmobile and
I show you who rules got them city? Okay, Son show me and
you know, he's older and he's rotund, and he just looks like kind
of Santa. Can't clauss now without the beard. But then he starts talking,
We're gonna have to start an iron Side cast because suddenly the thought of
a world without on Michael Ironside is very terrifying. Okay, and what else
does he steal? The gee that? And you guys ever saw the v
was his mini series that came out in nineteen eighty four, was horrifying,
and it was about like aliens invading Earth and but they come as your friends
and then there, you know, there's a twist and they're very very Nazi
like and all that stuff. And it was the coolest TV show a ten
year old or a nine year old or eight year old, We're seen.
I was eleven. It was like the War of the World's nineteen thirty nine
broadcast from Man. Yeah, it was just the coolest. I had the
toy that I found like Robert England is one of the visitors, Robert England,
and then that they had that hot us is where I got my thing
for evil hot women because that Diana or evil you know, head of the
alienss or whatever the hell she was this sexy brunette cougar. Oh man,
did you see when they've remade it? Who they recast Brenda Barker, who's
in Gotham Man is the only good thing about that show because she was so
fine. That other repin was awful. I did the Gotham TV show.
Oh, the Gotham TV show wasn't great either. I liked the Gotham do
you really? Yeah, there are elements of that. Look, there's a
lot of chaff in that weed, Yeah there is. But I like the
performances of the Penguin and the Riddler a lot. That and their sort of
homo erotic relationship. I liked that really well handled. And I like Alfred
Alfred is great because John Pertwee, We've never had a shitty Alfred. All
the Alfred's have been great, that's true. Like even the guy in the
Cereal in nineteen forty eight was British. He was a butler. The guy
on the TV show Ellen Napier, the from zimboelas junior on the cartoon Great
Michael Goff. I want Michael Goff to make the sandwiches for the rest of
it. Yeah, that's the most paternal of the Yeah, we got Michael
Kaye. The only thing I really like about those Nolan movies are Michael Caine
and Gary Oldman and Lucia's Fox is pretty good too, but Lucius Fox.
Yeah, those movies have their charms. Yeah, but you know, Jeremy
it was great as Alfred. And I gotta say Andy Sertin, It's my
god, he's my new favorite. Yeah, it's one thing they always kind
of consistently get right. But this Dark Knight Returns bit is so cool.
I just I watched it again. You know, there's we stole from it
in Space Detective a little bit, some of the design element, just of
the of the the red and black. We do a space my movie Space
Detective if you can catch it at Space Detective Movie column and Swamp Media Group
dot com where Why Company is located at. There's a remaster coming up soon,
but we'll talk about it in a future episode. That kind of duo
tone solid red and solid black. In the Batmobile, we kind of stole
it a little bit Space stuff because it's so neat. Man, it's just
to see just those two collars against each other and the dramatic and that batmobile.
That design, which really is a black frame with the instruments coming out
of the black frame to create the cockpit. It's really cool. And the
cockpit which is like on an accordion basically so it can stretch and bend in
any direction. You don't really get the it's the common but no, I
think the batmobile of Darknight Returns is just germane to that particular battlet. We
had never seen anything like it, and I think they've been trying over and
over again to replicate it. That the Christopher No, and the thing is
called well, okay, it's the batmobile. Any guy who's going to put
a bat logo on his chest, he's gonna call his car the batmobile.
I think there is a certain arrested development to it. You know, in
the Dark Knight Returns comic, he blames it on Dick called it the batmobile.
I don't think so. Anybody who puts a bat logo on his hubcaps,
it's been to comfortable calling calling it the batmobile. I think, you
know, you lose your parents at that age, there's gonna be a certain
arrested development there. I think there's gonna be a certain thing with your I
know, for my own case, like, I still like a lot of
this stuff. I like the little the age I lost the parent at seven
or something. There's a certain emotional thing. And I think the eight nine,
ten year old that Bruce Wayne was was a certain kid in there.
You know, he made that choice to be Batman at that age. He
didn't come up with that when he was in college or who when he was
a little kid. That's the decision of a little bit. I'm gonna grow
up and make sure this never happens to anybody again. But there is a
certain amount of wish fulfillment in there. As much as Batman has inspired us
to want to be superheroes like that, he's actually doing it. So yeah,
naturally, this is my batmobile. Of course it is. And I
can't see him going saying it kind of offhanded to Alfred and Alfred rolling his
eyes out of him and go, okay, it's a batmobile. But like
the relationship we have, how is the batmobile doings? Yeah, oh,
bloody hell, I imagine that, Alfred says, oh, bloody hell a
lot. Yeah. I think this is a standout of the episode, just
because it really let this animation and design team really flex their muscles in a
way that they had it not to. And I think the third or four
season, whatever this season is, is a little more limited in the budget.
Like you don't get the black paper, right, you get photoshop painted,
or you know, you get hair drawn, but it's all colored in
photoshop where it's all very red sky. It's not a wash of black over
red. It's okay, but it's definitely it definitely looks like Warner Brothers are
giving him less money. Even the character designs a little bit more, have
less lines on them. Yeah, they're a little which is funny because Bruce
Tim's style is so simple That's why they're so wonderful. But yeah, they're
cutting costs everywhere. But in a way, they just refined the character a
little bit. I prefer some of the designs on this one to the original
one. I like the simpleness to it. I like a Joker with black
eyes and green pupils. I like that part of it, But I don't
like him not having red lips that because Joker has no lips there. Yeah,
the Joker is not and I know they were trying to go for a
skeletal look, but the Joker is not wanting to go without his makeup,
without his lipstick. What do you think Batman Beyond's version of the Cheker?
It looks cool. I wasn't wild about it being Tim Drake, you know,
like that whole DNA swap thing was just yeah. See, That's why
I could never really get into Batman Beyond, because I don't want to deal
with after Dark Knight Returns basically and the great chronology yeah Man stories, let's
say it all ends with Darkknight Returns. I don't want to hear afterwards.
I don't like Batman that isn't Bruce Wayne. I just don't because I don't
like any superhero that's not the character that I grew up with. I don't
like when they swapped the secret identity or anything like that in a film.
I don't mind blind casting, so if as long as it like, it
should make sense if it's the guy for the character, yeah woman for that
part. For example, I'd rather have a black Peter Parker than Miles Morales,
and not because of anything other than just I like that character. The
costume is just the costume. But what I like is Bruce Wayne, this
little boy that lost his parents. A black guy playing Bruce Wayne, that's
fine. I think it would work better if he was mixed race because the
Wayne fortune is really old and the Wayne fortune I think Greg Morrison may have
established this and established this in Gothic and a Legends of the Dark Knight Coming.
That's where they got the title for this episode from in there, when
they explained that Bruce Wayne, the Wayne family money is real estate and they
just own Main Street basically in Gotham, right, So like everything that's in
on that street, Bruce Wayne owns the property for it, and that's just
their old money they've been they founded the city and they've had that money there.
They were from Scotland and they made their money in fur trapping first and
then there was real estate. And his great grandfather was Solomon Wayne, who
was a Yeah all works into the court of owls and shit. Yeah that's
pretty cool. Yeah goyas. Yeah gotam by gas. So his money's old.
But a monk could be black and you know, you can do that
kind of stuff. I just like it when the character is the character just
traditionalist, do you want? Yeah, Superman has to be Joe Realm.
Yeah, I don't like another guy you know, being kal El. I
don't like being you know, well, who's your favorite Flash to that?
See it only works with the Flash, Oh okay, because you'll take Barry
Allen and Wally West. I preferred Wally West because that's who I had growing
up, right, But the Flash has been a multi character since. It's
an exception really because it's like Jay Garrett. They due in nineteen forty,
nineteen forty one. Barry Allen debuted in what nineteen fifty two to fifty three,
fifty four, so not a big difference. Wally West became the Flash
in the eighties. There have been so many hell Jordans. Yeah, the
green Landards again. It started with Alan Scott, then it was Hal Jordan
and they just kept adding green Land. But they've added Green lanyards since the
sixties. They had a Guy Gardner first, they added then the John Stewart,
who was the first major black superhero in DC. And all they keep
giving us is Cyborg. Yeah, I know, they keep giving us a
Cyborg. We haven't gotten John Stewart. I like him as they've always liked
him as Green Lantern because I like the portrayal of him being like an ex
military guy. He's that guy. Yeah, and everybody needs that guy on
the team. And hoost on Hal Jordan was an asshole. It would require
somebody really charming to make How Jordan work. Hal Jordan and Tony Stark,
it was like, I never like Tony Stark as a character in the comics.
I don't like Tony Stark as a character until Robert Gonna played him right,
because then it was you could feel there was that he was on your
side and joking with you. And yeah, posted just a drunk asshole,
which was and Ryan Reynolds just as how Jordan just made that jock that picked
on you in high school. That's true, and that didn't work. How
Jordan should have been like Tom Cruiser, we were great, Hal Jordan.
Yes, you know what we got was Hal Jordan the bro. Yeah,
and it doesn't work. Hal Jordan is not a bro. Hopefully the new
show that that's coming out they just announced this last weeks and they've got a
Damon Lindelof is the show runner up. Wow, that's gonna be me so
yeah, positive things occurring over him these days. I mean, they could
have excited for DC and it's Hal and John right, it's a cop show
basically. You know, there's a core out there. Really neat man,
I'm pretty excited about that. I like James Guns' stuff. I like the
Guardians. He made me care about characters that I shouldn't have cared about.
He made that fucking Raccoon work. I was just like, this is a
this is stupid, a fucking raccoon. I was on that page and I
saw that movie. I'm like, shit, the raccoon is the most charming
thing since the days, and now he's a major character in the Marvel universe.
Whereas, yeah, when I was a kid, he was a there
was a mini series Rocket Raccoon. It was a Forest Hu mini series,
and it was that's all I knew about him. And the Guardians were like,
the Guardians were the lame Legion of superheroes. It was literally the same
thing. They were thirtieth century superheroes. One guy had Captain America's Shield for
some reason, and they were and YANDU was on the team, and it
was just terrible. Lego superheroes are awesome, teenage superheroes in the thirtieth entry,
you can't go wrong with that. But the Guardians of the Galaxy were
terrible. Man, James Gunn made him work. I know the lady who
wrote the first draft too, the Coe Perlman. She wrote that in a
writer's lab at Marvel. Yeah, I understand it. They said what do
you want to do and she said Guardians of the Galaxy and they said that's
interesting. And then from the various iterations of the Guardians through the years,
she picked who that team should be. And now in everyone's mind, that's
the team. That's the team. But James Gunn is a solid movie director,
and he is a solid joke writer. He's a solid joke writer,
and he knows how to write jokes into heart. And that's what really sold
that picture, the heart of it. Yeah, he put that heart in
there with those jokes, and man, start Wars works. Man, it's
because those characters are bigger in the entire time. But you know, they
all really like each other. They like even in the first one when they
all hate each other, they clearly enjoy each other's company. Right, But
they're escaping the desk star. The chemistry is wonderful and James Gunn really latched
onto that. I have high hopes for Superman. I don't like that costume.
No, I don't like the collar. I'm fine with the costume,
but I don't like, Well, I imagine our Superman. I imagine what
we've seen so far is not what we're actually getting. That that's good.
I like the wide open where you can see his neck. I think a
high collar makes him look fascist. Here's my prediction. He Martha makes him
an outfit. He gets a Kryptonian outfit, the Cartoonia epic gets fucked up.
He puts on Mom's outfit for the finale. I hope that's the case.
What I do like, though, is it's got the shorts. Thank
god, those shorts. It looks a weird unitard thing going weird seek or
something. Yeah. I don't like it. And it's just it's just,
oh look, it's super junk. At least as short covers the junks a
little bit. Yeah, it feels more like a costume rather than a skin.
And like, can't just the Kryptonians be tacky dressers? Yeah, I
like, we'll go back to the Donner movie, Like, I'll take him
in those robes. There was I was actually everything. I responded on a
thread and James Gunn liked it. Made my day. But like he was
talking, it was the debate on the shorts, and I go, can't
the Kryptonians just to be a taped wearing shorts on the outside type of society.
That's just what the way they dress, that's just they're flying fans.
Now, okay, let's bring it back to the fucking episode, because the
third it's magnificent. The Dark Knight return stuff is all Magnificen we get to
our third story here, which is just the story of these kids happening upon
a crime and then the actual Batman saving them. So there are now the
protagonists of their own story. Now the villain of this who's design? I
fucking love doing this? Start so basic, it's perfect man, just random
shapes. And here's Firefly. Firefly never gets enough airtime or airplane. They
did a pretty good good one on Gotham actually, but there's a really they
do a really good episode with him on this series though. Oh yeah here
in the anima. Yeah, he's a special effects guy and his girlfriend breaks
as a pop star and he's doing all the special effects for her and she
dumps them or something. Eagles age shit, right, I just meant live
action wise, because the recent shelving of Backgirl because Brendan Fraser was playing Firefox
in that one, so now we don't even get to see that. I
think that movie probably had really good performances in it and wasn't very good.
I bet it was garbage, but I still want to see it. Yeah,
I heard it look like it. I heard from people who are around
you know that they have seen a cut or something like that. They look
like a CW show. It's about time that I think studios figure out that
we'll give anything a chance comic book fans basically. Yeah, But the problem
is that's also a problem because if they just give you anything and they don't
put a lot of effort into it, right, But then we're voting with
you know, our views and dollars, So the ones that are not quality,
you're going to fall away. As comic book fans. Maybe they'll give
anything a chance, but unless it comes out of Sony because none of those,
like, every one of those movies tanks. I don't know why they
keep making I guess the Venom movies are making money. Hold on to that,
Yeah, grant, they got to keep making the movie so they can
keep their copy rank going. So they can keep printing money. You know,
I fracture might not do background work every now and then. Fun,
I'm always busy, like editing and shit Like, I don't get a lot
of time to socialize. It's like background gig out to spend the day,
make two hundred bucks. Maybe I'll meet somebody's girls. I did background a
day on Venom. I can't say anything because I signed an ending. And
it's just you know, just a he's an arsonist, but a godom city
arthanists have jetpacks and this one firefly. They get him so right on the
cartoon when he sees the kids in the audience and he says, oops,
tough luck. They're not going to come and help you. Yeah, the
chargers have said, kids, you just shouldn't be here. Ye. Yeah.
It's just like apathetic and not too bright. And he's a cool sea
batman rolling like good eat pinch good for a connecting scene. Yeah, Like
in the last episode, I said he's not getting invited to the Joker and
Penguin's card game. The Penguin would hire him though, right of course,
you know, and I the comics tend to do this really well. Now
we're like the villains just don't all end up in Gotham at the end of
the issue. They have lives, right, you know, they're just not
caught. You've got to get charges the stick. You know, Seedlister's going
to be guns for hire, basically bring him on in. But when you
do that, you get something like Kite then, who ended up being a
breakout on the cartoon show with Harley, but only because he was a breakout
in the comics because Tom Kit used him as it was a Seedlister. I'm
just gonna work them into the story and so does work too. It certainly
worked in that cartoon. And we hadn't really mentioned the Harley Quinn cartoon,
which is probably the from these Snyder era of the DCU, to me,
the best thing that came out. Yeah, it's silly and it does its
own thing with the mythology and it, but it's from her perspective, you
know, almost got to it's from Harley's perspective, who is a lunatic,
but it was a crazy lunatic. But they get the personalities since they're funny.
They get everybody's personality really well, almost perfectly in some cases, so
everybody's comedically the you know, like when the Lex Luthor shows up. Lex
Luther's a narcissist, he's a comedically so on this so you can see really
the core and the personality come out. And the joke Carella at his heart
is an asshole who thinks he's funny, the worst kind of human. Yeah,
he's just and Alan Tudick as great as the joker. He's funny and
seeing the joker call somebody an asshole is great. Yeah, that's the they
think. Yeah, finally got like cursing in the Batman universe, but because
it's a joke, they can get away with it. Yeah. And the
Penguin is it was the peg is played by Nuban from from Seinfeld. That's
right, there's a bar mitzvah. So like the penguin having to go to
his kids or his nephew's bar mitzvah is something that you know is real,
right, you just absolutely know what happened and in real life. Yeah,
Or the fact that the Riddlers is a total queen but is really sweet because
he gets in a in a relationship with the clock King and they get married.
Sense. Man, it was fucking great. Man. So if you
like Batman animated shows like we've been discussing, do you old favorite check out
Harley Quinn know that it's a sitcom and it's and now Diadrich batter is as
Batman as bot Yeah, yeah, exactly, just thank god, my favorite.
There's the one they've introduced Robin and it's Damian but he's the new Robin
and he's nine, and it's a little boy doing the voice. Yes,
and everybody's whenever Robin shows up, they can't fight him because he's so adorable.
It's the perfect trail of Dami. It's really well done. I like
how it ends with the Firefly in the comic Bruce Wayne and I said,
just jumps out of the shadows dressed up as Batman's I think Batman looks like
this. It's lame. This the kids seeing Batman and they get to see
Batman doing his thing, and then his interaction with them is just yes,
it's I'm not cuddly, kids. You need to get the fuck out of
here because shit's on fight. Yeah, but the kids still walk off all
super because what could be better? Yeah? You know, I one time,
when I first moved to Los Angeles, I've mentioned Harlan Ellison. He's
my favorite author of all time. Harlan had his phone number in the phone
book. He was not shy about people contacting him. So I called on
my the first phone I had got my first phone line in Los Angeles,
and my first phone call, I'm going to call harle and Allison. And
it rang and rang, and then finally the receiver was snatched up and he
just yelled and I hung up, very scared, but was so elated because
to me, it was almost the perfect interaction with the man. Yeah,
you know, like I couldn't ask for bet. I was like meeting Batman.
Yeah, okay, this Batman. Yeah, but can you imagine being
a little, you know, twelve year old kid and talking about only hearing
about the urban legend in the town you limit and then seeing them, but
acting as he should, like whatever your preconceived notion of him. In my
case, I knew Harlan Ellison was going to yell at me for calling him
at home, because I had no reason to do so other than to say
I love you so But you know, if my version of Batman is the
jokey one or the super ultra you know, who's still nice to Robin every
version of this Batman were getting, like he's the friendly Batman. To get
the Batman's not fucking about would be elating to me because that was a version
I wasn't even thinking of. Clearly, there is a thing about Batman that
people, again the movie makers don't quite get. They almost get. There's
always little flashes of it, but for the most part, like bet only
trusts two kinds of people, older men with mustaches, Commissioner Gordon Lucius Fox,
Alfred Pennyworth, and little kids. He trusts little kids because little kids
are not corrupted, they're innocent, and he stopped aging at to a certain
degree. He is the best dad that you could probably hope for, even
though he's gonna put you in danger and probably get you killed, but he
will get you resurrected at the very least, the very least one of his
villains will get you back to life. But he's you know, there's a
certain dad element to him, and he's been with the kids sidekick. You
can't separate that and I the one thing again I like and Batman begins when
there's a little kid there, he gives them one of his gadgets. It's
a small interaction and it's nice. I don't like Christian Bale as Batman because
he's yelling the whole time, but yeah, Batman talks like Clint Eastward.
God read a comic book. Anyways. I like him with the little kids,
and it worked, you know, And it's like Batman's a character that
you can trust around kids, you know, like an adult that like,
you know, Batman's not going to be a bad influence on him other than
you know, taking him to fight crime. Superman's another character, like Superman
interacting with children, Wonder Woman interacting with children. That's you need that.
These characters need that, you know. And I don't think the movies ever
really truly get that, right. We haven't had a good Batman and Robin
other than atat West. It's an excellent point because the thing about d C
and DC fans are they tend to be sort of in the basic overview,
the dark versus Marvel's Light. Yeah, the characters of DC are always a
little more tortured. Where they're coming from. Is a little more human in
a way, or not more human, because the Marvel is sort of everyday
sort of man and woman. But certainly our origin stories tend to be a
little dark in DC well, and in the origin stories are all very and
again, I don't know if this was intentional. I don't think it was
intentional. I think that's just what they tapped into. Maybe it's the time
period because a lot of these characters are coming from the forties, you know,
a world where there are super villain right, certainly, and they're doing
awful things. But yeah, they you know, they kind of start with
a little bit. Batman and Superman start with tragedy. Wonder Woman's reten ret
conn to have a little bit of tragedy into it, you know, or
being you know, being Zeus's daughter automatically makes things complicated. Yeah, you're
gonna have some problems going out. But I the DC characters are always larger
than life. They're big gods and stuff. My point is that they actually
what you're saying about their interactions with children are actually necessary. Yeah is in
otherwise you get I don't want to toop on Zack SNYDERX again. I love
his stuff, but I don't his movies are too dark. There's no these
are children's characters. At the end of the day, you were met these
characters when you were a little kid, and you should be able to make
sure you know that a kid should be able to I don't know. Marvel.
I always saw as a soap opera, everybody was very human, very
flawed, Whereas that's what and they don't have kids sidekicks. See, on
the other hand, they're like these godlike characters, very parental. They all
have kids sidekicks, and they all come from dark places, very fairy tale,
and a lot of their origins fairy tales always start terrible, you know,
the every kid, everybody lost in the woods. You know, it's
like Disney movies. You know, it always starts with there's a dead mother,
right or something like that. And I think you get that in those
class at least in the Big Three. You know, Wonder Woman has on
an island with no men or whatever, and she's a child of a god
and stuff. But there's the Amazons are there because they're all like the souls
of abused women. That's what the Amazons and the easy comics are at the
very least. That approach is when they all the Amazons are descended or they
are the spirits of or whatever women that were raped and murdered and all this
stuff. The Palta was raped Hercules Heracles, right, you know, like
the physical amazon Us. These are the mystical Amazons that have been resurrected as
from the spirits Yata. So Paradise Island has this mystical background that's rooted in
tragedy. So the thing is so it's easy to lean into. All.
Yeah, it's very easy. It's not in any way innovative that you come
along and go, let's take this darkness and turn the lights down. Congratulation
you make it. I've made it more realistic and more down. Ears that
support we all live and that's what we get from a Gotham, Like we're
all living in Gotham. Yeah, I need to see that. I need
to see Superman fly by every once in a while and inspire me, you
know, yeah, and me and like making me. There's I saw a
clip from Superman four online, the other terrible film, except this guy seems
Superman in the classroom with a bunch of kids. You know. It's got
Superman taking that kid, and he's got a bunch of kids running behind him,
and he got his arms around one is I'm gonna you asked me to
get rid of nuclear weapons to me, I'm gonna go do that. Well,
yeah, you're you're supposed to do that, the little kid like,
that's the whole point. I think there's a great description about DC versus Marvel
that I always thought was really interesting is that Marvel is the heroes in our
world, but in DC, we're going to their world. I think that's
very fair. Yeah. Yeah, as much as as fantastical as Marvel can
get, it takes place here in that Yeah, they're not necessarily going to
the world outside your window. Yeah. I mean, Captain America fought in
the World War Two everybody, and much to the the movies attempt to blur
that he did kill a lot of Nazis. I don't know why that movie
erases the Nazis, but yeah, they went straight to Hydra. I think
the rise of neo fascism in the United States has a lot to do with
the fact that there was an edict of no more cartoon Nazis after Chindler's List
and saving Private Ryan and brilliant historical things, but there was no more carto
villain Nazis, and I think that extended into Captain America, and I think
had the Red skull, but running around the wick swasting go on his arm.
You want Hitler in it. We probably wouldn't have had We will not,
They will not replace us. We might not have had that because I
grew up in an era Nanzi was a go to bad guy and they reminded
you every couple of years, some superhero or some action guy was beating the
shit out of one of these scumbags, or no Brooks was making fun of
them. And I think where you take a point where you have to they're
very serious, you gotta lampoon them. You gotta make them cartoon villains because
people got to understand how awful these folks are. Anyways, that's just me
being mad that Chris Evans didn't punch the actual Hitler. Yeah, I mean
yeah, we got the cartoon version of Yeah. So like the memgie is
great, but I think they fucked that up. And that's too bad because
if somebody would have had a good cartoon Nazi villains, it would have been
Joe Johnston, and I'm sure he argued for it. His The Rocketeer has
got some great Nazi villains of it. Timothy Dalton, Yes, my god,
that's great. Yes, oh yeah, hey. And and as you
know, going back to Batman, there's a great Batman Captain America crossover from
maybe it's twenty five thirty years ago. John byrned in it, and it's
set in the forties and Hitler, I mean, the Joker teams up with
the Red Skull and the Joker finds out that the Red skulls a Nazis,
like you're Nazi. Hey, I may be a psychopathic criminal, but I'm
an American psychopathic criminal. Then he punches them. I remember that issue very
well, even the Joker all is the line of fucking Nazis. But this
episode is cool. Man. I think this was an episode that when I
watched it, I wanted to immediately rewatch it. I wanted to ingest it
and really enjoy it, because getting to see Batman is just not that.
When seeing Batman adapted, you rarely get to see on screen what makes him
so great. And I'm not talking even story wise, and nobody gets it,
writes one story wise other than this cartoon. But to see the visual
influence come to life, the important visual stuff that in the comic book what
got the kids in nineteen fifty to still think Batman was somewhat relevant, even
though you know he had lost his relevancy a little bit in that decade.
To make the producers of the TV show, William Noser and his team,
what they looked at was those big sprank comic books, that art style,
that very exaggerated Bill Finger and his giant typewriters, as I like to say,
a lot big piano machines and giant props to work Batman death traps and
stuff. That's direct influence. That's important. The Darknight Returns he has that
snyer bit a lot off of it. But the Burt movie wouldn't exist without
it. That Burton movie. The Dark Knight Returns showed Warner Brothers, Hey,
this Batman could be for anybody. We could probably make a bunch of
money with this guy. I said it earlier, I'll say it again.
The influence of Dark Knight Returns cannot be estimated in the Batman that we have
today, in the varied forms of Batman. The fact that Batman's got machine
guns on the Batmobile in every movie is because of The Darknight Returns. So
it doesn't have a positive influence. Just the darker suit, yeah, just
the darker tone, just that. I don't think there's an analog. It's
not one. For one, the Burton film it visually owes nothing to the
comic book. What it does, oh, is the freeing up to make
it as dark as they made. Yeah, even visually. The comics were
influenced by The Dark Knight Returns. You know, to the point that Batman
had the yellow oval on his suit, and the reason why he has a
yellow thing in his middle of his chest was been the in the sixties.
They wanted a trademark the Batman logo, and they couldn't just trademarked the bat
that's on his chest because there was a million other things like Bacardi rum looks
like Batman, but if you put it in a yellow circle, you could
trademark it. So it was there, and in the Dark Nary turns frankments,
Oh, it's a target that Batman puts on his chest. Can't armor
my head, can't armor his head which parted his X later you can.
And then once that suit gets messed up, he goes back to his original
costume with a big old Bat on it. But the comics eventually went to
the big Old Bat within a few years. The big is true. That's
you know this one right down on This is from the thirty nine one.
You know literally what I have on my arm. Co host just discovered that
they both have a bat ten. Yeah, from the same fucking era.
Yeah. So the Dark Nary Turns influence is huge, and it just did
an influence Batman. It influenced the entire industry because it was the book that
that that broke the industry into the main It was the book that people go,
all comics are for kids, are for growing up, you know,
are for just forgetting. It's the book that made it, don't people go,
Comics aren't just for kids anymore. They're for grown ups. Everybody could
enjoy them, more so than Watchmen. I know. Watchmen was more literary,
and I think that turned on a whole other segment of the populae.
Sure, but the comic book that made it real is the fact that Batman
was now in his fifties and had a deeper complexity than we had ever really
considered and made us examine the character in ways that like, look, the
comics had given us all these different versions of them over the years, but
this one really opened it up for people to go, oh, this is
for me too. This book, The Dark Knight Returns Watchmen wasn't getting written
up in Rolling Stone in nineteen eighty six. Dark Knight Returns is a fucking
Rolling Stone, meaning The Dark Knight Returns was okay for college people and twenty
somethings. The Dark Knight Returns. Oh, this comic book is cool.
And you know how cool this was. This is the only comic book Zack
Snyder's ever read. Okay, he read three hundred and he looked at the
the Dave Gibbons sheets for Watchmen. I don't think you read the story.
Well, no, I don't think he looked at the art. That's one
thing about Watchman when I was just kind of weird, is I like the
fact that he did the movie universe version of Watchmen, so like it exists
in the same kind of movie universe of every superhero movie that came out after
the Burton Batman, where we had rubber costumes and mascara on their faces and
stuff, and then you and then the comic. The Watchmen costumes are very
kind of home made, look good almost. Yeah. The TV show did
a nice job interpreting those costumes, and you know, I give we talked
about Zack Snyder. But I love Zack Snyder, and I wish he would
make more stuff like three hundred again because I think that's his best. That
movie. It is easy and you watch three hundred over and over again,
it's and you gotta understand it. It's this and that or whatever. But
it's told from the perspective of the greed from the Greeks. It's propaganda piece,
like you're supposed to be ridiculous. Yeah, and yeah it's racist,
but it's supposed to be like that everything that was in Greece was foreign and
monstrous. Yeah, that was the whole point. But it's a beautiful film.
Absolutely, This is there developing a TV show. Don't do that.
Don't do that. It should be just a little piece of art that Yeah,
yeah, that sequel didn't exist. And don't take it as history.
Oh, read a book for history. These are fiction, everybody. Yeah,
these are fiction. So I don't want to all them ex Nider Stuck.
No, I like him as a filmmaker. I wish he would do
more stuff like that. I love three hundred, and I'm one of the
fans of Watchmen. No, me too. I love that Watchman, but
I've seen a bunch of times. I think he should have hired older actors
to play the older characters instead of putting them in the fucking terrible makeup,
Like, yeah, it was, it's unacceptable. Yeah, I would have
done the two actor thing too. There's no shame in casting a sixteen because
a sixteen year old the median is super is what the sixteen year old comedian
does unexpected because he's a right and this is Jefferdine Morgon doing it, Okay,
I expect him to be raby. Even his makeup at the beginning is
if he as fuck is if he Yeah, he's great though, Oh my
god, he's the perfect guy for this. He's great. Yeah, yeah,
But couldn't you imagine, you know, like they actually had some sixty
five year old guy blaming him though? It would be great, Yeah,
because you know, think like Bruce Willis or something at that you know night
in two thousand and nine playing that part like an old man, you know,
older guy. Oh well yeah, that kind of would have been perfect.
Yeah shit, but it was you've cast us in your head. I
read Tom Cruise, that was who we wanted for Ozzie Mandias. That would
have been the perfect guy. Yeah, Tom Cruise, and I love Matthew
Good. I am the president of the Matthew Good Film Fan Club. Man.
I want to cast that dude as a villain in something because he is
spectacular as Ozzie Mandias and he's even better as Bob Evan's on that Godfather the
Offer show on on Paramount. It doesn't I'm not wild about the casting on
on on Coppola. Oh yeah, yeah, that's what's his name? Is
it, Josh Gatt. It's the other one, the other guy guy,
the Fury guy. Because the Balls of Fury guy is like short, like
the penguin. I shouldn't have been playing Copla. Copla is like six feet
tall and is a bear of a man. And you know what I mean,
Yes, the intimidation is not there with this. He's just another puzzo.
There's yeah, exactly. And there's no way that Miles Teller would have
intimidated me. There's no way that Al Roady could have intimidated the real Coppola.
Copeland would have just been like, fuck you, I'm gonna have a
glass of wine, smoke a joint, ups with spaghetti and you can kiss
my ass. Yeah, I'm back to San Francisco with me, San Francisco
with me. Fuck you No, he's not. Copland still got it Man.
Yes, I would have remind seeing Copla do a Batman movie, though
that could be something else. I like cop Yes, his version, Yes,
whatever you want, no studio notes Yes, well then you know he
made Dracula. That Dracula, despite some of the weird casting in it,
that movie is cool. One of the studios wants to be really fucking pushed
because we I think we've reached the point where we've gotten the traditional superhero storytelling
cinematically these days. If someone wants to have a fucking fun time, I
would do exactly that. I would call Germa del Tour and go, what
character do you want? Go ahead. We're not trying to make a joint
universe right now. Yeah, we'll get to that, you know, if
we get there at all. I just want to see swamp Thing be swamp
things. Yeah, if Batman exists, if Gotham is there, sure,
and I know you know Constantine exists there too, in the swamp Thing University's
from the swamp Thing universe. But for fox sake, can I just spend
some time in the swamp and not worry about what's going on in the rest
of the world. Yeah, did do these one off kind of tales like
James Mangold. They had a lot of success with Logan doing that. I
don't think Logan is as great Asy already made it out to me, but
it's pretty good. It's at least taking the taking brave something new. Yeah,
you know the Joker and that Joker movie too, I was trying to
do doing his own. What do you think it's successial or not. It's
either here or there. But you know, he plays pretty well. I
do not. I hate that movie, but exactly what I'm saying, I
like that it's out there. I like that they said, yeah, you
go ahead. It's not going to fuck up the timeline in people's minds.
It's always been the fucking problem with the studios is, well, everyone's going
to be so confused if we have two different Batman properties out there. You
know, the Arrow Verse had a version of the Suicide Squad that they had
built over seasons that they had to stop doing this movie because there's a movie
coming out. We don't want anybody to go getting the wrong idea. I
mean, you can tell it's two different This whole shared universe thing has gotten
in their hand. Marvel did it great, and then everybody tried to do
it again. And just if you don't have a plan from the beginning where
it's all going right now, don't just tell the story of that character.
That's all we really need. I actually think planning the universes ahead of time
hurt everybody because they're like, Okay, we're gonna build this movie and then
we'll get to the real popular villain in the sequel. Just like expected a
popular villain. Make the movie and if it works, have that in your
back pocket, but make your contained story. The Iron Man was able,
I think pulled that awfully. Well. Yeah, well they came up with
a villain, a hero most people barely knew, and a villain people both.
Yeah both. But here's the thing I agree with you. Yeah,
Iron Man also had no interesting villains. Right, if it's your first Batman
movie, might as well go up against the Joker. Yeah, it's gonna
come up, and it doesn't. We don't need to build to it.
It's not necessary as fans. But at the same time, just don't kill
them at the end. Yeah. I never understood that and that they did
that, and that's all from the Burton movie. They that's because they just
knew they could never afford Nicholson. Again, I'm assuming, but it makes
no sense that they would kill the Catwoman, although they at the last second
through her back and yeah, but yeah, I mean, Harvey Dent dies
and the Joel Schumacher one a end and Wiggler gets it. He's insane,
so he can't reveal who Batman is. Yeah, it's just I think that's
eighties Hollywood movie writing. The villain dies. The villain dies at the end.
That's the only way we can have some sort of satisfying climb ances to
is for our villain to remain slane, you know, because how many times
Bond movies they just kept recasting blofeld Oh, yeah, who do we need?
Who do we like? Yeah? Who isn't pissing us off? Yeah,
that's funny. But if he just didn't fucking care. But that was
also before you know, home the home video market or anything like that,
where people, if they saw the movie again, they had to go to
the movie theater or go back to watch it on a re release. So
maybe there wasn't that louch. Yeah, so they're not going to really notice
that mob Adams had previously been a bond girl when she shows up in Octopus.
But nobody gives a shit that. You know, Don Cheetles became roady,
not at all. No, and mony thing is the other guy gave
a better performance Terrence Hower. Yeah, oh yeah, Terrence Howard tried because
we all know what a spectacular actor Don Cheetle is. Oh yeah, and
Don Gino's just like my paychake, I got my money. Fuck it up,
he's phoning it in. He's a marble movie. I don't give a
shit. Does seem that way, Terrence Howard, It's a marrble movie.
I give a shit. I feel bad for Terrence Howard. I don't understand
that gossip. I don't know who, I don't care. It's all very
sketchy. It's all sketchy. I'm sorry you didn't get cast in the second
one. You know, take the pay cut. I guess I don't know.
I would. He shouldn't get a pay cut. He shouldn't get a
pay cut. I don't believe that he got paid more money though in the
first movie than that. Basically he was on par with Robert Downey. He
said, well, I was saying that he was getting paid more. Well,
that might have been the case, just because there was, you know,
no guarantee about Downy Junior at that point. Yeah, people were still
nervous about him, even though he'd been doing good work for the previous decade.
Kiss Bang like chiss Bang is still his best movie. Fucking great movie.
Isn't that a great movie? Everything about that picture is just original and
rash and real even and kind of hilarious because they keep calling Robert Downey Junior
kid in it. I'm like, well, cock on day Berry. Oh,
it's fantastic movie beginning to end. I know you would find the word
stupid, which is what you are. Just Val Camrose, I guess his
last hurrah, Yeah, pretty much, but one does it go out on?
Yeah, such a great picture. Shane Black's doing Doc Savage. He's
been no collamoring. No, he's doing it with The Rock and they just
did a press conference like two days ago. Well the Rock, huh,
he is bronze. He is bronze. Are they gonna put him in a
bad a blonde wig? I hope so better with that that widow. I
can't imagine Shane Black will do anything but sixties. He's a big he's a
big Doc Savage guy. Eh oh, yeah, I know he's a fan
of the books. And what has been trying to get that movie made since
the eighties was Swarzen here long time was attached to it. Even Dolf Londern
kind of it is Doc Savage in real life A little bit he is in
real life, but he wouldn't. He can't act. He can't act.
But I mean he's beautiful. Well, I mean he's like a perfect human
specimen, and he's like a super fucking genius, and so maybe the acting
doesn't need to be at the height. But yeah, I guess the Rock
I don't know, get the Rock place more deve batistas. I mean Smart
will believe. Smart will believe it. If the writing is he can he
can read. It's fucking Shane Black. I'm not gonna not see it.
The Rock can act. I mean, his whole personality is an act.
That's true. But let's let's wrap up out here on the back and shape
any final thoughts on Legends of the Dark Knight. It's got the best episode
title out of the entire series, only because Legends of the Dark Knight was
low key my favorite comic run when I was in high school. It was
an anthology comic five issue arcs, generally out of continuity. Originally it was
meant to be in Batman's early days. They were meant to be young Batman
stories, but they really just ended up being out of continuity, just Batman's.
Anyone shows up with a great Batman idea, go do it. And
in Legend of the Dark Knight, You Got you Got Faces I think a
two face story from bet Matt Wagner You Got Prey, which was an update
of the Hugo Strange interaction with Batman. He was Strange, resses up like
Batman. Paul Glacy arc gorgeously at Greg Morrison's Gothic, which is really good.
It revealed that Bruce Wayne man have gotten diddled by a priest when he
was a kid, or went to a school that had you know some hansy
yikes. Yeah, and where Venom was introduced is a story where Bruce Wayne
gets addicted to the super steroid venom oh and has to go into basically rehab,
but rehab for Bruce Wayne was take the Batman mask off and the cap
off and then go lock yourself in the cave for three months to detox,
and he can out to be a little beard and skinny, and he's like,
all right, I'm ready to fight crime again. But the venom eventually
evolved into especially that earlier on Legend of the Dark Knight. If you're a
fan of comics of Batman, seek it out. It's really cool. I'm
sure you can get them on the DCF. So I love the title.
I love the art styles and the respect to the history of Batman a lot.
I love the fact that it's a reminder that little kids love this character
and dark movies that kids can't go watch. Maybe you should make him a
Batman movie that they can go watch. I'm okay for a dark r Rader
Batman movie. I want that, But I want to make sure my nephew
gave as a Batman movie with Robin and the Batmobile and Ace to Bathhound and
mister Freeze and you know what I mean, something for him to enjoy as
well. You're absolutely right. I think we're gonna have two Batman movies because
why people love that shit one every other year? Who cares? Yeah,
fuck the timelines that that cares. I don't. I want to see every
Batman, although I'm surprised that they're not making the the Robert Pattinson is the
young version of whatever, the next whatever, the James Nunber is Okay,
Well they're doing they're going brave and bold. Yeah, with Damian Wayne,
Yes, I wonder you know what you should cast on that. John Hamm
too old now, but he's a kid now, Yeah, that's true.
I mean John Ams is fifty, so I mean Kessydrick Bonner, right,
you're gonna you're looking at it with a raised eyebrow. Chris Emsworth, Oh
no, I could totally see him. Have you seen that last movie of
his that Netflix The Extractor too? And not they're not they're out of control
action movies, right, but these teams with a little kid in it in
the second one, and the chemistry is great. I'm sure he one of
them. You know, he's a young dad with like kids and shit like
and that four movie isn't very good, no, that last one, but
he's good with the kid. That's his kid. Yeah. So I think
Chris Emsworth is physically obviously you know, yeah, dye his hair and costume
work there. Yeah, now you know, know pat and muscles needed.
Yeah, but the fact that I know he can play serious because he's those
action movies is fine. But he's good with kids, yeah yeah, and
he looks the part and he's a got the right level of name. And
plus what great press we stole for I mean goodbye. Yeah, right now,
let me bring it back again, because here's an idea. Let's get
a Batman movie that's a fucking anthology that it would be nice where you could
have any actors you want in any style you want, for any story you
want. But throw that out there. I mean that we get those as
animated things from time to time, and we've gotten them here and those are
wonderful. Let's see something. There's an animated anthology movie from around the Christen
Woland time, a Shadow of the bat Yes, which is an idology of
the anime, which is okay, some of them are better than others.
I don't know how well Batman translates to anime. It's kind of a weird.
It's yeah, it's very off putting, like Batman. Ninja is cracked
the fuck out. Yeah it was fun, right, I like the Batman
and Ninja turtles more though, Yeah, certainly that was a great It was
a lot of fun. There's so many good Batman's. Give us an anthology,
it'd be fun. And you've been listening now to midnight viewing anthologies.
Attack. This is gonna be the end of this episode. I don't know
what our next topic is, but in two weeks you're gonna you'll all know.
Our Patreon subscribers are gonna know a week early. Until then, where
can people find you, Antonio if they're looking for you, well, we'll
be back here saying back time, same back shadow. No, you can
find my work over at swamp me dot com, and you can watch my
movie at Space Detectivemovie dot com, the only place you can watch it right
now there, and please enjoy. It's kind of weird. Have a cocktail
or something. Do you have legal cannabis in your state? Enjoy some of
that. It's a weird kind of animated thing. It's fucking great, is
what it is. Oh, thank you very much. Yeah, of course.
And as for me, check out all of our stuff at Weirdingwaymedia dot
com, including my radio drama Dark Destinations, and oh check out Night mister
Walters. That's the HP's podcast. About the TV series Taxi that I co
host Until next time. See. He was just like, I said,
what are you talking about? Did you see the way? He thought?
Yeah? But he also had that phone thing and when he flew away the
end, I'm telling you he's not human. Get off it. He's human.
I don't know. I thought I saw phage midnight viewing. Anthology's Attack
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