WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.960 --> 00:00:10.960 Big Food and Beyond with Cliff and Bubo. These gays a favorites, so 2 00:00:11.240 --> 00:00:21.440 like say subscribe and read it five star and greatest on USh Today listening watching 3 00:00:21.960 --> 00:00:30.120 Relim always keep its watching. And now your host's Cliff Barrickman and James Bubo 4 00:00:30.199 --> 00:00:33.719 Fay. Well, okay, without much further to do, let's welcome our 5 00:00:33.759 --> 00:00:39.039 guests, doctor John barn Chock. He's written, actually, he's written written 6 00:00:39.039 --> 00:00:42.000 a couple books, quite a few books actually, but this the book we're 7 00:00:42.000 --> 00:00:47.679 talking about today, is called Grasping Sasquatch Prepping for Scientific Field Research. It 8 00:00:47.799 --> 00:00:51.399 is an updated reprint of his previous book that probably a lot of you have 9 00:00:51.600 --> 00:00:56.759 out there, called Psychological Horizons and Scientific Bigfoot Research. But this is the 10 00:00:56.799 --> 00:01:00.280 new version and he's publishing it through Hangar one Press, which is Doug Hide's 11 00:01:00.320 --> 00:01:03.759 great publishing company out there. So when this comes out, the new version, 12 00:01:03.799 --> 00:01:06.400 there's going to be links, there's gonna be QR codes, there's gonna 13 00:01:06.400 --> 00:01:11.879 be all sorts of doodads and bells and whistles embedded in the book to further 14 00:01:11.120 --> 00:01:15.640 enhance your reading experience of it. So, without anything else to say, 15 00:01:17.280 --> 00:01:22.159 here's the author of Grasping Sasquatch prepping for the scientific field research Doctor John barn 16 00:01:22.280 --> 00:01:25.079 Chock. Doctor John, thanks so much for coming on Bigfoot and Beyond with 17 00:01:25.120 --> 00:01:27.400 Cliff and the Bobes. Yeah, thanks so much for having me. I'm 18 00:01:27.439 --> 00:01:33.719 honored to be here and really excited about talking with you guys about this book. 19 00:01:34.239 --> 00:01:38.319 Thanks for coming. Yeah, I really appreciate the invite. Very good. 20 00:01:38.400 --> 00:01:40.560 Now, don John, I don't I don't think I've ever met you. 21 00:01:40.920 --> 00:01:42.439 I certainly don't know you, but I don't. As far as meeting 22 00:01:42.480 --> 00:01:45.280 people, I have a hard time with that one too, because I meet 23 00:01:45.359 --> 00:01:49.519 hard too many people to remember. But it seems to me like you've been 24 00:01:49.560 --> 00:01:53.159 in the game for quite a long time, this bigfoot thing, and yet 25 00:01:53.200 --> 00:01:57.840 you're still swimming around in it. So where did their journey in the Bigfoot 26 00:01:57.920 --> 00:02:01.719 land begin? So? I I reached a point in my life where I 27 00:02:01.879 --> 00:02:07.240 was kind of cleaning house and decided I wanted to get back to things that 28 00:02:07.479 --> 00:02:13.879 I enjoyed and that were a priority for me, and so I started living 29 00:02:14.000 --> 00:02:19.520 in North Georgia, where I do. I started looking for places to fish 30 00:02:20.280 --> 00:02:23.680 because I grew up trout fishing as a kid, and I just started going 31 00:02:23.800 --> 00:02:30.560 on the internet for trout fishing maps, and I came across this map of 32 00:02:30.680 --> 00:02:36.360 the United States with circles in a lot of the states, and I thought, 33 00:02:36.439 --> 00:02:38.479 oh, that must be the you know, the number of streams that 34 00:02:38.840 --> 00:02:44.360 that fish there or whatever. And I clicked on that circle and lo and 35 00:02:44.479 --> 00:02:51.439 behold it was the BFRO expedition page. And so you know, that's the 36 00:02:51.520 --> 00:02:54.719 first time I had encountered that. So I checked that out, and I 37 00:02:54.879 --> 00:03:00.800 got on Laurie Wade's one of her last one of her last well, I 38 00:03:00.879 --> 00:03:06.680 think it was her last expedition for the year. I don't know how many, 39 00:03:06.719 --> 00:03:13.759 about eight years ago, and I've been doing it ever since. I 40 00:03:13.879 --> 00:03:19.000 counted up the hours actually actually in the woods, not setting up camp, 41 00:03:19.199 --> 00:03:24.080 not traveling to the side anything like just when we leave base camp and go 42 00:03:24.280 --> 00:03:30.400 out and start looking, and I've got over three hundred hours of just looking 43 00:03:30.639 --> 00:03:38.000 in the woods through expeditions with Lorie Wade and Charlie Raymond. I feel like 44 00:03:38.120 --> 00:03:43.599 a lot of the people in both those groups have been my mentors. And 45 00:03:43.840 --> 00:03:47.840 so I actually started getting into bigfoot kind of because I was looking for fishing 46 00:03:47.919 --> 00:03:53.560 maps and figured, well, if I can fish and look for bigfoot, 47 00:03:53.639 --> 00:03:57.400 you know, I'm killing two birds with one stone, and that's all the 48 00:03:57.520 --> 00:04:00.360 better. Absolutely, I'm an advocate of killing as many birds as possible. 49 00:04:01.960 --> 00:04:04.599 But you know, it's funny. Fishing is kind of the gateway drug to 50 00:04:04.639 --> 00:04:08.159 big footing in a lot of ways, not only because a lot of fishermen 51 00:04:08.240 --> 00:04:12.000 trout fishermen specifically, or salmon and fishing. You know, it gets you 52 00:04:12.080 --> 00:04:14.680 out in that right kind of habitat, walk in the streams, and you 53 00:04:14.719 --> 00:04:18.759 know, these people stumble across footprints occasionally, these people stumble upon some unseen 54 00:04:18.959 --> 00:04:23.680 entity tossing rocks into the river in front of them and scaring their fish away 55 00:04:23.720 --> 00:04:26.879 and all that sort of stuff. And even for me growing up in southern 56 00:04:26.959 --> 00:04:30.800 California, down in Long Beach, California, I worked in fishing tackle stores 57 00:04:30.480 --> 00:04:33.120 most of my life until I became a teacher, you know, so that's 58 00:04:33.199 --> 00:04:36.839 basically from sixteen to about twenty six years of age, I was working in 59 00:04:36.920 --> 00:04:42.240 fishing tackle stores. And it struck me a few years after I started bigfooting 60 00:04:42.600 --> 00:04:46.680 how similar the two things were and my reasons for doing both, because at 61 00:04:46.680 --> 00:04:49.560 the end of the day, I mean, I do like eating fish, 62 00:04:49.600 --> 00:04:56.000 don't get me wrong, but that's not the primary driving force behind my addiction 63 00:04:56.199 --> 00:04:59.600 to fishing, or my previous addiction to fishing. I've kind of kicked that 64 00:04:59.680 --> 00:05:01.240 habit a little bit. I do love it, but I can't call myself 65 00:05:01.279 --> 00:05:06.160 addicted anymore like I certainly could at one time. But for me, even 66 00:05:06.199 --> 00:05:13.480 a saltwater fishermen, I really liked the idea of seeing something that is usually 67 00:05:13.600 --> 00:05:17.639 hidden, because fish, in my for my dollar, are the most beautiful, 68 00:05:18.040 --> 00:05:21.680 you know, if I guess family of animals, you know this type 69 00:05:21.680 --> 00:05:26.519 of animal in general, fish are just amazing and beautiful, and they have 70 00:05:26.639 --> 00:05:31.040 iridescent colors that can't be seen anywhere else really, and their their their habits 71 00:05:31.079 --> 00:05:36.759 are unseen. And I kind of see a lot of this similar fascination with 72 00:05:36.879 --> 00:05:41.319 bigfoot because I I'd like to see them, I'd like to learn about them. 73 00:05:41.519 --> 00:05:45.639 And you know, even even the methodology of getting these things, you 74 00:05:45.680 --> 00:05:47.519 know, like in a boat, you put out some chum and then you'd 75 00:05:47.600 --> 00:05:51.439 make casts, right like if you're fishing tunas or something by CLT. Patty, 76 00:05:51.639 --> 00:05:55.600 So you put out some chum in the water which attracts the fish, 77 00:05:55.800 --> 00:05:58.720 and then you cast. And I noticed the same sort of thing happening in 78 00:05:58.839 --> 00:06:02.480 my night investigations with Sasquatch. We make some noises at vocalize or knox or 79 00:06:02.519 --> 00:06:04.720 something like that, which is kind of like the chum, and then we 80 00:06:04.839 --> 00:06:08.759 make casts, which is basically doing night walks, going out and coming back 81 00:06:08.800 --> 00:06:12.920 to camp eventually, very very similar approach in a lot of ways. So 82 00:06:12.959 --> 00:06:16.920 it's kind of funny that fishing brought you to the same weird hobby that all 83 00:06:16.959 --> 00:06:23.800 of us share here. Yeah, And in hindsight, I didn't realize this 84 00:06:24.439 --> 00:06:29.000 until I started getting into Bigfoot. But for a while I lived in Albuquerque, 85 00:06:29.079 --> 00:06:31.639 New Mexico, and we'd go fishing up in the Hamis Springs Mountain, 86 00:06:32.240 --> 00:06:36.800 and I had one of those experiences where I'd have about a mile or two 87 00:06:36.920 --> 00:06:43.000 walk back into this canyon and then this cascading stream, and I'd see some 88 00:06:43.279 --> 00:06:47.800 fish in this deep hole, and I'd sneak up on them and I'd get 89 00:06:47.920 --> 00:06:51.959 one cast in, and no sooner i got one cast in, a big 90 00:06:53.160 --> 00:06:58.040 stone came splashing down in the middle of this hole, and I'd look around, 91 00:06:58.399 --> 00:07:01.720 you know, the stream wasn't about but about five feet wide, couldn't 92 00:07:01.759 --> 00:07:08.879 see anybody. I'd climb the rocks down to the next cascading pool and I'd 93 00:07:08.959 --> 00:07:13.720 get about one cast in again blush, another big rock would be thrown in 94 00:07:13.879 --> 00:07:18.519 and that hole would be destroyed. And that happened to me repeatedly on this 95 00:07:18.759 --> 00:07:24.839 one stream, and I always thought it was just some jerk, you know, 96 00:07:25.439 --> 00:07:30.879 kind of following me, trying to destroy my fishing. But when I 97 00:07:30.959 --> 00:07:34.800 got back to the trailhead, there were never any cars when I arrived or 98 00:07:34.879 --> 00:07:40.040 when I left, and I never saw any other human beings. So I've 99 00:07:40.079 --> 00:07:43.959 begun to wonder if that wasn't a bigfoot encounter. Did you know they were 100 00:07:44.040 --> 00:07:47.160 there? Did you know that they have in the Arizona Mountains. You know, 101 00:07:47.439 --> 00:07:55.839 it doesn't surprise me that they're in the Arizona Mountains the New Mexico Mountains, 102 00:07:56.079 --> 00:08:00.199 not at all, because you know there are very squatchy areas there. 103 00:08:01.160 --> 00:08:03.879 At the time when it happened to mean, no, I was at that 104 00:08:05.079 --> 00:08:09.120 point, I had no Bigfoot never crossed my mind when that was happening. 105 00:08:09.920 --> 00:08:13.560 Now you have a PhD in psychology, Am I correct in that? Yeah? 106 00:08:15.040 --> 00:08:20.639 I got a PhD in counseling psychology, and my specialties were in neuropsychology 107 00:08:20.800 --> 00:08:28.480 and pain psychology. So I did a lot of psychological assessments, helping neurologists 108 00:08:28.560 --> 00:08:35.480 differentiate between the different kinds of dementia, assessing brain damage from traumatic brain injury, 109 00:08:37.039 --> 00:08:41.159 and then working with the patient and the family on dealing with the adjustment 110 00:08:41.240 --> 00:08:48.519 of a brain injured person in the household in any PTSD or trauma associated with 111 00:08:48.639 --> 00:08:54.840 the accident. Now, how does your studies, how did your professional expertise 112 00:08:54.360 --> 00:09:03.000 translate into Bigfoot research? So when I started doing expeditions, I realized that 113 00:09:03.679 --> 00:09:09.799 in Lori's group and in Charlie's group, they're doing a lot of scientific using 114 00:09:09.120 --> 00:09:16.000 a lot of scientific principles in terms of being systematic and recording notes and making 115 00:09:16.120 --> 00:09:22.879 sure we're not stepping on each other with provocations and all that. But I 116 00:09:24.039 --> 00:09:31.120 also also saw areas where things the complete science wasn't being done. And so 117 00:09:31.519 --> 00:09:37.080 you know, in psychology, although some people consider us a pseudoscience, but 118 00:09:37.360 --> 00:09:45.679 especially in neuropsychology, for example, we use tests different kinds of instruments to 119 00:09:45.879 --> 00:09:52.639 determine things like emotions and IQ. And if you think about psychology and you 120 00:09:52.759 --> 00:09:58.320 think about emotions and IQ, it's almost a perfect fit for Bigfoot. Because 121 00:10:00.279 --> 00:10:07.440 we can't directly touch somebody's intelligence. We can observe that their work product and 122 00:10:07.519 --> 00:10:13.080 said, boy, you know that was done by a genius. But that's 123 00:10:13.519 --> 00:10:22.639 the behavioral phenomena or the behavioral manifestation of that intelligence. It's not the intelligence, 124 00:10:22.759 --> 00:10:28.759 the raw intelligence itself. Even with EEGs, we can't capture that raw 125 00:10:28.919 --> 00:10:35.639 intelligence. We can only measure the phenomena or the behavior associated with it. 126 00:10:35.240 --> 00:10:41.480 Similarly, emotions, I mean, because we all experience emotions, it's easy 127 00:10:41.559 --> 00:10:48.399 to forget that we can't feel another person's emotions. Again, we can hear 128 00:10:48.559 --> 00:10:52.440 them, we can see them, we can see the pain on people's faces. 129 00:10:54.080 --> 00:11:01.639 But again, what we're observing there is we're observing the behavioral and emotional 130 00:11:01.840 --> 00:11:09.000 manifestations of an emotion, not the raw emotion or actual emotion itself. So 131 00:11:09.879 --> 00:11:16.799 subjects like intelligence and emotions, they're kind of a little bit of an enigma 132 00:11:16.960 --> 00:11:22.159 because they can't be directly touched or seen. And it occurred to me that 133 00:11:22.360 --> 00:11:28.320 that's kind of where we're at with Bigfoot. We've gotten really good at being 134 00:11:28.399 --> 00:11:37.120 able to see and capture their phenomena, which is the behavioral manifestation of Bigfoot, 135 00:11:37.200 --> 00:11:45.840 the footprints, the vocalizations there, you know, tree breaks, I'm 136 00:11:45.840 --> 00:11:50.960 sure your listeners are familiar with the variety of signs of bigfoot that are out 137 00:11:50.039 --> 00:11:58.559 there, but we're having a hard time direct directly capturing and measuring bigfoot, 138 00:11:58.200 --> 00:12:05.919 and so I think psychologic science gives this a way to get some numbers and 139 00:12:05.080 --> 00:12:11.600 actually do some experiments and statistical analysis on these phenomena, so that we can 140 00:12:13.200 --> 00:12:20.840 move from just qualitative observations and we can move into the area of doing quantitative 141 00:12:20.919 --> 00:12:30.639 analysis on experiments with the phenomena and capture bigfoot statistically and experimentally in that fashion. 142 00:12:31.480 --> 00:12:35.679 I know that's a mouthful, but oh no, I smell what you're 143 00:12:35.679 --> 00:12:37.559 stepping in, man, I get it. Yeah, it makes a lot 144 00:12:37.600 --> 00:12:39.159 of sense. We need to be I think as a community, the big 145 00:12:39.279 --> 00:12:43.279 community really does need to step up because I don't see the science being done. 146 00:12:43.279 --> 00:12:48.200 I see little bits of the scientific process being done, but a lot 147 00:12:48.240 --> 00:12:52.200 of the science happens after you gather the data. So talking to a witness 148 00:12:52.320 --> 00:12:54.639 is one thing, but then what do you do with it. It's not 149 00:12:54.840 --> 00:12:58.440 research until something's done with the data. It's just a bunch of gobblegook, 150 00:12:58.440 --> 00:13:03.000 a bunch of numbers, a bunch of data, essentially, and it's piecing 151 00:13:03.399 --> 00:13:07.799 through that and making sense out of it and looking for patterns that I think 152 00:13:07.080 --> 00:13:13.679 is the real research part of it. And you're suggesting that since sasquatches are 153 00:13:15.200 --> 00:13:18.759 reluctant to be directly observed, and we can use some of these other tests 154 00:13:18.799 --> 00:13:24.639 that psychologists have brought up to maybe push the ball a little bit further down 155 00:13:24.679 --> 00:13:28.480 the court to that extent, what do you suggest, like what would be 156 00:13:28.519 --> 00:13:33.559 a very very simple example that anybody can do. Who's listening to this that 157 00:13:33.600 --> 00:13:37.639 is kind of along the lines of what you're suggesting. Just by way of 158 00:13:37.720 --> 00:13:45.200 clarification, I'm not suggesting using existing psychological tests, but I would put it 159 00:13:45.360 --> 00:13:50.440 to you that every time you go out into the woods and you do a 160 00:13:50.559 --> 00:13:56.200 provocation a tree knock and effect, what you've just done is you've created a 161 00:13:56.399 --> 00:14:01.720 test to see if you're going to get a response back to that tree knock, 162 00:14:03.480 --> 00:14:07.399 and what kind of response are you going to get? And so I 163 00:14:07.559 --> 00:14:11.759 have this in my book and I covered this in my podcast. You know, 164 00:14:11.960 --> 00:14:20.080 a simple tree knock experiment and comparing say, tree knocks to stone clacks. 165 00:14:20.639 --> 00:14:26.080 So you go into the woods, get yourself settled. If you can 166 00:14:28.080 --> 00:14:33.679 use some time for a baseline just acting naturally and normally, so that you're 167 00:14:33.759 --> 00:14:39.519 doing what you normally do and you see if you're getting any any sign or 168 00:14:39.679 --> 00:14:46.600 responses just doing that. But once you've got that baseline study settled, make 169 00:14:46.639 --> 00:14:52.720 a tree knock noise and start timing that tree knock and set a time limit 170 00:14:52.840 --> 00:14:56.840 on it. If we don't get a tree knock back in or any kind 171 00:14:56.840 --> 00:15:01.960 of response back in ten minutes, move on to another provocation. So do 172 00:15:03.120 --> 00:15:07.919 your tree knock and then wait if you if you get a tree knock back 173 00:15:09.039 --> 00:15:13.240 or some kind of response back, record that the time it took from the 174 00:15:13.360 --> 00:15:18.840 time you made the tree knock until you got the response, what the response 175 00:15:18.120 --> 00:15:24.200 is. If you didn't get a response, you've got to record that as 176 00:15:24.279 --> 00:15:28.720 well. You can't just record the successes. You got to record the failures. 177 00:15:28.320 --> 00:15:33.559 But then after if you get nothing in that ten minutes, then do 178 00:15:33.679 --> 00:15:39.080 a stone clack again. Time from the second you start did the stone clack, 179 00:15:39.200 --> 00:15:43.039 start timing and see if you get a response. Let's say you get 180 00:15:43.080 --> 00:15:50.360 a response from the from the clacking of the stones, but you don't get 181 00:15:50.399 --> 00:15:56.399 a response from the tree knock, So you record your response for the clacking 182 00:15:56.480 --> 00:16:00.360 of the stones, and that does it. You don't get any any other 183 00:16:00.480 --> 00:16:03.759 activity for the rest, so you move on to another spot. But you 184 00:16:03.919 --> 00:16:11.759 don't know if the response you got to the stone clack was a delayed response 185 00:16:11.919 --> 00:16:18.000 to the tree knock or was it because of the was it because of the 186 00:16:18.120 --> 00:16:22.080 stone clack. So this time, in this place, you do your stone 187 00:16:22.240 --> 00:16:27.960 clack first. This is called a counterbalance design. You do your stone clack 188 00:16:29.200 --> 00:16:34.720 first, make your recording, and then the tree knock second, and then 189 00:16:34.759 --> 00:16:41.679 another stone clack and another tree knock, So you're alternating the order of the 190 00:16:41.840 --> 00:16:48.600 provocations, and you're recording all this data, all the results or lack of 191 00:16:48.799 --> 00:16:55.039 results, and then that gets reduced down to ones and zeros. Your two 192 00:16:55.120 --> 00:17:00.440 independent variables are the stone clack and the tree knock, and you're doing them 193 00:17:00.519 --> 00:17:07.480 in a counterbalanced order to allow to control for what comes first and what comes 194 00:17:07.680 --> 00:17:12.359 last. Because in humans, we either respond to the first things we hear 195 00:17:12.440 --> 00:17:17.519 or see, or we'd better remember the last things we hear or see, 196 00:17:18.039 --> 00:17:22.680 So there are order effects in our own cognition, and so you try to 197 00:17:22.799 --> 00:17:30.000 control for those in that experiment by alternating which stimuli, which provocation comes first. 198 00:17:32.240 --> 00:17:36.359 Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and beyond with Cliff and Bobo will be right 199 00:17:36.440 --> 00:17:47.000 back after these messages. Cliff, I can't tell you how good it makes 200 00:17:47.079 --> 00:17:52.880 me feel to hear you say your comment about very little research, scientific research 201 00:17:52.039 --> 00:17:59.160 is being done, because boy I hammered on that so much on my show. 202 00:18:00.039 --> 00:18:03.799 Because the next step, as you said, once you get that raw 203 00:18:03.960 --> 00:18:10.279 data, once you record the number of results you got to tree knox and 204 00:18:10.440 --> 00:18:14.960 what kind compared to a number of results you got to stone clacks and what 205 00:18:15.240 --> 00:18:21.559 kind, you can then compare those two results to see if you got more 206 00:18:22.119 --> 00:18:29.200 responses to tree knocks or you've got more responses to stone clacks. But we 207 00:18:29.319 --> 00:18:33.240 can already do that, but you can eyeball, well we got we only 208 00:18:33.279 --> 00:18:38.759 got fifteen responses to tree knocks, but we got twenty three responses to stone 209 00:18:38.799 --> 00:18:45.559 clacks. But you don't know if that's what's called a significant difference. You 210 00:18:45.759 --> 00:18:51.799 don't know if that is in fact by significant difference, we're talking about statistically 211 00:18:51.920 --> 00:18:59.319 significant difference that rules out random occurrence and chance influencing those results. And so 212 00:18:59.480 --> 00:19:03.519 I think we're we fall down as a community is we don't know how to 213 00:19:03.640 --> 00:19:07.359 do the experimental design, and even more importantly, we don't know how to 214 00:19:07.480 --> 00:19:15.559 do the statistical analysis as a community. And it's that statistical analysis and experimental 215 00:19:15.680 --> 00:19:22.200 design that brings the science into psychological science. So not only can we say, 216 00:19:23.039 --> 00:19:29.160 yeah, twenty three is more than fifteen, but twenty three knocks is 217 00:19:29.319 --> 00:19:34.640 significantly more than you would expect given that you've got our twenty three stone clack 218 00:19:34.880 --> 00:19:42.319 responses. Is significantly more than you would expect given fifteen three knocks. Is 219 00:19:42.400 --> 00:19:48.279 this making sense, guys? Yeah? I think so. Now now as 220 00:19:48.319 --> 00:19:49.519 you're speaking, my wheels are turning, of course, you know, because 221 00:19:49.519 --> 00:19:53.880 I'm always looking for ways to better up my game, and I think psychology 222 00:19:55.279 --> 00:20:00.960 would be the perfect science to consider this side of things that that is coming 223 00:20:00.960 --> 00:20:07.960 into my head here, How does one account for in this in these sorts 224 00:20:07.960 --> 00:20:10.559 of experiments, in the simple experiment that you just laid out, how does 225 00:20:10.599 --> 00:20:15.039 one account for maybe unknown variables, like, for example, the two that 226 00:20:15.119 --> 00:20:18.960 came into my mind pretty quickly were, how do you know there's a sasquatch 227 00:20:18.000 --> 00:20:22.880 with an earshot to even reply? And also how does one account for the 228 00:20:23.079 --> 00:20:29.079 mood of the sasquatch at the time, like maybe he's not being social or 229 00:20:29.160 --> 00:20:33.640 maybe the sasquatch is observing you, either audibly or visibly, probably audibly, 230 00:20:33.680 --> 00:20:37.119 I'm guessing, and they, oh, that not came from those people, 231 00:20:37.160 --> 00:20:40.160 are I'm not going to answer that, They're not going to fool me. 232 00:20:40.720 --> 00:20:45.119 How does one account for those sorts of variables in the simple experiment like this 233 00:20:45.319 --> 00:20:51.359 or does that just make the experiment not simple any longer. Well, that's 234 00:20:51.400 --> 00:20:56.759 a very good question to your first point. You know, obviously, as 235 00:20:56.880 --> 00:21:03.839 people who have been out in the field and had I myself have not had 236 00:21:03.880 --> 00:21:08.240 a Class A encounter, but I had a couple butt puckering Class B encounters 237 00:21:08.359 --> 00:21:12.920 that left no doubt in my mind that we're dealing with something out there. 238 00:21:14.519 --> 00:21:18.519 But you know, over the years of doing expeditions, you become familiar not 239 00:21:18.680 --> 00:21:26.160 only with specific areas where they live, specific habituation areas, but I feel 240 00:21:26.200 --> 00:21:30.400 like I've also learned, you know, what makes a place squatchy, what 241 00:21:30.839 --> 00:21:36.599 makes a camping area, or what makes a particular location squatchy. So you 242 00:21:36.720 --> 00:21:41.640 know, I think you're starting in a habituation area for starters, where you 243 00:21:41.880 --> 00:21:47.640 know they live. I'm not sure how to account for the mood, except 244 00:21:47.960 --> 00:21:52.480 to say that if you really want to do this experiment right, you need 245 00:21:52.599 --> 00:21:57.319 to do it at a variety of locations throughout the United States and throughout the 246 00:21:57.480 --> 00:22:03.799 region. And in doing that, the you know, repeating that experiment throughout 247 00:22:03.920 --> 00:22:11.440 that area. But in doing that, that begins to randomize or randomly distribute 248 00:22:11.160 --> 00:22:15.440 the mood, if you will, of the bigfoots. Because you're repeating it 249 00:22:15.599 --> 00:22:22.759 so often in so many different locations, at least on a theoretical statistical level 250 00:22:22.799 --> 00:22:29.359 and experimental design level, that begins to randomize mood. It's kind of like 251 00:22:29.480 --> 00:22:34.039 it's being randomly assigned to different locations or times depending on the mood of the 252 00:22:34.200 --> 00:22:40.680 sasquatch. I just want to throw in here, I thought the other element 253 00:22:40.759 --> 00:22:44.480 you were going to speak to was human, because you know, one of 254 00:22:44.519 --> 00:22:51.599 the things that even when I've heard the only I've only heard one tree knock 255 00:22:51.759 --> 00:22:56.759 that was attributed to bigfoot. But even after you hear that, because you 256 00:22:56.880 --> 00:23:03.039 didn't see them making that tree knock, there's always you know, do we 257 00:23:03.240 --> 00:23:06.319 even know that it was a big foot making that tree knock? How do 258 00:23:06.480 --> 00:23:11.400 we know it wasn't a human making that tree knock? And in this experiment, 259 00:23:11.359 --> 00:23:18.440 the tree knock versus the stone clacking, you can account for or factor 260 00:23:18.559 --> 00:23:23.519 in, if you will, the influence of humans making those sounds, simply 261 00:23:23.680 --> 00:23:30.039 by setting up that same experiment in a in an area that is isolated from 262 00:23:30.160 --> 00:23:38.000 bigfoots but thurround it by humans. And you can repeat that same procedure in 263 00:23:38.200 --> 00:23:45.359 your human area as you did in your sasquatch area. And then you can 264 00:23:45.519 --> 00:23:51.920 compare the responses that the number of responses you got to stone clackes and tree 265 00:23:52.000 --> 00:23:57.279 knocks in the human area compared to the ones in the in the Sasquatch area. 266 00:23:57.799 --> 00:24:04.839 And let that tell you and inform you as to is that in fact 267 00:24:06.119 --> 00:24:15.680 sasquatch phenomena. So I think psychology gives us away through experimental design to factor 268 00:24:15.759 --> 00:24:22.720 out that human influence in a variety of situations or phenomena that we experience. 269 00:24:23.559 --> 00:24:29.880 Now, what about the idea, and I believe this to be true, 270 00:24:30.079 --> 00:24:34.640 that that Sasquatches perhaps have some level of local culture. And by by what 271 00:24:34.720 --> 00:24:37.640 I what I mean by that is something as simple as this. The ones 272 00:24:37.680 --> 00:24:41.799 out there at bumping you know it by bumping that they yell a lot, 273 00:24:41.880 --> 00:24:45.160 right, So those ones up there tend to yell a lot. The ones 274 00:24:45.200 --> 00:24:48.880 at Bluff Creek almost never yell. Really, I spent a lot of time 275 00:24:48.960 --> 00:24:52.839 in Bluff Bobo, even more so than me. I've heard a lot of 276 00:24:52.880 --> 00:24:56.640 knocks there, direct responses whatever I'm doing. But I think in all that 277 00:24:56.839 --> 00:25:00.480 time I've I've heard less than a half dozen vocalizations. And we're talking, 278 00:25:00.559 --> 00:25:03.200 you know, twenty thirty years of going there on and off, you know, 279 00:25:03.319 --> 00:25:06.880 sometimes for two weeks at a time or more. So, I mean, 280 00:25:06.960 --> 00:25:08.559 I attribute those things, and of course this is an assumption. I 281 00:25:08.680 --> 00:25:12.799 realize that to some sort of cultural difference, just like I think that another 282 00:25:12.920 --> 00:25:18.119 cultural difference would be that the Sasquatches on the ridges near my home in my 283 00:25:18.240 --> 00:25:23.000 particular area don't tend to vocalize and tend to be quite slinky, you know, 284 00:25:23.119 --> 00:25:26.519 very ninja like, because they're living closer to town, you know, 285 00:25:26.599 --> 00:25:32.279 whereas the ones further out in the wilderness areas have less to lose by making 286 00:25:32.319 --> 00:25:34.079 noise or that sort of stuff. I think I believe, at least in 287 00:25:34.359 --> 00:25:40.480 that that cultural difference might exist, And of course that in itself deserves an 288 00:25:40.519 --> 00:25:45.640 experiment or two, or five or twenty. But being a science in a 289 00:25:45.680 --> 00:25:53.119 scientists in psychology, what sort of precautions or elements can you build into an 290 00:25:53.160 --> 00:25:59.519 experiment to account for those or or is that just something that might arise out 291 00:25:59.559 --> 00:26:03.599 of the day later and then have to be dealt with. I think you've 292 00:26:03.680 --> 00:26:10.519 kind of answered your own question in that you know you're gonna do it location 293 00:26:10.759 --> 00:26:17.000 by location, region of the country by region of the country, and in 294 00:26:17.240 --> 00:26:23.359 doing so, I think there you may be able to find support for that 295 00:26:23.720 --> 00:26:29.799 hypothesis. If you you know, if if in the in the south, 296 00:26:30.519 --> 00:26:33.240 you know, you get more tree knocks, then you do stone claques. 297 00:26:33.640 --> 00:26:38.000 And I'm not saying this would be the case, but in the Northwest you 298 00:26:38.200 --> 00:26:42.720 get more stone claques, and you see the pattern. You see a pattern 299 00:26:44.240 --> 00:26:49.119 consistently of you know, south southeast three noox tree, Noox tree, Knox, 300 00:26:49.599 --> 00:26:56.960 but you're seeing stone clack stone clack stone claes or vocalizations, vocalization vocalizations 301 00:26:57.160 --> 00:27:03.759 in the north north West. I think that then begins to give you information 302 00:27:04.039 --> 00:27:14.839 about the different ways that those sasquatches in that region respond. And once you 303 00:27:14.960 --> 00:27:19.559 can narrow it down to a region, then you begin to study that region 304 00:27:19.839 --> 00:27:25.480 closer, and then I think you can get to the level that you're looking 305 00:27:25.599 --> 00:27:30.200 to get in terms of the culture or the you know, the traditions within 306 00:27:30.359 --> 00:27:34.160 the tribe or whatever the case may be. So I think it would arise 307 00:27:34.359 --> 00:27:37.480 from the data. Yeah. Yeah, So I did answer my own which 308 00:27:37.519 --> 00:27:41.440 I very often answer my own question if i'd think and talk out loud long 309 00:27:41.559 --> 00:27:48.079 enough. So yeah, yeah, awesome. Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and 310 00:27:48.240 --> 00:27:57.119 Beyond with Cliff and Bobo. Will be right back after these messages. Now, 311 00:27:57.400 --> 00:28:00.400 John, you mentioned a couple and I'm going to quote you here but 312 00:28:00.680 --> 00:28:04.200 puckering class bs. Yes, well, we got to hear about those, 313 00:28:04.240 --> 00:28:10.440 which you mind sharing those with this please. I've got two, the first 314 00:28:10.559 --> 00:28:15.640 one, and again I've signed non disclosure agreements, so I can't give you 315 00:28:15.759 --> 00:28:22.160 this specific location beyond saying this was a location in Tennessee. But I was 316 00:28:22.279 --> 00:28:27.480 part of a group of sixteen. The whole expedition. This was a Lori 317 00:28:27.599 --> 00:28:34.279 Waite expedition. The whole expedition had probably about forty people in it. But 318 00:28:36.240 --> 00:28:40.359 as you know, no doubt, we break up into smaller groups of three 319 00:28:40.440 --> 00:28:45.880 to five. But we were going to hike midway up this mountain to this 320 00:28:45.119 --> 00:28:49.720 old cabin, and then we were going to send one group before one direction, 321 00:28:51.279 --> 00:28:57.839 another group before another direction, another group of four I think down the 322 00:28:57.960 --> 00:29:03.839 mountain and then one group stay at this cabin. So I got into the 323 00:29:03.920 --> 00:29:10.000 group before who was supposed to climb up this deer path to the fire road 324 00:29:10.079 --> 00:29:12.759 that's on top of the mountain, or as high as we could go on 325 00:29:12.880 --> 00:29:18.160 the ridge on a fire road. And we got out there. We were 326 00:29:18.240 --> 00:29:23.359 supposed to head one direction and another group was going to head the opposite direction 327 00:29:23.519 --> 00:29:26.480 on this fire road, and we were going to kind of meet in the 328 00:29:26.559 --> 00:29:33.039 middle. Was the plan. Unfortunately, we took a wrong turn. We 329 00:29:33.160 --> 00:29:37.319 took a left and started heading up when we were supposed to take a right. 330 00:29:37.240 --> 00:29:41.960 But we were headed up there a guy by the name of George Wrigley, 331 00:29:41.519 --> 00:29:45.759 who is one of my mentors, I consider one of my mentors. 332 00:29:45.440 --> 00:29:52.160 And we're walking up and it had rained hard the previous night, and it 333 00:29:52.480 --> 00:29:59.200 was windy this night, but otherwise it was that it was dead silent. 334 00:29:59.400 --> 00:30:04.759 All you could here was the leaves rustling in the trees and the water running 335 00:30:04.880 --> 00:30:08.000 off the mountain. And I said, George, you know, you see 336 00:30:08.119 --> 00:30:12.240 you told me multiple times that when a bigfoot's in the area, all the 337 00:30:12.359 --> 00:30:17.759 other all the other creatures kind of shut down and it gets real quiet. 338 00:30:18.440 --> 00:30:22.279 Is this the kind of quiet you're talking about, because I had never experienced 339 00:30:22.319 --> 00:30:26.079 this quiet before. And he said, well, he said, usually when 340 00:30:26.160 --> 00:30:30.559 you get this kind of quiet and there's a bigfoot in the area, you 341 00:30:30.680 --> 00:30:33.119 get you know, the hair standing up on your head, or you're feeling 342 00:30:33.200 --> 00:30:37.160 you're being watched, or that spidey sense, I think is what a lot 343 00:30:37.240 --> 00:30:41.559 of people call it. And none of us were getting that. So no, 344 00:30:41.960 --> 00:30:45.000 John, I don't think this is it. Long story short. We 345 00:30:45.160 --> 00:30:51.440 walked about miles three miles up this road. We didn't see any activity of 346 00:30:51.599 --> 00:30:56.359 wildlife. But we finally got in touch with the people we thought we were 347 00:30:56.480 --> 00:31:02.119 going to meet, and they had seen pigs rutting on the fire road. 348 00:31:02.720 --> 00:31:07.079 They had seen they had spooked some turkeys, both broosting in the trees and 349 00:31:07.240 --> 00:31:12.799 from the ground, and they had saw all kinds of deer. And we 350 00:31:12.960 --> 00:31:21.160 didn't see any wildlife, nor did we hear any creature sounds creatures as in 351 00:31:21.799 --> 00:31:26.359 kitmunks or squirrels, you know, no sound in the forest whatsoever. So 352 00:31:26.480 --> 00:31:30.799 we start walking back, and on these walks a lot of the members had 353 00:31:30.039 --> 00:31:34.960 interest in hypnosis, and so we were talking about hypnosis and how that could 354 00:31:36.119 --> 00:31:45.160 influence people's perceptions of bigfoot and George I said something, and George stopped on 355 00:31:45.440 --> 00:31:51.599 his heel and we were walking single file. I was about five feet behind 356 00:31:51.720 --> 00:31:57.240 him. Five feet behind me was Brave Heart. I called him Brave Heart 357 00:31:57.359 --> 00:32:06.279 from this incident and then Mark Oglebee and God, I can't believe I'm walking 358 00:32:06.359 --> 00:32:13.000 on Braveheart's actual name. It'll come to me. So George stops, pivots 359 00:32:13.079 --> 00:32:17.119 on his foot to walk the five feet to ask me a question. And 360 00:32:17.279 --> 00:32:22.079 in the time it took him to do that, he got the letter J 361 00:32:22.359 --> 00:32:25.480 he said. And when he got the jay out, we had a tree 362 00:32:27.680 --> 00:32:32.319 push over versus fall. Since we didn't see it, but it was explosive. 363 00:32:32.440 --> 00:32:37.039 It sounded like a bomb went off right on top of us. And 364 00:32:37.200 --> 00:32:44.279 then immediately after that it sounded us to god, guys, it sounded like 365 00:32:44.400 --> 00:32:49.720 a landslide was coming down on top of us. It sounded like logs and 366 00:32:50.039 --> 00:32:55.200 rocks were tumbling from the peak above us down towards us. And you know, 367 00:32:55.759 --> 00:33:01.920 when things are running tumbling downhill real fast, oftentimes they'll hit a rock 368 00:33:02.000 --> 00:33:07.039 and they'll become airborne and there'll be a silence, and then you can hear 369 00:33:07.119 --> 00:33:10.279 him hit the ground again. And continue tumbling. That's what we were hearing, 370 00:33:10.839 --> 00:33:17.359 and it seemed to surround us, and so George and I we we 371 00:33:17.480 --> 00:33:22.839 scattered like cockroaches to try and get clear of the landslide. We've got it 372 00:33:22.960 --> 00:33:29.160 recorded. It lasted fourteen seconds. Mark Ogilby, who was in the back, 373 00:33:29.319 --> 00:33:35.440 he scattered like a cockroach. And Braveheart. I had his name, 374 00:33:35.519 --> 00:33:38.319 and I lost it again. Dan Keggley is who I call brave Heart. 375 00:33:38.759 --> 00:33:45.960 Dank Keggley. He chose the fight response. He pivoted. He pivoted on 376 00:33:45.160 --> 00:33:51.400 his heel and looked up the mountain and went to pull out his cave bar 377 00:33:51.559 --> 00:33:57.240 knife, and he was ready to take on whatever was coming down at us. 378 00:33:58.079 --> 00:34:06.039 But nothing ever hit the no rocks, no trees, no logs, 379 00:34:06.200 --> 00:34:10.280 no small stones. But what did hit us, and what settled over us 380 00:34:12.280 --> 00:34:16.239 was a cloud of a loam. If you've ever had if you've ever worked 381 00:34:16.280 --> 00:34:22.280 with loam soil, it has that distinct almost a manure smell, but it's 382 00:34:22.400 --> 00:34:28.320 not a manure smell. Looking up the mountain, we could see just that 383 00:34:28.559 --> 00:34:32.239 the particles of loam coming down on top of us. I smelled it before 384 00:34:32.320 --> 00:34:37.079 I saw it. So we spent thirty forty five minutes trying to debunk that. 385 00:34:38.280 --> 00:34:45.559 Couldn't find anything to explain it. So we put two sticks in an 386 00:34:45.960 --> 00:34:52.400 x standing vertically where this happened, and we had a couple hundred yards hike 387 00:34:53.039 --> 00:34:58.440 to that deer trail that we took up to get to the fire road. 388 00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:05.360 We start well after that. Immediately after that happened, the folks from the 389 00:35:05.440 --> 00:35:08.480 cabin called down, called us and said, did you hear that tree three 390 00:35:08.599 --> 00:35:12.360 fall? Hell? Yeah, you know, just about happened right on top 391 00:35:12.440 --> 00:35:15.960 of us. So we start walking back to that deer trail, and as 392 00:35:16.039 --> 00:35:22.519 we're walking back to the deer trail, the guys from the cabin again call 393 00:35:22.679 --> 00:35:25.920 us. They say, are you guys on the deer trail or are you 394 00:35:27.039 --> 00:35:30.559 guys on the forest road? We're still on the fire We're still on the 395 00:35:30.639 --> 00:35:36.280 forest road, the fire road. Okay, then for out. So we 396 00:35:36.440 --> 00:35:40.519 get to the deer trail and we're about midway down the deer trail and the 397 00:35:40.599 --> 00:35:45.559 guys from the cabin call us again and said, are you guys on the 398 00:35:45.639 --> 00:35:49.280 fire road or are you guys on the deer trail? Why do you keep 399 00:35:49.480 --> 00:35:53.920 calling us and asking this? Well, when you guys were on the forest 400 00:35:54.079 --> 00:36:00.559 road following behind you, we saw some red lights and now that you're on 401 00:36:00.679 --> 00:36:06.719 the deer trail, it looks like there's some red eye shine or red lights 402 00:36:06.880 --> 00:36:10.480 right behind you, and so of course we all pivoted up. We pivoted 403 00:36:12.199 --> 00:36:15.320 and looked up the deer trail up the mountain. We didn't see any red 404 00:36:15.440 --> 00:36:21.760 lights. So we got to the cabin, which was the Midway base camp, 405 00:36:22.719 --> 00:36:27.519 and we're sitting relaxing and all of a sudden, all of a sudden, 406 00:36:27.599 --> 00:36:31.920 somebody says, did you see that red light in the woods. No, 407 00:36:32.480 --> 00:36:37.280 we start looking and to make a long story short, over a period 408 00:36:37.320 --> 00:36:43.760 of about twenty five twenty to thirty minutes, we didn't keep track. We 409 00:36:44.239 --> 00:36:52.440 watched fifteen to twenty what we believe were infant Bigfoot doing that peeping thing where 410 00:36:52.480 --> 00:36:55.559 they'd peep out one side of the tree and you could see and I'm going 411 00:36:55.599 --> 00:37:00.760 to call it red eye glow rather than eyeshine, because is this there. 412 00:37:00.880 --> 00:37:05.440 It was an overcast night, there was no moon, there was no ambient 413 00:37:05.639 --> 00:37:12.119 light to shine on these eyes, So I think of this as eye glow. 414 00:37:12.679 --> 00:37:15.920 You're saying, fifty to twenty of them you said yes, and there's 415 00:37:15.960 --> 00:37:22.000 an explanation for that. So we watched these peepers for about twenty to twenty 416 00:37:22.119 --> 00:37:29.159 five minutes, and that many bobo and we were you know, it was 417 00:37:29.239 --> 00:37:32.760 amazing. So I was the oldest in the group, but the other guys, 418 00:37:32.840 --> 00:37:37.039 the other guys were in there, I think late thirties, early forties. 419 00:37:37.480 --> 00:37:42.119 We were determined to get back up there the next day. We didn't, 420 00:37:42.280 --> 00:37:45.880 but a young buck went up there. We told him to look for 421 00:37:45.039 --> 00:37:50.320 the X, and he looked for the X, found the X, and 422 00:37:50.440 --> 00:37:53.800 he found a full print. He didn't have a casting kit, never cast 423 00:37:53.880 --> 00:38:00.320 it. He runs back down to base camp and get somebody who's an expert 424 00:38:00.400 --> 00:38:07.639 in casting. They go back up to that print, full plasticle print. 425 00:38:07.800 --> 00:38:12.239 They cast it a print right near where we had put the X, right 426 00:38:12.440 --> 00:38:20.079 where we had what we thought was aligned landslide. And as they're waiting for 427 00:38:20.320 --> 00:38:27.519 the cast to cure, they decide to look down the downside of the fire 428 00:38:27.639 --> 00:38:30.599 road. We had been looking up from where the sounds were coming that night. 429 00:38:31.239 --> 00:38:37.360 We never looked the opposite side down on the fire road. And they 430 00:38:37.440 --> 00:38:40.960 look down the downside of the fire road, and I'll be darn if it 431 00:38:42.119 --> 00:38:47.920 didn't about eight to ten feet down it leveled off onto a plateau, pretty 432 00:38:49.039 --> 00:38:57.360 pretty long and wide plateau, and they say they counted about forty infant bigfoot 433 00:38:57.639 --> 00:39:04.199 prints on that plateau, eight feet below the roadbed. How big was How 434 00:39:04.239 --> 00:39:07.280 big was the cast? The one that you cast? A big one, 435 00:39:07.960 --> 00:39:13.519 it was seventeen and a half inches long and I think seven inches wide. 436 00:39:14.320 --> 00:39:19.719 How big were the small ones? Nobody cast those, okay, whether four 437 00:39:19.760 --> 00:39:23.239 inches or seven inches or I didn't see him myself, so I couldn't tell 438 00:39:23.280 --> 00:39:31.119 you. But they found another print, but it wasn't castable. Right on 439 00:39:31.360 --> 00:39:38.400 the edge of the down drop to that plateau and fifteen feet up the tree 440 00:39:38.519 --> 00:39:45.719 there there was a fresh bark tear. So we either experienced. In hindsight, 441 00:39:46.559 --> 00:39:52.239 I think what might have happened might have been And again no science here, 442 00:39:52.400 --> 00:39:58.000 this is just experience. But I think when we stopped, it was 443 00:39:58.199 --> 00:40:02.199 like we might have stopped right next to the nursery or the playground, and 444 00:40:02.559 --> 00:40:07.320 I think we were bluff charged. I don't think it was a landslide because 445 00:40:08.119 --> 00:40:15.199 the sound and the power of that that landslide coming down on top of us, 446 00:40:15.400 --> 00:40:19.239 it was loud, and if it was a lion slide. Something should 447 00:40:19.239 --> 00:40:24.159 have hit the ground, so I think in hindsight we experienced a bluff charge. 448 00:40:25.119 --> 00:40:30.519 And then when we got back down to that to that midway cabin, 449 00:40:30.280 --> 00:40:35.559 I think maybe, I don't know, maybe Mom and Dad took the infants 450 00:40:35.599 --> 00:40:40.719 to to spy on the bigfooters. So that was one of my butt puckering 451 00:40:42.079 --> 00:40:50.159 class being encounters. The butt puckering part when that landslide sound started. I 452 00:40:50.239 --> 00:40:52.840 love the guy pulling the knife to try to fend off the avalanche. Yeah, 453 00:40:53.760 --> 00:40:58.199 yeah, yeah, Tennessee, Tennessee's that's where we got the most tree 454 00:40:58.239 --> 00:41:00.440 shot outs of it. Where we went from this show every time me what 455 00:41:00.559 --> 00:41:05.199 he we got at least two or three Wow. Yeah. And I was 456 00:41:05.280 --> 00:41:09.039 back in a different location in Tennessee here a few months ago and heard some 457 00:41:09.199 --> 00:41:15.719 tree pushovers as well. Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and 458 00:41:15.800 --> 00:41:25.280 Bogo. We'll be right back after these messages. Do we have time for 459 00:41:25.760 --> 00:41:30.280 my other buckering experience? Yeah? I hit it, love to hear it. 460 00:41:31.119 --> 00:41:37.840 So this was early on in my second year of expeditions with Laurie. 461 00:41:38.639 --> 00:41:44.920 She's always kind enough and you know, just an incredible lady. Puts on 462 00:41:44.960 --> 00:41:49.039 an incredible expedition, as does Charlie Raymond. Just give both of those guys 463 00:41:49.119 --> 00:41:54.719 a plug. Just awesome. But she brings in, as does Charlie, 464 00:41:55.199 --> 00:42:02.079 she brings in guest speakers on most of her exped editions. And the guest 465 00:42:02.159 --> 00:42:10.039 speaker she brought it she brought in was Scott Carpenter. May he rest in 466 00:42:10.159 --> 00:42:16.800 peace. So you know, Scott, of course was talking about Niphelum and 467 00:42:16.920 --> 00:42:27.440 talking about his experiences with bigfoot and cloaking and things of that nature, and 468 00:42:28.000 --> 00:42:34.480 it was fascinating to me, but I still walked away, very skeptical of 469 00:42:35.519 --> 00:42:40.519 them cloaking or disappearing right in front of your eyes. So about a month 470 00:42:40.639 --> 00:42:49.079 later, fifty minutes from where I live in Rome, Georgia is a wildlife 471 00:42:49.159 --> 00:42:54.639 management area called John's Mountain Wildlife Management Area. So I thought, what the 472 00:42:54.760 --> 00:43:00.440 heck, I'm going to take myself in my little mini trailer and my dog 473 00:43:00.599 --> 00:43:04.800 and see if I can't find a spot that looks squatchy. So I was 474 00:43:04.840 --> 00:43:07.800 successful in finding a spot that looked squatchy. Got there in the daytime. 475 00:43:08.719 --> 00:43:14.039 It was it was such that it was right off the road, not deep 476 00:43:14.119 --> 00:43:19.920 in at all into the woods. I was probably thirty feet from the road 477 00:43:20.000 --> 00:43:24.079 where I set up my camp. But there were there were ridges on both 478 00:43:24.199 --> 00:43:30.320 sides of this campground, and the ridge if you're facing from the road in 479 00:43:30.559 --> 00:43:36.719 towards the campground, the ridge on the left had a creak running into the 480 00:43:36.880 --> 00:43:44.800 main river just across the street, and these ridges followed went went back probably 481 00:43:44.840 --> 00:43:50.639 a mile, and then probably two miles past that was this big untouched mountain. 482 00:43:52.199 --> 00:43:55.199 And so during the day, my dog and I looked for sign. 483 00:43:55.280 --> 00:44:00.199 We couldn't find any Prince couldn't find any evidence. So time to cook dinner. 484 00:44:00.840 --> 00:44:05.960 And just as we're finishing up dinner, my dog, it was a 485 00:44:06.039 --> 00:44:10.000 pit bull mix, was just I had him tied onto a rope, was 486 00:44:10.159 --> 00:44:17.039 just lounging on the ground, and all of a sudden, he sat up 487 00:44:17.440 --> 00:44:23.880 from laying down, sat on his hindquarters, stuck his nose straight up into 488 00:44:24.000 --> 00:44:30.960 the air to the sky, and sat there for three to five minutes, 489 00:44:31.199 --> 00:44:37.519 just like that, sniffing the air. And when his nose came down, 490 00:44:37.280 --> 00:44:45.039 he started snarling and growling and barking like he wanted to tear into something, 491 00:44:45.760 --> 00:44:51.000 just going off. And I had never seen this dog do this. I 492 00:44:51.119 --> 00:44:55.960 couldn't see anything it was dusk. At this point, I couldn't see anything 493 00:44:57.079 --> 00:45:01.000 in front of me. His nose, his nose, those was down and 494 00:45:01.239 --> 00:45:06.960 looking. It was like he was barking at something in front of us that 495 00:45:07.199 --> 00:45:12.159 he was sensing that I couldn't. So I finally got him calm down. 496 00:45:12.280 --> 00:45:15.960 I said, okay, Red, let let let's go check it out. 497 00:45:15.519 --> 00:45:22.159 Well, I went and got my headlamp and moved forward to towards the road. 498 00:45:22.800 --> 00:45:25.880 And he wouldn't come with me. He crawled under, he crawled under 499 00:45:25.920 --> 00:45:31.119 his trailer or trailer. He would not come forward with me. And I'm, 500 00:45:31.239 --> 00:45:38.840 you know, for the first time thinking about Scott's Scott's presentation about cloaking, 501 00:45:39.559 --> 00:45:44.800 it was like, geez, is my dog seeing or sensing something that's 502 00:45:44.880 --> 00:45:49.559 there that I can't see. So, even though I had my headlamp when 503 00:45:49.679 --> 00:45:53.159 I walked forward, I walked forward with my hands out in front of me 504 00:45:53.880 --> 00:45:59.599 for that Maybe they do cloak and I want to walk away into one with 505 00:45:59.760 --> 00:46:05.480 my So I walked forward with my hands out, didn't bump into anything, 506 00:46:05.679 --> 00:46:09.159 got to the road, looked up the road, walked up the road a 507 00:46:09.199 --> 00:46:13.360 little bit, walked down the road, walked back into the camp. So 508 00:46:13.440 --> 00:46:19.800 I didn't see a darn thing, so got read my put my rave pit 509 00:46:19.960 --> 00:46:23.800 bull out from underneath my trailer and sat down next to the fire, right 510 00:46:23.880 --> 00:46:30.119 where we were when he started barking. And we weren't sitting there but thirty 511 00:46:30.239 --> 00:46:37.840 seconds to a minute, and I started hearing this bush rattling to my at 512 00:46:37.960 --> 00:46:45.639 my two o'cloth and no sooner the bush started rattling. He and this bush 513 00:46:45.800 --> 00:46:51.840 was probably I was just there a couple of weekends ago, probably about twenty 514 00:46:51.920 --> 00:46:57.159 yards away from me. This bush starts rattling. My pit bull gets up 515 00:46:58.320 --> 00:47:01.840 orients on the bush, puts his nose up into the air again, but 516 00:47:02.039 --> 00:47:07.480 this time only holds it up for five seconds. And when he brings his 517 00:47:07.679 --> 00:47:13.639 nose down again, he starts into what's like an attack mode, but maybe 518 00:47:13.679 --> 00:47:16.599 it's a fear mode, because he wasn't moving forward, but he was growling 519 00:47:16.719 --> 00:47:22.920 and snarling and snapping at something in that bush, rattling that bush. And 520 00:47:22.079 --> 00:47:27.800 as this is going on for maybe fifteen twenty seconds, all of a sudden, 521 00:47:27.880 --> 00:47:39.199 I hear above his growling and snarling and snapping. I hear that's when 522 00:47:39.360 --> 00:47:47.840 mud butt buckered, and I stood up, and the dog's growling and snarling 523 00:47:47.920 --> 00:47:52.519 and snapping was going on, as was the growling coming from that bush. 524 00:47:53.760 --> 00:47:59.079 And I went out, got to my car. I had a smith and 525 00:47:59.119 --> 00:48:05.880 Western forty five military police handgun, got that out and for the first time 526 00:48:06.360 --> 00:48:14.960 ever, I chambered around and no sooner that clicking sound from chambering around in 527 00:48:15.079 --> 00:48:22.760 a pistol happened, it got silent. The growling, the growling stopped, 528 00:48:22.320 --> 00:48:29.079 My dog settled down, and everything just shut down, like a switch was 529 00:48:29.159 --> 00:48:32.599 thrown when I when I cocked that pistol. Yeah, it seems like a 530 00:48:34.000 --> 00:48:37.440 gun's cocking and like the first little zip of a zipper just shuts them down, 531 00:48:37.559 --> 00:48:40.719 like if you zip your sleeping bag or ten if you get on zip 532 00:48:40.800 --> 00:48:45.800 it, or if your chamber around or you know, hit the you know, 533 00:48:45.280 --> 00:48:50.360 hit the slide on a shotgun pump something like that. That just seems 534 00:48:50.519 --> 00:48:54.960 like just boom, just dead. And to clarify, I'm not I carry 535 00:48:55.039 --> 00:49:00.440 a gun for personal protection, not for bigfoot. My it is all about 536 00:49:00.519 --> 00:49:07.199 providing a pathway to scientific proof so we don't have to kill one. So 537 00:49:07.440 --> 00:49:12.920 I am of the no kill philosophy. But I wanted to clarify you that 538 00:49:13.079 --> 00:49:16.400 given that I talked about talking a gun. Yeah, well, now if 539 00:49:16.480 --> 00:49:22.920 that's the goal, can you paraphrase the pathway to discovery without a type specimen? 540 00:49:22.280 --> 00:49:25.039 And the second part of that question, I guess would be, don't 541 00:49:25.079 --> 00:49:30.159 you think that after discovery, if it can be done without a type specimen, 542 00:49:30.440 --> 00:49:34.039 they would go get another one. Anyway, I've thought about it the 543 00:49:34.079 --> 00:49:37.599 other way around a lot, because I don't think a body is going to 544 00:49:37.639 --> 00:49:42.679 suffice. I think we're going to need two or three bodies for verification. 545 00:49:43.639 --> 00:49:51.599 And on top of that, then we still don't have those phenomena necessarily scientifically 546 00:49:52.199 --> 00:49:55.320 tied to the Bigfoot, and so there's still more work to be done to 547 00:49:55.519 --> 00:50:00.360 scientifically, you know, link Bigfoot to all the these occurrences. Just because 548 00:50:00.440 --> 00:50:06.960 we've proven its Bigfoot, that Bigfoot exists, we haven't proven that Bigfoot is 549 00:50:07.079 --> 00:50:13.920 causing a lot of these phenomena. So the path for the past sixty years 550 00:50:14.519 --> 00:50:22.239 we've been doing empirical observation. And empirical observation is the first step in a 551 00:50:22.400 --> 00:50:31.920 significant scientific discovery. But usually what happens after you do step one in the 552 00:50:32.039 --> 00:50:38.360 scientific method, which is empirical observation, you move on to step two, 553 00:50:39.320 --> 00:50:46.840 which is developing a hypothesis based on that empirical observation, and then step three 554 00:50:47.280 --> 00:50:55.519 is designing an experiment to test that hypothesis based on that empirical observation. And 555 00:50:55.639 --> 00:51:01.880 then step foward is analyzing your data with statistics and you know, presenting it 556 00:51:02.039 --> 00:51:09.280 for pre review and beginning the cycle again, reiterating, reiterating the experiment if 557 00:51:09.360 --> 00:51:14.960 it comes out positive, other people doing if it comes out positive. But 558 00:51:15.079 --> 00:51:20.639 it seems to me that as a community, guys, we have gotten stuck 559 00:51:21.280 --> 00:51:28.440 in this runt of the observation. We're continuing to go out there, spend 560 00:51:28.559 --> 00:51:36.960 money on photographic equipment, flear, radar, lidar, and we're still trying 561 00:51:37.079 --> 00:51:43.280 to capture Bigfoot with a photograph or with a recording or through their phenomena. 562 00:51:44.000 --> 00:51:49.519 But we've got to we know what their phenomena are. We have all kinds 563 00:51:49.559 --> 00:51:52.480 of hypotheses, but in our field we call them theories. You know, 564 00:51:53.280 --> 00:51:58.280 it seems to me, as a community, in terms of the scientific method 565 00:51:58.920 --> 00:52:06.280 we skip. We've gone from observation to theory, and we skipped hypothesis testing, 566 00:52:07.679 --> 00:52:13.280 finding a hypothesis, and then theory testing before we call something a theory. 567 00:52:13.760 --> 00:52:20.280 We're going from our empirical observations to what we think Bigfoot is doing, 568 00:52:20.440 --> 00:52:27.079 and we begin to call that a theory. So the pathway to using psychologic 569 00:52:27.280 --> 00:52:36.159 science to prove Bigfoot scientifically is to use the entire scientific method, but using 570 00:52:36.519 --> 00:52:44.880 experimentation. So you go from your observation to your hypothesis. Your hypothesis is 571 00:52:45.079 --> 00:52:50.400 used to generate an experiment, and in that experiment you try to control for 572 00:52:51.119 --> 00:52:55.800 human influence, the influences of other possible creatures that could be producing the same 573 00:52:55.920 --> 00:53:06.239 phenomena. You include ConTroll variables in your experiment, and and that's where then 574 00:53:07.119 --> 00:53:12.960 photography is going to come in and become scientific when it's being used within that 575 00:53:13.239 --> 00:53:20.480 context of an experiment and providing convergent validity. Think about tag X. If 576 00:53:20.559 --> 00:53:29.519 they had set up either a recorder or if they had set up a camera 577 00:53:30.639 --> 00:53:37.760 where next to that tag and a glimpse or a sound of that least that 578 00:53:37.960 --> 00:53:43.920 they tagged, that could be convergent evidence. That could be evidence that says, 579 00:53:44.079 --> 00:53:50.320 yes, this was likely a sasquatch we tagged, rather than the uncertainty 580 00:53:50.440 --> 00:53:53.960 that's involved with that. So so you do your you set up, you 581 00:53:54.079 --> 00:54:00.719 design your experiment, you deploy your experiment, you analyze your data and then 582 00:54:00.760 --> 00:54:08.320 you complete the scientific method. It's just that what psychologic sciences can bring to 583 00:54:08.440 --> 00:54:15.599 the research field that isn't going on in the research field right now, because 584 00:54:15.679 --> 00:54:24.639 we're still stuck in this empirical observation kind of rut. It's bringing we're still 585 00:54:24.719 --> 00:54:32.800 studying the phenomena, but it's bringing experimental design and statistical analysis, and so 586 00:54:34.440 --> 00:54:42.440 now we can get key values to know how likely is this study occurred as 587 00:54:42.519 --> 00:54:49.639 a result of random error. We can control and measure human responses to things 588 00:54:49.800 --> 00:54:55.480 like pree Knox or pre structures, and we can factor that out of the 589 00:54:55.559 --> 00:55:01.599 bigfoot data and see how much Bigfoot date, Bigfoot influence is still left. 590 00:55:02.159 --> 00:55:09.519 We're just not moving forward with this experimentation and the statistical analysis as long as 591 00:55:09.599 --> 00:55:15.159 we're just going out there doing observation. Yes, but even if we had 592 00:55:15.039 --> 00:55:22.039 strongly indicative results from well designed experiments, don't you think that there would still 593 00:55:22.119 --> 00:55:25.119 be a need to go cllect specimens and kill a couple of these things. 594 00:55:25.760 --> 00:55:29.400 I would, honestly, I would hope not. Oh, I hope not 595 00:55:29.480 --> 00:55:30.280 too. Don't get me wrong, I want to put that out there. 596 00:55:30.320 --> 00:55:34.559 I hope not as well, But we do. I mean the science is 597 00:55:34.599 --> 00:55:37.039 also stuck in a kind of Victorian mindset about that, I think, right, 598 00:55:37.280 --> 00:55:44.440 right, so, I think you know so my analogy is how many 599 00:55:44.599 --> 00:55:51.400 targets? How many arrows do you have to hit the bulls eye with before 600 00:55:52.000 --> 00:55:55.440 you can say this is being produced. The first step, of course, 601 00:55:55.519 --> 00:56:00.760 is unidentified species. Okay, how many? How many arrows have to hit 602 00:56:00.880 --> 00:56:07.360 the bull's eye before we say that, if we can prove that pre knots 603 00:56:07.519 --> 00:56:14.800 are produced by an unidentified species and not human, that tree structures are produced 604 00:56:15.440 --> 00:56:22.360 by an unidentified species and not human, if we can prove that. You 605 00:56:22.880 --> 00:56:28.559 list the phenomena, the stone clacks, the vocalizations, each one of those 606 00:56:28.760 --> 00:56:34.840 represent an arrow that we're trying to hit the bigfoot target on, and if 607 00:56:34.920 --> 00:56:38.599 we can hit, if we can get seven or eight or nine of those 608 00:56:38.880 --> 00:56:45.000 arrows in that bull's eye, I think that should be enough. I may 609 00:56:45.079 --> 00:56:52.519 be optimistic, but I mean you think about the word intelligence. Nobody questions 610 00:56:52.159 --> 00:56:59.239 the validity of intelligence. It's commonly accepted. Again, yet we can't see 611 00:56:59.280 --> 00:57:05.119 it. Over over the years, we've been able to prove that unseen intelligence. 612 00:57:05.519 --> 00:57:10.559 We've been able to prove those unseen emotions, or you can't directly touch 613 00:57:10.639 --> 00:57:15.119 them emotions, and I don't see why I couldn't, couldn't or shouldn't be 614 00:57:15.280 --> 00:57:22.480 the same for bigfoot. And again, the other important thing that I'm including 615 00:57:22.599 --> 00:57:30.079 in these designs is convergent validity. You know, going out and just getting 616 00:57:30.159 --> 00:57:36.760 a you know, the clearest picture of bigfoot you can isn't going isn't scientific, 617 00:57:36.920 --> 00:57:42.679 It's just not scientific. But you get that picture. Within the context 618 00:57:42.760 --> 00:57:46.679 of some of the experiments that I'm talking about, you get that picture. 619 00:57:47.800 --> 00:57:52.440 I don't know that we're going to get them knocking trees. I don't even 620 00:57:52.519 --> 00:57:58.559 know that they use knocks or they they use a stick to knock on trees. 621 00:57:59.400 --> 00:58:07.079 But we can design experiments so that although we're measuring one variable, we're 622 00:58:07.239 --> 00:58:15.920 using other control variables to prevent the influence of certain things and to rule out 623 00:58:15.360 --> 00:58:21.760 other things through the experimental design and the statistical analysis. And I think if 624 00:58:21.800 --> 00:58:27.239 we keep hitting that target, it's going to become undeniable. Now, something 625 00:58:27.280 --> 00:58:32.800 that might be fuddle that is that the vast majority of bigfoot data is stumbled 626 00:58:32.880 --> 00:58:39.960 upon by citizens, by the non bigfooting public. Does that data have value 627 00:58:40.119 --> 00:58:45.320 or do you have to have a strictly designed experiment behind it. I think 628 00:58:45.400 --> 00:58:52.519 it has value, but we've got to do more with it, at least 629 00:58:52.639 --> 00:58:59.760 the statistics. Every statistic course I've ever taken taught me that in ordered, 630 00:59:00.000 --> 00:59:05.719 we're trying to prove causality. We're trying to prove that bigfoot caused that print 631 00:59:05.840 --> 00:59:10.039 to be there. We're trying to prove that bigfoot cause that free break, 632 00:59:10.559 --> 00:59:15.679 or bigfoot caused that tree structure, or that bigfoot that was bigfoot powling. 633 00:59:16.360 --> 00:59:22.960 So we're trying to prove causality. And the only way that you can scientifically 634 00:59:23.199 --> 00:59:30.320 prove causality is through experimentation. So at some point we're going to have to 635 00:59:31.800 --> 00:59:36.800 start doing experiments. And again, as I said earlier, even if they 636 00:59:36.920 --> 00:59:40.480 have a body, we're still going to have to do experiments to link these 637 00:59:40.559 --> 00:59:50.159 phenomena to Bigfoot scientifically. But we can we can take self reports, anecdotal 638 00:59:50.320 --> 00:59:54.119 evidence. You know, BFRO, I'm sure you know better than I as 639 00:59:54.159 --> 00:59:59.960 a pretty large database, and there are other people out there that have database, 640 01:00:00.000 --> 01:00:08.360 and we can encode those reports. We can assign numbers to certain aspects 641 01:00:08.880 --> 01:00:16.519 of those findings and begin to look at commonalities and differences within and between those 642 01:00:16.760 --> 01:00:23.760 reports. So that's called descriptive statistics. I don't think. I don't think 643 01:00:23.800 --> 01:00:31.559 anyone's even done that much. Taking a big database of reports, assigning numeric 644 01:00:31.760 --> 01:00:37.480 values to them so that they can be statistically analyzed, and then look for 645 01:00:37.639 --> 01:00:42.199 the trends. How many are roadside sidings, how many are sightings back in 646 01:00:42.320 --> 01:00:47.280 the woods, you know, how many involved whatever, you know, whatever 647 01:00:47.480 --> 01:00:57.400 kind of phenomena, And we could numerically reduce all those sightings and statistically analyze 648 01:00:57.480 --> 01:01:01.440 them, and that would give us a better description, I think, and 649 01:01:01.559 --> 01:01:07.639 a more accurate description than what we rely on now, which is opinion and 650 01:01:07.880 --> 01:01:15.960 memory and experience, because those go through our perception, and our perception is 651 01:01:16.159 --> 01:01:22.840 by design biased. We are biased machines because we've got to use our perceptual 652 01:01:22.960 --> 01:01:32.840 processing. So the anecdotal evidence can have descriptive statistical value to help us better 653 01:01:34.039 --> 01:01:39.639 understand what people are seeing and what people are reporting. But if we want 654 01:01:39.679 --> 01:01:45.519 to prove causality, we're either going to have to find one hundred percent correlation 655 01:01:46.400 --> 01:01:52.639 in that descriptive data, or we're going to have to run experiments. Because 656 01:01:52.920 --> 01:02:00.559 when something when there's a causal relationship going on, there's one hundred percent correlation 657 01:02:00.880 --> 01:02:06.480 in that causal relationship. And the good news is is we already know some 658 01:02:06.760 --> 01:02:14.239 answers to causal relationships. We already know that tree knock knocking on a tree 659 01:02:14.920 --> 01:02:21.280 doesn't cause a bigfoot to respond with a tree knock sound, or why do 660 01:02:21.360 --> 01:02:24.559 you say that that doesn't make any sense. They do respond to tree knocks, 661 01:02:25.000 --> 01:02:30.679 you're right, but they don't respond one hundred percent of the time. 662 01:02:30.639 --> 01:02:35.840 Sometimes you make a tree knock and you get a response, other times you 663 01:02:36.079 --> 01:02:42.719 don't. And so there's a correlation between a tree not making provoking with a 664 01:02:42.800 --> 01:02:49.840 tree dock and getting a response, but there's not a causal relationship between us 665 01:02:50.000 --> 01:02:53.719 making a tree dock and getting a response back. And I think a lot 666 01:02:53.800 --> 01:02:58.599 of the bigfoot phenomena are going to be of the same ill. We're going 667 01:02:58.679 --> 01:03:01.719 to be able to show a course relation, but it's not going to beyond 668 01:03:01.760 --> 01:03:07.719 your percent causality. And that's where you need to get into the experiments. 669 01:03:07.559 --> 01:03:10.760 Certainly, there's a there's piles and piles of data, and of course this 670 01:03:10.880 --> 01:03:15.199 is another example where John Green, you know, is ahead of everybody because 671 01:03:15.199 --> 01:03:20.280 he did such a statistical analysis with his sixteen or seventeen hundred sidings I think 672 01:03:20.280 --> 01:03:24.119 in the late nineteen seventies, with a very rudimentary computer, you know, 673 01:03:24.599 --> 01:03:29.320 he did a little bit of this, and again far in front of the 674 01:03:29.400 --> 01:03:31.800 rest of the pack, I guess, but the call has not moved much 675 01:03:31.880 --> 01:03:37.960 further down court. So hopefully with the publication of your new book, then 676 01:03:37.039 --> 01:03:43.920 more people reading it, maybe bigfooters will up their game and start designing experiments 677 01:03:43.960 --> 01:03:45.039 that can be done out in the field. And that's what science is all 678 01:03:45.079 --> 01:03:50.639 about. Develop a hypothesis, develop an experiment to see if you're right or 679 01:03:50.679 --> 01:03:52.639 not, and then circle back around, no matter if the answer is yes 680 01:03:52.880 --> 01:03:57.480 or no. If you get oh, that does support my hypothesis, I'm 681 01:03:57.519 --> 01:04:00.320 going to keep on developing more experiments to see if I can find a situation 682 01:04:00.400 --> 01:04:02.960 in which I'm wrong. And of course, if you are wrong right out 683 01:04:02.960 --> 01:04:06.199 of the gate, then you have to go revise your hypothesis. That's one 684 01:04:06.239 --> 01:04:09.800 thing I like. I like a lot about things about science, but one 685 01:04:09.840 --> 01:04:14.360 thing I particularly like about science is that you're always trying to prove yourself incorrect, 686 01:04:14.960 --> 01:04:17.199 because I'm wrong an awful lot, and every time I'm wrong in science 687 01:04:17.360 --> 01:04:23.159 is actually a victory. And I love that. I love that. I'll 688 01:04:23.159 --> 01:04:29.199 be getting a novel. That's the case. Nice? All right? Well, 689 01:04:29.280 --> 01:04:32.639 hey doctor John, where can people find your book, Grasping Sasquash Prepping 690 01:04:32.679 --> 01:04:40.599 for Scientific Field Research. It's going to be released under Hangar one Publishing Doug 691 01:04:40.719 --> 01:04:45.599 Hichicks Publishing Company. I'm sure it'll be available on hangar you know. I'm 692 01:04:45.639 --> 01:04:48.159 sure it will be multiple ways to obtain the book. Okay. And you 693 01:04:48.199 --> 01:04:54.159 also briefly mentioned about a podcast that you did. Where can people listen to 694 01:04:54.199 --> 01:04:57.039 that if they want to learn more about what you're saying, but more in 695 01:04:57.199 --> 01:04:59.880 depth in that this are one or one hour, you know, interview with 696 01:04:59.880 --> 01:05:05.440 you. So I had a podcast that I just completed about four weeks ago 697 01:05:06.199 --> 01:05:13.719 called Grasping Sasquatch Stories and Science, and kind of format would be what I 698 01:05:13.719 --> 01:05:17.800 would. I would tell a story, relate it to some kind of encounter, 699 01:05:18.599 --> 01:05:24.679 sometimes mine, sometimes other people's, and then we'd relate that to science 700 01:05:24.960 --> 01:05:30.280 and how the scientific aspects of it and how in some cases we might design 701 01:05:30.440 --> 01:05:36.079 experiments around it. And that we even discussed how to tell if infrasound is 702 01:05:36.440 --> 01:05:43.360 if we're psyching ourselves out or are we responding to the actual infrasound as an 703 01:05:43.440 --> 01:05:50.800 example, of another experiment detailed in my book, and so those are also 704 01:05:51.559 --> 01:05:58.840 there's those are on YouTube and as well as untold Radio, and they can 705 01:05:58.960 --> 01:06:04.760 be downloaded on all your major podcast channels. Fantastic, and I'm sure the 706 01:06:04.840 --> 01:06:09.519 lovely and talented Matt Prue will put those links in the show notes below for 707 01:06:09.599 --> 01:06:12.800 all of our listeners to make it nice and easy for people to go check 708 01:06:12.840 --> 01:06:15.719 out what you're doing. Yeah, I got one last quick question for what 709 01:06:15.840 --> 01:06:21.239 are your colleagues other psychologists think about your work? Get any feedback. I've 710 01:06:21.320 --> 01:06:29.639 never been I've never felt the need to hide my interest in Bigfoot because I 711 01:06:29.800 --> 01:06:35.840 was a psychologist, i was already pretty I've always been upfront and unapologetic about 712 01:06:35.880 --> 01:06:41.400 it, and so most of them take, you know, as you would 713 01:06:41.480 --> 01:06:46.119 expect with anyone you tell. You know, the whole gamut of response is 714 01:06:46.280 --> 01:06:55.679 from laughing at you, to a furious skepticism to a real interest to some 715 01:06:55.920 --> 01:07:01.000 believers, and so it you know, it's been the full gamut of stuff. 716 01:07:01.440 --> 01:07:05.800 I've certainly never had it held against me for what it's worth. That's 717 01:07:05.840 --> 01:07:09.159 good to hear, and I'm glad to hear. You're not a coward. 718 01:07:09.199 --> 01:07:12.760 You're out there in front send I believe in this and I'm researching it. 719 01:07:13.480 --> 01:07:15.400 What you see is what you get with me, and I'm so I'm pretty 720 01:07:15.480 --> 01:07:20.519 upfront about steph. Thank you John Brenchak, author of Grasping Sasquatch Prepping for 721 01:07:20.599 --> 01:07:25.880 Scientific field Research. We really do appreciate your time and your expertise and sharing 722 01:07:25.960 --> 01:07:28.840 a little bit about your experience with us, and just good luck with the 723 01:07:28.880 --> 01:07:30.400 book. Really excited to have it out. Yeah, John, thank you, 724 01:07:30.960 --> 01:07:35.239 Thank you, Bobo, thank you, Matt. I really appreciate this 725 01:07:35.440 --> 01:07:40.679 opportunity, and again I'm honored to have it. Thank you very much. 726 01:07:41.320 --> 01:07:44.760 All Right, all right, thanks John, that was great. Good look 727 01:07:44.800 --> 01:07:46.760 at the book. Okay, folks, thanks for joining us this week. 728 01:07:47.440 --> 01:07:50.679 We appreciate it, y'all checking us out, and until next week, y'all 729 01:07:50.800 --> 01:08:00.159 keep it squatchy. Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Bigfoot and Beyond. 730 01:08:00.599 --> 01:08:03.800 If you liked what you heard, please rate and review us on iTunes, 731 01:08:04.239 --> 01:08:09.199 subscribe to Bigfoot and Beyond wherever you get your podcasts, and follow us 732 01:08:09.280 --> 01:08:14.039 on Facebook and Instagram at Bigfoot and Beyond podcast. You can find us on 733 01:08:14.159 --> 01:08:18.039 Twitter at Bigfoot and Beyond. That's an n in the middle and tweet us 734 01:08:18.079 --> 01:08:23.159 your thoughts and questions with the hashtag Bigfoot and Beyond.