What is Krack Lakin Fellow Thermal Nuclear aavers. I am Dan Valley coming at
you with another twenty twenty three twenty twenty four NBA team look Ahead. We're
onto the Oklahoma City Thunder and joining me for the first ever I believe Hardwood
Knox four person podcast. We have the Uncontested Podcast almost in full. We
have Jacob Niffin, Nick Crane, and Taylor Peterson. Their Twitter handles will
be in the podcast and YouTube descriptions, as will the link to where you
can subscribe to the Uncontested Podcast, which is a really great podcast that I
just so happened to appear on momentarily before recording this. How are you guys,
let's start with let's throw it out there. How are you doing?
Jacob? I'm good man. It's a you know, we're two and a
half weeks away from preseason basketball. Opening night for the Thunder is CHET v.
Wemby in preseason hoops in Oklahoma City, so just counting down the days.
Maybe Wemby will probably be rested for that game. I feel like,
Nick, how are you doing? I'm good man. I'll tell you this.
We maybe talk about this in the pod, but it's really hard to
think about this Thunder team and cover them leading up to this season when there's
still like nineteen or twenty guys in the roster and we don't actually know who
the fifteen man is gonna be. But I guess that actually makes them more
exciting. So it's it's it's a fun time ready for the season to be
here. Like Jacob mentioned, they do confuse the living fuck out of me
when I'm putting together like the outline and trying to figure out rotations because of
how they're set up. Taylor, how are you doing doing amazing? Like
both of the guys mentioned, we're getting closer and closer to training camp.
I believe we're about two weeks out here, which is just so exciting because
Dan, I'm willing to be real honest with you, you're one of the
good few like national media members who aren't just talking about should the Laders just
go ahead and trade Dame and James Harden and Joannest Like I can only hear
those same exact arguments over and over for so long because like we're just scraping
the bottom of the barrel. So I'm really excited to get into into some
actual media days and training camps and eventually into the NBA season. I am
a little concerned that the content you've been exposed to is so bad that you
appreciate the content that we're putting out over here. But I appreciate it nonetheless.
We can we appreciate though, Like we were talking about this in your
podcast, there's narratives surrounding the Thunder, like it's probably frustrating to hear the
low bar, like they should have traded for this guy or assigned this guy.
But there are national narratives for the OKAC Thunder. I think that's a
pretty big deal. We are back as bad as they are, man Like,
at least there is narratives. This team wasn't talked about for two and
a half years much at all in the national scene. Yeah and yeah,
and I think people are still going to think that they were rebuilding when it's
like we're kind of entering a different phase here. I want to start with
last season though, and I'll throw it to we'll work our way backwards now.
From the set up on screen, Taylor, they Shay received deservedly so
most of the attention from this team and were just mentioned like wow, the
Thunder f Shay and look what he's doing. But was there like one of
the many guiding principles of this team that stood out to you that sort of
drove them just absolutely annihilating expectations last year. That's really tough because I think
specifically, if you think about a principle, it's probably the defense. And
again I don't have this actually pulled up in front of me right now,
but for the majority of the season, they were top twelve and defenserbrating in
the NBA. And that is not so much personnel and experience to your point,
Dan, like you kind of mentioned, this is a very inexperienced young
team as much as it is the culture and I think the coaching that's been
in place from Dignal and the entire coaching staff. I think the defense really
stood out to me. And it's a big reason for that because, like
you mentioned, we know Shay's extremely talented offensively, a lot of offensive talents
on this team, but then being able to regardless of you plugged in,
I mean, there were some very random rotations, very deep rotations throughout the
entirety of the season. It's not like you just had an eight man rotation
throughout the majority of the season, regardless who it was, just at next
man up mentality defensively, and that really stood out to me for a big
reason for their success this past year. Nick, are you on the same
page there? Yeah? I think the coaching was huge, Like Mark deserved
all of the votes he got for Coach of the Year and all the hype
he got for what he did. Not to discount what Okaysey did, but
it was a little bit of lightning in the bottle. I think where it
was minimal injuries. There were certainly injuries with guys that were more you know,
friend rotation to you know, seventh, eighth, ninth men. But
they really squeezed every ounce of every player on that team out. Like you
look back at the statistics and like what you saw on the floor, almost
every player on the team maybe pull out two or three guys like we're better
than expected and that's super rare for any team, I guess are So where
do you land on that, Jacob? Yeah? I think the defense,
like Taylor mentioned that they were top twelve for a long time, and that's
with playing guys like six foot six ken Rich Williams at the center position,
like they just they threw shit at the wall and it's stuck, and it
was really impressive. They were playing thirty fourth overall pick rookie Jay will Jalen
Williams out of Arkansas starting at center on a is it a four game road
trip in Miami, Philly, Chicago, Brooklyn And this guy like went toe
to toe was Joel Embiid. They're like beating the nets before it all completely
imploded. Just this run that they went on was just phenomena. But you
hit the nail on the head, Like the catalyst of it all was Shako,
just Alexander, the clutchness, the efficiency. The kids shot like eleven
free throws a game and hit ninety plus percent. That's like a ten percentage
point jump from his career free throw percentage rate. You when you put all
that stuff together, like Nick said, you kind of got lightning in a
bottle. But you also look at this team, how young they are,
how many guys that you just look at, whether it be Josh or Shay
or Jade ub Chet coming in. Dan's favorite flavorite player on Planet Arthus Monjay,
Like, the capacity for growth is so large. It feels like we're
just hitting the tip of the Iceberg. So it's really exciting. We've got
to make Jan Gang shirts and and send Dan one called him. You called
him ooze on the podcast that like an act one that like ooze, like
oo ze, we can call him that, Like that's a bet, little
uzi Berg. I mean there's all kinds of Look, that's just proof,
further proof he's gonna make multiple atturtles to return of the use I think for
me, I mean the defensive ball pressure just like and I think that them
being young and the way they can come at you from the perimeter was intense.
Their offense when you watched it was very eccentric where it was they weren't
necessarily living in transition, like they would just push and get into their offense
early after another team makes a shot. And I thought that was a sort
of an understated way that you know, people looked at the offense and there
wasn't enough shooting and outside shay would they have they like kind a lee average
half court offense, I think in large part because no, they weren't necessarily
always in transition, but like they were able to get the lane really quickly
with Jay dub and Josh Giddy and SGA and like that helps set everything else
up and that probably caught teams off guard, but it was like, to
do it consistently is not something that other teams complaint, Like if you're gonna
push after makes, you're gonna push after makes and like low it's like,
oh, they're not racing the ball at the floor necessarily, but they're just
gonna get into their half court offense really early. So I thought that drove
it. This is all to say, though, they were so good that
I got to a point where people like myself wanted them to start making some
splashes over the off season. We all knew they wouldn't. They did the
exact opposite, Like I mean, they get Thavis Berton's, they get Victory
Ladipo, they have Kays and Wallace. Now they bring over me Jach sign
him Jacob and you two can chime in after you know, Jacob says whatever.
So I don't make this podcast last two hours by going through each of
you individually for the question were you I know you weren't surprised by how the
off season played out, but what were your general impressions of how their off
season played out? There was a little bit of surprise, like I was
a believer that Vasila mi Chich was just never coming over, So that was
a big surprise to me. Renting out the cap space not a surprise at
all. This is a team who's biggest free agent acquisition ever probably Nerland's Noel
when he left the Dallas Mavericks. Wow, I guess you could Carmelo Anthony
maybe if you consider like him waving the no trade clause, but yeah,
that doesn't really count. Paul George after he technically hit free agency for like
two hours. This is just a yeah, that one was very clearly made
with let's run it back one more year and if you don't like it,
we'll trade you. Trade turned out even though he wasn't even on our roster.
Yes, yeah, trade turned out pretty pretty dad goom good. But
so a little bit of surprises and free agency for me, just because I
didn't think they would bring Mitchetts over ever. But running out the cap space,
that's nothing really new with this team. Didn't expect them to make a
splash because ever since they traded Russell Westbrook and really kicked off this rebuild,
the messaging from the front office has been very clear. They even took out
an ad in the local newspaper and wrote a massive op ed, a Sam
Presti op ed, which I'm surprised didn't end up going on like a seven
hundred page thesis about how they were going to go through this process, and
they were the quote that always stuck out to me. We will play the
empirical odds, which means they're gonna draft guys. They're gonna play the draft
lottery odds. And that is what they've done, and to be honest with
you, I think that's what they will continue to do. You saw some
moves over the summer where they take a pick this year or next year and
kick the can down the road to twenty twenty nine. They got a twenty
twenty nine Denver like top five protected pick. We might all be dead from
a nuclear holocaust in twenty twenty nine for all we know. But the Thunder
are trying to drag these assets out that I don't know if they're ever cashing
in all the picks. I think their plan is just to continue to replenish
with draft picks and not dive into free agency and just create the sustainable team
of young guys who continue to grow over time. So not a lot from
free agency really surprised me. They told us what they're gonna do, They've
written what they're gonna do, and they're doing it. And if Sam Presty
is nothing else, he is consistent and what he does with his messaging.
Nick, do you think there was any chance that the offseason could have played
out differently if we're talking about an actual Chet home grin sample size from last
season or no, it always would have just I mean, Jacob kind of
outlaid it that he believes they're not even never going to cash in their picks
anyway, So what would it always have ended this way even if Chet was
the rookie of the year or something. No, I think it actually could
look quite different. Okay, this is a team that the reason they run
these strange lineups were referred to and play thirteen deep sometimes is because they really
value time on court and analytics and who plays well with who and giving everybody
an opportunity. I truly think the reason not that they would have made a
huge blash, but the reason that Thunder didn't make any kind of splash this
offseason is because they want to see what che Wren looks like before making a
move right if he even summer leagues down enough of his sample size, Like
if he ends up being a guy that okay, he needs to play power
forward next to a traditional big that's completely different, then this guy's are permanent
five and you can play Jada next to him at four long term, And
so I think that definitely would have played into it. Like in terms of
surprises, though, I was kind of surprised they drafted a guard in Cason
Wallace, traded up to get him No. Less two right right, you
you bring in Mitchech as well, another guard, and then this team plays
four guard lineups a lot. So there's there's there's minutes to go around,
no question. But I if you would have gun into my head when that
pick came up, who's Oklahoma City taking? I thought Grady Dick would have
been the guy because he just like helps you now, he's got a ceiling,
he's a shooter, he does a lot of things that under need short
and lung term. And when it was Kason Wallace, great player, I
think up being really really good. That was probably the most surprising thing for
me in the offseason. Is like from Taylor from what you know or your
early impressions of Kays and Wallace, who, by the way, just I
can't say his name without thinking of the protein. I just can't. I
don't know why was he worth like that they took on the Davis Perton's money.
There's some that leaks into next year, and it was to move up
two spots and just based off like kind of how some of the other salary
dumps went for other teams like the Spurs. It felt like that could have
been worth more. Like what am I missing with Kays and Wallace the player
that he could be, and then his overall fit on the Thunder team that,
as Nick just said, has a trillion guards and even if they're gonna
play for guard line, I say, I don't know how many minutes are
going to be available for him out of the gate here. No, it's
a very fair point, I think the first thing. And again I also
was very surprised that Cayson Wallace was the pick. Cason. Cason kind of
a became a thing before the draft. It's a whole correct, you're correct,
it's yeah, not to take us down that rabbit hole, but that
is it was a topic of debate there because Cason said that his mom calls
him Cason. Our own guy, Jacob here was there for that introductory press
conference, but he actually went in like with the team before Summer League and
corrected the pronounced pronunciation and and it's Cason, so apparently his mom calls him
Cason. So anyways, long story short, I also was very surprised that
Cayson was the pick. However, there was some talk there I think the
Magic out of eleven maybe we're eyeballing Cason potentially, but I also think about
just like the kind of players that Pressy drafts, and this is another I
understand. I think he's six four, so he's not short by any means,
but has some extremely long wingspan, extremely strong point of attack defender.
He also, again we were all us so we were fortunate to be in
Vegas for Summer League. Got to watch this first Summer League game and saw
what he looks like, not only with the ball in his hands like we
saw some in Kentucky there at the end of the season, but also the
shooting and when I think he was like what six of like eight from three.
Again, it's just off the top of my head for that first again,
and there's just a lot of things that we saw there in Vegas that
could translate with how he plays with these guys that we've talked so much about
with his Thunder team. It will take some time, though, and so
that that will be very interesting to see how And that's a really big question
kind of hanging over this Thunder team. How does Dagnalt balance and Prescy balance
these young guys and their development verse the trajectory and improvements of Shay and Giddy
and Dort and the competitness of this team right Like, there's there's a fine
balance between both of those things. So it'll be really interesting to see how
how Cayson kind of fits in that moving forward. And Dan something we've learned.
You've seen this probably the last two seasons. Sam's a great talent evaluator,
like no question. His draft history speaks for himself. When he wants
a guy, he doesn't care if you ever pay look Usman Jang. He
traded three picks four, you know, so Kason Wallace taking on the Burton's
contract. Technically it was for both Dub and correct Correct Gret. But when
he wants a guy, he says, I don't care if this is my
guy, I'm gonna go get him, and so sometimes we'll see time will
tell, but kind of gotta trust Sam that's some at some point, you
know, he gets the benefit of the doubt. Which is why I wasn't
harsher when we did offseason grades, even though thunder fans weren't happy with ours,
And there was also the element of like they just had all this money
that they needed to spend, Like what is taking on Davis Burton's them.
I just wasn't this totally steps those those what we talked about on your podcast.
I just wasn't a fan of the Lodges, Like, well, now
they can move this trade for a player who's really going to help them,
Like move this player for another players really gonna help them make you more money.
And I'm like, but you didn't want them to spend in free agency
or make a trade. Now, what's the difference if they do that in
December? Because you saw chet Homegren playing twenty three games, I guess that
that totally matters. So That's where I'm landing on it. I just if
his shooting is as advertised and even the way he's gonna hustle defensively and what
he can do off the ball, I see the vision. But it's like
Jacob, like, who is who's playing more in year one? Is it
gonna be the twenty nine year old rookie in Mesich or Metch? How what's
his pronunciation? I thought I've heard both, Yeah, so I different.
I'm like, fuck, I've messed that one up. Is it the twenty
nine year old rookie or is it this guy coming out of Kentucky who was
a little bit of a mystery box, the full package, just because he's
a Kentucky guard and we all know that they're underutilized there. It's such a
fun question because these are two totally different players. Like Mitchich is the maestro
with the ball in his hands, you know, throwing All these assists can
shoot the ball. But the question is the defense. We've seen European players
who are a little bit older come over to the league in the past and
the defense just cannot hold up. Cason is much younger, and I mean,
the dude's a dog like he doesn't care, He'll he'll d up anybody,
like he just wants to get out there and fight and scrap. Sam
Presty described him as a no agenda basketball player. He just wants to get
out there and hustle Jacob who is a football player that you'd sitting there with
Mark Dignal and the after the Interest Decorate press conference and Dig made a comparison
there. Yeah, a reporter asked Ignal, who's your comparison for Cason Wallace?
And without missing a beat, coach goes ed Reid say to the Ravens
and I mean completely unexpected, like they're expecting a basketball player. And yeah,
this is a really hot take. Kason Wallace is Jimmy Butler's mentality and
on court like got that dog at him in a guard's body like that,
that is that is the way he plays. You're selling me if that's what
it's gonna look like back. So for the Thunder, like Mark Dagnal values
defense. If you get out there and you cannot defend, you are not
going to play. There was a whole thing two years ago with Trey Man
and Trey Man could go out there and he could shoot the piss out of
the ball, but he wouldn't defend. Mark would pull him. Always talked
about eating your broccoli before you eat your skittles. That became a big thing
in like the Thunder Universe. Eat your broccoli before you eat your skittles.
I mean, I think defensively, Cason can come in and play, but
do you go with the guy that has way more experience, albeit not NBA
experience, but who you know is going to be a steadying offensive or can
get you into your sets, can hit an open shot. The question with
Mitchich is always going to be the defense, and so it's going to be
so interesting to see what he looks like throughout camp, throughout the preseason,
the early part of the year. If I had to bet, I would
say that Mitchich plays more minutes than Cayson Wallace this year would not surprise me
if Cayson plays ten fifteen games in the G League either. The Thunder love
to utilize their G League program, which is housed in the same building,
plays the games on the same floor that the Thunder playoff. And I know,
I guess it isn't a huge deal because of O Casey flexibility, but
you also you gave him the room exception. It's like, would he have
come stateside? That's good money, but would he have come stateside without the
promise of actual minutes is just where I've kind of so I've always defaulted to
him, but it feels like Cason is clearly like the higher upside play just
because of not just his youth, but like the actual package that he could
theoretically bring in. We have not talked about, or I haven't asked about
chat Homegren, who, in case anyone didn't realize, did not play last
year. So let's start here, Jacob, what are the year one expectations
for him? Looking at his role? Is it? Are they going to
try and bring him along a little bit more slowly even if he's starting is
it? Is he just going to be totally unleashed from the get go?
What are they going to look for him to do on offense? Defense?
Like? What should we expect to see from his year one role on this
team? De facto year one role? Excuse me? Yeah, to make
another reference to a dog, because he's a dog. I think the chain's
off. He's good to go. He's gonna go out there. He's gonna
be starting center night one. I think he's playing the five. That's the
plan is to play him at the five. He's a five. I the
Summar League. Just so I had questions. I'm not gonna lie. I
think a lot of people do He's he's the five and I As far as
like offensive expectations, this team hasn't had a lop threat like ever. They
have had no one that can set a screen rolled at the basket and get
above the rim to catch the pass. We've talked on our podcast there's a
free four assists a game between Shay and Josh giddy On just lobs to the
rim for check Homegroun. They've never had anybody like that before the pick and
pop game. I think he's going to provide a lot. As far as
spacing is concern, he was in a boot almost all of last season.
All he could do was shoot the basketball, and so he practiced shooting.
He said at the end of last season his goal is to be a fifty
ninety guy. Like he's mad that he didn't refer to it as like a
two point three point percentage type thing rather than fifty and the defensively, I
mean we talked at the top of the show. They played ken Rich Williams
at the five, a six foot six guy. You're now about to put
the one thing this team lacked last season was rim protection, and they made
up for it with strong point of attack defense and with Jay Will drawing charges,
their rim defense was playing below the rim and drawing charges. Now you
bring in arguably the best shot blocking rookie we've seen in what a decade.
I think he will completely revolutionize the way that this team plays basketball. Like
I think it's going to look so much different than it looked last year.
He is insane and drop coverage, and I'm typically not a fan of drop
coverage defense, but when he got a guy like Shay or lou Dort who
can just be a dog at the point of attack, you can let Chet
drop and protect the rim. He is so good and not just like reading
the play, but his placement, his rotation. You watch some of those
Summer League games, He's at the top of the key on the left hand
side, and the next thing you know, he's two hand blocking Jake la
Ravia on the other side of the RIM's like sending the guy to the shadow
realm. It's everything will change when Chet homing takes the floor for the thunder,
and I think it's gonna take a while for them to all adjust.
But the sky's the limit. I mean, if you told me he's gonna
play sixty five games next year in average twenty eight to thirty minutes a game.
I'm not surprised at all. Hey, that's double the amount of game
Zion will probably play it, so progress. There's also the element of like
him being in drop and just around the basket, like that helps your rebounding
where I think were they twenty eighth and defensive rebounding rate last year? So
let of help. But he's a skinny dude who will grab boards. And
the point that Jake was maybe he reminds me a little bit the ground that
he can cover effectively from the outside in anyway is like Anthony Davis ESQ.
Like what we saw on Anthony Davis against the Warriors. That's what I had
to think about it too hard, but like that's what it sort of reminded
me of. Jacob did mention though, that it might take a while for
everyone to adjust Nick. Is there like any specific cern about his fit on
this team or adjustments that they're going to need to go through? Is it?
Well, how do Sga and Giddy work with him? Does one of
them develop a better connection with him than the other, does one of them
struggle to adapt? Like? What is just the biggest if there is a
concern about his fit with this team leading into the season. Yeah, I
think a lot of people talk about Chet Homegrin's difficulty adjusting to the NBA,
but the reality is that maybe the guys around him that have a more difficult
time adjusting to him. This could be too small a sample size, but
Josh and Chet in Summer League last year so before the injury, was was
bonkers, like on off the court, best buds, you know, perfect
chemistry from day one, So I maybe foolish. I think they're gonna be
fine from day one. Him and Shay will be a work in progress,
and playing with any superstars tough, like it's it's just a different game.
I do wonder how the Thunder approach him being near the rim versus on the
perimeter. I think there's a lot of things Chet does really well in space,
but it takes him away from the rim. He covers ground great,
he can go block shots on the weak side, but I think that could
be an adjustment that's tough for him specifically, is like putting himself in a
spot to do the things he does well as often as possible. Because he's
so versatile, you can put him in spots that he will still be impactful,
but may inherently remove some of the value he brings because he's not in
the spot that he's most impactful, if that makes sense. Yeah, is
there a chance even though we're all in agreeing with that he's a five tailors,
there a chance that we see like him and Jay will play minutes together,
like they'll play him with another I say, true, big, but
like there's Jay will and that's just that's it. Absolutely, Dare you disrespect
alexey Pokashevski Dan? Yeah, but correct the thunder adjuts find these seven footers
who can ply all over the court, growing on trees, Him, Ushman,
Jang like they're just they're all over the place. Apparently, it is
a very fair point. Like I keep thinking about this, Dan, just
a complete fun aside. Imagine a ridiculous what I'm calling the quote unquote long
boy lineup of Shay Giddy, Usman, Jang, Poku and Chet just too
much. Like that's like wingspan that can cover the circumference of the earth,
right, Yeah, it'd be wild to your point. Yes, and again
I make that joke only because it just shows you the versatility of this team,
and something that we've talked a lot about on our podcast, something that
you've talked about when you came on on our podcast here not very long ago,
is the versatility, right, A bunch of long, versatile, high
IQ basketball players who can just rip the ball off the rim and take it
in transition. Like, yeah, you can see Chet playing the four.
And I mean honestly, like there's not going to be a true four or
five like you see. You could see Chet with any combination of like we
talked about Kenrith Julian is playing the five last season, right, but yes,
I think we will see him with like a true maybe a more traditional
five like Joe'll think about yeah, right, yeah, And I don't even
think about there's a two way player like Joel we'll see. I even think
about there's a two way player that that's undersigned Olivier Saar who's been with the
team on two way and and ten day contracts here over the past year or
two at seven two like kind of true big. His younger brother actually is
a very prominent NBA draft prospect in this upcoming draft, which may or may
not have something to do with that. We'll see regardless, Like I do
see Chet playing alongside somebody like an Olivia Saar or gosh, like you said,
like a j Will But ultimately I see him playing that true five kind
of like Jacob Loud to shake Guilder. Salvisator has become a problem for this
podcast because you reach a certain level of awesome, you can't really ask any
more questions. But these podcasts are designed for the people who don't follow the
Thunder, even though the most compliments we get are from people who will probably
follow the Thunder because we have you guys on is there a next runtier for
him? Is it just like Taylor? Is it like, oh, look,
he shot actual three pointers like on volume this year, Like what is
it like? What would the next runtier for Shay Gilders doesn't even look like
at this point, I mean honestly and again like very much admitting my homerism
here full disclaimer, but you see him in FIBA and Dane you talked about
that became on our podcast, Like it just it almost seems like he's continuing
to take a leap after what he did last season when he finished top five
in the MVP voting, was first team All NBA, and I think he
will continue that like what we're seeing. We saw him more consistant three point
shot. We saw more elite separation in terms of his step back shot,
like it's step back from three, and he's going to continue to create.
We talked about Chet coming here, you know, coming into this the starting
lineup and giving him more options there and even this thunder team surrounding him with
more shooters, like there is a lot to be excited about with Shay and
again like you don't you don't want to overhype it per se, but like
I don't know, Dan, I think he might be able to take I
don't want to say another similar leap to last season, but I think he
will improve. And we'll be talking about Shay as an All Star and potentially
Top three and be peeking at it like that's kind of maybe the best case
scenario. It's curious for me. It's the defense, like we've we've we
saw Shay take a huge leap defensively last year, but if you go back
and watch, it was mostly like crunch time, fourth quarter, like when
it mattered most, he showed he could defend, Like can we see that
all game long? Can you carry that offensive load while also being that guy
on defense all it's exhausting. There's very few guys that can do it.
But that to me is like the three point shots obvious. But if he
can be the high level defender, disruptor on that end, playmaker on that
end all game long, I mean, good grief, what is the ceiling
at that point? So really quick, before Jacob goes dan, you actually
mentioned the SNAr podcast earlier that we recorded before this, So I went ahead
and pull up these stats because I had a screenshot of it. That's what
he joked about after the fever on YouTube. Yeah, I'll go ahead and
hold it up for the people to see. Taylor does not suck around.
That's right. I got my stats and I am prepared. But in terms
of defense, Shay was number one lous falls recovered, number two in deflections,
number one amongst guards and contesting threes, number one amongst guards and blocks,
and number three amongst guards and steals. So he really did take a
pretty significant leap defensively this past season. To nick point, Jacob, you
have anything to add on Shay, I think they covered it. Just every
time Shay takes a step away from organized basketball. He comes back better.
You know, he was the twelfth pick in the draft. He came in,
he over achieved in his rookie year. I have a stats pulled up
here when he just looked at points throughout his career ten point eight to nineteen
point zero to twenty three point seven to twenty four point five to thirty one
point four. We talked a lot about progress not linear. His is pretty
dag gum linear. Like it's every time he leaves he comes back with something
new. A couple of years ago, it was the step back three and
it didn't work. So you've mentioned what do you do? Last year,
he just purged it. He shot like two a game. I want to
be surprised to see those numbers go up. And I think Nick brings up
a good point about making the defensive impact more consistent across the game. The
thing is, with all these young guys and all this promise on this team,
he doesn't have to go out and gun on offense every single night.
Now he can defer a little bit more and save some of that energy and
be more of an impactful defender. I think we will see a better Shay
gilches Alexander this coming season, even if it's not just basic stats better,
I think I was so impressed with him defensive. You guys watched him more
than I did over the past few years obviously, So like, I'm just
he carries such a heavy load on offense, and I don't know why you
would want to necessarily take away from that load right now, even though you
have Jadub, you have Josh Getting, you have Jed Holgrin. But I
could see something I didn't think about until Jacob just gave his answer, is
like, if lou Dort kind of gets squeezed from this rotation because of the
way it's set up, and if he's like taken too many shots because it's
very clear that he needs to take fewer shots at this point, then everyone
sort of gets leveled up a bit, and so you have j Dub,
but then like a lot more of a burden falls on SGA and Josh Giddy.
But I do think, like when you look at someone like the matchups
Shay found himself in most frequently last season, like they weren't nobody dudes like
they were Got. They weren't stationary guys as well, say, they weren't
primary ball handlers for the most part, but they weren't stationary, and he
was just there weren't as many lapses. It felt like he was doing really
well on the gaps. I was just so floored. It comes back to
I think it's a cliche. It's just the shooting, Like, dude,
fire up more threes because he he's hit enough big moment step backs where it's
like, hey, if you shoot thirty three percent thirty one percent on those,
there's value in the volume. But I will ask you collectively this,
do you guys know what he shot on step back threes last year off the
top of my head. Now, I know two seasons ago it was very
poor. I don't know what it was last year, though I knew it
off the top of my head only because I belabored it to no end and
a few things. I wrote thirty seven point two percent last year, So
thirty seven is step back, step back, step back threes, by the
way, not just like filtering out step back two is there? So Shay,
if you're listening, you obviously are like just fucking take them, Like
come on, like, just just take them. Uh. Nick I was
labeled to Josh Giddy Hayter, and I think deservedly, so I was just
solo on him. I wanted your podcast last year talked about Hello, I
was on him. I said it many times on my podcast. He proved
me wrong, like eighty times over to start. What was the biggest development
for him last season or the thing that he did better or added to his
game that was most impressive to you? I think probably a cop out answer,
but I think just the the ability to process the game and no moment
being too big, Like his best game of the season arguably was in the
plan. I agree where a lot of guys at I mean, was he
was he even yet? Was he nineteen? Was he twenty at that time?
Could he make him the new like Perma nineteen year old like Jayson Tatum
is because I had no idea he was that young until we did. You
your podcast and you guys like, yeah, it's it's nuts. But the
way he processed, Like if you if you didn't really watch the NBA and
you just went and watched a Thunder game and you watch Josh Giddy, the
way he leads the offense and reads the game and processes of the game and
makes the right moves, you think the dude's been in the league for ten
years, and while we saw flashes of that as a rookie, there was
a lot of bad rooky mistakes as well. There's still room to improve.
But like at that age, the way the team performed a lot of it's
not what you did well, it's what you didn't do wrong. Like if
you turn the ball over a lot as a team, you're you're kind of
screw. Didn't matter who's on your roster. Tiger playing his ability to like
play smart and have the ball in his hands a lot, I mean heat
two point eight turnovers game last year for how much he had the ball in
his hands at his age, super impressive. So that was what stuck out
to me most. There's obviously the three point shooting was improved, started drawing
fouls a bit more, a little bit better defensively, Like there's a lot
of things to love about what he did, but the processing just bonkers,
Like it's it's next level. The same question to you and Jacob Taylor.
Jacob and Taylor, excuse me, I like anything was it? The shooting?
Was it? The processing was even just shout like fifty percent of voters
last year I think too, is like that part of his game was was
really polished. Anything else, Like just what stood out the most to you
will go Jacob, I think, I mean Nick hit the nail on the
head. I think another piece that goes into that it is just the toughness.
I think as a rookie, a lot of guys kind of get pushed
around, unless you like Steven Adams, who came in the league and took
a sucker punch from Zach Randolph and kept jogging down the court. I Josh
took a big leap as far as just his physicality. That's something that this
team harped on a lot at their end of season interviews two years ago after
Josh's rookie season, and you just saw a lot more of that from him.
Sam Presty noted specifically, like this in traffic rebound that Josh got at
the end of a Chicago Bulls game in Oklahoma City that kind of sealed the
win for the Oklahoma City Thunder, and how he didn't care if he was
the point guard or he just went in there. He bullied some guys out
of the way, he grabbed a rebound and sealed the game off. And
just I think my favorite two of my favorite players from Josh Giddy last year.
One was in that playing game when I'm gonna forget the guy's name.
He played at Edmund Santa Fe. He's a wing for Josh Richardson. Josh
Richardson took a shot and got and got giddy in the you know the backstory
of Josh Richardson without knowing, I didn't know anything you said until you just
said the said, not a lot of NBA guys come out of Oklahoma City,
Dan. So we get him, we remember him, except when we're
on the hard Work Knocks podcast and I forget his name. Josh Richinston took
a shot and like hit Giddy and the nuts and Getty got up like ready
to swing and was like screaming at him, and you could very clearly see
on the broadcast he was like pointing at Richardson saying, don't do that shit
again. So that was moment number one. Moment number two was a game
in Brooklyn when he back down. Who do you guys remember who it was?
It? Yeah, I think it was Claxton. He backed down Nick
Claxton turned around, hit a layup over his head. I mean he was
being physical and then did the two small gesture and pointed out him did the
two small gesture on the way back down the court and Josh Giddy he can
get a little hot and you love to see it from a twenty year old.
I think he just took such a leap with his physicality and just playing
tough. If he comes in this season at like two twenty pounds two hundred
twenty six nine two twenty five point guard, like, what do you do
with that? Yeah, the shots not great. I think it will continue
to grow because he's twenty. But to me that one of the biggest steps
for him was just learning the physicality of the game and embracing it. A
lot of guys will shy away from that. I think the thunder of building
a team just again full of dogs who just want to get after it,
want to get physical, want to rough the game up, and I want
to be surprised to start kind of seeing that as their identity moving forward,
Taylor, what should we be watching most closely for from Josh Giddy and year
three, Whether it's something to perfect add to his game or just a concern
or anything. Well, I think the low hanging threw here is the three
point shooting, right, We saw that improve. But that is going to
be huge because we've talked so much about this, Dan already being here on
your podcast, but we've talked a lot about it when you were on our
podcast as well. When you're playing alongside players like Shay Guilds, Alexander and
Jaylen Williams at a Kaju Santa Clara, Jaylen Williams, and you have all
the a Mitchete even like you have all these different ball handlers, you have
this identity that the Presti and the th Nerd building towards where you have so
many different guys who can do play make at a high level, but you're
going to need some spot up shooting. I believe Giddy was much better at
that last season. Thirty four point cent at thirty four percent is off the
top of my head, and that is an improvement, especially like you mentioned
earlier, Dan, like when you have somebody like Chip England coming in from
the San Antonio Spurs, like that is huge. And he spent a lot
of time with Josh Giddy this last year, and that that's not just like
hearsay like every picture in practice, like he was right there with Josh Giddy,
and they're obviously honing in on that because they want shay And and Josh
be able to play alongside one another and being incredibly efficient. But I think
that three point shooting, that spot up shooting, even off the dribble that
they're point shooting, is going to be very important for this team moving forward.
I'll throw in one. I alluded to it a second ago. He
got better, a long way to go. Most guys that break out from
like this young rising star to an actual star, they rapidly increase their point
production from the free throw line, like that's where they generate the point he
was off from shape. Okay, Josh Giddy's free through rate was like thirteen
percent last year, the worst on the team. And he gets to the
rim a lot a guy's position, consider his frequency as a driver and as
a rim shooter, and that free throw rate is just like if he can
fig and he talked about at the end of the season, it really is
something you have to learn, like in the league, you gotta learn how
to draw fouls. When he gets that and he's taking five, six,
seven free throws a game, tack on an extra five points. Now we're
talking about a guy, it's averaging twenty two you know, nine and seven
next you know what I mean. It's it's that that is the next thing
for Josh Giddy tea. And we talked so much about this on our The
Uncontested podcast when we were talking about Shay and that next step he needed to
make here, I mean not quite a year ago, more like two years
ago. We talked a little bit about some last off season as well.
We saw Shay do that well in FIFA again, I mean FIVA again,
Like, this is very if FIFA. I've been watching my My Chelsea Blues
a little too much recently and FIBA, like we saw that. I believe
he averaged like around and guys correct me. Was it nine pre throw attempts
per game? Something around there? Like if that can translate into the regular
season, that's very exciting. Is it too national podcast? Or who doesn't
watch any games of me Jacob to be curious about, Like what do the
no SGA minutes look like with Giddy this year? Because I think when you
dig into the numbers, they were not good last year. I think they
were were I have a huge ten percentile in offense, they weren't hitting threes
in a high clip, And I'm just wondering how much does that have anything
to do with Giddy's limitations or is it more about, well, how much
shooting was in those lineup, because if you're gonna dig into those, there
are a lot of like, Okay, well he's with both Jail and williams
Is and maybe they're throwing Isaiah Joe out there, but there's at least one
other shooting liability. So there could be times you're playing with Giddy and then
three shooting liabilities are three sub average shooters. Was it more about that than
any limitations of Giddy's game? I think the answers somewhere in the middle,
right, it's in the gray area. He's got to take the next step
as being like a self creator and not just a creator for others. I
think also just some of those statistics, just Shay was so damn good at
any time he was off the court, things went downhill pretty quickly. But
yeah, I think you could put some of that at the feet of Josh.
But I think this year there's going to be so many other tools around
him. When Shay is off the floor, you put Mitchette out there with
him. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see a lot of no Shay
but Josh Giddy and home grin lineups, because those two have already proven they
have great chemistry. I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot of Josh Giddy
and Jay Dub together whenever she's off the floor, just to try to maximize
what Josh is good at, which is get inside and then find open guys
as shooters, but even more importantly as cutters. This team the death of
a thousand paper cuts. They'll just cut to death and get shots at the
rim. So I want to be surprised to see a little more intentionality around
him whenever Shay is off the floor. But I do think it's a combination
of some of it's Josh and he's a second year guy who slumped at the
beginning of the season started to rise at the end, and you know some
of the pieces that they had around him. I think both of those things
are totally fair. Yeah, I think it's different when you're not only not
worried about covering him like on threes, but you're not covering like two other
players you don't care exactly, like clogged the lane and make the game nasty
nick keeping with the what we just saw versus what should we be watching?
Moving forward onto Jalen Williams. What most impressed you or surprised you about Jalen
Williams' rookie seat Ja Dubbs rookie season. Sorry, a lot of things.
I'll admit I was not the highest on him coming into the draft, Like
he started to get that really late buzz during the pre DAFT process and people
were talking about him as a late first mid first round guy. He went
in the lottery, I was like, holy cow, Like that is that
feels like a reach. I think the improved three point shooting surprised me a
lot. Like he came out and was really bad from three early on,
and I think he finished the season thirty six thirty seven percent from three early
in the years, like in the twenties for a long long time. The
defense didn't surprise me. There's a lot of people. I got crucified on
Twitter early in the season for saying Jalen williams defense is underrated. Don't be
shocked when he makes a huge impact, and you know, people look at
the numbers he's so bad on defense, and like dude, he's played four
games, Like, give him a chance. Look at the numbers on defense
is just so such a fucking true metrics. They can be used team stats,
imperfect. Right. Also, the dude had a crater and like not
a crater in his face, but he like broke his eyeball game one for
game one, he said on a recent podcast that like he still has to
take eye drops and sleep sitting up. Yeah, said he couldn't see.
He couldn't see peripheral peripherally. It's a really hard word out of the eye
that got hit until like Christmas time he got hit in October. Yeah,
I wish you would have played with an eye patch. Person basically dubbed it
all that on one eyeball. Imagine what he's gonna do with two eyeballs having
peripheral vision. Yeah, he said he shot out two rams for like two
mouths. Sorry, Dick, I can believe that. I'll conclude with this
the thing that shocked me most, which I don't know if it's sustainable.
Dan, you may have an opinion on this. His at the rim efficiency
was not just like rookie good, but like top of the league good.
I'd love for that to continue, that's gotta drap that. That feels like
a regression to the mean pretty hard this year. So I mean, sure
you're not, like I think you're not gonna shoot seventy percent at the rim
all the time. I would guess anyway, unless you're a big However,
now you're putting him in a better spacing environment and he was just in an
imperfect one, and like, if he can do a little bit more,
if there's like a little bit more laterality to his game. Maybe this I
didn't know about the peripheral vision thing, Like maybe that's why I felt like
there wasn't a lot of on ball laterality to his give like the east westness.
He's gonna add that. Why wouldn't, Like, now you've chet home
grin, if he's in line up with meat hits, and maybe Josh Giddy
makes another shooting slump, Like if he's in a lineup consistently with three shooters
like around him, who might be considered a shooter at this point himself?
I wouldn't rule it out. Uh. Jacob liked to make emotion to a
kick out Nick from the uncontested in that Dan it would be a lockside of
trade that's trading Jannis Frisia, Joe and Dan's favor. That's that's not true.
We need we need Nick for the balance that yeah you got you have
contested one of my very best friends. I like to get him a hard
time as he does to me. Yeah, I give. I do the
same thing to my co host who picked Jalen Williams to win Rookie of the
Year. And I did not know that any opinion related to the Orlando Magic
could go that viral, and like fans like we've their book Ahead podcasts actually
are one of our better performing look Ahead podcasts. The stuff that was on
Twitter because I just I thought he made a compelling argument for j dub So
I put on Twitter mistake one and it just got picked up. But and
there was like people from like big websites just claiming he doesn't watch games,
and it's like, bro, you cover another sport. Mister, who's that
guy at the ringer. He's really funny, he does a great job,
Kevin, he's a Magic fans anyway. No, he's not a thrower anymore.
Oh shoot, he doesn't deserve as he seems like a great guy.
He was really fucking shitty on that day with Grant, but like it went,
Magic fans were rabid, and I thought Grant was wrong. I p
I pen Palo Bank Carrow. I thought his role was just more complex,
like he's a Santa Clara along. So if you need someone who's high on
Jay Dubb, okay, there's a little bit of maybe, but I love
him already. I mean, Brandon Pagemski is gonna have some propaganda on your
pod this year? Then yeah, I mean and look this, the amount
of times we have like Steve Nash references on this podcast when we're never ever
talking about Steve Nash AND's he got fired from the Brooklyn Nets is just it's
impressive. Honestly, that's the name. I just went, he's a producer
for was that Surui reached out? Oh it wasn't. And I can't even
look him upcause I'm followed him when I saw, like, how rude,
you're good And maybe it's not even Kevin not I'm thinking about it, but
he hoists the NFL show. There's like craze right now, it's not even
probably Kevin. Yeah, look what koc He's good, but the other Kevin's
so Jacob, what should we be watching foremost with Jalen Williams entering year two,
what should we not be watching? Like you're hoping he like adds or
is it let's see what he looks like in the offensive pecking order. Now
that is there, I think he's still gonna be high in the pecking order.
I would say probably the three point shooting. Nick mentioned it. He's
shot thirty five point six percent on two point seven attempts last year. To
see that go up a little bit, He's got some juice from outside.
He's got a step back game. He's I mean he played point guard his
whole life until he got to Oklahoma City. I would probably say the three
point shooting and the defense are like the two things where if he makes jumps
there, it just it gets to silly time really quick. He's built like
a freaking brick house. He's six six. When you look at Instagram pictures,
like he's getting drug tested as soon as he gets to campus. I
mean he got jed. Literally, he made a joke about that. Yeah,
he's six six with a seven three wingspan. I mean he just has
all the physical tools you guys are talking about. Is at the rim finishing
a lot of that is just his footwork and his positioning and his physicality,
Like he just bullies guys out of the way. He's such a great cutter.
He gets so many players just off bat cuts. Really cerebral player that
now that he's gonna start the season being able to use both eyes, I
mean the Skuy's. You know, I am very, very very high on
Jadub. He and he's the one guy on this team that to me at
least really fits like this is what a really good NBA player looks like.
Like Josh is so unique and chet people look at I can't tell you how
many like very casual NBA fans like no, I run an NBA podcast and
say, well, there's no way Jet Holmgren is going to be able to
play in the NBA. Someone's gonna back him down to the rim. And
I'm like, all right, bro, it's not nineteen eighty five, like
the game has changed, but there's they're so specific and so unique in what
they do and j Dub Like, to me, JDub looks so much like
a Jimmy Butler, and like a Jalen Brown, and like a Paul George
and like a Kawhilon he just he has that type of size and build and
style of play that he's the one that is like most rep applicable. I
don't know if that's a word to like just kind of copy paste your traditional
NBA superstar. Well he get there, I don't know, but he's he's
the one that fits the mold the easiest. And I just think that the
combination of the physical tools, the basketball like you, the unselfishness, I
think it's really gonna pop this year. And we've talked a lot about this,
Sorry, Dan, and I want you, I want your opinion on
this, because we've talked a lot about for example, here a year ago,
we were talking about two years ago, we're talking about say, getting
to the free thro the line. It's kind of his next step into EMBA
stardom. We just talked about Josh Giddy getting to the freeth the line more
being more physical. And I understand you need spacing on a basketball team in
this day and age, but therap disagree. But fair point, but this
their Sorry. This last season, Jadab average five point two free throw attempts
point at the free throw attempts per game on seventies seven percent from the free
throw line, and when you saw him at size, like, I'd love
to see him get to the free throw line more that those are just I
mean, do you need facing if all your guys can get to the free
throw line at such a high rate and make him at such a higher I
don't know, it's it's a fascinating thing to think about. He does have
the type of build though, where it feels like he won't get the benefit
on a lot of plays near the basket, like that whistle, just because
he's so strong that dudes al either bounce off of him where it's like it's
like the Zion effect kind of where it looks like he's getting just womped and
it's just oh no, Like he's huge, so especially some of the players
that are gonna be defending him, it might be smaller, but yeah,
there's that, and I would like I mean, Jacob mentioned that he has
a little bit of a step back. I would like to see more of
just sort of the squishiness to his on ball game where it's like, is
there the pull up he didn't really bust out. I think I only feel
like one step back at tempt from him that I'm remembering in games that I
watched, so I'd like to see if he could add that. I don't
know if it's necessary, but speaking of infinitely scalable future NBA superstars, us
Monjang is nine feet tall, as we mentioned on your podcast, and if
anyone wants to outline the picture that's apparently flowed around out there, feel free.
Oh I can't wait to look then he I actually think he's a pretty
cerebral player on offense when you look at the passing feel anyway, I think
he's you guys have mentioned he's a little slow based defensively, I think around
the basket, he's really fantastic. Now he's just bigger, so I just
like I can only imagine what that'll look like. So he needs to get
quicker. When I'm struggling with here, I'll throw this to Jacob. What
is his role on this team? Because he doesn't feel to use your phrase
copy and paste on offense at all. I just don't know what he is
without the ball, and there are so many different mouths to feed on the
ball now, there are so many different skill sets. That is he in
danger of not playing a prominent role or can we expect him assuming he stays
healthy that he is going to be like sixth or seventh in this rotation.
It's a great question, just because we didn't see much of him at all
last year, and when we did, he was showing some really good flashes
before the wrist injury. There was a game done in Atlanta where he came
in and had like nine or ten points and like two or three assists,
and it's just like wow, like here's ouse and he looks awesome. Summer
League started a little rocky for him. One thing that really stuck out to
me, and this is kind of back to the on ball stuff that you
mentioned, Dan, there was a game in Summer League against the Indiana Pacers.
The Thunder had like four guards and zero of them knew how to get
the ball at the chet homegrin on a post up, on a roll,
to the rim, on a cut anything. Then they put the ball in
Usmanjang's hand and he immediately got like four assists to chet, just like feeding
it over the top of the pick and roll and over the help defense.
You know, throwing these these wraparound passes. The Thunder are very very clearly
building a team of players who can pass dribble and are working on the shooting.
They want guys that have a high level of IQ and as Sam Presty
has described it, play with more rhythm less pattern. I feel like Usmanjang
really fits that if the kitchen shoot three can come along, especially from the
corners. He's pretty good at cutting. I think all three of us would
agree. Our biggest complaint from for Usmanjang last year was the inability to take
contact. He would shy away from contact. He would shoot these weird like
finger rolls and these these floaters, and we're saying that like Dujr. Six
nine, six ten, two fifteen, like go yamt on somebody. I
think he's starting to learn to embrace that contact more, which will come in
great hand cutting off the ball. I don't see a ton of possessions for
him where he is like the on ball creator. But I think in the
ideal Thunder system, they don't want one guy sitting with the ball all of
the time. They want that ball to ping around, drive cut, kick,
cut, drive kick out, drive, cut kick again, and then
somebody's got a wide open layup. Guys that can make very fast decisions.
And I think I mean us Monjang played point guard his whole life, Like
he shot up six inches in like his high school junior senior year before he
went over to New Zealand to play for the Breakers and kept all those guard
skills. Kind of a theme with this theme with this team, and I
think that's where he fits in. I think it's gonna take some time.
But if you told me at the end of the year, who has played
in seventy games and is averaging eighteen twenty minutes, like, I wouldn't be
surprised. Especially now with the Poku injury to start the season, there's a
lot more open reps for a big wing on this team, and I think
Jang is ready to slide in. And you want to talk about young guys,
like Jang's like freaking fifteen or something. I don't know, He's like
he's a baby. He is so young. I honestly, I think Nick
is he's still nineteen? Is he twenty? Do you think he was?
He's just turned twenty. I think he's younger than like all but ten guys
that went in the first round back in June, So he's he's still very
very young. I wonder what a six men of the Year were betting odds
would be like even if there's like a sports book that's offering though I would
be shocked if he was on there. But if he was, I don't
think he believed me on there. You can't trust the thunders like I mean,
entire rotation really for guys getting out of kat You certainly can't trust it
off the bench. But I'd one one hundred percent. I mean, like
when you're looking at who would be the first guys off the bench unless they're
planning on eventually like moving lou Dort there or something. He's not really a
sixth Man of the Year type guy. Just I'd just be intrigued, Like
I'd be intrigued in what they are, uh Nick, given the I mean
there's the Poku injury, but given they have Jay will Chad Holme, Grin
now the ken Ridge Williams at center lineups that we all have an affinity for,
and I mean, I guess I'm gonna say it's mon Jaget center lineup
says you're like the dudes like nine pe tall, like you might as well
try it is Poku no longer a thing, and don't let the fragile state
of my heart relative to your answer impact what that answer actually is. I
mean, look at the shirt that you're wearing. There, Dana, go
to the merch right here, great block by Mike. There we go.
Uh No, I think people the injuries have been super unfortunate, like this
is three in a row now that have kept him out for at least several
weeks. But people forget at the beginning of the season he was phenomenal.
And not only is the phenomenal, he was playing in a role that he
really probably shouldn't be playing, like he was thrust into playing a lot of
center, where if you're asking me, he's not a center like he is,
he's a wing to me, he's like a combo forward. So I
think absolutely, assuming he comes back healthy and can. He's gonna miss training
camp, which kind of sucks for rotational purposes, but if he can integrate
himself into the lineup in the first ten fifteen games, I think he could
be a guy. I would take Poku six minut of the Year odds before
I would take us. I'll say that it's it's human natured to every recency
bias. If we re round back to November, Poku is awesome, So
I'm not out on him. Got to stay healthy obviously, but the things
he does at his size, like defensive playmaker, he was guarding all five
positions, blocking, stealing in the passing lanes, grab it, rebound,
pushed the ball like he's a guard like he is very very good. And
I think he checks a lot of the boxes for the thunder one and he
can slot into four positions. We've seen point Boku. I don't think we'll
see point Poku much this year, but he theoretically can't play five positions and
we've seen it, so I think it would be shocking if he wasn't in
the rotation earlier in the season. Music to my ears, and I will
say, I think it's important that nationally everyone says recognize that like this isn't
some novelty like he You mentioned the stuff he was doing defensively. I thought
he got really a lot better as a helper last year. And I think
even Sam Press he talked about all the improvement he has made incrementally, even
if you don't notice it each year, And I do you know you mentioned
him pushing the ball. One of the things that I think impressed me most
there's a point in the season and I don't remember where it was. He
knew where to be without the ball, and it just felt like he was
making quicker decisions when the ball came to him in the half court. I
really believe all jokes side that this is like a could be an impact NBA
player, and so I hope he's in the rotation. But this is one
of the things that I'm incredibly biased on. The Taylor. Thing I wanted
to ask here is we kind of mentioned all these different dudes. Now the
Thunders rerecord this have nineteen players under contract. I believe what are some there
are some easy guys where it's like, okay, like Jack White's not gonna
be on the overnight roster. We just know that's not going to happen.
Like who else, Like how are we trimming from this to get down to
like the roster maximum? And that's that's the big question hanging over this Thunders
off season, right. A great problem to have, granted, but something
that we've talked about in this podcast. Sorry I'm the Uncontested podcast. Dan.
I believe we even asked you a little bit about this when you were
on then Contested Here earlier as well. It gets very tough. But you
think about guys like, for example, and this is something we've tried to
preach over the past couple of years, like they're going to be very good
players or a cut I shouldn't say very good, but they're going to be
competent NBA players who are cut from this team and we'll probably go on to
other teams and flourish. That's just the reality of what Sam Prescy is building.
And it shouldn't be like, oh my gosh, the blank player went
to this team and has been playing so well, Why did the thunder cut
him well, because he didn't necessarily fit with what the Thunder building, And
you know, there will be opportunities for these other players to go and flourish.
And some of the players that I'm thinking of ore for example, trade
Man Trey Man is a player who showed a lot of promise his freshman season.
Freshman season, I'm a very much in college football mode right now his
rookie season, but this past year he kind of struggled. He especially with
some of these guards and playmakers like that we've talked so much about here tonight.
Tree Man's won this on the top of my mind right now, I
think about JR. Et Jeremiah Robinson Earl who also had a very good rookie
season but last year kind of struggled between injuries, mean and I'll rotation,
but a very competent NBA player. One of those guys from Villanova we talked
so much about on our podcast, the Villa Nova that can take you guys,
these guys who can at that same really had Sam Pressy really values from
these college programs who can come in and impact a game immediately, right or
can impact a team immediately, but they kind of fallen out of the pecking
were because, like you get to a point where the thunder rat do you
value the development of guys that we've talked about such as why am I going
blank now? Usman Jaying and players of that nature that you want to see
some of that development from compared to like getting JR just some playing time.
I think JR. Treyman are two the ones that come to the top of
my mind. Jacob Nick who am I missing here? I mean, Jack
White's an obvious one as well. Thicker all three, so I mean it's
tough. I'd be pretty shocked if JR. He was on this roster beyond
trading camp Jack White is the obvious one. I think one of the big
contracts will likely go, whether it's Berton's or Lady. But it doesn't mean
waiver cut. That could mean trade, although you probably have attached an asset
as we saw Oklahoma City get to take on those players, but that's just
taking in one of those players and cutting a tray Man or an Aaron Wiggins
is really hard. So you have to like value. Do we think that
we could reuse this contract at the deadline, do we want to take it
as expiring money or do we want to continue to have a guy like Aaron
Wiggins on the roster. And then Aaron Wiggins is probably on the radar as
a guy that is fighting for a roster spot and he's a solid rotational player.
He's probably a guy that if you've never watched The Thunder where you don't
follow the Thunder, you probably never heard of the guy. But dude is
a legit rotation. But he played in the play in had great minutes.
Tray Man is a tough one. I'd prefer to see a trade man trade,
even if it's for pennies. In the dollar before a cut. He's
got upside, man, It's just he needs some more time to fill out
the game, Jacob, is this the year that we could see and this
might run counter or just like you go up and down the roster, it's
like, no, all these dudes should play. But is this the year
that we could see Mark Dagnold titan and regularize his rotation. We thought it
was gonna come last year down the stretch when they're pushing for the playoffs.
And there was a very contentious moment in a postgame press conference where it may
have been the game these other two guys might remember better a game late in
the season where they lost at home to Charlotte and PJ. Washington went for
like forty five or something ridiculous and the Thunder just played no defense, and
people were very upset that Dagneld played like twelve guys that night, and he
said, Hey, whether we're in playing contention or not, we're going through
our process and we're giving guys opportunities, and this isn't the play and isn't
the destination, right, and we got to figure out what we've got on
this roster and give guys opportunities It's not gonna shock me at all when they
do that again. Like will it be a little more regular, Yes,
but I don't think it's gonna be one of these. We've got nine to
ten guys they play every night, and then maybe for a week we're going
to rotate somebody else in just to give them an opportunity. Like thunder season
opens on what the twenty fifth. By two weeks into the season, if
we haven't seen all fifteen guys and a two way guy get significant run,
I'll be shocked. That's just the way this franchise operates. They're gonna give
everyone their chance and let them prove it, especially with how young they are
and early. They like to get the rookies and young guys minutes before the
G League show case starts, and they send those guys down, so it's
like a get your minutes, now, send you the G League. And
they almost send guys that are third fourth year players at the G League too,
and then another group gets an opportunity while those guys are down, and
it just I agree, Jacob, I think it's gonna be the by committee
approach once again. So if you were forced to choose, and I am
forcing you to choose what would the top ten rotation for this team look like?
And it's sort of as a guid. I feel like they do have
nine locks where if you look at Josh Giddy, Sga, Lou Dort,
Jay Dubbed Chet Home, Grin Ushman, Jang, Ken Rich Williams, Jay
will and then I have Isaiah Joe is a lock just because because of the
shooting. So if we're just like the top ten that you think you're going
to see the most this year, would those nine be in it? Do
you think there's like should we be displayed like it's someone more of a question
mark that's from that group? I'd remember Jang and add mitchege. Oh,
that's a good see that. That's where that's so resting because like does Pokuga
in there? Well, there's I did leave off one spots. There's like
a ten spot to give out like we could have Nick, we could have
and Jang in the rotations like that if you had Pokus just out of the
picture. I left before the like before the ankle injury news, And what
do you do with number ten? Overall? Pick Cason Wallace Aaron Wiggins played
like seventy four games for this team last year and was good. What it's
a good problem to have. I don't know what the top ten look like
on the starting five, and then like if you forced me to pick,
I would go Mitchech, Jay will Poku, Isaiah Joe ken Rich Williams.
Yes, I don't. I think. I don't think there's a combination of
players you could spit out unless you were including like Jr. E in it,
like always making the final roster. He's gonna be in it that I
would be. It's going to be in their dad gunning. Yeah, we're
about Victor Oladipo's returning from injury early. Is this is related to the roth?
Is there like a chance that we see lou Dort's role like diminish a
little bit on this team based on how it's built and how I don't know
what the kindest way to put it is, like how damaging he can be
at times on the offensive end. Answer is yes it should and yes it
will. Okay, he we did this activity in our podcast the other day.
Lou Dort last season, I'm pulling it up now, took eleven point
eight shots per game. That's down from fourteen shots per game the previous year,
he's got to be subtend This year just has to be. I try
to remember you guys saying, Matt that is low. He's like the second
percentile and finishing at the rim. It's bad. He shot like forty percent
at the rim or like it was high. It's it's it's a it's a
problem. He's got a race shot quality and I think catching shoot and rhythm
will be key. He's still very very much especially when he hits one.
He'll catch the ball eight feet outside the line, take a dribble, pull
up. It's like I could live without that. You know, we're not
whenever you're cutting from twelve to ten shots. It's not like don't be aggressive
or like if you have a lane, don't take it. It's just like
cut the fat hone in exactly. And as Thunder fans watched FIBA obviously,
as as many bands did, and I think that role that Ludwort played again,
I don't have those stats pulled up in front of me, but the
role that Lou played for the Canadian team, I think it's it's kind of
the epitome of what we would like to see moving forwards. This Thunder team.
It's such a challenging question because the defensive impact is absolutely undeniable. He
guarded Paulo Bank Carol for this team last year. The Dude six three.
I mean, there was that game against the Clippers late in the season where
Kauhi couldn't even get a shot off at the buzzer because he got put in
the dorture chamber. Like, I think I remember clipping that play because I
just watch again. I was like, this isn't fucking real. Yeah,
it's insane. I mean, there's the super famous one of him checking Lebron
at the end of the game and doing like the crazy arms and forcing a
Lebron miss. Like, the defensive impact cannot be understated, but how much
is it taking away when you have him on the offensive end? And there
has to be a balance that I don't think they will bench him, And
there was a game last year where he played off the bench and it was
a pretty fascinating game. But what happens if one of these other guys just
make what happens when usman makes the leap that's the name. Yep, that's
right, Jacob. I appreciate the crazing man. Do you want to slide
everybody down and let Dub play the three instead of the four and put us
in at the four. What happens when our Lord and Savior Lexey Pokahevski comes
back from this ankle injury and we're ready for the thin Towers in the starting
lineup? Is lu Dorf the one that steps out then, so there will
be a role change for Lou. I feel very confident in that I sweted
our discord. I can't even remember they were saying the Thunder should trade for
player X and playing with poku chat homere gonna call them the Holy Affinity,
And I can't remember who the player was. I wish I could. I
was gonna say bull balls. It might have been. Yeah, ho Afinity,
that's a T shirt to happen. I'll get that tattooed on my chest.
Yeah, I mean yeah, I'll get that tattooed in my forehead.
If they just trade for Kevin Durant decides to like go back to his roots
and play the Holy Affinity with that. So I did not say this.
We're reaching the out of the podcast, which means we are we are already
in the cookie cutter portion of the podcast, and we just went through one
of them. Could I get one lineup beginning with Taylor from each of you's
weirdo conventional out there. Maybe they won't try it, but should line up
you would like to see. You might already spoil your I have it off
the top of my head. I am ready, Dan, I'm going Shay,
Josh Giddy, us Monjang poku chat. We're calling the long boy lineup.
I'm here for it. Nick, what do you have? I'm gonna
go, Shay dub Dort, Cason, Wallace, King Rich Williams. Really
you really lack size, but those dudes will absolutely get after it. Like
Josh Giddy's your sinner at that point, I love that never will happen to
you to your original point, didn't have to be a real lineup, but
that would be incredible. So we're not going realistic here. It doesn't have
to be realistic. Okay, okay, my crazy thing it was day.
Don't like these could be realistic. It could in theory. Lue Dort,
got Jacob lu Dort, Cason, Wallace, two Way Guy, Keyante Johnson,
ken Rich, Williams, chet homegrin the We're coming to beat the shit
out of your lineup, I dig it. Yeah, there's like so many
good combinations. I think I'd want to see the Shay plus they would call
them. They're not the like Shaye plus four bigs, Like let's get Poku
Jang, Ken Rick Williams who's played five and chet Home Grin and we'll just
throw them next to say, see what that looks like. That's by my
standards, that's not really that weird. But they could and probably will happen.
Good. So if you guys can alert me on Twitter when it's on
the floor, if that's still operational, i'd be what's what's the name of
the lamp again? Have you have you coined it? No? I don't
have a name. I mean Shay plus Biggs like four, Well, it's
called the fourth center lineup. They've all played center, right, Yeah,
like that? So, Jacob, is there any strength or concerns about this
team are related to the team that we haven't talked about that you think need
to be discussed, Not that I can think of. They have a very
interesting and I think they're the second youngest team in the league coming into this
year, right behind Detroit. Still a lot of people are ready for them
to make the jump. They are still a bunch of babies who are in
the infancy stage of this thing. It's another year of exploration. I think
the only thing we touched on a little bit didn't get super deep into.
People don't know who he is. If you put him in a lineup,
they would guess that he is an accountant for the business down the street.
But Mark dagnal has just been a freaking phenomenal higher if you don't know the
background. He didn't play college ball, ended up making his way to an
assistant coach at the University of Florida. Thunder actually hired him away from Florida
before they brought in Billy Donovan. Dagnalt coach the G League team got bumped
up to on the bench with the Thunder, and then whenever Dagnalt or sorry,
whenever Billy Donovan left and went to Chicago, they upgraded him again.
So they've had their same Presty specifically has had his eyes a Mark Dagnalt for
god the better part of a decade now. And just like they do with
their players, they got their coach in the pipeline and they slowly took the
training wheels off and built him up, and what he's able to squeeze out
of this team has just been phenomenal. I think they have an incredible staff.
I think a lot of the benefits of what we saw last year are
due to his coaching style and what they do. I think he's the kind
of the unsung part of this whole organization moving forward that maybe doesn't get the
credit it deserves. So let's go wrap it fire on two fronts here,
I'll circle to three of you. We'll start with Taylor. They're over under
for this season, he said, at forty four and a half. Are
you taking the over or the under? I think that's a great line that's
been set for the Thunder compared to is good at this there's only like one
or two trees every year where it's like, the hell were they thinking?
Dan, I'm gonna help you out because Taylor needs this, he said rapid
fire. By the way, Taylor, well, if we dive into the
past five years and take the acronym is getting I'm I'm going over Nick over
under, I'm going under. I've I've said from the start, this is
a five hundred team. Jacob, give me the over, dammit. I
will not reveal mine until we actually do the over under podcast, but I'm
sure you three could probably collectively guess, Jacob, how which teams are you
prepared to guarantee are better than the Thunder next season in the West. In
the West, Denver Nuggets, if we're assuming health is kind, the Phoenix
Suns. There's a reason all the other ones there over unders are clumped within
two games. Forty four and a half might be the most popular win total.
By the way, this year, I feel like every single team,
I'd have to go back in the dock and look of the like forty four
and a half. Forty four and a half, Yeah, it's crazy.
Those two are the ones that I would say for sure. I think all
of the rest of them are kind of fair game. That's not to say
I think the Thunder gonna be third, that's like best, best best case
scenario. But if I have to just guarantee, those might be the only
two I go with. Because what happens with the Pelicans and Zion, The
Lakers are old. San Antonio is gonna sit weeb late in the season,
probably because they're gonna slow build this thing because they're San Antonio. Houston is
Houston. Dallas has Kyrie, so he's probably gonna be on news Max every
other game and not actually playing basketball, So we I can only say two.
I think, Nick, how many teams would you? Would you add
any teams to that? I'll throwing Golden State obviously older and could be injured,
but I think they've spread the amount of veterans they have that can really
impact winning and have done this before. Like, even if Steph gets hurt,
you got Chris. If Chris gets hurts, still a good team.
I've got Golden State. So I'm gonna substitute that one. I don't quite
trust Golden State right now. I'm gonna go ahead and go with Sacramento.
Oh I love the continue the Yeah, how they looked plus season they got.
I'm so I'm actually with Jacob. I just have the two teams.
That doesn't mean I think the thunder are gonna finish third. The West is
just so all over the place with Factramento is a good one though, because
a lot of people look at their season and say they got really lucky with
health. They didn't so much get lucky with health as the fact that Domasa
Bonus is just just play and is going to play with like shattered bones that
er, thank you very much. Something with good Zaga centers in the Oklahoma
City Thunder, I don't. I don't know. So is there anything else
we haven't talked to I already asked this to Jacob, really, but Nick
or Teilors, anything else that I just haven't asked you guys that you think
needs to be needs to be covered here. I think as good as Chet
home Grinn will be, I don't think he fixes all of their problems in
the front court immediately. This is a team that's going from no real center.
Like Poku is the size of a center, He's not a center.
Jay Will is a super undersized center, not a real center. Chet is
a real center. But when he struggles, the team will struggle, And
so I think that we should have very high expectations for Chet. I think
it's gonna be awesome, but the same problems we saw last year. You
mentioned, defensive rebounding, paint presence, when Chet's sitting, Chet's hurt,
Chet struggling, that's gonna be tough for the Thunder. Still gonna be an
Achilles who I think Obviously we joke about me and being the Sunshine Pumper on
the podcast. But I do think about, like we've done a lot of
that on this podcast here on Hardwick Knocks, But what happens if the Thunder
don't take it a significant leap and we're talking about Ken Shay and Getty Coaxest
again, That's one thing I'm thinking about and the other is something we haven't
talked a whole lot about. But look, there are a ton of assets.
It doesn't have to be a win now push the button, as Presci
said in the past, right, it doesn't have to be a Yannis or
a Dane Lillard type of trade. Buddy Hilled, We've got the notification from
Shaun's earlier today, Like what if it's a player like that? What if
it's a player like that that the Thunder make a a minor trade four that
improves his team? Right, something to keep in mind, doesn't have to
be a superstar swing for the fences. He just feels weird to trade for
Buddy Heald when you have Isaiah Joe and Lyndy Waters on a two way contracts.
See why not all the shooters around Shay. Guys, this was great.
Thank you so much for spending nearly ninety minutes with this episode, and
of course we did another hour on yours. I would like you to all
promote yourself individually. So Taylor, where can they Where can our listeners find
you? So I have a weird spelling Taylor with any You can find me
at Taylor Underscore p. Fifteen and obviously you can find me on the Uncontested
on Sundays Wednesdays. We're having a ton of fun with it and that would
really appreciate you having a salon Dan Nick, how about yourself yet, Twitter
or X whatever we're calling it at Crane, Twitter, c r AI,
n NBA. I'm with you. I am not adopting the name X,
just like it's always Staples Center. I'm not calling it crypto dot com or
whatever the hell they renamed it to crypts. Somethings do not change afford to
call it crypto dot com anymore. Like I don't know on there, Jacob,
can you let our listeners where they can find you? Yeah? So
I'm on Twitter at Jacob Niffin K and I F F E N. You
can find the podcast any where you download your pods. We're on Facebook,
Twitter, Instagram, YouTube, TikTok so if you're interested in some Thunder coverage
and some poke who love check us out there. You sold you sold us
all, You sold me right there. The link to the podcast will be
in the YouTube and podcast description as well. There are individual Twitter not x
handles and links. Thank you guys so much for coming on, and if
you have not subscribe to the Uncontested please do so already they do. You
guys do a great job over there. You are highly, highly entertaining and
I promise I'm not just blowing smoke because you agree to come on the show.
And as you have look, I'm gonna spam your dms again in the
future. So thank you guys so much for coming on. Thank you Dad, Thanks damn