WEBVTT 1 00:00:07.040 --> 00:00:17.320 Ready June twenty five, twenty twenty four, allegedly according to that thing we 2 00:00:17.359 --> 00:00:21.760 call a calendar, and it is a tearesday Tuesday. Well, it's just 3 00:00:21.879 --> 00:00:25.800 after nine pm Eastern in that place we used to call America, and I'm 4 00:00:25.839 --> 00:00:29.519 going live a little late and even later than that, because it's actually about 5 00:00:29.519 --> 00:00:33.759 five after nine. But anyway, no matter, it's gonna be worth it. 6 00:00:33.920 --> 00:00:36.439 I assure you, who do I have with me tonight, Well, 7 00:00:36.520 --> 00:00:39.799 Larry Hancock has already joined me. If you don't know who Larry Hancock is, 8 00:00:40.840 --> 00:00:46.399 welcome to the world of literature, Welcome to the O'Kelly effect, Welcome 9 00:00:46.439 --> 00:00:51.079 to the jfk assassination. Although that's not going to be tonight's topic, you 10 00:00:51.119 --> 00:00:54.439 should know who Larry Hancock is. If you don't, you have a treat 11 00:00:54.479 --> 00:00:59.280 for yourself later. Go to Larry dash Handcock dot com check out his work 12 00:00:59.320 --> 00:01:02.640 his blog. Multiple books that take up a lot of space on my shelf, 13 00:01:03.200 --> 00:01:07.599 not because I need stuff to take up space, but because every one 14 00:01:07.640 --> 00:01:11.719 of them is valuable. And what we're gonna talk about tonight is probably one 15 00:01:11.719 --> 00:01:18.640 of the least written about topics in Larry's arsenal. And we're gonna have Stu 16 00:01:18.719 --> 00:01:23.400 Wexler join us in a few minutes to discuss some stuff that I know I 17 00:01:23.439 --> 00:01:30.200 have not covered on this show before. Regarding the rfk assassination nineteen sixty eight, 18 00:01:30.560 --> 00:01:36.400 what happened at the Ambassador Hotel, Special Unit Senator that was the official 19 00:01:36.480 --> 00:01:42.879 investigation. I think, Hey, they almost dragged that into the HSCA, 20 00:01:44.200 --> 00:01:49.599 I think. And Sir Hans, Sir Hans still sits in prison, even 21 00:01:49.640 --> 00:01:55.400 though he was paroled in the Governor of California said, nope, that's happened. 22 00:01:55.439 --> 00:01:59.000 You know. Funny thing think about it. How many years has it 23 00:01:59.079 --> 00:02:05.840 now been? Well more than fifty five, right, and more than fifty 24 00:02:05.879 --> 00:02:12.159 five years later, Sarah and Zaran's still in prison. Anyway, a lot 25 00:02:12.199 --> 00:02:15.280 we could say there, but that again is not gonna be exactly tonight's topic, 26 00:02:15.319 --> 00:02:20.919 although the rfk assassination will be discussed. Larry, how are you this 27 00:02:21.000 --> 00:02:23.639 evening? Oh, I'm good, I'm ready ready to chat. We haven't 28 00:02:23.680 --> 00:02:29.360 talked about this for a long time, right, you like the little you 29 00:02:29.439 --> 00:02:32.759 like the little broken teasers there where. It's like, we could talk about 30 00:02:32.800 --> 00:02:37.479 this and you know what, I'm gonna just dispel a few things if you're 31 00:02:37.520 --> 00:02:44.000 waiting for uh, mind control, if you're waiting for mk Ultra discussion. 32 00:02:44.879 --> 00:02:49.080 If you're it's it's not gonna happen. You know what we're gonna discuss though, 33 00:02:49.120 --> 00:02:53.000 a couple of interesting points, real interesting points, as a matter of 34 00:02:53.080 --> 00:02:57.759 fact, the biggest points that they don't seem to push forward unless you're well 35 00:02:57.879 --> 00:03:00.639 certain authors. And one of them put out a terrible book, another one 36 00:03:00.680 --> 00:03:04.719 put out a book that was pretty good. And every once in a while 37 00:03:04.719 --> 00:03:08.439 you get a documentary on this that always mentions the stuff we're going to talk 38 00:03:08.439 --> 00:03:14.120 about tonight. So I'll leave it at that for now. But Larry, 39 00:03:14.919 --> 00:03:17.159 before we even get there, I mean, how about let's just say there's 40 00:03:17.159 --> 00:03:22.759 somebody out there who's not certain what I'm talking about. Rfk Oh, Yeah, 41 00:03:22.800 --> 00:03:25.360 I do remember he was killed in nineteen sixty eight. Wasn't he running 42 00:03:25.360 --> 00:03:30.479 for president? He already mentioned the ambassador Hotel. Oh, the LAPD's involved. 43 00:03:30.680 --> 00:03:35.360 Well, they're a you know, an organization beyond approach at all times. 44 00:03:35.439 --> 00:03:40.319 Right, I'm sorry, couldn't take my tongue out of my cheek for 45 00:03:40.360 --> 00:03:45.319 that one. But Larry, help us out. Let's just say you're somebody 46 00:03:45.560 --> 00:03:50.960 who was casually aware that. Indeed, there was some dispute over what happened 47 00:03:51.639 --> 00:03:57.199 to Robert Francis Kennedy. Francis was his middle name. I believe it wasn't 48 00:03:57.199 --> 00:04:00.400 Fitzgerald, like John F. Kennedy say middle in this not the same name. 49 00:04:01.680 --> 00:04:05.879 His son is out there attempting to run for president. Now he had 50 00:04:05.919 --> 00:04:11.039 many kids, but again not the point of tonight's discussion. How would you 51 00:04:11.919 --> 00:04:17.000 take somebody a little further than just the bare bones the used to be Encyclopedia 52 00:04:17.040 --> 00:04:21.600 Britannica version of this. How would you just begin to bring people into it 53 00:04:21.639 --> 00:04:25.240 and then we're going to take a short break and grab Stu Wexler to come 54 00:04:25.279 --> 00:04:29.480 back live. But how would you do that? Larry? I think the 55 00:04:29.639 --> 00:04:33.240 place to start is that anybody it's even looked at this briefly or seen it 56 00:04:33.319 --> 00:04:39.839 discussed and within the JFK community seems to tend to view it as just an 57 00:04:39.879 --> 00:04:46.439 extension of the President Kenny's assassination. President Kennedy was assassinated, his brother was 58 00:04:46.480 --> 00:04:53.959 assassinated. It's almost like it's a side note. It's often late. It's 59 00:04:54.040 --> 00:04:57.560 kind of like, well, they must be out their brothers. RK was 60 00:04:57.600 --> 00:05:00.720 going to investigate his brother's death. They have to be linked, and then 61 00:05:00.759 --> 00:05:06.639 they just kind of pass on over it. And the truth is that the 62 00:05:06.680 --> 00:05:13.439 assassination of Robert Kennedy was quite different, and I think that's something we need 63 00:05:13.480 --> 00:05:18.279 to talk about. It's different in the way that it was investigated, it's 64 00:05:18.360 --> 00:05:25.480 different in the way that it was carried out, entirely different than what we 65 00:05:25.519 --> 00:05:29.480 see in Dallas in many respects, which kind of gives you a clue that 66 00:05:29.519 --> 00:05:33.639 it shouldn't just be brushed over. It has to be examined on its own. 67 00:05:33.680 --> 00:05:39.160 You can't take it as an element of continuity, which means you have 68 00:05:39.199 --> 00:05:43.720 to dig into it. And I think most people have kind of treated that 69 00:05:43.759 --> 00:05:48.839 as too much work because there is, you know, a minuscule amount written 70 00:05:49.560 --> 00:05:55.560 on this one, on the RFK assassination compared to JFK. You just can't 71 00:05:55.879 --> 00:06:01.120 You can't just go online and find one hundred Facebook videos. You can't find 72 00:06:01.199 --> 00:06:08.079 five hundred books and kind of take it all in. Well, can ahead 73 00:06:08.360 --> 00:06:11.040 some digging if you want the facts on this one. Yeah, let me 74 00:06:11.079 --> 00:06:14.000 put a pin in this with you just for a second, because there's a 75 00:06:14.000 --> 00:06:17.439 couple of things continuity wise we must recognize. And one of the key elements 76 00:06:17.519 --> 00:06:24.240 is you don't have the twenty four hour news cycle emerging from Bobby Kennedy's murder, 77 00:06:24.639 --> 00:06:29.120 not the way you did when JFK was murdered. Okay, you have 78 00:06:29.199 --> 00:06:32.519 to concede that point. We don't have all the major networks now turning over 79 00:06:32.839 --> 00:06:39.160 their coverage for days on end to Bobby Kennedy, do we Some people would 80 00:06:39.160 --> 00:06:42.040 say, well, that's because he wasn't the president. Okay. On the 81 00:06:42.079 --> 00:06:46.800 other hand, we also have a circumstance here where it gets molded into this 82 00:06:46.879 --> 00:06:54.040 other thing where it's the tragedy of the Kennedy family. It's the bad luck 83 00:06:54.120 --> 00:07:00.920 brothers. You know. Look, after all, right, John F. 84 00:07:00.000 --> 00:07:04.000 Kennedy's older brother was killed World War Two. He was really the heir apparent, 85 00:07:04.040 --> 00:07:06.879 the guy that they were going to put the future of the family into 86 00:07:06.879 --> 00:07:11.759 his hands, et cetera, et cetera. Joe Kennedy junior, you have 87 00:07:11.839 --> 00:07:15.000 that element, you have Okay? Then JFK is killed, Okay, Then 88 00:07:15.040 --> 00:07:17.000 Bobby Kennedy's killed. And oh, by the way, Ted Kennedy and Chap 89 00:07:16.959 --> 00:07:21.120 Equittick and what in the world is happening? Here is the world out to 90 00:07:21.120 --> 00:07:26.560 get the Kennedy's are they you know, how many books, how many films 91 00:07:26.639 --> 00:07:31.160 the Kennedy Curse. Now, Hollywood went into the Bobby Kennedy subject a bit. 92 00:07:31.560 --> 00:07:35.759 There's been quite a few films, not nearly as many documentaries. That's 93 00:07:35.759 --> 00:07:41.920 impossible. They couldn't possibly have made as many documentaries about this as they did 94 00:07:41.959 --> 00:07:45.160 about his brother's murder. But Hollywood went after it. I mean, we 95 00:07:45.199 --> 00:07:48.040 had the movie Bobby, we had there was another thing about the hotel, 96 00:07:48.160 --> 00:07:51.879 right, the staff there was you know, there's been a few other mentions 97 00:07:51.920 --> 00:07:57.160 of it, and other films have referenced it and folded it into their narrative 98 00:07:57.160 --> 00:08:03.240 for nineteen sixty eight. So Hollywood does grab hold of it. It doesn't 99 00:08:03.319 --> 00:08:07.920 have the same level of interest, It doesn't have the same level of documentary. 100 00:08:07.920 --> 00:08:13.519 It doesn't have the same level of archival footage preserved by all the networks 101 00:08:13.600 --> 00:08:18.000 either, because again we don't have four or five straight days of coverage. 102 00:08:18.120 --> 00:08:24.720 Also, we have a live alleged assassin who actually went to court and was 103 00:08:24.759 --> 00:08:31.839 convicted. These are all notable differences and also part of the continuity that has 104 00:08:31.879 --> 00:08:35.960 gone on with time where people have sort of rolled it into the mixed narrative. 105 00:08:37.000 --> 00:08:41.679 But I think we need to extract it from that and recognize it for 106 00:08:41.720 --> 00:08:45.840 what it is. It is a very different circumstance, even though they were 107 00:08:45.919 --> 00:08:48.120 brothers, even though he is the former attorney general, and even though he's 108 00:08:48.200 --> 00:08:56.320 running for the political office that his brother lost, well, you know by 109 00:08:56.320 --> 00:09:01.759 bullet by gunplay. Are all these points or you think I'm off base here, 110 00:09:01.919 --> 00:09:07.879 we haven't had. The media coverage was different unless you wear in LA. 111 00:09:09.559 --> 00:09:13.360 I mean, there was a huge amount of onspot media coverage in LA. 112 00:09:13.519 --> 00:09:16.840 And actually, I think one of the things that becomes clear is the 113 00:09:16.919 --> 00:09:22.159 fact that there was a conspiracy, there were more people involved, was probably 114 00:09:22.240 --> 00:09:26.559 quite clear if you were in Los Angeles, not if you were in the 115 00:09:26.559 --> 00:09:31.519 rest of the country. So it wasn't a national media story as with his 116 00:09:31.600 --> 00:09:35.759 brother, It was local media story. One of the reasons is the local 117 00:09:35.840 --> 00:09:41.120 media story is makes it quite different than Dallas is you had a ton of 118 00:09:41.159 --> 00:09:46.399 witnesses come forth putting Sir hand together with other people before the assassination. That 119 00:09:46.519 --> 00:09:54.720 added a whole new element to it and actually forced a serious LAPD investigation, 120 00:09:56.240 --> 00:10:01.720 which you don't find when you have a prosecutor a DA with the guy in 121 00:10:01.799 --> 00:10:05.679 custody. You know, It's kind of like whenever we see a district attorney 122 00:10:05.799 --> 00:10:11.039 with someone like sir Hand and custody wanting to go to trial and make a 123 00:10:11.320 --> 00:10:16.840 quick, clear victory to help the reputation, it's usually over, it's done, 124 00:10:16.200 --> 00:10:22.919 and we're through. The interesting thing is that in the rfk assass nation 125 00:10:24.519 --> 00:10:30.519 there were so many witnesses and so many leads that Special Unit Senator continued, 126 00:10:31.039 --> 00:10:37.240 was forced to continuous work almost independent of the DA. It's like you had 127 00:10:37.279 --> 00:10:41.240 two things going on. A prosecution that was being guilt against just sir Hand, 128 00:10:41.799 --> 00:10:48.320 and a police investigation of all these other leads that looked like conspiracy. 129 00:10:48.879 --> 00:10:52.039 Well there you go on the scene. Totally different. Even the attitude of 130 00:10:52.120 --> 00:10:54.919 law enforcement, they had a different idea. In fact, people uttering out 131 00:10:54.960 --> 00:10:58.720 loud, this will not be like Dallas and speaking of this will not be 132 00:10:58.840 --> 00:11:03.840 like it was just a moment ago. Stu Wexler has joined us, So 133 00:11:03.000 --> 00:11:07.120 pleasure to be with you guys. Sorry a bit laid here, No problem 134 00:11:07.159 --> 00:11:11.759 at all, Stu. Look so far all we've done is basically lay out, 135 00:11:11.879 --> 00:11:16.559 Look, this is not the jfk assassination. You know, what would 136 00:11:16.559 --> 00:11:22.080 you tell people that maybe have a passing interest who have seen this because it 137 00:11:22.120 --> 00:11:28.200 doesn't have the same amount of archival footage Let's say the JFK assassination does. 138 00:11:28.559 --> 00:11:33.679 It doesn't have the same amount of uh, you know, documentary films made. 139 00:11:35.080 --> 00:11:37.679 Hollywood has treated it a few times, but it's definitely been treated differently. 140 00:11:39.919 --> 00:11:43.519 But it's certainly a different circumstance, even though it's the same family and 141 00:11:43.600 --> 00:11:50.039 often folded into the Kennedy curse. What would you bridge this into, Stu, 142 00:11:50.159 --> 00:11:54.919 if you don't mind before we get into some details, well I would. 143 00:11:54.080 --> 00:11:58.519 I would say, if I were to frame this and I try telling 144 00:11:58.559 --> 00:12:01.679 this to folks, on the surface, you would think that the RFK assassination 145 00:12:01.840 --> 00:12:07.960 is the most open and shut of all three major political assassinations, or if 146 00:12:07.960 --> 00:12:13.879 you want to go four with with Malcolm X in the nineteen sixties, and 147 00:12:15.039 --> 00:12:22.159 I would argue to you that of the of the three or four major ones, 148 00:12:22.120 --> 00:12:28.639 it is the most clear cut example of one where the official version is 149 00:12:28.679 --> 00:12:31.960 not true. Keep in mind, Larry and I both think that the others 150 00:12:31.960 --> 00:12:35.840 are not true either. But if you were to say to me, if 151 00:12:35.279 --> 00:12:39.879 God were to say to me, only one of them, ste is not 152 00:12:41.639 --> 00:12:43.919 what the official version said it was, And you have to say which one 153 00:12:45.639 --> 00:12:50.000 it is. That one for me would be RFK, even though I'm convinced 154 00:12:50.039 --> 00:12:52.240 on the others. So that should give you an idea. The other thing 155 00:12:52.399 --> 00:12:58.960 is that the way I've said it to folks, as bad as the investment 156 00:13:00.000 --> 00:13:05.919 mitigations are sloppy, deliberate, whatever you want to call it, the investigations 157 00:13:05.960 --> 00:13:13.240 are of some of these other major political crimes. The LAPD makes the Dallas 158 00:13:13.240 --> 00:13:20.080 police in nineteen sixty three look like Scotland yard, right, And so then 159 00:13:20.120 --> 00:13:24.759 the third thing, it's probably the one that we could do the most about. 160 00:13:26.639 --> 00:13:35.080 And so that's what I would say to people is the most interesting observations 161 00:13:35.120 --> 00:13:39.799 I would make to people who dive into the political assassinations of the nineteen sixties. 162 00:13:41.159 --> 00:13:43.200 And sadly, here's the other thing. I mean, Look, you 163 00:13:43.200 --> 00:13:46.960 have the release of people in the Malcolm X murder, you have the parole, 164 00:13:46.120 --> 00:13:50.720 but then the denial of parole with Sir Hans Sirhan, you have the 165 00:13:50.480 --> 00:13:54.039 you know, the second official explanation from the government. Oh Lee, Harvey 166 00:13:54.039 --> 00:13:58.840 Oswald's still involved, but very likely there was a conspiracy. And you could 167 00:14:00.120 --> 00:14:03.279 can this even better by saying, look, we can go from Medgar Evers 168 00:14:03.320 --> 00:14:09.039 all the way to the various assassinations of black panthers and talk about that entire 169 00:14:09.360 --> 00:14:13.639 era of assassination, and still you're almost having to agree with what Vincent Bugliosi 170 00:14:13.639 --> 00:14:18.080 said years ago. I know that scares some people when I say that, 171 00:14:18.159 --> 00:14:22.000 but he said that it was you know, like I forget how he put 172 00:14:22.000 --> 00:14:26.360 it exactly, but it was like, this is so ridiculous. It makes 173 00:14:26.440 --> 00:14:33.639 you know, other conspiracies look like a single marijuana joint arrest or something like 174 00:14:33.679 --> 00:14:37.440 that. He said, again, I don't put any stock in Bugliosi or 175 00:14:37.440 --> 00:14:41.000 his character, especially after digging into him deeply. But we'll leave all that 176 00:14:41.120 --> 00:14:48.279 alone today. Let's get into the greater context here and why this is so 177 00:14:48.279 --> 00:14:52.639 so different. Could we actually do something about it? We still have an 178 00:14:52.679 --> 00:14:58.840 alleged assassin alive, which is kind of shocking, and in custody, which 179 00:15:00.440 --> 00:15:05.960 is also shocking everybody else. James Earl Ray right, Like I said, 180 00:15:05.039 --> 00:15:09.440 the two guys got let loose from the Malcolm X thing. After that documentary, 181 00:15:09.000 --> 00:15:13.200 you got Oswald. You know he died on Sunday, you know, 182 00:15:13.320 --> 00:15:20.159 after the Friday event. This is a very different situation. So where should 183 00:15:20.159 --> 00:15:24.879 we begin with two major differences that I want to cover tonight, Larry. 184 00:15:24.919 --> 00:15:28.720 I want you to sort of frame this because I have two areas of interest 185 00:15:28.720 --> 00:15:33.720 that I discussed with you, and we looked at some material that I don't 186 00:15:33.720 --> 00:15:39.039 think you guys have made available completely to the public, but I appreciate having 187 00:15:39.039 --> 00:15:45.879 a look at that stuff. It's fascinating. And where should we begin. 188 00:15:46.639 --> 00:15:48.879 One of the things that people fixate on in any of the documentaries that do 189 00:15:50.000 --> 00:15:54.600 exist in all the conspiracy, whether it's lore, or it is a good 190 00:15:54.639 --> 00:16:00.519 investigation, or it is fairly decent speculation. Even we could start with one 191 00:16:00.519 --> 00:16:06.960 of the key figures, or we could go into exactly what the nature of 192 00:16:07.039 --> 00:16:11.960 the investigation was. It's very different from the other investigations. I mean, 193 00:16:11.039 --> 00:16:15.159 Stu laid it out. The way that he did sounds a little different than 194 00:16:15.159 --> 00:16:18.039 the way you might lay it out, Larry. But where should we begin 195 00:16:18.159 --> 00:16:22.519 with these two major areas that we're going to cover tonight. Well, I 196 00:16:22.519 --> 00:16:25.919 think you get a handle on it, Chuck. One of there are two 197 00:16:26.360 --> 00:16:30.919 big things that happened, and happened almost separately. One was the prosecution of 198 00:16:30.960 --> 00:16:37.000 Sir hann Okay and the evidence that was entered into court and accepted by Sir 199 00:16:37.039 --> 00:16:44.759 Han's defense lawyer with no challenge if someone devoted the time to look at that 200 00:16:44.879 --> 00:16:49.960 evidence. And it's hard to do because unlike the JFK, you know, 201 00:16:51.120 --> 00:16:55.799 this does not reside at the National Archives. This is a criminal case in 202 00:16:55.840 --> 00:17:00.200 California. It gets locked up within the system. Unless you had access to 203 00:17:02.120 --> 00:17:06.960 were Sir Han's lawyer or his researcher. He couldn't even get to it for 204 00:17:07.079 --> 00:17:12.839 decades, so the actual evidence itself remained locked up. The evidence by itself 205 00:17:14.079 --> 00:17:21.839 clearly shows that Sir Hand did not kill even though he shot at Robert Kennedy, 206 00:17:22.240 --> 00:17:27.440 did not kill him, and from that standpoint, proves conspiracy. But 207 00:17:27.799 --> 00:17:33.559 pursuing that could take us many many shows. So what I would refer to 208 00:17:33.559 --> 00:17:38.480 anyone that's interested in it That evidence has all been reviewed, collected, and 209 00:17:38.640 --> 00:17:45.359 is available in a fantastic study of the crime scene by John Hunt. It's 210 00:17:45.400 --> 00:17:51.200 available, The book is available, it's title buried in plain sight, And 211 00:17:51.240 --> 00:17:56.440 if somebody really wants to understand the crime scene and the evidence, that's the 212 00:17:56.480 --> 00:18:00.240 place to go. I would suggest what we talk about this evening is the 213 00:18:00.279 --> 00:18:07.400 other side of the coin, not the prosecution of Sirhan how that was poorly 214 00:18:07.519 --> 00:18:11.559 done, how its defense was poorly done, and the evidence itself, but 215 00:18:11.720 --> 00:18:17.359 rather talk about the police investigation, because the police investigation was also locked up 216 00:18:17.400 --> 00:18:23.319 separately in the SUSS files, the Especial Unit Senator files. We have access 217 00:18:23.359 --> 00:18:26.920 to all that now, but it wasn't available, and in fact, things 218 00:18:27.039 --> 00:18:33.200 got so bad that actually police started destroying things. But I would think the 219 00:18:33.240 --> 00:18:37.440 best way we could parse it out is to leave the crime scene to itself, 220 00:18:37.519 --> 00:18:42.880 because that is documented in John Hunt's work, and we could focus on 221 00:18:44.079 --> 00:18:49.480 the act itself, the witnesses, the reports, what the FBI didn't did 222 00:18:49.640 --> 00:18:56.279 do, what the LAPD didn't and didn't do with the witnesses it had, 223 00:18:56.680 --> 00:19:03.119 and why Essentially, in the end, the LAPD had a case for conspiracy, 224 00:19:03.480 --> 00:19:08.240 but because they couldn't find the people involved, they essentially, for political 225 00:19:08.279 --> 00:19:12.279 purposes, wrote it off and closed it down. I think that would be 226 00:19:12.759 --> 00:19:17.920 I think that would be something better for us to discuss because Stu and I 227 00:19:17.920 --> 00:19:21.440 have both looked into that. Both looked into where the leads took the police. 228 00:19:21.640 --> 00:19:26.920 Yes, and they took them to very specific people, and the police 229 00:19:26.000 --> 00:19:33.039 actually up to a point in time when they couldn't solve it documented it quite 230 00:19:33.119 --> 00:19:37.640 well and we can see that now. And the horrible thing about it is 231 00:19:37.720 --> 00:19:41.519 you can see where it was going and how it was going, and then 232 00:19:41.559 --> 00:19:45.920 you can see it crash and burn right now. My understanding is that they 233 00:19:45.960 --> 00:19:48.599 did consider this for the HSCA. I know I've mentioned that flippantly at the 234 00:19:48.640 --> 00:19:52.000 beginning of the show, but there was a consideration on one point that they 235 00:19:52.000 --> 00:19:56.640 were going to look into the RK assassination as well. Wasn't that the case, 236 00:19:56.720 --> 00:20:00.759 Larry? Yeah, it was hope that there was enough money in time 237 00:20:00.799 --> 00:20:04.119 to address all of them, but there wasn't. But there was not. 238 00:20:04.519 --> 00:20:11.359 And obviously the JFK assassination took presidents and when they got involved in that and 239 00:20:11.680 --> 00:20:15.599 saw what was really involved, you know, the body of work that was 240 00:20:15.640 --> 00:20:18.519 involved, it was clear there was never going to be time, right, 241 00:20:19.720 --> 00:20:22.880 But it was part of the consideration. It just didn't get done. But 242 00:20:23.000 --> 00:20:26.880 here we go. That might be the theme here. So should I go 243 00:20:26.920 --> 00:20:30.880 to Stu next on this and have him take it from there? Where where 244 00:20:30.880 --> 00:20:36.359 should we begin with the most curious of figures, or with the nature of 245 00:20:36.400 --> 00:20:41.640 the investigation. Where where should we go? What do you think, Larry? 246 00:20:41.640 --> 00:20:42.839 Should we go to Stu on that. Yeah, let me just what 247 00:20:42.960 --> 00:20:45.640 I'd hand off to Stu is Stu and I've been through this before. Is 248 00:20:45.680 --> 00:20:52.200 the fact kind of tracing through what the police had to deal with and how 249 00:20:52.200 --> 00:20:59.000 they responded to all of these witnesses who came forth over time saying that they 250 00:20:59.000 --> 00:21:03.480 had seen Sir an different people, different people the night of the assassination. 251 00:21:03.400 --> 00:21:07.359 They had seen Sir Hann with the girl in a polka dot dress in multiple 252 00:21:07.400 --> 00:21:11.559 locations. And we're not just talking about one or two people. We're talking 253 00:21:11.559 --> 00:21:18.519 about dozens of people that file police reports saying that they had seen this young 254 00:21:18.559 --> 00:21:22.960 woman and the men together with Sir Hanna at various places through the Ambassador Hotel. 255 00:21:22.559 --> 00:21:27.200 They had to deal with a police officer's report who talked to witnesses who 256 00:21:27.200 --> 00:21:33.079 had seen these same people fleeing the scene. And it got worse when they 257 00:21:33.119 --> 00:21:37.400 discovered that there was a whole list of sightings of these same people, same 258 00:21:37.440 --> 00:21:44.759 descriptions with Sir Hann over some three to four weeks before the assassination, while 259 00:21:44.839 --> 00:21:51.759 Robert Kennedy was in LA campaigning. And you know, so we have witnesses, 260 00:21:51.880 --> 00:21:55.640 we have people that have seen these people fleeing the hotel, and maybe 261 00:21:55.680 --> 00:21:59.680 that Stuke could kind of start going through this, dude, don't forget to 262 00:21:59.720 --> 00:22:03.240 mention Robbie's restaurant, but kind of set the scene for what the police were 263 00:22:03.279 --> 00:22:08.079 faced with dealing with. Another thing that's mentioned to me on Skype is that, 264 00:22:08.240 --> 00:22:11.720 of course, another major difference is that the suspect was captured with a 265 00:22:11.759 --> 00:22:17.400 weapon in his hand, and at the time of the shooting. Now that 266 00:22:17.440 --> 00:22:22.559 weapon in his hand I'm certain was utilized to strike others because other people were 267 00:22:22.599 --> 00:22:27.319 struck as well, you know, with gunfire, and indeed that is a 268 00:22:27.359 --> 00:22:30.720 difference in this case as well. So go ahead, Stu. Sorry, 269 00:22:30.720 --> 00:22:34.559 I just wanted to acknowledge that. Well, I would have probably done the 270 00:22:34.960 --> 00:22:41.680 switcheroo and given that introduction and handed it over to Glarry because he does such 271 00:22:41.680 --> 00:22:48.480 an amazing job in his essay on Mary Ferrell dot Com of really breaking it 272 00:22:48.559 --> 00:22:53.720 down, and I would emphasize two of the things that Larry mentioned in detail, 273 00:22:55.279 --> 00:23:02.519 and then maybe what we can do is branch off, especially on where 274 00:23:03.240 --> 00:23:06.559 one of these people takes us. But in terms of the police investigation, 275 00:23:07.599 --> 00:23:15.160 it's important to note, like not every police officer investigator in this thing was 276 00:23:15.640 --> 00:23:22.000 out to deep six the investigation. There were people who were honestly recording and 277 00:23:22.079 --> 00:23:26.799 trying to run down leads. The problem is that there were several other people, 278 00:23:26.839 --> 00:23:30.880 including we want to go physical evidence, the main criminalist, a guy 279 00:23:30.920 --> 00:23:36.400 named Dwayne Wolfer, who were clearly, for whatever reasons, you know, 280 00:23:36.720 --> 00:23:41.160 you could convince me very easily, they were worried about nineteen sixty eight and 281 00:23:41.279 --> 00:23:47.079 what had the country had seen in the past, you know, not even 282 00:23:47.160 --> 00:23:49.279 just nineteen sixty eight, all the way back to sixty six, the level 283 00:23:49.319 --> 00:23:56.400 of violence and rioting, et cetera, and what it would mean if one 284 00:23:56.440 --> 00:24:03.319 more shooting, one more assassination. And it's very obvious that there's another person 285 00:24:03.359 --> 00:24:07.400 involved at least and they can't find who it is what that might have meant 286 00:24:07.440 --> 00:24:11.440 for La and for the rest of the country. But they're clearly covering things 287 00:24:11.519 --> 00:24:15.839 up. And one of the key ones, which maybe again we'll get to, 288 00:24:15.519 --> 00:24:19.519 is then this investigation of the girl with a Polkadon address. There was 289 00:24:19.559 --> 00:24:30.680 a very clear attempt with certain witnesses to use things like lie detector tests, 290 00:24:30.759 --> 00:24:34.319 which are somewhat dubious to begin with, but if somebody's using it as a 291 00:24:34.359 --> 00:24:44.960 tool to badger, implant ideas inside the heads of and manipulate witnesses. That's 292 00:24:45.000 --> 00:24:48.160 a big, big no no, and that happened in this case. And 293 00:24:48.599 --> 00:24:55.599 what we have, as Larry said, is if you follow even physically through 294 00:24:55.640 --> 00:25:02.519 the Ambassador Hotel where RFK is going to be, and more importantly, where 295 00:25:02.680 --> 00:25:07.880 Sirhan is cited, and in many respects where he had to be physically in 296 00:25:07.960 --> 00:25:15.359 order to get to where he shoots Robert Kennedy. Every place he goes, 297 00:25:15.160 --> 00:25:22.640 he is seen in the company of people who fit a certain description, including 298 00:25:22.680 --> 00:25:26.960 a girl well you know, it's always weird to talk this way, but 299 00:25:27.440 --> 00:25:36.160 very commonly acknowledged for being top heavy, so to speak, in a polka 300 00:25:36.160 --> 00:25:42.359 doatta dress. Again, in multiple separate locations following the trail of where Sirhan 301 00:25:42.440 --> 00:25:48.799 would go, over and over again, he's seen in the company of people 302 00:25:48.880 --> 00:25:57.880 who somebody who vaguely is similar in description to him, right but not him, 303 00:25:57.920 --> 00:26:03.599 and another person who taller, thinner, all young. She's seen in 304 00:26:03.640 --> 00:26:11.240 these company of these people all the way up to and including where the shooting 305 00:26:11.240 --> 00:26:15.279 takes place, and even right after the shooting takes place, these people flee 306 00:26:17.079 --> 00:26:23.359 and multiple independent witnesses including fairly shortly after the crime is actually done, like 307 00:26:23.400 --> 00:26:27.559 this isn't like two weeks later, this is the day of this is within 308 00:26:29.759 --> 00:26:34.759 minutes hours, Get a hold of security and police and law enforcement and relay 309 00:26:34.960 --> 00:26:44.839 the story of suspicious activity between Sirhan and these sort of three people. Sometimes 310 00:26:44.839 --> 00:26:48.640 it's two of them, sometimes it's all three of them. And these people 311 00:26:48.720 --> 00:26:55.359 are acting incredibly strangely, especially afterwards when they seem to be reacting with glee 312 00:26:55.839 --> 00:27:03.880 fleeing the scene and Sirhan, we could get into a long story of it, 313 00:27:03.880 --> 00:27:10.720 it might become worthwhile. Has never sort of really been willing or depending 314 00:27:10.759 --> 00:27:14.960 on who you believe, been able to identify them. But there is a 315 00:27:15.079 --> 00:27:19.039 suggestion that they were helping him. There is a suggestion even that the girl 316 00:27:19.079 --> 00:27:25.160 in question may have been, depending again on who you're talking to, either 317 00:27:25.880 --> 00:27:30.359 potentially giving him some sort of I don't know the where would be liquid courage, 318 00:27:32.839 --> 00:27:37.400 because it might have been in pill form to get him to a point 319 00:27:37.400 --> 00:27:41.720 where he would do the shooting at that close arrange. The people who arrested 320 00:27:41.799 --> 00:27:45.319 him, he was signingly strong, but the people who subdued him, I 321 00:27:45.319 --> 00:27:52.799 should say, were world class Olympic type athletes, and they still had a 322 00:27:52.920 --> 00:27:56.480 very tough time subduing him. They thought he might have been in some sort 323 00:27:56.519 --> 00:28:02.559 of high or drug in some way, shape or form because of that. 324 00:28:03.839 --> 00:28:08.720 And then, as Larry says, and Larry did an amazing job again in 325 00:28:08.759 --> 00:28:15.920 his series of essays, you see the same exact people, at least in 326 00:28:15.000 --> 00:28:23.039 terms of physical description, in Sirhan's company, at shooting ranges, at other 327 00:28:23.279 --> 00:28:33.200 RFK events with Sirhan, and this gets buried, and I alluded to this 328 00:28:33.319 --> 00:28:41.319 before, this gets buried rather quickly by certain people within the department to the 329 00:28:41.359 --> 00:28:48.359 point where they identify a woman who really does not fit the description of the 330 00:28:48.359 --> 00:28:56.079 Pokadonta dress girl as the Pokaanonta dress girl. And again, Larry and I 331 00:28:56.079 --> 00:29:02.079 could get into some possibilities. We may even have some idea as to who 332 00:29:02.119 --> 00:29:07.759 this person is, and I personally I think Larry does too. We can 333 00:29:07.839 --> 00:29:14.480 get into the Sirhan angle of this. I would approach his parole and release 334 00:29:14.599 --> 00:29:17.240 very differently than a lot of other people. We could get to that. 335 00:29:18.000 --> 00:29:23.160 I think there's hope that Sirhan could potentially identify. Efforts have been made who 336 00:29:23.200 --> 00:29:27.240 this person is, and there is a candidate for who this person might be 337 00:29:29.839 --> 00:29:33.160 at least one, but one I think Larry and I both agree are is 338 00:29:33.319 --> 00:29:41.920 very tantalizing who we could get into as well, who's still alive. So 339 00:29:42.279 --> 00:29:48.240 and I happen to think, and I don't know if Larry fill is on 340 00:29:48.319 --> 00:29:49.759 poart with me on this particular one, I happen to think, we have 341 00:29:49.759 --> 00:29:55.559 a pretty good idea for who one of the people the males is who's hanging 342 00:29:55.599 --> 00:29:59.559 around with him, So we could get to this. We have plenty of 343 00:29:59.559 --> 00:30:03.799 time. That's how I'd set it up. Several different indications of a Polka 344 00:30:03.799 --> 00:30:11.480 Dota dress girl, taller, thinner man, a person who's vaguely the same 345 00:30:11.480 --> 00:30:18.640 description as Ciron over and over again in the Ambassador, where you'd expect them 346 00:30:18.680 --> 00:30:22.759 to be. If Sirhan is trying to get to a point where he could 347 00:30:22.799 --> 00:30:26.720 kill RFK, and he obviously is part of a more than one shooter who 348 00:30:26.720 --> 00:30:33.000 eventually does acting suspiciously immediately after the crime, and then you trace it back 349 00:30:33.039 --> 00:30:40.640 and you could actually put them in Siron's company at very suspicious places in the 350 00:30:40.680 --> 00:30:45.440 week before the crime. And so I would leave it there, And some 351 00:30:45.519 --> 00:30:51.759 people do ask before we go over to Larry to you know, kind of 352 00:30:52.039 --> 00:30:55.319 corral this a little bit. Some people do ask, you know, look, 353 00:30:55.680 --> 00:30:57.480 he's in the presence of a woman. I mean, is it possible 354 00:30:57.559 --> 00:31:03.240 that that woman could be his sister. He's in the presence of, you 355 00:31:03.279 --> 00:31:07.480 know, some men here. Is it possible that these are his brothers or 356 00:31:07.880 --> 00:31:12.160 something like that? Now, there is an interesting connection between the weapon and 357 00:31:12.759 --> 00:31:18.960 one of Sirhan's brothers, but we're not going to cover that tonight. Well, 358 00:31:18.200 --> 00:31:21.880 uh, if I could say, I think that, I mean, 359 00:31:21.920 --> 00:31:26.000 if if you if you're uncomfortable talking about names, I think that's a key 360 00:31:26.039 --> 00:31:29.599 to this whole case. Oh no, I think I'm not uncomfortable at all. 361 00:31:29.640 --> 00:31:30.720 I just want to go, oh, yes, I mean his his 362 00:31:30.920 --> 00:31:37.359 one of his brothers in violation of uh like you know, he was, 363 00:31:37.400 --> 00:31:44.799 he was essentially parole in essence. One of his brothers purchased a gun in 364 00:31:44.960 --> 00:31:48.440 violation of the law and gave it to Sirhan, and we just people just 365 00:31:48.480 --> 00:31:52.599 tend to ignore that that brother when I keep on saying, somebody who kind 366 00:31:52.599 --> 00:31:59.799 of sort of looks like Sirhan. Both figures I think could potentially be brothers 367 00:32:00.519 --> 00:32:06.920 of the woman, does not, in my opinion, fit the description of 368 00:32:06.960 --> 00:32:14.519 any of the women that Sirhan was attempting to engage with and expressed an interest 369 00:32:14.599 --> 00:32:20.279 with. Nor is it clear to me that it's any of the brother's girlfriends 370 00:32:21.440 --> 00:32:25.039 right that we know of, which is key. But I would add this 371 00:32:27.240 --> 00:32:32.519 and perhaps we could touch upon it. I am deeply skeptical of the Manchurian 372 00:32:32.599 --> 00:32:37.519 candidate scenario that many people almost take for as a given in this case. 373 00:32:38.400 --> 00:32:42.799 But if you are skeptical of that particular idea, and we could go into 374 00:32:42.799 --> 00:32:45.000 why if you want to, at some point you have to ask yourself why, 375 00:32:45.079 --> 00:32:50.279 Sirhan, who very very clearly, I have to I have to leave 376 00:32:50.359 --> 00:32:57.759 the area on police. I actually left my house hold on because there was 377 00:32:57.880 --> 00:33:02.000 music going on. Yeah, I'm just I had to leave my house to 378 00:33:02.079 --> 00:33:07.400 do a random Sorry, guys, give me one second, no problem, 379 00:33:07.440 --> 00:33:12.720 mute yourself up and will turn over to Larry. Yeah, Chuck, I 380 00:33:12.759 --> 00:33:16.960 think this is a good a couple of interesting things to go back to talk 381 00:33:17.039 --> 00:33:22.119 about the police investigations. As still mentioned, one of the fascinating things, 382 00:33:22.119 --> 00:33:27.160 and you brought it up, is the resemblance between some of these young men 383 00:33:27.240 --> 00:33:34.279 and Sarahen's brothers. When the police were investigating these incidents that were reported both 384 00:33:34.319 --> 00:33:37.519 at the Ambassador Hotel that night and over the preceding weeks. They talked to 385 00:33:37.599 --> 00:33:44.160 several people who actually identified one of the brothers as the person they had seen 386 00:33:44.319 --> 00:33:50.039 with this young woman. Okay, in one instance, in what very likely 387 00:33:50.079 --> 00:33:54.200 appears to have been a potential attack on RFK at a luncheon at Robbie's Restaurant. 388 00:33:54.279 --> 00:34:00.880 Long story there. But the interesting thing from a criminal investigation standpoint is, 389 00:34:00.799 --> 00:34:05.599 even though they picked them out of mugshots, the way you would normally 390 00:34:05.680 --> 00:34:08.639 resolve this obviously as you do a lineup, right, Okay, we got 391 00:34:08.679 --> 00:34:14.000 sir, hand and custody, We've got these others. Okay, let's just 392 00:34:14.079 --> 00:34:17.039 do a lineup and see what the witnesses say. If you go back into 393 00:34:17.079 --> 00:34:22.239 the actual police reports, you see that on multiple occasions the brothers were asked 394 00:34:22.519 --> 00:34:27.559 if they were participating in a lineup, and they essentially said no, we'd 395 00:34:27.639 --> 00:34:30.760 rather not, And the police said, okay, fine. Now, in 396 00:34:30.840 --> 00:34:37.119 how many real crimes in the world does that option happen. It's like, 397 00:34:37.519 --> 00:34:40.400 we've got witnesses that identified you, got a mugshot book, you're going to 398 00:34:40.440 --> 00:34:47.559 be in a lineup. Okay. We also know and to the police reports 399 00:34:47.599 --> 00:34:57.119 themselves say that they were very interested in actually filing charges, possibly accessory charges. 400 00:34:57.199 --> 00:35:00.159 None of that happened. So one of the things we've gotten to make 401 00:35:00.199 --> 00:35:07.199 clear is there were things in this investigation that were very atypical. The two 402 00:35:07.280 --> 00:35:14.039 areas really atypical. The investigation was atypical. Okay, at one point in 403 00:35:14.079 --> 00:35:17.760 time, is Stue referenced there, I counted up I think like twenty five 404 00:35:17.920 --> 00:35:24.519 plus reports of this young woman and the two men in association with Sir Hand 405 00:35:27.000 --> 00:35:32.719 just at the Ambassador Hotel that evening. As Stu said, one of the 406 00:35:32.880 --> 00:35:43.159 LAPD sergents assigned to it did a totally procedurally incorrect polygraph interview of the young 407 00:35:43.199 --> 00:35:46.760 woman. Witness actually bought her drinks beforehand. I mean, this is the 408 00:35:46.800 --> 00:35:51.599 sort of thing that should have gotten kicked off the force, but got her 409 00:35:51.639 --> 00:35:57.599 to admit to saying something false when it provably was not false. Long story 410 00:35:57.639 --> 00:36:01.599 there, She had already told the deputy district attorney the story of the night 411 00:36:01.639 --> 00:36:06.039 of the assassination, and this guy got her to say that was false, 412 00:36:06.679 --> 00:36:09.280 had a record showing she had said it the night of the assassination. You're 413 00:36:09.320 --> 00:36:16.599 talking about Serena went back and literally signed off on dozens of witness reports saying 414 00:36:16.800 --> 00:36:22.559 this is no longer relevant because we have disproven this one witness. These are 415 00:36:22.599 --> 00:36:25.119 things that you should not see in a criminal investigation. Yes, now in 416 00:36:25.119 --> 00:36:30.360 this case, you're talking about Serrano, right, Sandra Serrano would be the 417 00:36:30.400 --> 00:36:36.119 young woman and Sergeant Hernandez would be the officer, right. And we have 418 00:36:36.360 --> 00:36:40.000 heard a tape of him badgering her and telling her, you know, the 419 00:36:40.000 --> 00:36:45.320 ghost of Robert Kennedy and Ethel Kennedy would be grateful if you wouldn't say these 420 00:36:45.360 --> 00:36:51.880 things, I mean, very very weird, pressuring to get her to change 421 00:36:51.920 --> 00:36:57.760 her story. If you're to take it as benign, Larry, don't you 422 00:36:58.199 --> 00:37:00.519 if you could see at that point in time, if it's hard not to 423 00:37:00.559 --> 00:37:06.280 infer that there's political pressure going on within Special Unit Centered at a minimum, 424 00:37:06.320 --> 00:37:10.000 because these guys have now had weeks to chase these leads. They can't get 425 00:37:10.039 --> 00:37:14.119 anybody, And how are you going to close it down? The only way 426 00:37:14.159 --> 00:37:17.599 you can close it down is to make the witness look witnesses look bad, 427 00:37:17.719 --> 00:37:22.719 so you can close off the investigation and let the DA do his thing. 428 00:37:22.960 --> 00:37:25.239 I would not be surprised at all if the pressure had been coming from the 429 00:37:25.320 --> 00:37:31.920 DA's offices, because no DA wants this sort of stuff paining around when they've 430 00:37:31.960 --> 00:37:37.480 got a guy in custody who was taken in to custody with a smoking gun. 431 00:37:37.639 --> 00:37:42.760 Literally, you don't want a conspiracy to screw up your prosecution, right, 432 00:37:42.800 --> 00:37:45.840 because you have a sure thing in hand here. This guy was tackled 433 00:37:45.880 --> 00:37:50.119 by you know again it's Rapper Johnson and Rosie Greer, So you got you 434 00:37:50.159 --> 00:37:53.079 know, former NFL and former Olympian, right, isn't that? I think 435 00:37:53.119 --> 00:37:57.920 that's Rayper Johnson was an Olympian, was yeah, yeah, oh yeah, 436 00:37:58.280 --> 00:38:00.880 ye had a new Raye for my ouf at one point time. Briefly would 437 00:38:00.880 --> 00:38:04.960 not want to tackle the man. No, but I mean these two guys 438 00:38:05.039 --> 00:38:12.199 tackling you and Sir Han not exactly the most intimidating of figures, you know, 439 00:38:12.280 --> 00:38:16.599 physically small guy, but these both of these guys had you know, 440 00:38:16.639 --> 00:38:21.800 excuse the expression, a hell of a time just trying to you know, 441 00:38:21.920 --> 00:38:27.559 control him and get the arms slammed down as they're tackling him to get him 442 00:38:27.599 --> 00:38:35.519 to stop shooting. Quite interesting there, okay, But but nonetheless, we 443 00:38:35.519 --> 00:38:37.320 don't want to go into the logistics on the shooting and all that, but 444 00:38:37.360 --> 00:38:42.000 there's plenty of a story there. And again, yeah, I would highly 445 00:38:42.079 --> 00:38:46.440 recommend what turned out to be I think John Hunt's final work regarding this case, 446 00:38:46.880 --> 00:38:51.960 because he's meticulous about the way he puts things together, always has been, 447 00:38:52.000 --> 00:38:53.840 always will be. I mean, this is a guy went and photographed 448 00:38:53.880 --> 00:38:57.960 the single bullet from what twenty angles. I mean, you know, what 449 00:38:58.239 --> 00:39:04.159 are you gonna do? Just to show how? And I just encourage if 450 00:39:04.239 --> 00:39:07.760 anybody has the least bit of interest in this, in the crime scene and 451 00:39:07.800 --> 00:39:13.880 what happened with the crime scene the autopsy. John was a professional model builder, 452 00:39:14.480 --> 00:39:19.119 so what he did was to get and he was also in a position 453 00:39:19.239 --> 00:39:24.880 of actually working with one of Sir Hein's attorney's researchers, got access to documents 454 00:39:24.880 --> 00:39:30.079 at the time nobody else was seen. He literally recreated and built a professional 455 00:39:30.119 --> 00:39:36.519 class model in his basement, did all the measurements, and then compared the 456 00:39:36.639 --> 00:39:43.639 measurements of the model that he built to what the criminologists was saying in his 457 00:39:43.760 --> 00:39:47.599 crime scene report. And you can see right off he immediately started finding that 458 00:39:47.639 --> 00:39:55.840 the criminologist Wolfer had gimmicked his measurements and his positioning of people and tables to 459 00:39:55.880 --> 00:40:02.280 defend a shooting sequence that just is impossible. But that's the kind of level 460 00:40:02.320 --> 00:40:08.840 of detail John went into and destroys the crime scene evidence essentially, right, 461 00:40:09.000 --> 00:40:15.000 right, So with all that in mind, I guess we'll take a quick 462 00:40:15.039 --> 00:40:20.480 break here and pull ourselves together during that break and get to the conclusion of 463 00:40:20.519 --> 00:40:23.159 this discussion, which will not take long. On the other side, stick 464 00:40:23.199 --> 00:40:27.159 around, Larry Hancock and Stu Wexler with me, and we're talking about the 465 00:40:27.280 --> 00:40:34.320 RFK assassination and some information that is just as rare as is the focus on 466 00:40:34.360 --> 00:40:40.440 this particular event, this particular murder, this particular political assassination during an era 467 00:40:40.679 --> 00:40:45.599 of assassinations. Like I said, I kind of bookend this between med Grebbers, 468 00:40:45.639 --> 00:40:50.199 which happened earlier in nineteen sixty three than the Kennedy assassination, and then 469 00:40:50.239 --> 00:40:52.920 I go all the way through to the Black Panthers. Some people argue with 470 00:40:52.960 --> 00:42:00.000 me on that, but sorry, I see what I oh Chilly dot Com 471 00:41:59.639 --> 00:42:05.960 show Radio Nuclear Holocaust. You know what uranium is, right, think called 472 00:42:06.000 --> 00:42:09.280 nuclear weapons and other things like lots of you know what uranium is, right? 473 00:42:09.519 --> 00:42:15.400 Bad things things are done with uranium, including some bad things. Nuclear 474 00:42:15.440 --> 00:42:19.159 holocaust. You know what uranium is, right? I have big grief nuclear 475 00:42:19.199 --> 00:42:23.000 holocaust, nuclear holocaust. You know what uranium is right, think called nuclear 476 00:42:23.000 --> 00:42:28.440 weapons and other things like lots of you know what uranium is right? Bad 477 00:42:28.519 --> 00:42:34.599 things things are done with uranium, including some bad things nuclear holocaust, nuclear 478 00:42:34.599 --> 00:42:40.159 hollolear Holocaust. Revelation through Conversation The War State by Michael Swanson explains the great 479 00:42:40.239 --> 00:42:45.519 national transformation that took place and put the Kennedy presidency in the context of the 480 00:42:45.599 --> 00:42:51.400 times and reveals never before published information about the Cuban missile crisis. President Kennedy 481 00:42:51.480 --> 00:42:54.119 would not have been assassinated if he had been president two hundred years ago. 482 00:42:54.480 --> 00:42:59.559 His assassination took place in the context of the Cold War and the rise of 483 00:42:59.559 --> 00:43:02.480 the national security state. Before World War II, the United States was a 484 00:43:02.519 --> 00:43:07.960 continental republic. In the decade that followed, it became an imperial superpower. 485 00:43:07.239 --> 00:43:12.519 Generals such as Curtis LeMay not only wanted to invade Cuba, but knew that 486 00:43:12.599 --> 00:43:15.599 there were short range missiles on the island arn't with nuclear warheads that they could 487 00:43:15.639 --> 00:43:20.639 not destroy because they were on mobile launchers. Their invasion could have led to 488 00:43:20.679 --> 00:43:23.920 a Third World War, and they wanted to go to war anyway. The 489 00:43:23.960 --> 00:43:29.559 War State by Michael Swanson reveals why, and we'll show you what President Kennedy 490 00:43:29.639 --> 00:43:34.000 was up against. For more information, the Warstate dot com. Do you 491 00:43:34.199 --> 00:43:38.000 like history? Real history that you were never taught in schools? Why the 492 00:43:38.119 --> 00:43:45.280 Vietnam War, Nuclear Bombs and Nation Building in Southeast Asia by author Mike Swanson, 493 00:43:45.440 --> 00:43:51.039 with new documentation never seen before that'll open your eyes to events that led 494 00:43:51.119 --> 00:43:55.199 up to this. Why the Vietnam War, Nuclear Bombs and Nation Building in 495 00:43:55.360 --> 00:44:01.760 Southeast Asia nineteen forty five through nineteen sixty one. Get your copy today at 496 00:44:01.840 --> 00:45:01.800 Amazon dot com. Why the Vietnam War by author Mike Swanson. Come see 497 00:45:04.039 --> 00:45:29.079 watch yourself? Just see money you want you sir? She is can say 498 00:45:29.440 --> 00:46:52.239 from the wet sad sup this get ready? Get ready for so Larry Hancock 499 00:46:52.320 --> 00:46:55.480 and Stu Wexler are still with me. Final segment for tonight, and we're 500 00:46:55.519 --> 00:47:00.760 gonna kind of wrap this up with an interesting piece of information and you know, 501 00:47:01.119 --> 00:47:07.000 people of interest here real quick, Larry, let's pick up where we 502 00:47:07.159 --> 00:47:09.639 left off, though, if you don't mind and go ahead, sure, 503 00:47:09.880 --> 00:47:14.960 I think one of the most interesting things. And again two things that make 504 00:47:15.039 --> 00:47:20.880 this dramatically unlike Dallas is the people that were being reported and people we've just 505 00:47:21.000 --> 00:47:25.199 talked about. You know, the young woman and the young men were you 506 00:47:25.280 --> 00:47:30.000 know, were very visible. They were not covert at all. They've been 507 00:47:30.119 --> 00:47:35.119 reported by lots of people. Uh, they were, as stud said, 508 00:47:35.159 --> 00:47:38.719 after the assassination they left the area, they were laughing. You know, 509 00:47:38.960 --> 00:47:44.679 these are in no way trained professionals. This is kind of like a pickup 510 00:47:44.760 --> 00:47:51.239 squad. I mean seriously, And that's why they were seen and commented on 511 00:47:51.519 --> 00:47:54.559 by so many people as they were acting strangely, which again, as I 512 00:47:54.639 --> 00:48:00.360 say, it's totally unprofessional, totally not what you would expect if this is 513 00:48:00.440 --> 00:48:07.159 some sort of well organized professional conspiracy. That and one of the places that 514 00:48:07.239 --> 00:48:13.920 they were most commented about and reported was in the Robert Kennedy campaign headquarters. 515 00:48:14.519 --> 00:48:19.920 Uh. Kennedy had been in the area campaigning for some weeks and made visits 516 00:48:19.960 --> 00:48:25.719 to certain several locations and had campaign headquarters set up, and the campaign workers 517 00:48:25.800 --> 00:48:30.760 themselves. One of the locations went to the FBI, not in the even 518 00:48:30.800 --> 00:48:37.880 the LAPD, and said, look, you know, there were a group 519 00:48:37.960 --> 00:48:43.639 of people here that were acting very suspiciously and we need we have their names, 520 00:48:43.719 --> 00:48:46.840 you need to investigate them. They actually, on at least one occasion, 521 00:48:47.480 --> 00:48:52.960 came with a young man that several of us think look exactly like Sir 522 00:48:52.039 --> 00:48:59.480 Hans her hand again, if not very close to him. Their behavior was 523 00:48:59.519 --> 00:49:05.239 suspicion. They had no real reason to be here, and we think they 524 00:49:05.320 --> 00:49:10.599 need to be investigated. And as it turns out, LAPD did pursue the 525 00:49:10.719 --> 00:49:17.440 lead copy I mean, FBI pursued the lead copied LAPD, who really did 526 00:49:17.599 --> 00:49:22.559 not pursue it. FBI played lead on it and did the approach to these 527 00:49:22.639 --> 00:49:30.280 people. It's unclear quite why, but I will let's do go for over 528 00:49:30.440 --> 00:49:35.360 there. It's a family that actually you could do a lot of background roach 529 00:49:35.760 --> 00:49:38.840 work on a lot of contextual work. And since they had been reported as 530 00:49:38.960 --> 00:49:44.239 matching the descriptions for so many people, you would have thought that it would 531 00:49:44.239 --> 00:49:49.599 have been a quite serious investigation, not just into you know, were you 532 00:49:49.719 --> 00:49:51.960 there, Oh yeah, we were at the office. Were you at the 533 00:49:52.039 --> 00:49:58.119 ambassador well yeah maybe yeah, But no background work was done at all. 534 00:49:58.199 --> 00:50:06.400 And this was a family of an individual Iranian expatriate named kyber Khan and they 535 00:50:06.480 --> 00:50:10.239 turn out to be particularly interesting. One of the reasons they're particularly interesting is 536 00:50:10.599 --> 00:50:15.440 they weren't really investigated, even though they were reported by so many people. 537 00:50:15.760 --> 00:50:20.280 And I'll hand it off to Stu at this point in time, right now, 538 00:50:20.360 --> 00:50:22.760 Stu, the con family before you get into that, just real fast 539 00:50:23.159 --> 00:50:25.719 a point of reference. If people want to go and take a look at 540 00:50:25.800 --> 00:50:30.400 your work, is there a single place that you would have them go. 541 00:50:30.719 --> 00:50:35.440 I know that I could recommend one of your books highly and obviously the ones 542 00:50:35.480 --> 00:50:39.599 that you co authored with Larry for sure, But you know where else could 543 00:50:39.639 --> 00:50:45.119 people go ahead and you know, get into your work. They wouldn't find 544 00:50:45.840 --> 00:50:50.559 the con issue in my writing. They would find, I believe, and 545 00:50:50.639 --> 00:50:52.840 Larry could correct me if I'm wrong. They'd find some references to it in 546 00:50:52.960 --> 00:50:59.239 Larry's writing on the Mary Farrell site, someone who did at one point in 547 00:50:59.360 --> 00:51:07.280 time, and you know, they may well still have some part for it, 548 00:51:07.400 --> 00:51:12.559 but they kind of diverted things into a different direction. One of the 549 00:51:12.599 --> 00:51:19.559 first people to really elucidate this was what would be Lisa Pease, but maybe 550 00:51:19.639 --> 00:51:23.719 her older work even and stuff you can find online rather than her book, 551 00:51:23.719 --> 00:51:27.480 although I think her book, I'll be honest, it's very very big. 552 00:51:27.559 --> 00:51:31.599 I did not go into it. I'm sure it mentions it, but she 553 00:51:31.880 --> 00:51:36.599 actually brought to the surface. Some of the other researchers did, but she 554 00:51:36.760 --> 00:51:44.920 really dove into it a lead and highlighted it years ago that I'm going to 555 00:51:45.000 --> 00:51:49.840 go into right now that Larry and I did some follow up work on and 556 00:51:50.239 --> 00:51:53.199 maybe and I'm never surew we go into more depth about this particular overall lead. 557 00:51:54.320 --> 00:52:00.440 If I went beyond Sirhan and his family, this would be the group 558 00:52:00.480 --> 00:52:04.679 of people who I would be looking most carefully at, and in fact, 559 00:52:05.199 --> 00:52:07.599 I'd be looking very hard to find try and find out whether or not and 560 00:52:07.840 --> 00:52:15.599 how they might have actually interacted with Cyran's family. And this would be the 561 00:52:15.719 --> 00:52:20.840 cons And this would be you know, the person who often gets brought up 562 00:52:20.880 --> 00:52:28.119 as Khyber Khan, who's sort of this playboy Iranian exile. This is the 563 00:52:28.239 --> 00:52:34.320 time of the Shah, this is before the Iranian Revolution. He's a very 564 00:52:34.440 --> 00:52:38.840 tricky person to pin down as to where his loyalties truly stood if they didn't 565 00:52:39.000 --> 00:52:45.880 just stand to him alone. And he's sort of this international man of mystery 566 00:52:45.960 --> 00:52:54.679 type who starts to get involved in the RFK campaign in very heavily, while 567 00:52:54.920 --> 00:53:00.719 in sixty eight he's at the Ambassador and he is, at least according to 568 00:53:00.880 --> 00:53:07.039 some people seen in the company of Sirhan, He's not the one I find 569 00:53:07.079 --> 00:53:10.440 the most interesting, although he connects very closely to the one Larry and I 570 00:53:10.599 --> 00:53:17.079 think both find the most interesting. And that comes from a far out story 571 00:53:19.800 --> 00:53:27.000 involving a well regarded reporter from New York who on the night of the assassination, 572 00:53:28.400 --> 00:53:31.159 and his name slips my mind, but on the night of the assassination, 573 00:53:32.199 --> 00:53:37.960 this guy starts hearing the stories about the Polka doont address girl, and 574 00:53:37.039 --> 00:53:45.679 he starts hearing the physical descriptions of her right and for whatever reason, he 575 00:53:46.440 --> 00:53:54.199 loosely like he contacts I believe sources to get to law enforcement and investigators in 576 00:53:54.280 --> 00:54:04.360 California and says, I think I know who this girl might be, and 577 00:54:04.679 --> 00:54:12.679 she seems to resemble from the descriptions and trigger my memory of a girl who 578 00:54:13.599 --> 00:54:17.480 gave flowers. I think it was to the Shah, which is a weird 579 00:54:17.599 --> 00:54:23.039 thing when you understand the background of the family when he had visited New York 580 00:54:24.559 --> 00:54:30.599 within I think the past year, and you may want to look into her. 581 00:54:31.559 --> 00:54:37.320 Sure Enough, they dig in and find out who the girl was who 582 00:54:37.519 --> 00:54:43.840 gave the flowers in New York. And you know, in this world of 583 00:54:44.000 --> 00:54:52.760 unbelievable coincidences, she happens to be a woman named Sharon Khan, who was 584 00:54:53.639 --> 00:55:00.199 I believe the daughter of Kayber Khan and who was unquestionably at the Ambassador that 585 00:55:00.360 --> 00:55:06.559 evening. So you understand, the guy from New York had from every all 586 00:55:06.639 --> 00:55:15.079 accounts, no nothing, but a strong hunch that some girl he saw in 587 00:55:15.320 --> 00:55:19.880 some official, sort of quasi official, you know, act in New York 588 00:55:19.960 --> 00:55:24.559 City, because she fit met the description, you know, and it wasn't 589 00:55:24.639 --> 00:55:30.559 like a super duper specific description of the Pokadada dress girl might have been the 590 00:55:30.599 --> 00:55:37.800 Pokadada dress girl. What are the odds to add up the odds that that 591 00:55:37.159 --> 00:55:46.760 person was in California at the Ambassador Hotel on the night of the assassination and 592 00:55:47.000 --> 00:55:55.119 is related to somebody that, completely independently of her, was reported for suspicious 593 00:55:55.159 --> 00:55:59.559 activity and connected to the in connection with the assassination, and was, in 594 00:55:59.679 --> 00:56:06.480 fact, and this goes to Larry's point, tentatively investigated Tiber Khan for the 595 00:56:06.760 --> 00:56:10.239 for a potential role in the In Robert Kennedy's assassination, the odds have gotta 596 00:56:10.320 --> 00:56:19.800 be like millions to one against. And yet with that enormous coincidence, because 597 00:56:19.880 --> 00:56:25.199 in part they were so quick to shut down any discussion of a Polka Dotta 598 00:56:25.280 --> 00:56:31.480 dress girl, the Shearon Khan and Kiber Khan. Ultimately Kiber got a little 599 00:56:31.519 --> 00:56:37.119 bit more of a of a look see than she did or that she warranted, 600 00:56:38.360 --> 00:56:44.400 they get essentially dropped. I mean, there's records of the investigation, 601 00:56:44.559 --> 00:56:53.159 but it's incomplete, and it is our understanding she's still alive, and I 602 00:56:53.239 --> 00:56:55.360 don't know if we want to go into any more depth than that, but 603 00:56:57.320 --> 00:57:01.800 uh, maybe in a future episode. That to me, if if you 604 00:57:02.039 --> 00:57:09.400 want to venture outside of what I think you have at a minimum some level 605 00:57:09.440 --> 00:57:17.599 of complicity potentially from the family, then that's the person who I would absolutely 606 00:57:17.719 --> 00:57:22.920 start with. And I don't know, Larry, you tell me how much 607 00:57:22.000 --> 00:57:28.199 we could go into a future show. Some stuff that's come out in recent 608 00:57:28.320 --> 00:57:34.400 years that makes her even more suspicious and contemporaneous with the time. She would 609 00:57:34.480 --> 00:57:40.360 certainly fit pretty well with the physical description of the pokon Dot dress girl as 610 00:57:40.440 --> 00:57:45.719 I understand it, and as I've observed in photographs. Maybe I'm seeing things 611 00:57:45.760 --> 00:57:52.760 strangely there. But it looks to me like the identification by multiple witnesses. 612 00:57:52.239 --> 00:57:58.599 If you put a Poconont dress on her, not a bad descriptor uh, 613 00:57:58.719 --> 00:58:00.920 maybe it's just me. I mean, I know some people said, you 614 00:58:00.000 --> 00:58:05.480 know, she appeared in Mexican or this and that or whatever, but she 615 00:58:05.639 --> 00:58:08.719 could have That's the interesting thing, you know, if you get her as 616 00:58:08.800 --> 00:58:13.679 we did. We obtained a picture of her from nineteen sixty eight, right 617 00:58:15.760 --> 00:58:21.320 that if you asked the top three nationalities, that would be one of them. 618 00:58:22.960 --> 00:58:24.559 Well, obviously I know what her nationality is, right right, But 619 00:58:24.639 --> 00:58:29.440 if all I had was the picture, that would be one of them. 620 00:58:29.639 --> 00:58:31.199 Well, if I represented that picture to you and I said, look, 621 00:58:31.280 --> 00:58:35.719 this is you know, a lady from Guatemala, or this is a lady 622 00:58:35.760 --> 00:58:42.079 from Mexico, you'd say, okay, it's I have a zero problem believing 623 00:58:42.159 --> 00:58:46.079 that. Yeah, fair enough. So I think one of the things. 624 00:58:46.239 --> 00:58:53.480 Just to again focus back on the the Khan family, Kyber Khan was interviewed. 625 00:58:53.599 --> 00:58:59.760 There was some background investigation and he was the reason he and the family 626 00:59:00.159 --> 00:59:06.639 of interest again is because of their appearance at the Kennedy headquarters and because there 627 00:59:06.679 --> 00:59:10.119 were people there that were very suspicious and people that reported that he had been 628 00:59:10.199 --> 00:59:16.079 there, he had brought several young Arab looking men in. They really thought 629 00:59:16.119 --> 00:59:22.480 that Sir Hannah was one of them. So that's the fact behind this. 630 00:59:22.079 --> 00:59:27.440 And actually when they started checking the list, yes, he had brought his 631 00:59:27.639 --> 00:59:32.159 daughter along with him as well, so you would think that that would the 632 00:59:32.280 --> 00:59:37.199 timing. The timing was if this had really been investigated at a point in 633 00:59:37.280 --> 00:59:44.880 time when they were seriously looking to identify the Polka Dot dress girl, there 634 00:59:44.960 --> 00:59:49.239 might have been a totally different investigation by the time they got to her. 635 00:59:50.199 --> 00:59:52.280 And they actually didn't get to her because they never interviewed her. It's kind 636 00:59:52.320 --> 00:59:57.960 of fascinating. They went to the apartment, they interviewed him, they interviewed 637 00:59:58.000 --> 01:00:01.119 his son, they did not interview the girl. Like they're looking for the 638 01:00:01.480 --> 01:00:06.440 Polka Dot dress girl, but they don't interview the girl and the family. 639 01:00:07.159 --> 01:00:12.599 And the FBI does this initial interview, hands it off to l a p 640 01:00:12.760 --> 01:00:15.800 D. And by the time l a p D gets it, they've already 641 01:00:15.840 --> 01:00:20.480 got attended a person, you know, a blonde who's not obviously not the 642 01:00:20.519 --> 01:00:23.480 Polka Dot dress girl. She just had to have on the right dress wrong 643 01:00:23.559 --> 01:00:28.599 colors. They're done with this, so it never went anywhere. There's never 644 01:00:29.199 --> 01:00:32.519 there's never any exploration of how could these people have been connected to Sir Han, 645 01:00:34.039 --> 01:00:37.280 to Sir Hans brothers, what are their political connections, what's going on 646 01:00:37.440 --> 01:00:42.519 with the background context, what could have been some kind of motive here, 647 01:00:43.159 --> 01:00:46.239 as Sue says, a very very strange motive. You if you look into 648 01:00:47.039 --> 01:00:52.480 none of that was done. That would have had to be done at the 649 01:00:52.559 --> 01:00:58.480 time with a real investigation, and it was not done. And so essentially 650 01:00:58.559 --> 01:01:02.400 the Khan family just got dropped right along with the polka dot dress girl. 651 01:01:02.599 --> 01:01:07.920 And that's really one of the problems that you would face, is it stopped 652 01:01:07.960 --> 01:01:12.000 at that point in time when they wrote off the polka dot dress girl, 653 01:01:12.360 --> 01:01:15.480 they wrote off everything right now, was the blonde lady also the one that 654 01:01:15.599 --> 01:01:17.960 had the cast on her leg? Or was that a difference? Yeah? 655 01:01:19.039 --> 01:01:22.159 Okay, so yeah, because everyone just happened to miss that, because nobody 656 01:01:22.159 --> 01:01:28.360 would have noticed that person was running as on her leg greenvest with yellow polka 657 01:01:28.400 --> 01:01:31.840 dots and you know, like wait a minute, not even close, guys. 658 01:01:32.119 --> 01:01:36.119 Yeah, yeah, that they were desperate. Yeah, And one of 659 01:01:36.159 --> 01:01:39.400 the things Larry does a good job of describing is this person whoever the Poka 660 01:01:39.400 --> 01:01:44.480 dot a dress girl was. She appeared to have basically run or jogged away 661 01:01:44.599 --> 01:01:47.639 from the crime scene. Yeah, and this woman couldn't have done that. 662 01:01:49.719 --> 01:01:52.199 Well, That's why I brought it up, is because you know, if 663 01:01:52.239 --> 01:01:55.920 you even listen to Serrano's initial statement to the media right where she's you know, 664 01:01:57.079 --> 01:01:59.440 all upset and oh I couldn't believe it. I saw it. They 665 01:01:59.480 --> 01:02:05.079 came running out all that, and she's talking about this woman running and you're 666 01:02:05.119 --> 01:02:07.719 not going to do that with a cast on your line. It just or 667 01:02:07.760 --> 01:02:10.360 if you did, it would be quite noticeable. You know, she came 668 01:02:10.480 --> 01:02:15.039 hobbling out with the cast on her I mean, you'd think she would have 669 01:02:15.079 --> 01:02:19.199 mentioned that, not to mention the fact that she said, look, I'm 670 01:02:19.239 --> 01:02:24.440 Mexican. She looked Mexican too, so not really blonde lady. And anyway, 671 01:02:25.360 --> 01:02:31.039 it's it's so ridiculous, but they basically dismissed this. And the funny 672 01:02:31.079 --> 01:02:35.519 thing is that ever after, it's still one of those things that, like 673 01:02:35.639 --> 01:02:38.920 I said, every documentary mentions the girl in the poconon dress, right, 674 01:02:42.320 --> 01:02:45.320 I mean, Sir Han is now at the point of time even in his 675 01:02:45.519 --> 01:02:49.400 hearings of saying, yes, I talked to this girl. I think she's 676 01:02:49.440 --> 01:02:53.199 suspicious. She may have had an influence on me. Now even Sir Han 677 01:02:53.320 --> 01:02:57.639 admits that he just won't name her, or says he won't name her. 678 01:02:58.400 --> 01:03:01.719 Yeah, it's over time. It's opened up to the fact that even he's 679 01:03:01.840 --> 01:03:08.840 admitting that someone may have used him at their succept. But obviously one of 680 01:03:08.880 --> 01:03:13.519 the reasons why you don't want to parole the man is if you parole the 681 01:03:13.599 --> 01:03:20.400 man, you open up all the questions about this investigation. And I would, 682 01:03:20.519 --> 01:03:24.079 by the way again and by two sentences probably worth a future episode. 683 01:03:25.239 --> 01:03:30.679 My old approach that Sirhan would be, I happen to think, you know 684 01:03:30.800 --> 01:03:36.079 a whole lot more about other people who were even loosely complicit in this. 685 01:03:37.480 --> 01:03:39.000 We don't think you shot this guy in the head, but we shoot We 686 01:03:39.199 --> 01:03:45.639 think you were part of a effort to kill people there, including probably him. 687 01:03:49.320 --> 01:03:52.039 We'll let you go, though, we'll commute your sentence because you didn't 688 01:03:52.159 --> 01:03:58.519 actually kill him. If you tell us everything you know, I don't know 689 01:03:58.559 --> 01:04:00.719 if that would work, but that's how I would handle it. Well. 690 01:04:00.800 --> 01:04:03.639 You also have to have a governor that's going to actually sign off on it 691 01:04:03.719 --> 01:04:09.239 too, which because that happened not long ago, it was just the governor 692 01:04:09.280 --> 01:04:13.039 could have signed off on it and he said no. So you know, 693 01:04:13.679 --> 01:04:17.119 it's one of those problems. The one thing that I would say is similar 694 01:04:17.719 --> 01:04:26.039 between Dallas and Los Angeles is that the system failed. I mean, in 695 01:04:26.239 --> 01:04:31.559 Dallas, the federal system failed to do its investigation. In LA, the 696 01:04:31.639 --> 01:04:36.800 state failed. And the problem is, we've talked to any number of people 697 01:04:38.519 --> 01:04:44.320 within you know, through Sir Han's attorneys. Everyone realized that the state did 698 01:04:44.480 --> 01:04:47.119 fail in the Sir hand case, and they failed because they wanted a quit 699 01:04:47.199 --> 01:04:53.840 conviction and it was political and somebody wanted to write coattails of that conviction, 700 01:04:54.360 --> 01:04:58.679 and the system failed. Unfortunately, the system failed both through Robert Kennedy and 701 01:04:58.840 --> 01:05:02.519 Sir Him, Sir Him, and look Stu. Just before we do get 702 01:05:02.599 --> 01:05:05.039 out of here, though, I would like you to give people a reference 703 01:05:05.119 --> 01:05:08.760 to go to check out some other work of yours, even if it's not 704 01:05:08.880 --> 01:05:14.159 associated it's tonight's topic. Uh, directly outside of the books that you know 705 01:05:14.280 --> 01:05:16.920 you co authored with Larry, you have what is that American gi Hot? 706 01:05:17.039 --> 01:05:21.119 I know it's on my bookshelf behind me here America's Secret gy hot is is 707 01:05:21.239 --> 01:05:26.280 my solo effort built on stuff that Larry and I did together, right, 708 01:05:26.920 --> 01:05:30.840 and that would be you could find articles related to it online and even I'm 709 01:05:30.880 --> 01:05:35.320 gonna do more to promote it. A podcast that was recently done about the 710 01:05:35.679 --> 01:05:42.239 individual chapters. But that's where I go, and then I should have I 711 01:05:42.320 --> 01:05:45.000 don't want to jink. Sit. In a couple of months, I can 712 01:05:45.079 --> 01:05:48.119 talk to you about what amounts to a follow up to it. It's going 713 01:05:48.199 --> 01:05:54.119 to be done in connection with a major American university. I'm putting out a 714 01:05:54.159 --> 01:05:59.760 report with some other folks. Wish I wasn't putting out this report with other 715 01:06:00.239 --> 01:06:03.199 because of the subject matter, but it's closely connected to this issue of domestic 716 01:06:03.320 --> 01:06:10.880 terrorism, uh and the potential threats going forward. Well, I certainly when 717 01:06:10.960 --> 01:06:15.880 you're prepared to discuss it, I definitely want to have just you on for 718 01:06:15.000 --> 01:06:19.159 that. Uh. More more than happy to go into it as as much 719 01:06:19.239 --> 01:06:24.440 time as you need and on a special day and time even if necessary. 720 01:06:24.559 --> 01:06:28.280 Whatever we got to do, I want to follow up on that, because 721 01:06:28.400 --> 01:06:31.400 unfortunately it's going to be very necessary to follow up on that. Yes, 722 01:06:32.039 --> 01:06:35.480 true, and I'll be happy to Yeah. So but but definitely. And 723 01:06:35.800 --> 01:06:40.039 meanwhile, look, if you see Stu Wexler's name on it, it's even 724 01:06:40.119 --> 01:06:44.639 better. So I love Larry's work for sure, But but you know, 725 01:06:44.760 --> 01:06:47.440 Stu has co authored plenty of stuff. I've talked about the MLK book before, 726 01:06:47.519 --> 01:06:50.639 I've talked about well, actually more than one MLK book on here. 727 01:06:51.559 --> 01:06:56.280 You know that that you two co authored, but also there's a bunch of 728 01:06:56.360 --> 01:06:59.840 other work that you're attached to there. But that is your solo effort, 729 01:07:00.360 --> 01:07:02.679 and I look forward to what we're going to see in the near future. 730 01:07:02.960 --> 01:07:08.400 And like I said, everybody, also at all times I recommend Larry Dashhancock 731 01:07:08.480 --> 01:07:12.840 dot com go there, follow his blog, many many books, too many 732 01:07:12.920 --> 01:07:15.880 to name here, But fact is, you know, just off topic, 733 01:07:15.960 --> 01:07:23.239 surprise attack, shadow warfare, creating chaos, unidentified, you know, where 734 01:07:23.280 --> 01:07:26.639 do we want to go? Someone would have talked anyway enough there, Larry. 735 01:07:27.039 --> 01:07:30.519 Always great to have you on and really happy that you came on on 736 01:07:30.599 --> 01:07:33.840 a Tuesday to do this, and especially thankful because we got to hear from 737 01:07:33.880 --> 01:07:38.960 Stu Wexler, who it's been too long still, so when we should do 738 01:07:39.039 --> 01:07:43.039 more shows, definitely please And when you're ready to come out with you know 739 01:07:43.159 --> 01:07:46.760 this new material. I definitely want to discuss that and anything else that you 740 01:07:46.880 --> 01:07:50.599 might be involved in in the near future. By all means, let me 741 01:07:50.760 --> 01:07:54.960 know. I'll be more than happy to discuss it with you. Promote if 742 01:07:55.000 --> 01:08:00.880 you're doing any appearances, any public lectures of any kind. Always happy to 743 01:08:00.320 --> 01:08:06.119 support your work, so please by all means, and not just because you 744 01:08:06.159 --> 01:08:12.400 know you got some Jersey roots or anything, but although that might help a 745 01:08:12.440 --> 01:08:15.719 little. But don't worry, Larry, I love it even though you're not 746 01:08:15.800 --> 01:08:19.159 from there, you know that. And anyway, I want to thank you 747 01:08:19.279 --> 01:08:23.279 guys and give you the opportunity to give sort of a you know, a 748 01:08:23.399 --> 01:08:27.039 final thought here if you like, starting with Larry and ending with Stu if 749 01:08:27.039 --> 01:08:30.319 you don't mind, and then we'll just close this one out. So Larry, 750 01:08:30.399 --> 01:08:32.319 you have a final thought you want to put on this. Yeah, 751 01:08:32.479 --> 01:08:35.600 I think the final thought is kind of the way you were setting Chuck. 752 01:08:35.680 --> 01:08:42.479 If if someone really wants to look at the history of the sixties, don't 753 01:08:42.520 --> 01:08:45.720 make it one don't make it one big thing and smear it all together. 754 01:08:46.399 --> 01:08:53.239 You need to look at the individual assassinations before you make assumptions. And I 755 01:08:53.319 --> 01:08:57.039 think that's one of The One of the things that Stu and I continually fight 756 01:08:57.159 --> 01:09:02.039 through is people make assumptions and connect things that aren't necessarily connected. Once you 757 01:09:02.119 --> 01:09:06.840 get into the details, it's easy to make assumptions at a very high level. 758 01:09:06.920 --> 01:09:12.359 Once you get into details, you start seeing the differences. Yeah. 759 01:09:12.439 --> 01:09:15.199 True, you know, Look, it's easy to do because the common thread 760 01:09:15.199 --> 01:09:18.199 of the Vietnam War, the common thread that you know, look, maybe 761 01:09:18.279 --> 01:09:21.920 his brother would have, in a new seat of power, had the ability 762 01:09:23.000 --> 01:09:28.359 to who knows, demand that some more investigation was done into his brother's murder. 763 01:09:29.279 --> 01:09:31.840 Those things I think are relevant, but it gets kind of convoluted when 764 01:09:31.840 --> 01:09:35.800 you go into oh, the Kennedy curse and all of that stuff. I 765 01:09:35.880 --> 01:09:40.800 mean, I know that there's some validity to it because it's kind of a 766 01:09:40.920 --> 01:09:45.039 lot of bad stuff happen here. But then again, you know, it's 767 01:09:45.119 --> 01:09:47.880 not exactly what it's all about. If you actually want to get to what 768 01:09:48.039 --> 01:09:51.039 happened here, you're not going to be able to do it by grouping it 769 01:09:51.119 --> 01:09:56.399 all together. You're right, Larry, So Stu, your final thoughts on 770 01:09:56.479 --> 01:10:01.039 this, I I would second what Larry just said. It gets to the 771 01:10:01.159 --> 01:10:10.640 point where it's almost a little bit lazy given how like incredibly capable and intelligent 772 01:10:10.720 --> 01:10:15.319 the people are who sort of fall into that trap. Oh, it's it's 773 01:10:15.359 --> 01:10:18.000 got to be the national security state, and it's got to be all three. 774 01:10:19.199 --> 01:10:24.439 And when you get down to brass tacks, and especially when you start 775 01:10:24.520 --> 01:10:30.399 getting into the nuances of the historical context of the relevant time period, it 776 01:10:30.520 --> 01:10:34.319 really doesn't add up. You could treat them each as separate. There's probably 777 01:10:34.640 --> 01:10:40.039 very very broadways in which they're connected, but not in the way that I 778 01:10:40.159 --> 01:10:45.279 think a lot of even some of the most well known researchers, you know, 779 01:10:45.159 --> 01:10:48.600 sometimes fall into that trap. So second, what Larry said, be 780 01:10:49.000 --> 01:10:55.920 nuanced and treat each as a case by case basis, and don't let your 781 01:10:55.960 --> 01:11:00.319 political ideology you know. Again, and it was a plot ideology, you 782 01:11:00.399 --> 01:11:03.640 know, Larry mayhad at the time. My father sure as that had. 783 01:11:04.399 --> 01:11:10.960 But it's very easy to let idology dictate evidence instead of let evidence lead you 784 01:11:11.000 --> 01:11:15.439 to conclusions. So that's just what I would say. Right again, I 785 01:11:15.520 --> 01:11:18.720 say, look, there are relevant points here, but they might be more 786 01:11:18.920 --> 01:11:24.279 symptomatic of the time period. It's only a five year stretch between you know, 787 01:11:24.439 --> 01:11:30.640 John F. Kennedy's assassination and King and Bobby Kennedy's assassinations, and they 788 01:11:30.680 --> 01:11:34.880 are all relevant to one another, but they are all completely separate circumstances. 789 01:11:35.479 --> 01:11:39.520 So, you know, again, to get to the brass tacks of it, 790 01:11:39.960 --> 01:11:43.239 it does take a separate investigation. You can't just sweep it all together. 791 01:11:44.000 --> 01:11:47.399 It doesn't necessarily mean the same parties are responsible, although you know what, 792 01:11:47.720 --> 01:11:51.840 some of the same parties might have benefited. But it's not always just 793 01:11:51.960 --> 01:11:56.680 a matter of key bono, right, it's it's a matter of Look, 794 01:11:56.960 --> 01:12:00.720 just because it was beneficial to somebody doesn't mean they were necess necessarily the active 795 01:12:00.800 --> 01:12:05.880 people who pulled it off. There may have been much more highly motivated individuals 796 01:12:05.920 --> 01:12:13.359 for reasons that are not necessarily connected to the others, although they might have 797 01:12:13.439 --> 01:12:15.560 been beneficial. Like I said, if you were, you know, somebody 798 01:12:15.720 --> 01:12:19.159 was in favor of the Vietnam War, you got no problem with John F. 799 01:12:19.239 --> 01:12:23.760 Kennedy, Martin Luther King Junior, and Bobby Kennedy all dying in that 800 01:12:23.920 --> 01:12:28.239 time period, because each one of them had a way of changing the tide 801 01:12:28.279 --> 01:12:30.960 of what it became if you were in favor of it. But it doesn't 802 01:12:31.000 --> 01:12:35.319 necessarily mean that that's the only motivation for this and it doesn't necessarily mean it's 803 01:12:35.399 --> 01:12:41.720 the same group. So anyway, I think that's all relevant, and I 804 01:12:41.800 --> 01:12:44.880 do look forward to doing this more in the future. Perhaps we'll get deeper 805 01:12:44.960 --> 01:12:47.399 into the con family next time and all that. But again I want to 806 01:12:47.399 --> 01:12:53.640 thank Larry Hancock, Stu Wexler and all of you for listening to this discussion 807 01:12:53.800 --> 01:12:58.840 about the RFK assassination and a couple of things there, right, the pokagont 808 01:12:58.880 --> 01:13:01.520 dress girl. Maybe there would been away to not have that be a mystery 809 01:13:01.960 --> 01:13:08.159 had there been a bit more of a meticulous follow through when it was handed 810 01:13:08.199 --> 01:13:12.600 over to the prosecution. And by the way, why not turn over some 811 01:13:12.760 --> 01:13:16.079 other stones and take a look at some of the other relevant family members and 812 01:13:16.119 --> 01:13:19.880 stuff like that, and connection to a weapon. I mean, look, 813 01:13:20.159 --> 01:13:24.640 there's still a lot more to learn and a lot more that could have been 814 01:13:24.680 --> 01:13:30.359 investigated as per usual. I am merely o'chelly. All of you are indeed 815 01:13:30.520 --> 01:13:32.119 the effect. Thank you, and good night.