WEBVTT

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This episode may contain content of a
graphic nature, including descriptions of physical and

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sexual violence against adults, children,
and animals. Listener discretion is advised.

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Hi everyone, I'm Talia and I'm
Tanya, and together we are Crimes and

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Consequences, a True crime podcast.
Hi Tanya, Hi Talia. How are

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you? I'm John pretty good?
How about you? Splendid? Thanks for

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asking. I hope everybody is doing
amazing today. Thank you guys for listening

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or watching us on True Crime Daily's
YouTube. And I have a story today

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about domestic violence. Before start,
though, want me to start I do?

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I want to ask everybody to subscribe
or like us and write nice comments

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not I hate comments like that,
because we will comment on you and our

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comment on the commoner section. Anyway, this is the Messa violence, which

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I know can be a trigger for
a lot of people. But story needs

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to be told. Are you ready? Yes? This is a story about

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Lisa cecil Ya Harnum and she was
born in Toronto, Canada, in nineteen

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eighty one. She basically was raised
by her mom and she had a brother

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she was very close to. His
name was Jason. Lisa had a love

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for dance at a young age ballet. She was one of those girls in

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high school, beautiful, smart,
good at everything she did, the envy

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of everyone. Yeah, you're that's
one of those girls you're so jealous of.

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Yes, that was her. She
was extra outgoing, had a social

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circle of friends. But just like
everybody else, she was prone to feeling

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bad in your teens. You know
how it is. Yeah, you're never

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perfect. You're not good enough,
your hair's not pretty enough, you're not

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skinny enough, not skinny. Yeah, So Ashley saying that she developed an

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eating disorder, and she also battled
with depression in high school, and at

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one point she was hospitalized for her
eating disorder. I believe it was Bolimia

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yan anorexia. And then again,
she's in ballet and there's probably a lot

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of pressure on her to be super
tiny. Her mother had once stated in

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the news that it was a very
difficult time in Lisa's life. I mean,

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as you can imagine, going in
in a hospital and all that,

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But she came out stronger, She
overcame her issues and she end up graduating

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doing well. But she didn't really
want to stay in Toronto, Canada.

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She wanted to go someplace where she
felt had more sunshine, sunshine, sunshine,

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and she ended up going at the
age of twenty four. And then

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this is in two thousand and four, she went to Sydney, Australia,

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and she's there. She's living her
life. She has this work visa for

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twelve months and she likes to do
hair. She's a hairdresser. She ends

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up studying at it's called the Australian
Hair and Beauty College in Sydney and working

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part time to pay her twition.
She loved this ribed at this job and

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she didn't want to leave. She
just really liked it there. She also

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was into fashion makeup and again she's
like dropped dead gorgeous, beautiful hair makeup,

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wearing the bass clothes. It bothered
her to be away from her family,

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but they still talked to her.
And her mom Joan and her brother

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Jason talked every day on the phone
and they were really supportive of her despite

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her being far away. She ended
up trying to pursue some citizenship in Australia,

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But I mean, I do immigration
laws, so I'm not sure how

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she could do it, but I
do know that she ended up being able

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to extend her visa so she's there
originally in two thousand and four, and

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now let's go to two thousand and
nine. She's living her best life,

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even hair, doing makeup, going
out looking good. But she needed a

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new place to live. So she
asked one of her friends, Hey,

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do you know anybody that's looking for
a roommate or a place I can stay?

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And her friend mentions this name,
Simon Getney. He was about ten

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years older than her. He had
a place and it was in it's a

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very nice area of Sydney called Hyde
and it was across the street from Hyde

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Park. His apartment was fifteen stories
up and it had like a panoramic view

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of the park. Oh beautiful,
yeah, and all windows Florida ceiling windows.

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So she talks to Simon and he
agrees to let her run a room.

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It's a little bit background on Simon. Simon worked selling shoes. He

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was a shoe importer. Oh,
shoe importer. I'm guessing these are very

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high end. They're not the shoes
you wear. No, No, definitely

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not. They're not the shoes I
wear. There, Yes, high end,

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designer, designer footwear. He does
it online and a lot of what

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he got came from the United States. When Lisa talked to her mom Joan

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about the arrangement, she said it
was just going to be temporary and she

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was going to find some other place
to live. But things happened. Okay,

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Simon's a very good looking guy.
She's a good looking girl. They're

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living together and being clicked. How
about that? Things clicked all right?

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At first, she thought Simon wasn't
interested in women, but she found out

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he was. Definitely, he definitely
was, he was. So she moves

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into this luxury apartment, fifteen floor
in the Inner City, the Hide.

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It was about two months after they
were living together that they they started dating,

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dating, dating, they're dating,
their dating, things happen. Eventually

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it grows serious there and Lisa's not
moving out. Remember it was gonna be

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temporary. Oh yeah, she's she's
not moving out. Something strange as Simon

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would call Lisa byer middle name,
Cecilia. Cecilia name it is Lisa is

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too, Yeah it is, Well, that's what he called her. And

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he became very infatuated with her.
And time goes on, they're starting to

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fall in love. Twenty eleven comes
along. It's Lisa's thirtieth birthday. There's

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this party and there's a video out
there which Simon gets on one knee and

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he proposes in front of all of
her friends. Kind of nerve racking.

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I think, yeah, I know, because she said, no, I

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know. She's like, have you
seen those videos? Like you that much

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anymore? She's like, oh,
you're taking a chance, yeah, not

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just videoing it, but in front
of everybody. Want to private, but

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anyway, she starts crying and she's
nodding her head. Yes. Yes.

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She was so shocked, like she
couldn't even speak. She's just overwhelmed.

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So now they're officially engaged. Her
mother, Joan, was skeptical about this

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relationship because Joan had learned a lot
of stuff. Cecilia, I mean sorry,

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Lisa had confided in her about what
the past year and a half two

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years of Button life, and it
wasn't his picture perfect suppressed as you would

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think. The outside, you have
this gorgeous couple, right, they're living

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in a luxury apartment having fun,
but there were a lot of things that

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happened hide and closed doors. Simon
became more controlling over Lisa, which is

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how a lot of the domestic violence
cases end up happening, right, that's

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how they start, and they get
control. Next thing, you know,

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you don't have any friends, any
family. Yeah, they isolate you.

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And so he starts telling her how
to dress. She could only wear pants,

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okay, okay. He told her
how to style her hair, which

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was in a ponytail. They no
longer went out to clubs the party have

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fun, mostly because Simon was really
uncomfortable with guys looking at her. Okay,

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he's insecure. He's extremely insecure.
Extremely, he's extremely insecure. A

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text she wants sad Lisas sent to
her mother a red like this. This

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is a quote. This relationship sure
has changed me a lot. Exclamation.

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I'm much more calm than I was
before, domesticated, conservative, dainty.

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I have nails now too, and
they're natural. I have a French manicure.

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I bought a whole bunch of flat
and casual shoes. Oh so she's

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not even allowed to wear heels.
No, no more heels, and she

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wrote no more cleavage. Jummerfraid.
Wow. She wrote, Simon is terrified

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of summer and the beach. He
said, we need to find a burka

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bathing suit for me to wear.
Eh he. Then she wrote, exo

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he he exo. I'm sure he
was not kidding. He rewinded her entirely

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covered up. I mean she was
beautiful to go out. Yeah no,

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and that's when her mom was this
is not a red bright, red flag,

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red time out. Not okay,
what's going on? She would have

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been even more worried if she knew
about Simon's past. Someone tell you it,

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all right, just briefly. Simon
was eighteen years old when he was

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basically what we would call here but
I'm probation. He was given in two

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year good behavior bond after savagely attacking
a deli owner who had confronted him because

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Simon was harassing a female worker was
his ex girlfriend. His ex girlfriend worked

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at this dally. Yes, and
he's harassing her and the owner gets involved,

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Yes, okay, and he just
what the wow? Yeah? Oh.

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In obviously nineteen ninety three, Simon
was caught outside a Era Matra nightclub

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with a car full of stolen goods, so he's stealing man. He didn't

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show for court, warrant was issued
for his arrest, and then in nineteen

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ninety four there was this whole string
of robberies thefts where he when Stantley was

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working Oh, he's just coincidentally worked
you just started going missing. Yeah,

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And there was this detective his name
was Detective Sergeant Keith Bristow and his partner.

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They went to Simon's family's home because
he lived with his parents. They

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were wearing regular clothes. The detectives
arrive in the doorstep and they have a

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warrant for his arrest because they believe
they have enough evidence to get him for

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stealing. But when the officers tried
to arrest him, all hell broke loose.

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This is crazy. Sergeant Bristow's partner
was struck and not to the ground,

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just out of nowhere by an old
school boombox. What I was like,

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bam, And it was either by
Simon's mom or his sister. Oh

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that's an unusual item to hit someone
with. Really, and why you why

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you hitting a cop? I know
you're not going to get away with this,

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Like it's not going to just go
away if you hit the cap and

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run off or do whatever. I
never understand why people do this. I

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mean I do understand why people.
It wasn't even him right anyway, So

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if you think that's bad, Sergeant
Bristow had a hold of Simon and he

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was struck, fell onto a bed
on top of Simon. So he's on

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top of Simon on a bad Simon
starts biting down on his ear. Oh

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no, and the sergeant is saying
don't, don't stop, stop, but

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there was no stopping Simon. Simon
then bit right through his ear and then

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spit it out. He did it, Mike Tyson right, Oh no to

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the police officer, the fuck is
this about? What the fuck is this?

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Come on now? A little cucko. In the end ended up getting

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kind of a slap on the wrist. He was jailed and after a pre

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supported Simon's claims that he'd undergone some
religious metamoris. He's found God. Simon

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left Australia into a strict Catholic order
at a monastery in Fringance. He every

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morning he would wake up around five
o'clock and he would just pray all day.

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Good for him, yeah, good
for him. Now he had this

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single bedroom and he was pretty much
isolated and he'd have his meals alone.

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And the priest who had supported all
of this claimed to the news channel seven

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News later that he really believed that
Simon had a good heart. Simon really

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wanted to do better, but he
didn't stick with that. How do you

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know why he's doing a spoiler I
mean spoiler alert, No, I mean

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obvious. That lasted a little over
a year and he left the monastery and

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he basically he couldn't handle a life
of celibacy. Yeah wow, So he

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left. Yeah, and he went
back to Sydney and he just kind of

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picked up we're left off. He
was going to nightclubs. One specifically from

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going from a monastery to a nightclub, right, you know what happened to

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the devotion, Well, just got
devoted to other things exactly. So one

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of the clubs he liked to go
to is called the Ivy Nightclub, and

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he ended up being arrested in two
thousand and one for drug trafficking, drug

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trafficking fifty two pills ecstasy tablets.
Whoa five thousand in cash all in his

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pants. Wow, they're all mine, I swear. Yeah, I just

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like to carry. I'm not going
to sell it. I'm not going to

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sell it. Sell it. No, he did, and he ended up

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pleading guilty to the charges. So
now let's fast forward. In December of

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two thousand and ten, Lisa went
back home to Canada to Toronto to visit

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her family, and she'd been with
him for about Simon about a year.

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Simon didn't end up going on this
trip. When Lisa got back home,

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both her brother and her mom noticed
some changes in her. She wore her

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hair and a ponytail. She didn't
wear makeup anymore. She was into makeup,

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remember, and fashion, and her
clothes were dull like black, gray,

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non revealing clothes, which was really
odd because again, she loved fashion.

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She loved fashion, she loved makeup, she loved being beautiful hair yes,

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yes, two just like us exactly, not only different. Lisa told

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her mom she wasn't supposed to see
her friends in Canada because Simon didn't want

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her to go out and he would
always check on her. She couldn't visit

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friends when she went back home,
No, because he's controlling or even then,

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oh man. And eventually Lisa comes
back to Sydney and there's an email

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that her mom sent basically saying that
Simon's is no good for you. You

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need to go. You need to
Mom's no best, right, they do?

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They do unless you ask my kids? Yeah, and I know you're

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kidding, You're a dip, right, annoying, the most un cool thing

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that's ever right. My daughter even
has me like pull down, like not

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in front of her school when I
let her out. Yeah, because for

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drop me off on the next black
please, I don't want to be nobody.

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Yeah. She even had me on
Facebook put that I wasn't related to

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her. It's it's humiliating to be
to know me. She's fifteen, by

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the way. Yeah, but mom's
always no. They always know. Even

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when when you were a teenager you
didn't want to listen to your mom.

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I didn't want my mom knew nothing. I knew everything exactly, so everything,

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but moms always no. The but
before I tell you more, quick

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break. So Lisa ends up telling
her mom, don't send me these messages

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because I think Simon might be reading
them. Oh, of course he probably

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is right, And Simon, of
course is Yeah. He's creep and he

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would have a very explosive personality.
Little things can make him go off.

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For example, if she prepared dinner
not right, or she was working out

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too long, he would just become
super angry. She felt like she was

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00:17:33.599 --> 00:17:40.599
tiptoeing around him, and she would
do everything possible to not make him upset.

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You know, try to be perfect, right, becau, it's just

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00:17:42.960 --> 00:17:47.160
not worth the explosion, like the
reaction you're going to get. And she

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probably thinks I am doing things like
he can probably guess lighting her, you

208
00:17:51.519 --> 00:17:56.880
know. Yeah. Eventually, despite
having to pay so Lisa had to pay

209
00:17:56.039 --> 00:18:03.359
fifteen hundred in rent a week.
A week, Simon convinced Lisa to stop

210
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working at the hair and beauty college. No, now she's going to become

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00:18:07.240 --> 00:18:15.039
financially dependent. Hinginging right, the
other form of abuse. In early twenty

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00:18:15.119 --> 00:18:18.079
eleven, Lisa told Simon she really
wanted a couple days to work. What

213
00:18:18.200 --> 00:18:23.039
is she doing? She's got no
kids sitting there doing what She's probably not

214
00:18:23.079 --> 00:18:26.640
allowed to go anywhere. She's not
allowed to hang out with her friends,

215
00:18:26.799 --> 00:18:30.039
right, She's probably stuck in that
apartment forever, not allowed to go out.

216
00:18:30.279 --> 00:18:37.400
Poor thing. He suggested that she
volunteer as a compromise, and they

217
00:18:37.440 --> 00:18:42.119
got into this big argument that ended
up with Lisa leaving. This is in

218
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February of two thousand and eleven,
and she left for a couple of days,

219
00:18:45.200 --> 00:18:49.640
but then they got back together almost
out I know. But during the

220
00:18:49.680 --> 00:18:55.200
time she was away, she confided
in her friend. Her name was Rebecca

221
00:18:55.480 --> 00:19:00.759
about the situation being smothered. Basically, right, she's being smothered. Then

222
00:19:00.799 --> 00:19:04.400
she gets back with him. With
Simon and Lisa's friend, Rebecca gets a

223
00:19:04.440 --> 00:19:10.720
message from Simon telling her to stay
out of their business and leave Lisa alone.

224
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In April of twenty eleven, Simon
sent some kind of abusive texts to

225
00:19:18.400 --> 00:19:25.640
Lisa. It was because she wore
her hair down. Oh no, yeah,

226
00:19:25.720 --> 00:19:29.559
there you go again. Yeah,
with that attitude, he wrote,

227
00:19:29.599 --> 00:19:33.720
Since you got an attitude and you
made the comment about me working during the

228
00:19:33.839 --> 00:19:37.279
day. There are two bills worth
nine hundred dollars, one for electricity and

229
00:19:37.279 --> 00:19:41.359
one for elstra. I don't actually
know what telstra is, but like gas

230
00:19:41.440 --> 00:19:45.400
or something. Yeah, probably I
want you to pay for them with your

231
00:19:45.440 --> 00:19:48.279
own money. With the with the
no job that she has. With the

232
00:19:48.359 --> 00:19:52.680
no job, Lisa replied, if
I had a job that paid me money

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00:19:52.039 --> 00:19:56.240
instead of something that you're comfortable with, then maybe I could pay something.

234
00:19:56.599 --> 00:20:02.359
You are a heartless, heartless person. This pissed Simon off. He's not

235
00:20:02.400 --> 00:20:04.640
a heartless person. No, of
course not. He's giving her everything,

236
00:20:06.480 --> 00:20:10.759
yes, giving her everything. What
is her problem? He wrote her back,

237
00:20:11.079 --> 00:20:15.640
quote, who the fuck you think
you are walking around the house like

238
00:20:15.759 --> 00:20:22.680
you own it, or coming and
going without my permission. Again, I've

239
00:20:22.720 --> 00:20:26.720
waited for you to apologize for your
disgusting comment, but you walk around like

240
00:20:26.759 --> 00:20:30.920
a peacock with your hair out and
too proud to apologize. You lie to

241
00:20:30.960 --> 00:20:36.480
me and promised you listen to me
at all times. Obviously you're still the

242
00:20:36.559 --> 00:20:40.880
proud person and nothing has changed.
I was trying to break her. How

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00:20:41.000 --> 00:20:44.160
dare you have your hair out?
They're not listening to me? Yeah,

244
00:20:44.200 --> 00:20:47.440
and you walk around like you own
them the place when I'm paying for everything,

245
00:20:47.519 --> 00:20:52.640
is really what he wanted to say. It's wow. Lisa's mom,

246
00:20:52.799 --> 00:20:57.359
Joan once told Channel seven News that
she overheard an argument between Lisa and Simon

247
00:20:57.680 --> 00:21:02.880
and Lisa was going to leave.
She went to grab her purse and Simon

248
00:21:02.920 --> 00:21:06.519
grabbed it and attempted to pull her
purse away. When he did it,

249
00:21:06.640 --> 00:21:11.359
he broke her finger. Oh.
Now, they'd only been engaged for five

250
00:21:11.680 --> 00:21:15.880
days when they got into this massive, heated argument. Simon sent a text

251
00:21:17.200 --> 00:21:22.279
to Lisa that said, quote,
Cecilia, you're my fiance and I love

252
00:21:22.319 --> 00:21:26.000
you, but we both know you
have problems. Yeah, it's all her,

253
00:21:26.400 --> 00:21:29.720
of course, it's her. All
her not fucking hem yes, lighting

254
00:21:29.799 --> 00:21:33.200
the fuck out her right. Oh
my god, the problems affect the mood

255
00:21:33.279 --> 00:21:37.680
of our relationship at times, but
you refuse to admit it. Please pray

256
00:21:37.720 --> 00:21:42.279
to God so he can help you
get rid of these habits. Oh,

257
00:21:42.359 --> 00:21:48.680
I'm so angry. It's such a
narcissist. So geez, it's all her

258
00:21:48.680 --> 00:21:51.240
fault. Like the only thing that
can help her is God, right,

259
00:21:51.720 --> 00:21:53.200
or listening to him? Yeah,
listening to him. She just listened to

260
00:21:53.279 --> 00:21:57.400
him. If she just listened,
all her problems would be solved. Lisa

261
00:21:59.039 --> 00:22:03.440
told him that I love you.
I do have faults. It doesn't though

262
00:22:03.079 --> 00:22:11.359
obviously Simon, I'm Simon, doesn't. Simon's perfect. Now he's perfect.

263
00:22:11.039 --> 00:22:15.039
She said, she has lots of
faults, but she was heartbroken when he

264
00:22:15.039 --> 00:22:18.519
would yell at her rather than try
to help her work through her problems.

265
00:22:18.880 --> 00:22:22.960
And this pissed him off because he's
always pissed, right, And he told

266
00:22:22.960 --> 00:22:26.039
her, basically, you need to
fix yourself. Okay, Well, let

267
00:22:26.119 --> 00:22:30.079
me where you with her? Then
if she's so broken, because he's trying,

268
00:22:30.119 --> 00:22:33.240
because she can be a good person, if he sees the potential,

269
00:22:33.880 --> 00:22:37.759
if she would just do everything he
said, everything things started to change for

270
00:22:37.839 --> 00:22:44.000
Lisa. She told her mom she
was considering moving to Melvin. I always

271
00:22:44.039 --> 00:22:48.240
want to say Melbourne. I always
want to say Melbourne, Melvin, Melvin

272
00:22:48.599 --> 00:22:53.279
m h into a rental property.
She basically what she was stating is that

273
00:22:53.400 --> 00:22:59.119
the excitement or of the engagement that
was that was over, the reality of

274
00:22:59.160 --> 00:23:03.799
the situation was setting in. But
Simon stopped that from happening by calling Lisa's

275
00:23:03.799 --> 00:23:07.720
friend and being like, don't you
even think of letting her rent that place

276
00:23:08.160 --> 00:23:12.559
from you? And given all the
stress that Lisa was going through, her

277
00:23:12.839 --> 00:23:22.200
eating disorder resurfaced and she recognized that
she was having issues. She decided to

278
00:23:22.240 --> 00:23:26.880
see a personal trainer she was working
out, and she told the trainer that

279
00:23:26.160 --> 00:23:33.319
she was struggling with an eating disorder
and she was trying to get healthier work

280
00:23:33.319 --> 00:23:38.680
out. The personal trainer recommended that
Lisa speak to a counselor who had experience

281
00:23:38.720 --> 00:23:45.039
with eating disorders, and the counselor's
name was Michelle Richmond. Lisa called see

282
00:23:45.119 --> 00:23:49.000
Michelle and asked her, can we
make sure that you don't take any notes

283
00:23:51.079 --> 00:23:55.839
of when we meet, because I'm
really worried that Simon will somehow get his

284
00:23:55.960 --> 00:24:03.400
hands. On these notes, she
expressed how she felt very isolated and believed

285
00:24:03.400 --> 00:24:07.079
that he was monitoring everything she was
doing. She did explain to Michelle how

286
00:24:07.160 --> 00:24:11.160
she had a felt a loss of
control, couldn't wear what she wanted to

287
00:24:11.160 --> 00:24:17.039
wear, couldn't go be with her
friends, couldn't do the things that she

288
00:24:17.160 --> 00:24:21.279
wanted to do, and she wasn't
even allowed to look at guys when they

289
00:24:21.279 --> 00:24:23.480
were together. What if she accidentally
did, she would get mad. You

290
00:24:23.559 --> 00:24:26.759
have to look at the floor all
the time. But at that point,

291
00:24:26.839 --> 00:24:33.279
she said she wasn't physically abused.
But Michelle was very concerned about her safety

292
00:24:33.319 --> 00:24:37.599
and recommended that maybe she go to
a shelter for abuse women and suggested that

293
00:24:37.680 --> 00:24:42.720
she slowly move her belongings to a
storage unit, you know, just to

294
00:24:42.759 --> 00:24:48.680
get out. But Lisa was she
was just too afraid of it. On

295
00:24:48.799 --> 00:24:53.240
July twenty eight, twenty eleven,
she met with her personal trainer for the

296
00:24:53.319 --> 00:25:00.000
last time, and the personal trainer
could sense that something was right with Lisa.

297
00:25:00.559 --> 00:25:07.240
She seems stressed, nervous. Lisa
ended up handing over two pillowcases full

298
00:25:07.279 --> 00:25:11.400
of clothes and said she was planning
on leaving and she's going to go back

299
00:25:11.440 --> 00:25:17.759
to work as a job a hairdresser. She had these two pillowcases and she

300
00:25:17.880 --> 00:25:21.880
ended up bringing stuff to a storage
unit that she did rent with her own

301
00:25:21.920 --> 00:25:25.039
money. I don't know how she
had her own money, but she did.

302
00:25:25.480 --> 00:25:30.279
Eventually, though, Simon confronted her
about this, and you said,

303
00:25:30.279 --> 00:25:36.640
well, how would he know because
he's been monitoring her calls, for text

304
00:25:36.680 --> 00:25:40.880
messages, everything she does. Did
she have like spyware on her computer?

305
00:25:40.920 --> 00:25:47.680
And spoiler alert? Oh man,
yes, so he saw everything. Everything,

306
00:25:48.000 --> 00:25:51.960
everything that's tax that was like her
part time job. Yeah, what

307
00:25:52.000 --> 00:25:55.559
the hell does he You know how
much time you have to invest to do

308
00:25:55.640 --> 00:25:57.200
something like that. I mean,
I'm not you tell me I've never been

309
00:25:57.480 --> 00:26:04.519
I mean I've never done it.
Geez. Around seven pm, Michelle,

310
00:26:04.559 --> 00:26:08.559
the counselor, received a call from
Lisa's phone, but no one spoke.

311
00:26:10.200 --> 00:26:14.440
Michelle called the number back, called
Lisa's number back, and Simon answered and

312
00:26:14.480 --> 00:26:19.039
said, Michelle, you fucking bitch, try to contact her or have anything

313
00:26:19.079 --> 00:26:22.680
to do with her. I know
where you live, and I'll hurt you.

314
00:26:22.039 --> 00:26:26.359
What. Yeah, now he's like
frightening her. I didn't even give

315
00:26:26.359 --> 00:26:33.079
a fuck. No. Then Michelle
received a text from Lisa that read quote,

316
00:26:33.279 --> 00:26:37.799
leave me alone. You've ruined my
relationship. Drop all my stuff off

317
00:26:37.839 --> 00:26:41.880
at Concierge no later than tomorrow at
ten am. Okay could She had given

318
00:26:41.960 --> 00:26:48.440
some stuff to Michelle too. On
July twenty ninth, Lisa called her mom

319
00:26:48.440 --> 00:26:53.200
in Canada and told her to write
down the following information. It was all

320
00:26:53.240 --> 00:26:59.680
of Michelle's contact information, and she
said Lisa said, quote, if anything

321
00:26:59.720 --> 00:27:03.920
happen happens to me, please contact
Michelle. Oh that's got to be a

322
00:27:03.880 --> 00:27:08.240
asmara. Mom. Yes, a
terrifying thing to hear from your daughter if

323
00:27:08.279 --> 00:27:14.119
anything happens to me and she's way
in Canada on the other side of the

324
00:27:14.200 --> 00:27:17.359
world. Yeah, you know,
yes, Yeah. I was just so

325
00:27:17.640 --> 00:27:22.119
helpless, and basically your mom said
you need to come on back right now,

326
00:27:22.319 --> 00:27:26.319
get back here immediately, asked to
the airport stat So Lisa went online

327
00:27:26.400 --> 00:27:32.839
and she tried to book some tickets
and work out her visa. Later that

328
00:27:32.960 --> 00:27:36.799
day, she called her mom and
told her Simon had found out what she

329
00:27:36.960 --> 00:27:42.640
was doing, and Lisa found files
on the computer that showed all the tracking

330
00:27:44.160 --> 00:27:51.000
Simon had been doing with her.
Later that night, Misschelle Counselor received a

331
00:27:51.039 --> 00:27:56.519
message from Lisa. It said quote, I wish I never met you because

332
00:27:56.960 --> 00:28:00.400
you have ruined my life. I've
been kids out of the house by Simon.

333
00:28:00.759 --> 00:28:06.640
I had everything with Simon, but
you brainwashed me Michelle, and now

334
00:28:06.720 --> 00:28:11.279
I'm on the streets with nothing.
I want the money I paid for you

335
00:28:11.440 --> 00:28:15.480
ruining my life as I'm broke and
need money. You should be ashamed of

336
00:28:15.519 --> 00:28:19.559
yourself. Thank you for this big
mess you've created. Wow, of course

337
00:28:19.920 --> 00:28:25.119
it wasn't Lisa. It wasn't It
wasn't Lisa, it was Simon. Yeah.

338
00:28:25.519 --> 00:28:30.519
It's mid morning July thirtieth, twenty
eleven. There's this Japanese exchange student

339
00:28:30.880 --> 00:28:34.720
and he's walking down to Liverpool Street. I don't know where that is.

340
00:28:34.960 --> 00:28:40.440
He's going to catch a bus home
with his brother. He's waiting on the

341
00:28:40.519 --> 00:28:45.519
Hyde Park side of the street.
I remember I told you that they had

342
00:28:45.720 --> 00:28:51.440
this panoramic view with all glass that
faced the park. So he's waiting there

343
00:28:51.480 --> 00:28:56.279
for the bus and he hears something
that caused him to look up the fifteenth

344
00:28:56.279 --> 00:29:02.839
floor. Then he saw something fall
down the side of the building. And

345
00:29:02.880 --> 00:29:10.480
where the object that fell from where
the fifteenth floor, he could see what

346
00:29:10.599 --> 00:29:15.000
looked like a man that was shirtless
leaning over the side of the balcony and

347
00:29:15.039 --> 00:29:19.480
then this is all happening quick right
right, and then bam, he hears

348
00:29:19.480 --> 00:29:26.880
something hit the ground. At first
he thought it was garbage, and then

349
00:29:26.319 --> 00:29:33.599
that someone had thrown out the window, but obviously no, it was Lisa.

350
00:29:33.599 --> 00:29:38.599
And then there's this video of Simon
trying to get going into an elevator

351
00:29:38.839 --> 00:29:44.200
and he had put on a shirt. He's in his pajamas and he's just

352
00:29:44.440 --> 00:29:48.480
making weird hand gestures and freaking out
and he comes running down in a hysterical

353
00:29:48.519 --> 00:29:53.519
state to Lisa's body. Some of
the people, because this is an ari

354
00:29:53.559 --> 00:29:57.839
it's in Sydney, some of the
people they stop and they see Lisa and

355
00:29:57.880 --> 00:30:03.039
they try to recess it, try
to help her, and it was too

356
00:30:03.079 --> 00:30:07.559
late. Yeah, fifteen stories.
Fifteen stories is not survival. No,

357
00:30:08.200 --> 00:30:11.400
oh my god, I don't want
to think about it. That's Selsa's body

358
00:30:11.480 --> 00:30:15.559
is or purse which had fallen with
her, and this is really weird.

359
00:30:17.440 --> 00:30:22.519
In her pocket was this piece of
paper and it's probably like this big and

360
00:30:22.559 --> 00:30:29.519
it's ripped multiple times this way.
On the paper it says there are surveillance

361
00:30:29.559 --> 00:30:33.400
cameras inside and outside of the house. Why is it in her pocket.

362
00:30:33.559 --> 00:30:37.319
Yeah, and why is it ripped
up? I don't know. Someone had

363
00:30:37.400 --> 00:30:42.359
installed there was cameras in their apartments
and outside their apartment. I don't know

364
00:30:42.400 --> 00:30:45.880
exactly where they were in it,
but I know he had them outside too.

365
00:30:48.000 --> 00:30:52.519
He wanted to track when she's leaving, when she's coming back, what

366
00:30:52.599 --> 00:31:00.839
she's doing. CCTV footage showed that
only sixty nine seconds before Lisa fell from

367
00:31:00.839 --> 00:31:07.119
the building, she can be seen
running out of the apartment and Simon's chasing

368
00:31:07.160 --> 00:31:11.480
after her, and he grabs her
and he ends up putting his hand around

369
00:31:11.519 --> 00:31:17.160
her mouth. Neighbors other apartment units, people in the other units, could

370
00:31:17.160 --> 00:31:22.160
hear please help me, God help
me? That's sixty nine seconds before her

371
00:31:22.200 --> 00:31:27.200
body's wow over. As I said, After Lisa falls, Simon is seen

372
00:31:27.400 --> 00:31:30.880
on this footage in front of his
door, and he's trying to get an

373
00:31:30.880 --> 00:31:34.880
elevator, and he's pacing back and
forth, waiting, waiting, waiting for

374
00:31:34.920 --> 00:31:40.079
the elevator, and then in the
elevator as side, he's clearly freaking out,

375
00:31:40.559 --> 00:31:44.920
running around like a rat in a
cage. All the while, Joan

376
00:31:45.039 --> 00:31:48.119
has been texting, oh no,
because Lisa was supposed to get the tickets

377
00:31:48.519 --> 00:31:53.839
to fly Toronto, So Toronto,
and Joan hasn't heard from Lisa now,

378
00:31:55.440 --> 00:31:59.839
and she texts Simon, quote,
please tell me that Lisa's okay. This

379
00:32:00.200 --> 00:32:04.519
is a mother pleading with you,
wanting to know she's okay. And it

380
00:32:04.640 --> 00:32:09.039
was about two am that Joan got
a call from the police stating her daughter

381
00:32:09.119 --> 00:32:15.240
was dead. Oh so Simon had
his own version of events. Oh yeah,

382
00:32:15.240 --> 00:32:17.640
what's he got to say? Yeah, I can't wait hear this.

383
00:32:17.720 --> 00:32:22.119
He's got shit to say. He
told the police that she fell, she

384
00:32:22.880 --> 00:32:28.960
fell from the balcony. Okay,
So it's July thirtieth. He woke up

385
00:32:29.160 --> 00:32:34.240
to go on his computer and to
look at his spyware. Of course he

386
00:32:34.279 --> 00:32:37.720
couldn't log in or something happened,
so he tells the police he has a

387
00:32:37.720 --> 00:32:40.519
spywear. Yeah, he's trying to
be forthcoming. Yeah right, he's just

388
00:32:40.559 --> 00:32:45.759
being honest. And then he looks
at porn Okay after the spywear, and

389
00:32:45.799 --> 00:32:51.480
he tells the police's looking at some
porn okay for some reason, I guess,

390
00:32:51.519 --> 00:32:53.440
he wasn't able to get in the
spyware, so he tries to log

391
00:32:53.480 --> 00:32:57.720
in again, but he was unable
to and he found out that Lisa had

392
00:32:57.799 --> 00:33:01.119
changed the password. Oh, she
got into it. Wow, I don't

393
00:33:01.160 --> 00:33:05.440
know. Oh, they probably set
him off. Yes, hello, right,

394
00:33:06.000 --> 00:33:09.720
and so he's pissed. They're arguing
for a while, and then he

395
00:33:09.759 --> 00:33:13.519
went. He says, he went
back to bed, and he said he

396
00:33:13.920 --> 00:33:17.640
got up a little later and found
that Lisa had packed her bags and she's

397
00:33:19.279 --> 00:33:24.880
booking a flight. She's leaving,
and he challenged her as she grabbed her

398
00:33:24.960 --> 00:33:29.720
purse to run out the door.
He chased after her. He admitted that

399
00:33:30.079 --> 00:33:34.519
he grabbed her and he brought her
back into the apartment and wanted to talk.

400
00:33:34.799 --> 00:33:37.480
He was gonna make her some tea. Uh huh, make her some

401
00:33:37.880 --> 00:33:42.960
time. Uh huh. Sure,
gonna make her some tea and they're gonna

402
00:33:42.960 --> 00:33:46.240
work things out. But after he
brought her back in, she ran out

403
00:33:46.279 --> 00:33:50.400
again. I mean they were,
they're in the hallway, he's grabbing her,

404
00:33:50.519 --> 00:33:52.920
she's it's probably a frantic scene.
Come oh, it's bad. Yeah,

405
00:33:52.960 --> 00:33:57.200
and we're just gonna come have a
calm cup of tea. No,

406
00:33:57.680 --> 00:34:00.079
I don't believe this at all.
He says. Lisa ran from the couch

407
00:34:00.640 --> 00:34:06.759
while he's making tea. She's just
making the tea and instead of running out

408
00:34:06.799 --> 00:34:10.440
the door, she ran to the
balcony. Yeah, that's yes, bullshit

409
00:34:10.760 --> 00:34:15.559
bullshit. Why bullshit meter is going
off real real high bullshit, Like,

410
00:34:15.559 --> 00:34:16.639
why would you run to the balcony? Yeah, why would you run to

411
00:34:16.639 --> 00:34:20.840
the balcony instead of running for the
door. Again, he tries to get

412
00:34:20.880 --> 00:34:23.960
her in time. She's got one
leg. Oh, she's gonna jump over

413
00:34:24.000 --> 00:34:29.960
the balcony and the balcony so everybody
knows, is glass. It's a glass

414
00:34:30.000 --> 00:34:34.480
balcony with a little bit of a
metal railing. She's got one leg over

415
00:34:34.920 --> 00:34:38.199
the balcony, and she's got a
purse on her and she's gonna jump with

416
00:34:38.199 --> 00:34:43.079
her purse. Okay, that's a
good point. Come on now, Yeah,

417
00:34:43.320 --> 00:34:45.800
again the bullshit. And she's gonna
jump instead of trying to leave.

418
00:34:45.280 --> 00:34:51.519
Yes, she tries to get there
and she slips, and he says,

419
00:34:51.559 --> 00:34:57.199
she's laying on the awning below and
grabbing the balcony and then she just looses

420
00:34:57.239 --> 00:35:00.519
her grip and she's gone. Fifteen
stores. There were no signs of a

421
00:35:00.559 --> 00:35:07.159
struggle, no, and so maybe
his story could have been something that the

422
00:35:07.199 --> 00:35:14.360
police could possibly have believed. But
there was more people that witnessed what happened.

423
00:35:15.039 --> 00:35:19.440
In particular, there was a guy
named Josh Josh Rathmol He was an

424
00:35:19.559 --> 00:35:23.079
editor for I think ABC at the
time, and he's just walking in the

425
00:35:23.119 --> 00:35:30.599
park when he notices something across the
road at the Hyde Park apartment complex.

426
00:35:31.199 --> 00:35:37.800
He looked up and what he believes
he saw was someone without a shirt caring

427
00:35:37.360 --> 00:35:45.159
what he thought was a suitcase okay, and it looked to Josh like the

428
00:35:45.199 --> 00:35:52.119
person was throwing the suitcase over the
balcony. And that ends up being what

429
00:35:52.320 --> 00:35:59.400
gets gets Simon. So four days
after Lisa's death, he was formally charged

430
00:35:59.400 --> 00:36:04.639
with her murder. He's got these
murder charges hanging over his head. He's

431
00:36:04.960 --> 00:36:09.679
in jail, but he manages to
find love still. Really, he's got

432
00:36:09.679 --> 00:36:15.519
a new girlfriend. Her name is
Rachel. Rachel. She was twenty fourth

433
00:36:15.679 --> 00:36:19.559
time of his trial. He's got
to be like forty, right, because

434
00:36:19.559 --> 00:36:22.360
he was ten years older than yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, Well

435
00:36:22.400 --> 00:36:25.559
what they met in two thousand and
nine and they claim they were just friends,

436
00:36:25.599 --> 00:36:31.159
but people believe, I don't know
that perhaps they were more, but

437
00:36:31.280 --> 00:36:36.320
maybe he was cheating and Lisa,
Yes, well that would explain a lot.

438
00:36:36.760 --> 00:36:38.039
I'm not saying it happened. I
don't know. I don't know.

439
00:36:38.199 --> 00:36:42.000
I wasn't there. I wasn't there. It's a legend, yes, and

440
00:36:42.079 --> 00:36:45.679
I close friends. One of the
things that really surprised people is how much

441
00:36:45.719 --> 00:36:51.480
that Lisa and Rachel looked a lot
alike. Really, they both had long,

442
00:36:51.559 --> 00:36:54.480
dark hair, slim figures, brown
eyes. Later on, Rachel would

443
00:36:54.480 --> 00:36:58.880
say that she didn't see any resemblance
whatsoever. Well, do you really want

444
00:36:58.920 --> 00:37:01.239
to see a resemblance? Right?
Right? Right? No? No,

445
00:37:01.239 --> 00:37:06.519
no, with your boyfriend's old girlfriend
that's dead. Yeah, no, no.

446
00:37:07.559 --> 00:37:12.280
Simon ends up instead of having a
jury trial, he chooses to have

447
00:37:12.639 --> 00:37:15.119
a trial by judge, basically probably
because everybody thought it was an asshole.

448
00:37:15.679 --> 00:37:19.920
I'm guessing, I'm speculating. I
don't know. To me, that would

449
00:37:19.960 --> 00:37:22.880
be risky because in a jury trial
you have to convince all twelve people.

450
00:37:23.039 --> 00:37:27.320
That's true, but I mean there
could be just one person, like a

451
00:37:27.360 --> 00:37:30.400
holdout, thinking that you're innocent,
whereas if you're having a bench trial and

452
00:37:30.440 --> 00:37:35.480
the judge is just deciding it's only
one person. But a judge is going

453
00:37:35.519 --> 00:37:37.639
to look at the law and not
be based on emotions. That's true,

454
00:37:37.800 --> 00:37:42.159
like, oh you're an asshole,
so so you're guilty, right, It

455
00:37:42.239 --> 00:37:45.000
is true. My thought but I
think I would gamble on a jury trial.

456
00:37:45.440 --> 00:37:49.679
Yeah, I think I would.
I mean, I think I'm likable

457
00:37:49.800 --> 00:37:52.880
enough. I mean I would never, you know, hope to be in

458
00:37:52.880 --> 00:37:57.039
that situation. But yeah, I
think I would just gamble it. But

459
00:37:57.079 --> 00:38:00.000
okay, as lawyers always want a
jury trial, Yes, all you gotta

460
00:38:00.000 --> 00:38:04.599
do is appear likable, like you
said, well maybe, yeah, no

461
00:38:04.679 --> 00:38:07.320
he's not. Maybe you know,
if I could just charm the jury and

462
00:38:07.639 --> 00:38:10.480
that one person, one person,
well a least he didn't take the stand.

463
00:38:12.239 --> 00:38:15.199
Oh that's too bad, because I
would love to see that. And

464
00:38:15.239 --> 00:38:19.360
he's not that big of a narcissist. I'm surprised. His trial began October

465
00:38:19.400 --> 00:38:24.159
twenty First, the prosecutors painted this
picture of Simon jealous, abusive partner,

466
00:38:24.719 --> 00:38:30.400
how he alienated Lisa from her friends
and family. They brought up all the

467
00:38:30.480 --> 00:38:37.639
surveillance and tracking and controlling, and
then how coincidentally when she finally has the

468
00:38:37.719 --> 00:38:43.639
courage to leave, she's dead.
Yeah, but Simon tried to paint it

469
00:38:43.880 --> 00:38:47.880
differently. His defense attorney said that
she'd had depression in when she she was

470
00:38:47.920 --> 00:38:53.440
younger, she had issues, and
that she committed suicide. What a crack

471
00:38:53.480 --> 00:38:58.039
of shit, I guess it's the
only defense he really has. I know,

472
00:38:58.199 --> 00:39:02.960
we call it polishing a turd.
You have a really bad true crime

473
00:39:04.159 --> 00:39:07.519
daily, you know, we do
call it polishing a turn. Yeah,

474
00:39:07.519 --> 00:39:10.280
when you have a bad professional term, it's a professional terms. That's what

475
00:39:10.280 --> 00:39:15.119
his lawyers had to do, was
polish a turn. So they tried basically

476
00:39:15.880 --> 00:39:21.400
he just that was the gist of
it. But then when Josh Wrath Maul

477
00:39:21.760 --> 00:39:25.920
testified, that was kind of the
nail in the coffin. And then also,

478
00:39:27.119 --> 00:39:30.480
by the way, the prosecutors brought
up so we have this glass balcony,

479
00:39:31.039 --> 00:39:35.719
there's no fingerprints of Lisa's on it, and then it should be filled

480
00:39:35.719 --> 00:39:40.360
with fingerprints she's trying to climb over
it and struggling and slipping. Yeah,

481
00:39:40.360 --> 00:39:46.760
there was none. So they had
all the witnesses testified, and the trial

482
00:39:46.960 --> 00:39:51.079
actually lasted for four weeks, which
seems I mean, it's that's kind of

483
00:39:51.480 --> 00:39:54.239
a long time. A long time
for this. I don't know, it's

484
00:39:54.239 --> 00:39:58.199
not a O. J. Simpson
case here, you know, but some

485
00:39:58.360 --> 00:40:01.400
serial killer with like up to victims
or something. But okay, well,

486
00:40:01.400 --> 00:40:06.199
guess what the judge thought. I'm
really hoping the judge thought he was guilty.

487
00:40:06.280 --> 00:40:10.559
Yes, of course, the judge
thinked everybody and then said, quote

488
00:40:10.599 --> 00:40:15.199
and many times in his evidence,
the accused struck me as a person playing

489
00:40:15.239 --> 00:40:20.239
a role, telling a story which
fitted neatly with the objective evidence, but

490
00:40:20.519 --> 00:40:23.800
which did not more than that.
I don't know if that exactly means.

491
00:40:24.000 --> 00:40:30.039
Basically, what she's saying is his
account often made him probably look better,

492
00:40:30.199 --> 00:40:34.039
yes, and it was like didn't
match the facts. Yeah, she saw

493
00:40:34.119 --> 00:40:36.960
right through his bullshit, Yes she
did. She didn't like that they were

494
00:40:36.960 --> 00:40:39.400
trying to sabotage for a character.
She said, there's no doubt in my

495
00:40:39.480 --> 00:40:44.039
mind that he was in a state
of rage at that point and he lost

496
00:40:44.079 --> 00:40:46.239
control of his temper. That's probably
true. Oh yeah, of course too

497
00:40:46.559 --> 00:40:52.639
the proposition that he was able to
bring himself under control so quickly after the

498
00:40:52.800 --> 00:40:59.599
struggle that they saw on the CCTV
footage where he's grabbing her by the mouth

499
00:41:00.159 --> 00:41:04.360
like behind her, yeah, and
pulling her back into the apartment, and

500
00:41:04.400 --> 00:41:08.039
then in sixty nine seconds she's not
over the balcony. He's calmed down,

501
00:41:08.119 --> 00:41:13.880
making tea yeah yeah, and she
yeah, climbing is over that. The

502
00:41:13.960 --> 00:41:16.280
judge that I cannot know exactly what
happened in the apartment in the minute or

503
00:41:16.320 --> 00:41:22.039
so following the struggle at the door. But I think it's likely that Lisa

504
00:41:22.119 --> 00:41:28.079
Harnum was at some point rendered unconscious. Oh that's her theory. In those

505
00:41:28.079 --> 00:41:30.719
sixty nine seconds, I was wondering, like, if she was she wasn't

506
00:41:30.760 --> 00:41:36.320
screaming or really like struggling, that
would make sense. Yeah, I mean,

507
00:41:36.320 --> 00:41:38.880
in sixty nine seconds, you can
make some pull someone in and make

508
00:41:38.920 --> 00:41:43.360
them at least unconscious. Yeah,
I mean I wasn't there. I'm just

509
00:41:43.400 --> 00:41:47.800
saying it makes sense. Based on
my assessment of all the evidence, I'm

510
00:41:47.840 --> 00:41:53.480
satisfied beyond reasonable doubt that the accused
maintained his rage and in that state carried

511
00:41:53.519 --> 00:41:59.000
her to the balcony and unloaded her
over the edge. I find the accused

512
00:41:59.000 --> 00:42:06.480
guilty of the murder of Lisa Cecilia. That's when Rachel, Rachel screamed,

513
00:42:06.480 --> 00:42:09.719
you're wrong, you're wrong. She
had to be restrained. She eventually went

514
00:42:09.760 --> 00:42:14.760
outside where all the reporters were,
took out a cigarette and asked if anybody

515
00:42:14.800 --> 00:42:19.800
had a lighter, and she just
was filmed in front of everybody, crying

516
00:42:19.880 --> 00:42:23.000
hysterically, and Simon's mom had to
be taken away by him. I can

517
00:42:23.159 --> 00:42:27.400
understand his mom. Yeah, you
don't want to think that your child did

518
00:42:27.440 --> 00:42:31.639
this. And that's basically the gist. He did end up getting twenty six

519
00:42:31.800 --> 00:42:36.320
years Was it twenty six to life? It was twenty six years in jail

520
00:42:36.360 --> 00:42:42.360
with the minimum nonparroll of for eighteen
years. Okay, Wow, damn,

521
00:42:43.079 --> 00:42:50.000
that's a crazy story. Rachel ended
up suing the Daily Telegraph because they wrote

522
00:42:50.039 --> 00:42:54.280
three stories about our calling her stripper
bis gale or a woman of no morals.

523
00:42:54.679 --> 00:42:59.920
Oh well, they shouldn't be writing
things like that in her defense unless

524
00:43:00.679 --> 00:43:02.400
unless she was. I mean,
I don't know, I don't know,

525
00:43:02.400 --> 00:43:07.440
I don't know, but I guess
they settled, so maybe she wasn't.

526
00:43:07.639 --> 00:43:10.559
Those tabloids love to just stir ship
up. Wow, this is a terrible,

527
00:43:10.639 --> 00:43:13.719
terrible story. You know, I
hate the miss I mean, I

528
00:43:13.719 --> 00:43:15.480
hate I hate all of them.
I'm like, I hate domestic violence stories,

529
00:43:15.519 --> 00:43:21.599
but I hate everything every story we
do. I hate. It's just

530
00:43:21.599 --> 00:43:25.159
so sad, Like she was so
close, I know, that's a getting

531
00:43:25.199 --> 00:43:30.320
thing, like her poor mother,
Like she actually got out of the apartment

532
00:43:30.960 --> 00:43:36.519
and he dragged her back in.
Wow. Well, thanks, you're welcome.

533
00:43:36.519 --> 00:43:39.840
Thanks for that and if anybody out
there is suffering from domestic violence,

534
00:43:40.159 --> 00:43:45.960
please reach out to someone and get
help. Yes, definitely you and you

535
00:43:45.960 --> 00:43:50.760
may feel like you have no way
out or you're alone or something, but

536
00:43:50.800 --> 00:43:54.239
there are resources and just get out, Just get out. It could save

537
00:43:54.280 --> 00:43:59.320
your life. That's a sort of
Lisa. Well, thank you everyone for

538
00:43:59.519 --> 00:44:05.079
watching and listening and listening to our
episode this week. If you would like

539
00:44:05.199 --> 00:44:08.679
to find out more about us or
about becoming a Patreon member where you can

540
00:44:08.719 --> 00:44:14.000
get additional episodes, you can go
to our website Crimesanconsequences dot com, or

541
00:44:14.039 --> 00:44:17.400
you can go to Patreon dot com, slash t nt Crimes. You can

542
00:44:17.440 --> 00:44:23.559
find us on social media, Facebook
and Instagram at Hardcore true Crime. You're

543
00:44:23.599 --> 00:44:27.440
so cute right now. You look
like to me like you'd be a school

544
00:44:27.480 --> 00:44:31.519
team like our Sunday school teacher.
And that's all we have for today.

545
00:44:31.599 --> 00:44:35.880
Hey you ever today, and thank
you again to True Crime Daily and until

546
00:44:35.880 --> 00:44:47.599
our next episode, listen and don't
kill each other. Bye bye