WEBVTT

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You are listening to the IFH podcast
Network. For more amazing filmmaking and screenwriting

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podcasts, just go to IFH podcast
network dot com. Welcome to the Bulletproof

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00:00:13.720 --> 00:00:18.440
Screenwriting Podcast, Episode number three,
twenty six. I'm happy to do anything

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on a film set. Nick Frost
broadcasting from a dark, windowless room in

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Hollywood when we really should be working
on that next draft. It's the Bulletproof

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Screenwriting Podcast, showing you the craft
and business of screenwriting while teaching you how

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to make your screenplay bulletproof. And
here's your host, Alex Ferrari. Welcome,

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Welcome to another episode of the Bulletproof
Screenwriting Podcast. I am your humble

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host, Alex Ferrari. Now,
today's show is sponsored by Bulletproof Script Coverage.

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Now. Unlike other script coverage services, Bulletproof Script Coverage actually focuses on

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so we actually break it down by
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today's episode with guest host Jason Buff. We're continuing our interviews with horror filmmakers

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with Danny Draven. This is one
of this. This is like a masterclass

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in horror filmmaking. Danny is not
only a horror filmmaker, but he's also

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the author of the phenomenal horror filmmaking
book called The Filmmaker's Book of the Dead,

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and it's now in its second edition. If you want to learn filmmaking,

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horror filmmaking specifically, go get that. I think it's available on Amazon.

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Check it out. It's full of
pictures. It's it's really like over

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the top in terms of like all
the value, all the great things that

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are in this book. Let me
get going with Danny. This is a

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huge interview, about two hours,
so I was going to break it up

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into two different episodes, and I
just decided to go ahead and put it

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out there as one and you can
kind of listen to the first half when

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you have time, or maybe if
you have a two hour car drive or

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something. You're gonna get a lot
out of this episode. I certainly did

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and learn a lot about how the
indie film making world works, especially the

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indie horror film work. So check
it out, hope you enjoy. Like

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I have all these questions that I've
just been coming up with on my own,

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but what I was thinking we could
do was just kind of go through

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the different parts of the first book, just I mean, going strictly on

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the the table of contents and just
kind of do a brief description of kind

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of those different aspects of making a
horror film and then just kind of go

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from there, you know, and
just use that as the framework. And

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obtusly, I don't want you to
go, you know, so far into

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it. I mean, the thing
that I found is that usually the more

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into it you get, the more
interested people get in you know, buying

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the book, and like, you
know, sure, anyway, I did

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have one guy I talked to not
too long ago who was like, yeah,

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you know, if you read my
book, I'll tell you all about

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that. You know. It's like, come on, dude, I hear

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I hear you. No, totally, I'm happy to I don't. I

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don't do that. I just you
just ask me whatever you want. I'll

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tell you whatever I could, whatever
comes to mind. You know, if

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they buy the book, great,
If not, it doesn't you know,

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when I when I get a twenty
dollars royalty check in the mail, it

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doesn't you know, it's not about
the money. So it really isn't this

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this book. I'm that this the
the first edition is actually very simple.

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I mean the second edition is just
enhancements to the first. So it's only

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you know, it's about one hundred
and I don't know, a hundred and

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forty pages more than the first edition, and a lot of that is just

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newer interviews, and a lot of
the information has been updated, so the

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chapters are all really the same.
I only think I only added really want

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it's just the information was updated considerably
because it was out a day because it

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was five years old. But and
and a lot of new really good interviews

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with people like Nick Garris and Kate
Hotter and all these other dudes, and

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which is just pretty much the big
difference, and it's got a really good

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overhaul as far as like a lot
more artwork was added, like a lot

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of really cool like grindhouse art just
just for I candy, really stuff like

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that. So it's it's a fun
it's it's the it is by far the

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definitive best edition of that book and
probably the last. And and and it'll

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it'll has a hardcover edition, which
is which is really cool and it's a

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little it's kind of expensive, but
it's they do have a hardcover one that

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which is kind of cool for it. But but anyway, yeah, so

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it's it's very so whatever we we
ever talked about with the book, it's

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it's very similar to the second it's
just more updated as all. Well,

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I mean, that might be a
good jumping in point. What what do

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you consider the major things that have
changed from the first book to the second

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book? What technology and distribution mainly
because you know, the film filmmaking process

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is really still it has been kind
of the same for you know, one

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hundred years. It's just you know, just the technology has has has changed

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to the point you know where particularly
in my in my book, it has

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to do when I change was the
distribution chapters, which is that's different with

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digital distribution and everything, and uh
and particularly uh some of the stuff in

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the production because because the cameras have
gotten better, bigger, smaller and shoot

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higher, higher quality, you know. And so I think it's just mainly

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the technology stuff in the book is
the biggest update. And and the interviews,

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because I added about well, I
don't know, maybe ten people I

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think. I mean, I mean, there were really good interviews because these

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guys are working professional filmmakers. I
mean, I got Mick Garrison, I

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sat down and had a great lunch
and we just we we had this like

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two hour interview, and I think
in the book it's like eight nine pages

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and there really good insightful questions.
I had an awesome, awesome interview with

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big time composer John Outman and editor
we and that's like a ten page interview

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is really good. John Debney,
the composer John Debney, and Tboard Takas,

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the guy who directed The Gate and
Spider's three D. And he did

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a really good one too, because
I know him. I edited a movie

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for him years ago for Sci Fi
Channel, and I remember when I was

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editing it with him. He was
checking his phone and he was making Mega

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Snake at the time, and he
was showing me some of his stories.

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He was showing he was showing me
some of his storyboards, and I was

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like, because we were just sitting
in the editing and I was like,

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oh, that's pretty cool. You
know, this is pretty cool storyboards.

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So then like literally like, well, I don't know if it's eight years

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later when I decided to interview him. I was like, hey, man,

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you still have those Mega Snakes storyboards
because that was for you. Those

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things are really well done and I
should put those in the book. And

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so so that the there's this one
scene where the snake eats this guy and

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it's the exact storyboards that they did
for their show for the film. So

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you get his interview and then you
get like, you know, the six

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pages of these really beautiful storyboards that
they did for it, and then you

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get the frame grabs from the movie
when how they actually shot it, and

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and yeah, just stuff like that. I got a really good interview with

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some other producers, Mark Rodeski and
doing fleming from they did Exists. You

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know, the big big flip movie
that Eduardo Sanchez did they were producers on

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that, and and there's uh,
Mike Mendez, he's sitting there now,

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director of Big Ass Spider and all
right, yeah, yeah, exactly.

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Yeah, he's a he's a great
guy. And I'm oh boy, Kane

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Hotter, Michael Berryman and I know, I think I'm probably missing a few

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people, but but anyway, it's
it's it's think. One of the things

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people, one of the things that
people really enjoyed about this book is is

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the interviews, especially from the first
edition. I mean, all the information

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there is is great anyway, but
but the interviews really kind of drove it

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home for people because you're you're you're
hearing really good advice from people who were

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actually, you know, working out
and working professionals in Hollywood. So it

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was a favorite in the first edition. So I decided in the second one,

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I just want to add a lot
more. So that's what we did.

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You have the same interviews from the
first book as well, or is

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it like, okay, now,
I know you interviewed James One and the

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first book, right, yeah,
yeah, no, yeah, he's still

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he's still in there, all of
I think you want to keep him in

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there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's actually edited him before

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he you know, back when he
was making like I think it was the

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first Instidious or something like that.
It was a while ago when we when

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we talked about it, right,
So he did a really good interview,

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and uh, everybody's the same.
It's it's I think I had to remove

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one person because it was just what
they were talking about was like so outdated

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that I just had got removed.
But other than that, it's all the

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same people, plus you know,
can or twelve people that I've added.

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So is there anything that kind of
sticks out at you, like something that

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just kind of blew your mind with
an interview or somebody who just kind of

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like, you know, said something
to you that you didn't really know beforehand,

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or I don't know, just kind
of like you know, sometimes you

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talk to one of these filmmakers and
it's just like, oh wow, you

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know that's something Yeah, surely,
sure, absolutely, I mean we I

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mean when you when I talking,
when I talked to say, like somebody

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like mc garris or somebody, and
I'm asking any specific questions about how he

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how he directs actors and what his
process is like and all that's it's different

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for everyone you know, but but
you know, his his answers were were

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very insightful and uh and you know, not all of them made him into

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the book, but the ones that
did, I thought were the we'll be

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right back after a word from our
sponsor and now back to the show,

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we're the most insightful ones. And
it just it's just really even even as

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the the interviewer, I mean,
I'm I'm like, oh, wow,

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I didn't that's that's interesting. That's
how you do, that's how he works.

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And then I see how how how
somebody like uh t board works or

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some or or or or what what
Kane Hotter was thinking when he when he

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decided to uh uh play the character
of Jason and what he did to make

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it a scary character. And he
would answer that question and things like that,

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because the guy's usually the guy's like
Kane Hotter and Robert England and Michael

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Berriman and all these guys that have
played uh, you know, monsters,

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I always ask them what their process
was like as an actor to really develop

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that character. It's because it because
it's all great horror movie monsters are more

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than just you know, guy sticking
a mask on or a guy in a

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glove. There's a lot more behind
it, and to understand their process was

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was very insightful. And and that's
what I that's what I think you get

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when you read these interviews in this
book, as you really see like,

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wow, Robert England really, you
know, he really had a method to

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how he portrayed Freddie, you know, and same thing with Jason, and

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the same thing with Pluto and Hills
have Eyes you know, and all that

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stuff. So so it's it's it's
it's it's a good it's a it's a

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fun conversation. It's just kind of
like two guys out, you know,

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sitting at a bar having a beer
talking about there making movies. And that's

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kind of the style of the of
the interview. But can you share a

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little bit about the health of that, like what what you know or just

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the whole concept of directing actors in
a you know, a horror movie,

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whether it be the the Good Guys
or the monsters or whatever, the whole

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the whole idea of of of directing
the monsters for for I'm sorry, what

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you what you mean? Like the
uh, well, what is your approach?

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What and what what did you learn
from these people. What is your

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approach and what are some things that
you've learned from talking to directors about directing.

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You know, monsters are directing actors
in general? Oh, I sewage

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that. Well. I think I
think it's it's it's it's it's certainly going

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to be different for every director,
But I think instinct has a lot to

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do with it. You know when
when when when directing actors, you know,

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it's it's instinctual. It's uh,
it's it's trying, you know,

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not not my styles. I'm very
much like an actors director, and I

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I don't I mean, I have
the technical background, no doubt, you

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know, because I want to post
company and I've been an editor for I've

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edited more movies than I care to
remember. But but when you combine the

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sort of technical background with the actors, uh, when you win you understand

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actors, I think it really can
make you a very strong director. Because

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a lot of people they come out
of films school or they come out of

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they get into their first film and
they they they're they're they're scared of actors

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and they're scared of of the of
the process. It's kind of like,

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okay, well, just they just
talk to an actor like they're like they're

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they're a puppet, Like, okay, you will you say this line and

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you stand here and then you walk
over here, and then the camera's gonna

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push into your face and and then
you're gonna walk off screen. Okay,

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you got it, and then you
act just like oh okay, and then

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you know they can, they can, you know, do it and do

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what you're talking about. But that
you know that that's not really directing,

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you know, that's just technically you
know, you're choreographing the scene. You're

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just blocking the scene at that point. So so you know, my process

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has always been to to really take
care with the actors and to really you

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know, spend a lot of time
with them and and just be there for

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whatever they need because you know,
and and and and give them what they

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need from a director so like they
can play the scene properly and uh and

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and have the technical understanding to communicate
to the crew and to the So that's

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my that's my process. It's kind
of you know a little of both.

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Some people are just completely technical.
You know. It's just like they hire,

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you know, I'll certainly it's always
going to hire the best actors you

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can afford, and you just kind
of most of the time if you hire

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an actor of that caliber that you
don't they don't need to do much at

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all. It's just sit back and
watch it happen because they're so amazing and

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they get it, you know.
And other times, you know, they

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need a lot more and they do
need that push and that technical direction.

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You know, maybe maybe it's their
first film. They don't know how to

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hit a mark, you know.
So so yeah, So what do you

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do if you get in a situation
where you've hired somebody and everybody's there,

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you know, the whole crew,
and everything's lit, and the actor just

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isn't giving the right performance or it's
just not working. Is there any like

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trick you have or what what goes
through your mind as a director? Oh?

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Well, well, I think if
everything you look, if you're on

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the set, everything slit and then
the actor's coming out. It's a lot

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of times it's the first time.
You a lot of times there's no especially

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in the budget movies, there's there
wasn't really any rehearsal. It's it's,

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uh, it is the first time
that you're doing the scene, and uh,

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what sounded good on what sounded good
on paper, what sounded good in

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your head is certainly not what's happening. And so, you know, you

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get there and you see him do
it, and you're like, oh,

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oh Jesus, you know. I
mean I've been I've been a situation where

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I'm like, I was like,
I don't I don't even think we cast

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the right person. So so then
you're so then you're like, oh,

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man, okay, but well,
you know, what are you gonna do?

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You're you know, you're already hired. They were there in front of

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you, You got Drew and everybody
there, and you you're kind of like,

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yeah, he probably wasn't the right
choice, but this is what I

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have to work with. So let's
let's do the best we can with what

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we have, you know. So, I mean, I've been definitely been

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in that situation. But I think, you know, if if you're in

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a situation where they're where they're not
an actor's not giving you what they want,

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the best thing to do is to
pull them aside, you know,

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don't talk in front of the whole
crew, but to pull them aside,

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you know, and and talk to
them about what you're certainly do you know

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do don't criticize, don't yell,
don't be an ass. But is to

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to set the person aside and just
tell them what you're looking for in the

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scene, and don't overdirect them.
Just tell them what the intention is in

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the scene, what what how their
characters relate to one another, maybe what

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what the scene is about, you
know, and let the actor be the

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one that interprets what you're saying and
adjust their performance based on what based on

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that. The worst thing you can
do is to go up to an actor

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and give them a lineary No,
I want you to a line like like

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this, you know, I mean
the actor looking at you like little bag,

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you know what I mean? Like? You know, they're not They're

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not puppets. You know, they're
not marionettes. You know. There's not

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people that you can just you know, a program, you know. So

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a good direct thing is is just
really understanding the process, their their process,

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respecting their process, and being able
to communicate to them in the actors

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language. And if you can do
that, you're you'll be you know,

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you'll want one. The actors will
love you forever and too, You're gonna

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you're gonna have a you're gonna have
a great performance, and the worst thing

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you could do in that situation is
to is to try to go out there

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and act it for them. It's
like, no, okay, let me

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show you how to do it,
and then you go no, you come

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over here, and then you say
this line, you say it like this,

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and then you turn around. You
know what I mean. It's like,

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that's not that's not how it gets. So yeah, I mean,

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I guess that would be my sort
of advice for for for handling a situation

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like that. Okay, now you
know this. The podcast is primarily geared

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towards people who are most likely outside
of LA and want to make their own

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feature film, and a lot of
people you know, and I also think

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that one of the best plate ways
to get into the industry and have one

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feature you know, that actually has
some success financially is to try and make

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you know, horror film, just
because there's a built in audience and there's

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you know, you don't necessarily need
the biggest stars and everything. So what

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I was hoping we could do is
just kind of walk through the process of

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where things begin, what you need
to get started, you know, maybe

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more towards the producer's side of it. You know, when you're coming up

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with a project, I mean,
how much are you do you go to

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like somebody in distribution and like pitch
ideas or how does it all work so

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that you know that at the end
of the whole thing you're going to know

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kind of where that production is going
to go. Well, yeah, that's

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a great question. I mean,
that's that's yeah. I mean every every

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every project that you do. I
mean, like if you're if it's your

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first one thing you have to understand, if you're if you're getting into film

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and filmmaking and a periods, you
have to understand that it is a business.

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You know, it's a it's a
you know, you're there, you're

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making a picture to to get take
with the intention of of it being seen.

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It's a business. It has to
be something marketable and sellable and and

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and of high quality. If you're
now, if you're coming out, if

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you're doing something on your own and
you want to do like a little movie

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that you're it's just for yourself and
maybe it's an art piece or something like

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that, that's fine, and you
can do whatever you want. But uh,

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and in my in my book and
the stuff that I'll talk to you

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about today is from an entertainment perspective, from a business perspective of of of

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if we're making a movie, we're
making it. Yeah, we're making a

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movie to tell a great story.
We're making a movie to to make a

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cool movie. Though all that is
there, but we're also making a movie

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that we're we're going to be able
to get distributed and seen because at the

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end of the day, we want
people to see and like our work,

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and and and and hopefully make sequels, you know, after sequel. So

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with that in mind, you know, you're you know, always think that

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you're you're you know, remember that
it is a business. So start out

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with something that will be right back
after a word from our sponsor and now

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back to the show. You know, a horror is a great genre to

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start, in no doubt because it's
a it's kind of an evergreen genre.

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It's it's something that is always has
always been successful at the box office.

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I mean, you know, whether
people, you know, turn their nose

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up to it or not, the
fact is is that horror does extremely well

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at the box office. And you
know that can be seen with movies like

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The Conjuring or you know how many
other horror movies that have come out that

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have just really done well. So
so you know, if you're if you're

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starting out, I think that coming
up with one an original great concept to

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start with, and you don't you
don't have to. It's it's a it

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is a good idea to think about
distribution and think about what you're where you're

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going to go with it, you
know, early on, because you don't

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want to get too too far into
to pre production or production and start not

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even knowing what genre you're in.
You're kind of like, well, I'm

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not sure. It could be a
horror comedy. It could be a comedy,

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it could be just horror. You
really want to have a definitive plan.

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Okay, we're making a low budget
slasher film, we're making a zombie

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comedy. Okay. And you and
then you know what you're you're you're you're

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making. You do your research,
you do your homework, you watch,

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you see all the films that have
been made on that subject, who they've

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been distributed by, that sort of
thing, and you and you just you

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you you really come up with you
really know what's out there and what the

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market's like and uh, and you
make and you make the film, you

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know, I mean you now what
Let me ask one a quick question,

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sure, just just out of curiosity, is the primary where's the primary place

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that you do research of that nature? Is it IMDb? Or is it

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just you know, do you have
some other place that you see you know,

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all the different horror films that are
releasing, how much you know,

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who's the distribution company and all that. Is it just IMDb or is it

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you know, somewhere else that you
look for that. Well, there's a

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lot of places that you can look, especially with the Internet. I mean

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you certainly the IMDb is a great
resource. You know, read you know,

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read the trades, you look I
mean I read the trades. I

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read you know, Hollywood Reporter and
Variety. You know, you know who's

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making what they're making what what,
who's who's remaking what you're coming down the

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line if you've been from the studio
level, you there's a home media magazine

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that's a really great resource to see
like kind of what's coming out on DVD,

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what's coming out on Blu ray.
You know, that's a good one

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to read and see what's performing well. What's you know on home video that

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sort of thing, you know,
and and and the internet and IMDb.

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I mean those are really you don't
think you read to need to get you

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don't need to go crazy with it. But you know, if you just

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get an idea of of of of
Okay, are there any zombie movies coming

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out anytime soon or what you know, what what's how are they doing?

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And is it uh you know,
are they are they being distributed? And

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if they are, who buy you
know that sort of thing. So yeah,

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you just do do do your research
before you go out and uh and

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make one. Because if there's if
there's something coming out or some some other

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guy and it happens so often,
so many people are making movies like all

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that guy I made that one that's
just like mine, damn it, you

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know, and you know it's it's
so it happens, but it's good.

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It's it's good to have more than
one idea too. So if you if

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you're like, well, maybe it's
not a good time we could make the

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film, but maybe it's not a
good time to make it right now,

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you know, maybe we'll make it
like next year and then the meantime we'll

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make this other project that we had
in mind, you know, and let

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let the let it, let the
let it cool off, because you know,

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if that the movie comes out and
and everybody hates that that sub genre

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of horror, I mean, I
mean, you know, then you know,

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probably not a good idea to go
out and make another found footage movie.

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You know. So look, I
mean I made a found footage film,

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and the whole and honestly the whole
reason we made that. I didn't

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want to make a found footage film. I didn't. I never intended on

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making a found footage film, you
know, not not I It was just

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it actually was a project that came
to me and it was like, hey,

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we need to make a found footage
film. And I'm like, found

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footage film. I was like,
you know, well it didn't Blair Witch

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to do that. Why why would
we make a found potashelm Well, you

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know, it's kind of really popular, you know again, you know,

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because you know, I got paranormal
and you know, a peronal activity and

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you know what the reck wreck movies
were and all that stuff. And I

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was like, yeah, those are
great, those are like, you know,

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million dollars. I mean, not
Blair, but you know, rack

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and stuff like that. I mean, you know, they had they had

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pretty big budgets for the for those
found footage films, and and uh it

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was like yeah, but the market
was was doing it was hot for those

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at that time, and we had
some inside you know, uh uh contacts

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for when when it came to distribution, and it was kind of like,

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hey, you know, so we
make this found footage film, it's it's

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gonna get distributed and it's gonna do
it's it's a good time for it.

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So we end up making so and
that's how kind of really that movie Filmed

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Realiable or now aka Spectors was made. And and uh so did they come

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with did they come to you?
Like I was just talking to uh,

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Scott Kirpatrick about how they build a
project and then they'll hire you know,

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a screenwriter, they'll hire a director
and everybody else. I mean, they've

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already kind of sold the project to
the distribution company before they even you know,

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put together the screenplay. Is that
pretty common? No? I don't

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think it's I don't I mean,
I don't think it's common in the lobo

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on the low budget kind of level. I don't think it's that common to

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really sell the project, like like
sell the project as far as like distribution

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rights, I mean, and didn't
go make the movie, you know.

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I mean I think it used to
be like that, maybe back in the

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nineties and stuff, where they would
sell foreign you know, you sell these

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pre sales, you know, based
on artwork like Full Moon used to do

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back in the day. You know, it'd be like, hey, here's

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an art working at title. You
guys interested, and then they'd be like,

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yeah, we love it, and
then they would you know, advance

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advance most of the budget that they
would need to go make the film.

401
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But these days, you know,
especially at on the lower budgeted level,

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it's it's uh, you know,
especially if you don't have it, if

403
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you don't have a star attached to
forget it. I mean, who's gonna

404
00:26:18.400 --> 00:26:21.559
Who's gonna The distribution companies like who's
in it? And they're like, well,

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00:26:21.599 --> 00:26:25.160
nobody, my my brother or my
sister. You know, they're not

406
00:26:25.200 --> 00:26:27.519
gonna You're not gonna get money from
a distributor. Now if you come to

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00:26:27.559 --> 00:26:30.319
them and say, you know,
Nicholas Cage is attached to it, yes,

408
00:26:30.440 --> 00:26:33.279
you know that, but you're talking
about a whole different level of filmmaking

409
00:26:33.319 --> 00:26:38.960
at that point. But I'm talking
on an indie level with with with that's

410
00:26:40.000 --> 00:26:41.640
just safe for the sake of this
conversation, that there's no stars in it

411
00:26:42.160 --> 00:26:45.559
and you're just making it with you
know, some talent, talented actors that

412
00:26:45.599 --> 00:26:51.480
you find, but there's no there's
no recognizable name in it. Your money

413
00:26:51.559 --> 00:26:55.519
is not most likely not kind of
be coming from your distribution from a distribution

414
00:26:55.559 --> 00:26:57.920
company, unless you're self distributing,
but in that case, it's coming from

415
00:26:57.920 --> 00:27:03.759
you anyway. So you know,
yeah, it's it's it's not common,

416
00:27:03.759 --> 00:27:10.400
it's it's more what's more common,
is you? I mean, look,

417
00:27:10.440 --> 00:27:15.519
I mean it's the company. The
distribution company is often sometimes on the lower

418
00:27:15.519 --> 00:27:21.200
budget stuff that the distribution company is
often the financing company as well, so

419
00:27:21.240 --> 00:27:25.200
it's kind of their own project anyway, but they're the one making that.

420
00:27:25.279 --> 00:27:27.200
It's general what kind of movie they're
making. I mean like Full Moon for

421
00:27:27.240 --> 00:27:32.400
instance, Fullmen Pictures. I mean, they're they're kind of their own distribution

422
00:27:32.759 --> 00:27:36.880
company, and they will now especially
now because they have Fullmen streaming dot com,

423
00:27:36.880 --> 00:27:38.640
which is where they stream all their
latest projects. But I mean,

424
00:27:38.680 --> 00:27:42.480
his that whole business model is kind
of like you know, they make their

425
00:27:42.480 --> 00:27:47.160
own product and they distribute their own
product. You know, they make a

426
00:27:47.160 --> 00:27:49.880
new film and it comes out through
their their website, their streaming website.

427
00:27:49.880 --> 00:27:55.559
And that's a that's a big thing
now too with with like the BMEO in

428
00:27:55.640 --> 00:27:57.720
demand and all that stuff. Is
you can you can go out and make

429
00:27:57.759 --> 00:28:03.279
a film and put it up on
a site like Vimeo on demand and people

430
00:28:03.400 --> 00:28:06.400
and you can send people there and
they can pay to stream your movie or

431
00:28:06.400 --> 00:28:10.319
they can pay to download your movie. And it's a great it's a great

432
00:28:10.359 --> 00:28:15.880
distribution method. But you know,
you still you can you can you can

433
00:28:15.960 --> 00:28:18.680
lead the horse to water, but
you can't necessarily make them drink it,

434
00:28:18.759 --> 00:28:23.640
you know, so you still have
to have a higher quality product for people

435
00:28:23.720 --> 00:28:26.960
to uh to want to go there
and stream it and buy it. You

436
00:28:27.000 --> 00:28:32.720
know. So yeah, I'm answered
a little bit of your question there.

437
00:28:32.960 --> 00:28:34.440
Yeah, No, it's perfect.
You know, I just I get obsessed

438
00:28:34.480 --> 00:28:40.640
because you know, I always try
to put together this magic formula for you

439
00:28:40.680 --> 00:28:42.519
know. You know, I've talked
to some people that work in distribution and

440
00:28:42.519 --> 00:28:45.359
they're just like, yeah, man, it's just so oversaturated now. And

441
00:28:45.400 --> 00:28:48.720
I know all these people who have
lost tons of money because they went out

442
00:28:48.759 --> 00:28:52.000
and they made these you know,
horror movies for like, you know,

443
00:28:52.599 --> 00:28:56.200
half a million dollars, and then
they got to the distribution and it was

444
00:28:56.319 --> 00:29:02.680
like they you know, they just
lost everything because it wasn't like the right

445
00:29:02.720 --> 00:29:06.039
thing. So so one of the
things that I try to help people with

446
00:29:06.160 --> 00:29:10.400
and also myself, you know,
is like figuring out you know, maybe

447
00:29:10.480 --> 00:29:14.519
we can talk for a second about
you know, budgeting and how much money

448
00:29:14.559 --> 00:29:18.039
you know, more or less kind
of what things are you know, should

449
00:29:18.079 --> 00:29:19.559
be priced at, because I know
people who go out and make their first

450
00:29:19.599 --> 00:29:23.640
movie for you know, one hundred
thousand, two hundred thousand dollars, and

451
00:29:25.160 --> 00:29:26.119
you know, I've heard other people
like, you know, just do it

452
00:29:26.160 --> 00:29:30.039
as cheap as you possibly can,
because at the end of the day,

453
00:29:30.319 --> 00:29:33.319
if you don't get distribution, then
you haven't lost your shirt, you know.

454
00:29:33.839 --> 00:29:36.960
So what does your take on that
in terms of just like budgeting save

455
00:29:37.079 --> 00:29:41.000
somebody in you know, Middle America
whatever you know, is like wants to

456
00:29:41.039 --> 00:29:45.240
make a horror movie and wants to
try and like maybe take it to AFM

457
00:29:45.400 --> 00:29:48.119
or something or whatever. You know, what kind of advice, what what

458
00:29:48.240 --> 00:29:52.400
kind of budget range? How how
should that all be broken down when they're

459
00:29:52.559 --> 00:29:56.359
first starting out and trying to produce
a film. We'll be right back after

460
00:29:56.400 --> 00:30:04.599
a word from our sponsor, and
now back to the show. Yeah,

461
00:30:04.640 --> 00:30:12.000
sure, yeah totally. But just
just to add to to your distribution comment

462
00:30:12.200 --> 00:30:15.640
about the people who made who've lost
money, I mean, believe me.

463
00:30:15.960 --> 00:30:21.359
I mean, I I know so
many people that have have have lost a

464
00:30:21.440 --> 00:30:23.559
lot, you know, I mean, including myself. You know, when

465
00:30:23.559 --> 00:30:26.519
I've I've pulled out the credit cards
and you know, I've done the whole

466
00:30:27.200 --> 00:30:32.000
massive, massive credit card debt for
films, you know, for years trying

467
00:30:32.039 --> 00:30:36.240
to pay them off, and for
ship that wasn't even my wasn't even fine.

468
00:30:36.519 --> 00:30:38.039
It was just stuff I I wanted
to pay for out of my own

469
00:30:38.039 --> 00:30:41.799
pocket to make it better. And
I didn't even own the rights to it,

470
00:30:41.839 --> 00:30:42.240
and I was paying for stuff.
I mean, I mean, it's

471
00:30:42.279 --> 00:30:45.559
just really stupid stuff like that early
on. But but I mean that,

472
00:30:45.920 --> 00:30:49.359
but but but yeah, people have
lost a lot when it comes to distribution.

473
00:30:49.599 --> 00:30:53.160
So when when it comes to I
mean thinking that Okay, well we're

474
00:30:53.160 --> 00:30:56.359
gonna spend all this money, but
we're then we're gonna go out. Yeah,

475
00:30:56.400 --> 00:31:00.319
We're totally gonna get it distributed.
I mean especially now, I mean

476
00:31:00.359 --> 00:31:03.359
it doesn't it's just not like that
anymore. I mean, it's it's it

477
00:31:03.440 --> 00:31:08.119
is absolutely oversaturated. It has been
for a long time. So you know,

478
00:31:08.200 --> 00:31:12.759
your your product needs to stand out
if you're going to even have a

479
00:31:12.920 --> 00:31:18.960
have a really good chance of of
of a really good distribution deal. And

480
00:31:18.960 --> 00:31:22.160
and you know, just just going
out with some friends and shooting a splasher

481
00:31:22.160 --> 00:31:26.440
over the weekend, you know,
and you you max your credit cards out

482
00:31:26.480 --> 00:31:29.240
for forty grand or whatever. You
know, you really can't expect to be

483
00:31:29.240 --> 00:31:33.119
getting that back, you know.
And and I always say, you know,

484
00:31:33.160 --> 00:31:36.519
look, don't don't invest. Don't
invest more than you can afford to

485
00:31:36.519 --> 00:31:41.160
lose, because it's a very very
big possibility that you'll lose all of it

486
00:31:41.279 --> 00:31:44.319
or you or you might get it
distributed, but you won't necessarily get the

487
00:31:44.400 --> 00:31:47.720
money back. I mean, because
you know, when when a company and

488
00:31:47.759 --> 00:31:49.799
distribution company takes over your your movie, they might give you a little bit

489
00:31:49.880 --> 00:31:52.119
of an advance. If you're lucky, it give you a little bit of

490
00:31:52.119 --> 00:31:56.119
advance like say, okay, well
we'll give you two grand of the advance

491
00:31:56.480 --> 00:32:00.000
and then you'll never see another dime
ever again. And that's happened to me

492
00:32:00.240 --> 00:32:01.880
on on on films that I've done, and it's like, we you know,

493
00:32:02.000 --> 00:32:05.200
the company goes out of business and
it's like, hey, what have

494
00:32:05.279 --> 00:32:07.440
you know what happened to those guys? Oh, they change the name of

495
00:32:07.480 --> 00:32:10.279
their company again. It's like,
oh, well, we need to see

496
00:32:10.319 --> 00:32:14.240
statements, We need to see a
producer statement. No, you know,

497
00:32:14.279 --> 00:32:16.440
we can't do that for you.
So all the money that you've seen is

498
00:32:16.720 --> 00:32:21.240
is you know, the advance,
you know, And and it sucks for

499
00:32:21.279 --> 00:32:25.119
the filmmaker because you know, at
that point your movie has already been distributed.

500
00:32:25.240 --> 00:32:28.440
You know, you can get yeah, sure you can get the rights

501
00:32:28.480 --> 00:32:32.039
back and try to re redistribute it
and everything at that point, but you

502
00:32:32.079 --> 00:32:37.119
know, it's it's kind of used
goods at that point, you know what

503
00:32:37.160 --> 00:32:40.359
I'm saying. So yeah, I
mean yeah, So when you're when you're

504
00:32:40.359 --> 00:32:45.680
going out of the gate, I
mean it's it's just really be careful with

505
00:32:45.119 --> 00:32:51.119
the amount of money that you're you're
committing to something, and uh and I

506
00:32:51.160 --> 00:32:53.680
think you'll you'll you'll live after your
life and when you if if something,

507
00:32:54.000 --> 00:32:57.480
if something doesn't work out the way
it's supposed to, when it comes to

508
00:32:57.519 --> 00:33:04.720
distribution. But coming going back to
your your your your budget question. You

509
00:33:04.720 --> 00:33:09.559
know you asked me how how to
how to what's some you know what some

510
00:33:09.599 --> 00:33:15.799
budget tricks are for for uh,
for somebody to want coming out definitely.

511
00:33:16.640 --> 00:33:22.440
Well, first of all is uh
is if you're if you're is to spend

512
00:33:22.519 --> 00:33:27.240
it trying to spend as less money
as you possibly make can. I mean

513
00:33:27.240 --> 00:33:30.640
you really have to kind of be
don't be annoying, don't be a moocher,

514
00:33:30.759 --> 00:33:34.960
you know, but but whatever,
you have to sit down and on

515
00:33:35.000 --> 00:33:37.960
a piece of paper and write down
all the things that that you, your

516
00:33:37.960 --> 00:33:43.680
friends, your family have available that
you can use for free. Then then

517
00:33:43.720 --> 00:33:45.559
what you do You sit down and
say, okay, well I have a

518
00:33:45.720 --> 00:33:51.000
I have my parents house, I
have a lake. There's some public lands

519
00:33:51.079 --> 00:33:53.519
that they're they nobody cares that we
shoot there. There's that old abandoned building

520
00:33:53.559 --> 00:33:57.319
that we could totally shoot at.
You know, we have a boat,

521
00:33:57.400 --> 00:34:00.799
we have a car, you know, we have my mom's a teacher,

522
00:34:00.920 --> 00:34:04.359
and maybe I can shoot at the
school or something like that. So you

523
00:34:04.400 --> 00:34:07.359
write all those things down on a
piece of paper, of all the things

524
00:34:07.440 --> 00:34:09.559
that that that that you have for
free, and and it can be other

525
00:34:09.559 --> 00:34:13.480
things too that you can put in
the scene, like oh, uncle Bob

526
00:34:13.519 --> 00:34:19.199
has a Lamborghini or someone still say, uh, you know has a has

527
00:34:19.280 --> 00:34:22.599
a an AK forty seven or so, I don't know whatever it is.

528
00:34:23.119 --> 00:34:25.840
And you write all those things down
and then and then what you do is

529
00:34:25.880 --> 00:34:28.559
you look at all that stuff.
You put it up on a board,

530
00:34:28.559 --> 00:34:30.440
and you can look at all that
stuff and say, what kind of movie

531
00:34:30.519 --> 00:34:34.320
could I make with all of these
things? What kind of story? Or

532
00:34:34.320 --> 00:34:36.719
maybe I already have a story,
but it so if I already have a

533
00:34:36.760 --> 00:34:38.639
story, can I look at all
those elements and say, how can I

534
00:34:38.679 --> 00:34:43.719
incorporate all that into my story?
Can my story take place at that house,

535
00:34:44.119 --> 00:34:46.920
at that at that on that boat, in that car? Can I

536
00:34:47.000 --> 00:34:51.519
can? I can? I you
know, can I rewrite it for that?

537
00:34:52.760 --> 00:34:54.159
And I think if you can do
that, and if you're willing to

538
00:34:54.159 --> 00:34:59.920
compromise whatever it is to to adjust
your story to what you have available,

539
00:35:00.079 --> 00:35:01.360
you can get for free. I
think you'll save a lot. You'll save

540
00:35:01.400 --> 00:35:05.440
a ton of money. I mean, I I was. I do that

541
00:35:05.559 --> 00:35:08.920
pretty much for every film. But
it's it's it's it's a process that's kind

542
00:35:08.960 --> 00:35:13.320
of like you know, hey,
man, you know, let's not let's

543
00:35:13.360 --> 00:35:15.880
not spend where we don't need to
spend. And uh, one of the

544
00:35:15.880 --> 00:35:20.559
big, one big expense on low
budget films is the location, particularly if

545
00:35:20.559 --> 00:35:22.599
you're in LA. You know,
when you get out of LA, you

546
00:35:22.639 --> 00:35:24.039
can pretty much get a lot,
a lot more for free. I mean,

547
00:35:24.039 --> 00:35:30.360
people are so much more. So
there's just they're happy to work on

548
00:35:30.440 --> 00:35:35.079
a movie because it's exciting and you
know, you're not taking advantage or anything

549
00:35:35.119 --> 00:35:37.840
like that. You know, these
people are are are I believe I shot

550
00:35:37.880 --> 00:35:40.159
in like Fresno, and it was
like you couldn't you couldn't tell these people.

551
00:35:40.239 --> 00:35:43.920
You had to push people away like, hey, no, I think

552
00:35:43.920 --> 00:35:45.519
we got more than we need,
you know, thank you. They were

553
00:35:45.559 --> 00:35:49.760
just coming I mean they were coming
out in the in the hundreds to be

554
00:35:49.880 --> 00:35:53.519
extras and and and it was it
was actually overwhelming, I think a lot

555
00:35:53.559 --> 00:35:57.880
of times. And but in La
a whole different story. I mean you're

556
00:35:57.920 --> 00:36:00.079
like, you know, you're shooting
at a location people or people are being

557
00:36:00.119 --> 00:36:04.199
dicks. You know, people are
you know, turning their lawnmowers on.

558
00:36:04.360 --> 00:36:06.599
So you'll go over and tell them, you know, to turn it off,

559
00:36:06.639 --> 00:36:08.719
and then they'll they then then they'll
they'll try to extort money out of

560
00:36:08.719 --> 00:36:10.320
you to do it, you know, like, oh, I'm not going

561
00:36:10.360 --> 00:36:13.639
to turn it off unless you pay
me. And I was like, oh,

562
00:36:13.840 --> 00:36:16.840
okay, I've had people shoot beaty
guns at me before. We were

563
00:36:16.880 --> 00:36:23.199
at we were at a location and
the ad went over and asked politely if

564
00:36:23.239 --> 00:36:25.280
we were shooting a scene in an
alley and we didn't have a you know,

565
00:36:25.280 --> 00:36:29.280
we didn't have a permit to be
shooting there anyway. But the one

566
00:36:29.280 --> 00:36:31.000
of the ads asked them and they
would you guys, mind just just for

567
00:36:31.119 --> 00:36:32.760
just for like, you know,
five minutes, we just we need to

568
00:36:32.800 --> 00:36:36.800
grab this quick shot so on something. And they just like went totally like

569
00:36:37.000 --> 00:36:38.719
psycho and they're just like, you
know, fuck you, but we're not,

570
00:36:39.519 --> 00:36:42.679
fucking dude, bubble. And they
got on the roof and they started

571
00:36:42.679 --> 00:36:46.519
shooting beaty guns at the crew members. Nice you know, I mean tons

572
00:36:46.559 --> 00:36:50.119
of stuff like that, you know, and you know, extorting money out

573
00:36:50.159 --> 00:36:52.480
of out of us. I've had. I've had that happened before. I've

574
00:36:52.480 --> 00:36:55.000
had you know, fire departments showing
up and trying its threatening to shut us

575
00:36:55.039 --> 00:36:59.840
down unless we paid them immediately,
would pay. I'm like, I forget

576
00:37:00.199 --> 00:37:02.280
some kind of some kind of fee
to get the permit, but like right

577
00:37:02.320 --> 00:37:05.280
on the spot. So that's like, you know, that sort of thing,

578
00:37:05.360 --> 00:37:08.480
and you know, cops, neighbors
showing up telling us that their generator

579
00:37:08.639 --> 00:37:13.840
was causing health problems and stuff and
they wanted money, and it's just it's

580
00:37:13.960 --> 00:37:15.800
ridiculous. I guess it's what I'm
getting at. But so anyway, I

581
00:37:15.800 --> 00:37:19.559
guess what I'm going with that is
that if you're shooting in LA it's probably

582
00:37:19.599 --> 00:37:22.880
a little harder to get certain locations
like that for free. And uh,

583
00:37:22.960 --> 00:37:27.960
but when you're since most people are
probably listening to your podcasts are outside of

584
00:37:28.079 --> 00:37:30.960
LA, I think you really need
to utilize what you have. I mean,

585
00:37:31.119 --> 00:37:36.000
you know, the movie making world
isn't isn't just in Los Angeles,

586
00:37:36.280 --> 00:37:40.679
you know, So if you're living
in Kansas or Ohio or wherever it is,

587
00:37:40.719 --> 00:37:45.000
I mean, there's there's a lot
of great locations with with with amazing

588
00:37:45.039 --> 00:37:50.639
production value that you can get.
So you just just just utilize all that

589
00:37:50.679 --> 00:37:54.320
stuff, and I think you'll save
big in your in your budget. I

590
00:37:54.400 --> 00:38:01.039
think that's one of the biggest money
savers on a low film is the availability

591
00:38:01.119 --> 00:38:06.280
of stuff you already have. Now
on the other side of that, what

592
00:38:06.360 --> 00:38:09.840
are the things that you absolutely can't
be cheap about? Oh well that that

593
00:38:09.840 --> 00:38:14.639
that goes without saying. There's one
thing you don't want to be cheap about

594
00:38:15.119 --> 00:38:20.920
is the quality of your film.
And what and first and foremost the actors.

595
00:38:20.960 --> 00:38:23.440
Don't be cheap with your actors.
Pay for good actors and you will

596
00:38:23.480 --> 00:38:28.559
you will, you will not be
sorry. Pay for good good a good

597
00:38:28.599 --> 00:38:30.760
camera. I mean, look,
you know, let me look within reason.

598
00:38:30.800 --> 00:38:32.320
I mean, not everybody can shoot
on the AX. Not everybody can

599
00:38:32.360 --> 00:38:35.960
shoot on the Red Weapon, you
know, but if you have I mean,

600
00:38:36.000 --> 00:38:39.800
but now, I mean, look, I mean the film that's Sean

601
00:38:39.840 --> 00:38:45.519
Baker they shot. He shot on
an iPhone five s with an anamorphic attachment,

602
00:38:45.599 --> 00:38:49.280
you know, it using a nine
dollars APP or eight dollar app you

603
00:38:49.320 --> 00:38:51.760
know, and that got a theatrical
release, you know what I mean.

604
00:38:51.800 --> 00:38:54.599
I mean, there are other ways
to do things, but you know,

605
00:38:54.639 --> 00:38:59.480
and then you have the black Magic
pocket cinema camera, a thousand dollar camera,

606
00:38:59.559 --> 00:39:02.639
you know, you have you know, the Alexa has a mini now

607
00:39:02.800 --> 00:39:06.400
you know, the Alex of Mini
just came out. I was looking at

608
00:39:06.400 --> 00:39:10.320
that this year and then at the
NAB Show, and there are other other

609
00:39:10.599 --> 00:39:14.719
options. But don't be cheap with
your camera, you know, don't don't

610
00:39:15.800 --> 00:39:19.039
don't be cheap with your camera.
Don't be cheap with your key crew members.

611
00:39:19.440 --> 00:39:22.719
And you know what I mean by
as your DP credibly important for obviously

612
00:39:22.719 --> 00:39:25.000
if you'll look at your movie,
don't be cheap with lenses, don't don't

613
00:39:25.000 --> 00:39:28.360
be cheap with the camera. Don't
be cheap with lenses, don't be cheaper

614
00:39:28.320 --> 00:39:30.880
with the DP, don't be cheap
with production design. And put the money

615
00:39:31.039 --> 00:39:34.280
on the screen. You know,
at all times, I think if you

616
00:39:34.360 --> 00:39:37.039
just go into it and say,
look, if I'm where I'm spending money

617
00:39:37.039 --> 00:39:40.039
in this budget, I need to
make sure that this money is going up

618
00:39:40.039 --> 00:39:45.519
on the screen. So you know, if I'm spending money for silly stuff,

619
00:39:45.519 --> 00:39:49.280
you know, see if you can
cut that stuff back, We'll be

620
00:39:49.360 --> 00:39:55.360
right back after a word from our
sponsor, and now back to the show,

621
00:39:58.199 --> 00:40:01.760
and redistribute that money into something that
the audience is actually going to see

622
00:40:01.800 --> 00:40:05.000
on the screen. And that can
be anything that I just listen, I

623
00:40:05.039 --> 00:40:07.599
just mentioned, you know, and
more, you know, right, so

624
00:40:08.119 --> 00:40:12.480
yeah, I mean, don't you
know, don't don't be cheap on that

625
00:40:12.480 --> 00:40:15.719
stuff. Yeah, it will show. It definitely will show. And post

626
00:40:15.800 --> 00:40:17.920
too. Don't be oh my god, don't don't be cheap on your post.

627
00:40:19.079 --> 00:40:21.280
And don't say I'm going to fix
it in post either, because as

628
00:40:21.280 --> 00:40:24.000
an owner of a post company for
ten years, it's it's kind of cost

629
00:40:24.039 --> 00:40:27.280
you. I have love a lot
more money to fix it in posts than

630
00:40:27.320 --> 00:40:30.159
it would have been to get it
right the first time. And and a

631
00:40:30.159 --> 00:40:32.800
lot of that has to do with
sound. Usually, so is probably the

632
00:40:32.840 --> 00:40:37.159
biggest problems that I have coming into
my post company. People have just hired

633
00:40:37.159 --> 00:40:40.199
the worst sound people known to man, and it's just like a disaster,

634
00:40:42.920 --> 00:40:49.440
you know, the usually so yeah, so don't don't be cheap, right,

635
00:40:50.559 --> 00:40:52.360
Well, that that's one of the
big things that I think a lot

636
00:40:52.400 --> 00:40:55.320
of people don't understand. And I
always try to like kit that over the

637
00:40:55.360 --> 00:40:59.039
head, you know, as much
as possible. In terms of sound.

638
00:40:59.039 --> 00:41:00.119
People will be like, oh,
yeah, We've got you know, this

639
00:41:00.239 --> 00:41:04.800
amazing four K camera and whatever,
and it's like it's like, yeah,

640
00:41:04.800 --> 00:41:07.519
that doesn't really matter at all,
you know, if you don't have good

641
00:41:07.559 --> 00:41:08.960
sound, if you don't have a
good DP work in the camera, if

642
00:41:08.960 --> 00:41:13.159
you don't have all the things you
know what I mean. So I always

643
00:41:13.199 --> 00:41:15.480
try to make sure that people understand, you know, and I've heard from

644
00:41:15.559 --> 00:41:21.360
some people that like the sound guy
and the the catering guy or sometimes the

645
00:41:21.400 --> 00:41:24.239
most important guy on the set,
you know, Yeah, don't don't cheat.

646
00:41:24.280 --> 00:41:27.119
No, I mean, don't be
cheap with your food too. I

647
00:41:27.119 --> 00:41:29.440
mean, you really don't. I
mean, you really got to get you

648
00:41:29.480 --> 00:41:31.599
know, these people are coming there
and working hard, and you got gotta

649
00:41:31.639 --> 00:41:35.280
take care of your As a producer
myself, you gotta take care of your

650
00:41:35.280 --> 00:41:38.400
people. Definitely takes you, not
the whole like okay, hamburgers for everybody,

651
00:41:38.400 --> 00:41:42.679
and there's coke and the thing that
that's not that's not a proper diet

652
00:41:42.719 --> 00:41:44.960
for you know, most people,
you know what I mean. You have

653
00:41:45.039 --> 00:41:49.039
to, uh, you know,
spend the money into feeding eating people and

654
00:41:49.360 --> 00:41:53.239
giving people options and to what to
eat on set. You know, don't

655
00:41:53.280 --> 00:41:57.360
don't take everybody out to McDonald's.
That's that's that's not catering, you know

656
00:41:57.400 --> 00:42:01.440
what I mean. That's that's that's
actually punishment. Punishment, you know.

657
00:42:02.199 --> 00:42:07.960
But but I was gonna say something
else there. You're you're tracking on something

658
00:42:07.000 --> 00:42:09.239
there, and I headed in my
head, but then I went off on

659
00:42:09.519 --> 00:42:16.760
some stupid McDonald's rents when you were
talking about well sound sound, sound,

660
00:42:16.840 --> 00:42:20.239
cater but the DP too. I
mean, look, I mean, here's

661
00:42:20.239 --> 00:42:22.760
the Here's one of the biggest things
I see I see happening to a lot

662
00:42:22.760 --> 00:42:30.719
of times is that these cameras have
become so amazing and so cheap that oftentimes

663
00:42:30.719 --> 00:42:35.159
filmmakers will just say, man,
you know what do I need a DP

664
00:42:35.280 --> 00:42:37.840
for? I just shooting myself,
you know, just just point and shoot.

665
00:42:37.880 --> 00:42:38.920
You know, we'll just use the
zoom lens. We'll point and shoot

666
00:42:38.960 --> 00:42:42.519
and it looks good to me.
I turned the camera and the you know,

667
00:42:42.559 --> 00:42:45.079
the cameras can can shoot and and
with a candle on in the room

668
00:42:45.119 --> 00:42:50.199
and it actually still looks pretty decent. But that's not you know, that's

669
00:42:50.239 --> 00:42:54.159
not again, it's not the that's
not cinematography. That's not you know,

670
00:42:54.760 --> 00:42:59.079
real filmmaking. You really want to
get you know, get somebody in there

671
00:42:59.079 --> 00:43:01.760
that's dedicated to that department, right, you know, and and not the

672
00:43:01.760 --> 00:43:05.920
direct because I vped and directly before
and so it's all god, it's it's

673
00:43:05.960 --> 00:43:08.480
crazy. But if you but you
know, you really want to hire a

674
00:43:08.559 --> 00:43:12.559
DP that comes in and can really
give you the look that you want and

675
00:43:12.760 --> 00:43:16.199
makes the right lens choices and and
uh and and give you something because it

676
00:43:16.440 --> 00:43:20.440
will absolutely show in your movie when
you're done. You can tell. You'll

677
00:43:20.440 --> 00:43:22.639
look at a movie and be like, yeah, movie's not bad, but

678
00:43:22.719 --> 00:43:23.840
you know, god, they must
have shot at all of the zoom lens

679
00:43:23.920 --> 00:43:27.119
or they just shot it with some
cheap lens, or you know that they

680
00:43:27.199 --> 00:43:30.320
just kept moving around and then you
see another film that could be then you'll

681
00:43:30.239 --> 00:43:32.320
shot on the same camera, but
you're like, oh my god, this

682
00:43:32.639 --> 00:43:36.440
looks fantastic. What did they do? Oh my god? They were using

683
00:43:36.480 --> 00:43:39.000
like they were They had this amazing
set of prime lenses that they were using

684
00:43:39.039 --> 00:43:43.280
and a really good DP that actually
knows how to light. You know.

685
00:43:43.280 --> 00:43:45.920
It's one of the things I learned
from Mac Alberg. Mac was a guy

686
00:43:46.000 --> 00:43:51.679
that Mac just so those of you
don't know, Mac Alberg was a He

687
00:43:51.800 --> 00:43:53.559
was a DP that I worked with
on two films, and he shot re

688
00:43:53.639 --> 00:44:00.440
Animator and House and Beverly Hills Cop
three and all these big Hollywood movies,

689
00:44:00.480 --> 00:44:05.679
big big horror movies. He's also
worked with Stewart cording a lot. And

690
00:44:05.719 --> 00:44:07.360
anyway, Mac and I were were
good friends, and he shot two two

691
00:44:07.360 --> 00:44:10.960
movies, but I remember for me
and then he shot two movies, and

692
00:44:12.000 --> 00:44:15.800
we used to talk all the time
about cinematography and he goes all the way,

693
00:44:15.800 --> 00:44:17.920
but he was a really older guy. He goes all the way back

694
00:44:17.960 --> 00:44:22.840
to Ingmar Bergman. He shot he
shot one of the I think one shot

695
00:44:22.880 --> 00:44:27.519
in the seventh seal in Bergman's movie, and he was so proud about that,

696
00:44:27.559 --> 00:44:31.920
and of course that's like movie to
even being involved in that. H

697
00:44:32.239 --> 00:44:36.039
Anyway, one of the things he
would always I learned from him was he

698
00:44:36.960 --> 00:44:43.280
always would like he won his first
film on digital I think was with me

699
00:44:43.360 --> 00:44:45.239
and I made me mistake of but
I think it was with me. And

700
00:44:46.280 --> 00:44:51.639
he would like the digital like it
was film, and it would look and

701
00:44:51.639 --> 00:44:53.239
it would look so good and he
you know, and it wasn't one of

702
00:44:53.239 --> 00:44:55.360
those things where he just would flip
on the camera and be like, well,

703
00:44:55.440 --> 00:44:59.400
we're singing an image, so yeah, that's great, that'll work.

704
00:45:00.440 --> 00:45:02.360
It was really cool to watch him, watch him work and how he just

705
00:45:02.480 --> 00:45:07.159
hes still lit the digital like it
was film and gave it the right exposure

706
00:45:07.320 --> 00:45:09.559
and everything and it's just the stuff
really looked fantastic. But I mean,

707
00:45:09.639 --> 00:45:14.000
you know, to get a guy
like that special. But now, I

708
00:45:14.000 --> 00:45:15.840
mean, you know, you just
got to really make sure that you you

709
00:45:15.920 --> 00:45:21.199
get somebody on board who's gonna he's
gonna do a really good cinematography job for

710
00:45:21.239 --> 00:45:23.719
you, because I'm telling you,
man, it shows so much you know

711
00:45:23.719 --> 00:45:27.960
when when you when you don't have
that, you know, right, and

712
00:45:28.559 --> 00:45:31.079
so yeah, spend the money on
that. Now, who are the key

713
00:45:31.119 --> 00:45:35.599
when you start working you know,
we're still a little bit in pre production.

714
00:45:36.480 --> 00:45:39.880
Who are the people that you really
are kind of like your you know,

715
00:45:39.960 --> 00:45:45.239
who do you go to for like
putting together the budget and who are

716
00:45:45.400 --> 00:45:49.360
your key kind of players and who
do you need even you know talking about

717
00:45:50.079 --> 00:45:52.119
you know, lower budget features,
But who would be the people that you

718
00:45:52.239 --> 00:45:55.760
needed to kind of like to make
up your team aside from the DP,

719
00:45:57.360 --> 00:46:01.199
like people like the assistant director production
manager you know who? Sure anyway,

720
00:46:01.360 --> 00:46:05.360
yeah, sure, sure, No, I got you and I totally got

721
00:46:05.360 --> 00:46:07.519
you, Okay. Well, one
of the and that's one of the things.

722
00:46:07.639 --> 00:46:09.679
This is another thing that you don't
want to be cheap on it and

723
00:46:09.800 --> 00:46:15.239
and it is the the the the
management of your crew or the management of

724
00:46:15.280 --> 00:46:17.360
you I'm sorry, the management of
your film, you know, upper upper

725
00:46:17.400 --> 00:46:21.079
management of your film. You you
do not want to take on all the

726
00:46:21.119 --> 00:46:24.960
responsibilities yourself. Believe me, don't
do that, you know, delegate,

727
00:46:25.000 --> 00:46:30.719
delegate as much as you possibly can
afford, particularly when it comes to having

728
00:46:30.960 --> 00:46:36.679
having an experienced line producer, particularly
when it comes to having an experience the

729
00:46:36.760 --> 00:46:40.519
UPM and the production manager, particularly
when it comes to, uh, you

730
00:46:40.559 --> 00:46:45.960
know, having I'd say those two, If you have those two, you're

731
00:46:46.039 --> 00:46:52.320
you're already uh, you're already doing
a pretty good at that point. But

732
00:46:52.400 --> 00:46:55.559
you know, just I think it's
very important for you to just to install

733
00:46:55.719 --> 00:47:00.239
an upper management team start. You
know, it's starting with your line producers.

734
00:47:00.239 --> 00:47:04.599
Your line producers is really going to
be your you're, you're, you're,

735
00:47:04.719 --> 00:47:08.960
you're your buddy. Can you can
you describe some people that don't completely

736
00:47:09.039 --> 00:47:14.320
understand what what exactly the line producer's
role is on the film? Sure,

737
00:47:14.480 --> 00:47:16.920
sure, Well a line producers just
one oh one, they're not sure Yeah,

738
00:47:16.960 --> 00:47:20.920
I mean they're they're not They're not
really in a creative role on the

739
00:47:20.960 --> 00:47:25.039
film. They're more in the in
the role of you know, a line

740
00:47:25.039 --> 00:47:30.119
producer is more like the guy who
the producer that really does all the work

741
00:47:30.360 --> 00:47:35.599
the great work Like he's the guy
who makes sure everybody's showing up. Make

742
00:47:35.639 --> 00:47:38.519
sure you know things are you know, people are getting hired, people,

743
00:47:38.519 --> 00:47:42.599
you know, the things are on, people are moving on schedule. Sometimes

744
00:47:42.599 --> 00:47:45.079
they deal with the they deal with
the studio. If there's a studio,

745
00:47:45.960 --> 00:47:54.400
they they they're really the the the
that like the central, uh producing element

746
00:47:54.440 --> 00:47:59.440
in the film. So what I'm
producing a film. I won't produce a

747
00:47:59.440 --> 00:48:01.960
film without breaking line producer, you
know, and producing. For me,

748
00:48:02.039 --> 00:48:05.440
it's more, it's more I'm more
of I want to be more of a

749
00:48:05.559 --> 00:48:07.679
I'm more of a creative producer.
So it's more like, you know,

750
00:48:07.760 --> 00:48:10.880
I can get I get the I
can get the I get the idea,

751
00:48:12.679 --> 00:48:16.400
the script. I work with the
writers' creatively developed the project. I usually

752
00:48:16.400 --> 00:48:20.559
get the money or the funding for
it. And then once that happens.

753
00:48:20.719 --> 00:48:22.960
First one of the first things I
do is bring on all one once we

754
00:48:22.960 --> 00:48:23.719
were ready to go into production,
and one of the first things I do

755
00:48:23.760 --> 00:48:27.599
will bring on a line producer,
and the line producer will take that,

756
00:48:27.840 --> 00:48:30.440
they'll budget it, they'll break down, they'll break down the script. Oftentimes

757
00:48:30.519 --> 00:48:37.880
they'll they'll they'll they'll handle they'll they'll
do a schedule oftentimes, although you're sometimes

758
00:48:37.880 --> 00:48:40.119
you're a D is more involved than
that later on, but often the line

759
00:48:40.159 --> 00:48:45.000
producer does the initial budget and initial
schedule. They'll deal with SAG, they'll

760
00:48:45.000 --> 00:48:50.440
deal with all those other elements.
So there, there, there. It's

761
00:48:50.440 --> 00:48:53.679
important to get an experienced line producer
on board because it'll it'll really help things,

762
00:48:54.159 --> 00:48:58.760
especially on low budget stuff. And
then you have you know, other

763
00:48:58.840 --> 00:49:01.519
upper management like you're a you know
who's and I mean, I've made plenty

764
00:49:01.519 --> 00:49:05.440
of movies without an AD because they'll
usually the lying producers like, oh,

765
00:49:05.559 --> 00:49:07.280
we can afford an a D,
so I'll be your A D. And

766
00:49:07.320 --> 00:49:12.280
I'm like, oh right. But
to have a dedicated a D is a

767
00:49:12.280 --> 00:49:15.760
real godsend because they really do you
know, they help, They help you

768
00:49:15.840 --> 00:49:19.280
run, They help you run the
set, and they let allow for you

769
00:49:19.360 --> 00:49:22.519
to concentrate on being a director and
just just directing and not having to worry

770
00:49:22.519 --> 00:49:25.159
about where are my freaking actors?
Why do I have to go find these

771
00:49:25.199 --> 00:49:28.119
guys? You know, that's the
job of your A D. And they

772
00:49:28.239 --> 00:49:30.719
do to help you stay on schedule
and tell people to be quiet when they

773
00:49:30.719 --> 00:49:34.880
need to be quiet, and and
that sort of thing. So you know,

774
00:49:35.679 --> 00:49:42.039
those those those upper upper management team
is super important to install and quality

775
00:49:42.039 --> 00:49:44.400
and get qualified people if you if
you can afford it, if the budget

776
00:49:44.400 --> 00:49:47.719
allows people who have experience in that
level of movie making, it's always a

777
00:49:47.760 --> 00:49:51.440
good thing too because they get low
budget. If they get low budget,

778
00:49:51.440 --> 00:49:53.360
they understand like, hey, we
you know, we can't be spending you

779
00:49:53.360 --> 00:49:57.440
know, uh, two hundred dollars
on a refrigerator. I mean I did

780
00:49:57.480 --> 00:50:01.519
a friend of mine. We'll be
right back after a word from our sponsor,

781
00:50:06.159 --> 00:50:09.679
and now back to the show.
A well known director friend of mine

782
00:50:09.719 --> 00:50:15.760
gave me a budget one time,
and he's like, he's like, you

783
00:50:15.760 --> 00:50:19.320
know, you just made this movie
for thirty five thousand dollars, and like,

784
00:50:19.400 --> 00:50:21.400
you know, this movie though I'm
doing, it's like, it's not

785
00:50:21.480 --> 00:50:22.719
that much more complicated than one they
did that. They just gave me a

786
00:50:22.719 --> 00:50:25.440
three hundred and fifty thousand dollars budget, and he's like, can you you

787
00:50:25.480 --> 00:50:28.400
think you could look at this for
me and see if you could, you

788
00:50:28.400 --> 00:50:30.800
know, shave off one hundred grand
or something like that. So I did

789
00:50:30.800 --> 00:50:32.559
it for me, and I looked
at it and I was like, I

790
00:50:32.639 --> 00:50:37.039
was my eyes were bleeding I couldn't
believe the stuff that they were paying for

791
00:50:37.079 --> 00:50:38.159
in there, and I just went
through it with think. I'm like no,

792
00:50:38.320 --> 00:50:40.840
no, no no. He was
just looking at me like h and

793
00:50:42.039 --> 00:50:43.639
I was like no, no,
no no. I was like, dude,

794
00:50:43.639 --> 00:50:47.280
you have somebody actually budgeted for you
to have a two to go out

795
00:50:47.320 --> 00:50:52.719
and buy a two hundred dollars refrigerator
for your production office. I'm like,

796
00:50:52.039 --> 00:50:55.480
what is that? What movies have
you been this guy been working on?

797
00:50:55.880 --> 00:51:00.360
This is a low budget moving on
two hundred dollars for refrigerators. I mean

798
00:51:00.440 --> 00:51:05.119
just things like that. It was
it was absolutely ridiculous. So I shaved

799
00:51:05.119 --> 00:51:07.159
off like one hundred and fifty grand
for him. He was really happy.

800
00:51:07.840 --> 00:51:09.880
But yeah, I mean things like
that, you just it's like, oh

801
00:51:10.079 --> 00:51:15.000
jeez. So so yeah, so
I hope I answered your question there.

802
00:51:15.039 --> 00:51:20.400
But yeah, So when you're when
you start directing the how how important is

803
00:51:20.400 --> 00:51:22.920
it that you can just like kind
of be do you have kind of that

804
00:51:22.000 --> 00:51:25.679
laser focus on Okay, we have
to get this scene. Then we're moving

805
00:51:25.719 --> 00:51:30.199
to that scene, and you know, are you just like visualizing where the

806
00:51:30.239 --> 00:51:32.840
camera's going to go or you have
you worked it out most of it before

807
00:51:32.880 --> 00:51:36.800
you get on the set or do
you kind of do it while you're there.

808
00:51:37.400 --> 00:51:43.000
Well, I think on this on
when you on the I've done it

809
00:51:43.039 --> 00:51:49.280
both ways. But honestly, on
the films that I've done, they've they've

810
00:51:49.320 --> 00:51:52.519
been done in such a hurry that
you know, I mean, I got,

811
00:51:52.519 --> 00:51:54.639
you know, look really really well. I shot in six days,

812
00:51:54.840 --> 00:51:59.440
okay, I mean, and you
know we were doing seven seventeen fifteen pages

813
00:51:59.480 --> 00:52:02.559
a day in Atlanta Vista Hospital,
East LA, running around this freaking giant

814
00:52:02.559 --> 00:52:07.480
hospital, the whole thing. But
at sixteen a sixth day movie. And

815
00:52:07.960 --> 00:52:12.519
you know, I think when you're
doing something that quickly, a lot of

816
00:52:12.519 --> 00:52:15.599
people, a lot of people,
and they should they like, people should

817
00:52:15.599 --> 00:52:16.599
be prepared. They want to come
in prepare like, hey, you know,

818
00:52:16.639 --> 00:52:20.519
I know every single shot that I'm
doing, I'm gonna come in.

819
00:52:20.960 --> 00:52:23.360
Everybody's gonna be like, Wow,
you're the most amazing prepared director I've ever

820
00:52:23.360 --> 00:52:25.519
met. Blah blah blah. And
then they get there and they're like,

821
00:52:25.920 --> 00:52:29.480
and your life page comes up to
you and say, oh yeah, the

822
00:52:30.320 --> 00:52:32.400
location or says we can't shoot on
that floor today, there's another crew coming

823
00:52:32.440 --> 00:52:35.599
in and the deal we may but
blah blah blah. So you can't shoot

824
00:52:35.599 --> 00:52:38.280
there, and you have to shoot
on another floor. And then and then

825
00:52:38.320 --> 00:52:42.760
immediately your your shot list is gone. It's it's you just gotta crumbled up

826
00:52:42.760 --> 00:52:44.760
the third way. You're like,
well, it ain't gonna work here,

827
00:52:44.800 --> 00:52:47.519
so now we gotta we gotta shoot
on a completely different floor, completely different

828
00:52:47.559 --> 00:52:50.719
look, and we have to roll
with the punch. So now all that

829
00:52:50.760 --> 00:52:53.519
prep you did doesn't matter. So
I mean, like really Evil, like

830
00:52:53.559 --> 00:52:57.760
I you know, I mean obviously
a lot of the films, but particularly

831
00:52:57.760 --> 00:53:00.440
really Evil. I remember because I
just was like just show up and I'm

832
00:53:00.440 --> 00:53:00.960
like, okay, you know,
what are we doing. It's like,

833
00:53:01.039 --> 00:53:04.760
okay, here's the saw. And
I would I literally would look at the

834
00:53:04.800 --> 00:53:06.760
schedule and just say, okay,
we're shooting that. We're shooting, were

835
00:53:06.760 --> 00:53:08.199
shooting that. Okay great, And
then I would go I go in there,

836
00:53:08.199 --> 00:53:12.840
I grab the actors, I'd read
over the scene, and I would

837
00:53:12.880 --> 00:53:15.079
just start cutting the scene together in
my head like okay, you know,

838
00:53:15.079 --> 00:53:19.639
but I mean I have the experience
from as an editor, so go in

839
00:53:19.760 --> 00:53:21.239
and I already know what it's going
to look like. So I'm like,

840
00:53:21.280 --> 00:53:22.760
okay, well you come around the
corner and the camera's here, the shoot

841
00:53:22.800 --> 00:53:25.440
it this way and then boom,
we're done. So for me, it's

842
00:53:25.559 --> 00:53:29.599
very fast and to the point,
and we don't waste footage. We don't.

843
00:53:29.760 --> 00:53:32.320
I don't overcover, I don't shoot
too many takes. I know when

844
00:53:32.360 --> 00:53:36.000
I got something when I don't got
somebody. But that comes from a lot

845
00:53:36.039 --> 00:53:40.159
of experience with editing, so you
know, I mean, I maybe I

846
00:53:40.159 --> 00:53:43.079
can do that kind of stuff.
I'm sure other people can do that kind

847
00:53:43.079 --> 00:53:46.000
of stuff. But if you're maybe
if it's your first project, it's always

848
00:53:46.000 --> 00:53:49.119
a good idea to be prepared,
you know. I mean, because even

849
00:53:49.159 --> 00:53:52.760
if you do the prep work and
you come in with a plan, most

850
00:53:52.760 --> 00:53:54.679
of the time you can execute it. But not all the time. You

851
00:53:55.159 --> 00:53:58.679
can. A lot of times you
can't shoot that direction, or the sun's

852
00:53:58.719 --> 00:54:00.880
in the wrong, you can't shoot
that direction how you plan it, you

853
00:54:00.880 --> 00:54:04.039
know, so you have to shoot
the other way. Well that kind of

854
00:54:04.119 --> 00:54:07.159
changes your your blocking plan or your
your shot plan, you know, and

855
00:54:07.199 --> 00:54:09.320
you just have to be able to
roll with it, you know. And

856
00:54:10.519 --> 00:54:13.880
if you can do that, then
I think, you know, you're you're

857
00:54:13.920 --> 00:54:16.599
on your way to uh You're directing
and directing a lot, you know,

858
00:54:16.679 --> 00:54:21.920
because it certainly doesn't always turn out
the way you had it on paper,

859
00:54:22.599 --> 00:54:25.880
right, So, so what is
the key? Talking specifically now since this

860
00:54:25.960 --> 00:54:30.559
is going to be for our October
scare Athon, I don't know what it's

861
00:54:30.559 --> 00:54:36.599
going to be called, you scare
Athon, but what what is the key

862
00:54:36.760 --> 00:54:38.639
to? You know, horror is
very different than every other genre, you

863
00:54:38.639 --> 00:54:44.559
know, because you have to really
affect the audience, like you have to

864
00:54:44.599 --> 00:54:47.800
scare the pants off of them,
you know, and if you're a successful

865
00:54:47.840 --> 00:54:51.800
horror movie, you have you know, maybe not jump scares, but you

866
00:54:51.800 --> 00:54:53.280
have to scare people. What what
do you think are kind of the key

867
00:54:53.400 --> 00:54:59.800
ingredients for creating a successful horror film
and making people feel like they got what

868
00:55:00.000 --> 00:55:01.320
they wanted to out of it,
you know, scaring them or whatever.

869
00:55:02.159 --> 00:55:06.280
Well, yeah, yeah, they're
a great No, great question. I

870
00:55:06.320 --> 00:55:13.079
think that I think it comes down
to having, you know, having one,

871
00:55:13.159 --> 00:55:15.440
having characters that you really care about, that that are are compelling,

872
00:55:15.920 --> 00:55:20.320
you know, the people that you
you want to watch, people that you're

873
00:55:20.360 --> 00:55:24.639
gonna you're gonna actually give a shit
if they're coming up against a monster or

874
00:55:24.679 --> 00:55:29.639
a threat of some kind, you
know, you you So, so that

875
00:55:30.119 --> 00:55:34.960
definitely number one is your story and
your characters. But as far as like,

876
00:55:35.039 --> 00:55:37.199
you know, the monsters and what
things like that, I mean,

877
00:55:38.599 --> 00:55:40.719
yeah, I mean, I mean, I mean, look, I mean

878
00:55:42.000 --> 00:55:47.039
monsters like like not monsters, but
somebody like like a leather face or or

879
00:55:46.920 --> 00:55:51.599
or a Jason and Freddie. I
mean, those guys have been around for

880
00:55:51.639 --> 00:55:55.320
a long time for a reason.
You know, they were compelling monster,

881
00:55:55.559 --> 00:56:01.360
compelling horror movie bill. I mean
that that's why they've lasted this long.

882
00:56:02.039 --> 00:56:08.280
And I think if you can come
up with a monster or a disease or

883
00:56:08.280 --> 00:56:12.760
whatever it may be, you know
that that that is compelling enough to to

884
00:56:12.760 --> 00:56:16.039
to to do a lot of sequels
hopefully, uh that they should go with

885
00:56:16.159 --> 00:56:21.920
it, you know, but you
know, you know, you really,

886
00:56:22.079 --> 00:56:23.159
I know it's hard now though too. It is hard, you know,

887
00:56:23.199 --> 00:56:28.480
because there's you know, things how
everything seems like everything's been done. But

888
00:56:29.079 --> 00:56:30.760
that doesn't that doesn't mean that doesn't
mean that you know, you can't do

889
00:56:30.800 --> 00:56:34.719
another It certainly doesn't mean you can't
go out and make your own slasher just

890
00:56:34.719 --> 00:56:37.800
because there's been a billion slashers made. You just need to go out and

891
00:56:37.840 --> 00:56:43.360
make a slasher that is your own
point of view and is that your own

892
00:56:43.400 --> 00:56:47.800
interpretation of what you think a slasher
movie should be like, and hopefully that

893
00:56:47.840 --> 00:56:55.360
translates into your vision and to your
your aesthetic and your brand and your your

894
00:56:55.519 --> 00:56:59.880
unique style of movie making. So
I think if you look at it from

895
00:57:00.159 --> 00:57:01.599
point of view, you can't really
you know, you can, you can.

896
00:57:01.639 --> 00:57:04.599
You might be able to get inspired
and say, hey, you know,

897
00:57:04.719 --> 00:57:07.559
well, you know I always wanted
to make a slasher on a submarine

898
00:57:07.599 --> 00:57:09.119
or I own just like a slasher
in a treehouse or whatever the hell it

899
00:57:09.159 --> 00:57:13.079
may be, you know, And
and I have a unique way that I

900
00:57:13.119 --> 00:57:16.360
think it's going to work for doing
it, and and that's what you should

901
00:57:16.400 --> 00:57:19.880
do, you know. And uh
so there really, I mean, there

902
00:57:19.880 --> 00:57:22.079
really isn't. I mean, you
can you can study. You can study

903
00:57:22.079 --> 00:57:24.119
horror movies all you want, and
you should. You absolutely should, particularly

904
00:57:24.159 --> 00:57:29.599
in the classics particularly there's a lot, so many great movies that have been

905
00:57:29.639 --> 00:57:32.280
made in the eighties and the eighties
and the seventies certainly certainly today too,

906
00:57:32.320 --> 00:57:37.119
but I think more so in the
in the in the earlier years. You

907
00:57:37.119 --> 00:57:42.039
know. But do you have any
specific films that like stick out that kind

908
00:57:42.039 --> 00:57:44.360
of really affected you? Oh yeah, I mean, look, when I

909
00:57:44.440 --> 00:57:46.719
when I made Stuart Gordon was a
big influence for me because he was my

910
00:57:46.960 --> 00:57:52.719
kind of my directing mentor. Really
we made a movie together many years ago

911
00:57:52.320 --> 00:57:57.679
and uh thirty five thousand dollars movie
called Deathbed Stuart Gordon Presents the Death Bet.

912
00:57:57.880 --> 00:58:00.440
We were going to do a whole
series of these things Stuart Cordon presents

913
00:58:00.519 --> 00:58:04.559
this and that and then the whole
deal. But the first one we made

914
00:58:04.639 --> 00:58:07.079
together, and he was the executive
producer and his name was above the title

915
00:58:07.079 --> 00:58:12.400
and the whole deal. And I
just watched a bunch of the outtakes from

916
00:58:12.440 --> 00:58:16.079
that because it's on YouTube, behind
the scenes footage of you guys shooting that.

917
00:58:16.639 --> 00:58:19.559
That's really kind of cool. Yeah, that was a fun one.

918
00:58:19.599 --> 00:58:21.920
It was. It was. It
was fun. But I mean I learned

919
00:58:21.920 --> 00:58:23.039
so much on that film. I
mean it was it was so low.

920
00:58:23.079 --> 00:58:27.360
I mean we again, it was
we shot it for twenty five grand and

921
00:58:27.400 --> 00:58:30.559
it was posted for ten and we
shot it. This is pre twenty four

922
00:58:30.599 --> 00:58:32.599
piece, so like this is before
like the cameras were like they are now.

923
00:58:32.800 --> 00:58:36.440
This is this is when we would
shoot on digital video. We shoot

924
00:58:36.480 --> 00:58:40.119
on DV cam and we would film
look it through after effects plug in or

925
00:58:40.360 --> 00:58:44.440
or the company in Burbank called film
Look. They would actually take take it

926
00:58:44.480 --> 00:58:46.599
and remove the telesmi and try to
make it look more like it was shot

927
00:58:46.599 --> 00:58:49.719
on film. And that's why we
were doing a lot of stuff in the

928
00:58:49.840 --> 00:58:52.880
in the early two thousand before the
twenty four pe cameras came out. So

929
00:58:52.920 --> 00:58:58.800
anyway, we made this film and
and I remember before we made the film,

930
00:58:58.840 --> 00:59:01.559
Stewart I went up Stewart went over
to Stewart's house with mac Alberg r

931
00:59:01.599 --> 00:59:06.559
DP and and we we He's like, hey, let's watch some let's watch

932
00:59:06.639 --> 00:59:10.159
some horror movies to him, and
so we watched one of my favorite,

933
00:59:10.400 --> 00:59:15.760
uh classic horror films, which is
called The Innocence, and uh, that's

934
00:59:15.800 --> 00:59:17.719
a really great one for you to
watch. And then we and I kept

935
00:59:17.760 --> 00:59:21.519
seeing that what is what is that? Who's when that? That is?

936
00:59:22.599 --> 00:59:25.760
What's the lady's name? That is? Uh, it's a black and white

937
00:59:25.760 --> 00:59:30.119
film, it's it's god, my
brain my brain just completely went brain dab

938
00:59:30.440 --> 00:59:34.000
dab. I think it's dead bro
Oh yeah yeah, because she was the

939
00:59:34.000 --> 00:59:37.920
one who was in Poultergeist, right, oh yeah yeah, but just okay,

940
00:59:37.960 --> 00:59:39.440
I remember, yeah, that was
really good. It's amazing. It's

941
00:59:39.440 --> 00:59:44.000
a fantastic you know, it's like
a ghost movie. Yeah, that that

942
00:59:44.119 --> 00:59:45.760
was amazing. I remember I saw
that last year. Yeah. It's a

943
00:59:45.800 --> 00:59:49.639
classic. Man, just just I
mean that's that. You can't go with

944
00:59:49.719 --> 00:59:52.599
innocence. Yeah, okay. And
the other film that that I think is

945
00:59:52.679 --> 00:59:55.679
very well certainly was very powerful and
very that pretty much Stewart Gordon says it

946
00:59:55.840 --> 01:00:02.920
was his horror film school is Rosemary's
Baby. We'll be right back after a

947
01:00:02.960 --> 01:00:12.920
word from our sponsor, and now
back to the show and Rosemary's Baby.

948
01:00:12.960 --> 01:00:15.000
The original Rosemary's Baby. I don't
know if they made a TV series or

949
01:00:15.039 --> 01:00:17.719
something. Who knows, but you
ever try to pretend there's not another one.

950
01:00:19.559 --> 01:00:25.000
Lass Rosemary's Baby was absolutely I know
for Stuart certainly was was his film

951
01:00:25.039 --> 01:00:30.199
school or and I watched it with
me when we watched it together, and

952
01:00:30.199 --> 01:00:31.760
he was pointing out things and I
was like that, you know, I

953
01:00:31.800 --> 01:00:34.960
never really thought about it like that. Yeah, I see what you're saying.

954
01:00:35.920 --> 01:00:39.119
And so we watched it together and
really took it apart and it was

955
01:00:39.199 --> 01:00:42.719
like, it was so cool because
you don't hear I have sitting with freaking

956
01:00:42.760 --> 01:00:45.960
you know, Stuart Gordon, you
know, breaking apart Rosemary's Baby, and

957
01:00:46.000 --> 01:00:51.320
it was like amazing. So I
think you know that Rosemary's Baby and The

958
01:00:51.400 --> 01:00:52.800
Innocence, I mean, there's there's
a lot of them, but I think

959
01:00:52.840 --> 01:01:00.519
those two in particular really certainly stood
out class because we were we were specifically

960
01:01:00.519 --> 01:01:05.800
looking at a sort of more round
that style of filmmaking, sort of like

961
01:01:05.840 --> 01:01:08.480
ghost stories, and well, I
think you can learn so much about directing

962
01:01:08.519 --> 01:01:13.800
and screenwriting from Rosemary's Baby just by
itself, you know, because you watch

963
01:01:13.880 --> 01:01:15.039
it, you can watch it five
or six times. In the second time,

964
01:01:15.199 --> 01:01:19.039
what you've seen the whole thing,
and you watch it again and you

965
01:01:19.079 --> 01:01:22.800
see what's kind of going on,
Like so much of that movie takes place

966
01:01:22.360 --> 01:01:24.920
away from the camera, you know
what I mean. So it's like you're

967
01:01:24.960 --> 01:01:30.840
you're learning all these things from uh, you know, the neighbors and everything

968
01:01:30.960 --> 01:01:32.920
and there you know, all these
things that are going on, and you're

969
01:01:34.000 --> 01:01:37.159
kind of seeing everything through the point
of view of a woman who you know,

970
01:01:37.239 --> 01:01:39.360
seems like she's kind of losing her
mind, but it's actually you know,

971
01:01:40.320 --> 01:01:44.119
it's actually something's actually happening to her. But it's just brilliant that and

972
01:01:44.159 --> 01:01:47.679
you know, I always like that
in Chinatown. You know, Planska's two

973
01:01:47.760 --> 01:01:52.039
movies back to back that were just
incredible. Those are like filmmaking schools on

974
01:01:52.039 --> 01:01:57.039
there. They're absolutely absolutely man Plansky. I mean, he's a he's a

975
01:01:57.440 --> 01:02:00.159
he's a master filmmaker. There's no, no, no question about that.

976
01:02:00.199 --> 01:02:01.760
I mean, looking the Shining too. The Shining is a great example.

977
01:02:01.760 --> 01:02:07.239
There's a really good book actually I've
been reading. It's called it's called The

978
01:02:07.320 --> 01:02:12.360
Shining Studies in the Horror Film by
Daniel Olson, edited by Daniel Olson,

979
01:02:12.639 --> 01:02:15.599
and it's just this big old freaking
book about the making of The Shining and

980
01:02:15.599 --> 01:02:19.239
it's just a really, really really
interesting if you're interested in that. So

981
01:02:19.239 --> 01:02:22.880
there's also one on The Exorcist too, Studies in the Horror Film Series that's

982
01:02:22.920 --> 01:02:25.119
really good. I mean, of
course, The Exorcist, there's no question

983
01:02:25.199 --> 01:02:28.760
that that's, you know, one
of probably one of the best poor films

984
01:02:28.760 --> 01:02:34.079
ever made. But I meant the
Shining and one of one film that I

985
01:02:34.159 --> 01:02:37.400
was actually I was just talking about
it last night was as a film called

986
01:02:37.400 --> 01:02:40.159
The Entity with Barbara Hershey is one
of the films that's scared to freaking shit

987
01:02:40.239 --> 01:02:45.400
out of me. It was really, really really scary. And The Changeling

988
01:02:45.519 --> 01:02:50.559
is an amazing not that Angelina Jolie
thing, the the the Changeling, the

989
01:02:50.559 --> 01:02:59.320
old the classic one with George uh, George Got, the guy who played

990
01:02:59.360 --> 01:03:05.760
Patton Forgot. I'd say Georgey Scott
anyway anyway, So yeah, but he's

991
01:03:05.800 --> 01:03:07.159
in this film called The Change,
Like, oh man, it's such a

992
01:03:07.199 --> 01:03:13.639
great such a great ghost story,
just classy and just offic just awesome film,

993
01:03:14.159 --> 01:03:15.679
really amazing film. But I mean, you know, I mean I

994
01:03:15.719 --> 01:03:17.480
could go on, we could go
on all day about that. That's a

995
01:03:17.480 --> 01:03:22.199
whole another podcast, I think.
But the this, but this, this

996
01:03:22.239 --> 01:03:27.400
is so important to to do,
is to really look at these films and

997
01:03:27.440 --> 01:03:30.840
really study these classics, and certainly
Hitchcock. If you Hitchcock is probably one

998
01:03:30.840 --> 01:03:35.320
of the best film schools that you
could ever have. Is to just watch

999
01:03:35.400 --> 01:03:38.440
Hitchcock and study Hitchcock. I mean, he's just it's just it goes without

1000
01:03:38.480 --> 01:03:45.440
goes without saying that. That's a
that's a good one too. So yeahright,

1001
01:03:45.559 --> 01:03:49.480
so love me. Let's let's move
slowly just so. I mean,

1002
01:03:49.519 --> 01:03:52.440
I know you don't have a whole
lot of time. Just whatever, I'm

1003
01:03:52.440 --> 01:03:54.719
here for you, So just love
me. Just keep Okay, well we'll

1004
01:03:54.719 --> 01:04:00.119
be here for another four hours.
I haven't another big deal just uh so

1005
01:04:00.320 --> 01:04:08.760
moving into well, let me ask
you something about just the actual creating of

1006
01:04:09.519 --> 01:04:14.480
creatures. Do you go to just
like a creature workshop? How is the

1007
01:04:14.679 --> 01:04:17.880
creatures designed? How does that whole
process work? And who owns at the

1008
01:04:17.960 --> 01:04:21.800
end of the day. Say,
for example, you create you know,

1009
01:04:21.800 --> 01:04:25.960
you've got a screenplay, You've right, you've got this character you have you

1010
01:04:26.000 --> 01:04:30.239
know, artists working on it or
whatever. Do you own that creature after

1011
01:04:30.280 --> 01:04:32.840
they create it? Does the company
that make it own those rights? You

1012
01:04:32.880 --> 01:04:35.679
know? How does that all work? Well, yeah, it's gonna be

1013
01:04:35.719 --> 01:04:40.960
whoever owns the whoever owns the the
film. I mean, because you're you're

1014
01:04:41.000 --> 01:04:44.760
creating a you're creating a likeness of
a character. So I mean, you

1015
01:04:44.760 --> 01:04:49.239
know you're creating us say it's a
I don't know, some kind of weird

1016
01:04:50.000 --> 01:04:55.159
pumpkin creature or pumpkin head, but
I mean some kind of whoever designs that.

1017
01:04:55.199 --> 01:04:57.079
I mean, if you if it's
in the film, I mean you

1018
01:04:57.400 --> 01:05:00.000
whoever owns the rights of the film
is going to own that that likeness of

1019
01:05:00.039 --> 01:05:03.519
that creature. I mean, of
course, it depends on how the legal

1020
01:05:04.079 --> 01:05:09.239
paperwork was all worked out too.
I mean, maybe they could have licensed

1021
01:05:09.320 --> 01:05:11.960
the image if that they didn't necessarily
own it, you know what I mean.

1022
01:05:12.840 --> 01:05:16.599
But more than the chances are that
whoever, whoever made the film,

1023
01:05:16.599 --> 01:05:19.079
the cruisers that made the film are
the ones that actually own it and can

1024
01:05:19.639 --> 01:05:25.239
license it out and make T shirts
and you know, masks and all that

1025
01:05:25.280 --> 01:05:29.800
thing and that sort of thing.
Because I've actually had masks made from my

1026
01:05:29.840 --> 01:05:31.800
film dark Walker. They made two
masks out of it, two Halloween masks,

1027
01:05:31.880 --> 01:05:34.320
dark Walker WOL one and dark Walker
two. Of course there was never

1028
01:05:34.400 --> 01:05:39.400
a dark Walker two, but they
made a mask called dark Walker two and

1029
01:05:39.400 --> 01:05:41.039
you can look it up. Actually, if you look it up on it

1030
01:05:41.280 --> 01:05:45.440
it's a see it's it's a fantastic
mask. I saw it research. It

1031
01:05:45.480 --> 01:05:49.519
looks way better than the one in
the movie, and it's like, it's

1032
01:05:49.519 --> 01:05:53.119
like, man, I mean that
should have been the creature in the film.

1033
01:05:53.159 --> 01:05:56.400
What happened? So but I mean, if you can just buy one

1034
01:05:56.440 --> 01:06:00.840
and make part two real quick.
You know what's funny is I was in

1035
01:06:00.320 --> 01:06:04.559
I traveled to I think it was
in Indonesia, and I had a I

1036
01:06:04.599 --> 01:06:08.480
found I found you know, I'm
always interested. I'm very interested in foreign

1037
01:06:08.519 --> 01:06:12.039
horror. I love foreign horror films, particularly Asian horror. But I found

1038
01:06:12.039 --> 01:06:14.599
this film and I picked it up
off the shelf, and it was some

1039
01:06:14.679 --> 01:06:15.639
Indonesian horror movie, and I was
looking. I was like, oh,

1040
01:06:15.639 --> 01:06:18.360
it's some kind of weird ghost movie
thing. Because I flipped over to the

1041
01:06:18.400 --> 01:06:25.199
back and I was like, what
the fuck. They had bought the mask

1042
01:06:25.880 --> 01:06:30.519
for my movie Dark Walker and used
it in the movie as if it was

1043
01:06:30.599 --> 01:06:33.440
I that was the creature in their
movie. And then on the back cover

1044
01:06:33.960 --> 01:06:38.159
there's a picture of the mask,
the guy wearing the mask, and then

1045
01:06:38.159 --> 01:06:40.280
you know, they just added a
little blood on it or something to make

1046
01:06:40.320 --> 01:06:42.800
it look a little different and have
a different suit. And then I was

1047
01:06:42.840 --> 01:06:45.320
like, I was like, what
the hell. I mean, Yeah,

1048
01:06:45.320 --> 01:06:45.920
so anyway I thought, I mean, I didn't care. I thought it

1049
01:06:45.920 --> 01:06:47.679
was funny, you know, to
me, I don't wantever, you know,

1050
01:06:47.719 --> 01:06:49.840
go do it. They want to
do that. It's flattering, you

1051
01:06:49.880 --> 01:06:53.760
know, but I just thought it
was hilarious. I was looking at this

1052
01:06:53.800 --> 01:06:57.000
movie, like, what the fuck. So, yeah, I mean,

1053
01:06:57.039 --> 01:06:59.840
it happens, but in that case, it's certainly in that particular case,

1054
01:07:00.360 --> 01:07:04.320
we own the likeness of the mask
of the pressures needed it. So,

1055
01:07:04.679 --> 01:07:10.079
but I think as far as as
far as how it gets created, that

1056
01:07:10.280 --> 01:07:15.000
is usually a conversation with the director. The writer can write it one way,

1057
01:07:15.000 --> 01:07:17.199
but the director might have a different
vision of how it looks. So

1058
01:07:17.280 --> 01:07:23.079
usually the director talks with the either
the makeup artist and and says, hey,

1059
01:07:23.119 --> 01:07:26.119
I want it to look a little
a little like, uh, this

1060
01:07:26.159 --> 01:07:29.159
and this and this, and then
the makeup artists will usually do a Sometimes

1061
01:07:29.159 --> 01:07:30.760
they'll do a drawing. They could
do a drawing for you. Sometimes you

1062
01:07:30.800 --> 01:07:33.000
could have an artist do a drawing
and then you just give it to the

1063
01:07:33.039 --> 01:07:35.480
makeup artists. I want you to
I want you to do a model of

1064
01:07:35.480 --> 01:07:41.960
this. I've done I've done it
both ways. Sometimes the the makeup or

1065
01:07:42.000 --> 01:07:45.679
the special effects artists would would would
do a mock up for you. You

1066
01:07:45.719 --> 01:07:48.400
know, let's just say come in
and they do a they do a you

1067
01:07:48.440 --> 01:07:51.719
know, a sculpture of it,
and then you can do, you know,

1068
01:07:51.800 --> 01:07:55.480
do some adjustments there, and then
once you're satisfied with it, then

1069
01:07:55.480 --> 01:08:00.000
they mold it and and there they
make the prosthetics that they need to make

1070
01:08:00.199 --> 01:08:02.400
and you're done, you know,
and uh and uh, you have a

1071
01:08:02.480 --> 01:08:05.760
you have your your new character.
So that's kind of really the process with

1072
01:08:05.800 --> 01:08:09.960
it. It's it's kind of a
colla definitely a collaborative process. I mean,

1073
01:08:10.679 --> 01:08:14.000
if you have something super specific in
mine, it's a good idea to

1074
01:08:14.159 --> 01:08:18.239
hire a u an artist to draw
it for you to do, even if

1075
01:08:18.239 --> 01:08:23.279
it's just a simple pencil drawing to
somebody to draw what you have in mind

1076
01:08:23.880 --> 01:08:27.760
and hand that to somebody who can
execute it as a as a prosthetic,

1077
01:08:28.039 --> 01:08:32.640
uh or or whatever you know,
particular effect you're doing. So that's that's

1078
01:08:32.720 --> 01:08:35.279
kind of how that that whole thing
works. Yeah, Now would you say

1079
01:08:35.319 --> 01:08:39.560
that's a lot more effective than I
mean, not effective, but a lot

1080
01:08:39.600 --> 01:08:45.840
more economic if you're trying to do
a creature I mean, is there any

1081
01:08:45.119 --> 01:08:49.399
way you can do CGI or something
like that in these low budget movies?

1082
01:08:49.560 --> 01:08:53.279
Oh yeah, no, totally.
I've done it several times to fix bad

1083
01:08:53.319 --> 01:08:58.479
makeup what I've had. I've did
it on Ghost Month, I did it

1084
01:08:58.520 --> 01:09:00.800
on Real Evil. What I call
I call it digital makeup, and what

1085
01:09:01.119 --> 01:09:03.840
it is is you know, you
go, you know, I had a

1086
01:09:03.840 --> 01:09:09.359
situation where, you know, we
did some makeup tests and I thought it

1087
01:09:09.399 --> 01:09:11.560
was going to look better than it
did. And then we got to set

1088
01:09:11.720 --> 01:09:15.399
and the guy came out, and
I was like, what the fuck did

1089
01:09:15.399 --> 01:09:17.920
they? I mean, it just
looked it looks so bad. I mean,

1090
01:09:17.960 --> 01:09:20.000
it happens a lot on the little
budget movies. Happens to me,

1091
01:09:20.039 --> 01:09:24.800
seems seems like a lot in my
earlier movies. It was like a lot

1092
01:09:24.840 --> 01:09:28.560
of times it would be the first
time that I had actually even seen the

1093
01:09:28.600 --> 01:09:30.880
makeup. Would be when I'm on
set. We we would hire somebody,

1094
01:09:30.920 --> 01:09:33.439
then we would we just didn't have
the bunny and the budget and the time,

1095
01:09:33.479 --> 01:09:36.000
and it would just be they would
come out and say here's the vampire,

1096
01:09:36.119 --> 01:09:40.880
and I was like, Okay,
what Halloween store did we go to?

1097
01:09:41.079 --> 01:09:45.359
Right? And so so I would
spend all this energy trying to figure

1098
01:09:45.359 --> 01:09:47.640
out how I'm going to cover this, How I'm gonna not show this person

1099
01:09:47.680 --> 01:09:50.399
because it looks so ridiculous. So
a lot of times they'll be in shadow

1100
01:09:50.560 --> 01:09:53.960
or you don't you don't stay on
them too long, and it was just

1101
01:09:54.039 --> 01:09:57.199
like, you know, always like
that. But I remember one film it

1102
01:09:57.279 --> 01:10:04.399
was like, we'll be right back
after a word from our sponsor, and

1103
01:10:04.479 --> 01:10:10.560
now back to the show. The
guy came out and I was like,

1104
01:10:10.800 --> 01:10:13.439
I was like, what, you
know, he looks like he looks like

1105
01:10:14.239 --> 01:10:16.560
powder, you know, the guy
from the Powder picked herself. It just

1106
01:10:16.640 --> 01:10:18.960
it just looked terrible. And I
was like, it didn't look at anything

1107
01:10:19.000 --> 01:10:21.479
like. So I was like,
okay, well, let's change. I

1108
01:10:21.479 --> 01:10:24.359
talk to the DP. I was
like, look, you know, we

1109
01:10:24.439 --> 01:10:27.800
got I gotta shoot this because there's
no there's no where in the middle of

1110
01:10:27.800 --> 01:10:30.159
the desert. There's nothing else we
can do, so we you know,

1111
01:10:30.319 --> 01:10:33.119
I said. I talked to him
about changing the lighting up and changing in

1112
01:10:33.159 --> 01:10:36.079
the way we're gonna shoot it and
how I'm gonna shoot it and that sort

1113
01:10:36.079 --> 01:10:40.279
of thing, and and you know, it helped. And then when I

1114
01:10:40.319 --> 01:10:44.079
got it into post, because that's
kind of one of my things specialties is,

1115
01:10:44.359 --> 01:10:45.600
I was like, I gave it
to a friend and I said,

1116
01:10:45.600 --> 01:10:47.920
hey, you, let's do some
digital makeup on this guy because he looks

1117
01:10:47.960 --> 01:10:50.760
ridiculous. So I had his face
morph into like a SkELL Thiner and you

1118
01:10:50.760 --> 01:10:55.279
know, and I had the other
girl's face morph into this weird like Corpsey

1119
01:10:55.319 --> 01:10:58.479
looking thing and so on and so
forth, and it worked great. And

1120
01:10:58.520 --> 01:11:00.560
after that I was happy because I
was like, oh, good, because

1121
01:11:00.560 --> 01:11:03.199
it looks a little more supernatural now
because their face is actually morphing from some

1122
01:11:03.199 --> 01:11:06.960
some one one state to another state. So it looked a little bit it

1123
01:11:08.000 --> 01:11:11.159
was fun or to use. But
but yeah, I mean that's happened,

1124
01:11:11.279 --> 01:11:14.239
and to me, several times I
did it on Real Evil too. There

1125
01:11:14.359 --> 01:11:17.800
was some stuff where the it wasn't
that the makeup was necessarily it wasn't that

1126
01:11:17.840 --> 01:11:20.079
the make ida it wasn't happy with
the makeup on that when it was more

1127
01:11:20.119 --> 01:11:24.359
that I thought it could be scarier, so we added the digital makeup onto

1128
01:11:24.359 --> 01:11:29.520
it to make it even scarier.
So so yeah, that's uh, that

1129
01:11:29.680 --> 01:11:34.600
definitely, uh, definitely happens.
And you can roll roll with the roll

1130
01:11:34.640 --> 01:11:38.359
with the punches with what you gotta
work with. But sometimes you can fix

1131
01:11:38.399 --> 01:11:42.840
the stuff like that in post if
you have the know how right, you

1132
01:11:42.840 --> 01:11:45.279
believe in the idea, that's better
not to see the monster. You know

1133
01:11:45.359 --> 01:11:48.520
that it's more scary. You know. I'm I'm a huge fan of Jaws.

1134
01:11:48.520 --> 01:11:51.359
That's one of my favorite movies.
So I'm always like you know,

1135
01:11:51.520 --> 01:11:55.960
and and you know, Spielberg's big
influence was a movie called kat Eyes,

1136
01:11:56.119 --> 01:11:58.680
you know, and so he he
was like, well, I don't know

1137
01:11:58.720 --> 01:12:01.720
how to tell the story. The
sharp is terrible. So we got to

1138
01:12:01.760 --> 01:12:04.359
find a way to shoot this movie
without showing the shark. So, you

1139
01:12:04.399 --> 01:12:08.640
know, he was talking about how
this movie Cat Eyes, you never ever

1140
01:12:08.680 --> 01:12:14.680
see the creature. You're the monster, the cat or whatever. Yeah,

1141
01:12:14.720 --> 01:12:17.119
so I would think that's another way
to kind of, like, you know,

1142
01:12:17.359 --> 01:12:19.640
and even if you have a cool
character, to kind of keep it

1143
01:12:19.680 --> 01:12:24.359
in the dark, you know,
until maybe towards the end where you do

1144
01:12:24.520 --> 01:12:27.479
like a reveal or something like that. Yeah. No, absolutely, I

1145
01:12:27.520 --> 01:12:30.000
think I think I'm a firm believer
in that. Absolutely, And it's it's

1146
01:12:30.319 --> 01:12:38.239
a closed door is way scarier than
than to not know what's behind that door

1147
01:12:38.359 --> 01:12:41.920
or what's in that darkness. But
you know, something is there is such

1148
01:12:41.960 --> 01:12:45.159
a great technique, a horror movie
making technique that you know that be the

1149
01:12:45.279 --> 01:12:51.760
mind of the audience just goes goes
crazy, you know, and you know,

1150
01:12:51.840 --> 01:12:55.039
and I think that's it's a great
that those are the kind of films

1151
01:12:55.039 --> 01:12:58.079
that I prefer to make. You
know, I'm I'm totally like more of

1152
01:12:58.079 --> 01:13:00.439
a classical or guy like I like
to make movie like a Rosemary's Baby or

1153
01:13:00.880 --> 01:13:03.439
you know, or all the ones
I mentioned before. You know, those

1154
01:13:03.520 --> 01:13:06.920
those are the films I like to
make. But you know, when you're

1155
01:13:06.960 --> 01:13:12.920
making something for higher or for as
a producer for higher director or higher oftentimes

1156
01:13:13.000 --> 01:13:15.279
you don't really have those options.
A lot of times they you know,

1157
01:13:15.680 --> 01:13:18.079
the companies are the distributors. They
want to see a lot more because it

1158
01:13:18.119 --> 01:13:23.439
makes a great trailer, you know, where it makes a great piece of

1159
01:13:23.560 --> 01:13:25.479
art, you know, or that
sort of thing, you know, which

1160
01:13:25.520 --> 01:13:30.600
of course is obviously completely business related, not artistic related. But but you

1161
01:13:30.640 --> 01:13:33.640
know, I mean, you know, it's entertainment businesses like that. It's

1162
01:13:33.760 --> 01:13:40.359
it's the combination of art and commerce, you know, and and you it's

1163
01:13:40.439 --> 01:13:45.520
just finding a way to still get
your vision on the screen, but understanding

1164
01:13:45.560 --> 01:13:51.000
that you have to walk down a
wavy you know, a sort of a

1165
01:13:51.479 --> 01:13:56.840
wavy way of trying to get get
the commerce out of it, but still

1166
01:13:56.880 --> 01:13:59.000
trying to get the art out of
it at the same time, you know,

1167
01:14:00.039 --> 01:14:02.560
and being able to compromise and still
get get a good movie made at

1168
01:14:02.600 --> 01:14:05.239
the same time. You know.
It's it's it's it's it's difficult to do,

1169
01:14:05.319 --> 01:14:09.960
no doubt, I mean, so
so yeah, well, a lot

1170
01:14:09.960 --> 01:14:12.399
of the people that I've talked to
who are you know, producers that a

1171
01:14:12.399 --> 01:14:14.680
lot of them are like, you
know, we need to package it in

1172
01:14:14.720 --> 01:14:16.560
such a way that people are gonna
want to watch it in the first place.

1173
01:14:16.720 --> 01:14:19.720
Yeah, but sometimes you have to
hide a good movie within a movie

1174
01:14:19.720 --> 01:14:23.640
that's more commercial, you know,
so it's like I want to watch this.

1175
01:14:23.720 --> 01:14:26.119
You got to get that initial click
and then it's like, oh,

1176
01:14:26.159 --> 01:14:28.479
this is actually a good movie,
you know. Can Jaws to me is

1177
01:14:28.479 --> 01:14:31.199
always the perfect example of that.
It's like the perfect you know, popcorn

1178
01:14:31.239 --> 01:14:34.079
movie, but inside of it,
it's an amazing movie obviously, you know

1179
01:14:34.079 --> 01:14:36.600
what I mean. Yeah, totally, man, I mean absolutely, And

1180
01:14:36.640 --> 01:14:40.199
that's that's a great way to look
at it. But I think I think,

1181
01:14:40.800 --> 01:14:43.359
I mean, Jobs, of course
was made you know, thirty whatever

1182
01:14:43.439 --> 01:14:45.880
year, forty years I think now, right four years ago, but and

1183
01:14:45.960 --> 01:14:49.960
that was that was such a great
time to be making movies back then,

1184
01:14:50.039 --> 01:14:54.159
you know. But I think with
now, I mean, with the distribution

1185
01:14:54.239 --> 01:14:58.359
being changed so much, what's happening, uh, I certain, Look,

1186
01:14:58.399 --> 01:15:00.960
I mean just happened on a movie
I just did, so, you know.

1187
01:15:00.000 --> 01:15:03.000
I mean they change the artwork in
the campaign and everything. But a

1188
01:15:03.000 --> 01:15:08.800
lot of it has to do with
when it comes, especially with digital distribution,

1189
01:15:08.840 --> 01:15:12.319
it has to. It comes down
to, like you only get a

1190
01:15:12.359 --> 01:15:15.439
moment for somebody to be browsing through
their Netflix que or or browsing through their

1191
01:15:15.479 --> 01:15:17.840
Hulu queue to stop and say,
hey, that it's kind of cool.

1192
01:15:18.520 --> 01:15:24.439
You know. The title's good if
it's usually higher up on the higher up

1193
01:15:24.439 --> 01:15:27.239
on the list. Sometimes if it's
alphabetical. Sometimes it's good to have,

1194
01:15:27.359 --> 01:15:30.239
like something that starts with an A
or a B, or a C or

1195
01:15:30.239 --> 01:15:31.079
a D. You know, there's
just something that starts with a Z,

1196
01:15:31.319 --> 01:15:34.279
you know, kind of thing.
There's little little things like that that can

1197
01:15:34.359 --> 01:15:41.319
be taken to consideration. But certainly
artwork and trailer are are you know,

1198
01:15:41.640 --> 01:15:45.319
it's so key to to to getting
people to to click on it, you

1199
01:15:45.359 --> 01:15:49.680
know, to watch it, I
mean and uh and in the case of

1200
01:15:49.680 --> 01:15:54.880
a company like say Hulu, you
the filmmaker gets paid per click, so

1201
01:15:55.159 --> 01:15:58.399
every time somebody clicks on that,
they get x amount, you know,

1202
01:15:58.479 --> 01:16:01.920
so you know, it's it's important
to get people to to to watch it.

1203
01:16:01.960 --> 01:16:04.800
And if you can, if if
if that means you know, putting

1204
01:16:04.800 --> 01:16:08.640
together an amazing piece of art and
amazing trailer, then that's what you gotta

1205
01:16:08.720 --> 01:16:13.800
do, you know, right,
So, but but the movie still has

1206
01:16:13.840 --> 01:16:15.800
to stand you know, on its
own too. After you get you can

1207
01:16:15.800 --> 01:16:18.279
get people to click on it,
but you can't necessarily get them to watch

1208
01:16:18.319 --> 01:16:20.720
it. So you still got to
make a good movie. But you can

1209
01:16:20.760 --> 01:16:23.680
have a good trailer or a good
movie, good art. You know,

1210
01:16:24.119 --> 01:16:27.439
you're you're, you're, you're on
your way, you know. Yeah,

1211
01:16:27.600 --> 01:16:30.640
it just seems like nowadays, you
you know, especially with Netflix, if

1212
01:16:30.680 --> 01:16:33.880
you go into the horror section,
it's like they put all this money into

1213
01:16:34.159 --> 01:16:38.560
the graphic design of the poster and
then you start watching it and it's like,

1214
01:16:39.640 --> 01:16:42.399
oh, yeah, this is terrible. Yeah, it's like they just

1215
01:16:42.479 --> 01:16:44.720
kind of made it. I mean, it must have been bought as part

1216
01:16:44.760 --> 01:16:46.720
of like a larger package or something, you know, but the movie just

1217
01:16:46.800 --> 01:16:51.199
completely there's nothing to it. It's
badly shot, you know. So,

1218
01:16:51.359 --> 01:16:55.880
you know, we've gotten into this
world I think where it's almost kind of

1219
01:16:55.880 --> 01:16:59.079
like social media. People are trying
to figure out how to get more stars

1220
01:16:59.159 --> 01:17:02.439
on things. People trying to just
like get things shared around. But you

1221
01:17:02.479 --> 01:17:05.159
know, the quality a lot of
times isn't there. You know. Sure,

1222
01:17:05.680 --> 01:17:11.199
I probably made one of two of
those that you could I mean you

1223
01:17:11.279 --> 01:17:13.439
no, you're absolutely right. I
mean you'll click on I mean, look

1224
01:17:13.520 --> 01:17:15.800
I I click on this stuff,
and I'm like, what the fuck,

1225
01:17:15.800 --> 01:17:18.159
you know, and then it just
that's why I just like to watch classics

1226
01:17:18.199 --> 01:17:24.000
my private main. But I mean, yeah, yeah, totally. It's

1227
01:17:24.039 --> 01:17:28.439
it's in they're bought as packages,
they're bought as other deals or licensing deals

1228
01:17:28.560 --> 01:17:33.119
with guy who knows. You know, there's Voodoo and Hulu and Netflix and

1229
01:17:33.159 --> 01:17:39.199
all these other distributors that the Amazon
and Prime all that stuff. Yeah.

1230
01:17:39.279 --> 01:17:42.000
Yeah. So one of the things
that I try to do kind of with

1231
01:17:42.119 --> 01:17:45.520
you know, the podcast is you
know, trying trying to find that kind

1232
01:17:45.520 --> 01:17:48.960
of line between Okay, there's people
I talked to a lot of people who

1233
01:17:48.960 --> 01:17:53.880
are just doing purely you know,
art films that are like you know,

1234
01:17:54.079 --> 01:17:58.000
stories of tragedy and things that have
you know, I mean, and they're

1235
01:17:58.000 --> 01:18:00.359
probably going to be really good movies. Sure, they're never going to be

1236
01:18:00.399 --> 01:18:02.840
able to sell them, right,
It's like it's never going to go anywhere.

1237
01:18:02.880 --> 01:18:05.439
So I'm always kind of like,
okay, well there's got you know,

1238
01:18:05.479 --> 01:18:09.800
like the stuff that I write is
more you know, in the horror,

1239
01:18:09.800 --> 01:18:13.479
you know, monster movie kind of
thing. But inside of the movie,

1240
01:18:13.800 --> 01:18:16.680
there's like stories, characters, and
there's like an actual you know,

1241
01:18:17.560 --> 01:18:20.600
hopefully you know, an actual good
movie inside of that. You know.

1242
01:18:21.000 --> 01:18:24.479
So I always try to tell people, you know, try to do something.

1243
01:18:24.520 --> 01:18:27.920
I mean, it's good to make
a movie about you know, you're

1244
01:18:27.920 --> 01:18:30.199
growing up in a small town and
this and that, and but you know,

1245
01:18:30.479 --> 01:18:33.880
you have to connect somehow. If
you can connect with your own audience,

1246
01:18:34.359 --> 01:18:36.920
you know, good, good for
you. You know, go ahead

1247
01:18:36.960 --> 01:18:40.439
and do that, and that's great, but you know, you do have

1248
01:18:40.479 --> 01:18:44.000
to have something that you know,
think about Netflix or iTunes. What are

1249
01:18:44.000 --> 01:18:46.239
people going to click on? You
know, absolutely, I mean again it's

1250
01:18:46.319 --> 01:18:49.840
art and commerce because I mean,
so many people I I I know,

1251
01:18:49.880 --> 01:18:54.199
I know certainly happens a lot with
me when when people find out I'm I'm

1252
01:18:54.239 --> 01:18:57.840
a producer and director or whatever that's
and especially if you're not in the business

1253
01:18:57.840 --> 01:18:59.640
too, all of a sudden,
they're like, well, I would go

1254
01:18:59.640 --> 01:19:02.279
out of story for you. And
then they start telling me their life story

1255
01:19:02.359 --> 01:19:05.680
about this and that and and and
and you know, and for them,

1256
01:19:05.760 --> 01:19:10.079
yeah, it's it's their own story. But they what they don't understand is

1257
01:19:10.399 --> 01:19:13.399
everybody's got a story, you know, but not, you know, not

1258
01:19:13.399 --> 01:19:15.880
not every story makes a good movie, you know. So you know,

1259
01:19:15.960 --> 01:19:18.760
I mean there's plenty of stories out
there like yeah, at the time that

1260
01:19:18.800 --> 01:19:24.039
my my uh boyfriend did this,
wouldn't I make it a great movie?

1261
01:19:24.039 --> 01:19:27.079
And you're just kind of like,
well, not really know. I mean,

1262
01:19:27.479 --> 01:19:30.039
you know, it's deeper than that. I mean, it's a lot

1263
01:19:30.039 --> 01:19:31.039
deeper than that. And a lot
of that has to do. I mean,

1264
01:19:31.039 --> 01:19:35.239
it's gonna it's gonna do with the
the certainly, the the the the

1265
01:19:35.279 --> 01:19:42.039
premise you know of it is has
to be compelling, and the characters have

1266
01:19:42.119 --> 01:19:45.119
to be compelling. The story,
the telling has to be compelling. The

1267
01:19:45.199 --> 01:19:47.159
writing has to be compelling. I
mean, before you even get to all

1268
01:19:47.159 --> 01:19:51.960
this stuff that we're talking about,
we'll be right back after a word from

1269
01:19:51.960 --> 01:20:00.520
our sponsor, and now back to
the show. I mean, we just

1270
01:20:00.600 --> 01:20:04.199
you need to rewind and go back
to the to your to your your premise,

1271
01:20:04.279 --> 01:20:08.319
your concept, and then and then
if you have a great premise and

1272
01:20:08.359 --> 01:20:11.039
a great concept, then you you
you know, work up a treatment.

1273
01:20:11.279 --> 01:20:13.560
You work up a treatment, you
work out some bugs, you work up

1274
01:20:13.560 --> 01:20:15.199
the script. You know, then
then you got more time to work on

1275
01:20:15.239 --> 01:20:18.359
that script. You keep working,
you keep chiseling that down to to the

1276
01:20:18.359 --> 01:20:21.399
way it needs to be. And
if you know kind of what budget level

1277
01:20:21.399 --> 01:20:25.680
you're going to shoot it on,
then you need to limit the locations and

1278
01:20:25.720 --> 01:20:29.239
limit the amount of people that are
in the in the scenes. And uh.

1279
01:20:29.279 --> 01:20:30.760
And then when you once you get
that all nice and polished up,

1280
01:20:32.039 --> 01:20:35.039
give it to a few people that
that don't read scripts for a living and

1281
01:20:35.039 --> 01:20:38.720
and see what they think. And
then and then do one more pass on

1282
01:20:38.760 --> 01:20:42.720
it, you know you and then
and then at some point around there,

1283
01:20:42.800 --> 01:20:45.479
then maybe it's time to start,
you know, getting the money to do

1284
01:20:45.520 --> 01:20:48.000
it and put it in actually green
light it and put it into and put

1285
01:20:48.039 --> 01:20:50.840
it into production. But I think
a lot of people don't spend enough time

1286
01:20:50.840 --> 01:20:55.640
on the script. And so I'm
certainly guilty of that. I it's certainly

1287
01:20:55.680 --> 01:20:59.159
guilty of films that I've made that
were just like, you know, you

1288
01:20:59.159 --> 01:21:00.319
you add, you're just like,
the script's not ready, Oh well we're

1289
01:21:00.319 --> 01:21:04.520
shooting next week, oh you know, and you try to roll with it

1290
01:21:04.640 --> 01:21:06.760
like, oh, maybe there's something
I can do to make it better,

1291
01:21:06.920 --> 01:21:10.119
and you know, and you're like, no, not really, because if

1292
01:21:10.119 --> 01:21:12.560
it's not on the page to begin
with it's not only so much you can

1293
01:21:12.600 --> 01:21:15.079
do with it, you know.
So yeah, it's it's trying, and

1294
01:21:15.159 --> 01:21:17.960
you don't want to go into production
with something that's that's not ready. But

1295
01:21:19.760 --> 01:21:23.279
yeah, I mean it's so it's
it's it's it's such important, it's it's

1296
01:21:23.319 --> 01:21:27.600
actually one chat one section in this
book that I wasn't able to because it's

1297
01:21:27.600 --> 01:21:29.920
a whole different book. I mean, I can't. I can't write like

1298
01:21:30.479 --> 01:21:34.039
twenty five pages about about screenwriting and
storytelling and everything. So I just there

1299
01:21:34.079 --> 01:21:39.279
was kind of an overview in my
book about getting started and how to you

1300
01:21:39.279 --> 01:21:42.800
know, combine mosters, you know, stuff to inspire to get it going.

1301
01:21:42.920 --> 01:21:45.319
And then the rest is about actually
making the film, production and distribution

1302
01:21:45.359 --> 01:21:49.760
and everything. But the screenwriting aspect
of it, which it's it's a whole

1303
01:21:49.760 --> 01:21:55.119
another book in itself. But if
you're you know, if you're starting filmmaker

1304
01:21:55.279 --> 01:22:00.720
and you really want to get some
really good books on screenwriting, there's there's

1305
01:22:00.760 --> 01:22:03.800
so many out there. Certainly Story
by Robert McKee is probably one of the

1306
01:22:03.800 --> 01:22:10.560
best ones. There's a an endless
amount of them that have been written.

1307
01:22:10.800 --> 01:22:12.960
I wouldn't say all of them are
good, but I would say uh,

1308
01:22:14.199 --> 01:22:16.800
there's some. There's certainly some that
have been written on on specifically on horror.

1309
01:22:18.039 --> 01:22:20.680
I think the one guy writte one
on the genre filmmaking. Can't remember

1310
01:22:20.680 --> 01:22:24.239
the name of the author, but
but just yeah, I just take a

1311
01:22:24.239 --> 01:22:28.439
look at what's out there, and
uh, well you'll you'll see. But

1312
01:22:28.640 --> 01:22:31.479
one of the what I find that's
even that's even better than that. It

1313
01:22:31.520 --> 01:22:33.600
means great, it's great to do
to read it. And you know,

1314
01:22:33.720 --> 01:22:36.000
and if you if you understand,
agree, if not, you know that

1315
01:22:36.479 --> 01:22:40.279
you know, read read more.
But one of the best things to do

1316
01:22:40.479 --> 01:22:45.640
is to actually read screenplays. To
to get horror screenplays if that's the genre

1317
01:22:45.840 --> 01:22:48.800
of your choice, certainly is there's
a lot of them available out there,

1318
01:22:49.560 --> 01:22:54.680
excuse me, on the online is
to you know, to get them and

1319
01:22:54.720 --> 01:22:58.319
to read them and to study them
and look at the formatting, look at

1320
01:22:58.319 --> 01:23:02.079
the way that that that it's that
written, and and and really really study

1321
01:23:02.359 --> 01:23:05.479
the screen the screenplay page. I
mean, I'm a writer myself, so

1322
01:23:05.520 --> 01:23:11.000
I have an extensive collection of screenplays. I mean I have a whole shelf.

1323
01:23:11.039 --> 01:23:15.000
I mean just just like literally like
a thousand screenplays that are on my

1324
01:23:15.039 --> 01:23:17.760
shelf. And and you know,
and I just go over when I want

1325
01:23:17.800 --> 01:23:19.680
to and say, oh, I'm
going to read the script for you Turn,

1326
01:23:19.760 --> 01:23:23.760
or I'm going to read the script
for Knocked Up or whatever it is.

1327
01:23:23.800 --> 01:23:26.000
I mean, those are horror films, but I mean I have I

1328
01:23:26.039 --> 01:23:29.800
have the script for hell Raiser and
you know, and I have the script

1329
01:23:29.800 --> 01:23:33.479
for you know, House on Haunted
Hill with script notes. You know that's

1330
01:23:33.520 --> 01:23:36.960
right, and and and you know
that's that's really I think one of the

1331
01:23:36.960 --> 01:23:42.039
most powerful ways to learn how to
how to how to how to write is

1332
01:23:42.079 --> 01:23:45.359
to read great other writers that are
really great and study them, you know,

1333
01:23:45.800 --> 01:23:48.680
right, Yeah, I think it's
kind of like through osmosis in a

1334
01:23:48.720 --> 01:23:54.119
way. I remember I used to
read the Aliens screenplay all the time,

1335
01:23:54.359 --> 01:23:57.960
you know, and it was just
like I would read it over and over

1336
01:23:58.000 --> 01:24:00.399
and over again, and then when
I would go back and actually watch the

1337
01:24:00.439 --> 01:24:02.600
film, I would remember kind of
how it looked, you know, on

1338
01:24:02.680 --> 01:24:04.960
the on the page, and how
it kind of came to life, and

1339
01:24:05.039 --> 01:24:11.640
you really realize how kind of succinct
that has to all be. You know,

1340
01:24:11.720 --> 01:24:15.640
screenplays have to be completely just tight. There can't be one, you

1341
01:24:15.680 --> 01:24:16.960
know, moment in it that doesn't
have a reason. You know, and

1342
01:24:16.960 --> 01:24:20.039
if you read those screenplays, you
know, especially the you know, the

1343
01:24:20.079 --> 01:24:24.560
classics or even just good movies,
you know, I think you kind of

1344
01:24:24.600 --> 01:24:27.359
just see, uh, you know, you don't have It's not like a

1345
01:24:27.359 --> 01:24:30.479
book where you have a lot of
pages that you know probably could be left

1346
01:24:30.520 --> 01:24:33.920
out. But let me ask you
one more thing about that, because a

1347
01:24:33.920 --> 01:24:39.960
lot of screenwriters listen to this.
Do the companies where you've worked for,

1348
01:24:40.079 --> 01:24:45.720
the production houses, do they regularly
I mean where are they getting their writers

1349
01:24:45.760 --> 01:24:49.239
and screenplays from? I mean do
you find that they're mostly people that are

1350
01:24:49.319 --> 01:24:55.079
in town or do they ever,
like just find people outside of town submit

1351
01:24:55.159 --> 01:24:57.359
screenplays and stuff like that. Oh? Yeah, sure, I'd be happy

1352
01:24:57.359 --> 01:25:00.399
to answer. Before I do,
I wanted to add to your your Aliens

1353
01:25:00.680 --> 01:25:04.039
comment on the screenplay. There's there's
actually a really cool book if you haven't

1354
01:25:04.119 --> 01:25:09.000
checked it out, it's called Dan
O'Bannon wrote it. It's Dan O'Bannon's Guide

1355
01:25:09.039 --> 01:25:12.800
to Screenplay Structure. Oh really,
I don't think i've ever seen. Yeah,

1356
01:25:12.920 --> 01:25:16.439
he actually wrote a book on on
his sort of methodology to how he's

1357
01:25:16.520 --> 01:25:21.479
how he he writes, particularly Alien, and he has a very it's it's

1358
01:25:21.520 --> 01:25:25.399
it's it's an interesting read. He's
a very unorthodox way of doing it.

1359
01:25:25.479 --> 01:25:28.560
But I think, I think if
for screenwriters that are reading this, and

1360
01:25:28.880 --> 01:25:30.279
certainly for me as a screenwriter myself, I found it. I found it

1361
01:25:30.319 --> 01:25:34.479
really really insightful to see how somebody
like Dan O'Bannon, who of course wrote

1362
01:25:34.479 --> 01:25:41.000
Aliens Alien it works A Night of
Living Dad, Sorry, Cheez night Live

1363
01:25:41.319 --> 01:25:44.960
Return to the Living Daddy wrote Returning
Living Dad too, of course. Uh.

1364
01:25:45.000 --> 01:25:46.800
And it's really it's a it's a
it's a cool it's a cool little

1365
01:25:46.800 --> 01:25:51.800
it's a cool read. So you
should check it out. Yeah, the

1366
01:25:51.840 --> 01:25:57.800
ready to do it. But certainly, uh, I think most filmmakers would

1367
01:25:57.800 --> 01:25:59.960
agree that. But one of the
best ways to learn how to make movie

1368
01:26:00.119 --> 01:26:04.439
is certainly to one watch movies but
watch them, not watch them just to

1369
01:26:04.479 --> 01:26:08.359
watch him once them once, just
to watch them, but watch it twice,

1370
01:26:08.399 --> 01:26:10.640
to study it, you know,
and to really break it apart,

1371
01:26:11.000 --> 01:26:15.439
and to to to read screenplays.
I'm always amazed how many people I meet

1372
01:26:15.199 --> 01:26:18.159
that that. And I asked him
like, like, what do you have

1373
01:26:18.199 --> 01:26:23.760
a screenplay? Like you want to
be a screenwriter and you don't have any

1374
01:26:23.800 --> 01:26:27.600
screenplays in your house? You know, you don't read screenplays. Who know,

1375
01:26:27.840 --> 01:26:30.039
it's just just my own you know, like okay, you know,

1376
01:26:30.359 --> 01:26:33.560
so so are you gonna be are
you gonna make your own music but only

1377
01:26:33.560 --> 01:26:36.319
listen to your own music? You
know? And it doesn't make any sense.

1378
01:26:36.399 --> 01:26:39.760
You have you know, you have
to you know, if you if

1379
01:26:39.760 --> 01:26:44.439
you're a screenwriter and you don't have
like either a folder on your computer with

1380
01:26:44.479 --> 01:26:46.720
a bunch of PDF screenplays that you
you bought, you know, to to

1381
01:26:46.720 --> 01:26:50.319
to to read and study, or
actually have a lot of screenplays in your

1382
01:26:50.319 --> 01:26:54.560
own personal library, or if you
don't even have a personal library and you

1383
01:26:54.560 --> 01:26:57.720
want and you're a writer or a
screenwriter, you know, it's like,

1384
01:26:57.760 --> 01:26:59.960
you know, yeah, it kind
of might be gone of a good idea

1385
01:27:00.199 --> 01:27:03.079
to do something like that. I
mean, Newmarket Press is probably one of

1386
01:27:03.079 --> 01:27:06.840
the most well known publishers that published
screenplays, and I would highly recommend checking

1387
01:27:06.840 --> 01:27:10.760
out that particular publishing company. They
publish a lot of that stuff. But

1388
01:27:10.800 --> 01:27:14.800
there's a lot of that out there
that that that you that you should that

1389
01:27:14.840 --> 01:27:18.560
you should should get out and study. So anyway, with that said,

1390
01:27:17.039 --> 01:27:24.720
uh, that transitions just into the
screenwriting question. And I'd hired plenty of

1391
01:27:24.760 --> 01:27:32.720
writers and as a producer us.
Certainly I hired them for a number of

1392
01:27:32.760 --> 01:27:39.159
reasons. But usual sometimes it's because
I'm I just don't have the time to

1393
01:27:39.159 --> 01:27:42.039
write it myself. Because as as
a writer myself, usually I want to

1394
01:27:42.039 --> 01:27:43.680
write it myself, but I'm kind
of like, oh God, I just

1395
01:27:43.760 --> 01:27:45.640
don't have the time, and I
need to spend the time on the producing

1396
01:27:45.640 --> 01:27:48.399
and getting money to even make the
thing and that sort of thing. So

1397
01:27:48.840 --> 01:27:55.880
oftentimes I'll have I'll have I'll hire
a screenwriter, and it's usually it just

1398
01:27:55.920 --> 01:27:59.039
depends, you know, what it
is. But usually on the low budget

1399
01:27:59.119 --> 01:28:03.279
level of things, screen scripts are
written as work for hire, which means

1400
01:28:03.319 --> 01:28:06.720
that the writer actually doesn't omit.
You're writing it for me as a job,

1401
01:28:08.439 --> 01:28:11.920
so you know, you you're you're
getting paid X amount. You know,

1402
01:28:12.239 --> 01:28:17.000
it could be it could be as
ridiculously embarrassingly cheap as fifteen hundred dollars

1403
01:28:17.039 --> 01:28:20.279
to four thousand dollars or five thousand
dollars or ten thousand dollars, you know,

1404
01:28:20.319 --> 01:28:24.760
depending on what the budget is.
Usually usually a writer gets a screenwriter

1405
01:28:24.840 --> 01:28:28.359
gets somewhere around like two percent of
the budget for what for the script.

1406
01:28:29.039 --> 01:28:31.039
I'm just saying, in general,
it's just throwing that around. So two

1407
01:28:31.039 --> 01:28:33.760
percent. So if you're making one
hundred thousand dollars movie, or the writer

1408
01:28:33.920 --> 01:28:38.920
m may have got two grand,
may have got four grand, depending on

1409
01:28:39.079 --> 01:28:41.960
you know, how generous the producer
is. Me particularly, I'm kind of

1410
01:28:41.960 --> 01:28:45.159
generous because I'm a writer myself,
and I know how hard it is to

1411
01:28:45.199 --> 01:28:47.199
do that, to write anything and
then to have to turn it over,

1412
01:28:47.359 --> 01:28:49.520
you know, but sometimes you have
to do that in order to get get

1413
01:28:49.520 --> 01:28:54.039
it made, especially if you're an
unproduced writer. You know, sometimes that's

1414
01:28:54.079 --> 01:28:57.199
the best way to get started.
I mean, you know, if you

1415
01:28:57.239 --> 01:29:00.800
give me a script and you have
no credits at all, and I'm like,

1416
01:29:00.800 --> 01:29:01.680
well, hey, I can make
this movie. We're gonna make it

1417
01:29:01.680 --> 01:29:04.720
for a hundred grand, but I
can get it made. Yeah, Now

1418
01:29:04.760 --> 01:29:08.159
you're going to get paid a little
bit, but you know, the production

1419
01:29:08.159 --> 01:29:10.399
company takes it over, they pay
you, they own the scripted, but

1420
01:29:10.439 --> 01:29:15.159
we actually make the film, and
then that helps you get another gig after,

1421
01:29:15.239 --> 01:29:17.439
you know, that sort of thing, right, But but you know,

1422
01:29:17.479 --> 01:29:19.520
it just depends, you know,
I'm with the low budget stuff,

1423
01:29:19.520 --> 01:29:23.600
you know, usually yeah, it's
usually kind of a standard case where it's

1424
01:29:23.600 --> 01:29:28.399
two percent of the budget or or
and usually the writer it's it's it's a

1425
01:29:28.439 --> 01:29:31.159
work for higher kind of situation,
you know. And I've I've hired plenty

1426
01:29:31.199 --> 01:29:34.159
of different writers, all different kinds
of writers, and a lot of times

1427
01:29:34.199 --> 01:29:39.800
they use alias. Sometimes they use
aliases for what for their for all kinds

1428
01:29:39.840 --> 01:29:44.840
of reasons. Other times they're they
who knows you know what what what what

1429
01:29:45.359 --> 01:29:49.159
it is? But U and and
you you know, they usually have a

1430
01:29:49.239 --> 01:29:53.199
very short amount of time to write
it. So usually I tend to hire

1431
01:29:53.239 --> 01:29:58.199
writers that can write quickly. We'll
be right back after a word from our

1432
01:29:58.199 --> 01:30:06.199
sponsor and now back to the show. But but with quality, you know,

1433
01:30:06.479 --> 01:30:09.560
so I would like for instance,
so I just I hired a write

1434
01:30:09.640 --> 01:30:13.119
or not too long ago, and
I gave him I think I gave him

1435
01:30:13.119 --> 01:30:15.560
a week to work up a treatment, and then we worked out notes on

1436
01:30:15.600 --> 01:30:18.319
the treatment. I think he had. I think he gave him for three

1437
01:30:18.439 --> 01:30:23.560
or four weeks to write the first
draft. So I think he did it

1438
01:30:23.560 --> 01:30:26.800
in three. I think he did
in three, But I've had people do

1439
01:30:26.880 --> 01:30:29.199
it in two, you know,
And then you know, and then we

1440
01:30:29.239 --> 01:30:31.800
would we would certainly do do several
other drafts after that, But the first

1441
01:30:31.880 --> 01:30:34.800
draft, you know, because once
you work out the initial story in the

1442
01:30:34.800 --> 01:30:39.199
treatment and stuff, the drafting part
of it can come a little quicker.

1443
01:30:39.279 --> 01:30:43.680
But and that that's kind of how
that that process works, at least with

1444
01:30:43.680 --> 01:30:45.640
with some of the lower budget of
stuff. The studio levels a whole different

1445
01:30:45.640 --> 01:30:49.640
ball game, a whole different Just
ignore everything I said, because it's a

1446
01:30:49.640 --> 01:30:56.039
whole you're just you're dealing with like
executives and you're you know, you're you're

1447
01:30:56.039 --> 01:31:00.560
dealing with a whole different group of
people. So I'm speaking to you just

1448
01:31:00.640 --> 01:31:04.119
as an independent filmmaker that has hired
people to write films that have been made

1449
01:31:04.199 --> 01:31:08.800
in the under one hundred under two
hundred thousand dollars range, and what a

1450
01:31:08.840 --> 01:31:12.479
typical scenario may be like. So
that's that's what I'm telling you here.

1451
01:31:12.560 --> 01:31:15.880
So it's not so if you're a
screenwriter you're like, oh, fu,

1452
01:31:15.039 --> 01:31:18.800
coming enough for two grand for the
rest of my life be broke and my

1453
01:31:18.880 --> 01:31:21.479
kid's gonna eat that sort of thing. Now that's not really that's not the

1454
01:31:21.479 --> 01:31:26.119
case. But if you're looking to
get it something that you have that's already

1455
01:31:26.159 --> 01:31:29.760
you know, that that you think
could be good for a low budget situation,

1456
01:31:29.920 --> 01:31:30.960
yeah, I mean, yeah,
you can you can do something like

1457
01:31:31.000 --> 01:31:34.039
that? So right, But yeah, I mean I've had people, I

1458
01:31:34.119 --> 01:31:41.800
get people submitting all the time for
scripts. Uh Oftentimes they're just ridiculously too

1459
01:31:41.800 --> 01:31:45.720
complicated, or there's just way too
many locations and way too many characters too

1460
01:31:45.319 --> 01:31:48.560
to execute. You know, it's
usually the case. But you know,

1461
01:31:48.680 --> 01:31:53.560
sometimes people come in with stuff that's
just really well well written, well executed,

1462
01:31:53.560 --> 01:31:56.119
and it's simple, you know,
and and and those are the ones

1463
01:31:56.159 --> 01:31:59.960
that I tend to to to like
as far as making on on a low

1464
01:32:00.000 --> 01:32:03.680
on a lower budgeted level. So
so yeah, but but you know,

1465
01:32:03.760 --> 01:32:06.239
if you have something that you're as
a writer, though, if you have

1466
01:32:06.319 --> 01:32:10.439
something that you're that you worked on
for like twelve years and it's like your

1467
01:32:10.439 --> 01:32:14.159
baby, don't sell it to some
producer for two grand, you know what

1468
01:32:14.199 --> 01:32:15.800
I mean. I mean, I'll
be the first one to tell you.

1469
01:32:15.840 --> 01:32:16.680
I mean I would if you gave
it to me. And I'm like,

1470
01:32:16.720 --> 01:32:19.319
man, this is amazing. And
I was like usually I was like,

1471
01:32:19.399 --> 01:32:23.560
dude, I can't give you two
grand for this. No, No,

1472
01:32:23.600 --> 01:32:25.199
I mean I just but I mean, you know, look, I mean,

1473
01:32:25.239 --> 01:32:28.880
just just if you have something that's
like really your your your baby,

1474
01:32:28.960 --> 01:32:31.600
I mean it, don't hang on
to it and it don't just don't just

1475
01:32:31.680 --> 01:32:35.159
let let it go for pennies unless
you really unless you're part of the project.

1476
01:32:35.439 --> 01:32:41.159
Oftentimes I've made deals with writers too
were oftentimes there they were producers,

1477
01:32:41.279 --> 01:32:45.159
so they wrote it. The deal
was that they they're involved in the percentage

1478
01:32:45.199 --> 01:32:49.159
of the any profits, if if
any, usually there's none because movies barely

1479
01:32:49.199 --> 01:32:55.600
make money. And uh, but
they're they're they're more involved in the financial

1480
01:32:55.640 --> 01:32:59.600
pie if there is a pie.
But often if somebody's always eating the pie

1481
01:32:59.680 --> 01:33:02.520
and there is no pie and they're
they're sometimes there's no crumbs either from the

1482
01:33:02.560 --> 01:33:08.560
pie, so uh, you know, but but you know, it's sometimes

1483
01:33:08.560 --> 01:33:11.960
you can make make arrangements like that. Sometimes it's two percent plus a percentage

1484
01:33:12.000 --> 01:33:15.760
of them in the back end.
And you think it's a good way for

1485
01:33:15.760 --> 01:33:18.600
people that are just like trying to
get their start and build up some credits.

1486
01:33:18.640 --> 01:33:20.600
Can I think it's a great way
to start. Yeah, I mean,

1487
01:33:20.640 --> 01:33:25.039
I mean, I think it's better
if you're if if if you're the

1488
01:33:25.119 --> 01:33:28.279
writer and director, because I think
like when you if you're just the writer

1489
01:33:28.800 --> 01:33:30.520
and you get it to another director, they're gonna have you gotta Remember this

1490
01:33:30.560 --> 01:33:34.319
is an interpretive art form here we're
talking. Yeah, So so it starts

1491
01:33:34.359 --> 01:33:36.880
with you, it starts with the
it starts with the idea, it starts

1492
01:33:36.920 --> 01:33:41.000
with the writer. It starts it's
an that thing. But it ends it

1493
01:33:41.119 --> 01:33:44.119
ends in the editing room with some
guy like me that's going, well,

1494
01:33:44.119 --> 01:33:45.359
what the hell is all this dialogue? Let's cut this out? You know,

1495
01:33:46.279 --> 01:33:49.039
it ends, It ends with the
editor, It ends with the director

1496
01:33:49.239 --> 01:33:54.079
at the end kind of your script
down, So like, let's get rid

1497
01:33:54.079 --> 01:33:58.640
of this whole Indianapolis speech. This
is telling me about it. Man,

1498
01:33:58.960 --> 01:34:01.439
you see the ship that I've got
out of the movie. It seems that

1499
01:34:01.479 --> 01:34:04.239
they shot and they're just like,
this scene is so freaking boring. That's

1500
01:34:04.239 --> 01:34:08.720
just cut it out. We call
the hold. They move on. But

1501
01:34:08.960 --> 01:34:12.079
you know, I think I think
if you have the knack for it,

1502
01:34:12.159 --> 01:34:15.039
if you have the personality to be
a director, and you're and you have

1503
01:34:15.119 --> 01:34:19.840
a script that's you're really passionate about, you should consider doing it yourself,

1504
01:34:19.880 --> 01:34:23.920
you know, being the writer director, or if you do get a production

1505
01:34:23.960 --> 01:34:27.760
company involved with it, that you
you you are the direct you in the

1506
01:34:27.920 --> 01:34:30.960
terms are that you you get to
direct it, even though that's that scares

1507
01:34:31.039 --> 01:34:35.479
producers. I honestly, it scares
them a little bit because, especially on

1508
01:34:35.520 --> 01:34:40.079
this level of filmmaking, because you
know, to have a first time anybody

1509
01:34:40.399 --> 01:34:45.199
when you need to pull stuff off
in eight to ten days is very It

1510
01:34:45.239 --> 01:34:47.399
can make the producer very nervous because
it's like that you know what he's doing.

1511
01:34:47.520 --> 01:34:50.279
You know, that's the director behind
the camera. That sort of think.

1512
01:34:51.000 --> 01:34:55.039
But but but if that's the case, you know, hey, you

1513
01:34:55.039 --> 01:34:58.880
know, kickstart it yourself or something, go out and make it yourself.

1514
01:34:58.920 --> 01:35:00.640
You know. You know, I've
always encouraged people like, hey man,

1515
01:35:00.640 --> 01:35:03.399
look at you got your You've got
your own script, and it's great,

1516
01:35:03.439 --> 01:35:05.960
and you think it's something you can
do for a low budget. You know,

1517
01:35:06.000 --> 01:35:10.520
there's there's there's nothing that says you
can't go out and and either what

1518
01:35:10.600 --> 01:35:13.199
you could do, you yea kickstart
or whatever. You know, it's it's

1519
01:35:13.199 --> 01:35:15.159
a crapshoot with that too, but
you know, you could try to do

1520
01:35:15.199 --> 01:35:19.399
some kickstarting. You could maybe hopefully
you're financially well off yourself, maybe you

1521
01:35:19.439 --> 01:35:25.159
could you know, uh, sell
your your ridiculous comic book collection because you're

1522
01:35:25.199 --> 01:35:28.680
in your fifties now and maybe maybe
you don't need to have that anymore,

1523
01:35:28.760 --> 01:35:31.199
and and uh sell your comic book
collection like I think Kevin Smith did to

1524
01:35:31.239 --> 01:35:35.560
make clerks and uh, you know, raise some money, you know,

1525
01:35:35.640 --> 01:35:39.920
and and say, hey, I
you know, look at I can I

1526
01:35:39.960 --> 01:35:43.039
have a I have thirty grand that
I can put into something, you know,

1527
01:35:43.439 --> 01:35:48.800
and instead of that that midlife crisis
car maybe I invest in a in

1528
01:35:48.800 --> 01:35:51.520
my movie and you go out and
do it yourself, and you you maybe

1529
01:35:51.520 --> 01:35:55.000
you produce it yourself and you direct
it yourself and you do it. And

1530
01:35:55.079 --> 01:35:57.880
I think I think for me,
that's always been the best way to do

1531
01:35:57.920 --> 01:36:01.279
it, is to kind of carve
your own path with it, because certainly

1532
01:36:01.319 --> 01:36:09.319
it's it's a little bit more sure
that it's going to happen, But don't

1533
01:36:09.359 --> 01:36:13.840
go into it without at least doing
your due diligence and research and thinking about

1534
01:36:13.880 --> 01:36:16.079
about about how to make movies.
I mean, I mean, certainly,

1535
01:36:16.119 --> 01:36:18.119
you know, you can read the
books, you can read, you know

1536
01:36:18.439 --> 01:36:24.640
all you want, but there's nothing
like experience, you know. And uh

1537
01:36:25.479 --> 01:36:29.720
and you will get experience doing it
yourself that way, believe me. So

1538
01:36:29.720 --> 01:36:30.880
so yeah, man, I mean, I don't know, I think that's

1539
01:36:30.880 --> 01:36:36.720
a good way to to start and
yeah. Yeah, so well, can

1540
01:36:36.760 --> 01:36:41.399
we can we move into post production? Because I know that your big thing,

1541
01:36:41.479 --> 01:36:45.319
and I you know, I know
you guys talked about it a lot

1542
01:36:45.439 --> 01:36:49.880
on Dave Bullis's podcast, so I
recommend everybody you know check that out too.

1543
01:36:49.920 --> 01:36:55.760
But I wanted to talk to you
about post production and you know,

1544
01:36:55.840 --> 01:36:59.199
what, what are the important aspects
of that and what what do people need

1545
01:36:59.319 --> 01:37:03.159
to you know, plan for when
they're beginning. You know, one of

1546
01:37:03.159 --> 01:37:06.159
the things you guys even talked about
was, you know, you have to

1547
01:37:08.039 --> 01:37:11.000
have enough budget to do your post
production, and you know, you can't

1548
01:37:11.039 --> 01:37:14.359
just put it all into shooting it
and then you know, expect to just

1549
01:37:14.399 --> 01:37:17.960
like do the post production aspect of
it, you know, without any money.

1550
01:37:18.640 --> 01:37:20.520
You know, I think people get
kind of stuck with that, you

1551
01:37:20.520 --> 01:37:24.960
know that they they do everything in
production and they get to post production and

1552
01:37:24.960 --> 01:37:27.600
they've run out of budget. Oh
yeah, totally no, Yeah, I

1553
01:37:27.600 --> 01:37:32.000
can totally totally give you some good, good advice on that. Well.

1554
01:37:32.039 --> 01:37:36.600
I think I think when you before
you look, before you get involved in

1555
01:37:36.640 --> 01:37:41.199
your when you start, when you're
ready to start shooting your film in pre

1556
01:37:41.279 --> 01:37:45.560
production, you need to start thinking
about post production in pre production because everything,

1557
01:37:45.600 --> 01:37:47.760
you kind of always have to kind
of work backwards. I mean,

1558
01:37:47.760 --> 01:37:54.159
certainly even from distribution. I would
say I always say start, start from

1559
01:37:54.199 --> 01:37:56.399
where you want this film to end
up. So if you're like, okay,

1560
01:37:56.439 --> 01:37:58.720
I want this film to be theatrical, okay, well, if you

1561
01:37:58.760 --> 01:38:00.960
wanted to be theatrical, probably shouldn't
be shoting on your phone. You know,

1562
01:38:01.000 --> 01:38:03.479
you might want to. You might
want to even though that's happened when

1563
01:38:03.479 --> 01:38:08.720
you're wrong. But if you really
wanted to be a theatrical release, or

1564
01:38:08.760 --> 01:38:12.520
even have the possibility of being a
theatrical release, you want to start deciding

1565
01:38:12.600 --> 01:38:15.479
on your your your cameras, you
know, and say, okay, well

1566
01:38:15.520 --> 01:38:16.840
maybe we should shoot with the Alexa. Maybe we need to shoot at four

1567
01:38:16.920 --> 01:38:21.520
K so we can get a four
K DCP that we can take out to

1568
01:38:21.720 --> 01:38:25.399
screen in theaters and so on and
so forth. So you you, you

1569
01:38:25.479 --> 01:38:29.720
and start thinking about your deliverables,
like, okay, we want to be

1570
01:38:29.760 --> 01:38:31.760
able to sell this fore end.
We want to be able to you know,

1571
01:38:32.039 --> 01:38:35.520
do a full delivery on this too
everywhere. Well okay, that's that's

1572
01:38:35.560 --> 01:38:40.000
great. I'm glad you're thinking about
that in pre production, because what you're

1573
01:38:40.000 --> 01:38:42.439
gonna need to do is you're gonna
It's like I said, you're gonna think

1574
01:38:42.439 --> 01:38:45.920
about what camera you're shooting on you
guys, start thinking about your your how

1575
01:38:45.960 --> 01:38:48.000
you're gonna you know, because you
need to budget that stuff out, Like,

1576
01:38:48.000 --> 01:38:50.159
Hey, we're gonna need M and
E tracks, We're gonna need five

1577
01:38:50.159 --> 01:38:54.159
point one We're gonna need five point
one M and ease, We're gonna need

1578
01:38:54.359 --> 01:38:58.199
uh, We're gonna need to do
the stems. We're gonna need to do

1579
01:38:58.279 --> 01:39:01.880
close captioning. By the way,
you can't even get a movie on iTunes

1580
01:39:01.960 --> 01:39:06.920
unless it's closed captioned, and and
so on and so forth. So I

1581
01:39:06.960 --> 01:39:12.720
mean you you really need to start
thinking about that kind of stuff early on

1582
01:39:12.840 --> 01:39:15.840
and budget for it, because by
the time you get to post, people

1583
01:39:15.840 --> 01:39:16.960
are like, what you mean,
I gotta have that? How much is

1584
01:39:16.960 --> 01:39:19.279
that gonna cost? Oh? I
gotta do five point one M and e

1585
01:39:19.439 --> 01:39:23.000
What the hell is that? You
know? I gotta do? I gotta

1586
01:39:23.039 --> 01:39:26.439
do what you know? I gotta
do. I gotta do QC. What

1587
01:39:26.479 --> 01:39:29.880
the hell is QC? You know
that sort of thing? And how much

1588
01:39:29.920 --> 01:39:31.399
does that cost? Oh? My
god, that costs like five hundred dollars

1589
01:39:31.439 --> 01:39:33.680
to do that, and all of
a sudden, you're you're you're just like

1590
01:39:33.720 --> 01:39:38.600
you're overwhelmed and in your movie doesn't
your movie doesn't get finished because you couldn't

1591
01:39:38.600 --> 01:39:42.159
sell it. Because you didn't you
weren't able to deliver it. And if

1592
01:39:42.159 --> 01:39:45.039
you're not able to deliver your movie, you're in trouble, man. I

1593
01:39:45.039 --> 01:39:46.199
mean, you're gonna spend you know, your because you know, these guys

1594
01:39:46.199 --> 01:39:48.680
aren't gonna wait around forever. When
you get a distribute, when you get

1595
01:39:48.680 --> 01:39:51.600
a distributor on the hook and they
say, we like your film, it's

1596
01:39:51.640 --> 01:39:55.039
really good. We want to make
a deal with you, blah blah blah,

1597
01:39:55.039 --> 01:39:56.680
and then you start looking at the
contract and you're like, oh my

1598
01:39:56.720 --> 01:40:00.800
god, I can't deliver all this
stuff. We'll be right back after a

1599
01:40:00.840 --> 01:40:09.079
word from our sponsor. And now
back to the show. I didn't shoot

1600
01:40:09.119 --> 01:40:11.960
on set stills, or I didn't
shoot I didn't I didn't I didn't do

1601
01:40:12.000 --> 01:40:15.039
this, or it doesn't pass QC
because it has to you know, normally

1602
01:40:15.039 --> 01:40:17.640
has to pass a QC process.
And you have all these post issues,

1603
01:40:17.880 --> 01:40:24.319
you know with God knows what you
know, and they they're like, hey,

1604
01:40:24.359 --> 01:40:26.439
you know, look, we you
know, we're interested in your film.

1605
01:40:26.439 --> 01:40:28.840
But if you can't pass QC,
and if if it's not, if

1606
01:40:28.880 --> 01:40:30.560
you don't, if you can't deliver
what the contract says that we need as

1607
01:40:30.600 --> 01:40:33.960
a delivery, we can't. We
can't take your film. I've seen that

1608
01:40:34.000 --> 01:40:39.039
happen several times with people, you
know, they they their movies just undeliverable.

1609
01:40:39.720 --> 01:40:42.119
It's not it's bad, it just
they couldn't deliver it the way the

1610
01:40:42.159 --> 01:40:45.520
distributor wanted it, so the distributor
had to pass on it. What would

1611
01:40:45.600 --> 01:40:48.880
cause a film not to pass QC? Oh, so many things, so

1612
01:40:48.920 --> 01:40:53.600
many things. Actually, it's one
of the things. I have a really

1613
01:40:53.600 --> 01:40:56.479
good chapter, probably one of the
only ones that are in print, I

1614
01:40:56.520 --> 01:41:01.199
think, in a book about about
the whole sort of the process of delivery,

1615
01:41:01.640 --> 01:41:04.399
you know, mastering and delivery and
all that stuff. And I have

1616
01:41:04.439 --> 01:41:08.159
a little bit and there on QC
and QC For those of you don't know,

1617
01:41:08.279 --> 01:41:12.520
is it say, it's quality control, and it's it's a process.

1618
01:41:13.119 --> 01:41:19.279
It's a very subjective process. And
what happens is your movie goes to a

1619
01:41:19.319 --> 01:41:23.840
lab. Let's just say like like, I don't want to mention any laugh,

1620
01:41:23.960 --> 01:41:28.560
because let's talk to me after this. No, you say your body

1621
01:41:28.600 --> 01:41:30.640
goes to a lab and you for
a QCING process. What they do is

1622
01:41:30.640 --> 01:41:34.520
they take the master and they they
run it through the ring or they they

1623
01:41:34.560 --> 01:41:42.600
they they look at the video,
the levels, the gamma, all all

1624
01:41:42.680 --> 01:41:45.600
these things. They run through a
machine and and and they run it through

1625
01:41:45.600 --> 01:41:46.720
this machine. This machine, I'll
say, oh, this movie's out of

1626
01:41:47.439 --> 01:41:53.640
uh the gamma does this. And
there's there's a dead pixels on these shots.

1627
01:41:53.640 --> 01:41:58.199
And there's a this shot is out
of focus, or there's a there's

1628
01:41:58.239 --> 01:42:00.239
a there's a C stand in the
shot. I mean, I mean literally

1629
01:42:00.239 --> 01:42:02.800
stuff like that, Like there's a
C stand in the shot, you have

1630
01:42:02.840 --> 01:42:08.279
to that's that's a QC flag or
a dead pixel, which can happen,

1631
01:42:08.359 --> 01:42:11.399
you know on digital cameras sometimes it's
just a dead pixel in the middle.

1632
01:42:11.760 --> 01:42:15.560
Very hard you know to get rid
of those sometimes us if you're shooting on

1633
01:42:15.600 --> 01:42:17.039
film, it could be film scratches, you know, all the way to

1634
01:42:17.319 --> 01:42:23.359
uh uh uh stuff being out of
focus and so and so whatever. And

1635
01:42:23.359 --> 01:42:29.439
it's it's grated like a by a
number system, so you have like one,

1636
01:42:29.600 --> 01:42:32.119
a one, two, and a
three Like a one is like kind

1637
01:42:32.159 --> 01:42:34.359
of they're just letting you know,
kind of thing it's not. It doesn't

1638
01:42:34.399 --> 01:42:39.000
won't cause you to pass. Two
is kind of like not really enough too.

1639
01:42:39.319 --> 01:42:42.199
It's bad, but it's not that
bad. Three is like absolutely,

1640
01:42:42.239 --> 01:42:44.880
you have to fix this kind of
thing, you know. So it's it's

1641
01:42:44.920 --> 01:42:48.079
grated on scale. In my book, I put in I think two examples

1642
01:42:48.119 --> 01:42:53.119
of what a QC report actually looks
like, and ones that have passed and

1643
01:42:53.199 --> 01:42:56.279
ones that have failed. And they'll
they'll pick out all kinds of stuff audio

1644
01:42:56.359 --> 01:43:00.279
chances, particularly audio. They'll they'll
pick out things like the folly is off,

1645
01:43:00.439 --> 01:43:03.399
or she has a bracelet on,
but we're not hearing the bracelet,

1646
01:43:03.479 --> 01:43:05.319
you know, on the M and
E track. I mean, stuff like

1647
01:43:05.359 --> 01:43:09.800
that, lips mats, you know, I mean just the most ridiculous stuff

1648
01:43:09.800 --> 01:43:11.600
that you're just like, oh my
god, you know, what is wrong

1649
01:43:11.640 --> 01:43:15.079
with these people? So yeah,
but but it's a very real and a

1650
01:43:15.199 --> 01:43:19.479
very important part of the selling of
the film process. So it's like,

1651
01:43:19.520 --> 01:43:24.119
if there's just too many things in
there, then you fail to QC chest

1652
01:43:24.600 --> 01:43:29.640
Okay, there's only two outcomes to
QC okays and fail. There's no in

1653
01:43:29.760 --> 01:43:32.039
between. If you fail, forget
about your distribution. I mean, you

1654
01:43:32.039 --> 01:43:34.159
have a chance to fix it.
They'll say, Okay, well it failed,

1655
01:43:34.159 --> 01:43:36.079
so you need to fix all this
stuff. But if you go back

1656
01:43:36.119 --> 01:43:39.279
and like, I can't fix it, there's no there's no way I can

1657
01:43:39.319 --> 01:43:41.800
fix it, well, you're probably
not going to get the distribution deal at

1658
01:43:41.800 --> 01:43:45.560
you just you try to get because
nobody, no distributor wants to take a

1659
01:43:45.560 --> 01:43:48.399
movie that's failed QC and certainly for
TV for television. You know, like

1660
01:43:48.399 --> 01:43:55.840
my film Ghost Month premiered on NBC
Universal's chill or TV. It's a main

1661
01:43:55.920 --> 01:43:58.760
television network, so you see,
you know, but it had to pass

1662
01:43:59.039 --> 01:44:01.079
a QC and it did as I
shot it on thirty five and I did

1663
01:44:01.159 --> 01:44:03.079
the post so I made sure it
passed. But it had, you know,

1664
01:44:03.119 --> 01:44:05.680
it had it's it's share fair problems. But I was able to fix

1665
01:44:05.720 --> 01:44:10.439
it, and they weren't They weren't
too horrible. But you know, is

1666
01:44:10.439 --> 01:44:14.760
there is there any way to test
it yourself before you send it over or

1667
01:44:14.760 --> 01:44:16.720
I mean, are there ways?
Not? Really, because it's subjective,

1668
01:44:17.000 --> 01:44:20.680
because you're you're you're giving it to
a lab that that's got some dude in

1669
01:44:20.760 --> 01:44:25.359
there that's getting you know, eight
bucks an hour to sit there, run

1670
01:44:25.359 --> 01:44:29.760
it through a machine and and watch
it and to say oh, oh yeah,

1671
01:44:29.800 --> 01:44:32.800
it's the levels or the you know, there's there's really not a hundred

1672
01:44:32.840 --> 01:44:38.279
percent way to say, you know, yeah, this is definitely gonna pass,

1673
01:44:38.359 --> 01:44:42.560
you see, because I did it
myself. But you you certainly can,

1674
01:44:42.760 --> 01:44:45.239
You certainly can look out for things
like and I can tell you firsthand,

1675
01:44:45.279 --> 01:44:48.800
you know, if your shot is
ridiculously out of focus, it's probably

1676
01:44:48.840 --> 01:44:51.119
gonna get flag. If you have
a C stand in the shot, it's

1677
01:44:51.119 --> 01:44:54.840
gonna get flag. If you're if
you're not, if you're One of the

1678
01:44:54.840 --> 01:44:59.239
most common things as the levels are
falling out of the legal you know,

1679
01:44:59.520 --> 01:45:03.199
so the legal zone for levels,
but oftentimes that can be fixed with filters

1680
01:45:03.239 --> 01:45:06.159
and final cut or Adobe Premier and
stuff like. You can add a filter

1681
01:45:06.239 --> 01:45:11.600
to that and you can get the
levels back into what they call it a

1682
01:45:11.680 --> 01:45:16.880
legal illegalized area. And titles are
out of title safe zones, that sort

1683
01:45:16.920 --> 01:45:19.279
of thing you said. There are
some There are things, if you know

1684
01:45:19.319 --> 01:45:23.239
a lot about post production that you
can look out for, like I can

1685
01:45:23.239 --> 01:45:26.920
look at a movie and tell you
if it will pass QC. Usually from

1686
01:45:27.000 --> 01:45:30.399
visually audio not as much because you
have to really they really have to listen

1687
01:45:30.439 --> 01:45:34.760
to it and really QC like the
M and E tracks and make sure like

1688
01:45:35.159 --> 01:45:40.359
there's footsteps filled in and although there's
fully where it needs to be. That

1689
01:45:40.439 --> 01:45:45.680
sort of thing, there are different
different labs or you know. Sometimes you

1690
01:45:45.720 --> 01:45:48.960
know, I've I've had stuff that
they've told me to fix and I went

1691
01:45:49.000 --> 01:45:51.319
back and said, yeah, I
fixed it, no problem, and I

1692
01:45:51.359 --> 01:45:56.199
didn't fix it. I was just
just bullshitting them, and then they passed

1693
01:45:56.239 --> 01:45:59.960
it, you know, and it
happens. It happened like two a few

1694
01:46:00.000 --> 01:46:00.920
science too, because I'm like,
yeah, oh yeah I fixed that,

1695
01:46:01.000 --> 01:46:03.079
Yeah, yeah, all that pixel
that you said, Yeah, I totally

1696
01:46:03.159 --> 01:46:05.159
fixed it. And then they come
back and they go okay, great and

1697
01:46:05.159 --> 01:46:08.319
then they get then they pass.
So that's why I'm saying it's a very

1698
01:46:08.359 --> 01:46:11.600
subjective process. You can have it
go, you can have it past one

1699
01:46:11.720 --> 01:46:14.960
QC house in the United States,
and then you can give it to a

1700
01:46:15.000 --> 01:46:17.880
foreign place that that q sees it
and you'll get a whole the list of

1701
01:46:17.880 --> 01:46:23.640
problems that they did. Pay So
it's it's a really weird, a very

1702
01:46:23.680 --> 01:46:27.880
frustrating process for a filmmaker to to
to get past that stage. But but

1703
01:46:27.960 --> 01:46:30.319
I will say it is one of
the big hang ups for people, especially

1704
01:46:30.319 --> 01:46:33.039
on a low budget movies, because
you don't really a lot of times have

1705
01:46:33.119 --> 01:46:36.000
the money to get it fixed.
So that's one thing you really need to

1706
01:46:36.000 --> 01:46:42.560
be careful with and watch out for. Okay, so can you walk us

1707
01:46:42.560 --> 01:46:45.880
through the process Okay, you know, just editing the film and everything,

1708
01:46:45.000 --> 01:46:50.000
Like what what the processes? You
know? Are you typically editing as they're

1709
01:46:50.000 --> 01:46:55.640
shooting or can you give me just
an idea of how that all you know

1710
01:46:55.680 --> 01:47:00.079
comes together? Quick idea? But
I mean typically typically no, I'm not

1711
01:47:00.399 --> 01:47:04.159
not really editing as they're shooting.
It depends. I mean, if I'm

1712
01:47:04.479 --> 01:47:08.319
full moon. Sometimes we used to
do that and we're making public Master ten

1713
01:47:08.439 --> 01:47:10.800
and stuff like that. Sometimes I
would be editing as they're shooting. They

1714
01:47:10.800 --> 01:47:14.479
would give me. That was just
the editor they would Charlie Van would give

1715
01:47:14.520 --> 01:47:17.079
me the material and like a daily
basis, I'd be cutting as we're going

1716
01:47:17.159 --> 01:47:19.880
and that sort of thing. Some
you know, so that that can certainly

1717
01:47:19.920 --> 01:47:25.680
happen. But sometimes if it's your
own picture, you're not really thinking about

1718
01:47:25.680 --> 01:47:28.560
that right now. You're probably just
more concerned about getting a shot. So

1719
01:47:28.640 --> 01:47:30.359
usually what happens is after you get
it all shot, then you then you

1720
01:47:30.920 --> 01:47:33.720
then you meet you either, if
you're not editing it yourself, you'll meet

1721
01:47:33.720 --> 01:47:42.279
with an editor and excuse me,
you'll you'll go over with it. You'll

1722
01:47:42.319 --> 01:47:45.119
go over with the editor. You
know kind of what's going on. The

1723
01:47:45.239 --> 01:47:47.479
editor will you know, of course, give the script usually what's called a

1724
01:47:47.520 --> 01:47:51.800
line a line script that they had
if you had a script supervisor on set,

1725
01:47:51.800 --> 01:47:55.920
and they'll get an idea of what
the coverage is like and what takes

1726
01:47:55.920 --> 01:47:58.119
you like, that sort of thing, if if you even had one.

1727
01:47:58.159 --> 01:48:00.000
A lot of times a little budgets, they don't even have a script supervisor.

1728
01:48:01.000 --> 01:48:03.039
And then and then it's pretty much
up to the editor. At that

1729
01:48:03.079 --> 01:48:05.800
point, you have a conversation a
couple conversations with a director and you stay

1730
01:48:05.840 --> 01:48:11.000
and start cutting away, and then
you just goes through a process of of

1731
01:48:11.600 --> 01:48:17.399
you know, an assembly and a
director's cut and producer's cut oftentimes until you

1732
01:48:17.600 --> 01:48:19.840
until you get it locked. And
then once you get it locked, and

1733
01:48:19.840 --> 01:48:24.680
then you you head onto sound from
that point forward. But the editing process,

1734
01:48:24.760 --> 01:48:27.399
though, one thing I will tell
you, and this is another area

1735
01:48:27.439 --> 01:48:31.319
that you really should spend the money
in is Look, if you're a great

1736
01:48:31.399 --> 01:48:35.359
editor yourself, fine, but if
you're if you're just you know, a

1737
01:48:35.359 --> 01:48:39.880
guy that cut a few commercials together, a few car commercials together, a

1738
01:48:39.920 --> 01:48:44.399
Dorito's commercial, it's not a feature
film editor. You really got to look

1739
01:48:44.399 --> 01:48:48.039
at who you're hiring as an editor, because editing is so important to the

1740
01:48:48.039 --> 01:48:54.199
process. And I've I've edited so
many feature films, man, I mean

1741
01:48:55.399 --> 01:48:58.279
over, I think I'm like a
hundred and something now. Feature films,

1742
01:48:58.520 --> 01:49:00.760
now, I mean a lot of
them are this blah, but I mean

1743
01:49:00.800 --> 01:49:04.439
the the one I mean, I
mean, I edited for Sci Fi Channel

1744
01:49:05.000 --> 01:49:14.880
for people, and it's just such
important right out of the editor h experience.

1745
01:49:15.840 --> 01:49:21.199
And I'm losing you a little bit. I can't really hear you.

1746
01:49:21.399 --> 01:49:26.039
You're you're dropping out a little bit. Are you going through a tunnel?

1747
01:49:26.159 --> 01:49:33.079
Yeah? Yeah, So what I
was saying on an experienced editor, because

1748
01:49:33.199 --> 01:49:36.000
in the long run, they'll really
save you. It's just have a really

1749
01:49:36.039 --> 01:49:41.000
good DP or anything else, because
a really good editor can make or break

1750
01:49:41.000 --> 01:49:45.720
your movie. They can I can
cut a scene eighteen different ways and get

1751
01:49:45.760 --> 01:49:48.920
completely different meanings every time in the
scene. But but you know, so,

1752
01:49:48.920 --> 01:49:51.680
so that's what I'm saying. I
mean, an editor is just important.

1753
01:49:51.720 --> 01:49:57.680
It's not just a matter of slinging
together a bunch of coverage. We'll

1754
01:49:57.720 --> 01:50:03.600
be right back after a word from
our sponsor, and now back to the

1755
01:50:03.640 --> 01:50:09.880
show that's not editing. Editing is
a craft like anything else, just like

1756
01:50:10.600 --> 01:50:15.520
you know, cinematography, just like
production design. And it's it's the end

1757
01:50:15.520 --> 01:50:18.920
part of your film here, you
know. So it's it's everything. It's

1758
01:50:18.960 --> 01:50:24.520
timing, it's it's it's a performance. It's whether or not to show the

1759
01:50:24.560 --> 01:50:27.760
knife yet or to show it at
the end. If I cut a scene

1760
01:50:27.960 --> 01:50:30.079
and I show you the knife too
early, the scare is gone. The

1761
01:50:30.159 --> 01:50:33.680
scare might be gone. But if
I show it at the end, you

1762
01:50:33.720 --> 01:50:38.600
know, the scene could play a
completely different way. So that's an enormous

1763
01:50:38.600 --> 01:50:41.920
amount of power to have over a
movie as an editor. So that's why

1764
01:50:42.079 --> 01:50:44.039
that's why I'm just really, you
know, saying like, hey, you

1765
01:50:44.079 --> 01:50:46.479
know, it is an important part
of the process, and and really get

1766
01:50:46.520 --> 01:50:50.560
somebody that knows how to cut feature
films together, and and uh uh,

1767
01:50:50.680 --> 01:50:54.840
if it's yourself, great, But
if it's just somebody with no experience,

1768
01:50:54.880 --> 01:50:58.399
you know, I would really advise
against it. So fay way, you

1769
01:50:58.600 --> 01:51:00.479
edit, after you get that done, and you a new, beautiful edited

1770
01:51:00.640 --> 01:51:03.479
thing together. And you can move
on. Then you lock the picture,

1771
01:51:03.840 --> 01:51:09.399
which means no further changes to the
to the to the picture. Uh,

1772
01:51:09.439 --> 01:51:13.680
and then that can be given at
that point over to the sound department,

1773
01:51:13.720 --> 01:51:17.760
and the sound starts and the and
that's also when the composer usually starts,

1774
01:51:17.840 --> 01:51:21.000
and CGI and everything else starts at
that point, titling and all that.

1775
01:51:21.600 --> 01:51:26.239
Right, So, are you able
to have like composers for these I mean,

1776
01:51:26.359 --> 01:51:28.840
is that some point that's within the
budget? Yeah? Absolutely, Well,

1777
01:51:28.880 --> 01:51:31.279
my wife's a composer, so I'm
lucky. Okay, that's right.

1778
01:51:31.319 --> 01:51:34.600
I forgot about it. She's she's
she plays for guitar for Blueman Group,

1779
01:51:34.640 --> 01:51:39.920
and she's also a composer, a
film composer. She she scored a lot

1780
01:51:39.960 --> 01:51:43.880
of my my films and everything too. So it's convenient. Yeah, definitely,

1781
01:51:44.640 --> 01:51:49.079
definitely a convenient relationship. Right,
So, yes, composed And let

1782
01:51:49.079 --> 01:51:53.199
me let me tell you here too, because this is also extremely important.

1783
01:51:54.520 --> 01:51:57.520
One of the one of the things
that's very common that seems to be like

1784
01:51:58.239 --> 01:52:05.159
a plague these days, because that's
what any of you there, I can't

1785
01:52:05.199 --> 01:52:13.000
hear you. Let me trailer call
them back. Hey, we're back.

1786
01:52:13.720 --> 01:52:15.640
I just keep going, don't want
me to call you back, is it?

1787
01:52:15.640 --> 01:52:17.920
Okay, he's the connection. Okay, yeah, the connections. Good.

1788
01:52:18.039 --> 01:52:20.960
You were you were saying. One
of the plagues. Okay, maybe

1789
01:52:20.960 --> 01:52:25.600
play is not a good word,
but one of the one of the real

1790
01:52:26.279 --> 01:52:32.840
mistakes. I think that that I
see some filmmakers doing these days is the

1791
01:52:33.119 --> 01:52:41.439
the the use of music libraries in
place of an original film score. Now

1792
01:52:41.439 --> 01:52:44.520
I'm talking. I'm not talking about
trailers and and I mean, look,

1793
01:52:44.560 --> 01:52:47.000
I mean, if you trailers or
documentaries or whatever and you need to find

1794
01:52:47.039 --> 01:52:49.439
you need to pull a piece out
or a song out or whatever. Okay,

1795
01:52:49.479 --> 01:52:54.079
fine, because they you know,
libraries can have their uses for for

1796
01:52:54.159 --> 01:53:00.479
certain for certain things, for certain
you know, corporate videos or or commercials,

1797
01:53:00.520 --> 01:53:02.079
and you know, you know that
that that that's great. But this

1798
01:53:02.159 --> 01:53:06.039
is of course my personal opinion on
the matter. But for me, as

1799
01:53:06.079 --> 01:53:11.840
a filmmaker like I would never pull
out music from a library, absolutely not.

1800
01:53:12.359 --> 01:53:15.960
And there's a reason for that.
I mean, amusing a film is

1801
01:53:15.000 --> 01:53:17.960
an original piece of work, you
know. I mean, it's like a

1802
01:53:17.960 --> 01:53:20.319
paint thing, you know. I
mean, you're you're you want to have

1803
01:53:20.399 --> 01:53:25.880
an original composer come in and do
an original score to your film, because

1804
01:53:26.479 --> 01:53:29.880
your film is unique. It flows
a certain way, it's edited a certain

1805
01:53:29.920 --> 01:53:32.880
way, it's it's it has a
certain esthetic, it has a certain sound

1806
01:53:32.960 --> 01:53:38.600
to it, it has certain instrumentation
that you want to enhance the performance of

1807
01:53:38.600 --> 01:53:41.680
the characters. You're not going to
get that from a library. You know

1808
01:53:41.680 --> 01:53:44.000
what you're going to get from a
library. You're going to get the same

1809
01:53:44.119 --> 01:53:47.680
queue that nineteen thousand other people just
used in a car commercial and a feature

1810
01:53:47.680 --> 01:53:51.960
film and something else that people just
are using over and over again. So

1811
01:53:53.600 --> 01:53:59.199
it's really to your advantage as a
filmmaker to hire a composer on your feature

1812
01:53:59.199 --> 01:54:01.520
film and get an original score.
The audience will love you for it.

1813
01:54:01.560 --> 01:54:05.159
You'll love yourself for it. And
there are lots and it's not look,

1814
01:54:05.159 --> 01:54:10.399
it's not expensive. Lots of composers
out there that are hungry looking for work,

1815
01:54:10.640 --> 01:54:13.600
that will even do it, that'll
even do it for experience, just

1816
01:54:13.640 --> 01:54:15.760
to to to to to work on
it sometimes, you know, I mean,

1817
01:54:15.800 --> 01:54:18.239
just you just need to find those
people and reach out to those people

1818
01:54:18.279 --> 01:54:21.600
to do an original score to your
movie. It is absolutely worth it.

1819
01:54:21.640 --> 01:54:25.880
And do not cheap out on the
music, because I mean, even George

1820
01:54:25.960 --> 01:54:30.439
Lucas will tell you that sound is
fifty percent of the movie. So you

1821
01:54:30.479 --> 01:54:32.439
know, and it's true because you
know, we see with our eyes and

1822
01:54:32.479 --> 01:54:34.520
we smell with our nose, but
when we hear with our ears. But

1823
01:54:34.960 --> 01:54:39.479
since we're not in smell a vision, you know, we're seeing and hearing.

1824
01:54:39.560 --> 01:54:43.640
So it's like kind of a fifty
fifty experience. So sound and sound

1825
01:54:43.680 --> 01:54:46.840
and music and all that stuff is
such an important part to your film.

1826
01:54:47.159 --> 01:54:51.279
Don't cheap out on it. Do
you use a temp track when you're editing

1827
01:54:51.359 --> 01:54:55.199
or whatever, Yeah, that's fine. Yeah, to look, if you're

1828
01:54:55.319 --> 01:55:00.840
editing and you're editing and you're and
you're using al Alan Sevestree temp track because

1829
01:55:00.840 --> 01:55:03.039
you just want to give the composer
an idea or something, Yeah, that's

1830
01:55:03.079 --> 01:55:05.119
fine. But I'm just saying at
the end of the day, you know

1831
01:55:05.199 --> 01:55:11.079
you have to uh certainly a temp
temp tracking is very common. Yeah.

1832
01:55:11.199 --> 01:55:14.880
You you people are just putting in
music just to get an idea, you

1833
01:55:14.880 --> 01:55:18.800
know when they're cutting, but the
end result is something completely different. Uh.

1834
01:55:18.800 --> 01:55:23.039
So that's that's that's that's actously a
good way to to to to do

1835
01:55:23.079 --> 01:55:26.119
it. But when you I have
a whole chapter in the book about the

1836
01:55:26.199 --> 01:55:30.359
music of horror films, and I
interview I interview some amazing composers you know

1837
01:55:30.399 --> 01:55:32.039
in there, I mean John,
John Ahman, John Debney, you know,

1838
01:55:32.079 --> 01:55:38.159
I need to you know, some
great folks and they I really get

1839
01:55:38.199 --> 01:55:41.760
into it with them about that stuff. And I think it's very insightful for

1840
01:55:41.800 --> 01:55:45.119
you to for for the readers to
read that chapter on music and sound.

1841
01:55:45.159 --> 01:55:47.279
It's really it's really a good one. It's actually one of my Actually I

1842
01:55:47.279 --> 01:55:49.920
think it is my favorite chapter in
the book. It's very it's actually quite

1843
01:55:49.920 --> 01:55:55.399
extensive to the interviews. But but
you know, but music though too,

1844
01:55:55.439 --> 01:55:58.600
I mean, you know, it's
uh, there are there are just so

1845
01:55:58.720 --> 01:56:04.079
many elements to it, uh between
instrumentation and and uh and the overall feel

1846
01:56:04.119 --> 01:56:10.000
of scenes and everything. Music really
helps the audience. It really helps direct

1847
01:56:10.000 --> 01:56:13.079
the audience to the emotions that that
they want to feel in a scene.

1848
01:56:13.119 --> 01:56:15.840
And and for you to just like
pull something out of your hat, you

1849
01:56:15.880 --> 01:56:18.039
know, it's it's it's it's a
shame. It's too bad, you know,

1850
01:56:18.079 --> 01:56:20.880
And I think that it can be
you can really improve yourself if you

1851
01:56:21.239 --> 01:56:26.960
if you hire a composer. So
so did they come in during as the

1852
01:56:27.399 --> 01:56:30.640
you know, you lock the picture, it goes over to sound posts.

1853
01:56:30.640 --> 01:56:35.279
They're doing the the you know fully, and the designing and everything. Does

1854
01:56:35.319 --> 01:56:39.199
the soundtrack come in at the very
you know, after all that happens,

1855
01:56:39.279 --> 01:56:41.319
or is that kind of going on
at the same time. Well, well,

1856
01:56:41.399 --> 01:56:45.800
sometimes sometimes you can have Sometimes you
can get depending on your relationship with

1857
01:56:45.840 --> 01:56:50.479
the composer. Sometimes you can get
if you're married to the compomer. But

1858
01:56:50.520 --> 01:56:55.760
if you sometimes if you're if you're
like before you even like unreal eval like

1859
01:56:55.840 --> 01:57:00.159
I had, I had the music
music ideas before we even start it.

1860
01:57:00.239 --> 01:57:00.960
I am you know, like I
said, hey, you know, I

1861
01:57:01.000 --> 01:57:03.520
want this kind of style, and
it was able to start kind of getting

1862
01:57:03.560 --> 01:57:06.479
going on the music early on,
you before we even shot the film.

1863
01:57:06.520 --> 01:57:09.800
So I mean, I think sometimes
you can if you have that kind of

1864
01:57:09.800 --> 01:57:12.399
a relationship with a composer, you
can say, hey, I'm kind of

1865
01:57:12.399 --> 01:57:14.079
thinking I want to do this kind
of thing. You know, maybe you

1866
01:57:14.079 --> 01:57:17.000
start coming up with some ideas and
then they can start doing that early on.

1867
01:57:17.359 --> 01:57:21.600
But but what normally happens is this, you you you shoot the movie,

1868
01:57:21.640 --> 01:57:25.640
you cut the movie, you you
lock the movie, and then and

1869
01:57:25.680 --> 01:57:30.319
then it goes to the sound stage. The sound the sound uh, not

1870
01:57:30.359 --> 01:57:33.319
an actual sound stage. I mean
this sound the sound editing process, so

1871
01:57:33.439 --> 01:57:40.640
the music process, stage of production, and what the director, what the

1872
01:57:40.640 --> 01:57:44.479
director should be doing at this at
this point after after the picture is locked,

1873
01:57:44.520 --> 01:57:48.199
is you need to you need to
sit with usually three different kinds of

1874
01:57:48.239 --> 01:57:55.560
people, usually your sound designer,
your composer, and your your CGI artist

1875
01:57:55.640 --> 01:57:58.760
if you have one, which a
lot of times you don't, but sometimes

1876
01:57:58.760 --> 01:58:00.239
you do, and you'll need to
sit with it and talk about the special

1877
01:58:00.239 --> 01:58:04.640
effects shots that you need to do. But more commonly, you're probably on

1878
01:58:04.680 --> 01:58:08.039
low budget. It's probably going to
be just your sound and your music.

1879
01:58:08.319 --> 01:58:10.479
So what you're gonna do is you're
gonna sit with you You're gonna hire a

1880
01:58:10.479 --> 01:58:15.760
sound a sound designer and a sound
editor, and they're gonna you're gonna you're

1881
01:58:15.800 --> 01:58:17.439
gonna do what's called spotting. You're
gonna spot with these guys. You're gonna

1882
01:58:17.439 --> 01:58:20.520
you're gonna watch the film from beginning
to end, and you're gonna give them

1883
01:58:20.520 --> 01:58:25.640
notes. You're gonna say this scene, I would like to hear metallic sounds

1884
01:58:25.680 --> 01:58:29.079
coming from there, and I want
more of a Bobcat growl on the monster,

1885
01:58:29.279 --> 01:58:31.680
and I want this and blah blah
blah blah, and they'll just make

1886
01:58:31.720 --> 01:58:35.000
notes as as you're going along,
and you'll and it'll it. Believe me,

1887
01:58:35.039 --> 01:58:39.439
they'll thank you for it because it
helps them, saves them time,

1888
01:58:39.560 --> 01:58:43.479
saves you time. Everybody's on the
same page of what kind of sound design

1889
01:58:43.479 --> 01:58:46.479
you're looking for. Then you do
a spotting session with your composer, and

1890
01:58:46.680 --> 01:58:49.960
it's the same sort of process,
but you're talking more in terms of music.

1891
01:58:50.479 --> 01:58:55.039
You're saying, I'm I'm thinking more
like you know, you know.

1892
01:58:56.119 --> 01:59:00.319
Depending on how detailed they get with
you and what your understanding is of music

1893
01:59:00.359 --> 01:59:02.520
and how it works, the conversations
can be very detailed, and they can

1894
01:59:02.520 --> 01:59:06.199
be very generic. They can be
very much like, well, I don't

1895
01:59:06.199 --> 01:59:09.119
know, I think there should be
some music here, but I'm not really

1896
01:59:09.119 --> 01:59:11.640
sure what. And then the composer
will say, okay, cool, I'll

1897
01:59:11.640 --> 01:59:14.439
do something there. But I have
a I have a little bit of a

1898
01:59:14.520 --> 01:59:16.279
music background. So when I talked
to my wife and about composing, we

1899
01:59:16.680 --> 01:59:19.640
have like a nice conversation about like, I don't know about you know,

1900
01:59:19.680 --> 01:59:24.000
the horns, and maybe the D
minor is better, or maybe some piano

1901
01:59:24.079 --> 01:59:27.159
work here, that sort of thing. So it's a little bit more detailed,

1902
01:59:28.680 --> 01:59:30.119
but I think in general, when
you're talking to a composer, it's

1903
01:59:30.199 --> 01:59:35.399
better to give them, give them
the emotion that you're going for in the

1904
01:59:35.399 --> 01:59:39.880
scene, like this scene is sad, this scene is scary, this scene

1905
01:59:39.880 --> 01:59:43.199
means, this scene is a really
big moment, and I don't want to

1906
01:59:43.199 --> 01:59:45.279
hear any music at all until we
see the knife at the end. You

1907
01:59:45.279 --> 01:59:49.279
know, that kind of direction for
your cons And and again the composer will

1908
01:59:49.319 --> 01:59:53.960
thank you for this, and they
have a clear idea, of clear direction

1909
01:59:53.960 --> 01:59:56.760
of where they're going with that.
And then the same thing happens with the

1910
01:59:56.800 --> 02:00:00.359
CGI you do. The same thing
will be right after a word from our

1911
02:00:00.399 --> 02:00:10.119
sponsor. And now back to the
show. I sit with them, and

1912
02:00:10.119 --> 02:00:12.319
you spot it and you tell them
what kind of special effects you want.

1913
02:00:12.399 --> 02:00:14.720
You know, I wanted to glow, and I want the guy's face to

1914
02:00:14.800 --> 02:00:16.680
morph into a lizard or whatever it
is, and I want it to be

1915
02:00:16.720 --> 02:00:20.039
green and that sort of thing,
and uh and that, and that's really

1916
02:00:20.159 --> 02:00:24.680
kind of in the in a in
a really quick nutshell, the entire part

1917
02:00:24.720 --> 02:00:28.920
four of my book, And that's
kind of what you're what you got to

1918
02:00:28.920 --> 02:00:31.680
do there at that stage, right, And I got there. Any typical

1919
02:00:31.760 --> 02:00:35.239
mistakes that you see, like if
people want CGI in a scene, are

1920
02:00:35.279 --> 02:00:40.039
there any things they need to make
sure they have for you to to do

1921
02:00:40.079 --> 02:00:44.600
that? Absolutely, that's the that's
the last chapter. Actually it's pit falls

1922
02:00:44.600 --> 02:00:47.279
of post production. There are many. But but to answer that specifically,

1923
02:00:48.359 --> 02:00:54.199
yes, Uh. The oftentimes,
like I did a lot of movies that

1924
02:00:54.239 --> 02:00:59.560
I that I had come in and
had one of their biggest problems is shooting

1925
02:00:59.560 --> 02:01:01.560
the wrong plates. You know,
like they think that, oh, well,

1926
02:01:01.600 --> 02:01:05.079
we'll just remove the background and then
we'll just throw some green some green

1927
02:01:05.079 --> 02:01:08.800
ship behind him and then we'll take
it out and after effects and it'll be

1928
02:01:08.840 --> 02:01:11.520
great. And then they come in
and then I mean, I've had that

1929
02:01:11.520 --> 02:01:13.520
stuff come in to me and it's
like, yeah, just take out his

1930
02:01:13.680 --> 02:01:15.479
take out the background. I'm like, guys, you didn't light the freaking

1931
02:01:15.520 --> 02:01:19.399
green screen right it? Look you
just put up you just like put some

1932
02:01:19.439 --> 02:01:25.079
green cloth behind the guy. You
got him too close to it, he's

1933
02:01:25.119 --> 02:01:28.600
casting a shadow on it. How
am I supposed to pull him out of

1934
02:01:28.600 --> 02:01:30.119
that background and make it look believable? You know what I mean? Like

1935
02:01:30.159 --> 02:01:33.920
that sort of stuff that happens all
the freaking time, or you know,

1936
02:01:33.960 --> 02:01:38.199
somebody will be in front of a
green screen but they're wearing like a green

1937
02:01:38.319 --> 02:01:42.239
shirt. You know, it's like
shot this right, you know, and

1938
02:01:42.560 --> 02:01:45.399
you know it happens, man,
I mean and uh, you know,

1939
02:01:45.560 --> 02:01:47.359
just little things like that. You
know, there there's and there's book.

1940
02:01:47.359 --> 02:01:50.239
You know, there's plenty of books
out there on green screen too, if

1941
02:01:50.239 --> 02:01:54.199
you're if you're doing green screen work. But that's one of the big things

1942
02:01:54.239 --> 02:01:57.159
I see coming in as people that
are want to do green screen work on

1943
02:01:57.199 --> 02:02:00.600
the low budget level, but they
don't shoot it right. They shoot it

1944
02:02:00.680 --> 02:02:03.680
very They think just because it's green, that's good enough, and it's not.

1945
02:02:03.800 --> 02:02:09.199
Believe me, there is there is
a very special way to do that

1946
02:02:09.239 --> 02:02:12.319
to get it looking good, and
you know, it can be a million

1947
02:02:12.439 --> 02:02:15.279
other things too. Bad sound is
also a very common thing. You know,

1948
02:02:15.399 --> 02:02:18.039
just you just had bad sound on
set and nobody seemed to notice,

1949
02:02:18.079 --> 02:02:24.640
and now I've been problem. Or
if there's voice over, make sure you

1950
02:02:24.720 --> 02:02:28.600
get it recorded on set if you
can, because the last thing you want

1951
02:02:28.600 --> 02:02:31.479
to do is to be having to
bring back actors and especially if they have

1952
02:02:31.520 --> 02:02:36.600
to do a dr and replace their
dialogue over bad over badly recorded dialogue.

1953
02:02:38.039 --> 02:02:41.279
It looks terrible first of all.
Most of the time, and oftentimes they

1954
02:02:41.520 --> 02:02:45.640
you lose the original meaning of the
performance. That's what I'm saying, right,

1955
02:02:45.039 --> 02:02:50.079
So, I mean I think it
was Cubrick that didn't do a DR

1956
02:02:50.159 --> 02:02:54.159
at all because he was like totally
opposed against it. At least I think

1957
02:02:54.159 --> 02:02:57.640
that's what I heard from Full Metal
Jacket or something like that they wouldn't do

1958
02:02:57.680 --> 02:03:00.159
a DR or something like that.
And you know, and I'm with you

1959
02:03:00.279 --> 02:03:02.640
with that. I'm it's like,
it's because it's a man, you know,

1960
02:03:02.760 --> 02:03:08.600
a r socks. It's like,
no, there's a match stick that

1961
02:03:08.640 --> 02:03:11.359
happened on the set, and when
you have to replace it in the studio,

1962
02:03:11.479 --> 02:03:14.399
it's just not it's not the same. It means not the same.

1963
02:03:14.560 --> 02:03:19.039
Yeah, So you get it,
I can so yeah. So I mean

1964
02:03:19.039 --> 02:03:23.560
there's there's other things. You know, Slating is a big issue out of

1965
02:03:23.560 --> 02:03:27.439
times for you know, people that
just horrible, horrible people that just don't

1966
02:03:27.680 --> 02:03:30.000
slate. You know, I was
like, what's wrong with you? Slating

1967
02:03:30.079 --> 02:03:34.079
is is just inexcusable. You really
need to do a good slate for the

1968
02:03:34.199 --> 02:03:40.159
editor and for your own sanity.
And there are apps on the iPad and

1969
02:03:40.199 --> 02:03:43.560
the iPhone. I can't reme.
I mentioned in my book, but I

1970
02:03:43.600 --> 02:03:45.600
can't remember what it's called the top
of my head. I think it's called

1971
02:03:45.600 --> 02:03:48.159
movie slate or something like that.
Just look at on the iTunes store and

1972
02:03:48.399 --> 02:03:51.399
I think it's like twenty bucks or
something, and it's it's just it's it's

1973
02:03:51.520 --> 02:03:55.560
it's amazing. You know. It's
just an I an iPad or an iPhone

1974
02:03:55.560 --> 02:03:58.079
app and you just put the iPhone
in front of the camera and you just

1975
02:03:58.079 --> 02:04:00.439
click a little button and it goes
clear like that and it slates it for

1976
02:04:00.479 --> 02:04:03.760
you. You know. So it's
a it's a good high tech way to

1977
02:04:03.800 --> 02:04:06.680
do all that stuff. You know. Now when you're when you're dealing with

1978
02:04:08.199 --> 02:04:13.800
these higher end cameras, I do
you have a high end audio track that's

1979
02:04:13.800 --> 02:04:16.840
going into the camera that you've got
or are you still just having to sink

1980
02:04:16.880 --> 02:04:21.000
all the audio? Well? What
I do, this is what what I

1981
02:04:21.039 --> 02:04:26.880
do is I make sure that my
sound people are doing two things. That

1982
02:04:27.000 --> 02:04:30.680
one one, they're running a line
into the camera. Okay, so you're

1983
02:04:30.680 --> 02:04:34.000
getting it recorded on camera, but
they're also running into a backup, a

1984
02:04:34.079 --> 02:04:40.079
high quality backup that that is usually
running into a recorder that that can record

1985
02:04:40.079 --> 02:04:43.840
it at way high quality, at
a way higher quality than the camera actually

1986
02:04:43.880 --> 02:04:46.640
can. So usually the audio sounds
better on their recorder than it does on

1987
02:04:46.680 --> 02:04:50.079
the camera. So what I do
is I actually resink. I resink the

1988
02:04:50.079 --> 02:04:54.640
films, so I I bring it
in. I use the the the audio

1989
02:04:54.680 --> 02:04:59.479
that they that they did, that
they recorded on their their their high end

1990
02:04:59.479 --> 02:05:05.840
recorder at a higher bit rate,
higher like I usually do, usual to

1991
02:05:05.840 --> 02:05:12.279
do, like ninety six k twenty
four bit recording super high quality audio right,

1992
02:05:13.239 --> 02:05:17.560
and then I rethink it with the
material that way. Now, is

1993
02:05:17.560 --> 02:05:19.840
that the most common way. No. Most people just take it right off

1994
02:05:19.880 --> 02:05:26.560
the camera, and oftentimes that's fine, so you know, you but if

1995
02:05:26.560 --> 02:05:28.800
you take it right off the camera, it's always a good idea to have

1996
02:05:28.840 --> 02:05:30.520
a backup too, you know,
because if the audios fucked up on the

1997
02:05:30.560 --> 02:05:34.319
camera. I had a movie that
came in one time, and I kid

1998
02:05:34.319 --> 02:05:38.199
you not fifty percent of the movie
they thought they had the audio on the

1999
02:05:38.199 --> 02:05:42.800
camera and it was all distorted because
somebody didn't set the level right going into

2000
02:05:42.840 --> 02:05:46.079
the camera. So he was monitoring
he was monitoring it okay through his mixer,

2001
02:05:46.439 --> 02:05:50.079
but the output from his mixer going
into the camera the camera was set

2002
02:05:50.119 --> 02:05:54.439
at a different level, so it
was distorted. Everything that it was being

2003
02:05:54.479 --> 02:05:58.760
recorded on the camera was restorted,
and there was no backup, so everything

2004
02:05:58.840 --> 02:06:01.359
that came in it was I don't
like that the whole time, and they

2005
02:06:01.439 --> 02:06:05.920
were, they were totally devastated,
totally pissed, fired the fucking sound guy,

2006
02:06:06.279 --> 02:06:10.840
and uh and it was we had
they had the adr like fifty percent

2007
02:06:10.840 --> 02:06:14.800
of the movie and it looks terrible. It's it's dreadful. And because you

2008
02:06:14.800 --> 02:06:18.079
couldn't even hear what the guy said
to begin with, because you couldn't even

2009
02:06:18.079 --> 02:06:20.840
tell what he was saying, you
had to look at his lips, you

2010
02:06:20.840 --> 02:06:24.720
know, versus like normally a dr
at least if it's bad audio, you

2011
02:06:24.720 --> 02:06:28.079
can kind of hear what they said
to match it. So so yeah,

2012
02:06:28.079 --> 02:06:30.840
I mean that's a big problem.
Sound is a big problem at posts.

2013
02:06:30.880 --> 02:06:34.840
So they pay a lot of attention
to that, and you won't be sorry.

2014
02:06:35.000 --> 02:06:39.479
Do you typically have a love on
every actor and the boom or how

2015
02:06:39.560 --> 02:06:45.800
is that? Like? Usually one
of the most difficult sound sound shows that

2016
02:06:45.840 --> 02:06:48.800
I directed was real evil, And
the reason for that is, like they're

2017
02:06:49.119 --> 02:06:54.640
swinging around three sixty running down halls. It wasn't it was. It was

2018
02:06:54.680 --> 02:07:00.520
actually one of the most difficult technically
to shoot, and a lot of that

2019
02:07:00.520 --> 02:07:02.039
has to do with the camera,
the sound, the audio. And I

2020
02:07:02.079 --> 02:07:08.119
was hiding in drawers and final balls
and laying on ground the ground, I

2021
02:07:08.159 --> 02:07:11.920
mean, I was hiding all over
the place. But sound on that was

2022
02:07:12.000 --> 02:07:14.840
very difficult. And I knew it
because I have the post experience. So

2023
02:07:14.880 --> 02:07:16.720
I told the producers and so I
said, hey, man, you got

2024
02:07:16.720 --> 02:07:18.920
to hire this sound guy, this
one sound guy I've used before. And

2025
02:07:18.960 --> 02:07:21.359
I said, you know, he's
got the gear. We need to lab

2026
02:07:21.479 --> 02:07:27.479
all these actors. You need to
run the audio into this mixer and all

2027
02:07:27.479 --> 02:07:30.920
this stuff. Otherwise we're gonna have
a We're gonna have a a cluster fucking

2028
02:07:30.960 --> 02:07:33.600
post sound wise. Luckily they listened
to me, and we so, yeah,

2029
02:07:33.680 --> 02:07:36.640
really evil when you know, we
everybody has got a lab on.

2030
02:07:38.039 --> 02:07:42.119
They're running around the sound guys ducking
around in rooms and whatnot, and uh

2031
02:07:42.159 --> 02:07:45.600
and that's kind of how that was
made, you know. But usually it's

2032
02:07:45.680 --> 02:07:48.239
usually it's just a few labs and
a boom, you know, and it's

2033
02:07:48.439 --> 02:07:51.600
and that's that's plenty for what you're
doing. But you know, when you're

2034
02:07:51.680 --> 02:07:56.000
found footage is a little a little
harder to make because you're because of the

2035
02:07:56.479 --> 02:07:59.479
you're not shooting in just one direction, and then you can move the cast

2036
02:07:59.520 --> 02:08:01.520
and crew video village all the time. You know, you're swinging around three

2037
02:08:01.640 --> 02:08:05.560
sixty you know, seeing everything.
And it was also a lighting challenge too,

2038
02:08:07.920 --> 02:08:13.239
So lab labs is always a good
idea, and and that do you

2039
02:08:13.279 --> 02:08:15.279
have to light the whole thing,
like, I mean, do you light

2040
02:08:15.319 --> 02:08:20.239
everything and just like start shooting or
do you actually light individual stuff, individual

2041
02:08:20.279 --> 02:08:24.920
shots. Well, since we were
we were shooting in a practical location,

2042
02:08:24.199 --> 02:08:30.399
an actually abandoned hospital, we couldn't
light from above. You now, wreck

2043
02:08:30.840 --> 02:08:35.319
the movie wreck that that whole house, that whole building that they're in that

2044
02:08:35.439 --> 02:08:39.199
was a sound stage. That thing
they that's like a two stories down stage

2045
02:08:39.199 --> 02:08:43.920
that they lit from above so they
could swing around no problem because they had

2046
02:08:43.000 --> 02:08:46.640
lights already rigged. Now in our
case, we're shooting in practical locations,

2047
02:08:46.680 --> 02:08:50.359
so we had to hide the lights
a lot of times. And then there

2048
02:08:50.399 --> 02:08:52.960
was some story element, like there
was this film crew shooting, so we

2049
02:08:54.079 --> 02:08:56.279
lay left the lights around and saw
and stop forth. And that was one

2050
02:08:56.279 --> 02:09:01.079
of our sort of cheap ways to
try to be lights in the shot and

2051
02:09:01.079 --> 02:09:03.880
I sort of have some sort of
meaning while they're there, and and but

2052
02:09:05.000 --> 02:09:07.760
you know, for work. But
now we have to pre live the scene

2053
02:09:07.800 --> 02:09:11.520
so we can say three sixty as
much as we wanted. And that's how

2054
02:09:11.760 --> 02:09:16.119
most of that movie was shot.
But it was it was a difficult shoot

2055
02:09:16.479 --> 02:09:20.840
technically speaking, uh, for a
lot for those reasons. So okay,

2056
02:09:22.239 --> 02:09:26.560
let me ask you one more thing
about post production. And when you're talking

2057
02:09:26.560 --> 02:09:30.640
about budgeting, if we're saying,
okay, let's say, for example,

2058
02:09:30.680 --> 02:09:37.560
we're trying to shoot a fifty thousand
dollars film, how much of that is

2059
02:09:37.600 --> 02:09:41.039
going to be needed for post production? Like how much do you need to

2060
02:09:41.079 --> 02:09:46.960
have to have you know, an
editor, sound mix, and you know,

2061
02:09:46.239 --> 02:09:50.359
a score. I know it's always
different, but just to get people

2062
02:09:50.439 --> 02:09:56.560
kind of an idea a fifty thousand
dollars budget. We'll be right back after

2063
02:09:56.600 --> 02:10:05.920
a word from our sponsor and now
back to the show. Yeah, well,

2064
02:10:07.159 --> 02:10:13.199
I would say i'd say somewhere maybe
around I don't know, maybe maybe

2065
02:10:13.399 --> 02:10:20.319
maybe seventy thirty maybe seventy for your
for everything, your production actors, everything,

2066
02:10:20.359 --> 02:10:24.680
and then maybe thirty for your post
budget. You know, possibly somewhere

2067
02:10:24.720 --> 02:10:28.359
in that range, maybe thirty five, maybe even forty, depending on what

2068
02:10:28.399 --> 02:10:31.359
you're doing. But I would say
I would say somewhere around seventy thirty.

2069
02:10:31.399 --> 02:10:37.039
Maybe it could could work for you
because he's that ridiculously low or is it

2070
02:10:37.079 --> 02:10:39.359
like on Porro? I mean,
I don't even know where that falls.

2071
02:10:39.520 --> 02:10:43.840
It's not it's not. I wouldn't
say I guess this is this is gonna

2072
02:10:43.880 --> 02:10:46.119
be. Everybody is going to be
a different answer on that, because I

2073
02:10:46.159 --> 02:10:50.840
mean I have a lot of resources
for posts too, so I it just

2074
02:10:50.880 --> 02:10:52.039
depends kind of what you have,
you know, what you have to work

2075
02:10:52.079 --> 02:10:54.720
with, you know, I mean
editing software is incredibly cheap these days,

2076
02:10:56.159 --> 02:11:00.640
but it's not the software where it's
the person you're operating it. So you

2077
02:11:00.640 --> 02:11:03.520
know, you could buy final cut
for three hundred bucks, but you can't

2078
02:11:03.520 --> 02:11:05.840
really get a good editor for three
hundred bucks, you know. So,

2079
02:11:07.560 --> 02:11:11.119
but if you're already a experienced editor
and you can cut the film yourself and

2080
02:11:11.159 --> 02:11:13.640
save money, yeah, you're gonna
save five grant in your budget or whatever

2081
02:11:13.800 --> 02:11:18.479
it may be. But I would
say fifty grand. You know you're not

2082
02:11:18.600 --> 02:11:24.000
you're fifty grand budget. You know
you're not paying you know you're probably paying

2083
02:11:24.039 --> 02:11:28.479
somewhere, you know. Yeah,
I would say somewhere maybe in the maybe

2084
02:11:28.520 --> 02:11:33.880
like sixty forty to seventy thirty,
third thirty and forty being the post end

2085
02:11:33.920 --> 02:11:37.520
of things. It shouldn't post.
Shouldn't be as much as your production budget,

2086
02:11:37.560 --> 02:11:39.000
I guess, is what I'm saying. You know, your production is

2087
02:11:39.039 --> 02:11:43.000
going to be the chunk of the
money is going to go to your production.

2088
02:11:43.960 --> 02:11:46.600
All right, that's gonna do it. For today's show, we the

2089
02:11:46.880 --> 02:11:50.640
phone kind of got funky there and
we were having some technical difficulties and then

2090
02:11:50.640 --> 02:11:52.760
we talked for a little bit more, but it wasn't really part of the

2091
02:11:52.800 --> 02:11:56.399
show, so I'm just gonna end
it there. I want to thank Danny

2092
02:11:56.479 --> 02:11:58.319
Draven for coming on the show.
Don't forget to check out his book,

2093
02:11:58.479 --> 02:12:05.960
The film Maker's Book of the Dead, Absolutely the Bible of horror filmmaking that

2094
02:12:05.319 --> 02:12:09.319
you know, go to Amazon and
get it today because it's a really if

2095
02:12:09.359 --> 02:12:11.760
you want to be a horror filmmaker. There's like just tons and tons of

2096
02:12:11.760 --> 02:12:16.319
information in there. Okay, so
thanks guys. I want to thank Jason

2097
02:12:16.479 --> 02:12:20.439
so much for doing such a great
job on this episode. If you want

2098
02:12:20.479 --> 02:12:22.159
to get links to anything we spoke
about in this episode, head over to

2099
02:12:22.199 --> 02:12:26.399
the show notes at Bulletproof Screenwriting dot
tv. Forward Slash three twenty six.

2100
02:12:26.560 --> 02:12:30.720
Thank you so much for listening to
guys as always, keep on writing no

2101
02:12:30.880 --> 02:12:33.520
matter what. I'll talk to you
soon. Thanks for listening to the Bulletproof

2102
02:12:33.560 --> 02:12:37.239
Screenwriting podcast at bulletproof Screenwriting dot tv.