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offensive coordinator. Let's talk about the latest and what the requirements will be for
the Bengals to fill that job. You are Locked On Bengals, your daily
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I'm Jake, Lets go, He's James Rapine. We are the lockdow On
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positive match up to one hundred dollars and James, We welcome in everyone who
makes us out there first. Listen, everyone who's in every Day You probably
caught the two episodes yesterday if you're in every Day's. We got the late
news that Brian Callahan will be coaching the Tennessee Titans, and the presumed successor,
Dan Pitcher, probably working his way through the offensive coordinator process potentially with
the number of teams. Think he's still the first choice for the Bengals,
but the Bengals do have a process to go through here, no doubt in
he is their first choice. I would be shocked if he wasn't. If
you want to call him the front runner, call him that because that's what
he is. But he has options and Dan Pitcher didn't know for sure that
Brian Callahan was going to get a head coaching job, and so he had
to do his due diligence like he did last year with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.
And it turns out that NFL teams are impressed when you not only help
Joe Burrow become the quarterback that he's become, but you helped Jake brown And
go four and three down the stretch and post historic numbers over his first four
starts and help the Bengals win three straight games. All of the above,
right, Dan Pitcher's it's risen. His profile has risen this year. He
was able to do with Burrow goes without saying, but obviously what he did
with Jake Browning. And I think Zach Taylor deserves credit too, because he
hasn't shied away whether it's Brian Callahan or Dan Pitcher when we ask about them,
when asked about, oh, how valuable is Brian or how valuable is
his pitch? He gives so much credit to those guys. And I don't
think it's lip service. I think it's how he genuinely feels. So now
that Brian is Nashville bound, and I'm sure that'll become official at some point
this week, and Hobe he announced and we'll see him in blue and all
of those things. Well, Dan Pitchers is the focus for this Bengals organization.
I have no doubt about that. But to your point, there is
a process. They're not just going to hire a pitcher. They'll conduct multiple
interviews. And at the same time, I still think Dan Pitchers it's his
job. I don't even want to say to lose because we can get into
the scenarios of how he does it become Bengals offensive coordinator, but he's certainly
the favorite for that job. I think thing is his job. To lose
is fair Like if he doesn't want it, that that counts as a way
he would lose it. I think that does it have to Does he lose
it if he picks somewhere else? I don't think that. I feel like
that. I mean, it's his job, right Like if he wants the
job, the Bengals I think want him to be the offensive coordinator. Zach
Taylor wants him to be the Bengals sacks offensive coordinator. I think that's the
point that I was trying to make in retorts there. Sure, what do
you think it comes down to then they stop. Some other interviews, we
can get into the process part, the behind the scenes. What's your biggest
thought here concern? Because I have one and I want to know if you
feel the same way. I think the two I think there's two, one
more than the other, one a little bit more nebulous than the other.
But one that is very obvious is money. The other one that I think
is also fairly obvious is responsibility in terms of specifically play calling, which has
been discussed quite a bit. We've talked about it on this podcast as well.
Does dam Pitcher want to call plays? Probably? Yes, probably,
if you're going to be an offensive coordinator in the NFL, you would prefer
to call plays given the option, But it's not necessarily as simple as just
that. You also have to think about the opportunity. After you've seen your
former boss Brian Callahan get a head coaching job, and your trajectory, what's
going to give you the best coach the best chance of becoming a head coach.
If that is Dan Pitcher's goal, what you would imagine it is for
many of these coaches in the NFL. The opportunity to be a head coach
of an NFL team is an ultimate lifelong dream, and that's where they want
to be. That's the top of the mountain. And then taking your team
to success as a head coach obviously after that. But those are the factors
that I have to imagine are in play for Dan Pitcher if it is as
simple as he's making a choice and has a few teams to choose from,
because we know now officially reported, we've hinted at it and talked about the
Patriots, certainly, but in addition to New Orleans who wants him for a
second interview, scheduled to fly to Vegas, scheduled to meet with the Patriots.
Probably by the time you've listened to this, he's met with the Patriots.
So there are other teams interested in the services, and the Bengals are
competing with some teams that don't necessarily offer the same you know, offensive personnel
in terms of they don't have Joe Burrow, but could offer other things to
try to pry them away. Yeah, it's interesting because the money factor,
it's simple. If Zach Taylor values him the way I think he does,
if Joe Burrow values him the way I think Joe Burrow does well, then
why why wouldn't the Bengals be willing to get close or figure out money wise
how to make it work. I think that part's easy right in the At
the same time, the Bengals are probably like, well, this is a
hot job. No, no, no, the money part shouldn't be a
factor. They have the money for it, and so money was mine and
that would be the one thing that to me cannot be the hang up.
We can get into the play calling in a second. But if I'm not
saying we found this out or we will find this out. But let's say
the Raiders offer a one point five million per whatever, and I don't know
if that's the case. I have no idea, But let's just say,
let's just say it's a million. Let's make it easier, and the Bengals
are at seven hundred thousand dollars, Well, then just go to the million
and get your guy. Because Zach loves them and Joe loves them, it's
pretty easy to me. And yet we'll see, right Jake, if that's
the hang up or not. There is a process, And like we talked
about, there are all these factors out there play calling. Is that a
big deal? For Dan Pitcher. Maybe we'll find out about that eventually,
maybe not. Maybe the Bengals will budge there, maybe not. But you're
right. If it's money and that's the difference, just do it. It
can't be. That's the one thing that isn't acceptable. I want to get
into the play calling part because I think that there's that's more interesting. Yeah,
because if Dan Pitcher is demanding play calling duties, I have some thoughts
on it, that's all. But curveball, we didn't plan this. I
pulled a clip from Joe Burrow of Joe Burrow discussing Dan Pitcher. Should we
toss to it? We shall? It seems like you've got a really good
relationship with a picture with Dan Pitcher. You guys have similar personalities. Is
that true? Yeah? I would say that, and I think that's why
we mess so well in the meeting room and on the sideline. We have
a great working relationship. And you know, really, I say this all
the time, but I couldn't ask for a better group of coaches for for
my skill set and for what I do. That's Joe Burrow after or ahead
of the AFC Champion Chip Game, January twenty seventh, last year ahead of
the game against the Chiefs. Clearly he's on board with Dan Pitcher and likes
how Pitcher has helped him develop. That's the quote that I referenced in our
bonus episode. But better to hear it, of course, from Joe Burrow
directly than to hear from me. I think we can all agree on that
without much debate. A lot more to talk about, I think around the
future of the Bengals OC position, some other coaches that some fans are excited
about the requirements that the Bengals have to meet in order to actually make a
higher at OC and potentially quarterbacks coach as well, So we can continue that
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one hundred dollars. Hi, I'm Jake from Lockdown. Think of all the
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state. James, there are some hot names on the OC market, so
we talk about those and some of the people that some fans in particular,
I think I've seen quite a bit of chatter on social media about in the
last twelve to twenty four hours since Brian Callahan was poached away by the Tennessee
Titans. Where do you want to go? Real quick? There's a scenario
where if I'm the Bengals, I tell Dan no if the numbers are the
same money wise, but he's demanding to call plays, I would say I'm
good and Zach, I'll ty call his bluff and also be comfortable with letting
Dan leave because Dan could be awesome. And this is nothing personal, but
the Bengals offensive coordinator job, regardless of who's calling plays, is one of
the best jobs in the league when it comes to getting a shot at becoming
a next head coach. That is a better job than the Raiders' offensive coordinator
job. I don't care if you're calling plays. I don't care if you're
setting schedules. I don't care what you're doing. I don't care if they
give you a Lambeau to drive to practice every day. It doesn't matter.
It's not as good of a job. And we heard why about oh three
minutes ago, Joe Burrow. We heard from him, right, Joe Burrow.
There's no Joe Burrow in New England. They might have a top pick
Okay, that's fine. It's still there's a lot of risk there. There's
a lot of risk. Move in your family to Vegas. Then Pitcher could
stay right here, assuming the money's the same enough, the money is different.
I'm not counting your pockets, I get it, But from a play
calling standpoint, there's as much risk as there is reward with that. Ask
ask the Eagles offensive coordinator Brian Johnson how quickly those things can change their stability
here if the money's the same. I mean, on the Bengals, I
wouldn't necessarily give Dan Pitcher the play calling duties unless Zach decides he wants to
do that anyways, But I wouldn't do that to keep him here. I
think that's too much. That's interesting. I wonder how much of a how
much they feel that way. I think that they may really value Pitcher and
may be willing to do that to keep him, just because it would mean
that there's this coach that they really liked, that they've developed, that they've
seen grow into the role he's in right now where he is a very in
demand offensive coordinator and or very in demand candidate for offensive coordinator jobs. I
guess we should say maybe that's something that they're willing to consider. Maybe not.
Maybe to your point, Zach Taylor says, I'm gonna do it.
This is a great job. I feel like I can replace with any number
of very valuable candidates. And the Bengals well go through an interview process we
keep alluding to, they're required to, in fact, and so maybe they
feel that way, maybe not. We'll find out, likely very soon about
some of these questions. I just think it's interesting, and yeah, there's
also the question of whether or not that would be good, whether or not
you know, you talk about potential growing pains as a play caller, and
on the other hand, you talk about potentially changing it up and some benefits
that could come from a different primary play caller. That there's two sides of
that, no doubt, and so I tried to true my words very carefully
there not to you, but just to be clear, I would not if
I'm Zach Taylor give up play calling to keep Dan Pitcher, if that's the
reason you're doing it. If the reason you're doing it is because you think
that it's going to make the team better and potentially raise the level of the
offense and help you become a better head coach and help the team because you
think Dan is just this awesome play call, like potential play call, like
if you think the upside is there, that's different than ah, you know,
Dan coming to the table saying, Hey, the Raiders are giving me
play calling duties and X amount of money. You're giving me X amount of
money, but I want play calling duties or I'm leaving. It's it's one
of Joe Burrows in this building song. That's all. That's all I said.
It's one of those things where pitcher has a leverage to ask for it,
right, And while that shouldn't You're right, shouldn't be bullied into it
or anything like that. If you're tailor and you're thinking about the upside like
you just said, and you've come to the conclusion that, oh yeah,
well, then I can you know, focus more on these other things instead
of having to think about play calling. That's a something that I can delegate
that will free me up to do other things better. And I think Picture
will be really good at it. It's just an opportunity to think about it,
right, It's an opportunity to entertain the possibility and then if you reach
that conclusion because that's the only way it happens. I don't think that that
would be just, you know, a blackmail kind of thing, like hey
man, I'm going to leave you don't give me play calling, right Like,
I don't think that would play I don't think that would be a healthy
environment for your OC head coach relationship going forward. But it's just you know,
you sit back and you think about it when presented with that argument,
and then maybe you come to that conclusion like you said, sure, yeah,
And it's an interesting dilemma for sure. And I think we both know
Zach Taylor doesn't want to lose both these guys and he lost one of them,
so and you know who else knows that. Damn Pitcher knows that.
So it's just an interesting dynamic. And it is business, the business side
of it. So we'll see there. But to your point, there are
a lot of names being thrown out there as far as is that where you
wanted to go the Brady scenario. Oh man, people on social media talking
about Joe Brady a couple of things. He's still the offensive coordinator of the
Bills, and I know he has that interim tag. But unless there's some
kind of sign of them wanting to move on from him and or Sean McDermott.
You think Joe Brady's going to just say, oh, well, I'm
the interim right now, but I'm gonna leave even though I have a real
shot to be the OC here and I'm going to be the OC here.
That's where he probably knows he's going to be to not call plays or even
call plays, let's say in Cincinnati. Like I just it is so pie
in the sky unrealistic. And it's because Brady is in Buffalo with Josh Allen.
This isn't the Raiders OC job. It's a real OC job, a
good job, and so I think unless there's a real shake up to that
staff in Buffalo, I don't think he'll be available. And it's not like
the Bengals could just request him right now because he is an OC so they
couldn't bring him in right now. And so I think it's a lot of
unrealistic thoughts, even though I do get it because Joe Brady's interesting, but
I just don't think he's available. I don't think he's available either. The
one interview request we've seen for Joe Brady was for a head coaching job.
The Atlanta Falcons wanted to talk to Joe Brady about being a head coach.
So if he becomes available and he becomes somebody who's just a free agent,
oh see, sure he should be one of the guys you interview. Absolutely,
but I agree with you that it doesn't seem like he is available.
And if he is available, it seems like he's available for head coaching jobs,
because that's the only thing that we've seen. So I don't know the
legality. I don't know if there's protections around interim tags or if it's something
you're allowed to request. I mean, I think you can request it.
The Bills could deny it. And that's the element of this is the Bills
could deny it. You can't deny a promotion, promotion correct from the promotion.
So I think it's unrealistic because and who knows, maybe the Bills are
fed up with Joe Brady after eight games or whatever it is. But unless
they fire McDermott, don't we think Brady's probably staying there makes sense to minded
head coach, and they elevated Joe Brady for a reason. Yeah, and
even if Brady were to become a free agent coach. He's going to be
looking for an opportunity to continue to call plays, I think, And there's
your element similar argument around Dan Pitcher, like I can work with Joe Burrow
again, but Zach's calling the plays or you know how important is that to
Joe Brady. People might be lined up to throw money at Joe Brady,
Like I said, he's getting He got a head coaching interview with the Atlanta
Falcons after the Atlanta Falcons talked to Bill Belichick for the second time. So
maybe it's just not going very well with Bill Belichick in Atlanta. But they're
looking they're casting a wide net in Atlanta. And if you're getting considered her
head coaching jobs, taking an OC job in study, you can't call plays
potentially, I don't know. So the Bengals explored if he's available, Yes,
is he available? I doubt it. That's and that's what I keep
coming back to. If he is available, interview him, even with Pitcher,
interview him. By the way, the Raiders, who are obviously interested
in Pitcher, they're interviewing former Bengals QB coach in Brown's OC Alex van Pelt
for the Raiders oc job this week. Loop Getsy is another name that's been
mentioned for that Raiders job, so the Raiders casting a pretty big net as
well. Let's discuss some of the procedural things that we mentioned that the Bengals
will have to interview multiple coaches, so let's dive into that coming up next.
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Think of all the amazing things in life that are expressions of you.
Your favorite football team, what you wear to the playoff watch party, that
song that you stream over and over to get you pumped up for the gym,
or the recommendations that you share with your friends on the top six comedy
podcasts that are best to listen to you on a long roadship, or even
your new haircut, which may or may not be an epic ball cut from
the nineties and hopefully is everything that makes you you makes all the difference.
State Farm believes insurance should work the same way your plane. Your coverage selections
can be personalized by you and the ability to choose the plan you want by
picking the options that fit you, like choosing to bundle your home and auto
policies is what the State Farm Personal Price Plan is all about. Getting the
coverage you want at an affordable price, just for you. Like a good
neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary
by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer availability, amount of discounts
and savings, and eligibility vary by state. The raiders going after Marvin Lewis's
hold Bengals coaches. Marvin Lewis hired Alex Van Pelt in twenty eighteen coach.
I think he's a coach, yeah, I mean we were pretty happy about
that hire for the Bengals back in twenty eighteen. It was exactly for a
little bit. Zach kept him for a year before he was hired away by
the Cleveland Browns to be their offensive coordinator or was the quarterbacks coach there?
First offensive coordinator was initial higher for Kevin Sefanski and Cleveland so Raiders looking at
some of Marvin's old friends. Marvin Lewis of course said to be part of
that staff with Antonio Pierce. But the Bengals have some requirements to meet before
they are allowed to make an official hire at offensive coordinator. This would also
apply to quarterbacks coach, I believe, But for coordinator positions in the NFL,
the Rooney Rule does apply. It was expanded in twenty twenty one and
potentially further since then. If you look at the operations website on the NFL
about the Rooney rule, it says that for coordinator jobs, one external minority
candidate must be interviewed before a team is allowed to make a hire at coordinator.
I think that's been expanded to two. It appears that that's been expanded
to two. Kelsey Conway has some good reporting around that those interviews can be
virtual, they can be in person, So the Bengals could be as we're
recording this episode, James conducting a couple of virtual interviews with some external candidates
to meet that requirement, or because there are some people that Zach Taylor knows
and is interested in as offensive coordinator options. The Rooney rule is in place,
the Bengals must meet that requirement. We can talk about the Rooney Rule
and its faults and its shortcomings if we wanted to, I personally, just
to get off my soapbox here, if I can think it's a flawed rule.
It leads to sham interviews. Hopefully that's not the case with the Bengals
here, but we know that Dan Pitcher is their top priority. We've talked
about that a lot, and so hopefully any interviews they have with external candidates
are legitimate and maybe one sways them. But that is a requirement that the
Bengals must meet before they announced an official offensive coordinator of the future. One
coordinator, and I hope it's a real interview. I would reach out to
Brian Johnson, the loldego ZOC. That would be some that would be on
my list. Now I look just to see if there were any ties to
Zach and they're not. And that's a factor certainly another one. And I'm
not even listing names for a rooty rule. I just mean potential targets because
you just never know. Zach Robinson continues to get interviews and quarterbacks coach of
the Rams was in LA when Zach was as well. I think those are
two names. And then the other one in this again has nothing to do
with the rule, but I want to mention Troy Walters. I think Troy
Walters. Let's say Dan Pitcher specifically wants to go to Las Vegas because he
likes the slots right because it's sure as hell asn't because of quarterback play.
Well, if he does that, Troy Walters would be on my list,
and pretty high on my list. I think Troy gets it. So I
think the Bengals there are candidates not named Joe Brady, not named Dan Pitcher
that they should look at, or will look at, or at least will
discuss and to your point, they will conduct a couple of interviews as well
as go look at the players coaches that are in the current coaching carousel.
That there are some connections with Zach Taylor historically and that's a good place to
find potential candidates a lot of the time. And Zach told Dave Lapham on
Dave Laphams Show that there's some guys he knows that he's potentially going to want
to talk to, some guys he wants to get to know, and they
will have to go through those interview processes. One more quick thing as far
as Dan Pitcher, there are two reasons why he could still take the interviews
even if things are going well Bengals wives, and he thinks the first one
pretty simple. They still have to do business as usual and make sure that
they meet the requirements of the Rooney Roll, and they do want to look
elsewhere. So even if they do think that they're going to get an agreement
in place officially with Dan Pitcher, maybe that's something that happens after he interviews
with the Patriots today or interviews with the Raiders and flies to Vegas. The
other part of this, if you'r Dan Pitcher and you're thinking about becoming a
head coach next offseason or the off season after taking these cross country flights,
going on in formal interviews. That doesn't hurt you, No, Like that
experience is valuable. So I think there are a couple of reasons why he
might do that. Valuable experience, valuable connections. Even if it's not OC
this year, maybe it's head coach next year for the New Orleans I don't
know, New Orleans Saints, Las Vegas Raiders. Probably not the New England
Patriots. Probably not the Raiders either, but it is the Raiders. But
hey, the Saints. Do you know something, Jake oh Man, I
know nothing to be abundantly clear about this, but for a number of reasons,
Maybe the Bengals are blown away in one of their external candidate interviews that
they conduct because they will have to do at least two. Maybe the Bengals
are blown away in some other capacity. But I do believe that their top
priority is retaining the services of Dan Pitcher based on the things that we understand
right now. Troy Walter is by the way, just in case you're wondering,
does not deify any Runey Rule requirements because he is an internal candidate.
The Runey Rule requirements specifically specify external minority candidates. So we'll see if we
get some reporting around interviews being completed potentially with the Bengals. You might see
some of those between the time of our recording episodes. We're recording this,
we're going to publish it. Then you might see some reports of Bengals OC
interviews being completed before you hear from us next. But we will have you
covered as soon as possible after the Bengals make some moves here on the OC
front and we get some more clarity around what will be going on with that
position for the Bengals going forward, And until then, we appreciate you listening
to this episode of the Lockdown Bengals podcast. Who Day, and have a
good one.