Welcome to Stories of Special Forces Operators Podcast. Listen to some of the bravest
and toughest people on the planet share their stories, Sit back and enjoy.
Welcome back to everybody. Well, we have another great returning guest, Bob
Killer. He was in the Units. By the way, folks, you
can find more about him at Keller k E W L E R. Gammut,
Gamut Resolutions, Keller Gammut Resolutions. You can also go to his website
Gamut resolutions dot com. And you can also if you're down in Tampa,
Florida, check out Range Works now Works as w E r X. So
if you're visiting Tampa thinking about visiting Tampa, I would stop by if I
was you so because they we're going to be learning how to shoot the right
way with proven combat shooting technique training with Bob today, we're gonna learn a
little bit about that, a little bit about psychology. Hey, have you
ever wonder what it takes to get into the unit? Well, we'll find
out more about that as well. Before we get started. To make sure
to share subscribe. I like but you know, we like it. That's
not wasting one of the time. Welcome to the show. Bob. Welcome
back, Bob, what's going on? Thanks for having me back, And
I feel I feel like I was back ten minutes ago. That's that's right.
Coming on another podcast with you. You know, we just did a
podcast, folks with John Striker Meyer the McVie sag. Probably seeing him on,
Jocko Willick and Bob did a great, a great thing. He came
in to surprise us and visit us. They were just talking highly about the
unit, Bob. That's the funny thing. They were just saying how amazing
these guys were. And I said, I'll be damned, I got a
guy's coming on the boom there. Yeah, you lift their faces up,
that's for sure. There was like it was like a parties like that time
when you had that. Your buddies came on too. That was like a
wild Yeah. Those those usually do really well. Yeah, that's still in
the top ten podcast we've ever had. Yeah, you guys, that was
a crazy one. And it really is the way to do it because when
it comes to stories like I'm horrible like remembering things, I mean, so
every year it gets worse, but when you get it. You had that
one guy. You guys were all crutching on the one guy who remembers everything.
I forgot his name. Yeah, that's Nate. So it's it's awesome
to get, you know, every like once a year, twice a year
to do stuff like this because he'll remember the missions and like like, once
I hear it, I'll remember it. But I wouldn't be able Like if
you just said, you know, talk about six missions graft the bat,
I mean, you'll probably take me a week to remember six missions, like
all the way through, you know, but you know, Nate, he
was one of the He's one of those guys that has a good memory.
So it is fun to do, uh, to do this podcasts with with
multiple guys because that one or two missions you remember, they might not remember,
and then once you started talking about it, then everyone remembers it,
and you know it's it's I was like, who was the other gentleman?
I forgot his name? Sure, Gilly. That was cracking me up on
that one, because remember Nate was late about twenty minutes and you guys were
freaking You're like, oh, yeah, the one who's got the stories.
Where was Nate? Exactly? I was like, where the hell is Nate?
Yeah? Because because Brian. He doesn't have a good memory either,
so it's like you gotta have that third or fourth guy that remembers everything.
Looka they're like, but the fifteen minutes, it was like, yeah,
I remember what was that? Oh? Yeah, who was that? It
was like I was frustrating. It was funny, I was. We We
did another one a couple of months ago, okay, and he brought up
a story that I had totally forgot about, and so it was cool for
me. Like, as he's talking about I'm like, holy crap. I
was like, I do remember that, but I hadn't. I hadn't talked
about that one like that one would have been off the books forever, you
know, I would have never I never remembered it. So it was really
cool, you know, to do it again and to hear hear new stuff
that I just TOLDY forgot. How long were you with the year again?
Uh? Ten years? That's why you probably wait, went fifty missions?
Forty missions? It was over eight hundred with yeah, oh so you're kind
of okay, I'm thinking of deployments mostly. Okay, so you're kind of
like you're going to missions like every year. The week we'll probably have two
a week or three a week or something like that. We'd do two a
day to a day. It was. It was crazy. And then that's
why I went there, you know. It's like that's right, Like my
sp deployment was my which my first deployment was a great, great deployment,
great experience. I wouldn't take like if I if I had to do again,
I'd go back the same thing, just different, totally different mission set
um. So to be able to say that I was that I actually did
the true SF mission overseas, you know, in a combat zone. Would
you can't like that's awesome. I wouldn't. I would never go back in
and change that. But it wasn't. You weren't doing missions every night,
and that would have been one of those one of those things where it was
maybe once once or twice a week, you know, if you were lucky.
So like that that first time that I actually got in a gunfight or
you know, like actually got shot at and realized that I liked it and
like this is for me, this is my life. After that deployment or
during that deployment, I was like I wanted more. So that was the
reason why I went to the unit some people I've heard, which I think
that was on the last one we talked about or not with you, But
this last one, I was a Gillie and Nate I was, And this
is the first time i'd've heard this. Some guys at the unit like went
to the unit because they knew everyone there was the best and like, so
if they're gonna be in the military and go overseas and they have to fight,
they want to fight with the best people, right, Like it almost
made them more comfortable. So when I heard that, I was like,
that's crazy, Like I'd never thought of that. My whole reason for going
to the unit was to get more gunfights. Like that was the only reason
I could have cared less if guys were switched on or if guys were you
know, like safer and safer to be around. Like I knew that they
were getting on, So that's where I wanted to go. So that's an
interesting too. Yeah, So like going back to like the mission wise,
Yeah, I mean there was some nights for some days, like weeks,
weeks in a row, we were going on two missions a day, so
we literally we literally touched the tip of the iceberg of your missions. Yeah,
we're not even close. And that's that's what's crazy, Like all the
times you go out there like there's no way. And maybe if it was
like a traumatic experience for people, they're gonna remember it more, but like
for me, it was just a normal job. You know, like if
if you went out on a mission and nothing happened, well, that just
flushed from my brain. I got it. I wouldn't even wouldn't even think
twice about it, right, So I'm not gonna remember all of them.
But yeah, it's crazy how like people always like I think, I think
people that are that got there after me, or guys that weren't there during
the heat of it, you know, when they hear like eight hundred missions
or a thousand missions, like there's no way, there's no way that you
are on eight hundred missions or what we call them hits. And you think
about if you're going out, so you're over there for four months at a
time, and you like I have with with the unit twelve I think twelve
deployments with them, so you gotta think four months however many days that is,
and then you take that over fourteen fourteen deployments if you add it up,
if you're going on even if you were just going out once a day
that quick, and it really and it comes down to like what troop you're
in, what squadron you're into, Like it's a it's a luck thing.
It's kind of like when the lottery, like if you get over and you
happen to be at that perfect spot you know, for that trip and there's
stuff going on, like it's it's just blowing up, like the stuff every
night to hit, Well, that's the missions start adding up real quick.
So I got, I got. I was very fortunate to be the way
that I am and wanting those missions, like to be in the troops and
the squadron that I would that I was in from for my whole career or
some people, I'm sure we're getting burnt out, you know, like if
they're getting over there and then then you're going out twice twice a night or
every every day that I'm sure some people were like this is stupid. But
to me, I liked it, and everyone that I worked with um and
I knew it was the same thing. Like it was never like oh we
have another one like you right, uh yeah, if you're lucky, I'd
say five five or six if you're lucky, and then it usually it was
like four or five, and Nate and Gillie were with you most of the
time. Yeah, yep, Okay. You had one other guy I think
or something you mentioned before. Yeah, probably was probably was braun Um.
I don't think I've ever done any podcast with him. No, you mentioned
some other guy. Another was there was I don't know if it was him
or not. There was one guy you guys laughed a little bit about because
he was kind of I think he came in at the end or something like
that. I came remember right now, Yeah, Dee, that's why.
That's why I need two other guys. Well, you know what, I'll
talk to Sean if you're up for Will you do another one with Sean?
That's tier one because he really admired you guys too when he was working in
Canada. He was the guy who met on the John Striker Show. So
we're doing a lot. We're kind of revisiting a lot of the guys I
mentioned before because I used to get a lot of flack, why are you
doing these podcasts you're not military? And I do it because I wanted to
learn myself and I look at the psychologically it's different. You guys are different,
There's no doubt about it. And I even showed my classes some of
you guys and not like show them, look look at this guy, but
I show him and say, listen to their stories and say how resilient people
can be. Yeah, because it blows their mind every time they hear.
You know, Ryan Hendrickson, he's the Green Beret that stepped in the ied
and lost his leg. No, I mean it sounds familiar, but that's
that's kind of a normal last name. So maybe I've heard. Yeah,
Heed, he stepped in ID lost his leg and they told him you're done,
and he got He got deployed again two years later. Yeah, which
is amazing. It's like, whoa, you actually went back they said,
Yeah, they told me forget it, just hang it up. Whoa,
that's intense stuff there. Um. Yeah. Yeah, so that's kind of
revisiting some of these stories. So yeah, it'd be great we can kind
of get you guys back on again and and have it because he he provides
a little bit of a different angle than I do. I looked at the
psychology of it, but he'll provide more of the operator stuff. And he'll
say, well, what did you guys do here? Whatever it is,
you know how it goes? Yeah, that'd be fascinating. Um, But
I think the psychology part does come and play a bit, you know,
big, big time for being to being at or to being at that level,
not only operationally, but I mean just just staying there that long,
you know. I mean, you gotta have the right mindset. You truly
have to love what you're doing, because I mean, the the burnout rate
would be just would be huge because you sound like you're you almost sound like
when I when I'm interview cops, and I have a lot of cop friends,
and I asked them I used to ask to night, I'm that stupid.
So I used to ask the questions like anything stand out in your career?
And then it becomes the exact same situation as you, and they're like,
yeah, about two thousand things stand out and my career because every knife
there's about five things. You're like, what the hell happened here? Yep?
Exactly. That is kind of how it would be it, man,
if you're talking about there on, Yeah, the stuff that they get to
see every single day, there's no way you can remember everything right, So
yeah, but when it comes to missions, it's it's it was the it
was like the big Ones or you know where something really bad happened that sticks
out. But even to me, like I just never I never thought of
it as a big deal, you know, Like I mean there was it
would be funny to have my wife here, Like there was one where where
two guys got shot on target and one of them was my really good buddy
and are my wife and his wife were good friends. Well he gets shot,
you know, we we send him on or send him on the bird,
um the ship moped the Germany, you know, to surgery and everything,
and like to us, like even though he's my really good buddy,
I didn't think anything of it. I'm just not like that's that's the game
that we played every single time that we go on target. We can get
shot and you accept it, and you accept that anyone else can get a
shot. So when someone get shot and you've already accepted it, it's not
a big deal. It's like we finished the mission. You know, when
I went back that night, UM didn't even think about like calling my wife
and saying you know this. You know I'm not gonna say his name,
but you know he'd been shot because I didn't think it was a big deal.
Well, it just happened to be, Like, my wife called his
wife just just out of the blue, and she was like, I just
got a you know, a phone call from you know, the army,
and this is what happened. So now my wife knows that I'm on target
with him, right, So she's wondering what the heck happened. You know,
she's breaking out, and you know, I'm back there, probably watching
a movie, not even thinking twice about it. Well, I happened to
call her like that, either that night or the next night or a couple
of nights later, you know, and she's like, so, did anything
you know, did anything happen last night? And I was like, I
don't know why, you know, like she was acting weird, and then
she was like, I know what happened. She was like, oh,
she was mad that I didn't let her know. And it wasn't that I
was trying to hide it. I just didn't think it was a big deal.
It was just another mission. Do you think people people did hurt,
people die, people get shot, and that's that might sound kind of harsh
or like you know, cold hearted. But that's just how we are,
you know, I mean, we're not we're not gonna dwell on like if
someone dies in front of us, We're not gonna dwell on that, you
know, the next day or or ten years later. I mean, that's
that's the game that we play, that's the game that we wanted to be
in. Use that. It's kind of interesting when you use that analogy,
because that's exactly what you sounded like to me. You sound are you a
baseball fan? No basketball fan? Nope, football. It's not to me
like a bay I'm gonna go back to baseball, didn't forget it, But
it's not to me like, um, you're a baseball player and one of
your teammates polls is polls of Hammy, all right, next we know who's
taken over him. That's about it, Because it sounds like you just kind
of not worry about it. Maybe all maybe you don't, you know,
I don't know. I mean, I'm not totally colehearted. I mean,
yeah, I don't want people to die, but I'm not that's not gonna
affect me. I'm not gonna go back and you know, cry on my
pillow because someone someone got killed or someone got shot. I mean I would
think we almost look at as like, hey, now we're down a guy.
You know, now we're down a good guy, and you know,
how do we how do we make up for that now? But you almost
how it truly was all about the next mission and you almost have too when
you can't go on with your mindset wondering about you getting killed next because that's
not gonna make you very effective visit. Nope. Yeah. So I think
that is the difference between some people and others is like like a guy like
me, I just and that's I don't I don't have I don't have any
problems, you know, mentally getting out because I just wasn't that. For
one, I was never I was never afraid on any mission. I went
on like I didn't go over seas and ever think I don't want to die,
Like I just accepted I was gonna get killed from from almost day one
of my first deployment. Just accept I'm not coming back. Well, if
you can truly accept that you're not going to be scared when when you know
when bad things happen and then you're not gonna dwell on them in the past,
because if if it's a traumatic like scary situation, I think that's where
the what do they call it now, the PTS or PTP, I think
it is PTS whatever, like like I can I can see that happening.
If that, if that's a scary moment and you're playing that in your head
every single day, well that's that's going to affect you, right. But
to me, like I just the next day, I let it go.
It was the next it was the next day, it was the next mission.
Like I'm not thinking of what happened on that last mission, like,
oh, two guys got shot, it could be me next. I didn't
care, so amazing, which which I think helped me out a lot,
especially now, you know, being retired, I don't. I don't.
There's no I don't ever. I don't ever look back and like like say,
oh, I'm so I'm so lucky that I didn't get shot, I
didn't get killed nothing ever, because I never I never thought about that when
I was there, So I'm not gonna think about it now. Yeah,
you're right. In PTSD obviously just different. Everybody's got different upbringings, different
storylines, and different ways of thinking. So it affects people differently. Doesn't
mean folks, but it's just different. And I totally agree. Um,
like I would never I would never say anything bad about someone that's saying they
have it, but like to me that it was just never never affected me
because I wanted to be in that situation. How many you think in the
unit were like that quite a bit? Yeah, yeah, I mean,
And it's it's funny there. You don't you're not friends with everyone. Everyone
always thinks like everyone knows each other. You barely know many people. It's
just the people that you actually train with and you go to size with.
And I mean, and that's another thing being fortunate to be on the right
troop and the right squadron my whole career, Like everyone I worked with was
like minded, like like on like on like how I was. I might
be, I might be to the extreme of that, but it was all
guys that wanted to be there. That's that's what's so cool like about that
place, you know, like in wartime to being being around that many people
that that had no fear and that actually wanted to be there, Like that's
that's just awesome stuff that it would have been. It would have been cool
to ask, um, what was what was the the the the sad guy's
name, Oh, John Striker, Like, it would have been cool to
see if if he felt the same way like the guys that he went on
you know, target with every night over in Vietnam, if that was the
same feeling, or you know, we're some guys leery of you know,
being there. I'm trying to see if we approach that or not. You
know why that could be, Um, that'd be that'd be a That'd be
a cool one to see the difference of back then when it was a draft
and who you know, we're guys just going there because they thought it was
the best place to be and that you know that they have a better chance
being you know, being on a team with a bunch of people, but
still had fear or was everyone like like I'm explained, was like how it
was at the unit. It'd be cool. It would be interesting to see.
Yeah, I think there was a little bit of that. He mentioned
sometimes that some of the guys, most of the guys he just said,
they didn't think about it. They just did what they had to do and
that was the end of it. Yeah, because he had one guy I
think it was one of the first guys. He calls a halo high altitude
low something or other. Yep, And he was the first guy to do
it. And they were just doing it. It was about the end of
it. It wasn't like, what's going to happen, It's like, no,
they just did it. I was like, really was And I asked
him what kind of mindset did this guy have? Because he just didn't give
a shit about it anything. He just did it. That was the end
of it. You didn't worry about it. How is Michael leg gonna hurt
my toe gonna get stuffed? He just did it. Was the end of
it. It's like, oh, all right, Yeah, I'd a good
way to do it. Yeah, it'd be interesting to do a show with
I wish I would have been able to jump on earlier. We can do
that one. I think it'd be a great one to have you, him,
you and him on again, and then maybe even Nate and Gilly.
We gotta get Nate the least speaking remember stuff, and I think that'd be
a fascinating show. I apologize everyone on my memory. I still know some
stories, but no, it's all right. Today it's kind of more of
a different more about you, And I think I like the direction already we're
going, because the mindset is so different when people ask you. I'm gonna
ask you this question in a minute. But before I get to ask you
that question, I want to see if you've ever heard of that phrase and
see if it resonates in the world of sports, which is a phrase that
says some people argue whether it's the athlete that picks the sport or the sport
picks the athlete. So ballerina's tend to be long and lanky, So is
it the sport that's actually picking those girls and guys who look like that already
or really turn into that whatever. But I'm wondering if the unit's the same
way. Is it the unit that's picking those guys or is it the guy
picking the unit? And I get the funny feeling it might be the unit
picking those guys. And in other words, you have to be a certain
mindset to be able to deal with that, I think, and no one
knows. No one knows the secret for that, So I can't talk like
how they select, which is awesome. I mean that that's like, that's
like one of the secrets that no one, no one has been told,
you know, besides the people that are there's there's only really people at a
given time, yea. Um, but you still you still have to pick
like you and that's that was the difference. That's why it'd be funny or
it'd be cool to see the difference between like Vietnam and you know, the
Special Ops in Vietnam compared to the Special Ops when when I was going overseas,
because like when after after a couple of years of fighting, um,
the unit was getting people that had already been overseas and they already realized they
liked it, right, they they they already knew that they like gunfighting.
So the guys that we were getting, you know, are you're they're coming
over not because they think it's just because it's a better unit and they and
they think it's cool. They're going there because they know that that's they're they're
gonna be getting it on a lot more like they're gonna be going on way
more missions. Right, So, like the vetting process on the guys picking
the unit is better because you know, almost almost every single guy after after
like the first four or five years that were coming to the unit. We're
going there with experience, so they had already been in a gunfighter too,
they already knew that they wanted more. You know, it wasn't like pre
nine eleven when guys were going to the unit. They were going there like
thinking that they that they would like it, but they've never been in a
gunfight. They didn't know. Oh like Somalia's black Hawk down the Operation Gothic
Serpent thing, a lot of those guys hadn't gone yet, right, So
so it would have been it'd have been harder to pick. It would have
been harder to get the right person that's picking the unit because they only know,
Like if you've never been in a gunfight, you might think you want
to be in a gunfight, but until you actually in a gunfight, you're
not gonna know if you like it or not. So after, you know,
three or four years after nine eleven, we were getting people that knew
they already liked gunfighting. Interesting, you know what I'm saying. So so
it was it was an easier vetting process on the mindset of that compared to
pre nun eleven. But now, like the unit picking the right person,
no one knows the secret, like on what on what they're what they're truly
looking for, which I think is awesome. Yeah, that's that's that's great
that you know a guy that like me who had been there ten years,
and guys that have been there fifteen twenty years, if they weren't in that
position of the you know, to know what they're selecting for no one else,
which is which is cool. It's a it's a great secret. By
the way of folks, again, we're talking to Bob Keller. You learn
more about him at Gamut Resolutions gamut resolutions dot com. Also, if you're
down in Tampa, Florida, can check out Range Works WRX and see what's
going on down there, because we're gonna be you know, let this kind
of a I don't know if you know, probably not because I haven't talked
to you for a little bit. But I'm getting another doctor in an exercise
science and I'm seeing a lot of overlap here. And what I mean by
that is it might take about ten seconds, twenty seconds for me to collaborate
on this, but what I'm seeing as the mentality you're describing right now,
I can see the benefit it has for you. In other words, if
you're not worried about getting shot, if you're not worried about dying, you're
only worried about one thing, winning those gunfight. Yep. That really takes
a lot of distractions out because just like a baseball player or an athlete or
mixed martial artist. I'm a big fan of UFC, if they're worried about
getting hit, if they're worried about getting mounted, now they got two things
operating. Yep. So am I right on that. There's the same thing
for guys. Absolutely, yeah, because I can't send that effective for you
if you're worried about getting shot. I mean, yeah, it's a man
and being on target, especially like once you get into like the two IIC
second in charge or first and charge team leader, Like you're making judgment calls,
right, So you can't be on target worrying about getting shot, Like
you got to be thinking about the situation in front of you, which is
the gun plight. You know, where you guys are gonna go, what
door you're gonna go to, or you're gonna send your guys. So there's
a lot of thinking involved on being on target. So yeah, if you
take the fear out of it, and you can just it's like it's kind
of like playing a game, right and you're you're calling plays. But if
you can do that calm and not having to work, you know, not
having that fear, it definitely makes it easier. Absolutely absolutely applies. I
don't know if you trained that, I'm thinking of back of my head.
Have you used anything like that when you're training when you train individuals obviously more
advanced, But do you say, all right, we're gonna have a guy
over there. He's gonna be shooting red pellets at you while you're trying to
hit the target and you're moving, So now you have somebody moving and somebody
getting worried about getting hit with the target. If you get hit with the
target, you're oute. We moved to the next person. Have you done
that before? Yeah, well not not in my training, you don't.
I don't do any sims stuff where it's simmunitions being shot at. Not that
that's a bad thing, but but it is easy. Like I do a
class, which I got another one coming up in September. It's called Shooting
Save and it's it's medical training along with shooting. But at the end of
the second day we actually put the guy's shoe scenarios where they're now they're doing
like live fire with other people shooting around them, live fire, and then
there we're incorporating the med stuff into it. And that's where it is.
It's interesting to watch because I'll do all the shooting stuff, and then I
bring another company in to do all the med stuff, and like I'll see
guys that are just switched on, like on the shooting side right like you
can tell this guy's he knows what he's doing, like on the you know,
the weapons hand lane and shooting, and then you you put them into
a live fire scenario med like med scenario, and and guys are shooting right
next to him and then all of a sudden you're like, all right,
you're right leg shot. And then and then after he put the turn and
get on, you're like, all right, now that the mannekin has a
sucking chess wound or something, you know. And to watch these guys that
were switched on shooting to now just totally fall apart because their mind is now
thinking of something else. It's it's pretty interesting to see, um huh,
like not being able to stay calm and they one hundred percent. No,
it's training. It's not real keep. But people really get into like really
get into it, and they're so worried about the med stuff and us yelling
at him saying, you know, this is happening, and then you got
you got threat left front right, and now they're trying to make shots and
they're still thinking about what they were supposed to be doing to the to the
patient. Like basically all everything falls apart, which is it's it's but it's
cool for them to see that, you know, like what they were doing
perfect on the flat range when all they had to do is thinking about the
shooting. To now on they have to think about multiple thing multiple like men's
stuff and shooting and people shooting around them. Um, it's a it's a
good eye opener for people to be holy crapy. I would have never thought
it was that stressful, you know, when you incorporate other things than just
shooting. So does it end for them? In other words, is there
like an object an objective in the sense of you gotta this guy and then
yeah they got killed, yeah, and we I mean it's it's basically just
a lane. So like the mannequins are out in front they have to go
to go to get the mannequins. They kind of got to come up with
their own plan because we sent them as a team. And then they once
they get the mannequins back and everyone's treated, then we index from there.
Um. But can they get ended if they get shot themselves and that's it
so if they failed the mission, No, it's not like a mission.
I mean, it's just it's it's literally just the lame. But I mean,
like if like I'll be in charge of the shooting guy, like the
guys that are shooting, and so I'll be like, they'll let barriers where
they were they're bringing the mannequins to the treatment, you know. And if
someone if I say threat left, and two guys pop out from behind cover
and start shooting when they could have used the cover, like I'll just say,
okay, now you're left arm shot or you're left leg shot because you
weren't shooting behind cover. You know. But that's the stuff people don't think
about, like because that's it's it's kind of it's kind of can because no
one's shooting back at them, so you know they will they'll they'll pop out
from behind cover when they probably wouldn't if it was live, but you never
know that. They don't even think about it. Like sometimes I'll say you're
left leg shot and here's the reason why, and they don't even realize that
they weren't shooting from behind cover. It's interesting because it's kind of like sometimes
it sounds like mixed martial arts. Do you do any martial arts? I
did? Yeah, you boxing or something I did. I ended up ended
up doing pretty much nothing but boxing, so I was I would say I
got pretty big into Brazilian jiu jitsu, and then dude, I would say
I got the unit more of the mixed martial arts, like combining both.
But my just from all the grappling, my elbows were just totally shot.
Yeah. I mean it would get to the point where I couldn't even shake
someone's hand, okay, and I couldn't hold a pistol. So I stopped
grappling and just went to straight up, you know, stand up boxing.
Well, the reason I say is because the analogy seems similar to when people
are learning how to box and they're trying to teach them how to throw a
punch, and they throw a punch, but then they leave their hand down
and they throw the punch and they make it tag them a little bit on
the face. Hey, keep your hand up, keep your hand up,
and they're like, oh, we go back to the punching and the kind
of get like that. And I'm showing the motion folks where my left is
supposed to cover my face while I'm throwing the right cross and people dropped the
left and then they get tagged by the instructor. That's a good instruction,
right, think, because they're saying keep your hand up, and they're kind
of the same thing with your earths because you've you've added so much extra stress.
Stress and you said people don't look to think about the guy popping up
on the left. Yeah, fascinating, So if that guy pops up.
But that's a good example of like doing the basics over and over. Yeah,
because if you're training on boxing and doing that, throwing those punches and
having your left hand or right hand up to protect your head, you do
that thousands and thousands of reps, even when you're not thinking straight, that's
still gonna come into play, right, So same thing for you, it
should happen. And same thing with shooting. So it's like people have said
about it. A lot of people have said, like the unit is the
masters of perfecting the fundamentals of the basics, And that is true. You
do the right thing thousands or hundreds of thousands of times, eventually when it
comes time to do it for real, just gonna take over. And that
that hundred percent leads into gunfighting or like CQUB the close Scorers battle. If
if all the stuff with my hands and my gun is straight up on autopilot,
when I get into a gunfight, my brain can be thinking of the
situation in front of me. It doesn't have to worry about getting into a
good stance or getting into a good grip, or getting my hands where they
need to be, or you know, working the selector switch, or getting
my finger on the trigger where it needs to be, pulling the trigger properly
to the rear, you know, resetting properly, Like I don't have to
think about that if I've done hundreds of thousands of reps the correct way,
So all that in a gunfight is just not an autopyn So my brain can
one hundred percent be focused on the situation. In funny, and that's how
it needs to be. That's awesome. I guess the question that would be,
we know, with boxing obviously can go do it three or four times
a week. What would you recommend for somebody who's in a higher level like
that? How often should they be training situations like that well or just or
just shooting like the like the fundamentals in the basics, the fundamentals in the
basics. And then also that's all it is. I mean, it's it's
crazy people every and I don't I get it for like the normal civilian,
they like once they do the basics, like some people realize, okay,
I need to start with the basics. But then after a year or two
year, two a couple of years of doing the basics, like I want
to do the cool stuff, right, So then they end up going to
like the cool guy classes and doing the running and gun and stuff. And
there's nothing wrong with that. But it's truly just perfecting the basics. So
even though it's boring, and that's what I do in my classes, like
I I'm kind of like the people have said, like I'm known as like
the boring instructor, Like I like I and I would never I would never
change that because I know that that's what works. Even though it's not the
fun sex stuff. It's it's like that. I never I never did any
like cool guys stuff at the unit by myself. No, not one time
did I do that. When I when I would go shoot the range by
myself and we would we would definitely do like the running gun and stuff.
We do the vehicle stuff, um me included. But ninety ninety five percent
of my training when I went to the rains by myself, straight up basics,
just over and over, year after year after year. It's the only
thing that matters. Isn't there a picture with you holding an oozy sideways shooting.
I'm sure I have a video out there like that now they are nowadays
you probably do. Yeah, it's funny when you see some of these videos
with the gang members. That's not the funny for it, but you see
them shooting the gun and it's kind of clocked to the side and you're kind
of like, oh, yeah, what you're doing. It's all theatrics and
the it's it's again going back to like what people see in movies and they
think that's the cool stuff, and that's what they want to do. If
you want to be a good gunfighter. You do the basics hundreds and hundreds
of thousands of times. So it sounds like you're agreeing with Wyatt Or when
why says to win a gunfight you has to be someone or multiple people have
set me some video that has gone kind of viral. I guess, yeah,
and it was, and I listened to it. I was like,
Yeah, that's exactly, That's that's how I was. Nothing, calm,
collected, a sure hand. That's the only way. You don't have to
be fast, just have to be accurate and calm. Yeah, So I
totally agree with that, And it's it's cool to hear that from you know,
like way back when, like he realized that that that's so anything that
mattered. So yeah, it's amazing because when I look at it, when
I listen to your story now and listen to what you're talking about again,
it goes back to that mentalther you had you didn't worry about that allowed you
to stay calm within there. Did you also notice and sports they'll call it
flow um, they'll call it time dilation where everything slows down? Did you
notice that? And your gunfights with those slow and dowsking can concentrate no,
nothing at No. I've been I've been asked that tons of times, and
I've heard of other people saying that. I don't know if they're just saying
that because they've heard that that was the thing, and then they think that
they need to say that, No, that that never happened to me.
On target really like to where everything just slowed down and like everything was clear
as no, I mean everything was clear. No, I mean it wasn't
there. It was never even came close to panic being or or being stressed
out. But yeah, I've never had that like what people have said,
like everything just slows down. It's like it's on slow more or something that
never happened to me. That could happen to other people, but to me,
no, And I don't mean to be too personal, but I know
as I do these interviews. We also have a series. I do a
lot of podcasts, folks, but there's another podcast I'm doing. We're doing
a health series. I'm interviewing doctors small kinds of fields, and we had
a vision doctor talking about myopia. But I'm also interviewing athletes and athletic trainers
and stuff. And it's kind of interesting because athletes are really different, not
the same as everybody. Again, I really think sometimes the sport picks the
player and they got they got stronger feet. They have bigger feet, sometimes
stronger big toe, which is a big thing in an athletic world. But
one of the things I learned and I'm wondering about you, is a lot
of athletes, especially in baseball, didn't just have twenty twenty. There was
a study done in Japan and here, but a lot of the number one
hitters had twenty fifteen, twenty ten, and people just never hear that.
And I'm wondering, did you have twenty twenty or better? Better? That's
so funny that you wropped that up, because I've been I've been saying that
now and I never that never even occurred to me that that was a big
thing. And then the last couple of years, I've funny that you said
that because so you've you've Is it like a proven thing that better people are
just like the best athletes have better vision. I don't know about all the
athletes. We have one right now. We're asking at an institute that studies
athletes in different capacities and have an eye area. But we know what the
batters. There's a lot of them that are showing that that Eatro Suzuki was
one that was being done. So I interviewed his trainer. Each Suzuki was
the famous Japanese baseball player for the Yankees, and his vision was like twenty
twelve or twenty fifteen, but once he got to about forty it started to
go to twenty twenty. And the reason being he couldn't pick up the laces
of the balls the split second that ball is coming at you ninety plus,
so you have to pick it up. And so I'm kind of curious about
because I'm getting a funny feeling everything else is different. I totally agree that.
So in the last couple of years since I've been losing in my vision
and it and it does suck. Now I'm fifty years old now and and
i've I've been I've been saying, like, I think that's the key,
like to being a better operator or a better athlete, is all eyes.
What did you say you would I never thought that when I was there,
because I had that perfect vision, not that I was saying not that I'm
saying I was the best, but I think that helped me. Why did
you think made me or made me better than others. And why would you
say that? Do you think it was able to say? Yeah, I
mean it. I'm just now that now that I don't have that perfect vision
like I did, like I am slower at doing things like I mean,
you just you can't like especially being like operations like I mean, like I
think another thing is that now that I've been thinking about the whole eye thing
and like what what does make people the best? I do think think it's
like one of the one of the biggest ones would be eyes. And then
after that it's like I think balance is a huge deal too. People that
have really good balance are better, maybe not on athletic side, but like
operator side, that's a huge deal. So like I this good eyes and
a and a really good sense of balance. I think is the difference of
like a good operator and a great operator. Why the balance versus a couple
to play for you guys, it's just like just all the and not I
wouldn't say like shooting wise, but just everything like the agility that we have
to have, like on target and getting there faster and getting around things and
getting up and over things like I and I could be way out, way
out there. But I'm like about, like, what was the difference?
And I think for me it was it was eyesight and balance and then everything
else. You still gotta be athletic. You still gotta have great cardio,
you still gonna have really good endurance, you gotta have speed, you gotta
have strength, you know, to being the best of the best. Um.
But yeah, I mean just just in the last couple of years of
thinking about it, like what what was the difference to me? I think
it was eyesight melts. Yeah, that's interesting. Just and I don't I
don't know how to explain it, just like overall balance on this everything you're
everything you're doing. You don't see if I can do it for you a
little bit, because I know they've been in the athletic world. They have
is what they're called speed, agility, and quickness. So speed is running
literally, so I've got to run from this humpby right straights behind that building
for cover. Agility means I gotta start dodging these things. And then quicknesses
hope, I gotta response back here, I gotta turn around, fire,
then poop, I gotta react to this thing. So kind of like a
receiver or wide receiver kind of reacting. So those three I can see those,
Yeah, I can see those definitely applying for you. So those three
things you think too. Right. It's funny though the ice set that you
mentioned that because I have been thinking about that a lot. Yeah, so
I totally agree. Like really good eyesight is the difference. What about it?
HU and find motor skills is something else is going to be something I
haven't explored yet, but I have seen some athletes have better mind, find
motors and more sensitive. Yeah. Well, I think, like like for
precision shooting, that would be a thing, but like for like assault type
stuff, I don't think that that would be that big big a deal.
Okay. I mean when it came down to like pasta rescue shots like precision
shooting, um, especially with the finger, like the finger finger, that
would that would come into play. Um, But like assault shooting, like
fast, fast shooting, big target, I don't think that's that that big
a deal when it comes to an operator wise, that's fine. We're interviewed
in Bake BISG. He's coming back next week a different guy than John,
and I remember the story he was talking about when he was the first time
I ever deployed. He was in the helicopter and he was getting ready to
land in Vietnam somewhere, and all of a sudden, he was about he
told me, like ten feet away from the ground and he was getting dropped
off by the helicopter. All of a sudden, these guys popped out of
the bushes and started firing. So they started firing, and they hit the
guy next to him, and he's, you know, he's helping him get
back into the helicopter and blood all over his hands, and he starts telling
me because he's he's got a doctor in psychology too. Now it's kind of
funny, but he said, I try to grab my I think it was
a magazine. I try to grab it. I couldn't do it because my
hands were so bloody, and my fine motor skills were rocked because I was
so nervous. He was like twenty one, twenty two years old, and
I'm trying to grab this thing I'm getting shot at. I couldn't do it.
That's what kind of made me think about the fine motor skill. Do
you notice that all with people you train, people who maybe get leery because
of the sound of the gun worried about the gun having issues. Yeah,
yeah, absolutely. I mean my people that aren't that don't shoot a lot
and that aren't confident like with their with with their weapons handling skills. Yeah,
that's a huge deal. And that's that's probably the biggest thing. One
of the biggest things I uh, that that I want you to get out
of one of my classes is becoming more confident. And that's like confidence in
in weapons handling. So like after two days, two days and two days
of a class that you're with me or if you come back to the class
it's a five day class. Um, I'll always say to begin the class,
one of the one of the three things that I really want you getting
out of my class is becoming smarter, safer, and more confident. Let's
see the confidence part and like and the confidence thing is is a huge huge
deal. People don't have like just thinking all the people out there in America
that have concealed carry proments, that that carry dealing that don't actually have the
confidence that they can that they can make a hospitas you shot, or that
they can actually manipulate at that gun craft. So it was a lot.
So that is that's you know not only the shooting an accuracy. I definitely
want you getting that out of my class, but just after two days of
the drills that I'm putting you through it, it's after those two days you
should feel like I can control these guns, like I do know what I'm
doing right. Um, So, yeah, you're not fidgeting, You're not
you're not second guesting yourself, and you put your pistol, You're you're you're
bringing a rightfle up. It's a huge deal. I got a confidence in
a gunfight. It was almost everything. Wow, if you don't have if
like if you if you're going if you're going into a gunfight because you're in
the military and you second guess yourself or you doubt yourself, or if you're
a concealed carry person you're carrying a pistol and you you leave the house that
day and you're questioning if you can make a host rescue shot fast enough.
Do you think you're gonna be a good gunfighter? Okay, you're gonna suck.
Right. You have to know when you leave that house, and that's
where training comes into play. You train enough to where you have that confidence
to know when you leave your house if I get in a gunfight, I
can definitely be fast enough. I can definitely be accurate enough to not shoot
a friendly and that's so that's the confidence you have to have. So those
those three things are like the biggest thing I want to get out of any
class you come to with me. Let me ask you this, Bob,
And again we're talking to Bob Killer. You can find more about him at
gamut resolutions dot com, gamut resolutions dot com, or Killer Gamut Resolutions over
on Instagram. From down to Tampa near Tampa. On a fly to Tampa,
you can check out range Works w r X, w rx X,
range Works. UM. Let me ask you this Bob again, another analogy,
but this time we're gonna go over to the mid mixed martial arts I've
talked to. I've interviewed a lot of black belts in jiu jitsu and some
coaches from fights, and it's interesting to me. I should get Don fry
On here, But it's interesting to me about one of the things I hear
and say a lot is people come in here thinking they already know how to
fight, even though they don't know how to fight. Is one of those
challenges. And I'm thinking do you have the same thing, or people said,
well, I'm show me a couple of tricks. I got this down
already. Yep. Oh, every I would say, every single class,
like you have, you have people coming that like I've been I've been shooting
guns for thirty years, Like i know what I'm doing, and I think
that's I'm a I'm a pretty good instructor. It comes to like I'm never
gonna look at someone that says, hey, I've been shooting for thirty years.
I'm gonna be like, oh, you don't know shit, right,
I'm gonna treat everyone equal, but like I'm gonna show them the drills that
I not that I think that I know you should be proficient at to know
what you're doing in a gunfight. And then you know, like those those
those people that come and thought that they were proficient, like they've been shooting
for thirty forty years, they know what they're doing, you know, just
after a two day class, they'll they'll both come like after the class,
come come up to me like like I am I had no idea like where
I should have been, you know, like on gun handling and my proficiency,
my speed, my accuracy, on targets. So yeah, I see
it every class. I mean, it's crazy. So yeah, like people
that would come and say that they can fight, you know, and then
you're actually fighting against someone who does it for real. It's gonna it's gonna
be a big eye over right, the same same thing, the same thing
I see in classes. Absolutely, so it's almost better. It sounds like
to go in there with a blank slate, or at least some mentality of
a blank slate. Yeah, yeah, yep, which which most people.
I mean, I think I'm fortunate to being an instructor coming from where I
came from. Like I said, people know my background. Even if they
even if they think they know better, they're still gonna listen, you know.
Like it's not like going to an instructor that has no gun fighting experience,
you know. So I I'm kind of lucky in that aspect um.
But still I would never even if someone even if someone was questioning everything,
I'm not, I don't know, I'm not one of those guys that are
gonna be like, hey, shut up and go to the corner, you
know, go to the corner. This is the way that I've done it.
That's kept me alive for fourteen deployments and over one thousand thousand hits because
the eight hundred were just at the unit that I had the other ones at
the SF So I have experienced, right, I mean, I've actually been
in hundreds of gunfights. Um. So it's I have the pedigree to help
me as an instructor for people to listen, you know. Which it would
be the same thing if you were going if you were going to go go
to a class with a boxer that had never been in the ring, like
he learned all his boxing from a book and from watching videos, right,
Like, You're not going to listen to him as much as someone who's who
has who's been in a hundred actual fights. Right, he has a sex
back. It's kind of the same thing with with with like the shooting industry.
Let me ask you this, I guess society wise, I would deem
it so important for cops to kind of see you because these guys are going
to get into these things. They're the ones are really probably gonna get into
it, and they get the least amount of training. Yep. And that's
the majority of my classes are elie classes or agencies good or military. I
mean if I do a ton of open Roman splitting classes, but the majority
of my classes aren't Elie and those are the I would say, those are
the ones that are smart enough to know that there's other there's other means out
there, especially on the swat side. A lot of squat teams think they
know better and the way that they've been trained, that's the way they they're
gonna do it. But the smart ones are like, hey, there's probably
other people out there that have done you know, been them a ton more
a gunfights that we've been into. Like, let's see a different method,
let's see a different way of training. Um, that'll hit me up.
And that's so it's it's awesome doing classes for those guys, Um, what
was how did you? How did you start off the question? Because there
was something I was gonna say about Ellie society. So then the other thing
you see, excuse them my bad habit um tobacco. Yeah, Um,
it's very it's very interesting to see. So you don't see a lot of
Ellie guys coming on their own dime like the open Roman classes, but the
guys that you do see, which is awesome, awesome that they finally realize
how important. It is. But most cops and this this is this is
not talking about SWAT, but like most be cops, they do it for
a job, like they do it for a paycheck, right, which is
horrible. Like they're not doing it because they want to do cops stuff.
They're doing it because it's a it's an easy paycheck. So not many of
them think that they're ever going to get in a gun fight. Well,
the I would say ninety five ninety eight percent of cops that come on their
own nime like you an open roma class. Are our officers that have actually
been in a gunfight. Oh really? Yeah? Right? Come because now
because once once that cop that that one cop that didn't take it serious,
never thought he was going to be in a gunfight, never trained, never,
you know, never got proficient with this fighter. Wrong that one time
he has to use it and he sucks, you know, and now he's
in the fear of his life. Now after that, they're the ones that
are now searching for for for courses or for classes or for training because they
know how easy they could have got fucking killed. Do you ever have you
know, it's it's unfortunate that that's what it takes but a lot of times
it takes people to you know, to be in a bad situation to actually
realize, holy crap, I need to actually spend some time like do them
you know, like practicis do you ever have to speak or no. I've
had I've had a couple actually called in two classes. Yea that was actually
like hey, Jack to actually like say they're you know, tell their experience.
Yeah, yeah, because it is. It's crazy of the people or
cops that come to like pay on their own dime, or guys that have
been in officer involved shootings. I think it'd be great for you for your
business as well as they haven't testimonials and little video recordings of them and you
can show you may think you may not need this, but that's what they
so many of them don't. They just never think it's going to be them
that has to you know, that has to do it. So that's scary
if that kind of a position too. If I mean they're they're just like
we were on deployment every day. Yeah, they get any any moment when
they're on duty or even even off duty, they could you know, they
could be in a gun fight. Like if I was a cop I'd be
training my ass off every day, like which which I did when when I
was at the unit, even though it was you know, we we were
back in the rear, not fighting, um, but I was like,
you're you're always You're always training for that next deployment, which which a cop
that's every day, you know, the next time. So yeah, it
is. It is crazy though, and it's a it's a it's an individual
thing, but it's also a department thing, you know, like on the
lack of training that they give them. And I get it's it's a budget
thing. Maybe if you talk about forcing your guys to get trained up like
they should, that would that would be ten fifteen classes a year. Well
if you look at trying to get every single officer in America trained up to
that standard with the round counts and the overtime, I mean it would it
would be billions and billions of dollars. Really. I get that they can't
do it, um, But if I was a cop on my own,
or I got my own, if if the department wasn't sending me to classes,
or they weren't letting me go to the range every every week, I'd
be doing on my own time, and and I did, like I like
when I was in rangement time and special Forces back then, and even even
now, they don't. They don't get to train as much as like the
unit, not even not even really so and as I would actually I would
actually spend my own money to buy my own AMMO and go to the range
by myself. Oh wow, because I always I always wanted to be prepared,
you know that. That was pretty nine eleven. That was that was
before anything was going on. But I'm never gonna go into a situation not
being the best. So if I have to spend my own money to do
that, I'm gonna do that. And I think that's what law enforcement agency
guys should be doing too. Unfortunately, let's see the large ones. I
mean you see some of these like in Chicago law you work, I mean,
you're gonna every time I've all the officers there, how many times have
you pulled your gun? How many times this week? And it's like,
holy crap already. But then I've interview guys from like No Offense to Fargo,
but out there and Fargo, how many times have you pulled your gun?
In my career? Yeah, one was like, oh, I can
see that right, because but LAPD, I'm looking at going how do you
not get training way above the normal on that Yep. I had a best
friend. He joined LAPD when we got out of high school. And I'll
never forget it was the very first night he say, I'm going out today
is my first ride with the FTO And I said, great, fun to
be saved. He calls me that night. I said, how did it
go? My very first call? You can tell he was really solemn,
and I knew something should happened. I was only nineteen at the time,
or twenty twenty one, twenty one. I said, what happened? He
goes, it went to an officer down call. That was my first call.
I said, no, kid, what happened? He goes? Then
I got shot at. I was like whoa, yeah. And he stayed
on for think nine years and then it left. But I mean it happened
like that first day. I mean, holy can't it was an hours.
I think it was good. It was a first call. It was like
an hour and a half into it. And for I mean and for the
right guy with the right mindset that had been like, oh, I'm staying
on this job forever. Yeah, and he did. Some people don't like
it. Yeah, he didn't like it enough. He stayed out. I
think his dad was a copse two brothers were cops. Everybody was a cop
in that family was like blue bloods and eventually, but he he didn't have
the passion for it. Yeah, he was out. I mean he didn't
go the whole twenty years either. No, it's amazing again, folks.
Range Works highly recommended gamat resolutions dot com. Check it out. See where
they're traveling too. He's everywhere, it seems like right now. Take advantage
of it too, because he maybe just sitting and sitting down Range Works in
the next couple of years and just being there. So if you want him
to come by or I never know, definitely check it out. Well.
I guess they're the last few minutes together. It feels like we've done two
podcasts. You could just split them in half. It was funny. I
talked to John for like an hour and a half, like, whoa,
yeah, I guess our last few minutes. It gets really interesting to talk.
It didn't go the way I thought it was going to go because we
went straight to mindset and really blew that up, which was kind of fun.
Really explored a lot of different areas. I don't know if you do
this again back to the athlete metaphors here, but they do a lot of
breathing. This is one thing I've noticed with athletes, especially in high pressure
situations of so then I getting shot at, but the bases are loaded,
you're making two million a year, you got pressure on you, or you're
getting ready to advance to the next level. Um, they recommend breathing.
They recommend visualization, imagery work right, think of yourself throwing that pitch,
breathe in this situation. Any of that apply here? Would it be good
to visualize things? He's already shaking his headphones, would be good to breathe?
Anything like that? Or no? The bit well I was I was
laughing because you're talking about breathing the visualization. I might be able to get
on board of that. But breathing to me called total real me. But
no, that's only me like that you know everyone else, But that was
that was never a factor for me, Like you know, like trying to
slow your heart right down, take that deep fucking breath or that tactle deep
breath, which I have said that before, Like the other people. But
to me, like especially on like shots, because a lot of people will
say, like breathe like breath control, which is a it's a fundamental in
the in the shooting fundamentals, um that has never been a factory to me,
like on target actually shooting dudes that I've never had even even come off,
like a two thousand full on sprint to target. I've never had to
like like when I was bringing the gun up to make that shot, like
actually have to slow my breathing down, like it just it just never.
It was never factory for me. But that's I think that's the beauty of
I think how it should be for all sports and for everyone. You do
what works for you, like like definitely try different things. But if if
if the best athletes in the world are saying this is what you need to
do and that doesn't work for you, well don't force it to work for
you, right, I mean, same thing with shooting. If someone's saying
you have to have breath control before you shoot, if that doesn't work for
you, well don't have breath control. I mean, that's I think the
difference between like I call bullshit through all things because I'm I'm I'm realistic and
then and I and definitely it's just a lot of things didn't apply to me
that most people would do. That was a little bit weird on that.
Well, again, I'm wondering if it's your unique skill set that made you
you were so comfortable with the gunfight that you didn't have to worry about bre
you thin because you weren't getting anxious, and that that maybe that was maybe
that was a factor too. But even even when I shoot, like like
practice shooting like that was a sniper and Saffy went through sniper school, I
was a sniper team and then breath controls like a big deal when it comes
to sniper shots. Not to me, like I never had to use breath
control shooting. So again, if that helps other people be better athletically in
games or better shooters, absolutely do it. But if it, if it
doesn't apply to you, don't just because someone else is saying do that,
don't try to make that work for you. Because everyone's everyone's different. That's
and I think that's not that would apply to every sport out there. And
definitely, when it comes to me, is my sport is in gunfighting,
Um, that's That's another big one I put out is you do what works
for you, and that if you truly want to become great at what you're
doing, you have to figure out what works for you, not what works
for fucking ten other people. What works for you and where that where?
And how you find that out is by practicing, by putting the time in.
You know, a lot of people, I think a lot of people
do what other people do because they don't want to put the time it.
So they want to read a book, they want to watch videos, and
they think, Okay, this this guy's the best of what he's doing,
and this is what he's saying to do. I'm gonna I'm gonna do exactly
what he's doing. That's not gonna work for everyone, but people are lazy.
People don't want to put the time in. Like if someone was saying
you want to be you want to be an Olympic marathon runner, and you
watched one video on this Olympic marathon running. He was telling you how to
run, and you were trying to make that work. Well, that's he's
got different feet, different legs, different arms, different torso, right,
you have to get out there and do a ship kind of marathons to figure
out what works for you. So the same thing, same thing with shooting.
So I'm big on that. It's never the easy answer. You have
to put the timing. And I think that was the difference between me and
others, is I put the time in. I've figured out what actually worked
for me. That's usually from a lot of the champion athletes too. Let
mean, and you have a metric too, I'm assuming if I'm correct getting
correctly from of course. But the metric you have is hitting the target.
That's a simple metric, just like a picture, hitting the target and then
you hit it better with breathing or without. Is that where you use the
visualization? You actually focus on having them imagine themselves draw, I fire.
I wouldn't say on like shooting dudes. Oh no, Like, I don't
even know if I've ever visualized. I just I'm not calling bullshit to that,
like I think that can happen. It's just it's funny. I was
just actually thinking about that today. Didn eight mile eight mile runs? Right?
Oh? So like and I'm sorry people that visualize, if they're running,
they're like, I have another five miles to go and they're visualizing another
five miles. That's gonna wear on their brain. That's good. They're they're
gonna want to quit, right, But if you visualize, you know,
you still have five more miles to go, and on that last quarter of
mile, you'll still have like you know, some gas left then you but
and that's all you're focus on, is that the last quarter of miles,
the fifth you know that five more miles that you have. I think it
helps you, like mindset wise, to stay in there. No, no,
instead of thinking of every step and every like okay, one more,
one more, just make it one more block and then another block. Now
you visualize on you still have five more miles. This is no big deal.
Oh no, no, I think that what they use visualization for,
like a basketball player shooting free throws, so they'll visualize let's say they shoots
the free throw, makes it. Then they're saying, we want you to
visualize how that looks and how that feels other time you do it. Yeah,
yeah, totally. I totally know what the actual visualizeization is. But
like I'm shooting, that never was a thing like getting off the helicopter in
me, like visualizing, Okay, I possibly have three threats in the compound
guns coming up, I'm gonna see their chest. No, that was never
that was that was never a thing for me. But again, if that's
if that's gonna help someone else, so yeah, yeah, yeah, actually
good. That thinks up a good question. Do you do that? You
said you have guys that pop up? Do you have also those little pop
up targets that we've seen in the movies with the thin pops up and then
you shoot at it? That really yeah, there, you're usually like turners,
so instead of popping up, they'll they'll be like this and then'll they'll
turn or they'll be like this and then all of a sudden they'll turn.
Yeah, So and that's that's really that's awesome, awesome training, really good,
is it? Or if you had to pop up target like that?
So if if you're standing there, um that it's it's not only for making
fast shots, but it's it's really for a targeting identification, so like like
seeing hands, seeing what they have, so you know, are they a
threat? Are they not a threat? So right when it comes right,
when it comes in, like it'll only stay up like this for like two
or three seconds, right, and as you are seeing that target, seeing
the threat, seeing the hostage and then or if it's a hostile rescue shot
or not, or if it's a threat target, you have to as the
guns coming up, you have to not only see their hands, does he
have a gun in his hand? Are you actually you know? Is he
a threat? And then once you identify it's a threat, well then you
guys see you know, is there a hosses next to him? Like where
am I going to shoot him? So like targets I got are awesome like
for training wise identifying threat or old threat. Yeah, that's really that's really
all they are. Like shooting one thing. But when you actually get into
further down the road of actually gun fighting, like you not only have to
be accurate fast, but you also have to be able to identify is that
a threat that I'm going to engage or not? I mean it's it's a
that's probably the separation of like like good shooters and and bad ass shooters,
right guys, Guys that can make that decision and that split second as the
guns coming up to actually see those hands and to Yep, he's a threat
and I'm going to shoot him in the chest. Hope, Wait, he's
got body arm round. Nope, not shooting the chest and shooting in the
face. That's all stuff that has to happen in a nano second. So
so yeah, once you once you get the shooting down, then it is
coming like the other thing that comes into play has actually been able identified threats
or now. I had two questions before I interviewed you today. Somebody,
Oh, can you ask him this? Can you ask him? One was
do you like those guns? I guess he saw it on Amazon and they
have guns where they have like a little red light. You quickly draw it
and then you pick the red light on it. He said, Can that
helpful while I'm sitting there watching a movie? Would that be helpful of train
on it? Is it the is it the like the dry fire? Yeah,
it's like a dry fire gun thing he had. Yeah, but you
put it on target and then you dry fire it and then it shows you
like like how accurate you were, how the gun moved, you know,
with your trigger pull. Let me see what his text said. That's where
it is. The guy, I don't. I don't actually use those,
but I would never That's a good training tool. Yes, any anything to
get you to do drive fire is a good tool. It's a dry fire
laser training thing. Yeah, okay, dope matter. You can get the
same thing out of that by just watching your front sight, so like,
or your red dot on target. So like, if you're red dots,
if you just have a red down in your pistol or in your rifle,
you put it up on target as you as you're screening the trigger. If
you watch that red dot stayed dead still on that on the spot of the
target that you're shooting, you know you have a perfect pull. Do you
say that red dot move just a little bit over the right, You probably
know your trigger pull yanked over the right. But that's it's it's the same
thing as what the what the laser does. Well. Then the other question,
actually it wasn't from him. The other question was he saw this I
guess on some I don't know what he saw it on. He doesn't mention.
I guess some cock shower something. They have a couple of guys that
were wearing a m The holster wasn't on the hip, it was on the
thigh. Have you seen those where they have a thing wrapped around the thigh.
I guess I wanted to know what your take on that is UM,
so they're they're definitely doable when you're on the range. So they're they're called
drop down holsters that go on your thigh, and we actually we use those
for years, UM when I went through OTC, we actually use that.
I use the drop leg holster when it comes to operational stuff like doing it
for real, Like if you're running, even if you're running twenty yards,
they got a full sprint. If you have that thing wrapped on your thigh,
it's gonna move like that pistol will be in the front of your leg.
It'll be you know, behind your leg. They don't stay stable there.
I would if you're if you're if whoever asked if you're, if you're
thinking about buying one, I would say absolutely not, Like, but you
can buy like the half drop down lung half drop down so they're still on
your belt. They come down a little bit a little bit further, so
it clears it if you're wearing body armor, like it's not gonna be up
against your armor, but they'll still they'll still stay on your belt. But
if you have a full drop down holster that's on your thigh, you're when
you're actually doing stuff for real, They're all over the place. So now
if you if you have to draw your holster or if you if you have
to drive your pistol and your hand comes down to where you think it usually
is, it's usually not gonna be there. Not a drop down holster.
Interesting for training wise, they're fine because usually most people shoot static like there's
there's they're not moving, so it's always going to be there. But when
you actually start moving around, those things move all over the place. Why
didn't they do it was a faster grab or what was the reason for that?
You don't have to lift up your elbow or I don't know if it's
a faster draw. So I mean usually with body armor, people don't want
the gun high up on their belt because now the body armor is either over
the over the pistol or is riding on the pistol, so it is hard
to get it out. So if you put a drop leg on, now
it's away from your body armor. You can get you can get pistol a
lot. That's where the half the half drop downs came in, so they're
not all the way down to your thigh, but they do clear body armor.
Um I still so I put my body armor higher up on my on
my torso, and I kept my pistol on my belt. It's it's just
screwed around with your with your kit, knowing you know again you have to
go the reins. You go outside and screw around with it. Um,
I get to where your your pistol's not gonna be moving around and then you
adjust your kit off of that. Good advice and good advice. Well,
I think that's about ready to wrap us up. We've been together for a
long time today. Yeah, it was a great conversation. I really enjoyed
it a lot because it took a different direction. I never really think about
him a whole lot ahead of times. I know, I asked one question
and these are rabbit holes. That's where it ended up today. Yeah,
so folks, again, if you want to learn more, you can look
at Gammut Resolutions gm UT or resolutions dot com, or you can look up
Killer Gammut Resolutions over on Instagram and if you're in Tampa, Florida, visit
Range Works w r X to check it out. So if you've never fired
a gun, ever shot a gun, just got a gun, just got
your CCW highly recommend you check it out. They're not toys, folks.
You definitely don't want to play around. Bob. I can't thank you enough
for doing this again. Yeah, let's do it again. Yeah. I
think I think your idea was great. We should bring John back, and
I think it'd be cool. Nayton and I think that'd be a lot crazy
time. John's characters as well, and they will be a fun time.
Yeah, talking about those stories. Thank you everyone, Yeah, thank you
everyone for listening, Share, subscribe, hit the ill like button, and
go check out Gamut Resolutions, folks,